e e good evening everyone in accordance with Section Five of the open public meetings act be advised that a notice of this meeting was made by posting on the bulletin board in town hall and forwarding to the officially design designated newspapers that this meeting would take place at
Town Hall at 700 p.m. on Tuesday morning March 4th 2025 meeting details and the draft agenda were also posted on our Township website please stand to salute the flag uned States vote pleasey Mayor Cohen here Mr
cro here Mr Sandy here here Mr Stoler president mayor Romano here may I have a motion to approve the agenda may I have a second all those in favor may have a motion to approve the February 4th 2025 Township committee
minutes may I have a second all those in favor may I have a motion to approve the February 4th spe February 4th 2025 special Township committee minutes may have a second second those in favor I okay uh
reports uh want to start committee second would you like to start sure um the citizens affordable housing advisory committee uh had a public meeting uh we had chaired uh there is our Municipal attorney with gr pedo as our planner uh
various members of the public um everyone was allowed to ask questions um and you know information was provided we'll be having more of these sessions um but overall it seems to have been well received um there is a planning board meeting
tomorrow uh I would I would venture to guess but don't hold me to this there's probably going to be tomorrow's meeting and maybe one more on the high Center but um you know that that always depends on how the evening goes so uh if you're
a member of the public and you wish to testify you know you may want to attend the meeting tomorrow um or that's it thank you Comm F yes just a quick report on on the historic
preservation commission um they had been without a board secretary but that was resolved as of today so things are moving forward I think their next meeting is going to be um April thank you thank you um mayor real quick uh the planning
board has been covered the library uh the second floor ation is now underway um the library will remain open for almost the entire thing there may be a couple of days here or there but for the most part the library will remain open um and the Arboretum is holding a sushi
and sake test tasting event on April 3D if you would like to attend you can sign up on the website thank you committee Miss sure um no updates on the rec committee special improvement district MNT bank has partnered with expor
Milburn to host two Financial uh Financial guidance sessions one's Friday March 14th the other one's Friday March 25th uh you have to register through a a zoom link on their website uh Boe no no updates there join Fields no updates
Mountain Valley emergency communications center the board uh we met last Wednesday uh the board will increase its meeting Cadence every uh month during 2025 to continue discussions about the future location and structure of the center uh in the meantime we actually
entered into a 10-year lease with New Providence that continue occupying the current space um it is uh we can cancel with six months notice so we're fine there flood mitigation uh we'll meet next Wednesday a lot of positive momentum with this group uh we continue
to advance all the objectives of the committee uh a reminder that residents uh we have our own web page now that you guys can go to on mil on twp.nj us uh on tonight's agenda is actually the Princeton Hydro we uh contract with Princeton Hydro to evaluate the
feasibility of Upstream improvements on the Van Winkle Brook uh which flows through the arum and Glenwood section of the township to mitigate capacity issues uh and we have secured the final easement for the Ridgewood Greenwood drainage project there was one hold out
one last one we actually received it's a great job Alex on that uh and then affordable housing I'll defer to council thank you m m yes um last week we had a uh had a discussion on the Taylor Park Gateway on
Wednesday the 26th uh it was a good discussion a lot of good input from the from the public uh we plan on that information is up on the Township's website we actually have a um a section of the township website called uh projects that uh residents can go and
view um things that are current projects that we have plans for um uh we we are putting up in that section particularly Road reconstruction or um you know the Taylor Park gateways is there as well so we just encourage residents to go take a look uh at the the current plans as well
as the video from the the public discussion and I uh would like to bring that before the township committee on the uh on the 18th of March um just a reminder about Memorial Day um May 26th at 11:00 a uh we have finalized the
application for this year so that will be going out to the parade committee and then you know anybody that's interested in participating uh can get that uh can get that form it's just a Google form that you fill out um and uh and return to us and then just a brief update on
Town Hall renovation because funny this had come up at the zoning board meeting last night now we have all these signs around the town hall stting that we are moving uh and uh we project to move on April 18th that is our our goal that is 46
days away not that I'm counting but just uh you know just want everybody to keep that in mind um there will be an a few days particularly I think the week of spring break and the week of that move that we do CL close Town Hall just to help facilitate that move but um that
will be communicated as well and uh and just wanted to let the public know April 18th we plan on being at 22 East Willow uh which will be our temporary space while this is Renova thank you Mr K thank you mayor just a brief update on
fair share housing um we filed our uh fourth round resolution um and in which we reduced DCA found a need of 555 units the township reduced its number to 522 we passed a resolution here uh we fil the
township filed the declaratory judgment action on January 22nd uh pursuant to the fourth round rules any objector had until February 28th to file an objection to that number um and I'll just go through out there
were 440 uh resolutions passed in the state um going into the fourth um excuse me accepting the fourth going accepting the fourth round uh obligations out of the 440 municipalities that that file
282 accepted dca's number 158 challenged dca's number um an entity called Jersey Builders Association uh filed an Omnibus objection um to all 158 municipalities
that reduced their number um we don't think that this challenge meets the statutory requirement the statutory requirement states that as Milburn had to justify why we reduced from 555 to 522 uh with with specificity and
particularity we identified properties um at DCA um identified as developable which we did not believe were developable um this objector did not do that um this objector simply stated that dca's calculations were correct and that the municipalities um should file dca's
calculations um I've been directed by uh this governing body um to file um basically an objection to their objection um we also are questioning how obviously a group of developers um Can fulfill a need but we're unclear on how
they what their interest is on the actual need itself other than you know to make more money and have more units in the state so the township will be filing something in response to that um I am happy to report though that fair share housing Corporation um filed objections they filed 60 objections they
did not object um to the Township's uh reduction from 555 to 522 and I think um this governing body and the hard work of obviously Mr McDonald and topology went a long way to not being challenged by fair share housing Corporation um so all
objections were due by by February 28 so we don't don't perceive any further objections um there is a case management conference scheduled next Tuesday at 9:00 am in person um and that is to discuss there's an open issue regarding RPM the developer of the N Main Street
project um filed a five-day order ordering the court to uh enforce a pilot agreement which was unnegotiable uh on the N Main Street and specifically to to finish up our third round obligations MCM mcal Balman filed opposition um those of you have readed I
think they did a really good job um and that will be not decided in court on Tuesday although it may be but it'll certainly be discussed on Tuesday in court as how to proceed on that um if there's no further questions from this committee I have nothing further thank you okay public comment
when invited to speak to offer your comments please come to the Lector and clearly state your name and whether you are a Milburn resident and or property or business owner please do not provide your full address seeing our meetings are recorded and readily available to the public for the convenience of our community there is a remote option if
you called in and would like to come in please press star six now if you are attending by computer or electronic device please click the raiseed hand button and be sure your video is on when you comment all members of the public wishing to speak will be put into the queue to address the committee to help facilitate an orderly meeting and to
permit all to be heard heard speakers shall limit their comments to one three minute session you will be prompted when there's 30 seconds remaining a reminder this is not a time for dialogue or to debate a matter this is a time during our business meeting for the public to offer comments I will now open public
comment hi everybody good evening good evening my name is pry Sharma I am a new resident of Milbourne I moved here about two years ago um I love this beautiful town and what I can see is uh people who live here and the committee work really hard to keep
it that way uh one thing I want to provide feedback today is on the gas powered leaf blowers uh those are a Nuance uh the because of mainly of the the noise that they contribute and compounded by my dog barking at the
landscaper so I'm really hoping uh this committee uh will do something about it to Bring the Noise Pollution down so I can sleep in on Sundays thank you thank you hi everybody I'm radika I'm Dr radika anger a resident of Wyoming
section in Milbourne uh research on sustainable development and environment practice is my day job I am the director of education at the center for sustainable development at the climate school at columia University and I teach climate topics at uh the at Sea School
of International public affairs at Columbia University so when this discussion on restricting gas powered leaf blowers came up I was extremely thrilled that mbour will be taking on an environmental action that will help to reduce environmental damage and as pry
pointed out it will help us to sleep more there'll be less noise and I can enjoy a beautiful walk in my neighborhood Sunday mornings without getting disturbed by this machine roaring in my uh in my ears there will also be um you know a lot of uh Health
uh benefits by stopping these gas powered blowers more than 100 towns and cities have banned the gas leaf blowers therefore for the sake of people's mental well-being health and for the environment we must reflect on our actions and restrict the use of gas P
leaf blowers in town thank you thank you hi my name is Sarah Jen I'm a 10year resident of Milburn I also want to speak in favor of this ordinance I understand it's limited in time where
it's just for the summer months and the winter months La uh for now and that's that's all we want to address for the other Seasons when leaves are abundant in our town um they they are not asking to restrict gas powered but yeah we all
love the summer the summer is we look forward to it all year it's such a short period of time and then we're out and we can't enjoy the outside we can't enjoy beautiful Milburn because you if you're on your bike and you the leaves are blowing in your face or you know you're
sitting outside trying to read the paper on the rare summer mornings that you get to do that and you're disturbed by uh the pollution all it's well well documented the environmental uh impact um and it's
right in in the ordinance in the Weare has CLA that I'm sure you guys will see there there's some statistics that are pretty riveting thank you thank you good evening Phil kersch mbour resident I realized that for the pass this tonight on first reading there will
be a public hearing on ordinance 27002 an ordinance prohibiting political party chairs from serving as chairs on Municipal committees at the next meeting but I wanted to comment on that issue before the vote this ordinance would seem harmless who could in good
conscience oppose it you might say except I question the considerations that have brought it Forward certainly in the many years I have lived here when a different party controlled municipal government I have sometimes doubted their policies even their judgment but I did not use my disagreement as a lever
to charge them with prejudice very much against the contentions contentions of some I object to the creation of a perception of prejudice that then becomes the reason to create an ordinance which then historically will imply that there was
Prejudice for this reason that because such an ordinance is unnecessary if I were on the committee I would vote against passage tonight thank you thank you um good evening uh Jeffrey Feld I live in the poet section
um General comment we do the agenda can we maybe disclose the amount of certain um like what's the amount of the bill list like what's some amounts of the contracts the public really has to go into the heart
of the agenda packet to understand the amount of monies are being done for example on the bill list there's an issue is how much money has Mr can been paid for services performed in calendar year of
2024 there's on the bill list there an excess of Two Bills in excess of $80,000 if you add it to the 420 that was on the chart you paid um Mr caner I think in excess of half a million dollar for work and the question is what did he
do and who's been watching the the quality of the work has been done um as to the ordinance I was just discussed about Mr kersch look at the caption the caption does not agree with the body of the the ordinance because the caption implies that if you're the party chair
you can't serve on any committee that is not the intent specifically you cannot be the chair of a committee and I think that we should just correct that and also you should clarify if this ordinance is adopted is the current party chair who's
the Sid chair grandfather or does the ordinance automatically apply for to her as of this year and then she would had to be replaced as the chair I think the public needs to know what your intent is as to that as a 22 East Willow Court the
furniture purchase um what's the source of the funding because when you look at the ordinance that refers to it refers to the bond ordinance that was for the acquisition of 22 East Willer Court I don't believe that the bond ordinance provided that could be used for
furniture I think that would have been used maybe in the project when you did the bond ordinance for the um renovation of of town hall in addition like when we were talking about tlor Park last week once the construction starts on
Town Hall will that impact the town hall closure that was used by the Sid during the summer because of the construction materials I mean things that come out is it a safety concern or we have we looked at that or
we going to have to relocate that activity um um I'm very happy about the ground ground four um that the fair share housing center did not object to us but there's been a series of articles that came out today about Gothamist and we really have a constitutional issue
here is whether the courts because Gothamist and the fair share housing center group want the judges to determine and reallocate the locations and I don't think they have the Constitutional power to do that thank you I'll speak later on other issues
hello good evening Andrew Becker Andrew Becker Enterprises I'm here to talk about uh the leaf blower the possible leaf blower band uh it has a lot of people talking about it it's brought to a lot of people's attention uh the people in the landscape industry or service
professionals uh we work in a very vast and expansive town uh we have a lot of little properties and large properties um very uh we take our responsibilities very serious our properties are uniquely landscaped some are as small as a
Halfacre up to five seven and 10 Acre Properties uh we try to provide a high level of service and integrity to our clients we provide a lot of curb appeal in the community uh we work hand inand with the
fall cleanup with the Department of Public Works by making these piles very contained organized so their leaf collection is very um easily done if we don't have the power tools and the proper blowers
to do this we will not be able to clean the streets to an efficient level where they will be able to pick up the leaves and they will then have to provide more labor to pick up the full Cleanup in the community um if that's possible you may
have a situation where uh you have violations of the clean water drinking act we all were able to come together and make these leaf piles with the zones if we don't have the power tools to do it you may have very long piles that
will be hard to collect with heavy rains you will have the leaf tea and the runoff going into the catch basins as landscapers we clean the catch spti after heavy storms we're very uh considerate and have a lot of what we call leaf blower etiquette when the
community walks by when the girls are walking their dogs my men turn the blowers off everyone waves smiles we read into the fact that these blowers may be uh an issue with people but we try to be respectful in the community and we try to do the right thing if
we're going to ban the leaf blowers what are we going to ban next are we going to ban the gas weed whacker the gas headed trimmer are we going to ban the chainsaw I mean how are we going to keep this community clean with some of the largest property taxes in the state and the most
valuable properties in the state maybe there should be some kind of uh list of rules for the landscapers maybe the township committee could create or the uh Department of Public Works some rules some regulations I've never seen rules or regulations all I've heard is Ban the
leaf blowers um they want us to use lithium battery leaf blowers they're illegal in New York City we're going to need generators that are going to create more pollution than the leaf blowers do these generators will run from the minute we start work until the end of
the day and then we're going to store these batteries in our garages we're going to have the same type of thing as we have in New York with the lithium batteries thank you very much for your time good evening my name is Robert Sai owner of Discovery Landscaping working in Milburn for the last 30 years
um as as a business owner and professional landscaper in town I strongly oppose this gas plan Bann uh our work relies heavily on these tools to maintain the beauty and cleanliness of our clients's properties efficiently
um they're essential for handling large area large debris and heavy debris during our Peak seasons and even off peak Seasons I mean leaves fall then well spring cleanup happens and then the the pollen Falls the flowers fall all of
the trees which all need to be cleaned up um switching to electric blowers is just not um viable option right now the technology is not there it's not strong enough to to do what we needed to do as a business owner and cleaning our
customers this is also going to increase costs operational costs and excuse me it's going increase operational cost for our customers leading to higher prices for landscapers again what Andy said in one of the
highest tax towns in the in the state um adjacently recharging electric blowers require gas generators on site which negate any environmental benefits of switching to these Electric Tools um I hope you guys would consider
alternative measures um without a complete ban which it sounds like you guys are which is you know beneficial but hopefully we can work together and find a uh more balanced Solution that's going to help us all thank you
good evening Diane Eko long-term resident I was at the Taylor Park Gateway presentation and it's amazing it will do so much to clean up Milbourne Avenue and I really hope that their support from the township committee people with the wheels because I think
it adds the history of the Town um about the gas powerered leaf blowers we have an electric leaf blower that we just use in Our Deck it has a very high pitch noise worse than a gas blower I when I I do remind people when I speak that I did sit up there for six years and I
remember I said the town should set the example the town should be the first one an the T switch to electric blowers have they not not for Le CL right so maybe there's a reason you said the property was too big the parks well some people
have very big properties in Short Hills if you put enough houses together in Seth Mountain section where I live that's a big piece of property I think if you're going to do something I think there Mufflers available for gas powerered leaf blowers there can be something besides Banning it which I
don't personally see as a solution and I speak for the landscapers who are here I see tonight thank you hi my name is Nick santagata I live here in town as well I'm a landscaper and uh today I visited uh PMP
lawnmowers in Mars toown uh in in Maplewood and he Services all our lawnmowers uh 90% of people around town and that work in the vicinity and he told me the technology is just not there
it's not it's not there so I want to do what's right for my customers I would go with electric I'm I'm all about getting a Tesla and everything but when he is there and he is telling me that the technology is not there for me I have to do what's right for my customers and
their property need to be cleaned well so I I I I would it's it's going to be very tough for us to clean these properties that well um when the technology is not there that's all I have to say thank you Charles Bambara 28y year resident of
M Township uh I respect the environmental commission I've attended their meetings I think highly of all of them I have advised them personally based on my 50 plus years of engineering experience I know the technology I know
the engineering uh I've pointed out that there are gas powerered blowers that have a noise output that is as quiet as human speech I could go online and I can buy one of them and have it delivered tomorrow the landscapers feel that they can use those
as well over time given time to transition I'm I'm asking you before you cast a vote on this issue understand the technology understand the Alternatives do the research for yourself and don't just read propaganda
and hype look at you know Google uh low noise gas powered leaf blowers you'll find a whole bunch of them that are for sale manufacturers of these devices don't want to go out of business tomorrow they've invested millions of dollars in R&D programs over the last
five plus years to develop these current models that are available that meet noise standards and are as quiet as the residents have asked for that are advocating for the ban so if anything uh modify the noise
ordinance in town to include uh uh leaf blowers or or any other garden tools you may want but um uh make it a noise standard that makes sense because the the complaint is noise and and if you're
talking about pollution uh the new models have low pollution also they have stratified charge uh uh uh fuel uh injection so uh they're much cleaner burning don't look at tools that were
were made or studies that were done comparing to a pickup truck that were done in 2011 that's 15 years ago the Technology's changed please do the research eles educate yourselves Before You cast your vote because I can tell you from an engineering standpoint I'm
environmentally responsible also a lot of the work I do is in that line but this is unnecessary that's my professional advice to you thank you hi chair Mor Elli uh resident I'd like to start by thanking all the TC
members for their service to the community two questions tonight first regarding the open space tax which I wholeheartedly support uh but with that said the ordinance as written uh seems to be open-ended if I'm reading it
correctly um there's no max amount that can be accumulated in the fund um there is no end date and basically this tax goes on forever I would suggest that we put a Sunset date on this say five years
so that after a period of time we can look back and judge the success of this and make the decision on whether or not it's worth continuing if successful as we all hope it will be renewing it will not be contentious if it's not achieving
it its goals for whatever reason it can be abandoned the second topic has to do with the new business topic of zoning review topics I've spoken with several TC members over the past 6 months regarding ordinance
2577 D21 which made restaurants of conditional use within 125 ft of Residential Properties I think four years on from the passage of this Co covid ear ordinance it would make sense
for the zoning code examination advisory committee to see if any changes should be made to this ordinance thank you thank you how are you my name is Luigi santagata um I'm GNA try to represent
three generations of landcaping in this town between the Santa godas and the biano family um my great my grandfather Luigi santat has been a landscaper in this town for
uh since well he died 95 years old so and he's been landscaper in this town for all these years so we're third generation so it's me and my brother my brother and I my dad and uh my
grandfathers so um what I would like to say is uh I'm representing about 250 customers in Shore Hills my brother is probably representing
uh another 300 customers in Short Hills the bianos and the discovery so it's quite a few thousand customers and I spoke to a lot of my customers and told them that um you know with these changes
that the property it's going to cost a lot more to get the property looking the way it should um and uh I figured it's a 30 to 40% increase on customers that are
already paying ridiculous taxes in town I mean you know I'm talking 40 years back now so I don't know uh what your plans are but you know Milburn Short Hills is like summit summit tried that
this uh whatever you guys plan on doing with these batteries they don't work the batteries last 10 minutes uh nothing can get done um and uh I really don't want to do this but I mean Summit tried it it didn't
work they shut it down one two three um and I have friends of mine that are work for the township of summit and it got shot down like that so um you know please think about um you know and now
you know with with I know it's a noise ordinance but none of our customers complain about noise we're there the blowers are there 3 four minutes blowing this is during the season not in the spring and fall but during the season
five minutes oh sorry but and you know I just feel like you know um and it's going to put a lot of hardship on us because now we have to rear everything and you know we they're
pristine properties I mean my customers like right there Kenny bandle bam right there so um you know uh please thank you uh thank you yeah just yeah we are not voting on it on tonight's meeting but
it's still in discussion and uh we we'll let you know if we ever get to that point but we're not we're not acting on that to just thank you thank you right hi my name is sebas biano I've been the business for 1972 I live in mbour
uh like I say I I talking I be going a lot of meeting this going on because this is is other towns already they have this problem so I have a friend of mine is my age is being the business as long
as I am and he Le Us in monay he works in monair and they he had to go out and buy $24,000 BL all electric BL because this is not lasting now he says I can't
take it anymore because you all needs a guy just keep charging a battery and and it's not enough uh electricity that you have with you unless you you put a a trail that you it's got all all the
right equipment to do but still the battery it's a 10 minutes last and he's thinking about says if it wasn't for my kids I will go out of the business I would leave the business because I say there's no way I can make it that's all I have to say just take a consideration
for other people to thank you Janet pizar um in reference to the gateway to the tailor Park project um anybody who sees the rendition I think will form an opinion
and everybody's opinion is welcome and everybody's entitled to their opinion and every opinion is also very subjective what I would like to suggest is to solicit input from the Arts Council in Milburn Township just because
artistic minded people are very much tuned into Aesthetics proportion balance uh um congruity and I I think it would be very very helpful to get some input from
them um I'm pleased with the projects I'd like to see it go forward but I'd like to see some tweaks and I think that the input from the Arts Council can get give us the best objective reasoning behind
the project thank you thank you I think we're gonna go online real okay good evening good evening hi my name is naita ramanan and I've been a Milbourne resident for about seven years now um I wanted to actually talk about the
ordinance uh on the gas leaf blowers um I do support it and and I'll tell you why as an asema patient myself I actually started working with our landscaper about 2 years ago on whether there is a viable option to limit the
use of gas floors and I can tell you a few things that we've done as a family to make this work um I fully understand um that there are challenges with the electric technology right now the batteries just don't last enough they're heavier so it's harder for the
landscapers to carry them as backpacks which is what they do with the gas floors so I I totally get that it's not easy it's not an easy transition but what we've done in the last two years successfully with our landscaper is um three things one he started bringing a
battery blow for the lighter months not the fall months where he just does our deck and a few um concrete areas we let the leaves be on the grassy area it's it doesn't bother us it's not affected the
looks of our property so that's one two um we've just um we we let him use the gas blower in the fall months because he you know there is no option right now and we just do it less number of times but it it works totally fine and third
we keep an electric blower um which is a corded one and we use it whenever like there are off times when we want something cleaned up and it's not what we want looking um and it's worked really well so I I just wanted to share that experience with all of you um this
doesn't need to come at the cost of any landscaper or any uh business and it doesn't have to come at the cost of our um the looks of our yards or our properties thank you thank you we have we have five four more go
ahead I mind let's finish them probably waited good evening okay hi everybody well have um good evening brief I'm Fran Denmark Feld um
longtime Milburn resident I am going to just want to thank the township committee for um engaging with the firm the architectural firm that they chose to work on the Gateway project I was
there last week along with Diane Frank and a bunch of other people I wanted to see what what came up this time and I I was so pleasantly surprised at this new project unlike the first go round which
looked like a bad version of Disney World um we have a real dignified plan now put together by real architects who seem to know what they're doing and I was just thrilled with the plans maybe
they'll tweak them it's okay it's not perfectly the way I would want it if I designed it but I'm not a designer um so I want to thank the township committee tonight for taking the extra time to find another firm who
wanted to design something that's that's um where that's worthy of our town that looks like a Gateway not a joke and um and on top of that the price that they the estimate they gave for the work was well within what it what it should be I
asked my husband I don't know if you know my husband is an architect he's been an architect for over 40 years he looked at it and and he guessed a price higher than the estimate from this company so all together right now again
I just want to give credit where credit was due thank you Township committee I'm very happy thank you good evening ah good evening Jean Pastak resident I just wanted to comment on a
couple of things I really liked what Jay morale had to say about the open space tax or um ordinance I think uh those guard rails that he suggested are really important and would be um a positive addition I also think that um his
comments on the new business topic about zoning were also really good and I agree with them um I also want to talk about ordinance 27-25 I agree that the title of the ordinance and the body of the language
in the ordinance don't seem to match um as the uh chair of the Republican Committee in town I am 100% behind this I think it's absolutely appropriate and I'm glad to see that it's come to this um you know to this
fruition uh I also wanted to um mention the Gateway project I liked what Diane said uh regarding the history and how important Taylor Park is to the town and also Janet's comments um you know about uh involving the Arts committee I'd also
like to ask would the historic preservation committee uh be an appropriate group to ask for their comments and review given its connection to and such a strong connection to the history of the town uh maybe they have I
don't know but I'm just asking since uh the the two before me had mentioned um those two points uh one other thing I guess um the rooftop decks and the new business topic I know this was a very contentious topic
when it came up year A couple of years ago I guess or maybe now it's three um I my feeling is that um once you open the topic uh it's going to be difficult to limit uh where and when these rooftop
decks might appear so I just as a resident uh with a lot of the new um building going on in town and developments I think that this is not the Great idea and I'm hoping that there's a robust discussion about it uh
and then finally I guess one thing that strikes me listening to everybody about the leaf blowers um there's been so much work done I know by the commission and also the um environmental commission and also by others who seem to have a lot of information that they want to bring
forward is there any way that we could do more educational Outreach uh and and also um just make sure that all these ideas are clearly heard and that people really understand the issues because I feel at this point confused I would
admit that um I think that's it oh one last thing if I have time um I really think that it's critical given all the spending that's that's being put forward that there gets to be a long-term plan I'd like to ask Alex if he could get on the calendar since he said it'd be ready
oh sorry thank you thank you good evening can you put your yes sorry it was a bit slow so hi Caroline Jama 11 years in Milburn I'd like to speak about the leaf blower
issue I'd like to highlight you know the support I have for people who are you know pushing for restriction on the use of Leaf flowers um I'd like to make clear that I really support you know the landscapers in their work and you know optimizing their time uh but I think
really with this leaf blower we are suffering from noise uh you know issues uh one leaf blower is one thing for 3 minutes most of the time it's three to to four you know Leaf flowers at the same time and for more than 5 minutes actually rather around 10 or 15 minutes
and that's to me is really one of the main issues with this Leaf flowers so while I don't want to prevent any work to be done and be done properly um I have issues with with this and I'd like to support any restriction on the use and regarding the noise of this uh Leaf
flowers thank you very much thank you good evening hello can you hear me yes you could just put your camera on yeah I'm just trying to thank you hi Jonathan Baxter from farbrook Drive in Short Hills and I also want to speak
about the uh seasonal gas leave pla band so my understanding is and I've done a fair bit of research on this it looks like it gained a lot of momentum during Co because of people working from home and their specific objections quite reasonably to the amount of noise that the blowers
generate um and that was the primary sort of cause for the momentum getting started or at least gaining momentum but the thing to understand is that banning gas blowers and replacing them with electric won't change the noise levels there are commercial powerful backpack blowers and I've spoken to several
landscapers who tell me that these blowers are going to be just as effective during the summer months when we're proposing the ban and they operate at 65 DB and to understand what that level is it's about normal human conversation level there's a an application on your iPhone that you can
pull up that shows the noise level you've experienced over the last week I'm not going to demonstrate it here because I'm talking on my phone but uh if you open that app and look at your average noise levels I did just before I came on this call so for the last week for me it was 66 dbel one dbel Higher
average noise and I don't work in a loud job trust me I sit in front of a computer most of the day so 65 DBS is actually very quiet and it's the same volume as most electric leaf blowers uh so it makes a lot more sense to focus on
the noise issue directly and perhaps consider restricting the use of um very noisy blowers but not Banning the gas engines allog together and just quickly I want to speak to emissions there's a lot of misleading headlines about emissions if you look into the data though the greenhouse gas emissions from
gas leaf blowers are negligible as you'd probably expect given they burn very little fuel they do generate other hydrocarbon emissions but the California air resources board did a study on this and found that they have a negligible impact on cancer risk for landscapers who are using them continuous ly so the
impact on the rest of us is essentially zero so I would uh urge the township committee to consider either pushing this to a referendum where everybody who has a stake gets a chance to have input or perhaps consider changing to a more noise-based focused ban which has been
tried elsewhere thank you thank you good evening good evening thank you Perry erso upper milour Avenue um I'm gon to refer you guys to the ordinance 2561 D20 I'm sure you're familiar with that by
now section 12 letter A the secretary the secretary shall be the custodian of the corporate corporations records documents and the Seal of the corporation the secretary shall AIX the corporate seal to all
instruments when authorized and directed to do so by the Board of Trustees shall keep the minutes of all meetings of the Board of Trustees shall perform such duties not inconsistent with the
ordinance as may be in incidental to the office or may be determined by the Board of Trustees and the chair of the board because the Sid chair requests all intending at their meetings to send their prepared statements to the
executive director Steve at explore Milburn is the secretary in compliance with their duties and should the township committee act on section 12 and letter e also section 12 letter B the voting
members of the board of trusties number two states that two persons who are owners of real estate within the district District or officials of the corporation or entity owning real estate within the district to be called owner
trustees so let it be known for the record that there is only one owner trustee for two years and as has publicly previously been stated by the city mayor that they cannot fill that vacancy that's something that the uh
review board might want to consider Al Al I'd like to uh it was questioned at the February 27th Sid board meeting the expenditures from January 27th to January 31st in the amount of $1,775 and it was listed for the 2024
sponsor dinner it was stated by the Sid chair she Justified the expenses was to pay it forward and the marketing director said that it was to thank the sponsors for their sponsorships and this is the first time that they've done it and that this would be paid for by the
sponsors when the funds were received were the sponsors told that the part of their sponsorship money would go towards a dinner to thank them and also I would like to State regarding uh ordinance
27002 regarding the chairs can you clarify if this ordinance reflects chairs sitting on boards or committees with a budget which reflect the use of trust fund monies thank you and have a wonderful evening thank
you thank you um my name is Bill brazelle I live in the South Mountain neighborhood um like so many here tonight I'm here to talk about the gas powered leaf blowers uh really appreciate hearing the voices on all sides and I want to emphasize again uh
my respect for all of the hard work that landscapers do um as you know I was a landscape laborer myself for a number of months I know how hard to work is and I understand the strains that you guys are under um I do want to make clear because there seem to be some confusion that
this is a seasonal restriction that's being proposed not a ban um it this it would not affect fall cleanup it would not affect spring cleanup it would only affect the time during which very little is on the ground so this should not be a
hardship and we've talked to a number of landscapers about this who have told us yeah we can live with that as landscapers live with it in more than a hundred communities around the country just in the last two weeks West Orange and uh Glenn Ridge also went with a seasonal restriction somehow they're
able to cope and the reason they're able to cope is that in fact the total cost of ownership for electric and Battery leaf blowers is significantly less than the total cost of ownership of a gas leaf blower there's a University of Arkansas study which we will share with the township committee and anybody else
who would like to see it that that emphasizes that um the other thing I want to talk about is that uh the the you know I'm saying landscapers are are generally thriving in areas where this has happened one clear evidence of this is is the District of Colombia
Washington DC passed a restriction about four years ago and there has been absolutely no interest in bringing back gas leaf blowers even by the landscapers everybody's business is just fine and they really like life without it uh what
they compare it to is mandatory seat Bel laws that when they were first proposed people said that's terrible how dare you tell me what to wear in my car but now nobody wants to go back to times before seat belts because we've seen the difference that it makes um and finally
I I not finally but just a couple quick things uh I have great respect for you Charlie uh but it is not true that we're only citing studies from 2011 um in fact I'll give you a quote from Consumer Reports uh from last year where they
said no gas models are quiet by any stretch and they St they studied all of them and they said the best electric leaf blowers we've tested match or beat the best gas models in every single test we conduct so it is simply not true that these things are no good and the
technology is not not there Consumer Reports I think most of us respect the testing that they do has been very clear about it um what's more as Consumer Reports pointed out they're also better for the planet better for your cars and over time probably better for your
wallet as well um I also have asthma and I really appreciate uh the speaker who talked about that yeah I'm times up okay all right anyway thank you very much good pristine best um mbour Township I'm
here to talk about the leaf blower ban seasonally restriction ban semantics um I want to talk electric is powered by coal about 20% in the US other the rest of electric I think is
39% is gas rest is around is nuclear so coal is one of the dirtiest dirtiest uses I mean to burn so there's a lot of things I feel like this is not
real Green Solution that's my personal opinion and I support climate change and um efforts to you know fix that um so I really think this should be put out to a referendum just like they did the open space tax which is only going to equate to three or 400 bucks a family and they
thought that that was important to put out a referendum from what these guys are talking about and I've talked to some top landscapers Todd group who I've used and Discovery for many many years I've used quite a number a number of other people prior to that um they're talking about 30 to 40% increases so some people spend a lot of money on
their lawn so you know you're saying somebody should spend an extra Grand two grand a year with the taxes going up I I I think that should be put to a vote I feel very very strongly about this um I also want to talk about um equality and Equity lithium is mined in mostly
African countries they use child labor and slave labor to mine that it also destroys the ecosystem it pollutes it strips trees it is not green in any way whatsoever so you're trading something that's actually pretty clean for something that's really not that clean
as far as asthma goes I've had allergies my whole life I've had asthma I'm very very allergic to mold leaves Harbor mold okay so leaving the leaves leaves mold for people so you can look at it every way you want to leaving leaves also is a habitat for ticks a lot
of people tip um tick born illnesses are endemic I can attest to that I've spent 30 years combating Lyme disease so I like to have a clean lawn I'm not a diva I just want to clean lawn so I don't get ticks when I Roll Along lawn um I also wanted to talk the equipment I think you
guys should do an equipment test I I mean why not do it you know this is an important thing it shouldn't just be done half ardly and you know I feel very strongly about it um and then I also wanted to talk about you're going to run a
generator on the street okay an electric raw generator it's not like the highend generators what's the difference it's literally five DBS more than gas blower so it's kind of like you're going to be listening to somebody powering up all their battery cells and I also want to remind you that lithium batteries
explode they're very very dangerous so now all these guys have to carry lithium batteries their trucks and expose themselves to possibly an explosion so I'm just saying that sometimes switching just to switch is not always the best thing and I also think that maybe Melbourne can include include maybe um
some type of um I'm sorry I'll come back and say that thank you for thank you any else last but not least good evening Jerry Kung short H resent um just wanted to have a quick question on resolution
25-80 authorizing Furniture purchase under State contract um just wanted to get some clarity on this is this furniture for the temporary space in East Willow is it Furniture that's going to be in the renovated Town Hall if it is for East Willow is it going to be able to be reused in town
hall I'm sure you've thought of all this already so just want some clarity thank you thank you do one okay one more good evening hello good evening hi my name is nidi takur I live in cdge on cdge Road
in the poet section I would like to present my support for the seasonal ban on gas powered leaf blowers uh there have been innumerable scientific reasons already established why this would be a good thing uh Chief
among them of course being that gas powered leaf flers use up the amount of gas that we could count one of them can add up to so many uh miles of cars driven and the pollution ensues um air
pollution sound pollution none of which is uh great for um our Milburn uh also the fact that uh if our uh neighboring towns can find a solution to this and
have the ban in place and find Lawns which are wellmaintained I think we can do that too uh additionally um Leaf does not need to be blown at all times so we can all take uh make uh you
know suggestions and Solutions on how to keep our Lawns uh good for us cells but Leaf unto itself uh promotes diversity biodiversity so you know if some of it is there I don't think it's such a bad thing so overall I um support the
seasonal ban on the leaf power gas power Leaf doors thank you thank you close comments can we even sure I'll go ahead and start
quite the turn up uh I hadit Leaf uh gas powered leaf blowers up front I'm going to do the work to understand all of the ins and outs benefits advantages disadvantages of it I can promise that to all of the U uh landscapers here in
the room as well as environmentalists you know I have a private Equity business we're environmental Bend uh and I asked a couple folks about it what I want to make perfectly clear is that there is a sign science behind it but every email I've gotten everything's talking about the noise so we have to
make sure that we're addressing the issue that the community has uh is it the noise or is it the the power uh just like when I was looking to buy a new car I rented the Tesla for a month I drove it I did not end up buying a Tesla uh I
went out and bought a g electric leaf blower with the lithium battery I I could barely blow anything off my yard it was crazy um so I took get back spent 350 bucks got the 190 mph one thing would blow rubber off a basketball it
was crazy however it lasts 15 minutes uh and that was problematic so just understanding and having that use and using the the power also to a seasonal restriction on the use of gas power blowers during the summer I want to make
sure we're hitting the summer months that's mid June to Mid September I guess or mid end of yeah mid setember uh versus understanding six months of of seasonal ban or five months or whatever the case is so I want to make sure that we do the work uh and and also the other
piece too my brother who lives in one of our neighboring towns I like to think we're going to lead as a town not follow but he says the biggest annoyance in ever is going outside they're not using electrical generators guys they're using a big gas power generator he said it's
crazy the size of these generators that are on the back of this truck making more noise than you could ever imagine uh so we have to understand what you know if we're getting the result that we want with this ordinance um when we pass if we pass it as we look at it um so so
we will do that work and make sure we understand what it is and also you know additional cost always have to take that into consideration that being said I support everyone's right from the environmental piece uh you know the the the piece that really stuck out to me was the equivalent of running a gas leaf
blower for a half hour is equivalent to driving a Ford 150 truck from here to Alaska or Georgia to Alaska or something I've driven a Ford 150 truck there's a hell of a lot of emissions coming out of thing so I start out with a negative
perception on that um next uh I'm glad you guys enjoy the uh gateway to Taylor Park looking forward to that and I do offer to M jelen and and rodica Dr rodica to give me the science I need
to understand the science of it uh because I have young children as well at home uh and uh yeah that's about it oh oh uh to Mr Feld uh that that is a typo on the uh on
the ordinance it is serving as chair of a municipal committee so we'll just have to make that before we pass it that's it for me thank you guys appreciate your break up now sure um as far as the uh sunsetting the open space tax actually I
have a question for um for Mr caner this was based on um the vote that we passed where people voted on it and there was no Sunset clause in what was voted on so I'm not sure that the question is is that something if we so chose to do I'm
not say we do is that something that that we could do when we pass the ordinance for the open space tax since that's not what people voted on I'd have to look that m a question um I'm glad everybody's happy with the Gateway I saw the
presentation and we've certainly come a long way from the original proposal I would agree certainly I'm sure um Mr McDonald be able to get the uh input from uh from those two committees um you know people have opinions it's no guarantees
and lastly Mr kers thank you for your I if anybody remembers it was so long ago when you spoke but um thank you for your your comments and I wholeheartedly agree sure uh so for those of you that came out to speak in support of the Milburn Gateway project I appreciate
your comments uh I was at the info session last week I thought the plans looked great uh I think it'll be a real needed Improvement uh to our town I would like the price to be a little bit better but then again who wouldn't um I
do think uh that some of you brought up some good points maybe we should have the art committee and certainly the HPC should probably review the plans give their input not that they you know get to make a decision on it but um why not get their input you know in a formal
capacity uh that's probably a good idea um I I Mr morial I too uh would like to know if we are able to put a sunset on that open space tax so Mr caner will get back to us on that um it's a it's a good
thing to think about and consider um guess we'll talk about the elephant in the room the blowers blowers there so much fun um you know I've heard a lot of great arguments
on both sides of this um and you know I came into this thinking one way my thinking has evolved a little bit but I think what we ended up with was instead of a total you know year round ban we've come up with something that will hopefully work for everyone which is a
seasonal restriction uh for a few months out of the year when you likely aren't going to need the high-powered blowers as much right so we're excluding the spring excluding the fall um you know if the landscapers out
there still have a problem with that and can make a compelling case then I urge you guys to to come forward and do so certainly send uh us to TC members emails uh Etc um because I've heard a lot of arguments you know against
Banning the equipment outright I get that that that I understand but I haven't heard a lot of arguments as to why these things are necessary in June July and August and maybe there are reasons why they're needed um but I'd like to hear those
wions um let's see uh Miss Pastak yes the long-term spending plan um I I agree that is something we've been promised for a while um I'm hoping Mr McDonald will give us an update on when he intends to
um do a presentation on the town's uh long-term spending plans um and then uh to Dr kung's question with regards to the furniture Mr McDonald perhaps you could uh educate the public here as to you know whether
that furniture is going to be you know temporary uh just you know while we're rebuilding the town hall or if that new furniture is going to be indeed moved to the New Town Hall that's all I have thanks Comm MCO yes thank you uh I'm
gonna go through this pretty quick because A lot's been said um but uh I I I I do support the uh the Gateway uh changes the entrance I do think it's a good idea to have the Arts Council and and HPC take a look at that um I'm want to say you know thank you to all the
people that are talking about the leaf blower b band I've gotten a lot of emails I'm assuming many of us have as well I haven't responded to all those but I am reading those and I appreciate those so I when I want to know that um the fiveyear um suggested by Mr moral
about the fiveyear sunset on the open space you know depending on Mr caner says um I think that's a good idea uh to have we can always re-evaluate it see you know if the funds have been used to you know for the purposes that everyone
you know expects them to be used for um Mr moral had a comment about the one zoning uh section being referred to the zoning Review Committee I think that's a good idea um I have some of that on new business at the at the end so I'll Loop
that back in at that time thank you for thank you um the furniture that we're buying for East Willow is coming back here I think you mentioned that at the last at the last meeting right um the the leaf blower uh restriction ordinance is is ongoing um there's a lot of
communication back and forth and um just from my own curiosity I think I'm going to take a ride to Maplewood South Orange over this summer and see what I hear um and uh I think that's all I wanted to comment on
thank you mayor um just to answer a couple questions one just to be more specific about the furniture uh yes what we are purchasing is 28 workstations uh that will occupy 22 East Willow those workstations will come back and we've
worked with for the last several weeks with a Furniture contractor that's on state contract to match and marry our plans for the new town hall and renovated space um and the number of workstations we need there and also what we're going to need in um uh the
temporary space comes out to be about 28 workstations that doesn't include furniture for you know offices the town new Township committee room things like that but as far as the overall Works spaces 28 workstations we're also purchasing a few additional panels to
provide privacy uh at 22 East Willow for particular um Personnel payroll things like that um but yes uh it is intended that it is a one purchase and hopefully it'll be back here for the next 20 years 25 years or longer
um the question uh was a good question regarding Town Hall closure just to provide people some semblance of what our plan is uh because particularly this year in 2025 we would like uh to have
the best of all things and So the plan is is that we are moving out on April 18th uh we are currently out the bid for the Environmental remediation of the space um and that will take place over the next few months um and that will
then cease again this is best plans right um we'll cease uh when we close Town Hall Town Hall renovation and addition will be bid at that time for a start date after Labor Day um so that we can enjoy the town hall closure the
summer um and then get started on the real work when it comes to town hall um so there are two separate bids there's two separate projects um but that would start after Labor Day um so that we can uh we can enjoy the space this summer
um just one thing I'd like to just overall say to the tenure committee as it relates to the open space and the sunset and certainly Mr caner will look into the legality of whether that can be established um keep in mind too that the open space uh ordinance allows for
indebtedness based on that on that fund so if there is a larger project that you are going out and purchasing let's say it's a $10 million project and using the open space trust to fund that then you may lose that ability if you do sunset
so just to keep that to to keep that in mind um I think that's I think that's it thank you mayor oh and I'll certainly reach out to those groups on the tail Parkade um I just want Clarity so for ordinance
2700 d25 I think we're saying the substance is good the title needs to be changed from an ordinance prohibiting political party chairs from serving as chairperson on Municipal committees and the section one title should also have that same language but it's
just the title or the substance of the ordinances actually I would like I forgot I would like to add an answer to M Pastor next question the way the ordinance is written it applies to all committees not just those budgetary yeah applies to all committees including this committee and what about the question of
would it be active immediately and apply to if there was someone that was on a committee there was also a chair of political party would they have to come off I would think they should but the way the ordance is written once it's in effect then then the the current
chairperson would have to choose one or the other great I I have nothing furless there's any questions thank you the township committee will now consider consent agenda resolutions are there any comments from the committee in regard to any any items listed on the
consent agenda may I have a motion to approve resolution 25- 072 through resolution 250 8 Z which are listed on the consent agenda so move may I have a
second roll call vote please Deputy Mayor Cohen yes Mr cro yes Mr Sandy yes Mr Stoler per mayor Romano yes ordinance 2698 d25 I would like to sponsor uh this
is the procedure for introducing ordinance on first reading I would like to present an ordinance entitled ordinance 2698 -25 an ordinance establishing chapter 23 open space Recreation and historic preservation trust fund of the code of the township
of nober I move that this ordinance be taken up and passed on first reading and that the Township Clerk be authorized to have the ordinance published in accordance with law in the item and for hearing and final passage on Tuesday April 1st 2025 may I have a
second second roll call vote please I have a this is the time I have a question so if we choose to to do a sunset clause or anything is that then has to start over how does that you would have to re we would have to reintroduce
it if we were going to amend it we' have to reintroduce with sun CLA I think that get material change new Orin we don't have to make that decision now we could I can come back with my research I can say my preliminary research and I don't want to give a def answer was I would it would have had to been in the referendum but I don't want
to give that opinion just from the little a little bit of research I did sitting here yeah so that's so but if the answer is a Sunset and you guys the committee decides to include it you would have to amend it you have to amend and reintroduce at the next meeting did I get a second I second oh
roll call vote please Deputy Mayor Cohen yes Mr cro yes Mr sakandi yes Mr Stoler mayor Romano yes committee C your scheduled to sponsor ordinance 2699 d25 yes thank you UMD like to present the
ordinance entitled ordinance number 2699 d25 it's an ordinance authorizing the township of Milburn to execute a cell tower and compound lease agreement for that certain property located on block
541 and lot one in the township of Milburn um a brief description this is kind of a cleanup um from the U cell tower that the town agreed to put up on JFK um to you know to improve cell
service in the town um I move that this ordinance be taken up and passed on first reading the Township Clerk be authorized to have the ordinance published in accordance with the law in the item and for hearing in
final passage on Tuesday April 1st 2025 may have a second second roll call vote please Deputy Mayor yes Mr cro yes Mr Sandy yes Mr ster mayor Romano yes
committ stolar you're scheduled to sponsor ordinance 27-25 sure do I make the motion to change the title I think I think we just the clerk just not that the titles have been changed because it's substance Chang
tit thank you I would like to present an ordinance entitled ordinance number 27-25 an ordinance prohibiting political party chairs from serving as chairpersons of Municipal committees uh anybody want an explanation
everyone's on Bo on good okay so you know in my belief too you know it's fundamentally in incompatible and poses a conflict of interest so that's why I'm pressing it Forward I move that this ordinance be taken up and passed on first reading and that the Township Clerk be authorized to have the
ordinance published in accordance with law in the item and for hearing and final passes on Tuesday April 1st 2025 may I have a second second roll call Bill please Deputy Mayor Cohen I as I said I think this is an overreach and I also think this is a local version of some
politics of Retribution so I'll be voting now Mr cro yes Mr sakandi yes Mr Stoler affirmative May Romano yes resolution pass and the ordinance was
introduced okay um we have no matters of old business um new business committee men stoer de sure I've been U for a few years now I've been discussing and some people have come and asked about rooftop
decks in non uh in business only settings uh within certain uh distance from uh residential so only using a commercial I wanted to get the temperature whether we had a consensus to move that forward on the dice um you
know really when you look at the benefits for a small Township you know it allows the you know allows for areas that are not functional today to be functional uh Gardens patios uh without going into our Green Space and then also the economic benefit
to the town uh is great um so I just wanted to kind of get some feel feedback from you guys what were you were thinking so I think it's a very slippery slope um we might find ourselves so let's say we
allow it in one section of town we might find ourselves potentially open to litigation in the future for why it's in one part of town not another um I know that this was a contentious issue during the third round of affordable housing there was a developer that was pushing
really hard for these rooftop decks um and I know it was quite contentious then um I grew up um in a town that had a bustling downtown and uh they had rooftop decks and I will say um it would still get
noisy you know even from a few blocks away you could you could hear the noise at night um a lot of times it was you a restaurant or a bar that would have this outdoor sea yeah it was great to go and enjoy and partake but you know I understand that the people that live
around that area probably wouldn't be too thrilled about it so so um to me I think this is an issue that we've you know prior committees have already looked at um and I think the decision was made that this was a bad idea um and I stand by that I think uh I think it
remains a bad idea for our town I just you know in in a city that might make sense in a place like Summit which is a city that might make sense but I think for milour Short Hills it doesn't yeah thank you mayor um I I also don't I think it's a good idea uh we
went through a a huge effort two years ago roughly um you know with with with you know the some of the same same folks um and and the decision was made that we didn't want that for our town um there's a lot of problems and dangers you know
the first is the the Township's uh ability to enforce any conditions or regulations um you know as far as uh consistency um there's fire concerns certainly U there's um you know
Escape Routes for people in a non-emergency there's the ability or this unability of the fire department to fight a fire you know two or three floors up as the town gets built out more with uh with expected housing um you're going to have people you know
living in apartments nearby places and you know if there's a fire there's a there's a real issue there there's a risk of neighboring buildings there's the overcrowding and overuse of a specific site you have a restaurant for instance on the first floor now we're going to double that capacity three
floors up or two floors up or whatever it might be uh there's weight loads of the buildings we don't know and I suspect it would be very difficult to to determine whether or not the buildings can can hold the uh weight there's overcrowding there's chances of
furniture Etc blowing off the top of these I saw an article last week where Apparently one lone cigarette butt uh on a uh on a rooftop in greenage Village started a monstrous fire uh so it doesn't take much um so anyway so my my
thought is not no interest at all I have to agree with with committee men Saki and coso I I think we've uh it was debated before we got here we've come to a decision I don't see any need
to reopen were we were we looking at like overall or maybe just like an like in like a business district or Like a downtown just over like a restaurant not not necessarily residential I know I don't I don't remember discussing it
here I remember discussing it at the planning board which I think got it after and that was even a that was I think it it came on before just before we came and then but then it got to the planning board once once we were there and that was a proposal at the planning
board as a possible modification and and that was voted down as well yeah I mean it just opens Pandora's Box and it's I think tough to put limits on it uh and have those limits be enforceable and potentially hold up
Court over time um you know I just feel like this is something that was litigated quite thoroughly in the past and uh to bring it up two three years later just doesn't doesn't make sense no no makes sense I just want to get your temperature on it you know if building you know 500 to 2,000 apartments or
residents and turning into a city from a Township and using sensible development does it make sense Etc it sounds like it doesn't I just want to reach get to the temperature of the of the committee thank you thank you committee mro zoning review yeah thank you very
much um some of you know this some of don't we have a zoning review board and part of their their OB you know their duties is to look at our zoning codes and see whether or not there should be changes or tweaks made to it uh and the process
that we're using um is going to be um a referral of zoning matters or zoning interests from the from the TC uh you know to to the board so I had a couple that I wanted to to have this committee indorse doesn't mean we have to vote
ultimately in favor of these things but it would just send it to the zoning Review Committee to look at it uh and see what they thought so the first was um you know and this is attached to the agenda was requiring design and material guidelines for you know apartment
complexes we have some language already uh in our in our zoning codes uh but I think it could be beefed up um a lot of it's you know dealing with you know buildings being consistent with the neighborhood whether it's size whether it's the you know the the siding on it
etc etc um the other one that I had is uh not on my list but Mr Mor Al brought it up which is the one code uh about the setbacks you know which I also would like to see referred to the zoning review and the last which is uh somewhat
zoning review but I'll have to you know talk to uh the fire department was um in connection with one of the um one of the fair share housing buildings the fire department told me that um they thought our um fire codes could be updated uh
and made perhaps a little more rigorous to protect people from fires that so that would be again that would be something I talked to the to the fire department about and then come back ultimately you know if they have comments I would I would also I I brought it up numerous times last year
and the process was never clear to me but now that I'm sitting on this committee um I we've established a process that it has to start here I would just like to add that the committee should also be looking at a policy on Accessory dwelling units I
know that the state is considering something and it may override what we choose to do here but in the interim I think we should have a policy that is appropriate for our town I add that in so that that's three I guess the fire department design of material guidelines
accessory dwell last time we talked about potentially not potentially we talked about a ordinance restricting the merging of lots and um I think Mr you do some legal homework on that uh I
referred that to McManaman and SC bman they haven't gotten back to us yet right so maybe we could follow up with them because I think that would be you know if we can do it I don't even know if it has to go to the subcommittee but you might as well bring it up at the subcommittee just so they know that we're considering it um and then also um
doing something perhaps like they did in New York where they prevent property from being held in an anonymous LLC um both of those were okay just follow in in addition to that
and and I certainly agree uh Dave um and you know the the first grade you know the a grade building materials that are being used at Annie says are just fantastic when they presented that it's you know top of the line beautiful building uh you know very similar to to
Ivy over in chadam I don't know if anybody's driven by there but as I said when we were like Annie says I went over it looked at the ivy just beautiful building uh and all a great Building Products designed to go into the neighborhood setting and and just fit
right in it was F it's very good job um and then second though let's go a little step further for while we're here uh what about requirements for existing structures and creating a program of such if we can to get some type of you
know uh uh consistency we don't have any consistency in our town you mentioned Summit and Westfield and some of the other towns prior you know they have a beautiful facades there's requirements for zoning and such you know can we can
we look at that as well to upgrade the uh Aesthetics if you will of our town some towns have design review boards or design guidelines I know Summit has some sort of guidelines so maybe that's something that would would help way what
you were suggesting you know I don't know that you can go and retroactively make people go and change the existing buildings but you can probably set standards going forward or if there's a renovation or something so right or some type of matching funds of something along those lines as well I mean for the paper mill we are investing what $7
million we're getting $35 million worth of upward improvements on that site so some type of give some money forward if they improve that Aesthetics things like that I mean we're going down this path why not for all of course if we could
say fine with that except for the spending money I mean certainly commit himman um Cosgrove and Deputy Mayor Cohen I think part of this is also making sure that we prioritize these within that
group because the list will get long and the list will get um but making sure that um that group can properly prioritize that based on you know perhaps the committee's feeling of what what take what takes precedent um but I also think you know the the summit uh
ordinance some a lot of that too is um suggested guidelines like they provide examples um illustrative which I think is also helpful so um and I know that's been talked about in the past so hopefully that will come up as well thank
you okay public comment this public comment periods allow to allow for final comments from the community when invited to speak to all for your comments please come to the Lector and clearly state your name and whether you are a Milbourne resident Andor property or business owner please do not provide
your full addressing or meetings or are recorded and readily available to the public a reminder that in order to help facilitate an orderly meeting and to permit all to be heard speakers shall limit their comments to one three minute session Charles Bambara a 28y year
resident of Milburn Township um I want to thank bill brazelle for for his efforts and uh no disrespect uh intended at all to him and and the work and his committee has done um
uh I I do want to point out I'll thank you for the reference to the consumer reports article I'll research it and look it up um I do know that several manufacturers Just introduced new models this Springtime so if he's referring to
a a a report from from a year ago it most likely did not include these models um I'd like you to consider if you were to impose a noise ban and require low noise and allow gas powered you can have
the best of both worlds because you can have it quiet all year round it doesn't need to be seasonable seasonal so um I understand the intent I'm just trying to find the best solution I'd like to propose something uh I understand that
the township DPW doesn't own any low noise leaf blowers you buy an electric one and why don't you buy a a low noise gas one and let's have a live demo and let's let the equipment speak for
itself uh but uh I I support quired tools I think there's a a good compromise and there's some research to be done uh we don't have to follow other towns we can lead other towns and come up with something sensible thank you
thank you I believe there's an environmental meeting next week right bill yeah there's a meeting um Tuesday Jeffrey Phil I just basically have like three points to make um first um there was a there was no discussion of the bare
properties case management conference I think occurred on February 20th I recommend that the TC get a copy of the transcript of that case management conference um as for round three in k
there's great opportunities about two weeks ago judge hoe um in the case regarding mayor Adams made a referral for a special adjudicator because he says sometimes when you have a settlement when the two
adversaries are agreeing sometimes you need a third party to look at it I think we should be maybe mentioning that because when we look at the July 30th 2021 settlement public had no input and no one really looked at to the
legalities of it and I think when we go back and looking at it especially in some of the case that came out the last two weeks as to in is interested party fundamental rights that was you know mentioned in the Norcross you know dismissal of the indictment that I think
we go on the offensive and I think and I take it because I don't think really fair share housing center really wants to have a fight with us anymore because they seen we've got a new general a new Army with MCM Scotland and they know what some of the citizens been doing
over the years finally on Mon on Sunday night a former resident did really well at the Oscars he won four Oscars you know but when we was talking about it he was talking about we're coming up to our the fifth anniversary of the
shutdown of covid and I think we as a community should really understand how the shutdown really affected everyone here civility lost and we really had to start building the Community Trust in institutions and I think you know we
should invite Sean Baker here and have a proclamation for him because some of the ideas like he was talking about movie theaters that the public really can't just watch TVs we have to start building the trust in the community and I just throw that out because many of us know people that died many of our many of my
neighbors their families in India were decimated and I think we really should reflect about what we've gone through and how we're going to go forward and bring this community forward thank you thank you hi again Dian Eglo um let's see I hope the Gateway gets done in a reasonable
amount of time because you can go through a thousand tweaks and get a thousand opinions and it would be very sad it doesn't get done you want to have it start by Spring and be finished in a reasonable time so the other thing is when you said the landscapers can only have the seasonal band in the summer so
big deal they have to get a second set of equipment I think that is redundant and also not fair to the landscapers to make them have a set of equipment a gas blower for the leaves and whatever and then they have to buy a second electric blower just for three months in the
summer um rooftop decks was a big deal when I was sitting up there in the chatam road and it was all because people didn't want people looking down to the property I don't know how many um commercial resident commercial areas could even put a rooftop deck I
personally would much rather sit on the roof and sit on the ground while the dirt is coming up and I think that this town just has to advance and you know always stop being like Doomsday Frank I'm sorry you named like 20 doomsday
situations if we have a rooftop deck I think that was cos was a cosg I think it was me oh I'm sorry Mr coso I know you I apologize Frank Dave I know you have been against with TP de because of the chadam road that building is that even being built what's happening there I'm
curious oh Bravo five five years later it's a hole in the ground right now all right well and it's being it is starting that's great I mean we've lost a lot of tax revenue and people ability to live there so I think it's time to kind of get with modern time you can have a rooftop deck you could add extra seating
for these restaurants during covid these some of these restaurants double their capacity but you didn't have cars driving by so I think it's time to allow rooftop decks for commercial properties and you know move on thank you good
night Debbie Frank no bur resident sorry another another remark about the gas blowers I personally think a seasonal ban on blowers makes a great deal of sense there's no real need I don't think to have high powerered uh
leaf blowers in the summertime now I have to say I don't care if there are leaves on my yard I don't care if there are leaves in my driveway this is not an important thing to me and maybe I'm out of Step that way but it wouldn't particularly bother me as for the
generators being on for um electric blowers people people having those generators on the back just because you would have a seasonal band doesn't mean you could also not you could still enact a noise band they don't have to be it
can it doesn't have to be one or the other so you could actually have a seasonal B on glass blowers without having those mobile generators so that's it than Jonathan fa Drive Town resident
for 12 years so I just wanted to address some of the extra remarks that were made about the summer particularly referring to the fact that we don't need gas leaf blowers in the summer that's not true like my trees I don't know depending on what kind of folage you have in your
yard but my trees drop stuff all year round and on my deck on my pool deck patio so something has to be done with that every week and banning gas blowers in the summer we've heard it several times I just want to make one more point it it won't reduce the noise if we switch to Electric there are commercially available powerful leaf
blowers I've confirmed with the landscope as they use them in the summer and they're 65 DB which is measured by American National standards Institute B 175.2 so it's not just the manufacturers coming up with all with 65 DBS when it's really like 85 or something no it has to
meet some objective standard and 65 DB probably can't see it but that was my sound level according to my phone for the last week you can get this app 66 DB so it's not loud and it's essentially exactly the same volume as the electric
blowers so the point really is is that banning the gas blowers won't change the noise if people switch to Electric it'll be the same you can just but you can demand that people use quieter blowers in the in the summer time and the landscape has already spoke to the impracticality of
commercial electric blowers but I want to give you some sort of idea the batteries cost up to $1,000 each you need two for the highend steel model that's going to generate the volume of air that you need and uh that charge lasts around 15 minutes so in order to get through a day if you wanted to
stockpile enough batteries for a couple of leaf blowers you're talking $100,000 worth of batteries um or and that's not feasible like the an landscapers aren't going to go out there and invest in $100,000 worth of battery especially because the technology is still experimental you know they would go broke or we would be paying Triple A
Landscaping bills uh so if they don't do that then they'll end up recharging them on the back of a truck with a generator and you'll have an electric blower that's just as quiet as a loud gas blow sorry just as loud as a quiet gas blower and you'll have a generator running continuously on the back of a truck
charging batteries so you're going to actually be worse off than if you had an imposed a b all right thank you thank you I've printed testimony can I also distribute that sure yeah just a sec I only printed up five yeah members and
I'll up more uh good evening everyone my name is Matt ger I'm a Milbourne resident member of the um environment commission I just want to talk about the uh seasonal restriction on the uh gas powered leaf blowers and refute some of
the intentionally misleading statements that have made tonight this is about noise that's what you and I hear but the issue with leaf blowers is about frequency and if I can make a distinction you can have something that has the same metric exact same number
like a glass of milk and a glass of cola they can have the the same calories they don't have the same nutrition so you can have the same debb of leaf blowers but they have very completely different frequencies so much so that you could stand outside right
now with an electric leaf blower and it wouldn't bother you here but the gas powered leaf blower travels far it travels between homes it travels through homes it travels through your windows and it disturbs everything you're doing in your own
home in the written testimony that I submitted there's a lot of information with reports from this past calender year about the total cost of ownership and independent groups like consumer reports and wire cutter both recommend
electric leaf blowers over gas powered leaf blowers for residential use for small properties and for large properties studies show that the total cost of ownership of the electric leaf blower saves money for
landscapers total cost of ownership they're not expending money on fuel they can purchase multiple batteries up front and still get an Roi in less than a year and I haven't even started to talk about emissions because emissions don't
come from blowing the air they come from the terrible engines the two-stroke gas- powerered engines in the gas powerered leaf blowers so you will hear a lot about decb or studies pointing to blown air those are
canards the true issue is the frequency it's the traveling of the noise into your home and it's the terrible emissions that are polluting exacerbating diseases and harming the public health of this town
this is a quality of life issue thank you thank you hi my name good evening my name is Nya I'm a resident of in the boming area Milburn I'm here to support the seasonal restriction on the gas powered um LEF
blowers um I think they're not necessary in the season that we are proposing that restriction um I'm an energy analyst by profession um I want to see it more scientific than anything else um on everything uh considering all of the
from The Sound frequency and emission as well um somebody had pointed out um that electricity is not um clean as such um I just want to clarify the gas the gas we seeing in gas blowers is different from
gas we use for heating um agreed utility um electricity grids are not as clean as um as we'd like them like them to be but there's a moment to make them cleaner um and that's where all of our decar uh decarbonization efforts and buildings
are going um so we want to be ahead of that game um so just want to highlight gasoline is is what is running the gas Flo versus gas is what is being used for El generation thank you thank you see coming back have a couple things
hopefully I can get through them um I do want to thank the EC for all their hard work um I just agreed to disagree so I just I still want to really acknowledge the massive Improvement this group has done um going back to leaf blower I I
want to talk about frequencies okay so I actually you can actually kill cancer cells with different frequencies Beethoven symphony okay um and I know a lot about that you can kill things like lime disease with frequencies there's German fre frequency machines do that so frequencies I can say my personal
anecdotal opinion an electric blower the frequency is very high pitched and it is whining and very very painful to my ears so um I kind of like think of it sort of being like versus a so it's kind of like you
know frequencies they're they are higher pitched okay so I mean it's basically says Electro blow is generating higher frequency noise compared to gas blowers which produce a mix of low and high frequencies so which means electric blowers tend to be sound more like a high pitch wine while gas blowers have a
deep or more rumbling sound and his to his point they can travel further but you know it's really like we don't really know the answer to that question so I just wanted to say that I also want to talk about um I think somebody else talked about the partial ban you're recently asking somebody to do have two
sets of equipment okay so I think that's really a huge ask you got to either go in big or don't do at all that's just my personal opinion um and then to answer Frank's question about the need for blower in in the summertime so most of these landscapers they come through with
large power mowers that are mulching mowers and they don't have bags attached to them so what happens is the grass spews all over the lawn and they then come through with a blower and blow it out as quickly as possible so what happens is if you were to leave that on your lawn like all over your lawn number
one if you happen to sit on the lawn and enjoy nature you're going to be like having grass stains all over your dogs and bringing grass but more importantly it actually kills the grass so sometimes my landscaper leaves big clumps just because they didn't finish and drives me crazy because I'm like oh dead spot
there dead spot there so there's actually a reason to have a blower and also like in planting beds as well um if you have a delicate bed where you have let's say you have delicate Ferns and different flowers that you know are perennials that you know they drop their petals more easily like you have a bunch
of um you know I'm just pees in the bed whatever and some ferns for example you you will have a really hard time actually trying to take a rake in there and pull out acorns or any type of tree dropping so blowers are very very useful and also who wants to have it it does
the power of these blowers is less so now I have to listen to the worring noise and the whining noise longer versus somebody getting in and getting out and doing it cleanly I do also want to talk just really quickly about the HPC in regards to the Gateway Park um
Bon Ross is on the staff of the town and he should have been consulted in advance of starting designs thank you anyone else before we go online uh Carrie H uh Courtyard 343 M Avenue 35 main U now known as I guess
the Willow and wh building um the ordinance that came about about the rooftops um was sort of a knee-jerk reaction and David your your group and people justifiably for what was going to be next to the Arboretum it was terrible from fire pits to lights to music a
large communal deck facing in the orb it was good reason to not have that um to my knowledge and I'll stand to be corrected I don't believe there's another city in New Jersey that has a outright ban on rooftops there are conditional uses again you want to make
sure that it doesn't face into residential you don't want the fire pits it could be height it could be setbacks right across the street we actually have if you want to call it a rooftop deck or a balcony the ordinance which is here which was passed in 2023 doesn't Outlaw
balconies we have balconies throughout not only the residential districts but you have them throughout the commercial District uh next to the post office there there's ones the book building right across the street and I have photos of people out there this morning um I'm not sure what the harm is let's
just talk about the commercial side office space in this downtown despite the Steve uh from explorers intention the downtown doing well office space is suffering terribly everywhere and I think we all know that generally speaking but Explorer does nothing for
the downtown I own the courtyard I have some flat roofs I have nowhere in my building where it faces into a residential district or Alex for that matter this building I haven't looked at the rooftop of this building as to what the shape is I'm a little surprised that we don't have a rooftop for the
amenities for the employees here uh it's not facing if you look where we're at and where it's facing out to the back or it's facing into this I hope it didn't just cost you some more money um we have opportunities to to do it in the right way communal is different than private I don't want to
get into the debates and the merits I saw getting mandle bam here tonight and and some of the properties he has the movie theater and there's Charles Schwab there I I don't know that there's any plan or any possibility to put you know people on that roof but to help people come work in the downtown I can tell you
the courtyard in any given day I have 10 10 12 people in the building used to be 30 40 people you can work remote you don't have to come in you need reasons to cause people to come in I have a great company now in the building called blue blue um blue Crux from Belgium
sometimes there's 30 people in the building often not but you would cause more people to come to the downtown to live in the downtown I've made the provision within the apartments for 35 main have four private decks Up on the
Roof have applied for permits haven't built them out for such but it can happen and there's all sorts of places the building um on Taylor Park I don't know that that's the right place next to Taylor Park to the one story where the two Asian restaurants are it it may be but please give it consideration
tonight's not the night to I'll speak with each of you individually but thank you thank you thank you anyone good evening good evening you're on good evening everyone uh my name is Al Sharma and I'm a
resident of Glenwood Shor Hills um thank you for paying attention to the environment and public health needs of Melbourne I'm here to support the seasonal restriction of um gas powered blowers um I think enough has been said and I don't want to belabor the data and scientific evidence here but I think
it's a it's a common sensical fact that gas blowers operate with inefficient two-stroke engine that pollute and significantly impact the air quality with their emissions footprint and therefore the public health of our Community um electric leaf blowers are quieter than gas power blowers also
require less maintenance um there's enough data on consumer reports to suggest every year the Technologies U for electric gas blowers are getting better um for example electric brand blower brands are now looking at interchangeable uh electric batteries with other equipment such as lawnmowers
head trimmers Etc so I urge um us to look at the ordinance for seasonally restricting gas powered blowers we're completely understand the technology is still not there hence the ask is for a seasonal restriction it's a win-win Middle Ground practical solution for the
community as well as the landscapers U from economic perspective if you look at the total cost of a seasonal restriction um once you factor in the lifetime cost of gas from a lower environmental footprint and better Public Health many other towns of similar partial uh or
full restriction and I think a seasonal restriction is a step change in the right direction so thank you for the support thank you thank you sorry hi just want to Dean Pastak I just wanted to finish my comment about the long range plan um given that it's
all you know already spring if that long range um planning effort is going to be finished in the next coming weeks is it possible uh to schedule a public meeting somewhere on the calendar before everyone breaks for the summer so that this doesn't get to be a discussion that
happens in a vacuum about what um you know residents Property Owners would like to see in this long rrange planning effort and I say that because um I remember we discussed this in the context of creating a Citizens budget advisory committee and that was rejected
uh on the basis of that this effort would take place so I really do hope that there won't be any um uh timing issue with including the public in a very vibrant uh discussion on our long range
planning um the other comment I wanted to make was on the rooftop decks is um I think there was a really robust discussion and I don't really understand why this is coming up especially when it does appear that we are being sued by
the jury Builders Association which many of the developers are members of if not all so um it's kind of odd timing that this topic is coming up again just when the town is being sued for reducing our uh DCA obligation for very good
technical reasons we're still being sued by the same organization so I just find it a bit um hypocritical thank you thank you good evening can you put your camera on
please hi hi can you see me now yep okay hi this is Venita gangwal I'm a resident of Deerfield section I'm also an appointed member of the Milbourne environmental commission and uh we have heard many many arguments today both uh in favor of
as well as against the seasonal propos seasonal restriction on gas powered leaf lowers but you know I'm not going to argue for or against you know the effectiv efficacy of the battery power or the cost involved with it however I really want that he draw the attention
of the township committee members to this simple fact the simple fact is that this proposed seasonal restriction is proposed in its current form because the environmental commission after having done a lot of public Outreach having Incorporated uh feedback from the
community really does understand that there are concerns with current technology which cannot deal with heavy leaves fall and fall however the point is that during May through September when the leaves fall should be minimal and perhaps some people still need to use it then we need to come to a
compromise just imagine you know the other other extreme the other U end of this Continuum Maplewood has a ban throughout the year and believe it or not there are many people in our town who would like a band just like that but are we proposing that no we are not proposing that the proposal is very
simply using a common sense Middle Ground approach of restricting use of Highly polluting both from an air as well as noise perspective gas powered leaf blowers and allowing people who really must use it to use electric versions instead so this is a compromise
on both sides and in in a community we all need to compromise we all we cannot have it all just like those who want a permanent Bend throughout the year are not having it similarly those who want their right to blow away all the leaves however and whenever they want it also need to learn to compromise because
guess what there have been many many citizens in town who have been trying to get some kind of restriction in place for five plus years and fighting for it they have been bearing this air pollution and noise pollution throughout these years and it's not even from their
own uh doing they have to bear it from their neighbors Lawns and from everybody around them who choose to use these uh noise and polluting equipment so very simple Point here is that this is a compromise and everybody needs to give up something uh to live in a community
where people have diverse opinions thank you thank you good evening uh good evening evening sorry I'm in space I don't know why that is but my name Isle Jacobs and I am a Milbourne resident concerned Milbourne
resident and I just wanted to express my uh support for the seasonal restriction gas power leaf blowers I think it's been beat to you know being not not to beat the dead horse tonight because I know it's been
talked about a lot so I'll keep it um little um some excellent sources and it's all credible scientific data I read it over myself and I think it's a phenomenal way to understand what's really going on because I know there's been a lot of information that's been
thrown around so hopefully this can provide some clarity I think it's a fair compromise and I hope you'll consider it thank you thank you I will now close public comment so anybody have any
comments um oh everybody thanks for this discussion on the uh gas uh Power blowers Matt I look forward to reading your piece that you left for us I actually do want to meet with you face to face at some point in the future before I haven't seen the final document
yet I guess it was submitted to Annette did you pass no I don't think okay because I haven't even seen any of the the final no we have we haven't received it we haven't done it so yeah this is all on the come so I don't even know what the months are yet for this so you know let's we'll do the work and we'll
understand and make the best decision we can going forward understanding the science and the Practical nature of it as well um rooftop decks I'm never going to the peninsula rooftop again after that comment Dave cro made Thursdays after
work that's where I am rooftop Peninsula roof deck um so anyway um uh I think it's I understand everybody's position and you know we'll move it forward accordingly or not it sounds like there's a lot of opposition to it
um Jean Pastak I see no correlation between rooftop decks and being sued by the builders uh so I'm just lost on that um and then uh we'll go for a fair compromise thanks mayor
I nothing further nothing further thank you like to uh because I missed it on the last one answer Jean uh P next question about the uh long range planning uh our goal is to have that
we're we we are planning to introduce the municipal budget hopefully I mean all think on April 1 we have our normal public information session on the budget i' like to have it prepared and ready to discuss with the public at that point um and then um you know certainly we could
start the conversation from there so um and lastly just want to clarify that the township does have uh I actually walked in today uh in our public works for using an electric blower um so I just like wherever that we do have some of
them just so everybody knows could we maybe have someone from the DPW that's been operating these electric blowers come and talk about the efficacy sure and please just keep in mind too that they are smaller handheld they're not going to be anything of a um industrial
or uh capacity but they are smaller but certainly they could but it's what they'll be using during the summer our Public Works yes and that's what they use during the winter as well like they were they were digging out a plant today and they using to claim the [Music] sidewalk um since we're continuing the
conversation on the uh restriction maybe um we could talk about uh gathering information for landscape or for registration like we talked about I can even like call another town to see what ordinance they have in place so we can maybe start just putting a registration in for landscapers so we have way to
communicate with them maybe offer incentives down the road or or and then like I said to you earlier we know who's coming into town you know it's a good idea we have a we have a similar registration process for tree contractors now as as a result of the
revised tree ordinance yeah so we can see what T would just do something like that too okay motion to adjourn