Good evening. I will call to order the finance committee meeting on June uh June 30th, 2025 at 6:30 p.m. Uh we have one item on the agenda this evening. It's order number 25-1009494. uh communication from Mayor Dumis with a
request for a bond in the amount of $800,000 uh for the repair of the Bigalow school roof. Additionally, in order to authorize an amendment to the lease agreement with Asimmit Valley Collaborative, I'll begin by reading the letter submitted by the mayor.
Honorable President Osor and closed for your approval is an order for a bond for the repair of the Bigalow school roof and an order to authorize a lease amendment. Under the lease agreement, the Asabet Valley Collaborative, AV, is responsible for capital improvements to the
building, but they cannot secure bonding on their own. Uh the lease amendment incorporates additional lease uh payments specifically designed to cover the cost associated with the bond to be issued for the necessary roof repairs. Uh this financial uh agreement ensures
that the expenses related to the roof repair will be fully supported by ABC without additional burden on the city's general fund. Enclosed with uh with this letter is the certificate of vote from the collaborative. Uh the lease amendment and the Bigalow school roof assessment and inspection completed in
March. Uh the lease amendment will be signed after the city council approval of the bond. If you have any questions, please reach out to my office and Cly J. Christian Dumis mayor. With that, I'll bring up Mr. Mayor. Good evening. Good evening, Mr. Chair. Thank you for
having me. So, um, just a little highlight. Obviously, thank you for submitting all the uh the the the inspection of the roof, the agreement, and the information on the bond. I didn't know if you wanted to touch base on anything at all in that. Sure. So, this is obviously an emergency
situation. Uh, obviously wasn't on the capital improvement plan, which is why it wasn't on there. Um, it was brought to our attention that part pieces of the roof are ended up in neighbors yards. So, it's more of we've been put on notice to get this fixed. Um, talking to ASIC collaborative, they want the whole
roof done as opposed to half the roof. Um, so we did our due diligence. So they um met with their board, they signed off on it and so now they they cannot get a um bond because they do not own the property. Correct. So that is why before us they'll go through the whole procurement process internally through
the city and then they'll just be on the hook for the actual payments. Thank you. Thank you. With that I will open up to anyone on the fine screen. Council. Thank you Mr. Chair, Mr. Mayor. Uh just so we understand the Asipet Collaborative um a little bit about them. They're leasing the building. What
do they do in that building? What do they do? So, they are work with other communities to get individuals or students that cannot be in the classroom. They are there. So, Malro actually utilizes them for their services. So, we want to do everything we can to keep them in Malro obviously
cuz our transportation costs will go up. Sure. So, it's being used as a school then? Correct. Okay. Correct. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yep. Council. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh my first question is is have we ever have we as a
body here or your office ever considered um selling them the property and therefore they they could get to pull their own bond. So they are interested in purchasing but there's a lease until 2038. Um I think that's a conversation
for another day. Um the roof is obviously a little bit more important. Um my concern as mayor is if we were to sell it to the as collaborative then they would own it and then they could turn around and sell it and then we will have no control over what that parcel of
land and it's a pretty intricate part to the city with the park right there and with the senior center. So those are conversations that we should have probably at another time. Um I don't feel comfortable um having that conversation tonight but again if you want to have that conversation we can in
my office. My main concern is just getting the roof approved so they can start that project. Two more questions. One is, do you think this might be a bad precedent that the city is pulling a bond for an external nonprofit? I would not think that because we are on
the hook to fix the roof regardless because we own the building. And in the lease agreement, it says that they are responsible for all capital improvement projects. And then lastly, should we pull the bond on their behalf and something happened to the organization, do we have any
insurance on that bond to ensure that should they do that, we're covered as a city? No, we have just like like a private, you know, a PMI if you were taking out a mortgage. Sure. We'll have to pay for the roof whether they're in there or not because the roof needs to be repaired. So whether they we just
fortunate enough that the lease says that they're responsible for capital improvement projects. So, we are fortunate enough that they have to pay for that project while they're there. Um, if they're not there, we would still need to fix the roof anyways.
Very good. Thank you, Council. Doesn't seem like the ideal situation. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Council Joe. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, you know, just kind of reviewing this. Obviously, the AV collaborative provides services to Malber. Do we have any understanding of how many students in our district
utilize their services? I do not have that information but but nonetheless students are are you know actively engaged in the program without a doubt. Without a doubt. Um you know that to me is is is you know extremely important that we try our best to keep that in Malbor. Um also just based on my understanding like you said that we would have to replace the roof kind of
regardless as we do own the building you know regardless of um who the tenant would be. So you know keeping that in mind um you know those are all the questions I have at this moment but thank you Mr. Chair. No, good point, Council F. And I like how you've worked at the increases as well in the agreement to support that uh to support
that bond to re to to to going forward. And um and and I'm satisfied with the lease and we are the landlord to be able to uh have to do that repair on that roof. And through you, Mr. Chair, if I could add one more thing, we do have a seat at the table at the board. Our and
our superintendent does sit on that board as well. So there is input regarding how the asper cloud is being shaped. So um we do have a vote and a voice on that board as well. So good point Mr. Man. Thank you
council. Thank you. I'll go off of the u previous question from council of vital uh related to are there any other situations like this in Maru where this could be asked for? I'm just trying to think do we lease any other buildings where we're looking at a roof very soon?
Not for a long term. I know we rent out Sheroggo Hill. Um, and then obviously the Walker building was Smok, but other than that, I can't think of anything. That's the only one I could think of is the Walker building maybe that uh and as noted from council Irish, our
chairperson, um, we are collecting rent. It's not like they're getting the building for free and there's an increase in the rent and I think it's a great opportunity. I'm in favor of this. We offer tiffs to other businesses. I know this is more not a business, but more a nonprofit. Well, I'm not for sure
if they're a nonprofit, but a an educational collaborative. So, I'm in favor of this. Thank you. Good, good point, councelor. U Mr. President, thank you, Mr. Chair. So, again, councils, I just remind you this is maintaining a city asset. So, this is
something we do want to do. Um the lease is structured so that they'll pay for it. It's paid off over 10 years. That's in the lease agreement. So we we want the building maintained because if they were to leave, we want a good building to m, you know, to take over. So I would encourage the uh finance committee to
support not only the bond but the lease as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. President. Good point. Council Villo. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um on that note, I'm in full support of this and I would move to um approve the bond and then furthermore move to approve the
lease agreement. Okay. So mo motion has been made. I will second that to approve order number 25-1009494. Um that is a bond request in the amount of $800,000 appropriated for the uh roof repair at the Bigalow School. And
additionally uh approving uh the order to authorize the an amendment to the lease agreement with the as to authorize the mayor uh to um amendment to the lease agreement with the Asen Valley Collaborative. Any further discussion?
Seeing none. All in favor? Carries. One, two, three. All opposed. Carries three to one. Thank you, council. Mr. Chair, if I could ask to entertain a suspension just due to the city council schedule. Yep. Because our next meeting is on the 21st.
I was going to Absolutely. I going to ask that. Thank you. The finance committee is okay with having a suspension. Yeah. Point of order. Point of order, Mr. Chair. I don't know where it's coming from. I'm hearing an echo. I I don't know if someone's mic is on, but just for the listening audience, I feel
bad cuz there's bouncing noise going on. Thank you. But back to your original note. Sorry. The finance committee is okay to have a suspension on the July 21st, 2025 meeting. Fine with that. Um with that, I will entertain a motion. Council Pillo. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Move to adjourn. Motion has been made and seconded to adjurnn. All in favor? Carries. 1 2 3 4. We 40 p.m. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good evening. We'll call the personnel committee meeting to order at 6:45 p.m.
Uh we have several items this evening. Um, first we'll start with order number 24-1009327. Communication for Mayor Dumis with the following reappoints to the ZBA. Terms to expire as follows. Ralph Loftton, term to expire February 24th, 2027.
Thomas Golden, term to expire February 24th, 2027. Robert Lavine, term to expire February 24th, 2028. And Thomas Pope, term to expire September 12th, 2026. Um, if all the members up for reappoint want to come up to the well,
um, we'll take everybody all at once. And while everyone's walking up, I will read Mayor Dumis' reappoint letter. Honorable President Oing and counselors, I am submitting for your review and approval the reappointment of Ralph Loftton, Thomas Golden, Robert Lavine, and Thomas Pope to the zoning board of
appeals for a 5-year term to expire on the date listed below. The term calls for a 5-year commitment with the terms that should expire each year. The expiration of each member is following. Ralph Loftton 22422, Thomas Golden 22422, Robert Lavine
22423, and Thomas Pope 91221. I'm asking the council the council for the terms to expire on the following dates. Ralph Loftton, as noted before, 22427, Thomas Golden 22427. Robert Lavine 22428.
Thomas Pope 91226. I'd like to express my gratitude to the zoning board of appeals for their patience during the reappoint process. Interviews will soon be conducted to select the final member needed to complete the board. I look forward to appointing the new members in January 2025 to finalize the ZBA if you have any
questions or concerns. Please do not hesitate to contact me sincerely Jay Christian Dumis mayor. Um good evening everyone. Um as this has happened um we sent this to committee. um the new member of the ZBA has actually been sat and the four members who were here for
reappoint um have not. So, we appreciate you all taking the time to come in um tonight. Um these are reappointments and we don't always send them to committee, but um the zoning board of appeals is uh as a couple of us talked about before is a pretty important uh board. Um I'm
going to quickly read the mission, but I would like folks to kind of have the opportunity at home to learn a little bit about the ZBA. Um, the zoning board of appeals interprets and enforces Malbor zoning code on a case-by case basis. The ZBA hears applications for variances, special permit requests where the zoning code designates the zoning
board as the special permit granting authority and appeals of decision by the building commissioner or any administrative official. Also, the ZBA administers the comprehensive process for affordable housing set forth under the Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 40B. um otherwise stated, you guys take
a lot of the hits um that a lot of other people don't want to take when people have complaints about what they can and cannot do with their property or want permission to do. So, um appreciate you all being here. Um if you would just take a moment to, um we'll go through Tom, we'll start with you and just introduce yourself, how long you've been
on the ZBA, um and why and why you're uh why you're um willing to continue your service um and anything that you really appreciate about the position. Um we'd really appreciate it. Thanks. Community on the uh
top. Just down the bottom. There you go. There we go. Can't tell you how long I've been on the committee. It's been been a while. That's a good sign. Good sign for a long service. Yeah. I want to uh give back to the community. Community has been very helpful and enjoyable for
myself and my family. and using my real estate background uh of almost 32 years. So, okay, that's actually longer than that. Actually, 42 years. Okay, so thank
you. Off. I'm Bob Lavine. I've been on the zoning board of appeals since 2012 or 2013. I'm not sure exactly which one it it was. Um, at that time when I first started, I
was an alternate and I'd like to also um request that once again um the city look at uh putting on an alternate or two. When I started as an alternate, there were five members and me as an alternate. What that allows us to do is
any decision we make has to be made if there's only four people. It has to be a unanimous vote. So sometimes that's can be uncomfortable when there's only four and it has to be unanimous vote. So right now there are no alternates. So I would encourage please to look at uh
finding an alternate in case one of us is sick or out for an extended period of time to have someone to fill in uh for that those meetings. Um I I do it because I find it interesting. Um we I I you mentioned something about taking the
hits. Um I don't really see it like that. Um, our job is to look at cases where people want to do things that violate the zoning laws and to analyze to see if they have the proper hardship or other requirements to give them um
some special consideration. And that makes the city a better place because neighbors buy their property with the understanding that everybody has the same rules. So, I like to start from no when it comes to a variance and
find a good reason why someone should get um some special uh consideration for their property. So, I find it interesting and um have done some training that our previous um administrator had had set up for us and uh I just find it an interesting thing
to contribute. I'd been on a couple other city uh council committees. Well, I guess they're not committees. I was on the the cable commission uh for years and done things like that. So, I just find it interesting to stay involved. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm Ralph Loftton. It's been my pleasure to serve on the ZBA for I think six or seven years. I'm not actually sure. I share Tom's Tom's faulty memory. Um, but as as Bob indicated, our job is really to apply
the zoning ordinance and the the regulations and to take into account various court cases where uh the variances have been granted and perhaps challenged. As Bob said, we uh we try to apply the law as as it's written and we start with
no. And because of that, very few people leave our meetings happy. uh variances ought to be hard to get according to the courts and in our case we try to make it hard and we we try to apply our uh our understanding and and
education about the uh about the laws uniformly and I think so far we've been successful in doing that although we've been sued a couple times uh people are unhappy understandably so um they come with the understanding and the expectation that if their inconvenience
is severe enough they'll be granted relief. But our our view and the court's view is that inconvenience is is not sufficient. And so that that's very frustrating to a lot of people and they often pay money. They hire lawyers before they come to the board. So they
are substantially out of pocket and disappointed at the end and understandably unhappy. But we're I personally am happy to do it. Um I have not lived in Marbor all that many years and this is my first uh serious engagement with city government. Uh it's
been very rewarding. I app I appreciate the opportunity and hope to continue. Okay. Thank you. Uh I'm Tom Golden. I um I have a construction background. Um, I've been on the board, um, as the same as Bob.
2012, 2013, we actually came on the board together. And, um, I like, um, serving the community. Um, and I'd like to say one thing about the board itself. Uh, we've been together
for quite a while and, um, there's never been a raised voice. There's never been a, um, an argument. um if you even if we don't agree um there's a lot of respect for each one of us um amongst the
members and um it's a it's a very good board and um I enjoy serving on it and serving the community. Great. Thank you very much. U with that we'll open up to um we'll start with members of the committee. Council Ducet.
Thank you very much Mr. Chair. Um I'd like to ask a question. I'm not sure who to ask it. So, um, if any of you got any of you folks can volunteer to answer it, I appreciate it. But what do you see as the, uh, biggest changes that you've seen as far as
zoning rules and regulations over the last couple years? Has there been any significant differences in approach or structure? Uh, you know, one of the examples I can think of is the new um, uh, auxiliary housing. is that it coming
into the zoning board often now. So, if someone can speak to that, I appreciate that. We act we actually have not had a case yet u with the new housing u requirement. So, uh but we we have
scheduled a session with the city uh solicitor to give us uh his uh interpretation of the law and how how we might apply it. So, we're not able to answer it on the basis of experience, but uh we look forward to seeing our first case. I'm sure it'll be interesting. As long as I have the
microphone, I would like to echo what Bob uh Lavine said about our staffing. We until very recently we operated with four members and uh so it was there was a great deal of pressure to come to consensus. Uh and luckily we most of the time we were able to do that. We just
recently added a fifth member as you as you know. But uh Bob's appeal for alternates and and additional members. I think we are uh authorized for more than five. I I think six uh plus alternates and so we've been woefully understaffed for quite a long time. Anything that
might be done to relieve that would certainly be appreciated. Thank you. Yeah. So for example, if two of us are unavailable, then a citizen wouldn't be able to have a meeting or if one was scheduled and two of us became
ill. that person would be out and his time might expire of the 100 days that he has to have his case heard. So, it's important to have an alternate. Um, we know that the um gentleman who applied for the fifth position um his
application sat for over a year. Um, so I would certainly appreciate it if you know you could advertise on the Facebook groups or whatever, try to find another candidate who would be an alternate and who could take over if one of us had to retire for some reason too.
Any other members of the council with questions? If not, we'll come. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, not necessarily a question, but just wanted to thank you guys for being here. Thank you for your service and and most importantly to echo the fact that um I've had conversations with with members
of the board just about the fact that having five and having alternates is incredibly important especially right now and what you guys have had to go through over the last year. So I always remain diligent looking for folks who are interested. I know I've sent some mayor uh some names up to the mayor's office. Um not necessarily for the ZBA, although I just want to let you know I
always plug the ZBA as as a place that you know when people come to me saying I want to join a board, a commission or a committee. um I try my best to kind of point them in that direction. So, um just something that I think as counselors we should always be on the lookout for when residents come to us asking about how to get involved. Keeping you guys in mind is is something
that, you know, I can try to do the best I can and send those names forward to the mayor to to hopefully have somebody come down here and get you guys in better shape. So, I appreciate it and I'm not a voting member of the committee, but I have no concerns with your reappoints and I'll look forward to supporting you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Council Pillow. President
Austin. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, Chair Loftton, members of the ZBA, as a guy that tries to attend as many as I can of your meetings, I appreciate the work you guys do. I mean, it it's it's it's a difficult, but you guys follow the what I call the seven rules to pass the
muster, and you guys apply them fairly. And as you say, a lot of them are doing it for convenience, not for hardship. And that's the decision you got to make. So, I do recognize that to the comment on alternate members. So, there's five spots for alternate members. the
challenge. We can't even fill the boards that we have. So, if you guys know anybody that you want on the committee, let us know. I mean, we'll send the names to the mayor. The mayor has to approve them and send them down to the council for approval, but I'm sure this body would be happy to take up names if
they come down, but I have uh no issues with the reappoint. Uh Mr. Chair, thank you, Mr. President. Mr. Chair, Council Warren, and echo the same words of thanks. You don't have an easy job. I used to work in a public agency where you have to say no, but um I've read
some of the decisions and you say it in a nice way. So, thank you for your service and hopefully we can get you more members. Take care. Thank you. Okay, I'll entertain a motion. Motion to approve. Okay, motion has been made and seconded to approve order
number 24-1009327, communication from Mayor Dumis with the following reappointments to the zoning board of appeals. Terms to expire as follows. Ralph Loftton, term to expire February 24th, 2027. Thomas Golden, term to expire February 24th, 2027. Robert Lavine, term to expire February 24th,
2028. And Thomas Pope, term to expire September 12th, 2026. Motion remain seconded. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? It carries 20. Thank you all very much for your time. Uh we appreciate you coming in. It was
very good discussion. Next up is order number 25-1009465, the appointment of Rob McCabe Jr. to the Conservation Commission for a three-year term to expire on April 28th, 2028.
Want to come and join us quickly read the letter from the mayor as well. Honorable President OA and counselors, I am pleased to submit. Yeah. Would also like to invite the chair of the conservation commission and former counselor, Mr. Clancy, to join us
in the well. Um, honorable President Austin and counselors, I am pleased to submit for your approval the appointment of Rob McCabe Jr. to the conservation commission for a three-year term to expire April 28th, 2028 pursuant to master general law 40 section 8C pending city council approval. Mr. McCabe has
had course work in environmental studies and environmental law. He and his wife live next to the cider no conservation land and wants to give back by volunteering his time to the conservation commission and his community. His cover letter and resume are enclosed. I want to thank Robert for his interest in the commission. Thank you in advance for your consideration.
Sincerely, Jay Christian Dumis mayor. Mr. Clancy, I'm not going to uh insult you by reading the charge of the conservation commission from the uh website. So, if you would like to take a couple of minutes, I'm going to hand it over to you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh members of the city council uh I sit
here this evening in uh full support for Rob McCabe for uh to become a member of the mar city marble conservation commission. You know you know we've Dennis Demur has passed away last year and we've been down to six members and
uh sometimes members are absent but u we are looking for new energy and I believe that Rob has it. Of course, I' I've known Rob a long time. Goes way back and uh I know that uh he has expressed an
interest. It was interesting because we were standing in line one time for awake awake and uh we we started talking to each other and he expressed interest and I says, "You're the perfect person for for this position, you know, and I'd be very happy if you would join us." So, he
submitted his application, you know, to the mayor and uh now we're here this evening. You know, it uh hopefully he can be on the commission as long as I've been. It's quite the That's going to be quite the 1968.
A long way to go. A long time ago. Yeah. So, fully fully support his candidacy. Thank you, Mr. Clinty. Um Mr. McCabe. Um, thank you for your uh, willingness to serve. Would you like to take a couple minutes just to introduce yourself to the committee? Sure. Hello everybody. So, as uh, everyone said, Rob
McCabe here. I've been almost a lifelong resident of Malro. I think we moved here the year Ed started in the commission. Uh, but my family's been in this town since 1850. So, we've we've given a lot to Malro. Uh, I've lived here over 50 years myself. Said my cover letter uh,
you know, where I went to school. school. I went to Bowden College and uh it was about giving back to people and focusing on the common good and that was the spirit I take with this and having lived off the conservation trail most of uh my time here in Malbor and when I was
a kid it was all conservation land. Uh I've seen a growth in the city and I think it's good growth but there's also some areas we want to protect uh for the future and for future generations. So looking forward to participate and uh if elected to the committee and appointed uh look to serve as long as that did I
hope. Thank you. We would certainly welcome that. Thank you. Um councelor Ducet. Thank you very much Mr. Chair. Um so thank you for your service. Do appreciate volunteering for this. It's important part to make sure that the
greenness of our community is maintained. Um and I was looking to read you. I think you have an excellent background. So I think it's a great asset to help us with the community. So thank you. Thank you David. Thank you councelor Det Councelor Vital. Thank you Mr. Chair. I've known Mr.
McCabe for a very long time um in many different capacities from being a track trackee at Marorrow High to business partners to uh neighbors and constituents of mine. Um, but one thing that I think that maybe a lot of people don't know is that he also has
volunteered his own time prior to this commission by helping outside of null, which is a series of of of beautiful um trails over between uh Stow Road and Conquered Road. And he's out there on his weed whacker and his and his
lawnmower mowing widening the trails and doing everything he can to make it a little bit easier. So, not only am I in support of Mr. McCabe's nomination to the conservation corps, but my three golden retrievers told me specifically that they wanted to be mentioned and
that they give their their uh support as well. Be great to have them. Thank you, councelor V. Councelor Orm. As the council knows, I already spoke about Rob at the city council meeting. I've known Rob for many years and very friendly
with him. So, I'll disclose that. And um what a great person you will be for the commission. Thank you. Thank you, Mark. Mr. President, thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Clancy, if you had a little more than 57 years of experience on the conservation commission, I think I'd
take your recommendation seriously, but no, but on all Rob, welcome them. Hopefully, it works out well. Mr. Clansancy, thank you for uh the support as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. President. Anyone else? With that, I will entertain a motion. Motion to approve. A motion has been made and
seconded to approve order number 25-1009465, the appointment of Rob McCabe Jr. to the Conservation Commission for a three-year term set to expire on April 28th, 2028. Any further discussion? Could Mr. Chairman, Mr. Clint, you think that you
could possibly ask for a suspension of the rules to act on it at the next meeting? Absolutely. Sure. You got it. Okay. summer schedule will be a little All those in favor all those opposed it
carries two. Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Lindsy. Next up, we have order number 25-1009491, the appointment of Peter B. Welsh to the historical commission for a three-year
term set to expire on June 19th, 2028. While Mr. Welsh joins us, we will quickly read the letter from the mayor. Dear Council President, AI, and counselors, I am pleased to submit for your approval the appointment of Peter Welch to the historical commission in accordance with Mass General Law, Chapter 40, Section
8D. This appointment is for a three-year term set to expire on June 19th, 2028. Mr. Welsh has been a resident of Malber since 2023 and has previously lived in cities including New York, Boston, Charles Town, and Washington DC. In each community, he has maintained a strong
interest in local history. In his expression of interest to join the historical commission, he noted Malber has done a fine job repositioning itself while celebrating our proud past. That is why I would like to be a volunteer with the historical commission. I'd like to thank Peter for his appreciation of Malber's rich history and his
willingness to contribute to its preservation through service on the historical commission. Please do not hesitate to contact me or my office with any questions. Sincerely, Jay Christian Dumis, Mayor. Hi, Mr. Welsh. How are you? Um it's the just down the bottom. Um
yeah, there we go. Okay. Can you hear me? Yep. That's great. Okay. Yeah. Uh we're um my wife and I moved here, as you already said, in end of March of 23. Uh I am an active volunteer on a lot of fronts. I'm retired now, but I um have
been for the last four years aiteration coach at an elementary school in Framingham teaching reading comprehension. I am um I do volunteer work for audio journal as as a um voiceovers and that's a station for the blind or
seriously vision impaired. I do a lot of volunteer work at WIC and radio 98.5 and I do voiceovers and volunteer work with them. I am active member of my church. I do Sunday services at 11:00 a.m. every week and I am a singer as well. So I I'm
a member of the Boston Sangerfest men's course and I'm a member of the Sbury Shabby Arts. So I am a bit busy guy and that's you know got to stay busy otherwise you know you're going to lose it. So um
I guess um I've changed careers you know several times in life. I was an active um employee of Amtrak when it was brand new and um I had probably seven different positions of increasing responsibility
either in the field or for corporate uh and the nationwide responsibility and I I loved loved it but go through administrative changes and I could see the future and I just said I'm 45 and I think if I'm going to reinvent myself I
should do it and um so I did and believe it or or not. Even though I was a railroader, I had a lot of transferable skills to senior living. And so I entered senior living when we moved back here from Bethesda, Maryland in 1997.
And I started with a U nationwide senior living company, Sunrise. And I stayed with them for 2 years. Then I got a big offer with a different company to run a larger community in Newton, Newton Welsley line. Stayed with them for two
years. that really what I wanted to do with the campus. And so I got it through a series of acquaintances. I got an offer to manage a large continuing care retirement community in Lo. And I did that for 13 years and I loved it. But then I retired when I was 65. And then
they rehired me to run an even larger community down out in North Brford, Connecticut. And I did that for all of 2016. Then I said, you know, I've done 24/7 my whole career and so it's time for change. And so at that point I
became a substitute teacher in Sudbury. And so I did middle school for basically January 17 through the end of um uh 19 and then CO was starting and then we're going to do substitute remotely and I didn't want to do that. So that's when I
started the literacy program. So that's uh that's me. You know I have three daughters. Um, they're all grown and uh they I'm going to be a grandfather in October. So, congratulations. Any questions? That's it's uh quite the
career and quite the resume. Thank you for sharing it with us. Um we'll open it up to uh any members of the committee council you set. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Peter, it's a pleasure to see you here, by the way. Um I've gotten to know Peter. He lives in my ward um adjacent to Hagar Pond. So, he's uh
learned how things work in the system as far as the dam at Hagar Pond. So, um I appreciate you taking into historical commission considering the historical significance of many things in our community. So well I've also been attending traffic committee meetings too
and for H Street traffic signals and not not signals but uh speed limit signs and stuff like that. So we like to be a part of wherever you live. So great. Thank you Peter. Okay, council. Thank you.
Well we've had two teachers up here now. We had Ed Clansancy just prior to you. I honor you. It's a tough job and for you to go do that is tremendous. But the one item and by the way I'm going to be a grandfather for my first time in September. So congratulations to you in
October. Um I like the statement you made in your strong interest uh request. Uh you noted Marra has done a fine job in position fine job repositioning itself while celebrating our proud pass. That is why I would like to be a volunteer with the historical
commission. Perfect statement. I I know it comes from the heart. Thank you for volunteering. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Councelor Fchilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Walsh. I just wanted to take a moment. You had stole my thunder. I saw you at traffic commission just last week, and
so I appreciate how you've been active in the community, and um just your willingness to advocate for your neighborhood. So, I have no doubt that you'll bring that same passion and energy to the historical commission. Um although I'm not a voting member of the personnel committee, you have my full support when it comes before the council. So, thank you very much, Mr.
Chair. Thank you, Councelor Fillo. Councelor Ducet. Motion to approve. A motion has been made and seconded to approve order number 25-1009491, the appointment of Peter B. Welsh to the historical commission for a three-year term set to expire on June 19th, 2028.
Is there any additional discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Opposed? It carries two to zero. Thank you, Mr. W. And our last item this evening
is order number 25-1009492, the appointment of Deborah Jakabowski Russ to the library board of trustees for a three-year term set to expire on February 1st, 2028. Thanks. Before I read the letter and butcher the
name again, how close? Jackabowski. Okay. All right. Every once in a while, dear council president Austin and counselors, I am priest pleased to submit for your approval the appointment of Deborah Jakabowski Russ as a library
trustee in accordance with city charter division 1 section 60. This position is a three-year term to maintain the staggered schedule of appointments. This term will expire on February 1st, 2028. Mrs. Russ has been actively involved with the Malbor Public Library Foundation, helping to raise funds in support of the library. She's also begun
attending trustee meetings to gain a deeper understanding of the role and responsibilities of a trustee. I'd like to thank Deborah for her ongoing commitment to the Malbor Public Library Foundation and her continued support of the library. Um we'll echo I think we'll all echo um the mayor's comments here.
Um and we're all pretty big supporters of the library. So, thank you for what you've already done um and for your willingness to um kind of continue on that. Do you want to give us a little bit of background? Sure. You want to put your mic on? Um I I am not a teacher but I grew up
with uh my parents were both teachers. So they uh instilled a love of the library very early for um for my brother and I and uh um my fondest memories as a kid were going to the library and that was one of the first things when we moved to the town um to Marboro um about 20 years ago was I got my library card
because that's what you do. um and uh still an avid user of the library um now and so um I've been on the foundation um for about 3 years now helping to raise funds. Um our library is beautiful now. Um I hope everybody who hasn't used it
goes there, use the library and so I I um want to continue that with having a little bit more um kind of say in the policies of the library. Um and that's why I reached out expressing my interest in joining the trustees. Um so I've been attending meetings for about the last year and a half in my role as
the found um foundation um representative presenting what the foundation is doing to the trustees and I'd like to continue you know to serve um by joining the actual trustees as well. Oh, and before I open it up, I would like to just especially, we talked about it a little bit during budget time, but thank the foundation and the
trustees kind of for their advocacy to open up the library on Sundays, um, and the support of the administration and the council for doing it cuz that's going to be it's going to be awesome. It really is. You know, the the people who really, you know, want to use the library the most um, will have a little bit more access in the time that they
can actually do it. So, really appreciate the leadership there. Great. I'll open up to members of the committee. Council Gusette. Thank you very much, Mr. Sure. Um, so thank you for your service and for your dedication for the library. Um, and
uh, how long have you been in the city again once you move in? Over 20 years. I think we're 21 this year. So, yeah. And how long have you been actively involved with the library now? Um well I was on the friends before the like friends disbanded when we moved to
the Walker building and then um I've been once you know kind of the foundation reached out and wanted an additional person um that's been about 3 years um but I've you know was a friend at the library before um friend of library now um so yeah okay well thank
you thank you for your dedication and service help the library appreciate it thank you councel det any further comments with Korum. Just another thank you and I was noticing you're part of the garden club as well. So you've done a lot in the city. Thank you for your efforts with the library and the garden
club. Thanks. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Councelor Ducet. Motion to approve. A motion's been made and seconded to approve order number 25-1009492, the appointment of Deborah Jacabowski Rouse to the library board of trustees for a three-year term set to expire on
February 1st, 2028. Uh any further discussion? All those in favor? All those opposed? It carries 20 to zero. Congratulations. Thanks. Motion to adjurnn. A motion made second to adjurnn. All those in favor? Two.
None opposed. We are adjourned at 7:17. team. affairs committee meeting to order. So, we'll just keep right on going through our list. Uh we have two items on our agenda. It is June 30th. It is now 718,
so we're a little behind. Um, first order is 251009397B, the special permit application from 27 Curtis Avenue LLC for the proposed renovation and reconstruction of a pre-existing non-conforming car wash
located at 27 Curtis Avenue. I believe Mr. Gylosis is here. if you want to come up to the well so that you are there if you want to open up with any comments. Otherwise, we'll just get right down to
business. All right. Um we did receive comments from the uh department heads for this order and then there were some additional uh comments that were sent
today at my request. Um so from the Marbor fire department assistant fire chief Emanuelson Marorrow Police Department Chief Georgie the board of health director Dun Woody had no issues. Priscilla Ryder, conservation
sustainability officer, had commented that she had no issues, but that during site plan, they will look in more detail at landscaping plan and review drainage design to get best improvement feasible. From building commissioner Ty as the
acting planner, I think having the same use in close proximity to the same use is not good planning. Additionally, it's a difficult site to perform a left turn maneuver onto Route 20. And then additionally today, um, as I was
reviewing this over the weekend, Mr. Gilus was sent the, um, same special permit that was submitted for washville car wash. I was comparing them and we had not gotten comments from, um, Mr.
Depersio, the city engineer. So, I asked whether some of the things that were in the original um special permit for washville should be included. His comments were that
the storm water and water sewer condition should be added using the same language as was in the proposed washville decision. And then I have the following comments. There are still issues to be addressed during the detailed review by the site plan review committee. A traffic study will be
required and there is insufficient information to confirm that traffic can be adequately maintained on site for the proposed number of wash bays. The proposed site layout for this site will also impact access and parking at the 31 Curtis Avenue building. So that will
need to be worked out. Finally, there will be minor revisions and additions requiring regarding utilities, drainage, site details, etc. And then U. Priscilla Ryder had commented back that the
landscaping needed to have the same language that was in the washville. And I think everybody has copies of that language that I can read as we go through this. Um, otherwise if you don't have any questions or comments per se,
I'm going to just start going through the decision. Yes. [Music] Um, no. I think his comment was it that it
was still an issue. Uh, I believe that was the Well, that was Commissioner Twe's comment. Um, did I read it for the wrong one?
Um, Madam Chair, I think there Madam Chair, but he did have his original um I don't have my I just went through the comments. So, do you have the full
packet that includes his comments? Thank you. Um I think madam chair the comment is there. I think the comment was for the other car wash because he's not turning on to route 20 at all. I think
the bill you know the commissioner just got the two confused. I'd rather get clarification from him to confirm that. And the other piece of that that was confusing um didn't realize it wasn't on. Um I think the other piece that was confusing Thank
you. Um is that it says that the proposed wash and and the site can't support the number of bays requested. Um, and we are proposing the exact same number of bays. And that was the comment from the
engineer. I know you went to uh I don't know if you need to go back to site plan. You went through preliminary site plan. So those kinds of discussions will happen once the special permit is approved and the design of the building, the layout of the building, all of that
is site plan's perview. We don't really control any of that. So I think his concern is just that is there enough with the way you're changing the design of the building and the layout of the building enough for traffic. Uh
Commissioner Twe may be confused, but he may also be talking literally about making not the left turn from your site onto Curtis, but then from Curtis onto 20. And I don't know if that's a legitimate concern. And I guess one of the things that might be revealed with
the traffic study that I think Mr. Deersio brought up. Um, so I don't know if those answer your questions without him being here to clarify. That is what he wrote. So if it was a mistake and he was confusing the sites, then um
I guess we can find out if that is a concern. But the rest of it um the concerns of the uh city engineer for the layout would be one of the things that will happen when you go to site plan and can be discussed
by the committee if there are any concerns. Okay. Okay. So we have the draft decision of the special permit. It's um pretty standard in the findings of facts. The applicant 27 Curtis Avenue
LLC's a Massachusetts limited liability company. It's applicant is the current owner of the property located at 27 Curtis Avenue. The applicant proposes a car wash at the site replacing an existing car wash of 50 plus years as
shown on the plans referenced in paragraph 5. This use consists of a building accessory parking, improved dry drive aisles and drainage systems and landscaped areas. The applicant filed with the city clerk an application for
the use. In connection with the application, the applicant submitted a certified list of a butter's filing fees and a site plan. Um, sorry, I've got my pages turned backwards here. The applicant was
certified as complete by the building commissioner of the city of Marbo acting on behalf of the city planner. The site's located in the business zoning district. It has an area of 14,218 ft plus or minus and pursuant to the rules and
regulations of the city council for the city of Malber and applicable statues, the city council established a date for the public hearing. That public hearing was held on Monday, April 28th, 2025. The public hearing was held in the Marble City Hall. The
hearing was comprised of two separate public meetings April 28th and then June 9th and subsequently closed on June 9th, 2025. The applicant presented testimony at the public hearing detailing the use, describing its improvements regarding
but not limited to the municipal services safety curb appeal for the neighborhood fuel efficiency, noise mitigation, and traffic flow. And at the public hearing, no residents spoke in opposition to the continuation of the existing use. Representatives and owners
of adjacent properties asked highle questions and one individual spoke in favor. So based on the above the city council makes the following findings and facts. The applicant has complied with all the rules and regulations promulgated by the Marbor city council.
City council finds that the proposed use of the site is in appropriate use and in harmony with the general purpose and intent of the zoning ordinance of the city of Malber. The city council, pursuant to its authority under Massachusetts General Laws chapter 48, and the zoning
ordinance of the city of Marble, hereby grants the applicant a special permit for a car wash at 27 Curtis Avenue as shown on the plans, excuse me, subject to the following conditions, which shall be binding on the applicant. Number one, construction in accordance
with applicable laws. Construction of all structures on the site is to be in accordance with all applicable building codes. and zoning regulations in effect in the city of Marble in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and shall be built according to the plans as may be amended during site plan review.
Number two, site plan review. The issuance of the special permit is further subject to detailed site plan review by the site plan review committee in accordance with the city of Marble site plan review ordinance prior to the issuance of the building permit. any additional changes, alterations,
modifications or amendments as required during the process of site plan review. Shall be further conditions attached to the building permit and no final occupancy permit shall be issued until the applicant has complied with all conditions provided, however, that subsequent to the issuance of this
special permit and site plan approval. The site plan review committee may authorize the phasing of site and building work depending upon weather conditions and other factors. Subsequent site plan review shall be consistent with the conditions of this special permit and the plan submitted, reviewed,
and approved by the city council as a special permit granting authority. Number three, modifications of plans. Notwithstanding conditions one and two above, the city council or the site plan review committee may approve engineering changes to the plan so long as said
changes do not change the use as approved herein. Number four, incorporation of submissions. All plans, photo renderings, site evaluations, briefs, and other documentation provided by the applicant as part of the application and as amended or revised
during the application hearing process before the city council and/or the city council servant affairs committee are here and incorporated into and become a part of this special permit and become conditions and requirements of the same unless otherwise altered by the city
council. Number five, hours. The hours of operation of the use at the site shall remain the same. The current car wash is open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Number six, noise. The applicant shall comply with the city's noise
ordinance and shall comply with all state and federal regulations. Number seven, lighting. Exterior lighting at the site shall be downward-facing and shielded to minimize impacts on neighboring properties and comply with applicable laws. and number eight to compliance with applicable
laws. The applicant agrees to comply with all municipal, state, federal rules, regulations, and ordinances as they may apply to the construction, maintenance, and operation of the use. And number nine is our recording of the decision.
and then I will read the additional uh conditions that would be added by this body. According to the suggestion from city engineer Deersio and Miss Ryder um storm water and erosion control
management, the applicant shall ensure that its site superintendent during construction of the project is competent in storm water and erosion control management. This individual's credential shall be acceptable to the engineering division of the city's department of public works and the city's conservation
commission. This individual shall be responsible for checking the site before, during, and after storm events, including weekends, and evenings when storms are predicted. This individual shall ensure that no untreated storm water leaves the site consistent with the states and the city's storm water
regulations. This individual shall ensure compliance with the approved sequence of construction plan and the approved erosion control plan. The applicant shall grant this individual complete authority of the site as it relates to storm water and erosion controls and additionally water and
sewer connections. The applicant shall install and maintain a water reclamation and recycling system to be approved during a sip fun review and obtain and maintain a sewer discharge permit from the department of public works. And the final addition would be
landscaping. A detailed landscaping plan for the site shall be reviewed and further conditioned during the site plan review process. The landscaping plan shall be more robust than is required by the zoning ordinance and shall improve aesthetics along Curtis Avenue to
provide a buffer to adjacent properties, provide shade, canopy, and use native plants to improve habitat. The applicant, its successors, and/or sign shall maintain the landscaping at the site for the duration of the use.
So, does anybody have questions or concerns with the addition of those three conditions to the special permit? Councelor Ducet. Yep. Madam Chair, I don't have any issues with the additional conditions and uh if anyone
doesn't have any issues, I'm willing to approve as amended. And councelor just has moved to approve the special permit as the draft submitted with the three additional conditions added in as the solicitor
would decide where to place them. Is there discussion on the motion? Discussion on comments. Councelor Fillo. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for being here. Just one quick question regarding existing signage on the property. um what kind of
signage do you guys have on the location and then what what where what is the signing going to look like after kind of this development is completed? Great question. Uh and the final sign design hasn't been uh hasn't been finalized yet um because we're not even sure that
we'll be allowed to do this. Uh that being said, there is an existing sign on a metal post that's only about 10 ft off the street. Um, we would keep something like that. Um, obviously we'd go through the review process of that the design of
that sign and then the only additional signage would just be on the building itself. Gotcha. Just say car wash. Sure. Thank you. No, I appreciate it. That's my only question, Madam Chair. Thank you. And and I know the comment from the building commissioner for the other item on our agenda was about the sign. So, it
is possible if we want to add a another condition that we could use one that I found in other special permits where signage at the site shall comply with the city's sign ordinance. It's a simple sentence. I believe they have to do that anyway
because one of the conditions that's that they will follow the rules and regulations, but this just clarifies it. So, council fill Thank you, Madam Chair. I had a similar understanding that it' be covered in the rules and regulations, but I'd be happy to include that one line about signage like you said if be
okay with that additional language. Is that all right? Um, any further questions, concerns, councelor? So, um, am I missing it? I don't see where it says it references the plans that were
submitted. Do did I am I overlooking it? could normally have a the plans that was they're going to build to were approving the plans that was submitted to us and I and I don't see it here. I don't know if it specifically says
what the plans are, but we all got a copy of the plans that were submitted. Um, we can reference them as what they are called proposed floor plan 27 Curtis Avenue from RAV and Associates dated
12125 if you want them specifically. Well, all um, Madam Chair, all our previous special permits list the plans that we're approving so that we know what the what we actually approve because if we just say they're going to go build something, it doesn't work so good. It's got to have the plans with a
date on them so that we know what they're building because if they change it, we need to know about it because that's what the building department's going to go inspect, too. Right. And I I'm guessing that our lack of having it would be corrected by the solicitor to make sure that the plans are
specifically referenced, but I can make sure that they are in here very clearly. Um I believe it says it's further detail. No, it said that the plans were submitted
in connection with the application the applicant submitted. Nope, that's a list of a butters a site plan entitled 27 Curtis Avenue. site plan by spru engineering and structural plans by AGM group. It's listed in number five of the findings of facts.
Do you want it specifically mentioned in the I don't think that's specific enough, but I will let the solicitor determine that because we need to make sure we need to make sure they are building to a set of approved plans. Right. And at
this point I have the sense that those plans will be modified by site plan when it goes back to them um with the concerns from Mr. Depersio. But I can certainly make sure that it's noted that the issuance uh or that the modification
of the plans are specified as to the plans that we have. Thank you. Thank you for pointing that out. Any other questions or concerns? All right. There is a motion to approve the decision on the special permit as
amended. All those in favor? 1 2 3 4 five. So this will there are no opposed because that's our five members. Um this will get reported
out at our July 21st meeting where we only meet twice. We only meet once July, once in August. At that meeting, I'll ask to have the rule suspended so that this can be referred to the solicitor. It would be back on our August agenda
for the vote of the full committee. Um, we have until September 9th council meeting to vote on this. Hopefully we don't need to go to that length, but um this was step one um
getting it to the solicitor in proper form him adding anything else and then if this gets approved by the full body you will go back to site plan to work through issues and other items that they have. Okay. Okay. Appreciate it. All
right. Thank you very much. Thank you. And you're certainly welcome to come to the meeting on the 21st, but you don't have to. It'll just be a refer to the solicitor be the August meeting. All right. Thank you.
All right. The second item on our agenda is order number 2519434, a special permit application from attorney Gemma Cashman on behalf of Royal 401 Elm Street LLC for the purpose
of operating an approximate 203,500 ft warehousing and distribution facility to be located at 415 Elm Street. Uh, attorney Cashman is not here. I'm here. You've taken the reign. Oh, there she
is. All right. Certainly, if you want to reintroduce yourself, please for the record. David use the microphone. And with us is uh Scott Faber from Lincoln who's going to be building the
site. John Cusk who designed and developed the site bland from Bowler, Scott Thornton from who's our traffic engineer from Vaness. Uh now you heard this is a 203,500 ft uh facility.
And to be frank, we spent three and a half almost four months going through site plan review and conservation to make sure that everything was covered on this project because of its size. And we addressed everything through from uh multiple issues including traffic,
noise, lighting, wetlands, and permitting in general. And you'll hear from the different uh experts today on the uh traffic and the design of the site and lighting and wetlands. Uh
Lincoln, we we basically have a a permit, a site plan approval and permit. We could build a permit, a building permit tomorrow. What's happened, however, is the market's changed and it's going to be difficult to attract
tenants uh of just the caliber that's allowed under your LII today. As you know, when your L limited industrial district was created, it put limitations on warehousing uses and manufacturing in
that area to include only footwear, precision instruments, tool and die, dental, medical, optical equipment, electrical or electrical instruments, hobby vehicles, storage, biomed or biotech products.
that leaves out a lot of uh just retail companies that would want to store their products there and ship them to their facilities. Uh the the reason we're here is basically we
need some relief on who we can market to to fill the project because what we don't want to do is create an empty building. Uh we don't even want to start design unless we really know I mean not design but construction before we have a tenant. uh and as soon as if we have a
wider audience to reach, it's going to be a lot easier uh for us to move forward and to start generating the tax revenue that would be generated from this type of facility, which is 200,000 square foot uh operation, which would probably generate
about a half a million a year. All right. through the guidance of the site plan review and the building inspector when they gave us the approval, we put they put general u conditions on it. Uh
and those basically were that um we could continue we want to expand the wearing warehousing use uh for our tenants. It would be limited only to the tenants storage and warehousing. There'd be no Amazon or high cube fulfillment
center. So you're not going to get the traffic that you would see at a larger operation. Uh there'd be no warehousing of hazardous substance or solid waste at the site. And the key one of the key things was that we would not exceed the
traffic estimates that our engineers said stated in their decision in their memos and that were approved under condition seven of the site plan approval. So, we're willing to take that gamble and if we exceed them, we have to change
things. Uh, it's I think it's a reasonable request by a proven landlord. And in a second, I'll have Scott talk a little bit about the landlord who we know cuz they've got had other buildings in the town in the city. They've built other buildings in the city. They have 1000 Nickersonson which they did a
beautiful job on. Um, and they they need to they need this relief in order to do it do it properly and to build it right and get it going. Uh, with that, I'd turn it over to Scott, I
guess, to tell you a little bit about uh, Lincoln at this point. You can go there if you want, Scott. Hello. Can you hear me? Yeah. All right. Thank you for having me. I'm actually really just subbing in here for Dante Angeluchcci who's been really close to
this project. He's our head of development. I But I have been at Lincoln since 2007. And I think it's been since I've been at Lincoln, we have been an investor and um owner in the city of Marorrow that entire time, which I think we can't say
that for many of the communities that are around the greater Boston area. So, we're very pleased with that and we're and we've been very happy with the business that we've been able to do here in the city and always appreciate all of the support we have from from the city here in the business community that's in this great city. So, um as as Bill
mentioned a couple of those projects, most recent one is a Thousand Nickerson uh that was built as a more GMP life science type facility with the ability to go also advanced manufacturing for for other tenants. we found that those folks are a little bit more focused on
128 at the moment. Um, and then the life science market is obviously having a ton of disruptions and and really what we found is um by being kind of uh in that in that box is that um a thousand Nickerson although it's a great product
it was overbuilt to a to a certain extent to match those tenant needs. Um so the premium that we need to obtain in order to lease that building is going to be different than the type of product we have here. Um and that's where the zoning relief is is required. Um not
only just for for the wide audience of the tenants but also the financing capabilities here. Um you know folks folks are when they're looking to invest in communities they want that they want to make sure there is some flexibility uh in in the type of uses that can go
there. So the the only the uses that Bill has listed off I think worked when life science was going um gang busters for a period of time there but right now it's it's fairly difficult to to kind of be limited just to those uses for this. So we're very much committed to thousand
Nickerson. We did just get a lease done there for 40 about 44,000 ft but and we're and we're continuing to kind of go after more of the kind of advanced tech kind of tents for the remaining of that remaining space. Um, but you know, I
think what we're looking at here is some of the demand we're seeing for that building would fit this demand and we're not able to meet it at the thousand tech um um or thousand Nickerson, I'm sorry, I keep saying thousand tech um building. Um we also uh had owned 34 St. Martin,
Brigham Business Park, and uh 50 D'Angelo here. All of them are were fantastic buildings and and saw a lot of different of the these types of tenants that we'd be looking at to have at these facilities as well. Um Lincoln's been in business since the mid60s. Uh we've been
around in the in the in the greater Boston area since the mid80s and um we manage and lease about 24 million square ft. Only about 10% of that we're we're ownership in and developers. So we do have a great um uh depth of of uh of
experience in the management of of all product types in this area. So this is again kind of educated us and and brought us to this point where we are at in this project. I would say we're fully financed and approved to get started on this um right when we have the the
correct zoning for us to be able to do that. Thank you Scott. John Cusk from uh as engineer will go through the whole site plan now. Good evening. Uh for the record, John
Cusk. I'm a principal uh professional engineer with Bowler Engineering. Um, as Bill had mentioned, we've we've been at this for a while. So, we've worked closely with staff before making any kind of a filing. And kind of through that process, we've made some changes to
the um the site plan that were incorporated at the um at the filing. Uh at that point, we went through hearings with both um site plan review committee and conservation commission. uh very very thorough uh hearings at which point a lot of um changes had been made and
detail they added to the plans and as you heard we'd receive uh approvals from uh both of those uh boards and commissions. So with that I'm not going to get into too much of the technical uh data unless you'd like me to do so. So I'll just keep this at a very high level and just run through the the property
location and just some of the highlights of it. So the property is located at 401 Elm Street. Uh you can see from looking at the map just from an orientation it is behind the existing building off of off of Elm Street. To the um
Thank you. Uh to the west you'll see that is Interstate 495. Uh right right there. Uh looking to the north you have uh North Branch Brook associated wetlands. Uh looking to the east, you've got some more wetlands and really to the
south as you've got some industrial uh properties and just mixed juice there. Uh there are some wetlands on site. We worked closely with the conservation commission as I had mentioned um at which point we um have stayed out of all of the um we don't have any direct
impact to wetlands. Uh we just are working within the buffers. So, from a proposed site plan standpoint, the plan is 203,500 square ft. Uh, the thought was to keep it centrally located on the property. Uh, through some of our initial
conversations with the uh with the city, the building was actually a little bit bigger and pushed back. Uh, one of the comments from staff was they did want us to move that back in a southerntherly direction into the site. uh which we had done and they wanted us to minimize uh as much impact as possible to keep the
mature vegetation that is around the perimeter. So based on that, you'll notice we're surrounded by a retaining wall, which you probably can't see that level of detail, but that was a big part of what we wanted to do was to go through the expense of adding retaining wall rather than grading out the site and and taking down a lot of those
trees. Um there are about 185 parking stalls. They're all located to the front of the site. Uh you'll see the loading bays in the dark color right up against the building. Uh about 35 and then trailer stalls on the opposite side of that. Uh based on the changes that we
made early on with um staff and moving the building back, uh we've really expanded the um uh the buffers that we had and um saved a lot of those uh mature trees. So right now by doing that we're at
least 650 ft to the closest uh residence um house on Padulla which is on the northwest and about 600 ft on the um the northeast on uh right drive. So a little over two football fields away. And again
we've put a retaining wall up there so we could keep all of the trees in between that um that area. We've also kept uh quite a large distance from the wetlands and resource areas on site which has uh helped to get the conservation commission approval. We're
over 50 ft from any structure uh from a wetland and about 180 from the from the brook. So again, all of that was reviewed uh in detail with the conservation commission. Uh from a grading standpoint, the um the site, if you're familiar with it, has a
lot of uh topo on the um on the site. One of the first things that we looked at was we wanted to make sure that we balanced the the earthwork. It's really good practice to not bring in a lot of material or haul haul off a lot of material. So, we worked closely to be able to do that. And we do have a
balanced site as uh as designed. Um dealing with um the staff, there were some concerns about how the grading operations would would work on site. Apparently, there was another project in the city that didn't things did not go so well. Um so based on that we worked
very closely with the comments that they had had and we really did two things uh that are a bit out of the out of the ordinary. Um number one we brought in um our geotechnical consultant early on. So a company by the name of Samborehead and Associates which is a very uh reputable
geotechnical firm. We had them drill in um a significant amount of borings and test pits on site and worked very closely with Tomzio just to make sure he was comfortable with the materials, groundwater, was there ledge, how was everything going to work in that regard.
Uh and we also had them them design uh preliminary plans for that wall that I had mentioned earlier. Again, it was very important for us to keep that barrier up to have uh the buffer protected. So we worked with them to have frankly really construction level
detailing during the entitlement process. Um we also engaged uh Arco as a general contractor national general contractor that um really specializes in this kind of work. We wanted to bring them in early on. So, you know, many
times an engineer will draw up a plan, a contractor will get it and they'll say, "I want to do this or I want to do that." And just the construction might not go the way um the intent was during the entitlement process. We did not want that to happen here. So, we did bring in Arco early on. So, they helped us to
develop the plans to make sure that everything would be constructed the way that it actually was designed. And that process went very very uh well through that. They worked very closely with the city staff, Priscilla and Tom and conservation commission and developed a
very detailed phasing plan to talk about how they were going to uh develop the site and grade it out uh in an erosion control plan which is a big part of the conservation commission uh process. Storm water um fully comply and exceed
the storm water management requirements of the city uh and the state. Uh we meet all 10 standards. Um, not to get too technical, but we comply with or we utilize the Cornell and Noah rainfall data, which is essentially a more conservative. So, it means some of our storm water basins are a little bit
oversized than they might uh otherwise need to be. Uh, there's basins on the back of the site, basins on the front of the site, um, and fully comply with all state and local standards. And then um actually
the landscape plan real quick. Back the other way on the front. Apologies. So on the landscaping plan, we worked very closely with uh Priscilla on that. Again, the first and foremost, our biggest part that we wanted to do was we
wanted to save the um preserve the the wooded buffer, which we have done through the construction of the walls right along the perimeter. Uh beyond that, again, our building's probably about 1,000 ft back from Elm Street. It isn't something you're going to see from the road. It's
behind that other existing building that's there. Um that said, Priscilla was very interested in us exceeding the landscape ordinances that that are in place currently and being discussed for future um modifications. So we went
through a significant landscape plan. You'll see a whole bunch of trees along the perimeter and internal to the site uh which is well in excess of what would be required under the code. Um that said, it was something that was requested during the process and we agreed to do. So that is as part of the
um part of the plan. So with that again I think based on the collaboration uh early on prior to filing and then some of the work through the process with the site plan review committee and conservation and it's a little unusual like we have those done now. I think the plan's a very very good
plan. It frankly has a little bit more detail on it than we typically would have at this point in time. Um and I think everything has been addressed on that technical side of things. So, with that, I could turn it over to Scott to talk traffic and then I can get back
into any additional detail that you might want to hear about the site plan if the presentation was um didn't address everything you might be interested in. Excuse me. Good evening. For the record, Scott
Thornton with Vaness Associates, uh, registered professional engineer and a partner and principal at our company. Uh, we prepared several traffic related documents for this project, including an initial tra transportation impact
assessment. Um really just a standard traffic study looking at existing conditions uh project trip generation u site distance speeds crash data um and
uh that document was uh submitted and I think it's got a date of June or July of 2024. Uh we looked at three intersections. The uh the site driveway intersection with Elm Street and then intersections on either side. Uh so we
looked at the Winter Street intersection to the east and the uh Felton Felton Street and Lock Drive intersection with Elm Street to the west. Um in general what we found is that uh you know based
on the traffic counts that we had done and the estimated uh trip generation for the project again using a warehouse category which is what's what's proposed in this case. Uh we found that we expect
the project to generate about 35 trips in the morning peak hour and 37 trips in the evening peak hour with um uh over a daily basis 24 hours. We would expect those numbers to go up to 360 trips. So 180 vehicles in and 180 vehicles out
over the course of the day. um we add that project traffic into the future conditions and we wind up with um minimal effects at the signalized intersection of Felton and Lock and Elm
Street. Uh it's level of service D in the future with us or without us. uh traffic increases or or delay increases at that intersection range between8 and 1.7 seconds on an overall basis. Uh so
there's no congestion out there now. The project will not cause any congestion. Following that traffic study and review by the city, we um uh the city engineers office provided some comments uh looking
for some additional information on the uh proposed use. um in which case we issued a a letter dated December 3rd reiterating the warehouse use indicating you know confirming that it's not uh an
Amazon uh facility that's proposed there. Uh we provided some additional discussion of truck trips on Felton Street. Um the city engineer was concerned with trucks specific specifically tractor trailer trucks
moving through the intersection of Felton and Lock up to the site. We did auto turn uh truck simulation to show the path of the tractor trailer moving to the site all the way from Landry Landry Drive up through Felton Street to
Elm Street into the site showed that the those trucks are able to make those turns. Um, we had uh we had identified some potential changes that could be made at the Felton and uh Elm Street intersection consisting of pushing or
pulling back the stop bars on those approaches so that trucks could uh maneuver through the intersection a little easier. Um and and we provided that information to the city engineer. city engineer asked for
some additional information um which we provided in a December 24th letter uh that discussed the effect of of truck traffic on Felton Street um and
uh our estimates at the time uh where we didn't have daily traffic on Felton Street was uh that the project would have an impact not a significant impact the city engineer requested some
additional information. Uh so on January 25th or 21st, 2025, we provided we had collected some uh information on daily traffic on Felton Street. It's indicated there are 525 trucks on Felton Street,
excuse me, uh the day that we did the counts. Um we also uh conducted uh video well we monitored the intersection of Felton with Elm Street um uh with video cameras to
observe tractor trailers making the turns through the intersection. And we identified that the trucks are able to make the turns adequately without encroaching onto or into the path of
other vehicles and other travel directions. Uh however, we had uh in addition to the uh to the proposal to uh to relocate the stop bars, we had identified some additional mitigation
which the city engineer was looking for related to um treatment or analysis of the uh the pavement on Elm Street. and we had agreed to conduct uh pavement
core analysis um at locations of the city engineers choosing on Elm Street to identify uh what types of um what what the existing pavement was there. We had also identified uh a contribution of $75,000
towards milling and paving uh Elm Street. uh if it if it was identified that the project traffic from the project would was causing uh the pavement to to uh to fail. Um
we provided another letter uh February 3rd uh to the city engineer and this kind of got into more of the um the amounts of traffic that were ex that was expected throughout different periods of
the day. So, if you know based on the IT data for warehouses, 87% of truck traffic occurs between 6:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. 91% of that traffic occurs between 6:00 a.m. and 1000 p.m., which
meant that during the overnight hours, if if um if those trucks were coming in, we'd be looking at an average of less than two truck trips per hour over that period. Um we had in that letter we also
reiterated the mitigation related to the stop bar relocation. Uh agreed to do a post occupancy monitoring study as Bill had mentioned to to verify the the findings of the traffic study. Uh again reiterated the pavement core analysis
and the $75,000 towards milling and paving. Um, a couple things that I think are important to note. Uh, there have been no crashes at this intersection at the intersection of
uh, Felton Street and Elm Street in the time period involving tractor trailers between the uh, year 2017 and 2024. The observations of the vehicles of the of the video footage of the intersection shows those trucks really moving through
the intersection at a walking speed. It's a very very slow controlled maneuver. Uh the truck increase due to the project uh on Felton Street is about a 4% increase on a daily basis. Uh 2.8%
during the morning peak hour, 3.3% during the evening peak hour. We think that um you know the in context of the existing 525 trucks that are already on the street uh that's not the type of uh
truck impact that's especially if it occur occurs during the day. It's not the kind of truck impact that will uh that will be noticed. Um, and I think there was a there was another letter that was issued that which was just a
few weeks ago, June 6th, that identified the trip generation doesn't have anything to do with the number of loading docks. It's all based on the number of employees or the building area. Um, so there's a lot of traffic information, a lot of traffic review and
study that's been conducted at the request of the city. Um I know that the the city engineer had identified uh some comments earlier tonight which which you know we had we had noted previously. Um but again I think that the from the
metrics that we have where we look at level of service, we look at delays, we look at operations through the intersections. Uh the project does not have an adverse impact on Felton Street or on Elm Street. Um, if there are any questions, I'd be happy to answer them
or turn over the bill. Councilor Naven. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, can you just just break this out? I was having a bit of trouble following the bouncing ball here. So, there's currently 525 truck trips on Felton. That's we don't know if that's singular direction or not because
they're not both directions. That's both directions. So, it's a total. Okay. Um, and then the increase is you're expecting with the facility 36060, 180, and 180 total. Yes. Per day. So, the existing traffic volume, the total
traffic volume on Felton Street is about 7,900 vehicles per day. Yeah. No, I'm just talking about this is just trucks. Okay. So, so just trucks, we've got um we got 525. Okay. And then um and then
the the truck trips um for the site are 122 entering and exiting. So it's 244. It's Sorry, it's it's 61 trucks entering. 61 trucks exiting. Got it.
Okay. Sorry, I thought you said 180 in and then out. Is that what it's can do? Is that I heard you say 180 there. 360. So, the 360 I'm not good enough at math to make up those numbers. It's uh it's 360 total vehicles. That's cars and
trucks. That was my next question. Okay. It's the rest is for employees. Yep. Okay. Um and then this is not a question about traffic, but Bill, it was just about something you said and you had mentioned as well. So, it's not an it is not currently an Amazon proposed to be an
Amazon facility. Is there a We restricted it in the site plan approval condition says it can't be it can't be while you own it. Uh it's in the permit so whoever's in there. Got it. Got it. Okay. That's helpful to Yeah. That's not going to change. Okay. And there's
there's no intention to create something like that. Yeah. You never know where the world goes from here. So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you can go to West Bro and see it all. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Okay. Thank you. Other questions on traffic specifically? Councelor Orum. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The truck traffic you're talking about the 61 trucks in and out and the study you did with the 500 plus trucks a day. Do you have the hourly? So, because they're you're requesting 24/7. What are the what are the truck what's
the truck traffic excuse me from 7 at night till or 5 at night till 7 in the morning? Do you have that data? might be able to have that data. I was wondering if those 525 are during the day.
Uh it's again uh 87% of it is between 6 and 6. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions on traffic? Councilor Fchillo. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just one quick question about the $75,000 payment for milling um and
paving. I know in the traffic and um in the in the site plan review it mentions $101,000 um for the purpose of assessment and payment. Is this the same thing or are these two separate kind of entities? One was site plan and one was what was pitched or are they I I think they're
separate. They extracted more than the 75. Okay. So the 101 is that meeting? Yeah. No worries. Okay. That's all. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. All right. Any other questions on traffic? Do you have any other parts of
your uh discussion before we get into the details? [Music] Well, not not at this time other than as you know it's site plan review. Police and fire have looked at this already. They approved it. They were fine with
the design, the layout, the operation, traffic that was going to come through and engineering and concom were there as well. Um, I I I thought it was uh really taking a step forward for a client to
say that they would plant what's going to be required in future regulations rather than what's here today. And that was just to make sure that we knew, you know, we were serious. We're trying to get enough uh vegetation on the site and
we kept everything behind the site, all those tall trees. Uh, as far as the lighting, we're actually um we're above Berlin Road, so they're probably not going to see anything up. What I've done in the
past is after a year of full operation. If somebody goes to the building inspector and says, "This light's right in my eye." He goes out and looks at it and comes back and says it's right in their eye. We'd have to modify the structure just to be a good neighbor.
you know, we've done that in the past. We don't want to leave it unlimited, so we usually do it through the first year once the place is built. The other thing is with sound, uh we we're not anticipating that anybody's going to hear much from this site. Uh however, we
are under uh we're just putting a contract together to have a baseline sound study done in the area. So after we build it, if somebody comes and complains, at least we got a baseline to say, "Yeah, we exceeded it or we exceeded it only as allowed under law or
we didn't exceed it." So if if we do exceed it and it's above what's allowed by the law, we have to make a remedy. So they're willing to take proactive steps to be a good neighbor. And uh I've worked with Lincoln for a long time and they build a good product and they stand
by their word. They're not going anywhere. They've been around for a long time. With that, I'll uh turn it back to the chair. All right. So, I'm going to begin with the comments that we got from the department heads and then we'll get into the special permit decision.
So, from Mro Fire Department Assistant Chief Manuel and from the board of health, Director Denwy, they had no issues. Building Commissioner Trey had said in quick reading the special permit draft, I didn't see any reference to the signage ordinance or signage to be
included with the submitt. If that could be pointed out or referred, that would be great. City Engineer Depersio during the site plan review process for a warehouse project that was presented as a byite use I expressed strong concerns
regarding the potential trailer truck traffic that could be generated which will use Felton Street to get to and from the highway. According to the traffic study, a total of 122 additional truck trips, 276 total vehicles per day
could travel over Felton Street based on the warehouse use. My concerns were specifically related to noise and safety impacts to the residential abutters on Felton Street, the ability of tractor trailers to maneuver safely through the Elm Felton intersection
and the impacts of the heavy truck traffic onroad conditions. To address the concerns about the truck traffic, the applicant made significant concessions and agreed to our conditions which are included in the site plan approval. While these will certainly help to mitigate the potential impacts,
I continue to have some reservations over this amount of truck traffic in that location. I will point out um because I would guessable added as u a condition about the signage. There is a sign on Elm Street currently that has 401 Elm
Street. It has MHQ and Metro Church. This address is actually 415 Elm Street. So my guess is a new sign would be put in um and I don't know if site plan will want site plan sign detail when it goes back to site plan
but as I said we can get into that. So on the decision um the findings of facts Royal 401 Elm Street LLC a limited liability company organized existing and a good standing under the laws of the
state of Delaware and existing and good standing under the laws of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts having a usual place of business at 811 Douglas Avenue sweet 600 Dallas Texas the applicant is under contract to purchase
the property located at 415 Elm Street sites approximately 24 acres and is shown as lot two on the certain plan entitled AltacSM um with all of those details specified.
The site's located in the limited industrial LII zoning district and water supply protection district zones A and B. The applicant proposes to construct an approximately 203,500 square foot warehousing and distribution
facility on the site with associated site improvements including parking, driveways, landscaping and stormwater management areas. the project. City of Marbor site plan review committee issued site plan approval with conditions.
Site plan SC 2428 and the city of Marbor Conservation Commission issued an order of conditions to the applicant for the project on March 4th, 2025. on April 17, 2025 is advised by the city of Marbo building commissioner and
pursuant to condition three of the final site plan approval in order to expand the allowed scope of use for warehousing as defined in section 65018A36 of the zoning ordinance in the limited industrial zoning district. The
applicant filed with the city clerk of the city of Marble an application to city council for issuance of a special permit under article 5 section 65017 specifically pursuant to the transportation terminal and freight
depot use category under the table of use regulations to permit the operation of a warehousing and distribution facility at the site. Number one, the warehousing use shall be specific to any future tenants warehousing business
operations at the property and not be limited to the allowed scope of uses for warehousing as defined in section 65018A 36 of zoning ordinance and two the warehouse and distribution use shall be
limited to distribution by such future tenants provided however the proposed Those uses shall specifically exclude an Amazon.com Incorporated or similar direct to consumer fulfillment center
use the warehousing of hazardous substances and/or solid waste as defined in Massachusetts General Laws chapter 21E. And such warehousing use shall be subject to and shall not exceed the
projected traffic estimates and mitigation conditions as described in condition seven of the spa as reviewed and determined by the building commissioner in his reasonable discretion. The applicant consisted the application consisted of one original
and 20 copies of the following. the application to the city council for issuance of the special permit, a filing fee check in the amount of $2,000, the abutters list, the special permit, a whole bunch of plans. The application
was certified as complete by the building commissioner of the city of Marorrow acting on behalf of the city planner and in accordance with the rules and regulations of the city council for the city. City Council established June 9th as the date of the public hearing.
All abutters certified by the office of the board of assessors of Malber were sent legal notification of the public hearing via certified mail. The city council held a public hearing on June 9th. The hearing was opened at the time provided for in the notice and
following the completion of testimony, the hearing was closed. The applicant presented testimony at the public hearing detailing the project, describing its impact, and such issues as the city council and members of the public deemed appropriate. Members of the public had the opportunity to
testify at the public hearing. One member of the public from the Marbor Historical Society with an address of 377 Elm Street spoke in favor. One member who lives at 180 Berlin Road spoke in opposition to the project based on concerns of truck noise and light
trespass. The applicant provided written and oral documentation and testimony to the city council and the city council's urban affairs and housing committee regarding the project describing its impact upon municipal services, the
neighborhood and traffic. According to the planning department, the site plan has been reviewed by the building department and conforms in all aspects to city code. Based upon the above, the city council makes the following findings and facts. The applicant has complied with all
rules and regulations promulgated by the city council. City Council finds that the proposed expansion of the allowed scope of uses for warehousing beyond that which is defined in section 6501836 of the proposed ordinance in the limited
industrial zoning district. Specifically including the proposed use at the site is an appropriate use and in harmony with the general purpose and intent of the zoning ordinance when subject to the appropriate terms and conditions as provided in this decision. The city
council makes these findings subject to the completion and adherence by the applicant to the conditions more fully set forth. City Council, pursuant to its authority under Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 48 and the zoning ordinance, grants the application for a special permit
to the to construct the purpose the project for purposes of operating of a warehouse and distribution facility at the site specifically for the uses set forth in the application documents subject to the following conditions. Number one,
construction in accordance with applicable laws. Construction of all structures on the site shall be in accordance with all applicable building codes and zoning regulations in the effect in the city of Marble and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and shall be built according to site plans approved in the final site plan
approval. Site plan approval, sorry, site plan review. The applicant shall comply with the terms and conditions set forth in the final site plan approval. Terms and conditions of such decision and findings are hereby a part of this decision.
Number three, conservation commission. The applicant shall comply with the terms and conditions set forth in the final order of conditions. The terms and conditions of such decision and findings are hereby a part of this decision. Number four, compliance with the
applicable laws. The applicant shall comply with all applicable municipal, state, and federal rules, regulations, and ordinances. They may apply to the construction, maintenance, and operation of the project and the use of the site. Incorporation of submissions, all plans,
photo rendering, site evaluations, briefs, and other documentation provided by the applicant as part of the application and as amended or revised during the application hearing process before the city council and/or urban affairs are here and incorporated into
and become a part of the special permit and become conditions and requirements of the same unless otherwise altered by the city council. And I have noted based on the first special permit that we need to specify the plans within this. So I
will take all the documentation from number five, the incorporation of submissions which lists all of those plans. Uh number six is hours of operation. The operation of the use at the site shall be 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Number seven, lighting applicant. Its successors and/or signs shall install lighting in accordance with the site plan submitted with the application to prevent unreasonable light trespass from the site onto neighboring properties. Landscaping applicant and its successors and or
assigned shall plant and maintain in good condition the project's landscaping substantially in conformance with the site plan submitted with the application. And number nine is our standard recording of the decision.
So um other than maybe adding in a condition about signage, councelor Ducet. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. um what we haven't talked about yet and
I didn't want to throw this out at the last minute but um are is there any um idea of you guys putting solar on the roof of this building? I mean it's either it you you plan for
it now or it never gets done. You either do the support in the roof. It is planned for supports of I'm not sure John if you know exactly how that structure is but usually these do these um are designed for some type of
support. Okay. I I have known structure large structures like this either are or are not and there's no retrofitting afterwards. So that's what I wanted clarification for. So I'll take it that as a yes. Thank you very much.
No further questions. Anybody else on the committee with questions, concerns? Council for Chillo. Thank you, Madam Chair. I uh just want to take a second to recognize going through site plan and seeing a lot of the conditions. I know that, you know, kind of vice versa. There was a lot that a lot of give and take and and speaking with city
engineering, I know they still have some concerns regarding traffic, but it seems like there's been, you know, a strong effort to to meet us where we are on a number of issues. So, I really do appreciate that. Um, one thing that I noticed in past special permits that we've done is just regarding noise and air quality. I know that the one
gentleman who came out during the public hearing had mentioned a couple of concerns. I know noise was one of them. I'm not sure if there's an opportunity for us to maybe add a condition. Um, in the past we we use language just that you will, you know, stay within the city's noise ordinance and that's really it. I mean, that's anyway that that
would still be a regulation anyway, but I think just adding it to the special permit could be beneficial. I don't know if there's an appetite for it. Um, my other main concern was just the hours of operation. Um, you know, I just kind of wanted to know why it would need to be a 24-hour facility. I know in the traffic
study you mentioned that most of the trips, most of the volume occurs between the hours of 6:00 and 10. Um, so kind of what is the incentive to be a 24-hour facility? I'll tell you what I think it is and then I'll ask the applicant. Uh
literally sometimes you have to get uh some of your product to to a long out a long ways and you have to do it up at night to get it out the door. And that's why it's I mean it's maybe two an hour. It's at 16 over the course of the night if at a max. Uh I don't want to limit it
to 16 cuz what if we did 17, you know, but it it's going to be minimal. Um but I'll I'll let the uh Yeah. Scott Faber Lincoln. So, um you know, a lot of it is related to um again and we we heard that as a
concern and we understand, you know, again, we we want to be working with everyone here, but um one of the things that we we tied it to was that the traffic study would be kind of the the golden rule here in this case in this and so that traffic study saying only
certain two trucks an hour, you know, during those those more kind of offhour time frames is what we have to be held accountable for. And if and if we're and if it's found that it won't operate that way and we're not holding our tenants to that. And really a lot of that is just because
say a tenant needs cargo comes in late off of in in New Jersey, they the guy is booked to get here. So he's just got to come up and they don't want to have to reschedu him for another time to come up. It's just a it's 5 hours to get here from that port. That's just what it's going to take and and that's how how it
goes. So I think it really limits you from your tenant base if you're not if you have no flexibility on that. If you're able to say like look we have this flexibility that's it that's absolutely fine and we found that's acceptable. Um and again we're we have to mitigate that. We have to control that um if if it doesn't come in that
way. So and we work with um the building inspector during that process um after it is operational. So um that was how we look to solve it. You've seen other projects. Um there's a project in Rethm that allows no night
um traffic. It has been empty for 3 years simply because it is just simply not allowed at all. So no tenants will look at that building just simply because of that rule. No, I appreciate that insight. I think it's a a strong compromise. The fact that in those, you know, not peak hours, you guys are
holding yourselves accountable that that traffic is what you're going to be to. So, you know, I wouldn't be in favor of amending the hours of operation. I think 24 is sufficient considering that condition that you've you know come to. Thank you madam chair. Any other I councelor vital.
Thank you madam chair. How many loading docks do you plan on having? 35. I don't want to say loading docks if they're not a loading dock. I think it's written on there, but illustrator spaces 34
35 loading bays inside. There it is on there. Yep. I just just so everyone kind of knows, I've done a little bit of reconnaissance here. I went up there at night time and I couldn't see any lights from any of the residential facilities at all. You'd have to climb up on the hill and maybe
get them. And I can't say for the winter time, but right now you can't see any residents any lights. And then right across the street there's a right across the street there's a facility that has a leving loading docks. So they must have some truck. I don't know if they have
any deliveries at nighttime but they definitely have shipments coming in right across the street. So just an FYI. And there's up farther up Elm Street on the same side there's another uh manufacturing facility and they have I
think seven loading docks. So they were there big trucks going up and down Elm Street. Yeah. And I'm sure they were included in a traffic study. I see councelor I'll I'll do council or then council president.
I saw your hand. So go. Okay. Thank you madam chair. U I'll concur to some degree with the wad counselor from wad 6. I'm concerned about the 24/7. Um, noise changes at night. The
background noise drops and you mentioned you would follow all noise bylaws, state laws. They don't have any requirements for trucks to be quieted down at night. They can make as much noise as that truck supposed to make. Secondly,
secondly, and more importantly, backup alarms cannot be changed and muffled. So, when you say you're going to meet noise ordinances, I respect that. I've done noise studies, so I understand how they work. We had an asphalt plant and trucks were going through at night and
the town finally made them stop because that background noise cannot be considered as a as a violation of noise bylaws. Those trucks are supposed to make that noise and they can. And same with the
backup alarms. And again, at night, your noise drops down. When I'm out at a campground, I can hear the traffic on 95 3 mi away. And I know 495 is right there. But to add backup alarms and additional truck traffic on Felton
Street as well as Elm Street, the reason this is probably limited industrial is because you're mixing in with residential. And I don't think that's fair to the residential. So if you're not going to consider the hour change, I can't vote for this based on my
comments. Thank you. If I could, Madam Chair. Yes, if you It's my understanding I've done a lot of noise attenuation, especially over at Ken's at the refrigerated food facility in Southro and anything over 10 dibels above what
is there now is a violation. Okay. So if even if those backup noises are above that then we have to attenuate it. Yeah. We we don't have to shut them off chair if I can. We have to attenuate after he's done. I we have to attenuate and over there we had to build a wall
because the abutters were that close that wall. They were only that far away for us. This is we're above them number one you know quite a bit and they're 600 ft down on Berlin. Felton they're a little closer. Uh but and but most of
the trucks are on the back side of felt so you got the building in front between them you know so the activity would be in the back so I I mean I understand your concerns and that's why we're doing a baseline so that we can able to address this later if it comes up as a
problem. And madam chair if I can just help with that. As you said you you cannot attenuate the backup alarms. They're allowed by federal government laws unless you build a wall. That's a different way to do it. And I'd rather
not wait to have a wall built. If you want to build a wall now, a soundproof wall to protect the abutters, then that's okay for that spot. But then you're increased traffic on Felton Street late at night is another concern of mine. And so, and the city engineer
has noted that. So until you can come back with those concessions, I can't support this. Especially I can't support 24/7. Yeah. Well, thank you. And we have 24/7 now. Gentlemen, I don't think this is No, we don't need to debate. But the other point I want to make, Madam Chair,
is we set a dangerous precedent for all the other businesses. Why not me? Why can they operate 247? We're across the street with the less bays, but we can't operate 24/7. I would question that as well. Thank you, Council Presiato. Thank you, Madam
Chair. Thank you for being here. Uh, thank you for your presentation. Um, you guys did a lot of work to put this together and I did have a question regarding the solar panels um that uh councelor Detad had already um asked. Um I know that
this is a quite substantial chunk of land that is going to be um essentially developed and repaved and you know asphalt over. Um it's over 4 and a half acres. Um I'm just wondering um aside from solar panels, do you have any plans
to help mitigate the the loss of habitat and um you know loss of green space that we're going to have once if this gets approved and gets built? Well, we tried to preserve all the habitat area with the wall so that we could build up where where it's already
disturbed today. So it's it's not like we're interfering with a a car. You know, I see your point. And that's exactly why we built it the way we did, so that we wouldn't take out that car behind us. Gotcha. I also do want to echo um councelor Orum's concerns
regarding the noise. Um this does, the way it is right now, it does create a noise buffer, pollution buffer from 495 to the folks over at Berlin Road. Um so I I I would be concerned that that would increase um both traffic pollution, uh
light pollution, noise pollution. Um so um I just wanted to put that out there. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Council Fillo. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to kind of go back to this idea of the 24-hour use. You know, I'll be very candid. After reviewing this, my
intention was to try to limit the hours of use. You know, I I came into this meeting thinking, you know, this would be a dangerous situation for residents, but I am those concerns are very much conned by what you folks have told me in the in the site plan review. you are holding yourselves accountable to your
own traffic study that says that you'll do two truck trips during those hours between 10 to 6 every hour. So that that's 12 total trips during that time, you know. So I personally I I don't I don't share another council's concerns that that this being open 24/7 is is
going to be an issue. I think it helps you folks do business, right? The last thing we want is to build this and have it be a vacant, you know, a vacant building, right? Nobody here wants that. And not only that, I think this condition within site plan ensures that you guys are held accountable and you know in in the event that something does
happen that you do three trucks in in that period of time then the city has an opportunity um you know to ensure that you guys comply with that going forward. So um you know I'm I'm very comfortable with the hours of operation as is um and I uh you know I'm at this moment I would
be supportive of this project. Thank you madam chair. Thank you madam chair. point. Councelor Det. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Um, so my father was a truck driver, so I know the history as far as truck driving. They tend to work with very odd
hours. And, you know, if you think traffic is unpredictable, wait until you get inside a truck and try to drive a truck, you know, interstate from point A to point B. And you cannot predict when you're going to reach your destination. Which is why facilities like this,
terminals like this have to be open 247. They're not open 247, then some guy is going to be parked in the parking lot waiting for the place to open still on the clock, which is why the guys keep the place closed cuz they can't do 24-hour entry. So, I think it's
important as a feature that this is kept open 24/7 because it's it's an important part of these these guys' business model to make sure they can get something, they can drop it off. After they drop it off, then they can go crash. That's another story. But I think it's
important that the 24/7 is uh part of this. I think because of the height it is and the distance it is away from uh Berlin Road specifically still 600 ft high. I'm not sure how much even the backing lights are going to be heard
from Berlin Road at that point, but we won't know for sure until it's up. Um the platform itself, I think, will create more of a sound buffer for 495 than trees because it's solid surface up there now like walls and stuff. So, I
think overall it's um it it has issues with traffic, but I think overall it would be an opportunity for people to take advantage of um for distribution um in around the New England area cuz it's location, location, location. So, I
do approve it. If anyone else has any concerns, I would motion to approve. Uh it's been moved. I have some comments to make, too. I will second and then I will just bring up the fact that I will remind everybody that there is a site
plan approval for a warehouse and uh manufacturing and warehousing which will allow them to warehouse footwear precision instruments tool and die dental medical optical equipment electrical and electronic instruments
hobby vehicle storage biomedical and biotechnology products subject to the provision visions governing biomedical research provided truckloading and parking areas are effectively screened from vetting office and residential use. That is something I write that site plan
has approved. They're asking us to give them a special permit for a transportation terminal and freight depot for which they have absolutely no idea who that will be except that it can't be Amazon or similar direct to
consumer fulfillment. However, it says very clearly provided however the proposed uses shall Oh no, that's not the part I want. Um the the warehousing use shall be specific to any future tenants
warehousing business operations at the property and not be limited to the allowed scope of uses for warehousing that I just read. So they're not only asking us for a transportation terminal that they have no idea who it's going
for and they want it 24/7. They also want to be able to put stuff in there that isn't even in our code. And that's where my concern is along with the amount of truck traffic. Um, I
did not get to go to all of site plans meetings because they changed the dates back and I had a conflict. But to every single one that I went to, site plan in their ways, they have to they had to approve this,
but they sure didn't want to have to approve it. They're going to be cutting down trees. They're going to be putting up a wall that nobody wanted. They're going to destroy a habitat that's back there probably. I have concerns about the noise. I know I live near a lot of
noise between Marble Hospital and the police station traffic. Uh we got a resident who sent us information that he hears 495 traffic constantly. Um I know Elm Street can hear 495 traffic.
I do not think we need we don't have to approve a special permit. They have a site plan that they can go and build a building if they choose to do so. I do not know if the hours are limited in the site plan. There's nothing that I can
find to talk about the hours, but I cannot vote for this. Um, so that's where I stand. I saw councelor Oing with the hand up, I believe. And then councelor Ducet, I'll get back to you if you have further comments. Thank you,
Madam Chair. Um, so you are correct. Site plans approve it. So they're they can build the facility right now, right? trucks are going to come 24/7, right? I I personally look at it, I think our zoning is flawed. I think, and
I submitted a draft to the solicitor, but it hasn't gone anywhere yet, that the warehousing should be changed similar to what we do for retail. Retail under 75,000 gets built by right. Retail over 75,000 has to come before the council with a special permit. I think
warehousing should be the same. Why we pick those handful of items? I don't know. I mean, it's it's to me it seems kind of limited. I would think we'd want to have it more uh you know, a warehouse is a warehouse. You
want to have more thing. Now, if we want to limit cuz if it comes before us for a special permit, that way we get the say and say, "Okay, we don't want pick whatever you want. Don't like an Amazon. Don't like tires. You can pick whatever you want." Right? So, um, I
still think it's going to be built. So, council robe, you're concerned about, you know, I I agree they have there was constonnation at site plan and in conservation. Um, but they did work through all their items and came up with
uh approval. Um, but something will, you know, like anything else, if you don't want something built there, go buy it. the developer has the permission and they got their rights to go build it and they did everything they're supposed to. So, they're going to go build a 200,000
foot warehouse. They're looking at an opportunity to say I can fill that warehouse quicker if I have some flexibility in the zoning, which is what we're being tasked with. So, you can say you don't want to, but I agree with Council Ducet. I don't want
an empty 200,000 ft warehouse. We see the challenge. The 1,000 Nickerson, what's it 120,000 square ft of space right now? They're just, it's been completed, what, two years? They're just now starting to rent
about a third of it, which is great, but it takes time. But they they went and built a building with no tenants, so it will get done. Do we make it easy or do we make it hard? I say we put the checks and balances in
place so they can, you know, do what site plan and conservation gave them the opportunity to do. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. And I I guess I would argue maybe they won't build it because they don't have a tenant, but councelor Deset. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Um, so our zoning somewhat exclusionary. if it's not listed, we can't do it. Which in the case of the warehouse storage is a brilliant example of how it falls flat on its face, i.e. flawed, you know. Um,
as an example, you know, for about a year and a half now, I've gotten into this meal delivery service. Once a week, they drop off a box with ice packs and food that I can serve for three nights, right? So, where does that come from?
How could that ever be distributed in from Malboro? Because we don't allow refrigeration for for storage, you know, warehousing storage and stuff like that. We we set up lines based upon the history of what we did. Shoes, high-tech. Boy, does that sound
familiar. Look at our history books, you know. But we got to start looking forward to what is available for warehouses available today. And with changes of technology, you know, people are getting a lot more things delivered to their home from
multiple sources, not just Amazon, but you know, the the demands of the channel is much more significant. Um, I read some on NPR they had an they had a essay
about how refrigerating of produce has changed in the last 40 years cuz it's not just climate control, it's environmental control, you know, um, you know, nitrogen gas and all that stuff. you could see a chunk of this used for produce and just long-term storage of
produce or something like that, local apples to be distributed later, things like that. So, I think what we need to do in this case is kind of give them the crack to open up and see what sort of warehousing issues are being need to be
addressed for the modern, you know, the 21st century and make sure that we we fulfill a solution to address that for the area. But thank you. All right. I am not positive because there's actually nothing after the words transportation
terminal and freight depot in the code, but I would bet that those can be airond conditioned and that they can in fact store things that need to be air conditioned. So, if we don't want this to be a place that would have air conditioning, that I think was brought
up as a concern, then it should probably be specified that it's not um because it's not just going to be warehousing. It's going to be a transportation terminal that allows a whole different set of uses that are very unclear to me what they are. If I
could, Chairman Roby, just one second. The reason we're here under that part of the bylaw is because the building inspector said that's how we had to come to you because you don't have warehousing anywhere else. So, we came to you under that. We're still going to
build the warehouse we're planning to build. You know, we're not we're not going to create like a Ken's refrigeration facility. And that's what the problem was over in Selfro. You had 20 refrigeration trucks out there at night running. And it was it was
actually low frequency that people were hearing. 495 blocked out the high frequency, but you could hear the low frequency. And that's why we built a million-doll wall, basically. And you don't do that until you know it's needed, you know.
But nowhere in here does it say that it will not be a refrigerated terminal or freight depot. So, you don't know who your tenant is yet. We we're just looking to expand our right now we're having under the what we're allowed tenants come and they're
like well maybe maybe not and and then they'll go somewhere else where it's quicker all right uh and that's what Marro used to be we were quick we would get things done and move on and we just want the latitude that if uh let's say a
refriger not a a utility company that sells stuff for your house your refrigerators things like that they want to store that stuff there. That's the type of thing we're planning is going to go there. I mean, I can't tell you it won't be refrigerated food cuz I don't know.
And if it is, we'd have to comply with the building department to make sure any condensers or anything we were putting on the thing met code. Is there further discussion? I believe it's been moved and seconded uh to
approve. Does anybody want to add in the um point made by the commissioner Twe on the signage? So that we add in that sentence signage shall comply with the city's sign
ordinance. So moved. All right. So it is the draft special permit as amended adding in the sign language signage language. Is there further discussion? Councelor Fillo. Thank you Madam Chair.
real quickly that noise and air quality. Is that something we also wanted to assign or were we just under the assumption that site plan was? Do you have specific language or do you want to I would I would move to add I've gotten this from other special permits as well.
Noise and air quality. The applicant shall um comply with the city's noise ordinance and shall comply with all state and federal requirements governing air quality and emissions. So very very basic standard line but I think that covers some of what was discussed today especially about the noise and some of
the air quality concerns. Does that work for everybody? Sure. And if you can give me that language I can make sure it's in what gets sent. Um further discussion see none. All those in favor one two
three I am. All those opposed would be me. Who are we missing? Oh, I'm sorry. How did you vote? Did I Okay. Like, who? Wait a minute. Who didn't vote? All right. So, um, this will be reported out
with a vote of three in favor, two opposed at the July 21st meeting. It would I'll ask for a suspension to have it referred to the solicitor so he can make sure everything is included that we've discussed tonight. Everything else is in
proper form. and we'll be back in August for a vote. Thank you. Motion to adjurnn. Now, it's been moved and seconded to adjurnn. All those in favor? 1 2 3 4 5 and we are adjourned at
8:52. Thank you.