Okay. The December 10th, 2025 zoning board of adjustment meeting will now come to order. Please rise for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> This meeting has been advertised in accordance with the Open Public Meetings Act. >> Roll call, please. >> Frank Lazar, >> here.
Mike Stevens >> here. >> Beth Reeves. >> Dan McDonald >> here. >> Laura >> present. >> William Zarga >> present.
>> Joanne Mortimer Midian Babage >> here. Present >> Lou Valentino >> present. >> Councilman or >> Mr. Giddy >> present. Okay. We have two regular members, Karen
Rey and Joanne Mortimer absent tonight. So, alternate Dan McDonald and alternate Michael Stevens will be voting. All of us will be able to speak on the application.
New business 586 Route 38 East, block 189.01, 01 lots 3.03 and 3.05 finish line Auto Spa Auto Spa LLC application ZBA 25-13
zone business development existing use car wash and lube facility proposed use modifications to existing car wash and lube facility to install three pay kiosks and 14 vacuum stations.
application, variance relief, preliminary and final site plan approval. >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman. My name is Kevin Sheay and I'm an attorney with Parker McKay and we're the attorneys for the applicant Finish Line Autopot LLC.
Um, as you stated, it's block 18910.01, block 3.05. And >> I normally ask people to pull that mic towards them. In your case, just push it back a little bit. >> Mr. Turk told me to make sure I speak loud enough so get close enough to the mic. Tell me >> got a feedback on me. That's all.
>> As you need it, tell me to uh pull closer further back. Um so, as you said, the property is located in the BD zone. It's an existing uh loop and uh loop facility and um car wash um that has been closed for for a bit. Um there were
applications in 2020 and 2023 um to add uh pay kiosks and uh vacuums uh vacuums to the parking stalls which you approved and found that were not an expansion of the non-conforming use. Um what we're
doing proposing today is to retrofit the uh basically reoccupy the Valene. Doesn't really need it to be retrofit. Um but reoccupied and then retrofit the uh um car wash, add three kiosks and add 12 uh vacuum spaces where the parking
spaces are and provide eight uh regular parking spaces. Um it's our uh opinion that it this is not an expansion of the not forming use similar to what you had previously done before. So we ask you to find that. If you don't find that we'll ask for the D2
uh variance for the uh um for the expansion of non-conforming use. Um there's a handful of other variances. Uh C variances preliminary and final site plan with C variances for landscape buffer, trash enclosure setback, sideyard setback for the trash enclosure, sideyard setback for the
kiosks. Um building setback, which is an existing condition. Uh there's uh this property has an easement. There's a access from Route 38, the common driveway that's permitted by easement. There's also an easement that goes back
to 2004 to permit the parking stalls are for the car wash that are actually located on the adjoining lot 3.03. Um so there's no setback between where those parking uh spaces are located. Um so that requires a variance and then we're
asking for a variance for eight parking spaces and some drive aisle width variances. Uh with me tonight I have uh Salah Khan Singh who's uh representative of the applicant, Michael Ferry, a representative of Valene which will operate the um the oil facility, Jack
Gre the professional engineer from Penoni, Bethan Garaso a traffic engineer from Penoni and then Jim Miller who's a professional planner. So do you want to swear the ball in at the same time or as they come up? >> Let's do it all at the same time. Let us let us you uh treat your request that
this is not an expansion of a pre-existing non-conforming use. >> Can I uh suggest that the testimony all the testimony is probably relevant to that issue >> if are with your experts? >> Yeah, with if you I think in my opinion
if you hear all the testimony um you then uh can determine either it's an it's an expansion or it's not. And if it's not, just move right on to the uh to the D2 variance. Otherwise, it's going to get pretty >> choppy. You have >> anything on that? >> Yeah, I think the safest play here,
>> it's not a heavy lift, is that we look at the D2 of a pre pre-existing non-conforming and it's an expansion. So, >> is it pre-existing or is it there by virtue of a variance?
>> I don't know the answer to that, Mr. Kbury. It's existing. So >> I know it's existing, >> right? >> But I don't know whether it's existing by >> various mention. It is a nonconforming use. >> Yeah, it's a non-conforming use and they are making modifications throughout the site. >> Now the point I was making is there's a
difference between >> a pre-existing non-conforming use and and a non-conforming use which was granted a variance. >> I I for practical purposes, I don't think it makes that much difference. >> Right. I can tell you that in 2020 you
treated it as a uh found that it was not an expansion of the non-conforming use and in 2023 you did the same. >> Okay. >> So I'm assuming from that that it's pre-existing. >> Fred and Robert, can you weigh in on this without hearing
all the testimony with regard to this >> or is it necessary that we hear testimony? >> That's the applicant's choice. That's the >> Yeah, I I don't think it's going to change the testimony one way or the other to be honest with you, Mr. Chairman. If it did, I wouldn't want want to waste your time and and do it. But I think >> you wouldn't want to extend the meeting
on something that could be settled legally or by engineering. >> I don't think this will do that. >> If you let us just go forward at the end after you hear Mr. Miller, then >> witnesses forward and we'll swear them in and then we'll go from there. >> Right. Because we still need to hear the site plan and the C variances anyway. So >> plan I understand. Yes.
>> There's lawyer. >> That's the advantage. Everyone raise your right hand, please. >> Have to listen to me. >> We got more. >> Yes, >> we got more. >> The operations. >> Okay. >> They outnumber us. >> That was that was
>> You swear or affirm the testimony you give tonight will be the truth. Whole truth and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> You need them to state their names or you going to wait for them to be? >> Let's wait and see who he calls. >> Okay. Beth,
do you need these? Do you need a part? >> That's great. >> It makes it easier most times. >> Do you need the exhibitor? >> Yes. >> Bethanne Graasso >> hyphenated. >> Yeah, my mom did that to me. You know,
>> it's not on my driver's license or anything, but it is on my birth certificate. So, >> is that a portable bike work? >> Yes. >> Yes, it is. Yeah. Chairman, just in the effort to be as brief as possible, we had a meeting uh
Zoom meeting this morning. I spoke with the engineer yesterday and a few other times. They actually submitted since our letter was sent, they submitted another plan. They've really come full way around from when you and I first saw this site plan and they've
taken care of a lot of the items, the landscaping, the lighting, all those types of things. So, I think the focus tonight, which is what you're going to hear from Beth, is uh traffic and the queueing, our concerns with potential safety, and then we're going to hear about parking is really So, I think
that's the focus of this evening. They've done a great job with the landscaping. >> Yeah, the queuing is my concern after reading your letter. >> Right. Okay, >> that's why we're starting off the track. >> So, can you summarize your professional and educational experience to qualify you as an expert in traffic engineering?
>> Um, I have a bachelor's and master's degree from Drexen University in civil engineering. I am a division manager uh at this time at Penoni Associates. I have 19 uh employees under me uh that do various types of engineering. Um I'm a
licensed professional in state of New Jersey in good standings also Delaware and uh Pennsylvania. >> And you focus on traffic issues. >> Oh yeah, I've testified before the board. Yeah, that's the important thing. Before this board and probably 40 or 50 others >> we remember you tested.
>> Okay. So >> and accepted. >> Thank you very much. >> Oh, memorable. That's really nice. >> Bet. Did you prepare a wash queuing analysis date September 24, 2025 that was submitted with this application? >> Yes, I did. Can you summarize that? >> Okay. I just wanted to make sure
everybody knew where the location was. Um Chad will be talking about things other than traffic if necessary, but basically it's an existing facility. They're going to do some uh you know rework on the site and my uh testimony
today is going to be provided based on the new site plan and the Q analysis. Okay. >> Okay. So there'll be more details on specific spec specifics of the site. >> So we'll call that aerial A1, excuse me. >> Okay.
>> And we're going to call this A2. What is it then? >> This is the uh average uh Q vehicle Q exhibit average Saturday. >> Okay. >> Is that A2? >> Yes, please.
What do you want to call A2? >> Um average Saturday peak. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, uh going to give you a a little bit of um background information that is
operational too and you know you can substantiate that that was provided to us um for our analysis. So basically the car wash is about 100 ft long. Has 100 foot long tunnel. I'm going to break up my testimony into three locations. The
tunnel uh four actually uh the uh kiosks, the uh oil change facility and we'll briefly touch on uh the um vacuum station. Okay.
So, your average car wash, um, they expect to have between 250 and 350 cars a day. Um, that's I believe that's their model. And, um, the 350 would be more of those days that are like after a
snowstorm, you know, everything clears up, you've got salt on your car, they're going to go and run and get their car wash. Uh we looked at peak times and we know that Friday night uh based on the experience of the uh u the owners and based on um
uh some of the history Friday night and Saturdays tend to be the their busiest time. Okay. Now according to the manufacturer uh a 100 foot long uh tunnel can they have a rule of thumb that can handle one
car per foot of chain per hour. So they can if it's 100 feet they can handle 100 cars an hour. I will tell you that that 100 cars an hour is is pretty aggressive because they'd have to have everything turned up really really high and they don't run it at 100 an hour. We uh went
down to Big Sammy's car wash right down the street and we made some field observations and we found that a car goes into their particular facility. Now their tunnel is only like maybe 20 foot bunker than this one. So they're very similar size,
similar location. Uh one car per minute goes into their tunnel. That's all it takes. They pull up and they go in and the gentleman that that works here, he uh lines them up on the tracks and he sees what kind of car wash they're getting and he pushes the button so they
get the appropriate car wash. Okay, so that would mean that the tunnel can handle 60 cars an hour. So you have 100 cars, the manufacturer says 60 cars was our observation. And then we also look at the IT manual which is our trip
generation manual. The IT manual says that on the peak uh weekend which is Saturday they should receive 53 cars and on a weekday the peak would be 45 cars. So that's significantly lower than the
60 that we are looking at. So we basically took the 60 and did our analysis on that because that was conservative more than what the IT manual requires us to do. Okay. you'll see we have a lot of conservative things into this to make sure that everybody
understands and that we don't have cars out on 38 because that's not what what the the you know engineers have to you know consider the safety of the public. That's our job. So we have to be conservative and conservative to to make sure that uh you know these things
function like they're supposed to. Okay. So keep that 60 cars an hour in mind. Now we go down here and we look at the kiosks. There's three kiosks. The kiosks we also observed, but um one it
takes about one minute um for a car to go through the kiosk. Now with our observations they go. Here they are. >> Don't lose those. >> Huh? >> You don't want to lose those.
>> No. No. Uh we observed 20 transactions. We did it actually today just to double check. Uh we had done them before. So the average transaction time was 48.2 seconds. Now let me explain. There's three different ways to go through this pay station. One is by you're a member,
you got a card, you swipe it, you keep going, right? The other way, the next way is you use your credit card for a transaction and you pick what you want. And the third way is if you're paying cash. So, if you're coming through and you're a member already, takes 5 to 10
seconds to zip your card, push a button, and off you go. If you are using a credit card, we observe from between 37 and 197 seconds for a card to go through the kiosk because there's sometimes some
confusion. So, that is uh 74.8 seconds if you're using a credit card on average. And then there were two transactions where the customers had trouble. One guy was banging the touchcreen. He couldn't figure it out. Uh tendon had to come out and assist. And there was another one where somebody
was just scratching her head. He intended came out to assist. And that was uh 197 seconds and 137 seconds for um for an average of somewhere around 157.
Just Yeah. 157. >> Okay. Okay, so almost two minutes for those transactions. But if you take all that and average it, the credit cards and the the the memberships and the uh problems, uh you're looking at 49.8 seconds per transaction. So under a
minute. So at under a minute, that means each pay station can get 60 cars through it. 60* 3 is that means that this has a capacity of 120 if I'm doing my math right. 180 >> 180 Don't ask an engineer to do math in
their head. Um 180 cars can theoretically go through here. So now if you have a breakdown of one of one of the kiosks. Now you've got 120 cars that can go through. You're still good, right? Because you can you were only going to get 60 through the tunnel. Now
if we got two kiosks down, we are now down to 60. So guess what? We can get them through one of these khs to match the tunnel. Okay. All right. So, then we took a look at
>> this is the kiosk >> lane. One of those lanes that could back on 238. >> The kiosk lane. Um, >> how long is the kiosk lane? >> Oh, >> number of vehicles that you
>> 199 point something from what I measured today. >> Number of vehicles. What do you think? >> Um, I have that >> eight there. >> Okay. >> Can Can I go through this one? Absolutely. This is an average day. So, let me let me finish up with the average day. Then we're going to talk about the
worst case. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, um just explaining the parts again. So we look at the oil facility and basically uh based on the IT um our average daily
um based on the IT is five vehicles per hour. The capacity that we have is 16 vehicles per hour. So we have enough there are four four stations in here. Two and two. So let's say the first two people go
out, but these last two people are still being serviced. We can't fill up those first two. So we looked at the the case where that happens and we have storage for eight vehicles outside for the queue, which is more than enough uh spaces to take care of the five
vehicles that are coming in based on it. >> And and we're going to hear testimony from Valene on that to tell us what their average. Okay. >> Okay. Um the last thing is the uh
there's 12 the application requested more but there's 12 right >> uh vacuum stations and the vacuum stations are were observed to be between five and 10 minutes a piece. So with 12 vacuum stations, if you assume 10 minutes, that's six an hour times 10
times 12 spaces gives you 72 an hour that you can get through here, which is more than what's coming through >> the tunnel. So you have you everybody should be able to get to a vacuum space within a minute or two. >> And they're going to max maximize the
maximum amount of time they're going to allow at the vacuum is 10 minutes, >> right? Okay. Um, so now let's talk about the worst case. So this is kind of what you would see on an average day at any one time on
the site during the peak. Now you'll see less than that when we're off peak. So they can testify as to what is peak. Um, you know, this would be your every time you drove by it would look something like this. We just observed Big Sammy again today just to double check and we
know it's off season. Uh, It we're not right after snowstorm or anything, but they had nobody waiting. There was none of this queue. They were putting somebody in and somebody was checking in today. So, they'll be less sometimes when you drive by. Okay. Now,
this is the worst case. >> We're going to call that A3. And is that what is that? >> That is 95th percentile. 965 >> 95 >> 95 >> 95 >> Okay,
so the 95th percentile is basically big long calculation. It's actually poison's ratio. It's a differential equation, you know, advanced math kind of thing that
basically tells you, it works out when cars go in and cars go out what your curve looks like or what your probability is. And this is just a quick graphic of it so you could see it with the blue line being uh the percentage of cars that you can
expect. So if we go to this 95th percentile for the um car wash, we expect the 95th percentile is 23 cars on the property. That would
be in the tunnel. That'd be waiting to go in the tunnel. That would be all the way back through the kiosk and all the way back. This is where we would expect it to be. the end of the line at at the uh 95th percentile.
>> Beth, can I can I ask a question? Sure. >> What does 95th percentile mean to the board that >> Okay. >> we're talking about >> Okay. it it's a probability to say um we put in how many uh vehicles are generated through the IT manual and then
it does its formula based on that to basically say um to come up with the probability for say that next car like if you take a look at this the probability of having zero cars in line is 11%.
The probability of having five cars in line is 6%. The probability I'm sorry, wait a minute. Let me back this up. The probability is it it you add it. So you add 11% to 10%
to 9% to 8%. And seven and six. So to have five cars in line, you would have the total of that, which is 10, 20, 30, 40, 50% probability that you're going to
have at least five cars in line. Okay? And then you keep going. You keep adding up these little bits until you get to 95% chance of having and it comes up to be 23 cars. Do you follow me? Now to get that next
car, your chance of getting that next car, that 24th car is only 0.59%. 6%. So as you get the higher number, you have less chance of getting an additional car. You would normally fall under that curve. If you if you think of
it as as a curve >> and these standards are based on national recognition, >> I manual and uh standard traffic engineering practices and calculating cues. And is that going to be for a car wash? >> I'm talking about car wash.
>> Just the car, not the oil change, just the car wash. >> No, we have we have different probabilities for that. >> Are people going to just get vacuumed, use the vacuum? >> Potentially >> and not the car wash itself >> potentially. I mean, there is nothing
that is stopping a car from pulling in and just using the vacuum. >> That's what I wondered. >> Yeah. So these probabilities are they based on local competition at this site? >> This is uh purely mathematical based on
the IT manual which looks at the whole country as a whole. >> Yeah. But I'm talking this specific site not this country. For example, you mentioned a car wash down the street. >> Yeah. If something should happen that they bankrupt or the owner got sick,
they closed, that would significantly increase your numbers. >> This does not consider that there's another facility within. >> So you're not considering local competition. It's >> does not consider that. This is a standalone in the middle of nowhere. It doesn't even
>> So it doesn't re relate to the reality of this specific location. the effect of another car wash someplace else that closes down >> local competition >> does not affect this calculation. This is as if there's no competition.
The reason I say that is because the IT uh gathers information from the whole country. So they'll see um a car wash in New York City, they'll see one in De Moines, they'll see one in the middle of Montana. Okay? And what they do is they
collect lots and lots of data and then they come up with the averages by using these kinds of calculations and comparing them. So we wouldn't think somebody in in the middle of nowhere Wyoming would have as much traffic as like New York City >> or 173,
>> right? But what they do is they average the whole country and that's how the IT manual which is a standard works. So Beth, I've been holding this question back because I didn't want to disrupt you with what you wanted to do. >> Uh you're you're giving the theoretical
it. I don't know if you're the person to testify or someone else is, but what is Bubbles's experience? And do they have that experience in New Jersey? And the most important question
is okay what if you exceed all of it and all of their experience and there is backup what is bubbles going to do when they see that backup occurring to stop it >> okay >> that's what I need to know and I want
that in the resolution so that bubbles is in charge of backups >> okay yes >> we've had that discussion with the uh new operator Um so you can get reinforcement from them. Uh but
basically what we had suggested is if there's a problem here and all three kiosk go down they are providing a pad iPad or whatever to have the gentleman or lady who services this area to stand
there and check people in. Okay. If the tunnel breaks down, they're going to uh wave traffic by, put out their sign that says the car wash is closed because you can still get service to the to the
Valene Center, but the car wash will be will put out a sign that says that they are closed. There'll be some cones so that people don't get into this line. And these uh kiosks will have the gate opened up. So, if somebody does get in that line, they're going to just filter
around and go out. >> And the owners are going to testify to what you just said. >> Okay. And we're going to see what that sign looks like. >> Yeah. We'll get we'll submit essentially it will say wash closed. It'll be a temporary sign that says wash closed, >> right? >> Um in my mind, like an A-frame sign that
they can put out there >> and and even even if they put, you know, the sign out here, the people have already turned, they'll they'll be circulating through the site and going out safely. They're not. >> And that's what I want to hear in the testimony from the owner. Yes. >> Because that's going to be part of the resolution. >> I agree. I'm just a traffic engineer.
So, >> so just going back to the volume, you had said the three kioses could handle 180 cars an hour. The tunnel >> 7 180. Yeah. Yeah. >> 180. >> The tunnel could only handle 60 cars.
>> That's correct. >> So, that's three times more than the tunnel could handle. >> Yes. So if one of these kiosks go down, they're still okay. If two of these kiosks go down, they're still okay. >> What I'm saying is if you got 180 cars coming in and it could only handle 60 an
hour, >> you have in excess of >> What happens in the other one? >> Beth, can you speak to that's the capacity? What what are you expecting in a peak at a peak time? Yes. >> To come through in an hour. They're not the same, sir. >> Yeah. So that's what this is. This is
the worst case. So, uh remember we were talking about it, uh with uh the peak on the weekend being 53 cars and the weekday peak of 45 cars and we also talked about big Sammies
that they they basically have one a minute go through and we based our model on one per minute. So, we're conservative. We're saying 60 cars are coming in. It is saying less than that is coming in either 53 or uh 45. So if
the 60 cars come in and you're saying that people can't get through here. >> No, I'm saying you have more people coming through the kiosk. >> They can't because there'll be a backup. >> That's what I'm saying. There's going to be a backup. >> There'll be a backup on this side,
>> right? >> This side. Well, will will the right side of that kiosk handle the 120 cars? That's what Bill's question. >> It's not going to be 120 cars. It's going to be six 60 cars
at the at the max. You can do one one about one a minute through the kiosk, right? And one a minute through the wash. >> Okay. >> So, the first seven or eight are going to back up in that line and then every minute a car is going to move forward. and and the these people can't move
forward until people in front of them move forward, right? >> So, this capacity will go down when there's a backup here. >> So, if this is only handling 60, they're only going to let 60 through this kiosk. What we're saying is these kiosks can
handle the 60 cars. They can handle more than the 60 cars if they break down. >> If one breaks down, you can handle, >> but they're only people are going to sit here until there's an opening to move forward. So we're not passing 180 cars through this. >> Let Bill form his question for you. >> Yeah.
>> If they're sitting at the kioses because the koshes could handle three times more than the tunnel could handle, then the backup from the kioses would go back up into the entrance. >> No, because we don't have that many cars coming on the site.
>> What what they're I believe, Mr. Mr. Chairman, what they're trying to explain is that the standard, the national standard was 53 or 45. They're being conservative saying we're going to take 60 because we can process 60. They could have used 53. >> They're going to take 60, but they could handle 180.
>> Uh, no. The kiosk can perform at 180s. Typically, if you go to Big Sammies, the one lane is dedicated to card members or whatever you call it memberships. So, that would take them out of the loop for the normal group of people that are coming in. Then there there are problems. Trust me, that people need to
be there when the owner comes up or the operator. We're going to talk about where the personnel are, how many personnel they can process that many people the kiosk. So what they're trying to prove is that only 60 are coming in. And even if something fails, it's almost like a fail safe system they can get
through. They're trying to prove, and we've gone through this, that the kiosk is not going to be the thing that creates the backup. So that's just one item. They can accept almost 180. So the kiosk is not the bail. >> So even though the testimony is saying that they can handle 180, they're only
going to see 60. >> Correct. >> That's right. And that's we're being told that's >> 180 is what's confusing because then you're looking at that and saying, "Well, then they're going to back up at the kiosk." >> No, it was just trying to explain that the backup. >> So the key number is 60. >> Yes. Okay.
>> Yes. And we just have a higher capacity here should one of them break down. >> Right. >> That's that's >> so the 180 is really if somebody gets stuck in one of the kiosk, it can go to another one. >> And I've seen two kiosk break down at Savage. So
>> okay. >> Yeah. I mean it's machinery. It's electronic machinery out in the rain, you know. So you never know, right? >> I mean these are going to be the the latest technology and all that kind of stuff. It's not technology from 1950 or anything like that, but stuff happens. You know, >> before we move on, I want to make sure
Bill, you okay with what you were thinking of it? >> Yeah. So, what you're saying is even though you have a capacity of 180, you're only expecting 63 to 60. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> You're not expecting 180. >> No. Correct. >> Because if you did get 180, it would
shut the whole system down, >> right? >> Well, what would end up happening is >> it would back up to 73 if you got the turn. They would be turned away. You're right. Yes. >> They'd be turned away. There would be uh they could either come in and and turn around in the park in the the common driveway and go out or they would have
somebody just out there flagging them away. >> A normal day. A normal day you're going to see 250 cars is what's anticipated. So over 11 hours. >> Yeah. So you're not going to see >> you're not going to see 180 in. >> We don't expect it to happen. >> Right. And we're trying to be a little
more conservative than what the IT says because the IT says 53 and we're saying 60 based on just our observation and we wanted to be conservative. This this that they can pass 180 is ultra conservative. We're we're planning on two of these things breaking down. You
know what I mean? >> We're trying to show you that >> consider no cash. >> I'm sorry. >> Consider no cash. It probably creates more problems at the line because then if you have somebody with no cash >> with cash and not a card, >> you've got a problem. >> Yeah.
>> How do you get them out of line? >> Pass them by. >> Now, I will say there could be an extreme situation where this could be taxed and that's why we spoke about the person going out to the road, the person doing this, the tablet. So, we'll hear
about that, I think, from the operator is what >> I think that's important. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Because things happen, you know, >> and you got you got to remember all >> Yes, we understand. >> And you have to have a contingency plan. That's what we're looking for. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. So, we tried to look at all these
contingencies, you know, make sure that people can should the the car wash shut down, it's a rainy day, they're not going to have the car wash open. Does that mean some big bats not going to pull in and expect to get a car wash? Yeah. But all of these kiosks arms will be up and he'll go by. They'll go by and
they'll see it's closed here at the end. They'll keep going and pass pass out. You know what I mean? >> So, you gota you gota sometimes design for stupid. I would said that's one of the hardest things as an engineer is design for stupid. >> I use that all the time once a week and
a lot of times I don't know you can control or not where the vacuums are. People will come off the 38 and they'll enter there. I mean, a couple times I see this head on. I don't know. >> That's why there's a separate entrance
to the vacuums. >> This is >> No, it said you got a sign. It says exit only. Do not enter where where you have your vacuums. >> Yeah. >> If you're facing the car wash, it's on the left hand side. >> You're saying here that people are coming through and trying to get a car wash this way.
>> Come to use the vacuum, I believe. >> Right. So, we have two separate entrances for somebody to use the vacuum and somebody to use either the >> oil change. >> Right here. >> Okay. >> Over here. >> They come in here. You got a big sign
there as exit only. >> And they come in here. >> They come in here just instead. >> That's what I'm saying. >> Okay. This is a common driveway. So somebody coming on 38 would turn before this island, right, to get in here.
>> Mike, let everybody see what's going on. Okay. >> So they would have the opportunity to pull in to to this driveway to go. >> You're saying what they're supposed to be doing. I'm saying what they do. >> Okay. Are we talking about stupid again? >> Yes. >> Okay. Then I would agree with you
because anything can happen, >> Mike. But in theory, in theory, somebody just comes >> as long as you have direction that's obvious to people, even though those people who don't respond to obvious, >> right?
>> You you can't design against that, >> right? Well, there's there's a big area to turn around in here, too. Uh there's this is a large common driveway. If people come in and they decide not to hit either one of these entrances, then I mean, they can go up and pull out back
out again. There's room for them to pull out this common driveway. >> Okay. >> So, >> and and >> they won't be stuck >> with all that you provide. Somebody is not going to follow the direction. >> Could happen. >> Yeah. >> As long But as long as the direction is there,
>> it's obvious and it's common, >> then it's on them. It's not on. >> Correct. Okay. >> Correct. Okay. So, uh again, we were talking about the peak. So, let's talk about the peak here for the 95th percentile.
Um that would be again it 53 cars on the weekend and 45. So we did the 60 and based on that using our little spreadsheet here our 95th percentile
will be 23 vehicles >> on the site at one time >> on the site at one time for the car wash because we'll have other vehicles that are on site for uh the oil change facility. Now, some of these that we show in the queue might actually be over here getting vacuumed,
but we put them all in the queue to show you the worst case. >> Okay. >> Can you use the vacuum if you haven't accessed any other service? >> Yes. >> Yeah, that's what Mike was saying. People will come in and just use the
vacuum. >> Now, with the vacuum, there's 12 spaces. The average time is 5 to 10 minutes. We assume the worst 10 minutes. That's six per hour. * 12 that's 72 vehicles that can use the vacuum in an hour. So that's more than the 60 we're putting through
here. So if if our 60 go over here and use this in the same hour plus 12 more come in just to use the vacuum, we're fine. Plus there's you know some parking spaces or you know whatever else is necessary if they have to pull in
temporarily wait or whatever. But um basically the site handles it. So when we looked at those uh cars. We put one in the tunnel, one waiting. Uh we have some sitting along here. I think there's uh one, two, three, four, five, six,
seven, eight, nine before on this side of the kiosk. And the remainder of the 23, well 10 with the one in the tunnel. There's I guess 13 here. 1 2 3 9 10 11 12 13. That's the 23. And that's the
worst case. That's that 95th percentile, which is going to be hard. or the IT says it's it's the worst case. >> This looks like it's two lanes. Uh one for the oil, one for the car wash. Is
that true? >> Okay. And how many cars can you back up for the oil change? >> We can handle uh what we showed is we have four facilities inside, four places to change oil. We only showed two to be conservative because if the two are
let's say four come in, these first two are done and out. There's still two sitting here. So nobody else could come in during the peak hour. We should only have two in here and four waiting, but we have a queue of eight. We can handle we can handle eight. Okay.
>> So we have one for that. >> And he'll testify that his peak is eight. >> But again, conservative. So conservative, conservative, conservative, conservative.
>> Mr. Mr. Chairman, if I could, I'm not I don't want to provide testimony for the applicant, but in looking at the worst case scenario, uh there's even more leeway in here because the driveway is not backing out to the property line.
The the vehicles are queuing. >> We can handle two more here. We can put two more here. We can close this gap up. >> I was going to talk about that gap. They have a stop sign there or a stop bar to allow the Valvaline people to go through. Uh, in reality, I think the
cars will continue around and nudge each other up to the door of the wash, which adds another three or four. And I think when you start adding those, the conservatism of it gets a little more. So, now you're probably 30 vehicles. Um,
so that's why when I looked at this and we went through it, I just felt a little more comfort knowing that they were trying to be more cautious. So >> you could probably put three in the uh >> I I can see that it's conservative and I can see that it's the national average. My concern is that bubbles will testify
that they fall within that >> and should something happen to where >> you know >> they have a plan. >> They have a plan. That's >> they have a plan. Yeah. >> Are there any more questions on the >> questions for Beth?
>> I can come back up too if you need. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> No problem. >> So, I'm going to go out of my planned order because I know what you're interested in. So, >> can you pull that microphone up to yourself? >> Okay. Can you state your name and spell
your name for the record, please? Uh, Sulakan Singh. S U L A K H A N. Last name S I N G H. >> And what is your relationship? >> Robert, did you get that? >> No. >> Okay. >> You have a card, sir. >> Oh, yes, I do.
>> So much easier. >> You know what? Let's Yes. >> We can figure out what >> There you go, sir. >> Thank you. Mhm. >> So, Sulakan, um, what is your relationship to the applicant? Um, finish line auto spot.
>> Uh, I am the, uh, primary owner. >> All right. Can you I'm sorry. >> Mic closer. >> Yes, sir. I'm the, uh, auto property, sir. >> All right. And you're going to operate the the site, correct? >> Correct. >> All right. Can you talk about what happens when the um customers come into
the site? Um, they're going to pull into the driveway and they're going to pull up to the kiosks. Correct. >> Correct. And you're going to have an employee at the kiosk to help them. >> Correct. >> Okay. And how many employees will be at the kiosk? >> There will be one employee at the kiosk. >> All right. And what kind of payment
methods are you going to use at the kiosk? >> It's going to be a membership fast. It's called RFID tags. Uh also credit card payment and there be a cash also payment. And um you heard Beth testify
that um uh based on her research that it'll take an average of about a minute to go through. Is that consistent with what you your research as well? >> Correct. >> Okay. Um and after they pull up pull through the car wash um they're going to
pull up to the um entrance to the wash. Correct. >> Correct. >> All right. And they stay in their cars when they go through the wash. They don't get out. >> Correct. They don't. Yep. >> All right. And when you um when the employee when they pull up to the to the wash entrance, is there an employee there? >> Yes.
>> All right. And that employee does what? >> Uh that employee job is to uh bring the customer to the conveyor belt and uh depending on what package they purchase, he's going to press one of the three button either basic plan, medium plan or the platinum plan.
>> Do they prep the car at all? Do they spray it, wash it, scrub tires, anything like that? >> Nope. The employee will just use hand signal. Bring the employee along. We will have instruction there and he's going to see he's going to verify uh the car, what payment they paid and what
plan they uh package they take uh uh what package they got. And then based on there, he's going to press one of the three button. >> And Beth said that she would expect the car to take about a minute to get through that process and through the wa into the wash. Is that correct? >> That is correct.
>> Okay. Um when the c when the customers exit the car wash um are are they towashing at all? Are you pulling cars over on the side and towashing them? >> No, >> they just when they come out what do they do? >> When they come out uh they go straight
into the vacuum area if they choose to and uh they can vacuum themselves >> or they can and or they can exit. Correct. >> Okay. Um on a normal day, how many employees are you going to have on site? Uh normal day there's going to be two employees. >> Okay. And they're going to be at the
kiosk in the watch. >> Correct. >> Okay. On a busy day, you're going to add another one or two employees as needed. >> Correct. Correct. >> And on those busy days, those extra employees are going to be at the car wash, I'm sorry, at the vacuum area, making sure everything's going smooth
over there. >> Correct. >> And the other assisting with whatever needs to be done. >> Correct. Particular. Um you heard questions about what happens when there when the kiosks back up. Um and Beth had
mentioned that um if a kiosk is broken and there's cars coming through so that you need all three kiosk there will be somebody with a pad so that they can take payments. Um is that correct? >> Yes. So we will have a electronic uh tablets for the uh in case uh the
payment station goes down and the payment can be taken >> and you're always going to have an employee at that kiosk regardless. Right. >> Correct. And they be equipped with a walkie-talkie. So they can communicate with each other. All employee they be uh equipped with one of the uh walkie-talkie as well as we have a speaker system satellite. So in case
they need help they can call each other. >> All right. And so and if one of the kiosk is is completely down and that doesn't work you still have the two operating right. >> Correct. All right. Um, and if the car wash itself breaks down, right, so that the wash is good, nobody can enter, will
you put a sign that says wash closed out at the uh entrance so that cars don't come in? >> Yep, that is correct. >> All right. And and I think Beth said if if the um if cars do come in, the kiosk gates can be up and they can cycle through uh the facility without going
through the wash and without stopping and backing up. >> Yes. And you'll still have employees on site making sure that that's occurring. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um if the um on a peak day I'm assuming is your snow days, correct? >> Yes. >> All right. So the day after the snow or
you know whatever there's one or two days after that. Um in that case if you heard the board's concern about um what happens if there's more cars backed up at the kiosk going out the 38 so that cars can't come in. You said you're
gonna have extra employees on for those days because you will have known it snowed and you know you're gonna have >> Yes, that is correct. >> At that point, you can you could have somebody out at the um at 38 flagging not to come in wash closed or not to come in to prevent them from coming in.
>> That is correct. >> Okay. Um I don't know if I asked but hours of operation 8 to 7. >> 8 to 7. >> Okay. Um >> what are the hours? 8:00 a.m. till uh 7:00 p.m. >> 8 to 7.
>> Yes, sir. 7 days a week. >> Seven days a week. >> Seven days a week. >> Um I think uh deliveries. How do you get do do you uh deliveries of materials? Do you have people um I don't I don't know
what type of materials you would get delivered for your use. >> Yeah, it'd be uh kind of box truck uh used and uh maybe smaller vehicle. uh is a just a chemical supply that would comes uh once a week >> and they can park in the parking spaces that are on site or a typical truck.
>> Yeah, that is correct. Yep. >> Okay. >> Where do you store your chemicals? >> Uh there's going to be a storage area uh where all the chemicals going to be uh put it out used for the uh for the wash. So there's within the building inside the building.
>> Okay. >> Um any other questions of Mr. Sing? Yeah, I have a couple. Um, what does that sign look like? Where is it going to be positioned? And does our engineer say that that's sufficient?
>> So, we have not designed it. Um, we have not identified the location, but we will work with your engineer to identify where he believes it's the appropriate place to put that sign. So that will >> I would suggest a wash closed >> that will go into the final plan to
become a part of the township record >> and there will be no CO until our engineer looks at that. Right. >> That that would include a person out there. Correct. >> Yes. Because we'll have it we'll have somebody out there with a flag to make sure that they don't come in as well.
>> And with regard to the chemical delivery that will not be during peak times, right? >> No, that is correct. the usual really early in the morning before we even open. >> Okay. >> And as as I'm sure we all know the peak
times for a car wash is >> Friday and Saturday and when after it snows so you know the snow snow storm is coming so you can schedule things to make. >> What I'm concerned about is that they will manage that so that whatever the worst case scenario happens doesn't happen when that truck's pulling.
>> Yeah, that's my point is that you know it's going to snow tomorrow and the two days after that you're going to be busy. You can tell them not to deliver during those two days. >> And is it going into the building? Do you have something delivered that goes into an outdoor tank? So, it's constant
soap coming through. I mean, how what is it in? >> These are delivery. >> These these are closed containers. >> I'm sorry. >> These are closed containers and each coner container can be used. Uh basically, we're going to have to unplug the hose and connect to the hose and
those kind of chemicals. >> Nothing outside. >> Nothing outside. That is correct. >> How big are these containers? Five gallons. >> Yeah, they are about five five gallons and they are some of Yeah, five to a couple gallons also cost some of these chemical. >> Okay. Any other questions,
concerns, comments? Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. >> Uh I guess since we're doing operations but Mr. Jared, can >> you state and spell your name for the record? >> Yeah. >> Do you have a card? >> I do have one. It is in the car. I will
make sure everyone gets one after it. I was kicking myself that I didn't bring one. My name is Michael Ferry. I work for Mebrook Associates. We are >> misspelled. >> M I C H A L F E R R I. >> F E R R I. >> Yes.
>> Okay. Good name. >> Yes. We are a uh we're a franchise of Valve Instant Oil Change. Uh we've been in business for about 30 years. It's a family business. I work for my father and my uncle. Uh we operate 180 um loop
facilities across seven states. Um we probably have about 65 maybe 70 here in New Jersey. Um and we're in the area and I have signed a 30-year lease with Sulakon. So we intend to be here for the for the long haul. Um, typically
customers enter the site, they spend about 15 minutes on site, depending on the services they get. Um, they'll get greeted by the manager or somebody on duty that day. They will get guided into the building. Services are performed, hoods are closed, they get cashed out
inside the vehicle. Customers never get out of the vehicle. We don't allow it. And then we guide them out of the building and the plan is for them to exit. >> What else do you do besides oil change then? Exit services. Um, no hard mechanical services. We're not taking apart transmissions. We're not taking
cars apart. No cars are parked overnight. Um, it's mostly all the fluids in the car. It will be oil. It will be transmission fluid, right? Everything is serviced inside the call. It's all preventative maintenance. It's not, you know, the the heaviest thing we would do would be a tire rotation.
>> And how do you dispose of all your old oil? All the oil is collected um and it's stored in a tank and it's recycled by a national waste oil hauler which would be safety clean in this case. >> How often? >> Typically it every once every two weeks, sometimes once a week. It's a busy week.
>> How big a truck does it? >> It's about a home heating oil truck. >> How big is the storage tank? >> It would be 750 gallons and it's multiple tanks. It's not just one tank. >> So you can control that truck not coming to Peak Outlers. >> Yeah. We don't accept deliveries on
Fridays or Saturdays, but deliveries are always scheduled Monday through Wednesday. >> How long do you anticipate each service to be? So, a a customer drives in from the time they drive in and park their
vehicle to the time they pay and leave. How long is that period of time? >> Yeah, they don't park. Typically, it's about 15 minutes. >> Really? >> Yeah, it's about 15 minutes for standard services. If you want all of the services, you'll probably be there for longer, but on average, it's about 15 minutes.
>> What's your experience with all the sites that you service with backup? >> With backup. So, we have a probably 20 locations here in southern Jersey. In terms of employees, I've actually already hired a staff for this location
and they're currently being trained at our neighboring location. So, we're in Delran, we're in Egg Harbor, we're in Mount Ephraim. We're we're pretty familiar with the area. We're in uh Cherry Hill, Cranberry. >> So, again, your experience with backup
>> Oh, backup. Uh traffic. >> Oh, queuing. Oh, I'm sorry about that. Um uh typically if if it's jamming, you know, peak hours, we'd see eight customers. We'd be fitting four customers inside the building. Um, and when that happens, there'd be four people upstairs and one person
downstairs. Um, when that happens, and I know that they had planned for, you know, one car in each bay and you saying that if the car in the front bay closest to the exit would leave, we never have an empty bay. We always roll the car forward at the absolute minimum. If we
know that there's a car that's ready to be what we would call be zoomed in our process, um we would make the customer wait for a second, pull them forward so that we could then pull the car that's waiting outside inside the building. >> So >> pulling them forward, are they on tracks?
>> Nope. They would be driving inside the building. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So how many vehicles inside the building at one time? >> There would be four at maximum. That's the way the building's currently set up. And how many can stack outside when those four are there? >> We would expect another four at peak
hours. >> Okay. And what's provided on that? >> That there's uh four stacked outside. We have waiting. >> So four in, four out is what you're experiencing and it's what's provided. >> Correct. >> Okay. Are you located in any other car
washes this combination? >> Yes. So there's a handful that we're, you know, neighboring tenants to and then we have a handful that we also operate car washes as well. So we're very relatively low volume business. I mean, we'll see 50 customers a day. You
know, to compare it, Dunkin Donuts will see 50 customers probably before 8 a.m. >> So the 750galon tank, yes, that's for disposal. That's what you take out of >> that would be a waste oil storage tank, ma'am. Yes. >> And where is that tank going to be inside a building? It's inside the
building. It's located in the basement. It's a It's an above ground tank. Um, the best way to think about it would be a home heating oil tank that you would see in in a standard basement. >> You said upstairs downstairs. Explain that. What does that mean? >> So, the the way that the cars are
serviced, there's essentially a twoft opening in the floor. Cars drive in over the opening. It stays on the ground all the time, and there's a staircase that goes downstairs. There's a small catwalk platform where the bottom technician would walk two or three steps up and they'd be able to drain the oil or
service the vehicle from underneath and then walk back down the stairs when we clear the car out. So the cars never go up in the air. We don't use lifts. >> Yeah. >> And it goes right into the tank, the oil. >> Yep. There's a little cart that rolls up and down the track inside, collects the oil, and then that gets pumped into a
storage tank. >> Have you ever had any leakage of that oil? Um, it it does happen, but it's not it that would be a catastrophic thing. The tanks, if it's a leak, it's something as simple as tightening a
tightening a valve or putting >> Does it leak down to concrete or does it >> There are no floor drains currently in this building. If there is a leak, you know, the techs are trained to inspect every day. Um, but we like to keep a high standard and keep our floors as clean as possible. Um if there were to
be a catastrophic event and you know we have training on how to handle that first would be >> I was say do you have protocol that you could provide to us? >> Yeah so emergency management team. >> So safety clean is also they're a they're a national brand they're an emergency >> environmental company as well if there
were to be something that would to happen where they would we would need to call them. Um the technician would call the district manager. the district manager would immediately get on the phone and call them and then probably the fire department if that needed to be. But
it's find a source, contain it as best as possible as you can and um get the right people in place in order to clean it up. >> You you mentioned the words currently when you spoke about floor drains. Are you proposing floor drains? >> No, I want nothing to do with floor drains, sir. >> And what is the floor made of down in
the >> It's concrete. >> The concrete. >> Yep. It's all concrete. >> Do you have any pigs on standby? >> What's that? Do you have any pigs in stock? >> Do I have pigs in stock? >> Spill prevention. >> Oh, yeah. We have uh the the quick dry cleanup, spill cleanup that we can
>> But I mean, you run the pigs so it doesn't run >> like you said, bad leak. >> Uh, >> you know, the fire department has pigs >> around the Yeah. So, there's I mean, there's the quick dry BL uh
they're not towels. I'm sorry. I'm spacing on the word. It's a barrier of sorts. >> Yeah, it it's it's a barrier, but down the b the way the basement's constructed, that was never installed. Um, >> but if there I mean, if there were to be a leak, it would just be sitting in the
basement until somebody cleaned it up. >> How does the truck get into the basement? >> The truck driver runs a hose. They typically stand, they back the truck right up to the front of the bays, and they run a hose directly into the bays, through the open garage door, down the pit, opening hole. The truck driver will
then walk down the stairs. um and connect the hose directly to the to the oil tank. >> So, how does he leave? Does he have to back up or how does that work? >> He would then circulate to get around where the rest of the traffic does.
Fred, is there any standard uh with consistency of concrete that uh in an area where there could be a leak to where it cannot seep into the ground if it has that consistency from an engineering standpoint?
>> If I may. U so we epoxy the floors. So there's an epoxy coating, an eighth inch thick epoxy coating that's on the concrete. So there's a barrier between the concrete and the oil itself. It's like a stone hard floor. >> Yeah. >> That's that's beef from an engineering
standpoint. That's sufficient. >> Yes. Oh, absolutely. Okay. >> Now, I don't know what the condition of that floor is. I have not witnessed that floor. If it's crumbled up or >> We're going to make an assumption that you will make it that it's there's no cracking. No. >> Yeah. It's it's already been taken care
of. >> But you'll probably inspect that, right? >> Inside will probably be Kyle. >> You you will inspect it. Okay. Yes. and understanding what we're asking. You'll you Okay. >> Yes, >> I'm good. If he's going to do it, I'm good.
>> Be happy for an inspection. >> Any other questions? >> Any other questions of Michael? >> Other than that. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Jack. >> Did we get your hours of operation? Sorry. >> 8 a.m.
>> 8:00 a.m. to 6 p.m. >> 8 to 6. >> 8 to 6. >> The car wash was 8. >> The other was 8 to 7. far. >> Excuse me. >> He's prepared. >> Good job. >> Just hold it in,
>> Kyle. It was red. I don't know if it's >> Was it? Good morning, Chad. They'll hear you. >> Kevin, your voice is good. And he's got a mic, so we're we're >> Yeah, he asked me to turn it off. >> I can do it. >> Okay. Chad, go.
>> Yes. Chad, summarize your professional educational experience. >> Michael's going to be our maintenance man. >> Tech guy, >> uh, to qualify you as an expert civil engineer. >> Sure. So, I am a licensed professional engineer in state, New Jersey. >> I'm sorry. >> Named Chad Golap. >> All right, Chad. >> I work for the firm Penoni Associates.
We're located at 515 Gro Street in Hatton Heights, New Jersey. I've worked for Penoni for we're closing in on 25 years. So, not even half my life, but yeah. So, I've actually testified before this board for in 2022 for the Take Five
version of the car wash at this very site. >> I remember. >> Yes. and uh happy to be here again this evening. Hopefully this one gets gets approved and then constructed. So that is the hope. >> Mr. Thank you.
>> Okay. Rather than go Q&A, can you summarize the site plan for >> Sure. Uh if if I may without a mic, hopefully you can all hear me. We heard a lot of focused testimony, good testimony on the queueing and on the operations. I'm going to take a step
back for a moment um and just talk about the site in general and how it exists today and the modifications proposed to enhance and optimize uh the function of this site. So, as you all know, we're located with a single frontage on Route
38. The site is accessed by a right in right out driveway. uh that that driveway serves both the proposed car wash and oil loop as well as uh the storage facility currently in operation to the immediate um east of the site.
There are easements in place as Mr. Sheen had already mentioned to allow for that shared access. Okay. In addition to storm water and utilities. Uh so uh we've seen this exhibit already. Um I don't know if it
was mentioned the blue cars are those affiliated with those who want to access the car wash tunnel and the queueing in this case worst case scenario queuing is uh Miss Graasso has already testified to the red of course would be for the all the circulation is in a
counterclockwise direction of course with the exception of anyone who's exiting the car wash tunnel wanting to get a vacuum would then exit come here and then make the right to uh uh access one of the 12 proposed vacuum spaces on
the site. Oil loop uh patrons would also have the opportunity to use those vacuums. Uh that is the intent. Um I think it was touched on that these eight proposed vacuum spaces are actually located on adjacent lot 3.03.
That is the storage facility site that is in an existing parking easement. So currently our actually the prior finish line uh facility utilize that space there today in fact
are eight vacuum spaces. So it's the same number. I will testify that these spaces are a little wider because they need to be when people vacuum they pull in they open both doors wide. They're bent over. They need additional width to that of his standard parking space.
>> Does that easement have an expiration? >> Excuse me. >> Does that easement have an expiration? >> No. >> No, it's in perpetuity as far as I know. >> I'll double check it as we're saying. >> And that expansion, Chad, went toward Route 38. Correct. >> It it did. And in fact, a little tough
to see on this exhibit, but it's the lighter dash line >> that you see here. So the intent is to put the facilities to upgrade those facilities as they are there today uh but with sufficient width so that they're more functional.
In addition to those there are eight on-site parking spaces and as we've heard through the various testimonies given those are really just for employees. There is no need for a patron coming to the site to park anywhere other than a vacuum parking space. So,
while very shortly I'm going to get to support for uh a park in variance, the eight spaces are for the combination of the employees for the uh Bubbles car wash and the valine uh two of those spaces are handicap
accessible as is always required on any site. We want to make sure there's accessibility into the building and that accessibility is provided across the egress lane from uh the exit of the car wash and into what you see labeled the main entrance. It should be pointed out
that this portion of the building that portion closest to the highway is actually office space. Okay. So, a couple other amenities. We've talked about the kiosk. There are three. They are located as necessary uh because
you want to separate. It's just the car wash folks using that gas. The people using the oil will pay inside once they're inside the facility just prior to their service. Um there are two dumpster enclosures located at the very
extreme south corner of the property. And again, in your set, I don't have the exhibit, but in your site plan set, there is a vehicle maneuver plan that shows fire apparatus, um, garbage collection, and of course,
the passenger vehicles themselves. And so what would the way uh a a trash collection vehicle would access these is to come into the site just as any car would enter as if they were going to the oil loop and then traverse into
the car wash lane and back and then would be able to egress just as any other vehicle would. Okay. Chad, is there any uh arrangement with the trash pickup to where they're not going to be there peak
hours? >> So, I would need that testimony to come from operations. >> Okay. >> If if we could. >> So, we'll need Martin back or Michael back. >> No, actually, but he's he's nodded yes that >> okay,
>> they can uh schedule that as necessary. >> Okay. I'm sorry. So proceeding the entire site would receive new lighting that's combination of wall mount lights on the existing building and then freestanding lights and there's an illumination plan included with your set. Um,
if the board doesn't mind, I'm going to go to our landscape plan because while queuing, I think is the primary theme of the evening. Um, there were comments in the review letter regarding
the uh compliance of our our landscape. So, let me go through that. >> That'll be a exhibit A4. Yes, that's a landscape plan. And this looks identical to the plan intercept. And so the shaded areas are the landscape areas and also are the
areas that tend to be permanently irrigated. Okay. And so with our initial submission, we provided buffering at Route 38 and a number other planning around the site. Um there was a request to enhance even further the buffering at
38 because the front of this site understandably is going to see if it's a thriving business some traffic and so with being in the route 3873 Leno Lenola road overlay there's there's a focus on
buffering that you know the vehicles from the highway and so we think we're we believe we're achieving that Um, but as you can see, this is a fairly aggressive planning scheme, certainly for a car wash and certainly in compared if we were looking at sites to what you
see out there. So hopefully we're going to set a new standard and perhaps others will follow as other sites are redeveloped. Um we're also attempting to increase the buffer width certainly uh to the to our uh west uh which is to the
melting pot and also doing a little more in the rear particularly with the screen with the dumpsters and I should have mentioned there are two other enclosures and those are for the there's vacuum air compressors so for those vacuums to run rather than having compressors each one
they have a central uh vacuum um I'm sorry blower system that is manifold pulled into each one of those uh vacuum stalls. >> Chad, you said melting pot to the west, aren't they? To your east. >> Let's see. >> The west. >> No, they're down here.
>> The building to the east is the self storage office. >> Yes, this is the self storage. And then you have the former Ashley's furniture back here. >> Can you point out where the trash enclosures are so >> Yes. So on this exhibit A A4 uh to the
extreme south corner, we're currently in the existing site there located right here, which would be sort of the I guess the south uh east and actually right right on the property line. So we although you're going to hear testing, we we do need a variance for that location. While we're out of the buffer
width, we are within the the 30 foot rear yard set back. So, we're going to need variances for these structures as we will for the blower uh enclosures. All right. So, uh Mr. Tro pointed out well that with all of this I think it's
a pretty good plan. There is one uh need for some relief and that is the buffering along these spaces. Again to put buffering there would require additional permission from this adjoining owner because again these spaces are on the adjoining lot. So with
the planting uh we have not been able to secure that permission to do any any work other than the construction of the parking itself in in the easement and in fact the planting would have to happen outside. >> Did you pursue that with him?
>> So M uh Mr. Singh can uh testify that I will tell you he has reached out several times. >> Okay. >> So our proposal as it stands tonight is to not provide that planting. I'm not certain even once the attention is uh
gotten of the the joint owner that they would entertain that. I of course I can't speak for them. >> Chad, those those parking spaces and the vacuums are existing in that location. Correct. They're existing and it's just a maintained lawn currently. >> Existing but expansion, right?
>> No, I don't think Well, >> well, it's eight spaces, eight spaces. It is wid, >> right? >> Okay. >> So, that is the extent of the landscaping testimony. Um, storm water is very brief. we made we really tried
to achieve and did I think successfully to not increase imperous cover on the site and in including we we're not include uh increasing motor vehicle surface which is also very important to the today's standard. So the some of the reasons we're asking for
relief on things like drive width 12 feet versus the required 15 is to to achieve that goal. Now I'm also going to provide support as to why I think 12 ft is is certainly sufficient. Um but that's the extent of my testing on landscaping >> on storm. Did you provide any order
quality or did you do >> so currently? So >> I think there's an MTD >> there is one MTD provided and quite frankly as a carryover from the former take five car wash that we testified to approximately three years ago. And so
there is that. Um there are some modifications to the inlets and conveyance system, but the net result of this is there's there's no proposed detention on the site and it will connect into the existing pipe which currently flows solarly from this lot
onto lot 3.0 but without any increase in in runoff. So, with regard to that landscaping, that's something that we could consider, the board could could or should consider
that maybe we get a letter from the adjacent property owner saying that he would not allow landscaping or some type of again, we're not looking for something extensive. >> Fred, normally we look for landscaping so that when people are driving by, we do not look like a concrete jungle. What
is that? >> Well, I'm just thinking the thumb that sticks up the end at the end of the stalls. That would be it. >> What does that face that parking lot right >> in the driveway? >> That faces route 38. >> Which are you talking? >> I'm talking about the thumb at the very
end, the northern end of the vacuum. No, no, >> to the left of the park. That's >> okay. >> And that would fall within your ement also. >> So, it would fall within the easement. Uh I still since the Eastman doesn't specifically call out landscaping I think permissions that we need to be
sought to uh >> so your suggestion with regard to that is >> that another formal request should be made if the board would like to see that from the board um and then brought back to the property owner of the self storage. So
>> Kevin, do you know what kind of request was made now? They reached out to the uh >> verbally or formally >> verbally with to the property manager to try to get to the owner. It's owned by a re a real estate investment trust. >> So would you be opposed to a letter going to them just to formalize it?
>> No, I would not oppose. >> Okay. >> And Kevin, it would just be that small area. >> Yeah, we we'll provide the site plan and circle the area where we're looking >> headlights shining there or just shining into a drive wheel. Okay. >> I have a question about uh the trash
pickup. Sure. >> Do they have to go through the kiosk to get to the >> No. So, they would actually not be able to go through the kiosk. So, you vision kiosk, it's a little pay station, but does have a little canopy over the top to keep those doing the transition with their arms out the window from the
weather. And so, using this exhibit, I'm just going to trace. >> Mhm. >> No one can see this, of course, on the record, but I'm going to trace it. They would come in here. They would go towards the oil loop. And the reason this is not separated by curb is that vehicle would literally do this.
>> Back up and then >> Okay. Look like it was a solid wall there. >> Yeah. That's that's just a stripe on the page. >> So one one more exhibit. I'll keep this as quick as possible. I know we want to get five >> to Mr. Miller's testimony.
Save the best for last. It's all a show here. So signage. So we we think we're actually in hand and I've done a lot of chain retail. They want dozens of signs sometimes. We're asking for three.
Currently there's five on the building for the finish line. So those will all be removed. Now I apologize. In your set you have these. These are very small. Um, but we're proposing, and I'll point to it here, which is at the front of the office on the awning, which overhangs a
bit beyond the facade of the building. We're proposing to replace this orange and blue finish line sign with this uh dual bubbles and valve sign, which is approximately half the area of the sign. That's number one. It is fronting the 38
>> and it conforms in size. is under I forget what the requirement is. It's under that area. The second sign is also a replacement. It's at the entrance over top of the two rollup doors to the oil loop. And again, you
can't see it, but it's a very long wide uh it just says oil change, I believe, on the finish line. And it's going to be valene um instant oil change as the replacement.
So that's sign number two. Two facade signs. So we comply with the number of signs and we comply with the size of each of the signs. The third sign is a proposed pylon sign located at the front corner. So it's in advance of our driveway. So for safe deceleration and
turn. Um it's a 50 square foot sign. Again both the bubbles and the valve wing uh signature on it. The sign's 18 ft tall which is lower than the 20 ft permitted. I believe is 50 square feet, which is the maximum assignments per
um and it is set back. I don't know if there was a sign set back requirement, but we're setting it back beyond the 8 wide uh landscape. >> And Chad, that's new. >> That would be a new sign. They're not refacing as as a new sign.
>> Is there a total sign three is less than the five that's there? Did you say that? There are more signs on the building than we're currently proposing. I believe there's five >> we're proposing to. >> Okay. >> So, nothing to discuss as far as relief
request. Of course, we're open to questions and suggestions, but the sign packages presented we believe is >> What about the little signs throughout the site, the wayward signs arrows? >> They're currently not designed. So for
instance, Fred, I I I would tend to think we'd want a wayf finding sign here to point one way for the oil and the other way for the car wash tunnel. And so as a condition of approval, if appropriate, we we would provide those additional way signs, which generally be
no more than 3 ft high. We try to keep them at no more than three or four feet square feet in size. >> And you'll comply with the size ordinance of our ordinances? Yes. Which I haven't >> I was going to ask Kyle. I don't know what the size of a
>> I don't have it in front of me, but there's a percentage of the building. So there's a percentage of the face of the building. >> We're talking just >> the direction. Oh, the temporary signs. >> Directional signs.
>> Yeah, they they should be okay for that site. So, they're not designed yet, but you will be designing them and they will be part of the final plan. >> Yes. >> That the township has on record. >> Yes. >> And they will be approved by our
engineer before there's a CEO. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Typically, they're three square feet is what I see in most municipalities, I'm assuming, for the city. >> Okay. Any questions, Mr. Wrap? Chad's qu any questions for Chad comments? >> I just have a crazy question. Has
nothing to do with anything. >> Oh, no. >> I should have been a police officer, I swear. But um if someone comes in the oil lane and you said the trash truck can get through the back of the oil facility, what's to stop a car from going through the oil lane and squeezing
in the back to get to the car wash without paying? >> So, they physically could do that, but one, there's an attendant at the eress of the pay stations. Say that again. We were laughing. >> There's an employee at the uh kiosk there. So, you should be able to stop the tag.
>> I've seen that at >> just for their protection, you know. >> And generally, I I don't know Mr. Sing to test. I don't know if they get a little paper receipt, but I know when I go to the car wash and I go to old style one, they they don't take you if you don't have a little piece of paper with the number on it. So there's something
that's going to register that they actually paid for a wash so that the attendant at the opening of the wash. >> That was one of my first questions. How do people not just cheat and go in there? >> I know it's it's so obvious. >> As good a question as it is, there will not be a condition on that.
>> No. >> Watch her as she goes through. >> Any other questions, comments, concerns for Chad? >> Watch her. >> Okay, thank you very much. >> Last one. Mr. Miller for planning test appearances. >> I assume Mr. Miller has been here and
approved as expert in the past. >> We always ask for Miller like >> I would think. >> There you go, Jim. >> Well, >> good evening. >> Hi, Jim. How are you? >> Good. >> All right. The accept Mr. Miller is an expert in professional planning. >> Yes, I do.
>> I'll pass the >> All right. Jim, have you evaluated the application and the variances that were requested? >> I have. >> To determine whether or not we meet the criteria necessary? >> Yes, I have. >> Okay. Can you summarize your analysis? >> Are we going to go through the interpretation first? >> No, I don't think so.
>> Okay. Well, I'm going to go right to the uh the use variance testimony then. Um, basically um first we have to show that we're going to satisfy the different purposes municipal land use law. And I believe
that there's at least three that would be satisfied by this application. Purpose A to encourage me. >> Pull that mic a little closer to you. >> Really? >> You're sitting back ordinarily. You're fall. You're sitting back and relaxing. So no, sit back and relax. Just pull the
mic closer. >> Next time you come, we have a recliner. >> I spent my whole day at the uh hospital with my >> And this this is more relaxing, believe me. But anyway um so the first purpose
purpose A to encourage municipal action to guide the appropriate use or development of all lands in the state in a manner promote the public health safety morals and general welfare. Purpose G to provide sufficient space in appropriate locations variety of agricultural residential recreational commercial and industrial uses and open
space both public and private according to respective environmental requirements in order to meet the needs of all New Jersey citizens. These are the purposes that always address the appropriateness of the site and in in general way. They're also the purposes I cited at the hearing on the uh the prior hearing on
this this site. I also cited purpose M to encourage coordination of the various public and private procedures and activities shaping land development with the view of lessening the cost of such development to more efficient use of the land. And of course with a D2 variance the criteria a little more relaxed than
they are for a D1 because the use is already present in the community and and as a consequence the community has adapted to it to to some extent at least. So the the first series of of criteria I want to address are the uh are that u
modification of pre-existing non-conforming use is justified if the modification allows the use to adapt to changing requirements for the use and it does not result in an intensificification or change in the character of the use and I think this
application really meets that uh that standard very well. First of all, as you know from the testimony on the operations, this is basically just a more modern setup for a car wash. The kiosk are uh are more efficient and and
a better means of of processing the payments than the uh single kiosk that used to be on site. Uh the uh the circulation is actually enhanced. I as as we were talking about the stacking, I pulled the uh resolution for one of the
earlier approvals and you could see from that resolution that there's actually more stacking on this plan than there was on the prior plan. So you have a more efficient operation and also more capacity because the primary change here with the site is
the widening of that that segment of the the stacking area. So basically you end up with about four or five more cars than you probably had in the past. So uh and and in other ways the the the trash enclosure is an enhancement. They've widened the uh the bays for the vacuum.
So basically all the changes that are here are just basically to modernize the use and make it more efficient and more uh uh compatible to the patrons that are going to utilize the facility. Uh and there is no intensification uh because the building is exactly the
same as it was in the past. Both the lubrication facility and the car wash itself occupy an identical footprint and identical structures to what was there in the past. So basically everything that's changing here is basically an improvement or an enhancement and
there's other than that it's the same uses it always was. So I I believe it does satisfy that criteria. And then also uh secondly uh the location is particularly suited for the car wash and that's basically because you already have uh the structures in place. You
have all the improvements in place. It's always been a car wash and it's in an area on Route 38 where you have a cluster of other auto service uses. Uh there's a car dealerships across the street. There's a Pep Boys facility. So
basically um all the uses in this immediate area are either self- storage or some way related to car services. So it it's a good fit with that area. It's actually complimentary in some respects to the other auto service uses. So for those reasons I believe it does satisfy
the positive criteria for a D2 variance for pre-existing non-conforming use. I would also add that that to the extent we have some um C variances, most of those involve uh site improvements that
are existing or they're related to some of these these enhancements, but they're they're really dimminimous changes. For example, widening slightly the base for the vacuum is really not something that's going to have any any real impact on the uh on on the site. and the uh the
little landscape issue that came up a little earlier u involves take that out for a second and I know that we've already agreed to look into this and see if we can get permission but the reality of it is if you think about driving on Route 38 uh
there's a thing we call a sight tri a cone of vision when you're in a in a car and basically that cone of vision directs you to to the to the east. And with this landscape, you're not going to be able to see this property until you're adjacent to the
driveway. In that case, it's going to be out of out of your code of vision by a significant amount. >> Unless you're driving west. >> Yeah. But these are >> unless it's 5:00 p.m., right? >> You're looking at >> Yeah, you're looking at it, but there's other things here that are going to have skewered as well. What I'm really saying
is that the visual impact of that is the minimus whether it's landscaped or not. So, you know, again, the applicant is going to try to get the landscaping, but if there is a need for relief there, I think that there's uh there's no detriment uh from from any relief that
would have to be required there, and it is an existing condition. Um otherwise, the uh the other features that are changing are the trash enclosures being relocated. There's some additional uh uh accessory structures that are being
located but all those really just contribute to the operational aspects of the of of the facility but they don't really have any impact that differs from what the uh existing conditions are. So basically I think that all those um all
those um C variances are subsumed within the D variance and and basically are integral to the changes that are occurring here and the improvements that are going to result as this this variance is is approved by the board. So that brings me to the negative
criteria where uh first I have to show that there under the general welfare prong that there's no uh significant detrimental impact on the adjoining neighborhood. And basically again this is an area with you know heavy concentration of commercial uses many of
them more intense and and and greater in scale than than this particular facility. A lot of them are also auto uh related service uses. So uh basically this use is a good blend with those uses and there's no potential here for any
adverse impact on the surrounding community and there is probably at least some benefit reoccupying a vacant structure u as well that'll contribute to the overall stability of the area. So I I think there's no question that it satisfies the uh general welfare prong
of the negative criteria. And then the final criteria we have to address is that the granting the uh variance will not impair the intent or purpose of the zone plan and zone ordinance. And here you are dealing with a with an existing use, existing improvements, existing
facilities. And um with with with these pre-existing improvements, the landowner does have certain rights to be able to maintain the the materials that are on on the on the site. And it also I
think despite the uh the fact that it's not a permitted use uh there's really no discernable substantial impact on the on the area in the surrounding area that the the use itself isn't going to become more impactful. It's not going to change
in its character intensity. And uh for non-conforming uses, I think that's all you really need to uh satisfy in terms of the the zone plan and zoning ordinances. This is going to have the same impact on the zone plan and zoning ordinances has had historically and it's
consistent with the existing land use patterns and I as a consequence I don't see any detriment to the uh or any uh impairment in tenor purpose of the zone plan and zoning ordinance or any further impact on those as a consequence of this uh of this relief being granted. So I
believe it meets all the applicable criteria and would merge your approval. >> Any questions? Mr. Miller questions. >> That was Miller late. >> It was Miller Lake. >> Jim, thank you. >> I do listen. >> Mr. Chairman, we have no further direct
testimony. Be happy to answer any additions. >> Uh Kevin, uh you and your team made a very thorough one too. How was it? So, >> Fred, what I'm going to I wanted you to go through your engineering letter one thing at a time, but I don't know that
that's necessary with the testimony that's been given. >> So, what I would like you to do is hit the highlights, let us know where the variances are needed so Mr. Kingsbury can make sure that he has a list any conditions that would be needed to
articulate them so that again when a motion is being made we can understand what the motion's about. >> I will do that as quickly as I can. Uh just following up with Mr. Miller gave an excellent presentation as always with regard to landscaping. It's it's me
again. So, uh, I do believe that in mixing with the D and the C variants for relief, there's a zero foot buffer currently provided there. They're expanding that zero foot buffer. So, again, I think asking for something on I'm going to call it the thumb of that
island is not going beyond what >> and they have agreed to send a formal request. Okay. >> All right. So, I am going to quickly run through the letter. Uh, there there are a lot of things here because >> highlight. >> Yes, highlight. I'm going to highlight the letter. There are a lot of items here because this is a pre-existing
condition. Uh the trash enclosures we've already heard about and I'll run through these as quickly as I can. The buffers, they did increase the enhance the buffers which they did a very good job. Of course, I'm going to ask for a few more shrubs uh here or there as the thing is built. Just hoping the
applicant would agree to that. >> At least two. Um trash enclosure. We've heard about waste disposal. We've heard testimony on. Make sure that everything's stored internally. Nothing's external. Uh outside of the building, anything
flammable, that would I guess all fall on Kyle's and the construction office. Um variances required for setbacks, and I won't go through those just because it's a pre-existing non-conforming. There are a bunch of variances required for those setbacks. The accessory
structure, the kiosk is actually potentially a variance situation. Again, front yard, sideyard, it's an accessory structure. So, that may be something we should put on the record that the kiosk requires variance. Uh, Mr. Miller, >> Robert, you got that? >> Okay.
>> Okay. Yeah. So, again, I would recommend it. It's with the buffering that's being provided. I I think that it meets the intent and they've more than covered the the issue and especially the visibility of that kiosk is important to get cars through.
Uh testimony, we heard testimony on the off-site lot, the self-s storage facility, number of parking spaces they've accommodated by eliminating, I think we eventually set out with 16 vacuums. We went to 14, now we're at 12. And it still works as you heard Beth
provided that testimony that it it will function properly unless somebody takes a vacation in one of the parking stalls waxing their cars. So um aisle widths. We did actually hear two people I think mention the aisle widths. They're supposed to be 15. They're 12
for one way. 12 ft is more than sufficient to handle a um single pedestrian type vehicle. concern is always with the fire equipment and they do have a circulation plan and the I think two circulation plans in there. The vehicles can make these obviously
and again I'm not sure that somebody's going to pull on that site with an emergency vehicle. Most likely would go to the next door neighbor um the restaurant and service this building because it's so close to the property. Anyway, there's no issues with circulation on site. So I would support
all those variances. Isle width two-way there's 24 ft proposed. It's 25 ft to minimus. I would support that. Buffer areas. Of course, we have some widened driveways out front, but they did enhance the buffers for us. They
provided us irrigation as we requested. That is such a huge item for us in Maple Shade. What happens is typically we get a buffer on a plan. Even if they do a nice plant, year one, okay, it looks good. Year two, we know what happens in year five. The plants aren't even there
anymore. The landscapers cut them down. So, with the irrigation, I I I'm hopeful on this application and maybe it's a copy that we can do with up and down our corridors. Uh, at least for the front of the sites. Um, let's see. Sorry, I lost my spot here.
Off off-site loading and unloading, we heard about that, right? So, we're okay. The vehicles coming in are relatively small off hours for the waste oil and their deliveries. And they had days where no Fridays, no Saturdays, uh, which are their peak times. So again, I could support that.
One thing that wasn't discussed was item 13 of our letter, and that was the sidewalk along the front of the site. And I'm not sure that you have sidewalk as part of this. In other applications, most recently,
Friendly Greens on Lanola Road, uh, they did they resisted, did not want to put sidewalk in. They explained to me how the grading wouldn't allow it. It turns out the sidewalk fell right in place with zero grading. And my my position on sidewalk is if you don't start it, it's
never going to be there. If this was 73, I would be jumping up and down because we have so much foot traffic on 73. I really am not that familiar with this. The board may be more familiar than I am with foot traffic on Route 38, but I always request that the township
consider uh requiring sidewalk. It is an ordinance requirement. Uh it's not a variance. It would be a waiver. It's it's a design waiver. So the the lift is not as heavy for the applicant to prove, but I think it's more one of public safety. So that would be the decision
for the board to consider. They would be required to go to DOT. We would not have to hold them up. We could always condition that with DOT process could take a year and obviously that would be a condition that they install it within two years or depending on how the board
wants to go. Uh you can put four years, five years, whatever you want to do as the board. It's it's your control. But I just think that we should consider sidewalk. Again, I'm not familiar with put traffic on. I know 73 is terrible. Uh even PSCG at the power substation put
sidewalk in for us there. So something to think about. But before we go away, the resolution should say whether it is or isn't. Um running through this very quickly again. Uh materials disposal. We heard that for
the balcony sign changes. Big win for us. Um five signs to three. Uh five signs to two on the building. And then we have the pylon sign that's going to conform and the little wayfinding signs or directional signs. We'll deal with that and again I don't know what the
standard is, but I'm assuming it's three square feet. We'll we'll work with the applicants and make sure it's not offensive or blocking anyone's uh view. Hours of operation. We heard about affordable housing obligations. Always something Kevin right in case there >> Okay. You agree to that? >> Yep.
>> Um I'm reading Mr. Chairman. Sorry. Number of employees was heard traffic. Okay. Uh traffic, we did go through that. I won't say it. Nauseium. I think everything that we heard was important. Uh it's a whole section in here. The one that we talked about
go away because it's broken. You know, our traffic engineer mentioned some kind of a permanent sign almost that would flash red if out by the entrance. Car wash closed. But I like the idea of having a person out there when it happens with, you know, an orange flag
or something waving people. But that would be a decision for the board to consider how you want if you're going to rely on the person or we put a little sign out there that >> I think they said they were going to have a sign and they were going to submit that sign.
>> Yeah. I my thought look I'm not an expert but my thought was almost like a sandwich board A-frame sign that says wash closed. It was is not there all the time. So that's the thing that they're going to present and you're going to look at where it is and how it is to say whether it achieves what we want.
>> Does the board think that the washboard type sign would work or would you want something illuminated that says closed wash closed or I don't know. >> I don't know what other people at the board think. >> Yeah. But as long as it's large enough
to be seen, >> okay? >> And eye-catching like maybe a orange color or something eye catching, >> not just, you know, another sign along 38. >> I'd like to see it, but >> right because we don't even see the signs. If you really walked, you'd probably see 100 more signs, right? It's pollution,
>> but okay. Something that's just a highly visible and >> Yeah. >> And they'll have a personnel out there if it is closed. Okay. >> Okay. We'll work on And understanding that when you see what they present, you'll say whether it meets that standard. >> Okay, great. Thank you for the direction. Okay.
>> Uh EOT uh the last comment Kevin on September 28 for the traffic. >> Oh yes. >> And that was regarding a letter of no interest and I don't know if someone could speak to that. That that's important just because there is a change
and >> letter of no interest. >> Yes. Okay. Um, we can certainly get you the uh standard letter of no interest if we are not generating more than 100 vehicles >> an hour. We have a standard form. Is that acceptable? >> Yes. Yes.
>> I mean, it's like dated 2008 or 2012 or something like that. >> That's fine. >> That's all DOT will give you. >> That's fine. Yeah. Cuz we're at 60, right? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Because Yeah. They won't answer your question. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Why would our state do that? And and the
reason, Mr. Chairman, the reason for that, we talked about queuing and we're worried about liability. I want the DOT to put their stamp on this. Yes. Uh because if there is an incident and I
think Mr. Wag Wagner actually pulled up police reports over the last 10 years to see how what has been going on out there. And I believe there were only two minor Yeah, there was two. Uh the last 10 years there's been two minor fender meners at the entrance area who were
directly in front of the property. That's all. >> And we don't know if they were related to the car wash or the self storage or what they may have. >> Just people driving and looking at their phone. >> Right. >> Right. Well, that's the cause of almost all accidents now. Right. But I just want to make sure the DOT buys in and
they they send something that they looked at this and that Maple Shade Township's not hanging out there on their own. Okay. All right. All right. Um >> that's it. >> Is that it? >> Questions on the engineers report? Anything? Comments? Concerns?
>> Okay, Kevin. >> Yes. The thing that was left outstanding was the sidewall. >> Yes. >> Would you like to give any comments with regard to that? Yeah, we prefer not to install the sidewalk. >> You're asking for a waiver. >> We are asking for a waiver. There's no I think the closest sidewalk on the one side is Wawa.
>> It is. >> Um and then you've got the uh self storage. They're not really uh pedestrian generating uses, the self storage and the uh car wash. Um they're vehicle generating uses. Um even the the
melting pot, which is more pedestrian, that doesn't have a sidewalk either. We've been here the original plus two times in the last 5 years and we weren't required to put a sidewalk in. >> Hearing that, are there any objections to not having a sidewalk from board members?
>> Okay. So, Robert, you're going to read us the uh >> I'm not going to repeat what Fred said, but uh you need a v use variance with the requested bulk variances as recited
by your engineer with a sidewalk waiver. And you can do it all in one. It's all one >> one motion. >> One motion. >> Okay. Is there a motion? I'll make a motion to approve with the >> motion made by Lou. Is there a second?
>> Is there a second? >> A second. >> Laura second a motion. >> Roll call, please. >> Miss Bevich, >> approve. >> Miss Koseratski, >> approve.
>> Mr. McDonald, >> approve. >> Miss Valentino, >> approve. Mr. Zurga >> approved. >> Chairman Gay approved. Mike Stevens >> approved.
>> That's all. We just need seven votes. So >> what's that? >> All seven. >> Seven voters. Yeah. >> So in retrospect, I didn't open the this up to the general public. >> So if there can we open it? >> So I'm going to do it now. Is there anybody in the general public who would
like to speak for or against this motion? >> None. >> So, I'm safe. >> That's good. >> I usually catch it. I didn't catch it. >> Okay. So, uh Kevin, your client's
application has been unanimously approved. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh there is a 45day rule that says that our decision could be challenged and this is commercial so there is not a six-month moratorum right where they need to do something before
they come back. >> No that's he's good for u >> life >> he's good for two years. >> All right. Okay. So uh congratulations. Uh well job well done everybody out there. >> Thank you Mr. Thank you all.
Except for the one that didn't bring us Cory. >> There we go. >> You know where to get your wheel changed. >> No, you can take >> I am in the federal witness protection.
>> Can I see those cards right there? What's that? >> Can I see those cards? >> Merry Christmas. >> Have a good holiday. Take care. >> Merry Christmas. >> Okay, we need a motion to approve the minutes made by Mr. key. Seconded by
Michael. Come on. >> All in favor signify by saying I. >> You're a voter tonight. >> You're a voter tonight. >> Those opposed. And the minutes are excellent, by the way. Okay. Resolutions. We have one.
>> We have one. Susan Wall-E. This was that unusual uh land subdivision. and uh annexation to the neighboring property owner. It's uh 307
South Cedar Avenue in the R1 zone and the rear portion of her property was being subdivided off and added to the neighboring property uh on uh the the adjacent street.
Um there were several bulk variances that were required not as a result of any new construction but because of exist existing conditions. Um, it was considered to be an expansion of
a non-conforming use because the property on Salman Avenue is in the business development zone and they were expanding a residential use. So, the board uh during the public portion there was testimony from Paul
Booth who grew up in Maple Shade and was familiar with the neighborhood. We thought it would made common sense to do this and the board voted to approve the subdivision with the bulk variances
uh subject to uh the engineers uh review letter of November 5 and uh the applicant will comply with the engineers uh requested modifications to the plan
and uh the standard conditions. The eligible voters are Babich, Kosarachi, Mortimer, Valentino, Zera, Brady, and D. Is there a motion? >> Motion.
>> He said I'm allowed. >> Mr. Stevens, you're not on there, but thank you for trying. >> Y again. >> I'll make a motion. >> Okay. >> Laura made the motion, seconded by Lou. Roll call, please.
>> Lou was a second. >> Yep. >> Bear with me here. >> Miss Bevage, >> approve. >> Miss Koserachki, >> approve. Here, Miss Valentino >> approved.
>> Mr. Zera, >> approved. >> Chairman McGee, >> approved. >> Okay. Uh before we ask for a motion to adjourn um hour being such that we will not have a once around uh I just want to
remind everybody that next week Wednesday 17:15 7:30 our board is getting together to celebrate the holidays. So everyone is invited. Hope to see you there.
>> Sounds good. >> Thank you. Yep. Good. >> It's a good time. Relax. No business. Good stories about each other. That's all you need. >> Okay. Need a motion to adjurnn. >> Make that motion. >> Move. Seconded by Mr. G. All in favor
signify by saying I. I. >> Those opposed. >> Kyle, were we going to speak about >> No, he he said that there is no close session.