ready. >> Okay. >> Always love doing that. I don't know why >> that was me. Can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Perfect. Okay. >> Good evening everyone. Welcome to the March 12, 2026 meeting of the Milbourne Township Charter Study Commission, which
is called to order. In accordance with section five of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, public laws 1975, be advised that the notice of this meeting was made by posting under Bolton board in the town hall and forwarding to the officially designated newspaper that
this meeting would take place at the Bower Center at 8:00 on Thursday, March 12th, 2026. Meeting meeting details in the draft agenda have have been posted. I would uh kindly ask everyone to please stand for the pledge of allegiance to
the plead us to the flag of the United States of America to the stands one nationisible and justice for all. >> Thank you.
All right. Uh I will now um I will now call a roll call uh vote to note those who was present. Dr. Con, >> Mr. Miller >> here, >> Dr. Cummings is here. Miss Parker Lent >> here, >> Mr. Penna,
>> Mr. Ducker >> here. We note that we also have council Suzanne Saskco in attendance and we have Nancy By Blackwood and Ben Forest attending via Zoom. >> Thank you. Uh the record will show that we have a quorum for this meeting.
May I have a motion to approve the agenda? >> So moved. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. Thank you. >> May I have a motion to approve the March 4th, 2026 meeting minutes? >> Motion.
>> Motion. Okay. Is there a second? Good. All in favor? >> Great. Uh are there any commissioners with reports since our last meeting? I mean, we can do a quick report. >> Yeah, we'll do a quick report. >> Yes. So, quick report. We had a
fantastic uh interview today with um business administrator at Mountain Lakes and Alex was present for it because we wanted to make sure that Alex's concerns about, you know, seven person versus five person versus any other size and any other, you know, aspects of the town
government that they have would be addressed. So it was a fascinating um set of perspectives that flip-flop the way I started to even think about coalesing these numbers and and you know synthesizing everybody else's information. And it was just really he
made me think about it again and just I thought I was like okay I think I got this boom. It was just so such a good meeting that I really like when somebody challenges my perspective again. And I think the way that Alex was able to ask
his questions made me feel like I don't want to upend things by making decisions as a group or at the moment we haven't we can't because we haven't talked about it. But for myself, I just I always think what don't we know and how to future proof it because we don't want to create problems down the road that
future TC's that may change drastically um can't anticipate. So just trying to be really mindful of you know of things like that. And tomorrow we're having another VA interview with Alex McDonald as well to make sure that he's part of the process and asks his questions and
we're confident in you know his feeling okay. So, I thought that was really, you know, very informative and I know you're going to have notes on it. So, >> Dr. Khan, do you just have a little uh of it also? >> Um, no, I felt very much the same way. I think it's interesting to see sort of
the way other municipalities do things. >> Yeah. >> Um, and from just a operational perspective, >> he gave some good ideas too. I think it while we can't we can't change those things, but we can recommend some some things that he does. And Alex was really I thought he was really appreciated the
slight differences and and we'll put into play what his suggestions were to make things feel civil for the future and see the TC members as fellow neighbors and not just people who just got elected with you and are pro or against you. So I think there are some
great ideas and I felt really good about it. >> Good. I look forward we we all look forward to >> the report. Yeah. >> To to the report. >> Yeah. Um and a separate report um we Chris and I met with Joe Dearco um in 57
he's a township manager um was formerly of Verona for an interim that was his last stint but he had been a manager in I think seven other municipalities um many of which were burrow councils >> that's who came recommended from >> yes from mayor Timona
um he had a 57y year career and there was just a lot of stuff that This this this person also was extremely informative. >> Well, it's nice people have perspectives from different townships. And I think the nice thing about today's VA is that
he's been in multiple places. He comes from you know different sizes of you know the you know council and different forms of government. And it was interesting his perspective on a directly elected versus nondirectly elected that really kind of challenged the way I was thinking about things. and
he produced ideas that could be problematic with a directly elected that I really hadn't previously thought. So, it was really like, you know, I I just love the fact that we get these challenges even though we talked to so many people. So, I think it's really was good. Good. >> Tomorrow will be great too, I'm sure.
>> Thank you. Are there any other reports? >> Uh, seeing none, let's move on. Uh public comment to speak during the public comment period. Please follow these instructions. Ensure your Zoom display name show shows your first and
last name. Click the raise raise hand button. You will be called upon in order and promoted to the panelist. Please turn on your video when called to speak. Clearly state your full name and whether you are a Milbourne resident or a business owner to facilitate an orderly meeting and permit all to be heard.
Please limit your comments to three minutes. A reminder that the public comment period is an opportunity for residents to share their views with the commission. Commissioners will not respond to questions or engage in dialogue during the speaking time, but will carefully consider all comments at
the end of the public comment period. Questions and discussion may be addressed at the chair's discretion. Anyone have a comment just yet? Jay >> uh Jay Morelli uh representing Jay
Moreli tonight uh we couldn't get our little uh commission together due to some uh personal challenges uh that a couple of our members are having uh uh first I'd like to commend the commission on last week's
interview with Mayor Cam Burrow. Um I thought it was fantastic. uh uh it uh good discussion, good topics, good questions and also commend the uh commission on the outreach efforts. I think uh uh Joanna, you're doing a
fantastic job uh with all your outreach. So kudos on that. >> Just Joanna, >> I haven't gotten any emails from you, Chris. I hate to say it. Um also like to say hi to uh Nancy and
Ben. Ben, we spoke on the phone. Nancy, you spoke at uh the uh event we had. So, thank you both. Um uh uh and I've got a question I'm hoping the council can answer, and it's in light of the comments made by Mayor
Tamber regarding the bylaws of the political parties in Verona that have prohibited them from endorsing candidates. Um my understanding in the case of nonpartisan uh elections that there is no
requirement that parties uh uh are prohibited from uh endorsing candidates. They can continue to operate the way they do today. They can select candidates. They can hold fundraising events. They can solicit campaign contributions from external sources
sources. They could provide campaign assistance uh in the form of canvasing, gathering signatures, um and doing everything they do today with the exception of obviously being involved in a a primary uh as there would be no primary in a nonpartisan
election. That's my understanding. Um, and if that is correct, um, would the commission consider as part of its report, uh, any recommendations on what political parties,
what the commission thinks they should do or not do uh, in the case of nonpartisan elections, realizing that they are not bound to any recommendations from the commission, obviously, but I thought the fact that Verona uh their parties decided not to
endorse candidates. I thought that was a fantastic thing. Uh and and actually it makes nonpartisan elections a lot more meaningful uh in my humble opinion in that case. Um and I'd like to make a a comment
regarding uh the pothole references that seem to come up from meeting to meeting. Um and the commission what they're considering is not nonpartisan government versus partisan government. Government is the government and if it's
partisan it's dependent on the people that are in office whether they act in a partisan manner or not. >> Jay Jay I'm going to stop you there and when we go to the next section I'm going to let you speak again because you know we we want to get the interviews going. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Thank Thank you. >> Jeff um poet section. >> Um I really want echo him. I really want to compliment you because the last two meetings were excellent with the interview and the presentation by Michael Collins. And I think tonight it's just going to continue this
pattern. However, at the last meeting, the Verona mayor raised a very interesting point about there being a being subject to a employment a three-year employment contract. I do not believe Alex after his first retention
has ever been subject to another public notice um retention contract and that's something that you might want to investigate or be one of your recommendations that whoever the VA is that he's like the superintendent subject to a employment contract.
Um, another grounds for why you might want to consider the Faulner Act to sol cons solidate functions. I've learned today of a public law 2026 chapter 185 that was signed into law at the end of
December by by and that one specifically says duties if you're a faulner act of the business administrator when you're in the manager council form of government where they put deadlines of when the the BA has to submit to the
council the proposed budget and it also has dates where the council has to adopt introduce the budget and then to adopt the budget. They amended general dates but that's something that you might want to say was as we always discussed we didn't go to the forner act but we
created this this entity this position called DA but the question is where is really his duties coming from is it from ordinance rather than you know state law and that might be one of the reasons go to Faulner act specifically says what his additional duties are based on amended law
>> Dr. Con wrote wrote down both you guys request. >> Okay. Um >> I think Mr. Becker >> Oh Mike Becker and this is my 50th year
in town. I'm glad to say proud to say I thought the mayor of Verona was excellent. I thought he really made a lot of sense and I thought that was great. Because I'm 105 years old. My question's probably been answered before. I probably asked it before.
>> Um, when you poke these names of the people that you're talking to. >> Yes. >> I thought at one time you said it put pressure their names when you do your final decision and your final report
>> to the state and the town. >> Are you using the names or is it just the town people that you can't use the names? I wasn't clear on that. >> All right. Let me uh let me answer that real fast. When either uh Commissioner Joanna [ __ ] Lens and myself interview
somebody or when myself and Dr. Khan interview somebody, uh we always we we always tell them that, you know, we're not going to quote them. And then halfway during the uh conversation, they say, "Please quote me." No, they do.
>> It's the municipal workers. >> Do they ever say Do they ever say, "I'd rather not be quoted." Any of these people? >> I'm sorry. >> Do Do any of these people ever say, "I'd rather you not use my name?" >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you have And >> you have to abide by Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Now it's clear. >> Municipal employees is really who we
were saying. We're not using municipal employees names >> at all. >> At all. And and we've obviously interviewed the department heads, so it's obvious who we interviewed. But TC people, yes, those names are going to be in the in the report. Everybody who was interviewed who was an elected member or you know obviously the folks who we went
out to visit will be in the report. So just be please >> uh great Dr. Khan is there anyone on Zoom? >> Everybody else >> anyone on Zoom is wishing to speak you may raise your hand now. >> Okay great I now close the first public
comment period. Are there comments? Uh are there any comments from the commission regarding any comments made by the public? I think uh let's continue on >> the interviews or >> Yeah. Yeah. Let's let's question after. >> Yeah. Yeah. Let's >> have more questions.
>> Let's do the uh interviews. And I'm not I'm not like any other uh uh commissioner in town. I like to have dialogue. So, we will have we'll have a chat after. Anyway, interviews. Tonight,
we have the distinct pleasure of interviewing current Redback Council members Nancy Facy Blackwood and Ben Forester, uh, who both also served on the 2022 Redbank Charter Study Commission. Miss Facy Blackwood is a
passionate community leader who served as the chair of the Redbank Charter Study Commission. Miss Facy Blackwood reserve uh received a distinguished uh civic leadership award from the New Jersey chapter of the American Planning
Association. Her accomplishments include include leading Redback uh Red Bank's green team and environmental commission to earn sustainable Jersey silver level certificate, championing complete and green streets initiatives and
implementing the Redbank pedestrian safety demonstration project and much much more. a former computer program uh telecommunication system engineer and consultant, Miss Spacy Blackwood brings
a logical approach to analysis and has decades of experience working collaboratively to solve problems. Mr. Forester uh is a longtime New Jersey and Redbank community activist. Prior to join
joining the Redbank Burough Council in 2023, he served a 19-year ten tenure of the Redbank Board of Education with three terms as president. He serves on the Fort Mamemoth Environmental Advisory Commission since the closure of the base
and currently serves as council leazison to the parks and recreation commission and to the Redbank public schools. He was reelected to Burough Council in 2025. 29-year uh Redbank resident and self-employed computer support
consultant. Mr. Forest uh brings to public service a deep commitment to long long-term thinking over short-term politics and a belief that good local government is above all about getting
things done. We're extremely grateful that they are able to join us today. Without further ado, let's start the questions. I will start the questions. Thank you folks again for uh being here. Um
Red Bank completed its own chart of study in 2022 and converted to a council manager form of government. Before we get into specifics to for the benefit of our residents watching, can each of you
briefly describe what Red Bank's uh government looks like today? Um Nancy, will you start please? >> Uh yeah, thank you so much for having me and um Ben, I'll leave lots of stuff for
you to add as well. Uh, I would say our government is running effectively and efficiently, which was one of the things, one of our goals in the charter study commission to create an effective and efficient government.
Excuse the noise back there. And um I can also say uh we ended up accomplishing or alleviating a lot of the challenges that our government had. So now we have a clear path to get
things done in a timely manner which was very important. Ben. >> Ben, would you like to muted? >> Oh, >> Ben has to get off the mute. >> She stopped quicker than I thought. >> Oh, damn.
>> So, so these uh she was our chair, by the way, of the charter commission, which I think you did mention in the the laundry list of her accomplishments. >> Uh so, she really led us, you know, in that whole endeavor. Um and we had our form of government for
106 years. So it was quite you know quite a long time. Um anyway how's it working now? Would you mind chairman repeating that question? >> Sure. Uh before we get into specifics for the benefit of our residents
watching can each of you briefly describe what Redbank's government looks like today? >> Okay. So we have as you mentioned the the manager former government. So today we got a report like at our council meeting just tonight we were you see I'm
all dressed up um we were just at our council meeting. >> I love that we have increased accountability. Like one of the pet peeves if you like that I had with our former former government was that we didn't do evaluations of our chief administrators.
We do that now. Um we uh we have cleaner and direct you know structure for supervision and lines of communication. Um you know Redbank um we were kind of a mess before in my opinion. Um one of the
things it did mention I think in my bio was that I was a citizen activist. I'm not that anymore now now that I'm elected official but I was probably going to our council meetings for almost as long as I lived here which is 30 years. So I was like the gentlemen sitting in those seats I guess over there who go and attend you know I was
ident I'm identifying with you guys over there I was listening earlier >> um you know and you know we have our own little history of the good the bad and the ugly and it's not to say that our previous governing bodies didn't do great things also uh I think we're doing
well I think we're doing better than we have um and I'm pleased to be pleased and honored to be part of it we really had a long list of stuff that was neglected in our town from parks to buildings to little things and um you know I just see the checklist you know a
lot of stuff getting done and so I guess sort of the bottom line is that >> great thank you. >> Um Nancy can you unmute >> there? >> Yes. Uh
um and for context, what was the biggest problem the old structure had that the charter ch uh charter change was designed to solve? >> Um one of the biggest challenges that
uh that we found that our former government had was interference in day-to-day operations by council members. uh talking to department heads, interfering uh with the work that the administrator
at the time would do if it was something that they were not in favor of. And that created a lot of um conflict with our department heads and employees because they really didn't know who they reported to, right? So one
thing that the council manager former government gave did us did for us is it created a separation and chain of command. So council and the mayor we focus on policy and legislation. The day-to-day is handled by our town
manager who is responsible for his department heads and so on and so forth. You know all the way down as Ben mentioned um the appraisal of the town manager. That's something that the borrow didn't have before. Actually, they didn't have appraisals of the um
departments as well. So, that has been structured. There's a clear chain of command. And one thing that I have observed uh in that difference is that um the employees seem to they they appear to be happier and you know they
they really like working under this form of government. One other thing that had that uh constrained us uh quite a bit in our old form of government was that it was a partisan form of government and every year there would be council people up for election. So as a result people
are looking to say what can I do so I can get reelected right as opposed to spending the time working on the projects that had to get done. And you know, sometimes some of the policy and legislation is uncomfortable. So maybe they wouldn't want to do it because
it might not be something that's popular with many people, but it is necessary. So um with our change over from partisan to nonpartisan form of government and elections every two years, we can focus on getting things done. And we're taking
on some very big projects. And we have a very um we have an excellent manager who helps you know who basically runs the day-to-day. Um one of my philosophies are uh our departments and our municipal employees are trained. They have
certification. They have 10,000 hours worth of service. So that's who you should really lean on from that dayto day. And me as a council member, I don't have that expertise. So, you should let them do their job as long as we're focusing on what the overall picture
should look like. >> Thank you. Uh, Ben, do you have anything to add to >> Nancy's? >> Well, I g I guess uh I mean, I'm not quite sure which question you're on here. I did read through your your questions there and I guess I would add >> Let me let me say the question again.
>> Okay. And for context, what was the biggest problem the old structure had that the chartered chartered change was designed to solve? >> Okay. Well, I I really love that anyone can really
run. I mean, sure, technically under the old system, you could run um you know, you could get a petition and and run off the line, but um I don't know. It was a pretty I don't think it ever happened
when I was there. I could be wrong. Um, you know, but it would always either be it would usually be Democrats in our town, but sometimes Republicans would win and take a majority and it would kind of go back and forth. Um, one thing that Nancy touched on that I couldn't agree with her more on is this business of having elections every year. I don't
know what you do in Milbourne, but we had elections every year and it's exhausting and it really kind of was toxic for the town. It was just too much drama hair pulling and I I don't have a lot of hair so I don't want to do any any hair pulling and um it it was
getting out of out of hand. You know I'm I'm in obviously I was am in one of the party structures. I happen to be a Democratic committee member so I was in that but we had fighting among ourselves. Um you we had a we had a whole big messy um fight among the
committee members and it was uh awful and um you know so one of the things that I really am glad we did was we we reduced elections to every two years and sometimes I wonder should we have gone with a four-year model where elections every four years um but we went with a
two-year kind of thing because we you know we had had elections every every year so it seemed reasonable that instead of going into all four years, we sort of compromised from having an election every two years. So, three of us are elected. Uh NY's in the next cycle with the mayor and another council
member and uh I was just in the last cycle. I had like a special short term because, you know, we just reset our form of government. So, the reset meant that I had a basically a two and a half year term, which is a little weird, but uh it's fine. And uh we ran on a post.
Um but anybody can run which is which is powerful I think and you know be viable. Of course there's you know unfairness in elections and who has money and who doesn't. Uh but um I think it's a lot better than it was. I don't know if that answers your question Mr. Chairman.
>> Yeah. Thank you Ben. Uh Nancy. >> Yes. Would you say that the change to a council manager form of government successfully resolved the issues that you had been experienced under the previous form of government?
>> Uh so far I would say yes. Um, reason being, as Ben alluded to, anybody can run. And at the time, uh, when we were doing the charter study commission, you had the whole party line system. And that was, um, that meant like if you
were >> not one of the anointed candidates through the actual party, you ended up in B in ballot Siberia. So, you know, that got eliminated and um, everyone gets a fair draw on the ballot. And
again, it's a matter about how you campaign. Um, one thing I also want to mention, instead of going to every four years, one of the options we had was that, but it meant everybody would have to run at the same time. And the drawback we thought for us would be you
could get a whole new council. And so therefore, you know, you have to bring a whole new council up to speed. with every two years you can balance that out, you know, between an experienced council member and um a new council member. >> So, yes, I think it did solve the the
problem that we had to have. Um Redbank was so dysfunctional at the time that we couldn't hire we couldn't find people to take over the role as a as administrator or a CFO or things like that. So once you know the air cleared for one or
better word because we were it was so contentious um we were able to recruit a lot of excellent people to our municipal government. >> Thank you Nancy. Uh Ben I'll I'll I'll read the question again. Would you say
that the change to a council manager form of government successfully resolved the issues that you had been experienced under the previous form of government? I'm going to say I'm going to say yes. But you know, one of the things that um
you know, you still have to elect >> reasonable people that are going to be reasonable and we have that. Um we don't always agree on everything, but you know, it's no form of government, a better or rather a better form of government I think totally helps. You
know, we have clear lines of communication. We saw that problem that Nancy mentioned earlier, which was really a chronic problem where there was a lot of meddling by seven council members and the mayor and against each other there was like these weird gains of power and weird stuff going on for
quite a long time. And um we didn't have that on the board of education. You may have heard earlier, I served on the board of education for 19 years and um you know it was very obvious that that was happening and so um you know it took a toll on the employees and the town. Um
it really did. And so I we have you know now that the manager really responds to the mayor and the deputy mayor. They do like when we do the evaluation we all comment on it and we do a written thing and then you know they the talk if you like is done by the mayor and the deputy
mayor with the manager you know directly and then the manager of course handles all the dayto-day. So, you know, the manager is tolerant of me calling the head of the public works department and saying, you know, you know, a constituent needs this, but I I had to be careful and, you know, in some towns sometimes council members are told not
to do that. Um, you know, and I'm mindful of, you know, being very careful with, you know, my position and understanding that I really am supposed to go through the manager for most things. And so, um, that's what I would add to what Nancy
said. I think she covered it well. Well, the answer is I would say yes, >> but it's not a miracle. >> Little little question. When you were on the BOE uh in Redbank, was that nonpartisan elections? >> Yeah, it was nonpartisan. Um Okay. >> And we we did well, I think.
>> Good. All right. Uh Nancy, you're up again. >> Okay. >> All right. Uh can you describe the working relationship between the council and the manager? >> Yes. Um the council basically goes directly to the manager um if they you
know when they encounter day-to-day issues or when we have ideas of things that we would like to consider for legislation like does it you know it's sort of like testing the water is this something that would make sense um I would say that we have a very good
working relationship with our our particular manager and it works very well um sometimes we do talk directly to department heads, but one thing like I do is I CC the manager. I make him aware so he always knows, you know, like what
we're doing if we're talking to department heads and um I think that is critical. So um we make sure that there's clear communication and uh of what we're doing and like on our projects and stuff. So it's uh it's a
good thing. Yeah. And >> great. >> Yeah. Ben, what else can you say about our manager? Thank you. Uh Ben, can you describe the working relationship between the council and the manager? >> I think I think Nancy covered it covered it well. You know, they can cut the
manager has the power to cut us off. Like if we are inappropriate in some way, and I don't mean it like in a toxic kind of way, but um you know, the manager in our form can kind of say, "Ben, I can't have you, you know, haggling with uh you know, our this team all the time. You got to just do
everything through me." >> Yeah. And um so you know and I think that that's good because you really don't want to have you know the seven council members telling people how to do their jobs. >> Great. Thank you. I'm going to turn the uh questions over to Dr. Khan now. Uh
Dr. Khan >> um Nancy and Ben, thank you so much for joining us. Um I know it was very short notice and I also know that you had a council meeting earlier this evening. So >> can I pause on that just for a second because I thought I heard that earlier. Mhm.
>> Are you to tell me that you had a council meeting and was able to show up at 8:00 here? >> Yeah. >> That's one of the things that has changed in our former government because our council meetings used to go on for hours on end and it ran like a tel
nolla. I kid you not, previously. And um now we were done. >> We don't know what that's like really. I mean, >> right. We were done at uh what time were we done? Like 7:20 tonight. Yeah. >> What time did it start? >> 3:00 in the afternoon. >> 6:30. >> 6:30. And we finished at 7:20. Went
through the whole agenda. >> I know. >> Let's take their report. >> Sorry. Go ahead. >> So, my question, >> yes, >> my questions are mainly going to focus on um the directly elected mayor. So, um, just for the benefit of those
watching at home, um, Red Bank has a 7erson council manager with a directly elected mayor, nonpartisan elections, staggered elections every two years. Um, am I missing anything else? >> Runoffs. We have runoffs. >> Okay, you do have runoffs. We can get to
those a little later. Um, in Melbourne, our mayor is currently selected internally by the township committee from among its five members, and that happens every year. Um, can you describe election dynamics as it pertains to the mayor and the council? And specifically, can you talk to whether mayoral
candidates form slates with council candidates? >> Um, sure. Um, with our former government, our mayor gets a vote uh on regular council issues compared to our previous former government where the
mayor was only able to break a tie. Um our mayor um mayoral candidates form council candidates with slates. That's what we did in our reset election when our mayor was running. So we had formed one slate and there was another slate that was
formed mayoral candidate with council members and then there was one independent. So yes that that worked very well uh for all of us. So, it was easy in the sense that we could say, well, yes, on your ballot you can choose whoever you want and pick and choose,
but you know, if you want to choose a whole slate, we're all here and we're all pretty much aligned in our views for the town, views for the future of our town. Yes. >> Um, Ben, did you have anything to add to that? >> Well, you know, obviously people can
also pick and choose between the slates. I mean, a lot of voters, you know, say, "Well, I don't like Ben, but I'll vote for, you know, Nancy and this person on the other ticket, and maybe I'll vote for the independent." >> And, you know, I mean, one of the reasons, of course, there's slates, by
the way, is not, you know, it's also cost. I mean, running for office is shock. I mean, I'm in a little town, 13,000, maybe 4,000 registered voters, you know, one mailing is like eight or $9,000, you know. So, you know, the thought of I mean, I I would personally
avoid try to avoid running u personally because Amy and I don't have the resources to fund our own campaign and you know, when you work together, you know, you help solve some of those problems. Now, we of course that was in our reset election where all seven people were running and it happened that
the slate that Nancy and I were on with the mayor won, but we had a very competitive, expensive election. um you know a lot of drama, a lot of mailings and outside accusations. Uh although I think most of us we seem to all be getting along now um you know we did run
unopposed you know in this last cycle um you know but there's grumbling about things of course and I you know we we all make mistakes too. So um and it's tough right now in New Jersey on many levels you know taxes and insurance whatever you want to say. So I think um
you know I think that that's you know you see you're talking about the political dynamics. Now I I am still a Democratic committee member but we didn't endorse candidates um and there was uh you know a mix of different parties running you know people with
different affiliations and so uh and that's that's nice uh I think that that can happen. Did can you just repeat you did not endorse candidates? >> Uh the the Democratic party did not. No, we did not. Um um it h I you know some
of us are committee members and we're serving on the council, but the party did not officially make an endorsement. Now I don't I'm not the lawyer. I'm not a lawyer. I don't know if it's legal or not, but the the Democratic party did not. >> It is legal. So even in a nonpartisan election, >> he is a lawyer. um although not not
practicing election law but I I I happened to just look it up. Um >> I know >> we decided to keep it separate. >> So that's what I was going to say. Was it a conscious decision from from your uh local Democratic party not to endorse?
>> Yes. So, so, >> so it's interesting because in theory you can have a nonpartisan ballot, but arguably have a partisan election even in in a municipality as nonpartisan. It's more accurate to call something
nonpartisan ballots than necessarily elections because elections, and this is kind of your question, is that you might have a nonpartisan ballot in a m municipality, but depending on the decisions of the local parties, it
could turn it still into a partisan election. If if if a party decides to >> I can even change that a little bit. You could have two endorsed candidates running for a single seat, both endorsed by one party, right? You could have
three people running for a directly elected mayor. >> The Democratic committee endorses two of those three. >> Yeah. >> And maybe the third is just unendorsed, right? So, you could have all sorts of different >> iterations. Yeah. Uh Ben,
>> I have to tell you that one of the things I really loved about this process, and I'm I'm a door knocker, >> you know. Um I love knocking on all doors. You know, it used to be if you ran for office in the artisan bank, the Democrats kind of knocked on the Democratic doors and maybe the unaffiliated doors and then the
Republicans would knock on the Republican doors and maybe the unaffiliated doors. But I I love that, you know, we won with a lot of Republican votes as well as unaffiliated votes, you know, and um you know, I think that's a great thing. I mean, most issues in towns are potholes, recycling,
taking care of facilities, police, you know, >> and um and we actually had the opportunity to revisit the decision of whether or not to go partisan or nonpartisan. We could have we had enough time on the clock where when our team
won majority, we could have changed the course of our charter study and kept partisan elections in, but we chose not to because it the town was really done with this party fighting thing. >> I think that's fair, Nancy. I don't know if you wanted to add anything to that.
>> No, I think you said that very well. >> Um, so let's focus on the directly elected mayor position now. So, in practical day-to-day terms, what does the directly elected mayor actually do differently from council members, if anything? >> Um, he signs all the paperwork for the
burough. He's the figurehead and um he sets the agenda meetings where for mayor, you know, for council meetings and um whatever else is in the state statute that the mayor does. He also because he is a figurehead he also
attends meetings and with people who are or partnerships of people who want to do business in Redbank or they have ideas for Redbank. So he's he is the lead and people go to him. Um, one thing our uh that we introduced with um when we all
got elected is that we have mayor hours on a on Monday from 4:00 to 6 where anybody can drop in or you can go in by appointment and then council hours which is on Wednesday. Ben and I generally handle the day hours uh between 10 and 12 and then the evening hours are by
appointment and that's another set of council members that would tend to go to that. So yeah, it's uh the figurehead role. Um he receives the reports from committees. He signs all the essential paperwork, you know, for bonds and um
other types of uh proclamations, of course. And of course, one of the nice perks is he gets to marry people. >> That's true. >> Uh Ben, did you have anything to add to that? Yeah, I I I like that it's really
kind of the mayor is sort of the chairman or the chairwoman of the board. In our case, it's the chairman. You know, mayor has real power in this form of government, but is nonabsolute. Like one of the other forms that we were looking at as a charter study was the you know strong mayor exe and we have a
couple of towns with that >> but the mayor under the may the strong mayor system is really strong you know and I've been I you know I've been to those meetings where you know the council sort of stands there and can't stop whatever the mayor wants to do >> and I didn't I I really didn't want that and I fought hard for this which I think
is a reasonable compromise. It's actually stronger than the mayor system. And we red bank had a weak system where the mayor didn't even vote unless it was a tie and was uh not just was basically just a spokesperson and didn't have much power. And this system the mayor you
know to to a degree controls the agenda although you know I certainly can make a motion and add something to the agenda. >> Um you know and uh the mayor is our leader as Nancy said figurehead like you know when there's a picture that needs to be taken. the mayor represents us. The mayor, you know, and all everybody
always knows who the mayor is. So, that's a good thing and a bad thing. Um, but we as a group really have make decisions. Um, and I like that it's, you know, a seven people deliberating. Um, you know, obviously decisions are also
sometimes made in closed door when it's legal stuff or property acquisition and, you know, the various exceptions to the, you know, to the open public meeting act. Uh so you know and then of course there's the public comments and we have commentary at the the various uh you
know council meetings. So anyway so it's kind of to me the mayor in this form of government is sort of the chairman of the board. >> Um but doesn't always get their way. >> True. One thing I also want to add is uh in practice what I have observed is that
developers who want to bring housing into Redbank they will meet informally with the mayor and um you know and then the mayor can say they're like well we want to build some condos and he will you know believe first thing he'll say are these 100% affordable count
affordable condos because you know that's just basically how we are. we are very strong advocates for affordable housing here because um New Jersey is just a very expensive state at the time. So, you know, there those are some of the back the the private meetings that
happen and that's where it's very beneficial. People know who to talk to about things like that or if it you know if it's worth to open up um um housing for neurody divergent people that's something that's very unique that is
underway in Redbank. So, you know, they have the conversation with the mayor. What do you think about this idea? And this is where we'll place it. And, you know, we go back and they'll go back and forth and have that conversation. And then, you know, he will share all of that with us when we have our meetings.
So, you know, we are aware of what's going on. It's not too much going on behind closed doors >> and we do pick the deputy mayor. Yes. So, >> we among the we vote among ourselves for the deputy mayor and that's done.
Um, which boards and commissions require mayoral appointment versus a simple majority of the council? >> Uh, the land use boards, planning and zoning, the library board of trustees, um, the housing authority
and the rest are usually mayor with uh, mayor and counsel. And because we are council members are liaison to uh some of the the volunteer uh commissions and committees, we can make suggestions as to who we would like
to see on there that is consistent with the vision that we have for town. >> Now those are just suggestions the mayor could choose. Um, no, not on the not on the uh like the committees, you know, like parks and rec committee, but we
generally come to an agreement. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Did I say that right, Ben? >> Yes. >> Yeah. There there's some appointments that the council has to do as a entirely. There are some I don't remember which. This is another one, but that you're going to pay a lawyer for. There's some statute stuff.
>> Um there's some things that the mayor has appointments on. um you know so uh yeah I'm not sure what you can control in the form you know the Faulner government kind of has these sort of templates for government >> so uh we had to kind of live within that
context >> um do residents relate to the mayor as fundamentally different from the council um someone they hold to a higher or a different standard than the other six council members >> I think they hold us all to the same standard But they do recognize the mayor
is the lead. >> Thank you. >> Does that make sense? Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, obviously the mayor has to be more careful because the mayor is the spokesperson for the town. So, like, you know, sometimes our mayor gets a little trouble because he's got a little sense of humor and you know, you have to be
careful on DAS with the sense of humor. Yeah. >> Um, so the reason we're delving so deep into this is last week when we heard from the mayor of Timber, mayor of Brona, Christopher Timber, um, where the council selects the mayor, he told us he
sees real value in the council always speaking with one voice on who leads it. Now, it seems like, you know, the council, at least from what I've heard so far, it seems like the council and the mayor are relatively in harmony. Um, you know, I guess our worry as charter study
commissioners is wondering for the case where there might be disunityity between the mayor and the council and that, you know, the mayor starts saying things, you know, as the spokesperson that may not be sort of what is agreed upon by the majority of the council. Do you have thoughts on that? I know it might not be
directly relevant to what you're going through at the moment. It's not directly relevant to what we're going through at the moment, but I know generally if the mayor is saying something that's very different than what the other council members were because again policy and legislation
requires seven votes. So, you know, if he's bringing some for some legislation that the council is not really keen on that, you know, it wouldn't pass. So I think there's like a checks and balances
there a little bit. Ben >> Nancy put that well. There is checks and balances in this form. I mean you know we were elected together so we generally agree on on everything. Um but there are exceptions and I have been in meetings where this you know that's what happened
in Redbank for a long time. you you know I if the mayor were to be um if we had a toxic relationship uh it would be difficult. I mean I don't think there's any question about it. But the mayor to get anything done and to pass a budget
uh he needs was it four votes in our with the seven he needs four votes. >> So you're going to have to the mayor is really required to get a coalition uh of of us to support you know something if the mayor wants to get something done. I guess, you know,
if the mayor decides to get up there and just be uh ridiculous, uh, you know, it's a free country and even mayors can be ridiculous. Um, so, you know, we can't necessarily muzzle that. But I would say that, you know, I certainly would object at the meetings,
you know, to uh inappropriate or ridiculous commentary. And, you know, it would probably lead to a messy next election cycle, I would imagine. You know, as I said earlier, one of the things I I mean, I'm so honored to have been on the the charter study commission, and I think we've done great
things, but you still have to elect competent people. You know, a good form of government helps, but you know, you can have a great government if everybody's getting along and getting things done, even if it's an obsolete and, you know, broken system. Um but it
helps totally I think to have you know at least a structure and rules and lines of communication and and walls >> you know um you know if the mayor became impossible you know and this happens in towns you know you guys read it too you know there
are towns I'm not going to mention the names where it's war and it's hard to get things done and people quit and you know the mayor doesn't get budgets passed and state sometimes the state has to intervene. Yes, you're >> absolutely correct.
>> When something goes wrong in Redbank, for example, a project failing or a decision backfiring, if it if it has happened in the last, you know, since you had charter change, who does the public hold account, >> manager?
>> Yeah. Uh actually all of us um they would they the general the residents will say oh mayor and council did this right so they kind of hold all of us accountable but if it's a project in day-to-day you know
it's really the manager and because in our former govern government we can terminate the manager with a simple majority with due cause of course I we haven't come across that yet But we also, you know, our manager also sees as
part of his mission is to carry our vision and prevent all of us from looking bad. So we haven't really encountered that. >> Thank you. >> Ah, I can do a little disagreement with Nancy here though. So it point >> So we unfortunately I think fortunately
actually we could just dismiss the manager even without good cause. We the manager works at our at our pleasure and that's important you know and you know look if you have if you elect a bunch of crazy people I mean a good manager is probably going to go
>> so um but you know uh you know the mayor there's no there's no tenure for our manager in this system. You the the manager works at our pleasure and that's an important thing. So you really are that board of directors when in this form of government. Um,
I just wanted to add that. >> Thank you. >> Is that Do you see that as a potential danger too? Because if you get uh, you know, you guys all get along and then seem fairly rational. If you get a a different group in that's not as
rational and and you know then you might have a great manager or or majority might think it's great manager and you have a small contingent that can come in and just get rid of the person >> you want me >> yeah they need to get the four votes but
look it happens it happens on boards of educations too by the way >> it's always better I think somebody was mentioning it's always better >> you know to have public unity if at all possible but you can't do that at any price. I mean, if you know, if you felt that there was really bad things
happening, I would think that, you know, you guys would stand up. Um, you wouldn't probably be on a charter study commission if you weren't uh interested in good, you know, and you're going to have times, I guess, in in the history of all towns where you're going to have, you know, disagreement up here. And it
will, you know, and good managers and good superintendants, by the way, because remember I was on the school board, will leave a dysfunctional town. And this my town had that problem. We were having a hard time hiring competent, experienced people because of
a lot of our own infighting. So, you know, you really you really hope that you get the people who get elected can somehow find a way to work with each other. It's not always possible. You we all we're all humans. We know some people just are impossible. And you just
have to try to work around it as best as you can. I see it happen in towns and boards of education. Um, you know, and it's messy. And I guess that's why I'm paid my $3,200 a year if this comes up. You have to earn you earn your money.
>> Well, we happen to have a phenomenal uh business administrator. But but with that, uh, Councilman uh, uh, Corey Bill, the mission of Cy. >> Hey, great. >> Hi, Nancy. Good to see you again. >> Yeah,
>> we spoke a few weeks ago. Um, and Ben, uh, thanks for entertaining my prior, uh, questions and comments. Um, correct me if I'm wrong, you Redbank was seven members on the committee before you guys change, so you stuck with it. In the
report, um, it it it appears that there was some discussion about changing size, but there was some concern over if you if you reduce size, you would reduce potentially diversity of thought and ideas and things like that. Could you um maybe give examples where you saw the
seven person committee or council whatever we're going to have um size as particularly relevant to a to a decision making? >> Sure. It depends on the size of your town. Um we're a town with a population of 14 people. We've had seven members.
Um I guess >> 14,000 >> I'm sorry, what did I say? Whatever. Yeah, 14,000. >> Yeah. See, that's 8 8:00's catching me. Uh 14,000 people. That's our our population. We had seven members on council before. If we went down to five,
there's going to be less less diversity of thought. Now, one and if we went to nine, which is the other option, then that's um essentially you run into the potential for more conflict. One thing that we do have is when we have council
committees which are ad hoc in our case uh set by the manager to work on different projects he uh he or she would have the benefit of getting the input from three different council people um while on the project which I think it's
you know it's a good balance for him or her. So I think that's good as opposed to say if you had a council of five then it's you know then you have only two people. So that extra third
person really does help. >> And I think Nancy answered Nancy answered that very well. I mean, you always the bigger the pool, the more likely it is that you're going to get somebody who's impossible. But the bigger the pool also, the more likely it is you'll hopefully have at least four
sane people on your governing body. >> Yeah, there it is. He said it. >> And and you said because this was a question I was going to ask, the subcommittees are formed uh by the manager ad hoc. >> Yeah, ad hoc. Um there we used to have standing committees but
when we changed our former government and I looked into into it because we had to change our administrative code I was like you know there was like a DPU committee a police committee um parks and wreck and we didn't need that
because the manager is taking care of all of that. So he sets it up, our manager, so he sets it up such that we have a budget committee and it's three people and they go over the budget and we can put our input in it as needed.
There's one for the the Department of Public Works because they're working on um building a new building there, Marine Park. It's a state-of-the-art ADA accessible playground that's going on. There's a committee for that. So that's
how things are working for us now. >> And you said sorry and and some of the subcommittees are just three members. >> Yeah. >> Um do you find that these subcommittees are are still productive in in relaying information to the rest of the council
and keeping the council informed? >> Yeah, they give reports at our council meetings. I mean, yeah. Okay. I was going to, but that seems clear. Okay. So, the mayor of Verona at our last meeting told us he was concerned that seven members takes
or makes management a little bit harder with more direction going to the manager and additional difficulty in keeping everyone aligned. How do you respond to that from your experience? >> Um, in our case,
we are pretty much aligned all of us on our values. So it's not that it's not that much and I don't think the manager and we have our strengths in different areas. For example, um Dr. Jon is a um
nurse practitioner and she has a lot of experience with health and wellness. So she will, you know, come with issues that are relative to health and or comes with that perspective. Um Ben has a lot of experience with government and
education. He brings that perspective. Um we have I'm like safe streets can make clean streets. So I come with things from that perspective and also for environmentalists environmentalists. Uh four of our council members were on environmental commissions at some point
around. So you know we all have we're all aligned in that. And our newest council member is um he's a pedestrian advocate. So we don't really run into too many issues and we can talk with
without breaking OPMA a total of three people. So you know if he picks someone we can ask bounce questions off with two other people and then we report it back to the manager. And to to the extent you know, is that generally how the manager
forms committees is based on his perceived or or known um expertise or interests of of council members? >> Yes, I would say. Sir, >> because one of the things I was going to ask is sort of the time commitment that you guys put forth as council members
and and what I was thinking is that if if you have ad hoc subcommittees, it's it's potential that some council members might be busier and committing more time than others. So, so I guess it it got me thinking of h how does the manager select and
>> to the extent that you've seen is there is there any discrepancy in the amount of time certain council members are putting in and then just generally overall how much time do you guys feel that you spend on council work? >> Um I think it depends on the council member um and how much they're willing
to do a lot of research on various projects that they they have. Uh for example, Dr. Janon um is on the mayor's wellness committee and you know they meet every week that's a very frequent you know time period and they put forth
events uh that are beneficial to the members of the town so that's like one um Ben and I like do council hours so we're always connecting with the residents in a different way so it's just what you have time to give and um
how much you want to get into Ben. >> Okay. So, I I'm actually, if you don't mind, I'm going to answer your initial question first, which was, you know, is it a lot more work to deal with seven people as opposed to five? I'm probably oversimplifying the the the comment you
were paraphrasing earlier. Um, and I would say yes, of course, it is. It's a little bit more work, but I think that um, you know, a manager has to be answerable to people. And I and I think that you know I get very good responses like I try not to uh take advantage
because I but I'll I'll send a text or I'll email or if I necessarily I make a phone call and I I'm just try to be mindful uh that I impact also the all the other duties that the manager has. Um you know I think five is pretty I mean I don't know how the size of Mil
burn is but I think seven's a good number and then there's I've been in towns where there's nine. Um, so I think seven has worked work works well and I I think the manager manages his time well with us. Um, of course you're going to hire I mean our first big test really
was going through the process of hiring a manager, you know, and again you're a board of directors and you interview people and you make a list and you you know you go through and you prioritize what's important and you know and not every candidate is going to meet everything and you got also you know deal with the political strings that are
being pulled and all those things. So um you know I think uh Nancy um you know the rest of that I don't remember that you started getting in the conversation after that but I wanted to answer your initial question. Did I I hope that's helpful. >> Yeah I appreciate >> and oh yeah you also asked about you
know could the man could it be abused you know can the the threat of throwing you know firing somebody? Sure. Of course. I mean if you elect four angry council members who don't like the manager is a good bet there's going to be a change I think. you know, uh, and
so, uh, you know, as a board of ed, you know, it's one of the things that prepared me well for this actually is being on a board of ed. This form of government is very similar to a board of ed. Not exactly the same, but you know, the superintendent, you know, was the chief executive of the school district and we would do evaluations and it's one
of the reasons this all kind of jumped out at me. You know, our schools came a long way in the 19 years that I was on there. And, um, you know, we were doing very well and then our municipal government seemed to be kind of the mess. So um you know the you know yes you want to have a good manager feel
secure absolutely uh if at all possible but you got to make sure reasonable people get elected but at the same time I like the freedom of you know you have a manager it's sometimes people have to go you know and you you have that ability to make that change if you need to also
>> uh I would just like to add to that uh we're also mindful of our manager's time because you know he has a packed day and So, um, you know, we do respect that. And if he's away, you know, he has now gotten used to just saying, you know, like,
hey, I'm taking, you know, Thursday and Friday off, you know, for the for a long weekend. So, he lets us know so we don't we know not to text him during that time. And then if we have a list of issues, um, what I have done, uh, is I would take him out to lunch and say,
"Okay, here's my list." I give him the list beforehand and then you know we can go through it in an hour. So that's how we're spending our time with him without taking too much of his time. >> Thank so so >> or as I tell him here's my list. It's my
love language to you. >> Clearly you know his love language is probably food if you're taking him out to lunch. That's smart far. Um, but as far as the subcommittees go, have you experienced, I know it's it's a relatively short period, instances where
there were council members who wanted to participate in a subcommittee and weren't either selected or initially selected. How was that resolved? And the converse to that um where there the the manager said, "Hey, I'd like you to serve on this sub subcommittee." And
people said, "Hey, I don't either have the time or interest or something like that." H how is that um um unfolding? >> Right. We've run into that where you know due to uh work constraints because again we're not paid very big bucks so
we have day jobs and uh where we try to do things that are manageable with within that council member's time but if they can't they would respectfully decline to be on a particular committee and uh that's how it works. Uh most
recently, um I was on the budget committee last year and I got put on this year, but we had a new council member come in and you know, I think it was very important that that new council member learn how government cheese is made and so I stepped away from the
committee so that he could be on. So you know we do things that way and we you know there's a lot of collaboration again without violation of OPMA but there is a lot of collaboration that happens. >> Thank you. I'll just add to that that it, you know,
we I mean, obviously the mayor and the deputy mayor and we all know each other and we have our strengths and weaknesses and it hasn't been I mean we have a little bit of you know I think there's a little bit sometimes there's been a little bit of stress about who's on what because you know sometimes somebody hasn't but it it has worked out but I
think it's true in all of our lives somebody wants to do something and you know we also um you know you can change just like Nancy talked about um you know if you have like four people who want to be on a budget committee with the manager of the initial budget committee. That's a problem because it is a form.
Um we do have a meeting a big meeting on the budget where everybody can go because we advertise it. Um but so far I think pretty much what Nancy said was you know like if I know somebody wants to be on the I'm happen to be on the budget committee you know. Um I also uh I think the manager uses that as a
management tool also to sort of gauge you know the things that the manager wants to move forward. You know Ben what is you know what does Ben think of this? There's two Ben's on the committee. What do you think of this Christina? And uh so it's a tool for the manager and I'm pretty sure I'm not in the room but I think the manager basically talks to the
mayor and the deputy manager and they then you know we get a phone call or a text or an email sort of saying hey Ben would you be willing to serve on this and willing to do that and like I'm also on a park committee that you know was one of our big projects Marine Park. >> Anyway, I just thought I'd add that to
what Nancy said. >> No that was illustrative so thank you. I am now going to pass the baton over to chairperson chairperson Parker Lens right next to me so that she can >> we can't get that right. You're the
chairperson. >> Commissioner >> just a little trucker look over. >> I guess it got in my head over here start talking. >> I'm just a commissioner. >> Um hello thank you for joining us. um
very informative so far. Um I would like to turn uh the discussion more to um uh nonpartisan elections versus partisan elections and slate dynamics. >> So I don't know if you know that Milbour
has currently partisan local elections. >> Um Redbank previously had partisan elections and moved to nonpartisan obviously. So for the residents watching um what does that mean? How campaigns work? how they are funded and how candidates reach voters and happy to
repeat each part necessary. >> Um, sure I can start with that. >> Uh, our campaigns what? Well, we've only had two elections so far to go by since we moved to nonpartisan, but before we
had partisan elections with the party line system. And again, it was, you know, whoever was selected to run on uh by their particular party. That's how they ran they ran. And we were Redbank is a town that's 2 to1 Democrat. So,
usually it was a Democratic candidate that got selected. uh when we ran for the uh when uh our first election and of course our second election we decided to run as slates there is an issue of cost
again we knew each other we all of us have served in some volunteer committee so you know there was a natural affinity there and uh that helped and um how the
campaigns are funded well we're all Democrats. So, you know, we to get, you know, we'd go and host events and we would get donations as well as um endorsements. We got endorsements from a
League of Conservation Voters and um this Blask around there were a couple of endorsements as well from uh Clean Water Action if I'm not mistaken, Ben. And um so essentially that and Ben is more of a
campaign guy. So he will give you you know how the cheese is actually made there on the campaign side. And how do candidates reach vote reach voters? Oh, one cool thing is when you were getting signatures to get on the ballot, one thing that worked when you're getting on a slate is you can carry the paperwork
for everyone on your slate. So you could talk to one voter and get signatures. So it was faster to get the signatures that are required. And again, also in a nonpartisan election, it doesn't matter their party affiliation, so you have the whole town to reach. Um, how do
candidates reach voters? We've done Tik Toks, YouTubetubes, and our most effective way because we're only a 1.7 square mile town is by knocking on doors. And it helped us were running as a slate in that respect because you know there was always somebody going out and
that made a huge difference and I defer to Ben >> Duran extraordinaire. >> Oh well let me say I I don't like kind of the New Jersey tradition of party bosses you know and it's one of the you know and
I'm I was part of that kind of you know I'm not I wasn't a Democratic committee member back when we started fighting with each other. I'm talking about Democrats. Um that there was a lot of drama and infighting and it had gone on for a while and you know sort of secret plots to push somebody out that wasn't liked
and it was just this sort of very strange um you know party apparatus here that you know sometimes good things happen sometimes didn't good things didn't happen. I'm very glad that that's gone because it was also completely non-transparent. You know, you know, all
of a sudden there was committee there were there was a candidate slate that ran for Democrats and Republicans. No one knew where they came from. Sometimes they lived in town for a year maybe, you know, and so that was quite bizarre over the years, you know, and so uh I'm glad
that's really kind of gone. I think that having a petition system which has its own problems, but it's, you know, I don't how many do we need? 50 60 signatures Nancy each. I don't remember. It's not >> depends on every election. Yeah. >> Right. Um there's a formula there's a state formula but anybody can run the
you know I think that slates are going to happen because um cost elections and people seem to like kind of a slate. I guess it makes it easier sort of a vision you know like you're marketing really. you know, we want, you know, whatever it is, lower taxes or we want
nonpartisan elections and uh but you don't have to do it that way. Um, you know, just it seems that uh, you know, in my case, I really don't have the money to self-fund, you know, I think we spent 80,000 in that reset election and our opponents spent 110,000. That's a
lot of money. >> 710. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, that's a lot of money. And then we had an unoff, you know, somebody who was not in either running. Actually, it was funny. Her her place was right in the middle on the ballot. It just ironically turned it because they had to do a random drawing. So, she was right
in the middle and then we had the two slates on either side. And so, that's how it went. But towns have different dynamics with this. I would just rely just on us. But I think because of the the the very expensive process, you and also another problem with elections, and this is true whether you're running
parts or nonpartisan, you got to do really good recordkeeping. You have to have a treasurer who knows what they're doing, files all these crazy things at the right time or the state's gonna, you know, this is true on boards of ed, too, by the way. You know, you really, if you spend any money at all, you know, you
really have to have that lawyer. There he is. I'm pointing at you. Uh, you have to have that lawyer who knows what they're doing kind of monitoring your finances. Now, I believe and you know, if you don't spend any money, it's relatively safe. But if you raise any money um you have to you know you know
every $100 plus donation you have to have account and it's it's a big it's a lot of work >> and it's reported in EL so it's open to the public >> right so uh so that's it you know it's kind of it's really marketing I think you have a slate in a competitive election running together kind of makes
sense if at all possible although some towns don't have it it's funny you know I I do follow other towns and they have uh similar forms of government and sometimes it's you know five different people running their own campaigns, but by and large, I think tickets seem to be the way most campaigns seem to be going.
Uh, and of course, if you're a partisan, you're running a ticket also. I mean, the Democratic team is here and the Republican team is there. And where where's that independent candidate again? Let's go find them. Oh, they're there. They are down there and by the North Pole. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, thank you for that. Um, this
>> I don't know if that answered your question. >> Yes, this dives a little bit deeper, I think. Um, regarding the Red Bank's 2023 election, um, you started to you did talk about how slates were or were organized, but we just wanted to dive a little deeper how slates were organized
that election and how they that carried over >> into how the council governs. >> Yes, I can I can answer that. And I'm going to be very truthful. There was a lot of um, >> Were you not being truthful on your all your
>> Oh, no. I've been truthful. No, I'm going to tell it to you very straight. >> They busted you. They busted you. >> I know. There was so much dysfunction. >> Just for the record, Nancy. >> I know. No, there was so much dysfunction in Redbank's government at
the time. Um and um when we were uh we formed our slate and we were running, we knew we had to hit hard, hit fast, and go in. And there were two council people that were running of the from the the existing council members at the time
that were part of the team of dysfunction for one of a better word. It was really bad. And in turn their their um they had shadow um how do I describe the former party chair was aligning getting people
to run against us and that's basically what happened. So it was it became of do you want to have a new vision or here are these guys with the old vision. I think that's that's what happened and then we have a perennial candidate who runs as an independent and that person
was in the middle. So um that that happened um it was very interesting election uh with the dynamics between our side and their side. Um and one of the guys who was running for mayor at
the time from the other slate, he was president uh who is president sorry of the hospital that is the largest employer in town and with whom at the time we had open lawsuits. So you know it was like there was a major conflict
of interest there and you know we had to address it which we did with a Dr. Seuss book. So um the Dr. 's little pamphlet and I think um that's um that's what happened. So um
how that carried over into how the council governs I would say that on the other side there are people with a lot of egos and they wanted what for themselves and I could say that our council does not have egos. We're just
focused on what's good for the town and I think people were able to see through that when it came time when election time came around. Ben, have at it. >> I don't know that I mean Nancy, you put it so well. I I you're always going to
be my spokesperson for sure. Um uh yeah, it was a messy election. Um, and there was a lot of bad blood from all the primary fighting that the Democrats we had among ourselves and the Republicans jumped in and it was it was a circus. Um, and we survived it. I
think Nancy, um, you know, I mean, certainly put our point of view there. Um, and obviously the voters made a decision. We won, you know, comfortably. Um, and we were outspent. So, um, that was great. And then we ran on oppose. the four of us who ran in
this that two and a half years election ran on the post and that's >> you know you know of course there's grumbling you know and and and you know there's going to be people no matter what you do who are angry and upset you even if you do the things they ask they're still angry and upset that's the funny part but um
>> you know and also you make mistakes you're human you can't help it you're going to do things you're going to disappoint people you're going to forget to fix that street light you know that's in front of somebody's house who's been telling you for four years they want that street light fixed and uh so I'm never going to vote for you ever again, Ben, because you never fixed the street
light. And you know, and I I own that. I own that. So, um, >> Ben, do you have any hypothesis as to why? Because it's very interesting that you would have such a contentious election and from what it sounds like a lot of consternation and issues before
the election for years and yet all of a sudden you changed the form of government. Do you attribute any of the what seems like a calm after that storm to the new form of government? meaning you had unopposed elections after having such issues beforehand and and and
intense battles. Do you think >> I think I can answer it. I think that we were I think actually that number one is that we were exhausted. I'd like to give us all credit for being like the brilliant council and mayor and of course we are Nancy. But I think the town is really exhausted from having you
know a blood sport election. It was really, you know, a lot of unpleasant things and um yeah, and in some ways the the primary for me, speaking for myself, the primary is worse because it's your friends, you know, and it's also this is
where a small town is a disadvantage. you know everybody and everybody knows your business and it's not even personal, you know, it's it's all very personal and it's you go to the supermarket and the guy yells at you in front of the Captain Crunch at the in the cereal aisle, >> you know, and so I mean that literally
happens, right? You know, so you know, in some ways small town is harder than if you were in a Newark where, you know, you don't really know that many people, you know, you know, you run into people you know all the time and a lot of them are your friends and you go to school, your kids go to their schools with them, you know.
So um anyway, so I think exhaustion and I think that we are for the most part keeping our promises. We we ran with as Nancy said with the vision, you know, we're addressing a lot of the things. Um we we made some mistakes. Um but I think that people have looked at the overall
thing and um I guess we probably got it right maybe 80 90% of the time. And um also even when we were running unopposed, you know, at first we didn't know we were going to run opposed because you file, you know, we start campaigning, you know, we start talking to people, we start doing little events,
we pull up little videos, um we start answering questions, um you know, and also the process of getting petitions of course is a way of organizing. You know, you need to get that many signatures. you're going to the people, you know, and getting signatures and they're asking questions and sometimes it's not always easy to
get those signatures, you know, Ben, you said you're going to get that street light fixed. Um, you know, or whatever. And um, you know, you said you're going to lower taxes and my taxes are higher, you know, and then you got to give a reasonable answer. And then, you know, when you're talking oneonone, most people, I think, are reasonable. And
>> we never said we were lowering taxes. >> I know. I just pulled that out as general, you know. >> Right. >> Yeah. Any politician who says that I don't trust them because I've never seen taxes go down >> un the uh you know and so
>> it was an honor to run on a post actually but it was exhausting that because you had two we had that primary messy fight that was brutal and uh I think what triggered it I think somewhere in your com you asked what kind of triggered that there was it was infighting in the Democratic party that
sort of triggered this whole meltdown if you like you There was uh the chairman uh was asserting his power and he has a lot of power in local parties. Chairmans do Republicans and Democratic chairmans have a lot of power or chairwoman and they chair was pushing out some people
that he didn't like um for whatever reason. And so that led to sort of a you know a civil conflict among us and it didn't resolve the way the chairman at the time wanted to resolve but it did resolve. I don't know if that made any sense. Did I cover it, Nancy?
>> Um, yeah. At the time when we had partisan elections, you have a Democratic committee um who works with the chair at the local level to help pick the candidates that would get the nomination for the party line. And then when you have the party line system, you
know, if you're not selected, you're off in ballot Siberia. And uh that would happen a lot. So with the old infighting that came around, there was a three-step process. First was the charter commission to study the former
government. Then there was a change of the democratic party leadership where um someone got together and they ran a whole slate of Democratic party candidates which shocked the existing establishment. So basically it was a war between old guard and new guard and um
the new guard got the majority of the democratic seats which led to a lot of bitterness and also at that time there was a primary because the mayor was up and the existing mayor did not get
picked to get the Democratic party nomination and he said you know he didn't want to run um he didn't want to run against the guy that had been picked. So, there was some scrambling around and we got somebody who they got our current mayor. That's
how he got in. So, you know, deadline was 3:00, 2:30. He had all the signatures that same day. We recruited him, got him in, and he beat the Democratic incumbent, I mean the party
selected person for mayor. And so, it was an upset. So therefore all during that year there was just contention contention contention. So that's what happened. So then after the charter study commission passed in 23 what happened is that the old guard
still had a lot of um uh they had they were still very contentious and that's who they picked the other slate to run against us. So that's why our reset election was kind of crazy and you know we have local
hyper local news reporting so everyone in town was seeing everything that was going on and trust me they were pretty much exhausted by the time our recet election came around. Did I get that right then? >> Yes. >> Yeah. I'm getting exhausted listening to it was a mess and I'm glad it's glad
it's behind us. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So I I do not miss local partisan elections. I assure you. >> Well, thank you. But you you pre-answered question 20, so we're going to move on to uh >> the next one. Um roughly 43% of
Melbourne's registered voters are unaffiliated. Under our current system, any of them who wants to run a viable campaign essentially has to affiliate. Um, so they've got to pick the party and come out of the closet saying who they are or who they want to be a part of or
who they accidentally became part of, right? >> It's totally true >> because that the chair may not want you even though you are with that particular party, you might not get that. I mean, we we actually saw that with, you know, by accident um one year and it was just
a surprise and timing and whatever. So, um, has Redbank's nonpartisan structure changed who chooses to run? >> Yes, anybody can run. And again, it's up to the resident to do their research on their candidates and pick who would best
serve them. So, yes, >> I don't know. >> So, I mean, I would say that the answer is yes. But, you know, it turns out that the side that one, you know, we we're all happen to be Democrats. Um I think u you know so you
could I mean our critics would say you know it's not really you know they would say that's uh they wouldn't agree with that point of view necessarily. I would say though that you know in the last that reset election we certainly had a lot of variety there. Um people from
different parties were running. Um, and they could have run this time if they wanted to get the signatures and I thought we were going to be opposed but they you know for whatever reason I maybe it was the exhaustion. I don't know you know they didn't they didn't run anybody against us but you know there is no apparatus anymore which
because what you said earlier struck is what really bugged me. You had to kind of declare if you really wanted to be a viable candidate in town. No one would even be within close to winning an election if unless they were either Republican or a Democrat. I mean, running as an unaffiliated voter was
basically crazy. And I I just think that's wrong. Even and I say that as a as a Democratic committee member. I think that's wrong. And um I was I'm very happy that we kept our word, the Democratic Maybe that's one of the reasons we won. We kept our word and
followed through on making this promise that we made to voters that we were going to go for a nonpartisan form government. Like I said, we had the window where we could have put in a New Jersey fix in, you know, all of a sudden the the boat changes and we're going to go with partisan after
all because we controlled the party at that point. We could have kept the, you know, the Jersey, you know, the we could have kept control and when we won control of the Democratic party, we could have >> kept with the partisan option, but we chose not to. And I think that, you know, that was one of the good decisions
we made and I think the voters rewarded us for that. I hope that made some sense. It made sense. Thank you. That's the end of my portion. I'm going to turn it back to our chairman. >> All right. Uh we're in a part that we're closing up here. Um three years into the
new structure, what has worked better than you expected? >> Ben, you want to start us off on this one? >> Yeah, let him start. >> Ben, start us off. >> Now you're messing me up again. A good thing I didn't put on mute. There you go. >> Uh well, that's our report that we just
got from the manager. Um I I would say that kind of um what is the most uh well it's hard you know you got all my memories about that awful the awful elections and how awful it was. It was it took a toll on us, our community, you
know, that that that last mess of election and personal. I mean, there are people who are never going to be my friends again and never forgive me. Some neighbors and I love them and I'm I'm hoping that over time, you know, some of that uh you know, I think it's over time there's
some healing that's happening. But it was very hard. I um I I think I cried actually one of the at the charter study meetings. I did um because it was just it was really awful and um so it's wonderful that we don't have that. I mean, I, you know, make mistakes now and
and I, it is hard not pleasing everybody when you're the m, you know, when you're a council member, you can't please everybody and people, you know, and and it's all, it is upsetting sometimes when people that, you know, you disappoint people who believed in you and they think you betrayed them now because you, you know, when you're have to make
decisions, you have to make decisions and you really can't please everybody if you really want to do your job well. Um, you know, sometimes, you know, you do have to fire somebody or do something unpleasant and, uh, it's awful, you know. Um, but I am paid 3,000 a year.
>> So, I didn't expect it. >> You want to uh elaborate on that if you >> um, sure. I'm actually just I'll give you a year of highlights of what we've done. uh through our manager they established the department of recreation and human services and that was in our
management enhancement report from 2018. So that's something that our current manager was able to do. There's organization leadership and operation improvements. There's a now a deputy director of our DPU. People think that one thing that always happens is people
look at the population and they go, "Oh, Red Bank is a small town." But the reality is during the day because of the hospital and businesses we get up to 50,000 people and that's a lot to manage. So we hired um a deputy director. There's a shared services
agreement with our library. So we clarified our lines of communication and how we work with other organizations. We have um under redevelopment and economic investment. Our train station redevelopment plan is advanced.
um the DPU facility improvement, completion of the streetscape, we did safer crosswalks, we also received a lot of recognition. So there's mobility and national recognition for safe routes to school. We got our gold status again.
And uh also Redbeck was recognized as top 10 nationwide for a complete streets policy because we set that by ordinance and we have a complete and green streets committee that works um that meets regularly to go through the issues and keep things keep the communication in
and handle the issues. We did quick mini build projects and we Oh, yeah. We got some bike racks that we got from uh we got a quick grant to put in some bike racks um from the National Real Estate
Association because while they were not very happy with the Airbnb ordinance that we put in once we got elected, that was a lot better than what the previous council had installed. So, they said, "Hey, I have this grant for you." So, you know, that's a good way that we get money. and of course for capital
investment the marine park and uh redevelopment of housing. So you know we have a lot of uh we have community meetings there's um whole engagement and um the manager has also hired staff and
does a lot of forward- facing communication to the public. Um, an quick example is that our last snowstorm that we had, you know, we had the police going around putting uh flyers on the cars to get them off the street and
where they can park them. They were going around with bullhorns. They were getting text messages, emails, phone calls, and of course posted all over sub, you know, social media. So, you know, this town really has been doing a great job in communicating
issues to the residents. And I mean, I cited that one as an exception, but it goes on every day. You know, you find out what streets are closing, you know, when you're uh when there are any changes to garbage picks up and stuff. And um the cultural shift of the
employees, they no longer have PTSD. They actually are happy. They want to come to work. And you know, when you have a staff that's happy where they're working, they're performing well. And I would say that they're punching way above their wage. >> Ben,
>> thank you. Thank you. Um, >> I hope that wasn't too much. >> No, no, no, no. Ben started off. >> Ben's on mute. >> Oh, Ben, you're on mute. >> Ben, >> you're on mute. >> There you go. I mean, the nice thing is
we hired a manager because they were the most qualified individual that applied for the job as opposed to making a political decision really. I mean, we made a political decision in that we're making a bet that running our bureau well will pay off politically, you know,
and we really um and I'm I pro I shouldn't even say it, but I don't I don't believe the part the the manager shares our party affiliation. Actually, we hired No, he doesn't. The best >> qualified person to run our town. And that person, as you could tell from what
Nancy just said, I can't is really getting a lot done. And and we're doing our job in supervising and having input. And the managers are being creative and making suggestions and motivating our team and staff and there's proper evaluations going on. You know, in our
case in Redbank, it's kind of revolutionary. And so, um, you know, that's that to me is the most significant thing and I'm so grateful to be had a small part in that. >> Next, uh, what has been harder than you
expected? >> You and me or Nancy? >> Yeah, go ahead, Ben. >> Um, well, I think I answered that. I mean, the emotional impact really of people you love being angry >> at you and there's nothing you can say
to change it. I mean, you know, I I was uh probably involved in party politics for all my adult life here in town and and then I have friends, too. And then you know and you know people I grew up with and my kids grew up with that got furious and are furious about some
things and I I do my best and you know I apologize when I've made mistakes >> but I try to keep the mistakes to a minimum but um >> that you know it takes an emotional toll. There's no question. So I think that's my answer. That's the hardest part is the emotional toll of change and
uh and making decisions that are hard. >> Yes. Thank you. Um Nancy, if you could change one thing about how Red Bank uh designed its new government, what would it be?
>> Um I can't really think of anything. Um but going to the other question, what has been harder than you expected? I would say that making sure our ordinances align with the current form of government because we had to change our administrative code. But as we're
moving along um you know a couple years we do find some things that do need tweaking. So we we found that and um also informing letting residents really understand that as council members we only we don't get involved in day-to-day
and we focus on policy and legislation. But one thing that I do see that's very good coming out of our council hours is we're sort of like a traffic cop. redirect them where they can go to get the answers they need, but we can't do it for them. So, uh, that's,
um, what I would say. >> Thank you. All right, last question. Um, Ben, is there anything about Redbank's council manager form of government that we haven't touched upon and that you think our commission should be
considering? >> Anything about that? Um I think it's a very good form of government. It's probably overall the best form and um I in my previous life, you know, before I in my 20s, I was a reporter. So I I was exposed to a lot of different forms of
government and and I was a municipal reporter back when we had newspapers. Remember that? >> I used to work for a community newspaper. Um the uh I uh I I I I don't like the mayor having
quite as as many appointments as the mayor have. I wish the council did all the appointments, but you know, it's a little pet thing. You know, it's a state is state statute. You can't do too much about it. Um I wish I could customize and tweak a little bit some of the stuff in the Faulner Act. I don't remember all
of it now, but um I think on balance it's pretty good. I um I'm not I I may I may wind up regretting having uh in this form of government that we have there's um there's referendum and initiative. Now we haven't had a problem with that, but there are towns that have um there
was one town neighboring town where there was a referendum actually to try to repeal the nonpartisan part of it. Um but that went down. You know, by the way, I think nonpartisan is very popular. I mean, most voters are like, "Yeah, let's get the partisan politics out of local government." I mean,
Republicans, Democrats, and unaffiliated voter. I think we won a majority of Democrats in that reset election, not just uh so um yeah, so I guess I think it is probably the best form uh the the the strong mayor form government is really strong mayor. So you got to make
sure that you make you elect a good mayor in that form of government. In this form, if you wind up with some uh admir, you know, some drama, it'll be rough. But, you know, I think that probably reason will prevail most of the time. The worst thing will be that you have manager, you're going to probably
be switching managers, you know, because managers, you know, are want going to want predictability and stability. And if you're doing a lot of infighting, you're not going to get the the best managers. That's the one thing that would probably happen, but you might wind up working out okay. Some towns
seem to move along even with some drama. Um they, you know, and they maybe they'll find an in-house manager that'll be fine. Um and I think that I don't know the gentleman who mentioned the you know that there is there is certain you know you don't want to have a circus you
know it's not going to help anybody. So, you know, you want reason and uh issuebased decision-m and rational thought primarily. You're never always going to have it, but um if you want good help, you know, and good leadership, you're going to need to have, you know, you're going to have to
show somebody who wants to work for you that this is a good place to work. >> And most good managers are probably not going to want to be part of a [ __ ] show. Gotcha. >> Yeah. Fair enough. >> Nancy, uh do you have anything else to add up add to that or you good? Um, no.
I agree with it, Ben. I mean, initiative and referendum was one of the things we're like, okay, it comes with it, but it could be, but I also know from the uh from the state, they raised the percentage of signatures you need in
order to bring forth initiative and referendum, which gives us some protection. So, I do like that. And also just going back to the strong mayor of former government, uh the mayor hires the administrator
and the administrator only reports to the mayor. So, you know, if you don't have, you know, if your council's not aligned with the mayor, there isn't really much that you can do because the mayor is not even obligated to attend council meetings. So, you know, it could
be a little bit out of touch. We had a case in Titanfalls where the mayor was first elected at 194 and then he got reelected at 97, but he wasn't really doing the the the mayoral stuff. It was all the manager. But so,
you know, you have to be very careful in who you elect because that person is choosing the administrator who's going to run the town as well. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. And >> thank you. Thanks. And thank you both. Uh, >> always a pleasure and honor being here.
>> Thank you. Um, would you folks mind taking a couple of questions from our uh from our public? >> Sure. >> Not at all. I'll be fine. >> Very good. Does anyone have a question? Uh, Jay. >> Um, first off, uh, fantastic. Thanks
for, uh, your time this evening. It's very much appreciated. Uh you I I don't think you mentioned that, but I assume it's a four-year term. >> Yes. >> A 43 uh staggered election. So four one year,
three the next year. >> And that's two years. Yeah. >> Right. Every two years it's either four or three. >> Okay. Yes. Um, so I assume you chose that way so that you'd have some continuity
at each election and versus having everything all on one, >> correct? >> With regard and you brought up some and I think it was Ben who brought up the the cost and and kind of the need to run a slate. Um, it not the need, but it it
definitely helps with uh the canvasing you need to do, the the uh signatures you need to get, the funds you need to raise. Um, what is and and I think you said you've got seven Democrats that are currently that ran on a slate together
and you weren't challenged. So, it's the same from the reset election. What in your view is would be the likelihood of a single independent non-democratic candidate
uh being viable uh for election in the current form that you have now for elections. I think that candidate would have a an equal chance uh provided they can raise the funds, they can campaign and
uh do what is necessary to to win. Yeah. They would it would be a lot of work for them to do though honestly. >> Yeah. >> I mean I run a small business so I mean it's a consideration for me. I mean I've seen it though. I mean I have you know as I said in previous life I've covered
other >> towns. I worked in the city of Long Branch for example which by the way is a strong mayor form of government and that exactly happened there more than once when I was working there as a reporter they there was a gentleman I can still remember his name John Dadia actually he ran uh he wasn't part of any party as
far as I could remember I think he became a Republican and he ran a very determined individual young man and went door to door um and got himself elected and he did spend some money I mean that's the thing I mean a lot of us think oh Well, you know, you you know,
I've talked to people want to run. Well, I want to run and maybe get elected, but I don't want to spend any money. But the reality is if you don't do mailings and something like that where you, you know, it people don't seem to take you that seriously. Although, you can do it, you
know, with a flyer, go to a door, and you know, in a small town like Redbank, it's doable. I mean, the problem is really in a bigger town, you know, where you don't you and everybody kind of knows each other here. You could do it here. Absolutely. I mean, if I in a worst case scenario, let's say, you know, I started not getting along with
anybody, um, and they didn't want me on the ticket, you know, would I run by myself in the last cycle? I probably would have. >> And I and I I think I would have had a good shot. I mean, fortunately, we are able to work with each other and would compromise and, you know, and I I do my
best to listen and I've had disagreements with some people on my ticket and I've apologized sometimes for things I regret saying. So, uh, you know, I I think that's answering your question. Um, but I've seen it happen in
in other towns that are nonpartisan. Now, we're new. Um, I think that we're not going to be as lucky in the next cycle in the sense that, you know, I'm on my team and I want the three people that I ran with to win re-election. I suspect that there probably will be opposition in the next election cycle.
So, maybe the next time you interview us, more more to tell. But uh it does happen in towns. It it helps if you run uh in a smaller town. Also probably social media helps like you know you can get on Tik Tok um you know you can do a
lot of these things to generate but even in those places they monetize you now like if you want to have lots of plays on Facebook and Instagram they say hand me the cash you know and there's now rules in the state of New Jersey on paying for that stuff. You mean you know
you personally like if you use Facebook personally they don't charge you but if you start promoting yourself as a candidate they want your money >> and then you have to report it. >> We're going to make the lawyers all rich. I should have been a lawyer.
>> Thanks. >> Thank you >> again. Thank you for your elections. Are they held in November? >> Yes. That's the first ordinance we passed when we uh got elected was moving the elections from May to November, which gave everybody an extra six
months. But it makes sense because that's when people are accustomed to voting. The advantage is we don't have to work uh so hard in our primary. So our election season actually starts a little bit later. And um if you're
politically inclined at you know the seats that are above us county and county state and national have primaries so it gives you free time to help work on your candidates of your choice at that level.
>> And thank you. >> Okay. But thank you so much for having us and I wish you good luck. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. Have a have a great rest of the evening. >> Thank you. >> All right. Sorry I couldn't be there in person. I would have enjoyed it. >> Appreciate your time.
>> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> All right. Um, >> so we log off now. >> Goodbye. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Nice meeting all of you. >> You, too. Thank you. >> All right.
>> Uh, Joanna, I know you have uh some community outreach, your ongoing community outreach. >> It's it's ongoing. I think it's systematic. I feel like at this point um enough people are hearing about us. I think we Jerry and I talked about um
increasing once again discussing happy Milburn at the next juncture when it's a little bit more pressing for the public to hear you know but and express their opinions. Um, so we aren't ready for that because we
still have so many people who don't live in Milbour there that it's just going to bring in potentially troll activity that we're not prepared to deal with. I think we really, really want to keep our community, you know, voices in our heads rather than having an international, you
know, like, oh, I used to live in Melbourne, you know, 60 years ago or 20 years ago. And, um, I think it's important to keep keep it local. >> Thank you. All right. Do we also want to discuss briefly um because I know Joanna
you and I talked about this um one weekend maybe next weekend having a sort of >> yes >> not like a public forum but just a a time where all of the commissioners can meet in public where we publicly notice it maybe have some refreshments in hours office hours.
>> Yeah like office hours. So, we we're we're thinking of March 22nd, um you know, having something a little bit more informal and definitely being available to answer questions because I think even by then we'll be, you know, a couple more interviews into it. So,
we'll have more opinions potentially formulated or more confusion on our part. You know, we'll see which direction it's going to go in after, you know, the next few sessions. So, yeah, I think that would be really great to get that posted somewhere and maybe maybe even we get like Instagram posts boosted
so that we appear in front of people. Um, so increase the because now I think people generally who know what's going on or have heard from other people like okay we're happy with this we don't always have to tune in. That's why I like to do you know that sort of comment but I do think we really want to hear from more people for our final decisions
and you know boosting those posts might be good just from our own channels and have to do that. I know I can do that through work so I you know we can figure out how to how much we want to budget for that. You do you want me to get the uh Bower Center if if we all agree on March 22nd?
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. This is a good spot. >> I also think and just a hypothesis that we have brought in so many different perspectives like between all the interviews that I wonder if some people are like you know what my perspective has been announced has been heard has
been so what's like I don't I don't need to go in and express it. Well, I think that is that is partially true. But I think if there are what happens toward the end of these studies, as per our attorney and as per just our experience in watching anything in our town that happens once things get voted on or it's
too late, people get angry. They're like, well, you didn't consider this perspective, but if you're not part of the engagement and we didn't consider it, you know, we we are not omnisient. Um, and we are five people who are trying to get as many opinions as
possible. meeting with many smart people who, you know, ran against us and lost, but they're smart and we want to get their opinions. So, that's another lots of different perspectives and all the people we talked to. So, I feel like we've targeted so many, but if if we can just increase that engagement even a little bit, the perspectives will, you
know, inform us. So, I I'd rather say we we've been there. We've tried to get all of you. I think we need to open up the opportunity so that we can feel secure that once we are >> putting together a report that we have given everybody the fair opportunity. >> I mean there's only so much you can do at some point you know you try to get
the engagement there or at least get the opinions but let's let's do some boosts and um and we'll get into the community messaging. I see a I see a mayor in the audience. Maybe it can become a little weekly things in the next couple weeks to announce the March 22nd because I think that will be the the real
important one to get as many people here as possible for us to really hear the last last things. >> 3 p.m. 3:00. >> Yeah, 3 p.m. would be great. >> Nice. More dinner, you know. >> Yeah. >> So it doesn't interfere with dinner plans. It's not too late on a Sunday, but
>> I think refreshments might be helpful because people like >> food and, you know, beverage. >> So yeah. >> Yeah. will get the mayor to pay for it. >> I don't know. Maybe maybe Johanna will make some fkaca sourdough fkaca from >> All right.
>> Maybe the reason people are haven't been attending is because we do this during the week and we we have tried to do Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. >> I know it's been >> chaotic for everyone, but that was intentional. Yeah. So we can have each day covered, but I think as you and I talked about, for some people, weekends
are just a bit better and you know, >> so >> maybe if we make it more like a social thing like >> Yes. >> Right. >> less of a business meeting. >> Yeah. >> All right. I'll get that noticed. Um >> All right. >> Start feeding my starter if it would s
>> public comment. To speak during the public comment period, please follow these instructions. En sure your Zoom display name shows your first and last name. Click the raise hand button. You'll be called upon in order and promoted to panelist. Please turn on your video when called to speak. Clearly
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chair's discretion. Is there anyone on Zoom? Dr. Conn, >> does anyone on Zoom wish to be heard? You can raise your hand. >> No one wishes to be heard on Zoom. >> Okay. Anyone from the public?
>> Yes. Thank you for this evening. >> Well, we want to go back and address your questions, right? >> Yeah. I'd like to uh finish my comments. >> Oh, yes. That acceptable to the >> uh Yeah. What I was um I had started to talk about was the comment on potholes.
Um and >> I'm sorry, Jake. the comment uh historically that potholes don't have a Democratic or Republican aspect to them. Fully understand the same way at the
federal government social security rep uh recipients don't get differentiated by whether they're a Democrat or a Republican. There are however aspects of local government that are partisan in
nature um not aligned with national politics but politics at the local level. So if we move to nonpartisan elections um that is one piece of the puzzle but that is different than
nonpartisan governing. Uh if we continue to have parties that drive slates um that pick candidates, endorse candidates, fundra for candidates, those parties will
continue to have influence in the local government on such matters as picking who's going to be on local commissions. So if there one party and you can pick your choice, Democrat, Republican, Green Party, whoever it is has a majority,
they can use that influence to dictate who's going to be on the rec commission or on the uh you name it commission, right? It's or they can even decide to disband uh a committee and reform that
committee if they so desire. So, I think one of the important things that um this commission can do is think about recommendations in addition to whether or not there's going to be partisan or nonpartisan
elections as to what can be done to ensure that we have a nonpartisan government and that the actions that the government take are nonpartisan in nature. Now, I'm not saying that happens today. I'm just saying that it's
something that we need to really understand and think about as we go through and evaluate our government. One of the suggestions I made when we met uh earlier um was that we bring the party leads and interview them publicly, the
head of the Democratic and Republican parties, and ask them if we move to nonpartisan elections, what are you going to do differently? Um, I I love Mayor Shakamandi's comment that he would consider unaffiliating if we move to
nonpartisan elections. I think that's a great thing. >> Consider considerate. I said I would do it. >> Oh, you said you would do it. Well, I I misheard you then. Even better. So I I think that's the the you know one
of the functions of the commission is to make recommendations beyond what the formal government is going to be in the terms etc. I think we should focus on driving to as much nonpartisanship in our government as
possible and that's my comment and if you have thoughts or feedback would love to hear it. Thank you. >> Is there anything comfor I'll make comment? Um, sure. You can make a recommendation to the local political committees that they not
endorse candidates, but at the end of the day, you know, you have a le, you can look at who's funding campaigns. Um, I think it'll become obvious if you know the party on the state level or the county level is getting involved in a campaign. you're going to see that on
elect. So, there's a certain level of transparency there. Uh, personally, I think that the parties are going to sort of recede into the background because um I think you're going to start to see people come together. There's a lot of independents in town that have not had
the opportunity to um get in get involved uh in in politics because they didn't want to have to choose a side. I think you're going to start to see things to be more like the BOE where you have if there are slates they come together based on people that have
shared values and interests um more so than than political parties. So I think if you go to partisan I think that the parties are going to sort of fade into the background. Joanna actually had uh when you
interviewed uh a former TC and that woman that wanted to uh run that didn't have uh she didn't have enough money you know and she was she was going to be unaffiliated she was a very very smart
person but she felt she she you know she felt she couldn't win you know so I totally agree with uh with with Jay and you know has has has to say. I >> I will say though as far as the money concerned and look I I >> I remember when you
>> I ran in a primary essentially as an independent but in a Democratic primary, right? So, I didn't have any >> remember >> uh I didn't I I didn't have any party money and so it was >> look if I thought I had the support to run and get elected, I reached out to
friends and neighbors and it was awkward and it was difficult but I had this for money because I wasn't going to fund it all all myself and that's what ultimately it was. It was a tight race. I don't think it came down to money. Um they definitely outspent me. I don't know if I had spent another thousand dollars, would that have gotten me then
another 20s something votes that I needed? No. I think it came down to a party machine and it was a primary and >> people Yeah, people I was Yeah, talk about ballot Siberia. I was definitely invaded Siberia and >> you know um I do think nonpartisan
elections is a step to you know because if you don't have the parties nominating you know if you have a and and it's it's kind of interesting because at least Redbank had had um primaries. We don't essentially have primaries. we have the parties selecting
the people and so there is a a lot of times they're they're they're hand choosing people because uh they know they can have the influence over the people. So, if you take that away, at least from the elections, even if parties start getting in and trying to um support certain slates, there's still
some level of independence of those those candidates because hopefully they're they're running because they're self- selecting as as opposed to now. A lot of people recently are running because the party, you know, tapped them on the shoulder and said, "Hey, we think you should run." And they probably never
even considered running in their life before. So, uh, the idea of of trying to root out completely parties, I don't I don't know that you can necessarily do that. And, you know, we've heard from a lot of townships. Interestingly enough,
you know, some of the townships we talked to, the whole idea of party interference, whether it's on the county or local level, is just foreign to them. And so when we talked to them like Shaq and I were talking to it was actually Madison and
>> we really don't have party issues at all. I mean to him it was like the concept who >> and that's partisan and nonpartisan >> just so the public knows they're not partisan just just it's they may not know. >> It probably just takes time I guess because you know Red Bank had been partisan. It's only recent. It sounds
like they had tremendous partisan issues and it only took one election cycle and seemingly they didn't even have a contested election after that. So I do think, you know, if we're concerned about partisanship in our government, the big
thing is is the election and then after that we can sort of take those other steps to to help root it out otherwise potentially. >> Well, we have also um when Jerry, Dr. Khan and I interviewed Verona. They don't they don't have a problem.
They they don't have a problem and they're nonpartisan, you know. >> Well, I mean, just just to bring up a point because there will be people wondering and I'm, you know, today's comments were not lost on me and I'm
very confused. um when the equivalent of BA um or ma the manager uh made the comment that well everything's partisan whether you have partisan or nonpartisan he said everything's partisan and there's there's truth to
that because you know yes we could tell we could recommend all we want to the local partisan you know leaders um that what we recommend right but at the end of the day it's either going to get rooted out this is if this is the direction we actually go in and not you
know staying nonpartisan which I know many of us haven't necessarily made up our minds strongly yet. So we just have to be aware that is it really going to make a difference if we make it nonpartisan does it really become nonpartisan if at the end of the day many people still believe everything's
partisan and you can look up the numbers of donations and you go to those people who would naturally fall in line with you with your party that you are not unaffiliated with. So, I don't know, you know, does it really make that much of a difference? And that's comments that I've heard from from the general public. So, I'd like them to be brought out here
to make sure that their voices are heard. >> I think something that um our chair and I heard throughout a lot of our phase one interviews was >> the important thing of the getting the right people elected. Um and I think that was emphasized today with Red Bank.
And >> yes, you >> know, one of the structural things that I I keep hearing is sort of the party label being an impediment to, you know, good people otherwise, you know, people who would want to run getting turned away. Um, now I know Joanna, we had that
conversation today where there's the anecdote of um an independent voter who really wanted to run and they thought they were a great candidate, but in the particular town only one party can get elected. she was okay with maybe affiliating with that, but her parents
were of the other party and so she just gave up on the idea because she didn't want to cause internal strike with her own family, right? >> So, you know, I it it always comes back to me at least for how do we get the best people to step up and serve the community, >> right? We we've we've heard many examples of people electing not to run
at all because they didn't want to say today. This was interesting because it was her family. She didn't want to say anything because she didn't want to disappoint her family and cause strife. Um the other that you mentioned was not her family. It was more, you know, she didn't think she would win and she didn't have the money to go fight. So,
there are enough stories, you know, that are compelling. >> And it it goes further because, you know, you're absolutely right. Getting the right people to run and ultimately serve. That means getting people to run because
they have a personal desire to and and and a desire to serve the community as opposed to you know, in our current form of government getting tapped on the shoulder to say, "Hey, might you be interested in it?" And I'm not saying that people who who ultimately get
elected through that, some of them might be great and not have realized they had the interest. But there is something to say for people who had the inherent desire to make a difference in their community and ran because of that and not because somebody got in their ear to
say, "Hey, we think you would be good on this issue or we think you'd be good and maybe you should run and we'll support you and then prop the person up." And they probably don't even know what it takes or they might not have the passion for it. So when this this stuff gets tough,
they will not fight. they will not do the extra research. They will not be passionate about it. That's what you really want people elected whether you support them or not. You want somebody who's in it for the right reasons to do well for the town who's committed to to make hard decisions to do the research
and take take a stance whether whether you like that stance or not. You don't want somebody who's like, I'm not sure what I'm doing. I don't even know why I'm here and so I'm going to listen to outside influences. >> Well, let me let me just say this. um
as as we noted uh 43% of the township is uh unaffiliated and uh you know we have I I happen to feel we have a lot of qualified people
to be on our township committee that to your point Cy just don't want to run you know because of the partisan nature of what of what we have here. So, I I'm leaning towards
uh uh seven person uh township committee per uh um um form form of government. >> We can't have a seven person. >> You can't not you can only have council manag you have to lean into that.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um but see I think >> I I you know whatever I I happen to feel we have a lot of qualified people here and uh and >> they might be but but I I don't know even even before things got you know
tricky with partisaness um many people have I mean I've been here since 1999 people >> since 1981 I'm sure people have told you in the past as well the fact that it's just hard to get people to run you know so I I don't know if it's fair to say it's only because of partisanship. It's
just sometimes it's just hard to get people to run. And what the party share people would tell me in the past years past is it's just so hard, you know, to get someone, you know, to commit to that commitment as as a pretty much a volunteer.
>> It is, but they're also looking for a certain person. If if you're a It's harder to get somebody to run if you're looking for a certain type of person. willing to sign a loyalty off. >> Well, I mean, I had Mary McN call me and
ask me to run because she's like, "We just don't have anybody." And I'm like, "But I'm I'm of a different party, you know?" She's like, "It doesn't matter. You're a good person." Like, I just think you should run. >> Yeah. I also think that back in the day, >> really kind of awesome. >> Yeah. Yes. >> I was impressed. >> Same same way when I first started
getting involved, you know, with the recreation commission and this and that and everything. I have I've had the Dems. I've had the Republicans. I've had people just ask all the time. So, >> Chris, why don't why don't you run? You know, >> what's great, though, is that that >> my wife said she'd divorce.
>> And my mother said she'd kill me. So, >> but but you know, the other thing is is if we get some of the toxity out of the governance, you might get more people whose spouses and parents would allow them to run.
So, you you open up some gates that that are currently closed. Mhm. >> True. >> I I do want to address uh Jay's question about the party chairs and I know Joanna, you and I have talked about this at >> Yes. How to evolve. Yeah. So, yes, >> I think the the forum that we're going to have, we should definitely invite the
two party chairs. You know, I think that that I think might be a more productive environment for them to espouse their viewpoints. You know, I know these party committees sometimes they have some like arcane rules where they can't talk about things that go on or they might not I mean they're temporary as well. Like the
chairs might not be the chair if they say something in public, right? And so there's this sort of >> you know if they say well I'm going to do this if it goes nonpartisan and then their committee says that's a terrible idea and now we're going to get rid of you as chair because you said that publicly. So >> I think that's probably a better form if
they do come that day. That would be great. So, so we'll have them we'll we'll reach out to them on March 22. >> Uh before March. Yeah. >> Before March. >> That's Yeah, that's a great point to them is like look they currently they play a pivotal role in our government.
No question. So we want to get as many of those pivotal cogs in our current form so that we can learn from every perspective. >> Absolutely. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I think that's great. That's exactly that's the right forum as we talked about because I know we were
afraid to get people in trouble with their you know >> people they represent because they may not be permanent >> and it would be a tell if one party doesn't come >> like the hopefully they both do. I mean I I think people will come.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. If they can send it like a deputy chair or something. >> Yeah. or even if it's like a smaller environment where they're more comfortable, you know, not airing out what they might perceive to be dirty laundry in public. You know, I I think
it's sometimes it's difficult if they're subject to these rules where they can't speak on behalf of the committee. They might not be in that position of power after things change. You know, >> people sometimes might be hesitant to be
more forthcoming in those environments. Um, have we addressed everyone's questions? >> Everyone, everyone okay? >> Okay, great. >> Good. Uh, may I have a motion to adjourn the meeting? >> Second. >> Third, 14 seconds.
>> All right. Gav. >> All right.