talking You ready? >> I I always love doing this. I don't know why, but I love >> Good evening everyone. Welcome to the March 22 uh 2026 meeting of the Milurn Township Charter Study Commission which
is called to order. In accordance with the open public meeting act, be advised that the notice of this meeting was posted on the township web. Uh Commissioner Bill, we please uh have one stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. >> All right. Uh I will now have a roll call.
>> Dr. Khan, >> Mr. Miller, >> present. >> Dr. Mer, Miss Parker Lens, >> present. >> Mr. Tennere, >> Mr. Ger >> here. >> I note that we also have council Suzanne Tasco of King Man in attendance. >> Uh the record will show that we have a
quorum for this meeting. Um, may I have a motion to approve the agenda? >> So, second. >> Beautiful. All in favor? >> I. >> Beautiful. Uh, are there any commissioners with reports since our last meeting?
>> Since our last meeting with like 48 hours. >> That's true. All right. >> Nice intake day. >> That's anyone has anything to donate, we're collecting. >> That's true. We will uh we will talk about the Roman sale at at an approach
appropriate time. Commissioner Parker Lens. Uh all right. Um let's do the public comment. Public comment speak during the public comment period. Please uh follow these instructions. Ensure your Zoom display
name shows for your first and last name. Click the raise hand button. You will be called to uh upon an order and promoted to the panelist. Please turn on your video when call to speak. Clearly state your full name and whether you are a resident or business owner. To
consolidate an orderly meeting and uh permit all to be heard, please limit your comments to three minutes. As commissioner, I'm going to nick that because I want to have a discussion. Okay. So, >> I think to set the record straight, you know, we had this meeting so that we can
get as much community input as possible. So, we might not respond immediately because that'll take a lot of time. We might respond afterwards, but you know, whatever you have to say, >> let's get it out and let's >> Yes. Yeah. Let's have Yeah. Thank you. >> Uh, a reminder that the public comment
period is an opportunity for residents to share their views with the commission. Commissioners will not respond to the questions or engage in dialogue during the public speak uh speaking time. will carefully consider all comments and at the end of the public comment period questions and
discussions may be addressed at the at the chair's discretion which we will have the chair will have a dialogue. So um let's have a public >> sure
>> discourse >> what >> discourse >> discourse does anyone have uh a question a comment for us how we have been uh performing our commission duties and what what we have done so far
does anyone have any comments for us you've >> been doing an excellent job >> oh Yeah, people start rushing to close meeting. >> I've never heard that from you. >> But if you've been coming to the
meetings, you would have this. You've been doing excellent job. Please watch the videos, the interviews. That's the educational value especially like in the last four where you interviewed the mayor of Verona. I think Thursday you interviewed the the man business manager, not a business administrator,
>> country manager. administrator I think Rockway or >> Randolph um the councilman from from Redbank >> um >> just to get the input because I think there is a consensus you know there's a five factor because they're doing a
great job just we have to get the public to watch the video because of the educational value >> and Ben good to see you as opposed to be on Zoom >> this is my third time your town zoom was the first I just thought thank you for letting me
know about this meeting and I'm a former charter study member in Redbank, New Jersey. Now, your circumstances here are different. So, I don't want to comment on whether you should change your government or whatever. I mean, I'm just going to when they ask me when they interviewed me, it was, you know, my from our experience and how things have
turned out. So, if you have any if you want to talk to me after the meeting, I'll hang out. Um, elected like they did. Um, I'm currently serving on the Red Bank Council. Uh, our charter commission did recommend a government change. We went from a partisan um council format, weak mayor
to uh manager format. Um, I know that you're considering all your options. Um, the two finalists in our process were the strong mayor option and the council manager option, which is more like a board of directors. Kind of like I use the analogy like similar to a board of
education or your council members are board members. Um, but anyway, it was a it was a experience to go through it and I thought I'd just be here if anybody had any questions from the point of view of what happened in Red Bank. I think it was three years ago that we did all this and I just got elected to a second term
so I think we're doing okay. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> Thanks. Thank you, Pen. >> Uh, does anyone else um should I give a little synopsis of how many folks we have interviewed and who we have interviewed and so these
folks? So, so far everyone we have interviewed um everyone in the municipal buildings. Uh we have no not not everyone but but
the head uh the department heads and rank and file. We've interviewed uh the police chief um the battalion chief, the head of the head of the uh DPW
and >> is direct >> and uh the uh wreck department >> and uh we've also interviewed like their uh the rank and file of those respective uh departments and just just so everyone
knows We are really blessed to have such dedicated people in this township and when you interview like chief of police, the fire, the DPW, the wreck, people love coming to work here, you know, and
we have a very very loyal uh contingent. So, so that is good. And then uh Commissioner uh Bill and Commissioner Tanner, they interviewed other um townships similar to outside. So, uh,
Cory and >> the mayor of Madison who incidentally is the longest official invest and then we interview Nancy separately from the interview behind on Zoom also. >> Yeah, it's very informative to get their
perspective on elected mayor versus non-elected mayor, how it goes for their town. Um we specifically um chose towns based on their size and their similarity and having a downtown and you know commutable to the city things like that
just to get a different perspective because you know we know what we know from our town but it's good to be informed about what works and what works from other towns that are in similar situations. So that all of this is is the the intent to inform ultimately our um decision and our report when when we
put that together. Uh, can I add a comment? >> Yeah. Commissioner Park Linds and Dr. Khan, uh, you folks interviewed uh, our business administrator oh, three times in at least 10 hours. Right. >> And, and in addition to that, um, he was
kind enough to lend his time for us to speak with other business administrators from other townships. So that we were very cognizant of the fact that we don't want to we don't know what we don't know and we don't want to pretend that we know something because we are you know we haven't served on on TC. We haven't
been a municipal employee. We've been loyal township residents for a variety of years but you know at this board I think we or commission we've been here for a collective you know probably close to 100 years. What happened? You have four five >> 95 for him and
>> I'm almost 30. So I mean there I feel like we we almost span 100 years, you know, collectively. So we we just don't want to mess up what we have and we know we have a good thing within a municipal building. We love our our employees. They love us. They love our town and we
don't want our business administrator to be hindered by changes that we potentially make. So, we wanted to make sure that we also interview um business administrators or other equal, you know, um titles in other townships with the variety of governments that we're
considering so that the business administrator has a chance to ask his questions and pose his reservations because when we initially interviewed him, you know, that was the that was the the crux of like, okay, well, this is what he thinks works and doesn't work. How do we ask the other folks, you know,
to the opine? he had a good chance to chat with several of them and we feel comfortable that he feels comfortable and we've changed our minds multiple times >> after each interview because it's like wow that's a question so now it's just trying to synthesize with him again because I think we have another
opportunity to speak to him to say okay now that you've thought about all these different forms what do you think are the problems you know and I think that's my right >> the other thing to the extent it's not clear is this panel also spoke with current and former TC members from you
know obviously now but 1991 >> 91 till now >> so decades past and the point is to get an opinion and insight from every angle and that's why today to bring this full circle is critical is now we have the community in front of us like we've had
open meetings we've had at least 10 or so since January or so we have it every week but you know we've had some attendance online and in person but this is definitely by far the most audience members we've had. And so we're very excited to hear from you today because
because the residents are are obviously a critical component of of our decision- making. >> And uh thank you. Um Dr. Khan, you and I went to Verona. Can you uh elaborate on on that? How how many hours we spent
there? >> So before I get to the Verona story, um I just wanted to review all of the TC members, past and present, that we've interviewed. Um, so we've spoken to 16 individuals. Um, I believe four of those individuals we've spoken to both
privately and publicly. Um, out of those 16, exactly half were Democrats, half were Republicans. They represent a total of 76 years of experience governing our town and they span, I believe, almost every single year from 1991 to present.
Um, so we tried to make sure we got as many perspectives over as many different time periods as possible, over as many different configurations of Republicans and Democrats as possible, um, just to cover all of our bases. And as for Verona, um, when we found out that the
mayor of Verona was able to come speak to us, we actually wanted to dig up their charter study. Um, so they had done their charter study in 1986. Um, and we were curious as to what drove that change, what considerations they were looking into when they made the change. I believe they had gone from a
burrow council form of government, which was partisan, to a council manager form, which is non which they chose at the time to make nonpartisan. Um, so we couldn't actually dig up the report when Chris and I went to Verona. >> We spent four hours. We we well so what
we did was >> and and Christine Gotti's counterpart you know their township clerk she was very nice. So then we went to the library. >> Yeah. So we went to the clerk and she said well actually this is something that we've been looking for but we can't find. So then well first we went to the
library saying do you have this on file? They said go talk to the clerk which thankfully was next door. Um so we went to the clerk and she said yeah we've been looking into it and she actually had the box on her desk. She's like we've actually been looking for it recently and we can't find it. She's like, "Go back to the library." So, um, we went and dug through the newspapers,
which thankfully are digitized, but unfortunately are not online. So, you have to use like the physical computer in their library. It wasn't microf. I I didn't sort of want microf because that would have brought me back to >> And this guy is an unheld.
>> So, so thankfully the Verona Cedar Grove Times at the time, um, they their local newspaper like our item, they actually published the entire report in installments. Um, and so we ended up transcribing it as a commission. It's on our website. Uh, there's some very
interesting insights in their charter study. Um, you know, I encourage everyone to read it. It was very informative just setting a baseline before we spoke with the mayor of Verona and how their system is currently working, >> right? >> And he is also one of the interviewees. So that's a really great interview to
watch. >> It was recorded. I think I'm gonna get the date wrong if I try to >> March March 4th maybe. That's right. Um, and it seems like Verona has a very very uh they're very communicative with their
township res residents and that's something that we as a commission Joanna Parker Lens is uh working on. You know, our website, our township website is cumbersome at
best, you know. So we will >> thank you >> for making comments but people aren't listening actively. It's not the role of our commission to >> no >> to change things. But when we study this in such a, you know, in depth, >> we have the ability to make recommendations to them
>> personally and professionally and and make comments and and the nice thing about our town clerk and and our business administrator and I'm sure our soontobe, you know, whoever's our assistant, right, that's just starting will become part of this, you know, picture of people we can consult with.
And Christine Gotti, who's awesome. So when when we do actually make these recommendations, while they may not be official and not have to adhere, they really are willing and and want to get opinions from those of us who've been studying and speaking to other townships and they really want to learn, which is
why Alex was so amendable to speaking with the other um heads of their towns as from an administrator perspective. So, >> so there are there there could be formal recommendations that this charter commission makes that gets voted on by the public and if past formal changes
could be made, but at the same time there will be informal suggestions in the report that may be taken up by the township regardless of whether formal changes are made. >> Right. It's interesting to learn other perspectives. >> All right, let me give you a question.
All right, Milbour resident almost as long as Commissioner D, although I failed a test by 12 years. >> Um, given the great number of people that you've
spoken to thus far, >> um, has anyone argued in favor of keeping our system of government partisan? And what is their argument and where are they wrong?
Okay. Okay. So on Thursday on on Thursday >> on Thursday we're going to start phase three and phase three will entail whether we should have partisan elections as we have now nonpartisan
elections. Should we have the township committee have five people, seven people? nine people of 43% of the people in Milbour Township are registered as independents. So that's
taking into consideration. Does everyone here >> strong mayor or weak mayor? There's we're >> consider tell everyone what a what a weak mayor and and and a strong mayor is. >> Yeah. So there's um couple forms of government that we can go to. One's
called Mayor Council, one's called Council Manager. >> By the way, we did actually have our external law firm that that we retained did a presentation on this a few weeks ago. Very, very good, >> simplistic breakdown of the different
options and quite frankly, what's not available to us. Um, because ultimately there aren't actually that many options that are ultimately available to us. And so, he broke it down with slides. So, I encourage you all to go back and and we'll research what date it is in our next meeting. We'll announce I can
remind everyone what it is, but informative, but sorry, J. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um that that reminds me that I should probably defer to council because they'll do a better job of explaining weak mayor, strong mayor than I will. >> Um I guess just very simplistically, um mayor council, you have a directly
elected mayor and a separate council. Um the council serves essentially a legislative function and the mayor serves an executive function. Um for council manager you would have an elected the governing body is an elected legislative branch and they appoint a manager who serves as the executive. So
in the council manager form in the mayor council form the mayor is always directly elected. In the council manager form the mayor can either be directly elected by the residents or selected from within the council itself. Um and you know in that case the mayor just
serves as the first among equals. They chair the council. They don't have any executive function >> and only one one form can be partisan versus nonpartisan. >> Uh both of them can be both partisan and nonpartisan elections. >> The public can understand. >> Yes. >> And leading back to the partisan
nonpartisan who recommended um there were people who served formerly or serving currently recommended not changing uh from partisan to nonpartisan >> um for reasons that they felt strongly about that. it it it shows someone's,
you know, background perspective, true colors, so to speak. Um, so there was an argument for that and other residents who we spoke with offline, just residents who were saying they were worried that if you don't have um an R or a D attached to somebody, people will
have to dig deeper and learn about the candidates more. They may not want to and they might choose to just go down a line because it's important to them. And look, it's it's a valid point for some people, you know, that's if they really feel like that's who they want to align with. It's I I don't want to discount
those folks who feel that way. Um, not everyone feels they want to spend the time or have the time to research super local government because to them, you know, issues of garbage, snow, parks, wreck, you know, things that we deal with lease, fire on a daily basis,
they're like, nah, it doesn't really matter, but I do care about, you know, how they align. So look, everyone has an opinion. I mean, we have to we have to manage how people feel in our town. And it's more more about, okay, is there an overwhelming majority of who feels which way or another? I don't know if we'll
feel that way because nobody ever on a local level comes out to the degree to give us a majority or not majority. We have to really think what we don't know uh worry about, you know, what the future generations will be affected by. And we can only do that by doing the research from the outside towns, from
the outside municipal workers that we've interviewed and hopefully our, you know, recommendations among each other and and from folks who show up. >> Well, I think that that reenters today's meeting is we're not here today to make decisions or or or
give an opinion as to where we think we might be based on prior research. Today's point is to get everyone's opinion. You know, everyone's opinion has valid rationale and that's what we want. We we want as much information thrown at us so that when we start to actually discuss and debate, we have
every perspective on the table. >> This is more like a listening session. So, why don't we flip the question, >> right? Well, well, just let me have just just let me say this and then you know, >> feel free to press a lead a little like just as long as you don't >> disturb. Yeah. Yeah. Go.
>> Um u uh myself and Dr. Con we interview and then Joanna I think you interviewed Batman. Okay. We had a very very strong township
committee uh person who was a big Republican and we also had a big uh strong Democrat. Okay. And they were on the township committee together. So when it
came time to make decisions, they both, you know, they argued, you know, in the back room and whatnot, but net net at the end of the day, they said, "What is good for Milbourne Township?" And that's what we should have, you know. So, and
unfortunately, this isn't the '9s, and people um >> have a lot more information at their fingertips. >> People have a lot more information, and you're right. And people are skewed uh for you know what's going on nationally
and everything like that and >> scar tissue a lot of scar tissue. >> Yeah. And and we cannot have that here in Milbourne Township you know. So so that's where that's where we are coming from and everything. So as commissioner
park lens said my mind I flipped about three times how I'm thinking and everything you know >> but I think there's senses consensus on the first issue is whether we convert to the forner act I think everyone that you've been interviewing >> that's the first I mean the first issue
is do we stay in the form of government not subject to the acter act and I think based on all the interviews and the idea convert to the Balker Act partly because it sets out what the role of our business
manager is because right now our business administrator is governed by an ordinance. Um I think I think there's consensus on that and I think the consensus from the from the various interviews is that we don't have elections every year that we go into a two-year cycle. This is what
I'd be >> and that's a consensus to municipal uh >> about whatever we do recommendation that we'll be on a two-year cycle for elections and go to the for and then the other issues which just we had to fight about the size of the
>> I've studied the for act I think I say it verbatim >> let's stay on the topic because you brought up partisan versus nonpartisan so I I just want to hear from the public what the views are >> are you done on that topic you have more to talk about because
you know my view I'll just share my view that I think it's toxic to enter um enter party politics into our town. Um, my view is, and I think it's well demonstrated, that if we had
had a nonpartisan township committee back in 2011 and 12, I mean 2021 and 22, you wouldn't have the ugly elephant structures that have been built throughout town. You would have a you
would have had a much more intelligent uh discussion over how to meet our affordable housing obligations. Instead, we had those structures built without any resident input only because
the entire party was aligned one way. And I would say to residents who want a partisan system of government, great. Why don't you go and build more of those structures and try to get somebody else up there?
>> Yeah. Well, I want to well, I'll start with I don't agree with what he said, but anyhow, >> I want I want to talk about something more basic than that. Not whether it's parties or no parties in my
understanding of the roles of what government we choose where what currently now we have a mayor but really the this is my interpretation
>> the business administrator is running the show like he's the one the dayto-day paid person so how does this change you Regardless of party politics, how does it change in the role of the mayor
now in terms of strength? Does she become he become the business administrator? Do you keep a business administrator? That's more my concerns is how our government functions, not political parties, which I think
actually in my opinion we should keep and not keep shifting the blame back and forth and making you know for political reasons. I more want to know how it's going to work with each form of government you're >> describing. Sorry,
>> we're not gonna do we're not going to do the >> You guys aren't chat with us, please. >> Um, so your your concern is basically with the strong mayor versus a weak mayor >> and what happens to the business administrator? Is he still there? Is there a different name? What's going on? So the the strong mayor option is
something that has not been recommended. Uh kind of almost overall the the weak mayor is is the form of government which is what we have currently. We have a weak mayor whether they're directly affected. >> Weak is a legal term by the way not like a judge. >> It's not just need a definition of
weakness. Why don't you do as as Suzanne you want to give? >> Sure. So the difference um the difference is with regard to the mayor's role and the role that the mayor plays in the township. Um a strong mayor is directly elected by the people um and functions as the chief executive of the
town. So many of the things that the business administrator does now the a strong mayor would be in charge of the strong mayor um it's a chain of command that works its way upward um and the strong mayor holds all of those functions and and is in charge of all of the different departments that fall
under him. In a weak mayor, um the weak ma mayor um the the catchphrase is first amongst equals. Um the weak mayor sits on the town township council. He or she has the same vote as everyone else and they are more of a ceremonial figurehead um with certain duties that are afforded
to them. Um but they they do not hold the executive power for the town. they get some privileges like >> but you have to complete the thought that in an executive uh strong mayor there's a voted position by the >> correct and I think I said that at the
beginning I can build on that a little bit um a strong mayor is necessarily directly elected by the people of the town the system that Milbour has now um the voters here in Milbourne elect their township council and the members of the council then vote for their weak mayor
The system we have now actually going by the by the book the township committee has both an executive and a policy role. That's the system we have now. We had chosen as a township committee through ordinance to appoint a business administrator
uh that carries on most of the executive functions but in terms of delineation of responsibility it's still working. We have been operating well as practice but uh it's it's not as well defined legally what the delineation of responsibilities
are because you have a mix of policy and and uh um executive questions that are being considered by the company right now. What would happen in a council manager form for example instead of a the business administrator right now is like a chief administrative officer of
the town. >> In a council manager form >> he or she will become a chief executive officer of the town with with the five member, seven member or nine member committee being holding only a policy role. >> Right? So that's that that deliation
which we kind of have created through ordinance will become more formal. So if you're asking me what would change if we were to end up with that recommendation and make that conclusion, not too much will change because we have this ordinance that gives a lot of power to the BA, but it will codify and make it
more formal. >> Okay. So it tightens things up. >> Just to follow along, I think Sha did an excellent job explaining that. I think, you know, when when you say that the business administrator runs things in our town, that's sort of a it's a it's
not a it's not codified that way. Um, you know, it's a it's sort of a tradition that is defined by our township ordinance. >> Um, you know, theoretically, not that it would ever happen, I don't think. Um, you know, the township committee could revise the business administrator ordinance
>> because that is a locally defined ordinance and they could change the roles and responsibilities of the business administrator. They could strengthen it, they could weaken it. >> Um, but that's something that is currently an option under our township committee form of government. In a council manager form of government, the
manager's responsibilities are defined by state statute. So, we locally would not be able to change the executive function. Um, the elected members of the governing body would only serve a legislative function, but part of their purpose is to appoint the manager.
And just to let everyone know, we've had uh two business administrators in my time here and uh they've run the township phenomenally and our bonds are AAA
rated. So um in that in that uh re re regard uh you know the township runs business administrator is is the head but when I've interviewed the police the
fire the DPW the wreck they don't really care who who the township committee is because it's the fire, burglary, whatever, they go and perform their
function. So they you know and and then you know they all have budgets and everything and you know we're all blessed that we live in a very affluent community. So if they want you know the fire department needs a fire truck or the police you know you know they have
longevity for these things. So they have a fiveyear plan, a 10-year plan, a 15-year plan. So um in that regard, the department's run extremely smoothly.
So next gentleman in the back, >> uh just so I can get my arms more around. >> Can you say uh say your name, please? >> Yeah, it's Rob Freriedman. >> Thank you, Rob. >> I'm just using this as an example. trying to get my arms around what powers a strong mayor would have versus the
current form. >> Let's say, for example, the township wanted to replace the police chief. Right now, the administrator only has that power to do that under a strong
mayor format. Could the mayor fire the police chief, for example? We should probably have our legal. >> Yes. Um, under a strong mayor format, the strong mayor is the head of all the departments. So, yes, he or she would be able to remove the police chief.
>> But that's not necessarily true. If the if the township committee voted to replace the VA if they don't get rid of the police chief, you think that happen? >> I guess that would be taking it another >> that would be taken another step under the could be some pressures. That's that
that would be taking another step. Yes. For the record though, removing a so we're a civil service town. We're moving a police chief that we want to do that. But is actually a very complex process and it's not something that you know
would be very easy for our business administrator or a directly elected strong mayor do on >> but if somebody was retiring a strong mayor in if in that format would be responsible for picking the next person. >> Yes. as opposed to in a in a council
manager form with a CEO as a business manager business manager would be responsible. Another issue you have with a strong mayor form of government is, you know, say you're on a four-year election cycle for that four years, you could potentially be having they could go and change Yeah. a bunch of
employees. >> You want to state your name? >> Sorry. >> I assume everyone knows who I am because I'm the current. Um, >> still haven't stated your name. >> You're a resident. We need to see your call. with with a strong mayor form of
government, you also run the risk of not having someone with continuity. So for example, we've as it was pointed out, we've been very fortunate to have only two business administrators uh you know in the past decades and decades. And what that means is as the
township committees come and go, we still have someone that has institutional knowledge that has the relationships with all of the department heads and all of the employees and can provide continuity. So the policy gets set by the township committee or it's a
municipal manager would be the town council, but the administrator or manager is the one that executes on that. It's like having a board of directors, you know, at a company. the board sets the policy level, but then the CEO goes and implements the policies
and has the latitude to do that in a way that makes the most business sense or makes the most sense for the township. So, I I I would strongly caution this commission against a strong mayor form of government because if we look at some of the leaders that we've had over the
past few decades, imagine if they had more authority than they than they than they did. What an unmititigated disaster that could be. We're a town of very uh high achieving individuals. A lot of us have jobs. And
if you had a strong mayor and that was their full-time job, look at the pool of applicants that you would have for that. Anyone that has a full-time day job would not necessarily be able to do that. So, in Summit, they have a a strong mayor, a full-time mayor. Uh she
was a doctor. She retired. she had to give up her practice. There's not a lot of people in town that are going to give up their finance jobs or their law jobs or or their teaching jobs or, you know, whatever it may be to go and run the government. So then you end up getting potentially these sort of career
politician types and that that to me is that would be >> Commission Apocalypse, please. >> I was hoping to make a comment. Um so from all the interviews that we did conduct uh that was definitely a strong recommendation against a strong mayor.
Um and and the fact that we've had a weak mayor and and that part has been working and the business administrator role is so strong already. There's kind of I think that's one thing that we have been agreeing on and not flip-flopping at all. If I can you know for myself um
I think that opinion has been you know dri driven into my head after doing that research. But in addition to that, we had um before Tim Gordon and you you guys interviewed Tim Gordon. I think it's a really important interview that if you can share a little bit of that
information when he came into play, what was going on with the TC and how he changed it because I think that will also address why we have such a good strong business administrator role that we want to keep. >> So sure. Uh, so actually going back to Miss Cosgrove's comment, um, the
township committee, you know, we've had township committee in Melbourne since 1857. Um, and the original sort of background as to how township committee works is based off of the New England, you know, town hall format of government where, you know, you have people that hold both the legislative and executive
function. Um, that was true pretty much up until the early 1980s. So what would happen was you would elect members to the township committee and each member of the township committee would be responsible for one department. So one one of the five would be responsible for police. The second would be responsible
for fire. The third would be responsible for DPW. The fourth save and generally you know the other members of the township committee would defer to that member who was responsible for it. Now, as we got to the early 1980s, we started in our town seeing that people were less
likely to stand for election because that's quite a big responsibility. You know, having a lay person manage a police department is not really the best idea. Um, so at the time it was contemplated to move to there was some history in 1972 where a council manager
had been proposed. um that didn't pass at the time, but by the time the early 1980s came around. Um there was desire to consolidate all the executive authority into a business administrative position. So that's around 1984 is when those discussions were happening. uh we
had to dig through the item archives, but essentially what happened was the township committee members at the time they sat down Tim Gordon who was to be the business administrator for 31 years afterward. Um they basically said, you know, we're looking for a business administrator. Tim Gordon said, "Okay,
well, if you're going to do this, you have to be serious about it. I have to have real responsibility. I don't want you meddling in how all the department heads run dayto-day. you really sort of have to relinquish this executive authority, codify it in an ordinance and really trust me on it.
>> And there was a lot of discussion at the time. Um, you know, elected members of the governing body might not necessarily want to give up their executive authority, but thankfully I I think thankfully looking back, I think that ended up working out pretty well in our town. Um, but again, that was codified
through ordinance rather than state statute. So that's and it can change uh with a majority of the current governing body if they so choose. >> You know >> quite frankly it's unlikely that 41 years of president is going to be overturned but theoretically that is
something that is possible in our current township committee form of government >> and we don't know what we don't know in the future right minus the crystal ball which mine broke. >> Um I think it's it's it's hard to wrap yourself around what could happen in the future and the things that we think
could happen in future are happening. So in order to better um safeguard for the future, there's other forms that we thought we would be considering in order to make this um not changeable potentially. So that is a strong thing we're considering.
>> I have a question. My name is Roy. My question is when the chop started commission proposed uh on like on the either a general election day or special election day for the public will this be
itemized or as a bond package for the president to vote? >> So under the under um the statute that govern I'm sorry I'm having trouble seeing over here. Um, under the statute that governs the charter study commission, um, it's the commission's job to present the voters with one
unified proposal that includes all of the elements that we've been speaking about. So, the voters do not get to parse out the various elements. The committee decides on the commission decides on them and then they present it to the voters with a simple yes or no question. >> But you'll have a report, right? you
will you will see the things that we've considered >> in order to see why we've gotten to those places which >> well decided when we get to those places >> when we get to those places >> so there'll be a report which states the rationale for our recommendation that
recommendation will be presented in a concise question the question will be on the ballot and the voters can say yes or no to that recommendation >> so you won't get to say we want strong or weak mayor and we want this and this you don't get to pick and choose multiple choice. I think that's part of
what we have to do beforehand as your elected officials. question is a good one. This question is a good one and I'm wondering if we couldn't link to the report in some way on the ballot and someone could type in
the eural because so many residents here electronic devices >> it's going to do that but I imagine they will do a broad awareness campaign. Yeah, to say like we'll do more of these sessions once the recommendations are
>> and we're hoping the township will help us blast it out to all the residents through the different uh you know and >> yeah I I think I'm I think I'm good on the blasting out. We'll get it out there. I just know that the hands going up against >> something to add. Go ahead. Um there is
also I believe an opportunity to have an explanatory statement on the ballot to supplement the >> correct correct there is um a very thorough explanatory statement that will explain um all of the choices that the commission has made and that they are choosing to present to the voters. Um but I think that's different from what
Mr. you was asking which was whether kind of voters can piece and piece it together on their own which is not great >> but but that's really important to note that they will have a chance to read that at the ballot point >> and that's an addition and that's an addition obviously to the report which will certainly be widely circulated >> right the report's not going to be hey
go into vote and read it and then make a decision the report is going to come out well before that it's going to be >> multiple multiple times >> at least 60 days >> Michael that's that's the rule >> Mike Becker 50 years or so >> ah see a peak.
>> Um, he had more hair. >> He might have answered this before, but it's not just the short or two, three pages that you can send to the whole town. You have to file, you said, and the examples that are posted are a 60 or
65 page document that has all of your research, everything you've done, and anybody's entitled to see that, right? >> Yeah. Council, can you uh answer that? Yes. Absolutely. As you're you're absolutely correct, sir, that the reports that are generally generated in
connection with charter study commissions are, you know, 40, 50, 60 pages. >> Um so the commission um in conjunction with our office will draft that report and then it will come back here. The commissioners will will all vote um demonstrating that what's contained in the report is their intent and is their
recommendation for the future of Milbourne. Um and at that point, it's a public document. So even though all the plaints are decided by the commission or recommended by the commission, they still have a right to read all the details that you've been >> that's the purpose of the report is to
lay out all the considerations and the research that the commission has done through these interviews. >> Chris, is there anyone online that wants to no attendee? Chris. >> Well, Chris Hinrich, 15 resident. First
off, thank you for serving. You've done a great job. This is a lot of work. I've read probably most the material, watched most the video, so it's it's definitely a lot. And you put in 10 times as much effort. Um, I have a lot of thoughts about this. Stop you when you get tired of
>> bring it on. Some of the the council manager form of government seems to be a good choice since we've codified in statute. day-to-day operations don't seem like they'll change very much moving from one to the other. So that
that's my limited understanding of that. In terms of some of the options talking, um definitely lengthening the terms to perhaps four years, coupling that with elections every other year seems to make a lot of sense. The council people could
get a lot more done during that time frame and not have to worry about an election all the time. elections are a lot of effort. They're a lot of money and there's certainly election fatigue from the the population to the extent that I've talked to them about it when
we have it every year. Um, so I hope those are some easier choices, some of the the harder choices. It sounds like we're trending towards the weak mayor. I was kind of questioning that in the beginning, but I think that's definitely the right choice. one strong mayor person can cause a lot of damage. And
I'd certainly rather governed by consensus. And uh to that thought, I think expanding the number of council members would make a lot of sense to me. Um the um first off, just more people allows for more rec representation.
We've done a fairly good job of having different um parts of town represented, different political parties, um different religions, but I think the more people up there allows for more representation. I do think there's a level of work effort. I think I've heard
several committee members say they're on six, seven, eight committees. I don't know how they do that. I'm on the planning board and I go to all the township meetings and that's a lot for me already. If I had four or five, >> how many committees are you want? eight. >> I'm on seven now. >> Seven.
>> Yeah. And so like I don't know how they keep a breast of all the issues. So to some extent the more members you have you can spread out the work and get better at better decision making and more and more focus. Um so yeah
advocating for a larger the the the Cranford gentleman was speaking from the perspective of the business administrator and he kind of said oh lesser is better of course because he has more >> bosses I'm sorry >> so I get his perspective I would put
less weight on that because I do think that the benefits would would outweigh that. Um and of course I think the last thing would be partisanship. I would definitely move to to nonpartisan elections. Having recently participated in the last election, I will tell you it
was awful >> that I've been in this town 15 years. I served on the board of ed. I have a great working relationship with a whole lot of people. Soon as I put an R in front of my name, I turned into the devil. Mhm. >> I was savaged by people I thought I knew
just because I was an R. Before I ran, I pulled several of my friends and I asked, "Are my kids going to be ostracized if I come out and run as a Republican?" Just think of that. the fact that I had to ask that question in
this town, >> like what kind of people are we gonna get to run if they're so afraid of speaking their political affiliation? That should not happen, but it's a reality of life in our day and age. So,
I do think the the current system really discourages people from running. Like you can say an independent can run now. It's really hard. I don't know how they would go up against the parts. >> Why is
most of our town what what is it? 43% of our town and in my mind they are totally disenfranchised. >> Right. >> Right. If the one party primary picking the people who are going to run and they're most likely to win, I bet there are scenarios where less
than 10% of the population can choose the candidate who will ultimately win. to answer to answer your first uh comment. Um the folks that we have interviewed recently, I'd venture to say from
2018 to present, there seems to be election campaign fatigue. Big time. >> Yes. >> Big time. So what happens as you pointed out
why TC members can get along great for six months and all of a sudden they're going to run >> and this person next to me is a rap bastard or something like that you know not you know and then and then nothing gets done
>> 100% agree >> and even one more step from that the previous five years from when I got involved board of ed town of all that. Most of my friends refuse to talk about the town government. They're just like it's a partisan mess. Can't stand it. So, it actually prohibits people from
learning about issues in their local government because it's so divisive. >> Well, you know, it's in interesting for uh the last I don't know six years, let's say, I have been campaigning for folks for the board of ed. And the last
two years you got to trust the last two years cuz board of ed as we all know is not modest right you are you know you are who you are you have your credentials you served on PTO's da da da the last two years the way the
environment now in in in this country folks have asked me and a person I've been campaigning for are you a D or an R and that's a shame >> that is a shame because we have some great people in this town. >> Uh,
>> so I I see Miss Cosgrove, your hand is up before you start speaking >> because you already said you're just generally I I just want people to let Miss Cosgrove say what she has to say because I think her perspective is important. It might be different than a
lot of people in the room, but we need to hear it and it needs to be on the record and we need to have both sides. So I don't want this turning into a discussion or an argument. I want her to have her ability to say what she needs to say. So go ahead. >> Okay. So mainly um well background is
I've just returned from uh Washington DC advocating on behalf of conservation um who are senators and congressmen. So I had a measure of the political common you know you know climate there
not conservation wise but anyhow I think that uh even if you I dial it back I mean because I think that that it's really ramped up in in Washington because of our current administration
especially conservation wise what's going on but even if you take the parties out of it locally and make it nonpartisan. I think people will always be able to figure out what your values are, what
your party is, whether you're unaffiliated, affiliated, but you just ask opinions. And just because there will be no parties doesn't mean as competitive people
wanting to win. There will probably be stuff said that will hurt people's feelings because that's how people sometimes get when they up for election or re-election or whatever. And I think just taking the
political parties out of it doesn't take away a competitive situation when you really want that position. You should you should be kinder, but that not necessarily is going to be true whether you take the politics out of it or not. It's a competitive thing.
>> Do do you do you see an advantage though to the party system in local >> I'm asking it as a theoretical question. >> I think theoretically you look nationally you see a value system
>> potentially that [ __ ] You know nothing about me nor my background. >> I resent that. >> He's clearly in a >> I'm gonna I'm gonna end the meeting. >> And I'm sick of it. >> You know, we're not going to end the
meeting. We're just going to ask you to leave. >> Yeah. >> So, this is strict. >> Okay, good. >> Before Before we proceed, Chris, can you just lay some ground rules for >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You folks are supposed to >> I'm sorry. She made a negative
president. I'm going to ask you to leave. I'm going to ask you to leave. Does this >> I'm going to ask you I'm going to leave. >> Good. >> I'm happy to go. >> I can't I just can't sit and listen to this partisan [ __ ] >> You don't have to. It's good. It's a
beautiful day outside. So, >> all right. >> With that said, council, >> um, yes. Would you just please review the ground rules for discourse at the meeting or I'm happy to do so if that would be great. All right. Um, ladies and gentlemen, the purpose of today's
presentation and discussion here is not to weigh in on larger politics nationally. The purpose of this presentation is to discuss the charter studies commission's work with regard to the future of Milberg. And that means that I'm going to ask that everyone has an opportunity to speak. People might
have measured responses to questions that have been made by going to ask as I said a moment ago that people be given the opportunity to finish their statements and to raise their opinions and then the next person will have the opportunity to raise an opinion. Okay? I don't think that the kind of um getting
into mudslinging is not going to be productive. So, let's >> and getting other opinions that you don't agree with is good. Let's just get it out. You don't necessarily have to comment on it. Let's just get it out so we can hear it. It's good to get other opinions out on the table whether you agree or not.
>> Let's just get it out on the table so we can consider it. >> She was interrupted and then we can then we can go next. >> Oh, Costco. Can you >> I I didn't mean to offend anybody. I'm just >> all right
>> saying my opinion that I think people >> want to know the person and >> I think they're entitled to know the person and they'll research as much as they want and I think just saying that you know we're not going to have parties if people care they'll look into it if
they want to d deeper they can if they can and the people that are really sharp will talk to those people who are running and find out truly what they believe it's not you know You got to distill it down how much work you want to do and who you going to vote for and
just how much time are you going to put into it. >> I think he was starting to >> or you just look at your friend and you ask them who you vote for. I mean >> I think most a lot of people in this town don't know what's going on. >> I just want >> that. I think we can all agree agree on that.
>> We don't have the right news. >> You were starting to say I thought you was starting to say something about when Cy asked did you see advantages to the party system? You was just starting to find something. I just want to make sure you get a chance to say what you're saying before. >> I don't I don't I think having a party system is good a starting point and then
it you can distill from there which way you want to go with it. You know, you could find out more about the particular candidate, but you have a starting point and and where to go. you you're no one stops you from talking to either
candidate, but you have a starting point to poke in and ask some questions to see if their values align with yours and your values of or what you want of this town. You know, where we're heading, what direction
that's more important ultimately because in either party, you you may decide this person is awful. That's a personality type I don't want in charge. >> U Dr. Khan, >> do you just as a followup to that, do
you think that it's a disadvantage that BOE elections are nonpartisan given that there is no starting point so to speak from which to understand or I'm just trying to understand based on >> I think that if you're lazy, it's good to know what party a person's with.
you're just going to, you know, >> or you're going to be lazy and ask few more questions. It's a good, it does a little bit of your homework for you. I mean, no one's going to like I don't know how to explain it correctly, but I think it it makes it easier for someone
who's lazy or actually someone who wants a starting point to then delve into someone who you think might share your values and deciding whether or not they don't and what you want in this town before you might start looking the other way or you look both. It depends how much
homework you want to do, but I think it gives you a starting point. Ben, >> Ben Stler, current member of the township committee. Um, >> from a working perspective, I assume you interviewed everybody on
the township council, township committee today, all five of the township committee members. >> Yes. >> Okay. All five. >> Yes. >> Okay. And then when you interviewed the level of toxicity slashtheisomeiveness that you
how do you account for how much of the issue that is in terms of how people make their decisions? I think it's wrong to say values are determined by R or a D. They're determined by the amount of work you put into this community, the amount of kids you post, uh whether you
stand for big development, uh nonsensible development versus lower development versus fields for our kids versus saving a duck. How do you look at that? How what came back from your guys' interviews?
>> Can we answer that in a moment? because I I kind of feel like that might be answered in a bit if we have a couple of other people ask a few questions because I think this it might tackle some other questions but we'll put a pin in that. >> No, I think >> Oh, go ahead. >> So, um
>> I'm sorry I don't know your name. >> We're like totally behind nonistars. >> Okay. >> Um 34 years in Melbourne. Um not very involved in the community but keeping out. Um we do follow the bouncing ball. I am um um a retired communications
professional and I do think this town um lacks good communication um strategy and processes and I would love to help with um I think that you know you have to take baby steps. So I I kind of really
disagree with um I forgot your name. >> Okay. Um because we are very divided and if we don't start to take one step forward, we're just going to continue to be I think you
use the word lazy and just go with the D or the R. And to be able to um to start to branch out from that I think is a good thing. My second question would be though, how challenging is it going to be to get
people to run in a nonpartisan environment because of the division of the D and the R. Um, I I spoke to a neighbor who, you know, um, you know, people want to run, but then they get
caught up in, you know, being classified as a D or an R or, you know, and I would imagine it's challenging to get people to want to commit to the time to be on the township committee. Not everybody I mean, my husband was on a board and and
our co-op and I know people like beg people to run because people have lives and they don't want to do it. So, is this going to make it a little bit more problematic to get um good citizens to want to work? >> Are you saying it's going to make it problematic? Are you saying >> um just because so so many people want
to be still identifying as an RD as is do we feel have you interviewed people and do you feel that you're going to get more people that want to be on? >> Yes. >> Oh, Ben, you want to answer that? >> I feel like Ben could answer that potentially. Well, um,
so Ben, I am on a nonpartisan foreign government, but it's interesting. I was really listening carefully. You I I was part of the Democratic apparatus in town, too. I still am. I'm Democrat >> in Red Bank. >> In Red Bank, >> right? So, in fact, I'm running I just filed my paperwork today to run for
Democratic Committee men from the 8th district where I'm at. But, you know, so switching to nonpartisan, you know, um was something I struggled with. Um, you know, you like there is a there is an advantage. I don't even have the testimony. I didn't give it. But one one
thing I liked about partisan as somebody who though I with my kids and I'm busy is like, you know, they would come up to you and say, "Well, you know, all you have to do is run, Ben. You don't have to raise any money. We got a nice operation here." And, you know, I was
part of it. I would go to Democratic events and put in my 50 bucks, you know, to pay and, you know, it was all kind of set up for you. And then the campaign, you know, chairman would here, we'll we'll just recycle this election stuff that we've used before and we'll put your name in it instead of Sandra and you know in that in that way it was kind
of nice you know um that was sort of a nice system you know and it made it easier to run certainly if you had financial challenges which my wife and I do um you know so that was one of the considerations of trying to address you know one of the things you know that was sort of wrestling with some of you are
there advantages to partisan and I would say on some level Well, that's a consideration because if you're running a nonpartisan, you have to do all your own stuff. You have to raise your own money. You have to raise you have to start your little organization. You have to have your own attorney. You have to have your own treasurer. And that's all
not set up for you necessarily. And Red Bank, you know, we're running our own political operation. It's not the Democratic party. even though I'm still a committee member, we're we we stay only involved in uh state things, you know, supporting the governor or, you know, uh we're staying out of, you know,
the Democratic party in Redbank can even make an endorsement of all the Democratic bills. Everybody serving is a registered Democrat who won in the nonpartisan election, including myself. But and everybody knows my my affiliation, you know, I go on Facebook and social media and they know where I stand. But, you know, I I think that my
testimony to you guys, one of the things I kind of like about nonpartisan is that I can knock on every door. I mean, we have a Democratic majority in my town. So, the strategy kind of was um to just, you know, get the Democratic vote out and you win. Um, but I really like um
being a town activist that I would knock on every door and I would knock on the Republican gentleman's door and the unaffiliated voters's door and I and I would like to think that we won um you know the council as well as the change of government with the with the non support a broad base of support that for
unaffiliated voters because they were they I agree with the gentleman but they are very unaffiliated in Red Bank. It's one of the reasons I I voted for the nonpartisan is it because I just thought that was morally morally abhorrent that you know 40% of my town was basically cut out of the process because the
partisan system is sort of you know it's set up for the two parties to just run the show and you know if you ran if you had the tearity to run in Redbank as a unaffiliated voter you know you were buried somewhere on the ballot it was like comical really
>> um you know and uh I I found that offensive >> so to more um >> and we do have well last time I read I mean we only had a short term because what we did is we we have it toggled so elections every two years because we had the madness of having every one year elections you know we had elections
every year and it was madness and u you know it took a personal toll on me and many others and uh so we switched to two years so I I drew the short straw and I only got a two-year term when we changed the form of government so I just ran again so I like a two and a half year term and now I have a full four-year
term going forward Um, so I don't know if I answered your question. >> I also, if you don't mind, I wanted to address the mayor. Um, the mayor running as because I did disagree a little bit with the gentleman who spoke in the meeting I attended. Um, we chose to have an elected directly elected mayor. We
had the option of not doing it. Now, we also did that in Redbank for a while, but I I find that voters um, you know, I'm a doortodoor guy. I don't have a lot of money, so I got knocked. >> Just to clarify, directly elected >> directly elected mayor, right? We have we mayor say hello. He's Billy Portman
would like not like calling him weak. >> Okay. But uh Billy you're weak. Uh we have a Billy Portman's in my hand. >> So he runs our meetings and he has a vote. It's like a board of directors, you know. Um and he has a few appointment powers and you know he also sets the agenda. So the mayor has actual
power. I I I think weak is a little, you know, is used in government nerd talk, but actually our mayor has a fair amount of power. He has a little more power than I do as a regular councilman, but it's not like this wrong mayor form of government where they're kind of all powerful. Uh so anyway, I personally and
Redbank chose we went with a directly elected mayor because I I find it as a voter kind of offensive that some committee that you know this decides among themselves who the mayor's going to be. I guess that's what you do here, but I don't like it. Other towns nameing me that Miltown, everybody hates it there. Uh and so we weren't going to
change that. I think, you know, the mayor is your face of your town. I think everybody should have a say in who that is >> and it shouldn't just be, you know, somebody who knows somebody and the friends and they decide together, you know, um, how to do it. I mean, I get it
and maybe well intended, but I I think personally that's my preference. Also, if you think about passing a referendum and you have to think because as by the way, I went and campaigned for our charter changed. you know, we did our report and then I, you know, because I was on the charter study commission and then we we knocked on doors and had
meetings like this actually, >> Q&A sessions. We called them. We did a mailing actually. We had a lawyer look over to make sure it was nice and nonpartisan and all that stuff. We raised a little bit of money to do it. I had a fundraiser at my house. Um, you know, so uh we didn't have any problems
finding candidate in our first cycle. I'll tell you that we had 16, I think it was 16 people running, something like that. A lot of candidates. It was also and I also just want to say and I think I said this a little bit at this point elections are still going to be messy and that's not going to go away. Don't be naive. I mean people are can be
ridiculous you know and um you know and people we all make mistakes too humans so you just have to apologize when you make a mistake and I think love your neighbors and you know um whether they have I mean I I I've worked
Republicans running for office and um and I do do my homework you know some people I'm not a fan of President Trump personally but um no not a Republican actually is. You know, when I knocked on doors, I found a lot that weren't. So, you know, things are complicated and
some people love Trump and they voted for me even though they know who I am because I was aligned with them on the nonpartisan issue. I served on the board of education. Our schools have been doing fine for 19 years. So, I'm very proud of the fact that um a gentleman down the street with me with a Trump flag probably I think he says he voted
for me and I believe >> so. Uh thank you, Ben. >> That's it. Thank you. Uh no. Uh you had your hand up. Yes. So, uh, Nolan Bigman, Short Hills resident for 23 years. Um, also member of the current member of the
board of education. So, my comments today are personal comments, not on behalf of the board. Um, I have to classify myself as a little bit naive to all the inner workings of the charter commission, but I am learning a lot
today and I and I actually appreciate both sides of the comments because I think it shows there are obviously differences between town members and all those things have to be considered. Um, from my perspective, uh, living in the town for so many years and raising my
children here, I do think one of the greatest assets of our town is our school district. Um, and I again I'm a little naive to the charter commission in workings, but I'm less naive to the politics of the town and even less naive to the
economics of the town. Um, so my thought today, um, just listening to everything and trying to distill the information is I really haven't heard much of which form of government is better for Milbour financially. And you know, I'm I'm a CPA and an an
MBA, so I don't think in um non-logical or or ephemeral terms. I actually just think in black and white numbers, and I have a balance sheet in my head and an income statement at most times for most decisions that I make. And what I realize is that this township has the
highest property taxes in the entire state of New Jersey. Um, the last thing that I saw was I think the average property value is taxed at $24,567, but that might be outdated because I know taxes increase and not decrease.
Um, about half of that goes to our school district and then I realize there's other funding that comes from county and state sources. My general thought and maybe opinion would be I would select in your role the best form of government that from a financial
standpoint would be beneficial for the residents of the town. >> And I say it not knowing what that is, but I think of that as really a high priority because, you know, again, living here for 23 years, I actually have a lot of friends over the last five
or so 10 years that have decided to move out of this town. um and they move to lower tax states, low, you know, they're they have high incomes or high asset values. They they easily move to another state with uh with with really the taxes
as the consideration for the for their second or third residence. >> Well, state versus >> Yeah, but um yeah, they're moving >> city. Thank you, so >> quick comment. >> Well, I'm not I'm not talking. So um yeah, >> so so in terms of like voting uh for the
right form of government, I think there are grants that come from the county and perhaps from the state. I would try to understand I would want to know which form of government is beneficial. So if we go from say partisanship to nonpartisanship,
does that impact our financial relationships with the county and state? Um or vice versa, you know, just to just to put that out as a consideration. So, I just want to make one quick comment. I'd love to refer to our attorney because I think you'll have the best answer for what's financially, you know,
prudent. Um, I think from a value perspective, I think as realtors, as your wife and I are, and you know, Chris's wife is, >> there are different considerations. What makes up the higher taxes in our town in perspective to what value is is actually much lower than many other towns within
the count within our county. So, um, you know, when we're selling other towns, there's, you know, the high there's much higher taxes in certain other towns that are selling for half the price of what we have. So, you have to kind of consider that, too. But from a perspective of so, so that's value. Um,
but from a perspective of government, I would love our attorney to actually answer your question. Before that, also I will encourage you to go back and watch some of the videos and when the report comes out, we have interviewed people and this this the concept of whether partisan government is better or
worse from a financial perspective and tying to the county and things like that were absolutely points of conversation. Great. And so you will definitely have that information when the report comes out as to whether you know being partisan and more partisan tied to the county whether that funnels more money or not to us. So that definitely was
covered. So I encourage you whether we're 25,000 responsible for the primary. Does that go away if we're nonpartisan? So, but we should we should >> Yeah, that does go away. >> It doesn't go away. >> Yeah. So, it doesn't go away then. But I still think our our >> I was actually Cy um gave exactly the answer that I was going to give. Um
because the the numbers are not really something that's baked into the statute here. Um it does come down. You're talking about county grants and things like that. There was excellent testimony about relationships and maintaining the relationships with the county. Um so, I would refer you back to that because I think that's going to answer your question the best.
So, um, just to let you folks know, um, when we've interviewed, you know, township committee people, past and present, um, it doesn't matter if one is a, uh, D or an R, if uh, if Essex County
Executive, Joe Diet Senzo, you know, Alex McDonald or whoever, you know, calls up and says, "Hey, you know, a county road needs to be paved gets paid. >> You know, if we have a hurricane, you
know, the the the county comes in. So, I don't think it's the um I don't think it's the commission uh responsibility to talk about uh to have policy for
financial. No, just just to put that out there. But but we have investigated the topic and and there is on the record comments about that. So it would inform and and I encourage you to >> and once it comes out, you know, you can flip to the sections. But
>> Frank and then and then that gentleman in the back just >> I kind of want to disabuse people of this notion that having that D or that R next to you really says anything about your values. and and maybe I'm an anomaly, but quite honestly, and most
people know this, I was a Democrat for a very long time, came to this town, still a Democrat, changed parties to run against the Democrat machine. Now, my values did not align with those of the National Republican Party. They just don't. I mean, there's some things that
are good. There's a lot that's not. And I look at the National Democrat party, Democratic Party, right now, there's some things I like. There's a lot that I don't. I don't fit into either one of those boxes. And in talking to a lot of people in town, I think there's a lot of
people in town that are in that same exact position I'm in where there's some Republican policies they like, there's some Democratic policies they like, there's some stuff they hate about the Republican party, there's some stuff they hate about the Democrat party, right? But it's a binary two-party
system. I think that's the problem. 43% of the voters in town are independents. They're unaffiliated voters. So if I knock on a door and I tell someone I'm running for township committee and you know I tell them I'm a Republican, automatically they're going to assume
certain things about me and I know this because I've been at that door and then they'll say, "Oh well well what's your stance on abortion? Why don't you think women have the right to choose?" And I have to say, "What are you talking about? I think women should have the right to choose." I had one person, I knocked on the door and they said, "Well, you know, your party doesn't
believe in uh, you know, LGBT rights." And I said, "Well, I do. I'm in the same sex." Right? So, honestly, I think I think it's lazy for people to just go and look at the the D or the R and
assume that that candidate has those values because that's not necessarily the case. It really isn't. And so I think it's sort of unfair to a large portion of our town, 43%, for us to continue to have this two-party system that forces people that
want to run to choose because we've seen what happens when someone tries to run as an independent. Dianlo did that, David Marorrow did that. They got spanked. And that was because our system when when it's when it's a two-party system, people are going to gravitate
towards that one party or the other, they don't give the independence a chance. But if if we have nonpartisan level, >> the gentleman in the back >> does, first of all, it seems um almost positive. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>> All right. destroyed my life. You're right. Um, >> it seems that uh when the board of ed is in the process of reelections, that's
not correct. >> Okay. Would that process be some sort of a litmus test as to whether or not that process would work with the
township council, meaning when people vet board of ed candidates, when I vetted them, I did my research and it it took time to do my research. I don't know if everyone has the time to do it, but I I did it. I think it's not
a bad exercise. Um, has everyone kind of considered that process in terms of whether or not the township committee process on a nonpartisan basis would work? Did that
ever come into your discussions? So I think there were a couple interviews where folks we interviewed said if you are to go to nonpartisan there should be more robust avenues for civic discourse. Um I think the annual debates put on by
the short halls association is a good avenue for that. Um but I I do think that there should be more opportunity there always should be more opportunities for members of the public to learn about the candidates for whom they're voting. Um, so you know I certainly we >> but the analogy to the board of ed
definitely has come up before like hey look we do it nonpartisan in Melbourne for the board of ed might that be a model for making a decision for us that definitely has I got a good sense of whether or not that person is going to align with my interest even though that
was >> and if I could just bring it back to because I think this this connects to Ben's question and I think just more holistically if we can answer that. Yeah. >> Um we we did absolutely, you know, everyone can see the questions that we've asked uh that were part of the
report as well. We asked every current uh TC member and former TC member the same question, you know, whether they believe, you know, partisan or nonpartisan would be better. It does cause divisiveness or not. And everyone had an opinion. um of the current folks,
you know, I mean, you could see most of the recordings, but I think there were there were definitely folks who were concerned that um if you aren't an R or a D, to Miss Cosgrove's point, you you won't understand someone's values and and if the core values are so diametrically opposed, which I know
you've countered, you know, they might not know. So, yes, people were concerned um that not having a party label will not give the public enough information. Um and yes to your gentleman in the back point that you will do more research but it was definitely a concern. So to
answer your question there and there were people from the past TC from years back and from recent um history who were definitely concerned and did not want um to consider uh going to nonpartisan. So we're absolutely taking all those voices
very seriously because they served and they ran and they did run in a divisive campaign but sometimes they ran in a divisive campaign even against other Democrats. So it didn't seem to align along party lines. It aligned along personalities perhaps >> and and there were fights, you know, for
mayoral positions in the past and and people just didn't get along. So it just kind of matters. You know, historically personalities overrode personalities with civility overrode personalities with a lack of civility.
So I hope that answers both of your questions to some degree. >> Oh, that gentleman right there. Michael Pas 28 year resident I'm not a citizen yet so I haven't voted really long but hopefully that'll come up soon. I think there's a broader theme here
that's pretty important which is the idea of localism. I think that we're in the tide is turning towards localism and people I think need to have accept responsibility along with the authority of electing a township committee. I don't think you should go down the party
line anymore. That's completely inappropriate. We're going to be dealing with a lot of shocks, a lot of environmental issues, a lot of economic issues. And I think we should be looking, as Chris was saying, to candidates who want to serve and want to serve their local community. And I think that's consistent with people thinking
in terms of ownership as opposed to just passing through and voting on the poverty line. So I would strongly go with a nonpartisan view. And I think there are ways that as a community you can support that rather than it being like a middle school or high school, you know, who's going to be the but beauty
popularity contest. You know, you can say we will fund the town will fund you with $2,000 and you'll have these consistent formats and it won't be that, you know, what party back to you or what your fundraising campaign is completely. You know, that will tend to smooth things
out. That's just thought I'd share that. >> Thank you. Uh Chris, >> I challenge anyone to tell me a difference between the party platforms in the last election. >> I bet you mean local.
>> Yeah, the last local election. >> I bet you can't because the election wasn't about that. And in my mind, it should have been mostly about that. And to answer the question, if you looked at the platforms, what was written, they were pretty much exactly the same. But
nobody knows that because we didn't talk about it enough. We talked about you're magna. You're bad. You can't serve. You're an anti-semite. You're, you know, why housing? It was like ridiculous issues. But I I do think again as an
argument for nonpartisan, it would remove that and focus on the local issues. >> Can I Thank you. Can I bring up a quick point before we recall on those two folks there because I someone who uh we met with um Jerry you were there when we met with a group of folks just a little
focus group of folks who ran against us and lost because we really wanted to make sure the voices who ran against us are really heard because they um they ran they cared enough to to serve and to do the research and we fed them a lot of picacio at my house and then we kept
meeting because we want to make sure we have that discourse especially from folks who really wanted to be up here and didn't have a chance to. We wanted to make sure their voices were extra heard. So, I visited personal homes, we had focus groups, we made sure we reached out phone calls and emails. And, you know, there's a constant
communication. And one person brought up something really really great that could help our civility that while I we can't recommend it per se, but I think in the event that you know if there isn't support from ours and D's and we we don't know if the local committee folks
will um support candidates, I know in other towns they've voted not to they've agreed not to support candidates, but we don't know what the committees will do here in the event that it's nonpartisan. So >> So just to clarify, sorry to jump in. Technically speaking, even if the township votes to change and have nonpartisan elections, the local parties
could on their own initiative come out and endorse endorse. Yeah. >> It's just like if the American Legion >> comes out and wants to, you know, endorse Chris Heinrich or something like that. and and a wise person said um they would they would
they thought it would be really great to actually have what I've been trying to create is this little think tank of people leaders from all the different civic associations and nonprofits and those who care to join for whatever it is once a quarter kind of what the short hills association I know has been trying to do as well is get people together but
there's no unifying place where you feel that way so there's just a group and this person offered to head it up she said you know if we just have local leaders just come together and like have the discourse so that when people might be lazy, they can go to this group of and because maybe their friends are in it to say, "Who should I vote for? Who's
like what's going on?" You know, what's the scuttlebutt? And that's kind of what happens to some of us who are out there in the public, what's the scuttlebutt, who should I vote for? I get calls all the time. So, there are ways for the community to come together, whether it's partisan, nonpartisan, whatever happens to create a community of people who are
more more informed than others and those who might have, you know, more time because their kids aren't here. they didn't have kids. You know, we'll hopefully serve the community. We I feel some recruits out there. >> Yeah. We interviewed um to Joanna's point, all 14 candidates that ran
>> for uh this this this commission and the theme that I got out out of it was policy. you know, you can't get into the little >> nuances of, you know, >> but there are some people very concerned about not having an R or a D representation and and that those are
valid concerns because I think that echoes other people in the township there. There aren't just those singular voices. I mean, we're hearing it in the room. We heard it from a few people, you know, we visited and very strong opinions. Very, very, very strong opinions. >> Can I add a comment quickly?
>> Go ahead. Um, I know we're spending a lot of time on partisan versus nonpartisan, but uh, the way at least I look at things, there are two different questions we're trying to answer. One is what is the appropriate form of government for our town. And any form of
government can either have partisan or nonpartisan elections. U, but in the fight for partisan versus nonpartisan, let's not lose sight of whether our current form of government is appropriate or not. And I also want to state and maybe Susan if you can correct me here uh if I'm wrong that the
partisan versus nonpartisan question does not actually need a charter commission uh process for the township to address that or change that part. The township uh government in the future can
recommend one or the other form to the and the public can vote on that right in a referendum >> to change partisan versus nonpartisan elections. But to change the form of government itself does need some process. Charter commission is one of the ways to do it. And we're doing it
once in I don't know 50 60 years. So that this is a once in a three generation opportunity for us to address a structural deficiency or not in our form of government. So when people think about voting on the question we'll present I just want people to understand
that partisan versus nonpartisan is more of a temporal question. it can be changed in the future within the form of government that we choose uh as people to have for our townships. >> It's a question of elections. It's not a question of governance.
>> Correct. So we should we should try to in our minds separate the two. Think of one as more of a structural fundamental change if we offer a change and think of the other as maybe something we try and change again in a 10. But we can do it only once every 10 years. >> It's actually four.
>> Four. Oh, really? I thought was stronger. >> So we are not stuck to that partisan or nonpartisan question. If we change it today, we can change it back again if it's not working. I just wanted to put it out there. >> But we are stuck with the form of government. If we are stuck with the form of government something now,
whether it's the amount of years, right? The term cycle, the the strong mayor, weak mayor, all of the other things we were discussing, that chance doesn't come up until you >> do this process again. >> Yeah. So to be clear under different forms of let's just say larger umbrella terms forms of government. So we have a
township committee form of government. Right now >> the only choice that we have is a three member governing body or a five member governing body. Right now we have five. There's no option for nonpartisan under township committee and there's no option for a directly elected mayor under
township. >> I should have said we have to be under the new Faulner act form of government to be partisan or nonpartisan. So once you transition to a falconer act formal government such as council manager there you have options you have five seven or nine member council you have directly or indirectly elected mayor you have
partisan versus nonpartisan you have concurrent which is everyone gets elected every four years versus staggered which is elections every other year um and I think I didn't say indirectly versus directly elected mayor so once you move to a council manager you don't have to if you're staying
within a council manager you don't need to redo the whole charter study process process. You can put a referendum directly on the ballot to change one of those features if that makes sense. >> Uh did you have a question?
>> I know I know way. >> Go ahead. >> Yeah, I'm way I'm also the parent. So I just present my personal opinion. I have another quick questions and assume that we change the election from
nonpart uh there any uh correlated changes or new rules regarding to the campaign finance. Um so that's >> and whether the campaign you know related the finance there's any changes
or limitations. Um >> I question about that. So, the campaign finance rules come from the state via ordinance. Um, but I suspect that what you're really I'm sorry, via via statute. I'm living in municipal roles here via statute. Um, but I think what you're really getting at is how, if at
all, um, the partisan nonpartisan switch will change the elections. And that's something that I think that Ben can probably speak to based on his experience if you wouldn't mind. >> Well, that's that's I mean, yeah, I mean, we we have we have to follow different somewhat different rules. I mean it was a lot easier like I said
before when we I had a Democratic party you know they would do all that and now you know we have to pick a treasurer you know I have a treasurer I ran on a ticket um they asked me a lot about tickets you know and um you know one of the reasons I ran on a ticket is to
share you know it's hard doing it you know to run a campaign uh I ran on the board of ed usually I was unopposed um you know but you council you know when we had a mayor as part of that campaign there was a lot of people invol A lot of money was spent. I think our site spent 80,000 and our opponents actually I
think were like 118. I think >> and your ticket was how many? Just so folks can in case >> I had seven on the ticket when we this is after the charter study process made its recommendation was passed. By the way, the public can turn it down. A lot of towns turn down the recommendations. >> The last time we did it,
>> they get turned down too. So we we had sort of like reset the whole government election. So there was two two candidates for mayor on one ticket had our ticket and there was a an unaffiliated voter or you know running independent of that in the middle of it all. She literally grew the spot right
in the middle between the two tickets. Was kind of funny and so because it was randomly determined where you were on the ballot. Um but it is a little different. You know I have to uh I have to like I get a donation over $100. I have to keep record of that. I have to file it. I make a report. Uh, I have
thankfully somebody in uh, my life that does no state campaign finance law and um, and I I use him to help me figure out the paperwork because there's certain filing dates. I know this is very nerdy and boring, but it's it is a little different I think in partisan. Also, you don't get county money and
things like that. During partisan campaigns, sometimes like the state committees of Republican or Democrat will funnel money to you. >> That's what I tried to ask. But there may be a way to do it, but I don't think, you know, um it's a little bit different. You know, you're not really part of the party apparatus. Now,
there's a lot of messiness in in campaign finance laws, and I don't pretend to be an expert on it. And you know, people make donations that surprise me. I think I took a donation from a real estate group. Uh you know, there's a variety of people who for one reason or another donate money. Um and
again when you're nonpartisan you know you you I want raising money from Republicans as well as Democratic sources. So it's a little bit different. >> Yeah that's I I think my part is more like really want and the candidates kind of represent nonpartisan views that's
maybe just my understanding then the funding sources to you know support this candidate conceptually to be not parted. So, but anyway, I'm glad that you >> I think the answer unfortunately is all above.
>> Yeah, that's my >> Wait, wait. I I asked that question. Um, also I forget which um township committee uh or out of town or another town and it's all state regulated
because I wanted to put a cap on and I got hammered. So, no way. Um, >> you're out of here. You're not getting you're not getting the question. uh just
>> my question was as far as nonpartisan I think it was half said by you I don't know >> oh Linda Linda was um I think you were saying and that's my question probably the goal of being nonpartisan to get
more people uh to run as candidates >> and and did you find that was true where people went nonpartisan you get more candidates and obviously that she didn't It's it's unless you're a good fundraiser, if
you're running nonography, it's expensive. You have to have money. It seems like, at least from what I'm hearing, >> we we've been told by folks who did um do a nonpartisan that it was potentially they didn't have to fund raise as hard
necessarily um because it was fighting less about the R or D. It was more about and less people came out to vote too. So depending on the certain times of year like if if you had a May election because that was an option for for
certain forms of government. So when when they changed from May elections to November elections, more people came out to vote. But if it was a May and nonpartisan, you had a low turnout, but the turnout that came out was very avidly for their candidates and they researched, right? >> Did it represent the entire township?
Not. And so they they changed that particular, you know, town said, well, actually, we decided let's go from May to November. And the November elections really boosted the amount of people who came out to vote. And certainly when you had national elections more people came out to vote to get to begin with.
>> I the views we have heard so far is that if you don't have the partisan label more people are encouraged to run for the positions. That's what we have heard people say obviously >> but it's a bit more theoretical. I don't know that we've we've seen as many have
cycles. For example, the second time you guys ran, you ran totally out of post. People had faith in you obviously. So you didn't necessarily had to campaign much, right? So your money spend was presumably a lot lower in that second cycle, >> right? >> It's like, okay, not opposed.
>> I think there's also a point to be made about in a partisan system because you have two parties, >> each party is going to try to field the candidate even if there's nothing really wrong, per se, right? Like I think in Redbank, now that you're nonpartisan, you ran unopposed. You know, I I I view
that as a testament to you guys governing well that, you know, people aren't upset. People don't want to, you know, >> I think we're also exhausted >> eventually, but I but I think I I think and I had seen this in some of the other towns where, you know, stuff might be
going swimmingly, right? But just because you know two people are a member of a certain party and the other party just says well we need to field some candidates because we have some vacancies and we just need to I think there's that dynamic that also needs to be considered in terms of you know are people really just you know fielding it
for continuity purposes of having the party apparatus be in town or is it >> and then Jerry on top of that what we've heard getting back to nonpartisan but the type of government is having elections every year where you have these sort forced
animosity has created a lot of situations in in town that people are looking to see if we can try to correct because you know you have like Jerry said if you have a partisan election each party is necessarily going to put somebody up to run and then on top of that if you have
a form of government that you have election every single year now you have combative election such that the last quarter of the year basically people are sitting on the township committee and they're running for election instead of working on policy matters and it sort of
slows down the the the the ability to get stuff done in our in our government is what we're hearing. >> Michael, >> yes. Um I thought it was 10 years. Did you correct that and say it was four years? >> Yeah.
>> Okay. So, did I also hear that if you want to change what I call planks underneath the umbrella of the particular political system you're talking about. It requires a referendum. It can't be a
unanimous vote of the five, seven, nine, whatever the amount of members they are. Did you say require a referendum to change one? >> Correct. That gets done by the voters of the town, not by the council if that's the form of government that that is
decided. It would be a vital question. >> It doesn't it doesn't have to be special election. >> There you go. >> We always laugh because he calls her the real Jean. >> Okay. Um, I want to first say I learned
while we were here that Elaine Becker, her former mayor, has passed and she was I just it's weird because I always think of her as somebody who really served this town. Like it didn't matter what her party was. She worked across the aisle. She did a lot of things that were very productive for our town. So I think
there's some kind of I don't know what connection that she's there watching this and being very happy to hear it. Um, okay. So, I'll start by saying I am the Republican chair in our town. Um, I was elected a district leader and chair.
So, I do have a responsibility that hold uh some of the ideals of that party and that that capacity. Um, but I do have my own personal beliefs and that's what I'm speaking to today. This is my individual beliefs and I'm not speaking on behalf
of the committee. Um, I first say that other people have said, but I'm going to say it again. This is a huge amount of work and I really from the bottom of my heart thank each one of you. Uh I think it's an incredibly important thing that you're doing and uh you are all taking
it really seriously and it shows and I just want to thank you. Um the first person that I ever heard about uh you know a different form of government nonpartisan was Jane Morali. Uh we spoke about this I think three or four years
ago. we were just casually talking and he brought it up, wanted to read about it and I learned a lot from him and that was the first time that I started to think about all this. So, it's been a while that I've been thinking about it and I thanked him for doing that. Um, I would say that um I I had the experience
of running in this town. I was elected to the board of education and it was nonpartisan uh at that time. I say the atmosphere in whatever it was 2011 uh was very different than it is today. But I was never asked once what my party was
and I was never asked once about my religion, my um anything really. It was all about issues to do with school board. And I think based on the strength of my knowledge in certain areas, that's why I was elected. It had nothing to do
with my political beliefs. Um, so, uh, I would say some of the other things I noticed back then was I felt that that nine person board was very productive even though we had very strong differences of opinion on policy. We
were able to talk them through. There was nobody telling us what to think or what not to think or um, and I I I really have observed something very different in the last five years that I've been attending the township committee meetings. I don't feel that people can always speak their own views,
think independently, talk independently, represent the town independently and I think that is a big issue uh and has led to poor decisions. Um I would say that uh the level of rigor also in looking into problems that face our town was
very different when I served on the board of education. There was a lot of rigor that went into uh the things that we discussed, the policy decisions that we made. I don't think that that level has been achieved although more recently I think it has but I think over the time
I've observed closely that that has not happened. Um I think a lot of the reason is because the best people that we could attract to run don't run because they don't want to wear the scarlet letter R or the whatever letter D because of the
kinds of things that Chris described and I have witnessed it and I think it's just terrible. I was on the street one day with Oen Olabi when she ran and a member of the Democratic committee came literally rushing up to her and like scolded her and said, "How can this
black woman run as a Republican?" I mean, it was just incredible. I couldn't believe somebody would in public do that or say that. So, I I think the sooner we get rid of that kind of stuff, the better for our town. Um the other thing
I was going to say is one recent um event solidified my personal experience and thinking. Uh we just did a bipartisan event that started with a conversation I had with Jorge Master Pietro. He happens to be my neighbor. He's a member of the Democratic
committee. He's um someone who I really respect. Um I'm interested in architecture. I come from a family of architects, so I'm really into what he does. So we've talked about it a lot. And um I heard a woman speak u I think it was um Dr. um I'm not thinking of
Renee. She spoke at the township committee meeting. She's also a Democratic member, Democratic committee member. She said, "I really feel that we need a place to talk more deeply about issues that we don't and don't have the time or the ability to do that at our township committee meeting." So I had
the idea and I went to him, Jorge, I said, "Why don't we do an educational event on ICE?" because that seemed to be something that was repeatedly coming up. So, Jorge was gracious enough to sponsor a meeting in his home. Uh it was a group of people that I'm telling you would
never have spoken to each other had we not done this. Uh we had a really nice conversation. It was very um I would say intellectual. It was heartfelt. It was emotional. There was a lot of disagreement, but at the end of it, we came together and we all agreed we were
going to put this thing together. We were going to work together and we did. and it was really successful and I think out of that came some renewed respect for people. Um and I have to say I spent like two hours with my counterpart Cheryl Dearis and uh we had a really
nice conversation and like the last 10 minutes was about politics and it it it again brings these kinds of things bring people together and it I think it's really reflective of our actual community what we really are all like that we do want to talk to each other.
We don't want to feel disrespected. We don't want to have battles um and and call each other names because of an election or pick at people's past history or their personal, you know, beliefs in certain ways. I think we do want to solve problems in our town. I I
strongly um I feel that that's something that you guys should consider, even though >> I think you have. I think we've talked to enough people that you feel it. fact that we've had 67% of people vote in favor of forming what you're doing here speaks I think pretty loudly. So, and
that's what I've heard I think a lot of us have heard from our efforts in uh what we do in our volunteer work. So, uh, the one thing I just highlight last thing. I'm sorry to go on for so long, but I think it was the mayor of Verona that said you can have any form of government. You can have partisan,
nonpartisan. It's the quality of the people that serve that really make a difference. And that that was came to me so strongly. I'm like, that's exactly what I really believe. Right. >> So, good luck, Jean. >> That was >> I just verified, but Dr. Con um the
mayor of Verona uh once a quarter they have a meeting like this you know >> with the township committee you know and uh >> like an open >> an open forum like this and everyone can uh say what they feel and everything.
>> So you're 100% correct in that. I thank you for that. >> Another business administrator said that he does that on on the level of the municipal um folks. So, you know, has like sort of a family dinner, >> right? >> Um, so I think just in general, you bring people together around food and
beverages and and I think, you know, you're not as heated. I think when you're sitting in the room like this, you might get more heated, but I think if the if the rules of engagement are preset >> um in advance and you kind of walk into the room and agree that that's what you're doing, >> perhaps that discourse and when you're in somebody's home, there's more
civility potentially. >> Um, but on that on that point though, Joanna, you make a good one about civility. I think um it's important to say that in the form of bipart I'm sorry not partisan government when one side dominates for a really long time I think
it engenders a lot of anger and people's voices that don't feel they've been heard so things get to be more shrill and univil because they're not being heard and I think that that has happened under both parties that have dominated that people felt unheard so to get heard
they had to um up the level of engagement and sometimes it's not pleasant but I think it's a sign that people don't feel heard >> well to that point what we've heard also is we don't actually in Mil had a true primary system in Mil >> I say that
>> I mean [ __ ] >> um meaning in the sense that meaning in the sense that even if you're you're affiliated with a party you don't generally choose who's running for township committee the party itself chooses is um and even where there have
been primaries over the last 10 years, the party backed a candidate. And so then it became an independent essentially running in a >> party. And so people have felt that you know the you know even at least
nationally in theory you have the ability to choose your candidate who's running an election because you have a primary. in local governments. We've heard that that sort of frustration told us that. >> Well, the concern to your point, you don't know who's, you know, the party's backing, but and and to our current
mayor's point, you had to switch parties. >> The the comment was made by folks who don't want to uh switch from one to the other. Um is that there's the wolf and sheep's clothing mentality. You don't actually know who you're getting, right? Well, but you already had to do that,
right? you had to switch parties. So, nobody knew what they were getting. So, you had to come explain how you brought it out. Um, and I have a my cousin's husband in in little town of South River where my grandmother, you know, immigrated to in the 1960s and uh, you
know, now he is a young Egyptian man who became the mayor and he switched parties in the middle because he was accused by one party. He's also a volunteer firefighter. So when they had the big floods there and the river overflowed and their current mayor, who is the opposite party, he rescued him from his
home >> in a little boat situation, brought him to his home where my cousin and he put them up and their family and the party came after him and said, "How could you do that? That's an opposite." He goes, "Well, that's my neighbor who was flooded and I was a fireman. I had my
fireman hat and so I brought him to my house." And that was the first time he called me. He's like, "Joanna, I don't I don't even know what to do. I I I don't think I can be part of this party. >> And I was like, wow, that's a conundrum because I really hadn't really, you know, I was in this phase of life about 20 years ago. Couldn't believe it. So
it's just I think if everyone kind of puts their hats off whether we have partisan or nonpartisan it almost doesn't matter whether we have but I think the bottom line is whatever the choice is whatever we decide on the township whether it's partisan or nonpartisan I do think that the you know
civility hat has to go back on for everybody you know and take the heat off because if the form of government is really I think to Shanuk's point the form of government is probably the most important thing we need to consider and then the second consideration there's there could be a doover and if
it's if it's not this big referendum you know that you're going to pay money for you do it in election year let's consider the government first and I think for us too let's first consider the options that are real and then let's go to the other part I think I know the majority of the conversation was spent on the partisan nonpartisan we hear you
loud and clear I'm a you know bleeding heart liberal democrat I'm very transparent about it I think all of us have our positions you know what we agree with each other on um not from a party had but just from a neighborhood hat like you know and the neighborhoods
we come from and the things we do. So I think we just keep that in mind government first consider part two and see how we can align as we're all deciding to >> well thank you um >> I now close the public comment period.
Are there any comments from the commission regarding any comments made by the public which we already had this interaction? So um anyone else I um I close for me ask
anyone else I just >> I just want to thank you we're having this forum and I want to circle back how we began with Chris said we looked for the best interest of the whole community and when you're looking at this look at three factors that judge Rayoff looked
at like factors where you're going to have local corruption, local corruption. One, lack of independent investigative reporting. Second factor was single party rule and third one is the quality of duty to attract and I think that's what a lot of
people have been focusing on when you have the elections. How can we get the best qualified people to serve on the workbook committee? Again, thank you for posting that. Thank you. I was going to say we thank you guys for coming out because you know we do care very passionately about doing a good job here
and without your input we can't do a good job. So we appreciate you guys coming out >> and I want to apologize for my >> now now you can >> and you can even take some >> All right. >> Now I'm going to close the meeting.
>> Motion to close. >> What? >> Motion to close. >> Motion to close. >> Second. >> All right. All in favor? All right. False. Captain P. >> Yeah, please.