Can I like to call this session of the Legislative and Legal Affairs Committee to order. It is 5:30 p.m. on Wednesday, May 14th, and we have two items on our agenda. I'm going to take the items up
in the order that they appear in the agenda. And the first item is order number 25-10009430 communication from Flying Dreams Brewing Company LLC regarding a request to expand outdoor seating to use parking spaces on Rollins Avenue
adjacent to the existing sidewalk seating. Um so at this time I would like to invite you to come on up. Okay. Hello. Hi. Um, and just for the purpose of public record, if you could just let
us know um, your name and the business you're representing. I'm David Richardson. I'm the owner brew master of Flying Dreams Brewing Company. Um, pardon my appearance. I just came from brewing. So, no worries. Little bit
draggled, but no problem at all. I appreciate you being here and um so I am just going to briefly go over the requests that you're bringing in front of us. So on April 11th, 2025, we
received a communication um from David. It says, "This letter serves as an update to the existing licensing agreement for the use of parking spaces on Rollins AB adjacent to the existing outdoor seating on the sidewalk of Rollins A on the side of the
Victoria building for outdoor seating." Um, so you're asking for um permitted use from May through November 2025. um you provided a a map that's also in our packet and it
shows your current outdoor dining seating um which is the sidewalk area and then it's the spots that are adjacent to that sidewalk area that was already approved that you're requesting.
Um it says outdoor seating will be open the same hours as the tap room. No additional tables are required from the original license. However, we are requesting additional space to add additional chairs to existing tables. Jersey barriers housed by the
Malro Department of Public Works will be placed on the outside of the parking spaces with added lighting for customer and vehicles on the road. And um so that pretty much details your request. And so before I open it up to committee and
other members, um is there anything else you'd like to add or share with committee? Oh, I mean just that, you know, we had originally uh pre2020 um just had this just gotten approved for the sidewalk and uh and then we we we
like the the winter of 19 into 20 is when we finally got the approval like we did all the the licensing with the state and everything. And so that spring we were shut down. Um and then you know due to the um uh the um social distancing
um you guys granted us those and the state allowed you guys to grant us those parking spots to expand and it just worked really well. Um it just made it a much nicer area for people to sit in and we were really as soon as people could come out and sit outside, we were like
busy out there, right? And uh now that the state isn't just letting you guys say here you go. Um we just thought we'd take the opportunity right away to see if we could just continue that. Thank you very much for the background information and at this time I'd like to
open it up to um members of the committee. Any questions? Councelor Villo. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Mr. Richardson, for being here. Just uh one quick question. I did look it up, but the you know, you're looking to do the outdoor seating as the same hours as the tap room. What are the
hours of the tap room currently? Um the it varies per day. Wednesday, it's um 5 to 9. Okay. Um we stay we'll stay open a little bit later if there's people hanging out, but we've never been open later than 11:00. Okay. Right. So, we
say the hours are 5 to 9 and then sometimes we'll stay open a little bit later than that because we're licensed until 1. Um, but we usually don't even get close to that. It's just, you know, so um so then uh Thursday and Friday is
4 to 9. Uh Saturday is 2 to 9 and Sunday is uh 2 to 8. Gotcha. All right. No, I appreciate that. Um aside from that, I have no further questions. I do drive down Rollins A when I leave city hall on my way home and never do I ever see vehicles in those parking spots. Very
rarely do I see them. So, so for those reasons, I really have no no concern with this in front of me right now. So, thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Councelor Fill, Councelor Roby. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, I had done some looking up at the history of this
because I know I was chair of LNL back in 19 when we did approve um, a license to encroach on the public sidewalk which then, as you stated, CO took over and then you were allowed to expand. Um, the original license was an annual license
that was supposed to be renewed. So, I think if we do anything, we should make sure that what we're doing is a license to encroach um because it is the sidewalk and then also if we approve it the street. I I do have some concerns about going into the
street. I was actually I drove by it today just to look. Um your tables that you have out do not match the layout that was approved in that original plan. you state in your letter to us that you don't plan on adding tables, you only
plan on adding seats. So based on where you have and I think when this was originally done, there was an order by the code enforcement that you maintain passage for pedestrians. So your tables and chairs are closer to the building.
There's a path from the on the sidewalk for people to walk by. Yes. if you now have chairs in the street, what are they going to use to put their food on? So, I think there there's just the confusion is um when you know the with the original
layout with the original tables and chairs on the sidewalk um when we added the um the parking spots, we didn't increase the amount of tables, we just increased the amount of space um because we couldn't, you know, we had
to keep people farther apart, right? So, we had to keep people farther apart. Uh, and now that the social distancing kind of rules aren't in place, we can put once we're in the parking spots, not on the sidewalk, but on the in the parking spaces, we have quite a bit more room to
spread out and like put uh previously just a four top that would have been on the sidewalk. Now, in the parking spots, we can turn it sideways and put six people around it, for instance. But those six people would be on the sidewalk or in the street on in the
parking spot. Okay. So to so we wouldn't be increasing the number of chairs on the sidewalk portion just in on the tables that were in the parking spots. So you are going to be adding tables and chairs into the parking area is really
tables. So you're going to be moving the tape. I've got a picture which I could give you a copy of. and I can pass around to everybody else. So, the way we have it set up here is
because we don't we don't we can't just have the parking spots, right, without this approval is we've put all of the tables onto the sidewalk, right? which in our original plan approved by the state
which got added to our liquor license as part of our annual renewal. Uh we had all the tables and the chairs on the sidewalk. We didn't add any tables and chairs when we got approved to encroach
onto the um parking spaces. We just added we just moved some of them. I think I understand um what you're saying. So, just maybe as a a way to clarify um just correct me if I'm wrong.
Um where you have existing tables set up in a certain way. Um currently on the sidewalk, you are only able to accommodate a certain number of chairs because of their orientation and not blocking the pedestrian traffic. So,
you're going to take the same tables that you currently have, move those tables to the parking spaces where you will now be able to instead of say having them lengthwise up Rollins, they could be switched to horizontally. And
that means you'll have the same number of tables, but you will be adding chairs to accommodate that extra space that became available. So, it would actually free up the sidewalk. Well, we wouldn't be So, we only be moving half of the
tables into the parking spots. So, that's what I was saying. The tables that were still on the sidewalk would remain with the same number of chairs on them so we weren't encroaching onto the sidewalk or or you know, so we weren't taking up that passable space, but the tables that were in the um that we move
over to the parking spaces would have a lot more room to maneuver around. Thank you. And then the jersey barriers housed by the Malro Department of Public Works would be placed around the parking spaces so that the tables aren't necessarily in the street. They're
protected by correct the barriers. Right. And then there was like there was kind of one on each end and then you know however many it took to go down the to to block the side off. Okay. I just wanted to make sure I was following correctly. I'm going to turn it back
over to councelor Roby. Thank you. And that's what I was trying to clarify. You literally are going to have tables and chairs not only on the sidewalk but also in the street. Correct. But between what's in the street and what's in the sidewalk will still be the ability to
walk on the sidewalk. Okay. In that case, I will read a response that I got from Chief Georgie on my question whether he had concerns. It is more concerning. Uh let's see. If Flying Dreams were looking to add chairs to the smaller tables, which currently have
only two chairs, or add a larger table in order to add more seating, I would not be really concerned. If, however, it is more concerning if they are moving tables, chairs into the roadway, and parking spaces without adding better lighting and barricades to prevent a
vehicle from driving through the setup. I'm not sure how many parking spaces they are looking to use, but I would suggest that significant stable barriers need to be in place to protect the seating which may be in the roadway spaces. So, if we're approving this, I
would also want to make sure and and I would suggest maybe that we get a new seating plan um and have new language for the license to encroach that also includes encroaching into the
parking spaces with specificity on how many of them. Uh I don't the the photo didn't go to this side, but there is a car parked on the street now. I am there um the second Thursday of every month and
there are cars parked um in in those spots when I'm there and I I would say that there are cars parked there. So, the fact that there is not a lot of traffic, uh, I guess I'm not really concerned, and I understand your desire
to have the seats, and I don't object to that. I object. I just want to make sure that not only the pedestrians sitting in those parking spots, but the drivers of cars going up the street are all separated very safely from each other
with those barricades as suggested by the the chief of police. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Roby. Um so before I open it up for further comments and questions um one of the notes that I had also made was um the specific number of
spaces. I just didn't see it. Um I believe it's four. Okay. And so regarding uh my opinion with the number of spaces is um I feel like whenever I've gone um you know
during the warmer months and um sat on your on the outside seating it's been just a few times and um I've never seen any um cars try to utilize any of those spots um at that time.
And so I personally feel like that it is it's a nice thing for your customers to be able to enjoy um going inside. It has a completely different atmosphere. It's more of that like um like dark basement.
It's very It's a nice like it's um it's a nice dark space if you're looking for that ambiance, but you know, I feel like it would open it up to more people if you were able to also utilize outdoor space. I feel like um for a small
business that would really kind of open things up for you. Um and our um demographics of downtown are going to be changing as far as number of residents. And so this is something for me that right now this makes sense for me. But
you know perhaps in another year or two we would maybe want to revisit the setup if um if it seems like the city really does need the parking spaces. So um that was just one thing that that I was thinking is that right now it makes sense for me but I would just want to
make sure that it would still make sense in the future. So, um, right now it does have my support for the season of the May through November 2025 and I'd open it up to others. Councelor Vital, a wheelchair going down the
sidewalk. Yes. And you were the first brewery in town, right? Uh, technically, I think first to open. First to open, right? And have you had Not by long, but And you haven't had any major issues with with the police? Oh, no. None at
all. Not in fact, not a single one. In fact, you're pretty well uh connected to the community. Sure. Right. In fact, this Sunday you're going to be helping out over at the family fund festival. Oh, yeah. That's right. Very good. Well,
thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Madam Chair. Hi. Thank you, counselor. Councelor Presiato. Thank you, madam. Uh Dave, thanks for being here. Um, I've visited your establishment quite a few times and I have sat outside. Uh, not so much now that we have a kid, but um, definitely
always a a a nice experience. Um, I was wondering, so I was wondering about how many spots we would lose. So, you answered that for um, how many customers do you typically see right now like outside on a week day versus a
weekend? Right now, it's not many. This is it's still the weather's still up and down. It's true. It has been typically rainy. Um what about in the past years when you've had your outdoor space? So when we first got approved um for the
spaces in the summer of 2020, uh we were jammed out there, right? And now it's touch it's touch and go. It's all it's all over the place. Sometimes it's half full, two full. Other times there's three tables, right? And it just so much
depends on how humid it is, how not humid it is, how cool it is, how hot. If it's too hot, people don't want to sit outside. If it's too cool, people don't want to sit outside. So, you know, it really it's weather dependent. Gotcha. So you have seen some some business improvement from from having that
outdoor space meaning meaning more customers coming and visibility as well because it's you we're not very we're the least visible business in all of downtown because we're have a whole parking lot behind you know or in front
of the business. Yeah. And um uh you know, we can't put a sign on the street other than that, like the green and gold one, which no one can see because it blends in with all the other green and gold signs. Um people often say they drive by it all the time. People ask me,
"Hey, how long have you been here?" I was like, "Oh, we came in December of 18th." They're like, "How how am I learning about this right now?" Um and I, you know, I think visibility for us is really really poor from the street. Yeah. I I would so on on that point um
you know your business is one of the businesses I do see on that end lit up especially the outdoor patio. So it definitely does um bring a visual attraction to that to the west side of Main Street um which you know I think all of us would really enjoy um especially since there are new
businesses coming in there. Um so you know because of that and you know I don't really see any other issues um parking issues or whatsoever. So I would be in support of that u although I'm not on the committee. So thank you. Thank
you councelor Presiato council. Thank you madam chair. Uh I I heard you say and I see it's in writing too that you're going to be using barriers provided by the city. Uh, and the police chief said that the barriers shall be
safe. Now, I notice in your liability information, it indicates that the city's not held liable, but if the barriers fail based on the style and the concern of the police chief, it it would
concern me that we're make that we want to make sure the city is not liable because if the barrier breaks down, doesn't do its job, what's the liability to the city? So, I don't know if that's been addressed by legal yet, but I would suggest highly that that be addressed
because if a unfortunately if something was to happen as an accident and the barrier was at fault, I don't want to see the city liable. It It's kind of unique that the city's providing the barriers. I look across the street and they have their own barriers. How did
that how did that originate the use of the city barriers? So um when CO happened and so many businesses weren't allowed to do business inside to begin with um the city graciously um granted a lot of or
businesses that that could and would and wanted to um these parking spots and barriers. uh the state um I think waved some kind of um some kind of application or uh license or whatever that they would normally need you know uh to
change the license at the state level to do this kind of thing. the state said to the cities, "Hey, if you want to do this because COVID and you know, go ahead." Right? So, the city uh allowed us and a few other businesses around town to, you know, take up some extra parking spots
because we were doing all of our business outside. And then that happened, I think, for it happened for as many years as the state kept saying, "Yeah, sure, keep doing it." And then this year is the first year that the states uh came back and said, "Hey, you know, we want to go back to getting this
all on board." And I'm agreeable it's outside seating. You're seeing it everywhere from down on Route 20 East to right in the center of the city. I'm just concerned about if we're giving you the barriers, not just liability, why aren't we doing it for every business?
It it creates a situation of making sure it's fair for all. So if there I'd like to hear from the DPW commissioner on this if indeed this is a practice that's going to occur for all businesses or your business. You know I don't want to see others treated differently. If we're
going to treat one business with the same kind of situation, we should be treating them all the same way. And I just across the street I don't see city jersey barriers. They've built them a new sidewalk for them though. Those are city barriers. No, the sidewalk that
didn't used. Okay. The sidewalk didn't used to be the sidewalk over there is at Wellies is bumped out. So they don't need that's just now part they have they have planters out there. I guess I'll call them planters. Uh but they are right out there. You can look out the window and you'll see them. Uh but the
other question is so I would ask that our DPW director at least respond that this is a norm for all businesses or are we treating one business different? It's got to be fair across the board in my view. If I'm interject a little bit, manager. Yes, council. Yeah, I believe those are the exact same barriers that
started um at Wellies. They're they uh however they're approved by uh DOT or whatever the the the the weight and the measurements of those barriers were approved by the state. Um and those are identical that were used up and down Main Street, I believe, until those
cutouts were made. Um so I believe that those were endorsed from the very beginning. And again, my question is, is this something the city does for all businesses or is it they have leftovers and they can do it? Uh liability, obviously, if a if it fails, should the
liability statement also indicate we're not responsible for the barriers? If they have any failure, I would ask legal counsel to review that. Another question, the lighting, how does that occur and where do the wires go? And is that your responsibility or is the city providing the lighting? Uh, we're doing
the lighting. And where are the wires? Are they on the ground? Are they They're up in up in the air. Up in the air. They're going to be supported by They're supported by uh a combination of the building and a couple of the trees that are right there. Okay. So, they won't be dangerous if you're trying to cuz you got to be concerned about the
pedestrians. I heard other comments on that as well. They're like 9 ft up at at the lowest. Okay. As long as no tall Celtic player walks by, we should be okay. I think they'd even be okay. Yeah. Uh one other and first of all, I did hear council of Idol compliment you. Of course, we're very appreciative of any
business. We have one sitting behind me right now coming up next of what you do for our community. Thank you. I had a question on the food. Uh, do you serve food there? Uh, we make pretzels. That's it. Okay. And at the end of the day, do you have a cleanup process for the
outside so we don't attract rodents? Yeah, we clean. I mean, we're we clean every single day. The only time we run into an issue is sometimes we get transients um uh sitting on the tables when we're not open and leaving trash there and then we come to open up and we
got to clean all the trash up and wipe them everything down and you know open up. So your cleanup is at the end of the day. You'll be cleaning up through the day. I mean we also wipe the tables down before we open as well because pollen and leaves and whatnot fall on the tables. I've been outside in your
facility at an event once. So, it's it's a nice area and I understand it's just worried about liability and also fairness to all businesses. So, I'd ask legal counsel review the liability on those barriers and that our DPW commissioner respond in the respect that
we're utilizing city property for the barriers as has been done for other businesses, but where is the policy? I like to see that. So, I can ask the DW commissioner. Oh, he's here to invite There you are. Scott to the well.
So the question if I threw madam chair to you is is this a policy the city has to allow for barriers to be used by any businesses? I just want to make sure commissioner that we have a policy for all and not just for one business. So uh
MEEDC got a grant and they have they bought the barriers. We just install them. So, so and and they Hello. So, during co we offered all the barriers to any downtown business that wanted to do outdoor dining. You saw
Wellies used them for a while. Lo used them. Flying dreams. We didn't have anybody else that wanted to utilize them, but we did purchase and construct the covers that you saw on top of the barriers. We worked very closely with um Jeff Cook at the time, the building
commissioner, and the site plan review committee to make sure that they were safe and that everything was being done according to code. So, but now the barriers are under the DPW responsibility. According to what I'm reading here, they just place them. We we house them and we place them. Okay.
So, that's where my question on liability comes. If it was to fail, who is liable or can we be exempted from liability? Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Councelor Orm. I believe councelor Presiato had a question. It's been so long I forgot. Um, so
I so to Mark uh to uh councelor Orm's point, um, you know, we should look into liability of the of the barriers. Um, but I would argue that the city has done quite a bit to help other businesses out, expand their outdoor dining, expanding the sidewalk space for them to have built-in outdoor dining. Um, so I I
don't think it would be fair to say that, you know, why should we do this for one business when we're not doing it for others when we actually have done it all down Main Street? That's all. Thank you. Madam Chair, if I may, I would just ask that we create a policy cuz what if you get five businesses wanting the same
barriers? You know, I think the city needs to create some type of policy just so it's there. First business in gets the barriers. Something like that. And I think we would defer to MEDC on that. We we've just never we take our direction from that. They they tell us uh when
they've talked to them what's come up and and we have these certain amount of barriers. So I will say we we've never had an issue. It was we when we started it the barriers were only offered to downtown businesses cuz we were trying to increase the outdoor dining in the downtown area. At the time we did have
other restaurants that did do the outdoor seating. Um La not los the the Mexican restaurant that's in that. Yep. Um Lat I think it's Latapatia um what did that um Ember and Alma is now the name of it but that they did it back
then. I forget what the old name was but they also did the outdoor dining. So we had a number of people Aviva out you know 110 grill people all over the city were doing it but they didn't need the barriers in the same way that you needed on Main Street. They had parking lots. They had areas that were not as exposed
as the main street down here. Okay. Well thank you for your answers. Again, just concerned if we're noted here in these bullet points, I just want to make sure we're not liable. It talks about the uh barriers and the DPW. So, thank you. Thank you, Madam
Chair. Thank you, councelor Councelor Roby. Thank you. Um I I didn't look it up, but I believe the city council at one point had approved outdoor dining on Main Street. So, this business is not on Main Street, nor would any other business that wants
to use city sidewalks be able to just put outdoor dining out there. That's why they originally came to the city for a license to encroach, which I still believe we need to make sure they have going forward, and add not only
sidewalk, but the four parking spaces that they're asking. The original license to encroach had that the lency agrees to indemnify and hold harmless the city, their officers, employees and agents from and against all suits, actions or claims, civil or criminal or
any character brought because of any injury or damage received or substained resulting from the existence or obstruction of budding the license area. So, it's in the details that were provided by the solicitor at the time.
Um, which I don't remember who was the solicitor in 19, but I'm sure that that same language would be there. Um, this particular document also has that they do they're not allowed to use any of the
tables after 10 p.m. So, if in fact you are open inside till 11:00, if this is repeated unless it gets changed, that would still be in place. Um, other than that, I don't have a problem asking the solicitor to bring a document that would
have basically this same document from 2019 with the addition of the um, parking spaces and the addition of the barricades provided by DPW into the document so that then we could vote on
that. I mean, it is a little different, right? I mean the license to encroach in 2019 was just on the sidewalk. Correct. And now you want the parking spaces which I don't think any of us have an issue with. You just want to make sure I think you know um councelor Orum uh you
know with the barriers that that that does bring up a little bit of a legal issue, right? So so if someone were to were to hit a barrier and the barrier failed that that makes our business liable for that. I like like I said, I would take all responsibility for all
the people and I mean I mean a car could come and hit someone on the sidewalk at any point. Uh so I don't see that the barriers provide an additional liability. You know, someone hitting the the barrier, wouldn't they be liable?
Um, I think the issue is that by you're agreeing to this license, regardless of whether it's the person hitting the barrier, the city is not part of any kind of claims. The city would be held not liable for anything that happens by
granting you this encroachment is all that we care about. We're out of the picture completely. So, it would be between you and the driver of the vehicle fighting it out. Um, and I don't think any of us or the city solicitor would allow the encroachment into the
parking without that liability included. And now that you're saying it, councelor, I believe that the barriers that were offered downtown were anybody that was using city property. I think that's that's how we did it. Yeah. Because they were encroaching on the street where the sidewalk they can use.
Correct. Without the city council having anything to say about it. Right. And that's we gave a license to encroach to another restaurant on Main Street because they actually were putting their they wanted to they never did they wanted to put tables and chairs on city
property that was near the staircase that goes up to the street behind downtown. So we gave them that license. Thank you. Thank you councelor Roby. Councelor Rosing. Thank you Madam Chair.
Um, so two points. Uh, in 2009 to councelor Roby, you don't have to be on Main Street. The order that we passed in 2009 states starting from what was then Papa John's located at 8 Hilder Street up to 280 Main Street, all the downtown
Malbor establishments. So I think you're I consider you downtown just by my you just because they're off of Main Street. They're downtown. That's you're not going up town to go to the Flying Dreams. So this was a 2009 order that we
we approved. Then why did we approve a license to encroach if in fact we passed that? Because this just said where you can go outdoor dining, you then have to go apply for a license, which is what my next point is. If the committee feels that the license is what they want,
motion to if it's to approve, send it to the then ask the solicitor to put it in proper format similar to the one that councelor Roy's been talking about with any added things that you would like to see. Parking spaces on Main Street, the barricades, whatever else you want. That's what that's what you would do.
And then Blind Dreams gets to have the space that they're looking for and the city has the protections they need because we've done it in the past. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, President O. Um, if there's no further
discussion, I will entertain a motion at this time. Madam Chair, Councelor Fill. Thank you, Madam Chair. um move to uh similar to what President Austin just said, I would move to approve the license um and send it to the legal department um pursuant to the parking
spaces and the barricades. That language being added. Okay. Thank you, Councelor Fill. Um a motion has been made and seconded. All those in favor? Um any opposed? None. Vote
carries. 30. Thank you. Do I have to travel when I wake up? Just get that, right? I think I can. Okay. Thank you. At this time, I would like to take up order number
25-1000 9417. communication from Melinda Gallagher on behalf of Lashu Brewing and Roasting regarding requests to expand outdoor seating to include public areas including the new plaza behind city hall. Um I'll invite Melinda up to the
well and I'm going to start just by reading the letter that you submitted. So on March 28th, 2025, dear Malro City Council, going to put my for that
one. With the warm weather approaching and the completion of the Weed Street and City Hall courtyard reconstruction project, we would like to request an extended use of outdoor seating for Law Shoe Brewing and Roasting Company to utilize this new space. Since opening our doors in May 2019, we have focused
our business on being a community player and creating experiences for Malver residents and visitors to the city. We envision envision this newly renovated area behind city hall is a vibrant area with live music, food trucks, farmers markets, and activities
such as yoga to bring our community together. To do that, we would need to be able to utilize the space under our current license without needing to obtain 1-day pouring permits, which are limited to 30 per year. We are requesting use of the sidewalk area by
the Court Street garage 7 days a week for seating as we have used in the past under the pandemic extended outdoor dining. We are also requesting use of Weed Street between Court Street and the end of City Hall Courtyard, including City Hall Courtyard, specifically
between Fridays at 400 p.m. through Sundays at 8:00 p.m. on a weekly basis. We understand that many people access city hall via the rear entrance on the weekends, and we will ensure that there is always a clear path from the parking garage to the rear building entrance. We
also will make sure there is ADA accessibility at all times. We will use road barriers to close Weed Street to traffic and stansions. Is that how you say that? Yes, thank you. Or the like where there is not already a natural barrier for no alcohol beyond this point
signage to ensure beer is consumed only in the licensed area. The area would be constantly monitored by members of the law team to ensure proper use and compliance of the space as is typically done in the tap room. All trash would be
removed and disposed of by Lashu. We thank you for your consideration and are happy to answer any questions you may have. Best regards, Melinda Gallagher of Lashu Brewing and Roasting Company. Welcome, Melinda. Thank you. Thank you. Um I'm I know we've received um this
letter and I just want to allow you to share anything else before I open it up. Sure. So, um, for again what Dave was mentioning about COVID, um, there was temporary extended outdoor dining during that time where we were granted access
to use to close Weed Street, um, Friday through Sunday and also use the what was bark mulch prior. Um, it's now beautiful uh, pavers. It looks great out there. Um, and we also were using four of the parking spots that were um, the old
parking spots before the the uh, road work was completed. Um, so we're looking toi be able to continue that. Um, but also I think most of you know we like to do a lot of events downtown, do things that will bring our community together. Um, and with that we have this beautiful
new courtyard that we hope is going to get utilized all the time and we want to help make that happen. Um, so the reason for including that courtyard in this application is so that we don't need to go forward with applying for those one-day permits on a consistent basis. Again, they're limited to 30. So, we
couldn't do nearly as much as we've been able to do in the past. Um, if we had to go for our 1-day permits, um, I wrote an email earlier just to kind of clarify, we would need over 70 one-day permits if we were to um, execute everything we did the prior years.
Thank you, Melinda. Um, okay. So, at we did receive um, the email and I believe um, everybody has a copy of that that was on their desk. Um, and now I would like to open it up to members of legislative and legal committee with any
questions, comments. Councelor Pillo. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for being here. Uh, I have a couple of questions and and really one of the biggest concerns of mine is the road closure, albeit very small. Um, I know that on weekends a lot
of times, and I've just seen this in terms of coming back and forth to city hall, people will park along the street, hop out, run into city hall, vice versa. So, that kind of thing will will no longer be available. I know that you're opening at 4:00. City Hall is open from,
you know, 4 to 5 um on that Friday. So, I also worry about people using that um road to go in and out during that. I know it's a 1 hour window. I know I'm being very picky here, but that 1 hour, um, you know, I've had an elderly neighbor of mine who I've driven down there and, you know, she can't make it
from the parking garage and she can't go through the front entrance. So, you know, I have I have some concerns about the road closure itself. Um, aside from that, um, you know, I'm I'm I everything that's existing that you're looking to reup, I'm absolutely in favor of. Um, I
don't have any concerns there. So, I'll let other members of the committee and the council go from here. But um my main kind of question is how amendable are you to to the road closure portion of this? I mean you know we are very like we understand that city property is not our property. So we are very willing to
work with the city on whatever you're willing to let us use and if that means shifting the time frames we're absolutely open to that too. Okay. Thank you. Thank you madam chair. Thank you councelor councelor Roby. Thank you madam chair. Um, I may be a minority,
but I personally object to the ability in the past and going forward of closing Weed Street on Saturdays. We don't close Main Street on Saturdays. I don't understand why we're closing another city street on Saturdays. Um, so that's
that's at least my opinion. Um, and whether anybody else feels the same way, I guess we'll wait to see. Um, I I guess I also although we didn't really have a whole lot to do with the design of the
courtyard, we approved the money. If we did it again, I would certainly change the design. Um, but it's also it's the city courtyard and to me it should be used for city events, not other
businesses events. They have their own space. Um, so I know you you're asking to be able to use it. There's nothing that says somebody from Law Shu or from Wellies or from anywhere can't take their food and go sit in the courtyard
behind city hall uh at any time of the day or I guess night. Um, but I I have a problem with the granting of this
for 70 events throughout the year that are not really city events. They're your establishment specific events. So that's I will say some of them are yes they're under the law umbrella currently but you
know the farmers markets one we do host that I mean I'm the market manager it will be moving under the downtown village association so we've tried really hard to separate that from a lawu event we want it to feel like a city event not a brewery event we want it to
be very inclusive and welcoming of everyone um so that's just one example you know a lot of these events that we do um organize you know, we're from Malro. We want to see these events happen downtown. Um, I think that's a little selfish of myself creating something for my business, but it's for
the community. Um, at the end of the day, so I just wanted to throw that out there that, you know, there I understand we are a business. Um, but we do do these things not always for the business, but for the community instead. And I have no objection to anything you
do on a Sunday because you can shut the street down. Um, so shut the street down, have events. It's the Saturday part that I personally and I I know I'm not alone. I have had complaints from residents. Why can't I go down Weed
Street on a Saturday um during the summer. So yeah, and we I do want to say the farmers market, this is outside of any type of liquor license. The farmers market use of public space has already been approved for Saturdays from June 14th through October 4th. So that area will be closed. Um, and I don't
understand why the farmers market can't be on the area behind city hall so the street can still be used and it would be significantly smaller. We'd probably have to cut 60% of vendors. Yeah. Yeah. Then maybe that's a discussion for next
year's farmers market. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Roby. Um I just wanted to share some of my notes before I open it up to um the non- voting members. And so from my standpoint,
I agree with counselor Roby that, you know, the the use that we've seen previously, um I I agree that we could continue that. Um with the newness of the plaza
that is here and um it's actually going to be dedicated to Gold Star families and um that has a big significance. Um, for me, just out of my my respect for veterans and especially gold star
families of our city, um, I really want to see the dedication happen. I want to see more of what might happen organically now that it's just open. Um, I'm afraid that if we were to go forward
with the piece, um, to allow the plaza to be utilized in this way, um, for me, and I know this is not your intention. I know it's not, but as I was considering this, it just it feels more exclusive than
inclusive. And um so for those reasons, I'm not in support of um utilizing the plaza in expanding the use. And now I I'll open it up to other [Music]
comments. Councelor Orum, thank you. Thank you, Melinda. Actually, it was at your place when you were having your what fifth anniversary? 10th, sixth. Well, and I understand the need for controlling in the front of your business. We just had another
business wants to have some control on the side of their business. The question, I'm sorry, I'm on these barriers is the barriers. I used to do marathon security in Ashland. Once we had the issue on the marathon, we got
very serious about barriers. My question to you is, what type of barriers are you proposing to close off? I seen your barriers, but what are you proposing anything safer than what's being presently used? Um, I mean, with the road, if it's a temporary
road closure for the weekend, we can't put anything too permanent or significant in that space because it does need to move out Sunday night. Um, so we I mean, what we've been using are just plastic road barriers, kind of similar to I mean any of our big
downtown events, we use those types of barriers as well. Um, so that's what we have used in the past. Um, I I would probably ask that the committee refer this to the police chief. I don't want to sound like the expert here, but I've had experience in this. What can be
used, but again, it's up to the police chief is large trucks to stop any type of car from going through that barrier. Sure. And that's a concern of mine and and that's why I was asking the previous applicant about their barriers. Uh I would ask that this be referred to the police chief at least on the barrier
part. On the part that I did with the other applicant, I want to compliment you. You are really making that part of our downtown vital. Uh it's changed so much. But at the same time, we have a new area behind our plaza, which I agree
with some of the council's comments. We have to be careful how we go about this because as I mentioned previously just with the barriers you know if we're going to give them to one business are we opening up to all businesses and it would be the same for the plaza. So I I hold reservations for that but I don't
want to hold them completely tying you down. I would like to see maybe something that could work for the city both for the use of our plaza for everyone as well as the use for your business and the farmers market because I agree the farmers market I think it's
a great aspect for the city a great opportunity so again and then the other question I just had one other question madam chair it's the time span uh it doesn't say if it's just for this year or next year is this are you looking to have this without a time span or is this
for this year you're requesting it I mean we would like to continue this as long as we can. Um, but you know, again, we're open to working with the city and what the city feels they're comfortable with. Um, so yeah, and you answered my questions about trash as I asked you. I want to be fair to both applicants. Uh
thank you for your two letters and again I have some reservations on the barriers and as previously mentioned by the committee members how much use does one business get and does that offer opportunity to other businesses as well as the star families and so forth. So
those all have to I think be taken into consideration. Sure. Absolutely. And thank you. Um I did put in my um my letter today. I just want to be clear there is a use of public space application that does have to be submitted um which we've that's how we've always done our bigger events
going through the use of public space um application the submitting a noise variance if it's required and um those do get signed off by all departments in the city. So um I mean we would not anticipate stopping that process
whatsoever. We would still, if we're planning to use the courtyard for something, we would still plan to put a use of public space um application in. If someone else is already using it that day, then great. Someone else can is utili utilizing it, which we're hoping more people will. Um I know in the past
there's been very few events out back in the courtyard. And I'm hoping now that it is a little bit more usable that we will see more of those events happening. Um, but we would still regardless be putting in a use of public space um, application and I appreciate that you wrote that in this letter when nothing
else is planned. So maybe we can sharpen that up a little bit. Sure. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Councelor Oram. Uh, councelor Dart. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Um, to follow on what, uh, Council Orum was talking about, um, I, you know, the the, uh, blocking the
traffic on Saturdays, I think has been raised concern multiple times. I think that's an issue. Um, as far as the plaza behind the city hall, um, it's new. The city really doesn't know how to use it yet, to be honest. I mean, I'm not seeing people saying, "Oh, we got these
plans and how to use it and stuff." But it's a it's a great plaza to be utilized. I think that having you coming as first move advantage to take advantage of it, I think at least shows traffic in that space to show that it's
usable to have people. It's one thing to say, "Oh, we have this great plaza, but you can't use it. No one else can." But I think at least having someone go in to demonstrate its use for a year, by the way, you know, but just something like that to show interaction with the plaza that the tra the plaza is getting use, I
think, is important in this point in its age because it's really less than a year old. Okay. Um but having said that I think you know there's a great performance corner to set up for acoustic or small bands and stuff you know um I'm not seeing
anything within the city to how to manage that. Um, I think that if we make this agreement with you, um, there probably needs to be some conditions as much as that if the city, you know, if you know, you you have the general case, right? If the city decides to override
your use on a particular day, we're allowed to do that and say, "No, you can't use it on this day because something else came in." Okay? you know, so I I think that's amendable so that if we, you know, if we get our act together over the next couple of months and start
using it more and more often, you know, then it's more events, different events going on, you're the backup. Fine with that, you know, and even if there is events there, you're right next to it anyway, so it's still good, you know.
Um, so I don't vote on this panel. I think that with proper adjustments in the wording, I think this can actually be very effective in useful for the city, at least demonstrating, you know, uh what's possible back there. So, and we we do um I mean, with the farmers
market already, the use of space already being approved, um we do know the Malro Police Department has their K9 fundraiser in September, and we've already talked to them about how we're going to break the market down half an hour early. they're going to help us break down. We're going to help them set up so that they can start on time, too.
So, we we definitely are aware of some of those events that are coming up. Um, and like working together to make sure that they're both successful. Yeah. And thank you for everything you're doing for the city, too. So, thank you. Thank you, Councelor Ducet. Um, councelor Presiato had his hand up and then I'll
go to councelor Vital. Thank you. Thank you, madam chair. Um, thank you, Melinda, for being here. Um, we know each other very well. I think we I actually was at your establishment the first day you opened. So, it's it's been a long road. Um we work together all the time. We through um our artist
collective and we always have art shows in your establishment. Um so, I you know, I appreciate everything you do for for the community and for the city and and to bring everyone together. Um unfortunately, I do agree with Councelor Brown in terms of using that space. Um
it should be a communal space. It should stay with the city. It should stay open to the public. Um you're requesting for 70 uh or you said um you had had 70 events in previous years um in that and
um not necessarily just the courtyard. Okay. I was going to say so the that includes Friday through Sunday where we just had right in front of our tap room closed off and we had live music right out front there. So that includes those dates too in addition to the farmers market um when we did have it behind
city hall previously and then um some of our other events like the Halloween street fair and turkey trot and those types of things. Okay. Um the farmers market is great by the way. Um I'm but I am glad that it's peeling away from Lshu and and moving towards more centralized
organization. Um but uh yeah, I I I I cannot support this in in in those terms. Um I I would like to see the space being utilized by the public more so. Um and if that doesn't happen in the second year of
having it, maybe we can look and and see what else we can collaborate with with Lshu and and maybe some other businesses there that would like to have an extended permit throughout the year. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Presiato. Um, and I also just wanted to bring up another
thing that I had been considering because if one of the issues is that pouring permit, one day pouring permits are limited to 30 per year. Maybe that would be something um, you know, down the line we could
take a look at if that feels restrictive for you. It might feel restrictive for other businesses. So um, any other questions or comments? Oops. I'm so sorry, Councelor Vital. I'm over here in the corner. People forget. Um, my
colleagues and I uh might differ on things. We we talk about downtown and we want to bring businesses downtown, but then we keep putting up barriers and telling businesses you can't do this, you can't do that, you can't do this, you can't do that. And I wonder why
businesses don't come downtown. LSU since they've been in here has been one of the best businesses in this town. They have supported sweats for vets. They have supported supported a townwide coat drive for four or five
years in a row. They do toys for tots. I mean, I can't I would have to sit here for 20 minutes trying to list all the things that Lost Shoe does for our city. They're asking for this little thing and we're making it sound like they have to
jump through a hole. Jump through a hoop. Try it out. No one. Leave it. Leave it. Leave the uh patio open for other things. What is there like a line of people trying to get in the back? No one's No one's even asked for that. It's been out there for a year. No one's even
tried to get back there. If Lo can bring business downtown, bring traffic downtown, that traffic is going to eat at other restaurants. that traffic is going to buy clothing that that crowd is going to make Marbor a vibrant downtown. I am overwhelming support of this and
and the Gallaghers who are by the way were born and raised here in town. If it's not working out, they'll be the first to pull it back. If you know anything about the Gallaghers, so this is this should I'm not voting on this on this committee, but I am strongly in favor of allowing
them the opportunity to expand their business in that patio for the time being. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Councelor Vital. Um, and I would just like to say I am not at all saying that um, you know, the Gallaghers aren't reputable or the business does so many
things for the city. I 100% agree with that. Um, but it it's more of like I wouldn't be able to just say maybe this wonderful business owner comes in, but they didn't grow up in Mal Bro and they
don't have Gallagher last name to fall back on, but they could be equally as, you know, good of people doing great things for the city. And I'm just trying to look at this through a lens of really just um an equitable situation for use
of the plaza. And um I understand wanting to drive traffic down there. Absolutely. Um I don't feel like we've had a full season yet where the plaza's been fully constructed. So I don't feel like we really know yet what will
organically happen. Um I saw councelor Ducat had his hand up. I was going to wait for you to finish. I Sorry, I didn't realize no. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that. I mean, there seems to be disconnects going on here because there's, you know, big disagreements on on approaches here.
But, you know, it's a new plaza, right? This it's less than a year old, right? 2024 is marked on it. It was completed the end of this year, end of last year. So, this is a new thing for the city. And I'm seeing I'm thinking for the next
couple of months, the summer of 25, you know, what are we going to do with it? Cuz it's late in the game for anyone to plan to use it. Except these guys came up with the plan. Okay. And for the year, if if you know, they're agreeable so that we can give it to them, but if
we want to override particular days to do other events, they're fine with that. I think that can be addressed in the wording. So, you know, on a, you know, they're the fallback that if we don't have anything else planned, they can do it for the rest of the season. Okay. Next year, it's another game because
we'll see who shows up and who are there other people competing for the for the p, you know, for this for this space. There may be some, you know, they may get three or four companies coming in and saying, we want to reserve a month or we want to reserve this, but so far we only got one this year. And I think
we should run with this so that there's activity back there because if it's not, it's going to be a quiet p plaza for the summer and that's just going to be quiet and they'd rather see buzz. Rather see activity there of any type. Okay. And if
someone else comes in and they want to do a concert, you know, or something like that cuz there's a great place for there for, you know, a concert, you know, some present, you know, then have them work with the city so that we can still reserve it. It's not exclusive to
them. They're just like the back stop. If nothing else is done, they can take, you know, they can play with it. But I think this is for, you know, for the first year, I think this is great opportunity so people can recognize what the courtyard can do. And next year it's
a different game. So I think we got to focus on this year, but we got to make sure there's activity back there. And if they're not going to do activity, then where's that activity going to come from? Because we need buzz. You know, that's a beautiful courtyard and we need
buzz there to show how good it is. So sorry, I'll get off the soap box. Thank you, Councelor Ducet. No, no, I've already spoken, so go ahead, President Nawson. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, well, well said. Both counselors Ducet
and Councelor Vital. Um, Molina, can you last weekend you used the courtyard? Can you just describe the process to what you had to do to get the courtyard for last weekend? Yes. So, last weekend we I mean months ago, we put in a use of
public space um application. We always we we plan our events like I mean I know what when our anniversary is going to be next year, right? I know when our our events next year are going to be already. So um we put the use of public space permit in many months in advance. We put our one-day pouring permit with
the licensing board in many months in advance. Um and then if we're having live music outside, which we did, we put in a noise variance um as well. And that all goes through the online um city systems gets approval. Um, so that is kind of the norm for whenever we do one
of these big events that is outside of our normal license, liquor license. So, if I were just to paraphrase, you go up to the mayor's office. I know you do it online, but you basically ask the mayor say, "Hey, mayor, can we use the courtyard?" And the mayor's, I'm sure
there's not a calendar, but the mayor probably says yes because no one else is asking for the courtyard. and we have never had any of our applications declined because there was something else going on. So I I guess I would recommend to
the legislative and legal is a minimum approve the sidewalk in the area adjacent to the garage. I mean I think that's that's a no-brainer. we've done in the past and I would try for the year with the caveat and you can have Jason put the wording in that if someone comes
up and says they want it I'm you know the law will abide by it or make some kind of caveat to legal smart enough to come up with the words and I'm sure Melinda's willing to accommodate that but to be using it I mean cuz if we say
no what's going to happen next week there's nothing down at um the courtyard cuz no one's got a permit now. Will they? And if they if what Melinda does works in magic and people come flocking to want to use the common, well, we owe Melinda something.
I'm not sure what that's going to be, but that's good for the city. Mhm. So, I would hope the LNL would look favorably as a minimum approving what's on the sidewalk and across the way and then allowing this to start with a with a caveat that the solicitor can work with
that says, you know, they've got it and they can use it and if they don't, you know, someone else wants it, you know, MU knows they're going to get bumped. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, President Nawson.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, I, as I stated before, I have no objection to Court Street being closed or Weed Street being closed on a Sunday. My issue is, and it irrelevant because the mayor, as
stated, approves the like the use permit that has been approved by mayors before him. Um, so Weed Street is closed and I believe Weed Street last year was closed every single Saturday throughout the summer. Well, it was closed all summer
due to the road work. So, yeah, there's no down there at all. So, to say that nothing happens downtown or nothing will happen is not true. It does it make them have to go through hoops? Possibly. Um, and I certainly agree with councelor
Oing. I believe the request was to use the sidewalk by the Cord Street garage 7 days a week for seating as we've used in the past. Again, I don't know who designed that um Weed Street extension
to remove parking and have less parking spaces, but it's certainly not set up for parking now. So, the fact that it's set up and tables are already there and being used, I don't have a problem with those continuing. So, I certainly could move
to have per grant them permission to use the sidewalk area by the Court Street garage 7 days a week for seating. Um, my concern is the rest of the request to use Weed Street between Court Street and the end of City Hall
Courtyard, including City Hall Courtyard, specifically between Fridays at 400 p.m. through Sundays. If that's said specifically on Sundays, I would be fine with it. Um, which would then mean if they want
to to continue with Saturdays, they're going to continue doing what they're doing and getting their use permit. Um, I know I brought this up when we did the budget that recreation needs to be there needs to be a person like there was
before to have somebody who would be doing live music, food trucks, farmers markets, and activities at the courtyard. We don't have somebody doing that. So, yes, it's not being used and will continue to stay there. Uh, it will
be used, I would guess, this summer as it typically is for the city employee lunchon. Um, I'm betting and except for a few other occasions that have happened in the past that it's not going to be
used on a regular basis. So, I'm okay keeping it like it is. Um, I mean, I'm not okay, but I don't have a whole lot of say because the mayor has the ability to grant those use applications
and unless we say you can't shut Weed Street down on Saturdays, those will continue, I'm guessing. Um, so at this point, I'm going to move to approve the use of the sidewalk area by Court Street garage seven days a week for seating by
Lawu. And if anybody else wants to add something else as a separate vote. Thank you, councelor Roby. Um I will second your motion, but there is still um some discussion. I saw
councelor Presiato's hand up. Can you restate the motion? I wasn't clear what you're approving. Move to approve the use of the sidewalk area by the Court Street garage 7 days a week for seating by Lo Shu. So that would be as it has been
permitted in the past as current use. Well, yeah, I didn't see there was a need to add that additional part of it as we have used in the past during the pandemic extended outdoor dining. I want to clarify too that that did include the closure of Weed Street as well for that
front of um the tap room area. So point point of information. So again, the committee can do the I'm just trying to gauge the the the opinions of the gang around the room. This takes six votes. When it gets to the full council, when it gets to the council, I'm sure there's going to be amendments because
I'm hearing divided opinions. Now, whether there's six votes is a different topic, but just so that the councils don't feel like something is or won't happen, you'll get another swing at the pitch, whatever LNL determines. Thank you, President Nasing. I was going
to say something similar that um the committee is comprised of myself um councelor Roby and councelor Fchillo and what will happen after this vote is that we will just be sending our recommendation of committee to the full council but then the full council will
take it up. Further discussion will happen. Um further amendments could be made. Um, so with that, councelor Presiato, do you hear? Sorry. Can I just make a clarification? Absolutely. To me, this is has nothing to do with the
closure of Weed Street. Just like people crossing from sorry from the parking garage to city hall or anywhere else. If people choose to sit in the sidewalk area by Court Street garage by taking a
drink from inside Law Shu and going and sitting there or anybody else who chooses to sit there, they're doing it on their own risk of traffic coming down weed street and crossing a open street as they do
so unless it's on a Saturday when you've closed the street. Um it's not main street, but that's Councelor Fello. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, in listening to the discussion and obviously with my opening statement, um, I am also in agreement with councilors
Vital Ducet and President Austin. I I have no issues with the proposed additional use for for the simple fact that I hear councilors, especially during election season, we get asked about downtown Malbor and what we're going to do to revitalize it. And often times the answer that comes back is we
have to invest in the infrastructure of downtown that can then allow for the small businesses and the medium-sized businesses to do what they can to make downtown a better place. And this to me is a perfect example of that. And so for me to pass up an opportunity like this I
think would be going back on all the things that I talk about especially during election season. So, I personally feel that that, you know, although there might be little things like, for example, where I think maybe it should be 5:00 p.m. on Fridays and not four, those are things that we can talk about on the floor, um, you know, when this
goes to the committee, but I I would not be in favor of the motion that that's before LNL currently. Um, and I do support, um, kind of the all or nothing approach, I guess, is what I'll call it. So, thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Councelor Villo. Um, councelor Presiato had been waiting. Thank you, Madam
Chair. Um, I did want to respond to councelor Vital and councelor Ducet that Lashu will have business on weekends whether they have the courtyard or not. They are very popular spot. Um, people love coming to your establishment. They love coming to your concerts when they have them. They love coming to your
markets when they have them. You will always be busy and you will always have the support of the city. Um, and frankly, this is this the permit is a bit excessive, I think. um you can go through the process just like everyone else and you will get
approved typically you do I don't think you've ever been denied um but I think if we do this it does set precedence for other businesses to say hey you know law you did it why don't we apply for you know 70 permits throughout the year um I would not want to see that happen with
other businesses we have a set path to do this and it's already set in place um so I don't know why we're going be granting special access to a different business. Um, and again, that's nothing against you guys. It would be the same
with any other business that came before the council. I would feel the same way. Um, um, you're, you know, you you're you will be bringing in revenue, right? I'm I'm not worried about that whatsoever. Um, your farmers markets will bring in
revenue. you know, anything the city hope and actually sorry, councelor Roby, I do hope that we get somebody in that position that will be able to to create events for the city and be able to utilize spaces like that, like our parks, um, like our courtyards, like our main streets. So,
it I appreciate your efforts and I think, you know, what you do does bring a lot of business and people to to Main Street and to um to your establishment and to the city. Um, but I just want to make sure that everyone is on equal footing with this.
Thank you, Councelor Presiato. Councelor Oram. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm just going to wrap up where I was. Um, we need an event coordinator in this city. If the mayor's office is doing it, so be it. Let them set up a schedule. I would suggest if this language gets tightened
up so it's open to all first come first serve even on the event day you know if you scheduled it Monday and someone came in Tuesday there needs to be a procedure I would ask the mayor's office to address that since they're doing it right now and tighten up this language a
little bit so it's an advantage to you and to other businesses just so we have a playing level playing field. Uh, I would ask that the barriers be approved by the police chief and that it be a one-year allowance at this point. And we'll see how it all unfolds because
I'll be honest, I love that picture they had in the basement level when we walked in. They showed a food truck and how the facilities would be used in our plaza. So again, it would and thank you for your statement about other people trying to get in that, you know, I think we
need to we at this level need to set up something so it can be an advantage to you and other businesses if they so wish. But I'm siding towards approving it with the language tightened up a little bit to leave it open for all
businesses. And I am uh concerned about 4:00, especially on a weekday. I'd rather see it 6 o'clock or 5:30 because city hall is still in business at that time. So, thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, councelor Orum. Councelor Det.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Um, so I understand the issue of precedence, but the courtyard in the back is um a a a complete new precedence for the city as far as space goes. We never had
something like this before. And for non-encclosed space, I think it's the only one there. For enclosed space, we have the library, but that's a different beast. Um, we need to show activity in the courtyard, and if it's only there, you know, the argument seems to be that,
well, we'll open it up for everyone, but no one's showing up except for them. So, let's give it to them. They're willing to be the back stop if other people come in and start saying, well, we want to use it, too. they can we can swap in the new people and stuff and work it through that way.
But we need to show activity because once people see it being done there, then people like, "Oh, maybe we can do this, too." And then new businesses do come down. But if they don't see people doing it, no one knows it's possible. Okay. And I think that that's an important part of getting traffic into
that courtyard. And thank you for at least proposing it. By the way, um I would just like to add that I don't feel like um myself, councelor Presiato, councelor Roi are suggesting that Lashu
may not use this space during times they might want to. It's more of just following the established permitting process that um to go through and that any business could also go through. And
I do want to see the plaza utilized, but I am just I'm supporting following what we already have and I'm in support of councelor Roy's motion. Um if there's any further discussion, I'll take it
now. Councelor Ducet. Okay. So the the reason why I'm such adamant about this is because of the limitation of porning licenses. Okay. if we do this as a group set and that's why I said I would be open to visiting um the idea of how many
pouring licenses. Sure. But I'm not sure if that's a state law or something controlled by the city at this point. State law. Thank you. Which then we can't. So I mean this is this is the isms we have to live with as counselors. We need to work around this. But I I
think showing the activity is huge right now because this is the first season that the courtyard is there and next year it's a different game. But you know, let's let's let them give them a try. They're trusted within the
community and they're willing to work with us and it gets traffic into the you know and yet you know regardless or not they're going to have business going and there'll be people hanging around there. The question is whether or not it's organized or not. So, and I think people
need to show that this courtyard can be used effectively by businesses cuz they got to show, you know, it's got to be something that is shown on a regular basis for for people to businesses to sink in saying, "Oh, this is out there on a regular basis." You know, it's not
just like onesie or, you know, heaven for you got to fill out 70 applications for for this. And you know, I'm on her side as much as the paperwork doesn't necessarily, you know, it it makes it more complex, but doesn't necessarily get you at the right right end, you
know, the right ending. So, because if she fills out all 70 saying she wants the application, then what happens if someone else wants to do it and it's too late because they already filled out all the applications. This way, we set up the application. We can override it. Makes
it more flexible. I think in the long run it's beneficial for the more beneficial for the city by doing it this way for the year. That's it. Thank you, Council Ducat. Council Ro. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, we could probably continue debating this the rest
of the night. My motion has nothing to do with the use of the courtyard. So, I would I believe it's been seconded. I would move the question. Okay. Thank you. So, a motion has been made and seconded. All those in favor? All those
opposed. The vote carries 2 to one. I'll entertain a motion. Council Petrella. Uh motion to adjurnn. A motion has been made and seconded to adjurnn. Um all those in favor? All
those opposed? The motion to adjurnn carries 3 to zero. We are adjourned at 6:48. will start in 10 minutes. That's it. Good evening. I will call to order the finance committee meeting on May 14,
2025 at 6:52 p.m. Um, we have three items on the agenda this evening. One, a communication from mayor uh regarding the proposed tax increment financing agreement, TIFF, uh, with Greenland Rail Partners. Uh we also have a communication from the mayor regarding
uh great uh grant acceptances for various projects. And then the end of evening we have a communication from the mayor regarding a proposed amendment to city code chapter 125 personnel section 6 salary schedule related relative to
various leadership positions in the department of public works. I'll begin with the first item on the agenda this evening which is order number 25-1009410 communication from the mayor proposed tax increment financing which is a tiff agreement uh with uh great
land reality uh partners and and the commonwealth of Massachusetts uh for the proposed construction and leasing of a new crime laboratory for the Massachusetts State Police at 100 Martinelo Drive. I'll begin by reading the letter submitted by the mayor. Uh,
dear Council President Oing and counselors, enclosed for your review is a draft resolution and information concerning a draft tax increment financing, TIFF, agreement concerning the above reference project. Uh, the property owner is proposing the
construction and leasing of a new crime laboratory for the Mass Massachusetts state's police. The proposed project includes building of an approximately 200,000 square foot building at the property for lease and operation of a new state-of-the-art Massachusetts state
police crime laboratory, including investment of approximately $200 million and 300 new permanent full-time jobs, 250 which will be created by relocating existing jobs elsewhere in Massachusetts
and 50 of which will be new permanent full-time jobs uh to the project area. Uh in closed, please find supporting information concerning the tiff agreement project and draft resolution. Uh please refer this matter to the finance committee as we are continuing
to work with all parties to on finalizing the form of the draft tiff agreement and in intend to provide the draft of the agreement in advance of the future finance committee meeting. Thank you for your consideration. Sincerely, Jay. Christian Dumis mayor, which the
mayor did finalize and the city solicitor sent over the draft. So, so good evening and welcome to the city of Malro. Uh, obviously very exciting to have you. It's a nice piece of the puzzle. Uh, but I'll let you do the introductions and you can do the review of the tiff, please.
Uh, great. Thank you. Um, hello. Um, my name is Kevin Shien. I'm with uh Greatland Realy Partners and um I'm also joined by Cara Must from uh Greatland and Katie Msceto from uh the Department
of um capital asset manage uh maintenance management and maintenance. Uh that's a mouthful. Uh the from the state of Massachusetts um and we have a short presentation to tell you a little bit more about the project. Um so again, Greatland um is
the owner um and um developer of the project will be acting as the landlord to um DAM which is as an agency of Massachusetts will be the tenant um in the building and then the user agency um
is the state police crime lab. So that's sort of the different players. Um if you go to the next slide um please this is just a quick overview of of Greatland. We've been in front of the council
before um in the past. We've um been um invested in the city of Marboro um for about 5 years um with our uh property at the campus. Um our our larger portfolio is about 2 million square feet in the in the greater Boston area of um commercial
properties both um office and lab buildings. Um and uh you know we're proud that um we're very focused on um you know being a customer focused um you know owner and developer and and um you
know to some of the larger public companies here in Massachusetts including Logic and and BJ's um here locally and and are excited about this opportunity to work with the state. Go to the next slide please. the um so for
anyone that doesn't know the the campus um is is located um here in Marboro on um on the west side of town. It's very um accessible to the highways 495 and and near Route 20.
Um if you go to the next slide, the this shows an aerial view of the existing campus. So, um, the buildings that you see with the white roofs in the middle of the oval are it's
an existing 500,000 ft, um, office, which is is the headquarters again for Hologic and and BJS. And we we have a few other clients, um, in occupancy as well. And then you can see outlined in red to the north side of the site um, is
is the proposed site of the new the new state crime lab. Um and Martin Angelo Drive is the road that cut cuts in between the existing campus building and the new development. Um you go to the next
slide, we have a site plan. So this is looking down on the site. Um just sort of a very preliminary plan um that shows the access off of Martin Angelo Drive and um the layout of the building and
the and the parking on the site. Um and so as um the counselor said in the introduction, it's it's uh approximately 200,000 square ft. It's uh the a fourstory building. We're going through
the design process now in conjunction with um DAM and the state police. Um we've got more detailed site plans. Um, in fact, we met with um the city site plan review committee last week um just for on a preliminary basis um to review
progress with them. And um we are here tonight to present the tip agreement. Um and um we're hoping to get that approved and then going forward our schedule would be to complete um
design and permitting of the project um by the end of this year. start construction early next year um with the goal of having the crime lab open and operating at the site um in early um 2028. So, thank you. Thank you for the
introduction. I will open that to the finance team or any other counselors if they had any questions. Uh Councelor Brown. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for coming and presenting with us today. Um,
I was really excited um when I initially saw this um proposed state crime lab coming into the city and um when I first saw the tiff agreement I said oh you know a state it all makes sense you know
um you will be leasing the property to the state and so that's why the um the tiff agreement would come into play. Um, I see that there would be 300 jobs added to the city, 250 of
them relocated, but then over the course of the tiff agreement, 50 new jobs would be created. Um, I absolutely see um the investment that you'd have in the city.
And so for the tiff agreement, I am in support. I I appreciate you bringing this into the city. Thank Thank you, Council. Good points. Uh I'm in strong support of this. It's a vacant lot you'll be building. Um that would be new growth for the city. Um any talk of
designing the building for any parking garage or anything like that that you know of? Uh well, this building is designed to have uh surface parking that you can see on the site plan. Um for future further
development on the site, we did do a parking garage in conjunction with the long-term lease to BJs. BJ's Exactly. Um because they had like uh extra parking needs. Yes. Um and so we and we do have the ability to do that for future
development elsewhere on the site if needed. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Uh council. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you all for being here. If you were here on let's see it's Monday night you would realize our city
is in financial crisis. We have seen increases. Mr. Chairman that that is a blatantly false statement. I didn't hear it. We are not in a financial crisis. Mr. Chair, I was on May I continue? I wanted to introduce them to the city's
finances. We just had our budget meeting on Monday and indeed we see our health insurance is going up. We see the schools in need, both our technical school and our high school. So with that said, it's difficult. Now, I represent
the residents and businesses to tell our residents, I'm going to offer as a city councelor a tiff for 20 years. That's a long time. It's asking for a lot of reductions. I can't support 20 years. And following tiffs in the future, if we
are in this type of situation with our finances, I will have issues with tiffs. Now, I don't want to interrupt up your council uh or I know Meredith can maybe touch base on this is also a little different because it's it's it's a lowrisk no risk for the city because
this is part of the this whole state process of of having them understand tips. They're getting 100% reduction in taxes the first year, 100% the second year. Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. I understand tips. Uh what I'm asking is would they consider a reduction in the
years? That was my question. I was trying to preface it with the issues going on and that is my question. No. And I I think that's this was drawn up with this language by the state of Massachusetts because they're trying to uh you know uh bring in businesses to
communities and and Mr. Chair, we just heard and thank you. We have great access here. We have water and sewer. We are a hot spot in Massachusetts and I'm concerned that if we're not starting to look at these and maybe look at a
reduction then I can't support it. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Council Councelor Brown. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um I correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe um that councelor Orum might be mistaken about how TIP agreements um
work for the city. Um in my understanding, the city will not lose any tax revenue that we would be getting. Like they're not getting a free ride for 2 years of no taxes. We would
still be receiving what we would get had they not done the project, but they would be investing $200 million into this site. And so that $200 million that they're going to
improve the site by is what they are going to receive the the tiff agreement upon. So, they're not going to be paying zero taxes, but on that $200 million improvement and any, you know, any type
of value that this property then takes on because of that $200 or $200 million improvement, that is what the TIF agreement is on. And so incrementally over the course of the tiff agreement
they will pay incrementally more and more on that increased value. So I just wanted to make sure that um the way I understand it is correct. Thank you. Just would like to respond to that. That's that's understandable. That's new
growth. That's going to help us out. Absolutely. Again, we're and we're the star on the map. I hate to say this to someone from Massachusetts, but we are. We have the access. We have valuable property. And yes, we're going to get
new growth, 200 million. But again, other businesses may come in and say, "Well, they got an exemption. Why shouldn't we?" It could create, especially now with our finances as they are. It could create an issue. And what I would say is ask at least ask if
they're willing to negotiate to a 10-year versus a 20-year. And and I I do want to reiterate what President Osley said. Our finances are are well uh $60 million uh uh to the levy limit. We're in great shape compared to other
communities. So I don't want to No. And I don't want to send that message. I just want to send the message that we sent out on Monday. We can expect taxes to go up for our residents. We definitely and our businesses from what we discussed on Monday with our budget. You're not part of it. Apologize, but we
have got to make sure we watch our finances. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Vio thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for uh coming to our fine city, but I suspect you've already done some negotiating with Miss Harris and her staff and and other folks from from
Marboro. So, the negotiations is has already uh I suspect has already gone on for a few minutes, if not a couple hours. Um, this is this is such a we're the envy of of You're right, Mr.
Dorm. We're the envy of of the area and we're at the envy of the area because we're able to attract amazing projects like this one to come into our town. I am not just um willing to to vote the
affirmative on this. I want to stand on my desk and and clap and welcome them to our city. Um thank you very much for thinking about us. Thank you, Matt. Mr. Chair, Councelor Filla. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Um I would echo councelor Brown's points earlier and I'm also in full support of this project. One thing that I think often gets overlooked when we're looking at a tiff um is some of the building permits that go into something like this, a $200 million investment and that goes right into our local receipts which
helps pay for our budget. So even at the most minimal level, right? these building permits that you guys will have to take out to construct this kind of thing goes into paying for the city budget, which I think is just another example on top of council Brown's explanation of the actual tiff agreement um to support something like this
because it does create that economic growth um in in and helps our city in every sense financially um to grow and become, you know, a stronger city. So, I'm in full support and I I appreciate your time. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good points, Council Fel Council Ducet. Thank
you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you folks for bringing this opportunity to the city. Um, you know, we we've gone through a couple of tips already this year, but I think that, um, this one in particular, because it's involved with the state police and the state function, um, for it to be stretched out to 20
years, uh, is equates to this being a very exceptional project. So, I I think because of that, I'm fine with this. If someone's saying, well, why are you doing the TIFF for this business? It's like, it's the state police. I mean, seriously, it's a good re, you know, it
helps with the community overall. It helps with the state overall. It it it becomes a marquee location for anyone involved in law enforcement in the state to have these guys come here. And at the end of the day, with all the money they're spending, we're start getting it back at the back end anyway. You know, 5
years later, we're down to 85, you know, real estate exemption percentage is 85%. So, we're starting to build up some run rate that gets lower and lower over time. So, um I I think that this is uh a great opportunity for the city. I think that um the tiff why exceptional makes
sense in this case. So, I have no problems with that. Um my question is really about renewable energy, solar, geothermal. Um you know, this is this is a large operational building that's being built state-of-the-art. How are you going to reduce your carbon
footprint? And I you don't not necessarily need the answer now, but I think we need to do something as far as conditions go with this to say something about you know do do what is possible to address the car reduce the carbon emissions of the facility which solar
panels geothermal. What are you doing for heat? You know this is a state building. I get that. But there's a lot of the buildings around here that aren't using natural gas anymore. New construction. Are you guys going to do that? I mean you're in construction now. So, I don't know if you have that answer
yet, but Well, we can respond. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Kevin. Yeah. And we can respond to some of the other comments as well, but um on the sustainability part of it, I mean, it is it was part of the RFP process that we went through um with the
state um uh to review the sustainability aspects of the building. Um so, to mention a few, the building will be lead silver, so it would be a lead rated building. Um we are planning uh to install uh solar panels um in a portion
of the um site as well. Um and and we're pursuing you know the uh basic you know energy efficient um you know equipment and and um low flow um fixtures to conserve water. Um the building is a lab
building. Uh so it is it does require natural gas to operate you know at on an efficient basis. Um so it it will have gas but that's sort of typical of even the um some of the more sustainable lab buildings that you know we've developed
in the in the area. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Council uh council vio. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to make a motion that this committee uh accept order number 251
9410 for communication from the mayor to support this tiff. Yes. And what we'd be doing is the motion would be to uh approve the tiff agreement and to approve the city council resolution. That is my motion, Mr. Chair. I will I will I will second that motion has been
made and seconded to approve order number 25-1009410 a proposed tax increment financing agreement uh with TCAM uh great uh great land reality partners in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts for the proposed construction and leasing of
a new crime laboratory for Massachusetts state police at 100 Martin Angelo Drive. Any further discussion? Council, thank you. uh just in case you decide to suspend on Monday to vote this out, I won't be here. So, I do want to state my
support for the tiff um and thank greatland and congratulate them on winning the RFP and bringing this great project to the city. Thank you. Thank you. Well, well stated, council council. And Mr. Chair, I don't want to in any way feel that they're being treated
differently. I've asked other companies that have come in tomorrow to look at a reduction in the amount of years. Yeah, it's a great project, but there's going to be other projects that are great projects. And when's this going to end? You know, I would suggest that the answer wasn't
given. It sounds like I might be outnumbered, but again, at least I'm making the effort to ask, would they be willing to reduce the amount of years? 20 years is a long time. It's a great investment. I'm looking at our financial situation. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Motion.
Motion has been made and seconded to approve. All in favor? 1 2 3 4. All opposed. It carries. 4 to one. Thank you. Thank you for your time and welcome to the city of Mroom. Thank you. Next up is uh order number uh
25-1009404. Uh communication from the mayor, a grant acceptance for various projects outlined in the mayor's letter as part of the fiscal year 2025 state budget airmark funding. Good, good evening, commissioner. Good to see you once again. And um I will uh I'll just
begin by reading the u the supplemental documentation that the mayor had sent to us. Uh dear council president Oing and councils and close for your review uh three letters and two estimates related to the fiscal year 2025 earmarks for the
city vehicle and the proposed pavilion at Galoney Park. Uh the first letter from Representative Daniel uh W. Gregoire addresses the airmarked funds uh for an outreach vehicle and clarifies that it its use will not be limited to a
single department. Uh the second letter from building commissioner Tin Twe outlines the request for vehicles for the building department and inspectional services. Uh he explained the need to uh due to current shortages and notes that uh while these vehicles were initially
proposed for capital spending uh the request was moved to the FY2026 airmarks which were not funded. Uh our fleet department has uh identified a 2025 Ford Explorer uh available on the lot uh to meet this
need. Uh the total cost is $44,735 uh secure sec secured through the procurement process to expedite fulfillment. Uh the third letter from DPW Commissioner Ted Scott details how the airmark funding will be used for the pavilion at Goney Park along with
information about additional anticipated funding for the project. Please do not hesitate to contact uh me or my office with any questions. Sincerely, Jay Christian Dumismeir. Good evening, Commissioner. Good evening. Um, let's see. We'll probably start with the
pavilion question first. That was uh a grant of $35,000. Uh, the big question that evening when we when we did table it is uh the additional expenditures uh because this was a grant anticipating what the city had to pay. Uh I believe
you did clarify it in here using the revolving funds from the rec, but I'll let you uh uh give a little bit of review. Yeah, that's pretty much it. um the earmark was put in, it wasn't for the full amount. Um the anticipation what we we would do is because we have
to have the funds expended by the end of June. So we're on a time crunch on that. We use that for the materials of the super structure facilities um could build that. Um initially we we got a price of 300,000 for the pavilion
when the recck department put it out and we rejected that. So I think it's it's more appropriate the facilities department especially we have a um seasonal worker and if you've seen the bin bin stairs you've seen the what what he can do. Yes. Um we we do that portion
and then um the con we would uh form but the actual placing of the concrete and the finishing of the concrete would have to be done by a vendor and for that funding uh we'd go to the revolving account. uh and we have plenty of uh
excess in that to to use that. So do that. Okay. Thank you. I will open that up to any committee members. Council B. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I um I mentioned this in the past uh at our last time we discussed this
topic. Um the following Sunday after that discussion um my team and I about 50 50 young adults were down cleaning Galoney Park on a cold Sunday morning. Um they were they were picking up trash
and they were widening trails. And I and I bring this up because all of a sudden the weather changed and we started getting rain and there was there was lightning and I and probably 80% of the kids had no place to go because the parents didn't they they
just dropped the kids off. So now they were at Galoney Park and with with lightning above and there's no place in Galoney Park for anyone to go to get safety. This is just not my something on a whim. This was something that I lived just two Sundays ago. So I'm I'm
strongly in favor of this project. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Council Vital. Council Orum. Mr. Chair, I concur with councelor Vital. Um involved with camps through the years that was always an issue outside camps, summer camps is not having shelter. So
this is an easy one. I don't see why we shouldn't just be approving it. I would motion to approve. MO motion has been motion has been made and I will second that uh to approve the uh FY2025 state budget airmark grant funding uh for the uh pavilion at Colon
Park uh for $35,000. Any further discussion? Councelor Ruby. Thank you. I apologize. I don't know if this was discussed. Where is the pavilion going at the park? um where the near the wreck building where the volleyball court is in that area in place of the court or next to
the court. It it may be we may move it. We have we haven't determined that yet but in that area. Okay. Thank you. And and I guess I would say I'm not on the committee but I would support I think having a pavilion there is a great idea. Thank thank you councelor Ro. Any
further discussion? Councelor Preiier. Hi. Uh thank you Mr. Chair. Um, will you be working with conservation with I I know they have an open space plan. Um, is this in in part um to coincide with that or or um just something that you
guys need for now? Um, I don't know how in fact that we wouldn't be taking any we wouldn't be going into any area that's not currently utilized. If that's what you mean. We'd be we'd be taking the area that's
currently being used by the park. We wouldn't be um encroaching anywhere. Gotcha. It it was my understanding that um conservation had some plans to update and upgrade the parks. I didn't know if this was part of of that process. I'm not aware of what particularly they
have in mind for that, but um it probably is. Thank you, Council. No further discussion. Uh, all in favor? It carries. 5 to zero. Next up, Mr. Commissioner, if you can help us on this next one. Thank you. Uh, next up is the
uh Airmark grant for $50,000 uh for a vehicle. I did read the uh letter from uh State Representative Gregoire that it can be used uh for any other department. Um the the the big question I had um as I didn't we did
table this I didn't support it because I didn't want to have another vehicle in the fleet that you'd have to do maintenance and then 10 years from now we're going to own it in that budget line item. Um so that's why I didn't wanted to have it in the mayor's budget. Um but I know uh commissioner had
mentioned it. Um he also mentioned that he was already looking at the Ford Maverick hybrids. So the question is that would have been perfect timing to get that vehicle now that we're he he needs it. That's where his preference
is. So So he initially so his vehicles have been on as you know with vehicles we see we see the deterioration coming and at some point the deterioration is so bad our fleet department has to decommission them. They're no longer safe for the road. So we could see this
coming. He uh I I can't speak for what he says, but I know he we've had discussions with him. We we know their vehicles are in tough shape and they he did put in a while back because these Mavericks, I believe, were part of a a state bid at one time and they didn't
pick them up. So, they are available. I I'm not sure if they're available anymore. That was my next question because it is by state bid. And what what's available? because we picked up a couple Mavericks ourselves. Um when we were um when we put in for equipment the
the previous year for capital, we found these uh and and then uh pivoted and got those instead for certain for like engineering uh that that doesn't need a bigger truck. So we we grabbed a couple of those uh for this earark. They're
basically you're you're at the end of the you're at the end of the road on the on the current year of vehicles. So there's not much and remember we still have to follow procurement. We have to follow people that are uh dealerships I should say that are involved in certain
um group bids like state bids. So we can't just go down the street and buy a vehicle. Um we could it would just take a lot longer. Uh, so when we went out and this ear came, we we went out to the deal to see what they had. This is pretty much it, the
Explorer, and it's not a hybrid. So, we've we've been putting a hold on it. Um, and he calls us probably every other day saying, "Are you going to buy this or am I going to?" So, we we're he's being patient and uh hopefully we can get this through cuz that's if we're
going to have the earmark, we got to take delivery of it and pay for it by the end of June. So, I mean, that's by the end, which makes sense. I would I would appreciate if on these ear if we could get a suspension of the rules so that we could move forward on that if
possible. And and obviously, you're more the expert. Um, his office would be fine getting the Ford Explorer. You're fine with the Ford Explorer? Yep. Okay. So, and and just to clarify, this would not be an extra vehicle. He he needs several. So, he'd probably be utilizing
it the most unless someone like Priscilla or someone wanted to use it for the day or or they'd all coordinate it. Yep. Cuz you're going to building sites. It could be snow, whatever. I I fully understand that. So, yes, Council Roby. Thank you,
Mr. Chair. Um, again, I wasn't at the meeting when this was tabled, but I take it that the issue was the the language of that it was supposed to go for an outreach vehicle for marble to be used as a mobile town hall. Yes. So, clearly this is now not going to be a mobile
town hall. It's going to be a vehicle for use by the building department. I think the intent from the mayor is it could be, but that's not its main intent. It's main intended to be used by city hall. If if for some event they want to utilize it, they could, but
that's not its main use. It's not going to sit there waiting for an event. We we we especially the building department needs vehicles, so they'd be utilizing it on a dayto-day. That's someone had a need for it, they could take it. Yeah. Okay. Cuz I know like years ago, years ago, they had a vehicle and it was even
used by the veterans agent and other inspectional services. And I'm fine with that. I just was like councelor Roby said, I just didn't want to focus it into one department. Councelor Ducet. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Um, just a historical question. I know for a couple
years ago, you got a bunch of Nissan Leaves. How did they fair over time? Excellent. You still have Are they still working in operation? Crystal Frenia, our assistant commissioner, drives one every day. Okay. Hardly any maintenance. So, the
hybrids, the hybrids are a challenge. They're just like on the cruiser. They're they're a challenge to maintain. They're a challenge. But the electric vehicles, there's there's like no maintenance whatsoever. So, why don't we get more of them? What's that? Why can't we get more of them? We can. Okay. It's
just I mean, you're talking about city vehicles. A lot of DP You have to be careful in DPW vehicles. Um, you know, um what brands have EVs? We were, it was promising when they came out with the the Ford electric vehicles, trucks,
pickup trucks, and we'll have to see when we go back out if those those are available and what their cost is, but yeah, but when they're snow fighting, it still hasn't been proven that they're the best when you're when you're splashing salt on the Yeah, I don't know
if that's the best use of battery operated vehicles. So, well, that that case, but it's for building inspection, stuff like that. Absolutely. around town. You don't need to go far. Perfect. That's, you know, that seems to been, you know, there there seems to be a lot
more out there. In fact, I just read an article that General Motors has more electric vehicles now than Ford. Both of them have more than Tesla now just because they're such a big bigger businesses. Um, so I, you know, my my only comment cuz it it looks like which
which vehicle is still up in the air. So, I would at least recommend for you guys to look and see what can be picked up in electrical for a similar price. And just so you know, the Nissan's been around for a while. That's why we went with them. So, uh they're are proven. You're not getting the first one off the
lot in a Ford or a GM. So, right, but the Chevy Bolts been around for a while, you know, now at at this point. Now, there's other ones, too. So, you know, and they're all pretty, you know, and you know, for Ford's got the Lightning and the Mustang, so not that you want
you guys to drive around a Mustang, but thank you. I appreciate that, Council, Mr. Chair. Thank you. And I I was going to ask pretty close to what Councelor Ducet just asked is I hope I know you're in a rush. I know you got something available. Uh, but I hope as
we move along, we'll look at electric vehicles. Uh, I understand what you're saying about hybrids. I had two that died on me. Um, when they go, they go. Uh, but as it relates to electric, I drove a Nissan Leaf myself for about 7 years and it was the first model and
never had any needs for maintenance, not even tires. U, but then again, it didn't go many miles, but maintenance- wise, they're excellent. So, I would support this um with the suspension based on the timeline, but I would ask in the future that we try to look at green vehicles,
uh electric vehicles, especially. That's the first thing I asked Steve Sonado was retired. I said, "What what do we have out there for electric vehicles?" He said, "Nothing." And then we could barely we barely had any vehicles at that point. And I'm sure the price will be a little bit more. I know the Ford
electric trucks are up to 9800, I believe. But you're you're in a situation where you have limited time, you have something available. But in the in the long run, I would hope that we try to stick to renewable green energy. We have the electric stations for charging and as the prices go down,
especially so Mr. Chair, I would recommend if it hasn't been motioned, recommend approval with a suspension. So with the suspension, so I would um I would recommend uh because I do support the uh the $50,000. I'd recommend uh not be not be limited to a single
department. Okay, that's your that your motion. I will I will second that motion has been made and second it to approve the fiscal year 202025 state budget airmark grant funding uh in the amount of
$50,000 uh not to be limited to a single department. Any further discussion? All in favor? That carries 5 to zero. Thank you. Okay, next up, next up is uh order number
25-1009412 uh communication from the mayor proposed amendment to the city code uh chapter 125 personnel section 6 salary schedule uh relative to various leadership positions in the department of public works including the head treatment plant
operator General Foreman man, head mechanic and assistant city engineer. Um, I'll read the letter that was submitted uh submitted by the mayor uh honorable president Oing and councilors and closed for your review and approval is a memorandum from Ted Scott uh
department of public works uh commissioner regarding succession planning and proposed salary schedules. Uh last m March, Ted Scott submitted a memo outlining succession planning uh which provided for the first half of reorganiz reorganizing the department of
public works. Uh the attached report and memorandum uh from TED provides crucial insights into the department's current operating status. Three of these positions are currently unfilled and the city has recognized the need to raise salaries in order to attract and retain
skilled leadership and ensure long-term uh employment. Uh if you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me. Sincerely, Jay Christian Dumismeir. Good evening again, Commissioner. Now, it's is commissioner. So, congratulations.
Uh thank you. Um, so I don't know the org chart, our or new org chart has been distributed a couple times. Just this is a little bit DPW is kind of a enigma h how are things set up? So there's the the commissioner level, the assistant
commissioner, city engineer, capital projects manager is the next tier. Then the next tier is the general foreman level. In that level, you'll you have the assistant city engineer. um the the fleet general for Foreman's
called the superintendent of automotive for whatever reason and then you have the two head or chief treatment plant operators uh that run the easterly and westerly treatment plant. So that's that's how the the hierarchy goes. Just to kind of clarify that uh these
positions are are critical and um if if anybody who took the the the councilors that did take the tour could see how those head treatment plan operators what they're responsible for. It's it's a critical thing. uh particularly with
with that um they get calls almost on a weekly basis for private um firms trying to headunt them um and their licenses are in quite in demand. uh besides them, the other general foreman's uh their
salary and they're still required to um be there on emergency basis, whether it's a water break, whether it's snow and ice, um whether it's a treatment plant problem, um if anybody wanted to go to the household hazardous waste day
last u uh weekend where it was pouring, I was at that and the head treatment plant operator showed up because he had to look to see how the how the plant was fairing with all that runoff going on. So they they're it's always on their
mind. So that and the fact that since its inception we've increased the um the duties they're required to do procurement which is not an easy thing. They do the accounting system in munis. Uh so in the past it's been more of a
retirement vehicle for for union members to move up and just pad their salary. Now that's not the expectation. And we've had our the succession plan that was submitted over a year ago. Had the first two tiers and and moved up and uh
you know the DBW thanks you for your support in that. This is the final piece. And when you look at succession planning, we need to fill three positions. And the foremen that will move up into these positions already
make more than the general foreman with their with their added benefits. So it's very tough to to move them up into that. Um so that being said and and that's how uh that's how compensation classification study you look external
and you look internal doesn't do us any good if you can't move up internally. So that's that's the main reason it was in the succession plan and we do want to hire from within the people we know who they are that can give value to the city. I should just clarify so the
salary schedule would be if if approved would become active July 1st. So it would be in the next fiscal year. So that salary you're approving is in the next fiscal year. So it wouldn't have the 3% that they're having now or the 3%. So basically it would be the first
step and it's a four step would be uh from if people are in the top step to the next step would be like a 2% rate a little under a 2% raise but then they would have the opportunity to go those three additional steps. Um, I I hope that if anybody has any questions about
that, I can try to clarify it. But that's that's basically it. Okay. Thank you, Commissioner. Councelor Orman, Mr. Commissioner, you did your homework. I was just curious when you were doing all this research, and I'm happy you did it. Um, did you consult with uh
Christine Purple at all on any of these rates? She wasn't she wasn't um I don't she wasn't on board when I was doing this. So, so this, you know, we're trying to look at the entire city. I I started I started this before the our new mayor. You were ahead of the curve.
The council this this took a lot of manh hours. This isn't something. So, I can tell and I did I did look at um past reports compensation and classification studies. So, I've gone through their methodology and in and looking at this and and just seeing the need um that we
need to have a succession plan. you the DPW is critical to have people and and if you look behind us that's that's the future of the DPW right there. I agree. So the city the city can rest easy when you see that. So when I'm gone you don't
have to worry. Not that I'm great but Yeah. No, it's we hope you're not going to go too soon now, Mr. Commissioner. No, that's I just they're trying to well I've been asking to look at the entire city not just for succession planning but for what we're offering and are we
attracting people? So, but again I commend you for this and I support it and that was my question Mr. Chair and I know there are some communities that are trying to do catchup with this succession planning uh in place because a lot of things kind of fall through the cracks when a a lead department head or
commissioner will leave to start another position. So, it's something that I do fully support. Uh, Councelor Brown. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Commissioner Scott. Um, I know for myself and maybe some others, this is something that we have been waiting for
for a while and been looking forward to seeing the results of. And, um, I I know how much work you have put into this. And a couple of the items that um that stood out for me is and you kind of brushed upon this is these positions
were require availability for emergency response during off hours including nights, weekends and holidays as you mentioned when you were at the hazardous waste event and somebody had to come and check on a weather event. Um and then you had also noted that given that two
general form and tier positions are now officially vacant with a third impending vacancy expected in the matter of weeks that's now vacant since since I took the commission position that's vacant now this this was um this was in March and
you did mention three positions. Yep. Um, and so the the most important part to me is that implementing a competitive salary schedule is essential to attracting and retaining skilled leadership. And so um I I do recognize
that in the rate or um the assistant commissioner facilities position was eliminated. So um one of the upper management positions is now gone. and the way that things seem to be um
delegated, it makes sense. And I know how much time you took and put into this. So, with everything I've read and everything um presented, I do support
this and I would make a motion um to approve the proposed amendments to the salary schedule. Motion has been made and I will uh second that to approve order number 25-1009412 uh communication for the mayor with a proposed amendment to city code chapter
125 personnel section 6 salary schedule relative to various leadership positions in the department of public works head treatment plant operator general foreman head mechanic and assistant city engineer uh any further discussion president
thank you Mr. chair. So again, effective 71 and so all these positions would cuz some of these guys aren't on step two aren't on step three. Are they all going to start? They all start at step one. Thank you very much. Thank councelor Dette because I apologize to you early.
Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Commissioner Scott, it's so good to say that you know after all all this time. Um I think that the su section succession plan is critical to maintain the institutional knowledge of this community. Uh this corner here that
includes you too Meredith is some of the strongest institutional knowledge brain trust that we have in the city and compliment to you guys for the work you guys do. Um and I think that as far as pay schedule goes this is reasonable. I think there is going to be a salary
analysis that can be done separate from this. We'll see how the bubble goes and work on it from this, but I'm completely in support of this and thank you for catching up to Thank you, Council Jet. Well said. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Commissioner, for being here. Um, thank you for doing your homework and
and I really appreciate you coming here with all these figures. Um, I'm fully in support of this. I think we should be paying our employees a competitive wage so we can keep them and retain them in our city, especially following the succession plan. And if we lose an employee, right, we we're down that
succession plan. So, um, very vital that we keep these people in play and and, um, again, I appreciate the work that everyone does. Um, I was one of the counselors that did tour the treatment plants and and I see I I recognize how vital those treatment plants are. Um,
especially the people that work them. Um, without that knowledge, you know, we would be in a lot of trouble almost daily, right? But, uh, thank you for coming in. Thank you. You have a good, councelor Roby. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am also in support of all of this. I I
think from the discussion when we did the budget, though, there's still a missing piece from the mayor for a job description for the assistant city engineer. That was for the deputy chief. Was that the assistant city engineer was submitted uh last budget cycle? Okay.
So, it's with the full with the succession plan and it's a position in the budget. Excuse me. It's currently it is not in the budget. I'll I'll absorb I It's probably about 40 to 50. I'll I'll
have I'll absorb that in my budget. You'll absorb. So, point of information, I think if I understood you correct, council Robie, you were asking about a job description for the assistant city engineer that was already done last year. The position wasn't in the budget last year and it showed up this year.
That was my concern. This is how come we're adding a position, but the job description and the salary ordinance for that for the assistant city engineer is in place. Thank you. Councelor or Chairman Irish is referring to is the deputy police commissioner. We don't
have a salary ordinance and we have a job description via email. None of which have been formally submitted to the council for the council to act on. Okay. Thank you for the clarification and reminder of which is witches. That was a lot of budget discussion. Absolutely.
Thank you, council. Any further discussion? All in favor? It carries 5 to zero. Thank you, commissioner. Thank you so much. Thank you, councils, for your support. Mr. Chairman, if we're done without business, I would motion to adjurnn. Motion's made and seconded to adjourn.
All in favor? It carries. We adjourn at 7:42 p.m. Thank you.