Oh yeah, >> this is >> Okie dokie. Let's start. >> Mr. Chair, it's 6:30. 6:30. Good evening everybody. Uh, our chair is running just a couple of minutes late, so he asked that we get
started and he'll join us uh, in just a couple of minutes when he arrives. Welcome everybody to uh the second meeting of the town of Miami Lakes Charter Revision Committee Commission. Thank you all for being here this evening. Um we'll call the meeting to order and we'll start with a moment of
silence. >> So board member Abad >> present. >> Board member Fernandez >> present. >> Board member Bennett >> here. >> Board member Matoss
>> present. Board member Ruano, >> present. >> Vice Chair Inguanzo, >> present. >> Vice Chair, you have quorum. >> Thank you, Madam Clerk. My apologies. So, I skipped uh that call at order, but we'll uh go ahead and uh uh continue
with a moment of silence. Thank you. Please remain um standing for the pledge of allegiance. Officer Amalord, do you mind if you lead us in the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, to the republic for which it
stands, one nation under God, indivisible, liberty, justice for all. Thank you, Officer Armador. All right, we'll go ahead and um begin the meeting with public comments. Madam Clerk, I'll turn it over to you.
>> Yes, as always, welcome. We always have um individuals here, President Council Chambers. And if you're here for public comments, just approach the podium, state your name and address for the record, and we will allow three minutes. And as well we welcome public comments
that are via remote. We see one participant. I welcome you sir. And please again just approach the podium stating your name and address for the record. Welcome. >> Good evening.
what he said, Councilman. Um, uh, I blanked out there, but anyways, uh, thank you very much for what you guys are doing, for your dedication. 3 minutes are up already. Well, that was a quick 3 minutes.
Uh, thank you, uh, Angelo Cuadra Garcia, 16441 Northwest 77th place in the beautiful town of Miami Lakes. basically um this is my very first time um you know
learning about uh this event. I knew that it took place back in 20 uh 2010. Then it was supposed to take place in 2020 but co's put us back. So it puts us almost is that correct? So we had it in 2010
2016 and then then we were supposed to have it didn't co put us back. So, we're on track. Okay, great. So, I had it I had it wrong. So, basically, um uh this is going to be an interesting uh learning experience for me. Um, what I
would like to um to to to to share with uh with this body is that I'd like to see I'm sure there'll be other things that I'd like to share with you, but one of the things that I'd like to share is where
and um Ed don't please don't take it personal. I love you as much as you love me. So um you know we love ourselves mutual. Uh, basically what I'd like to see, it happened the other day and that's why I wanted to uh to uh share this.
A person called me. I tried to reach out to see who was the person in charge. That person in charge um I saw that uh our manager was out of town. So then it got turned over to uh basically um
whoever was I think it was our public works director. Yeah. He wasn't available. So, and then they turned it over to um Danny Angel. So, uh if Danny would have been available, then it would have gone probably to somebody in another
department. That needs to be corrected. I think that we need to look at that. And >> you could have just called me. >> No, I didn't want to bother you. I didn't want to bother. You said you you said when I've been overseas, >> what I what I think 24 hours a day. >> What I think it should be is if you're
if you're taking your vacation, we need to respect it. and then therefore you uh need to turn it over to your assistant um town manager and then so forth. So basically whatever it is that needs to be done look at it, tweak it and and
make sure that uh it you know it needs to be corrected. The other one that I'd like to add is that I personally and I and I've heard it from numerous people from numerous residents um we don't need two town managers. Two
town managers are not needed. We're a very small town. I think that we can do well with just one town manager and an assistant. Thank you very much. >> Good evening everyone. Um guess name Steven Hersburg chapter 119. Um I first
just want to say I appreciate you guys all being here. This is a very important job that you've been selected and I think each one of you have been selected because you bring a certain viewpoint that um that is valued by the council member that selected you. Uh I the only
thing I want to also add is other than thanking you guys is when you guys get to parts of the charter that are important that um should have some public input, I believe that you should have that as an agenda item on those specific changes. for example, it
probably comes up every time, strong mayor, right? Should we go to a strong mayor? It makes sense that when this body makes that decision to vote that down or up, give some notice. So, if if next week you guys are going to look over the mayor section of the charter,
it I think it's appropriate to discuss it, but it's more appropriate to say, are we going to have a vote on whether or not we have we should change to a strong mayor and do that the following week to allow residents, us staff to give input on that issue directly. That
doesn't have to be for every every issue. Um there's a lot of ideas I have that I'm I've shared with Ed and I'll I can share uh with you all. But I think when you're looking at some major changes, just give um everybody, especially the residents, an opportunity
to look at that and speak and give their input at the next meeting. That's the only critique I have. I know you guys will do a good job. I look forward to watching the meetings. I'll come when I can or else I'll watch them online. And I wish you all good luck and thank you again for uh contributing.
Good evening, uh, George Adena. I'm also exempt under chapter 119. Um, I basically have three things that I'd like to bring up and I'm just going to say all three and then come back and give some uh additional information
depending on how much time I have. My first item would be the makeup of the council. Uh I think that the council should be reduced to five members. The mayor plus board councilman. Okay. And I'll get more input on that after I
finish. Uh then my next comment is kind of stole my thunder a little bit is to go with a strong mayor form of government in this town. And again I'll give input on that. And my last item has
to do with evaluations. Uh this topic came up during the budget hearings and I think that this should be codified in the charter that every single employee of this town that draws a salary of any kind doesn't matter if
it's a buck should have an annual evaluation and not just a one sheet little rinky dinky little item. I'm talking about a comprehensive evaluation for each and every employee. All right. So, I'm going to go back to
the five council members. I did a little homework. Didn't take much on Google. City of Miami, the largest municipality in Miami Day County. Guess how many members they have on their council? Five. City of Dural
five. Coral Gables five. Pinerest five. I checked one in Bur County, Fort Lauderdale, five. Halleluah for some strange reason has seven. Okay. But I don't think we want to be like IO. Okay. But the reason for that um is just
number one for efficiency. Number two having more people having more opinion doesn't exactly make for better government. Okay. Keep it five. I think the agendas everything could fall more uh in time. Okay. As opposed to council
meetings extending into the we hours of the morning. Okay. So I think that should be a strong consideration uh for you all. As far as the strong mayor, same thing comes my personal experience. 30 years working for Miami date county
fire rescue when I first started it was a county manager and the first thing that I saw that I didn't like the county manager form of government was Hurricane Andrew in 1992. The mayor was nowhere to be found. Everything came from the manager and of
course the OEM director which eventually was disgraced and had to leave. Right. So I think that um a strong mayor form of government, you have a person that is accountable
directly to the voters. Um can I have another 30 seconds since not really that big of a crowd here? Thank you. Um, again, directly accountable.
Nothing to say about, you know, the manager. Um, but I personally would like to like right now in Miami date county. There is an effort to recall the mayor. Okay. So, directly accountable
to the voters, directly accountable uh to the taxpayers. Okay. Yes, I'm a retired firefighter. Georgia, did you provide your name? >> Yes, he did. Okay. And Gina knows. >> And I live five blocks away from >> Okay.
>> Thank you. Any other public comments? All right. Thank you. Thank you all for coming. Councilman, thank you both for being here today and for your comments. >> Okay. Vice Chair, we do have a participant online, Mr. Abel Fernandez.
Please unmute yourself. We see you. We just want to hear you. Welcome. >> Uh thank you, madam clerk. Good evening. My name is Abel Fernandez. Uh exempt under chapter 119. Everyone there knows me. I want to focus briefly on article one of our charter uh
the foundation of our home rule government. I sent you uh uh through the clerk information on article one today. You should all have it. If the foundation is vague, everything built on it becomes subject to confusion,
overreach or conflict. Why Article One matters? Article one defines who we are as a town, how power is structured, and how broadly that power is interpreted. Right now, it grants very broad
authority but lacks sufficient guard rails as we've seen uh to ensure accountability, transparency, and more importantly respect for voter authority. The key amendments that I sent you, and I'll make them quick on article one,
clarifying separation of powers. The charter states that we have a council manager form but doesn't clearly prevent individual council members from interfering in administration. I saw this happen several times with the previous mayor. My proposal makes it
explicit. Policy is collective. Administration is professional. This protects staff, residents, and the integrity of governance. Again, refer to the in uh information I have sent to you via the clerk. Strengthening voter
control over boundaries. Boundary changes already require voter approval, and that's good. But we should tighten public notice requirements so that residents are fully informed well before any vote, and the home rules charter
should never mean that we see surprises. Balancing broad powers with accountability. Article one grants the broadest powers allowed by law, but says nothing about how those powers should be exercised. Adding uh excuse me, adding language
about transparency and public participation doesn't weaken authority, it legitimizes it. Balanced charter interpretation. Finally, while construction favors the town, it should also respect democratic accountability.
This amendment balances government authority with the rights of residents. And in closing, these are not radical changes. They're clarifications on the existing language again that I've provided to you. They strengthen home
rule, protect voters, and reduce future conflict. I respectfully ask this committee to advance these amendments for further consideration. Uh in closing two points, a strong home rule charter is not just about power.
It's about clearly limiting and defining that power. And I've seen abuses over the years as someone who's attended many meetings and loopholes. I want to close that during this opportunity that we have every decade. With that said, I echo uh Council Member Herzburg. I did
not know until today that you're going on an order of articles and I submitted two other articles that I that should be in your possession, but I will now start appearing before every council me uh committee meeting to address these
articles independently. Uh, I would suggest much like an agenda is placed out and again I'm echoing uh, Councilman Hzburg that we advertise completely how to communicate with you uh, what is
expected from the folks at the podium such as I am doing now and what articles you're going to be considering. Thank you so much for your time and thank you for your service. And in closing, one more item that I had sent in the future. I hope that you look at a
charter amendment that the composition of all committees that serve this town and it's 33,000 residents that they're advertised that you allow folks to apply and submit their uh request to be
included in a committee. I would not like to see the repeat of this of appointing by council member who they feel without no advertising to the entire community. I think that's a disservice to us, the constituents and
the voters that elect this council. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you for your comments, Mr. Fernandez. Our chair is here, so I will turn the gavl over to him. Welcome, Mr. Chair. >> Thank you very much. Uh one, I'll start by apologizing for being late. Uh
unfortunately, I had to stop over at the urgent care for a quick minute. Uh but I am here. I've been listening to the comments online and so welcome everyone uh this evening. Um, do we have m Madame Clerk any other online? >> No, I don't see any other participant.
>> If I could a point of order. Um, Romero, thank you again for what you're doing. I hope you feel better. And go canes. I know it's against your noles, but quick question. Do you all of you have the documents that I have sent to the clerk? >> Yes. All the Yes. Everything.
>> I um Mr. Fernandez, I shared your email as soon as I received it and I also printed in hard copy and placed on the deis. >> Thank you. Uh I'm going to leave you all. Thank you again for your service. I appreciate it. >> Thank you, Mr. Fernandez. Um and just
for the matter of the record, there were other submissions that were submitted to the clerk that was shared. Is that correct? >> Yes, from Mr. Abel Fernandez as well. Um he spoke about article one. The other ones were other articles, but they were shared with all of you via email.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to move the approval of the minutes. >> Sure. Give me one second. I just wanted just to confirm since I'm running in late, there's no other public comment. Is that correct? >> All right. Thank you. So, we have a motion on the floor. >> I'll second it.
>> Second. Is uh All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Seeing none, the minutes pass. The motion passes. All right. So we'll move forward now on the items for discussion is we'll start off with the discussion
of the preamble as we had discussed initially um at our last meeting in December is that we were going to begin going through the each of the sections of the of our town charter uh started with today we're going forward with the preamble citizens bill of rights as well
as article one uh so we'll begin with the preamble and I just want as a point of you making it clear for all the residents and all those that are here on the commission is that simply because we have this discussion at this point does not mean that it cannot be reopened later on should we uh decide that we
either hear from the public comments cuz you know we may not be able to respond immediately to them or feel uh we want to add anything at a later point in time. Um so uh we'll with that discussion we'll begin with a preamble is I'll open the floor to any of the council members.
>> Thank you. Um, okay. Just want to clarify a few things to everyone. Um, the town charter in no way alters the law or municipal law or state law or any of that. And if I'm not mistaken, and I
hope the attorney would ring would sing into this, um, it's basically a contract between the elected members and appointed members and the people of Miami Lakes. Is is that how you could interpret a town charter? I would interpret a town charter as a
constitution of the of the town. >> Okay. But does does it carry any weight as far as altering the laws or changing municipal laws or anything like that? >> No. Municipal powers are given to the town of Miami Lakes Florida Constitution
uh which granted broad home rule powers. uh the charter is uh cementss kind of what those rules are within the the town and and and pretty much gives the framework of how the town is going to be governed. >> I just wanted to make sure that they people understand that we can't change
laws with the charter. >> Correct. >> You know, it's essentially the contract if you will between the people and the government. That's what constitutions tend to be how it's set up. >> I wouldn't call it a contract, but it's >> okay. Thank you. I just wanted that I I
wanted to make sure that the people understood we're not changing laws here. >> Correct. Thank you. Uh is does anyone else have any comments, discussions, proposals with regards to the preamble? All right. Seeing none, we're going to go to item 7B. Uh the discussion of the
citizens bill of rights. As we see this, uh you know, this is the largest portion of the that we're going to be discussing today or encapsulates most sections. Um, you know, citizens bill of rights is drafted primarily is pulled from the uh
the county citizens bill of rights which is being incorporated in most part not in in complete part but in relevant part and so I'll open up uh any discussions or any questions or proposals regarding the citizens bill of rights.
>> Mr. chairman. Uh obviously um the the essentially the bill of rights, you know, is is intact. However, as I said, we have comments here that basically maybe should be at least considered for an addition to the Bill of Rights. Uh Mr. Fernandez has kind of set forward
some things that would like to be seen as more of rights more than changing structures and so on and so forth like that. Um, I would like if we could obviously um look at the Bill of Rights, but then come back to this at a later meeting so that we can, you know, look
at the wording and the the information that public comments have provided us in order to go ahead and see if we should add to the bill of rights any of these particular things. >> No, absolutely. And and as I said it initially is that you know that's my intent is that you know that we have the
opportunity at later times if we want to bring things up because you know we have residents that are coming and speaking before us and giving us additional information that we may not have the opportunity to really fully digest. Uh but we will have time now uh between now and the next meeting to to take into consideration what Mr. Fernandez has
provided us and and his documents. So, uh, you know, I'll expect if you guys would like to have any considerations or any proposals is to please have them prepared for us so that way we can get them obviously this the more in advance we can get it going through the clerk uh so she can share so that way we can have it reviewed and so we can have a
meaningful conversation during our meeting. >> Of course, that that's why I was hoping that public comments would give us additional things that possibly we should incorporate in the Bill of Rights as opposed to the charter structure. >> Absolutely, 100%. >> Okay. Um any other con discussions or
proposals with regards to the citizens bill of rights? >> So I just wanted to touch base on a couple of things. So yes, I'm looking at number 11 in budgeting, right? >> And it talks about how the town should give um first public hearing prior to the
council's first public hearing on the proposed budget. um required by state law that time manager shall make public a budget summary setting setting forth the proposed cost of each individual department and reflecting you know whatever else should we not have like a
defined time I mean because to to me it could be like 5 minutes before the meeting right I I see it very vague prior to the town council's first public hearing that could be 5 minutes before the hearing should we set some sort of time frame whether it's a week before I mean I don't know how you guys
normally do your business But >> yes, the go ahead. >> The advertising of items that are going to be before the council, whether they be a regular item or a budget item or setting of the millage or anything else, we have timelines that we uh advertise
them. And uh I think it's at least 5 days, Gina. Five >> seven days. >> Seven days. Seven days prior to the meeting where it's going to be uh addressed. So based on that, should it be reflected on the charter that it will be 7 days or? >> Well, I would I would say is if you do
have a proposal to amend some of the language, you don't have to have it right now if you don't have it ready, but if that's something you'd like to consider, you know, I'd like to see a proposal for what you would believe, uh, it should be amended. Um, I can tell you in my opinion, I'm not sure with the town managers is I I think with from the
charter perspective in here is we're looking at generally what the charter is in my experience is more of the broader sense and that might be that timing is something that the council rules decides upon on a case-by case basis and they can modify it. Um, but once it's in the
charter, there's very little wiggle room for the council to modify. They may want more stricter time standards or they say, "Hey, look, you know what? we have a big budget year or some big issues are coming up and gives them that flexibility. So I would ask you in you know in if you're going to come up with a proposal is maybe is to keep that in
consideration um is to the the flexibility is understanding is when we put things into the charter the council has no wiggle room. Um but it's not to say that we won't wouldn't address it or whatnot but you know that's what I would you know like to just think about in coming up with a proposal for probably
for the next meeting is unless you have something today. No, I mean I I could make a motion, but if you rather wait until for the next meeting, I'm fine with that, too. >> It's up to you. You know, if you want I had the count of the commissioners. >> My way of seeing it if the town is
already using the seven days, you know, as as >> board member um about let me just make a correction. Let me correct myself. I stated seven days per special rules of order of the town council. The clerk
needs to generate the agenda the Wednesday before the regular council meeting before the meeting. So, it's really technically six days, but we do have it in writing. It's like codified via special rules of order. Just so that I wanted to share that with you. Not a
lot of people know that we have to follow those special rules of order that sometimes get amended by the board by the uh by the council members. It is in writing. Go ahead, chair. Town attorney. >> Thank you. So, a couple things on the
budget. One, the budget is really it's it's really geared a lot and governed by by statute. Statute sets forth when the property appraiser needs to send the information to the town when the town has to then go ahead and set the tentative millillage and then afterwards
it has its budget hearings and then afterwards it has uh its first and second reading of of the budget and and the millillage. That that being said, um Gina's absolutely right. The a lot of these notice requirements are built into
special rules that the uh uh council has to self-govern themselves. And later on in the charter, you're going to see where it says that the chart that the council can create their own rules and that's why they they have the power to do so. Um, I kind of understand what when we're looking at the charter and
we're looking at all these, you know, sections and and kind of uh the Bill of Rights really what the Bill of Rights is intended to do is to protect the residents kind of from from us, right, from the people who are being governed. Um, and so you you want to create these
kind of broad, you know, uh, let's say, rights and the right to have the budget and to be able to see it, but you've got to be careful where you don't hamstring the administration and and the council and then they're forced to have to take a certain action because it's in the charter and and and now they don't have
that that flexibility. So, I kind of understand where um the the chair is is is saying that. The reason I'm also saying this is as we move forward in the charter, we've got to think broadly as to what are we looking at and what is the reason that it's it's placed in the
charter, why it exists. Uh and so sometimes, yes, we may want to tweak it. Uh but we've got to be careful and not to create um circumstances that are so just wanted to put that on the record. >> Thank you,
Council Member. Anything else? No, we're on we're now on the Citizens Bill of Rights. >> I I I'd like to uh I'd like to opine on that and and kind of give a little bit of of my perspective. Right. >> So, I I I definitely think that the town
manager has um and always has a version of the budget uh that gets released with the agenda. There's, you know, in practice, a lot of other things end up happening. Um, and during the budget process, one of the things that happens is, especially on the on the revenue
side, a lot of those revenue figures fluctuate. And sometimes that process is a daily thing, right? You might get a better projection for for what the uh the revenue is going to be for this tax or that tax or or whatnot. And so, state
law also requires that the balance that be voted on be a a balanced budget, right? So every time you have a change to that revenue number, staff then has to go back and change other things. There there have been numerous times where there there's never been a time to
my recollection that staff hasn't produced at least a version of the budget uh by the time that the agenda is is released. But often times even between that time and the time that the budget hearing is is held, there's tweaks and changes that happen and there
tends to be an updated version of the budget which is what ends up being uh voted on. So I I think we we want to be careful that we don't hamstring, you know, staff into the the version that gets published the agenda is what must be voted on. And in the budget process,
there's a lot of of notice requirements. there's a lot of um timeline and and calendar type uh requirements that have to be held. It has to be done in two readings that it has to be notice has to be put on the trim. So there's there's a
lot that goes into it. Um I I don't necessar I I see the in the intent of of doing it. I don't necessarily think that being more prescriptive here is going to lead to a more transparent budget. I think you're you're going to get a budget regardless. Um so that that
that's just my my perspective. >> Right. Thank you. So >> once again and building on Tony's um input here. So the object of this is so that the public has a good understanding of where the budget is so they can come and make comments on it. He says that
rarely is the published budget the one that they're voting on. That's a problem for me because how can the public, you know, spend the time to do it and then wait for the council meeting and then after public comments are already made then they can't retort to anything. So,
so now we're dealing with a situation where the documents provided are no longer valid for the people to under the bill of rights to understand what's going on. >> Comments anybody? I mean, m >> Mr. chair, if I if I may, and and kind
of going on what the vice former vice mayor Fernandez uh stated, >> the budget, it's a process, right? So, it's it's a process that starts uh way early in the uh early to mid summer. But what they're
talking about here in this item is specifically the last two steps in the budget, which are the two budget hearings, right? Those are both in September. By the time we get there, we have a the budget that is approved on first reading at the first budget hearing in
September is the the numbers that we have. But to the vice uh mayor's point, there are sometimes revenue estimates that because we get a lot of revenues from the state, we get revenue uh from the uh county sometimes in the entire
process that may start in early to mid summer. by the time we get to September and we have those two votes, those same exact uh revenue estimates can change two to three times easy. So, but when you when they when we publish something
uh let's say for the first budget hearing that is usually in the first half of September when we publish that and it's advertised that's the best numbers we have at that moment. Now, from first reading to second reading, it's going to change because the council is going to take action at the first
budget hearing. Uh there's going to be revenue estimates that may be modified that may get uh updated and all of those will be presented in the second budget hearing. The second budget hearing when we publish numbers in anticipation of the second budget hearing, those are the best numbers and most accurate numbers
that we have at that time. >> So sometimes if you do that advertising too far in advance, you're you're opening yourself up to more of those numbers being being changed in the interim. >> And the other the other issue is when they're up there on the deis, they
publish numbers, but then they change their minds. They listen to public comments. They listen to each other because there's there's, you know, uh the sunshine law. You you guys can't talk they can't talk to each other uh unless they're in the sunshine. So you got to be careful when you do something
like that that you don't tie their hands to debate and and make it so that they have no wiggle room or no decision. They are the policymaking body. They have to advertise this is the budget. This is where we're at so far. But you can't limit them to
have debate and change their mind. And I'm telling you this stuff is it is really complicated. And this is a small town and it is really complicated and things are happening and then all of a sudden we find out other things and literally in real time you'll see the budget change. So you have to be careful
when you advertise something that you don't tie the council's hands. >> Yeah. And a lot of the timelines um commissioner about a lot of the timelines are dictated by state law. There's a state law that's the truth and millillage uh law the trim law that is stipulated and a lot of the timelines
when you have to do this when you have to do that they're all stipulated now we can be you know we can do more than that but a lot of the minimum timelines and sometimes the timelines are you have to do it between this date and that day so many days so it's it's very exact and that's why some of these things have to
be done in a certain way >> uh so if you couple the state law the truth and millillage law and then the council uh rules that we have to uh publish agendas uh 6 days before the uh the actual uh meeting day. That is how we
get to where our our current practice. >> The the county a few years back had to redo their budget hearing, I think, because they made a mistake and and I forgot what the nature of the mistake was or whatever, but they literally had to come back and redo it all all over again
and and it's happened in a few other jurisdictions that we're familiar with. >> Mr. Chairman, another thing, give me one second. >> I'm so sorry, >> please. Um, Commissioner Bennett, but one of the things that I wanted to to bring to uh, Commissioner Abad's attention is number 12. Number 12, I
think, is really important, uh, the quarterly budget comparisons because one thing is the budget, but the other thing is how that budget relates to, you know, the actual reality of the town. And, and this is something where maybe there's wiggle room to make it even more transparent. I don't know. But I think
this is pretty neat that we actually have this where on a quarterly basis the town manager has to make these reports and show exactly where the town is in comparison to the budget that it adopted. So I just I want to bring that that point across. >> Thank you, Mr. Bennett. >> Yeah. Uh,
>> then I'm going to make a motion to amend the under budgeting that the management will make every effort to have accurate information in a timely manner to allow uh public participation of the member of the town of Miami Lakes. >> All right. Do we have a second to that
motion? >> Really? >> Could you repeat your motion, please? motion is that on budgeting on on the one that you're speaking with that the town of Miami, excuse me, the management of the town of Miami Lakes will make every effort to
provide accurate information in a timely manner to allow the people of Miami Lakes to accurately assess the budget. Something along those terms. It's just basically that they will make every effort to get it here in a timely manner so that there's sufficient abilities for
the public to participate in the budget process. Is that motion succinct enough? Madam clerk, you have that. Okay. All right. Do we have a second to the motion? >> I'll second for discussion. >> All right. It's been seconded for discussion and I'll open up for
discussion. >> Oh, good. >> Through the chair. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Um, just to bring some perspective into the matter. Um during the budget process during the summer there are significant amount of meetings there are workshops and the budget is
kind of like a living breathing thing that changes all the time. So I know for the new council members it's a it's a bumpy ride. there's there really isn't ever a concrete budget except the one that gets voted on and even that one will change monthtomonth depending on
you know variations in revenues or new projects or even emergencies that that come about. So I I think that the language is fine that that management should make you know their best effort. Um, but it it's never going to be realistically a document that's going to be concrete where the public can come
and say, "Okay, this is going to be the budget for the entire year. It's just it it's it's an unrealistic expectation." >> That's why I put in the language of >> good commissioner. >> I'm sorry that language their best effort in a timely manner. I mean, you know, once again, that the best effort
is all we could hope for from anybody. That that's why I put it in that in that language. You just we want it we want to make sure the public knows that the information that's being provided in public meetings is as upto-date and accurate as possible so they can make those decisions.
>> That that last sentence that you said sounds like a way more important thing that we need to make sure is in the So I' I'd like to maybe revisit this and and come up with something that sounds like that. >> Mr. Chair, I I wanted to make an end point
>> that I think is important >> that the that and and I work with different municipalities and different jurisdictions and I got to say something about our town which is pretty neat. >> We're so transparent that we actually have our checkbook online. You can see the checks as they're being made online.
All of them any any resident. Uh and I think that that's something that shows how transparent I think our our staff and and government is. So just want to put that out. >> All right. Thank you. Do we have any other uh discussion items or anyone else have for discussion?
>> All right. Um so at this point I I don't know if there was spec there wasn't specific language that you wanted to keep in in in your part of your motion. I know it was a concept I believe >> I'm going to withdraw my motion at this time to be revisited at the next meeting and maybe I can uh narrow the language a
little bit more and that way mostly I really want everything discussed among us. I I know it sometimes is difficult when I make motions for discussion I'm hoping we'll discuss it. It may not be voted up or down I mean voted up but at least it should be discussed by this commission. And that's what's important
to me that any idea provide presented is discussed whether we accept it or not subject to this commission as as a whole. >> Right. Well, note your motion with withdrawn and I and appreciate your comments and I I can guarantee you is what I've reassured is I'm here to have the dis these discussions. It's great
discussions for us to have. Um you know our charter is very very important to not only us but to our town and we want to make sure we have a full discussion about all these items and I look forward to seeing the proposal. if you could have that, you know, some type of language propo prepared and sent in advance so that way we can uh see it in
advance and that we can have a a more in-depth discussion on the actual language that you're proposing. >> Well, it was Commissioner Abbad here who brought it up. I'm just clarifying, but you know, perhaps he'll have uh something to provide also. Thank you. >> Absolutely. I welcome it from from anyone from the from the from the commission.
>> Mr. Chair. >> Yes. And also anybody from this commission that has an idea, conceptual idea about a certain section or a whole article and you want to uh have uh staff input or staff uh help to create a redline document that'll be something
easier for you guys to assess here on the day. We'll be more than happy to make, you know, staff available to any of you, you know, on a obviously not violating sunshine, but we'll make staff available to any of you between meetings to work on any of these and we'll help you uh put that together so that you have something concrete to assess at
your following meeting at the next meeting. >> Thank you, Mr. Manager. >> I just want to make a point of parliamentary procedure like there is a motion on the floor so it does belong to >> He withdrew his motion and I accepted it to withdraw. >> Okay. >> So, if you all want to vote on the withdrawal because it really does belong to the body. >> Okay. So
>> even with withdrawal. >> So we had to vote on it even though he withdrawn it. >> That's fine. >> If he withdrew it, that's fine. >> He withdrew it. Yes, he did withdraw it and I accepted it. >> All right. Um so moving on. Is there any other discussions on any other uh
proposals on the language and we're in the citizens bill of rights? >> Yes. >> Thank you. Um I wanted to discuss with this body uh number three public records. I know that there are uh moments there have been moments where
there have been extensive public records requests and they're costly to the town because of the staff time and there is I believe a statute that allows us to charge fees for but it's not written in the charter. So I would like to
entertain the idea of perhaps adding some sort of language that says subject to reasonable fees or something of that to that extent because there are residents that have been I guess surprised by the fact that there may be a fee or there might be >> you know it's kind of like the federal
law then the state law then the municipal right so the state law uh as Lorenzo said earlier is superior to our charter so we guide ourselves when there is like an or ownorous request, we always guide ourselves by whatever the state law permits,
>> right? So, is that something that should be included in the language or is that >> I think it's already there because state law already allows for it. So, I I don't believe that it's that spe that that level of specificity is required in in the but and I will say is I'm very familiar with the chapter 119 and public
records request as I you know as in my my personal capacity uh and I will tell you that yes, it does agree 100% with the town manager. it is already set forth in state law. Not only that, but there's also guidance in both statutes as well as opinions that have been
issued um by the state on the reasonable and how that's calculated and when you can and cannot be charging uh fees and there's a lot of those determinations. So I know that that's already set forth in state law and then you know but it's obviously the the point of it uh of the chapter
1119 and charging the cost is obviously so it doesn't become a burden on the public which is what it really is. So they make those determinations on their basis whenever they get the records request whether or not there's going to be an invoice uh prior to the production of any type of records. Um, I don't think it necessarily needs to be in the
the in the citizens bill of rights. Um, you know, to the extent if you want to add, you know, as provided for in applicable law and you could add something such as that, but I think it's implied in what's in there right now. >> Understood. I I received a push back as a as a council member when when there
were fees assessed. So, I just didn't know if it was if if it would be prudent to include some some sort of language, perhaps something referring to to the statute so that it's at least transparent so that the residents understand that yes, they are they are supposed to be receiving anything that
they request, but it has to be reasonable in in time or they have to pay for the time that it takes to put it together. >> Sure. >> Mr. Chair, >> me one second and I'll go back to you and just go ahead. So if a large public
records request is made, is the party that made that request then notified upon that receipt of that request that >> we have to give them an estimate before >> they're they are given. >> Yeah, we give them an estimate when it's a large overthe-top uh request and we
give them an estimate before and then they have to once they know how much is the estimate then they give us the green light whether to proceed. >> So that was my question. They have the ability then to withdraw that request. or modified or whatnot under the Viet. >> Sure. Go ahead. >> Yeah. As someone who rarely gets public
records, right, Gina? The um uh one of the one of the issues that you know that was a hindrance on some some documentation was they wanted to include attorneys fees to review public records that the public records indeed was reviewed by an attorney and we had to pay attorneys fees. I found that
unacceptable. Public records are just that. They're public records. whether an attorney views it or not is irrelevant and shouldn't even be concluded. Uh copying costs are part of the law, excuse me, are part of the law. I understand that. Obviously, you can also charge for um our town clerk's time to
gather the records and and I understand that. But, uh the uh including of attorney's fees is ownorous to anybody who wants transparency. >> Sure. I I'll start off and then I'll ask for the town attorney to to chime in. But I I know from my experience, it's
the way that the statute of chapter 119 refers to as a special service charge. It doesn't designate what that special service charge, but it can include uh it's a variety of costs. It could be, you know, if you're doing microfishes, you're copying film, if you're copying photographs, those are special fees with the attorneys. I do know that there are
times that records are requested that need to be reviewed by an attorney as opposed another individual because there may be you know if you have records that may be subject to some type of litigation privilege as it's an ongoing type of thing the attorneys would have to review that and have that aspect of it and then it's the town's
determination as to hey look what are we going to charge as to that and they put that into their invoice but I'll defer over to for the exact practice of the town to the town attorneys. >> No what you said is absolutely on point 100% a chapter 119.071 071 I believe is an huge august if you read it the
exemptions uh and things that you have to redact uh is is extensive and it gets worse you know I think it gets even more and more as uh technology advances you have also another set of statutes that deal with anything having to do with technology infrastructure so you have to
be very very careful what is released to the public you have things that are exempt you have things that are privileged and that's why it requires the attorney to be able to review it >> well then you can't give one Yeah, let me finish. >> I can tell you in my 13 years, and Gina, if you recall different, I don't believe
I've ever charged an attorney's fee for someone. But let me tell you what has happened to us. We've had firms that we litigate with in actual litigation send us public records requests on the matter that we are litigating.
That has been done. and then I've got to take the time to go through all of that to to take out all the privileged matters and everything else. So, just as a policy, I don't think we've done it.
And if I have, it's so rare that I don't remember it in 13 years or whatever it is. But do not let go of that weapon. >> Yeah. >> Uh the other the other problem I've had is people have said, uh, you know, want my cell phone records?
Well, that's fine, but that takes time and that takes a lot of time because the cell phone company does not give you your name, the the phone numbers of your contacts. You've got to go through your contacts and each one and figure it out.
That takes time. Uh, and they've done it to to all of you at one point or another, and they will. Um, and then I've got to review it and everything else. So, I I I agree with you that it shouldn't it shouldn't be used as a weapon against
transparency. That's not fair, but we also need to be able to protect ourselves, too. So, it's it's a tricky issue. >> Sure. I'll go ahead, Miss Commissioner Bennett. >> Yeah. Well, that's essentially right. I mean, unfortunately, before our town attorney was our town attorney, uh
public records requests were blocked. Well, let's just say they were ownorous in order to get from the um previous administration um sending me bills for over $1,000 for public records. Now, once again, if the definition of public records isn't a
public record, >> you know, that's that's that's what the one of the issues you got to deal with. So, the answer is no. That has not happened to me recently. But I do want I do want to note that that is can be used as a weapon to prevent transparency. >> Yeah. you know, within our town. So, we
might want to revisit that and maybe not so much as open it wide open to to cause problems for our legal staff, but to basically, you know, allow for a certain amount of uh leniency to get public records. As I said, so far I have never
been denied anything I've requested. >> Sure. >> Thank you. And and I did want to just comment just briefly on the on this topic is because while I haven't made a public records request to the town so I'm not full fully familiar of the the whole process as I have been doing public records for over 20 years. So I have extensive experience litigating
many many cases uh and have appellet opinions on this on this issue. So I know it very very well. Um but I do want to say is that you know as uh the town attorney had said you know when they go through while whether he may or not may not uh bill for that information that's
his choice uh with his practice but I can tell you is that you know when an attorney is reviewing and the town is being assessed for fees for his time in review if he does build a town you know the town should not be burdened uh with having to absorb that unless it it
decides to if the council wants to go ahead and say hey look you know what we're going to wave it no matter what it cost us for our attorneys That's a that's a choice for the town. Um, and that's provided for in the Lloyd. It gives the flexibility to the to the entity to make that determination as to when uh they want to assess those fees, how much they're going to assess. Uh,
but it can't recoup anything obviously anything more than what the actual expense is going to be. It has to be reasonable uh in light of what the records are, you know, the statutes and there's very there's clear case law uh a lot of it over the years of how that goes and how that's assessed. Um but
nonetheless I I think you know if there is any other type of proposal with regards to this public records aspect of it you know it's it's something I think should be addressed directly with the town council um if there's any challenges by anybody. Uh but nonetheless you know the the chapter 119
also provides uh remedies for an individual citizen that believes that uh that they're not being receiving their their records requests in accordance with chapter 119. So, is there any other discussion? Any anything else from the town attorney on that m item? >> No, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
>> Okay. Any other discussions on this public records? >> Okay. All right. Um if there's no I I had two items that I just really wanted to address in the citizens bill of rights. Uh first going over to um number
seven. Uh this is just more from my reading of the information and I want to get an initial clarification from the town attorney is that in number seven talking about the no unreasonable uh postponements is not necessarily about the specifics of the actual of what's
going on in that section. However, it's the references to meeting at the beginning and then changing of the language from meeting to hearing. As I understand it, when I read it, I compared it to what the county has in their template, citizens bill of rights. They do change from meeting to hearing.
Um, as I'm reading it, I believe that we may want to have them take out the hearings and replace it for meetings throughout uh for consistency purposes cuz there's a difference between a meeting and hearing is my understanding, but I'd like to hear from the town attorney on that. >> You you're correct, Mr. Chair. Um
there's two types of thing of let's say items that are heard uh by uh the governing board. One of them are legislative in nature. You know those are your ordinances or your regular resolutions. Uh some of them uh if it's an ordinance may require a public hearing. That means that in order to
pass a legislation there needs to be a input from the uh from the public. And so that's why it's called a public hearing. Now there's other types of hearings that are quasi judicial nature and those are completely where the council is wearing basically a judge's hat uh and they're making decisions
based on the weight of the evidence that's being presented to them. Uh and those are hearings but not all matters not all meetings for instance this is a meeting but this is not a public hearing. Uh so I I see your point. I think having as public meeting is more expansive than using the word hearing.
>> Okay. Uh, with that, I'm going to make a motion that in number seven that we replace the word hearing as it appears, I believe, twice with the word meeting. Uh, in light of what, you know, the town attorney's comments. Uh, that's my motion. >> And I'll second it.
>> There's been a second. Is open for discussion? >> Maybe. >> Dr. Bennett, go ahead. >> Yeah. All right. So, so basically it's you just want to change it from hearing to a meeting. Meaning would it be a hearing if it's quasi judicial and a meeting if it isn't? Is that what is that the implication here
>> Mr. D attorney? >> So ba basically uh commissioner Bennett what happens is that not all items that are being heard are in the form of a hearing but every item is in the form of a public meeting. So public meeting is a lot more expansive and encompasses
everything including hearings. >> Okay. So and would there be any restriction on an individual's rights by changing that language? I I think it it clarifies that it covers every meeting, not just the hearings. >> Okay. >> Yes. And I'll say that that that was kind of when I was reading it, it looked
to me to be more of a limitation by having hearing versus meeting. Um like I said is I I looked at the county's uh the county's template that they have on here and they have it just as it's written here. They have the distinction between the meeting and hearing. I don't know if it was on purpose or whatnot,
but you know, that was my preference is that it be more general, that it be meetings and that it and it runs so that way it does mirror it and it's more expansive. >> Yeah. I just want to make sure that the Bill of Rights is intact to protect our citizens. I mean, that's the only reason I want to make sure there's no uh
mechanical changes essentially. It's more of a technical change, it sounds >> any other >> I know we're discussing this a little bit more than it probably needs to be. I just want to be clear. >> Not a problem. >> Thank you. >> Yes, Fernandez. >> Yes. I I I have a question and I it may open a bigger box but um it it would
really help me understand the process. So uh assuming that we decide to go forward with these changes, what's the next step? Does this become a a ballot item? Does this become only an individual ballot item to to clean this
up? Is it a valid item per section? I I I I I want to kind of see what that finished product looks like. Um so that I I I kind of know how to >> lay out my motions as well. >> Okay. Well, I don't I think in the context of this, if we can have it
limited as to the pending motion and then obviously with a broader context of for general motions if town attorney, >> so the items that you're voting on will be brought forth uh for the the residents to vote on. So yeah, um that's something that
as we move forward and as we're making these motions and we're kind of tweaking it, we'll get to the point where we'll come up with the questions that are going to be put up on the ballot. I think at this point, uh I think the mission of this board should be to figure out what are the things you want to fix. Let's address all of those and
then, you know, later before we conclude as as a board, we'll figure out how we're going to lay out those questions. >> Okay. Does that make sense? >> And so, Mr. town attorney. So as I'm understanding is so what we're doing now is we're from a conceptual point to as much as possible with as much
specificity we'll be saying hey look these are the changes we want to move forward with and that at the towards the end of our last couple of meetings is where we're going to start drafting the actual language that will be proposed and say hey look this is for each item this is what the language and then we
will once again vote as a body uh to make the final determination as what the language is going to be going onto the ballot after obviously legal sufficiency to as well. >> That's correct. >> Okay. >> All right. Any other questions or discussions on the item? All right. Uh so I'm going to move forward is I'm
going to call for a vote. All in favor of the motion say I. >> I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Seeing none, the motion passes. All right. Second uh that I have is as to this will be into letter B which is on on my page nine. I'm not
sure of the other pages but it's letter B. Oh, sorry, not letter B. It is letter C, the remedies for violations section. Uh, in that section, uh, I'd like to,
you know, I'd like to move to change the word article that's found in two sections at the beginning and at the end with a bill of rights. Uh, the reasoning being uh is that this is not an article. The Citizens Bill of Rights
is not is not designated as an article. Um, and rather it is the Bill of Rights. And so I think it correctly reflects what this statement states, which is uh in that language is any suit by a citizen alleging a violation of this
bill of rights filed in Miami County Circuit Court, etc. Um, and I think it it best designates it because this is not an article within our charter the way it's written. Uh, so that's my motion is to modify to replace the word article for the word for the phrase bill
of rights. >> Second. >> There's a second. I'll open it for discussion. Seeing no discussion, all in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Seeing none, that passes. Uh, I have nothing else on the citizens bill of rights. Uh, any last discussion
items from anyone else on citizens bill of rights? All right, we're going to go move forward with section 7 C. the discussion of article one the corporate existence form of government boundary and powers. Uh I'll open it up for any discussion items or any motions or to or
any proposals. Go ahead. >> Okay. All right. So I'd like to let's discuss if we can on article on the um excuse me section 1.2 form of government just to make sure. So currently uh we
have what's known as a council manager form of government in which a council is elected. They then vet and um appoint a town manager. We just heard some comments that they want to go ahead and u possibly go to a strong mayor form of government which I'm assuming would take
on the role of the manager. I'm I'm not quite sure what they're going to do to find a strong mayor, but I'm assuming that that's basically it. That he'll have the mayor would have the power to hire and fire. Um, interesting. They I I we we had this come up back in 2008 and
2010. It was voted down obviously. That's why we didn't even change the form of government. Um, I'd like to go ahead and discuss a little something different though. Right now, uh, as of 2000, we do have what's called the council manager form of government. the
manager is appointed appointed position by the town council you know and they ven him and determine you know uh his qualifications and that he would become a part of the town car the town council excuse me so the the elected town
council appoints the manager with a majority vote now Mr. and Mr. attorney if stop me if I'm wrong in anything. If basically of the seven members, if four members want the town manager, the manager gets the position. It's a majority vote. So, he's appointed by
four members. Am I I hope I'm correct. >> That's correct. >> Okay. So, historically, um the manager does the day-to-day operations. So basic most of our um our elected officials are busy taking along their lives and they're doing this more of a voluntary
basis and they allow they want the manager to go ahead and take care of the nitty-gritty the day-to-day things of running the town. That's basically how that was set up originally in 2000. All right. Um, one of the things um that um
the town manager uh does um is that he goes ahead and he basically hires and fires employees and he goes ahead and directs employees and so on and so forth. Okay. So in um the um as long as the four members of the town council are
satisfied with the manager's um duties, he keeps his job. It makes no sense. obviously has a contract also which you know has provisions in it if he's let go or kept all that. So now um assuming no malfeasants or anything like that. Okay.
So now um I'm going to make um kind of a throw out an idea for discussion. I'm hoping that we would morph the town manager's position from the manager to more of a controller or controller. And the only difference would be is the manager would be directly elected to
that position. It wouldn't be just four members of the council doing it, but the people in general doing it. And it's not as radical as it sounds. It's not. The clerk of the courts is elected, the property appraisers elected, the tax collector is elected, and most recently
our sheriff because Lynn met her um Rosie Coderos Stutz was elected. So these are very important positions. they require qualifications and so on and so forth. So by doing that it makes the it allows for the town manager to be
removed from the politics of the town because he no longer becomes um I won't say the word duty bound that's not right influenced by a majority of the town council so much as now by the people of Miami Lakes the general electorate. Now,
once again, I at first I was a little hesitant to bring this up, but all of a sudden, I heard about strong mayor and I feel relieved because my proposal is a little bit more uh easier, more subtle to the change of the town. It doesn't require a radical change. All it
requires is a change basically to make an elected position. And of course, the town manager or controller, whatever it be, would have the same, you know, privileges, contracts, and so on and so forth. Uh the town would decide if it's a two-year or four-year term. They'll set contract limit. They'll do all of
that. But the position would be an elected position. Um one of the problems with strong mayors is you have to have a mayor that is elected and qualified to run the town. That's that's a tall order. There aren't too many of those available as far as I've seen. On the
other hand, you know, uh the mayor having a highly qualified elected town manager would now remove the politics from his duties because his responsibility isn't to four members of the town council. It becomes to the people of Miami Lakes. It's uh it's not
a radical idea, but it would help removing any I'm going to use the word misconceptions that may have occurred in the past. Um, in 2016, uh, when I was the chair, we were reeling from a mayor that was arrested by, uh, the FBI. He was later acquitted
for the record, but he was arrested. And we at that time were trying to deal with, you know, how can we amend the charter to try and have a a more, you know, uh, safeguards to allow this? We did the best we could, but once again,
we're still limited by the law. So what I was hoping we could do is um the idea of uh bringing about a slight change to our to our form of government by just allowing the uh the management position to be an elected position. Um I'd like
to throw that out there for discussion. I have no motion at this time because I'd really like to hear what this commission has to say. >> So let me I I'll start off. I like to ask you is what form of government do you propose that to be? What would be a title? It would be a council controller where where the controller is an elected
person, you know, for it, but it's still the the council would still direct that controller, >> you know, with the with what >> the council controller and Mr. Attorney's job would not be in any way subject to a majority vote of I was just asking for
the form how you would title it, how we would >> I guess we would have council if you will. They they used to use terms like comproller in like cities like Chicago and New York and all that. I don't know if we that language we can work out but essentially the manager would be the same almost the same total duties except
it's an elected position. >> Okay, Mr. Town attorney, do you have any I I know it just was proposed now. I don't know if you have any thoughts on what that form of government if there's an actual title to that form of government. >> So So two thoughts. First, I've never really heard of that form of government.
Not at least in South Florida. I don't know of any single municipality that has a form of government that you're you're suggesting. Most form of governments are council manager or there's a strong mayor. The attributes that you're talking that that I'm hearing you you
mention about this controller are pretty much what a strong mayor is. There's there's also a quasi kind of strong mayor where they have some attributes of a strong mayor but not all of them and they are then not part of the elected body. the the difference between and in
and a an example of that would be like the city of Miami and the city of Miami, city of Halia which is strong. It's called an executive mayor, right? Form of government. So you've got uh and I'm and I'm thinking now because I I I'm I'm listening to the question and I'm thinking it through is you have council
manager form of of government uh council mayor uh manager form of governments where the mayor maybe has a little bit more power. you have executive mayor form of government and you have the strong mayor. Uh in the strong mayor and in the executive one of the key attributes is that the mayor himself is
not part of the legislative body. Uh they are outside they are acting essentially as a manager. Uh they they have the role of being uh basically the head of government uh for for purposes of ceremony. So, just like the mayor here is the head of government for
ceremony, but then they have the attributes of the manager uh as well. Um I I assume and I'm thinking out loud that you you could have I guess someone who is the head of government and then kind of the the mayor of a vice mayor,
another role that but I'm I'm not sure how that would really work or or really make sense. the the the main the main focus here is that once you with with strong mayor forms of government is that that person is not necessarily um how can I say beholden to the the commission
or or the council. They are separate. They are just there to to be the head of government and to and to run the day-to-day operations. And in most strong mayors formal governments, the mayor can even talk to the council members. Uh there's no breach of sunshine for them to do so because again they they don't vote on on any item.
Does does that makes make sense? >> Yeah. What you're describing obviously, you know, are certain governments that were set up. Um, this one would be very similar as I said, is just like like for example, the property appraisers elected position. I mean, you could appoint a
property apparent. So, the mayor could do that if she chose to. They decided to make it a an elected position. Uh, I'm sure there is reasoning as to why they decided to make it, you know, the tax collector, the supervisor of elections, all of these as elected positions versus appointed positions. I'm guessing, and
once again, I don't know the intent of why they did it that way, like the supervisor of elections, well, you want somebody supervisor elections to have any type of party affiliation in any of the elections. So, what I'm saying is for our manager, I would like to see that position basically you let let him
run for that position. Now, would it be a strong like a strong mayor without being an actual mayor? Um, we would have to discuss that. That's something that would be that this this commission should discuss. Um, what I really want of this is to make sure that our
manager is under no political pressure and I have to really stress this because there was an incident and we all know about it in which, you know, he was probably we don't know the circumstances. I have the I have the news articles with me. I'll be placing him in the public record. They'll be fine. But what I really want to
understand is I want to make sure that he is not pressured to do anything that would be in non-compliance with the laws or the department heads. It's very important especially say our building department
with construction standards that you know those standards are met. And I didn't want any type of pressure from anybody to the manager to make a department head feel like they're under pressure to change something they don't want to do. So by making the town
manager beholden to the entire, you know, body of Miami Lakes, it eliminates that. In other words, they're elected four-year term, two-year term, whatever the the council wants to do. And at which point there would be a contract. It would be written and it would all be
determined and then that person will decide do they want to run for this office. In other words, uh who wants to run for property appraiser? Obviously somebody who's who's you know um you know qualified but you know he decides he looks oh this is this is a voluntary thing I'm not going to do this or
there's a salary involved and so on and so forth. So, Commissioner Bennett, it's I I think, you know, from what I'm understanding from hearing from, you know, the town attorney, it's what you're explaining is kind of more of the strong mayor aspect of it because that is already an elected official. Um, you know, if that's what you're proposing, I
think we would go down that route. Um, you know, in my personal opinion, I think, you know, just because a person's elected doesn't pull the politics out of anything. I think it actually makes it more of politics because now you're beholden you know that individual be will they'll they'll has to now respond to everybody in the community and in
electoral process and you know and just again you know just as comments is you know there is issues with anybody feeling that a town manager is being pressured to do something. I don't believe that any town manager anywhere is going to do anything that's illegal knowingly do anything illegal. uh
there's processes and inspector general's offices, there's, you know, the the state attorney's office, you know, there's public corruption units that they look into those aspects of it. And I I don't I don't believe that uh any town manager would ever be pressured to do anything illegal or to actually do something. They may be pressured, that's
a different story, but to actually follow through with it, it'd be a different story. Um but nonetheless, uh I I I think is important to just, you know, what I was referring to initially is that it sounds more of a strong mayor. I think there's already a process for it. You know, if that's the if that's what you're going to propose and
I'm saying you don't have to do it right now. >> Um but we can think about it. You know, obviously we had comments that have been received as well. Uh and I want to review that >> from uh from you know the citizens that that submitted those requests and those those discussions about changing our
form of government. Um so I I think that'll be very helpful for us. I don't think and it didn't sound like you had anything that you were proposing for today, but I know you wanted to discuss that. >> No, I just wanted this upper discussion. And it was something you once again we're trying as a commission trying to solve problems.
>> That's what this is all about. That that we can set up the rules and and I want this out there because I want to try and >> prevent a problem. >> Uh that every time this town has a problem, it's m it's millions of dollars, >> okay, of taxpayer money. And it's
something that if we can head that off at the past, so to speak, we can go ahead and, you know, basic basically prevent a problem before it happens. >> All right. Thank you. Go ahead, Commissioner Fernandez. >> And I think Councilman Herzburg hit it right on the head. I think that issue is
is such a big issue that we should probably tackle, you know, in a in a much much more um noticed fashion focused in on that issue. I think that's an issue that we can probably discuss for 3 or 4 hours on its
on its own and and maybe still not feel satiated about. So I that would be my preference to tackle that. I'm I'm very interested to know more about this uh this hybrid system. But uh whether it be that and look I I can tell you I I'll
offer a little bit of perspective now. I think one of the more frustrating parts of of the system that we have now is the the way that it works to to your point, you you have four council members that can hire, fire a manager, right? I had
the the distinction of serving with a a great manager, a great council, a great mayor. Everything was fantastic. Kumbaya, that doesn't always happen. In fact, generally it it doesn't. Um, so one of the complicated things is
the only thing or at least it feels like the only thing that the council can do is hire or fire the manager. really what the the problem is that there isn't more granular ways of making sure that and of
keeping the manager accountable and making sure that the manager is in line with the the direction that the council is giving him. I think that's that to me as as an elected official was was the bigger um rub seeing that person elected by by a majority of the people. I mean,
if you got to be beholden to someone, if we got to choose who you're going to be beholden to, I I can go to sleep at night knowing that it's the the people, right? That's that that's the one that I'm most comfortable that that's the box that I'm most comfortable choosing. But I think that's a it's a very long and
and intricate uh conversation that I'd be more than happy to to have with all of you guys later. >> Thank Thank you, Commissioner Fernandez. So, I think at this point is what we'll go ahead and do is if uh in the event that you want to have that more discussion, please make sure to share that over to the clerk so that way we can have that discussed and added to a
future agenda item. I'm not you know I definitely want to have the conversation if that's what this this body wants to have and if we hear from the residents and they have some type of proposal. So, uh we'll move on to any other uh proposals with regards to um the section
article one or article one. All right. If not hearing from anyone else, I have one item that I wanted that I did want to propose. It says to section 1.3, the corporate boundary section is my understanding is that figure one, the town map is obviously
it's much older and our town has uh changed not necessarily as the boundaries, but the actual u the streets that have been added. Uh there's new developments out on the west side uh including some new ones. And I I wanted to ask from the town staff, uh the town
attorney or even the town manager, do we is there an updated map of the town of Miami Lakes that we could replace this figure one? >> Yeah, it doesn't really change the boundaries, the perimeters, right? It just it just may be a better picture of more updated, more development >> because I know there's a new there's new
communities on the on the west side that I think we should be reflecting in it. >> Yes, obviously it's dynamic and every day it changes, but we we do have one and we have large ones like that one up there. We had those done two or three years ago and it already shows uh I think that one hopefully does uh shows
the development of Sattorii and some of the more recent uh developments. >> Absolutely. So I'll go ahead and I'm going to make a motion to >> That's the old one. >> Sure. >> And so I'll go ahead and I'm going to make a motion to replace uh figure 1 in section 1.3 of the town map with the most updated at the time when we go
ahead and we move forward in case there's been more changes by the time uh we get down later this year. Uh so that's going to be my motion. Is there a second? I'd like to second uh for discussion and I do have >> go right ahead. >> Yes. So I I would also like clarification from the town attorney if
updating that map even if it doesn't include changing the town boundaries if that constitutes really a charter change or if that map can be updated ministerally. >> I'll get back to you on that. I because >> Thank you, sir. everything that's in the
in the charter that's material that you want to change needs to go back to to the people. This is kind of updating, but let me let me double check that for you. >> Okay, Mr. Manager. >> Yeah, I was just going to say because the the section of the charter that
they're talking about here, it talks about the boundaries. So, it's basically defining what the the outline, right? what's inside is probably irrelevant to the uh to the article in the or the section of this article in the charter. It's basically only defining what the ex
the perimeter is around the outside edges of the town and that is unchanged. So, uh an exhibit that shows more development. Uh the only really thing this really doesn't have a lot of development other than the actual streets. There are streets now like 87th Avenue goes all the way through. You
have the streets within Satori. So there are some updates that we can put in here. Um but it wouldn't be like a picture like that because then that is too dynamic. I mean this would be just streets. >> Yeah. Streets in here because obviously we have you know the new Palma deago that's development that's being going in
there. I believe there streets have been added as well and anything else that may be done. Um that was the purpose of >> when I looked at it and is I believe that you know that while it is I I still think it's substantive a change. I don't think ministerally. Um, you know, I'm going to defer to the town attorney and I know he's going to get back to us on
that. Um, so what I'd like to do is move forward with the motion that's still pending right now is just to have it replaced. I don't think it it change if we need to change it later on if he says, "Hey, look, you know, we can we can change it ministerally." I'd like to have also if you could give us an opinion for the next meeting is if
there's any other nonsubstantive changes that can just be done normally to the charter. I don't I'm not sure one way or the other, but if you could give us that opinion as to whether that's required to go before uh the members such as if we needed to change, you know, if there's, you know,
there's commas or there's periods that shouldn't be or any those types of like more grammatical type of things that don't change it substantively, if you could let us know about that aspect of it. Is there any other discussion as to changing of the map? >> Yeah, I just want to >> go ahead commissioner. >> Be clear on that. So I would be
concerned that if we have to send that a map to the voters, it would cause great confusion, right? Are we changing boundaries? I mean, we know our intent here doesn't mean that we're going to translate that to the voter, right? >> Yeah. >> So, I would prefer to hear uh the town attorneys before actually voting for
him, give him a chance to do his research, whatever. If it's something we can just change, I'm fine with that. If it's something you have to put in front of the voters, that's something that we really need to think about. >> Sure. And and I'll just quickly respond to that because I think it'd be I I understand that and it's a great point and I think it's what it would be
responsible for. Our purposes is when we draft the language is just make it explicitly clear. It doesn't change the boundaries. It only it clarifies to reflect the current map and the street uh locations. So go ahead, Commissioner Bett. >> No. Yeah, I mean this did come up um
because we were the thinking the town was thinking in 2008 to annex that the land west of the town that we were changing our boundaries. It it didn't pass or anything but there was discussion about that and we did discuss uh about the the boundary map. Um the
same thing that um our attorney said the boundaries are still fixed but the as far as the infill is yeah that will it is dynamic. uh if you want to update that to reflect what we currently look like, I don't have a problem with that. It just since our boundaries aren't
changing, we just have to they have to understand that we're not changing boundaries. That's why so we don't know if it's actually a commission question, which is what our attorney's going to do, or just basically just updating the map. >> Sure. >> Because the boundaries are not changing. >> Yeah. So, I think we'll go we'll have
that that answer, but I'd like to move forward with the motion just to have it replaced subject to obviously uh hearing from our town attorney as to whether or not uh it's ministerial and it doesn't need to be and we can withdraw it at the next meeting. So, I'm uh any other comments, discussions? All right. So,
I'm going to call the uh all in favor. >> I >> I >> I >> Any opposed? Seeing none, motion passes. All right. Um any other items uh that any would like to discuss with regards to article one corporate existence? Any
other proposals? All right, seeing none, we're going to be finishing. We'll finish with 17C. Now we'll move over to 70D. This is an item uh Commissioner Bennett, you've asked for us to discuss this transparency. >> So thanks. >> Um just two things. one um on the next
agenda we should have a section old business since if we're going to return to any of these things that we discussed today. So there should be a section old business in which case any of the commissioners may you know through Gina propose something that to be an old business that way we can approach it
transparency. Um once again I want this I want the commission and of course I want our town be very transparent with the people that elect the town. Um the only thing and I and I need our town attorney to help us out here because I
have the um in your doc in your package you have the town of my life's exparte communication disclosure form. Um I I did a quick modification of it just says commission member instead of council member. But I want to know if um the
actual uh resolution in 1-20 still applies to this body because once again I know we're quasi we're can we consider quasi judicial Mr. Attorney? >> You are definitely not quasi judicial. >> We are not. Okay that's fine. So go ahead. >> Yeah please.
>> Mr. Town attorney. Go ahead. >> No. Oh com. No, I just wanted I just as a quick question to the attorney. I just wanted to make sure. So, what I'm trying to say is um we just want to have a disclosure form. So, if there's any exparte communication by anybody just disclosing it, I I know we are very
honorable men and women and I know that they'll understand it. Just we don't want what happened last time, you know, it looked like backdoor communications, you know, between either council members that's going to vote on it and the commission or whatever it was. and we
just want to have it somehow disclosed to the public as a part of the public records. And I don't know if the language that's a part of the u this this official form uh is accurate for what we're trying to achieve or if it is even valid at all.
>> So this form is specific to quasi judicial matters. Uh section 286.0115 0115 is with regards to uh access to public local to to local public officials when they're dealing with a quasa judicial matter. What's a quasi judicial matter?
Uh an applicant from uh a developer is asking for uh a new you know a site plan approval, a reasonzoning. Uh they they want to construct something. Uh and so they're coming before the actual board to decide whether uh they have
sufficient um whe whether they have sufficient rights, whether whether that complies with with the ordinances of the city, whether that complies with the comp plan of the city, whether it complies to a bunch of different things, right? And so they're bringing that evidence. So when when you have private
monies that are coming into a city, uh when you have the board acting in judiciary capacity, uh when these are matters that are open to the public and and you're taking public, you want to make sure that that system is preserved as much as possible. So it's very important that if there's any exarty
communication, other words, if anybody's being influenced by outside monies, by lobbyists, by someone else to push forward the actual development, you want to put it on on the record. And so that's what 286.001 0115 stands for. You are not acting in
that capacity. You you are acting in a um I would almost say kind of a legislative capacity, but but kind of not. You're you're very unique. Why? Because all of your actions are extremely important because they're going to be uh memorialized in these
questions that are going to be put forth to the people. And at the end of the day, it's going to be the people who are going to vote on it, not not you as as as a body. Um, I would, and and kind of hear me on this. I would think that it's better, Dr. Bennett,
that that you have as much communication as you want from the council members, uh, from the public, uh, from everybody and anybody, uh, to kind of, you know, help you formulate what are those ideas that you want to put on paper because at the end, they're going to go back to the people. The people are going to vote for it anyways. it's not really going to be
uh you as as a body. You're just coming here to figure out how you can make this document, this charter uh a better document. Um so I I don't think it's a good idea to to do that for here. I mean, but that's a policy decision. You guys decide that. So I'm overstepping my my bounds my So I apologize for that. As
far as >> you're not you're not overstepping your bounds. Go ahead. >> But as but as far as uh the law that's cited here and the resolution, uh this is very specific to quasi judicial and this is not quasi judicial. >> Thank you. And just as a point of clarification, it is correct that uh the
sunshine is the the sunshine only requires us to we can't have conversations amongst ourselves, but we can have them with town council members. We can't have them with members of the public and with staff otherwise. Uh it's just amongst each other where we can't have any discussions concerning our role
here as commissioners. >> Absolutely. That's exactly what it is. >> All right. Thank you, Dr. Benner. You have anything else? >> Thank you, Mr. Attorney. That is exactly the clarification I was looking for because um you know there is there was at least on my part some confusion of exactly who we should be able to speak
to. As a matter of fact I did not accept communications from a council member because I wasn't sure and that's why I brought this before me because this is the expert communication that you use for quasi judicial. Now I understand our role is with sunshine. See this is this is why I brought this because um there
was questions about this in 2016. what we could talk to who with. >> Yeah. Well, thank you and and I would remind the commissioners and obviously, you know, if the town the town attorney also has otherwise is if you guys ever have any of those questions is is would be to direct it over to the town attorney, you can have send him an
email, give him a call, ask him whether or not a it's appropriate to have this conversation and he'll give you that pretty quick answer one way or the other. Um because we do not want to have any violations unnecessarily. Thankfully, so as we've discussed here, it seems to be pretty broad and it's just amongst each other that we can't speak to each other. I know some of you
guys may like that fact that we don't have to talk to each other but outside of this room, but none I'm just But uh is there anything else on this item that you'd like to have discussed? >> No, I just wanted to get this clarified. That's why I wanted this brought before the commission in general. It's um it
just was something that was bothering me and I wanted to make sure that we're in compliance. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you very much. Um seeing there's no items I wasn't here for it, but was there any uh additions to to our agenda? All right. Seeing there's being none, it's just a
reminder. Uh, >> what what items are you going to discuss next month? Maybe it's something that you guys >> Yes. And yeah, for the charters. So, the next uh we obviously have the article two. Uh, that one is going to be a larger section uh that se covers several
pages. Um, I don't know if we want to do two and three or if we want to just stick to two. Um, >> my preference would be just two. I I would prefer to just get through two. You can see what the preamble in the first article took.
>> Absolutely. >> And with the discussion we had and that's that's good. That's a good thing. And for all you Hurricanes fans, you know, I'm sorry. >> So, I don't think we need to take a vote necessarily on it because it's just a set, you know, what we're anticipating. We'll set that on the agenda. will be discussing article 2 and obviously any
of the discussions if anybody wants to bring up any of the issues that we discussed today with regards to the preamble of the citizens bill of rights as well as hearing from the town attorney as to the item that he was going to clarify for us. Um >> so just to clarify though >> sure because the the issue of the town manager role came up is that something
we're going to do there or we're going to wait until 3.1 says town manager. Well, it depends on how it's going to be proposed cuz if we're changing the form of government, then it would be addressed as a ma as an item in within article one. Uh otherwise, if we're going to be more specifically on the
role, not necessarily changing our form of government, uh that would be addressed in article 2. Uh but you know, obviously it's when you guys take a look at it, review it. Um, as I had said the last time is please take a look at it and if you have proposals, if written proposals of exact language that you
would like to have changed, um, it would be great so we can have them in advance and so that way we can vote on the exact language moving forward. >> So for clarification for the residents who talked about, you know, wanting something more concrete, right, on public comments, can we say that we're going to do 1.4, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4,
2.5, 2.6, and 2.7? all all >> the entire article too >> in one point >> and and and as again and and I I I don't want to beat a dead horse on it but it's you know I'm not closing it off after next meeting that we only talk about
article 2 this is going to be a living breathing but I want to have our focus to be on article two for next in addition to whatever these additional items that we're going to be addressing that we've discussed today and anything else that you guys based on any input um but nonetheless is you know from you
know for the matter of the town residences. I do encourage you guys uh everyone in the town to please just send your information. It doesn't have to be as article to uh so that way we can start thinking about it even if it's something much later on is just give it to us so that way we as commissioners can start taking a look at it and if you
have proposals please send it over to us uh through the town clerk uh so we can start taking a look at it and we can have very thorough and great conversations. Um, so hearing nothing further, >> one more just one last thing. Just I just want to make sure that we add that
section of old business that we can do this at this time. Now I can formulate. >> Yeah, that's fine. Power attorney if I may declare and try and put in language that is something that we can all understand. I just wanted to make sure that we do have that that ability to come back to his old business. Okay.
>> Sure. Absolutely. And I'll make sure that that gets added. We just didn't have any old business to be able to address today. So >> Sure. Uh, C or Commissioner Fernandez, did you do you want to say anything or no? >> I was going to make a motion to adjurnn, but >> and I'll second it. >> All in favor say I. >> I.
>> Any oppose? Saying none, we are adjourned. Thank you very much, everyone, and we will see you. What was the date? >> January 22nd. Thank you. Make