##VIDEO ID:6-zDcOZiNGw## agenda make a motion to approve the agenda second motion has been made and second to approve the agenda any discussion all in favor say I I opposed carried number three swearing in of new planning zoning commission members Ryan kusky and Dan litz repeat after me I Ryan kusky do solemnly swear I Ryan kusy do solemnly swear to support the Constitution of the United States to support the Constitution of the United States the Constitution of the state of Minnesota the constitution of the state of Minnesota and to discharge Faithfully the duties of the commissioner of for the Planning Commission of the city of Mayor and to discharge Faithfully the duties of the commissioner or the Planning Commission of the city of Mayor to the best of my judgment and ability so help me God to the best of my judgment and ability to so help me God welcome to the Planning Commission thank you Dan yes I Daniel Levitz do solemnly swear I Daniel litz do solemnly swear to support the Constitution of the United States to support the Constitution Constitution of the United States the Constitution of the state of Minnesota the constitution of the state of Minnesota and to discharge Faithfully the duties of the commissioner for the Planning Commission of the city of Mayor and to discharge Faithfully the duties of the commissioner for the Planning Commission of the city of Mayor to the best of my judgment and ability so help me God to the best of my judgment and ability so help me God welcome to the plan commiss thank you thank you guys um approval of the minutes from September 3rd Planning Commission meeting any discussion I'll make a motion to approve the minutes I'll second it motion's been made in second to approve the minutes of September 3rd 24 Planning Commission all in favor say I I I opposed [Music] carried um should we switch five and six by chance or not NOP we'll go in order okay okay discussion on text amendment to amend title XV land usage chapter2 zoning Section 152.000 3 definitions section 15209 outside storage and section 15291 screening of the multiple municipal code code of City of Mayor yeah I'll just kind of run through this quick so if you remember a couple months back you guys had a public hearing to amend the text in regards to storage containers within the city of Mayor um there was some discussion uh we had previously discussed it at a meeting before that as well and we had some draft texts there that you guys went through uh there was a recommendation for approval to amend the text that motion then went to the city council who discussed it at a previous city council meeting and they had uh some questions and have sent this back for further discussion um um on the draft text that we have here uh a couple of the items that the city council is looking for clarification on is what to do about enforcement of existing properties using utilizing excuse me utilizing storage containers um and what you know that would be out of compliance there are a few properties in town we discussed them at our meeting that do have these um I don't even know if they were all known before this kind of discussion came up but some of those may be in non-compliance based on the new code so the question is uh what do we need to do would these be grandfathered in would they have to be um updated and you know in some cases I think they'd have more than I think the three that was being proposed you know would they have to remove some so that's one of the things that the council talked about uh second item was disc discussed was a temporary use of storage cleaners for construction or moving uh one of the questions was um what's the time period for this temporary use you know if it's for construction purposes of six months is that sufficient um a lot of times you might see them when a building's being being constructed or a house they'll throw something on site they can store you know equipment and tools and things like that in there um or whatever and then when they're done with construction it gets moved to a different site or whatever so um basically that's kind of some of the things that were being looked at um I guess and if there's anything else that you feel that needs to be discussed or rebr up or talked about we can do that as well but we're here for some additional discussion tonight and basically a second uh new recommendation back to the council uh with this text Amendment um another maybe you know but I think another comment what had to do with you know why is this even needed if it hasn't been an issue in the past why are we changing this but I don't know if you have any more details on that standpoint or and uh it was reflected in that the uh Council asked the question why is this even coming up to us there hadn't been any complaints about storage containers to them it just kind of came up out of the blue as something to be fixed that didn't have any complaints coming forth in the first place um getting back to the uh to the temporary side of things they're looking for the construction end of things how long do you want them to be allowed to be there and then on the residential end of things for moving PODS things like that two different I think there's two different definitions of temporary to fill in there and then they came back and talked about uh how do we want to what how is the city going to enforce non-conformities once these new rules go into place I said it's nice that they're recommending up language but they haven't offered any resolution to how is the city going to take enforcement action if they have six containers or if they have a container that's Russ it out or not the proper color or in the wrong spot what are they recommending the city do about it rather than say here's a text amends adop them and leave the enforcement Mayhem yeah up to whatever may be so looking for guidance on that with these with this being proposed um so that those were the ones that uh Council wanted to have covered um my own personal thoughts as we were looking at this again um do we want to ask so do we want to see about having some of the reaching out to the business owners who have containers and specifically inviting them in for a conversation with us on this topic those being the ones that would be affected by it um I know we published for the public hearing but we didn't specifically go out and say this is something that's about to affect you you have Source containers right now we invite you in and let's have a discussion about it I think the first thing to probably bring up would be not answering the questions in order but the how did this come about and I believe it was council member Han brought up not so much I think he just wanted some kind of defined language or where do we stand on containers because he was seeing them throughout the city and wondered if they were if we could get language defining what the containers were and and their use because he didn't want it to get out of hand the number or how they look in in the community where they can be I think the general tenor of the commission was to not so much create a new enforcement mechanism but rather set defined parameters that would accommodate what we're already seeing um because the current state was that if interpreted the way we were reading ordinance as it stood they were already out of compliance so we were more so trying to Define what they what how containers fit into storage and uh not really tailor the ordinance to what already exists but to try to minimize exactly what you're asking which is how much enforcement would need to incur I don't think anyone's looking for additional enforcement or starting to make an issue out of something that isn't it was more so let's try to wrap the ordinance around what we're already seeing so that it isn't the current uh code violation that it is to to that point it probably would be nice to get input from them but um ultimately I mean that input would be in the context of currently the these are in violation we're looking at redefining or you know expanding defining and and expanding what's allowed and then seeking input from that point of view I suppose thoughts on the temporary the definitions for temporary construction versus residential construction I would say a project can go on for a year so I would say as long as you have the permit and you haven't fin ize the permit you get to have a container and if you need to say more time you need to if usually on a permit if you need more time with the permit you have to then write a letter to the city saying I need more time extension so that should be able to extend your container at the same time be about all I'd have that do a lot of people use that in construction residentially um they use pods a lot of times for you know move the furniture out type of thing and put it in the thir you know pod and then sometimes the pods if you don't have enough space they'll take it to a different location but if you have enough space they'll just leave it there I never thought of that construction and personal y so I think when you say having the constru the storage container temporary use on the construction end of things whether it's commercial or Residential Building it's Construction in general having it run with an active building permit makes sense yeah makes sense just because some projects are three months some are six some are a year depends on along right as as long as the permit isn't expired yep and once it's finaled then the storage container has got to be out of there within a reasonable time what about moving like if you used a pod because you're moving 30 days get out of a pod in 30 days what are you doing right yep I I moved a number of times and it takes more than 30 days you're dragging your feet procrastination yes so would people have to like apply for a permit to have it in there or is it just be if it becomes an issue there's documentation that like oh yeah I have seen it there longer than 30 days I I wouldn't want to issue temporary permits for construction I think is it becomes a reactionary base if somebody says hey this pod's been here for this long we go okay we'll send them a letter say 30 30 days from now you got to have it moved right okay code okay I'm a little new to the Planning Commission and some of the verbiage so just ask my questions so we would add verbiage in there for temporary or is there something already in there for that I think this was just talking about it just references temporary but it doesn't give definition to it so in this it sounds like for construction purposes it temporar is allowed as long as the building permit is active um as soon as it's finaled out it's got to be out of there been relocating 30 days or you have a better word for relocating yeah for personal moving purposes or whatever 30 days okay what does that sound for the Planning Commission that's reasonable reasonable and did that kind of cover enforcement no uh enforcement that was discussed at Council was you have a property with six of them on site the max we're proposing is three or they have two that are stacked or not saying you can't stack them or they have one that the color is bright pink and it doesn't match the principal structure what is Planning Commission proposing the city due for enforcement action are we going out and we're sending letters and we're going to force them or are they grandfathered in until it switches and then they have to know at that point it's got to come into Conformity or what do that mean so we get to decide if it's grandfather in or not that's you make the recommend up the council but our recom so it's not just a new ordinance everything is always grandfathered in there is instances where again and yeah there's instances on a new ordinance where you could enforce it give everyone a you know a period of time to come into compliance then you enforce it or there's situations where if you you amend the ordinance you can say well that was existing prior to it they'd be grandfathered in you know for instance if uh you change your front yard setback from 30 feet to 25 feet well there might be houses that are or 25 feet to 30 feet I should say might be hous at 25 they're going to be grandfathered in you know so same kind of principle here so was something this so where it's mobile I mean would we if we're going to say grandfathered in then how do we take inventory or stock of right now in this instance where things are or aren't I mean I mean it's City try to go out and look at every property and see who has them and who doesn't and what they have and document it or just because there's probably know what four or five property at the most in town that have them um and then we know what they have so if all a sudden they end up with instead of having three they have eight all of a sudden you're down the road we know that hey they're over the limit and that wasn't like there you know pictures are a good way to do that yeah you were showing site pictures that should help yeah exactly so and that that's the front that got me thinking about we invite these businesses in that we're talking about because we're talking enforcement yep bring them in let's have a discussion this is where we're going at this is what we want to see as a city do they have some clever ideas or how would enforcement look to them or what are they thinking about I think it's a good idea I I like that idea because you know as I said before our business uses uh containers for storage uh behind our building and I would like to hear like what are they using it you know like why we say three but maybe the maybe that number actually is four because of whatever reasons it's I think it's important to understand what why they're using it and maybe some things that we didn't really think about because we don't actually you know I don't physically use them if they have a bigger lot they can afford to have four or five containers versus a person that has a smaller lot can only have one or two so I mean the other okay containers on a lot you're not going to more tax building okay you want to pay the extra tax having I don't okay I I struggle with taxing these at this if we're only going to allow three I just say because I want businesses to be here I feel like they're a bad a bonus that I'm not interested in over taxing I think we pay taxes on a lot of things in this environment and so for me as a as a small business owner I think it's yes it's a revenue Source but I I agree like if there's a 100 containers that's why we have a limit so that they're not taking up the entire lot usage think like you say I think the idea of bringing them in and just understanding what the uses what what they're even using maybe they're just sitting empty maybe they're like yeah okay I'll get rid of that I mean yeah I thought I was GNA use it I'm not so right I only actually I only need three or so yeah okay that's all I have I think we got the text amendments there for the definitions I'll reach out I'll reach out to the businesses with containers invite them to our next meeting on December M 3rd as long as they can all make it if not we could push it to the January meeting whenever they can all make it get their schedules in line and then we'll get together and have a good conversation I really like that anything else on number five I think that's it John that's all I got at this point okay okay number six discussion with Preston Fox of Four Square builders on proposed old crey property use that's you good evening so I'm Preston Fox I'm actually here yes I work with four square Builders but I'm here as Fox properties um something I've done in the past for garage condo so the conversation came up with um just the old crey of you know what to do with that piece of property as somebody brought to my attention it was for sale the last gentleman that had his ideas just couldn't quite pencil it out and and um we have a little piece of property that has some challenges and and um I have some ideas so uh when Mr Johnson gave me the the invite to come on in he said let's have a quick conversation and see what what the city mayor's appetite is on my idea I'm not sure where you'd like to start I I brought a few little small sketches and um some small ideas um I think we have right now property that is zoned a certain way that doesn't quite meet what I'm looking for it's still commercial but a different classification um you have anything that you want to start with yep so I'll fill in a little bit of back that background uh the old creary property is currently Zone commercial uh two so in that we have our code here so commercial to permitted uses commercial establishments including but not limited to retail grocery store hardware drug clothing eating drinking places personal services Professional Services Finance Insurance real estate these are the listing of what's in the C2 District um for what Mr Fox is propos proposing uh John and I discussing it that would be a commercial industrial type of use uh in our conversations about uh the creary property C2 is what it is if there was a C1 type of use that had a downtown look and feel we were more comfortable with entertaining that when it goes full commercial industrial that's when I told Mr Fox at this point it's outside of my realm of interpretation of things and if you want to pursue that we would need to do a an amendment to the comp plan on that and then do a rezone and then I said at this point if you want to make your case to the Planning Commission I'll certainly put you in front of them to make your case on that so that's the background of it so yeah you certainly want to hand out anything you've got for the Planning Commission to take at well like I said so first and foremost with the property being need to be resed I may so the existing property with the old prary want that um what is there and what is surrounding it my my app is garage conos and I've done a few um complexes whether it's sitting around in PCH one in gleno one in town here would be my next idea um hopefully correct me if I'm wrong so for what I do need or what I would try to build would be more along the like said the industrial side and we're not quite there um with reading through the codes with reading through the ordinances try to try to find a balance between what is there to the north with the storage sheds to try to still um make it look more we don't I don't want to have my buildings look like a store um we try to do something a little nicer just a bit roof lines maybe some Stones some some different options but at the end of the day it still is um individual personalized storage um they are they've always been individual garages that are one big building but sold and counted up as a normal um smaller individual garage every garage has its own ID um we try to do and try to work with what is there we have that storm water Pond um there is there's some options there how to how to build around it um we talked about the existing the old well that's there um and again the existing crey which walking through it's a nice old building but it's it's old and it's well past it Prime so well past its prime so uh so yeah so my questions are um for you guys the the conversation is is is uh is a building like this something that the city would entertain um it would be an a request for resoning and also then probably a request for a variance just for um some of the property L just some boundaries the the initial where I'm at tonight so just to clarify this is for specific to storage or the like like businesses can come in and do auto repair or Auto Body things like that well there is some discussion on that um again in the past what I've done if they've been individual um more of a personal storage kind of units right um if if you to look or if you to look in some of them that we've built out it's it's guys that have some cars maybe some boats um some of them use them as their own personal like workstation space um but none of them have been open for a business that we can run a nine-to-five business out of I have guys that have like a I don't want to say motorcycle shop in but you know they'll fix and work on their bikes and they'll work on their client's bikes stuff like that but they're not a an open nine-to-five business and again that's just what I have done in the past not to say it couldn't be different here but I guess it just still a default um depends on on zoning and probably um just some of the the the documentation of the building how we do our yeah so what you're saying is that it could be used either way and there would be then an option for a business to so I think that's a little bit also for the city to decide on well I just mean for business growth yes no different than the fire station building is right now y I don't know C2 so anyway uh that's what I'm looking at could be storage or it could be a business going in there so it looks to me FL P there's option of sizes for that possibility to happen a business could start in some of the larger ones what are 30t wide so the majority of them are 30 ft wide 45t deep and there's a few in the corner just because of the layout there little bigger like two STS plus how would this sit on that property this is this is blue J that's blue J this is the storage shed side okay I'm only asking because we would lose all here's the stop sign off Street parking um for Fifth Street uh currently the the building that was uh is agave uh we they utili they don't have a lot of parking and that street is utilized so we would lose if if any restaurant moved into that other location where would people Park well if that's his yellow line you lose it they just didn't upgrade it I didn't follow where would they lose the parking so Street if that was the yellow line of his property this would be all cement like people wouldn't want people parking so when people parking we gave them a variance so they have parking here and everybody Parks right here alongside this road so if the building is like this this is all going to be driveway not necessarily how do people all these in so right here is your holding Pond right or your P we could still have this so so yeah so this and what I have kind of dialed in is that there's a small entrance here and then we would this all stays intact come around here the garages would be here coming around like that yeah so there would be an entrance into the the property just like it is now got right in front of that wellhouse so to speak um but yes nothing on the street in front of that that we'll be upon the change from from our side would come off of Ash Avenue and off of Fifth Street what's that Ash Avenue stre that's the east side straight North okay side of your lot there would be an entrance there um not necessarily um again that's probably one thing that have to get dialed in the rest of the way but normally because it is as the storage garages like personal the the use is pretty low so to have more than a couple cars there so you're just talking about one entrance on the yep okay I just I didn't think about that storage just so everyone knows right now the property is currently guided for commercial and zoned for the um uh C2 Central business district the um property to the north the storage sheds are whatever that is guided for commercial industrial and zone for C1 General Commerce so that's kind of what that general area is right now just everyone's aware of it no no it wouldn't the zone for downtown commercial you'd have to rezone this and reide this to commercial industrial that's why we're here for the discussion I'm looking at this building the same as the fire the old fire station building is but that's not that's not the same use though that's not the proposed use the proposed use is no the proposed use is personal storage for vehicles if you have storage it has to be in commercial industrial any sort of storage most people that purchase like they would actually be an owner like they would own that so it's like buying a house it's like buying a town home because they're all connected the person would purchase that I don't I don't see it I don't see people buying that and then next door it's a retail business like then how do you deal with parking well that's the thing if you have so like bring that up if you have um businesses going in there now you got to look at what potentially the additional parking will need um in Prior Lake they built a bunch of these and I know for instance um in one case they have like a CrossFit training facility there so there sometimes there's 20 30 people there but they have parking out front a big long row of parking all the way around the structure and that you know allows for people to park there on site um other people are buying them for whatever but in that case it was a business that went in there that use fits in that industrial district which is what that's s there is right but we would really struggle yeah you'd have to determine up front how much parking there is and then that would limit what type of business could go there so if we rezoned it so how do we limit that you know like because we could not limit would be based on the parking if they don't have enough parking they can't allow that business to go in there that's what you could do so who man who manages that yeah City staff any proposal would come through City staff of the type of business that was looking at purchasing a unit correct and if they have a business in there and they don't have the parking that business would not be allowed you know unless they went through like a Gaby did and got gets a Varian for that but that was a downtown type of structure this has been changed from the downtown district in the past the city has looked at downtown areas um a little more lenient on the parking side [Music] so the main thrust of the question is do you want this parcel to be a commercial industrial use for potential future use as well I that's a pretty big question because we don't know a lot of op you know we don't know are there other people interested this is the first person that's come to us with this much interest on on this piece of property you know I saw it more used as like I was hoping for some more of like a retail something that people could come to and not like being purchased as like a condo or more storage I know that it you wouldn't make it look like the boat storage but we have a lot of storage Ryan are you up in shim cor with your business my rental space yeah so this is something like you would be interested in for your business I mean not saying you'd be interested to move it's kind of like the same it would be more for what he's talking about someone that's yeah like you that has cars and stuff like that wants to that lives in the cities and that can't doesn't have a spot to put it so they come out here and bring the car yeah or if you're um like you have carpentry stuff you have to do some stuff that would be a thing there would be small contractors that just need a space to store store stuff but you know you're only going to be able to store stuff in that unit and then we have to make it so that they only can park in front of their door and that's it they can't park wherever they want and have a trailer and truck and trailer and all this stuff sitting around because that's what's problem with other Parts in simore there there's people park in front of other people's you for this one so this is a private public storage sorry a personal storage your parking is limited there's no there's no overnight parking there's no outside storage there's certain things um to keep it like I said clean to keep it simp simple um that way you don't have to deal with the I'm leaving my truck and trailer out overnight yeah just it just declutters takes that out of there do you have a HOA because you you do the plowing and Mowing and stuff type thing maintenance on the outside of the buildings so what we had was the old fire station which you familiar with that it's okay so so you know what it is um I think whether it was Eda or whoever decided that it was close to downtown so that should be a downtown theme and he's building out two of two parts in there right now um tenants are I don't know if he signed anybody up yet so that if if Le wants to you know say that they're not going anywhere or something like that but that's that was so it was such Prime for getting our downtown we have we need to have more available for downtown but that also too at the same parking issue too and then the city council so plan commission aged to use the actual City parking area yeah well even with I have a whole different theory on Downtown parking whether it should have to provide because Minneapolis or St Paul or whatever they just need to open up a frontage and you find your own parking um but you know here we're supposed to save that's his next to his property for Agave I don't believe that's fair no no I'm not saying I'm just saying always looking first but but but anyways I think it's what I'm saying is if you take even that old player station and throw it on that plot I think we'd still rather have that for downtown availability is what I'm saying yeah I'm for the theming of we have no place for people to start a business but but then we can say we can run to Mia for 10 minutes and not have businesses there well lot of people say they like going to a it's like a little vacation no your wife likes you going to aonia because it's a little vacation for her because they can get 10 more stores here it still isn't going to compete no it's not going to compete but anyway I mean that's a theme we have to think about but yeah but anyway idea of it blending with the other storage buildings kind of making a it's a blend but yet it's not the same in regards to the appearance I like that's part of it get back to your question or your comment on like for retail the only downfall is it costs a ton of money for new construction right and so that is a tough one especially when you have a a building that's there to tear down and plus the water that's there there's definitely some small challenges if you're going to do a res sorry small Commercial Business to get that in there and just the cost of loan so to look at um even if we looked at it in a different way of something that was more of a um main floor business and then upper level residential unfortunately nobody's going know pay $3,000 for residential rental up top and the same downstairs for business I just it's just it's huge cost for a too small of a lot for what is there so I mean that is a downfall um but the other part is right like you said people that are coming to town usually they have got a lot of our other garages um they are coming to town and they are they're using the town right they're going to be using the bars restaurants and they do um use some of the services that are around so we bring a little bit to town that way as well how um are all your units when you buy them usually sell out or do you still have some empty like I don't what's like your percentage of um like the demand so I don't have any available anymore um in either our Hutch or the Glen facility I build small scale so I'm only going to build in this case is one building but I only Built one building at a time and typically before I have this the shell up I have most of it already sold that's kind of how it's how it's been um again can I for the future it does well do you have bathrooms in these facilities not y yep well so each so what I do is we can sell them on different levels and what what I've done in the past is we we can start with cold storage garage if you will um and it does have sewer and water that would be roughed into the unit but then from there there's curb stops typically curb stops on everyone and if they don't turn the water on we just don't turn on yet all the way up to the guy that has the bathroom maybe a small kitchenet we've done mesing for storage um you inter your finishes in floor heat I guess it really depends on what the pl's looking for and from Airway which kind build the suit so you sell and then you can do the in floor heating y it is an option not necessarily as a hooked up right away but if you have the need for it then you do it y I don't know that lot is uh I remember when that lot was a lot different than it is now been changed a lot that I'm not going that but it would be nice to get rid of that building for sure we've been dealing dinking around with that for about 15 20 years and nobody could come up with a solution for that Now's the Time to do it well in defense of that um the city's never really put pressure on the current property owner until I got here it was brought up many times and there was never a solution I understand but the city never put pressure on the current property owner since he obtained it to do anything substanti option CH they actually time no I understand that but that's what I'm talking about pressure on a property to do something with a dilapidated property is different than somebody saying yeah I'll kind of do something maybe it actually looks better now than it did 10 years ago if he when that guy didn't own it well I mean had fences we were part of the whole history and you know just like you were saying just the cost of not knowing what it is to demolish the building or get rid of it that was a big financial burden on the city to right but that's one reason why I think that it was given back to the county but anyway that's doesn't that's not part of this conversation so I think the circle back around anything else you'd like to add before no just whatever comments you guys have or thoughts trying to keep it as a down town space or I figure out maybe that's what I'd like to see but I'm only one but I do love car condos I just think they should even if they're in an industrial park an industrial parks um and I don't know if they're even allowed in the industrial park for what it really is is we really want business up there but this would be great for up there if you ask me one lot left so the question before planning Comm uh the Planning Commission from Preston is the old crey lot specific is what he's proposing something you want to rezone to allow or do you want to keep it as a C2 downtown use I personally want to keep it what it's zoned currently the way I look at it it can always be resed later if something happens just like we're doing now what if the place burnt down and wasn't going to be at this point that's irrelevant we have a proposed last we we dealing with the same situation sir don't cut me off you're cutting me off no I'm not yeah we have a proposed use in front of us we're not talking about what ifs we have proposed use in front of us for a car garage space do does the Planning Commission want to recommend up to city council to rezone it so that this may be allowed from its current zoning use Preston is looking for that answer soing it the same as the bo shs is that what we're doing correct no both shs are Zone C1 there C1 yes both shs are Zone C1 they're guided for a commercial industrial on the future land use plan so if we were go this way we' regu this commercial industrial and then reone the commercial industrial because that's what we the C1 use would allow for the storage we've had discussions in the past about the boat sheds and rezoning that from C1 C1 do commercial industrial to match the use my stance would be the same as the fire station as far as it may take 50 years to 100 years to get business there but that's my stance so whatever you know we could have said the fire station could had storage but we chose to go downtown um a lot of people wanted to buy that for storage too so I see it as kind of the same thing so I would have it's too close in years to change my mind to say well that didn't work we'll do something else over here but I I would I would have the same stance as a fire station so if you can read my answer on that one but I'm only one person well I'm looking at the availability of the land that's on that lot as to what's usable for this person or any other whether it be commercial or other wayse because of that pond for instance kind of messes up that whole lot there and only thing that I can see that would fit on there in regards to structur wise would be what we proposed propos right here and I and and that of course doesn't allow much parking but in the in in the event of being thrown otherwise like Tom wants it there wouldn't be availability for parking anyway because the pond is there the pond would have to be moved and U I don't even know where Pond's there really but you know something happened that so I I for for it as it is because it it Blends in with the storage buildings we got and uh which just kind of breaks it up a little bit for for entering into the other phase of the zoning of the city and there's also that uh option of getting rid of the old building that isour building that's probably very dangerous if some kids would go in there and get hurt liabilities so I I think it's a good deal as far as the parking and I think it would be right to Zone it that way as far as the parking I don't see it as much of a problem even if these were individual businesses I just don't see it as that much of a problem whether like a dentist or hairdress or whatever whether I mean what are they 30 feet 30 wide and 45 so that's three cars in front of each one I don't I don't see a business that takes three cars I mean that's that may be a little low maybe a little high depending on the business but I don't think parking would be an issue if that kind of strip mall would be I know it's not a big football field worth the parking but it's downtown too got a different theory on parking I guess but parking's been an issue in this Stone since 1886 so yeah I would lean isue it as downtown as is H too can't have a perfect parking situation I'm sorry there's only so much space downtown so I would maintain keeping it zoned as is I think it's a it's a great proposed product that I would love to see in town but um you know not right in the middle of town that's kind of thoughts uh yes I was looking more for retail with condos above I guess Dan I would agree I was going to ask the question but I don't with with the parking topic as well as the pond I don't know if the pond is something that could be moved or not but would there be a possibility of retail in the front and doing part of the condos you're proposing in the in the back so you still have that hybrid space but I just don't know that that it would be the right like you said the the right location for something like this I think the idea is phenomenal I could be see myself being a customer for something like this I just don't I don't foresee it like you say I don't foresee it in that that space fair enough perfect all right thank you thank you thank [Music] you you want to stay for the next one yeah discussion on cannibal cannibalism okay I was going to bring something up in regards to a business district when we did our has the plan for the uh boys down in the cities there we we we're looking at reestablishing business district on you remember anything about that [Music] Mr what was that you weren't here when that happened I don't think remember we were establishing Zoning for uh having business district on County 30 going east are you talking about downtown yeah well I know there was somebody at discussed on the vinm property one time trying to make a downtown area there but that never went anywhere is that what you're talking about that was a possibility well somebody brought it up in just one meeting thing with City staff that they would look at doing that and went no further than the first meeting so everything going along 30 what's that that uh right now it's not even in the city so it's not zoned anything right now it is for it's long term where the trunk Highway 25 bypass and 30 cross there would be potentially some future commercial there like Highway commercial C1 that's potentially the plan be that map right behind you there on the wall that little red spot that's that you're talking about yeah so that that intersection would be looked at as a bigger intersection at some point in time in the future so that's not look to be a downtown though District it's just look to be it's like Highway commercial which could be like you know maybe a gas station or you know little strip mall with some fast food in or something like that property we have for main main business district which is it's very limited as far as the terrain goes and everything else and it's two blocks long yeah I know there was discussion about doing that long well it was discussed to be commercial not necessarily downtown commercial the guide is for Highway commercial like it is up on S and 25 which be more like your Highway type businesses so that is in the works if somebody was ever going to develop that that could happen so there's a lot of overlap between those districts and what uses can go into both districts sometimes we're moving on we're moving on is that what the silence was all about yep number seven number seven discussion on cannabis zoning regulations so the UPC uh now with the upcoming uh Regulation and Licensing by the office of cannabis management starting in January of 2025 one of the items that cities are tackling is cannabis types of business and where they are going to be allowed to be zoned and established within our zoning districts so the office of Canabis management one of their tasks that they were uh set with is to provide a template ordinance for cities to use that they can then build off of to guide that use so we've taken that John and I have been working on it and the section that we're looking at here is under zoning and land use it's a couple pages in on the whole uh it's after it's in section three zoning and land use um so we have a handful of businesses and we want to go over this with the Planning Commission to make sure what we've got it slotted is what where the Planning Commission wants to see these types of businesses go so all of these have been listed as an interim use permit type of use and the reason that was selected by John and I is an interim use permit runs with the person not the land a conditional use permit runs with the land so if you were to permit this under a conditional use permit there would always be able to be that with an interim if it ever changes happens the city gets the opportunity to take a relook at it as cannabis may become more common place as years go on this could fall to the Wayside but this tends to be where we're going with it just to make sure you have that level of control moving forward so the first one we have on up here is cannabis cultivation this would be planting in fields or an agricultural like we talked about with u arola Farm some sort of Hydroponics or indoor type of growing or out in the field type of growing and for that uh John and I initially thought either in the Agri Cultural District or in the commercial industrial district would be the best places for those any uh any discussion on if there are other types of zoning districts you'd like that to go in the only other two really available would be the C1 or the C2 on this so we'll take this right line by line here any objections to Agricultural and commercial industrial for cannabis cultivation seems like the right fit or do we have agricultural yes okay yeah you do the only area that's currently agricultural is up in the um uh what do you call it the Township area on the north side of town there um that you have zoning authority over on the east side of 25 so that area is zoned agricultural right now is that that white section uh no that's the land use map is there's only map up here no there's not there it is so that green area on that so that green area is technically within the township um but we have zoning authority over that through the annexation agreement with that Township so the city does have the ability to regulate stuff in there if you remember there was a shed that went up on this property right here a couple years ago with that new owner so he had to go through a process with the city Tech even though he is technically in the township so this is the egg District right here all this are someone could come to us and say between Fieldstone and that shed ask to plant cannabis yes so where this gets tricky now is the use that they're proposing doesn't meet our land future our long-term uses for what we're looking at you know in some of these areas we have commercial here and this is where the land use map behind you comes into play I'll get that up still up here we go yeah so if you look at this you know this is kind of where these lines Dash lines are future roadways you know you got some higher density stuff that could fill in there then you got commercial up on the intersection of 25 and 7 you know right here is residential so if somebody wanted to put in a facility right there it would be an interm use until you know potentially we could have a set a deadline on there that one SE and water is available or maybe they need sewer water to run their facility um and at that case they'd have to Annex into the city um and then we could reone to what we want so there's some things that come into play with some of that now if somebody was way up in this far corner and they want to do some sort of business there that was temporary they could use a septic system or whatever the city could look at that as an interm use permit that has a sunset CLA in there that one sewer and Waters available and they're able to Annex in the city that use goes away and has to be moved so that's why the interterm use makes sense where a conditional use would run with the land and every owner that buys that prop do that so so that that you have some ability to put Sunset dates in that interm use for certain circumstances now if it's right along the city border I'd be very careful about allowing it because those properties are pretty much ready to go from the develop standpoint if somebody want to develop them right now whereas way up here it might take 20 years to get there and isn't didn't we do we did this in a workshop where like even if you wanted a retail there's really not a lot of spots in in mayor that would meet because you have to be so many feet from like a school from a a playground yep and I that's further down the list here I'm just taking each one one by one and there Z classification make sure it's aligned with what we want to see going so this one it would be you'd have to have a permit it have to be approved and the permit would go away if that land use was for what we changed or potentially I mean depends what you put in the permit I guess I would recommend something be in there that it's a temporary deal until water sewer development's available and it goes away that's why interest okay because because I'm really not interested in having fields of this close to city limits but you can't limit it correct to that level you need to regulate it as a city it's something that's allowed through the state so you need you said to regulate it okay that's where we're that's a discussion where do you want to allow it now the only other area that could come into play long term from the zoning standpoint is there is some turn you know talk we've had it in the past about creating a straight industrial district not just commercial industrial but for only industrial uses I know the vkm property at one time was looked at as that possibility maybe you allow it in there if it's some sort of greenhouse facility as well as you know but that District doesn't exist today it may in the future but as of today it does not could you on this vein if we want to keep it away could you take like right now we've have have that entire swath as agricultural could we rezone chunks of it that are closer to the city to what their future potential us are and then as that happens we could the problem that and the reason why this kind of exists is because those uses are agricultural and by rezoning it to you know residential or high density now you become kind of a non-conforming situation and those people you know they have the right to Annex at any time if they want to sell for development until that time happens I guess you know they just stay in the township and pay a different tax rate or whatever it is so they still have to get a permit because like what if the person the own homeowner that has the shed yeah what do they have any say in that permit or would they well if they own the shed they would have a say in it is that what you mean well I'm just saying like the property that butts up to that to them yeah I mean they would if it's a public hearing line through an interm use permit they could come to the hearing so that would be a public hearing kind uses are processed the same as a conditional use which requires a public hearing so even though they're in the township we would have to hold a public hearing here at City Hall okay the city of Mayor if you remember a while back there was someone proposing a solar garden on that property and the city did not have interest in it because it was long-term looked at being residential or development and they EV I don't remember how went down but they kind of went away after so didn't meet our long-term land use plan and we had said you know you could put solar guard in industrial areas like down the vinm and they weren't interested at that point so that kind of the same thought here okay so for canab cultivation in commercial industrial what would that look like is that more like a greenhouse like you said the arola Farms had something similar they were proposing at one time not for the Cannabis not Canabis but a greenhouse so if they wanted to do greenhouse and produce cannabis that's where the commercial industrial would come into play yeah I think limiting it to those two those two seem reasonable if this is the product we're talking about fine yeah next on is cannabis manufacturer so the Cannabis cultivator would sell this to the manufacturer would have a facility that processes it turns it into product whatever that product may be uh John and I felt probably the only good spot would be commercial industrial for that you generally wouldn't want it in a C2 or a C1 or anything like that y all right then we have a hemp manufacturer same classification as cannabis manufacturer manufacturing and commercial industrial good on that front yes excellent next is wholesaling so once it's manufactured it could go to a warehouse or a wholesaler that then then would distribute it down to the retail size uh for a wholesale having that in the commercial industrial so in a on a shim cor like District seemed like the best fit for that rather than maybe a C1 type of use or anything like that sound good okay then we get to cannabis retail uh and Nikki this is the one you were talking about cannabis retail we had that in the C1 C2 and commercial industrial for allowable uses now this gets a little tricky because if we go up here minimum buffer requirements this comes into play so buffer distances of a proposed cannabis business to the proposed property line these come into play on the retail side uh so we could prohibit those within a th000 feet of a school 50 500 feet of a daycare 500 of a residential treatment facility or 500 feet of an attraction within a public park that is regularly used by miners including a playground or Athletic Field I do have a question into ocm whether a Regional Trail qualifies since miners use that I haven't heard back from them yet it's been a couple weeks I'm sure they're swamped with questions on a lot of stuff but I did submit that as well is that similar to alcohol by Chance the setbacks no nope uh let's see here get that map Up N talking it pretty much limits one little section so I used our GIS tool to draw circles so the boundaries actually are would go from not the center point of the property but they would extend out from the property lines now the gis tool doesn't do that all that well so I did basic circles to give an idea of these are the buffer lines from schools Zion and mayor Lutheran from playgrounds to those other features drawing those footages out so if we zoom in on here the entirety of the downtown is blotted out maybe up in here in maybe some of these boat sheds you might get it but again this concentric circle of a th000 feet from a Lutheran is right from their dead center it's not from their property line so that may shove it out even further to cover those areas um so I would even discount these out covers all here and then we do have Meadow Park on the south side which shaves off little bit here but otherwise Jim cor is left unscathed so when you talk cannabis retail business down in shim cor is about the even though C2 is available and that doesn't mean that sometime down the road say up here or another spot as the city grows more C2 becomes available there might become a spot that becomes open that isn't covered this area right here is guided for commercial so that could be a possibility but there is the Discovery Park right here that doesn't have the circle so if you ran a circle around that would limit some of that as well yep so you'd have a circle about like that which would knock out all that land because there's a playground there as well I joked around maybe that's a strategy to start throwing part playgrounds up there you go it's a buffer strategy I'm that's a joke it's a joke legal Minds watching um it just really limits it to a certain area but so even though it's so when you look at the ordinance and you say yeah we're going to allow it in C2 at as of today there's no C2 available for it to go in when the buffer kicks it out but that doesn't mean at some point in the future there might be a C2 spot that's outside as City grows because of some other reason for some other reason yeah but this gives everybody an idea of what's getting blotted out by those buffer requirements as we look at what's included and what's not yeah it's fun putting this together and realizing how much just got kicked out this is cons save yeah Lea could s well mayor Lutheran and Zion being positioned where they are with their thousand foot circles that easily wiped out a lot of this so really it's down here I can't go to the mobile anymore I even joked you might even be able to Mayor Lumber could open up a sweet in there and little side hustle that's why you're looking at the Dakota rail trail then that would be bumped out yeah Dakota rail trail you'd have 500 ft in either direction of it that wipe out a of two um so that's that's what we have listed as as a if you look at it as a retail business I'm sorry I get to the right one cannabis retail it was just generally retail whether or not you like cannabis or not we thought it would be acceptable in c1c2 and commercial industrial type of setting you're alling it any objections to that classification for the retail side of things no no cannabis transportation business um I know if we'll ever see one of these but this is specific Trucking for cannabis uh people who transport cannabis on the state level have to have a license for Trucking that and transporting it so if they ever had a cannabis based transportation business we felt some of the cars we impounded kind of talking like a warehouse type situation or what um I like loading Bays loading docks where they would bring the product in from the a Depot type of thing truck it out centralized type of stuff we' be looking at with this over that we got commercial industry would be about the only place that'd be acceptable wouldn't be a C1 or C2 type use cannabis delivery on the other hand so Transportation you think the mass mass transportation of it for delivery it would sometimes there are e businesses that would contract with a uber eat level type of arrangements and then if you're delivering it you need to be licensed with the state for that so if they had that look um in the C1 C2 or CI commercial District probably even look at Crossing out C2 off of that could if you wanted to ask that out from C2 but the so they would have delivery vehicles rather than semi- trucks on the transportation actually talking through it if you wanted to strike C2 that that wouldn't necessarily be a C2 type use so if you wanted to have it C1 or commercial industrial yeah you can Lim it to that that yeah I like that okay and that's what I've got for looking at for the zoning classifications that's a long and short of that so I'll X out that one C2 for delivery and I think we're good on all other parts you want to talk about hours of operation oh hours of operation um I threw in here just 9:00 a.m. to 900 p.m. so under State laog let me get that up so this is the office of cannabis management guide B that they put together once it loads there we go this is available on the website so if you want to peruse through it it's a lovely read I'll get down right to the meat and potatoes of it optional there canis there we go so hours of operation with state law it is a uh these businesses are uh uh retail is allowed to operate between Monday and Saturday 8:00 a.m. to 2 p 2 pm and then on Sundays 10:00 a.m. to 2: a.m. this a little bit reflects the liquor laws however they allow local jurisdictions to restrict that further on the end so by default if you don't regulate they could be open 8:00 a.m. to 2 p.m. Monday through Saturday and then 10: am. to 2 am on Sunday the extra language here local jurisdiction May adopt an ordinance prohibiting sales for any period between the hours of 10: a or 8 AM and 10: a.m and then 900 p.m. and 2 am so the way you look at this is they've got the core hours there but then they're saying local jurisdictions you can bump up the ends to shorten that up if you want want to so you we could leave at 8: a.m. or we could make it as early as 10: a.m. and then on the back side you could leave at 2 am. but you could bump it up bump it back to 900 pm and cut off that extra time on both ends so I threw in 9 to n that's really a placeold or number in there um throwing that out for discussion what would the planning for retail types of businesses what kind of time frame would the Planning Commission like to see and send up to city council for consideration so if uh if like they were okay so let's just I know that the like let's say the gas station has a liquor store M so could it be a similar like that like let's say that liquor store now was a canvas I know it can't go there because of all the other but so they would have to is it Like Liquor where they you have to have a separate entrance to the establishment or is that establishment you know does that make sense like because yes I know what you're getting at the answer is I don't know I'm just curious if they treat it similar to alcohol so the gas station is open but that you couldn't purchase the whole time it's open correct is that kind of what you're saying if you have a liquor store attached to a gas station they have to have their own outside entrance correct um and then that way if they have different hours that has to shut down but you can still go into the gas station so they could so if we if that was let's say they decided to have a cannabis store instead of a liquor store they can't because of whatever I'm just using as an example of that I can think about think it through they would be only able to sell that from 9 to n if that was our hours not 8 AM to 2 am or the hours they were open yeah so let's just say the gas station's 24 hour let's just say for ease this would limit the sale of those cannabis products between those hours so even though the gas station's open other times they can't sell it outside of those hours okay but you don't basically saying that since the liquor store can only be open from 11: till 10: that's only hours they can sell because they can't have another entrance if they could have another entrance into their no nope so for new builds so for off sale that we're talking about with liquor I do know of instances where there are existing stores that are old enough where they still have the unified combined entrance where you walk in and there's liquor here and there's other stuff over here that's because the building's so old and they've been operation so long that they're grandfathered in and that regard if you were to build today you would have to build a separate entrance like Target when they added alcohol it's a separate entrance yep that's why the gas station had to do the liquor side but what I'm saying is so the Liquors is open from 11: till 9: whatever it is that's the only time you can buy cannabis if that's your hours right so let's say Ryan goes to the gas station store with the Cannabis attached let's say the hours are 9 to 9 you go at 10:00 p.m. you say hey I want to buy this cannabis product they're going to tell you no because it's outside the even though you can grab it bring it to the register can't they should be telling you no because it's outside the hours of operation and if they sell to you that's a violation we can yank their license it's like tobacco sales too yeah if they're in violation of the ordinance we can yank their license on that but couldn't you make it so they only sold the Cannabis on the liquor side I don't know if the state law is that clear just because that way there's no way for you to not sell out of ours cheap well yeah so require them to put up walls well we require them that they can only sell it on that side of the on the liquor side on the liquor side I was just using that as an example of like I'm curious I I don't know if that's the detail we I was just trying to understand the N9 to9 that I don't know if you can make them retroactively throughout walls to block it I I don't know I'm just saying you know I mean that way you kind of make it so it is restricted for that time period and yeah places itself a little bit so the so to be the Devil's Advocate the more you restrict this keeps the days dealers still in business so I me what what's the purpose of restricting these hours versus anything else that's gonna just saying just being a devil's advocate what's the what are the hours for alcohol uh I believe alcohol is Lou okay and the start is it 10: a.m. 11 am what's the I think it's 8 am okay I think off the top of my head the liquor stores till one or the bars the bars are open till one so but we're also H I think they changed it you can be up until two but bars can be and you sell you can sell but that's the difference between on sale and off really on sales you consum it on premise so that's like a bar heads you buy your drink you consume it that's on sale license off sale is you went in I buy a sixpack of whatever and I go take it home you can't consume it on site and those hours are what you said is what is it again8 and 10 or 8 and 11 for Al off I'm just trying to understand what to relate it to that I currently understand right I'm just gonna look it up right I just feel like it should just mirror alcohol sales it's H what I'm sorry I missed it I just think it it makes sense just to mirror it to to off sale alcohol like I would think so you're it's an intoxicating product just correct keep it simple another city I work in Rush City that's what they're doing yeah they're gonna mirror their Al keep it simple and do the same as whatever the off sale hours are if that sounds good I'll do that research and if that's the recommendation mirror the hours for cannabis to that what of off sale intoxicating liquor then there's not a then you're not confused keep it simple yeah liquor stores I know they have a Sunday they're open Sunday now and I forget the time it's like 11 or noon before they can open in the morning or something like that y great matching off sale hour sound good yeah yep good that smart uh that's it for cannabis next meeting Tuesday December 3rd everybody fine with that I don't know yet but probably number nine number nine commissioner's report anybody got anything on anybody else thatone lesle Les would you like to take care of number 10 come on you can do it the new do it let no guys number 10 what do you got adjourn motion to adjourn have a second second motion second to adjourn any discussion all in favor say I iose carried thanks guys m