The ocean has >> Are we Uh, I'd like to call this meeting to order. Welcome everybody. Um, I want to first start by reading the open public meeting statement in accordance with
section five of the open meetings act chapter 231 public laws 1975 advised that notice of meeting was made by posting on the bulletin board town hall and serving the officially designated newspapers. a notice stating that this meeting would take place at the board of
education building at 4:34 Melbourne Avenue, Melbourne, New Jersey at 7:30 p.m. a little later today on December 4th at 2025. Darren, >> Alison Canfield
>> here. Zachary Davis, Robert Frankle, Brad Jenkins >> here, >> Gary Rosen >> here, >> Justin Salem >> here, >> Elizabeth Winga, Christine Best >> here, Chhat Lavvada
>> here. >> Thank you. So, uh, I'd like to make some announcements. The agenda was quite long tonight and so we do have a few that we're going to carry uh only because they've postponed or you know we've agreed on that. First of all uh 17
is carried to the next meeting January 8th 174 Highland Avenue will also carry this application. That one's being carried with no further notice except for anyone that may not have received notice previously.
>> And 62 Western Drive uh is right now off the agenda uh as a conceptual. So we will wait for further notice. Okay. Um do any of the commissioners or council have any
announcements that need to be made? Okay. Hearing none, uh, we will move to meeting minutes. The minutes of the November 6th meeting have been distributed to the commissioners. Are there any additions or corrections? >> We don't have those. >> All right. We don't have those.
>> Apologize. So, those will be at the January meeting. >> Yes. >> Of course. So, the January 8th meeting memorializations application number 62067 Myrtle Avenue.
uh is one of our memorial locations. I'm going to just list them and then we'll make a motion to approve. The next one was number 619 171 Highland Avenue and application number 61851 Chestnut
Street. Do I hear a motion to approve these memorialization? >> Motion to approve. Do >> I hear a second? >> Second. >> All in favor say I. I >> opposed >> hearing none. We will now move on to
unfinished business. Um, which was 17 minutes roading right through and >> yes. And then our the next thing on the agenda is uh all the commissioners uh
received the report on the Woodfield district. >> Correct. Um, I'd like uh Matt to answer any questions that we might have of, you know, possibly, you know, what we feel about this report
or do we we approve this report? So, does anyone have any questions on this? This is the self-d designation of the code district. >> No, I think the report is very parallel. Goes through everything. It's it's like
we discussed last time. It's nice that we have people that want to self designate. Um yeah, I don't think there's anything else really outside of that like that really needs to the history. That flyer that we had last time was very informative, very helpful.
Um I don't have anything else to ask. >> No question. >> No question. >> Okay. So, first of all, we need to vote on approval of Barton's report. Yeah. And that it meets the criteria
including all the employees. So, do I hear a motion? Want to approve? >> Motion to approve. >> Do I hear a second? >> Second. >> Thank you, Justin. I forget you're out
there in space. Um, great. So the next thing we will vote on is uh notice to the resident. So that is part of the designation process. So we could take a vote. Um so it's certified letter. Um
again these this is the neighborhood driven. So they all know this they signed a petition majority of them. So, uh, we will just send a a notice that, uh, of designation.
So, do I have >> I'm sorry, just so I understand. So, we're not we're noticing then that the district has in fact been designated or does this have to go to the township committee? >> It it will go to the township committee once everybody's been noticed. >> Yeah. >> And then we will have a public meeting.
>> Uh, we don't have the 26 dates yet. So as soon as we have those, we will make that public. >> And so that uh so that um public meeting is a meeting of our board or is that a meeting of the township committee? >> It's a meeting of our board with the
public who has any questions, concerns, and then at that point it would go to the TC and again another public. >> Great. Thank you. >> Yeah. Um, I have a question just on the process and we're doing are we going to do multiple notices just to make sure I
mean as as the process goes on or is it just one notice? >> Um, we would notice the one notice would tell when the public hearing is for HBC. Am I correct now? The TC uh would just put it on their agenda. >> But would would the people in the
neighborhood get the notice of the TC date? That was the only thing. I was just wondering if that was something to add just so miss. You don't want to have somebody be, you know, like angry about missing. >> The ordinance for the designation process requires the notice go out for
our hearing. Um, if the TC has their own specific notice process, it's not outlined in the ordinance. I don't know if at least in that section of the ordinance. I don't know if there's a separate notice process um for the TC just generally doing business but I
believe it's just putting things on the agenda and you know >> I mean I was just commenting just so to make to make the process as successful as possible because you know you know I think when people feel involved I think that the success of that being designated will be stronger that just my
only comments. Well, we do have a team member here. So maybe what we can do is once you know we approve once we have our public meeting maybe we will have some idea of when the TC meeting will
happen after what you know and that will be presented on the TCL. >> So the other thing I would like to add is even though we are designating the woodfield section but the borderline houses can also be impacted. So the
question is who will all be notified? Is it just that those houses in the district or what about the neighboring houses that is in the borderline? >> Is there a 200 >> uh let me double check. There is at some point notice to
>> I think it's to I believe it's to the neighbors within 200 feet but I just I I'll double check that. Is that what the >> That's what the normal process is. Uh as far as self-d designation, there's not clear language, but we would we also
want the same thing. We want everybody that we know this will be out to the public that there will be a public meeting. So, you know, we will do our best from the experience we had when we were driving a designation versus
this experience where the neighbors are driving. Yes. >> So, we will make sure that we get the >> I think like to her point the broader the people >> it's more success >> is more success more awareness
>> they have a chance to say. So is is a very important thing >> and also do you need is there a do you need us to help on anything to just um educate people that might you know want understanding of like the benefits of being historic district you know I just
if you need any >> again this is really new >> yeah I know it is kind of >> to be want to selfd designate a district >> um so we are navigating through this too how much we play a role, how much it's
driven by the actual neighborhood and the fact that they did a lot of research as to what the original neighborhood was prior to um so right now we um we are talking with the TC very close to the TC
making sure that we are you know having these public meetings and you know making these announcements wherever we can. Okay. >> Yeah. And we'll make sure that whatever the notices, they will go out as required per ordinance, you know, so
anyone that needs to get it will get it. >> Great. And about education, um, I leave my line open at all times. Yeah. >> Again, please talk to people. If someone, you know, comes up to you and asks you about it, certainly. And if you
don't know the answer, there's somebody who probably does. the legal question. You know, maybe someone who's been here a little longer might be able to answer those questions for you. >> Okay, great. So, right now, I'd like to
take a vote on noticing the neighbors if I could. So, um would someone like to make a motion to do so? >> Motion. >> Thank you. Do I have a second? >> Second.
Okay, >> perfect. So, we will move forward on that. Perfect. That works out very well. Um, also, >> yes, both. I'm sorry. >> Allison Campfield, >> yes. >> Brad Jenkins,
>> yes. >> Gary Rosen, >> yes. >> Justin Salem, >> yes. >> Christine Best, >> yes. >> Venites Chlo, >> yes. >> And just for anyone who's in the audience and very interested. It's 110
page um report and I have one copy uh but it's also online if you're interested. It's a very interesting neighborhood and we
also uh found out where Mrs. Taylor was her estate was on this piece of property before they built all of the beautiful homes. So, um it was an amazing discovery for us, too. So, all right.
So, we will now move to new business. Uh our first application this evening is 107 Glenn Avenue, application number 612, lot number 304, lot number six. It's a non-contributing property in the wine only historic district. Uh if we
could have the applicant uh and any professionalists sworn in. >> Okay. Um, and before we swear in, just want to note for the record that notices and mailings have been reviewed and we need to be statutory requirements for the board has jurisdiction to hear the applications.
>> Thank you. >> Are they not here? >> Please stand. >> And if you if you're all gonna speak on behalf, we'll just swear you all in. That's okay. >> So, I just need um names. Spell your last name, please. for Stacy Thompson. T
H O N P S O Ner. >> Okay. >> David Caner. A A N A R E K. >> And your old >> homeowner. Neil Chambers. C H A W E R S. Um.
Oh, great. So, Mr. Chambers, you said you're the designer. Are you an architect or >> Yes, my train I was trained as an architect. Architecture at Clemson University. >> Okay. And are you licensed in the state of New Jersey? >> Not with architecture. >> Not with architecture.
>> Um, so what testimony will we be providing tonight? >> Um, overview of the design. >> Okay. Um, okay. So, it's not not expert witness, but witness. Fair enough.
>> Okay. Um, so do you all swear or affirm that the testimony you're going to provide this evening will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Please proceed. Who wants to start?
>> Like an overview of what we're looking to do and then I'll turn it over to you. >> That'd be great. Uh my wife Dr. Jia Thompson and I have been living in town in this house uh since 2009. We're actually previously before the commission in 2015 or thereabouts. Um
where we were doing a major project and um through that I think we really learned the requirements that we needed to uh to adhere to um and and appreciated what the the commission was trying to get to. And as a result when we were looking to do this project um we
really tried to craft our plans to adhere to the design and character of our house. Um the prior project that we did resulted after we did more the work with a basic uh patio in our back with actually
having a half wall um that we thought was seating area. But as it turned out and as we lived through with in the backyard was really a limiting factor with our usability of the yard. Um and so we retained Neil Chambers Chambers design um really with an open idea of
just can we do better with the yard um for usability and also maybe bringing in some more native planting. Um, and through a lot of iteration, we ended up with looking to put in a modest pool and using part of our half of our garage as
opposed to having the car bay, having more of a facing um area into the yard, uh, more of a lounge area. So, not having anything on that would face differently into the street. It would look the same from the street perspective, but having some more usability into the backyard space.
With those two ideas in mind, a lot of the other things that we have now presented, including changing a little bit of the uh driveway and the patio really done then for trying to not trying but to conform to our lot coverage. So there was a lot of extra
work that we tried to do to manage that those requirements. So, um, we the the the end result is we were just looking to do something that, um, improved our our backyard, the usability, and really looking forward to getting started.
>> Great. Thank you. You want to walk us through some of the changes here? We >> Sure. Um so in the the drawing you can see that um a lot of the decisions were driven by uh m making sure that the
impervious coverage of the site was not um doesn't go over the impervious of of um allowances. Um that was one of the big that was a big concern because of storm water issues that are in Milburn. Uh
from that though, the other aspect was to try to make the backyard more usable and more just more of a have a more of a flow. Right now the current conditions is that it's very chocked up and it's not really used very well. There's an old play set that would be removed. And
then the real idea is um with the pool, there's also a deck that would be a new deck would be put in uh to really create multiple spaces where people could gather and really be able to use this
space, the overall backyard. The way I like to always say is like, you know, our backyard should be the biggest room in our house. And so this whole idea of uh you know really in incorporating the overall space. So the garage is um you
know garages in this area are often used for storage and not for cars. And so we were looking at maintaining as as David was saying, one side of the the garage um for a car, but then the other side would be more of a outdoor pavilion that
would allow them to both be outside but under shelter. Um the from a from a kind of a how is that garage being changed? We're not really changing anything except the doors. So the roof is staying
the same. The front of the of the garage is staying the same. It's basically maintaining its its character only. But there are two large um biffold doors that are planned to allow this the two sides of the of the the garage to open
during warm season so that it can feel really to kind of blur the line between indoor outdoor. Just to be clear, those are additional doors back and not changing the current forward facing doors. >> Correct. I tried to make it clear that
they are actually facing they of the two of the four sides of the garage. Those two walls are actually facing away from the street and will will we felt would maintain a character of the
space as it is. Um, you did receive Barton's report and Matt, if you could go through that with us. Um, there were something that you guys were recommending. >> Yes. I don't have it in front of me. Um, >> can we give you a cop?
>> Yeah, if you don't mind, that'd be very helpful. >> Thank you. I guess I'll just read down through the findings recommendations. Number one, HPC requires door and skylight manufacturer in specification to approve. So really just any cut sheet
for both of those. >> Yep. >> Perfect. Yeah. So you know if you can send them our way we can approve them. Uh and then number two, picking and siding to match. the all red wood substitute. >> And I just just to comment on that in
the drawings we indicate that we will be using natural woods. So you know um there is no sighting going to be taken away in terms of except where the doors are. We're not changing the siding. So any repairs to the siding or any kind of detail that have to be replaced would
stay in. We wouldn't be changing that at all. So that was you know but just you know we are you're what you what you recommended was already part of the design uh concept for that that >> just for clarification no composite
stuff on that. Okay, great. >> We typically use sustainable materials. Um, that's one of our my background is sustainable design and so we do typically always use sustainable options unless there's absolutely no no um
alternative. >> Okay. >> And then finally, because of the scope scope of work, architectural construction documents submitted for a building permit will also be submitted to the historic preservation commission in PDF format. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I mean, just it's sorry, just to say like we wanted as clients and the as a team, we really wanted to come to you. One of the reasons we didn't submit um the the the door specs was that if there were any concerns, any questions, we
wanted to hear from you first before we kind of selected them. Uh we do want or they the idea is to have Bold goers, which are, you know, doors that kind of, you know, kind of and really open a really nice space.
It's a really great way to do it. Um, >> so uh let me see something else for >> so we're we're clear with the stipulations. Um, >> yes. And then there was one more stipulation that we talked about this morning. Just also a spec sheet of stone
stairs or an example or some type of material would be be helpful. Yeah, that's usually uh we usually use a techco block rapinado which is very classic look. We use it a lot for historic spaces
because it it kind of it kind of walks that line between kind of modern but also traditional. It's a really nice way to blend the two concerns of >> and that's acceptable magma. >> I'm sorry, what kind of material is that?
It's a a concrete stone for steps to the the digital >> step. >> Oh, the the the manufacturer is tech. >> The the type of step that they use.
>> It's really great. >> So, with that said, do we have any questions, commissioners and professionalist comments? So, so can I ask that there's a deck that's being developed, correct? >> Is that like currently there's a patio,
but it's now going to be a raised step attached to the house. >> It it will be. Yes, it is. It's attached to the house. It's only 18 inches high. >> All right. So, it's um right now what there is is more of a kind of a three
step stoop coming off and then onto a pa patio. that's going to be removed and then the deck is going to be pushed through the against the back of the house. Um, and a lot of that is about like shading and providing shading at that spot that the shade of the house
will actually let the owners and the guests and whatnot be able to sit in the shade in the middle of July when it's super hot. That was one of the reasons that it got it does that. But it's not the pl the profile itself is only 18 in. In addition, it allows us to save space
on a stoop, which we sort of lose that as sitting space as is. And so, we were able to conserve some space for lots of coverage by kind of incorporating the steps into the patio. >> So, the deck isn't going to create a problem for you from a building coverage perspective. Looking at drawing, it
doesn't seem so, but have you done that analysis? >> Yeah. Well, I will say that was a big part of this. We really wanted to stay under um they actually when they did their original edition they got a variance for going over and we've
actually pulled it back down 35%. So >> um >> I was advised that they don't give a second variance. So >> I mean I really like I mean as a from a sustainable perspective it's always value. I mean for me I just want to make I want to keep the storm the storm water
is a big problem. you know, as you guys know, Milbour has experienced really big problems. So, it's like anything that we can do to try to, you know, make that less of an issue, the better.
>> Great. >> I have a number of questions mainly because um I can't get a perspective of the whole house. So when you're making these changes sort of verbally without seeing sort of the construct of the back stoop down and seeing that it's it's
hard for me to visualize particularly the transition from the driveway you know as you would go up you know sort of how it's going to sit so that drawing here and I mean not that it's a big big deal but it's just it's hard for me to sort of follow to see um you know what
you would actually see from the road you know looking forward like looking towards the garage because I know that you're going to excavate the driveway and are you patching the driveway and leaving like a new seam line there because you you talked about that. Is it going to just be like a severe seam line
on the driveway or are you leaving the driveway when you do it? >> So the plan would most you know would be to when we remove the asphalt what the area that's removed will become softcape which would become grass or >> Okay. Oh, so you're removing it and
>> we're removing block covers. >> Oh, I see. And are you doing Belgian block to edge it or is it block now? >> Okay. >> From the street, what you can see is directly to the two bays of the garage.
And we actually behind the the house there's a third or half of a extra space. Is that half of that space that that is behind our house? and also to the side of where we got garagees.
We're just so that >> so it'll basically probably where the the driver should have ended before. We're just going to have that line. >> Yeah. I mean I I mean that would you know because that because that's something that's a visual from the from
the street. I mean, I'm sure it'll And then, you know, just understanding how is how are the stairs going to roll in like you know where the fence is remaining where it is or you and then you so the steps are like within the backyard. Okay. So, you're not going to see them from the
>> from the front and then I had to just question I had some questions because actually you had looked at this in the minor review committee. So, the fire pit area that you had on your renderings is that gone like that's in the backyard. I I swear I saw a fire pit somewhere that
was existing. Are you ripping that out or maybe I'm just crazy? >> There's no fire. >> It just looked like there was like a >> I think you've been talking about putting one in the back corner, but it was going to be a temporary structure anyway. So >> Oh, okay. Okay. Because I just was like wondering if it was going to be impervious or not impervious. Um and
then um the pool is not fenced, right? I mean the yard. Okay. Okay. And then I mean that's more of his own thing, but um uh and then the other thing I couldn't get a sense of I mean obviously the windows
you know are going to be in the back and side of the garage. How does that impact the neighbors with you know with these large windows like how many feet away are are you from the property line at that point? I'm just thinking from a visual perspective from somebody like
looking in um you know how close the house is because I don't get a sense of that from the drawings. >> Um let me show you. >> Yeah. Okay. I mean I can show everybody. Sorry. >> So So um
>> Christine and Ariel here too. >> Yeah. No, I saw that. I just was trying to I was just trying to see like you know is this going to be like in some front of somebody's kitchen and there's a giant window you know >> that >> so that maybe everybody can see >> yeah I know it's a small drawing but
>> thanks I just that was just one of the questions >> um so uh this is the garage >> just let you know this is the way that the the >> the driveway is going to be >> it's this wall
>> oh It's far. Okay. Yeah. It's on the other side. >> Yeah. So, it's it's act and there's actually a new wooden fence that runs the entire length. So, >> in terms of like visual it wouldn't there's there's no visual impact from other neighbors.
>> Okay. And then on the pool like is that a fully flush? Is the pool fully flush with the ground or is it elevated up because you you're you created it you dropped an image in there which isn't really part of pool design. was more like aesthetic. >> What?
>> It said okay. I wasn't sure. Thank you. Thank you so much. >> Do you have any other questions? >> Uh, yeah. I just have a simple question. It's kind of based similar to what Christine was talking about. So, um, if
you're getting you're getting rid of all the brick that's back there that's all being ripped out, that's going to be gone and there's going to be grass. Is there going to be a walkway from the driveway through the fence to the deck or around the deck or that? It's just
going to be grass. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Hampton school, you know. >> Okay. I was just wondering. >> Yeah. >> It's a little bit more It's a little less formalized in some way, but a lot more kind of
>> minimal. >> Yeah. mineral, but also it gives it a little bit more of a natural feel. You know what I mean? So it doesn't it's not hard escaped everywhere. >> Are you putting any pe like pee gravel or anything to catch the rain water since you're not going to have like by
the house? I mean it's not requirement. I was just curious like when you're lifting that up. But we work >> and I think having the construction drawings and having to go through building right they'll be able to advise
you again that's why it's important you know construction drawings are important um certainly I don't know you have any more room to keep improving this house but maybe moving forward a conceptual so you do understand but we really need to
see as you can see were struggling sometimes without construction drawings, but I feel comfortable with Matt Barton um you know making sure that you filled your applications. So you fill your applications here. Um so um
there aren't any more questions? >> No. >> So now I'm going to ask is there anyone in the audience for this application? >> Alison, you might ask two quick questions. >> Absolutely. >> Um so I'm just kind of What is the distance from the the wood deck to the
pool? >> Uh, I don't know. >> Okay, that's it's not like crazy important. And then the same thing with uh so this deck around the pool will definitely be the same stone that will be used on the stairs or is it different? >> It is. It's actually it it matches the
stairs. >> Okay. Yes. Perfect. >> All right. >> Great. And you'll confirm. >> Yeah. >> Thank you very much. So again, anyone in the audience? Okay, we're opening door. Hearing none.
Um would anyone like to make a motion to approve this application with the um information >> for the windows, the doors,
the blocks. So I think >> yeah to speak like the trimming is up windows on the skylight. >> Yeah. Construction of the building. >> Yeah. Skylights, the biffold doors, >> whatever the trim, which I imagine will be wood.
>> Yeah. I think there's pretty basic trim on the garage anyways, just to confirm it. >> Okay. And construction drawings uh in a PDF format. And then also information on the >> tech materials. I want to say techno.
>> Great. Okay. So, do I hear a motion to approve this application with these changes? >> Yeah. Motion to approve with all the stated changes. >> Thank you. Do I hear a second? >> Allison Campfield. >> Yes. >> Brad Jenkins. >> Yes.
>> Harry Rosen. >> Yes. >> Sen. >> Yes. >> Chris King. >> Yes. >> Chalabada. Yes. >> Thank you. Good luck with your guests. >> All right. So, application number two,
we have moved to January 8th. So, we will now move to application number three. Number 6268, Chestnut Place Walk number 21104, lot number four, is a contributing property in the third park
district. Uh this is a regulatory application to construct a house additions and other associated exterior improvements. Can we >> the professionals >> HS >> I'm sorry >> is it HS
>> next time I'll >> sorry about that. >> No that's okay. So we're gonna swear you in. Is that okay? Anyone who's going to speak on behalf? >> All right. So, I need your full name. Spell your last name, please.
>> Sure. Ross Prren. My A R E N T Z M A N. And I am the homeowner. >> The new AV guy. >> Um, Daniel Juvenette. Um, D A N I A L U B I N E P.
and your role with uh architect >> and are you licensed in the state of New Jersey? >> I am. >> Okay. Is your license in good standing? It is. >> Okay. Um can you give the commission the benefit of your educational and professional background, please? >> Thank you very much. Uh I think I was uh
before this board about two years ago, possibly via Zoom. Um, going back in time, uh, got my undergraduate degree from Syracuse University and then my master's degree from NGIT 1995, licensed in 2001,
and I practice primarily residential architecture um, here and in the surrounding neighborhoods. >> Great. Please proceed. Oh, wait. Gonna swear you in. Okay, >> I want to move forward right there. I like your style.
>> All right. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're going to provide this evening will be the truth. The whole truth to nothing but the truth. >> I do. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Uh I'm the homeowner. Um very excited to be here and thank you for your time. It's been uh seven years that I've been
waiting to be in front of you all. Um, I got here on a wrong turn going into the Short Hills Mall when I lived in the city with my wife and I came into um the neighborhood of where we are now on a Chestnut and I grew up in Northern New Jersey and when my wife and I drove
through the neighborhood, we were like, "Oh my god, what is this place?" And it was our dream to live here. um because of the character of it and um we used to park in the Christ Church neighbor uh parking lot, walk around with our two kids pretending what it would be like to
live here. 2020 we were lucky enough to land on a chestnut and um part of what that was is really the reason why I think we got the house. I don't know if anyone knows the tanzies that live there in the house before us Dr. Tanya are some friends of ours. Um we wanted to
preserve what made that house special. Um, our family has grown. We have three children now, all in Glenwood or actually, I'm sorry, two are in Glenwood. One is in Christ Church and we are really excited to be here because this is home and we want to make sure that we have the memories to do that uh
based on our growing family. um and making sure that we have we utilize the space outside that we have. Um because we're trying to keep them off screens and we want to give them a home where we can all be together to celebrate because that's really at the end of the day what's important is the memories that
you create together and um that is why we are here today um to kind of talk about how to make that dream come true um and to get your feedback um and understand what we have to do to make it this work for both of us. So, I appreciate your time uh and reviewing
this application. Um I do not have an architecture background, so I will not call technical. I'm just a homeowner. Um I will pass it to Danny. But >> you're welcome. Thank you. >> Um thank you very much. >> One request before you start. Sorry. Can
you just push that in frame so that our commission member there can see it clearly? Yeah, it's just kind of on the very >> edge. Just want to make sure you can see forward a little. >> And while you're doing this, this was previously submitted, right?
>> You know, I would like to um if I may submit this as a new exhibit because I have some additional photographs that I recently took and I have some changes after we've gotten Arman's memo. So, I'd like to submit this as a as a
>> Okay. Um, so A1, how many how many pages or photographs? >> There's 13 slides and there's a series of uh >> some new photographs, some new images based on the comments. Like I said, got there's 13 sheets. >> Okay. So, you'll just need to provide us
with a digital copy after tonight's hearing. >> Yes. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Uh, short story is that we'd like to do an addition to the rear of the home. Twotory edition of the home. uh and preserve and or not uh make any changes
to the current elevation. Um but because there's a you know very very very small visual um as you walk down Chestnut up side of the home and and potentially because we are contributing home in a
historic park district uh that we're here tonight to to seek your blessing and approvals and like Ross said we're we're certainly uh want to get some feedback. I think this is a fantastic opportunity. It's almost like now I have a
bunch of you know we're all designing it together and for for the transit. So that being said has some images. Uh this is original uh 1954 photograph that cartoon was actually uh provide and
probably around the 80s uh was when they did this edition. I'm sorry this 1981 listing this one is today. We think somewhere after the 80s once a party uh they went ahead and made some transformations. They added the second floor above in the existing garage
and they did an addition to the rear of the home and it's a must have worked for them at the time but it's a kind of a peculiar meandering addition. I would like to show you that if if uh you would like and we'll show you the
existing conditions. But what's very interesting about the site is obviously we're on Ches Street as Chess Place. It's beautiful um variety of different architectural styles. Uh the first one that's super interesting is number 37
Forest which is here. but because of uh maybe the street and certainly the front yard setback were in their backyard. So uh in terms of like communicating and talking to this house besides this amazing
evergreens, this is this is a photograph that shows it during the beautiful leaf moments, but I have some images that I took took recently and it's super super private. Um, this a Chestnut place is is really quite
isolated from the neighbor to the left, the neighbor to the right and certainly anybody who's this is northern and I walked northern and I couldn't even tell where I was at where the crises are. So, you know, we feel uh lucky uh certainly
for this project, but also for the cred that it's very well isolated isolated um house and then certainly the addition being in the backyard. We felt like there was no negative impact to the neighbors neighborhood. And so, we're going to try to work very hard to
preserve. It's a post-war colonial revival style home with very simple detailing. So, uh, potentially with the twotory edition, you know, it's it's starting to change its character a little bit. So, we'd like to based on Bartman's, uh, comments and considerations
reduce the detail and reduce some of the kind of style styliz want, but then ideally maintain the spaces that we want. So, let me get to get to that. I think certainly if we needed to see this this is I kind of stood in the backyard and I walked
around and took these images of the backyard so you could see how very private is. So this would be the adjacent home to the right. This is what how the current house is today. There's a one-story addition to the back with a balcony.
And this is obviously I'm going to say kind of winter uh scenario with no leaves on the trees. And then if I move to the right, then we start to open up and we see the neighboring property, 37 Forest Drive. So very well insulated. I I think the
only thing that we share would be maybe the view of 37's >> pool house. But again the point of the story of these images is to show you that very
well screened from the neighbors. Okay. The project is all located in the rear of the house. And if I may and and I'll take you through it very quickly, but let me just show you the existing conditions that that we
have. The Beyond this red line that I drew, this is for sure the existing home and this is for sure the addition that was put on. So they did a crawl space and it kept the kitchen small isolated here.
And so of course when I was hired to help them expand and that work well with function, it was okay. We need a bigger kitchen, a breakfast room, family room. and the family being here down this long hallway very disjointed and there was a
way to incorporate their deeds and this is exist this existing first floor so little uh certainly it's nice to have the space but a little awkward then on the second floor this is where it gets really the existing second floor they remodeled
I guess it was a fourbedroom two bath house they turned it into a over the garage and did a master bedroom, commandeered the two bedrooms on this side and created a sitting area and a sitting area and it's just and then they
left the small bathroom. So, a very interesting scenario with two bedrooms. So, the goal was to uh reconfigure and reexplore some options for the existing house. And now I guess I jump into what
is proposed. So on the first floor and so to do this, we don't have to, but to do it right, we really have to remove the addition that was put on sometime in the 80s and expand now. So we'll take
the kitchen out of here. We'll expand into the backs of the kitchen breakfast room. Then we'll move into the family room. And then we'll maintain the we'll maintain the guest bedroom side. And then we'll have an office
part of this. This is where uh obviously this is a lawn, but would love a covered um outdoor space on the patio. And then this would be a nice open trellis. And then we have a little barbecue area
here. And so that's our first floor. And when we get to the second floor, the idea is to the idea is to reconfigure the existing uh second floor. And now we've got all the kids and it's a small room, but
we'll use as office, but we'll have four bedrooms. One, two. These are primarily the same. Turn the this back into a bedroom. We'll put another bedroom here. We'll have a jacket. So, this is part of the existing architecture and there'll be no change to the front of the house as a result of
that. And now we get to the master bedroom suite. So, abandoned laundry room on the second floor, his and her closets. We've got the bedroom and the master bath. And then we would love to be able to
um because they do spend a lot of time in the backyard. It's private and they really enjoy sitting out there. There's a balcony now that they use. uh that's um not covered. So we would like to have this as a covered area for them to enjoy
more rain, snow, things like that. So I know that certainly Bart Tom's memo that seems like a part of the puzzle that doesn't belong and and so I took that those comments into consideration and we had
the two days to try to come up with something a little bit more pleasing and really work with maybe more of just the simple detailing. Um it's okay. So again, um this is the addition that's
the breakfast room, dining room, open trellis just because pretty and then this this piece that we would love to have and I know that there's um questions, comments about materials and
window fenestrations and things like that. So for sure the existing house has a wood shingle uh cedar shingles that we'd like to keep. And then so the new fire will be the match existing. And so
we would match the existing corner boards except for except for using wood. We'd like to use an AAC corner board but have the wood siding. and anywhere that would traditionally be uh applying we would like to use the AAC and the rate boards and sockets and
other issues. So that might be something that we're open to uh what the board recommends and how they deal with this in the past. The other issue would be the existing house has slain. The front of the house
has slain. There's no um no reason to change it other than might be extra. The back of the house we would keep the main roof is slate, but the the roof that would go on to these pieces and it's not a particularly steep roof.
We would like to do an asphalt shingle that I guess they call slway line. Um, and again hopefully because of its visibility, which is very little, that the main roof that sits up here could be an asphalt shingle. Um, and there's
another part of the home which currently has slate, which is this existing one-story piece. We manipulate the roof, we have to reconfigure. So the thought there because it's so well hidden and they don't get to enjoy it
that maybe that's an opportunity to save some money and use the asole shingles there. Barring the comments this piece uh so just just I think this was a a nice little uh touch is that the second floor
edition steps in on the second floor creating a little roof line here so it's not like this massive box. This would be a nice opportunity for some slate. I think the friends would appreciate it if if if you had a chance to see it from chestnut place might see that. So we
would propose we slate here but kind of ask for permission to be able to do the as up here. In terms of windows, we are definitely going to do Anderson 400 with the bulldo light which seems appropriate for for what's
on the house. Now there's a mixed bag of uh on the front of the house it's 8 over8 uh window grills on the side the house the existing house moves to 6 over6 we just kind of kept that theme but again um not something that um we
feel strongly about the board does you know certainly look at the different grow patterns um we've gone ahead and added shutters which weren't there before in the package Uh so we would propose on the existing side which doesn't have it actually looks really
good. >> We would add the shutters and then on our new part adding some shutters. >> And again there's some other interesting details that I normally do but doesn't mean that I have to do which is I try to make the breakfast room feel like a sun
room. So I kind of detailed it which is not really compatible with the front part of the house. Um, but often, you know, the fronts are a little bit more stern and the back of the house is usually can get a little bit more playful in terms of architectural styles and but not a
I guess a sword to die on if if you felt like that was not appropriate. Um, so yes, we would love your feedback and be able to help us get them the spaces that we >> Thank you. >> Awesome. Um, we'll start with Matt if
you don't mind me. Yeah. >> Get your steps in. >> Okay. Again, I'll just read right from the findings recommendations from the memo. >> Yes. >> U we recommend that this application requires more information be approved at this time, including window door specifications. What type of siding?
There seems to be a mix of asphalt and imitation slate shingles. Some real slate is proposed to be removed. There's stone facing at the addition for drilling material. Uh there seems to be a lot of composite ASAC and vinyl materials being proposed leaving the
left side as is works fine. The massing of the kitchen mainly but requires more finesse detailing to better relate to the original house. The rear porch seems to give an unsolicited grand door. The rear facade then seems out of place. Architecturally take more cues from the
original penistration and simple post detailing. Window shutters only remain at the front of the facade. Why not on the other facade for continuity? Guess that's kind of a mouthful. >> Yeah. Yeah. I get I get it. So basically
uh it really comes down to the use of Well, let's start with the roof, right? So um I guess one uh well the main roof I do believe that it's so high and it's developed that no one would benefit from
use of slate on the main roof. Um however the board felt uh certainly I think it's a wonderful idea to add slate to this portion that the board felt strongly about this area not um I spoke to Ross and he hands in terms of uh the
materials to be used. So on the railing on the second floor um I specified a composite but a very expensive or I should say more high-end composite material only because what's there now is a wood and it's falling apart and
maintenance. But of course with both glossing extension preferably seeing railings and all the other components that make up the trim. It's really all the trim details.
If we did ASAC and we painted it, that being said, sometimes the ASAC out of the box and no one paints it, it looks plasticky. >> Yeah. >> But you put a coat of paint on it and bunny the holes and all of a sudden until you really get into it, you don't
know it's it's not wood. So, I guess we would definitely testify that we would paint a if allowed. Um and certainly the railing because I would like to do beautiful railing if we see a railing.
Um and then I don't know if this is the appropriate place but we would also testify that we would maintain all the landscaping on the property. So most of the trees are ours and we would like to say that we would maintain it. So if anything
died we replace it fell something back. >> Yes. Um, certainly I have some questions that I can start out. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> Great. So, on one of the photos it looked like you had a flat roof. Is the
Is that a flat roof on that? >> No, it it's a >> just a low. >> Maybe it's this guy. >> No, the picture. See if I can ident the one next. The photograph to the left. >> Yeah. To the left. Yeah,
>> not these rendered images, but um >> No, it looks flat. >> This this thing >> that's just because the perspective sort of looks flat >> because it looks like I actually to Alan's point, I was going to actually ask you a similar question. Can you just
focus I'm not trying to interf >> that image there that shows the peak over the the roof I mean the second floor deck area. It's like you're not seeing that and that's why you're seeing it as a flat roof. feels like that image needs to be rendered in there that because I was going to ask you.
>> Yeah, I like to show the perspective as if you're standing on the ground. You see, so obviously if you twodimensional >> uh textual drawings of this side of the house, it's a significant >> uh >> Okay. Yeah, that's
>> elevation, but because of its pitch and because of the angle, that's why I I kind of suggest that, you know, it's not necessary to put this way and primarily because of that, I didn't realize. Yes. >> So, can you just give me approximate
square footage of what you have currently >> and what you'd like to change then to the asphalt? >> Yes. And I think it uh Oh, I do. Great.
I have a road plan. So, I would like to illustrate the areas that would remain slate. So, um this is the front of the house. >> So, this is the slope facing chest in place. This is the front
that would remain slate. The back would remain slate. We'd have to remove some slate to be able to the addition on. So, this would be slate. And then this stays like so what's in question would be this you know
edition which is on the second floor are pretty high. We like to do this as the asphalt and then this is where we'd like your guidance. Right now it's it's this is all slate and we have to manipulate the roof. We have to raise it a little bit and so that's the conversation was like
well no one gets to see it. It's too muddy. Let's go to asphalt. Like I said, not a um not a real important uh image for us. The the only part of the roof that you'd
probably see from the backyard is this this this piece, which is, if I may, um, this side, but you may see this uh this from the backyard, but again, it's a very shallow pitch. I wish it was deeper so you could really take advantage of
the slate. But um so this one story edition guess what you would like what would you like to see there? >> Um did you consider any other except asphalt? Did you consider possibly
>> or copper scene? Did you consider any of that? I'm assuming that cost is a big player here. Yeah, >> we can't take in consideration. I know, >> but >> I mean ideally because the house is, you know, so lovely that
we try to keep it all in keeping whatever you you add to it. >> Um >> your wife loves the slate. So I would say if if the asphalt is not something that we like, I think we would commit to the slate. There's that one section that we already have that's next to the
balcony that is not slate. on the petition. >> No, I'm right behind. >> And how how old is that slate? Do you know? Was that original to the house? >> Uh, no. I've had to get me. It's up there a bunch of times. >> Right. But you've been able to keep the
majority of it or >> uh I've had to replace. >> Yes. >> Over time. >> But when was the house built again? >> 1949. >> 1949. >> 49. So we're getting up there. >> So this right here is not slate. >> Okay. So this part right here is not slate and that's where the balcony the
current balcony is. >> But there is standing seam copper over the bay window. Right. Okay. >> Yeah. >> I mean maybe as a as a what I think it would be beautiful too is that one story addition on the side which is the most visible
portion of the house. I mean this would be this would be a nice place for some. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The reason I'm asking is because you say it's not visual today, right? It's not
visual by anyone today. So I like to look at the whole house as the whole piece. Um, and try not to have multiple different things unless it's in keeping of what you're trying to do in that back
space. It is kind of an outdoor space. So, >> changing that slightly, but not trying to duplicate it with another like asphalt shingle that looks like. You see what I'm saying? So, >> adding a little more, you know, detail
or something kind of really spectacular, >> uh, would be my suggestion. But we'll leave that. >> Uh, so right now we have 8 over8 on the windows in the front. >> Yes. >> But we have six over six on both sides. Yes. Currently pull up.
>> And back. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um most of course in the in the breakfast room and the master bathroom uh to get more glass area less grills but again
>> okay I'm just clarification I'll let other people and the French doors also whether we >> yeah that could be influenced upon that is um in many divided likes
door, but that certainly turn into a 18. They're tall doors. If we wanted to make it more traditional, we'd have three lights across the top and then
one, two, three, four, five, 15. I'll let the other commissioners weigh in on that. Again, you want a wow factor no matter what you're going to be setting out there. You're going to, you know, you want the front of the house and the back of the house to kind of
sink together, right? Um so we are kind of missing those details. Um this evening but I will let the other commissioners kind of >> Yeah.
>> Um yeah I I I agree about the slate. Um I know it's a big price difference. I'm sure that's but you know especially in areas where you will see whether or not you see it from the road or not. Um, I would like to see slate on the majority of the roof. Yeah.
>> If there's some copper, some close seam copper somewhere, that's okay. Especially since there is, even though I think that window is going to be gone, the one bay window that has it above it right now. >> Yes. >> But still, I I think that stays within the design. Um, the only thing I would
comment on, I I would like to see the a wooden railing up there rather than a composite or plastic to that visual. um with the windows back there and also really maybe kind of the style of the overhang of the balcony if
just from my perspective from a style you know the front of the house where you have that nice um I'm lost for words >> yes >> something like that expanded instead of
cuz when I see the back of that house and especially with that curve >> well that was the best It looks that it's that was >> it looks kind of stubborn to me. Like it looks like something that would be on the back of it house or something like >> it doesn't really work with the detailing front. So that was a a
fantastic >> I would think something if you could work on that to make it a little more colonial >> so it flows from the front to the back of the house. That's really that's just minor design detail. That's not really a big thing. um the windows.
Yeah, it's it's it's difficult to have symmetry, especially with the eight over eight and also on these big, you know, these big large doors. Um if anybody else has any comments about that, I I don't have any issue with the the size of them. I understand why you want the
light. You know, they're they're going to be those byfold doors, right? That would open completely on the back there at the bottom. Uh right now I we plan well upstairs is a pair of quad sliders. So okay >> they're really pretty the handles come together and then open on the lower
level we had French glass doors. >> Okay two one branch then a station and then the French. >> Okay. So the middle station. >> Yes. Okay. >> Um I think that's Yeah, I think that's about all of my comments and yeah just
some sort of symmetry with the windows. Um, I know you have some 6x sixes, but especially since you're getting rid of a lot of the windows as it is, >> if you could find something could continue that 8 by8 in as many places as possible. Obviously, there's some
windows that can handle 8 by8. >> Yeah, if they can handle 8 by8, I I I would personally like to see that because it just carries on the theme of the house. Um, so yeah, I that would be a suggestion I would make, but otherwise otherwise I think overall the design
itself is how you design it. The float, everything looks great. I just think it's just some small design pieces and really the the the asphalt shingles instead of a slate. I would much rather see slate on the majority of the roof. >> Yeah, I would say this would be a great
opportunity for the slate. There's slate on there now. So basically the roof ends here >> and we have to extend it. >> So as being price consciousness but I think it >> yeah trust I know how much >> yes
>> you can just it's 100 year right what they say. >> Oh yeah >> repairs and maintenance and stuff >> and then uh what's exciting I guess is this is the existing roof. That's one a big detail to me is like if you're in the back of the house and you're looking at it from a certain
angle see this asphalt and then it's going to go in slate. >> I just don't think that's going to look that great >> just from a visual perspective. >> I I just real quick going back to the uh AAC any flat surfaces on some of those
trims because my experience has been that you put a nail in it or a tack or whatever it expands a bunch. So, for me, real wood >> really works best on all of these trim pieces.
>> I I don't know about you, but how I found out was I'm hanging decorations >> and realize that when you poke holes in it, now you have something that's twice the size, >> right? >> Uh so, you know, you might take that into consideration, too. I prefer more
of a natural painted prior to going up. Um you don't It's not like you have a lot there. >> You're adding some more. Certainly the the pillars in that's a composite which >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Um but I will say any of the big flat surfaces my experience has been eventually it will take on water >> decorations. So for us >> I'm telling you I had to learn the hard way. I don't want to learn the hard way. Just call me today.
>> Yeah. But again, I mean, I would prefer cedar or painted. >> Yeah. >> Wood paint. >> Yeah. >> Fine. Pine, >> finger jointing. And >> that'll rot the pine.
>> I mean, you're asking for suggestions and certainly we're going to give them to you. Um, so anyone else? >> Um, I have Oh, are you >> I don't want to. >> Okay. So, um, I totally agree on no ASAC
just because there is a different texture to it. I mean, even if you paint it, it also the the molding profiles are more rounded and they just don't look um as traditional, I guess, is the word I would use. I mean, so I'm kind of like
definitely no finger joined pine because I know situation, but back to the cedar or I mean I'm I'm a fan of brow personally because I don't think it looks fake, but um but that's to everybody else. Um and then um I wanted to ask you um the shutters, are they um
just the louvered shutters, sort of the plantation shutters in the front, and are you doing that consistently in the side? >> Yeah, I was just inspired by what they hadn't found out. Oh, I just didn't I just was wondering what you guys decided to do. >> Well, I would I would like to amend what they have.
>> Oh, okay. So, they're not they're not tellers. >> They're like a panel. There's more. >> Okay. And then um and then going back to some of the I think it was your comment on the railing. Um you know, maybe doing some type of brwork railing that would
tie into that sort of colonial Americana kind of piece. um that it's just a little bit more interesting on the back. >> Yeah, that was a great So, we did make some adjustments on the >> um >> just a heavier ballastry like just so it's it's sitting more widely. I mean,
and then also back back into the natural materials of course. And I totally agree. I mean, look, it's my house. I'd probably not be able I I I agree on the um this the all slate. I think it's going to look very patched together. So
like where you can put in copper st stand standing seam even a metal standing seam to me that's you know like a um you know dark chocolate brown would be better than patching with um like you know uh just regular shingles. So that
would be my only other comment. Um and then I wanted to ask you um on what's going on with the ceiling and is that like a woodboard ceiling in that We've we've changed our aesthetic on that.
>> Uhhuh. >> So that used to have a like a slope flat slope. We just keep it flat >> in our new rendering. Apologize. >> Okay. And it's a bboard. It's like just >> Yeah, we'll do a board and ship. But
keep it flat. No. California. >> Oh, okay. Yeah. >> And I'm trying to keep this detailing. >> Um, so and then are you do is there a fireplace? Is this you are. Oh, so this rendering. Okay, that's a change. My bad. I I
>> wasn't following. And I mean, you know, when you look closely at the the molding detailings, you know, it's it's nice. Um I just some I mean, because it's just so white, I can't see all the molding detailings, but um yeah, I think that's
that was my only question. And then I want to ask on the front of the house um the little um tiny roof that hangs over the garage overhang. Is that is that slate or is that shingle right now? >> Oh. Okay.
>> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. There's some an interesting crown molding that exists >> that I can replicate. This this is coming very this is coming a very Let me find a better image. Um,
>> can you pull up the original house? It might be kind of fun to see what was >> Yeah. >> Oh, that is nice. >> Yeah, there's some kind of nice detailing up at the >> That's pretty faceboard here. It's nice. Um, but I that window >> you can't really appreciate it from the
street like when I was so far off. Wait. So in that photo there were blue roof. What's was that the most recent photo on those shutters with the wreath on it? >> Interesting. So I took this the photo that I zoomed in on was from Barton. This is what's existing today. Thank you. That's why I said Lord because this
is what exists today. I think the other image actually. >> Oh that Oh. So it is L. >> Do you have a opinion? >> I don't know. >> Do I think it looks lovely? >> Yeah. What makes it so nice is that that
the heart >> Yeah. Yeah, that works. Yeah, the shutters are important to my wife, so she's awesome. >> I just wanted to take a quick look if I can find the >> Can you pull up the original though, real quick? Just real quick, just to see. >> Yeah, I just It's I apologize. So
blurry. >> The next one over the black and white. >> Oh, the black and white. Yeah, it's interesting. It didn't have that pen in the piece. Yeah, that >> Oh, and actually that colonial sort of design isn't didn't exist in the original.
>> Oh, yeah. >> It just had like little lights. >> Let's see if this is the door. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> So, there's a very cool crown head detail. Very >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. It's like It's almost like that was more of a 70s ad to me. the colonial the second one. >> Yeah, it's not as nice as any original. >> And the fireplace is probably original to the >> house, right?
>> This one? Yes. And then they added a new one we're going to keep as well. >> But you're going to keep the >> We're keeping that one, but it it kind of got swallowed up by the um edition of that states. >> Okay. It's the new one in the back that
you're taking out. >> No, we're gonna keep that's gonna that exists. Um, it's like not even close to the addition. It's on the other side of the room. So, it would be on like this. Yeah. So, it's not going to touch it, >> but stay open.
>> Anyone else have any comments or >> can I can I make a suggestion, >> please? >> We have so much going on here. We're not 100% sure of the decisions that have been made. >> Yes. >> If we could let you go back,
>> carry this application until January. And I'll tell you why. You can then come with all of the suggestions that we've added. You guys have had a chance to talk about it because I think we have spent some of your money here. um talk
about what you can give and take on with the suggestions that we've given you. I know you'd like to hurry up and get this process done. You don't need a variance. So, >> yeah, you're not a variance and we can keep going. We're actually interviewing contractors now. So that process takes
>> we're not ready to date or even submit proposals yet, but we could actively solicit builders and >> and at the same time make those maybe changes that you want to make. You won't have to renotice. We'll put you on for
January the date. >> Uh because right now I'm a little confused too. Where are you going to put where you going to leave? Then just another suggestion on the balcony with the rails, maybe even
capping some of those pieces with copper. Adding a little copper to add, you know, some special detailing there might >> uh be a piece. Also, I would like you to reconsider that front door going back to
the original. >> We'd be happy to, right? I mean, >> are you happy? >> I didn't put I didn't put the front door there. Just this piece like this furniture piece. >> Oh, I didn't put that in. >> No, >> we could get rid of it
>> because he like you know lentil on top. Yeah, that's >> and it will look better with the design you have on the back of the house. I agree with you that if that were to stay maybe picking up that element, but now
that I know it really wasn't original. So this thing right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And so then we'll make some decision about materials and uh roof materials materials. >> Uh what else?
>> We can certainly windows. >> We have it written down too. So right >> fair amount of it. Yeah. Okay. >> Okay. >> And certainly Matt you noted too. >> We we set up another Zoom as well. >> Okay. Thank you. And you also showed one more thing. The the doors, the French
doors, you showed them in black in some of those photos. They're they're white, right? So, let's let's clean this up a little bit so we can all kind of uh make that I walk by this house almost every single day. >> Um >> see our snowman right now. Giant
snowman. >> I love the house. Thank you for taking this on and I think you're definitely in the right direction. So >> yeah, it's gonna be beautiful. >> Yeah. Yeah. Thank you very much. We really care about the character of it.
Just want to make sure that what we promised the pansies and want to do it right by then everybody else. >> And I have a great story to tell about that. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. So another time. >> Next time. Is there anyone in the audience would like to make a comment? We're not voting
on it this evening. We're postponing it. >> Having none. >> So, thank you. >> 8. Okay. January. We have to >> um not but not we have application number
62731 Northern Drive number 21103 lot number six is a contributing property in historic park district. Uh this is a concept. Okay. So asking application to construct a rear existing
garage for windows construct a rear edition for 16 second floor primary suite above garage for us another associated exterior improvement you can have everyone sworn in that'd be great
>> 31 Whoever's going to provide testimony, you could provide uh State your full name and spell your last name, please. >> Sure. Kevin Willings. W I L L N Juliano. G I U L I A N
>> and Mr. Juliana, are you licensed? Are you licensed architect in the state of New Jersey? >> Yes. >> And is your license in good standing? >> Yes. Can you provide the the board with the or educational and professional background? >> Yeah, have a bachelor of architecture from New Jersey institute technology doing single family residential
architecture in the summit short hills Montlair area for the last 18 years or so and I'm also a commissioner of Montlair and histo preservation. >> Well, welcome. Thanks for >> swear us in.
>> Oh, sorry. >> I want to make sure I'm held accountable to tell the truth. >> All right. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony this evening will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing? >> I do. I do.
It's not a wedding, but >> uh good evening. Thank you. And um uh I'm the homeowner along with my wife Tina who can't be here tonight because she's doing some uh mom duties with my daughter in Chicago. Um
uh we're here to talk about what will be our third piece of work on the house since we've lived there. We uh we've lived in Short Hills for 36 years. We lived in this house for 20 28 of the 36
years. Um, and raised all three of our children. I say they're I can't say that I got kids in Glenwood, but I had kids who went through Glennwood and and Melbourne High and so forth. And so, um, the plans are, you know, we we love the
house. We love the neighborhood. It's, you know, even though we're, uh, our kids are grown and moved away, we want to It's a place we want to stay and so forth. We enjoy the the walks around the neighborhood and everything else. Just just not a not a better place to to be.
So, I'm going to pass it on to Nick to talk about the plan, but I'll tell you what the vision is. It's and it's it is a back of the house um change but you know if it was in the front of the house
feel like it it it matches the style and you know for us and we went through a lot of different different versions and surprised they didn't fire me as a client but um you know what what we're trying to do is the the back wing of the
house which is over the threecar garage which is not really a threecar garage. It's the third bay is right up against the house. So, it's it's it's was not really functionally built for that. Um we want to make make it a more
functional garage, but importantly um above it, the wing above it is very low ceilings where it it you know has a knee wall that only comes up and 40 inches on on one side. So, a lot of the interior
space is is lost just because of the low ceiling height. We actually did raise one side of it when we first moved in for my daughter's room and went through the historic commission. Now, we're essentially just raising the whole piece
to have eight eight foot ceilings inside as well as Yeah. I think the other thing is we look at the aesthetic from the back. It was a very plain back of the house and we're just trying to dress it up to have it look as nice
from the back as it feel looks from the the front and sides. And so everything we're doing with materials and everything else is really going to keep keep consistent. And that's really our our goal because that that back is what
we see and we want it to feel feel like uh it is one house and the style is changed and even inside because we went through a lot of designs of you know how that wing how you go through the center hall to get to it and
if you're inside the house it's very historic it's all stained wood and we want it to look like you know that we're not changing the center hall and everything and the the hallway that goes back into that look doesn't look like an addition but looks like just the
continuation of kind of the traditional house house house inside. So that's uh that's our goals. We're you know we just need to expand about 3 and 1/2 ft um for the back to for the the garage
and the window placement and um elevating the minimum. You know, again, we did see other plans where we were it was being raised really high and we didn't really like that because it looked like just a very big
addition and was competing with the the main house and we want it to be a very subordinate piece like it is now, but just just more functional. actually think we're returning some of the work we did 30 years ago back to some more of the
traditional look that it had. So that'll turn >> I would like to make a comment and correct you. There wasn't anything boring about So it's uh very well done. So thank you. >> Yeah. Thanks. So, yeah, Kevin stated, you
know, most of the reason we're here for this project is just really for two practical purposes. One is to just make a more practical realistic threecar garage on the ground floor and just make a more functional ceiling for second floor primary bedroom suite. Um, the
house itself was built in 1931. You can see from the front brick to colonial revival. Um, this piece side here is original. This piece was done in an addition 25 years ago. Um, we have no changes proposed to the front of the
house and really the only piece that you could see from the front property is that on this side of the house, we're just replacing one rotted French door that leads out onto this balcony here. It'll be replaced in kind with the same side, same light pattern, real wood,
divided light, um, just, you know, new so that it's in good condition and current light. There's nothing wrong with it. aesthetically it's just rotting. So that's really the only proposed change on the street and most of the work itself is in the back here and you see on these photos.
This is the piece where we're doing the proposed work. Um this second floor actually is lower than the rest of the second floor of the house. That was what Kevin was talking about preserving the continuity of the mid landing in center hall. Right now, the garage ceiling height is only about 7 and 1/2 ft and
the primary suite sits right above it. We intend to keep that floor level. We did look at earlier options where we made a new taller ceiling height garage, but we didn't really like that this piece was becoming just as tall as the brick piece. We like that the eve line
of the house could still be lower than the main e line on brick massing and that the roof of the primary suite would still remain lower even by lifting it just enough to get an 8ft ceiling height around the mold of second floor in that area. Um, and at the garage level, you
can see, you know, it is a threecar garage here, but the bays are very closely spaced together on the end here. It's right at the corner. So, can't really practically get three cars in this garage and open doors, you know, even get back into the house. So, we're
really kind of just looking to do the minimum amount of addition out towards the back just to be able to get a little bit more elbow room between the cars. The width of the garage will stay the same. We're not coming out any distance this way or out this way on this side.
So sidewalls will stay. We're just extending 3 and 1/2 ft towards the rear. Um on the other side of this piece here, this was the work that was done previously by Kevin and Tina. This side, the primary suite does have a regular
ceiling height because the door is already lifted. The back piece here has a lower that we're maintaining. We're just extending that condition. And essentially what we'd like to do is replicate the higher plate height. The shed dormer on this side. This is the
side where the plate height is only about 3 and 12. And most of the space in here is not really usable because it's kind of just use it as an office storage space right now. There's a bedroom and a bathroom on this side. works with the
ceiling height, but the low height here doesn't work so well. So, we're really just looking to kind of replicate this side. And we are updating the warmer pieces over the windows to hearken back kind of more to the original window
design that was done for the house in 1931. That's this image here, zoomed in shot of this. And then the last picture down here is uh on an further in the rear yard. There's a detached poolhouse that
has a similar arched dormer profile that we're proposing for the new windows on a lifted plate height here. Just these are just some drawings of some of the details that we'll be replicating with the new trim work. Um everything will be done in painted wood,
cedar styling, um cutters to match existing uh slate roof on the new rib piece. We're going to try and preserve some of this slate roof for here because not all of it is original to the house. The slate roof that's on this side is
only about 25 years old. So, whatever tiles we could reuse after demolition, they're good enough condition for them for the new pieces of the roof to do that. So, just a brief overview of the site. Main house driveway comes off on the
right side here. Side entry garage. There's a patio on the left side. All of that remains. All the driveway remains. This little shaded piece here is the 3 and 1/2t addition toward the rear of the garage. And then we're just extending the drive with just enough to be able to
reach the new edge of the an addition wall. There's currently Belgium block curving through the garage which will just remove relay to get to the new part of the garage and the driveways. So just be able to fill in the new area something
to match without having to drive right away. And on sheet number four, you can see the brown floor. Not really much here. Just showing what's being removed in terms of the existing garage. The second floor plan just shows kind of really the
challenge of the space on the right side. This entire wall here is only about three and a half feet where the ceiling slopes start. So they don't really get a lot of view out of this whole half this whole zone. So what we're really looking to do is just kind of fill this all in with 8 foot ceiling
and be able to have the bathroom and bedroom here, bathroom and closet here rather and then push the bedroom to the back. same width as what's existing just extend bring happy toward the ground floor
the garage here now kind of more practically fit three cars still snug but at least you know you can get in and be able to open a car door get into the house with the garage three new overhead doors here we like the idea of the single doors
like three of them just because it looked a little bit more original to the house rather than a double wide door and then a single door. So, we're kind of replicate what they did originally with three individual panel doors. Um, we're still determining whether or not we're going to do glass lights in the upper
part of the garage doors, but even if we don't, they'll still be panel doors be a flush door in any case. So, we welcome your comments on that for, you know, for the full submission next month. On the second floor, this main staircase
remains. This is the mid landing that you access the primary suite for. So, this is a bit lower than the rest of the second floor. Come in hallway, primary bathroom to the left, closet to the right, and then bedroom back here with a
roof shape here at the edge that kind of mimics the same roof shape that's currently there now. And there's two vocal windows over that landing that are original to the house that we're going to maintain. New roof that we built to go steeper. We'll just keep the windows
in place and we'll kind of thread the new roof around it, retrim windows so that they can remain for the inside. >> Real real quick, and I don't mean to interrupt, but there's a little So the 8 foot will include dormers in it. Is that
correct? for the right now it's setting at three feet right >> how it will go you'll go the full eighth and then the dormers how will they play a role >> the dormers won't really be expressed on the inside we're going to do a flat ceiling >> pretty sure the dormers will just be on
the exterior double drained over the roof um we're not sure yet in the primary measure we'll go up at all you know maybe with slope starting at 8 ft and then maybe 10 ft in the middle okay >> but the dormers themselves won't have like and seal underneath on the inside. >> Yeah.
>> Can I just ask one question? Are they proportionally smaller like the overall specs on the face of the window on the dormer? >> Just opening the the on your opening like like just the window like just the flat
rendering is the opening out the same as the original. That's all >> the measurements. Yeah, just measurements. The width. I was just curious. >> Probably wired. >> Oh, they're wire. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Slightly maybe just an inch or two
wider. that these are probably about three or four inches taller than the ones that are here on this side. >> So, we come around here main roof here that's pitched from the lower pipe. We're maintaining that by
having a lower view pipe out here. So, this kind of reads all as one big shed door within this steeper route that you'll see from the back view. But all across here, the windows are evenly spaced similar to existing individual garage doors. And again,
we're still playing around with whether or not we have glass panels in those doors, but if we don't, they would be panled maybe more similarly to to what's existing with a smaller panel pattern. We end up omitting glass. Um the old window I was talking about a moment ago
here remains remains in the new design as well. Uh we're carrying the existing brick water table that's on the main house out around to the garage edition. And then when we go out with the addition here, we're mimicking the
original coin detail at the corners. And all that will be done with painted wood trim with the same profiles as the existing rear. So this kind of this drawing kind of really kind of shows everything
here keeping these two heights in the new ignition or just making the roof a bit steeper. So it goes up a little bit higher still much lower house roof. And then on the side this piece already has the shed dormer that's up to the 8 foot
plate height that mostly remains. We're just kind of beefing up the trim a little bit of it so it it is more consistent with the rest of the house and then it get on the side where there currently is there side where it's just the individual pieces and height. And
then on the back we'll have two new garage windows that match the two side ones that currently exist. And we're going to match the casing detail, the overhead panel detail on that window. And then on the rear in the primary measure of suite itself through a
plating window trim and the arched window above which we thought worked well that was done the thousand project 25 years ago on the kitchen. We had a lot of arch work which
we think probably done to kind of be consistent with the original arch. the original house construction elevation here. This one a little more similar to just what's existing. An additional 3 and 1/2
ft here. And we just mostly just kind of reorganized the window pattern so that it's a little more orderly. It's a little chaotic right now. Nothing lines up with anything. So, we have the new windows in the primary bathroom here and the bedroom. We just shift at the garage
windows. In fact, there's a nice center line between the two floors there. Um, continue the water table around here. Um, there'll be down spouts between each of these bays here. Will match the gutters of the main house. And you can
see here, you know, the line of the door still stays about two two and a half people. The eve line of the brick part of the house. And then this is that one front door that we're placing out onto the balcony side wall there.
So that mostly covers it. We welcome your comments and questions, >> suggestions. >> I have a couple questions. Three and a half addition. Is there a reason are you meeting like zoning or was three and a half the break point? We well from our
perspective we didn't want it to look too big and to just you know you know we looked at six eight feet and we looked at going wider and all of that although made the inside much nicer. We just felt like it hurt
the aesthetic of by making that piece just too big and we wanted to keep it smaller and subordinate to the main the main house. >> No, I like it. I was just curious. >> It was really it was really the the external aesthetic and you know we had
to push and pull to get the inside just to you know it was some tradeoffs on the inside. Frankly, we yeah, didn't want to go too far back. >> Started with a bigger one, but then, you know, we had the problem of the primary
suite itself just getting too big. >> Didn't need as much room in the bedroom and the bathroom as needed for the garage. Said, let's make a a full threec car garage that might be 32 36 feet deep. So, >> three and a half was kind of just the sweet spot that we hit to say that the
garage is now a lot more practical than it is currently. And the primary suite still feels you know luxurious but not overly >> but you know we don't see a lot of that. I mean usually it's how big can we make it so it's very tasty done. I was just
curious how you came up with three. And one more uh just curious question, you know, over the two windows, especially on that lower um rendering there, you have a full arch over the two, but on the back of the house, you
have a three window and you only do one window. Is there a reason? Because to me that's more something you saw in the 80s and that's something you saw when the house was built like over the full window. So can
you go back to the back of the house just for a minute? >> Yeah. Just curious because that to me is I love the the larger arc that but that's is there an architectural reason or is that something
>> generally we just follow you know when you do a kind of three park padian window like this it's kind of mostly just rules done for classical proportions you often see that there'll be four lights wide at the middle window and two on the side and arch window
lines up with the middle window, >> right? >> Rather than goes to the full extension. And then on the other side, we did the double wide just because it kind of >> matched with what was done on the pool house. Yeah. >> The double windows there. >> Um, in the primary bedroom, this
actually would have, you know, higher ceiling here to be able to get that window into the room. Whereas the bathroom is just an 8 foot ceiling. So, we wouldn't have a window necessarily above an arch window above the regular windows. So that was our my thinking there. >> I was just thinking, you know, it's a
mix and certainly with the age of the house, the fuller arch would have been something you would have seen more than than the one window. So I was just curious as to why the mix. So
>> yeah, I I didn't know that, but I I agree with you. No, I just didn't I didn't I was like, "Oh, I'm like really tired." So, you know, I um I just have just one comment. It's not like just It's kind of nitpicky because the house is just gorgeous. I mean, it's just die for and it's just
every little detail. It's just so beautiful. So, um you know, I was just looking at it and it's not it's not something that would be something that may me not want to prove this, but um just more of a suggestion. you know, the
the the panel doors are quite gorgeous because of the way that they were constructed. It's not like a prefab. Those are like handmade doors. I they're beautiful. And um and I understand, you know, going to this sort of application. And I also understand putting like lights in just for the visual. I totally
get that part. And so the thing I'm the only thing I was having a little bit of a hard time with was that proportionally when you look at the old design, you know, and obviously you have to get space. So, I totally understand that it it feels more proportional, you know, like it's like a little bit lighter on
top and heavier on the bottom. And so, now what's happening to me visually when I'm just looking at it as a from a design perspective, like from standing in your driveway, it feels topheavy like visually, you know, with the with the top and sort of like the door to now kind of scrunch down even though technically it's not. But, um, you know,
and it's because you made the windows higher and I totally understand that. So, I mean, the only thing I was going to ask is possibly if maybe there was some type of molding detail that you could give the illusion of like the garage sort of existing a little bit higher so it didn't feel like the
windows were crunching down on it. And I think that the panel doors don't do as much justice to the fine details. You know, maybe just exploring, you know, incorporating like what you would discussed possibly putting windows into the old doors or something like that. I
don't know. Um because it's just it's a beautiful design and that and that was obviously wearing a piggy because there's it's gorgeous, >> you know. >> Definitely look at we have this panel piece above the garage doors to be able to put the carriage lights on. We could
maybe take a more a bigger crown on top of that that's multiple piece. >> It it was just literally just a comment. It wasn't not be not perfect. >> Yeah. But I I agree with you. That's we actually an earlier version didn't have that panel and by adding that panel on
the top and then the gutter runs along it. I agree with the trying to you're trying to we're not raising the ceiling and the garage because that makes the whole structure go up. You're right. You want to make >> the garage look bigger and that's why
that treatment above >> above the doors. You know, I'm also wondering if we don't go with the windows for the garage doors if that'll give it make it feel heavier. I'm not really >> I I mean I I think you could do the windows still. I just I just think it's
it's that those that garage door to me belongs in my neighborhood. No, I'm just saying it's just like where it's sort of like a hodge podge of different styles like and it's not as well thought through and you know this is a very >> elegant neighborhood.
>> You like the existing garage doors. >> We'll have to keep cleaning them all the time. >> That's all just >> Yeah, I just got a couple really just comments. Uh beautiful house. I love the design. Everything looks great. Um, just
question on the back of the garage. Previously, the existing windows had shutters on them. Was there ever a thought of having shutters either on the side or the back again of the new windows or does that not really fit with the design as it because on the back of
the garage existing there are shutters? >> Yeah, we well we did look at a few options with them. We ended up with this design for kind of an increased window trim detail for individual windows here. It's got more of a pile rather than just a 4 in casing
and we ended up just landing on that thinking we did shutters for those that would kind of obscure that trim that not going shutters for that part of the house. >> Yeah. Okay. Uh, and the only other thing was, and this is more of an aesthetic
thing, I noticed that existing there are cleats on the roof of the garage. Were you planning on putting them back when you redo the >> Yes. The snow guards. >> Yeah, the snow guards. >> Yeah, those will be. >> Okay. No, great. That's otherwise. Great
job. I think it's awesome. >> On the shutters, just answer. I mean, I think we're the shutters on the other two sides look good here. We when we looked at it on the garage side, it seemed to clutter up the >> Yeah.
>> the wall quite a bit given everything else going on with the with the doors. The other two sides were, you know, we actually have trees that, you know, landscaping that covers a lot of the a lot of the sides. I'm not really,
you know, putting shutters on the other two sides would be fine one way or the other. I'm not sure it, you know, once you get all the land, you know, hopefully you can save a lot of the landscaping, but once you get in, it all gets fairly covered up anyway. Thanks.
>> Anyone else? >> I just have a comment. I walk by this house every day, too. Um, it's one of my favorite. Thank you for doing such a great job of preserving this. Um, from what I am understanding, they were just suggestions, but anything that you go
back and think about, you know, uh, some of the suggestions that maybe were made. Um, and certainly we can't wait to see the whole piece so we can vote on it. But I think gotten great comments back
and great job and thank you. Yeah, we'll have cut sheets of the windows for the next one and we look forward to getting Matthew's comments for the next next round. >> Perfect. So, when do you think you will
be back? January, February, do you know? >> We're planning for the January 8th. We should be able >> We look forward to seeing it. >> Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. Anyone in the audience who
you don't get to speak very okay um so let's move on guys just some um discussion items
we have any this point um I have none we're still going to work uh in familiar with education and outreach. I'm I'm begging for maybe I think you can help here with that. Um
to answer and uh then if you could just share at the closing last time you brought up a very good suggestion about an ordinance for the real something that we ran into with seven community they really weren't aware that they
purchased a house that we're in historic district. Um, so I did discuss that at uh the zoning subcommittee today and it looks like maybe we might they're going to look into it to see if there's any reason why
that can't be done. Um the uh cos on the DC also sits on that committee. So, we'll be watching that pretty closer, maybe pushing that a little bit because I do agree that in the translation of the buying of the house and you know, we
say buyer beware, but I think that's kind of cruel, too. Um, so at least they sign a document that they understand that they're in a district. >> Thank you guys so much. >> Thank you. Um, so we I wanted to tell you that great
suggestion and we're going to move forward um on that for the future. So, and we'll we'll keep everybody up to date on that. Um, I think that's it. Happy holidays to everyone.
>> Oh, yes. Can we quickly just go to executive session just real quick? Is that we can we have him on there too or >> um
>> well once the meeting is ended um I can check the settings and see if I can get the stream off and maintain him around. >> Okay. If not, um I have I can send a separate Zoom link. >> Okay.
>> Um that he can so he can participate in that. >> I mean, if it's too complicated, I can just call you tomorrow and we can go over what you guys spoke about. >> Okay. >> I just want to go. >> We just we understood. >> Yeah.
>> So, should we just info and then we'll I'll bring him up to date. >> Okay. Okay. So, we're gonna right now go in to executive session. So, give me the wording for that. We are now going to close the meeting to open
>> close the public portion of the meeting >> for the executive session and we will be back >> tomally close the meeting. >> Yeah. Um, so I just need to take a vote that we all agree we're going to go in
executive session. >> Okay. >> Yes. So, >> is there a motion in a second? >> Motion to go into executive session. Do we have a second? >> Allison Campfield, >> yes. >> Ro Jenkins,
>> yes. >> Gary Rosen, >> yes. >> Christine Best, >> yes. >> Shalova, >> yes. >> Justin, we'll see you later. >> All right. See you guys in January.