everybody to this Milburn Township Planning Board meeting in accordance with section five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 public law 1975. He advised that notice of this meeting was made by posting on the Bolton board and town hall and serving the officially designated newspapers a
list of the meeting dates annually indicating that this meeting would take place board of education education education center building at 7:30 p.m. on November 5th, 2025. Could I please have a roll caller
>> here? Are we do you want a problem speaker was buzzing so we turned them off that device been told by Alex McDonald up irrespective of microphone so just people in the
audience >> big loud >> here Michael Poe >> here >> Jorge Master Petro >> Deborah Neves >> here Frank Sakamandi here. >> Michael B.
>> Jonathan Baxter >> here. >> Sergey Sidskco >> here. >> Strey BJ >> here. >> Gaston Habert >> here. >> All right. We have uh several items on the agenda this evening. Approval of
minutes. Couple resolution to adopt an executive session, an application, and an ordinance to analyze for consistency. Um uh first off the approval of minutes from 9:17 2025.
Did everybody receive me the minutes? And were there any questions or comments? I will make a motion to approve the regular meeting minutes for 917 2025. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> All in favor?
>> All opposed? Motion passes unanimously. Um Uh, we also received the meeting minutes for the executive session on 917 2025. Assuming everyone received those as well. Were there any questions or
comments? I'll make a motion to approve the executive session minutes from 9:17 2025. Do we have a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> All oppose. Motion passes unanimously.
Okay. Um the first resolution that we have on the agenda is not quite finished. So we're going to carry that one to the next session. That's the memorialization of resolution application 25002 preliminary and final site plan with C
variance of the new Brook Country Club 11:08 Morris Turnpike block 5304 lot one. Again we're carrying that to the next session. Um the next up for the resolutions is the memorialization of
resolution for application 25003 preliminary and final site plan with C variance for CCATs fit LLC gym on 535 Milburn A block 1706 lot 2. Did everybody have a chance to go over
the resolution? Were there any questions or comments? I will, pardon me, make motion to adopt the memorializ or the resolution for application 25003. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Just bring
roll call vote, please. >> Cory Biller, >> yes. >> Allison Campfield, >> yes. >> Deborah Neas, >> yes. >> Frank Sakamandi, >> yes. >> Jonathan Baxter, >> yes. >> Serini BJ, >> yes. >> Gustin Hbert,
>> yes. Okay. And next up on our agenda, we would like to meet briefly in an executive session. Um, I promise it should be as brief or less than what the time we took last time. So, Miss, could you please uh guide us through that?
>> Sure. I'll abbreviate the resolution that's on file. It is an executive session. It's necessary for the planning board uh to go into executive session under the open public meetings act of pending litigation. So now therefore be of resolved public shall be excluded
from the discussion involving pending litigation specifically the Christ Center for Living Judaism versus Township of Melbourne at AL uh docket number uh 23- bear with me CV-1833. It's anticipated that the deliberations
conducted in closed session will be disclosed to the public upon a determination by the board that the public interest in will no longer be served by such confidentiality and the resolution shall take effect immediately. As with all resolutions, Mr. Chairman, a motion and second and
roll call vote to go into executive. I'll make a motion to go into executive sec session. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Roll call vote, please. >> Cory Diller, >> yes. Allison Canfield, >> yes. >> Michael Cohen, >> yes. >> Deborah Nez, >> yes. >> Prince Second,
>> yes. >> Jonathan Baxter, >> yes. >> Sergey STO, >> yes. >> VJ, >> yes. >> Cast, >> yes. >> I certainly don't. >> That's right. I find I'm out of that one. You
>> get to exempt yourself. >> Yeah, >> cuz it's that application why I'm sitting here. Got >> I objected to it. >> Oh, really? >> Going back to uh Hopewell on the 20th.
I'm hoping that that's the end. >> Okay. sick. Hope so. 20th of this month. >> November. Yeah. >> Okay. >> That should be the end. >> Yeah. See what happens.
>> It's big. Such a big job, man. I went to the site. You don't realize how big it is. >> Yeah. I I've looked at the plans. I mean, it's it's huge. >> But compared to the one they did to the north of it, it's like not even close. Other one's like,00 units. It's like 500 acres. This one's
likeund and like seven. >> Yeah. But it's still 600 and something units. >> I know. 600. >> Plus the one that they built over on >> Oh, yeah. They plus the collection, too. >> Yeah. That's the one I'm talking >> Yeah, >> because we did that. >> I mean, between the three of them, it's
like over 2,000 housing units. >> And there's still more along that corridor. There's still more. That's a >> along Federal >> along Scott Road. >> Scot. Yeah, the former Maril Lynch um should
want to get home. It's >> been a long week. It's only Wednesday night for payoff. >> I have open tomorrow. >> Yeah, we had enough. Last night off, right? >> Last night you got off. Well, not
exactly. >> Politics stuff events. >> Yeah. My one partner ran for council in Sparta. >> Oh, really? >> Okay. Okay. >> So, cuz he doesn't have enough to do. Better him to be.
Now you have the offices in Cedar and Old and then you're also in like Middle Sex, right? County. >> Um, actually our office is in Pipi now. >> Oh, really? >> And Freehold. >> Freehold. That's where Sean is, right? >> Yeah. Sean's in Freehold. Yeah. And then we have a
one of our traffic um offices in Burlington and we have an MEP office in Chimang. And you still have West Orange? >> No. No, I've been out of West Orange for
>> I mean South South Orange. >> Yes, I'm still in South Orange. Thanks. >> That was Monday night, >> right? >> And thankfully the zoning board meeting which was tonight because it usually it's Tuesday. >> How many boards do you have now? >> Planning zoning here stand at four.
Okay. >> It's enough. Yeah. You're going down to the week in two weeks. >> You stay multiple days or just go here? >> Going to have Tuesday morning. I'll come home Thursday. >> Take classes to get some credits and everything.
>> They don't really have any for just like whatever. >> Yeah. My dad still goes down to AC to a lot of those like conferences to get like is like continuing education. >> Yeah. >> Elite has never really had anything for engineers. >> Yeah.
>> You know the builders I do a >> I do the one seminar every year. >> Yeah. >> Carry on the tradition of Tony D. >> Yeah. The um South Arm self storage came out really nice. >> Yeah. >> Have you seen it?
>> Yeah. Yeah, it did come out nice. >> I would never admit that to Phil Abramson, but it did come out. >> Where did they put that one, Jason? Where is that? >> It's uh it's next to the park on Valley Road. It looks like they made it look like an old industrial building. It actually looks really nice. It's a
corner of Valley and Lacawana. >> Yeah, it's right next like a butts a park. So like there's all these like community features like a movie screen on the wall that they could use. There's like a community room. There's like a few little, you know, things that they
incorporated into the design because it was near the park and it was a redevelopment project. So they had the ability to do that. So >> yeah, >> but it did come out really nice. >> It did. It did. Took a while, it moving on. You're good. Everything's
great. Is fine. It's all in my letter. I mean, you know, just relax, Jason. I mean, jeez. [Music] Please keep just the way it moves.
That's just normal, Jason. >> That's normal. >> Yeah. >> Plus, I have to bust his chops. >> He's worked with me. He's worked with my dad. >> Have you seen Stiger lately? >> No. >> He's doing a lot better. >> Is he?
>> That's good. >> He's still working. >> Is he? But I think he made a pretty like recovery, >> you know. I I hadn't seen I haven't seen him in a while. >> You know what? Yeah.
Six stars who had children while they were still wait >> don't listen to that crab. >> I just listen to I just watched real about 67. >> I was my wife's a teacher. Google.
>> I don't know what it is. I just think it's funny. >> If you want to see a funny one, the YouTube South Park 67 big contract by power. >> Really? >> There's a billion dollars, right? >> Billion dollars. They're not stopping anytime soon.
>> The Simpsons has been on for like 40 years. >> Yeah, Simpson. They protect everything. >> Eric >> I unfortunately still watched it since I was 14. >> Um this like the actress is now
So, she's not really a lot of [Music] >> No, I'll tell you about my my Long Island experiences when I was at a big firm one day and you'll know why I refused. Is that where you
come? It was in Jericho. >> We're in Jericho. >> Yeah. >> But we have offices in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and a lot. But our main one is in Jericho. >> You're in the same building that I was in at my first my first law.
my eyes and said maybe try to people. So >> then be that way. Oh, right. I don't know.
I don't know. >> What do you mean? So we just do the throw program. >> Yeah. >> I was at my nephew lives and like his friends.
He's on the football team. [Music] You're still trying to talk to [Music] No, it was like another [Music]
paper. And they had anyone Chapter questions. They know to That way you Oh, she got Anybody [Music]
can What was that called? I would have only quite >> I would have only been involved like I've been doing their work I would say now for most 10 years but it's been >> but only when they do the development side of it mean I wouldn't have to get
involved in something >> they do that a lot internally I think >> that that's when it comes to stuff that's only internal >> no you it's but mostly higher alert most of the on internal team. They are internal team
hires are awarded if it's another state that New Jersey. >> So you said your son's at Duke now. >> Yeah. >> Was he there last year? >> No, he just missed. >> So this is freshman year. >> So he's going to see the Boozer twins play. That should be fun. >> Boozer. The one.
>> Yeah. It's Kaden or Cameron one is like a little bit better. I forgot which >> the bigger one. >> The one that's not the point guard. >> He had uh So last night he had 15 and 13. Yeah, >> against Tennessee like a practice game. He had 23 rebounds and 24 points.
>> Well, the dad was really good. >> Yeah, he was. He was after my time. I went there, too. >> Oh, did you? >> Yeah. I missed I missed all the great teams. >> Did you go there before? You didn't go there before? >> I got Harley was a senior when I was a freshman. >> Oh, really? Okay.
>> So, they just won two. They went to the finals. So you still >> Yeah, his my Yeah. So his >> but that was Virginia. >> Yeah. Was that when they played was that
>> you went to Maryland? >> They were good back then. >> Yeah. We left the ACC by Joe Smith or franchise. >> Well, they won when they had what's his name? Juan Dixon. That was like in 2002. >> They only won it.
>> Oh, yeah. They won. >> Yeah. Not when you were in college. >> I remember when they had Lias. >> That was it. That was >> No, I'm talking about Jim McMillan and like two big centers [Music]
and that was Lefty Brazil. I think just >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's like that's like But Len >> Bas Len Bias was going to be the take Larry Bird spot. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> There was another guy. There were two center I think Len Elmore I think was
the name. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. They had the two big guys. Merlin then had a guy who played tennis. He was like their point guard. >> I know it was good. Steve Blake remember.
But you're right. When you after Grinhill had left then they had like the Wjahaskki years and they weren't that good when Wjask was there. >> Cherokee Parks. >> Yeah. >> And then >> Tang Tangon. >> He was there.
>> He was good. No, they were good. Langdon was like, >> they were awesome after I left 97. Well, that's when they got like Elton Brand and like Jay Williams and like >> William Avery
>> Mcetti. >> They only won it once. >> Jason Williams. >> Jason Williams would have been a Hall of Fame player if he didn't get >> He was an unbelievable talent. >> He was a real and he's done well for
himself as a broadcaster, but >> No, he was all >> He was from Jersey. He was from >> Plane View. Yeah, >> last year's team was really good. That sucked. >> You know who was like a bust? What's his name? The guy that went to the Sixers.
>> Um, >> were you This is more recent. I forgot. Not not Jabari Park. He was a bust, too. But the the other guy that went to the Sixers, the Okafur Jalapor, he was such a good college player. >> But now it's like the good college
players on you can't associate them because they're one year like >> the guys that play. >> Oh, not not less than. >> No, no, no. Like I remember I was like
coming back every year and they had it early and we had a great >> Yeah, I did that. >> The Big East was a lot of fun to watch. >> Big East and the EC 30 how fun of a time that was to watch. >> Yeah.
long time ago was big five school >> that temple can't Friday was a great day. But guess >> you grew up in this area? >> I grew up in
February. I'm getting >> moved out here. I should do this executive session after the application. >> Which application that are you here for ours? >> Basically what's going on close execut
was what like a year almost of those applications. I only came to I don't know what three or three or four >> started in December 15. >> What is it for? A synagogue. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You objected to a synagogue. >> I'm going to burn in hell anyhow. So I
mean >> we all did. Yeah. We were here till like 1:30 in the morning last hearing. >> Oh my gosh. >> But all I did was point out how deficient their storm water analysis was. >> Okay. >> Their engineer made it very easy for me to >> Who is there?
>> E2pm. small. I remember they put one right in the neighborhood. >> Well, this was on the corner. It was going to be on the corner of Parsonage Hill Road in Old Jord. >> Who was your traffic? >> I don't I didn't review the traffic.
>> I mean, I did, but not really. >> There wasn't. >> Oh, it was you guys. >> Oh, really? But it really focused on the storm learner which was just terrible. >> I mean to put it bluntly
>> we wrote a seven p two seven page review memos about what was deficient. >> I give you credit though. You submit the board. >> Yeah, >> which is why I'm sitting here. I got objected to getting objected to right now >> and self storage
I've ever had. the board the object >> don't tell me they're objecting to the traffic. >> Yes. >> And and also the objective experts don't provide reports before the meetings and I have to >> I know they're not subject to the same
table but it's ridiculous. >> They come with exhibits >> yet I have to have all my stuff. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. Oh no. We we submitted everything in advance. Um >> you have
six people shouldn't have to try not to do [Music] Oh, they the um resolution made in >> German and they're here. Why don't you take them before, you know, like 45 minutes
General 16 remember [Music] when you [Music] It's okay.
>> For me, it's easy. here. Thank you. Yes, it's real to me. >> Actually, I don't I go there all the time. This is what people
huge $3 [Music] last night. the local council people got smoked which is >> kind of disturbing because they did a really good job
>> really lost by two >> 13 I thought he would lose by >> here back >> so I just think it's whoever is in charge loses like you know and Cheryl was able has to say she's
one thing. >> How long did they >> That's what it was the last time. >> I know it was it was >> what was it? Half an hour 40 minutes last time for the exact session. like if he had run this
>> I think they came back a little after >> I know I take my wife back >> we had >> two applications attorney >> we had the country club >> she's just crazy about >> kind of what like what you're doing it
was it's an existing building on Milburn Avenue >> that it's a change of tenency the guy's doing a fitness >> I'm talking about it's a trend the SLC drive. And I don't didn't really care. I'm a fan.
It was, you know, I I always, >> you know, like I think in some sports like I think the football coach matters a lot >> and then the rest manager that's not important that guy >> you said I live in
the township. I'm over by the building >> across I'm across the street from golf >> street between farmstead and >> okay well I'm on Lawrence road too I
have I have the horse one >> not not up by Farmstead I when you come from the municipal building you come like a quarter mile down it's the white ranch >> so I I live at 33 so from across the street from >> Oh I live at
I wouldn't be able to shoot on the weekend. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What a small world. >> This is crazy. >> Eric Kelly. >> Nice to meet you, neighbor. >> Nate, nice to meet you, too.
>> You're the guys that make my horses jump. >> Oh, yeah. Apologies. >> You're the guy whose smell every once in a while the wind comes the right way. >> No, no. Horse horse worse minorities not smell you tell the town
>> you leave me alone pretty much. >> Oh yeah. >> I still know what I >> What's your name? I'm sorry. Evan Blake. >> Oh okay. Yeah. >> Done never comes with less than five people. I have four.
[Music] We just group you. >> No, I see two all the time. >> Two. >> It also depends on the location. It's more than ever. >> That's true. And then then you have to ask is is everyone who's here from
Stonefield under 35? >> Is everyone here from Stonefield under 30? >> Is everyone here for 20? >> Yeah. You guys support ridiculous thinking
develop >> you ever resident. >> He was object. >> We didn't really object though. He was in litigation a chopper. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was always a pain, right? >> Yeah. >> So,
>> basically drilling a hole in the wall. I got involved because his first attorney was the municipal attorney is the municipal attorney for West Orange. >> Yeah. >> At the time I was board. >> So I felt kind of obligated. The thing is,
>> dude, I wouldn't, >> you know, take on you. >> And then he Well, he got fired and I got bounced from West. >> I'm the board engineer. >> So, you're the one we're making to
>> No. To them. I don't vote. I just give them my advice, >> which is all in my letter and everything is pretty clean. >> You don't have any storm water that I can pick on.
>> You know, I mean, Milburn's really good about putting all the documents on their website so you can go in and see. And when you look at the high center, I mean it it's like 30 something document. It's ridiculous. >> Every every meeting you came to was a
different revised application. Yeah. You were going crazy. You go out playing. They just get it. >> Yeah. You know, and it's like I would just end up going to the to the website and downloading it because, you know, they never sent it. They even though
they asked to have it sent to the objectors council, they didn't. So, we would just download it off the website. Um, but you're right, Jason. I don't like doing
that kind of work, but I get kind of arm twisted into it. >> You know how that goes. most recent precipit 111 votes out of almost 19,000. >> That's a big turnout. >> I'm surprised. I thought that uh once he
won the primary that he would would wouldn't have that kind of a challenge. Oh crap, he lost the council though. His two running mates lost. the whole council in the summer.
>> Did it still have a Republican but one of them was a good friend. She did a great job. [Music] >> What's that? >> She lost like a hundred votes. I'd say like 5,000 people in her district or her
ward. So it was really close. But no, they didn't win by a lot in 23. So it was and when they did it was like it's usually Democrat so it's a big surprise. >> Yeah. Peripany flip-flops back and
forth. They traditionally had Republican council and a Democratic mayor. Um, and then it flipped and now it's flipped back except they they have a Republican mayor and a a Democrat
majority um council. >> Big thing in here um like 2000 vote difference. We're going to have a charter commission because we had to update our form of government. We're still governed like the 1890s.
We really have to become a Faulner act. And >> is it a Faulner act? >> We're not a Faulner act. So there's certain rights we don't have. Um into question whether to go to nonpartisan or maybe have someone has like wards. We don't have it. You know, some like consideration. >> Yeah. You're a counselor committee. It's
you just elect >> at large >> and and then they pick a mayor. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How did this town handles all housing that's gone up? The school was already mob when I was here. >> I mean, the one they built by Canber
that's Milburn. I know some of this is Springfield, but what happened here? They the made a settlement in on July 30th, 25 minutes notice, 45 minutes notice a
settlement. I'm the only one that goes to the meeting. I said, "How can I know the terms before you approve?" No. So, that was woke up. You have to that they're putting the cell not telling anyone where they're putting the house where the home one they say we're
putting on our recycling center and the other one is like we had homes immediate like years go our we're fully developed community we we have done it because of what they did at the update and a few
others and these other two projects one right next to the reservoir they're bonus projects and the dump and they telling everyone like why are we buying a lawsuit? >> Well, they and they sell them as low income housing too, right? Right.
>> The dump one is the dump one is 100% 75 units of affordable housing. >> It's 100% affordable. >> Is it actual affordable? >> Most of them are like 10 units and then the rest. >> The question is they're going to be coming here some. They haven't come to the planning board yet. Then you have
the one, you know, next to the reservoir where they carved out, >> right? >> You know, and I saying, can we know the terms? You know, what are we doing? >> I just don't know where the kids go. Like, is the schools are you? >> That's the one thing with the whole
affordable housing thing is, you know, the courts mandated it. Then the legislature adopted rules and fair share said you know do a plan and they laid out a schedule >> but >> you know and and and just said well here's your number
>> and then you would fight that because we're municipal engineers up in Stanho >> and you know it was like >> we don't have any land what land we do have >> this the D took away our sewer service area we can't put sewers we talking
about >> so it's Where are we going to put it? >> But isn't the affordable housing in Iraq? Most of it's not affordable housing. Like some tried to excuse me. >> You have to inclusionary housing. It's not >> which has an affordable component, but
it's inclusionary housing. >> So they get private developers who we all work for, >> right? >> Um to build it and they have to set aside >> 15 to 20%. Well, now it's 20%. Under the
fourth round, you have to set aside 20%. Unless you're like West Windsor, like Jason knows, is 25%. Affordable housing. So um so it's to get say if your obligation in a town is 200
affordable housing units you have to build a thousand to get and unless you find >> no one's going to do >> somebody's going to do 100% affordable and there are but most of those projects are no more than 20 30 units generally
here. It just always strikes me as bananas. Something that doesn't really help affordable housing. >> Well, it does because at least it gets built. >> Yeah, but not much of it is actually.
>> Well, no. 80% of his mortgage. I know >> no one really also did a vacancy where he projects all the project. >> Yeah, it's on the board like >> Yeah, that looks really affordable.
>> How many units are of that project? How many are projects that are building they built here in front of the fire station? You know, how many units? It's like a 30 building. >> Well, they fill up pretty quick. I mean, at least you know >> affordable. But I'm saying not
affordable. People saying I spend >> six7,000 a month rent. >> What people are doing is saying, "Well, >> or or do I want to pay $30,000 a year in property taxes, which comes out to what?
we'll make it 36,000 $3,000 a month just in property taxes >> that's buried into your rent. >> So I mean you know you have a big home on a in a lot of Essex County and you're paying a lot of money in
>> taxes. Oh I know. >> So but uh >> I spoke to her that's She said she was talking about >> the way it it's it's been you know >> I know it's just >> but I'm not going to disparage all these guys because half of our business is
multifamily I'm just saying acting like this is all about creating affordable housing >> what gets me is if there wasn't a market for housing I mean New Jersey
has a lack of housing, period. Not just affordable housing, any kind of housing because you build this stuff and they're full. >> I mean, my office is in Paripony. They tore down two office buildings, >> one next to me and one across the way
and they built >> I think it's 400 and something total apartments, >> two avaling them up. >> Um, and now they're they're tearing down office buildings and building warehouses. >> Well, that's it. You see that when you
go way up past >> I'm by the by the hill >> under tent >> past you see >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then they have something on the other side. Massive project you know.
>> Yeah. I used to work in Lannex right off Port Symphony Road >> Route 8287. There were 10 office buildings in there. I think there's three left. They tore all of them down which were built in the 70s.
>> Um, and built million-dollar town homes and I forget I think it was like 500 apartments >> and they still have another building to go. >> Who was the older guy?
I'm think >> I mean the only >> the older guy besides me >> is was Stan. >> No, there was a guy there. >> He wasn't an older guy. I mean I I had Frank >> Russo, >> Jim Woods,
>> I don't remember. >> I don't remember when I was at Gibbons. I never had a job before. >> Was it was not That's because he said,
>> "Oh, he still works for me." >> He's still part time. He's Well, he's older than me. >> If I If I knew his license number, I'll give you an idea. His
license I know is ins I know all these guys are looking, you know, they're in the 50s. I don't know if they below 30. Yeah, I mean actually Dr. Se
like to make a motion to reopen the public session. Do I have a second? One second. All in favor? All opposed? Passes unanimously. Please have a roll call.
>> Cory Biller >> here. Allison Canfield >> here. >> Michael Cohen >> here. >> Deborah Nevice here. Frank Sakamandi >> here. >> Michael Zion >> here. >> Jonathan Baxter >> here. >> Sergey STO >> here. >> DJ. Gaston Harder
>> here. >> Thank you everybody for your patience. Next up on the agenda is the application 25004 Newton 2 LLC 800 mold turnpike block 1904 lot 105 for minor site plan
improvement with change in use the representation for uh the >> Yes. Uh good evening Mr. Chairman members of the board Jason Sudal attorney for the applicant. Sorry if I sound a little under the weather. Um so this is an application for block 1904
lot 5. 800 Morris Ferm Pike. As the chairman indicated, it's a change of use which triggers a minor site plan or site plan approval as part of the application. There's no site improvements being done. This is just an interior fit out. So essentially what the project is, there's an existing Club
Pilates within the retail shopping center that's located at the property. Luckily for them, they're doing well and they're they have weight lists at their current facility for classes. And also lucky for them, the um lash studio next door went out of business or closed down
um a little while ago. So the goal of the project is to take that old space that was an eyelash studio, combine it with the existing space to have one club Pilates facility. So the existing club Pilates will just expand into the existing space. The existing space is
approximately 1500 or,400 um or excuse me, the new spaces are probably 1,400 square ft. None of the hours of operation are going to change. So the way it operates today in terms of hours will be the same. Currently, right now, they can fit 12 customers at once or 12
people exercising there at once. When they open up the uh additional space, it'll be an additional 12. They'll be able to stagger the two classes. They'll have, you know, two classes occurring at once. They'll stagger them 15 minutes apart so people aren't coming at one time. So it'll essentially operate the
same with just another space um right next to it. Um the application's fully conforming. There's no variances associated um with the project. We did get um review letters from your police, fire um engineer planner. We take no issues with any of the comments in those
letters. I think the police department had no issue. The fire department was more of a code compliance which we would have to um anyway. Um and then we have no issue obviously with Mr. Keller um or with its apology letter um as well.
Um, one question that did come up and I can address it now. Because there was another tenant in that space, the last studio, there was another sign for that business. There's no proposal to add any more signage. So, the Club Pilates has an existing sign. The last studio will come off. They'll just paint over that
and there'll just be one sign at the at the facility. Um, so I just have one witness that I plan on calling, our site engineer, Michaela Magguire from Stonefield Engineering and Design. She'll walk through um the site plan, which is really just the interior fit out. Um she'll go through the
operations. I do have other people from the private team here in case there are questions. Um but with that, if there's any questions for me, I'd be happy to call my first witness. Before we do, Mr. Chairman, if I may, I did have an speaking to the mic. That's not the the
uh I did have an opportunity to review the notice. I found the content to be sufficient. I found it to be timely served and published uh certified mail and published on October 24th both at least 10 days prior to this evening. Uh so from a jurisdictional standpoint it
certainly appears that the notice was sufficient to provide the board with jurisdiction to hear and decide the application this evening and with your permission Mr. Chairman I could swear in the one w one anticipated witness as well as our two board professionals. If
all three of you will raise your right hand, do all of you swear to God or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Yes, I do. >> Thank you all. Back to you, Mr. Chair. >> If I could qualify, Miss Magguire, for
the record, please. Michaela, if you could just give the board the benefit of your educational background, licenses, held, and experience testifying before planning and zoning boards in the state of New Jersey. >> Yes. So my name is Michael Magguire. Last name spelled M A G U I R E. I'm a
project manager at Sfield Engineering and Design located at Creek Park Avenue, New Jersey. I'm a licensed professional in the state of New Jersey. My license is in good standing. Professional engineer in the state of New Jersey licenses in good standing. I received my bachelor of science degree from the University of Delaware in civil
engineering. I have about eight years of experience in land use development institute of New Jersey. I've been accepted as an expert about 30 times across the state. >> Would the board accept Miss McGuire? >> Yes. You're uh testifying as a engineer. Civil engineer. >> Yes. Correct.
>> Okay. Thank you. Yes, you are acceptable to the board as a civil engineer. >> All right, Michael. Why don't we start with existing condition just orient the board to the site and where the propertyy's located then we can go into the change of use proposal. >> Okay. Is this a good spot for this?
So I guess Steve will mark this as A1. A1 you can identify. It's colorized. So >> yeah, >> correct. So this is an aerial exhibit prepared by our office. It's dated November 4th, 2025. I marked it as a
>> and was it superimposed or colorized from one of the site plan sheets? It's from an aerial from Google Earth. >> Google. Oh, but we didn't have an aerial. That's right. We didn't have an aerial. Okay.
>> Uh, so as mentioned, the site is located at block 1904, lot 4 and 105. The address is 800 Morris Turnpike. The lot's about 12.9 acres, and it's located in a split zone. So, the front half of the site is located within the highway business, the B2A zone, and then the
rear is located in a residential zone, the R six zone. The site's located at the plaza at Short Hills. Um to the rear of the site is mostly a residential single family homes. It's located within that arctic zone. To the east um is a
mixture of commercial and residential. To the west is a mixture of office and commercial. And then to the south uh which is um the township of Summit is again mostly commercial uses. Currently on site there are three
existing buildings. Um, the total building coverage on site I do want to clarify is 93,295 square ft. There was a note that there was a discrepancy between the survey and the traffic report. So, I do want to clarify that that is the correct square footage. There are three buildings that
make that up. There's currently a grocery store to the west side of the property that's about 60,000 square feet. There's a Chase Bank in the center um that's about 3,000 square feet. And then there's a retail strip to the east side um that has about 12 different
tenants in it and that's about 30,000 square feet. All the existing buildings on site are proposed to remain um and the vehicular access point is from the DOT road uh which is Norris Turnpike. Again, all that is proposed to remain as part of this application.
I'm going to bring up the submitted change of use plan. >> So this was submitted to the board. Do you want us to mark it or just >> You don't have to. It was submitted more than 10 days in advance and it hasn't been colorized or changed. Correct. >> Correct. >> Just identify the sheet against >> Yep. It's sheet 101 on the change of
move plan and it's dated July 17. >> So when you look at the um retail strip that I was mentioning before that has 12 tenants about in the center of that there are two patched out um tenants that we're showing. One is the existing 1400 foot pilates. Um the one to the
right or east is the existing amazing lash studio. That's also 1,400 square f feet. As mentioned, Club Pilates is proposing to renovate that 1,400 square ft um area. So the new total Club Pilates square footage is going to be
2800 square ft. Sorry, I'm keep rotating, but I'm going to flip now to the um interior proposed renovation since that is the majority of the work that we are proposing on site. >> So, we'll mark this as A2. >> Correct.
>> Just identify for the >> Yep. And this is the proposed interior fit out of the existing Amazing L studio that is shown on the right side or the east side. So in the front, the applicant is pro proposing to remove the existing door
that used to go into the amazing life studio. There will only be one main entrance and that is going to remain where it is in the existing condition as mentioned. That's why the existing sign is going to remain over that main entrance and the applicant is just going to remove the sign over the where the
amazing studio was. The applicant is proposing to remove a portion of the wall along the front. So the lobby will extend across the entire frontage and then as you move to the back, the applicant is essentially proposing to mirror the existing studio within this
new area. So the existing studio has 12 stations. So it's a max of 12 people per class. They are going to match that within this new location. So um they could have two classes going on at once and again that will be 12 um 12 people
per class at a maximum. In the rear, the bathrooms are proposed to remain um in the same locations. The storage is proposed to remain. Both the egress doors in the rear are will also remain in the same locations. The only change is the applicant is proposing to move um
the personal training room into this new fit out just to have more room in a bigger area. As mentioned, the max class size for this studio is 12 people. Um, so under existing conditions, the total amount of people that would be within the studio
would be 16 people. So if you have 12 people taking a class, you would have one instructor. And then if there was someone taking a private training class in the rear, um, you would have another um, person taking the class and instructor. And then if there was someone sitting at the front desk at a
maximum peak hour, you would have 16 people. With this additional studio, we would be adding 13 people. Um, so we'd be adding another class of 12 people plus one more instructor for a total of 29 people. Again, the addition that this
would bring is a total of 13 people. >> And all the classes are you have to sign up in advance. Correct. >> Correct. You have to sign up um in advance online for these classes. So, you don't just show up um and hope there's, you know, a spot. The class length is 50 minutes um per
class. Usually, they leave about a 10-minute buffer. Um, so on weekdays classes start at either 6:30 a.m. or 7:30 a.m. Um, and they essentially run every hour and then up until about 8:30 p.m. On weekends the classes start about
7:30 a.m. and run to about 1:30. Um, with this new studio, they may stagger the classes, you know, every half hour or so. no change to the proposed deliveries um or trash operations or any of the operations on site um since everything's going to still you know run out of this
existing quality studio. Moving um back to the change of use plan. I just want to touch on some of the exterior improvements. As I mentioned um the only exterior improvement is the removal of
that sign. Everything else is proposed to remain the same. So there's no change to the proposed lot area, lot coverage, building coverage, building setbacks. Um all the buildings and parking is supposed to remain the same. We did
review the parking demand since we are changing the use of the studio. The existing amazing lash studio um required seven parking spaces. This new club lobbies will require 14 parking spaces. So that means the parking
requirement itself is going up a total of seven spaces. The total required parking for this entire development is 570 and the existing parking spaces on site is 692. So right now the site even with this
additional seven space requirement is 122 spaces overparked. In addition to that, we did do parking counts on site to confirm that the site did have the capacity for this additional seven spaces. We originally um counted the entire property on a
weekday and a week end, we did find that at the max or peak hour where most cars are parked on the lot, there are still 65% of the parking spaces are open. So, there is capacity. And then coming out of the um TRC meeting we had, we did count the parking spaces specifically
right in front of this retail strip. So, this somewhat triangular portion, there are 206 parking spaces within that area. And we counted on a Thursday between about 8:30 um a.m. to 2:45 and added a maximum there was 60 cars parked
um which was about 29% um of the parking spaces full. So, about 70% of the parking spaces open. >> So, there was 60 parked out of 200 how many? >> 206. >> 206. >> Correct. Thank you. With that being said, we get did get a
chance to review the um engineering review letter, the fire review letter, and the planning review letter. Um there was no comments we we cannot comply with. >> And the police department had no concerns. Correct. >> Correct. >> Um so just to wrap up, there's no
variance relief and based on the parking studies that we done that we did, the parking requirement is still met. >> Correct. >> And in fact, we're well over parked. >> Okay. and just to be um felt in suspenders. We we studied in the front of the exact Pilates studio as Mr.
Keller had requested and we found that there was more than enough capacity right in front. Okay. And we studied it during the peak hours of the club to be sure it coincided with the business. Okay. >> That's all I have. Mr.
>> There any questions for the board? >> You say peak hours in the morning. >> Uh yeah, there were Yeah, there were two peak hours. I believe it was from um 8:30 to 9:30 like right right after people dropped their kids off from school and then during the lunch time we studied the whole the whole day. Sorry.
>> Just a clarification. You had mentioned there was only the sign on the exterior but did I hear you say you were going to remove the door from the other property? >> Yes. >> Yeah. So that just there's one entrance for computing. >> Got it. I just wanted to clarification.
Thank you >> on that. Everything is okay with prime marshall on that one. >> Yeah, all those were code requirements that we would have to comply with. No issue there. >> Okay. >> All right. Thanks. Have a question on refuge generation. Don't expect any more refuge generation
with the addition of working people. >> No. And with this use, it's a it's a pretty low generator. Usually one to two bags um you know a week. >> Okay. And no activities out on the back side of the of the building. Only for refues.
>> Only for refu >> there. Just a question. There were bathrooms in both stores and you're keeping both sets of bathrooms. >> Okay. >> Uh either of our professionals have any comments or questions? >> Just have one question I didn't catch. What time does the Pilates studio open
on the weekdays? >> Weekdays it's either 6:30 or 7:30. Some of the mornings have 6:30 class and some just start at 7:30. >> That's all I have. >> No, we were just limited to signing details and clarifying.
>> Okay. Thank you very much for your testimony. >> Sorry. Questions from the public. Are there any questions from the public? >> Thank you very much for your testimony. >> Thank you. >> That's all I have.
get off public comment and then what I would imagine is appreciation. >> Are there any uh comments from the public? >> You have a the application fully conforms. We work to make sure we address the PRC and the board of
professional comments. So I I'd ask the board to approve the application as proposed with any of the conditions being meeting any comments in the letters that uh the summation similar to what Mike teing it up would be. It's site plan for
conversion of use uh moving into the addition is vacant uh fully conforming as confirmed by our plan and uh all set forth in the various reports.
I move to approve second roll call. Yes. Can we have a roll call vote please? >> Cory Biller. >> Yes. >> Allison Canfield. Yes, Michael Pen. >> Yes, >> Deborah Neas. >> Yes, >> Frank Sakamandi. >> Yes, >> Michael Zion.
>> Yes, >> Serini VJ. >> Yes, >> Gaston Her. >> Yes. >> And Don, >> yes. >> Thank you everyone. Have a good night. This side. Sorry. All right. For our last order of
business this evening, we have Ordinance 2719-25 up for master plan consistency review. Um let's see. It's uh we have a discussion on proposed ordinance uh amending and supplementing the township of Milbourne development regulations and zoning
ordinance article five design performance standards BRZ 503 site building and public realm design standards. Mold can you walk us through this ordinance please? and grand promise I wouldn't speak.
>> Oh. >> Um, good evening and um, thanks for having me back. Um, so before you is an ordinance and I'm sure this board is well aware of the process where when the governing body introduces an ordinance that impacts your you call it the DRC, a
land development ordinance. Um, this body pairs it for master plan consistency. Um what this ordinance does is it makes development um more walkable, attractive, and sustainable. It um it's an ordinance that creates a public realm
section to your your DRC, specifically a brand new 503 site building public realm design standards. Our office did distribute a memo. I just want to confirm you guys have it. Um, and what this does is the direct
response to several pages within the uh, master plan, different objectives. I'm happy to go through them all. Um but I what was the first memorandum and the exact page numbers but essentially you have a um series of recommendations
around mixed development maintaining a pedestrian circulation um certain parking in the central business district um etc. Just um things to improve the ordinance. It's not uncommon to reproach the ordinance from time to time as a response to your
master plan. So, um, our office, uh, reviewed it. Um, I can answer specific questions, but, um, we recommend that this board find it consistent and then the next step would go to council, >> what I assume is secondary
>> and public hearing. in public >> do you I don't know whether you can answer this or just the TC members this just when it's a comprehensive change like like an addition is this benchmark like who who drafted the the insertion
of this 503 I believe it was a a committee >> yeah did the main drafting of it and maybe reviews it examining Exactly.
>> Any comments? Maybe. >> Yeah, I have. Um, so there's one section. It's um section >> section for specific building design standards and it was
um it was spectum C 4 to D under non-residential windows. Um it says um that there can be stained
glass only for transom and accent windows. And my question though is whether this would apply to religious institutions which sometimes have stained glass windows and what how accent windows were
being defined and whether if a religious institution wanted to add stained glass how that would be impacted by this. >> So this section lives under a header that says non-residential mixeduse and
multif family buildings. So it would be my impression that this is not a applicable to house. >> It I'm sorry it's under let me find that one. >> So on the um ordinance itself the 11 page ordinance
>> and it's C4 >> stain translucent decorative glass may only be used for so that's like a number three >> isn't it non-residential? Yeah, but it's under if it's under non-residential, a house of worship would be
>> Oh, I'm sorry. I you know I got my head res. >> Okay, no problem. >> Thanks for correcting me there. >> The the uh >> it says >> Yeah. Okay. >> Stained translucent or decorative glass may only be used for accents.
>> So, it might have to be reviewed under design consideration. >> Okay. So is that something that we ask the township committee or >> the uh as what the board can do in conjunction with its determination on consistency with the master plan uh can
make recommendations to the governing body. Uh if there is the board's pleasure I could modify the resolution that we have that simply says it's not inconsistent but we leave a little space. Uh if there's any recommendations
actually much if you want uh and uh um if the board so desires they can make a recommendation uh for the governing body to consider accepting either houses of worship or it may be uh that since we generally uh
consider houses of worship together with schools and other public assembly uses if I recall correctly generally that's what is done the board may wish to make the recommendation that houses of worship, schools and other public
assembly uses also be uh considered for exception from that or modification to that requirement if that's the desire of the board. Um and again when I lump together schools and assembly uses with
houses of worship the general uh philosophy there is to ensure that houses of worship are treated the same as those other assembly uses. Whereas here arguably if houses of worship were the only ones accepted from that
requirement houses of worship would be treated at least the same if not better than those other uses. So I leave it to the board and I hope I didn't complicate it too much,
>> but I think it's a good patch and I believe Graham did as well. >> So whatever the board decides to do is via recommendation or not in that regard. And if anybody has been on the boards long enough, they should have seen a lot
of these topics have already come up with other applications and Graham pulled in all of those and also looked in surrounding uh cities to see what they were doing. So it's not only what our experience is but also what the
experience other townships put into it. >> And I agree with what was I do. Let me just >> I'd like to make a motion. I I can't possibly repeat it. >> That's what you're not alone. I can't I
>> Right. In fact, what you can do maybe consider an exemption. >> Are there any other comments before? >> I I have some comments. Okay. Specific ones. Do you want to go through them first before we get Okay. So, mine's just little things, but um so this is section B.
or three. In addition to long-term bicycle storage, multi family buildings shall provide common area storage rooms for oversized personal mobility equipment such as strollers, cargo, bike, ports, scoot, scooters. The size of such common
storage, we know this in 15 square ft per 10 dwelling units. That's pretty small. That's 5 by3 that you'll fit one stroller into such a ring. So all of those should be in singular stroller, cargo, bike, walker or
scooter, but not at the same time. Just saying that's very small. So 15 square feet is that if that's what we want, that's fine. But my recommendation would it's actually going to serve the purpose of storing more than one of those things above a stroller will take up 5x3
double or single stroll like 6x6. I have twins. >> So, I'm just suggesting that maybe you want to increase that. >> I think I think you should check on it. >> Yeah. I'll just clarify whether that's exactly what we want because it's a tiny ramp. 15 square feet, >> right? 3x five.
>> 3x5. Stroller is about what? Two and a half feet. >> Two feet wide collateral. >> Oh, if you want to stack it up like that. Okay, let's pick one of the other ones. Cargo bikes, walkers, scooters. that that is the 15 square feet is a
minimum but you're suggesting you may want the minimum to be greater. I want the minimum to be greater because I think 15 wouldn't be function. Guess that's what I'm >> that's all I don't want we don't have to argue great detail just make it bigger the minimum
I also had a question on C 3 A5 what is EFS >> uh EIS it's basically like fake architecture um It's clearly something we don't want, but I didn't know what >> like some towns really have to prohibit
it otherwise you might get a lost life plans for people out. >> Okay. >> It's basically like drywall for the outdoors. It's exterior facing installation. >> Okay. But that's a common term so we don't need to spell it out. People know what it is basically. >> Okay.
Um and now four specific building design standards under that. So that's C 4 C1. Windows and transparency. This comes up in many places, but it just the wording I didn't fully understand. Streetf
facing facade shall have at least 25% transparent glazing on the first floor. Given the context, I assume that means 25% of the area. >> Trying to hit the buzz word. >> Sorry for 4C1.
>> I see it on D1. You're saying it comes up several times though. >> Oh, C1 is the third time I saw it. So, it's like >> So, it's in two spots then. >> It's in like four or five spots actually. So, C building and design standard C section four specific
building design standards section one sorry patch joints to town houses >> C windows and transparency >> part one. >> So, the question is >> what does that 25% refer to? Was that the area coverage of the transparent
>> like on the first my rate is at the first level 25% of I guess what would be that story maybe >> has to heavily supporter glass and that's to kind of activate and look inside and not >> okay right there's another alternative that's what I thought it meant but it
also could be different is the glass has to be at least 25% transparent >> oh shading of glass >> like can't have totally tinted windows >> that's the thing with zoning saying you'll always find that they'll bend the words like >> well the way you interpret it
>> but that's okay if it's a term if it's a term of art we can leave it that was more of a clarification >> you don't want to say 25% of the area of the facade >> yeah I think if that >> I think to spell it out might be good because otherwise not clear what the 25% >> future gray area not
>> and then flip over um so same section four specific building design standards to non-residential mixed A floor heights part two says upper floor to floor height shall support long-term adaptability for residential office uses. I'm not sure what long a
floor height that supports long-term adaptability for residential or office uses means. I'm guessing it's high enough that you could put a drop ceiling in. Is that the idea? >> So you could convert residential, but that I'm just guessing. >> Um
I don't know. I know there's something particularly regulatory about this exact language, but um like flex um I I tend to agree with what you mean. >> I don't know what it means.
>> No, that like a flex um you know, high ceilings I think is what we're going for here. >> Okay. This is very vague. Yeah. Yeah. That's my only comment there. I don't
um and then commercial park three I guess at the same section no part four conditional uses in residential zones a massing of scale part one
part building shall reflect the general scale of a nearby single family homes using pitched roofs, articulated entries and windows at pedestrian scale. So my question is about pitched roofs because we now have quite a few homes being built that don't have pitch. So that would not reflect the general scale of
nearby single family homes. They all happen to be the bottom lines that are getting put up. >> Well, we get this in place before any of those place in that area will still be. We could start with pitch roots rather than
saying it has to reflect otherwise it's like you're saying what necessarily maybe adding for example instead of that it has to have it you have any comments on this? Yeah, I was just looking at that now that he mentioned it kind of
shall we would it be better if we just said we mandate >> I think I think in here somewhere it says flat moves are permitted >> do we necessarily want to if the market if the market wants different
architecture do we want to and and seemingly people are doing it and the prices are our god. >> I also think there's a lot of people that are in these neighborhoods where comes in not happy about it.
>> But this isn't going to change that. This is just additional uses. So this is just saying if you're in them I'm I'm really hypothetical because I don't think we have enough density in these flat roofs yet triggered but some point we may do and then it'll be like
the scale of nearby single family homes will suggest a flat route a pitch for it's not that important. Um the other thing I wanted to mention here was oh what does windows at pedestrian scale mean? So it says articulated entries and windows at
pedestrian scale. Does that mean low to the ground or Okay. Well, I mean I'm the last person you should ask the attorney. >> No, but you that's how I understood it. >> Yeah. I mean the name of the ordinance is like public realm. So I think it's
referring to your experience on the street. >> So the window not too big. Is that the idea? Or is there a way to say that people would understand? Yeah, that would be better. >> Compance is better when people
understand. >> Same thing with enforcement >> because there's various point also we talk about sight lighting later at pedestrian scale. Again, what does that mean at pedestrian scale? It'd be good to clarify that with the recommendation that they review the language of
pedestrian scale. >> Yeah. provider definition to put that at the uh >> I mean for lighting pedestrian scale means that you have like 8 to 12t poles as opposed to 20 plus foot. >> So it has a definition by engineers.
Okay. >> Is it hard and fast? No. But it it's it goes to the theme of a streetscape. I I don't I'm an engineer. I don't deal with buildings. I don't know what it means when a window is a pedestrian.
>> Yeah. >> Probably. It makes sense though. Not floor to ceiling glass wall. You know what I mean? That's probably >> the intention to say that or >> it should because that wasn't clear to me at all what it actually meant. I'm not just being like picky. I honestly
didn't know what it meant. >> And signage too at pedestrian scale later. Sight lighting at pedestrian scale. And then section and H parking parking should be located behind the building. Does that also require to form a lot where there's technically no
behind the building? >> Repeat that one again so I can follow up. >> Oh, sorry. It's conditional uses in residential zones again. Part H parking says parking shall be located behind the building behind the building. >> But if it's a corner lot, there's
technically no behind the building, isn't it? >> Might have to read your definition of a side rear lock. Um I think the intent is to not have front yardage. >> I I that that is the intent. >> Yeah. I think it be possible to comply
with this quite rush. D public realm streetscape standards part three part one street furniture. >> Mhm. Street furniture such as benches, waste, receptacles, and bike racks should shall be provided every 75 ft of
building frontage. So, does that mean one of each of those? And it says such as, so it doesn't really mean that, but it doesn't actually specify anything really there. Maybe just any one of those has to be every 75 ft. >> Yeah, it's a list of examples and it's
um intended to give a metric to your frontage of your width. So let's say you have like a 100 foot wide lot. Um I guess a bench or take your pick one of these. >> Okay. So it really just means pick a
bike rack or one of those every >> such as benches. >> Okay. Just checking that was mine. >> That's it. Can we change the order of how we do this? I feel like these ordinances should come here first before they go up
for first week because what'll happen is we'll make the recommendations here. It'll go back to the township town committee must adopt those recommendations. Then they have to renotice and then it's dragged out another several meetings. Now, I assume because this went through the zoning
codeation subcommittee that some members of this board saw this and can't catch everything, but seems like there's a number of things in here that are probably need clarification. So, I don't
know if there's we can do body make this more efficient so that planning workers use these things before they go to first. I don't think they do that. Yeah, the governing body uh uh introduces and on second reads and in
between must give the planning board an opportunity on referral to weigh in on the master plan consistency. However, the governing body does not have to be the body that starts the drafting process. So if the governing body so
desires uh the governing body can ask the planning board to take the first crack at the limits. Um or the planning board frankly can make recommendations to a governor by put together an ordinance uh and say hey we think this
is a good ordinance why don't you know why don't you introduce it. uh the genesis does not have to be from the governing body uh uh for the first draft. However, the three steps still have to take place. The governing body
must introduce the planning board must have at least the opportunity statuto time frame to weigh in on master plan consistency and then the governing body might must at least 10 days after the initial introduction
uh uh have the second reading public hearing and ultimately presumably the adoption of the order. >> So the governing board at the second reading make these really minor changes. Governing bodies can on second read make
uh do not have to delay if the changes are not substantive. >> Right? Because all of these are just like they just just for clarification purposes, right? >> The township attorney is in the position of advising whether changes and by the
way these are recommendations, >> right? >> Uh all of them could become changes. not become but but but uh the township attorney would weigh in on whether or not it requires restarting the process so to speak and having to reintroduce the ordinance if
the changes are of such a significant nature or not. So that's really the issue. If anything we say in here causes the process to restart or causes us to have to do a makeup bill later on to fix any of those things or the subcommittee
that uh or review committee that is involved in the process pre-introduction. Is the review committee involved pre-introduction? >> You could have membership of a certain body certain planning board members who are very comprehensive and diligent in
their analysis of the ordinance. That's another just saying just a word. We are we are very comprehensive and >> multiple multiple iterations. >> We do miss stuff and some we let go
>> because we're very particular. A lot of us >> I actually let something go there. >> We we we train like we we know we try to head off the problem so we don't get these. And yes, we know that two of our members are very
very particular about stuff. >> The perfect the perfect ordinance has not yet been drafted. >> I mean this draft probably went through us I mean five six times. >> The thing is is that when you start
putting too much language uh it then it starts to restrict things. So, we we we kind of teeter on what to put in, what not to put in. Um, I think what everyone brought up was definitely
more definition of what things are. Uh, maybe we could ask that this ordinance, the second read goes with the definition on some of these words. And that's minor enough that I think it doesn't need to start over. But that's that's really the
attorney's decision. You know, that's >> that's the issue. >> I mean, you know, as we said, we uh you know, we we're good at looking for and all other similar uses. That's a that's a red flag to us. We know from everything else to get rid of it. But, you know, like anything else and even at
our meetings, you know, you have uh six people looking at it, somebody's not there, they come, they look at it the next time and they have their set of changes and so so do you guys. So it sounds like perhaps there is a change in the workflow so that from the zoning
subcommittee it comes here so that people here who are not on the zoning code committee can put in their changes before it goes first read so we don't end up having to double >> we don't have to let that hold it up but I think in the future we have the zoning code examination subcommittee they come up with something that they're going to
send to the TC would simultaneously send it to the planning board and anyone that on the planning that, you know, reads their email, looks at it, have an opportunity to weigh in before it goes on the judge committee agenda. I think
that would streamline the process because this is like the second time this year where we've had something come through and we've wanted to make changes. They weren't necessarily substantial to delay the uh ordinance But it is
something that we had one we had one where they were considered substantive. So we passed it as is and then to go back. Right. >> Right. And that's that made it even longer before it took effect. So that's that's what we really want to avoid.
So that would do it. I mean before you know it should come to this group then before it goes the first treaty. I don't know if we have to codify that committee level or we have members of the planning board on that subcommittee
whether it can just be transmitted to the planning board. >> Can we make a recommendation planning board make recommendation to do that? >> I think we should just like >> Yeah. Yeah. It
So long as there is an or is not an ordinance that would be contradicted by that process and I doubt there is even if you you know you have a sub zoning it's called zoning >> um it probably I have to check the
ordinance it probably doesn't say thou shalt not give it to the planning board thou must give it to every year >> I don't I don't because some some committees that we have are done by resolution and they
have to be reintroduced every year. >> They're not standing. So, >> right, I don't know which one. But either way, we should probably make recommendation. So, TC >> to do it in that order whether it
requires an ordinance change or not. And I would imagine it's very unlikely that it would require volage. >> That's the recommendation we should probably make independent follow. >> Oh, this one.
Does do we with respect to this ordinance and this master plan consistency review is at the pleasure of the board to find that the ordinance is not inconsistent and to make some or all of the revisions that were proposed or
recommendations excuse me would it be all of them or someone if it's some which ones? >> All of them mine. Okay, good enough. We'll have to coordinate and make sure we have a
modified version of this resolution, but it will be you can vote on it for adoption. I will just have it reflect what you >> attorney have to decide, you know, whether it needs to be reintroduced or
whether it passes as is and then the changes are reintroduced. that may or may not have an impact on what the board how the board does what we do excuse me the governing body. So I think we have we have a motion and
a second. I'm picking your go right ahead. I'm waiting if one was coming and I'm waiting for >> just before we do that and if we if we if it is reintroduced and that that the one that's reintroduced with the changes that comes back to the planning board again >> has there always has to be the master of
the master plan review. It just got cir The ideal is to have it introduced very close to the way it's going to be adopted. >> Would anybody like a like to make a motion to find it not inconsistent >> and make all recommendations?
>> I move that is not inconsistent and that we make all the recommendations. Adopt the resolution according to I'll modify the >> and modify the resolution according to. >> We have a second. >> Roll call, please.
>> Cory Miller, >> yes. >> Allison Canfield, >> yes. >> Michael Cohen, >> yes. >> Deborah Nevice, >> yes. >> Frank Sakamandi, >> yes. >> Michael Zion, >> yes. >> BJ, >> yes. >> Gen Hopper, >> yes. >> Jonathan Baxter, >> yes.
>> All right. I can make a make that recommendation that things that come through the zoning code submittee when they're sent to the TC consideration may be simultaneously shared with the rest of the planning
board and that gives the planning board members time to weigh in. doesn't hold the process up but gives them an opportunity to weigh and find items that can then you know the TC can address it
only to the >> and I think that communication does not require resolution say it can be a memo be it from a planner or maybe combination of the above so that's the recommendation I
think a motion second and voice will do that. >> Motion is made. I'll second it and all in favor. >> All opposed. Motion pass. >> Okay. With that, do I have a motion to adjurnn?
>> Second. >> All in favor? Yeah, finally. >> You said that send