Uh for the folks on the Zoom at home, we're just waiting a couple minutes for the rest of the commissioners to show up. Ready? >> Yeah. >> Good evening everyone. Welcome to the March 31st, 2026 meeting of Milurn
Township Charter Study Commission, which is called to order. In accordance with the open public meeting act, we advised that this that notice of this meeting was posted to the township website. Mission ability please lead us
there of America and to the republic for it stands one nation. >> Thank you. Um I will now call a roll call vote to note those present time.
>> Mr. Miller >> present. Miss Parker lens >> present. >> Mr. D >> here. >> Mr. Dar >> here. >> I know we also have council Mike Collins of see man in attendance via Zoom. >> Yes. Hi, good evening everyone. Hope you're all doing well.
>> Thank you. Uh the record show that we have a forum for this meeting. May I have a mo may I have a motion to approve the agenda? So move. >> I second that. >> Second. All in favor? >> I. Are there any uh commissioners with report since our last meeting?
>> No. >> No. We're all good. Thank you. This is like one of the last times I'm going to have to say this. Public comment. People
during the public comment period, please follow these instructions. Ensure your Zoom display name shows your first and last name. Click the raised hand button. You will be called upon in order and promoted to panelist. Please turn on your video when called to speak. Clearly
state your full name and whether you are a Milbourne resident or business owner to facilitate an orderly meeting and permit all to be heard. Please limit your comments to three minutes. A reminder that uh public comment period is an opportunity for residents to share their views with the commission. The
commissioners will not respond to questions or engage in dialogue during the speaking time, but will carefully consider all comments at the end of the public comment period. Questions and discussion may be addressed at the chair's discretion.
>> Um Jeff Bell, I was at the SID meeting. I did not make your great long meeting last week and I want to compliment you on that. I watched it. I think you should be praised for how open this whole process has been.
I think the frank and honest discussions about how many of you over the course of two or three months came your positions evolved from what it was when you came here and I think that has to be recognized. Um after the meeting various posts have
come up. I think it's very important when we when you create your report you dispel the rumor and falsehoods that are coming out on social media that you have appendices showing how many meetings you had
that the meetings were recorded. I think there was by attending the various meetings I know one civic association was not that helpful for you to get the message out. I think that should be part of your report also. I think is part of your report. I mean, Cory was always talking about when he
ran in the primary against Tara. I ran twice in primaries and that should also be mentioned that my opponents did not debate me. And because I refused to sign a loyalty oath to one party, I did not get nomination. But I want to compliment
you on what you've done, especially the honest discussions that you had. I think we had to dispel some of the false that are coming out. >> Thank you. Uh, anyone else down? Anyone from >> anyone on Zoom motion to speak? You may
raise your hand. >> No one wishes to be heard. >> Okay. I now close the public comments period. Are there any comments in from the commissioners uh regarding any comments made by the public? >> Let's see.
Oh, do you >> um I don't know. I mean to to dispel I I guess I haven't paid attention to that particular part. So maybe I'll try not to look for people, you know, who are I I I so I didn't I didn't see what negativity was out there yet. I figured
we'd wait on, you know, after today to decide what we are listening to from the public. I'd love to have public meetings and answer questions, but you know, people are attacking. I I don't know that I I definitely got an attack sort of text message this evening um that we
weren't transparent and that we didn't hold enough meetings and that we didn't hold meetings at varying times that we didn't hold them on Saturdays or Sundays which of course the big biggest meeting that we had was on a Sunday and we've invited everybody and tried to send information. So I was kind of shell shocked on my way over here like wow
person chose to uh send me a message like we just did a bad job of getting it out there and that's why she chose not to show up because she knew that was a foregone conclusion. So that was kind of interesting to me. So I I that I didn't I guess it came to my house to myself instead of you know looking for social
media but that was surprising to me. >> Um >> I mean I know when we scheduled the meetings there was an intention to have meetings on every single day of the week as possible. I don't think we've met on Friday or Saturday for good reason. But Monday through Thursday and also a Sunday meeting. We tried to do it after
whether it's after work hours or after kids go to bed hours and I know we've discussed it because we wanted to make sure that people and certainly people like us who could actually make the meetings you know like we're I think all five of us with the exception of one do have you know I mean I I have hours during the day I can make myself available but if three people are not
available from 9 to5 necessarily we we make ourselves available here and there but I think again from from my experience working with onto Fest for as many years as I've worked it's hard to get people to come out for doing things for free and then just showing up as volunteers listening to things until it
becomes somewhat more heated. So, I think we did our best. I think we're very transparent about the process of how many days we're going to, you know, switch it around and we chose the Sunday that was a pivotal Sunday where we actually have the majority of information out there for people to make some judgment calls. And we chose to do
that with food and refreshments. >> So, I was like, "Wow, that's so interesting that, you know, I mean, I baked fork half a day and worked on it Saturday the day before. So I I don't know how much more we could have offered except for every Sunday session and Thursdays, but that's just not what
other charter studies have done. I think we conducted ourselves in a professional manner. So it's just like a little it was just, you know, >> anyone who who complains or alleges that the process wasn't open to all and accessible should be very careful because we have a clear record, a
recorded record. Um, and so if they want to maintain that narrative, they'll just get proven wrong on record on videotape. And so it's fine. >> It was just a surprise. >> And I I do recall Mr. Feld had a meeting early on where he couldn't attend, but he he sent he emailed his public statement to us and I believe I read it
into the record and it's in the minutes. So you did, >> you know, I I don't think it's for lack of trying that we've tried to engage the public to the extent possible. Um I was I was going to address it at the next public um session, you know, comments and everything, but I also have
um we see some interesting emails. >> Yeah. And um you know what I think the folks here know we did a yman's job just just
to let everyone know before this started before we were sworn in we had a meeting at Joanna's house and we all said we're going into this with an open mind and we all come from different backgrounds and
different political affiliation and we had major league discussions. I had discussions with Jeff Dr. Khan. >> Well, we when we met with >> Joanna, you and I always >> but I think the bottom line is we had that meeting with people who who lost to
us in order to involve them where there was also a lot of focus served >> and and I felt like, you know, we had the open door policy. We had a very transparent, you know, beginning of that process, like, hey, we're not sworn in yet, but before we do, we want to make
sure that everyone sees us here, gets to know us. We tried to answer as many questions because there were some people who actually had no idea who we were. Um, you know, and and that's fine because it's it's not as small of a town as we think it is. So, you know, we wanted to make the people who lost to us feel comfortable that any comments they
wanted to make or suggestions or things that, you know, and we followed up and we met had the focus groups in between as well, you know, including visiting people's personal homes to to get their different opinions. So, I felt like it was very transparent. I felt like we were we're trying to reach out to get as
much information and this is the busiest time of the year where people are actually around. So, I think, you know, we'll definitely debate I think tonight some dates, but um >> I think that was the hallmark of our studies is to make sure we got as many
opinions as possible. I say this in my work life and in my private life is I reserve the right to be smarter tomorrow than I am today. And I specifically wanted to hear as many opinions as possible because my opinion on certain things did change and I wanted to hear
alternate opinions and we did. I have no regrets about the amount of outreach and publicity and varying days and number of meetings that we had. And so if people want to choose to create this narrative
now, that's fine. We have a record. >> Well, look, I I don't think we need to get looking for certificates from anyone. I >> I know in my heart that we went into it with an open mind. We debated a lot of points. We try to address issues that
were identified as issues that need to be addressed in our local government and the ultimate judge are going to be the people of the town and they vote on our recommendations. >> Right? >> We use the people to make their own judgment and we can only make a recommendation.
>> Right? We recommend everyone else votes yay or nay for it. And that's what this is all about. It's about somebody else's vote. We each get one vote per person. You have no apologies. >> Okay. Thank you, commissioners. Um, new
business discussion on the next steps and timing. >> Um, >> so I guess before we launch into this, um, Mike, could you give us an update as to where the, um, report drafting is at?
>> Yeah, certainly. So, um, Suzanne's been taking the lead on that. Um she and I sat down today to go over where things are at. So we've made very good progress. Um we have basically most of phase one and phase two down to paper.
Um I think we now need to work on uh addressing some of the phase three considerations. I know the commission gave us uh guidance over this past weekend on basically all the questions that we need to now fill in. So that's uh uh outstanding for us to to get handled. And then obviously we're going
to take notes on where the commission lands tonight and then that will basically uh I think give us all the information we need to get a draft to the commission for its uh further review and consideration. >> Did we provide notes to them about our
interview? >> I have not rather >> Mike we have some additional notes for phase two that we're going to get to. Um just a few interviews we did with um >> Redbank and Madison. Sure. >> That sounds great. Yeah. Whatever um
whatever disclosable information that you have, uh please get it to us. We'll do our best to uh make sure it's a part of the report and as comprehensive as possible. >> Thank you, Mike. >> So, I think given the it sounds like the
report is coming along nicely. Um I think there's sort of two options at least in my mind that are on the table in terms of timing for how we can proceed here. Um, so part of what we need to determine is a when the
referendum for the question to adopt the recommendations goes to the voters and b when if that recommendation passes there would be a new form of government and when those elections for the council members then the new form of government would take place.
>> So we have to go over if this then that. >> Yes. >> Yes. Um, and I think it's probably important for public to understand how each one of us is feeling about the if this then that scenario. Um, because there's a change is always
hard. I think that's that's part of why there is going to be scuttlebutt and people, you know, making comments that might be perceived as negative. Maybe they don't mean it as negative, but you know, I think just the fact that there is a potential for change is very difficult for a lot of
people to handle and especially people who've lived in this town for a long time. And I know we've had representatives of, you know, the town that have lived here forever and forever and, you know, also forever um from both sides of the aisle. Um so I just would
love to explore with all of you guys since we don't have a chance to do this, you know, as a group. um if this then that the positives and negatives that each one of you are feeling because I feel like you know we're we we each have slightly different opinions I'm sure um
I too started with this one on a different page when I first started thinking about it in the beginning where I was like well what happens if we finish on this date what happens on this date I know certainly in my own life I have certain dates in my life that are extra extra crazy or extra busy and I think others do too you know I know that
there's dates throughout the summer that make people crazy because they're, you know, away and not available, which makes me crazy for October Fest because I'm always looking for volunteers. And for you with Fourth of July coming up, you know, there there's just we know how people function from volunteer
perspective. Um, I think getting to care about things like this will also be something like us soliciting, you know, them to care about the things that we just volunteered to research. So, it's another bit of work for all of us. So just trying to figure out what that means for each one of us to go out and
make sure people are paying attention once we make the decision, this last decision, right? >> So I think that's going to affect the dates. >> Can I ask council a question? U Mike, is there a procedence of putting a draft
report out in public? >> Um yeah, I that question's come up in both of the prior charter study commissions that I've represented. Um, while you guys ultimately set the rules, I would advise that uh I think it makes
the most sense for the commission to work with my office on an attorney client privilege basis when we have a draft and work product uh circulating and that ultimately once the commission is ready to take that out of draft to then uh vote on it. I I think that to
put a draft report out um would really kind of create a a chaotic process where um you know there's c draft circulating publicly. Um I think this commission's been very transparent about all the components that um go into the
decision-m and what I can tell you is that in each of the two commissions I've represented uh there was always some public concern about well you know what's going to be in the report you know questioning asking that exact question you just asked and each instance everyone was very satisfied at
the end because everything that's in the report is simply reflective of all the meetings you guys have had. So, um, you know, I I always say that like, you know, the Supreme Court doesn't put a draft opinion on the street and then a week later issue its opinion. Like the opinion comes out and that's the
decision and that's that's how >> that's how I look at it. >> Well, fair point. Well, let me ask another question. Um, is it have you seen a proceedings where the commission
voted on a report, approved it, but that report didn't include the draft ballot question yet? Well, uh, I think the ballot question is simply going to be a reflection of the
direction the commission shared at its past meeting and and so that just needs to be reduced to the Faulner Act framework. So, you know, I don't really see what the the way the question would be worded as
anything that's going to catch anyone by surprise because it's just us following the statute. It's basically dictated to us. >> Well, the the reason I asked that question is um I think the the Faulner Act permits us to amend the report
in case any of us have a or all of us rather or majority of us um want to do that until a ballot question is submitted because after the ballot question is submitted the charter commission is kind of disbanded, right?
Correct. And um in the reports I've prepared >> the point is if we if we vote on a report sorry to cut you off there. If we vote on a report that includes the ballot question after that meeting the commission doesn't exist anymore. So in effect there cannot be any
amendments to the report in case any of us want to rethink our positions. So what when I was reading about this it felt like what disbands the commission or may not disband the right word is
dissolves I guess um is um is submitting the ballot question with or without an interpreted interpretive statement. So I'm wondering if there is a way to separate the two to just give some time
for people to digest the report itself. Well, I mean, I don't I I will say there's there's I'm not aware of any legal restriction on a draft report being put into the ether. U
we just won't have the question. I >> I think you're dissolved. Uh to be honest, I think you're then getting a little >> I think I think you're getting a little gray with the statutes because the statute really provides that you know
the referendum may take only um >> and I I apologize I'm picking up um some of the conversation um but um under section 12 of the statute there's basically four different options uh that the commission could follow. One is to
keep the current form. Another is to petition the legislature, which we all know is not something that's very practical. Um or that it could go recommend a Faulner form. So, uh it's implicit, if not explicit, that um to
recommend a Faulner form, you need to recommend a referendum. So, I think that you'd be getting into a situation where you may it could be argued that you're not really following the statute because if the commission's intention has has expressed already is to recommend a
Faulner form, the proper procedure for that is for you to improve approve the question and you know procedurally as I've handled in both Bradley Beach and Redbank. uh the reports I've drafted um have the report itself and then the
resolution um explaining the terms of the question and the interpretive statement which have been attached to the report and then immediately submitted to the municipal clerk which is the process that's prescribed. So if you don't follow that exact process as the statute intends, I think you're
opening yourself up to to different questions being raised. Well, the only reason I bring it up is the statute does provide for a potential amendment to the report uh within a year not not I mean within a
not after a year at least. So we we wouldn't have if we not if we dissolve there's no question of an amendment. So I'm just wondering how the statute is handling that. again that's that's there's no for other forum for me to ask you this question so I thought I'll
bring it up now but >> I I >> yeah I I'm I I I recall a provision similar to what you're referencing being in there so I I don't discount what you're saying um but I at the end of the
day the report is the report is a document that's obviously intended to be persuasive but it's not dispositive because ultimately All the report does is support the question that you guys are putting on the ballot. So whether there's some sort
of mechanism to amend the report at a later date perhaps if uh you know someone's name is improperly spelled or something you know that needs to be cleaned up uh I I I don't think there's going to be too much legal concern on my part about whether
that could be done or not as much as making sure that the the ballot question which is really the whole purpose of this commission is able to be effectuated legally. Thank you. >> Um Dr. Khan, why don't you lead us in terms
of uh timing? >> Sure. Um so my mind there is sort of two paths forward. Um and feel free to stop me at any point in time if anything I'm saying is unclear. Um so there's the sort of path that Redbank took with their charter study. Um, I believe they
placed the recommendation question on the November ballot following their charter study. Um, and then they had May elections in the following year to select the council people. Um, and then as part of their charter study
recommendation, they said we recommend that the newly elected governing body move the elections from May to November, which they did. Um, so that's sort of one path forward. The other path forward, um, and council can correct me if my read of the statute is not
correct, um, is within 60 to 120 days of the filing of the report, we can schedule a special referendum where that referendum question is the only thing that's on the ballot. And I believe as long as that referendum is more than 75
days prior to the November general, then the November general election would provided it passes at the special referendum. The November general election would be the selection of the new council people under the new form of government. So that's sort of the two
paths forward in my mind at least. >> Any estimate of the potential cost of a special election? So the that's a good question. Um I had to sort of preface that because with either of those
options, you're sort of faced with the cost of a special election, right? So either you're appropriating money for a May election or you're appropriating money for a special referendum. >> Now the risk in my mind >> more expensive than the other. >> Uh I believe the May one would be a
little more expensive. Um >> so so if if this then that scenario would be if I guess let's talk about two scenarios if >> we have a scenario where November is the date right and
the date for the referendum and for regular elections you know that that people are are doing >> if it does not pass right that's it does pass there is now going to be a special election because I think if people are tuning in now they not know that, right? So, if there's a
special election now, it will have to be next May of 2027. So, that special election is the one that we're discussing costing X >> versus the special election >> special election for referendum. So, in either case, there is a special there's
a referendum and a special election. It's either referendum special election or vote for candidates special election if it passes. But if there's a referendum and it doesn't pass, then that also it's just dissolves.
>> Well, well, there could be a I'm thinking aloud. I don't know if the answer is yes or no. There could be a third path where you do the referendum in November and the next election is in November or
it has to be May. meaning >> the lame duck period >> is can that can we just ignore the May and just do it the next November >> I I believe it is possible to do it in the following November um
>> based on a I think Asbury Park did it that way um that was around 2012 2013 >> I don't like the idea of that because then people are there for a year and they're not they not going to be there so I'm not sure I like >> so they've run for a year and they they're again is what you're saying,
>> right? So >> essentially you've dissolved the government while at the same time elected people to serve one more year in that dissolved government. >> One well we were >> well I just want to make sure we know the paths. I mean I don't like that idea
but I just want to make sure we know the >> right but you were saying one one idea. >> So if we're talking cost you just sort of the cost thing. So, let me >> We were given $40,000. >> 60 >> 60,000 to
>> We budgeted 50 for council and 10. >> All right. 60,000. Do I hear 70? Okay. So, we were we were budgeted through township committee and um
$60,000. We spent $6,000 total so far >> so far. But we have >> So the do the dough shouldn't >> um cloud someone's mind, you know. I
think we have to focus on the momentum that we have right now, the information that we have given and I've gone over in my head a thousand times and I am in
favor of the um of the June 16th um uh refer uh ballot for the folks in town to uh vote on >> what
>> that's that's that's where my head is at. Cory, >> just so what I was saying just from a cost perspective because I just think it's worth having the discussion on the record is that in theory in theory if we had the referendum vote as part of the
November election then if somebody were to put the cart before the horse and consider a short-term thing of like, oh well, I don't want to spend any extra money and so I'm going to vote down the referendum and then it gets voted down and so there's no additional cost in theory because then you won't have a
mail. >> Well, >> well, so we have we have the referendum in November and people think that having additional cost, one-time cost is so abhorent that they should. >> Oh, but do we know the number? Do we I don't know.
>> I don't know the exact number. I think >> 25 grand. Oh, okay. But it I'd have to check with the clerk to confirm because my recollection is a recall >> was 50 if I remember I so I it's we'd have to check with that.
>> So 25 to 50 is the range. >> Yeah. >> So it's not significant. >> What does that cover? That covers what? Renting equipment. >> Uh hiring election staff, voting machines, >> stuff like that. >> Mail and ballots, etc. >> So I I just put it out there. I don't
necessarily think that logic flows at all. meaning like, you know, I think it'd be completely shortsighted for somebody to vote this down because they don't want a one time special election when you're talking about a fundamental change to the government and the
long-term benefits to that. But I'm just saying, >> well, if it's 50,000 or less, I don't think cost consideration, >> right? >> I mean, it's not just think about what is the appropriate thing to do. >> Yeah. So, so that's just one one consideration. The the other one is look
we did a lot of work on this and you know we think it's the right path forward so you know which is going to get the most viewership and people to actually show up at both jun >> well I mean >> well that's our and then I'll then I'll
I want your opinion that's our job to get to get the folks out to get the information out to promote this you know I mean that's our job Yeah. Uh >> and by itself and the folks who
who like the uh referendum, you know, to to get the word out also. >> Can I ask council a question on the report again? So um so Mike, um presuming the report has the question, we vote on the report. I I I think that
means the commission's dissolved after we vote on the report, including the referendum question. uh are we allowed to meet and promote the recommendation? Can we kind of so to speak campaign for it or are there any restrictions
>> or or have public sessions or continue to meet like this or you know like talk to people answer question >> by law by convention? Are there any restrictions on what we can say or do as >> former charter commission members? >> Yeah. So, um, like you guys have been
saying, uh, the statute does state that once you make a recommendation, the commission is dissolved. So, you're no longer, in my mind, charter study commission members because the charter study commission no longer exists at that point. So, based upon that, if you
all chose to gather all five of you or four of you or three of you, in my mind, it doesn't implicate the Open Public Meetings Act because there's no public body to quarum. So, I don't see any restriction in any of you exercising your First Amendment rights to advocate
for or against the uh charter recommendation. The only real applicable law is that you or anyone else in the public would definitely need to abide by any uh campaign finance restrictions imposed by uh the campaign finance law
in New Jersey, which is enforced by ELIC. Well, that that was that's that's my next question, Mike. If we decide to use the monies that were allotted to to
us to put the referendum on a flyer, okay, and disseminate it to the township uh people, can we say vote yay, vote, vote yes? >> Definitely not.
>> Or he knows the answer to that. So we can we cannot I know that >> don't scare me too much German. >> I just wanted to get that out there. >> He wants the public to know what the questions and answers are, right? I'm assuming that. >> Yes. >> But you know, we all put our own dough
up, you know, before we ran. And so if we put up our own dough to make 10,000 flyers and and say vote yes, can we do that? I would say that you can you can do whatever you want. You'll be
in your role as private citizens as long as you comply with New Jersey campaign finance law. >> Right. That's what >> I think more importantly it'd be nice to actually appear in public together where we can actually say come ask us questions. >> That's really what I mean.
>> Right. I know that's what you mean. And and I and I I saying yes or no obviously if we recommended it >> we all >> we obviously agree. So it, you know, that's where we got to. We may not have agreed all at once, but we got to a place of agreeing. So if we are appearing in public sessions that are
not public because we're no longer commissions, we're appearing in public or holding office hours or just saying, "Hey, reach out to us and we'll have a focus group for you or something." Um, make more fkacia and just answer questions. But I feel like people can then ask us how the process was. they
can read the report or they can get the cliffnotes versions or they can watch the videos and kind of see how we got to the place we got to. Um, I certainly know from a lot of people that supported me personally when I'm like, "Come to the meetings. Come, let's go. Let's go. Let's go." Like, "Dude, we support you
because we voted for you." So, a lot of people were like, "I don't want to go to those meetings." I know. I I feel like I trust you. So, the folks that I had, they want to vote, but they didn't want to necessarily come attend. So, I was like, "Why aren't you coming? Why aren't you coming?" So, I feel like at this point, for the people who don't know us and didn't necessarily vote for us, it
would be nice for us to be available and accessible. I'd rather not be, you know, having pitchforks out there saying that we did something wrong, but I'd like people to ask questions of like how we got to our to the place that we got to. >> It's interesting that they um So, it is also reminding me of of the text that
you seemingly got. Apparently, you got emails. So, from that perspective, oh my god, so on the one hand, having a June election, it's out there. It's out in the open. >> Well, it's not summer, >> right? No, but I'm saying I'm saying it's by itself. It's by itself on a
ballot. There's no hiding it. We're not, you know, on the other hand, do we face somebody saying, "Oh, well, you know, you didn't have it in November, which is when most people come." But if you have it in November, then it's >> amongst Yeah. Right. It's amongst other issues like like Senate race and local
race and stuff like that. So, yeah, I think that's something we have to consider. It's like all right if there is going to or not going to be if there is noise of hey you should have had more meetings or had it on different dates or something like that it's you know under the surface the allegation is hey yeah
you know you weren't transparent I suppose having it in June is like >> here you go it's the only thing here you can't say we're hiding anything >> well I mean that see that's the thing like I was when I first thought about this in theory when I read my my you know materials about the process and
about the charter study commissions that happened before us. I was like, "Oh, we're going to take this amount of time and it's going to take a nice long time. It'll be very leisurely and then we'll appear next November on the ballot." And that's kind of what I thought would happen because I thought it would make it easier for everybody. It would take
longer. But when we got started with the meetings and we got started with the interviews and the momentum was there, I was like, "Wow, now I've learned a lot from this one. Now I want to talk to this one. I have to ask questions for this one." Like I wanted to make sure that it was top of mind for the people. Certainly when you and I started Chris, >> I was like, "Wow, the momentum was so
there for for us and we work on momentum when we work on these volunteer projects too." We know how like when you have that momentum and people are really excited and involved. They care to ask the questions. They'll support you. They'll tell you they don't support you. They'll say they they they give you opinions. So, I feel like we were
getting a healthy, you know, amount of opinions that were pro or against all these positions that we I think most of us vacasillated quite a bit on most of them. I too vacillated because I really thought November, it's the perfect time for this study to get voted on to get the referendum on there because the most
people are there. What I didn't think about um until maybe a month ago was if you now have the referendum in November, the election's not happening. So now you have two people getting voted in who are spending their hard-earned money right now to get voted in. and the disruption
of two people changing and they get you know in January what happens like between November January starts to be like whoa what happens >> then they have to spend more money if they want to run again. So now now the other thing I was thinking is like when we were interviewing our our business administrator and he's like well the
most disruptive and actually municipal workers too like the most disruptive time period where we don't necessarily get as much done the clerk said the same thing and other towns said the same thing is sort of between November and January and then January you've got a new mayor coming in so January February and I know from my time of trying to get
um Rock Fest on the agendas they're like don't come in this time period no one's here then don't come then. So now I can't I can't rely on you know getting things done in in July but I also can't do things you know this time or this time and don't do it in January or February. So now what happens to regular
business that has to get done now that's disrupted because not only if this is if they have yes for the referendum. Not only do you have two people who are like well I just got voted in. I'm getting sworn in. I've got to run again if this is a yes. And that's when I was like
wait a minute now that's a cluster. And I'm like, what happens with that? >> Cluster foca. It's a cluster foca. And I'm all concerned because I don't know what to do about it. So my dough is rising. >> And I'm like, I just don't want to
create more havoc for our locals and I don't want to create more havoc for the folks who are running >> because I know how hard it is to run. It took us quite a bit of, you know, effort, a little bit of money from each one of us to collectively share. But if these people are, you know, looking for
real campaign money, what happens if they're only there for a short time and now they have to rerun again? Like that's not doesn't seem fair to them either. I was like, if good candidates are coming aboard to run, it would be great to give them a chance to really run for a longer term.
>> So that's what kind of concerned me and like made me a little bit panicked about a month ago where I was like, wow, okay, so now what's the other option? You don't want to do it in the summertime because yes, the summer is absolutely slow and trying to get anybody to come out to do anything when they're
vacationing, dropping kids off to camp, going on their own vacations, you know, going to pick up kids from college, you know, from a summer program, getting them to the next program. Like, there's so much. Or just regular family travel. You're an empty neester. You don't have kids at all and you're traveling. You're going to your beach house. I get so many
of people who are my age or older and I'm like, "Come work with me on October Fest because you don't have kids around anymore." They're like, "Dude, I'm fishing or I beat Chester or I'm somewhere else." So, I understand the resistance more than anybody. For 10 years, I've been trying to rally people
July, August, and September to do anything. And it's like pulling teeth, begging, bartering, you know, and and I'm sure you feel the same way for >> July 4th. Yeah. >> July 4th, right? So, you have a July >> especially this year because it's on a Saturday, so people are going to be going, but that's just another
>> 250th. But that's but the thing is those of us who are in the volunteer world which certainly the three of us as organizers understand the challenges and I know I get into my panicstricken moments and I'm like I've got interns I've got to recruit for the for October Fest. So how many people can we actually
get on board to hear what we're saying or care about it by the time we get to November? My concern is they're going to be like, "So, what' you decide about the charter schools, >> right?" >> And like, and like all of our hard work, like what would piss me off so much is if what we just accomplished and doing
this hard work um and and and having this debate and and having the forums is all for not when some people are just like the apathy comes back in. And not only that, they forget about that question or what it actually means. People are involved in in voting for
their local people. Now we potentially are wasting their time if this form of government changes and they have to rerun. And now the other thing I worry about, it's going to be a little contentious with elections in November, not locally, >> right? So it we we are no longer going
to be the local focus. If we care about like in Verona, what I loved from from you know that mayor is his transparency, you know, or seeing transparency about, you know, how they all deal with things and the town comes out and talks to them and like they
really care. By the time we get to November, are they going to care about this or about the local elections? They're going to care about the things that are going to change bigger picture items. We are in a global firestorm and people are fighting with each other for so many reasons, you know, about global
wars, about who's responsible, about wararm mongering, about all these things. And I feel passionately as well about that. I almost want my focus then to be like really on the things that are more global come November. And I think other people might as well. And we might
get lost in the shuffle. little, you know, and even even though we got a good amount of votes for our commission, I just worry that come November, we're going to be like really not important to people and and whether they won't understand what we did, there won't be a chance to explain it to them. I think we
have people's ear, I think whether you're against the decision that we made or or for the decision we made or you have no idea what decision we made. It would be a great time right now to embark just like we embarked really heavily on getting our interview previous one for the new year because we knew people were going on vacation. So
for you and I it was like a strategic time like oh my gosh >> we're going to lose people come December because a lot of people are extending their vacations. We're going to lose them the first two weeks of January. Now we're going to interfere with their time of dealing with new elected people. So let's try to get municipal workers done by this date. Yes.
>> It was really because it was strategic so that we can get people's attention. We wanted their focus to be on us. I now feel again we're in this place of we have to make sure we get people's attention. We're not going to get them later. >> So all this >> Dr. Khan
you want to go >> all this talk about is making me hungry. >> So you're saying special elections is it I mean look I'm I'm just trying to I just want to see where they are. So, it's interesting because I I my original
thoughts are we're to have a November election because November. >> Yeah. Because because it's more people are going to show up for that. The question is, hey, does showing up mean that they'll still be informed because like you said, there's other stuff. There's a ballot Senate race, all that kind of stuff.
>> Um because I agree, I don't want to do all this work and then have somebody >> not pay attention to it. So, you know, you get more people showing up in November. So that's a positive in my mind and that's sort of where I my head was originally at
kind transparently. I just said this is like the fact that you guys are getting garbage texts and and critiques now almost sort of swings me like okay then let's shine a light on this thing. Let's do it in in June. Let's shine the light
on it. That way we can't like you know we'll make it the focus and like >> well we'll be the only focus. I mean, there's there's something to be said about the big fish in the tiny little pond, and we got a cute little pond right there. >> Yeah. The question is, I'm gonna get people to show up and actually vote. >> Well, I'll to stay where I am. I think
this is a very important question for the future of the township. It deserves its own little election. Um, I don't want the focus on this question to be diluted by other considerations. >> But you want you wanted November, too. >> I wanted November too, but I thought
about it. Um and uh and I agree with you Joanna that it's not fair to the people intend to run in November to then be running again potentially in May. So we could find out yes or no like it come
like if it actually is June >> right >> um >> and then we have a clean campaign one way or the other >> then people are running and they're like okay I have I have no one else to compete with it's just the you guys >> or we are considering like >> so again I I am for June just because I
think it's a very important question for our future needs it own >> it needs it public comment shortly >> only just because it sensitive camera. >> So I'm for I'm for the special election. >> Dr. Khan.
>> Yeah. I think um in my mind the the worst case outcome is if people start detracting from the recommendation for you know minor nitpicks, right? So a minor nitpick in my in my mind is you know say for sake of argument we did a
November referendum recommending a May election. Someone might very recently say well I don't want to spend money on a May election. I'm going to vote it down. Well, that's not really the spirit of the recommendation, right? So, the spirit of the recommendation is the form of government. But if someone says, well, no, it's going to cost money and
not really engage, then there, you know, there's the secondary consideration that is sort of not sort of in the spirit of what we're trying to recommend out there. Um, there's other issues as well with November. I I do think the the clarity, you know, benefit of having its own election is a
good benefit in June. um when it starts getting intermingled with November now people don't know am I voting a TC member in for six months three years um I remember seeing feedback in when we got elected um because by state statute
when you do a charter study commission question you have to ask the question yes or no but also at the same time vote for people so I remember there was a bit of a hurdle there in terms of educating the public that yes you need to vote yes and you also need to vote for this slate of five
And then people would say, well, what if what if there's no more nos than yeses, then well, you know, no one gets elected, right? So, I do think there is something to be said about the benefits of having a clean separation for each step. I think you can very easily communicate to the public. Here's your
June referendum. That's one decision, yes or no on the new government. Great. If it's yes, then November, we're, you know, fully transitioned over to the new government. And there's no overlap or >> we're not. people are just voting for who voting for who's running in whatever >> and there's less dilution on on that
ballot as well in that case >> right >> so I I do tend to agree that June is in my mind has many benefits over you know putting it out >> and I guess to flip the coin for a second and play devil's advocate as I'm
you know hearing myself creek up there um if there is a no in June June's the June's our date then it's a no. If it's a yes, the two candidates that are currently running, right, they're up for election and the two
other candidates. So, there there's there's the the four candidates theoretically going to be running. Now, we're going to have those four. Um the others that were not prepared to run will have to run. Um so, I
I know that they're already elected. I feel like they have and they were recently elected >> ish >> one one person was >> there the last date by which people have to get on the ballot for >> I think it's council can correct me if I'm wrong I think it's 75 days so for a
nonpartisan election similar to the BOE it's 75 days before the general you have to submit >> and partisan >> um partisan would be different I I don't actually know because there's primary primary Huh? >> Sorry. >> There's a primary
>> primary >> or partisan. There's a theoretical one, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Well, my point is even if we do a special election, there will be enough time for one year or the other for people to get on the ballot for November, right? That's not going to be an issue.
>> Yeah. >> And in theory, everyone who is on TC will want to continue their time because they were just elected to choose not to. We don't know that. They can choose not to, but in theory, like if they're there and everyone's happy to be there, why wouldn't they? And they
all won, right? >> So, in theory, >> the timing works is my point. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. Any other commissioners? >> It presents more work for the PE for the people that were not planning on buying. >> Yes. It it creates more more
>> spots, >> right? So, so like I mean like you just said like so, so Jamie was just elected and Michael was just were just elected. So they were not anticipating having to run again. So they would in theory have to say, "Oh, okay. Right. >> Right. Now I got to run again."
>> Correct. So now those those two are the most impacted because they were just there. The two that are running would be most impact or actually the four that would be running against each other would be most impacted for November. So we're impacting four. If we had a
referendum, you know, it got passed. >> Correct. If >> it's just if this then that. It's the if if that scenario. So, if nothing then it's over, right? If the public just says we're we're good. Um we don't want to explore anything else.
>> So, it's just figuring out the impact who we're impacting. >> I think it's better in all respects whether the vote is yes or no. Well, then people know what where they stand >> without wondering what happens in November and then creating a giant because it's the same time period
because if it's a yes, it's a yes for for for these next months. There's clarity that they're going to have >> clarity. And if there's a yes in November, then there's another election for all the same people that are impacted, >> except now you've got two more people that just got elected
>> who are could be new or could not be new that have to rerun. >> So, it just seems like it's a headache either way, but it seems like the the quickest one that gets it done is like rip the band-aid off. I feel like there's a band-aid song coming behind us here.
There's also some administrative overhead if if just for the sake of argument um due November referendum and then May election >> you have sort of that six-month lame duck period where in those six months the budget gets determined. Um so Jo,
when you and I spoke with Alex McDonald the budget processes March through May. Now you have one cohort of people determining the budget. you change over to the new form of government in July with the May election and now you sort of hamstrung the new people in the
government. This is like their first time starting new form of government and now here's the budget, you're stuck with this for the rest of the year. It's sort of not setting them up for success. >> Yeah. >> And I guess the other thing just you know to make sure we are fully
comprehensive, there's no guarantee that you know a May election would be moved to November. Now in Redbank it did happen but depending on the body >> it's up to you about the body. So >> I mean got it. So so when they when they do that right they decided >> they just that was the first order of
business May to November but it >> depending on who gets elected >> kind of give themselves six extra months >> extra or less. Well, but they gave all of them extra
six months because instead of doing May yes, they did. Right. >> Right. >> So, putting it in June puts more options in front of people, >> but also makes it cleaner because now you don't have to deal with the May going to November the following year. Okay. >> Right. So, I think we all
>> and I I do think the momentum point is really strong. I remember when Joanna, you and Chris, you emailed Joanna, you emailed and you're like, "We finished all of the TC interviews and it was like the second week of December." I'm like, "Wow, that was really fast." >> Um, you know, >> municipal workers. Yeah. >> And there's something to be said, you
know, we've been living and breathing this for >> five months now essentially. >> Well, it's easier to dive in, right? And I think we're all we're all deep divers here. Um, and when we get involved in something, we're we're like all in is you know what I what I see what you I knew this was going to be, but I feel
like we all dove in. So, it's like to dive into this process now and to see it um abridged and and stalling would seem like it's counterintuitive. >> Right. Right. >> In my opinion, that's and that's that's where I came into this evening and I I was like I said a different place a
month ago and I know you were like in a totally different place because I was like you're there's no way you're going to see it any differently. But I feel like, you know, I think I guess what changed your mind is knowing that if people are already getting inflamed and and the action is going to happen, I guess maybe to, you know, our public
comment earlier, maybe if people are commenting now, you sometimes the negative attention is not terrible because it gets other people involved. So at the moment, while there's potential even for like, oh well, you didn't do it right or you didn't have enough days, maybe there is a great time to be like, capitalize on that. Let's
talk about that. Let's have a conversation. Then also quite frankly if there is negative attention at least the elections in June and we're not stretching this like that is true. >> I'd like to focus on Fourth of July and October Fest not negative. >> All right.
>> Okay. I would like to uh make a proposal uh for the special referendum uh for June 16th. Tuesday, t Tuesday, June June 16th. Um,
I was going to do a straw poll first, but now I think we should go to each commissioner and say >> roll on a roll. >> Before we vote, and this is I don't know if it matters, but I just look June 16th is Milburn has an early dismissal that
day. I don't know if that means anything. that good, bad, or >> um there's the schools are no longer polling places. So, >> yeah. >> No, but it it like it it looks like I just I just >> school
>> uh school's not over till >> 18th graduation. >> Oh, yeah. So, that Yeah. >> So, they're not leaving, >> right? And and >> well, I mean, I don't know when summer camps are. the summer camps. I don't remember, but you could have summer camp
drop offs on Wednesday. So, you lose some people who go to summer camp because >> Well, what happens on the 9th? >> June June 16th works >> I think in in in a in a lot of ways going forward to November, you know, and
and everything like that. I think it needs to be 60 days after the filing of the report and I think the 9th might be a little tight. >> Oh, that's too >> Yeah. All right. We just have to be aware that there's a certain segment of the population who are either bringing their kid
>> because Wednesday is a big drop off day for sleepwware camp that that way. >> Yeah, we love >> and you have graduation on Thursday and prom is probably Monday. So there's going to be >> vote by mail and ballot general these days.
>> Depends on on what has changed in our in our right >> federal some people are not available and they have the option to make >> only voting. >> I just again all all things being considered that that is going to be a busy week. >> That's okay. Well, but the thing is if
people can do mail in voting >> and if you can do early voting, >> I don't think you can there's no early voting for referenda. Yeah. >> Right. Right. But mail in is >> mail in is Yes. >> So then mail in if we tell people by this date mail in your vote because we
were doing that commissioner stuff too like mail in your vote. >> Yeah. >> How far before do we have to have a mail in vote? So, you can register to vote by mail by mail up to a week before the election. I believe you can register to
vote by mail in person up until two days before the I could be wrong. Um, but you'd have to submit your mail and ballot form to the clerk's office in New York. They will give you your mail and ballot. >> Well, no one's going to just go. >> So, basically a week a week before the election is essentially when the
election. So if if they're not already mail and ballot people, so if you're already signed up to do a mail and ballot, >> you'll get one. >> You'll get one. >> Yeah. >> And that could be part of our campaign. Um >> your mail and ballot. You don't have to >> or if you know you're going to be out of
town here, fill out a you can vote, you can register to vote by mail for just the next election. >> And if someone doesn't want to do it in perpetuity, they could just register to vote for mail for this one. I I can definitely see though we would have to address there will be some people
presumably saying hey they they hit it in this week because they wanted to hide it in this week because of and the school and stuff like that. So >> we're we're going to get bows and arrows from from certain segment of the people
in the township and then and then and then we're going to get extremely positive feedback from from people. Remember, I I speak to a fair amount of people and 43% of of of the folks here in town are
unaffiliated and the feedback that I'm getting from the positive folks are all for this. June 16th is not going to make a hill of beans to these to these folks. >> I think the seniors in high school will
actually still be around because they have to graduate. So, that's true. >> That that does help with >> That's true. So with that said, Dr. Khan, will you please do a roll call for June 16? Did you make a motion? >> Well, is there a second?
>> Sorry, I think Joanna >> Well, I just just I I I don't want to I don't want to dismiss it because I I think that, you know, again, we you're retired. I'm an empty neester. You don't have kids yet in the school district. You guys are the ones that are >> Yeah. Yeah, my point is that last year I
had a kid graduate that last week in particular because there was a 30-year-old decision that hasn't been overturned to have prom day of graduation which is nonsensical. >> My humble opinion. >> Um >> we're not voting. >> That week was redonkulous last week
especially because it was like a thousand degrees. And so you had prom on Monday, practice on Tuesday which would be this election. Then graduation on Wednesday, it was crazy. And then as also having a kids who were like you know 15 and 19 I do remember going to
sleep away camp that Wednesday and so you know packing for camp. Well >> I think it's like an early you were here that's what we were here >> I was you haven't left yet. >> You haven't left. >> Doesn't camp is the following. >> You could have voted.
>> No no I mean if you're dropping kids off you have to go to camp to drop them off. Not that I'm going. I know. >> No. I'm just saying that it means more >> you were physically present that >> not going to be childing that week. >> So, and and look, we're only talking about seniors and so that's a limited >> Yeah.
>> group of people. >> I just want to make sure that we're all going in with our wide eyes wide open. >> Well, if we're trying to do it before people go away, I think it it's either >> it's not even just away that they're distracted. Like I I think you're going to have most senior parents not gonna
think about going to vote in some special election on that Tuesday. But again, it's only a fraction. And this also, by the way, senior parents at the high school, not private school who probably already graduated. So it's probably a marginal fraction of the
>> well but if we can hopefully enlist you know like if we know that people are are having this as an issue and we target senior parents and we go to the you know whether it's Facebook groups or WhatsApp groups and we ask people in school district to say hey can you just you
know before you go to the seniors blah blah blah we have a coffee or something for your senior you know pick this up for your senior when you vote I don't know if there's some incentive for people to go out there and hear, you know, show the >> support or not support, you know, just to actually have their voices heard.
>> Yeah. Again, the the size of the percentage of the population that that >> it's maybe small, but we don't want them to feel like their voice doesn't matter. >> And that's why I'm bringing it up. Yeah. >> Right. And I and I do want to be cognizant of that, you know, but I know like I'm probably one of the busiest people I know. So, I still make it out to do the things that I've got to do. If
somebody is going to care enough, they're going to get out to vote. If they don't care, they're not going to go out tomorrow. If not, you ask Chris Rocker, >> right? Knock knock on their door. But but I think the bottom line is if you care enough, you're going to go to vote. If you don't care, you're not really going to go vote that day and you're not going
to go vote in November. >> And I I do think, you know, we should try to I think the 16th is a Tuesday. Um scheduling it on a Tuesday because people think Tuesdays are elections. Yeah, I agree. >> Yeah, I think the special election for the replacement for our congressperson
that was scheduled for a Thursday, which quite honestly, >> I almost forgot to go vote um in the primary because the primary was also a Thursday. And so I I do think, you know, we're not trying >> to look for Tuesday, >> right? So, we're not trying to, you know, pull a gotcha on anyone. We're
trying to maximize, you know, >> the attention to it. And I think Tuesday is >> Well, frankly, Thursday after graduation is not better. No, Thursday is graduation, right? >> Well, I think anything I think anything in official summer months when people are really like out of here, I think
that's terrible. Can't happen. >> Well, one thing since we're talking about this, private schools and maybe post week. So, summer vacation will be there for private school parents already on June 16th, but >> is it too early for them to vote by
mail? >> No, you can vote by mail. Vote by mail is 45 days before election day. >> So we would then have to expand our audience of people to target to be like, hey, vote by mail for the people. And again, that's you're we're presuming that every private school parent is
taking off that point and all their kids are in private school and they're going on vacation. >> Well, my point is there's always going to be a group of people for whom any particular date is not going to be great, but we're trying to at least say that for most people in town, they would not have begun their summer vacations
yet. So hopefully it's a date that works >> and plus folks have got to hang in town for July 4th. >> Well, it is the 250th celebration. We do have >> we do have expanded celebration back in Taylor Park. Rides, games, all that kind of stuff. So >> all right. All right.
>> You know Tuesday, July July 7th. I'm kidding. >> Um I already made the proposal. Dr. Khan, will you please >> I think we need a second. So you're making a motion >> to have recommendation for council to be a special referendum on Tuesday, June
16. >> June >> 16. >> All right, I'll take the role. Um, Mr. Biller, >> yes. >> Dr. Kong votes yes. Miss Parker Lens, >> yes. >> Mr. Tenner, >> yes. >> Mr. Ducker, >> yes. >> All right.
I'm very surprised at you. >> Thought you were a director number. >> He was a hold. >> Michael, thank you for coming, Michael. >> I'll be watching. >> My pleasure. I taking my notes here. We June 16th it is.
>> Thank you, Mike. >> Um, yeah, there is that. >> Yeah. Are you good with me departing? Is that >> a different mic? >> Oh, no. >> Second round of public comment. >> Yeah. Okay. I'm in no rush to go. I just want to make sure I'm
>> taking your leads, >> right? >> Okay. Um, you did that. All right. Public comment. Speak during the public comment period. Please follow these instructions. Ensure your Zoom display
uh name shows your first and last name. Uh, click raise your hand button. You will uh you will be called upon in order and promoted to the panelist. Please turn on your video when call to speak. Clearly state your full name and whether you are a Milbourne resident or business owner to facilitate an orderly meeting
and permit all to be heard. Please limit your comments to three minutes. A reminder that the public comment period is an opportunity for residents to share their views with the commission. Commissioners will not respond to questions or engage in dialogue during the speaking time, but will carefully consider all comments at the end of the
public comment period. Questions and discussion may may be addressed at the at the chair's discretion. And since I'm the chair, anyone that wants to speak, we will have dialogue. >> We have someone. >> All right. Let's let's have the Zoom person online, please.
>> All right. We have uh Beth. >> Hi. Hopefully you're hearing me. I don't know if my camera you told me to put it on. I don't know if it's working, but um >> Okay. Beth Z. I'm a resident in town. Um, and for those who may not know, I
have um already done the effort of having petition signed and submitted my paperwork to be running as a candidate uh in this November election. So, I appreciate uh at least the acknowledgement that um the decisions made tonight will have impacts on on a
few folks and I understand u the minority of of who it impacts directly, but um it certainly does uh have an impact. And I I'm still confused about some of the things um that were decided tonight. Um one, this 2026 year, we've
got lots of elections. We've got special elections. We have an election for the uh you know seat that was vacated by Mikey Cheryl. We had a primary. Now we have an upcoming election. Now you're proposing another special election. We also have the June primary that I'm
going to be on the ballot for June 2nd. And now you've just kind of rushed. You spent 35 minutes talking about whether it's a rush and how to get it in in 60 days. And it just just feels a little forced is is my uh reaction. Um, I also
am not understanding when the actual election would be. If you do this in June, does that mean that you're voting for a whole nonpartisan seven folks in November? And would I need to repetition for that? I'm just trying to understand how the process impacts me. And I also
think a lot of people are going to be confused about this. And having two special elections two weeks apart um just seems not a smooth idea. that that's from my perspective. So, um we also have bipartisan nonpartisan board
of ed elections in November. So, I I just I'm going to pause there to clarify because I feel confused and a little bit rushed on this process. So, I'll pause. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> You could
so I can clarify as far as timing goes. So >> good for legal counsel to clarify. >> Mike, you want to do >> is that a question for our legal counsel? Because it might be more simple the way you explain things. >> Well, some most people think attorneys complicate everything. Um
>> well then they're not going to get anything better for me. >> Uh to to I guess the general question is what is what would the happen to a current candidate for township committee? Um, if the referendum on June
16th were to pass, uh, given the timing, it that yes vote would occur a sufficient time in advance to allow for the new governing body to be elected through the November 2026 general
election. So, uh, that would then be on the ballot and you would have seven seats for council on that ballot. um any candidates who are interested in filing for that election, which would be nonpartisan based upon the recommendation, uh would file a petition
uh 75 days prior to the election. That would be the statutory deadline. And so, you know, anyone, I guess, who was running for township committee because they filed for the primary or you could actually have an independent candidate
file in June. Um any of those folks would be eligible to file in August. So, so >> what happens to for example Beth Saul who who just did the petition? >> Well, right. And so, so let me use >> her petition for >> No. So, so, so Beth and Bill who who
have submitted petitions to run. >> They would have to resubmit petitions and I acknowledge that that's a pain in the pain to to have to get signatures again. But I would also argue that it's having run in an election. The actual
running is a lot harder and a lot more stressful. So if it pass if we were to have the if we were to have voted for the referendum to be part of the general election in November, then you would have had to run your entire election in November. And then if the referendum
passes, you'd have to go through that entire process of one getting on the ballot again. So collecting signatures again and then going through a campaign again which is exhausting. So at least in this scenario yes you have to
recollect signatures but you would have had to collect signatures and run again. So it's more of a burger if if if the election was in November. >> I think in my view this is the least disruptive option for the current candidates is how I see it.
>> Yes. I nothing is completely non-disruptive, but is the least disruptive option. >> Charles Bambber, uh, 30-year resident of Northern Tri. I
prepared a whole statement and then I decided not say it in the first public comment because I trusted you and I said I was interested in hearing what you had to say unjaded by my opinion and I have
to say you got this right. You hit all the points that I have written down here. The one thing that I uh that I perhaps think you didn't say enough of that's important also is is
confusion. I mean I I would just see in November what the heck am I voting for? I'm voting for candidates but I'm also voting for a referendum which it passes. What did I even vote for these candidates for? You know, so I think the
the confusion part of it, you you addressed you you killed it by just making it now. I think, you know, the time is now. You folks have met. You've done a an admirable job. I I can't praise you enough. Uh it's in the public
eye, uh as Joanna said. So, um it's ready for a vote. I mean, why table it for eight months? you got the momentum and you know and if you need to send out circulars and everything else and it's
going to there's a cost to it, please come to the public. I'll contribute and no others will I believe in this. I believe you did the right thing and I'm behind you 100%. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else?
>> I'll let you go first. The only thing I would suggest with the council and that we make sure we got all the performance deadlines to make the June um 16th um special election, what things do you
have to do by statute? Like when do you have to have your final report done? When do you have to have the referendum question approved? So we have that we don't miss those deadlines and then this goal becomes moved and just when you do that deadline answer the question like
what Bethle said that what is 75 days what would it mean for this November you know what is the August date how many signatures you need because I think they it probably mirror the board of education deadline for candidates but my I don't know about the number of
signatures that are required but I think knowing what the deadlines or performance deadlines but you have a report I think you just maybe lit a fire under your counsel, you know, to have his report done and the referendum question done sooner rather than later
so you can make the um June 16th deadline. >> Can I >> Michael, can you please answer that? >> Yeah, certainly. So, um like Dr. Kong had um had mentioned um the referendum has to be between 60 and 120 days of the
approval of a final report. Uh the 60-day being the minimum. If you take 60 days off of June 16th, that gives you Friday, April 17th. So, uh the commission would have to um vote on the
report uh I'd say between now and the 17th. So, uh, we'll certainly provide real-time feedback when the report's available for, um, transmission to the commission. Uh, if there's any kind of attorney client conversations we have to have, we could have those. And the
commission will need to schedule a meeting if there isn't one already calendared within that time frame for that final adoption. >> And, >> well, I was waiting for final report from council. >> Yes. So, >> that's what we're waiting for.
>> Yeah. So, we're waiting we're waiting for you before I make the final meeting. >> And and I and I very much appreciate that. Um I I will tell you all that if you want to schedule the meeting for the week of the 13th, the week of April 13th, we'll make that work. Um that will
be sufficient time for us to get the report finalized. If you would rather wait for us to give you a little more detailed feedback and then notice the public, that would work as well. >> I guess we didn't ask your opinion. Can you get it done that fast? Sorry.
>> We've been working on it in anticipation of um you know needing to get it finalized in short order. >> Is there anything that we can do from our standpoint? Because I do I you know I heard the stress in Bethl's voice you like oh my god I just did this. Is there
anything we can do to try to help, you know, not streamlining a process because I certainly wouldn't be the first to like pretend to know what the process is except for gathering those signatures, but I mean obviously we know how difficult it was for us to gather signatures and and what it took. So, is
there a way to get the same people who signed her petition? I don't know how many people signed, but what what it took? Yeah. Is there a question the public? >> Well, I can make public comment and I think I can address a number of these things. Chairman, would you like to call on people? >> Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. Uh,
>> hi. Uh, Frank Sack, Mandy, and I'm not speaking as mayor tonight. I'm speaking in my personal capacity. So, as far as collecting signatures, anyone that's run for office knows you have to collect signatures. You guys have all done it. In fact, you guys have to collect a lot more signatures than a candidate uh for
local office would have to get. So, uh, as Mrs. all knows because I've seen her petition. Um, she simply went to the Democrat committee members and got all of them to sign her petition as well as their spouses and then some of her
neighbors. So, I imagine it could be done in very short order. It's not a very difficult thing to do. Something that I did, something that Ben did, and something that everyone up here has done. Getting signatures is not difficult to do. If you find it difficult to get those signatures, then you're going to find it even more
difficult to actually get elected because if you can't get people to sign their name on a ballot, not going to vote. So, I wouldn't worry about that. I'd like to commend this commission on their hard work. Uh, and all that you you have done. You guys have left no
stone unturned. I think you've done a fantastic job. I think the decision you arrived at to have the primary on its own is going to be in the best interest for everyone. I'm sorry. The referendum on its own uh is going to um be in the best interest of everyone because the
people that are going to come out to vote for it are the people that care and the people that actually are paying attention. Um and I think that's going to be a good thing. It's going to keep the national politics and and all that out of it. And it's going to let uh the voters really focus on what they
want for the future of their government here in Milbour. And I think that's part of what this commission was about to find a better form of government so that we have a better way uh forward. So I commend you on that. Uh I also think it's going to allow for everyone that
wants to run in November to have you know all summer they'll have a full campaign cycle. um because the referendum is very close to when the primary was and granted the primaries were uncontested really most of the campaigns don't really start in earnest until
after that primary season. So I think that everyone's going to be on a level playing field for whoever wants to run in November. So um I honestly think you guys made made the best choices and I thank you. >> Thank you. >> We have one more personal
story. That's that's >> um I just want to commend you guys also. I go to the township committee meetings and I have to say our township committee is great now. They get along so well and they're just smart and thoughtful and I feel the same coming to hear you guys
speak. So don't listen to the haters. I mean there's always these Johnny come lately who um it's like with complete streets and affordable housing all of a sudden something happens and said how did this happen? Well, you weren't paying attention. And it's very clear in
listening to all of you that you were so thoughtful and so deliberative. And um I really appreciate it. Good job. >> Thank you. >> Um we have someone online, Cheryl Dearis. >> Cheryl. >> Cheryl.
>> Hi. Can you hear me? >> Yes. Hi. Hi, Cheryl Dearis. Um, 35-y year resident of Milbour. I just want to make two points. I know you've made your decision, but um I think when you were formed, it wasn't only
the commission that thought that the um the vote on the referendum would be in November. I think the general public was led to believe that the referendum would be in November. And I just want to bring up that point. And I also want to bring
up what Beth said is that there is a special election in April to fill Mikey's seat. There is a primary June 2nd and this election would be June 16th. So you're going to have if you do this election on June 16th, you're going
to have three elections in a three-month period. And I just not sure you are fully considering the mean the impact of that. >> That's all. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Um,
one more. >> Oh, one more. >> Hi everyone. Regina Truit again. Thanks for your service. Just a couple of comments. Um, I agree with uh what Miss Zaul and um also Miss Desmare just stated. And I also want to just just
comment that um our current mayor Frank Sakamati who is running against Miss Zaul by the way um making the statement that Beth all Beth Zaul did was to get signatures from members of the Democratic committee and their spouses. Um to date when I last looked at that um
they got nearly or over 80 signatures. So that's that's that's way more than there are in the Democratic committee. And so that that statement is false. It's also very partisan. I'm just laughing at the irony of trying to get rid of partisan politics when of course you have people very partisan who are on your township committee right now
including Mayor Sakamati who just made that comment. And then the last comment about don't listen to the haters. I'm going to say that's exactly who you should be listening to. The haters are residents too. The people who don't agree with you are exactly the people you should be reaching out to. You should find out what's what's on their
minds and how you can serve them because to listen to just the people who are agreeing with you is probably not even half the people or maybe half the people. But you should absolutely be listening to the haters and the people who disagree with you no matter what your point is. Thanks.
>> And can I reply to that for one second? >> I hate I visited haters in their own homes who told me that they totally disagreed with me and I was absolutely happy to hear opinions because that's exactly what I was there for. um you know we open ourselves up for as much transparent you know dialogue and focus groups and begging people to
invite us to their homes and and meet with them. So I absolutely agree. I want to hear all the opinions. >> Um and I think I wish that the opinions would have shown up you know for the past 16 meetings because it would have been great to hear many more opinions um
in addition to the ones we were formally soliciting. I >> I I echo that wholeheartedly. I have been begging people to show up and participate from both sides. At the meeting on Sunday when we had members of the public that I
knew represented positions on both sides of it, I specifically made a statement to the public to let everybody have their opinion because we want to hear everyone's opinion. I reached out to people who I knew were opposed to this
and I asked them to please show up and I told them when meetings were and I asked them to please show up. I even made a notice that I gave that all they had to do was send it out and I said, "Please send it out. Please show up." And guess
what? Nobody showed up until today. We tried. That's all we did. We did our best to try. I specifically tried to get both sides in the room so that we can deliberate with both sides on the issue. >> There were people from this side for our last >> I have no regrets about the process.
Absolutely. >> Can you clarify my comment? >> I don't know. I know you're not probably supposed to have another >> Let's not turn it into a back and forth. >> Go ahead. I just want to say my comment about don't listen to the haters was now that you've made your decision because you clearly did listen to the haters
because I heard you say that last week. You listen to everybody. You were all over the place. Some of you changed your mind. So I meant now that your decision is final. You you clearly, you know, were guided by your heart and by listening to everybody's.
>> Yeah. And Alex McConnell resident. Uh I just want to say that as we've discuss as you guys have discussed here already the end of the day this is also merely a recommendation. There are going to be another two and a half months before the election for the people to make their
decision on whether or not this is a good idea or not. Um and there's going to be plenty of opportunity for the campaigns out there to educate people even further. So, there's going to be plenty of time for people to come up and uh and make an informed decision. Um, and there's going to be plenty more
opportunity for debate across the uh the different uh opinions that exist in town. So, um I I don't think this has been a rushed process. I think this is um and and as also discussed, this is going to bring a spotlight to this
issue. Um so, I think there's there's going to be a you know spirited debate for the next two and a half months. and I think it's plenty of time uh for people to come uh to an informed decision come June 16. So, thank you. >> Okay, let me let me use the soap box
while I have it still. Um, I think this is just what's happening over the last week is sort of just epitomizes what's what how issues are treated in this town in that people don't show up
in the right times and provide input in time so that decisions are made with everybody's opinion. And then after a decision is made, everyone pretends that they're shocked that something happened and nobody had the the ability to weigh
in. And yeah, it's true. People now will have the the opportunity to vote on it. But that's reactionary. We need to start getting more of a proactive residential participation so that everyone's voice is heard and ultimately if if a decision turns out
not the way you wanted, at least your voice was heard and we have an informed decision. That was the hallmark of what we tried to do in this. No, we didn't try. That is the hallmark of what we did do >> is we tried to bring as much in and
encourage as much participation. And so if you're unhappy with the outcome and you participated, that I understand. If you're unhappy with the outcome and you didn't participate, that's on you. >> Did I ask how many people filled in the
questionnaire? We had public input form. >> Let me just give you a real time because the last time I checked it was zero. Um but I will will look at it right now. >> It was zero. >> Um and >> it is still at zero, >> right? Um if this
>> take a screenshot I want to record. >> Yeah. >> Well, I just want to say that in the interest of scholating public input, there was a form that anyone in the township could have filled and
communicated their view to the commission without needing to come to the meetings. It's unfortunate that u our citizens didn't take advantage of that. Having said that, we have always had an open
ear. We have wanted to listen to everyone and um to be honest, it's great that we see candidates already signed up to serve the township and >> yeah, >> I applaud that. I applaud that has a
Misol has a good record of volunteering and service to the town and hopefully depending on the outcome of the referendum she will still be on the ballot. Um just just for uh me um if the uh
referendum passes, >> I have formulated a recommendation list for the new town township council. And um I'm not going
to elaborate on what actually Dr. Khan and I spent a couple of hours on this >> and um >> well actually this might be a good time to loop in council on it. Um if we >> beyond our recommendations for the formal recommendation change of
government >> if we have through the course of our interviews identified some best practices >> sort of not like legally binding or anything just say hey this is just a heads up to the people elected to the new governing body these are some things you may want to consider. Um, is that is
there space for that in the report? >> Yeah, I think I think if you guys would want to include something of that nature. Um, I think you could you'll have the report in Word and feel free to annotate it as as you see fit.
>> Perfect. Got it. because you know um we interview Verona a lot and uh X their township council they have once a month
and not in their town hall in a forum like this they invite township people to come and just talk whether it be you know whatever they want you know positive positive negative what's what's
going on and they they invite their uh town council if if if if they want to come. So that's one of the recommendations that I would like to see implemented, you know, and I I have a
list of other stuff, but um right now I'm focused on the uh special, you know, referendum. >> Uh so we have two more people online. Uh, let me >> Hi there, Dean Pastor Knack. I just wanted to I'm a resident. Sorry. I
wanted to again say thank you to each one of you for the hard work that you put in on behalf of our township. Thank you again. Um, I wanted to just make a couple of points. First of all, um I know I've been involved and I'm sure you're aware since 2023 in um elections
in town and I can say without any doubt I heard resoundingly throughout the year of 23, 24, and 25 the real depth of of interest by so many of our township
voters that they would like to see a new form of government and specifically nonpart partisan elections. It it it's not even close. I mean, you saw it in the vote. 67% of the people voted for Ben and Frank, and that was one of their
very prominent planks of their election. Uh and again um you saw it in your own election uh this past whatever November where I guess it was close to the same percentage of people who voted in favor of all of you and the title of your
um I guess your slate had the name nonpartisan in it. So I don't think that this is something new to our town at all. I believe many people are very aware and um are very much in favor. So, I don't think you're working in the dark
at all. I think you've heard loud and clear from our community and I thank you for listening. Um, and the second thing I wanted to say regarding the petitions, it is a it is a job, but uh I would have to say in and in and um sort of out
backing up what Frank is saying, normally what's done is the petitions are presented to the committees the you know the Democratic and Republican committee members both they uh members sign as well as their spouses uh if they
have a spouse and um friends of the candidate. candidates and it really yes it's time consuming but it's not like you have to walk the streets and it's not like campaigning it really isn't so I don't think it's difficult and I don't think it's a real obstacle uh given the
benefits of what you've um suggested for our community in in your report to becoming so thank you again >> thank you Jean uh Dr. We have one more. >> Mike Becker. You could have said Mike
Becker. >> I don't know where. >> Michael Becker. >> Am I on? I don't see a camera. >> You're on. >> Okay. Mike Becker, 50-year resident. The reason why I First of all, thank you very much. I thought you did a great job and I learned a lot looking at all those
videos and reading all those examples and legal transcripts from the other the other towns. I learned a lot. The reason I I believe you did the right thing going to June 16th is when you put a referendum on an election in November,
it was like when remember we added pennies for acreage in the county and you voted for it. I don't even know if >> it was it became so unimportant. I mean, it passed and but I think if you're
making a decision, yes or no, on something as important as as partisanship or nonpartisanship, I think to keep it separate from partisan politics, I think that in itself is is a good idea and it makes it
makes the issue more important. And I do hope that people aren't gone and they'll show up and they'll vote by mail and it'll be a very powerful strong vote and uh I'm I'm voting yes. Thank you for your help.
>> Thank you. Um anyone else? >> Um anyone else wishing to speak? >> No one else wishes to be heard. Any commissioners have anything else to say? >> Have a good holiday.
>> I'm sorry. >> Have a good holiday for >> I think we still have our jobs cut out for for us. I think we have to go out there and educate people on the process that we went through and get people to make up their decisions whether they
agree with us or not. you know, they just need to understand what we went through in terms of the process and and the the research and, you know, pick our brains. We're here. I just wanted to make a point I didn't earlier. You know,
I don't believe that legally we're required to post all the videos of our meetings. Um, nor are we required to have a second round of public comment, which, you know, I know that many people have taken advantage of. So, you know, if anyone wants to, you know, complain about transparency, I I feel like, you
know, we've tried our best as a public body to engage the public to the extent possible. Um, we've gone, I think, way above what is minimally required and, you know, we we have tried. Um, and so folks are coming at this hour and
complaining about transparency, then I think I agree with what Corey said, you know, sort of on them. has been been on the public record for since we started. >> All right. Now that I go ahead the comment about this feeling a little rushed u I think the decision we
recommended to council to write the report on was made last week Thursday. >> Last Thursday. Yes. >> Yeah. >> So our views have on what to do next of where the referendum is going have been public since last Thursday. The election is happening on June 16th. It's close to
three months of >> that decision being out there in public for people to think about deliberate on debate. So I hope it doesn't feel rushed, >> right? >> There is enough time there for people to think about this important question and
make their voice heard on June 16th. >> And certainly I think you know I'm speaking for myself. I'm happy to do whatever you know will make that happen. you know, I'm here marked time for, you know, weekly meetings to continue meeting until June. Um, if anyone wants
to come, um, we'll have fewer quorum issues after the report is finally filed. Um, but, you know, happy to do office hours, set up appointments. >> CD B center is available. >> You know, I'm the secretary, but CD is the one who makes sure the Bower Center
is available. So, >> um, that I have a little mission. Um, should we use our home go to get the flyers out and saying yes? >> I'm going to jump in, chairman. I I
would advise that the commission um if if the commissioners are going to consider those types of endeavors. Those really would not be in your official capacity here as commissioners and that that those considerations be taken to a different venue.
>> So, you're shooting me down. Okay. I am. I'm sorry, but protecting you. >> You protected me. >> Jeff already said no. So, >> we're here here to answer questions. We're here to you know, I mean, we're here to justify how we came to the
decision that we each individually did that became a collective decision. Um, and you know, and and help people understand how we got there if they want to have their mind changed or not or challenged. If people have made up their minds and are not willing to hear what
the process we went through, then we're not going to change anybody's minds. But if someone is approaching it the way that, you know, you said eloquently that, you know, you you're willing to change your mind, right? And and you know, and I think we all have changed our minds in on different things. I was
shocked that you even like remotely considered November, but I understand why. It's like, oh, shine a spotlight. I get it. If the attention's coming now, let's do it now. So I think and I think Shanak, you were in the same as we drove over here like Matt, I'm in the other place. So we constantly surprise each
other with with the things that we're agreeable to hear each other out on because we do respect each other's opinions. So if the public wants to come here and say, "Hey, I don't agree with you, but challenge me. Ask me why I, you know, tell me why I should change my opinion." And and I'm happy to have a a
a nice debate about it without fighting with anybody because if you don't change your mind, fabulous. But I can tell you how I changed my mind on every topic maybe once or twice throughout the process. So >> there are very few decisions you're going to make or opinions you're going to form that are 100% in life.
>> Some people do and when they do, you're not going to ever be able to challenge them. >> Yeah, I I suppose that's unfortunate. I guess I guess. Um so just, you know, just engage that intellectual curiosity and just ask the question why. Be open to change and and hear people out.
It's a lot less stressful living life that way and and you're usually more satisfied with the outcome. And we remain open to discussing our perspectives and why we came to the outcome. >> Exactly. Because what what I found the most insulting to me in in in the text that I got was it was a foregone
conclusion is to just say, you know, you made up your mind before and it's it's just not the kind of person I am. So, it's like I just was like, wow. Okay. Um and I don't want anyone to think that there was a foregone conclusion. And I'd like to be able to explain to anybody who would like to chat with me um you know to say how did
you come to these decisions? What happened? What what made you think you know which interviews were most least important? I'm happy to have those conversations with anybody who's willing to have them with me if I find the time. I >> I think in terms of foregone conclusions I think I had heard at least that
certain members of the community had foregone conclusions about you know being opposed to whatever we came up with and so >> correct. You know >> I was told that. >> Yeah. Yeah. When I went into people's certain people's homes, they were like, "Well, I don't care what questions you ask because I'm not going to agree with you no matter what."
>> Um, but that was also >> I just want to I'm being a dead horse here. But I just want to say again, I don't want people to lose using multiple expressions. Mr. Forest for the trees, Mr. Forest for trees. We It's important for us to address some basic concerns
brought up in our interviews that we move to the Faulner Act form of color. >> Right? That's the simplest, right? >> That's the main recommendation this commission's making. Now, within that form, there are alternatives. Five members versus seven, partisan elections versus nonpartisan, directly elected
mayors versus uh council elected mayors. All those options. There are ways to change them depending on whether the community likes what we recommend or not. Be four years or something. Council, correct me if I'm wrong there, but >> four years. Four years.
>> That's what we last heard. So if if some people in the community don't like seven seats versus five or some people don't like partisan versus nonpartisan elections, recognize that there is a way to change those aspects through the elected body without going to the
charter commission. But but we will not get this opportunity again to change into a Faulner Act form of government. So let's just not lose sight of that. That is really an important point and that's why I keep repeating it. >> Nothing we're doing here. Even if you
vote yes on the recommendation, nothing is permanent in that sense. There is >> you don't have to love every part of it and I may not love every part of it. >> What I would like people to give it a shot for four years. And what I would also like to say just to to piggyback on a little bit the last time that we all met and I said if I don't like what's
happening in four years I myself said pitchfork in hand I'll go in and help whoever wants to change things to say or gavvel in hand this didn't work let's try something else and I'll be the first to like help lead the charge and you can hold my feet to the fire four years from
now because I'm not going anywhere. But to Shanuk's very very foundationally critical point is that if we don't pass and and vote to go to a Faulner Act government, we can't nobody has that right.
Yeah. So whether >> yeah I think that's that's the critical thing to consider is that you might not like every element of what was recommended in this report but what's most critical is the base question of whether we move to that falconer act
because you can always change the other things. I agree. We should let's give it some time and let it marinate. But at the end of the day is that if you want the ability to change things in the future, then the fulner act is the way we have to go. >> Yeah.
>> Faulner act form of government. >> Thank you. And that's how come we have you sh because you're very intelligent. you think about things whereas whereas >> whereas whereas Chris Strucker is a former trader you know
>> buy it just say it's only money anyway um anyone else thank you commissioners I now close the public comment period are there any comments from we did the commissioners and now
for the final thing may I have a motion to adjourn. So, >> move second. All in favor? >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks, Mike. >> Good night, everyone. >> Thank you. Take care.