let me zoom but then it's like short stays and >> okay >> I have um started the meeting and I am live streaming us on YouTube but then it's like short
Jack Atridge, can you hear us? If you can hear us, can you just text me? You can hear. Just want to make sure. Mic upgrade. So if I turn my >> I
All right, just muted again so I can hear. >> Okay, so >> try it now. >> Try it now. >> Yeah, I'm I I muted my speaker so that So you're good. >> So I've got my audio on.
Hopefully people can hear us. Jack, how about now? Loud and clear. Thank you. Appreciate that. Okay, I'm going to call us. Welcome everyone. Happy belated Thanksgiving. I'll call us to order at 2:3 p.m. which is the Marblehead School
Committee budget subcommittee and Marblehead Finance Committee School Liaison Subcommittee joint meeting today. So thank you everyone for coming. Um I would like to ask the I guess both committees we have um an agenda with
public comment is item number four right before adjournment. I would like to ask um if everyone agrees to do public comment at the beginning. I think we've got one person here. We might have some folks online. Um and we can certainly do one at the end as well if there are folks here. I don't know why I did that.
I apologize though. Is everyone okay with that? >> That's fine. >> Okay. All right. So we're going to move public comment to the beginning. So, I will go here in the room first and then I will go online. So, um uh hi Sarah. Did you I don't know if you wanted to do public and then I'm off to
school pickup. Um Sarah Fox, 46 Speed Street. Um I am looking forward to watching the replay of the meeting because I have to leave early and hearing this address um later on in the meeting. On June 9th's enrollment, the Monday enrollments that come out, our
enrollment was 25727. Today's enrollment was 2511. In less than 6 months, it's a 216 student decline, which uh is 8%. Now, this it, you know, can't be attributed
necessarily, it can't be attributed at all to people's unhappiness with the previous school committee. Well, this entire 8% decline has been post sitting a new committee. Um, I'm my concern is that in a town when people
track numbers so closely, there needs to be tight messaging around the budget and how this decline in enrollment, which is unprecedented in my time here. Um, which would be 13 or 14 years in the school, completely unprecedented to have an 8%
decline in one year, but along in less than six months. how that is translating into your staffing lines because if this question the camps answered there is no hope for getting additional funding in this entire town I believe is going to be looking for additional funding someone who's tracked these budgets for
a long time we've seen this coming it's not shouldn't be a surprise to anybody for 20 a prop two and a half I am in no way shape or form saying that funding wouldn't be warranted but it certainly needs to be explained in a very tight way because when you have an 8% decline
line in enrollment in less than 6 months. There is a strong question of why you're not seeing a significant decline in employment as well. And we have not seen that materialized in in
the last you know 14. The last large um decline in positions was 33 positions in three years ago. the vast vast majority majority of those were unfilled positions as we all
so I just look forward to hearing the next >> Thank you. Thank you Sarah. Appreciate that. Okay. Anyone else? Anyone online? If you are interested in speaking, please raise your hand. Um I see Kate Thompson. Okay, Kate, I'm
going to unmute. You should be able to unmute, Kate. >> Can you guys hear me? Can you guys hear me? >> All right. Now, try it, Kate. >> Can you guys hear me now?
>> We're not hearing you. Um, see >> I'm just going to talk >> We can hear you now, Kate. >> Okay, great. So, I sent an email a little while ago, but I wanted to reiterate in public comment so that it's on the record. Um, I I looked over the
agenda for today's meeting and I did not see any minutes on this agenda for approval and I'm concerned that a backlog of minutes that existed through last year is now growing. And so I would like to formally request that this
subcommittee produce minutes for the following meetings. three this year so far and that was on 1017 10:30 and 1117 and then I think it's five from last
year 10247 213 228 and 318 some of those have recordings on the YouTube and some of them do not but all of them need to have minutes publicly posted so I appreciate your attention to this matter
>> okay thank you just give me a second here. Okay. Um I don't see other other hands raised. Is anyone would anyone else like to make comment? Okay.
All right. So, let's move on to um our first item on our agenda, which is the FY27 school department budget planning and reporting. This is basically a next step from our last meeting which was on I believe October 30th.
Did you want to share your spreadsheet Mike? >> Um yeah I guess I shared it with some people but not everybody so I apologize. Um I took what had provided earlier and kind of divided up a little bit. Um,
I delved a little deeper into it and um, drill down a little further and kind of put some things in the buckets that were going to do two things. I'm going to put up on the screen there also. Same thing, but I don't think we Oh, I'm going to have to cast from my >> Yeah, if you do the Windows C.
>> Yeah, but actually that's not going to go to I'm gonna have to do it from share from my from my uh, Zoom window. Ready to see that? >> Yep. >> So, um are you guys in >> I have it on. >> You have it on yours.
>> Okay. Yeah. Y >> uh so what I did was I I took um buckets by department and you'll see that I you know by school the five schools there. the athletics department, uh, student services, teaching and learning, finance and HR, technology, facilities,
superintendent, um, one of the departments, and then, um, so I've got one for administration, got a grouping for clerical, and then I have teachers, which I broke down by preK, K, gened, and
>> that's okay. No, I just have to mute. should be a Windows. Yep. Function function F maybe um hang on should >> All right. This is fine. >> Okay, great. So uh we brought the
teachers down by prek, kindergarten, gened, uh e teachers, encore and electives. So that's our art, music, PE at the elementary levels and then it gets into engineering and library and uh library at the elementary also. Uh and then as we get into the high school,
some of the elective courses up there. Um intervention is um well like reading teachers u math intervention is uh special education and special education teachers and that is kind of
runs again it's our therapeutic programs our ABA programs it's our intervention programs or our inclusive programs so they did not break it down any further than just special education at this time >> so intervention is not considered special education
Not not necessarily. >> Okay. >> Yes. Go. >> Would that be title one like title one tutors? >> Uh no, it would be teachers because it run the teacher. >> Okay. >> Uh this would be more like reading specialists, literacy specialists. Um >> math interventions.
>> Math interventionists just >> and they work with all different students. >> Yeah. >> Uh so you have a special education. Uh you'll see lane changes there just because this is the budget. We did have lane changes budgeted in there. Those are for teachers who inform us that
they're going to advance on the uh horizontal I believe horizontal side of the scale uh for maybe national masters plus 15 credits or you know we have to go up 75 credits at least 60. Um
and then we have some some summer salaries in there just for um teaching and learning. our the majority of our summer special ed salaries are paid out of the idea grant. So it's why you don't see summer so much under student services.
>> So you have these these costs are only from the >> appropriated portion of the budget not from grants. >> Correct. Uh and then we get going to special education services. We have the team chairs one at each school. Um,
so then the license would be our OTPT SLP. I should have g I had to think about that myself just looking at it. Uh, so those are those are um OTP SLP possibly BCBA. Yeah, BCBA would be in there also. Um, they hold the license
and then you have the supports. So under the supports would be the OTAA, PTA, SLPA. So there's a occupational therapist assistant, speech and language pathologist assistant and uh occupational physical therapy assistant. So
>> that's all under licensed. >> It's under under support. >> Yeah. So those are the assistants. So the licensed are the people who >> it's the OTPTSLP and then right below that you have the OTAA, PTA, SLPA >> and then so some are under student services and some are under the actual
building. Nope. Those are all under student services. >> Okay. So, it doesn't add. Is it supposed to add up horizontally? No. >> So, license I have license Brown. Uh, so those are OTP SLP at $240,000 budgeted.
License glover SLP whatever. Um, $275,000. Village $369,000. That's $284,000. Um, >> and then what's the 5527? So those are are primarily BCBAS. So the BCBAS are bas are based out of the district.
>> Okay. So that's so the total must be are on the far and the right. Okay. >> Uh it didn't total each line but yeah that can tie it to student services 2.7 million. >> Okay. >> But I didn't break it down. It is a spreadsheet so it can be very simply formulas in there. Uh substitutes. So uh
at all the schools now we have at least one or two at least one in some cases two permanent subs. Those are substitutes for full-time 180day employees. They are in their own collective bargaining unit. And then you'll notice on the teaching and learning because I didn't know where
else to put it. I have got the day-to-day sub. So it's the people we call in day-to-day basis. Let me get into our instructional assistants, formerly known as tutors. Uh and I broke that down again by prek, kindergarten,
uh gen edge. You'll see those just go through um the elementary level. Those are your our math and literacy tutors uh on line 27 there. Uh special education are all special educational instruction assistants. Some are assigned to classrooms, some are
assigned to onetoone students or small groups. Uh and then we have our lunch and recess monitors. um they actually fall under different collective bargaining agreements first four groups but these are under operational support personnel
um but have a very similar role and then you'll notice in summer there we do have a small amount of money under in summer for teaching and learning I think Julie has one one position in the summer for uh literacy math tutor
gened. So true. I mean this 2359 could actually go up here on the gened, but I tried to break out somewhere so people could see where that was. Uh so then instructional coaches um these are you so you'll see under all
the four five schools 24,000 30,000 48,000 30,000 and 55,000 those are our teacher leader sessions. And then right up above on line 33, there is a $79,000 uh instructional coach. That's at the
high school. That's a data coach. >> And then over here on the teaching and learning, you'll see we've got um our districtwide coaches, more so curriculum development and implementation. >> So what's the total on that line? Total
73 $32,000. Uh but So that's like four or fiveish say um full-time employees that >> they're not their statement is not full time
what's under teaching and learning >> right I yes correct those would be probably for full-time >> and how is that allocated so it's not really to a school do they work across a >> yeah they work across the district >> like okay and so they'll do like all
math across all grades maybe or >> yeah and they they're they're working on curriculum they're working on PD professional development curriculum uh and then I believe they also work uh in a classroom environment to support teachers who um may ask for additional
assistance with new curriculum or >> yeah especially with all the curriculum that we put in place >> how many people is that you know that will come later I guess 433 Are you still seeing my old screen? The screen your screen has changed, right?
>> No, >> it's good. >> Um, uh, I've got four instructional coaches. Yes, four instructional coaches and there may be a little bit more in there because the four instructional coaches this year budgeted is about $45,000. No,
it's at 433. So this somewhere around $28,000 is coming out of another line, but those are for instructional coaches. Typically those are uh well they are all teachers. They are all in unit A and
they are typically experienced uh highly educated um experts in their fields. that show 28,000 in it's there somewhere. Um >> just to help us understand like how do you know that four is the right number
there is I guess I'm trying to get a sense for you know because this feels like a is this this line I had some questions on because it's I don't understand it as well as like some of the more obvious. >> Yeah, most of it's K most of it's around that. Um it's it's working with the
teachers and the administrators to make sure that the curriculum is is the coaching's there that the data is collected that you know um they're working on that all those pieces. So um how do we know that's the right number?
I mean it's >> yeah it's it's quantifiable probably not as quantifiable as you'd like it to be I guess. Um, so you know, we have to look at, you know, it's hard to it's hard to say, well, this this amount of coaches for this amount of students is the right number. That's that's a little bit more
difficult than saying classroom teachers have, you know, x amount of students and that makes sense. Um, >> so yeah, it's a bit hard to find. >> How do you think about it then? You can't quantify with numbers. How do you like think about the stat? >> So we look at Yeah. So we look at um the
staffing patterns. We look at you know the needs at the district. So for instance like at the lower elementary levels they they they provide more more services than as they go up higher as kid the kiddos are in more need when you know at the grade level. So most most
ways that uh you know there's a lot of support at Brown and you know offensive um you know they provide all those services um so that the staffing can ensure they provide the right resources
and the curriculum and instruction to the students so that they can you know make payments. And then we have uh one of our data which is she'll have all the data kind of that'll speak more than I can but um
there's that engaged. >> Are these coaches student facing or they're both they're both because in my mind I and I'm probably wrong in doing this think of this as the curriculum support side of the we typically used to
have curriculum directors. So we have we have one is curriculum director >> one a curricular director and the other one's instructional coaches working with the student like kind of think of it as like um embedded PD really so instead of having someone just come in and say hey Molly this is how you do this curriculum
you walk away say hey Molly this how you doing this curriculum and then show show the show teaching teaching into the so that it's ongoing and in bed so um so that we can get more out of the teachers and more out of students by having extra level of support.
>> I I do think this is like from if you go back because I it's been around for a while. So if you go back Pat you might remember we used to have curriculum directors >> from that was the standard model for years and years and we had I think we had two districtwide. This is back in the you know early 2000s to mid 20 until
we hit um the recession and it was a different role. They weren't student facing. they were just there to develop curriculum and um observe and supervise teachers and provide evaluations to teachers. So those pos and those are admin those those were administrative
they were not unit A those positions were eliminated under Dr. DUAC and the so this is my understanding of the chronology both on and off the committee. The the role of the curriculum director at that time was
recreated in the form of the um lead teachers which we do have stipen for. So we said, "Okay, we're going to take that and we're going to take that whatever version of that budget and we're going to stipen teachers who are tenured experienced teachers to provide the coaching and mentoring for younger
teachers or newer teachers or what have you." They didn't have supervisory responsibility. They couldn't evaluate. They couldn't, you know, do any of that. So now we also have this. So I think it's just to put you. So this is and because so that is at some point these got these were brought in. I don't know when. I must not have been out of
committee. I know we've heard a lot about how the curriculum over the last few years at least since my kids have been in the district you know have really more uniform curriculum across the schools you know you know horizontally and vertically I think so I'm assuming all
that is also part of >> well yes and no because curriculum directors in my experience would help determine curriculum I'm not sure the I could be wrong that instructional coaches do that I thought that was more on the teaching and learning So, so,
>> right, she she oversees that department and so she oversees the curriculum director and instructional coaches and they work together to determine with the school um teachers what curriculum needs to be you know what that what we look at it and then what curriculum needs to be
replaced what what does it need to be replaced with what training do we need all that and it's on like I said it's ongoing and I think the lead teacher is is different than than that the lead teacher is more around how they how they um help collaborate and communicate amongst the departments and the grade
level teams so that you know the PLC's that they have the teacher leaders run that you know so it's more cohesion and collaboration um that's a lot of what they do um so it's and then they work to together too so it's it's more um interwoven than it probably used to be
cricket vectors here saying this is a cricket we're going to do they're pushing it down this is um kind of pulling it from the bottom up and then out >> and again I've seen a significant investment I would say or engagement in when you talk about data like Il for example that we now get reports as
parents on you know how our kids are doing in ELA and then on math and and as part of this investment we've have like written wisdom we'll have a new math curriculum I believe too >> is it fair to say then so I as since just again as in my experience as a parent I've seen an investment in
curriculum is that sort of what we're seeing also on the salary line so it sounds like there were to >> physicians before now there's you know it seems like it's a bigger team coordinating this now but it's >> you know at least as a parent you can
see there output from it at least that I've been happy with but um I just trying to >> tear you know trying to piece together what is this investment right we're spending more we're getting more right I mean is that >> it's a whole it's a completely different model from what I understand the
previous models >> like said it's top down before now it's not top embedded. >> It might be helpful at some point to have either descriptions or an orchart. I don't know something if it might be helpful.
>> I I don't know. >> This is I think it's all I need. I mean, this is this really is helpful to me in terms of understanding sort of how you view >> the district and operationally. I mean, I learned a lot this summer. >> Yeah. And I'm probably not doing it justice the way that like Julia can
because that's where she lives and breathes and does. Um she probably spend more thoroughly than I could, but I I can tell you that um the feedback and input and and what all those folks do day in day out is is
very valuable teachers and making sure they're doing what they need to be doing because what happens if you just drop curriculum in say you have co day training and then you don't have that support. It's kind of multiplied as always experience and this is a way for that not to happen and also to say how do we push our kids? How do we increase
the is all part >> well that's also you know at the end of the day what you really need to say too you know that's not what this discussion is but this is all an investment and you know what's >> Yep. So, so Jen, what you're looking for like a roles and responsibilities
summary or the different positions because that that could be very useful in terms of communicating the um the the the roles and responsibilities of these positions where it could it could be
um you that there's potential overlap with some back to the curriculum director. positions. I don't remember only two. >> My my earliest recollection this 10
years ago, but yeah, right. But but there were more there wasn't just math. I >> think he was m we had Robin Berg and she was ELA in social studies. >> Robin I forget. >> But but then did that didn't that kind of morph into the lead teacher role? those were eliminated those positions
and the and the role became the responsibility of the lead teacher. Right. So, I mean, you still got the teachers in >> in the current structure. >> Now, you've got addition these other positions. And I'm just trying to be
able to >> to show where >> I think the difference is the lead teachers are teaching in their classroom dayto day. the lead teachers a stipen stipended position that allows them to um like again help help to
>> they were before too >> and it wasn't it wasn't effective that's why I went to the that's why I went to a different model so the curriculum instructional coaches are they don't have their own classrooms but they're in the classrooms they're in working with the teachers they're working with the students they're working with each other and working with the different grade
levels um making sure everything's being addressed and put in place been taught the right ways. Um I think >> yeah I think it would be helpful to just see that written down for the broader community because like how you're describing it I'm like oh it makes
complete sense but for people that have been around for 10 years they're like well we got rid of that >> curriculum director to be honest with you I never knew instructional coaches I I heard them I >> never knew actually what they did so if
I don't >> Yeah I can I'm sure they being created >> and that also is helpful for the vast well vast but for the public who isn't involved see it in the school
and and and recognize the value added >> and I've seen I've seen the improvement in the coordination across and also you know especially transition from school to school like like I've seen it but you know >> being able to communicate that I think >> for sure yeah that makes sense and I
want all four under one thing I'm not an expert in that side of >> slight of person she's she she relies at high school so she >> but it's a you know it's not an insignificant port you know it's not huge but it's not insignificant part of
the salary line so >> I just keep moving um guidance so this is one of the counseling this is one of the areas that I need to dig deeper into um I can tell you the one that's probably most accurate is the high school between guidance and adjustment uh school adjustment counselors
typically a special education position. Uh, and a guidance position is typically middle and high school. So, as you can see, Brown appears to be heavy on the guidance side and light on the adjustment counselor side. I think that's probably flipped if not 100% school adjustment counselor, but
>> it's it's what's in the name and I think some of this is like we we this and Mike and I have been having this conversation and it's school adjustment counselors generally special ed providing counseling services. We also have um staff that are considered social workers because that's what the licens says and
they could be specialized they could be gen depending on what they're doing and then we have regular gen ed help the kids get into college applications and then there's bifocated like the middle school where there's
working so depends on lure so not I didn't mean to but this has been an eye pain to figure out because you know I think it's everybody's interpretation of you know are they special enemy so it's more for Mike it's more getting them in the right silos that from my perspective
it's what is their actual actually providing services because I think a lot of people call themselves counselors in Mike's world that may mean jed but they're doing specialized counseling so those are the things we need to kind of just it's just going to take a little bit of enabling to get them in the right
spots >> from my standpoint point. It's important just to get them into GenEd and special broadcast, but we're reporting it right to the state. So, our expenditures are accurately reported and reflected when people go on to Destiny's website, pull down expenditure reports, we're actually showing that we're spending money on
special ed counseling or genetic counseling or social work. >> So, gened is guidance and special ed is school adjustment. G. So in in in the purple yes in marble head it's not that simple yet because we haven't we haven't
se >> I think that would be a good thing to do. Yes, that's for >> I also think the purposes of this I'll I'll speak for myself for my purposes on this subcommittee is
>> yes the you know which bucket they're in is important but is the staffing the correct >> memo >> is that is that that would be my question >> it's in the right bucket and should be able to more easily determine that it's the right
>> and who helps to do that >> for meeting that's part of our meetings talking about >> it's a combination between principles and the specialized student services department because I think they're both kind of not on the same page either and I'm not saying it's a bad thing but um
it's a bad thing but it's not >> anybody's fault that they're not on the same page I think it's just a question of >> wouldn't someone's case load help determine I mean >> think a lot of it goes down to how was the job posted five six 10 years ago uh what is their lure with desi are they licensed as special ed are they not
licensed as special ed There's there's I think there's many levels to this onion >> and these these have not these haven't been dealt with in >> I don't know >> obviously right it hasn't been dealt with >> has been dealt with this last year and a half in which one one of the things that we've identified needs to be dealt with. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. >> Um so then we get into nurses. This is obviously your health officers. Um, you will, you know, you'll see that, um, I put the athletic trainer in there just, and I know it's probably not nursing, but it's probably the closest I could
drop it into to make sense. Um, and as you'll see, um, the high school and the village have two nurses, and the other three schools have one. I'm sorry. So, if you look at the Brown School, you have a licensed nurse and you have a CNA. That CNA position was
budgeted. It wasn't needed this year originally and was moved into an instructional assistant position, but now would be due to moveins. Uh we do actually have a need for a CNA. So, we're moving pieces around the puzzle to get the CNA position back into work
belongs, but this was budgeted, not actual. Uh and then you'll see under student services, there's a a small $5,000 amount there that is actually a stipen for our which is in the unit A contract. uh transportation. Um I I will say we
put everything under student services for transportation and I'm not sure that that is entirely accurate. Um the big buses are typically not special education or student services. They're usually gened for for lack of a better word. Um I just don't have really
grouping for them here. And I'm not sure that we've broken out our drivers to be sped special ed or general ed bus drivers. Is that necessary do you think? >> Um it's a small number. It's of a bigger district with with different This is again this is only in district. This
isn't our out of district. It's not out of district. Yes. Out of district is not >> salary because we run it ourselves. So that's not included in the spreadsheet. This is strictly in district. But I would say it's probably 5050 on those drivers. That 298,000 is probably 150,000 is probably special ed. 150,000
is probably gened. And that's just so folks know that if you have a child on an IEP and they need to be serviced at a school that is not their typical school, this would probably be on the elementary level. We >> not just that also it could be um the students in the right school in the right district. They just can't safely
get themselves to school. Okay. >> Could be a physical cognitive some reason that they are not probably not safe >> and we are transporting them >> in no mto is fully when I think of Mcinto I think of it as
kids who are not living in Marblehead >> or not going to school in Marblehead but living in Marblehead. Um that's a contracted service. We hire our companies to do that for us. We do have Mckin Vento in town, but they typically ride the big bus. So, it's it's part of that. >> And Mckin Vento, in case folks aren't
familiar, is for homeless and homeless. It's the name of the the bill in the federal government. Um, but that is the governing regulations if you're homeless student. And homeless can be >> you don't have a permanent address, you are staying with someone, but you
doubling up >> doubling up something like that. So we are required to transport them to Marble >> or >> or from Marblehead within Marblehead or somewhere else back to Marble because that we were there. >> They get transported back to their last school. Right. >> Right. >> Okay. >> As long as we try to keep both in an
hour or sometimes close. That's what the determination has been. >> Uh that brings us down to the maintenance department. Um so I I broke that out by custodial maintenance. So you'll see maintenance is not covered in way down the end here. Uh and then also these are our tech technology um
maintenance. These are our technicians. Um but then you have your facilities maintenance. So I did break it out a little further. Um but in here this is really your custodial grouping right in here. Um in per building um that 23,000 under athletics, those are the overtime
for custodians for athletic events. It isn't that that is a budget item. I did put security under the high school and um athletics assist police details and other security for athletics.
>> Can I ask a question on the technology maintenance? So um if I look at sort of the technology at the top in administration we have the 318,000 for >> so that's typically three salaries three and three salaries that would be our uh
IT director our network director network not director but network manager um also dental school communities um and then what would the idea that they are not supporting classrooms well they do not they
their administration, >> right? Their primary role is not to support classrooms. It's to make sure the data is right that, you know, systems are all up and running. So, they're supporting the classroom, but not CRA teachers. It's usually the entire district something has gone down or
something needs to be upgraded or something needs to be uh yeah, >> and then down below it's those are the individual building work with our teachers, work with our staff. And it could be it doesn't necessarily need to be our teachers. Um but it's to work
with our staff. >> I thought we um >> Memorial Day four >> I think four >> mind if I uh just say a couple things just because I have to I have to leave
unfortunately on 250. So I know you have a lot of questions about technology and and some other categories. Um but I just wanted to like check in on this. Um, we can obviously have followup meetings. Uh, this was very helpful to put it in
from your all perspective this summary. Um, because it's much more detailed than the way I did it, which I expected because I didn't know exactly how how these buckets would would. >> It was a good start. >> The direction, right?
>> Um, so that's like step one. That's last year's budget, right? You're obviously building this year's budget. Um this year's budget we're building this is 26 we're building last year's approved budget approved
>> um gened tab which we you guys can go through and we can follow up on I can get an update from Molly whatnot that's sort of like you admitted last time that's probably the easiest bucket to kind of analyze right like you
have the number of teachers versus the number of students in those classrooms Um, I'm sure there's some that are high or low. We could talk about that. Um, that's kind of like step two, beginning, right? Um, from my perspective. And then
the rest of step two is the hardest part, which is all of these other now that we have the data summarized and you're going to build I I think about building this year's budget in a similar format. Like if I was doing this, which I'm not telling you how to do it, but I
would look at this format for okay, assuming we we make no staffing reductions, no additional staffing hires, how do I summarize the budget per the contracts in this format? And then now you're you're tasked with a preliminary expectation of a flat
budget. >> What does this summary look like a you know, how do you have to adjust that and where are you going to adjust it? Right? and and the comparison of those two should tell us where you where you had to reduce
because you're up against that. Um but also, you know, a conclusion, well, are we how are we going to how are our service del how is our service delivery going to be impacted by these reductions? And sort of tie that into
well, is there room in the salaries and wages line? That's the overarching question that I think that enrollments decline has we we talked about that when we first met. We've been over it in these meetings. Um is there room now that you've been here for a year and a half, you know what I mean? Um and and
where are those areas? If there are if there's not then you know it are are the numbers right? I talked about every cell I know that's crazy but like greening out everyone like is this the right number for brown for this? Is this the right number? You know what I mean? And
some of these I would I would work through the easy ones first. Like Jan, not not that it's that easy, but like do we have how many janitors are at Brown School? Like you need a janitor, right? We're probably not overstaffed in janitors, right? So that you could just green that out quick presumably. That's
just an example. But when you get into like, you know, like Jen talked about the special ed services, how do you how do you justify the right amount for that per school? Is it the number of kids receiving those
services? Is it a percentage of the overall budget? I think Molly and I kind of she can get into the details backed into what we think is a total special education percentage of the wages. And you know, in your experience with with your background and then the combined
background of deep expertise in special ed and then now as superintendent in multiple jurisdictions. >> Sorry, I'm a tax guy. in jurisdictions or um you know is 25 to 30% whatever that number is you guys agree upon the data
we think it's somewhere in there is that is that normal you know what I mean like how do we look at that and and this is just from a budgeting perspective this is not operationally it's like is that you know are other districts spending you know x percentage of their wages on
special education you know what I mean is there some sort of methodology at it from the percentage point that is >> the way to start because I think you know that we could look at that and compare fairly easily. I think I think the operational part is where you get
into the what is stuff that you know numbers people like because it's it's it's almost impossible to quantify because you can say your classroom specializes six kids and your classroom special has eight kids and yours is 12 but your six kids can be way more needy heract
in her room and your room one in there. I mean those are the things that I think you know Bali has done a ton of analysis on. I don't think there's anything that's just numbers wise jumping out as out of whack in terms of school size versus the size of
different categories here. But I think just because of that enrollment that we've talked about you know it's sort of like a fresh approach to building the wages budget. And you know my my overarching question is when you build that wages budget for this year up
against what whatever is the final message to you all what's available for the schools right again I don't think I I am the final I know that we've said flat but that's not I'm I don't work for the town I haven't given you that directive right that would come from the
town leadership um but that's my expectation based on the other meetings we've had so when you do all that like can we come up with this summary in a way that we feel comfortable that the
the services being delivered to the number of students we have enrolled at the schools is the right number and if it's less than what we have in here adjusted for the contracts what's the impact of that and and is it is is the conclusion is there you know there was
room here maybe allocate that elsewhere or is the conclusion that you know there's a severe impact that's kind of I don't know if that makes sense >> but you would we would need to quantify it somehow >> right I think so I think what I can say is you know the work that Mike and myself and the rest and team are doing
with the principles is is doing exactly persu hey we have new buildings how many students you have new buildings what are the classrooms look like if there's if there's some areas we can look at programmatically what can we look for in potential um movement or reduction of
staff and then see where that lands kind of that's the first shape, right? And then um it can come to fruition. So we should have a pretty good idea of like like you get down to a number that we're comfortable with providing services for students without going too far out of
whack and causing reparable harm to students. And then um and then come back and say, well, okay, that's great, but you don't have any money to even support that. Then what does that look like? And that's when we look at okay well now this classroom sizes are going to go from this number to this number because
we have to reuse x amount of staff to get to that to get to the number that we need to get to. So that's the work we're doing right now and I think we're in a pretty good space with that. >> Yeah. >> You've already done the first >> most. Yeah. And and I guess maybe I'm
competitive but um like it's possible. I'm not saying this is the case, but it's possible when you do this analysis. You know, you guys are new here. You inherited this, right? You're now you've now mapped it out in this way, and now you're building this year's budget with
more decline that we've seen even over the last year. There's a possibility that somebody doing this analysis could say, >> "Yes, we have a reduction in certain areas of this, >> and that's probably healthy." There's a possibility there, is what I'm saying.
Um and and we're just looking for that answer is is there healthy reduction to combat, you know, the challenges. It's not as simple as, you know, this is our staffing and we have a new contract and our budget's flat, so we have to fire
people and, you know, it's the it's the terrible world we live in. It's possible when you do an analysis like this that there could be room in the salary line, right? >> I I I think not not that we've done all that analysis yet. I think I think that would be a truism that there'd be some healthy ways to look at this and who
will find help in areas >> I like >> and it's and it could you know you're only looking at one year it could get even harder as the as the contracts escalate. So that there's a lot of factors here, but like thank you for put for putting this together and and I think the whole purpose of of kicking
this off was just trying to piece together a very challenging which you all know, right? You do it. Um, how do we approach this and and figure out a way that we can digest it, understand it better ourselves, and then communicate it to? >> I think the narrative has to be and and again, I said this from the very
beginning. I think we're all in the same we're in the same mindset here is how we get better. Um I think and I I feel better now and so you let me work my crankies a little bit. But I think um >> I think at the end of the day um Mike
and I are charged with making sure that we we create a budget that is tenable that's meaningful and doesn't really you know um undercut what we need to have for for students. And then no and then I think that delta is what evolution we
have to say we can't do with less than this and that's that's that's the piece of the pilot we're looking for from somewhere right and then sorry I got to run but the last thank you um the last thing I'm going to follow up with two simple requests um tonight when I'm
doing because I'm working on that threeyear it's a little different from what we just talked about it's kind of like our wages for the next three years I know the third year is probably out of contract, but your best estimate assuming you kept everything the same, like not adjusting staffing and then and
then the out of district. I can give you that template. I'll just build two columns. >> Same as last year. >> Yeah, it's I think you'll be able to do it in like very quickly, but if you could maybe I'll I'll send the request tonight. Maybe get back to me by Monday of next week if you could.
>> It just has to exactly be >> what? Um, so that would be Monday. And then do we want do you want to regroup? Maybe we can talk after that if you feel like we need to come back and because we're going to also talk about the calendar >> um to see when I don't want to be >> Monday that that's for like the townwide
exercise. It's just like two specific school data points that I think are large. >> I think it'd be helpful to have income back when we have you know >> Yeah. We we don't >> I mean what speaking >> we can give you
>> Yeah. As much as you'll get >> but but I agree like you know we want to give you space to do your work. You know what I mean? Um but I think we're on the same page that the methodology of this exercise is probably useful. Um, and you know, if you can keep it in that format,
it would be a good way to track, you know, where there would have been just increases to these buckets under contract as is versus where we land in the budget, right? >> So, >> can you copy us me on that? I don't know if you want to copied on that, too. Thank you. >> That would be great.
>> What's that? >> Whatever. I'll copy every >> Whatever I send you by Monday. >> Yeah. Um, yeah. And then >> I'll, you know, I'll let you know when that meeting happens. It's either going to be this month or next month. Probably this >> town wide. It must be all departments. >> Yeah, it is. Um we're bucketizing it by
the largest categories. So, >> same like what we just >> I wasn't on this committee last year. >> Oh, yeah. This meeting does not happen. I just know this. >> Oh, got like a threeear revenue versus major.
>> And for the third year, which will be out of contract, >> do you put in a place you must put in like state asked you to what you would put as your estimate and a one sentence as to why and that's it for the context you can't predict the future obviously
>> but you if somebody if the state asked you to do it right >> I mean I can I can project out I mean hey you can't do it because personnel is going to change you're going to have retirements you're going to have people who join and leave >> but if the same people were here in three years from now I can tell you what step and column they would be on yeah
>> and then you guys can put a percentage on that whatever you Yeah, we do know what percentage you think in your experience. >> I know 27. I know 28. I don't know. 29. >> Just put a placeholder percentage if you were tasked with doing it and we'll just document that.
>> 9%. >> Is that what it is? Yeah, but the point is that if our costs if if the way we structure the town of Marbleheads government stay exactly the same, everybody stays employed, we don't hire anybody new, we don't let go of anyone, then we don't consolidate
departments, we don't do anything. These are what our costs look like versus our revenues which are pretty easy to estimate for the next three years. We're going to see that it's going to be looking in the >> thought. Thanks. >> Thanks a lot. Everybody go with this
right here or did did we need to >> Is this any different from what we did? >> So you guys already seen it and >> and it hasn't changed. >> Correct. >> Yeah, they did. >> Is this 26 or 27? This is >> This is fiscal 26 budget. 26 budget.
>> 26 budget. >> Yeah, that's what Alec was working. >> Just really cover this quickly. I put the enrollments in there and then I divided the dollars by enrollment to give you kind of an idea per pupil. And again, that's just salary.
I just have to say it every time. I don't want it to be missed somewhere. >> Can I ask you um before we get down there, just I had a couple questions up here, too. So, one thing that Al sort of alluded to was on the special education. So, I was trying to look at it sort of
in total, right? So, and you can tell me this is the right way to think about it, but you know, student services sort of less some amount of transportation. Sure. right is special education and then we have the special ed teachers >> special ed teachers
>> we have the special ed services >> special this entire category yes >> and then we have the special ed instructional assistance >> guidance when I lay that out >> fig some amount of guidance so at but what I would say is the low end >> because I took out all of the
transportation >> that would be about 25% of total >> salary costs are going to special education and so I'm not an operator, right? And so this is where we rely especially with all of your experience. >> What would you is that a good target for
us to think about? Yes. >> Okay. And and can you just help us? >> It used to be around 18, but it's going to >> anchor that to something like you know something obviously easy would be like one in four kids.
>> It this way like say yeah. How many kids are in? How many special ed students do we have in the district? >> Yeah, we're like 20 to 30% of that. Don't quote me on that, but we're in that in that >> it didn't used to be there. >> And that's in line with the state. >> But so that's super helpful though
because to me like I'm like wow that's >> that's a lot but actually it's normal and it's relative to the percent of leadership and >> it's comparable. >> Okay. So it's just really helpful to to sort of anchor that to to >> and I think I think the thing that
that's a little bit different right now in MA and it's not it's not it's not unique to MA. It just happens to be the situation is that our tuitions are out of district tuitions in my opinion are way higher than I'd like them to be. Not maybe that they should be way higher than I'd like them to be.
>> So that's that's just that's a that's a target. We're going to try to bring that down. And I've said this a couple times. It's going to take a couple years to get to a point where we've built in district programs. We can pull those back in. But I think Melissa made the point before like, oh, what can't you move it in? But some of that tuition money becomes
salary money and you know, so it's not a it's not a reduced 100,000 a year 30,000 you know 30%. >> I mean the other question too about that just that pure percentage is you're not looking at the raw number of actual students right when we talk about the
enrollment. So 25% of students 25% of staff would still a lower number of enrollment though >> because has gone >> that's a different analysis. >> Yeah.
>> You might have a student that gets one hour of speech a week. You might have another student who gets five hours of speech, five hours of OT, five hours of P what whatever. I mean I don't know what what the grid would look like. You might have a classroom of
12 special ed students as John is alluding to or you might have one of six and those six are much needier than the one with 12. So to put a dollar >> Yeah. And it's also the same if you're looking at saying 23% of students are
technically in special education programs. That includes anybody who's on an IEP. >> Right. I just might but they're on an IEP. They're covered under that. Yeah, >> that's still that maybe that's the way things are.
>> I think I think I think having the conversation of percentages is just a lot more well it's easier to understand and it's more power to say and again don't quote me exactly on percentage but I'm probably not that far off have to look at it better. >> Well, it's not terribly out of line from
25% of staff. That's some >> No, but the question is >> well we're not saying 25% of staff. We're saying 25% of the south. >> Um, and again, you're not looking at >> I'm going to just take whatever data
points that we can, right? We're never going to have perfect information, right? So, what we're taking and this is just one data point that's helping us understand sort of >> operationally and financially the impact. And so, but what what I'm hearing you say is that perhaps the area
for improvement really is coming in. It's not as much, do you think, internally versus bringing in those? >> Well, it's both because we need to we need to adjust what's happening internally to be a bring those kids back in the district. So, for right now, that the tuition is going to stay on high end
for a little bit and so we can get those programs the way I'd like them to be because I want to make sure we're bringing kids back in >> and it's also to keep them in before we send them out. Okay. So, there's this culture shift change that has to happen because the thought process like, oh,
this kid's okay, I can't deal with this kid. My class wants to send him out of district. Or parents saying, hey, I want my kid at this special ed school and thinking it's kind of a badge of honor is what the child really needs. So, there's a lot of factors. Um, but yeah, so internally we have to build the
programs to a place where, and I say being comfortable because I don't want kids to come back and be unsuccessful, need to make sure that they have success. I need to make sure parents try to understand what the process is and that showing the services that they require. So there's a lot of moving
parts bringing students back into district replacements and has to have student teacher buying has to have student buying. So we do that when we have programs in place and we have them in pockets but not not think it's going
to affect the overall bottom line. >> Yeah. and and you know we sort of threw out the number of students as just one way to sort of pin this percentage down but you know to the extent you can think of other ways >> you know whether and I don't know what
they are I wish I did but you know but you know you understand this other ways to to tie that into an output right so this is and whether it's IEP hours or you know what is to to show us that it's
or show the found that it's right sized. >> And I think I think um I'm going to have Lisa Marie Bo do a an update on student services probably then not this week or Thursday but probably the next one. And my charge to her is to kind of share the
um the good, bad, and ugly around you know um you know district numbers challenges uh move in challenges things like that that really drive some of the the conversation. I think that would be helpful.
It's not all budgetary, but it impacts budget. So, you know, >> like for inance when you say administrative costs and stuff, yeah, oh my god, they might absorb them. Then you say to her, "Hey, I have 10 PRS complaints the parents filed with testing and we need to manage those
complaints and follow up the response to the police, but the parents fight, you know, it's not just, oh, I put a big deal on and millions of hours of people's time to to address those things." So, so it's all those things that no one sees, you know, it's just
it's it's part of the operation where it's part of real part of the operation. the extent to which we can help people understand that and understanding there's so many layers of complexity to it like >> and and it's funny because you know like like everyone else like you're an expert
you're an expert building that >> sometimes it's probably hard for you to explain like hey this is my understand so well and I mean >> so it is and sometimes like if I sound like I'm kind of not explaining well it's just because in my head it's it makes sense right so >> you know like a lot of business people
kind of they know how they build the budgets Sometimes it's like explaining to the lay people wasn't a physical thing. So, but we need to find a way to do that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Agree. >> Yeah. It's it's I I feel like you're being clear, but I also and it's I've
seen a lot of I've been so involved in the schools too and volunteer in these village and so I see a lot of these positions. It's nice because I can see them in a bucket that helps me articulate more about where >> we als and we also have to balance like hey when you have a budget is this and
specialized cost of this part of the budget was huge with also like we don't want to necessarily say like oh my god that's horrible you know it is what it is but we have to explain you don't want parents being like oh my god you're calling out my kid calling out the fact my child is dis his or her fault because
you know that's the whole narity >> but I don't think we're doing I mean we're fine. We're not doing >> be perceived that way. >> You know, but people are going to stand up at town meeting and they're going to ask questions and we're going to have to be able to answer them >> in a way to convince the town to fund
our schools at the level we need them funded at. So, we need to find a way, you know, to to do that. And the other thing too, like from and the other level is we've been hearing, you know, for quite some time about MTSS, which is this, you know, sort of early intervention of students. this whole
idea of intervening before they end up needing student, you know, special services. That's another, you know, like where are we on that? And and we've got I know there's a lot of a lot of challenges with with students today that we didn't have pre-COVID or starting pre-COVID,
whatever. Um was helping to >> which we need to be able to explain. And so I mean maybe the answer is if we didn't have the the MTSS and the other things we're doing now we would have 35% of our kids on IEPs. I don't know how
you quantify that but >> maybe there is a way to I mean there probably is. I mean you track every darn thing practically you know moment of every professional teacher's you know day. So that that might be helpful to know too um to talk about that. Yeah, we
used to look at, you know, you can certainly look at, you know, trends of like, hey, how many students did we have to evaluate last year and the year before and how many evaluating this year out of all books that we evaluate? company ended up on we didn't >> that's data we can pull and that's fairly easy to pull and you know it
looks like >> that would be great honestly like there's not you can never do too much data analysis and >> also the ideas around surprises right like because I used to remember in the past when we had in former administrations there were always
surprises like we didn't all of a sudden this student who we've had for years is now >> you know heavily needing services or placing out just first is if we're you know if we're tracking this and we're monitoring it there shouldn't be any surprises if this is where this ends up
after how many years of our you know working that it is but that's not a surprise it's been budgeted it's anticipated or you know >> any that's the best yeah best it just happened >> in and that's the thing is not I had a
conversation with somebody this morning of moveins we have a bunch of we have >> and the moveins were you I mean, I know you don't necessarily want to talk about it. There was a specific group of moveins that >> came in um with with some significant needs from some from a local community
that >> there were some changes that were made in um in homeing situations and >> yeah, >> some families came to Marble. >> Yeah. So, >> you have no control over that.
you have to service the students that show open your door and register and there are students we have to you know treat them that way regardless of whether they've been here for a minute or you know 10 years >> you know I think a badge of honor for us too is that we adequately serve you know we feel strongly that we adequately service students
>> when we do come >> all those things so you know just you know I was having conversation but even this year alone there just seems to be an exorbitant amount of initial evaluations of students for you know what a lot of it is when parents put it
in right under it. It's very difficult to do the testing. You kind of you can talk talk them through what you know exactly what are we looking to find out and we can kind of but you have to I request that you >> but you >> and there's a lot of that
>> but the issue with that is I mean in the scheme of of a child's IEP career the evaluation is pretty dimminimous and that's going to tell you whether they need services or not right. It's not that the like it's sort of this like if I don't know about it, it's >> No, no, no. No, no. That's not what I meant. Sorry, I wasn't clear. Like what
I'm saying is that when you have like right now we have we had to contract out services through like for um psychologist because that's that's that's the level I'm talking about. So when you have all of a
sudden 10, 12, 13 kids who are expecting case loads of psychologist and they have a certain timeline that they have to test at the end of day. >> Yeah. >> And the team chairs are trying to make schedule meetings. It's it has a trickle down effect. So that's that's all >> and that's all real, you know, in some
years some years that's you know, >> but I mean is it likely that a child all of a sudden a parent shows up on the genet the regulars doorstep saying I want my child? like there's been no discussion at all about any concerns and that on the teachers part >> it it yeah it happens more more
frequently in the state and then like right now of course we just had parent teacher conferences and then boom you know oh my kids not you know not here they're maybe here and I want to test it so you always get that push especially at the elementary level so we get a bunch right out the parent teacher confidence so you get a bunch more
>> correct me I mean we're getting in the weeds here but >> correct me if I'm wrong but like a parent I mean I guess what you're saying request testing but if there's no indication that this child has any you know need by the professionals are we
actually obligated to okay so we actually going to do an evaluation >> obligated you you can talk to them and say if they say this is a famous and this isn't just more likely I want evaluation of my child what does that mean it means I want blah blah blah blah blah blah well what and then you can have conversation what what area do you
think we need to look at because it spe sometimes you can get well it's really communication. So you do a speech development not psychoeducational. I'm going to go further out on the land and say if a parent shows up after parent teacher crisis says I think my child has you know needs special education services request an evaluation we
evaluate and they do and our professional staff hadn't noticed like I I just I don't know I guess that's where you know and that's >> a disconnect which should be >> typically in in a typical world and the world has changed in the last five six seven years
>> it would be the professional work with the and say, "Hey, we need to test this child." And have to miss the parent. It's kind of flipped in the last, you know, mid mid decade, you know what I mean? Um, just a
scummy away because >> I would this this is not the weeds. This is okay. >> This this is what's going to drive um the budget. So, it's it's important to have an understanding of what is driving
the what what is driving this and what options do you have. I think you you know having a conversation with parent is clearly the right first step um to to try to focus in on you know as opposed
to a global no value. Great. >> But again, then you should if unless it's a a brand new person into the district, a brand new child in the district and still have history with child's previous teachers that should in
in a perfect world. >> Yeah. Um, not not only should it have been potentially flagged early, but it's also rationalization and explanation to potentially share with the parent to say,
>> hey, you know, is sorry, it's not my job. >> No, no, you're not right% are I feel like the better. >> No, all that's true. Yeah. And that goes to administr you know overall
administration which I think again we're kind of coming out of the >> think so we're getting there but >> this budget season next budget season >> we still we're still feeling you know >> this this we're still finding new >> new
>> finding new strikes >> less and less but we're still finding >> they're not golden I pivot away from special ed for a minute and just um talking about sort of administrative salary costs. So when going looking through this you know
again having this format was helpful. So as I look at it sort of school level administration principles is about 3% of total salary cost which seems like very reasonable to me. I don't again not an operator but like you know seems
reasonable district level administration so that would be superintendent assistant superintendent facilities tech again that's about 4% of total salary costs again seems reasonable to me right and then clarify
sort of in total that this you know district level school level administration ation of 10% of total salary cost seems very reasonable to me. >> I I would think >> but I really I want your opinion. >> Yeah. No, I think I think I don't think if the conversation is are we are we
talking administration? Absolutely not. I think um >> I think you look at you know my salary everybody's salary we're in line with where we we should be. Um, in fact, I think quite frankly, you know, we have principles and assistant principles that may be on the lower end of of where they
could be if they went somewhere else. Um, just I'm not saying anything. >> And we also have one school that doesn't have an assistant. >> Yeah, we don't have an assistant as well. That probably good. And you know, things like that. I think um so there's no in my opinion like if you said, hey, we need to cut administrator, I wouldn't even know where I could.
>> That's that's kind of was my takeaway, you know, looking looking at this. the model of I'm sorry the model of having you know team chairs as administrators is something we inherited. Um but they're they're administrators but they're on the they're on the low end of administration. So I mean that that's not even an argument either to be honest
with you. Um I mean it could be for administrative numbers salary wise it's not really because they're a lot you know in line with what the teachers don't pay the administrator. So I don't think that that's tipping the scales at all in any way. So, I don't know if 10%
I can speak better to the special. I I don't know for sure, but it sounds sounds like that's a reasonable percentage. >> Yeah. >> Um, no, it's okay. So, um, again, roles and responsibility summaries for
administration staff is probably a good thing, too. So that again it's it's data that we can that we that you can share with the public relative to be because think about
the um you know the demographics are probably um >> going to say well we never had an assistant principal in our school you know when I went to school what do we need an assistant principal for >> we did though
>> I say spend a day spend a day in No for me. >> No, I mean I'm old and we had one at junior high school. We had we did >> student needs than they were. I think supervision evaluations come a long way. You can't have one principal doing >> 40 evaluations. It's just impossible.
Lots of hours in the day. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Quite frankly, if there is an argument to be had that we we should have an assist, the only school we don't have even though the numbers are smaller, the needs there are pretty high and I think you know but
>> but we have two at the high school so no >> right >> right yeah so >> yeah so again it I'm not saying good bad or indifferent just saying that that's information that
>> could be useful to anyone who's who's paying attention >> and hopefully there will be a lot of people paying attention because that's >> that's what we want. >> Yeah. >> And um facilities and maintenance. So that's about 6% of sort of total salary
costs which again like seems reasonable but it's a question for you you know if there are areas within that and bes because that includes some technology maintenance too it seems >> does it also include the bus drivers >> no but it includes okay >> so that >> we haven't done that deep dive yet we're
on the docket kind of doing school level first and then we're going into that um I would say at first blush like our custodial staff I think I think we're I think we're appropriately staffed. I mean, is there some wiggle room? Possibly. We have to look at really >> what I look at there is more like, you
know, um how many seconds should people are in the buildings? What does that look like? What's getting done? What's not getting done? You know, things like that. When you look at the high school and the middle school, then then it's a lot of square footage there. And you know, um Mike's done a really good job of overseeing um the department. They
have schools that are much cleaner than they were long ago. >> Yeah. I mean, it's issue of staffing. It's the issue of >> correctity the work. >> I think quality of work is something that might stress the staffing like numbers. I I don't I don't feel like oh my god they're tripping over each other.
I don't think that at all but we haven't done that deep dive yet. One thing I will say is this is just from where I sit in the chief seats having gone through our capital requests which we did um at our last meeting and just seeing you know that there's something to be said about you know townwide
having you know some discussion around townwide facilities oversight for both capital maintenance too frankly I mean you'll probably kill me for saying that but >> you know we're in the business of educating students now we happen to have buildings we're responsible for But I
don't know is it I mean there are models I think you might have worked under one where you had in your other district where at least the town was responsible or might >> where the town was responsible >> actually my next question because I think from our perspective you know we sort of see everything right and see
redundancies in different places and you guys have I think a pretty good working relationship with Alicia >> with the town to the extent you can find and articulate opportunities for that I think would go a really long way
in the town whether it's on the facility side, the technology side, the HR side, the the finance side. I I don't know what they are. I know there's a lot of things that need to be separate, but anytime you can find some efficiencies. There's just not that many places for it. It's not like we can go to a different district and share services
with Swampscott. You know, this is something share services within the town. I think you can. I think I think from my perspective it's hard because I don't I don't know where the red dances are outside the school district, right? For instance, I wouldn't know like maybe whoever's overseeing over
time like would they be they >> right? So like that is that is that a place that I would even like look to have some >> Well, it's also it's good for conversation. it, but it's also um subject matter expertise like this issue with the with the roof has kind of come
out that you know here we have so there's a whole process when you're building an entirely new building with the state and it's very prescripted but this case with the roof right there's no we don't have the veterans roof and the high school roof there's no roadmap saying okay you've got a multi-million dollar project here's how you know and
this is that >> there's more of a road map with the high school because we're required to have an OPM we're required to have a designer we're required to have certain oversight >> and still roof before we were not required to have a lot of that. >> Correct. But we still had some challenges. And so we've been able to bring in folks from the community to help us support us with that subject
matter expertise, but it would be, you know, if there was sort of a permanency to that, you know, it's not like, okay, thanks for, well, next time next time we have a multi-million dollar project, we'll try to find people that can help us. It would I just think that there's something to be said. got some place that we could we could join together
with the county be somewhere in that facilities realm is to have some type of a committee made up of residents who have subject matter experts. >> Yeah. >> In Wakefield we call it a permanent building committee. They looked at all of them but they didn't >> they were they were appointed or elected
board who really just wanted to make sure that the HBA system were maintained. >> They didn't tell us how to maintain them how much money they were making sure that it was done. We're looking at the for the town's assets and not so much for the actual day-to-day operation are
done. >> I'm sorry. Isn't there synergy for instance with the Mary Ali roof issues and the and the things that have been happening with the um library the there's >> the back sorry
>> the back. >> We did come together. We have we had a bunch of roofs that needed to be repaired. We did come together, you know, sort of with one Warren article. We did that. Yeah. >> Um but the actual management, in fact, that we don't have to get into it, but that in fact did not happen in the case with the with the high school because it
once it was bonded, all of a sudden it was sort of thrown to us like, oh, you have to have an OPM. So, good luck and we're going to go take care of Mali and that's the ones that don't need an OPM. So it's just sort of I I you know I just
this has got nothing necessarily to do with what we're talking about here but there are I think there's an opportunity there should be an opportunity to think more a little bit more strategically about how we want to oversight oversee these large projects because >> so you put in the ASP for the capital
planning to the so who does that go to oh Alicia so Yeah. >> And >> there's some horse trading that goes on and then >> and because all the other department >> horse right >> sorry I you know I think when I was in
Wakefield the facilities the maintenance of the plumber the technician the carpenters or electricians they reported to DPW. >> Yeah >> that is failure for the school department. We had over 50% of the property in town of the public property
in town and got about 20% of their response. It was not the director of DPW reported to the town manager. >> Right. >> So when the town manager said jump, obviously those guys were jumping >> Yeah. >> where they needed to jump and the superintendent had no control,
no say in where those guys spent their time. >> Yeah. That's detrimental. >> It was a disaster. It was a disaster. the buildings the the public school buildings were not maintained as well as they should have. >> So maybe the maintenance I'm saying maybe more on the on the capital
>> side planning and capital priorities >> be a similar argument for capital >> I mean so give you a much smaller scale right now we are out for quotes on >> no I meant >> oh um the the capital planning
um building capital planning all went through DPW also and I felt like we did not always get a fair share on that's okay. >> We told them it's very similar. We created a list of projects that we needed done. We gave them the list. They
ranked them. They decided which they had money for and it wasn't a 50-50 split as far as the if we have 50% of the assets, 50% of the capital money should go to maintaining those assets. >> Yeah. um instead it was it was still not enough as they you know as they saw
>> um >> and nothing I mean it's it's just a different community >> but their building committee actually worked very well we had we built a middle school and we had subject matter experts on the building committee >> but it wasn't just for that one school that they were assembled they were you
know people resigned or were added on at all any point in time um but it worked really well because you had it took a lot of the stuff that I No, I don't know roofs. I mean, you know, if I need if I have a roof question, at least I know a couple of names now and wait that I can call and say, "Hey, can you give me your
opinion on this?" We didn't have that. We didn't have that six months ago. >> You know, it takes a little time to develop that. And now that I know who to call, we got an HBAC guy in town. >> Been super helpful. You know, really,
you know, wanting to got plumbers in town, we got electricians in town. I think HVAC and roofing are probably two of the ones that >> Yeah. >> that cause the most problems, right? >> Yeah. Sure. Anyway, maybe that was just an aside. >> Um, can I ask you again just a random
list of topics? It's that you're going to be annoyed with me, but I'm going to ask it anyway. the >> so on the user fees you know if we look at this and I see you know athletics there's administration um some clerical transportation you know with the
increase in user fees from last year is there room to take some of this out of the general fund you know to show that as a as a savings you know a message you know to all of us like I pay this fee this is where it's going >> so yeah so so I wasn't here when it was
done but But I can tell you where the money went. So when they raised the user fees, they took all of the coaches out of the loafer budget and moved it into the >> Yes. No. And we prepare for that. Is there additional room though because the I mean the fees increase was
substantial. >> I think the accounting of the user fees >> needed some revamping and we did that very move to high school athletics. So all all user fees went into one account. high school athletics, high school clubs
and activities, middle school clubs and inter mural uh and village black upper elementary. Um they have their play and they have some some after school activities and everything. Everything went into one bucket of money. Uh everybody kept their own spreadsheets,
but I'm not sure how active they were. So I worked to break out high school athletics is their own revolving fund. Revenue goes into one fund, expenses come out of the same fund. high school activities in its own fund, revenues and expenses. Middle school one fund and
elementary school one fund. I think it just a lot more transparency. Um I I think well I I think Kent did an amazing job or does an amazing job. I think that one of the things that he could have that nobody had oversight over is how much money was Kent actually spending on
of of athletic money on athletics and how much of that was maybe high school activities going to athletics. You know I there was just no way to or vice versa. maybe his maybe his athletic money was going to fund something else and with no oversight and that's going to take a couple years to
flush through. But I think once we get through where we are, we'll be able to identify how much money we have and how much we we can we can either >> it would also allow you to differentiate your user fees. >> Well, so I think so I think
your point when you look at that big bucket of money and you say, "Wow, why can't we pay Ken's salary out of that line?" But if to Mike's point, if that if that bucket of money is only this much in athletics, it can't support that becomes the issue. >> Do you have some reporting on that at some point?
>> No, I will be nuts. We just we just broke it up. We haven't even distributed the revenues. I mean, we just set up the accounts. We told them to stop paying out of the right account. Now, we'll figure out the revenue where the money should have been to begin with. >> Well, to at least start getting the data as far as where we're spending the money. The other thing I I've noticed is
that you know Kent wants to redo some have a project in mind and I think to your point if he actually sees his money he's going to say well now I can afford to do those projects where maybe the district wants to do something. So we don't we don't scrutinize as closely on the revolving funds. We scrutinize them
but not as closely as to where they're spending it. Like I can't tell you whether the football team gets more money per kid than the tennis team or the hockey team or or whatever else. Kent can break that down, but I mean I don't have the staff or the or the
probably hours in my day. Not that Kent does or or Mark, whoever's doing that analysis over there, but it's very tedious and I'm not sure that we'll ever get down to that granular until I can set up the accounts to say, "Okay, here is football revenue and here is football expenditures." And that's
>> I'm not sure. >> But breaking out the accounts by function is >> Yeah, I think it was a win. >> Absolutely. Well, we still didn't answer question, which is do we have Yeah. Is there any room here? >> I think right now we do. Um, and I think one of the problems that we're going to
run into is that we set user fees at 500 some amount >> with a family cap of >> with a family cap. Correct. >> 20 something. >> Um, our it's going to pay mostly salaries, but our salaries are going up by 2% 2% 3% three and a half%. And there's been no discussion about
releases. >> Two, if you're paying the salaries out of there and you're not raising the fee when you're raising the salaries, >> it's almost like saying, "Hey, we're not the town's not going to give the schools any more money even though your salaries are going up." >> But they did say that. >> Um
well then that's a recommendation to the school committee. But I guess to M's point is we don't are we ending the fiscal year with you know hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars >> in the honestly hopefully next year at this time I will be able to give you that saying and say tell say you know we ended the year >> well you know how much whether it's one
or multiple buckets you know how much we have at the end >> correct and I just don't know how much of it belongs to athletics and how much of it belongs to >> but it still should be spent for like the question is can it be spent for some part of the operating budget >> well I see that more as like a one-time use right if there's a if there's a balance in that fund I wouldn't want to
fund a salary based on having a balance. Now, I'd want to know what recurring revenue is, right? Each year before I would actually fund a salary, >> but we do fund the salary. We do fun athletics or something on here and put it into the revolving fund. I want to
make sure there's a revenue line, not just a balance sitting there. >> Yeah. No, and I'm not suggesting that. I'm just suggesting, you know, are we using it? Are we are we are we forsaking things whether it's uniforms other things that we need because we don't have it in the operating budget and we're not spending it out of the
revolving fund so we're just not meeting that need that would >> I have not heard any I have not heard anything about us not equipping our students with the equipment the uniforms or the coaching staff that we need now I probably will get calls tomorrow >> yeah because I mean where do the boosters I you know there's a lot of
anecdotal stories that you know this stuff gets funded by boosters >> and I and I've been in districts where they where they want the revolving fund to to to fund warm-up sweats for the basketball team. Yeah. >> You know, no, we give you the shorts,
the tank top, >> we're not buying you the sneakers, we'll give you the socks or whatever it is, but there's a line where the boosters are are funding to make sure the kids look good when they get on the court. >> Yeah. >> Or when they get to the court. And there's where the district pays to make sure the kids can actually function on the court.
>> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. >> Football. make sure you know we're paying for reconditioning. Make sure the helmets all pass and you know the pads are all there and you know the jerseys are there. They they've got the pants with their pads in them and >> you know whatever else they need.
>> But but when but when it comes to do they have a nice sweatshirt to get to the stadium that's that's really not >> what were those items that you said you listed off a few things though under athletics. Oh, it's just on here like the administration. >> Yeah, >> the transportation, you know.
>> I mean, transportation should in theory come out of user fees or some of it. >> It does. And and it's probably 5050 right now. Um Oh, 50% comes out of user fees and 50% comes out of local budget, but you've got you got two salaries. You've got Mocking Kent. You've got um
>> But that can't come out of the revolving fund to the point. >> Yes, of course it could >> because our food service does. But and I but this is to Molly's point is if if I'm takingund 120 160 $180,000 out every year now I
don't believe we have 180 that we can continue to do that. We might be able to do it for one year >> and then what do we do that year after especially if we don't have >> I mean we're doing it for food services >> um food service can support it and we'll continue to support it. But we
also I mean we also could do projections on revenue like we I would think like food service you can you actually can project because we're getting money from the government for that right >> based on participation and based on funding from the government but yes >> yes but the user fees we also probably have some we could probably do some
>> well or like you know custodial piece like you said that's only 23,000 any >> you know yeah >> a smaller any you know you know if there are opportunities but I do agree it needs to have a recurring ing revenue stream we can tie to it but and if
there's a balance there then that can be used for you know some maybe one time >> upgrades or capital whatever it is you know I just would like to see >> you know it's good to have a a balance in it you know whatever you think is appropriate to have a balance carry
forward every year but to the extent there's any that have something more than that be nice to just >> let's use >> I would love to get to a point where we set up budgets for athletics I would love >> and for middle school programs and high school clubs >> so that we know, you know,
>> hey Kent, you said you were going to spend 200,000 on coaches salaries. You did that. Great. And you said you were going to spend $20,000 on baseballs and basketballs and whatever >> equipment you need, but you only spent 10,000. You spent$10,000 more on refinishing a field. That should have
been gone before capital to recondition a field. That shouldn't be on the user fees or whatever else. Well, and the other thing too is if you're spending whatever the activity fee is it 500 whatever it is >> right and your child's in the you know whatever club and there's you know and
there's one like you are you some people overpaying right like >> and that's so compet so when you get into the club it's 290 and unless you participate in every or any club you want >> except for athletics take athletics out of it so if you choose just to be in the
the chess club you're paying $29 to be in chess club. If you chose choose between a chess club >> society and something else, your cost is now $130 per correct. No less per activity, but you're spreading that cost. Oh, yeah. You're diluting it or
whatever else. But yes, >> so yes, if you only want to participate in one, yes, you're paying a higher fee. >> Yeah, >> that's that was >> before our time done by design, I believe. And um you know not not on my
list of things to worry about some someday when everything else lines up when is fully installed if we can actually project salaries accurately you know encumber salaries accurately and and protect protect our $49 million budget I'd be much happier to go and look at some of these other
things that are >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I don't want to say unimportant but lower hanging fruit or you know >> higher hanging fruit but less of it. Did you have any other >> just you know I look through I appreciate this. This is so helpful. We don't need to discuss it. It's to see
sort of the way I see it as class size. It's something that's you know operationally it's easy to communicate for people to understand you know allows us as a district to say you know what kind of school do we want? Do we want a school of 25 kids you know in the first grade class or you know whatever that
is? >> No this is >> this is the same spreadsheet. It's a and it and it's a different >> Oh, it's the genet. >> Yeah, I got it. >> It tells you average class size. And again, >> as I said,
>> yeah, just instrument is that it may be, oh my god, that class only has 17 kids in it. And it may be that those 17 kids have three kids who are um >> high and they may not be special ed, but
higher need. know we all know those kids who get a little hyper. You know, they might have some very high energetic kids in that class and >> putting additional kids in that class may not bode well. >> I think to having the projection too where you're basically keeping everything the same just taking it for a
year of shows. There's a lot of variability. Keeping everything the same, there is still variability that you deal with, let alone sort of the changes that you would see on top of it, like unexpected enrollment declines or changes. Anyway, so I just think this
was this was helpful to see and um >> think nothing else if we were able to level prime level service. in ter level service that immediately shows you do I need to move a second grade teacher to third grade because the bubble you know this shows us that if nothing else
>> and I think that that's kind of my question and operationally at what point how much flexibility do you have when you are making those decisions right and to respond to we hear a lot about like what Sarah thinks about changes in enrollment how much flexibility do you
have to change things based on >> so for instance like if you said if there was you know say five five first grade tops that 17 is 17 18 kids in the classroom and you say well I'll make it four and also that number goes 25 >> right >> or 26 or whatever the number is
>> how do you manage that so how do you manage that too >> but that that becomes an issue because sometimes you you say well you can't do that so you're going to have to keep it lower because if you don't you got to lower the classrooms and that's not good in the first grade classroom where you might be able to explode that classroom
a little bit >> more aptly at like say sixth or 9 to 12 >> or 9 to 12, >> especially 9 to 12, sure, but but you want you want to make sure >> you got to pres you got to try to preserve the elementary classroom sizes
as best you can >> um first and you look at the high tech, you know, the high school classrooms first and say which ones can we make so we can increase the size before you go to elementary just because kids at the
elementary need much more and Yeah. And an 8% reduction in enrollment doesn't isn't concentrated in any way. >> Correct. >> That's that's >> it's not that but that's over six months and it's also a much greater percentage
over five years, six years, seven years, eight years. So it's a real reality. Real reality. Um and I do think honestly it's discussion I think the school committee should be having is maybe doing some analysis on what's going on. Um because I I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know what's going on. And we probably >> financial standpoint, we're having incoming students that are going to be have higher needs. That's the you know, >> but we're still losing a lot. We've lost a lot of students. >> No, no. And and it's absolutely the
right thing to do to look at class sizes based on overall. But but this at least gives you data specific to great >> exactly >> it's one it's one piece of many the piece of data points I really need to
>> one of the pieces that you know you can look at a little more deeply is just even the reporting look at the reporting you know his reporting from years ago because >> I'm just looking at our own
>> I know that what I'm saying is like if it's 2511 today and it was 2776 whatever it was um >> in June >> in June um yeah I mean what accounts for that but
what also is is is there is there an account is there um a reporting mechanism that may not have been inflated numbers or deflated numbers >> well that's somebody when somebody took their Q folder and gave to a parent and said, "You're going
to go to Salem public schools now because you've moved. Here's your CUN folder." Did somebody actually take them out of Aspen at that point in time or did they wait until the start of next year? We weren't here. We There's no way for us to to know that. >> Well, we were since June. So, I guess
you know, like whatever. It's just Yeah, we we need to >> we need to I'm sure that is the exit in senior class was higher than the income. >> Oh, yeah. >> That's true. But if you look at the numbers lost 40 like we lost 25 kids in
the last week. >> Yeah. >> So according to the enrollment reports >> right but then like I didn't look at it that specifically but that's 25 of those were those because I don't report on the testing those are counted in the count. So now the test has been taken out. So we didn't really lose them. We just
didn't make it happen. That's right. That's that's kind of >> Well, then they can't >> we need to No, no, I'm saying that that's I think when you're looking >> I mean you've got them assigned to a the enrollment reports have them assigned to a classroom in a building. >> We have to have we have in order for us to test kids. So then when you look at
like the B school numbers or the the incoming we have to have them enrolled we have they have to be accounted for to be able to assess that. So, so, so kids, we may have gotten like >> say like 13 preschoolers that don't go to school here, but we have to test
them. We have to put them in our count. >> Like, for instance, I'm looking at last year's prek had 168 students and this year's prek has 130 students and this year's prek has 78. So I think it's those three kids are tough one because you might come in one day a week
comparable to know >> and now those kids actually may be here every day or the parents are doing some you know the students somewhere else. Prek is a tough one. Other grades are easier but prek is a tough one because we're recording them and we don't know how much you're actually here. >> Anyway,
>> do you see it drop after teacher conferences? Is that a driver? Aren't you that's like >> I personally think we should be doing and we asked for this last year is exit interviews or something some kind of way
other than just here's your folder good luck like and maybe some reporting on like who's going and where are they going now they may not answer us the you know parents may choose to opt out to answer a survey or question but you know and it may be that we moved but it may be that I'm pulling my student out of
the school okay we I would like to know that. >> Um, but this anyway, so thank you for this. This I just want to confirm sort of this ties to about it ties to just the gened teachers, which is like 30% of
Yeah. So, you know, 30% of sort of salary costs are tied to these numbers. >> This was the this was the easy to grab. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, but easy to grab. fabulous, you know, illustration of of what is a very big category. So, like I
think it's very valuable. But, you know, again, like kind of what we've been trying to do is get a sense for for everything else. >> All right. So, in the interest of time because we're getting up there. Um, the other next thing I had on there was the the SK meeting schedule. Mike had just put out a meeting schedule. I don't know if you have that with you, Mike, at
your or we could forward it to you. We just put some dates on calendar. Yeah, the calendar on when we are planning to meet, when we are planning when um um the administration's coming forward with a presentation to the school committee, then we'll have a budget workshop. Then
we will uh have a hearing and then we will vote. All of which is >> I'm not planning on bringing principles in. We'll get there last year. >> No, no, no. But there's going to be some or unless we're just going right to a hearing. But >> I think we're probably going to Well, depending upon how the budget thing goes. I'm not that was >> No, no. I I I agree. We can talk about
that. I agree, but I I think we might need we might need to present something to the school committee before the budget hearing. >> So when we Okay, we can talk about that. >> Yeah. >> So anyway, um then we have a budget hearing then we vote our budget before you >> Yeah.
>> vote our budget or I don't know, whatever you want to call that and then So you have a vote and then you have a warrant hearing. >> Yeah, you have two, right? Yeah. >> So we have that. So I'll just have Mike forward it to you. Okay. So there Well, this there there are the dates. just um you don't have to look at it decide now
but between you and Alec to um >> it was with that one whoevered that one didn't >> it was me sorry >> I didn't even get those I I just joking >> I forgot to send this >> I haven't even today >> I felt there was a problem
first and then get it to >> because I don't remember seeing this update >> yeah okay >> I was waiting >> even though you got somehow got the >> No you did too I sent it to all three of you, I think. >> Oh, well, if it was just today. >> Yeah, I don't remember.
>> Yeah. No, no, it gave me this. Yeah. And and Pat and Alec, I'm pretty sure. >> I'll go back and check that. >> I >> um but just so you take a look at the dates and just so that if anything jumps out and says, "Nope, this is a problem."
Um or this is wrong or whatever. We just want to make sure. And then I don't have any of these subcommittee meeting, joint meetings scheduled. We can do that as as needed and insert them in here. But just to give you an idea, can you tab up for a second to see for our hearing? Mike,
who's calling? Um, can you just tab up? So, we're looking at a our hearing, our public hearing on February 26th, potentially March 5th, the school committee votes. And then
that would show I think the 23rd or the 30th school committee presentation to Fincom and then April 6th your warrant hearing. >> Yeah, >> I'm setting off the right now. >> Thank you. Yeah, >> just we do have I don't know. I know Jen
shared it with summer or most >> the warrant hearing though it would just be part of your capital request and if there's >> oh if there's an over >> that would be because the yeah once we vote on your budget we'll be done. >> So I don't know what how we want to what next steps we want to do or where
>> you guys are going to spend the next two weeks meeting with principles and whatot you have to do the work. >> Yes, we have to do the work and then I'd like to be able to come back over the actual I mean this is great. I love this conversation to be honest with you. I think it's it's helpful and I think
>> we have the January TBD. >> Um John, you have February 5th or Mike has February 5th recommended budget presented to school committee. >> February 5th >> subject additional dates and or change. >> Okay. Yes. >> But I mean it is I am showing a
presentation prior to the public hearing. >> You have you have to. >> Yeah. That's all. >> Yes. Yeah. Okay, >> we have to present no no. >> We have to present and then we have a week or two that we need to let that >> be on display here >> and then the here.
>> But then what happens if school committee members have questions? So typically typically we would present the budget that money >> you guys can well they'll have Dropbox then >> and we should have it before as well >> and then we um then whatever questions
you have and stuff initially that night and then if we >> to who though you won't have your building principles here it'll go to you. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. >> In my in the my past experience we present one night >> and then have a budget hearing >> clarifying questions only not too deep of a conversation. Um, school committee
members would individually do not break our open meeting. You want to email the superintendent and the business manager >> question to say, "Hey, can you can you be prepared to speak about this?" >> Yes. >> Clarify at the public hearing. >> So, right. So, the public hearing is typically a meeting where the public
comment and then we go to a regular school committee meeting at the >> presentation of the school committee and then whatever questions they have. >> Yeah. And then if individual questions in between and then the next school committee should be the public hearing >> and that's for the public and but typically that's when the school
committee will vote >> or >> no we don't vote the same night as the hearing. No way because >> they want to think about what the public does. Yeah. Exactly. >> There's no comments from the public. Why can't they vote? >> Well, not February 26 is the budget hearing
>> to the school committee, right? And then on the 5th budget is on the 5th. >> On the 5th. Yeah. The next meeting. Yeah. The next meeting. So that gives the time for the public, you know, you could make any changes, whatever. >> And right. >> And it still gives us wiggle room if we
don't pass it on the >> We don't have to have it until May 4th, right? I mean, technically, you don't have to. >> We want we want Vim Kong and the school committee to have the same number. >> Yeah. >> In all of our best interest. >> I disagree. the same
>> because if we don't vote a number, they're going to vote a number no matter what we've done. >> But they're they're recommending. >> Yes, they are. >> They're recommending favorable or they're not recommending favorable. Correct. >> They're not they're not they're not giving a number. >> Well, we
consolidating. >> Yeah. I mean, technically what goes in front of town meeting is number we put there. >> Yeah. >> We also will recommend not recommend it. >> Yeah. So we don't that doesn't help anybody for that to not >> course.
Don't you guys like seeing us? >> We love seeing them because I hate that room. >> Oh, okay. Um All right. So just those are the dates and then >> So I guess another joint meeting then like the first or >> you have it he actually I I stand
corrected. You had one for January >> Yeah. But we can we can do that. We can agree on a date closer to >> you are taking the next couple of weeks to go through this, right? Where do you think you fit in coming back to us with
an >> up to Mike? He's he's got he's got to be the one that's comfortable with that. >> I would like to do it before Christmas as well. So, before the holidays, >> you're going to meet with the building principles. I would like to see something
back before we break as a sub our subcommittee. >> We have you guys meeting with principles between the 1st and the 15th, then you guys taking the feedback from the principles back and you guys reviewing it between the 8th and the 22nd of December. >> Can I can I share what my concern is?
>> Yes. >> Is that through these meetings with the principles, we've asked them to identify positions that are critical. I cannot operate my school without these positions. what positions are um
would cause an impact in education if I cut it, but we'd find a way to make it happen. And then the positions that you know what, I can I can live without this position. I would be very uncomfortable sharing that list publicly in in December for a May vote.
>> I'm not interested in that level of detail. I'm interested in you coming back and saying based on plary discussions what this is what we're looking for for a level six positions >> correct right I will never ever looking for the specific that isn't our role
>> um but when did you give them this because I mean it does seem like a long when did you give them this directive >> um so we've done one school we did a trial because um well we also have to line all the calendars I thought it was really important for Juliet and Lisa
Murray to also be involved in every one of these discussions because that they are overseeing general education and student services special education. It did take us a little time to get our calendar synced up. We had our first one last week. It went very well and it was it was it showed the importance of
having all four of us at the table. >> So when would they all of them be done? >> Uh there will be two done next week and two done the week after. >> So we're still on track. >> Okay. So the week of the 15th because we're out on the 19th, aren't we? Are we back? Oh, yeah. Back on the 22nd
and 23. I don't remember. >> 22nd, 23rd. Well, yeah. >> So, in theory, we could meet on the 22nd or the I just or not. I Or we you know because otherwise if we don't we are January 5th. >> Yeah. I'm concerned about myself. I
think there's a lot of work to do. If this was a level service budget, great. No problem. Give us seven $1.7 million. We'll be happy and we'll put a nice presentation together and you guys will see everything. >> This was not then. This is this is going to >> well then need more time. The week of
the 5th would be better. >> January. >> I'm happy whenever it just may we may not have every bit of data that you guys want at any point which means mean that we need to schedule another meeting for two weeks after that to to finish up conf >> and I you know >> let's put it this way I would like to
meet with you. So we either meet as a subcommittee and if you don't feel or whatever I would just meet with you to both together. I would like just like where are we? >> Yeah that's I think that's a good idea. I'm Yeah, I'm I'm good at checking. >> Yeah, >> be honest. >> Yeah, you know. >> Okay, so what can we do that like >> on the 22nd?
>> Monday. >> Are you working? >> No kids graduating that week. I think I'm good. >> And we can zoom it, too, by the way. >> Yeah, we'll zoom in. >> All right. So, we'll do that just as a checkin. What time?
>> I I can follow. >> I am good at any time. Yep. But wide open. >> Want to do 10 a.m.? Yeah. >> Uh, probably. >> Oh, no. You have your administrator would be good. >> Are you sure? I can do it with later. Whatever you All right, I'll set that up. So, that's the 22nd.
>> Then maybe we after that we contact you guys and see sometime in January. Where do we think we're going to be >> because I think we should come together see and then >> he's going to present to the school committee later in January. >> Perfect. >> Yeah, >> that's that's the that's where we've
jumped off and it will be after state of the town. I'm not sure what state of the town B I mean we kind of got it. I mean it's really the revenue side is you know thing in November but um >> the December 22 2026 finance subcommittee meeting yeah not not
>> the the expenditure side's pretty important too >> that's lays the foundation on the >> do we or don't we and you know pretty >> seems pretty clear we don't okay so I'll
follow up with Alec or with all of us in schedule time for January. Sure. Um and I can also kind of you brief you guys after the 22nd just to give you an idea. >> Perfect. >> That's not an issue. I can talk to >> any form of talk. >> We are not a official subcommittee. We
got feedback from the town lawyer. So we're like bendcom liaison teams. >> That's this is what we've been told. So >> and technically >> Well, how many people are in fin? >> Nine. >> Yeah. Yeah. So you're not Yeah. You're not for Yeah. And so, but all three of
us can meet and discuss and it's >> not a form of the findings committee by any stretch, >> you know, >> right? And you wouldn't even be a >> we're not considered like we're not considered we don't have any we don't make official recommendations. I guess just >> that's that was what we because we we
checked with >> Yeah. >> Lisa about requiring minutes is not even not even real requirement but I mean >> well it is for us it's not for us >> not for us
>> yeah no but I think yeah it is for us so we also there's no >> jointly with you >> we'll just do our minutes >> right >> okay so the minutes that you sent from the 17th do you want to >> no the 17th that was my error that actually was just us that was an error I
the 10:30 I don't think I've done But I don't know if you guys >> I wasn't I wasn't I didn't realize that because I I thought I was doing them for both subcommittees, but you was >> 10:30, >> wasn't it? >> No, the seventh
>> No, the 1030th was just us. >> Was just us. >> 10:30 and we had 10:15. >> Yeah. >> Oh, you did you listen to it and take notes? >> Yeah. 10:17 was just this subcommittee, wasn't >> 1117 was just 117. Yeah.
and you know because we just send like informal notes to the whole like right summing up everything we discuss in total. >> Okay. But we don't do minutes. >> Okay. Um All right. So 355. Do you have a motion to adjourn? >> Well, do we have to wait to put those on
the >> Yeah, they're not on the agenda. I mean, you can make a motion if you want to approve them. >> They're not on the agenda, >> but we also have to do the two from the meeting before. >> Yeah. Which I didn't I haven't done. >> Okay. So, can we put up just on our next agenda, we'll do the >> You can make a motion to approve those.
We can do it. >> I will make a motion to approve the November 17th meeting minutes. >> I will second that. Uh, and I'll take a vote. Um, Martha >> in favor. >> Jen in favor. So, we approved the 1117
25 minutes, right? I'll get those up. >> You need to ask for public comment here. >> Um, Let's see if there's anybody else on my screen. So, >> let's just see. Um I will public comment is on there.
So, the only person I see there is Jack Atridge and Will's Notetaker. So, is anyone interested in making a public comment? So, raise your hand. >> See any hand raised? So, I will um I'll adjourn at 356.
It's leaving the meeting.