the order approval of the agenda um do we want to add that other item or yes uh one addition to the agenda uh we can add it at towards the end after uh discussion on proposed storage container text Amendment we do have two people interested on serving on
the Planning Commission Dan Levitz and Ryan kusky so I'd like to have a motion or have an item that we recommend approve to them to join the Planning Commission up to city council going to give it number what
number eight or number 4 a 4 a 4 B actually 4 B what there should be any other any other business on the agenda so we made a motion or not I'll
move to approve the amended agenda I'll second motion has been made in second to improve the minutes no improve the agenda in front of you all in favor say I I opposed carried approval of the minutes for July 2nd
[Music] 24 make a motion to approve the minutes I'll second motions been made in second to approve the minutes of the July 2nd 24 meeting
minutes any discussion all in favor say I I opposed carried 4 a would be discussion on proposed storage container text Amendment well I'll kind of just go through this quick uh last month we had a discussion about um storage
containers and went through what uh the Planning Commission felt like they may want to see uh so what we did here tonight is bring some draft text before you uh this text is not it's not a public hearing anything tonight so it can be amended and changed and we can call for a public hearing if we're
satisfied with it um but what we're here to is discuss this language tonight um basically what I put together is uh you know on page one of your report is a definition for storage container we brought that up at the last meeting and then under Section 15290 outdoor storage
um we added some language under there with letter f being the big one regarding storage containers uh uh basically what we're saying is storage containers um will be considered outside storage and shall be allowed and we said in the agricultural commercial
industrial and the C1 General Commerce District uh shall not be allowed in any residential districts um the C2 business district or the pi public institutional District unless it's on a temporary basis for construction or moving purposes um applications shall be
submitted to the city and reviewed for zoning compliance and then I have a list of nine requirements uh one thing I want to bring up is a couple um things Nick and I talked about in regards to um some additional language uh one of the items that we talked about is line them in the public institutional District as a
possibility as well which is the district like for City Hall and parks and um City properties I guess stuff like that so uh there was potentially a request to allow a storage container for some storage stuff I don't know if that's still moving forward or not but
um that would be one item that we could disc us as far as the nine um items under the under that section uh storage containers would be considered an accessory use uh no permanent detach accessory storage
container basically it's it's it's a shall be considered a principal use instead of uh an accessory use so it's not a principal use it's accessory use and it shall not be collocated in a lot prior to construction of a principal structure um in regards to number
allowed we talked about three so we have three storage containers located in a lot uh for the use uh they shall not be permitted to be rented or lease to third parties for storage purposes and shall only be used by the owner or occupant of that lot uh Dimensions we have uh shall
not exceed 40 feet in length 8 feet in width or 10 feet in height and shall not be stacked on top of each other uh location they shall meet all accessory building setback requirements and shall only be located in the rear yard uh one of the other things we talked about is allowing them potentially in the side
yard in the commercial industrial district yes go ahead um I wonder if some containers aren't eight and a half feet just to be technical on the with yeah yeah and we can put that in there just to be know long as we going into it yeah because I think that's the
semi-trailer is it's probably set up eight and a half tell you the truth just guessing just a turn maximum height too could you or I think the idea is to allow whatever the standard sizing of shipping container are you don't accidentally
want to say 9 feet and you got a n and a half foot one and I you have to yeah deny the thing if the bed of a trailer is four feet off do you know this stuff Donnie is that like a bed of a trailer four feet off the ground 10 feet that's four four 14 feet then you that's
probably Max but yeah I'm not sure either but I'm sorry continue all right well it's just one of those little things you go get caught on storage containers okay so if there's 50F Footers I guess we can talk about if we
want to go with a 50-footer or keep 40 as a Max you know that's something up to you guys uh the next one six is lot coverage um unless being used on a temporary basis for you know moving or construction purposes uh the storage container shell count towards the lot
coverage requirement for the district is located in so if it's there for you know years at a time um that should count towards that uh no signs no lettering or uh signs or lettering shall be perit on the storage containers another item we talked about is actually if a storage container comes and it's got like the
name of the company on it some of those do that would be allowed but it would be no like new advertising or if it's screened yes yes correct so you know so that would be well we can talk about that too in the sidey yard stuff um so
that's kind of what we're talking about uh screening this language says they shall meet the requirements of section 15291 uh screening and uh basically uh unless the owner Paints the storage container to match the principal structure on the lot screening shall be
required when the storage caner buts a residential district or a public RightWay another item we talked about is uh the actual paint on the thing do we need to to Really match or can it be a complimentary color um you know if it's it's a gray and you want a different shade of gray or something similar
that's probably okay I guess so maybe we can talk about that language um and then the last one is exterior appearance basically we're saying starge cleaner shall be maintained in a good a good condition free of structural damage rust deterioration and shall be painted in a
manner uh to match the principal structure on the lot uh if it is not screen per the screening section of the zoning ordinance so basically um that's kind of the draft language here um you know there's I got the screening section
below just so you have that for reference and what it says in the code because that is referenc in this section and I did uh uh add one little line in that first paragraph about you know it shall be a planty may be substituted for a screen wall or fence or incor incorporated into screen Waller fence
you know basically just saying you can have a an option or you know mix that up if you're doing that so which really you know different situation than what we're talking about here um so basically those are the that's what we're talking about we're here for discussion um you know we're trying not
to you know allow too much of this but yet we don't want to be so restrictive that nobody are going to be able to do these um but adding into the side yard in that commercial industrial district you know that's something we'll definitely talk about here tonight but I guess with that um all we're looking for is discussion recommendations and the
plan would be if everything's in place we'll bring back the actual code or draft next week and or next month and with a public hearing and go from there so you can start talking here I guess it's amazing where you see them yeah you know when you look for them you see them
and like well that's a kind of a decent place and yet they're not painted and you know but some other stuff too just one I saw it's in brainer um if you take the shortcut to 210 it's a gray building and then they have it where the
doors are on the side like it must be a drop off and uh post office has a little one that's I can't remember if it was Amazon's or whatever but just just different applications summer storage for used tires and right right in a like Good Year type of thing and you see them
all over if you look but um did did you check with any other towns as far as what how they were or I didn't uh I wasn't able to make the last meeting I wish would have been here
I haven't checked with other cities and how they do things um but uh I did I have I you know I looked at this for that other community I work in um you know within six months ago and uh this is fairly liberal for other communities
a lot of other communities a lot more restrictive right um so this would allow for them um it's you know where's that break point where you're allowing too much of it but most other communities it needs to be fully screened they do allow them whether it's you know one or two or three on a lot and typically it's only
in industrial properties that they're allowed on so we have a kind of unique District in town your commercial industrial district um which is got a lot of industrial uses like o and shim Cor uh but it does allow for uses like a Casey's for instance um we also have uh
the C1 District which we're uh currently showing them to be allowed in and on a bigger discussion that we had is the properties up here kind of off of seven and uh 25 do we look at maybe resoning that to a commercial industrial those few properties um that may you know we
got the storage buildings and things like that most of that use fits in the industrial commercial industrial district better than the C1 district and ultimately the C1 district is like a highway commercial and for instance if you look at the zoning map everything up
on Highway 7 and 25 up on the North End of town which is technically not in the city but it's in the zoning area that would be a commercial area that would be Zone C1 and is that something where you have these bigger commercial establishments out on the highway where you want storage containers so that's
why you know as part of this discussion you got to think about that if we allow in the C1 that could potentially be allowed in those areas or the properties that are currently dealing with that do we just look at a reone to C1 or excuse me CI commercial industrial which would solve the problem all those uses would
now be conforming to the district and uh go that route so that's kind of maybe part of the overall discussion on what's best for the city here I guess John and I had I wasn't here I gave John a call after got the notes and um some of the items we discussed he did
go um some of the questions I had I was that C1 versus a CI distinction what would you allow on shim cor versus say up in the C1 District I think nuring is an example we have there uh there any
differences you want to look at there and then I also think about rented storage containers versus owned storage containers uh that came into my mind when I read the materials on wanting that strict coloration to match the principal building and I thought to
myself well if I'm renting storage containers do I always have that ability to choose that very specific color or are would the Planning Commission be okay with Earth Tones or something that's complimentary so there's a ability there um so renting how long
would that be and you know I could it be 20 years you're going to rent it screening would take place in that case wouldn't it well if it sits there and it's rented and gets changed out every so often how is that that much different than one that is owned and then
permanently there I guess the difference becomes then with the signage and the lettering if you're renting something the company that actually owns it might have their logo and then an identification number on there is that then okay but no post
postmarket um aftermarket lettering something like that then that is something that's not a because we don't want people throwing up advertisements on the side of their storage containers um but if it's there for temporary and as part of their business operations
it's inventory container it's there for three six months or whatever along and then it gets swapped out for a different one that has inventory on it but just the renting I you can see where two people a family a couple whatever could own this container they could own this
building that their business they rent this business to them well now they own they're going to rent this container to them so technically it's rented no so that you know what I'm saying I know what you're saying yeah yes but in the language that's proposed thirdparty rentals like that are not allow this
would be if you you still owned R&V and you wanted to have a shipping container come in that had Parts things like that because building rented it and had it dropped off and oh I understand it I was I was just trying to cover up a loophole yeah but you couldn't then rent somebody
else that would be third party rental which language in here already prohibits that which okay fully on board with and my thought is you know rather than just saying it needs to match the color of the principal structure say it needs to be a complimentary color to the principal structure and Earth Tone type color you know so we're not getting a
pink or a just gonna say neon green or who knows what I'd be fine with the complimentary language as far as the lettering and sign what I was picturing is you see the shipping containers that have MK or Hond on I mean not so much advertising or you know
shipping label or anything but the just em blaz obnoxious right coloring on them yep so you were talking about um shim cor there's at least one place that must
have six of them you know kind of using them for shelves and business containers and whatnot if you you know you were talking about splitting it up so maybe it's different for that right but then also there was a a thought I don't know if it was in here
my ears weren't keeping up that EXC think it's covered by screening huh when we talk about how many do you want to be allowed in certain areas I don't do you want this your color thing I don't know why you're concerned about that if you're going to use screening
you don't have according to this you don't have to paint it I think it was optional if you didn't have have screening you don't have to paint it so if you if you don't paint it then you could screen it so I don't know why you're making a issue out of this or that screening costs money and that's an
extra burden to businesses are we Pro business want to impose more government costs on them and I'm not saying Pro or anti well and every regulation comes with the cost but then we have to balance that against the needs of the community of course too so
I'm not trying to make it a pit or bu them by no means there's Nuance in everything I think the original language draft language in your report says just in the rear yards I know we talked about in the CI District do we allow them in the sidey yards as well and I think the
screening situation versus the color complimentary color situation would remain the same whether it's rear side the question is do you want to allow them in the sidey yards in the commercial industrial district rather than just the re here in the sidey yard meaning they
really shouldn't be any further than the front of the building yes if the front of the building's here you should not be closer to the street you know it be in the side going back to the rear the prime example there's one this is um providing they got the space is what
you're saying if they have the space yeah if they don't have the space it can't do it but this is one of the examples they do have storage containers other places in town do and that's why we're discussing it um if you have no
rear yard to speak of or not enough rear yard you ban them outright or do you allow them in a partial side because where is this this is where they've been located I drive past it every day um but it's located the rear it's on the edge here it's kind of out of sight out of
mind if they could be a complimentary color I think that look good he uses them as part of his Daily Business for inventory purposes um but I don't know if he could get them back here any better or any I don't know so do you allow partial
in the back side yard or I'm trying to look at the unique circumstances of our specific businesses I don't think side yard would be too bad not to pick on Tom at all but we go
right next door that's the me if if they're screening involved it doesn't matter does it but that fence looks crooked from here the last I mean I think we're making a big deal out of we got a simple solution here as long as it's screened or painted yeah it doesn't
matter where it really is if you can't see it well side yard no further than the front like uh you know mind over matter or whatever if you're referring to the sidey yard no further than the front are you agreeing with that the side yard considered just behind the
front of the yeah no closer to the road than the front basically in between the front and the rear setback so on the sides of the building so from the front building back you know to the rear would be your sidey yard so in this case is you know if you look at the front and kind of just measure that out with a
straight line across that's what the sidey yard is anything behind that so you know you know there's the rear yard that stuff you know north of that orange line you know so you can see some of those do encroach into the sidey right now technically even La so last meeting
when we were coming up with TR trying to expand the language to allow for this sort of thing um I mean this was kind of the subject properity that we're thinking of when we're trying to not really write the language around this property but to keep in mind keep this
property in mind because otherwise they were out of compliance as it were yeah so it when when I was talking about you know in the in the rear yard last time but I I thought that was what was we were allowing for this I didn't
without the map I just saw driving by this that already looks like it's behind the but with that bulge in the back I wasn't aware of that yeah so you can see how they technically should be moved back I don't know 20 feet or whatever I think there's a third one that might even be in front there those those are portable trailers those are car trailers
yeah so I I don't know I want I think there's three of them there right now and I that's that's showing two and then two trailers yeah okay got trailers there but still yeah I didn't realize the two containers were I I thought the jut out on the side that was the
back of the property yeah when you drive by it looks like it looks like they're well behind structure so here's the question and these properties currently are on C1 too that's where the discussion is these would potentially be the three that you could go to C SE or commercial industrial then you got the storage facilities kind of you know just
you know kitty corner here from stady Hall and stuff make that whole area see commercial industrial do everything in the front and the side or the rear and the side and it solves all the problems everything becomes conforming because right now we have some non-conforming uses everything becomes conforming per the zoning ordinance and then it keeps
them completely out of the commercial industrial district then which could have more you know a restaurant or a you know more Highway industrial or Highway business type you know facilities so so that that's where that whole rezone came up is kind of looking at these couple
properties right here so I can see the rationale behind that yeah and to me the in the commercial industrial having the side of the rear I think makes sense um it's not a you know like I said they're industrial properties they're not out there you know like I said we just can't have them all over the place front yards
we still got a potentially screen and different things but if they do the complimentary colors you know they'd be allowed to put some things there and limit it to three a property also you know prevents somebody from putting like 30 of them out there somewhere so I one of thing we had discussed as
well is um do we this gets deeper into more code changes but branching out having a true Industrial Area versus a commercial industrial if you have something you have your C1 do you introduce something else something for
these properties which are very much more commercial than they are industrial but uh you think about this area and your C1 area you may only want a couple of storage containers in these
areas but in shim cor do you mind if there's up two four five six does makes sense but that you you these uses to me are technically more industrial than commercial as well these in most cities
these would be more in an industrial district or a not really your Highway business district so that's that's where that discussion comes in as far as a new Industrial District I know like the vinm Meer property that is planned for to be true industrial not to allow like a Casey store in there or something like
that um so you know maybe there's a look at shim cor you know Casey's obviously is a commercial business but it's allowed in the commercial industrial maybe that goes to more of a C1 where the rest of shim cor goes to more of a true industrial and then that could
allow for some more but from what I seen uh Long Lake the old Washington scientific is owned by Mor's the car dealer he has a museum there he's got a big parking lot he also does some body work or whatever setup whatever this
deal is he's got a big parking lot for his business but in the back row there must be 10 or 15 containers and that's maybe a different yeah you know the CE whatever you're talking about there I'm just saying for instance there you know it's a maybe a a
way that uh in industrial could put product in there and you know whatever job they're doing and I think in here you definitely don't want multitudes of them no it's Highway that and that's again where I look at then you get down to the South Side
here mayor Lumber being in there in this current CI Casey's is definitely Highway even down here these properties down here it's doing its thing and then even Mar Lumber they found out it sounded like a great deal but well they can't
get forklifts in there right so it's really you know it's it sounds like great storage but everything's handled these properties you wouldn't want storage containers on but you get over to shim cor you can hide them in there this is more industrial parksh looking
now you get obviously Casey's would be that highway but you get into that is area that's certainly industrial he Z that was an industrial park and it turned into what it is turn in whatever
sold um so with the shipping containers that the fire department uses they're not for storage they're they're they're built out as a straining training structure and talking to the chief they're no
immediate plans but there is potential future plans of building a second tier on it since this is about storage containers for storage purposes would anything in here preclude stacking those in the industrial park or well right now
it says no stacking right so it would yeah where where is that on is that on the site there I guess I'm in the very northeast corner yeah just north of the was there two or three they're fully screened and there's three welded together it's a training training they're screened right now that's
allowed as we speak now the height thing that's something we'd have to talk about if they wanted to do that you know they always have the ability if it to apply for a variance potentially too so you know that's typically what you do because if you allow it here you really gotta allow it for everybody right
so I think that would be a situation where you could look at a variance and say that the Practical difficulty is it's a training facility it's Unique to you know it's a unque use and go down that road I didn't know I was wondering if because they're used more as a structure rather than storage if they
would fall under if they would need a separate definition or separate use because in here I thought we were specifically saying that for use for storage not I thought of this after the factu yeah I wasn't even aware that was there to be honest with you is that a
training facility is that fac Works different rooms are built out and this way they can go upward with the search and rescue or whatever I mean he could probably live
without it too but if if it's that beneficial to them far as ladder training while you're at 20 fet now yeah I don't know you know from a building code standpoint if that needs to meet certain building codes for what they're doing in there if they stacked
it you know obviously you got code standpoints because you can't have it tip and over so that might you know we're looking to call this accessory use and meet the accessory structure some of the standards for setbacks in that case they may have to look at almost a building permit possibly I I I don't
know without having that discussion with a billy inspector you know because there welded together and stacking them that the people are going to be up in them using them like that there might be some different requirements I don't know I definitely agree if you're going to stack on that given the unique
circumstances of it as a training ground rather than for business purposes yeah VAR would be the way to go yeah on a stack for that for sure and he didn't have immediate plans but it just it has been discussed before and if you know
now would be the time to if if there's a problem with the language if there was a variance involved would that include the different districts to then or not well Varian is for that specific you know location but that could be in any District depending on what somebody
wanted to ask I guess I don't think we'd be setting precedent yeah that's a unique situation that's a little different than what anyone else is going to use it for anyone else that wants to build a fire training facility yeah we we'll look it up well I was just making reference to a
double stacking I guess that I was just referencing double stack yep there's some commercial industrial I probably want to double stack it too but if if we limit that that's not really for storage that's more for a
train different type of use yep sorry that was a bit of deviation but okay anyway two Deep In The Weeds on that one just Outsider looking at at what shim cor is seems more industrial parkage regardless of what it was set
out to be this seems not like that's say straight industrial park because it does have aesthetic elements to it but definitely industrial parksh whereas the nature of this up here um to your point is more industrial parkage but it's I
would say on the other leaning side of that yeah it's got some commcial aspects to it but could easily fit an industrial has commercial aspects if these businesses were to come in today and ask about this yeah some of this would not be
allowed right but because their Hometown business has been there for a long time yeah I just know we got the storage facilities you know Southwest of there those are non-conforming right now per the current ordinance but if you want the commercial industrial they'd be
conforming so you know the creary building and that property in that location as well seems in the storage north of that so to me it it fixes problems going to that districts it takes away the non-conformities so so you'd look at making these commercial industrial or that that area
and then making everything off the highway down in chimor yeah prob leave uh um um maybe we go with the casc stor as a C1 actually that's truly a C1 use that the rest of
you consider the lumber yard closer to C1 or closer to Industrial it's C1 right now um I would leave it probably at that it's own CI right now yeah that's why I probably just leave that alone too
we just reson those Residential Properties y but i' probably leave the lumber yard as is okay okay that be a separate if we looked at language for that would that be a separate public hearing or the reason would be a separate public hearing if we
wanted to go that route I guess this language that we're you know the text language we might change it you know we might pull out the C1 uh C1 District yeah if we're if we're rezoning those properties we're talking about then the C1 would come out of there and just be
your typical Highway type of District is there an example of a C1 property in town where the where a sidey container would be you know sidey yard but on a corner where the sidey yard is on Frontage to
another a sidey yard uh on a street is not considered a side it's technically considered a front yard so it would not be allowed on the street side sidey yard it could be allowed on the other side if you go to for instance Casey's I guess maybe I'll just try to show you that um
like I said the they would potentially on the right side of that building you know somewhere in the back they would potentially be allowed to put a storage container yeah if they went to C1 and removed it and we left them C put them C1 they would not but on the left side they would not because it's Froning Highway 25 that's considered a front
yard per the zoning ordinance back to n buring here as a famous example let's say their name out loud but nuring nuring nuring nuring my discussions with John when when I looked at this property I looked well it's not
totally in the sidey guard do you don't necessarily have to allow total sidey yard do you say the back 50% of the side yard so rather than allowing say because your front side yard okay go back to R&V your front side
yard starts here yep but instead of that do you say well the back 50% come on it's measurement new measurement tool no I understand that so now you're saying you can be in the back part of
that while restricting the front so you're not having storage containers because you don't want them up in front in people's faces like that okay go to R&B's Building and find the back 50% of the building that's kind of a it's back we side a lot basically it's back too far
so that's where I was going with the front the no further front of that one would be still back further than the other one so that's that first impound lot is equal to the front and then there's two sheds on the side that are
equal to the front maybe I'll try this so by definition because this is really a three-sided lot you got this property line you got this out here then this one rear yard is going to be considered I don't know where it's going to be but something like this at an angle so the back triangle part something like that
would be technically considered the rear yard so where this stuff is back here that could fit into the definition um I think what you're looking at from a side yard 50% would be something like from here because this is technically front yard this is technically front yard so you're kind of
looking at some sort of angle 50% but it's going to really be back here we don't really have a true sidey yard on this lot other than maybe like right along this location you know or down in here well can you can see the center roof line yeah right there so were you
going with the 50% on the south neighbors were you going with that with the building or the lot well I think he's saying 50% of the the side lot you know the sidey yard if it's 100 feet deep or 150 depending on the lot just 50% of that location so it's really I
think that's what we're seeing right yeah or a third or quarter or yeah I just picked 50 but some gradient looks like 50% of that LW would be right in the front of the building yeah right where the line is you don't want storage containers out front by and see that's where my thought is
maybe you instead of saying 50% of the structure you do 50% of the lot but if the house or the building sitting way back you got that does that work see where those where those two little sheds are next to the building right here okay so take your line to the very south of
that right there so would that be like 50% of the lot sure looks like it to me well there again this is a unique lock it's three-sided 50% of lots can be based on kind of an angle if you actually look at the definition it's going to be big because your front yard's going to be down along here your
rear yard's going to be back in this corner but in this case like we well there's some product in there which you live with it or not but one of them has some equipment in that you only use every once a while whether it's a training Jack or a hoist so you kind of want it in your working areas yeah that's just a so to me if you if you
really want to do 50% it' be roughly of the building would be roughly right here and then potentially like this because that's 50% that way 50% this way yeah you know or could you come down here like that you know something like that was Tech pretty close yeah yeah somewhere in that ballparks it's kind of
like said a unique shaped lot normally at four sides is really a three-sided lot so CU technically this is a side this is a side but then you don't have a rear so your rear definition would be like this back you know something like through there your storage area not the
impound lot but the storage lot the old the old original first one yeah that's pretty much in line with your Frontage or your building it is exactly in line this line this line right here nope right here that one yeah that one yeah that's all in one straight line would be and for years people didn't know we had
a lock they don't see when they drive by you have the building on a straight line area and all that line up with everything that's what I was saying but that's that's pretty close to 50% is what he's showing back a little bit maybe but and like I said in a case like this
if you know rather than having an angled thing to do a square like this potentially a variance could be a a factor on a lot like this again to allow something to make sense you versus this strict it's got to be some weird angle so I mean the way this sits you know
having it back like here in these areas that seems to make sense on this property to me because this fits in with this building that's basically your Viewpoint my viewpoint yeah I mean somebody else could think it doesn't but yeah that's what we're discussing I
think yeah so because the way everything is aligned now I don't see anything where it would [Music] be now remember the other the other item we talked about is only allowing it in the side yard in the CI District this is
actually C1 that's where that rezoning thing comes into play again and that's not in your text it's something we discussed after after the we drafted the T I'm open to the CIA and Industrial changes that you guys just discussed earlier so if we're if we're
looking at this in that Viewpoint I suppose probably at least take a check the temperature in the room on if everyone's kind of on board without specifics yet of this being SE because otherwise we're having a different discussion
about yeah so this language if this is gon to stay C1 since I was the one who brought this up in the first place and talk because I wasn't here at that the previous meeting if this flip the CI and it opens up full side that's not what you want here you
don't want storage containers up here here up here up you know up here potentially I don't think you want them they're here similarly if this is switching
CI that's right that think on the spot here a little more again you're yeah there's a rabbit hole there yeah I mean it's I don't know if you can get every lot lot to fit perfectly in what you approve or what
you decide but could rather than a 50% a distance back from the front of the lot or could you go with a set foot behind you know number of feet behind the front of the principal structure like you yeah so say from any
from any structure in that zone you know yeah the FR thing you got to be careful about is the size of a building so if somebody comes in wants to take buy 20 acres and build a million square foot building it's 30 feet too much or is 50 feet you know what I'm saying the size of the
structure May determine where you want it so if you do a set like number versus a percent either way you're getting in percentages and calculations yeah because a bigger building you may make sense to have at a bigger setback than a smaller building
I guess the question is do you want it in the CI District or not you know then these properties here how does that apply that's that's the big question I think for another matter the ones right here you know that you can see them as you drive by but if they were screened
he'd be legal so we're not it's not that far off no it's not that far off exactly I don't know how if you're looking for them you'll find them even even in the best planned cities you'll see them see1 they must be screened
regardless I think that's if we allow them the CI you will allow them more in an onscreen setting as long as they're complimentary colors and in the right locations that's kind of and I guess my
question is is a CI the C1 District I mean that could be that could be like your nice restaurants strip malls I mean for that matter a Target or something like that could go there and do you want storage containers on a structure or business like that I would say no yeah the answer is no I think it's cleaner to
make these CI and then keep it only to CI and so he's so he's going to have to screen these for Ci or he could get by so what would we change this to so I can keep it straight what are you what are you thinking you should do with this property my thought is these would he
Zone the CI which would allow what he's doing there with up to you know whether it's 50% or the entire sidey that you guys can determine that and then uh complimentary colors or they have to be screened so colors or screening yeah that's kind of what it says now if you
want something different that's really you guys's well that's way're that's what it was from the beginning wasn't it yeah that's what we talked about last month yeah yes and sorry I'm maybe muddying Waters because I wasn't here for that conversation I wish I had been it's it's either one or the other I
mean either you paint them or you screen them so what so this screen you could put a fence 10 feet in front so high is that concerned screening or 10 foot in front you'd have arbites or what are you talking about I mean that's that's the language under the screening section
basically a screen wall or fence or Inc or uh planting may be substituted for a screen Waller fence or Incorporated in a screen Waller fence so you could do one or the other or combination a burm would work if you had it high enough with plantings on top I mean there's different things that you're allowed to
do or you can make the doors look like you can almost make the doors look like a fence now ultimately as a city and this that's why I'm saying where is the fence have to be as a city now here you know I think we talked about this a little is you know there's no tax benefit to the city for this now if somebody wanted to
actually store some extra stuff out there and they put up a an accessory building like a a 20 by 40 accessory building that potentially generates more tax base which is ultimately what the city wants so you know my thought is you still I'm not saying you can't allow them but you want to make them so easy
that everyone's going to do it versus building a building that's that's the thing that you kind of gotta weigh in your heads on what you really truly want well that's all it's about anyway yeah well yeah they definitely want to save money by using these
yep and that's where the commercial industrial district it makes sense to allow them to see1 and we talked about the public institutional which would be the city if they wanted to put something out you know at the Public Works building or something I don't know you want to bring
up the other item I look more at shed now okay the thing is the thing is is it's real they're here so we have to deal with them yeah they're there like I said this this one here is pretty close to being already in line
with the requirements so so that 40 or 50 feet we maybe have to do some research on that to see I mean a trailer comes in at 53 feet semi-trailer I don't know if we're allowing the semi-trailer no I'm just
saying these are kind of built on some kind of shipping platform type of thing I don't I don't know if that long but standard size or that's what I don't know yeah so is 50 a standard size or is 40 you know 40 a standard size I was doing some looking up about stand
standard shipping container size 40 foot is about the longest they come in 10 20 and 40 the external width is almost always eight feet and then the external height can get up to 96 or
9 therefore we have the 10 foot thing and that's covers it covers it the idea being you want to Encompass the standard sizes I would say up to 40 feet I don't know if you want to if we wanted to change the eight to say eight and a
half or nine on the width in case one's over a few inches or something it's that's what I mean that's a standard for pretty much everything eight eight foot truck bed is there boxes yeah I know there's Bo trailers that are 8 foot6
though versus eight our tow truck has eight and a half yeah just cuz it can be and otherwise yeah last but there will probably be somebody with a you know a semi-trailer but it just can't be 40 feet longer be you
paint them up too and hide them make you know a tolerance where it would work yeah gives them a few extra inches to play with see that the end of the world there 40 is probably right than according to this there's a 45 do you want to go 45 i i i in some of the other
communities looked at I've never seen it at 40 it's always 40 was the max I would just say keep it at 40 I mean if someone needs to bring in a 45 storage container type like I'm G have a conversation about that and that'll eliminate your 53 foot long
semi-trailers which I mean they can be painted up and look the same they got a garage door on probably look better but um brought to the ground yeah right but that that would keep it from being a 53 foot trailer brought in so I don't even know if they make 40 foot trailers anymore so but that would kind of hinder
that a little bit 40 40 by8 That's 320 square feet too so it's it's a big area I it's a lot of how deep is your shop post 200 you got to get a I wrote it down everybody was asking
me I don't know is it 40 probably it's no well you get a 30 foot truck in there and then the pit hold you think that pit is that a't 10 that's 20 the L part do you no you got you got your
ramps then you got another area there maybe you think 15 that'd be 55 fence you got up the railing up there that's not more 10 feet I think you're railing out where Isa fo it's probably 10t that's 40t
okay I'm just thinking if you do this like you laid a sheet of plywood down there I don't think you should have them putting containers way up 12 10 to 12 so it's the building is so the building like I said the tow truck
is roll back is 30 feet you can get that on the pit so that's 30 feet long and then figure that so yeah so if it's if it's 50 to 55 bet 40 40 to 45 ft Now 46 and number
they usually then I think it wouldn't be 45 no no I mean it was 46 or whatever the even number but I have it written down but couple is you're looking at a couple kept asking me so I wrote down well that have to remember one of
businesses that wants to show it's like remembering hor the only drive5 Lots 65 like by 45 6 that's number I guess that's up to any the number that's lar num I kicked around a couple times but really worry
about new zoning classifications oh that's not world ending but again that's where I said Rabbit Hole I don't know what the square foots are versus the ones up on seven well you got to cover yourself well there's one guy that's putting stuff on
top of three 20,000 four that's what we were talking about before the meeting then he gave the example of one of the Lots no six structure at all yeah so just as an example think it's
written pretty good I think it's Bobble in all of this too y what's to stop him if he wants more storage containers to subdivide connect onto there wouldn't be nothing at that point unless you limited the number now there's some flood plane
back there there though too I don't know where that line is let's assume we're not dealing with flood plan the principle of it add on a bunch so I think you might want to look at an upper limit regardless of lot size well and just so every knows we're
talking about the number of three and in shim cor is that number three too too little or should we allow more I know last month we kind of thought three was kind of the number but usually when we did a when we made up an ordinance if if things came up where things should be
changed and we changed them yeah so couple years for three and all of a sudden you know they needed four or five and maybe it's time to change the ordinance uh so the reason why I brought up because if you're looking at rezoning these to CI and you're allowing three
here because if it's CI it's going to be the same zoning classification as shim cor if you have three here and we go down to shim cor bigger Lots you might have business is that when I have four maybe five and we're saying well shim cor that makes sense to have it you
could have four or five but then you would also have to allow it up on that north side but then you can do that by variance though well I don't know if we want to do a variance allow additional units if we're saying three is the number that's
kind of the number but then sorry yeah then we were talking about do you have a certain number of containers based on square footage of the lck up to a maximum so if you have a bigger lot have more any over three would be a
calculation of your green space lot sizeer something of that made that remember we got a lot coverage requirement that we can't exceed either because these count towards that also I don't know if that'll reply in any of this but some of these Lots got or Lots got a lot of Paving and you know stuff
like that too like the one right across the street that's pretty covered already there ain't much room there in some of those m so that would have to be looked at also so just 1.81 Acres
1.28 Donnie what do you think 2.35 right direction okay you're in the right direction Donnie's gonna move anyway you don't care unless we be nice to put a dragster in one huh what about like something like any lot a ra under you know half an
acre has up to three from a half acre to one acre has up to four and anything above an acre would have up to six yeah those those two lots are acres that's an acre was everything done invol yeah little over a and a quarter 88 for you
oh I see is that yours as well that's Bob's that's Bob's I don't know if that counts we used to have one acre in the and then there was ConEd in the middle of the street about empty 1. Bob's is bigger than some in shim Cor
those two lots when they were put in they were measured from the got of go it's already on the lot like that then we're talking about square footage you go down to sh cor here and coverage is there somewhere that has more than three right now this
is 1.22 right here but is there somewhere that has like five or six right now at this point they do but the the landscaping place they're using them as work work
tables store their equipment on how many is that how recent is that picture this is the 2024 fly over so it's very recent okay so spring God I thought I
saw whole bunch with landscape stuff on top of them yeah I I don't know I don't know it should be restricted to but we do get into the revenue Factor then too so one back there and maybe three is a
number like you said and if they want need more storage they got to build a building I don't know I think right up to the building yeah I think we just limit that limited it to three limit it to three and then
things happen somebody has four right now they're technically grandfathered in I'm just trying to thread you think Tommy I think it's uh under management pardon me three well if you look at that they even
a number if they stack them like they did there artistic Vision there I mean way to got them stacked there is four of them on that one lot there that to the right here is that four of them sitting there oh yeah or what is that I think it
is no set of three that's three and three oh that's three and three got six got six there they have a nice though it doesn't look like that's behind unless it looks nice again that's
like that's where if you talk reone CI on the North side if you allow this then how do you prevent it from up there what's your mechanism because you obviously don't want the same thing up on the North side however it's not true
C1 so you're we in this weird space you limit it this this would be allowed it's already there yeah no nobody sees that he has a hit very nice you do see it you see one you see that looks like he has does have some trees PL Ed back there too I don't know that
was part of his Landscaping if I remember right sorry I'm switching to bird's eye view what kind of bird yeah humming bird hum bird took took me to the wrong one you want to see streets to no I think it
was this one I wanted maybe this will do it come on heyy look at that huh all right it's getting angry so the other one is more of a top down y straight top down we get bird's
eye view okay so yeah I'll go sou a little bit easier oops there look at it from different directions yeah he's got six there's one right there one property is right uh is
up on the top right which one B property that farm the east side is on top y so we're looking at it from the so in the future for the visual for [Music]
future industrial park right got a small one and a large one keep going over another one and there's probably one alongside the building there's another one go along inside the building got to run away already this way yeah no see
the where the equipment is parked on top of the one the very keep going all the way to the right of the building there along the building along the building there here yeah that's where the equipment is on top one whether those are one or two or whatever it's about a foot ahead of the
is that a wall right up in front there off the pavement that kind of screens that what is that on the corner I think that's the and the we shift it here the end of the tank there you go that hard to say
that's the landscaping place right there just one yeah it looks like just one but still but now you can see the other one's a flat bed y instead of a container yeah that's pretty NE a the fun with aerial imagery I'd like to see the front though looking at it
because if that's screened you know outdoor storage is allowed to be screened you know and that's what I'm trying to see was that's you know I got the driveway there obviously all where is that so to the right behind the water tower stem on the corner of that building if you go back to the other corner it looked like they
had a wall or something there I couldn't tell what that was from the other angle yeah looking at it from shim cor Street itself see that little on the end there no go go down to the bring it up that way you got the laser pointer well I need to see down here okay right there
is that like a wall or what is that Z in it's coming closer it it looks like a wall looks like they got that kind of screened is what it looks like but I can't tell what that is or something so if that's like a wall and they're screening it obviously they still have their driveway here but they
could put some sort of gate that would screen that and they're you know they're meeting code basically looks like they're already kind of doing that getting into your situation we we getting in your situation how far back should you go oh
yeah yeah no no closer than the building remember right now if it's screened it's allowed they're allowed yeah kind of should be too you know there was a fence going across there then they put that other stuff behind there I should
talk it would be screened on the water tower side there too right well I don't know that looks like a fence I don't know how tall it is or what that exactly is but there's the fener I don't know how tall it is or what it looks I don't know if it's just chain link or chain link they don't have the SL inent it or
whatever that's a city's fence a City Fence oh I think it's six or eight feet something like that it's chain length there's no op peness to it people out of the water tower space yeah I guess you know if they have screening here and across here is there
an issue with what they're doing you know now some point time they may need a fence back here when the vinm property develops but or not care because do you care if this is if it's back here in the rear yard do you does it need to be screened
you care outdoor storage needs to be screened that's the requirement right now now whether this is all officially screened or not I don't know I'd probably say it's not 100% screen but that's their requirement bad guy that goes out there and tells him to do it no
typically stuff like that unless you have specific complaints it just stays as is until and as you said it's an industrial area you know are people really that worried about what it looks like in there so again looking at the top where the vinar property is if that ever comes to pass would that have to be
screened back there then it technically should be look like it's screen now does it no so that would then too have to be screened it should be now whether this guy would be required to or the new business would put screening up there that probably could be talked about I mean they've got some pine trees it
looks like right there in this property three of them you know you could do a cou pretty good row that would do some pretty good screening through there or mix that in with some sort of fence or the most common one you see is a chain link with those slat slats in it and that does a pretty good job you see
that all over these types of areas I think that's what they got on the property across the street you with all those stuff being stored there no building on it my personal perspective is if industrial fa is industrial who cares if they're
screening it's industrial it depends on if there's a street there or not but if it's industrial who cares Street would be south of the water tower potentially that's where that little
like I was just if we uh if vinkam Myer's land were to develop into industrial you know basically copy shim cor and slam it here shim cor 2.0 do you really care if there's a screen fence here between two industrial
properties it's industrial if somebody builds here and they want to screen it that's their option right what they want to do or even if you have shim cor here and they have you know storage containers sitting on the side it's an industrial Park Road if you're going down an
Industrial Park Road to see pretty things you're in the wrong neighborhood there you go good point it's like walking into McDonald's and de demanding hell food well you made a big mistake just walking in McDonald's for hell food to start with slip on the grease from
run up to theine run you ever see the grease yes I have it's so gross Flor is full of grease from walking to the kitchen to the people waiting for their stuff outside God no I am not pushing my viewpoint by any stretch of the
imagination it's just just trying to be comical pretty industrial parks unless they're a Medical Park or a tech Park but if it's a generic I mean a pretty industrial park that's just an odd concept to me now it shouldn't be trashy now you don't swing the pendulum the
opposite direction just freefor all but yeah and in the case of the only thing that needs to be from industrial is outdoor storage which is probably what this property consists of um if it's just rear yard you know like this place
you wouldn't need to screen this to a property over here that's industrial so techn if it's residential it does need to be screen but this is obviously residential I guess I was looking at that so farm that was going to come in there would that
be something that would be then that adds some different uses to it so you know like the was like a beer garden Brewery thing or whatever they were talking about greenh hous there it's Industrial in nature but Park it's anything yeah it was kind of a mixed use
situation where they had you know people could go there you know a lot of these breweries you know these things that are being built all over there in industrial areas in most cases because they brew their beer on site which is an industrial use so I was I was in the cities I went I
think it was 56 Brewery in Minneapolis a couple weekends ago I had trouble finding the place because it it looked like any old industrial building it wasn't nothing stood out nothing like that actually my nephew got married in Chicago and that's where the pl the
party took place like gut adult building and right in the industrial park it's becoming more and more common yeah and popular well I guess the question is what do you want to do are we good at three do we want to add more and
then keep the sidey yards at 50% those are kind of the questions if we're ready to draft text and bring it to a public hearing I guess we can set that for next month I don't think if they go you know past the frontage of the building I
don't I think that could be just a line right there where whether it's 50% of the middle of the lot or not I don't know where why that should make a difference L they don't expose it further than the front Frontage of the building it's still would be in side anywhere in the
side still would be in line with the building and it could go you know whichever direction that is north south east or west long as it's parallel with the frontage of the building it I don't know you know then it could be screen from that point on if they if they didn't want to paint it or
whatever I mean that would solve things for you too right so in that case you could have lumber yard could have storage containers potentially right up right up
now one thing has to be looked at is I don't believe that meets the setbacks are you talking about in their parking lot no storage containers I'm I'm trying to think of other properties yeah so in the lumber I also hate unintended consequences of things so in the lumber yard though because this does not meet
front yard setbacks it would actually be further back so it have to meet the front setback okay which I believe is 30 feet if I remember right the other example I will bring in that's a C1 I mean depending if we rezone or not this is all C1 right here so if we talking side guards
allowing I again it's a mixed conversation of course where would you allow storage sheds on this property or storage containers or storage sheds but what if any storage containers would you want here I don't think there would be should
be allowed there but I mean that that's C1 yeah C1 would have up to three these are actually non-conforming in the C1 District it really should be commercial industrial then it would be conforming so if that want the commercial industrial you could allow
them just like shim Cor in long term though it was expected that this would go to a higher density residential which I don't know if that's realistic and probably should be looked at to be reg guided yeah well that's that's pretty
far into the future if it would be right exactly and there's there's still two more buildings that could be built on that site based on their approved site plan so this is from our 2040 comp plan yeah this would be the area right there high density high density residential is
the BR that is commercial industrial right there yep and this is C1 the creary C1 up here in this area this property was I think there's a house there now but that could be redeveloped as well that could stay C1 could go to commercial industrial to match stuff
around it there's some houses right in this little location well that that whole Brown area is houses in it right here yeah that's the storage sheds storage sheds and all them storage sheds yeah aler
just that seven Street there's a small little apartment building right there in this corner which is right behind no I think we did that because of the residential area that was there that way we we zoned it that yeah because there's a there's a small apartment right here in this little piece right
there so they thought this could be ruid long term and we had to find more spots in the plan for high density if you remember right for the mech Council to meet their requirements so this was one spot that was looked at some stuff was done over here that was looked
at well I don't think that's going to go away either they're even pushing higher density no I mean that residential area isn't going to go away either right here yeah oh that's going to stay on Seventh Street there along seventh up here
Seventh Street yeah yeah that little them houses yeah that's not going to go away yeah there's a house here that could be redeveloped then there's a little block of houses single family homes right there this one here could potentially redevelop it's a fairly large parcel with one house that's
pretty much there all right fun little we better get back right here is where you can put two more of the building we get back to this I'm getting my stomach's kind of like I mean they're still planning building like I don't know what to do to be residential yeah not to horrifically muddy the waters on everything but
[Music] that's cool so we're really concerned about whether or not we want to rezone those two little areas there and right here because of what we're doing huh yeah these three parcels and then this area I know I a got to do that did you say no to these right here
you you would want you want to keep them C1 and not CI CI is commercial industrial this this is I think C1 yep or is that commercial industrial I can't remember it's C I'll bring that back there it is that
one is commercial right there yeah so they're all C1 right now it' have to be rezoned to commercial industrial then that's the creary site right there which is downtown commercial which could be Zone something different as well there isn't any allowed in downtown
commercial area nope no no storage containers in C2 what about public institutional allowing them in there that would be the blue areas School City Hall Parks I never put them in a park but a school wanted one back there for
some reason a lot of schools use them for like football stuff you know theall they use them for like athletic storage yeah more often than not when you see them in schools or by schools that's where you would rather have a small shed there versus a storage container lots of
thoughts what is the will of the Planning Commission table it there's no action the table tonight there's nothing the table just discussion just what direction do you want to see things go we talked about a lot
um three let's go with three is is three the number I think three is the number three is the number anybody who has more than three today is build a sh is grandfathered in if you need more than what you have today you you should build a shed realistically if you have five and all
of a sudden you are like I need to bring in two more well no build a shed and get rid of them figure it out but like Les says if vinc Myers comes in and they have 10 12 acre lots bigger industrial buildings we can relook at the code at that point yeah or maybe that's a true
industrial district where we can allow more than three right exactly but as it it's today I thing three is ideal it encompasses you know what we're looking
at today and maybe even relative near future too and like I said if all of the sudden some of those other ones are looking at or somebody's looking at four or five or adding on to what they currently have then you say you
know what no it's it's a shed so technically in a in a downtown area the post office would not be able to have even a small one technically no which don't hurt when you're driving down the alley you're looking this way
instead of looking that way look that way yeah this not bothering me we're trying to write something up another I could care if you had 40 foot pick out a whole bunch of
stuff yeah an Institutional building but then again why would you have to borrow to Amazon again they can buy whatever you know get to it was is good um public institutional do you want to allow those in public
institutional places think so I don't can public institutional I mean it's they need something to get what they want anyway yeah they can build a shed and jack it up and sell it when they don't want
it building garage if we do a 50% or in the rear 50 % of the lot then can we also just reference that it at no farther forward than the front of the structure if we're talking somewhere where the structure is so far back you
can do that language rear 50% but no no farther forward than the that's a good way to put it can be done it's up to you guys if that's what you want I don't know where to if they put up screening then they
can have it to that front building line or front yard line well we'd have to potentially put the wording in there I mean right now if they had them matching complimentary colors they don't need the screen I'm fine with the 50% line it's just there's going to be like R&V where
the structur is almost all the way back to the yeah kind of complicates it Tom for putting this building where it is I didn't that's how he found it I know
why bless you jeez holy Bucket look I I think you got the flavor of it John so you want to work on that 50% and then no further forward than the front building planning M see what you can
come up with y That's 50% of the lot you're talking right yeah 50% of the lot I think so I mean otherwise like we discussed before the structure can be all over the place so 50% of structure can some places it's
can be a tiny area and I don't know I don't think there was any push back to complimentary or I think those I think those are the main items that we had discussion on um yeah that was it
y the big ones all right I can call for the public hearing or get the public hearing notice out I should say bring that back in uh September I guess and see who shows up from the public would you like me to do special
invitation to businesses that have containers I mean sure sure probably probably would be beneficial I mean whether anybody shows up or not but at least it's out there they will that's okay get their
input yeah you want to shy away from that hence the purpose of a public hearing okay if you don't invite then you get the complaint that I was never invited blah blah blah blah blah do I know I deal with that a lot complaints
never you good with that now 4 A yeah I think we're good with that 4B Dan litz and Ryan kusky y Dan litz he lives up in Fieldstone and he's on the HOA board he's expressed interest in being on the Planning Commission and then Ryan
kusky who's also on our Park board has expressed interest in being on the Planning Commission as well to fine citizens by my measure I can't remember if I was interview to get on here the city
ccil was it Eda Eda maybe it was par somewhere I was interviewed I was too and I can't remember commission I was interviewed for the planet Commission on my on my renewal renewal
date yeah Les and I both got interviewed on that few years ago when Maggie was here I was say I think mine was with Patty and with Maggie not that it's trying to muddy the water gonna say do you want to be on the interview committee now that's what I'm
hearing I hate that so did uh city council interview them or did Planning Commission interview and then I think I had one Council and one maybe it was just Council and
Magie when it was it was it was City Ministry I say it would have been similar to like Nikki it would be like Nikki right so was it full board or was it just a couple people just a couple people okay yeah it was just one and then
Magie okay so I think say I was well Les was up for his 50th renewal and and me were both on the same and it was the one before you and it was full council at a council meeting oh really or like a
special and I got hammered but good I got asked me 100 questions at least oh you're known quantity so I would too all just sure you
did however yes addition to the I got to figure out what all your guys' terms are too anyway so no don't get paid much that's a nobody's nobody's jumping at the bit for this whole meeting no one's
jumping at the doors trying to take our spots City's getting their value worth out of you guys tonight anything else on 4B five next meeting September 3rd Checkmate on the commissioner report I see there's a sign sitting by
the crey there is a four sale sign he's engaged a realtor for that uh I've agreed that if there are any questions about about use of the property zoning things like that I will happily field them to expedite that Pro process we've
had inquiries on it some I've had to plotly tell them it's not a proper use for that District others gave them the details sent them links to C1 or C2 even C1 for possible reone on that that's it's on that edge of the C 2
C1 so depending on what they're pitching Let It Go on that play you can play it one way other but I've had probably four five six phone calls not bad would that involve demolition or
not um not necessarily I guess if somebody wants to throw money at restoring the building and bringing it to Cod you had if you had people interested they didn't indicate whe what they would be doing right so uh an interested party could restore that if they wanted to put the
money into it uh pretty big restoration projects it certainly is I personally feel it would be cheaper to plow under and redo but if somebody really wants to do the restoration portion of it I it's their
money think you could restore take the saw and cut out the pramy sign that on thing huh aor yeah put that up front just keep keep the one little
piece on a monument so we did get that property for a dollar once and nobody could decide what they wanted to do with it should have kept it well they had to do something with within five years nothing was g in five
[Music] years something like that I don't remember back terms but G what should we do uh let's see what should we have restaurant anything else on number six number seven number
n I'll second and just discussion motion made second any discussion on fav say I I show hands I should have started a disc I should have started a discussion have M on it