Welcome everybody. I'm going to call this meeting to order. I'm now going to read from the o open public meeting statement. In accordance with section five of the open meetings act chapter 231 public law 1975 be
advised that notice of this meeting was made by posting of the bulletin board and serving the officially designated newspapers. A notice stating that this meeting would take place at Florida Education Building in 43 Mil.
>> Allison Canfield >> here. >> Zachary Davis >> here. >> Robert Frinkle. >> Brad Jenkins >> here. >> Gary Rosen >> here. >> Justin Sailing. >> Elizabeth Wena here. >> Christine Bessach
Cha Lava. you. >> Just for the record, Christine Beth will be late, but she will be here. So, we'll announce that. >> Thank um do we have does any do any of the commissioners or council um have any announcements they'd like to make this
evening? Hearing none, we'll move on to meeting minutes. The minutes of the September 4th meeting have been distributed to a commissioner. Are there any addition for corrections? Do I hear a motion to approve?
>> To approve. >> A second. >> Second. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> All opposed. Minutes have been approved. Thank you. We'll move on to memorializations. Um from September 4th, this is
application number 588 Wington Highland Avenue. Do I hear a motion to approve? >> A motion to approve >> and second. >> Second. >> Uh all in favor say I. >> I. >> I.
>> Opposed. Great. So unfinished business. Uh we have no unfinished business uh for this evening. So we are moving quickly through this application. So we have four applications this evening. So our
first application is number 62067 Myrtle Avenue, block 206, lot number 12. It's a non-conuting property in Wyoming with district. This is a regulatory application to construct second floor
and rear house addition and other associated exterior site improvements, etc. Uh if we could have the applicants and any professionals to do this application swing in by our attorney. So uh hi Tom, >> good evening. >> Um anyone who will be speaking just
>> anyone else? Okay. >> And if and if one does speak, we can swear. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um can you state your name, please? >> Sure. Thomas Beo B AIO architect for the applicant at interior development
representing the applications of 67 Myrtle Avenue. >> This evening I'm going to have a few exhibits. >> Do you swear the testimony you're going to provide this evening will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Okay. >> I may proceed. >> Yes. So this evening I'll lay forward
uh what we're trying to do uh what we're trying to accomplish um some clarifications in terms of how Barton had requested um give a little testimony on what we're doing with the driveway. I have some samples of building materials and colors and I'll do that as a handout and so I'll proceed
now. First of all I represent a builder developer who's here sitting next to me tonight. um they formerly were before your commission for 48 Lynden Street. They're speculative builders but have a desire to really improve the vernacular
of some of the areas particularly in Wyoming Avenue of the Wyoming section. So when this Myrtle Avenue came up and the presentation should hold Myrtle Avenue is a effectively a raised ranch built circa 1950. It is very
non-escript. um the red, white, and blue red brick, white uh trim, white windows, and blue background um sort of stand out because the Wyoming section had much more muted colors with some of the historic and
charming um structures. Um, so I'm going to start with getting into rather than presenting the plans, which you've all I'm sure all seen, um, I'm going to explain what we're doing with the driveways that came up first. So, I
have an exhibit. Do I mark this exhibit? >> Uh, yes, please. >> So, I'll mark with exhibit A1 and today's date, November 6th, 2025. This is an overlay drawing I did on the existing picture which I obtained from
Google Maps that shows that we're sliding the existing driveway over. Probably not increasing in size very much. Um, I I doubt it is because right now about eight or nine feet of driveway
exist on the left side of the garage door and we intend to eliminate that space. >> One second. This is Matt. Did you Is there extra copy for >> No, but I can give him my original. >> Yeah, he's standing in for Bart and Ross. >> Yeah, nice to meet you, Matt. >> Nice to meet you as well.
>> So, um, the intent is to have a second garage door introduced, and it's very simple. We're going to move the driveway that's right now leading to um the staircase and one door over to the right 10 ft. The structure that we're moving closer to is the detached garage of the
home that's on Cypress um street. So this is behind the backyard of the corner house on Cypress and behind its detached garage. So it's a fairly um unoffensive uh expansion of the driveway.
um the style that we chose to do for this new construction um really did try to pick up on the vernacular of the area and I'll explain what that is. Our design falls for and I just put an
exhibit up here I'll do a handout on you have a Was that in our package? >> Oh, I know. I colored the elevation to see what's happen. So, this is the building elevation from your package. >> Okay. >> And I colored it. So, it's going to be exhibit A2. >> That's what my next question.
one short one. Sorry, I ran out, but I'll show you could see my phone. No worries. So, the idea is to add a level, keep a majority of the structure. We're going to um you know obviously add a second garage door and utilize the first floor,
gutting it, rebuilding it, and adding a second level. The style of the second level is a reflection of a Gambrell. The Gambrell is pretty prevalent in this particular area. Um these are not exhibits. This would be an exhibit, but
I only have one copy, so I'll keep this. What I did is this exhibit shows several homes that are Damrell style all around that red pin which is the subject property. >> One second. Um we're going to mark this
as daymail a copy tomorrow. >> Yeah, I can leave that copy back tonight. >> We'll need one for the hard copy at town hall as well. >> Can I bring that? >> Yeah, I'm over at town hall every day.
on. Um, so as the exhibit shows, we have a stone base that's going to be surrounding the doors. The first level is going to be party plank replicating the planking that's very much in the area. And then the upper section we're going to develop
out of shingle. And I brought some samples of the different coloring that we intend to utilize for this. And I'll hand them out. And this will be again a single copy. So, I'll bring you a hard copy. This will be exhibit A4. The exhibit A4 illustrates the type of
stone, illustrates the type of metal roof that we intend to put over each of the doors, and it has some color for the garage door. The garage doors are going to be a low carriage house style door because it does
dominate the facade. And I hope you agree that this is a very um good improvement by a a building developer who really does give a damn about historic homes. That's pretty much all I have.
Thank you very much. >> Hold on. Can you just walk us through the the new addition part or is it just the >> Sure. Yes, just for >> very quick. So, we have a raised branch, which I illustrate on the cover photos.
On the basement level, our intent is to add a small addition out the back that maximizes the building coverage that's available to us zoning tables. Down in the basement will be the second car garage right next to each other as illustrated on sheet A1, as well as a
finished recreation space and the potential for having a basement level bedroom. So it has a window well so that it could work for someone's needs to have extra bedroom on the on the on the basement level. The first floor is going to be gutted. Again, we have the small
addition out the back that's serving as the breakfast area. We've kept the kitchen and the family room in the rear of the house and we've kept the living room, dining room, and the additional bedroom in the front of the house. The first floor also has a shared powder room hold. the second floor which is now
subject to sidebar setbacks. So we had to bring the second floor in from the first floor. So the walls are not on top of each other. They're really inside the gamrell shape. So the gamrell shape is a product of a little bit of only being able to develop in the middle. And what
we've developed is three bedrooms and a two bath layout. Um the house has no attic. It has a single staircase that starts on the left side right behind the garage that's there and goes up to the second floor. And I and I mentioned right going back
to the style which you hand out on that. We think that the interplay of these different materials, stone, flatboards, and shingle is an appropriate introduction of a sort of a builder who cares about historic homes. And I think it's an
improvement over these events. >> Um, just I know you have a lot of material here that was just presented to us. >> Yeah. So maybe we could just take a minute if
anyone has any questions or comments. >> Tom, what's the percentage increase in height for current? And I think on the handout it gave us lab existing front elevation, but I think it's folks, right?
>> Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. You thought my plan is existing and I colored it. >> Yes, it is. My um take a guess here. The existing home is about 24 ft and our proposed new home is about 32 feet.
That's that's my answer. So the percentage of increase from 24 to 32 is 8 ft or about 30% higher. But as you can see from those photos of the adjacent structures, there's some
pretty high structures in much of the Wyoming section as homes were when it was built in the era never really were subject to height restrictions as whereas we are >> um what is this decoration that's up here? That's some trimboard cross
trainining. So, we intend to how to treat the upper gable. It's a little whimsical, but I I pencil over how I think we do the trim work. So, the upper part will be looking like a lattice. So, it's white on white lattice trim boards.
They've done it in a few of their structures and they love addressing these tabletops with some whimsy and that's really what that is. >> I thought the other side better with without the whimsy. But um we'll see how
other people feel about that. Um >> yeah, that's and you're referring to the fact that the shingles go right up. >> I think it helps. >> Yeah, I can go either way, but I think it helps form the aesthetic. >> And then I had a question about the examples. Um are any of those actually original to the Wyoming area?
>> Yeah, >> they are. Those examples? >> Yeah, those homes are all pre 1940 or 1930. I think one was up in the district here, right? >> The last one of them
one is one that looks >> I don't but it's not like it's not not of the character. >> I would say I wouldn't characterize Wyoming as a gay >> community like you know like I mean these are >> Yeah. Well, these are just homes like
right on the street. >> I don't know. This one I don't know about that again on the side and not quite. This one I would say is not an original house. I mean, but that doesn't seem of character. >> Yeah, it's a very squashed. >> And then this one I think it's an
addition. >> Oh, it's beautifully styled. >> I think so. >> But that's I I don't know that I think works for getting your square footage, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's
fitting with any. They don't think we have >> Can you just explain I'm having trouble understanding the windows on the second floor of the addition? How how are they actually uh set into the building? I
don't like explain to me the the elevation elevation. Yeah, trying to understand how your windows are set. It doesn't look like this one. >> So, the roof line's going to come down and cut out of a section of roof line is this fairly flattish return pitch that
allows these windows to exist. So, from the front facade, the gamrell comes all the way down, but as you turn the corner, there'll be this cutout and that's how the windows are. >> They're vertical. >> They're vertical 100% vertical. >> Yeah. It's basically a cutout within the
gamrell on the side elevation. >> I just have one quick question. Um, are the exterior colors and everything pretty much set or is that more of a >> No, we're here presenting what I think I would like to see. You, as you can see, the house is going
to take a much more neutral tone. It's right now it's red, white, and blue. Um, >> yeah. And it's, you know, it's it's it certainly stands out and we we're doing work. So, we're trying to make it an introduction of a very muted house, which is why I have beiges and light
grays. Yeah. I'm more asking that because of the the metal roofs that are over the uh the eaves that are over the garage door. Yeah. They kind of stick out a little bit at least. I mean, maybe it's just because he's colored in with a marker. It looks that way. But if you're going to have like this very light
subdued tanish color one that I my opinion might look better with um copper or over the garage instead of like a dark black. >> Yeah, I I would I would uh I would not
disagree. We can reduce this to a light uh carbon gray like a lighter colored. >> Yeah, more more of a suggestion. >> I do want to keep it as neutral. So I don't want to put copper in here. A, it changes colors, right? It's orange for six months, brown for 20 years, and then green thereafter. Um, but I would do a
standing seam aluminum. We'll go with a lighter color other than this one. >> So, we would accept that as a condition of any approval. >> Okay. >> Is the shingles on the coral different from the one?
>> Um, the shingles in the upper section >> Yeah. are are shingles and the rest of the house is hardy plank plank boards. >> Is there a reason because the examples you showed they all maintain stay >> purely for articulation of the
structure. Um as as Miss Wanga suggested, we can even agree to take away this upper trim pattern and carry the shingles up there. That came up. It just looked a little um bland. So I'm trying to uh fancy fancify the front.
This is actually pretty common in my >> the word. Yeah. >> And then the shingles at the top. >> Yeah. Pretty common. >> A lot of that >> and the hardy plank is smooth.
>> Yeah. I don't I I particularly don't like the wood grain hardy plank. I think it's not true. Oh, there's one other question about the stairs that come down from the the front door. Yeah. Are those being extended out? So, >> so are you're eliminating that turn to
building the driveway that's still existing. >> Yeah. So, I'll I'll point out. So, this turn is going to remain existing. Okay. >> And the driveway is moving from here to right to the front of that step. >> Okay. I I mislooked that. So, you're reducing the size of the driveway,
>> but I'm expanding it over to the other side. I I understand what you mean. Yeah, it was shifting. So the two park break at the drive at the street is moving over. >> Gotcha. Okay, that's perfectly fine. >> And so on that on the right side of the house where the second garage door is
going to go, just looking at the drawing, is that does that flush up against um that that sort of piece that comes off to the right right side of the house? >> Yeah, there's a little retaining wall. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, we're limited in town with two foot
line that on the second level. >> Is that also sort of is that all the brush or is that depth? Let me see what you're looking at. So, see this seems like if you like what where is this? Is this step back from here or is it allush >> in order? No, it's flush.
>> But I changed the siding so that I can maintain the gamrell shape. >> Okay. >> So, it's a little bit of an illusion, but >> yes, >> it's it's it's flat. So, but when when you see this home, it's gonna you'll see the gamrell trim coming down right onto this two facads that are the same just to just to render shape.
>> Yeah. >> And what what Mr. B was talking about is this surface is flat to this surface. And that's true. And we're using trim boards to sort of, you know, try to make it look legitimate.
>> Any more questions, comments? Um Tom just just making sure um the construction drawings will get accomplished those when they're sending the planning or >> Yeah. What you don't have in your packet are the structural plans, mechanical,
electrical, and plumbing lines. But that whole package would be submitted to the building department. Um I can we could submit a fourth copy. We do three. Two for town uh building, one for engineering. So if you want, I'll put a fourth in there. if we could have that
because sometimes that ahead of time. >> Um I also want to make it positive, you know, thank you for taking on another project in town. Um certainly, um you showed that you care about the town and you're taking these houses, but somebody
might tear down and they're trying to figure out how it best fits on the lot and improves the neighborhood. So I first confirm that um as far as um
the Amber roots and I'm again I think even though Elizabeth might be correct there are a few in the neighborhood and I can see why you did this based on Yeah. Yeah. I know for
space. the Yeah. And as far as these the way it's presented and all the the different elements, I think it does stop it from looking so big or the mask on it. So, I appreciate the breaking up of
those pieces. Um because the neutral colors you're picking, I think I I would like to see maybe just that seemed maybe kind of coming up with something maybe a little more neutral that doesn't stand so much off of it. I understand what
it's a very, you know, contemporary idea that kind of black, but maybe um it's such a beautiful building. I think my eye goes just to the black. Yeah. >> So, I would hate to take away from the rest of this because
>> you know why I made it black? This whole roof. I don't really color it, but we're using a dark colored charcoal shingle. >> Yeah. >> Um I have agreed I would make the light the metal a lighter version of a gray. >> And and again, if you need to get that
approved or, you know, or ask your client that that's fine, too. So, >> are you okay with the lighter version? Yeah. >> Yeah. She's referring to it's sort of eyebrows kind of heavy. >> Yeah. I mean, and again, you're you're
taking away from the beauty of the house. So, thank you. Um Matt, do you have any com Matt is standing in for Bart Moros as our consultant. Do you have any questions? But >> yeah, I guess um how far would the the
roofs of the garages extend out like the the eaves themselves? >> 12 to 16 in maybe maybe 24 at the most. >> The idea is to plant some lights in there and not have fixtures on the house. So it provides for down lighting. >> Okay. >> Just a better way to control lighting in
general. >> Yeah. I mean besides that I think everything else has already kind of been answered for me. So >> thank you. >> Great. Um so right now do we have anyone in the audience here on this application
for the open meeting roll up? >> Having none um do I hear a motion to approve with the list of changes requested by the board which I think we only had one and that was the >> coloration of the apron roofs over the
garage will will be made lighter possibly gray. Were there any others that Okay. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Sarah. >> Allison Canfield? >> Yes.
>> Zachary Davis? >> Yes. >> Brad Jenkins? >> Yes. >> Harry Rosen? >> Yes. >> Elizabeth Wenda? >> Yes. >> Sach Chakada? >> Yes. >> Thank you, Commissioner. Um so due to the noticing issues from last month that
we had a meeting uh we're going to prepare a resolution when you moralized and approved this application. Um can we get that to we'll vote on it. >> We we'll wave our 45day resolution period. If you can create a a
memorialization of this resolution tonight that would be fantastic. >> We but you don't have to stay here while we do that. We'll do it at the end of the meeting and then Catherine will do the >> right away. Fair enough. >> Okay. And thank you for understanding. Um we had a lot of confusion last month.
But thank you. >> Thank you. Um, I had one exhibit that was kept. It had the property locations >> and the shape probably >> that was and the first >> it was a Google map showing dots of
where the homes with the gam roofs were. >> Oh, that did come back. >> Sorry. comp, right? >> Yeah, I only have one, but I want to make people know it's in here with all >> it's a a threepage um paper Google map
with the pictures showing the houses around the corner and on the same street having our Damrell. I think I have that back to you. >> Yes. So, I have two I have the materials and then >> Oh, I'm sorry.
Yeah, >> I have it. >> I'll get those hard copies to you tomorrow. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Tom. >> Thank you. >> Um, >> thank you. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Good luck.
>> We'll move on to application number 619, 171 Highland Avenue, block number 3104, lot number four. It's a non-contributing property in the Short Hills District. This is a regulatory application to construct a rear uh Labota exhibition
with built-in barbecue and spa, a pickle ball court for the rear yard and other associated serious item movements, etc. Um, if we can have the applicants andor professionals, >> just me this evening. >> Just you this evening. Okay.
>> And can you state your name for the record, please? My name is uh Matthew Rosenbound. I'm the uh I'm the applicant for the owner DJ and Ruby meta property. >> Okay. Do you swear that the swear or
affirm that the testimony will provide the demon will be the truth? >> Yes, I do. >> Sorry. He doesn't stand in front of us. >> Sorry. >> When's the last time you stood in front of us? To be honest, we probably this house. >> Yeah. Okay. So, can you um can you
provide the board with the benefit of your professional credential? >> Sure. Uh my name is Matthew Rosenbound. I'm a licensed architect. I've been practicing for approximately 35 years. Uh I'm currently licensed in New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania,
and Florida. >> And your license is in good standing? >> Yes, it is. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So, please proceed. Thank you very much. Uh I appreciate board's fine and uh funny you remember me which is great.
Seven. Uh we did have a long process for this house and I appreciate everybody's uh attention at it. I think it at the end of the day came out great. I think you're one of the leading proponents. So it helped get through. So I appreciate it. The owners are very thrilled. Uh
unfortunately they're not here due to the scheduling conflict that same last month and they're away on uh on holiday to do the school closure. So I am presenting for them. Uh again I am the architect that originally constructed the house back in
2016 or 17. Um it's approximately uh I want to say about 4,000 square feet on the ground floor. It's a modernish structure in the historic district. Um, and we are proposing to construct
a rear addition onto the existing structure which is highlighted in the hat area which is an open air structure that would ultimately contain a dining space uh outdoor entertaining space for
a television, a barbecue and and a small little spa area. So, the design is intentionally trying to balance the rear one-story addition that we currently have on the right side of the property
and creating a symmetrical condition with an open air structure that uh aligns with the rear yard projection and the sideyard to create a courtyard field for the center portion of the property. any of the current
utilities of seating and or space for outdoor cushions and uh entertaining are is going to be moved underneath the overhang to allow the open space for the windows to kind of view into the
backyard. Um, we are also proposing a outdoor, it says pickleball court, but it's probably more of a outdoor sports uh, flat platform that would be centered on the courtyard space into the rear part of the property.
The addition onto the existing structure is a one-story structure that's going to align with the it's going to align with the existing ceiling heights and the existing roof overhangs. As you can see, this is the
proposed structure which is trying to mimic or balance with the existing structure that's currently there. We mimic the posts. We mimic the materials. And again, we're not trying to recreate anything onto the house that doesn't
look like it wasn't originally intended. Uh we're adding approximately around 980 square ft of covered roof space onto the project. There's no internal space that we're adding onto the existing home. And I believe the total impervious coverage
that we're adding is just over 2,000 square feet. Um there is currently no other proposals other than that. Uh again I can go through some of the other questions if anybody has anything specific but that's generally the proposal at the at the
moment. >> Thank you. Do we have any questions or or comments? There's some notes on the noise for the people who work. >> Go ahead. Do you want to talk about
>> there's some notes from uh the architect? So, regarding some mitigation of noise, >> I saw the notes from Barton. He proposed uh again obviously uh there's some concern about the noise component of any pickle ball court or any sort of sports court that are located on the property.
Um, we understand all that and I believe the owner has had conversations with all the neighbors. So, they're generally uh in line with the proposal and don't have any uh concerns about it. We are 100% on board with any mitigation on the noise
reducing paddles or the special type of ball as they play with that makes less noise. They're fully proposed for that. We also tried to locate the the court in a way that it wasn't up against any of the neighboring properties. Sort of locating it in the middle of the rear of the property just to kind of keep it
away from any other neighbors as well, but we're 100% there's going to be no lighting, no uh fencing. They're not planning on playing at night. It's not like this type of thing. It's for essentially >> their personal use and they're
anticipating it. Uh again because the patio and the space around the house is very limited and they're going to use it for parties sometimes if they have I know they host a wall and stuff like that. So they don't really have a large patio space. Um they would utilize it
for that. They might again use it for pickle ball or put a basketball hoop on it there. there's really not the ability to provide that use in the front yard as much because Highland's a little bit of a busier street and the driveway by the garage is is fairly steep. So, um
they're trying to utilize this space in the backyard. And we generally feel that any sort of use in that backyard was would be no more uh of a detriment than a pool or a patio for any other property in the neighborhood.
What what is the lot size? >> It's 1.1 acres. >> So, you're not going to have any lot. >> We're anything we're proposing as well with no required variances. We're well below the >> the required. In fact, I can tell you line of business. We are uh let's see
the impervious coverage uh I believe goes to 35% allowed and we're only at 23%. Um, I have a question. I know originally when we worked on the house before,
there was some mention of like flood plane. Um, and it was it came pretty close to the house. Is that still an issue? I know that there were some uh additional uh water management, you
know, dry wells that that went with this, but is this going to add to that? And certainly where the pickle wall still is, that is definitely flooding. Is that correct? I don't think it's a designated uh like wetland specific area
or anything of that nature, but there there was some additional drainage that we did provide into the rear yard for flooding because it's it's sort of a bold type of design. Um and obviously any proposal that we do for would be
submitted to the engineering that we do calculated to allow for drainage and uh capture of any water runoff from any sub coverage. So, uh, our intention is obviously if we get the approval, we'll do the building plans and submit
engineering plans to the engineering department to conform to all the requirements. Hope I answered your question. >> Yes, you did. Thank you. Um, any other comments, questions? >> I just want to confirm. You said there will be no lighting. This is
>> um Oh, I did have one more. It showed that there was a television, right? >> That is correct. And certainly how will that the sound be mitigated with that? Is that because of the landscaping? I was trying to look at all that.
>> So if you It's a good question. We uh provided a solid wall surface on the uh adjacent to the neighbor side. So um that wall will deaden any noise for the right side, which I believe are the
singers. Um, the TV is really just for uh again personal use. I don't anticipate anything substantial, but it would just have a soundbar and all the noise would be facing inward towards the courtyard. >> Okay. And that but your closest neighbor got the solid wall.
>> There's a solid wall which is behind there. There's an elevation in the package. uh you'll see I believe on page fourth page which is a solid wall which will be uh with the same siding and and with with minimal openings again which
are screen just to let a little air blow through there but mostly it's a solid wall right where the TV is and all the noise bar sound bar will be located directly below the the television facing towards the inward ter
Um, Matt, do you have any questions determin? >> No. No, I think looks good. >> Okay. Um, if we're done up here, I am going to ask if there's anyone in the audience for
the open floor. No, having um we'll move on now. Um, I'd like to make a motion. um to approve this
application. We don't have any changes that need to be made as is. And do I have a second? >> Sarah. >> Allison Campfield, >> yes. >> Zachary Davis, >> yes. >> Brad Jenkins, >> yes.
>> Gary Rosen, >> yes. >> Elizabeth Winga, >> yes. >> Chlo, >> yes. >> Thank you very much. >> Appreciate your time. Um staying policy uh right the yeah we're gonna write the
noticing we'll also do your resolution memorialization because noticing issues >> appreciate thank you for your Just a second. 61851 Chestnut Street, block number 307, lot number four
in the Wyoming. >> Hold on one second. Excuse me, guys. >> Excuse me. Can we We'll move on. Um, this is a regulatory application to construct a house addition, a detached onecar garage, another associated exterior building site. If you can have
the applicant and professional warning, can you state your name for the record? Spell your last name, please. >> It's roug Miller. M I L L E R from ahm architect located here.
>> Okay. And we're >> you've not stood in front of us. >> I have. >> You have many years ago or >> last year? >> Last year. >> Okay. Do you mind just giving the board the benefit of your background? >> Yes. Yes. I was >> I'm a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey. I've been licensed since
2001. Uh, I've made numerous presentations to number of variance boards as well as planning boards and historic commissions. My license is in good standing. >> And forgive me, I must not have been here. >> That's okay. No words.
>> Thank you. >> So, if you could proceed, that's great. >> Sure. Of course. >> Yeah. I just I'm not going to stand up the whole time. >> I'm sorry. Um, I didn't back up a second. Do you guys swear that or and a for or affirm that the testimony you're going to provide this evening is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
>> I do. >> Thank you. Sorry. Go ahead. >> I'll try not to testify. Um, so I just wanted to come up here and just say first of all, thank you for uh considering our application. My wife and I moved into town about five years ago.
And um I this is not an exaggeration. when we walked into our house, when we were looking for houses, she said, "I'm going to die in this house." She she just fell in love with this. And I she is not the kind of person who is quick to make those kinds of decisions, but she just just knew this was the house
for us. Um, now we've been here a couple years and we have a third child and so we our family has grown and so we're just looking to continue to enjoy our house and to remain in the neighborhood. Um, on that point, I just want to mention, you know, another beautiful
thing that's happened since we moved in. It's just our great relationships with our neighbors on every side. Um, I've lived in New Jersey most of my life, but I never had these kinds of relationships before with my neighbors and we're constantly, you know, doing things together and helping each other out. So,
um, just want to continue to be be there and be, uh, you know, member of the community. So, just wanted to say that and thank you for considering my application. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for your time. Um, yeah, like Jud said, you know, they love their house. Uh, they've just
outgrown it. You know, they like so many people work from home. They need a little bit more space. Um, I'll give you a little bit of background on the property. Um, it's a non-determining property as you mentioned. Um, you know, it's in the HBC notes. It's an undistinguished example of style. much
better examples exist of so many of those recommendations from back in the day indicated with these houses. Not everyone is a founding example of historic architecture. Um the house was originally a carriage house um built in the late 1800s was moved to this
location in 1927 um and basically completely transformed. Um you could barely see anything of that original carriage house in what exists today. Um it's been a large and modified over the years. The most recent
modification was uh an addition in 2000. Um the tax records refer to it as a a vernacular tutor revival style. I find it hard to see the tutor in it although there is some uh some elements. It's more of a mix of styles. It has a nice charm to it and I think it's a very
attractive house and that's what we're trying to do is preserve it. So, uh, basically the thrust of the project is is really to create a fourth bedroom for their their new child. Um, that required a little bit of expansion on the first floor. They have a work from home space
that's very very tiny. So, we bumped that out towards the rear slightly to create a footprint to build that fourth bedroom on the second floor. While we were doing that, uh, we wanted to improve the bathroom situation. And that required us to push the primary bedroom
out to the rear on top of an existing first part structure. Um, and uh, one other aspect is there's a shed in the rear now and we're going to be replacing it with a onecar garage. We're designed the garage to be the smallest conforming
town ordinance. Um, I'll go through the plan briefly. These are the existing floor plans. So basically the only internal changes on the first floor is removal of this wall. And on the second floor, this is where the uh primary bedroom being put towards the rear
forward to the wall. These are our floor plans. So we're just opening this area up to create a more open concept. Uh this is the larger uh bathroom that we're creating and just taking the existing bedroom and pushing it towards every year. And this is the new bedroom, the fourth bedroom that we're creating
on the second floor. This is that enlarged working home space I mentioned the elevations uh the existing when you look at the existing from the front to the proposed there's really no difference and I think the renderings are really going to show
that um I've given you the renderings before I'll just pull them up ready for you to see them So the existing house here um from the front proposed I mean it's basically the same. The rendering came out a little bit
yellow in printing, but our goal is to really keep the original color. The only real change to the front of the house is this bay window here. Um, the existing house has a bay window. It's a it's one of those pre-fabricated bay windows that you can buy out of the catalog from the
1970s or 80s. It was tacked on the house. If you look at Barton's memo, um, there's a picture of a house from 1927. That bay window was not there. and we felt like the Packon Bay window just didn't look like it was part of the house. So, we're do what we're doing is
reconstructing it as it would have been built in 1927. We brought it down to the floor, gave it more prominence, more significance, and made it more part of the facade. And if you look at that photograph that was in part of Barton's memo, I think that the bay really goes a
long way to integrating um the first floor into the second floor and creating a more attractive uh composition. If you look at the rear, it looked basically the same as it did before. Uh, and the garage, we're mimicking the
elements of the front portico with the supplied half membrane. We're going to do a carriage style garage door. We're also mimicking the diamond pattern. The only two windows of the original house that remain are these two on either side of this central chimney. We're mimicking that diamond pattern on the garage. I'm
trying to make the garage complement the existing character of the home. So, we really to mimic all the existing roof lines, all the existing materials. Um, the house currently is a mix of Stuckco
and cedar and asphalt shingles on the roof. Uh, the windows are Anderson 400 series. uh the existing or older Andersons. So, we're going to be doing more traditionally style 400 series in the addition to complement the rest of the home. I feel that, you know, if you
didn't know that we were doing this addition and you go by the house, it would look exactly the same as it did before. I think what we're doing is very harmonious what what's there and well integrated. Um I'll pull back to elevations of Barton's comments. Um he
had four comments. The first comment was the only one really of of any uh question. I called him. We talked to him on the phone and explained what we were trying to do and he seemed to indicate that uh he would change his opinion. He was going to update the memo, but he did
not. Um he said maybe he was going to um talk to, you know, the board verbally. Whether he did or not, the the real issue I'll go to that side elevation and it really relates to the the floor plan. Since we changed the floor plan, the windows have to change. And if you look
at these, I keep referencing that photograph of the original house. But the windows on the right side, there they were just popped in where they needed windows inside the house. That right side facade, there's no really redeeming architectural character. It's there was more of a practical facade.
And if you look at the way the house is cited on the property, it's really pushed towards the right side. And there's quite a few mature evergreens between that and the house to the right. So that side of the house is really shielded from the road and you don't see it. We're only merely changing the
configuration of those windows to match the change and programmatic needs on the floor plan. So if we can't move the windows, we really can't change the house. And that's really the only change to the exterior of any note. And it's the the least noticeable um side of the
house. We also uh put together a landscape plan uh as as part of Barton's recommendations and I'll kindly walk you through that. It's prepared by Brian Hersh, a local landscape architect here in town. Um he's not here tonight, but
I'll I'll walk you through his thoughts and what the home owners would like to do. So, what we're doing here is um because the existing shed is in the backyard, uh we needed to get a way for a car to get back to the garage. And what we wanted
to do is instead of sending the asphalt all the way back to the backyard, we wanted to do something a little bit more charming, a little bit more attractive. But we just have two paper strips going to the to the rear. It'll be a little bit more traditional looking with a lot of grass, creating more green space,
making it more attractive. Um there's also a fence that goes around the whole rear of the property. Um we're just going to have the fence on the left and right side. It's going to be replaced a very attractive fence. Um you know, in keeping with the style of the house and then along the rear um we're planting uh
some evergreens for screening. The issue is, I guess, uh, last year, a couple years ago, the House of the Rear uh, came before the board and they did a very large addition and there's a lot of glass on the back. So, they're kind of looking into our yard and we're looking into their yard. But, we thought this
was a perfect opportunity to add some natural screening to give both of us privacy and create, you know, a much nicer environment for for everyone involved. Uh we're also removing there's this large gravel area along the right side of the
house. We're taking that away and replacing it with grass. There's also this kind of sea of concrete pavers that wraps around the whole house. So to to eliminate some impervious coverage, we're reducing it, creating a a blue stone patio here, which I think is more
traditional and more in keeping with the period of this home. We'll also be putting in a few planting beds to enliven the the yard and to have some changes in color throughout the seasons. So overall, uh, you know, I
think that what we're doing here really kind of improves the house. It's the, you know, the concept of integrity, designing something that looks like it was always there, preserving the style and character of the house, uh, creating something that's more
harmonious and beautiful quality and even a homeowner. So, um, I'll open it up to the board for any questions. >> Thank you. >> Anyone on the board any comments or questions? Um, I have a comment, I guess. Have you looked at the drainage
pattern in the back? Because I think wasn't the the area that came in at one point and like people were complaining that water was being pushed. >> You can speak to that if that's okay. >> Yeah. I just want to make sure that we're not thinking because people tend to do that. >> Yeah. So I I you may some of you may have may recognize me because I was
actually here when some of my neighbors came um because the tennis court was causing drainage issues. Um we were here in support of our neighbors, but we've actually have never had any flooding problems whatsoever in our backyard. Um and when the previous um owners did
their expansion or previous previous owners, they installed um French drains through the property. So there is existing drainage. >> Okay. Yeah. I just wanted to make sure that we weren't pushing the problem back. >> No. Uh we we've never had water come
into our yard. Okay. from the task. >> Um, if you can please note Christine Beth now joined us this evening. >> Um, any other comment? >> Hey, can I ask a question on the uh the roof elevation? I just want to confirm
that the current situation is that the roof of the back part of the house is higher than the front. that perspective just seeing on the proposed and I even have the original it seems that you have a slight
uh difference couple feet but that's currently I didn't talk about that the the left side elevation um this is that fourth bedroom and you can see we tried to mimic the roof roof line of the existing house. The area that's poet is
the new and you can see it's lower than the peak of the existing house. But we wanted to design what we added to the house to be subordinate to the original. You know, this house was more of a cube. This original part, more of a square. We're trying to preserve that integrity
by making that reition out here. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Um have a question. um carriage house in the 1800. Hard to look at this house now and think where that
you you guys have a picture of that. >> I did see a picture. Uh you would if somebody didn't tell you it was the same structure. It would be hard to say. You could see maybe the roof pitch was the same, but the original house had this uh had completely different detailing.
There were really no windows. It was more like a barn. this. >> Oh, it's very interesting. So, you must frame those. >> Yeah, we actually are planning to um put a little bit of a gallery up in the front of the house just to acknowledge
the history. >> That'd be great. >> And you said the bay window was not original. Of course not. >> Correct. Yeah, the the bay window it looks like a 1970s edition. Um it was just kind of applied to the house. So,
we're making the bay be more part of the archive style of the home and more integrated as opposed to just the plot. >> Okay. And instead of removing it completely, you wanted that extra space. >> I actually think it improved the aesthetic of the the pot um you know, it
seemed like that area was missing and that photograph that had some windows. They seem more crammed in underneath the brackets that hold up the second floor. And I think the bay by having it come forward and recess back provides the same amount of natural light but seems
more suited to that portion of the front elevation. >> Great. Anyone else that do you have any comment? >> Um I guess more so a compliment. I
thought the uh on the bay the 11 glass to keep the windows next to it I think looks a lot better like that. Oh, thank you. >> Right. Okay. Um so
Oh, I'd like to open. Is anyone here public for this application? >> No. Okay. So, we'll move forward. So, do I hear a motion to approve this application? >> Motion to approve.
>> Second. Second. Thank you. >> Allison Campfield, >> yes. >> Zachary Davis, >> yes. >> Brad Jenkins, >> yes. >> Gary Rosen, >> yes. >> Elizabeth Wing, >> yes. >> Christine Best, >> don't
um do you want me to abstain? I I saw I actually >> this presentation. >> Yeah. >> Thank you, Tashab. >> So approved. >> Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate it. >> Yeah. And good luck to you. >> Thank you.
>> Yeah. >> Perfect. So for our final application tonight is that excuse me too one I'm sorry one more minute your resolution because the noticing last month and you got postpone to get back to you and it'll be >> okay
>> thank you thank you >> application number 622 17 block number 3104 lot number 16 this is the nonistributing property in Detroit Hills Park Right. This is a regulatory
correct property. >> Did somebody put >> is a contributing property district? Did you know that? >> Okay. But wait a second. This is a regulatory application.
Yeah. >> Can we have you guys sworn in? Anyone who's going to speak by our attorney? >> State your name correct and spell your last name, please. My name is Raj. >> Can you spell your last name?
>> S H A R M. >> Okay. And you are the homeowner? >> Yes. >> And I'm the architect. >> I'm sorry. >> Thomas. uh licensed architect in New Jersey
since 1988. License planner since 2010. My license is in good standing. >> Good standing. have me here before the school. >> Thank you. Please proceed.
>> Okay. This is uh 17 Minkync Road in the Shore Hills um historic district. We had couple of discussions. Uh there's
a list of things and let me start a little bit again the house. It's a one and a half story long revival. This is the existing home. It's all
was built in 1949. It was added to the uh the short house historic district as a contributing homes part of the 2022 survey that expand expanded the amount of homes that were
contributing. Um, we're doing a little We're doing a little work to the entrance. Um, fence
actual house still into the existing ground floors right here. That's going to be a actually Sorry. Right.
So that is a garden shed with a bathroom and then there's another um that represents 134 square ft of live coverage. Uh that'll bring the total to 3,721.
The permitted is 6,3 so it's about 2/3 of the allowment. Uh the other thing on that the tax records have it like 3500 square ft. Um based on the new ordinance
that would be 4185 and We're adding 753 square ft. That is all the result of adding a master bedroom in this portion
the house with the roof a little bit lower. So, we're raising we're not extending the roof. We're not increasing the height of the roof but taking Now terms of This is the lot.
The house is located about maybe 30 ft from the rear lot. There's this driveway that comes up to the court garage and that's the entrance of the
house. This is mini single. So front of the house actually faces back of the house. back in the lives. And what you see from street is
a lot of green giants first. So above this this um this gate is going to see a pillar on either side. But the fence line
behind these is going to go come up to the neighbors here and going up to the dangerous that's there. It's about 400 ft of
um I have you hand out. So it's one single package >> A1 >> says A1. >> There we go. >> And it's got Thank you.
>> You're welcome. So most of this is actually this is the new addition. Um, so this is the entrance. Two two gates power operated. >> Yeah. Yeah. You're going to be power
operated. I assume um that's the basic configuration of the fence. Uh it's actually it matches the neighbors. So it'll be one continuous fence line. Uh
the fence has really two purposes. One is they're avid gardeners and almost every important plant on the property is surrounded in chicken wire. >> Right now it looks awkward,
right? >> Well, dear most day. So this is a level of deterrent and the other thing is the house is 300 ft in the road in a dense
forest. So if you look through these There's not much you can see from the road other than this pretty well. On the other hand, it also risk
>> um Gary, I'm going to refer to you. It there's a regulation where there's no front yard fencing, >> right? How tall is that? That's eight. Six feet standard. >> Well, six feet would be six feet on the
sides, >> right? It would have to be two feet on the front. Anyway, a slice of this application is going to be going for a variance for the zone. >> Yeah. So this >> I just didn't know if you were aware
that that wouldn't be allowed in his >> virtue with the fact that the house is closed back. It violates the setback and yard. So those are two variances that we have.
And another >> from a historic standpoint, we would have to justify that your backyard. Um and this house was built later and it was intentionally facing the wrong way as it when it was
built. Um, so we wouldn't be able to support this application in zoning because first of all, a gate wouldn't be allowed and that's considered their front yard. So again, you is that part
of your application for us to approve? >> Um, the style of fences, the fence itself. >> Okay. Um >> and and just
this area is 6 ft higher than the area right on the downside retaining wall and this is another 2 ft 3 ft down. So this whole area that you're not a valley it's like
>> Yeah. But there's a retaining wall running over here. That's this neighbor's and that's think maximum is about >> 12 ft, >> right? So this whole area was original
and then all around. I'm not sure when that 12T retaining wall would have been possible prior to it was built before. >> Yeah. >> It was built when this house was
That's something we'll have to >> Yeah, we'll have to look at. Yes, honey. Um, okay. So, >> but that is the neighbors retaining. >> Yeah. >> So, it's not
>> No, but I mean again, I'm I'm saying that probably is grandfathered and that it wasn't something that was new. You're asking for a six foot new fence on the road, which >> right that's
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um Okay. So, I guess how how would we break this out then? So, we're right now just going to vote on
the new addition to the House. So Barton has a bunch of >> Yeah, >> he has a seven point here. >> Yeah, maybe maybe Matt can you go through it with us and just um >> Yeah, absolutely. >> So his first point was no one drain fiber cement sighting allowed in the
square district and smooth sighting only. >> Right. And then >> and that in the material package I spect >> the stone is another thing that he's listing and we get to that because he wanted samples and
>> No, but you'reing that's what I'm I guess I'm a little confused. >> You're replacing the size of the stone. >> Yes. all the way around the pool. right now. That's post
and we'll get into the fiber cement boards smooth the thicker Yep. >> And then simulated divided light with a space bar. I see that you have >> Yeah. >> Let's check these windows right here.
>> Detailed windows on drawings are uh Anderson drawings. >> Then I guess one question I have is on this chimney on the front of the building, that chimney right there on the top left. >> It's actually a little further.
>> Yeah. >> It's flat. It's it's coverage of each side. >> Okay. >> And it'll stay that way. >> Okay. Yeah. I was just asking u in the renderings it has it as stone but in the existing as brick. Is there any change or is there any plan to take the brick
down reputed in stone or just >> if it's possible we would like to do that because that will give a better >> Yeah. So make all the stone match. Okay. just go back sample of the stuff.
Um, so there are a couple of samples. It's a lot of different periods like >> visually with the >> Yeah. Well, and sad is >> very deteriorating.
>> So, we need to replace it way. >> Um, hang on. Matt, can you continue? I mean, >> yes. Uh so provide the commissioners with some samples. So those are right there. Uh number four, the proposed exterior and second floor renovations the existing structure are mainly in the
rear of the property in keeping with the architectural style of the house. Any specific character defining architectural features are posted. >> So to that end, the 2022 uh survey did identify a few things.
Maybe brackets were attached to the wall. Uh mostly supporting the gutters, replace those and cut sheet on that. Um and the other thing that was
mentioned was the front door. The drawings that you have that were originally submitted have a modern front. This is a twotory um entrance foyer.
And uh subsequently we kept two doors and uh the balcony below the house >> and seven uh number seven paint colors are not reviewed by the commission get that with
concern cur selects public schemes that are compatible surrounding context to create a sense of visual continuity in the district. >> So currently it's purple >> gray >> gray color >> gray >> I think it was pink and then someone had
changed it to gray before selling the house because we can see the paint coming out of that underneath. Is this more pain? How is it poly? >> The intention is to keep the color consistent.
>> I'm so confused. The color of what? Aren't you putting stone everywhere? >> No. No. The stone is only on the front side on the sides and back. >> Yeah. What? >> No. I'm just very confused about >> No, I was going to say when you're done,
am I allowed to ask? I didn't know if I >> Yeah, you can ask question. I'm just very confused about the plan. >> Um, I have a number of questions also, real quickly, let me just go down the list. So, he said no wood grain um sightings allowed. So,
you changed that. >> Um, >> or is it >> never was Yeah, it was a sample. >> Okay. Yeah, it's going to be uh painted uh flat >> and that's acceptable. Okay.
>> Um the windows are 400. >> They are 400. >> I like So we got that. >> Um the stone is this piece here and that's what you'd like to put on the front of the house, >> right?
>> Okay. And what's existing is >> uh clever >> purple. >> Okay. Comments, questions? I just had a few to clarify.
>> Uh yeah, I had a question. Um hi. I'll talk louder. Um so not an architect. Um but uh you know the original house the you know the front facade obviously it's to your comment it's very run down and I understand all the structural needs and you know all
the changes are really interesting you like with the um normally how they come out I think it adds a lot of dimension to the house. Um my my comment going back to um what Elizabeth said, this very much feels like a Cape
Cod house. It would be sitting in like Brewster, Massachusetts or you know maybe So my my concern is is that the overall feeling doesn't sit with the historic nature of this house andor the neighborhood. It has a lot of different
periods kind of like particularly um and and that's my my concern from the heavy like rod iron fence work you know um to the gate which is you know more of an LA kind of thing versus a short hills
thing because the historic districts and um just the busyiness of the front facade versus a very classical paired down almost like the botanical Cape Cod house. You know, the bow straights are extremely heavy and there's just a lot of heavy detail and like I think the big
for me would be just like looking at, you know, the tree the divide lights and then you have these um sort of casement windows in one of the other dormers. And so I I just feel like it's very busy and not in keeping with the historic nature of the neighborhood. It's not it's not a
nice pretty house sitting just somewhere else, but I I almost would like to see a lot of the dimensional stuff be done just almost like simplified down in some way. Um, and you know, going back to Liz, I think the stone is heavy on the
front facade. Changes the whole feeling of the house. >> Can I say something? >> I'm sorry. Your name, please. >> We need to swear you in. Okay. if you're going to speak and your last name >> Kumari K u M A >> and do you swear that um everything
you've said so far and that everything you will say moving forward has been the truth will be the truth nothing but the truth >> yes thank you >> so if you will look at the house the front is basically the back of the house
so the entire house which we are saying here front is back and it is not visible from the roof In fact, even from the neighborhouses, all the houses which are constructed right now, they have the evergreen uh on their fences and there is a fence going
on around my house which we are saying front but in reality is back of the house. The front tap code which you said I do not understand the design that was but yeah I mean cap code I understand that is basically the back of the house
and that is going to stay as it and that is visible from the I mean that is the side which is road side. So when we are saying fence basically we are putting the fence in the front but that is our backyard because the entire
land is at that side and the house which is facing the other way around unfortunately that is our front yard which is not visible from anywhere. So if you will look at the neighborhood, everyone has the fences in their backyard because everyone has the small
kids now. So I believe and we have a small 7year-old. The house is the driveway is broky. So he just runs up and I don't let him go down because I'm afraid that any car can hit him or he
doesn't live. So all these reason why we think that I mean for front yard and backyard is kind of a fun thing here that our entire house is other way around. So we are not changing the front which is at the road side but unfortunately entire backyard is our
front yard from the road perspective because the road is going that way. You have to go all the way up round the board to enter our house which is basically the back of the house where you see all the stones and >> and
these are all >> yeah and it's all from all side of the neighbors so the only place where we don't have paint is this side where we have the retaining wall of the liver which we were talking about and in the front I
as I said that it's a slope which goes all the way kind of the storage to down and that's where we want to put the gate so that the kid cannot go out all of the >> so again we look at this is that we are
told to keep the front of the house okay whether it's turn the whole different direction and we have houses that the front of their yards face to the side. Um, you know, some houses have, you know, two front yards
because a road connects them on in the back and also in the front. So, we really are trying to keep this house that was recognized as significant the same in the front. So, the stone would
change the appearance of the front of it. Um, so I mean that's what we're kind of fighting against, okay? Because it's our responsibility that we're looking at the front of the house, right? Can it be
recognized? It is a period of time that this was built and that was how they turned the house. So unfortunately a lot of these properties who were they were subdivided off uh house was or oriented
different direction. Okay. And I'm not really sure why someone in that period of time could unless there I would have to see something to see if the house on Highland
maybe that was the original way is important. I'd have to see all of it. Right. So >> well see. >> Yeah. So I do know that
>> okay this house right? >> Okay I have so this house so on the back of the property if you see >> on the back of our house this this house you see the tennis court. >> Yeah
>> this was the original Kora house right? You see this one? >> No it was a carriage house to the house inside it like koraorn and someone like that. Yeah, they have a facade like this. Okay, that house and this is the new construction. They made
a very big house they built in front of that house. You remember this house? >> That's not new construction. >> No, this is very new construction. >> Brand new construction. Two two or three years. >> It's a brand new construction. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Uh totally. And this house is totally on the back. So this is the one
and this is the front area and the whole house is if you look at the house like city thing the house price value of this house only the structure is $300,000 $300 in that area. Okay the house is in
totally bad condition. The only thing you can do with this house is demolish it. Right. But we are trying to see can we make it better so that at least we can keep it the house not destroy it keep it the house and make it more
livable so that we can enjoy for the long time till we like uh grow old we can live in house we we have two kids we want to give them a good life of this city so that you know uh and the why we wanted this uh gate the main object the
main thing was in neighborhood new gate has come You know in the last two years I can give you the address of the house where in the front gate has come up. New gates has come up. The one of the reason of this is if you look into it this is the down from here to here it is almost
20 ft down 25 ft down this slope is there. So my when my son rides bicycle he totally comes here. So if I I was thinking and many time it happened that he was under the car almost right. So we thought if you put a gate here it will
be a big thing that is he's riding his bicycle he's a small kid okay he will not any he wanted to put something so currently what we do is we try to put something temporary like a fence kind of things
road which we move it when he's riding his bicycle which is very painful and not going to look good as well. So we thought is it possible to get something done so that so he said he Tom suggested we have to go to the joling road because they have to approve it and so if you
see we planted all these greens they are 2 ft. So even if fence will come up it will come behind that not on the front. >> Yeah. And we are looking for a game here. And this is the back of the house. And the whole wood thing if you see the
character of the house you're talking this house is 1949 built house. Okay. It's not a like 1900 or 1800 like you know 200 year old. And the other thing this house if you see this house new new
thing is here and here. This is the front they they build it. We want to improve this area like with a better siding because the wood is totally rotten. Whatever the wood and it looks very ugly. If you come to house the only thing you say that hey you have such a
nice yard but you have such a slum house in that neighborhood that believe me that is the comment he will say. >> Believe me. When you bought the house, were you familiar that it this is a historic district? >> Contributing. >> Yeah, we were not told.
>> It was added contributing in 2022. >> Okay. And the gates that you probably didn't see in town were either already there. You're thinking the one I'm seeing that was grandfathered. >> No, no, no. I can tell you 36 or 39
road. Okay. >> They have a new gate built. Okay. I find that hard to believe, but we'd have to look. >> I can send you those pictures and the house number. >> Um, but they're really by regulation that has to go through Zoom and they're
rarely approved, right? Because And we really can't approve any of that. >> No, you can't. You're you're you're approving the aesthetics of the fence. >> Yeah. >> You're not approving whether it's there. >> Exactly. Yeah.
>> So, but what we do have is we have to preserve the front of the house no matter what orientation. If you guys remember, we've had multiple house come in front of us and they're facing the wrong direction. >> We need the front of the house minimal
minimal disturbance and repaired to the way it was. Now certainly putting back what you know what was there maybe painting it a you know a more pleasant color or whatever those are the kind of
improvements that we need to see now I don't know when the additions were put on maybe in the back of the house >> so if you see this is the front >> this is from the road front we are not touching anything >> but that's the back so remember that's the back of the house right
>> you know at at some point there There was a there was a gate here. This was the front. Here was the entrance. They blocked that instance at some point of time. And then this was the garage. You see this is the garage. >> Yeah. >> And then they made this maybe like look
uh uh I think sometime they closed this gate here. This was the gate in the front of the house. They made this as a gate. But this this was the original at some point this was the original. >> You have this historic. No, you can come and you can see
>> you will see the landing area. >> Well, I understand that we we just can't go see and see it. So there is it documented that the house was facing the other direction. >> The house was facing this side. Yeah,
>> it was toward the biggest part of the yard >> here. Yeah. >> Not the biggest part. It's like in the side. So this house, this side is the roof facing. You come all the way. This is the type where the original door was. >> Okay.
>> This is This was >> That was the extension. >> It was an extension. This This is the current. >> Okay. I'm just I can't tell by this. So, Matt, can you >> shed any light on this? Are you aware or
is Barton aware of where the front of the house >> uh when when I spoke to Barton? Uh maybe we we were confused on the front and back. Uh I can I can go back and ask him, but we we were under the presumption that
this was the back, but that that might just be a miscommunication on our part. >> And you can't prove to us today what the original front of the building was? >> I don't know. I can take a look at historic and see. >> But do you have it with you? Like
>> I do not have it with >> Okay. So, I'd like to make a suggestion. >> Yes. >> Let's not vote on this application tonight until we have all the factual information because that determines whether
we or how I think we would vote because right now >> Well, can we continue with the objections? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's good. >> Well, I think one one thing when you gave us this new packet, you've changed the uh
>> the front courtyard entrance, right, from what we had in the plans, right? >> So, we don't have these designs as planned, which I think we need to see. >> So, it might be, and I'm just being honest with you, is >> the plan hasn't changed >> on these on these drawings. They still
show the more modern entrance you're making. Now, you have ballast raids, you know, right? That's all new. That's that's all new didn't change. I mean I think it would be good to give suggestions because when you come back you make provisions on your plans because it could still get voted down
for other issues and I have another ones um I mean just for the purposes of >> but yes but understand one thing if the direction of the house >> then
so this is why I'm saying to you you can ask us vote tonight on this application or we can gather more information and make sure before we do >> one thing I know that I talked to city
when we were trying to find some of the uh blueprint of the house that if they have anything and they said that they don't but we see that there is a landing area which is in the living room and that makes sense that in that landing area they used to have the door which
was moved at some point of time in the back. Why? I do not know because the house if you will see original house was in the middle and then they have done couple of addition in the back side they have made a living room and then this side they have made a master bedroom. So
all those are kind of addition but I do not have the blueprint original blueprint where I can do. >> Okay. So but I do think that it can be located. So, and certainly Matt is that something >> we'll try to do that on the on the
colonial comments those out. >> Yeah. >> I think if the if the facing of the house changes then many of this >> is going to be like she said it'll help you. >> It will help you to understand the
direction of the house. You will make the changes based on what we've already said. If the front of the house is pointing to the neighbors, then the facade of that can only be repaired, maybe updated, that type of thing. If we
find that the front of the house is actually a different direction, again, that's only going to help in the long run. Right now, this is worst case scenario. So, and you you already have Barton's report
on what changes he would like to see made. So, I think is there anything else? >> Yeah. No, I think we could be clear. I mean, I don't think that we're maintaining the character of the house. We've kind of changed it into a house
that is not from the 1940s and colonial, right? So, we've gotten rid of the arched uh garage doors, which again is sort of a 1940s character. You know, do I think that there's any issues with adding dormers? No. But if they're in a 1940s style, they can't be in a modern
style. You know, we've added balconies that are a little heavy-handed um for any era really. Um but you know, again, they're not 1940 like So, so we're looking for you to Yes, you can make the house livable. Obviously, you saw three
other applications come. They all made additions and changes the homes, but they kept within the style of the original home and the additions were complementing the home. I think that these additions and the materials are
changing the character drastically of the home. Right? So, we're no longer looking at a at the same home at all. So, I think that's the thing is that, you know, a lot of these things wouldn't exist in a 1940s home. So, I think to be fair,
I think it it's just it's not the same home and the character of the neighborhood that you love and that you're in. So, you're trying to change the character of the neighborhood by making this house
more modern or when it's really a 1940s. It doesn't mean that it, you know, it can't be beautiful and outstanding. But this is kind of what you're in a district, a historic district. So we're
>> being mindful of >> which now 7800 78,000 square foot houses >> that replace smaller old >> I mean that was the original plan because I wanted to get this house like
all my neighbor has done if you look the house put it in the back got job brand new house side same thing if you will look at the front there is a small portion and then there is addition around that. So all the houses have this similar thing and if you will go you
will see that either the entire house was gut and a brand new house is made only a front a small portion was left in the back side kaharan house it is completely gone and there is a brand new house if you look into the front
clarification there was never a house it was only the carriage house from the other house they made it into a pool house the house that they put in front of it is brand new but they restored
>> the significantly yeah historically >> this historic house. Okay. >> So no houses to my knowledge unless they were condemned have been torn down. >> Torn down means that the entire house is
gone except the front wall of the house for a small portion. >> Well certainly they've kept the house and added on to the back of the house. That's certainly something that has been done in the historic >> only they kept the front facade and back
of the whole houses >> broken and they can expand on the back of the property. You're talking about the one right beside the side or in the front. In the front you will see the entire extension in the side. >> They they would not have been allowed to
extend the front. So there would have had to been a setback and then they expand. So it looks different from the front but they would not have been allowed to touch the original facade. So again this is these are things that we
you know this is our job is to make sure that the house the character of the house the original house remains visible and that we recognize it. So, >> so can I ask you one question simple question like you know
>> what is the main object and then if you can tell us that will help us what is the main objection >> house rock is the objection or anything else is only this is ob >> the house should look like what it was in 1940s for the most part
>> so if this house is there so if we are building it and keeping everything say only this siding >> you have you are okay with that or you feel that hey we can currently you see one there is no entrance even if you go here in the rain if you're opening the
key there is nothing to give me anything right there's nothing so you feel that hey you can so this is much better if you look into if you feel that hey something need to be changed in that suggest that hey >> what >> and that's that's all fine like what
everybody's trying to get at is is >> it's not so much the changes of the expansion to the second floor that you're doing. It's the style of the what you're doing, >> the aesthetic of it. >> So, you see, look at the garages how Elizabeth mentioned they're they're
they're curved on the top. That's a very 1940s aesthetic. You're getting rid of one of you're expanding the one. So, it's a two-car garage and now it's flat squares. Like, that's completely different in style. If this is the objection, yeah, we can keep it's not
the only no no >> we can keep the arch but I will still look for two door because when I park my car I don't do it right now. My car always stand outside because I'm afraid that I'm going to bump into something
and that's yeah we can certainly bring it up to date. Right. So this is what and your architect certainly I think knows what what we're talking about by style and all that and maybe working with Barton a little more on this
project uh he might be able to suggest some ideas too or Matt um to keep it in more but I I would first and foremost before you do anything else find out the original front of this house because that will
>> if this bad and then this is kind of back and >> right >> that may be valid whatever we have present. >> So can I can I say that we really besides style we've mentioned >> the you know and hopefully that you can
work with Barton and understand that piece. I don't want to vote on it. I I would like to move it to either next month or whenever you're ready instead of vote it down or I'm not sure. I'm getting the feeling that it might not
pass tonight and just hang on to it until we have additional information. Maybe you talk to your clients about some of the changes and the period of time and that type of thing >> once we find out where the front of the house is. >> What happens if it fails?
>> If it fails. >> Mhm. >> Um I don't I don't see how it could. I think working and we vote it down. can come back. >> Yeah, you can come back. But what I'd like to do is carry this application so
you don't have to renotice and you don't, you know what I mean? Let's let's just keep this active. >> A lot of people go through this process. They come back. Yes. >> It helps you a lot. >> And the other question I have that how
do we get those original blueprint because this is the story coming right? So you should be having the change which was done originally. We could not get anything in the city house. So how we are going to get that one because that that was there for sure. We can see the
entire footprint of that that there was a road and originally it was facing south here it was not this direction where right now >> 197. >> Yeah. So if you come if you visit I can show you. You can see from your eyes
>> pictures. Yeah. I can get all the questions. No. >> Don't you can I just interrupt because I had meaning to say this. Don't you have like have you gone like when you bought the house did you go to like the basement in New York and like pull up all the deed records on the property and like because usually they have you know
the surveys attached and you'll see the unfortunately there's no surveys. They have the survey companies listed that you get that. >> No this is 2018 survey. So in 2018 survey it will not show up. No, but you but you didn't did you go to the courthouse and research it because
>> Yeah, I went to the city office. I >> No, no, no. The city office won't have I'm talking about the New York count New York downtown courthouse. They have all the records from Essex County properties and they'll have all the sales and transactions and who was sold to the survey. That's I was just suggesting
that because then you could maybe prove >> like I I just want to understand more what other objects you have like you know Okay. >> One thing if you can tell me what else. Yeah, >> I'll tell you. I mean, I think she doesn't want
>> I don't want to architect that understand the style of 1940s. And if he's saying that he's able to do that, then >> they hired a professional to do that. I think we've given that as you know, like we're not here to design somebody's
house. here to kind of give >> and what we're giving you now. If the direction of the house is different, it's not it's not going to make a difference. Yes. We don't know what part of this is significant part of this
because we don't even you're saying that this may not be the front of the how. So, let's confirm that. Okay. So, and just to get back to your question earlier about the consequence. So typically in a board such as this um if
an application gets denied you have to come back with a completely different design you know it's substantially different um so you know whether or not that you know that specific stop will I'd have to confirm but in the abundance of caution until I could double check
and make and it would be better you know because if you if your stop you know from coming back it would have to be a completely different project >> 6,000 foot house. >> Oh,
if you guys want to take a minute to talk about it, you know, yourself, but my suggestion is that we postpone this with more information and not deny it. But we'll let you if you guys want to step out for a minute, we'll
>> one question like I have. If you deny it for example, what is the course that hey you made a correct decision a wrong decision something what we feel is there any process to listen to our views because we want to make it this house a
livable house you know that is our main thing if you come to our house I I'm free to you know give you a tour of my house if you come it >> then you can see the picture >> think think like your own house and say what will you do not me if you say that
hey Rajes this is what I will do this to make this house whoever is the expert I'll be so happy to hear >> so Rajes we are not our we our role is very similar right we are not allow we are not visiting houses we're not like
she said we are not trying to tell you how to design the houses we are just trying to follow the rules and the guidelines given to us it's not you know we are not doing anything that is we are helping you right we are not trying to
stop you we are helping you so just like they are saying take time go back get the records to help you and then work with your architects work with Barton right they will guide you this
it'll help you to go back and do some more research support your design come back >> the last question which I have if you are saying this is front of my house do I need to only keep this portion because this is the original portion or do I
need to care about all of this and can I then go into back I can extend it up two story double story larger height and everything I keep this as is >> first of all >> right I I think I do um we'd like to see
which what period things were added it on. Okay. So, again, this is going to be really helpful for us to figure out what this house and how it stood certainly working with Barton. Okay. And he is our consultant. He's not, you
know, he's there to help you. You don't pay for Barton. Lucky. He's there to guide you on what, you know, could happen here. And not just one way. There could be multiple different ways. So, give you more of an idea of what that
might be. Again, if it makes you feel any better, I know at least two people on this board who took a historic house like this and they didn't get everything they wanted, right? But they worked within the boundaries and have beautiful
homes and no regrets. and having two architects working for you, guiding you in that direction really helps you, you have options. So, that's what we're asking of you. Um,
this house can't be torn down because it's in a historic district. Um, so we would love to see something created as it's intended. And I think I don't think we've ever heard anyone that
we've worked with who said it made it better. Okay, they love it even more. It was more creative. So, if that's helpful at all, we're here to help you. This particular design as it stands right
now, I can't even begin to comment on because I'm dead in my tracks without knowing what direction this house was actually steady. Okay. And what was added what? So, we would be able to get the year something
was added on to it. We'll see what was the original house. So, these are the things that will help all of us. I think so. >> Do you guys want to talk for a minute?
>> Well, that see all the time. >> Our biggest concern is if we don't find anything old. Okay. Then who will decide which one is front of our house and which one is back of our house? Because
one of the thing rules I have seen in the city, you cannot make your garage facing the roadside. >> Right. >> Right. And this is facing the roadside. So this this is facing the roadside. That means that
the back of the house is the front yard. If that rule applies then it means that this is the fact. >> Okay. >> Just can I just say I don't think we're here to argue like I know but that's already there. So it's grandfathered in. We're not ch we're not telling people to
change how their houses are. I don't think we're here to >> argue points with you. We're basically here to enforce a secretary of interior standards in the town for historic districts. We don't have we're not the zoning board. We're not any of those things. So, I think basically what we've
told you is we don't think the design that you've come in with is representative of the period of this home. And at this point, we don't know what the front of the house is. I mean, to be honest, I think we probably
wouldn't even accept this in the back. We would recommend to people even if this was the back of your home to we would probably give you suggestions. Whether we have governance to be able to change that or not is another thing. But we definitely would have commented on it
and people often take our suggestions. Uh you know just in that they understand that it's making the home more appealing and even you know honestly more salailable in the future because it's part of a district. So
I I don't know that arguing into the night is helpful at this point. I think to be honest the design of this is fairly far off of what we would be expecting to see that I don't think we can pin one or two things for you. I
just think that it's not really keeping the style of the house. So I think that's that's our dilemma here, right? And we have limitations of what we're allowed to do. >> I I agree with that, but I also want to believe that the information is out
there. Obviously, it was added as something of significance in the period. So, there has to be something out there that represents that. So, I think we're just missing some pieces here and we
we'll we're going to work with you here. You know, you're part of the team. You live in this district. We're we're here to help you and support you. So again, I'm going to ask would you like us to vote on this now or would you
like to come back to us with more information and us help you get more information? What I mean by that is our consultant Matt Barton work with your architect and you and try to figure out the pieces.
>> McDonald is very very good. You guys should work. It will help you. >> You didn't raise this objection, right? Otherwise, we would have not done. >> Yeah. Because the front and back is >> you know the thing. Yeah. >> Yeah. We'll talk to
>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you'd like us to carry this application? >> Yes. And will you let us know if it will be next month or >> Well, so why don't we carry to December 4th >> um with no further notice and then if we
don't move forward with it next month, we'll >> you know see if we can come up with another hearing date and we'll at that time. >> Okay. Okay. So officially carried with no further notice to the December 4th hearing. >> Yes. >> Perfect. Thank you so much.
>> Thank you. We're almost done. >> I'm gonna quickly go through. >> Okay. Um, first of all, this is all project. I'm chair. We're still trying to figure out some
out education. Um certainly uh the short bill association has uh mentioned asking Barton to come and talk about historic uh preservation.
Um I think it's a good idea uh so that anyone in the community can come. Um, so that might be one of uh the events or I'm going to work with the historic association and see if we can get them
scheduled for the New York to talk about historic preservation, no community, you know, no individual houses but in general. So, uh, I think it's long overdue and it's something that we probably need to do more of with the
various associations in town. So, people are more familiar with what we do because it can be very confusing. I've been doing this now for 19 years and I'm very confused by myself still. So, I'm not sure anybody's going to get it in an
hour and a half program, but but we'll we'll try our best. Um, as uh just so you know, the New Jersey Transit Bridge Project, Dave, can you just talk on a TC level about uh that it
did pass, but they wanted discussion of some sort. >> Yeah, the the you know, they authorized the expenditure of the money department to to do the study. Um but they are looking for um you know a public
presentation on you know why you want it why it's valuable to have those designated or partially designated. Well, so there's still more conversions that they >> um >> and I think that's important that that happened,
>> right? So maybe with the new changing of the guard, maybe you can let us know if there's a time that works, deck, because you are our expert on it and I'm more than happy to >> Yeah. And I know that they you guys meet next week, the Wednesday's next meeting.
>> Well, the the meetings are Tuesday nights. every other Tuesday. Of course, this month there's just one. I think you'd be into December and then you'd be to next year. >> So maybe waiting till next year or will it
>> Well, you have approval already from the TC. So why would we not do it? >> Well, there were people in the audience. Well, I think because >> Yeah, and there was a member of the TC too was who was who wanted to there were two members of the TC wanted to provide
more information. Okay. >> Um but but what what I'll do is when you when you folks you could look at the schedule or I could shoot the schedule. >> Um if you pick a a Tuesday night that works for you. >> Yeah. I just made it's been like can you
come next week? >> Yeah. Okay. So So I'll shoot the next >> and or tag both Zach and I and then >> Yeah. um >> cuz he knows far more about it than I do. >> Perfect.
>> Um so, next discussion is on a neighborhood. I think I might have mentioned this. Um the Woodfield District is right off of Parson and Hill Road. Anyone who hasn't seen it, which I'll be honest with you, I hadn't really
paid attention. Um, and I was invited to talk to the neighborhood about designation. That's the brochure that you have on that. And I apologize. I went to Staples and it's
it's stapled on the rock. >> I was That was confusing. >> Yeah. But Catherine was very grateful because she's left-handed. So, >> finally something designed for me. Something I designed it just for her. Um, if you haven't ever driven in this
neighborhood, it has some amazing homes. >> I have Are all these houses? >> Still there? >> Almost all of them are still there. >> The originals. So, >> I like the price range.
>> 52K to 85K. >> So, let me tell you the most amazing discovery. I also gave you a map. So it kind of shows you where it was as if you can read the fine print. I highlighted or I tried to
now and you also notice it says J Taylor, right? So, as we started digging in, I wanted to be prepared for this coffee to talk about historic. Uh, the historic society had an amazing
discovery that they never knew where the Taylor House was, the one that gave the park. So, that second Oh, sheet that you have there, you can read it, but I found it in interesting on the second floor.
There's the master bedroom with a bath, the lounge, service quarters, the third floor, it has a gymnasium. I mean, this house was humongous. And
>> chances are that Mrs. Taylor, after Mr. Taylor passed away, she was in this house. >> Uh, the whole property was hers from the map. He sold it to this Mr. uh Bowers.
>> They tried to sell the house on its own, but it was probably during some depression. Something happened during that period of time. It was too big. Nobody wanted to take that on. So, the house was eventually demolished. >> Um,
she moved away. I think she lives in Kansas or she did move to Kansas or somewhere like that. and sold this property. Now, the Bowers uh Bill J Bowers uh was a uh real estate developer
and he to this day this business is still in existence. So, and it went down from family member to family member to family. So, this is pretty interesting. It was amazing discovery. So, what
I'm asking and they got the neighborhood together, the original neighborhood, and they put a petition together, which this is a first for us because we're usually trying to designate properties. And so
when they brought the petition to us then um we needed to do a more uh in-depth study. So, what I'd like to do is take a vote today to have Barton
actually justify everything that's written here and put it in one packet so they can the neighborhoods then can present it to the TC. >> But he's preparing a nomination report. He's preparing a nomination report, but
we don't really have we just have to show that yes, it's a period of time historically significant. It's not driven by us, it's driven by the neighborhood. that. So is there a standard that we
have to meet either from secretary of interior committee like what is the standard we apply to decide whether or to recommend to the CC reg. >> Yeah. Is there just some standard we
have to say like it's historically significant or like is there any language anywhere that says this is what the standard we have to meet to designate something as historic, >> right? I think that's what the neighborhood's
asking right now is this is they believe it's historic and they're asking for us to do a deep dive to prove that this is significant in our town and usually there's documentation
of whether it's at the state level or in our local society. We we didn't do a huge deep dive. This was easy to find and we already are going, "Wow, this is kind of like a diamond here." That was probably mentioned in the original
um you know, properties that we needed to they were formed communities. Uh we do know some of the architects uh because only because people brought documentation that we know there might
be a Mueller house in there that is also in the Ningham desperate. Uh so what they did is they also this Bowers recruited famous architects and it's kind of like a hidden gem. So
we don't know a lot about it yet. >> Yeah. But we will with Barton's report. >> So and the ordinance actually does list specific criteria. Yeah. Um so one or more following attributes the character interest or value as part of the
development heritage or cultural characteristics of the township, state or nation or association with events that have made significant contribution to the broad patterns of our history or association with the lives of p persons significant in our past or embodiment of
the distinctive characteristics of a type, period or method of construction, architecture or engineering or identification with the work of a builder, designer, artist, architect or landscape architect whose work has influenced the the development of the township, state or nation, or embodiment
of elements of design, detail, material, or craftsmanship that render an improvement architecturally significant or structurally innovative unique location or singular physical characteristics that make a district or landmark an established or familiar visual feature or the ability or
potential ability to yield information important to prehistory or history. So any one of those >> I say I say that neighborhood hits it right on all those. I mean walking through it. >> How many houses are in the neighborhood?
>> Um I think there are 50. >> How many of the residents are interested in applying for? >> Um I think there's 40 something on the market.
Um, and that doesn't mean that, you know, people aren't interested. Either they weren't, you know, located or they weren't available for the petition. So, again, that would be a legal procedure down the road. But first of all, for us,
it was about trying to figure out if this was something historically significant. And again, this is driven by the actual community itself. um as I guess houses were starting to uh
come in and people were tearing down some significant homes. So this is what drove I think the neighborhood to kind of protest that. Uh so if we could tonight I I'd like at least it's like a
report again for for Barton and certainly we will be um in the loop but because this is driven by the community um they have the option to push this forward directly to
the TC. So what steps do they go through now that the residence has requested for it now bought and goes through the review submits it then what what are the sequence of events that happen before this becomes a story >> then I think do you do you know this is
this is very rare I think it's only happened two other times in our state where a neighborhood has actually come together >> so >> so unfortunately your ordinance actually it it it's it's a little bit inconsistent. So the ordinance says that
neighbors can recommend but um only the town council or this commission can push forward with the actual you know the actual application for designation. Um so you know one or the other has to say okay we want to designate this. So they
do the nomination report um for the historic district and then there's a review not there's notification public hearing public reports um you know so it >> so is that so committee have the ability to do that or does the township committee actually have
>> so this says um says the commission has the right to push forward with the nomination report for the historic landmark or district but it would document. >> Yeah. >> So essentially this will be the
nomination step. >> Yeah. Getting a report together. >> Is this the is this the step to get the report first before we nominate? >> Well, I don't know that we >> but we have to meet that standard. >> Right.
>> The residents could go directly. the residents could go exactly what he said, >> but I think well the township committee I would think but I would think the township committee would care about what we thought. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I can't speak for all five
people or the new people, right? um either or potentially people. But um yeah, I I think I think the TC, at least in my mind, would want this board to look at it >> and say that because you're the experts,
you know, the real experts in the historic stuff. >> But she also says only we can recommend even though the residents ask for it, like the audience, >> the residents could go to like the town coun, they can go and and request it, but they can't just do a nomination
themselves >> themselves. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But the nomination also has to go to the state. Like we're not like we're doing a report >> locally. Well, it's >> locally.
Oh, it just gets locally designated and then state has to approve it or how does >> it's not a >> so >> and it's just a question or how does that work? >> Well, basically it's just one.
>> No, I mean it's identifying, right? And it is a historic resource. >> But when we recommend him to write Yeah. Who's paying? >> Is that where we come in? >> Yeah. That is that is our job. I mean,
our job is to locate these or >> pay. Yeah. >> Okay. >> And again, I think >> what drove this even more is how quickly some of this information came across. So, how can we not support the neighbors
in kind of moving forward on this? >> Yeah. >> So, um that's really what I'm asking for is to >> to let Barton move forward on this. I think it's amazing what I've read and I gave you what I
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Those like levels of historical parts of this could be where the tailor tailor are from like that's just in itself. So like historic >> and the fact that they never knew where this >> Mrs. Taylor's house was.
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's because they own so much land. >> Yeah. >> That they never knew where that house stood. >> It's not technically part of old holes, right? Is it? Or is it attached to old holes? Like the is is the good look there. Is it there?
>> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, I know. I'm just asking. I'm not a little still literate. >> No, no, no. And if you look at the old map in here, it's kind of cool. I mean, it it's very I love it's it's such a beautiful area and like just I mean all
those houses have those like amazing lided glass windows or some I mean the some of the brick work and the mortar work of some of those houses. I mean mixed with the tutors. I mean it's pretty amazing area. It's you know and all the lot sizes are really beautiful. That's the biggest thing I've noticed is
how large and lots they haven't subdivided it out. >> And hasn't built the house there yet. >> There actually are houses some really beautiful infiltr.
>> So this this neighborhood it was it's funny because the brochures that you see they were great marketers. This >> Oh yeah. Yeah, >> the date of that doctor. >> Um I think it's 1924 is what I thought I saw.
>> Because they talk about the Lacuana um train being electrified in 1930. >> Yeah. And it only took 35 minutes. If you guys look at this map, >> so this must be like late 1920s. >> Good time for development. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Just like Fox Road, there's little roads that connect in. There's a couple of towns there. >> Yeah. But that that's not part of >> No, this is very dis really distinctive. And as you can see this original map on >> I don't know it
>> isn't one of those audio tours walking tours of this sort. >> No, >> I'm just curious. >> I don't think so. That's what was so amazing. But some somewhere in our documentation it has to have talked about this. But I'm also not surprised
because they were amazed that they finally found where the Taylor house was. So, >> it would been off the radar for some time. >> Um, which is kind of >> also very exciting. So, oh, >> so quickly, um, if you don't mind, I'm
not trying to rush, but we have some resolutions we just need to vote on before we leave. So, I'd like to move forward, and I can make the motion or someone else. I'll I'll make a motion that uh we move
forward or we have Barton move forward on a designation report for the Woodfield Short Hills. Do I have a second? >> Elizabeth second.
>> What is the second? Okay. >> Alison Canfield. Yes. >> Zachary Davis. >> Yes. >> Robert Frank. Oh, sorry. Brad Jenkins. >> Yes. >> Gary Rosen. >> Yes. >> Elizabeth Winga. >> Yes. >> Christine Best. >> Yes. Bank test.
>> Yes. >> Perfect. >> So, real quickly and then we'll get you out of here. We have uh because of the notices and why we didn't have a meeting. >> Oh my gosh, my arms weren't long. um we didn't have a meeting last month because
of it, but we're going to go through and Catherine and I will let take over from here. >> Okay. So, um I have prepared some resolutions. Um I don't know. Okay. I guess I do I need to read them
all through. >> Oh, I don't I just think which one you're talking about and if any word changes for me. How was that? >> Okay. Um All right. So for application 518 51 Chestnut Street, um I revised
what I had prepared earlier um excuse me to reflect any additional um exhibits that were prepared tonight and add the names of the people that testified um in the
whereas clauses on the first page and in on the second page. Um I confirmed the conditions of approval um you know with a comment that although colors are not
you know you can't make a decision about colors there is an encouragement to select color schemes that are compatible with neighborhood um and that the bulk of the work in the rear of the h it should happen at the rear of the house. So that's staying. Um
architectural construction documents need to be submitted and that's also a condition of approval. Um and then if there's any changes that they want to make to the project, they
need to submit. And if it's minor, um then it can be it can go through the uh two members of the commission to collaborate to discuss about discuss the minor changes otherwise it need to come
back otherwise it's substantially the same as provided earlier okay so I'd like make a motion um on application number 618 the resolution of memorialization
um as Catherine just stated Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Allison Campfield, >> yes. >> Zachary Davis, >> yes. >> Brad Jenkins, >> yes. >> Gary Rosen, >> yes. >> Elizabeth Winga,
>> yes. >> Christine Best, >> I I didn't see the things. I mean, it sounds good to me because I saw the I mean, no, I saw I actually read the documents. I mean, so I'm fine with that one. Yes. Thank you.
>> Yes. >> Okay. Application 619 um is essentially the same as prepared earlier. Um just confirming that Matthew Rosenbound
was the party that testified tonight. Um, I added in that he confirmed that the materials will mimic the existing materials on the house. Um, that the pickle bar court is more of an outdoor
sports platform that may include a basketball hoop. Sound of mitigation has been discussed with neighbors. Um, and the neighbors were advised about the pickle ball court that is sort of an out more of an outdoor sports platform. Uh
they've agreed, the applicant has agreed to noise reducing paddles and a specific type of ball that has less sound. Um and the outdoor sports platform will be located at the rear of their
property. There will be no lighting, so it will only be used during the daytime and storm water management will be addressed with the engineering department through permitting. Um he also confirmed that the sound from the television in the is it um will be deadened by the solid wall
that it's mounted on and the sound bar will be directed toward the courtyard. Um conditions are listed that all exterior finished material selections will match the existing residential structure. additional landscape plantings to be
included to minimize visibility um from adjacent properties and provide additional layering element. Pickle ball court has to be located deeper in the rear yard which they agreed to. Um proposed exterior renovations to be at the rear of the house and in keeping
with the architectural style style of the existing residence and that they must take the noise mitigation steps um to make sure that the neighbors aren't disturbed. um or as or disturbed as little as possible. Um and then all the other standard
conditions it did that include uh construction drawings because I don't think we have those. >> Yes. So yeah, it does include Perfect. >> Great. So, I'd like to make a motion uh for
to for application number 619, the resolution of memorialization with all of the changes made from Captain that we we just heard. I have a second. >> One more, guys. Bear with us. No more.
All right. And applications. >> Oh, yes. Sorry. >> Oh my gosh. >> Allison Canfield. >> Yes. >> Zachary Davis. >> Yes. >> Brad Jenkins. >> Yes. >> Gary Rosen. >> Yes. >> Elizabeth Wanga. >> Yes.
>> Benesh. No. Christine wasn't here. Are you? >> Yeah. I wasn't I was bank. >> Yes. >> Last one. All right. Application 620 for 67 Myrtle Avenue is essentially the same. Um it was revised as provided
earlier. It was revised to reflect who testified. Um, and that I updated it to add an additional paragraph outlining the four additional
exhibits that were provided tonight. Um, and it includes conditions that the applicant provides site drawings indicating how the two-car garage
pavement will be expanded and what landscaping needs to be used to mitigate its appearance. Reduce the Oh, sorry. Um the roof above the
um my notes garage. >> Yeah, it was the the roof above the garages. They were going to do standing steel aluminum in a lighter color. >> Um sorry standing scene. >> Yeah, standing.
Oh, sorry. I meant standing scene. Sorry. Um, okay. Again, although paint colors are not reviewed by the commission, they're encouraged to select color schemes that are compatible. Architectural construction documents are to be submitted to the commission. Um,
and then if there are changes to the project if they're minor, they can go to two members of the commission. Otherwise, they have to >> Thank you. Okay. Okay. So, I'm going to make a motion to approve application number 620, resolution of memorialization.
Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Allison Campfield, >> yes. >> Zachary Davis, >> yes. >> Brad Jenkins, >> yes. >> Gary Rosen, >> yes. >> Elizabeth Winga, >> yes. >> Chlo, >> yes.
>> Okay, perfect. Is there a way we can only get 11 bye? >> There's no >> there's no deception. >> This concludes our meeting this evening. So I move to adjurnn