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I want to keep a Please take your seats. The meeting is about to begin. Remember to speak into the microphone as this meeting is being recorded for public record. Please stand by. We are going on air in
5 4 3 2 1. >> Good morning everyone and welcome to the February 10th meeting of the Miami Beach Historic Preservation Board. I'm John Stewart. I'm the chair of the board and
uh I am delighted to hand the um first order of business over to Michael Belalouch. >> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And just for everybody's knowledge, before we begin some updates to the agenda, I'd like to let um Justin here let the um audience
know how they may participate um on Zoom today and also read the notice regarding lobbyist registration. >> Thank you. Good morning. Today's meeting of the historic preservation board is being conducted in a hybrid format with a quorum of the board physically present uh in the commission chambers at Miami
Beach City Hall and applicants, staff, and members of the public appearing either in person or virtually via Zoom. Those wishing to participate in today's meeting via Zoom may dial the toll-free number which is 888-4754499 and enter the webinar ID which is
817-48347488 pound or log into the Zoom app and enter the webinar ID which again is 817-48347488. Individuals wishing to speak on an item must click the raise hand icon if they are using the Zoom app or dial star9 if they are participating by phone. Before
I swear and those who are testifying, I'm going to read into the record the city's notice regarding lobbyist registration. If you are appearing on behalf of a business, a corporation, or another person, including as an architect, attorney, a representative of an applicant, or an objector, you need to register as a lobbyist with the city
clerk's office before you speak to the board. You do not have to register if you are speaking only on behalf of yourself and not any other party. You are testifying as an expert witness providing only scientific, technical, or other specialized information or testimony in this public meeting. Or you
are appearing as a representative of a neighborhood association without any compensation for your appearance to express support for or opposition to any item. Expert witnesses and neighborhood association representatives shall prior to appearing disclose in writing to the city clerk their name, address, and the
principle on whose behalf they are communicating. These rules apply whether you are appearing in favor of or against an item or encouraging or arguing against its passage, defeat, modification, or continuence. I will now swear in everyone who is physically present in the commission chambers and intends to testify, uh, virtual speakers
will need to be sworn in one by one before addressing the board. So, if you will be testifying, please stand and raise your right hand. >> Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you will be giving is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Thank you.
>> Back to you, Mr. Chair. >> So, um just for everybody's um awareness, we do have six of seven members present today. Um Haskell Meyer um could not attend the meeting. Um and before the meeting today, the applicant has deferred the fountain application. Um what that means, this is a a one-time
deferral. Their applicant is allowed as of right a time deferral. They pay a fee and this is deferred to a future date. This means that the application will be fully renoticed um by newspaper. Anybody um receiving notice previously will get a new notice for the new date. At this point, the pseudices can come back would
be the um the May meeting or June meeting. But today there will be no discussion of the fountain blue. A deferment is as of right. Um there's no board discussion. The applicant does not speak. There's no public comment on the on the on the request for deferment. It's been done. Um the application cannot be heard today with the
deferment. So I would suggest that we um pause the meeting to allow the room to clear and then continue with the rest of the agenda. >> PJ if we can pause the meeting. All right. Um, next we have the approval of minutes and we may have a couple of minutes to
approve. >> Sure. So, this is the approval of the December 16, 2025 messes. Just to note the January meeting was cancelled and that was because all the items on the agenda were requests for continuances. So to have um a board meeting set and everybody come in for uh just to continue the applications. The chair
decided just to cancel the meeting avoid the delay because with the cancellation of the meeting everything is continued to the next available agenda which was today's meeting. So at this point we're asking for um approval of the minutes from the December 16, 2025 meeting date. >> I move to approve. >> Second.
>> All in favor? I >> post. It's approved six to zero. Um just for notice of business, we're going to move the election of chair and vice chair to next month's meeting because Haskell Meyer was reappointed but he could not attend today. So next month we'll have um everybody with John
Stewart in attendance and we may may have actually a position um someone to refill his position. So I feel it's appropriate to move the election of chair and vice chair to um next month's meeting. Now we do have a request next for um continuence. This is for um HPB25-0656,
1,600 Washington Avenue, 42516th Street, and 161 Drexel Avenue. The board may remember this. This was um first before you last November, continue through January, continue till today because of the cancellation meeting. I've been meeting with the applicant um since um
Christmas and they've failed to um address the concerns of the board, which is why they're asking for another continuence. at this point. Um, let me see if is the applicant here for um,600 Washington Avenue. Um, I believe they're asking for a
continuence till the um, let me see. Give me one second. >> It says automatically continued to 113. >> It was that was the previous that was the previous um, >> it was continued from the >> Sorry. It should be automatically
continued from yeah continued from the 113 meeting to today's meeting. Um but I think the applicants requesting a continuence till the um April meeting. Let me see just a second. just a second.
Uh the request let's continue to the um April 14th meeting. >> I I have a question for the city attorney, >> Nick. How many times can an applicant continue an item? Is there a limit?
>> Well, the deferral that you saw with the Fountain Blue application, that's one time. Um, how many times can the board continue an application? >> No. No. An applicant continue their application. >> The only way for an applicant to to
continue an application on their own is to pay the one-time deferral. um which is what you saw with the with the with the first application on today's agenda. >> So I I'm >> everything other than that would require the board to vote to grant the continuence.
>> But can an applicant uh repeatedly uh seek a continuence? >> Yes. Although I think there is a time limit. >> There's a maximum of 120 days between between um continuences. >> Okay. Thank you. So I would move to continue this item until did you say the
April meeting? >> April meeting. Correct. Yes, >> but they have been working in good faith to not to to address the concerns of the board. And that's why I think if I told them they were okay, they could have come before the meeting, you know, next month, but they're still not there. >> I'll second that. >> I'll second that.
>> All in favor? >> I I >> opposed. So, that application has been continued to the April 14th meeting. And then we'll proceed with the um the first item on the agenda for um regular um approval is um HPB25-0684.
This is um 833 6 street fire station number one. And I'll brief I'll read a brief introduction to the application and then the applicant will um give their presentation and there'll be time for um public comment. So again this is HPB2-0684
83366 street. Um, this is for the property for the site of the the former of the Southshore Community Center. The current application is to reestablish the historic preservation board approvals for the demolition of the Southshore Community Center, the construction of the new fire station and the installation of the previously
approved um Apollo mural. These approvals were originally granted by the board in 2022 and 2023, but were not implemented due to a city commission decision to pursue an alternate location site in Flamingo Park. and following subsequent city commission direction to proceed again in the site, the project
has been resubmitted for reapproval. Now, the existing Southshore Community Center has been determined previously um by the board to be non-contributing in the Flingo Park Historic District and um could not be reasonably reasonably adapted to meet the operational security and resiliency requirements of a modern
municipal fire station. Now, there is a separate um an ongoing designation process for the Southshore Community Center, which was initiated last year. That process has not been completed and is independent of the current application. Um this project does respond to the the um prior board's
concerns and approvals through the incorporation of select architectural elements from the existing building, improved pedestrian engagement along Sixth Street, and the integration of the significant public art through the Apollo mural. I would note that the HPB's direct action on demolition is advisory in nature as final approval
does rest with the city commission. The city commission has the ultimate authority to approve or deny demolition for um um government um owned parcels based on the project history um prior board approvals and actions and incorporation of historic design elements and continued public benefit associated with the installation of the
Apollo mural. Staff recommends that the board provide an advisory recommend recommendation in support of the demolition and approve the certificate of appropriateness for the new fire station and mural installation. With that, turn it over to the um city for the presentation.
>> Before you do your presentation, is there any are there any questions for the staff about this? No. Okay. >> No. All right. Thank you. >> Good morning. David Gomez, director of the office of capital improvement projects. Uh, it is my pleasure to be here before you today. Unfortunately,
Michael stole everything I was going to say. Um, as he mentioned, the project has did receive approvals in 2022 and 2023. Um, because of direction of the commission to look at alternate sites, we we abandoned that application or or that
permit. We even had the permit in hand at that point uh to look at an alternate site. As of December, the commission asked us to come back to the original location, which is this one. And we're here before you to seek approval of the original approved plan uh so that we can
move forward with that construction. And and with that, I'd like to ask uh Jason Jensen of Watermaker Jensen to walk us through the presentation. >> Thank you. Glad to be back again. um the project that uh we've been working on for quite some time. Um and actually
just to add on to that since that time this uh project was actually awarded a state design award uh specifically in the area of resiliency and sustainability. So excited to implement that. It will be uh the most resilient fire station uh in the city. It'll be
the only location that you can actually keep apparatus on the island. Uh so that adds a tremendous amount of value to the fire department. Going back through this uh proposal, obviously uh location falls right in
between two different historic districts with Ocean Beach and Flamingo Park right on the edge. Uh characteristics within the neighborhood. Uh we obviously analyze uh some of the contributing factors within the neighborhood. uh but
most of the references are directly from the the site that we are using for our building from a site plan uh standpoint. This is the existing site. You see the location in dark gray of the existing building uh
the parking and the access to the alley that is all existing and some of those uh alley access we are remaining in place for the new project. This is an overlay that shows you the
fire station in green with the dashed red line and its location in the center of the site. It has two ramps on either side that allow you to uh raise that elevation. So get the apparatus out of the flood plane and that allows some
parking to happen below the building as well. So we're able to get all of the parking needed for the station and then maintain some of the existing parking behind the station as well. The areas in green indicate uh parts of the existing building uh that that are
going to remain. So we didn't only replicate but we actually are maintaining artifacts from the original building which I think is adds to that street level experience and that remembrance when you're on Sixth Street of that original walk will be maintained
and enhanced along that path. Uh this shows the access. We are making sure that we maintain uh the turning radiuses for all of the city vehicles throughout the the site and to the alleys. Then going specifically into the design
elements, uh some of the details that are going to remain, we have some board on board detailing for the concrete stair stair railings that's going to be re uh reimagined within the existing the new
building. Uh we have stack bond, we have the planters, a lot of these individual elements that we are uh maintaining or relocating within the new site. uh some of the uh this is highlighting one of the
planters. There are multiple planters along that row. I think that is really one of the contributors to the walk-in experience. So, we're paying lots of attention to keeping that and that will also go into the construction of protecting some of those elements in
construction as well. uh some of the structural elements with the the structural um the double T's and how that's being held. Those are going to be rem uh remain on site. We're actually going to relocate uh one of
those and make a shelter uh out of that structure. And then in the the rear you can see some of the stack bond. We're going to use stack bond within the new structure and some of those unique planters.
Uh some of the shadow box uh folding concrete detailing. We're going to use that again in the same way to highlight the entry and highlight some of the window structures. And here you see in the renderings some of those relo uh either relocated or
maintained planters and the entry structure. But on the left uh in that structure we're actually making a pavilion and and a pocket park essentially on Sixth Street. So that's an opportunity that we can continue to develop with information
about the original uh structure but also potentially about the department. I think that is a community process but we have some seating and some landscape that is going to buffer that area on the the left particularly some of the materials being used the
bristle bristle the planters pavers the stack bond is a ground face uh stack bond so it doesn't need to be painted in the future repainted one of our sustainability factors uh every all of the mechan any mechanical is going to be
hidden from the the neighborhood and the one new aspect is the red fire doors uh for that. Another unique aspect is on the ground level there's a perforated uh you art piece integrated into the
station as part of the entry sequence shield that also shields any of the parking below the building so that you don't see that from the street. From a water standpoint, we have five deep wells on site. We're vastly
improving the the water treatment on site, vastly improving the landscape on site. Uh so currently you don't have any of that. So after this is completed, we will have a much better treatment of water and capture of water on site.
Enhancing some of that landscape along the along sixth. You see some of the detailing in the stairs. You see how the the shadow box around the entry is uh enhancing similar in a similar way to the original building
focusing on the entry into the elevators. And then that stair on the left hand side and the shadow box increases over the stair on the upper level as well to enhance and and capture those windows. See, you're looking to the northeast at
this view up six. And to the left, you see that pocket park where we're reestablishing that entry and recapturing some of those details through the entry. You see that perforated material that hides any uh
visibility of front to the parking lot, some bike parking, the final entry, some of the the signage we're holding, capturing uh single letters with the signage on the Bristol. And then this is looking uh south
southeast. >> So this is this is from um from Jefferson and then highlighting to the the left uh doesn't really capture the full view until you see the Apollo on it. But since these are two applicants, we'll show you get deeper into the
Apollo mural in a minute. And this is a bird's eye view from Radian. If you were in behind the building, uh we are not it's there was a conscious effort to not be the back of the building. So we're looking to treat the
building from all sides. So using stack bond again in the back and then you see some of the access to the parking below. Bird's eye view of the whole site. Then the front view. So, it's just going to go right into the Apollo mural since these are originally
two different applications. Um, we're excited as a team to be able to capture this. The the size of the Apollo mural happens to be almost exactly the size of this building. So, it it was almost like it was meant to be relocated to this
site. Um, so looking back at the the history of Jack Stewart, uh, you know, accomplished mural artist, he actually invented new techniques for stained glass and and mosaics. Uh, and I think that has allowed his work to really
endure and uh, both physically uh, and visually uh, over the test of time. Uh, he was a Yale graduate. uh also went to Colombia. He's worked in diff many different mediums, but obviously mural was his his
highlight. >> And obviously there's there's meaning between the Apollo and um running the chariot through this site and the spacing and all of the original spacing and the sizing were able to accommodate. So these even though these are multiple
pieces, we're able to suspend it as it as it was originally intended. So it it will be on the Jefferson side, so it's on the north side. Uh I think that's important because that you get north light versus south light, so it protects it a little bit more over time.
And we're suspending it in front of the system. So as it was originally suspended. So we have a a frame system. uh essentially a perforated backdrop to it. So we get a a nice clean we still do
need to have some windows on that facade for the interior spaces, but we put the perforation to give us a clean slate backdrop for it. We standed off of the the windows and then we have a lighting system that's going to come in front of that to make sure that it is seen
properly in the evening. I think that will actually be the best time to see it. It's really fantastic in this and the elevation of it. You will see it as you drive uh down uh near this this location. So it will have that elevated experience,
the final sunset view. So that concludes our application. I think we we're excited to bring this project uh back to life. I think you know there's a lot of effort gone with the board in the past to uh make tweaks
and additions to this. They were made both in the landscape. We we revised the railing detail. We incorporated some of those original materials and then capturing some of those original building elements were all things that you all brought to the table. We and the
city implemented and proud of the outcome. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um are there any Well, before there are questions for the applicant, I think there's a a comment you'd like to make that will amplify the application for us and then we can have questions for the applicant.
>> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I I've cleared this with staff. I just like to uh make a little presentation on uh Jack Stewart's uh uh Apollo mural. Apollo pulling his son driving his son chariot
across the sky on the right. And you you'll see images in this in my uh when I get into the uh media presentation, a short media presentation. Uh on the right side is Latonia and her twins uh
Artemis and Apollo. And then uh to the left of them then you see Apollo riding his son Chariot uh to see his sister uh the goddess uh uh Arminus. Uh did I say that right? >> Artemis.
>> Artemis. Artemis. Uh Artemis is the goddess of the moon uh uh women. She was uh fiercely independent uh celebrated a life of chastity uh and uh it really tells quite a story.
Uh Jack Stewart uh as was mentioned an educator, a scholar, a muralist, a painter, uh an author. uh his one of his books uh Graffiti Kings released in the 70s is uh is still in reprint and it's
become uh the Bible to people uh who who appreciate uh that uh graffiti. Um and the presentation I'm about to that that'll appear in a few moments is uh >> Scott is your neighborhood. What's the
neighborhood feeling at this point? Hold on please. I recognize that voice. Uh the the presentation is uh a uh conversation. Actually it was a committee committee meeting
meeting a committee meeting of the geo bond oversight advisory committee from 2023 of city officials. Uh we have uh the the chairwoman car Karen Revo, uh the former fire chief, Virgil Fernandez,
the assistant city manager, Maria Hernandez, uh the neighborhoods coordinator. Lauren Fertell makes uh an appearance. And Scott Needleman, formerly uh who served on the uh GEO
bond committee, now he's a planning board member. He uh also is the chairman of the Flamingo Park Neighborhood Association. And and on a side note, uh we happen to share the same birthday.
So, uh PJ, if you can uh roll roll that presentation. >> You're going to leave us hanging when your birthday is? >> Well, you'll find out. >> I'll find out. Okay. All right. Don't >> What's the neighborhood feeling at this point? Well, I think you hear there's plenty of people that are looking forward to a new state-of-the-art fire
station going in and then there's the people that, you know, don't want to see the existing building go away. So, still mixed. You know, it may change a little bit because at the July HPB meeting, the fire station is going in front again for the mural that's going to go on the I
guess it's the west elevation. And I did see a rendering of that and it really looks I mean it really really looks nice and I think it's going to be a a terrific addition to the fire station and I think that will hopefully get some people to to maybe maybe lessen their
animosity towards what's happening. >> I'm sorry to interrupt. I can tell you that we're equally as excited. I mean, I've had some conversations with Mitch and, you know, to the extent that the outer shell of the building can accommodate anything that the neighborhood wants, I'm glad I know he
he brought it up and at one time I I think he thought it it may have been taken as a joke, but we were we were pretty serious about including it as part of the station and uh and then Maria got to work. So, I think it'll be a a good addition and I think it'll be something that the community can be uh proud of. Maria, you want to just tell
them or somebody tell them just in case? >> Sure. I can I can speak a little bit about it. I mean, Mitch Novak and I were talking about this mural since we started the convention center way back in like 2014 or 15. It's called the Apollo mural and it is the god of I
think it was the god of fire or or ironically or or the sun or something. But the mural was on a historic building that the FAA purchased for one reason or another. It got taken down and it was going to be discarded. But the developer
kept it and has donated it to the city and has also agreed to pay the majority of the costs if not all of the costs to actually refurbish it and put it somewhere. So for years we looked for a place and it's huge. I mean it it
doesn't just fit anywhere. It's 100 ft long and and 17t tall. And we looked and looked and couldn't find any place. And then I don't even remember how it was that we thought, well, what about the fire station? And lo and behold, you know, number one, it's in a historic
district and it is a historic mural. And the artist was known by Mitch and the widow of the artist is a very nice lady that wanted this thing to get saved. And so Rosa Loinger, who is the conservator, was able to refurbish it off site. And
we've been able to save this thing and and put it on the facade of the building. And ironically enough, it's going to be on the facade that is facing one of Mitch Novc's buildings. I mean, it's crazy that it even ended up there, you know, but it just did. And and and
the fire department loved it when we showed it to them. So, it's a win-win. It's a It's really a community win-win. The preservation is win-win. The art people win. It It's a win for everybody. So, we're really happy to have made it happen. And it took a lot of departments, tourism, culture, David's
department. I know that Colette Satchel has struggled with this thing structurally to put it on the building and and get it up there. But, um, it's going to go in front of HPB. So, let's see what they think. But, it's really it's a great story once it's all it's all put together.
>> And I think I saw Lauren. Were you trying to show us a picture of it? >> Colette and I met with Mitch Novik yesterday just to touch base about it. It is a very cool story and it is >> it is it together preserve some of these kind of things.
>> M Revo, not to beat up on this anymore, but did Google him real quick and he's been recognized as a god of archery, music and dance, truth and prophecy, healing and disease which I think is pretty appropriate. The son of light, poetry, and more. That's >> Oh my
god. >> That just sums up everybody in Miami Beach. That's great. Thank you. >> Thank you, Scott. It's your neighborhood. What's the neighborhood feeling at this point? >> Well, I think you hear there's >> PJ. That's it. Thank you.
All right. All right. Um, thank you very much. So, um I think if we I think that kind of concluded the presentation, but we have if we have questions for the applicant, maybe I I I don't know if anybody has
one. I definitely had one, but um go ahead, Mitch. >> Two questions. Uh David, you mentioned you had the permit in hand. Is that permit still uh active? >> We have reinstated the building permits and DM permits.
>> Okay, that's good to hear. And um the architect you've mentioned a few times you're maintaining and relocating. Uh does that imply replication? >> Uh some some elements are um kept in
place. Uh the entry piece is is being relocated. So uh the planters are being kept predominantly in place. a couple uh where we are adding new planters. We're going to match the original. >> Gotcha. Okay. Thanks.
>> Ray, >> well, I'm the only member of this board that was there in 2022 that voted for this proposal. I thought it was fabulous then. I think it's fabulous now. And I certainly hope that our fellow board
members here agree. Um we're four years behind. um and probably a lot of dollars, but a lot of the people were concerned about losing the rec center. And remember, there was a 21st Street rec center that
was taken down so that we could build a ballroom for the uh for the convention center. And all of those services got relocated. Everybody's happy with where they are now. And the same thing is going to happen here. And I just want everybody to realize that. Yes, things
can't happen immediately, but they will happen in the long run and everything will be better. Thank you. >> Okay, thank you. Um, Elizabeth, >> I was just going to continue John's ask question. Would you mind going over
again which pieces are um going are going to be maintained exactly in the same place and which are going to be relocated and what's going to be replicated because there's um a little bit of everything. It's just so we can have a clear understanding. >> Correct. If they could bring back up the
presentation. Just give me a second to move back. Okay. So the the piece on the right is being maintained. That's existing. >> You can you use your cursor on the computer to help? Yeah. Just point to it. >> There you go. Thank you.
>> Perfect. Thank you. So this this piece would be existing to remain. Uh planters that are within the center those are those would be new. So those are not highlighted. Uh and then this is a planter to remain. These these planters
remain as well. This piece is the vertical piece is re relocated. >> Could you show us where it's going to go >> on a rendering? >> This this is here. This piece.
>> So that the the vertical piece. >> Yeah. >> So um I'm sorry I'm having a hard time. Can you tell me where that piece is in the site the proposed site plan? >> Um, >> I think the confusion is that this is the proposed.
>> Could you go back? >> No, this is the Oh, I thought this was the existing. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And so this is the the prop this is the sorry the existing um and the only
difference is see the where these red that's where the that piece exists now. So that canopy exists in this location now. So we're simply taking it from that piece and relocating to this. So that far show the photo.
>> Okay. >> Let's see. >> No, now I >> Okay, let's see. >> Now I understand. just moving to this. There you go. So to the the left, this uh the planters that are being maintained are just to the left of that. Um it it just this made a lot more sense
to just move it to in between the planters and then it can be that essentially pavilion for that pocket park piece. >> Thank you. And one more question. Could you go over the detail of the lighting above the mural?
>> Okay. Yes. Okay. So, this this is a detail of that lighting. So, the the lighting would would to get consistency with it and really highlight just the the mural. It's coming directly off of the building with stansions and then projecting back
uh consistently to the mural from the face of the building. So from the top it would come out and then come across the mural from the top. >> How far out are those elements
sticking in front of the support wall or element? >> Know that >> I I say approx approximately 3 ft. >> Okay. No, because uh in in the the video
that Mitch showed of the existing structure, there is like a frame on the top that there was like a gap, a recessed area between the frame and the mural, which if you could reproduce the same detail would be a great place to put the lighting and then we wouldn't
have those elements sticking in front of the mural. I'm not a lighting design ex expert, but I've seen things done this way, and I thought it would be a great opportunity to hide all that mass that may be created by having the light
sticking out. >> Okay. Well, certainly dig into the details for it. And I think our uh our main main concern we want to make sure that we present it like properly so that the mosaic pieces at at the evening we
want to make sure that light comes out far enough that they don't create such a shadow that it takes away from that but we will absolutely dig into the details of that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Mission you have a question. >> Yeah. Uh and then
>> uh we're we're advisory in nature. Uh so what is your time frame? Uh even if we were to vote this down or uh of course approve it without your approval, it would delay it a little bit. Um we would have to go back to commission for
approval. We are looking at commencing the construction of the temporary daycare facility this summer. Uh and commencing construction at the Southshore community site end of this year, beginning of next. That would be
the demolition of the facility. And in terms of the uh construction of the new facility, >> it's about a year and a half. Once we start at the Southshore site, it's about a year and a half. >> Okay. So, we're talking sometime in 2028.
>> 2028. >> Okay. Uh question regarding uh if the mural should need servicing uh not to interfere with the fire equipment uh the
vehicles that would likely be trans transversing uh below. How how will that be performed? Is there a ledge or will it be somebody repelling or >> um Well, so this this station two two
factors the apparatus space have doors on both sides. So they're drive-thru uh which is a real advantage for the the department, but it also allows them to exit either side. So if you need to actually access one, you can access it
from the the ramp and the ramp is level at that point. So you come, the apparatus can come out of the bays and fully sit on the apron um without uh significant slope. So vice versa, if you need to have a lift to access the mural,
you have a flat surface to do so. >> And and the garage uh or or the uh that facility, it's straight through. There's no demising wall between them. Correct. >> I imagine that the vehicles would enter on Meridian and exit Jefferson, but
that's not necessarily the case, right? >> Uh they have the option to go either direction, but that that is the the preferred turnout time, you know, using the light and being able to move either direction. >> Okay. I I I have some questions for the
fire department if if anyone's available. Jake was back there. What's that? >> Yes, sir. Good morning. >> Hey, good morning, Chief. The
Tell us about the new uh cycle lane that was added to Jefferson Avenue. How is that impacted you if if it has impacted your department at all? Uh >> um good morning um chair, madame chair
and fire chief dign. So the the bike lane across the street from current station one has made it quite challenging for our members to do a northbound or southbound um exit. And I think we've been working with Jose from
transportation to make sure that um at least the bulards in front of the fire station are not there so we're not going over a 80,000 lb truck and destroying our axles. Um as far as the rest of the
city, it is it's challenging in the sense that um the bikers are not in the bike lane like they're supposed to be. So it you know it defeats the purpose as to why it is that we have dedicated bike lanes but as far as operations and you
know that aspect where >> all right um so has there been any talk of narrowing these cycle lanes so your trucks can uh >> not not that I'm aware of at least not that's been proposed to me. So, so it's
highly unlikely that uh those spots that uh as was mentioned my uh residents enjoy today, they're going to be losing them. Uh uh >> well, in in the last >> Wait, I'm sorry. I'm not done. uh unless
the radius uh could be created within the setback of the property to make it easier for your vehicles to uh
>> three lane. So, so the last design that I saw before we flip-flopped to the other location, it didn't have a bike lane and there was no um bike lane as far as the plans go because then yes, you are right. It will have to eliminate
the parking across the street in order to accommodate one or the other. Um, you know, we just we just can't we don't have that. It's a 100 foot ladder before it exits out, you know, 20 foot lanes. >> What about the possibility uh being it is
uh public uh city property, government property of altering or modifying the radi of that turn to make it easier for the vehicles to uh enter and exit. >> We can absolutely look into that. We
already have a very wide driveway that gives them a little bit more flexibility. Um, but I think the easier solution is to just figure out how to not put in those barriers on the bike lane so that they don't have that issue even if it's just for that stretch next to the fire station.
>> Okay. So, so state so state statute regardless um requires that the 20 ft in front of the fire station has no parking regardless. So regardless, my my priority was always that whatever displacement of parking is being done that we accommodate it at least in a
different area. >> And in full transparency, there will be some parking loss on the street. The advantage that this plan has is that under the current fire station one, all of the firefighters are parking in the neighborhood. This plan provides parking
within the site so that we free up that space on on the street. How many spots will be on site? >> Approximately 30 35 >> 34 >> 34 spaces. >> How many are utilized at any given >> 12? So 12 is for a shift and then in the
morning we just have a slight maybe 20 30 minute overlap with the other crews coming in. Um so 24 >> would it be inappropriate to have a discussion that doesn't necessarily need to be here for those properties uh
surrounding the station that should lose uh the street parking to be afforded the opportunity to perhaps uh park on site at the facility the new facility. I think we're open to any discussion that
will help the neighborhood and and accommodate the neighborhood. The challenge we have on this site is because of the nature of the of the facility, we want to protect those vehicles as much as we can and and intermingling them makes that a little more difficult. >> Yeah. Okay.
Thank you. Thank you. Uh Randy, uh yeah, could you put the elevation of the mural on the new building up again, please? prefer the date. Okay. I I thought I saw where you could actually see all the windows behind it
and everything. Is there no way to create a screen that's more characteristic of the original flat my concern several that you turn the lights on at nighttime in the rooms and that's going to completely distort the look of the the mural unless the lighting overwhelms it on the outside. Um, and
the screening today you can get so many options of screening. This looks like you can't I I thought I saw one of your elevations that looked like you actually could see all the >> window >> activity behind it, which is not in character with the mural. It was never designed to be a floating mural in front
of a windowed building. And I'm concerned it takes on a whole different character in reality versus artistic. Um, there you just passed it back. >> I I just wanted to go back one. was one where you could actually see all the windows and everything behind the mural.
>> And I'm surprised you can't get a screen that is more >> so >> that's just a punch hole screen >> punch metal, >> right? We could, you know, that that's not a final, you know, selection. So, we can certainly continue to look at that.
It is balancing having some having natural light into those windows, but maybe there's potentially a screen that the openings are more, you know, up or like maybe directional. So, we can we can certainly look into that. >> Okay. I mean, I've seen a lot of screens
where you really can't see through it. The the surface of the screen takes over your eye versus what's behind the screen, >> right? You're you're correct, though, like the the light conditions. Uh we want to put a lot of light in front of it, right? you know, for, you know, for a lot of that those same reasons. Uh, so
we really want to project in front of it. Um, but that's certainly something that we'll analyze and and look even on site to to, you know, finally make a final selection, but I I I think it's a good comment. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, can you put the site plan up again? The the new site
plan? I I don't understand it very clearly. It's kind of a graphic. Um, >> yeah, that's hard to understand. Where's the vest pocket park? I I don't see I don't understand the plan well enough to understand where you say there's a park.
>> So So these green areas um you have the we've pushed the station back as far far as we can and we've tucked the the ramps back. Uh so where you come out of the out of the doors, you have some space
and then you kind of push back to get a narrowing of those ramps as when you actually get to Jefferson and Meridian. So that opens up some green space on the corners on each side. So those are the areas that we're uh putting a lot of
emphasis into the plantings to buffer the the ramping also to give some backdrop to those planters and where we're creating that new installation in the front. >> It's just it's a little deceiving when you say it's a vest pocket park when I consider just to be basically
landscaping around the building. It's not a park you would go to. There's no grass. It your your landscaping on your renderings is extremely >> Yeah. The term the term pocket park is more of a urban term for it does have seating. It does have you know some some
attraction to it but it would be more of a respbit along six than a a >> just a side place to sit off the sidewalk. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Is that it? Yep. Okay. Thank you, Lindsay. >> Well, I think my question was going to be for Chief, but she has stepped out.
So, um she's coming back. Okay. Um, yeah. I mean, I guess my question, and Eric, I don't know if you can speak to this or not. I mean, are are is the fire department happy and ready to go with this? I mean, that's that's honestly my biggest concern at this point.
>> Hi, good morning everyone. Uh, Eric is representing the Miami Beach firefighters, the union. I can tell you as far as the the union body, all our firefighters were ecstatic that the commission voted unanimously uh to move this uh forward. So, I can say on on behalf of our membership. Absolutely.
And uh I think it's it's very beautiful. Also, Mitch, thank you for promoting the Apollo mural. Uh obviously, it's it's very fitting that it would, you know, land at the fire station. Apollo being, you know, the the sun god, the god of medicine. And uh I have to take a point of personal privilege.
I have to. This is my dog. His name is Apollo. So even though I'm away away from him for 24 hours, uh I'll have, you know, the the idea of him, you know, uh at the fire station. So thank you for, you know, not letting that amazing piece of artwork, you know, uh just get thrown
away. So we're as a membership very excited to see it. >> And so Chief, my question, my question, >> sorry, I was in the bathroom. I couldn't >> How dare you? >> I know. you know. Um, no, my question was was really, you know, are you guys happy with where we are with the design and the
structure of it and all that. I know we've been waiting a long time for this. I just want to make sure that you know where you guys stand. >> No, absolutely. And it it is a great opportunity to try to circle back and get this project uh going um you know,
so we can have a a new home. And I am a total fan of the Apollo. I'm like, "Oh, maybe we can have like t-shirts and it can be, but I'll push it." >> Okay. Um, thank you. >> Great. Thank you. Uh, Mitch, another question.
>> Yeah, for the architect. >> Uh, the lighting that'll be projected onto the uh, mural. Uh, what's the Kelvin temperature? That's my pet peeve as my colleagues are beginning to realize.
going straight to the technical. Um yeah, like >> yeah, 3500. Uh so that that definitely it will be it will be um not just general lighting. It will be treated as a museum piece. So we'll we'll be
looking at at that directly. >> Uh so yeah, I think it's important when we tell the lighting designer like it's not designed to be building lighting. is designed to be to bring out the colors of the >> Okay. As long as and I appreciate that
you're aware of that. I think 35 could be appropriate or less uh certainly not more uh than 35. >> Glad I didn't say 4,000. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> No, that's it's a very relevant piece. Yeah. Part of the it can look completely
different in in the different light. >> Yeah. >> Um I had uh one last question. I was going to follow up on Randy's. Can you put this section up with the mural? Um Ry's question just where the um cuz you had two scales in that section. You had
a closeup and a Yeah. So on the on the right side the perforated screen. It's not I guess that you It's a halfinch perforated metal. So that means how far are the perforations from one another? >> Do you have any idea?
>> There's two different conditions with that. Um, you have the size of the holes and then you have the size of the spacing between them. >> Exactly. >> Right. >> So, the spacing between them is what I'm asking about. >> Yeah. >> I I don't want to misspe on that. I don't know exactly that that it's, you
know, it's typically, you know, less than the half inch. So, if it's half inch, then it's quarter inch between uh just depending on the punch apparatus. So it's more dark than I mean more uh open than like is the is the sheet
that's the back background of the mural like 50% >> based >> based on the based on the comments today I I I think we'll re-evaluate the half inch and uh reduce that >> to to a smaller um
>> addition so I I I think based on the comments we'll reevaluate that. >> Okay. Thank you. I I do think that also for heat gain I mean it could also act as if it's on the west facade it could be very um you know it could help those >> those offices behind it not gain heat in
the afternoon when there's when it's the hottest and the brightest sun. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. I had one one other question. Uh this is because you mentioned this is you said two applications. I'm not sure that's actually accurate. So I was going to act I was going to see >> originally
>> two I I understand but I was just making sure that now it is one and in the order I was going to just make sure that in the order the mural is specifically addressed. It's not I just see the word mural. I didn't see in the order itself or the or it says the murals. Um so I
didn't know whether it should actually articulate the mural you're talking about. Yes, >> it should. Let me make sure. >> It's on Yeah, it's on page 206 of of our of our order. Uh D uh 1D. >> Yes. Yes. >> Oh, >> I'll take a look and see. I'll take a
look at the prior order on the mural. Okay. >> And see if we're missing anything and I'll let you know before we finalize the approval of this. >> Perfect. All right. Great. Thank you. Um, yeah, because we've spent so much time on a very specific mural >> that was saved thanks to a very specific
human on May 8th birthday. Um, so, uh, with that, I thank you for your for your presentation. Are there any disclosures? Uh, board disclosures, disclosures, disclosures. I'll disclose that I was also I was here since this began and um
on the last on the last uh approval. So, um, with Rey and, um, now I guess we open it to public. Yes, Lindsay. >> I mean, I I don't know. I mean, I was involved in discussing with the previous fire chief about the prior project and I've talked with Chief Abello about this
project and its various iterations. So, from a perspective of disclosure, there >> I think that's what I say just as a disclosure. It's been a long history. um and uh also on the FAA project as well. But um are there any um public
members of the public wishing to speak? >> See, hey, >> yes, here. >> Roger Gold, Miami Design Preservation League. uh 50 years ago pretty much we were set up to preserve and protect which is probably why you'll understand that we
stand in opposition to the demolition of the Southshore Community Center as a significant civic civic work by Mars Lapidis whose influence helped shape Miami Beach's architectural identity as an early and remarkable intact example
of Lapidis's modernistic public architecture. The building represents a defining moment in the city's post-war evolution when design was not only used to create ionic resort destinations, but also to elevate the everyday life of residents through ambitious civic
investment. His sculptural forms, human scale modernism, and contextual relationship to the surrounding neighborhood, embody principles that would later contribute to Miami Beach's international reputation. Demolition of this structure would constitute an
irreversible loss of an architectural and culturally significant resource, eliminating a tangible link to Miami Beach's midcentury civic history and to one of the city's most influential designers. Preservation, by contrast,
offers the opportunity for sensitive adaptive reuse, allowing the Southshore Community Center to continue serving the public while honoring its architectural legacy, reinforcing neighborhood continuity and affirming Mommy Beach's
longstanding commitment to re-imagining the historic built environment rather than replacing it. Another one bites the dust. MDPL does not take a position on the architectural design of the proposed new firehouse. However, we strongly support the
continued efforts to ensure that the Apollo mural is permanently installed within a publicly accessible setting in Miami Beach, allowing this important cultural work to remain visible, protected, and integrated into the city's public realm. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Any anybody else present like to speak? Good morning. My name is Julie Isacson. I reside at 85015th Street. Um I am speaking as a resident even though I am full disclosure involved with the Miami
Design Preservation League advocacy committee. Um, I'm 100% against the destruction of a building designed by prolific architect Morris Lapidus. We are already dealing
with the loss of local jurisdiction for what happens to our historic building as deemed by the Florida State Legislature. It's a travesty to even consider tearing down this building. And I really want to go back one more and and put a pinpoint
on we are fighting with the Florida State Legislature about saving our historic buildings and for us to go and demolish one is a travesty. I I honestly can't think of another word for it. The
Southshore Community Center in Miami Beach designed by the renowned architect Morris Lapidis is an important example of his later lessernown works. Excuse me, I lost my page. Um,
less known work reflecting postmodern and perhaps brutalist influences on his concrete forms and adaptation to social needs. Though it's not strictly a classic art deco building like many of others in the city, Lapidotus created it
in 1969 as a community hub, showcasing a departure from his famous hotel designs and highlighting urban development and really would be a serious shame to
demolish the building. And I also want to add, aside from historic preservation, which is usually my main concern, it's a terrible spot for a firehouse, it doesn't have easy egress
for um quick response. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Hi, good morning. Um, my name is Janette Dorfman and I am a member of the Miami Design Preservation League and I just want to reiterate um the stance of the Miami Design Preservation League on our
opposition of the demolition of this um essentially intact building. Uh, it's one of the last few remaining examples of Morris Lapidis' uh public civic uh architectural design which is supposed to be human scale. Um, I'm I'm
immediately surprised that I was I'm here I know that we're not here to discuss the Fountain Blue, but we have such a limited amount of examples of more lapidous buildings. Um, and the fact that the city of Miami Beach, you know, continues to have at least four to five unaltered examples of more lapidous
buildings and we're just essentially going to, you know, toss this one out is quite alarming to me. And um as a lifelong resident, I really think that I we need to um continue to preserve what we can when we can. And I don't feel
like this um as as important as it is and I understand the need for a fire station, I don't think that the uh there's enough push for adaptive reuse and what I see as being designed in this fire station. I mean, we're keeping what, like planters in an entryway. It
it doesn't go far enough to preserve um what we're trying to um put forth into the world that we honor our history. We honor our um our architects that, you know, fundamentally altered the landscape of um Miami Beach. Um, I would
like to urge the uh this honorable board to think of more creative ways to possibly tweak some more adaptive reuse in this design. And uh, thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Anyone else here? Oh, yes.
>> Joe Manning, 30-year resident of Miami Beach, committed preservationist, as is everyone in my family here and abroad. I'm speaking as a private citizen even though I am on the board of the Miami Design Preservation League. I was for
six years plus a member of this board. And John, could you help me out? >> I I remember we sat next to each other. >> Yes, we did. >> I remember when the FA project came around. >> There was never any talk of discarding
that mural. Never. But we didn't ask the fan of people to put it in writing. But we were never going to discard it. Somebody in Mitch's presentation said it was going to be discarded. No. I mean, I know I'm getting old and my memory is
fading, but I remember this clearly. Can you help me out? >> You were my mentor and I sat next to you and you you helped me through uh those first days when FA came through. So, thank you. Thank you for that. Um, Joe. So, um, no, I I I that's my memory as
well. I'd have to go back to look at the watch the tapes, but yeah. >> Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. And there are so many places this mural could be put. It doesn't have to be put in the fire department. And to me, there are two issues here. And I want to make that clear.
I respect and admire the fire department and firefighters. They are dedicated to saving the lives of people and their homes. There is no question about that. But there are two separate issues here. And one of them is the preservation of
historic property. And please give me enough time to talk about this because one of the things that broke my heart when we were on the historic preservation board was the demolition of 42 Star Island. That should never have
happened. That was one that was the first licensed architect in Miami Beach. Walter Darmmo destroyed. No reason for that. Absolutely none. It was in solid shape. It was a fine
example of an historic building. I live in an historic building, a 1937 hotel. We do our best to maintain it, to keep it going. We just had a 40-year reertification. It was repainted. The city has appreciated what we what we
have done and we appreciate living there. You cannot keep destroying these buildings. It's wanting destruction. And yes, it's a different kind of Morris Lapidus building. That doesn't take anything away from it. We have to work
hard to keep this. And I still think there are better places for the fire department. I really do. And the other issue is the community. At one of the previous meetings, someone said the people in the community could not appear
for this. Can >> I give you one one more minute? Is that with that and help you? Okay. >> That they um they could not appear at these meetings. The people in the I personally know people who rely on that center for one thing, daycare, but for
other reasons as well. And just because they can't show up as the people showed up for the uh the Fountain Blue because they're working is no reason to discard what they might think. I think they have
to be communicated with again because I think that's important, too. You can't tear away the fabric of our city like this. I mean, it's a community. We're residents. We count. We vote. We pay taxes. I don't want to be that crass but
and the historic preservation board has to preserve historic preservation otherwise I hate to say it it's not the historic preservation board it's that we are playing at historic preservation
board and that's a disgrace. Thank you. >> Thank you. Is there anybody online who'd like to weigh? >> Yes, we have a sorry got um several callers online with their hand raised. Okay. The first is um Susanna Santoro. >> Susanna, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth? >> Yes, I swear. >> Thank you. You have two minutes. >> Okay. Chair, for the record, I understand the item of the font in blue is not being heard today and my comment is limited to process. In general, a
variance is discretionary is an exception, not an entitlement. Where a request presents clear and repeated concerns regarding public safety, emergency response, traffic congestion, and infrastructure capacity, it is
appropriate to question why continued accommodations. >> Do you have being extended at all? This is a general comment. It's not specific to this papant blue as I said at this at the beginning. So repeated continuences and last minute deferrals
require residences to repeatedly rely on notice earrings and accommodating a private applicant without timely public notice creates the appearance that public participation is secondary undermining transparency due process and
public trust. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Okay, next caller is Johan Moore. Johan, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes, I do. Good morning. >> You have two minutes. >> Thank you. Good morning, board members.
Uh, I will uh uh urgently echo Susanna's comment about process. Uh, and I will pick up though uh uh where Miami Design Preservation League left off uh in complete support of their comments. Uh
the reason we're here today uh figuratively speaking where we are is because of the arrogant self-entitlement of the South of Fifth neighborhood that while it has welcomed skyscrapers and all sorts of demolition of historic
structures over recent years was unwilling to host its fair share of urban heavy municipal heavy infrastructure. That being said, uh the building design is attractive. Uh thank you Mitch for uh advocating for the
mural while there may in fact be other places where it could well go uh sitting in storage for years more while we search for that location is not a good idea. Uh I want to ask a couple of practical questions. uh namely if the
five uh deep wells that were referenced are essentially retention basins uh that will then slowly after the rainfall event is over release that water into our on beach uh aquifer uh parenthetically for those who don't know
not for drinking water. Uh and the um other question uh revolves around um the design elements. Uh can you in fact somehow incorporate more design elements
uh from the existing building uh in particular retaining those elements. Um, I would close by saying that there is a bit of a crisis of trust as a result of the commission's flip-flop on protecting the Southshore Community Center, but
also as we uh anticipate uh 1600 and Washington Avenue, there is a bit of lack of public trust in this board and we ask that you consider that as you move forward with this issue. Thank you very much. >> Thank you.
Our next caller is um Andre Sassion. >> Andreas, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes, sir. Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak. You know, it hurts me so much u to see an amazing piece of
real estate being lost worth millions instead of adding an amazing piece of real estate onto our um onto our beautiful city, you know. Um that mural which is the Apollo
mural which Mitch great job for for putting this into the fire station could have been facing um the running track on the park. You know the 11th Street and Alta Road site that was a very good option which would have been fantastic for the firefighters because the current
fire station is currently on 11th Street currently as well now. And they use those firefighters use the track, they use the pool, they use all that as part of training. It's sort of like becoming part of a campus versus now having a site in the middle of a residential
neighborhood that of course many of the people who there who live there are lowincome and depend on that community center which I've been to many times. Love seeing everybody in that community center, all the elderly folks that are there daily as well as the daycare as
well. And so, you know, it is what it is, but I'll tell you that you had a few people come out and protest about the track being disturbed during this project. Um, and those people seem to have had a louder voice than all the people who can't go and protest because they're out working that now are going
to have, you know, fire trucks in the middle of a residential neighborhood instead of coming out into a commercial street like Alton Road. I would also like to understand why the fire station was revised when it was pitched to the city on Alton Road and added a 911
dispatch center making the fire station look bigger and uh I don't see that being done here on this rendering of the fire station on Sixth Street. So I would love to understand why that happens but I'm I'm sorry to see this piece of
property being lost. >> Thank you. Thank you. address. >> Next caller is um Matthew. >> Matthew, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Good morning. Yes, I do. >> Thank you. Hi, >> Matthew. >> Good morning. My name is Matthew Ganov
and I live at 125 Jefferson Avenue. I'd like to offer a different perspective. I share the same frustration with many on how long this process has taken. And I'm not here to rehash the long-standing controversies about the site location, whether the existing Morris Lapidus
building is contributing or whether it should be demolished. Instead, I want to focus on the design itself and whether in this case form is following function or function is being forced to follow form. A 2015 report showed that roughly 75% of Miami Beach Fire Department calls
were medical emergencies while about 1 half of 1% were actual structure fires with an overall 25% being fire calls. In many cities, that reality has led to smaller, faster medical first response
vehicles like SUVs that move more effectively through dense, congested streets with larger units following only when necessary. And yet over the years, the same large drive-thru station concept before you today has felt non-negotiable. Essentially copypasted
throughout South Beach as other locations were considered. And to be candid, it looks less like a neighborhood fire station and more like an airport fire rescue facility that belongs at a large international airport. So my first suggestion is
simple. reconsider the unprecedented drive-through design feature. That single choice dictates the massing, circulation, footprint, and overall scale. And I urge the city and fire department to take a more datadriven, flexible approach that right sizes the
design and apparatus choices to fit the historic district and South Beach neighborhood it serves. Doing so could improve the outcome for all stakeholders, area residents, the general public, firefighters, and patients. Thank you. Thank you.
>> Next caller is Daniel Saldo. >> Daniel, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. Thank you so much. With all the discussion or sorry, Daniel Saldo, uh, 7:30 10th Street. With all the discussion of the Apollo mural and how
it was saved, one party has been systematically left out both today and in recent hearings. And I'm here to place this history for the record because actions speak louder than words. And nobody has mentioned this so far. When MDPL brought up the Apollo mural
and the desire to save it, Mitch Novak was on the MDPL advocacy committee and he took a lead on this initiative. Mitch is now in the MDPL seat of the historic preservation board. Mitch did a lot to help raise awareness, but the bigger challenge where to store a monumental
mural post demolition. MTPL and I as former executive director personally worked to find a location to store the murals at no charge for several years while the plan for the restoration and funding materialized. Check my public Facebook profile from
May 27th, 2021 for the picture of me and Brandy Reic at a top secret location in Miami during the pandemic out in the yard with the pieces of the Apollo murals there on the ground. They were stripped and heavily damaged. I also want to mention the wonderful Rosa
Lounger and her creative restoration made a difference. I was honored to go visit the murals when they were under restoration at Bake House along with Mitch Andres Vigluchi from the Miami Herald. And so I want the record to reflect MDPL's instrumental role in the
advocacy for this mural. And also let us not forget other monumental murals remain in storage. the Enzo Gala murals that were on the bank at Alton and Lincoln. And if the chair would just give me one more minute to to wrap up, I'd appreciate it.
>> Okay. In the future, let us please lift up all of those who are part of this and other efforts, not diminish them. Just because MDPL might not be advocating right now during their transition like they used to, doesn't mean that all of the hard work should be erased from the
record. So, I would like to encourage a prominent plaque that mentions all the groups that were involved in saving the Apollo mural. It was truly a team effort and it should not be discarded. And finally, I want to congratulate the fire department. Their effective advocacy led
to this building being demolished when just last year was going to be saved. It is proof that effective advocacy matters. Someone should have been at the commission meeting last month to fight for the building. Someone should have spoken up. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Daniel. >> Okay, last caller online is Mag Lust. >> Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> She just texted me. >> Me, are you there? >> Who's that? >> Me?
Can we go back to her? Can we go to the next person? >> Am I Am I live now? >> There you are. Yes. >> Okay. Sorry. >> You swear to the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> I do. Thank you. >> Hi, I'm Meg Wisto. I am the new executive director of the Miami Design
Preservation League. Proudly so. And although I have only been a resident of Miami Beach for three short months, I have been involved in preservation for 30 years. So, um I'm speaking more now to the power of preservation and its importance in community identity, community building, um the importance of
adaptive reuse. As far as this incredible building goes, this this lapidous designed Sasha Community Center, I just want to hearken back to something that uh Roger Goldbug read from our official statement about the this building, what it represents, a
defining moment in the city's post-war evolution when design was not only used to create iconic resort destinations, but also to elevate the everyday life of residents through ambitious civic investment. That's the part that really speaks to me when I look at this building. When I look at its
surroundings, this is a community center and in a lot of cases, community centers are just, you know, they're places where people gather. But Lapidus designed something that was truly elevatory of what this meant for the city of Miami Beach. And I of course fully support the
fire department. I have seen firsthand many times uh what firefighters do and what they bring to communities and the safety and protection they offer. But I do of course concur that it's a real shame if we lose this building, one of the few lapidous buildings remaining in
Miami Beach. Um, I thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> Okay, one last caller with the name just Miami Beach. >> You swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> Here's the truth. My name is Wanda
Jamon, 8305 Cresby Boulevard. Um, I'm calling in complete opposition to the demolition of the center. Um, going back to the vote. I want to make it clear to
this board um that we the residents were not did not know what was going on. This was supposed to be a discussion, not a vote. It was pulled by a commissioner at last the last last hour. Not even the
commissioners knew what was going on. Um there was a lot of pressure by EMS which I definitely support. Um but it was so much going on at one point that I didn't even understand what was going on.
Again, this was called as a discussion, not as a resolution. It was last last minute. A commissioner called it, pulled it out. The mayor called it in for a vote. And this is how it happened. Maybe, maybe not. We could work
something out, but please take that in consideration. And this is a great building. The commissioners had a great uh opening for the seniors there. I'm also a senior citizen. And to kind of bring our hopes up and then from one
second to the other, our dreams were thrown in the floor. Please consider. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. >> That concludes our public comment. >> All right. Uh, thank you very much. I'd like the applicant and maybe the architect to come back up because there
are a few questions that the public raised that they don't ask you directly, but I think some of the questions might be of interest. Um, I took some uh the notes I took were the first one was about the wells. Can you talk a little bit about how these wells um are working
on the site? >> Those are injection wells. Uh so they they do take the storm water uh you know into the aqua aquifer and filter um that is a very large dispersion within the
aquifer before it gets to any other uh water source. >> Okay. So what happens to the water after it uh once the wells are filled? I I don't I don't actually know myself. So >> um they they have a certain capacity a
rate that they uh will allow water to to occupy the injection well. So that's why we have five uh it's it's planned for a 100red-year uh rain event. So in that 100red-year rain event, it has capacity for that flow of rain on that particular
site to stay on site and be uh inhabit those injection wells before dispersing into the neighborhood. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. Uh so dispersing into the neighborhood going into the storm storm >> right if we did not have the injection wells uh planned for that up to that
100year they currently it's it is being dispersed currently into the neighborhood. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, and another one I had was the um maybe do you want to comment on the question about the 911 dispatch facility?
>> When they asked, excuse me, when the commission asked us to look at the Flamingo Park site, they also asked us to look at including the 911 center at that site. The project does not have a budget. Didn't have it for that site
either. It was just exploratory to see what it would look like if it were there. Got it. Okay. Thank you. Um, also maybe maybe someone from the fire department or would know about the there was a question about the 911 calls and the percentage that are for public
health versus fire. Um, thank you, Chief. >> Good morning, Fire Chief Dignamelo. Yeah, so there's um a more clarification to the backstory on that. uh ISO and NFPA which is the standards that we
oblige by nationwide requires that a certain amount of apparatuses because of the amount of water that each apparatus has which is 750 gallons is needed in order to suppress a fire. So the reason why our trucks are as large as they are
is because we have 750 gallons of water and we have three trucks that are required by ISO ratings. So if we lose our ISO rating, then the adverse impact would be everyone's homeowner insurance is going to go up. >> So >> great.
>> The reality is that yeah, our call volume for fires is not as high as medical, but you need 25 people to be at a fire to effectively manage the operation scene. >> Understood. Thank you so much for that clarification.
And um the I I know in the the in the in the order there's a plaque that's being uh included already about the about the building and I was wondering if we could also think about including a plaque because there's this other important
historic element about you know >> for the for the mural >> the mural as well. Yeah, that's what I would I would I I'm just I'm not obviously not voting on this. I'm just saying I'm just trying to go through the public comment to u make sure people realize that they've been heard and yes,
Lindsay, did you have something you wanted to add? Go ahead. Yeah. No. Anybody else? >> Do you mean commentary in general? >> Yes. What? >> Commentary in general or >> any Yes. I'm I'm kind of in the commentary period for the for the board
comment, but I you know the this is kind of the response optional response um by the applicants. Thank you guys very much for your presentation. >> Thank you. >> So what I was clarifying with staff, contrary to what you just said, we are voting. >> It's advisory.
>> It's an advisory vote. >> Of course, we're voting. Yes. Yes. But just not at that moment. I was I was only wondering whether we could I was trying to set it out there. Um Yes, of course. But we weren't voting at that second. There's still board comment. We'll start with >> just a lot of the comment that people
made about they're acting like we're totally tearing down this building and saving nothing. A lot of the more slapous features were saved back in 2022 and again today. Um, a lot of people talked about having this in a
residential neighborhood. I mean, fire station one right now is in a residential neighborhood. And when it was built, we didn't think about all the cars and where people were going to park. The new one has parking for the for the firefighters. And also, all of
South of Fifth didn't exist. So, a firehouse closer to where the highrises are and with the equipment that can handle these highrises is important. And we've spent years trying to redevelop this. Everybody's like, "Not in my
backyard." Well, what happens when there's finally a fire and your backyard burns down? Oh, gee, we should have had a new firehouse. It's time to really move it forward and I appreciate everybody's comments, but I think that we've done a a good job in 2022 and I
think we're doing a good job now. Thank you. >> Thank you, Ray, Lindsay. >> Yeah. So, I mean to that point, um I think one of the things that we've not discussed, and I know this was brought up in the testimony when it was before the board, uh back in 2022, our chief
historic preservation officer, Debbie Tacket, testified that the fire station is critical to the health of our entire historic district. And making sure that we have a fire station that can, you know, perform to the levels that it needs to in the area that it needs to is
very important. Um, I understand and appreciate where MDPL is um on this issue. Um, I I do think that the prior board, the commission, the community, I I think everyone's made efforts to the
nth degree to try to solve this problem as best as it possibly could be done. And we're now 2018, guys. 2018. I along with a majority of the residents in the city voted for the geo bond. $72 million for
public safety infrastructure. 10 million specifically to this project. 10 million specifically to fire station one in 2018. Now we're in 2026 and we've spent a lot of money. We still don't have fire station. Um so you know those are the
things that I want to highlight that I don't think that we've we've brought up. Um it's the practical implications um that we have to weigh against. You know, I think anybody here would agree preservation is an art, not a science, right? It's it's sometimes you have to make decisions
that are harder than you might like to. And you know, I'm sure we would all live to save every single building. But I as a resident of Flamingo Park, I live in a 1930s Elmary Dixon building. if there's a fire. And actually, we did have to call the fire not too long ago because we had smell of like electrical fire.
And I will tell you, they responded immediately full force, the full fire truck, everything because we don't know what that is. We don't know if there's a fire in the attic or if it's just something that smells funny. And so for that, they have to come and clear it. And I want that type of response in my
building and every building around there. whether it's a historic building or whether it's one of the high-rise structures that we have in South Fifth, I value the services that they're going to provide and and that is, you know, really what focuses my decision. Um, and to boot Mitch, I do think you deserve a
lot of credit. Um, as does MDPL on the Apollo mural. Um, you know, I'm I'm really looking forward to that. I've been looking forward to it since before I was on this board. Um, so thank you for that. Thank you for MDPL for, you know, spearheading all of that. Um, so those are my comments.
>> Thank you. Um, Mitch, and then anybody else who wants to, Randy or Elizabeth, if you want to make a comment. >> Okay. When this idea of uh demolishing the uh Southshore Community Center was
first discussed, I was standing at the podium opposing it. Uh that was when Jim Jimmy Morales was our city manager and I worried about the impact on my property
immediately across the street. Uh uh the disruption to my tenants having to deal with sirens, vibration. Um, and as this process progressed, we
learned that the firefighters are living in a facility that's plagued with mold. Uh, Commissioner Fernandez used the term sewer flies. And it got me thinking, public safety
versus historic preservation. Those of you who know me uh I can say uh my life is surrounded uh was built on historic preservation for myself in this city. I first got involved with MDPL in
1988. First as a tour tour guide and then as a uh the longest serving board member in in the organization's history. uh was it I think 30 uh 1993 up until last year uh continuous
service. So again, back to that issue, public safety versus historic preservation. If there was a threat to the community, whether it be a building falling down or in this case uh a
situation where our first responders are in a situation that uh certainly uh impacts or or likely impacts their livelihood. terms of public safety,
healthwise, mold and sewer flies. Uh I'm going to side uh uh with public safety uh in this matter. Uh I might be the lone vote to save the center, but that's
all politics because we are advisory and uh this process it was uh stifled a couple of years ago. the station would have been operating now. Uh but uh as was referenced the flip-flop which uh
who knows how much that cost us. Enough money has been wasted and it's time to move forward. >> Thank you. >> Any any further com Randy? Do you want to have anything to say? No. And Elizabeth?
>> Yes. So I think I'm new in this process because I was not part of you know that historic past that all of you have thankfully highlighted and brought to the conversation but a few things come to my mind. Um and I'm not sure how I
place them at this point but Mitch mentioned public safety versus historic preservation and I'm not sure why does it need to be that. Why couldn't we have public safety and historic preservation? Um, Rey mentioned that nobody wanted it
on their backyard. So maybe that was a default location and I'm not sure. Um, this new design seems to fulfill a lot of the needs from the firefight in our community which makes me very happy about it and also the fact that Apollo mural is finding a new home. So I think
all those are the win-win sides of this conversation. But on the other side, um I question the location of the fire station within a very tight residential neighborhood and the streets being relatively narrow with the bikers and
the parking and the residents. So, uh I wonder if that's the the right location of a fire station. The second thing that occurs to me is that um we have those very large ramps on bringing the trucks up and so those ramps are over 100 foot
long and more than 12 ft high. So they are very significant ramps and I think if we pay attention to the renderings we can get a very good idea of the magnitude of those ramps. So I keep on thinking does that it's a beautiful design. Congratulations to the architect
who work on that. I like the design and I like the fact that they were able to reuse some of the elements of the existing building, but I question if that um design pertains to that location. And those ramps, I think they will be perfect skateboard uh parts for
the kids after hours between the hours when nobody's looking at um and the sides of those ramps are covered in green walls. And green walls, you all know that they don't always work very well. So I'm concerned with the maintenance and the look of those green
walls in the long run. So those are mean the things that have been running through my mind as I hear all this past history on visitation. Thank you >> Randy. >> Um I wasn't going to say anything but I fully support what you just said. I think that the
the ramps are unfortunate because you have to get the elevation so high that they're very inconsistent with the character of a residential neighborhood to have massive concrete ramps or asphalt. I'm not I assume they're concrete of they're over a garage, but I I it does nothing for a neighborhood to
have 40 50 foot wide ramps 12 ft high on a residential street. Um it does very little and I I have to agree with the point that it's unfortunate maybe that we have to put public safety versus historic preservation. I also agree that
they should work together somehow. >> Yep. >> Absolutely. Ray, did you have anything else you want to add? No. Okay. Um, Mr. Chair, if I could just chime in just because this came up during the board's discussion. The board's not voting today on the on the location or the sighting.
Um, you're you know, for for all intents and purposes, you're considering this as you would any other application applying the the review criteria. The only difference being that on demolition, your role is advisory. >> Mitch. >> Yeah. Uh, and I've mentioned this
before. Uh, in an ideal world, uh, or or let me, uh, step back for a moment. Uh, I served on this board from 2001 to 2007. And, um,
there was fire station number four up on 69th Street that uh, consisted at the time of a historic structure. And there was a fight uh and eventually the building came down and uh the trailers
came in and the new facility was built at that site. And in a perfect world uh the same thing would happen uh at 10th in Jefferson where fire station one exists today. Uh keep in mind we are
likely or one building uh is assuming everything goes forward one building one lapidous building is going to be vacated. Uh it's a firehouse. It was built as a firehouse. How do you adaptively reuse that and the Southshore
Community Center uh will be uh coming down. So, uh, just wanted to throw that out there for perspective. >> Thank you, Mitch. Um, so I just want to say that I, you know, having followed this the the entire time, I just kind of
understand the complexity of the winds that have been impacting this that are way outside the purview of this board and that um, you know, this board has um a certain role to play, but it we also
have a um, a context that in which that we work in. And um you know, having voted for this to this the first time and then having voted to push for the um to make this uh building a um you know a
designated historic site uh having lived in one of Lapidus' buildings from this period and very close by and it was um yeah so I kind of see how these things work but I think as everybody here is trying to express we don't work in a
historic preservation context that's that's clear crystal clear and that has uh direct imperatives and so I um I hope that each of you vote for the vote the way you feel um taking into consideration all the contextes
especially rich contexts for Mitch a long time historic preservationist as well as the person who's responsible for the um for the the mural and um with that You know, I think that uh we should kind of draw this conversation to a
close. Uh okay, you too. Uh and I would draw this conversation to a close, but obviously my colleagues wish to continue it. So please, >> no, just I'd like to make a motion >> and back in 2022, I made the motion that we accept the condition of
appropriateness with conditions. And I would like to make the same motion again today. >> I'll second. Before we make the mo before we um vote in the motion, I just want to clarify I was asked to take a look at the conditions that were in place regarding the uh the mural. Those were the details regarding the final um installation as well as the lighting.
Both of those conditions have been incorporated into this order. And then did you want to Ray add another condition regarding have having a plaque regarding for the Apollo mural as well? >> Yes, we can add that >> and I'll support that. >> Okay. Actually,
um um Nick suggests we start with the demolition advisory recommendation first. So, does someone make a motion um for that? >> I'll make the motion. >> I'll second it. >> And I should we I'll do a roll call on
this. Um this is be for the advisory recommendation to the commission in support of the the demolition. >> And you need four votes. >> We need Well, it's just it's um >> it's advisory, so majority. Yes, >> exactly. So, um, this would be a recommendation to the commission in
support of the demolition. Um, Mr. Brereslin. >> Yes. >> Miss Kamargo. >> Okay. >> Miss Levelvel. >> Yes. >> Mr. Novik,
>> count me as no. >> Mr. Hollingworth, >> no. >> Mr. Stewart, >> yes. Miss Kamargo. >> No. >> So that's a tie. So it's um
so in in the event of a tie the um the motion fails. Um that would also that that generally we would we would consider that as as a negative. So that would be that would that would be transmitted to the city
commission as an unfavorable recommendation. Nick, >> it's just a recommendation. So, correct. >> It's just a recommendation which of course could be overridden. The question is will it cause delay?
It shouldn't. >> Well, I think the the um the certificate of appropriateness for demolition can only be approved by the city commission anyway. So, um, by transmitting a recommendation today, you put the
commission in a posture to vote, uh, up or down on the CFA for demolition. Um, just because you have recommended against issuance of the CFA for demolition, that
I don't think that bears on um on your vote on the certificate of appropriateness for the new construction. as unusual as that sounds because your role in reviewing demolition is only advisory. >> Yeah. >> So,
>> it's sort of like the optics of that. Okay. Let them have it and that'll be done relatively soon perhaps at the next at their next meeting. >> I don't know that it could be done at the next meeting because of the noticing requirements, but >> it could be done at the first available
city commission. >> I think that's uh that's that's great. I I believe at one point in time, wasn't it like slated for demolition and the trucks were like there ready to demolish it and then the commission stopped it? Um, so I mean I I I don't know how all
this works. >> I can't imagine them flip-flopping again, >> Lindsay. >> Regardless of how our vote went today, it would still have to go before the next available city commission meeting. Correct. Regardless. >> That's right. >> Yeah. Okay. So, I I don't know that I
vote yes or no or 50/50 makes a difference. >> Yeah, but they're never going to know 50/50. They're going to know no. >> Correct. >> We're going we're going to include the the vote of the board members and it's going to be three to three with the um outcome that an unfavorable recommendation for for demolition.
>> Okay. >> So, we'll go back now to the um the first motion regarding the CFA or the new construction. >> I'd make that motion. >> Well, I think um Mr. President already made the motion. Yeah. >> Right. So, and that will include the additional plaque regarding for the Apollo mural. Um,
>> and the conditions already drafted in the staff report. >> I'll second that. >> It was already second. It was already It was already done. Yes, sir. I apologize. >> Well, again, we'll go through um Mr. Brees made the motion. Seconded by Miss Levelvel. This would be in favor of the
CFA for um new construction. Um Mr. Novik, >> yes. >> Mr. Hollingworth, >> yes. Um, Miss Levelvel, >> yes. >> Mr. Brereslin, >> yes.
Miss Kamargo, >> yes. >> Mr. Stewart, >> yes. >> That motion passes unanimously. Six to zero. >> I'm sorry. Can you explain to me the rationale of approving a building to be built in a site where there is already an existing building that we did not
approve the demolition? they'll rub us down. >> And that and that's a good question. Um, under normal circumstances on privately owned property, that would not be possible. But because on property owned by the city, the HPB uh the HPB's role
is advisory with regard to demolition. Um, you know, your approval of the of the certificate of appropriateness for the new construction today is essentially conditioned on the city commission approving the CFA for for demolition.
>> Okay, that concludes the application for the fire station. >> Thank you. Is the applicant here for 1835 Michigan Avenue? This is HPB25-0670. >> Are you here for this application? So, as nobody's here for this
application for 1835 Michigan Avenue, this is the application for a seaw wall height variance. >> I believe it's in the best interest of the board just to continue the application um versus having a a discussion here today when the applicant's not present. >> So, I would recommend that the board um >> I'll move to continue it.
>> Second. >> Is there a second to continue? >> I'll I'll second by Mitch. This will be a continuation to the to the um March meeting date. March 17th. All in favor? >> I >> I >> So that's been continued to the March
17th meeting date. We have one discussion item on the agenda today. Let me just tee that up. So this is a discussion on a plot program for historically designated um single family homes and public buildings within the city. So um in our memo for
comparison purposes, the city of Coral Gables currently provides small ceramic plaque at no cost to owners of properties designated as historic landmarks. This approach of using a standard design and cost-effective material allows multiple plaques to be produced simultaneously and minimizing
cost for Miami Beach. This approach is contemplated to ensure efficiency efficiency and cost effectiveness and this would basically apply to the eligible properties which are a total of 31 single family homes and five individually designated historic public buildings. We provided a diagram or um
indication of the two proposed um designs. One is for historic homes and one is for historic structures. Um together the city anticipates that we could generate these 36 plaques at a cost of less than $1,000. So, this this discussion is just for recommendation to the city commission in support of this
program or not. And we're asking the board to um um vote in favorable of this plaque program. >> I'm sorry, Michael. Uh did you say each of these uh uh what do you call them?
>> 31 homes. >> Plaques are going to cost $1,000. >> No, the total the total is $1,000 >> for what? to apply to get one. >> No, the the total is $1,000 for their construction. >> Oh, okay. Okay. I I I understand. >> Be no cost to the homeowners.
>> All right. What about for buildings uh that are in historic districts and a property owners proud of their building and they should want such a plaque? Is that something >> that that >> Yeah, that that's a different process being the city the city commission historic preservation board has in the
past developed designs for um plaques and often times when an application comes before the board we we require you know historic plaques and they use that sort of standard. So that's separate apart from this this process. This is only for individually designated single family homes. All right. And these are homes that are designated outside of the
historic districts. >> So you want >> seems like there's there's no negative really regarding this. Um and the city commission is in support of this effort at minimal cost. >> And who will be uh applying or uh
installing these plaques? >> Be coordinated with Well, that's a good question. Who's installing? I think it's a matter of probably pro providing it to the homeowner. I think we indicated in our in our memo here require coordination between um um the parking
department's manufacturing facility as well as um let's see you would want this installed rather than just hand it over. or if you handed me this, I'd use it as a fancy. >> I'm not sure the logistic of who's going to be installing it or how it's going to
be installed and something that I think we're just weighing it in terms of the overall design and if the board um supports the program. It >> says that the material is ceramic, so it's like a tile kind of. >> No, this is this was um the the Coral
Gables program includes a ceramic plaque. And this one is supposed to be >> plastic >> probably since it's since it's produced by the city's um um parking department's manufacturing facility
>> then it would be metal just >> you could recommend that it be more >> so there is no material >> I don't know I don't know if the material specified it seems like it for the for the cost of less than $1,000 it seems like it it can't be much more than plastic for that >> it's certainly not going to be brass,
>> right? >> But if you want to suggest that it be made of a metallic material, more permanent nature >> at $27 a piece. >> That's I'm surprised they can't do that. >> So, what do you need from us, Michael?
>> Just a recommendation and support. >> I would like to see what one of these things look like. Uh should we continue this and maybe you bring us uh staff brings us one just to >> see and touch and understand it. >> Can you support a further u
investigation of the topic because I don't think anybody here is opposed >> to this. So it's not like everybody's going to say no, but it's just like you're not sure what you're what you're approving. So maybe more information. Maybe that's a you don't really continue. >> It's hard to say what we're recommending.
>> Yeah. But we'd like to know more. >> Okay. Do you want to continue this to the next month's meeting? >> Yeah. So, I mean, I I like the idea, but I mean, if I'd like to know how nicely or how tacky they may be, like the material. I'm sorry for my poor language, how thick they will be, if
they are embossed or not. I mean, so I think if you could have more detail be great. >> Yeah, I think to that end, if it's worth doing, it's worth doing, right? So, that I mean, that would be the question. the concept I like the idea of, but if it's if it's not something that they're going
to want to install in their home, then then why would we do it? >> Understood. Makes sense. >> Well, we'll put this on the agenda for next month's meeting. >> Good, good point. >> There's also if you also is a plastic thin plastic or is it a poured resin? I
think a poured resin properly treated you would not know is plastic. If you're going to mold a plastic cover, that would just I I think would be contrary to the whole idea of historic preservation. >> Remember, this is our sign parking uh
sign department. So, it's not going to be >> We can look to see what they can actually produce. >> You can do a resin one probably. Not much different. It's a mold. You just keep pouring them in, paint, but >> by touching it, you wouldn't know it was plastic. >> Yeah. But we don't have signs with raised lettering in this city. Yeah.
>> At least they're all consistent. There's no there's no specifics for the property or address. So, it's a it's a consistent design that's just repeated. >> It likely could be a a plastic disc with vinyl lettering, >> you know, fancy.
>> We'll come back more details on that. >> And then before we conclude, I would just want to say, you know, this is um John Stewart's last meeting. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait. He We need him next month because we're gonna have a vote or else we'll be in a >> I know. Well, um
>> the it's my understanding he could remain serving. >> No, the his term ended um last year. He did not wish to seek reappoint. He can he can um serve through um the month of February, >> right? It's up to 60 days. >> Okay. I thought it was March.
>> Yeah, unfortunately. >> It may have been at one time March. >> So, I just want to thank John for his dedication dedication and service for his many years um on the board here. >> Thank you very much. It's been an honor. and to serve with you all and I've learned so much every time we go through
these uh processes together and I wish you all the all the best untangling and uh keeping preservation alive untangling the the work. Thank you. >> Let's have a big hand for John. >> Yeah. Now, now you can all >> Thank you. And now you can all call me.
>> John, have you made recommendations for your successor? >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay, good. I was like, do we have somebody lined up? >> Yes. Yes, I have. I have. Yes. Yeah. Yes. >> So that will conclude the meeting and the next meeting is on March 17th, right?
>> When could I ask when is the Fountain Blue coming back? I couldn't understand the contract. >> No, no, fountain blue was set. >> So the deferral allows them to come back at a future date up to one year from today's date. >> So we have no idea when they'd be back. >> Correct. >> Okay. I thought I heard June and I didn't know how where that came >> has not been set yet.
>> Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. That that concludes the meeting.