heat heat n [Music] like that are you happy [Music] [Music] please take your seats the meeting is about to begin remember to speak into
the microphone as this meeting is being recorded for public record please stand by we are going on air in 5 4 3 2 1 good morning and welcome to the April
22nd 2025 meeting of the Miami Beach Historic Preservation Board and happy Earth to you all and um I'd like to uh turn the meeting introduction over to Debbie
Teket debbie um thank you good morning everyone um just one quick announcement before I turn it over to Nick Cleris um we will have five board members present today so um two seats are currently vacant so we will have five that is a
quorum for all of the applications um that are on the agenda this morning uh with that I'm going to turn it over to uh Chief Deputy City Attorney Nick Colleris to read the notice regarding lobbyist registration and swear in any members of the public wishing to testify
thank you Debbie and good morning Mr chairman and members of the board today's meeting of the Historic Preservation Board will be conducted in a hybrid format with the board physically present in the commission chambers at Miami Beach City Hall and applicants staff and members of the public appearing either in person or
virtually via Zoom to participate virtually in today's meeting the public may dial 1888-475-4499 and enter the webinar ID which is 817-48347488 pound or log into the Zoom app and enter the webinar ID which again
is 817-48347488 any individual wishing to speak on an item must click the raise hand icon if they're using the Zoom app or dial star 9 if they are participating by phone if you're appearing on behalf of a business a corporation or another person you need to register as a lobbyist with the city
clerk's office if you haven't registered yet you should register before you speak to the board you don't have to register as a lobbyist if you're speaking only on behalf of yourself and not any other party or if you're testifying as an expert witness providing only scientific technical or or other specialized
information or testimony in this public meeting or if you're appearing as a representative of a neighborhood association without any compensation or reimbursement for your appearance to express support of opposition to any item expert witnesses and representatives of neighborhood associations shall prior to appearing
disclose in writing to the city clerk their name address and the principal on whose behalf they are communicating if you're an architect attorney or employee representing an applicant or an objector you must register as a lobbyist these rules apply whether you're appearing in favor of or against an item or encouraging or arguing against its
passage defeat modification or continuence um and lastly I'd like to swear in any members of the public or staff who will be testifying today please raise your right hands do you swear or affirm that the testimony you'll give in this proceeding is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
thank you okay thank you Nick uh Mr chair our first order of business this morning is the approval of the February minutes does anyone have any edits or do we have a motion motion to approve
i'll second all those in favor i Okay thank you um so we can move to our first regular uh agenda item uh this is HPB
240639 8336 Street uh the possible designation of a historic site uh we are um this particular application is for the Southshore Community Center we the board had previously
uh heard the item at the December 17th meeting last year and continued the application today um during the time between the last meeting and today I had invited um several all of the members of the board at the time uh to take a tour
of the facility several of the members uh did take a tour with staff i know several of you also went on your own um and staff's recommendation is is consistent with our previous recommendation uh just to
quickly um for anyone who maybe didn't hear the December presentation to summarize this historic designation process that we have here in the city of Miami Beach so this particular application is a preliminary evaluation this is not to designate formally the
the historic site um the preliminary evaluation uh if the board decides that they believe the site meets the qualifications as a the criteria that are set forth um for historic
designation then the board may direct staff to prepare a formal historic designation report for the site um that would come back to you at a later meeting we would notice that um separately as a as um the historic
designation report presentation at that the meeting where the board reviews the formal historic designation report the board would then issue a recommendation um the recommendation would be to both the planning board and the mayor and
city commission as to whether or not um the city should designate the Southshore Community Center as a historic site the application would then be reviewed by the planning board the planning board would also issue a recommendation and then finally it would be um two readings
at the city commission where the city commission has the final authority uh whether or not to designate as a historic site so that's just a little bit of the process um a quick recap of staff's recommendation um we do believe
that the existing site uh satisfies the minimum criteria required um for designation as a historic site specifically um we do believe the um criteria a association with events that have made a
significant contribution to the history of the city the county state or nation has been satisfied um the Southshore Community Center is directly related to urban renewal policies resulting from the housing act of
1949 um the Southshore Community Center was constructed from HUD money um which was the federal grant federal government providing grants uh to municipalities um criteria C embody distinctive
characteristics of a historical period architectural design style or method of construction we believe this is satisfied um the Southshore Community Center does embody um the distinctive uh characteristics of Bertilist
style um we also believe that criteria E is satisfied um represent the work of a master serve an out of an outstanding or representative work of a master designer architect or builder who contributed to our historical aesthetic in
architectural heritage the Southshore Community Center was designed by Morris Lapidus um this is a bit of a deviation from what we're used to seeing from Morris Lapidus um this was a later building of his and showed his evolution
into um other styles beyond the post-war modern style um and finally we do believe uh criteria D is partially satisfied that um the the building possesses artistic values um we do
believe the building does still possess artistic values however um we did note that significant and distinctive features of the brutalist style have been significantly altered and that's most notably seen in the concrete that has been painted many times over
originally it was um again very characteristic of the brutal style to have the board form exposed concrete um and we don't know if the building is capable of full restoration um we hope
it is and we're hopeful that um should this be designated as a historic site that the city will uh commit to restoring the the architectural value of the building and that is a summary of our recommendation um we did also note um
with regard to the sea level rise criteria that we're required to review any designation proposal against that the site is extremely low site is one of the lowest in the city um and I think as
part of this should this move forward we would want to advise the board that alterations are going to be required specifically to the ground level um likely in the future when the streets get raised um and you know it should be a flexible
um design project to adapt this building for for sea level rise and with that we are recommending that the board uh direct staff to prepare the designation report for a future meeting does anyone have any questions
for me i I have a quick question just on the um on the process of this would are we also going to hear an an applicant um presentation or was that essentially are you presenting that so I'm I'm presenting the planning department's
presentation the planning department is not the applicant um the city commission is actually the applicant they passed a resolution um recommending that the board review uh a preliminary evaluation for this site
okay so I don't think at this point we have any um applicant presentations okay your presentation Debbie was the was the city's presentation okay so essentially we would then if you have questions for
Debbie uh now would be the time to ask them and then we'll go to board disclosures and public hearing go ahead my question would be this is already in a historic district and it has the same uh respect of any other building in the
district and I look at something like in the Collins Park neighborhood where you have the Bass Museum and that's not designated as historic um you know and and to me there's something political going on trying to designate this particular building when there are other
buildings you know in the city of Miami Beach that should already be designated as as as historic so I have a little bit of difficulty with this thank you anybody else have a question for Debbie
so I was not here at the December 17th meeting um but I did watch it um I was in court that day sorry guys um but I did watch it and I think a couple of things that came out of that that were requested were one a list of u you know
as part of this continuence right the continuence was to get more information so that's why I watched December 17th so that we could then come here today with more information um was to get a list of like sorry to get a list of the other individually designated sites that we have in the city did did we get that
um I don't think I mean we have on our historic properties database all of the individual historic sites um we have many that are city-owned properties and several that are privately owned um I'm more than happy
to you know give you if you would like yeah maybe if you could talk through some of I mean just give some examples i mean I know the BA I know in December 17th meeting again I watched it ray brought up the Bass Museum um but give some examples of other properties that
the city has designated in the past yeah sure so I think um the earliest one I believe um the Carl Fisher Clubhouse um is a city-owned historic site uh we
also have Old City Hall in the Flamingo Park Historic District um that is a historic site uh fire station number two um is a historic site uh the Venetian
Causeway the Miami Beach Woman's Club uh Sunset Island Bridges 1 two and four uh the Bath Club on Collins Avenue that's privately owned uh Pineree Drive roadway
um which is a county-owned road the Flaggler Memorial and Monument Island city-owned property um the 28th Street Obelisk and Pumping Station uh we have the other two uh
city-owned properties are the North Beach Banshell and the Collins Canal which was our most recent designation um in terms of privately owned properties we have the International Inn uh 36 Ocean Drive 1600 Collins Avenue
um and as previously mentioned the Bath Club the rest of the sites are municipal owned any other questions for Debbie before we get to public uh before we get to disclosures and then public yeah I just have one question Debbie what would
be the additional advantages or disadvantages should the building be designated a historian okay and that's a great question and I'm I I'm glad to take the opportunity to clarify so Mr brlin is correct the Southshore Community Center is currently located
within a local historic district because of its location within the district it is currently under the jurisdiction of our historic preservation ordinance it is classified um in the historic district as
non-contributing that doesn't change the process in which alterations are reviewed um it does not change the process for demolition uh that remains the same um however when when this came
before the board several years ago there was a request to reclassify the building as contributing so a contributing building is one that contributes to the time sense and place of the historic
district this particular building um is an anomaly in the historic district in terms of our other contributing buildings um it was built later um in 1970 and later in 1975 it was added on
to and is a distinct style compared to the other styles that are contributing within the Flamingo Park Historic District therefore the board at that time did not believe that this building was consistent with the other buildings um
the other contributing buildings in the historic district and it remained um non-contributing as an individual site the criteria are quite different it doesn't need to relate entirely to its surrounding historic district
um and and standing on its own as an individual site staff does believe that this particular building um does meet the criteria it is again now for all the reasons I expressed earlier now creating a historic site would would not alter
any of the process that is currently in place for the non-contributing building so the review process for alterations the review process for demolition would be the same as it is today what it may do um is open up certain grant
opportunities um often there are there are specific grants for historic preservation that we we can apply for through the state of Florida um there are also certain uh building code relief for for historic buildings in terms of
um accessibility and flood plane uh requirements so the you know there are some benefits to the to the historic site designation but overall it wouldn't change how this property is reviewed all
city-owned buildings that are in either historic districts or individually designated um do shift jurisdiction over demolition to the mayor and city commission um that
would not change if we uh designate this as a historic site so the board is a recommending body in terms of demolition for city-owned properties ultimately it's a mayor and city commission decision if the demolition is is granted so I hope that answers your
question yes thank you and can I ask one more question is there any specific reason why this came to to us at this point in time since it was reviewed in the past and remain non contributing so is there any specific reason that's happening at
this point again so the the the mayor and city commission uh took this item up in terms of they I think they had several discussions about the Southshore Community Center and what would the future be in terms of the uses um
currently there's the daycare um there in the past have been a lot of other social programs in the building including a senior meals um program which I think during COVID uh went away um so the commission was discussing
ideas for programming and bringing back some of those social uh service uses um at the same time there there was the fire station proposal um for this particular site that was you know a
several year-long process in which this board did review a design option for a fire station that was ultimately approved went through the process um and then there was a desire on behalf of the mayor and city
commission to not put the fire station here to find an alternate location for the fire station and to really concentrate on how to reprogram and maintain um the existing Southshore Community Center so I think as part of those
discussions um it was uh Commissioner Tanya Bot who sponsored a resolution to refer a possible historic designation of this site to this board lindsay
yes so I had another question um so in the criteria for designation obviously there are the criteria A through H um but it talks about the property shall possess an integrity of location design setting
materials workmanship feeling or association and meet the criteria so can we talk about the integrity of location that like that that's not addressed in the staff report it's just the criteria that's addressed so can we talk about that a little bit sure so integrity of
location basically means has it been moved has the location since the time it was constructed changed so dramatically that it alters you know the human experience with the with the historic site um so we do believe the integrity
of location is is um satisfied um we have we have concerns about the integrity of some of the architectural features and and we've noted certain alterations including the enclosure of that second level um
the painting of the exposed concrete um and we wanted to point that out to the board because while um we do believe it still maintains architectural integrity the architectural integrity has been
compromised um and while we're not certain because I don't believe the city has explored this at this point that the building could be restored we're certainly hopeful that the building could be restored all right any any other questions for
for Debbie all right then I guess we go to board disclosures um anybody have anything to disclose anybody take a tour of the building the staff okay yeah all right i did too i mean I didn't take a tour but I've
visited it multiple times all right on my own now I think we can get to um to open the public hearing and Debbie do you want to manage that yes um anyone wishing to testify on Zoom please
raise your hand or please come forward please begin good morning i'm David McKenna i live at 1020 Meridian Avenue Miami Beach i'm sorry is Is this better yeah that's better okay my apologies again i Good morning i'm David McKenna i
live at 1020 Meridian Avenue Miami Beach 33139 and I am a retired architectural historian um I will say that I probably more than anyone in Miami Beach I have sat through every meeting related to the
Southshore Community Center even probably more than even Miss Tacket and I can say that in most of those meetings this building has not been even considered on its merit only because of
other things that were going on uh to wit the where to put the fire station so today I would ask you to really to follow the guidance of the historic preservation
um statutes and really consider this building on its own merit now the the while I'm not an attorney any reasonable person can understand the that when it says the preservation and conservation
of properties of historic architectural and archaeological merit in the city is a public policy and in addition to you uh exercising your evaluation I think you do also have a um obligation to
follow the public policy of the city um there Miss Tacket has gone through uh the evaluation criteria and I would uh actually say that from my uh professional standpoint and that uh the
criteria is they're fully satisfied for all but the one designation of historic on national register uh for uh time's sake I will not go through all those
aspects but I would like to uh note that uh um that two of the votes against the uh um the two deciding votes on the e uh earlier uh designation of this is
contributing did so because they said uh following Miss Tacket's guidance that um the building was constructed as a construction date was 1970 a as Miss Tacket notes and she uh
they're disagreed but uh there Jack Fanlass who was the chair at that moment and also uh a graduate of Colombia's historic preservation program noted that it is uh uh that the groundbreaking was
in 1969 and the usual date for construction that's why there is a ground date there is 1969 so that that was a factor that you should be
aware mr uh Stewart may I have just a few more minutes one one more minute please because we have a we have a time certain at 10 okay and we've already kind of started this process so okay uh there um there just to address then the
uh the uh and why I gave you photographs uh quickly the integrity of the historic structure if you will look at the uh picture there uh of the um their the painted uh concrete you can see the the
form still on there the other aspect is sea level rise and so forth that building by my tape measurement is 41 uh there inches above the street level now if you can see the pictures there if you
go through time say it was standards and and list those uh from there you have that so I would ask you today to follow the National Society of Architectural Historians the Florida Trust for Historic Preservation and our own lo
local organization and recognized this building which is already in the cannon of Morris Lapidis and is pictured here as the first building of his public buildings in Morris Lapis in the American thank
you David great great work thank you good morning i'm Mitch Novik uh I own a Henry Hoouser designed apartment building across the street at 610 Jefferson Avenue in
1967 there was a an auction of what was believed to be undevelopable swamp land in northeast Dade County uh at the end of the auction there were two biders remaining the Mus
family and the Sofur family and ultimately the Sofur family purchased that land known as Aventura today for $6 million the Sofers in turn hired Marus
Lapidotus and associates to plan a city uh in 1972 my family purchased a preconstruction winter's summer home in a development known as Villa Dorado uh
primarily three two three and some fourstory structures those structures are in the same vocabulary and language as the Southshore Community Center uh I would urge you to proceed with this uh
preliminary evaluation uh this building is important to our community and thank you for your time hi I'm Roger Gold at 1750 James Avenue i'm speaking for Miami Design Preservation League uh we enthusially
support the designation of 8336 Street Southshore Community Center as a historic site this significant structure designed by renowned architect Mars Lapidus has long served as a community gem and a physically recognized uh
resource for many many people uh we've worked collaboratively with shake with stakeholders over the years to preserve this important building and are pleased to see it possibly receiving formal recognition that really deserves as it for its exoric significance within our
district thank you thank you u Mr chair we have uh Johan Moore on Zoom good morning Johan good morning Johan do you swear or affirm the testimony you'll give in this proceeding is the truth all truth and nothing but
the truth yes I do thank you good morning board members uh good morning to staff uh thank you very much to uh Debbie Tacket for all of her efforts um and having seen this process through over the years um I want to just say a
few things first of all uh the community does appreciate uh the board's responsibilities to the integrity of their position uh and we would not in fact want to urge you to move forward if you do not truly believe
that this building is worthy of uh extra protection the community though is very supportive of this building and its future and we would urge that you go forward uh because we do believe it meets the criteria but also because as I
said in a letter uh to the board members uh it is a touchstone and an iconic object uh for our community uh reflecting its past and hopes for its future it will also as uh Debbie reminded us as it wends its way through
what is in fact going to be an ongoing tortuous uh process of approvals or considerations if the approval lands at commission and is approved uh then it will if you will tie the hands of a
future commission uh in ways that the community would find reassuring uh that a future commission will not suggest uh destroying this building uh and its meaning for our neighborhood in order to site other public infrastructure there
heaven forbid heavy impact uh infrastructure designating this building uh is consistent with Flamingo Park Neighborhood Association's sixth street overlay and its proposed protections and in fact the site integrity is assured uh
by that we're never going to end up with a freeway off-ramp uh right above the building for instance that went through my mind as as Debbie was making her comments um and I'm wondering if you misspoke about the fire station is it not fire station one our little fire
station that is the contributing one or am I am I unaware of some other uh uh striking structure that is fire station 2 so thank you very much uh to the board for your consideration i hope you will move this process forward uh and I'll
end my remarks with my appreciation for everyone's involvement thank you did you want to respond to Yes fire station number two um it is an individually uh designated structure
this is on um Dade Boulevard in 20 23rd Street um it's a really unique interesting building fire Station number one is a contributing building within the Flamingo Park District so any
other anybody else in the audience or online no okay so that uh closes public hearing and um any other So without I guess we had applicant rebuttal with the fire station
2 uh remark any Okay so now we it's our turn to kind of make comments about this and um ask each other questions or whatever okay okay i was on the historic preservation board when this site was approved for
the new fire station and many of the features of this building were being saved for the fire station and until um a new fire station is actually built this plan still could be built and I
therefore cannot vote to do anything more with this building until there's a fire station built then I might consider what's currently being asked okay school i um appreciate your comments and I
concur with you and I support that and secondly I think the cost associated with um refurbishing this building down the road will be astronomical considering the ground floor is several feet below flood elevation we would lose
the entire use of it so for that reason uh for a number of reasons other than that having worked with Morris Lapidus um and him expressing that this was probably his least favorite building that he's ever designed there's a reason
why it's called in my opinion brutalist design uh for a number of reasons in addition to that I would not support uh adding additional cost to studying this building any further so
with that I turn it over to you okay thank you thank you um anybody else have a comment that they'd like to make let's see elizabeth this is the only time you have okay all
right then if there aren't any more comments I will I will simply say that I'm supportive of this uh project being Yes what you have something yeah sorry oh I didn't know either one of Okay go please um so so one of the things um I
too am familiar with the project for a while and one of the things that I've been struggling with um and I actually asked our city attorney in advance of this um whether this is you know a mandatory or permissive right so um one of the things
is you know if it satisfies this and if the staff makes the recommendation are we required to do so and and my determination is no um and and because it is permissive um I also struggle with because you know I've seen the prior testimony about
the building itself and setting aside everything else that goes along with it um one of the things that I always struggled with was the fact that those upper like the upper section had been closed in the the gates had been dropped
and this the testimony that was given at that time hold on was um not feasible to retain the entire building for a municipal use it is incompatible with municipal use um it doesn't lend itself to use today with
our municipal uses and so that's the struggle that I have and setting all that aside um I don't see that there is anything that stands in the way of the city you know programming this building if that's
what they choose to do regardless of a historic designation um and so while I know that everybody wants us to look at it in a vacuum and not consider the reason it is before us today I think that we can't do that because there's nothing standing in the way of doing all
these things that the city has said at least for the last year if not more that they want to do um you know it it doesn't prevent the continuity of the building as is today um and it doesn't prevent you know future flood proofing it doesn't prevent
anything and obviously the building still stands under the jurisdiction of this board whether it is composed of us or others um in the future um but not only that because I went back to look at this I I do have significant concerns um
what five five four or five years ago when we added a water expert to this board four or five years specifically the commission said we need to take that in consideration we need to have a person that has those those
um those credentials to sit on this board because you know several rise is a significant problem and I actually have a video March 23rd 2024 of that entire section underwater last March underwater
i don't know what it looked like 3 weeks ago when we had this major event and you know those are more frequent more readily occurring and so if kind of talking this through right you know and and I've labored over this a lot um if I think one of the discussions or one of
the suggestions in the December 17th meeting was if we like moving forward we could if you will vacate the first floor there's I know there's a term for that I'm probably not using the right word but you know take the first floor out make that breezeway if you will open and
utilize just the second floor you know are we then further bastardizing this building the uses that it was intended for and the reason why the argument is being made for it being designated historic in the first place um so those
are kind of those are my concerns and and those are my comments um like I said I wasn't here in December so my comments are a little more in-depth um but uh you know those are those are my thoughts on this great thank you Elizabeth yes i didn't want to disappoint you not having
an opinion yes no no i mean I think there is a big struggle inside me between saying yes or no and mainly because uh I think there is um yes I understand the value of the building and its connection to Maril
Lapus and the style but one thing that comes to my mind often is that we have limited resources and we have a list of buildings that in the future would be even more threatened by climatic changes and where do we put our resources and I
hate to say it's like we have to choose which buildings to preserve and which not because I don't think we'll have the means to preserve everything that we may deem historically or architectural significant in the city so uh the more we tie buildings to strings at this
point now more complicated it gets in the future and then the resources we may be more wisely spreading throughout other buildings that may merit more than this one uh what may not be available at that point so that's where my my mind
keeps going back and forth between the yes or no okay thank you and I was I was going to say that um uh I the first finished floor i bet if you went back to your video you would see the first finished floor was dry at that time during that
the first finished floor not the road the road because the this I I would just argue that the I believe it's 40 inches above the the road but this but be that as it may I think we have an opportunity here i understand all of your opinions i
respect them i think we have an opportunity to um to show leadership in the way we are thinking about our our historic fabric and that we can um take this building on for all of the challenges it has i I was at Lincoln I
was on Lincoln Road when Morris Lapidus was there and he and we were trying to point out things that were going to be destroyed uh beautiful features of Lincoln Roy the road that were going to be destroyed in the mid '90s and Morris came by and said let him go let him go I've got this project I'm I'm going to
be taking on this new project so um I understand he didn't have a great deal of he let's just say he wasn't a preservationist and he had he had favorites at different times his favorite building was probably his next building like most architects um or the one he's working on but I
would just say that um I I understand the challenges with this building i do think we have an opportunity to be leaders in the understanding of where are where historic preservation's going in not only in our city but in our country and around the world and that
the preservation of concrete buildings of this era is the next wave and we will see it i I know my students look at these buildings for them they're they might as well be the pyramids in Egypt um and you know I'm just saying that we
um whatever this board decides obviously we'll we'll decide together and um but I would encourage us to think I also think that this designation is not the is not so much a a shackle on the building as it is uh showing an opportunity for
buildings to be designated because we're there are many many historic buildings that are contributing that are designated that will also need to be changed this we will have to be moving forward with a lot of uh resiliency efforts understanding how buildings
respond to climate change and you know not every and and many of the buildings that we already have designated already have this distinction are are also going to need to be addressed it's not that this is I I consider this to be more kind of an elevation of a moment in in
Miami Beach's history rather than a like a a ball and chain on the So yes go ahead so I just want to respond to that and and I think um again it goes back to the concerns I have no one's here asking us to demolish the building right i mean
there no one's saying don't preserve it the question is whether or not we designate it individually and I mean I literally wrote this down in quotes you know one of our public comments said "This will tie the hands of future people." So you said "Don't look at it as a shackle but that's what but that's
what the public expects this to be." And so that that I mean that that's that's kind of my concern right um and and and again you know I'm just not sure that's the right way to look at this at at what we're voting on let's just say what we're voting on we're voting on the
ability to learn more about this building we're not voting on this building being preserved in in you know aspect forever yes and no i mean looking back at prior instances of when they were looking at designated buildings whether contributing or whether um
designating them as individual historic sites I I feel like you had more information at this stage you know and because by the time the report is prepared it's kind of fa like here's the report give us a thumbs up okay we're going to move forward and then you know
um so I honestly hoped I was like okay we've continued this I wasn't here last time I've watched it i hoped to get more information today which I think was what was asked by the board members you know and and it hasn't been presented
so but we have had the opportunity each of us to visit the building and I say that was a real eye openener for me i had never been to the building i'd never seen that many of the interiors are really well preserved i mean sadly you know neglect is a great pres preserver so it was uh um many I was really
surprised by how the building had been um kept in its original in its configuration after the auditorium space was put was added and um was you know impressed by the the landscape the trees and the the I think
some of the original landscape might still be in there and it's just remarkable because the planters it has are the types of things we're going to need to see more of in our city i'm not I understand you guys are going to vote vote the way you feel you need to do i just for the for the record I just wanted to just say that I think the
building has a lot of merits to it and it's um and um maybe this will come back but um yes Debbie did you want to add something yeah I just wanted to um really quickly provide a little bit of additional information um the fire
station the new fire station came up as a question um the city is moving forward with the design in the uh preliminary design phase currently for that uh new fire station the schedule we are
currently estimating that that would be coming before the board by the end of this year so that is moving forward and there will be an application before this board likely um at the end of this year so I just wanted to clarify
um that it's not like we're still um you know reviewing alternate sites and and haven't gone through that process of investing a significant amount of resources to redesign the fire station for a new location yes Debbie but we
already approved this as a fire station so another plan comes through we could approve for a fire station and it could be shot down again until there's a shovel in the ground and the fire station is started i personally cannot vote for anything on this property because there is an approved plan for a
fire station and until there is a shovel in the ground in another situation my hands are tied okay Elizabeth you're still red do you have something else to say no I was just going to ask Abby if what are the plans
the city plans to improve or increase the use of the building so currently um the city is um I think pretty far along in the process of reestablishing the senior lunch
um program that we have so that again that was a previous program in the space it had left um but that is imminently being reestablished so that's great um that also hearkens back to the original use
of the site which was for our senior community um really the most vulnerable and at need um population that we had specifically in the 1970s um but even now we're we're seeing a a lot of need in that community um the daycare which
is currently in the space is is proposed to continue in that space there have been several um outreach community meetings um with the neighborhood to discuss other possible uses i think you
know the the senior lunch is a great use given the vulnerability of the site this is not going to be you know a a municipal office that has a lot of technical equipment that everything needs to be raised um everything needs to be you know entirely secured so I I
do think the city is creatively looking at programming um the the space and um from what I've been uh advised of all of these uses are actually uh quite consistent with the original intent of the building which
was to serve as community for the underserved um populations in our in our city okay so a logistics question because just uh from what I'm hearing there might not be um the votes to to pass
this but um do you recommend a a straw poll or do you recommend a mo just taking a motion um and if so where how would that uh So we need uh four votes of this um board to move forward with
the designation report you could um make a motion to either direct us to to prepare the report or not um you could also continue the item if there is some more specific information you would like us to bring back
go ahead you you also have a a third option which would be to vote not to direct staff to proceed with the formal designation so this is just to just to frame this um the the the item is before you on a on a preliminary evaluation
this is not the uh the formal quasa judicial uh hearing that would be required for the HPB to to approve the designation um subject to further action by the planning board and city commission this is that initial step of do we want to
schedule the formal uh uh designation for for hearing in the first place so um so you as your three options are to to to vote to direct staff to prepare the formal report and schedule the public
hearing um you could if you if you uh wanted specific information as Debbie um as Debbie laid out you could continue this with specific direction or you could take a vote not to move forward with formal report
yes please ask questions Nick so that formal report would that include the ability to restore the building like Debbie said that we're not sure if they could be restored to its original shape and form or that report would not go to that
length i I think the report would do a um a complete analysis of of whether the the structure meets the criteria for for designation um Debbie I would defer to you on whether that would include the
ability to fully restore the existing building um it's something we could certainly explore uh with our uh facilities management and and potentially our capital improvement projects office to
see um you know what the feasibility is um I do I did just get a little bit more information about the programming so I think currently we're also looking at a a day camp for children in the in the
neighborhood um some additional service-based uses um for for children and women um so I I don't know what the plan would be for renovation of the
building um whether or not some of these areas would need to be renovated before these new uses uh go in I would assume there needs to be some renovation um so between now and when we prepare the designation report I think we would have
um because those those uses are imminently going to be occupying the building i think between now and the time we brought the formal historic designation report we would have a lot more information about uh potential renovation of the building and what could be done to to restore certain
components of the building and I I also have a question about um if if this board um determines that they're not going to ask staff to continue with the designation report is it possible for the commission to send this back to us
when maybe when we're a full board again or is it does that mean that if you said it's not it is possible i think Nick G yeah because it it would be different if it were a a semi-judicial decision um
that was decided in you know what I'm saying is Debbie is there a a waiting period if um for a for for an order for an individual approval yeah uh and this is
I think that that waiting period only applies to the denial uh with prejudice of of an application or the denial of an ordinance text amendment um by the city commission and and this is neither of those this is a
preliminary evaluation so I do believe it it could you know be re-referred um at some point in the future and we could discuss it again right okay um or we could continue the application
but we'd have we'd have to continue it with um with recommendations of what we need to see uh before it's Yeah I'm sorry i didn't mean I'd like to make a motion we'll see if there's a second i'd like to make a motion that we do not move this designation report forward at
this time i'll second that motion okay um let me see let me call the role uh Miss Kargo no Miss Levelville the motion again is what the motion is
to uh is to is to deny it well the motion is not to move forward with a formal designation so a a at this time so a yes vote means do not move forward with
formal designation with asking the report so then we can hold a qu I mean this where are we step one step two I forget what it's called the right now the board yeah we're step two is on a preliminary evaluation
report the next step would be to direct staff to prepare a formal designation report the motion on the table is not to move forward with the formal designation report i had another question but we've now have a motion on the table and I've been asked to vote on this yeah I think we
have a motion in a second we can't I don't think we're We are in the middle of a roll call right um no mr meyer yes mr stewart I think we should we should ask you to
designate it so I'm saying no it's just weird it's counterintuitive because you say no to say yes but Okay so technically that motion failed the motion failed no oh Mr brereslin yes sorry so you have
three nos two yeses so did we finish the roll call yes yep so three members voted against the motion the motion which was to say no the motion fails yeah okay can I ask a qu I have a question okay perfect time
for a question um so I'm working through this um talked about whether or not this could be brought back before at this stage if we don't have the quasa judicial hearing
um what is the process of the quasi judicial hearing i I know what happens if if we approve this full board or not um if we if it isn't approved at the quasi judicial hearing then what because last time I think someone asked if there was a room for appeal
from this decision and I think the answer was no but from the quasi judicial hearing is it is it an appeals process or like what does that look like i'm just curious if the board voted it voted against it if the board um if the board votes today to
hold to to direct staff to prepare the formal designation report and the the uh a formal designation hearing is scheduled which would require 30-day mail notice posting and and uh and newspaper online notice um and then
after that is is the question after that hearing if the HPB denies the designation request then the designation could not move forward on designations um you are not advisory your approval is required for the designation to proceed
but normally if an applicant sought a decision from us and we made a decision they would have an appeals process would the applicant in this case the city have an appeals process should this board choose not to I mean nor that would go to the
commission so I'm just you know how does that work i'm trying to understand the practical reality of all this it's a it's a it's a very it's a good question um and if the board votes today to schedule the formal designation
hearing um we can we'll look at that in advance of the formal designation hearing okay so um any advice on on where to go from here uh you could consider uh you could entertain Mr chairman a a
different motion it could either be a motion to direct staff to prepare a formal designation report it could be a motion to continue uh with a request for more information and I would if that is where the board is heading I would ask that you be very specific about what you're looking for exactly so any motion
we need four yes votes correct three no four four i believe to direct staff to prepare a formal designation report you need four affirmative votes yeah i think we're stuck but do you want to try it
and what if you're stuck Nick and with a with a shortboard you're stuck you can't get four votes um is there a is there a kind of default that the that the item is just deferred what without instructions what I would
say is um I would what I would say is if there is a board member inclined to make a motion let's let's um let's let's hear that motion see if there's a second and then we'll we'll we'll take this one step at a time waiting for a full board that's what I was wondering but I I
don't know i mean you're not asking for anything additional you're just asking for a full board that's possible i wasn't sure whether that's possible i think I think if it's Did you hear what Ray's request was i'm sorry no I did not
would you like to yes okay it's uh he was wondering whether the whether the we could continue this until we have a full board and not and with so that's not going with any of the options you had because your continuing option was with with specific needing more specific
information i guess the specific information would be who's on like who are the the board members i think you can continue you could continue the um the the discussion to um to to the next month's meeting uh the the city
commission uh will be will be meeting uh tomorrow so an appointment could be made tomorrow for one of the the two vacancies that that the uh that are that that currently exist so if you wanted to to wait until you had um uh a a fully
constituted board I think that's Yeah that's appropriate that's appropriate yes Lindsay so I I want to see two things here um one I think it's interesting i was looking at some of the other um individually designated sites and typically it's a unanimous vote that
everybody wants to send it to be to to to for designation or sorry from this stage from state step two to step three it's typically unanimous and and clearly we're divided there and I understand why and and I get it um for me um to my
fellow board members um and based on what Nick has told me um you know the the report would provide us with information um and that would move us to some
finality whereas I am concerned if we continue this we're kicking the can down the road if we um if we if we vote no today Ray just so you know I mean what my my struggle with not supporting your motion doesn't
necessarily it's not on the merits of like the application itself but on does that just shift it down to then it's brought back before us again next month or the month after that or something to that effect because as Debbie said the time frame um for that you know again
it's kicking can down the road whereas the decision on the report itself self um would be a final decision and so that's the struggle that I have my concern about this building is you know
a previous historic preservation board which I was on approved a firehouse in this location the city spent millions of dollars on the plan and everything and a year later all of a sudden a commissioner says "Oh wait a second we don't want a fire station there let's
try and and make it a historic building." and build a fire station someplace else the fire station was approved back in 2017 and we still don't know where it's really going to go until a shovel goes in the ground because there's a lot of people that are upset
with where it's currently going to go overlooking the the track uh uh in Flamingo Park so to me this location is still a viable option and I can't vote for anything relative to this building until a fire station is
built i don't care how long it takes i don't care how many more times people come to the board my vote will always be no until something is done because we as the taxpayers have spent an inordinate amount of money already and we don't
have a fire station so until we do this building is still on the on the table so I'm I'm with you on that um I get that my point is is that if we vote for them to bring us back a report you could spend more money
and and and right now it's protected already it's protected in in the neighborhood that it's in it's in a historic district it's got as much protection as the Baz Museum has and and you know to me it doesn't need anymore at this point in time okay and that's
the reason I made the motion that I made right okay lindsay did that help you at all do you want to make a motion or to help us move forward uh I I don't I don't know that I can make a
motion that's going to help us move forward that's the struggle well the there's a motion that we could do and Rey said he would be amendable to it that's to continue until we have a fuller board where we have more voices at the table to address this problem i I think we're suffering from being a short
board and a an divided opinion i think that's the only motion that will move us forward the what that will move us forward okay i think that's so I'll make a motion to move the item forward until we have a full board to continue it until we
continue until we have a board and Nick that's acceptable so this would be a motion to continue the preliminary evaluation um I would recommend including a date certain in your motion um and just to clarify we have two seats
that are currently vacant there are on tomorrow's commission agenda at least one seat up for potential reappoint i think more likely uh you know to fill the two seats it would likely be at the May commission
meeting um I can't say that for sure but I would think the safer route would be to continue it until after the May city commission meeting which would then be our June 17th um HPB meeting here's my question
talking about kicking the can down the road i honestly would rather continue it to May because if you have an extra person on here and and they're going to vote to do whatever we need to do then that moves us to towards finality no because if that one person says no we'll
be three and three not necessarily someone could change their vote between now and then i know i understand but we may potentially be still stuck so I mean then we're still stuck and we move it to June that's my point we we could be stuck but I think we'd be stuck with a full if we were stuck with a full board we'd have a more complete understanding
of what of where we stand and where the new you know it's fair no I was just saying but we continue it to May we hear it you know and if if we're stuck June you did you say uh did you say date oh Debbie was were you accepting Debbie's date i think June is a safe one
another month won't make a difference and we don't have to revisit either one is fine uh May or June 17th but in if you want a full board I think we're more likely to have that at the June meeting i just I would like to say something
yeah i would like to say a couple of things there it just seems to me like complete waste of time to continue this item if this city has spent millions of dollars already developing plans for a fire station at this location now we've gone
ahead and spent another $500,000 on a consultant to tell us whether it's feasible to build a fire station at Flamingo Park where to me that's absolutely it is not why are we continuing this item asking the city to
allocate more resources to doing more studies when at the end of the day we could go back to the original plan what seven eight years ago is that what it is no more like 10 and just put it to bed thank you Haskell i I understand your
frustration mine is to get us out of this item this morning by by time certain which didn't happen and I I apologize to all of you who are here so um this is one way to do it it's one way for us to just get out of this particular deadlock that we will not
otherwise be able to leave and there's a motion uh on the on the table to continue it until June with no further information so no further research on the part of the the staff um until we have a full board and there's uh I don't
know if there will be a second to that but so I'm just going to review the the motion so my motion is to move this item to the June meeting and no further studies or additional information are required is there a second
no is there a friendly amendment or an unfriendly amendment without a second this was your I thought this was your idea to wait until we have a full board i know your I know your idea yeah it's sort of sad if we're going to be deadlocked on this for the rest of the
day um Lindsay did you have um a a suggestion would you vote for it if it were May i mean that was my friendly amendment that it be made so that we I mean move this so my again I go back to my point is to bring it to a
finality whatever that may be um and and we can't get there if we're just right delaying um so you would Elizabeth would you accept a friendly amendment to May instead of June
it might i don't know we have we'll vote at least we'll have a vote yeah so I will accept the Lindses friendly amendment to meet to move to the uh May meeting to push to push this down to just wait so we can get out of this for now
without further work uh so we have a a second a first and a second did you second it okay yes I would second it with the minute i'm sorry that was really loud and Mr chairman just to be clear on a motion to
continue yes you only need a majority of the members present so that would be three votes okay perfect we should do a roll call do a roll call please okay uh Mr meyer no mr brereslin yes miss Levelvel yes miss
Carargo yes mr stewart yes okay the application has continued to the May 13th meeting okay um Michael do you need to run this or can this Can you move this over there or do I need to
sit there um okay let's move on to our next application uh we're a few minutes behind schedule this is HPB 240638 1210 Michigan Avenue an application has been filed requesting a
certificate of appropriateness for the total demolition of the existing single family home and the construction of a new single family home um this is a particular uh one of our few uh single family uh areas located
within a historic district uh this is actually a contributing building within the Flamingo Park Historic District it was constructed in 1940 uh and designed by architect Albert Annis um you know during our initial meetings
with staff we we did express some uh serious concern regarding the demolition of a building that while has you know has been had some minor alterations and has been added on to over the years um remains substantially intact from its
original design um after uh discussing this at length with the applicant uh the applicant has uh submitted a uh structural condition assessment report um this was a a rather
eyeopening and alarming report as it did conclude um Yousef Hashim uh structural engineer concluded it is an imminent danger of collapse as it lacks any lateral support proper design and construction when
portions of it were constructed so this is not necessarily an issue of of demolition by neglect um rather than a an issue of the building's initial construction
um is is in part causing the severe structural deterioration of the building it goes on to say that the current uh decay conditions of the structural member deem it unstable to support lateral uh to support load conditions of
its current permitted use um at that point um staff did accept those findings uh we uh reviewed all of the structural engineering reports we um
we are concerned about the potential uh life safety issues of retaining the existing house um so we are supportive of the request for total demolition uh if it were possible to retain and restore the house
uh even a portion of the home a significant amount of reconstruction would be required um that would uh leave practically no original materials um staff is not supportive of the reconstruction we do
not believe um an accurate reconstruction will be possible due to um the home being nearly 4 feet below the required um base flood elevation um second uh Miami Beach does
have a rich evolution of architectural styles uh we do believe that a new contemporary home is the most appropriate in this particular instance um staff is supportive of the proposed contemporary design language of the new
home um specifically we uh worked with the applicant to ensure that the massing of the home was compatible with the adjacent neighbors um and that required a significant front yard setback if you
look at the development pattern of single family homes in this neighborhood they're all set back approximately 50 ft which is um between uh 20 and 30 feet more set back than is
actually required the initial design comp concepts we saw had the the single family home coming much further to the street um and so we want to uh congratulate the architect for really understanding how important that development pattern in this home in this
neighborhood is and for setting the back um sign setting the the home back significantly and also breaking up uh the massing they the massing does take inspiration from the historical
uh home and the massing of the historical home with a uh lower portion um toward the street and a a setback of further setback for the taller portion of the
home um staff would note that this is currently um being proposed as an understory home understory homes are permitted within all single family districts um and has a a much more resilient
design um than some of the elevated uh yard elevated homes and we do believe that the understory um will be more beneficial to its adjacent neighbors as the yard will not need to be raised nearly as high um
which would you know significantly help uh runoff water runoff staff does have a a few concerns uh regarding the design of the home particularly along the uh side elevation facing uh the park um we
would ask the applicant to break this up a little bit more um especially the portion that projects within that 50-foot setback um we have several recommendations of how that can be done uh the applicant I believe has reviewed
these recommendations and did send staff um an alternate concept uh which we were able to quickly review yesterday we do believe this satisfies staff's conditions our recommended conditions um and are generally supportive of that and
that I think will be part of their presentation today um I am available for any questions that's all I have great thank you very much any questions for Debbie on the application no no okay
um well welcome thank you Mr chairman board member staff Michael Larkin 200 South Biscane Boulevard here representing Andrew Morlli the applicant uh can you pull the presentation please sure is it up yet no
one second i don't have any good jokes so Michael you're usually really good in these moments okay uh next slide so again I'm here representing Andrew Mlly the owner i'm with the architect Ralph Cho our landscape
architect Chris Cowie our structural engineer Ysef Hack and my colleague um Michael Yiannopoulos next slide so as you all can see the home is situated at the intersection of Michigan Avenue and 12th Street immediately west of Palingo
Park next slide as you can also see these photos are taken of different uh single family homes surrounding neighborhood debbiey's right uh there aren't many single family home districts you know there's Palm View there's this one and there's Alto
Delmare uh next slide we are here today requesting to exhibit appropriateness for demolition and design next slide originally built in 1940 Arctic was Albert Anis it's a there was a one-story addition added to the home with a flat roof in 1982 the
addition required the demolition and reconfiguration of the two rear corner windows on the first floor original residence next slide another view of it the once addition with the flat roof again was added in 82 um but as you can see this is more the 82 edition is
shaded in yellow and the original residence is to the right next slide this are these are current photos of the existing home one taken from Michigan Avenue the other from 12th Street next slide with regard to the structural assessment we had two independent
engineers analyze the home calc engineering inspected the home provided concrete compressive strength testing using core samples did a structural analysis and calculations use firm conducted a visual inspection of the home's exterior and interior and analyzed the prior testing both analyses
reached the same conclusion the home does not comply with current building codes which is not so surprising but the more alarming conclusion is the structural integrity severely compromised and beyond repair with that I'd like to turn it over to Yousef and he's going to walk you through the
findings of his report good morning uh my name is Yousef Hashim structural engineer 99 Northwest 27th Avenue uh we uh we went and inspected the property and uh what we found was
alarming more than anything is the the the the level of the first floor is so much below flood elevation and uh the continuous flooding of the crawl space
and the touching of the water to the to the framing of the house had damaged it uh the stem walls and the foundations uh are also in bad shape and we saw evidence of corrosion evidence of uh
rebars and concrete sping showing up um so we uh were asked uh well what can we do to the house can we lift it uh to trying to save it uh going through the analysis of the structural members uh
the lack of reinforcements in the masonry uh the lack of strapping on the floors and the roofs uh we do not feel comfortable in lifting the house because we feel that we will further damage the structure more than trying to help it by
elevating it so that's why uh we had recommended that you know we we cannot really do any of that recommended demolition good morning Ralph Chof architect CHO Levy Fisherman offices in Miami and
Tampa so I want to talk about two things i want to talk about the house itself and then I want to talk about uh the new proposed design as far as the house itself the reason the structure is so damaged right now this residence was built with spread footings this uh area
and all of Miami Beach actually requires a deep foundation which is piling grade beam because it's on spread footings the house was sinking and sinking and lately it's been sinking at an alarming rate so that's number one number two it's about 4 feet below the the required FEMA base
flood and because it's 4 feet every time there's a heavy rain it floods inside the house and so now you have these the issue of the structure and the flood which makes uh living there untenable the residents uh did an extensive re renovation in the 1990s including impact
resistant windows and such so the house has not been under neglect at all this is the house that the owner grew up in and he'd like to uh reinhabit this location with the new proposed design you can't add or you can't lift this
house because architecturally if you have this style home on stilts it just doesn't go it's not the type of home that would would do that so we've designed a a residence with a with a new understory and we set the residence back 42 feet from Michigan Avenue the
allowable setback for one story is 20 feet but when we met with planning um uh they wanted us to be in in sync with the homes next door and the adjacent residences so we set back the residence 42 ft from
Michigan um we then added design features uh of the existing residence to the new design for instance we have a step back design if we can go to the exterior renderings there you go uh we have a step back design uh on Michigan
Avenue bringing the taller uh portion uh back away from Michigan and this is the same exact design language that was used by the existing house we also have corner windows we added corner windows we added medallions uh to the building
which we are removing off the existing residence um and we're adding to it um as well there's going to be a new placard uh made uh with the uh elevation of the existing residence and a brief history that's going to be located in um
in the in the entry gate um the existing residence also does not meet today's standards for setback uh dimensions and the new residence does it sets back a lot more than the existing residence um
so this is uh a view from uh 12th uh street and you could see it's mostly glass and the reason for that is to lighten up the elevation and uh uh let it play well with the the park across the street um I want to I want to bring
up uh something about the height uh there's a new code that the the revised code just came out and the revised code states that the FEMA based flood you take the the elevation of the house maximum from FEMA base flood which is eight in this case 8 ft above mean sea
level and you can go five feet above eight so you take your your heights from there so you take your height from plus 13 above mean sea level the height allowed this is the most restrictive uh designation in
RS4 as far as residential height of all the residential areas this area is the most restrictive so you're allowed to go 31 feet above the FEMA plus 5 that puts us at 44 feet above mean sea level so uh doesn't mean the house is
44t tall it just puts us at 44t above mean sea level the way this residence was designed we are at 40.5 feet above mean sea level so we are at three and a half feet below where we can technically be the reason for the
new code is uh planning very wisely uh said well we need understory homes we're going to allow them in the city of Miami Beach uh because of the global warming and the flooding issues that uh are occurring here
so they want the understories to be usable understories thus they raised the height that these uh residents could be we stuck with the old code on this and so now the height of our understory is
about 8 feet uh grade to ceiling and then uh grade to finish the first floor is 10 ft so we are literally 3 and 1/2 ft below where we can be on this residence so I want to
address that because it's important that we do that in the understory uh discussion uh because this is the new wave of Miami Beach uh these will be the historic homes in the future um this is because of uh weather conditions global
warming and this is what uh exactly what you'll be seeing all around again this area has the most restrictive heights uh in u in the city of Miami Beach um in today's world we can't live with 8ft high ceilings so we're a little bit
higher than that so I'm going to turn it over to Michael michael have have I So I think that's all Mr chairman board members i would like to reserve some time for rebuttal and hear questions and comments from the board uh great thank you very much
um I want to know if there are questions for the applicants about anything that they presented right no none no none no questions i had a couple
questions uh for the applicants um so first of all thank you for it was quite a it it's a lot to cover and um um I just had a a couple questions about how how you go about um kind of determining the structural integrity maybe this is a
use of question how you like how did you test what test did you use to understand the the concrete strength that was mentioned specifically that that was I'm sorry that was done by the other engineer calc engineering they've done concrete test compression testing the compression testing they took core
samples sent them to the lab got compression testing back i just didn't see any of that in the in any of the It's in the appendix of It's in the appendix of the calculus all right and um I was also wondering how you know
this that the spread footings are sinking i figured that was something you would have detected as a structural engineer did you do LAR dete LAR measurements or what were they ra Ralph mentioned that yes there there were you know there were I we didn't do we didn't
do lighter but what we saw you see the cracking in the walls when you have ladder cracking in the masonry walls that's indicative of settlement on the in the foundations and that's how was it so it was just uneven settlement rather than the whole building sinking because
that's been a topic that we've been looking at in tall buildings but I was wondering if you noticed it in this building i I follow you on that and it's actually it's preferable to have the whole structure settle at the same time yes because that doesn't put too stress
on structural members but that didn't happen satellite usually they use satellite data so I was wondering which satellites you guys use correct differential settlement is the problem okay so all right and um I just wanted to clarify one thing um you talked about
mean sea level did you just mean NGVD yeah he like NGVD0 is what you'reing perfect okay um and then the last thing the placard i wasn't sure I saw that but you mentioned a placard with history of the history of the building and then where was that going to be located it's
um if you look at the drawings it's actually I must have missed it okay so it's going to be located right next to the front entry which is going to be on 12th Street and it's going to be a whole placard of of the uh history of the house perfect okay all right those are my questions any questions
um to the structural engineering to Ralph ralph you had said that u the building was sinking at an alarming rate how do you know that i know that because and and maybe I misspoke when I said alarming but it really is definitely sinking uh there's unevenness and
there's cracking on the walls on the ceilings um there's different uh uh types of cracking at the rear of the residence and then the front the new found the new addition is also sinking it has severe cracking as well uh so um
that that's my in my opinion as an architect and you're a structural engineer maybe you can refute or verify what I'm saying uh this area requires deep foundations pile and grade beam and when I got the original drawings of the residents we we're not much to go on
but luckily we had the structural drawings uh the um the foundation drawings and it spread footings right the alarming issue would be differential uh settlement right one level sinking differently than the other correct but unless you have historical data you
can't determine how fast this is sinking or where whether it's sinking at all relative to 5 years ago or 10 years ago but you can determine that the s the sinking and the cracking is fairly severe on this residence it's it's really really bad
i will debate that with you but that's an issue that we can discuss later on what I want to talk about is you bringing up this issue of the height of the building what is the relative height of this structure to adjacent homes in the
neighborhood how much taller is it you know I did not make do a study of the adjacent homes but you can never compare this this is comparing apples with oranges you have homes that were built with 8 foot ceilings built on grade built below uh FEMA standards and now
you have a residence that has an understory and it has two floors above it so of course it's going to be higher than uh it's not going to be that much higher than the adjacent residence because that residence was I guess built before there was a DRB
because it's it's just this big twotory block uh tower that that exists there this um the residence we designed cannot uh again you can't compare it with the existing residences this is not uh in
the same period as what was designed and it's uh it's again with the new codes and with global warming that we have understories that the existing residences do not have understories the reason I bring this up is I I'm
beginning to see a trend throughout the city where you have these existing homes and um home new homeowners developers are coming in and building these monstrous homes adjacent to existing homes and it's just completely out of character
out of sync the way based on your numbers the last floor is I think 13t no tall how tall is the top floor uh the top floor is uh 12 feet to roof and the first floor is 10 um 12T floor uh floor
and the understory is grade to first floor 10 ft we allow two feet for the structure ralph I think the design is beautiful my concern again is how it impacts the neighborhood and what kind of a trend are we setting for future
homes in the neighborhood and future homes in Miami Beach where the new homes are towering over existing homes and look completely out of sight i I I I have to uh I don't disagree with you Haskell i I don't disagree with you at
all i've known you a long time um as a matter of fact like I told you before you're the person that got me to stop smoking five years ago so um you can't compare uh what's existing to what's new i mean it's all
new standards all new uh elevations we now talk about FEMA based flood plus and before uh this you you did not build to a FEMA code so this uh unfortunately the residence is exist that's existing is
four feet below what is required by FEMA actually a lot more than four feet because now it's FEMA used to be plus one now it's FEMA plus two so it's getting worse and worse you know so I just want to
reiterate variance right just wait we're not asking for any variances or waiverss here I just want to reiterate I I like the design I just want you to be sensitive to the neighborhood where you're building a number of homes in our area i just want you to be sensitive to
the homes in the surrounding area as to these towering mansions and how they come well Pas one of the reasons is the the home we designed is three and a half ft below what I could have actually designed there to meet code so we're three and a half feet below already um
so we are being as sensitive as possible but this is a new architecture this is a new era uh unfortunately the homes that were there right now are just they just don't work and they're structurally uh becoming a little bit unsound but I
can't say that for all all the residences i can tell you this through the chair yes Lindsay um just on so the papers that you delivered today I guess were sent to staff last night on um
A04D because it's on paper I can't bring it up online and zoom in could you tell us what those elevations are on the left hand side that might help with this discussion well I can tell you by heart what they are that works just tell so I can write them down that's all from
grade to the top of the first livable floor is 10 ft okay from the top of the first livable floor to the top of the second livable floor is 12 feet from the top of the second livable floor to the
roof top of roof is another 12 feet we allow two feet in each floor for the structure the inside ceilings will be dropped an additional foot not everywhere but where there's mechanical and electrical clashing especially where there's air
conditioning that blows out into the more major areas which are on the perimeter so those will be dropped an additional foot but that's those are so where we are allowed to be above mean sea level or NGVD as as chair uh
stated we could be at 44 feet above mean sea level or plus 44 NGVD we are at plus 40.5 NGVD so we're already three and a half feet lower than where we could be with the new code
thank you did you understand or I did thank you i got the answer the 40 NGBD which was what I was looking for thank you thank you and and I noticed when you put the slides up that you had one that went through the uh staff recommendations did you Yeah can you do
that because I was that was my question yes okay there we go so one of the recommendations was that uh the front wall uh be uh scaled down uh to pedestrian height that it's pedestrian
friendly and be made more transparent and we did that uh we also incorporated the relief panels that are existing in the residence now we're going to take them off and we're going to uh incorporate it into the building uh as
well we have incorporated corner windows to ma match the corner windows that were in the existing building i'd like to state something regarding the incorporation of the relief panels i was speaking to to Debbie uh before this
hearing and we could actually instead of putting them there on the building we could actually put them with uh mixed in with the tile uh floor leading into the house so they're like those bricks that commemorate people these will
commemorate the existing house on the floor so we can keep going okay this is the before and then can you just do the before to the one slide you just finished just quickly you Okay so that's it right now and then because these are images are
slightly different than the ones that are in my packet so okay perfect all right that's before this is the view from Michigan and we added corner windows uh because
the existing residence has windows on the corners it toward this elevation as well and we just uh mimicked them in the modern style here uh we also that's right we relocated the balcony uh where you see the big square there was a balcony and
we relocated uh that balcony um here is uh before this is just the addition of a placard uh where I don't know actually I would probably put that placard mixed in with the if we do it on the walk in the front that's where I
would put it probably put no one no one will see that elevation this is uh the result of the final product okay great thank you i think I think there's a lot of movement here there's a lot of interest in the architecture i think it'll go
nicely with the neighborhood and anything incompatible with anything that's built here in the future it's not a white box as people call it uh could you please go over the volutric study that you mentioned you kind of follow the volumes of the existing house
and tried to use that as inspiration for what you did can you elaborate on I don't know about the volumes but what we did the massing I mean I I'm just trying to reproduce what you said and maybe I'm Can we go to the slide uh that shows the existing residents in the
front on Michigan no uhhuh right there if you look at the bottom right uh and you can even see it maybe in the top one as well you see how the house is uh lower in the front and it steps back
toward back um this is exactly what we're doing here we're lower in the front now go to the uh go to our rendering there okay no no you pass there you go same thing here so we're lower in the front and we're
bigger in the back which makes it even more of a a setback effect it it it really relieves your vision from Michigan Avenue how about on 12th Street do you have any more insights on that study of the
elevation facing 12th Street um the other street right you have It's 12th no yes michigan or No so this is the one you showed me was on Michigan so I'm Yes that's the 12th Street right how does that relate to the existing home and
your well desire how the only relationships we have here is you do see the step back on the right side of the rendering which is and then you also see the lineality of the uh of the slabs for the roof and the floors if you look at the residence
itself the existing residence we have linear elements that you can turn to the existing residence okay any any side the side we have it there you go that's that's okay you this is kind of covered up you see some linear elements to that
so we're just trying to do the modern version of that so all right any other questions for the applicant i don't have the plans in front of me for some reason it's not in my package but are you encroaching on any of the
existing setbacks no uh as a matter of fact we're asking for no variances and no waiverss there you go there are the plans all right um so any response to the questions that
you wanted to overall are you good no Mr chairman I think our team's done a good job responding to board members questions and let's just go to public hearing excellent okay so first board disclosure anybody um yes Ray speak to the on the
mic on the mic please i did speak to the owner of the property um maybe a month or so ago and I was happy that the same person was coming back and building the new house and wanting to live there yep has school did you have any disclosure didn't talk to anybody no okay all right
mr chair can I can I for one minute uh since we have two minutes left uh let's just finish board disclosures and then I'll get right back to you and then I'll write just Yes i spoke with the owner of the property yes okay as did I and I spoke with the architect I've been in
okay um so yes please the owner of of the propert oh great okay nice to put a face with a voice thank you all and thank thank you staff um I want to There's some people that have to leave so I'm going to speak very quickly um I want to thank my father and
sister for coming here today senator Steinberg my second and eighth grade teacher Rabbi Tattlelebound Jacob Jean George um Mayor Fell who has to leave in a minute he's on the Flamingo Park West board we originally we never anticipated knocking down this home i made a promise
to my mother that I would never sell the home that we grew up in so first we said had a whole set of plans to renovate the home and it be some of these problems became abundantly clear we submitted originally a much different design that I have to admit after showing it to about 20 different people who looked it
over everyone commended the design that the staff proposed the one that we're going with today so I want to thank you all because clearly whatever I submitted the first time around wasn't nearly as good as what you guys came up with so great again thank thank you everyone thank you thank you for being here and
taking an interest so um let can we go to uh public comment yes uh anyone on Zoom please raise your hand anyone in chambers please come forward um do you need to leave like very quickly can can I'm sorry can he just go first because I think Okay
thank you uh Mayor Felig homeowner of 1240 Lennox Avenue i've been living there for 5 years now um I've met with many people in the community i'm also part of the board member in that area and most people are in favor of the reconstruction of this home and the
demolition of it unfortunately over the past few years of living there there are many many vacant homes in the area due to restrictions on the rebuilding of them and the cost to rebuild them i live across the street from two vacant homes and I've made a lot of noise in the city
over the past year because there are countless of homeless people there there are activities going on at night um which I'm waking up in the morning and my kids are seeing people get arrested across from these homes so I'm really pushing to make a change and to get
these homes reconstruction and people living in these homes because it's a disaster right now in the area and uh I'm all in favor for it thank you great thank you very much i'm sorry go ahead roger Robin again uh Miami Design
Preservation League uh we actually had quite a uh demonstration of their uh project and we we're not opposing the proposed demolition it's unfortunate however to have the potential loss of a
contributing single family home within this historic Flamingo neighborhood but we saw pictures of the flooding and a lot and a lot of the other issues they have and uh we understand the challenges posed by the flooding the existing structures condition however the
proposed new building introduces a scale massing that is kind of incompatible with the historic character of Flamingo Park neighborhood the dramatic increase in height and floor to ceiling dimensions creates a structure that would tower over a lot of the historic homes we encourage the design to
maintain a more contextual scale with the existing neighborhood while addressing of of course the resiliency concerns thank you great thank you thank you my name is Isaac Titlebound i've lived in Miami Beach for
over 55 years the first few years I've lived in the 41st Street area and for over 50 years I've lived in South Beach down the block from the Mellies and 41st Street is not as wasn't as
popular as South Beach where we live but after that it changed 41st Street is very popular the houses are old none of them are vacant in our area they're all vacant many houses are constantly vacant
and the houses most of the houses are schmata houses they're below sea level and I don't know what you're trying to save over there the 41st became popular because every sec second house is being knocked down and beautiful homes go up
in our area it nothing's hardly anything changes because you don't want to let build nice homes you go to 41st Street you see those homes beautiful homes like the one you saw the Morellis want to build maybe it'll build up the area again also on for um North Bay Road
every second house was knocked down even though worth millions of dollars they knock them down knock them down and build beautiful homes on the fake on the area now if you want to keep the hotels as art deco okay but the homes our homes
are all schmatas if I had the money I would build a home like that so I don't know what you're trying to hold back the neighborhood from going up the houses are all schmatis if I had the money I would build a house like that too so I wish we could build up the
neighborhood again thank you thank you do we get an official interpretation on the word it's got to be in the It's got to be in the lexicon now my name is Stuart Morlli i'm Andrew's father um I purchased the home in 1976 I
believe um just there was some questions about the rate of deterioration that was brought up i can tell you that um around the time of Hurricane Andrew we had solar panels on the roof and a 500galon
water tank in the attic the house shifted and the water tank broke flooded the entire house um a few years later the living room floor collapsed it just
dropped down about 2 feet um after we built the additional structure on the back it was built with spread footings and at the time the spread footings that were used were sufficient to build a second story because we thought maybe down the line we'd want to build on top
of it um but that room started to settle along with other parts of the house there was a bulge in the middle of the room i don't know where it came from but the entire um structure was was not supported so the the rate of
deterioration has continued also with regard to how this home appears in connection with adjacent homes um keep in mind that on Michigan Avenue there are no neighbors it faces the track at Flamingo Park facing to the east it
faces Flamingo Park um there's literally one neighbor next door their home was built it was like a no architecture just a box and um across the alley going going west there's another home owned by
Sisso your friends and neighbors and I think everybody is um anxious to see the development of this home and really the development of the area so appreciate your time thank you thank you thank you for being here
good morning good morning good morning my name is George Gutman i've been a licensed state of Florida contractor for 38 years almost all my life has been in Miami Beach um they have a great architectural firm i was looking at the renderings and I know that without staff
support and their design the renderings would not look as beautiful as they are i just wanted to say job well done uh I've seen some homes not so attractive but I know without staff it wouldn't have happened so job very well done thank you thank you for giving the staff
a recommendation because they work very hard every day and we all rely on you guys so thank you morning my name is Jean West i've been a resident here from Miami Beach for over 25 years um I'm familiar with the
problems of 12ton Michigan and the neighborhood west of Flamingo Park as I have a key to the residence i've been using it as my office for the last two years i also single-handedly foiled the armed robbery of a suspect this year trying to break in with a knife fortunately we have that under video and
it helped us prosecute this individual but I'm very uh excited if this goes through and I think it'd be a great step for the neighborhood in a good direction great thank you thank you hi my name is Jacob Castel i've been a resident of Miami Beach now for 21 years
i'm also 6'9 so when I go over to the residence back in the day for Shabbat dinner and other family events a normal size ceiling maybe from 1982 or 1976 whenever this house was it doesn't work okay I hit my head walking through the
door okay like we need more houses like this it fits in with the neighborhood it's a beautiful home it's beautiful family i love the Mirror Mellies i want to continue going over for Shabbat dinner and I'm tired of hitting my head walking in every door so I I appreciate everyone's time here today thank you
thank you hi my name is Isaac Ky i'm 6'8 and I have the same exact problem and I definitely would like to support a higher ceiling all right thank you very much hi I'm Sarah Morelli i'm Andrew's sister i was born and raised in this home
andrew you made promised my mom that he was going to preserve this home save this home and it's in honor of her and her memory i have not been able to walk back in this home since she passed not because of the emotional part which is a part of it is disgusting the house is infested
with termites it's sinking it smells like mildew it is just sad for me not to be able to go get my childhood memories and go through her stuff and her belongings in almost two years so I really please hope you can approve of this home thank Oh and one more thing is
I lived in 1235 Lennox which we wanted to renovate the h was raining in my living room with my two children and we couldn't get anything done it was like they mayor was saying homeless people in the park and it was really scary so I've now moved to North Beach so to really
help clean up this area I think it's important to start here thank you my name is Paul Steinberg i've lived on Miami Beach and worked on Miami Beach for over 50 years i happen to be the attorney for the Sharon and Millie
estate and Andrew the personal representative originally when Sharon passed away Andrew was intent on rebuilding the house because that was his house over the year or so since his mother died it became obvious that it
can't be done and that was his original plan uh I've looked at the house i've been in the house i know about the flooding in the area and I think it's about time that her memory as well as the family memory would be uh saved by
sorry to say removing the existing house and putting a quality structure on the site okay thank you Senator thank you hi good morning mark All 5979 Alton i've also uh grew up here on Miami Beach and
I've known the Morellis for almost 30 years i've been to the house many many times and also I grew up on Northshore Drive which is another pretty good example of homes that have um different scales there my mother's still in her
original house which is a one-story and it's um one of the only homes on the street that are still like that but the truth is that is just the way things are going that is the new architecture and you know when my mother ever moves out of that house I'm sure it will be torn
down and another um one almost hopefully as nice as this one gets built up and um unfortunately for whatever your um I love all um art deco and old Miami Beach homes but they just they don't they're
not lasting anywhere sadly thank you uh okay that was it for Are there more we have people on Zoom okay um our first speaker is Ozar's phone iPhone ozarks hi good morning hi could you
please state your name for the record and then I'll swear you in sure my name is Eric Simon eric do you swear or affirm that the testimony you'll give in this proceeding is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do thank you you have three
minutes i just want to say I know the Merllis for over 40 years and uh numerous times Andy told me that uh he would never sell the house he would always want to live there and my mother actually lives on 1400 Lennox Avenue at the corner right
behind the CVS and my mother every single time and she's a 80-year-old lady every single time it rains it floods into her garage and I'm just you know God willing she'll live to 120 however um one day when I also inherit her house
um I'm going to be look I'm going to be say I'm going to be faced with the same issues because literally her her house the foundation is crumbling and um we're you know we have engineers coming to try to see what we could do with it but every single time it rains her entire
garage floods uh it comes into the living room a little bit so um this this area obviously you know is a is a flood zone and um so I just wanted to say that you know I think the design of the house is absolutely beautiful and uh if one day I would love to have that house at
1400 LX Avenue myself okay thank you our next speaker I'm done oh thank you our our next speaker is Moshi Sosano good morning do you swear or affirm the testimony you'll give in this proceeding is the truth the whole truth and nothing
but the truth yes absolutely thank you you have three minutes um I've been a lifetime resident of Miami Beach uh live right next door to the Merlly's and I'm a fellow member with uh Mayor Felic on the Flamingo Park West Neighborhood Association uh I
second everything that mayor said we've been dealing with extreme issues of homelessness vagrancy crime um as well as other multiple issues due to vacant homes homes that cannot be renovated and it would be an extremely welcoming uh idea and site to have a neighbor again as opposed to having a vacant
deteriorating home that cannot be lived in so I absolutely support this okay thank you um I do not see any other speakers all right um is there any applicant rebuttal to
anything the speaker said i don't think this is a rebuttal really i just want to stress that um in the RM um uh RS4 district it's the stringest most stringent district as far as height is concerned uh we are three and a half
feet below where we can actually be so we're about as much to scale as possible uh having a pragmatic home uh our understory is 2 and 1/2 ft below what it actually could be as far as in height so I think we've respected that uh and I
just wanted everybody to to to understand that about the scale of of this residence great thank you and if you could sit um take a seat and we're going to have board member uh comment now just um and it's not going to go back and forth to the applicant is going
to be amongst us when we're very good at that by now um so uh Ray would you like to start well I just want to thank them for the presentation um uh it's always sad to lose a historic home um and it's
a sad reality that this entire area is below flood plane and there's going to be more and more of these things happening um sadly um but I I um it's a great plan i'm thrilled that you asked
for no variances because so many people come before us asking for more more and more and I I I I thank you i think it's a good presentation and I'm all set thank you thank you Ray Haskell great presentation uh I commend the
Merlly family for the list of uh speakers that you've gathered to support um the demolition of this home i think your design is beautiful u you've answered my questions in terms of um not encroaching on setbacks the height
you're below your the maximum allowed so uh for those reasons I support you all day thank you Huskll elizabeth thank you for the presentation um yes it's very sad to see another historic home go but we do understand that life
goes on and things need to be replaced when the right time comes um I like the design appreciate all the explanations given i just wish like from a volutric standpoint it would be a little bit softer not so much on Michigan but on 12th Street because it's still very like
a straight lines and trying to make some reference to the existing home and the more historic homes they're a little softer on the street front but other than that um I appreciate it thank you Lindsay
um no I mean I I appreciate the applicant um you know working with staff to come up with a workable solution um you know to preserve or you know in essence or uh their family home so
all right and I was just going to add uh my compliments to the team you have worked very hard over many months and uh I'm particularly appreciative that you work so closely with staff because they are our professional um adviserss here
and um guide and guides and um I you know I think that the I ask questions specifically about the engineering and how that works because as we move further and further along we're going to need to have more and more specifics
about how how data is collected and how it's analyzed and understood in terms of either building sinking or structural uh structural um needs of particularly historic buildings um and so I um but I
I think that the idea that this is not just a single family home but it seems like a community a community in inspiration is uh even more uh of more value so than almost anything else so I thank you for that and with that I will entertain a
motion oh Ray um I make a motion to approve the certificate of approprius with the conditions that were uh set by staff and that you've accepted as well um second question i second
okay u let me call the role mr meyer yes miss Levelvel yes miss Carmago yes mr brlin yes mr stewart yes thank you okay we're Thank you we're We are going
to move on to our next application um on the agenda this morning is HPB 24 0643 this is 1825 Collins Avenue an application has been filed requesting a
certificate of appropriateness for the partial demolition and renovation of the existing hotel building site improvements and a variance from the minimum required setbacks for a detached sign i'm going to turn this over to Jake for the presentation thank you Debbie
the Nautilus Hotel was constructed in 1950 and designed by architects Morris Albert Anis and Morris Lapidis in the postwar modern style and was more recently renovated in 2012 the applicant is proposing several design modifications throughout the site
including improvements to the entry drive lobby and other public spaces pool deck and rear yard most notably at the rear of the lobby a more defined lounge area with partial glass walls is proposed to be introduced and in front of the lounge a small cafe counter the
hotel lobby as originally designed is expansive and these new elements define more intimate spaces staff believes the architect has g done a good job at balancing the historic character of the lobby with modern hospitality standards staff does recommend however that the
overhead storage rack along the front of the counter be eliminated to better reinforce the original visual connection from the hotel entrance to the rear of the lobby other modifications include the expansion of two window openings at the second level of the rear elevation
to access an existing roof deck and new outdoor bar counter and shade structures within the rear yard finally the applicant is requesting a variance to locate a detached sign along the front property line and partially within the right ofway where a setback of 5 ft is
required staff finds that unique conditions exist in which the existing recreated historical Nautilus signage at the Porticochet and building parapit leaves little area for a sign identifying the current hotel brand as such staff finds that practical
difficulties exist warranting the granting of the variance and that's it and we're available for any questions are there any questions for for Jake or for staff at this point no okay welcome thank you good morning uh thank you
Debbie and Jake for your presentation and thank you chair and members of the board for allowing us to present our application my name is Armando Hassoon with the law offices at 200 South Piscane Boulevard in Miami i'm here on behalf of the applicant the owner of the
Nautilus Hotel located at 1825 Collins Avenue with me here today is my colleague David Koviello a representative from ownership Sean Bosle and our architect of record Miriam Salis from Campo Architecture
for some context and background you can see the location of the property along Collins Avenue north of 18th Street as noted the building was constructed in 1950 and is a contributing building it is al also located within the Ocean Drive Collins a
Historic District and the Miami Beach Archite architectural district the zoning RM3 as staff outlined we are here to request approval of relatively modest renovations to the interior and exterior public spaces as well as a sign
variance these changes will improve the guest experience while also being sensitive to the original original design i want to note that we are in full agreement with the staff report and the conditions of approval with the exception of the removal of the glass rack and storage for the proposed cafe
counter which Miriam will address i'd like to ask Miriam to come up now and walk you through the architectural plans good morning and thank you for your time thank you for the very productive staff report um we have been working with David and her team for quite a while sorry excuse
the intro part i am Miriam Sales i will be the architect of record on this project my practice um in which I'm a partner and the director specializes in hotels specifically through the lens of preservation history so we are very
dedicated to keep our old hotels and the essence over what they are so specifically into this project the the building I we all know is the work of Maris Labios and needs to be preserved so our design intent has been very careful on no
modific modifications to the essence of the spaces um for today we we're going to present what the renovations are as say that are very modest the the one exterior change which is only on the
rear of the building and then we can we can the if you have been in the Nautilus for recent times we all remember that it's a very narrow property very long facing columns and then the boardwalk
our presentation and you have a much larger package for you guys to review than where we presenting digitally today um all approaches the president historic complaint to the extent they exist today in that effect we are going to I want to
walk you guys through the guest arrival indoor outdoor spaces pool and the beach in the guest arrival area we have four elements of intervention one is we are replacing the existing dry with
permeable pavers as we know the imperial surfaces are not ideal for this location the the second change is like line item B the replacement of the front desk millwork while we are keeping the location current hospitality standards want a more
individualized experience so the individual pots serve the guest better the third one is the introduction of the lobby counter which is shown in the image on the right as Z and then lastly is the incorporation of a glass
partition between the rear of this cafe counter and the sunken lobby lounge um as it relates to the demolition that is being proposed obviously we need to demolish the existing driveway payment to be replaced we have an existing popup which is a
sort of a coffee stand towards the front we have a also an existing dress dressing room that will be both removed um the existing finishes of the bar will remain and we have a towards the
adjacent to the dot with a C reflects the proposed area that will have the new cafe the images on the right are telling of the intention of how the new way will looking it is inter interlocking perable
papers um something fun that we are adding is this jolly car they um as you know Instagram moments are needed on today's spaces so it is a removal feature it's not a permanent feature um
which by by it essence of being removal is not altering the character of the building one important element and we see it in the bottom images um for the same reasons that Dave explained we are compromising or real estate where to put
a sign to identify the hotel brand we are proposing to in the previous location of the Arlo signage it will be the James Hotels signage um we included this as a reference of what we're trying to do landscape wise which is all within native plants and
full landscape architectural plans will be provided and the permitting process on the plan denotes the difference of the continuous reception desk into reception pots will be three
of them we will be adding in line item C the coffee lounge in item D we will be updating the finishes one important thing is the see the that has been a lot where we have been working closely with
the staff and been limiting the level of obstruction that is being proposed right so being from being initially a solid wall now it is a glass wall and I understand the
the the concerns with what we are showing on image D as the shelving if you move one more page 13 and 14 in this rendering we can see how the glass wall behind the bar has
been included for separation but it is a visual connection established and I understand the suggestion recommendation of removal of that front storage piece because the space is so small operationally is needed otherwise we'll
be needing two attendants either baristas or then there's later on night the problem with that is the space that is provided trying to be reducing footprint doesn't really allow for two or three servers at the same time one
thing that I think we are very willing and very open to work with at staff level is the simplification of that proposed storage overhead storage and probably the change of materiality so it is more consistent with the transparency that is desired
for this area this is these views are cortis for interior designers the they kind of explaining what is the effort on here and the design the proposed with the ornamental racks is trying to make
reference to some of the language of modios um I can see that being busy pattern so we could definitely review that here we're talking about how we're separating the lounge so what initially was proposed as a hard wall then as a
glass wall is now gone and The idea of having continuous drapes it will be that A is not a permanent installation and B can be removed immediately as needed or if needed along the side where we were having the popup of the coffee shop and
the pop-up of the dressing room were providing much more intimate areas they're broken down by sitting groups and is aligned with artwork and displays as we move down to the property in area three we're proposing a closer indoor
outdoor um relationship so we're calling this the barum salon which is taking place of the current restaurant in line item E is there configuration of the current restaurant bar to provide more of a semi private meeting room option
but it could also be open if there is a demand and then item F will be proposing to replace existing windows with new sliding windows just to create a sense of openness visually it will be very
similar as we can show in the next slide the area dashed in between the near the items E are what is being removed to create that private dining and the top of that we are increasing the number of plumbing fixtures even beyond what is
called required just to provide guest experience um the line item F is where we're providing the sliding doors which are in the same location of current openings it's just the operation is different this is depicted here the opening
doesn't change it's just the operation this is also called the super interior designers it's a artist rendering of what we are proposing it's very consistent the the difference is the ability to open the windows during the day and have a a true transition
indoors outdoors as it relates to the canopy we are not replacing we're not proposing to remove it it will replace in kind um the current canvas is pretty much dated and it needs to be replaced in
kind as we move down the property we are in area four which is the pool area the what we're proposing here is to refurbish the existing pool cabanas and the wood and the existing woodp deck you can see as you know stone can be a very
harsh element and it just needs to be replaced it will be replacing kind the we are providing a new landscape offer with between the cabanas and the rest of the polar area is more for privacy of the cabanas but it is
still an open space i will say the most significant change on the existing configuration will be on line item I which is existing bar is center on the property and the effort here has been to open the property so if we look into the into the
next slide we can see that the location is dead center right now there is astroturf we are going to be replacing the astrof with a a more contemporary but also permeable material in which we're changing the turf with gravel i
believe that the samples of the gravel were sent probably at the end of last year to office um here the what I say the intensity of change is more significant but is also in our opinion as quite of an improvement of the use of
this space we are pro we are splitting what was in the current bar current location of the bar which is that dash circular line with um two separate pavilions that are open air they're not going to be fully enclosed structures one contains a bar where you can sit up
and have a small plates or alcoholic beverage and then the other one is cover communal seating um the center line on the landscape elements is sitting areas but also are of open nature as we can see on the the following image this is
also we're providing here the reference of the landscape drawings in which we again we're making a strong effort to work with native plants and to you reutilize in place existing planting as you remember we had that beautiful bamboo walkway the this is
a rendering of the artist that's pretty much telling of our vision and very far into what we have selected of this material for FFN FF all of the furnishing is removable So there is not a permanent modification
um as it relates to the Oops may I continue how much more time do you need for this i mean like last three pages two minutes yes okay two minutes the rear windows in the first floor and then there's two openings on the second
floor that were discussed by staff in which we are just replacing the existing windows for a door that leads into the terrace that is already existing i can skip it pretty much described and then lastly is the signage
variance what is being proposed is a a sign that meets the requirements of signage for a detached signage it's kept at the five feet diameter meaning its height will comply and it is tangent to the previous footprint of the Arlo sign
as is shown in the image you got I'm obviously here for any questions you may have into what is intended design great thank you very much um so right now we have
um any questions we will entertain questions of the applicant about the project or the variance okay all right any questions all right good um I noticed you have
like a double entry coming in from the beachwalk is that meaning that now you're going to have uh that area open to people coming in from the beachwalk to utilize the restaurant and whatnot which currently you do not have right now there is a door that is usually in
an open position during the day hours and is closed at night it has a panic hardware to go out as a means of errance what we are proposing is a door at the existing location and that allows access from any patron that will use the bar
loom beach side however it restricts to after hours be only accessible by guest Gar right yeah with any of these buildings along Collins Avenue they're they're very long and narrow yes so it's very difficult when you walk in the front door you have to walk almost all
the way to the back to get to the restaurant which always made them somewhat unpopular um and I think your use of color and everything coming in that step down area is always been sort of a nuisance with this particular property and I do hope that the James
Hotel the third time is is a a a good plus for them because they started off trying to build at 21st Street where the Bugari is now and then they went into um the Royal Palm and left there and now they're going to come to you and let's
hope that this works out well they're having a charm any other any other questions um of the applicant well um seeing none uh we will then go to board are you going to be closed
during renovation sorry Sar will you be closed during the renovation no we have been working closely with far marshals and planning i'm sorry the idea will be to provide it's not going to be closed certain areas will be closed but
will allow full so you're not going to totally close like the Shelborne did no okay because the what we're doing in the guest tower which is not the subject of presentation is mostly cosmetic improvements so it doesn't require full closure we are going to be working with what is defined as buffer floors for
from a fire prevention perspective okay thank you just one quick question why do you see the need to extend beyond the property line for your signage a five foot tall sphere so what happen is because we cannot put usually
signage go in the canopy we obviously need to maintain the canal to lose signage so what we're having is an issue of where to put the sign most of that entrance is needed for the the vehicle access to the property for the drop off area so we're left with a very small
landscape buffer that's where we need to put the sign if it gets too much behind then it's covered by an existing color and existing planting so we're pretty much mimicking the previous Arllor signage i'm just going by your rendering
and the column looks to be five feet behind property line right your rendering on Yeah can we put the presentation back on page oh one area one yeah
so so that column's to the right and it's essentially uh I can't see it your stamp is on the right of away but it's at beyond the property line to the east of the property line yes hence hence the varian's request why can you not just
simply push that back beyond the property line and maintain your signage on the property line not encroach into the public right away because it will encroach in the required space for the vehicle access so we're we're look that line that represents the
end of the paving and the curve that is existing landscape buffer as it is today can you use the cursor to point out what you're talking about exactly yeah there you go much taller um this exact this curved line
represents this behind the arrow so that driveway is in the narrower side and it can get very busy if we can further encroach into that space with the signage it will be a negative intervention on the how it operates if
we were to keep the signage on this side it gets very far from how they perceive so we're trying to create perspective as people is coming in i just want to say I support everything you're doing i like what you're doing
but this idea of I'm very much against getting into the public right away with um new features of the building yes sir okay thank you okay Elizabeth
so uh can you talk a little bit about the paving that you're proposing for the driveway in the front sure because just like the scale because the picture you showed it's not Yeah correlates to the floor plan yep so we can also leave the
scale is presented well here so what we saw the the the uneven of the scales we are trying to be more playful as in having the same consistent papers the interlocking pattern allows for this rhythm and the
intention is to have greenery coming through we wanted to work with a little with larger paper so the area of greener and more permeable surface will be larger but we needed the paper surface to have good traction for vehicle right so then this drawing is
not in scale that's what you're telling me the other one is more in tune what you're looking forward to and let me I can choose you to put the right is 13 so you can see here the scale of it is very close paving mhm and then what
we're proposing it is a little bit more open um the intent here with increasing the scale is to also be able to increase the length of the greener otherwise it will be very chopped right okay all right thank you and my other question is
related to the back area where you have currently the bar that you demolish and having two side bars i think that's a great idea to open the view of the beach so I was just thinking about your decision on having the crushed granite or marble for the surface and on the
maintenance and I don't know if there is any flooding every so often it rains hard and where all these little crushed stones will end up after a storm so what the deal with using the cross turn is that it's a common material used for
just maintenance and operation it has enough weight to hold during rain it has also enough density to allow for permeability so from a I'm also a sustainable specialist along with preservation so while the idea of the granular nature of
it is better drainage surface it tends not to go into your drainage it tends to stay in place but just let the water come through any other any other questions from the board um all right with that we have
um board disclosures did anybody speak to the applicant or anybody related to this no neither neither did I so we'll go right to um public
comment roger i'm Roger again uh Maryland I moved uh Miami Design Preservation League and basically we we support the project it's uh just subject to the staff recommendations which we think are good and uh we appreciate your
continued investment into the uh contributing building designed by Albertanis and uh Morris Leis thank you thank you um anyone on Zoom wishing to comment please raise your hand
seeing none all right so um now we have uh board member comment i'll go down the line um uh Lindsay can I start with you or you no okay ray can I start with you you've
said I I I mean I really like the the retro look the bright colors and whatnot i mean so many hotels now are going to the very monotone and and to me walking into that would be very refreshing um I don't know how comfortable all those
chairs would be but I'm sure I'd find one that I could sit in it would be comfortable and I I think that they've done a great job in trying to um reimagine what you can do with a very long deep structure like this hotel is
thank you great that's cool i I like the uh the renovation the proposed renovation the issue that I have like I said you're encroaching essentially two and a half feet beyond the property line and I don't want to set a precedent for future developments where they you know
today it's two tomorrow it's three next week it's seven so I'd like to see that set within your property line thank you very much Elizabeth do you have any comments i think you are last lindsay I know
lindsay are you getting close to being to gathering your thoughts on this no okay I I'll go i'll just I just had um uh to Haskell's to Haskell's point maybe to bring Debbie into this question
because the staff I thought had a a convincing kind of argument about the variance question and um I was just wondering if maybe you could put a little bit more of your thinking out there for us sure so this you know it's a very challenging site for for signage
um and visibility as a lot of our oceanfront properties are but in this instance they have very significant historic signage um both on the building and on the portico share uh we had initially spoke with the applicant about maybe changing the portico share signage
which staff expressed serious concern about um I think we all know and love this sign um and the applicant was very respectful of our opinion in the historic sign um and so determined that a detached sign would be the best way to
go now there is a portion of the sign that is shown projecting past their property line staff was not concerned about that number one this could not be approved by the planning department this requires a revocable permit by public works there are many of these permits
that were grant have been granted throughout the city it's actually approved by the city commission public works makes a a recommendation um there's an existing planter element there so there's already an architectural element that is maintained
by the private property within the rightway portion and so I didn't you know from our perspective we weren't taking away any sort of uh public amenity here because the planter is already there we're not encroaching into
the sidewalk or the circulation um within the section of Collins Avenue so we were supportive of it we do believe it's probably the best location for a new sign um you know we'd be also be happy to try to work with the applicant to shift it eastward um but we didn't
have any any concerns about it other than it would need to go through a process to be reviewed by public works and then ultimately a revocable permit issued by the city commission right and um I had one other question about the um about the the overhead bar
i think there was a new rendering that we saw i don't know whether it it seemed to have less of the circular details on it the the overhead bottle storage as as it was called uh yeah we were you know we were trying to preserve that connect the visual connectivity through the the
space um ultimately I think we could work with the architect they're very talented team uh very agreeable and respectful to come up with something that has more transparency if if the board shall choose um to move forward with that
thank you Lindsay comment maybe even a question um so I I was just kind of flipping through here making sure I didn't miss anything um so I'll start with comment admittedly this is absolutely one of my favorite
lobbies and hotels on the beach it is um I don't know it's that has significant meaning for me for lots of reasons um I actually had dinner there as recently as like two or three months ago um I got to say I'm not real thrilled with the bar closing off that opening
right there i mean because that is one of the things that I think makes that lobby I mean anytime I describe it and I think I have a list of places to go in Miami Beach that's one of the things I say you walk in and you see the sunken bar and like that's the first thing that you see so I'm struggling a lot with the
closing off of that in the interior lobby um and I know you know staff's report talks about you know in the 1950s this was the standard of uh accommodations and now that it's changed um that's a struggle for me and then obviously then in addition to that right
we're losing the the visual even above and over the bar um what I didn't see and perhaps I missed it so someone could point me in the right direction did we have any historic photos of the lobby interior
applicant or historic resources report or anything like that just a floor plan yeah in the in the last one of the last images that you have in your printouts it is the historical floor plan which is not the current configuration so that circular sunken
bar is of a different geometry than where it used to exist okay okay one I I wanted to respond if I may to the location i don't know if it's a appropriate time though okay the that coffee lounge it is to replace the
existing popup that is near the glass wall which we don't think is of a good design it it little looks like a temporary construction right so there is a need to have a coffee area for a guest on hotel today's hotel standards so in
trying to place an element in this very open space we explore many locations three dimensionally and we thought that because it's net nested between the columns might be the best approach um Deb has shared with us another example of one that will be around a column but
it will throw it off center and we thought it was better to keep the very center line actual design um as it relates to the overhead like I mentioned during the my initial presentation we're very open to work with the staff we have in the past and if I'm if I'm not
mistaken my first call on this project was a call to Davy's office i actually sit in the similar board than you guys do today in New Orleans so we're very very pro preservation in our practice
thank you Elizabeth yes uh so just siding with Ray I really like the the new the the colors chosen and the trying to revive bringing back the the vibrancy of the past of the lobby so I I really
enjoy that um regarding the bar I would I think it would be very beneficial if you could remove the rack at least on the front the side since they are covered in between the column and the structure element it's no big deal maybe you can make this even a little bigger to gain some extra storage space but if
you could keep the openness and the ability to see through from front to back as you walk into the hotel I think that would be a really um an important feature to add to the current design and um I'm still a little concerned with the crushed granite in the back because it's
a very large area and there is furniture sitting on top of this crushed granite and as you know it moves with weight and then chairs start wobble tables wobble so I see that kind of a maintenance nightmare for the management so that's
just a recommendation to maybe explore something else that will give you the permeability that you're looking for but would work a little bit better with uh pedestrian traffic and the furniture that actually makes a lot of sense all right uh with that we've had um
board member comment and um would anybody like to um we we need Let me just clarify before we start oh yes go ahead i was going to just clarify that we need two votes and we need um
how many votes do we need to pass the um certificate of appropriateness yeah there's a small amount of demolition so we need five for the certificate of appropriateness and then it would be five and then five for the variance even with the short board yes
okay yes lindsay did you have a question oh you want to make a motion no I Well I was going to suggest because I I kind of know where I'm standing at the moment should we should we actually vote or should we straw poll it we can straw poll um would I be okay
with that do you want to straw poll on the certificate of appropri yeah so can we Sure um well I I would sort the variant can we sort the variance or We can start with the variance okay so straw poll on the variance straw poll on the variance lindsay
I would support the variance okay i would support the variance okay and how school does not support straw and then the certificate of appropriateness for the demolition and the construction and the the public
interior straw hole yes please start i'm a no no then do we need to go further go i mean how how much do we need to go yes yes i'm a yes yes you're a yes and you're a no all
right so um our options are Go ahead Lindsay i was going to say our options are to uh we could we could also do what we did before which is say we will wait until we have a more of a board uh together
and and can we but can we do that i have to ask Nick if that's okay on a on something like this can we because this is a very different application than what we were looking at i would like Debbie to weigh in but I would first say that the board has authority to approve with conditions
right so if there is a particular condition that you would like to see here you can impose that condition on your approval as long as it is within the the the scope of your review criteria so you could pro you could conceivably approve a variance without
but but say that the the sign cannot be in the public right away which means there really is no variance is that you can't no there there's still a variance because it would be at the property because it would have to be at the property required to be at 5T would that be something that you would accept if we
moved it so there's nothing over the the sign is not over the property okay so maybe we can maybe we can um move and obviously everybody else was okay with it so if can I have a motion for the variance that would satisfy everybody Lindsay
about the variance question yeah and it's kind of for the applicant i mean kind of is that workable if we had more of a full full board you might get it's it's up to right it's up to you right we have more of a full board you might get the variance as requested now um and so
I you know not to say if if let me before we even pose that as a real question um Nick is that a real possibility that we could do what we did with the first item on our agenda today and say we're going to uh continue until
we have a whole board in May for example May or June you you could do you do you first want to hear from I just want to know if it was a possibility you could okay thank you so I think we can ask the applicant if they'd like to be voted now with the given where we are
right now or wait until we have a full board to vote again yeah I'm sorry David Koviello with offices at 200 South Piscane Boulevard on behalf of the applicant so what I'm hearing is we need five votes to approve their certificate of appropriateness and and five votes to
approve the variance and we had started with the variance which was easier and the vice chair is not at support at this moment so yeah we would like to continue to to the next available meeting if possible i would like to introduce a thought um and it's something that for
instance in our review or in New Orleans we do often which is an approval with conditions or provides us that the at the design level the architect is committed to introduce and work with the staff level to get it to completion and the only reason why I mentioned that is
because the scheduling impact that this will further delay the permitting process that's why I asked about the variance we're closer on the variance so we could get the variance if you would be willing to move the sign um onto the property line like just a little bit closer in definitely and and then we
could we could do that and then I think we can work on the on the certificate of appropriateness with details um you know that we could request because they don't seem you have such a good relationship with staff it seems like if we told and agreed what this would okay Lindsay and
so so I think and and I'm not looking to hold you guys up at all I I just I'm I'm really struggling again I I expressed it earlier like what you you were losing that walk-in that grander the I Frankie in my opinion it's I think they'd be willing to work with staff on
on that if you because staff had had recommendations in line with that I think right but I mean I I mean my part is is that I think the recommendations from staff were to talking about not having the upper but not necessarily not having the coffee bar there at all and that's what I'm struggling with we we
can certain I'm sorry interrupt we can certainly um you know look at eliminating the rack and perhaps putting it to the sides which is doesn't impact the the view corridor um but in terms of without that rack and having the bar the bar counter there there's still that's
that's all glass behind it so you can see directly through i don't know if you can pull the rendering up but you can actually see the the design of the ceiling and the bar you can see directly through so we we would be immutable to you know working with staff to modify
that overhang glass rag and let me let me just ask about uh Lindsay's comment to staff because I don't think you had an objection and I didn't have an objection to there being a coffee bar there it was the visual um is is that something that you think is
inappropriate for that particular location or somehow we could we would have a a grounds for kind of saying this is not where that coffee bar should be you know staff was comfortable with the with the coffee bar as long as that
visual connectivity remained which is why we have the recommendation on the upper portion we think that's probably the most important kind of viewshed through through the space you know people don't normally look close to look
through a site you hold your head up um so we're comfortable with the bar um counter there and you know the removal of the upper portion right and and redesigning the side racks to accommodate more storage i
think Lindsay you might have to provide more data or details as to why you you you counter staff's professional opinion about this i mean I'm in trouble i mean and I mean and that's why I asked about historic resources or historic photos or anything
like that they don't exist so so long as I've known it it's I mean yes there's the view but I mean you walk in so I mean yes removing the overhead would remove you but you walk straight in and you go you know and like I mean I have actually stayed in the hotel um strangely enough um and my friends had a
you know their bachelorette party down here and I was like why am I paying to stay in a hotel when I live four blocks away but nonetheless I did um but uh you know you go in it's this grand opening that you walk into the bar um you know
and and maybe there's a programmatic need aside from the coffee bar why you're trying to close that site off but from my perspective that's a loss that that's me and I mean and and that's and that's kind of you know again I go back to that's why the public interiors May I
respond do follow us you want can we just pull up the rendering just and try to try to envision that rendering without the the wine rack you could really see straight through as I said you can see the ceiling I I just think Her point is that you wouldn't be able
to walk straight through but I I I'm not sure you'd be able to walk straight through even if that wasn't there isn't there a a change in elevation there's it steps down but yeah but you walk in and down yeah right so which we are keeping that in place we're not eliminating the steps we're not interrupting only from
that point of the center what's one thing that is important as preservation is we struggle many times it is bringing current guest expectations of a hotel and maintaining the significant spaces or the contributing elements inside a
historic place so we were trying to find that balance and we worked very closely with De and her team into finding a way that the bar will still allow for transparency into the space and visual access to the space
it Yes I understand is there I guess the you have the you you have the bar on the do you have this can you put it up the plan the plan up yes uh yeah there you go so you have the the new the new bar
Yeah so where where Lindsay's maybe there's another way that that um existing bar on the north side of that on the north side of that space you have it there um the existing bar right above D yeah yeah that bar exists now exactly
whether that can be enhanced to accommodate the coffee um as well yes and no if you think about most hotels you grab coffee on the go you might I'm I'm just saying this is between getting this done today or
waiting potentially waiting to get it done a little bit later i'm trying to kind of figure out other ways that you if you wanted to work with staff maybe there's a there's now that gray box up there can you move the cursor just a little bit okay um so just to the left of the D there's a Could the coffee bar
go to the left um just shift up to the north so it's between the column and the between here yeah right there right in there uh right in there and then be a more closely aligned with the other bar would that work for you yeah i wish I
had brought my sketches of when we were developing we pro I promise you we place it there it looks so offcenter because we have the very act ael approach to enter through the center of the space so putting something that was so offc center to one corner okay it loses the
balance of the space so what we were trying was to recreate or not necessarily recreate but like respect that actual nature and in order to do that you have to balance it i understand so what's currently to the la to the right of the reception desk
hold on there is like the reception desk there is glass area I think and double doors to the car yeah what's in there right now um this is sort of a middleware wall right now is art so if you would locate your bar like
somewhat contiguous to the check in the reception desk would that be we could and I don't want to I'm sorry I don't want to play design apologize doing this the reason why it's not proposed there is the level
of modification that in terms to the guts of the building with a lot of you know back of the house operations and functions of infrastructure occur that I think will be cost prohibitive so there are a couple things as to why here we have a knee wall running through here
and this is very pragmatic probably but that's where we're running plumbing because we didn't want to do any intervention to the teraso floor so we needed to find a place to run any infrastructures to support both electrical and plumbing lines
Lindsay did you have another and I think maybe one of the pieces that I'm missing missing here programmatically so like is the plan here because you also have the seat so as it exists right now with the sunken bar you can walk in from I don't
know 80 degrees of that circle if you will right now um programmatically like what are I see like the ramp so is the plan that all entrance into the sunken lobby bar would be through the ramp maybe that's I don't know if it changes my mind i'm just trying to
understand a little bit better yes we did the intention of the program much perimeter seating was to increase our capacity because right now the seating capacity on the bar is quite limited so that was the best way to while not exceeding what is allowed by
code but create more seating area the while the we we didn't stay but we spent a significant amount of time documenting the property and we never saw anybody going through the steps most people tend to go through the ramp as it currently
stands um so given what you've heard is there anything that makes sense or or is it the Go ahead well and then along those lines I swear I'm not normally this difficult um
along those lines I mean I know you said you have a popup and it's you made some comment about the construction of the popup but why not have the coffee bar you know on the south side of the lobby where it is now i mean I know you have seating set
up there but you know the seating is the plan that you're going to put there now that you take the coffee bar out talk to me about that so we're placing Let me go back to the slide so what happen is right now the coffee bar functions here we are create
creating and proposing an area for concierge dedicated concier service which uh we we think sorry we think that is in the appropriate place for concing the reception desk because now concern services are not provided within the
reception desk that expectation from the guest but we didn't want to have an obstacle as you enter the space so right now in my opinion when you enter the lobby and you have that popup first we have the popup of the coffee shop that looks like a temporal construct and then
you have a pop-up of the dressing room in my mind we were cleaning that space again many designers many points of views right i I was only going to add that you know the um the ex the addition of the coffee bar where they place it is
just temporary i mean it's not it it is what they're going what they're planning but they're not it's not something that will structurally change the the lobby forever uh if somebody wanted to get back to a much much more open and not have coffee be what you see when you
first come in um you know we often see that um those kind of changes that are that we understand are re redoable eventually can I something sparious as I saying there is a possibility to provide that sort of the service and the
equipment in a move way like a coffee on wheels but this the space is needed operation is needed my fear if we do a coffee on wheels is that also we look unfinished as a temporary intervention better than something that I think can be thoughtfully designed that um so you
talk about it's reversible if you will um but one of the reason I mean John said that but yes you agree um but one of the reasons you said you didn't want to put it off center aside from the fact that it is offc center um is you've got the knee wall there you've got I mean and you do have absolutely beautiful TZO
floors i mean um maybe it's unfortunate that I'm as familiar with like this hotel lobby as that I as I am um but uh what is the impact of this coffee bar on that Terzo floor such that if later at a later date um it could you know it
could be reversed what is it i mean that's an impact so I'm curious when we have done this in the past because we also work a lot with historic tax rates and the department's already interior standard for rehabilitation what we need to do is something that when you remove
the intervention this space is still intact so many times we provide like an underllayment that is sort of a protection between the mill work install and the existing teraso existing marbles depending on the location the indentment
is a a protective element so there is no mechanical no fasteners attached to the terraso the weight of the mill work itself places in place that nobody can lean against it and push it but we don't want anybody securing it because we don't want to have holes and patches on
the teras so okay um I might be able to get behind this but I'm not your only one i mean I think I was the strongest voice on it but I'm not your only one so I don't know
yeah so how I think Haskell you were against the Oh this is Oh you you were okay yeah I think he said no yes I know i know yes you're right you're right okay so I think um
I'll make a motion how's that okay since I've been the one kind of driving this um so I'll make a motion to approve as as recommended by staff with
conditions um that we figure out the best way I don't know how to phrase this figure out the best way to maintain at least that view corridor um which would mean finding another
storage space for the overhead right um and then also and I'm guessing it's probably in the plan somewhere what you just described to me the underllayment below the mill work that prevents the fasteners into the terzo such that at a
later date should you or somebody else decide that they want to remove it they can without damaging the tozo i just want to make sure that that's conditioned is that a possibility yeah I think we just need to come up with the wording um but yeah it's
definitely a possibility okay um so with that I I think it would be I mean look I think this is going to be a beautiful space and I don't deny that and I want to be very clear no I mean I I think it's absolutely gorgeous i just am struggling with the loss right and
that's the problem that I have uh so I want to be very clear there um so that's for the certificate of appropriate correct certificate of appropriateness so we're g we're about to vote on the certificate of appropriate right with this mod with these conditions but we need a second i second
okay we have a Do you want to take the vote just let me clarify the condition um we came up with something real quick here um that the bar counter itself shall be designed coffee bar the coffee bar does shall be designed so that it is
not directly attached to the Turzo flooring is that what you described as your plan absolutely okay and and we provide the final cut sheets and section details once we are for the and that the overhead will be reworked with staff the
that the center um the western rack shall be removed and the side areas of the rack may be um increased to accommodate additional storage subject to staff review
when you say western areas of the rack I just want to make sure I understand what you mean it's the front right when you walk in so it would be the front portion above directly above the counter right is the one that is in that image
that I was showing before yeah that's the condition C1A that's currently in the order there's not an eastern one i just want to make sure okay that's the No when you said remove the western one I was like was there one right behind it that we're not addressing okay just make
sure thanks you're welcome okay so with that we have a motion did we have a second okay and this is the certificate of appropriateness let me call the role mr meyer this is just certificate
we're not discussing signage yet mr braslin yes miss Carmargo yes miss Levelvel yes mr stewart yes okay that's been approved with those conditions and then the second motion would be for the
variance the variance and and you agreed to um a condition of the variance that the sign is not does not extend over the property line yes we agree but beyond the property line we request that it can be in the front side back though right
okay so we will put a condition so that means there is no variance now right correct but we have a variance that we have to approve well no there would be still a different It would be a different I think you deny the variance over the variance the variance is required because the minimum
required setback for a detached sign is 5 ft it sounds like the board is okay with the variance as long as it doesn't encroach past their property line toward Collins Avenue so so they would not need a a irrevocable permit from the city commission correct but they would still
need a variance yes yes okay so do I have a motion to approve the variance with that condition i make a motion to approve the variance with the condition that the sign will stay within the property line
i second the motion okay let me call the role miss Levelvel yes mr brlin yes mr meyer yes miss Cargo yes mr stewart yes great thank you all for your time thank you very much all right well
um okay we could take one more item before we break for lunch if if everyone's okay with that okay our next application let's see is HPB 240632 this is uh 1730 Jefferson Avenue
i'm going to turn it over to Jake for the staff recommendation thank you Jeffy the subject single family home was constructed in 1938 and designed by architect Alexander Lewis in the art deco style of architecture the applicant is requesting approval for the
construction of attached one-story addition to the existing home and the construction of a rooftop addition to the existing rear accessory building and related variances staff has no objection to the design of the additions which will not be visible from Jefferson Avenue but does have concern with
modifications proposed for the primary facade of the home the existing front facade is substantially intact and the proposed modifications are not consistent with the original design as such staff recommends that the primary facade be retained and restored consistent with
available historic documentation um additionally the applicant is requesting nine variances yeah um let's see so variances one and
two are associated with the maximum lot coverage the maximum lot coverage is 30% um they are proposing to exceed that by uh
5% they're also proposing to exceed the maximum unit size which is 50% by 2.9% um staff would note that the if the existing residents were located outside of a district the home would be eligible
um for incentives if they're retaining the home um that are not eligible if you're in a historic district so the retention of most homes including individually designated historic homes outside of districts do have these
incentives if the incentives were in place here which is currently um under consideration that it will be um under consideration by the planning board to extend these incentives um so people do feel um that it's possible to
retain these homes if it was extended to homes contributing homes in historic districts they would not require these variances um so the variances are relatively minimal staff does believe that the retention of the existing home
is a practical difficulty to support both of these um variances variances three and four are to maintain the existing non-conforming setbacks to the home to construct an attached addition also they're they're
proposing to construct an elevated terrace and pool deck uh the existing setbacks are 4.83 83 along the south side and 4.85 along the north side where 7 foot6
is required um typically again for for historic homes outside of historic districts you would be able to maintain and an add-on to the property at a 5-ft setback as long as the existing home was at least 5T that's what we see
historically throughout the city um whether in a district or not the older homes had five foot side setbacks we believe and we've seen this before that it's often the case that the intent potentially was to have 5 foot setbacks for this home but when it was built it
was actually not exactly 5 ft um so regardless um the the variances three and four would be required to add on to the building at the existing setback variances five six and seven are related
to the construction of the one-story rooftop addition um this is on the existing onestory accessory building at the rear of the property the existing building has setbacks of 7 ft on the north side
and almost 8 feet on the south side and uh 11.34 ft on the rear um however twostory accessory buildings have greater required setbacks than a one-story accessory building so the required setback is a minimum of 10 on
the sides for the second story um adding the second story triggers this and 15 ft on the rear since all of the existing setbacks do not meet the minimum requirements for the two-story home they would need the variances um to construct
the second story on the accessory building um further along the south side of the accessory building the applicant is proposing to construct a new open stair um to access the second level this increases the southside setback variance
request um staff is supportive of variances five and six due to the p practical difficulties of retaining the existing accessory building and just expanding it um however variance number seven uh this is the one for the stair
um we believe the stair can be relocated within the existing setback and so that we don't we don't believe that it's necessary and we think it's just um it just adds to the the level of variance that they need um finally variances
eight and nine are related to the intro are also related to the introduction of the stair uh variance 8 is to reduce by 8.7% the minimum required rear yard open space um the required open space is
70% so they're requesting the that be reduced to 61.3% and variance 9 is to exceed by 36.3% the maximum lot coverage of the accessory building within the required
rear yard um the the maximum lot coverage within the rear yard is 25% they are proposing to provide a lot coverage of 61.3% um in summary staff believes that
the vast majority of these variances are warranted and will enable the the retention of the existing home to be and for for an expanded living area um but we are asking for the stair variance
which is number seven to be modified um to not increase the request so in summary we're supportive of the project we would we do feel very strongly that the the front of the building should be restored to its original design um and
with that uh we have we're available for any questions if you have yeah thank you very much just um one second any questions for Debbie there was a lot of information about the um about the variances um I was just going
to ask about eight um variances eight and nine the very last ones i I believe you said that if the stair um was moved to the north the stair in the auxiliary building was moved to the north side um is that what you meant by
that um you do you do not believe eight and nine are variances eight and n Jake you're going to do that yeah if they elim if they eliminate the stair on the the south side of the accessory buildings they wouldn't need those variances they wouldn't need eight and nine okay so they retain their existing non that one small change moving that
stair from the south side to the north side would eliminate variances seven eight and nine from the south side to the east side to the east side would um to the east i thought it was to the No we're telling we're recommending to move the stair from the south setback to the
east setback kind of in front of the accessory building um but they still would need variance seven to build on top of the existing building we're just reducing it to eliminate the stair correct on the mic on the mic on the mic you're
proposing the stairs between the pool and the accessory building correct yeah and that will eliminate three variances okay i just wanted to clarify that and then um I assume you have your presentation and you'll be walking us through this as well so thank you
welcome welcome guys um my name is Adam Herrera with DJ Architecture here representing Dr thomas Hill and Rico Gamboa the owners of the property um first I would just like to say thank you very much to to Debbie and Jake they're they're incredibly wonderful to work
with um so yes um 1730 Jefferson This is just our index sheet as they have explained the variances we're requesting and the reasons for them um the the pond district you know historic district that we're located
in and again more more of the RS4 the zoning and all this is how the house used to look back in you know 1938 is a modern streamline architecture it's a very beautiful home and you know the owners would would love to to get
the process going more information on historical research this is the updated survey as they have mentioned we're we're looking to keep all the existing setbacks you know to the south to the north for the existing house and for the existing
guest home the original microfilm and the record card for the property and just some permit history that we found for the original gate um the new driveway and and the pool and some landscaping that was done
throughout the time this is how the home looks as of today um when when we got hired for this project originally the owner had gone through another team that unfortunately left them hanging which had caused the
project to to receive some spalling and the reason for the spalling is I'm not sure if you can see my mouse but the the eyebrows from this little corner here and then the back rear eyebrow had caused spalling to to two to two to win two windows again more more present as the
house and the guest house stand as of today this is the the street and the the and the of Jefferson the homes adjacent to it as you can see all the homes have you know either more of a architectural style of a Spanish or more of a standard
modern but nothing that compares to 1730 Jefferson this is uh to the existing diagrams as you can see the the lot coverage is is is met by the house as it stands today the front yard space the
existing open space does not meet the minimum requirements of today and the same goes for the rear yard as the house is today it does not meet the rear yard requirements for open space um as as Debbie mentioned the existing unit size also meets the
requirements as it stands today and our proposed so our proposed unit size that's one of the variances we're requesting because we're exceeding the percentage um this is the house you know the dimensions the the interior design and
and the dimensions on the outside and the layout internally and this is the proposed alteration so on the front facade really we're we're keeping the original openings the you know the original facade the same goes for the left side and on the right side we're we're we're
looking to expand and that's where we need you know the variance because we're going to line it up with the existing carport to to the east and that's the proposed you know proposed design and really it's it's mainly on the rear portion of the house
and to the side of the house that we're doing most of the work and this is the existing roof plan and the proposed roof plan again you know we're we're expanding the house towards the back and towards the side this is the guest house as it as it stands today it's a one story with a
flat roof again minor modifications on the on the exteriors just blocking up the windows because the owners would not like to be looking at their neighbors they want privacy from their neighbors and that's the proposed you know second floor and interior
alterations to the ground floor and again minimal windows towards the back minimal you know exits to the back again to keep their privacy from their neighbors this is the elevations you know side by side um in the front again the alterations are minimal it's really
just windows being modernized and the eyebrows being being modernized on the rear is where we are you know demoing the existing opening to widen that opening and getting rid of the parapid handrail detail to to bring it up to more modern standards as the owners
would like and that's the proposed rear with a you know hand glass rail rather than a a parapit handrail and along the front again more modern windows and and and doors on the side is really it's just
blocking up two windows and you know raising the eyebrows again so that they're not right above the windows and on the opposite corner is where we were you know making the addition to to be behind the carport um this is the guest house as mentioned it it's has substantial you know we
remove the w the the roof obviously to add the second story you know blocking up the windows to the rear and alterations to to most of the openings and that would be the proposed you know twotory remodel here just to begin to get more
perspective with renderings the materiality is you know a white stuckle banding for the color of the house u modern you know metal eyebrows and coral coral rock for the heartscape on the ground floor and and accent walls this would be the look of the
front of facade just a little more perspective to the right to see the addition you know behind the carport where we were looking to keep you know that existing setback and this would be the rear of the house where again that's where they're looking to make more of their adjustments per se and the goal is to
kind of hug you know the pool where they want to have their gatherings for their families and really it's just to keep everything within that pool area guest house and main house that's the guest house looking from the main house to the back and that's where most of the alterations are made to the actual guest house this is
the staircase that they were mentioning that is infringing on the setback to to the side again we would bring up everything up to code the the landscaping you know new trees new hedges again to buffer the neighbor we're aware of our neighbors to the rear our neighbors to the right and
to the left privacy is obviously a concern and this is a perspective so you can see the full site um since it's my first time doing this in the city of Cork it was I wasn't really aware that you can send modifications before you know to suggestions so after discussing with the
owner and you know Debbie and Jake have been helpful and they had me mentioned their their their changes that they would like to make the owners had come to agreement with doing the stuckle banding and bringing that back they also were okay with doing the windows and doors with the divisions with the mutens and the mullions they're okay with that
one as well and they were also okay with relocating the staircase so that we don't need that that variance i just wasn't aware you can make those changes prior to to being here um I have printed some pictures i didn't get a chance i don't know if I can show you how the house used to look
they might be able to catch it on a how the house used to look yes and they would like and they would like they would like the same landscape the landscaping to be to that standard when they bought the home that's how it looked and they would like that privacy okay so that's that's it
for me i'll pass some up thank you um All right that concludes your presentation fantastic thank you very much um and um are there any uh questions for
the applicant you have a variance where you're going with the second floor on the auxiliary building but a second floor would require a different setback than you currently have correct correct and we have a letter from your neighbor from
behind that's very much against that second floor um and we have to really consider that um and I just don't know what what you might have to say about that no correct we're aware that we we did reach out to the neighbors to the
rear and to our sides and they we we spoke or or an email oh sorry i mean I'm mistaken that I received the email on Friday i mistaked you for somebody else sorry um we we didn't get a chance to speak to you sorry um but the reason for
for that second story addition for the owners is that they would like their children and grandchildren to be able to visit them the house only has two bedrooms and they really just want that extra second floor for two extra bedrooms so that everybody can stay within the same home that's really the
sole reason for it um you know Dr thomas Hill travels a lot he's and he just wants to gather his family once a year you know or twice a year here that's the only hardship I guess for that and we obviously understand you know being able we'll get we'll get to the um
public comment in a minute but are there any other questions for the applicant questions specifically for them okay so um with that we will move to um
disclosures board disclosures just receiving letters from As we all did as we all did yes exactly um any any disclosures here no all right then uh let's open it to
the public comment um anyone on Zoom please raise your hand anyone in the audience please come forward might be the only person hi how are you thank you so much for hearing from me my name is David Atel uh I I am the uh person in the back
uh behind the on the west hand side I guess west hand direction west direction um uh obviously I think there were just a couple things that we thought were of note uh one thing is that this is a
neighborhood very prone to flooding uh and so obviously the neighbors are worried about uh water absorption into the property i think that's something you really do need to take into account when you look at the variances and then the other one is obviously you know that
is also budding our backyard where our pool is where our kids play and we were of course worried about uh you know what the imposition of a second floor on the guest house would do uh to our property in that sense in the sense of sight
lines but also light noise that sort of thing so that's our our comment we actually had not heard from the owners uh we became aware of this last week so apologies for the very late email on the subject so and I'm reachable and I'm happy to give you my contact information
i apologize as necessary that's my com thank you so much thank you hi again i'm Rogers MDPL uh we appreciate the investment in this contributing single family home in the historic Palm View
neighborhood however we have a few concerns and modifications of the original architectural features particularly the removal of distinctive racing stripes that were on the original stuckle band stuckle band yeah which which you sound like you addressed which
is great and the facade we also have concerns about the proposed lighting fixtures on the front gate style understood and uh which should be more compatible with historic character we encourage you to work with the staff any modifications re in respect to architectural integrity
of the original structure it sounds like you're listening thank you no okay thank you um on Zoom we have Chris Glo hi Chris do you swear or affirm the testimony you'll give in this proceeding is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
i I don't see him anymore chris are you are you still on Zoom no no all right is that it for we'll close public comment and um now we'll go
to well you can make any rebuttals if you want to any of the comments that you heard mr chair I think we're having technical difficulties i think Chris has his hand back up okay Chris
thank you so much sorry about that i do swear um Chris you need to be sworn in go ahead chris do you swear that the testimonial given this proceeding is the truth told truth and nothing but the truth i do thank you you have three
minutes thank you my name is Chris Glo and I'm a homeowner and a neighbor of this property in the historic Palm View neighborhood a lot of what you heard today about the concerns of the facade are exactly my concerns i do appreciate the owner and the architect willing to
adjust and preserve the facade i just want to reiterate that there are a number of items on that facade that uh and I want to confirm that all of those will be preserved i did detail them in the letter that I sent to the HPB on Friday and I it's difficult because we
haven't seen the updated drawings to know if they are all there so I hope that there'll be an opportunity for neighbors and staff to review the updated drawings and ensure that the entrance door and stoop are preserved the windows the eyebrows the racing stripes the gable vents which I've not
heard mentioned today no changes to the overhang and I'm also adding to the discussion the what I believe is an incompatible sidewalk wall pedestrian gate and car gate so I'm hopeful that those can also be adjusted to reflect the styling of the original home i do
not object to the wall the gate and and the two gates i just object to the styling thank you for your time thank you um now I see no further people okay thank you very much um would you
like to make any comments uh based on any of the u public comments that you heard may I respond yes you may respond yes now is the time um the owners believe me they're aware of your concerns they they respect privacy their main goal is to have privacy um but to
his point to the right of 1730 Jefferson there's a two-story apartment condo building um which sees completely into their property all we're really trying to do again is hug the pool create a a sense of oasis for their family that
only faces the pool towards his side even though we are adding a second story there's only two windows which happen to be in the bathroom so the concern for visibility we are aware and we we we we're trying to not see your house and
then the the sliding glass doors for both the ground floor and the second floor are only facing the pool again because the only reason to go up is to go to sleep it there really is no other reason um now as far as the the m the Chris his neighbor we're also we're okay
with um you know the front low wall and front gates being more in line with the house the only one that we would object to is the eyebrows the reason for I don't know if we can put the screen back on but the reason for the eyebrows not being adjacent to the window anymore the
reason for raising them is because it causes issues with waterproofing um and that's the main main when we acquired this project and began to work with the with the owners this window and this eyebrow had significant water damage because the eyebrow was not properly
sealed so in order to avoid that happening again we raised the eyebrow 20 in that that really is the only reason to to do so um and I that that's really the only objection we have can you put the original the image of that original
facade up so we can kind of see what he's talking about it's page 11 so you see how the eyebrow is hugging the window oh sorry i don't know if you can see yes yes oh the the eyebrow hugs the window so that detail
causing issues not only on this side but also on the rear side back here and to avoid that occurring again because the owners you know they're they're worried about water damage and water intrusion we raised the eyebrow um there is no other reason than that
matter of fact and the gable he mentioned the gable i think he said gable dense but he might mean the scuppers above yeah oh fair true i I apologize i forgot about that so there was these big scuppers along the front these big rectangular scuppers we
minimized them because again we're we're dealing with the water in a different way so this is just an emergency sculper it's no longer where the main water is going to it's going to the sides now and again to try to avoid the issue with waterproofing along the front facade great all right thank you very much did
you have another question well just that you know eyebrows were originally over the window for for shade so putting the eyebrow up 20 in really serves no purpose other than a decorative strip i I would be against that um not only is
the eyebrow yes for aesthetic purposes but now it's also providing shade to the same lower window and the above window just again trying to avoid that same occurrence to happen in the future for for the owner you know there's they're spending significant amount of money to
re um how do you say repair and and redo their home and we don't want this to happen in their lifetime once again that's that's all and we have another qu you all right we have another question here this one okay you know so how did you get to the 20 in magic number oh um
just for so the house looks symmetrical from the bottom and the top basically like oh sorry um you know to have the same width from below as above because I think the original design had an elegance to it with the relationship between windows eyebrows and space
between and by intersecting the space right in the middle like you did you kind of lose that elegance that you can see in the traditional design so I'm I'm not sure about the technical need because I think nowadays construction is much better than in the days that they
used to be made when they mix sand in the concrete so for so I believe there are ways nowadays that you could rebuild the eyebrows in the same location and not have water intrusion but I don't want to be blamed for the decision so if you feel like strongly that you need to
raise the eyebrow to avoid future damage I would at least encourage you to raise the minimum needed to waterproof and finish the window head as needed to avoid issues but not to intersect like you did because I think you lost the rhythm of the
I can agree with you i I I do agree the rhythm and the balance of the home is is different in our proposal um maybe to keep that balance the same way as the original home intended we wouldn't raise it 20 in maybe more like 8 in or 10 in
if that's okay uh Lindsay you have a question yeah so um I mean look in my line of work I deal with a lot of water intrusion and waterproofing issues and this that and the other but never before have I heard we can't do this because of the water intrusion and the and the
waterproofing issues especially when you're doing a reconstruction like that you know when you're remodeling like this um so did you cons I mean did you consult with an engineer or waterproofing person to to see whether or not it could be maintained um yes yes
so originally these eyebrows actually were made out of wood um that's another reason why they they failed and the ones we were proposing were coming out from the same slab so the slab projecting from the second floor is the same slab projection for the eyebrow it was just a
continuation of the of the gesture um if we were to drop them to the 8 in 10 inches it it would be maybe a different material um but but there there is significance and and there is we um how do you say we went we submitted a permit to do a repair which we had to stop when
we started working with the planning department and the house almost incurred a violation because of the previous team the owners had hired and believe me we we we tried to repair it but it didn't make sense to repair this if we were going to be doing this substantial amount of work to the back of the house
as well well I I mean I maybe maybe I should rephrase my question i meant more along the lines of in the revised design could you not have reinccorporated the eyebrows as they were in the you know prior to the redesign I guess is my
point um I mean I would expect that someone would say that yes that is possible i I know uh Miss Margaret Hair didn't want to be the person responsible for that um yeah I mean I do too it is possible it's just there is a highly
more of a probability of of of water issues that's that's all it the truth um and that's why we're okay with lowering the distance of of the window to the eyebrow both on the second floor and on the on the ground floor but again we're we're trying to mitigate any any of
these future issues from occurring again that's that's all we're trying to do we want them to have a home that they're going to live there for their lifetime and hopefully for their children that's that's all okay um I think that draws to the conclusion our questions for you so if
you'd like to sit down you're welcome to do so um and we'll have a a board discussion about uh what's possible and we'll call you back up if you sorry that's okay what's that can I stand i have if that's what I'm saying of course if you prefer okay i just
didn't want you to think you were always on call and uh for this to answer questions so uh any any board comment does anybody want to start um these guys bury in there nothing additions nothing additions okay the only concern I have
is the um addition on the rear house uh being so close to the property line and um raising that building to a height of 22 feet the setback is about 11 ft so it's 2:1 i mean you're going to be
looming over the gentleman's pool you're going to cut off his sun early morning sun he's not going to get any sun in his pool until 1:00 in the afternoon and I don't think that's what he's calling for that's not what he bought the house for so in light of that I would not support
any addition on that second floor that's how the building was bought if they bought the property that way they should be able to live with it knowing that uh they can't affect the quality of life of their neighbors to better enjoy their property i don't think that's fair
that's what I have to say okay thank you yes yes please she's for staff anybody so the the request for the unit size variance that includes the addition of the accessory
unit plus the addition on the main structure yes yes and what would be the required rear setback for an accessory unit in that neighborhood can you mic on the mic i can barely hear you for a twostory which is what they're
proposing it's 15 feet and they're providing 11 feet which is the existing correct um 11.34 ft which is the existing 4T into the back thank you
so without the without the second story they would how many variances would they ultimately need because they would need a stair they wouldn't need would there be any if the second story were to be eliminated completely i think they would
still for their deck for the pool deck they would still need those um setback variances is that correct if the if the onetory rooftop edition was eliminated they would still need variances one through four one through four okay
um well I I'll Does anybody else have any comments i was going to make a comment that it just this uh a project like this um it has a lot of merits i just think it's needs a little bit more um kind of
connection in my opinion is it might need more conversation with neighbors it might need more uh kind of another pass like we never saw the really what the final drawings look like with the with the staff's recommendations in it um
maybe maybe if we continued this um towards a date certain uh it might give them time to bring uh neighbors together around it maybe there are certain things like a you know green wall or something like this could which could be proposed for the back of that um that building
which isn't going to bring sunlight back but it will bring more greenery but that's just my thoughts on this anybody jump in Lindsay i I would support to continue and and I would would reiterate my comments on about the eyebrows um
just for purposes of you know in discussion with staff and in further revision if you can come up with a way that gets us closer to um you know the historic facade and the maint maintenance of that um I think you
would it would go a long way in front of this board or um so I would support a continuence and and I'm happy to make a motion but if somebody else wants to speak up before we do that then that's No I I would I If you move to continue it I would
second that and and and particularly what we've discussed that gentleman right over there has to say he's okay with the second floor or I will never vote for it it's as simple as that so I would like I think we I we should
give him some guidance changes there have been a number of things that we've been talking about so why don't you why don't you start to kind of list that these will be in the and are you okay with this i mean this option to be able to go back and really present the package and talk to the neighbors and I
only have one question when would that be for I guess we could work we could work with you with Debbie on that because it's a few thing they're draw they're drawings but there's some design there's some design work too yeah I I would recommend it be the June 17th meeting we don't I don't we don't have
enough time between now and May exactly to review the drawings yeah i only want to make something known that we have an extension for that spalling violation till August I think 13th so obviously we're constant on time to to work with
one and the other will this June should June should work right nothing later I guess yes no of course okay got it okay he's fine with June so do you want to start articulating some of the things that um Yeah i mean I mean for me it has
to do with the maintenance of the front facade um uh the eyebrows specifically um you know those are those are the things that I that I would like to see um and and and I agree with Ry i I know you said that you disagree but I agree
with Ry i mean they served a purpose and they still to this day serve a purpose which is providing shading you know over those windows right and you move them over like just geometrically move them up geometrically you you lose some of that shading because the angle of the
sun just practically speaking um so so that would be um my that would be the portion that I want what else do we want to include and I can incorporate in my motion but I think it's better that we kind of talk this through get it written down and then we can include it in the
motion we'll see the changes the staff make Right and the changes that staff made so the moving of the stair to eliminate at least three of the variances okay i don't know if Demy's okay with that and the fence so re
um that wasn't an initial staff recommendation but you know supportive of a of a fence design that was more consistent with the architectural character of the building okay okay so I would move that we continue to the June
meeting thank you june 17th uh the June 17th meeting um with um the expectation that the applicant work with staff between now and then to um you know maintenance of the front
facade uh the eyebrows specifically um the and then incorporate the staff recommendations as far as the stair um and then the fence did I miss anything or is that enough is that enough for you does that
give you enough guidance i guess that's the really Yeah just to I guess to confirm right really yeah i mean the point the point of them that information is so that you have the guidance of what we're looking for when you come back so that's really the more important part um okay
and just to clarify um the on the the second floor on the rooftop edition the rooftop the rooftop addition is is allowed under the code the applicant can seek approval for a rooftop addition so um you know it it is appropriate though
for the board to to ask for changes obviously within the scope of the appropriateness criteria so would you like to give any direction to the applicant with regard to the second floor i think the second floor sorry
the second floor if you you can shift that eastward to the 22 foot6 yard set back and can lever over the eastern wall of the ground floor you could achieve the same thing but then you'd be set back 22
and 1/2 ft from the property line not 11 ft i think that might be something you want to consider and I don't know if the gentleman the owner to your west would agree but I think that would might be one solution
that would work okay so for him or future owners um we we can look into it yes this is just this one yeah i would recommend that you try options with the second floor that's what the owner requests and
that you do what you can this is a great a great start into looking into that talking to your neighbor but I didn't have any I I didn't have any requested not look at it i I would say you could leave it where it's at if your
neighbor approves if he doesn't approve then you have to can it over so you're not asking for a variance on the second floor yeah I think from a design standpoint and to keep the integrity of the house you following the existing line makes
sense um one continuous line but yes and I when we're encroaching to setbacks having the next door neighbor approval it's fundamental okay and and sorry just to clarify the board is of course encouraged to consider uh
input from the from the neighboring property owners but your decision must be based on the on the criteria the decision is yours exactly Yeah okay so that was a motion to continue to the June 17th meeting and we had a second all those in favor i I I Do we
need a second motion for the variances no the entire application contin Thank you thank you for presenting okay but this is like an hour long oh yeah yeah yeah we'll break for 15
minutes oh that's one okay we will come back shortly after 1:00 yeah just so people are here
chaos please stand by we are going on air in 5 4 3 2 1 okay welcome back everyone um we are going to move on to our next uh application i'm actually going to read
um two applications into the record these are both for 1020 Pennsylvania um Avenue the first uh application is HPB25647 uh this is an application that has been is requesting a modification to
a previously issued certificate of appropriateness for the after-act demolition of the previously existing buildings on the site specifically the applicant is requesting the deletion of condition C1 of the final order the next
application is HPB 240618 uh this is an application for a certificate of appropriateness for the construction of a multifamily residential building on a vacant lot including one or more waiverss so we'll take the dem the
modification of the demolition first in 2014 the existing building was demolished as a result of an unsafe structures violation um on June 10th 2014 the board reviewed and approved an after-the-act certificate of appropriates for demolition subject to
conditions including condition C1 which states "Any future development on the site shall not exceed the total square footage of the previous structures the new owner of the property has submitted a separate application to redevelop the site with a new multif family building which exceeds the total square footage
of the previous structure by approximately 4,100 square ft and is requesting to modify the final order to eliminate this condition staff has evaluated the new building and finds that is appropriately scaled and masked in a manner consistent with the neighboring two and three-story
buildings and the surrounding historic district further if condition C1 remains it may not be economically feasible to redevelop the site as any new structure would be limited to approximately 50% of the square footage permitted by code in light of the fact that the lot has
remained vacant for over 10 years and has had increasingly adverse impact on the surrounding historic district staff has no objection to the deletion of this condition so the next application is for the certificate appropriateness for the new
multif family building a new three-story multif family residential building is proposed to be constructed consisting of six parking spaces at the ground level and six multi-level residential units on the upper floors staff is generally supportive of the building design which has been developed in a manner that
appropriately responds to the architectural character of the historic district and is consistent with the height scale and massing of the surrounding neighborhood staff has two recommendations regarding the design first staff recommends that the oversized projecting overhang at the
third level facing Pennsylvania Avenue be reduced to lessen the perceived mass of the building second staff recommends that the covered walkway canopy within the front yard be redesigned to include a detachable roof staff is supportive of the design of this element but as
currently configured without a detachable roof it is not an allowable yard encroachment finally the applicant is seeking approval of a waiver related to the height of the covered parking area at the ground level the RM1 zoning district requires a minimum height of 12
feet above base flood elevation plus 1 foot when parking is located below the first habitable level however the board may wave this requirement by up to 2 feet staff is supportive of the two-foot height waiver request as this minor reduction in height helps to ensure
greater compatibility with the adjacent lowscale contributing buildings and is recommending approval thank you are there any questions for staff about this um I had a I had a question Debbie uh I wasn't on the board
I don't think in 2014 and don't rem I don't remember this um do you remember any of the conditions uh surrounding the or the context surrounding the requirement that the um that the new construction not exceed
the demolished buildings uh so when when the after the fact demo was brought before the board at that time uh there was not a replacement design proposed um the presumption in our code
is that the board um impose a condition at the time there there are currently two presumptions at the time there was one presumption the one presumption at the time was that in any new building shall not exceed the
square footage of the previously existing building the height or the height of the previously existing building um so that was presumed and was not was not um adequately rebutted by the applicant part of the rebuttal
process is a replacement design um so the presumption was that any new building not exceed the size of the previously existing building and that's how the order um was entered um it you know we have seen
uh over many years 10 over 10 years now um we had seen one proposal that actually submitted they ended up withdrawing we've seen multiple ownership changes of this property um we've been discouraged because we do
want to see a good building here in my previous conversations with uh previous potential buyers is that with it you know they would ultimately be reduced to about a 0.57 F that it didn't make financial sense to develop the property
with that limited F um you know that anyone always has the opportunity to request a modification to that um and we have an owner now who is requesting that modification in order to construct a a building that's at you know closer to
the 1.25 allowable F and in your experience is the um is the um is it generally in your experience have you seen a number of cases in which the in which a restriction on the building on the building size and footprint from a
previous owner has been kept or changed or they I've seen numerous occasions where later they they request a modification in conjunction with a new project and the board would approve the the removal of of such condition okay
thank you so good afternoon good afternoon um my name is Jose Sanchez from Practis Architecture Design Principal for Practis and I will be presenting the in more the about the new building the
proposal for the new building the owner Octavio Rinaldi joining me here today and he can um he can provide more details as far as the technicalities of the of the um and
and the legality of uh the the changes in the ordinance um I will if you could please bring up the presentation okay so the this is the uh project for 1020 pen um six units multif
family on a 7,000 square foot lot it has been uh designed with a contextual uh design in in mind and walking through the um street and trying to maintain the the identity and the the the main
elements of the existing properties i'll walk you through the um existing properties now this is the the area in Pennsylvania and well most of the uh projects are
two-story walk up apartments from I would imagine this 50s uh you know as basic as it gets for for housing with uh exterior stairs on one side and but you can see some of the elements of our version of our deco in in these images
with uh the concrete screens the um pastel or muted colors and there are a couple of Mediterranean in the mix a Mediterranean revival and then uh this is our our project that incorporates some of the
elements um that that we saw in in the area but I would say in a in a modern version or a 2.0 version uh with um the um hor horizontal elements it's actually
the the facade is about the contrast between one side more solid with two horizontal strip windows and and eyebrows which are prevalent in the area contrasting with a a corner window with
a more glazing and more glaze area for the balconies and um and that's and the in the in the main volume and has an accent wall in um uh mute or toned down uh green color
that will add character to the project while the rest is in neutral colors in a bone color and top that will blend with the rest of the neighborhood and and contribute to it and we then we have
um some uh projecting canopies in the upper roof and at the entrance as um as accent to provide accent and um this is uh basically the rear elevation towards the alley but it's the same as the front
one and in this view one can see uh the volumes of the project in more detail in the the upper level so it's um um building with um the typology of town town houses or multi-level at triplex
unit on top of parking with the stairs on the side similar to the existing projects these are the sides of the property all the technical drawings floor plans um self evident and and with the upper um upper uh family
room so it's uh basically um a a new housing uh that we think blends with the neighborhood but with uh improved uh spaces to the extent that the lot allows it's a there are two
bedroomedroom units not very large with a common living area in the second floor and then bedrooms and then the uh extra space in the in the third level of roof terrace and this is the view from the front which is similar to the rear with
the canopy and that should be modified right and that's essentially the project and we're very excited about this and we welcome any comments or feedback from the board
okay thank you very much um are there any questions from board members for the applicant go ahead Ray my my typical question is this an apartment building or a condominium apartment buildings okay
so so you mean their rent their rentals yes i see any other questions lindsay I I have a question um because one of the first things you showed and you have a slide in here um but the materials and like the the color scheme talk to me
about how you guys chose that um as it relates to the neighborhood well but uh the the it's it's more like the colors scheme because it's it's mostly plaster with paint and it it was
um um selected by by walking and looking at the neighborhood which which we already knew where of course and also working in conjunction with the um HPV staff i think at one point we had a a
version that was probably more faithful to the to the historic buildings in all of their components and um and colors and proportions and then uh it it went back and forth and the different discussions about color and that it
could be a little bit more modern so it was a a process to get to this okay thank you um did you know you probably saw in the staff report that there were a couple of recommendations to want to reduce you meant you even kind of mentioned at the
overhang um to reduce that have you there's also um a question about making the covered walkway in the front a non um something that was non uh that was a detachable roof like structure have you have you thought about those
recommendations uh no those recommendations were very recent oh okay or actually there there was another person at the office that was in in charge of the project and so but we will comply with whatever is required if it makes sense um of of course and we can
work with um HP staff to that end all right thank you very much i think we'll um now go to will disclosures any disclosures on this project no no no no
no okay and now we'll open it to public comment roger just for the afternoon can you say your whole name and it just because last time I think some people walked in they might not have Miami Design Preservation Board my
address I think we people thought you were Roger again like like that was your name oh sorry about that okay um MDPL poses the request to delete the condition the the house is
actually quite nice uh limiting the square footage of any new development on this side the condition was put in place after the original structure was demolished by emergency order the property was purchased with this restriction in place and moving it now would really set a dangerous precedent
towards other projects other properties um in historic districts where demolition by neglect has occurred we must maintain consequences for demolition by neglect to preserve the integrity of our historic districts it's
like you know there's rules and regulations for reasons and sometimes a lot of people think that they're they're very flexible and thank you thank you anyone on Zoom please raise your hand i
see no other public comment all right um would you like to respond to the Yes absolutely i mean I I understand about um complying with all the regulations that's something we always try to do in this case we are only requesting a waiver for the height of the garage
which makes sense because it's a very small building and I I totally understand but the um they our new owner my my client before purchasing the property had communication with um Miami Miami Beach
zoning I believe with between his attorney and Miami Beach staff and it it had been agreed that it would be that limitation would be removed
no I I'm going to just clarify um we did meet with the applicants um we did advise them of the previous order and the current restriction we also advise them that there is a process
um to modify that condition and we would you know pending our review of a a new proposed project that staff would would likely support the modification of that condition as this
this property has been a vacant property for over 10 years which is causing a very negative impact on the surrounding historic district and we do believe the best um the best uh course forward is a
new highquality building that's within the scale and context of of the existing neighborhood um we do not want to see this property uh vacant going forward thank you for clarification i'm not I'm
familiar with all the details but there I understand that there have been some conversations between my client can I ask sure yes hi how are you everyone uh my name is Octavia Roli i'm the developer and I I would like to add that Debbie
Tet said before i agree with her when we uh we saw the property we uh made uh communication with the board I mean with the staff of Miami Beach and and I see our attorneys uh did communication with
Debbie I think or part of the Deb staff and and as she said uh of course that we have to pass the process and we have to submit a new project and and show uh you know the uh the board so we we didn't
receive a a yes uh so we have to do our job so just to clarify great thank you okay uh thank you very much i think if there are no other questions for you um Debbie can we kind of talk about both of
these at the same time in the same thing okay got it because there are no variances there's one waiver uh to the two feet which you do do you want to kind of just clarify that since it was going um sure so the um the resiliency
standards in our code for the RM1 um do say that the the space between design for parking levels under a building that they they be 12 feet in height above
design flood elevation which in this case is nine um the board for contextual reasons is able to modify that this is a very lowcale neighborhood by allowing that waiver of two feet it it does bring uh the perceived height of the building
lower um so in it is a small lot it's a single lot um we do think that the the waiver is warranted and are supportive okay thank you um so I guess we get to um board comment does anybody want to
make a comment about this um about any part of this you're getting there anybody on this side right just that I like the design i'm happy it's not white okay thank you i have a comment i I like
the design i think it's well thought out but it looks like we're trying to stuff you know five pounds of feathers into a one pound bag here um the driveway you show is 19 feet minus minus in other words remove the columns and you're left
with like 18 foot for a two-way driveway these are very tight and what's dictating this parking layout is the number of spaces that you require based upon the units that you're providing right well I believe we're not required any space in this area for smaller
apartment units so I understand it's it's very tight i suppose that was a a concession made to to make some of these small lots more more appealing and and buildable um they are very very tight i
I understand but we are limited within these headbacks and we had discussed uh dimensions uh back and forth and one more question I have of Debbie how much are we exceeding the total square footage based on the original uh constraints it's a great question we
don't have a precise of the previously existing building we do believe it was approximately 4,000 square feet the previous building so they're now asking for 8600 correct about 8600
so about 4,000 about doubling essentially more than doubling correct so what's driving this is the economics the property val the cost of the property dictating what they're building on there right in other words the owner is saying I want X and you have to build
so many to make it worthwhile yes I get it all right I'm done okay um anybody else have uh just want to clarify something Daddy um by law like
by code if there were no history on this lot uh how much they could build based on current zoning they could build um a 1.25 F they're currently proposing a
1.3 a 1.23 excuse me okay so they'd be able to build probably I haven't done the exact math but 8,800 close to 9,000 square feet square feet okay so they're actually a little below the maximum they're slightly below
the maximum yes lindsay did you have any comments that you'd like to make to the board about your feelings about this project okay then um I I guess I'll just add that um I you
know I understand this um I understand the the you know the the challenges to you know you place a an order on a site and you expect that order to be in place when the next uh owner comes along i
think we often expect that to be relatively soon and not wait a decade after which codes have changed um requirements have changed and a number of other you know and and the site has been empty for a long time which is obviously a a big challenge so I would
um I would be inclined to um support the staff's recommendations and it sounds like the applicant is um also um inclined to support staff's recommendations with the um you know the uh changing of the the addition of the
waiver the changing of the um reduction of the of the overhead um uh cover and then the detached uh cover on the first floor and you know I think that I'd like to uh give these
guys a chance i think they've studied the existing structures and kind of have something I agree with staff that would be compatible with what's there and um would encourage a you know a motion to
support it uh it doesn't require any variances um besides that which is not a variance but besides the chain what and just as just why is that not a a variance if you have a a limitation it it's just a you can just do a four four
vote approval yeah I think the the intent of having it be a waiver was to increase its flexibility of use right whereas variance the standards for variance are are very strict a waiver is more of a flexible design choice that
that could be made but I meant to change the square footage allowed on the site well that's not a variance that's that because they're I mean and remember they're they're not asking to exceed what would be allowable if it were a vacant lot right um this is just a the
board can modify conditions in any of their previous orders if the applica you know if a request is made got it okay thank you so I would um I would like to see that but I don't know what you guys are are feeling about this so yeah that'd be great i would love it
okay so I'll make a motion to approve um the project uh including the um comments and requests by from the historic preservation board staff
is there a second ray so how many do we needish i think we need two separate motions because they're two different file numbers um And I would think that we would probably need to take up the modification first
um and that is HPB uh 25647 and how many votes do we need to approve to approve that five five votes we need five yeah because it was in modification for an after the fact demolition that's
what I was that Okay so it's like a variance you'd need the same number of votes you need the same number okay so I'll rephrase my should I rephrase my motion so I'll make a motion for approval of HPB
[Music] 25-0647 and there were no um requirements additional here it's just an approval okay is there a second on that Ray okay okay okay that's a motion in a
second let me call the role mr meyer no miss Levelvel yes miss Carargo yes mr braslin yes mr stewart yes okay that's only four right
so that fails did not pass um and there are really no conditions there to change that so we will have to um perhaps do continue this as we said we would do
before and continue it to a time presumably May or June if we're going to continue if it's the will of the board to continue the application we would need to reconsider the previous vote and then
change and then change that yes exactly correct no I get it yes we should have made that a struggle but we need um Oh so I ask if you guys are ready to move yeah yeah yeah mr chairman on a motion to reconsider the motion must be made by
a member on the prevailing side right so that would mean the motion would need to be made by Mr meyer that's it which is your call but pardon me it's it's up to you whether you whether you make that motion but uh but in order to propose a motion to to
reconsider on I just want to clear the air what I see here happening here is I understand the lot has been vacant and I support your efforts we're trying to cram so much into such a small property at the end of the day I'm looking at these floor plans these are tiny tiny
units 10 foot by 8 foot rooms six units on this property i just don't agree with going about building such structures in Miami Beach well just just I'm sorry so what are you asking me to do now because it's going against what I believe in
terms of voting for this project i'm not asking you to do anything i'm just advising the board if you if the board wishes to reconsider the the vote on the first application which is the modification to the prior certificate of
appropriateness um that that motion to reconsider would need to be made by a member who voted on the prevailing side only you can I in order to continue anything in the future with this project that's fine if we have the
ability to come back they can come back and modify their plan i'm I'm okay with that making that motion so you have to make a motion to reconsider so the motion sounds like has been made is there a second to the motion to reconsider i will second the motion to reconsider we'll talk about
all you want to do all those in favor of the reconsideration i Okay great all right so go ahead Elizabeth lindsay oh Lindsay well I mean I I think my question was got us was going to get us where we are um so now I
think we're we've gone we've taken a step back right okay we haven't denied it but now it doesn't look like we're going to get an approval today with five votes and
so I would move that we continue the application until we have a full board and do we then have to give feedback or both applications both applications i would move that we cons we continue both
applications yes um until we have a full board um where you might have the opportunity to get your five votes that you need in order to move forward i believe the date that we would be looking at would be at least June 17th
thanks Ray um do we need to give them feedback in this sense i was only going to I was only going to recommend that you listen to what my colleague said about how you talk about the size
the apartment sizes compare it to other apartment sizes that you're looking I mean just give some context for that so it's it's understood because you're not asking for any variances on the site and you're not um you know they are is a a neighborhood of small apartments so you
maybe you kind of look at that and kind of tee that up a little tee the presentation up a little bit so it's more um you understand where you're where you're coming from and you have the redesigns that the staff are requesting already in the new in the new drawings
um because these will these questions will come back up um Right we will address yeah yeah you'll be Yeah so um should let's go for a uh can I have a motion to continue until the June
17th uh meeting the first uh the the first Can we do both at the same time oh perfect then second I didn't do it i didn't motion anybody oh you did you made the motion yeah I made a motion
second the motion okay okay okay and that's to continue both applications to the June meeting all those in favor I thank you yeah thank you okay the uh next application on the agenda
is uh HPB2300571 this is 321 Jefferson Avenue an application has been filed requesting a certificate of appropriateness for the substantial demolition of the existing building and the construction of a new multifamily residence um subject site
contains a one-story structure uh it's a contributing building constructed in 1935 designed by Lester Avery in what appears to be the masonry vernacular style it's a it's a very simple um relatively unadorned building uh it does
remain substantially intact with the exception of door and window replacements um the board did review a a proposed project um last year uh the applicant has it was in July of last year so
almost one year ago um the board had some comments um the application was ultimately deferred by the applicant and we renoticed um the application for today's meeting um since that hearing
staff has been working with the applicant um and the the design has been further evolved um including the front facade of the uh portion of the existing building has been further refined to
maintain all existing uh openings including a new decorative screening that was proposed to be introduced within those windows uh the front sight wall has been eliminated the design of the addition has also been uh further developed including the introduction of
an eyebrow at the roof level uh facing Jefferson Avenue and the introduction of a decorative louver screening in and composite wood cladding um staff is supportive of the further developed design uh which we do believe is is not
only consistent with staff's direction at the time to the applicant but also the board's uh direction we we do have uh one condition that we would like the board to consider um in terms of our recommendation that would be to extend
the side walls of the building further to the uh to connect with the new addition to to resolve what we think now is somewhat of an awkward relationship where we're just chopping the front uh of the
building off and detaching it from the new addition um we do believe that that would resol by continuing those walls to the front of the building that would resolve um an an awkward uh condition but other
than that we are supportive of the project and we are uh recommending approval happy to answer any questions you may have any questions ray or No mics's on Ray no
questions all right welcome thank you good afternoon my name is Ascar Fatty with Fatty Architects at 4620 Southwest 55 Avenue Davy uh after many meetings and
uh discussion with the staff we decided to keep the front wall of the existing designated historic building as an pedestrian entry to the building and also as a screen to
uh for the parking at ground level uh the openings as she mentioned were kept at the exact location the wall is going to be reinforced structurally the only comment I want to make about connecting this wall to the new
fourstory building i think we spoke about that the structurally I got one story wall and I've got a fourstory building i think the movement of these two elements is going to provide cracks and this this
ability for the one story screen wall we could maybe have decorative uh gates to connect it to the column at the uh ground level so it would be connected and it's not seen from the Jefferson Avenue anyways we are bringing the wall
back about 12 ft back into the site uh the building is a fourstory apartment ground level is parking uh second level has three units two bedroom units and one
bedroom uh an area for gym this third floor is got four units two two-bedroom units and two one-bedroom units on the third level we have two units of threebedroom each and the roof is
designated as a roof terrace it is screened with planter all the way around to soften the building and also provide privacy for the roof terrace uh the side facade because of the lengthy
wall of 98 ft 92 ft plus is been broken on both sides with uh uh composite uh wood cladding to kind of break in that long uh looking wall on the sides even
though they're only 5 ft away from the property but it kind of breaks that uh that wall in their accent by uh composite wood cladding i think that's pretty much explained the project if there is any
question I'll be more than happy okay are there any questions for the applicant it is white okay i just Are you the same architect that presented before i haven't been here no
oh no so the previous design was not by you uh yes it was by our office but it wasn't by me no no okay i just I just was trying to figure out it was the same no I was absent the last no no that's fine thanks you're welcome
okay um any questions for the applicant ray just is there any problem with extending the side walls back to the building that uh that uh staff is recommending no no no no i said I have no problem they're about 12 ft back in anyways they're not seen from either
side of Jefferson Avenue 5t wide setbacks but I have no problem extending it back i mean they're only like 3 ft away from the structural column they are extended back about 12
ft no no problem i mean you know they've been more than lovely to work with all right another staff it's been staff um give love to staff day so it's excellent you guys deserve You deserve
all of it everybody loves him so um any other any other any other questions for the applicants if not we will go we will go to um uh board disclosures any disclosures no disclosures and if
not if no disclosures we'll go right to the open the public hearing um anyone on Zoom please raise your hand anyone in the audience please come forward mr rober hi i'm a little confused are you still
keeping the facade keeping the what the facade yes okay okay that's on this right okay roger Goldblad mdpl i thought he moved it around a little bit uh we we actually opposed the near complete demolition of the contributing historic
building while we appreciate your efforts in redefining and refining the design with strong concerns about the limited retention of the original building lack of integration into the new structure such demolition only preserving the front facade is not the
purpose of what historic district was made for the significant increase in scale and compatible design elements failed to honor historic character the neighborhood I'm with the Miami Design Preservation thank you very much thank
you thank you i don't see any other members wishing to comment all right um then we have um Did you have anything you wanted to say in response to the MDPL no I'm fine with
that okay then now uh thank you very much we'll go to board uh comment lindsay no okay any uh any board member like to comment on this on this project
um yes Lindsay not a comment when when you're done with comment i have No no elizabeth suggest please make suggestions yes no uh I think I mean this design is much better than the one we saw before i'm
very happy that unfortunately we made you go back and think again but was for a good cause um so the only thing I would I when I look at the drawing I feel like there is this modern building sitting behind this onetory structure um
and I really like the metal railing that you are providing the openings of the existing building so I think I would like to see if possible some kind of language connection between the onestory building that you see there and the new
building that you're proposing so and you sell you have all this very linear and modern railings on the building so maybe if you could add a little detail on the corners or somewhere to have some relationship with the structure in the front i think that would be a bit
positive actually we are keeping it totally separated to show old and the new so it is purposely separated but I don't want any connection between these two there is an old one and there's a
new one a modern new one behind it yeah I understand your point but they are part of one's lot and they are kind of working together in a sense because one is the entrance to the other so that's why I thought if there would be some
kind of I'm not saying a strong connection but like a mention to well we respect the little one down there and we are back here some kind of connection i think that would be positive to the building okay thank you thank you um yes
any uh Lindsay did you have anything you want to add anybody else i'd like to comment please make a comment um your drawings show the building height to be 39 12 ft tall correct but in reality in in relationship to the
other buildings it's more like 60 feet tall almost correct no they're they're seven six next door to us i'm looking at your drawing A5 right yeah that's two building right next to us but a building right next to that
it's five story apartment building there is three of them to us if you see the pictures on the first few pages you will see the neighborhood i see the adjacent buildings being two stories or at the most three stories you're the two adjacent buildings are
two yes you're correct so you're saying that there can miss where is there five you're talking about on Jefferson on Jefferson on Jefferson south of us next to that
twostory building there's a fivetory maybe about 500 units apartment in there and right behind us there is few other off of Mary then there's a few other about four or five apartments right now
I see it i see it on 301 those were the correct those are the neighborhood pictures buildings built in the 70s or late 60s that were allowed to go to that height yes atrocious buildings yeah um so now we're repeating that with all these tall buildings in the area in a
very basically lowrise buildings two to three stories and we're coming in with essentially a five or six i totally understand your concern you're welcome thank you all right thank you very much so I think with that um Lindsay you have a comment no I have
a question for staff but if you've got comments then No I was going to I was going to talk about uh maybe crafting a motion but um around the staff recommendations but go ahead okay um I just want to clarify again we need five
votes for this application we need five because of the because of demolition because of demolition the demolition yeah and so I I appreciate that you want to craft a motion i was going to suggest that perhaps we st Yes a straw poll
would be good that's where I was going with all that absolutely let's do a straw poll to see whether how many of us would be willing to go with staff recommendations on this and um where we can go from there so
Rey yes staff recommendations to support this project this right with the with the changes with the walls coming back they are our expert opinions and they Yes they are yes okay Elizabeth yes and
Lindsay yes well yes and I'm Yes so we would have it if we took a vote we would have the Oh I just had a question does that incorporate Elizabeth's comments yes or no we The Elizabeth's comments would be
could be added to that we didn't yeah of course we could in a motion perfect do you want to Would you make a motion so I'll make a motion to approve project HPB23-0571 321 Jefferson Avenue with the
recommendations from staff and Elizabeth friendly amendment to take a look at the railings of the proposed new building and try to create some kind of communication between them and the proposed railing for the one-story
building okay that's very clear thank you um so we had a motion in a second do we have a second yet do we have a second okay let me call the role miss Levelvel yes mr meyer yes mr braslin yes miss
Carmago yes mr stewart yes thank you thank you the next application on the agenda is HPB 240610 this is 3611
3621 and 3651 Collins Avenue an application has been filed requesting a certificate of appropriateness for the construction of a new residential and hotel development located at 3611 and 3621 Collins Avenue uh the subject
unified development site currently contains three buildings uh the contributing Coral Reef Hotel located at 3611 Collins the contributing uh Patrician Hotel located at 3621 Collins
and the Beach House 8 condominium located at 3651 Collins Avenue uh the proposed scope of work for this application is limited to the the 3611 and 3621 Collins Avenue portion of the
property and includes the construction of a mixeduse residential and hotel development no work is proposed for the beach house 8 condominium portion of the site um staff has provided a a a
significant amount of background information um with regard to the resiliency and safe structures act this application it has been filed in accordance with that which is why um the applicant is not
before this board requesting the total demolition of the existing uh structures at 3611 and 3621 uh Collins Avenue both of these properties um are qualifying under that state law um and the building
permits for the demolition of those structures are currently being reviewed at an administrative level um the applicant is proposing to construct a new 17story mixeduse building with 23 residences and 36 hotel
rooms there will also be uh dining venues and a spa uh the proposed building is composed of two main parts a two-story podium and a 15story tower podium is proposed to be clad in a natural stone
material it features fluted twotory decorative columns around the perimeter um the primary glass tower features wraparound balconies with guard rails composed of fluted terracotta panels topped with frighted glass um staff is
supportive of the uh design of the building in particular we think the pedestal uh portion really helps uh create a more pedestrian scale along Collins Avenue and is consistent with um with the surrounding historic district
in terms of scale and massing um we do have one concern uh regarding the location of the service areas along the south side uh of the property this is fronting on 36th Street uh this area
includes building services including a generator an FPNL vault room and loading docks um there's also a substantial amount of curb cuts along this area as this um you know as this is an important
pedestrian corridor that runs to the beach itself um we do believe that this area that there's a an opportunity to create a more pedestrian friendly um active use portion of the site um and we
are recommending that the applicant at a minimum uh look at redesigning this which could include the relocation of the FPNL um and certainly the generator the generator can be you know almost anywhere on the site um just to
introduce some more active uses this would also reduce the number of required corp cuts and create a a better urban condition um finally staff would note and we've just noted this um this is not uh for the board's consideration today
but that the some of the sideyard setbacks for the property will uh require relief they are currently seeking that that relief in the form of a city commission warrant the city commission is authorized to uh reduce
the setbacks up to 25% um the the reduction in the setback is really a product of the beach house 8 condominium uh I know they you know as a unified site they've been working together to
find an appropriate location for the tower the tower has been separated 9 ft from the beach house 8 condominium um but since Beach House 8 currently has a a non-conforming setback taking the sum of the sideyards which is a percentage
of the lot width um taking the Beach House 8 setback into consideration has the effect of not meeting the sum of the sideyards even though their southside setback for their tower um does meet the the single side
setback um so I just wanted to clarify that because this is a relatively new process um in terms of the commission warrant process but they are not requesting any variances um or any waiverss from this board and I'm happy to answer any questions you
may have i had a I had a quick question for you Debbie okay may and just as um you may not maybe the applicant should answer but but just for you how um so the property ownership it's a it's a
combined lot but one of the one of it's not um can you des can you describe property ownership with the condominium the proposal is for a unified development site which would be um the beach house 8
condominium is an owner and then the owner for the other two parcels is the second owner that's who the is is going to be coming before you today however they're both co-licants they have both authorized the application um and are before you today um as a
unified a proposed unified development site that the we will require an actual covenant in lie of unity at the time we review the building permit that's what I was wondering because I'm not haven't been familiar with that before didn't we recently have a unified Wasn't
Isn't Washington wasn't that a unified development site that's what I thought because there's multiple owners we've had unified sites but it this is I thought this was with the condominium on it as one of the one of the co-owners was a little slightly Yeah just the difference between that and like a unity of title where they you know yeah so Yep
yep okay great any any other questions for Debon all right all yours welcome good afternoon chair members of the board Nissan Casden and uh Cecilia Torres Toledo of Acreman LLP as well as Tracy Slavvens of LSN
representing the applicant uh with me today as well is the CEO of the uh principal developer 13th floor Arno Corsenti as well as the COO Ray Melende uh we have our architecture team here
led by Brandon Hall of Brandon Hall architecture and also Barbara Perzolei of Luis Rela Revolta Architecture who was the architect of record Ivana Becker of uh Ana Landscape as well as our
traffic consultants uh Adrien Dowski first I would like to take a moment to thank staff for working with us on this very important project for the city of Miami Beach i'd like to begin our presentation if we can have it put up
there there we go uh this is a very exciting new uh project which is being brought to this city it is the Chipriani brand uh that is being brought here let me just see how I advance this okay
I'm trying to advance this do I do it that way let me move microphones okay um and so first I think you may be familiar with the location this is a 3600 block of Collins Avenue it consists of the three buildings as Debbie
described one at 3611 3621 and also the uh beach house 8 which is included by unity of title first is important to understand the neighborhood within which this sits this is an area of Collins Avenue really from
uh 23rd Street north to the Fountain Blue which was largely developed in the late 1930s into the late 1940s with grand oceanfront hotels including hotels famous hotels such as the Cadillac the
Crown the Versailles the Sea Isle uh the Saxony now the Fyana these hotels in distinction from the hotels developed earlier in South Beach were larger they were oceanfront properties they had grand entrances uh and that was the
characteristic look of the neighborhood since then new buildings of great character and quality have been added to the neighborhood improved by this board including the Fyena House which Brandon Hall was the architect on the most more recently the Aman uh by Kangokkuma as
well as other buildings of equivalent stature and uh feel in that area this is a look looking up north in Collins Avenue first building you see in the foreground is the Fena House by Hall followed by Kangokkuma's
uh uh Aman and then you see the uh restored Versailles which will be the man hotel which is in process now and as you can see historically this was the character of this portion of Collins Avenue it is what people think of the grand hotels with beautiful entrances
vehicular entrances and gardens in front this is another view again this is looking south down on Collins Avenue looking towards the Saxony the Fena also the Versailles the old Whitman Hotel which uh is no longer there and
so today what we have on this property are three buildings the beach house is in the foreground and then you see 3621 and 3611 these buildings are not characteristic of the structures that are the signature
of the east side of Collins Avenue in the 30s and the 40s these were anomalous structures which were built at an earlier time they were inexpensive uh they've outlived their useful lives and purposes and they're also frankly unsafe because they're not
resilient this is another perspective looking at the site from the south this is the 36th Street side and we will address uh a little bit later how what is proposed for 36th Street is a vast improvement in terms of activa activation of the street and making it a
much more welcoming street and in that regard we will later ask you to consider our approach towards the 36 street side because uh there is no other feasible place to locate the drive the the the
loading docks the FPNL vault but at the same time I think you'll see what Brandon did is an excellent treatment of that street which makes it a really truly great pedestrian street facing the park this is the current condition of the two existing buildings on the site
that will be demolished and before I turn it over to Brandon I would like to just speak for a moment about the enormous support we have received from neighbors and stakeholders leading with and we will we will distribute to you a package of all
their letters of support and endorsement including first and foremost the Mid Beach Neighborhood Association which is the principal association for that part of Miami Beach the FAA house condominium and I would ask that you actually take a look at some of the letters the the
sincere not only the sincerity but the strength with which they think this project is so good and so appropriate for this neighborhood the Caribbean condominium which is the large condominium of the south beach house 8 condominium as well the Collins Park
neighborhood association but also many prominent neighbors including you'll see a letter from Alan Fyena who is singularly responsible really for turning this neighborhood around by his creation of the Fena district and he views this project as being a next step
in the further positive evolution of the area as well as by the way Hima kami OS who is a obviously famous architect and has had a lot to do with the creation of the district so with that I'd like to turn it over to Brandon we will need Mr
chair a little bit more time i see the clock is running down but we'll need about another 15 minutes I think thank you you 15 uh chairman uh members of the board staff uh it's great pleasure to be here
once more um just do the technical um aspect yes okay so um the Chipriani brand um 1931 Jeppi Chipriyani in Venice um created Harry's
Bar very famous it's a place um that's classical classic timeless queen Elizabeth visited uh Elizabeth Taylor visited um many many dignitaries there's a picture there on the bottom left of
Ernest Hemingway with Jeppi Chipriyani it's a brand that's international it's known throughout the world for its timeless elegance of service and excellence in a quiet and yet beautiful way and that goes all the way through
not only to their service but also to their environments their buildings and we're very lucky and privileged I feel to be part of bringing the Kaza Chipriyani brand to this part of Miami Beach it's the only It's the third um
Kaza Chipriani project to be um undertaken by the family it's one of three two of which are in historic buildings in New York and in Milano and this will be the first new build entirely new build it only has
23 apartments it only has 36 um high-end uh uh hotel rooms it has a private members club and as Nissan said if we look at a historic district I've worked virtually
my whole career with historic districts and historic buildings um from London to throughout the world here in Miami Beach through New York and you need to know a good historic building uh or a historic district when you see one and I think
when you work with history and the layering of history urbanistically and in architecture one has to look at the past and yet celebrate the future and I take that very seriously so if we look
back to these postcards that Nissan showed the exclusive hotels on Collins Avenue and we see the bugilia we see the uh setback gardens the lush planting the generous driveways that was the
character of a historic district back in its heyday the glamour of Collins Avenue in Mid Beach again that same postcard looking south we see Roy France's Sea Aisle 1941 pre-war building and yet Roy
France post-war in the Saxony Hotel now the finer hotel a streamline modern international style building so Roy France himself the Dwen of architecture of this part of Miami Beach um soon very
soon after the Saxony was built built the Sansi uh 1949 with uh Lapidus who did some conversion work with it as well but again a modern building so they were moving with the times architects do move with the times so what would uh what
would Roy France do um today for example and if we go to that other photograph looking down we see the port crochet the driveways the gardens the generosity of those spaces and as Nissan
showed there is no generosity to our current site at all currently and we see here on the left the um the Versailles building again 1941 pre-war by Roy
France with its stone base the the coral bases the driveway the port cashier and those coral bases quite often extent in the various different large Grand Dam hotels that lined the east side of uh
Collins Avenue of the time of the heyday time why do people come to Florida why do people come to Miami Beach for its lifestyle um so here now we look at the Kaza Chipriani proposal looking north you see
in the foreground the Amman the Versailles by Roy France with its uh stone base the driveway the port koscher and then you can see just mid picture mid view the port koscher of the current design a twotory high building with a
grand entrance you'll see it in a couple more slides the gentle curvature of the tower that set well back from uh Collins Avenue facing the ocean and giving light and air and space to Collins Avenue
itself so the front elevation you see the gardens you see a building which is now lower set back you know more than 30 feet back from Collins Avenue property line you see a green mansard roof you
see lavish um good quality materials this is zooming in you have a green mansard roof which I'll come back to that slowly gen gently um steps back from the facade
art and there you see the uh porc the driveway very generously uh dimensioned the elegance of entering through to the private members club there are no public restaurants in this building the stonework the fluting
echoing the legacy of architecture in this part of the historic district the fluted columns and we have uh some materials some material samples but we're looking at
stone from Italy uh or or elsewhere with coral um shells um but not the local coral stone necessarily because it's very friable um and then bronze trims uh and uh and fluted
details so there's a a view looking from the corner of 36th Street and Collins Avenue there you see the green mansard stepping back and we'll take a a little walk around the building but as Roy France said let in the air and sun
that's what people come to Florida for and so addressing the view for example from beach house 8 and the um the rather unedifying view of that building the side of that building um if I was the architect of that building I wouldn't be
particularly proud of this um and the proximity of that building to beach house 8 that very same shot with the new building as of right um no variances asked for now opening up all the way
down Collins Avenue you see the space that's given over to the port share stepping the building back with that drop off and driveway you see the greater amount of space between beach house 8 and the new tower so we're
actually moving the building further south um to enable those views to be um enjoyed just and more light and air between the two buildings echoing Roy France's uh uh little quote and mantra
there and then the private um swimming pool just for the 23 residences the pool for the 36 hotel guests uh is on the uh oceanfront
side here again talking about the materiality light air the detailing of the fluted uh bands and edges the fritted glass uh ballastrades the reconstituted wood uh handrail and warm
colored uh sophets to the balconies and again the materials and the shapes that we're developing for all of these uh details throughout the building and then the attention to detail carries
through to the way the inside follows through to the outside of the building so the first four floors of the tower are hotel for hotel suites and they have a certain rhythm that steps back again a
sort of an homage or uh an abstraction of many of those rhythmic um rhythmic shapes and forms from the the better examples of Roy France's buildings and then um the stone base you see there the
setback with the green garden and then the entire facade you start to see the way the rhythm changes when it comes to the apartments above in the foreground of this you see the step terraces of the gardens and the
gardens and landscaping are very important so this coming round to 36th Street and the commentary on activation uh this facade and we have many supporting um piece of information but this facade is now set 16'6 back
from the street um the current setback is 4'9 we're landscaping the entire length this particular length of facade along here is actually 42 feet shorter than the existing uh coral reef building so
and of that um nearly 50% of that is an active drop off and port kair for the 23 apartments above that you see just to the left you see next to that the um loading bay and the FPL vaults and these
will be detailed again the same stone the same terra cotta the same bronze detailing the the activation of the upper floor with the private members club with the little Juliet balconies the landscaping the the curb cuts are
non-existent where the FPL vault is and the um the generator room those are only serviced once a year or once a month um very rarely the materials and finishes along there that's how it exists today
and this is how we're turning it it's very active we have bike parking along there as well so um that's how it is today inactive 4 foot 9 setback and there is a a quick comparison there you see
223 feet in length of the coral reef ours is 181 and change feet long of which nearly 50% is is active drop off with the bike walking and then we'll have landscaping where the access needs
to be afforded to the FPL and the um and to fill the generator the adjacency of the generator needs to be next to the FPL which needs to be next to the e the uh electrical room um so there are adjacencies that need to be maintained
and all of these uh elements need to be at street level the drop off the gardens and drop off um and the building itself is at BF plus two in the application it's BF um plus one we've actually
listened and and amended that in our current drawings to plus two to take account of uh FEMA requirements and to give greater resiliency to the building which means the drop off is very high collins Avenue is important we don't
want trucks and and traditionally along this part of uh Miami Beach the side streets are often where the um activities take place to support buildings in their function particularly when we don't have any street access on
the northern side so again this is the view today that hedge actually I was just there earlier today and it's more than six feet high that hedge um and this is how we're turning you remember the postcard images with the bugilia and
here the flowering plants and the and the grasses and that sense of landscaping as I said runs all the way through to the um the gardens and the setbacks the greenery and the um the beachwalk again
just to reinforce the quality of materials on 36th Street but going back to landscape we think of the Italian Riviera we think of um Lake Cuomo we think of Venice um and that
elegance of Italian style and excellence and design being brought through with Enya into the landscape so there you see the the rather formal um italian aate garden design but using
resilient planting using local planting um to bring it into the context of of Miami Beach is the other aspect that's been very important throughout the design of this project you see the levels that that um tear
down almost like the oldfashioned haha devices um of English landscapes um so this pool deck is at plus4 and a half the beachwalk is at plus 9 and how do we make that transition between the two
levels with the gentle um the gentle uh terracing of the landscape as you see in this section and there you see the uh boardwalk or the I should call it the beachwalk in the foreground and then the
terracing going back and at just five feet above that there is the beach and then 7 ft above that you see the restaurant deck of the Chabriani private um uh residence private um members
club and this is from the pool looking back this is what I mean by the haha device so the the guests are at this level they don't really see the um beachwalk uh prominard and the beachwalk prominard doesn't necessarily see into
the um the pool but it's done in a very gentle and landscape way taking that landscape up another level there is the private roof deck surrounded by greenery and just by way of um a summary there's
the hotel club and lobby ground floor entrance on the left of this slide with Port Cashare and the setback then the club level at the upper levels activating that 36th Street frontage and then the four levels of
hotel of which on that roof deck is the green mansad with the uh residence pool and then you see the 11 floors of uh condominium residences above that it's a 200 ft as of right building height with
a 25 ft uh uh bulkhead at the top as I mentioned it's BFE plus two uh there's the drop off in the driveway and in the interest of time that concludes the presentation for now um I'll hand back over to Nissan but thank you for
listening and I hope you enjoy the project that does conclude our presentation we we're here for questions uh uh also we obviously we would respectfully request your approval and as well with respect to the 36th street side and the location of the FPNL vault
and and uh and uh other driveways that's for servicing the building as I think Brandon has made a very persuasive case as that's an excellent solution for the street as well thank you thank you very much for your
presentation and now um we have uh now questions from board members for the applicant anything that you saw that you'd like more information on and Mr chairman before we go to questions yes i I thought it might be a good idea to just swear in any members of the public
who have not yet been sworn in since uh since we did that last this morning so anyone has not been sworn in could you raise your right hands do you swear affirm the testimony you'll give in this proceeding is the truth all truth and nothing but the truth thank you all right think we should report
disclosures uh no we don't do that yet we will get to it we will get to it you will get to disclose in due time where do you recommend that we do it now we have a process for this so we'll do it right we'll do with process you can disclose anything you'd like at
any time rick please don't feel I'm inhibiting you do you have is something you like to just so most of you know I wear two hats president Ray could you turn your Sorry could you turn your microphone off sorry i'm president of the Collins Park
Association and I also sit on the HPV board and uh earlier this month Ray Melendi uh asked me if we could get a letter from the Collins Park neighborhood association to support this project and I said "Perfect timing we
have a board meeting on the 15th of of of uh April it's going to be at Miami City Ballet you can come and present to the board i have to abstain since I sit on the HPB and and he and Brandon on Zoom presented to the board um the
project uh and it was motioned by uh um um Steven Mandel who is the owner and operator of the um Doorchester and the Marseilles Hotel to write the letter and
and all it was seconded by Pam Mayor who is our secretary i simply wrote the letter said I abstained from it and sent it like I do with all letters that I've been president for 20 years with with and I just need you all to know that I
can make an absolute clear decision on whatever's presented here today um from the board standpoint um I I think my integrity goes unquestioned okay thank you
no questions all right um any questions for the applicant not at the moment not the moment Lindsay no not the moment all right and
um I don't have any questions for the applicant either so there are no applicant responses to the um to respond to and uh now we'll continue with board disclosures which were coming right after this so Ray
you've started this in the great tradition i don't know if he can uphold your standards of that level of detail but Haskell any I have met with representatives of some of the project previously anything i have met with the developer
and the architect okay i met with the applicant you met with the applicant and I've been contacted by the applicant but I haven't met on this on this project okay so with that I think we'll open it to public hearing oh yeah Lindsay and I think all of the letters that we
received were everyone was copied on but just to the extent that they weren't I received numerous numerous emails they're all copied right here yeah they're all they're all in the record because they go through the board staff correct but not I mean I some of them went to my
work email rather than my HPB email so I just wanted to raise that that's all and I would just remind the board any emails you receive about individual applications should be forwarded to staff so they can be made a part of the record any emails that were forwarded to staff have have already been uploaded to
the to the city website perfect thank you all right i think we're on to the public uh public hearing please I guess Debbie do you want to There are people I think people have been here for a long time so maybe we could have people in in person uh speak
first and then anyone on Zoom please raise your hand sounds good okay so um we sent this letter out this morning to the city clerk um I'm not sure if you've all read it um but I'm going to read our statement it's about two minutes um the
Mid Beach neighborhood I'm sorry could you first state your name for the record alicia a L I C I A Kasan Nova i'm the vice president of the Mid Beach Neighborhood Association thank you uh the MBNA represents condominiums and hotels located within the geographical
boundaries of East Mid Beach encompassing Collins Avenue and Indian Creek Drive from 24th Street to 63rd Street our members include residents living adjacent to these properties and the hotels operating within the vicinity um all directly affected by their
current state and proposed redevelopment these stakeholders have chosen to invest reside and operate within a nationally recognized historic district deeply valuing community enhancement that aligns with our neighborhood's character the MBNA deeply appreciates
the rich history of Miami Beach and would not support actions that would compromise genuinely cherished landmarks we regret seeing communitywide petitions that inaccurately portray the Coral Reef Hotel and the Petrician while the
proposed design does not replicate the existing historical structures it respectfully aligns with the broader architectural heritage of our community this alignment is essential to MBNA as we advocate for thoughtful development
that complements our community's context and identity additionally over the past 18 months the MBNA has actively and consistently engaged with 13th floor alongside associations property owners and
individual residents directly impacted by this project stakeholders have expressed both their support and their concerns after considering perspectives from various organizations and opposing viewpoints
all concerns raised have been thoroughly addressed prior to today project details and presentations have been readily available through our website midbe.net through YouTube channel and regular member communications throughout this process
13th floor has demonstrated responsiveness by incorporating significant community feedback into their evolving design plans on behalf of MBNA we respectfully request that the city of Miami Beach and the
HBA formally recognize our association's preference and fully support and approve this beautiful project thank you thank you okay Roger again you're not going to do that roger
Goldlad uh Maryland uh Miami Design Preservation League um we we haven't had the opportunity or offer yet to get a presentation but we strongly oppose the total demolition of the historic coral
reef and Patricia hotels the Patricia is a Roy France design as mentioned before just like the Versail down the street which is getting a complete renovation this early example of Rory Franc's work must be given the opportunity to grace the streets of Miami Beach for another
hundred years we encourage the applicant to return to their earlier concept to preserve the facades it's funny I'm saying preserve facades now but uh it's a different situation preserve the facades of these structures while
allowing for new development behind uh that the towers are you know would work well while a recently enacted state law preempting preempting local review of demolition for coastal structures would allow for total demolition we believe it would serve the community interest and
protect the integrity integrity of the historic district to incorporate the facades into their development program we urge that this item be continued to allow for further exploration of alternatives to determine the fate of these significant historic structures
thank you thank you hi my name is Veronica Saragovia and I live on 900 Meridian Avenue and I'm speaking just on behalf of myself as a concerned resident of a of a I live in a condo from the
1950s and I feel that elegance in a historic inh historic Italian cities like Lake Cuomo or Venice are not made by goddy glass towers that elegance is found in the tasteful design of the buildings that we have like the Delano like the Cadillac like
what the Raleigh was we have that right and we would like to preserve it the images of Chipriyani businesses that we saw in historic buildings wouldn't seem fair that here we would have to lose our historic buildings on Miami Beach um I could have looked for an apartment in
Aventura or Surfside or Bell Harbor or downtown Fort Lauderdale and those of us who come to Miami Beach are looking to preserve the history of what's here history looks unkindly on Miami Beach for the demolition of the Senator in 1988 and the New Yorker in 1981 and I
would advise that those decisions not be repeated um I've been on walking tours and I hear people from around the world coming to Miami Beach to see Miami Beach not to see Daytona Beach and we understand that the decision to
potentially demolish these buildings is based on a law that was passed in Tallahassee with lobby money um Tallahassee is about 8 hours away from here by car if you don't stop and about 500 miles away it just doesn't make it right historically thank you
thank you hi good afternoon my name is Steve Gambinsky i'm president of the Caribbean Condominium Association we have uh we we occupy the block immediately to the north of this project we also have a historic building and new tower that I
think works quite well i have a background i studied at the Pratt Institute School of Architecture i was uh president of the Lincoln Road Business Improvement District for seven years and with Debbiey's help I brought a 1925 storefront back at 900 Lincoln Road i'm a great believer in the
preservation of good architecture i think the two buildings there are anything but good architecture i live a block away we walk by them very frequently it is a horrendous feeling to walk by these two structures it's unpleasant it's it's it's just very
unpleasant and I don't consider them significant whatsoever the Caribbean Condominian Association strongly strongly uh recommends the adoption of this plan we think there could not have been a better designed structure or better for our neighborhood it restores
the elegance of the old buildings um it's just a great addition to our neighborhood and it would make no sense to put two derelch buildings in front of these towers when you could put really a two-story tower a two-story base that
that calls back to where Miami Beach used to be we very very strongly advocate the adoption of this thank you very much thank you okay Mr chair we do have um members of the public on Zoom uh Johan Moore
good afternoon Johan do you swear or affirm the testimony you'll give in this proceeding is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do thank you thank you you have three minutes good afternoon the board members uh yet again
uh it might seem uh strange uh for me to be commenting on this uh given that it's not my neighborhood and I want to thank Mid Beach Neighborhood Association and Anna Marie Fera for generously engaging with me on this subject uh my jumping in
was motivated by the at that point in time to me in any case unclear status of Miami Design Preservation League's engagement on these issues i've since been reassured by that including by the two presentations today um I very much am taken with Mid Beach Neighborhood
Association's general design guidelines i am very much taken with the green stepback of uh the proposed building granted uh 3621 is a little harder to love though that's not uh the determining factor for contributing
buildings um but I want to urge the developer voluntarily to retain that is to say now upon further uh information being presented today relocate the facade of the coral reef uh back to
where it could serve as a component of the BKO and I have in fact uh written to the commission asking that it approve any requested setbacks only on that condition that that facade be preserved
i really think it is important that all neighborhoods and neighborhood associations commit to a collective responsibility for preserving contributing buildings especially one that lies on the coastal limestone ridge i.e higher above sea level rise than
those in my less fortunate neighborhood in terms of elevation uh my neighborhood of Flamingo Park so I encourage the developer to take uh the community's preservationist uh uh requests into consideration and I thank Mid Beach Neighborhood Association again for its
engagement thank you very much thank you okay um Mr mr chair I see no other members of the public on Zoom and no one in the audience all right um would the applicant like to respond to any of the comments made by
the public no Mr chair if there are any questions about it we'd be happy to address them but uh no response I feel is necessary all right then I guess we turn it over to uh board member comment or andor and discussion anything you'd like
to add the only thing I can say uh you know like I've actually been inside one was a time a time share and I had a friend visit several years ago and invited me there and he said I traded my time share
in Orlando for this heap of junk and you know I I I said well you know you should have known what it was like before you came but that was my only inside of the building uh when the boardwalk was there I would quite often walk by and be able to see the out
outside of the property um it's very well it's not maintained at all it's it's run down and and this board doesn't have the right to decide whether the building gets torn down or not tallahassee has taken that away from us so from my standpoint all we can look at
is the design you've brought us today and that's what I'm going to be evaluating thank you Ray uh Haskell yeah I think the project is beautiful i think it's a great asset for the community and I applaud you for your design however I have a concern about
the um maneuverability analysis on the south side of the property you've effectively taken over 36th Street whereas today you can one can access the beach a pedestrian can access the beach on the
north side of 36th Street as well as the south side the way you have it laid out with accessibility to the building it's not it's going to prevent people from accessing the beach what consideration are you giving to residents of the
area where you're effectively taking over 36th Street to to improve the south side of 36th Street if I may I think Brandon and Adrienne can address it the uh there is of course a full sidewalk as
well as the landscaping as well as the activation on the north side of 36th Street which is a better condition than there is today plus there will also be of course the continued access on the south side i don't think it affects pedestrian accessibility in terms of
vehicular I we can show you the circulation uh of cars in and out uh of the property but remember as well it's a relatively not not intense use with uh 30 some odd hotel rooms 20 some odd residences a
private club and so uh uh it's much less intense than could be made but if you want we can show you how that but it does affect the parking to the south circulation to the parking on the north side of the parking right the igress and egress
the the the city's parking garage the parking lot parking lot rather good afternoon Adrian Dubcowski with Kimley Horn offices at two Alahhamra and Coral Gables um so the the driveway connections to the south city lot are
not impacted the on street parking that's along the north side we we will have to remove that and work with the city's parking department to you know provide our driveways there and that maneuverability but on the south side even the on street parking on the south side it's it's maintained um with our
our maneuverability analysis shows that we're able to maneuver in and out of both the loading and the port of Cusher on the north side of 36 Street without impacting the on street parking on the south side so only the on street parking on the north side would be removed in order to provide access to those
driveways and the loading i guess what I'm asking effectively is are you going to create some sort of a buffer the sidewalks on the south side of 36th Street and the entry is now you essentially are going to have the entry on the south side of the building to the towers are you going to create some sort
of a buffer for pedestrian making it a little more pedestrian friendly i don't see anything on these drawings uh we can pull them back up again i think it's going to be a much more generous buffer than exists that hedge you'll need to be on the mic
if you're going to explain anything you'll need to be on the mic so maybe just pull the drawing that drawing up on the on the screen i'm looking at HPVA300 020 do we have the remote mic down here that they can use the maneuverability
analysis is it at the lectern nissan what is the remote mic at the lectern that could be used i did not see a remote mic here staff here they come thank you okay while we're waiting just to to also
repeat the only uh vehicular entrance for the for the south side is the the residences are on the south side the club is on Collins Avenue so uh the residences themselves should not create that much uh traffic in and out but
you'll see we'll show it again here we go that's the southside view elevate that's the south elevation that's the south elevation with a 16 foot six set back and then you know obviously the landscaping is on the north side for the
city parking lot that's fine i just see the they're very friendly in the rendering walking along that sidewalk what I'm talking about there's also a bike park where the bikes are is the south side of 36 Street creating a buffer there for the vehicles
coming in and out because that's your primary entrance now to the the building for the residences only just for the res I'm sorry just for the res that's the res this is just for the 20 residences or 23 residences are you are
you asking asking and delivery and where are deliveries coming the delivery is on this street as well no yes it's it's where um it's on the plan it's just east of the edge
yeah 36 is what I This is the there's two loading positions here behind a bronze colored metal screen as we showed in the elevation and then this landscaping there'll be a a greenrete uh landscaping
treatment over the um entrance to that loading bay as well so it is integrated into the landscaping through here pascal are you asking about the south side of that street correct right so they're not looking at He's actually talking about the We're looking at the north side of
36th Street he's asking about the south side of 36 Street which is not your property sort of a buffer for any pedestrians because to me that side is going to be useless in terms of a pedestrian you've got so many curb cuts what the south side the south side has today and Adrian can uh elucidate more
on this is is there is a there's parking along the south side that's going to remain so it's essentially the same the same and then the sidewalk so the same condition that it is today is what it will be afterwards right no I understand
that right and what I'm asking is are there any considerations for improving that south side of the street thank you and u it's it's precient that you've asked that because our clients would very much
like to make enhancements to the park and that southside to make it more inviting uh that's not part of of what we're doing here but they're de definitely with you in terms of wanting to make that the southside as well and the park itself more attractive for
pedestrians and visually that is not in your scope of work and considering that as a contribution to the city no it's not in uh well uh no it's not in our scope of work and uh nor of course is it uh relate to the site plan that we have
here but we will we have I will say this we have engaged in discussions with the city with regard to improving the park i know for instance as well one of Debbie's uh longtime wishes is to see these
beachfronts be be more than just you know surface parking lots so we are committed to working with the city uh and possibly participating with the city and improving it but it's a very preliminary stages
okay um Ray you seem poised i I was just gonna say anybody that's looked at any of the street ends between Collins and the beach i mean look at 20th Street you know you've got the set on one side you you know that's always all blocked up and then on the other side you're going
to have the Shore Club even on 24th Street you've got everything on one side for one hotel and homes then you got the entrance to the condominium on the other side there's always trucks at the end all turning around and whatnot there's certain things you're not going to be able to you know totally satisfy because
there are things that need to be done for these buildings thank you um Elizabeth any any words of No any thoughts yeah since we're talking about the ground floor and the accessibility
and so forth um I was just curious to understand where the like the deliveries that you mentioned are next to the entrance that's the deliveries of everything like all the food produce all the the materials that are needed for the residential and the hotel and the
club and the other question is the garbage dumpster is located where i should have I didn't seen the plants but right so going back to this plan you see just
here there's two loading docks the trash room is downstairs there's a designated um trash elevator here there are um cold trash rooms downstairs the private members club um is a private members
club so the public um the public throughput of trash is somewhat limited in terms of there's only 36 hotel rooms so all of the studies are pointing to the fact that this this provision is
totally adequate for the incoming and outgoing both trash and deliverance and it's just located here thank you lindsay did you have anything i don't have any questions no no um well this is
just comments this is because we're just getting we're wrapping up the next is going to be asking for motions yeah um so no questions obviously um I would say um I appreciate and I know I like I said I met with applicant one of the things that I asked that was important to me on
this project was knowing what it looks like from the beachwalk access because I know that's come up before in front of this board you know what that looks like and whether it's a wall next to the people that are walking down the beachwalk or whether they have you know some sort of pleasant view and so I appreciate you know you incorporating that and explaining that in your
presentation today um but that's all I have right now all right um I'll just say that I uh really appreciate this project and I I'm glad you spend as much time as you did on the historic uh buildings because you know one of the things that um Debbie
and her staff have done over the years is to kind of talk about the way in which continuities of of buildings of different eras kind of form the fabric of our historic of our historic neighborhoods and our neighborhoods in the future and I know um many people
come here for the historic districts but many people also come here for the you know for the Norman Foster buildings and to see the newest some of the newest buildings that uh that this that this amazing community is able to accommodate um and I you know I understand that
under the circumstances and the way you kind of teed this up I think in the staff report understanding the the the legislative landscape that we're working within here which is new for all of us here um so given given that I um you know I
appreciate the amount of of detail you put into your plans i I I I don't know better but I'm I'm wondering whether wood railings how wood railings along the ocean are going to are going to manage but that's I'm not going to I'm not going to um go there and try to uh
you know detail that um with you i don't know any better than what you're trying to do so um yeah I really appreciate the um the way in which the the the building kind of steps back and it's in a line of buildings that are going to be an
incredible landscape for hospitality in our in our city um and it's going to I think it will be something that um is studied in the future by students since we already have students now who have no idea they think 2000 is a ancient
building so a building built in 2000 so they um will someday think this is a this is a um an amazing building to look at i only hope that the um that there are opportunities for the public to come into the into the lobby to see what it
is that you've done there i know it's going to be a private club and I and the fact that there's no public restaurant because that's how I usually get into some of these places is just make a reservation i I'm beginning to worry I might be like locked out of this with all of my with all of my neighbors um
but um I you know it would be it would be great if there was a way for this for this lobby to be able to be uh public publicly accessible if not for you know uh to to view it and to understand it to
or to give tours or something like that because I think that would be important is but I know how private this is because it's a private hotel it's a private club it's a private properties condominiums is there any thought that um you might or the ownership might give
to that i think in Harry's Bar was a great example to start with because of course any of us who have been there you go right to Harry's bar and you're in the Chipriani and you kind of understand all the amenities that are there in Venice um but is that um
it's a question for ownership no of course of course I understand same question came up on the Hurst Tower in New York and and which I was involved intimately with that everybody wanted to go in and people could go in they couldn't go any further and just look
and come out again right um but I've heard this argument before good afternoon ray Mulendi 13th floor investments 2850 Tiger Tale um the lobby is open to the public and we do have a breezeway that's on the north side of the property that will be open for
events um we're not looking yes it's an exclusive club but we also not shuttering the doors so it's not that type of location okay it was just a a question um thank you for um your next question would be how much does a martini cost exactly where's the bar and
I don't Bini Bellini excuse me the Bellini right exactly yes all right um with that I would entertain any uh any motions and Debbie can you just confirm what we would need and the votes we would need so this is is purely a
certificate of appropriateness for the design of the new uh proposed building uh it requires four votes okay we would ask Mr share again that uh though with respect to 36th Street that the design
be as we have presented to you we will though be happy as well to work with staff on uh you know the final detailing and such uh sure to accommodate concerns i Yes that's Thank you for reminding me about that i did want to just mention
that I I understand where you guys were coming from on this i I and I was trying to rework like how it might possibly be moved around i think that the southside is probably that side that's already active is probably the place that I I'm
okay with it being with it being there and it seems like you guys are very sensitive to how it's going to be handled on the street and the fact that you're even you know in discussions with the city about uh making the south side of 36th Street also part of like that garden experience to the beach um is a
very positive uh is a very positive thing so thank you for that do can I uh get a motion from anybody i'll make a motion to uh accept the uh
the uh certificate of appropriateness i'll second it um and this is the um let me just see let me read the order is the did you change the order to have to have it yes we have uh C2A is the condition
regarding 36 Street right so can would you accept that um C2A um requires them to um to be placed on the on the north it doesn't say north side there just says consider
I think consider relocating the consider relocating that i I didn't think they needed to do that but if if we can just eliminate that no I don't think they need to okay all right so I guess we need a No I was I didn't second it haskell did oh you okay with that as
well so the the motion would be to approve for staff's condition with the exception to of C to A and that would be deleted right
and that leaves the um south building as it is currently as proposed we we they've already addressed the issue of working with staff to improve uh the south side of 36th Street and that's encouraging staff is the southside no
we're south side of we will work with the city i don't know exactly what that means whether you're going to contribute anything to the to the improvements of the south side of 36th Street i'm hoping that it does let me just let me explain how this has happened in in in my neighborhood
because that's a city side of the street it it has to be a separate project but like like with Starwood and and and the street when the city finally redo the streets Starwood is going to instead of having twigs planted they'll pay the
money to plant big plants and everything else they're looking at trying to help the Florida Power and Light make their building look better it's not part of the project it can't be but believe me this is a private club everybody that's coming has to think "This is
wonderful i'm happy to pay my money i love what I have here." And they want it to be look nice for the neighborhood if I if I may I think Aman also wants to improve the condition sure they do on the other side of on the 35th Street side so there's a lot of interest in working with the city to make that park
and pedestrian entrance better yes so we have a motion and a second for um excluding uh C2A correct on the table if there's no further discussion I'll I'll call the role miss Carmargo yes mr
meyer yes miss Levelvel yes mr brlin yes mr stewart yes thank you very much thank you thank you thank you next month I'm bringing a park i sit right by the air conditioning duct i'm freezing
we are going to move On to our next application the next application on the agenda is HPB25648 this is 1700 Washington Avenue a possible uh designation of a historic site uh this is a presentation to the
historic preservation board again of a preliminary evaluation and recommendation report relative to the possible designation of the Jackie Gleason Theater uh located at 1700 Washington Avenue as a historic site um
so staff has actually did a did a pretty extensive amount of research and site visits to this particular um property um which we all know and love as the Jackie Gleason Theater um it was originally constructed as the Miami Beach
Auditorium that was really part of the the original convention center complex it has a fascinating history um it has um hosted some very significant
events um what we just after again you'll see it throughout the report our extensive amount of research not only of the kind of alterations that have been occurred that have occurred um through the building permit history and the city
commission action for this property um but also through our site visit we have um in our report some substantial uh historical documentation um as well as
um the current status of the property so while we do believe that on the face um of this uh proposal there are there are criteria that have been
satisfied uh most notably association with the lives of persons significant in the history's past um the theater is associated with Jackie Gleason an actor and comedian who was referred to as the great one um his show the Jackie Gleason
show was filmed in the Miami Beach Auditorium between 1964 and 1970 um had uh various guests from around the world um and we do find that that is a significant part of the social
history of the city of Miami Beach unfortunately um based on our research there is virtually no original design elements on the exterior or within the interior um the interior also
had an interesting history where uh Morris Lapidus had actually been hired by the city to to renovate the interior um we were interested to see if any of those elements remained um but it
appears that in the late 1980s when the uh theater was underwent a significant renovation by the city that all of those elements instead of sometimes we see they're just covered up were actually removed
um again the at that time the exterior was also significantly modified to look more like an art deco type style um which is somewhat concerning because we do we do often hear um this building
referred to as an art deco building and it is it is not um it was originally a very uh modest but interesting elegant uh post-war modern style building so due to the fact that we do not believe this this building could be
restored back to to any semblance of its original design um we do believe that the structure has lost all of its architectural integrity and are not supportive of the the possible designation of the structure as a historic site i think
more appropriately potentially could be um an educational component of of whatever new renovation project or new project that could occur here in the in the future that an educational component about the importance of the site as as a
social and cultural hub of the city um would be the most appropriate course of action than to preserve something that does that has no no architectural integrity left um but I am I'm going through this quick because it's late in the day and
we have to conclude in a little bit but I am more than happy uh to answer any questions uh the board may have um alongside the Jackie Gleason there is these lovely little handprints that have
been put on by many stars um and uh I don't know what you know the city might plan to do with those you know like uh my friend Harvey says that you know could take pictures of them make wallpaper you could also make vinyl on the floor someplace um but currently
that's not like the Walk of Fame that you see in Hollywood i mean this is really pretty poorly maintained by the city um it's almost embarrassing so I I don't know what what would be done as part of that yeah I I don't know either
but I I you know of course I I I know what you're talking about i've seen the handprints they're they're interesting i don't I don't know if there's any plan for that i don't believe there is currently um yeah so I don't know but I do agree with
you that the Jackie Gleason Theater Filmore aka whatever is currently not at all historic the original twin sister of the Miami date auditorium is totally gone and that was what was the historic
part there's I think three different uh additions by three different architects um and um the integrity of the sound everything inside I don't think it's savable you know I mean to me there you can't you cannot name this
historic building and give the give the opportunity to be able to build something that is state-of-the-art and can be as good as new world right across the street um what what was the context that this I might have just missed it uh the context
that this request came to you um this was a resolution by the mayor and city commission uh Commissioner uh Fernandez was the sponsor um I don't believe there was any um real evaluation or description other
than to have the board evaluate a possible historic site for this location you don't know what his intentions were with this uh designation i do not okay any any any comment on on this i'm I'm inclined to I'm inclined to follow your
recommendation i think it's very very logical and and thought out and uh of course if there was anything about the site that needed to be explained to future generations that should be built into whatever happens there but
Yeah a little museum or something like that inside but one of the things that for those who don't know is um way back uh I think when Mattie Bower was the mayor uh Cirus Sole had been approved to go in that site and they would have been
tearing that down building a new circus thing and a hotel and they were actually approved by commission but this they walked away from the project because they were not welcomed by the community too many people were against them coming in and doing that but a previous
commission already said "Hey yeah let's let's bring in something new let's make it let's make it great." So why we're circling all back around now and looking at it saying "Oh no this might be a historic building," I think is in incorrect and I agree with your your
analysis Bobby yeah yeah I mean I think I think it was a good exercise and I'm glad this is public information to really take a deep dive um and look to see if potentially there are great architects that that worked on this russell Pankost El Murray Dixon um
Morris Lapidus to see if there was anything um salvageable or or worth designating and unfortunately um you know we we do not believe there's anything left with any integrity it's
Disney let's see so I think I was trying to I already cleaned out my stack but I found it interesting that we have more information here on a possible on a on a recommendation not to
designate something historic than on like the recommendation to designate something historic earlier today um at least pages i mean we've got photos and other things um I will say um I remember I went my parents came to visit years ago we went
on a tour and someone's like "This is art deco." And I was like "But is it?" I No I don't think so um but I think that the history worth preserving is what happened there but
not necessarily the architecture that still exists today um and so you know I'm I'm inclined to go with staff recommendation as well um for that reason um
no I've just haven't comments do you What do you need from us do you need a motion well I think if any members of the public want to speak we should have if there's any yes please roger i haven't heard from you forever raise your hand roger again no uh Roger
Golov and DPL i'm actually not not going to read because I I heard Debbie Sat encounters a lot of uh things that were written but there should be somewhere that places of cultural interest like I came here because I watched the Jackie
Gleason show and I saw them coming in from the water and I said I want to live there and 100 years later here I am uh but you know and and like the uh Al Capone house you know they're not historic but they're you know they're
really worth people want to see them anyway that's my little spill at the end of the day thank you and are we still commenting comment yes you can comment i was going to say I mean Ry mentioned something about handprints and you know recreating this
and I expect the city will probably do this even if we didn't say it but just because we're here and we have the forum I would love you know whatever ends up happening there because I know there's been discussions a recognition of the history that existed in this place you
know the Jackie Leon Theater i mean some of this could be incorporated in some sort of memorial plaque or something like that um to really recognize what happened there i you know because when I first saw that this was on the agenda before I had a chance to look at it I was like no but Jackie Gleason and this
that and the other and it to me it evokes like the Doville and the things that we the issues that we had there and historic performances that happened there and so on and so forth um and not wanting to lose something else but learning more about it um like I said I'm inclined to go staff recommendation
but I would like to see a recognition um you know and so I have I have no doubt that we could ask the commission that later on but I just want to put that forward you know I we could put out a QR code but like I feel like in 10 years QR codes aren't going to be a thing you
know so um but anyways so I just wanted to mention that while we're here okay so um what what did you say you needed a recommend I think a motion to support staff's recommendation okay do not proceed with
a formal historic designation report i will move that we support staff recommendation and not proceed with a formal historic designation report okay okay uh let me call the role miss Carmargo yes mr meyer yes mr braslin
miss Levelvel yes mr stewart yes okay thank you thank you um board members that concludes our regular application but we do have a discussion item real quick uh Graham Penn is on the line this is an update regarding
2901 2911 Indian Creek Drive um I did advise Graham to participate via Zoom so it's not out of um any disrespect for the board but I knew it was going to be a long day and I thought it would be more efficient for Graham to participate
via Zoom i see he is with us and he does have a positive update regarding the properties graham good afternoon everybody can you hear me yes yes perfect i apologize again for not being there but sitting there for
six and a half hours for this does seem like a bit of a little bit of a waste uh as you may recall the last time we were here in February we had a circumstance we were waiting for the construction fence permit to issue uh and we were
still working on the the master building permit application good news uh as Debbie indicated and I do have slides which I'm sure you do not want to see but I we could put them up if you're interested the fence permit is issued the actual the fencing has been
installed uh around around the property we're waiting for the me the steel panels um but the frame is up so we anticipate the the fencing being fully installed this week it's a nice tall fencing which should protect the
property uh moving forward um and avoid the intrusions that this property has been suffering with for 12 years at this point um the property's condition remains good uh and we are at the final final stages of getting the master
building permit which uh after which we can proceed to demolish as approved and move on to new construction so we've made a lot of progress since February um and I'm here for any questions you may have obviously if the board uh wants us
to return again I'll gladly come back in person or in cyerspace whichever you're interested in but we are now uh hopefully on the glide path to being done and 200 South Biscane Boulevard by the way I don't think I need the address uh
that's good good news did you get the um did you get the graphics um figured out on the on the fence yes all right all right excellent thank you Graham he's gone
okay that's our last item motion to adjurnn yes okay thank you all very much thank you next