See you later. >> All right. I always love doing that. It's 8 o'clock. Uh go good evening everyone. Welcome to the Feb 25, 2026 meeting of the
Milbourne Township Charter Study Commission, which is called to order. In accordance with section five of the open public meetings act, chapter 231, public laws 1975, be advised that notice of this meeting was made by posting on the
bulletin board and town hall and forwarding to the officially designated newspapers that this meeting would take place at the power center at 8:00m on Wednesday, Feb 25. Meeting details and the draft agenda have been posted. I
would like to have Okorei please lead us in the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisibley
and justice for all. >> Thank you Cory. >> All right. Um uh I will now uh call a roll call vote to note those uh present. Dr. Khan, >> Mr. Miller >> here, >> Dr. Kong is here, Miss Parker Lens
>> here, >> Mr. Tenner, Mr. Ducker >> here. >> I note that we also have Mike Collins of King Mansion Collins in attendance via Zoom. >> Where's Suzanne? She's also in the she's in the audience.
>> Oh, >> good evening everyone. Yes, I think she's uh listed as an attendee. If you guys promote her, I think we'll have the benefit of her as well. >> Okay. Um the record will show that we have a quorum for this meeting. Uh may I
have a motion to approve the agenda? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Second. Thank you. Uh >> oh. Are you all those in favor? >> I >> I thank you. Uh may I have a motion to
approve the February 18, 2026 meeting minutes? >> Second. >> Great. All in favor? >> I. Beautiful. >> February 10th. >> What? >> February 10th as well. >> Oh, we have to do February 10th as well. All right. May I have a motion to
approve February 10, 2026 meeting minutes? >> So moved. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> All right. >> I'd like to make a motion to approve a payment to King Mansion Collins in the amount of $2,480
for legal services rendered up to and including January 31st, 2026. >> So moved. Yeah, >> I second. >> Good. All those in favor? >> I. All right, we're gonna pay our lawyers. Beautiful.
>> We appreciate that. >> Uh reports. Are there any commissioners with reports since our last meeting? >> Sure. I can give a report. Um so the second phase of our process where we interview township
um representatives from other townships has has begun. Uh Shanuk and I last week interviewed a representative uh one of the council people from Redbank. It was an interesting conversation. Um I guess I went in not really understanding they
they were a township that most recently had a charter charter study commission and I didn't know why they had it and so it was interesting to get their perspective. I think it was very different than sort of the the concerns that were raised by citizens in our township. Theirs was more tied to the
fact that they didn't have a strong township administrator and so their their committee people at the time were taking responsibility. They would get divided up and they were essentially running the town which got very political sometimes. Apparently there was issues with the township people not
really knowing who they reported into or getting different conflicting reports. So that was a primary goal of their study. they did ultimately choose a form of government that um they have a elected directly a maya elected mayor a
weak mayor so so basically ceremonial kind of um so there's one mayor and then six council people and they also voted to stagger terms and have a four-year term for the
council people and it was interesting so they said how they do it with the stagger is they had an election election, a special election after the charter. Oh, and it's nonpartisan. Um, which they said wasn't a huge problem for them going into it, but they felt that they were going to be if they were
going to choose a new form of government. It seemed to them to make sense not to have partisan politics because they said something very similar to that we heard from the people that we interviewed in our town. They're like, "Put holes don't have politics, so we didn't see a point of it." Interestingly, when they held their
special election, it what ended up happening anyway is that two groups decided to run together as um teams. And so there wasn't a Democrat or Republican, but there were two parties, if you will, that that ran.
But it's still they said they had to articulate their point because one of the parties or one of the groups in particular affiliated people. They were one of them was all of one political persuasion although nobody knew that necessarily but the other one
was not. it was more sort of divided and so so they they thought that it helped in and and what they said sort of mirrored what some of the people our township committee and former township committee said is like they had to put out points that people had to learn about sort of what the platform was for
each of the groups that ran. So they thought that was helpful. Um, so and oh, and once they got elected, they actually flipped a coin to see which of the people who got elected would actually only serve two years and have to run again because that's the only way you
can create a stacker term at first >> because if you're all elected >> for at the same time. So, so those people um so they flipped a coin and and and um uh so they haven't had so the one downside is is they haven't had much
experience with subsequent kind of elections and things like that because they just started this two years ago in 2023. Um but they said that their issue was solved. So so they changed now they have a strong township administrator.
It's a good person. So everything is running extremely well. Um they said, you know, who knows if they didn't have a good township administrator, whether they'd be saying the same thing, but they're lucky enough to have it. Um so they they haven't had really many
issues. They haven't had any push back from the township after sort of the vote. Things seem to be running a lot better than it was. So I mean that that's the summary of it. U but very interesting because I I don't know. I I guess I assumed that they had a charter
study commission for similar reasons to us, but it but it really wasn't. Um, but still at the end of the day, they they still as part of their study, they loo or at least they heard about and looked into and tried to address other issues that are similar to the issues that
we've been hearing and might look to address. >> Lori, I have I have a question. If how I don't understand how they did the staggered election and then flipping a coin. So all seven so so
they voted to have seven TC members, right? >> Six TC members and a mayor, >> right? Well, that's what if if we decide to have it non nonpartisan or even partisan, you know, that's that's what we have. But how would how did they do
the explain again please how they did the staggered uh >> so everyone ran for office >> so everyone ran >> right they ran whoever got elected they then flipped a coin to I think two two of them >> yeah because there was four so the mayor
was the mayor that that's not an issue because that's a a different so of the four council people they all flipped a coin and two of them had to be stuck with the short straw of having a two-year term. So that then >> six >> six and three >> six
>> yes sorry >> if if I could jump in I I I could actually speak to the staggered >> I'm completely >> yeah sure so under the under the Faulner act structure and and you know whenever you're ready I don't have your agenda in front of me make you louder >> I want to make you
>> so we can hear you >> sounds good if if I know how to do that >> all right >> super loud >> try Try talking. >> Am I better now? >> Oh, perfect. >> Okay. All right. Now I'm screaming. All
right. Um, yeah. So, on the staggered and um, you know, I don't have your agenda in front of me, but when I get into my presentation, it'll have all this content in there. But um, when you have staggered terms, the um, majority of council without the mayor is up in
the midterm. So in the Redbank case, they selected a seven member governing body. So at their reorganization when the new governing body was inaugurated, um four of the members drew the short straw, so to speak, and got two-year
terms and then two council members and the mayor get four-year terms. So there's a statutory process that will um require the governing body members to draw lots if you recommended and a form was adopted with staggered terms as we can get into.
>> Okay. >> And that is only for the first time because once we get into the next cycle then place >> that's exactly right. Once you once they get staggered at reorg that first time then then it'll be on autopilot after that. >> Okay.
Um So, so we have uh we are scheduling we're still trying to schedule dates for the other three municipalities that we're going to meet with, but the idea is to speak with them next week, the week after and then uh prepare the notes and and wrap it up.
>> Uh let me ask you, uh is Verona one of yours? >> I don't think. No, it's it's South Orange. >> I I think Dr. Khan and I will do uh Verona because they have some some similar to us. Correct.
>> Uh so Verona is actually very similar to Red Bank I believe. Um it came up in one of our TC member interviews that one of the >> people recommended that we talk to them. >> Yeah. >> Um >> so we'll reach out to them. Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Good. >> Uh are there any other Oh, sorry. Uh
Corey, do you know if they and just sort of my own curiosity because I guess they Redbank recently had their first sort of post reorg election. >> Not everyone got reelected by the way >> the short straw hook. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. So they they I guess there would have been two or four incumbents. >> Michael, >> um I believe Redbank just had their midterm election. There were four council seats up. the three incumbents that ran ran on a slate with one
newcomer who replaced someone who didn't run for reelection and that slate actually ran uncontested. >> Oh wow. So it wasn't >> Oh. So So that's why there's somebody new. I I noticed there was somebody new, but >> Got it. So one person dropped off and then a newcomer came in. >> Yeah.
>> That's it's kind of interesting that they they were uncontested. you you know based on what we're hearing from some people you would think that you know and maybe the town is made up differently but in our township where 40 approximately 45% of the population is
unaffiliated with a party you know one of the potential upsides is that you increase people willing to run so you but again their issues are different >> they didn't choose yeah >> right >> or people doing a good job theoretically others don't want to run against them or
perhaps you know I mean true >> for a long time we had people who were having longer terms, you know, and as things in the recent past were a little bit more contentious, we didn't have as many folks who wanted to stay on. >> Right. >> True. >> The reason I asked is
>> one of the concerns that came up repeatedly was people were concerned that not having a primary election, you'd have all sorts of people run. And that's sort of the sort of opposite that we heard, >> right? You only had four that all got elected. Okay. That's very interesting
to note. >> Yeah. Wow. I do think I mean it speaking practically you know one of the thing one of the I suppose advantages of the parties is they proactively reach out to people who volunteer and try to say hey are you interested in running and things
like that. So if you don't have a party doing that then query as to whether you get less attended le less people raising their hand. I don't know because in Melbourne in particular we have a strong well depends on the side and stuff like
that strong local parties they might still try to convince people to run even as unaffiliated whatever it is. Well, we Jerry and I have had many conversations about what what will happen in the event that you know the township decides to vote for a
nonpartisan or we decide nonpartisan. What would happen to those party um committees and would they still put forth candidates and that's an unknown for all of us and it would be nice to figure out. I wonder what happened to Redbank with those. So perhaps that's
something we can you know just do a little research on. >> Yeah. Well, well, we actually have uh Dr. Connor myself just interviewed um our former um business administrator and he said I could use his name so it's
so it doesn't um uh Tim Gordon >> and he was a wealth of information and one of his favorite TC
uh committee u uh folks Uh there was a very very strong Republican guy and a very very strong Democrat guy on the committee. And these
two guys along with the three other people, whatever issue came up, they went in the conference room in the back, they banged it out and they cross party lines and everything, whether it was for
good, bad or or or indifferent and they came to a consensus. And again to your point Joanna um it is very interesting about the nonpartisan partisan because those two
guys obviously the Republican you know backed you know you know that one guy and the Dems backed uh the the other guy. So, and then I then we were asking questions about uh the county and
you interviewed you interviewed I interviewed doesn't mean a hill of frequent beans what party is and how much dough uh Milbour Township gets from the county. If it's a county road that needs to be paved, it it gets paid and
everything, you know. Now in terms of uh how much monies we get that's a whole another story you know but was was that his consensus so >> yeah that was that was what Tim basically had to say I think following
Joanna's point from earlier um the role of the party committees I think you know in our interviews at least we saw it sort of evolved through time you know we went back to the early 90s um you know that was a very different time in our town back then. You got a very strong
Republican party. Um and I guess sort of the beginnings of the Democratic party organizing. Then you get to sort of the >> a lot of people stayed for longer terms, right? Mayor was here forever and people were were not unhappy with the way TC was going. So I think people weren't
running against him. >> Well, the one guy stayed for 18 years. >> The one guy and you know I was here for >> he actually said I could use his name. So, no, he did never went. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Uh Tom, >> we did Tom McDerman.
>> Tom Mcder. >> My first, you know, Yeah. 18 years in Milford or whatever it was. I was >> Yeah. >> And people were were not I mean, people were just generally not running against the TC. I think they felt like either they were >> empathetic or we didn't have a lot of, you know, crazy things going on, but
there weren't issues that people were running against, >> right? >> Just running the town. >> It was more simple. And I think there were times when it wasn't like there were, you know, two on two seats on each side, Republican, Democrat, but I think sometimes the Democrats only fielded one
candidate back in those days. So, >> right, you >> I guess the the issue of getting candidates to run as a local political organization that really depends on the leadership in in those positions at the time. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> And I asked I asked this this questions. I said back in the day were there crunches that used to go to the TC meetings and everyone from 1990 to now there's always
creases at these meetings. Anyway, I'm getting off on a tangent. Uh uh are there any other commission uh commissioner reports? Nope. >> Nope. Okay. Uh are there any other reports,
Mr. Collins? Can we have your presentation? >> I would be happy to, Chairman. >> Oh, wait. >> Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. >> Do public comment first and >> yeah, let me let me do just in case members of the public >> Yeah. public comment to speak during the public comment period. Please follow
these instruction in ensure your Zoom display name shows your first and last name. Click the raised hand button. You will be called upon in order and promoted to panelist. Please turn on your video when called to speak. Clearly state your full name and whether you're
a Milbury resident or business owner to facilitate an orderly meeting and permit all to be heard. Please limit your comments to three minutes. A reminder that the public comment period is an opportunity for residents to share their views with the commission. Commissioners will not respond to questions or engage
in dialogue during the speaking time, but will carefully consider all comments at the end of the public comment period. Questions and discussions may be addressed at the chair's discretion. Is there anyone from Zoom would like to raise their hand?
>> If anyone on Zoom would like to comment, please raise your hand now. >> No one wishes to be heard. >> Okay. I now close the first public comment period. Are there any comments from the commission regarding any comments made by the public? Which there
wasn't any. So, we will continue on. Uh, all right. Um, tonight we formally inark on phase two of our study process. Over the past several months, this commission has
completed what we believe is an unusually thorough phase one structured interview interviews with 16 current and former township committee members. the previous administrator and 11 current
municipal employees totaling roughly 65 hours of direct conversation between Commissioner Joanna Parker Lens, Dr. Khan, and myself, Chris Ducker. We have heard a great deal about what
works, what doesn't, and what people wish were different about Mil about how Milbour governs itself. Phase two ask asks a different question. Given everything we've heard, what are our
actual options? New Jersey law offers municipalities a defined set of form form forms of government, each with its own structural free uh features. Before this commission can evaluate which
changes, if any, would best serve Milg, we need a cleareyed understanding of what the law makes us makes available to us. Tonight, we are fortunate to have Mike Collins walk us through exactly
that. Mike, the floor is yours. >> All right, chairman. >> Oh, there it is. >> Thank you so much. Can everyone see the PowerPoint on your end? >> Yes. Yes. All right, fantastic. So, I put together some slides to help um us walk through exactly what the chairman
just outlined, which is uh setting the stage for your phase 2 inquiry, which is taking what you've learned from phase one in evaluating the strengths and weaknesses of your current form of government and now evaluating the different options that are afforded to
you guys under New Jersey law. Um it's just a couple of slides, but I'll I'll go through each and if it's okay, I'll pause after um I get through each slide to see if there's any questions so that we make sure we uh take care of everything as we move along. >> Great. Thank you.
>> All right. So, this first slide is uh to highlight the different forms of government that you have in New Jersey because in New Jersey we have a lot of different forms of government. In the left hand column you have a listing of the traditional forms of government. Um
a plurality of New Jersey municipalities operate under the burrow form and the second most common is the township form that you have in Milbour and there's 141 or so municipalities that also have that. Um there are a few other
traditional forms. You see commission, city, special charter, town and village. uh but none of them have the same prevalence of burrow and township. And those forms uh basically hearken back to the late 1800s when different
municipalities were actually established by charter of the legislature and the forms have not changed over time. What you see in the right hand column are the different Faulner act forms. The Faulner Act is the statutory uh scheme in which
the charter study commission is established and essentially your role is to evaluate whether it may make sense to move from the township form in that lefth hand column, one of the traditional older forms to one of these new modern forms that the legislature uh
created in the 1950s. And those include uh mayor council in which 71 municipalities participate, council manager, about 49 municipalities, and then there's two less common forms, the small municipality form and the mayor
council administrator form. And we'll get into each of the specifics on those, but this slide is intended to provide everyone a frame of reference of where you are today, which is, you know, a very uh prevalent township form, but we're evaluating whether to move from that left column to one of the options
in the right hand column. >> Any questions on this slide? is Mike. I'm gonna ask a question that I kind of know the answer to, but I just just in case people are watching and it's recorded. >> Are there options within the township form? >> Traditional form.
>> Yeah, the traditional township form. >> There are select options. I believe you can go from a five member TC to a three member TC, but besides that change, there's really um you're pretty much fixed in. And on the next slide, we're actually going to talk about the specifics that you currently operate
under on the one of the next few slides. the specifics that you have in the township form and it's inflexibility I'll say. >> Okay. Thank you. I I think it's just important to have gotten that on the record. >> Definitely. >> Uh I have a question. So are all of the
forms so are the only options available to us the forms on the right the falconer act forms are none of the options or which is >> staying in township >> right staying. So, if we wanted to go to a burrow, is that not an option?
>> Correct. Um, and we actually have a slide on this, too. You you guys are uh very very much on top of everything we'll get to. Um, under the Faulner Act, the options you have are recommend staying with your current form, going to a Faulner Act form, or proposing a
special charter and asking the legislature to do that, which won't happen. So, um, you really have the two options of staying in the lefth hand column or moving to the right. >> Okay, gotcha. Thank you. >> All right, cool. So, I will, uh, slide ahead here. So um just to give everyone
a little uh framework reminder um of the charter study commission's role uh it's set forth in the uh Faulner Act. It's the function and duty of the charter commission to study the form of government of the municipality to compare it with other available forms under the laws of the state and to
determine whether or not in its judgment the government of the municipality could be strengthened, made more clearly responsive or accountable to the people or whether its operation could be more economical or efficient under a changed form of government. So, that's the
flowery language the legislature used and encourages you to follow as you uh ask these questions that you're already very much on top of. And I think it was Jerry who just asked the question about the different options. Uh those recommendations are right there under
the green heading. Uh you could do a referendum to a Faulner form. That was the right-hand column. You could petition the legislature for a special charter, which like I said is very unlikely to happen. or you could leave the township committee form unchanged, which is your third option.
>> Okay. >> All right. So, this is a slide that just goes over your current form of government in Milbourne. You currently operate under the township form. Uh so, under the township form, you have five township committee members, uh who are each, um elected to the office of
township committee. Um, every January, one of those five is elected by his or her colleagues to serve as the mayor for just a one-year term. Um, each of the five TC members are elected at large. Um, not using wards and you have
staggered elections each year. So, there's either going to be two seats up or one seat up. Uh, it's kind of a 221 rotation. Uh, township form necessarily uses partisan elections. there is no option for nonpartisan elections. Um
given that the mayor is selected each year, it's a weak mayor. That mayor presides at the meetings but only has a 1/5 vote just like his or her fellow township committee members and uh no power greater than that except for some
exceptions where state law specifically says the mayor gets to do something in which case that governs. And the last point would be uh just kind of these are just bullet points on kind of the broad strokes of um the township form. Uh the township committee possesses the
executive powers subject to a delegation by ordinance. So um in theory the township committee could run the the municipality on its own. Uh in most instances uh the in the township form in modern day uh the township committee has
an ordinance that establishes a a municipal administrator and the township committee then delegates some of its executive powers to that individual on a day-to-day basis. But there's no requirement of having an administrator even uh because the township committee
possesses those executive powers subject to the delegation. So, that's the uh the current form you operate in. Any questions on that? >> I have a little bit of a question. It's not quite necessarily a structural question. Um, for most township
committees that operate under a business administrator ordinance, um, do those powers tend to be generally uniform? Do you have some township committees with, you know, even stronger BAS than others or is that, you know, generally
well specified across towns? >> Uh, it's a fair question. Um, I haven't spent a whole lot of time analyzing different towns ordinances, but I would say there's probably nuance between different towns. Uh, some BAS may have delegated authority to hire certain
employees up to a certain rank. uh they might have delegated authority to complete purchasing up to a certain dollar amount. Um some BAS may not have any such delegated authority and you know whether it's the lifeguards at the pool club or you know department heads
they're all getting hired by resolution of the township committee. So it can vary. >> Got it. >> Okay. >> Should we explain what ours is? It's a ours is weed. We'd have to read through the whole thing. >> Yeah. So, let's leave it for another
time. >> Yeah. And as you compare it, it can be worthwhile to pull out your current ordinance and evaluate that as we get move this conversation along to some of the other forms of government. We good on this slide, guys? >> Yeah. >> Yes.
>> All right. Great. Okay. So, uh so we talked about the township form that you currently have. This is just a slide with, you know, kind of an objective view of potential criticisms that are out there regarding the township form. The first is that there's no option for nonpartisan elections. The law just
doesn't allow for it. Um, the second is that you have an election every single year. Uh, like I said, it's a 221 cycle, so there's either going to be two seats up or one seat. And you know, from a political science standpoint, I I would say the pro of an election every year is
that, you know, there's always some accountability to the public on an annual basis for what the committee's up to. The con would be that you know elections you know the constant election cycle can wear on residents or on the
committee and that sometimes if there's a longer duration between elections it can allow a governing body to kind of embark upon longer term projects without having to be worried about political consequences every year and you know in a partisan form arguably every half year
with elections in both the June primary and the November general. Uh there's no initiative or referendum. Faulner forms have that which allow citizens to sign petitions and either put ordinances on the ballot or block ordinances and require a referendum on
them. So that's a unique uh feature that you could have that township doesn't have. And like we were just talking about on the previous slide, there's no required business administrator or specified duty. So it's very much up to the township committee how to structure things. and you know the governing body
itself could run the town if it wanted to because state law doesn't um prevent it from serving in such a role. Anything on this slide? Um let me So hypothetically if we go for
nonpartisan the TC can get rid of the business administrator or or or lower his duties as a business administrator.
Explain that to me. >> I'm sorry, chairman. I didn't follow the connection between the nonpartisan and the business administrator. >> It it says no. >> Current this is our current form of government. So, right now, um the VA position is not it's not we don't need it. We just chose to have it when you
know Tim Gordon came in and they hired the first BA. So, we we but it's not required in this form of government. Remember when Tim Gordon said I if I come here to work >> Right. Right. Right. You guys, you know, I Yeah. They're independent.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I misunderstood that. >> Okay. I got it. >> No problem. >> I think Mike's point was that >> there's nothing native to the BA is not a native attribute of township committee. So in theory, if three out of
the five members on the TC wanted to no longer have a business administrator, >> right, >> you know, they could reclaim that executive authority because that's that's sort of where executive authority lives under the our current form of >> So that's why it's a potential criticism. >> It's currently there by by ordinance.
And so if you have a majority, you can correct that ordinance doing away with or providing. >> Okay. Sorry, Michael. Can I just ask you one quick question just for the purpose if if the public is watching and they don't
understand what the negative might be or the positive of no initiative of a referendum. Is there like a minute that we can spend on, you know, just I'm just worried that somebody else might not understand what that means. We've been talking about it behind the scenes, but >> yeah. So, it it's basically direct
democracy. So, um, on an initiative, uh, a group of citizens, it has to be a certain percentage of, um, of people who I believe voted in the most recent, uh, assembly election. Um, and so that adjusts every two years. um that that
threshold is set and if you get a certain number of petition signatures, you can either propose an ordinance of your own or you could block an ordinance approved by the governing body and force a referendum on it in a in a general
election or a special election depending upon certain considerations. So, you know, it it this is very much like a, you know, a college policy question. But, you know, I would say a pro of initiative and referendum is it empowers
voters. It allows them to participate more directly. If the governing body is kind of intrigent and doesn't want to do something that the people want, it gives them an opportunity to advocate for it themselves. I would say the con is that
sometimes there's, you know, criticism of direct democracy leading to tyranny of the majority or a really bad idea that sounds great on paper and that you might be able to get 51% to vote for at the ballot box, but in practice is really something that shouldn't move
forward. Um, you know, there I'll give you one example. I'm not going to advocate pro or con, but um my law partner actually is litigating a case involving a um an initiative based um ordinance in Elizabeth City uh that
froze that involves rent control and restricted increases in rent to $20, the fixed amount of $20. Um and the landlords contend that that dollar amount is just unrealistic and they aren't going to be able to maintain rental units because of it. And so you
can kind of think of the pros and cons of, you know, allowing citizens to come up with an ordinance like that and have it voted on versus requiring the council to do it on its own. >> Thank you.
>> I think another example for something like that is banning gas powered leaf blowers. >> So that was something that was very many folks in town were interested in it for many years, but it never got to the TC. The TC actually had a very long process and a public discussion about it and
they ended up doing a seasonal restriction, but you could very easily envision if signatures were if the people were to directly write an ordinance, they might just outright ban it all year round, right? So there's >> got Okay. Thank you.
>> Oh, you're welcome. All right. So, now that we kind of talked a little bit about um your your um your current form in terms of a phase 2 inquiry, now let's get into the Faulner Act options. Uh there are four
different forms like I mentioned a few slides ago, but from a practical standpoint, there may be less options than that. So starting in the top left, you have the mayor council form of government which carries a strong mayor who serves as essentially the executive
branch of the municipal government. And then there are checks and balances that are established between the mayor as the executive and the council as the legislative branch. Uh very similar to the checks and balances that are established in your state government and
your federal government. um between you know legislature and governor and congress and the president. The second to your right top right is council manager that contains a weak mayor which you currently have in the township committee form of government and
uniquely as we'll get into. The executive power is actually exercised by a manager who is essentially um manager is a term specific to the council manager form but is basically your business administrator established by
statute. In the bottom left you have mayor council administrator which I would describe as a faulner version of the burrow form of government. um uniquely it does not allow for nonpartisan
government and so if the commission is um looking to pursue nonpartisan government it would knock that option out so I put it in yellow there and then the last option under Faulner is the small municipality form which carries a strong mayor but the municipality has to
have a population under 12,000 which you exceed so that is not an option at all and I put that in red uh we will get into the um based upon all that, you know, happy to have a conversation on these four, but just know that my next few slides are going to compare mayor
counsel and council manager as I'm presuming that those are probably the two viable forms for the the uh commission's consideration. >> I have a quick question for you. Um, so I understand that the mayor council administrator has no nonpartisan option,
but if for some reason we all decide that we like, and I have no opinion yet, uh, let's say we like, you know, mayor, council, oh, sorry, uh, council manager, can that be partisan or nonpartisan? >> Yes, mayor, council, and council manager both have
>> Yep. They could both be partisan or nonpartisan, and we'll get into that. >> Okay. Marggo, are you going to get into who chooses the manager for the council manager option? >> All right, cool. So, let's jump in because it sounds like everyone is interested in this next slide.
So, this is um a comparison of mayor counsel and council manager. Uh the first slide I have here comparing the two is specific to the mayor or the executive's powers. So, in mayor counsel you have a strong mayor, council manager, you have a weak mayor. Um, in
mayor council, the mayor is directly elected to a 4-year term. In council manager, the mayor can either be directly elected or selected by the council like you're used to in the township committee form of government. The next row is kind of where you get
into a, you know, distinction. So in the mayor council form, the mayor possesses the executive powers just like the governor or the president and that includes a veto power over ordinances. So the mayor can either sign an ordinance or veto it and force the
governing body and the council to override that veto. Just like um in the separation of powers, the mayor and mayor council does not need to attend the governing body meetings and actually those meetings are run by the council president and the mayor does not control
the agenda because he or she has no legislative powers whatsoever. Those belong to the council. In contrast, council manager um the mayor does preside at a council meeting just like the mayor and township committee. Uh but the mayor simply shares the legislative
power with the fellow council members and does not have any executive power at all. Um and that's actually different than township committee because township committee the governing body shares in the executive power. Council manager does not which segus nicely to the next
row in consideration which is the administrator. Um, in mayor council, the administrator serves at the basically the same term as the mayor and underneath the mayor, subject to a 2/3
council removal vote. So, the mayor is allowed to pick an administrator of his or her stripe. That person is there to serve under the mayor and to help carry out the town's operations. In contrast, in council manager, the
administrator, the unelected administrator possesses the executive power of the town. Um, and because that unelected uh person who may not even live in town has that executive power, uh they serve at the pleasure of the governing body,
which is the mayor and council. And it's the only form of government in New Jersey where that um administrator who is called a manager and council manager um is subject to a simple majority removal. So what I can tell you in in practice is that you know you know that
you can lose your job at any time if you run um run a field on four of seven governing body members. So, as much as you may have the power to hire and fire whoever you want, you're not going to do so without getting the proper input from the governing body to make sure that
you're carrying out their wishes. So, uh, state law gives that manager a lot of power, but also gives the mayor and council a unique ability to remove them on a simple majority vote. Uh, any questions on um this slide?
It would be great again for the public to say um how this portion of the administrator and under council manager compares directly to what we have now. >> Sure. So, you know, you you currently,
like we talked about earlier, have an optional administrator, which most township forms in modern day have, which is established by ordinance. And, you know, your uh township committee has the ability to delegate its day-to-day
operations or authorities to that administrator. And that administrator is subject to removal by a supermajority vote. So that administrator does have some protections and if three township committee members want that individual uh removed, they can't. They need a
fourth vote. Uh so that's the structure you currently have. In contrast, in council manager, the manager has state law protections that um ensure that that person can carry out the executive power themselves. And in fact, it says that
individual council members, that's the mayor and the council, do not have the authority to interfere in the executive powers of the town and that they need to act at all times through that uh manager. So, uh you know, you hire that
manager, you're putting an incredible amount of power in that person, and in turn, it's the council's job to hold that person accountable, but they don't themselves have that power. So for the mayor council option, is the
administrator kind of like a lack of better term a political appointee of the mayor for every time the mayor turns over there's a new potentially a new administrator. >> It is structured that way. Yes. So, you know, the the the administrator is
intended to be um someone who the mayor wants and you know, there is a check and balance of allowing the council to remove that administrator by a supermajority vote if they disapprove of the job that person's doing. But the
intent is absolutely for the mayor to have his or her person, >> but that's under mayor counsel. >> Correct. And and how is compensation determined in both these structures? Is that by the mayor in the mayor council? Is it by council approval? Is it
statutory? Um salaries under state law are set by salary ordinance. So the ordinance adoption process would set the salaries and then the ability to pay those salaries would be based upon the budget which we'll get into on the next slide. Uh but essentially, you know, I
think the council will very much have a role in either form of government um by by kind of having the power of the purse. >> Is the administrator required under mayor counsel? Yes, in both forms of government they are statutory positions,
>> but one is a much stronger like mayor position versus a not like keeping the mayor weak as we currently have it >> versus you know >> correct >> the polar opposite of what we have >> correct >> and maybe we'll jump to this slide
because I think it'll answer some of the things you you might be thinking um so this is about this is the the same comparison but specific to the council's powers we talked just about the mayor's power. So in the in the mayor council form, the council possesses the
legislative powers of the of the municipality. Uh the council president controls the agenda of the um council, not the mayor. So the mayor could say, "I want to put on the agenda an ordinance to acquire this property to be
a new park." And if the council and the council president say we are not interested, it's not getting on a governing body agenda because the mayor doesn't have that power. Um the the um mayor council council also has the advice of consent power. So um the the
um department heads uh are nominated by the mayor subject to confirmation by uh the council. Uh, conversely, in the mayor council, I'm sorry, in the council manager form, uh, it's strictly a legislative power possessed by the full mayor and counsel. And like we talked
about, the executive powers belonging to that manager. The the two forms are very similar in terms of having an odd number of um, legislative body members, five, seven or nine, except that in mayor council, it excludes the mayor because that's a
separate branch of government. and council manager. It includes the mayor because the mayor sits as a member of council and has a full vote just like you uh you're used to in township committee. Uh in terms of the legislative power, uh the council and mayor council would vote on resolutions.
They'd vote on ordinances subject to the mayor's veto power. And uh the budget also has an interplay between the mayor and the council. the mayor kind of prepares the budget, but the council has the power to adjust the budget through
its own vote. So, ultimately, the the council does have a power of the purse. Um, and council manager, all three of those um powers are exercised by the full mayor and council without that uh tension between the mayor and the council because it's all one unified
body. And then the last one, I think, illustrates the uh kind of the things we were talking about on the last slide. So in mayor council, the mayor is the hiring authority. So if uh you know if the town needs to hire a new uh public
works director or they need to hire um you know a new three new staffers in the IT department, the mayor makes those calls and if the mayor signs off on the hire, that person is hired and as long as there's appropriation in the budget for it, you know, that can move forward.
Uh, conversely, in council manager, the manager has those powers to hire and fire. Uh, with the exception of specific positions established in state law, those are the manager himself, the the municipal clerk, the assessor, the attorney, and uh, people who are on
boards and commissions. And, you know, I actually a third column might have been helpful here in terms of the township committee, former government. that power rests right now with the full township committee except to the extent delegated to the administrator. So, um kind of three different schemes I would say on
who could have that personnel power between your current form of government and the two options that you're looking at. >> Okay. >> Anything on that? Um, >> seems to me
>> I know we have to educate ourselves on, you know, right now we have five people on a TC, seven or nine members. Um, in your experience, Michael or
Suzanne, uh, have you do you folks have any opinion on seven, five, seven or nine members on the council manager scenario? >> Um,
I would say anecdotally, I mean, five you're used to with your township committee >> for forever. >> Yeah. Um, seven is, you know, in a I guess the burrow form of government, which is the most common in New Jersey, is a seven member governing body. So,
that's not atypical. Uh, nine you often see in larger cities, especially those that have wards. If you read the Red Bank Charter Study Commission report, they interviewed the mayor or former mayor from Franklin Township and
Somerset County. They have a nine member council manager form and there was discussion about it sometimes being a bit unwieldy trying to get consensus because of having so many members. So, you know, I'm sure some people could argue five you don't get enough viewpoints. Maybe nine you get too many.
So, those would be the the pros and cons there. >> Interesting to see. I'm kind of curious and maybe I'll look into it is that they get nine people to run for >> a township if it's a larger crew, right?
If it's a larger city or town. >> Yeah. >> And Ward based as Michael said. Um do you h even want to offer an opinion on the seven because we don't have seven and you said burrows will often find themselves with seven. Have you heard uh because from some the concern is that
seven might be unwieldy. We understand nine input for our time could be really unwieldy, but do you get the same complaint in seven? As some people have said to us, five is perfect, five is great, and some have said, we'd like to explore seven. So, we'd love to get a professional opinion if you have one.
>> Um, I I don't have anything like empirically based or anything, but what I can tell you is that like I said, you know, the borrow form is the most common in New Jersey and that is fixed as six council members and a mayor. So, it is seven by default. And so, you know, there are a whole bunch of burrows that
are a lot smaller than your population, which I believe is 20 some odd thousand that, you know, find the candidates that fill the seven seats and, you know, government roles. So, I I I don't necessarily know that you'd have a hard
time filling the seven seats, but you know, I think it can come down to considerations about, you know, the geographic size of the community. Uh whether there are different interests in the community that need to be represented, you know, whether you're
considering at large versus wards. I I think if you're talking wards, you're probably going to be pushing seven or nine. five probably is is is a little less likely. So, that's a further consideration on the membership. But, um you know, those are just some of the
broad strokes and you'd probably want to talk to some of the governing body members and towns that operate in these different permutations and get their perspectives. >> Question may be out of scope, but what happens if there aren't enough
candidates to serve? Usually um they those issues usually resolve themselves with um honestly with writing candidates they they usually just kind of the issues resolve themselves. Municipal vacancies law does
have a weird provision that if there's a majority of seats on a governing body that are are not filled the governor actually has the power to directly fill all those seats. So there have been a few weird cases where everyone hates each other and they they all hate each other enough that everyone resigns is that when I worked in the Christy
administration, the governor had to fill all the seats in this small Mammoth County town of Roosevelt and uh that was that was the procedure. But uh I I suspect you wouldn't have that problem in a town of 20 plus thousand. >> No.
>> Okay. I think with we have 21 22,000 people and as Commissioner Pillah said we have close to 45% of the folks are unaffiliated or independent
and if we happen to go nonpartisan I think we will get more candidates uh to run knowing that they're not affiliated with with a party. So >> potentially, but as Cy as as as Commissioner Biller pointed out, there
were no other people running right in in the Red Bank. So it didn't actually bring out any more candidates. >> They increased the size to seven, but they, you know, didn't have any anyone contesting them. So >> I think it's it's ironic because when there's a lot of controversy in town and there's issues and stuff, it fires people up, so they're interested in
running. If things are running smoothly, people are like, "Oh, why bother?" Like it's it's running smoothly. >> Status quo. We're good. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Exactly. >> Right. Because, correct me if I'm wrong, Red Bank was burrow before, >> right? >> Okay. So, yeah, they they didn't increase seats, but they got fewer. >> Yeah. Yeah, they went seven.
>> That's exactly right. Yep. >> And they went nonpartisan and got no no more then. So, Got it. Okay. Fair to note. >> All right. Well, that's that's a good point. >> All right. And here's my last slide then, which uh kind of talks on some of the things that you just brought up. So,
you know, once you I you know, if the commission goes through phase two and reaches the conclusion that it will want to recommend either council manager or mayor counsel, there are different, you know, I call them menu options in terms of each form that you would need to
consider and decide upon in structuring your your ballot question. So, the first like we were just talking about is the size of the governing body. Uh you know, 5, seven or nine. Um the division of the municipality, it
would either have to be at large. Everyone's elected townwide or by wards, which has uh certain provisions on how many of the seats are ward seats and how the wards are established. You then have the option of the frequency of elections. So in both
forms, the elections are fixed at four years. And so you could either have it where everyone's up every once every four years and once those folks get in, they get a four-year runway. The other option is concurrent. So you have a midterm election where a majority of
council seats are up. And then in the one-year election, four years out, uh the mayor and a minority of council seats are up. So those are your two options for the frequency. You do have the timing consideration of nonpartisan and partisan.
Originally nonpartisan was always in May when the the the May nonpartisan election. The legislature changed the law and allowed for um November nonpartisan elections. Although the Faulner Act hasn't technically been amended to specify the November
nonpartisan election uh being an option in the ballot crafting, there have now been multiple um towns that have done questions including a November nonpartisan that um have gone forward. Um one thing I'll mention, I think
someone mentioned Redbank earlier. Redbank did put the referendum question on its November ballot in the year that the commission made the recommendation. They actually recommended May nonpartisan elections because they didn't think it made sense
if the question passed to have a lame duck burrow form of government for an entire year and that the May election essentially served as a special election to clear out the uh lame duck governing body and put in a new one. But they said in the report, "We recommend that that
new governing body then move the elections back to November." Uh, which they ended up doing once they got into office. So that's a, you know, a potential option if you wanted to emulate Red Bank. Um, on the um nonpartisan thing, you me
someone mentioned earlier, you know, that you could have a whole bunch of people. So in partisan form of government, you know, it's kind of the two-party system. it's presumed that, you know, someone's going to get a majority or close to it because there's just two parties on the ballot. In nonpartisan, you could have uh, you
know, an unlimited number of people run because there's, you know, easier ballot access. So, the Faulner Act does allow for runoffs. You actually just saw runoffs this past cycle in Jersey City. Uh, Mayor Solomon uh did not get 50%
plus one of the vote. So him and um the second place finisher moved on to a runoff and a few weeks after the November general election, there was then a runoff election between those top two candidates. Solomon got the most votes in that race and then that allowed him to be the victor. Uh obviously the
pro of that is, you know, kind of creating legitimacy to the office holder that there's a, you know, someone actually got 50% plus one. The con being that, you know, elections are being decided in December before the holidays
and it's usually a low turnout election that not everyone may be paying attention to and it costs money. So, those are things to think about. And then the last is if you do go council manager, you could have a separately elected seat for mayor or you could have someone appointed like you have in
township committee. Can I ask you a question that I've been asked by a few people um regarding the way that New York went with um you know numbered voting? So like is that something we just that I I see that's not an option here, but why wouldn't
that be an option for a town like this where >> Yeah, the legislature would have to um would have to change the law to provide for New York uses rank choice voting. So something of that nature would need an act of the legislature. There's been, you know, that that term has been used
by different government reform groups. I've heard it. It's it's an interesting concept, but it it's not really um I haven't seen it gain any traction in Trenton. >> Just wanted to make sure that it gets asked because it's been asked and I want to make sure those voices are heard. >> Sure.
>> I have a question on nonpartisan elections. So, um, I I assume it would look sort of like our board of education election, just having a separate portion of the ballot. Are there rules allowing for slates or bracketing of candidates
and slogans? Um, and is that defined by the state statute? >> Yeah. Uh, it's it's governed by the uniform nonpart the uniform nonpartisan election law, which I believe is NJSA45. And yes, uh, candidates can bracket. I
don't know offhand if slogans are permissible. I know they are in primaries, but I I don't know. I could check for you and get back to you, Jerry, on um slogans, but there is bracketing. >> Okay. Yeah, I my main concern is if you know >> actually Yeah, you can have slogans
because red bank had like red bank first and red bank forward. So, yeah, there could be slogans. >> Okay. Is there a prohibition on having political party names as part of >> Yes, there is. Okay. >> And can I have a followup? Um because people were concerned that with the idea
that there would be, you know, putting groups together. Um it would be factioning, you know, factionalizing the the groups running and it would give those groups an advantage say over a singular person who maybe hasn't formed alliances. >> Um
is is that fair to ask you that question to Okineon? Have you seen that as a concern in other towns? I I can't say from a political science standpoint if I've done a study and and seen it, but I will say that um I I have seen many
instances where there's a slate of candidates that are the number of seats that are up running against another slate and then there's a couple of people running on their own and they just don't get the same traction. But you then have to ask yourself the question, is that because that person's
ballot position or is it because that person is a less desirable candidate that and reflecting upon that the other people on the slate didn't want that person on there. So um kind of like a chicken or the egg thing but I do
where where people run as a slate but only one person gets elected from the slate and the others don't. So >> and that happens. Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you. >> Sure. >> Michael, let me ask you this question. So, we're finished with uh phase one
>> and Commissioner Bill, Commissioner Tanner starting phase two. At the end of both phases, do we get do we have to and I know the answer,
but we have to discuss this as a quorum. So the public can hear us or can we go you know >> two by two >> two by two or something like that and then >> you know and then final and and then
like >> go to you and Suzanne for uh guide us on on a wording and everything like that for our >> Yeah. So phase three. I mean, as a commission, you know, you're going to
want the report to be drafted with a recommendation that's reflective of a majority because otherwise it doesn't pass. And the only way a majority can act is through a legal public meeting. So, I do think that as you get to the end of phase two and entering phase
three, you know, you're probably going to want to have a meeting where we, you know, you guys address the public, share your preliminary thoughts, and perhaps go through these menus of options. That discussion though will be
non-binding because unless the only action that the Charter Commission ever takes that's binding is voting on that final report. So you guys could all say, "Hey, Mike, go draft a report saying we want council manager." And you know, I could draft the report and you could read it and you say, "Hey, we really
don't like this. We want mayor counsel. We can rework that." And so it would kind of be a deliberative process, a deliberative document and subject to change. Although, you know, obviously you're going to be out there expressing some preliminary thoughts to guide us.
Uh, conversely, if there's anything specific like a legal consideration on any of these things where you want attorney client privileged advice, we can discuss that in executive session. But the broad policy considerations here would would definitely be appropriate at a public meeting.
>> So, so we fight about it in public. >> Juke it out, Chris. Don't you want to fight with me in public? >> Yeah, that's what I wanted. >> We do it in private all the time. >> That's true. Actually, >> I have somewhat of a >> it's somewhat related. Um, what is the
process for changing nonpartisan election timing from May to November or vice versa? >> Um, it's actually just a simple ordinance. >> Oh, okay. And is there I guess there's
cuz some someone's term would be lengthened or shortened, right? If it changes if it changes because you're going from >> Yes. Yeah, that's exactly right. But >> somebody gets a short stick. >> If if they change it. So it's like if it if it changes for the first time like
they did in Redbank, there's always a short stick. Yeah. I >> I would imagine the more likely thing you would be doing is recommending May and then moving to November like Red Bank did to avoid that one-year lame duck. And then in that case, everyone's getting either a two and a half or a four and a half year term. So it's
getting elongated. Uh, thank you. Um, I'm going to allow questions from uh members of the public if anyone on Zoom or
>> Oh, wait. Is M are you finished? Michael, >> I am. Yes. Yeah. Thank you very much for your time and I'll stop sharing my screen. >> Thank you. Um, are there any members of the public wishing to ask questions of the presentation? >> You can raise your hand and I'll add you
as a panelist. >> All right. >> Uh, old business interviews, Dr. Khan. >> Yep. Um, I think we touched on this earlier in the meeting. So since last week um we completed two final phase one
interviews. One with former TC member and one with Tim Gordon who served as business administrator from 1985 to 2016. Um so we've now formally closed out the phase one structured interview process but you know all the folks we spoke with I think uniformly all said
they welcome additional questions if anything. >> You mean we can't ask 60 more people? 60 more 65 more hours. >> More more. >> All right. Uh, next item under old
business. Community outreach. Commissioner Park. >> Community outreach. I think we're going to continue to do our, you know, sending out to the public. I I was remiss in my two two list serves didn't make it out because if I had crazy closings and my partner's flights from Mexico were
cancelled. So, I'm a little nervous. But um I will send out a link to this presentation so that people don't miss it. Um and if they have questions, I'll just encourage them to send us the questions and we'll you know if there's any questions I was trying to be cognizant of asking extra questions and
you guys were too in absence of our normal uh attendance group of six people. So I figured we we can ask on their behalf and if anyone has further questions we can continue to answer them. Um and I'll I'll put that email out to the group that I normally put it out to. um as soon as we have links on
our website for this and presumably this presentation will also go onto the town website. >> So we'll make everyone aware that these things are available to them that the phase one has been completed. Um we'll get out there to our networks >> which leads me to Dr. Khan. Can you
please uh >> um so as we discussed at our last meeting um we wanted to put up the phase one interview questions to former TC members on a Google form. So >> that form is going to go live on the township website tomorrow. >> Fabulous. So I'm going to wait for that too. So I'll just send the, you know,
wide array of information and request for questions. I think that'll be perfect timing for it, too. >> Um, and I just wanted to I have this claimer, so I wanted to read it out. Um, so I just wanted to clarify how we are going to use the responses. Um, we'll
read every submission and take seriously any argument or perspective that we haven't already encountered. Um, but we're explicitly not going to treat survey results sort of as a vote. Um, >> it's not a survey really. >> Yeah, it's Yeah, you're right. It's >> right because Michael said it's specifically not a survey. It's
open-ended questions. >> So, we're collecting data and opinions, >> right? Yeah. So, we're not it's not going to be used as a vote or a majority said they want this. It's just >> we want the public to say, you know, this is a good idea because X, Y, and Z,
and we're going to take X, Y, and Z and put it in the set of all of the reasons why something is a good idea or not a good idea, and then we'll use that to inform our thinking, right? >> Um, oh, and yes, uh, so we also added two additional documents. Um, they were based out of Ruckers. One is inventory
of municipal forms of government and the other is municipal charter revision in New Jersey. Um, and these have a pretty comprehensive listing of towns in New Jersey with their forms of government and all the features that Michael explained. Um, it's a little bit out of date. I think it's 2011. Um, but given
that not many charter revisions have occurred in the last 15 years, I think it >> that was a question somebody had at our last public meeting. >> Um, Mr. Becker had asked how many have been you taking the opportunity to change. Um, I don't know if anybody has that trivia question. I don't know if
our attorneys know it or >> um how many folks have engaged in uh in charter study charter studies >> in >> the last 15 years >> I'm sorry like the the number of charter study commissions >> basically I guess if we're if we're
putting our numbers for 2011 since call it 2010 how many have you in your experience do you do you know have have off opted to look into change even if they haven't changed created this charter study commission. >> I think it's under a dozen.
>> Okay. >> Right. >> So, >> okay. >> Interestingly, I think Aspbury Park was one that changed um or at least they had a charter study. Um Tim Gordon actually >> had worked in Aspberry Park before coming to Milbour. So, it was interesting.
>> Okay. Great. >> All right. Um 14. Public comment. Speak during the public comment period. Please follow these instructions. Ensure your Zoom display name shows your first and last
name. Click the raise the raise hand button. You will be called upon in order and promoted to the panelist. Please turn on your video when called to speak. Clearly state your full name and whether you're a Milbourne resident or business owner to facilitate an orderly meeting
and permit all to be heard. Please limit your comments to three minutes. A reminder that the public comment period is an opportunity for residents to share their views with the commission. Commissioners will not respond to questions or engage in dialogue during the speaking time, but will carefully
consider all comments at the end of the public comment period. Questions and discussion may be addressed at the chair's correction. Right. >> Is there anyone wishing to speak? Please raise your hand now.
No one wishes to be here. >> Okay. I now close the public comment period. Are there any comments from the commission regarding any comments made by the public? Since there wasn't any, let's move on. >> Silence was definite. >> Silence was definite. And guess what
gang? I have a motion to adjourn the meeting. >> No move. >> No move. All in favor? There you go. Michael Suzanne. Thank you. Thank you so much. It was very informative and >> Oh, good. Thanks. This will be on uh the
township's uh website. Great. >> This is This is great. Thank you. Thank you. >> All right. Take care. Bye.