Good evening. We're going to go ahead and call the meeting to order. >> Commission member Abadic, >> present. >> Commission member Bennett >> here. Commission member Fernandez has um
advised us that he will be logging in via Zoom later tonight. So, he is is absent. Commission member Matoss present. Commission member Ruano will not be able to join us due to a family emergency.
She is absent. Vice Chairman Inguanso will not be able to um participate in the meeting today due to uh work matters. He is absent. And Chairman Leoto >> present. >> Chairman, you have quorum.
>> Thank you very much. Uh next we're going to have if we could please rise for the moment of silence and I'm going to ask uh Commissioner Moss to please lead us as we are joined together at the town of Miami Lakes. We
ask for guidance and wisdom as we move forward in the next sections of our charter revision. I appreciate the associates and my peers that are here
and the town staff. Thank you. >> Thank you. And we remain standing if we can have commission if you could lead us in the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you very much. All right, going to the first item. Uh, order of business. Do we have any
deferrals, additions, or deletions to the agenda? I'd like to have an addition if I may, I'd like to add uh some discussion uh in reference to the uh events that occurred
in section 8 uh I'm sorry, uh number eight, section 4.8 eight of the minutes, the events that occurred there, and I would like to have some discussion. >> Okay. When you when you can you please elaborate what you mean by a discussion. >> Well, I I need to I want to go over the events that were that's in the minutes,
and I would like to discuss what what what occurred to this commission. >> Okay. Um where would you where would you call that or where are you asking that? Where are you making a motion to add that to? We can add that, you know,
during the minutes when we when we go ahead and approve the minutes. There's a couple of changes that need to be done or I can do it following the minutes. It doesn't matter. >> Okay. So, if it's going to be changes to the minutes, we just handle that under the approval of the minutes or are you asking that to be a separate line item for discussion? >> Separate line item for discussion. >> Okay. So, where would you want that?
Under old business. >> Yes. >> And what are you titling it? >> Let's discuss it um Robert's rules of order. >> Robert's rules of order. I thought you said it was a discussion of 8.2 uh or 4.8. eight. >> You want So you want to have a
discussion on Robert's rules of order, >> right? Number eight, 4.8 was the the section that we were discussing. >> Okay. Is there a second to his motion to add I would say seven I entitled Robert's rule of order. Is there a second? >> I'll I'll second it. But have we gotten
to eight though? >> We'll get to it. >> We'll second. All right. Any discussion on the item on on Okay. So all in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed say nay. No.
>> I don't know. Sorry. >> I'm fine to discuss it. >> Okay. All right. Madam clerk, you got that? All right. One. No. So section I Robert's rules of order.
It' be 7 I. And he asked for it to be entitled Robert's rules of order. All right. Do we have any other deferrals, additions, or deletions? All right. I'm going to be moving to uh remove items 7B through 7F
is my motion. And those are sections 2.3A, 2.5, 2.5 or 2.5 C2, 2.5 C4, 2.5 C6, and 2.5 C7. And the give it just a basic
understanding is the reason why is that we were going to follow up on these. These were proposals that we were going to get from the town attorneys and their discussions is uh we believe they're going to be pulling those together at a later time and so there's no need to really discuss them at this time as they're going to be drafting up some language. So that's the motion. Is there
a second? >> I'll second it. >> We have a second. Any discussion? All in favor say I. >> I. Any opposed? Seeing none. Motion passes. Those items are deleted from the agenda from this agenda.
All right. Any other items to be for deferrals, additions, or deletions? All right. Seeing none, uh we're finished with order of business, public comments. Madame Clerk, >> good evening and welcome to the meeting. As I always state, if you're here for
public comments, please just approach the podium, state your name and address for the record, and then we will address the public comments that are remote. >> Good evening. Go ahead. >> Good evening, committee. Good to see you
all. Happy to see, you know, to have quorum tonight. Alejandro Sanchez, 14531, Cedar Court, Miami Lake, Florida 33014. I'm up here tonight uh with regards to item 7H 2.1 section 2.1 of the town
council. Sometimes we make decisions um and in they say in everything in hindsight is 2020 and we don't see the ripple effect that it can have on other items. So bringing the council, mind you this is going to have no effect on me personally. I'm just speaking on behalf
of of the 34,000 residents of the town of Miami Lakes and the volunteers that work for the town of Miami Lakes. Bringing the council down from seven to five with a mayor and and uh four um council members has a ripple effect on planning and zoning and the other 11
committees that we have in the town. So now instead of just having two less seats, we're actually bringing it down by another 26 seats. Planning and zoning would have two less individuals. Veterans Committee would have two less. Planning public safety, so on and so forth. elderly affairs would actually
have six less individuals since we each get three appointees per um elected official. So, you know, I would highly recommend taking a look back at that item and making sure that that five is the way you want to go just because of the ripple effect it's going to have
down the line. Volunteerism is is the heartbeat of America. You know, we have one of the best militaries in the world because it's a volunteer military. It's not a draft. No one's mandated to join the military. And it's the reason, one of the main reasons why we have a strong military and to tell people that they can no longer volunteer when it costs
zero dollars to have them volunteer to bring forth events like Fourth of July, spring fling, Veterans Day parade among other events like the first ever uh Cars for Heroes show last year. You're bringing down that workforce that's already complimentary. So I ask you to
please review that once again to try to keep it at seven because of the ripple effect it's going to have. So, thank you for your time and I wish you nothing but the best of luck and uh you know and I know that you have the uh the mental capacity to to do the right thing and represent the 34,000 residents of the
town lakes. Thank you everybody. >> Thank you very much Mr. Council member. Next >> chairman. I don't see anyone else in council chambers for public comments and um looking at my TV and my laptop
screen. I don't see any participants, but I like to always just make sure that I stress that this meeting is live stream and that we do take public comments um via remote as we do for special calls and regular council
meetings. The information is in the website. The information is in the agenda. We're here all night and um if someone joins the meeting, the IT department will let us know and I will let you know if somebody needs to to
speak. But again, let the record reflect. Oh, I do see I'm sorry. I do see a participant. Welcome, Council Member Steven Hsburg. I just saw I just saw your name. There we go. And I see your hand, so I understand you want
to speak. it. Please allow council member Steven Hersburg to participate in remote public comments. >> Good evening everyone. Uh I already sent you guys all an email so feel free to always reach out to me if you have any comments on that. I honestly wasn't
going to speak within Councilman Sanchez did. Uh and a little bit on that that issue from 7 to 5. At the end of the day the the voters get to decide. You just have suggestions. Uh my issue is that to make sure that you guys focus on the suggestions that are most important and
that need problem solving and in the last few meetings you have been discussing those well and and I want to emphasize that your job is to do what you believe is best for the residents. Uh for example on that 7 to5 most of the things discussed was efficiency makes it
easier for staff. That's not your job. Your job is not to make things easier for staff. Your job is to do what you believe is best for the residents of the town of Miami Lakes, not just in the next few years, but for the next 10, 20, 50 years, because things that are added and voted in, if the voters want the
change, likely will be there forever. It's a lot harder to remove things from a charter than it is to add them. So, that's just the perspective to keep in mind. And, uh, for example, you'll see in the city of Miami, they're they're moving forward with a potential charter
revision to go from five to nine. So, I I just I don't see the the ask to lower representation. Of course, that's up to you. And then ultimately, the final say is up to the voters. Uh and then and then lastly on the on the primary election, I don't believe the primary election is a bad idea. Makes sense, but
it should be a true primary. The reason why we want to go away from the runoff is because people don't show up to runoffs. 10% 15% we know that. So, the primary makes sense, but don't allow a primary to be an end all election just because someone got 50%. My suggestion
is if if that's really the will of the commission and the ask, it should be more higher than 50 plus one, maybe 60%, like we do in the state with constitutional amendments. Uh but making a low turnout August election
potentially the primary the the final election doesn't make sense when the whole reason for going to a primary is to re is to avoid the low turnout runoff elections. So I I think we should just be consistent on the purpose of of that. So you guys doing good work good luck
tonight I'll watch and as always thank you. >> Thank you very much Councilman Hsburg. Uh, I just did want to note for the record that he had did he also submitted a note or an email that was shared with the entire commission. I've reviewed it
and I'm sure the other commissioners have also reviewed it in in advance or will be uh soon thereafter. Uh, any other members uh seeking to speak? Madam clerk? >> No, I I don't see any other participant online.
>> Great. Thank you very much. At this time, I'm closing public comments. And now we're moving to item six, approval of the minutes. Uh the minutes were shared with everyone with the commissioners. Is there a motion to approve? >> A chairman, before you proceed with the motion,
>> apologies. >> Yes. I want to bring to the attention of the board that on page 11 of the minutes section 9 which is titled section 3.9 town boards and agencies it was brought
to my attention that I did a little mistake that I need to correct because I stated that commission member Bennett made a motion and that the motion was seconded by commission member Bennett which we know that's not possible. So, I will go back to the recording and my
notes and change. I believe he did the motion. I believe he did from memory, but I'm going to double check who was the person, what commission member seconded the motion and I'll make the corrections and all I ask is if the approval of minutes could be approved
with that condition, I will show it to all of you. More than happy next time that I make the that we see each other as a group. >> Sure. Uh, quick Mr. town attorney is the should it be a defer should we defer the minutes instead instead of approving
them to the next meeting? >> I I I think that would be the appropriate action. Yes. >> Okay. All right. >> So, I'll make the motion to defer the minutes to the next meeting. >> And do we have a second on that motion? >> Second on to defer the minutes. All in is there any further discussion
>> on the motion? All in favor say I. I. >> Any oppose? Seeing none, motion passes. The minutes approvals will be deferred to the next meeting uh for that uh revision that correction vision. All right. Uh now moving on to old business uh
section uh 7A the town attorney report. Mr. Town attorney we're going to come back with a few items that you wanted to discuss. >> Thank you very much Mr. Chair. Um as as mentioned there were a few items uh that you had asked me to to look into. Um
primarily you had asked me with regards to uh the town clerk uh how many uh positions and how many cities rather uh have in their uh charter that the town clerk is uh beholden or appointed by um
the the council. Uh there are several and I mean I I can come back at a later date with a report. However, I think that that issue is somewhat moot given the uh action that this board took in in making the uh change that now the town
council I'm sorry that now the town clerk uh is appointed by the by the council. If you still want me to come back with a full uh report I I can do so at a later time. >> Sure. >> I know I'd like if you could is just to come back with a you know just a quick survey. It doesn't have to be a full
detailed report. Just giving us, you know, this is how many municipalities have it appointed by and the other just so that way we have it. So when we're finalizing uh the language and we moving forward with that with that provision is al it's also it's also on the record uh so that way the members of the community
that are watching or they may rewatch at a later at the at the next meeting when you present uh so they have that information available to them as well. >> Okay. Um uh with regards to to the issue of the prohibitions, I do have some suggested language, but I would ask and I'll tell you what the suggested
language is is going to be, but I I think it might be best if we have everyone here and the town manager also present when we discuss that. And I think that the the suggestion that I would have is that when it comes to interference with staff that it be very specific that it's interference with
staff under the supervision of the town manager. If you make that specification then anything else that is a employee that is under either the council or the town mayor there wouldn't be a a contradiction or conflict rather. >> Okay.
>> I I think that might be the easiest fix but I would ask if we could have that conversation when the town manager's president. >> Yeah. And town manager I think it I think that discussion was a very full conversation. I think it might also be good to have it with the other members of the commission that are unfortunately weren't able to attend today. >> Correct.
>> Yes. Madam clerk. I am noticing that Mr. Town Manager Peterman has his hand up. Welcome, sir, to the meeting. Sure. >> Just wanted to recognize you. >> So, go ahead and recommend the town manager to speak. >> I'm assuming you want to provide some information on that matter on that item.
>> No, I just like to see I like to I agree with the town attorney that we should uh the deputy town attorney that we he and I should have a conversation about this and then bring it back uh after we've looked at it. what he said verbally. I I agree. I I agree with that. If we're going to accept the town employees that
are under the purview of the mayor or the town council, then they should be exemptions to that prohibition item. >> All right. Thank you. So, I guess we'll we'll we'll anticipate that at the next uh commission meeting >> and then Yes. Yes, Mr. Chair. Sorry for
interrupting you. Uh the other issue too uh that you had asked was the research on with regards to spe special special qualification period and the special elections and also since that is an item that I believe that we should have the full board here and also the manager I'd ask if we can move that uh report for
next for the next meeting. >> All right. Thank you. I'm agreement you know that we should have both uh you know we'll have the full commission be best to have every so everybody can listen into it before we move forward. Commissioner Benner, you have comments? >> Yeah. Just just a reminder I won't be at that next meeting. you know, be as my
critics believe out to sea. >> So, uh I'll be on Yeah, the next meeting I won't be available. I'll try and tune in if my Wi-Fi on board the ship >> is adequate enough. I don't know if I'll be able to participate. I I'll know more. Okay. >> I'm almost tempted to bring my uh Starlink Mini with me, but we'll see.
So, I just want I I probably won't be here for the next meeting, but I will of course be for the following one. >> Okay. >> So, just to know for >> Yeah. We'll see what the We'll see who what we who we have in attendance of the last one. And if anything, we need to defer one more. I don't think these items are things that we need to critically handle right now, but I do feel that, you know, that we should have
uh the majority on a good majority of the commission present for the meeting. So, we'll take that into consideration. Thank you for letting us know. >> All right. Anything else on your town report um on your report? >> I I think that's uh the items that have been asked to to come back with and I I
don't believe that there's any that are missing. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> All right. Uh that concludes uh 7A. Uh now we're going to go to 7G. This was an item from Commissioner Bennett.
>> Yes. Okay. Obviously on 1.2 >> one second Commissioner Bennett, I just want to just to remind everyone is uh when we're presenting is I had said at the last meeting is please limit the discussion to about 3 minutes if we're going to have it at the beginning. But then let's move on to
have a motion that you're going to present for any type of language or anything going on. So let's try to limit that to about three minutes. >> It won't take me three minutes. U obviously I would prefer to have more more of the commission members present when I when we discuss this. I am
debating about deferring this um to the uh next meeting that we that I can attend. Um just I just want to put something quickly out just that there are various forms of government. The manager's position traditionally has you
know been an appointed position. Um uh the the managers basically just requires four votes to become manager and remain manager for all intents and purposes. I wanted to go ahead and bring the power back to the people and make it into an elected position with caveats. For
example, um if you're going to run for to be a judge, you have to be an attorney. That is a requirement. You can't run to be a judge without being an attorney. you know, you if you're going to go ahead and run to be a controller, you need to have some type of accounting capabilities or managial skills. So, we
can limit it. It's not a strong mayor no more than the the tax collector is a strong mayor in Miami date county. So, at this point, I just want to put that out there and I would like I guess I'd like to hold off on any further discussion until more of our
commissioners are here. So, at this point, I'm I guess I can pull the item. Okay. Well, you're welcome, as I've always stated is you're welcome to, you know, add items on future that are discussed. What I strongly ask is that, uh, for when you want to have it on, uh, obviously, you won't be at the next
meeting. Uh, but on the meeting that follows after that is please have a motion, uh, or some language that how you want that section 1.2 to be modified so that we can have it and share it with the clerk so that way the clerk has it available. she can share with us, but she can also have her deputy clerk
available so that way they can post it. So, we're reading it uh as we're reviewing it. >> Yeah, I had shared it with her at a previous email two meetings ago. It was it's in the public records. It wasn't a part of the package this time. >> Okay. >> But I did I did share it with her and all the specifications and every so I'll
bring it back and I'll redo it. >> Yeah. Just resent resend it so that way it's all at one time. What I really want is a good public debate with all with as many commissioners as we can. That's what I want to hear. This this is why I bring it and it's something to be t
thought of and to debate. Thank you. >> Absolutely. Not a problem. All right. Seeing nothing further on section 7G, uh move on to 7H 2.1 town council. Another item uh that is brought forward by Commissioner Bennett.
>> All righty. So I have am in agreement that we should keep um seven seats, six at large and at least and of course the mayor. Um any constitutional scholars here tonight? No. Okay. There's
something that is a precept in the law at least constitutional called the tyranny of the majority. Um it's usually characterized with uh two wolves and a lamb are on a committee and they're voting on what's to eat, what's for dinner. So the the the issue that we
have here is when you limit or reduce the number of um commission members, it allows a smaller majority to overrule and to basically minimize the remaining members of the commission. It's reducing
the power of the people and increasing the power of the leader. Well, we'll say traditionally it's been the mayor, but it doesn't have to be the mayor. It's it's whoever can get their their majority votes. So what I what I am concerned about is I think that our idea
of of reducing the number of seats is a serious problem um for this and future um commission uh well councils actually. So, what I would like to do is make a motion to once again I wish more commissioners were
here because but my motion and I'll make it again if I have to is that we rescend the section that uh that that changed the seven seats to a five seat council. And that's that's basically my motion at
this time. I'll bring it back if I have to when we have more commission members. >> Okay. Is is there a second to the motion? >> I mean I'll second it. Okay. All right. And uh open up for discussion. So So Commissioner Member Bod, sorry.
>> Before he moves though, I I do have a point of of parliamentary inquiry. Well, >> on the parliament, but for the clerk's inquiry. Um according to the rules, the only person that can bring up a motion is the one that's on the prevailing side. That's al both in Robert's rules
and in our rules of order. So I How did Dr. Bennett vote on that matter? We have to look at the minutes for that. >> Yeah. Because if not, he can't bring the mo motion. >> I don't I >> That was in the That was the January 26th meeting.
>> If if you give us a minute if then proper. If not, then it's not not proper. >> Yeah, I understand. All right. I'm seeing it >> from memory. From memory, Dr. Bennett, it you were not in the prevailing side.
If that is the motion that Attorney Morales Castillas has. >> Yeah. I'm I'm looking at the minutes right now. >> Yes. And I see here that the town clerk called the role. This is going from the minutes of that meeting. And it says the town clerk called the role on the main
motion as amended. And the motion passed 4 to3. Commission member Abad, Commission Member Bennett, and Commission Member Ruano voted in opposition. And if someone can correct me if I'm wrong. >> So the the motion could only be brought by someone that was on the prevailing
side. >> Okay. To Oh. to repeal a prior motion. That was one. Correct. >> Correct. >> All right. My apologies. So then we then we simply withdraw the motion. Is the motion automatically withdrawn or do we have to take any
process since he called the motion and was seconded? >> Unless someone that's on the prevailing side wants to bring the motion based on his request, then the motion I think would die. >> Okay. All right. >> That's what the rules say. Okay. Then we
will comply with the rules. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Town attorney. All right. Is there the motion has died uh as there as based on the point of clarification from the town attorney? Um is there any other motions or any other
discussions, Mr. Commissioner Bennett? >> Not at this time. That's we'll we'll see what happens, but that's it. Yeah. >> Right. All right. If nothing further on 7H, we're now going to move to 7 I. Uh, Commissioner Bennett, you have for
Robert's rules of order. You wanted to have a discussion? >> Yes, please. Uh, just quickly, Robert's rules of order basically specifies, you know, how uh, public comments are to be treated and people that are not a member of this commission or from the town
staff. In order for there to be public comm uh public comments reopened, there must be a motion, a second, and then basically people voting that we reopen public comments. That is not what occurred because if an individual, any individual that is allowed to address
without basically being opened up with public comments, there's no room for a rebuttal. Nobody can go ahead and rebut what was said. And that's a serious violation under Robert's rules of order that you need to to reopen public comments. You need to have a motion, a
second, and a vote. And if they're open, then the public may speak again. Okay? The mayor is not a member of this commission. He does not have any standing here. He is a basically a private citizen. And we had some debate about that. And that's how I understand
how Robert's rules work. Now, in addition, one final thing I did ask for clarification from our town attorney. They neither cited any type of case law or Florida statutes or anything stating anything other than what Robert's rule says. Okay. So, at this point now, um
I'm willing to go ahead and accept an acknowledgement that that is the proper procedure to reopen public comments if you choose to do so. That's my that's it. >> So, Mr. Mr. Town attorney, just to I'm going to make some comments first is I'm
not sure what you're referring to. Public comments were not reopened at any point of time. If you're referring to the time when I invited the uh accepted the invitation of the mayor to speak before the commission, that was not reopening of public comments. I made
that very clear at that meeting. Um you may disagree with it, but at no point did I say I was reopening public comment. Uh nor did I seek that motion uh to reopen public comment. However, my understanding has been, and I believe the town attorney had clarified, and I'm going to ask him to again to if he's
reassessed it and made that clarification, and correct me if I was incorrect at that time, is that I as the chair have the ability to invite members uh regardless of whether they are the town, the the mayor and member of the council or anyone else uh to come speak
on an item. And that's a prerogative of the chair is my understanding has always been of under Robert's rules of orders and that's what I had done in that instance and uh you know is if I'm need to be corrected I need to be corrected moreover as I had stated at the last
meeting and as I stated in meetings prior including our first meeting is that I will always entertain u hearing from not only the mayor but any member of the council that wishes to speak on the on the item because of their knowledge of of operational um
continuity of of how it our actions will affect. And it's not to for them to vote on any items, but using their special expertise that they have as members of the council and as as the mayor where they can provide us the opportunity to
have additional information that may be helpful. I find this to be in line with also having getting advice during these meetings from the town attorney, the town clerk, and the town manager. None of them are a part of this commission either, but yet we still hear from them
in providing this information and they're invited to be part of this to be able to discuss it with us. So, Mr. Town attorney, >> I I'd like to rebut that. >> Hold on one second. I've asked the town attorney and then we can go back to you. It is common in our government practice
uh with whether it's any type of board or whether it's the council uh that when an item specific requires the input or it's desirable to have the input of someone who is either uh a subject matter expert or someone who is uh is
going to be impacted by the certain motion to have them speak and it is the prerogative of the chair to allow them to speak at that time. Uh the mayor uh is not a a private person and while he is not a member of this board in no way, shape or form, uh he is a person that is
directly impacted by the charter and he is a subject matter expert to some degree some degree on the item given that he is the mayor of this town and that is his governing document of which he has sworn uh to to abide by and he has to follow. Um, so I think the fact
that you you provided the input from them and from the council persons who are directly impacted uh by the charter uh is is not a violation. That's not a public comment. >> Thank you, Commissioner Bennett. >> And it's exactly why it's a problem. It's undue influence over members of
this commission from someone who is not a member of the commission applying their own opinion to this commission without rebuttal from the public. I'm sorry. you're I believe you are wrong and if I have to I will go to the next step to prove that you are wrong Mr. Attorney.
>> Yeah. A may may I answer that? >> Sure. >> The public has no input here other than a meaningful opportunity to provide their opinion prior to a decision being made by the board. That's it. That is what Florida statute says specifically.
And they do not need to be provided an opportunity at every single meeting just prior to you making a vote. and you really haven't made an ultimate vote. So, I I think the fact that you're providing uh the time for each of the public to make their comment on on any item is is sufficient. Furthermore, I I'
I'd also say uh that it is proper and it is in our rules of of procedure for our committee rules and and our council that those uh time frames be limited to three minutes. It's it's if it is placed in a uh particular rules as a government, we
have the ability to regulate the time, place, and manner as to those those public comments. Uh so that's that's not a violation. >> Thank you. And I'd also like to say uh Commissioner Bennett that you're incorrect in in that the public doesn't have the opportunity because the public has the opportunity to come speak today.
they have the come you have the opportunity to submit to appear in person to appear via Zoom or to even submit comments that could be shared with everybody on those on those items and I do not think that it causes undue influence onto this commission because I I don't believe that any of the
commission members that sit here felt that they had to go with whatever the mayor had said or what he suggested or any opinion that he gives or any other individuals that we come that come before us that pro provide us some subject matter type of uh expertise such as the town manager, the town attorney,
the clerk, or whom whomever else, they all will have the opportunity at every public comment to come and speak. If they disagreed with what the what the with what the mayor has to say or any other individual that is invited to speak, they will have that opportunity
respectfully. The idea that a person can influence the commission in any way by speaking to it whether it's just by title as you've already indicated that he holds a title and the influence that comes with that
title to this commission in any way addressing this commission okay is constitutes undue influence. I'm sorry that you don't disagree but that's a matter of debate I guess. Um, I once again disagree. All you had to do, I'm sorry, I is just open it for public
comments and he could have spoke and I would have been no objection whatsoever. I think the procedures were not followed. All right. Thank you. Any other further discussion on this item? All right. Seeing none, we're going to be closing out on 7 I. Now, we're going
to move to section 8 items for discussion or action. We're going to start with article 8A elections article 5 and starting with number one section 5.1 elections and I'm going to ask uh as I
understand is manager Peterman will be providing uh discussion on proposed language for section 5.1. Manager Peterman you're recognized. >> Yes. I'm only dealing with one screen here so
it's a little more difficult for me. Um, all right. This is an item that uh council member JC Fernandez asked me to present on his behalf since he was going to be uh uh not available tonight. So,
this is essentially in item 5.1 small letter C the added language. Do we have uh Gina I can't see the screen. Do do we have the um the item on the on the board on the Zoom?
>> It's up. >> Yes. Yes. Okay. So, and manager Peter M. I'm sorry to interrupt. So, yeah, I see that we have A, B, and C. So, we'll get back to A and B in just a second just in case anybody has any discussion items, but we'll start go ahead with 5.1 C.
We'll take them uh sub item by each. So, if we'll start with 5.1 C, manager Peterman. >> Yes. And this is in a in a sense a way of getting uh away from the runoff election that we have typically that has
a low voter turnout. And this is uh transitioning our system to be in line with the county elections that have with a slight twist. And I'll tell you what the twist is to have a primary. So, in
other words, if we have three or more candidates qualify uh during our qualifying period in the summer in June or July, whenever we have it, then there would be a primary election that would be held in conjunction with the county and state primaries that are done in
August. >> I believe you meant two or more, not three or more. Is that correct? >> No, if there's only two, we don't need the primary. And there's >> Oh, my apologies. >> Right. No worries. No worries. It's it's a it it needs to be talked through and
make sure that we got it right. So, if there's three or more, then they would go to a primary election that would be held in August. The top two vote getters, if nobody gets 50%, the top two vote getters from an election that has three or more people
qualify, they would go to a runoff at the November general election. If there's only two people that qualify for a any specific seat, then they would only go directly to the general election
in November. And obviously, this is to enhance the amount of people that make a final decision on uh on a seat. And that's what the item in 5.1 small letter
C hopes to dictate. and and and actually also in small letter D, it's the more language that goes towards that same point for that same objective. >> All right. Thank you. Um, go ahead.
>> I'll get to it when we get further down in the uh in the article because there there's another comment about 5.1 uh age. >> Okay. All right. Um given that presentation uh by manager Peterman as
uh Councilman Fernandez is unable to attend today. Uh do we have a motion? >> So I'll make the motion >> here. There's not one on the table. We'll make a motion. >> So you know obviously to discuss this item.
>> Yes. You want you make a motion to amend. It'd be the the motion would be to amend the language. Actually, I just want to discuss it if anybody I don't know if I want to amend it, but >> I I'll I'll make let's let's cl I'm going to go ahead. I'm going to make the motion to add the language as noted in
the draft, which is if more than two candidates qualify in any race for mayor or council member, a primary election shall be held to coincide with the date of the primary election of countywide elections. Period. If only two
candidates qualify or in the event that no candidate obtains 50% plus one more vote in a primary election, the top two candidates receiving the most votes in the primary shall move on to the general
election period. Further, there is a deletion of the last two sentences of that section. The sections to be the sentences to be deleted is a runoff election shall be held 21 calendar days after the general election period. The
council shall hold no meetings between the general election and the swearing in of those newly elected or reelected council members except in the case of an emergency affecting life, health, property, or the public peace. And that is the motion. Is there a second?
>> Second for discussion. >> We have a second for discussion. All right, we'll open it up for discussion. All right. So, so before before I before I start the discussion on this, I just want to put something on the record. So, I've noticed that in two of our five meetings, these suggestions come. I I
know at the beginning we spoke that the town will be making some suggestions. I I'm sort of confused as to if this is Councilman Fernandez's suggestions, the town council suggestion, the the town staff's suggestion, but but my concern
is that this is the second time that it comes up and we're not really discussing the charter. We're discussing really the changes that Commissioner Fernand Councilman Fernandez is bringing up. So, that's just a concern that I have. But, I will say this about that. I I do think we want the most amount of voters to
come out and vote. Having a primary in August, I don't think would bring a lot of people out to vote. I I'd be more comfortable with the actual November election. And if you need to do a runoff, there's a lot of cities, a lot of municipalities that have runoffs. So, do it that way. That way, at the very
least, you get the the largest amount of voters to come out to vote to choose the person they want. I mean, there's multiple of us who have ran before. I remember all that work and 2,000 people came out to vote. I mean, it's really, you know, disheartening for me. It was
for me, but I'm sure for anybody else who's ran. So, I don't agree with switching it to an August election. I I think we should keep our November election. Um, and if possible, two weeks later, 3 weeks later, however the county decides
to do it, then we do a runoff election. >> Okay. Sure. So, let me address I'll I'll address briefly and then I'll ask uh manager Peterman to chime in in case I don't capture it completely. My understanding is these presentations are being or these items are being uh that at least specifically like this or that
has been presented by uh Councilman Fernandez. My understanding is that's what is being presented through town staff. It's not necessarily the council. the council has their ability to otherwise provide their own items that they would like to add that goes outside of this comm out of this body and so but
my understanding is that uh manager Peterman together with staff have worked with uh Councilman Fernandez and he presents it as he's the non- voting member of this commission >> but that's my that's my understanding. >> So he's representing town staff that's his role within the commission.
>> Well I don't know if he's representing town staff but he's making the presentations. It was the decision. My understanding and I'll ask manager Peterman to explain it is that uh he had asked or they had coordinated and that councilman Fernandez would be the one to
present those items rather than manager Peterman other than obviously Tay as councilman Fernandez is unable to attend. >> Mr. Chair, >> so yes, >> can I say something? So that that was something that we debated a little you all as as a body. Traditionally, the
town manager has not participated in actually being part of every single meeting. He participates from the audience. That's traditionally the way that you know this has been done. But as a body, you all decided that you felt that it was important to have the town manager every single one of these
meetings to discuss the items, present the items, and give us feedback, which is very important. As as I previously mentioned, the town manager together with the town mayor and the town uh council are the ones that will be most directly impacted by by any of these changes. Personally, of course, the
entire town is is as well. It's it's our Bible. This is our this is our our constitution. That that being said, uh all of you have equally the same right that the manager just had to present your items and say what you want to be corrected for consideration. town
manager can't vote on the item, but if he wants to present it, hey, as a suggestion, it's it's perfectly o okay. Uh because that's that's what you've decided. You want his his input and you can have any input from anyone that you desire. That that's okay. Uh the the one thing I do want to make a mention that
that the chair just uh stated and to address your point u commissioner about is that the council independent of this board can suggest at any point in time to place an item on the ballot to make a charter change. That's something that they don't need us for. They can do that
independently. So, if they wanted to right now and have a meeting next week and put a new business item that they wanted to add something in the charter, that's fine. They can do that. I mean, I mean, again, and I just don't want to spend too much time on it. I mean, my my thing was that I'm seeing some of the things that he suggested in
the past, like for example, I know it was the suggestion was to come from cut from 7 to 5, right? the council members and that was one of those recommendations. But yet I've seen two sitting council members come up and state we should have kept it at seven. So I don't know if there's a disconnect
in communication but if he's acting on behalf of the town staff then I understand >> he he can't act I'm sorry no please go Mr. Sorry, Mr. Chair. He can't act on behalf of the council. I mean, unless the council altogether unanimously vote and say, "Hey, town manager, say this."
He can't do that because again, they all have to act in the sunshine and they all have to make decisions in the sunshine. They can't, you know, act act independently. He's here because he is the CEO of of the town and you have all asked them to participate in these these proceedings. >> Yeah, Mr. Chair,
>> give me one second. And uh and also as um Commissioner Abad, I also did want to say is to your point is if the commission does feel strongly that they want to keep it that they'd want to have it kept to five, you know, I believe they even have the prerogative to do a counter to keep it at the 7 to five at
at at seven members. they can book put it and I believe as we'll as we see in the in later on in the in the charter one of the items that we're reviewing in the event that there's two conflicting charter amendments the one that wins is the one that gets the higher vote. So
the town could come back and say, "Hey, look, you know, there's two there's two items, but you know what? Uh whether one's going to be to move it down to five and the seven is no, we're going to keep it at seven." And that one prevails. That one has 80% 90% of the vote whereas versus the other one that's an independent one only comes in at 60%.
The 90% would run. That's the way I read the the subsequent charter provisions. Commissioner Bennett, >> um through the chair to our town attorney. So once again, it was in the charter that they can um suggest charter amendments. How many total questions can
we have on the ballot from that are allowed? >> I can double check for you, but I I don't believe that there is a set limit. There's a set format as far as the wording of them. So the actual and that's why we're going through the entire chart and then we're going to
come back with the questions because the questions are limited to to words. I believe it's 70 words or or less. >> Okay. So there's a limit on words but not number of amendments. >> No. >> Okay. So I mean at least that's what you think. And obviously um in a hypothetical once again if the um
commission our our council wanted to push all of the questions that are important way down the ballot. How many charter amendments can they suggest to be a part of the um >> I don't believe there's a limit. They can ask whatever they they like. I I'm
once again unfortunately I game these things out and this is what in my mind what I see but okay uh if I may a question to is Mr. Peterman still with us? >> Yes I believe man Peterman still >> yeah Mr. Pet just out of curiosity maybe you understand this more than I do what
what is what do you think the intent of this was? Was this to save money so we don't have to have special election? Was it to try and get more voter turnout? Was it um what do you what the change in language? What the what impact do you anticipate? >> Yeah, I'll take the opportunity to
answer that, but also I want to just address real quick uh commissioner Abad's concern. And these items that that that are being uh presented are items that council member JC Fernandez
as being part of this commission while not being having a vote is part of the debate. Uh he worked on these. He went, we went over all of these with him. He's the one that is propering these. These are council member JC Fernandez's item
that we helped him find tune and helped him with the language. And so from staff, these are not staff's uh proposals. These are J uh council member JC Fernandez's proposals that we helped him uh massage and fine-tune with regard
to language and so forth. So, I believe, not I believe, I think that I know that Council Member Fernandez is intent with this is that there will be more people participating in the August primary if
one is necessary because the primary in August will also have county and state races as compared to a runoff that may happen in and around the 21 days following the first uh Tuesday of November, which
always falls in and around uh Thanksgiving, he believes that the turnout will be much greater in an August primary than a runoff that happens in in late November. So, it is strictly it's not a matter of
uh limiting cost. It is to enhance and improve voter turnout in those races when three or more people uh qualify for an election. >> Hold on. Let me let me also I wanted to add chime in an additional because this
was also an item that I was thinking about and in taking consideration especially based on our conversation that we had at the last meeting uh that it came in about uh the timing of the elections. Um you know it I also believe that you know in line
with what manager Peterman had said that this had I think this has two fronts. One is the turnaround and I I also believe that you'll have a much better turnout when you have at the primary and the general election the way that it's set out here. Uh rather than waiting for
the general election and then waiting to do our own runoff election. uh because you're going to just get overall like as as he said it's not only the holidays but statistically every single runoff that you do on an off cycle from a major election just doesn't get the attention
uh publicly and you're going to get a much less voter turnout. uh secondarily that I believe it obviously has the intrinsic aspect of saving costs to the extent that you now you're coinciding an election with the primary election that the county is already
doing and you don't you're not assuming additional funds that you would you're already running anyways in matters of polling places in in printing out ballots sending out information it's going on with that time and then moving over to the regular election uh of uh
during in November And so that's why, you know, I was also considering to have some a similar type of edits and I'm glad that JC Fernandez had proposed it, worked with town council or with with the town staff on that on u on shaping this type of language. >> Sorry. Go ahead, Commissioner Bennett.
>> Thank you for So I can reclaim the floor. I appreciate that. A question to the manager. Do these elections tend to be the gubanatorial elections on these off cycles? I mean there's the obviously the main election for president but isn't the gubanatorial election is around in August also?
>> Well the the gubanatorial election and the presidential elections uh only happen in November but it's it's on those midterm elections or presidential elections. So it's every two years it's it's on the even years that our elections will be had. So, but it is the
uh election the primary elections for county races and state races and it's something that's quantifiable. I'm sure that if you wanted to kind of put a pin in this one and have ask the town clerk to come back next time with statistics. It's very quantifiable. It's not a
guess. we can look and see how many uh ballots were cast in Miami Lakes for the August county and state elections versus the the most recent one which was even a mayor's race which would actually probably draw more than if it were a
runoff for a town council election if she can look and see what how many votes were cast in August versus the mayor's runoff election in late November. And it it's it's very quantifiable and it's it's you
know the numbers will be stark. I believe that there will be a lot more ballots cast in August than there were for the runoff for the mayor's election in late November. >> Okay. Thank you. So um yeah, basically
what I'm what I'm thinking about obvious I my theme has always been we want as many people to be involved with our town with what goes on here and we want to engage as many not only electors but just the people of the town to come and basically you know forward their will to
the to the council. Um, I'm going to make an amendment to table this item until such time as the clerk can provide us some statistical statistical analysis of the um of the two rates just so I can get some type of, you know, uh, you know, actual hard evidence or hard
information before we can vote on this. That's my motion. >> Okay. Is there a second to the motion? >> So, you know what? I do want to second it, but I also wanted to add Okay, >> you started just at the statistics. >> Well, hold on. So, you're seconding the motion, correct? Okay. So, make sure the clerk got that. Okay. Now we'll open it for discussion on tableing.
>> So as we table it and just as he wants his stats I would like to know what other municipalities in our county does. I mean we've compared that before right and items have come up. What do other m municipalities do? Um so I would like to know if they do have a primary just for a regular council race because I I mean
I might be wrong but I don't recall seeing many of those. >> Okay. >> It was my intent that that type of information be provided. In other words, not just numbers, but how is everybody else doing? Just something so we can have an idea of what has been done
before. So maybe we don't have to reinvent the wheel. So and that way we can by an informed judgment decide on this. Thank you. >> Okay. Is there any other discussion on and we're on the motion to table the matter to the next meeting is seeing no
further discussion. All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Seeing none. Motion passes and we're going to table the motion. Madame Clerk, to the next meeting. Please make sure that it's on the agenda. Okay. Um, going back, I know we skipped
over section 5.1A. Uh, any anyone have any motions or any considerations for 5.1A? Okay, we're going to go now to 5.1B, nonpartisan elections. Any discussions or modifications?
All right. So, getting back on track now, we're going to go back to item 5.1D. Um, there's we'll have an initial discussion. Uh, if you can have the presentation, manager Peterman, >> I think this is in regard. This is the
general election. So this is in the same it was language that was necessary to accomplish the same thing we just uh spoke about. >> Okay. So I think given our conversations
>> manager Peter Mo I was going to ask is given the tableabling of the initial motion which I think would drive any of the discussions >> uh in 5.1 at least based on your proposals of D E as well and is in H. Uh do you want I I
think it might be best to just table those discussions to the next meeting. Well, if if if whoever's running the if you scroll down to H, I think H may be a little different. It may be standalone item. This was the because of the before
we used to have uh the legislators when they got elected, they would take office uh the day following the runoff election or the day following the general election if there was no runoff. And
this here, this proposal here is also in line with what happens at the county level. And uh I believe that this is uh more in line. So there would be a transition period and I know that there
are several that Miami date county does it like this. I'm almost sure the state offices do it like this. I'm almost sure that city of Hyia just recently went to a change similar to this where they even though the election happens in November,
the transition to the next uh office or office holder takes place in early January. And that's what this is uh seeking to accomplish. And really it doesn't have anything to do it's it's kind of sort of impacted by the other
items in this uh article. Uh but it's it really can be considered as a standalone item. >> Thank you, manager Peterman. So you're fine with we're going to defer to your discussions on D& and now we've had your presentations on H. Is there a motion
with regards to item H? I'll make the motion. Uh I see that and I understand what you're saying. So I'm going to make the motion to modify the language in H to read uh the term of office of all elected
officials will commence adding language at 12 noon with 12 p.m. in parenthesis. Continuing on on the striking day, adding second Tuesday of the January. Continuing on following the striking day
of the and then general ele continuing on general election and then striking the remaining of the sentence. Is there a second? >> We have a second. All right. Open for discussion. >> Okay. So, I'm sorry, Commissioner Bennett. >> Yeah. Is this this is basically just clerical to make it more convenient? I
mean, basically they're going to take office the day after the election if they win. Is is that's essential. This nothing's really changing, is it? >> No. The way I read this and I think based on uh the discussion from or the explanation from manager Peterman is that this will the term of office will
commence at noon on the second day of January, not right after the election. So they have this transition period and it's similar. I I recall I saw this with regards to city of Halia when the mayor he had his transition period. They have their installation and their swearing in happens at the beginning of January. I'm
not sure what they that the other terms are, but this one is proposed for soction. >> Hold on one second. And this one's proposed for the second Tuesday of January following the general general election. And I think that also um you know takes care of you know giving that ability so that way everybody's not
rushing immediately uh to uh following an election to get their stuff together in that December time period. Um and you know that's why I believe you know this is this would be a good change. >> Okay. So the the let me just finish. So the we'll say the defeated council
member will not be able to vote on anything in December. Am I correct in that or does he still hold the power to vote even though he lost? >> I believe they they would still retain because they still have office in their town attorney. >> Correct. >> They would still retain office. They'd be lame ducks again like you said
happens in higher in Miami. So basically comes a lame a lame duck council member essentially. He's not going to be elected and but he's still still has the powers of the office. >> Chairman tellbody anything but manager Peterman.
>> Yeah. December is the one month of the year that we do not have scheduled a regular council meeting. We have council meetings January through November and then typically December there's no scheduled regular council meeting >> and calls professional call. I'm sorry.
Yeah, Commissioner B. >> No, no, I think I think that was the gist of what I wanted to say. So, but but by default, we're extending the current council members term by six weeks or two months, right? And I know we don't have meetings in December, but
there is the scenario where we would have council meeting if there's an emergency or something. So, again, the question is who would take that seat? Who would take that vote? >> My understanding, I think what the town attorney is saying. We're really extending whoever is now sitting on the council the term for by two months,
right? >> Okay. >> Yeah. A month and a half. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> The first time >> the first time that whenever this goes into effect, >> right? So let let's take Halia for example. Hleia uh Mayor Calvo won uh in
November. Yet you know uh Mayor Jackie Roves continued running the the the city until he took office in January. It's it's a similar proposal. >> Yes. And I believe other municipalities do the same exact thing. It's it's it's not new. Um but I think this just gives us more in line with what other
municipalities do and gets us to start at that January year rather than having a start date back in November. Any further discussion? All right. I'm going to call the vote. All in favor say I. I. >> I. Any opposed? >> No. All right. It's 3 to one. Madam
clerk. Motion passes. All right, that concludes anything else. I know we skipped over. Did anyone else have any other discussions on DF or G? Commissioner
Banner. Just checking on we're at 5.1 still and since we hadn't gone into detail if you had any motions on D E F or G and seeing none. All right. So we'll we
finished off with article 5.1. Uh next we'll go to article or section 5.2 initiative and referendum. Is there any proposals for 5.2 or motions or discussions? >> I'd like to make a proposal mostly for discussion, but um I believe and I'm
trying to that the referendums for Dave County is 4% of the electorate, but we are our um charter says 10%. Am I correct? Okay. Well, I'm going to split the baby then. I'm going to say 7%. So, I'd like to make a motion to change it
to 7% from 10% uh the number of electors necessary for uh initi uh initiatives. >> Okay. Do we have a second on that item? I I'll take for discussion. >> Second for discussion. Okay. You want to continue with your disc your >> Yes, sir. So,
>> sure about I mean I thought a lot about this within the last month. I knew this was this was coming up. Um and initially I I I was thinking the similar way you were thinking Dr. Bennett. Uh, but thinking about it, the truth is our town
has what, 18 20,000 borders. I mean, think about it, you know, 7% is what, 1,200 residents. I I think that number is way too small. I mean, I'm I'm comfortable with the 10% that it's at. And I don't really think we should be
touching that at this point. >> Okay. Mr. Chair, may I? >> Sure. Continue on. So the the uh answer to uh Commissioner Abad is I agree with him. Um one of the things that I always like I always like looking at our
history and to see you know how things were done. And in the once again the declaration of the independence is not a governing document but it's something to be quoted and it says basically that when government becomes destructive of protecting natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness it
is the right of the duty of the people to alter abolish and institute new government. But there is a correlary to that and it says prudence indeed will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light or transient causes and
accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind is more deposed to suffer while evils are sufferable than the right of themselves to abolishing the forms of which they are accustomed. I wanted to bring this for discussion. I personally believe that the 10% is
adequate but I wanted to understand I wanted everyone to understand why I decided not to do this. It's important that um there is a certain amount of insulation for our elected officials when they make controversial decisions. They should get they should have some
insulation that so that a minority of people could bring um any type of recall initiative. It I think I believe there's 1,600 electors. So, we're looking at 1,600 signatures. If an initiative can't get 1,600 of 33, well, 16,000.
It really it's it's a minority vote and it shouldn't be uh considered of any significance. 10% I believe is adequate. So, at this point now, I would like to withdraw my uh motion. >> Okay. Are you making a motion to withdraw your motion? >> Yes, I am.
>> I I wanted it I Mr. Comm Mr. Chairman, I wanted this to be discussed. This is something I wanted >> instead of withdrawing motion. We'll just vote on the motion. >> Okay, that's fine. Even better. >> Okay. Okay. So, is there any further discussion on the motion?
>> All right. All in favor say I. >> Seeing none. All All in all against >> No. >> No. No. >> No. None. Motion dies. >> It's okay. >> Okay. Um now so
let's go section by section 5.2 A one or two is there any discussion items or any motions >> at this time >> 5.2B commencement of proceedings. I know 5.2C is what we were just on. Is there any on either sub 1 2 3 or four?
Right. Seeing none on section D, procedure for filing one or two. Uh, yes, if I may. Um, I just need a definition of sufficient in this case. Um, initiative petition filed within five
business days. uh file the town clerk complete a certificate as to the sufficiency of the um uh procedure for filing. What is considered sufficient is just counting names on the and and verifying that they're electors. What is sufficient? What is the definition of
sufficient in this context? >> Are you proposing a definition? >> Not at this time. I'd like to hear what what we what it was. I don't know if there >> and I made this up 10 years ago when we when we did this 10 years ago the the idea of sufficiency was based on just
being verified electors but you know when I read this again and I don't know if if it's subject to the town clerk to determine if they're sufficient or is it just her job is just to count the number of electors that signed the um the the petition.
>> That's that's my question. In other words, should we have something for for discussion? Should we have something in here defining what sufficiency is? That's the only thing that stood out to me. >> Mr. Town attorney. >> So, so I would say that I'm going to make a general an assumption here. The
the clerk is not only the, you know, holder of all documents and the town clerk, but she's also the election official for the for the town. as election official she has a responsibility to qualify uh the candidates and also uh when the petition
is filed of this nature to certify the petition and its sufficiency okay so she has to abide by election law that's statutory so I can go back and and provide you what that sufficiency means my gut tells me based on the fact that
she has to file a certificate that this is something that is required by state statute so I can get back us through what that means. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> And further, Mr. Town attorney, I'm again, this is also my assumption. I'm assuming since there is a certificate, that certificate probably has
assumptions that the town clerk has to certify and determining as to whether it's sufficient and I think that might set out the terms and conditions. So, if we could look at that and bring it back for the next item, Madame Clerk, if we can have that also added to the agenda as an old business item for the next
meeting. Any further discussion on section D one? Yes. Yeah. Anything else on 12? Uh, okay. Now we're going to E one, two, or three. Actions
on petitions. Any discussions? or any items for motions to modify. All right, seeing none on E. Now going to F1 and two, results of the election. Seeing none, we'll move forward. Now
going to uh article six, charter amendments. We'll start off with 61 6.1A. Is there any discussions or is there any amendments? >> Just a moment, Mr. Chair. I pulled the section 6.03 in the home room charter. I
just It's in my stack. If I can have just a moment. >> No, he he's I think he said he's pulling the 6.03. It's a reference that's in 6.1A. It's the the county's home room charter. >> Hello.
Okay. If I if I may, first the home room 6.03 03 municipal charters uh a um excerpts from u provided by section 6.04 04 ba basically the the one thing that stood out in my mind is a governing body shall have 120 days after adopting a resolution or after certification of a
petition of 10% of the qualified electors of the municipality uh draft or have a drafted by a method determined by municipal ordinance or proposed charter amendment revocation abolition uh which shall be submitted to the electors of
the of the uh municipalities. Um, I interpret that I'm interpreting that that the if there is a initiative that there's 120 days before the the town has to adopt a resolution on it. I I'm confused as part of the section how
how the home rule charter affected that section even though it was cited there. And I looked at it when I looked it up. I don't remember, I'm sorry to say, from 10 years ago why we cited that section. It might have been just grandfathered in from the previous.
So what I'm proposing according amended section 6.03 I I I believe that this allows the council to amend to amend the charter uh
from the council. Is is is that how I'm reading this? Charter amendments procedure to amend. Well, there is a provision that allows the council to amend the charter. >> Correct. Yes. But does that have to go to a vote to the public? I'm sorry. A public vote.
>> So, if I may go and I'd have to pull it up on MUN code, but what it says basically is that we're going to be following that provision of the the Miami Day County Home Rule Charter and that the council to uh create a um an ordinance uh that allows, you know, for
the implementation of that. And I believe that one was adopted and that's what what has followed but computer's acting a little clunky but I'll get you that m that citation from our code. >> Yes. Thank you. Once again it's just a clarification. You know I need sometimes we like to discuss these things without
actually an amendment only because for clarification so we understand how one impacts another. That that's why I bring this up. Thank you. >> Yes I do recall reading that there is a provision uh I believe it's 7.4 4C.
Uh, and I believe alternative proposals may be submitted. Um, the council shall submit suggested amendments and revisions to the electors of the town in accordance with section 6.1. But I do believe there's there's a
explicit authority of the council submitting it, but they they can't just amend the charter on their own either. It still goes to the electors. >> That's how I interpret that also. But perhaps a clarification because once again I'm not sure exactly what powers we are providing our town council. I
just want to make sure it's sufficient checks and balances. >> Okay. >> So if I mean I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> There's there's two sections of um the actual our actual code. uh it can be
found I I believe this is article uh two um charter amendments and it's found in chapter 2 administration uh so the um section 2.21 purpose it says pursuant to the sound charter 6.1 so it relates
back to the charter this article shall prescribe the method proposed in charter amendments to the town electors in a manner consistent with the provisions of section 5.03 03. So you are correct. There's a scrivener's error. It's supposed to be 5.03, not not six. That's
that's a inconsistency in the charter. >> Apologize. Where where do you believe? >> So I'm looking at if I may approach. Yes. >> Well, you're it's wrong because I'm looking at the home rule and it's 6.03. 03 is municipal charters
>> the county court. >> Yeah, this is a me. This is the home rule amendment 6.03 municipal charters. >> I have a 6.03 here. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, our code needs to be amended. So, this is good. We're finding out
things that need to be fixed. um of the Miami County Charter. Then uh it's it separates it by section 2.2 two that means I'm sorry uh section 2.22 and section 2.23. Section 2.23 is the form that we're all participating in this
forum which is charter amendments proposed by the charter revision committee. Section 2.22 is charter amendments by opposed by the town council. And on that one what it says is the town council may propose amendments to the charter at any time by council resolution. Alternative proposals may be submitted by the town council. The
council resolution shall provide the full text and proposed charter amendment, the proposed ballot question and the form of publication, the notice of election and can call the election date for date certain in accordance with applicable law. In other words, they can go ahead and they can propose it, but then it has to be put out for the electors.
>> Mr. uh Mr. Chair, do we need for scribers there? Do we need a motion to amend or is it just fixed? >> That's the ordinance. So, it's it's the ordinance that's being that needs to be fixed and we'll go ahead and take note and and make uh and fix that. >> Thank you. >> Yeah,
>> it's possible. It could have been used to be 4.03 and the county changed it to 6.03. >> Sure. All right. But that's over in the ordinance. That's the council's responsibility. We still have one of the council members here.
All right. Anything else on 6.1 A or B? All right. And then we're going to go to now article seven. Uh we're going to start with uh 7.1 severability. Does anybody have any discussions items?
Any amendments? >> Just for the record, um Mr. Attorney, could you define severability? I mean in contracts I know what it means but does it does it apply to this also? >> Severability means that it could you could have a charter provision that becomes illegal. Uh we're all beholden
to to the state uh and if they pass something that makes a section of our charter legal. I mean it's it's possible. So severability basically says that if you have a portion of the charter that's illegal, the rest is not affected. That's all it means. >> Thank you. >> Yes. And and I'll follow up with that aspect of it. Yes, it is a legal term and severability also goes into it's not
only just if it's illegal, it's if it's been deemed now invalid by a subsequent measure that has been done either by the town or by a or by the state or a higher authority. U you including court law that could say it'll just simply excise it without having to to go through a
formal process of removing it. 7.2 conflicts of interests ethical standards. Any questions, comments, discussions? 7 72 right um yes I a question quick question again um does this relate to
lobbyist in other words um I'm I'm a little bit fuzzy on you if the council member should have fin if he should have a financial interest or direct indirect for any reason of ownership does that come back to as does he have to register as a lobbyist if he wants to if he has a
stake at something I know he can't vote on it probably but would he have to register as a lobbyist if he wants to speak about something before the council in this case. I mean I I'm just trying to interpret what that might mean. A lobbyist >> Mr. Attorney I'm not sure the question but
>> yeah a lobbyist is very specific. It's someone who is advocating on behalf of a particular group whether it's nonprofit or profit to advance some type of legislation or to obtain some kind of uh agreement from from the town. They're
trying to to lobby the council. So in other words, they're trying to get something from government >> and as government officials here, if they have a conflict of interest, they need to disclose that. That's governed though by the rules of ethics, right? Miami county rules of ethics. But they're here, they're they're doing their job as council members. They're
they're advocating uh on behalf of the residents and doing their job as >> and and my question of course was if they wanted to get once again, I game these things up. If they were wanted to get around that provision, if he was a registered lobbyist, could they then forward the at least their wants and
desires? They may not be able to vote on it, but uh they would have to as a lobbyist, wouldn't they be able to come before the council and advocate for a particular item? >> No. A lobbyist again is somebody who's independent of the council. So no, by definition, >> being a registered lobbyist has no
bearing at all on this. No. Okay. >> If I'm understanding your question right and Mr. Attorney is a council member cannot register as lobbyist before the body that it rep that it's sitting on because of then that's actually in state law that's
chapter 112 and that that supersedes this aspect of it you know so they they can't they would have absolute uh conflict of interest so they couldn't do that >> and and that's why I asked that's why I asked >> so chapter 112 is Florida uh rules of ethics which Miami county doesn't
supersede them they they strengthen those same rules Correct. Yeah, they they've enhanced Yeah, they've enhanced the chapter 112 under the county rule of charters and I think we've adopted through the county those enhanced >> uh ethical obligations. >> Correct. >> Okay. And and that's why I asked the question once again for discussion.
There are some things that that arise as I read these and I wanted and I like to know if there's a way to get around it if that would have been one of the ways. That's fine. Um thank you. I have nothing else. and and the clerk just brought an important point is that after they are no longer members of this
council, they are prohibited for I think a period of two years from lobbying on any item before this council. >> Yeah, the state has done a lot of legislation on that enhancing uh that time period in pre creating a gap
between the time when they were on the board as well or whatever they serve on that public body and then subsequently. So, so, so spontaneously all those laws are automatically part of our of our our charter. We don't have to specify it. It's it's essentially implied in our charter.
>> Well, it's specific. It says, you know, the second the first sentence says all council members, officials, town employees of the town shall be subject to the standards of the conduct for public officers and employees as set by law. >> So, it's already incorporated. It's it's very explicit there. And even if it
wasn't in there, Florida law requires it, mandates it, and so does the county's charter require it. So it'd be and that would be where if we had some conflicting, that's where your 7.1 severability would come into play. All right. Any other questions? 7.2
conflicts of interest. All right. 7.3 town personnel. All right. Uh we're 7.4 for charter revision. We're going to start with a U. I know there's some presentation uh by
manager Peterman. All right. 7. Do you have the presentation up there, Alexis? >> Yes, he has it up. >> Yes. >> 7.4. Oh, it's coming >> because I'm looking at the just the charter. >> There it is.
>> With no There we go. All right. And so since we do not have a December meeting, this is the language that u that we uh put in with council member
Fernandez to make it clear that the appointment of the commission is done at the final regular meeting of the calendar year. And that's what they did this past year. The appointment of the commission members was done in November
and this is just more of a way of clarifying that it's done at the final regular meeting of the calendar year. If in the future the council decides to go back to having a December meeting, then it would be in December. Otherwise, uh
under the current calendar schedule, it's done in the November meeting. >> Right. Thank you, Manager Peterman. Is there a motion? That's for A. >> Yes, that's for A. Is there a motion? >> Yeah, I I don't see any problem with
adopting it. I mean, that's but specifically the previous ones on its final regular meeting. So, I don't see an issue. >> Okay. So, just to read it in the record, your motion is to add the language at the end which states at its final regular meeting of the calendar year to section 7.4A.
>> Correct. That I mean, yes. Motion, but that's fine. That's >> No, I just want to read it so it's so people can see it. >> No, I I appreciate that. I appreciate that. >> Uh, and is there a second? >> I'll second. >> Commissioner Marostos is seconded. Uh, any further discussion?
>> All right. All in favor say I. >> Any oppose? Seeing none, the motion passes. Now we're going to go to 7.4B. Manager Peterman. >> Yes. This one is more just clarifying language. It talks about that the charter commission shall consist of one
person appointed by each member of the council. And that gets away from in the future whether the five member uh council gets adopted or doesn't get adopted. It's just gets away from the specific number of seven and it just
says one person appointed by each member of the council. So whether we have five or seven that you know that will it's one person per member of the council. >> Okay. Let's take that first section first, then we'll take the second half
of that because I think that's will be a different discussion there. Um, is there a motion to for that amendment? >> I'll second. Comm Commissioner Mats has motioned and for the record it's to add in the first line is it should read the
charter commission shall consist of strike the word seven add the word one continuing persons and then continuing adding appointed by each member of the council period. >> I I seconded the motion second that
motion. Any discussion? Yeah, I think this language will would make things easier if we ended up going from a seven member council to a five member. It just solves it because I don't know if um our town attorney can get everything in in 75 words to fix it all. So, so yeah,
this would be just a spontaneous correction then. >> Yeah, I think I think the challenge with the 75 words is just simply because he's an attorney. I speak for myself as well. It's hard to put anything in 75 words when you do that. Just to just to introduce our own selves. >> Yes. Well, as you can see, I'm very long-winded also. So,
>> so all right. Any further discussion on that motion? >> All right. All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? Seeing none. >> All right. U manager Peter Chairman. >> Yes. >> I just wanted to let um the board members know that a commission member
Tony Fernandez has been participating. >> Oh, >> right. Like maybe in the last 15 minutes or so and he has confirmed. So, he is listening and I don't see him in the screen, but I have his um he's acknowledging via cell that he is
listening to the meeting and that he will vote or talk when he needs to. >> Can you guys hear me now? >> There you go. >> Yes, we hear you. I'm here. >> Thank you, sir. >> There you go. Another another fun old commercial if anybody knows that reference. >> Yes.
>> Thank you, Commissioner Fernandez. And welcome welcome to us. And please let us know if you have any discussion items or anything you'd like to discuss on these. Please interrupt me if I don't see you uh with your raised hand. Um >> thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Second part, manager Peterman, if you
want to continue on. I think the rest of it you can kind of take together. >> Yes, >> if you wanted to have that discussion of the second sentence and the remaining on that section B. >> Yeah, it's it's more clarifying language. uh the inserting there because we had the word council member and it's
again clarifying that it's the mayor and each council member we couldn't substitute shall be made by each member of the council for that language but it's just to clarify that the mayor also gets an appointment. Um
then a little further down the striking the word may and then shall and inserting shall um that in the event of a second term council member is not serving the mayor shall appoint a sitting council member. So he's going to appoint somebody no matter what. And
then the next whole sentence, the entire sentence that's added language is the council member that the mayor appoints is subject is more clarifying language to just I know that you've been treating it like this, but it's just that that council member is subject to the sunshine law, may participate in the
discussion and debate, but does not have a vote and doesn't count towards uh qual. >> Okay. And then you have at the very last sentence. >> Oh yeah. Changing from 45 to 60 days.
>> Okay. Is there a motion? >> Well, motion to adopt um with clarification. >> Sure. Well, what how would you like to present it if you're clarify, you know, can certainly give discussion. and he just not he hasn't vote toward he
doesn't have a vote toward quorum or on the commission but he's here the only difference is the word sunshine law is that the only difference in the language that we're voting on >> no he's so there was a couple of items and and I'll I'll read them again and in the first sentence he's adding the one
appointment shall be made by the and adding the mayor and each member of council member of the council based on the our new nomenclature that came up with. Then in the
third sentence down, in the event of a second term, council member is not serving the mayor and he's replacing the word may with the word shall. So, it's the mayor shall appoint a sitting council member and then adding the sentence in full
that the council member the council the council member that the mayor appoints is subject to the sunshine law and may participate in the discussion and debate on the on issues. Think it should be on the issues but shall not vote or count
towards quorum. And then the last sentence is the charter commission shall commence its proceedings within and they expanded it by additional 15 days from to 60 days striking the 45 calendar days after the appointment after appointment by the council.
>> Yeah, I'm seeing this as a distinction without a difference though. I don't see what the difference is aside from the 40 60 days versus 45 days. Yeah, I think well >> and the reason >> because of the holidays primarily where when the appointment of the commission is is set and then you're going through
you know the the holiday season is just to give the commission a little more breathing room as to what they'll start. >> So generally as as stated the last uh council meetings around November and then that gives them as opposed to in December so that it would just give them
a little more leeway through the holidays. Yeah. Give you pretty much probably to the middle of February or middle of January to have your first meeting just in case the holidays just don't work out for everyone so they can have it. >> Seems reasonable. >> So that's is that your motion to >> Yeah. A motion to adopt as those are
reasonable and um you know we we we do want to make government work within you know workable standards. So yeah, I'm going to that's my motion to adopt the language. >> Okay. Is there a second? >> I'll second it. Second by Commissioner B. Any further discussion or any discussion? All
right. Seeing none, all in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Seeing none, motion passes. All right. Is we're going to go now to anything else on section B from anyone from the commission. All right. Now, going to section C. Uh, manager
Peterman, if you want to go through with your uh suggestions, recommendations. >> Yeah, this is it. It's more because of the elections department timelines for items to get on the ballot and especially um you know that the count
that the commission uh proposed amendments that they be uh submitted to the council no later than June 1st of of the year. So that gives them from let's say the middle of January to June gives them almost you
know five and months and change to prepare uh any amendments and present them to the council gives the council enough time to to then vote on them and uh approve the language that the attorney the 75word language and then it
gives them enough time then for the clerk to work with the elections department to make sure it gets on the ballot. And this the last uh added language at the end is after 6.1 is that it be specific that it go on the general
election ballot of the year where proposals were submitted to the ballot. So to avoid any kind of uh you know issues with maybe it be a mail-in ballot or a standalone ballot or a standalone election that it be on the general election again with the intended purpose
of getting as many people as possible to vote on uh these charter revisions proposed by the charter commission. >> All right. Is there any any motion? >> I'd like to make a motion to adopt with an amendment.
>> Sure. What would be what's the language that you would >> the the amendment is that I think the I want the charter commission to remain a um a commission a commission body until such time as all questions are submitted to the electors. In other words, I think
that this commission should remain uh a commission until such time as their work is done, which means that the language has been sent to the electors and that there no further changes can be made. I'm I'm where what where would you prop
where would you add that in that section C? That section C is concerning how the >> amendments to the charter revisions are going to be submitted to the electors. >> Well, once again, we can do that. But see, once again, the general election to the ballots going to the electors. I
think it should be part of this. You don't use this. >> No, I'm asking you where is it that you see that language proposed? I I >> Well, then I Well, okay, fair enough. We could add a section D if you want to make it separate and that way we don't have to do that. So yes. Okay. We could
do that as a section D. >> All right. So we'll consider that right after this one then. >> That'll be fine. >> Okay. So your motion right now is to read in >> just adopt adopt it as is >> as proposed and I'll read it real quick is to change the the month of in the sec
first sentence strike October add in the word June and then in strike the third sent the second sentence which states alternative proposals may be submitted in the third or yeah the third sentence now the council shall submit strike
suggested and add proposed amendments and then at the end of the sentence add the words on the general election ballot of the year where proposals were submitted to the council. That's the motion. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Commissioner Mto second. Any further
discussion on this item? >> I I would like to add some. So I just want clarification. So if we're going to strike alternative proposals may be submitted. So, how do we submit alternative proposals? >> Yeah, that I think that language didn't
make any sense to us when I was going over it with council member Fernandez. He had some doubts about that language and that's why I think he determined to propose striking that out. >> Mr. Town attorney, are you guys aware of
any other provision that allows for alternative provisions in the town charter? I'm not proposing anything. But >> not only that, but as the town charter delegates that the or rather as the town charter prescribes that the method by
which you you amend charter questions are done through the ordinance and I've read both ordinances. So there's only two ways. It's either through the charter charter commission or through the council. So that's the only alternative. >> So again just for clarification since since Dr. Bender was in that commission.
Do you recall why that that was there? Why was added? >> Give me a moment. I'm trying to remember the specific provision. Um the turn to proposals. >> If I may, the only reason that this makes a little sense thinking it through is that
>> so charter commission is going to go ahead and and submit it to the council. The council has to submit it to to the electors. That's definite. But the the council at that point in time can go ahead and say, "Okay, well, we want to go ahead and and propose something else
that maybe is is different or or something that that supplements or complements anything that's been done here." So, I think that that's why it says alternative proposals may be submitted, but but I agree it's it doesn't, you know, because then the next sentence is the council shall submit suggest. Yeah, it it doesn't make sense
unless you want to say that the council can also submit their own proposals, but it does it feels like it doesn't belong here in this section. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like the property tax items that are being considered at the state level, some of them may be in conflict with each other.
And that's that language here almost proposes that you can put two different competing items that conflict with each other on the ballot. And I think it would only lend to uh uh confusion on the part of the voter. >> And I guess that's why I brought up the
idea that in the event for alternative proposals that the commission could reconvene to discuss if there was an issue that the town uh council has proposed for the charter amendment that our commission could at least meet on that and at least debate it. Yeah,
>> that's kind of what I was hoping to be able to accomplish that it wouldn't just be and begin begin and end with the council that this commission would still have some input on what on the ballot language. >> Okay. I we'll talk I think that goes to the second item that we'll discuss. I
don't want to mix the two. Um I did a quick search of the main of the charter and the only pl this is the only place that the term alternative is used throughout the entire charter at least the quick search that I did. So I don't know where the alternative proposals that may be submitted. I don't know
whether the alternative proposals would be even it's not even discussed or defined anywhere else. At least not using the word alternative. So I think striking it just it just it's a cleanup type of language. >> Um so with that uh we have any further
discussion on uh the the motion. All right. Seeing none all in favor say I. >> I. >> I. Any opposed? Seeing none, motion passes. I'll make sure to give you a sec a
second longer. Commissioner Fernandez, my apologies. >> All right. Thank you. >> All right. Uh, Commissioner Benner, you wanted to discuss an addition. >> Yeah. I guess section D that basically I'd like to make a motion that the charter commission remain as a
commission you know in full force until such time as the electors has the questions because at that point we can no longer alter anything that goes on the ballot. I would like to just basically in case something comes up that we may not have realized that this commission could join again as a special
session perhaps and then allow us to go ahead and discuss anything that may have come up. >> Okay, let me start off with um I know you you you were kind of making a motion but I don't if you have exact language that you're proposing. >> You don't have exact language. So basically that this the motion is that
this charter commission remains in force until such time as the electors are grant are given the questions for vote >> to the chair is it may or shall >> sorry >> so again the charter commissioner do you
want may or shall m commissioner Ben >> well shall has a little bit more weight than may so I guess we'll we'll leave it as shall just to keep it okay >> okay madam clerk do you have Okay. Is there a second? >> I'll second it. >> All right. You'll second. Are there any
discussions? No. >> So, just for again just clarification, not that I'm dis in disagreement or anything like that. So, you you're proposing what? Until election day, until they have a chance to vote on it. >> No, once it's been submitted for the ballot. In other words, the language has been completely uh signed off and now
that the Department of Elections now has the questions. At that point, I don't believe we can do any changes. It's once it's been submitted, I don't think there's any type of revision on any questions submitted for the ballot initiative, I'm assuming. So, in other words, I think what's the deadline? Is it October for
>> Right now, it's October 1st. >> October. >> So, we would the current charter. >> Yeah, we would. And right now, as I said, it's October. We would basically, you know, may be a commission. We may not be meeting, but anyone who sees an issue may call a special call meeting up until that that time in which the
language has been complete. Cannot be altered. Let me ask u Mr. Town attorney, are you does the order ordinance state uh with regard to the charter revision commission when our duties terminate? >> Let me look.
>> Okay. You have a chance on that? Uh because I just like to see because if the ordinance already provides for something uh you know it might be better addressed at the ordinance level. Um you know, but if you want to have something more at the charter end, uh is what I'm trying to understand. Um, Commissioner
Bennett is your proposal is to have it the commission to be remain uh active, I guess, for a lack of better term uh until it's submitted to the council. >> No, the language is submitted to the um
the department of elections because the council may want to make some provisions, you know, and then this charter commission may want to reconvene to discuss what their changes are. >> Okay. Well, the our body cannot change the council's language.
>> Well, we can add we can add two two other uh other questions. I just asked the uh attorney how many questions have to be on the ballot. He said there is no limit. We may want to add an additional question. >> Okay. Okay. So, you're you're you're just you're you'd just like to make sure that there's a provision that allows us
to reconvene uh if necessary to address any of the to potentially provide counter proposals to what the town council may >> whatever the body decides. Once again, it it has to be a >> Oh, no. I know it'd be a consensus, but what I'm saying is what that's what you're seeking to do.
>> Essentially, yes. That this that our commission is not going to be discharged at the end of whatever April. that that we would remain we may not be meeting at any at any time but we would remain a commission until such time as the language has been delivered to the department of elections.
>> Okay. >> So if I can for clarification m >> so the purpose of that would be in the event that once those items are submitted to council and there's a question or reasoning they they're questioning why we determined that or
came up with that proposal. You're saying if we sunshine in at the end in April, we're not allowed then as a body to come back and address any of those questions. Is that the reason behind this? >> Correct. >> Bennett, >> essentially that is correct. I just want
to be sure that the charter commission, you know, has input right up until the end that the language has been sealed and codified into onto the ballot. And the only reason why is we might act, you know, we might find some of the language that the attorney may have made a a
scrier's error or some type of error. U you know that we want to basically make sure that we haven't missed anything because you know like anything else sometimes in the wordsmiths over here we uh we miss certain minor you know errors that may need to be brought before this
commission. >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes. Go ahead. And Commissioner Fernandez, >> thank you so much. I I I would be a little bit concerned um you know, to to Mr. Bennett's point, I would be a little
bit concerned that it would end up being a uh um a loop of uh rebuttals, right? So if you know we we finish our duties and then the council decides to propose
you know uh an alternative um as as we discussed to one of the things that this uh body proposed. it would give this body a second bite of the apple to then counter that that and then propose something else that the council is
obligated to to put on there and then then puts the council in a position to change like I I I don't necessarily want it to be a race to the uh to to the deadline uh if there's disagreement
between what this commission says and what the council wants I I don't want it to be a process where we go back and forth with uh competing proposals. So I I and and ultimately the council is able to to submit any such
proposals at any time. Um so I I don't think um I I I would just caution against uh doing that for that reason. >> May I reply? >> Go ahead. Whatever.
>> Go ahead, Commissioner Benner. >> Yeah. Well, once again, second by the apple. The the reason that we've been basically impanled here is to provide any language necessary for the town charter. If the if the council chooses to basically not interpret what we
wanted correctly, we have no way of basically responding to them other than a public records or excuse me, uh, public comments. So I think as a commission we are representing the people of Miami Lakes and as such we should remain a commission until such
time as our duties are discharged. >> Okay. >> Hold on. Let me go to the town attorney and then I'll go to commissioner Matos. >> While the code does not explicitly state when the uh commission has discharged its duty. I think it's implicit in the
sense that it states um in the event and by the way alternative is also in the ordinance. I'm gonna read the whole thing. It's food for thought. In the event that the charter revision commission submits a proposed amendment or revision to the charter comma
including alternative proposals, pursuant to chart town charter section 7.4 four comma the town council shall propose such amendments to the charter by council resolution. The council resolution shall provide the full text of the proposed charter amendment, the proposed ballot question and the form
publication of notice of election and shall call the election for a date certain in accordance with applicable law. So implicitly at the moment that this u body forwards those questions to the council it has completed its duty. Now
it is up to the council to take those questions and submit it to the electorate via resolution. Uh so although it's not explicit, I believe that at the moment that you have finalized the questions that you're going to submit to the council, then you have to start your duties.
Okay. All right. Any further discussion on this item on the proposal to add language? Oh, Commissioner Moss, my apologies. I don't see any harm in not sunshining when we're done, but I don't
know that in in listening to the town attorney why we would want to continue if in fact it it's really not any different than anything else. Once you've completed your task or your job, you're finished.
>> So, may I'll reply. Okay, that's >> the likelihood of of the council coming back because we weren't clear. We need to be clear at the point where we propose those those items.
>> So I think continuing on is really not relevant. >> Right. Commissioner Bennett, you wanted to respond. >> Well, once again, so our town attorney says that our duties are discharged once we have the questions approved by the council that the attorney is going to be writing up.
>> No, no, the questions are not approved. >> Commissioned by us. I'm one more time. >> What way the chair just said >> the questions are when they're approved by us by the commission. The council does not approve ours. What they do is they pretty much are ratifying it to submit it to the electors. They however
we write it is the way it's going to go. >> The council does not have the authority or ability to modify our proposed question. Now they could submit additional uh type of amendments that they want to include that is supplemental to what we
provide. Everything then goes over to uh the supervisor of elections to add to the ballot. And so what they do is from what I from what he read and I understood is all they do is it's incorporated into a resolution that they approve that they say hey look supervisor of elections this is what we
want to put on the ball ballot to go to our the electors of town of Miami Lakes to vote on. So they don't amend anything that we do or modify or anything like that. Um they can supplement it but they can't change it. Is that correct? >> Absolutely. Correct. >> Okay. So, and once again, so our duties
as a commission are now are discharged once we have the questions voted on by the commission and submitted to the council because they they they don't they they have the right to look over our questions. Doesn't go immediately to the ballot, does it? >> No. Yeah, absolutely. They they they can
look over the questions, but they can't modify. Whatever you decide, that goes to the council. They have to adopt it by resolution. So they adopt it and then it gets >> that's how I remember it last time. I just want to be clear. The only reason I wanted to once again to remain a commission in the event that some of the
language needs to be clarified. So what you're saying is we must get it right when we finish and that's it. And that we can't no scrier errors, no errors at all. This is what we intended and that's it. And and that makes it a little bit more pressure to make sure that what we are trying to do is adopted or excuse me
is basically presented. However, once again, it's just a matter of uh I I call it human error to make sure that we produce the uh the the commission at a at a time certain period. And I just pick once again that the the actual when
the electors vote is when the commission even though we can't change anything once it's submitted to anybody, nobody can change anything once it's submitted to the Department of Elections. I'm assuming the questions are submitted and that's it. >> Yeah, >> we can't resend it, can we? I'm just trying to say I mean I game once again I
game these things out. So we have our 10 questions. The council's approved it and it's submitted to the department of elections to be placed on the ballot. I mean that's that's how I understand it, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, that's what I'm trying to say that once once it's actually been
placed on the ballot, I believe that's when we are um our our duties are discharged. Okay. All right. Commissioner Mr. Yeah. I I I just wanted to to put something on the record. Let's uh let's not lose
sight that uh even if the proposed language um would end up being adopted, this would only be effective for the next cycle. So to to Mr. Bennett's point, you know, the the pressure of getting this right before it gets to council is still uh very much on us
right now. Uh because we have to operate under the uh the the assumption that this language doesn't exist because it it doesn't. >> Thank you, Commissioner Fernandez. Commissioner B. >> Yeah. I mean, I'm just trying to to think why you're making this proposal. I
mean, I if once we finish the language, like you said, once we propose it to the council, nothing can be changed, right? If the council has to submit it, then what's I don't understand the point of us having to stay as a commission through elections. So, at the end of the day, nothing can be done. We're not
going to be changing anything else. We're not going to be meeting again, >> right? And but the council may also propose alter alternate questions that conflict directly with what we have. >> Yes. Uh so look I I think we've had a lot of discussion so I'm going to kind
of I'm going to respond to that aspect of it and give my thoughts on it as well. Um the council has every right to and I think this is what uh someone had mentioned you know you kind of go into like a cycle of okay competing of who's going to now put in an amendment because then we have to bring it back to the
council they have to vote on it then maybe they put another alternative but you know I I referenced it earlier it's already in the town charter uh that in the event that there's competing conflicting type of charter amendments that pass the one with the largest the higher vote is the one that ends up
passing. So in the event that you know the electors are going to make the decision as to hey look it's going to be the council's version or is it going to be the commission's version if they're conf in the event of conflicting type of provisions you know it's the electors going to ultimately decide what that
what that is going to be um what I did want to further say is that uh you know I don't you know I'm not in agreement with extending the time I think our as the town attorney had stated you know our our duty is to make these proposals
to go to the town commission. Um, you know, I think the town council has their opportunity to also move forward with proposing uh alternatives or even their own that are that we did not consider or take up on their own uh that they can submit as well. And I don't think it's
necessarily our role to then uh believe, hey, look, well, we could have come up with something better because we should do that at this point. And I can reassure you that, you know, to the extent I can, you know, I'll be working together with the town attorneys when we're coming up with the final questions uh that we'll be proposing to all of you
guys. And I'll expect every single one of the commissioners to review those questions, you know, from grammatical errors, from punctuation, spelling, and everything uh so we can get the best version of everything that we want to have proposed to be on the ballot. Cuz trust me, is I'm I'm a
stickler for looking at every single one of those things. you guys saw it at the very beginning in the first couple of meetings. You know, I I look at these very closely. Um, you know, and since we're already covering a lot of these edits, I'm not doing those little minor edits throughout now, uh, as we're going through these sections, but I think it's
going to, you know, we're going to get there and I'm going to want I'm going to rely on each one of us to really look at all the the the each of the line each of our edits and the language that we're going to be proposing. uh because I know I'm don't have the you know as having drafted thousands of contracts and
thousands of phrases one thing I do know is that when you are the one reading it and reviewing it you start reading in your mind after a while and having fresh eyes and having different points of view is very important and so I'm going to be relying on everyone in this commission uh the city here to take a look at
everything uh critically and also you know from not only from the technical standpoint of hey look this this the product that we want to submit to the council. So with that, I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to call the question. Uh all in favor of the motion say I. >> All oppose say nay.
>> Nay. All motion dies. Okay. All right. So 7.4. Anything else for 7.4 charter revision? All right. So we're going to go now to 7.5. Uh variation of pronouns. Any discussions? Any motions? Seeing
none, we'll move on. Section 7.6 6 non- no discrimination. Any discussions, modifications? Seeing none, we're going to go to 7.7 precedents over related laws. Any discussions, changes, modifications.
Seeing none. All right, we're going I think that is it. Yes, we are done for uh what we have for the agenda for today, my friends. Um, so just uh just briefly is I anticipate we're going to go through section 8 and section nine,
the last two sections of our charter um at the next meeting in addition to obviously the old business business items that we've had that we've discussed. Uh and uh please take a look at it, make any suggestions as I've stated before. Um, if you guys are going
to have proposed any type of modifications, please put them in a form of a motion that you'll submit to the clerk so she can share it with all of us so we can see it in advance as well as so they can have it ready so they can put it up on uh the monitor so everyone can see the language uh that's being
proposed for those changes. Um, and can you remind us of the meeting? >> Yes. And the next meeting is March 12th and then March 26. >> And March 26. All right. And so with that, I just want to remind everyone is
as always, we we really appreciate the comments from everyone that appears both here in person uh from the members of the public in person, whether on Zoom or if they send communications through the town clerk to share with us. Uh you know, it is has been stated over and over. This
is really uh we're trying to represent the entire coun the entire community in doing this and we'd love to hear from each one of your opinions. um as it may be. And we really appreciate everyone that's been tuning in and following up and uh talking about
this. And with that, we adjourn. >> Good night.