Okay, we are now live streamed. Yes, I will be. >> All right, let's say >> yeah, >> student panelist. Okay, welcome. So, I called desk to order at 105 budget subcommittee for the school committee and the fincom schools budget liaison
committee. Um, in the room we have Pat Franklin, we have Melissa Clucas, school committee, Molly Tits, um, Fincom, Michael Piferling, assistant superintendent of operations and finance, Jen Shaner, school committee, John Robu, superintendent, and Aleby,
chair of fincom. Um, so welcome everyone. Um, first thing we have is public comment. Does anyone want to make a comment? If you are in, if you're online, please raise your hand. >> Yes.
>> Okay. Public comment. For the record, I asked for public comment and there is no comment. Okay. Moving on to um our agenda. So, Mike had put together these items for us to talk about. So, I didn't
know if you guys had specific items you that it would fall under hopefully under these items. And >> I would just say like fiscal year uh 27 school budget planning like we're still very early in this process which we have we have want to present that's helpful and then I can add two cents afterwards.
Okay. About >> preliminary y >> um but also just some things that like we're focused on as we enter this budget. >> Okay. Great. And just welcome everyone. This is really the kickoff to the exciting FY27 budget process season. So
looking forward to it. Um Mike, so you want to start with FY25 school department closeout update? >> Sure. Uh just is that is that recording us? Is that >> that's not recording us? My laptop is >> People can hear us. >> Yes. >> Okay. um just from the um
FY25 closeout. I gave a report to the full school committee uh about a month ago and I had estimated some numbers. Uh you know, I said we're still waiting for the town to do some transfers. I believe the majority of the transfers have been done. So, as of right now, we are returning $466,000
to the town and I believe that goes back to free cash. mistaken. It should >> so it was it was going to be less than that, but Alicia did some transfers um of our expenditures to hit the ARPA funding because uh the ARPA needed to be
spent down. So, um it's there were some items that were purchased prior in December of 2024 that Alicia reclatified and put them under our instead of our funding. Um 466 is the number of >> I did the LEA.
>> That's the LEA. That's correct. Y >> what is that? >> Local educational agency, >> the school district. Uh and just for the record, Lee, I know you're out there. Um we did not have any um handouts or any documents for this. Michael had Mike had given us these topics and I looks like
he's speaking from some some stuff, but we don't have any handouts. If there's anything that you share with us, I will make sure it's it's um posted online, but so far we don't have any actual documents. >> I printed the last page of the report. >> This is really just like a high level um
kind of synopsis of each of these topics. >> Yep. >> All right. So, that's my close out of 25. >> Did we actually do that? >> Uh I don't >> should we talk about that high level? We
could probably revisit it, but it's as we build the budget or as you build the budget to, you know, how we like to see like budget actual and this year's budget and like actual maybe a few years back. So, so you say there's 500 going back to the schools. There's presumably
some of there's some presumably some variation between like line items. We prep tition, >> right? We prepaid tuitions. We um throughout the negotiations we had an unpaid day for most of our staffs that have salary um surplus
don't like that word but there's some salary special education was not budgeted properly properly for a known kids out of district um none of us own that we none of us are here right um >> would that have been an expense or was that >> yeah so there was right so there's
surpluses on right so the flush out is $466,000 We were over in some categories. We are under when we built I mean we'll get to my view of things um in a in a minute here in a little bit. Um, but I think
when we built this budget last year, which was the first budget that you were fully involved in since since starting, right? Um, we talked about that, right? Like I think when we talked about building salaries and wages line last year, I thought it was a lot closer than where we thought we'd actually land and
I think you adjusted the special education last year as well. I recall this last non what I'm saying is that you were acknowledging that this was going to happen. So it doesn't surprise me as well. So thank you
>> the FY25 report will that event that will get you and that will show actual budget >> right? Yeah. >> Do you have a breakdown by like sort of by line item? >> So I can I can do it. So I have it by line but I can also do it by category
being salary professional salary um we have salaries broken into three categories professional salaries clerical salaries which this is a desi thing I'm not sure why and then all other salaries all the salaries to me are nonliced professionals so um anybody has a desi
license would be a licensed professional that's professional salaries clerical salaries and then all other salaries and it goes from instructional assistants custodians lunch hours um maintenance workers secretary
there but it's all other nonliced uh employees so I can salary categories for two but I break down those >> then I've got contracted services which are to me I always tell people if you
can't touch it it's a contracted service uh and we have supplies if you can touch it it's tangible then it this supply item. Uh, and then we have others other the former budget had a lot of stuff just sucked into other um and hopefully
we'll get that into the correct categories moving forward but there's a lot of money that's just in other they're legitimate expenses but the way they're classified from Jessie standpoint of education standpoint is that um they should probably contract
services or supplies. Well, yeah. And I know it's a big puzzle for me at least with how Desi reports versus how we budget general fund. If they're following accounts, there's all sorts of reporting that confuses things and it's not easy. All I would ask is I can share
the final budget from the year that just closed. I want like the budget to actual that the same number or two. the number I get from this town in all directions, never tied to anything I've seen in the past. >> So, we need to line up like this is what
we budget. If you look at the fit and report every year, look at the town budget that gets voted on a town meeting. There's one line with schools, right? Which is fine, but we have the detail behind that. Last year when we did budget, the actual the numbers weren't tied. You were like, "This is
what they gave me, right?" >> Yeah. And I was like, well, we I'm like I'm very dialed into these numbers. So, I'm I'm finalizing this in this room three years ago or whenever it was two years ago, knowing we signed off on this this budget. Do we all agree? I just
want to make sure that's what is lined up against the actual. I'll give you an example of this is going to be a process and and it's hopefully it's a short process but the way things were coded in soft instructional assistance or um also
we call OTA therapist assistants speech and language assistants and physical therapy assistants I had some some of those categories of employees who who were coded as professional salary professional salary So they didn't have
a license but they were coded the wrong way. We have now gone through and cleaned that all up. Problem is it's not going to kick in until this year accurate. Ideally, it would be perfect for yours because presumably there's some underlying connection points
like the most detailed single line every mult. But we'll show you the budget that we've signed off on for the last five years. pretty much same format if it's every single salary and then there's a total salary number and that's it all comes
down to the total amount we vote at war and at town meeting but then I think when we see budget to actuals like later on sometimes the numbers have shifted categories like oh budget like actual
>> but the budget budget does actual does because I've got a line for retirement Yeah, you can. >> So, I need to take out that retirement and reallocate it. You know, we have each other $12,000 a year on salary and rehire somebody at 60%.
>> The budget doesn't change. >> Are you saying that the final budget numbers didn't foot? >> In the past, they have >> like getting something out of soft versus some Excel doc we signed off on the year before. So, so what's gonna
happen is yes mass because you know the thing is still that that this year we have to do that kind of moving stuff. So >> yes budget actual budget is going to be accurate as you can and we have to put things in certain categories based on
what Jesse tells us too. So it's not necessarily line up exactly where you would want it to, but it has to for our reporting. So, and I'm not interested in doing separate budget things. So, people, you know what I mean? We need to we need to report to
present budget the way >> is that going to be a problem foring actuals versus budget for this >> 26 >> what I don't want to do is what I don't want to do is everyone say oh well yeah we're off up here because we're just comparing against the wrong thing like
we should be able to marry together. Yes. And and that's my goal for because of the mun conversion. We are still going to be a little bit messy this year in FY27. We'll be fully on MUN. Everybody all the set up. All the accounts set up where they can pay it
out. >> Right now soft and then Alicia is going to crosswalk that into MUN which we haven't done for the first four months now. Three and a half three and a half months into the year. They so we have no data in Mun right now for salaries.
Everything's still sitting soft, right? Until they crosswalk that over. And that's going to be messy as I can't even imagine a relationship have to go through to do that. It's going to be very messy because the account numbers are the new account numbers and the budget in is set up with the new account
numbers in the right categories. Meaning professional salaries are professional salaries and nonprofessional salaries and non that's how I budget. It's all clean and mun is it wasn't clean and soft. So to get it from soft over to Mun is going to be messy 100%. But
>> we don't care. We don't ever see that. We just see what you report to us. School committee doesn't have any frankly it will done a great job of like what he walked into and then manipulated in the communication collaboration last year.
It's been an awesome night and I think this year is going to be better and the next year is going to be even better because once he's fully immunist and everyone's talked to each other the right way and you can run it's going to be all
>> but I show so I'm showing one thing is you're going to send out the FY2 closeout report to I guess all of us. Um yes. Yes. Okay. Y >> um anything else on that? >> And and just you know this because
you're in finance, but when we look at a budget request, it's very helpful to see the prior year actual and the budget before we finalize approval. Right. So budget actual budget because it's like
budget budget's going up by 10% and we were 7% under actual online and then it's like what's going on >> right my spreadsheet does have years of history unfortunately >> we're right of of my spreadsheet of my
spreadsheet my spreadsheet tabs it has staffing budget tab for staffing for each building a tab for budget for each I've got years in the past that I could share whether >> um so FY25 income updates anything >> um
>> 25 so last year >> I guess from what perspective >> I just when I put the I put what I wanted on the agenda >> for school department I said well if I have maybe fin comments if you have report.
>> I have one question. Is free cash been certified? >> No. No, it's similar process, but no certified. >> That's true. It's October. So, when do we normally is it like a November? >> When do we normally? >> No, I'm sorry. When Okay. When do you
think free cash will be certified? >> I've been putting a hard deadline of 1231 or bust. I would hope at least by January, February, but it's uh last year was May. So, >> and Alex has been meeting with the
treasur. I mean, all summer he's been really trying to push this forward. >> Yeah. >> Can I um ask a question about FY25 >> the um the revolving the revolving funds? >> Yes. >> Um
we have those >> we don't reconcile the cash in those accounts. We have them reconciled for what we believe those to be >> for end of 525. We have revenue funds and we have expenditure funds. We fully
control the expenditure funds. Uh to some extent we are uh at the town's reliance for the revenues. So revenues can come in at designated where they're supposed to go. That is say expecting a
deposit for $20,000 for a grant or for a rolling fund or something else. And sometimes stuff comes in and it's just not labeled properly. So we chase it and chase it. So theoretically we tell them what we're expecting and when it comes in they say, "Where do you want to deposit it?" We tell them where to
deposit it. Um I do I do know that there's been a couple of times that there's been money upstairs or upstairs or funds, not money. It's not cash, right? It's it's deposits upstairs that have come from the state or from another uh electronic funds transfer or there's a check that comes in for $10,000. We
know it's a scholarship fund. We know they want intended to be going to a scholarship, but they didn't designate who the scholarship is. Sometimes you get the check coming right from the bank. It doesn't say who actually issued the check. So, if we get a check from a person, it says, you know, Mrs. John, boom, no problem. Check from Eastern
Bank. It doesn't necessarily say who the person holding. So, we have to do some tracking issues. >> Have those accounts been reconciled? Do we know? >> So, uh, balance boards came out last week. So yes, just to to the to to that extent, yes, we have loaded the balance
forwards on the revolving accounts into Munis. I did I did that just for Melissa's perspective because she's new and this is like a full fin across schools in every departmentwide. >> Prior to maybe three years ago, FINCOM
review was very limited to the general fund budget. >> And we've, like I said, it's taken years for this seam. We get better and better. We don't know everything full of but we started saying well well how do revolving accounts impact this right
like how are we signing off on budgets at requests from the general fund which is paid for primarily by property taxes without looking at the other side of the books um we through Michelle Preset got like a threeyear roll forward of the
schools wereing the cats and the uh the grants right I think the grants are a little bit less in terms of balance that move forward like generally the grants get paid. >> Revolving independence though end every year with a balance and then they start
growing again just like a budget right and then amount Michelle had done a very detailed exercise we put it in Excel we asked a ton of questions a couple years ago and then Mike independently had kind of rolled from what he got and they sorted a lot. So that is I mean we'll
get to the three things that I'd like to focus on but that's one of the things just can we continue that practice is all >> can we roll those accounts and then have a discussion in this process about this is why this balance is here this is what we expect to come in and this is what
we're kind of pay out of it but before we get to the general fund course that to me >> so yes the data >> I have the balance boards in there within the LEA budget. I actually have offsets for the revolving funds. You can
see that kindergarten kindergarten we charge for tuition. So tuition money comes in half of all kindergarten teacher and instructional assistance salaries are paid out of the first time ever seen that any town department that you see in the general fund budget. This is what it costs for
this line item and then there's a negative to say we have something else to pay for. That's that's transparent >> but just just in that conversation involving is different involving comp different reasons. So it's not always that specific offset like
you may have certain certain animal so it has to be different conversations it's not across the board so and just a lot of this kind of reviews stem from stuff I I always hear stuff around town
citizens and and they'll be like the town all the towns are funds and like you got to be prepared with this information from your perspective perspective and want to say that before the 10 people meeting and start spreading false rumors, right? So that's
why we just try to get behind it because then we can stand up if there are any of those questions and say we spend hours on this school and we sign off on 100%. Do we have a list of that or that'll maybe be part of our budget workshop for
FY27 is of all the revolving funds would they cover any that would be helpful because there's a bunch of new administrations. >> Well, you know the school lunch changed a couple years ago and now everything's free, right? So you get more money from the state.
>> It's not free. It's tax but yeah much like is there anything in the general fund we can pay for you guys something right >> yes00
others >> on top we can we can talk about >> okay um can I move on to the FY26 six year budget update. >> So I did do a bud I had prepared a budget update um for last for Wednesday night's meeting last Wednesday night.
Unfortunately didn't get on the agenda. So um it will be presented at the um 30th 30th the meeting on the 30th. Um just to give you a current update um we have an unexpended balance of $2.8
million right now in the FY26 budget. Um I have encumbered salaries to the best of my ability without having the ability to use MUN to do that. So um come January 1, we should be able to encumber all salaries through Munis when we flip
payroll over to Mun. Um so 28 is currently un uh uncommitted in our budget. So what I will caution is that we did prepay a million in special education tuitions. So theoretically we
have about 1.8 unended that had we not prepaid the tuition we would have 1.8. >> Oh so why wouldn't it just be 1.8 I mean we did pay it. Why is it unextended? >> It's it's now surplus.
>> Oh right. So it could be forward. >> So if at the end of this year we still have 1 million left over prepaid tuition. I think they would pay 900,000 if 1.0 1 million like 1 million 10,000 or 1 million.
>> Um just just so folks know that's actually ahead of the game especially the way stuff works and the way some have the ability to pay that one million
plus really helps us. So for oh my god $250,000 came in and we have to come back to town. So that allows us to kind of mitigate. >> Melissa, have you been briefed on that whole special ed out of district? Okay. So that's something.
>> Yeah, I think it's important to know because like my main topics which I'll summarize at the end. I don't have to go into detail at the end if I interject since we're on this topic. Um, that's one thing that I think we've done a good job
of discussing the full picture of of the the out of district tuition and transportation, right? I would love if you could just for one year put together like a three-year actual every expense paid for that and where it came from
whether it was from the prepayment from the year before the service other accounts general fund budget and then concluded as to why the number of general fund budget is here that's right and I think you sort of did that
we worked and the issues is that like in the past before the new administration you guys were here we talked about this a lot we need to just we need to understand it so we can get behind it so that there's nobody questioning that we do a roster
we have a roster of every child who is out of district currently out of district we have their age because at age 22 they age out of they age out of our responsibility They become the responsibility of the state at that point or some other one. Correct. >> So we have every student, every date of
birth, every place where they are and we have the current year's tuition rate. >> Then we put a factor on it for the next year. >> And told us 3.04%. >> 3.4.4. Well, it was 14% this year, wasn't it?
>> I looked at your expertise and I'm not going to challenge that. I trust that it's more so how it's able >> I think how it gets budgeted and are we thinking about if you're if you're expecting let's say it's January you're finalizing your budget I'm going to get
sign off of April but um and you're putting into the general fund for out of district tuition and transportation but you know right then that you're going to prepay a bunch of money from the year before. How does that factor into your decision?
does not. So that is I just and if it does not that's fine. I just want to see the data and an explanation as you want to keep repaying. You would want to put some amount in to like stay. So basically what I don't want
to tell what was going on for years and years years ago in every department it's like last year's budget was this and then this year's budget. There's no like detail behind your new budget. And I think this is such a big number
and such a confusing piece. It's worth it kind of summary specializes. [Music] But so I think the prepaid thing, you know, all things are equal, that's easy to say. But like just for instance, if a
kiddo shows a problem, say they're in a 1200 program, which is outside the district, and they need a higher level of care and they go to residential, you're going from like a $70,000 tuition to potentially almost $300,000 tuition and that's unplanned, right? So those
district Well, that's not exactly true. The sending doesn't understand, >> but like we have a 100% circuit breaker reserve. We have other revolving accounts of balances that can't be paid for those things. So, are we thinking about are we over reserving? I challenge
Alicia. How how much do I challenge when she underestimates I'm like, do we need to be that far under? >> Yeah, but don't forget 2019. I'll never forget 2019 and that was a disaster and that can never happen again where we were $900,000 in the hole in
>> but I guarantee you I don't know how it just perfectly put together was not done when 20 minutes >> no but we also had a massive increase in district replacements that we had accounted for I support the circuit breaker I think we
looked it up when we learned about this not that the school didn't know we we didn't know how it all worked a few years And we found like a memo from another town's school finance director to the select board and they had done all sorts
of um research about pounds and and who has 100% reserves who has 80%. It's very good practice to have. >> So I can say Mike's done a good job of making sure that the reserves are what we what they need to have need to be
quote unquote but like you can you can carry over a certain percentage. So you can't like you can't use that until but you have to have that reserve because like like I said that one kid moved in and you had million dollar in there and also your 300,000 you just whacked
>> our current FY26 out of district placement budget it's like four million or a lot of >> that's just that's just the tuition transportation is getting >> I say all
you never cost of transportation is skyrocketed. >> Um so out of district tuitions for this current year are budgeted at >> um 5.125 million >> and that is
>> 10% of our budget. Not for kids. So that doesn't the prepayment. It doesn't reflect what will come out of circuit breaker. It's the budget. So how much we're going to pay is so the offsets I'm talking about the
offsets. So So 5.125 million is our budget. That's that's what we need. >> We're taking 1.563 of that out of circuit breaker. So there's a negative the total out of the local fund >> is 3.562
this year's budget out of local fund >> without factoring in the prepayments and everything >> without factoring in prepay but taking so it's 5.125 3.5 coming out of town's budget and 1.56 coming out of service and I'm fine if
that's the approach and and we don't acknowledge the prepayments in this budgeting world as long as we document that this is why we're doing that. Like, does this make sense to do that? And it sounds like there might be a methodology that all schools use to do that. We can't rely on prepayments, but let's
just document that and then be able to attend and listening to us, which is like one >> we won't ask that question. I don't I've been involved at town meeting of everybody looking around like but let me get a
budget out trying to get like let's be prepared for that. >> So on top of the 5.125 we're going to spend another 1.23 million in transportation. So 20% 2025% of our out of district cost is an addition an
additional 25% is in transportation. >> So is that including so the the fund right used for that. So is that is that or is that the total budget? >> So total budget is 1 2 37. We're taking 241,000 of that out of the idea. So it
leaves >> that's a federal grant. So just under 1 million is coming out of the town's budget >> and 250 240,000 is coming out of the last. Can I just make one comment real
quick in regards to the prepayment which I understand you want the narrative but >> I think that what we're doing like we report the budget this is what we budgeted this is what we pay for it's coming from here it's going there something happens and we don't have money at the end of the year to prepay >> we have to be bud like
>> like it's like we'll put it in our budget by 27 >> we may not have be able to prepay we've got to have it in our budget >> that Just like if it got to a point like hypothetically which it won't if you prepaid so much that it covered the
whole amount then you know that >> yeah well that's not probably fiscally >> prepayments can only be you can you can prepay three months of a private school >> and one year of a public school. So public school being a collaborative we have some kids some of our students are
at collaborives. Yeah majority of our students are schools. >> So you could you wouldn't be able to do that. private school is private special education school and say this is why we have not factored that into this number and and we cannot
be guaranteed we'll get that this is what we did last year but it's not guaranteed that this is the number so it's not shown as such a material amount >> and to your point you'd never be able to prepay at all because you're not allowed >> to know that again this >> the The way that we've talked about this
today, it probably doesn't seem that confusing, but the the years of us asking questions to even get to me, I still don't understand it fully. >> I don't either. I don't understand circuit breaker. >> Circuit breaker. Circuit breaker.
>> I get what it is. I don't get how it's like the 40%. I >> revolving that can pay for this. There's >> there's only one, right? It's the education tuition fund which has been historically big. There's a lot of pieces to this >> but there aren't a lot of revolving
funds. >> No, I think it's just that one other and then there's grants as well. So circle does is they set they set a threshold. So it's summer time. Yeah. Say it's like $56,000, right? So the first $56,000 of
our kids tuition we pay full. Then we get reimbured. So I can pay the whole thing but we get reimbursed for any monies over whatever threshold that they set is at rate of 75%. So, so it's >> just $100 $100. We're on for the first
56 and then we're on for 25% of the remaining 25% means they're funding% over the 56 over the 56 but um so that's what it is. So it's still a small piece of the full tuition.
>> It's only for three years. >> Don't they cut it off? >> I thought so. Little Johnny year one we year two year three. I thought circuit breaker says you're supposed to observe it after certain period of time. Okay.
>> Something that's not something is >> Yeah. And then you expected the school said it anymore. There are some a grants for after school programming after school which we don't have >> in those three years. >> Let's try this way a previous finance
meeting will be >> so we don't it's based on the state's budget. So what happens is the Department of Education tells us they what they predict circuit breaker claim is going to come in at and they say okay we're going to eat up $200 million whatever it is 200 a lot more than that
probably close to a billion dollars I'm not even sure I don't there's a spreadsheet I can actually look and see how much fun they go to the state say this is how much money we need 27 that should be happening now they're probably already telling them because the numbers
by going to so probably given the state numbers we file claim on July 1 July 10th now I believe it is and that actually determines whether they can fund everything 75% if if the claims from all the districts in the state on July 10
come in higher than their projections we're not going to get 75% we're going to get another fun fact we're also for a circuit breaker just a good thing because I think we did a
nice job making sure we claim I don't think it properly jumped out. Um and then the second part to breakers is also something that's called extraordinary relief. So if after you start the the the year you realize
that there's more tuition that's coming in and you anticipated you know 100% or what 125 what you budgeted you can apply for extra relief and then you get that money this year the reimbursement. So that money you
have to pay it off first and get it back you get whatever the money is you get away is only one year though right >> for that current year so every year so like last year we applied for we got I don't know how much we off the top of my head how much we got but we take away
our extraordinary relief application for this year includes little Johnny right because he was then next year we don't put in for little Johnny like that's that's where you're expecting that's what We we may not hit that threshold next year. you know our our expenses may go
up but if they don't meet the one% totality >> but if you budget incorrectly can you still so it's only for new unexpected >> and it goes through the um the whole system to get to break your claims through and the money back and
then next week if you get to a point you're way more than you anticipated because he's moved in or bunch you can put that tition next year and that's how you can get some money because you get
this year that can be paid for next year because relief is part of the um circuit breaker breaker they have they have like an extra pool of money that they set aside for extraordinary reason because
>> so it's this is all potentially questionable too because if the state doesn't get sufficient funds to >> the state chooses every year whether to fund it and how much to
>> what I don't know where they get I mean% around 70% the superintendent really pushed last year to get this continues to be this budget buster. I mean, we've done a lot of work >> to try to manage it, but it's just this
it is, >> as I say, it's certainly >> Yeah, it's not an unfunded mandate. It's a It's a I call it like underfunded mandate, right? Because you it is you just have you have no idea. There's certainly other very important things in
the budget that I would say in my view of this from a numbers perspective that would fall under salaries and wages this out of district tuition thing are off there as the one we focus on these categories and my whole thing with the town schools
whoever I'm talking to is like let's just own the number and budget better than ever in anticipation of a potential ask of the town, you have to be so prepared to defend your budget that you're asking for as a result.
>> So that's FY26, right? >> Um FY27, we have school uh department >> capital planning and budget planning. >> So do we want to start with capital planning? >> Yes, we can. So Todd has a list of
projects that we would like to present to the town for our capital planning, but we need to get it through school committee first. However, we are still gathering some numbers uh as to what the cost would be. So >> can I hang on one second? Can I just zip back to FY26 for a second? One thing I
just wanted to throw out there because I'm also on the facility subcommittee. We haven't talked about this recently, but um we have planned to do an early education >> feasibility study, >> correct? >> This year, which we have budgeted for
>> I believe on that. So, >> okay. Well, I'm going from where I sit it was requested and I understood it to be budgeted. The purpose of this feasibility study is to determine um ultimately whether we it's feasible for
us to look at a a more robust early education basically prek preschool program. So we have a pre-k program right now. Um it is primarily around students that are on IEPs and then we do have peers there. But this would be to
see the feasibility of a of a broader broader program. Point being educationally, the younger we get these students um you know the better it is you know for us in terms of we hope for their their achievement. Um and included
in that is to consider the Eve school site like is that a possible >> you know location for that um just as general because we do eventually need to figure out what we're doing with school even though it is currently being used by the archive
>> parks and the in the archives. So I just want to throw that out there because there is a revenue component to that. Part of that feasibility study is >> building facility but also a big part of it is educational and finance because you would be charging revenue for this.
>> Right. So you'd be you'd be tuitioning in these students to do this. So >> feasibility study links into facilities sub. >> Correct. Correct. >> Correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. because it probably I mean it wouldn't be budget >> potentially using a school.
>> Correct. >> Yeah. And the um we would be using a >> I don't know what you'd call it an architect or an OP or whatever that is generally focused on educational facilities and then but we would be working with the administration
>> on the program programmatic side of that. Um and the revenue site >> in something more like the curriculum >> we don't have a curriculum subcommittee. because to see if if our current facilities will
>> because if they don't facilities and I think you know primarily looking at school to see if it you know what will be feasible to >> I mean even the buildings originally started facility subcommittee and they ended up having their own building subcommittee but um because if for some
reason is not feasible it's hard to you know cost of building a new I think whatever that's probably the place to start. So >> I just throw that out there as a >> um an FY26 sort of mini project. >> Would the current both buildings both
elementary buildings have preschool? >> They do. That would be for and would that stay because of the special education services they're receiving. That's the primary driver on those programs. >> So So let me just back down a little bit. Preschool programming is generally inter
school sector integral setup. So it's always general general you know typical students in up to a certain amount of special ed students. That's how integrated school works. The difference between that and private P school private P school doesn't have to have kids with a special ed in it. So what
normally happens is so there's a formulating thing where you have 14 you know 15 kids in a integrated classroom eight of them are typical and up to seven have special education that's how that's >> and we are required to teach you know provide services and we don't do it we
have to tition them out pay tuition and depending on the need of specialized students they may have slid so that students are there now uh figure out >> it's 70.
>> Yeah. So in some you know it's the same a lot of districts sometimes waiting list for sometimes there isn't like a lot of times more typical students and there are specialized students. So all that and then when there's private preschools around like we have a line >> right so part part of the process in
general creating an early childhood you know center would be to our current preschool and see if we can expand um you know be competition with it would be in competition some private schools but um
>> who wait list many of themizable >> yes it couldn't just Um >> Oh yeah. No, it's very take you over someday. >> The other thing to >> the building is at the end of its life expect. So I don't think we need to worry too much about the existing
building because it probably wouldn't >> survive in this. This is what it cost you renovate your existing building. This is what it cost you to renovate and do an addition on it. And this is what it cost to rip it down. >> So it gives you two or three off
>> and hopefully and a revenue stream. So the feasibility study are they are they going to study the market and say we believe that there is a market in this area of parents who would want to send their kids here that it's a big enough
and like whether or not and is that included in the feasibility facilities >> we have initial conversations around like what what was actually costing just look at the facilities and stuff like that. So you have to start there before because if it's cost then sometimes this
conversation kind of has Is that >> okay? This is a this is a facility >> programmatic. >> Yeah. >> In other words, like what would it programmatically look like? How many potential students if you were able to attract the kids to a new facility that there'd be climbing?
>> Let me throw two other things out. I will throw at you. >> How many might you charge? I'll just say I think it's all about >> um I will two other things I'm going to throw out at you and Sean's going to um one is we also have a 18 to 22 year
old program which is part of our special ed program. >> We have traditionally always had for many many years housed that in district used to be at the YMCA then it got moved to the um high school. So the kids those kids are actually high school and it's more of a like a life skills program
generally. Um it's for it's for students who are um you know have you know disabilities developmental disabilities. It tends to be life skill I guess vocational sort of you know type you know plus we like said
earlier we're obligated to educate most kids that have the needs that indicate >> but they can't graduate but they don't graduate. >> They don't graduate. may get a certificate completion or you know whatever but a lot of times at that kind of run the run the table on academic stuff and really you need to start
focusing on um on life still. So a lot of times that starts happening middle school age and through high school and then of 22 >> and when they're 18 you know they're in school with younger kids you know. So my point about this, let me just say my point about this is that we traditionally had in the high school um
that was moved out and outsourced by a previous administration. Although the administration communicated to me as a school committee member the short time I was there that it was in house. It was not in house. We are outsourcing this. We're paying out for these students to go out somewhere else.
>> That's another possibility. Now that's not revenue producing. That's on us. But I but I als but I also feel that we have an obligation um to these students too. I personally feel that to keep them in district and that could also be part of
this facility. So two things to piggy back on that it's not meant to be revenue >> but it could be and what I mean is when you have program that's solid enough where other school districts saying I can't
we have had in the past here we are it's >> again we'll have a special conversation but I I sort before we get to having2 because it cost stuff like that if you can.
>> Yeah. But if you can send them to us for say 30,000 for 80,000 >> can't transport them. >> And the last thing is >> not just what we were doing in fact we
had them at the school. That's where they were. >> Yeah. >> The last thing I will throw at you on this and then we'll move on is early educ early early education. So EA um early what is it? intervention is so if a child is disabled from birth to three
years old federal government it's a federal program right there's one in Lynn and there's one in there was one in Salem I think it closed I think there it's all in Lyn now that is a medicaid funded program it's a fally funded program >> is that possible that we become a
provider as an EI provider >> more sens is feasible we can do It doesn't make a lot of sense for prek and 182 although you could build it properly speech um some
>> but it's a revenue stream but yeah it's paid for by state the good thing is if you have it >> um either in your town or your district it's nice to be able to coordinate when they come through school that >> continuity continuity
the earlier we get them, >> you know, the better, you know, we can have >> keep them in district, >> keep them in district and can we really try to make a difference and, you know, if we get them at early by the time they get to kindergarten, maybe they're >> don't need services anymore, you know, like I'm not saying that the other
providers don't, but it just >> so long story, but that's for this year. I it's just it's at the end of this year I'm hoping we have the basic feasibility study that will tell us does this make sense to go to a more probably robust
>> fullon study. I don't know I don't know it's it's going to be a multi-year process but >> and throwing it out. >> Yeah. >> Okay. That was y sorry list of things that we need. I'm going to turn over them quickly. They're not in writing anywhere other than my
notepad here. There's no prices within it or cost associated with that. But this is kind of the list of things that we need to narrow down and really the town to allocate capital. That's probably the big question. >> I don't I don't want to narrow our list
down based on what the town can afford. I think it's important for us to tell people what we need even if the town can't afford it. That way it's on the on the radar that highest priority. So, uh, the high school security alarm needs to be upgraded at some point. Uh,
we need capital on carpeting and lighting in the back. We've done painting and upholstery. um car between the aisles. It's not whole thing, but the lighting here is um
I'll say I can't turn on um the gym or probably needs a full refresh meaning all the way down. Put new lines down recoverable. Every year we do a coat of new I call polyurethane. I don't know what it is.
Varnish something. Uh we don't go down all the way, take the lines out, redo them. So um whatever beautiful thin floor, >> you don't need to replace the floor. >> No, that's a whole thing. It definitely needs a little bit more
>> more than just >> um at the high school. We really need to feel how refresh refurbish. Um it is um the the the hills are are poor. The entire interior needs to be painted. Um
there's just a lot of work needs to be at the field and that's going to we're going to need to have to have some conversations around that. Um at the high school there's a cooking classroom for new home economics. Um that needs a full refresh. It's got like four or five
ranges in there and dishwashers and whatnot. Uh they need to be counter redone at some point. >> Um at the Glover we put some new equipment at the Glover playground and we put some new surface down. Um there are still
some concerns with the Glover playground concerns. Uh when the GL was built and renovated, they thought it'd be great to have these boulders out there. Um sharp sharp edged boulders. Um it's it's just
it's a it's a concern. >> And it's not a very flat piece of land. >> So we need to look at we got the new rubber surface down phenomenal. We got a new structure over there. We got some new swings. >> We got a generous donation from the
50,000. >> But we do need to look at the full plan for that for that playground and outside learning space. >> There's no there's no field over. >> No, that's right. >> That's right.
Um at Village, we need to look at the fencing around the soccer football multi-purpose field. >> Uh and while we're at village and at the field, the snack shack um or the shack and snack and shed sled for the shed. Um certainly needs a refurbish.
>> This is that village. >> I mean, we don't use those for our students. That's just >> But I mean, it's it's primarily for town, you know, private leaves and park and rack, but defense. Maybe it's a collaboration with the
town, but it's um >> and donations. I mean, we can go I mean those those um athletic um teams and clubs, you sports and marble are very generous. So, >> we don't think the problem is they rent the field and I don't think the running
comes to us. I think it goes to park and wreck. >> Oh, well I don't as far as I know we don't rent the field. Not that >> right. So, you know, so we need to partner with them on these are capital.
>> Maybe we should at least have a meeting with them >> kind of figure out together at that village what do we need and then we >> negotiate that with the >> I'm not going to village.
>> Absolutely not. Uh so inside a village school um staying off the fields um one of the things we want to investigate is sound panels in the gymnasium. It's it's very echoey very open very sometimes need to be installed
at the village. Um >> it's like impacting school classrooms. >> Yeah have a like an assembly in there just bounces off the wall. It's not and they don't have auditory in there. They have >> No, they do. No, they have a um No, they have
>> no seat. >> But but but you can't I don't think you can fit all the kids in there. >> No, moves >> like one. >> Um so moving on to Brown School. The only thing that's really on our radar over there is >> their playground gets an enormous amount
of sun and there's not any shoot area over there. uh whether we put up some type of a sale or or or canvas structure or a more permanent structure, but that's something we need to look at at Brown School. There's just no no um no
up there on top of the hill. has gone up to but it's it's >> benefited from our >> they keep our our um back to bets quick and if anybody's walked through bets the floors there are cracking the lenolium
and it's not simply the lenolium it's the subfloor the subfloor is not installed to what we would consider a good um level of expertise a lot like like plywood underneath that's floating or not secured down or what? You can
walk you can hear you can hear the echo under your feet. No, you walk down the hallway, you don't hear anything. You walk through the vets and you hear echoing under your feet in certain areas in the building. Uh there there expansion cracks in the cafeteria and the floor. So I I think that's one of the places that we need to have an
engineer come in at some point and kind of identify what the issues are. on average 500, you know, $50,000 to replace some someone tile. It's it's could be a bigger issue there. Correct. Uh and then I do have on my list of
school. We've kind of touched base on that. Um that is the capital from a facility standpoint. I have two other categories really quick. Um Stephen with technology. Our wireless access points are when we when we purchased these, we
leased them on five year lease or fiveyear purchase. Uh I don't know how these were purchased. I believe they were funded fully for 5 years with service. So we can control these access points for 5 years. uh
after the five years we have to do something whether it's let them go under control which means they will always work but we can't go in and control um settings we don't have access but they'll they're out there connect the network they will work as
long as we don't have a major problem not the best way to run a school district certainly not so much of our our learning and teaching learning administration is tied into the network um so we need to look at that that's up in April We feel like we can buy two more months to get us through June, which is good,
but we do need something um to to do with that. And part of plan for that was to uh we talked about last year build start building a three-year plan for technology where we fund year one. We had that same line into year
two, add that same line to year three and do three three-year leases, one every year. Um, unfortunately I'm concerned about next year is being able to fund the first installment of that plan, but we'll get to that when we get to Alex's office.
>> You want to bring up how we did that like curriculum and stuff? >> Yeah. So um >> just so she knows >> one of the things. So in my my former district we always went to town for capital for technology and it was
laptops and Chromebooks and wireless access points and smart TVs, smart displays. Um and every year we need $100,000 $150,000. So finally brainstorm together just very similar. And we say, "Look, if we give you the $100,000 this
year, that $100,000 will actually fund about $270,000 worth of equipment on a three-year lease. And then next year, we're going to take that one into 100 into 200,000. You're going to sign another lease for $275,000. And then the third year,
you're going to sign a third lease. When that first lease comes off in year four, you've got the funds to just keep going." So it's a threeyear investment by the time our budget but then we have to go to town for technology request. >> Got it. Yeah. >> So that started the curriculum we did.
Yeah. >> Um because I think curriculum was a one year investment but we're going to refresh every year. So this year was this year was >> science >> science math I think. >> Yeah. So next year we got some amount of money into the budget. My god my brain's
a little fried right now. We put some amount of money into the budget for curriculum so that we don't have to every year used to happen. we get to June and we say okay we have surplus of $466,000 buying sh that's not a way to train that
is seed your pants you know we have surplus we can afford so which is great >> um so we have wireless access points we have devices I don't know what we need Stephen's gonna refresh next year for students staff and
classroom devices and then third category is um network outside of access point service switches and whatnot. So Stephen's going to get some update on we need from that and then we'll get that back to everybody also. Then we have rolling stock is the last category
rolling stock vehicles. Um we have a an electric out there year one. So we need to make sure that years two and three are in the capital plan. I believe there's one more payment on the bus also in the capital plan. We'll have to check that if it was a three or a five year.
And we do have two buses that are in the area of 50 needed to be replaced. We have a 14 passenger bus from 2013. So a 12y old 14 passenger special education bus. And we have a 10year-old uh 20 15 28 passenger bus. Uh so to give you an
idea full bus is between 68 and 73 students 28 and a half bus and a 14 bus. um with the streets tomorrow big buses don't always allow us to do everything we need. So we do need smaller vehicles
to get through some of these streets. So that is my capital update for now. We will get prices and we will ask school committees to kind of rank them with our recommendation. We we'll make the recommendation on ranking and ask you to approve that so we can bring it to the
town. Um Alicia usually has a meeting with us in November. Let's say um you know what what's your one ask? >> Um we get the pick up truck and then the blue truck that um that's
not >> okay. Um, so the the white pickup truck that's not on yet. I'm not sure which one. >> Um, so the truck for the the blue truck
does need to be um I think we actually got that from DPW is my next question. Like a lot of times we we take a left or otherwise replacing one at least one in the rotation at all
times not at all within the last 35 years or something because this isn't that we because you buy anyway
no 2019 >> if we uh if we take a step back. So those are the the needs, right? There's prioritize them. Um and and Melissa, it's always good for us all to agree
upon my understanding of this, but for your think about the ways those can be funded, right? And way number one is just your existing budget that rolls every year. You could use that. You probably don't have much
ability to, right? I feel like next year's going to be really tough. Then there's going to give the town free cash certification. We talked about let's say that for example sake is $8 million which is just a number. Maybe the town says, "All right, we're going to use 2
million of that capital." That will be in its own warrant articles. And you might have like public buildings warrant and maybe like some school stuff will be in there, some stuff will be in there funded from three dash, right? Then
there's also the ability for the town to ask for exclusion overhead and schools have been included in those town sponsored select board sponsored articles and then there's been placeholders as you always have for school only debt solution over
presumably as well. So I guess when you're building that list my question would be there's probably items on there that you never issue debt for because they're smaller, right? So is there a way to bucketize not to say like that's the route you're
going but these are the options for this options for this bucket just so we understand like what potentially could be the number I think in the past they did some stuff because I've seen we're spending some
>> ideally we don't have to issue any debt I always say that but we would probably have to >> there are some warrant articles that were funed through debt exclusion that had three or four items in it. There were one big item, two small items like the large project had $250,000
and then there were two other items in that I think massive exclusion from a couple years ago with the roads. There were like three or four school. >> I didn't know that either. >> I believe so. >> You mean you mean >> the roads and works?
the roof, >> but it wasn't in one article. It was a list of >> Oh, I thought that the school roof was like a whole override question from the last five years like is it a school
override? Is it a town override? Is it together? there's this concept like there's an article that asks for capital debt exclusion needs and then the schools could be lumped into that from my perspective and then you also have a last effort if the town was not to
include that which I don't know that that exists ever so far that you could ask for your own right so you always have hope to get something through it I'm thinking out of free of
>> of time revenues for next year. >> I'm concerned that there's not a couple of conversations with Chinese. She's wonderful. >> I have 15 more minutes. >> Okay. Well, then we need to move on to
the budget planning for FY27 because this is preparing the lead. This is the most important thing I think we want to talk about. at a high level. >> Um, so for 27 budget planning, >> so here's my budget calendar. Um, Melissa, I believe you also drafted
something. >> Um, certainly we can incorporate >> you drafted. Did you share it with Mike? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Um, you know, this is kind of just a this is
from me. I put this in my budget book, my budget presentation, but this is for me to make sure I'm staying on track for throughout the budget process. Things things that need to happen at times. Um, you know, as you'll see right now, we're in capital. That's why before this, um, before 27 budget, but capital we're in
capital right now. So, um, I don't know that we have a meeting on November 6th. Is that the next committee meeting? We were first and Thursdays and now we're now second. >> No, you should not be any different. Yeah, >> first and third, November 6th and November 20th.
>> This month was second and fourth. >> I'm not in charge. >> I didn't mean to open that can of worms. Um so, um you know, one of the things I I really struggle with is going to principles and saying, "Hey, what do you need? What
what what can we make some changes in your budget? What where would you like to see improvements?" We're always asking, "How can we improve, not where can we cut?" That's not usually the first question. Um but just in having conversations I am a little leer to go to our principles and say hey what do you need and then go back to them and
say sorry I'm not getting anything. >> Can we talk about that? >> That's one of the main things we want to talk about. >> What I would say is I pulled the number up. >> I see 49120287 was your budget last year. >> I have no conclusions. You can tune in
Wednesday of next week for the first step to the bigger picture which is the revenue forecast. But based on where we're at in developing that revenue forecast, which a big question mark is how much free cash gets used in that, right? We talked about that for a number of years. I
would assume nothing more than 491202 itself. >> Okay. So a level funded budget. Yeah. Not a level service level fund. So for right now, that's my predict. So a level funded service budget level funds budget. I am not going off principles
and saying what what do you need to enhance your program? What I might be able to say is what do you have that you can repurpose within your budget? Meaning if you have a XYZ position and you wanted ABC position, >> can you make this one? Can you can you don't add don't add the ABC without the
best way I can describe this budget is this this would be the available revenue budget. >> Okay. We're looking at we're looking we have to we have to operate under the same money we do now for for um next year even though we have people that
have to balance right no I'm just saying that's what you're telling us that's something >> but that's not like a directive from town that's just preliminary but that's important if we know we're getting a million dollar that's
getting nothing that's a whole another thing so that allows Mike and I to go back to the and say this is how we need to reook at the budget. This is how we're going to need to cut this is you know that amount of dollars is going to mean x amount of staffing or andor
combinations of which that's what we're going to need to do. >> So can I can I jump in here because this is where we and I haven't had this conversation because we're >> this is an opportunity I've been asking this for seven years my seventh year on the school committee and last year for a
zerobased budget. So what I'm asking for to work with this is me you may not agree is that this idea that we just roll over from the previous year >> right okay so it's not a roll what I would like what I would like to see is per building
>> literally based on what your enrollment is projected to be for next year so the incoming class the outgoing you know what your enrollment is regular ed special ed what your what your case loads are on special ed what your regular ed classroom needs are either sections or classrooms.
>> Um, build that and that says this is what we need, >> right? Then you say, okay, well, based on a level funded budget, >> you know, what do I have? >> That could be two different things. >> And then I know there are other non
staff related expenses, line items in the buildings. No question. There's I don't think we do utilities per building, right? But we do we do materials, right? We do >> they have three lines. They have a they have a supply line, a contract services line, and a professional development line. >> That's what I would like to see.
>> Yeah. And and I'd like to piggy back off that. >> Okay. If I can just jump in the union, I kind of have to a couple things. So, um I I hear that and I hear I think I know where the conversation is going. What I would say is that um when we develop
budget, Mike, I sit down, we go through everything. um whether it be caught in a zero base budget starting from zero and working up. Um that's not typically how the school budget is built. However, um I think you can get um confused on
like what level services budget actually means, right? So for instance, let's just let's just play with um we know what we have currently. We know our contract obligations. So we know the delta of what we need to to do a level versus budget right now. We have we we
have a good idea of that, right? So knowing that we say, okay, I'm just making said we need $2 million to make that happen. I just said anything. So then we say, okay, how do we take that $2 million that we thought we might have
and how do we roll that back? And to Jen's point, you got to get that you got to get to the same weights because you have to say, "How many classes do I have in this section of high school? What was in those classes?" Because how many
fourth grade classes do I have in this building? How many kids in each class? And if it's 17 kids in each class, well, now it's six classes, five classes, another 21 teacher. That has to happen when we're not doing. So when I say level services
budget, I say this is and that's not finance. That's what we need in order to maintain what we have. But that also doesn't mean that we're just rolling over what we have. What it means is we have to look at the services that we're providing that um sort of getting what
they need and especially long drives most of that right. So there's mandated things we have to provide and how do we do that in the most efficient way? I I'm telling everybody right now, we're not where I want to be in special ed this year. Hopefully next year we'll be in
better so we can start bringing the kids back in district. We can create programs that are meaningful. When we get to that point, there's going to be a lot more efficiency that will absolutely come. We're not there yet. I knew we weren't going to be there this year, but last year. >> Can I just make a point? You know, you and I could also talk about this
offline, but I think from from what I'm looking for, I'm only one member on this committee. Only one member on this committee, one member on the whole school committee. We have an obligation with 800 less students today than we had eight years ago to be looking at accounting for our staffing. I'm sorry.
I just like that's that's how I feel. So it's not an adjustment budget thing. It's a staffing model is what my an enrollment versus I think when we say based budget that has a whole different connotation and that's that's a model in in the corporate world. That's not a model in
the school world. But at the end of the day, we have to look at all that staffing. Absolutely have to. And we've been looking at that. So >> you guys as a professional, I don't even know which categories to break it down. But is there a way by school to say like
you got your list of people that were whether it's fulltime, parttime, whatever? You got a full list. I think I was at orientation the whole thing up there, right? So it I think from my perspective I actually don't know the numbers I have researched in depth but it would
probably be pretty easy for me to be like what's the average kindergarten class in the state of Massachusetts the number of kids that's probably like an easy analysis for you right you probably like how justify >> case loads
Exactly. But like there's so many categories I would assume like I'm talking all the way from the head teacher to like do we have the right number of janitors at school? Do we have the right special education? There's other types of positions and administration. Is there a way to just
do that by school to make it to break it down? So like small victories maybe certain people could be assigned to doing the same format in school because it's a point and I'm looking at that thing and it's 778 from 15 to 25. That's
just a reported data point and I don't even know if that's >> what's that but that might be right if there's more to that. So, so of course you have to do this balance budget if you're gonna get enough,
right? But but can we prepare a more comprehensive? I'm not talking about like a PowerPoint with a bunch of narratives in it. I'm just talking about >> well I think we can give this directive to be honest with you. I mean that's what >> but the reason I'm saying it not just to
balance this year's budget. What if you have to ask for an override? There's going to be people lining up for data point. So I think one of the things why don't you have the presentation present them before they >> what we actually mean what's normal versus other district
has maybe marble head's more favorable than average and I'm fine with that as a not so I look at it this way you know budget that's created school budget is that we we develop grant school committee we
have the conversations we have conversations here and then between all say okay where else can we look at right that's why so I think how we develop the budget is how we develop the budget how we explain how we develop the budget and
what datations we need to have I think you know I don't want I don't want to lose sight of the fact that like in the economy in recommending our budget, you know, school has to approve budget and over how we make sure we're responsible, but
we need to take the first step and I have to conver not. I've been asking about like can you show me some metrics to ratios part of this process for like five years and we talked about it a lot and everybody explains to me of course
>> I think we started those conversations last year but I think I think our seven years >> our leadership team got out of those conversations last year and and it's it's not as simple as I have 18 kids in this class. You look at the middle
school model >> and you work in teams. I understand it's not that simple. But you can present it >> the way that you >> but but if we present that the middle school has 18 kids per class because you're on teams. If I cut one teacher, I have to cut two.
>> So you're going from 18 to possibly 28. That's that's the the things that we need to massage. >> Yeah. >> No, you can't just present it without explaining. That's what we get the numbers. Yeah, we do. Yeah, we do.
>> Was part of my budget last year. I think there's something in my budget that it wasn't. It wasn't >> so I can only talk about specialist. >> What I want I know what I want to see.
I'm only one person. I want to see it by building >> by grade by case by position. >> And why that you're going to get that? That's a that's a snap. Yes. Yeah. Well, based on what your next year's based on what your what your
grades are going to be, John, I this this is like we're getting down to it here because this is the only way this is anything is going to get sold to the town given what we have coming down the road with our salary lines. I'm telling you, there's no other way. >> I'm telling you that we're saying the
same thing and we're saying differently. Absolutely. We need to look back. If I give you and I did give this to you, you keep saying I didn't. I gave you the every single classroom in the district and the number in the classroom. That's just stuff, >> but it wasn't accountable to staffing.
>> It was I must admit it was every single teacher in the class in the in the in the district by school, by classroom, by number. And what I can tell you is that's a snapshot of time because you may be a teacher that has 17 kids in your classroom. You may have 21 kids in
your classroom and I'm a parent. I say well you know you have that class but you know based upon a spreadsheet that I have 17 that are stupid and we have twice and that's why that's what we need that's what we
want. But what I'm saying is that's that's that level of specificity is not for public consumption because it's it's not public consumption because you all that's going to do is is cause um issues with parents saying well I
don't want to get in that class that that's that's why it's not at that level. There is a I think a conception in this town that the school is fully funed and so what I think we're all trying to get at is how can we understand this
cost structure and convince people that their tax dollars are going to the number of kids per leader whatever you call it a lead teacher like that seems like a pretty easy analysis not to say what's
>> I'm more concerned about everything other than lead teacher because there's no data that I can Google right now and figure out why there's no conversation and I know a little but because I think it's different like so
when we look at I'm call IA or whatever now but I the minute I walked into the district I was like holy map we have a ton of right we have a ton of why it's part of there's a lot of factors why
that is. Um, and and I've own, you know, I I own the numbers, right? And I can we can look at and we starting to look at like how many do we need? And so I think to Jen's point, like there's a there's a conception says, well, once I have a staff, I don't want to give them like
principles in general, how do I operate that way? I operate what do we need? what do we you know how what what do we need to look at and what do we need to do to make sure we have the relation the problem was and again I don't always blame there wasn't good there wasn't
good um like um determine where everybody was like even going into this year my principles that weren't even principles couldn't even tell you the what the staff were like and and so that's why it's difficult so at the end of the day we're in a much
better place last year was understanding that um I think as we build the budget that we'll be able to look at and say okay if we have no money coming in that equals x amount of months look back I mean where's that staff going to come from and how and where are we going to
make those cuts and if you were going to do the the best unlimited time the best analysis you could ever do >> what would be the categories of employers at the school teacher >> teacher
Gen can be broken down probably multiple ways. So it's gen and special different >> and then you can break it down that way gen teachers gen and then we have lunch monitors which is that's a whole
conversation and then you know there's couple and then there's um operational support staff the different part of that res and then you have special same thing you have teacher special IAS but then you have instructions you have BCD you
that will teach. So what we're asking for Brown school like let's just focus on one school at a time. >> Can you put together something that compares enrollment of the students versus the number of each category and maybe that enrollment of students in one
category is enrollment of special needs special education students, right? like maybe one school has more than the other and that justifies Brown having more special ed. Can you justify school that what you're putting into your budget for that school salaries and
wages based on the positions you're asking to be funded is to give the appropriate number of staff all the way from the lead teacher to the >> By the way, John, you don't have to do it by student. You can do it by um
contract u what's the word? IEP um services. So, you know, Brown School has, you know, 700 hours a month in OT services and has seven OT studentity worried about what you mentioned before.
You say Brown School on average has this number of kids per kindergarten classroom, >> right? Oh, that could that we do and we wasn't what I was asked for. So that that's a different conversation. So yes, average of stuff is is perfect. It sounds like we're
asking because we're questioning it. I'm more worried about not having the data for for people up at town meeting >> and I and I know I contrary I'm really not mean to be contrary. I just want I just want folks to understand that we do
we do we do staff and based on kids needs. So anybody's question no >> but we do have to answer to the talent. No, we have you have to be better at explaining what can you know like
experience and I do think because a lot of it's analyzing this and then getting there's also numerical factors to this which you can explain but we you have to start with the numbers because they can download the numbers online which has no
explanation. Do you get and quite frankly never take foreign program and that may have need more staff because
we're asking you to find these wages for for special education and I can stand behind those because because of the number of students that require and the number of whether partime So what we have contracted an IEP or I don't know
what the word is but what we have you know those IEPs are committed obligations and you add that up >> I would think so but I've been told it's never been done and you know and I think >> that's why I don't understand how principles know what they need if they
don't know it's >> hard when you get to like high school is that there >> it gets a different model. So like if you look at elementary if if I'm a teacher that's teaching all the subject or if we're doing team teaching it's it's easy to break things down. I mean the high school is like I teach English. 9 10 11 12 and
>> and then you have like classes that it's like are we going to call one because there's only four kids like do those four kids get that AP then >> honestly in in every year that I've been doing this at high school I only have four kids signed up I could
cut that but you know in reality teach somebody else or say I have six sections of English and each 15 16 in the classroom five sections The last thing I would say is this is not to say that we weren't going to do analysis because I can't do the system.
But to the extent you want support from us in accumulating data >> just because of a capacity issue because you're doing everything else you might with this process. We are happy to help if you'd like. We can Alex and Melissa
can go sit at the Brown School for eight hours and figure out just figure out So I think that I mean this is early on in the process, right? I mean, you know, Mike and I have had, you know, generalized conversations about, you know, where
where we know the numbers to be based upon the contractual obligations and the staffing we currently have. So after this meeting and then that's that's we have to have that conversation >> and we have a big >> you know our contracts are
can we break the staffing down by school and then say what's in our budget for that school I feel very comfortable and this is why and and I think I think that level if that's what folks are looking for folks think that that's what we need
yes I need to do that I I I am and wander the category and say our average number of kids per kindergarten in Brown is this is this >> you guys are cherrypicking the easiest stuff in the world we can all day in 15
minutes >> figure out what our general ed number should be when you get into special education you need to review every child's require onetoone power professional that >> how does not do that that's I've never understood how you staff if
and also changes. So it changes like way quicker than >> but you have a range right? got, you know, >> x number of, you know, OT's assigned to this building based on a range of 100 hours to 125 hours in a need.
And if we don't need it, we like this year we language therapist. We didn't we had speech language therapists that were parttime. fulltime and then we have then we have an openition
position that you know then back again because change >> but if we end up with a level funded budget no matter what we budget I'm pretty confident it's based on our current staffing level model we have one right now
>> we are not going to have there's not going to be enough in in the general fund to appropriate for us to meet that existing staff level with our contractual obligations that are last year. >> My concern too is that I think even next year is going to be even worse. And so
>> FY28 an opportunity to like we really need to think about our cost structure in a new way >> because a new way. It's just more detailed even if he's already doing it. It's just breaking it down to present it. So just
for rough numbers, if we need to go 1 something million increase just to do level service and and if we need to cut 1.7 million from our budget >> and that equates to 30 staff members,
professional staff members, these are not the inexpensive ones. These are the big ones to 70,000. We are theoretically looking at needing to cut potentially 30 positions which is 10%
positions out of last year's budget. What we're asking for is build a budget with based on this analysis. >> Exactly. >> Yep. >> So maybe use that as a way to go to this. >> This is the reality guys. This is why we need this extra if we're going to that conversation. We're going to this this
is what it fell to 49 million budget. We're going to have 28 kids in every class in this grade. But we're also assuming that >> and this the history has nothing to do with with your plan. But we're assuming that the 25 or sorry the 26 budget
salary line that we appropriated last year comes in line with that because we've had three two4 million overages in the last three years prior to what we're
>> what I'm saying is like tuition so it was But what I'm saying is like the salaries and wages were clearly not built with last year
open positions never filled you know that the general stuff that's so easy to determine 15 minutes right >> it's a large spend most of our time
>> but it's not just time it's that we can sit every single school, every single thing. Here's what we need. >> Three kids move in, two kids. >> That's what we have reserves for. But that's how we are now. >> There's no difference in terms of but
we're just saying we like we have to answer to this. We have 800 less students today. Why are we staffed at this level? Explain it. And we have never been able to do that. >> I'm just saying how how we get there is
different. Yes. Yes. But let's also have projections, right? It's going to go back up in a couple years. So, we have to like that doesn't mean we staff it. So,
like we have people understand for what we need, but in a couple years we may need to add seven more back because we have >> then you make that argument now. I'm just saying it because it's now
look at okay >> aren't getting up that high but that's not what the projections are >> into it as that actually comes to fruition. >> Well, not if you don't have any budget. >> Yeah, you have to have your budget. >> I have to run I apologize but this is in >> um so we're going to go through our next
um our timeline for our meetings, right? Um so right so this was great. So this is just a timeline for um >> our budget schedule to change. >> Just write down the say that >> preliminary list additional dates and no
changes are likely. >> Um we do have I know it's getting late. It's already quarter three. So I don't know if you want to make any comments on the town but revenue budget planning or revenue projections tomorrow. I would just reiterate when Monday is the first revenue prediction
which will cover the projected revenue or the budget that we're building versus last year's revenue that was used to announce last year's budget >> as of Wednesday, right? >> There will be another presentation with
a more refined revenue number and a more refined major expense category. across all town departments schools that will be in December and that we're going to do a three year which the same exercise we did last year
just refreshing it and then hopefully doing more because we learned a lot. >> Are you expecting departments to come in with their projected expenses for three years? >> I will probably need to reach out to Mike like I did last year. It was like at the 11th hour because the contracts got signed like the night before our
meeting and you gave me like your best estimate of the threeear per year model of the contract's impact on your wages budget. I won't be like the rest of the perfect we might put a or um out of
district tuition line I think was in there. So I might have two data points for middle of December. I might got >> I don't want to say it budget completed for next year and the year after I have three years contracts,
right? I mean contract. >> Yeah, you can't really go to the third year unless you just assume throw into place because they'll be renegotiating the contract. >> No, I have 26 27 26 and 28 >> 27 and 28 already done for a level service. if everything might be two data
points because the schools are half the time budget that I need from you. So I'll let you know soon. Um what I would say is a forecast for three years. It's not going to be perfect but it goes back to everything you just discussed like he's going to have to base that off of
what he has right now. review of the purpose of this year is to hopefully for those that are listening and education board and everything this is where we're headed absent anything which it was read last year it's getting
worse and worse and worse so there's going to be funding challenges and we have major major expense categories and then we have another and I'll apply some factor to that based on history and we'll go from there. Um, that's what's going on. So, like the
town is planning um the free cash to be certified expectation is less than last year. I don't think that's a surprise to people. >> Do I trust that number right now? No. It changed in May last year. So, I don't trust anything. But we've been you've
been very involved in helping to >> so the point is available revenue if you use seven in the budget last year for free cash and we used let's say five this year >> that's minus 2 million available revenue that offsets our two and a half right
>> so now we're doing flat revenue available budget so that number is not final But it it's something that if I were in your shoes, I would I would be kind of thinking
might be impossible. I >> agree. I understand. Yeah, that's where that's where my mind. >> So that's I guess tune in Wednesday. There's another larger threeear forecast with expenses into December amongst all various.
>> So can we talk for a moment about our our this schedule here? So, I feel like um we might want to have another conversation about what we're looking for in regards to these, you know, sort
of um models per building. >> It looks like November 3rd is when you're on this calendar, um Mike, that you're distributing the FY27 budget packets to principles and directors. So, do we maybe want to try to get together before November 3rd because we want on
or whatever day that is that you're delivering this whatever to the principles we want it >> to based on this conversation. We should have a specific meeting only for >> what's the plan to do this
and what's the format because the last thing you want is like this team's looking at Brown in this format and this team's looking at Glover. We want like the same categories positions being analyzed and the same methodology and the same output.
>> The same spreadsheet >> and then probably we want the brown specific I call it small victory. It's probably not small. It's probably hard to do every school but we want brown done by this state and we want clever done by this state. >> They should all be done at the same date,
>> right? But like you can how are we going to get to the end? Do you know what I mean? We can't if one team's doing all four schools, it can't be done on the same date. If if if we're splitting it up, then >> because remember we're if this is done like that, that's one portion of what
the principles have to be done in total. But is there like a a timeline? >> Well, why don't we do that at this next? >> Because if you have the timeline and it's like Mike needs to analyze with whoever he's working with the Brown. So, you might have to go sit down with I don't know. Maybe
>> if you look at meet with principles, capital requests. There's other meetings in here. Principles, principles, directors. Um >> I'm looking at that November 3rd. >> I usually meet with principles three times a year just on the budget just you know to review their budget to review their positions, their staffing levels,
make sure everybody's in the right position. >> Yeah, it's different. We want to sit in a room and build this this regime >> which we could do a a blank one of in our next meeting meaning like >> we can agree upon what categories of
employees we're going to analyze right >> do we want to try to do it next week >> that's right after >> how about the week of the 27th >> is that yeah no that's not right we're in October yes >> you want to do it on the 27th
Do you you like >> um I think if we throw a few dates out an email I think >> well it's us >> it's us >> I can't do the 27 28's your Tuesdays are out for you right
Uh, no. >> Why didn't I Oh, you are you in Boston or so you zoom in or >> uh sometimes. >> Okay. How about the 28th? >> Yeah. >> What does that mean? >> 2:30 work. Okay. So, I'll do >> pushing it back. I'm good with that.
2:30 fin budget subcommittee. I'm going to create the 28th. >> I will create an agenda. I think it's a basically a one item agenda. It's a >> data we can and come up with some ideas ahead of it
and then we can discuss and jot it down. I have no >> if anybody has any ideas or you draft anything you can send them to me and then I can disseminate it. >> I can send them to you, right? >> You can send it to me. You can send it to me. We can't discuss it, right? Until we get to the
>> delicate put together. >> Yeah, I just Yeah, I can put something together, but I I do appreciate what Mike is saying and John is saying that like the analysis on tab one for head teachers totally different from tab two.
So that's where I'll look to like how how does how do we approach this? >> Yeah. you know, like students per lead the teacher classroom is probably straightforward. Like you said, >> special everything else pretty
summarizes the special ed situation in school and and this is why for that makes sense. >> Well, I'm asking for more than that. I'm asking for case loads. I have been asking for that for years. >> Case load for OTP. These are the people
assigned to I mean I know it's probably cumbersome but how many contracted hours do we have >> for these services including you know psychology SLP OTP >> pull it up you know what are those number of hours for that building it's not student specific
>> determines what the appropriate number is for that >> and what I mean is by David like and that's why I want here and that's where she should be Anybody could send me an account and say this is appropriate and I would have to believe
them. But is there any data to compare any like recommendations from the state of Massachusetts? >> Right. That's what we would ask Lisa Marie to provide for us. And the other question is does it differ? So does Brown school have you know 700 hours of
OT per um month with seven OT's assigned to them and you know village has >> 800 with four right that's what we want to see right like that is that you know and then are you believer in not
skipping things because they're not material like I think we should look at every category and if it's simple then that's great you can move to the next tab in five minutes, but you document what's in there and move to the next one. Do you know what I mean? >> But my point too is you like that sound a little more narrative to me. I
actually >> No, I want the numbers. >> Yes. I want it in Excel. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Me too. >> Mary's going to have to do >> because narrative if you don't have the numbers and if you don't break it down by school, it's like impossible to follow as somebody that doesn't do this.
Yeah. Right. >> Okay. Um All right. So 2:30 on the 28th, I'll attempt to get this room and I'll set the agenda into the posting. >> Okay. >> And I'll post it as a joint meeting.
>> Great. Um, any other meetings? Do we want to set out any kind of Do you just want to take it like each time and then figure out where we are from there? And then we can agree upon we will always um we will always have you as
like the third or fourth night of our budget fullcom review where we vote on your budget after you vote on your budget. Um but we'll always have the school as like the last because it's the biggest budget. So give it the most time and us the most time to understand
what's going on. >> That'll be March. Can I ask a quick question, Mike, before I'm looking under February 5th, for example, you've got 2026 recommended budget presented to school committee. What we have done in the past, and it doesn't have to do it this year, but maybe you remember from
last year, we've always done it as a budget workshop where it's kind of a conversation between the principles and the and the school committee and the superintendent. >> So, is that what you're that would be maybe that time >> or is it more like here it is? I'll be
honest with you, I attended that one. You and I attended that. I didn't think that was a great use of honestly like I I was not happy. >> I think author that's not the best use of our principal time that they sit in the room for two days straight or two
nights straight and get you know if you look at their budget they have three they really control. >> Well that's what all this work is. Yes. Okay. I think we have conversations with with Lisa Marie and her and her her you
know Victoria and her executive team >> Stephen >> Todd those are the people who have bigger chunks of budgets >> that maybe we're planning to do that as a budget subcommittee >> during this process or once or something. Um then okay so then all
right so then we're not going to call it a budget workshop. It's going to be presented to the i.e. the community and the school committ if if anybody's surprised by the time we get to February 5th and we make a present presentation to the school committee as to what is or isn't in our budget they have not been paying attention okay and and I mean
that from a school committee stand >> yeah they do not because there there going to be conversations occurring consistently >> well it should be it should be an agenda item from now until town meeting now until >> the budget hearings
>> you just um Just as a reminder for yourself, could you add April 6th as the town warrant hearing >> and we sort of need you there? I'm presuming like >> because when meeting I I will
>> When does FinC Monday >> I'm back? Yes. You did present last year. >> Well, no. I got I got there and you know I'm running like a 3 to four hour meeting and then it was like >> that's a Monday.
>> That's the Monday after Monday Monday after Easter. >> Well, I mean I think you should. >> Yeah. >> So, I just want to be sure that >> No, that's fair. >> If there's something for you to present, you have to be there. We're like we're so done and we don't even need you there. I'll let you know. That's not
>> But the prior to April 6, >> don't you guys vote our budget for the actual hearing? Okay. So, when is that? >> That's going to be end of March. >> That's the one he's saying we have you guys go last, >> but that's not April 6th. >> End of no.
>> It's gone all the way to the last Monday in March. >> So, because this is where we've also gotten into trouble, but where we end up, this isn't going to happen this year, but there have been times in the past where our budget before we >> Yeah. This says March 5th, we will definitely not vote that that's when school budget voters.
>> So if we have that's our goal before March 5th, we voted our budget >> then then we're happy to do it as soon as after. We just always like have a fourth night and typically the schools end up on that fourth >> and we go there too available for questions because your full committee
often have questions for us. >> I have I have it right now. as a March TBD 2026 school budget presentation to fin >> but then there's also the warrant hearing >> I have that now April 6th >> and then town meeting is >> and the warrant hearing is much more than once we get to the warrant hearing
we're barely going to talk about the state budget but if you have a capital article then that's the first time >> that's the first time we'll discuss >> capital with a full final town we don't there's a capital planning committee that's like separate in the final.
>> If you if you want to put an actual date, it's either the 23rd will be or the 30th of March. >> Yeah. One of those two dates. >> One of those two dates. >> Got it. >> So, they're always Mondays. >> Those meetings are always Monday at 7 p.m.
>> And we we're back to Mara. We used to do it in the building. So that's 3/23 or 3 >> and what's not on here which is understand but somewhere in there in January is the state of the town that's also >> that should be
>> you should probably dial in for that >> you've also spoken of that some that's I would guess that's either January 29th or February at a select board meeting
it's always then later in January, but I think it's that gone into February before usually on a Thursday night. >> I think it's on Wednesday. It's usually the select meeting for that. >> February
5th is a Thursday. >> I'm looking at Okay. 2/28 or the right 228 or 3/4 or 24.
>> January 128 or 24 >> 128 or 24. Got it. >> Okay. >> Um Okay. So, we're next meeting on the 28th and that's okay. That's just to talk about this stacking
>> the next meeting I'd imagine we would talk about our expectations for like the detail of the budget. We've already talked about a lot of that but yeah and then that's the planning phase like that before >> and then really we don't necessarily need to meet in January but I think our
lean is on window technically opens up after state of the town right >> at some point you're going to want to be looped in start getting this data >> department to have these >> but we could talk about this on the 28th
but I assume we're going to sort of build this idea and they're going to diss then the data is going to come back. I would think I'd love to have you in look at that data >> when they're going to start building a budget. >> Yeah, I'm happy to be a part of the whole analysis if you want. >> That would be helpful for me. So, but
we'll just take it meaning to Okay. Um Okay. Anything else? 301. >> Any other issues? >> No, this has been very with