Okay, just waiting for YouTube. Just give me a moment. >> Live stream. It >> is live. Okay. All right. Since we do have a flag in this room, we'll start with the code of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Um, sorry that we don't have a sign sheet, but we will start with public comment.
Um, would anyone like to Mary, please? Mary McCarristen, Pine Cliff Drive. I'm here to say thank you to all of you that have worked so hard and try to get the budget under control. We need an override. So,
I want to give kudos because it wasn't easy for you guys. You were handed a mess from the last three years. you've I've noticed kind of some bullying and I just want to say thank you and a lot of
other people said thank you too and I've been talking to the senior citizens tell them we need an override and I'm they were actually listening cuz they I told them we're in really bad trouble so keep up the good work glad you're staying
you're running again right >> I'm not up this Oh, wait. I'm running again. Yes, Mary. Thank you. >> Yes, I'll take a sign. Okay. >> When I have them, you will get one.
Thank you. >> Anybody else in the room? >> I guess any hands raised? >> Don't see any hands online. >> Okay. Uh we will then move on to our fiscal year 27 budget. Um, so for our budget subcommittee, would
you like to update us on the work done since our last meeting or turn it directly over to John and Mike? What would you prefer? >> Um, yeah. Well, I think maybe just a quick recap um if if the if that's the will of the committee. But I do think we
were going to have Mike present um what we discussed. I think probably is the best thing. Melissa, what do you think? >> Yeah, I think a quick recap and then have Mike present would be helpful. Okay. So, we um well, we had Mike present to us on um oh my gosh, was it
Wednesday? I guess I'm losing track of days. Um and he's going to present his um his numbers or his presentation in just a second. Um, so basically, and jump in here if you don't if if you if you don't think I'm accurate, Melissa
Mike um had gone through and had calculated the um I think there were six or seven benefit line items um that were in discussion in regards to um what we were being asked to look at in in
regards to our budget and those numbers. He actually had gone back and forth with I don't think he actually sat down with Alicia, but I think might correct me if I'm wrong. You guys went back and forth and and basically came to um the same um bottom line number. I think there you were off by maybe $45,000 or $50,000.
Um is that is that correct? >> Yes. Correct. >> Yeah. So So we had that number. Um I think what so then so then what the discussion led into and we had um folks from the finance committee there was that the select board is um and that number is a little over a million
dollars. It was like a million40,000 or something. Um and the select board >> it's a it's a million it's 1.4 for, right? >> Um well, for just the benefit costs, right? So then what we're what the uh
finance uh director also built in is a buffer, right, of I think about $750,000. So what we were also being asked to um include in that benefits number was not just the actual number cost of the benefits but also um a
an extra buffer if you will and that's the word they're using of about $470,000 to cover what could be um any changes next year um in the benefit costs. Does that sound accurate, Melissa?
Uh yeah, I I would just Yeah, I would just add that the buffer has always been in the budget every year. It was $630,000 this year. So it's not a new buffer. It's just kind of typical budgeting best practice. Yeah. >> Right. So um so then we're being asked
to um take on 63% of that, right? I think that was the math was. >> Yeah. Um so what um and so Melissa and I basically so we all sort of went back and forth and did not agree on um that
concept of of us taking on and there was some reasons for that and I don't know we can talk about that well maybe when Mike gets into his his um his presentation. So basically we came out of this with effectively a motion to present two different numbers to the to the select board to the school committee
this morning. Um and the difference is uh basically that that buffer and we can get into the reasoning why in just a minute. So there's basically two different numbers for this committee to consider and I would like to hear you know what the what the what the committee thinks about this. Um because there's a lot of different moving parts
to this. Um, and I will say I I think what I believe what we left there too is that I had gone into this meeting on Wednesday thinking that what was presented to us on March 12th, which was about a $61 million budget presentation from the
finance committee chair was to be considered. You know, in other words, for us to bring over the the full amount of the expenses as well as the revenue side for the budget for the school that would be reflective or would conclude all employee benefit or almost
all employee benefits for the employees of the school district that I think we all agreed um is maybe premature. There's some work that needs to be done to do that. So the recommendation would be to not bring over all of the expenses as well as
revenue for that, but to still um make the cuts based on the calculation of the benefits of our employees. So that's where we are and those are the two numbers you're going to have presented to you this morning. >> Did I? >> Yeah. No, I don't think you did. I just
want to like kind of double click on some of the points that you already mentioned. So, like Jen said, we were tasked with kind of validating the benefits number. Like Jen said, Mike, Alicia, and Fincom all looked at this number and came within kind of 45,000 of one another. So, we can all feel good
that the 1.5 million in total if we were to assume the buffer stays included. Like, we feel good about that number because everybody's done the math and like um have have done the work and feel good about it. I just on the buffer piece just so you guys have the context that we got from Fincom was that Alicia
and our town finance director recommends a 5% buffer on health insurance is just kind of best practice. It's not a theoretical number. We've consumed $300,000 through mid-March of the $630,000
cushion that was budgeted this year. So, we'll talk obviously more about if we include it or we don't include it, but there is a situation where if we'd removed the buffer um in actuals played out this year, we'd be underbudgeted on insurance before the year is over. And
so, it is like from their side best practice in terms of budgeting to have a buffer on the health insurance number. Um, which is just like the points that I think Molly and Alec were underscoring in the meeting on Wednesday. >> Yeah. and then well I'll just jump in
and just then go through this. So my feeling is I I totally agree right we we have buffers on almost all of our line items so we understand that you you know you would have that but my concern was for the school side is a couple of things. One um to my knowledge and I
don't know if if uh the town side has actually run their actual costs. I'm not I'm not sure um in terms of what their costs were this year, what they're projecting. >> They did that was what Alex that was what Alex said that they did through mid-March. >> Okay. Because I haven't seen that number. I don't think it's >> they said they did do that. Yeah.
>> With the public yet. >> Um but what my concern was is that there there has been no um and this isn't, you know, I'm not like trying to criticize. I'm just saying the fact is that there's been no there's been no um calculation
or consideration for the fact that um going forward with this budget whatever we end up you know we end up with with these cuts and the town side is too is going to include I mean I I know this is hard to talk about but it's going to include dozens of employees or dozens of
positions being lost and so the corresponding um not you know cost associated with that will not be necessary. So that was not factored into that this budget which is you know which I think should have
been because whatever override that we go for and hopefully pass will include funds to cover um you know benefits and salaries and that that's that's the point of the override. So, and it a a budget not without the override, which is the first round of what we have to do
here, um should include an some kind of a projection of the reduction in the cost, which it which it doesn't. Um and my other my other issue is that what Mike also presented, which he will I'm stealing a lead here. um is that you
know two things that we we sort of asked for or or were asking for is one that if there actually was if so if we didn't go forward with the buffer or the full buffer the full $500,000 um some portion of it and we did you know periodic
updates um or the school district does with the town site over the course of the coming fiscal year monthly quarterly midyear and there is some sort of um debit in terms of we've gone over on our benefits, then the school the school
committee can can transfer money over to the town to cover that at any point during the year with with a vote of the committee. Um, but my issue is that if if we don't go over and this all of this buffer lies on the town side, none of it on the school side, then and they don't
go over, then, you know, we've, you know, we we that's money we've these are jobs. You know, a $500,000 cut additional on top of our million-doll hard costs of our of our employee benefits is, you know, eight jobs. So, I'm just trying to be um you know, I've
jumped into the discussion here. trying to be, you know, kind of weighing the both sides. So, I think we probably, you know, this is sounds all conceptual, so be able to just go through it. Um, and maybe have Mike, I don't know, share your screen or I don't know if you have the document we had from the other day and just walk through the committee
members through it's a one pager. It's not it's not a lot of heavy detail. >> Yes, I'm bring up right now. >> Thank you, Mike. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then when Mike's done, I would love to kind of um
share my perspective on the specific budget or a specific buffer um and how I'm viewing it. So um I was I was asked by the committee to review the numbers that were presented
by the finance committee, slug board, town administration related to the costs that are covered by the town but are attributed to the school committee or the school department. So there were six items. Um I've condensed them down into five. Um,
as I've reported earlier, life insurance, I confirm that that number is accurate. Uh, other post-employment, um, it should be OPED, not OP, no op. Uh, OPE, other post-employment benefits, 1525. Uh, that's a it's a they use a a
um formula for that. Um, so, and again, it's a relatively small number in the grand scheme of things. Uh, the pension that is done by an actuary in Boston. I understand that it has been requested and in future years they break out the school department from the town when
they report what the school department's pension liability is. Uh so that'll be good to have. So right now I think they're using a percentage because the actuary has not and it's not any fault of the town or anything. It's just the actuary did not provide it broken out. Uh I understand like they break off for light department. They break out for the
water department. So the the departments that are um I forget the word that they use for the those departments but they're um special funds blanking on it right now. So in the future they are going to break that so we can get a more accurate number um or a more relative number directly to the school. I'm not
saying it's not accurate but a number that's more relative to the school committee. Um Medicare uh this is for the public employees committee. um retirees get a part of the pack um a reimbursement and I was able to confirm
that that number is accurate. So when we get into health insurance um you know and I have to say health insurance is a moment in time analysis. Um when these numbers were originally presented to us they were using January's numbers of enrolles and and what plans people were
on. And granted, for the most part, you can't change your plan mid year unless you have a life changing event. A spouse loses their benefits. Um we hire somebody, somebody gets somebody leaves the school department or the town. Those
would be changing events. Um, so using March's numbers on 317, I came up with a active and retired employment uh benefit cost of $10.195 million.
Um, the town administration came up with 10.241, which is a difference of $45,000 in in the grand scheme of things is um very very negligible. Um, it's it's it's it's so minute. Um, I included the $462,000 buffer. They included a
$462,000 buffer. Uh, the town finance committee, I understand, uh, also ran an analysis and they came up with $10.7 million, um, including the buffer. So, uh, at the end of the day, I was at 106 with the buffer. The town was at 10703
and FINCOM was at 10707. So, >> down a little bit. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Sorry, Mike. >> No. Okay. Uh so all total between the highest and lowest number is $50,000 difference less than $50,000 49 change.
So um I can see that anything can change with numbers. Um so the so when we we're talking about today I went with the town finance committee which is the highest number. Just wanted to say it you know willing to concede that that's the number that we should be working on for benefits.
So all total um for all buckets which are those five bullets is $13.466 million. Um and that's using the town finance committee numbers. Then we understood that the select board and finance committee removed
paying uh OPED in next year's budget and that was 152,500 attributed to the schools. So when I remove that it comes down to $13.3 million. Again, using the town finance committee calculation,
I'll just step into uh our budget. Our budget this year that was presented by the superintendent back in February is $49,120,285. That is a um level funded budget. There is no additional
funds added to our FY26 budget. Then we add in the town side costs using the F finance committee's calculation is our estimated cost of the town is 62.43 million according to the best estimates for
revenues and the formula of 63% 37% 63% for the school side and 37% to reside on the town side. Um the 63% of in of projected revenues is just shy of $61 million. $60.948 million. Again, that is
from finance committee on March 18th. So I have a difference of four $1.486 million right on target for $1.5 million that they were requesting. So um so so I'll stop there for a second and just say we
are aligned with the town as far as the numbers are concerned. things we can't control are projections, revenue projections. And I I it's not my job to project revenues. It's not my say it's my job. That's very rude, crude. It's not my area of expertise to to project
revenues. So I leave that to the experts, which is uh this town CFO and uh the finance committee. So So we are in alignment. That's kind of where we we we we wanted to stop for a second. Then we said, "Okay, I think Miss Shaner
alluded to this in her summary. We said,"Well, the town told them $462,000 of our money on their side um of our of our It's not our money. It's our um of our um 62 I'm sorry $60.9 million is
on their side with the with with the knowledge of how much is actually going to be needed. You know, I I I I heard the $300,000 number that we're at. Also, I did not understand nor did I ask for clarification from the finance
committee. Um we are 9 months through the year. So, if we're at 300,000, is that just for the schools or is that for the schools in town? I don't know, and I'm not going to make assumptions. Um, we need to get to the bottom line here.
We can't keep keep going back and forth. So, um, our my my recommendation to the committee on Wednesday was to cut the 462,000. Tell them just to cut it off at their budget. You know, don't hold a buffer for us or a cushion. They're calling it a cushion, by the way, a
cushion in their budget, but don't hold us accountable for it. to reduce our you were asked for us to cut by um $462,000. Um we we were explained as to why that could not happen and the reasons were a
couple. One was the town CFO advised for a cushion and they are following the town CFO's recommendation. This is the finance committee that they can choose to follow the recommendations of whoever they want. you know, whatever. It's it's not our not my my my battle to fight. Um
the other the other reason was is is that that I heard is that we need to cut $1.5 million because the select board has already voted their budget with the assumption that we cut $ 1.5 million additional from our budget. So, what our what our what our recommendation to
them, what my sorry, what my recommendation to to them was um was to cut the the 462,000 from your side, take it off of our side. And in the possibility that we exceed the 10,245,000
allocated from the school department in health insurance benefits, if we exceed that, we would have to use some of our general fund money to pay back the town overage. And and I think that kind of happens now like we budget for unemployment. If we go over an
unemployment, we cover the overage from our budget. So uh Medicare is the same way. Medicare is in our budget if we go over the Medicare which is it's a payroll tax. Um we cover that from our budget. So um that was my recommendation
and that is where I will end and leave it leave it back to uh Miss Shapner and Miss Glucas to correct anything I may have misspoken or clarify or enhance upon. >> I don't have anything. Yeah, thanks
Mike. I don't have anything to clarify it, but I just want to so what we Jen and I had differing opinions on this, which is I think we should keep the buffer and kind of move forward and Jen thinks we should remove it. And I just wanted to explain a little bit about
why my position differs from the school admins. Um, I 100% in support and think Mike and John have done a wonderful job throughout this. So, it's not that I think there's kind of anything wrong there, but and I understand from the administration's standpoint why you want
to remove this buffer. Every dollar obviously matters and um your instinct is coming from the right place, but I don't think this is the right path forward for two reasons. First, the select board, like Mike outlined, already voted a budget that assumes the
schools absorb that $462,000 cushion. It's the reality of kind of what we're working with. Second, I don't think that we're in a position to go against the town CFO who has lived and breathed this and her experience and kind of
what's best practice for having a cushion, $300,000 of the 630 being used this year. If we go over that, we have to pay for that in some way within our existing budget. And I think that leaves us with no protection. and that's
something that I'm I don't think is um a position that I'm comfortable with. So, I think while I'm going against the admin's recommendation, I'm doing it because the math, the actuals, and the town's already voted budget all point to me in
the same direction. And I did I I support that because I think having that buffer in protects the schools. We know that the the health insurance is kind of volatile. We know how much it's going up next year. We don't know kind of what that that delta would be, but um I do
want to be kind of unequivocal that I don't want to cut any money from our schools. I don't want to cut $500,000. I don't want to cut a million. Every dollar matters and every person in this room knows what's at stake when we lose those dollars. A teacher, a classroom, a relationship, a kid who doesn't get the
support that they need. Like this does not This weighs heavily on me and it's not a decision that I kind of take lightly. Um but this number has been validated by multiple folks on the benefit side. Our
town um CFO and finance director I think continuing to like battle and nickel and dime these shortterm things doesn't just not help us. It actively hurts us. I think it will risk our relationship with the town. It'll risk our seat at
the table on an override. We'll lose time. It minim minimizes our chances of getting a long-term solution of our schools that we actually need. I think the cost of continuing to like nickel and dime this small amount. It could cost us quite a bit. Um so I don't
support cutting the schools. I don't support this number because it's easy. I recommend it because I think continuing to fight it is a cost that we can't afford right now. And this gives us the be best path best path forward
for supporting our students, our teachers and this community and giving us the best chance at a successful right sizing for multiple years to come. Um that's kind of why that's why I support
keeping the buffer included and moving forward with it as is and going uh against I guess the administration team. >> Um so can I just make a couple quick points? Thanks, Melissa. I I appreciate that and I >> I totally get it. I mean, we're, you know, we are both in agreement on, you
know, 99% of this. I think this is just this one issue. >> Um, one thing I will mention is the select board actually hasn't voted their full budget yet. They have a meeting at 1:00 today um to vote the remaining of their budget. So, I just thought I'd make that at least that's what's posted on the town calendar today. Um, so that
um so I think they voted part of it, but they haven't voted the entire thing. Um but either way I mean it would you know um there'd have to be some shifting g if if we were to make this change. They are expecting this from us. There's that that's that's certainly clear. Um the
other thing I would just want to let the other committee members know is one of the things that um the chair of the finance committee alleg uh talked about is that you know in the event um that there was no buffer and that's not what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting that we
should not be h held responsible for full 63% of that buffer. But if at any point in time there there was an overage in any line item um in any department in the town there is a finance finance committee reserve fund. I think there's
around a half a million dollars in it. And he so what you know he had said Alan said is that um you know the the the school board the school committee could come to fin if we needed that for employee benefits and request that of the finance committee. So there is you know there is I guess a reserve and I
don't think that's what they're suggesting but that certainly you know was out there. So, um, and the only other thing I would ask the committee to consider, this was at the I think at the bottom of this page, um, regardless of what necessarily what we we go forward
with, I I you know, I do think this committee should work hard to con to to over the course of the next year to have the active insurance or at least the health insurance reside in the school department budget. I think that would be in the best interest of the school district um, going forward so that you
aren't faced with this next year. Um, and I think also I I really strongly encourage the school committee to um determine um how to go about getting a representative on the PEC, which is the
public employees committee, which is in current negotiations. This health insurance contract or the I shouldn't say health insurance, the the benefits contract um is expiring June 30th. So there's current active negotiations going on right now. And I I think if
this is the path forward that whether these benefits are held actually in our budget or we are just held to the number like we are this year for the first time ever um we ought to you the school committee ought to have a representative I don't know whether it's Mike or John
or or or a committee member um actively um involved in this because one of the things that's not lost on me Melissa sure not you either is that I don't know what the town side um of their benefits Sorry, I should probably know that. But if our side is 13 million, theirs might be, I don't know, 10 million, whatever
it is that I mean, we have a hund00 million budget in this town. Employee benefits is a very large portion of the overall town budget. This is this supersedes any other to me. It it's been eye openening, which shouldn't have
been. Um, shame on me that I didn't realize this, but it is a very very very um, large part of our budget and needs to be, you know, and I think all sides agree, you know, actively um, looked at and find ways to meet the needs number
one of our employees. Obviously, we need to provide competitive benefits that that support our employees and their health and well-being. Um and but also recognizing um what a major pressure point it is on our budget
because that's got to be paid along with salaries and you know and payroll and then what's left is what you know we educate our students with curriculum filling potholes uh you know removing snow. I mean it's really um you know the the pressure is immense which you know
leads us to you know the discussions around needing to raise the tax levy which is the second part of today's discussion. So anyway I will leave it that. So I wonder if anyone has questions or >> can I just add one those are two points I think you just raised Jen we did talk about it in Wednesday. I think there is
general agreement that the health insurance should reside in the school budget for FY28. We just can't get that framework and operationalize it in this short of a time frame. So I think that's what we will work to do moving forward. Yeah. >> Yeah. Good.
>> We can you hear me? We also can you guys hear me? Yeah. We um I know you got me. Um what I was saying for a while, right? Um you know, we we also we also discussed um being a little bit more planful moving forward too. So having
conversations early on with everybody um making sure that everyone knows where um all the monies stand and who is responsible for what. Um that was the one thing I said in the meeting the other day was that I think moving forward the only way we can do so in in full collaboration is is having solid
communication with the town side with the school side with the all the departments saying you know here here's where the insurance is now here's where it is now here's where you know here's you know all those conversations and not and this isn't blameful so I don't want to have another quote in the paper how
horrible I am but I think um I think uh you know having the conversations to make sure that we're we know so that we're not in the 11th hour again next year um trying to figure this out. This is uh we know next year is going to be bad. This year you this coming year and
you know the following year FY28 is going to be worse. Um so we have to have these discussions early on and frequently with all the parties that need to be involved um so that we're not in this situation next year. And I just feel it's important to have that conversation now um so that we're not
we're starting on the right foot moving forward. So, but yeah, that's all I have to say about that right now. I think the rest of it is um you know, I think I think Jen and Melissa's uh overview of the subcommittee was was accurate. I think we got to a point where there was
general agreement upon where the numbers landed. So, I think that was good. Um, I know Mike's done an enor enormous amount of work trying to get to this uh this this piece and to get the budget numbers where they need to be for the consideration of the committee today. So, I want to thank him again publicly.
So, that's all I have. >> Okay. So, in terms of us approving a budget, we're kind of at I think two possibilities right now. May tell me if I'm oversimplifying it, but it's one with the buffer and one without the buffer. Right. That's where we are right now.
>> Correct. Correct. >> Okay. So, >> does anyone have any questions or I mean any you know this we just kind of threw a lot at you? >> No, thank you for the recap, but I did I did watch the meeting uh recording. So,
I I I I followed along um and it you know it was a good recap. I do have I kind of share Melissa's concerns about about removing this buffer because I'm worried about a couple things. One is
sort of long-term, you know, stability of our budget and sort of create like hollowing out a little space that where we don't know what can go wrong. I mean, we know that there's going to be volatility. we know
that that is unlikely to be reduced. It's probably going to increase. And um I also, you know, if we're going to take on the the benefits,
you know, part of that is including it in our budget. And um and I think that hoping for some kind of relief from the town from an emergency fund. You know, I can hear people saying, you know, that
the the school department can't, you know, they're not providing us with a a realistic budget. >> I like Henry, you know, sort of followed the process. So I'm don't necessarily have questions at this point. And I think I you know understand the options
that are on the table. Um and I think to me what this exposes is that the fact that we are at this faced with this decision around bringing the benefits onto our side of the budget at this juncture in the process.
There are a lot of things that need to be worked out around how that line is budgeted, how the funds in it are managed. And the reality is that I don't think it's in the best interest of our schools to
spend more time now debating it with the town and trying to figure it this out as opposed to accepting that this is the situation we're faced with and we need to really work to come to an agreement. um with FINCOM and the select board
about how those funds will be managed in FY27 um how we can sort of hold them accountable to the things that we were told two weeks ago around you know if there's ends up being surplus it will come back to the schools those sorts of
things and figuring out how we're going to manage budgeting for next year I agree with you know if this is going to sit on our side of the budget I would like to see those lines come over operationally I think we should have a seat at the table in negotiating these benefits. All
of those are things we need to really, you know, put some effort into figuring out, but we have to get through. I mean, town meeting is less than 6 weeks away. We have to get through this process of creating a budget. And you know, like Melissa, you know, I
don't want to cut a single dime from the school budget. And it is very appealing to say, okay, here's an option where we can, you know, reduce the amount that we have to cut, but I think doing that is shortsighted and it's not in the long-term best interest of the district.
And you know, I've sort of observed over the years that as the town's finances have become tighter and there's less flexibility, advocacy for school funding has really started to operate from a scarcity
mentality that focuses on like what can we do to fix this right now and make sure that things are okay in the right now. And it takes the precedent over dealing with longer term planning and, you know, more fixes that are really going to address
the overarching situation that we find ourselves facing year after year. So I am ready to move forward even though this is going to be a really painful process so that we can turn our attention towards you know crafting and advocating for something that has the
potential to actually fix the problem that we're facing as opposed to just minimizing the pain. Um, I would like to put our district into a position where we can, you know, see some stronger future budgeting years. That's sort of where I am on all of this.
>> Yeah. I mean, I I understand that we have to we can't rely on an override. We have to bring a balanced budget to town meeting. um and we want to minimize the impact of that knowing that knowing that the
override is certainly not even close to a guarantee. However, I do think we want to give the override the best chance that we can. And I think, you know, it we finally got the town to agree
to work together with the schools and work as one town to to develop an override that will at least bring us back to where we were and hopefully beyond. And I don't think that us continuing to
argue about this number is helpful to that end. I'd like to make a motion to approve the budget of 60,948. >> It would be so um it would be the the
47620. >> Thank you. Yeah, just so you know, Henry, the administration is recommending a budget of 48,95,896. >> The select board and the finance committee is making a recommendation of $47,620,287
>> and me as well. >> And >> yes, >> and as well yes. Um, so I just want to, you know, I was going to go forward. I, it obviously sounds like it will be an exercise in futility to go forward with the administration recommendation
um, budget of 48,95,896. I would like the record and the minutes to reflect that that is the number that I support. Um, but it is clear that there's no additional support for the administration's recommendation. >> Yeah. So, why don't you finish your
>> your motion if you're so inclined? Um, as long as Jen's um, number is reflected in the record, um, I would like to make a motion to approve the budget of $47,620,
287 for um, by 27. >> I'll second that. >> All right. So, a motion has been made by Henry, seconded by Kate. Uh is there any further discussion?
Can you go ahead? >> I just want to be clear that this proposal that I I presented on Wednesday was was in my opinion budget neutral. It was not meant to divide the town any further. This was we thought it was budget neutral. Hey, it comes off your
side, it comes off our side. It was not intended to to cause a big stir. So, the our intentions were were genuine, not to upset any any plans that were in the in the works. I just want to say that. Okay. This was Yeah, I'll reiterate. >> This was not malic this was not malicious or or intentional. We thought
we were actually helping the situation. I thought that was helping the situation. This was my recommendation. Um, so yeah, I I I will add to what Mary said in public comment earlier. I'm incredibly proud of the work that you've put into this and the work that and the
work you've done with the town. It has not been easy and um I I appreciate it. I think that the work that you've done is what's going to empower us to get, you know,
the funding that we really need. It's it's things that people demand to see and we've been showing it to them. So I I I appreciate it from from the bottom of my heart. So wasn't looking for I just >> I wanted I wanted to you know any >> this was Thank you.
>> Any further discussion? >> All right we'll go to a roll call vote. Um >> Melissa start with you >> in favor. >> Jen >> in favor. >> Henry >> in favor. >> Kate >> in favor.
>> Al is in favor. So the motion passes five to zero. Thanks everyone. >> Yeah, thank thank you. Thank you budget subcommittee. >> Thank you Melissa. That was you know I think we >> No, I agree. Jen >> got a little heated but you know you know we got through it
>> and it's this is just it's hard these are hard. >> It's the reality of an unfortunate situation. Yeah. >> Okay. Um so we'll move on to the override. Did the budget subcommittee address this at all or is it something
>> you can just start the process? Is it >> Well, I >> No, we didn't we didn't talk about >> Okay. Just wanted to make sure that was the case. Thank you, Melissa. So, >> and I haven't caught up on all the meetings, but my understanding is that there's going to be a committee from the town that will address the override and
it was discussed at the select board. >> Yeah, I believe they proposed that they would start meeting next week. Okay. Um, so >> I believe that I I didn't see the meeting, but I saw some recaps of it in the press, etc. It sounds like they
presented and I don't know if anyone was there. >> Yeah, Henry and I were there, so I'm happy to give a recap, too. Yeah. >> Yeah. Did they do tiers or I don't know if you >> Yeah. So, they agreed to three tiers. The tiers would be multi-year kind of comprehensive. They made a motion to include the schools and the town
override. So, I think we now need need to just start the conversation on what would we want in those tiers. And they they tasked Thatcher with establishing a working group, which I think would be two school committee members, two select board members, um, FINCOM, um, a couple
of FINCOM members, and then obviously the other town departments to basically come to the table next week with those dollar amounts and kind of start hammering out what would be included in each of those tiers. >> Yeah. And just >> probably talk about who we want to be involved on our side. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And and the the tiers that they sort of outlined and again they this is rough outlines but tier one was a resto was called restore. So you know again I won't speak to the specifics of that because there are um tier 2 was titled
stabilize and build. So that's sort of restore plus and then tier three was called invest and improve. And I mean, I don't know if we need to get into the specifics of how those three tiers work when they're being voted on, but
essentially the tier that has that passes a majority of the or not majority passes >> the highest >> the highest tier tier that gets more than 50% of the vote is the amount that
gets >> correct. And the the higher tiers include everything in the lower tiers. So tier three includes tier uh two and one, you know, in in the case where tier 1 gets let's say 75% of the
vote and tier 2 gets 52% of the vote, tier 2 would be the the override that passes. I think um to go back a little bit, we need it's good for us to start having conversations about how we want to
approach the override. I think we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we do still need to work with our admin team, you know, to eventually approve a line item budget and to some extent the decisions that we make around that and
how we are, you know, getting to the 47 million that we just approved is going to influence what we need to include in an override. Um and I think we still
don't entirely know you know this my understanding is that this advisory committee or working group whatever it's being followed is sort of responsibility. Um so I don't know that we should be selecting people to participate so much
as maybe confirming that the committee as a whole is in favor of exploring this option with the town and participating in that working group. Um, and I think as chair Al can sort of communicate with that and figure out, you know, what this is going to look
like and what they need from us, you know, whether it's committee members participation or, you know, administrators and obviously whatever's, you know, put together by that group is going to have to come back before our committee for, you know, discussion and deliberation and hopefully ultimately.
>> Yeah. Is that I mean I wonder if that is that how it works because we have a warrant article you know placeholder but if it's going to if the slip board it's you said Melissa they actually voted >> they made a motion. Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. So that they would include the
school. So I'll in in theory if we went along with we agreed with that which I don't know if that's what this committee want but if we do we would need to vote to indefinitely postpone ours. Um, and I guess the only the question I would have too is around like Hem you mentioned
tier one is a restore but the question is restore what I mean we you know we made cuts back in you know January of $2.6 $6 million then we did additional cuts. So, you know what's considered? >> They talked about that, Jen, on the town
side where there definitely has been efficiencies that were gained in the process that they don't want to restore the efficiencies that were found. And I think I I feel the same way on the school side, like efficiencies that we found, we would not restore back, but maybe there's some amount. So, I think they intentionally left the restore language a bit vague.
>> Okay. >> Purposely because we don't want to restore everything that we know like spend that was not being used efficiently and kind of can walk that line the right way. And that I think we would need input from our clearly from the administration, >> right? Yeah, >> we would I I would be depending on that.
So >> seem a little premature. I don't know if that's a word, but I don't know. I guess yeah, I guess we probably might want to see how they how they want to go forward. >> So I think having an understanding of of that a little bit more a better understanding of that piece. I
understood the tier, understood the restore, but those questions are are valid. Jen, is it restored back to our starting point of a level service budget or is restored back to the level fund budget? That's that's the biggest question, right? So, um, and those are conversations like I mean the school
committee just voted on on the budget number that Mike and I now have to work with. So, like 30 seconds ago. So, obviously we have we have a little bit of work to do. We started some of that work. the um >> the presentation that we kind of sort of had ready to go last time is this kind of gave us some options, but I think
Mike and I need you know we're gonna have to come back with a level line of budget for the school committee's um edification and vote at some point and I think part of that has to be what would what would restore look like? What would tier 2 look like? What would tier three look like from from our perspective? Um
>> well yeah especially tier three which is a what is it? like that sounds like it's even more than potentially a level services budget. >> That's how it sounded to me too when I when I read when I read through the materials and stuff. Um so I I just I we would need to have a little bit more
clarification on that. Is that what it is? Um cuz I again you 11th hour stuff I I I don't really I want to be able to do the work we need to do that's focused on what it is we're trying to accomplish, right? So I I don't want I this can't be guesswork at this point. Like what is a
tier three? cuz my my idea might be vastly different than the school committee's idea, might be vastly different than the town idea or the union's idea. So, um that's important piece. So, I think now that we know the number um that's helpful and then I think we can we can start honing in on
some of the um some of the items from the presentation that Mike put together for the last meeting or the two meetings ago. Um and just kind of really start figuring out where the dollars and cents go. you know, that's combinations of, you know, could be combinations of of
staffing cuts, more staffing cuts and programming and prepays. It could be, you know, different menu items. So, we we need to do that work, I think, to have a full-fledged conversation to be honest with you. But >> just so that >> I like the idea that you know I and so
we have a little bit more detail from Thatcher it sounds like in this particular case I will work with him around who would be the right the right membership both from the school committee and the administration. Well, do we want do we have to make a
motion to participate in this uh working group next week and to assign someone to like do we want to assign the chair to assign members and just be ready to >> Well, do we need school committee? I mean, I don't know. Is that what it would seem to me it would be
administrative folks? I think where a school committee would come into play probably is like if we're looking at the tiers and the tiers wind up the amounts being too high or something, there's going to be a little bit of horse trading that has to take place with like >> I don't know
who gets what in each of the tiers. I would hope that like directionally 63% of the tiers should be the schools and whatnot like that should probably there should be some framework going into it. But maybe that's what maybe that's where it would come into play. I don't know. I do just want to say just so everyone
understands and has the kind of baseline understanding. I spoke to Alec and Molly after the meeting on Wednesday and basically because I was like how is Mike going to know what the override amounts are? He has the budget amounts but he doesn't have the projected revenue amounts and what allocation will be coming to the schools to inform what
that override amount would be. So I asked them to put together a framework of what they expect free cash to be over the next few years, what they expect kind of revenue to look like so that the town and the schools are starting from the same assumptions on topline revenue and allocation to inform what those
calculations could be. So we're not again like swirling a bit at the end and saying like we use different inputs than they did and we're all kind of using the same foundational um framework and they thought that was a good idea and they're going to move forward with putting that together. Um well, I'll make a motion um to move
forward with the select board in preparing a joint override >> um and to have the chair coordinate the committee's participation in the town administrator's advisory group.
>> I'll second. >> Right. So, we have a motion made by Kate, seconded by Melissa. Uh any discussion, further discussion? All right, we'll move to a vote. Uh Melissa, we'll start with you. >> In favor, >> Jen
>> in favor. >> Henry in favor. >> Kate >> in favor. >> Al in favor. The motion passes 5. >> Um we're going to be asking a a lot of you over the next couple weeks. Um
I know. Well, I I hate the idea of coming to you and saying, "Hey, in in two weeks, can you envision what you want the schools to look like in three years and please give us specific dollar amounts of what that
costs?" But essentially that's sort of what >> I think we understand the the the timing of the world right now of of town time meeting right we I think we >> I did prepare some sort of
overview notes of of what I thought an an override could look like in terms of broad strokes and areas if if that's something you're interested but I think we have to be sure that tier one
provides us with what we need. I mean, we have to be happy if tier one passes and ecstatic if tier two passes and and so on. >> Or tier three. >> Yeah. Right. Exactly. >> Over the moon that,
you know, because we can't we can't ask for another override in two years. You know, we know we have um we have projected salary obligations and benefits increases that that are musthaves in addition to
obviously restoring the cuts that that you're going to be proposing with the the new budget and what may be salvaged from the level funded budget that you presented in February. Um, in tier 2, I was hoping to include
full day kindergarten. You've priced that out. It's it's a number that is easy for people to digest. It were the outliers in, you know, not funding that. Um, I think that if we could ask Lisa
Marie what programs she would recommend in special ed to help reduce our out of district tuition, that's something that hopefully starts to pay for itself and again makes fiscal sense to voters. I think >> you want that in tier two, Henry. This
is all >> Yeah, I think this is Yeah, I think tier one is like, you know, restoring. I mean it's called the the select board called it restore. So so let's take that as the spirit of that tier. I mean we haven't
had any conversations so I'm >> the 1.7 and the 1.5 maybe. I don't know like in other words >> yeah that's >> exactly. Yeah >> the original 2.6 again Mike and John don't like take this as gospel but we
did 2.6 six that seemed maybe that maybe that is um some right sizing and stuff but then we did another 1.7 and then today we did another 1.5 so >> that's 3.2 too that >> so so I think I think part of this discussion I think it's great to have
you know these thoughts and I I'd love I'd love to kind of go through to see what folks are thinking I think you know there's some similar thought processes um to what you were saying Henry I think I think when we start getting level two level three um it just gets a little bit more I think the more tangible we can be
like special ed stuff absolutely I think you know but the >> putting a tangible number on that is almost an impossibility right so in someone that a lot of the work that is already being done as a matter of course since Lisa Marie and Victoria and myself got here around the specialized stuff is
is already in process. So, you know, there's things like that. I think we just need to have further conversations. I think the, you know, I would hope that the committee would kind of, you know, um allow me to kind of reflect to you of what I feel would be necessary to in a
restore and then a, you know, level of tier two or tier three as part of the discussion. Um, >> oh, absolutely. >> Because I think it's I think it's important to kind of, >> you know, we haven't Mike and I haven't had a chance to sit with our own team, honestly, in the last two weeks to kind
of even re revisit any of this discussion. So, now that we have the number and now that we can look at what our level, what we had to cut and reduce to get to level funded, what we kind of need to cut and reduce to get to the 1.5. And then what does that look like? And what do we actually need to restore?
What we want to restore? what it's potential to restore. Um I think I think Jen just used the used the word right size. There's that that initial that initial level fund number is including right sizing that we need to do regardless of any of this other budget
discussion. Absolutely. Like even if we weren't talking an override or anything like that. Um you know we started here together doing a level service budget going into the school year. You know we were already looking at where are the efficiencies where some of the things we need to how do we need to rightize some of that stuff. So, we were forced to do
that through being asked to level fund a budget. Um, and I I I'm sure folks won't be happy they say this, but like it's it's almost it's almost a good thing that we were forced to kind of really look at some of those some of those um efficiencies because, you know, I think some of the narrative in the town has
been schools just keep you know, they they never do that. They never do the right sizing. They haven't done the right size. They just keep adding on adding on adding on. So I think being newer to the district but knowing that there are always efficiencies we need to look at um and over a period of time you
do a lot of those efficiencies through attrition right we don't have the luxury of attrition right now with with the budget crunch the town is in so forcing us on the level funded piece forc us to do some of that right sizing quicker than we would like to however I think it that becomes this my opinion that
becomes almost the starting point you know um just but that's that's my unadulterated without really >> absolutely um I just want to add anything that I was sharing here is really just meant to I'm I'm trying to provide some
>> some initial guidance because I know we're asking a lot of you so yeah absolutely you know >> the the suggestions are yours >> yeah I think it's great no I I and >> I'll share this with you in an email and and just that way we can
>> I actually think It could be a really awesome opportunity for your team. I mean, we've had years now of our administrators having to make the numbers work. >> And I would love to know, you know, if you guys sit around a table and talk
about, you know, if we can ask for what we think our district really needs, what do you come up with? I would >> love to hear it. >> I mean, I think to your point, Kate, I think I think that that Yes. And it's a great, you know, in um sort of bad times
is opportunity, but this is the first year and I just I'm going to keep, you know, harping on this that we've actually cut a budget. You know, in the past, we've always had an increase in our budget. Now, it might not have been, you know, everything we wanted. It might not have been a full level services where we've had less than the
contractual obligations and we've but we've always had an increase. And so working within those numbers, you know, superintendents have, you know, have worked hard to do that, but this is, you know, this is really brand new territory where we are literally cutting our
budget by millions of dollars from the previous year. And it's, you know, I know it's not lost on anybody. And the only um thing I would also um mention, John, I'm sure this case that you have and will have conversations with the union leadership on this because and you
know obviously they're you know highly affected by this. So >> So I I you know I'll say in public I meet with them um regularly and we have we have conversations and now that we know where the number is it'll be helped to inform those deeper conversations. I
think no we've already had we've already started discussing kind of what things would look like. I know we've talked about timelines for, you know, you know, any uh cuts that we need to make and just kind of we we've we've already started those conversations. So, I feel I mean, as good as I can feel about
cutting this kind of stuff from the budget, but at least um I'm not doing it in a silo. We're we're having we're having discussions around, you know, what that might look like. >> Yeah. And I'm sure I'm sure those are not, you know, easy discussions. So, John and Mike, is it would it be appropriate to ask for you to have the
the the details for the budget that we just approved for fiscal year 27 by March 9th? >> Impossible. April >> that's all good in >> that reasonable. >> So, it sounds like we're going to have a
similar agenda as we had today, right? Get to the >> We'll come back with 49. 4927 and then we'll discuss where we are around the override. >> Correct. Um yes, we we'll be prepared to to >> be uh we also would that would I think the
deadline on that is the warrant hearing. >> The warrant hearing is April 6th. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, um, >> Finong did say they could have another warrant hearing and they were intending to probably closer to town meeting, but yeah. >> Yeah, they said they were like, "Oh, we
don't we'll probably do another one the week before, but we should still Yeah. keep that date in our minds, I think." >> And the select discussion was around >> Thatcher coming back on April 8th with override details. So to the extent we're
trying to coordinate with that, it's not happening before the warrant hearing for the select board anyways. >> Oh, so yeah, maybe they're going to or maybe they will table those those warrant items and then have a you know that would be my guess handful of ones for the overrides. Um the other thing
I'd mention um Al in your as you move forward with conversations with Thatcher and you know who the working group's going to be. We still have that capital um outlay uh article hanging out there and there's still been discussions or questions around capital. My understanding is
they've zeroed out not my understanding I think finance committee chair confirmed that that they've zeroed out any capital outlay from the general fund budget for fiscal 27. So if there's going to be any capital outlay, it would probably be in
the form of another form of revenue, i.e. an override. So um that might also need to be part of the discussion. I didn't know I don't know if that was discussed at the select board meeting, but >> you know, we've got a couple million in capital requests.
>> All right. Mike, did you Mike, did you ever reach out to Alicia on Wednesday when we started kind of briefly touching on the capital requests and if we would be included in the town or not? >> So, I did I did get a response from her. Um, we're still I I'm still looking for
some additional clarification. >> Um, so um we are included, but what of our asks are included? I'm still trying to >> ascertain because we we if you recall we the administration presented a list of
capital needs and we prioritized them >> knowing that there you know knowing that not everything can happen in one year. Um so I I was and after this meeting I will be following back up with her to identify which of
which if if it was just tier one if it was tier one and tier two of our proposal if it was half a tier one I'm not I can't answer that. So, that's where I'm working on next. But I did confirm that the schools are included in the town's plans for a capital
funding. I and and again, I don't know what that looks like. I don't want to speak um irresponsibly and in and guess that of what that looks like. Okay. All right. Um does anyone have any
correspondence items? All right. Uh, looking for a motion to adjurnn. >> All right. Moved by, uh, Kate, seconded by Henry. Second. >> All in favor. I guess we have to do a roll call. Melissa >> in favor.
>> Jen >> in favor. >> Henry >> in favor. >> Kate >> in favor. >> Pal in favor. The motion passes. 5-0. Thank you everyone. >> 11. >> Thanks everyone. >> Thanks. >> Have a good weekend. Thank you.