Might help if I push the button here. The House Appropriations Subcommittee on Agriculture, Rural Development, and the Department of Natural Resources will come to order. The clerk will please call the roll. Thank you, mister chair. Representative Wharton? Here. Representative Mueller? Representative Green? Representative Frost? Here. Representative DeCena? Here. Representative O'Neil? Present. Representative McKinney? Here. Sir, you have, six of I'm sorry. Five of seven members. You have a quorum. The county was Yes. Thank thank you, mister mister Clerk.
Represent senate representative. Boy, we're all having trouble here this morning, aren't we? Desena makes a motion to approve the minutes from April 16. Without objection, the minutes are approved. Alright. Today, we'll be hearing testimony from representatives of local conservation districts. We're joined by Rivka Hodgkinson. Did I get that all right? The whole thing? Wow. The whole the whole thing. Amazing. She is the executive director of the Michigan Association of Conservation Districts, and, Jerry Miller is the president of the Michigan Association of Conservation Districts, and, they'll both be presenting.
I understand, Jerry, you're gonna kick things off. If that's the case, you have the floor. Thank you, Chairman Wharton and thank you, Committee members for providing an opportunity for the Michigan Association of Conservation Districts to provide a status and update today. In addition to our Executive Director, we also have our Vice President, Steve Law, he's behind me and our Treasurer, Nancy Sigsai and also some other friends have joined us as well this morning.
But we have a short presentation, and just for memory, we are the State Association and we have 75 districts across the state and they are all members of our State Association. And with that, Rivka will share a short presentation, but with our Vice President and Treasurer, hopefully we can answer questions that you may have. So thank you. Thank you, Jerry. Thank you again to the committee for having us here. We really appreciate the opportunity.
There is a lot of text on these slides that I'm not going to read through because it's boring to sit and watch me read slides to you. But they are available for you in your perusal at your own discretion, if there's any specific details you want to review and look at. So what are conservation districts? I think a lot of this will be refresher for some of you and maybe new for some of you. Conservation districts are 75 in the state covering all 83 counties and they are the private land conservation delivery system of natural resource management services.
So that is one of the things that sets conservation districts apart is we are particularly equipped to work with private landowners, private producers, and farmers on private lands. We help fellow Michiganders conserve their land and water so our environment can be cleaner, healthier, and an economically stronger place to live. And it was authorized by the Michigan Public Act two ninety seven of 1937. So they are local units of government. They are mandated according to the Environmental Protection Act four fifty one of 1994 for
a few specific purposes, providing technical assistance to landowners, providing landowners and managers with information and educational materials, enhancing and protecting the basic ability of land to produce food and fiber, and assisting landowners and managers to make changes in land use, and encouraging effective use of methods of surface and groundwater management. And again, this extends not only to farms and agricultural producers, but every form of private landowner, including businesses and individual residences. We implement that mission or that,
objective through a wide variety of different programs at various different conservation districts. Every conservation district completes a conservation needs assessment of their local community and then utilizes that as a means to determine which programs to implement at their local conservation district. So this is just a few of the major programs that are implemented by conservation districts throughout the state. There's the M. E. A. T. Program, the Michigan Environmental Agricultural Environmental Assurance program. Of course, this is our our favorite thing in government, alphabet soup.
CSP, the Conservation Stewardship program. The EQIP program, the Environmental Quality Incentives program. The Produce Safety program, which is actually unique in Michigan. Most other states do not have a Produce Safety program the way that we do that helps landowners in a nonregulatory manner assess their produce and their, goods for private like, think about farmers markets and things like that to make sure that those foods are safe. The FAP, the Forestry Assistance Program. Michigan Envirothon, which is a youth environmental science competition that helps build the future of conservation professionals.
RCPP, the Regional Conservation Partnership Program. The WLEB Farmer Led Group for Mentoring Farmers. The CISMA, which is the Cooperative Invasive Species Management Area. A big invasive species in this area right now is the Lesser Celandine. That conservation districts have been at the forefront of leading the charge against that invasive species here locally. Soil and sedimentation permits, transition to organic partnership program, the MyFarmLink that helps encourage preserving agricultural land through succession planning and mentoring, and many,
many more. There are numerous different educational workshops and programs, tree sales, plant native plant educational workshops, mushroom workshops, so many things that help the local community connect with their land and understand how to better utilize it and manage it on an individual and a collective basis. So MACD, Michigan Association of Conservation Districts, what is our role in all this? We're the state association that represents Michigan's seventy five conservation districts. We are a nonprofit entity organized in the state of Michigan,
and we work to help strengthen conservation districts through leadership, information, representation at the state level. So things exactly like this. All of our conservation districts are very busy doing conservation district work throughout the entire state. And of course, our friends in the UP regularly remind me how long it is to drive down to Lansing. So we're very happy to be able to represent the entire state of Michigan and provide that collective leadership, as well as helping build cooperative programs between conservation districts to help conservation districts be
more effective and efficient in accomplishing their mission. Conservation districts are led by a five member elected board of directors, at each local conservation district, and they provide the locally led conservation. Like I mentioned before, they complete their their conservation needs assessments. In 2022, there were five major things identified through those needs assessment, water quality improvement, forest management, invasive species management, agricultural management, and wildlife management. So as you can see, those are very aligned with the programs that we are accomplishing.
The operations grant, which has been the primary form of funding, for conservation districts for the last three years, through MDARD, also requires districts to conduct a biannual audit and submit a board approved budget to maintain accountability. So there are multiple levels of accountability, training, and, local leadership at each conservation district and at the statewide level. We are built on partnerships. Nothing that conservation districts do would be nearly as successful without the partnerships that we have throughout the state,
both with other, agencies such as USDA, NRCS, and, of course, MDARD, who is our certifying authority for our elections, as well as partners like MSU Extension, Michigan Forest Association that we are in partnership on a forestry related grant with right now, DNR, FSA, Institute of Water Research, EGLE. And these, the Michigan Association of County Drain Commissioners, and these are just the partners that we have at a statewide level that works with all of our conservation districts. Every single district has significant partnerships in their local communities with their county,
their townships, varies from one conservation district to the next, what what is most appropriate in their county. Conservation works because Michigan's economy really requires and relies on good management of conservation resources. So we have obviously $104,700,000,000 agricultural industry here in the state. And above and beyond that, obviously, tourism as well as every other economic function in the state relies on our land, our water being healthy and managed well.
Conservation districts are uniquely able to respond to those local needs through local leadership and develop trust with the communities, farmers, and other stakeholders. We're kind of the boots on the ground that have those local relationships on the local level. Conservation district led programs create jobs, restore forest habitats, help address invasive species, build native habitats, and educate communities on sustainable land use. None of these things are accomplishable by any one person,
individual organization. It really requires education one to one on that local level. 72% of Michigan land is privately owned, and conservation districts are the avenue to reach out to those private landowners. In, f y twenty two, conservation districts just that year alone held 1,791 outreach events, reaching over a 29,000, people in the state just in f y twenty two. And we also, conservation districts attended 1,146
local government meetings. So that's, like, county commission meetings, township meetings, drain commissioner meetings, etcetera, to help build those partnerships, spread the word about conservation, and get the the programs out there and the knowledge out there. So what is the return on investment? That's always the big thing. We don't wanna just spend money to spend money. It needs to result in something at the end of the day. So according to MDARD's estimates, every $1 in the state invested in conservation district operations leverages $5.10
from other sources. So a minimum of five to one ROI. We would argue that it's even higher than that because that's just looking at the most surface level of return on investment as far as additional dollars that it's bringing in. We're helping landowners navigate complex federal programs that, you know, if the last couple months have shown us anything, it's just how complex some of those things are and how much landowners need help to navigate those programs. We are able to increase participation and success rates because you have that trusted professional
who's providing technical assistance on the ground. And when you include federal conservation funds in addition to the state funds leveraged, the return increases up to 43 for every $1 invested. So when you're looking at both state programs and federal programs, that return on investment goes up even higher. Investing in conservation districts means investing in local. Local jobs, resource protection, and ability to attract and retain skilled conservation professionals. And this is especially critical as federal staffing declines. As we're seeing a lot of the staff force being reduced to NRCS and USDA,
having those conservation professionals available in local communities is gonna become an increasing need that's only going to grow, over the coming year. Conservation practices also reduce the need for costly environmental cleanup. It just is hard to even get a grasp on how much it costs when we don't invest in conservation. Just one example, Michigan's wetlands provide an estimated $4,770,000,000 annually just in flood mitigation benefit alone.
So when you implement conservation practices on your land, you see it reduce flooding, more storm resilience, ability to have resilient agricultural environments, and many, many, many other benefits as you work down the line. And and not having to spend money on the after effects when we have clean water and when we have healthy soil, rather than paying for dirty water and and unhealthy soil. Conservation districts currently are funded from the state of Michigan through a $3,000,000
annual operational fund. Those operational grants that I mentioned before, those MDARD grants, dollars 3,000,000 sounds like a lot, but when you break it down per district, that's $40,000 per district per year. That isn't even a single FTE as far as, in real terms, the operational support that that provides for districts. Additional funding sources. So you say, well, how are districts running at all if they're only getting $40,000 a year? They're able to leverage additional funding sources, including local millages, county and township allocations, competitive state and federal grants,
private foundations, individual donors, and more. But the real key is when you have that operational funding, it allows conservation districts to grow. We've seen example after example throughout the state. When they receive operational funding, they're able to utilize that to build their district, build capacity. Because when you have a district manager and you have other foundational staff at your district that can make sure that things are continuing to run and operate and look for those opportunities for grants and look for those opportunities for funding can drive campaigns
at their local county for additional county support. They're able to grow exponentially. Without that operational support, it's very difficult to to start from something with nothing. That $40,000 has already meant a lot to districts, and it has been a huge improvement from zero, which which was the case before three years ago. But we still have a lot of room to grow. When we don't have that operational support, we have a competitive scarcity driven environment. That means not only on an individual local level, but statewide conservation efforts are limited.
Just in comparison, the other Great Lakes states have really made the taken the steps to invest in their local conservation districts, and we would love to see Michigan be right along there in comparison with our other states. So this is an this shows you the state operational funds that are provided to conservation districts in all the other Great Lakes region. Obviously, we're the lowest on the on the chart, with $3,000,000 Indiana has 4,000,000 and is right, behind us. They just recently passed to up that to 8.
So this was as of fiscal year, '23. Investing in Michigan's conservation future is is just the best money you could possibly spend because it's not only helping private landowners, but it's ensuring the natural resources that make Michigan unique and special for generations to come. Conservation districts are seeking an additional $10,000,000 in funding on top of the $3,000,000 that we've received long term. And we understand that it may take a process to to get there.
But what would that buy, basically? What is the state of Michigan paying for if we're able to increase operational funds? It will allow us to invest in hiring a full time district manager for each district, which builds operational capacity. We can hire a full time conservation planner to build that technical assistance, providing stability and support, supporting equity across the state, particularly to areas such as Wayne and Macomb that have not been successful at securing additional capacity building funding. And those areas, you know, represent a huge number of our citizens in the state that need additional support.
And supporting benefits for conservation district employees to attract and retain talented professional staff. Right now, the benefits that are provided to conservation district employees are just whatever each individual district is able to kind of come up with for each each of their programs and each of their employees. And so that means that we're not necessarily able to keep staff long term because of that lack of benefits and lack of operational support. The other thing that we wanna make sure is on your radar is we do
want to renew the Freshwater Protection Fund. This is the primary fund that provides funding for the MEAP program, as well as several other programs, including C TIDE, Clean Sweep, and all the MDARD staff that support conservation districts as well. This is the current existing funding, and we would love to see some increases in fees in order to be able to keep up with inflation and keep these programs going. There was no free increase in 2016 or 2020 when this this program was renewed.
It is being amazingly successful, and we'd like to see it continue. We're working directly with the department and with other industry leaders about what that looks like. And that's it. I have time for questions. If you do and what and like, like mister Miller stated, we have our entire executive, committee here as well to answer questions as needed. Alright. Very good. Thank you, Rivka. Jerry, I'm glad yes. We do have time for questions. Plenty of time for questions. And we'll start out the first one that comes from Rep. Green. Thank you, Mr.
Chair. I actually have sort of a question and a follow-up question probably. May I? Absolutely. Okay. So the investing in Michigan's Conservation Fund, I think is second to the last. Currently, we spend $3,000,000 want to get up to $10,000,000 Where would the 300% increase come from? I think that's a legislative issue, not a Michigan Association of Conservation District issue. But there are opportunities for some special funding out there.
I'd shared one earlier with Representative Borton. I don't know, do you want me to share that one, Rep? Sure. So our friends in Illinois have established a they're working with their legislature to establish a fund for a fee acreage fee on farmland that is taken out of production for commercial or housing or solar development. And they're looking at that as a fee, acreage fee and they currently it's in the process in their legislature.
So that would be an example. There's plenty of other examples. We've looked at bottle bills and as renewals and we've looked at other kinds of things where there are taxes that are designated for special efforts. So but we would be happy to visit and support what the legislature what you gentlemen and ladies come up with as far as some type of special fee for a trust fund? May I toss out two options?
So my understanding right now is on our fees. We already send, give or take, dollars 7,000,000 to other state programs that we charge fees on a lot of this stuff. So that might be, you know, on reallocation of the fees that we already have. The money coming in is just getting scattered. The other my other thought was, what is the return on investment? It appears that we are at a 40 three:one return on investment. And so that's a pretty from any business standpoint, 40 three:one is pretty awesome.
So why do we need to raise the mandatory fees on land owners? It seems like they would be throwing money at us trying to get us to invest it at a 40 three:one. Great question. And let me clarify the 40 three:one. So the five:one is the return on investment of the operations fund. So districts took that $40,000 not the grants that MDARD provides for MEAP and CTI and other programs, just the operation funds. And districts used that
$40,000 to leverage other grants, and they brought in about just over $16,000,000 Okay. So where did we go from 5.1 to 43? USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service in FY 'twenty four brought in $69,700,000 Farm Bill dollars. Those dollars go directly to farmers and producers. Districts receive zero of that, although we work very hand in hand, arm lock with arm lock with our local USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service staff
and to provide technical assistance, which we are saying if we had more funds, we could every district could have a full time person doing that technical assistance within our CS. So how did we get to the $43,000,000 by using that $67,700,000 that we worked with USDA NRCS to bring Farm Bill dollars to Michigan's farmers. Is that clear as a crystal? Well, I think I can follow-up on that.
Conservation district employees are able to bring those programs to landowners directly. So a landowner may not understand that they are eligible for EQIP, for CRP, for RCPP, etcetera. And when you when you don't have anyone in the community to share that information with them to help them identify what's appropriate for their land, that money doesn't come to Michigan. That money ends up come going to other states that have more developed conservation programs. As far as where funding comes from, in other states, it comes from a wide variety of different places.
Mister Miller had mentioned Illinois. Missouri uses a portion of their sales tax for, their conservation funding. Pennsylvania has direct allocations to conservation districts that are part of their fee structure for water pollution. So there's a wide variety of different places that states identify. But the main goal is that we wanna make sure that we are doing nonregulatory and, preemptive conservation planning rather than just fixing the things once they get broken because that's always gonna cost more money. As far as the return on investment,
perfect case study, might help visualize that. So I'm from Ottawa County as my local district. Long before the operational funds from the state of Michigan came about, Ottawa was very close to closing their doors at their conservation district because they had just no funding. They approached their county government, were given, ironically, dollars 40,000, which is the original appropriations that the state, has allocated to conservation districts. That allowed them to hire a part time staff person to start seeking out additional
funding. They saw such growth in the that first year that they went then to 80,000, then to a hundred and 20,000, of operational funding for the county. Ottawa County went in a period of ten years from being almost a defunct conservation district to now having well over a $2,000,000 annual budget within their conservation district and employing 16 highly qualified technical people in that district providing a huge range of services to the community.
And that just underscores when you have that operational funds that you're able to find those other sources of funding. You have the resources to pay someone to go write a grant that you just can't get access to if you don't have those operational funds. And some communities are able for the county to pitch in. I would much rather see the state have equity throughout the whole state, that every every county, every region in the state of Michigan has that same opportunity for growth. And then the additional support from their county will just increase that,
beyond that rather than just making it so that some conservation districts are scraping by and some conservation districts are able to do all of this because of that lack of operational funds. All set. So what you're saying is as a local community realized the return on investment, and that local community maximized it. But then you have another local community that's, like, out twiddling their thumbs and going, and we're gonna force them to maximize it? Well, conservation districts will maximize it. Right? So we just need the investment in conservation districts in the first place.
And then the conservation district delivery system, because it's an already existing unit of government, we're not having to create reinvent the wheel. We don't have to create a system there. We don't have to create a network there. It already exists. We just need to fund it. And when we do, we've seen time and time again that conservation districts blossom and bloom because they have that kind of seed and it can grow. And we've have that's part of our role as the Michigan Association is to provide that support to those districts as they grow, and to ensure that they're able to best utilize those funds as they come in,
and provide that structural support and across the board, across the entire state. So and not every community is gonna be able to pass a millage. Not every community is gonna be able to allocate county funds for a whole host of reasons, some of which being budgetary, some of which being political, some of which being, you know, whoever's on the county commission board just has other priorities. And I think as a state, it's valuable and worthwhile for us to say, our state natural resources aren't worth us investing in.
We have an existing conservation delivery system that has worked, successfully, not only in this state but nationwide, and that we can see a clear result when we fund it, it grows. And we want to grow conservation in Michigan. Alright. Representative O'Neil. Thank you, mister chair. Madam director. Thank you. Madam director, that right there summed it up. I was really pleased when I attended the breakfast. It was the last one, I believe it was. Got a chance to talk to not only my conservation staff, but also several others at the table. And they echo the sentiments that you're articulating in terms of the concerns of some
farmers, in terms of the longevity of the stay of a staff person. It really was a a disadvantage for them to really make those investments in in those build those relationships because of a high turnover based on the lack of financial support that we have to retain and train. And so, so that was very, very impactful for me. So thank you for that that offering. But, mister chair, I I just, you know, I really think, you know, the $40,000 per district is is pretty dismal. And looking at us on this map,
it's it's also for me like, wow, Michigan, the Great Lakes State. You know, we're at the bottom of the barrel, so to speak, mister Jerry. So I would support any efforts we could decide to come up with for the committee to consider as a way to support our conservation district throughout the state, sir. Thank you. Absolutely. You can tell that the rep O'Neil was a former county commissioner, as was I, and I'll talk about a little bit later how I learned about conservation districts as a county commissioner. We'll move on to rep Roth.
Sorry, mister chair. Thank you, sir. The elected board, the five members, what forgive me. I should know this, but I've not seen the elections of these five members. How how does that happen? When when how where? That kind of thing. Conservation districts, are unique in that conservation districts hold their own elections. So it's not part of the county clerk's responsibility. It's not on your typical ballot on a basic November or whatever. Every individual community holds their election at their annual meeting.
And this is another again, another reason why the operational staff is so important because amongst their many, many other duties, you know, they are running an election every year, generally. So the five member board is not all replaced at one time, which really helps improve the stability of the board. It's usually a two director, two director, one director, no director cycle over a four year cycle that they replace the Board. May I go ahead, sir. John, I just remind all our directors,
their salary is zero. Yes. No money goes to the directors who are serving on these boards. It's all voluntary as well as the state council, which are regional representatives, elected from those board members throughout the state as well as our executive committee are all unpaid volunteers. So How how about, education of the conservation district director? What kind of background is there? So that, again, it's open elections. So just like any other public office in whether it's conservation district,
county commission, or yourselves, there is not a test you have to pass or anything like that. It's based on your local community electing you. Now once you are elected, that's part of the role that we play is to help provide education, to those directors. So we have our annual conference every year. We've had two conferences. We're combining it into one that can be a bigger, more robust conference on an annual basis for those directors to attend and get training on a wide variety of things from financial management to human resources to working with
their other county people, etcetera, etcetera. And we're also working very closely with MDARD to develop a more robust training program throughout the year as well regionally. And I'd just add, the only requirement is that you directors have to be or have to certify their resident of the county, which the Board they're going to be on. We do have some districts, especially as we go north in the state that have multiple counties. So we as Rifka said earlier, we have 83 counties, we have 75 districts.
But we cover those districts, cover the entire state. May I? Absolutely. Maybe this will be a little tougher question. I know you guys are into ag land preservation. How are you finding that working along with our solar and wind issues that we have going forward? Are there some conflicts that you're running into? That question comes up a lot. It's really based on the individual local board to assess their local needs and provide support in that particular community. But, yes, that question comes up on a regular basis. One more?
One more. All right. Thank you, sir. As a former pesticide sprayer myself, I'm always kinda concerned a little bit about that. The meat program, I think, is a great program. But I think that I wanna make sure that there's always industry buy in and industry participation with it. You know, some of the regs for golf courses in particular, we used to spray two items that we could put a golf course to bed. Now we have to spray five, six, seven products to to put a golf course to bed. So I'm always a little, you know,
it may be good in the long run, but we are it's much more expensive and a lot more, product that's actually needed to do the work. So I hope that you guys will continue to engage in the industry in particular that we're looking at and get there by in an input because it does matter. So thank you for that. Filling those relationships are definitely critical on both the local and state level. And additionally, that's one of the things, again, that sets conservation districts apart is our programs are nonregulatory and confidential.
So landowners are able to get the information, be educated and apply better practices, and have more carrots and fewer sticks. And I do have good relationships with my conservation district, and I appreciate their works. Thank you, Matt. Mister chair? You're welcome. Rep McKinney? Thank you, chairman. Thank you, president and executive director, for your presentation. I'm pretty familiar with conservation districts. I had the privilege of serving on this committee last term over the past two years, with chair Brixie. And, you know, we we wanted to put some funding towards the conservation districts.
And, you know, you guys do so much. Like, I I appreciate this presentation because it's just a refresher and a reminder of, like, what you all do for our state. So I just commend you guys, with, like, very small funding. And so, you know, I represent and you highlighted in your presentation, I represent both Wayne and Macomb Counties, and I understand both of those counties are struggling, you know, really, having a robust program, through their conservation districts. And, and so, you know, my my question is, like and I'm I'm looking at this chart, this Great Lakes chart of all the states in the Midwest.
And in my mind, the Midwest is like the big 10 to me because all those Midwestern states are part of the Big Ten. And I'm a Wolverine and go blue. And I do not like losing to other states and especially, the the state just south of us, bordering us, in Ohio. I got family members, friends in Ohio. I know, a bunch of our legislative colleagues in the state legislature in Ohio. But no offense to them. We need to raise, the funding and put more support behind you guys. And I know you talked about how you guys like to couple funding from the
state and federal, and with the federal agencies and, you know, all these cuts that are happening, potential cuts. Like, what is the impact? If if a pause happens, if those cuts actually go through, how is it gonna impact our conservation state districts across the state? Well and that's part of the reason that diversified funding sources are critical for conservation districts. Right? There are those districts who rely more heavily on federal funds, and they're going to be more impacted. When districts are able to have that diversification between state operational funds that are just
guaranteed grant funds, both state and federal, as well as private foundations and individual donors, then they're fine. Right? They're able to withstand kind of the ups and downs of political changes and varying environments because of that diversified funding. Wayne County is a great example of a district that would highly benefit from additional operational funds because the reason they don't have a robust program is if you're going to get a grant first of all, as I mentioned, you have to have somebody to go write that grant. But then that who's who's paying for the district manager's salary?
Right? So Wayne just has a part time district manager. That person is not gonna have the capacity to go after a lot of funds. They're not gonna be able to attend, you know, several hundred meetings to with various townships and county commissioners, etcetera, to get county support. They're it's just not possible for one person to do on a part time salary. And bringing up other states, you know, I've had a lot of conversations, with my counterparts in our neighboring states. And first of all, they echo what you say, and they're like, we're amazed how the wide diversity of programs that Michigan conservation districts are doing compared
to to our states. So we are doing more with less, and we'd like to do more with more, because we feel confident in our ability to deliver on that. And, you know, that we would love to see Michigan be a leader in the Great Lakes and conservation, which requires funding to do. And, you know, we have more coastline of Great Lakes than any other state in the region. We have we have a lot worth protecting here. Our watersheds I have a watershed map at home that sits behind my work area.
Our watersheds cover pretty much the entire state. There's very little of our state that's not impacted by having clean water and healthy soils. Thank you so much. Any questions over here? No. All right. Very good. Obviously, thank you for being here today and giving us a refresher. Like Representative McKinney said, I wanna mention my personal experience with the conservation officers because I grew up in Metro Detroit. I've lived in Wayne County. I've lived in Oakland County. I've lived in Macomb County, and I was not familiar with conservation districts. For whatever reason, I'd never heard of them until I bought my home thirty years ago in Gaylord.
And, driving into town one weekend, I saw the little sandwich board sign, you know, conservation district tree sale. And I went, well, that's interesting. I'd like some more trees. I'll I'll stop in and check it out. And I thought that's all conservation districts did. A couple of times a year, you got together and you sold seedlings. So I learned a little bit about it. And but I will say you had a great variety of trees. And of course, it's perfect because they're for our region, right? So they're going to grow well. Well, I did discover that if you buy a five gallon bucket of those seedlings,
it takes a long time to plant them. So, yeah, so I personally will not be buying them in a five gallon bucket anymore, but I felt it was important to support the project. And then, of course, from there, I became a county commissioner and, and learned more about what the conservation district did, taking tours. My, local person, Pat Osborne, you know, filled me in on exactly what was done. And I was amazed how much you get done with how little money you have to work with. And that's only because you have a lot of very highly motivated volunteers that come in and,
and spend their time doing the good work that you folks do. So I just wanna let you know, as a county commissioner, I supported you. And as a state rep, I continue to advocate for you here. So again, thank you both for coming in. I appreciate it. Appreciate the refresher. And if nobody has anything else, this meeting is adjourned. Thank you.