--------- worked well for me for the first 60. I think I'm going to I'm going to run it out. >> Good morning and welcome to our November 18th, 2025 board of county commission meeting. We're delighted that you've joined us this morning. Please join us for a moment of silence followed by the pledge of allegiance which is going to
be led by Ashley Western who is from the U. She's a from the marine office. Good morning. >> Thank you. Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Would you like to tell us a bit about your service? >> Yes. >> Uh, good morning everyone. My name is Ashley Western. I served in the United
States Marine Corps for four years between 2012 and 2016. Um I was stationed in Camp Fuji, Japan for one year and the rest of my three years I served on Camp Pendleton, California. >> Now I have the pleasure of serving
Martin County veterans um as a ser veteran service officer. >> Thank you very much. Happy Marine birthday. [applause] >> Thank you. Uh let's see the uh agenda today will include two additional cons two additional items. One is consent nine
which is request approval of renewal addendum to fiber exchange and reciprocal license agreement with blue stream communications and department 5 is approve a contract with Miss Elise Elder for the position of uh county attorney and we are requesting to
withdraw public hearing number three. Is there a motion to approve the agenda? I'll move approval of the agenda with the additional items consent number nine department tool five and withdrawing PH3. >> Second. >> There's a motion and a second. All those
in favor? I opposed. That motion passes unanimously. >> Uh the first proclamation is a proclamation uh from Florida Power and Light and Marshall is here to make a presentation to the commissioners. Good morning.
>> Good morning. Shall I speak first? >> Yeah, >> sure. >> Good morning, everybody. >> Morning, >> chair, commission, staff. Uh, this is special year for Florida Power and Light. We're celebrating our 100th anniversary as a company and I thought
it would be nice since Martin County is also celebrating its centennial that we would uh memorialize the occasion. Um, the truth is we didn't start providing power in 1925 to Martin County. Um, the guy who had my job in 1925,
>> Nick Blunt. >> Nick Blunt, you might know him. Um, he came up by train from Miami and said, "Let me sell you electricity." And Martin County said, "You know, no, we we we like fire pits and gas lamps." And
the truth is, we don't want to be like Miami. So, it wasn't until 1945 where we um were able to provide electricity. Um but I do think the relationship does go back to 1925 cuz we ran the ice plant at Melbourne and the ice would have to
come. Stuart would have to get ice from somewhere. So, I do think it's 100 years exactly. So, I won't take any more of your time. I know you got a busy agenda, but um it's my honor to present this to Martin County on behalf of FPL.
So fantastic. >> My photographer's out in the field today. >> Oh, [laughter] back to your roots. >> Yes. >> My pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you. [applause] [snorts] >> Our next proclamation is a proclamation
congratulating the Rio Civic Club upon the occasion of their 75th anniversary in Martin County, Florida. A group of 25 residents of Rio met on June 2nd, 1950 at the Rio Baptist Chapel and formed the Rio Civic Club for the purpose of
supporting community improvements. The club is noted for its long history of fundraising and volunteering efforts that have supported local parks, hospitals, law enforcement, youth programs, beautifification projects, and historic preservation. The club is continually committed to improving the community's amenities, environment, and
quality of life. The board congratulates the Rio Civic Club on their 75th anniversary and commends them for their community service. And here we have president of the Rio Civic Club, Jolen Jensen, along with a lot of her folks. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Congratulations.
>> Thank you so much. >> On behalf of the thousands of board members, volunteers, and business sponsors who have given their time, talent, and treasure to educate and assist Rio residents to improve
conditions in Rio. I accept this recognition. Since it was formed in 1950 in order to pave Dixie Highway, the Rio Civic Club has literally built the Rio Civic Center as a hub for the community
and spearheaded or participated in hundreds of programs and projects for the betterment of Rio. At your last meeting, the board of county commissioners approved the final site plan for Rio Marine Village and the preserve, a redevelopment project we
have been working toward for 20 years since hurricanes destroyed Rio's only waterfront restaurant. And we have just begun the planning for a replacement for the Rio Civic Center and enhanced streetscapes on Dixie Highway. As we
look back and forward, it is clear that none of this could have been accomplished without the cooperation and partnership with the Mount Martin County Board of County Commissioners and staff. So, we applaud you, too, and thank you
for sharing our vision for a revitalized Rio. We look forward to continuing to do good in the neighborhood for another 75 years. Thank you. >> [applause] >> We are we are we want you to come back every week.
[laughter] >> Yeah. Linda be in the picture. I want to get my own. [laughter] >> She's shooting with a camera. >> All right. >> Oh, she's >> She doesn't realize that's cool again. [sighs and gasps]
>> Thank you. Thank you so much. [applause] >> Now, do you need some motions on the next ones? >> Not yet. >> Not yet. One more. >> Yeah, >> one more. >> The next proclamation is a proclamation declaring Alzheimer's disease awareness in Martin County.
>> In the United States, there are over 7 7.2 million reported cases of Alzheimer's disease. And in Florida, approximately 580,000 people aged 65 and older are living with Alzheimer's. It is critical that Alzheimer's families coping with the disease are safe with well-being, dignity, and quality of life
preserved through services and resources accessible to all. The board urges the citizens of Martin County to learn more about Alzheimer's disease and attend educational events and seek out help and local drug trials during Alzheimer's disease awareness month. And here to accept from Alzheimer's Community Care,
we have David Franklin, president and CEO, and Janette Brumman, director of operations. >> Nice. >> I have lots of jokes for that, but I won't. We were formed 29 years ago because there were some caregivers that
recognized that the burden here, particularly in South Florida, on on caregivers is tremendous. The statistic at the time was if you were a caregiver caring for a spouse with Alzheimer's or related dementia, 75% of
the time the caregiver would actually pass away first. And so when we started 29 years ago, we went to caregivers and said, "What do you need? Where are the gaps? How can we come alongside you and help?" And that's what has evolved into our seven core
services here in Martin County throughout the Treasure Coast, St. Lucy, and Palm Beach as well. And we're just uh so thankful for your partnership these many years and for the recognition of this tremendous need.
your statistic of 580,000 in Florida is uh is accurate. And the thing is in the next 25 years, the estimation is that that number will triple. And that's just diagnosed cases, not those that don't get diagnosed or this
those that are suffering from other types of dementia as well. And so, thank you for this and uh thank you for your partnership to continue to serve the people and the citizens of Martin County. Thank you. [applause] >> Backwards on the sheep.
>> Arrows are weird. >> Yeah. Oh, one arrow goes up, one goes down. >> And I'm a little confused with this. Are we Are we supposed to to approve these first? >> They're not signed yet. So, we present them, but then we'll get those signed
proclamation to them after we sign them. No, you I will send them the sign. >> Okay. So, we will present them today though. >> Motion, please. >> Motion. >> Yes. I would make a motion that we adopt and present a proclamation celebrating 100 years of service by First Baptist
Church. >> And the next one, >> you want to do both at the same time? >> Sure. >> I would also make a motion to the same motion to adopt and present a proclamation declaring hospice and palative care month in Martin County, Florida. >> Second. There's a motion and a second.
All those in favor? I opposed. That motion passes unanimously. So, our next proclamation is a proclamation celebrating 100 years of service by the First Baptist Church in Martin County. First Baptist Church provides for the spiritual needs of its members and the
community and is celebrating 100 years of service. The church offers daycare and afterare services to students who attend the church school, provides for the need of children in vacation bible school, ministers to middle and high school youth, and provides youth group activities and provides AANA clubs for
children and caters to the needs of seniors. The board congratulates First Baptist Church on the occasion of their 100year anniversary of providing service to the Martin County community. And I don't know, uh, Donna K. Dubo is supposed to be here to accept, but I'm not sure I saw her come in. We will
accept on her behalf then and we'll mail it to her. >> Everyone's turning a hundred. [laughter] >> I think so. The next proclamation is a proclamation declaring hospice and paliotative care month in Martin County, Florida. As Medicare's first proven coordinated
care model, hospice offers person- centered compassionate care, ensuring people dignity, choice, and quality of life. Established in 1982, Treasure Coast Hospice is a nonprofit community organization of skilled professionals and dedicated volunteers whose mission
is to provide access to compassionate, caring, expert, and professional hospice and grief support services to parents and families at the end of life. In recognition of November as hospice and paliotative care month, the board encourages citizens to increase their understanding and awareness of care at the end of life and commends the
Treasure Coast Hospice team for their service to the residents of our county. And here to accept we have Shannon Cooper who is the chief operating officer of Treasure Coast Hospice and she's also RN MPH and CHPN. >> Hello. We're not 100 years old. >> No,
>> I mean we're over 40 which is not bad. Um, I just wanted to thank you all so much in receiving this proclamation on behalf of our board of directors, our volunteers, our more than 350 clinical staff that we have, including, um,
nurses, chaplain, social workers, uh, and grief bereavement counselors. We are so honored to serve members of our community. I'm not sure if you know about our organization, but we were started by volunteers and volunteers that were members of our
community that wanted to provide this end of life care to members of our community, their neighbors and their friends. So, we continue on that path of service and um I appreciate so much this proclamation. Thank you.
>> Thank you. [applause] Actually, you >> [snorts] >> That's fancy. >> Yeah, >> you can put it in your house by your meter. >> Okay, next up is
public comments. Uh the first request to speak form is I have is from Daniel Dingman. Is Mr. Dingman here? >> Okay. Second is Derek Powell. Oh, >> here he is.
>> Here comes Mr. Dingman followed by Derek Powell. >> If you're Derek Dingman. >> Daniel Dingman. >> Daniel. Sorry. >> I'm sorry. I I thought we weren't going to speak till 10:30. Sorry to keep you waiting. >> Oh, well, he might want to do the agenda item. >> Uh, shall I proceed?
>> Sure. >> Okay. Uh, my name is Daniel Dingaman, 116 South Souls Point Road. Um, uh, I'm new to the community. I moved here six months ago. I purchased a a lovely home right on the water. Um, I'm a real estate developer and a real estate
attorney. I've never um I've developed four shopping malls, condominiums, hotels, lots of subdivisions, lots of things all over the country. Never occurred to me that my sewage, my septic tank would somehow get backflow drainage
and the and the sewage would end up on the street. Uh that just didn't even occur to me that I would have to look at the the drainage system of a road in a place that's as pristine as SS and in the greater community. Everyone was telling me, "You got to move here. The waters, we love the waters. We love the
rivers. We really take care of things." So, you know, there's a drainage easement. There's a great great I wouldn't pull it up or go talk to the the county or the drain commissioner or anyone and say, "Geez, does it backfill? Do you have backflow preventers? Do you have enough capacity to handle the water
as it comes down the street?" And if it does come down the street and you don't have enough capacity, does it pool all over the street and cause everybody with a septic tank to have their sewage float to the top and then sit on the street? I mean, you know, the things I've recited that I developed, I'm trying to be
braggadocious. I'm trying to share with you that I have experience in this subject matter. And it's always how do you handle your groundwater? How do you handle your waste? What are you going to do with the vegetation? Don't cut the trees down unless you're going to replant them. That kind of thing. I've got sewage
on the street. Um there's a drainage easement down the side of my house. Goes right into the Indian River. There's sewage in the river. I would not swim in the river in front of my house. There's sewage in that. So, I'm just a small piece of this whole complicated
situation. I recognize that. But, uh concisely, my understanding is uh we're trying we our community is asking you for more grinder capacity. I know there's a limitation to it, but at the very least, these lowline properties need to have the capacity to hook up to
the sewer system. Otherwise, we're going to continue to see sewage on the street in our yards. All my landscaping shot, sewage in the river, uh guys fish in front of my house all day long. I'm not going to I'm not going to go in that
water. So, um, so I don't understand the nuances of the issues, but I I do believe that you have the capacity to award us the community more, um, uh, connections, more benefits. I would urge you to environmentally do the right thing um, and uh, allow that to occur.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. Derek Powell is next, followed by Julie Pusky. Morning, commissioners. >> Morning. >> Morning. >> Um, just want to give a shout out. It's my son's 14th birthday today. Happy birthday. >> Happy birthday,
>> surprise. This is your birthday party. [laughter] >> Um, yeah, I'm no stranger here. I just uh I missed a few meetings to uh some vacations and other things. So, I figured I'd come in and voice my concerns again. Um, good morning, commissioners. I'm here again because
the development behind my home and the developments all across our community are having real consequences on the people who already live here. My property floods now in ways that never did before. Trees were taken down with any proper accountability and drainage patterns are changed. [clears throat]
The traffic on Cove Road is a daily reminder that these decisions were made without any regard for the folks who call this place home. This isn't just happening to me. It's all around the state. I've seen um plenty of posts. Um the surrounding neighborhoods and feeling this the
surrounding neighborhoods are feeling the same pressure. We're seeing our quality of life chipped away one approval at a time. And for what? For the huge developers who will never have to live with the mess they leave behind. The truth is Florida's waking up. You can look across the state and see a
growing number of residents standing up fed up saying enough is enough with the absurd pace of development. People are tired of watching what makes their community special disappear in the rear view of a dump truck. So why don't we see more residents in these chambers speaking up? A lot of uh a lot of people
don't believe it matters. They they believe the decisions are already made and the support they need doesn't live in this room. And honestly, standing here, it's a little embarrassing to think that I uh was so naive. Every time we show
up, we hope this will be the day someone on that dis will take the side of a resident rather than the shrug and push forward with another project benefiting a corporation that doesn't care about Martin County once the check clears. All we want is leadership that values the folks who are invested here for the
long haul. The workers, the families, the kids who grow up playing on these streets, the people who pay the taxes and build the businesses that make the county more than a developer playground. So, I'm asking again for you to show the residents that you stand with us. Not with whoever can sub submit the biggest
sight plan. >> Not with whoever has the most attorneys at their table, but the families who lose another piece of the community every time a decision is made without us. That's all I have. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. [applause] >> Julie Pahusky is next, followed by Tom
Pine. Good morning. >> Good morning. >> My name is Julie Pahutsky and I'm here today to request the commission approve the additional grinder pumps to South Souls Point. As mentioned earlier, I also live in Riverview where it regularly floods with river water that
comes up from the storm drains. When the flooding resides, the what's left behind is muck, dirt, and torn up asphalt road. I'm frequently surprised that I live in such a beautiful peninsula community that where hundreds of septic systems leave our rivers vulnerable to septic
leeching from the fields. On behalf of the residents of Riverview Drive, Palm Road, and Oakwood Court, I'm presenting to you a petition requesting that you approve the needed grinder pumps to help keep our environment clean and healthy.
Thank you again for your support and help with our matter. it doesn't go unnoticed. And I don't know where do I give this? >> That gentleman right there. >> Thank you. Tom Pine is next, followed by Wanda Trouba.
>> Good morning, commissioners. My name is Tom Pine. I've been a resident of Martin County for over 50 years. This is one hard one. As I understand it, today will mark the first time in over two decades that spending of our tax dollars to consent in the consent
agenda will be made public. The expenditures of millions of our tax dollars will be in a lengthy and detailed report showing where our tax dollars are being spent and to whom the payments are being made to. Open government is the cornerstone of
democracy. It will be nice change in Martin County where the taxpayers will finally be able to see where our tax dollars are being spent and who benefits off our backs. While I don't support altering the service, the urban service boundary for
the wateride development west of Interstate 95 and Kenner Highway. I also don't support the fact that the ultra ridge can violate the urban service boundary in Martin County on a regular basis. because money rules in Martin County. Thank you for your time.
>> Thank you. Wanda Truba is next and then I have three more requests to speak for uh Jackie Thurlo Lipish. Would you like to speak on department 4 or now? >> I'll speak now. >> Okay. >> Good morning everyone. Thank you for
your service commissioners and thank you for having me here today. My name is Wanda Trouba and I'm a resident of Steuart West. Um, our property is out at 95 in Martin Highway. It's a beautiful equestrian property. About 13 years ago, my husband and I bought some property
there with the intention of building our retirement home in an equestrian center. [snorts] We did so about three and a half years ago. We have a multi-million dollar home and we love living in Martin County and our community. I'm a board
member of the Steuart West POA. As a board member, uh, a putt agreement change has been brought forward not by me as part of the board, but by an unrest board of which they are looking
to change our putt agreement to include domestic animals. Right now, everyone knows for the last 30 years, the county has already acknowledged that we are an equin center. We are an equin community.
Domestic animals include, if you look it up, uh chickens, goats, and other types of domestic animals that do not belong in our community. Across a small paved road is another community called
Cobblestone which is track homes and they too do not deserve uh a pud change. This pud change was orchestrated by two members of the board who no longer have uh abide on the board. They
have since resigned. It also was brought forward by a um a president of the board who has been recalled and three other board members who are in legal litigation on the election of their term
to the board by the director in Martin County as we speak. Domestic animals do not belong in our neighborhood for many reasons. They um they're they're foul. They require a lot of maintenance and upkeep.
They create a nuisance to the community of which our bylaws and our covenants do not allow nuisance. And it would really create an undue stress on the county to discipline these animals, including chickens, which is a main focus of a
small group of residents. The majority of the residents, 249 to be exact, in Steuart West, do not want this domestic animal rule. The domestic animal came to us by an Orlando attorney who read our
coveting documents and continue to find loopholes and is costing the community, costing our residents tens of thousands of dollars. I'll leave it in your hands. Thank you for listening and I hope you vote no on this putt amendment that's
pending. Thank you. >> Thank you. Jackie Thorough Lipish is next followed by Jeff Wittmann. >> Good morning and welcome. >> Good morning honorable chair and commissioners. It's great to be back in
the chamber today and uh I am here in support of Souls Point, the mayor and the residents of which I am one. Lived in Souls Point since I was 10. Um I live on Riverview Drive. I live at
18 Riverview. And I know you've heard the stories, but it's it's really hard to imagine what happens um on that road. and in other parts of Souls Point. Uh my husband used to live
at 22 South Souls Point Road and before we got married 20 years ago, I experienced it for the first time when the hurricanes came through, Francis and Jean. And there was sewage all over uh the the property and the road. And I
thought, gosh, that is just so disgusting. I cannot believe this. And then when I moved to Riverview, uh, we started having the King Tides in my opinion around 2012. I mean, they were
before then, but it's gotten more uh, since that time. And you can smell it. It's up to your knees almost. It is unsanitary. It is unhealthy for people, for uh the
environment, and it's just not the way we do business in the United States of America. Please help us. And if we need to help ourselves more, whatever that means, please, let's work that out. But
this must get fixed. Thank you so much. It's entirely in your hands. Thank you. >> Thank you. Jeff Wittmann is next. David Curtsman, would you like to speak on department 4 or now?
>> I'll speak now. >> Okay, [clears throat] >> good morning. >> Good morning, Commissioner. Jeff Whitman, Hope Sound. Um, the Ham Property, aka Hope Sound Scrub Preserve, is some of the most environmentally sensitive land in Martin County and
maybe even in the state. It has the second highest mountain, Mount Olympia in South Florida at about 83 feet above sea level. Uh the hope hope mountain is 86 feet above sea level. Native American mounds, plants and animals, plant sorry
plants found nowhere else in the world. The asinma tetram, the four-pedal pawpa. The 1.2 acres contiguous to the ham property is up for sale. It has been approved by Martin County to build four twostory town houses 27
2733 square feet each. For those who say this parcel is too small to be a sustainable environmental habitat. It is contiguous to the soap hopeound scrub preserve which is 45 acres. 18 acres were carved
out and given to smu which is contiguous to the hopesound national wildlife refuge. 356 [clears throat] acres which is contiguous to Jonathan Dickinson State Park. It would be a shamed to see It would be a shame to see this property developed.
It contains many plants designated as endangered by the state that the applicants consultant missed. Um Tencia is ultra ultraulada is is one of them that everybody missed.
I believe it is protected by the state. Um it also has two active gopher tortoise burrows which um is actually three now because commissioner caps found the third one. We could see their little footprints
going going in. So this this property should be bought and preserved by the county as part of the Hope Sound Scrub Preserve. And um thank you Commissioner Caps for walking the property with me. Um it is absolutely beautiful. Uh the
consultant for the applicant said there was no scrub habitat on the property. Um Native Plant Society came out and said there is scrub, quite a bit of scrub on the property. I estimate it to be about a third of the property is is scrub habitat. Um
there's there's a champion longleaf pine. It would take three of us to put our arms around it. that would have to be cut down and bulldozed for the entrance to the town homes. Uh, Hopetown Sound is changing so rapidly like Commissioner Cap said at
his uh initiation, we have to leave something for our children and our grandchildren and it would be and it would be a shame to see townous right next to the Hope Sunscr. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. David Kurtzman is next followed by Diane Kimes. Would you like
to speak now or on department 4? Pardon me now. >> Good morning. >> Good morning. David Kursman, mayor of SS Point. Uh um here to talk about the grinders as
well for Souls Point. Uh River Road and Palm Road. They've they have severe flooding as you've already heard. When we have the king tides come up, it goes up about as high as if probably you cover the first 10 homes going up the
road. And what happens, these leech fields are covered. I wasn't even a commissioner, but a few days when I got a call from one of the residents there, this is going back over seven years ago. And when I went on the property,
she showing there was actually a nice couple that was living there at the time. And they showed me, they go, "Don't walk on the grass." I go, "Why not?" They go, "See all that black muck? That's coming up from the leech fields and it's all the ways down the road."
And I took the time to get the whole tour. Then other neighbors came out. Uh before that happened, I only knew maybe one person that lived on Riverview Road. And by the time the first year was done, I knew almost
everybody lived on Riverview Road. And I share their heartache of what happened. When you move into a house, you [clears throat] don't expect it. And this isn't just Riverview. It's also Palm Road. It's also part of Kingston.
It's also um going down to Oakwood. You'll see these waters come up and then what happens is the waters start going down whether it's a king tide or heavy rains. If it rains like maybe 10 minutes hard, that whole
road once again it's flooded. The leechfields are covered and you're watching it looks like a sewer but it's an outfall. The water goes into the outfall right into it's the express lane into the Indian River Lagoon. And then if it doesn't go beyond there, it goes
straight through the properties that are across the street on SS Point Road into the Indian River Lagoon. If you look in the backyard, you'll see a black muck going into the river and in the river. Uh when it's hot out, you will see a green algae and it's some of the
nastiest things. And when you go there, when things start drying out, if you've ever smelled a septic tank, when the lid first comes off, that's what you smell when it gets really hot and it's right out there. And I could tell you where one of the neighbors that lives there.
They showed me, they moved it with like a shovel. This parts of this are inches thick of nothing but rural sewage that's just sitting there. And I'm sure fellow commissioners over there, I assure you, if that was any of your properties, you
would not accept that. And right now, if we have to wait for other grants to come in, it's going to be two, three years before this whole thing could be fixed. That means we're probably speaking millions of gallons of raw storage into the river, Indian River Lagoon. And we
all when we ran as commissioners at the time, we all basically said, "We're going to help the river no matter what. This is very important to that." And I could tell you right now, when you look at each and every one of their
lawns going several feet up, it's once again, you got that thick muck that's along there. And some people when they bought their homes had no idea of what they were buying when they bought these homes. And
uh forgive me, I'm just reading off a index card. Make sure I don't forget anything here. The people that live on these roads, they can't walk their dogs. They can't have their kids play walk in the front. When you go into your house, if you don't take your shoes off, you're
trailing sewage into your home. If you have a dog, your dog has to go out. It's a tough situation. Once again, the dog's paws are now loaded with raw sewage. If you have a cat, the cat wants to come in the house. You can't let the cat out anymore.
>> Um, is there if I speak a little bit more, please? Sure. >> Thank you so much. Just wrap up. >> All right. Um, we have another situation where there's a couple of people that have to go to work in the morning. What happens is when you have these king tides or the
heavy rains, they have to get a ride in with a usually a pickup truck or an SUV that has a higher reach. Otherwise, you're walking through once again the raw sewage to go before you go to work. That's the greeting. So they have to go
further up into the driveway because the small car will eventually have can't get through. Sometimes these waters could be up to three feet deep. I've witnessed it myself. And I'm encouraging the commission to please allow us the extra 134 grinders
that will cover all the lowlying roads. And when I see these people, I've literally witnessed people crying. It's that hurtful that they have to live through this and I appreciate your
concerns and thank you again. >> Thank you. [applause] >> Diane Kimes is next followed by James Trainer. [clears throat] >> Good morning commission. I have lived in
Martin County since 1994 u and in SS Point and um I'm here to urge you to consider expanding the number of gravity systems to include Riverview the low-lying areas um along the Indian
River Lagoon which is as you know it's known as a unique body of water biodiversity um estuary of national significance and Um it has been the residents as a resident
of Riverview and other low-lying areas. We have been subjected to interic water sitting on our roads and in our yards. Um the road beds have cracked and uh potholes and um you know it is a
combination of between king tides, sea level rise and since the hurricanes of Francis and Jean um it really has been untenable. Um uh our former mayor um our former excuse me our former town manager Michelle Burgerer had this the waters
tested and uh the numbers came back 160,000 to 175,000 parts per million and I don't know if you know what normal is but it is 160 to
170. So it is this water is full of poop. Um, I know of at least three cars that have gotten totaled as a result of the floodwaters on S South SS Point Road. Uh, including a former neighbor, um, who has since moved away, um, and
another with a realtor. Um, my personally my drain field was replaced in 19 in in 20 20 2011 2012, but I've been a vocal advocate for septic disorder ever since I moved next door to John Batty who was a longtime um
activist and um he served on many commissions um for the for the county of Martin County and um and he was the one that shared with me that there was a there was a a sewer pipe running down the road of SS Point. So,
there was always intention to have um sewers in this region. What [clears throat] we're asking for is is your partnership. Um, we're not asking you to pay for it, but we we're asking to give us to grant us the opportunity to expand the grinder systems so that we
can provide services that to replace this archaic septic that is polluting our streets and roadways and most importantly our Indian River Lagoon. Thank you so much. >> Thank you.
James Trainer is next and Mr. Trainer is the last request to speak format I have. If you would like to address us, please fill out a request to speak form and hand it to the baiff. >> Good morning, guys. Thank you all for every all your help. >> I'll be quick. You've got the gist of
everything so far. Uh, couple of things I would mention is when I walk down to the uh, community boat slip that we all share, the water walking into the boat slip, not even connected to anybody's house, stinks horribly like you're walking into a septic field. When I
bought my house two years ago, I was told by town engineers that it was already approved and I would be hooked up within a year. We had company this year. We had to put everybody in hotels. We couldn't even stay in the house because nothing worked for 3 days. We had 10 people in different hotels
because we just couldn't do anything about it. Uh, and then I guess the last question is, I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but why would we be concerned so much about High Point if it's so much higher? Is the problem equal up there to what we're having in the area we are?
Why would we go to High Point when the water problem would be, I would think, at the low point? So, that's about it. Thank you guys. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Would [applause] anyone else like to speak to us? In that case, we will go to commissioner
comments. Commissioner Vargas, >> I had several people um reach out to me um [clears throat] and I think I want to address uh Mr. Pine's um concerns uh that we are approving uh enormous
amounts of monies every uh board meeting. Um I did speak with our county administrator about that who has uh assured me that this has already been approved in the CIP. This is not
something on the fly that's additional. Uh I am all for transparency and hopefully this might um satisfy uh the concerns that you have. I'm also a taxpaying citizen of Martin County also.
So um I just want to address that um I am not deaf to what is the comments are in this room or those that reach out to me after the fact or approach me on the street. I'm available. That's my job. Thank you.
Commissioner Caps, >> we had a public speaker just a little bit ago named Jeff Wittmann who was very instrumental in securing a large piece of preservation property and Hob Sound uh called the Hobound Scrub Preserve or
the formerly known as the Ham Property and he played a big role in that uh securing of that land and uh I just want to thank him for all that he did. And he called me a little while back and
we went over and looked at another little parcel that borders Dixie Highway uh just as you're going into the Hobound Shrub Preserve parking lot. It's a a small parcel to the north there that
could end up being developed with town houses. The parcel is backs up right to the entrance to the Hobound Scrub Preserve right there by the exercise equipment. I think it would be really inappropriate to have
townouses right there. And I would love to see our board make it a priority to try to secure that parcel of land. Uh we walked the property and found three gopher uh tortoise burrows and and Mr. Whitman
mentioned this gigantic pine tree that would be right in the path of the entrance to this small town home development that would have to be pushed over and I think that would be a shame. So I would I'd just like to mention that
if if we could prioritize it uh it would be a wonderful thing. Let's let's see what we can do to to get that done. And then I wanted to mention that a great pillar of Hope Sound, uh, Eric Wessel passed away this
morning. He was the owner of Jupiter Island Pools, great community supporter, long-term board member at the Community Chest, which has done so much for the residents of Hope Sound. Uh, he will be greatly missed, and uh, we offer our
prayers for his family during this difficult time. Well, Hope Sound is experiencing some losses. Uh, another pillar of the community passed away last week, and that's Sally Schwarz, our beloved journalist for the Palm Beach Post for many years. She had a keen intelligence.
She was a wonderfully objective journalist. She had a terrific sense of humor. Uh, she was a proud Martin County resident. And after retirement, she became an esteemed friend of mine. Uh she was a wonderful friend and pillar in
the community. She will be greatly missed. Thank you, Commissioner Campy. >> Wow. The two of you hit with two people, excuse [clears throat] me, that I'm very familiar with and I had no idea. Eric was a great guy. Young Hope Sound. Yes.
In the last couple of weeks has had remarkable amount of sadness and loss. So, uh my sympathies for both of you. Sally Schwarz, when I first came into politics, she was tough as nails. Uh she didn't pull any punches. She uh she knew what her positions were and and she was
very good at her job. So that is a loss. Uh couple of things. one to Commissioner Cap's point about the Hope Sound Scrub Preserve. Uh I have some recent experience on trying to um maneuver
around development uh projects that are not necessarily appropriate for their location and the overall um well-being of the community. Based on what we heard from the speaker and what you're saying,
I I agree with you that if um that parcel of the Hob sound next to the Hobound Scrub Preserve needs to be preserved, then I support you in asking staff to get involved in that because we all know once it's gone, it's gone. And it would
be less expensive uh to get involved sooner than later because even from the developers point of view, if they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars developing a project, they'll be a lot less likely to want to negotiate out of it. Um we were fortunate in Palm City.
Uh we're still working through the details. It's a complicated process, but I think if you have the support of your board and staff realizes that it might not be half a cent sales tax money, it might not qualify, but there's other opportunities, district funds, ways that
you can make that happen if it's a small parcel. I agree with you. You you can't let it get away. Um, question for Mr. Donaldelson, which I know you will need to come back to us. I believe all of us have been receiving quite a lot of
emails about a dock permit in North River Shores. I'm not an expert on what that is all about. Uh I've read the emails, but know very well that um someone's passionate email does not necessarily explain and lay out
factually every bit of the situation both sides. So I would ask if Mr. Donaldson, maybe by the end of the day, uh, you could just bring the rest of us, uh, up to speed on what that is all about, so that when I do get any, uh,
communications from residents about my opinion on whether that should or should not be happening, I would know I'd be more aware of what the set of circumstances are. Thank you very much, >> Commissioner Heatherington.
>> Yes. Um, I would like to thank our veteran services office and all of those that helped plan the veterans uh uh festivities, parade, and memorial service last week. It was a fantastic event. The weather was phenomenal, a
nice cool day and um we all enjoyed it so much and honoring our veterans. So, thank you for those that planned that. And then I had on my list also the dock permit for in North River Shores. I would love to get more information. And
then following up on Mr. Powell's comments, I I believe that there's a screening issue where the the mobility path comes right up through and next to his driveway. I think if any of
us um had recognized that when the PUD was approved that we would have tried to screen that. So after the fact, I don't know what can be done, but I would like to see us try to work with him as a
county and at least screen that mobility path. And that's all I have today. >> Commissioner Campy, >> thank you. I forgot one thing. I noticed before I received a phone call, and maybe many residents did, if you've driven on Indian Street from US1
almost to the Turnpike entrance in Palm City, there is a large trail of splashed white and yellow traffic paint. Um, it's very noticeable. It's You can see when the truck had to stop at a red light because there's a puddle and then it
continues, but it's not like a little drip. It was a tremendous amount. I got an email uh from someone that said, "Hey, what about this?" And I thought they were complaining like, "Why isn't this handled?" I said, "Don't worry. I've seen it. We'll have staff try to
figure out not that many people are driving around with trucks full of yellow and and white traffic line paint." And he said, "No, it was us. And I would like to work with the county to correct it and clean it up so I would
share with you afterwards." um who did it and what their plan is to clean it up. I told them they wanted to do it over the weekend just on their own. I said it's Indian Street. Let's not do it that way. So, I want to get with you, Mr. Gordon. But I just want I I don't
know. I don't have permission to say his name, but I thought that was very responsible of someone because it's a long it's a big mess. Um all the way to the turnpike from US1 to the Turnpike. You can you can see they even pulled into Waw Wa and dripped it all out into
the Waw Wa. So, I have someone that's willing to clean it up and I thought that was nice. They live and their business is located here. So, um kudos to them for correcting their mistake. >> And that and that same business owner called me yesterday and tattled on
himself also. [laughter] >> Commissioner Vargas. >> Yes. Um, referring back to the North River Shores dock, um, it's my understanding that the POA has legal rights uh, to build the dock. This was
approved not by Martin County, but Florida Department of Environmental Protection. They are the ones that approved the dock. So, I definitely want to set the record straight on that. Do you want to add anything else to that, Mr. Donaldson? >> Um, >> because that's in my district. So, I definitely
>> No, that's fine. I was going to get with Smith's Elder and report back at the end of the day on some. So, >> good idea. >> Thank you. >> Also, uh, several of us attended the, uh, ribbon cutting and cocktail party to
celebrate the opening of the Mariner Sands Clubhouse. Mariner Sands is a longtime development. They've been here since 1978 and just uh, bulldozed their clubhouse and built a new one. It's it's spectacular. tell them that it didn't cost the residents any money
>> and it didn't cost the residents any money. They were they were they had a financial genius according to the president of the association who had been planning for this for about 10 years and they had been gradually accumulating uh uh monies so that when
it came time to uh approach the residents to about whether or not to build a new clubhouse the vote was 86% yes in favor of it because they didn't have to assess themselves. They already had the money. So, great job, Mariner Sands. >> We tried to recruit him to work at the
county, but they refused [laughter] to. He wants to be anonymous. So, we're still working on figuring out who he is. It's not the same guy that dripped the paint down Indian Street. [laughter] >> Mr. Donaldson. >> Uh, the first thing real quick is uh I did see that a couple of you all
supported us investigating the property, Jason, the Ham property. If I think there's more than three or three, I will I see enough head nods. We will have staff work on that. Thank you, >> Parson. >> Yes. Um the next item is it's regarding a
brownfield and you've this is the third time we've done this I think uh in in our history. I don't think we did any for for decades, but this is regarding a brownfield and it requires a public um announcement. It's the same one I did before except the previous announcement
had to do with a community meeting. This one will be here at the chambers. So, as follows, there will be two public hearings requested by Oasis Development LLC and the Palms of Hope Sound LLC for the board of county commissioners to
adopt a resolution designating property located at Southeast Gomez Avenue in Hopetown, Florida as a brownfield under Florida statute section 376.80. The meetings will be held before the Martin County Board of County
Commissioners on December 9th, 2025 and January 6, 2026 at 9:00 a.m. or soon thereafter as the matters may be heard. The public hearings will be held in the commission chambers at the administration building located at 2401
Southeast Monterey Road, Stewart, Florida 34996. Thank you. >> Mr. Donaldson, is that the former Carnation Farms? I believe. Yes. >> Okay. Just so the neighbors know, that's what we're going to be considering on December 9th. >> That's correct.
>> Carnation Farms, Hope Sound off of Gomez, >> a brownfield declaration, which necessitates a federal cleanup. Correct. >> State. >> State. >> State. Okay. All right. So, alert your peeps.
>> Thank you, >> Miss Elder. In that case, we are going to have our reorganization meeting this morning. Uh the first item is a we elect a chair and a vice chair. Commissioner Caps.
>> I think Commissioner Herd has done an excellent job as our chair in the last year and I would move that she remain as our chair in the coming year. >> Commissioner Heatherington. >> Yes. I put my light on because I wanted
to say thank you, Commissioner Herd, because it's been a very busy year of um both our centennial and um a lot of environmental advocacy at Washington in Washington and Tallahassee. So, thank you for your leadership and
representation. And I was going to um move that Commissioner Campy procedurally move up to chair and move that Commissioner Caps because he's been very involved throughout the year become vice chair.
>> Commissioner Vargas. >> Yeah. Um I um I've really [clears throat] enjoyed working with um Chairwoman Herd and I think that she deserves to be in that position. Uh we do um appreciate your insight and your
fortitude and I will second what Commissioner Caps has put forth. >> Thank you. >> It's welld deserved. >> Thank you. Well, there's a motion in a second uh for me to remain as the chair and for
Commissioner Campy to remain as vice chair. Is that >> I I would like to be considered for vice chair. Um, I have definitely put forth a lot of effort and I think also we need a fresh voice. Um, he's been vice chair. He's also been chair. So, it's time to,
you know, shuffle a bit. >> Well, Commissioner Caps, it was your motion. So, who's vice chair? >> I would like it to have it be separate motions as historically the way it works. We don't normally bundle the two positions. >> Okay. So, there's a motion uh for me to
remain as a chair and a second. All those in favor? I >> opposed. That motion passes unanimously. And now we will entertain motions for vice chair. >> I'd like to move um Commissioner Campy
remain as vice chair. >> Second. And the reason I'm seconding that is with all due respect to Commissioner Vargas serving one year on the commission as well as the fact that um it's a very complicated position
commissioner in general and I think to assume that you are prepared with all due respect to you and your history uh in the private sector I don't believe that one year on the commission would uh would be appropriate for um you to be
vice chair which means you'd have to serve in the position if the chair is not available. You would be uh addressing organizations and I you know I don't want to get too deep into the weeds but I think your first year has been a learning year. I don't know if it
is a springboard to uh board leadership at this point. >> Commissioner Vargas. Well, I'd like to say I'd like to counter that with I have a wealth of background as being chairperson on different committees, not just here, but also in Miami Dade
County. And uh while I appreciate your comments, I think we need freshness in the chairs. Um so one year, five years, some people are never ready for the position. I feel that it's appropriate that I am ready for the position. I'm a successful businesswoman also. So, I've
been able to have a lot of insight and be able to grasp tremendous amount of information well in just less than a year. It'll be coming up a year on the 19th >> tomorrow. Mr. Campy, >> thank you. I don't want to go into a
back and forth. We vote, we take motions and vote. There's five of us. I personally think that you are not just you. I think most people with a single year of experience would be unheard of for that level. and your experience in
Miami Dade. I'm sure most people would assume it's not necessarily equate to what happens here. Uh I don't want to get into a back and forth, but I would I personally don't believe you are prepared. Uh not that you won't ever be, but you're certainly not prepared to be
in that leadership position at this point. >> Commissioner Vargas, >> well, I appreciate your opinion. However, I think it's very narrow and I think that um have I I presented myself in a way that is very well aware of what's going on here in Martin County.
Having grown up as a as a child here and come back several times, I've seen the transformation and under your leadership, there's been tremendous change of development. People don't want this at all and we need to be able to
have a different perspective. I saw what happened in Miami Dade County, Broward County, Palm Beach County. We are not those counties. So perhaps the change is necessary. [clears throat] >> I guess we'll see what the five of us think.
>> There's a motion in a second. All those in favor? I >> opposed. Opposed. >> That motion passes. Uh 4 to one with Commissioner Park descent. >> I'm staying as spice. That was the motion. You made it. I did. >> Yeah.
So now we'll approve the use of the prior chair. This >> don't need to do that one. >> Don't need to do that one. Adopt a resolution designating who may sign documents on behalf of the board. Is that everybody? >> Yes. I'll put you chair, vice chair. And then down by
>> do we need to adopt a resolution? >> I'd make a motion to adopt that resolution. >> Second. >> There's a motion and a second. All those in favor? I opposed. That motion passes unanimously. Now, let's look at the uh boards and
committees. Uh commissioners, look on page 31 and you will see the uh commission representation currently. Commission Commissioner Campy, >> since we are in the season of leaving things as they are, I would make a
recommendation that uh since it's only been a year, especially with my newer colleagues and those that are uh the longer serving commissioners just got into some new positions, yourself included. Madam Chair, Commissioner Heatherington, I would make a motion
that we leave our current positions as they are for the coming year. >> Commissioner Vargas. >> Yeah. Well, that's not possible because uh canvasing board chair I would like to be appointed as the chair for that. We have uh the per the commissioner
Heatherington who is running for office next year. So that's not possible. Definitely want to request that position and there are several other positions that I would like to shuffle around. Um keeping things frozen static is not
healthy at all. So uh there is a lot of uh change in the air and I think this is the proper moment. This is the proper year for it. So if you want us to tell you what we would like. >> Sure. >> All right. Fine. So as I said um the affordable housing advisory committee I
would like to remain on that. The chemisting board chair >> I would like to return to the affordable housing. >> Excuse me. I'm >> saying so that if we're debating back and forth speaking >> very well >> not acceptable. Not acceptable. I'll just deal with what I'm I'm
referring to. The affordable housing advisory committee, I would like to stay on that committee. Also, canvasing board chair, the MO, I'm a member of that also as required. Small county coalition chair,
the Treasure Coast Council of Local Governments. Um, I would like to be considered as an alternate for that and an alternate for the Treasure Coast Regional Planning Council and Value Adjustment Board. I was appointed on the
committee. I'd like to be an alternate. >> Commissioner Caps. Um, I was going to uh I'm I'm satisfied with the boards that I'm currently on. So, I would be willing to second
Commissioner Campy's motion. Do we have a problem technically with uh cam the canvasing board issue at this point? >> Yeah, we would have to switch the canvasing board. >> But that would be one change that we would have to since commission.
>> Okay. >> So, make well uh Is is is anyone else interested in canvasing board? I just want to make sure. >> I'm the alternate. I I like to become the chair. And if Miss Commissioner Vargas would like to be the alternate,
>> I'd like to be the chair. >> You're the vice chair. I would like to be the chair. >> That's a This is the back and forth that we do here. So, I appreciate that you've given your list first, but that's not how it works. You don't automatically get because you want to. We're going
back and forth to see how it works. >> But but I have to voice what my requests are. >> Thank you so much. I appreciate it. >> Oh, I agree with you completely. >> Commissioner Heatherington. >> Yes. I'm satisfied with all my uh committees. I would like to remain on
them. Um and I would also get a motion and a second. I would also support um Commissioner Campy being the chair of the canvasing board. I know he's he's done it, enjoyed it, and Commissioner Vargas as being the alternate.
>> Commissioner Campy, the only um issue that I would like to keep is I'd like to become the chair of the canvasing board and I will relinquish my interest in the affordable housing advisory committee uh so that
Commissioner Vargas can remain. We call that compromising. >> Okay, Commissioner Vargas. very well aware of compromise already affordable housing advisory committee uh chairwoman heard um I would like to be the chair of the canvasing board um I think that
commissioner campy um is well suited for the position as he stated uh to be considered a vice chair of this board so he can be there and I would be the chair uh that's fair he served before it's time to pass the baton for this so that we all have the experience and the
pleasure of working There's a motion and a second for the board uh the committee appointments to remain the same except for uh canvasing board which is there's a a motion and a second for commissioner to be the chair
and for uh commissioner Vargas to be the al alternate then the rest of the committees remain the same. Correct. No, I' I'd like as I requested the Treasure Coast regional alternate value adjustment board alternate
small county coalition chair I'll remain the same the MO I'm on and chair of convincing board I'm [clears throat] already on the affordable housing committee so >> we have a motion and a >> few changes there's a motion and a second all those in favor I >> opposed
that motion passes 4 to one with commissioner Vargas dissenting now we'll take up the >> backtrack just a second. Value adjustment board. Do we going to Commissioner Herd is appointed as chair? You're going to remain as chair. >> Sure. >> Yes. >> Thank you.
>> Anything else, Miss Gordon? >> Uh, no. That's I got it. >> All right. Can we move on to meetings? They are on page 32. Do those look good to everybody? >> Yes. >> Yes. I will
>> I'm concerned about November, but apparently that's just uh there's only one meeting. I guess that's because there's an it's an election year. >> Yes, it's an election on November 3rd >> and we can't What's What's up with November 10th?
>> We can have a meeting. >> Do two in a row. One a month is light. Is there any Madam Chair, I agree. Is there any reason we can't have a meeting on November 10th? We do have sometimes meetings backtoback. I believe we're
doing that in December of this year. >> Um, no. There is a You could have Excuse me. You could have a meeting on November 10th. >> Is there a conflict? Uh, one commissioner was going to be out. >> There's five of us. >> I think the president we do it on the
10th, >> the 10th and the 17th. I mean, >> you had a meeting without me, so we have a meeting without one. I would make a motion that we add an additional meeting for the month of November 2026 for November 10th.
>> So we would have the 10th and the 17th. Residents need more than one meeting a month. >> I second. >> There's a motion and a second to adopt the calendar adding November 10th to the meeting schedule. All those in favor? I
opposed. That motion passes unanimously. Now, let's look at uh holidays. That's on page 34. Is that the next item? >> I'd make a motion to accept the
scheduled holidays as they are presented. >> Second. >> There's a motion and a second. All those in favor? I opposed. That motion passes unanimously. And lastly, is there a motion to adopt the rules of procedure? any changes uh proposed.
>> Seeing that the rules and procedures are the are the same as they have been, I'd make a motion that we accept them. >> Second. >> There's a motion and a second. All those in favor? I opposed. That motion passes unanimously. Uh commissioners, we are now going to
run into a preset. I don't want to start the meeting, I don't think, um because we're going to run into the preset. So, you want to take a break until 10:30? Yes, >> we will break until 10:30. You're on. We are back. We are resuming our
meeting. Taking up our preset which is department 4 which is a request from the town of SS Point to provide an update on its septic to sewer projects. Good morning Mr. Emerson. >> Good morning, Madam Chair and Commissioner. It's always good to be
with you again. Um, as you stated, this item uh was at the request of the town of SS Point. Um, and I'd like to just give you a little brief background on where they are. Um, in 2022, the SS Point Commission authorized a septic to
sewer conversion uh with with the assistance of an $ 8.4 million grant from the FD. the town and the county entered in entered into two interlocal agreements. One was for the construction of 169
connections for grinder sewer and the second was for 171 connections. So for a total of 340 uh grinder sewer systems to serve 340 parcels uh in lowlying areas and so that was what was approved in the interlocal
agreement. Since then the town has had a special meeting uh Mr. Daniels discussed discussed um four options for the town to consider. Uh they selected I think option one and option four. Uh and I think that Mr. Daniels is here this
morning and also the town uh the town's consultant Joe Capra and I believe they wanted to address the board. >> I guess that's my queue. >> That's [laughter] your queue. >> Good morning. >> Great. Thank you, Sam. >> Sure. Uh and thank you all for uh having us here and uh entertaining my uh town
commissioners who are also here. If I can just take a quick moment and introduce you to everybody. Uh our town engineer, Joseph Capra from Captech Engineering and James KS who is his right arm over at Captech. Uh then my
mayor uh Dave Kursman and my vice mayor Vinnie Burrill. Uh, I also have Commissioner Titigus, Commissioner Mayfield, and Commissioner Fender. So, I got all five
of them here. >> So, uh, it's, and I'll be seeing them again tonight because we have our meeting tonight. But anyhow, I don't want to take up a lot of your time, but I I did want to, uh, let you know that, uh, you know, we're, uh, obviously we're very fortunate, you know, working
handinand with, uh, with Sam and Don. uh they've been most gracious and and very helpful as we proceeded through this project and I know I've I've talked with some of you one-on-one and and uh you know you pretty much know you know we've
been trying to get this thing done the grant I guess that we're up against ends at the end of June and uh the the reason why we had our meeting to discuss different options is I didn't realize that we were going to have an an opportunity to come back before you. So,
I appreciate that. But the options that we looked at basically were uh doing some gravity work and we uh Joe will probably walk you through that. And but we're doing uh 70 I believe it's 76 connections in the Rio Vista subdivision
through Gravity uh which has gotten the okay from Martin County Utilities uh to do that. But uh we also, you know, looked at an option of trying to move grinder units from people that have already been expecting them. And you
might have heard from some of those folks I understand earlier under public comment but you know they they got upset because you know some of them bought homes because they knew that they were scheduled to get sewers and and so it's uh so the commission decided just to
proceed is the way that we had planned and going with the 340 units and and uh taking a look at it of what the future is going to bring. And it's from us looking at what we have in the future uh which kind of got us to some options
that I think uh Joe is going to explain to you and we kind of ran by uh you know Sam and and Don and uh so we're showing you if there's an opportunity that we can can do this I mean I'm most gracious
and we're here with our hat in hand so to speak but uh I really appreciate this opportunity so not to take any more of your time. Joe Capro. >> Thank you, Bob. First of all, appreciate you guys taking the time to hear us this morning. I'm Joe Capro with the town of
SS Point Engineering. I'm their town consultant engineer, of course. I've been been their engineer for many years. Actually, we've been working on sewers for 30 years, believe it or not, with the help of uh your Martin County Utilities Department. And I want to thank Don as well as Sam for allowing us
to make the presentation. Um, essentially, um, this has been a team effort. And I I I want to first start with that. It's not us against the county staff, it's us working with the county staff. And we've been very successful on this program and making it
work. So, I just want you to know um that's what we're here to talk about is how we can continue it and quite frankly finish the job of providing sewers for the whole town of SS Point. So, that's what we're here to talk about today. I'm not going to continue or repeat what Bob
spoke about, uh, but I think most of you know, uh, you're going to hear the numbers and so forth, but we received an $8.4 million D resiliency grant for sanitary sewer. And quite frankly, handinhand with that, we've also uh
received several resiliency grant relative to storm water management. And we have a very extensive program on that, which I'll just touch on today, but I just want you to know they kind of need to work hand in hand. I know Sam, you can move us forward a little bit. Who's who's I just want
>> Donna's got it. >> Thank you, Donna. >> Yeah. >> So, next slide. Let's see. So, I think most of you know where we're located. Just wanted to make sure you kind of emphasized it with you. And and first of all I did send gave everybody a copy
paper copy of what's on your slides so that if you want to take some notes or ask us to go back to something we can. Uh first of all this is obviously the town of Soul's point. U important points of this slide is to show you know we're pretty much in a sensitive environmental area of course with the Indian River
Lagoon on our east side and of course the St. Lucy Estuary on our right on our our west side and obviously we're right by the inlet and so forth. The purpose of this slide is to let you know in red is North Souls Point. Uh Norols Point, we have finished all the lines necessary
for people to hook up either gravity or grinders. Okay? And it's a combination of both types of systems in North Souls Point. So all the lines have been in place there. So you know we have about a 50% hookup rate in that area uh since those were finished a couple years ago.
Uh so that's the good news, right? uh the blue area which is the commercial area that also has sewers. Every one of the commercial businesses in there we've hooked up sewers to for that. Those are actually hooked up whereas the difference in North's point we made
sewers available in in the blue area they actually were hooked up and obviously the town hall itself was hooked up in that area. The green area is what we really want to talk about today. uh we call it it's the South Souls Point area and essentially uh again we we would like some
consideration on potentially uh first of all we want to we're going to build some gravity but we also want consideration for some more grinder stations in that area. Uh next slide. Um essentially I I want to point out and this one will be we don't I'm not going
to talk extensively on any of these slides more than just touch on them. We have a resiliency program. The one that's in front of you kind of shows what's going to happen with sea level rise and you know a great portion of our community is going to be underwater. So we're we're responding to that now. And
the first thing we'll talk about is storm water and that's the next slide please. Essentially in South Souls Point and we want to continue this in North Souls Point but we need to do that with the county but essentially we have four phases of that project. Uh as you work
from the south the blue one is phase one. We have raised the road. We've put in storm water storage. We've put in uh backup pump systems and everything. It's complete. It's installed. Uh second slide. The second area is is the area called phase two which we're bidding.
This slide here shows you what phase one looked like before on the left and what it looks like now on the right. So we pretty much uh considered the flooding that happens out there from king tide and sea level rise and so forth. Um going back to the other slide just one
if we go back the green area is under construction right now it's 85% construction complete phase two is the area that we we we really want to speak about today mainly because we are bidding that pro that area we have a resiliency storm water grant for that
area and we have a the remaining part of the uh $ 8.4 million resiliency sanitary sewer grant for to be used in this area. And the last but not least is phase four as we get closer to town hall and East Ocean Boulevard and we are in that point
we are applying for grants and and completing the design. Now um next slide you've already seen so we'll go to the next slide. Um just a really quick summary in 2015 you did a study and I helped in that study called septic a
septic system elimination study. The town was ranked number 12. Okay. Uh the county is is is working as hard as they can. Sam and his group is doing phenomenal amount of work on this uh and trying to get all the different areas hooked up to sewers and and certainly
with your blessing and so forth. And I just want you to know it turns out we are not going to get sewers possibly for 10 years. So what the town did, okay, is I said, listen, we need to to we need to expedite or try to move this forward. So
they of course have decided to move forward with grants. We've applied for the grants. That's how we we applied for the 8.4. We set up plans. We did permitting. And with all of this is with the Martin County Utilities O oversight and and we are actually taking on the construction of observation of
construction and grant administration services. Uh the next slide again what we had to do like everything else is we had to do a study to determine how we were providing sewers to the town. Okay. and we looked at low pressure systems, gravity systems, we looked at um uh
vacuum systems and so forth. Everything that the county asked us to look at. Uh but we have to all understand in the bottom right hand corner you can see our town commission criteria was very specific. No mandatory connection and that's kind of a little misnomer. Basically it means no mandatory
connection unless your sewer your your drain field fails. Okay? If that happens you have to hook up. Okay. Second thing, no mandatory assessment. Well, that's kind of a misnomer also because the way it works is the grant pays for the lines in the road and so forth and then when
the person gets ready to hook up, they basically have to pay a fee for that which is about the same fee that you are char you are having the rest of the residents in Martin County pay. And that number we tell people it ranges between 8 and $12,000 a connection.
What the point is is there there there will be an a a hookup fee. It's not an assessment. It's a hookup fee when they're ready to hook up. But the last item on there on criteria is we have to have an interlocal agreement with Martin County. And it's important to recognize you are providing water service to all
our residents and about 50% almost 50% of our residents or residents in the north as well as commercial res commercial businesses also you provide service and obviously we want to continue that to the south and that's the purpose of why we're here today. So
when if if we get what we want today or if we get parts of what we want today or whatever, we we will have to come back with you within the next 30 days to get it signed in our local agreement. And that's that's an important item that we will need to ultimately do. Uh the next uh slide just kind of explains about the
$ 8.4 million grant. Again, the grant requires a match. So in other words, if we get 8.4 million and spend $8.4 $4 million from from D for this grant. Our residents have to pay $8.4 million and match. Okay? Now, we may not have to spend all $ 8.4 million, but the fact of
the matter is we have to match whatever we take from the the grant. Okay? And so, that's why we've set up a construction connection package fee, and that's the price to hook up. And again, I've already explained that that could range to to be up as much as $12,000 a connection, which we understand is quite
frankly the goal you have on your connection rate for your residents. So, throughout the county. So, I just want you to know we're not paying any less. We're just our residents are paying the same amount as any resident in the county are going to be paying. Okay. Anyways, um the big item here again,
next next slide is really u we just want to talk about what we built and I don't want to kind of repeat this. We started with $ 8.4 million. The deadline is June 2026. That's a very ambitious schedule to get more work done. Essentially the purple items which is has already been
completed there. We have about a 22% hookup rate that's been finished for the last since last December. and then the gray areas which is under construction today as we speak to provide sewers to the lowlying areas to the south end of the c of of the town. Okay, so that's a
total of the 340 connections that we have permission currently at this time to build connections for the south end. Next slide. So this is the request. Okay, basically what you see in blue circled in blue is part three. That is
an area called Rya Vista. It has gravity system in place dry. Okay, it's not been active. We have to put a lift station there. We have to rehabilitate all the lines and we have to put manholes in place and and corre basically improved
upon to meet current standards and so forth. So part three is what we're working on. It's called the Rio Vista system. It's 76 connections and we actually are under bid at this moment to get that done. So that is going to be a gravity system. The the next two phases,
phase part 3A and 3B are connection areas that we have a lot of interest in hooking up and uh basically grinder stations from Pineapple to Oakwood Drive is about 74 connections and from grinders from SS Meadows to Deleno Lane is about 60 connections. The importance
of those areas is they're they're basically currently having concerns about health department concerns relative to the fact that we have uh next slide please. Basically, we have we we basically have this condition right here where we have water in the streets
which ultimately is intermixing with our our septic tank drain field water and essentially the people want that effluent to get addressed with and that's the septic to sewer resiliency program and that's that's part of the 134 connections we're talking about and the flooding will be addressed with also
a storm water resiliency program. Both these programs have a deadline of of next of of next June 2026. Very ambitious to get all this stuff done at one time. Essentially, you can see these are the areas of our health concerns.
And quite frankly, that's for the 74 connections of the 134. This is exactly what it looks like after a heavy rainfall in South Souls Point currently. And we are out there fixing this all the time. And we have actually got two phases of this work done already. Next,
next slide. [clears throat] This slide I it's just a repeat of some of the same other information I wanted you to understand. The blue again is the 76 connections where we're going to be using gravity. Uh the request today is for the 134 connections which are
outlined in the purple red area. Uh mainly the 74 is on the 3A area is is shown and also the 76. We've done two we've done two polling of our residents. Okay. And the reason why you see the green and the yellow and the red and so
forth on here, those are the interest that we have in sewage or or connecting the sewer. So if you look at the numbers, just so you know, we have Grant, as you can see, not everybody responded, okay? But we have about 226 people that want to hook up. That's 85% of the people that responded are willing
to hook up. And about 39 of the people said, those are the red, the red lines there or the red dots and squares, those don't want it. That's about 15%. Those are of the people that have responded. So, I want you to know we have people that are interested in hooking up. Uh we
have the money to do this work with the grant. We just have to get going right away. And that's where our problem is. We need to move as quick as possible uh to to utilize the grant or otherwise the $5.1 million that we have. We're going to have to give back. And it's not a good thing to do from anybody's standpoint, from our standpoint, your
standpoint, from a sewer people running a sewer system. We really want to use this money. and so we can use your help today to to make that move forward. So with that, I'll stop talking and I'll answer any questions you might have. >> Questions for Mr. Capra? >> Can we hear from their
>> One question I have is is that we've heard from residents of Riverview Riverview Drive and Palm Road today. >> And were they included in the LP in the grinder layout plan? >> Yes, they are. They are in part 3A. the
part 3A which is out is right next to the blue the gravity area is in blue which is Ry Vista they are just next to that to the south. How did you decide how did you decide which were going to be the first um neighborhoods that were going to be connected
>> the um well there's a couple things that made as you know we have a resiliency storm water plan so we have to get the sewers in in those places first okay because obviously you don't want to go put the storm water system and then they have to go and tear it up and and the roadway is being raised in most cases
okay so we had to basically get those and put in place and that's the purple and gray areas Okay, those are the areas that we are putting in. Uh we we are we we've already been working on getting the sewers in first so that we can put in the storm water system for the
resiliency. As you kind of know from our discussion here, all our grants have deadlines. Most of them are most of our federal grants are FEMA grants. Okay? Most of our state grants, D grants, come from state funds. The problem with the
current grant, the $ 8.4 $4 million grant which we have 5.1 million left um is that it's was fin paid for through ARPA funds federal funds and the state of Florida has to have all those funds expended by June of 2026 there's no
exception we can't change the the deadline we cannot change the uh the match on this grant uh so essentially we're allowed to use the connection fee that our people pay as our match okay now there is no deadline on when the
match happens. Okay. The important part about this is to get the lines in the road and have sewers available. That's that's the that's the requirement here. >> Questions for Mr. Capra? >> I will have some. Can we do it after we hear from their public? >> Sure. Let's listen. Let let's hear from
the public. Uh the first request to speak I have is from Frank Titicus followed by Kaia Mayfield. >> Good morning. >> Morning. >> Good morning, commissioners. My name is Frank Titicus. I'm a resident of SS Point and also u a commissioner at SS
Point. Um thank you for your opportunity to address you. I'm asking you to reject a request by the town. And the answer is why? Well, you heard in from Mr. Hammersham in 2022 the town applied for and received a grant for D to provide
sewer services to 706 homes. When applying for and signing the contract, the commission was aware the award was insufficient to provide sewer services to the 706 homes utilizing grinder and gravity systems. The commission was also aware of the board of county
commissioners policy and limitation of 350 grinder systems. This wasn't done out of ignorance. The mayor at the time was a retired director of Fort Pierce Utilities who had been that director for 5 years and the town engineer was Mr. Kapper who is wellversed in in the
rules. Town of SS Point intentionally misled the state of Florida in its grant application and Martin County in its request for the 340 grinders and also signing an interlocal agreement saying that they would be put in a low-lying area and the residents of Souls Point
who have been pro repeatedly promised that there'll be no mandatory connections or special assessments. The commission painted itself into a corner and it's asking you to bail them out. Even if you repro approve this request, 232 homes will still remain unserved and
I'll guarantee they'll be back asking for more grinders. Although the grinder systems are better suited for low-lying areas, Captech and its design and grinder layout didn't include all areas that are well known to flood during king tides and storms, but rather they
service the higher elevations and they ran the system up through High Point and also in the U Rio Vista subdivision to the higher elevations. The request by Souls Point will also add to the county budget. Granting the request will set a bad precedent. Your
connect to protect program was designed for communities of less than 350 parcels where a vacuum or gravity system is not feasible. This isn't the case with the town of Suls Point. Question has been posed, if this isn't approved, how much will be returned to D. You heard Mr.
Kapper say we had $5.1 million in funds. The cost for the Rio Vista subdivision uh were basically 2022 numbers. If you update them for inflation and use a construction inflation factor of 35% from 2002 to 2025,
you're going to come up with approximately 2 and a4 million would end up being returned to the state of Florida. My commissioners, fellow commissioners have raised the issue that by returning unused grant money, it'll hurt the town's chances of future applications.
When a staffer [clears throat] at D was asked about this, the statement that was received was the only time they would hold future funding and grants as if the municipality is in an audit compliance situation and then returning the funds is actually good because it saves the
state money. This demonstrates compliance and good financial stewardship. What I'm requesting of you today is to deny the request for 134 grinders. However, I would like you to approve 10 additional grinder connections to service the portions of
the low-lying areas, primarily Riverview and Palm Roads that are not included and should have been included in the original design. This is within the scope of your policy and it would alleviate the flooding of the drain fields in the lowlying areas during king
tides and major storms. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Kaia Mayfield is next, followed by Kim Spears. >> Hello, Commission. Thank you for having me. Good morning. Um, good morning. Um,
I just I'm Kai Mayfield. I'm a commissioner and a resident of SS Point, if that's not obvious. Um, and just to note, um, the commission voted 4 to one to endorse coming forward to you guys to ask for the additional grinder system. Um, so I think that's obvious. Um, I
also wanted to say that I think it's very well known. Um, but in case you guys didn't know, I've been a big proponent of subject to sewer conversion for all of South's Point since I got on the commission about six years ago. And as been stated before, it's been going on for 20 plus years. This is this is not a new topic and we've been working
really hard and making a lot of progress. Um, I'm going to ask you to approve the additional 134 grinders mainly for three important reasons. uh straight away it is environmentally beneficial immediately not just for those 10 houses but for all of South Su's point. You saw where we are in our
waterways. It's immediate environmental benefits as opposed to waiting and waiting and waiting. Um it's fiscally responsible using state money in Martin County. Um without this approval, there's a chance the money goes back to the state. I'm not going to get into the details, but I want to use money in Martin County to better life for our
residents. Um and then third of all, it's collaborative. I'm a huge proponent of government working together. I don't think there's enough of it and as was stated before, we love working with the county. I think we work well together. Um, this is the epitome of that. Us working together to achieve great things
for our residents. Um, it's my opinion, it always has been. This is a win for Souls Point. It's a win for Martin County. So, I please ask you to approve the grinders. Thank you. >> Thank you. [applause] Kim Spears is next, followed by Frank Vender.
Hello, Kim Spears. >> Good morning, everyone. Thank you for having me. Um, I am a longtime resident of Martin County, specifically SS Point. I've lived there for 15 years, and I've been a real estate broker in town for almost 29 years, actually 30 in 2026. I'm here today for all residents of SS
Point. And I was brought to my attention about the Grinder situation, that we were short grinders. And what started the process of me being involved is I thought we were getting sewer. I sold basically in one section of Souls Point
based on the grinder situation over $30 million worth of property. These property then went for building permits. They went for remodel permits to the tune of another $20 million which we're in progress on right now. So when they ca when it became known that they were going to pull our grinders from a
specific area of that section of SS point, it put a lot of people up in arms because we're already in these projects. Um so once that was approved and they're like we're going to move forward, it became known to me about the other areas of SS Point that are flooding. Yes, we know a lot of it is from the road.
However, it is dire need for these people to get these grinders and I'm asking for the additional 134 grinders because we have the money. We are on a timeline for this grant money. So, as you know, November, December, contract crews don't work as hard. They stop.
Everyone kind of slows down. So, we are on a deadline. If we lose the grant money, I mean, I'm not here to debate what happens and what doesn't happen. It runs out. We don't finish the project. Then, where are we? We're back in front of the county commission again asking for more money and trying to get more
grants. So, I'm also concerned about the sewer situation and the sewage that is in the runoff and the rivers. That is another besides property values, which I'm here to talk about. The sewer, the health conditions, I have not seen it like this. I got a call today from
someone on River Road, which happens to be a high elevation. He says, "Kim, please come put your boots on and come step down here. You're going to see sewage." So, if we get the additional 134 grinders approved, we have the money. We have the budget for it in the grant. we can match it. Residents want
it and it will alleviate the problems in a much uh quicker program than just waiting to the next phase or the gravity system. So, I'm here today just to ask again, please consider the additional 134 grinders. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Frank Vender is next, followed by Vinnie Baril. Hello, commissioners. Uh, my name is Frank Fender, a longtime resident of Souls Point. I've been living in town for 22 years, and first I'd like to say thanks for the important work you do for
our community on the whole, not just SS Point, not just the city of Stewart, but the commission overall. Uh, I've been, uh, serving our town for three terms now. Uh, after living in town for 22 years and, uh, lived through the the
lost summers of 2014 and 2016. So my discussion to you today, you've heard all the facts, the you know the numbers, the quantitative information, but as a longtime resident of the community of the the county, um I think it's important to understand the
environmental impact of what we're doing in SS Point and what we've started to do decades ago. Um we've been following in lock step with your protect to connect program for for years. We've been fighting the battle to
connect over 10,000 connections to do the the septic to sewer conversion and uh SS Point is almost like ground zero for the environmental impact that we've focused ourselves on since those last summer activities that you'll probably hear more about. You've seen the
pictures of the flooding that happens yearly whenever there's a king tide. Our roads are flooded and our cars drive through that. Not just salt water, but salt water leeched with septic sewer and corrosion. So we are actively causing environmental impact to one of the most
biodiverse estuaries in in the northern hemisphere. So we we need to reverse that. And you've probably lived through the the process as I have and we point back to the lake and the people at the lake say, "Well, you won't fix your problems down south. Why do we have to do anything at the lake?" So back in
those days when I first started on as a commissioner, I said, "Well, fine. Let's let's fix the problem on our side and then we'll go back to the communities around the lake and say, "We've done our part. It's time for you to do your part." not for SS Point, but for for Martin County, for the the
egress into the the Atlantic, for the entire bluewater area that should be around all of our communities in in Martin County. So, um this is a long hard-fought battle. We're very close to making huge inroads. I'll thank you
already for the the positive work we've done working together on the north north end and most as you saw in the diagram the um the lowerlying area of SS point that's pretty much targeted but our goal my goal for the last three terms of my
commission is to provide infrastructure to every resident of SS point to be able to connect to municipal sewer and avoid the encroachment into our environment from septic to sewer. [clears throat] So again, as you've heard from all but one of our commissioners that uh we are
asking you, urging you to side with us and and help us extend your program for 134 additional connections to allow those areas that are not yet served by your municipal sewer to connect up. So I'm urging you again to uh support us in
our effort to to get 134 more grinder stations in Souls Point. All right. Thanks again for the great work you do. I appreciate your mentorship and your guidance. Thank you. Vinnie Burril is next and Mr. Buril is the last request to speak form. If you would like to address us, please fill out a request to
speak form and hand it to the baiff. >> Thank you, commissioners. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I appreciate it. Um you know in 1989 there was a movie field of dreams and um there was a line it said build it
and he will come. In this case it's build it and the residents will connect. Um I'm asking you to allow the town and the county uh util utilities department to move forward with 134 grinders.
Um, this will help our residents as well as the lagoon. And I'd like to thank you for your time today. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Charles Giri is next, followed by Tom Pine.
Good morning. >> Morning, commissioners. My name is Chuck Giri. I live at 10 Riverview Drive. So, I'm the fifth house up on Riverview. Um Becky and I live right in the middle of all of the you saw those pictures. Um
something I didn't hear talked about was underneath all of that water are two storm drains that drain straight into the estuary. And so when that water rises that is all going to those storm drains right into the estuaries. At Tin
River View we have storm drains too. So we got four four drains on Riverview. Uh when the water rises during the king tides, it comes up to approximately the fourth house. That's a on a regular basis, especially after hurricanes and
high wind, high rains. So underneath that water, you've got storm drains, but you've also got septic tanks. So those houses and their septic tanks in their front yards are underneath all of that water. So you know, I'm no engineer, but it's very obvious where those septic tanks, the water's coming up, it's
draining out and right into the river. Uh, I think it's something we need to look at right away. Um, we have a failing septic tank anyway. We're going to fix ours anyway. Ours have been failing for years and um whether you do something or not. I'm going to have to fix my septic tank, but I'm hoping
you'll you'll do something and um I'm hoping you'll do it now. This is as important and it's urgent. Let's take a look at our our estuaries. Let's take care of them. Thank you. >> Thank you. [applause] Tom Pine is the last request to speak
form I have. >> Good morning, commissioners. My name is Tom Pine. I presently live in the Jensen Beach area. A few months ago, this chamber was filled with people from Western Martin County looking for a firehouse.
Over the past couple years, it's been mentioned that we need three firehouses in Western Martin County. One house was already lost in that neighborhood. So, as you spend our tax dollars, let's not forget about people who are
waiting, patiently waiting, and at the rate it's going, it might be another decade before there's another firehouse in Western Martin County. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> Back to the board, Commissioner Caps.
I think I I want to begin by thanking the residents of Sils Point and the commissioners and uh staff of Sils Point for being here today. I'm really glad you all conferred with us and that we heard your voices. I think based on what
we heard in uh the comments that we have an emergency situation with a deadline [applause] and of of June uh 2026 where this work
has to be done or grant money has to be returned and I think the town needs a measure of flexibility flexibility uh implemented from us. Um, and
you know, when you think about Su's Point geographically, there couldn't be a more important place to have septic to sewer than Su's Point. It's completely surrounded by the Indian River and the St. Lucy River. Uh, if
it's important at all to us anywhere in Martin County, it should be very, very important there. So I would like to go ahead and move that we grant the request for an additional 134 grinders
uh based with two conditions that this be a tenative approval pending submission and approval of plans for these new grinders. I understand those plans are not in place yet, but would
like to see the plans and also an agreement from the town that they will vigorously pursue grants for a gravity system for the remaining lots
uh that need septic to sewer on Su's point. Commissioner Vargas, >> you know, before I took office, I met with Mr. Daniels. I still have the report. Um, I did read through it. There were a lot of different options prepared by
Captech, I believe. Um, I don't quite understand why it was insufficient to cover the areas of which your company, Mr. Copra, did not include these particular areas. And it says
draft on it. It's not even a final. So, I mean, you say you're the experience here in Martin County and certainly Su's point and I understand campaign promises, but that's very dangerous. I mean, you knew about I'm talking about
the commission uh knew about the expiration of this ARPA grant, which is a federal fund, and um so it's not really clear as to why you would make this promise to the citizens other than as a campaign promise. Um you'll still
have uh homes that are unserved and I believe also it's not in the BMAP area, which um you know, that's the action plan for the basin management. Um, and this is just a very small sliver of S's point. Um, so
the western edge of town bordering on the St. Lucy is in the B map. Um, and we're talking about the east side of town, not in the B map. So when you make a grant, and I have written grant applications, I have a vast experience on a lot of different technicalities.
Um, you have to be very precise and concise. you cannot leave omissions. Um, you're asking us to hurry up and make a decision here which I've had extensive conversations both with uh certain members of
different departments. We had to return grants. So then we made application again a correct application and we received the grant money. So you're asking us to hurry up because this was not correct. We have prioritized
communities and this puts us in a very difficult position. You knew this was coming. Um this has been going on I think since 2015 I think your initial report. We're now what 10 years later. So I I don't I don't agree with
the fact that we're going to ask Mr. Emerson here and I want him to address this. We have other communities that are far less than the quantity of the system that you're requiring for Su's point. Uh we have those in order. As a matter of
fact, I think Mr. Capra, your your organization, your company did prioritize and Su's point, this particular particular area was not listed. So Mr. Emerson, I'd like you to address this if you can. I mean, we have
to complete, we have priorities. We have to complete the projects under construction. We have to close out our grants. And yes, we're striving for water quality improvement. Everybody is. But this was not a work in tandem with Martin County because we have to tap the
expertise of those that are directors here and who very capably manage uh their particular departments. So, uh, Mr. Dmerson, we're talking they're asking for 134 grinders. I think the vacuum system is
more uh uh more effective. It's more cost effective. Also, again, there were four options in this study that I I held up here. Um so, we have 10,000 homes that we want uh to
uh transfer over from septic. um and some are on vacuum, some are on grinder depending on the community and those are communities that can ill afford um to spend money uh on something that is going to be required. Um so we
we we're not here to give away. We certainly cannot do that. Um, but I would like you to address the fact that now they're here and we have less than a year, but you can return the funds and you can make application again. Um, I
think it's a worthy cause, but to be able to put undue pressure on Martin County, I I don't think that that is that is a good faith gesture for us. Um, could you address the fact that you do have other projects out there? You must
finish construction. you must close out the grants on those and then in the future work with Su's point but they have to have a report that is not a draft report it's a complete report and that makes sense you know for the
citizens of S's point and the citizens you all need to talk with your manager Mr. Capra did this or get another engineering firm and get a different opinion and also with your commissioners and and find out why they have delayed
this and dragged the feed and now everything is in a rush. >> So I'd like to get your opinion please Mr. Emerson. >> Sure commissioner. Um there was a lot bundled up in that uh your comments and I'll try to address that. Um when we
started the program, we had a lot of uh our staff involved, engineers, administration. Uh we came up, we thought was a pretty robust um way to address septic to sewer and provide uh eliminate septic tanks and on-site drain fields. And so we
initially started out with we wanted to serve 10,000 homes as you mentioned. We wanted to serve some of the smaller communities with grinder systems and because of the uh cost feasibility for the vacuum sewer systems. We we apply
those to the larger communities and that's been working well for us. I understand there's some needs to be flexible at times. Um in this case, my my really only concern here um is it might jeopardize our program going
forward. We have two large sept to sewer projects. One uh you'll be seeing on December 9th is a final assessment resolution and a construction contract award for Coral Gardens. We also have following on the heels of that will be
Port Solerno Port Solerno and New Monrovia and we've had experience with that uh some delays did return some grant fundings but the second year we applied we were successful. So, I I just
didn't want to any any actions to um really negatively impact those two vacuum systems we've been trying so hard to get in place. So, that was really my concern uh and how I drafted the recommendation. But, it's completely the
board's decision and we can if a policy needs to be massaged or adjusted, we're here to take direction from the administration and the board. >> Commissioner Heatherington. Yes. I wanted to just take a moment to actually um say to utilities, thank you for the
phenomenal program that you have put together. Uh in 2018, the board uh undertook a very large goal of 10,000 septic tanks over 10 years and uh we've become I think a model in the state. So
we've as sitting on Indian River Lagoon Council and I had the pleasure of sitting on there with uh Jackie Thurlo Lipish and we had Martin County come there are five or six different counties and entities that are represented on that board and Martin County came to
present to all of those other counties because we have what's considered to be a model septic to sewer program around the state and it it's heralded around the state and I want to congratulate our department for the phenomenal work.
We've been very successful and we have some very large um projects coming forward. So, and with that being said, I think because the program is so strong and robust, it it has a measure of flexibility that can be built in. I like
Commissioner Cap's suggestion of bringing back or or having the plans. Um, it's subject to the plans being 100% designed for the grinder. And I would say this county and this community has
always prioritized um healthy waterways and conservation and preservation. And from what I heard from the residents and the photos I saw, I think that that we should put our money where our mouth is and we should
prioritize healthy rivers. And uh I think again there's a measure of flexibility and we want to be fair to all residents, but in this case I think the additional grinders will probably benefit environmentally and
economically. And as far as grant dollars, we never want to see and we want to collaborate with our towns and cities and we don't want to see people um have to send back money to Tallahassee because we fight really hard for those funds.
>> [applause] >> Commissioner Campy, >> thank you very much. Um, a couple of fundamentals from my point of view, and I have to mention them every once in a while when we have our colleagues and our friends and our
fellow elected officials from other municipalities come, whether it's Ocean Breeze or Jupiter Islands, City of Stewart. And through my history of sitting up here, we have had them all here at one point or another. The fundamentals that I think sometimes get
lost when we say the, you know, S's point, that's still Martin County. The folks that spoke today, the folks that live in those neighborhoods, it's not Port St. Lucy that's here. As you know, and I I cringed when you said, uh, come hat in
hand. You don't have to come hatin. We're we're the same group. It's not like you're coming from another county. You're our constituents. You're our residents. You're our taxpayers. And you're our friends. So that's first. The second point is that if it was not S's
point, if this neighborhood just happened to be something else in part of unincorporated Martin County, I personally think that the level of environmental um destruction of what is happening, uh
it would be an alarm. It would be an alarm. Now, that being said, it's also more of a multifaceted issue. So for folks that don't think like people that have heard your um explanation of your set of
circumstances and I will say that I have had [clears throat] I have had the opportunity to speak to nearly all of the elected commissioners and I appreciate you reaching out and your consultants and your administration and residents. Uh some of them I did not
know and several of them I'm very very friendly with. Um, if it was purely a flooding of the street issue in a sewer neighborhood, we would be addressing it. We have people here. I have people in Palm City
farms that came because the water during either extensive rain events or whatever the case may be. Our staff has been working in Rustic Hills and along, you know, Map Road, Northern Map Road in Palm City to address these issues of
flooded streets. No, not necessarily an environmental issue, just a quality of life issue. The streets are flooded. We can't get to our homes. We can't get out of our driveways. We're bringing pumps and we're doing all the other stuff. We did it in Hob Hills. We did it in Hope Heights. Uh when it was flooding issues
and there were concerns that the septic was coming up through those flooded issues, but they're not on the river or the estuary. So, if it's not about, as far as I'm concerned, if you came forward and said, "Our streets are flooding. Can you help us?" I think we would have to at least discuss that.
But you're also coming forward to saying look and and very few people except for Mr. Emerson and Mr. Capra are experts in this field. The rest of us are are just giving our opinions uh based on information and research that we might have had. But you don't have to have a
degree uh in engineering to realize that if you saturate your drain field with 24 in of water that it's going to percolate and stew into everything. One of your neighbors contacted me. Who
is it? Obviously, like we had heard this ground zero of lowlying properties to say after the water recedes, tons of it going into that drain directly into the into the river and the estuary, but after the water recedes and percolates back down, there is a black
slick on the grass and on the driveway. Now, one person, you know, some of you that are just arriving here for this agenda item, there was several people that spoke this morning at public comment. You don't have to be a biologist to realize that that black slick, if you
were to scoop it up and test it, got to be contaminated. It has to be. Whether it's your pets or yourselves or you're driving your car in it or whoever else is, you know, you're riding a bike through it, you're walking your dog through it, it can't be good. when we had that lost
summer uh and the folks from Rio came forward with the green algae and the slick alarm bells were sounding everywhere in Martin County on how horrible that set of circumstances were. The news media, it was national news.
I don't see that being so much different than what you are having to deal with on a relatively frequent basis. So even if you weren't on the river, if that was happening in your neighborhood, how do
we not participate? So I have a couple of questions. One, um, Mr. Daniels, you talked about an 8 to12,000 hookup fee. Is that similar to what Martin count
unincorporated Martin County residents have where it can be added to the taxes and it's paid out over a long period of time or is that a invoice? Who has that answer? >> I I believe it's an invoice, but the town can correct me. >> Straight up invoice invoice.
>> They can't Is there any way that they can do what we do and layer it into their >> into their assessment on their taxes to spread that out? Because if Look, I get everyone's going to say, "Well, it's a very affluent neighborhood. they all should be able to afford >> to to write a check. >> Commissioner, that's one of the items on
their previous slides was that they do not want any form of assessment. So >> I understand that. >> So in in order to do that methodology, it would have had to have been advertised last year uh in order for to do an avalar assessment. So none of that
work has been done. So um procedurally it's not um possible for them to do that >> for this particular round. Yes. >> And I get that. I think that and I'm just trying to one answer my own questions and two ask questions on behalf of the people that might be
watching at home and and have a better understanding of what your actual circumstances are. I had a a neighborhood in Palm City that their board was positive everyone in not a lot of homes, maybe 70, very affluent,
beautiful upscale neighborhood. Their board was positive it would pass overwhelmingly that everyone would want the water and sewer. It failed miserably. There's no way to count other people's money. There's no way to count
other people's set of circumstances. So the concept at SS Point should be able to just write these checks. I'm personally not counting any of your [clears throat] residents money to know if they could or they couldn't. If someone came and said, "Hey, you know, we'd like to do this project." Well, my system works perfectly and I'm high. I
don't want to write a $12,000 check. But what we have found even with residents in all of our communities that are much less financially uh not as well off. If you can spread it out, we started at 5 years and then it was 10 years and it's 15 years. It's some
people understand, look, I need to have this done and even if I don't, I understand that my neighborhood needs to have this done. So, let's figure out some finances. Well, maybe not now, but I don't think you're handling your whole situation. My second question is for Mr. Emerson, who I hold in the highest
regard, and a lot of what we have been able to accomplish that a lot of us get credit for as elected officials falls on Mr. Emerson and his team. They do all the heavy lifting. You said you didn't want to you wanted to make sure that there wouldn't be a
negative impact next month on Coral Gardens and potentially Port Serno and New Monrovia. What negative impact are you speaking of? >> For example, uh the cost uh those two projects will be assessed uh over a
20-year period. Uh and we know one of the neighborhoods had a concern with cost feasibility. They came to the board on a couple of occasions when we came for the final assessment for Newmanovia. >> New Monrovia. Yes. And so um that that from my perspective I I didn't want to
jeopardize that because many of those will be paying uh and like Coral Gardens and our other vacuum systems we completed. Uh we cap that at $12,000 per the board's policy. That that's our goal. Um, and so if these systems are installed and they come in to us for for
an account, open a sewer account, it's $8,000. We give a $1,000 discount from the EPA grant. Um, and there's also uh assistance through um SHIP and there's also assistance uh in financing through
the um solar and energy fund of of St. Lucy County. So there's some options there other than trying to put it on a tax bill at this point or on a utility bill. >> So that that was my personal concern. >> Okay. I I a lot of those programs I was part of the new Monrovia was here when
they came and some people were frustrated with us that we listened to what some had said. It was a smaller minority of the neighborhood and that the larger majority of the neighborhood was mad that we didn't go through with it. But again, our staff heard what those residents said, figured out a
plan, and came up with a much more of a a palatable opportunity option for them. I think in this particular case with the the grants, if people from SS Point could then potentially
compete for those grants, is that one of your concerns? >> No, I think Su's Point can I think many of them would qualify. No, I mean the little grants like the uh the affordable housing grants and the ones that you know the ship that's I'm not talking the
multi-million dollar grants. I'm talking the $1,500 grants the ship and the >> those apply countywide. >> Yes, I but you have to qualify for them and it's and they're based on you know the least amount of money that you make. Most I would I'm not saying for sure,
but most of the people in SS Point won't qualify for a SHIP grant, but if they did, there's no reason why they shouldn't get to qualify for the SHIP grant either. So, my original concern when I had had the calls, can you put the map back up, Miss Gordon? The one
from page 12. That one. Perfect. Yeah, [laughter] I think this really tells the story of who's in and who's out. So, whoever put this together and did the heavy the hard work of putting this together, good for you. This morning, we heard the most
dire set of circumstances is Riverview Drive, Palm Road, Kingston, and Oakwood. Can someone from SS Point show me where those are? >> The um No, I don't have Essentially, you see the blue circled area. >> Yep. >> That's the one that's going to be
gravity right next to that to the south to the right of it. All those neighbors neighborhoods there. There's >> as close to the blue square as possible. >> As close to the blue sc and basically the first line it says 74 connections. That's the limit to to those neighbors
right there. >> Okay. So, I'm wondering if I want to be careful. First of, I want to assist you because like I said in my opening comments, we're the same constituency. Um, but I want to be careful that we're
not pulling the rug out from somebody else that's already waiting in line. And I can speak from experience that I have stood in in community centers in Palm City where our residents are screaming because they had thought that they were, you know, it's all about, hey, you cut
me in line. Uh there are residents in P old Palm City that are also on the river, not on both sides, uh that have been waiting patiently in line as well. So in an effort to try to work out some kind of a compromise from one set of
residents to another, um I'm going to put you on the spot, Mr. Emerson. Is there a number that you feel comfortable with? Is it 134 and you can be the hero of the day and make that happen? or is that number like really
caused you great concern? >> You're the only one that can answer it. >> No, I I I I think I stated my concern earlier was how it might negatively impact some other projects we have ongoing because of the cost differential. Um, and initially when Don
and I spoke with Joe and Mr. Daniels, uh, we allowed 340 connections, met our policy, that was fine. Where'd that number come from? >> For lowlying areas. That's what uh Captech Engineering proposed. >> Okay. >> Uh and >> purple and gray.
>> The purple and the gray areas. And our our our recommendation was we would allow that obviously, but concentrate on the lowlying areas, the areas like we've heard about today that people have issues with. And even looking at the
additional 134 requests here, um I I don't know that all of those are having septic issues or in lowlying areas. So I just I just wanted to make that comment. Um >> Commissioner, if I could also just interject, there were a number of
communities that have existing dry um sewer lines. It's not just the only one. So um and and then looking at where they are today in the lowlying areas in the resiliency project,
if you connect those areas, you create an enclave between that and and uh and the point and at that point the remaining number um the 134. So if you're going to do a small amount, you leave an enclave that is difficult to
achieve by gravity because they don't have the existing gravity lines. Some of the streets in the lowlying area have existing gravity, but it's our understanding that it's difficult to to rehab those. So, you're stuck with the [snorts] fact that if you if you allow
the first 74 or so that's um in there, the remaining 50 plus um become an impertinent to the first amount because it's just impractical to do it any other way. So, um, >> it's 134 or not.
>> That's that's our opinion. You know, that's right. Mhm. And and it's and if it's not the, uh, 134, then, you know, if it's the knot, then the expectation is you're going to rehab all of the existing, um, gravity systems that exist to the
best of your ability. Um, and I think there are some grant restrictions that ultimately is part of the issue here that uh that makes it difficult for them to actually do the rehab on the gravity system and meet the grant requirements. So
>> if we do that number >> if I'm just saying that overall that's why we're here is because the grant requirement and uh not only restricts how they can do it um uh and what was available. So our original thought when
the original interlocal was was issued was that there would be more uh existing gravity systems rehabbed and the purpose of that was to lower the number of burden we have on the number of grinders that we have to maintain
as we are here today. Um I think if the finding is to make an approval um staff's uh opinion and when Sam and I met too you can uh is uh is that if you approve the lowlying area which is what
we heard about today the remaining enclave um really is no there's really no other way to address them other than with with grinder. So the 134 becomes becomes the the answer. Uh and leaving that leaves the the northern half of
South Su Point Road or uh of community uh um uh to be addressed in the future which I believe Mr. Caps addressed in his uh recommendation. >> Is that 156? >> Yes. Uh-huh. And um so my final comment
while I have the the the um the floor for a second, and that is should the board make a determination to approve or tentatively approve the 134 um before this comes back, we will need the board to make a finding to amend or
create an exception for your policy regarding the the number of uh policies, the number of grinder systems. and uh I would suggest the finding would have to I we can assist you with the the basis of that finding which would be
germanine to this particular project. Thank you. >> Thank you. So to wrap up my points my comments um we just heard how that number 134 is seems to be the number. My original goal was to find some kind of halfway point that we could address the
most uh difficult of the issues uh from my and and I get and I this is a conversation that's been going on for quite a while and I have had an opportunity to hear from our staff consistently and I really value their opinion but in this particular case for human health issues, for environmental
health issues, for quality of life issues and for the financial well-being of our residents that happen to also live Insul's point. I'm in favor of Commissioner Caps's motion.
>> Commissioner Heatherington. >> Yeah, I just we had a while back Adam Bladelock from D and I thought while you all are in the room, I think it's an important noteworthy um item that sometimes gets lost in this whole conversation. the fact that the Florida
D its 2030 initiative, it mandates by July 1st of 2030, either if you don't have sewer available, you will upgrade to an enhanced nutrient reducing septic system that achieves at least 65%
nitrogen reduction. If sewer is available, you will connect. The law was part of the Indian River Lagoon Protection Program and it aims at improving water quality. That's the state's initiative by 2030. So, if we
choose to do nothing, the state is I don't know how they're going to implement it, but they're going to implement water quality improvements. So, I I think that's an important noteworthy item and perhaps the D should be invited to your town as well to
explain this because I don't think a lot of residents realize that that's the case. >> Yeah, we have a cap on grinder uh installations for a very good reason. Um therefore, we have a policy that limits
grinder systems to the smaller systems to 340. It's not arbitrary. it's um its policy policy. So in uh 2022 in November of 2022,
the SuSpoint knew what our policy was that our grinder uh systems were limited to 340. You also had a uh a staff report that gave you four options. This is this is
before you applied for the grant. So knowing this information before you applied for the grant, you were offered one option which was all low pressure and grinder systems. It
was the cheapest one to $14 million even though the Sools Point Commission knew at the time that our policy limited grinders to 300 maximum. you knew that that was in violation of
our policies. That was your first option. The second one was a combination of gravity and uh uh sewer and and uh grinder, but the total cost of that was $25 million.
Third option was also a hybrid. It was $29 million and the final one was all vacuum. and knowing that the county that Martin County utilities had an exception had a limit on the grinders even though you
knew that you didn't come within that. The Sools Point Commission voted to approve that cheapest uh alternative option one that was in violation of our policy presuming that they were going to somehow convince us to violate our
policy or to change our policy. You also knew a year ago that in order not to do mandatory assessments on your residents in order to be able to be eligible for putting your assessments on your tax bills that you had to do
that prepare that a year ago and you didn't. So now we're here because in my opinion the SS point commission overpromised and therefore are underdelivering
and you put us in a bind to make an exception to our uh wellplanned policy which is a very difficult position to be in. And also you knew that these areas were lowlying. Why on earth were they not
included in as the first part of your connections? Why does Martin County have to make an exception to our policies because you didn't connect the right neighborhoods in the first place?
Commissioner Vargas, I think you stated this very well. I touched on it initially. Um and um this is grossly unfair to this commission to demand that we hurry up and get all this done. Hurry up. We we have till June
30th of 2026. Um people get assessments for improvements to their property. Uh we have a connect to pro protect program. Um and in a few short years was
already stated by another commissioner what's required by the state of Florida, but that's for less than 350 parcels. Um where the vacuum or gravity is not feasible. Um it may cost $16,000,
$18,000, whatever the cost is, we all have to pay whatever the going rate is. You miss the opportunities along the way. number of years. It's already been stated here. Um, and without going into a very lengthy soliloquy about anything
here, I I I feel very strongly that we cannot put on our director and say this has to be done right away because we made a very bad error. You you paid another company and my understanding is you didn't follow what they had suggested. You paid them $75,000 for an
analysis. I have here a draft copy. That's what I have before I took office. So, I had a conversation already with several of the commissioners, uh, Mr. Daniels included, um, as the the manager,
and I I don't quite understand why you didn't prevent this, why you just decided, let's just come at the last moment. It's been continuous over the years since before I got here. I feel very strongly about this not to
deviate from our program. >> Any further questions or comments? There's a motion on the floor and a second. All those in favor? >> I >> opposed. Opposed. That motion passes 32 with commissioners Vargas and Herd desenting. Uh we're now going to break
for lunch. We will return at 1:30. [applause] Part: 2
We are back taking a public hearing number one which is a legislative public hearing to consider transmitt of comprehensive plan amendment 21-11 wide text a text amendment and I want to remind commissioners this is a legislative public hearing not quasi
judicial so we have some more discretion staff. Miss Nai, are you leading us off here? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Good afternoon, commissioners. My name is Jenna Nabi, senior planner with the growth management department. And before you this afternoon is comprehensive plan
amendment 21-11, the wide text amendment. This is requested by Lucido and Associates on behalf of the owner Caner 96th Street Investments LLC and South Florida Gateway Industrial LLC. And before we get into the specifics of
this text amendment, I'm going to turn it over to Clyde who will do some background and history for this project. >> Good afternoon, members of the board. My name is Clyde Dulan, your comprehensive planning administrator. Uh this property has some history. Um, we're going to
consider a sightsp specific text amendment here. Miss Nabi is going to go into the staff report before we even get into these these slides that you see on the on the screen. Um, this property can you go ahead? Uh, has some history to
it. Before the wateride plan amendment was filed in 2021, there was uh there were two plan amendments that preceded. Um the sight specific text amendment that we're going to talk about today uh is applicable, but the before this there
was a future land use map amendment and an expansion of the primary urban service district to cover that area you see in blue and in yellow. Uh the blue is commercial waterfront. The yellow was industrial and that was done in 2010.
Then uh in 2019 the industrial and the commercial waterfront were taken off and industrial was assigned to this area here on the closer to Caner Highway. This was a total 499 acres that that was
formerly known as the Neil property. Uh and then the land use was was swapped out and the industrial was moved over here and a freestanding industrial urban service district was created. Um and it looked like this. Uh then following that there were some
additional changes and Miss Na'vi would you go back to your your slide deck and uh the proposed uh text amendment and future land use map amendment we're we're here to talk about here in the next couple public hearings started in 2021 and you see the proposed change to
uh from the agricultural to the to the lowdensity residential that wrapped around here u was and the text amendment that was that was proposed to be applicable to that. The amendments at that time in 2121 did not include any of this property that you see here where my
cursor is. And then um see the applicant proposed to change the industrial and rearrange the freestanding urban service district. As you can see, it stayed 250 acres uh but it was rearranged some which caused the proposed residential
around it and the all the the text amendments concurrent to change. to look more like this. And as you can see, there was a lot of overlap. They didn't all fit together. The puzzle pieces didn't fit together real well because of the changes that were going on, as you can see in 2023.
Then in 2024, things all got into alignment so that the land uses and the between the industrial and the residential were all lined up with each other. And so the 2024 submitt straightened all that out. And um we're now coming forward today to talk to you
about a text amendment that's applicable to those properties on the screen as you see for the area in orange wrapped around the industrial and including the industrial as far as the change to the primary urban service district. So that's just a little bit of background
and a little history taking you from 2009 up through today in 2024. So in this text amendment request, there are uh numerous amendments to chapters 1, 2, 4, and 11 of the comprehensive
growth management plan. This text amendment is concurrent with a future land use or flume amendment uh to um the property that is outlined um in red here and has that orange designation
and that is CPA 21-12 wateride flume. So because there are a lot of moving pieces if you will and moving parts to this text amendment um to make it easier to explain and to understand we've broken it into three
different um categories or components and we'll go into each of those. So the first are sight specific policies that are applicable to the proposed residential land. The second is the expansion of the primary urban service district and the subsequent elimination of the freestanding urban service
district. And the third component are amendments to the residential capacity analysis methodology. And in addition to the text and uh policies and sections of the comp plan that are proposed for amendment, there are three figures as well and uh
proposed for amendment. And those are figures 4-2 urban service district, figure 11-1 areas currently served by regional utilities and figure 11-2 potential service areas. So, this is an aerial location map of
the subject properties. Outlined in red is the wide property. It's about 396 acres, and this has the uh proposed residential use on it. And then next to it in outlined in yellow is about 250 acres of land with an industrial future
land use designation. This is within the freestanding urban service district. And so you can generally see that this property in its totality is located south of Southwest 96th Street, west of Southwest Caner Highway, west of Southwest Pratt Whitney Road, and there
is a small frontage of the wateride property that is adjacent to the St. Lucy Canal. So this is the existing future land use map of both of these properties. The wateride property currently has an agricultural future land use.
And then the proposed future land use that you'll hear in the next public hearing has the uh land use proposed for lowdensity residential. And this is just to give some context for the existing conditions on the property. So moving into the sight specific
policies, there are amendments to policy 4.1b2 in chapter 4 that are specific to the proposed residential land. That's the subject of the concurrent uh flume amendment. And so there are four subsections that are uh proposed for
addition in this policy. The first is that the residential unit shall be limited to a maximum of 150 units. The second is uh prior to the issuance of the 100th building permit, a monetary contribution of $1,000 per residential unit shall be donated to the Martin
County Community Land Trust. The third is that all future applications for development approval shall be processed as a planned unit development or PUD. And the fourth is that the owner developer shall plan and appropriately fund public facilities consistent with policy 14.1b2
which requires that future developments pay the full cost of capital facilities needed to address the impacts of such development. The second component of this text amendment request is the expansion of the primary urban service district. This proposed expansion covers approximately
646 acres. That's because it involves the 396 acres of proposed residential land and the adjacent 250 acres of industrial. And so with that expansion also covering the industrial, there's um
that land would be converted from the freestanding urban service district designation to uh become part of the primary if the primary is expanded over that property. So, in order to make sure everything is consistent and there's no internal inconsistencies in that regard,
there are four policies listed here in chapter 4 that would remove reference to the freestanding urban service district uh if this land were to become part of the primary urban service district. And to uh depict that expansion of the primary, there are amendments to figures
4-2, 11-1, and 11-2 that would show this expansion of the primary urban service district. This is an excerpt of the proposed figure 4-2, which is the urban service district's map. The pink color on this figure denotes the primary urban service
district designation. The purple color here where my cursor is is the secondary urban service district. So in this exhibit, the red outlined property uh that's proposed residential and the black outlined property that's the industrial would all become part of the
primary with this proposed amendment. And I just wanted to clarify for the record as well that where um my cursor is circling right here, there are five lots that are south of Southwest 96th Street that in this figure show that they have that pink color. They would be
part of the primary, but they are currently not part of the primary urban service district and they are not part of this amendment. So, I just wanted to clarify that um that prior to um adoption or transmitt that that pink
color would need to be removed from those lots. This is the proposed figure 11-1. The blue boundary designates the primary urban service district and this warmer brown color uh denotes the same. So with
the proposed amendment to this figure, these two properties in their entirety would become part of this blue outline and become part of the primary urban service district with that designation and that um brown color as well. And a very similar amendment to the
proposed figure 11-2. The blue outline denotes the primary and that brown color as well. So these properties are proposed to be part of that. Policy 4.787 in chapter 4 provides eight criteria that the board must analyze
anytime there is a proposed expansion of the primary urban service district. staff did analyze these criteria during our review of these application materials and we concluded that uh compliance with criterias one two and
five had not been met by this application. Criteria one states that the application will not create any internal inconsistency with other elements of the adopted comprehensive growth management plan. Number two is will not result in incompatibilities
with adjacent land uses. And number five is demonstrate that reasonable capacity does not exist on suitable land in the existing primary urban service district for the 20-year planning period. And the third and final component of this text amendment application are
amendments to the methodology for the residential capacity analysis. These amendments proposed by the applicant span three different chapters of the comp plan. It's chapters 1, 2, and four. So, we've listed the sections of text
and policies that are proposed for addition here. Um, in chapter 1, there's four different sections. In chapter 2, there are new definitions added and existing definitions proposed for amendment. And then in chapter four, there are seven policies and sections
proposed. So, these are um pretty complicated and complex amendments. We didn't want to go into too nitty-gritty detail here, but if you have any specific questions on those, we can certainly address those. And in conclusion, staff recommends
denial of the applicant's proposed text amendments. The basis for staff's recommendation is that compliance with policy 4.787 subsections 1, 2, and 5 have not been demonstrated for expansion of the primary urban service district. The
proposed amendments to sections and um policies in chapters 1 and four are not clear. Until a methodology is applied and words describing calculations become calculations, it is unclear the result and elements of the proposed amendments
to the population technical bulletin and the residential capacity analysis methodology would likely result in multiple internal inconsistencies within the text of the comprehensive growth management plan. And that concludes staff's presentation. Members of the board, if I could add one
more item. Uh, I forgot to mention in the intro, uh, before you can consider an expansion of the primary urban service district, the plan policy requires that the residential capacity analysis be updated. And as you may remember, uh, we presented an update to
the residential capacity analysis for your consideration and adoption, and that has been done, and it is included in your package. So, I just wanted to put that on the record. Thank you. questions for Miss Nabi or Mr. Doulan.
>> Applicant. >> Uh, good afternoon, Tyson. >> Tyson Waters, um, from the law firm of Fox McCluskey here on behalf of the applicant, uh, Caner 96 Street Investments. Um, I want to thank staff for giving a nice overview and as they mentioned, we're here today for actually two applications. the first being a text
amendment and the second being a future land use amendment request to change the agriculture land use to lowdensity residential. Uh the text amendment is broken into three parts. The first part is this um what we believe are revisions to a flawed residential capacity
analysis. So our efforts here today are to improve that and to correct it so you have a a more succinct and accurate capacity analysis. Uh second is the proposal to incorporate 396 acres into the primary urban service district and
convert the freestanding industrial part into the primary urban service district as well. And then third is the sub area policy to regulate future development on those 396 acres. Um we have submitted affidavit from two of our consultants to be part of the record. Um if you need
hard copies, we have those with us today as well as those consultants are here should you have any questions at the end of our presentation. Um and then finally as mentioned the next agenda item is this future land use amendment to convert the agricultural land to low density resol to low density
residential. And I think we understand and staff may be able to stipulate as well that that future land use amendment to convert the land to low density residential is in fact contingent upon the approval of at least a portion of this text amendment. And so with all
that overview and housekeeping, I'd like to ask Morris Krady to come to the podium to provide the presentation for you. >> Thank you, Tyson. Again, for the record, my name is Morris Krady and a little bit of my background. I'm senior partners with Ledce and Associates. I was a county staff planner uh for 10 years
from uh 1982 till 1990. And then I've been on the outside working as a professional land planner almost exclusively in Martin County uh for the past 43 years and started work on uh in Martin County on April 1st, 1982, the day the first comprehensive plan was
adopted and worked for the following eight years creating implementation policies for the comprehensive plan. And then um I'm going to go through um some of the issues and and contentions that I have uh with the county's staff report. uh we do have a lot of areas of
agreement but we also have some disagreement and I obviously disagree with their recommendation of denial and I'll go over those reasons. Then following my presentation we have Laura Smith with JI Consultants who worked long and hard on preparing a residential
capacity analysis we believe is a fair representation of what's left in Martin County and based on current best management practices in Florida statutes. But first, I think location is everything in this particular application. And I want to make sure everyone is clear on the location. I
think staff did a great job of of of um explaining some of the uh background and history of the property. But we're talking about Wateride PUD. This is the 396 acres that's surrounded in green. You can see all of this property has been impacted by previous agricultural
activity. Uh there's no sensitive wetlands, no sensitive upland habitat on the site. There are the headquarters of Robuck Creek that run through this area right here and and that is a critical um uh uh flowway from Martin County and we
believe our application better protects that flowway. But we also are adjacent across the street on 96th Street. This is St. Lucy Falls which is a mobile home park at 8 units per acre. This is River Forest um and in River Marina which are
again at I think their their densities 8 to 10 units per acre. This is a commercial marina. I think the county just recently approved some type of activity here to allow barge activity to be loaded here. And then over on this side, we have um Crystal Lake Elementary
School. Um there's a storeway facility on this corner. There's this uh the convenience store, gas station on this corner. Uh this corner was approved um for a public shopping center. Has not been built yet. I think they're waiting on additional housetops before they pull the trigger, but there is a need out
there now for a shopping center. And this area here is not included. You know, we'll go in that in a little more detail, but this is the um the South Florida Gateway Industrial Park. It includes um South Florida Gateway. It includes the 30 acres of the county
industrial site in this location and uh it includes Southwest Gateway Place, which is a signalized intersection at this location. Southwest Neil Street and Southwest Wateride Way, which the county is building to provide access to the 30
acre facility. Um, this is the existing land use map as was mentioned. This is estate density land use here. This is commercial limited and general commercial location here. Um, uh, again, Southwest 96 Street. This is
agricultural ranchet that's located between uh the primary urban service district and the freestanding urban service district. And these are the um six single family lots that somehow ended up with agricultural land use even though the lots are only 2 acres in size
um that are located um adjacent to the 396 acres. And then again, what we've shown here is the rural lifestyle land use that um that uh um supports the three lakes PUB. And give you a little
more context, this is the actual map of the urban service district, the existing urban service districts. um were bounded on um on this side by the primary urban service district um almost a mile of frontage and also on this end by the
freestanding urban service district which is this right here. So we're we're surrounded by the freestanding and and and primary urban service district on about 60% of our site and and the rural lifestyle is important because it was
created to kind of contain the urban boundary and uh and we know that these projects are legacy projects. They're not going anywhere. So, uh it will prevent the uh the any any attempt to um to increase the urban boundary beyond this this particular point. And this
actual this 200 acres here was recently purchased by the owners of Apogee and will hopefully be added to rural lifestyle sometime in the future. And then along the west is the St. Lucy Canal. Um, this is a map of Martin County Utilities and and blue here is
the Martin County Service Area within the primary urban service district and blue here is the Martin County utility service area within the freestanding urban service district. Um, along the roadway on Caner Highway, there's water
and sewer lines available. Um, along 96th Street, there's water and sewer lines that are constructed within the project South Florida Gateway. There's water and sewer lines. And so this this site is completely surrounded by Martin County utilities and their service
areas. And this is another uh graphic that shows how much we're surrounded by uh uses other than agriculture. Um we're surrounded by uh existing residential uses in blue. Um we're surrounded by
developed industrial uses. in this location by vacant industrial uses at this location. Uh rural lifestyle along this edge uh the St. Lucy Canal here and this is commercial uh frontage um in in
this location. So we're only only about 3300 ft is actually bordered by agricultural lands and those lands um have been acquired by uh three lakes for addition to their project in the future. Um, these are agricultural lands, but
you can see they're not being used for agriculture. They're used for single family uh uh home sites. Uh, they have water and sewer in front of them, I think it's a it's a travesty that the county hasn't included these properties in the urban boundary and given their
ability to to utilize water and sewer because uh their their septic tanks discharge directly into the the headarters of Robuck Creek. Um so all of these properties should be on water and sewer just by their proximity to the urban boundary.
So the total site areas was as was mentioned in the in the 396 acres that we want to change from agriculture to low density and add to the urban service district. It's it's bounded by almost 88% on its borders by non-aggricultural
uses. It's only bound by 12% um on the one border to the south. Um and that use is in pasture land. There's no active agriculture on any of these properties surrounding the property. We're adjacent to the urban service districts on about 60% of our boundary. Um we're look we're
currently agriculture we're we we are requesting low density, but we're willing to set the um the the cap on that density at 2.65 units per acre instead of the five units per acre that's usually allowed. And I just want to mention that you we're not urban
sprawl under any definition. If you go to Florida statutes, um they have a enclave standards which provide that any property that is surrounded by more than 75% non-aggricultural uses is deemed an ad a enclave and therefore cannot be
considered urban sprawl. So we're essentially a um an infield property within the urban service boundary that's designated for agricultural use. Uh we're adding uh 646 acres to the
primary urban service district, but that includes the 396 uh acres um within the Caner 96 investment property and 250 acres in the counties in in the existing freestanding urban service district which includes 216 acres of South
Florida Gateway, the Martin County Industrial Sites about 29 acres and the Waterideway public rideway is 5 acres. So that's the land that will be converted to urban uses. Um again, this is the existing urban boundary. Uh this
is what we think it should go to. And again, these these properties, the county should be proactive and include these properties within the primary urban service district and get them off of of a well and septic tank as soon as possible. Uh that would be the right
thing to do. Um but I do want to go back about 15 years ago. So, um, this is the existing land use, but uh, this was the land use in 2010. I didn't get involved with the Neil family until 2018. And apparently the commission did this in
2010 um, in response to the recession. There was an attempt to create some economic activity and there was the thought that um, the waterfront use could be developed and this could become industrial and the waterfront would play into the St. Lucy Canal and all that.
But when I got involved in 2018 with Nancy Neil, she has tried for 10 years to get something to be done on this property and no one was was interested. One, because there's a 16 acre perpetual Army Corps easement that runs from 96th
Street all the way to our frontage that prevents any permanent buildings on our property. Um, so, so when I came in 2018 to fix this problem, what what we what we decided to do and the county agreed was to move this 175 acres of
industrial, 75 acres of waterfront commercial that couldn't be used to the to uh the frontage along Caner Highway because all of the people that Nancy had talked to wanted the frontage on Caner Highway. That's where the that's where the industry wanted to be and and that's
what we worked for a few years to to to remove the commercial waterfront and the industrial and relocate it um at this location. But I I want to mention though that this was part of the primary urban service district. This 250 acres in 2010
was part of the primary urban service district. um we couldn't just move it over to the 250 acres here because we had this parcel which is outside the primary urban service district. So the only reason we created a freestanding urban service district be was because
the county was not willing to include these agricultural ranchets into the primary urban service district and we can't have a primary urban service district that's disconnected from another primary urban service district. That's what how the freestanding urban service district got there. It's been
extremely successful. You know what what happened over as soon as we made that move. We were able to develop what's out there today and it's has the potential of employing 4 to 500 people in that at in South Florida Gateway the county parcel has the potential to employ two
to 300 people. Apogee and say and the ranch project to the south there's another 500 people that could be employed. Um, so again, we see we see this site as an infield residential site that could accommodate the needs of
housing in this particular area. We went through the three purposes of the text amendment. We're we're trying to amend the residential capacity and population estimate methodology to make it realistic and reasonable. And we'll go over that in a moment in a little more detail. We're converting the 250 acres
of the freestanding urban service district to primary urban service district. And we're converting the 396 acres of agricultural use to primary urban service district and restricting that density to no more than 2.65 units
per acre. So again, this is how figure 4-2 looks currently. Um, we're simply trying to fill in the gap here. It would not include these these those out parcels, and I'll get to that in a moment. Um this is the actual language that we're
proposing uh within the text amendment to um restrict the uses on the 396 acres again to,50 units. Uh we're willing to pay $1,000 per residential units or over a million dollars to help the county
with affordable housing projects. And we're willing to contribute that money to the Martin County Community Land Trust since they've seemed to have taken the lead on affordable housing. Um, and probably the most well two that we're also willing to do any future project as a plan unit development so the county
can negotiate public benefits with the developer. But most importantly, what we're we're committed to is is item D that the owner developer is going to pay the full cost of the capacity needed to fund this project. We're not putting any of that liability on the county
taxpayers or on the county government. We've committed to to uh to to to pay for if there's if there's road capacity needed then then for this project then on 96 street then the developer will pay for that. If there's water and sewer extensions that need to be made to
facilitate this project the developer will pay for that. We've already been in conversations with the county utilities department. They would love to have well sites on this property to increase their capacity for water treatment. Um, so there's nothing that the county
taxpayers would be liable for in this particular case. Now, there are criteria and the comp plan was never intended to stop growth. When you fill up the urban service district, there are specific criteria that allow the expansion of the urban service district. And these are
policy decisions that the board has to make at some time in the future. If not now, then it's going to it's going to creep up very quickly. Um, but staff agrees with all of our responses to all but three of the eight criteria and I'm going to go through those quickly.
The the first one is internal inconsistency with other elements of the adopt the comprehensive plan where we're changing the the um policies in the comprehensive plan regarding residential capacity because we think they are flawed. And I'll tell you in a moment why we think they're flawed. But so
there's not going to we're not going to be consistent with the existing policies that deal with population or residential capacity. Um we have uh removed any dup duplicative posity uh policies. We've updated the policies as staff mentioned
in all the sections that where there were conflicts with um the freestanding urban service district or with uh the the the services in the area. So we we believe that issue has been resolved. The other reason for the staff's determination of consistency is it's
unclear how industrial traffic from the adjacent industrial lands would be restricted. Now when we change the location of those industrial lands from the canal to the Caner Highway, one of the reasons we did that is because the people that live on 96th Street did not
want Let me see if I have it. Yeah. When we made this change, one of the reasons we couldn't develop to begin with was because the access was limited to 96th Street and none of these people want industrial traffic on 96th Street. So, we we self-imposed a policy into the
text of the amendment that prevented any any of our industrial traffic from ever being able to use 96 Street. And we did that by building roads. uh Gateway Place, Neil Street, Word of Sideway. These are all interconnected. There is
really no basis for the county to assume that this would create a conflict with this policy. We're not changing that sub area policy plan. We're still going to restrict. We don't want industrial traffic on 96th Street anymore than the people on 96th Street want industrial
traffic. So there's no basis for the staff assuming there's some kind of consistency issue with this particular um uh policy that we self-imposed on oursel. There's no there's no traffic that can be or no industrial traffic
through a PUD design. We can prevent industrial traffic um from accessing 96 street with no problem whatsoever. Uh the other criteria that staff disagrees with is that we would create incompatibilities with adjacent land uses. Now they do admit that a PUD may
be used to ensure compatibility is considered during site plan design and site plan approval process. And we can we've done that with PUDS. We can create buffers. We can create lakes. And in fact, we created this this whole industrial uh PUD with the thought of
having residential in the back. So, we have significant buffers on the county's property that they purchased on our property. We've created lakes and other physical barriers between what we would hope to be future residential land in the back. Um, and and so we don't think
there's any um issue with the industrial land or the adjacent agricultural land. Now, the county is concerned about the an an enclave being created by the single family lots that are within the agricultural areas on 96th Street and on
Caner Highway. And again, you know, these are the parcels that they're talking about. Uh these parcels are twoacre lots, single family. They're adjacent to water and sewer lines. They should be put inside the urban service district just because of good planning,
proactive planning. Same with these parcels. Um they're already agricultural enclaves. We're an agricultural enclave. We're trying to fix that but with this application and we can also fix this these parcels. Um the single family locks along 90 street. They're not
agricultural uses and they're adjacent to water and sewer. They should be entitled to the same services that someone lives across the street from them are entitled to. Whether it's fire, police protection, uh water and sewer, they're right across the street. They
they should not be ignored. And in fact, there's a policy in your comprehensive plan today that allow the PS the primary urban service district boundaries to be extended a maximum of 660 ft without a comprehensive plan amendment. You can do that today. You can take care of those
lots and put them on water and sewer today without a comp plan amendment. That would be a proactive reaction to um allowing those parcels to continue to use well and septic tanks right at the headquarters of the of of Robuck Creek.
And again, the PUD process will ensure compatibility. It will provide public benefits that will deal with some of these um adjacent properties and help them get off water and sewer and onto uh water I mean get off of well and septic and onto water and sewer. Um, again,
this is what we would like to see and and the county has the right to bring these parcels into the primary urban service district, provide them with the same level of service that everybody around them gets, including water and sewer without a comp plan amendment. You can do that today.
Um, now the county staff does agree that we will not adversely impact environmental, natural, historical, or archaeological resources. Um, so we in we're in agreement. this is the right location from an environmental perspective and um there's no there's no
argument there and we're also in agreement that we're consistent with goal 4.9 related to appropriate residential land use capacities. Um by putting low density residential on this property, you allow a range a variety of housing types, not
just single family. You can do town homes, you can do apartments under the peed, you can do whatever is needed in the area to support the surrounding employment centers. Um staff agrees that that we do have the ability with this
land use to provide um u residential housing consistent with goal 4.9. So there's no disagreement with that. Probably the biggest disagreement is with re with what with with policy five or criteria five that that requires us to demonstrate that reasonable capacity
exists. And I'm highlighted reasonable capacity because staff just read the first sentence. They they didn't read the second sentence and I'll go into that in more detail in a moment. You've got to understand that reasonable means available for development from the standpoint of environmental concerns,
efficient use and expansion of public facilities and services or availability of development sites in relationship to the projected needs of the population. We evaluated that second part. Staff did not. They only looked at the numbers. We but we also provided a residential
capacity and in our in our study, we showed that there's only 64% capacity for the 15-year period. Now Laura is going to go into the fact that she did extend that out for the 20 years per the county's change to the year amendment. So it gets worse in five years as as the
updated residential capacity that was presented by Metro Forecasting showed. But again, we believe our residential capacity is an accurate representation of where the county is today and where they will be in 10 years
and in 20 years. Now the county did update the residential capacity and it was it it was well actually first of all they denied the application based on the December 20 23rd residential capacity which so there was you had 237%
of the projected demand through 2035. Um so they concluded that there is sufficient supply for the 10-year and 15-year primary urban service district and there was no need to expand the district at this time. Now they did update that
two weeks ago on November 4th. David Farmer while I was here presented his analysis that showed that uh the unincorporated areas of the Eastern Primary Urban Service District had capacity for 148%. So that 237 237% went down rather significantly to 148%. But
that takes the projected demand out through 2045 because you had to go out 20 years from 2025 based on the year amendment. But that shows a significant reduction in capacity. But it also concludes that the capacity in the
secondary urban service district falls to 68% of the projected demand in 2045. So the so the even under the county's revised residential capacity analysis according to your policy 4-1D6
that when the either the primary urban service district or the secondary urban service district fails to meet the capacity demands for the 10-year population projected then the county is required to expand capacity. I didn't make that up. that's in your policy and
you've proven with your own residential capacity that we're falling below 100% of the demand for in the secondary urban service district. But that's only the minor problem. We're what the county staff didn't analyze and what I think you got to really look at seriously is
what is really available for development. And when the comprehensive plan defines reasonable capacity, it's looking at environmental concerns. It's looking at efficient use and expansion of public facilities and services. It's looking at availability of development
sites in relationship to the projected needs of the population. The county staff did not do that analysis. They did not look at what is reasonable capacity. They just looked at the just looked at the unit count. You know, we went further and we looked at what is reasonable.
Um, we have demonstrated in the county staff concerns, at least on this piece of property, that there is no environmental concerns on this piece of property. We've shown, we demonstrated the county staff concerns that if you're going to expand public facilities and
services, which is probably a good site because we have water and sewer services all the way around the property, surrounded by surrounded by the property. So, it does make sense. We're across the street from urban services and facilities. And again, the the county must look at the availability
development sites in relationship to the projected needs of the population. We know we've created employment opportunities on this site. We know there's a thousand jobs to be generated over the next 5 years. The county staff concur conc concurs that the water side property and this is a quote is suitable
based upon the location adjacent to the primary urban service district and proximity to employment, cultural centers, fire and police protection and the avoidance of adverse impacts to natural resources. They agree and we
know that now from a going to the county back to the county's residential capacity analysis. There's there's sites. I know the sites. I've worked here for 40 years. I know what's left. I work with developers every every day and they go through the same parcel over and over again because there's significant
constraints with what's left in the county's urban service. This is just one example. A 40acre site looks like a great infill site. It's right there behind the Treasure Coast Mall north of Brit Road. It happens to be right in the direct area of a flowway that runs from
West Jensen, then feeds all of the drainage from the mall down to uh what this is called Brick Creek, I believe. Um but that's that's a major flowway and under and and not only does it have wetland issues, which I'll go into in a
moment, it also has access issues. The only access to this 40acre site is through a 50-foot access easement between two single family homes. So, if you want to build this site, you've got to you've got to put a road through through between two single family homes
or build a road through a 30foot ride ofway that's currently used for drainage purposes um in order to access behind these lots in order to get to this parcel. So, it's compromised um on on all levels, but but in the
county applying their 50% is wet. They believe that according to their map, 50% of the properties wet. You can build 125 units on this site. They don't consider the water and sewer availability. They're not considering access issues. This
again, they would have to build a road through this 30-foot rideway behind all these homes to access this parcel. or they have a 50-ft access easement here. But the real problem is it's not buildable. This this land is is wet. It's a major flowway that serves
hundreds of acres of properties. The only usable land is a is is this little land here, a little land here, and a little land here. And how do I know this? Because I worked on the property next door. This is the Falls development. And I and and I I looked at this property for several developers during that time, and I know other
people have looked at it, too. You're not going to build 125 units on this site. >> I'm saying that the maximum is 10 units and that's only if you can get access between these properties. You can bring in water and sewer and you can provide drainage and a 75 ft buffer adjacent to
this wetland. Now, if you can do all that, you can build 10 units, but you'll never build 125 units on this 30 acre site. Um, on top of that, well, why don't you do multif family or why don't you do town homes? Well, the density transition policies in the in the comprehensive plan prevent anything but
single family homes adjacent to single family homes. So, this property is useless. But the county's in their current analysis that was adopted on Tuesday. If you look up the low density category, there's 62 vacant acres. Well, I just showed you 30 acres that can't be
built on. And the county is assigning 268 units to that low density land. and the other the other acreage are very small parcels scattered throughout the county that will never yield 268 units. Um, even under the uh the core
commercial office residential, you have 82 acres. Well, 35 of those acres is in the Aquarius property next to the uh Martin or the the hospital site off of Salerno Road. And according to the county's figures, you can you can build
350 units on that site. Um again these these are not realistic and and the county that you know what's really bad the county doesn't provide any location of where this vacant property is. They don't provide any analysis of whether it's buildable or not. And the sad part is I know they
have the technology the technology to do that. I know that metro forecasting has the modeling ability to really evaluate what's vacant and determine what can really be built on the property but their hands are tied. They can't use best management practices because
they're they're tied to a formula in the comprehensive plan that overestimates supply and underestimates need. And this is just a clear example. You're not going to get 1,890 units on vacant land. It's not reasonable. And you have to
look at what's reasonable in your comprehensive plan. Another thing we did, I looked at the all the properties that I worked on over the past 10 years. There's have been 11 properties and and just to see how much of those we achieve maximum density and I applied the county's wetland density transfer and
everything else to it and these are we come out with an average of 60% is what we're achieving of maximum density. The county is saying we get 100% every time. It's not true. The the only time we came close to 100% was on the reserve at Jensen Beach apartment which is off of
Savannah Road. There's no wetlands. There's no issue of density transition zone, but you have to build to three stories. In order to get any of these kind of 100% densities, you got to build to three stories. And I know Ryo Town Center is a good example, but they couldn't get to their density without
building three-story apartments. That's not necessarily what Martin County wants, but if you but that's the only way you can get uh to the numbers that the county is proposing in their residential capacity analysis. It's just not realistic. And I can go back 10
years before this and show you the same numbers over and over again. The county should look at what's realistic when they're doing these these residential capacity studies. It's definitely not reasonable to expect to build 2,000 over 2,000 units in the
CRAAS. That means 500 units in the Palm City CRA, 500 units in the Hope Sound CRA, 500 units in the Jensen Beach CRA. And the county saying you're going to approve these one day. 263 units in the CRAAS. You guys aren't going to do that.
It took Rio Town Center six years with this existing developer to get the approval. It sat idle for 15 years prior to that because nobody could touch it. I mean, thank God for Charlie Modkai. He's the only one that could pull off that. But if you if you're going to assume you
can build 2,000 units in the in the CRAAS, then you're you're looking at that's not unreal. It's not realistic. You're not going to put three-story buildings all over the CRAAS. And it's not only it's not only physically not possible because a lot of
the CRAAS have only a two twotory height limit. It's political suicide if you guys do that. And I think you guys know that you're not going to put 500 units of pump. You just talked about the day buying property in the CRA because you don't think it's suitable for development. And and that's how we should be looking at. We should buy the
property that's not suitable for development and put development on property that's already been impacted. And the last thing I got to say is that it's not reasonable to say that 4,145 units in Newfield is going to be built in 10 years or even 20 years. Our
capacity analysis evaluated the absorption rate of Martin Downs DRRi. It took 35 years to build 2500 units in Martin Downs. West Jensen, we looked at that absorption rate. It took 23 years to build 1,200 units. Neither one of
those pro projects met their maximum allowances. They all built hundreds of units less than what was allowed. So to say that you're going to build that all of your capacity, all of your future capacity is tied up in one project. You know, again, some of that's going to get
built, but you can't use all 4,145 units to say you're going to meet your 10 and 20 year capacity. It doesn't it it's just not realistic, and it's not reasonable. Um, now that's the that's the criteria five. The county staff agrees that we meet
criteria six. Again, it's environmental. You know, the the land is impacted. there's no problem with um any impact on endangered species. So the site the 396 acres is appropriate for urban development and
we agree. And also in number seven, the county staff agrees that we're going to pay the full cost of the development impacts by agreeing to the text that we that we put in our um proposed amendment that would require the developer to pay
the full cost of capital facilities needed to address the impacts of such development. So we're really the only thing that's hanging up this and again that's the same thing with the criteria 8. Uh the county staff recognizes that we're going to amend the capital
improvement plan if necessary to accommodate the needs of this project. So really the only thing that we're that that really we're hanging up on is the residential capacity analysis. And uh I'm going to let Laura Smith with GIA Consultants talk about some of the flaws
in the current methodology and then uh I think Tyson's going to wrap it up after that. So >> nothing left to say. Good afternoon. My name is Laura Smith. I am a senior associate with GI Consultants and I serve as our urban analytics director within our community
solutions group. Um I've been a professional consultant for the last 11 years and before that I spent seven years as a professional municipal planner in um local government. I also sit on the Lake County Planning and Zoning Board. I have been a board member there for 11 years. I sit on the Florida
Redevelopment Association board of directors am and and am also a designated redevelopment administrator within the Florida Redevelopment Association. I am also a member of the counselors of real estate and a certified instructor with the Florida Redevelopment Academy.
>> Busy. >> Yes. Needless to say, I'm busy. >> So, what I want to talk to you about today is the residential capacity analysis methodology. um primarily because we were approached uh or I was approached by your applicant
to essentially attempt to replicate the residential capacity analysis that is described in your growth management plan. So I was tasked with can you run this methodology out and conduct a capacity analysis and make a determination since one had not recently
been done at that time. This was in 2023. So I did that to the best of my abilities. However, the methodology does present several flaws or errors that had to be adjusted for. So I had to make substitutions, adjustments or
alterations that were what I felt to be improfessional best practices standards, but also that were reliable and accurate supplements where data either does not exist or is not available as described in your methodology. So, I'd like to
start by identifying just a few of those significant flaws, then walking you through what the text amendment that we're proposing for the residential capacity analysis language in your comprehensive plan actually does in real time so that you can understand what
that math looks like. And I assure you the intent of all of those text amendment pieces where we talk about you know chapters 1, chapter 2, chapter 4 and these extensive text amendments is actually to resolve many of those errors or flaws and bring them into a
consistent system that you all can follow that your staff can easily follow and that will not create these types of hurdles for you going forward and lay out a more direct planning path for you all looking forward into the future. to respond to the growth that is coming
into Florida every day. So, first and foremost is the population technical bulletin. So, in section 1.7.8 of your comprehensive growth management plan, it requires that your population technical bulletin be produced and
adopted by the county commission every year and that the methodology for producing that be clear and available to the public for review. Now, this bulletin is important. It is important because it provides the data that your
residential capacity methodology relies upon. It's actually stipulated in your comprehensive growth management plan. Use the data from the population technical bulletin. So the bulletin that was just adopted earlier this month, the 2025 bulletin is
the first population technical bulletin that has been produced since 2017. So in the seven years since then, a bulletin has not been produced and has not been adopted. That means that the residential capacity determinations that
have been done for the county and that the county has adopted did not follow the methodology of the comprehensive growth management plan. They couldn't because there was no population technical bulletin adopted. There was nothing produced. So any of those over that seven years could not
follow your methodology any more than I could trying to replicate it. So to that point, it really calls to question how reliable that determination is. If it can't follow your information
and it doesn't acknowledge that it can't follow information that doesn't exist, how can you rely upon that? So even the residential capacity analysis which you all just adopted earlier this month is dated October 2025 and in the same hearing that you adopted
that you adopted the 2025 technical bulletin which means yet again that capacity analysis was produced without a technical bulletin. It was produced on best practices being used by a professional just like the one that I
produced for this applicant to present to this board. Now, the population projections aspect are another concern. Policy 4.1d.2 states that the bulletin be produced and adopted by the county every year using
medium population estimates from the office of economic and demographic research. This is EDR for short, but they don't publish medium numbers. EDR publishes single data points for counties, cities, and unincorporated areas. They don't publish a low, medium,
and high like some agencies and organizations do. They simply publish one number. That may explain why your population technical bulletin hasn't been updated since 2017. It may
not. This may not be the reason it hasn't been updated or produced since then, but the fact that a medium number doesn't come out of EDR may be one of the concerns as to why that document hasn't been produced consistently.
But also, it may explain why the 2025 bulletin contains such extensive language explaining why they had to supplement data from Bieber, who does publish data in low, medium, and high, as well as the census because EDR data
was not available. Again, these are things that are written into your comprehensive plan that don't exist in real life. You can't go to EDR and get that data. It's not there in that way. So, let's correct that. Let's make sure that your plan does exactly what it's
supposed to do for you and that it's something that is consistently interpreted across anyone who wants to go back and doublech checkck or re revalidate those data points. Supply duplication is another concern
within policy 4.1d.5. The comprehensive growth management plan states that capacity shall consist of these four items. Vacant property, current subdivided lots, lots of record developed prior to 82 or platted after 82, and the potential for residential
development in the CRAAS. Now, the concern here is that item number one already captures item 2, three, and four. So if you are not very careful doing this, there is a very high risk of duplication where you are counting a
parcel within the CRA that is vacant and allows residential use twice. You're counting it once when you're counting vacant property that allows residential use and you're counting it again as potential for relative relevant residential development in the CRA. So
that's where this potential for overounting and duplicate counting occurs. That's part of why in the proposed text amendment, we've removed that and we've said it's vacant land. Whether it's in the CRA, whether it's a lot of record prior to 82 or after 82,
it's vacant land that allows for residential use. There is really no reason to call it out separately. It is what it is and it's counted under item one. So to avoid that potential for duplication, let's clean that up a little bit.
Seasonal population is another concerning aspect and an area that I think we can all probably agree, especially anyone here who's ever rented a vacation home maybe for your family and gone on vacation where you rented a house or a condo or a town home.
Seasonal units do not hit the same occupancy standard as a home. So the way that your comprehensive growth management plan is written now, you estimate seasonal population by taking the average persons per household. That means like your home that you live in
all year round. However many people live there, that's that average. But we're saying let's apply that number to seasonal units and that's how we're going to determine the seasonal population. Now when we look at hotel occupancy for
example, they assume double occupancy. That's how their average daily rate is established for a hotel room. It assumes two persons per room. And your 2025 bulletin actually acknowledges this and says the way that they calculate the population of a hotel room is double occupancy because that's
how the rates are established. But then they use this 2.3 persons per household standard for all of your other vacant units that are not hotel rooms. So, any of you who have ever rented a home when you go on vacation with your family know that it's unlikely if you
rented a four-bedroom house, you're only going to put 2.3 people in it. It could certainly accommodate far more than that, especially in a temporary seasonal use capacity. This is another area where we're not really recognizing how much population comes out of your seasonal
units because we're using a flawed number to calculate it. This 2.3 persons per household has nothing to do with seasonal population. The only relevant piece is the units being in uh seasonal use. But the entire
metric of 2.3 persons per household is based on your permanent population and your permanent households. Applying that to a temporary use, a seasonal use that is a vacant unit is not proper. So the capacity determinations that
you've had done, they are now in 10 year and 20-year outlooks. Your growth management plan states that the permanent population projections like we've said from EDR what's used but
both the 2023 capacity analysis that was produced and the 2025 capac capacity analysis produced used 2020 dennial census data but you're supposed to be using EDR for the in between dennial census
years. That's what your growth management plan says. Dennial census years occur every 10 years. We had one in 2020, 2010, 2000, 1990, so on going back. So in 2023, EDR estimates for the current year
should have been used, not 2020. And then in 2025, current estimates from EDR should have been used. They were not. 2020 dennial census data was used. So if I use 2020 dennial census data to do an analysis in
2025, is that projection period that I'm looking out 10 years from the day I did the analysis or 10 years from when the data was produced? It's 10 years from when the data was produced. That's why you're supposed to use EDR in the interim years. You're not
supposed to be going back and using old dennial census data. It's not picking up any of the population growth that you've experienced since the dennial census. It's not recognizing any changes in your vacancy conditions or your household
sizes that have occurred since the dennial census was produced. That is a huge issue with that determination being made. But it also means that the 2025 residential capacity determination that
was adopted at the beginning of this month is not an outlook to 2035 for 10 years. A 10-year outlook using 2020 data is 2030, which means that outlook is not to 2035, it's to 2030. And your 20-year
outlook is not to 2045, it's to 2040. These are big issues and they need to be addressed appropriately because they're important for you all to have the right information to make the informed decisions that you all have to make as elected officials for the growth of this
community. But another concerning point is as we all know the dennial census is done every 10 years and that data is published. It's readily available. If we compare the 2023 residential capacity analysis that was adopted in
December 2023 to the one that was just adopted last year, which both reflect 2020 census data. They don't match. On your screen, you will see the 2023 residential capacity analysis compared to the 2025 residential capacity
analysis. The numbers circled in red do not match. Those circled in green and pink, all do not match. So, those are huge inconsistencies. While they don't seem like a lot of numbers to be different, they call into question the accuracy and reliability of the information you all are relying on to
make your informed decisions. Those are important, nuanced things. And the better that your methodology that is adopted into your comp plan defines where data comes from and how it's used, the less likely these types of inconsistencies are to occur in the
future. So I did produce a residential capacity analysis in an effort to replicate the methodology outlined in your comprehensive growth management plan. As I said, I conducted that in 2023. So my 10-year outlook from 2023, which was
based on 2022 estimates because that was what was available in 2023, looks out to 2031. The metro forecasting residential capacity analysis, which was produced in October of this year, which you all just adopted earlier this month, that 10-year
outlook again doesn't actually go to 2035 because it's based on 2020 data. It actually goes to 2030. So if we compare that to my 10-year outlook, what you'll see is that the demand is not wildly different, my demand number is a little under a
thousand higher in terms of units for the primary urban service district than metro forecasting. But if you look at the supply, this is where we run into that question of it's almost double. How is that possible if there's not
duplication somewhere or wetlands not being counted properly? Because I've done this using GIS. I could send you a layers. It's it's not really much of a question. So, how did theirs get so much higher? And as Morris was explaining, we
know metro forecasting can show us that information. Where is it? How do we now double check that? How do we verify the accuracy of that information? We can't. So we have to rely on its accuracy. But then when we go back and look and compare data
across documents, it doesn't align. So we're stuck with this question of well, can I rely on this? Is this accurate? Is this re like where do I go from here? Which ultimately is how this ended up being a situation where I stepped in and helped this applicant produce a residential capacity analysis.
But the next thing that we did is went in and said, "Okay, let's try to just clean up the language in the existing comprehensive growth management plan, not redo it, just clean it up so that these major issues can be resolved.
The first thing that we did was looked at supply and we said, "Okay, let's be real about what supply really is." So instead of saying we're going to take 100% of the maximum density permitted by future land use, we said if there are parcels inside the urban service district that have zero wetlands on
them, those get 75%. Which Morris just showed you is a good example. That is even above what you've been achieving on average, which as he showed you is about 60%. 75% is already generous and above that. So in your primary urban service
district, you've got about 1,2 acres of parcels which have no wetlands on them at all. At their maximum density, that equates to 6,290 housing units. Within your primary urban service district, you
have about 1,087 acres of parcels which have wetlands on them, but less than 50% of the parcels are wetlands. So in that situation, instead of applying 75%, you would apply 50% of the maximum density across the entirety of the
property. Again, this gets back to how much density is actually being achieved for most of the projects being built. What is the real more realistic approach here based on past experience and historical trends? So the bigger change comes with parcels
that have more than 50% wetlands. So they've got wetlands and more than 50% of these parcels contain wetlands. In that situation, much like the example Morris just showed you, there is really no way to guarantee that you're going to be able to move density around on those properties in the way that the comp plan
allows it to occur, especially with that much wetland in intrusion on the parcels. So in those situations, we've said 75% of the maximum land use density, but only on the upland portion of those lands, not including the wetland.
This would result in the 37 upland acres that you have within the primary urban service district on parcels that have more than 50% wetlands comes out to about 83 housing units. So that means your total is about 10,195
units that are available within the primary urban service district from a vacant land perspective. And you may say that seems crazy. We can't possibly have that much wetlands. Well, we mapped it. So if you look on this map, everything shown in yellow are
the parcels within the urban service districts. The green is the wetlands coming from the water management district and the D wetland layer files. When you look at that in terms of the individual parcels and how much they are inundated with wetlands,
the darker colors here show parcels that have the greatest concentration of wetlands within them. The lighter colors show the least concentration of wetlands. This is on a parcelby parcel basis. There are a lot of parcels within the
urban service district that are inundated by wetlands to some extent or another, but in a measurable way that impacts their ability to hit 100% of their maximum achievable density. So the adjustments that we're proposing
are not unreasonable and they do not really step far from reality. They are very much consistent with what we are seeing in practice today and what is in existence today. In terms of demand, there are several different ways to
calculate these things, but our goal when updating and offering these amendments was to make it as clean and straightforward as pro as possible. So you'll see here we took from the 2020 dennial census your current households your projected households which is just
your projected population that's your permanent population divided by persons per household. Now we've got our projected households. So now we know the difference between those two is your demand for 2030 and the difference between those two um is your demand for 2040. So this is how many households,
permanent resident households will be needed within the unincorporated portion of Martin County through that period. But understanding vacancy is a much bigger area that needs attention. using national vacancy averages or
arbitrary percentages of what should or should not be considered vacant or what should be considered excess vacant or not is not helping you all or your staff plan for the growth that's coming into the county so that they can respond and
prepare for it appropriately. We need to be using real examples of what's going on in your community. So the alternative that we've proposed is a 5-year average of vacancy. So we took the five-year average of vacancy looking at the data
from 2016,17,8 and 19 from the American Community Survey as well as the 2020 dennial census. Averaging that gives us a minimum vacancy because these are the averages you've been achieving for the last 5 years. So this is actually what
your market demands of vacancy. We could call it excess. That's not going to change it being a household or a vacant unit. The reality is these units are vacant and for one reason or another they are not occupied by permanent residents. The seasonal ones are being
used seasonally. Those rented or sold is only 7%. But you've got 4% in other vacant. Those could be storm damaged. Those could be held up in estate or entitlement issues. All types of other things go on with
these units simply because they do not house a permanent resident at that time does not mean we should call them excess vacant and demand that they be used for a permanent resident. We don't get to do that. So, we need to be reasonable and
realistic about what's actually going on. Once that you take that 15.6% 6% minimum vacancy. You multiply it by your households. That's going to grow that number up to give you your housing units. That's it. That is exactly how you do
exactly what is described within the text amendment that we propose. It's not difficult. It's not complicated. It is very straightforward. and it's been laid out for you here in the simplest form possible because that was our goal when we said let's see if we can help them
fix this language without completely changing how you're doing it simply making it more consistent with what we see every single day and making sure that the sourcing is stuff that you can actually go and get that's publicly available and reliable. the dis the demand distribution is exactly as you
originally have it where it's broken across your primary, secondary and outside the urban service district and that results in these calculations. So for 2030 using the text amendment that's just 5 years from now you have 146% capacity but by 2040 that number
drops to 92.5. These are these are concerning things that need to be addressed. So when we talk about expanding urban service boundaries and and how we go about accommodating future growth, it's important to know what's really happening so that we can make informed decisions.
So the staff recommendations related to the residential capacity analysis text amendments. First was that they recommended denial because the proposed amendment to policy 4.1d.2 two conflicts with Florida statute which requires medium EDR population projection
projection estimates be used. As I've already explained, EDR does not publish medium estimates. Um, and our language does not say don't use EDR. It simply removes the word medium and adds the word sourced from Bieber. That's it. It
leaves EDR in there and it says use EDR and after that it says as sourced from Bieber because that's where you can get those medium numbers because your other data does not exist. It's not a thing. Um, and I've cited statute here. It does not say that you
absolutely have to use EDR and that it has to be the medium EDR projections. What it says is that you are responsible that your comprehensive plan should be based upon permanent and seasonal population estimates and projections which shall either
be those published by EDR or generated by the local government based upon a professionally accepted methodology. It does say the plan must be based on at least the minimum amount of land required to accommodate medium projections as published by the office
of EDR. But keep in mind, I haven't said that you can't do that. I've simply sourced them from where they come from, and that's the only change to that text amendment. So, I do not feel that that is consistent in terms of the argument that it violates statute to make that
text amendment. Staff also recommended denial stating that the amendments to se to these sections are not clear and that until a methodology is applied and words describing calculations become calculations it is unclear the result. Well, I've just shown you the
calculations but also I understand that in your existing comprehensive growth management plan words are used to describe calculations. So when we proposed our text amendment, we did the same to try to remain as consistent as possible with your own
formatting. As you'll see here, the top section is directly from your existing comprehensive growth management plan. These are words describing calculations. The proposed text amendment uses words to describe calculations. Very similar
formatting, very similar symbology, and very similar language. We are not trying to make this more difficult. We are actually trying to make it more straightforward and simple. That's of course our goal. And then lastly, staff recommended
denial of the proposed text amendment because the population technical bulletin and capacity methodology would likely result in multiple internal inconsistencies within the text of the comprehensive growth management plan. I want to highlight the word multiple
because not a single example was provided. We did make a lot of text amendments and I can tell you I have read your comprehensive growth management plan far more times than I think I've probably read very many other people's comprehensive growth management plans and I've run it through and strike
through underline. I've had other people read through it. I've I mean we have really tried to be very very meticulous in what we've done here to prevent any internal inconsistencies. And this is the only statement that we received back as a staff recommendation
for denial. Not one inconsistency was identified, but the determination was made that multiple must exist. I would welcome one example. So with that said, I am going to turn things back over to Tyson who is going
to talk us through a few other uh topics. That was >> Thank you, Laura. >> So, I think Laura and Morris did a great job in giving an overview and an explanation of both our proposals as well as responses to staff comments. So, I'll just briefly touch on a few final
items. Um, we've been involved in this process with the county with your county staff for a long time. Uh, back in 20 March of 2024, we submitted a letter expressing some concerns about the res residential capacity analysis. We did it again in October of 24 before your ears
ear amendments were transmitted to the state and then again in March of this year when those ear amendments were approved. And in addition to the flaws in the formula methodology that Laura pointed out, we also believe that there's there's inconsistencies with the
requirement of Florida statutes uh specifically section 163- I'm sorry 3177. Uh by way of example, plan amendments are are to be based on the best data available and your residential capacity analysis as you've heard today is not um
the formulas and data used are supposed to be used by professionally accepted method methodologies and not limited to points a particular set of arbitrary data points. Again by way of example in your capacity analysis you use maximum
density which is discouraged by your comp plan and in some cases prohibited by your comp plan but that's the default that we use in our residential capacity analysis formula. Similarly the default in your comp plan is that you do not get density for wetland but the default in
the analysis is you get 50% of your density from your wetlands. And again, the character of the land, what's actually on there is ignored in all of this. In addition, you're to coordinate with other governmental agencies as well as long-term transportation plans and
similar plans and reports. Capital investment, economic development, and diversification are also elements that must be considered. And finally, factors of projected population, the location of the population, and public facilities are to be considered.
The residential capacity anal analysis methodology does not consider this. You've heard today all of the flaws that we think are in your current residential capacity analysis and that what we present today is a better way to get a realistic determination of future
housing demands and future housing needs, which is the point of this analysis. But that being said, at the end of the day, what this is all about is whether or not there's a need in the county to expand capacity and where.
And as Morris pointed out, even in your own 2025 residential capacity analysis, the findings were you have to expand capacity. Your comprehensive plan provides that when the undeveloped acreage within either the primary urban
service district or the secondary urban service district provides no more than 10 years of projected population growth. The county is required to expand capacity. That's what your own adopted analysis found. So the time to to commence planning for
capacity expansion is gone. It is now the time to expand capacity. And separate apart from that, what we come down to is section 4.7A 7 of your comp plan sets forth the criteria of
when the primary urban service district is to be altered. It sets forth eight criteria that this board needs to find in order to alter that urban service boundary. Your staff has agreed with our application that we meet five of those. There's three that that they they they
find that we do not comply with but that we disagree and we think that we do. One is the internal inconsistencies with the comp plan and that another one is incompatible with your surrounding uses. I think Morris did a great job in providing an overview of how we meet
both of those. And then the last one is this subp part five that provides that the land that you look at and the determination is whether there's reasonable capacity on suitable lands within the primary urban service district. So that determination
is not based on the raw numbers of your capacity an analysis. Instead you have to look deeper into what those lands are and where they're located. So the first issue is are there suitable lands within the primary urban service district? And
again, as Morris pointed out, we don't think there's enough suitable lands. One, we don't think there's enough capacity to be begin with, and certainly there's not enough suitable lands to meet the population demands and the housing needs of the future. And the second element is, is there reasonable
capacity? And your comp plan defines what reasonable capacity means. Are there environmental concerns? Are there wetlands? Are there uplands that we want to preserve? Are there other unique characteristics being next to lakes or rivers or creeks that we want
to make sure that things are not overdeveloped? Are there are those lands an efficient use and expansion of public facilities and services? Again, as Morris pointed out, a lot of these infill parcels, they're on tiny rideways, 30 feet. They
don't have access to utilities. You can't access them without disturbing other residential developments. So, those you take off the list of being reasonable. And then finally, you looked at you look at projected population and where that population is likely to end up. And again, I challenge you with this
parcel today, and I believe staff has acknowledged this, that we check all of those three boxes. That there are no environmental concerns with this piece of property. That we have the the residential ser the ser the urban services already right at our parcel to accommodate an expansion
of the urban service district. And the population growth and the job growth is right here in this area. And the housing need is going to be right here in this area. And based on all of those criteria, I strongly believe and I've heard you've heard the testimony to today that we meet eight of those all
eight of those criteria. You have to expand capacity pursuant to your own comp plan. And this is the appropriate parcel for you to do so. And with that, we greatly appreciate all of your time today. The project team is here um to answer any questions that you may have and we greatly appreciate your
consideration. >> Questions for the applicant? questions. >> Commissioner Heatherington. >> Yes. Thank you for your presentation. That was very thorough and detailed. And I'll just say for my part, um I our our
professional staff I think is probably one of the top in the state and uh I will concur with their analysis for this and I'll move staff's recommendation for denial. >> Commissioner Vargas, >> I would like to second that motion.
Commissioner Heatherington. Um, I've had extensive talks. Uh, we're not put in the seat to continuously push out the urban service founder. You work for a developer. I get it. I was in real estate in Miami Dade County. Look what happened. The explosion. There comes a
point when there isn't any more land. There isn't any more land. It's like trying to cram people on a ship or an island. This is sprawl. This is sprawl. And people are fed up. That's why I was elected. I can't speak for the others. I
will follow what our staff has recommended and we've had detailed thoughts, talks, and also we've laid out and I said, "What about this? What about this?" And they came back with strong
analysis and recommendations. Commissioner Campy, >> I'm going to go into a little more detail than just bam, right in. Um, first off, I appreciate the presentation. I feel like I should get like continuing
education credits for that presentation, but very well done. Um, and to the applicant, I would tell you that you obviously I I'm not familiar with the young lady, but the two the
planner, what's your name again? Crady. Morris Krady and Tyson Waters. Uh, you picked to the applicant. You picked the right people locally to represent you. They did a remarkable job and they did what they were supposed to do. They were paid to make a presentation based on
bringing this home. Um, I have several points to make based on a long presentation. Can you bring up the map from 2010, please? >> I think it's in the applicant's presentation, but it was the it was the
example from 2010. >> Yeah, >> the applicant's presentation is a long slide deck, so we're going to use our map because we can get to it more quickly. >> Do you have it exactly? I would like the ver is this the 2010 version? >> Yes. Yes. This is the 2010. This is what
was adopted in 2010. >> Can you fill the whole screen with it, please? >> Yeah. This is not going to work to my point. I'm going to need to see theirs because the second slide of theirs um what it was and what it is. You don't have that. They do. I'm sorry. It'll
take a minute. Just go if was Did you just pass it? this one and then what's the next one after this? Okay. Uh, you can leave this one. This was done in 2010. As Mr. Kdy had mentioned, I happen to have been here in
2010. Commissioner Herd and I are the only two that are here from 2010 and I'm pretty sure she did not vote for this. >> Absolutely. >> But I did and I have Ask my family members. I have a crazy good memory.
The Neil brothers from Fort Pierce, farmers from Fort Pierce owned this property with and Nancy and they came down and they had a great idea of utilizing this property that they owned that was farm land to 2010,
remember in the height of the recession to sort of work a new angle and and create opportunity, not housing at the time, industrial. And they had a great idea that it had a little piece that touched right onto the C44 canal and it
was going to be marine industrial. I can almost remember the presentation. Very well done. Uh and it passed. I would guess was Commissioner Fielding here then or Falier. >> Either way, it passed. At least got
three votes. I was one of them back then and I was pretty new. I came in in late 2008. So it was the first year and a half or so I thought okay here's something we we need industrial it's not housing we're going along we agreed basically with staff's recommendation to
do what was asked couple years passed and then through I guess someone realized that wait a second as Mr. He said there was a perpetual easement or whatever the legal terminology was with the Army Corps of Engineers that they could not use that
they could not access the water. Uh-oh, they're back. Hey, we didn't realize we're not going to be able to do this original vision that we had and we're going to need to pivot to a new vision. I supported that because I get it. You know, our staff didn't notice. They didn't notice. We
can't do it. It changed their whole dynamic. Will you be kind enough to allow us to alter the plan? Yes, we will. Okay. Then they moved it around a little bit. I don't see a version of it there. Couple years pass.
I had been gone for a while but came back. Couple years pass and then I get a call. Hey, really difficult to get this going. I heard a lot from the people that lived across the street. Mr. Crady is accurate when he said about 96th Street and having the entrance of, you
know, their entrance across the street from St. Lucy Falls. Can you help us? Can we maneuver it around? I actually, and I give Nancy Neil a lot of credit. She has worked tirelessly for whoever she was representing, and I know it's changed hands a couple of times, she
would call me. Actually, she's calling me again now this week. Can we meet? Can I meet you? Can I fly in? Can I do? and I was always very accommodating to help her because she is literally trying I call her a onewoman economic development engine for Martin County. So, whatever I
could do and she's lovely. So, whatever I could do to assist her, I would. I've done Zoom calls with potential um applicants or, you know, businesses that wanted to come to this property. two or three in a row in a whole afternoon where we would do Zoom call after Zoom
call trying to bring economic development to Martin County, but it was a struggle. We talked about data centers. We talked about cold storage. We talked about a lot of different breweries. I met with lots of people, not just Zoom. I met with people in
person trying to do economic development with her. Um, then they realized, well, it's not going to work. And that's where this comes. Don't really want to have those industrial tractor trailers coming out on 96th Street passing Crystal Lake
Elementary School. It's a lot. So I agree when Mr. Krady made that very impassioned presentation about we don't we will guarantee you that we won't have trucks and we switched it over and wasn't that great of us. Yeah, of course. We all thought at the time it
would make much more sense to not only have the gateway be on Caner Highway versus 96 Street, which if you haven't driven it ever, it's a very narrow kind of back road. Um, so we they came again and asked, "Hey,
would you move it? Can we move the uh density and the and the uh industrial to Caner Highway?" And guess what I said? Yes, because it made sense. And then
we hear, well, I should also say that during the South Florida Gateway, which I'm very appreciative, and every time they came, hey, we got an applicant or we got someone that wants to come here. They want to store stuff outside. Guess what I said? Yeah, we the the
commission, as you see it now, was here. How high would the fence be? What how would they shield it? but they have a tank outside that would be taller than the roof. We went through all of the scenarios and we agreed and said yes. So now we're here to then we even bought
property for us to be on because we were pleased. And I'm pretty sure Wateride Way is not constructed by the applicant. It's constructed by us. And so then so now we have a freestanding urban service boundary.
Then rural lifestyle shows up and I believe it or not I was a no on rural lifestyle. Commissioner and I. That being said, my concern back then with rural lifestyle is how do you stop it? How do you really
fence it in so that you can't just keep it going? Well, there was originally it was going to be just the primary. Then it was going to be the primary and the secondary. Then it was going to be the primary, the secondary, and the freestanding. And then it got narrowed around and they came up with a a
version. And then someone came and said, "Hey, we got another opportunity here. We think it's going to be great. Can we stretch out the rural lifestyle a little bit?" Exactly what they needed it to be. And I said yes. Because I wanted that project. I would have voted for the projects that utilize the rural
lifestyle amendment, even if they were separate projects. And that's what I always said. the golf courses. I have I make no uh apologies for Atlantic Fields, Apogee, the ranch. Golf is a
great use of and protector of rural space for us. But here we are today and I had an opportunity to meet with the applicant's team and they make a very compelling story and they're great people. So, it's not a matter of like I
don't like them, but as Commissioner Heatherington said, these are my people. Those are your people. Now, I'm not discounting anything that I heard from Morris Krady, from Tyson Waters, and I apologize. C Smith, your last name is
Smith. um makes a compelling story, but I these are my people and we've had these conversations and I have heard concerns that like we're heading down a treacherous path. Now I don't know all
about the um residential capacities and all that and I have my own issues on residential capacity studies in general not specifically about this that you know if someone said hey we need you know more capacity in Hob Sound but I own property in Jensen I don't care if
you need more property in Hob Sound I own property in Jensen so I I have an issue on when and because applicants are going to come forward and say well you know this is where I am so let's say everything that Miss said was accurate. I'm not I'm not agreeing to that, but let's just say hypothetically she's
right. Now, David Farmer is not here to have a he said, she said. So, my first concern would be I would like him as our consultant to watch what Miss Smith said and then I'd love to hear his opinion if
he was here today. Maybe you sounded very compelling. Great. But he was compelling here two weeks ago. our staff had an opportunity. So, I would also like if there's any kind of right off the top, our staff could could challenge some of the things
that you said. I do remember that someone said, "Well, you know, you're you're not using the number that your comprehensive plan amendment comprehensive plan says you should use. You're using Bieber and you should use the other one." Well, the other one is from Bieber and vice versa. All of that.
But here's my point. If all of that shook out and and was accurate and that extra capacity and expanded capacity is necessary, what determines where exactly where? Because here's my point
about that long history I gave. You guys are using as your rationale for why it should be happening right here. Because you're next to a freestanding urban service boundary that we gave you because a couple of years ago it wasn't that. And then you said, 'Well, we're going to be over here next to this and
next to that one that we gave you. So, you're using the things that you had come to in the past and said, "Hey, can you help us out and can you do this for us?" And now, couple years, six, seven, eight years later, you're like, "Well, since you did that, we need to have
this." which is exactly what the people that constantly beat us up, some of us that are pro business or or looking to be reasonable, they would say, "If you do that, this is what's going to happen." And today, it seems like that's
what's trying to happen. So even if your capacity numbers are accurate and 8 n 10 15 35 40 years from now we need more I don't understand why you think you should get it right here because the reasons you are saying it's reasonable
is we changed it to what you wanted and now you want something else. I can't support that. Thank you >> Mr. CS. So this is a comprehensive plan amendment and I would like to turn our attention
to page 252 and it's the second page of the agenda item summary and then about halfway down the page legal sufficiency review. This is a legislative matter.
Legislative decisions are those in which the local government formulates policy rather than applying specific rules to a particular situation. A local government's approval or denial
of an issue in its legislative capacity is typically subject to a fairly debatable standard of review. Fairly debatable means that the government's action must be upheld if
reasonable minds could differ as to the propriety of the decision reached. Decisions subject to a fairly debatable standard of review need only be rationally
related to a legitimate public purpose such as the health, safety, and welfare of the public to be valid. Given this broad discretion, only decisions that are arbitrary and
capriccious or illegal are subject to serious legal challenge. And I think that there's nothing more fundamental to the comprehensive plan or
to the Martin County difference than the urban services boundary. And based on staff analysis, I don't think that the evidence requires that we move this boundary at this time. Therefore, I support Commissioner
Heatherington's motion to deny. Miss Nabi, uh, I like to read more than anyone you've ever met in your life. And yet, these two agenda items that you've prepared even challenged my feverish
advocacy for the written word. You you put on your FBI analyst hat and what a what a prodigious report you've prepared. Excellent. Excellent work. We have a motion and a second. All those in favor? I I
>> opposed. That motion passes unanimously. This does away with the need to to continue with public hearing number two. Correct. >> Public comment. >> Is there any public comment? >> Please, please come forward. Sorry.
>> Yeah. >> I thought you were going to beat the drum a little bit. >> I was going to beat the drum a little bit. Why? >> For the record, my name is not Bill Summers. >> Uh, you got it. There you go. Hey, uh,
so I'm watching this at home and I see the, uh, staff recommend recommendation for denial and I go, what what is going on around here? This is very, very curious. It's like, what planet am I on?
In fact, maybe our very astute Steuart News reporter could do the research and find out how many years ago it was something like this happened. So, it's it's refreshing,
but it's very curious. Very curious. And all I can say is I guess thank God for election cycles. >> Thank you. Yeah. >> So, we do not need to since we uh I've denied this, we don't go on to public hearing number two, do we?
>> Microphone is off. So, I think we do not have public hearing number two unless the applicant has a different idea. No, I I I think that was part of my comment is just understanding a stipulation that if the text amendment does not go through, the final the future manus amendment would de facto be denied as
well. >> Okay, >> moved. >> Thank you. Thank you for your >> Thank you. And do we need a motion for that or no? >> Do we need to take a break? >> Let's do Let's take a 10-minute break. Stretch our legs. Yeah.
We are back at commissioners Donna Gordon has just reminded me that we haven't approved the consent agenda yet. >> So struggling through huh maybe we got to reconsider. >> First of all, we have to we have to take care of a poll. You want to take care of the poll right now? I I pulled that
simply because I want to put some light on this uh consent agenda because I think it's a fine one and that is purchasing more lots in Palmar. Yeah. So part of the ELOC program and
their approvals and the board's approval of those items was the individually owned Palmore properties and so we need a resolution to accept them because we don't have to come every single time as long as you know the legal department approves everything on there. And as far
as the tax deed sale goes um we have to have a resolution to accept those but we're not we haven't even tried the process yet. So, we have a lot of things we have to meet because we can't pay doc stamps and things like that. So, the um clerk's office is working on that for us
to get it together. >> Okay. Just wanted to highlight that. >> I'd make a motion to accept. >> I'll second. Uh, I I thought I'd make a comment or two about that giant track of land out there called Palmar and its
very storied history of how it all came to be. And from what I understand, there were these uh sort of charlatan salesmen down in Florida who sold just
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people up north a a a bill of goods that buy your piece of land in paradise for $100 or $500, you know, sight unseen. People would just mail in the checks.
And this giant track of land is owned by hundreds if not thousands of individuals and their families and their descendants. And it's it never was really buildable land. Uh it's swamp
basically wetland almost all wetland or the bulk of it unbuildable. Um but it's a fascinating somebody should write a book about it. It's a it's an amazing history. And uh it's been, you know, a ordeal for
the county to unravel this and to try to buy up all these little pieces of land over the years. So, good job to all of you trying to uh find who owns these parcels and who's willing to sell them. And what a job that must be.
>> But it's worth it. >> There's a motion and a second. All those in favor? I >> opposed. Now, let's have a motion to approve the remainder of the consent agenda. >> Move approval. >> A second. There's a motion and a second.
All those in favor? I opposed. That motion passes unanimously. Now we can move on to uh department one which is office of management and budget items which require board approval. >> Good afternoon.
>> You're having a cameo. >> Yeah, we are. Good afternoon, commissioners. Can you hear me? Okay. Uh Tracy Hurt, uh budget and fiscal operations coordinator in the office of management and budget in for Stephanie Merley. Uh there are four
items. You're not going to mess with me, Commissioner Campy. >> Four items um which require board approval. First one is permission to apply for the 2526 agricultural regional projects program. Um environmental resource division is requesting it. It's
a grant award of a,750,000 with no grant match required. Um, only staff time to administer the grant. >> Before we go, I just want to say this is a first of its kind. Uh, it's a partnership that's that's unprecedented and I'm sure it will be successful and
it will pave the way for more projects. This is really a cool project. Great. Uh the second item is um permission to accept from the Florida Department of Transportation for funds for rural areas to provide operating
assistance for public transportation. This will provide transportation route that serves the village of Indiantown. The grant award is for $41,537 and there will be a grant matched by the county which is already budgeted in the transit budget.
And then item number three is a budget resolution to increase the Florida opioid settlement funds. Um Martin County has been issued $24,4321 in additional funds.
And then the final item four is a request by the Martin County Sheriff's Office to use $11,0221. Um this money comes from contraband forfeertures for the last two years amounting in about 44,000 and 25% of it
which is the 11,000 is used for drug prevention, drug treatment, etc. And that's it. >> Questions, comments? Commissioner Campy >> motion to accept. >> Second. >> Prior to that though, I would like to just compliment Miss Hurt that um we're
having a full circle moment. She is a shining example of uh first off someone that's been able to reinvent their career. She was a teacher for my kids at Hidden Oaks Middle School. She was their she was their math teacher and they are as smart as they are today in large part
because of Miss Hurt. They absolutely loved her and so do we. So we're very happy to have you with the county. >> Yeah, we are. Thank you. Thank you. >> Is there's a motion and a second. All those in favor? >> I >> opposed. That motion passes unanimously. Thanks.
>> Thank you. >> Come back again. >> Uh, department three is approval and acceptance of a funding agreement between Martin County and the board of trustees of the internal improvement trust fund for the contribution of funds
toward a conservation easement on a portion of Barbie Ranch. >> I don't think Carla realizes back to back. or pop popping corks. >> And there's Mike Houston outside. He's wearing a suit. Maybe he wants to come in.
>> Michael Houston, come in from the lobby. Take seven seconds for him to hear that. >> Is it him or is it Carla? >> It's both. I >> see Michael out there. >> Is this you? >> Says her name. Does Mike Houston's wearing a suit? Does any want everybody
to see him? >> All right. Sorry about that. >> Okay. Um, this is a request for the approval and acceptance of a funding agreement as recommended by the board of county commissioners on August the 26th of 2025.
Um we're um which was approved by the environmental lands oversight committee and also the board that we would um use the sales tax funds in the amount of $5 million for a conservation easement on
approximately 669 acres of land located within the Barbie Ranch which is in Martin County. Um the state is going to be funding the other part of it which the total is I think it was like 17 million 17 yes
17,169,200 and uh the county prepared a funding agreement with them and if the board approves it then we're going to um send it up to the state for them to execute the final document and then we'll they once once they do the closing. We'll do
all that at the same time. So, we're asking that the board approve and accept the funding agreement between Martin County and the board of trustees of the internal improvement trust fund using funds from the sales tax referendum to assist by
contributing funds for the acquisition of the conservation easement at Barbie Ranch and authorize the chair to execute any and all documents necessary to complete the transaction. >> Running Another fine example of the board protecting
taxpayer funds. For every dollar we invest, we've gotten more than a $3 investment. >> Which is >> I have a couple of questions for Michael Houston. >> Houston, >> we're waiting for you. >> Sorry, >> we saw you out there. They're just chit
cchatting in the lobby. We have questions for you. Michael Houston, senior project manager, Martin County. >> What do you think of the of the purchase? >> What do I think of the per of Barbie Ranch? >> Yes. >> I think it's an amazing opportunity. I
don't think we get many opportunities to set aside large tracks of land anymore. And the fact that we can do it at a conservation with a conservation easement and only spend five million of our taxpayer dollars to lock up a property of that size is quite the
opportunity uh that doesn't come around very often. >> It's a beautiful property, too. >> Yeah. >> I would make a motion to accept staff's recommendation. >> Second. >> Any further questions, comments? There's a motion in and a second. All those in
favor? I opposed. That motion passes unanimously. Great job. Thank you. >> We didn't want you to miss out. >> Then we have Do we just have one more item? Department five is a an item to
approve a contract with Miss Miss Elise Elder for the position of county attorney. >> Yes. Uh commissioners. uh um having uh passed uh uh the u nomination to uh uh
accept Miss Elder as your county attorney. Uh myself uh negotiated contract did have assistance with the chair who uh worked with us on the uh benefits package. Um, Miss Elder is uh
seeking a uh salary increase, a 13% increase over her current salary, which is approximately 225,000. Uh, the me bring up the item. Sorry. Um, >> the uh current uh so the uh proposed
salary is $267,52. No, it's >> two 255 >> 255600. I'm sorry. >> That's the wrong Yeah, >> that's the wrong contract. >> 255600 is the attached contract. The average salary, I'm sorry, what for county attorneys in the state of Florida
is is $260,52. Um the benefits package is the same package that uh Miss Woods had occur had. Um I've had the opportunity to speak with you all individually. This is the opportunity for you all to discuss
amongst yourselves. Um the county attorney's position is again one of two positions that you hire. It would be myself and uh our county attorney. I certainly look forward to working with Miss Elder as the rest of our staff do uh and uh hope that we can amically
resolve a contract here uh this afternoon. Thank you, >> Mr. Campy. >> Thank you very much, Miss Elder. A couple of questions for you. Uh, how long have you been with the county? >> Seven about seven and a half years. >> Thank you. Uh, how many people will be
under your immediate control? >> Right now there are five, but there might be six if we hire a deputy. >> Five attorneys and >> four attorneys and a legal administrator. >> Okay. Would you I classify it almost as
a small law firm that happens to be on the fourth floor of this building. Would you agree? >> I would definitely agree. And your um area of expertise, your personal area of expertise is >> so I had a extensive um expertise in
litigation which exposes you to a lot of areas of law since I've been at the which included um employment law. I was hired as an employment lawyer. But since then I um do land use. I work with every department in the county and I do I represent the fire department and human
resources. I'm board certified in city, county, and local government law. One of 302 attorneys out of 98,000 in the state of Florida right now. >> Say that again. >> I'm board certified in city, county, and local government law. I'm one of about
302 attorneys in the entire state out of about 98,000 um attorneys. >> Thank you. I felt that that beared repeating. Uh I think that not obviously I was in favor of your promotion. I think not only have you proven yourself
to be very valuable to myself as a commissioner, the board, our staff. I've watched you work during your interview process. Many, many people had reached out to me both within your profession, others that you've dealt with um strongly
recommending you for the position and then afterwards congratulating us for selecting you. Uh, I think not only personally do I think you're an excellent uh we, as Mr. Donaldson said, we only hire two. Um, I'm very happy to
make the motion to approve your contract, but also I think it sends an appropriate message to the rest of our staff understanding that if we have bench strength that when the opportunity presents itself to promote from within,
uh, I think that sends an excellent message to our leaders that there is future opportunity for improvement and advancement here within in the organization. So, uh, I wish you nothing but success.
>> Commissioner Caps, >> I appreciate the good work you do and glad you're the county attorney. I think the contract is reasonable and I would be glad to second. >> Mr. Donaldson, how long was uh Sarah
Woods here? >> Um, all totaled. Um, well, she's she worked for the county for uh well over 10 or 15 years. So, um, >> and how long was she the county attorney? Do you remember that?
>> I you know, right off the top of my head, I can't think of it. I think she was a county attorney for about 10 years. >> I do. >> Yeah. Do you >> I know how long she was here. She became the county attorney in 2017. So, eight years. >> Eight years. And her salary at the end
of her tenure >> um it was approximately the salary that is uh with Miss Elder 255,600 is what her salary would be. >> And Mr. Donaldson, how long have you worked in Martin County? >> Uh 29 years.
>> And before you became the county administrator, you were a department head. I was the deputy county administrator for five years prior to the that and almost 20 years the public works or county engineer
>> supervising how many employees? >> Well over 100 >> and as a county administrator and the deputy county administrator for the last 10 years supervising how many people? Uh well currently over,00 >> and your salary is
>> uh 267. >> Yeah. you know, I I have to I have to compare those two figures and I I you know, obviously uh we can't award positions based solely
upon u seniority in the county, but I feel that there has to be a more of a rational nexus between the two salaries. I think that 255 is too high. Commissioner Vargas.
>> Um, yeah. One question, uh, that was asked by Chairwoman Herd, uh, what was the salary from Miss Woods? I believe it's 241,000. That was the number I was given and I'm going to stick with that one. Um, while I appreciate that we're looking out for
Miss Elder and want to her to make a good living on what is fair, it's not responsible government to justify paying the maximum possible. It is not. We're giving away the farm. This is what this is. Um this is not smart negotiations.
Um the the parties that are talking about compensation are, you know, just justifying the maximum. And Martin County must be responsible for only as much money as is justifiable. Um in business, you have candidates. you
go to candidate one and if they're not in agreement with the compensation the duties you go to candidate two and if they're not in agreement you go to candidate three and so forth um I cannot justify this maximum um and I feel that
you're continuously trying to do this there seems to be no ceiling here I mean there has to be a ceiling just as in private business too what else is someone else willing to do this job for to have the opportunity to work in Martin County that They would they would
I can bet you settle for less. Um Stuart Martin County law firms, an attorney working in a law firm could be pulling 60,000 maybe 150. Above that they'd have to be a partner. That means they'd have to pay into the firm. Um this is not the
case here. Um it's a very very rich contract. I've read through it. Um and again, you're very well experienced. However, we cannot continue to accelerate salaries. It will be at 300,000. Uh you have four attorneys and
you have uh a legal aid. Um we don't have that m many lawsuits here in Martin County. We don't. We don't. You got to start doubling up here. Um it's not smart negotiations. And I think that
if you listen to the reasoning and if you listen to what is out there in the field, um I I never got this until yesterday actually this number and I was a gasast. I said, "What?" And I know there was request for more.
We're not a bottomless pit here. We are not a bottomless pit whatsoever. We have to be responsible to our taxpayers. If you find a private firm that wants to pay you that money, well then, you know, go for it. But I think that possibly me we may need to renegotiate the salary
again. This is way way up there because there's also the FRS, there's also the car, there's also the uh sick days to or uh paytime off as you would say. Um it seems like we're locked in. If we have a cause that for some reason we don't have
a good relationship anymore, it seems like we're locked in to this contract. And I would urge my fellow commissioners to think more like business people and responsibility to the taxpayers. It's way too high. Way too high.
>> Commissioner Campy, all I can say is thank God there's five of us up here. I think most of what I just heard was inappropriate. Um the the the use of the word maximum and that we're scraping around the maximum. It says right here in the
recommendation, the 2025 annual salary survey for local government attorneys in the state of Florida on average was 267,000. The negotiation here is 255. That's 12,000 less than the average. So it's not like we're maxing her out. Uh it's
only for to Commissioner Herd's point that she's only supervising four people, four attorneys and a and a clerk. She also oversees and gives legal advice to every single department in the county. The 1100 employees that work on
behalf of the county are supervised and given legal advice from one of the members that our county attorney has supervised. Mrs. Woods was making this number when she left because that's the market rate number. I don't think it's overly paid.
I have dozens of friends who are Martin County attorneys. None of them make $60,000 a year. Some of them are not partners that pay in. They make, you know, $400 or $500 an hour. Uh I think, you know, everyone's entitled to their
opinion, but to paint Miss Elder as some trying to like trick us into a deal, I think this is a very fair number. your your suggestion that the rest of us should start to act like business people. I've worked for multi-billion dollar corporations for many many years.
We can brag on resumes as you like to do all the time. And then in terms of how we're spending taxpayer money, you continually bring up the fact that the rest of us seem to just waste taxpayer money. I've been very cautious about bringing up your travel expenses, your
expenses of redesigning your office. So, I would be very careful about throwing stones at the rest of us like we don't know what we're doing. We've, some of us have been elected several times by the taxpayers and our constituents because they feel very strongly that we are
doing a good job. You're a firstterm commissioner speaking and and I think insulting our staff, insulting applicants, insulting members of the public. Um, I think you're entitled to that opinion and I've sat quietly and
listened to it, but if you want to do that and I don't think it's appropriate that Miss Elder, who we are happy and and to say to her, if you don't like your deal, you should go somewhere else is inappropriate. Luckily, it's not a
one-on-one job interview. There's five of us. We all heard the numbers. I've been here. I was part of uh eliminating a person that was a county attorney in 2017. I was the one that helped promote Miss Woods to her position and work when she
decided to retire to bring her back. That is one of the most important positions in the county. And in terms of us not having a lot of lawsuits in the county, that's because a lot of the commissioners that are now sitting up here eliminated a lot of those lawsuits. We were very prone to litigation, people
suing the county all the time. We don't even know what today will bring us. I've heard rumors that one of the applicants of today, if things didn't go their way, were threatening to sue us. We need very strong representation. They need to feel that they are supported by their commissioners, at least a majority of
them. I get that there might be some personality u conflicts, but I think that Miss Elder, and I am I'm sorry that you even have to sit through this, but that's what public uh office means for professionals that worked within it. Um
255,000 is a reasonable salary. I don't know what you're comparing it to. We're very fortunate to have her resume of skills. the she has the complete support of all of the people in her office as well as people that work within the county and as what I've told you she has
the complete support of our community. Now are there going to be some outliers that don't like her? Possibly. But we're very fortunate to have Miss Elder at 255 and my motion stands. Commissioner Heatherington >> agree with many of those comments and we
saw an oh Luke Lambert was in the auto gallery today and he was an excellent employee and we lose our employees to the private sector and in the private sector the biggest biggest competition is for their workforce. So I think it's
fair. I think that u Miss Elder you've done a great job and I will support it. >> Commissioner Vargas. >> Yeah. Um, I appreciate not being scolded anymore. I I really appreciate it. Uh, because I respect you and you will respect me also. Um, so in the future,
let's temper ourselves. I have a right to my opinion. If we're comparing with other counties that have millions of people in it, it is a different story, isn't it? And you know, by making espersions about expenditures,
this is what I heard during my campaign. People are not happy out there. And to say, well, it's okay to spend this amount of money. It's not your it's not your checkbook. You've been an employee. You talk about your companies. That's fine. As you said, this is not your real
job. You have another job that you hold higher than this. So, I stick by my statements. They are correct. And I voted for her. But I'm talking about the dollars. And unless you've been a business owner that has stayed up at night and doesn't know how to pay your
employees and how to make your business work, then you don't really have the expertise. >> There's a motion and a second. All those in favor? >> I opposed. >> Opposed. >> Opposed. That motion passes 32 with commissioners Vargas and Herd
descenting. That brings us Congratulations. That brings us to the end of our meeting. Commissioner comments. Commissioner Vargas. >> Yeah, I was going to say also some people say they have 20 years, excuse me, 16 years of experience when in reality they have one year of experience
repeated 20 or 16 times. And if the shoe fits, wear it. >> Let me before I go on to you public comment, would anyone from the public like to address us? Mr. Waters. >> Tyson Waters. Um, again, I'm here on behalf of my client. I think there was a
little bit of confusion when we left the meeting. My interpretation of part two, the future land use amendment, was that it was stipulated that we were we were denied, but I think there was some question as to whether or not we were officially denied or it's just kind of floating out there. So, I just want to make sure that on the record it's
confirmed that we were denied essentially for both the text amendment as well as the future land use amendment. >> Never took up the second. >> Yeah, we never took up the hearing. It was my understanding that you didn't qualify for the future land use based on the text amendment failure. But I think that would just be part of the denial is
that because we we failed to meet the certain all of those elements and thresholds that for for that those reasons. >> But we didn't have a hearing. So I don't know that we can issue a development a denial without a hearing. >> Can we we're still in the meeting. So that's why I came back to see we're still in the meeting. So can we call
that item up here and have I think you have staff here to give the presentation even as short as it may be and just so we can have that vote. >> Sure. >> Okay. Thank you. We will take up uh public hearing number two,
which is a future land use map amendment for the wide parcel. >> Good afternoon, members of the board. My name is Clyde Dulan, comprehensive planning administrator. I'll do an abbreviated uh I'm sure I can't do it as
well as Miss Na'vi. Uh but uh this is CPA 2112, future land use map amendment. uh was requested by Ludan Associates on behalf of Caner 96 Street Investments and South Florida Gateway Industrial LLC. Uh
>> Mr. She's coming in if you want her to do it. >> I'll go ahead and give you some uh highlight the background that we covered in the uh the text amendment. Uh previously there was um agricultural and industrial on the subject site and the
applicant proposed low density in their first application in 2021. Then there were changes in the surrounding industrial and further changes in the proposed text um proposed future land use map amendment.
And as you can see this is an amendment request from agricultural to lowdensity residential on 396 acres. The difference in the number of units possible is 19 versus 150. And that's assuming that the text amendment that you considered at an
earlier public hearing would have been approved. Go ahead. >> So this is an aerial location map of the subject property. Um outlined in red is the wide property that is the subject of the future land use map amendment.
Just giving context for where the property is located. This is the existing future land use map of the subject property. The out uh property outlined in red currently has an agricultural future land use designation and the proposed future land use map in
this application has that same red outline property with low density residential. Going over the future land use designations in the immediate area. We can see again that the red outline property has an agricultural designation. To the north there is the
commercial waterfront future land use designation. Then uh those uh five lots that are south of southwest 96th street have an agricultural designation. The mobile home future land use and the estate density 2 units per acre on the
north side of uh southwest 96th street. Then to the east there's the residential estate density two units per acre, the agro agricultural ranchet future land use which has a residential density of one unit per 5 acres and the 250 acres
of industrial in that freestanding urban service district. To the south is about 200 acres with an agricultural future land use. And then to the west is the rural lifestyle future land use that is part of the three lakes property also
known as Apogee and the St. Lucy Canal. And part of staff's recommendation for denial with this future land use map amendment um comes into the compatibility concerns that are outlined in the staff report uh with the
surrounding land uses in the area. So in section 2.1 of the staff report um there are four criteria that are found in chapter one of the comprehensive plan and these four criteria must be analyzed whenever there is a future land use map
amendment request and staff during our analysis of these criteria found that one out of the four criteria for a future land use map amendment had been met. And then there are two sections of Florida statute that provide third um different indicators or criteria to
judge whether a future land use amendment discourages the proliferation of urban sprawl. And so during our staff analysis in that first set of 13 indicators, we found that this amendment discourages the proliferation of urban sprawl under six of the 13 criteria
found in Florida statute. And in that second set of criteria or indicators, um staff found that this amendment discourages the proliferation of urban sprawl under three of the eight criteria found in Florida statute. And in conclusion, staff recommends
denial of the applicant's proposed future land use map amendment. This is due to the compatibility concerns, the sprawl criteria that we just saw on the previous slide, and the current lack of public facilities to serve an additional 1,50 residential units. And that is
outlined in section 2.5 of the staff report. And that concludes staff's presentation. >> Questions for staff. Applicant? >> Tyson Waters. Again, on behalf of the applicant, um the notices were turned in for this hearing at the LPA meeting. Um
I appreciate staff's review. We disagree with staff's analysis based on everything in our application and staff responses, but we do understand given the fact that the text amendment was denied that at this time it would not appear that we qualify um for this land use amendment.
>> Any further comments, questions? Is there a motion? >> Sure. Please come forward. >> I didn't come here for this again, but Why not just throw it out there? So, it's I was playing with chat GD James Crowley for the record. I was playing with chat GDP, which is I recommend
everybody get one and put it on your computer. It's a phenomenal tool. It'll do uh render drawings. It'll do land planning. It'll do it'll uh you can ask you can use it as a land planner. You can ask the county municipal code. It'll do everything for you. So, I was asking
about uh trailer homes and I was uh messing around and in 2007 you guys passed a no net loss mobile home. Do you guys have you guys followed up on that? No. Well, the numbers I came up with is that at that 2007 you passed it because
you were losing a lot of homes and uh that was around 6,000 mobile homes and now you have about 200 and that's uh pretty aggressive and they're losing there. I in Port a lot of those are in Port Salerno there's a thousand homes probably 500 ports Jensen Beach Hope
Sound places where you know where they're mobile homes you had 54 mobile home parks now you have around 27 and so my estimates over the next 10 years you're going to need about 5,000 mobile homes to catch up and I just thought this was like universe talking to me because I'm seeing you guys deny the
land use and thought maybe this is a great spot for mobile home park. Well, I mean, >> as many awful ones as good ones >> as my Okay, you know, I got to balance it out. That's my comment. >> Is there a motion?
>> I'll move staff's recommendation for denial. >> Second. >> There's a motion and a second. All those in favor? I >> opposed. That motion passes unanimously. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, members of the board. >> Apologize for my confusion, but Sir,
>> Mr. Crowley, would you like to address us for on another matter during public comment? >> Well, if I could just three minute limit start. >> Yeah, you're the only person left and then we'll go to commissioner comments.
>> Okay. Well, um, >> no, >> you don't want to make any comments. Okay. >> Uh, if you have any questions, that's why I came here. I just wanted to talk about that. I don't want to talk about >> Okay. Okay. Commissioner Caps, >> I'm good. >> Okay. I have something that I want to
bring up and that is is that commissioners, you are aware that in Port Serno, there is a core the core properties in downtown Port Solerno, the residents who live around there are very
opposed to development. They don't want any development to occur. and some of the development it is allowable there is three-story apartment buildings and I presume that this is the basis of most of their objections is that they don't want to see really dense
residential development there. So, I've been trying to to think of alternatives that are not development, but that also um are attractions that neighbors might
like to attend to to see in their neighborhoods. What do people want to do in their neighborhoods? Where are good examples of of good neighborhood attractors? And so I was thinking about uh my husband was a was a an airline
pilot. So I was able to uh travel all around the world. And one of the things that it is is uh omnipresent pretty much everywhere and has been for thousands of years are neighborhood marketplaces. >> Yep.
>> That's true. aren't residential development >> and they are the biggest attractors in some of the most memorable and most visited cities in the world. I was think all the pretty much all of the plazas in
in Spain, pretty much all of piazas in Italy um big open places uh surrounded by small businesses. I was thinking about Florence. If you've been to Florence, Pont Ponte
>> Veio Ponteio, >> it's gorgeous. It's a it's a bridge that has >> three story two and three stories of little >> stores, little shops, >> little shops. Um I was thinking of the the San Lorenzo market in in uh
Florence. Also in Venice, the Piazo San Marco. That's right. >> In Venice, the Ponte Dialto. Once again, it's a bridge and it's a bridge that's filled with shops and it's a destination. You don't go to these places without visiting these sites. In
London, the burrow market for food. Um, you don't go to when you go to Marrakesh, when you go to Tangier, you go to the Medina. >> I've been to Marrakesh. >> Um, you go to Frankfurt or you go to Boden Boden at at Christmas time and
>> it's so cold. It's just miserable. And we as Flidians don't have proper winter wear, but you bet I'm going to the Chris Creole mart. >> That's right. Christmas, >> you know, and it's the same sort of thing. And and and the the the the biggest one, the best example is
Istanbul, the Grand Bazaar. >> The Grand Bazar. So, so I'm just thinking, is this something that we might like to consider for a possible use in some of our CRAAS?
I don't know if this is a good idea or a bad idea, but I think it's it's it's it's an alternative to what people don't want. And if we and you know how much I love regulations. >> True. And I I would want these to be
very regulated. I don't know what ability we have to regulate them, but at any rate, that's regulations are among my favorite tools. So, it's just an idea that that is an alternative to uh a use that is permitted that people hate. And
I instead want the the uh CRAAS to be successful. And I want there to be attractive uses there that are enjoyed and perhaps loved. Mr. Vargas,
>> you know, I think that is a a wonderful th those are wonderful ideas to explore. Um I have been to all of the countries that you have spoken about. I know them very well. I lived in three countries, three continents. Um and worked there also. Uh, so I was able to really get
into daily life. Um, I think this might be something uh that we can take up and start looking at >> soon. Good. >> If not immediately, >> just reflect on it. Commissioners, I'm that's all I'm asking. Commissioner Campy, >> thank you. I appreciate and like your
idea. Are you speaking of a permanent market? >> I think so. Uh, and what do you recommend we do to take it from your announcement to >> what would you like us to do? >> I I I don't I don't know. I I want staff
to consider how we might uh execute th this vision and I'm not sure. We've never we've I've never contemplated something like this before. Um, but I do know that we need an alternative to the status quo and this is certainly an alternative. It has the potential to be
wonderful. It also probably has the potential to be awful. Um but but I but I think that's why we need to evaluate it. >> It brings people together. >> Yeah. >> I mean I I'd like to have a medina in my backyard. >> Cold medina.
>> Yeah. You know. >> Yeah. >> So something to think about. I'll bring it back. >> You can eat and shop. >> Yeah. You you know there there there's there >> times up for you. >> Food. There's you know jewelry sales. There's craft. There's food. There's there all kind of of marvelous uses that
are possible. >> Miss Elder. >> Um yes. I was just going to suggest that our office can work with growth management and the CRA to come up with a plan or some potential regulations and bring it back to the board as an agenda item um to amend our LDRs and make it a permitted use with different parameters
for the different CRAAS if the board um wants us to do that. >> Sounds terrific. >> I think if you're counting head nons, I'm nodding my head. >> Okay, >> those are my comments for today. I like that comment. >> Commissioner Campy, >> I have no comments. >> Commissioner Heatherington,
>> I'm all set today. Thank you. >> Mr. Donaldson, >> uh I have just one item. While we were in our meeting today, our uh public works department uh with uh the coastal division artificial reef um sunk a ship off our coast. >> Oh wow.
>> It was Yes. on purpose. It was a freighter that had been in the Miami River for some time. It got uh um uh cleaned up and uh and then uh any event um it it sunk around 2:00 I think today.
But what is a note to it for me anyway, for some of you perhaps. Um this the ship or the reef we're calling it has been officially named the Bu McCully Reef. And Bu McCully was a Fort Pierce resident uh for a very long time. and he
uh was and his company um uh McCaulay Marine was the one who sank all of our artificial reefs for a long time and since he's passed away uh we have not been able to find a contractor since that time hopefully we will maybe with
some luck with naming the ship after him we will get back in the business but >> if they help us >> but anyway it's a noteworthy individual who's helped us for a long time and uh in our coastal uh environment And uh so one we the uh uh the state of Florida
helped uh fund the project. Um apparently nobody wanted the ship and the group. >> Does the ship have a storied past? >> Yes, it does have well it kind of and it kind of fits Boo McCully cuz you know and and the Summerlands and the rest of our our contractors from that area up
there. But uh yes, in fact, while they were cleaning the ship, uh they found I don't know how many kilos of cocaine that were hidden within some compartments that they So, yes, the ship has had a storied career. And uh but
it's now uh in 180 ft of water off the coast. And I don't know if those are listening, it's 27° north, 12.304 uh minutes, and 80° west uh 0.41 411 minutes. Uh ultimately it will be
published but those who are scribbling down they can they can go out there with their GPS and find 180 ft. >> Wow. >> But it was the ship itself was uh 227 ft. So I'm sure it's occupying about 80 ft of profile. So >> you have something else also right?
>> Yes. And the other thing was regarding you asked the question about the um uh North River Shores and >> you have two other things. Yes. >> What's that? city. >> Yes. Yes. Two. So, we'll do the Yes, there the Thank you for that,
Commissioner. Um uh the North River Shores dock you asked earlier in the day and that um uh just to remind folks that our regulations on docks really shers along the shoreline in terms of uh shoreline protection zone and getting
through. Once you get into the water, uh it's largely an issue with the D. Occasionally we run into issues where people have concerns over repairarian rights or um and that sort of thing. And so in this particular case um uh the
county is not a party to the disagreement over the dock. It's really a private matter between the HOA and the adjacent property owners who are concerned about its construction. So we really don't have a role into it. that our building department has certain
guidelines issued by the state that if you meet certain criteria they have to issue a building permit in accordance with its structural requirements. The location of the of the project is not something that in the water we we
regulate the um uh our regulations are are are really rely on the D. though in this particular case it's a it's a civil matter and Miss Elder can weigh in if there's anything else. >> Um I think one of the allegations was
the POA didn't have the authority to bring it forward. We look there are there are deeds to the association so they own it outright. So they have the ability to bring the matter forward for a building permit. And if the res residents don't want it, that's also an
internal matter that they would have to sort out, you know, in like civil court. >> May I ask that your department craft a little paragraph or some language that we can use as a response so that people don't feel like we just did not respond. Correct. I just didn't know how to respond, especially when it was a legal
issue. >> We did to the we had two different questions. One was can you stop it and one was they don't have the authority. So we already crafted language to the can you stop it and we can't. So we'll craft language to the other one and give it to all the aids. Absolutely. >> I think that would be helpful. And and
the last item which is uh actually the the most important is um related to the acquisition of or the selling of the property in Palm City which we've been under uh contract um uh and and there's a potential delay in the closing um
while the uh purchaser secures their financing and and has some issu is issues regarding title which we're fixing. Um, I'm asking permission to allow us to uh grant them grant the purchaser uh per uh the ability to uh
postpone our closing. In return, we're asking for a nonrefundable um deposit um that would be um uh uh provided to the county in the form of cash or a or or or service so that um we
can um uh keep the c contract open. So, if your permission, um, county administration working with the legal department will, um, uh, provide the, uh, uh, purchaser, um, the ability to close later than the deadline, extend
the closing date. Uh, in return, we will, uh, secure a, uh, nonrefundable deposit. >> What What is that amount of that deposit? >> Uh, at least 30,000 is what we're looking for. >> Commissioner Campy, >> thanks. I think I appreciate that, Mr.
Donaldson. Part of though is that I think from what I understand the funding for purchasing it is secured. There was an issue that one of the county's public sidewalks did actually was manu
constructed on a bit of the property. Correct. >> Well, that goes to the when you did the surveys that the uh the property that we're willing to convey has part of our sidewalk on it. That's correct. So it wasn't like it was just the potential
purchaser saying, "Hey, I need more help." There was a little bit of a wrinkle in where the side public sidewalks were. So it's like a mutual situation, but instead of just saying yes, we are opting to look for approximately $30,000
as a hard deposit. >> And what's the postponement? >> 30 days. Correct. >> Approximately, >> Mr. Vargas. >> No, that was an old light. You need a motion. >> Move approval. Yes, if you can
>> move approval of that delay in the closing date that was described. >> Any further discussion? All those in favor? I opposed. That motion passes unanimously. Anything else, Mr. Donaldson? >> No, that's Anybody else?
>> Would you like to thank? >> We'rejourned. All right.