Good evening. I'd like to call this meeting to order. I'm going to read from the open public meeting statement. In accordance with section five of the open open meeting meetings act chapter 231 public laws
1975 be advised that notice of this meeting was made by posting on bulletin board town hall and serving the officially designated newspapers a notice stating that this meeting would take place at the board of education building at 434 Milbourne Avenue
New Jersey at 7:30 p.m. on September 4th, 2025. Sarah, Alison Campfield here. Zachary Davis here. Robert Frankle here. Brad Jenkins.
Gary Rosen here. Justin Sin. Elizabeth Wenda here. Christine Bess here. Taka. Now for the announcements. Uh, do any of the commissioners have any announcements
that they would like to make tonight? Hearing none, we will move to meeting minutes. The minutes of the June 5th meeting have been distributed to the commissioners. Are there any additions or corrections to those minutes? Do I appear a motion to approve?
Motion to approve. Second. All in favor say I. I all oppose. Minutes have been approved. Thank um just please note that we have Brad
Jenkins that just came in please. Um, memorializations. Uh, application number 6007 Nolwood Road, application number 610, 9 lane, and the local historic district landmark
nominations of the Paper Mill Playhouse, Taylor Park, and Milurn Town Hall. Do I hear a motion to approve the memorializations? A motion to approve. Second. Second. All in favor say I. I
opposed. Memorializations are. So this jumps us right into unfinished business. Um application number 58817
Pylon Avenue block number two 2111 lot number 17. It's a non-contributing property in the Chos Park District. This is a regulatory application to construct in addition to the side and rear of the existing house and other associated uh
exterior site improvements. Uh just a reminder, this is an application that came in front of us. Um I forget the date exactly. Martin, do you know? Probably over a year ago. Over a year ago. Um they've asked for an extension and they are here tonight with
a new application. So we welcome you. Um if we can have any applicants that are going to speak tonight and of course architects sworn in because of the time. Can we go ahead and swear in again? No, I meant just the
length. Oh yeah, for sure. Thank you. Um can you say your name for the record, please? It's Timothy C. Okay. And do you swear or affirm that the testimony you will be giving tonight will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes. Great. So, please proceed, but bear with me. Barton, I think this is your seat up here. There we go. Perfect. All right.
So, Tim, please proceed. Um, it's 17 Highland. We've been back and forth on it. um trying to get a building that looked compatible to the district and
actually everybody has been great with helping coming back and forth. We had a couple of Zoom meetings months ago and I think you remember and um Orton's been great with giving us feedback and coming back and forth and we've been we've been
working through it and we're at a point where I think we got something that's workable this evening. It's a woodframe house. It's combination of platform and cedar shapes. Cedar platform and super shape and brick
and pine trim and a regular sort of colonial revival built in 1941. Had maybe small alterations over time, but not really a lot of reparation work. And uh we're proposing to add an
addition to the building tonight. Um and we really attempted very hard to conceal that addition to the wheel of the lot. I guess um the newest information that you all should have is a cover letter that I
sent on June 7 or no I think I sent it around July 1st but it's dated June 17th. staff cover letter and uh was setting up us up for the August meeting which now begin the September meeting and this
that is the revised packet that I have and the same as the information that I'm going to show you tonight on these boards. So with that said I'm just going to go to the board and just show you first the existing drawing. You
know, it's a I'm down in the basement on my E1 and it's really a small basement area, a kind of car and a half garage and it's a relatively small house setbacks zoning
wise, but the note isn't really a concern. Although I did say where was it? I had to go to the board of adjustment for approval for something that I said that I didn't need approval for um last month and got caught by somebody,
the policeman on the on the board of adjustment, but it was it was for uh 417. No, no, 417 Wyoming, the big house that we worked on on the left side. And it was a building height issue with
actually the existing building, not the new, not ours. That's what it was. And I thought that they would let it go, but I couldn't let it go. So anyway, the basement, the first floor is really a small entry, uh, both large living room,
dining room, a bedroom with a full bath, uh, kind of galley kitchen going across the back, and a screen porch, which was half the size. And at some point in the north and it's really a relatively small house. I get up to the second
floor and it's really a threebedroom, two bath has a primary bath with primary bedroom and two other bedrooms in the hallway. There's no attic in this house. It's short. It's really only I think
about 27 28t tall. in front of a small house and this is a existing elevation of the building you know a relatively small house and the number some of the members who are
on the zoom with me if you can remember that's what the big concern was is to allow the building to still look relatively small on the streets and that so that's what we've done this even and then we come in the back it looks like a
has because the grain is dropped off. you see in the book store. That's it. Then I also have a series of old drawings in here from previous submissions which I'm not going to go through unless you want me to do a later
date because what we have submitted tonight in that submission of June 17 that letter in line of June 17 is our HPC70 series. What that means for
us in the office is that's our seventh series because we would have done them single digits and tens, right? I think that's and I'm not sure if that's seven or eight actually now that it's but it would be we did a single digit then we did a 10 series or
20 series 30 series and we kept going back and forth with these and trying to get to a point where we could get something that was workable to my client and also to the the board itself. So on the left on this drawing, this is
the 71 drawing. On the left on it is the existing survey and on the right side is the new survey. Um where we come down the same driveway, pull into the garage, which is really where the garage is right now. And then where I
cross-hatched in the back here is a sedition that we added on. It is a patio to the left of it, a deck to the right of it, and it's all kind of fitting within the zoning. So, I think I can comfortably say this one doesn't need a
variance either, but I'm I'm sure it does. So, I come to my my basement level plan. We we wanted to get more depth into the garage and um
and I I guess I can say important or the the board was concerned about us making the building look wider. So how we really got it is we went into the garage we built because the the existing garage is only about 18 ft deep and we wanted
you know doesn't really fit the car. So what we did is we went into the basement so that we picked up about three more feet as we came in there. And that sort of opened up our garage space without us having to pull to the left which is one
of the concerns that u was raised. Then we come we created a little mud room in the basement mechanical room. We come back to a bedroom, full bath, and then we have a a large playroom. And at this point, you
can actually walk outside because the grade is dropped. You're well, actually, the whole side, you drive into that side on the front. But come up to my first floor, my 73 drawing. We came in, we created a larger
dining room on the left, smaller living room. So we kept back living room, dining room in the front because for the public put the public spaces. We increased the foyer because it was very narrow. Added a closet. Came back, built
the butler's pantry, and then came into our new building with a kitchen, eating area, family room going out to a deck, and then got a bedroom on the first floor that comes back to a full deck. So, we were able to
really update the house and we really did it by doing this kind of a T-shape onto the back of it. When I come up to the second floor, we've clipped the building down because
the existing second floor is clipped down. That's part of what gives it that roller scale. But we've reconfigured things. So we got a a bed with an in suite bath, another bedroom with his in suite and another one in a laundry room.
And then we come out to the master bedroom suite. As we come into the back, all of it works on the facade on my 75 sheet. Really what we did is our only
real new work is adding it's actually adding over this existing one-story building on the left side that's really over it. We pulled it forward about 2 feet. That's why we shaved it but we had
it over it. And then otherwise in the front we really left all of the windows the way they were. One point we were trying to make the windows wider, but there's a lot of push back and too much glazing on the front leaving the wall to be a solid wall with punctures for
windows. We handled it by just going to peace. We need rest units. So we can satisfy the bedroom. Then on the right side, we come in with our new building. That's where that existing screen porch is. And we
add our building out the back. That little handle detail is our deck. All that really not even visible from the street at all. I come into the rear. We brought the foundation around and brick and
that's our family room and our primary bedroom above. Because there we've clipped like that ceiling height right there is 3'6 to we pushed everything down so that we could remain below the existing wage and keep
everything lower than existing. This is the left side the existing garage. We come back and this is that doorway from that playroom that comes out to the patio lower level. We got everything to
work heightwise with the building and this building on the face needs to be about it's about 27 ft taller but and that's it for the building. But
come on to the rendering. This is pretty good. This is my I got a thing that's called an exhibit. Can you have a copy of this in your or you're supposed to? Yeah.
So, what we did that's really our primary building. This was here as a one story where we added the second floor to it. We dropped down the second floor so that the primary
building would still be. Left it that way. And then we come along the back and after we finish the garage, we set in I think about four or five feet so that our building when it comes out the back we don't get that long wall. There's
actually a stronger demarcation there that looks if I this these bottom three photos you've seen before but it was probably six months ago or maybe even longer. I don't know. It's been a long time. But this is the streetscape going
up. This is the house on the corner of Highland and Hobart on the corner. That's really our building system. And this was about the clearest shot I could get of it's it's really pretty foliated. And then this is the building on on the
corner, right? Which is the this building right on the corner. And then after that is when we hit Nolan from turn make a left tool. This building is actually but that's our building really looked the same from the streetscape. Um in
terms of the site we came in we planted the site to kind of minimize it impact. We planted in front of the patio just to stop you from looking through and seeing the audio back there. And this planting
is occurring at the end of the driveway. So the driveway has a permanence. That line over there is the deck comes down comes to a future pool or we we set up for a pool and a pool fence. But um part
of what Barton said is when we if we get to that point, we'd love to come back and see you guys again related to the pool. But we understand that. So our roofing
now I kind of like slate line. Okay. So the existing roof is timber line but I I we on the drawings have actually said existing. So we're actually saying
timber line but I kind of like the slate line better. So I'm trying to sort of modify that sleep line. And then in terms of our other materials, you know, we have
all the natural materials, all normal materials. That's the best thing I think about the historic district that I can't get stuck using bad material. And it seems to us in the office that good material is what makes
the building. But you know, cedar shakes, right? These are just regular cedar shakes and clap cedar clapboard. Same thing. All of the all of the trim for us. We really use
this trim, this bodyguard trim. It's um it's pine that's been impregnated with a like a filler. so that it doesn't rot so easily. It's good. They've got a 20-year guarantee on it. This is actually a but
it really looks like what the but I think the the bodyguard is actually a better material. All the running trim would be fine. You know, regular just regular materials. The windows are
really simulated divided by it. Like they have the button on the inside, the button on the outside. This is gel wind, but we really have a really use of window, right? It's just a gel trying to get us to use their windows and keeps
bringing stuff in. And then the ceilings on the porches are cedar, you know, like this is Vboard thumb group Dboard, but that would be that would be normally what we would use. All of the I noticed
like the handrail on the the deck and stuff, we normally would use like EP because it's more durable than the cedar and I think it just wears better. That's what this is. It's nice because it's it
feels durable because it's so heavy. Um, and that's really everything. Uh, if I have I think that's everything. But it's it's
a interesting site because it's kind of narrow and tapers in as it goes and it's very restrictive in terms of zoning on the right side. But um our lot coverage is under our floor area
is under our building coverage is under everything is um I was very worried as to push the building that deeper to make it narrower that I was going to start to fail on this thing
called this rear yard unoccupied. But actually, it's not even close. We're supposed to be around 4,000 and we're at 7,000. So, you I remember being really concerned with it one day, but
it's not it's actually wasn't a problem at all. And um that's everything. Great. So, Barton, can you any comments or have
you I have one. Have you seen all of these materials and are they acceptable? And is that something under condition windows versus the window you're showing us versus two two quick questions, Tim. Um,
uh, the body guard, is that better or similar to like oral? problem. Not as good, but better than the AAC or how you Yeah, sometimes I think the AAC looks too sharp on the corners. See how sharp
the corners are on the Yeah. And it's u a little shiny. Yeah. Right. So, whenever we use it, we actually have the dy round the corners and paint it. Paint. And then I wonder why we're using the
exact because it doesn't really attach. The paint doesn't attach real well. Yeah. And it's expensive and they hate to cut it because it really has these little fibers everywhere. The Bora is like is another synthetic material. The bodyguard is a fine
that's been impregnated. It's actually wood. But both the boil and the body part look like you know they nearly the boil is a better interpretation. I didn't have a piece of body part
because I I gave to some builder that never the builders are terrible in my business. I look but nobody's a builder up there. So it's more fun when I got one up there. But uh but I can show you a piece
or if you can make the bodyguard maybe I'd like to come. Yeah, because it's actually we've had pretty good success with it and it doesn't seem to you know the problem is his pores hold
all that moisture and so they're doing what like pressure treated lumber is filling them up. But anything that accepts paints. Were you planning on doing this on the whole house or you just knew? No. If you redid it, you do the whole house and say
I think the roof's We're doing so much work. The color is never going to match. You know, my guys were trying to match it like they could leave the front, but it's it's never going to work. Okay. It would be better just regroof. And then you get this thing where when
there's a leak there, one roofer say, "Oh, that's no roof." It goes on forever. It's better to have one guy on his response. Um well, you know, I for one appreciate all all your effort. Um you know, I know Brad and others have been on many Zoom calls and this has gone on a long time,
but you know, I think this is uh a million times better than where we started. So, I appreciate you listening to everyone's everything. What was really great about in terms of giving us fun. Yeah. And I think you're still getting a
lot more house out of it, but it still looks basically the way it always has from the front. So, I think the commissioners agree that that's the kind of idea we were going for. Okay. So, uh, I'd like to move on to any
questions or comment from the commissioners and start where we'd like. Yeah, I'll just what Barton was saying is I appreciate everything I done to really get this to a place where it's I think before it was was this the house
that looked too much like a box? Was that Yeah. So, okay. So, like pushing that back wall and I think it looks a million times better. I think there was some issues with the heats and stuff on the front because like the the roof line was a little bit Yeah. But I know I
think it looks really good now and and it's not as obvious in the front of the house. It's really keep integrity of the original structure. So yeah, no questions for me. by um you
don't I actually I I had looked at the house I guess and it had gotten tabled and I walked around the house and I'm just trying to remember it. So sorry I'm late to the game. So like maybe many of my comments will probably be not relevant. So I'm just going to say you know it's
beautiful house and um it's definitely a huge improvement on you know what's existing. So it's wonderful and the design's really nice. Um but um the only question I had is that I can't get a sense of the neighbor below that's on
the corner by the rackets club. I think there's a house there, right? Yes. I can't get a sense if I was looking out of the sideyard from their house. How there's a lot of houses in short hills where people builders just like build these long railroad kind of style and I'm not saying that's what that is, but where it's very long and it is a long
addition. It's the whole length of the front of the house. So, I just wanted I the perspective there is obviously from the the you know the left corner but like I don't know how the neighbor next door would feel about that the visualness of it um and the expanse of
it. So that was just my only call out and I actually had a point of view about bar. I mean I just because I have it all over my house and I love it over ASAC and other materials. It's requires it's more expensive because um it goes through knife blades and it has to allow
the you have to um you know create like you know machine cut to do any kind of custom trim on it but it's really like superior to me visually compared to that's just my personal opinion. And um the other thing too I wanted to ask is the quality of the cedar. A lot of
houses now are putting up this sort of very thin cedar that doesn't have the longevity um you know of like sort of the old school cedar you know where somebody puts up fresh cedar board and then they go in and stain secondarily. So this is a prefab cedar and my I'm
just being a purist I guess is but I mean I wonder about like the longevity of that and it's to me it's very noticeable like you know versus like the quality of the age of that house. And so I would just call that out. I wanted to
ask also if um the the metal roof um over the bumpout where you have the window that goes out to the patio, is that just metal that's painted or is it copper on the side? You know, it's a copper seam roof. Okay, that was that was it.
So, that was my only two call outs. Let's see the um what did you take? What was the first one? What What was the first one? I wanted question. Yeah. Um I wanted to take them one at a time. Oh, the morale like Well, I mean, no, we
have a question. It was a question about the um the neighbor below their side at the house. Like I I mean I I really don't know, but I know what you're talking about when you get into a corner house, right? Um but I I guess if it helps, I could
say that that distance to the garage is the same as existing that distance which is Oh, you can see the other house right there. It's on the join. We are from the property line to that corner is
I think 32 32.9 ft and then we step in about 10 ft. So, our new building has kind of gotten away from there. But you can see the other house. The other house is really close to the property.
You know, they are 8 feet and I think it says I think it's like 88 or 86 back corner and then there's I don't know. Can anybody read that? I'm assuming Oh, deck. It says there's a deck there. But we are coming back to
about the where their decades or about as long as that is, but we I think we've created enough air. I just can't I mean my comment is is just that I can't I couldn't make a decision like if somebody was asking me
if that was okay is the house blow. I haven't moved in the house without seeing that visual. I have seen this problem. But if but you know that's up to you guys. I just call you the version where it almost looked horrific because I figured I'm bringing
everything. You know what I mean? Show them the map so they understand that you made lots of strides. Yeah. So that's why people I wasn't here. I mean it's the design's beautiful. It's not. It's just whether I can't imagine.
But I did see this on a house in Milber. I was in a house in no and it's almost like it's on the corner like that and the new house is almost right there. It was just there's like Yeah, there's a couple and it only happens on a corner situation.
That's the big block. Maybe that's more of a cheating. Maybe this 40 is big. 40 is bigger. I can see in the 30 series that we had a block
were closer there. There were probably well the corner of the building in that case almost 20 ft closer. We've actually So you guys were talking about it. Yeah, we weren't looking at it that way.
We were looking at it 60 series. Yeah. No, I guess you don't know. I said I stopped it. At one point. Yeah, there was actually shed dormers at
the third floor. So, it essentially was like a fourtory building. graciously is when we have stuff going on like this and guys get a little aggravating start throwing stuff away
and I'm trying to sit in this that's where we're in this because yeah we came up over but that was the third floor that was those bigger Any
more comments? Um, just confirm you don't you don't need zoning for this particular project. I hate to Well, yeah, the pool the pool fits for
my zone. The pool zone. Okay, we figured this. Got it. All right. Any other comments, questions? We've come a long way. Thank you, Tim. Um,
working with us and certainly I agree with Barton and um, what are your names? Brad, I couldn't think of a permit. Sorry, Brad. It's We haven't had a meeting for a couple months. It's all
right. She doesn't do it to me, please. Yeah, you got the wrong one. That's what confuses me. Um, so though we really appreciate you working with us and listening to us and um the only other question I have, Barton, the windows,
you weren't sure, Pella or the one that you have a sample of? No, I just had that sample, but we never use those gel. Okay. It's just hard to get. So you're saying L for these? Um so I think at this time
um well first of all do we have anyone in the audience would like comment? No having none um do I hear a motion to approve but with should we write any conditions Barton
with materials or your suggestions? I I defer the commissioners on materials. My my only thing was either we have a subcommittee or um or Tim would have to come back and he has more details on the fence, the pool and other
site features, parts site features. Okay. Um so with the condition that if the pool and fencing goes in, come back to the Anybody else on materials? You're
everybody's fine with materials. listed. Okay. So, do I a motion to approve this application with the condition we just noted? Second. Second. Great.
Allison Canfield, yes. Zachary Davis, yes. Robert, yes. Brad Jenkins, yes. Gary Rosen, yes. Elizabeth, yes. Beth, yes. Thank you. Congratulations.
Thanks. Yeah. Okay. So, this is new business, uh, which isn't really new business. So, let me kind of
walk us through this for those who maybe just joined us in the last year. Um, and some of us have been here for a while, but this has been I've been on the commission now for going on 18 years, and this has been a
topic of conversation ever since Zach came on board, which was how many years, right? Nine years ago. Um, so, and this kind of came in and out of conversation about that we really needed to protect our
historic uh bridges. So, what I'd like right now is I'm gonna ask Zach to talk to us about this, give you his credentials and why this is important. Um, and then maybe the followup question
for Zach. My comments at the end. So, we'll let Zach do that thing. Thanks, Alison. Hopefully everyone has a copy of the proposal, the survey of these 10 bridges in town and
they're all bridges that carry New Jersey Transit traffic over roads. So they're all actually owned and maintained by New Jersey Transit. These are not roads that cars pedal a lot. They're bridges that travel over roads.
Um they're all, you know, the the rail line itself is rather historic. It's actually a recognized historic district from you know mid 1800s and I guess I should back up and just explain why do I know this? Why does he know this? Okay, so I'm a secretary of interior qualified
archaeologist which means I have uh education experience to you know do this type of research and uh comment and and advice. So that's that's my role here is to help understand what we try to do here. Um, so the the bridges that we have here in town that have an amazing
that many of them are not actually noted as historic and there has been some work done recently. Essex County did some work on some box culverts in the town, replaced a few. There's a few remaining um box or jack bridges. Yeah, Jack. Um,
so the bridges we drive over them. We may not even realize that they're historic. But I think these train bridges are noticeable because we actually drive underneath them and we do interact with them on a pretty pretty daily basis. So it was kind of interesting that none of them are
actually noted as being historic. Although I think two or something are actually historic main street but not um but I think it's important for us to recognize that there are some that are not actually noted. There had
been a survey done maybe 10 15 years ago that had noted the presence of bridges up and down the Morrison Essex line and I think one of the ones that's most noticeable is the one on 124 coming uh into Short Hills area. It's this huge uh
brick arch that uh kind of amazing it's not really that recognized. So um that's the purpose of putting forth this u proposal to document these resources to determine if they meet eligibility criteria for inclusion in the national register and
you know parts put this together. So probably turn it over to him to ask any questions of but that's uh that's what we're proposing is to uh put forth this uh proposal and and fund it and get the work started. So before you start, Barb,
I I do have a question because I want to have to explain uh the reason for this is so when these bridges need repair, can you give us the next like what will happen if they are historic?
Well, right. I mean, if they're recognized as being historic or eligible for inclusion in the National Register, then, you know, there's a process needs to be followed to make sure that they're not just burned out and replaced by something that doesn't fit. I mean that has to be a level of care and respect
for what's actually there secretary's deterior standards for rehabilitation of those resources. Um you know it's it's possible if they're not recognized they anti-transit can just replace whatever they want but this way you know it it it
brings uh it brings the the notion of preservation to New Jersey Transit which they're a very good steward of the their historic resources. If you go to PO terminal, look how that looks and you know the last, you know, 10, 20 years. It's pretty amazing what they've done there. They recognize that they own a
very old u system and most everything is historic. So, they're very good about preserving the past. And I just think this is a way to make sure that if we have 10 bridges recognized in our town that they'll recognize that, too. And I work with New Jersey Transit pretty.
And I mentioned the part the names of the folks that we should work with them. I mean, they need to be involved. It's their it's their resource, right? It's their bridges. They have to be in our town. Um, so I think this will be a collaborative effort to work with the
township and and to transit together. So, great. Um, and so just everyone knows this is just kind of the first phase. It's a report that will recognize what's in our town first and foremost. We don't even know that all 10 could
actually be designated. Correct. Because maybe some of like a house has been touched too much or repaired at one time or another. But I would say on an average most of the bridges that we have listed are over a hundred years old. So infrastructure is going to
have to take place eventually, right? Sooner than later. And instead of being behind it trying to ask for, you know, please repair it, which doesn't always work, at least this way we're in front of it. And so we're asking, you know,
we're saying we're going to designate these. So now you working together, we'll work together on the best way to repair this. And I'll just say, think about the bridge by Tor's train station that gets hit like every other week by some
overhyped truck. uh you know at some point New Jersey Transit may want to do something about they may just want to raise the whole train bend and do that but um you know this would actually recognize that it's historic and that doing any work that they have to
work with us and work together to make sure it is uh done in a sympathetic manner and you said that a survey had been done um and this is a question I have and by whom about 10 12 it it was just an inventory of bridges along the route border I pass it on to
you guys, but it was very uh cursory. It wasn't doing this type of inventory, which is individual assessments of each bridge, and that was just looking at the tower length from Hoboken out to Glstone. So, that's a long distance, and I think
only one of the bridges in our town was even recognized on that. So, there's a lot more that could be done. I don't remember. Okay. So, Barton, you want to add anything to that? Um, you know, I appreciate uh Zach
spearheading this uh you know, over the years and bringing it to everyone's attention. And uh you know, we have a lot of bridges. There's at least 10 bridges that we've already identified in the township. And I think um you know as New Jersey Transit goes to do
maintenance and hopefully not replace but maybe they have to um you know getting in front of this will definitely create a more collaborative you know environment dealing with them in the future um in terms of you know what's historic and what isn't. So you know we
envision doing you know a lot of research. There'll be like report front matter historic research all the photos they're you know luckily the the railroads had a lot of historic photo through the years some of them are really crisp so hopefully we can find all the Milbourne ones and have those
and compare and contrast how it's changed over the years so we do all that photo research the front matter and then we do intensive level uh surveys which meets uh you know historic preservation office standards for New Jersey for all all 10 of these that we've uh previously
identified here and then we can take a look at you know how that report turns out um and then move forward with local nomination if everyone deems that we do that you know we'll have to you know I think at that point we could probably present findings like here's what we
found does the commission want to proceed uh with local designation or not you know New Jersey Transit may or may not um you know really care about that you know they're obviously state government But I think just showing, you know, what we think would be
contributing or non-contributing resources based on our findings. I I really think that'll help us have a more collaborative relationship with New Jersey advances moving forward. Yeah. I mean, I'll just say that, you know, mentioned about contributing. I mean, I mentioned before these these
bridges are part of the old Delaware Luana Western Railroad historic district. It's a recognized district that goes all the way from to to Gladstone. Not every bridge along the way was recognized as a contributing element. Why that's the case, I don't
know, but maybe, you know, there's probably hundreds of bridges that need to be looked at. So, we would like to show that these bridges do contribute to that district. So, they're not sitting out on their own. I mean, they weren't built on their own. They were built as part of the district. So, I think it would be just to reinforce that
district's uh information. So, thank you. So, a couple of things here. uh first and foremost foremost is I I made some copies with which there will be more uh details these were my kind of hurry up today kind of show you
for those who didn't know um and some of them I think you can recognize um and on the these documents some of them kind of al the age of these so they're pretty old I think they do represent the town um oh Zach the
question I was going to ask To your knowledge, didn't we have one that did actually get torn down um a few years ago? Which of the train bridge? Yeah. It was not train bridge. It was a
vehicular bridge. Oh, yeah. The one by the reservation, right? Really disappointing. Like there's a place that it was documented. So there was a whole report. That was And then the one on Main Street
was rebuilt, Main Street, the Mil was rebuilt where the you know the uh reservation. Yeah. Yeah. That was completely rebuilt. And I think the coolest part is if you look at this top picture on these, this is cracked.
So the bridge actually the in the train was so heavy that it wrecked I guess the bridge and then it was rebuilt in 1912 and still standing today. So you know I think these are things that we need to protect. So here's the question that uh
people ask you know we are a CLG grant and or a CLG government right correct me c a certified local government certified local government yes and I actually have a meeting with
them this week right but to go after grants and why we're going through the town is that first of all And correct me if I'm wrong, but um it takes several years to even get a maybe a portion of
what we're asking for. Um and right now grants are few and far between. Um as you know, state and federal free money isn't readily available. Um this is to
us um very important and has been brought up multiple times and especially because Zach has been on board with us and his position and when we lost the one bridge it really brought it to light. But as you know, we have all been
extremely busy shuffling to various projects, uh, trying to, you know, do residential areas as we all are very aware when we tried to do the Noddingham Mary District. Um, so what we looked at is
what are the things that we can do now, right, and bring forward to the TC and see if we can get these protected. um sooner than later. And again, as you know, and I can say it over and over
again, we are about 40 years behind on what should be designated, maybe more now. I think that was 40 years when I started. I've been here 18 years. So, we are always behind the eightball and we're always chasing to
protect some of these uh resources. So you know please ask any questions but what I'm asking for today is approval of this proposal to then go to the TC. So
it has many many processes there and then if they approve it the survey would be done and about approximately how long Barton does the survey take? three to four months. So yeah, three to
four months and then it would then you know go back to the TC well probably come back to us right and see how many of them are even right findings and whether we want to locally designate and I think at that time we would
certainly invite NJ Transit to also you know maybe talk on behalf if they want to um certainly we've done things with a state uh before and they just write a letter, you know, we're okay with this
or whatever. But we would let them know ahead of time and then we would vote. It would go back to the DC to see if we can designate that, you know, it it would be make it official. So, um that's really
what we're asking today. for some of like I said for some of those who joined us say in the last year uh which I know Robert's been with us forever you were in and out and we had mentioned this multiple times that this is really what
we needed to do but it was never put on the top of our priority list whether it be by uh maybe you know the TC or or other projects that we are working on. So, and now it's time. We're doing this for
Zach, for all of us, actually. I Today I had a lot I I went through trying to find, and Zach's right, they don't have street addresses. So, I was trying to see if I could find every one of them, and I
don't even I can't identify them by their names. So, it's going to be fun. and and very informative that we know where all these bridges are too because we don't even know where they are. I'm sure
a lot of people don't know where they are. So So are we just looking at railroad bridges or all the bridges? Because this one of them is not railroad bridge, right? The one with the Well, in the in the This is my little
one. Okay. Okay. So that's been rebuilt. Yeah. Yeah. That was that the one in town was rebuilt when all the water damage but luckily they rebuilt it back the way it was. You are no right. So
would you would you can I ask a question or do you want me to interrupt? So would you I mean this is a great idea. Um would you consider like adding on the township bridges i.e. like you know even just on um on Milbour
Avenue where that culvert you know the flood waters come through and technically that's bridge right even though you can't see it the one you were talking I didn't know sorry I just and um well I didn't I didn't even notice it was rebuilt but like I I'm just wondering
and even just um for example like the waterfall is technically a bridge you know in the reservation like the lower section I don't know where our property line as a township. I mean, David would probably answer this one like ends and begins
like if the reservation's considered county land, you know, but does do we own that bridge? Like, do we have a right to make that historic in the reservation for example, you know, some of those waterfall bridges because they're actually beautiful. I'm just storing that if you want to add those in too. I I didn't know.
Um, certainly that is a question and I think you anybody know or Barton maybe It's a county. The reservation. I know it's it's county property. It's within the like the
Milbourne goes through like you know like through like the reservation like most of the reservation like anything from South Orange Avenue almost over and it's technically in town but it's owned by the towns. I didn't know how that I mean Essex County did an inventory of
a lot of the bridges recently and that's where the Marian Avenue bridge came up. There's a couple other ones like there is actually one on Glenn that carries a stream underneath it and you know they just recently repaved Glenn. I'm sure
they didn't touch it because it's a bridge. It's pretty far down. But you know those those are usually replaced when there's issues with the road which I guess is why Mary was replaced but they they've documented quite a few of them. But um I don't necessarily know about the the dam because that's that's
a different feature, right? So, and I don't even know historically I think it was where the damn cross. I read that somewhere and I just Yeah, it could be in this book. It would be unfortunate if they made something ugly there at some point, you
know, and it didn't really look. So, I'm not sure how how we would go about that because you would say that there would be another how many of those bridges that we look at or is that a separate project or
maybe Barton can answer that question. Just an identification of every every bridge. Um I mean there's I'm sure there's ones that have never been identified. Um and then there's different kinds. There's dams and pedestrian bridges, vehicular
bridges, railroad bridges. Um, yeah. I mean, Zach's right. It's one of those things that normally comes up only when something else is happening and it's like, "Oh, is this old or not?" But, yeah, wait a minute. That's great you guys thought of this because that
controls the law. So, can I do we um I think it's a I think it's a great idea. I really like um the idea that we're going to actually try and understand these bridges historical significance. I'm just putting my lawyer hat on and wondering
like do we have the authority to designate New Jersey Transit property as historic and if we do is there any consequence to that to New Jersey Transit which I mean they would trump us for sure I bet. Um but but I'm just
wondering legally have we looked at whether we can even do this? Have you seen this part? Yeah, in other towns if that's happened. Yep. Lots of towns train stations are designated and they're owned by New Jersey Transit. Okay. But there's no real I mean it's
really just a collaborative effort with New Jersey Trans. They can't we can't stop them from doing anything simply because we've designated it. Yeah. Correct. But as a but as a state agency, they need to follow state regulations which talk about properties. Well, at the
state it's for properties listed in the state register. That's the qualification, which is not what we'd be doing. We'd be recommending not actually listed. But if they were to use a single federal dollar, then it becomes a different action. And then in that situation, then they have to look at things that are eligible or listed. And
so in that case, then they have to pay attention to these things are listed as as resources. Um, but it happens all the time. You can submit anything you want to the state historic preservation office. prepare it correctly and you know say this is my recommendation. Um
now only for listing in the national register or listing in the state register then you need the property owners agreement for that. So but not at this level when we're recommending as eligible but they still have to pay attention to it. So
and probably out of those 10 only maybe a few would actually make it to the state register anyway. Um, am I correct? Well, again, we're not listing for state register. We're just recommending. We're just recommending. So,
I mean, it's almost like did George Washington step on that bridge kind of, you know, for a state, right? For a state. So, um, but this, I think, would really make them stop and think, you know, is it historic? You know, we have the history
listed. Yeah. And like I said, New Jersey Transit knows that everything they have is essentially historic. I mean, all the train lines in New Jersey are from the 1800s except for like the river line and the Hutbury light. Those are all new lines. Everything else is from the right, you know, 19th century. And so they know that everything they have is
historic and they are, as I as I said before, they are good stewards of the historic resources. So they recognize what they have and they tend to work with it and they don't just knock things down by knocking things down. They they keep things in place. Yeah. No, that I think that makes
perfect sense. And to the extent it has any persuasive, you know, um, you know, quality with with New Jersey Transit in terms of what they do with these bridges, I think it's a worthwhile exercise. I'm just I was just trying to understand a legal perspective, can we
do it? And and if we do do it, you know, does it in fact impose any obligation on them? um even if you know it may be sufficient for us and I think it is that it it would you know they would think twice about doing something to these
bridges that would be interfere with their historic character. Um but I I just want to understand what are we really doing when we do this? I mean in the end the Jersey Transit wants to keep the trains running. That's the focus and if there's something historic along the way they'll figure
out what needs to happen to keep their trains moving. they have enough issues. So, yeah, give them the choice if it's not designated or they can kind of just fix it however they need to, right? I'd rather them. Yeah, totally agree. But like we
wouldn't need their permission to designate it. Um I think well I think we'd want them to participate or we give them a note and let them know that this is what we're doing. But I think they probably have this happen quite often. Am I correct?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I mentioned we should be working with them and will and just get make them aware they have the archives for us to work with too for a lot of stuff. So um it's it's worthwhile. But we can recommend these at local level and the state and
national register eligible and we'll stop there. Right. That's that's okay. Any other questions or I have just a quick question just in terms of what kind of push back if any
from the TC or from you know the people in the township for this we foresee like do we know what the surveys would cost because I'm just thinking back to Marywood that was a pretty bad fallout and I think you know there might be some
negative can I on you for two seconds. Young man, I'm sorry. I forgot your name. I can you introduce yourself? I just for a minute. I'm Shia. I'm a junior in high school.
He did a wonderful historic project for the society and he's offering some to do some mapping and stuff. So, he's been working with the site and I wanted to
introduce you because he was amazing and um we hope that maybe you can do some things for us in the future. Maybe introduce you to Barton. So, we'll connect you. How's that? I wanted to catch you before you left.
That's awesome. Okay. Thank you. Um wasn't he in the paper also? He was. Yeah. So, I I went to that and it was very nice. So Brad, I apologize. Before he left, I wanted No, I was just wondering if there is any concern with that. Anything that you can
do to be out in front of that, like if it goes to the TC and then they find out these surveys are going to cost I don't I don't know. Do you have you have a ballpark of what it would cost to? It was 30,000. Okay. It's not It's not nothing. And
people complain about less than that. And it's you know what I mean? It's do we think that could be an issue because they think the money would be used somewhere else within the township or Well, I can't speak to that, but certainly we have a DC members.
Well, yes. I mean, I I I do think they'll there'll be questions about what's the benefit, you know, of spending 30,000 um you know, to the town. Uh I I can't speak for everybody obviously and questions about um you know is there
funding available somewhere else you know to do it instead of the town spending money or spending I suspect those would be the the main question. Yeah. Could we could we engage New Jersey Transit a little bit earlier and maybe see if they have grants or something that we could
I know. Um and again it's getting I think harder and harder. Uh, I'll know more, but I'm already feeling the pinch. And they're demanding more and more. And so, again,
right now, we feel like that this is important. It's important to our town. Um, if anyone's following state and, you know, the government that infrastructure is going to be a huge piece in the next several years. I just really wanted to
get in front of this before we lose some of these bridges uh when we don't necessarily have to. Uh certainly we've gone through the town before. We waited how many years on a grant that we had to redo how many times Barton. Um
well the short hills survey I mean that took that we did get a grant for that and then it literally took four or five years. Four or five years. we had to rewrite it multiple times which probably ultimately uh they're becoming
more and more picky about how it's written um you know uh identifying things. So, it's becoming harder and harder to do and as you know because
we're behind and to apply for a grant um you know it just it doesn't necessar and you may or may not get it or you may get a portion of it. Um, and so what I'd
like to see is something a project that we we have several I mean many many projects um like for instance our sidewalks you've seen some of these sidewalks that you drove off the road you'd be you know
I mean so I mean I'd rather see us put a something together and ask for funding for something if we wait another five years or whatever and it's that's what I'd like to see it go toward because they're not
going to give us grants every single year. So, you know, we have to look at all of this as a whole. So, I bar go ahead add. No, yeah, I mean we could get this done in three or four months or we could wait three or four
years for the grant and may not get I'm doing three or four months and get the time. You know, I mean, one of the things too, like from a selling point to the GC, like I is that it's part of the infrastructure of the town and if you want to have control over the taste
level, which is what I mean, they're beautiful bridges and if you allow New Jersey Transit to just throw up whatever they want to throw up, it again, you know, denigrates the aesthetics of the town. each time we take a chip at it. I I I think that you're basically spending
30 to $40,000 to be to basically put together a strategic plan for something that is eminent because those bridges are I mean just even with the the you know like you talked about the trucks getting stuck. I mean I think it's actually a critical issue like and I I
mean I I don't think it's a lot of money based on some of the stuff people throw out you know around. So, and to answer Brad's, I mean, you jumped in on the uh HBC right at the crucial moment. Yes. Um,
for districts like that, we're really uh, as you know, the comments were that we were infringing on personal rights and it's, you know, that type of thing and and forming a district. And now that's why the new ordinance states that you have to have I believe it's 70 some
odd percent of the district that right is it 70 something I forget what the updated 78% or something I think it was the opposite way though if they got break orders or something with people that sign a petition or
something like that that they could designate um that's getting harder and harder to do even though that we can prove that these districts are very historic. Um
people there's uh myths about that we're really hard that we're another process we cost more money you know we're costing people more money etc etc I think the a lot of us live in historic
house so I mean um you know these are things that are myths and new materials are acceptable now uh certainly we look at uh you know, cedar right now is off the charts. Uh
you know, slate has always kind of been up there. So, we're now we have other materials that we're accepting, but we are asking on very um you know, historic properties, you know, we are asking them
to put in real slate and that type of thing, but we can't we're not forcing people to do it, but we encourage it, right? So, um, this is what we're up against. So, what we did is then we looked at that list of things like paper
mill playhouse, town hall, things that we knew the town uh owned and said we need to designate, we need to protect them. And thanks to all of you, you you agreed to that, too. So there's again
New Jersey Transit who we believe will support you know us locally designating these and it's something that we can do now versus you know going after properties. Good good news is people are calling me and asking me how to self
designate. So we we are kind of moving in the right direction. Um I wouldn't say it's hundreds of calls. Uh but we are I am getting calls. I have a question about Barton. Isn't there don't they have a responsibility even
though we have the local uh districts up abuing the railroad like especially like the one in old short hills right because they have to come to like things like putting up a power even within a certain radius distance from the historic district. Isn't there
mean like a section 106 that they still they would still need to come to us like especially like the one going through old Short Hills, right? Like you know like the near Shorill Station, right? Because we have the historic district right up against there. So to change that bridge
technically New Jersey Transit should have to come to us. Well, section 106, right? We've received letters before, but it's they just have to notice us. Yeah. I feel like it's like after the fact.
Okay. Yeah, but I mean we do h we I mean we technically already have jurisdiction. Well, not really somewhat, but per section 106, they have to do a NEPA. I mean, these would have to go through a full NEPA if they were going to replace these bridges. So, I think
I think one of the things was trying to understand what is historic and like just spell it out so that we can get ahead of it instead of the reactive, oh, we decided we're going to do this and we're just going to notice you. Yeah. I know. I gota preface this saying like I would think that you know I mean
they're probably not going to come and replace a bridge in the middle of town without noticing you know I'm just saying you know like like technically they would not be allowed to do it. Well I think it has happened. Well, and
the bridge on Glenn Avenue. I mean, granted, it was a county moment, but it's it's a prime example of somebody just coming in and doing whatever control. That's what you're trying to do is get control over it. I think Zach's trying to be proactive. Yeah. Well, they they they document it. I
mean, again, I was like, Bart, where's that for? You got it. So you know they did the right process and that's that's the mitigation which is that's what's allowed which is taking high res resolution photographs writing a report and now you have record of it and now
the bridge is replaced and it's more secure it's better it's not going to collapse but but understand it's a record that will go down in history but they can change it and do what they want to so without locally designating it we
have we have more of a foot in the door. No. Yeah. I just think that we have a little especially that other one wasn't actually adjacent than district. So I mean the difference is like some of these actually are Yeah. Jason and I think we'll know more
once we get the report which ones really Yeah. And we're happy to share it with them. Um Zach gave me the context. Yeah. And I think it's good just to work with them while you're doing it so that they're aware. Yeah. So
any other questions? We're here to answer them all. So again, you know, we're not holding you at gunpoint, but if we feel that this is is important, then you know, let's vote to move this proposal. Yeah.
Yeah. Um, so I'd like to make a motion to push this proposal through um to the TC for designating or surveying the the 10 bridges.
Do I have a second? Second. Great. Alison Canfield? Yes. Zachary Davis? Yes. Robert Crinkle. Yes. Brad Jenkins, yes. Gary Rosen, yes. Elizabeth Langa,
yeah. Christine Best, yes. Believe. Perfect. That's good news. So, thank you guys. Um, and again, this was just my little quick today run.
So, uh, we'll get a full report hopefully once the TC if they agree to move us forward. So, we'll go from there. Zach, what I would like though is maybe uh if you would
volunteer to speak at the TC. I'm not sure. Uh Dave, do you know I'll find out when it's going to be on, but yeah, I'll put I'm not there for the very next meeting in September. So better in October. So Dave can
support as liaison you two. So that'd be great. Thank you. Um so we only have one I just have a discussion item real quick. Um we are finally we again we're getting to all these projects. The design guidelines were you go
you know more about what we started we started and stopped trying to update the design guidelines which were last done in the 70s. So, that's the little thing we have online. And uh I spurts and stops. We're finally
getting there. And I'd love to have a couple commissioner volunteers to serve on a little subcommittee to help us get over the finish line. And uh I'm happy to share the revised draft where we're at with it. you know, we've made a lot of progress, but where where we're at
now, and I need some help is um kind of some some formatting and graphic design, but also like good and bad examples because you always end up stepping on people's toes when you show like someone's house and it's like, "Oh, this is good. This is bad. Do this. Don't do
this." And uh I' I'd love to have some a couple commissioners who feel uh that they could, you know, oh yeah, you should use that that example in in Short Hills or that example in Wyoming. Um and I guess these would be more residential design guidelines is what we discussed.
Although we could have a section now that we have Short Hills Village, we could add a few pages kind of storefront design as well since we now do the status of a locally designated district. So just I just need a little help and we can try to you know in this time of the year try to get that across the finish
line. So I'm happy to help. I mean I just you'll tell me if I do enough. I mean just I'm a good just follower but I have a strong opinion of course to know about Well, that's good. But can I ask a question? Is the design guidelines historic only or is it apply
to the entire township or Yeah. I just didn't know. I was just curious. Yeah, we can make it Milburn Township historic design guidelines, but obviously it's going to end up being more specifically used by us when we site things, review things, when we
write resolutions, why we didn't approve something instead of just we say so. Um, but in general, yes, I I would hope that even the planning and zoning board, hey, we have historic design guidelines. Why don't you go take a look at Yeah. And if like you said, if you need
help, I'm Yeah, we definitely need help. It's like it's like it's like there but it needs to it just needs to get fleshed out, you know. Um I think great thank you for volunteering. I think we do need creative kind of minds and and maybe
expertise in something and you're very creative. I don't know if I can do line drawings quickly, but I mean I could definitely find images for you. We'll take photos. It doesn't look like maybe we'll go to summit. Take that photo. I guess we've run into that because they
show something and I'm like it's not a bad example that's a good you know. So yeah, that's fine too. What about just content and could read over and I mean obviously we can give it to the whole commission before it gets
finalized but I just need a little subcommittee of people who' be you know really into just helping guide it a little bit. Um it's not well I don't know maybe a couple 100 pages but 100 pages I think so
the majority of it is done so I mean it's just really looking and saying what what would you find more interesting like how could we change something or um make it more valuable I guess right
and user friendly like you're you're a resident you know how would you get more value out of this if you didn't know what it was. Yeah. So, Gary, I couldn't recruit you as a legal just to there's a there's a legal aspect.
No, I mean just make sure we dotted all the eyes crossed all the kind of I mean I'm happy to read it. Okay. I think we all are a little crazy right now. So, I understand that. Um certainly, Zach, would you read over it
when it's done? Okay. So, and you know me, I'm I'll be there for you. You tell me where to go, when to be there. So, just maybe having a few of us read over unless somebody
else wants to volunteer, but feel free to reach out. I know. Otherwise, um yeah, I mean, there's no like time frame we have to get it done by. So, I think it's just once everyone feels comfortable. Yeah, let's get this out there and put it on the website and everything.
I mean, even if it's like it's I think it's really Thank you for doing that. And what's really important about this too and working with the planner a grand pedo is once this is finished and it's up online and then right now we are working on design guidelines for
commercial you know um right correct and so those can be combined might take things that we have in then certain areas now that we have u like conditional use things come up etc.
Maybe those can maybe somehow be incorporated. I don't know how that takes magic. But um you know the sooner we get this done I think it would be helpful to the whole town and then how we can collaborate with the planner on a
quick question. When you say commercial, are you talking about existing structures or is it also anything like new built? You like it to at least be an aesthetic that fits in the town? probably more new built because the old ones grandfather
currently on unfortunately. But what what can happen though is with the new zoning regulations if they touch the majority of the building or something of that nature then then they have to follow new guidelines. I'm not sure what
that percent is but um I think it's something that was much needed in our town. So looking at all of these pieces is really important and we've been setting on this one just because we've again been so crazy with other things. So
and I asked that because I don't know how often everybody here drives through Chadam but downtown there's a building that was completely knocked down, rebuilt and it looks like it just fits right in there. Looks old, right? Yeah. What's the name of the building? I don't know but it's right in the
middle of town. right in the middle. Yeah, it's apartments and underneath it's businesses and it's not open just yet, but it's it's pretty much there and it looks like it's been there for 100 years. I I love stuff like that instead of just pick up a box. Yeah.
Um I do believe though Chadam is the downtown is designated historic. Yes. So unfortunately I noticed the same thing and I'm thinking wow why can't we we would have to designate the downtown
which you know we attempted at that same time not not even [Music] um and it didn't fly. So can always recycle it because we have that the whole downtown's been surveyed
and written up and we have it all. That has to be something driven by, you know, if you guys want to drive it, I'm I'm here. Um, I'm down after we do the thing. I mean, because, you know, because I think that the problem is, I mean, is that as much
as I support like explore in a lot of ways, they've become the design de facto of our township. And um, and it's not there's not a qualification level there. And it's it's very haphazard and it's affecting the overall aesthetic of the
town, you know, just and historic nature and some of the buildings that have been lost already, you know, historic buildings that have been replaced by severe modernist architecture. Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. Um, so maybe that's something that we can look into.
Maybe we can that wouldn't cost anything because we already have it. It's it's already done. we we just review it again, vote on it to to move it forward and uh then we can Now, I know I came in like right when that was at the tail end of being voted
down and everything, but do we think that was more of it being connected with the Marywood Nottingham vote or is it was there a completely separate push back from um I think we all have our opinions where maybe the push back came. Um
certainly maybe going after which we were directed at the time um to go after them all. Uh maybe it's giving the opportunity to um educate maybe by section, educate people what
that means, you know, what historic really is all about. And that'd be something that we have to do too is put ourselves out there, you know, set up meetings, maybe have a packed house of objectors, etc. So remember what you're
asking. This is all, you know, most of the stuff is privately owned and yeah, we're going to have people that don't understand historic preservation. Um, so those will have a lot of questions. So if we're prepared to do
that, I'm I'm always willing to take that on. I think part of that, too. Okay. So maybe we'll mark that as a project for the new year. maybe relook at that again,
send out the uh the report, maybe some people comments, and then we'll vote to move it forward and see what happens with it. Right. So, great. I think that was it. Barton, you have Christine.
Zach's going to review it. Um you'll look over it when you have time. Um, and I can look at it too. Just send it all and maybe we can all just make comments and and certainly Dave, you're welcome to make any comments on these
design guidelines that you feel might you know benefit us and you know you know more about the overall town. You're learning. Okay. All right. So I've kept you guys long
enough. So I question. I just I know just I'm if I'm inappropriate, just let me know because I I know it's very formal. I um you there's a lot I have we talked about designating the curbing historic in the
town and the the little like um running water wells because what's happening is they're literally being destroyed right now, particularly on Camel Road. And um and I I brought that up because it's something that massively irks me, but um
you know I I just because there's sort of a sense of urgency because now they're just like just asphalting into the you know things and and it's I mean I don't know. I just throwing that out like just I mean can't the TC just designate them like to be done a certain
way? They're historic and not really. Barton, I know we had a conversation with the town about the gutters and I can tell you Yeah, I can tell you what they told me, but I'll Barton, what was the overall?
Well, in the historic districts, they're supposed to preserve them, but in other parts of town, we can add them into the design guidelines. It's like this is what you should do. Replace with kind or in the Fairfic neighborhood they they
redid all of the um the we just have curb stone but it's nice curbstone you know it's got nice Belgian block and I find it interesting how like old Shore Hills Road people just throw rocks to designate the end of their property because there's no curbstone and it's
there's no consistency like what neighborhoods get curbstone. I mean, it's it's interesting and you know, some I don't know because I I see that as sort of devaluing the visualness of the human beauty and and um I didn't know just because you were talking about all the stuff. Yeah.
And um they seem to be tearing it out. Um that was or Yes. Thank you. Exactly. That's what I meant to say. I thought they were like my neighborhood in my street. Half my street had regular curves. The other one had the swells. Um, and they did the when they repainted
it recently, they the other side stayed swails. They reset all the stones. My side had curves, put it back. Um, I think that's what they're doing is if it's if it's a swale, it stays a swale. Yeah. I mean, I guess unless everyone on that
street, you know, started saying we hate the swells. Well, and understand, too, that some of the swells that they covered many, many, many years ago. So that's that's the case of I've seen that too. People on their own
just Yeah. So they dig it out and they lift it and they put it back uh because that's the way they want it. Now is that the way to do it? No. I think maybe we should probably think about putting something in writing again requesting
that you know uh that things put back with kind. Um because I think sometimes they rely on the people who live there to to build them back. What also uh we did notice
was that uh which is a real problem with drainage is the fact that no one's putting the pipe underneath where they're they come in in the driveway. So we probably need to bring that to the attention somehow too. uh because it's
really causing then the overflow and then a lot of the rocks that aren't put in with concrete or washing down the street or whatever. So Barton, you and I, we'll try to put something together and and try to work on that. One other thing it is doing is when they're paving
it over, it's not um pvious or yeah, it's not pvious anymore and it's killing the trees right on the line of the roads and we've all seen that I mean these hundred year old trees where they're and the interesting thing too is I remember Alex had mentioned this to me
is that um like for example when they were doing all the water work and also um the SG was going through because they're doing the high um power gas lines. I mean, there's a portion I mean, I'm sure Dave knows more than I would know, but um there's a portion that PSNG
is responsible for paying for and I know Alex negotiated, you know, a fair amount of money like so the timing, you know, this probably I don't know. So maybe we should mention but we should also get environmental involved because
the trees are also suffering uh quite a bit in those situations that they paved over the stone stone. So um boy we've got a lot to talk about but
we'll save it for meetings in the future. How's that? But please this is what this is about brainstorming. If you'd like to bring something to our attention, something that you'd like to put forward, we promise we won't make
you wait as long as we may. Exactly. So, I'm going to conclude this meeting this evening. Oh, first of all, I always forget to do this, but is there anyone? I'm opening the floor. Is there anyone in the audience that has
any comments about Okay, having none, I'd like to adjourn this meeting. Thank you guys. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? You hit the go. Got it. Thank you. And if you don't say yes, I'm going to hit you.
Extra copy of the um the little bridges. No, I don't want to take your fine. I'm going to I'm like I'm like a little bit of a paper. Thanks, guys. Send me whatever you sent.
It was just like copies from