Call this greetings to order. Uh we read the opening public meeting statement in accordance with section five of the opening meetings act chapter 231 public law 1975. Be advised that amended notice of this meeting was made by posting on Baltimore board town hall and observing the officially designated newspaper
notice stating that this meeting would take place at the board of education building 434 mil at 7:30 p.m. on April 9th 2026. Uh I'm Zach Davis on the fair chairfield
that's not here tonight. Uh first we'll take a roll call. Allison Canfield, Zachary Davis >> here, >> Robert Franle, Brad Jenkins >> here, >> Gary Rosen >> here, >> Justin Sin, Elizabeth Winga, Christine
Best >> here, >> Ray Kalcano. >> All right. Thank you. First order is to uh approve meeting minutes from our January 22nd uh meeting that was the uh special meeting of the district. Um
hopefully review them. I was one present. So all those that were present comments. All right. Then motion to accept the meeting minutes as uh as we've reviewed. All in favor?
>> Yes. Yes. Okay, >> those are good to move forward then. Uh there are no memorializations at this point and then we'll move right into old business which is application number 625. This is 62 Western Drive block 2205
lot 7 uh contributing property in the short park historic district. Nick and Rachel Garrett applicator application to reconstruct the house addition and other associated exterior site improvements etc. Yeah.
>> Why not? Please uh have sworn in. Yeah. >> Okay. Um so are you both going to be providing testimony? >> Okay. So if you could state your names for the record um spelling your last name, please. >> Uh Rachel Garrett. G A R R E G T G T and
first name R A C H K A E L. Daniel Dubet, D U B I N E T. >> Okay. Um, and Mr. Dette, you um, what is your relationship to the application? >> I am the architect for the project.
>> Okay. Um, all right. Well, let me swear you guys in first. Um, do you swear or affirm that the testimony you will present this evening will be the whole troop? >> I do. >> No. >> Okay. Um, Mr. You said you're an architect. Are is your are you licensed in New Jersey?
>> Licensed in New Jersey >> and your license is in good standing. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um do you hear more from him? >> Yes. >> So accept accept your testimony as an architect. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Please proceed. >> All right. Well, I just want to say
first of all, good evening and thank you all for taking your time to like discuss our proposal this evening. Um, I just wanted to start start by saying that we really appreciate the commission's guidance and feedback throughout this entire process, which we've been more
than happy to incorporate into the work, and we're really excited about where we are with our latest plans. Um, on a personal level, it's been a very fun and educational to learn much more about the history of our home and getting discussed with Alison Barton along the
way. specifically. Thank you both for your time and collaboration. Even going over to the Shore Hills Light Museum with Shel there and kind of getting all the documents from our home and seeing pictures has been really cool and fascinating throughout this process. Um
Danny uh can walk with you through tonight with some of the specifics um in a minute uh of what we incorporated from all your feedback that we received at the informal meeting and made explicit adjustments um to the feedback. Uh we
believe this latest design respects and adds to the historic character of our home and to the neighborhood. Our goal has always been to preserve what makes the house special while making thoughtful updates that allow it to function for our family long term. Um,
which incorporates my three young children and my husband and also my uh mother who just moved in recently with us um from Colorado. Uh we're looking forward to walking through the plans and hearing your feedback. Thank you.
>> Pass it over. >> Thank you. actually uh just saw a little bit of my thunder which was again to thank everybody truly it's been a journey and an architectural attorney both from trying to solve the needs of
the client and then the historic preservation commission's uh guidance on the design um primarily I'm a residential architect I do a lot of work in town um and this is a great opportunity to work on a
historic home numbered home of 25 and uh I think most of us have got a chance to see it when we did the formal meeting. I I may see one new case. Um, but I guess I would like to move you fairly quickly through this presentation because
there's a lot to get through and I know you have um a busy night. And I guess the goal, if I may say this out loud, the goal for us, we need some barriers. You need several barriers.
in several things and and and I think and I truly believe and and I know the Garretts are very happy and excited about the outcome of how this turned out. There was and there are evolutions that do not require variances
at all satisfy the criteria for historic. So here we are this quandry of and and through this development let's say initially we had this design that didn't need a variance threecar attached garage
wonderful but it was a typical two-story addition to a home that just didn't give homage or homage to to what we are learning and as we get through this process is is how special this home is.
So this design does however it triggers variances. So I think that's a big conversation that we will have um as we move through this thing. So rather than maybe getting bogged down in which which I did, I I spent a dormant amount of time coming up with what I thought was
the right massing for the home, the right windows for their home, the right materials for the home and all that obviously is somewhat secondary to the overall concept. So, one of the things after the presentation would be like, okay, well, is this something we can
approve tonight with the condition that because there may be moldings that need to be adjusted, maybe windows that need to be talked about, lighting, but obviously those things don't impact the variance and the variance process for us obviously, you know, it's going to take
several months. So within that time if it's possible I'm just throwing it out there that there's that on the table only because we've been doing this for very long it we got a lot of hurdles to climb. So tonight might be the first hurdle and
the variance might be the second and then I think it once we get through that it' be very easy I believe with the guidance of everybody here that we can come up with the right windows registration. So that being said, let me take you through um the project.
Brief history of the house. Designed by an architect named James Lloyd Brown 1880. He was hired directly by Stuart Hardore. It was designed for a retreat summer retreat home and uh I'm going to call it a spec home, but it was
obviously built to be sold. It was commissioned by Stuart Hutcher. It's passed on uh many owners over the years. I'm not quite sure what owner we are. I'm going to probably say about five owners have passed through this
home. There are two significant renovations that have happened over the years that we can document. I may have done something before, but the most significant one was done in 1969. Was not done well. They actually degraded the home
to a degree. And I I have some photographs that I I'll take you through um really quickly. This is just fun mapping that we've discovered. So this is one of the early early maps of of the area
and the sorry here. So the footprint remains there were at the time when it was built there were not a minute or maybe I think too much >> um but basically the the home
is still there. the footprint is like nothing's really been changed and there have been some minor additions to the home over the time but this is the site back in the early 1900s 1890 and then as we move to one of the sand maps in 1950s
I think this is how that property been subdivided and a little brief history of some of the additions renovations primarily in the 60s since this as far back as we could Well, there were some uh additions
and renovations to the house. This is to the rear of the home. So, someone had added this uh one-story addition to the back. Looks like they changed out some windows. They obviously painted the siding, added the deck. And this,
let me take you a step back. This is the house in the 1880s. We got lucky. We have a great photograph. And other than the color and some details, primarily this is how the house looks today.
>> And this is another view of it. And so we drew a lot of references obviously style. This is considered a English domestic shingle style home that
has a very eclectic ornamentation. So, it's uh I like the the word eclectic because there just seems to be a lot of different stories that create this house. Um there's some consistencies that kind of
uh normalize it, but for the most part, there's some unique, fun, exciting details that happen um on certainly the exterior. And so, obviously, as we move through the design, we want to not copy,
but be inspired by So, uh, 1969, this is the side of the home. And this will all make sense, I get when I start to show you some threedimensional imagery of the home. Um, then there was this really crazy edition. This is a small edition that we
see in the back. This is the side of the house. Um, this was done in again 1969 and they built this garage. Luckily in 2000 somewhere about there uh the steward of the home
knocked down the garage and they replaced it with this beautiful twocar detached garage and did some updating and I think there may have been a board that's in place with this application back in 2000.
So certainly they were able to bring some of the charm that was lost in the 60s or over time back and basically I think in the 2000s they added this kitchen extension one story kitchen
extension and did a lovely job of uh bringing in brick, bringing the stone trying to defend the trans and in the back of the home.
Significant changes. They took the onetory edition that was done in the late60s and it look nicer. They added some windows, some moldings. They also added this. They took down the deck and added a a very sturdy deck.
um as a result of this project, we'd like to remove that deck. Uh we'll be keeping that one story edition. And so now the project and let me run you through the concept of our
project and obviously this is a to update modernize the home. We would like to have a third car garage. So, we're going to leave the existing two and a single a bay to that. Um,
and then the back of the home. Um, like I said, there were other places to build to do, uh, but we decided and with the guidance of board put the addition toward the rear. And so, what we have is a twotory addition to the rear of the home. And the trick that makes this work
um that we struggle which is to connect to the home as delicately and sensitively as we can. So on the first floor it connects to the 1969 edition. Um and on the second floor which gets exciting because in the
late60s it was the onetory edition. So how do we get a twotory edition to work and function and flow to the second floor? uh and and I'll take you through the floor plan, but I'd like to show you how we connect them. The second floor is easy. The first floor is easy to imagine how we made a connection the second
floor and it's also when I show you three dimensionally how we did this both surgically. We created a small ridge that touches the roof line that was uh manipulated in
in the late60s. And so our massing >> turns out very interestingly because it's separated from the main group and I I think that was well received um by the
commission and so we pursued that this design obviously this design then now people were taking advantage of the rear yard forces of rear yard setback about 70 ft and at the end I think I'll run through the seven ways associated doing
this application. Um, and having done a lot of variance work, I tried to do all the variances to be not egregious. Certainly, some of them are a little bit much, but nothing that I certainly had to come through
before. This is the roof plan. So, this is the roof plan of the existing house, and this is the roof plan of the proposed. And I think um now would be a good time to to to show
you some threedimensional imagery of how we do this. And this is very thin. This is the back of the house. So what we get a chance to see is um the existing home
and how we make this connection. So what we have here is um this is the exhibit and breakfast room. It currently has several windows, but we're going to keep the this corner and then we'll start our second floor. So, that's our connection to the first
floor. And on the second floor, um this corner is maintained at this this breezeway walkway bridge takes us and connects to the second corner that sits above that. Um since we're staring at this previously we had um presented for
our informal meeting this same floor plan but with a slightly different massing. So we've taken the advice of the from the members of the board who felt like it was not as loose and not as fun and not as
centered to their home. thought I had and and I knew first it was concept second is aesthetics massing. So one of the I'll just show I'll just take you through what I thought was get my head
into to become the original architect. What makes this house unique and special and to me it's the roof line. So, it's a simple roof line, but it's so simple that the the geometry, the simple geometry, the
triangle really reads very proud, clear, simple without a lot of ornamentation. And so, to me, that was a theme. Oh, and then what they did, which is quite interesting, is they created an overhang through this gate and you don't see that
often. So, I think that and that's a theme that happens. And I think that helped unify the house like the strong roof line. Then another uh interesting analysis on my part I think was that the
second floor reads very clearly. Uh so you get the strong horizontal layers. So you get the first floor, the second floor. Now you have this hat that sits on top and it's ever so slightly detailed so it sticks out beyond the
second floor. And then if there's a clear delineation of materials, then there's the fun eclectic story that happens which you know you you will have um some centering of things but then you have a celebration
of something special. So this happens to be where the interior staircase is. And so you get this artfully done, unique, special window. And then you know then you just have some I'm going to call it quirkiness, right? Um and again this
simple very geometric triangle. So simple forms and almost like a popery of not so serious elements. Um, and so our plan obviously I'll take you through that. I almost want to save all that for
later and kind of get to the big picture. I think that's um I do know that we as a as a team we could get through what you guys think is appropriate in terms of what windows we're certainly after that. So um let me
take you back to the 3D. This is really about the set. Um this is a view from the front of the house. So this is the existing home and it remains untouched as a result of
us. The only thing that happened um again in 2000 they created this kitchen. It's one story and they manipulated this roof line to make a master bathroom. So our we're going to just kind of simply like I said come into the second floor
and our massing. It's similar but separated and it's a wonderful looking collage of architectural elements that complement the house that distract the house. That's that view. This is just a view of
the garage. So we're going to the existing garage has a gable roof that goes this way. Logically the extension the gable roof will turn the other way. When I look at the elevations, just so you know, this roof line is five feet
lower than the minimum roof line. So that I know is something that's sensitive to the existing architecture. And then this is this is this maybe shows us some of the masses. So this is a a very
simple geometric roof over the addition and I've stylized it to be somewhat similar in methodology of how the main house works but without dormers with a lower ridge line
that and then of course some fun artistic renderings of what we do have. Um and again this is our addition in the back here. And this is our garage here. And then we've created this um open
pergola to join the two um to kind of okay pardon me. Um it also gives us somewhat of a covering. It's not a hard covering, but it'll also, you know, I just think it kind of creates this beautiful state by feeling um with this
ornamentation of the of the decorative part. And again, like I said, we can get into the leads and I can get into how I thought let's say this, for example, this is the rear elevation. So again,
bring this in have a random set of windows. Have a this is an internal space that deserves something special. This is a basement living room. And again, I think I've captured the looseness of like of the main house.
That was a big discussion we had at the informal meeting of how to do that. And um this is a nice view of we got some terracing happen. This is the back garage. Um,
this is the lower level. So, we will um step down to this patio, get down to this patio, down this patio. There's a pool here that we discussed last time. So, this was
an element that we would really like to have. It's a balcony. about kind of summer retreat vacation uh that this house was originally designed for summer retreat and it might be a good time I mean I
could certainly get into the we have um the cut sheets of everything um it might be a good time to get into that let me just briefly we have a landscape plan we plan on removing uh I think it's about three trees so by code. We need six
placements, but as a result of what we're doing, we want to do a lot a lot a lot of heavy planting inside where the pool is. There is no variance associated with the pool forms. Um
I think it might be interesting to talk about what materials we're going to use just to hit that quickly. The roof match the existing roof. >> Thank you. These are additional. I don't know if we want to mark them as an exhibit or
>> Yeah, if we don't they haven't been submitted before. Um >> Oh, >> okay. We are going to need to mark um and so there's quite a lot here. >> We try to cover not that we plan on like
having you approve everything tonight which is there's a lot to get through. all our doors, all our windows, railings. We'll get some really interesting analysis of our railings and what we propose. So, we actually
because we had the benefit of having photographs from the 1880s. There's this uh railing that's no longer there, but we'd like to bring that back, but we'd like to actually bring that back in front of the house. Um, if you had a
chance and you may have not, I like to show you a picture, but the front of the house when they renovated, deposit decking, open joints, deposit railings. So, one of the things we'd like to propose to bring it back would be let's update
that porch. You put a roof flooring. you'd like to bring the railing system back so it be the cedar wood. One of the things to bring back uh we're going to remove the aluminum gutters on the house and install copper
both on the addition and both on the existing house. Um so I think there's some positive aspects of that shutters. Any shutters that you see were going to be inspired by what they have. So they're going to knock the shutters. There's some paneling. So this is a
theme of the house, the starboard. It happens in a few places. So there's some places where I'd like to introduce I don't have to copy this, but I'd like to be inspired by this and add some decorative architect panels inspo by you know some windows
this pattern, some have this pattern. So you'll see through our designs if we get there if you allow me. But every window was kind of thought about and designed >> and inspired by existing. >> You want to go through the package? >> Do you want to?
>> Yeah. So, we're going to need to mark all of these on the record. Um, >> can I can I mean could we just finish the overview because it's a lot details. I mean, I'd like to hear what all the variances are. I mean just the changes you made from particularly
in the back area because that was >> I think we'll just we'll get through this presentation and we'll listen. >> Okay. >> And and I don't know if that's something >> I just confused a little bit. >> We want to get it right. >> Before we move on, can we just maybe move the podium because this display is
blocking you completely. So we can hear you. Yeah. We just can't see you. You know the thousands in in the virtual world watching. I get to see myself later and go all right. Um I don't know if this is something to
talk about now, which is this bigger concept. Let me get through the variances because that obviously is something we're going to have to deal with. Um and let's obviously see what your thoughts are. Um
we have a board. So let's get advanced image. >> I I took the opportunity I I even though it may not be the purview of this board but I took the opportunity to
study the neighbors and the negative effect if any to the adjacent neighbors and there's three of them as a result of this project. Um, so I'd like to picture that diagram. Okay, you guys do have
>> the last one. last one. >> And then prior to that last one is a series of pictures that were taken today, >> the very last one >> by my office >> and they accurately depict today. We'll talk about the variances and I'll
talk about the site conditions and why I think there's really very little negative impact. If we all believe in this design, this this beautiful historic design, then I believe that the variances
potentially be granted without any real negative impact to the neighbors. >> But but obviously the variances is a completely different issue, right? That's not our issue. I mean I mean Maybe >> we're curious to know what they are because that's going to be an issue that
you'll have to board on our board. I I I I was I was under the >> guidance that this design of happily manipulated by historic and the
concept of being true to the original house would trigger variances and we might need the a letter from the board saying look this is a good alternative versus a fully conforming design. >> Yeah. I mean it's it's it's hard for us to support an application that's going
to need multiple variances though. So that's that's the difficulties we have here. So I'm curious to hear what what it was that there are variances but the var and then also why it is that you need variance because you mentioned that there were options that don't need varianes that don't fit with the
setting. So it's good to hear both sides of that. >> Yeah, absolutely. and actually have that presentation available because that was the like I said I've been working in town for I didn't say that but I've been working in town for about 23 years and the first thing we do is study zoning
okay here's our building envelope here's our setbacks now let me solve the client's needs now let me be sensitive to the original architecture of the house that was presented that was veto clearly
No go. So obviously this is step one in our journey. So step one in our journey is is to is is to um do this and then do that. So it's you know it's kind of like it's a very strange place to be. Now
please and we're all pleased and we love we love the design. We like the program. We love the layout. Let me run you through the basics. I I I I it's usually not the fant it's kind of like right because
there's always it's it's a number and so now we look at what it is. So let's look at what it is. Rear setback rear yard setback is a function of the lot depth. So they want 20% of
the lot depth uh to be the rear yard setback. So our lot depth is 181 ft. He takes 20% of that and short story is you come out with 36.3 ft.
As a as a result of trying to fit the program, we need a variance for about six feet here. But I will tell you, we'll look at the photographs that the tail road and this is a
side of someone's house. and we have some measurements but and there's a lot of mature trees uh that rock us from the neighbor. So the six feet and I'm saying
six feet I think 6.8 um don't think that's difficult pill to swallow. That's the first variance. Um then as a result of putting the addition in the rear yard, you wind up with something
well short has lots of rules. So the first one of the rules is rear yard unoccupied. How much of your rear yard? Now it's kind of over here. They said, "Okay, well, this is your rear yard. You must maintain a certain amount of open
space. Um, the short story is that you're supposed to keep 7,000 square ft of open space and we're at 5,000 square feet. So, we're about 1,900 ft efficient per for your unoccupied." Um,
that's second variance. Third variance is building coverage. Um we're requirement is 13% and we're proposing a 15.4% uh 2 something% over it's an additional
689 ft. building coverage. Uh the zoning board usually looks at building coverage also as what's the deviation from what's allowed. Um we're 18.7% deviation on what we got. Um and of
course that's um a lot of it has to do okay well we were told you got to keep the garage and you can expand it. um we must keep it otherwise there are other solutions but this one
again is is historically preferred. Now we get into um some other things which are are pretty small which is they have accessory well this is interesting existing
non-conformity. So the existing garage, they want garages to be 12 feet, which is this line. This is a 12 foot sideard setback for detached garage. So currently we're at
existing line for three, but because of the angle of the shed and the angle of the lat line and we start our new, we're at 5.92. So we're expanding. It's just not forming. It's getting better. Certainly look at the photographs. This
neighbor is very very far, very mature trees. Not sure there's a humongous negative impact for that one. And accessory use coverage. That one's only
over by 85 square ft. So, um, basically they give you a percentage of how much accessory use patios, pools, other things, they give you a certain percentage, which is 20%.
And we're asking for 20.9%. So, a very slight variation dev deviation on on that. Those are the variances. Um I apologize. One more which is uh again this is a what they
call floor area ratio. That's one of the bigger variances to get approved or or guess approved but the overage on that is very very small. It's only a 2% deviation. So again something that I've
gone up for. Um normally when you go for a variance they talk about well what's your hardship? But why do you need a marriage? And normally it's a I know well the hardship is based on your lot size or in order to put it. Now our hardship is we
have to come up with a conforming historic design. So you know we're we're in this place and >> so you mentioned that you had designs that wouldn't require all the variances.
Um do do you want to go into those just so we >> I would I would have liked to like seven months ago for sure but happy I did write a copy. Um >> I mean we you know >> I just >> we need to understand where you how you
got here right? >> Okay. Well that's I could tell that story. >> Maybe we can start with like the bigger ones like that rear yard on occupy is 1900 square. Guess a huge variance. Um, how would that how would you get
that is to conformance? Like how >> Well, if I don't have the addition of the rear yard all that open my rear yards. >> Yeah. >> If I put this thing on the side of the garage. The side of the house. >> So, you mean between the house and the garage? Like
>> Yeah. I have an incredible amount of space to to to build, but I can't build on it because um we're a numbered house, right? So, I have >> this. Let me put you in a nice color here.
>> I'll just say looking at this design that you shifted it to the side. That's where you put the bulk of your masking in the back, but not the back. It's shifted and then in the back you have the, you know, pool deck area space. Why
couldn't you flip that so that your housing is where you have more space to work with >> the green area? Well, that's >> it's a very simple for me to say take a mirror and flip it, but you have more space to the left. You don't have more space where you have the house going to
back not just back straight, but >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. We looked at all of that 9% that uh to the members of the board and they didn't want there either and but that's okay because it internally didn't work out great for us but I looked at that
>> that was the one of the fourth generations is okay let me put it in this corner because I do have the house step back further >> um but then there was okay well I'm going to see it so much and I don't like it there you know try again over here.
So there was this um you know there was this flow of of of of design. So we've arrived here with the guidance and help of many and
um yeah and there was uh this this obviously and I I I'll be the expert here in terms of appropriate historic uh locations and designs.
Uh I think I think obviously we we love it and I think words in his mouth but thought it could be approved. Um >> we get into >> Yeah. I just want to let you make sure you had your chance to present what you
want to present because next you want to hear how >> Yeah. I mean I I would um I don't know the value. I mean I I think we have and I think I have the original design. >> Yeah, that would be kind of interesting. I mean
>> that better understand >> that would be fun. So we we we have a threedimensional we like to walk through this project threedimensionally. We have that >> the house is so unique to kind of describe. So like if you were look at it >> Yeah. And I think if um obviously that
we have a lot of variances and um there are opportunities to reduce patios pools certainly we won't get there by just reducing the pool doesn't get banned. Um yeah um
>> yeah I'm not I'm not asking that whole presentation I'm just asking to understand how we got here. So I think it's good to know that there were pieces considered and this is what you're advancing and like I said it's hard for us to support an application that's going to need several variances
>> uh just because you're saying it has to meet with the historic character and we just want to make sure we've exhausted all all >> Yeah. Um >> well just to be clear that's not the zoning board is not required to accept
back to, but if this is step one in the journey, >> right? >> And step one of the journey says this is what we want and we will help you. Well, we'll put in a good word for you. Um,
step one then is to how do we get out of step one if we can't make you happy? Uh, how do we get to the next happy? And if Okay, so there's >> right things could be smaller, right? I'm not saying you should do this, right? I'm not saying this, but you would take a pool out, right? This could
conform. >> I don't thinkfor could be sign. There's a lot of variances here. I'm not giving any opinion. >> Yes. >> About my view or any other board members view. >> Well, I'm happy to >> hear them all. >> You could I'm not giving them >> today. It's not appropriate. But you
have a lot of variances. >> Yes. >> Right. You could reduce the number of those variances, right? You could take a pool, right? I don't know what that would do to your numbers, right? I understand why you don't want to do that. I'm not and I'm not advising you
to do that. But the idea that this house as proposed has to be this way and therefore zoning has to approve it is not the right way to think about it and or at least not the way I think. So you
would say I have the right well I would like since we're talking about let me share with you what does it for? No, I have more >> the early early conceptual >> I happen to have a copy just for
This took you back. This pink area is the addition. We would remove the shed, the two-car garage, which by our opinion, our research tells us that it was built in 1969
2000. So do where the pink area is. It's conforming. You can see the setback lines the big car attached garage. And above it we would do a master bedroom suite and it doesn't violate lot line. It
doesn't violate F building coverage lot coverage off by various ways. And so uh that's where we started and uh I was and what my my goal was and of course I
don't want you to judge maybe what it looks like but here's the concept and I would say to the board okay well here's a a conforming um design help me or I will work with you festration materials
and I thought that this was a sense positive uh addition to the original architecture. It's lower in scale and mass. It's set back. Um but it was a no. We were told um go back to the drawing
board and we did and we did and we did and so we came up with a magnificent solution. But now of course the the problem is being variances and so that was not something that was
not discussed. >> Um so that's that. >> All right. Well, thank you for giving us that uh understanding as to how we got to where we are today. >> Yeah. >> Um >> yeah, just want to make sure you're you're getting through your presentation
and giving us what you want us. I I I was not prepared to uh talk about that. Obviously, we presented at the informal meeting and we had gotten great reviews and it was exciting and we were excited and um so I guess I'm a
little surprised that now we're not talking about smaller items and now we're talking about >> well it's it's an understanding as to why the variances are needed and >> yes >> going from this route to what you have now is where you are. So yes, that is
what you're presenting. That's what we're understanding. So just understand that we have to understand the past. So >> thank you. >> Okay. >> U did did you want to talk about the materials and anything else you introduced?
>> I mean I would love to. Uh however yeah of course I I I know we have the full board. I mean I guess um one way to get through that nicely might to
take you on a little >> So before we do that let's get all these marked into evidence just for the record so the record's complete. All right. So A1 I marked as um a seven page packet with a 77501 Nantucket door
specification as the first page. Um, A2 I've marked as a color photo color print out of grouping materials. A3 a onepage
color print out showing mechanical seam panel profile. A4 is the pergola detail. A5 is uh depicts the quick custom chaff of cedar bracket and column detail.
A6 is there's a threepage packet with the first page depicting a 6 inch single traditional euro bead gutter. A7 is a spreadsheet of window types and
locations. A A8 is a threepage packet. um related to pellar reserve traditional wood and plaid wood windows.
A9 is uh decking material and railing and A10 is the PA material. That's two pages. A1 is the backyard and
pool fence detail. A12 is uh photographs of what appear to be existing conditions and a Google maps overlay with
um the house with I don't know what's depicted. Is that the addition? Okay. >> Um and then A13 is the zoning calculation form. >> Okay. on Jeremy. I'll take you and I'll
confident desktop. The first image that you're seeing is for the two French the pairs of French doors that lead us off into the first floor edition. I chose mahogany. I chose no grills. Um, and
I'll take you through and you'll see that on top of these doors has the transit window with a series of smaller grills. But I thought it would a cool idea to get out of the window world and use doors as of windows for some of these
materials. Um, picture the trans window. Uh, so this is fun. This is uh our software that will show us threedimensionally what I can take you anywhere you want to
go. Um we're looking at the Net George door. You can take this to the back. So again, this is the addition in 2000. This is this elegant W. >> Well, that's okay. You can take us
around. they haven't seen yet. It's kind of a >> you look at it flat on a piece of paper and it >> it's really helpful. >> It's so helpful. >> And then if we needed to and I certainly could be another day, but we do have the existing versus
Hello. >> Um part of this program is a side entry mud room which is consistent in this door. It's also going to be a mahogany door windows. Um, Pella um
their series, but it's their high-end series with the city of true divided life integrated divided lights um white match the house. Yes. It's called their um preserve traditional collection with um
integrated um divide lights and then we tried to make a mix bag. There are some windows on the house that have the transient windows. So we we chose to do it here. Uh we chose to scatter in some windows with um
let's say six over ones and smaller one four over ones. Um then we opted obviously to to make get inspired with the specialty window and do that. Um so this is now the back of the house. >> Can you zoom in on that specialty
window? >> Very helpful. makes different guess there's a world >> where we get approval if variances I guess are not concern I don't know and then when we go for the
variance we could negoti satisfy by their needs and wants something because obviously we want to get out of uh we're talking about unstop and >> you know there were I just since you be Bart Mix's comments there were a lot of
comments in that particular area in terms of the design. >> Yeah. So there was >> I just want to understand can you just changes to everybody? Yeah, before we had a a pretty strong gable roof here uh that was very celebratory of the chimney
and the windows. So, this was a very nice idea to normalize this roof line. We have a very modest chimney that hooks his head through, not like this before. We had this very grand vertical element that there was some negative opinions on. And then the some of the takeaway
was okay, what material we using? So, we're going to do a cobblestone taver. Um, we've created some imbalance and and and so by creating this imbalance and this is a nice special window and this has the
shutter system on it and so that was the change to that elevation as a result of some conversation. The only other change was uh well besides okay what are you doing? So now the concept is okay, we'll match the cedar shakes. We're going to take
the stone, match it, and bring it around the base. And then we've just thrown a little bit of elements of of some brick together. So talking about materials of how we would plaid this building. That's this is our proposal. Um
we need u maybe take us back the other way. Yeah. You know, this house is very interesting because it's well doesn't seem to be a front or a side. It's like it's one
beautiful sculpture and now it's like all right this I think Bordon kind of would agree that this was a great place to put the addition. Yeah, I think that helps. Maybe go let's look at it from a bird's perspective on the
massing. But one one other change on this elevation. I tried to bring our roof like all the way down and make the sweeping move and they felt that was a little too strong. So we added some windows and we lifted
this back up. Um so other materials again quite simple to state which is the roof would match what we have the brick would match what we have the stone would match what we have where we put it um we have the details on the metal roof but you really
don't see metal roof the metal roof on the bridge so there's not much visible standing steam we picked out our seed brackets um we picked out our per dimens material. Um, and so again, I I guess um back to the
conversation is something I I guess is that something that the historic commission get behind? >> Well, I think to answer that question, we should hear from Barton then.
if you are I just don't know where you are here. >> I I think this is a good place to open up for questions. >> So, do you have the standing points you want to bring up from your review?
>> Um, look, I I don't think we're going to delay you with the zoning board um being backed up, but you know, I do not recommend that we approve this tonight. Um, but that being said, you know, you've come a long way. I
mean, this is this is the right design. Um, you know, we spent many months going back and forth on trying to get this right. I mean, this is a thousand times better than what we started. Um, so I understand that it requires different
variances, more variances. Um, but the view from Western Drive is now preserved historically the way it's supposed to be. the 2000 additions um there with the you know the kitchen bumpout and also the garage recladding um are very
tastefully done. They fit with the house, they fit with the architecture, the materials, they're very well done. >> Um so we didn't want to lose that look of the detached garage um in order to just make you know a more modern attached garage that may need all the
variances. Um, it was also a lot more mass that you'd see from Western. So, it was a little disconcerting to us. Um, what was historic, what wasn't, it's just much more mass. This way, you get a lot of that mass behind the house. And so, uh, you know, as Mr. Dubet has been
explaining, it's, um, it's really a thousand times better. But this is many, many iterations before it came to the full board. Um, but that being said, you know, I think we just need a lot more information. I mean, this is a big project. There's a lot of moving parts. You know, we can't, you know, we just we
can't get this stuff and, you know, nobody's had time to review any of this. Um, you know, this is a great idea with the railing and everything. >> Yes. >> Draw it up. >> So, but let me ask you a question because, um, I'd be happy to, which and I've seen this before, which is we
approve you on the condition that we approve your railings, your windows. So, >> well, there's too many things. I mean, we need, you know, we need a written narrative description of all the proposed alterations. So, just hear me, hear me out. >> Yeah, I didn't get that. Uh, >> we need all the narration written out,
all the different things. You know, we went through all this. I think the materials you're moving in the right direction. I think for the your zoning uh, you know, here on the front where you're explaining your variances very helpful. I think what you
had on the screen where you actually had your site plan with the variance setbacks and everything in color I think would be a lot easier for everyone to understand. I mean I know you have them here but you know the red lines or >> blue lines it was it was helpful for I think everyone to understand better
there. Um, you know, maybe on these elevations too, it might be a little better to kind of differentiate, you know, the existing from the proposed. You know, they haven't been staring at it for many, many months. Like, like we have that may
help that a little bit. Um, I don't like this window on the rear facade. I don't know what that what that is. The like small window that you have on the rear all the way around on the rear facade. >> Uh, >> why it's like shorter. Is that a bathroom or something? uh just to uh no
that's all one posit but just to again uh talk about the whimsical nature okay I could do three equal windows but now is an opportunity like all right >> just get it from a six over one make it something okay anything else >> but that's something um
>> because it just it you know the ones next to it are six over one so maybe we just I mean there's a lot of different examples on the main house also I don't know why we made the chimney smaller on the what? You know, just >> that was a call out >> that they asked us to last time.
>> Somebody called it out. >> It was It was too symmetrical. It looked >> It was overwhelming, too. >> Right. Right. >> Okay. Now it's almost too small. Maybe something. >> Well, I can get rid of it. I can do all that. Like that's not
>> I I don't think um the Garrett ser this is like the design team. So, I kind of feel like we could do narratives and we could do detail and we do all these specs, but we need to move. We're stuck in the mud. And
honestly, if and uh I think the memo department was like, "All right, we can approve this as long as we like that. So, let's approve it and let's I would be happy and love to work with you guys on on the finite
stuff, right? This big picture stuff that I have to get through the zoning board and they don't I hate to say they don't care what my window administration is. >> I get it, but this board does. So, okay, nobody finish. Let me finish. >> Yes. >> So, you know, we need like actual call
outs and things on all your plans. >> You know, actual notes like what's what. And then we get down to um your site plan. Um you know, I think we need to know like where are the new HVAC condensers? You call out like an
outdoor fireplace. Like where exactly is that? Um what exactly does that entail? >> I didn't even realize you were having a fence and I don't really understand where the fence is going. >> I explain that to you. I have I have the detail of the fence. I have the fence
foring the accessory. the mechanicals will be in a confirmed spot. Um I can I can satisfy those. >> We need to know the exact spot. The exact spot exactly where the fail. >> Yes. Everything
>> because otherwise each one of those things would be its own application in and of itself. >> But now you guys you you're saying you wanted to support us, we'll go for the variance. And now you're saying >> I think that's what's being said. I think what's being said is that there's
a lot of detail here that one was provided tonight and um that's your decision on how and when to provide it. Um there are many other things that are not reflected in the documentation. And so for us, I think it's only fair to
us as a board to say if you're asking us to approve something Yes. And then you want the board to support you in front of the zoning board, permission to support you in front of the of the zoning board that we have the full uh information about what it is we're
approving, right? So, you know, it may be that some of the things that we're talking about, I accept what you're saying that they're not necessarily major, but there are a lot of things here that are not reflected in the documentation and we are being asked to think about what it would look like. Um,
>> and so I don't think we're comfortable with that. And it's >> Yeah, I have I have a window schedule, but didn't have a chance to to digest it. >> Well, we got 12 13 items tonight, right? So, and it's hard for us to
>> Yeah, that's why I'm kind of open with look, we got and I know we've got >> hard work to do. >> Yeah. And and so that was my point of saying it's hard for us to support an application with so many variances. We need to get behind it and we're not there yet.
>> I think is a good >> Right. It's not even our job to get behind the variances. Right. I mean our job is to say we >> we support this project from historic preservation perspective. >> Right. Right. Yes. >> Yeah. And that's why it's it and I don't
mean to say something. Oh, I just wanted to kind of kind of pop in that like we've been very much like this is I think since September and we've done I don't know four or five reiterations of this and I have been very as I think
Nelson said resilient with this whole process. I've been very accepting of the home and I bought this home very we had an immediate move for a job for my husband. I literally came flew in from Boston and saw it for 10 minutes and I was like okay because we needed uh with
my young children and um through the process of kind of doing this and finding a history of the home I've been very open and accepting to what needs to be done on the outside like if you want like and that's why with the windows and I think him providing everything is I'm
okay with how on the outside if you guys say hey I want to have this window here you know what I'm going to Sounds great. Like I do you guys think that's what's appropriate to the house cuz I'm not going to have the knowledge. I mean I obviously I've done like my research and going to the museum talking
to Michelle like finding information about the home and um I'm not a you know expert but I'm very accepting and appealing to like if you say okay this is under the condition of this you need to accept that we do these windows here
and this needs to be this type. Sure. There my home has so many different types of windows that there is probably 12 you could choose from from what area you would like to have that window and the addition and what would be appropriate for you guys to look at. Um,
which is something I'm very accepting of. I'm not trying to change any colors. I'm trying to do everything that the house has. I'm not trying to take anything away. you guys suggested you now doing copper gutters that this and I was like, "Oh, that sounds like a great idea. It looks, you know, kind of adds
like, you know, like almost a little piece of jewelry on the house. Adds a little size." I was open to that. The chimney, you know, why um or she wasn't here for the last meeting, but the chimney, you know, looks too big. make it lower, you know, but if I don't have if we kind of make this kind of the
going back and forth of like, well, this needs to be, you know, if we're at another meeting and we put the chimney one foot like down like but you guys wanted it two feet down. It's just I'm very accepting to everything and that's why I really
wanted to say in the beginning of what you guys think is like appropriate for the house and for how it look and that's kind of when we have done all the different reiterations of the home from you know the first concept that you saw to having this addition on the other
side but then it was I know Bart was like well you could do a front-facing garage and have this but we're like well you can't do a frontfacing garage in um you know in the town. So we said we we can't do that. Um so I've been very accepting to all and any you know
comments and what >> we're excited to get to this point >> and so um I kind of where it's like we're seven months in and I don't know how many like back and forth like I like I said I will take whatever you guys say to do to the outside of the home and you
say this window needs to look this this one needs to be here. I'm totally okay with that. And that's kind of I think what um Danny because over the time I call him Danny now. Um >> yeah, I guess that's why I started out with like I know we have so much to talk
about. >> So so I think with with that point we're trying to digest what's been presented. Okay. And that's why I think it's difficulty us saying let's move ahead because we have all this material we have to review and I think we need to sit down and go through this and make
sure it makes sense. This is a hard house. It is a contributing property to the district. >> And that's why I think it needs its time time to do this. Right. >> Right. And and exactly, but I guess what I was asking for is if you thought that
the massing and the concept, forget about the you really thought that this was appropriate thing, release us on the condition that we still have to do all these things. >> I think there's too many things.
>> I know Christine has some comments and we haven't heard from her. So, >> I mean, um Okay. Well, so I completely agree what um Mary and Zach are saying in terms of um there's a lot there's a
lot here. Um and I wait I'm not finished because I have more to say. Sorry. So I it's it's a lot. Okay. But I will say seeing a lot of other houses come before I I have to
say you've made an incredible effort in reacting to the board and to Barton and I think what might be productive is as much as we can give you direction particularly because Barton has very specific thoughts and what he's seen
he's really worked closely at least give you the laundry list of what needs to be adjusted if you want to go forward in this direction and anybody else who has other comments and obviously give us the time to review the new information and then could have a quick go at it. I mean
at the next meeting. I'm just throwing that out. So, you know, at least because you have a bunch of, you know, ideas already, you could just at least give it to them so they have it and they can walk away and fix it, you know, if you can. >> I appreciate it. >> No. Yeah. So just a little confused kind
of um what the the email you know or that was sent and what he's what happened and then kind of miss I feel like there's a I don't know um something happened or something where in
between where it said in his letter to everyone and to the town saying that this should be approved to >> but there were about 10 conditions >> about and the 14 and pieces of information that were asked for that we're getting.
>> Okay. >> So, I think we just we just need to >> digest. No, that's yeah, that's fine. >> I guess I thought like all right, let's do this >> as a team together. Just more >> this is more the review and approval at
the stage, not the iterative process. Right. So we now have to take all this into account and write back to you through through Barton as to who how we see this moving. I mean you've been working with Barton which I operate. So um yeah I mean I don't know if you had some comments.
>> No I was just going to like what Martin said like this is a thousand times better than that first iteration. It does look a lot better and most of the material that I see here is very high quality stuff. But again, we need time to digest and understand and see it. And
then pile on top of that, at least from my perspective, and I know we're not the zoning board, but there's close to 10 variances that you want us to support based off of the design being strictly accurate, >> right? >> So, we're putting our weight behind that
to support that. That's a lot. It is a lot. >> That's a lot to ask for from us. Like I need to see does does do all these variances have to happen? >> You have to do this. Do you have to do that? And like it's hard for me and like it is a lot of information. It's a lot
to digest all at once. >> Like there are some things that like you can take back or move around and maybe get it down to where your forebearing needs. Like that's the zoning board would probably be more amenable. I I can't speak to them. I can't give you an opinion on that, but like you're asking
for a lot of variances based off of >> and I think a lot of it is being pushed by we want to keep within the design within this historical accuracy. So we have to do these variances and I mean at least from my perspective I don't know if the rest of the board agrees with
that like I can't really say that we 100% can back that saying it needs eight to 10 variances to be accurate to be historic you know I love the design if there were zero variances I would sign this off
>> is there a way though that because they are different than you guys and you know whether you know the support or what that you back up that we kind of handle that on our end and it's not kind of on your you guys as you said
>> before the variance is it's not something you have to control >> but just so you know we're approving a design you go in there with having to change five or six variances and moving stuff around the design's completely different >> Oh no we have to come Exactly and I and I would be prepared to come back I guess
it's more of >> I think we're trying to see the headache of that bounce back and forth >> interesting I guess either way I would Yeah. And that's my thing. I would be okay with it kind of at least for us kind of moving along since it's been
seven months of kind of going back and forth cuz like I said, I'm very accepting of what any of you guys say with you want this window here, change this one here, you want more stone here, more brick. I mean, we have to our home
there is brick siding and this. So there's a very there's so there's a million different ways you could put what in what area. We're trying to even with taking down the deck reuse some of the stone that was there as a piece to add onto the
home. And I talked with by um Master guy like because he's done it before when he had to take our um in front of our home our gutter that is original with all the stones and he just basically picked up every stone and they're about this small
and cleaned them up and replaced them in the gutter just so because the dirt and over time. So, I am completely okay with reusing and keeping the material that the home has. And like I said, cleaning
and doing it, but I just I guess they're get to a point where it's the back and forth so much. And two, I said we're adding on I know for like I said, it's more uh not personal reasons or score. I just said more for like my
mom just needs a score. um this and I said not the >> and you you've been very receptive to the feedback from us from Bon and again like I'll reiterate a thousand times better from that first >> no and I appreciate that all the work that you put into it and your engagement
with this process >> totally appreciate that >> so yeah that's the only thing is I guess to like where I ask is like if you're kind of okay with you know either I say, you know, not even like, okay, well,
we're here, but it's because historic and they're backing us up, but being like, okay, here we historic is different than you guys, >> right? Our certificate of appropriateness is an acceptance of your design. That is the backing going. So, >> so yeah,
>> we just need some time to do this, to go through this. >> Um, I mean, I I do think we should, if there's anyone in the public, we should open it up. Yeah. So, um, yeah. Are are you good with your testimony at this point?
>> Yeah, we'd love to hear some comments. >> Yeah, I'd like to open up. So, is there anyone from the public who would like to comment on this application? >> Thank you. >> You can come. Thank you. Yeah, >> you could just uh state your name. My name is G Mulaney. I live a Taylor Place
on Del Road. This is my wife, >> Jennifer Mulaney, a Taylor Place. >> And you're adj >> I'm sorry. >> Okay. Sure. >> Um >> I just want to take a look at the map where they are.
>> Well, why don't you >> Yeah, you can go ahead. Um, I noticed in the plans that there's some existing accessory usage in the backyard that do not show up on any of the diagrams. So, I'm just curious if the board knows if those are being
removed during this project. Um, there is a play set and a trampoline that's on some sort of um rock wall base. No, wasn't aware of that.
>> The trampoline was from the previous >> saw that in one of somewhere. >> What did you say that was? >> Oh, I was the trampoline was there previously. >> And you said it's the ground like level there.
>> Oh, there's about a two sided brick wall. >> Okay. >> So, you're asking if it's basically going to move closer to the property line. No, I'm asking because doesn't that go into what the backyard usage is? >> Yes. >> And the numbers might change. >> No, that's very important. Yeah.
>> So again, just >> Yeah, because that question. >> Okay. >> Um the the other issue that I have is that um there's major slopage issues on
the property from top to bottom, from left to right. My yard um suffers from that. I've had significant damage over the years. I've lived there for 20 years. I've seen hurricanes and wonderful storms come through. So, I um
had to replace steps three times because of water coming from the property above to my property. In the winter, um my weed spouts that are six feet below the grade um bleed out for three days afterwards and that will freeze on my driveway.
um it's not coming from my property because uh the geometry doesn't support it >> and the topography. So this project is massive. Um there's definitely going to be noise that reverberates reverberates
from uh the property that's being built and the height and the decks because they're all faces west. Um there's definitely a lot of um leveling that has to be done from an engineering standpoint
>> which would make the drop even more severe. >> And and so um I think again having looked at the historic board, this is a historic house and historic
district. And so I would ensure or hope that you ensure that that's truly benefiting the histo vision of Short Hills. That's why it's a historic district
and the variances and the the zone, you know, they speak for themselves. So I just hope that you take that all into consideration as you look at this project. And I think overall we know that they'll do a great
job architecturally and from a design perspective. It's it's just the amount of items they're trying to put into this project. It's it's a lot. And from our perspective, it feels like it continues
to be pushed left or pushed right because there's no room to go back. And as my husband said, we already have pre-existing water issues. So, um, the pool sits directly in that area of
concern. And so, I would imagine it would be exacerbated. Um, but these are our concerns and the plans that we saw, and again, I know there were addendums tonight, but um, we saw a a partial
fence around the pool. we didn't see um landscaping or lighting where we did not see where all the pool equipment would go. Um so there were a lot of missing pieces for us if that could even if a
pool could even happen in that area because it just seems like there's so many things and I I appreciate I'm a mother of four children so I completely appreciate needing more space but there's just >> a lot going on. So, >> I think I counted three retaining walls
that have to be put in for this project. I know the one that looks like it's going to be on my side is going to capture water and direct it to property line. And so, again, um
>> that's not my expertise, but I at least wanted to make sure that you knew what was going on. >> Yeah, I think that's really helpful testimony. I would I would encourage you if this gets to zoning the zoning committee the board that you would come to that board some of the issues you're
raising excellent excellent issues uh probably are a little bit more in zoning perview than this board's perview um but they're really important points and I know Danny having heard them and being the responsible architect that he is I'm sure we'll think about those things. Yeah, just one more point. The the area
in the corner um uh there are really not any mature trees in that corner. And so when you come down Nullwood, Taylor Place, and even Western, I mean, you see all of that. >> Yeah. No, I saw that.
>> Yeah. You see all of it clearly. >> Yeah. And given that it's a twotory with a deck with a patio that's on the second story, um the level of privacy that we will lose is significant.
And having been there, like I said, for 20 years, um it's it really changed our view of the neighborhood. Um and coming
up Norwood and on those that intersection into Taylor Place um it would be significant from even across the street. So it's just something that we wanted to like share >> and we Gary I'm just we can look at the
lighting though as as it would impact them from our perspective you know yes or no. No, I thought we was I I assumed stuff, but I just wanted to ask the newest Yeah, because No, that's really important. I think that in the short halls lately, there's been a lighting
overload of people just putting facial lighting. Not that they're doing that, but you know that it's it's got to be done in a certain way, certain lumens, like light level, you know, so it it looks like subtle landscape lighting that's natural, not,
you know, boom in your face. is >> that's actually very good point because I don't think we've heard anything about lighting especially exterior lighting very appreciate your feedback >> that's very helpful thank you >> thank you for your good point we did think about lighting
and we we'll make sure it's very clear that was definitely a concern >> and I and I saw the conditions for the house just uh I think he answered some questions which is plain set it's going away.
Trampoline's um kind of in not a per it was there before so I don't even know like >> um but I get it. It's um you know it's it's it's there's so we definitely have landscaping I would like
to share um and definitely uh want happy neighbors. So, I would uh I'd like to maybe do some changes and show everybody and share with everybody what we're doing. >> Yeah. I think the one of the main things they were talking about was that water
runoff. >> Yeah, that's a that's a crazy >> there. Well, what's always what's always crazy to say is as a result of development that we have to go through satisfy the engineering department storm water
runoff now gets managed like previously it's like okay good >> so now as and of course we got a long I explain to you how it works but now we have to control all our water and so generally things get better or they're
supposed to get better for everybody especially the adjacent neighbors So as usually as a positive aspect of all this stuff it's like okay now you have to control it just watching um yeah taking >> mechanical pool equipment which is I did not magic speed there but we're going to
bring that all in the basement so it'll be no cool equipment. >> So is that what's underneath that addition because it seems like there's no >> layer there. we have underneath the addition is more space but in the existing basement we're going to bring the mechanical the pool equipment I will show you the APA
equipment >> something we may not have >> and we'll probably take a hard look at zoning together >> yeah the pool equipment was more of just be like kind of showing like it's going to be inside so that's why we didn't kind of show anything interesting if we
talked about bouncing back and forth it might be better to bounce back and forth here >> then leave here and go bounce No, that guy. Thank you guys. >> That's why this is important. >> I wanted to rush and >> just I just want to make one comment and I know it's going to be a purview under
Martha and zoning, but you know, I'm very sensitive to what um your neighbor said and I I am sensitive because I spent $1,000 cleaning up somebody else's construction vest where they built a heavy grade and I had I put in three of
my own retention pits to deal with that. and I just spent the money because I didn't want my property. So I, you know, even if you put in retention pits and you, you know, it still is seepage down under that can bleed through like a retaining wall on his property and go,
you know, and just bleed out and and so you know, just when you're thinking about the the retention pits and where you're going to put them, it's like dispersing water in different places that doesn't all collect and dump onto their property. to me so many people don't do that in town and I it's just a
request of us do it because for their benefits. >> Yeah. No. And I'm sorry and I never like the only thing that I ever saw from on our property is actually the neighbors behind us because of how the sewer line kind of goes from the street. It kind of
goes into our dryer where where there's a great and then that overflows and then that where that overflows goes down into also with grading our backyard is also to help that because when it dips down and then it starts to flood in our backyard which then goes in starts
trailing off into the people behind us. So, we're trying to also fix that issue with >> the engineering and the how that's done because it does. And so, we're having the yard kind of not in these all these um drastic slopes and having it leveled
out to take that away. and like with the fence and with the landscaping we're trying to also do cuz like I feel in that area too um reflecting those neighbors that it it's the most sparse with the amount of trees because I walk
down that daily road every day during the summer when I'm dropping my kids off the bus for camp and it's the one area where it's just so open and I would love to put more trees and voilage in there to kind of give more because their house is probably the most visual house that I
have even from my master bedroom, the window. Um I see into their kitchen, I see into um when they're, you know, their kids are playing, you know, hockey in the front. Like I can see all that from my from our master bedroom. And so
with adding trees and height in this, it kind of gives them the protection or privacy, a protection, sorry. Um, from us to them because that is the one place in the homes where the people to the right, I don't see inside of their
house. I don't see the people behind us. But in theirs, I just even if we were not to make any changes at all, I see into their house every single day from my room. Um, and that's something where we're trying to add the trees and the
height to kind of make a little bit of a barrier where it's in front of the fence or what how you're supposed to, you know, do it. But to add that protection in and um really with like I said the water drop off it's something I've never
we've been in the house now for it'll be four years this summer and where I've the water has really been from in the backyard where we get the like our flooding and trying to fix that issue because
um with that but like I guess in general um >> sorry >> no no no yeah that was kind of Like I just want to explain like the outside with the privacy cuz like I do want to not have anyone be flooded. >> I I think at this point we're going to
table this next month. So >> sorry till we actually have no May meetings. So >> Oh no May. Okay. >> We don't meet until June. >> So not next month. The following month. Is there something that I could ask them just for just specific wise because I
said I kind of came in to this and I think Danny did too. I don't know. >> I think we went over the the sheer amount of information that just came us. >> Yes. >> Yeah. No, no, that's I guess it was more to answer that question. >> I guess real quickly if I was to make some amendments to try to reduce the
variances, how much time do you need for next? Well, I can so so um materials that you're got exhibits need to be submitted. Yeah, we it needs to be received by Sarah at least 10 10 days before the hearing. >> I think a better question for Barton is
how much time does Barton need because he's >> Well, now it sounds like we have two months. So, >> you have time. >> I got time. >> Okay. >> What are you meeting with Barton in between just to get >> We're going to change the intake procedures anyway.
>> Yeah. need some correction. >> Yeah, that's Yeah, that's I think Gary. No, I appreciate you saying that because I do think his is getting to a point where I feel like respectfully we're kind of being like a little bit like I feel like tossed
around a little bit because I tried to and this is like I said this is seven months going we've had you know prelim like yeah um this is new to me. We've had um preliminary things where we were supposed to be on cases or not cases but
on the agendas and Barton, you know, now told us no, you don't want to. We'll do a we'll do a preliminary Zoom just with you guys to talk to you about this and then have us and then say, "Okay, so we're not going to have you. We're taking you off." Even though we were on
the agenda, but they were like, "We'll just do a preliminary Zoom just with you guys and ask you." Again, this is my first process. I'm not in the >> in the board, but I just kind of feel like I'm being a little bit >> tossed around and being given I'm trying
to go the direction that is >> I think we're kind of pulling back on the speed and not stopping, but we're just we want to pause a little bit to >> I do think this will help us momentum variance. There is procedurally no way
to start getting on the docket without your >> You need our next not an exhibit, but just I forget who asked, but someone wanted to see. >> Oh, I here's what I can offer. Make make all these changes. Do a way better landscape
plan. Way better. Yeah, every little piece and then in like two weeks we can have a subcommittee >> Zoom meeting so that everyone's on the same page and you can just finish everything up, resubmit and >> I just want to make sure that is anyone
else in the public and comment on this. All right. Thank you. We need to make a motion then to table this to the next uh meeting which would be June. So >> do I have a motion? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Second. >> Second. All right. So all those in favor
take a roll call. >> It's stunning >> because Jenkins, >> yes. >> Gary Rosen, >> yes. >> Christine Best, >> yes. >> Okay, so we'll see you in two week two months and hear me. So thank
>> All right. Uh so that was our old business for the evening. Now we're moving on to new business. Uh this is going to be application 579 91 Western Drive block 2202 lot 9. This is a contributing property in the short
park historic district 91 LLC and 91 West B LS applicant. Uh just for those you may not we had previously heard application on this uh property some while back
and you're here to simply ask for some amendments and changes tonight. So please come up. >> How are you John EM law firm? I'm the attorney for the applicant. Thank you Mr. Davis for
explaining why we were here. uh two resisters that I Nick Giuliano and Brian Hirs >> and you're all gonna testify. >> Okay, Nick Juliano and sorry. Okay. So, for everyone that is going to
testify tonight, um, you state your full name and spell your last name for the record. >> It's Brian H. H. >> Nicholas Juliano. G I U L I A N O. >> Okay. Um,
and do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're going to provide this evening will be truthful and accurate? >> I do. >> Okay. Uh, Mr. Juliano, are you licensed in the state of New Jersey? >> Yes. >> Okay. Is your is your license active and in good standing?
Um, do we want educational and experience? >> Uh, sure. How about your >> Sure. Uh I have a bachelor of architecture from New Jersey technology partner with Kelly architecture and design and I'm a commissioner of the Montlair.
Thanks >> so for architectural testimony and Mr. >> H in good standing in New Jersey and >> have you testified you? >> Okay, go ahead. So quick background on the project. We
have applied successfully to this board three times over the last 10 years since it's reviewed. Um the first plan was for a pool house which was approved and was constructed back in 2016 2017 which was approved and we were here two
years ago for this addition that we're presenting again tonight. Um the only reason for revisiting this is that it has changed slightly in volumes porchwise and continuation but as a diagram it is almost identical to what you guys have already seen. So I just wanted to remind everybody what we're
doing. So go ahead please >> again. So yeah, this is a amendment to the previously approved application for 2024. Um scope has largely remained the same. Um the existing house start with the overall enclosed site plan is this
L-shaped piece here. Western Drive down here. And we have a twostory rear edition, a onetory breezeway connector, and a twotory beside the garage and living space above. All connected to the
house, all on the rear side of the property. Um, front facade largely remains unchanged. Side facade here largely remains unchanged aside from a few window updates. And everything on this facade is mostly new, but the main
cross gamrell shaped route on this side stays as is. Um the addition in this area is only one story. So the main kind of shape of the house remains unaffected by that by that addition piece. And in the new addition that we're putting on the rear and on the carriage house
itself, we're mimicking those gamrell shapes. The new structure. Um the house itself is a 1911, I believe, Dutch colonial. um plat house, slate roof, a lot of brick foundation, um divided light windows, um authentic wood
shutters and shutter hardware. So, we're replicating a lot of those same details in the addition itself. Um and for the parish house as well. And there's also an existing detached uh pool house in the back of the property. Um similar
kind of style to the main house um crossell roof shape the same building materials as the main house. Then on the zoom in piece here, it's the same site plan, just focus mostly on the main count itself. Um, I said this piece
here, the existing piece and this L here is where our additions are. Um, parking currently exists in this area right now. We're mostly just reshaping it. Um, the existing twocar garage for the house is part of the main house here, that's
being converted to a family room for the main house in this project, which is the purpose of the new parish house here. So, this area will still remain barking. The garage doors will just be on this side versus here. It's an existing twocar garage. We're proposing a
threecar garage and I believe four permitted in this zone for garage space. So we're uh we're conforming to that and overall on the site we're conforming to all the area and bulk requirements for setbacks, coverages, building heights,
floor area ratio. Um some of those statistics have changed since the original application in 2020. They all remain in conformance with the ordinance. So we're not seeing any variances on the project. >> Let me just talk this real quickly. >> Um the red box that's shown here
graphically is the area where there is some work going inside it. Um, basically the entire driveway and everything outside of this box is existing and is not being changed. The driveway has these stone line swailes. There is an existing brick parking courtyard
currently. And this area currently is a threecar parking area where the snow gets piled up. So, and it's into the grade. This is higher than the courtyard here. So, it's a bank uh house as of right now. Um, all I wanted to talk about here is in terms of the overall
changes, this walkway actually stayed largely the same till right here. And on the driveway, we're staying largely the same to this walkway here. So, realistically, we're talking in terms of the grounds that are new, the top of the driveway, the courtyard, the wall that
frames the courtyard, and then the small grading and walls that need to happen in order to grade these terraces down. >> Yeah. Most of the new work on the main house itself, it's in the back and it's kind of in a C shape. It all faces in on itself. So the sides that face outward.
We mostly try to preserve and maintain and not touch as much as we can. Right now I'm just going to bring up the next board here. The architectural plans is existing photos here.
So just some existing photos of the house itself. Um blackard siding, um dark painted shutters, divided light windows, all existing slate roof and brick foundation. Um most of our work is happening
here to the opposite of where the garage is now. And that'll go to just regular um exterior wall siding and windows on that piece. And um the side facing gable here where the onetory piece and connector will be. This profile will
largely still be visible from the neighboring properties um unaffected. All the work is kind of at the second floor and lower. So, we're maintaining all the gamrell shapes um on the existing house and replicating them on the new additions. Going to go to the first floor plan of
the main house. Going to skip over the demolition plans unless there's any specific questions all of that in the proposed plan. On the first floor plan on sheet HPC6, all the rooms here that do not have the
colored floor hatch are existing parts of the home. Um, everything that has this green color hatch are the new addition pieces. Um, most of this design throughout the main house is the same as it was in the 2024 application.
converting the garage to a family room. Um, opening up the kitchen to this new family room. Um, improving the mudroom where you come in off the parking area. Um, really maintaining the formal dining room, foyer, and living room in the
front part of the house. Um, reconstructing the existing stair um, in place on the interior, maintaining this office study on this side of the house, and all the new work is really kind of shifted towards the back. um the conservatory and the connector
piece all may all stay the same as they were in the 2024 application, but we've made some modifications to how the interior of the breezeway is laid out. Um that's one of the main updates um as part of this package. Um the previous design was a little bit glassier. Um
larger kind of floor to ceiling windows. Um looked nice, but it really kind of functioned only as a hallway at that point because it was completely open. Um, as we've been working with the home owners on kind of refining how the interior spaces should work, they felt that they needed a little bit more
storage in this area and the way the closets um a powder room that's a little more accessible to the addition area of the house rather than the one by the mud room. So, what we've done is we've made the breezeway just a little bit more solid um and looking like more of the
main house where it's got a clapper siding. Um pilestone details on the corners that match the main house, brick found bricker at the foundation wall, water table trim that matches and aligns with the house and just a low slate roof
um on top of it. And it is more solid, but it works a lot better for us for the interior layout and for what the homeowners are looking for. And we feel that it kind of just looks more like an extension of the existing house this way because the existing house itself doesn't really have any precedent for a
really glassy sun room type addition even if it is designed kind of to be historically sensitive. You know, we have in the solid or solid version we feel is just a little bit more appropriate for the house and functions better for the homeowners. and go to those on the elevations in a second. But
while on the first floor plan, one of the other main um additions to this amendment here is this new covered porch that we have along the back. Um the prior application, this wall stayed the same um and the doors and windows on it did as well, but the owners wanted to
kind of just soften a little bit the way you get in and out from the house to the parking area. And we felt that just a small one-story six, seven foot covered porch kind of helped that a little bit. It didn't feel so much like the house was right against the parking area. Um,
we've designed it with columns and intabures and pilers that mimic the details on the main house and the um intabe on it aligns with the existing table that runs around the the uh office on the side piece here of the house and
on this breakfast area piece as well. So detailed it to be pretty much in keeping with the house itself. Um and also on the rear elevation from the first floor up to the second floor.
One of the other updates was just really modifying kind of the placement of these windows along the den and the laundry room back here to just better align with the new windows on the first floor. Um, we think it looks a lot better now that the second floor windows and the first floor windows all line up. The columns
on the porch um are are all centered on it as well. So, we feel like we've just kind of cleaned up that rear edition facade a little bit um in the prior version. Windows are still largely the same divided light wood windows with shutters, copper hole shutter hardware. Um so, the scale and the proportion is
all the same. We just have to clean up the arrangement up a little bit and go to the front elevation here. Some of these updates existing front of the house here largely unchanged. We are replacing the front
door, but we're going to replace it with a solid wood Dutch door. Same size thickness as the existing door. current one just, you know, has a lot of wear and tear on it, but the replacement we want to just look exactly like what's there now. Um, other than that, on the
front facade, as I said, the connector piece here, this is much further back than the front piece. You'll see in plan, it's kind of set back almost the whole the depth of the house here. So, this is set back further. You can't really see it from the at all, especially with the slope of the land.
Um, you really can only see it when you're on the property standing in the patio area at the front of the house here. But even regardless of the visibility, we feel like we've updated it, you know, to make it look very consistent with the front of the house.
Similar window types, um, similar scale, style of shutters, and matching all the existing materials on the house. And the other change on the front facade that we're still posing is that the breakfast area currently has what we believe are non-original sliding glass
doors that were put in at some point and a non-original stair landing here. Um we're proposing to remove that and just replace this with windows that match the other two sides of the room. We think those windows are the original ones. Um the owners just don't really have the
need for the second doorway out from that room. So, we'd like to just eliminate that staircase, maybe reuse some of the brick if the look is close enough. I think when they built that stair, they tried to mimic what the existing brick foundation was and it's a close enough match. We probably
repurpose some of the building water table here. But other than that, the windows are the same height, width, light pattern um as the existing windows on the other two sides of the room. Um, that's one of our updates in this
package. And then the rear facade there. Just quickly go through the side facade. These are all the same windows that were previously proposed. We're just showing this for documentation to just have all four sides shown on the on the
elevations. have the existing facade on the rear. Um the Gamrell shape is really dominant on this second floor in our proposed addition. We have more um just regular flat wall and we're coming out with a new shed
dormer um in the opposite direction of the Gambrell. But the laundry room piece we're designing as another damper to mimic the existing larger one here just at a smaller scale. So we feel like this shed door right here can tuck in really nicely to that and the details just look
really consistent with the existing house. And here are just some of those center lines and arrangements of the windows and the porch that I was talking about and planned for. Um really just as we developed the interior floor plan a little more with the homeowners. We just wanted to take the chance to kind of
clean everything up a little bit, get the center lines a little bit better. Um, because this rear facade really kind of functions as the front of the house for the homeowners. They come in, they park in that parking floor, and they actually go in through the mud room and the kitchen. So, they'll be going in and
out through this covered porch on a daily basis. The front door that's at the front of the house really just doesn't get much use because it's so remote from where you would pull in park to. So although it's the back, we really wanted to put a lot of effort in to make this look good because it is kind of
their front for how they use the property. Um and then on the back of that freezeway connector piece, um similar three bay window that we have here, um shutters and similar size to the existing windows that occur on the
the family room and other parts of the first floor of the house. And just the other view, this is actually an elevation of the existing house, but it's a this one is a section that cuts through the breezeway connector. You could this illustrates
that it stops really at the second floor and the umbrell shape on this side of the house is maintained. the pilers and the foundation all still remain visible even with the swing protector edition and the cross gable um over the laundry
room here or cross gamrell rather similar type of construction just the existing gamrell that's on the other side of the house just to go through the carriage house briefly although we don't really have any significant changes to
So, ground floor of the carriage house is mostly just garage space for the three bays. There's also a small trash room just for trash and recycling. Um, and the connector to the house is through this hallway here that connects you to the breezeway and the
conservatory in this area. Um, just a staircase and an elevator up. And then the second floor is mostly just a recreation room, playroom type space. Um, big open lofty multi-purpose room with a spare bedroom and bathroom
connected to it. And as Brian said, the the grade of the existing site is much higher on this side. So when you come out of the carriage house second floor at this level, you're really only up about three or four from from the grade there. So from that side, it kind of appears more like a onetory, one and a
half story um structure. Then for the elevations of the carriage house, similar to the previous application, we're maintaining the three individual carriage style doors with front facing gamrell window dormers coming out of the cross
gamrell this way. On the rear facade, a similar gamrell with um doors out to grade. Um the exterior steps for the carriage house will be brick with blue stone to match um the existing house. And on the side it's just cross gamrell
shapes with brakes and freeze boards that just match the existing current of the existing apps. So I mean that about covers it for our updates from the 2024 application. Um you have any questions? We're happy to go through them
question. >> Yeah there's not anything substantial. Most of them are pretty fine by me but I just have a question. the the roof over that porch mud room entrance. >> Is that a metal roof? Is that a closing? >> That'll be standing seam copper.
>> Stand copper. >> Yeah, you'll see a little bit of it. It's got kind of positive slope that it won't look totally black from the courtyard, but you have to get a little bit further to see the slope on it. >> Okay. And that'll be Will that be I see it's like a gray. Is it Will that have been painted to similar to the roofs?
>> It'll be It'll be natural copper. Natural. Okay. Okay, >> that was >> I mean I you could just sit there and pick something like it it looks pretty
I have no confidence. >> It's very nice. >> Martin, did you have thoughts on the I mean the changes? Yeah, I mean most of the programmatic architectural um you know alterations we reviewed in detail
back in 2024. I mean this is very well presented. You guys did a good job with the color plans and everything and it's all high-end materials. So yeah, we recommended blue. >> The one thing I just like to make sure that it's all for covered presented again tonight because there were no
changes to it. Uh looking on the overall site plan, there are historic gardens and garden trelluses that we applied for a permit, you know, which is this colonade and there's an old part of the garden here. So this is
completely falling apart and we want to keep the vines in place and redo all of that. And likewise, this was here. We presented all of that last time. I just wanted to make sure that that's included in the approval to just solve it. >> Well, there's no change for that. >> There's no change.
>> We're gonna Yeah. make a motion. >> I didn't want to get into trouble that we're going to wind up doing that and we didn't discuss. >> So, we have we have the priorization and just in there, but um I don't have any comments. It's just I think it is in
this letter that we have the four elements outlined that are being um changed here. So, uh, I don't have any comments if there anyone in the public who would like to comment on this. Make sure forget. Great. Uh, okay. So, with
that, can we get a motion to approve this change with the four elements? >> Motion to approve with the four new elements. >> A second. >> Second. >> All right. So, I think we're going to spell them out here uh from the letter.
uh you know the the porch um that's right the breezeway being changed from glass to more uh solid material. Um there was uh the front door and the sliding door front door being replaced
in kind of the slide door being replaced windows and then I'm trying to remember what is going on in the second paragraph of your letter. Uh exterior French doors at the rear of the new first floor have been reconfigured. Uh >> oh that's the entrance from the
driveway, right? >> Yeah, that's the main windows >> the windows >> that's the colors that's seem like we don't like changes.
>> Um yeah. >> Okay. All right. So with that, uh, we had a motion to approve and a second. So let's take a vote on that. >> Zachary Davis, >> yes. >> Fred Jenkins, >> yes. >> Gary Rosen, >> yes. >> Christine Best, >> yes.
>> Take a five minute break. >> Work on the resolution. Um, can we pause for five minutes? >> You go offline. >> Five minute break. I know what you do to every
camera or whatever. >> I appreciate you guys doing the the narrative. >> This is what this is what we need. Do you suspect there will be a revised resolution? No, this is the one
changes that preliminary the assumption that everything that was in their application. >> Yeah. So, I mean really I'm just going to be revised. So if you want to do that >> I remember that from I remember that
from right very >> very it made drafting this resolution >> easier. color like >> just a clarification question isn't meeting >> there is no May meeting but what we're doing is we're actually putting together
your resolution. Okay. >> So based upon the testimony we're going to make sure that's moving to wait until June but memorialized or can be >> No, they're going to vote on they're they're voting on memorializing the resolution right now. It'll be amended
to include some details from tonight, but the general >> what was in your application >> is outlined in the resolution. So, they're going to vote to memorialize. Yeah, it's essentially putting it into
>> So, let's let's just uh stay on this. >> Okay. Well, that'll be amended. >> Well, that that will definitely be amended. >> Are you? >> Yeah, I I had names filled in.
>> Have really changed. >> So, that would be amended. >> All right. So, Okay. So, um So Sarah, I can already if we up I'll update this for signature and memorialization. You're going to vote on
this with the names properly in there as far as who motioned and who second. >> Right. >> All right. But the rest of it will be what's in what Sarah. >> Okay. >> So just if everyone could just make sure they're good with this. Um any any
comments, any changes that need to be made? me. Yeah, it's I will see there was some guessing as to who was going to make the motion, but that'll be addressed. Just the substantial is 5A one, two, three, and four. Those are the
four elements we talked about just now >> provided to us and we have approved their application with those changes. Um, if we're all good with that, >> are we back on record? Yeah.
Uh so yeah, if uh if everyone is fine with this resolution, can I get a motion to approve this resolution? Uh as as you see motion to approve. >> Okay. Can we get a second?
>> So motion by Brad by Gary. Uh take a roll. >> Zachary Davis. >> Yes. >> Brad Jenkins. >> Yes. Gary Rosen. >> Yes. >> Christine B. >> Yes. >> Great. >> Okay. >> So, we will vote on the slightly amended
ones in June with the corrections. >> Well, no. So, to tomorrow, I'll make the correction to change Elizabeth Wong to Brad Jenkins. Okay. >> But in June, it's going to have a little bit more detail as far as what was talked about tonight. So, you'll have that invance.
>> All right. Thank you. Uh, moving on in our meeting. Sorry guys to have you going last >> conceptual review of application number 634 conceptual for 83 Stewart Road block 3103 lot 49 I'm contributing property
please keep that in mind park historic district uh the lead and ana Abasi are the applicants conceptual to demolish current building and construct a new two-story home and other associ exterior site improvements. So, welcome and
please introduce yourself. >> Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Malik. Thank you for taking the time. I will tell you this is a very doping process. I sat through this today and I saw the first session. I thought the second session I'm going to try and make like the second. So, holy moly.
I do not want that. I want to So, first and foremost, thank you for your time. We sincerely appreciate it. I know it's late. We're trying to keep this quick. Um, we really appreciate the guidance. We're early in our process. This is an informal review. I'm seeking guidance like genuinely like I think
I'll give you a little bit of background on myself. My name is Neil. My wife and two kids were here. The girls, they really wanted to hold the boards up. They like brought it >> and we got past our bedtime. So, we're like, "Okay, you guys need to go back." Um, we moved to Short Hill six years ago during co. We were in Jersey City and we
sudden like, you know, we're cooped up in an apartment. We're like, "We need to take it out." And we we settled on this town. They literally picked it because it was close to a mall and we needed the kids to go places during co and so like so we've come here six years later and it's been amazing. We built a home here
on Jefferson Avenue. Uh we did not have to go to historic so it was an easier process and hopefully this will be easy. Um and my my girls are now 11 and eight. I'm a bit of an oversharer so I'm going to say this like outright to you guys. Um my my my wife comes to me last year
and she says she wants another kid. Like after the initial shock I'm like okay we're stuck here for another 18 or 20 years. Let's find a house and a home and a property that works for us for the long term. Like so when and you know sometimes you get lucky like there not many big lots in Tor Hills. We found
one. 83 is a very very special lot and like the idea of being in a place where you can be for 20 years and build a home. This is not a spec home. This is like our dream home. this is what we want to be for the next 20 years. So that is the intentionality which we're trying to be very considerate. We want
to be very intentional. We're not coming with like arrogance here like I'm coming to you and like open arms to guide us in the process. Um sorry I took notes. Um we're looking for guidance. We want to be very thoughtfully designed. We want it to be timeless. We want it to be
appropriate for the setting. We understand it's part of the historic district. Um we are very lucky that it's a nonree property and it will take a Um, you know, sometimes you get lucky. Uh, this is a black lot right here. Um, the nice thing about a five, uh, it has it has a 530 foot driveway, which is
amazing. It's private. The home is set back 515 ft on the street. It's entirely screened from store road. Um, and it is behind an other flag residence that is on 83 stores that is like in this street. >> Oh, yeah. Um, our intent here, like
there's a very unique condition here. uh that has guided our approach. Um we want to design a home that we think is sensitive to the streetscape um while also taking advantage of the privacy that exists. We want to do something very special. Um our intent here is to
create a home that reflects the architectural character uh and the integrity values of this community while also meeting the needs of the strong family. Um I have worked very closely with Rich Keller. I worked with Rich. He's a good man. He knows his talent. He
knows guy. Well, this is my friend Temple. This is like very unique for me because Temple is someone I've known for 20 years. We went to school together and Temple works in New York. I convinced him like, "Hey, this is my dream house." Like Temple's an amazing architect. Would you ever consider doing something
in New Jersey and Temple has taken this on. I'm so excited. I think like you know when you have a connection with someone, they spend time with you. they understand what you want and I think he's been very considerate and like I think Temple has a deep intentionality to have he wants to respect what is
important for this town uh but also like what matters for our family and find that so that would be thank you for the consideration I'm going to pass on to Temple hopefully I didn't overshare please for my name is Temple Simpson uh I'm an architect based in New York I applied
for reciprocity just to do this project in Jersey so I'm very excited to cut my teeth here Um, but I'm I'm here to learn and I really want to hear your feedback and we want to the dossier was to make this an amazing forever home for his family. So, that's what we're trying to
do. Um, the part is very simple. We are interested in doing a courtyard house. It does a couple things. It breaks down the masking of the house, but it also ensures that all the spaces get light um an appropriate amount of it. Um, we're trying to keep um as much of the
existing condition as possible. of the driveway is as it was previously. We've tried to situate the house the new house where the existing house is and sort of spin, you know, the other site features around it. But, uh, as said, this is a starting point for conversation. We
didn't want to take it too far before getting even corpse feedback on what we're thinking. So, um, I'll just kind of leave it at that. Um, if that's that's okay and just kind of hear your thoughts because you've had our drawings for a little while. Does it make sense for Temple to walk through the drawings or would you rather give your feedback?
We're kind of like I don't know if you guys have had a chance to review. I don't want to be presumptuous. I I I just I have one comment that I if you happen to have the a picture of the original house set up like that would be helpful for me sort of as it relates to doing this >> you know and just if you have any images
of nearby neighbors um and then I would >> so these are some images you see these are kind of small Okay, >> let me zoom in a little bit. You able to see these? >> You can zoom in a little bit.
>> Oh, that's >> when was this originally built? Like >> 1960s. Okay. >> 1963. >> Okay. >> Um, it's essentially a split level house. Um, and you know, we're we're trying to This house is a little wider than the one we're proposing. Um, but
we're a little deeper. So, you know, we kind of set it up the the entrance and the orientation seemed very favorable. Like it just kind of like naturally fits the site and is respectful of the neighbors, so we kept it. Um, you know, it it pushes us a little bit far back into the rear yard. We'll have to work
that out with Rich. We talked to him a little bit earlier today just, you know, to kind of get okay on what we need to ask for and try to avoid, you know, um, setbacks in that regard. Um, but you know, at the end of the day, we looked at the entire house and Nil and his
family will need more house than this. Uh, but the lot, we also thought the lot was favorable in its like secludedness and it's really heavily vegetated on all sides to be able to do something that's that's maybe unique and special, but like, you know, body mile the
the main house, you know, restrictions that exists and Barton, have you had conversations on this? So, >> I mean, it's a it's a it's a weird house. Um, you know, it's a big lot. It's a big house, actually, too. It's a big house, but it's weird.
>> But it's weird. It's got a lot of angles. It's got a lot of eclectic things going on. It's got lower ceilings, so it's not as usable as you really think. U >> were there any additions or anything to it or is it just built originally that >> I think they built it to and it was
actually finished in 1967. So, it was actually built 66 to 67. >> Oh. >> Based on the aerial photos. uh >> other plan, >> but you know they've documented it. Um it's I mean it's you know it's not
historically significant. It's not from the period of significance for the district. You literally can't see it from any any vantage point. I mean I always I'm always the one who's like I'm sure you can see it from somewhere. This is one of those few blocks >> 515 ft. >> Yeah. You're just not going to see it
without a helicopter. And you know we >> can I tell everyone about the helicopter that I want to put on >> um you know it it's got a lot it's got different materials going on as well. Um you know it's got like some stone on the
front that may have been salvaged from somewhere else but then you don't see it anywhere else in the house. Um and you know it has other other issues too even being set back so far um in terms of its infrastructure and everything. So u I
don't know I don't think it's this significant house. >> Yeah. >> I'm just thinking in terms of the current proposals and style of it which may not necessarily reflect the character of the hills park uh district.
So, I just was curious if there had been any uh exchange of information on that design. So, >> yeah, I don't I mean, they submitted other stuff with the, you know, the survey and everything. Um, there's only been a couple families that
have ever actually lived on property. >> I think it's one family, right? >> Yeah. I mean, >> she's been there a long time. She's actually been in front of this board testifying before other projects against around her.
>> I'm not going to give any specific. >> Yes, I remember. >> So if this is a dumb question, but if a house is really so set back that it can't be seen, >> do we care?
So we we've always interpreted that as if there were no trees whatsoever that you would be able to see. >> So So yes, it is and with within your perview. However, that being said, with the trees and the setback, all your view
sheds along the street are going to be mitigated by distance away. >> Yeah. >> And just looking at your site plan, you have the tennis court paddle. Looks like that's right on the edge of the property
close to where there's a house. I mean, you do have other area in your lot to consider moving things around. You could even, you know, shift the house, you know, because you're pretty much staying on the existing circular drive that you
have. So, um, you know, just something to consider given what we were talking about earlier tonight with variance of >> I'm a fast learner. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you know, plus you're putting a port close to someone's house, too. Whereas you have to the north that's
more up top. It's kind of open there. So, >> it's actually a kind of port >> somewhere around here. >> Oh, yeah. >> This was the house. she came and testified with that other store. >> Yeah. about and that that was a pretty
um just FYI very early on but that potential issue with your neighbors with noise and stuff and I don't know if there's going to be mics back there like that's something I'm cautious about because they will be able to like earlier tonight some papers another
application came in that could be a concern of theirs you know and I know you're you want to speak your tree house you want to have be on bad concern neighbors But it's just something to think about because that is >> that's very close, you know. >> And also that is is that 81 that's below
you? Is that 813? >> I remember this is 85. >> This is 85. >> That's This is 81. >> Oh, 81. Okay. I'm not so disoriented. I'm sorry. >> It's a little 81. So 81's not affected. >> 81.
>> Okay. Because that that's like a whole different that house is like so just fascinating. kind of stuff, right? >> Yeah, that has right. >> So, you guys hear a crazy story about 81? >> The guy in 81, the guy in 81 actually used to be my old boss. >> Oh, wow.
>> Oh my god. >> Yeah, they're interesting. They're >> And then he tried to buy this house. I'm like, "No way you're buying this house. I want to buy this house before." >> Uh >> uh. Well, just just to come back to the design of of this property replacement.
Yes. is not circuiting, but we're still commenting on the masking, how it relates to the rest of the neighborhood. And I know you really can't see it because of trees and all, but >> you cook through every tree on the property and then we see it, right? So, there's that to consider. Um, and you
know, I would just say the design is pretty modern that you're proposing uh for being in this district. >> So, uh I think there's ways to do it that can still open it up like you want. Um, but being a little more consistent in looking around the neighborhood, seeing what is nearby that you might
want to take some hits from. Uh, you know, if you've had homes coming in, um, like on Highland, there's that one >> the one with Blue Door. >> Uh, opposite uh, what is it? >> 171 Highland.
>> Is that blue door? Yeah, I I did make them aware of that one that if they want to do modern, we don't actually want that modern. >> Well, no, not that modern, but I was thinking of the one further down Highland closer to uh Min
Island is the one that's up the hill. I mean, that's like a >> That's really >> No, no, that's a new one. It's not. No, it's very traditional colonial something like that. But I'm just saying take a look around Stewart. I think you get some inspiration from what's out there.
um stone, you know, more uh gables, you know, dormers and stuff. Is there a house on store? Like I I is it store in minisync where there's it's a it's a single story house and I think it's it has a copper steamed roof like
and it I can't remember. >> It's sort of modern. It's not quite as >> 126 island is the one you're thinking of. It's up on the hill now. I'll 126 Highlands. It's a new house from >> less than 10 years ago. >> Yeah, maybe three or four years ago.
>> Check it out. >> Check it out. >> Like I looked at the house on Highland, >> the first one with the blue door that I was like I got to prove like this is pretty conservative relative. >> I don't know how you guys let that one
through. Was it existing modern house at that location? >> Yeah. And that's how that came to be. Yeah. Um, you know, this is like a modern house looks kind of like a standard colonial just with some eclectic aspects to it. Um, but I do
think you can still achieve the overall layout what you're looking for just in a style that's a little more in the theme of the the district. So, >> yeah. Uh and what's great is that you know Hart Shore money design short hills look to incorporate homes into landscape
and I think you're trying to do that with I see lots of vegetation but it's great you're not looking to you know remove the trees and all trees. >> Yeah. No and that's that was you know he designed around trees and we still have roads that go around. So um I think
that's a good concept to take when it comes to designing your overall uh site plan. So, >> go ahead. >> Oh, um I'm really conflicted because >> if somebody said this is my house to move into, I'd be like, "Oh my god." You
know, because I I actually like a lot of aesthetics. So, um so it's it's a No, I I like it as I mean I like it as an a person, you know? I mean, I would move into it. It's beautiful. Okay. But, um you know, I just want to just talk about a couple points. I think you talked
about the trees. You know, I've seen people just like literally, you know, builders come and they build something and they leave historic tree and then the next people come through and they just blow out all the trees and and they can do that. It's very very easy to do it and you can go and then plant tight teeny tiny trees and then the whole
place. So I don't think we should you know that's not some I wouldn't approve something based on the current like coverage of trees and you know also just understanding like what you know are you looking at putting two caliber trees in or you know more mature trees and that does make a difference. I mean the
layout's really interesting to me. I I the the on trend black window trend right now is very, you know, hot and hip and I'm I'm concerned that that might not weather well in this neighborhood in the long term. Um and then, you know, I
think that this house needs something um you know, it's it's very modern, more substantial, like I don't know if it's just like the a higher quality roof that's, you know, hovering roof, which obviously more expensive. Um, you know,
it's it's just it's it's a little too sterile for me to sit in the neighborhood, you know, if it was on M talk on the cliffs, >> you know, fine. You know, that's just my just my opinion. So, um I'm just saying as a board member, not as somebody like like Sure. And then maybe splitting up
the paddle, you know, somewhere else on the property so it's not this mass of, you know, tennis court paddle. It's just I'm not sure where you would put it. I don't I don't have an answer, but um that would just be my only quick suggestion. But um it's it's a cool house and I think I bet you know which
house yours is on on Jefferson's. >> Yeah, it's very nice. I I I mean I've seen it. I can visualize it. >> You know the point on the trees? So we lost trees because they died during the construction. >> I there's a couple trees on this property that are so beautiful
>> insane. And my wife was like, I want all of them. We need to preserve all these trees because like if you go if you you guys walk probably >> I was I'm gonna be the one on your camera. >> I realized oh my god that's because I was like I'm just going to drop the draw
really quick and I was like I'm like somebody is having >> I wanted to see No, I wanted to see the property that I I felt like I was intruding so I I backed up. But um it's it's stunning like what I see the >> Yeah. And I think the trees are very
special. We want to preserve the trees. >> Like if you look at our current house on on Jefferson, it's the white house that just built like a few years ago. We don't have privacy. And my wife's whole point of view was like, you know, I want like a lot of neighbors and all these things. And you know, like the privacy is kind of nice and like the family's
got and like I think, you know, when we built our house when we're 35 years old, we thought like like listen, we live on a street where like my neighbor is 79, my other neighbor is like 65 and like it's not like we're interacting with them. We're not having that same experience. And so we kind of want something a little bit more private that is for our family. So I think that's the
intentionality. I hear you. Like we like like we value the trees. I like like there's this tree that is so massive that like my wife's like is there any way we can preserve this tree and kitchen around it? >> She's like can you diamond out table around you have you lost your mind like
and she found a photo out table design around a gigantic tree for you. >> So like I think the intention is to preserve as much privacy not I don't want small trees. I think it just like makes the grand of the house like I will like I I take your feedback on the on
the modernness of the house. I will tell you this feels very like traditional for me and so I'm like I'm I'm trying to meet you guys as much as I can but like listen I'll take the feedback like I think we're here for you guys to do this all the time. I think we're open. >> Yeah, totally.
>> Yeah, I think Steuart's a great road to just right there. You can see >> Stewart and Highland great analog to look at. >> There's there's one house I do want to find for you. I'm going to try to that might give you some insight. I don't
know. >> I'm not an architect. >> I will say though, I love the black window. >> The black window, please. >> But we really value this feedback. You know, we want to make this special, but also feel like it's in short. You know
what I mean? And so this is exactly the kind of dialogue we want. >> And guys, I do not want the experience that these birds be. So whatever I can whatever I can do to not have that experience, like please just let me know, be open. I'm very like I'm a very casual person. I want to make this easy for you, easy for me. That was
disastrous. It was like I was looking over to Temple. I was like, this is a train wreck. And I know this is on record, but like I just look back. >> It's a It's a complex. It's a hard project. >> Yeah. Um, how much was this?
>> Anything else? >> I mean, it's always been helpful when we've done new houses. Any commissioners feel free to email even me like, "Here's an idea or something." >> Oh, okay. I'll send it to send it to you. >> That'd be great. >> Yeah. >> We'll take it all. >> Yeah, please.
>> Awesome. Guys, thank you for the consideration. I know it's late. >> New Jersey. >> Thank you. I'm excited. >> I would love it. My my wife's pregnant. We're having our first kid. So, it's just like I always like look around seeing cars. I'm like, "Oh, do
>> you have the deal of taking the train?" >> It only took me 30 minutes to get here. That's when the transa is our current old new uh open meeting for the public. One here left. We can move on to
discussion items. chair is not here. So, we'll move on past that. There's no minor work to talk about, which is kind of interesting. >> Has everyone been getting in their emails? >> I I'm on board. I I got the note from from um Matthew like I didn't I wasn't
on emails by >> I finally email. >> Does everyone know you got to use your >> I do right now. >> They emailed me my old one. >> I was I was me. And we I just set it up. >> I couldn't set it up because when I went
to set it up, it told me in the Outlook app, I remove all my other emails. It's government >> something or other um email address and that's where my work is. So >> in there, well, I put it in my email, my
iPhone, not the Outlook app. Hi guys for any communication it could have also been clashing my work has a lot of >> yeah so it's but has there been minor work
>> yeah a lot >> there's been some I went back and looked at them I didn't know >> yeah especially from the seven said the ones from the seven >> okay so there's not those going any work.
>> Yeah, I gota go back. >> So, nothing to report there. Um, part of this meeting, we are advancing the Indian transit bridge project to the town committee. Hopefully, you all saw that.
>> Well, >> I was telling All right, I think that story. Well, I I keep going back to the fact that we can drive over a historic bridge never see the bridge. So, >> it's a good thing. So, uh we do have to
make a vote sending that right. So, >> yeah. Okay. >> I've read through it. Hope you guys have comments, you can still send the comments to Bart Alison and they'll still go on to Council Giddy. Um, I
actually did that. So, pretty good. >> They did a great job. >> I was actually surprised that they were all old. >> I I actually was expecting some have been rebuilt, but they are all from the late 1890s to 1923, I guess, is the latest one.
>> To me, it never made sense why they're not part of the railroad district. So, at least now we have them. All right. So, can we take a motion then to um advance the study to the town committee? >> Motion. Motion to advance cellular template. >> Yes.
>> Second. >> Second. >> Okay. Great. Take a vote on that. >> Zachary Davis. >> Yes. >> Brad Jenkins. >> Yes. >> Garen Rosen. >> Yes. >> Christine Bess. Yes. >> Great. And like I said, please if you have comments, send them in and we'll forward them on. >> And then the last item for tonight is uh
the this is pretty amazing that there's another property in town that would like to self uh designate. So pretty. Thanks. It's pretty amazing. So, um, great. This is the Mount Zion African event for this uh, Episcopal Church, which I admit I didn't know where it was on Church
Street. I had it up from the address and sure enough, it's there. So, um, hopefully you all have seen this uh, document and you know, their records go back to 1881. Current structure built in 1902.
>> Um, I think this is great. So, what they're asking is of us is if we would recommend moving this to the town committee for uh self-d designation. Um, we would actually have Barton prepare their nomination. I guess >> we need to do some background. There's
actually two buildings on the site. There's a church and then there's their parsonage. >> Parsonage. Okay. All right. >> Which is even older than the church. >> Oh, yeah. >> Um, you know, they're both there. There's modern buildings that have been built around them, but the church and the parsonage are still
>> So, sorry. I guess we would then be having a motion to authorize you to prepare the nomination. Is that what we >> I think so to the town's decision, but it helps it helps if we are all in agreement, we want to move it forward. Yes. >> But then that that request would go to
the TC. >> I think normally you you come up with a dollar figure. It goes to about it. Yes. And depending on the amount, >> okay, >> it gets authorized then you prepare the report, right? And then you >> correct
>> then you probably ultimately >> so >> one more time after you see the report I mean he tech he has to find that it's historic. We don't have to write a dissertation. >> I'm sure you would do it for free, but I >> So the first the first step is to
>> say come up with the number. >> Yes, like some background research. Why why is it significant which should only help us in the future if it does get locally designated to what are the character defined features future applications
>> like we did with >> it's the same thing with the bridge the same process >> right >> all right so let's can we can we get a motion then to authorize Barton to prepare an >> prepare an estimate to assess the
>> historic character or the >> I send it to the town. >> Yes. Okay. Of the mountain >> and record have a motion. >> Motion. >> Second. >> Second.
>> Second. >> Zachary Davis. >> Yes. >> Fred Jenkins. >> Yes. >> Gary Rosen. >> Yes. >> Christine Best, >> yes. >> Uh, great. Does anyone have anything they want to add at the end of our meeting to bring up?
>> No, I was just talking how many churches do you do you guys know like how many churches are and andor temples are um actually designated historic township like off the top of your head who's asking Christ Church in Short Hills part
of part of Short Hills district and then in Wyoming the there's the white >> the Presbyterian one. Oh, church there. >> Oh, yeah. That is historic. >> Yeah, exactly. Historic district already locally >> they're part of district. >> What about the like the Baptist church
that's not far from here? >> Oh, the green one outside St. Stevens. I'm sure it's old. >> Well, that's all part of the downtown. >> Oh, okay. >> It is. But but actually, it just got brought up that maybe doing houses of worship study maybe
>> I think it would be a really good idea. I'm voting for that. Yeah, >> especially with the new laws coming up with a good time to >> I think we could ride that wave with the sentiment. >> They thought maybe we do this one step,
>> right? >> Yeah. I don't know. I'm just worried about the township committ, >> you know. I agree. We should do it. I just maybe we start with this >> see or I don't know it's great when someone comes to go up on the books
>> the designating get ahead of it >> the critical issue whether I think >> the designating I think that's where you're going to see issues >> right
>> right even all of these I if they want to be >> still need to work, right? There's going to be money. >> So, in terms of just an approach, >> you know, I don't know. I don't know if we do we approach uh
the houses of worship to say, hey, we're, you know, are you interested in this? Is this something you want? >> Maybe want to get senses, >> right? I think we need to >> I was only throwing out because of the St. Stevens and also like you know part of Explorer's mission is to like protect
um historic properties in um you know downtown um districts and so it's something to start you know getting HBC more involved in what the sport does. >> Yeah. >> No, I think it's a great idea. I just I just I'm a little I just want to make sure we politically
>> do this the right way. >> Yeah. >> Good idea. Uh well with that then I'm going to motion to journ second. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. The feeling is reality.