do it again. I'd like to call to order the Milbourne Historic Preservation Commission meeting of January 8th, 2026 at uh starting at approximately 7:30 for our reorganization and regular meeting.
Um I will read the Open Public Meetings Act. Now, in accordance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, Public Law 1975, be advised that notice of this meeting was made by posting on the bulletin board at town hall and serving the officially
designated newspapers a notice stating that this meeting would take place at the Melbourne Township Board of Education Building at 7:30 p.m. on January 8th, 2026. We'll begin tonight's meeting with the oaths of office for members being appointed or reappointed. I would ask that Christine Vest being
appointed as alternate number one and Ray Kalpano being appointed as alternate number two stand and raise your right hand and repeat after me. [clears throat] >> I state your name. >> I Christine Best >> I R
>> swear or affirm whichever is your preference. Swear >> affirm that I will faithfully >> that I that I will faithfully impartially and justly >> That I will faithfully and partially and justly >> You guys can talk at the same time. [laughter] >> Sorry instructions.
So that I will faithfully and partially and justly >> that I will faithfully and partially and justly >> perform all the duties of the office of commissioner >> perform all the duties of the office of commissioner >> um of the Milbour Historic Preservation Commission of the Milbour
>> Historic Preservation Commission >> as alternate number and then state your number as alternate number one >> as alternate number two >> to the best of my ability. the best of my ability >> and that I will support the Constitution of the United States. >> I will support the Constitution of the
United States >> and the Constitution of the State of New Jersey. >> and the Constitution of the State of New Jersey. >> And I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. >> I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same >> and to the governments established in the United States and in this state. >> And to the government established in the
United States and >> under the authority of the people >> under the authority of the people. And so Christine Best is now appointed as alternate number one and Ray Kalcano as alternate number two. Sarah, if you could do the roll call.
>> Allison Canfield. >> Zachary Davis >> here. >> Robert Frankle >> here. >> Brad Jenkins. >> Gary Rosen >> here. >> Justin Salem. >> Elizabeth Winga >> here. >> Christine Beth
>> here. Ray Pal here. >> All right. And now I will address nominations. May I have a nomination for chair? >> Nominate Alison Campfield. >> I second that. >> All right. Um, any other nominations?
Hearing none. Um, since there are no further nominations, I will close nomination for chair. And um, since there are no additional nominations, we can take a voice vote. And so all in favor appointing Allison Campfield as chair, please say I.
>> I. >> I. Anyone opposed? Hearing none. Motion passes. Allison Campfield is appointed as chair. >> Okay. And may I have a nomination for vice chair? [laughter] >> Second.
>> Okay. And uh any other nominations? Hearing none. Um, as there are no additional [clears throat] nominations, we can take the vote for appointing um, excuse me, mind is blinking. Um, for
appointing Zachary Davis as vice chair by voice. All in favor, please say I. >> All any opposed? Hearing none, Zach Davis is appointed as vice chair. Um and with that I will turn
the meeting over to you. >> Great. Thank you. Uh next order of business is to appoint the SR preservation commission attorney and that would be cop here. Um what we need to do besides say that we want to appoint you as our attorney.
>> Motion to appoint and then >> motion to to appoint Captain Cop as the attorney for the historic information commission. Do I have a second on that? >> Second. Right. And we'll take a voice vote to approve or do we have to do a roll? >> We can do it both. Fine.
>> Okay. So, all those in favor, please say I. >> I. Any opposed? Oh, congratulations. >> Thank you. Uh for your continued confidence, it is a privilege to serve the commission. >> Very much for your help. >> Right. So, that is done. Uh next, we need to appoint the secretary for the
historic preservation commission. And we're >> [clears throat] >> um I'm going to nominate Sarah Oxtovi as our secretary. Do I have a second on that? >> Second. >> Great. All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed?
>> So Sarah, congratulations. You're our secretary again. I know that commission member Justin Seal is here for a few more days. So that's at 7:30. Five. Great.
And next would be the acknowledgement of the found committee leaison. Uh David Cosgro. Is that an or just acknowledgement? >> Um yeah, I think it's an acknowledgement that you've been you're appointed. Yeah.
>> Thank you for being here again, David. >> Thank you. So that is the uh housekeeping the beginning meeting. Great. Um this appointment. Um now we'd like to move on to the
scheduling of our meeting dates for the year of 2026. Um you should have in front of you those dates uh here. Uh obviously we're meeting today January 8th reorganization meeting. Um and then for the rest of the year, normally we
would meet on the first Thursday of every month. Uh there's a conflict in February. Um and so we're proposing to move our meeting through the second Thursday, February 12th. And I believe there's also a conflict in May, which is
why we're doing May 21st. Um these have been distributed to the commission. I don't know if everyone got to see them before, but uh hopefully we can pass the approval on this. So, do I have a motion to approve these dates or is there any
discussion of the dates? >> Um I think April 2nd is break school break. >> Can we move that to the following? >> Uh pending the room available. Yes.
Okay. >> Can we tatively say April 9th? >> Yeah. Yeah, that would make sense because I know um for reasons. >> Okay. >> And on the 21st of May, I mean, I'll
make it work. I just was saying some people I mean it's right the day before people get out for the weekend. I I I'll make it up, but I just >> people um Okay. All right. With with that one change,
April 9th changes. [clears throat] >> All right. So, I'll propose then that the dates as set forth with the one change April 2nd to April 9th for those meeting dates. >> I do a roll here.
>> Do a roll. >> [laughter and clears throat] >> Zachary Davis. >> Uh, yes. >> Robert Frankle, >> yes. >> Gary Rosen, >> yes. >> Justin Salen, >> yes. >> Elizabeth Wena, >> yes.
>> Christine Bess, >> yes. >> And Ray Kano, >> yes. Great. All right. So, those dates are approved for the uh coming year. And the next order of business is to memorialize um application from our last
meeting December 4th. That's application number 612. Address is 107 Glenn Avenue. Um memorialization for um >> resolution. >> Yeah, I'm just sorry. Um
um so approving this memorialization, we take a a vote on that or >> Yeah. Uh approve. Um Sarah, can you get a >> Do we have a motion? >> All right. Motion to approve the
resolution. >> Second. >> I was here. So >> yeah, make a motion or vote on it. >> I was not present. So, I have Zach is being absent, Rob is being absent, Elizabeth is being absent,
and yeah, >> Jerry, I'll move. >> I'll second it. >> All right. Thank you. >> All right. Then, uh, can we get a vote of those that were present to approve the resolution? >> Yes. >> Yes.
>> Are we? >> Yes. >> Justin Sen. >> Yes. I said yes. Yes. That's the question. Okay, that's approved then with those votes.
>> Three votes. >> Yeah, I mean they were it's unanimous for those that were here. So >> yeah. >> Excellent. >> Thank you foring that. Now we are going to there are no consent agenda.
just >> All right. So then we will move on to our old business which will start with application number 627. This is for 31 Northern Drive, block number 21103, lot 6, a contributing property to the North
Hills Park Historic District. Kevin as he has a >> he's a resident in the neighborhood. >> Question. >> Okay. Um >> Oh, yeah. I I have an old application. Were there any updates? I mean, I know we got a new packet, but this they had
previously submitted. Were there any updates on the new >> the updates were sent out in the packet and also the link? >> No, no. I'm saying they they haven't didn't they submit a while back and pulled the application. So, they there were no changes made on the previous >> They submitted the conceptual and then
the revise. Okay. Thank you. There you go. All >> [clears throat] >> right, while you guys finish setting up for the record, um I have reviewed the notices and publication and everything is in order. So the um the applicant the
board of commission has jurisdiction to hear this application this is open. Um so if you could identify yourself spelling your last name please. Whoever >> Kevin Willins W I lens property owner along with my wife Tina.
>> Okay. >> I got over there a week ago. Hear me cough. I'm not but you wouldn't want her >> and you >> uh architect for the project Nicholas Juliano partner with Rosen company
architecture and design. >> Okay. Um and are you licensed in the state of New Jersey? >> Yes. >> With your license active and in good standing? >> Yes. >> Give the commission the benefit of your educational background, please. Uh yeah, I have a bachelor of architecture in uh
for New Jerseys technology and I'm a commissioner on Montlair Historic Preservation Commission as well. >> Okay. Um so do you want to accept him as >> Sure. >> Okay. Um All right. So um if you both swear or affirm that the testimony
you're going to provide this evening will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Thank you. >> I'm just going to pass around some for tonight. um minor updates that we developed this week.
>> So, were these previously submitted? >> Not submitted, but I did discuss them and you just said to discuss it during the hearing, but as well. >> So, we'll mark this as A1. >> Yeah, there's one and two
together. Uh well, since they're stapled together, we'll do a just A1 two pages. >> Okay. >> And you'll be able to um email a digital copy of >> the um of these revised plans. >> Sorry.
>> You'll be able to email a copy of course. >> Okay. Thank you. So yeah, just a general background for is everybody here for the December one or is there anybody that needs an update or just overview? >> I would just go through it. Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. So we are currently there's
an existing very small threecar and actually a twocar garage in the rear of the property that we're putting a three and a half foot edition on towards the rear just to get it to truly fit three cars in it. uh the width stays the same and we're putting all new windows and
new overhead garage doors at that level and replacing the powder window as well on the same side as the garage windows. And then on the second floor, we are instructing a new addition above the garage from about this point of the
house back um for a renovated primary suite bathroom, walk-in closet and bedroom windows, uh new structure above and on the exterior elevations. On the front facade, we have no visible
work proposed. And on the side here, we have the three car garage um doors down here, windows above for the primary suite, windows at the rear elevation,
garage windows at this level, and bigger window for the primary suite here. keeping the E line of the primary suite kind of low here so that this piece still kind of looks support into the main house and then there's side dormers and this these back you know to have the
regular ceiling height throughout the primary suite. So really kind of trying to keep this shape that we have here and just expand with another door on this side and just update some of the windows to side here on the side
windows here, outer room, bathroom window for the primary suite, bedroom windows, and then just on the original brick part of the house, there's an existing uh French door that goes out onto the balcony over the sun room. We're just replacing it in time. the
same size, same location, no change to the brick work and the door itself will be a wood and glass provided life panel door um same specified a different since the last conceptual review
added some additional product information details using for the windows and garage door. Um, we'll be using more wood for the windows. Um, there'll be true wood windows. Um, muttons on both sides of
the glass, interior and exterior with spacer bars. Um, historic profiles on both sides for both of the mountains. Um, true double hungs. And then we have casement windows as well, also from Millerwood. And then a custom elliptical
window on the rear elevation. Um, that will all be real wood and field painted. whatever color we determined for the rest of the house. And for the French door out onto the balcony, we're specifying upstate door,
um, real wood door, um, real divided light or simulated divided light with real muffins on both sides of the glass, low panel that matches what the existing condition is. are just some of the details here to just show the molding profiles, how the raised paneling works
at the piece down to ground and the actual light layout and then marched elevation here or this is from upstate directly. So for the garage door, the garage door is mainly where our big
update is from the conceptual review. some of the feedback that we have gotten last month. Um I think the board wanted to see just a little bit denser paneling on the door to make it look a little bit older and less like a more modern door. So we specify a different panel layout
from the company Flope. It'll be a real wood door with a factory paint finish that'll match the window and trim colors for the house. Um, this detail here is just a blow up of how it's constructed with actual raised panels and styles and
rails. And on the elevation, if we go back to that, just look at the side view. [clears throat] So, we took the Lord's advice to heart on this and really went for something that looks a lot more like the original
doors that were built when the house was constructed. Um they do have this kind of arch detail that we have and Clo is able to offer that um on the new door as well. So the new doors pretty much kind of look exactly like the ones that are there. They're just the overall doors
wider to be able to get a car in more easily and we have them space apart a little bit further um between each door. And we also raise the inabure height above the door. of the comments um to kind of just reduce some of the amount of siding
between the top of the garage door and the bottom of the window sill on the second floor. So other than that, the windows on the second floor, all the trim details stayed the same and the rear window stayed the same and the curved door details on windows on both
sides stayed. So big update was the garage door design. Um, and in your exhibits tonight, you'll see that on the floor plan file of the exhibits, um, we're proposing to just replace or really repair the below grade basement
windows like on the front side. They're not visible. There's top of the windows people in the window well. There's really dense landscaping on the front of the house here. So, really can't see much at all from the street. It's really kind of just repair work. Um Barton
advised that we just talk about it tonight and have it marked in the approval. Um and the other uh piece in that same on the rear wall the garage edition um the homeowners are planning to upgrade their existing electrical
service to a higher bridge and in their introductory box with JCPNL. They're probably going to need a new disconnect box somewhere on this back wall. Um we're planning to just put it low to the ground and then have ever great screening similar to what's there now on the back
wall. Um you don't really see much of the first floor there. So right now they have landscaping in front of the garage. Currently, when we do the addition, we'll do something similar with this fence up, you know, halfway up the height of the window, so
they don't really ever see the disconnect box. Um, there's not really a rear neighbor or a homeowner has the lot that's behind them, so it's not really visible from anywhere. It's not on the front either. But again, part just advised we just discuss it to be
approval. Um, if we get more information from JCPML during construction about the size and placement, we could submit that, which don't have it at the moment, but we did advise that that would probably be the location for it. And in the second exhibit, um, we have
[clears throat] an alternate rear elevation that has the arch window omitted. We're not really sure yet what we're going to do with ceiling height and that primary suite if it's going to be 8 ft all the way across or we'll go up a little bit higher in the middle. We go up a little bit higher, we'll be able
to fit this window. If we did 8 ft all across, we should be able to fit it. So why didn't you advise us to just talk about it and possibly avoid having to go back to maybe having a condition that's happening [clears throat] included or
not included in the project regardless of the approval visualize it? >> Yeah. So which which window? >> The the elliptical arch window here. The three in here would stay regardless, but depending on ceiling height that is
decided on for the primary suite, we may or may not have that up upper transit window because we won't have the height underneath the ceiling. So >> So what what is it [clears throat] you want to submit? And then we just have to
note what you're making potentially. >> We're hoping to just have it noted as a in the condition in the approval that the March window is is I don't know how you want to phrase it, but permit it to be either in or out of the project. >> Okay. So, but you want it in, however,
it may not fit. So, the option is to take it out, but ideally you want it in. >> Yeah. So, our preference is to have it in because we like the way it looks from [clears throat] the outside. But we so we kind of started working more on the inside. You know, it's a traditional house inside. So, I know there's a lot
of focus on how it looks from the outside, but also the inside, we want to make sure the vaulted ceiling that would be required to fit a larger window wouldn't disrupt the character of the house on the inside inside also. So, I
think we're getting comfortable with just keeping it with the with the uh the half moon um because it's it's consistent with other windows on on across the property, but you know, we didn't want to
>> Well, I [clears throat] guess we'll we'll say it's there and then it's an option. I mean, you don't have to put it in. >> Yeah. And you can make it a condition that if if it's not included, you know, you just submit um an update. >> Sure. Yeah. Once we do construction draw
as well as the PH as well. So, >> all right. That's okay. >> Yeah. Those are our updates from the conceptual review and the exhibits are are updates that haven't been submitted yet. So, we have for tonight if there's
any other questions for answer. Uh if there's any comments, questions, >> pretty good. >> I'm I'm pretty good with that. I think the only thing we we would say is we would add in the option that the window
may be removed. >> Um we'll open up to the public if there's any questions from the public on this application. >> Okay. Um All right. With that, then is there a motion to approve the application as it exists with the note that that one window may actually not
install as it's constructed? >> Second. [clears throat] >> Take a call. >> Dr. Davis, >> yes. >> Rosen, >> yes. >> Justin Salen, >> yep. >> Elizabetha,
>> yes. >> Christine Beth, >> yes. Miss Ray. >> Yes. >> Thanks for being around. That >> moving on to the next application on the
docket is uh application number 62 that has been carried to the next to February 126 um >> 17 minutes without further notice. So, anybody here from the public, you will not be if you're here about 17 minutes in, you
will not be getting further notice, >> but it will be on the next next. >> All right. Then, moving on to the uh next application is uh number 626, 8 Chestnut Place, block 214, lot 4. This
is a contributing property to the Shore Hills District Park historic district. Uh Ross and Leticia Cretzman application to construct house edition and other associated exterior. Welcome. And if you could please state
your name. >> Rossman. Daniel. >> Okay. And for the record, this uh matter was carried from the December 4th meeting. Yes. Um, so no further notice is required.
Um, okay. If you could do you both swear or affirm the testimony you're going to provide this evening and the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Okay. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Real briefly. So, thank you for your time. We were appearing last month for
the December meeting and we walked away with some comments from the board. Uh so we adjusted our plans to reflect uh to the good feedback we had received and I if I may I could just run through the small material changes we made uh to the
to the project. Um of course we submitted to Barton I got his report um seems like he blesses and confers occurs with our amendments. Uh so really quickly some of the takeaway from last
month was we have a onestory roof on your painting house on the right side elevation or I should say the south side that currently previously had a basketball shingles we've now updated that to the standing seat copper roof.
Uh so that was a nice change. One of the larger changes that we had made this result meeting is There's an addition that exists on the back of the house inside that potent thinking about removing it and adding
asphalt because well was frankly less expensive. But having heard the comments from the board, we decided to leave the slate and extend it. So that'll be on the right side of the house. Uh we'll have slate. Um then there was some really nice
feedback on the shutters. Uh so we're going to match the existing shutters which are louvered and we're going to add them to both side elevations. So our lifting windows um on the side will now update to the shutters.
And finally we've we came up with a grill pattern. The house is a bit confused. On the front of the house it's 8 over eight. On the sides it's 6 over six. And we propose 6 over six on the back. uh this way giving us a still the
traditional feeling but having it a little bit less uh more volumes. So we've done uh six over six on the double homes and we've added which we did not have before. We had uh no grills on our
patio doors. Now we have 15 lights. So more the lack of of tradition. Um, and the upper railing, we were proposing a composite railing. We've now designed it to be a cedar railing to be painted. And
all the ASAC trim that was previously planned and now will be a product called BAL, which will be painted and uh the nice trim on the existing. >> Can you explain what that is? or >> it's just uh so with the ASAC is more of
a cellular PVC product that obviously very common because it doesn't uh the brow is more made of a fly ash material. So it's less plastic material more of guess they call fly ash. So it's a
little bit more stable than the ASA a little bit more expensive but not not that much more. So it equally pays as well. So, we're going to be using that product to make our new accessory trim pieces of the house.
>> Where is that? >> So, anywhere that we're going to have window casing and then rake boards and or boards will be made product. So, the siding is going to stay the same.
The siding of the existing cedar. So that's what we use in addition the cedar and anytime we need uh trim accents which is really just window casing door casing uh will be this product
>> and that's all in the back >> in the back of the house. Yeah. Uh those are our changes and updates to to the uh to our plans and and uh it was nice to hear basically Bart Tone said
that uh he found it to be more more keeping with the architectural features and uh believe of course we would submit our construction drawings to the board. Okay. Um,
any questions from the commission on this application? >> I I noticed all the changes. I I I was just a little confused because I know that you went ahead and did the the roof that they asked, you know, with the standing seam right on the side. >> Is I hope this isn't a student question.
Um, is any portion of the roof now asphalt? I think you might have said something about that, but >> the only portion of the roof that will be asphalt is the addition on the second floor um would be asphalt shingles because
that you just can't see from >> so it would be both both sides coming down. >> Yes, the the gable roof on the second floor which u will be very very very hard to see. And did you submit a sample of the
shingle just as it relates to >> what kind of match we have? It's actually we have some we have some already and then with calculator what we have to remove to make some of the adjustments we'll we'll have now the existing stuff to go for that gas
stockpile for just what we use just in case. >> Yes. Danny, on the back on on the the drawing of the back of the house like the second level. >> Yes. >> Not an important point, but it looks
like the the roof or the know what's the roof is sort of squared off. Does it look like in the last version it was kind of arched more? >> Yes. Thank you. So, the porch on the second floor will kind of mimic uh well,
just a very traditional game. So, no arches flat. Thank you. Oh, it looks better. >> Yeah. And then what we did, which we discovered uh at the meeting last time, is there was a really nice freeze board on the front of the house. It's pretty thick. Had some cool detail.
So, we're going to actually match that freeboard on the front. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh Matt, did you have any comments you wanted to add from Barton's report? No, I think uh Andy kind of hit everything
that we spoke about. Um yeah, comments. >> Any other comments, questions? >> Okay. >> Well, it was concept, but now this is an application. >> It was an application. >> Yeah. I mean, they noticed they noticed the last time. Um
so um >> paranormal >> yeah but you're presenting the full application you know with revisions um >> yeah you know so I don't
do we have enough people here that were here the last time but I think >> you should still be able to vote because you're you're >> carrying everything you know um and you were provided with all of the documentation >> that's the full application Okay. I thought I thought other times too
>> for continuation of >> Yeah. >> It was conceptual last time. >> Oh, it was conceptual last time. >> Oh, it was >> wasn't it wasn't >> it wasn't Yeah, it was very exact. We ask
>> um if it wasn't cons if it was if >> Yeah, I don't have Sorry to >> It was my business as a full application. >> Okay. [clears throat] >> On um the on the little bumpouts. Uh I the drawing like I'm just trying to
figure out what's going on with the um here I was going to what's going on with the the roof line here at least the way it's drawn I don't >> elevation >> yeah just >> uh that's existing so he has a bay window that >> it's just a bay window with with it as
>> well that'll have the slate >> okay got it that's all I need to know it's just the way it was drawn >> yeah that exists now we have to rise that roof up a little bit higher and we're going to actually any uh any questions for the public on this
application? Um, at this point then is there a motion by the commission to approve this application continuation? >> Uh, did you listen to the hearing from last month? >> No. Okay. Then
>> so those that were present >> and make a motion >> or or if you can confirm that you did in fact watch the hearing. I'll make a motion because I was here. >> You can second. >> I'm sorry. I meant to say second. I was
like, you go first. >> So, with with that, we can ask for a roll call on that motion. >> Gary Rosen, >> yes. >> Justin Salen, >> yes. >> Christine Best, >> yes. >> And I leave it to council to
>> hear that. >> I would. as unanimous of those that can vote. >> Um, yeah. Um, let me just double check. Uh, well, Alison, but she's not present today. And Brad Jenkins, but he's not
present today. Sorry, I'm Yeah, it's approved. >> Congratulations. Thank you very much. Appreciate the time. This is really fun. Really enjoyed it. Good luck with the Thank you so much.
>> Thank you. >> All right, moving on to the next application. Number four on our list. Application number 624. This is going to be carried to next month's meeting on February the
12th. Um so that can go next. >> So no further notices will be forward. Um no further notices will be issued. So if uh public you're here for that application, you will not be receiving further written notice. >> All right. Then the next application is
number 65 for 62 West Drive. is also being carried to the next meeting. And so again, >> oh, this is a conceptual >> that's a conceptual, but that will also be uh carried to next
month, February 12th. Um, but they're not >> this the one Matt, you said you guys were trying to write the Zoom meeting. >> Okay. Um, yeah. So we don't have it's just adjourned because we don't have another date at
this point, right? >> Okay. Yeah. So it's just off for now. >> Y >> and they'll they'll notice when um when they are when they need to >> Okay. >> So that was number five. Next on our
list is discussion of potential self designation process for Woodfield uh neighborhood. And I believe we've all been provided with the most upto-date um nomination or work.
>> I'm not quite sure what else would be discussed about has it been to the >> um no the um the hearing was noticed for January 22nd >> to the special meeting? Yes.
>> Oh, that's a special meeting. >> And is that a How does that meeting taking place person? >> It's taking place in person here. Uh everyone who is on schedule A who would be directly affected as part of district was noticed as well as anyone within
200. >> Okay. So that'll be January 22nd. Uh that is two weeks from J at 7:30.
Okay. >> And at that point, uh, the how does we're presenting it to the public or is this a comment? >> Yes. This is where comments and um concerns, questions, all of that would be coming from everyone who received the
notice or >> Okay. >> That's the board or that's so that we're need. >> Yes. Yes. That is true. We can zoom in.
>> I think so. >> All right. Good. >> Uh, exciting. So, nothing further on that >> then. That concludes the old business and we'll move on to new business. So, that would be application number 628.
This is for 43 Cedar Street, lot 206, lot seven, the contributing property in the Wyoming Historic District. Uh Jonathan Hickman and Chong are the applicants. Uh this is a regulatory application to construct a wood parapet with the existing draw.
>> All right. And for the record, um notices the certified mail slips and publication have been reviewed and are satisfactory. So the commission has jurisdiction take care of this application. >> Thanks. If you could identify yourself
please and spell your last names. >> Uh John H M. >> Daniel A L L O CC A and I'm the architect. >> Okay. Um and are you licensed in the state of New Jersey? >> Yes.
>> Okay. Okay. And is your license in good standing? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, and can you give the board a the benefit of your educational and professional background, please? >> Sure. >> I my bachelor of architecture for men in 2014. I gained experience working at several local architecture firms um
before becoming a licensed New Jersey state architect in 2021. Since then, I have operated my own practice DJ architect in East Hanover with a focus on residential and smallcale design. Uh this is my first time appearing before this board. Uh though I've recently
presented before the South Orange Historic Preservation Commission. >> Okay, sounds good. Thank you. Uh please go ahead with your presentation. >> Thank you for having us tonight. I'm here on behalf of the homeowners John and she regarding the property at 43
Cedar Street located within the Wyoming Historic District. I'll try to keep this brief and straightforward. I'll begin with why we're here this evening, then touch on the historic context and the existing conditions and conclude with the proposed work focusing on how the design respects the historic character of the home and surrounding the
district. The purpose of tonight's review is to demonstrate the proposed work here compatible with the historic character of the home and fits comfortably within the surrounding historic district as shown on the proposed site plan on sheet G0.1. Uh the the uh property does not have a
traditional backyard. While there's a small front patio, it is located within the front yard. Um it lacks privacy and does not have a strong connection back to the house, making it less suitable for family gatherings or everyday outdoor use.
The intent of this project is to adapt an existing underutilized and deteriorating roof area above the partially attached garage uh into a modest outdoor roof deck. Uh this work does not increase the building footprint or lot coverage and
most importantly does not alter the home's overall massing or architectural character. Instead, I believe it helps establish a more cohesive uh architectural relationship between the main house and the garage. Uh 43 Cedar Street was constructed in
1900 at the turn of the century and is a contributing property within the Wyoming historic district. Architecturally, the home reflects early 20th century residential design with Dutch colonial revival uh influence and shingle style characteristics. Its masting proportion
gamber roof framing uh formar cedar shingle sidings and simple dormer compositions are defining features of the house. As shown in photo number six on sheet G0.2, the existing uh screen and front porch
is an important architectural element of the home. When the house was built, porches commonly served as social spaces and as a transitional transition between the interior of the home and the public street. While the porch remains a charming and functional feature, it limited size allows for only
a few chairs and does not comfortably support contemporary use for for family or guests. One important design reference was the existing porch parit. >> Sorry, can we just stop one second? >> [clears throat]
>> Oh, one important design reference was the existing uh porch parapit or the Nord um >> excuse me. >> Yeah. Sorry. >> Somebody
>> Oh, sorry. I'm just gonna while we're stopped, um >> gonna just double swear again if I didn't and double swear again if I already did. >> Um sorry. Do you swear that the testimony you have provided and will provide um will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do.
I do. >> Okay. >> So, yeah. The one uh important design reference that uh from the existing uh porch was the uh the guard wall that
they they have there. Um the this element establishes a a clear architectural president of the house and help guide uh the design approach for the proposed garage rooftop deck. uh allowing the new the new work to relate back to the home's established language.
Currently, the roof above the garage is low slope roof with no functional use. And both the roofing and portions of the structure have reached the end of their service life as we can see in photo 11. Um
I think just a lot of rain water and it's a lot of the the wood the existing wood is deteriorating. Um and in addition uh an existing unfinished wood deck is located between the house and the garage it provides
access to the secondary entrance. As mentioned from a site standpoint property does not have a traditional backyard or usable outdoor gathering space. So rather than pursuing conditions that could impact the lot or historic character of the home. Homeowners explored whether an existing portion of the house in need of repair
could be sensitively adapted to meet that need while creating a more cohesive overall architectural language uh and massing. So getting into the proposed uh work there are nearby there's there's actually a nearby example um within the Wyoming's historic
district where a garage roof [snorts] uh has been sensitively adapted into usable outdoor space. Um, it's also a contributing property and it's at the corner of Cedar Street and Wyoming Avenue, uh, 422 Wyoming Avenue. I don't
have any pictures of it tonight. Um, but I, you know, I feel as though it's they did a pretty good job with it. Um, in terms of, uh, preserving the home's massing is kind of what what our idea
was with this project. Um, with that context in mind, as as you can as you can see in the 3D perspective rendering on sheet zero uh G0.2 photo one, um, the proposal uh at 43 Cedar Street
introduces the 36 inch tall guard wall around the perimeter of the garage roof deck. Um, and this element is directly derived from the existing porch parap shown in photo six. And in addition to serving as a code compliant card, the parapet visually screens deck furniture
provides a modest level of privacy to both the homeowners and the adjacent neighbors without introducing elements that would read out read as out of character. The parapit will be flattened cedar shingled siding to match the existing house and material spacing, exposure and pattern installed in
straight courses with subtle variations of finished with painted or um finished with a painted uh painted to match the existing. This approach allows the new work to blend seamlessly with the original
structure. The white composite cap is detailed to finish and protect the parapit. However, the homeowners would be comfortable substituting a painted wood cap uh to better match the existing wood trim preferred. Access to the rooftop deck is handled in
a simple and discrete manner through the adjacent adjacent existing porch side entrance avoiding new exterior stairs, added masking or unnecessary visual clutter. In summary, this project represents a modest and thoughtful adaptation of an existing condition. It
maintains the home's footprint, massing and historic hierarchy, draws directly from architectural elements already pres present on the house and improve capability without introducing new development pressure on the site. Overall, the intent is to meet contemporary needs while maintaining the
integrity of this turn of the century residence. Thank you for your time. Happy to answer any questions questions. So, so this wall, this wall around the paramet from the floor.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, it would be three uh three feet. Yep. Three feet in which is like the minimum, >> right? >> So, if people were standing up on that deck, would they be visible from the street? >> Yes.
>> If they're on a chair, would they be visible from the street? >> Um, partially. Maybe like around the shoulder that had similar to what it would be like with the like if when they're sitting in the porch, you know, the existing porch by the front door.
>> You'd be kind of angled because like when you're on our porch because the street is at a downward angle from the house. So the house is on a subtle incline up and then once you go up, you also have like the garage there. And so we're on top of that garage. >> If you were like equal level, like equal
elevation with it, yeah, you would definitely see it. Given that angle, you might see a very small amount, but it would certainly be obvious. >> I have a question. >> Okay. I have a couple number of questions. Um, you're talking about the
parapet on the front porch. It looks like it is it's the same sidewall as what you basically are creating because I can't tell from the image. That's why I just double check. Okay. No, it's fine. So, because that was a question if it wasn't. And then what is the structure that's in the front yard that
looks like I'm not sure. >> So, that's hot tub or >> it's like a patio like a paper patio. >> That's just raised. It's a raised area. >> Um I think that's actually like a um a like a retaining wall they put. >> Oh, okay. Got it. Yeah, it's maybe like
two feet tall and it's just a stone that comes up. >> Okay. Yeah, I just couldn't tell. I >> a little U shape. >> So So the only thing that I wanted to ask is what is the flooring of the deck? Um and are you like I mean and sort of drainage holes, you know, because that's
not in the design of what it would look like. >> Yeah. So, um there's So, basically what we're planning to use is like a fiberglass like top mocks. Um kind of like what you'd see down the shore on those rooftop decks. Um potentially a color probably just to match the the
siding, like a light gray. Um and then, you know, the the roof is actually pitched toward the rear right now. Um, so, uh, we would probably add some scuppers on the rear side wall so the water could get directed to them and we could pick up that rain water in a in a
gutter. >> A gutter. Okay. >> And then the neighbors, I I I apologize. I didn't get to go out and drive to the house. you know, the neighbors on the right hand side, >> are they do they have some type of patio
set up there that they your your new roof deck would be intrusive to them in any way? I was just trying to understand the structure of their house. >> So, if I'm looking at the garage, right? So, on the right hand side, we have two neighbors. One maybe like closer to the front half and one to the farther half. Uh the front half one is very similar to us where there's really no like usable
space in the backyard. There's like a walkway and then that's it. Um, the ones a little bit behind us have a very small outdoor space. They have like a I think they have like a little kitchen table out there. Uh, but they're a truly tall evergreens between us and them. And then
the neighbor behind us does have a fairly substantially sized backyard, but kind of same story line between us. I was just wondering and then and the the only thing that I was having some I mean well some difficulty was understanding the transition from the additional deck
stairs that you built up the newer construction you know how that's going to transition into the space um because you don't really show that in that existing photograph. And also my my call out from a design perspective is you know that was probably put on beforehand
you know um but you know when you see the front stoop and then you see this the new parapet continuing on um you know I was just wondering if there's some way that you could I don't know maybe cover the bottom of that in a column or something to make it sort of
blend or put some of the white trim you talked about as a capping open cap on the top or something just to soften you know that deck just looks like a standardized deck on a really beautiful No, I'm not talking about the deck. The little staircase.
>> Yeah, we we've been talking about that for a while. It's been kind of something we were uh thinking about trying to get to. But then, you know, like whether just to completely re, you know, finish it like
completely re uh do the the deck then, you know, the budget was coming the line. Um I do I think that's the one part of the house that kind of takes away from the historical language. Uh
like you said it um just really doesn't fit in that well the picture also think >> Yeah. Yeah. If it matters to the committee don't without the house. >> No. Yeah. No. I mean, I figured that because I think you guys originally had some type of structure on the top of
your railing that, you know, gave in your original because this went through the minor work review, didn't it? I can't remember. I think I saw it in there. >> And um >> so you had some type of structure. I guess I think Bart maybe asked >> to take it off again because it was too high. I can't remember.
>> I was just pointing that out. I think you guys put that there for the privac for privacy purposes, you know. So, >> I mean, it's not like, you know, obviously it was existing. I was just trying to see how there was on the deal breaker. >> Yeah, >> that was it.
>> I'm sorry. Can I just clarify? So, if you're standing on the deck and you're looking to the neighbor on the right, >> it looks like you've got a you've got a bunch of trees. So, wait, do you do you look into their house? Do you like how close are you to the next house? So the
actual clearance from like a property line perspective on that side is probably 8 to 10 feet somewhere in that aspect. Um so I get on the roof fairly frequently just to like move wires around and things like that. Uh and you can't
really look down very easily like if you look up you'll see like their roof through the through the trees and things like that. Uh the neighbor so on the right hand side right there's two neighbors one in front one in behind. one in the front you can't see at all in any way shape or form like their house is basically not visible from that
angle. >> Okay. >> Uh the one in the back parts of the house become visible during the winter when kind of like the trees and stuff become a little bit less uh >> and then the one in the backyard from the roof I don't think you can see
all. We do have angles like if you go upstairs in our house and like you look out the window, you can kind of like look over the trees and look down in the backyard because they're not quite as tall as the ones on the right hand side, >> right? >> But the roof is too low to the ground. You wouldn't really have an angle there. >> Okay.
>> Are there any varian you're within, you know? >> Yeah, I'm assuming so. Um, you know, because the like the the rear property line is, you know, like that the whole garage probably is within. So,
>> we were going to move to zoning after >> after this. >> Yeah. >> I'm trying to think of where you may go wrong, but I [laughter] >> see you again. >> Our benefit is we're not like >> uh increasing the footprint, right? you
know, and then maybe if we add some uh water mitigation strategies, >> you know, >> and no lighting up there, right? >> No. >> No. >> Um I mean, because you could, as you say, you use it right now. You're just kind of changing what you're
>> I kind of You're not going to put any lighting. >> There won't be a light at the stairs. >> Yeah. I'm I'm just trying to see like I would think at the minimum honest because how it would be nonfunctional without any type of >> Yeah. Like any like hanging LEDs type of stuff uh that would be blatant to the
neighbors. Definitely not. But I think you did uh mention you might put it on the interior side of the wall. Uh maybe just like a plug in LED light. >> Yeah. Talked about like you know like the Philips Hue strips that kind of like go around. We've debated like putting that at the bottom um and just kind of like going around the interior of the
deck just so you can kind of like see the floor and see your footing a little bit. Um barring something like that. We probably just we plan on putting like a table small table out there and we probably [snorts] do a small table lamp. Um something along that line, but nothing that is like uh would have significant lighting or or anything like
that. No permanent fixtures either. >> What? >> No permanent fixtures either. No, I mean I I I I was just I maybe I you know because I I I think LED lighting would actually be because it's you're going to need to have lighting up there and so
you know maybe just think about things that are on dimmers that are warmer lights you know that are within keeping fixtures within keeping the house that can go out on time or that's all I was just trying to suggest because I can't imagine not having lighting at a place where you might have friends over
cocktail at night. this just doesn't really seem realistic to me. >> Yeah. >> So, just I mean I would just that that was my >> Yeah. I guess it's not going to be like in your face type of way that's going to bother the neighbors kind of thing if I more ambient like you were mentioning. >> So, >> yeah, I think if you do it that way
Yeah. >> I'm quite a uh a teacher in the home for lack of a better word. So, we I have it configured where like we sit on the couch like lights in because we assume you're going to watch TV and then when you get out like the lights turn on. Um, so anything we add out there, I assume I would do something similar where like it's going to do some type of presence
detection and you know if it detects someone out there, it might turn on the strips around it and then as soon as it detects that those people have left it. >> Matt, is there something anything you want to add from Barton's report? I mean, I know he's
in and approving of this. >> Yeah, I mean not particularly. I thought the parable fit. >> Matt, one second. Sorry. Um, because I need to swear you in. >> Of course. >> Um, can you state your name for the record? >> Yes. Matthew Dan. >> And you got >> D O H N. >> Okay. And you are with >> Barton Rosson Partners LLC.
>> Okay. And do you swear the testimony we're going to provide this evening will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. Yes. Uh, yeah. I thought the parapit wall fit in very seamlessly. It was like it should have been there while when it was constructed. And yeah, besides showing where scuppers would be and making sure
that it fits correctly, I don't have any problems with the design in any other capacity. >> All right, thank you. Um, I question any questions from the public on this application? >> Um, concerns that
>> So, first off, um, just come up. >> Okay. My name is John. >> Your last name. >> You spell that please. >> F is in Frank. E M I N E L L A and I
reside 71 M. So the first point I'd like to raise is on the notification which you mentioned was um appropriate. >> Okay. So, with that being said, uh the
neighbor that they're talking about to the right, I don't feel that they were notified or my notification didn't seem to be correct. So, I don't know the standard. I don't know what the requirement is, but it's I I don't I
received a certified letter, >> but I don't know if it's supposed to be certified or received or Okay. >> supposed to. Yes. >> So, I never signed. >> Okay. because it was not done properly. So my concern is my neighbor at 73 which
is on the right hand side is away and I'm watching the problem. They went away for two weeks to Europe. So if it was done like mine was done, they're not even aware of this. And I could show it to you if you
>> No, I mean I can I can see it. So >> Okay. So the problem is is that the return address is my address for the the card. So it should be there at the other address card sending. I checked the post office today. >> Okay. Yeah. I can't >> Well, that's what I'm saying. If you
want >> So I mean I can I can tell you what the statute requires. Yeah. >> Um it requires that notice be sent certified mail within no less than 10 days prior to the hearing. um it does not specify that delivery be
acknowledged or you know anything signed for. Um so by sending the notices in the mail in the way that they did to the addresses that they were required to send to >> they satisfied that part of the requirement. Okay.
>> There was also publication in the newspaper as required. Um, so even if your neighbors were >> away and didn't, you know, couldn't get their mail picked up or what have you, um, they could have seen, you know, an online newspaper ad or something because it was published via the the require the
designated newspapers. >> All right. So I Okay, that's fine if if you're satisfied. Yeah, that's fine. Um, the other point I'd like to get is that it's a unique situ I feel it's a unique situation unfortunately. Um, and the uh
the home never had a backyard. Uh, obviously B8, but I'm I'm at the residence at 71 for 38 years. And the garage that we're speaking about is 20 literally 27 and a half inches away from the property.
So there is no buffer zone here. We have no there is no buffer. It's just, you know, the way it's uh constructed, you know, it's just the way it's been. However, it got like that. That's how it is. Then with regard to the comments
about the other the 73's yard, the yard, they have a yard. They have a yard, they have a barbecue, you know, they they use it, you know, for outdoor space. So, it is right where we talk.
And with that, the tree line ends prior to their yard. So the trees I don't I don't know what we're looking at but the trees don't continue all the way to the fence line on my property or there of all seven and 3.
Um and I just the reason I brought them up is because they're probably the only other party that may be concerned but as you know that's up to them. Um, so that's my concern is that then it gets to the runoff that was mentioned because
there is no clearance. It's only 27 and a half inches. The garage is set back further than the house. So the house is probably three or 4 feet closer uh to the street
than the garage. So the garage is closer to the back property. So you know that um you know it's the lights the noise people and because of the elevation you know the noise or the lighting could parry as opposed to if
there's a ground level outdoor space being created which I think there are options other options to do poss you know but that's your um and um as far as the Wyoming residents
would be outdoor above garage space. I don't know if any of you have gone by, but it's a entirely different situation because that is toward the street that the garage is on the street. This garage is at the back of the property and the
level the property is level in the front. So you could either create outdoor space to the left side of the garage or I mean if you're looking at it from the street there is an area to the right side of the garage ground level you know you could create outdoor space. Uh the point I'm trying to make is on
the if you go to Wyoming residents the above they're they're 30 40 feet away from any property and there is they're even further from the backside property. So there's no surrounding um area around
Wyoming rooftop garage living space that is really uh intrusive in any way to to the people around me. So that's the other point I'd like to make about that profit. Um and that's really my concerns and it's not so much I just want to
bring it to your attention in the um consideration. You know I don't Yeah. finished. Can I ask a question? >> Yeah. Are you finished? >> Yeah, sure. I just wanted to ask you. So just from um your description of lot 10
which is behind I I um >> how far is that house in your opinion from the property line in terms of like where the house and uh well I guess it would be their the house that's lot 10 that is in their back you know behind
behind them. Do you know like how close that house might sit to the prop their property line approximately? I'm just trying to confirm they're talking about 73. >> No, it's the one behind >> it's block 2206 lot 7 behind the house. It's behind
>> the one with the >> Yeah, that's me. >> That's Oh, you're behind. Okay. So, how far how many feet um is your patio >> from the the property line and how many or where your outdoor space is and how many feet is your >> That's what I'm saying. The garage is 27 and a half inches from the property.
>> No, I I Yeah, I Okay. From from the No, but from your house. I just want to understand how much >> Well, I have I um from the house I would say I I mean patios maybe >> um 20 feet maybe 20 maybe even 10.
>> Do you want an aerial view? I have the >> Yeah, you can. >> I [laughter] should have just looked it up like I'm so tired. I was just trying to because >> this is one and this is [clears throat] >> the
Thank you. Thanks. >> Okay. So it's it's so it has to do with the elevation as far as carrying you know you know I mean it the house you know never had a yard it was bought without a
yard I mean yes >> it's not a new you know so to create living space as as a yard I mean I think >> you know ground level is down there just could be other alternative so I'm not
you know trying I'm just making you aware of >> proximity of of this project and it's unique. I I don't think >> and under current standards or anything it would be this situation. You know what I mean? I don't think we'd be that
close. >> Well, I think I think the issue here is that this is the historic preservation commission and we're talking about does it fit within the character in the context of the district. So I do think some of the issues are probably going to come up in planning when it's reviewed for the variance and that's why I asked
that because to me it seemed like there's probably some issues that will be raised. We can talk about this from a perspective of its historic setting and I do think you'd have an opportunity to uh talk about the work that they want to do in the future at the next uh stage of
this process. So um I mean we appreciate your your comments on on this. I do think you'd have another opportunity to raise that Um, yeah. And it's certainly valid what you're bringing up. >> All right. >> Is that I'm not trying to discount what
you're saying. I'm just trying to say what our um our our responsibility here is to talk about does this fit within the setting. And what you've heard is that the design does. It's just that it may have some potential from a
planning or sorry zoning perspective. >> Right. Even talking about drainage, >> right? So I mean >> and again >> the proximity to the to the the property line that basically you know is an issue >> right will probably come up during this
but thank you for your comments. We appreciate that. >> Appreciate it. >> Thank you. [clears throat] >> Is there any other >> is there back? We'll see. I don't see a back view this house. Am I missing something? >> There's a side view. You just did the
Did you do a map view of the elevation? >> No, >> because I I I actually just I think that's important to have >> in terms of I mean obviously it's front facing but like in terms of keeping to your point of character is that that it works visually with the house. Um
particularly in light of the proximity of the property line what you brought up. It's just my opinion. I would like to be able to see that before decision. >> Which which photograph is the side view? Daniel >> number 12 is like from you're behind the house looking at the garage and you can
see the one of the points that he raised was how the garage was closer to the property line and that's exactly what you see there right is so the wall on the right is the back of the house like the actual home structure and then it kind of jets out like another I don't know like two two and a half feet and
then continues on so that jet out that's entirely the garage >> and that fence there that chain fence that is it's on our side of the property line but it It's like basically riding exactly on the property line. >> So, so that is the is it kind of a
distorted image? I'm trying to understand is it the width of the >> so uh so that's looking from uh basically behind the house and you're looking um >> Oh, I see. >> Yeah, >> it's very narrow. I thought >> Yeah, I couldn't really get back there.
I wasn't quite thin enough. >> Okay. It's a very It's a very tiny I've never walked through that >> might get stuck there. >> There's also a lot of There's a lot of like plants and stuff back here. So, you're probably get torn up.
>> So, that perspective would have this raised parapit that going up above where that little plant is coming up. >> Yeah. Like right over the uh fence there. And >> Right. Right. uh looks like about
roughly two to three feet over the fence is the um say that the uh >> elevation of the roof. >> Yep. >> And it would be another 3 ft. >> So I mean like you were mentioning
before like you would be probably always sitting down. I don't know why you would be standing you know. >> Yeah. out there. But, >> you know, I definitely do understand the concern as well from the neighbor. >> Is is the worry, if I may, am I allowed to ask a question?
>> Um, [laughter] >> so I mean, it's it's really limited to we're here really limited to, you know, historic aspects of everything. um you're free to talk because it sounds like you're going to have to go in front likely going to have to go in front of
the zoning board if this you know um if you're if this gets approved. So you're more than welcome to talk after the meeting and you know >> um talk about any concerns he may have um pre zoning board meeting or um
but really it's only what the historic commission can address. Any other questions for the Yeah. >> Uh any other questions from the public? >> Uh the zoning notification. So it goes
before or it it goes before zoning or >> if it does need to go in front of the zoning board um or the planning board zoning board. Um if it does need to go in front of the zoning board for any variances, then you would receive notice. And this definitely will, you
know, because we're away the existing setbacks probably before the garage for the zone that it's in. I think it's uh the rear setback is supposed to be 20% of the lot.
and we're just too >> it'll definitely be going to zoning and we'll definitely do >> uh well with that I think um I'll look for the commissioner to if there's a motion to approve the application as it exists.
>> Can we also approve what they use? Because I mean this is kind of a you know like it's not like a standard shingle, right? like it's like kind of like a shorter shingle like I just want to make sure that we're actually matching the rest of the house because >> yeah I think in in Barton report we're
asking for uh architectural construction documents submitted the permit would be present to us >> okay second on that >> okay uh we got a vote for Zachary Davis. >> Yes.
>> Robert Franle. >> Yes. >> Gary Rosen. >> Yes. >> Justin S. >> Yes. >> Elizabeth Wanga. >> Yes. >> Christine Best. >> No. >> Ray Kano. >> Yes. >> Okay, that's approved. Good luck with
your project and uh >> hope you have a chance to work out. Thank you. uh that is the only new business. There is an advisory review that we have now. Um this is for
application number 608 Taylor Park Gateway 100 Main Street block 804 lot 10 AP contributing property the downtown Boulder historic district. this attached to the builder applicant to um what's known as the property gateway and
landscape improvements at the park. Um there were plans that were provided by the town for our review regarding some lighting improvements which is known as >> trailer park path lighting phase two. Um we had seen this previously um by review
and we asked have the full commission. Um I don't know folks had a chance to review this or not. There's more the town here. >> So this is a advisory which means we get to review and comment on what they want
to do. I know you guys comments on this and >> I mean I I'm new to this board, so I obviously know I'm hold you because you [laughter] smack me side, but I there's an ongoing
problem with historic properties and we've already sort of, you know, had this gateway project that wasn't, you know, run by HBC and um there's this like problematic process of when
we ask who they'll put over >> [clears throat] >> just remind them that everything is being picked up on the microphone, please. >> Um, >> but you've seen you've seen the applicant. >> Yeah. No, I I was it came through minor work review and I recommended that it
went through the full committee because I I'm very concerned that, you know, it's this is historic property. I think it's it's a beautiful space and it's in a lot of disrepair. You know, it really really is compared to all the Essex County parks. And you know it was
designed in more of an Mstead feel. And so what's been happening is the town and you know part of Mr. Willow has been involved in a design process is kind of ad hocing the design of the park in sort of little segments you know like little
beats you know like saying oh I'll kind of update my kitchen with some new tile. And um and so you know it all costs money. And so, you know, I talked brought this up to Alison about having a master plan for the park. And I feel like, you know, that that really should
be done before more money get I don't know what the actual cost of this project is. I I maybe I didn't read enough, but um you know, the lights are they're okay, but you know, they cost money. They're going to be placed and then, you know, two years down the road, we're going to redesign the park and
possibly move walkways and pathways and, you know, maybe put another rose garden and whatever happens. and then all his lights are ripped out. So, you know, that's what I was asking Alex and I as a as a you know, a township resident, I made a comment in the township committee
about that. So, I really don't want to prove it, but I mean, you know, that's just my opinion, but um >> yeah, I think they're asking for comments. So, if you have comments on I think we can pass them on, right? Because it's an advisory role. We're not
even We don't have a We can >> I don't I You don't have a on >> Well, you got a lawyer. My understanding is no >> it's just like you give feedback and
then they incorporate >> right if they want. >> Yeah. >> And you know what this is doing is obviously in adding safety and security to the park which at night can be rather dark. So, uh, you're obviously adding a lot of lights through here. Um, the
lights are not, um, I mean, the design is something roughly pseudo historic, looking at lantern type lights that'll provide some light. Um, if you feel that there's a better plan of what could be
proposed, then we could propose that. Um but I agree with your comment about a master plan is probably appropriate for >> especially because it now is a historic property and agreed that you know this thing done here and there um it's going
to look different over time. So um maybe our advice on this is that we would encourage the town to seek a developing a master plan for Taylor Park that would retain the historic character of the resource.
I mean, I think, you know, there needs to be light. It's really dark at night. I've gone down there at night. >> It's not so good. Um, >> they've also already bought a portion of the lights, so it's kind of like this point, >> right? Because this is phase two. So, right, but I'm just, you know, but
that's kind of like how it seems to be going anyway. So, >> but now that Ch Park is a historic property, we have the opportunity to review what's going on. So, I think that's just want to be >> involved. That's what we're >> But I don't think it was a minor review
that we were doing. So, I do think because Park is such a critical uh resource for downtown, I think it's [clears throat] important that it does come before the the full. So, so that's probably our tips as we got
there. >> All right, great. Uh, with that, that is the end of the Taylor Park discussion. Uh, open meeting to the public. There's none left. Uh, we chased them all off. That's great. >> They may be watching.
>> Yes. Uh, that's the thing. I don't understand how they can't. But anyways, um, all right. Then there's we have discussion items. Chair is not here. So that will not happen. >> Yeah. Well, okay. Well, I did ask
>> is there is there a comment from the public? Uh so then uh there are a few discussion items on our agenda but we will not discuss them today because the chair is not here. Um anyone have anything else they'd like to add? Announcements.
I'm going to then say that we can meeting motion to close second. All right. >> Yeah. [laughter] Right. It's >> considering the agenda. Yeah, I saw it.