##VIDEO ID:Nj7-V7LYO7I## e e that's in committee I the October 9th 2024 his only Board of adjustment meeting will now come to order please rise with a pledge of allegiance I pledge algi to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God individ with liy and justice for all this meeting has been advertised in accordance with the open public meetings act roll call please son kiski Beth Laur kii Bill Jara Joan marimer present Mariam babich Lou Valentino present John gerardi here k d presid chman g present number one let me apologize for my voice I woke up this morning and this is what happened um couple of announcements I'm told by PR that there may be some people in the room tonight that are here for the Alexander Avenue Route 38 Canabis sale that item is not on our agenda that is going to be heard in November it'll probably be the only item on the agenda in November another announcement is that 300 South Lenola Road um they had insufficient notice with regard to their uh notice to the 200 foot list so we need a motion to continue that to the next meeting which is November give me date November 13th November 13 I make a motion to Sharon ready second Lou roll call please Bill Jer approve Joan Mortimer approved Lou Valentino approved joh jik approved KY approved chairman G approved so Emily are you in the in the room tonight yes you understand that you'll be unfortunately on the November agenda and that you're probably going to be a relatively quick application we'll put you on before the Cannabis one which that'll take all night Mr chairman does the Cannabis have to R notify i k with that I think they're sending I think they're send application yet application yet not deemed complete so they will re notice or they have to notify not not re notify okay so they will notify okay all right notification yeah their application was incomplete so they have to R notify with a complete application people neighborh yes one other announcement that there are some use variances on the agenda tonight you're entitled to have seven City members we only have six we do have one member that may show up later but in the event that you do not want to take a chance with six votes needing five of those six for your use approval you may uh come to the next meeting also when I call you to the agenda on the agenda you'll let me know what your decision is first item on the agenda 410 Martin Avenue block number 37 lot 1.09 Greg and Renee Buck application pb2 24-7 Zone residence District R A existing youth single family residents propose you single family residence application barrance approval to construct front porch in front yard setback area good morning up you know the drill from the site plan just sit down relax could you raise your right hand please you swear or affirm the testimony you give tonight will be the truth all truth nothing but truth to God me to fill this out so what you need to do now is just give us a little background of what you like to do right okay sure um so basy my wife and I would like to put a front an open front porch on our house uh so I guess we're requesting permission to go into the front yard seac area any of the exhibits that you're going to reference hold them up because we'll look at our package okay okay so uh I guess we'll go so the first couple a B and C are just pictures of the house house okay um so we're talking about adding is if you go to picture e that is uh a porch that was this was built by Bill Caron up on gertown Avenue what piure you looking at oh sorry e I'm sorry okay so picture e okay so uh we're asking Bill to build that same type of porch on ours open just a shed roof with I guess four or five posts on it so um it's just going to be open uh we have a a 4 foot uh on picture any of the house pictures ABC there's a a 4X two a small porch there so it'll kind of replace that and come out like four more feet and be 34 ft across okay um so so that's what have for each it'll look it'll look like that where uh bill so what he did with this house here they put the flat roof on and then he said you know you can sit back and look okay we need an A so she said he'll do take the same steps with ours I'll put the flat roof on and then we'll see well do we extend since we have a A's already on the house will he build you know one out or maybe add another one but he said we got to put the flat roof there and then we'll step back and take a look at it um maybe so if you look at picture F so that's a house that's uh one house away from us it's kind of got the flat shed rof on it so it exists that type of style porch exists in the neighborhood um so that's basically what we're asking F to put on a simple open porch that you know you can look right through it from the side what is the purpose of picture F picture F was just to show at at the last meeting uh one of the board members recommended he looked it up on Google he you know you have that same style shed roof right down the street from it's show the flat roof just showing the flat roof without an egg without an egg so it was recommended that I include that picture in the package to see that like that style of uh fall torch exists in the block that's the only purpose for so you're going to flat roof yeah we're going to go flat and like uh he may have an A he may have an A but once flat roof on first and then they're going to look at it and see whether they like it or not okay and see like I guess then they could put an A or or may not put yeah at the last meeting the suggestion was if you look at C we have a lot of A's keep the style of the house so once we get the flat on you know Bill said well we'll look at it you know who needed to keep that style and we'll just carry an a right probably like just to the other one right over the front door on on the the the shev Greg you have an attachment 15 yes you want to read that into the record please sure I thought very well done by you know what I mean I have a copy you can have mine if you get it yeah that's okay uh the addition of the proposed fund porch will bring substantial benefits to our property as well as the Martin Avenue Community aside from Aesthetics the addition of the porch will create a space for our family to more easily connect with our neighbors which in turn strengthen TI within Community will Al allow our family to comfortably spend more time Street facing which further benefits the community be be helping to DET crime improve the public safety of the area and the general welfare of others the proposed addition will not in any way impair the public health and comfort of the nearby homes it will will be Tastefully designed and built by a qualified contractor who is most familiar with attaining the proper permits along the way Greg we're going to hire you to do the public statements for a lot of people for the positive and negative criteria you had to hire my wife CU she did that I would definitely tell that very well done brother okay understanding what Greg has presented do the board members have any questions before I go to the engineering report very pretty thank you great yes Mr chairman thank you uh first I would like to ask the applic could explain your neighborhood you're trying to exceed the setback right what about the rest of your neighborhood could just give us an idea of what the rest of the neighborhood is doing do they have porches that extend the houses exceed are some in front of yours or most of them behind yours just give us an IDE yeah from what I found in our tax block and lot there are there are none that exceed that I know it doesn't count but just outside the block there's a couple that are like 11et but in our general area no I looked uh based on how well Google measurements are you know I think up to my neighbor's houses and measure but uh I don't think anyone is at inside the the setback do most of the homes in your neighborhood have front porches of some uh yeah yes a lot of them have yes they do have front porches Mr chairman this one's maybe our one of our more simple applications to even to bulk variants uh we have a front porch obviously extending into the setback our ordinance 2 uh 20513 C1 requires it a front yard of 35 ft currently the house is almost 40t I'm just going to 39.8 one ft they're putting an 8ot extension just doing the math uh it's not identified on the plan submitted but we would be at 31.8 one ft that would be the variance uh from 35 to 31.8 knowing construction and gutters and I would recommend that the board maybe consider 31 ft to allow a little deviation uh rather than 31.8 so if if the board's so inclined to go that sounds like a good idea um okay understanding the engineers report any questions comments concerns from the board okay we going to open up the application to the general public is there anyone in the general public who would like to speak for or against this application please step forward Greg I'm going to ask you to sit step back in the audience sure raise your right hand please you swear or affirm the testimony give will be the truth all truth something but truth gu your name please sir Scott Malloy say it again Scott Malloy m i l l o y m i l l l o y o y SC we you like to sit down okay thank okay back I'm sorry I got it okay real quick I think that porches make good neighbors so I got to be honest with you adding porches to neighborhoods especially the Maple Shade area is a fantastic idea and I hope you guys approve it all right all right thank you Scott thank you John one thing that was discussed at site plan was as we're moving forward that we don't want to see them enclos this so if there could be a condition on the approval that the porch stays open we could have railings and so forth but we can't start closing in front porches like we see in some neighborhoods it kind of step back please I thought I see Chuck here uh he's been busy I think he's getting ready for his daughter's wedding so we so you heard what our engineer said you're okay with that yes absolutely so any motion of approval tonight would carry the condition that the front porch would stay open what do you mean by open is is screening you mean just by solid wall or by screening W by solid wall Windows right screen railings okay no no I'm sorry screening is okay that would be up to the board yes I would say no screen just the railing is fine yeah we're not even going to put a rail AG that yeah we're not even going to screen it just posts post yeah John the house in German Town looks great yeah and they don't have rails either they do okay I'm going to ask if there's anyone else in the general public who would like to speak for or against this motion application seeing no other takers I'm going to close the public portion of the meeting come back to board and ask them if they have a vote in mind or a motion I make a motion to approve with the one stipulation not to oppose the porch motion L Valentino seconded I'll second it roll call please Bill J approved Jo Mortimer approved Lou Valentino approved John jik approved Ken approved chairman G approved Greg here is a 45 day right of uh challenge so if you do anything in the first 4 days you're doing so at your own risk cor okay you can probably look at the number of people that spoke against you and you can decide what you want to do within 45 days right and there's a six-month rule within which you have to begin otherwise you got to appear back before the board okay okay good luck thank you very much for your time thank you like have some pictures back that you like to of okay we're going to skip to item e on the agenda 30 spru Avenue block 91 Lot 8 William Kinsey application zba 24 -9 Zone residential district 2 R2 existing new single family residents propos use duplex application certification on pre pre-existing non-confirming duplex good evening Ellen McDonald I represent Bill Kinsey Bill Kinsey is appearing by Zoom you can hear us Bill yes I can great Robert you want to swear some people in yes who is this gentleman this is Chuck Thomas raise your right hand sure Mr Kinsey can you hear me yes I can sir raise your right hand please both you swear or affirm the testony you give will be the truth whole truth nothing but truth up you got I do I so I do swear that okay okay thank you um and I appreciate your Indulgence in allowing Mr Kinsey to appreciate uh to appear by Zoom he's in Colorado so it's a lot easier for him to to to participate this way than to uh fly back here um Mr Kinsey do you own the property at 30 South Spruce Avenue in maple state I do and when did you purchase that property I'm about 1993 all right and when you purchased the property was it a one family residence or a two Family Residence it was a two Family Residence duplex it was the carriage house to The Farmhouse next door and according to the people there it was built as a duplex for the stable master and his wife and two Hired Hands okay it has been a duplex since its Inception and since the time that you've owned it has it always been used as a duplex yes it has and there has always been a tenant in there okay so at one point in time you occupied the the property and then you had a tenant as well while I bought it there was a tenant in the upstairs okay I liveed in the downstairs okay um and so until this day it's always been a duplex is that right absolutely nothing but okay that is all the questions I have for Mr Kinsey okay okay so um as a legal issue um this property is in the R2 Zone and in 1993 when Mr Kinsey purchased the property it was a legal duplex because duplexes were permitted in the R2 zone until 2006 when the township passed an ordinance saying that uh in the R2 Zone duplexes were no longer permitted uses that only single family residences uh were permitted uh however under the law as we've been through before with other applications here um when there is a a legal uh use and the ordinance changes that use remains legal uh forever and ever you can not take away someone's right to use the property in the way that was legal just by changing the ordinance so what we're asking for is a resolution from the board determining as such that it is still a legal use because Mr Kinsey is seeking to sell the property which is why Mr Thomas is here everyone knows Chuck Thomas um and uh as a matter for the buyer the buyer needs to have comfort that the township sees this as a legal duplex and the Township's right records do not reflect it that way as of this date okay and I'm going to put something on the record that I did at site plan and that is uh the board uh after receiving a number of properties that claimed that they were duplexes but did not have a resolution uh developed a guideline for applicants to look at to see if when reading it they could determine that they had a pre-existing 9 form use that guy line said that uh zoning occurred somewhere in 1970 in 1993 is well after that but you had a prior uh application that came before the board some number of months ago and it was uh proven by you that the R2 Zone uh had the permission for duplexes up to 2006 correct so we as a board determined that we were going to revise our guidelines to reflect that for the R2 Zone we haven't done that yet it's in the process okay so you're here be uh I'm just wondering and this is a question not for you but for Mr Kingsbury once the uh guidelines are developed and the R2 exception is placed in there do applicants need to pay for their escros and various fees to appear before the board or is that an administrative thing using the guidelines that the uh govering officer can determine I would say they still have to come in front of the board uh for two reasons one is they would want a written resolution from the board uh making it official so they can pass it on to the next buyer and any property owner who's claiming a duplex use would want that and they also have to prove to the board that they do qualify under the guidelines so so I would say yes they would have to come in front of the board to legitimize it okay with that piece of Education being done for me and the board I want to ask the uh board members do they have any questions of this application comments concerns okay Mr kingsburry in that it is not something that the board is going to p a variance on it is just something that we're going to to uh agree that it did exist and does exist as a pre-existing nonperforming useth we do need a motion but do I need to open it up to the general public yes because there might be somebody who says he's not telling the truth they've lived there for 100 years and it was never used as a duplex okay so that hypothetical person has to be given their opportunity okay I'm sure uh the lawyer agrees with me don't you Al absolutely why does that person have the hypothetical because I don't know if they exist at this point okay understanding that I am opening up the application to the general public is there anybody in the general public who would like to speak for or against this application see seeing none the public portion of the meeting is now closed I have a question is this the house yes I actually have a series of uh photographs I have one set of color and uh seven copies for the board if you would like to see the floor plan to show that it's always been a duplex yeah I I I just needed to know is there this is like one apartment this is the other apartment upstairs or yes just answer that question because we're going to move quickly very quickly uh this is the front of the house and this is the floor plan showing a first floor and a second floor View and the second floor has never been accessible from the first floor a set of stairs in the house it's always been accessible from the outside of the house uh for I believe the property was built back in the very early 1920s or maybe even the teens uh I could show you a color photograph if you'd like of the ask you to very quick lay that there okay that just shows the extra you have any extra copies that that because I'd like to do I'd be happy to give you for a resolution I would certainly you like the color photos can you circulate the SS SS sure I'll give you yeah give it to me I have multiple copies so everyone can have a copy if you'd like to pass on one other thing uh there has been a question as to whether there's adequate parking uh due to the code requiring X number of parking spots per unit because the board is just indicating that it is a pre-existing use there's no conditions we can put on that motion it is just a strict motion to to indicate whether we believe it's a pre-existing nonconform use correct uh again just just to alleviate that the documents I'm sending out I have a uh okay I just wanted to let you know what's what're going forward very good thank you okay do you have uh no I don't have can you deliver this last copy to our Engineers yeah yeah this I thought Mr Kingsbury wanted to color copy do you want me to uh okay understand Che thank you the presentation made made by councelor McDow and understanding nobody spoke in the general public what we need now is a motion that motion to approve that this property pre-existed as a duplex prior to the Zone code I'll make that motion motion Mr Z seconded by I'll second bill okay roll call please will J Jo Mortimer approved Lou Valentino approved John jard approved Karen R approved John G approved fantastic thank you so much appreciate your again your collaboration thank you Bill good job all right thank you should I go now yes good you win all right Ellen Chuck has a some information for you that just occurred to me okay very good thanks is you all right bye bye thank you we have two remaining applications on the agenda I would like to have a raise of hands that tells me that tells me who in the general public are here because of the one ,000 East Park Avenue application okay I'm going to take that application first in that there are members of the general public and the length of the next two applications is quite large so therefore I'm going to try to get them home as soon as possible 1,000 East Park Avenue block 77 Lots 2 and six Stone Core Group application number zba 24-6 Zone Business Development existing use corporate headquarters office of manufacturing facility propos use new 7,700 Square ft building addition to existing F facility and modifications in existing landscape buffering application D1 use and preliminary of final site plan approval with variances and vs first thing I would like to let you know as I indicated at the beginning of the meeting we only have six voting members here this is a used variance you're entitled to seven people sitting on the board you need five of the six votes for an approval that's fine well we're going to proceed if we think there's an issue we may ask that um be adjourn and had the abent member listen to the tape and have them come back but right now we're willing to proceed okay could you move that microphone pleas can you can you hear me now yeah Alan Fox karton Scotch appearing on behalf of the applicants down Court um yes we understand uh we're willing to proceed um this is for 1,000 Park Avenue Maple Shade loock 77 Lot 2 and six the application is for use variant and preliminary and final site plan with bulk variances um I have with me tonight um some witnesses Alan I'm going to ask you to speak up a little bit louder please okay sure I'll bring you even closer I have with me tonight um representative of the applicant Mr Jeffrey bean I have a uh a licensed architect I have a licensed landscape architect and I have a professional planner did you want to have them all swor in at one time or have them each separately Mr kingsberry the question is everybody at one time or one let's see we can do them all at one time okay all here all please write a name on the yes everyone raise your right hand you swear our affirm the testimony you give tonight be the truth all truth nothing but truth s for got I do let me get everybody's name Mark remson R MSA oh okay I know you PP right you got it and and licensed landscape architect Jeff Bean Jeff Bean b a m b a yes and I'm with st okay Scott whole team hu l t say the last name again whole team hu l t e e n I'm the acoustical consultant okay Lisa Wright yeah please Lis Lisa Lisa Lisa Lisa right right W like the right Brothers correct okay okay you're professor question is architect architect do you have business cards yes I do Bob in my supplement I have everybody's name and address emails okay on my notes D Travis North Travis is my middle name first name is Daniel first initial is D like in D is in Daniel okay Tris Li last name oh North I know okay yes okay okay Mr chairman do I give that to yeah here you go so I have Mark Jeff Scott Lisa and Daniel yeah okay are you going to use an easel for any of your exhibits yes okay yes so my first wisness is Mr Bean he he'll be the representative of the applicant and Jeff why don't you put your name on the record uh my name is Jeff bean and what is your position my my position is VP of operations for stonehart right um and the applicant is Stone core Stone core is an affiliate with stonehart being the operator and occupant of the building correct correct and you you're the VP of operation how how long have you worked at stonehart I've been at stonehart for 37 years and what is your educational background move that microphone closure sorry please and your educational background um a chemical engineer by by schooling um explain to the board what does ston hard do um we uh produce flooring materials so we take um raw materials into our building we blend them and then package them in various uh different packaging Arrangements excuse me yes uh completeness do we need to deem this application complete there are a number of items that they've requested waivers for and a few items that I would suggest W score but we have to go through completeness first okay you want me to have the experts come in and do that or just have it during their test I think well you can go through your application and ask for the waivers when it's appropriate right me I can run through Mr kingry if you want okay what are the waivers that they need regarding completeness the afcan has requested several waivers and I'll run through them very quickly on our completeness list uh item one was just a certification your engineer has indicated they would be doing that item two is regarding any covenants easements given what's out at the site before you go over them are they listed in your reports I'm sorry yes sir it's the page two of our October 2nd 2024 report and it's it's item ran numeral 2 submission information okay and map sh it as a guid land line for anything that's submitted I want to make sure the applicant has that yes you he friend Roman Roman two submission information do you have a copy of that so you can yeah I'm trying to find my I have it I put it we have okay let's go over them one at a time and see what we can do about it so item number three was the certification signature block obviously you're going to do that correct that's not a problem we agre that covenants running with the land knowing that there's the industrial park there's a shared private road are there any issues out there that or something that you can provide to us or a statement regarding the fact that there are none that exist on these properties um I have a I can send you a title report you could provide that to us okay great um that was item four item nine was really regarding uh location of streams and so forth within 500 feet we really hold very few people uh people's feet to the fire on that one they have requested a waiver on that and that's something that I would recommend uh 10 was also a requested waiver that they provide o easements right of ways Paving within 100 ft um that's not necessary for this application we need to focus on one area so that's a waiver I would also support item 11 I believe that you've identified the lot the lot lines or you're looking for a waiver of number 11 lot lines block and lot numbers within 200 feet I know you provided us with a 200 foot list but the requirements are that it's shown on the plan yeah we we can do that you can do that okay uh 14 the applicants requested a waiver and that was for building elevations and renderings but I believe you have some building elevations and renderings you're going to present to us this evening correct yes we have them tonight so a waiver really would not be necessary for item 14 it was requested item 15 was utilities location of all utilities I only asked if the utilities where the addition is going to be shown I'm sorry number 19 I'm sorry sorry thank we we'll do number 19 yes okay uh just obviously we W only building on top of utilities Etc they to be relocated we would do that 28 uh protective evidence we just spoke to that um 32 detailed cost estimate that comes at the end I'm not sure why it's in a completeness list I would recommend a waiver of that at this time but when the application goes through and gets should it get approved that's when they would have to provide that detailed information which one was that uh number 32 okay is a detailed cost estimates so if you're waving it but they later have to produce it are you we're waving it for completeness there are items and I'll say this to the board although we're waving it for completeness the applicant is going to agree to provide certain items to us so we can complete the application and make sure everything is in order so 33 was uh written approvals from local County state they're always contingent upon the approval anyway we always make something subject to outside agencies so uh with that they would have to provide that regardless it's going to be in our letter it's checklist item not sure how they can provide us those things at at this time it's just a checklist item and I would recommend a waiver but it will be a requirement in the in the letter as we go further on was that 33 that was 33 yes okay and what are you saying they they do need a waiver or they don't uh they will be making this submission it's a requirement it's an outside agency approvals so if they're requesting it at this time yes it would be a waiver because they do not have those approvals at this time okay 34 is a phase one environmental site assessment um typically that would be submitted uh are you asking for a waiver of that yes this is just the uh we're just basically building on top of the existing parking lot we don't see any disturbance for any that would require for environmental assessment sure are there any environmental issues on the site are there any environmental issues Jeff that have been dealt with in the past U any cleanups no you have no open cases with the D no open cases with the D okay Mr J that could be we construction time frame they're asking for a waiver but we typically will ask that during the course of the meeting how so again a waiver at this time but we'll hear a testimony on that uh 37 the stormw management report they have requested a waiver of that and you'll see there's a lot of bold print after that I did speak with the afans engineer uh I do recommend the waiver for the stormwood report however under the state law any private agency that owns a storm water basin or a storm water facility is required to provide annual reports so we've asked for an onm manual be submitted and that these annual reports be submitted to Maple Shade stormw coordinator that's later in the letter also right so we it could be a condition of the approval but we'll wave it for submission okay so so with that there are none of these items where I would say I would not recommend a waiver of and the Aion has agreed to provide uh the other items so you would not recommend a waiver for completeness no uh well the waivers all the items that are requested to be waivers I recommend the application be deemed complete yes Grant all those waivers okay that's just by way of clarification there are some things that he's going to have to submit but this is just waivers for hearing this particular application right correct if it proceeds further then it's not it's nothing we would submit before we heard something will come after but we just went to board to deem the application complete okay it's not uncommon that the waiver would be for the submission but they agree to it in in the testimony okay Mr kingsb do we need a motion for that for complet yeah let's you can give a motion to I had a question go question um did I hear that you're associated with stonard yes yes okay now under an environmental assessment you were asked if there was any ever a clean up for anything my question to you is was there ever a fire uh yes yes we had a we had a fire in one of our portable very large one I was out there je speak into the mic yeah yes yes we did have a fire in one of our our portable vessels okay yes I just want that to go on to the record there was a fire very large fire Jeff did that fire create any hazardous um material being spilled into the ground or was it contained on the concrete it was fully contained and did not create any hazardous material spills no thank you okay you need a motion to Grant or defer the waivers uh as recommended by your board engineer okay we need a motion to that effect I'll make a motion to motion Ranch this is second I'll second Val voice I know do you roll call please it was Caren and yeah I got Bill jera approve Joan Mortimer approved Lou Valentino approved Jo jard approved K approved J G approved thank you okay very good thank you with that a little detour now you're ready okay good so Jeff um stoneart has uh occupied this facility as its headquarters for for how long uh for over 60 years I'm sorry for doing this to you you keep turning towards Jeff so move the microphone over there going to get there anyway okay so for 60 years it's been operating there and the IT fronts Loop Avenue Loop Loop Drive correct yes and Loop Drive is a private road that yes it is yeah and most of the facilities that front Loop Drive were also industrial use correct so when you moved in that was considered like an industrial area or Industrial Park yes um and stonehart it uses that the part of the building would be for its offices for its manufacturing facility and for warehousing the um the addition the whole building your C no what you're currently using current we currently have office space in there um and uh manufacturing space and the purpose of the expansion would be to um make it more efficient for your manufacturing process provide additional warehousing space yeah no that's correct it's it's really an extension of our manufacturing area um so that we can have a better flow for our plant it's ends up being safer for our employees um and just allows us to um add better equipment um for our employees to work with as well right and currently uh stoneheart has a second facility in Sher Hill for distribution that is correct so can you explain to the board how the products that are manufactured here in Maple Shade moved over to the Cher Hill facility right um generally what all all we do in in the Maple Shade manufacturing area is is manufacture the products um we store very little materials there um it's a it's three or four days worth of raw materials um the rest of the raw materials are stored in Cherry Hill when we manufacture finished product it is transferred to Cherry Hill so we have our shuttle truck which is not a a large truck it's a it's a box truck it goes back and forth between Cherry Hill and Maple Shade taking finished goods to Cherry Hill and bringing raw materials back to Maple Shade what roads do does that truck use Route 73 Route 73 what raw materials do you store there pardon me what kind of raw materials they're all they could be uh liquid um resins and curing agents or or um uh fillers of Sands Aggregates things like that Sor what was that the last part fillers fillers fillers it's Aggregates or or fine Sands that we put into the mix pigments are are also part of it so just make those trucks ever use the residential streets to they do not okay and to make it clear your primary your product is an epoxy or your system that does walls and flooring system most mostly floor systems yeah and we do both epoxy and urethane forem it's mostly for commercial customers commercial and Industrial industrial customers um and so how often would would these uh trucks move between Maple Shade and and Cherry Hill they move it would probably be per shift three times somewhere in that neighborhood per day so three runs per shift and there's two shift operation beginning hour and the ending hour that that truck would leave or come back to the facility the the truck would be it would be in the I'll say 630 time frame would be the first run and it and the last run will be somewhere around 9:30ish depending on 6:30 a.m. 9:30 p.m. would be that shut TR shuttling back and forth but only using Route 73 correct out your private road on the route 73 correct Loop Road and how many days would that be how many days a week we're we're five five uh days a week um two shifts and very occasionally we work a Saturday morning very occasionally and the normal hours of operation at the maple shave facility um our shift our shift starts at 6 people are arriving you know 15 20 minutes maybe half hour before that so 5:30 to say 11:00 and that would be Monday through Friday that is correct and what about on Saturdays again if if if we're working Saturday which is has been rare it would be 6:00 a.m. to noon somewhere in that neighborhood and so after noon there wouldn't be a lot of traffic a lot of people no truck M and how about Sundays um basically I Won't Say Never but extremely rare that we will work a Sunday and the proposed expansion is for a 7,770 ft addition in the northern part of the building you you explain it's going to help make the facility more efficient in its operation and provide some additional warehousing space correct now um will the addition cause any increase in the truck traffic no no not at all will the addition cause any increase in the number of employees we are not increasing our our staffing so let's talk about the number of employees so um right now we disclose that there um technically areund um 11 employees but since covid the nature of the operation has changed and you have more people working remote or hybrid situation that's true U not certainly not in manufacturing that's impossible to work remotely right but other people in all of the other uh departments within the building um there's a hybrid work schedule now and um it's it's generally there's generally not a lot of people in the building now you did a survey over the summer yes and you counted the number of spaces that are actually being used by employees so what was the result of that survey we did um currently we have on on the plan um 128 parking spots 112 yeah no 128 currently with the proposed addition we would have 112 correct um the most cars that we parked that we counted um on any day was 95 um and the and the average is around 70 eight for um for the day are there parking stalls for all the anticipated cars yes absolutely do they park on the street at all um there is there has been some parking on the street yes on the street we you mean Loop Drive no not on Loop Drive there's no parking Loop no parking Loop so we have on we have the parking space over it's lot two a lot a ex was it lot two there is um I think we have 75 spaces over there right on lot two and lot six we have 37 spaces not sure what lot two is that you're referring to around the building encompassing the building we have um I believe it's whatever 30 there's 37 spots in the lot um at closest to Route 73 the rest of the spots uh are around the building so my question is on a Pine Avenue or currently there are some people parking on Pine Avenue um but there are spaces for them and does anyone Park any complaint about that I've never heard a complaint about that and do employees Park on Park Avenue no no um so they don't park in park yeah they do Park on Pine there was some parking on Pine but there's no complaints not that I'm aware of it ever no why do they park in the street if you have all those parking Stones it's a little bit closer to where their office is okay so more convenient for the employee but and your your any visitors would park over on the visitor spaces on Luke drive that's correct do you see a need for um any will the will the expansion cause any pedestrian traffic on Park Avenue no there'll be no change would you see a need to put um additional sidewalk on Park Avenue if we're not going to create any additional pedestrian traffic I I don't see a need for that and how about on Pine Street do you do you see any increase in the pedestrian traffic on on Pine no do you think there's a need for any um sidewalks be added on Pine Mr chairman if I could we're talking a lot about the facility and we don't have we have an easel I'm hoping you have a site plan your landscape architect should maybe just share that so the board understands sure where the parking is and maybe someone can point to where they're lot two lot six okay I drove by the property about several times a day so I was me going through what you were saying right but I think the easil would be better thank you I'm sorry to interrupt I just think we be that's okay good Interruption bring us now we do have one member in the general public who's interested so if you could C that a little bit and although that's pretty hard to see from that dist but at least perhaps when you point they'll get an idea so we we now show what is uh the overall site plan label as c-301 Robert do you want this to page five of 14 that's A1 okay excuse me A1 well the hall site plan will be a one this is page five of the site plan yes we can make this A1 it's fine yeah let's make it A1 and now you're really going to be challenged now because you're going to be turning that way and not speaking it to the mic I I I'll work you can take the mic with you if you like is said Jeff can you just point out to the uh board where the facility is located and where the proposed expansion is going to be and yeah speak up because you don't have it like yes this is the proposed expansion um it is occupying what is currently a parking area for us um this is all the facility the parking spaces surround the building and there's the large lot that's out front here that's border 73 by the parking spaces you mean the parking stalls stalls yeah yeah and you mentioned there's there's no you can point out where um Park Avenue there's no there's no employee parking over there Park Avenue no there's nothing there and this is Pine where we do have some parking that does take place along that se District okay but right now there with this expansion there's no plans to expand the number of employees who are working at at the facility that's that's correct and based upon your uh survey over the summer when you said that you think it averages about 76 employees 788 uh you feel that you have adequate number of parking spaces to handle the people who are actually coming to the office and using the parking yes those people now working remote do you see that as the future yes yeah that's the future a reversal that would challenge the number of stols no um that's reality now you you can't hire people in the lot of positions that aren't hybrid they want to work from home so except for manufacturing which so that's generally for this Jeff you know what's going on with the facility um the expansion um will not generate any additional truck traffic we don't anticipate any additional employees um we feel that based upon our survey that the current parking using the auxiliary lot on lot two and the surrounding would be sufficient for um satisfy the your your parking requirements um if this boards had any questions about the operation I'm going to then bring up my um architect to explain I just have one question and when looking at the building today on the Park Avenue side uh the area around the windows the siding is peeling off you got a plan for that yes okay and the plan is to get that painted it's it's been that way for a little while is that a near-term plan yes okay and while you're here with respect to the Landscaping because it was a question in Fred's Report with the new Landscaping we're agreeing to uh uh put in landscape irrigation to uh help maintain the new landscape in the new buffer yes and we'll also have a landscape contractor to do the uh routine maintenance the landscape we currently do yes so just to be clear you're going to put in an irrigation system we do have it for uh a number of the the grass areas around the facility already we will extend it into the into the new uh the new buffer zone the new buffer zone okay does anybody have any questions about sure forgive me if you already said this but your voice through the microphone is very muffled from over here did what is going in that 7700 Square ft space this is an expansion of stonehart it's going to be for their manufacturing facility additional space for warehousing so it's going to it's going to give them more room materials it it'll it's more for the um it it allows us to move some of our manufacturing equipment into that space to open up more floor space for our our employees to move around uh more safely right we we have a number materials from where they are now to this new facility um there will be some raw material storage in that facility yes in that in that addition this is right on Park Avenue is it right on Park Avenue yes it's on P is it it's on Park je Jeff will there be employees in that area or is this area solely for oh no there will be there will be employees yes yes and one other thing um sure explore what she was going so you're I'm a chemist I can't help myself everything here is flammable just we actually do not uh we do not operate a a what what is called a class one divum facility so we do not have a lot of flammables we have a very small U flammable room where we store U mostly 5 gallon Pals but we have a few Drums of flammable material that's in a that's in a special room um otherwise nothing in in the facility is flammable except for that material and you've been in business there 60 years yes but Joanne didn't mention a fire what caused the fire what caused the the um what we had it it was an interesting if if if you're a chemist um it may it's even a little over my head but um we had a raw material that we were um receiving uh on a regular basis from A supplier um that raw material specification changed um and it actually caused the it it homopolymerized so it polymerized by itself without a catalyst um due to the size of the particle um and then that heated up in the vessel and and caused the fire in the vessel we have since changed our supplier and from the new supplier we are um fully testing the material to ensure that we won't have that happen again and did I hear you say you had a flammable room we do have a very small flammable room yes does that room house is it large enough to house all of the material that you think could ignite yes absolutely yes so of all the materials that you use in your process those that are most flammable are in that room absolutely yeah they have to be yes how is that room constructed what makes it a flam it it it is um intrinsically safe all of the um um fixtures in that room um and it has um blowout doors on the front um so that's and it has a anti-static floor system so can't we can't generate any Sparks out doors go external or they do they go external out to Loop Road out to the area where where the expansion is now going no out out front towards Loop Road towards Route 73 okay um is there fire suppression Jeff there is absolutely fire suppression in there everything all of the containers are grounded um as as they need to be okay uh blue you you good good Fred asked us to comment with the uh whether the expansion is going to cause any air emission issues can you address that uh will be nothing different than there currently is um under our our air per our New Jersey air permit uh so there's no real there's no change to our operation um at this point in time it's just additional space for us to spread out and and you know be be safer really we have a lot of fork Fork traffic and it we need more room to do that safely and so the expansion is actually going to improve the safety inside the manufacturing so any more questions about the operation yeah one question um I know expansion costs money and space costs money um the reason for your expansion expansion excuse me you you brought out safety for your employees was there an OSHA incident that caused this a safety violation did somebody get hurt which is causing to you to make this expansion and make it no there was just something there was no OSHA incident or or or anybody getting hurt um to do that we've we've actually in the last year really been looking at how our operation is laid out and how do we make it more efficient okay right and and it it all falls into that so it's a proactive expansion absolutely right I mean I I own a small a very small business and my space is very tight if I yeah I'd love to have more space but space cost money it does so but that's what you're looking to do is improve the workflow not an incident or no there was no there was no incident no our safety record is actually is very good thank you and one other point with respect to the rooftop Mechanicals there were some older fans on the roof have they been replaced yes they have been okay and then we're going to be and I'll have the sound expert the intent is to um also have smaller horsepowers for the new the new editions for the fans on those roofs that's correct okay any further questions on the operation so uh board members if you have questions of Jeff now if not we can call them back if you think of any Alan you can proceed okay thank you thank you thank you l yeah well let me would you introduce yourself to the board hi my name is Lisa Wright I work for Gardner Fox I'm a registered architect and you're a license architect yes and what is your educational background uh I have a masters of architecture from sty Buffalo okay and how long have you been practicing as an architect uh I've been practicing since 95 okay and have you ever testified before zoning board or planning board I have um in Pennsylvania uh Westchester and reading and and you you you have made these presentations before P I have yes um just like to offer her as a licensed architect accepted thank you um can you well we're going to call this A2 can you describe uh what's here on the your uh drawing and this is the uh you can explain what it is yeah so these are the proposed elevations of the new expansion um they're meant to uh be the same material as what is currently out there so what we have proposed uh for the new expansion is the bottom would be a fluted uh CMU uh block ball and then on top would be a metal Panel System just like it is same coloring same look as what's exactly out there now so what we're looking on the top this is what will be facing Park AV Park Avenue correct so we can see hard you can see that uh Park Avenue would have some uh sort of uh translucent Windows just to let in some light there a way to take that microphone around the table this come off you're going to break your neck the way think there you go this way much better so is this A2 A2 okay so can you mark it I did okay so the top elevation is the elevation facing Park Avenue um and you can see that we've uh included some uh openings on the top to let in some light they're translucent they're a cow wall system so you can't actually see through them they would just let light into the space to give them some more light uh the darker areas represent uh areas where we would have to have louvers to allow um air in for the new HVAC system they're just uh return air louvers just to get fresh air into the building uh above that uh the sort of popup areas on the elevation those indicate um screening that would be screening the HVAC units on the roof um so that would hide those from view from Park Avenue and so that screening is for the aesthetic to try to make it softer image yes and it it will you know reduce the sound as well a small amount but um the but we did on the bottom of this this board we have shown exactly what the the materials are so on um the left hand side that would be the metal panel system that is exactly what's out there now same coloring same look the middle uh represents the fluted block wall That's below that and then on the far right is the translucent panels that would let the light in on the top and then can you explain on the new addition what type of mechanical equipment will be on the roof and how many there will be um currently we're showing two units these are just um heat units and they're just to provide heat there is no compressors there's no air conditioning proposed for this and in addition to the two units that we are currently showing there would be two exhaust fans is there a reduced copy of this um I think I submitted electronically yeah there was in the it was in the package say Bob you might have received it in my email and I think there was a copy I may have one here there was a copy I think in your package printed by 11 in the PDF that I received there was any copy of that you can share later and I will email to Robert yes there was a um smaller copy of this circulated architecture we have all large only the engineering turns we have 17 11 by 17 yeah that's the s plan but I think we also submitted the architectural drawing I know I'm pretty certain it was in the email too but if not I can get it to you for wasn't there a PDF in the group of documents that you sent of this uh yes yes all right we got one yeah you got it okay there it is too many pieces of paper so just to refresh on on the new addition we're going to have uh thean there'll be two fans that'll be circulating the air inside the building just for heat yes yeah and how do you have any idea how that operates whe it's just when they're pull in the air from my understanding it's just to temper the the air inside okay and what was the other piece of equipment that was going up there there's so there's two rooftop units for heating and then there are two exhaust fanss two exhaust FS yes so we have the intake would be the louers on the side of the building and then they would exhaust through the roof anybody have any questions about the design yeah so maybe this was a question for the pre previous witness so there's not going to be any more units put on the roofs with to add noise no so I have a noise expert what she just said is this is the expansion there'll be two additional fans and my no will talk about that and then the louvers will allow the intake of the air so there will be two additional mechanical fans added on and we have noise is 7800 ft 7700 yes you're not air conditioning this no they don't need to just say Fred normally I would call on the engineers report at the end of the presentation but then we would have to bring everybody back so what I'm going to ask you to do is as the experts are presenting their portions oh interject yes great I don't mind any other questions on the design comments concerns issues colors chemistry well the colors do vary on the print and I know printers we all know how printers and plotters work uh the bottom of the uh structure looks like it's more of a tan or beige or brown color is it's it's meant to to match exactly what's out there which I think it's more of a cream color or white color yeah okay everybody good thank you thank you some in a factoryx factory okay me put your name on the record and good evening my name is D Travis North and what is your uh title what type of work do you do I am a landscape architect licensed in New Jersey and what's your educational background I have a degree in landscape architecture from Temple University in uh 2000 and how long have you been practicing as an architect uh almost 25 years okay4 have you presented before is there any Board of planning board before I have okay I like to offer him as a license uh landscape architect okay do you want to explain to the board I see you have the A1 up uh where we plan to um put the new buffer uh along Park Avenue should I bring up this yeah come uh I don't know how it only comes we do not have wireless is that correct pry we don't have a wireless microphone you hold this standard we should get one you identify the drawing that you just put up as A3 this is the landscape plan for the project and why don't you explain uh where the existing buffer is and what um what was there previously and what we plan to change it so at the North End of the site Long Park Avenue where the addition is going to be added there exists today two large oak trees and a number of evergreen trees that are in poor condition especially lower branches are um dying back and or have fallen um we will be preserving the two oak trees but the rest of the buffer will be removed in part to uh allow for the construction of the building in part to re to provide us an opportunity to replace with new plant material that's uh better suited for the site and also in part because of some grading opportunities that we're going to slightly increase the height of the BM that's out there today above the existing conditions anywhere between 6 in or a foot and a half higher than what's out there today and then we excuse me for is should we be looking at this no uh on the small package that appears to be uh that was an old plan that was uh looking this she number l11 l11 probably being provided all the material it's a pickup stick package right here they it's all messed up now we're relying on you okay sorry worri you go so we're going to be replacing that buffer with new Evergreen plant material native and adapted species some material that can grow quite large all Evergreen in nature we will also be providing some additional plantings uh flowering trees uh to provide a little uh seasonal color in addition to that along Pine Street there's some additional Street trees columnar in nature because of the reduced width between the curb and the building we don't want to create a situation that's causing problems for the building or the street and some additional Shrubbery planted in there as well there when I look at that area now although except for the two major trees you mentioned it does screen it pretty well the buffering that you're proposing will it have equal to or greater screening of that area initially it will it will be slightly less but over time the plant material which is all fast growing material will grow in and will provide greater screening than what exists there today when you say over time 5 years so for the first five years you have less screening I don't want to say less screening because I think we have more plant material that would be going in compared to what exists today and it will also have branching to the ground the row closest to Park Avenue exists today with a lot of uh dead lower branching and there's a lot of dieback in all of the existing plantings today so you'll have there will be gaps between the trees to allow them to grow but where the trees exist will be solid Travis is there a way to increase the size of planting you we can certainly increase the size of the plant material and I believe in your letter you would recommended slightly larger plant material and we can do that they they have provided a a buffer substantial buffer we have asked that maybe they work with us if they've agreed to work with us some larger species maybe some other types of species different number of species on 8T on Center 10 ft on Center so if the African agrees to work with our landscape architect I mean that we'll make sure that it's that or better the one issue that prip had brought up uh thank you by the way it was an old approval from the 90s where there was Landscaping then Shrubbery and dogwoods I think there were Maples dogwoods and some shrubs along Pine obviously today none of that is there or very little of that is there um we're looking to put that behind us and work with a new if the applicants are willing to work with us and enhance that Landscaping along there now the way they have it shown in slightly additional some different species varieties uh so we actually do provide something a little more aesthetic for the residents across the street to look at when you say working with you uh when do when does the board or when does the township know that the two of you after working together have come up with the final plan as far as the the zoning board itself well the town would know when we get through resolution Zing okay right when we go through resolution compliance we would not recommend approval if there was anything that we buted heads on I would recommend they come back here they come return to the board if there's something they would disagree with or all within reason so you would be the monitor I if if the board expressed themselves that they like the plan that's correct but they're not going to look at that plan oh they they will not but this I I think you'll be the monitor to say that that plan that they like was installed yes and I'm going to I'm going to say to the board this evening it's going to be enhanced uh greater than it is today if the board gives him the authority to do that right right we we have no problem working with Fred on the Landscaping So the plan that we had is what we're doing but we're talking about enhancing it working with Fred to decide what the initial height of the plant average the initial height we were proposing 6 to 8 ft for the evergreen trees and can you compare 6 to 8 ft with the walls you you are constructing the block walls up to certain height and then the metal frame metal panels so with what is the height of the wall and what is the height of the Landscaping that comparison will give the initial aesthetic of the constructions once you receive the co that's the initial aesthetic of the plants as well as of the wall so compare the height of the wall and Landscape plants you say it is 6 to 8 ft so we want to know what is the height of the wall That's the architecture question different entity so the wall that you're speaking about could you tell us where it is point to it on the plan so we and the purpose of that wall what is the purpose of the wall oh sorry about mu this is A2 yes sorry I said this is A2 um so the height of the block wall is 12 feet and then above that is the the metal panel and what is the purpose of that wall why would you be building a wall that is the exterior wall of the building so that's holding everything up does the wall extend further out by the loading dock area it does we created a visual sound wall that extends out so we're leaving the existing sound wall that is existing we're going we're proposing to uh fix that one because it's in pretty poor shape so we'll fix that one up that will be rucko to look nice and then that one will stay in in in place and then we are proposing an additional one out near closer to Park Avenue to Shield it further so and how high is that wall at the highest point 12 fet 12 that's the highest yes and what is the height on the sound wall it's the same yes and the purpose of the sound wall is also to buffer some of the uh noise coming from the loading area sound and visual buffer yes so that loading area where the wall is is that what Jeffrey spoke to from 6:30 a.m. to 9:30 p.m. that's where these shuttles or single unit vehicles are coming in yes that's that's an existing loading area that's not going to change but we're now putting a sound wall there to also buffer that so how are you enhancing I guess this wall is it enhancing or providing more of a screening or buffering for the residents so the new so the new wall is here correct the existing wall is here just refer to A333 okay A3 shows uh the existing wall back at this place where we are currently leaving it and then we are just expanding the new wall out to create a further buffler it just sort of creates two additional parking areas in that little area but it would be blocked from VI sure understand and that the existing wall is going to be repaired and correct and the loading area is not going to move no closer you're still going to leave the main garage door where it is then correct the new building has no exterior okay yeah I understand opening I just wanted that you're not going to be backing that truck in closer to the people no John they proposed two parking stalls for passenger vehicles okay in between thank you now the the question that was raised with this I'm going to refer again to A3 with a 12T wall this is the elevation at grade at the building there is a slope up away from the building upwards towards the residences of 4 to 6 feet and the plant material as current per the current plant is proposed to be installed at 6 ft 6 6 to 8 ft so the proposed plant material as per the current plan shows roughly about the same height from the perspective of the neighbors okay while you're there can you just mention the two Park additional parking spots that we're going to have so the two additional parking spots are in here between the existing sound wall and the proposed sound wall and again the loading is not moving and will there we're asking a little variance because we're off by one foot will there be sufficient space for those cars to pull in and pull out correct so the the variance is for the width of the drive a serving those two parking spaces uh I believe we're required 24 ft uh 25 25 ft that's and we are currently at 22 and change um but again it's only serving those two parking spaces they are passenger vehicle spaces we do not see a situation where there would need to be a car parked in the drive a to access those spaces while another one's backing out and the reason we have that reduced Dimension is because there was a request for the sound wall to be in line with the end of the building so that it looked like an extension of the building that par is for your employees not guests correct and can you show the board where the existing storm water system is and how it operates so the existing storm water facility is on it's a separate legal parcel across Loop Road the existing storm water facility is over here there is some underground pipe catching there's an existing catch Basin in the pavement over here in the pavement of the existing parking lot that will get replaced there are additional existing catch basins up along the away those are no longer going to be in place and we are no we are not making significant changes to the storm water we're reducing impervious a portion of that impervious is going to be converted from parking which is considered dirty to roof which is considered a cleaner source so we are reducing the impact on the existing stormw water facility we are not proposing any changes to the storm water facility as a result so if I could just with your storm water the roof drains will be directed underground correct okay directly to the base correct we have we have a pipe proposed along the uh building that will collect the roof drains there's no Overland flow from the roof and the existing storm water system can handle any runoff with the proposed new buffer in the new building correct so so there is an enhancement with storm water and we've asked for a a abbreviated report just identifying that and I spoke with the engineer earlier today uh you're taking vehicle surface which is oils and antifreezes and whatever you have it and you're now turning it into a clean roof so it is actually considered clean water so there is an enhancement and we've asked for a report just citing the actual statistics and facts and they've agreed to do that yeah we'll agree to submit the report so even though Fred they're removing those drains on the side it's still being picked up by the roof going into there is a storm pipe still going down the side proposed the dra that the roof drains wall tie into going down yes thank you sorry Fred did you have any other questions on the uh Landscaping yeah let's talk about Landscaping I had mentioned something and I I spoke to your offic ear today yes U regarding the separate lot across the street that the storm water base and is on and the parking and I don't know how many parking spaces over there I don't know that we need to 30 20 um right now it's just lawn and I've asked in our letter that you consider putting something there to enhance uh when you ride through Maple Shade look a little better stop headlight glare whether we put shrubs of some type skip laurel Cherry Laurel whatever you can do again if you would work with us just to do something to give it a little more Greenery uh than grass yes and we're we're open to adding some additional plantings around the existing parking facility I point out where that is the existing parking facility is over here okay where Route 73 plantings be around the perimeter of the park existing parking facility on the route 73 side and on the northwest side okay right now when you ride down 73 you see Vehicles you just see cars sitting in a parking lot again some are empty as as we heard testimony ear but just enhance it headlight glare you know all that even potentially blocking some of the trucks that are in there at 9:30 at night um pulling in and out so thank you I have a question uh in the previous approval 1996 you have a trees and the scrub at the front towards the 73 you will replace all you will re replant it were they planted or is that the question yeah but it was the previous approval as you said you will be putting more trees around the parking areas but there are the previous uh approval where you supposed to plant the trees and the SES will you put it will you include into your current proposal we'll take that into consideration we'll work with the township engineer again my goal would be to put the past behind us and let's so we don't have to refer back to 1990 or or whatever it was and we'll move forward and and it'll be similar or better than what they had capture the essence of what that said but in current times yes sir okay I think there was a question about putting shields on external lights we can agree to that so all of the all of the lighting that's proposed is mounted to the building and all of the proposed lighting is considered fully shielded which is a legacy term The Illuminating engineer Society doesn't really use that term anymore but what that means is that it's not producing glare we have a lighting plan that's uh part of the site plan package that models all of that lighting and demonstrates that there's no light that trespasses across uh the subject property's own property line so it shouldn't be a nuisance to any of the neighboring properties I'm going to ask a trick question potentially uh onong Pine are there any lights on the building I don't believe there are I uh I walk down there are there any lights there are no lights currently Long Pine existing yes existing not that I'm aware of are there any proposed along Pine yes show us where that is is it on the existing building or just on the expansion there is there's a mandor right here and there's a proposed light that's above that okay and that's the M fire safety requirements okay but along the remainder of the existing structure there are no lights on Pine is that correct I'm not existing I'm not certain just wanted to identify the impact on a neighborhood currently versus what what's and we've asked for a waiver for sidewalks but one of the reasons why the waver would be to uh reduce the impervious coverage and also to also allow the burm along Park Avenue to be filled in so sidewalks would kind of contradict that the sidewalks would also um negatively impact the two existing trees that we're looking to preserve FR is there any other comments for Travis um that that's the gist of regarding the landscaping again if you agree to work with us we had details twoyear warranties normal removing cages from Plants normal stuff we just work out those details but when at the end if I could go through the letter I'll just identify the variances and and but yeah that that really is it in a nutshell the expansion is taking a parking lot sound and putting a building and I guess we're going to hear about that from your my next yes any other questions on I'm going to ask the board do they have any questions with regard to lighting Landscaping thank you I have one okay okay when I was reading the package for the route 73 application that's going to come after yours they had an Engineers report in there that said it seemed to say that they were hiring a third party that would at least once a year look at whatever the proposed and approved Landscaping was to make sure that it was being maintained that's a problem with all of our appics we spent a lot of time on it at this meeting the engineer plants and make sure that all that planting that we talked about takes place M and then he goes over to many more applications and never looks back and it seemed like the l73 property was going to hire a third party that said I'm going to come and make an inspection annually at least and we're going to look at the soils we're going to look at the plantings we're going to look at the lawn we're going to look at everything that should be there to make sure that it's still there do we have anything like that planned for here um no it isn't there is obviously a two-year maintenance period after they finish the project in which I can go out there and say you need to replace XY and Z beyond that two years it's Property Maintenance and we all know what it's a difficult job and uh it's rare that somebody says oh all those shrubs died but I can bring you to every site where we spend a lot of time and you spend a lot a lot of time looking at and it's not there anymore because it's just naturally they die they pull them out and so what do we do about that like I what I I never thought of what we should do except enforcement in town it's enforcement but it seems like there's a way to have a third party come in and do that review well they're obligated to maintain that Landscaping um we well two two things is I can have um Travis's firm submit a report after it's installed staying what's installed so that Fred will have it and secondly we also represented to you if you go out to our facility along the Loop Drive you'll see how we've maintained the Landscaping it's it's pretty manicur we just heard from P I understand I can't talk about the had it on Pine Avenue at one time well exist there Unfortunately they didn't we didn't do land we didn't maintain it on Park Avenue but we're telling you now that we're going to have our landscaper maintain it and we're also putting the irrigation in so I'm never going to make that mistake again you're tell the plan is to make sure that all the materials that we're putting in on Park well will be maintaining what triggered me in reading the route 73 reports is that perhaps as a Township we should look into that being a requirement because you're going to be busy on other applications yes you in the next two years you can go out there but you're going to have another meeting night where there's six other applications that you're looking at you're not going to do that so you you need to have a watch not type of thing we know they're obligated to maintain it well but but if they don't if they're not told that they're not I agree then next year it drops a little further and then a little further there there are so many notes that we could add there's one example is we put a row of shrubs in front of the cars to stop the headlight the goal is to make a head row so what the landscaper does he goes out there and he makes little circles and it never becomes a hedge row and that's I could put a million notes on the plans but it turns into more of a Code Enforcement issue I mean we we are doing that more more now saying that the shrubs have to grow they can't well we also know that code enforcement is not going to do it we can do the condition of resolution for the landscape maintenance plan so applicant is obligated to maintain the landscape through out the light of the business if somebody's looking yes and we're not going to look is what I'm saying yeah so who looks if it is a condition on the plan takes the peak and says oh they're not there such situation will not arise in future that there is no trees no plants now you can't leave it up to the residence you got have something formal it's not for this application but it's something for this board to consider as a recommendation because of what I read for the next half okay anybody else Landscaping lighting chemistry thank you okay thank you uh Scott can you put your name on the record yes my name is Scott Hine and who do you work for I work for Metropolitan Acoustics in Philadelphia and what what does that do what do you do I am an acoustical consultant Metropolitan Acoustics is an a sound and vibration consulting firm uh we build sound propagation models we do sound inside building Sound Outside buildings um we acoustical Consultants we've been in business for 34 years and what's your educational background I have a bachelor's of Science and Acoustics from Columbia College Chicago and have you published articles in your area of expertise yes okay and um you have prior experience appearing before planning boards Z boards planning boards and zoning boards in Pennsylvania okay I'm going to offer him as an acoustic expert exceptable okay um I think as part of this application you were asking to go out and do a study and you uh prepared can you explain what your study uh involved and how you did it sure so we did multiple studies the first study I'll talk about is the ambient condition study so that is just to determine what is the Ambient sound level today how loud is it today near the locations of potentially uh nearby residents to the expansion so uh what we did in mid August was we set up two sound level meters um and I don't do they have a copy of this um I have extra copies of the report which we it's already yeah but we can so I'm looking at page four figure three and that is a Google Earth image of approximately the location of these sound level meters and the intent think we killed the tree okay before we go forward we're we're going to mark this we're up to uh Rob i' also I'd also like to point out to the board this was received today I don't know had you made a submission earlier or no we put it out today okay it was received today just want I got it today too I think we're at 84 Rob what number are we up to four 84 is the uh exterior sound study dated September 9 2024 paired by um Scott halty for Metropolitan Acoustics and that's the report Scott I'm going to ask you if you could acerate what you're doing cuz we have another application after this yes it's important what you're doing but uh give us the har understood so uh we went to take Ambient sound level measurements near the proposed facility to see how loud it is during the daytime and the nighttime uh additionally we did a secondary study inside of the facility um to see how loud the the sound from inside of the facility would be coming through the new facade of the proposed expansion so those were the two surveys that we conducted and so your study would also consider the potential impact of the noise from the U rooftop new rooftop mechanical units on the building correct the second portion of our study was to build a 3D acoustical model of the area including the new rooftop units including the new expansion the uh new louvers um that let air into the building that's all included in our our model the existing houses the existing terrain um one thing to note that is not included in the model is any of the existing Landscaping so that is is not considered in within the model um and this model makes predictions of sound levels to the closest properties and so if we go to figure 10 of your report which is on page nine um you're showing what the decel level will be uh on the front of the Residential Properties along Park Avenue you identify them all the different buildings so what will be the the deciel level from The Sound generated from the proposed new um mechanical equipment on the front of those houses which will be 5T above ground correct so in figure 10 you see it 5T above ground this is to assume someone standing on the ground this figure 10 shows a heat map of the sound and and uh really we're in there's a table on page 10 that shows each receiver location but they range from 43 DBA to 48 DBA um and one other thing to note U we also considered houses that had second stories um that may have uh a different perspective of noise from the ground those rece reers were also calculated and that is shown in figure 11 and as you go down the side of the houses I think on figure 10 you show that the the noise level would actually also decrease correct and this is this uh these predictions are from the new rooftop equipment as well as sound coming through the facade of the new proposed building so long Park Avenue uh as I read your report the decel level the sounds from the proposed sound from the rooftop equipment is going to be ranging around 45 50 DB and as we go down the side of the house it gets even lower down to maybe 35 40 DB correct from the sound from the proposed expansion yes and when you go to table five your report you measure the ambient sounds which is the surrounding sounds including the noise from the traffic from Route 73 correct and what were what were those numbers so we measured in two Loc S one location that was uh closer to the corner of Pine and park during the daytime that was 57 during the night time it was 56 um and we also took a measurement that was uh further east closer to Route 73 um and Route 73 is really what's dominating the Ambient sound condition here so that was louder it was 65 during the day and 62 during the night So based upon your study the Ambient sound would be greater than the sounds generated from the rooftop mechanical equipment from the perspectives of the homes along Park Avenue correct and just to put this in perspective what would be other types of equipment you normally find outside for example say a c gas mower sure what type of deciel level would you expect to hear from that so a gas lawn mower somewhere around n uh 100t away from it is right around 65 DBA um if you get a lot closer to the lawn mower it's you know 85 90 95 and what about um so to give me a relationship of these numbers I think I read that Maple Shade does not have a Sound Ordinance no with dbas being specified what the state of New Jersey does and I believe 65 is what they said was acceptable but not an excess of they accept 65 during the daytime and 50 at night time so it's more stringent at night time so in your recap of all the the spots that you did your Sound Engineering on did the testing show that they would be above it or below it the acoustical model of the new equipment in the facade showed that at every single location it would be below the New Jersey state ordinance not both daytime and nighttime requirements would it also be below the existing conditions correct actually the existing conditions due to the proximity of 73 are louder than the New Jersey state ordinance uh yeah I'm I'm referring to existing conditions from the parking lot the existing rooftop the fans is that being reduced to the residence this study is uh on the new equipment but the ambient measured condition captures all of the activity on site we had the meters set up for four to five days on site so is the sound being reduced by the construction of this building from the existing that I that was not studied I think what Fred's saying is if you remove the sounds from the cars in the parking lot the sounds of Motors turning on um headlight you know radios people speaking would that have an impact on the Sounds in the neighborhood sure yeah removal of the parking lot will definitely lower for the small portion that they're making sound yes and so things like a lawn mower snow blower um maybe a motorcycle coming by would be louder than the sounds that are going to be generated from this uh decel levels will be higher than from the uh proposed nighttime uh the rooftop equipment absolutely that's a quick summary of you know we're we were asked to board members explain the the impact of the noise from the proposed new rooftop equipment I just have a quick question sure why would the ambient noise level be the same daytime and night time that because Route 73 never stops is that correct I just wonder Ken you look like you had something um when you when motorcycles go by that's a brief moment compared to a factory that is running all the time so when you level rises that's that's for a mill you know like for just a few seconds um and that I guess would impact these numbers or no the ambient condition like a motorcycle driving by is that was that the question it would it would impact the ambient condition very minimally because we're looking at it for such a long window that's why you don't want to come out and do a small survey because you might not actually be able to get the conditions that's why we surveyed it for about a week anyone else fry good thank you I have my one more witness Final witness final put your name on the record please uh good evening Mr chairman and board members and members of the public uh I'm Mark a Rema I'm a licensed uh uh uh planner and landscape architect in the state of New Jersey I've been in the planning field for over 44 years um I have uh served as a uh uh planner for boards where I currently do now uh uh three in uh Burlington County uh and I have also appeared before numerous planning boards zoning boards throughout the state of New Jersey and I've also been accepted as a plan a professional planning witness in New Jersey Superior Court accept thank you Mr M can you address the um positive and negative criteria necessary for the use variance yes so um I'm going to explain what I did and uh how I arrived at those proofs um uh I visited the site several times uh I also reviewed the uh Township zoning ordinance and master plan um as well as uh examined the the proposed plans uh that are before you today so we're in the uh BD business uh development Zone uh this Zone had been changed quite a number of years ago it used to allow for an industrial park and that's how uh you see this property and all the surrounding properties on on Loop Road developed uh uh all those years ago and we're here today because now the change in the zoning uh does not permit uh the uh existing uh manufacturing facility uh as a matter of fact all of the industrial uses that surround it are also uh excluded from from the the zoning ordinance as well um I'm not going to go over the proposal we we uh heard uh the uh amount of square footage we heard what's going to happen inside we heard the days and hours operation and so forth um I always like to give a little bit of a a planning framework to to help develop the uh proofs so here we have um uh the proposal for roughly 7700 foot of the the building addition and it's going to be replacing the existing uh parking lot and what I heard uh from The Sound expert is that um the replacement of that is going to also eliminate uh mostly the nighttime noises that come from the the second shift when they're going home starting up the cars talking um and that's what the residents uh can hear uh across the street so so by putting the building there and putting the U uh type of building there and and and the quieter uh equipment on top will will create a a uh less or a lower noise generation from this proposal and also what I heard was that the Ambient sound because of root 73 uh there's a den right there's there's the constant din of the traffic which is which is louder um also uh when I visited the site I'm also a landscape architect so the the uh uh trees you see there today um the pine trees uh they're changing their habit uh when they were young they had probably a really nice uh effective screen now some of them are struggling but also they're changing their habit when pine trees mature they lose their lower branches and then they take on that very tall spread out appearance and then there's no longer a lower um uh uh buffer or screening effect from the tree and so what I saw and I'm going to introduce something else that should have been brought up earlier Bob A4 A5 all right A5 and this is going to be improved um working with um uh Fred's office but this is somewhat illustrative of the type of screening that we're we're thinking about and and you remember uh the Travis talking about uh the building's kind of recessed and and park park is up higher four to six feet and and then he's adding a burm on top of that so the idea here is to get these newer conifers evergreen trees to start to fill in and as they grow and mature uh and it does take a number of years five years and if we are putting in the the 6 to 10 foot uh uh species uh you'll have a much better uh immediate effect of that screening and and and you're just looking here at section A that's that view that on the current Landscaping is proposed but but it's it's quite quite heavy quite effective right now uh if the trees were just going to remain there and and we didn't have this expansion uh I can't predict when those pine trees will lose all their lower branches but they're in the process of doing that and in long term they won't be an effective screen anymore and and then you'll really see the parking lot uh down there uh also you heard about uh the um uh propos proposal to extend a new sound wall uh next to the other sound wall so that that encapsulates whatever activity is there and any of that two parking spaces will be uh buffered from the residents uh uh to park uh in terms of the variances we're here for an expansion of a pre-existing non-conforming use uh which is the the manufacturing facility and you heard that it's uh for improving proactive I that was a very good uh term the proactive action to to make it uh more efficient and safer for the employees in in inside of the building uh also you heard uh I think Fred talked about it that uh replacing uh the dirty impervious surface of the parking lot drippings from Cars oils and so forth and now that's going to be replaced with a uh a roof that the runoff will be clean clean water runoff in into the uh uh town uh Township system right and so uh also a slight reduction imperious surface as well another another benefit to the public um and then also in terms of the variances and I'm sure Fred you'll you you'll let's talk about the front the right exactly so so we talked about the um use variance which which from section 205- 33a that's the the use variance we're talking about about but in terms of the uh uh front yard setback section 205 36a uh pen 5 pen small a it's required to be 40 ft that's the front yard setback and we've got how many front yards here we've got really three right we've got Loop Road we've got Pine and and we have a park right so that that's that's a unique situation that um uh requires uh that front yard setback to be from all three of those streets and what we're doing is we're basically putting the building in the same uh footprint of the parking lot so from Park uh it's uh 33.2 ft uh from Pine 30.9 ft and from blop it's 3 8.8 ft Mark Mark 33.1 the one end of the building was 33. but the other end Clos to 33.1 it's okay so I know it's te I I knew Fred was going to uh make sure I I say it correctly you'll thank you for setting them up like exactly thank you FR so it's 33.1 ft and um uh also the other variance is that um two-way parking aisle you required 25 ft and that's for those two small Park parking stalls uh for the employees and uh originally I think it was 24 ft and now I think it's like almost 23.7 or something like that yeah I I didn't have a dimension on that yeah so I I estimated it to be about 24 feet and by by the way 24t wide U perpendicular parking aisle uh is is is standard these days 25 is really um uh an old standard and and uh 24 ft is more than enough uh for for backing up and then um uh uh making your turn for a car uh to leave the parking spot um also uh the uh design exception and that was the requirement uh section 175-walking on on the manufacturing side um we really don't want to encourage people walking over along the manufacturing side anyway and and second of all um putting the sidewalk on uh Park would reduce the amount of uh buffer area we have plus there's two very large mature oak trees out there very beautiful trees that have to be retained don't want to disturb around their their their root system with side walk because you're you're playing with their their ability to to to to continue to live I was wondering how a sidewalk would go there yeah yeah it's unnecessary then why put it there and and then risk losing those Majestic oak trees right so all right now I have to that's the framework so now I have to talk about the legal proofs positive and negative if we could go ahead I'm just going to inject the buffer along uh Park in it supposed to be oh yes uh thank you um I'm trying to find in my letter yeah I gave Allan my letter so oh okay Mark if I gave you another five minutes could you wrap it up I can I will uh and and the and the buffer um uh well actually we're going to come back and do do the Landscaping so we're going to address that buffer all right so positive criteria special reasons uh promote the intent and purpose of Municipal land use law njsa 4 55 d-2 I'm going to give you that each little letter I remember that and I'm going to I'm going to par I'm going to paraphrase I was playing that number in Lottery did you hit no oh um so the first one would be C to provide adequate light air in open space so we're we're taking the same footprint of the impervious putting a building on it and quite frankly um the level of of buffering that we're going to uh uh uh put in is going to provide uh that beautiful uh light air and open space around around the uh proposed building and we're not expanding beyond the footprint of the uh existing uh impervious service G to provide sufficient space and appropriate locations for a variety of uses industrial uses are one of the uses in in the law and of course the property has a long history 60 years plus manufacturing um it's in it's in a u Industrial Park former approved industrial park and this addition will complement the uh uh existing building as well as uh complement uh what's going on around in terms of the industrial park I to promote a desirable visual environment don't want to keep repeating myself but uh I point to the the uh landscape plan which will be enhanced um the matching colors and so on and so forth the materials uh will be consistent with the building and create an attractive uh uh appearance um J to uh prevent urban sprawl we're taking a piece of property that's already been developed with a parking lot and we're putting a building on on top of it so we're um actually uh not having to uh build on new green land you know a lawn or another landscaped area this is this is basically impervious surface that's being swapped with the building M more efficient use of land same reasons it's sufficient to use uh the parking lot for the building the parking lot is no longer necessary uh because we heard the shift and change in and um uh how people uh go to work uh it's just the basically the uh uh people work in the manufacturing and some of the folks that go to the office the rest work remotely and then I come back to a promote the public health safety morals and general welfare next part site suitability site suitability is this site suitable for this expansion it's industrial an industrial park it's uh expanding the uh uh uh onto the uh uh existing parking lot area and it can and it can accommodate the additional uh buffering and Landscaping that is going to be proposed negative criteria so we have to look at what the uh impacts are to the surrounding properties so to to the north um uh that's uh East Park Avenue uh and remember it has to be sub substantial detriment not not some but it has to be substantial detriment so are these changes of getting rid of the uh parking area where uh the second shift disturbs the neighbors uh you have the light and the glare um also the expansion of the building will make it run quieter uh uh and uh replacing a a struggling buffer with with a new nice enhanced buffer uh I think uh that will have um little negative impact on on uh on the neighbors uh also to the east it's more industrial I see no negative impact to the South more industrial I don't see any negative impact and to the West um uh across Pine uh there are two residents over there um uh and we we're going to be required to come back and do the enhancement of Landscaping on Pine that should have been done so I I think uh again there'll be uh no substantial negative impact there last uh reconcile with the master plan that's the second prong of the negative criteria you have a 2016 master plan reexamination report and I went through it uh really doesn't talk about this property at all but it does have some policies in there that I think we're advancing Maple Street supports the efforts to strengthen the commercial industrial uh tax base and to enhance the visibility of existing businesses it's exactly what we're proposing um Maple Shade supports efforts protecting residential neighborhoods from excess of on street parking and non-local traffic and S support sustainability for the neighborhoods so I heard that there's some parking on on uh Pine uh the um uh U app an can have his uh uh employees parked where they're supposed to be parked um also uh with replacement of the buffer with a better buffer uh one that's struggling with with a new uh one that's going to uh have a long longevity uh I think is going to be uh uh speaking to that policy um also Maple Shade support strengthening diversifying the uh commercial industrial composition of uh the route 73 Corridor this speaks directly to that enhancement of the industrial uh base and composition of the route 73 quor um so um I could go on there's many other things but I think those policies capture rather well in your your document um so I'm going to conclude by saying uh the um use variance can be granted uh because um it uh promotes the purpose intent of the municipal laners law uh particularly suited for this small expansion of the existing industrial building uh the proposal Acres no substantial detriment to the public good as a matter of fact we heard a number of positives cleaning up the water U red eliminating the the sounds and noise at night uh from the parking lot um and uh also it does not substantially impair the intent and purpose of the uh Zone plan and zoning ordinance thank you thank you you were seven minutes of I went past five I'm sorry I he's kidding me I did interrupt them so let's BL on Frid okay uh any questions comments concerns about him yes no thank you Mark thank you thank you thank Mark did you have a a g go ahead I think it's going to be for the man in the Jeff Jeff Je um get in front of a microphone uh since this new uh manufacturing facility is going to be right across the street from a residential area we've talked about Sight and Sound what about smell any odor from your whatever you're making um there certainly is some odor in the building I don't know if we've ever had any anyone say there was odor outside of the building um the vent fans all go uh up through the roof um so I'm not aware of there ever being a complaint where is it now that is it in the middle of your property what's that where you manufacture it it's it's up against that the wall that we're that the uh yes it is it's it's right there I have one question comp this you're adding the new sound wall are you taking the other sound wall down no we will have two two buffers there okay thank you anyone else BR do you have anything uh I would just add at the site plan we had talked about the expansion was I thought it was primarily for the storage to transfer to Mount Laurel and so forth so there actually is manufacturing going on inside of the new facility there there likely will be yes yeah just I think it was a little different from what we may have heard okay does it make a difference in no no I if you'd like could I run through the letter real quick sure I I won't belabor this I'm just going to hit everything to make sure I think we've heard enough about planning so I'm just going to go through some items real quick obviously it's a it's a D2 variance that they need for the use it's not a permitted use it's not an excluded use in our ordinance but uh nonetheless it's no longer allowed uh the rest of the variances are all bulk in nature and we have a couple of waivers so very quickly we did hear I'm going to refer to October 2 letter start of page six General comments first one was the nature and extent of the business we've heard more than sufficient information on that second item was regarding airboard emissions so I'm glad that that was brought up um there is the township ordinance requires certain standards so you'll agree to comply with those standards absolutely okay and so far you've not heard any complaints from Neighbors regarding odor emissions no okay uh three was regarding the noise standards we've heard a lot about the s and the Acoustics next item was regarding compliance with storage and waste disposal does this facility add to your waste disposal or storage of waste material on the site it does not no it does not okay um the maximum impervious surface I'm not sure we hit that currently it's 77.2 they're reducing it to 77.0 required 75 it's a pre-existing non-conforming I'm not sure where we are Mr kingsburry on that but a variance may be required for the impervious cover let's stop right there to find out he's reducing it but it still exceeds the ordinance so technically it requires a variance yeah we we ask for the variance but I think we had testimony from Travis that the existing storm waterer system can handle anything and it actually it handled it before before we were at 77.2 now we're going to 70 so we've actually although we're over your maximum we're reducing the amount of storm water yeah I'm not saying there's an issue I'm just pointing out that we need a variance on that yes okay next item was the front yard setback 40 4040 we're at 33.1 30.9 and 38.8 so obviously they're not exceeding parking lot area but now we have a structure so they are variances for front yard setbacks uh the next item was regarding suspicion parking at the very beginning of the meeting we heard about the park parking 111 employees I think Jeff you mentioned total changes with you know covid obviously people working from home there was testimony there's sufficient parking there summer um other times of year you're you're checking obviously we don't want parking on Park and pine I just want to get some clarification on that U Mr Fox you mentioned something about yeah they would not be parking there's no no parking on Park and I think je said that you know some of the employees might actually Park on Pine we have Extra Spaces but uh sometimes it's just convenient for them to get to their door understand public parking so anybody can park there right yes anyone can park there unless this board says that employees have to park in the parking lot so I just want to see what the feel of the board is regarding Park on Pine have we had complaints I don't I don't know I are there any complaints do you received complaints we have not received a complaint about that no I sold two cars today okay all right um future employees we heard testimonial on that um there are no plans for future employees with this expansion nothing um Ada spaces obviously you have to comply you have three you need five we deal with that part of resolution compliance uh two-way driveway heard testimony on that typically 25 ft you would want when you have cars backing out we have a single loaded two spaces so not a concern nothing I would be concerned with and I would recommend and board consider that variance uh the buffer screening uh we' asked for all the parking areas they've agreed to do that that's on lot six which is a separate lot along Route 73 houseside light shielding we heard testimony on the lighting uh the planet buffer 25 ft uh that is along Park Avenue and it's the residential and they are providing that buffer and they're going to enhance that the sidewalk that is a waiver to eliminate the sidewalk along the street frontages uh 14 rooftop units I know we heard briefly I think from the architect that they're not visible they will not be visible there will be parapets or something that we won't see the rooftop units from the residential areas is that correct yes there screening to um okay from the visual parting to block and should they be visible you agree to provide parp pits or screening on the rooftop yeah okay thank you um any sign changing Jeff with this no signs okay um we had asked number 16 was regarding types of trees I don't want to bore you on that 17 also was on evergreen shrubs uh buffer ring was number 88 again details uh number 19 was details on Landscaping 20 details on Landscaping the irrigation system they're going to provide we heard the testimony on that uh the architectural plans we saw all the renderings we the colors we heard about the materials the stormw number 23 is a stormw management operate operations and uh maintenance they've agreed to do that it's in the letter it was part of the completeness and now coming up in the letter um stor report they've agreed at least I believe you've agreed to provide us with a brief analysis provide St approve the site um third 25 is a minor detail for signatures uh 26 is just reminding them that there is most likely an obligation for affordable house housing based on the increased value and that's something that's assessed by the tax assessor they they come up with that number and the last thing is saying that safety is your responsibility and keep everybody safe through the process and put those notes on the plans and that's really all I have Mr chair I only have one question you you mentioned um three front yard setbacks that's correct why does the property have three front yards not one we have pine we have Park no matter how many streets you you border isn't there one front door no sir there's a chance to have four front yards any Street Front is consider front yard okay that's not uncommon Corner lots have two front yards a normal Corner Lots I know in residential areas wherever the front door is that's the address but that's not the front yard by definition okay okay any questions of Fred's report Allan any questions no that's the end of our presentation I think you can open it to the public Jeff anything no no I'm good thank you I'm going to open up the this application to the general public if anyone in the general public would like to speak please come F you're still awake I'm glad that was long you swearing again I got swear you in all right let's get started when you say again did I swear you in already kind of yeah you did he was sworn in I didn't bring my glasses I'm supposed to assign my name to this yeah all right my name is Scott Malloy I live at 501 East Park Avenue I have the distinct uh pleasure of living across the street from the proposed expansion uh I don't know which of these pictures shows the parking lot that they want to they want to expand over but I'm going to go over a little history lesson here when I moved in in 96 there was a house across the street and that house do you mind if I point to where I'm talking about what's your address 501 East Park AV you can point it at on the chart there I could if I could read it see I say I'm over here so I'm at 501 I'm over here right across the street this is the parking lot now if if you went in to about here this you all used to be a residential house and yard it went from Park to Loop and it was the full it was full residential that first I'm done looking at that we can hear you that's good you don't need that I apologize that first application where we got the in the 90s that we learned that a bunch of stuff wasn't uh followed through on that was promised that was a compromise so they wanted to bring it to the street the first time we all argued it and got them to set back make that a parking lot and stop the building where it is that was a compromise then this is actually going to bring it back to where they wanted to go the first time and we don't want it there now that said I do I do want to quickly address a couple points that were spoken to during your conversation before I get into my my ran we talked about waivers and about uh Varian variances one of them was that we're going to overlook something about uh water being close to water the distance to water that was part of the completeness yes that's 500 foot yes 500t now I'm not I'm not an expert on environmental so take it for what this is worth the pens sawen Creek is right on the other side of Route 73 and this group is working with a lot of products that could probably compromise the penson creek if something terrible were to happen not saying it did never said it would but I'm just saying it's a concern I don't know that we should just you know write that one off or what have you whatever that you know waiver was or what have you I suggest we think about that a little bit but another thing we talked about was parking Park they do park on the public Road in Pine their employees do it I don't care one way or the other their commercial vehicles are there too so that different times a day different times of the week not all the time but they'll have their truck parked there or their contractor's Vehicles parked there it's not uncommon again it's public parking it's part of life in Maple Shade you know but it does happen and let's not say that it doesn't um the idea that they're going to use just 73 to get that truck to the door of their facility and to their overflow or whatever that is in Cherry Hill they're using that's not true not saying this group's lying to you I don't know that they know where their drivers are going I see the truck on the on the private the public roads coming down the the railroad tracks I guess they're coming down Main Street at some point Styles the whole nine [Music] yards so that truck is all already working that you know on these public roads that's not just on 73 we've had truck drivers on the front lawn of my yard on the front lawn of my neighbor's yard trying to make that hard right to get to not just it's not just stonard we had Thompson laminate and we have Eastern Lift Truck and all that there too but what you're doing here is you're taking my buffer away so I already have too much commercial by me when you're coming back you're coming further to me it's a problem and I'm going to explain why in a little bit but we already have a lot of that traffic commercial traffic and I want to thank you for bringing up the fact that there was some fire I appreciate that that fire was a significant fire that she's referring to back in the '90s it caused an evacuation of the neighborhood where people were dis placed now they come out on record and said that you know something happened at the manufacturer changed a spec or something that you know was the reason for it but if you're working with product across the street from my house you better be up the up the par what you're working with cuz that's a problem if you're going to be burning down the neighborhood just saying there was also another fire in 2022 in April where we had to they Clos off the street we couldn't get to the house it wasn't a chemical fire from what I understand it was something to do with their contractors but again another significant fire right across the street from my house now it was another time where we had children in the house and I couldn't get back to the home because the Maple Shade police had to lock down the neighborhood because of a pipe bomb threat sent it around their group I don't have any kind of I don't know why I don't what year that was but there was some some issues with you know working across the street from this PE from this group to begin with I'm not saying it's a standard but we already have [Music] problem uh sorry I have a handful of things that I'd like to continue with take your time I appreciate it thank you and and thank you for your time tonight too I really do appreciate that and I and I would like to say in all and a clear conscience stonehart did invite uh my neighbors and I over to explain their plans and we did talk about and explain to them also that we weren't big fans of this uh this this construction project but we do appreciate the fact that they offered to you know talk to us before this this session all right okay so let's talk about that first time they they brought over so one we compromised and they t down that house that was across the street my buffer that I had to begin with that's gone they made a lot of promises that we made reference to and I know that we said that we're going to try to get past that and look to the future you know what you know the fact that they didn't come across um their promises on the Landscaping supposed to be all sorts of Shrubbery between the two of our facilities that we're supposed to hide the fact that what was going on and you know make it very palatable for us to live with that never happened when we brought it to their attention it never got addressed so it's you know it's a bad precedent that to say the least but that's just one thing that was promised the other thing is the fact that that parking lot across the street was only supposed to be used for parking two doors were put in they were not supposed to be open not supposed to be used and I'll talk about how they are open matter of fact if you went out there today you'd see one is propped open part of our F initial agreement was that they were to use the door only to get in and out of the space from their warehouse to the cars and that door would stay shut it's on that wall that they extended that thing's propped open all the time now there's also a garage door that they put in there that during Renovations not too long ago that whole parking lot was used to house I don't know if it was racking or p and all sorts of building materials or something I'm not sure about you know other materials but I think there was also a portapotty type thing or something out there for months that i' sat out there while we had to live with the look of that the uh construction of I think they're working on the roof that construction caused us issues the whole time I can only imagine what it's going to cost us when they go try to build over further something more significant so we know that they're using the parking lot for things other than parking for their people that if you look across the street from my house tonight you leave there's a truck a commercial truck parked across the street in their parking lot across from my house that was never discussed we never decided that you know that was supposed to be just for their employees not for their commercial vehicles but if you look right now there's a some kind of rental truck that they use the move material just park there and it's there a lot this this group promised a lot to begin with and they didn't come through in their promises the first time now you know fool me once shame on you fool me twice I got a problem right it's on you and that's an issue you guys do your best you can but you guys weren't part of the zoning board when that stuff was approved the first time you guys might not be here in another year you know some of you going to leave and this gentleman here you were talking about him going by looking at stuff a year from now that's going to happen not that he doesn't want to cuz he's got maybe he's got free time I don't know but the fact of the matter is nobody here has the ability to hold this group to what they're planning to do long term you might mean to but it just not going to happen and we've already compromised and seen that this group didn't do what they should have done the first time just saying that now bear with me for a second let's talk sound I have a beautiful house across the street I got a variance from this team I built my own front porch 501 East Park Avenue it's a beautiful Greenhouse with a nice wraparound front porch it's beautiful I love sitting out there my son lives in the uh the room above the front porch that faces ston hard when they built the the expansion we never talked about exhaust B fans being put up on the top of that that new exp that new buildout I don't know if they built put two in at some point after they built that back or three but let me tell you those fans were not only loud but they're obnoxious they they run 20 they were running 24/7 even when the group wasn't in the damn building and it's you can't use his windows as a result he's on the second floor you can see the fans from the second floor so when you're talking about moving that property line over and building more fans it's going to get louder I know you got a gentleman here that's an expert in sound I'm an expert in sound I hear it all the time when you're your air conditioning goes on you hear that squeal well that used to go off all the time and it was loud it's gotten better I will say I don't know if they change the equipment maybe maybe they they put new belts on I have no idea and I don't know about their testing because I don't know when it was tested I don't know if they were running the damn things when they were testing or anything but I will tell you it's much quieter at night in Maple Shade by 73 at night than it is during the day so I'm there 24/7 I hear it at 9 10 11:00 at night there's not that much there's not as much traffic on 73 and if you get later there's even less but you know what you can count on at one point in time you count on their fans running 24 hours a day shaking the house you can feel the vibrations you can hear the darn fans it was very irritating we went to the township building and complained about it I don't I don't think anything ever got done about it I don't mean to be rude by pointing but Mrs Miss Valentino brought up the fact that there's materials being stored on site and we were told it's about 3 days worth now I don't know what three days worth of materials means how many tons of product or what kind of product that is I'm assuming it's polymers not just sand so when you're making a two-part epoxy I would imagine there's chemicals involved and I don't know what two or three days worth of materials means in terms of mass now now when you're talking about expanding the the footprint that means you're going to be bringing even more material in so just saying that you have two or three days now doesn't mean you're going to have two or three days worth more then you I would expand I would imagine the expansion would mean you're bringing over more and we don't know what that means two or three days to me is I don't know what that is that a bucket is that 15 pallets is that 17 truckloads I have no idea so I think there's some more we could you know kind of Vex that out a little bit I'm sure this group can probably provide some kind of detail about their days on hand coverage as well as what they're using in any given day when we went over and talked to them about things like uh what their current situation is they said stuff like you know we can't guarantee that we won't be a 24hour facility right now they're two shifts and that's fantastic but somewhere down the line doesn't mean that their business model won't change and they won't be Three Chefs seven days a week because they were three shifts at one point when I was living across the street from them and they're right they don't work every Sunday but there were plenty of times when they were working every Sunday and that could go that could change again this group's not guaranteeing anything because and even if they did you can't trust it for what it's worth because they guaranteed a bunch of stuff the first time we were in front of you in front of the zoning board and it didn't happen so things like hours of operation employee headcounts parking situations that that's all fine and good what they say right now because that might be honest and true but if their business model changes you darn right well they're going to be working 24 hours a day seven days a week if they have the if they need the uh the production to support their business that's just a fact and I I don't think any of us are Gable enough to think that that won't happen all right Jesus Christ Kelly I'm sure I'm forgetting something what did I forget all right real quick and I just want to make one last point we we talked about sidewalks let's talk sidewalks I don't care for sidewalks on in Maple Shade one way or the other there's plenty of houses here without sidewalks it's funny that um the last gentleman speaking for stonard said that they didn't want to put a sidewalk in closest to the to the manufacturing side of the building but they want to my my house houses on the manufacturing side of the building you're expanding closer to my house with that so if it's not good enough you know you don't want to put a sidewalk there but you're willing to compromise my house what's that say about this plan when we're talking about stuff that's moving in the in the facility it's not just storage they're putting across the street but they'll have forklifts moving forklifts make noise I hear it all the time it's not I hear it all the time and there's a parking lot buffer I'm definitely going to hear it a lot more if you bring that stuff closer to the street it's a fact I really could use the help here I'm really hoping you guys look at out we the the neighbors that came to their meeting on site when they offered us you know dinner and explained their plans we were all against it now I can't speak to them I don't can't go on record as saying that now because they should be here them damn themselves but here I am but the fact is we're not we're not we've argued against this in the past this is already a compromise this team has not kept their promises to us to to date and I don't see any reason why we should go in agreement thinking that they're going to keep their promises going forward I hope you guys see it my way and we we take this and take this offline and knock this out of the park and not approve it appreciate your time Mr don't go away address some things for you first first of all if this board approves an application and puts conditions on that application because Maple Shade is a community where we are blended with commercial industrial and residential property that's the way we're built MH so what we try to do is accommodate both sides Y and our approvals normally have a number of conditions on it but this board is not an enforcement board meaning that we set it up to be enforced but some other agency has to enforce it maybe doesn't have a full-time enforcement officer so things like that happen and I I'll just if I if you don't mind I'll just quickly address that as as you it's a great Point um we are we are a blended community and we've already Blended so this is already a compromise for us so we've lost that buffer we've agreed to that 20 years ago so to blend further is just kind of abusive at this point and to your point you don't have a a policing uh entity to kind of make sure this continues all we have is their word that they're going to do right by us and they've shown you already that they haven't done right by us so you're actually making my argument easier because we you guys could say hey there's all these stipulations but there's nobody going to keep this this this group's feet to the fire I can't do it because they it's not going to it's not going to let it's not going to take hold so I can complain to them but that's not going to that's not going to do me any good and you know in the meantime I got to live with a bad neighbor and don't get me wrong you know they're not the worst thing on earth I don't want to see them shrivel up and die but on the same note I don't want them any closer to my house than we already are we've compromised enough this group has gotten you know has has gotten the benefit of being my neighbor where where we are we're good at where we are right now the other thing is earlier you said that in 1993 uh there was a house there do you mean that they expanded from where they were and took that house property because 1993 to now is only 31 years so they've been in business for 60 agreed so yeah I didn't say 93 and I only been there since 96 and there was a house there when I was there now were they there in in '96 was stonehart there yes they were on the other side of that house now let me say this since we brought it up my understanding was the people that owned that house had passed away before I had moved in and they had been they told their children not to sell the house to stonehart who had been evidently trying to purchase that parcel of land for some time for expansion they didn't like stonehart from my my neighbors have all said you could take that for what it's worth but we can't take that I understand but I'll just say it anyway news Bo agre along has nothing to do with our agreed I'm just trying to show light that there might be a history here with stonehart in the neighborhood I have nothing to do with that you can enter into our decision understood what happened to the house that was there they tore it down okay and let me let me one last thing a lot of the trees that you see there today that you drove by those trees were there when that house was there so when we're saying that they were woeful in their plannings that's an understatement very few if anything went in there so I mean for what it's worth and I don't know what the other boards required I I guess there's a there's some kind of paper you guys are looking at from the old thing that they had yeah and I could tell you that you know I noticed that it never happened but you know so thank you for your testimony stay right there okay do any of the board members have any comments I have a question you said you were displaced how long were you displaced I was not displaced the neighborhood was I wasn't there it was a year before I got there yeah you don't know how long days hours I think it was at least a day okay so uh yeah my neighbors were all moved they had to move out for I think overnight anyway okay and do you know how do we know how far the penson creek is from across the highway across the highway so it's it's across the highway is it over 500 ft yeah closer to 500 I can say not over but closer to 500 ft okay so it is far property line uh ston heart property line at the age of the roadway from the route 73 if we consider there is a say 120 ft wide Road or 50 ft wide Road and there after there is the municipal lot there's another 200 or 150 ft wide so it is not less than 500 but it is very closer to the 500 I say okay at one point it is closer to the 500 okay and uh if board member wants to know more history about 1996 and 1995 or three I have something in my mind if you want to listen I can say if you don't want it up to you guys can you be quick I mean you can't you can't set us up like that stonard with mystery then we don't hear stonard in the beginning it was only in this area in this area you can it was in the beginning only in this area in 1993 or 94 they plan for the expansion up to where they are proposing now at that time there was was uh this particular property was under the Ali Zone and is true I don't have any previous fact about the residences but his testimony is a witness that there was a residences in this area those all residences have been removed and they propose the expansion up to where they are proposing now at that time there was a variance require requirement for industrial building or industrial use should be at a 100 ft away from The residen Residency District so they been not approved and denied at one point for 3 35,000 some change Square ft then they came back again with the board for some 29,000 Square ft and leaving the 100 ft set back from the resident district mean Center Line of the park to the current building is at 100 ft right now and now they want to again occupy the same they propos in 1996 this is the history and this is what he want to explain those approvals were they planning board uh it was approved because I don't remember it before z i I have resolution with me so I can tell you right away no problem well P bulk variances obviously would go to the plan part site plan so it wasn't approved it was a a use that was permitted pretty it was handled by a planning Bo yeah would be the plan so set requirement for 100 ft was not met so that's why they came back again with a satisfying the set requirement of 100 from the resent District okay any comments from the board members that U part of the plan is that if I heard it correct they got to build a 12T wall and also a higher be burm and more planting that ease your concerns at all having that wall there and the planting it it's actually going to so if you think about that wall that that wall is whatever how many I don't know it's 12T or my house I I'm I have a twostory so that actually hurts me my second floor you're actually bringing that closer to the windows of my second floor so we're already ver like it does that actually is not is a detriment to me if that makes any sense anything else Mr Malloy thank you appreciate everyone's time and thanks for listening to me thank you Allan I would like you to take a chance and address some of the things that Mr mloy has brought to your attention I think that Mr Malloy indicated that he moved into this area in 1996 stonehart was already there so when you buy a house next to Industrial Park you have to expect there's going to be some impact from the industrial park and that's the decision he made to move in we did be we did go before the planning board and it was approved there was comments from the neighbors the biggest comment there was the you know the impact from the parking lot and I think what Mr Malloy is forgetting is that you know our plan is to mitigate the sounds that are being generated from the existing parking lot which is the starting of the cars people opening their Windows conversations opening closing doors so we think that we've actually are benefiting the residents by getting rid of that that that just natural noise that would come from a parking lot and putting in a building that will have less noise yes the old the older fans were louder but I think Jeff beam testified that I think it was in the last year we've replaced those rooftops and Mr McCoy even said those rooftop fans are a lot quieter and now we're going to put in similar and less they're only going to be one and a half horsepowers but we've heard testimony from our sound expert that the sounds that'll be generated from the new rooftop of mechanical equipment are only going to be 45 to 50 DB which is no louder than a lawn mower or other things you would see outside or residential air conditioner so the sounds are are not going to be any different than you would find in a normal residence there's no evidence that we're we have any type of spill into the the creek the the creek which is all the way across 73 there's no discharge of that um as far as fans run 24 hours a day now excuse me do the fans run 24 hours a day Jeff will come up M Jeff I mean I wouldn't yeah this is not air condition this is just a a circulation of air it's an exhaust van yeah there are exhaust Vans and there's also makeup air units so makeup air there are exhaust fans on the roof which pulls the air out of the building and there's makeup air units on the roof too which um during the during the winter um they're used to heat the air that we pull back into the building um so that's what's on the roof so they are around 24 hours a day then they typically have been yes um we did speak with um with the neighbors when we met with them and said that U we can look at um turning them off um when we leave second shift and turning them on when we get there in the morning because you're saying it's like who wants to hear a lawn mem at night absolutely but but there are smaller units on on the uh addition than there are on the on the main building as well so smaller going be closer to his house they will be closer absolutely the yeah but the that was why we brought the sound expert in to show that with the new proposal even being closer the sound of these units in the front yard will be no greater than what you would nor normally hear on a laow or or just things that normally happen however we also heard that the Ambient sound from rout 73 is in the in the 50s and my and and and I think and I'll have them come up that's going to mass so the sounds coming from the traffic will probably mask the sound of 40 DB you're going to hear from these fans if they're running now these fans only need when there's occupy the building at night when there's less people they're not necessarily they they're they're going to be on but they don't run 24 hours it's only when you have to circulate the air we heard about what the sound was is there any sound deflection that can be used I've been on Route 73 at 11 12:00 at night and there's no cars there right I mean right so it can have the same sound 73 at night as during the day it's just 73 is yeah no matter what your studies machines you just have to be a person and stand there to know that it's not it's less noisy at night during day sure and and so our measurements do indicate the measure the measurement location that was closer to 73 that does get quieter at the at the night time we're farther set back in the more stringent criteria that we're looking at that's in the 50s um one thing I think that can be helpful about the these exhaust fans is that they're much quieter than I think anybody's considering so just try to give a reference here um if you're standing 5et away from these exhaust fans the manufacturer of the equipment says it'll be 66 DBA so you're standing on the roof 5et away from that to put that into perspective a lawn mower at 100 feet is about this this the same amount of sound so we are talking what do we have about 70 ft to to the property line and even farther to the house there's like quite the distance from these fans which are starting out to be already really quiet and I think that was the intent was to select These Quiet fans from the manufacturer to try to not disturb the neighbors as much but can your survey tell me what that man's going to hear out his window that is saying the fans 100 150 ft away what is that we had asked that and I don't think they said they did the study I gu well no this is important can you compare present day to Future and I and I would like if I could offer a couple things to the board one is post construction sound studies I do it all the time with warehouses and and it's something it's a condition you can impose on any application uh exhaust fans you know when they get quieter when you spend more money just like when you go to Home Depot there's the loud one there's The Quiet One it's a matter of money and I think that may be the case here again I'm not a mechanical engineer but money makes the sounds go away uh turning off the units Jeff you had mentioned that when we had the site plan review Advisory board meeting I think turning the units off that's a great idea if you can do that and I know there's heat build up you don't have air conditioning in this but but if you can do that we can we can do that and that can be a condition of the approval what time would that stop what is your second shift I don't know about 11:00 about 11:00 so I don't know if that assists in aiding the neighborhood um and you can do that uh with an automatic setup yes we can the other thing is as you do get closer to the residential homes warehouses any kind of commercial buildings they're not typically well insulated inside there could be some sound B in or some apparatus an extra again money money makes things quiet um goes to life too but uh um some kind of baffling system inside some insulation it may not be a lot of effort again I'm not spending their money I'm just explaining to you that when you hit a wall yeah it vibrates it's like a drum right U but if you can baffle that maybe that would assist the neighbors or the neighborhood and and I don't know if it's a major Tech task but post construction the fans you can buy a quieter fan you can always buy a quieter fan I guess uh turning the fans off and uh looking at doing something maybe inside but the modeling that we heard about I'm not going to ever question your modeling we all use models storm water models but then what really happens right what really happens and I think that's what we heard from our resident right that you know well that's not exactly what it is okay it's called uh value engineering I I love value engineering well we decided that you know we're going to save $1,000 doll on the fans so we get the different fans that's how life works that's how I'm building a municipal building somewhere right now we value engineered $7 million out of it it's not what everyone was thinking it was going to be U but there are the things you have to be cautious to and that's why I said maybe the post construction modeling or we'll compare the modeling to the reality I just that's it I just wanted to offer that to what I hear here is that we're having a work session but we're at a decision meeting so how how do you address Mr Malloy right with something concise enough to say that what we say does address it and not that we're just talking about it well I think there would be conditions of the approval what what conditions they're going to turn each us Mr kingsberry is okay go what we heard is turning the exhaust fans off at 11:00 p.m. if that's the end of the second shift uh we would request that they maybe find fans that have a lower DBA want lower decb if we can they're there they cost more money that's how again that's how things work um we can make a condition of approval that there be a post construction survey 3 months 6 months what Christmas receive whatever you want to do you can make that condition on the board and then if there's something maybe even the architect through architectural you can always put baffling listen you go into a new facility that has nothing it's all hard Services it's horrible right you hang something and it's is there anything is there any rooftop baffling well that goes to the quieting of the fans more money a different different different manufacturer different you know Allan how do we resolve this well I I think that the fact that we offered to turn the fans off 11:00 p.m. I mean I don't know what more you want the fans aren't running why do we have to baffle why do we have to put these other things if we turn them off then there's the sound we also and I think I think that's really important is that we're removing the parking lot if you turn us down that parking lot remains so all the noise from the parking lot's going to stay I think that's a big plus what do you say you how many minute the car comes and park into the parking lot and leave the parking space the fan runs 24 hours throughout the night say night 10:00 to early 6:00 8 hours fan is running and the parking lot lot utilization for the vehicle is 5 minute to park and 5 minute to exit the parking lot so it is compare the difference between the 10 minute and 8 hours you are diminishing the parking lot no sounds but at the same time the fan is coming closer to the building that is his arent but we we've agreed to have it shut down at 11:00 p.m. so I think that's his concern was during I think during the evenings if you instead of shutting down if you remove any installation of fans into the new building and you will accommodate all exorts and internal circulation from a old building that satisfy the requirement or the concerns of the residents so don't propose any I I cannot say I cannot ask you to don't propose but if you find your engineering can find certain ways to bring all the exits and air conditioning units into the old building nothing on the rooftop will be installed in a new building that suffice or satisfies his concern I I don't know that is impossible for engineering post engineering is the without fact Bo is delivering the decision without so for engineering is not a criteria for the board board need a fact you we we can explore some sound deadening we can see if we can put some baffling around the fans on the rooftop in addition to the green to turn it off and then we can explore putting something internally on the walls to try to baffle I don't know if the sound inside the building is really getting out I was more concerned about the sound from the rooftop fans but I mean we can certainly explore some type of sound barrier around the fans as well have to be on the roof one person go ahe do the fans have to be on the roof can they come out the far side of the building instead I don't know I don't know the answer to that not a mechanical engineer I mean you're still I didn't close the public portion of the meeting you'll be called again I I you I mean I think if we're telling you if the sound expert says that the sounds are only going to be 40 d which is not very loud I mean we're talking about your your your residential air conditioner coming on it's louder than that it would actually Mass this but if we're saying we're going to turn them off at 11 so there's no sound at night and we're going to try to put a sound barrier I think that's a reasonable accommodation now remember all due respect he bought his house knowing that he's across the stre from an industrial building I know but now it's going to be closer to but but but but we're we're we're but we're mitigating it the all we got rid of the old we got rid of the old fans that he was complaining about and he's the testimony from him was since we put the new fans in they're quieter and we're going to goir advance well I don't I don't want you pointing at the resident what I'm saying is that I want to make a point that testimony was that that we have mitigated maybe some testimony like the debes of the existing fan is X the fan that you were going to install you plan to install to tell us it's going to be quieter is y and then we've made the suggestion that maybe you could look at a different fan that has a z right but we need some quantitative numbers is the existing fan 65 but I hear when this goes on and it squeaks and I know that's with the resident we all hear that but that's been fixed correct Jeffy that's all been fixed fans are quieter is there a way to have a quieter fan to they go from from 50 to 40 to 30 I again I'm not the mechanical engineer but can you give us some numbers that you can reduce it by 20 DB or or something along that line so we actually have something that when you do the post if that becomes a condition the post uh acoustical or sound analysis that you can meet that yeah absolutely so a sound barrier can do drastic reductions to the sound levels in the order of 10 to 15 DB you can put it around the three sides of the fan and it's acoustically absorptive on the inside face to really drastically reduce this fan so you can start from a quiet fan you're going to put screening up around this anyway visually so instead of using a visual screen you can use an acoustical screen which costs money sure but that's another way to reduce the levels of the sound from the fans so the quantify it because this is a decision meeting not a workshop what would you say that all of those efforts that you just described could reduce the deviation that's an extremely complicated question for a what would be the target a 3D model I think the the target is the the noise ordinance that's quantifiable from the state is where we come from from numbers and Acoustics so you know we're showing that we're below the the target from the state at nighttime but in addition to that we could get another at least 10 DB of reduction and be even lower than the state's requirements from these walls or from different fan selection reduction would take you down to what so we're in the neighborhood of I don't know 45 and maybe we can go down to 35 I mean there's no way you're going to hear it at that point because we're going to be masked by the be in conditioned so if the motion contained information that I would let Mr Kingsbury and Fred formula that said that you were going to do those things baffling etc etc to take the dbas down to the neighborhood of 35 35 to 37 say would that be something that is reasonable it wouldn't be measurable on site in the post construction testing because the ambient condition is going to be louder than that but a model could predict it modeling good would be okay as long as I we have the specs on that sure okay so post construction test modeling showing that EBAs are down to 35 37 reasonable seems reasonable yes I mean that's that's uh under the assumption that the fans you're purchasing have a DBA of 45 and no high and because then your screens bring it down to approximately 10 so you can't put in fans higher than 45 and I think the testimony was that but you got it extrapolate because the fans from the building are further away as it goes further away they come down these fans are going to be closer so I'm saying the new fans if our Target is 3537 then the spe specification from the manufacturer that you're purchasing the new fans from cannot be higher than 45 no that I I think that's the fair 45 if you're standing next to the fan but if you go all the way to the house which is we're over 200 ft away then the sound comes down so we don't need to be 45 on the roof we just need to be 35 at the resident's house but I think you bring up a good point the roof noise is from the manufacturer specifications right and I you bring up a good point the fans right now on the rooftop 5T away are 66 66 correct but because we have all this distance you get said it's like 75t right you get but 75t versus 5T is is drastically difference in terms of sound so but what you're saying is I I think is a good point you're putting in a specification for the fan that needs to be selected correct and so that that specification from this analysis is 66 uh sorry uh 74 DBA at 5T 74 and you said standing next to a Lao is 85 standing next to a lawn mower is in the neighborhood of around 90 around 90 so and and this is 76 so that's still pretty loud right but we have I know Lao was down the street for me I I could hear them in the morning and that's more than 75 ft away and when you have two of them so you have sound two fans now you have two fans next to each other so I think you probably want to shoot to purchase fans with lower than a 75 DBA I I think the intent should be a prediction at the property line with a specification for the fan itself it's a combination of the two because it's not specification for the fan baffling to take that specification down further and then a post construction measurement to the properties yeah I caution because I don't know what the industry is in terms of the DBS of the fans I think the objective is making sure that the 35 D is at the residential's house so we're willing to put the sound barrier around to get it down and then you have to see what it is by the time it reaches the residence so we we've been committed to try to get to 35 deible not on the rooftop but at the residence see but what I'm saying is I mean that's our Target but once you put in a fan two fans and you put the sound baffling uh then it's too late then you take the measurement you say oh sorry it's over 37 you can't go backwards you have to do it before uh you put it in I won't be able to measure that low of sound level at the site for what that's worth so it's this is all going to be model based because we're talking lower than the ambient condition but what you wanted what you want your model to show is the prediction at the property line so we're showing predictions at the second floor window that's where you want that sound level to be to be met we want to factor in all of the environmental conditions because at the end of the day who cares how loud it is on the roof it's important how loud it is at the affected residential property so that's you're going to factor in all that you need to do with regard to the purchase of the fan the baffling of it so that when you do your modeling to the Second Story window you're 35 correct so we we model it from how loud the fan is from the manufacturer we build the wall that is going to be on the construction drawings on in the model we build the building we import all of the housing from Google Earth and all the terrain and we come up with a prediction at at the window correct you're talking about at the property lawn or somewhere else that's up to you our report both story window is what we heard sure our report both predicted at the property line at the first floor window and at the second floor window do we know how far that is from where your proposed new building is going to be to his house I don't have corner right I don't have that number uh in front of me so we' have to Jeff what about the third shift no we have we have no plans for a third shift we probably couldn't hire enough people to staff we can't hire enough people now to St our was on the approval for if it is approved that there would not be a third shift you would have to come back to the board to get that you okay with that yes so we addressed the sound we addressed the third shift what about the parking on Pine I know it's convenient for some people and what about the commercial vehicles that are on Pine um we can certainly limit our employees from parking on Pine if that's a requirement I would think the commercial vehicles would be that's the most important that's the most important so when you have contractors coming there they they to report to somebody that somebody has to make sure where they're parked absolutely and we can do that it's I'm yeah I can't say I can recall my my office window is is on Pine I can't recall us having many commercial vehicles on Pine Street and you will talk to your truck drivers to stay off the city roads and go right out to the highway if the man saying he sees your truck trucks driving they they do they do sometimes come in Styles along Broadway right on railroad tracks it is a truck grout yes it is yeah they do not drive anywhere on the other streets park or anything because I know Park's not a truck no they do not okay you can't live from so that'll be a part of any approval too that the vehicles that you use for your shuttling back and forth will use Route 73 and will not use the internal roads of Maple Shade you okay with okay I think yeah we'll have to go up to Styles and turn around and come in what I guess is John you mention Park the one ramp to Lo yeah that entry Offa 73 is 73 South it would be 73 South so how do you get from Cherry Hill to 70 to 73 South off rim you if they go buy it yes you'd have to turn around stop they don't typically do that come back they usually they they do often come in no Maine to styles to Broadway to Pine to Loop which is a truck route by tops yeah right across front of Thompson L okay all right gentlemen if you would go back into your public seats Mr Malloy had his hand in the air one more time I haven't closed the public portion of the meeting Mr Mallo you heard a lot of compromises talking about here I did thank you all right I'm going to try to make this quick uh address a couple things that we that were said up here uh while I patiently waited um yes I did move where I did and I understand where I moved I moved across the street from a house that was later torn down and expanded over and let me say again that was a compromise so I I know that I where I moved when I moved here because it was across from a residential house um that said there was a discussion about the the noise affecting my house and maybe because I don't have enough insulation or something like that oh no no no wait wait wait wait and I don't mean I'm not I didn't take it as an attack no we oh okay cuz I sorry sorry I didn't I'm not and again I didn't take that as an attack either that's a fair point like if my house which was built in the 20s we didn't no that was I just want to finish I just want to finish the thought just so you know where I'm coming from but I also want to finish the meeting I want to get done to it it only take a second let's not talk about a thing that didn't happen Okay okay just that my house is rebuilt and fully insulated with the best Windows you could probably buy on the market when we're talking about noise and 73 in ambient noise 73 is I don't know 200 ft or so away from my house I'm one of the out of the three across the street from this project I'm the furthest from 73 not only is it about 200 ft I don't know the exact amount but it's down it's actually it's a there's an incline so it's not not right across the street at window level 73 is not right across the street at window level so that running there's a noise to it but it actually shakes the house you could feel it when it's running all right I'm I'm done you know knocking that point across I appreciate you guys doing real quick there was talk about possibly pulling air in from another source not close to me instead if you're going to if need to run air into a facility that you're building pull it from Pine pull it from Loop Road closer to Eastern Lift Truck they're not there 24/7 I am there 24/7 so Pull It in from somewhere else vent that air in from another part of the building you don't have to be across the street from me and run the fans across the street from me coming from another spot and I know this isn't supposed to be a working session but I'm hoping that that we can you know maybe maybe we need to have another meeting I don't know but okay we'll leave that day um what's the definition of a third shift we're not going to we're not going to have an official third shift but I have two people coming in a couple times a week There's no definition right now this group says they're not running the third shift and I believe them but I've seen them run a third shift before I've seen them run weekends it's a business model these guys are in business Mr if they had an occasional third shift or an occas worker would you be objecting to that well no not necessarily but I let's talk about occas third shift I see it yeah I agree I agree but if conditions happen for exception processing right you got to allow for that I can allow for lots of stuff but but we already allow for a lot of stuff so we're I'm asking you are you are you instructing the board that your position is you don't want them at after 11:00 anytime at all they already work after 11:00 I don't necessarily care when they work I care that the fan runs 24/7 and the fact that this group's telling you that they're going to turn it off at 11 address your third shift okay and I'm and I'm trying to just say they can tell you what they want but they're going to run that fan when they want when they have one person there or no one there we we've discussed the [Music] okay all right and I just want to say I'm up here for more than just noise issues right we're talking about product people Machinery closer to my house running right now it's just two shifts but it could be more CU they could come to you and get a variance and be a third shift right is that what we're saying if they want to go ask one that doesn't mean they would get one well I'm just saying it could happen right so we could let them build now we weren't expecting that but in the future we could let them run three shifts we might say that yes to that as well we could only deal with what's I understand I understand I'm not trying to beat you up that's not my intention but I'm saying things change what I'm saying to you things happen so future has things in it that we don't know about today but if they wanted to do it they would have to come back yes they would and they're back already they already they already wanted to do this and we told them no and we are compromised and now we're back today and where we might say yes so it's not unheard of with that history that we can come back in another couple years and they run three Shi allowed to come back modify their position and they come back with a different position absolutely and that's and that's that's a fact of life and I'm arguing against that now so if they run three shifts now it doesn't affect me so much cuz they're a parking lot away that's what I'm saying so when they come when you when we give this when we approve this because it feels like that's where we're going I don't know I don't I know I know but if we approve it then I should expect to come back in a couple years when they want to I can't say that either I know you can't and I'm not look I'm saying you just said things change yeah here we are but I'm just arguing against this change they hit the lottery and move to Florida you don't want to be in Florida right now that is terrible terrible St all right go go somewhere ni I don't want to go there either I love Maple Shade it's the garden Utopia of South Jersey and I like my my neighbors where they are so and I don't have and again I don't hate stonehart all right let's not let's not I'm not villainizing this group in some ways I like them but I don't like them closer to me I think they're right where they need to be there's enough buffer there we've compromised where we're at I hope we keep them to that compromise thank you Mr thank you guys okay it is just before 10:30 ordinarily I would give you a chance to give a summary before I ask the board for a vote could you take two or three minutes in that summary do you want to vote Yes okay um I think that we've made some concessions to try to mitigate reasonable conditions we mitigated the sound we mitigated the Aesthetics we've reduced the parking lot I think we've gone an extra yard I know he doesn't like he wants to control his neighbors that's not how it works um we're willing to make sure that the sound on his property line is reduced to something way below that would even be a residential air conditioner and so I think these are all reasonable steps and I think you know we ask that you approve our application thank you Al okay board members there's six of us here Allan wants to take a chance on a vote so we need the first vote you need to take is whether or not to Grant a use variance everything else hang hangs on that uh are you going to Grant a use VAR to allow them to expand with the new Warehouse manufacturing building does that does that vote have all the qualifications on it that you've been taking notes on no it does not that just allows for the expansion the next vote will be on the site plan what you approve or don't approve and it needs five yeses pass both votes pardon me both votes need five no just the first use variance the other vote needs a majority so we have been instructed that there needs to be a motion with regard to the use variant if the motion is to approve it it requires five votes if the motion is to deny it it only requires four votes no you take a vote if you get if you don't get five votes the motion fails you only need one vote well the first motion could be denied right well you need a motion to approve a use variance and then you see how many votes it gets okay is there a motion I'll make a motion and your motion is to approve motion by Karen ready to approve the use variance is there a second the chair cannot make a motion or second a motion chair can yeah no that's our internal rule is that I don't do it oh that's it may be an internal rule but it's not a land use requirement that is a Richard Michaelson rule okay well he's a lawyer so he must be he must be right again I'm looking for a second is there a second you have 120 days to make a decision I'll second L Lou Valentino seconds the motion roll call please J against join mimer dis approve no say it again yes or no no no no Lou Valentino approved John jardy approved K and R approved John G approved you have four years to no how many votes did he get I thought it was 51 i 4 42 oh okay all right well that makes that means that the motion use for is not granted so the site plan issues are remot so we're done this phase and I will prepare a resolution or adoption at the next meeting chairman I use the before the next thing yeah I I had to go I've had to go possible I would like to have the people who voted no to put their reasons on the record voted no to do what put their reasons on the record no I prepare a resolution and they either approve it or deny it they don't have to put their reasons on the record yeah the next one right we're going to take a f minute break for those that need to use the restroom e e e e e e e e e e e e gentlemen let me just say I'm sorry that you were sitting in those seats as long as you had to no problem Mr chairman that was a test tested our backs that's for sure in those seats would no we appreciate that it's you know it's you never know how it's going to play out I knew it would be long I did not think it would go that in fact I thought there would be more hands in the in the general public making it long one yeah but when I only saw two I said oh this could go quick yeah sure did not cuz they had a neighborhood meeting it sounded like yeah yeah we just say yes and get this over with yes yes okay okay we should should we have before us no 287-289 73 South 91 lot one H 73 realy LLC application number zba 24-5 Zone Business Development BD existing use vacant retail paint store propos use self storage building application D1 use and preliminary and final site plan approval six members here I understand Mr chairman good evening Mr chairman members of the board for the record Larry calling on behalf of the applicant Mr chairman members we'll be brief for several reasons mainly the hour of the night I appreciate you hearing us this late we're going to try to keep it as lean as we can I will frame out in 60 seconds or less what brings us here and which Witnesses you'll hear from this evening in a moment um we're going to have two witnesses tonight so it's relatively lean application is straightforward there's some relief we'll get that to that testimony we'll answer all your questions I think we can get our Direct on in about 20 minutes or less Mr chairman we'll answer all your questions of course but I think our two witnesses can probably get through and 10 to 12 minutes each give or take um and I realize there's six members I might need a moment to confer with my client before deliberation to make sure they want to go to a vote this evening given it only six and we've got D relief but with that said Mr chairman and members and please if I'm speaking too fast just just let me know um so for the record the property is also in the BD property I know the board's familiar with it your last application was a BD site this is about 1.75 Acres fronting on Route 73 South important to know this site's been dormant it's been dark for about 10 years there's been nothing on the site for about 10 years we're flanked by a quick surve restaurant on one side gas station um not much happening on this site The Proposal is a self storage facility use it's two structures our engineer will speak to it shortly it's three story structure and then it's a single story structure with parking around Self Storage you'll hear from our planner it's a pretty good use from this perspective because it's going to modernize the look of the property here right now it's pretty dilapidated it needs a resurrection pretty badly this site the applicant's going to put up this well-appointed Self Storage use which is a low traffic generator and it's perfect for our budding uses behind us which is not a similar use to lesser intense use residential buffer behind us so we think that this fits very neatly here very well here we've had the opportunity to meet with your consultants and I think a few board members at the tech meetings leading up to this so this wasn't a back of a napkin application or plan drawn this went through several several months of plan drafting revisions considerations from your engineers find recommendations as to what we could do to implement things better and further men menow engineering has endeavored to do that um so we think we have a very nice clean application but not withstanding that like I said we've got D relief there's some limited bulk relief some conditions in fact are getting better Mr Mr Marinelli will testify to those shortly um I know it's a very high level Mr chairman but with that if there are no questions of me as we get started what I like to do is I know you want to go through completeness first um so relatively perfunctory I think on this one and and and and Sir you'll correct me if I'm wrong and Mr Marinelli can offer some profit before we qualify him I think there's three items sought for waiver all were recommended by your office um page three of the latest report I think it's August 29th I'm sorry October 1st 2024 revision so we're seeking three items from waivers all of which are recommended by your engineer we would rest on that unless you would like further testimony from us as to why and supporting that Mr chairman and members Mr chairman I would recommend it be deemed complete thank you okay Mr chairman fine to proceed with our engineer our first of two witnesses very good so we call we thank you we'll call Mike Marinelli of menow engineering he the scrier of record of the civil engineering plans Mike would you everyone who's going to testify please raise your right hand perfect you swear or affirm the testimony you give tonight will be the truth all truth nothing but truth St you got I do do mik please state your name display your last name for the record Michael Marinelli m a r i n e l i uh you have a business card I do while you're looking for that Mike a very brief wer you're you're a licensed civil engineer in a state of New Jersey your license is current in good standing that's correct you've testified before boards in the state of New Jersey and you do so on a regular basis yes and you're the author of these plans uh or at least the co-author of these plans that before the board that's correct accept it thank you Mr chairman Mr Mike I'll let you run with the existing and proposed conditions if you will so first uh exhibit I have on the easel I I assume on Mark is exhibit A1 please Mike and if you could identify it for the record sure it's entitled Emer 30 uh 73 realy LLC existing conditions exhibit dated 109 2024 as you can see it's an uh an AAL representation of the site its existing conditions the highlighted black line is the outline of the property so it's irregular in shape it's almost l in shape uh unfortunately now North is kind of on an angle here it's almost to the to the lower left of of the site but so we are we are on the southbound side of 773 between Region Avenue which is an access way to the uh Village of Stony Run uh as uh Mr K said we're kind of sandwich between other commercial sites including the um the Taco Bell and KFC to immediately toward North and and the Exxon gas station I bought gas at earlier this evening uh immediately to our South as you know Route 73 is high commercial a high commercial area uh on both sides uh but immediately to our West is the village of Stony Run uh apartment complex uh you can see it just at the top of what is exhibit A1 uh the lot is designated as block 191 lot one in on the tax maps of the township properties commonly known as 2817 and 2819 State Route 73 uh Route 73 is a state highway under the jurisdiction of the njd uh the property has existing access points it shares actually an access point uh with the uh restaurants immediately tour North uh there's a oneway entrance on the on the southerly side of our site and then there's a two-way driveway that connects uh in the L Southern portion of the site into the region Region Avenue existing RightWay overall the pro property is approximately 1.75 acres and is located within the BD or Business Development Zone uh as you can see the site is developed in the existing condition it's pretty much paved uh a majority of it um there is a two-story portion of the building on the North side uh where this the paint store sipper I believe it was at one point uh used to be and then there's a a series of other retail commercials on the southern side of the building that's an existing one-story uh structure uh but as I said you can see a majority of the site is uh developed in the ex existing condition it's paved almost edge to edge and actually when we came in for uh review committee meeting uh it was powerered that you know because the the use that we're proposing is very light and doesn't need a lot of parking that we could eliminate a lot of the existing parking in the existing condition there's near 60 parking spaces uh on site so we could eliminate some of those and add additional buffering so in order to show you that proposal I will now Mark into evidence exhibit A2 Mike if you could identify for the record sure this is entitled Emer 73 realy LLC site plan exhibit dated 109 2024 this is a a slightly blown up version of of this site plan uh with the same aerrow background uh that you see here with the proposal highlighted and the landscaped and lighting turned on for the board's uh view um the darker shaded area it on the north side is the existing structure okay um so what what we're proposing this evening and I'll give you some some hard numbers just so everybody is um clear the existing building that darker shed area is roughly uh 13,267 square feet okay what we're proposing is to add an addition in the existing and if I refer quickly to A1 uh there's existing sidewalk and pavement along the front of the existing structure to extend that building structure rure uh towards uh the route 73 Frontage um to add an additional 2320 Square F feet in addition to that extension the applicant is also proposing to go vertically so at the end of at the end of the development it would be a three story 40 foot structure okay including three three stories of uh self storage now this is going to be a very modern internal Self Storage type structure okay uh each each floor is 15587 so the total square footage within the storage facility is 64,66 square ft um if you if you look at the the plans what we're proposing is a an office area in the north northeast corner of the structure that will face Route 73 uh with available Ada accessible parking and some additional parking spaces along the common access drive that spoke of earlier uh with um Taco Bell immediately for our North so the way the the way this particular facility works I know that the municipality has a bunch of uh um storage facilities in town right this this building isn't going to be the where there's garages everywhere the the buildings proposed have a a single garage door access on the Southeast corner of the of the building okay and three mandor uh that patrons who are utilizing the self storage facility will have access to stairwells that can bring them up and down the stairs where the garage door is we've conveniently located uh just opposite that door the elevators so should you have larger you know couches or you know things that you need an elevator rather than carrying boxes up and downstairs they would easily be able to utilize now you'll note that there's white striping on both the Southern and uh Western sides of the building those are our loading areas right it's ample space for vehicles who are coming to the site to be able to pull their car over to the side unload car and or van uh load and unload and have access to again on the three corners there are existing man doors and then a large overhead door for larger equipment with access to internally to a an elevator uh there is other access you'll see on the northeast corner that of course is the double door that goes into the the office area of the of the facility where most of the sales and registration uh and custodians uh reside uh as far as circulation goes that there is a we're maintaining but narrowing significantly the one-way entrance in there is a key card gate that is on the Southeast corner of the building uh and again that'll allow people to utilize that southern side of the site for loading and unloading uh we're also closing a second second actuated uh gate on the northwest corner of the building the one that we share with the uh restaurants to the north uh where they people would have access to that area as well the existing driveway that that connected into Region Avenue it was requested by your professionals to realign that so it was more more of a better circulation uh but that is going to be an emergency access only it won't be something that's saturated and patrons will actually use to to utilize the site uh but it will be there in case there's an emergency vehicle or a fire truck for instance uh has to come to the site they'll EAS easily be able to exit out that emergency uh eress gate uh this fence that I'm talking about and the actuated fencing is proposed as a six a six foot high uh RW iron type you know ornate fencing that you would see at most um South storage facilities uh we are asking for fance relief which I'll get for the fence within the front yards which I'll get to shortly uh what I didn't mention is we're also proposing a second uh structure and that's located on the the L portion Southern portion of the site uh totaling 2800 square ft that is more typical of the garage door type type style uh Self Storage uh that that would be proposed in this area right now we're proposing 10 doors but that can be that can vary based off of you know how big the units that people would want to uh to lease in that area um to go back to the larger building this is a like a state-of-the-art climate controlled you know self storage facility again with very little action outside of the building not many garage doors uh and and access to elevators to be able to use the upper floors the operations itself includes only four employees they'll have two part-time employees two full-time employees who who will work work the office uh during the hours of 9:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. 7 days a week okay so it's basically two shifts uh during during regular business hours the storage facility however will be open at 7: a.m. so people who already have key card access or punch code access will be able to utilize the existing Gates and access the site uh as early as 7: am. and 10 p.m. uh that's important because of this the local sound ordinances right we're we're proposing a use that is only during the 7:00 a.m. to 10: p.m. um hours where the the the Sound Ordinance is less stringent uh as far as security goes uh the they propose motion sensor lighting both inside and outside the building uh as well as cameras internal and external of course people are coming going regularly and they want to be able to monitor those people uh the employees of course would be mon monitoring it from uh inside the office area uh as I said there's P pads to get in the gates uh but each individual Locker would be uh would have an individual lock owned by the the um the person who's renting the the the space there um the I know the question gets asked all the time so I'll try to nip it at the but nip it in the butt with respect to what's being stored here right they have a very detailed lease uh that would not not permit that there be any storage of flammable materials or liquids in sight on site uh no hazardous matal as well there will be no work permitted within any of the structures so no manufacturing will be happening in any of these rooms or any nobody can have office space within any of these these storage facil facilities now'll be written directly into every lease that is signed by anybody uh who would be utilizing this facility of course the the building will also be sprinklered uh with fire protection uh so in the in the case of a fire uh this building will in fact be protected both building I'm sorry the actually are you I'm sorry i' have to defer I know that the main building is sprinkled but is the garage sprinkled also yes yes so both buildings will be will be sprinkled uh what we're proposing is 10 total I'm sorry 14 total parking spaces where only 10 is required for a facility of this uh size in nature uh as I said a majority of the loading is on the uh West and southern side of the building VI that garage door and other man doors that I had spoken spoken of we had originally proposed uh a dumpster on site actually on the western side uh near where the existing enclosure is uh but it was is offered by your professionals and we agree with them that they tend to become nuisances in in this type of facility because when people are moving their stuff out they're like oh here's somewhere to throw all of our garbage and they become overflowed overflowed very quickly and are hard to manage because people coming and going are throwing as much of their garbage away in the dumpsters as possible so um recognizing that the office space is going to have some refu of course uh that would be handled in in over overhead bin containers that would be in internal to the building and picked up by private okay as far as uh garbage goes uh as you can see we're proposing sidewalks along all your frontages as is required by your ordinance as well as uh safe SA sidewalking grasses on both the North and uh Eastern side of the building uh the signage there is an existing pylon sign that's out there but if anybody's seen it it's not in the best of shape uh so what the applicant proposed is to basically replace it kind with something newer more effective internally lit uh on the we could just could you tell me if that is complying our it is yes yes it's a completely complying uh Pilon sign and there are two building mounted complying signs as well uh that are shown on the submitted architectural elevations than uh and then as I said we we're taking this opportunity also to beautify the site you'll see a lot of landscape special attention being paid to the residential side with uh large Evergreens we're buffering to our neighbor to the South the the gas station and there's a significant planting that's going along Route uh 73 in order to you know all the people that are passing by are sitting sitting waiting to get to the turnpike uh will have something much nicer to look at in the proposed condition to give you quick numbers we're proposing six shade trees four ornamentals 40 evergreen trees 184 shrubs and 412 ground plantings so it's a significant uh amount of plantings that'll help beautify the site from a lighting perspective we're proposing six pole mounted dark sky compliant LED fixtures that are mounted at 242t high and five wall mounted fixtures that will be mounted on the new proposed structure at 25 ft high that those those lights uh cast light to to provide A3 minimum and a 1ot candle average along along all the paved areas so the site is adequately lit for uh you know uh when when it gets dark at 5:00 in the winter time and the facility is still open till 10:00 there'll be adequate light there to be safe for any of the patients that may be using this the site now I think the ordinance requires uh when you're adjacent to a residential backside Shields that's kind of an old term that was used before for Led fixtures right now led fixtures have diodes in them and you cast them in the direction that you want them to cast so the fixtures that we Ed are are considered cut off fixtures where they only Cast Away from the residents and not toward not have any backsplash to the residents when you used have the old light bulb fixtures there there used to be that backsplash you don't have that same issue with the more current LED structure so although we're seeking relief for that it's it's really a nonissue as far as this application goes in my opinion uh from a St management perspective we're significantly reducing the amount of impervious coverage on site in fact we're reducing impervious coverage by 2740 ft uh and from a water quality perspective um it's really a 7,800 foot reduction in vehicular surface right because we're adding building and we're adding landscape and we're increasing the buffers which I'll speak about uh shortly in our in our relief request um so from a njd still more management BMP scenario because we're reducing the impervious coverage SL significantly we meet all the criteria that DP and BNP for water quality uh volume um groundwater recharge Etc uh and we've already received our SE SCS so the RO sediment control approval uh from that agency that also reviews St water matter um as far as existing non-conformances we have none that we're maintain maining uh there is one we are removing and that is impervious coverage in the existing condition uh there is an existing uh impervious coverage variants that we're removing since we're adding so much landscape to the the proposed project we do have several variances that I'd like to go through quickly uh the first being sidey yard setback of 12.5 ft with 30 is required that is uh the one story garage like structure on the southern part of the site um we're proposing that it it's 12.5 ft off of the the property line that abots the gas station you'll note on the aial though um there's a significant from the property line to the actual gas station facility there's an there's an existing buffer there in place already um and this structure is only 12 1/2 ft tall again it's more accessory structure like instead of a um commercial uh use um and the existing parking that's there and I refer to exhibit a one is only 10 ft off the property line in the existing condition so we're actually improving the buffer uh 2 and 1/2 ft uh in that area uh as I said we're asking for relief for a fence height uh again this is a security fence so we prefer to have it six feet but the ordinance will only all permit 4ot high fence in the front yard and that would be along both frontages we have a a fence along the Region Avenue Frontage uh as well as even though it's behind the building face it's technically uh uh by definition in the front yard for the access gates that are on the uh southwest corner of the of the proposed structure so we'd be SE we're seeking relief for that uh it was it was powerered by your uh professionals that the fence location on the south side or the Region Avenue be moved closer to the proposed structure and we we would of course oblig uh to provide more of a pulloff area off of Region Avenue should somebody come in there uh and have to actually open the gate and get in what's the fence fight you want six feet or four is permitted in the front yard okay the remainder of the fence along the the Western facade and then the back corner on the north northwest corner R 60 but that that's permitted in those areas it's only along the fronts that we uh secretly uh and then lastly the buffer uh 12 ft where 20 is required this is along the between the building and the gas station uh it's 2 and 1/2 ft in the existing condition we're increasing it to 12T uh where 20 foot 20t puffer is technically required again there's a mature there's mature vegetation in the northwest corner of the existing and we're supplementing that with some Evergreen plantings uh they're low more low-lying um in the front area just to block headlights uh and then a more stantial substantial buffer uh along that Northerly property line of the existing gas station those are the the the reliefs that we're requesting um I believe I covered most of what was required from Mr Turk's office in in testimony that he asked for in his letter but should I have missed anything I'd be happy to answer any additional questions Michael I have a couple questions uh you have access coming off of 73 at the southernly side of the building how do I get to the office if you well that that access would be used for people using the gate yeah the the access drive we have provided although we've stried it as a oneway is wide enough so should somebody come in that entrance and want to get to the office they would be permitted to do so it's wide enough in that area but we've we've channelized it so that the intention is to use um use the gates on that southwest corner and the second question has to do with the fact that that's a key access gate what is the distance between there and 73 for stacking 70 ft and what's your experience with well a box truck for a U-Haul Van for instance is 30 it's it's an su3 so you you you would be able to stack two box trucks in that location before anybody would stack on to 73 and the experience is uh so infrequent that that doesn't happen that's correct from a we had a traffic expert of course look at it uh and and Prov provide us a letter that the the uh Peak trip generation is only six Vehicles an hour uh you know it's a it's a very light light intense use uh Self Storage you have very few vehicles coming and going throughout the day in the peak hours it's insignificant the the municipal will not recognize the additional uh traffic and you know we we had talked about earlier how we think that this use is also convenient because of the the nearby residence you know you have Acres of of residential immed to the West here that would be able to utilize easily utilize this facility for their needs uh back to the access uh you said that you could turn right and go to the office is the angle of that turn uh facilitating that right or is it it does not uh should the board feel that we should uh make that tur movement easier of course we would oblig with a with a softer radius there but is the entrance not yeah the main entrance is to the north here right where you have complete access to all the the 14 spaces I spoke to on the north side of the building uh and if you come in that entrance you you also have access to that side gate well when you gave your presentation you said the access is here oh I'm sorry and I didn't I didn't know that the access was on the other side so there's two there's two accesses off of 20 uh 73 okay uh there it's a shared access though so this you that's how you get to the office has here you you use that to get to both office and the rear gate and it's probably it's anticipated that most will use that unless people are specifically trying to get to the the garage door I would defer a friend say if somebody did come in the southernly entrance and they wanted to get back to the office should that curb cut or that that uh Shrubbery be facilitate that we take a look at it you're talking about for a truck single unit truck whatever vehicle comes in that location my thought it's uh I wouldn't a UL type truck shouldn't be able to make it right there they would have to go straight and continue and they're probably not going to the office anyway the U-Haul truck where where's the sign the pylon sign it's it's immediately it's at that driveway so drive I wouldn't anticipate so there'll be no signage on that other that other entrance okay again it's just an easier way for Vans to be able to come in and so people who have already been to the office and know they're coming they have a u a unit already in rental and they can easily come in here park in the gore area and utilize that overhead door I it just looks like an awkward turn to turn right if you wanted to go right be an awkward turn again we could work with Mr Turk's office and and do do some turning movements uh that can demonstrate and soften that curb as necessary okay could do if this board voted favorably we can add internal directional signage on site with the right turn being for you know pass vehicle's only office off you know so so as to not confuse a truck I don't think your you know average person driving that truck once is going to want to make that right turn anyway they're naturally going to want to go soft enough I didn't think about the truck I thought about somebody just stopping at the office yeah like a passenger vehicle yeah yeah that would be easier to yeah they they would a passenger vehicle can make that turn without much concern it's more the the truck that would be concerned okay Michael's at it that's it questions for the board um you spoke about employee uh what did you say four employes is that any security what type of security well they would be in charge of security they're not necessarily you know armed officers uh they they're more office workers they saw an assault I mean it's got to be video cameras right yes both inside and outside so if they were to see an assault or something they would just call for 91 they wouldn't actively participate in no that's not the intention probably not WIS you do that anyway any given day depends how you yeah so I have a couple questions you're you're not demolishing the existing building we're not no we're utilizing do you have anything that's I mean I see a square there do you have any renderings of what this building is going to look like yeah I think they were provided in the package the elevations were filed we brought a color with us tonight so we can mark it but the elevation plans were I just can't see you can make this look nice yeah I've seen that building no I understand I've seen no way you can make this look nice so I apologize of the coloring we we decided tonight that you may want to see this so we're up to I believe a A3 A3 mik uh this is the architectural drawings that were submitted from redwoods design studio uh entitled exterior elevation colorized uh and they are colorized a colorized exhibit of the proposed structure uh what we've shown is the two main facades the uh Eastern which faces Ru 73 all right you'll notice the office area there's a lot of high SL clear glass to make it apparent that that's where the the main office office area is uh storefront obviously on the front with the doors facing uh 73 the bottom portion roughly 17 and almost 18 ft uh will be done in a in a brick pattern uh and with a stucko the remainder up to the top of the parit which is at 40 ft uh it's it's intended to be a yellowish color uh per the the applicants request uh for uh they're calling a Guardian Storage uh you'll see there's copings to break up the monotony right if this were a 40ft structure that was you know 100t long and it was all solid color and all uh it would it would be not visually appealing so they've added some relief with adding both vertical and horizontal lines uh through the use of coping uh you'll also note that every uh 20 ft or so there are 1 in reliefs within the stco in order to kind of break up that that facad as well I'm still I'm still I don't see where the old building starts and the new one begins like are you engulfing this building yes we're we're we're building on top of it basically but are you using the side walls of the build are you completely engulfing the building because I don't I just don't know how you're going to blend this in with the old building yeah the exterior walls will be re reconstructed it'll be engulfed within the new building and you have a interior floor plan on this yeah which was also filed we could walk you through the Flor so like it's a g yeah it's nothing too exciting or sexy about yeah I was but but because the question up so I'll talk about briefly so you'll see in this lower right corner it's the same orientation as our site ples this is the office area there's a break room and a couple bathrooms sales area for uh that you know shipping supplies and and boxes things of that nature uh there is internal access to the rest of the facility so the uh workers there will have access to get into the back uh this is the the first of the Mand doors again it's St access to get up and down there it it the entry level the great changes in the existing condition so this this platform is a little bit up in order to get down to the first floor you'll actually have to go down uh down a couple steps uh sprinkers and electric rooms are located in this corner and the man door directly east of that uh and then the large um loading door or overhead door is immediately across from the um the elevator uh and then on the the most southern Southeastern corner there's another manand door that again has access to stairs now the exist the existing structure and this is why like the front facade has gone completely because that that existing structure is only 20 ft in which is roughly the the stairwell uh as drawn across the this the bottom edge of this page that'll be where the existing front facade is today but a lot of that is window and storefront and clear so there there's nothing really to stay save there structurally right so that front facade uh is all coming out and the new fa side is going to be built roughly 20 ft and I'll refer to 2 real quickly again so this wall will be coming down that has the the the jut out walls as well uh and that'll be extended this 20t towards Route 73 so you'll tell me I won't know that that Serpentine serpentines paints was over there it will it will be a solid completely uniform structure with uh 17 ft of where's your handicap accessibility they're immediately adjacent to the office space so all of the parking is on the north side of the building so there is a a ramp access that comes to the corner here and then they have direct access to the front door how would a handicapped person use the facility would they have to go into the office if you I refer back to the floor plan cuz you said that back door come the front no they would come in the front door and utilize this or the loading dock is accurate so they would be able to utilize that as well there's not technically a handicapped parking space there but anybody who is disabled would be able to utilize that access but you provided enough handicap parking on the other side yes um this side of the building where you're showing parking spaces what's on that side of the building is a storage unit oh it's solid wall yeah it's solid wall they have to walk around that is the second elevation I didn't cover specifically but it it it's there are no access points on that North Side they have to walk around to the front of the building to get in or the back yes that's correct and you said you did a traffic study you you provided that letter to yes there was a traffic it wasn't done by my office but a consultant had provided that if by traffic engineering consultant they've also been dealing with do which has only issued a few requests not related to the use that's right or the intensity related to some design criteria in curbing things like that our initial review for Access permit only had three comments so we're very close to receiving final probably have more questions but they're probably related to you so I'll wait the traffic study said six trips per hour and I don't have it with me so I don't want yeah I think I believe my recollection is it was six peak hour trips very minimal it say low we were talking the only lower driver we've ever seen your data center data center is the only driver of traffic has even less traffic there nobody goes to them the employees and there's only a handful and they're there all day we did a traffic study for a facility with 79,000 ft moristown uh sharshar Associates it was six trips in the uh am Peak 12 trips in the PM Peak and 13 trips on the weekend peak hour so and this this is somewhat smaller than that so I'll probably have a little bit less trip generation before you sit down Michael great very quickly I I thank I thank you very much working with the app the afan attorney my goodness we've gone through so many different letters uh he has hit everything I just wanted to touch on a couple things uh one was regarding landscape buffering of course that's sort of my thing uh there's some low Ling stuff that really isn't a buffer for four to six feet is really not much of a buffer I'm just asking that you work with us and some larger species especially along the gas station area uh as far as circulation we had mentioned the circulation just if you can demonstrate loading Emergency Services Vehicles just and any other movements that we want to talk about up front but I just want to see them demonstrated on a circulation plan if you could yes um dot you've already mentioned you're working with that affordable housing obligation that's really all I have they have addressed everything Michael's been fantastic to work with on this so we hear that before my wife every night good man okay Michael thank you thank you our second and Final witness with the Mr chairman our project planner we already swore you in so Jim if you would please state your name by your last name for the record and then we can go through your qualifications very quickly I don't think they're going to make me do that I don't think so either uh for the record James noer professional planner my licensees certification remain current and because of the late hour I'm going to go right to the uh the proofs I think Mike did a great job of explaining how the use operates and um I think the board's familiar with the surrounding land uses is basically accepted I was going to ask that Mr chair but just to Miller Light Miller life understood but basically it's it's a highway commercial area and you know loads across the street what have you so um terms of the positive criteria we have to show that this application Advanced purposes the municipal land use law and that the site is particularly suited for the use uh the purposes I would site would be purpos to encourage Municipal action to guide the appropriate use of development of all lands in the state and a matter public health safety G morals and general welfare purpose G to provide sufficient space and appropriate locations variety of agricultural residential recreational commercial and Industrial uses an open space for public and private according to the respective environmental requirements in order to meet the needs of all New Jersey citizens and purpose ey to provide a desirable visual environment through creative development techniques and good Civic design and Arrangement basically the first two uh purposes deal with the appropriate of the site and providing an appropriate mix of uses within the carer and purpose ey I think uh mainly is applicable because I think this is going to be a significant upgrade of the Aesthetics of this this location and also because you're going to get basically the Adaptive reuse of a building which has been uh bacen for a significant time there are C variances involved with this application uh thankfully poo V New Brunswick and price vedi allow the bulk variant is to be considered concurrently with the use variants you've heard me make that that proper on on other hearings but basically the uh the bulk standards that should be applied to a use that isn't otherwise permitted should be appropriate to the use rather than uh strictly enforced by uh the strict enforcement of the uh the bulk standards of the Zone itself uh the first series of reasons I think that the site is particularly suited is that the site has more than enough capacity to support the use uh the lot is 1.75 acres in a Zone where one the minimum lot size is an acre so it easily passes that and uh otherwise uh the only other impact is the parking impact it has 14 spaces and it's compliant with your code and also I think probably more than sufficient for this type of use typically uh Self Storage has somewhere between six and nine parking spaces so this one's a little bit uh overpark probably in some respects but more than suff to accommodate the parking demand of the use uh secondly um I think that the use has attributes that make it a good fit for this location uh it's uh you've already seen from our presentation that contemporary Self Storage centers have a a different AA if you will than the old ones with the garages and the and and the doors uh this isn't the only uh Storage Center of this type that I've worked on there's there's one going up in toown right now that's in front of the planning board for site plan approval has same kind of motif it's about three stories it's about 40t high and it's designed so it Blends in better with the surrounding uses it's heavily landscaped so it basically uh addresses a lot of the aesthetic problems that used to occur with the old-fashioned uh self storage facilities that were built years ago um and this is is is consistent with that Trend it's going to be an attractive building and it's also a location which is convenient to the road system and a lot of uh multif family uh uses where they're very dependent often on self storage facilities for their uh their their personal storage needs and finally uh this is an Adaptive reuse of the site itself uh the building that's there currently was has vacant for over 10 years and uh the township has been attempting to redevelop as much as they can along that corer uh that you've got Redevelopment planed for the area directly across the street this isn't within that Redevelopment plan but it's addressing some of the same needs that that Redevelopment plan was adopted to address so um for those reasons I believe the site is particularly suited for the use and that it does satisfy the positive Criterion Advance uh purposes Ag and I that I I cited earlier terms of the negative criteria uh there's two prongs of that the first is the pr the general welfare prong and that's usually a function of how the use would impact the surrounding neighborhood uh this surrounding neighborhood is basically a heavy commercial neighborhood with lows and and Auto Service uses along the Carter um this is again a very low impact use with low trip generation and low parking demand and and most of the activity is contained within the structure so uh given the character of the more intensive commercial uses that are characteristic of the of the corrier I believe that this use is fully um consistent with the that land use pattern and will not have any adverse impact on those and would satisfy the uh substantial welfare CR prong of the negative criteria under the balance of the reative criteria we have to show that we can reconcile the failure to include this use otherwise include this use within the BD District and also show that it will not substantially impair the intented purpose of the Zone plan and zoning ordinance and as I Was preparing for this this meeting I I looked at the uh the purpose of the BD Zone itself and I think that purpose really helps to reconcile this use with a failure otherwise included when that purpose says in part to take maximum Advantage economic advantages of the major highway Frontage of the township and I think this use accomplishes that objective uh by providing a use which is consistent with the character area and also by adaptively reusing a site which has been bacon for many years you're you're going to be able to uh make that a useful uh element within that that District once again it's also um I believe that it will not substantially impair the intended purpos of the Zone plan uh partly because it's a very low intensity use use with a low rate of visitation and it's also fully compatible with the neighboring uses there's a very substantial buffer between this and the residential Apartments to the uh I guess that would be to the uh the west and uh I think um that and the fact that it's going to reoccupy and replace the vacant building which with an occupied building uh I think those factors all help to reconcile the relief with the policies of the Zone plan and zoning ordinance uh I think it's a use which is a good fit with the area and especially in an area where you've got a lot of traffic have a low intensity a low trip generating use of this sort is I think an advantage to the district overall and as a consequence I don't think there's an impairment in tener purpose of the Zone plan I think it's a good fit with the location and would mer the board's approval very well done thank you that was quicker than the engineer yeah understanding the time that's no offense uh questions of the planner's report from board members BR anything no he's met all the criteria okay I have a question for the inter yes um I don't I I don't know who I would direct this to so I'm going to the ATT of course um have you has there been studies on the security um because you break into a facility and I'm not I don't know anything yeah yeah sure how does that how's this a facility like this what are the crime statistics on these facilities cuz it's an easy target it is once they get into the building they got 10 units they go they like just like the catalytic inverters they got a solo a grinder them locks come right off doors go up it's an open Candy Shop right so now does that let me let me finish is that considered one theft per unit because that's one victim so now if you have 10 units robbed now there's 10 10 victims what does that go to the crime stats how does that affect the crime statistics in this down so I would say and I don't know the statistics right obviously but I can tell you that you have multiple victims you have state V that defendant on behalf of you you you so it's multiple right it's in multiples I can tell you that I represent cubes smart right you know cubes smart they're a national self storage provider they're The Red Doors through the glass you seen they're all over the highways they're all over the country um this standard that this applicant is meeting is modern day standards so while not a national provider the modern day standards are key fobs to get in key access to get your vehicle into a certain point key fobs to get into the building there's Clos circuit television recording there's security systems it's monitored there's motion sensors so overnight when this locks down it locks down like your house does effectively if somebody comes in you're going to know first response is notified from the monitoring agency it's monitor 247 not just with cameras but again with alarms um motion so you don't see actual theft happening these facilities you don't and it's not a selling point it's a reality because the liability for them there is no liability to the town for a crime stack going up there's no blemish to a town for a crime stack going up the liability to a provider of this service is huge if somebody gets in it can get to personalty which has potentially immeasurable value and it's not necessarily capped by state law John do we know if people have been were there any breakings to the big storage unit right here on I believe there was I believe there was I I don't have that in front of me but I will say this you can't Zone against Crime right you know I I understand but my concern would be easy pickets I don't well that it's not that it's not I am so I'll tell you anecdotally very quick it's late hour I I do training with us Secret Service personally I am very big on self-defense personal defense you know being a hypers social awareness of things I've been training for decades right personally okay five everything I can tell you what easy tget targets are and soft targets are and or not a facility such as this is absolutely not a soft target take me at my word I'm not a witness but this is certainly not a soft On Target that that's all I can tell you sir okay I mean the house down the street for me was Robb they had cameras on everything they were in they were out boom smashing gra that's different that's 30 seconds that's in it out no they were under there for 15 minutes unlocked their motorcycle pushed it out on the street they had cameras monitors they just weren't home but the alarm there's no alarm they had an alarm alarm go to Central Station I don't I can't speak on that I know they have 3 minutes depending upon distance you are to a local squat so I mean you know crimes happen everywhere you know understand but I can tell you that that the one thing this is not is a soft target okay I have no other question and the alarm goes off and you know the police respond any other questions if before I Los my voice I'm going to open up this application to the general public is there anyone in the general public who would like to speak for against I'm going close the public portion I'm 8 may I have 30 seconds to confer with my client to confirm he would like the board to deliberate this evening since we have a shortage of membership sure on the date thank you sir back these chairs aren't exactly that probably more comfortable than that though they're better than those chair they so Mr I want to thank you again for your time tonight the applicant wants thank you for hanging in with us we would uh certainly U uh like the board to deliberate and vote and consider this application this evening if I may very briefly 20 seconds Mr chairman so I reminder first thing I said was this site has been dormant for a decade I want the board to remember that this site is not going to look any better tomorrow um if this application were not improved nothing else is coming to the site at the moment this is a highest and best use for the site for the applicant which is balanced against the interest of the town we think in a sense that it's a relatively innocuous use from a land use standpoint this is an incredibly low traffic gener there's almost no lower generators out there in commercial land use as we said except for a data center um it's providing a resurrection and a modernization to this site with a very very low intensity use a use that is needed in these communities where people certainly have more things they can have in their homes and there's high demand for self storage facilities this is a modern one it's aesthetically pleasing the building we went around the skin of the building for a decent amount of time tonight confirming that the existing structure will not be visible you're going to see a single unified box with this proposed design with brick and stucco it's pretty sharp looking um it's an all-around Improvement some of the existing conditions are being mitigated as you heard from our project engineer and our project planner and overall everything is kind of getting a lot better the building's looking better lighting is getting improved modernized shrubs are being installed and enhanced uh even post approval with the work with the board engineer storm water management controls and the like everything's getting better under the proposed conditions Mr chairman and members over the existing so we ask the board consider this application and again I want to thank you for your time I know it's quite late okay thank you thank you what was it used for last time I occupied sipper and then Tim on the other side yeah yeah okay and our estimate was about a decade ago that's what that's what our all right this is at least yeah this is an application that could be voted on one shot use variance with the bulk variances and sa approval uh contingent on compliance with the your engineer letter okay is there a motion to that effect but it does require five votes I make a motion okay Mr Z second Joan Joan Joanne Mor roll call please will J agree join Mortimer approve Lou Valentino approve John jard approved getting ready approved chairman G approve appr thank you very much folks we appreciate your time thanks have a good night folks what's left of it sorry you had to wait so long send me electronic copy of all all three exhibit electronic copy PDF of all you got it yeah I'll this certainly good Lu good luck thank you very much folks good night everybody good job too okay okay if I could find my agenda [Music] there we have a we have we need we have a resolution yes I can find it no one will be sorry Robert it that was you thank one resolution this is on the Jennifer Zimmerman application uh heard September 11 and the request to was for a approval that there was a pre-existing duplex use at 550 laurelon Avenue and the applicant submitted sufficient evidence to convince the board that it was used as a duplex uh back in the 1960s or I'm sorry 1970s uh and the board therefore determined that it was entitled to pre pre-existing certificate and that's it the eligible voters eligible voters karach Reeves Valentino beich zarnik Mortimer and ke is there a motion I'll make that motion motion second second roll call please second ready right second blue BL second John the motion out of eligible voters I have we have only four voters present in this meeting so I will announce only four voters join Mor approve L Valentino approv John jardy approved Gman G approved motion to Che the minutes from September 11 2024 by Mr ke seconded by Karen all in favor signifi by saying I I those oppos your voice made it through the night you made it thank you everyone uh law meeting uh kept you away from your homes appreciate it and just want to let you know no matter how we vote even though we may vote differently from each other we're voting each of us to what we think is the best room able sh so we should have to accept that I I will say that the first applicant should have had the second second applicant's attorney yeah he started fighting with our resident I'm like what are you doing fighting with our resident yeah he got a little nasty after