[Music] Heat. Heat. [Music]
[Music] question. Thumbs up.
is in the report. says 2750. Plus one is the minimum. They can go higher, >> but it limit No, no, no. If they go plus one choose measure, only.
>> Well, the max going All right. Oh. All right, I think we're ready to get rolling. >> Okay, good morning and welcome to part two of the September meeting of the design review board. Um, thank you very
much for your patience um, in coming back and we will work hard to get um, be respectful of your time and thank you to the members of the board and to staff for coming back a second time this month. Um, so we have some housekeeping,
some technical issues today. Um, but Relio will explain. >> Okay. So um the chambers we will not have the ability to display presentations um over the screens today in city hall. Um so if you are online
and you would like to see the PowerPoint presentations um that are available, you can view those from the city's online agenda um where you can view um everything that's on the design review board agenda today which are two items and the PowerPoint
presentations. You can get the agenda by going to www.mmiam beachfl.gov city-hallity-clerk/meings dash and d-ash-aggendas. And when you get to that page, you can click design review board special
meeting uh September 19, 2025 at 9:00 am. And you can view the HTML agenda, and that will allow you to view the all of the all of the plans, all of the application documents, and the presentations that typically would have been shown today at at city hall. Um so
if uh so that's that's the way you can follow along with us. We have printed copies here in the chambers of of those presentations. Um, so with that, um, we can go ahead and get started. I'm going to read, um,
the, uh, city attorney's, uh, intro, uh, on their behalf today. Um, so, if you are appearing on behalf of a business, a corporation, or another person, you need to register as a lobbyist with the city clerk's office. If you haven't registered yet, you should register
before you speak to the board. You don't have to register as a lobbyist if you're speaking only on behalf of yourself and not on any other party. Or if you're testifying as an expert witness providing only scientific, technical, or other specialized information or testimony in this public meeting, or if
you're appearing as a representative of a neighborhood association without any compensation or reimbursement for your appearance to express support of or opposition to any item. Expert witnesses and representatives of neighborhood associations shall prior to appearing
disclose in writing to the city clerk their name, address, and the principal on whose behalf they are communicating. If you are an architect, attorney, or employee representing an applicant or an objector, you must register as a lobbyist. These rules apply whether you
are appearing in favor of or against an item encouraging or arguing against its passage, defeat, modification, or continuence. Um, if you would like to uh and >> sorry, go ahead.
>> This Sorry, this is this is Nick Colergis from the city attorney's office. I I can swear everybody in at this time if you're going to be testifying today, please raise your right hands. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you'll give in this proceeding is the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth? >> I do. I do. Thank you. >> All right. And oh, and let me announce if you're following on TV and you'd like to participate virtually, I'm going to read the the Zoom link and the phone number that you can call to participate
in the meeting. So the Zoom link is https colon/miami beachflv zoom zoom m us/j/82273941924 um on a phone number in the US you can
dial 1317158592 or uh toll-free number 88846 754499 and enter the webinar ID which is 82273941924. Um and you can participate online via Zoom when we open the public hearing for
each item. Um so with that um I can take attendance. Um so we have um five members present. Um and I'll just uh go through a roll call just for the record. Uh, Miss Buddha Gavoli
>> here, >> Mr. Defenderfer is absent, Miss Skiller Nelson >> here, >> uh, Mr. Lester >> here, >> Miss Leuen >> here, >> Mr. Meshber >> here, >> and Mr. P is absent. Um, and so with that, Madam Chair, if
you'd like, we can >> proceed to the first item, >> the new application, DRB25-113 409 East San Marino Drive. >> This application has been filed requesting the DRB approval for the construction of a new two-story residence, including one or more
waiverss to replace an existing residence. Okay. So, this um this is an application for a single family home. It is in the RS3 zoning district. Has a lot size of 12,855 ft. So, it exceeds the the minimum lot
size required for this district. Um the applicant um is proposing a home that complies with um all of the zoning regulations. However, they are seeking a waiver for an additional 3 ft of height. So the height limit um in this district
um as of right is 24 feet. The applicant is seeking a waiver to be able to develop the home at 27 feet. Um this is um as as you may be aware recently the code was amended so that increase the the extra 3 ft that used to be treated as a variance are now treated as a
design waiver so that anyone seeking extra height for the home has to come before the design review board um um for uh for design review approval. Um so this home um is being designed in a contemporary style. Um it is a large
lot. It is um um um has complies with all the setback requirements. Um the extra height um given the given the size of the lot should not provide any create any negative impacts for the neighbors. Um we don't think that it's going to create an overbearing uh sense for the
for the adjacent properties. the property does have significant landscaping along the perimeter uh to help uh protect um the neighbors from any from any potential impacts. Um so staff is supportive of the granting of the waiver. Um from an architectural
perspective, the home is as I said it was designed in a contemporary architectural style um highlighted by curved projecting eaves and floor slabs on the front and rear elevations. The home is cl is clad in a travertine stone on its main elevations um and has expansive glazing along the second floor
and the front elevation which contrasts with the more uh brutal ground floor finish. Um and both on both floors of the of the rear elevation. Um the footprint of the home tapers outward because it is a it is sort of an irregular lot uh from the rear uh tapers
outwards toward the rear um following the side property lines. Um there's also a central courtyard um that breaks up the interior of the massing. Um so staff does recommend uh that the application be approved subject to the conditions in the attached draft order and uh we can
turn it over to the applicant. >> Good morning. Matt Amster with Burke Albert Fernandez Larkin and Tapenz offices at 200 South Biscane Boulevard in Miami. Here today representing 409 East San Marino Drive LLC. Uh, and with
us, uh, the owners are on Zoom, uh, David and Elana. Uh, David was here last week in person and unfortunately we were right at the end and couldn't be heard. Um, um, but while they couldn't be here in person, they are um, monitoring on
Zoom uh, with me today. Um, I have Cody Tamman and Dane Tamman, our architects, and Matt Lewis, landscape architect. Um, I have passed out because we uh have reached out to our nearby neighbors and so we have one signed letter of support
uh from the neighbor to the north. And uh with that again, if you want to follow along in your um hard copy that you have in front of you, go ahead Cody. Good morning. Cody Thamman, Thamman Architecture and Design, 2414 Coral Way, Miami, Florida. Uh we really wanted to
look at this home and have a lot of emphasis on the northern view to the open bay. Uh with being the pieshaped blot, we wanted to kind of take advantage of that that north bay view. So you'll see uh when I present the you'll see some of the interesting things we did in order to achieve that. Currently there's an existing two-story
home that is on the lot. The grade is actually up pretty high. So our grading that we're proposing for the site is going to be at a similar location that it is now. And the size of that home, that two-story home with the hip roof is is already pretty large. Um, you can see
that there in the aerial images that we have. There's also significant amount of dense landscaping on either side of the house. Both of those those perimeter landscaping are on the adjacent properties. There's almost no landscaping on the lot now. So, all of the landscaping that we're going to be
doing will be on our lot and adding quite a bit of landscaping to our lot in addition to the adjacent properties as well. You can see there you can see that image from the aerial all that landscaping down both sides. We have the existing survey here where you can see the
footprint of the existing home. So there are >> you know just because of the if you could it would be helpful for us to follow along if you could tell us what page as you go from one to the other or have Matt as your wife. >> Yep. So on page six, we have the overlay
of the survey with the existing home. And in red, we've kind of shown the non-conforming to the side setbacks. There's also an existing cabana structure, which is non-conforming and really pushed to the to the east side in the rear yard. So we would be demolishing the existing home and
demolishing that obtrusive structure there at the rear yard. And then if you go to page seven, you can see our site plan obviously compliant with all the front, rear, and side setbacks. So our side setbacks will be getting larger. Um, also the massing
of the home itself has been more centralized on the lot. Uh, we do have the one-story garage, which is the smaller element, goes closer to the street, but you can see we have a dimension about 76 ft from the street to the second floor volume. So the main mass of the home is really centralized
on that lot. as well as having that big open rear yard space. You can also start to see how we've carved into the home a little bit with courtyards and landscape that start to integrate into the structure. On page eight, we have the context
elevation of the existing homes as well as a conceptual rendering. Um, so you can see how that home fits very well into the context of the neighborhood. tried to show that really dense landscaping as accurately we as we possibly could just to show that that home fits well within the context and
and works in the area that it's proposed on page nine. Sorry the uh page numbers are a little bit obscured by the by the binding there, but you can see on page nine we have the context renderings of the existing home versus the proposed home below that. So you can kind of see
how that fits in. We have quite a bit of dense landscaping at the front. So the we do want it to feel like a very private nice home. So there will be quite a bit of landscape at the front. We have Matt Lewis here, our landscape architect, can speak to that a little bit more.
On page 10, we have the existing tree survey, and you can see all those trees that are on the adjacent lots. And then when you flip to the next page, we still have all those trees kept on both sides and then all the dense landscaping that will be added to our
lot as well as how we have the courtyards at the south and at the rear of the home and at the entry that kind of peel into the house and break down that massing. On page 12, we again have that that context rendering and we can quickly flip to page 13.
So this is the rear view of the home. We are requesting the three-foot height waiver, but what we've done is to really slim out the architecture and make it feel lighter. We've projected these eaves at a lower elevation from the maximum. And then we have the the primary bedroom is actually at a a 45°
angle that floats and gets really captures that north view. And we like that eve look because it it adds a lot of movement depth to the architecture as well as thins it out. And then the natural curvature that's created by that that angle I think creates a really exciting form and a little bit
reminiscent of the wave for for the owner's house on the water. You can also see in that image how those courtyards start to puncture and grow into the building itself. On page 14, you can see a little bit more of the materiality. We have the the
warm travertine that acts as the base for the home. uh really beautiful material and those walls are actually going to be curved in some locations. So it really softens the architecture a lot a lot more inviting. Uh the materiality we have the the limebased plaster which is an off-white more textured material.
So the material pallet itself is a very muted sophisticated warm elegant tone that really fits into the landscape. And we do have all those materials there in front of you on the floor if you can see them. On page 15, we have the front rendering.
So, you can see how we have that garage volume. That's that lower slung one-story volume that pushes out to the street. And then the second floor of that is is significantly set back. Uh, a lot of of the travertine is on that front elevation. And we've actually stripped a lot of the landscape from the
front out of this rendering just so you can see the house. But the intent is that that will be very densely landscaped. And on page 16, we have another shot just so you can see up the the drive corridor, uh, the family's entrance to the home through the front door. And how we kind of have those carves and that
play of the eaves that kind of swing over and create these courtyard elements into the home. And on page 17, we have our material palette. So we have the the line base plaster just to warm that up so it's not just a stark white stucco. Uh we have a
dark uh gray color for the metal windows which I find works with the material palette quite nice as well as the the travertine and then we have the subtle touches of wood at the ceilings uh which is a metal product. It it is looks the best one
that I found but it warm warms up the home quite a bit. We are proposing one slight change from what the original DRB submission was and that's simply just at the front vehicular gate. Originally, we had that flush all along the front wall, which was a little bit limiting in the height.
Uh, so we'd like to just push the vehicular gate back into the property a little bit so we can add a little more height, a little more security for their children. And we're looking to do that in the same wood that is is in the home. And that completes our presentation. If you have any questions,
>> thank you very much. >> Just if I could, a few more points. Um, this home, uh, as Cody was saying, grade today is already up pretty high. Um, it is an older home, so as a new home, we do need to address freeboard, and we are
at, uh, 3 ft of freeboard. Uh, so rather I think it's what instead of nine is a base flat, so we're at 12. >> Um, however, this house would be much taller if it had an understory, uh, which we decided the owners did not want. So that helps to keep the home
again in context with the neighborhood and in addition there's no roof deck at all. No rooftop access. Uh again that helps to you know maintain the height. So from that perspective with these great landscape buffers you know we feel we have a resilient home that isn't overly tall that's in context with the
neighbors has you know uh good privacy for everyone. In fact we're essentially doubling the landscaping. It's very weird to have a property that doesn't have much if if any landscaping today. Uh so it's uh and with 10-ft setbacks,
great opportunity for uh Matt Lewis to uh to put in great landscaping to to help this owner and uh the adjacent owners. So from from that, we agree with all of staff's conditions and we respectfully request approval of design and the height waiver.
>> Thank you very much. Um, are there any other members of the public wishing to speak? Anyone here? >> If you're on Zoom, please raise your hand. If you'd like to speak, I see no hands raised on Zoom. >> Okay, great. I'm now going to close the public portion and open it up to the
board for discussion. Who would like to start? Thoughts? Do you want to start? >> Sure. I mean overall the design looks beautiful to me and I like the heaviest landscape and because most of the properties some existing properties don't have a um
heaviest use of the foliage. So >> right >> I definitely applaud the use of all the landscape and double on that. So, thank you. N did a great job. >> Good job. Yeah. >> Um, just a couple one question. On page
16, you show the driveway has pavers that appear to be light in color. So, on page 17, it shows a different type of paver. >> Uh, is that in the back? The permeable pavers that you show on page 17. So, if
you see on the site plan where we show the overflow parking location, it's simply a little bit of pvious. We're going to have the the they will be pvious pavers, but they won't have the turf block look. So, it's simply so that the owner can park an additional car or
just helping with the pull out from the side facing garage because it is with the pies-shaped lot, it is pretty tight there at the front. Um, so on the site plan you can see there's a small portion which is significantly set back where we do are proposing some reinforced turf block with some grass to infill and we
wanted one the owners to be able to use that space to park and pull out but at the same time I still like the look of it being not just monolithic pavers. I like it to still feel like landscape and and lush. >> Okay. So those um permeable pavers are
in the overflow >> correct. >> Okay. >> Mhm. Um, and then, >> oh wait, so because that's a question, too. So the image I guess this one, so this is the papers for the whole entire
driveway, correct? Overflow. And that's what's depicted. >> That's this. >> No, that would be the more per the permeable paver. And I think u Matt, you have some additional pictures that would be. >> So there's going to be two different pavers, >> correct, but they'll be in a very similar look, similar vein. It'll
essentially be more of a spacing between them to put reinforced grass to have landscape grow through them. >> I see. And that just didn't necessarily translate into the rendering. >> Uh it might at the back. It just might be hard to see. Let me see if >> Where is that main paper shown? I'm
sorry. >> U main paper. Do we have an image of our main pages? Is this in our presentation? DB submission. >> We do have in the original DRB submission, we have the two separate papers on the landscape plans. Oh,
>> okay. >> So, that's maybe further. >> Yeah, these two. Yeah, I can show you those. >> Okay. And then, uh, Roelio, just one one note. Ah, I see. What page is that? >> Um, this is >> No, over here.
>> No, but this is not in the hand. Sorry. >> Okay. >> For printing purposes, we decided not to reprint everything. Uh-huh. Okay. >> So, this is the main PA. Here's the overflow overflow parking PA. >> Okay.
>> Thank you. Could I similarly ask um in the backyard? But right that that fronts the pool, is is that just turf or is that the pavers as well >> between the pool and the in the walkways? That will be actual lawn. >> That Okay. >> Yeah, that'll be the kids play area. Yeah.
>> Is that real grass or is that >> Yeah, that's the intent is to have real grass. Yes. >> Wow. Yeah, that's that's very unique with right budding up against the pool. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Um Yeah, I Myers, sorry, were you finished or I meant to >> Yeah. No, I just wanted to add um I
don't know if he knows, but the original owner of this current house um Carlos Gil and his family, he built it for his family and his three sons. And one of the sons ended up being a uh land use attorney. >> Yes. He was at our
>> worked with all of you. >> Yes. >> So it's coming around. >> I know. I I spoke to him about this. >> Fond memories. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. I mean the pavers was my question and then the the uh pool lawn.
Um but it's it's a beautiful project. Um, I I love how it sits within the land and it really it really works well with the landscaping. Um, so yes, I'm in support. >> Thank you. >> Adam, do you have any comments? >> Uh, no. I I agree. I think it's very
nice and I'm for it. I had one question for staff. Would would your opinion change if the lot size was smaller? >> Like Yes. likely if if um >> the lot size were the minimum allowed in this district um and there were smaller
setbacks um we our opinion may change. We may we may maybe we would be supportive of the waiver, but we would ask them for more setbacks at the upper level or something something to that effect. Uh but I think given the scale of this lot, it's it works well >> um with with the proposed height. >> I agree and thanks for having the
neighbors uh signature. I think that's helpful. Thank you. >> Okay. Um thank you. Well, I agree. I think that this is lovely. You did a good very thoughtful job relating to the site and the demands of the owners and all of that. So, thank you. I also
really I love the tones and the trapine. It's very refreshing. Um I had a suggestion that I wanted to throw out there and you know if any other fellow board members wanted to weigh in. Um and it actually had to do with so I think one of the things that is so beautiful
about this design is this is this flow. And that which you know just seems so appropriate for a waterfront home. Um and I I I like that you had said that some of the the corners I'm assuming that that's in the back that those are going to be the curved windows as opposed to did you say that some of the
windows would be curved? >> The window the windows won't be curved. We have one small portion of railing that's curved but yeah not the windows cuz that's >> Yeah, that's Pis anyway. Um, so but I I think it was in the original maybe plans
that you submitted and and it could have also been a rendering translation issue, but if you look if you look at this this page >> so I noted in your materials that
it's hard to >> it's page 18. >> Page 18. Um, on page 18, there were more renderings like this. The the aluminum finish is much much lighter. And I think there were some other render. Again, I'm not sure if it
was intentional. That was actually going to be one of my questions the other day of is it the dark or is it the light? I see here that you've made said this is my suggestion was going to be that I actually liked the lighter color. The reason why was that I feel like the dark
the contrast interrupts that flow. >> Okay. >> And so I had just wanted to throw it out there es especially in the rear which is not depicted here. >> Um I just wanted to sort of throw that out there to make a suggestion that I think as a way I want to see more
horizontal flow movement as opposed to static vertical. Right. Um and so that that was just going to be my question. And you feel the darker feels a bit more stark and makes it pop a little bit more. >> Well, and I think it it interrupts it. >> You know, it it Yeah, I think that the
darker just sort of interrupts that movement and just, you know, it's not >> I I wasn't sure if the homeowners had a preference. >> Donors definitely have a preference and we went back and forth with a lot of different renderings to get the color correct. It's a very challenging thing to do, get the exact sun hitting the
metal, having it actually look like it's going to look. So, we explored that quite a bit. I would be open to working with staff and exploring that a bit more. >> I mean, it's not it's not something that, you know, I would hold off the project with. And again, at the end of the day, this is a beautifully designed,
>> you know, it's it's not >> and if again, if the homeowners have a very strong preference, I just wanted to convey from my professional opinion that if the intent of the project, if the intent of the design is to really showcase the flow and I think that the
horizontal lines are more interesting than the vertical. Okay. So, that was just >> a professional opinion. Yeah, we'll speak with the owners and maybe >> something to think about. I don't know if if anybody else has any other thoughts, but I just thought that would be a nice addition >> about the the metal finish that's next
to the glass. >> All the >> I mean, the actual sample is a little more on this softer champagne than than the rendering, which is good. And >> and it varies very much by the light how it hits. If it's in shadow, it looks darker. If the sun's directly on it, it looks a lot lighter. >> Which one is it? I thought Sarah, you
were going to talk about like the edge of the the edge of the overhang starting to soften soften edges and corners a little bit more for the house. Yeah. >> Oh, it's Yeah. I mean, again, I would I would go with the like I said, I like
the flow and anything that's sort of strictly vertical that's interrupting that. You know, I know that it's hard it's so much easier to contrast colors than it is to sort of match them. So, and I do think it is interesting to have the different because you want, you know, the the quality of the material,
the travertine is so much different than aluminum. >> This also very dark as well, >> right? And even the one below which is going to be darker too because of the shadow. Um, anyway, that that was just my what is your intent? What's your story? We we do get a lot of projects
that you don't really understand what the architect is saying from them but this one definitely has a point of view and changing that detail a little I think we'll be able to express your point of view a little bit more strongly but again we can get samples we can present them
to staff and I think >> yeah I mean it's something you know um the other question I had oh let me you'd mentioned that would the the wood It's that the SIBO. That's the wood product. Yeah.
>> Okay. That was just And that's going to be under the eaves. Is that wood or aluminum? >> It's an aluminum with the faux finish that actually has the texture to it. >> It's not. It's a very intense fabrication process. It comes from Japan and it's it's the best that I've seen.
We've used it a few times. It's beautiful. >> Okay. >> It's really for a a maintenance thing. You know, the wood down here tends to get crushed. So, a lot of times we will put them on sophets so they're not getting direct sun and just not having to come and sand and treat the wood for the owner is often helpful.
>> Yeah. Um, I also had a question that was more regarding the height waiver. Um, I do appreciate the this the elevations that you added, you know, with the if there was a roof deck, if there was an understory. Um, I think that that's
helpful. Um, is there any is there any hardship related with this waiver or is it just sort of personal preference? You wanted more height interior interior. >> When you talk about hardship that's typically and used for variances. So
this is a a design waiver and so that's where you know the entire thought process of you know your relation to your neighbors the geometry of the lot uh you know where your first story second story and your setbacks are. Um, but I think the beautiful thing that uh
Cody has designed here is those lower eaves, right? The the lower eaves themselves are helping to be below the actual rooftop so that it uh helps to uh from a design perspective, right? Minimize the scale and massing of the home all by itself. And then you have
the additional elements of while we're using some freeboard for resiliency, we're not using the maximum freeboard. Uh we're not going up much higher than the existing grade of the property. And then we don't have any habitable roof deck, right? So there's no additional uh you know the elevator bulkhead and
railings and planters and all those things that would then add to the height of the home. Uh we're we're you know deciding purposely not to do that. And then on top of that, you know, we have well on the sides of that we have extensive landscaping. It's really
wonderful that these neighbors have very tall, you know, buffers already. Uh so having that as a as a again a a good context for us to place this in that's where I think that collectively from a
design perspective because hardship is a variance standard. We're not asking for a variance and yet some of the same type of things you know the nonp parallel lot lines right wedge shaped properties have some you know issues. We didn't do a home that is the same length on either side of the properties because we're trying to play with where to put the
garage, you know, um on all these cutouts too, I think are really beautiful for, you know, making this again a more uh compatible home. When you talk about the homes adjacent to it, I think the two to the north are much
lower, even though the one immediately to the north, which is 421, seems to be a newer home, uh, but much lower. How does this compare your proposed height of 27 ft high compared to the home uh to
the south, which is 421? Um, San Marino, >> believe we have that elevation on page 8 and it does look like it's nearly 10 ft taller. >> Um, so this proposed elevation would be
10 ft taller than the home on 421. >> Oh, I'm sorry. To 421 to the home to the north of us? >> Yes. >> Oh, I'm sorry. That is >> ft. the the larger home on the north is about three we're about three feet taller than that because that as >> three feet taller than that >> to your point that's a newer home
>> okay which is a new home yeah cuz I remember it under construction and then the two to the south um which is 409 and 405 are way lower is the height of the ceilings on first floor and second floor of the
>> 12 ft and 11 ft 12 ft for the first 11 for the second >> okay so if you were to be at the same height, you would not at at 27, you would be at the same height as the house to the north, which is 421, and you
still would have nice ceiling heights on both floors. >> You're saying if we were to drop and not go to freeboard plus three? >> No. If you instead of 20 instead of 27, >> we went to 24. >> You went to 24, which is the maximum
flat roof height. >> Mhm. You wouldn't need the variance. >> You would still the waiver, I'm sorry. And you would still have sufficient ceiling height on both the first floor and second floor because you currently have 11 and 12. >> Correct. Yeah, we would be losing a
significant amount of ceiling height by doing that. >> Yeah. But you would be comparable to the other home. This is a very small area >> in um San Marino. >> And we have reached out to these neighbor. We spoke directly with the neighbor to the north which is the newer home and they were supportive of our
waiver and that's who we have the the letter of support from today. So they are they are in agreement with our proposed height. >> I just per personally there's a reason for the maximum of 24 and it doesn't seem like it's going to alter the design
except for the ceiling height inside the home which is >> on the first floor and second floor. So, instead of having ceilings of 11 and 12, you may have 10 and 11 or uh 10 and and 10, I don't know, something um along
those lines, which still leaves a nice ceiling height. >> Um but I I don't think that it's going to affect the outside design, which is beautiful, um by not granting this wa this um waiver. Um,
>> are you >> there was one more just going back to the previous question of the windows. I actually in contrast with her I always like the darker window frames Mllian because I to me it just looks more elegant but that's a matter of taste and
I think at the end of the day the owners are going to live there so it's really what their preference may be. M there is one element to the design. We do have that the second floor slab which is continuous with the roof elevation height that is really at that that
higher elevation because we're utilizing that eve that overhang above the garage to totally conceal our condensing units or generator everything. So that's all totally tucked into a little nook and if we were to lose that 3 ft of height that would potentially become exposed. That
is on the second floor plan above the garage. What page are we? >> Um, let me see. >> I know that I know it's going to be a lot a lot hard to work with overhead MPs. You lose that. >> Definitely. I would >> definitely >> I wouldn't want to lose that 3 ft if I
were you. >> All the way to page 26. >> I was actually wondering too. The garage was the one structure that did seem and again that's really it seems like the one thing that you're going to see. >> Page 26. It's the roof. The garage did seem >> it's the roof plan >> higher.
Right. And that and that's because this is uh it's >> an atypical way of uh you know shielding and screening your uh all your mechanical equipment. Right. There is an some flexibility to put it in the sidey yards. We have decided not to do that
and instead put it on top of the mechanical. So on the left side the mechanical equipment is uh on essentially the roof of the garage but tucked away and hidden uh which is good for screening, good for you know noise reduction all those uh elements. And you
can see that the rest of the actually upper roof >> is entirely devoid of everything any and all you know there is no um increase in height above uh at all. Our neighbor to the north, by the way, does have a roof deck. Uh so that adds to the mass and
you know, habitable space up there with the railings and all. So there's nothing on our upper roof, which again helps to uh further streamline, you know, this uh to be more compatible with the neighborhood. And then to the home to the south, you know, that that was a much older home. Uh so built uh you know
below today's standards by probably you know I'm gonna at least three if not four to five feet because uh the age of most of the older homes you know and the the city is in a in a mode of for resiliency purposes raising sidewalks raising streets uh so eventually you
know whenever that house is redeveloped it will also need to be much higher and therefore be much more compatible with with our home. So, >> so this is the uh this is page 15. This is a rendering of the um front of the
home. The um mechanical equipment is basically on top of this garage over here. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> But it would not be visible from the street or any of the neighbors. >> So, if this garage were lower, it could still have that design on the top,
>> but then you would see the top of the mechanical equipment, which I do not like. And that would also maybe push me to have to put it onto the roof, which I would also not prefer. >> How high is the ceiling in the garage now? >> Uh, I believe it is. Do we have nine feet? >> Eight or eight or nine feet. The actual
ceiling height in the garage is not that tall and we were willing to sacrifice that simply so we could conceal all of our mechanical equipment above it >> cuz that garage seems to be higher than the first. It is higher than the first floor and almost as high as the second floor. Yeah,
>> this I had the same concerns and again I wasn't sure if it was just the angle with which the rendering was but that was >> and again that's the element that is going to be interacting >> the the elevation of the land is lower so the garage is taller but the units
are set set lower but he's trying to continue the eve from the front of the house to the back of the house so if we shorten >> the ceiling height on one >> it bring it brings that and then then the units then stick up like that. So
>> I think that's a creative way of hiding the equipment and getting it away from the set sidelines and and setbacks. >> Um >> we have a good section on page 30. >> 30. >> Yeah. >> 30. Yes. Towards the rear of the package. So here right you can see on the left
you can see the garage which itself is lower which helps again as you approach from the street even if there was no landscaping but the equipment on the top now you can see how the second floor lines up and is helpful for you know keeping that properly screened
>> and it also explains why it seemed to us that that why is that height so >> it's also about the continity continuity the waves of those curves curves are continuous from the main house to the garage which if that those were at a different elevation there would be a separate element which I think would
make the architecture a bit less um >> what equipment are you are you placing on top of the >> condensing units and generator >> okay so it's the generator that's really requesting the height because it's higher than the condensing units >> um we have
>> equipment per se >> yeah the generator will be a little bit a little bit taller the condensing units. The newer versions have actually gotten taller as well. So, the delta between those is not that. You have dyken units that don't you can actually put against the wall and they're like
the mini split condensing units >> in size and they are nowhere in >> you know much smaller than this which is what a lot of people are doing now because of the bulkiness of a regular condensing unit like this one of putting it on a side set back where they cannot
put it or putting it in the front of a lawn or the back of a lawn. Um, but it's the generator. Um, you know, I just personally I don't see I I understand what you're trying to do
and keeping the same line um above the garage as you have above the first floor, >> but I you're very creative and I think it can be arranged with a lower um without the three additional feet that
are being requested. And are you concerned that the additional feet will have a negative impact on the on the older homes? >> But yes, well at this point it is >> on the older homes on the older homes that are there and and also across the street and in that neighborhood that
corner there that turn is very tight. But in addition to that, there's a reason for this maximum height. And if every time you know someone wants three more feet or two more feet, we granted
you know I think in the design it can have been taken into account. You certainly could have had a mechanical room with the size of lot um and yet not have required this. Um so that's my
>> Hi, my name excuse me my name is Matthew Lewis on the landscape side. I would just say if if if you excuse me if you looked at the um the landscape specs that we're promoting which is heavily native native understory trees and then
we have between 20 and 30 clear trunk palm trees that are running down the side. I'd be willing to bet that you wouldn't even see this house unless you're perhaps on the bay. Um, we have a really beautiful layering architecturally speaking of landscape
along the front, along the sides, and even in the back. So, I think um I think that's important when you think about the house. It's not just a house sitting on a plan like in an architecture studio, but it's sitting within a context of this very lush, dynamic, and native landscape.
And then and just to be clear the there is there is some landscaping or like some higher sort of trees or shorter trees in front of this garage that we'll see. >> Yeah. I mean I think when you look at the rendering for example >> Yeah. because there I mean you'd said
that the you know in order to see the structure you'd change you know the rendering landscapes aren't exact. >> We have two we there's a existing power line here. You can't plant a tree here. But I think I mean that's that's the dilemma between showing the I mean you
want to show the architecture but the reality is we're going to have green buttons that sit like this. >> So you're going to see the edges of the architecture but it's really going to be screened not only at the front but along the sides. >> Okay. Thank you. Um
>> you know I it just and I agree with what you're saying. It's not going to be as visible from the front. obviously more visible from the back when you're in the waterway, >> but it's the precedence we set of granting waiverss for an additional 3 ft
um to hide equipment, mechanical equipment that could have been taken care of in the floor plan of the house. >> Mhm. >> Actually, maybe um to address >> it's very it's very flush. I mean, you
don't really see it much from the street um at all because of your landscaping, which is lovely. Um >> Myra, I agree. I agree with you, but I think that my first question to staff was this is an oversized lot. And I
think these guys did a a really nice job of a design here. And first thing I looked at was, you know, do you need 11 foot ceilings in the bedrooms? Okay, it's it's gracious. It's it's nice. Um, but I don't want to be like, you know,
take a foot off of this just because. So, given the landscaping that that Matt's talking about and the design, I I don't I don't I I I don't want to set a precedent. We were just throwing 3 feet out. And that's why if this was a
regular lot with a house that nobody designed well and it they were trying to max it out and there wasn't any architectural creativity to it. I I would I would think differently, but I don't know. I've been I I feel I feel
like there's been thought to this. Um, again, 11 feet is is a lot, but I don't, you know, 10 feet for a bedroom is is is fine, but I don't think I'm okay with with what they're asking for, my opinion. >> I have a question that I'm now going to
request that we I'm going to direct them, and you're going to have comments about it, but please refrain. I I want Adam's professional opinion. I was actually going to ask you that because I think that this was part of it's not just this thing over the garage, but in
general, what seems to be uh sort of what height, ceiling heights do you prefer? First story, second story, what seems reasonable as an architecture professional >> for me? uh uh on the ground level a a 12
foot open space and these spaces aren't that big is is nice you know a 10 foot is I wouldn't I wouldn't want less than 10 ft and on a bedroom this house I don't think I wouldn't want
9 foot ceilings so given the three feet if we're taking a foot off of the ground level we're bringing that to 11 and then we're taking the two feet off of off of the the 11 Um, I don't think it's compromising the
integrity of the house. Will it still be gracious and and nice, but I think they're they're just over they're just over what I would be >> they're they're they're going for it. Yeah, they're just over it. Right. >> And then what is your professional opinion on the height of a garage?
>> From the like the interior or for the exterior? >> The interior. For the interior, you definitely need at least nine feet for for a garage to get the doors open, to get storage and things like that. So, they're just they're just at that for the interior. >> Okay. >> Otherwise, the door comes down and it it
it it gets cramped. Nine is is minimum. >> Okay. >> May I add one more? This is helpful because it's something that you're Yeah, it comes up a lot with these homes and I've always I personally have always wanted some guidance as to what seems >> appropriate especially because we get
asked for these height waivers and in that >> and and and probably Cody would agree with me, but this is indooroutdoor living. So on the ground level, we we want the height to extend to the outside. We don't want to be outside and be sitting under something low. The air
flow isn't that that nice. And then then the ground is sloping down to the seaw wall and we want the house to open up like this. So that's why you know again this isn't this isn't a these aren't giant rooms either. So my my opinion is you know you don't necessarily need 11
ft in the bedrooms but uh that downstairs level is is is okay. >> This is a house that is proposed at 6,400 square ft. So it's not small by no means in unit size. If I may, if I may add, the house to the north, uh, which
is on a larger lot, uh, while new, did come in for a waiver. They actually were granted a a two-foot waiver, and the resiliency rules, right, being above with freeboard wasn't yet in effect at the time. So, that's the majority of the
reason why that home uh is lower is lower than ours. >> Okay. Uh so but if they were to go in today, you know, they would have come here similarly and uh obviously had been granted that waiver for similar reasons, I'm sure, to you know, have have the size breathe appropriately.
>> Yeah, we I I appreciate what you're saying and I understand that. Um I have issues twofold. in a 6,400 square foot home, I think there could be have been space allocated for mechanical room um
to house equipment um equip you know be it the compressors and the generator or what have you. Um I also I don't see where you this house is going to be elevated.
Um it's not going to be at ground level. So, even on the ground floor in the back, you're going to be higher than the waterway behind you, the canal. And you'll see um the waterway behind you cuz you'll be at a much higher or at some amount of higher um flooring, but
you'll also be looking into the homes on the other side of the canal are going to be facing you. So, that's uh also something to consider. And my concern is just the precedent that we set of continuing to grant waiverss and
variances. Uh but in this case, a waiver when in fact there is enough space in this lot and enough square footage in this unit size that a mechanical area could have been accommodated.
>> I I kind of think that you're I don't know. I I disagree. I mean, I think that that's you're maybe giving a more of a variance standard here. I feel like there's there's leeway here for us to to wave this. And so, this is this wiggle
room. And sort of like Adam said, the just the way that they've approached the massing and the eaves bringing it down even on the garage, like the way the landscaping is falling. It's it's everything is bringing this back down to earth. Um, so I like you said, they put
thought into it. I think that the site this site specifically kind of the larger the larger lot size is is this is an appropriate instance where we could grant a waiver especially where the applicant's been very creative. Um so I
um I'm I'm okay with it. That's that's just my opinion on this. I will also say too, I do appreciate the fact that there is no roof deck on this and um I mean that's something that we see all the time and that puts me each time when
we're talking about height like that's the thing. It's like okay you want this waiver and now you want a roof deck or even having it and that really and they're always set back etc etc but I really appreciate it. I really appreciate projects that don't have roof decks. Um, and the the terms of with the
mechanical, you know, not only is it the additional height on the first floor, but it's also the additional 3 ft, it's the additional height on this in the rest of the structure. It's not just the mechanical. So, what he's saying is the design is sort of dependent on these heights, the design throughout, not just
the mechanical. I understand what you're saying. I see what and I and I see what Laura is saying. Um, I was gonna say this, you know, there's also on the one hand, I would like to encourage people to not have these roof decks and to minimize the height and the impact that
way. And this project is achieving that. Um, 3T, you know, there's room for wiggle room. We could decide it could just be a twoft waiver. You know, my also big concern overall regardless is that this house is going to be even
taller than the new house next door that was already granted waiverss. And I know that the codes have changed, etc., etc., but that's also something to think about because there are still quite a few homes, and this happens all the time, that are shorter on the other side. And
so, how do you make this building that's now going to be probably the tallest one in this area, how do you make it compatible with the rest of the neighbors, which seems to be Myer's big concern. So, >> it's also the neighbors across the
canal, the other island before them. >> So, I mean, I don't know if that's something that maybe we could say we'll grant you, you know, a two-foot waiver or, you know, whatever. It is in our purview to be able to say yes, no, how, you know, a variation like there has to
be a compromise. And if we just were to give it a two I, you know, a 10-ft ceiling in a, you know, on the second floor still has that luxury feel to it. But, you know, and from the outside, I I do very strongly believe that every inch
matters and it is some impact. One foot does make a difference, especially when something is so high to begin with. So, that that's that's my thoughts on this. >> Roelio, um, there's five of us here. Do
they need a five vote? >> Wa >> waivers only require four votes. >> Okay. So it it it seems I'm the only one opposing this. So uh and it's not fair to them because they were here last time and there was a whole board. So if if
I'm the only one opposed, they can still it seems it can pass with the other with my other board members here. So my you know I think I've expressed my concerns. I don't need to reiterate them. So, and I don't want I just did not want them to
be penalized because we had to come today and have a much smaller board. Thank you. So, maybe I can direct members of the board to make a motion, you know, knowing that we can deny the we can deny the waiver, we can grant it
in full, we can grant it partially, whatever that is. Whoever wants to make a motion. Doesn't say a motion to grant the full waiver. Just repeat. >> I I'll second that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Motion by Mr. Lester, second by
Miss Leuen. Um that's motion to approve. All those in favor. >> Or do you want to do a roll call? >> We can do Oh, yes. That's probably best. Yes. Uh Miss Bagawi. >> No. >> Sorry. No. >> Miss Giller Nelson? >> Yes. >> Mr. Lester? >> Yes.
>> Miss Leuen? >> Yes. >> Mr. Meshber? Yes, motion passes. >> I I should also and maybe we should have included this the to discuss with staff or examine the different the lighter shade. >> Yes, correct. We will do that. Y >> yeah, thank you very much. And I do
really appreciate your arguments. I really I think that that's very well >> just for clarity. There's already a condition regarding you know working with staff on the final color and design of the all the specific materials including the metal. Oh, it's not. Isn't
it usually that the materials that you present to us is what stays, not a work with staff? >> We um subject to well, we make we write the conditions subject to the direction from the board. So that if you uh provide direction to darken it, lighten it, whatever the case may be, we follow
that direction as we're reviewing the building permit plan. >> Okay. But other than that, what they're presenting now is what you're going to stick to or what you're going to >> Well, you you've given us some direction to to analyze it and see if there's a better option. So, so we'll do that. >> Okay. >> Okay. And in just I guess in general
too, I was always going the assumption that when >> applicants presented the materials board and the project was approved, it had to be those materials that were in >> That's correct. But sometimes um what you see in the plan um is not as
detailed as it as it is once the actual building permit comes in. So we want to make sure that when they do come in for the building permit that it does match that it does in fact match what um what was presented to >> we're talking about the color of the uh mllian of window frames.
>> I was talking about all the finishes >> in in general. Yeaheneral we make sure that it follows it follows what was presented to the board. >> Yeah. I think in general it needs to follow this because we're here for design and if it changes >> dramatically then obviously it would be a different design.
>> Roelio um page two of the memo. >> Mhm. >> Um the amount of the height proposed structure says 30 ft. I think it should be 27, right? >> I believe that's a typo. >> Oh yes. Right. Right above that it says >> Yeah. 27. I think that would
>> Yes. Yeah. And the order is correct. The order does say um I think it's correct the way I read it anyway. >> And the order has it properly it says 27 ft above DFE. >> Right. We'll we'll make that correction.
>> The order D1A says it's a three-foot waiver shall be approved for a flat roof height of 27. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> I apologize. >> That's as per our drawings. >> We had 20 reports this month plus five for BOA. We were >> That's all.
Exactly. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you all very much. >> Thank you. >> Okay. And now finally, thank you for your patience. Um DRB25-117 8101 Congllins Avenue. This application is requesting design
review approval for the construction of a new singlestory community information center Miami Beach locked cabin building with an exterior patio to be located in a vacant area with the North Beach Oceanside Park.
Okay. So, this is a a an application being proposed by the by the city. Um, this is uh to create a log cabin within Northshore, North Beach Oceanside Park, which used to be uh Northshore Ocean
Open Space Park, I believe. Uh, the name changed recently. Um, so this this is um essentially paying homage to the original log cabin structure that used to exist in the West lots. Um, that structure had to be uh dismantled in
2017. A lot of the pieces of that structure were kept in storage. The logs, the chimney um and several other elements um were kept in storage. Um the structure was was an unsafe structure. It it could no longer uh stand. So they so they so that's what the city did and
preserve and kept the pieces um in storage. Um so this is an application to to create a new log cabin in the within the within the park. Um, the log cabin is being designed in a similar fashion to the original. However, it will have
uh an open terrace along its perimeter that I believe the original log cabin did not have. Um, as part of this new log cabin, uh they'll be reusing the chimney and and uh several of the wood elements that existed in the prior log cabin uh to create architectural accents
to create furniture on the interior to um um pay homage to that structure. Additionally, in the interior of the structure, they're planning on on providing elements to uh talk about the history of the original log cabin structure. Um so the the uh you can see
you can see the images a standard standard log cabin structure. It's going to have a stone chimney in the center. Um the roof will consist of a dark gray seamed metal will consist of dark gray seam metal roof panels. Um they're very compatible with the design of the structure. Um the structure is going to
have to be raised a little bit. So, there's going to be a uh stone wall along the perimeter and there there there will have to be some ramping and stairs to get up to the level of the log cabin. U but they're being designed in a in a fashion that is compatible with this style of architecture. Um the uh
log cabin structure is intended to be used as a community gathering space. Um and staff uh does recommend that the application be approved subject to the conditions in the draft order. Um I will note um yesterday the city commission did refer uh on the consent agenda a
discussion item to the neighborhoods committee um so that they can uh discuss the location and if there should be any changes to the log cabin. If that happens, if the city commission decides that this is not the way they want to go, there's going to have to be a new application uh for the log cabin
structure where wherever that may be. So at this point, we're just considering uh the design of the log cabin at the location as preserved. If that location has to change, we'll see another application come before the board. Um, so with that, um, we can turn it over to the to the applicant and we have, as I
said, we have copies of the of the presentation before, so we can follow along. >> Hello. Good morning. How are you? My name is Evelyn. I'm representing BA Architects. I'm have with being here the architect of record, Robert Draper, and
this the city of Miami Beach. Um, go ahead. Go ahead. You want to talk? No, >> go ahead. >> Okay. >> We have here the the landscape architect Mle Lake Nelson Paris for us to present.
So, if you can turn to page three. So, here we here we can see on this slide the original city of Miami Beach lo cabin condition. The original lo cabin was built in 1934 and it served as a community asset and symbolize the North
Beach um historical beginnings but due to life light life safety reason it was dismantled in 2017. Um the se the the original lo cabin had approximately 1,200 square ft of total area. It it also included wood finished
floors, wood interiors, chimney located in the center of the building which will be used in the new proposed log cabin. Uh and also it has a roof tie wood framing with household fiberglass roof shingles. In the following slide, you're
going to see some some of other images of the original old cabin condition and also of the dismantle um chimney. As you can see following the the slide number five,
these are some ideas that we're thinking of reusing the materials such as the wood locks from the original log cabin. We can use it as a as furniture piece. Uh anything that has to do with interior.
We wouldn't be using it anything that has to do with any structure feature or anything like that cuz it's not it's not structurally stable. Same thing goes for slide number six. This is some ideas that we can use the
woodlocks. On slide number seven here we're going to discuss the project location. The project is located in Miami Beach, uh, North Beach Ocean Park. Uh, this is the proposed side by the city. As you can see, these are
different, um, views from the street. And then on the on the right side, you're going to see some views looking towards the vacant um, site. On the following slide, you're going to have the existing park condition, how
you enter the park, and how you circulate around the area of the park. And also, you can see towards the southern side, which you're going to have an existing park, dog park, and also an existing restroom. So, the new log cabin consists mainly of
a new 1,200 square foot one-story log cabin and it will potentially serve as a community center, an information center, and it's inclusive and it will showcase photos of the original log cabin. Some material selections to to consider
would be the materials will have to be resistant to salt spray and moisture since it's very close to uh the water and it also will have to have um sealers. Also, it needs to also comply with
building codes and it needs to have um you know NOA product approval and so forth and so on and all. In the following page, you're going to have a North Piece proximity map which shows the location of the of the the proposed
location of the of the law cabin and everything that goes around it. And on the following page, we zoom in more into the areas and you can see that you have um hotels, restaurants, public schools, private schools, and bus stops.
If you go to the following page here, we have a more detailed um survey per se of the selected location. You have around that the proposed location. You have pike rack, picnic and barbecue areas. You have public
bathroom. This is very important. The bathrooms are about 200 275 ft from the actual lock cabin. So that's why we don't have restrooms on the lo cabin because we have restrooms nearby.
We also have authorized parking and we have an existing door park as previously mentioned. On the following page we have the as bill record survey previously um provided to you. On the following one
uh page we have the zoning ordinance. Here we have the required building setbacks and the proposed building setback. The site has a a governmental use type of zoning. So we had to we had to look at the zoning restrict around
the site and add them up and do a percentage and that's what give us the required building setback and then we had a proposed on the on the bottom you will see the proposed building setback. So we do meet zoning requirements.
On the following page we you can find the light safety drawing. This is just you us explaining you the occupancy type the how much of allowance we have for the building height. We're very very
well set on that because our building is not even 40 ft high. So we comply with that. Um we have a construction 5B is non sprinkle and the total building area here is um 1,200 square ft. So and
allowable board is 6 6,000 square ft. So we're we're very well on the following page we have the overall proposal for the site plan. Here we show the property line and the required setback. Here we we show some
of the existing trees and some of the relocated trees due to since as you can see in the dash area, those are the trees that are going to be removable and and some of them are going to be relocated around the side to provide shading for the for the outdoor patio
area. Here at the bottom you can see the onestory restroom and in in the in in the general notes we mentioned that that those restrooms are 275 ft from the from the actual cabin. So they're walkable at
a walkable distance. The following page is mostly a tree disposition plan showing what's existing, what needs to be relocated and what needs to be removed. On the following page, you have your
enlarged proposed site plan. Here we just mention the the roof slopes, um the outdoor patio, what type of materiality we're going to be using. We're going to be using permeable pavers. We we're going to here you can see uh two
different ways of accessing the the log cabin. You have ADA compliance ramps and also the steps towards the front. We're also proposing new bike racks over a new concrete path on the side of the building.
On the following page, you have more of a zoom in area of the tree disposition plan. And on the following area, you have the uh proposed floor plans. Here we we included um a finished legend
schedule portraying the the type of wood flooring that we're going to be using. We're going to be using chevron chevron wood floorings. We're going to be using on the exterior side um because we have a a wood a wood deck that wraps around
the actual building and that's going to be made out of eer wood. is very resistant to the these weather conditions. And the building is going to be a a a um structurally it's going to be the exterior walls are going to be 8 in CMU
walls with interior and exterior wood siding. It could be either wood log siding or it could be a composite. It that's still undetermined. And you're going to have we're going to have aluminum railing for ADA compliance
on the ramps and also around the building. On the following slide, you you're going to find the reflected ceiling plants. Here we're showing that we're complying with M of eress uh for with photometrics.
And also you can take a note that the light fixtures that we're using it complies with um FDWC which is for the total compliance amber lights. On the following slides we have we have all the elevations here. We have
the north elevations and on the on the on the side you're going to have a table that it actually list all the materials that we're using for the log cabin. We're using as number one, we're using standing sink metal roof. We're a charcoal color. Uh number two, we're
using a structural steel column with EA wood cladding. Number three, we're using permeable pavers. That's going to be on the on the as as you enter the building on the exterior side and on the patio. On number four, we're using a stone
cladding over eight C 8 in CMU wall. Number six, we're using stone cladding over 42 height casting place concrete wall. Number seven will be aluminum railing. Number eight will be an aluminum gutter. And number nine, aluminum down spouts.
Number 10, we're going to have mechanical condensing units on the side of the building. And these ones are going to be located over a concrete pad and it will be also we're proposing a wood screening around it. Number 12 will be an aluminum bike racks
that is going to be adjacent to the building. And number 13 and number 14 is your typical um NOA or Florida product approval window glazing system and door glazing system. Number 15 will be your
concrete wall and wood cladding. Number 16 will be a wood deck. Number 17 again 42 42 inches high aluminum cableboard and number 18 exterior marine graded um light fixtures and number 19 finally
will be your amber lead round flat top. I wanted to give you like a more of a detail because this is this table is going to be repeated on the following pages. So we're just going to go through them as we go. On the following page, you have the east
elevation. It's worth noting as you can see where we we have the the original lo cabin chimney. As you can see on the following slide, we have the west elevation. Here we can see how the
building how you enter and you you enter the building and then on the side you have the welcome to city of Miami Beach log cabin. So you you as you can see on the floor plan and on this side you have two ways of approaching the building. You have
the main which is through the steps and then for ADA compliance uh PE uh ramp for people with disability. The on the following slide you're going to have the proposed south elevation.
For the following slide, you're going to have the material board, which are all the materials that we're using and we're proposing to be used for this project. On the following page, you have the low cabin sections. Here we can we we
illustrate the chimney that which is the heart of the this proposal of the community center for this log cabin. Also, you can see >> Can you tell us what page you're on at this point? What page are you looking at? >> Oh, on the 27th. >> 27th.
>> 27th. Okay. Yes. Yes. On section one, you can see I'm gonna repeat. Um, you can see the centerpiece is the chimney from the original log cabin. And then on the right side, you're going to see a desk. That desk is actually a reception
desk that that would um um as soon as people come into the doors, it will welcome the people from the community. this reception desk. The the materials that we're going to be using are going to be um the ones from the original log
cabin, the logs, the wood locks, and also we're going to have some treatments on the interior side that we're going to such as building furniture that we're going to be using these locks as well. on the following page which >> you're a bit over time. Are you is there
more? >> I mean it's just the following pages is mostly um renderings. >> So it's just going through them. So it's so you can see here on page 28 the exterior rendering in the morning.
And then again we break down the materiality of this. And then on the following page, page 30, you're going to see a a night render view. Again, if you turn the page, you're going to see the proposed materials. And
then the following pages are exterior views, southeastern elevation views, just 3D renderings. You can you can turn the pages as you like. So that way you have an idea of what it
would look like in a three-dimensional view. On page 38, you can see the interior view of the lo cabin. Here we we specify that we are reusing the original lo cabin chimney. And as you can see on
the wall, we are showing CA showcasing original photos of the original um log cabin. It's important to know that this is a it's a it's a place for for people from the community to come and engage and meet one another. As you
can see, even though the furniture is not set in stone, per se, we we were able to kind of um classify different zones for people to engage. There's some areas that you're going to have kids and mothers gathering around the chimney,
more more warm, and then in other areas, you're going to have more of a study session with a table. And in another one another another um section if you if you turn the page to to page 40 you're going
to have more of a an isolated corner you know more private setup and that will be all. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. I mean the the the I'm sorry the final page will be m mostly the project schedule and actually
the next steps to follow. Right now we are in the DRB presentation and then the the the next phase will be um the 60% set of drawings and then construction documents permitting and bidding award
will follow and then construction and then project completion. So that's the timeline. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Does that do you have more to add about the project? >> I I'll wait to answer questions. >> Okay, perfect. Thank you. Um, are there
any other members of the public wishing to participate? >> There is nobody on Zoom. >> Okay, I'm now closing the public portion, opening it up to the board for discussion. Um, I actually had, if you don't, I'm going to sort of set the tone with a general question that I think
will also, um, so I have to say as I'm going through this, I'm I'm enjoying the design more, but I have a my first impression too was the why, like why why does the parks department want to build this in this location and what what are
the plans to have it activated and used? Good morning. Colette Satchel, um, Office of Capital Improvements, the Divi Division Director for Design. Um, so in 2017, after Doug Wood evaluated the building, it was determined that we had
to tear it down. I think Roelio set that up for you. Um, in 2017, trying to figure out what to do with the building, the city commissioned Dover Cole. Do Cole, as you know, is the primary design firm for the North Beach
master plan. They suggested three locations and all of them, of course, after several community meetings at that time included three locations in North Beach Ocean Space Park. They there's a resolution where those three locations
were presented to the commission and um where those three locations were um presented to the commission and we were directed to locate it in that option that was closest to 82nd Street. As I think Roelio mentioned, North Beach Ocean Space Park underwent a major
renovation um that was completed about 2 or 3 years ago. Um during that redesign, we knew that the log cabin was coming to the park. So there was a space that was anticipated three different locations possibly um where it would the design of
the park was actually, you know, arranged around the anticipation of this location. So we're really acting on direction from the commission to place it in a park. So, we're not placing it at 82nd Street because the new design kind of shifts the walkway, but 81st Street is really awesome because you
have a stop light so people can easily cross to get into the park. You have a bus stop so those who come by bus can easily access the building if they need. Um, so the location is shifted somewhere between 81st and 82nd Street, but it it aligns with a walkway and a entrance
feature directly off of Collins Avenue into the park. Um, that's how we got here with the location. >> And let me ask you a question too for for the other members of the board that maybe haven't been in Miami Beach for a very long time, especially when the geo
bond and other project. Can you give us some history and some context? I'm wondering too once the structure was deemed um unlivable or not sturdy and taken down, why why was the choice made to salvage the pieces to begin? Why wasn't
it just torn down like anything else and moved on? I I guess what I'm trying to understand too because I know you've been working for the city for a long life as well is what what is the role of this log cabin like why was it so important to be saved and and what's the sort of greater
>> so this is really based on community input I think people associate with the building it has had community uh functions over the years and people remember going there to pick up certain things or going there for certain functions and based on community input
um even during the North Beach master plan. There was a indication that the community had associations with this building and many of them even thought it was historic. So, you know, there was a period where they referenced it as a historic log cabin, which it's not. Um,
so this is all based this is all based on community input, you know, and and um, you know, we we went in and at the time in 2017 when the building was dis disassembled because it was structurally unstable um, we went ahead and we had it in
storage um, for many years, you know, air conditioned storage. It was cataloged and and stored. At that point, I think about 45 or 50% of the building was not usable. it was really that far deteriorated. Um,
we've had the wood and the chimney in storage for years, spending a lot of money and we recently recently a couple years ago brought it on to the beach, you know, where we purchased a storage container and we're storing it here um because of the input that we've received
from the community. Um in 2018 is when we received funding through the geo bond and of course this project was supposed to be um slated for trunch 2 for those who are familiar with the tranch system and in 2024 we received direction again
from the commission based on community input that we should accelerate this project. So based on the 2024 directive, we've moved ahead, you know, selected a consultant and here we are following the direction, following the analysis by the
professionals, well-known professionals as a part of, you know, and and their suggestion really is based on community input after several sharets, not just for the specific project, but also for the North Beach master plan. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. And then how do you envision
the structure being used? Um, and are there no other I guess maybe this is I I'm not sure if this is your division or also the parks division, you know, how else are I know that we do have some parks that have, you know, enclosed air conditioned pavilions in them, you know,
how is this going to be used? So the direction the direction from the commission was as a community facility, you know, where people could gather and and I don't want to speak for the parks department because ultimately they will, but under that hat, they could do anything from, you know, host small
weddings to have small group activities for the kids, arts, you know, they could it could be a a great location, especially with the patio proposal on the rear to have something for Halloween in the park. it it offers so many opportunities for programming as a
community function. I think one of the uh so that we can reference what was passed yesterday, um we're being referred to committee to discuss a possible use to include a a food pantry. So there there is a conversation going on about what the possible uses could be, but it's wide. It's it's really open
and the the facility is being designed in a way where it could be used for any community use based on its size. >> Thank you. Mhm. >> What was what was the use of the prior log cabin? Was it similar? >> It was similar. They had community functions. Um at one point, I think
parks had offices inside there, but we we have recollection from people where they went there to pick up things from the parks department or from the city. So, it it was a community use. >> And And then why was this part of it moved from the west lots to the park?
Because it was originally somewhere in the west lots. Like what? Yes, it was at it was next to that masonry building that's still there. Um 8128. Um it was a recommendation from Dover Cole based on their analysis, right? And and
and that analysis is based on um the North Beach master plan. I I go back to that. And then um that that suggestion was approved um by the commission. So, you know, we're acting based on those directions.
>> Yeah. Well, as someone who frequents this park almost daily, I do like seeing that they're going to activate that part of the uh park itself. And I actually really like that it looks like a cabin or welcome center you see in a national park in like Colorado or like um Montana
or Wyoming. So, it's kind of a little different than what you see in the rest of Miami. >> But I do have one question. the um rear patio. Has there been any idea or thought of using it for like um different type of function like for like
farmers markets or type of like uh not pavilion but like a auditori like open air like pavilion for like um live theater or any type of other type of use rather than just a flat patio and not have any other functions. >> Absolutely. Yeah.
>> Okay. And what other what other functions do we see being? >> You can you can create any events by the city. It could it could be um I mean we have trees that offers shades during during the morning and afternoon. So I
mean I to be honest with you Kai is the limit. Um you have the area and you can create any events that you like. It depends on what the city or the community wants to propose. I think a great example, if you're familiar with Grenell's Park, they have similar
structures within their park and um their venues for awesome weddings, for birthday parties, for possible farmers market, for youth group meetings. Um there's even a few of these structures within Grenell's Park, Stone and Wood, that they actually use them for
campsites, you know. So, it offers where they activate bring the children out to nature, you know, boys uh the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts. So, there's so many possibilities um for use. >> Have you looked in Will there be fencing around the patio itself or
>> It's not shown yet. It it it it's not shown yet. >> Okay. >> It was the idea was for it to be open. And if you notice, they've actually maintained some of the existing trees so that you know it it's more of a natural extension an extension of the natural area.
>> Yeah. Laura, did you have some? >> Um, yeah, I have a few um I guess questions and and comments. Um, I guess Rael, I have a question. So, are we I guess allowed is it in our purview to talk about the interior because it's a public space or are we just solely
commenting on the exterior? >> Generally, the purview of this board is the the exterior and the the outward facing design. um you can certainly provide uh recommendations to them that they can consider. Um but generally the
perview of this board is the exterior. >> Okay. I just more have a question I guess on one of the interiors. Just looking at the um any of the really interior renderings u around the the fireplace you've you've changed the flooring from like chevron to to just
regular planks. Is that is there any significance to that? Is that like a old wood or are you just wanting to change? >> It's to actually enhance and actually emphasize the differences between the zones. >> Okay. >> So, that's why we use a different
material. It doesn't have to be chevron. It could be any materials that the client wants or the community prefers, but it's just to kind of define the zones within the interior space. >> Okay. I see. Yeah. I I like it. I was just curious if that was you were, you
know, reusing some from some wood from the prior site. Um, I do like it. I was just curious about that. Um, I do I love the slides five and six where you're thinking about repurposing
>> um wood from the prior cabin. I mean, I think if >> if it's I apologize. I I don't if it's not a condition in there already. I think that that's very important and I think that that really will add a lot of character to the space um both interior
or exterior. Um so I I'd really I'd really emphasize that that be thought through more because I I I know these are just examples. Um but I didn't really see any of that in any of the renderings beyond the chimney which I
love as well. Um, so I I just really like to see that that used more. Um, you know, I don't know if that's ADA compliant, but maybe you can put the, you know, not the actual grab rail, but maybe you can put that along the railing for the ramp or or something like that.
I think that that would add a lot of whimsy to the to the effect of having like a log cabin in the middle of the beach. >> Um, what was my other comment? Um, one comment on the exterior design. Um, and
maybe others will disagree with me. I think that this stone wall is a little intense. Um, just in in its massing. Um, for just how much I guess I'm looking at like slide 29.
Um, maybe those could be columns of the stone and then you break it up with more of a like a an open sort of wall. It's just it's very heavy. Um and I think the wood is already going to be very heavy. >> Uh the wood structure is going to be
already really heavy. So to have some uh just relief from just a full stone wall um that would be a suggestion from me. >> Um >> is just sorry to to interrupt. So the side elevations have the stone broken up
by by some um rails. Is that more more or less what you're considering? Yeah, maybe continuing that in the front. Um I think that that >> to me it just it looks too heavy. Um >> but that that's kind of the I think the
extent of my uh notes here. Um but it's very interesting project. Um thank you. >> Thank you, Adam. >> Um yes. Um let me have I have notes here. Um, so
I'm going to start with the windows. What were the original windows in the in the original log cabin style? It was actually glass window, but the the framing was wooden. >> Was there a divided light? Was there anything specific to it?
>> No, it wasn't. There wasn't any montings or anything. And I'm actually seeing here in the If you see slide number four, >> I I could It only looks closed up. That's why I can't really tell. >> Yeah. Like if you see the interior, there's one interior photo that shows the window.
>> Maybe also was the intent to copy the original log cabin or was it I mean, is that sort of what you're >> Yeah, I'm I'm I'm sort of putting on my sort of historic hat or adaptive reuse here. Right. So you've got it looks like are fixed or sliders and these are full
pane and these are probably aluminum. We know that they're they're impact glass. So I think it's important to look at the style of a of the window, right? I don't know. I can't I couldn't tell from those photographs, right? Are there shades in front of it
if it's a fixed piece? Wood obviously they had wood frames. Um, but is this trying to be more in the spirit of what a 1940s or 30s cabin would be with a divided light or something like that? I think
that may bring character to this if that is the the point. Um, so the windows was was one point. Um, point another one, the siding. It's not clear what the siding is, what it's
going to be, composite or what. I see that I have personally no idea what the composite log siding looks like. But if you're saying you have a container of old logs, >> maybe you could start to rip those down and use those as the siding and and sand
blast them and and and treat them and maybe that could be and then we're actually really using the material as the cladding for I know the walls will be blocked, but that to me is like is this thing going to look like plasticky and not old and weather nicely or is
this going to be >> something that feels, you know, I know the park is kind of new and it's it's I don't know. I'm I'm again I'm going I'm just going to keep going with what I've got here. So, and the siding is on the inside. So, maybe you don't have enough wood to do it all. So, maybe you have to
choose Well, we're going to make the interior because that wood is is probably weathered and and has water damage on both sides. But, um and I don't know how much you have of it, but you could just do it on the interior. And then what is
the mortar or the the idea of what the mortar is between the logs? What what color is that? How is it going to be? I I don't know. I I feel like the whole all the materials here sort of have to be looked at. Um >> another point was the stone. So the
stone seems to be originated from the chimney. That's that's what I I imagine because the original Correct. >> Right. The only the only thing on the on on the the the cabin was of stone was the the chimney. So, and you have the chimney >> or you have the stones from the chimney.
>> We have the chimney, right? >> We have the chimney. It is it is intact. >> It's intact. Okay. >> It's it's been braced. >> Gotcha. So, you've got an element here and you brought it to the exterior which is nice. What's the Where do the stones come from?
What what is the the stone pattern? What is the mortar used for that? You've used it so much on the exterior that it is heavy and and and again maybe not appropriate so much to be as
appropriate as I thought your idea was was maybe using the railings or something was was better. But the the where did this I want to know where stone came from. Was it is it from Florida? It's not from around here. and and do we do you make sure you find the same
field stone and and make sure you're matching the mortar like being specific about that and then is there a cap on the wall? That wall just can't be like that. It might need a cap or something. Um, so I feel like the stone wall >> needs needs
>> need and the front elevation for sure needs needs some investigation and and how the columns die into the stone wall was another piece that they just from the rendering I'm going on just I don't know I need proportion and and of a base and what the cap is and how the how the
wood sits on it what the detail is and again I I'm I'm going overboard and I apologize. Um, and yeah, the the column bases. And let me just see what here. Um, you talked about the interior. Thank you. That was the the biggest concern
was that this be be used. Um, I asked why the chevron. Um, and then the the trusses on the interior. Um, what are you know, we're not supposed to be talking necessarily on, but what are what are they? And are they
are they of a period of a log cabin? Are they going to be pine? Are they going to be stained? Are they going to be wood? They look exposed. Um, and I think thought should be given to the interior
so that like if you're walking into this, are we walking into the past or is this just the nod to the old cabin >> and we're trying to use some pieces of it and and the community wants something. Okay. So, let's put this thing together. Are we really gonna make
it something that's like people are are I'm imagining my kids going there and then I want them to I want the first part to be the story about the cabin before they start talking about whatever else they're going to be doing there like an art class or something like first it's welcome to the cabin and the
desk is made from mil logs and the cladding is made from this and these trees came from Florida pine or I'm I'm I'm making this all up but and then the rocks came from the river up north and right and I don't know maybe there was brick somewhere I don't know maybe the
brick was part of this and we're missing we're missing brick so um >> that's >> so I guess that >> I yes I agree with those so what was the intent was it to recreate the cabin was
it to interpret the cabin in reality it was mostly to um >> I think it was a >> Please more of an homage to the old cabin. And I think you can look at the chimney as a bit of the heart of the old car cabin
that we're bringing into the new cabin. It's about community. It's about uh space they can share, but it's also an homage to the original. And the chimney, when you look at old buildings, the chimney is indeed the heart buildings. So I think we can what we can look at is
the chimney and maybe reuse the wood around the chimney from all from the original even in the flooring like you guys suggested in this design meeting and that >> is the essence of this building. >> It just uh >> Yeah. No, I mean and it wasn't a
historical building. >> It never had the opportunity to become. >> Yeah. So then let me I mean to answer Adam's questions, you know, what are what are happening with the beams and I mean what was your what was your vision?
>> Um I think it's it's more to an homage to the construction style unfortunately due to the the the wind loads and all of that. >> We can't necessarily utilize much of the structural elements from the original building. >> Most of the wood is not
>> reusable. So even if you wanted to recreate it, >> we couldn't use it in any of the structural elements. That's the uh >> that's the And so you're choosing different material. >> And again, the chimney and historic construction is always especially lock cabins up north. When you think about
these buildings, the fireplace is the heart because that's where the warmth of the home is. That's kind of where we're where we were thinking with the >> And then what about the the concern the questions about the windows? Uh, I think we could definitely look at maybe like a double hung style to get
away from the more modern look that I I think that's where you're where you're headed. >> And I agree. I think >> I'm bringing it up because >> but again because of wind load we couldn't necessarily if we went wood
>> the financial impact. >> No, no, I I'm not suggesting that but I'm saying that there's this what is the story, right? like give the give the community a story and and stick with it and then the design pieces build upon that for the design pieces and it'll all
it'll come together right and the windows are part of it >> and I'm I'm not necessarily suggesting this should be a historical replica of a of a cabin from Yellowstone. Um, but if that's what if that's what the intention is, then then you know I think we said
it last time. >> Yeah. And I think I think it is a good idea to bring the education of the original building to the forefront. >> Maybe the first thing you see as you enter the cabin like you suggested makes a lot of sense. >> You know, educating and and and the again the story and and talking about it
is is like giving something just more than what's happening inside and and what people are what's the event is happening there. Like you get further the story of it. It just makes everything a little more richer. And maybe there's a little plaque or something that talks about this. >> Yeah. Like when you I don't know if
you've ever been to like Everdo City, they have a lot of historic structures in there and they have always a plaque explains the original. >> I haven't been there. But >> yeah. >> Well, and I also think maybe too it's I I the general feeling that I'm getting
is that the design is neither one nor the other. that it's it's in that. Yeah, you need to sort of choose a perspective because if you're going to go more traditional log cabin in that way, an homage to what was there and you know
study those traditional forms and I think that certainly the windows really will help with that. Even I also noticed I kept comparing the original to the proposed and you know there's the double doors in front you know that that wouldn't really be in the log cabin. So,
I I think maybe the direction is choose a direction. Either do traditional log cabin or do something that's a that's a little bit more modern, but there's not enough of either one in the current plan. Does that seem to be what?
>> I think that's a good way to, >> you know. Um, and yeah, cuz I I I really agree with Laura. Like, I love this idea of using the wood that you do have to add character. And you know, yeah, that would be it would be so cool if the furniture was made from these wood slats
and certainly there's enough and that would be super unique and that would be a great story. Um, but yeah, you know, like do you have trusses like this in wood cabins? You know, I I think the concept needs to be
refined a bit. Does that seem to be what >> I would also add too, and this is more on the modern side. I would request that there at least be a water fountain. I think that that would be really helpful for people. There's not enough water fountains in the public facilities um in
the beach. So, that's always um I do also, you know, like the bathroom thing. I I know that you brought it up. I I personally think if you're going to have a place that have I'm going to be honest that the two cent like I don't have a good sense of where I should have gone to the park and walked around before you
I regret that I didn't do that to know how far the bathroom is but just as a convenience especially for like the mom with the kid that's potty training something to explore I know it's sort of small but I personally I'm throwing that out there um also in terms of the
materials again you had mentioned the EP wood I I always thought that was not a very sustainable wood. Is that >> they're doing very durable? Yeah, they're doing but I mean like you know are they destroying the forests to
>> Anyway, I was just also going to include I know that a lot of the city buildings do have you know a very sort of earth friendly agenda to them and so make sure that whatever materials you do choose are especially because it's in a park the most earth friendly as
possible. Um, and yeah, I mean I do I think that you know this seems to be like it's going to be continued, which sounds like the project's going in that direction anyway, but to when you do come back to maybe have some samples, especially if you decide to go with a
composite because yeah, we've all seen composite wood done wrong. Um, and yet to have samples of the mortar and the wood product or or the wood or whatever you decide to use. Um, I personally, you know, don't want to burden on the one
hand, of course, real wood looks better and it's more authentic. I wouldn't want to burden our city with um maintenance costs that are unreasonable, which I'm sure is why you're going back, you know, that's something to consider. Um, I also
think too that comes into play certainly with the windows too with, you know, the hurricane proofing of all of that. So, um, yeah. >> I mean, to go off of that, like how we're saying, pick a direction. I don't know in in my mind like if it's if it's,
uh, better maintenance-wise to keep the more not modern, but more just homage, you know, more like how you have it now currently. But then when you step inside, it's totally different where now we're back in time like Adam's saying. you're you're using all the old
materials because here, you know, you're not worried about the elements and things like that. Um, I would personally would be okay with kind of that shift happening inside if you need to keep it more uh Florida Beach uh friendly on the
outside. Um, so, you know, just to clarify, you know, one direction maybe means one direction interior, one direction exterior. At least from my point of view. >> Yeah. Consider the durability after 30 years with kids running through it and >> everyone tearing it and heavy use like
if it's original material it's going to be corroded and >> and decompose very quickly compared to >> using modern material. So that's something that you have to >> No and I think we're all sensitive to that and I would hope that the community input is also sensitive to that. Um
>> there was something else I was going to say. So, oh, and the thing is I with the stone wall, I sort of like the stone wall because it reminds me of the coral stone wall along the beach that is such an iconic Miami Beach thing, but um I do agree it. Yeah, it would be great if it
had a story if it was a specific stone or something, you know, um related. I I don't know how you could lighten up like I think it does a good job of grounding the structure but I don't know how you can make a stone wall seem less heavy
but I do agree with Adam's point that you know the columns how they interact with the wall should be and actually just from your drawings I thought that the wall was now I'm seeing the sort of the section
encircling the structure is raised like the deck is is raised and that's why you need a stone a wall there to begin with so people don't fall. That was the point of having a wall there to begin with. >> Yes. >> Yeah. You know, things things to play with, you know, but I overall I love the
concept of having the patio and the deck and your ideas of how it's going to be activated. That was great to hear. Um and yeah, it is nice. I don't know where there are other community centers in North Beach right now. Um, I know that
there's there's plans for, you know, the parking lot on 72nd, but it would be great to have a park pavilion that's not just >> something like I I I think it's it's a nice um community. >> It's a nice structure for the community.
So I personally conceptually I think it's a great idea to have something in there and just want to see and I think that this can be really successful and noteworthy and yeah like I think it I think it I think it would be great with a little bit of
refinement. So yeah, any other comments from the board or questions for us? >> Okay, >> I think we're >> we're good. Thank you. Um, does anybody want to make a motion >> to to continue?
>> Sure. Is that is that >> Yeah. How do how do we manage that with I mean should we just make make a motion and then whatever happens in on the commission side we'll just sort of dubtail it. >> Um I would just so the next meeting is
October 23rd. Um there's the refinements that are being requested. Do you think those could be made by October 23rd or would you prefer to be continued to November? No, I think that that could be that could remain. >> Okay. >> By then. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, >> so it's up to you if you'd like to
continue October 23rd. If anything changes, we'll we'll update and revise the agenda. >> I'm sorry, Roelio. What's the date deadline for submitting for that? >> We typically like everything at least two three weeks before. Um, so we're quick turn.
>> Oh, no. >> Um, just so we can get everything online. We we have the ability to analyze it and and update our staff reports and and provide an update section. >> And I understood that, but I wanted to make sure she understood that. So I think you need November. >> Yeah, that would be okay.
>> Okay. So that would be November uh November 20th. And I would and maybe you're doing this anyway, but I will I'll also encourage you to follow along with the the meetings and the the other parts of this to give additional direction >> for the building.
>> We will. >> Okay. So, I'll make a a motion to continue to the November meeting. >> Okay. Uh do we have a second? >> Second. >> Okay. All those in favor? >> I. >> Thank you. >> Any oppos? No. Motion passes.
>> Thank you. Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you. Um, okay, that is it again. Thank you for coming back. >> Um, and we will see you in October. >> Yes, the next meeting is October 23rd.
So, thank you. Thank you for making the time to come to the special meeting to get the the September agenda out of the way. Really appreciate it. >> Um, we'll see you next month. >> Sounds great. Thank you. >> Please uh turn off your microphones because we're going to be on the air for a little bit until uh