##VIDEO ID:dwMl4bhO1RQ## e e just good evening everyone in accordance with Section Five of the open public meetings act be advis that a notice of this meeting was made by posting on the bulletin board in town hall and forwarding to the officially designated newspapers that this meeting would take place at Town Hall at 7 pm on Tuesday January 21st 2025 meeting details and the draft agenda were also posted on our Township website please stand to salute the FL un States call vote please Mayor Cohen here Mr CR here Mr Sandy here Mr Stoler pres mayor Romano here thank you may have a motion to approve the agenda may I have a second all in favor may have a motion to approve the December 17th 2024 regular Township committee minutes may have a second second all those in favor may have a motion to approve the December 17 2024 special Township committee minutes may have a second all those in favor I okay uh we have a presentation on legal fee analysis Mr MC thank you Mar [Music] try to be um concise with this legal analysis um previously did this for the township committee back in 2021 uh which encompasses encompassed The Years 2013 through uh 2020 this analysis encompasses the years of 2021 through 2024 um just a brief overview is the general categories that we have as a Township for legal expenses General legal which is our general Council Antonelli k um for services such as um initial lawsuit defense Oprah complex ordinances uh easement and purchase transactions we also use a labor attorney um clear J Kobe they assist in employment policies and practice collective bargaining Grievances and Civil Service procedures uh tax attorney which is cha um our actual attorney is John Lloyd he represents the Township in tax appeal negotiations and litigation from both residential as well as more complex commercial such as the mall or the Hilton or other large commercial properties like that and we have affordable housing which is at this time um our uh our general counsel but can also be a special counsel at times we just uh brought on McMan Scotland who is uh serving as co-consul on affordable housing matters as well uh they provide assistance in the third and fourth round processes developer agreements both REM lawsuits settlement litigation or other matters related to affordable housing and then there's a a category that um is uh matters that are covered by the insurance carrier our current insurance carrier is the Morris County Joint Insurance Fund um what what generally happens is when we receive um notice of a suit um or a torque claim or anything like that we first provide it to the insurance carrier uh to deem whether they will cover matter or not um and I'll get a little bit more into that later General Council services for the uh past four years on average we spent about $427,000 2415 per year um based on the uh the bar chart for the 2021 through 2024 uh we had a high point in 2023 of 470,000 and a low point in 2022 of 364,000 587 current rate on the uh General council is $185 per hour and in 2024 we changeed General Council to Antonelli caner Rivera um so that again is what we use in terms of op requests um one of the things that drives the cost factor for general counsel and as many of you aware we've set are not to exceed at 450,000 and as you can see it's based on that analysis that we are are close to $450,000 each year um so that is why that number is set at that rate um some of the things that drive the cost on General council is uh complex op requests the township averaged in this time period between 2021 and 2024 uh 460 oper requests um per year um in fact one individual had requested over 2,000 documents in three and a half year period um other cost drivers are the initial litigation defense um or those that are denied by coverage an example of this is also that the uh we had a lawsuit filed in 2021 uh Feld versus the township of Milburn that initially cost the township $14,000 $1 4,235 before it was picked up by Insurance um and is currently uh at a cost of $ 43,98221 bid documents contract review different things like that uh purchase of property uh legal research questions come up that we need to have legal research done um other uh issues are affordable housing environmental matters uh cases that are not covered by Insurance um we have a current litigation bare properties that was filed in 2020 that is not being covered by insurance and has currently cost the township 205 , 224.50 we have a labor attorney um Matt giobi from Clear giobi current rate is $175 per hour um many of our anything that is dealing with Labor uh or lawsuit eppl po uh gets referred to the insurance company and they generally do tender coverage um just a little bit of information on that is our eppl P policy has $20,000 dedu able and a 20% Co insurance on the first $250,000 so the maximum amount of pocket expense on the township is $70,000 for that uh we average cost of $ 42,2 2786 per year uh for that service over the last four years tax attorney um tax attorney is $150 per hour has been that way for quite some time um we average about 253 tax appeals per year that's split between the state and the county uh in terms of tax appeals so the average cost per appeal is about $459 and 84 cents obviously there are some that are much more complex and will cost more over the life of that that appeal and that is just the legal cost I understand there are additional costs when it comes to whether it's a um uh a rebate given or a uh credit future years but that is just the legal cost associated with tax attorney um by the Numbers just real quick we currently have five active litigation matters um three of those are being covered by Insurance two are not um affordable housing litigation costs since 2013 uh are at 1,1 198,000 uh and $85 this includes um mayor Z Falcon special Council that we had hired at one point regarding the New Jersey American Water Company property the special adjudicator um or what used to be called the special Master which is cost Township of $120,000 uh $1,327 um it involves uh the lawsuit that was um brought against the Township from the concerned residents um as well as um U Mr buac the uh it does not include planning Services just so that everybody's aware of that that number does not include uh planning Services uh at one point I think from the audience or from the residents they had asked about the High Center uh litigation costs this is various over the years since 2013 has cost uh the township $ 79,90 uh this does not include a $750,000 settlement 2019 that was paid to the high Center by uh the Township's insurer um it is also just does not include any reimbursement that the township received from uh it's an arbitration case it prevailed in uh against the insurer we are prepared for future outcomes um we currently have a litigation reserve of $538,000 500 can't can't do that right tonight 5389 49 um this is again if there are expenses in the litigation um in a particular year that we uh did not budget for or did not plan for uh we also have an insurance trust uh with $1.8 million this is in in the event of a um uninsured uh outcome that we do not want to have a uh an impact to the taxpayers by having to somehow insert a a large dollar figure in the budget um so we are prepared for that uh should that happen the township also carries a reserve for tax appeals again based on the large ratables we have if there is an appeal of one of those ratables that prevails and we have to pay for that um we have a reserve to be able to deal with that instead of having to insert it into the into the budget but in general legal costs are trending down on average General council is down 19% labor attorney is 35% and the tax attorney is down uh 5% so that is my quick report and legal analysis there's any questions from the T committee i' have answer yeah Alex do you have a dollar figure for I think you said there's one individual responsible for large number of requests over the past few years do we have a dollar amount um on that on the request itself um no um but I can certainly get that for the township committee I don't have that dollar figure figure handy I just have the uh dollar figure for the litigation um uh which is U $45,000 right yeah get that does anyone else I have a question Alex you didn't mention alleged civil rights violations which that I believe that's the labor attorney is that correct that is correct that's included in those labor C um we've had five civil rights uh alleged civil rights violations filed against us none of them have been founded um but all of those add to the expense of the of the labor attorney the five the five active matters what are they yes um the five active matters are Feld versus mbour Township be properties uh the current High Center uh litigation Rupa uh Federal uh litigation which involves 437 Milburn Avenue um hunt miles versus the township of Milburn and Township of milour police department and um our active litigation on the affordable housing thank thank you okay uh committee reports uh Township committee reports let's um committee M second mate would you like to start sure um the planning board uh can the meeting for the month uh because the applicant was not able to uh I think be available on that date so the meetings will resume in February um and for the uh affordable housing committee um we had a close session meeting yesterday uh to go over uh the results of Graham's report and we're going to be setting up a public meeting uh for sometime in February that date will be announced um so that that committee is very much active and uh coming up with ideas of how to handle our next rounds obligations um for the environmental uh committee we actually have the first read of um one of the ordinances that they have uh recommended to the township committee having to do with native plants uh so the first read uh is on there and they continue to work to have more sessions on uh a potential um seasonal Leaf Flow Restriction committee M do you have any reports yes just a short one historic preservation commission their first and next meeting is February 6 that's their organizational meeting it's the first Thursday of that's it thank you thank youy mayor yeah Mr Sac covered the planning board um at the library the bids are out for the second floor renovation um they receive numerous um requests for the documents so that people can bid but uh the bids are due back by the end of the month the opening will be in public at the library in the auditorium on uh February 6th at 2 p.m. um and then at the Arboretum the uh the Indian cooking event is totally sold out so everybody was pretty happy about that and the strategic planning process is getting underway um there'll be a an extended session for the Board of Trustees um in March to uh talk about the strengths weaknesses opportunities and threats that face the operum and coming up with a mission and vision statement thank you committee mror sure let's start uh Recreation committee uh spring and summer programs open for registration later this week uh that includes softball track and field boys volleyball summer camps uh and the addition of girls flag football uh and there's also a new addition of quickball uh which the me Milbourne wck department will partner with Milburn Short Hills Youth Baseball to offer uh we're also excited to announce that we're partnering with Livingston to merge our youth tackle football teams in the West Essex Junior Football League this was great we we were actually uh possibly going to discontinue the youth tackle football and we made a big push uh we had been partnering with Springfield and uh we got pushed out of that league but now we're able to partner with Livingston so it's the best possible solution for those young kids who enjoy tackle football uh the equipment for the LED lights are added to the Juro Park pickle balls uh courts go by and see that's upgraded LED lights for the tennis courts as well it just looks great um no updates on joint Fields or emergency dispatch right now uh flood mitigation uh we'd like to welcome Joseph Coffield as the newest member of the flood mitigation committee it's crazy he's actually a a surve surveyor specializing in flood planes so he's just a good addition and he's already stared to make some some good contribution uh and then based on extensive work of the fmac the the flooding mitigation committee over the past few years uh we have a lot of work to do this year based on the different zones as everybody knows there's basically the West Branch which is downtown which includes the orange Reservoir the east branch which is Vox Hall Road um doing a lot of things there then Van Winkle which is the glenw Washington section uh and then um uh just to repeat hopefully we'll have another public session where which was attended by 50 people last time um update on the special improvement district uh explore milb bur Shore Hills first meeting of the year and reorganization will be on Thursday January 23rd at 6:30 here in this room uh as always business and property owners and residents are invited to participate on the zoom or in person uh the agenda will include a review of the 2024 performance uh kpis uh as well as the annual 224 um annual report uh which all TC members will get ahead of time uh in addition we pick uh heads uh I want to make one comment on the picking the heads uh because uh there's something unique that's happening this year uh just due to circumstance and that's the head of the local Democratic party will also hold is going in for the position of chairperson of our Town's special improvement district uh to me these dual roles create an inherent conflict of interest and undermines the core principles of fairness transparency and impartiality necessary for Effective governance I sat on this board all year last year the Sid's mission is to serve the entire business Community fostering economic growth and development in a manner that benefits all stakeholders irrespective of political affiliation however this dual role possibility raises some legitimate questions in my mind with the ability to separate political interests from C objectives this decisions affecting local businesses should not even appear to be influenced by partisan considerations yet this overlap invites skepticism moreover the role of party leaders inherently involves advancing a specific political agenda they're the head of the the the uh of the party combin combining this with the S Sid chairperson a position meant to be nonpartisan and inclusive poses a risk of marginalizing the very business owners and the community members uh who may not aligned politically the Sid should represent in my vision a unified vision for economic growth not one divided by political partisanship I believe this situation also will discourage collaboration across political lines at a time when our town needs unifying leadership to address pressing challenges this dual appointment sends a wrong message the head of the local Democratic party must recognize the untenable nature of holding both positions leadership requires more than titles it demands integrity and the ability to prioritize the needs of the community above all else it is time to put these interests of our towns first by ensuring the C is led by someone who is singularly focused on economic Vitality of our community free from any weight of political politics for the sake of transparency trust and fairness I urge all TC members the mayor Deputy Mayor to ensure that the Democratic party and the Sid to reconsider this Arrangement uh and to take the necessary steps to prevent any erosion of public confidence and that concludes my reports thank you thank you um our County liaison Mr kamacho do you have any reports report thank you thank you Mr McDonald just a few brief reports uh one just I know the question will come up but uh the presentation that I did tonight as well as uh presentation that Graham is uh doing tonight will be posted on the website tomorrow um just a quick update on PSC and G uh they continue to work in the Rolling Hills Deerfield section they anticipate being done with this work mid-march uh we met with them earlier uh middle of last week to discuss our restoration process um in in an attempt to have as many of those roads restored in full uh as possible between the work of psng and the township uh in our 2025 Road reconstruction um they um do not anticipate any additional work in the Township in 2025 um but as I mentioned to our area rep I'll believe that when I see it um and uh as far as Main Street and the intersection of mbour ab and uh Spring Street go as soon as the weather breaks and we are able to perform that work at night it will be done uh curb to curb on Main Street and as well as that intersection uh at Spring in Milburn um just a quick update for the township committee as well as the residents um we did hire a part-time code enforcement officer that has uh started at the beginning of January Ary uh they are helping us in the off hours um in particular Tuesdays and Thursdays uh from about 4:00 to 7 o'cl and Saturdays um uh that will help us address issues that do come up on the weekend that we generally do not have people here so we're excited to have uh him aboard um he's uh he he holds a bunch of different uh licenses but uh in particular he's going to assist us in being a little bit more proactive about those uh things that that happen when we're not here one of the things just a reminder to Residents uh is that you are required to have your house numbered and that it should be visible uh and legible from the street um and so that is one of the things that we will be going around giving gentle reminders about um that you know it shouldn't be written in script or um otherwise hidden uh if it's you know done nicely you know on a rock and it's illuminated all that is great um just uh there is code for this and we just encourage residents to do that that helps our First Responders get to your address and uh and respond uh efficiently um the uh just a quick update on the town hall renovation and I'm going to try to do this as much as possible um these meetings is um we are in the process of sprucing up uh 22 East Willow um a little bit uh we've gotten quotes on painting we've gotten quotes on a little bit of carpet work and floor work that needs to be done down there um as well as um we are currently in the process of uh working on setting up a network um at 22 East wo uh we anticipate I think it's quite aggressive but we anticipate um being out of town hall sometime in April or May um and um moving to 22 East 22 East Willow uh lot of moving Parts obviously um we're we're uh we're working towards all of that um we've also been meeting and getting quotes from moving companies uh to assist us in that and that um has actually all of these quotes have actually turned out much better than I than I anticipated uh in terms of cost um and so um we are we are we are moving moving along um in addition we are I'm having discussions with uh not only the Municipal Court uh the library and the Board of Ed about possible meeting locations uh when we are no longer in this building uh so that we can have uh space to have Township committee meetings lamb use board meetings and things like that um but but a lot of work going on on that particular project as well and uh just want to try to keep everybody updated as as much as possible that's it thank you Mr K thank you mayor um I'm gonna I don't have a much of a report tonight um our cach planner uh topology is here they'll be they'll be providing a fourth round compliance process presentation and I may have some additional comments following that presentation or answer any questions related to that from this governing body but I don't have any further report thank you public comment when invited to speak to offer your comments please come to the Lector and clearly state your name and whether you are a Milbourne resident Andor property or business owner please do not provide your full address seeing our meetings are recorded and readily available to the public for the convenience of our community there's a remote option if you called in and would like to come comment please press star 6 now if you are attending by computer or elect electronic device please click the the raise hand button and be sure your video is on when you comment all members of the public wishing to speak will be put into the queue to address the committee to help facilitate and orderly meeting and to permit all to be heard speakers shall limit their comments to one three minute session you will be prompted when there's 30 seconds remaining a reminder that this is not a time for dialogue or to debate a matter and this is a time during our business meeting for the public to offer comments May I'm sorry may I make a suggestion sure um given the fact that Mr ped is here to give a report um maybe provide because it's I know it's in the agenda prior to the resolution but maybe allow him to get the report in the event that anybody wants to come absolutely yeahor Mr okay all right um good evening mayor uh members of Township committee uh my name is Graham pedo principal topology here this evening as Township planner um you know as has been alluded to in earlier conv remarks this evening um we've been working diligently to uh assist the township uh in the compliance process with the fourth round of affordable housing um you know I'm happy to give this presentation in advance of public comment that way I'm happy to address any questions that may arise um and respond to those from the public um so first I want to highlight kind of the overall um fourth round compliance process um so I have a timeline uh here that's depicted on the screen to kind of walk through um where we are in the process and what this this process looks like um the third round as many of us will recall uh was a court-based process uh settlements were were completed kind of in closed door negotiations uh with fair share housing center numbers were provided to municipalities by fair share housing center there was lots of uh a lack of clarity around how those numbers were created or you know provided um I want to report that the fourth round is a completely different process um as signed by the governor uh in the spring uh of 2024 um the legislation is much different uh and sets forth a series of steps uh the methodology is codified within the the new statute um and so this process is wholly different than what we've experienced in the prior round um so the first uh kind of process uh that we'll walk through the I've highlighted step number one where we are in the process right now um all municipalities across the state um are to by January 31st of 2025 uh to adopt uh the obligation number uh of how many units they plan to provide over the forthcoming 10year period from 2025 to 2035 uh by resolution and that needs to be adopted by that's the first kind of compliance deadline of January 31st of 2025 um failure to do so uh exposes the township to builders remedy lawsuits uh and the township would lose their immunity status so it is important for the municipality to act uh in advance of the deadline to maintain that immunity for the fourth round period um remember we kind of have distinct rounds to to differentiate from um I want to report uh this evening to you all that 59 municipalities across the state have already done this process um mil Milburn would be the second uh in Essex County to do this process only one other municipality has done it so far in ess6 County um so that's kind of the first phase and that's what we're here this evening and the rest of my balance of my presentation will walk through that but I want to touch on the other components of the timeline um just for the benefit of everybody here uh and you all um so uh once municipalities file uh adopt the resolution and it's filed as a declaratory judgment by uh Township attorney um there is a one-month challenge period uh fortunately I guess the shortest month of the year which I guess is a good thing uh through February 28th of 2025 that is the deadline to file an objection or challenge to the municipality's adopted obligation number um then from March 1st through April 1st the affordable housing dispute resolution program which is a component of the administrator of the courts um reviews The Challenge reviews the information that's provided and either affirms the municipality number modifies municipality's number or rejects the challenge out rate so there's a couple of things that can happen um through that process um rules have been provided but obviously this is a new process so we're not exactly sure how it's going to go um concurrent to that so after the municipality adopts their number uh beginning February 1st I would say through June 30th of 2025 is a very important period for the public uh for the township uh to begin its planning process uh by drafting a new housing element and fair share plan um and uh completing that process by June 30th 2025 the housing element fair share plan is the do that will guide the next 10 years of how we are to accommodate the number that's provided um couple of key components that I just want to highlight that are part of the housing element fair share plan are a vacant land inventory vacant land adjustment uh should you know there be insufficient lands within the township um The Realistic number of what the township is obligated to build will be a portion of the obligation number that's adopted and the add will be addressed through an unmet need process um but again this will be much different than the third round where you know negotiations happened housing elements came out of a settlement agreement and a planning boorder was directed to adopt that document uh this process is going to be wholly different in that um this will be a public process to you know draft uh a housing element fair share plan in a collaborative process consistent with Township Visions goals and its master plan um and so this will be a much more informed public process to think about collaboratively how we address the obligation for Bal housing here in bu by June 30th the deadline um the planning board is the owner of the housing element document so they will have to to adopt it um and uh following that adoption the uh Township committee has to uh pass a resolution endorsing um the housing element fair share plant saying they agree with it and it's good to move forward following that process there is another challenge period from July 1st through the end of August um whereby uh interested parties can again challenge a housing elment fair share plan uh challenging its validity challenging whether it can work to effect effectuate affordable housing um so there's that challenge period and then August 31st through through through the end of this year um is where uh municipality will have to work to resolve those challenges between parties uh directly um or through recommendations of the affordable housing dispute resolution program and subsequently the courts if they're unable to come to a consensus um and then the final deadline that's up here is March 31st of 2026 that is the final deadline for adoption of all ordinances mechanisms everything that's outlined in the housing Outland Fair aare plan to be effectuated um and codified within local law any questions high top level for Gover body members on the process okay next slide okay so next we're going to kind of get into the calculation of the need for uh pursu to the fourth round um so as I mentioned the fourr calculation methodology is codified within law uh this hyperlink is available in the presentation which will be posted online so everybody can click and link to the statute read it themselves um it's uh njsa uh 52 col 27d d343 uh present perspective fair share obligation low and moderate income housing methodologies um how the methodology works at the highest level is first uh you calculate the regional need to be allocated uh to all the municipalities within each region as part of the affordable housing program the state is divided into six regions um each region anchored by an urban municipality and then uh rural municipalities so kind of spanning a spectrum um Milburn is located within region two with Essex Union Morris and Warren counties um and the future need is a calculation determined by the past growth um and I'll explain that calculation on the next slide um and then once you have that kind of number of units to be allocated across the region there's an allocation formula to allocate um to each municipality by averaging uh three component factors the income capacity factor a non-residential valuation change factor and the land capacity Factor okay so the calculation of prospective need units uh for 25 through 2035 um the methodology sets forth that you look at the change in total households um between 2010 and 2020 you divide that value by 2.5 to estimate the uh share for low moderate income households and again this is exactly what is listed in methodology this is not a deviation can't this is what's prescribed within the law um and so that number for region two which I I mentioned is Essex moris Union Warren counties um the total number of new households generated between 2010 and2 20 is 51264 multiply that by 2.5 and you get 20,000 or divide that by 2.5 col these and you get 2056 and that is the estimated number of low moderate income households that need to be allocated to um participating municipalities across region two next slide okay um and the allocation factor is used as a percentage and applied to the regional obligation total um and it's important to note that Region 2 has 104 municip alties in uh SX Morris Union Warren counties uh with those 25,000 2056 units however there are 13 qualified Urban Aid municipalities exempt from assignment of a perspective e obligation in region two um so only 91 municipalities are then assigned the prospective need allocation um in region two as 13 municipalities are not participating they qualified Urban exempt SL okay so to assist in this process and as set forth additional in the statute um the Department of Community Affairs um has a role to publish a non-binding advisory report calculating the methodology um for the fourth round and all subsequent rounds moving forward um this is set forth in statute so that this can this process can be repeated each 10 year interval um so that report was published by the DCA on October 20th um subsequently on November 23d uh the DCA released their GIS uh spatial data map layer um depicting what they've calculated as develop multile lands um within each municipality across the state and DCA has released the company methodology workbook GIS data to calculate the numbers everything has been posted and it's available online and I provided the link to that as well um so once public folks can visit that to ascertain more information and it's very important to note that again these are nonbinding advisories so municipalities may use the DCA numbers as guidance and prepare updated calculations or modified calculations that are informed by more local conditions here with the municipality slide okay so again just a reminder that uh the municipal allocation by is calculated by averaging three factors income non-residential and land capacity now I'm going to go into each of the component factors specific for mil okay so the income capacity Factor uh these get very wordy this is exactly from the statute so it's a little hard to follow sometimes is determined by averaging the municipal share of the regional sum of differences between the median household income in municipality and the same calculation but weighted by the number of households within the municipality essentially what this is saying is H what is the difference between um the lowest median household income in the region and the and milbourne's median households income um weighted by how many households milour has relative to other towns so simplest terms Big Town High income bigger in bigger in capacity Factor small town big income smaller income capacity Factor relative so it kind the The Waiting by household size pulls the income in in the direction um so it's important to note that DCA has calculated milburn's in capacity Factor at 3.06 um and again all of these calculations are set forth in law so it's just simple math exercise there is really um not much to it um so they calculate at 3.06 um and I just want to note that this is the highest among all region municipalities that participating in this process okay again the non-residential valuation change Factor again this is uh pretty cut and dry um determined by calculating the changes in non-residential property valuations in municipality since the beginning of the Gap period in 1999 through the most recent available which is 2023 um and the prescribed data source is to use the um summarized assessment information from the um division of legislative government government legislative services at DCA uh they provide summary tax tables um and the change in municipalities non-residential valuations is divided by the regional change so essentially how much non-residential value increase did the municipality have and what share is that of the Region's total growth in non-residential valuation um so DCA calculated that number um at 4.6 and this is the sixth highest in region two of the 91 municipalities okay uh next is the land capacity factor and this is determined by estimating the area of developable land within the municipalities boundaries and the Region's boundaries which may accommodate development El um and I did just want to pause here because I do have a couple of additional notes um to address kind of the methodology of how DCA did this and this is explained in their methodology document but essentially what DCA did is they took land use land cover data sets from 2020 uh aerial imagery um and they mapped Agricultural and forested lands actually D did they used this data um they screened for undeveloped or vacant parcel opportunities within each Town um they did look at construction permit data to see they had to throw anybody out of that process they did review Open Space Preserve farmlands category one waterways Wetlands Associated buffers steep slope areas and Open Water areas and remove those acreages as well um and then resulted in an estimate of developable land areas within um each of the municipalities that are participating in this process um so for the township of Milburn um DCA and again I just also want to stress that DCA did this Statewide so at a 30,000 foot high level they were not getting too into the weeds of cleaning up the data at municipality um and they estimate just just shy of 25 acres um here in the test of Milburn of 5358 Acres across Region 2 um for a land capacity factor of 046 so this is very very small uh portion um and that ranks 42nd of the 91 Region 2 municipalities okay so in summary um and this bottom line number might be familiar for everybody but I just wanted to kind of show dep pict the calculations for everyone so our income capacity factor is 3.06 the non residential valuation factor is 4.6 the land capacity factor is 046 you average those three values together you get 2.71 multiply that by 20506 and you get 555 that is the map of how the DCA came up with that number um that everybody was kind of aware of acutely in October when the numbers first came out okay all right so what have we been doing on your behalf so um we have been assessing the DC calculations um to kind of go through the numbers in process to make sure that things are accurate and reflect the best available data most accurate local conditions and affirm um or modify uh the calculation uh in due process um so first you can go the next slide that's fine um the first is the income capacity Factor so when the DCA published their report and did their initial analysis they leveraged 2018 to 2022 American Community survey data from the US Census Bureau um and again their report was published at the end of October however since that report was published uh the 2019 through 2023 American Community survey data was published by the Census Bureau on December 12th of 2024 um so what we have done is we have taken the newer data set um and updated the factor accordingly with the latest data um so and as you can see on this slide that um the income capacity Factor again same description um leveraging the newest data um milburn's income capacity factor is now 2.88 uh previously it was 3.06 under the DCA calculation um so we're using the same data same methodology same calculation process um just the newer data yields a different number um next is the L capacity Factor um and again we further assessed following the publication of the JF spatial data by DCA um so we've identifi the areas identified as developable um we reviewed against local partial information local permitting land use approvals configuration of the developable area within the within the property to affirm whether it was actually in fact developable or not um and we have modified this Factor accordingly as well okay before we get into this I have this kind of note slide which I want to caveat um because we're going to show properties and show land and I don't want people to to take this you know and run with certain information so this is kind of my disclaimer statements so the following slides depict lands identified as developable by DCA pursuant to the methodology statute I've SED the section devel cable lands as defined in the statute are um as lands that may accommodate development all types of development not specifically for affordable housing so can you build on this piece of property is the global question to be asked the sites shown that we're about that I'm about to show on these slides are not planned for to accommodate affordable housing development um they are merely satisfying the statutory definition of developable can you build on this piece of property that's all that we're showing here um and the land capacity factor is the municipality share of the total develop developable land in the region and in simple terms does the municipality have land to accommodate development Global development so just want to put those caveats on this before we kind of go into some slides so okay uh I apologize the colors are a little bit tough to see but we'll kind of walk through this um so on the left um is on the left side of each of these kind of sample Graphics um the areas will be shown in red the DCA the developer areas on the right side they will be shown in green and the distinction is that the ones on the left are properties that we have excluded from the calculation and the right are properties that we have accepted and say yes this does appear to be in fact developable based on the information that we've been able to find um so the property on the left you will see is kind of um split up kind of fragmented pieces of land all around the bangry school um this property is developed it is currently in use um the configuration of these areas of this site are not sufficient to support development um so we are proposing to not accept this as a developable area um on the right side is a vacant unveiled property at 33 Rich Lane um we have found no record of uh permits pending permits no approvals um and this is an open lot that is available for someone to develop house for example um here this slide um on the left side is a portion of the Short Hill station I don't know why this came up as a developable piece but obviously our our argument is that you know part of it is covered by parking that is not a developable area um and then on the right side are two two lots that we've accepted um 61 cuga way and 63 cuga way um two lots that are undeveloped and can accommodate um development um on the left here we have the Church of L Saints on white o Road uh again fragmented pieces of the rear of the site that you know are not contiguous to support development um and then on the right are two uh vacant Lots 122 heartworn drive and 32 High Road um which you know could potentially accommodate a new residential dwell um and finally um this example on the left um we again have these fragmented pieces of land all around Temple Vin um this is not developable land this is an existing use site um these are just areas of forest that are around the perimeter of the property um and then on the right we have uh the township own property to the rear lwood school um that you know is has significant areas available for development as depicted and again I want to just note that um you're seeing these voids those are areas of steep slopes or waterways workhorses but you know the resulting area that they have here can accommodate some level of development the intensity obviously would be lesser so kind of those examples um so in going through this assessment um you know we have of the 2 24.7 N9 Acres identified as developable but by the DCA analysis we found that in fact only about 8.4 Acres could be considered developable as such um we've removed 16.35 Acres uh from the L capacity factor and that has revised L capacity Factor down to 0.16 okay um this calculation notes I just wanted to share this um so it's important for everybody to know as we walk through the the earlier numbers um the strongest factors that are allocating growth to Milburn are the non-residential valuation Factor um where Milburn ranks sixth in the region and the income capacity Factor where Milburn ranks number one in the region um that those two factors alone are pulling 511 units to the township um so the land capacity adjustments really can't do too much for us um and that's why I wanted to say my second Point BL factor is the weakest of the three allocation factors for the township um and based upon that strong waiting of the non-residential valuation I think the capacity factors for the township uh just about it's I think it's each acre of avelable land accounts for just about one I think it's about 1.3 units of allocation so even if we only came down eight more Acres we would only come down eight more units from our recommendation uh number okay and then this is just kind of the summary slide which depicts kind of the summation um so our recommendation obviously here is to accept the modified values that we've Quantified uh the income capacity Factor at 2.88 uh the land capacity Factor at .16 revised outage allocation Factor 2.55 um with a reduced perspective need um down to 522 so should say modified perspective need of 522 and I think that's it information so so just sure so we reduced our Our Land capacity Factor by 66% and it only reduced our Our obligation by 1% basically that's correct yeah and then from look at this as from an attribution table which I we should do as the attribution table so we can see how how pungent that is uh I mean it really kicks kicks MB bur in the teeth because of the high attribution for the income M and it really punishes us for increasing incomes and such so I mean we really have to look at that as a as a group because um we're out of land yet we still have to deliver 51 units even if land went down to zero we'd still have to probably deliver 500 units that's right that's correct you know from a community perspective everyone needs to understand that these decks are really stacked against our municipality um and then the 13 I believe you called them exempt Urban qualified or Quan uh those 13 what's the largest is that Hoboken Jersey City so it's important to distinguish that um huding county is region one so in region two um the exemp qualified exemp municipalities and doing this off the top of my head in Essex County it is mclair Bloomfield Nutley Newark Irvington orange orange uh I believe that's it in Essex I have to look at the list for the for the others but for example right right but makes the same point that you know to have that where where you actually probably want the want the need and such that you know and it also reduces your divisor which doesn't help anyone um so just to dovetail on that did you guys do any calculations if those 13 or municipalities weren't exempt in our County what that would do to Our obligation and if not I think that's something we might want to calculate uh because I think it is particularly relevant especially you know for the public to know because the other important thing is you know the people that we elected to represent us uh at the state level our two Assembly women and our state senator we met with them uh prior to this law being passed we you know mayor romano and I went through a number of items that we have a problem with um they listen to us unfortunately um listen is all they do did um they voted they voted to pass this so um you know I think the public needs to realize that there's only so much we can do as a town um and we're doing everything we can we're involved in the lawsuit Etc but at the end of the day residents are going to need to reach out to the elected representatives and say hey this just really is not working for us this just really doesn't make sense um and until that happens we're not going to start to see changes at the state level to respond to your question just I have done the draft calculation I'm just waiting I want another set of data eyes on it just to V my numbers to make sure the math is good before I provide that so imagine that would reduce our number to some degree I guess I just point out that as as um as Mr segman he was saying the the Crux of that lawsuit that we've joined with the other municipalities is the lack of fairness disqualified Urban it's another a that I'm not going to remember but you know for for those 13 municipalities and and the rest them throughout the state that's the whole Crux of the lawsuit that we joined that is still being heard I guess and I it'd be interesting to understand on the income number too which seems like that's the only thing to focus on right now is that we eliminated the top we have what seven billionaires in town we eliminate the top 10 earners 15 earners so so I can tell you that um the American Community survey data um is is a nationwide survey data set and the maximum income that is reported through that is $250,000 so there is nothing reported Beyond 250 for household thank goodness in our and that is yes it is Capa 250 and that is the defined data set within the methodology document to use so now with the non-residential valuation how much does the mall factor into affecting our numbers uh it is a significant portion of the the number the mo brings us a lot of tax revenue at the same time doesn't help us right with this yeah if I can expound P that just you know because it's a good question um you know when the methodology was set up for the second round I believe um the non-residential valuation piece was leveraged as a proxy for employment um whereby the theory is that if you're having expanding non-residential valuation base um there must be job creation or job growth occurring so housing must follow that's that's kind of why that that has been model in that do you happen to know what the change in popul has been over the last 10 years for State the county and um well I mean it is a the I can tell you that I mean if it's divide by two 2.5 so you know there's 880,000 84,000 units of affordable housing designated across the states so whatever math to go back up is would be the growth for the 10e period prior and there's a flow in that logic too with the uh with the uh job growth because even though we have more theoretically job opportunities it does mean that the people who are filling those positions live in this 4 County area so there's really no correlation and and and it it just you know it doesn't mean and then when we if we were to build housing there's no preference for people who live who work in the town so the whole thing just kind of falls on its face good job the only thing I want to add is that tonight's resolution is very mathematic it's very statutory driven driven there's not much discretion from this board it's what DCA provided to our Township planner and then our Township planner going basically property by property and I think our Township planner actually went above and beyond by looking at the income Factor including another year in so I think you know our Township planner did all they could do but from this governing body's perspective at least for tonight the next phase as as you know as Graham mentioned you know involves the planning board and property and vacant land adjustment and how to calculate our realistic development and where it's going to go tonight's vote is simply um the introduction to the fourth round which is largely statutory without much discretion and and it's math and I think again I think you know any action tonight is basically strictly formulaic it's formulaic and again I think our Township planner did a great job in reducing our land by by 2third and also reducing our income factor and that's that's basically the most that any municipality at this point and Jared just so it's clear to everyone that's here in the audience so the number that we adopt tonight that's our perspective need could you explain the difference between the perspective or unmet need versus RDP you know what do we actually have to build which number is it and how how do you deal with the uh sure so I'll Grand take the first s and then I I'll back the on so you know as part of this process as I mentioned as we get into the housing all fair share plan process uh component of that will be to do a vacant land inventory uh and then an adjustment or you know a realization of what can be built based on vacant available land within the town um so you know obviously the there will be a percentage a small percentage of the 522 number um that you know will be accomplished through a realistic process saying there is sufficient land uh to you know build a portion of these units um and then the balance will be on the upit Need side that will be prospectively planned in other ways um but again that's kind of an unknown know at this point I mean we do have a little bit of tea Le reading based on the vacant land process the developable land analysis that we've done um but it will just be a portion a small portion of the 522 value um given how much land remains available Township right now in this round there's a minimum threshold for the RDP right isn't it 20% of the on that need the so the there's some questions on interpretation that's we're kind of you know figuring that that process out um there's the RDP calculation then there's language in the law that that is frankly not not clear here um that it says that says that 25% needs to be accomplished through Redevelopment or development you know for vacant land adjusted communities to identify infill development opportunities or underdeveloped sites uh that can be redeveloped to accommodate additional growth so um there's some Nuance in that and I think that's part of the planning exercise that we're going have to get into um to to ascertain exactly how we effectuate that um consistent with interpretation of the the law based on new want what's the number that the average uh municipality in New Jersey has built against its off obligation think we know that number right I I can't comment on that number I don't know that number offand but I can tell you that uh the realistic development potential varies broadly amongst municipalities based on because it's informed by how much land is available within the town to effectuate that development and it also appears that you know additional guidance is going to come the fact that we have to be we'll be filing a declaratory judgment action we have 48 hours to file that after the passage of the resolution and that Guidance just came out within the last 20 or 30 days so it's it's very like with some of these unanswered we were very surprised to see that we're going to be filing an action in court because that was never part of the statute it was always we'll have to pass a resolution and then go through the process so we'll probably get more guidance as we go um so I think you know Graham's right there's some unanswered questions and hopefully we'll get some some more clarified Direction good or bad uh in the near future and I want to stress that it's going to be a public process that this is not going to be you know something that doesn't happen in a public format that you know we working with the planning board the planning this is the planning board's document I want to stress that the housing element is their document so they will be assisting the drafting of this document as well in the ordinance this is the perspective you talking about a realistic need coming down down the road the ordinance also refers to a present need which fortunately for us is zero but could you explain that since it's in the ords yeah the present need is essentially how many existing you it's an estimation of the number of existing um units occupied by lower Moder income households that are in need of rehab itation or updating or you know need to be addressed or repaired essentially um it relies on a whole series of backend data sets the pums data which is another version of census data through some estimations to identify units that are deficient as far as lacking kitchens or housing or sufficient facilities um so that that's a whole another component that's usually accomplished through um a rehabilitation program within a municipality to you know repair those units or provide for fund allocation to provide repairs for and there's also a component about what that takes into to account whether or not the town has a homeless problem yes we do not and so we're zero uh no that no the present need I don't believe no it's just based on the quality of the existing units it's not based on homelessness sorry I misheard now this question for Jared um so when we file this action can we do so under protest um so as to preserve any RS down the road so in our resolution we reserve our rights to modify our calculation um and what what a declaratory judgment action it reserves a right to amend it based upon any change uh in in litigation including the monville litigation or any further Factor so it says right on declaratory judgment AC of a paragraph which states U you know we reserve our right to amend based on any changes great so we're basically the language is already in there we're protected if the laws change or you know we're successful in the M lawsuit I mean again all this is new ter all this you know has never been challenged before but that is the thought behind it is we're trying to put language in to protect the township um if any of these lawsuits um you know if they decide to you know change numbers in any way we want the ability to amend right and that language is consistent with what other municipalities have included I think ours has a little bit more teeth to it than others but that was the point that that was that was a purpose great I knew all this but I wanted to make sure question thank you thank you Mr P thank you so we'll start public comment and then um if you have questions for Mr ped then he'll he'll answer them when we're old on um and Jeffrey Feld the poet section first of all I want to thank Alex for having the presentation before public comments I want to thank Alex for the presentation on fees and I want to thank um Mr Stoler for his comments regarding the Sid on the round four obligations it's very important and I sent you and the public should understand this earlier to say a draft a a resolution that was adopted Yesterday by another municipality and in their caption they put under protest and I just suggest that in the caption of the resolution because we're saying as our number as modified say and under protest so it's clear in the caption and that we have back up CU another municipality did that last night um I think it's very important that the public has to be apprised of the monfil what I call the Mercer County Coalition litigation this is very hot litigation um and I don't know how the township keeps the public aware um because there's things that have happened in the last two weeks are very strange where one the Appel division denied a stay but put language in here in there because of a um regulations adopted by the hmfa saying the way to get to us usually Appel divisions don't give you a road map saying to get to us because there's a sub real substance issue that has to be addressed go to the HFA ask them to stay the regulations if they don't then you come back and that's in order but that really hasn't been explained in any of the newspapers and what's very strange also the stfe file the certification by dag person who admitted that when they at the regulations they didn't really comply with administrative procedures act they had round taes and one thing I like Ram really a lot because on December 18th when we had the public forum Graham admitted that his hands have been tied by the methodology by the state and that the assumptions that they're being used in this methodology are outdated was done in the 1980s when there was an outflow of population from the urban areas in the last 20 years there's been an inflow where has been most of the construction done in the last 20 years Jersey City Hoboken look at Orange East Orange and new but they have no affordable housing obligations and I think what I'm asking you tonight is to put in under protest find a method that you keep the public aware because there's a very important virtual hearing this Thursday and I think the public should know how they can get get access to watch this hearing we're on Cutting Edge and I was just asked because the report if you can make a schedule because it was on your slides of the properties that can be developed but that wasn't in the report if you can May create a schedule that we know what properties are in that 8% uh number as I'll come back later to address the bill L Issue Charles B uh mbour Short Hills president for 28 years um first I want to thank uh kman Stoler for his comments on the Sid and the and the chairperson for the for the Sid mayor Romano you set a shining example last year when you were elected mayor and you Ste down for your post as Democratic party chair uh and uh I think that the candidate for Sid should follow uh your your high standard and do the right thing in resigning her position even if it's for her tenure as the chair U uh or not be considered for that position all right so thank you again committee committer installer and uh I agree with what you said 100% uh for Graham is Parkland included in in development developable land so such as old Short Hill Park Greenwood Gardens the parth three Golf Course uh I attended several meetings two years ago uh with the recreation committee looking for additional space for recreation uh for ball fields and everything else in the town uh quite a bit of of effort and time was spent on on that study again Graham was part of that but uh there seems to be a conflict between additional land Parks which is sorely needed and uh land for affordable housing so I mean I I don't know where the land's going to come from maybe you know to look at floating some barges in the Cano Brook reservoirs thank you that's hi everyone Richard cybert resident of the town uh I like the idea about marking homes with their addresses I've sometimes drove around town and question it myself far as a moving company my friend owns Liberty Group I don't know if you called them Liberty I think they're the biggest in the country I know the are um so to recap so because our town has big income pays a lot of taxes D6 County doesn't get much in return for it we we get told what to do by the unfair share Housing Organization who are if I'm wrong tell me are they non-elected I think they're non-elected and these people make decisions for you for us right they tell you what we need to do you know have the answer that um I think it's wrong and what Frank said about voting I think it's time for people to consider voting for people that are going to do the best for the residents of this state that's what you need to vote for now and if not this is what happens so we sit here we have great lawyers we have great planners we have great business administrators we have great Township committee members we all are thinking the same thing that why should we develop our town to the point where it's not even fun to be here anymore where teachers in the school are saying I'm not going to teach her anymore if they're going to overload the classrooms and they're going to put a strain on the classes we're going to lose the teachers I mean I just don't get it anymore and it's kind of disappointing and I will just Echo what um Comm committee man Stoler and Charlie said you did bow out of being head of the democratic party which I was so proud of you when you did that and I'll name the name it's Jackie liberg she is the person who runs the Democratic party in town here and also wants to sit on the sit committee and be there too and it's time for her to make a choice pick one or the other because it's true it works this way if you're a Democrat and you walk into a republican restaurant you probably might just walk right by because that's just how it works that's how the system works okay thank you thank you hi my name is Eric urman 30 years Milburn resident 32 if you're scoring from home now I want to address the affordable housing situation and uh and thank you very much for for your data and Analysis um my I want to ask why continue this social experiment why cave to this extortion fair share housing such an orwellian name orders us to build over four 500 more units of affordable housing which computes to four times that number of market rate housing before we have completed the prior round how can they know if this socioeconomic experiment is working let's look at the facts let's look at the demand for the housing that's been built already two multifam units two multif family hous housing uh projects are completed two others are just stared the report card on the two completed the Upton open for years now eight units available for lease the heart a small project 29 units still available for lease or 55% of all the units in that building not even one and a half months of free rent are enticing tenants some of these units no doubt are affordable let's look at another market rate affordable opportunity in quotes opportunity the Metropolitan yes it's Springfield but it's our ugly elephant 29 units are still available at the Metropolitan there it's two months free rent and $1,000 of moving credit still no takers the Democrat donor developers don't lose if these apartments don't fully lease up they barely got any equity in the deal because they sell their tax credits nor do they live in this socioeconomic experiment except one family does have a resident here and I just want to state that why are we supposed to build more of this I reiterate what Mr Feld said that the parcels targeted be made public I'm sure that kyoga and Birch and other residents will want to know that they're in the crosshairs thank you thank you well done Mr Osman good evening Perry erso so I have to say what brought me here tonight was your during your reports committee men staller um I wholeheartedly agree with his um explore reports that just maybe many of my public prior comments expressing my concerns may have slightly shined some light I'd like to thank you as well as former deputy mayor and committee man Sak Mundy and former committee woman prus for their efforts last year by suggesting an examination to the Sid entity which was denied last year by the majority considering the prior and present TC never obtained a written legal opinion or memorandum I strongly feel that this body should consider an examination of the S entity based on Mr stoler's report and for the following reasons so on the 11 uh November 12th meeting I did publicly state that why is it relevant for a certain party to ask candidates if in fact they support the Sid bringing you back to November of 2018 when the then DMD um president clearly stated on the record that this entity is used as a political platform also at the 11 uh November 14th Sid meeting I mentioned also does the current Sid chair pose as conflict I highly recommend you to go back to that meeting to see how the I was reprimanded by the now sitting chair there was a recent update regarding the explore Milburn Shore Hills the Sid the designation of the Main Street New Jersey came with an aomination that the boundaries of the Sid were far too large and that the that they were recommended to be redrawn to confine to the downtown only this ad admon admonition should give rise to the current Township committee to reexamine the ordinance that was approved on August 11 2020 along with the ordinance the boundaries have to be re-examined an examination of all professional contracts all expenses carried over monies detailed in the 20125 approved Civ budget all property owner emails also should the governance and the lack of representation for those who are being taxed and assessed for this entity and lastly whether the Sid chair in fact current local Democratic chair has a dis disqualifying conflict of interest thank you for your time to evening thank you anyone else before we go up hi J Morelli Township resident I'd like to start by thanking the members of the TC for their service to the community and kudos to the public works folks for their response to the snowstorm Sunday night our streets were clean by 7 amm on Monday it was fantastic so please pass along my thanks the charter study commission has been mentioned in the last couple of TC meetings so I'd like to discuss a bit about what will happen in November and what will happen after first the November vote is twofold first to determine whether study uh Charter study commission will be formed and secondly if it is who will be on the commission if the vote is not to form a commission the process stops at that point if it passes five people are elected to become the Commissioners the commission will hold public meetings and solicit inputs from experts Town officials residents on the issues related to the current form of government and the potential Alternatives the commission has a fixed period of time I think that's N9 months to reach a decision on whether to recommend a new form of government or to stay with the current form if it recommends a new form that then goes back to voters to determine whether the new form of government is adopted if voters reject the recommendation of the commission the current form remains if voters choose to change a transition occurs committee man Cohen stated at the last TC meeting that there were hundreds of permutations of outcomes between the forms of government and various aspects and that is probably technically correct however of the 12 official forms of government available only three or so make sense for Melbourne including staying with the current Township form and since the enactment of the fauler act in 1950 the vast majority of over 120 municipalities that have changed forms of government have moved to a fauler form of government more than half of all New Jersey residents reside in municipalities with a fauler Act form of government the two most consequential factors in selecting a form of government are whether to have an elected strong mayor or a weak mayor and whether elections are partisan or nonpartisan in a strong mayor form of government government the mayor is the city's chief executive with the authority to appoint and remove department heads proposed budgets veto Council actions this form of government is similar to the organizations of most state governments in a weak form of government the mayor is mainly the council's chairperson chairperson with little formal Authority the township form of government Milburn has falls into the weak mayor category I'll talk more about partisan elections in the second speaking period thank you good evening Jean Pastak uh resident thank you for the additional resource for enforcement that was so long needed um and the legal analysis uh I just wonder were there any offsets to the um settlement and the legal fees for the one Jefferson property owned by high Center for any um violations of the settlement agreement um I agree with Ben's comments as well I raised my objections at the last couple of meetings at the last TC meeting when I asked you each pledge to support milburn's participation in the challenge to the constitutionality of the affordable housing law came into effect in the spring of last year with affirmative votes from all our state representatives who are Democrats in both houses Our Town voted overwhelmingly against The Dump project and overdevelopment in 2023 we have a chance to change the trajectory of this constitutional overdevelopment mandate on our town by electing New State Assembly representatives and a new governor in 2025 I want to implore our residents and voters to ask what are the affordable housing and overdevelopment positions of every candidate running for state and local offices and governor of New Jersey the gubinatorial candidate that our mayor romano and Deputy Mayor Cohen have endorsed as I understand it is house representative Mikey Cheryl and by the way she lives in Monclair and exempt Urban municipality I find this is somewhat Troublesome because of what Cheryl has said publicly uh this is what she said when she launched her campaign in Patterson um quote we need more housing in New Jersey in contrast Senator John bramnick Republican gorial candidate says on his campaign website under the heading stop overdevelopment overturn the recently enacted housing mandates passed by the legislature that will continue to overdevelop our communities burdening the infrastructure crowding classroom and straining Emergency Services I'd also like to remind our Township voters that our fair share housing settlement agreement reached in July of 20121 was approved by all five Democratic TC members after a successive several years of 100% Democratic member TC's these people were selected and backed by the Democratic committee under mayor Ron's leadership as chair of the mbour Short Hills Democratic committee while mayor romano and other Democrats went through the shock and awe of the 2023 election of Ben and Frank and subsequently changed your views which is much appreciated how can we trust this going forward as judge Sor said at one of the hearings last year if you don't like what's happening to your town vote them out thank you thank you evening everybody best hey Ben that was uh a wonderful statement and uh thank you for making it known to everybody um amazing presentation really I wish other planners in our didn't you amazing it's Top Notch um I wanted to speak to a critical issue tonight um it's about sustainable development in Milbourne and um the committee members responsibility for milburn's current residents best interests not Builders not Mikey Cheryl's campaign Trail for Governor not Joe defend Dean cenzo's initiatives for Essex County nor alexion colazo Gil's identity political espousing we already provide a massive amount of tax revenue at Essex County we don't owe them to test their C40 Smart City initiatives or affordable housing building schemes that are not actually affordable case in point is some of these uh apartments at two-bedroom and three-bedroom are $8,000 for the 80% of the people and that's why there's a lot of vacancies because you can buy a big house for that um monthly at least um so going back to that um our TC exists to serve msh and not the far-left political machine I'm fatigued of seeing political ads with some TC members standing in alignment with these folks who are listed and others that are trying to build irresponsibly irresponsible properties such as RPM's 9 Main Street and the high Center massive project I want to understand tonight which TC members support responsible development and the residents needs milber Short Hills is a Charming Suburban rural looking Hamlet that is quickly morphing into a quas Suburban City in many ways more urban looking than Summit and clearly not as robust and beautiful we do not have the infastructure to support this and it will be the downfall financially of this town the agenda is never about maintaining and honoring this beautiful town it's always appears to be about what some Outsider politician developers vision is of our Hamlet we are being managed by political agendas of the far-left and we are becoming a political model of what that should be without asking residents and that is being done in a stealth way slowly bit by bit I don't want to see our TC members supporting a governor like Murphy um who allowed nursing home residents to die during the pandemic or ignored countless female uh prisoners being raped by prison guards or taking our rights to view a government documents easily or standing behind Mikey Cheryl's drive to urbanize our neighborhoods with her high density housing agenda I want to see our TC members always vote for Milburn I think I don't think any residents expected the Metropolitan to be what looks like a communist Community modern day version of startart City dropped on top of Glennwood residence is a mammoth draconian structure done by a remedial designer hired to get a project done that only confers visual pollution on our Township how did we keep a grocery store out for years and not have control over the size and design of this property why are the people who signed off on this project still floating around floating around the place how do we get a religious organization off in F for $500,000 in fines for $1,000 for $1,000 in exchange for making them apply for variance that would never be offered to a resident we are treated like plees when we go in front of the zoning board over six Ines thank you I'll finish later Phil kers Milbourne resident uh a lot of politics tonight I just wanted to know though where I can find the guide to which restaurants are democratic and which ones are Republican so I can choose the ones that I align with when I go out and eat next time so if you could if you give me that information i' really appreciate it thank you good evening uh Jerry Kung Short Hills resident I wasn't intending to speak tonight but the prior speaker Mr kers actually reminded me about an incident that happened while I was on the campaign Trail for Ben and Frank in 2023 so I believe what ended up happening was um Ben worked really hard that day and visited a bunch of business owners downtown and um a bunch of them agreed to put up sacky solar sign stoer sack sorry um and you know that's a great thing for our businesses to be involved in our local government to understand what's going on but interestingly enough that same evening um a bunch of business owners emailed the campaign saying I was sent this email from the Sid saying they're going to come around doing signage inspections so interestingly enough our town which has a reputation for being LAX on zoning enforcement all of a sudden the day political signage went up in businesses decided to crack down on political signage now when the Sid executive director was pressed on this um he sent out an addendum saying oh by the way political signage is exempt from this due to your first amendment rights except that that wasn't included in the first round of the notification and so this communication actually sent a chilling effect to a bunch of the businesses that Ben and Frank had you know they they went downtown and they spoke to all these businesses and they said I like what you're saying and they put up their sign and you know I think it's just a terrible thing for a polit a nonpartisan special improvement district to be politicized and to be weaponizing their Authority by scaring business owners into taking down political signage I think that's just terrible and I think that if we're going to live in a state that you know espouses freedom of speech we should actually look into this conflict of interest and you know I wasn't I wasn't going to come up here today to expound on thoughts about conflict of interest but I I I think that there you know the actions of our Sid actually historically have shown that there there could be some issues and I think that you know the appearance of impropriety is with having the local Democratic chair be in charge of running the Sid with this history of you know I what would you like to call it partisanship um I think that that's not a good look for this town so you know I I would encourage all the TC members to think long and hard about this um I you know I personally would like to hear each individual TC member comment about whether or not they think there is conflict of interest um and you know maybe they can also talk a little B about how they feel about a sid pressuring Township businesses to remove political signage thank you thank you folks nice guys finish last de Roa talking about meot uh I just like uh mayor Romano to resign as mayor only because uh I'm a transportation specialist and New Jersey Transit has a lot of problems and I want you to spend 100% of your time on New Jersey Transit I don't know if you've been on New Jersey Transit lately but it is hell at times no no honestly have you been to New njt it it it they cancel too many trains it is late and you are a manager there you are public relations look this is it New Jersey Transit not that you're doing a bad job here but I wish you would spend 120% of your time there be a committee woman give it to anyone else M Michael M Deputy Mayor anyone but it is a pain you know it's it's awful uh by the way you talked about unfortunately people who passed away uh I remember awaiting to President Carter never and it should be mentioned he was he was president and he did some good things may not agree with him politically whether democrat or republican but it was not mentioned you know at our at your meeting I watched the meeting I was in monair at that particular time with some of the people in mclaran uh RP oh by the way uh you think about one of candidates for uh Governor Clair what this guy spilling he NG n JEA uh some of the um New Jersey Educators things that they have to say about this gentleman and some of his positions as far as a portable housing and rent control so he started on what his idea have you ever looked at the rent control uh statute that mclair has just through it it's Miller one anything like that I'm sorry about that I am a pain I'm sorry about that have a great evening thank and nothing against what you've been doing but I believe in this kind of stuff thank you byebye anyone online good evening can you put your camera on [Music] please good evening you're muted how's that perfect okay great thanks first I want to congratulate all of you there going out in this weather it's 14 degrees and it's 9 nine degrees windchill factor so it's a major role there so congrats on that I had a question about the land use uh Cal calculation that was made it sounds like we now have uh 8.44 acres of developable land down from the 24 Acres uh that were originally slated so I I think that's the right number 8.44 8.33 acres and on that we're supposed to put the 522 affordable uh unmet need units and then if you you know that's that calculates out to like 65 units per acre I don't even think that's legal um and then if it's a net normal you know 5 to1 ratio we seem like we have a need of like 2600 units if you multiply the 522 by five right uh so that's a added units of 2600 units in a town that has no land available so I just want to make sure I understand that calculation is that the one that they're using uh to make to have 522 affordable units on the 8.43 3 acres and it sounds like that would require you know every every development be 100% affordable housing and maybe you could clarify that maybe I got that wrong it just looked like that sound to me like that was the mathematics of it cover that great thanks thank you [Music] [Music] good evening hello Dominique yep Dominique erso 514 Milburn Avenue um I don't speak very often if I do something has to leave me absolutely shocked and disgusted by how some people in this community cannot simply just be respectful coexist agree to disagree I don't even know what to say um to whoever Mr hirs is and your comment people and business owners in this town are not going to accept personal attacks on people's businesses based on political support supporting a friend um Unity within a town it's ridiculous okay people aren't going to stand for this anymore there there needs to be equal balance of respect and civility within the community you cannot say you're going to support ex business and not another business based on political view no one's having any Alliance to make anyone divided it's not right it's not respectable for me to watch that made me call in of how disgusted I am at your comment it's not okay and I'm very disappointed that the mayor allowed a comment to be said like that okay B all businesses should be promoted in this town it's not right it's divisive it's dividing tactic it's not okay that's what makes people afraid to speak out and say what's right for a town when people say something vicious like that to attack people's livelihood or business in this town that have been loyal people it's not acceptable it's not right that type of behavior should not be accepted anymore okay thank you thank you I don't know what she heard I um we will now close public comment um I'm gonna start I think um I took Mrs Mr kersh's comment as a joke um that's the way I took it but I'm sorry if it offended um other people I also just want to say that um again I resigned as chair as of the democratic committee because I couldn't devote the duties um to the job as as chairperson elections and and everything else takes a lot of time and I didn't have the time to do it anymore and that's why I resigned um that's all I remember for now but um commit still want to start uh sure and by the way for Mr car I missed two trains were cancelled today du due to I don't want you to resign and so but two trains were canceled so I was lucky to get here in time on a New Jersey Transit coming out of pen um uh you know coming out against or with the separation of the democratic head and the chairman of the Sid was difficult for me to do because I see the good that the Sid's doing I sit on there I go through the kpis uh but also too I do truly think it is a conflict of interest Mr K um and and the rest of the folks in here and um what Mr Kong said Not only was it a few restaurants we actually had some events that were cancelled if you guys remember uh and we were told quietly that it was due to the political affiliation so from my perspective is when I got set on this TC I left the r behind I left the D behind I'm doing what's best for the residents as a whole all the constituents not 80% not 50% not 20% 100% And to do that effectively I have to give my open honest opinion on everything based on 30 years of business experience mik children my life in this town sending three kids through the high school having a fourth now in middle school it's a broad base of experiences and running for Township committee uh so uh to Mr Kung um you know that's why I came forward on this issue as well uh and uh actually I thought rette you had stepped aside because of the uh conflict of interest I I was not aware it was just due to timing issues so you know from that standpoint I said it before I would have rather been because of a conflict of interest um I'd love to hear what the rest of committee Deputy Mayor May uh Frank and Mr Cosgrove have to say about it um and Jay thank you for keeping the nonpartisan commission Square in Focus thank you very much appreciate that and uh thank you that's all I have yeah I'll just say certainly I don't think first of all as as it was pointed out L their political signs are exemp I don't think there should have been any pressure to take down political signs as a business owner I do not think it's a good idea to do that because for every customer you get you may lose another one but as a as a business owner you know you do whatever you feel is good it's good for your business um we don't choose the the people on the S the who who's the chair of the Sid board um I think you have vote there as as a member there and I assume you'll vote my report I yeah so you know um I don't I you know I don't know that there's anything we can do to say we think and if we think it's a conflict of interest it doesn't mean that it carries it carries the day the C is an independent board and they will choose who who they want to be a chair well do you think it's a conflict of interest excuse me do I think it's a conflict of interest it depends on what the actions that are taken I don't I don't know I don't you know it's not like if if it becomes a case that you know um you know more more events are held or you know decorations are done in front of democratic businesses of course it's a concept I don't see that happen thank you um committee Sandy oh boy it's been a lot of a lot of political rhetoric tonight and uh I guess I guess it is the season for that um so let's let's dive into it here um so um you know I think Mr Cohen brought up something that's very interesting you know he said the Sid board is elected you know they elect their own chair well um I think what's important to realize is the township committee put the Sid in place the township committee controls what the structure of the C is so if the township committee desired and wanted to put in rules you know regarding who can and can't be chair if they also hold other positions I suppose we potentially could do that um but that aside I you know I want to be careful about saying that heads of political parties shouldn't be involved in committees because I think some committees it's perfectly fine if the Committees are advisory committees if the Committees don't control a budget then you know that's fine um however when you have a head of a politic party a local political party uh on an advis on a committee that's not advisory in capacity and actually has a budget and can spend money uh in in town supporting businesses uh not supporting others um I think it does absolutely raise an potential appearance of impropriety and you know me personally if I were in that position if I were in Jackie's position um I wouldn't want anything to do with being chair of that board because because the appearance of impropriety is I think pretty significant there and you know it really makes people wonder you know what your motivations are that coupled with the fact the story that Dr Kung told uh is 100% true uh it's something that Ben and I had to deal with and um you know I think because we've had incidents like that it just makes the public all the more concerned that you know yeah maybe there is a a conflict of here um so my recommendation would be uh for you know uh Jackie if she wants to be the chair of the Sid then perhaps she should step down as chair of the uh Democratic committee um or you know if she wants to stay as chair of the democratic committee then perhaps she should step down from the Sid um but you know we there's just too much um partisanship uh in town as it is and having something like this happen um I think just makes that worse um so I appreciate all of you that spoke up against that and I certainly hope that some of you will go to the Sid New York meeting and express your concerns there um and yeah I would say to the rest of the committee members you know I think some things have been brought up maybe we should re-examine the structure of the Sid and see if there are things that we need to revise and modify um let's see so um with regards to the affordable housing uh number so Mr asman you you asked you know why Cav to this extortion what I want to make abundantly clear is the vote that we're going to take tonight to accept the number is is being done under under protest um if we don't pick a number and go through the process then we'll be subject to builders remedy lawsuits and from what we you been advised by Council those Builders redy lawsuits could be significantly worse for the town than going through this process um and I will tell you I have firsthand knowledge that there is a developer lurking around that wants to build 800 units somewhere in town right so if we went the way of Builder remedy a developer like that could come in they could sue and next thing you know we have 800 units if we go through this process we get to do things to lower our numbers we get to utilize bonus credits we get to choose you know the size and scale of the developments we get to choose where they are um you know we can declare certain areas in need of Redevelopment we can use Pilots to help incentivize developers to adhere to you know guidelines that we set forth so it gives us a lot more control if we go through the process now we can completely disagree with the process we can disagree with the laws and we can fight those laws and we are but we at the same time do need to do what's best for the town and irrespective of everything else we're doing to fight against these unjust laws we do have to go through the process because that's the best chance for our town to come out of this on the other side unscathed or minimally scathed I would say I think no town is Gonna Come Out And scathed um let's see um Mr Mr um so there's something that you brought up that I think uh I have heard before and I think there's a misunderstanding and I want to clear it up so the eight acres of developable land is based on a bunch of factors that were outlined in the law and there's formulas those eight Acres aren't where we have to build the 500 uh you know and 22 units in fact we don't actually have to build the 522 units once we get our big land adjustment and calculate the RDP we'll have a smaller number that actually has to be built what we then have to do is zone for or provide the opportunity for the construction of up to 522 uh affordable housing units and we have a variety of uh tools at our disposal that we can use to do that and this is something that the uh affordable housing advisory committe is going to be having public sessions on I imagine the TC at some point will have a public session uh on on this as well um so you know this is something where right now once we adopt this number the real works starts and that work is to figure out how we're going to fulfill Our obligation assuming the laws don't don't change how we're going to fulfill the obligation and if the laws do change of course we reserve our rights to um make changes to our our plans um so so I want to say about that um so thank you all thank you Comm Costco I I was GNA comment on the fair share items but Frank I think covered it um the only thing i' I'd have a a little difference with them is is um I'm not worried you know about somebody putting 800 units on a site um I think that got us into trouble the last time with the first settlement when people were talking about 300 units at at the Silverman property that that those were never realistic numbers and why not but that would be only distinction thank you Mr Mr P uh I I don't think anything I think I think committee M sa M did an excellent job of addressing the fure housing questions I'm certainly can amplify or as some specificities but I think he's he the moniker of under protest I kind of like that it kind of sets that to I know it's embedded in the agreement to slap that on the front somewhere I mean so I mean the title of the resolution has no bearing on the resolution itself but if this committee wanted to change the name they certainly can move to amend the title of the resolution before we vote on on it I would legally I would I would say it would not affect the resolution either better or worse but if this committee would like to take that suggestion from Mr Bel it certainly has I wouldn't say legally there's any issue with that so the time to do that would be right before we vote on it yeah there was just one grand attention planner there was just one question from Mr van regarding the Parkland question and the conflict with the open s Recreation plan which we did um so first I do just want to clarify which I didn't note in my comments but just to reiterate um the DCA in their calculation of the map of the developable lands did screen for and remove anything that was already encumbered uh as an open space property Parkland or Recreation Area um so those properties have been removed uh regarding the conflict um with the open space and Recreation plan um that's why it's very very important for us to get to phase two so that we can distill this whole thing down into a planning process that's formed locally by our plans yes the DCA has identified areas that we have identified as open space and Recreation opportunities as developable um but as we move into the housing element fair share plan that's where our plans are going to inform one another and we're going to say no this property is reserved for recreation opportunities so we're not going to make this available for housing opportunities that's going to have to go somewhere else so that's where I just wanted to connect that because I know we've heard comments feels disjointed but we're going to distill this down together and make this a real true planning process and that's where this fourth round is significantly improved than the third round process so thank you thank you one one quick thing just can't do unmention um so uh you know Dominique um Miss Miss erso um I took what Mr kersch said to be a joke uh it was clearly sarcastic now I understand if you're watching this on video that may not have come through but uh I just wanted to you know in defense of Mr kersch I personally took that as a joke don't think he actually was asking uh for restaurants to label themselves you know democrat or republican I mean that's just Preposterous so uh I just wanted to put that out there and during Second public comment you know Mr kers can comment on that but uh I just didn't want to let that go uh as it was because I I feel that was misunderstood and I'd like to second that as well I've spent a lot of time Mr ky's a neighbor I don't think there was any um malice in that statement it was a somewhat of a humorous statement uh you know being sitting on the explore board and having to vote I hope to see everybody Thursday I think the question was asked I hear from you day what your thoughts were because I have to think all through when I go into this meeting do you have a stance at all on whether uh it's Ani appearance of impropriety at all or Ben I don't look at this as a conversation I was to answer these guys you I think you make a valid point okay that's all I want to hear thank you the township committee will now consider consent agenda resolutions are there any comments from the committee in regard to any items listed on the consent agenda may have a motion to approve resolution 25-39 through resolution 25047 which are listed on the consent agenda so move may I have a second second roll call vote please Deputy Mayor Cohen yes Mr cro yes Mr second Landy yes Mr Stoler affirmative May yes thank you so resolution 25-48 we want to yeah so I'm going to I'm going to suggest uh what the motion should be then I'm also going to ask if it passes that um we need to attach this resolution to our decare to our judgment action that we're going to be filing hopefully tomorrow so we'll try to turn around a new resolution and get it signed so we need to accommodate that procedurally so I think if the committee agrees I think the motion should be to amend the title of the resolution to add the word quote including quotes quote under protest close quote between the word resolution and Committee in the title so say resolution under protest committing to the Department of that's that would be the so I guess if there's a motion before that Amendment I'll make that that motion uh to make that Amendment as um as byoun and I would second that okay uh roll right on the on the motion to to amend the title Deputy Mayor Cohen yes Mr cro yes Mr sakandi yes Mr Stoler affirmative mayor Romano yes and I need a motion to approve the resolution as amended okay so um may I have a motion to approve resolution 25-48 as amended motion to move as amended may have a second second roll call vote please Deputy Mayor Cohen yes Mr posro yes Mr SA yes Mr ster affirmative mayor Romano yes okay committee M amend are scheduled to sponsor ordinance 2697 d25 I'd like to present an ordinance entitled ordinance number 26972 an ordinance to amend and supplement the general code Township of mbour chapter 18 and subsection three entitled building native habitats and promote the use of native vegetation on Municipal property uh so the purpose of this ordinance is to amend the Township's General code chapter 18 to add subsection 3 to promote the planting of native species on property owned or operated by the township of bilberg that's the key here property owned and operated by the township of milber does not apply to any personally owned property this ordinance will require that 70% of newly procured plants shrubs ground cover and flowers be native species and set a target of 70% of new trees planted in public spaces um should be native as defined here in in addition the ordinance will promote the building of native habitats and Township property and help promote similar commitment by Township residents though uh through its commitment to utilizing native plant species so again in no way shape or form does this restrict what you can plant on your property as long as it complies with all their ordinances you know you can do what you want this is simply uh there to um encourage the township and require the township wherever possible and there's all sorts of exceptions uh for Corner cases where they're needed but it it really uh helps uh the town you know set the bar and the hope is that residents will follow them all so um with that brief explanation I move that this ordinance be taken up and passed on first reading and that the township clerk be authorized to have the ordinance published in accordance with law in the item and for hearing and final passage on Tuesday February 18th 2012 may I have a second second roll call vote please I just just want to point out there's still a typo in there so that needs to be fixed so the grown on public property rather than frown okay and I'll Deputy Mayor Cohen yeah yes Mr CCO yes Mr secondy yes Mr Stoler affirmative mayor Romano yes thank you okay so all business we had the open spun face uh open space fun and committee ordinance which we still dra it's still I that's okay I I um yes I did uh draft a an ordinance uh for the township committee's consideration discussion comments editing whatever it may be here um it is a combination of both the corona ordinance as well as the uh Madison ordinance um as it relates to uh establishing the fund itself as well as the committee that administers the fund so happy to take any guidance questions edits um so I think like we've done with our more recent committees that we formed um my recommendation would be to have the resident members of the committee come from all many Elementary School distri um and then I also think that the appointments should be by majority of the township committee um of the residents yeah yeah well for any any Township committee appointments for the board sorry committee uh just to be clear so that would be under membership make it five instead of three um Township residents each from each of the the elementary I have an issue with that you know I know we've done that before but the elementary school districts are not by any means the same size so deer the Deerfield district is probably twice as large as the two districts in milour South Mountain and and Wyoming so it's really not fair to to I mean I know I understand what we're trying to accomplish and we do want a cross-section of people certainly and I and it's not as though I have a better way to do it but I do want to point out that it's it's not you know they're not equal um Deerfield is a much bigger school and the district is much larger I understand that but what we've seen in the past we didn't have um these guidelines in place um oftentimes the level of representation would be you know even even less equal so in absence of a better way of dividing up the town and believe me I'm open to having a discussion of how to do that um it's at least something that I think will you know help us strive to make it a little bit more representative um we just have it open to I think we need to come up with it I agree with you yeah maybe we have to sit look at a map and yeah and figure out a different way to I I agree with you we want the the geographic uh dispersal but I think we need to come up with a better way to to do that than using the school districts as a proxy well yeah we I think we can look at it but from an equitable point of view uh whomever is on that committee you know it's going to have anay and it's going to be probably um consensus view as well uh so I I think being exclusionary we're over representing one of the districts uh out of the school system is a is a noo from my on as a starting point for me I think all five and I would even go a little further maybe someone from uh uh the Sid someone from the recreation somebody you know additional people but it's something we have to do efficiently and effectively sounds like we need to have some further discussions on this uh so perhaps pairs of two we can discuss this uh offline and um come up with some recommendations of how we want to disperse the committee um you know I I I also think there's probably other elements that we need to take a look at um what is the timeline for when we need to get this yeah uh the it is done with the um actual tax bill in the fourth quarter okay so this wouldn't actually you have you have some time but I think you also want this group to get together and start you know working on um you know that that that plan the the the just just to be clear in this version it does have Board of Wreck it does have environmental and his I'm saying don't exclude them for the sake of getting five different soers Maybe add people so going from three to five to I just also cautioning the committee and happy to meet with with everybody in twos or however we want to do it um but also just caution about the size of the group as well um making sure that you don't overexpanded because even even there if you had five members you could reduce the number of tou committee members to one which I've seen in other communities or um you know other ways of doing that but um happy to discuss that and again this is this is derived both from uh the Verona and the Madison ordinances that I think have mentioned in the past and so um but again happy to sit down and talk to and in terms of approaching the Township in a different way than the school districts um I am I guess you know we'd be happy to take a look at that and I think certainly that's something Graham and I could do um but I think sort of what that factor is is it population is it number of households you know what like how how would you like to see or geographic area um you know which I guess it could be split up in any one of those but but uh but again just lines of communication are open whatever you want to see happen here at the day that's why it defaulted to the elementary schools it's there it's defined and it's it's used it's far time we take the leadership in some of these items as well instead of follow Madison and whomever else I mean we have the framework I understand but we have some of the smartest people in the world living in our community and we should be able to take advantage that similar to Chaz on the flow mitigation and other people Renee on the environmental etc etc so let's take advantage of the strong amount of people we have in town okay thank you so new business uh Mr pedo proposed zoning ordinances yes um there are a couple of ordinance I is it one or two you I just don't have the three there's three ordinances before you this evening um these are all um concluded work products from the zoning codes examination sub Committee of last year um I don't have the list of which three you all have for scheduled for review this evening but I believe that it's the um multif family um definitions one yeah if you have a copy of driveways and Park thank you sorry this is from uh November of last year so a little bit okay very good um yeah so um in summary um we have three um proposed ordinances before you this evening for your consideration so in summary that first the residential driveways and parking uh one and two family residential properties are exempt from site plan requirements um stipulated under DRZ Article 5 um so those properties are not subject to the standards for driveways and parking areas set forth within DRZ Section 5 um so we need to cify those requirements elsewhere in the zoning ordinance um so there are applicable standards this amendment centralizes the existing regulations into article 6 which is applicable to one and two family Residential Properties and allows for enforcement of a regulatory framework the amendment establishes this new section is DRZ 67.7 um driveways for single family dwellings and two family dwellings further section includes a variety of new standards to govern and clarify residential permitted uh driveway and parking conditions um um do anyone have any kind of high level questions regarding thisin how did you come up with the you know Dimensions setbacks grade is this in response to something that was frequently coming in front of the zoning board so right now the way so as I mentioned at the top of my comments right now there are no codified standards that are enforcable um given that the location of these standards is in DRZ Article 5 Article 5 is only is only applicable to those applications that require site plan approval at the planning board uh modifications to one and two family dwellings do not require mod uh appearance by at the planning board um those things can happen as a right through a zoning permit or other modification so um the zoning enforcement uh did not have a statute upon which to rely um they were kind of using the site plan standards in Article 5 as a guide um but it really was not an enforcable condition so now by locating these in article six which is the zoning standards which is applicable to one and two families those standards now apply to those properties as well so has there been a concern you know I'm just wondering is there a problem with the status quo obviously there's no guideline things could go off the rails right but is this in response to something that you know has been observed throughout town or is it simply you know we were going through and this was on a a list of things that we want yeah so I mean as I can mention you know as part of um the zon code examination sub commmittee the zoning officers a participating member um you know and um it has been identified by staff that there is this Gap um you know and that the ordinance was deficient in providing some of these standards for Residential Properties and you know kind of became a whole I guess in the regulatory framework questions regarding that first one okay um the second one um is that is related to building type definitions um so there are several factors that created the need for this Township to have clear definitions for permitted residential uses and building typologies um as part of the um overlay zones that were um prepared you know as part of the set as the outcome of the settlement agreement um there was a new definition that was created called just blanket multif Family Housing Development um however that did not stipulate um as far as Clarity and configuration of how those units should be constructed or configured um so what we've done is we've added a series of definitions um to the ordinance to kind of address um the typology or you know the the look and feel of these um residential dwelling configurations um So within the ordinance we um have revised the definition for apartment um for dwelling attached um for multif Family Housing Development and for dwelling to family we have now added a definition for that we did not previously have a definition for dwelling to family I sent to a couple of questions perhaps you I don't know if you saw I did see the questions yes if you want to State the question so I can yeah sure so in that one particularly I guess my concern was you know we had that uh that development come before the planning board which was four it it it qualified as a multif family development but to the average person it looked like four single family houses which are not allowed in that district and they connected by carports So reading reading that um reading the new definition it didn't sound to me like this new zoning ordinance would have prevented that and that was something that was was very important to us because it allows for having um multiple units connected by RS and that's what they were claiming that was so I would have expected to see something to say that to be really more specific to say that multif family developments are contain units that share common walls yeah so I can so to your point um what we've done is in the in the revised definition for multif Family Housing Development um I can read the entire thing the last the most important is the last sentence that we've revised so it says um a building containing one or more dwelling units occupied are intended to be occupied by persons living independently of each other or a group of such buildings where multif family housing development only includes residential uses at least three units shall be within any building where multif family housing developments are incorporated into a building with another use or uses less than three shall be permitted this is for mixed use configuration such as in the downtown where we have a commercial space and then two units above or one unit above less than three um and then it says except we expressly stated dwelling units in a multif family housing development shall meet the definition of an apartment and that's where the the apartment definition is leveraged to define the configuration and the apartment definition now says a dwelling unit in a building containing three or more such units attached via one or more common roofs walls or floors dwelling unit shall be provided access from a common Corridor a common lobby with the stair or elevator access shall be provided that would not have prevented it because it says or roofs and they had a common roof and they had a common access point car yeah well depends you def a corter right so they were claiming that that parking you know the thing the the land in front of them that was like I think but it's the last sentence that we' added that that does it it says a common lobby with stair Andor elevator access shall be provided for multi-story buildings in that configuration those were twostory buildings which would have had to provide a common Lobby or elevated board work I guess I'm nervous you know we as I said before we play wacka with these with these zoning ordinances and we think we've covered it and then somebody acts Marc us and I I would just like it to be more direct than than that where you know it's here and then you have to refer to here you know whatever I mean that's why I think if there's a way we can simplify it to be what we all think of as apartments in a apartment building and clearly not what was going into that development on Main Street strike Roots sure it's strike Roots yeah I mean I was surprised in there if if other committee members agree we're happy to take this one back and do some further revisions if that yeah I you understand what we no I mean I'm in familiar with the loophole were're trying to close so I think we you know why don't we go back take another step at the language let's make sure it's you know actually do all the things that we wanted to do absolutely that's fine and just a question so sure if if we have a a a commercial space and one apartment on top of it that's is that considered multif family or is that considered commercial we've added that that the upstairs the upstairs use would be considered a multif family configuration with one with less than three units and a commercial space below where um because and this this gets the fact that the B4 Zone permits multif family housing developments as a permitted use and rather the modifying the permit uses in the zone to now add apartment or add other unit configurations we're just adding the mult we're just amending the definition of multif family housing development to cover those types of configurations of less than three units I think we need to think about what we're letting it you know let's just give that some more thought to make sure we're not letting something in that we don't want to be letting in okay yeah because one of one of the compounding issues is that we just have to be careful amending these permitted uses because it is part of the settlement agreement so we just need to make sure that we're not bumping up into other things so we can certainly as part of this this revisit we'll we'll take a look at all those factors happy to okay and then the last definitional change uh last ordinance change um that we have before you this evening um is is a couple of definitions uh adjustments um first regarding Building height um and this is just a kind of a technical modification um to allow for properties or portions thereof located within a flood Hazard area um as defined the vertical distance when you measure the height of a building shall be from the designed flood elevation um which is the point at which you know should flood waters occur it's that floating line above uh then up this allows um this ordinance change will allow for um homeowners to elevate their properties out of a floodway as of right as an in an as of right condition rather than seeking a variance or having to get approvals to elevate the property above the floodway um and then the other uh changes proposed in here just further clarify the floor area ratio definition computation um both for residential and non-residential spaces and then also clarify the half story definition which we've added um when we modified the permitted height of residential structures to two and a half people come up with for as right verus didn't we talk about I'm sorry didn't we talk about making sure that was associated with an application like a grand application in some way you're talking about the home elevation yes yes correct yes so this would only be applicable the height distinguish would only be for applic for properties that are located within a 100e flood plane so that's the only condition that to which uh and it's the design flood elevation is unique for each property depending on their elevation certificate um as far as where those flood waters would occur measuring up the design level and then the height of the building so it it varies by property's proximity to the flood plan if that makes sense so this would allow homes in that 100 area flood plane to be higher norwise that's correct we but are we endorsing there like you see at the like on Long Island well those houses that are on stills you know I don't you know where you can like drive a car underneath and park underneath your house I mean I don't know that that's exactly what that's what we're looking so what I can what I can say is that in riverine flooding circumstances that is certainly not the height level um in this case as I mentioned it's going to be unique per property and there is a designed flood elevation that now DP is stipulating that you know in order for property owners to build or get approvals to build they must Elevate the home above uh for resiliency so that there's not repeated inundation for the homeowners to obtain flood insurance but what's on the bottom floor when they raise their when they raise their house is it stilt or is it something solid usually something solid typically typically in River conditions is it's masonry block you know kind of like elevation because I don't think that's what to allow typically you know with the velocity of the water they don't permit kind of pilings or you know tear of that kind also you have you have two homes that are currently three three um but we anticipate that two will take um um will go forward with the with the elevation process um and I don't believe either of them would even like um one in particular will not need relief on so because it's a ranch currently so um but in in those examples of elevations they usually try to make the bottom look like a foundation maybe even we'll have some windows things like that so is that does that become additional usable square footage in the house not no quite quite quite the opposite is that you're not allowed to use it because they're trying to get everything Farms way that's right so then why would you put Windows there to make it more windows I would think in the FL windows windows and openings are actually but that's okay the the idea of that space is for water to for water to flow through it I'm pretty sure that a 100e storm is gonna hit they're going to use that space for a rec room or something 100% Going you know Charlie and I've talked about before Mr is that you know where South Mountain is used to be a lake and understanding that if you're home is at the bottom of a lake and you have to build up uh what do you anticipate the highest possible vertical structure we would see in South so as I as I as I mentioned um each uh River Course within the state of New Jersey has an elevation flood profile associated with it so that that elevation varies at you know every point along on the course of the river as the elevation slopes the flood water line slopes so you know it's Unique to each site um so I can't give you that kind of guesstimate at this point you know what I can tell you is that um from that design flood elevation up would be the maximum permitted height of a structure um within the township but um you know and I also want to in furtherance to Mr McDonald's comments um these Grant fund programs are very very limited in their ability to fund uh home elevations and that they essentially just refund the elevation of the structure expansions of the footprint are not permitted additional square footage is not permitted as part of the grant program um there is a a small provision for expansions only to allow for relocation of mechanical equipment out of that basement flooding repeated inundation space up to the level above uh the flood level um so that the homeowner doesn't have to continually replace their furnace HVAC equipment all those things um so you know I think the the utility of this section is going to be very very narrow um and really just for this inundation situation inside of so the inside that this is blocking off is that accessible to the homeowner or not really essentially so I you know I work in another community and we do a lot of these we're actually processing 14 of these exact home elevations right now um these baces are not condition spaces they are designed to have flood Vents and openings and windows um to allow for water to flow through um if those structures are fortified and don't allow water penetration then essentially pressure builds up and you can collapse the structure so they are designed to to get flooded um and there are explicit code requirements within the uccc standards that say you cannot um finish those spaces you can't have electrical down on that level you know there are a number of limitations Beyond just zoning regulations and that live in the construction code to prevent finishing or utility of those spaces I mean homeowners do typically have boxes or storage you know stuff but um they can't be furnished as you know habitable space um it's against it would be a code violation hope there's something you want to say of course thank you okay okay final public comment this public comment period is to allow for final comments from the community when invited to speak to offer your comments please come to the lecture and clearly state your name and whether you are a Milbourne resident and property or business owner please do not provide your full address seeing our meetings are recorded and readily available to the public I remind you that in order to help facilitate an early meeting and to permit all to be heard speakers shall limit their comments to one three minute session thank you mayor Rano Perry uro as you may know I'm a commercial property owner representing five properties located outside the downtown business district and the Township's redrawn Main Street New Jersey designated boundaries for years I've been in touch t with my fellow property owners in the upper mil Avenue District who unlike me have been silent about their criticism of explorers founding ordinance activities or lack of thereof on our behalf and due to their fear of retaliation as they've watched this play out with me and our businesses coincidentally tonight my members of the TC Township employees and Consultants I am here to make a public comment on the collective be on their Collective behalf but there but let their public silence not be an admission that they agree with the special theft by ordinance assessment on property owners Together We Stand by the clear efforts of the TC to continue the taxation without representation of property owners and strongly do not support our tax dollars subsidizing one District businesses organizations and grifters not subject to the Sid tax sadly since the enactment of the superseding expanded five appointed District Sid ordinance on August 11th 2020 approved without significant in public input during the height of covid I have been vocal in our opposition which resulted in defamation and retaliation and yes law fair does exist and this is something no constituent and property owner who owns residential commercial or mixed use property should ever have to endure would you agree to protect our rights as a taxpayer we were compelled to file lawsuit this Township under our prior and current management Mayors lieberberg puus miggins and Romano never received a written legal opinion or memorandum from Council as the validity of the expanded five district Sid why I am disappointed by the lack of communication and the failures of former TC members who willingly allowed my family to be and I to be targeted disparaged and humiliated however please know that my future silence is in no way shall be deemed or interpreted as my affirmative consent to a special sit assessment on properties located outside the boundaries of the downtown business district in the Township's redrawn Main Street New Jersey boundaries I choose to no longer be ignored and left with unanswered questions and emails left unaddressed I will not surrender to your partisan narrative and as a grown adults we should all agree to disagree lastly my opin in my opinion property attor attorney litigation and Exhibits should not be taken lightly I look forward to seeing you all at the bare property trial because the township has not only rejected our settlement offer of May 7th of 2024 but rather denied our request for other case management conference Andor a case settlement conference remember these are your decisions and this body has chosen to continue to litigate and not mediate you own this and you owe the $25,000 expenditures on the litigation thank you um good evening Jeffrey phel I live in the poet section some first things I hope you will post the link for the hearing on Thursday I think the public needs to know that as to the fauler ACT there one other very important right that's about direct democracy unless you're a fauler act municipality citizens do not have the right of initiative and referendum by becoming a Fulmer act we get that right um for Charlie um Orange has passed a bond resolution a bond ordinance to repair the dam up at the reservoir um but it's interesting it's under the qualified Bond act and when we're talking about exempt Municipal w u entities we need to really look at all this benefits that we've been subsidizing going forward um as we began to this evening with the fees really understand it you need to look at the retention agreements and through I was able to get the retention agreement of the mpal attorney and the um ver and you need to look at section 2.1 and 2.4 because there's the town tells the consultant the attorney that there'll be one person that will give him written instructions as to what they're going to do now earlier this evening we heard that the mayor resigned at from the Democratic committee chair because of workloads prior to that I was asking I don't know how many times up here do you ever get an opinion whether State Statute prohibited a chair of a local party from serving on the local assistant board I think I know how to read there's a Prohibition to quote Judge Judy stop pissing on my leg and me it's raining this is where we're going now when we started this evening you tried to attack me about the fees Bell versus Milbourne can you put a price on getting the right to speak before you take official action why didn't you mention that your mpal attorney did not file an answer and I got a ministerial default against the town and all the council members the issue in that case is whether we had a fundamental right to be heard before official action no one's answered that question you said well you follow no Tor claim uh constitutional and you found names I filed one that we talked about the fair sh the nine Main Street settlement and you relied on the opinion Abus act four months later we know what judge Garner said I never told you you couldn't tell the people the terms we had to stop Mr Co when you about the facts you better go back to what happened on September 17 2021 two things happened that first judge gner shut down M attorney and next judge Mo like you shut me thank you hi Richard cyber I'm uh Milbourne resident I'm gonna make this quick so today I got to watch Marco Rubio sworn in as the new secretary of state the 72nd Secretary of State and he made three promises and he these are the three questions that he asks before he makes any decision I'm going to say this twice for everybody understand these are the three questions he asked before anything is done does it make us stronger does it make us safer and does it make us more prosperous and those three questions you do you remember what I just said so those three things before you make any decisions ask this question does it make us any stronger the town does it make us safer does it make us more prosperous I like that makes things simple for me thank you thank you Bill kers mbour resident I'd like to thank the uh Township committee members who commented on my comments and for inviting me back to say something about them um um I guess I guess they say that when you have to explain a joke it means it's really not funny so I guess that applies applies this time right um let me make this clear what I was responding to first of all was that I that I I observed a lot of campaigning today more than usual from us in the audience really thankfully not from the committee people and so my response was really in saying that um how ridiculous it would be to support a business or a vendor on political terms instead of on the quality of their food the quality of their service um you know how they work whether it was whether it was a restaurant or anything else so really was the opposite of how it was interpreted and I think that maybe shows there was something that was possibly ill advised or ill timed and I'm grateful for the person who very powerfully pointed out the way they heard it because it allows me to give this explanation in Cas there could have been somebody else there was one person who heard it that way then it's good to have an explanation and there apparently was at least one so I thank them for pointing that out um there may have been others and I hope I made that clear that really was the opposite of the way it was interpreted because certainly myself for instance I'm not going to give up going to one pizza place in Nob bur because of any kind of perceived politics believe me it's the pizza is much more important and and really whether it's pizza or some other food or a roofer or a driveway person or anything else that that goes as well so thank you for your comments and that that's really what I did mean thanks for the opportunity to explain thank you hi I'm Carol K's wife and I understood a sense of humor so but I did want to say that um with the exception of the time of the pandemic I've been attending regular meetings for over over 15 years and like this committee I've seen committees come and go and I've never felt there was a political problem you work together I that's what on the other hand I have always and I have spoken occasionally about how I am in favor of nonpartisan government not because of how I've seen it done but because it doesn't make sense to me for it to be that way on a local level why should it be that way and I've attended Verona in fact I've attended a number of their meetings and they have nonpartisan Works beautifully and frankly their microphones work better but uh I am very very pleased that we will have an opportunity in November to vote on a change in the government I really think part of what we saw between last meeting and in this meeting there's been a a raise in the political thing I think we're in a political time it's just it's a highly sensitive time a good reason I think to change the form of government so we can take that out of it because I really feel like we don't need it thank you thank you J morale resident and uh Mr kersch I took your comments as a joke as well so um back to the uh Charter study commission as I said the two most consequential factors in selecting a form of government are the type of Mayor and whether or not you have elect uh partisan or nonpartisan elections other decisions like the SI size of the council the length of the terms word-based Council repres representation are all relatively less important than those two larger factors um nonpartisan elections are in a couple of the fauler ACT forms of government uh Council manager and mayor counsel all the traditional forms of government like town or burrow or city or Village or us a Township they only permit partisan election and as best I can tell there are only two things that change in nonpartisan elections first the primaries go away there is no local election primary the second is the position of the candidates on the ballot it changes from the front of the ballot where candidates are grouped by party to the rear of the ballot without party designation though A slogan is permitted so if you think about Board of Education elections you flip the ballot over that's where the candidates are listed so while some have asked if this means the political parties will be removed from the process this is not required with that said it would be great to hear from the local political parties on what their intentions would be should nonpartisan elections be enacted will they continue to select C candidates and fund candidates will they continue to accept contributions from donors outside of the constituency perhaps they'll share with all of us as part of this process what they intend to do should nonpartisan elections come to be hopefully that explains a little bit about what the important crack factors in selecting a form of government are and what the implications are and thank you for your time thank you thank hi Jean Pastor neck I just want to address Jay right away I think you were at the meeting where as uh I stated as chair of the Republican party that we are in full support of the non-partisan form of government and the um fact that the the the referendum is taking place in November I haven't heard the same from Miss lieberberg who is my counterpart uh as chair of the democratic committee so maybe best to address that to her thanks um the other thing I want to say is uh I think those of us that were involved in campaigning saw a clear distinction with the businesses being targeted I know U everything that Ben and Frank said about how they were treated with signs with h fundraising effort by one or two restaurants is true and it does happen so there might be a little bit of a trigger by what you said to people who worked hard and were shocked by that behavior okay um the other thing I want to say is you're you're hearing comments about politics tonight well I think this comment that I just read from um a nonpartisan group that's talking about uh overdevelopment this man said affordable housing mandates and overdevelopment should not be partisan issues however voters must not ignore the facts the latest versions of affordable housing mandates were passed on Partyline votes Trenton Democrats refused to reduce the excessive mandates imposed unreasonable deadlines refus to end exemptions for urban municipalities and refus to reinstate Regional contribution agreements several Democrat Gator candidates want to double affordable housing mandates and further undermine local control voters need to find out where each national state and local candidate stands and vote accordingly I don't think that this is political I think it's factual and I think people do need to be informed in anyone trying to stop that I'm very concerned to hear because we have five people up here that have really important decisions to make on our behalf and it's important that they get the support from the people who represent them in in other offices above them and I believe that us bringing that to the light of people in our community is not political at all we're all here to try and solve problems together I feel like we have worked well together but things have happened there's a past and there are facts need to be shared so if people are running for office again or if they're being involved in this I think it's important that we know the facts thank you thank you I'm so glad to renovating this building it's freezing this Windows I'm very excited about that um I I had a couple things for Grant and um and for Alex actually so going back to all the overdevelopment I do have a lot of concerns about the high Center being part of this issue um so Alex I I sent you guys all um a email of the questions that I have from December 17th so my apologies for delaying it I just wanted to make sure it was thorough um Alex I think in the last meeting on December 17th excuse me sorry on the last um meeting on December 17th um you said that no fines had been levied against the high Center um for violating uh the settlement agreement um um and you know I do think there might been fines levied to them for another reason um there I researched a November 8th tap article where the township agreed to reduce uh Their fines by $500,000 to $1,000 in return for the high Center to agree to file um a variance applications since the combined properties um on Jefferson did not meet current zoning laws so I don't know if that's true or not maybe somebody made a mistake um but maybe you can educate me on that um you also said that um the high Center could not have high holidays the settlement agreement for which they received $750,000 but over the past few years a rabbi requested a dispensation for this and it was granted and I did want to understand did Miss liberg who signed the original agreement did she grant that or was it a committee Vote or was it just he called up somebody in the township and asked for that dispensation and it was just given verbally I I really want to understand how that was done um so and I also want to talk because Grant brought up all the issues you know um and you're talking about Builder remedy um and so in order for somebody to build there's a lot of acquired LLCs and there has been offers to two properties I know in fact um around the 165 um old CH Hills and one Jefferson um a lot of those properties could be demolished because as you said you have the right to demolish those properties and then they could be basically in need of improvement and that entire aced area could be used for high density housing if it was approved so that might be something to go to Grant because you brought that up and then so that was just some questions for Alex and then for Grant I had a suggestion um when you're were talking about the homes in the um flood zone um great great idea and I just wanted to throw in is there any way we can have some type of design standards for um flat roof restrictions um for those houses and also in general in residential areas because normally if you allow like a a gabled roof to be at 30 or 32 feet it's very different visual you know implication versus a flat Rift to be 30 32 feet and then you know you're seeing um applications like high Center be building five to six foot high huge amount of you know square footage for equipment and so that's something I'm concerned about because in the flood zones they might want to try to put the equipment on the roof on a flat roof building elevated Etc thank you that's it thank you okay good evening good evening Sarah Sherman um first I'd like to tell Phil kersch that I appreciate his sense of humor I've known him and sat behind him at meetings for many years we got it at home um I too was beginning to wonder about the political comments tonight and I think it'll be a very long election season if we're already talking about who's running for governor for the assembly that said more importantly um I want to refer everyone to one of the flood mitigation advisory committee's first meetings after we were formed uh we met with Cranford residents whose homes had been elevated so we learned a great deal about home elevation how it works what the houses look like we you know we had an opportunity to see that um and as a result uh the three homeowners in South Mountain uh made the decision that they wanted to be considered for home elevation so I believe a recording of this meeting is still uh on the township website for anyone who is interested and uh Deputy Mayor Cohen happy to talk to you about uh home elevation at any time thank you thank you okay I will now Eric asman again longtime resident um it's come up during today's meeting uh that a reminder that our mayor uh previously endorsed uh Mikey Cheryl uh as did Mr Cohen and just curious why you might have endorsed uh uh Congressman Cheryl for governor in light of these affordable housing issues thank you I will now close public comment would anyone like to make any final remarks start I would I would add to Eric goosman also with the withholding of weapons to Israel but I don't want to go down that path right now for Mikey Cheryl which has been somewhat problematic in my world um just a comment to uh to Carol and and Phil and to Sarah Sherman completely agree starts today to eliminate any appearances of impropriety I'm glad you guys back the nonpartisan uh I think it sets a very bad precedent and and it'll be discussed on Thursday so you may even want to come on Thursday having the head of the democratic committee be up for the chair of the special improvement district like it should not be in my opinion I think it's uh somewhat apparent but I appreciate all your support thank you um Deputy Mayor would you like yeah I would just like to thank Mr morale for explaining uh again explaining what uh what's up for grabs in the election but I do want to say that in addition to his you know his is uh finding out who supports it and who doesn't and I would hope that he does find that out from from both party chairs the other questions that he asks are even more important the the ones that were not answered which were what will you do if this passes so will you continue to select candidates will you accept contributions from individuals um who who don't live in town those kinds of things and we have not heard an answer to to those questions so it's there's more than just saying I support it there's if it passes there's a whole bunch of uh a whole bunch of things that that need to be answered as well um and I do support Mikey Cheryl she's been a good friend she's been a good friend to the town in terms of of uh and and having her in the governor's office would be good for the town as she's very familiar with us and and has already helped us receive uh grant money for for flooding um her proposal of using vacant Office Buildings for there is a housing shortage in the in the State whether we like it or not we don't necessarily need to rectify it here in Milburn but there is a housing shortage um and her s her suggestion for using vacant and abandoned Office Buildings rather than building new development I think is to eliminate those isour is a good thing wherever those vacant Office Buildings exist I think that's a that's a good proposal it's a good it's not it's you know I also think though I do agree with Mr AOS in that the am of market rate housing is way overblown and I and I just don't see the demand for that and I think something like that has to be addressed because as we know there are vacancies all over with more to come thank you committee Mandy I agree I think it's gonna be a very long campaign season if this is how we're starting it off um which is why you know I'm really excited about the charter committee referendum um because it's the crucial first step towards hopefully moving to a nonpartisan form of government that way those of us up um don't need to uh sit here and listen to the partition ship back and forth uh or feel compelled to endorse you know candidates um so with that um I would just like to thank everyone for coming out and uh I do hope in the future we can focus more on the local issues um that are affecting our town but you know it's free speech so say say what you want um thank you committee kro yeah just a thank you to J moral as well for all the work he's done on that part system Mr McDonald Mr caner yeah I just have I just have um two quick things so um I know the question was asked and I don't think it's appropriate for campaigning from the day so and I also don't think it's part of public meetings so I know they were asked why they support and from the public you have your first man right you certainly can criticize anyone up here for who they endorse for governor and and issues but this day it should not be a you put him in a spot where he was campaigning for a certain candidate as as the election continues I don't think that we should be campaigning from the day for any go any particular candidate I also don't think it's appropriate I'm not saying you can't criticize anyone on the Das for their statements they made about any candidate so it was appropriate what came from the Das you know I think he responded to a question but I don't think we should continue to have a gorial debate from this day so I don't think it's appropriate for our meetings um I would just like to address one thing um it was stated that and again I'm taking no position on anyone's feelings on it I want to try to just be really clear what the law says of course a chairperson can sit in elected position on a days um whether the Republican or Democrat um Republican chair people and Democratic chair people serve in every capacity and elected officials and often it's common when you have a strong elected official they are the chair of their party I mean I think I think our our Senator uh is the chair of his municipality I think there's a con Congressman in mom County I think a lot of Mayors are their chairperson I'm not saying it's appropriate for Milburn or not appropriate for Milburn I just want to say that it's not a conflict of interest and and at no point in time was she in a conflicted position we do have partisan elections you know you have a republican a Democrat a Democrat a Democrat a republican the despite the fact that their chair or not we all know that they have a party so there was no legal Conflict for the mayor to also be the chairperson or for many of our County Commissioners to be the chairs or our Senator I don't think our assembly people are but I think that you know you just I just it's not a conflict it just isn't so it's not P it's actually she doesn't have uh I don't forget the comment was something about her legs wet but she didn't have a confli thank you may I have a motion to adour second they