[Music] f good evening and welcome to the 22
meeting of the Milton planning board fiscal year 2025 um at this time I would like to Now call the meeting to order uh we will begin with our administrative items which include first the approval of minutes and oh first we're going to
introduce ourselves yes thank you um I'd like to begin by introducing uh the board and our staff um if you'd like to begin Sean uh Sean Fahy member Jim Davis member Cheryl toaya secretary M you phield member and Meredith Hall serving
as chair um and on um in the with us uh but not in the room she's in office we have um Julia Gman um unfortunately Cheyenne is out with the flu so thinking of her and hope she um feels better soon um now we can move to the approval
of our minutes and um Cheryl is we're still working on edits for those there were two sets um of edits that were from the 28th of January and double check the dates um
but since we don't have the edits 23rd and the 28th the 23rd and the 28th yeah oh yeah Julie um so since uh we're still working on the edits um they are not ready to be approved this evening so I would ask for a motion to defer the
minutes so moved second second okay all in favor I I thank you um the next um discussion of the next meeting dates we currently um
we had to schedule a meeting for next Thursday the 20th which should be a very brief um very brief meeting it is essentially um to because of the zoning articles at our last meeting at the last
public hearing that we had we moved to discuss them on the following Tuesday but we actually did not take a vote to continue the public hearing so in that case what happens is it it it ends the public hearing so we are going to Simply
on next Thursday reopen the zoning articles we can't make any changes unless the warrant committee recommends that we make a change that would be an opportunity and that is I guess the good thing about having it right before town meeting if there are any changes um that are that are needed or suggested by the
warrant committee we would have an opportunity to do that um if there are no changes um we would simply close the public hearing on that and so that will be next Thursday hopefully you can come everyone can make it um is it a zoom or it's fully Zoom it's fully Zoom fully
remote for that meeting and it should be very brief I me a half hour um 7 o'cl at 7 o'clock yeah um so that is on the 20th um and then we will have uh Julia
is reserving the room for us um I think Julia did we say 7:15 uh yeah or I think you you were going to reserve um so on Monday and Tuesday night just if there's anything that comes up that we would need to discuss um we will have that and have a
room reserved before um the uh town meeting on the 24th and 25th and then we have a regular scheduled meeting on the 27th um at this time we don't have anything that we
absolutely have to have on the 27th so because we will have had quite a few meetings I know we'll discuss um yours but at this time um I think we unless we have something um very that's extremely urgent I think the 27th meeting we could
consider um canceling that meeting on the 20 because we will have had Monday Tuesday possibly Wednesday town meeting and so and we will have just moved had that the 20th so we will have Basset Street coming back on the on the 13th um so certainly we could continue any other
public he hearings um until the 13th as well I don't know if um 13th of March and then that would be 13th of yeah it's confusing because we have a tonight's 13th and then the March 13th meeting and if something did come
up that we needed to we could add a meeting that first week in March but I think um I think at this time we can uh we will be through our zoning articles which will be great to have those um and hopefully we a few other things that we've been able to um to wrap up too so
and we'll have to talk about a um forum for East Milton overlay and oh yes and then that is one thing um Julia that I after and we'll discuss that I think when we get to that um when Josh comes on is that we'll want to schedule um a
public forum and have him come and that could be that first week and you know depending on how soon he can do it and how soon we can post it and and let um everyone know so to come but we'll discuss that later so for now we'll plan for the 13th of March yes okay yep
okay so we're we're going to go a month without a regular scheduled meeting we will meet well we'll have the 24th the 25th the 20th 24th 25th pre- meetings and
then um and did we did we uh CU 10 Basset Street they're they couldn't get into the zba so that's why they're not until the 13th uh I know later on the agenda we have discussion of the East Milton
overlay zoning as well as MBTA zoning MH and uh we talked about having East Milton zoning submitted for the Maytown meeting so how does um
how when does that opportunity to submit is the warrant closed well I I thought we would discuss that tonight the warrant closed is um we would have to have our article and if we depending on how we feel tonight if we feel ready to submit it um the
27th is that is the deadine for Artic for for getting the zoning articles in that's when they're asking for them okay um so you think there's adequate time without needing any meeting for a month I think if tonight um we feel
comfortable we could submit it now and at least let Town Council I'd like to let Town Council get as much time to review it as possible um and just see if there's any um recommended revisions but get it to you know at least after the warrant committee after their stretch of
meetings not that they're going to want to look at another article but um at least they'll have it with and they can schedule it their convenience but I thought we' um could decide that if we decide we need that 27th at that you know after Josh comes we certainly could
could get have that back so I maybe we just leave it open for now until we get through tonight and that's I think that would be good to do that's good yeah yeah and so we'll discuss all the items on here but just I was just tentatively thinking about that in
advance um staff update um did Cheyenne give you anything Julia that you wanted to discuss um only that there's an anr coming for uh 572 Harland Street um he dropped off some plans on Tuesday and an
application so um we should put that on an agenda Point okay and what was the address Julie 5722 Mar yeah 572 and we'll want cheyen to review that
too um but there is a um a requirement for opening the hearing on an anr upon receipt I don't recall how many days but that's something to look at with Cheyenne as well before deciding about the meetings if the 13th Would um yeah
if that was we'll have to check if it's 45 days or how many days right you might know how how quickly you have to hear the fing an anr I thought it was 30 days but it's um it can be on any meeting it's not a hearing process say you don't
have to yes okay we'll confirm we'll confirm that cuz yeah we want to make sure that that's um yeah well we're not required to advertise it's been our practice to because um residents neighbors have asked us to do that to right so we do need to be mindful of
that too so and I did want Cheyenne to look to to look over the anr to make sure that there everything that they need to submit that they have properly submitted so with her being sick she wasn't able to sure to take a look at that this week but just to make sure that it does um qualify as an anr
okay okay um so the next thing we have um is our citizens speak if there's anyone um from the public who would like to speak on something that's you yep great
welcome Joe Joe Karen Grafton a I want to just talk about the East Milton overlay District um I spoke at the select board meeting and I heard while you were speaking you're going to meet with the residents which is what I asked to make sure the select board did and I
heard that you're going to have this forum and that makes me very happy I won't repeat everything I said at the select board meeting some of you were there um I want to commend you on what you've done and that's what I tried to say in that meeting I I know this has been a long hard process and I'm
appreciative of it the the Forum is really for me is the last part of this my neighbors as a Precinct 7 toown meeting member have been asking me about this um it's important to us and I I do appreciate everything that you're doing
the only thing that I'm unsure of and and I'm not looking for a response now is I as in watching this I think there's some sort of three-year look ahead where you can come back and change it without potentially coming back to the citizens and I don't know if that's true but I
just I I saw it somewhere in some of the conversations potentially and that just bothered me if that were true and um I know you have a lot of work to do so thank you very much good it it's not true that we could change the zoning without going back through
town meeting if if it were adopted but the one thing that we can change are are the guidelines the design guidelines the design guidelines okay maybe maybe that's where that does not require town meeting yeah okay thank thank you very much and I look forward to the Forum great
also yeah and everything will be on the website so you can look at all the different y thank you documents great anyone else yes uh Brian Kelly to meeting member from freeing 7 uh 11 H grab at a recent planning board meeting
regarding the the nursery nursery special permit renewal there was a complaint regarding a gathering on the property Maggie olfield is a politically active member of the Milton Community and when I asked if we could hold a PO I feel kind of guilty about this cuz when I asked if we could hold a political
meeting in one of her beautiful flowering Gard Gardens she was more than happy to oblige it was a delightful evening we gathered for a part luck for part luck to eat and strategize and celebrate recent political victories this was not a dance party it
was a it was citizens with concerns about Milton's future I am here because I heard discussion about perhaps requiring a gate or a request to require a gate at the nursery to stop unpermitted activities I here to speak against any such action as it could very
well impede our civil rights to gather it may be possible that the complaintant does not share some of our political views and is trying to stop us from Gathering I don't know if that's true or not someone did call the police and they came and they left without an incident and we continued our meeting the right
to political Gathering is a fundamental aspect of civil rights primarily protected under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution this amendment ensures the freedom of assembly allowing individuals to gather peacefully for political purposes Express their views and petition the government for a redress a redress of
grievances uh from a civil rights context civil rights are designed to protect individuals from discrimination and ensure equal participation in political and social life the right to assemble is a vital part of these protections allowing citizens to engage in political discourse and advoc
advocacy in Massachusetts local zoning laws are governed by chapter 48 of the Massachusetts general laws which give cities and towns the authority to adopt ordinances and bylaws to regulate land use however these laws generally cannot prohibit political Gatherings
outright um and the last thing I'll leave you with this uh according to the ACLU they have a statement on this the right to assemble and protest peacefully is among the most important in a Democratic Society and the ACL ACLU has long been a champion in this field we
work to ensure that governments do not charge unreasonable costs for the right to protest deny equal rights of expression for viewpoints or speakers with whom they may not agree or otherwise unlawfully restrict the right to gather and express thank you thank
you okay anyone else who would like to speak and we have I don't know who we have on Zoom too but um yes if you'd like to please come there's two hands raised on zo I just want to make sure we we let people know that they will get to speak as well
so field TR Hunning 23 Parkwood Drive um I'm just taking exception to what the uh recent gentleman uh said I did vote no and I supported um John cohane but the fact is that we do have um subsection n
and it's part of the zoning law of Milton and the thing I'd like to say is that Maggie could have held the gather gathering at her house she has plenty of space Denny could have held the the Gathering at her place she has plenty of
space um instead for some reason it was held behind my house uh and it was not I agree it wasn't a dance party but there were loudspeakers there was anting it was it it was more than uh and there
were some comments last time about well what if Josh decided to have a party and Cheryl pointed out he can talk to his neighbors the r the retes live um at two 270 Hillside Street they have parties routinely in the summer I have never
made one comment about the retes and I don't mind if they do what they want to do but the retes parties are nothing like the G Gathering that was held at their nursery and I think it's great for people to have the right to assemble
fine but they can do it they can do it at Maggie's house or they can do it at Denny's house they don't have to do it at what is basically my house um that's all I have to say thank you okay and Julia if you can
um let us know who's Eric Hinson has a okay welcome thank you uh Eric Hinson um throughout the campaign leading up to last year's vote on the MBTA zoning a lot of arguments were made about the trolley not being Rapid Transit and how
it wasn't fair that Milton was classified as a rapid transit Community instead many argued that Milton should be an adjacent community and the chair of the select board reiterated this recently it's not about being anti- housing but about being fair tonight I'm not here to debate about whether it's a
rapid transit or not but after last year's vote the planning board committed to developing two zoning articles for the town one as if Milton were a rapid transit community and one as if it were an adjacent Community nearly one year later we have neither and now the
planning board is unequivocally stating that it has no plans to produce either while the Nullification of the guidelines by the SJC last month effectively extended the deadline for compliance the planning board and a group of residents are now attempting to rewrite the law by creating a new
category for Milton and for Milton alone a category that would require even less zoning capacity than an adjacent Community this is contrary to what the planning board publicly promised it would do and what many of the no voters even said was fair to date the public
has not heard the planning board cogently explain why it is ignoring the plain language of the statute that requires hlc to develop regulations for compliance and why it is pursuing the sing path instead of preparing for all potential outcomes based upon recent conversations
and news reports many believe that the planning board is still going to develop plans for both 25% and 10% Alternatives but are unaware of the effort to do and to do only less because the only result of this action will be even more legal
costs and less State funding at a time when we are discussing a nearly $10 million override it is only fair for the planning board to explain to Residents whether they voted yes no or not at all why it is not preparing for all possible outcomes the SJC was clear Milton must
comply with the law while the form of that compliance may not be finalized yet Milton residents deserve to be ready to comply with the law whether we're rapid transit or an adjacent Community the planning board has had time to make progress on these plans and it's time for the board to do what it promised it
would do to plan for the future of this town please resume discussions on the district scorecards re-engage the town's consultants and more importantly invite the public to speak sometime other than a Thursday night at 7:00 p.m. a good start would be to resched the public meetings that the planning board
canceled last November please do your part so that we will be ready to comply with the law we know we will have to and that's what's fair for us thank you thank you and Julia who else do have car white
great okay welcome Carrie go ahead I believe you're still muted Carrie um Carrie's hand is down okay do you see her hand is down now yeah her hand is down we have Douglas
Hine with handres okay welcome Doug good evening everybody I'm Doug Hine uh 453 Elliott to meeting member pring too um I know we've got the uh action plan deadline due in about 4 and 1 half hours don't don't think we're going to make that but that's actually
not why I'm I wanted to say a few words today um I I I want to I want to pose a question and this is not rhetorical it's a legitimate question that I want each of you to kind of kind of hold in your own hearts and that is do you acknowledge the the possibility that at
some point in time we may be required to comply with a a zoning scheme that that um categorizes us as a rapid transit community and like I said that's that's not a rhetorical question the reason why I'm asking something I guess so so basic is
that I've got about 22 23 years of being an attorney under my belt and it's it's very common for clients of mine to come into the office and want something to be true so badly that they they simply can't acknowledge the possibility that
the outcome they desire is not what's what's going to happen um and and I think there's there's no question that the the super majority of this board you know feels that the the uh the hlc guidelines are are unfair improper illegal um and I have some real deep
reservations about them as well I i' I've been pretty vocal about the fact that I I don't like what's going to happen to my street um if if we have to have a plan that um complies of a rapid transit uh Community designation but but
be that as it may if it's the law it's the law what I'm suggesting to you all is that we need to be realistic about the possibility that uh we're going to be forced to take action at some point in time um Eric said a lot of other points I wanted to to make about um
going forward and drafting a plan that complies with a a rapid transit designation and also it doesn't limit your ability to uh to draft alternate plans that either have us as an adjacent Community or something entirely different I I certainly don't think it's a bad idea to have different options on
the table but here's the reason why I think you should continue to work on a rapid transit categorization compliant plan to present prevent the worst case scenario and the worst case scenario is the thing that what people I think don't like about the MBTA communities act to
begin with loss of control loss of control over our zoning uh and and and I'm not saying this to you know use hyperbole or try and scare you or anything like that the Commonwealth itself in their pleadings have asked as relief to have the Court appoint a
special Master to dictate precisely what our zoning would be if we don't do it ourselves that's the worst case scenario um and it's something that that really should should concern this board in this town and and I and I don't think people are are worried about that possibility
that's why I started off by asking the basic question do you acknowledge that's a possibility it is and something that grave you have to guard against the only way to do that is to go forward with a rapid transit do uh uh plan that doesn't mean that you have to put it to a voted
town meeting uh it just means that you have to have a plan ready to go because if you don't and if the worst case scenario does happen and is if a uh if a special Master is appointed that person might look to the past to find a compliant plan by that I'm certainly
referring to the one that passed town meeting but then was ultimately defeated by a townwide vote by a significant margin I think the residents of East Milton should want you to come up with a rapid transit uh plan compliant plan um
the the work that's been done over the past summer uh I think were steps in the right direction and addressed a lot of the fears from that section of town and took a lot of the the newly zoned housing out of East Milton away from the the on-ramp and and put it in different
parts throughout Town um but if if you don't go forward with that plan and at least have it ready to go if a special Master gets appointed the folks at East Milton might be looking at you and asking why didn't you have an alternate plan ready to go and and certainly when
doing that you know whether it's drafting that plan or or or alternate plans have Community meetings let the public know about what you're thinking what you're trying to do I think that's the best thing you can possibly do to um to guard against that worst case scenario and and and i' I've kind of
accepted the fact that there's going to be some form of litigation in this case Cas it just I I think there's there's just no two ways about it I think you know I wouldn't be surprised if we get sued in the near term over this emergency guidelines and the action plan I think that would be
kind of a a dumb suit but it because it doesn't get at the real heart of what I think people have a problem with with the uh the regulations but you those chips are going to fall where they may um guard against that worst case scenario you might not want it to happen you might not think it's going to happen
um I mean I have life insurance I I hope I'm around for a long time but I pay those premiums every year because you got to guard against the worst case scenario and and moving forward drafting a variety of plans does that so I'd urge you to continue that that hard work that
you folks um started thank you that's great okay all right I think it's time we should move on at this point I think that was everybody um so um next item on the agenda is our East Milton Square uh
zoning with mapc and Julia do we have Josh with us is Josh yep here all right so we can let him invite him in good evening everyone hi Josh welcome back to uh to turn my video on I will
need to be a panelist h okay Julia can you you make Josh a [Applause] panelist oh there you are okay great thank you
so do you want me to start off yes all right I didn't know if you were all set okay ready Sor welcome um if you'd like to begin just by introducing yourself again for those who are Josh fiala principal planner and land use manager at the metropolitan area planning Council been assisting the
town with the East Milton Square zoning great thank you and if you'd like to run through you had sent a memo with some of the updated changes which were great um if you just want to go through and have any comments that you would like to um make
initially sure would you like me to bring that up on the screen sure that would be great okay here's the memo that I prepared based upon the conversations believe in the last two planning board maybe not last two consecutively for the board but the last two which I have
joined you with um and these were changes to both the comment memo the zoning language itself and the East Milton Square design guidelines document um I would say relatively minor comments and changes overall but I think some
important conclu like following up on important conversations that we had together um let's see if I'll just touch on some of the more consequential a fewer um typographical type errors that we don't need to go over again we did add an additional purpose statement at the
suggestion of the board to preserve and enhance the historic character of East Milton um we modified some of the language around the historic preservation Provisions to clarify those and when um the additional review would
be required uh if deemed historically important making that clarification in the language um clarified the streetscape improvements and made a very specific suggestion about similar
to the Investments recently near Manning community park and the related streetscape improvements there uh made a mention of Goose goose neck lighting which also shows up in the guidelines relative to exterior illumination of
signage and um clarified some items which are in the commentary memo only more about uh just making sure that the some of the references there were accurate which are cleaned up now and on the so that all occurred
within the commentary memo and the the uh zoning language itself in the design guidelines document we changed a reference to drugstores to a reference to pharmacies and then modified the date ranges to correspond
with the 1940 date cut off to uh deem a property historically uh significant to further uh to uh trigger further review and uh therefore reorganized the date ranges of the percentages of buildings
which were built within the different ranges to also hit 1940 so that that can be seen more easily great good that was a excellent summary did anyone have questions on any of these changes that were that were
made Josh I just had one question if you could could you pull up the memorandum uh document um and on page 16 um and I don't know whether this was during the change but um the first
sentence uh isn't complete and then it I think it could be um let's see at least in the draft that I have page 16 at the bottom um it would be under at the very bottom under maximum Building height below the
looking forward quote it begins with if the proposed zoning as currently [Music] recommended see yes so if the then what and I was thinking you could actually
take out the take add the bottom sentence and then you could say mapc recommends that the town consider increasing so you could just yeah or or I might suggest in that
first sentence adding um additional modifications uh might warrant exploration or something to that that's great that's is that acceptable to can you show where that would go again um it's right here
right so that that would read um if the proposed zoning as currently recommended it is not successful in attracting future development then future zoning expl sorry I said it be the first
time exploration of future zoning modifications may be warranted that's I think that's excellent so I like the change now is that an example of something that would not have to go to town meeting this is
the com this is the commentary so it's it's not the language of the zoning this is just in the commentary that I think it would be on the website on the town website but it wouldn't be in the body of the Z part of Z yeah but just to be clear though what what that sentence is
suggesting would be something that would go to town meeting ex yes good enough thank youh great Josh I just have one question and it's it just kind of surprised me um it it read in one of the um one of the
changes that you made that I think it's a change that you made that 17% of the of the parcels have no structure is that right 177% have no structure uh just struck me that there were that many Parcels that yeah I was
too I was surprised yeah I think the um the parcel lines may not exactly corespond to how people perceive propert like whole properties I think there might be some portions of a a property May for example be split into two where
the parking lot for example is actually technically a separate parcel okay which adds to that percentage okay okay yeah in that respect it's a bit misleading uh but maybe my interpretation was incorrect but thanks so Josh then um
not because it not to avoid being redundant this last sentence then says then MPC recommends that the town increase um which I would i' like to say consider increasing um because I don't think it's absolute we would con we
would consider it um but is that redundant for your to the first sentence mapc recomend I think or just mapc recommends and taking then I guess it's the then
starting the sentence seems awkward I don't okay yeah I can clean that up I do like leaving the first sentence more General because we we offer some suggestions but there might be other things you know that the town might consider right in the future that are
not listed here M recommends that the town consider increasing would would then MC would then recommend mapc would then recommend cuz it's reactive to
the okay yeah so considering having trouble with the comment feature here that's right okay yeah consider yeah that's um okay because sometimes those reports come back or those comments come
back and it didn't capture well he's got it just as a note in the side yeah yeah I've got I've got them here so yes I sorry I'm in a PDF right now not the word document so it's I'm I can't live edit but got it
okay but I've got I've got them all as comments here okay what we just talked about so I thought those any any other comments from the board on anything I thought those were great all those the changes that were made were
good um the only thing I I'm still struggling with the map so and and honestly I don't know that we have to make a final decision on the map um before we do a community Forum we might want to get in public input from the
community and again it's I I'm fine with the post office because I do think it has some productive um the underly zoning would always still be there which is commercial it would just be um there would be triggers for a historic so I um I did feel better about
that what I what I did think that we really should think carefully about is the fruit Center is on it's a residentially zoned parcel and it's if you look at the map it's the biggest parcel which could have the greatest impact to the residential neighbors
buffering it so I I would think because I mean the map would um it would be small it would fall mostly along the Granite Avenue in Adam Street but by removing that it would give us
um just additional site plan uh approval and um you know if if was a significant change that I think we would have the opportunity to weigh in if we did this by right um we're looking at we're automatically
allowing a height you know a certain amount of height a certain amount of um I think one thing that we can see through some of the applications that have come before us which is businesses that have been operating or a business use has been
operating on a property for decades and decades and decades and any and but yet the underlying zoning is not business and so any change is risky and therefore it limits the
opportunity for the property and and it really um I think puts the the use at risk so having a clear path is is much better for everyone I think
for the business owner for the neighbors and for the planning board because having to what decide whether it jumps to zba or not or whether it is permits are triggered here or there um when we have these uses that are
you know so long business that the there's it's just not productive to have residential zoning underlying it so if we're going to try and move our zoning forward it seems to me we should we should tackle that we shouldn't um we
shouldn't leave it out I think we put the protection in site plan approval um that allows us to guide um and this would have cyan approval even under as of right and I think you know we all spoke quite a bit
at the war committee about why we felt it was really important to keep that in right right so I you know I that's to me the strikes the balance you know of what you're talking about in terms of being concerned about a process I think that Cy plan approval gives us a process but
it also gives us more predictable um path so yeah it's just something to consider I think Jimmy you had brought up that I think you were the one who brought up but really torn on this one because we're now changing the rules for what 20
of Butters and then Beyond in that neighborhood and by right is by right and I think that's where the advantage will be when we have a public forum um and we we get to hear from the East Milton residents I would like to you
know not necessarily make the decision tonight but I do think it's an important direction that we that we want to get public input on especially one thing I also neighborhood sorry um just one other thing is that
when um the Falcone were looking at their property on basid street they and there was a lot of um angst in amongst the community residents came to the planning
board and said give us an overlay give us um a clear path so that we don't have to negotiate each property and uh we're not doing that if we selectively take some properties out so that's just another thing that um I think we should
consider yeah and also we need to consider we're also undergoing an economic development plan um at some point
and I think whatever sort of we decide on this business in this residential district would set a precedent for other businesses in other residential neighborhoods so I
would proceed with some caution um because there are a lot of other businesses mine included um that are in residential neighborhoods and I really would Advocate if we do for
this one we would have to do for all um so it is beyond this conversation I think is beyond just East Milton we have other um not just my
business but other businesses in residential neighborhoods you know you look down on C kav at Franny's corn Corner um so there's a lot of you know down on Brook Road at Milton Food Mart where we did pass some zoning
in the past few years and nothing's happened there but that's another Corner as well as a 7-Eleven on Route 28 so um if that's the road we want to go down then I think that we have to look
at townwide we've been studying oh yeah Josh go ahead but I just wanted to put in one add one detail to the conversation right there um that may differentiate this parcel relative to some other uh business properties in a
residential Zone this the property today is technically a split zone property so it does have a portion of its um front near near Granite a um Corners which are in the business district so it is both
business and residentially Zone today right yep that's true that's helpful and I think we in all of this we'll we'll just we'll really will'll need to listen to the public and and want to hear um how how folks feel about it but I agree with Cheryl what you're saying
you know this is one of our the goals that we're trying to um achieve is to offer opportunities that prevent 40b projects so um that's having a more predictable path provides opportunity
for property owners that they don't have now and that's I think something people need to recognize is one of the challenges that we have we have no offense to our applicant coming up but we get do protected uses and we get 40b
on properties that were something else besides single family when there's no other alternative for them than the single family so we have to recognize that that's a that's that's been an issue and we should address that issue
um and it's like I said um it's not I mean some might wonder why we have had at least three daycare centers reviewed since I've been on the board at least three and uh we we haven't had too many
mixed use developments you know we we haven't had too many business we've had some minor modifications but our business districts have changed very little in decades and decades and decades and we have to recognize it's our regulatory environment that's
causing that in large part well um there there's different Pro yeah we will go there but that I just wanted to put a pin in that because I didn't know if if we wanted to express any opinion my feeling is I'd like to wait
and and through the forums and and public hearings L but do we are we if we plant keep in I think we keep it in all right because if we plant this submit we need a map as we learned recently if we've missed the maps then we're not and it we wouldn't be adding
more we would be taking it you know during the process so okay um so Josh continue if you want to highlight anything else topicwise I think that was it I think the the maap was um we have discussed previously and
it sounds like the the board is comfortable enough perhaps to as as you just discussed take it for uh further discussion final discussion with the community and if if you know how that depending on how that conversation goes
we can make some revisions um but um proceeding with I would say that you if if the desire is to submit a package for to get it uh in line with the warrant I think you have a package which is ready to do so and then can be subject to
further uh final adjustments I would I would agree um should we look at meeting dates now for um a possible Forum um we would have to post it um so we need at
least two paper uh news Cycles um so Julia where would it be what would be the sort of the earliest time frame that we could host a um a public forum um well I have to go into the
paper the Tuesday before noon before paper comes out so um looking at the calendar you could we that it posted on this coming Tuesday the 18th
um it could paper on the 20th and 27th and then we could have um a forum on the sixth of the rules okay does the sixth work for people Josh does that work for you 6 March 6 I think we had tentatively
talked about the six as yes I put I think I put a hold on it so that works for me I had another I do have another evening Forum on the sixth un okay all right what about the
fifth would the fifth work the fifth uh did that week is tough the fifth does not work for me as well okay um and you're saying that whole
week cuz we really I think you would prefer to go to the following week then with that the 10th 11th 12th is that is that too late for the warant um Cheryl and I have something on the 12th a meeting on
the 12th but the 10th or the 11th I I have um that's one the the Milton marketpl is is at the zba so I don't know if that's the best time because people might be tuning in who would be interested in both so maybe the
11th the 11th the zba is on the 10th right zba is on the 10th we could meet on the so we could meet on the 11th would that work Josh for you that would work I believe let me just see I'm going to check my colleague's calendar
so I can have a and that's before yes um yeah Tuesday March 11th that looks like it would work okay great let's let's plan on doing the Forum on the 11th um did we do it at 6:30 I feel like
we did it a little bit earlier I think it depends which room it's in like if you do the library you probably want to be at 6:30 if you do the we were I think we wanted to do it back at the um at the Arts Center the art center right okay so
we definitely we need to check their availability yeah all right why don't we do that Julia if can you tomorrow um morning if you have a chance check the availability at the Milton Arts Center sure and then send an email confirming with Josh and the board sure and I'm
sorry we're shoting for 6:30 or 7 at the Art Center um seven would probably be better for people to get home from work um okay so 7 7 p.m. okay and would your um second
choice be the library I think so that the library would be the second choice yeah yeah okay that would be good great Josh you did a wonderful job with that last time so that be that'll
be great to have you have you back for that does the board have any suggestions or preferences about the format of that meeting a presentation I imagine but do you have a um more of an open house or Q&A or what do you think the community might best benefit from in terms of
f um I kind of like the same as last time with the survey and people were able to well at at this point though we're further along in the process so sort of have our plan to present and we will have already submitted it to the warrant committee oh just for review we
you just to start looking at it Town Council guess I guess the question is what um the the goal of it is just to get feedback and allow for some
revisions depending on the feedback I think one thing I would suggest if if if you think about the people who went to the for the last forum and didn't tune in to the planning board meetings since then is kind of bring them back up to speed how you took the feed back and you adjusted the zone
or you drafted the zoning based on that feedback based on all the content that you um and the comments that you received because that's what you told us right some time ago and then we've reviewed it a couple of times so I think it's just bring them along bring people
along to how where we are today from there and I think we set the table that um we've been at this a long time and we've taken a lot of feedback and we we have some opportunity for some
additional comment but we hope that they agree that it's ready to go to a vote and so maybe we can send this to um the East Milton neighborhood association and have them distributed especially with
all the commentary so they understand how how we got to I would also say to the Chamber of Commerce because remember these are most of these property owners are business property owners not residential property owners so um they have as in my mind they should have
as much of a say as anyone yeah and then maybe Josh we could run through the you know the design guidelines because I think that you know just some pictures always help people you know and you did a great job you know putting together some examples um you know just sort of
highlighting um things not going in detail so one thing I was might suggest too uh because a lot of people may not be familiar with how the process works when you when we say something's as of right on a three story um let's just talk about what that looks like once this passes you know somebody wants to
come in and they want to do an an application for one of these properties you know what does you know what does this zoning tell them and then what's the process that they uh would follow in submitting a project and how there's opportunity for Community feedback
during that application process so you know it can be very technical we're used to looking at zoning language but for most people it's um I think you we want to explain what it does for them what's beneficial like I said a few minutes ago about setting
um a process that's more predictable and people's comments have already been put into this zoning and so those would stay they don't have to renegotiate all of those things on any application that comes in I think those are the kinds of things that are important to communicate
I think um I'm sorry to um support what your thoughts are this type of language and and there's a there's a lot that's been prepared here it's overwhelming for someone who's just picking it up to look at it and and trying to trying to
ascertain whether they're supportive or whether they have questions I think what you're describing is probably how a lot of people will be challenged by this but if Josh could do some examples let's say for example you know and Josh create three or four examples of different
projects that might you know this might be applicable for and and let people understand whatever those particular project might be how it would work you know what I mean it it would I think it would be helpful for people because an awful lot of people it it's there's a lot of information here that's just not
part this is part of your language every single day you know but it's not not everybody has your professional experience and background I think it'd be really helpful what do you think about that Josh I don't I don't think Sean's asking you to to design projects not at all not at all no Josh but but
you know for example say you know if a if an applicant that wanted to uh propose this type of a project and describe something and um and and just you know create a few of those scenarios that residents could hear you explain um
and they'd be able to recognize how how this overlay would allow projects to be built and maybe take um like the Milton Marketplace as an example that's the
largest piece in this puzzle Andor the Citizens Bank on granite AV and use that footprint and plop on a visual like a worst case scenario visual so people
could see what the problem then he has to make some program assumptions and design assumptions I think one thing you could do is take it and Di out where the setbacks would be what the building envelope could be Josh maybe what the parking requirement would be if you
maxed you you reached the maximum floor area that you could build something like that I think you started doing that at one point where you when you were showing us um sander Bank yes exactly I think I think opening up with the background and context that you've
written sort of going back to the beginning of the and telling the the story about how how we got to where we are right now um and some of that history and then I think your commentary you could almost pull this up and go through your commentary and read from those sections because I think those are
really really helpful um and maybe highlight some of those touch on you know Building height what's in the zoning rather than going through just the zoning which is strictly you know it is
um I think the important thing for people to understand it it's allows a mixed use it requires a portion of first floor commercial it allows a total of three stories um under site plan approval which is the as of right piece of it um
they out what the parking requirements are but then I also would say say lay out what the challenges are as you did you know in the commentary and lay out what we hope to you know accomplish with it you know that's that's really the important part and there's a lot of Protections in here for East Milton so
we want to let them know historic character you know what all the goals are and sort of the the protections um so if I don't know if like an hour dedicated to that but I would like to allow I want to hear from East Milton if we can at that time and allow them you
know maybe the first hour we we present an overview and then open it up for questions for the residents so one thing um just thinking about having watched and heard select board meetings recently and discussion of an override and
hearing people comment about um our structural deficit and lack of commercial tax revenue uh one thing you can think about is kind of what kind of Economic Opportunity might this unlock in East Milton I think that was one of the early drivers of this too is that
our business districts aren't contributing a lot to the overall revenue of the town so in part because our zoning really doesn't has so many restrictions it's pretty difficult to to redevelop any of the properties currently so I don't you know
how Josh you did a buildout analysis in Milton village where we kind of estimated how many how much commercial space and how many units might um be yielded if you know certain percentage of the property did change
over is that a complicated or timec consuming thing to do at this juncture or is there something that could give us some estimate of what the opportunity this zoning brings from
an economic development point of view they usually they typically are a bit complicated and and quite dependent on um the assumptions that we make in terms of development program and approach uh to the various properties um
it's it's unclear whether or not that effort would be helpful because it's not as I think we've discussed this at length in other circumstances um but the the difficulty always with buildout analysis analyses
is that it compresses what is typically an incremental and long Redevelopment and reinvestment process in a district to a single number and it and it gives the impression that that type of change will happen at overnight or with the
flip of a switch or the approval of zoning and that that is not in fact how real estate reinvestment and Redevelopment works it it will take um years if not decades for a a substantial buildout and reinvestment to occur even
with the the zoning changes that were I think we can talk about it that but what about like if you are going to pick like two or three properties like Sean suggested and you would at least do the math to determine what that new development program might be then we
could look at what that t that might generate from tax revenue as compared to what's generated now and just use one example or two or three examples the you know so the concern that I have with that is similar to the concern with um R
kg's analysis with MBTA zoning was just this is for mixed use and um they they assume a a fewer amount of kids in our school system so that's what I'm a little bit hesitant I
you know I've listened to conversations about um new growth in the town and even when I talk to the assessor they're always talking about oh this is New Growth but they never really project new expenses um so there's always a a
tradeoff um for New Growth so that's why I'm I'm a little bit so I'd like to see the revenue um part of it coming in um but we have to also be realistic since we are creating the
opportunity for new housing more housing um they're just would be more expenses too all right so maybe that's something that we can talk about without quantifying maybe yeah okay and I think the language that's in here is good
talking that Josh is written on opportunities um in that area so great so so I think I'm comfortable tonight advancing the article for the Maytown meeting anyone make a motion motion I'll
make a motion to submit the um East Milton mixed use overlay zoning did we call it a PUD by the way Josh on this one no okay no we did not okay so of the East Milton U mixed use overlay zoning
uh for consideration um for Town meet the May town meeting is there a second a second okay all in favor just can I just amend that sorry with the map that's attached yeah which would have to go with it yeah are you amending y yeah
second the amendment okay okay all in favor great so Julia we can send maybe um I mean maybe we wait just touch base but let um we'll let the select board know this is this is going to be coming I
know they were already thinking about Maytown meeting and um what was going to be what articles and think what things would come forth so we we'll connect on that so can I just say to Josh too Josh thank you it's been a journey um the it feels like a
culmination of many many years of work and um and you brought us in this last Lego it picked up the last leg so thank you you've done an excellent job yeah I'm really grateful so thank you all for your your labors in
it and effort and dedication to it and uh we hope that the community receives it well at that final form and we believe it has very been very responsive to the community's requests and needs great great thanks very much Josh thank you nice evening and we'll confirm with
you um as soon as we hear the Milton Art Center or what the location would be fantastic thank you great thanks Josh great um all right so next um we have the 227 pleasantry uh Pine Hills
Garden as built plan we had a few things to come in today but Maran if you want to come and join us and um and can I just say something oh yes sorry um so I just wanted um to let you know that I spoke with the state ethics commission
today regarding the potential of an appearance of a conflict of interests because my business has hired attorney mcgetrick and has hired the engineer Delle Burke who is involved in this um
agenda item ethics suggested I file a written disclosure and I did that today with the Town Clerk and I'm just publicly stating that and they said because I do not have any financial interest in this um agenda item now that
I'm able to participate in this discussion thank you great thank you and welcome man nice to have you good evening everyone good evening so I'm just here tonight to talk to you about an asilt plan for 227 Pleasant Street which is Pine
Gardens development it's a small development with pretty big houses um it's on a little Hill off Pleasant Street and it's taken several years to be completed but all of the houses have been constructed mostly they were sold the Lots were sold and then the houses were constructed by the de developer
with the um new owner and um each house has an occupancy permit and is occupied um we did finally have toel Burke finish and ASB built certified plan the plan the es built plan shows the lot layout shows where the roadway is shows where
the utilities are the drainage systems um it's not all of the pages of the plan for the um subdivision but it's important and and one other thing that had to be done with this sville plan was the the um the scale had to be changed
for this plan because DPW didn't like the scale they used in the original plan and they did do that um so Meredith very appropriately asked me I think of today um or I asked her whether you wanted large copies of the plan if you approve the plan then I will order from Dell
Burke a myar and then you will have to sign that myar and I think think right now where you don't have a regular um you only have an assistant planner I think maybe the board members are going to have to sign it but you can do that you know as you're able to so um the question from um Meredith though was do
you have a letter from DPW or a letter from the from the U building department you know whatever it is that you need at this point and I have to admit I wasn't sure but then we sent out inquiries so um I have to say I really appreciate the
response to immediately today because Walter White responded he's our interim one of our interim building Commissioners he's off today but nevertheless he did responded and indicated that yes each house has an occupancy permit and he personally was
the one who did the inspections so as far as the building department is concerned this development is done from a building code um and occupancy permit standpoint then the next question was to the DPW and it's kind of a town engineer
DPW question right now we have we director no Town engineer but she was the town engineer so again she was very nice to respond because she's out she's ill but she nevertheless did respond she provided a letter to the board and if you haven't had a chance to look at it I
can read it to it's one pages one page so um and she also said that she's looking for a grant of easement which is correct there um this is a private road and like most of these developments private road Private drainage structures
private septic sewer line but the town does not do private water lines they want to control the entire water system so uh they need to be able to get in they had to approve the water line was installed by the contractor but they need to be able to get in later to do maintenance and they also have to we
also have to be able to maintain the fire hydrant um and the and um sometimes there's emergency access required so I what I did was to take the um grant abasement that I had done for went with Farm several years ago it's a bigger
development but the same type of private and not private infrastructure um and I sent that a draft um back to Marina to review she probably she may not have reviewed it yet because we kind of crossed I sent the easement she sent the letter saying
I'm going to be looking to that I also sent her a copy of the Declaration of trust because the Declaration of trust explains in detail um that all the things Marina expressed concern about here are private so the drainage system is private and all parts of the drainage
system the uh sewer lines are private the road is private the light is private those all have to be maintained by these five homeowners and if we do get when we do get an esil plan approved um i' like
to I'd like to record this grant of easements before this happens but the Home Owners Association is supposed to take over management and then they will become responsible for example for plowing so the developer is still doing the plowing so of course he would really like to be able to hand it over um but
it's you know you have to the Grand of usually has to be reviewed by Town Council then it comes back to the Town Administrator and at the next available meeting I believe they still do it this way the members of the select board have to approve it and then they sign it but
what I like to do is to have a document ready for Signature so if Town council's approved it then we provide that document they sign it at their meeting then I could take it and record it because I'll be able to get the um the gror signature ahead of time so um it it
appears to me that that these um sort of supporting elements are complete and I managed to get a response surprisingly the same day that you asked um the only question really for me at least is on the plan
itself do you have any questions and do you have that so that you can look at it on your laptop or sorry that I didn't I I asked my original inquiry do you want to share it no that's okay unless I will if you have a question so um so
regarding like eement um is that reflected on the plan no the easement is um recorded at the registry of deeds um but it typically would not be on no I don't the plan that well
I could ask them to put I actually I don't have it recorded yet that's the problem if I get it recorded and maybe that would make sense let me make a note of that I can have the engineer put a note on the plan that would be I I think that's help Grant of each eement just whoever's looking at that that just for
the water though not for the gas or the SE well it it's to the recorded Grant of easement and then this is the grant abasement which I'm supposed to pass out to you but I didn't so that you just so you can see what it says this is just a draft has been approved but there is two
copies and one more I have one here um yeah I so when someone looks at the development plan and they see the note about the grant of easement they'll see the recording reference they look it up they read it they know if they're buying from one of these first buyers they know what
the easement says right and then um there are you know the grant easement actually references a number of other documents like the subdivision plan like the sub subdivision control approval decision so once you read the grant
abasement then you go back you're LED back to other documents that affect this devel that's why it's important I think that it's you're right reflected just yeah and I think I was selling a house on that lot you know and you you wouldn't know about the easen and then you'd have to go try to track it and find it so so if if you're satisfied
generally with the um as buil plan um I would not be returning with a myar until I have the engineer put that note on and it might take a little while because I want to wait until I have a recording reference that would be great um so I hope that the developer will be understanding of that but we just have
to do it that way um yeah but it sounds like everything's just in great shape and ready to and it's a great glad that all the homes are sold and it's a yeah a good project there were also it just it referenced in just the letter um along
with minor updates and adjustments to the submitted as built plan do you know what those minor updates were so the last second to last paragraph last sentence and is that anything that
should also be refed in the plan well I can tell you that until the minor updates and adjustments are explained and put on the plan you're not going to get a this bill you you're not going to get a myar back to sign so I just make a note you know you should expect to see
it but it won't be probably for several weeks um no I don't know what that is because I I did see I did see if I didn't want to call Arena at home since she's not feeling well but I will be talking to her to find out what that is but I'm also assuming that
um Kyle oh no not Kyle Harish I think the engineer called her you know to check on the status of this plan from the engineering department um I think I think they spoke Direct to Marina but they could have been talking to Sky as well so we will find out and you're
right there's I'll make it just a little check didn't we get a letter from Sky yeah well it was the same thing it was just another email that I just wanted to forward any correspondence I had um so the question is the plan that you're looking at is still subject to
minor adjustments so what I will tell you I will do is once those adjustments are on it then we have to get another signature anyway um so I'll send it at for information purposes to all of you and that will be before I come back to to get the
signature on the myar and before I put the note with the um Grant of e yeah okay let me just see if there's anything else that I didn't notice um everything else looked good yeah the notes about what remains privately owned um those
are good comments to make those are reflected in the Declaration of trust and the grant of these only allows the town to go in and maintain what it owns and the only thing it owns is the water line basically and the fire hydrant
okay that's great so um I don't know whether yeah do you I'd rather not so are you willing to take a vote that you're satisfied with the S Bill plan subject to the Minor Adjustments that are to be made and that I don't have to come back for another
vote I'm fine with that I would be fine with that too okay do everyone okay that okay so the the actual vote is to accept the as built plan and that would be subject to the
inclusion of the easement language and the Minor Adjustments referenced in the letter from Marina Fernandez right so that's my motion second all in any discussion NOP okay all in
favor I I great thank you very much thank you thank you also I'll just review the notes in here and if I think there should be more notes relating to the pools or anything like that right it'll all be in there okay too small for me to read right now but I make sure that so thank you very much thanks for
meeting with me tonight and I have some I have the way forward now so that's helpful perfect thank you thank you okay so on our agenda next welcome we have um our public hearing
continued on site plan approval for zero Blue Hill AB parcel B 7-5 continuing from January 23rd and welcome if you just want to introduce yourself again for the public that's great yeah absolutely Chris fazin in with Viking development um here about Milton Avenue
zero Blue Hill out yeah um I'll have share my screen if Julia wants to promote me um and then all of our Consultants are on the zoom link should be civil architectural and traffic
great Julia can yeah it looks like she she's getting me one okay good and again thank you for submitting your materials I know in advance yeah appreciate appreciate that you've been great we've all been complimenting you for just um
how it's very has been helpful is good okay so is that loads there we go last time the conclusion of our meeting there was a comment that we were getting close and that got me excited um
so we went back we looked at some of the comments and takeaways looked at the details and it does feel like we are getting to those last little things so I'm excited about that um with that I'll say that I I would like to set a goal for myself and maybe for all of us to uh maybe look at maybe a a motion for an
approval on this by the end with discussions of the the last comments and any remaining comments um if if conditions need to be discussed that's that's completely okay and I'd be willing to have those conversations um just looking back at all of this we started in August we started with preapp
and neighborhood meeting and neighbors attended the first meeting and and now we're here you know it's been 6 months of back and forth coordination uh you know incorporating neighbor comments and really think we've developed a a plan here Child Care Facility I understand it's in the ra
District but you know it meets a lot of the regulations I think it's a a permissible project um three meetings ago we went through a full redesign shrunk our building down added additional buffer space to a
Butters um increased our natural buffer to the right of way moved our detention system underground um removed a significant amount of retaining wall Limited disturbance earthw quantities tree removals we've now been through two peer review or a full peer review two traffic
counts um we've been through three reviews of a storm water peer review we're nearly complete on that um we've looked at building exterior we looked at retaining wall materials plant layouts those materials snow storage location parking quantities I think you guys get
the hint um I understand and this was a point I wanted to make to you guys I think it was the last meeting or maybe the meeting before you guys made it clear you have a responsibility to the community to make sure everything's well planned sustainable beneficial to them so I I think that that's where our cooperation has been uh trying to make
sure you guys are able to do that while keeping in mind you know our our brand our prototype trying to you know keep what the gardener school is um so I'll run through the comments and takeaways Page by Page plan by plan show you exactly where everything was added um feel free to ask any questions at that
point and just kind of run through it that way so um Jimmy you mentioned it right when we walked in the first one is the window um muttons we we had submitted this exhibit here as well as an updated um
elevation showing that revised design it will go on all four sides of the building I know if you guys had a chance to look at it have any questions um I think it was a good Improvement um well I have a just and and Jim and I because I always agree with you that I'm always
looking to do more of a um a classic look with more Mion um in this case because there are so many windows and they're so tall the biggest thing I look for in a in a building is consistency of some
kind and it's almost like you have two different styles going on which um to me it it doesn't look like it doesn't feel like a cohesive look and when I actually cuz I it was it was nice
to see this and I'm glad this is Jim was his his suggestion is that I think if you to keep it uniform if you went with the the 4 over4 versus the the um the
original I think that it might look really busy with all of that on all of the windows so I I think I'm actually in favor of what they originally had as as window
milons um I think it goes with the architecture but because I'm normally always that's more of the look I like but because there's so many if there weren't so many windows and I drove by the Goddard school today and you know they do um they have like an 8 over one
like they do but it's broken up and they don't have nearly as many windows and they're and they're shorter and wider um with this I feel like it could get really busy to do the do four 4 over four on all of them so and I want to
hear from the the rest of the others obviously but I I think I like originally seems a little more simple and a little bit more appropriate maybe with the style of architecture but I would open it up to everybody's thoughts on that do you have
can you easily bring up the original to compare yes let's see here but I like that we're looking at both so that's I think it's now the gift is what meeting did
we do architecture it was last meeting I think it was last meeting yeah so yeah so it was really we've had it this way for a while in terms of the the one floor having it so this
is actually from two meetings ago it was two meetings yeah it was when the architect was I think he was he quite ill guy yeah so that was before see what what I can't figure out that's what we
yeah this is from December this is from our January meeting so the difference is these windows here down in this in this lower level um that's what had changed right we've got six on the
bottom eight on the top six long here so we had made this inset portion uniform and then made the the middle one thicker to give that double hung look so I I think to so that was what yeah I think Jim's original
question was more about making them look more like a double hung window that's kind of what drove us to this change today so that that middle one we made thicker and then uh uniformly you know there's those what would be three on the first floor here and then the doors we
had added them if I can find now we the original yeah so I would say that given that you have window types that aren't double hung
um thickening or widening that Center Mion to me makes it a diff too different than the other windows so the where they're all have the same
thickness then you then having a different pattern in them seems to make um more sense because then if you make it look like a double hung then you begin to question why they all aren't double hungs I think so
um I think the way it was previously I agree with with Meredith that um would be my preference you know I also uh um given that I'm an architect you know
the architect has his vision and design here and um he's not here to see to ask what his preference is but um he I think he is on Zoom he can weigh in okay we like what he designed Chris was was this the or I'm
sorry Maggie was this the original was this the first uh elevation presented no so I feel like I have a remember I can go back further just just I guess for the sake of seeing what is start yeah I
almost like what I feel likeone you like to have options you like to see the options right so if I share this one with you guys Josh has his hand raised I think your architect might have his hand raised can everyone hear it
does seem that his window type was aligned with his siding you know he he had a different design where he has vertical siding mhm Josh would you like to add something can you hear me yes now we can hear you all right wonderful um yeah so
going back to kind of the design on what would be those double hug windows so the way we created it and still using the same system we have now for the best performance is that we are essentially using a traditional Mion as The Wider section so would actually
match the outside of the framing those internal ones are actually much much thinner um so it it is essentially a different character than than what you would see typically um I would agree that I think doing the two separate
designs how we are now is is a little busy I would prefer to stick with one idea over the other um I don't know at this point that I'm dead set on either one if we like enjoy the the hung book we can certainly do that across the
board um but I agree I think as a whole it would it would make more sense to keep continuity throughout all the windows what what was the difference in what your very original plan was and what we're looking at very original so the original was
twice the size in a single story if that's what we're referring to um but the windows were essentially um the ones that are on on the towers on the right and left so the that's what I remember can we try to find that just to
you want the sing the single story one it would have to be the single story but and that's fine I was just going back to when we transitioned to the two story so uh four plan
Elations let's see Josh while while Chris is looking at that um I just want to I want to make sure I understand what you said um are you saying that for all the windows you
would prefer same um same window everywhere in a sense yes so to create a little bit of uh proportion to this building we do have different sizes in general so the the lower story is
slightly smaller just because of the floor to floor ratio and when you're standing there they do not need to be as big to feel equal so the the second story is actually larger but I think character-wise it would make more sense to do the same design on both sizes
whether that's the the double hung or what you're seeing here with the uh the kind of lower and upper divider yeah and and and and that also would be regardless of what the siding style and material is Right same window no matter
what yeah true yeah what's the overall length of the building from from from far right corner to far left corner let me see I can pull it up it's it's not very long I mean it's I mean it's it's a relatively small building
132 ft 132 and I think 70 68 ft deep yeah correct it is 132 by 68 if you think about 32 ft relative to
let's just say an average home that's what I'm thinking it's a lot wider than an average longer or wider than an average home yeah so having these things where you're breaking down the scale into these what is it like five volumes a little bit um and changing the
material and the color and the and the um so so for but still a you know a colonial could be 30 right the the facade about 30 ft 32 34 something like that yeah
[Music] yeah so you were saying I I think interupted your train of thought right um yeah for me the um the windows um I prefer see to see
continuity in style than differentiation in style on the Windows because there's not a lot of three-dimensional variation here it's not like it's 20 30 ft where you have kind of a different Wing you really have some articulation of a
rectangle rectangular box and so um whether it's if you look at that right now that window is basically the same size right right to middle and left and yet you know the the
pattern is different so the question then becomes why um and to me sometimes if I'm looking at say okay I might do that if I had ganged the windows together or if I had a wider window but I have the same opening size and now I have a different you know subdivision
within it it it it doesn't seem to me to have the logic that I might expect and I'm not trying to be critical of Josh here but I think he's saying he he liked the idea of continuity and I would I agree with him on that I do too I agree with you as well I I think and and you
know part I mean the reason I asked the question about the length of the building is it it kind of leads into the there's not there's not a lot of Distinction here it's not a big it's not a very very large building and and I prefer continuity um you know throughout
regardless of regardless of um you know the difference in size from top to bottom or regardless of the of the different siding materials I I think think continuity would be preferred and and espe I agree and especially since the siding you already
have a difference in um siding so you have the the um horizontal gray and then the middle again I don't have the the language of an architect uh but then you have the vertical in the middle and then
at the top you have the shingle side so that's three you know it's still sort of the same in planting you plant in odd numbers so there's you have three different elements there with the siding three different sidings so then I do
think you need a something that ties those three elements together so I think I like the continuity yeah and and since we're talking about continuity we're talking about
Windows I happen to prefer the four over for um I think it has a Schoolhouse kind of theme to it for me anyway but i'm maybe a little bit of a too much of a traditionalist in that respect and uh um but that's my preference so I I would I
would view continuity as a as a desirable aesthetic but I could be open-minded in terms of style does gider have a position so my thought there would be looking at everything looking at the doors I think the doors would be
hard to get that kind of two short one long in the middle layout I think we could go with that four over4 look I guess the doors would be you know three six squares but it would look the same so I think we should
make those good ones four four over four and make it consistent that way I think that would be nice okay just to switch out those windows just to be consistent agree absolutely I agree as well um which one who has the cursor I
do uh so can you just drag the cursor to where so these these would be 4 over4 and then uh these would become 4 over4 and these would become 4 over4 and that would make you consistent across the whole thing okay and and in regard to the entry the entry stays as it is the
this here the well the double doors the side lights the yeah so this could become the two side ones could become 4 over4 and then the door we're leaving the door as it is just because of signage hours of operation addressing it gets really busy how do you guys all feel do you
yeah I love that then the other doors remain six light correct I wouldn't change I like that I wouldn't either the light above the top it kind of gives the eight um and then we would carry that across all all sides so those these would get them as well four over four correct what do
you think Cheryl yeah I think that's a good move okay cool yeah just do that revision you can send it out we can give you feedback because that was yeah I mean I think if we're honestly I think if if if we're good otherwise tonight I
think we could just have those follow those revised elevations follow AG yeah closure actually um I would yeah that's because we can't accept documents after we close a public
hearing so isn't that right Maran yeah um H well you know we could have you I think um come in by Zoom you know like if we say that the last remaining document that we have to bring in is a
revised elevation yeah and and if there's things like this hearing I don't know if I could get it next week it sounds like your schedule is crazy but that's a simple change that I could have to you a week um so I'm okay I just I can't I'd
like to work towards not having to wait till a month from now right to finalize this yeah and I I think if this is the last remaining document that would need to come in then I I would think we could do that in the 20th next week is there a situation where you could write a condition on all windows
being four over4 or something like that or um prior to building permit issuance something we also have we do have I just not I think I'm going to say same thing as you the storm water oh oh
no no well we have a meeting next Thursday and yeah and if you guys are willing to consider that for us that's fine I just you okay with that so I just wanted to because it sounds like the storm water had some revisions but did that get peer reviewed I I sound we
received comments this morning Bowlers on they can speak to the the minor items that are left um that is one of those items where we would need to have that as the maybe a suggestion Chris why don't we get through every and then we talk about we have all of our issues we
want to try to get you yeah I appreciate you guys working with us can I ask a question while we're on that elevation at the top of it looks like at the top of your Towers what is that round element can you can you blow that up what's what's your intention there yeah
so it's uh it would be our our logo uh Medallion depending on on sign signage ordinance and what would be allowed trying to find a plan just to show you what um um our Chris I believe he was referencing the coral yeah so well above our above our
letter signage we typically put a logo like this uh in a black and gold um aluminum painted that's sort of what The Goddard School did they have that sort of a circular logo and it seems like you have a number of them on the building is that is that really the intention to
have yeah for for Branding purposes we like to put them on on each of the gables that are visible um so I think as a a starting point it kind of ends up in in all Gables um but certainly you can see on this elevation here they're not shown they see on the front it's oh I
didn't realize yeah so these guys here I I noticed the one in the middle but yeah and there's we're open to it it in any signage committee review that we go through you know you have a certain amount of square footage and all of that so you end up um in areas maybe that Center one because it's so tall you
would put one there um maybe you only put them on the front three not on the other um North South and West elevations um is that representative of the size uh Josh do you know if those are drawn 30 in 36 in I believe they are
looking at this so that's the scale yeah it's I don't know my own point of view it's a little unusual to see three of the same sign across the front of any building
but um one good thing is that that's not facing the road correct this is this is facing the road so so that's the all the other sides we could I'd have absolutely no issue taking them off you know it's limited visibility prefer to see one
over the over the middle um but not on the two sides what do you think cherl because it's sort of a busy logo yeah I kind of also you have the words The Gardener School below the logo the logo saying The Gardener
school um what do you think about having the logo on the two ends and not on the center above the words and if it's black and gold that is more preferable than it's black and all
your M all your multicol then you're multicolored so that's historically question for for you guys does signage fall into what we would discuss here or is there a separate process for it I just don't want to discuss and commit here and then
go to someone else and and yeah we we do tend to touch on signage and talk about signage if we um we don't get into the details of the design but the general location and size we do okay yeah I just would hate to to go in this direction show up and they're like wait they
already told you what to do right no this would follow but they would they would sign off on the final even on a special perment I don't because I don't go to the sign review it's a different committee right it it changed since you did your signage it's now a sign Review Committee it used
to be the select board it's gone through different yeah iterations so it is even under a special permit you you still have to it depends illumination s illumination would Trigger selectman or select board there's as far as I've done research on
um I just I we had talked a little bit about the monument sign last week and I just wanted to make sure that it wasn't Crossing so that I have no issue there I I if we like them on the two ends and not above Gardener or Gardener with it because of that taller Gable um I I think our
preference would be to to have as many of them on this front facade as we can um just as a brand element I can show you a picture I I I I honestly and definitely don't like three
across the front you know I mean maybe what you suggested CHL one on each of the ends and just the Garder School in the middle or or the Garder School in the Middle with just one above it but not three I let's take the one out of
the middle I I'll approach it that way uh maybe we stack the on top of gardener to fill the space a little bit more that's I was going to say that leaves that sort of empty so that would be yeah yeah I I think you could look at the scale of those the size of those letters
in the center yeah this is a bigger yeah um you know plate for for signage that we've had in the past yeah so that would yeah okay and I just had another follow-up question to um architecture
and you had we had talked about the type of materials for the retaining wall as you come in did you settle on a certain um so that's actually my next item um I haven't I I've settled on in my response to you guys I had said I'm open to
either option that we've proposed for that stone veneer for that wall along the entry Drive uh my preference would be and maybe this is is handled in the approval or the conditions what might be I don't want to stick to one product over the other at this point just because of cost lead times all of those things I want to get uh the retaining
worldall to design it figure out which of those products they like to work with better all of that but I have no problem working with with one of those products I just one the Conigliaro Conigliaro or the natural Stonewall Solutions I like that one better so I I don't if we want
to we want to specify one brand over the other I'm okay there but in terms of like the block will match the color and nature of of our Stone along the base of the building um I just don't want to get all the way down one sample gym of the other so Pine Gardens used it actually
on Pleasant Street if you look at those two stone walls those are pre-manufactured and they're beautiful well in their response I like your your response I I do I um agree with you that you shouldn't stick to any particular brand because it
might go out of business you could might change so I'm okay with not having a brand but I do like how you said it is with natural stone finish um that complement the other natural elements so I think that's that language is probably
sufficient yeah so what I would suggest is on the elevation if you can have like a photograph of the Stone so that one when you that way when we'll have kind of the color and texture idea of it
and so when you go to get your final that you remember how we had a question come up with The Goddard School of the siding and we went out to the site and looked at the stone and everything I'm just trying to make it clear Mar and S you
know as clear as possible so we don't have any um sort of questions come up during construction that's not what we thought when we said these two options you know so sure it doesn't have to be on the drawing it could be a separate attachment but yeah something which
shows the coloration size kind of the texture of it that'll be another quick and easy thing for us I had submitted one of when he had originally brought up Natural Stone Wall I had sent something in and
and I know this is getting picky but since you're going with kind of black and white would the stone sort of be like Grays not in the Browns but I my intent would be to pick something as close to this uh material going at the base of the building yep okay natural
y okay good um next item on my list was the Cobblestone access drive we had talked about that I went and spoke to the traffic engineer touch base with the civil engineer in that resp respond to kind of outlin some some safety concerns as well as dot is just not a standard
pavement type um we are comfortable putting the granite curban adding some aesthetic to the entry of that um I just don't feel comfortable putting that in for snow removal sliding as you approach 138 and I did speak to two um commercial
snow plow drivers and they agreed with you okay I'll be honest it wasn't the first thing I thought of but when traffic brought it up I it made sense oh there was an issue or a comment
brought up last time about snow storage I'll just point out uh what we're talking about there um in this area here the grading had a steep 3:1 slope um so I had bowler kind of adjust the grading there create a little bit more of a flat space uh designated kind of a
snow storage area there um in this hatch that kind of um captures the the parking lot that's an improvement yeah they graded it a little better so a portion you know in low flows will drain to the parking lot and through the system uh and then we've con confirmed that if
anything goes south it'll be maintained in that sale and on our property and and what's that surface going to be Chris I should be a seated material okay okay um let me get back to the site plan next
one just to point out we talked about a guard rail on the Eastern parking there above the slope I think that was a good one for us to catch um from a safety perspective for parents and kids um we had that that drawn in here along the curb line um and that's wood correct and
that's called out as such yes proposed wood guard rail here great thanks we've put that in in a couple schools it looks it looks very good mhm um shrubs uh at our covert under our entry drive we just wanted to add a
little bit of um visual barrier from the roadway so you didn't see the rock rip wrap at the bottom of the soil there so we've kind of enhanced the planting here I believe we even pulled it a South a little bit um as a reminder there's also a too change there so uh 3 or 4T of a
vertical buffer as well and it's a good selection of plants it's a collection of deciduous as well as every greens and I think with the crab apples are a little bit shorter as your visual goes up to the maples which are taller so I think that's a good
Chris can I just go backward for a minute just for clarity that guardrail is 100% wood so it's wood horizontals on wood postre it's not wood on steel post wood post wood Rail Great
yep good question um planting on the East Edge uh big focus on us trying to make that non linear so we added some depth kind of up and down the slope here um we had also talked about getting a tree in this landscape Island here um because of the underground detention I can't actually get it in the island but
we got it right on that edge there um actually in some of these changes guardrail included we had to shift the underground Pond or underground system um a few feet to the West shade trees I think we got three more shade trees into the parking lot
area a couple on the south um yeah much better I'd say that's great nice uh took out two parking spaces made the parking lot symmetrical there in that bottom corner exterior lighting we did a little
bit of research on this one just to try and and see what really made the most sense what we determined was the north south and west sides are fully enclosed by Gates and so the timer of those building lights will be on the
standard timer which is off an hour after close I'm not sure why this Sheet's not loading there we go so um north south and playground Side West those will just be normal hours uh off an hour after close on an hour before close um the main entry facade any
lighting there and parking lot we'll go to a motion sensor an hour after um operation so 700 p.m. those would go to a motion sensor with the intent being at a dimmed level when triggered um something we haven't talked about that I thought also played into this was when
the parking lot used to be behind the building we were concerned about questionable activity so I think that helps also from a security perspective uh goose neck downlight on the monument sign we kind of talked about signage there I don't have any problem uh looking at an option there
um I think we would we would ultimately look to pursue maybe an illumination on that main Gardener School sign um but I have no problem looking at some sort of lighting on that Monument sign to match that um construction management plan um bowler had pulled something together
Cheyenne had shared with us the Milton Memory Care One I think they dove into construction hours they may have even put a traffic hall route plan together discussed dust control and a few other things I'm not sure if you guys had a chance to look at it you have any
questions can we talk about that for a few minutes yeah that's um they did a good job Chris I I thought um I thought they did real good job I just had a couple things I'd like to mention and and ask the board members to weigh in um I think something that I'd
like to make sure becomes um you know a requirement is that prior to the start of work there's a coordination SL review meeting with the police and your Builder
whoever the Builder ends up being um and that's if the police choose uh but I think it should be offered so the police and the building department if they so choose at the time that the contractor finalizes the construction management plan because the reality of it is that someone's going to take this at some
point and they're going to find it and I'd like to make sure that there's a meeting that occurs so that you get concurrence from the town officials that they're okay with whatever the final construction management plan is okay is that fair yeah absolutely and I think I
think there's a lot of permanent requirement items that'll that'll do that I don't know if police gets triggered in that in that fashion right but Public Works engineering they would all be out there they make note throughout this of their intention not to affect traffic they make note of um
not causing queuing you know out on the roadway or not having queuing out on the roadway um they make note of using police details to make sure so I think it would make good sense that the police department have a chance you know to to meet um since the public roadway is is
their responsibility yeah yeah I have I have no problem with that I read the police detail part two and and figured I I there was going to be some sort of coordination and and makes sense not to make the first time you know be a problem and that's why they're doing it we'll coordinate with them ahead of time
yeah again it's a we've we've asked us in the past I believe we asked us on the memory care clinic that there'd be a point in time where that Builder whoever it is cuz at this stage you cannot submit a construction management plan that's that's not going to change you know there'll be some there'll be some
changes um that was one and something else that I think is really beneficial and I'm not sure how this happens but um whoever you choose to build this we'll have um in in in the industry we call it a short interval schedule so a twoe
schedule or or most of us now use a 3we schedule and and at least for the residents that live nearby if that two we or 3 week look ahead schedule is available somehow for them to be able just understand what's happening do you know what I mean yeah um and I'm not
even sure how we make that available within the town like I don't I don't even know if there's a portal where large projects have that kind of information so any Resident somebody who's nearby could say okay i' just like to understand what's going on the next two or 3 weeks you know click on the website they got a big earthw work
activity you know at least therefore for warned and the town has less problems the town then has less issues with people calling the billing department saying hey what's going on over there you know the information's out there the residents can understand it um I think it's just managing expectations that'll probably save you some heartache too and
the Builder so I don't know how to effectuate that I just think it's a good idea uh completely other than the communication aspect of it and how we get it out to them it you know we we we have weekly meetings with the contractor to get
updates so that that schedule is constantly there you going to have it exactly so it's just a matter of how we get that shared with them yeah and I don't want it to be a burden for any Town officials I just would like it to be available so that any Resident could see it so I don't know if you can you can help figure out how to do that
that'd be great yeah well I'll brainstorm and and talk with the contractor uh most likely who builds this has built our other ones and and we can work something out there do you have like a new projects link to your website where you could put this project up yeah
we would have like a coming soon with a rendering or something maybe a drop down box or something under that we you just click on the new Milton project in the schedule possibly we don't have to solve it here yeah yeah right I'm worried about sharing too much information getting too far out ahead of us what
comes with with public information but um but it might be easier for you to be in control of the information I'm going then having Town officials be in control of the information well it might be you know what we used to
receive like when Walcott Woods was going on there was just a periodic um just sort of this is where we are right now this is our next phase or this is you know this is what we're doing right now so it wasn't even weekly it was you know maybe a month you know a month in
advance but um but it could be distributed to the DPW to you know the engineering department the U DPW it was distributed to the neighbors too it was also distributed to the neighbors so it was a really nice thing so I have on a Butters list from the neighborhood
meeting so we we and CC yeah DBW and the DBW engineering whoever else is involved there is probably out there on a right exact pretty regular basis umart but I think that's a good approach I think I as long as I have emails I could probably get it was really nice to be
able to get those it was like was a look ahead probably like um a 3 we look ahead probably M and then um I found them to be helpful mhm so that if we did hear from
Neighbors um we were familiar with where where things were with the progress was and the neighbors appreciated it I think they were knew what was going on and yeah I I have no problem with that that would likely fall on me and I I would take that on yeah and very you'll have less
heartache if you do it what's that you'll have less heart do yeah okay um construction hours I just want to make sure um what they've written is that the hours of site and exterior construction shall be 7:00 a.m. to 5:00
p.m. and I'm not sure you you'll have to I'm not sure that there's a distinction between exterior and interior but that's something for you to comply with the building department requirements but um but also I I I want to make sure that we note
um if your construction activities are starting at 7:00 a.m. most construction sites have arrivals earlier than that so you know many are coming to life at 6:00 people at you know if you're going to be working at 700 you can't arrive at 7:00
right so um just just you know add some add some I think you should just add some clarity that arrivals you know sure could be as early as 6:00 in the morning and the other thing that I'd caution you on under your parking of construction
equipment um you know consider that site equipment often times if they're going to work at 7 they're trying to start up their equipment earlier certainly in the winter time and I don't think that's allowed you know what I mean I I just want to be careful that we don't have equipment starting at 6:30 and running
from 6:30 to 7:00 so that they can be operating at 7:00 you know I just just make sure that the startup time of equipment is not earlier than 7:00 in the morning and also really delivery should start until 7 because if there's no one there to take the delivery then
you're going to have idling and if you have a big vehicle it's not a roadway that you want idling during morning rush or any rush hour time so the activities prior to 7 should only be passenger vehicle activity arriving on on the site
you know what I mean not um yeah sub contractor parking and things of that yeah um and uh you also note in here and I I I'm just for some reason I'm questioning this you have Monday through Friday uh 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Monday
through Friday and again that distinction you have to sort out exterior interior I'm not sure that you have the availability I don't I'm not sure they have the opportunity to work interior after a certain hour but um but you also have 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on Saturday I don't think it's allowed at
7:00 a.m. on Saturday I thought it was I was going to say the same thing I thought it was 8:00 a.m. on Saturdays 9 9 9 on Saturday so just check the hours that those are establish hours Chris it's nine okay um and I and I only have one other item your construction work or
parking you indicate that all your parking will be on site um and that's that's to be expected but I think you should just consider the fact that you may have some activities that won't allow you to be parking on site and just clarify that now certainly when you're
Paving you know there'll be nobody parking on site there'll be off site somewhere so I'm not saying you can't park off site I think you should just note that you know for all of the project you will park on site except for maybe some distinct activities that force you to not be able to park on site
I I don't want you to write a plan that you can't comply with you know what I mean so you may you may as well recognize now except for select activities yeah and and those those should be those should be identified well in advance sure just so just so the
neighbors yeah that's all I had okay yeah we can look it um just a couple more ornamental fence material we had talked about that a little bit last time I sent that back in um requests for no Disturbed buffer area
right away and property lines we added a couple notes just to clarify that that the limit of disturbance is just that and and kind of what we're approving so we we need the contractor to maintain that um I had both there kind of put some notes in here no disturbance Beyond
limit of work um I believe somewhere um there may even be a note in one of these that kind of clarifies that as well um and what will you be putting up for the no disturb to prevent is that like
Julia is Andy or or luk [Music] on I'm not seeing um okay oh wait there's luk hang on I believe they we had discussed some sort of a construction fence Yeah just something
that's inevitably somebody will say oh I didn't know that was the no buffer sound hi Chris so Luke did we put something in the plans about what how we were going to delineate the the limit of disturbance absolutely for the record
Luke to Stephano with bowler uh on the construction management plan we specifically called out a 6 foot high construction fence that would basically delineate the limit of work line perimeter protection under that a
secure a great great it's in there okay I just wanted to double check and then the last item I had thank you Luke was uh shade around the playground we did do a little bit of Rev grading
adjusted a little bit of the planting area there got four additional shade trees uh kind of on the South and West areas there um and then I submitted the shade structure for what the playground typically has and should have here so with that that was everything we
had talked about last time um like I said I think we've really gotten to a good place with this um something I didn't say earlier that I that I meant to is I do feel like all of us neighbors board Design Consultants this is probably the most effective and
efficient School we've put together um Gardener school has put together right I was going to ask for a review of us take a customer survey at the end one question on the guardo sorry that's all right is that painted or is that left
natural natural and we'll typically make sure it's it's sanded down just cuz we've been talking lately about kids like to run their hands on things so I we'll make sure it's got a smooth finish cool um I I you know I had a conversation
with one of our members and uh and we both agreed that um you have made the process easier for us too um not to take away at all from any of the attorneys that represent clients it does make a
difference when the client's sitting at the table and can actually have the discussion and negotiate you know uh Solutions sure you know while we sit here um and that I think has been really helpful because we've solved some of the concerns you know at the table with you
we don't always have that opportunity and it's likely because our the representative the legal representative doesn't always have that opportunity you know not because they don't want to but uh having you here having Josh available having bowler available it makes a difference so I appreciate that and I I
don't think it really saves anybody time if if we just stand here with legal people and have that conversation it's this at the same let's be careful we have great respect people that are here with us great respect you yeah okay so I guess the only other
thing that we're waiting for which I just was going to touch on is the a final letter the peer review um following up the um there were out a few outstanding items that you were addressing do you want to just talk about that for a minute where Luke do you want to talk about those remaining
items do you think there's a path here where we can get those wrapped up uh worked out with horley Wht um in the next week that's Chris did you ask did you ask me that yeah yeah I I I spoke
briefly with Andy earlier about the the the comments yeah no Andy and I discussed it and really the remaining horley Wht comments are they're very technical nothing that we have any issue with complying with they're all just you know add a note
here uh revise a detail type things so uh we would recommend if the board saw fit that uh these would all be resolved you know prior to the issuance of the building permit as a condition of the approval because again there's nothing
in the final letter from them that uh is any real concern to us okay all right I would yeah so it sounds like we have a few um a couple of documents to come back to
us um so it seems as if we need to continue the public hearings to be able to accept those documents but I don't see myself having any outstanding issues or comments after that just it'll be just a matter of receipt so that I think
we could close the public hearing next week if we if we get those documents in um okay yeah we'll work on the windows the stone I don't if everybody agrees with me on that but I agree with you Cheryl yeah okay and then the order of conditions do you
have somebody who's going to be preparing um or is that you mean the decision the decision and with the order of conditions do you typically no typically in P the town is prepared okay which we could use I think we could probably use the gardener school as a
temple don't look at me no no I think we should um it's just what you wanted get to we're short St so that was so what I was going to suggest is we do have four people here we have we have the garden
take a stab at it I'll take a stab might not get done by next week um what I was going to have when cheyen is better and feeling better um and if she's watching having her pull up what what our site our approval decision was for the
gardener school um and we also have the one from um what's you're using GD sorry the GD school I'm sorry there's so Sim The Goddard School the other school though that was on Blue Hill Little Sprouts Little Sprouts I think looking
at both of those I think cor probably drafted the one and Mary and you probably drafted the one U so those would be good good sample base so Johan so shouldn't we be having a lawyer do this at this point well they probably have an attorney I was going to say
probably have an attorney yeah do you have somebody that can draft it I guess I can I typically don't only because the towns have had a pretty boilerplate method for how they do it so
I would think right this would be my f six project and I've never been asked to draft it myself okay so yeah we we have some attorneys who typically come in with just we we ultimately will end up writing or amending right the summary at
the beginning and all that stuff minutes and which typically comes from your side and then we would just make sure that we're in agreement with the conditions um which I would do next week what I would ask from you is at least a list of all the documents that you think are the final documents and then the dates and
so we normally have that they were submitted let's say say it was August and it was ended four times you would have the original date the the list of the sheets and then each Amendment date on it so that gets so if you at least
put that together you know what I'll have when cheyen jul or Julia what we should do is similar to what we did with a construction management plan we sent you a sample of what what we look for in it so we can send you what our approved
um site plan approval for um those two preschools and you can see that documents that were and how it was formatted and what we would need to put into our our decision okay yeah cuz I have them here and there's no list of documents from what I can tell Maran there should be a list of
documents right usually when I write a decision I do I can't speak for what's in go back and look or we have recommendations for attorneys yeah and I have no problem doing that that would also that would help everybody to know exactly what's being
improved what's the latest what's the date on that document all of that so I can pull together that list no problem and it's helpful if somebody has a question when construction is underway and is that really what got approved and then at least it's it's easy to identify the
documents okay with dates and then we also want to track the amend amend exactly okay because the the site plans you those have been amended a few times right so what and what I was thinking is I was thinking of having Cheyenne draft it put it together I
think she's and then running it by Town Council I think we definitely need an attorney's um absolutely look looking it over and if Chris can supply the list of documents yeah um I think at least then we can compare that to what he thinks
are his final documents because exactly you know honestly the way we have the electronically all the documents they come in in a folder for a particular meeting and and so you know U you probably have the best tracking system
for what you think are the most current documents and then we can make sure that that consistent with what we what we have and think sure do you want me to include fence shop drawings all of that cut sheets okay everything yep and then
I'll I'll add on that list at the end whatever documents are being updated for next time correct yeah that's great so all right so are we ready to continue the hearing continue the hearing to uh Fe February 20th so I'll make a motion to continue the
public hearing for site plan approval 40 Blue Hill a parcel b-7 D5 to February 20th at 7:05 yep second all right so Julia will'll add
that to the um do we vote oh sorry yeah can just for clarity that's a zoom meeting that's not an in-person meeting it is a zoom meeting so we had we were scheduling it as a zoom easier only I appreciate you clarifying yeah it is yeah good good
sitting here alone Zoom you from here yeah so it'll be on Zoom okay so there's a motion is there a second already second sorry all right all in favor I thank you thank you thank you see you next week thanks you
thank you okay all right so moving on um Julia do you w to um just this is the discussion of the util budget okay do you have any information on that um the discussion is just basically
to decide how much you want to spend um because that PO has been tacked out so I I one of the things that I recall is uh that we had grant money
that had restrictions um and it had to be used for compliant zoning and then we had planning board funds so when you say the contract do you know Julia if that's
the how that contract is the fee was allocated does that mean they're out of the grant funding part of the contract or Just sh didn't mention spec because you know I don't recall how much we had left in our fiscal year
funding we have yeah because she did go through um and I think Juliet was that in the budget you gave me or is that for future the budget that I gave you um the util po has like the last bill that we
got from util we had to draw from our miscellaneous budget to pay half of it because we didn't have enough from which budget Julia I'm sorry what you said you had to draw from which
budget you had a draw from the 50,000 planning board right and how much how much did you have to draw from that uh I think it was 4,000 yeah it was a small amount okay so here's the 50 yeah so as as of J
at the beginning of January we pretty much had our whole we hadn't spent any money yet from our our budget so we've just dipped into it just a little bit so we do have um significant funding to to finish that
but um but they need a contract EXT but they need a contract extension so I almost feel like we should we I would like to discuss that when Cheyenne do you think we can discuss that next week and maybe have a recirculation of that I know we all discuss and approve the
contract but if we're going to extend it we should see if there's any modifications we want to make to it yep so and I think we shouldn't we should not wait until a month from now for that so I'd like to have that be discussed next I agree I think so
yeah so you're going to put put this on the agenda for the 20 yeah why don't we just so we can and their contract not just their budget but their contract okay good so it would be the same line out
discussion of U budget SLC contract okay great um and are you when you're ready to go to the next yep all right so that's good
all right are we ready so the next item we have is the MBTA Community zoning discussion um so this I just I put on because I I want it just it should always be on there because there's always going to be until we um are fully
compliant have this on so the zoning discussion so obviously there's um a select board meeting tomorrow morning which will give us more clear Direction I would say um and what what the select board's approach will be what we know
right now is we're still in the comment period with the regulations um we know that the law is legal and enforcable um by the by the uh AG um the regulation period just for those who are watching the there's an
open comment period I think the select board's talking about what comments they would like to submit um that comment period is up on the 20 21st of February so then the comment period will be closed and then we'll await the final uh
final regulations so then we have we have a time frame which Cheryl when you filled out um and submitted and I appreciate you're doing that um a draft action plan it um when the planning board met we agreed with all the sort of
all the time frame of all the dates that we were scheduled to make sure that we have compliance zoning um by July 14th um but before that deadline are we going to submit um comments to the select I know the slman
are I would like to talk about the comments too but can I can I just say that um I'm still in the dark a little bit about the meeting because I couldn't find a recording and there's no minutes yet so um did you see the like the draft
uh I saw what Cheyenne sent after but I haven't had benefit of knowing what the discussion was and so I wouldn't mind um a recap just so I'm not in the dark I had hoped to be able to watch the meeting on Milton Access TV but I
haven't been able to locate it so um and I asked Cheyenne if she could send a link and so I I I don't know maybe it's available now last I checked was yesterday but um the um I I do think the comment um
we it ends in the 21st we have an opportunity to comment I do think beyond what I think you discussed which was Rapid Transit aspect of the guidelines there are other aspects of the guidelines that I think we should comment on
um so I understand that you took a vote and you uh sent to the select board um an action plan um with an appendix that largely reflects what Mr dhy submitted um which is stating that uh we don't
believe that we're rapid transit or we don't even believe that we're adjacent um and that the the commuter rail capacity um is only dictated by the 15 units an acre but I don't think that's really been thought through very well what that exactly means in terms of
districts we haven't really looked at what does 15 Acres look like within a half a mile of the commuter rail stations and so um I think the public needs to to start hearing about that um and I think they need to hear about it soon just like the two speakers who
spoke earlier um I do I do think um that we've done some work on the rapid transit piece and I think we probably are pretty close to having something to take to the public and get their feedback on but I don't think we're anywhere close on something else whether
it's 10% whether it's 15% or whether it's something that's really five or 6% and I don't think that we have a luxury of waiting a month to start talking about that honestly so the question is will we uh well first of just to recap the just
real highlight an overview so we basically we started the meeting going through your draft first we wanted to go I wanted to make sure everyone went through um everything that you had put in because I thought you put in some some very good language some of the
housing initiatives that we're in we're um going through right now um I think we then we went to where we had been in our original our last time when we met and we were discussing the action plan where that where we were on
that draft um what we were we sort of synthesized some of what you had in there with your language but the um what we the reason why I think we ultimately decided not and the board can also weigh
in on this that we decided not to um at this time take a position on where um what um what type of community we are is because the reg we don't know the regulations are still in the comment
period and we don't have final regulations we have emergency regulations but those might NE those might not necessarily be the regulations that whatever zoning we put forth in July that those are the regulations so the regulations could change um there
was also the fact that um there was a meeting and and you might not have known this either because it was I found out like last minute that um our uh representative Wells and Bill Driscoll were going to be meeting with um the hlc
with the head um at Augustus so they met they met the the day after we were meeting and they were going to go in and talk to them about the fact that um and not to cuz Rapid Transit is is the
regulations so what what we were saying is what we know right now is what is in the statute and the statute language very explicitly says Subway it doesn't say any extensions that was hlc adding that language into their regulations but
so we we wrote something based on the fact that what we have is right now the regulations are not legal and enforcable um there's emergency regulations but what we know is what's in the statute so we wrote and that's why we didn't um we
didn't want to just randomly pick a category I think the majority of the board feels we should be if any if we are going to follow what is in the regulations and the regulations are properly promulgated and finalized that we would be an adjacent Community simply
by the fact that we do not have a Subway in Milton our trolley is by definition is is not a Subway I think Sean you even wrot read off what what the definitions were so that's where we were coming in we were saying you know and we were
trying to express that we we intend to be fully compliant a with the law and then you know depending on where the regulations so fall so as far as I understand the emergency regulations um are legal and are in effect so0 days to
say that they're um that we don't have anything I think is not quite correct and then I and then yes within 90 days we'll have regulations and we don't know that they're going to find us not to be Rapid Transit um and then the question
is do we accept that as a town and you know if we yeah and as a board we set our responsibility was to prepare zoning um that would be compliant with Rapid Transit and would be compliant with adjacent community and what you
submitted was not even adjacent community in what you suggested based on the statute so now we're talking about a third option and there's no criteria for that option there's nothing in the guidelines for that option nor is there
really for adjacent Community because hlc hasn't defined us as that so so we're now at a period where the select board is making some determination tomorrow and they're also they've also opened a door for the
discussions with hlc h LC has said that they would um they would be open to a conversation with Milton on looking at um a a potential possible adjacent Community I don't know where that
discussion will go but I I was you know I I think we're going to know a lot more within the next week or two so you know I think you both were at the the meeting the other night as I as I was right and
chair Wells said they they still said that we're considered Rapid Transit so you know I think um it's not going to be something that it's going to be decided at this table so we need to decide how we're going to
advance zoning right and we need U assistance um and we need the Public's input I I really think um that we can't chart a path um that doesn't bring people up to speed them
you know to where where things are right um and and I think we've been getting a lot of input we've been getting a lot of emails so I'm but the question is we there's there's nothing that we can feed
the public right now until which I would love to do I'm I'm that's I'm pushing ahead with the East Milton overlay I would I love the idea of having public input but until you know we have people who are coming and saying the regulations are law right now and and
it's it's very I think it's been very confusing I think the Adu process has been very confusing I think the MBTA the fact that the the regulations were found by the SJC not to be legal and enforceable I don't even know if they are properly promulgating right now the
new the new guidelines the new regulations because they're asking for an action plan and this was a big piece of our discussion they were asking for Action Plan before the comment period is over so does that mean they're just ignoring comments they want they wanted
us to submit an action plan based on regulations which have not been finalized and have not been properly promulgated so we have this is you know I would love to move forward with something I would love to have a definite this is what we are um so but
we don't have but but we do have something if you what we were doing in the zoning that passed previously looked at having some areas of lower density and some areas of higher density averaged out to 15 units
an acre but what was what you've described in the action plan as meeting the the statute is 15 units an acre and within a half a mile of a community rail station it's taking what the statute says what does that look like where is
that which properties are affect Ed which property owners need to be up to speed on what that means because we can't wait until zoning is written and then take it to the public and say by the way this is the best plan I hope you like it they need to be a part of the
discussion Absolut right from and we can't wait him oh no another month to decide not move forward without having discussion on yes on that and in in many ways I think um what we know is in the statute but it would be almost an
adjacent Community because we would get to choose where those where we put it where we put a higher density statute says a half a mile of the commu station it doesn't give you flexibility the guidelines are what give you the flexibility but if you look at um the
Blue Hill La the Blue Hill lav commuter rail um half mile actually extends into one of our districts which is yeah well into unidy house so we've already looked that so we it also goes into Capen which
is the Elliot Street quarter the BL Hills Parkway quarter y so we have we have already started looking at um in some Zoning for that area so I think that's a we've already have a a good little start but the problem
is if we go if you follow the logic of you're only going by the statute 15 units an acre what does that start to look like on those parcels because it's different now you're take single family lots and you're saying you're going to reone those for 15 units an acre that's
a lot different than the L Street Corridor where it's single family lots and it's capped at three or perhaps if we change this to four um yeah so and then does that mean you're going to bump up on quitty house
because you don't have to you can only you can keep it at 15 but you're not being a I don't think you can pick and choose which other the guidelines you you think are that's why I'm that's why I'm not why we're not doing that we did that's why our plan at this time was was
not to to until we have finally properly prolongated so it's not to work on zy until the 90-day period's over no I think I well I think we'll know um if the discussions with the
state how the state discussions go um I think we'll need we need some we still need some clarity um on if these are regulations that are going to be finalized we probably the 21st I don't know how soon we'll have them but I would say they're going to be finalized
I don't know how soon after the comment period that they'll be finalized I they will be finalized um I just don't know how soon after the comment period that they'll be finalized um I I feel like it's still soon was the Adu finalized after the
comment period it was fast like yes and I would predict this would be the same yes yes we we we could work on a 10% plan yeah from what we understand um that's the discussion that um is being
had with hlc and we were directed by the select board to work on a 10% plan I think that would be yeah I think that would and I think we could pull that together pretty quickly um
um I think again something will the pro the regulations something will will I think um we should work on a 10% plan but we should also work on the 25% as we talked about and I think um coming back to well I really feel feel like this
public part of this should happen sooner rather than later um and the and we have to figure out what the best way to have that public input I don't think these meetings are the best way when you have a public comment period um you know when Tim was doing the
zoning he had monthly um sessions somewhere in person and somewhere on Zoom I I think it would be good to have an in-person uh session um and maybe at the council in aging where something could be projected maybe with maps that
people could look at you know and and understand the areas in which they're being discussed um but I I think we should have somewhat of a plan yeah I think we should have a 10% plan and then show it show that and we can talk about we did with East Milton Square we had a public forum we
spent a lot of time on it now we're going to have another one after the zoning is done not that I can't be tweaked but the the issue is people in have made a lot of comments that we we didn't get comments on the zoning that P
town meeting until very late um and people became very concerned because that once they understood what it was they they didn't some people didn't like the choices that had been made but they weren't didn't feel as if
they had an opportunity in advance to weigh in so when we say adjacent Community does that mean it's Tethered to the trolley is it tethered to stationing community is it can go
anywhere in town it doesn't have to be within a half mile of of the Charley but I think it should be for commuter rail or Comm commuter rail right so but you I I reread the
guidelines today before I came and those districts need to be something that hlc is going to approve and their preference is close to the public transportation so we need to have have
conversations with folks about where so what do you mean that hlc's preferences to keep it near the commuter commuter rail but it can go anywhere in town yeah I don't think it can go anywhere in town if you I think an adjacent Comm the way I understand it is it can but so you're
confusing this is kind of the problem let's just focus on the statute the statute and I know I've been saying this for you know three years and I think that's a great starting point focus on the statute it's let's look at
the areas within the half a mile of our Comm of our commuter rail and then um we get that down so we've met the terms of the statute and then we look at the next bump up if we are determined to be an
adjacent Community then we can bump it up it's easier for us to kind of agree on a smaller amount cuz I think we all have a pretty good understanding where we would like to see some development in town There's opportunities in
town start with a smaller amount and then slowly add to it I don't understand you know how we're going to determine how we're compliant without fitting the criteria that has been established by hlc and the
guidelines other than if what you're talking about is a flat 15 units an acre and I think that needs to be sort of UND um one thing I if we think about other comments to
hlc which is a letter you know what comments would have to go in next week um what we could commment on really is what we learned from the rapid transit work that we did and you know I
personally think that we ran into challenges with the minimum subdistrict size of five acres yes that's was going to be one of my comments and I um if the board doesn't plan to submit a comment letter I I do plan to submit comments myself um that would ask for
that to be lowered um we also I think heard concerns about um not losing businesses and and impacting our business districts and there's a cap on how many units can be
in a mandatory mixed use district and I I think we should comment on that and that we should we think that we should be allowed uh more uh and then um to your point Jim about other places in in town have a
comment uh about wanting to be thoughtful about where those places can be and I think um you know being in a location which has access to MBTA bus line uh and other amenities if they're
if they're not as great as some places like East mton square but at least amenities that those um you know I don't know if you all recall but um Tim had been given Authority by the
selectboard to ask if gred AV would be acceptable and East Milton Square would be acceptable but he ALS but he didn't ask about Randolph AV sites if those would be acceptable because those were further away and so I a comment that I
would like to have go back is we we should get assurance that those could be acceptable locations um for reasons that we think that there's opportunity for some development on some of those Parcels so the five acre piece would get to the
paper mill it would get to two granded a because those by themselves are smaller than 5 acres and then we didn't get to count all of what we would like to in the in the business district so I think U that could be
quite a beneficial comment and then this other piece about the locations um I have two thoughts I either if we should find out if the select board are submitted comments because I think we we don't want to have conflicting comments
coming from various B different boards so either I would say possibly submit your comments to Nick Milano well Nick just said sent us an email yeah oh they uh the select board is submitting comments and Nick's asking for okay
comments well he said that we we could either submit together or separately yeah there's there's a letter that he sent that's drafted and he's asking for comments did he include that his letter in that email he did yeah all right so I think that maybe
um we should send our comments to him I don't mind you Cheryl sending as an individual either um if you would want to your own comment letter and and also I'd like to increase our affordability MH um because right now the
guidelines and they require you to% to pay a consultant an economic development consultant to verify that you can do that it's it would be nice not to have to pay more money to Simply increase it within a certain you know margin because
the crisis is for affordability and we all know of disc discuss that this has nothing to do with affordability um and we are desperately trying to create more housing that is Affordable so I I think that they should
be willing to increase it from 10% up to something higher also we've talked about um smaller um if we're allowing for smaller development um we've talked about how
there's um not enough um profit for the developers to um do one affordable unit if it's a three if it's three units um there's not enough money in it so they're not going to do it so the other
question is in lie of um getting a full affordable unit maybe there could be a payment to our affordable housing trust and I think it should be tied to um um like the assess ment of it or the
sale of it a certain percentage not just a dollar amount but um and a percentage in actual yeah so then it could fluctuate the the the the the um contribution the the contribution to the
affordable housing trust is really dependent on what the sale price is so if the market is a little bit softer we're not sort of um hindering the developer from maximizing their
asset and if the um the market is a little bit stronger then they're contributing a higher percentage to our um affordable housing trust well you know that um them they cap it at 20% with even with the
economic development study in part because they don't want to make it financially inviable to do these project projects and you know the differential on a market rate unit to
sell versus a affordable unit is last I spoke was to connell's at 131 L it was a half a million dollar differential so if you're going to make up that half a million dollars you need a lot of places to make it up and a lot of units and
that's why you see the the 40 BS try and push as many units as they can because they're trying to make up that differential so you know I think whatever percentage I think this is something we did talk about uh when we were working on this Z to try and get
some kind of a contribution in for the smaller uh development so I think it's a good uh thing to to put out there to them so I would send your comment I think you should send your comments to I think anyone should maybe forward your comments to Nick um with Cheyenne being
out and having the flu right now and the deadline for the comments being the 21st I you know I don't I I think it would be um more efficient to send our comments or draft our own letter if if
folks feel inclined but uh to send comments and and add it to Nick's yeah because we won't have enough time to meet if we're meeting on the 20th and then we have to vote for like an official planning board letter is that what your fear is is we're not going to have enough time I well I think their
their plan is to vote their comment letter before then I think his his they're going to vote voted on the 18th okay so we don't really have an option so we have to just send it as individual we if we had we could discuss a letter on the 20th if we wanted to send one in on the
21st if they have a draft If he if if he has a dra he does it's pretty yeah I mean but if he has our comments put into a final draft we could vote on that so my only concern is if we send in individual comments um are are comments actually
going to end up in the letter and the question is whether they're planning board comments or individual planning board member comments and so um yeah because if it's individual comments the likelihood of them having to accept them and put them
in their their letter they wouldn't have to well they wouldn't have to in either case I think whether they're but at least it's a stronger I intend on signing mine Jim Davis planning board member town of Milton your comments
yeah I just would hope that they would incorporate our individual comments knowing that we are under our time constraint that we don't have a meeting before their next meeting I it looks like their comments are focused
on I seen it when did he send it I haven't read it but I just did A6 p.m. tonight it's probably best that that letter is from Nick to the select board and the planning board it's probably best that we don't talk about that letter much more in this meeting well this is a public meeting and a public
document it's not executive session I don't remember if my batteries died I can't read exactly how we uh how he had written it but yeah I mean it'll be a public document once it's filed too um but I think if you don't feel as if we can come to come some a consensus about
what the comments should be as a board in time for theirs which I don't see how we could for their inclusion by the 18th that means we'd have to decide tonight so then it's either we do our own comment letter or we do individual comments to hlc I think that's really
the option I don't think there's really an option for us to have a agreed upon comments to the select board but if there's anything that we see that we think is important to add to Nick's letter to that I think you would or would we send
our comments to Cheyenne and then Cheyenne collects them and then she sends them saying these of the plany board comment so it looks a little bit more official than us just sending individual except that they wouldn't
be official discussed or correct we couldn't discuss it um it wouldn't have been discussed in a correct we' have to it would be just individual comments it would not be a board comments at that point right and then we would re we could review it on the
20th I just want to remind you guys that Monday is a holiday yeah so so if we wanted to do our own letter I think then what you say makes sense Maggie is to circulate comments to Julie and Cheyenne to to put
together and we could and on the 20th We could decide whether we could agree on those or not and submit a planning board letter or then if we can't then IND individually you submit our comments sound
good um all right so everyone was send comments to Cheyenne and Julia and then put those all together we send them to Julia and then she edits them and then we get them back and vote on them
or no no no we don't have Julia she edits them and then just sends them in she I don't even know I don't even know if she edits them okay we just send it to her so we send our comments she puts it in the form of a letter or we all send letters
and then she sends them all at put in a form in a and just say these are the comments I've received from planning board members and then submit it to the select board okay okay do we also reserve the right to write a r letter yeah you certainly can
as an individual um I don't even think she would send it to the the select board probably will have already submitted their letter though yes yeah I think I think that's it would go directly to hlc so what we would I think if you we wouldn't have time yeah to
have um unless you want to send comments but if they're going to vote on Monday and I mean Tuesday and Monday is a holiday I mean I think giving us a day on the comment letter is probably just informational at this point even though
the email says submit so um oh that's unfortunate we weren't included prior so but I do think you know if we think about the things that we are more uniquely experienced with
like we talked about earlier with with these guidelines because if they come back and and keep us Rapid Transit at least we will have commented on the things that we found challenging in applying the guidelines here and I agree it will
improve our ability to do the zone if they make those changes very much so yeah okay so I mean I think it's stronger if it comes from us as a board that way than individually and you know people if we have things that we don't
agree on that we want to stand individually fine but at least on the things that we think that we can agree on like I think that what you said about affordability I think what I said about the other things it seems like we have a agreement on those if there's anything
else I think hlc would be hard pressed to to consider individual comments they need a board so I agree with you it should be board comments you know I'm I'm not sure how they're ever going to you know deal with individuals you know
but and I think you know just my own opinion I mean at some point I think they so can we just take a vote right now that we support adding um a quick we um increase in affordability a
decrease in um District size the um and cont increasing the cap on the units that are allowed in a mandatory mixed use and allowing the subd districts to be along an area served by an MBTA bus line and less than
five acres yeah less than five acres and a monetary contribution on the on the less than 10 I think we capped it well I mean we had said that we thought that the affordability would kick in at 10 units I think that's right so I think we said anything less than 10 we' like a contribution so so those are like five
things for those five things we just did you get that Julia Julia more Julia um we can send them to you too I've already started to write the four the three that I mentioned okay um I was planning to put a little map from one of
uil's presentations in to kind of graphically you know kind of show MH so they can visualize the the constraints that we were up against and show that we were actually studying them you know like that the mapping would show that we studied them so I'm I'm close to to that
um so if you wanted to write something up on the affordability I think we could have a draft ready to review and vote on next week if you wanted I think that would does that sound good Julia
yeah but we then we need to submit it by Tuesday no we're going to submit separately we're going to okay you want to submit separately okay that's the planning board will do their okay that's and I think well the things that we just talked about agreeing to um I think the
select board you can see what their letter says but they will probably address different things right they're probably more big picture it does I I don't know how what we just talked about is going to fit into the letter that I read I just don't think it will so we should keep ours ours are more technical
because that's the level that and there those are more of an overview I think they'll show that we've we've been grappling with how to comply and I I don't think that's a bad thing to demonstrate that that we have yeah good okay okay we are in agreement
on that so so can I just wanted lastly just agreement on what we're going to when we're going to engage the public a time [Applause] frame I would like to um we know we have
town meeting come up we know we have East Milton Forum coming up we're going to have a a May town meeting so I I just don't know think we should get something on a calendar my my an opinion that I'll
offer it it would be the engagement we had from the public happened after they had something to consider right something something that was developed that they could consider Yeah Tim had a monthly the
whole time before we had any zoning to consider and it it just brought people up to speed and you know I think there's a lot of uncertainty about
where Milton is in this right now and so um I don't think we have to show any districts we can we can basically say where we think we are what we think we're going to do next and how we want to address some two different paths
um knowing that the outcome is still of what our classification may still be open I I have my doubts about that myself but I think what we could say is you know these are the the two directions and we should put some
parameters on what we think how we would approach it and we would have to discuss that I don't think we have to decide that tonight but if we set a forum up for a month or so from now we will have time to discuss it we were going to have U do a presentation in November they
were preparing a presentation for that and it was going to just bring people up to speed on what we had looked at to date there so we also have to remember Tim um had those meetings because nobody knew anything like nothing no one even
knew MBTA zoning so a lot of it was just getting a lot of people still don't getting caught up including like that last election I think a lot of people know a lot more so I think we're a little bit further along in the process than we were definitely further along
but however I do think we should have um a forum should it be the end of March or should it be the end you know if we have March 6 is East Milton and then the next we have a
meeting the next week after March 6 so maybe how how would we have Zoning for town meeting for for something in July or even may I mean May or July if we don't get the process going and so I
my feeling is if we we have to you know I spoke about this a lot in the last year that we need to have a map out of schedule so why don't we say early April we'll think about early to mid April um
so it gives us March it gives us march to at least come up with don't forget their school vacation attentive April so after school vacation no I think it should be before how would you how would you even have anything ready for before July if you don't even get engaged the
public until the end of April so if you look at May and June you could have two public forums in May and June so that's a total of four public forums just well that's just um you would have to have written by then
you would I mean you would have to have submitted it before then if you're going to have a hope of getting it in in July you need to get I think I mean we're we should be looking at the end of March I
think at that point all we would be able to is all the different districts that we've potentially looked at that is that what you're wanting to go in but people are going to say well what is your what are you going to do with those districts what is your plan what I feel like I
want to yeah I no because here's the thing if you said the we can adjust what was previously approved as a rapid transit Community by taking some Zone capacity
out of East Milton and putting it where one option is to put some more in the ell Street quter another is to put it in a district on Randolph a you don't have to have everything ironed out that's a general concept what do you think about that concept you might have people in
the ellot street court and wonder well how much more and what does that look like and so we'd have to have some answers but we do because we've looked at it so we should work it out as a board first so for example I think the the 25% rapid Transit we have options
for and we can take that to the community what we don't have the options for really are the adjacent or the statute so we would need to to spend some time thinking about that between now and then but even then we don't have
to have it all ironed out we could say here's the areas that are within a half mile of the commuter rail the largest one is near Blue Hill la which overlaps with the trolley and we think this is a good area to concentrate and just start the conversation with people before we
say yeah that's it this is the district and we used 20 grand of U's time and we we have to backtrack if we could get as if we could get as far along with 10% as we have with 25% I think then we'd be in
a good place you're right about 25% we know what our options are we've discussed some of the changes that you just mentioned we we're we we've done plenty of work on 25 we've done no work on 10 none we've done we you you well we know
where the zones are within the commuter rail and I said in the email that I sent all of you in where that action plan was attached I think we should focus around the Blue Hill LA because of the overlap with the trolley and I think we could if
we're meeting with u um in on the 13th is that when they're coming next we haven't scheduled them yet um well we should schedule them because we can start talking to them about that area in the paper mill in the
paper mill that's fine too um so I if we set ourselves a goal of a meeting then we have to we have to think from the end out if we're really going to try and hit July we need to jump on that's why asking earlier about waiting a month to
have a meeting because we need to start jumping on that alternative option and then have public input 10% yeah yeah yeah my point is uh I have no issue having a public forum but we can't
show them what 10% looks like if we have a public forum we we what are we going to say well where we where do you we this Board needs to discuss where that's my point that's all I'm saying that's why I'm saying we can't wait no what you're saying is you want to have a public forum before we have
something to show people we can have a public forum the questions going to be can you tell us what the 10% plan looks like and what are we going to say what I'm saying is we set a date for a public forum and we work to get something to show for a 10%
plan for that for we've had over a year that's fine we haven't done anything what's what calendar would you like to do that on we have a month that we're talking about not having a meeting right and I'm asking when 's coming next and they're not scheduled in fact we have we have to talk about their contract next
week so if we talk about their contract next week I'm thinking we could have util come on the 13th and discuss and have them come prepared to start sure working to we could probably almost if we get the person who can do things in
live time we could get a significant amount done on the meeting on the 13th on a 10% plan point is I I think we absolutely should do that before so we can show the public something right so I think we can ask
them to work on and I'm happy to ask Cheyenne to schedule she said when and this is all that I mean it's been sort of U um with her now being out but I I just didn't know what we were going to hear from the select board and what you know
what we were going to ask you T and I just didn't want to start spending their money and time with until we have it we don't know their availability either so I I would ask if if Cheyenne's able to get in touch with them before the next week's meeting yeah that we we can see
what their schedule looks like and ask if they can begin to work on looking at the area that the overlap between the commuter rail and the matapan trolley in the generally in the bluehills parkway area um I have felt that we really
didn't study the parkway area as thoroughly as we should have before and I think um we can ask them to start looking at that before and they can bring something to us the next time so that we don't lose all the time in
between I was going to exactly so I think that's I think having them come that that date would be would be great and we could have it um yeah so I don't think a whole 10% plan should be around the Blue
Hills we discuss that no I get it I get it but I don't want I think we'll B based on some of our options that we've been looking at exploring that is one of the options but yeah it's just the it was the largest area and it it's an overlap of two Transit assets so it seems a good place
to start and but there's also Extra Space Storage which is great the whole village there's we already know all of those though what we could do with those is I'm saying if what we want to present as a I think that would be an option but but let's you know try to see how far
they could get in pulling something together but I I hear what you're saying we should have them definitely explore that because that's an area we haven't fully maybe looked at closely enough yeah my feeling is if you look at catch's law and you look at Granite AB North and you look at the village and
you look at Elliott Street by the time you get to Blue Hills Parkway if you include uny house I mean you're there you're at 10% well all right to do it tonight yeah just did it we're at 10:00
so at 10 after 10 so I think that's great so I will reach out we'll find out U's availability um and and ask them to come and if they yeah I'll I'll have them I'll we'll put out some dates
so and I you know I I don't want to keep adding other dates but if they couldn't come that week of the 13th we we could consider having just an MBTA that's what we should do meeting we should do on on the week before and and
maybe take the sixth on you know and say let's just do have see if they're available on the sixth um and just do mvta only and if we do that they can't do the if they can't do the 13th and if we do that you know we can let the public know that there's going to be
ample opportunity for them to listen learn and provide comment in advance of a bigger public forum because the problem that people have is when it's a piece on the agenda they don't know when it's going to be if
it is it at 8:00 or 10:00 and how much time it's going to be devoted to it it's hard to get people to put it into their calendar if they know it's a meeting that's dedicated to the topic then I think it's much easier agre makes sense yeah okay all right
so by Maggie great thank you so much that was a good discussion um because certainly we we will be compliant um by July we'll be done thank you Maggie have a good night that's good good night Maggie
night okay and so the last item on our agenda is the the nursery special permit discussion um oh this is our public hearing is closed so we're I'm thank you sorry about that the public hearing is closed
on this um so we have our um sort of the draft and Cheryl had some edit Julia did you something yeah talking to her that Julia yeah I think somebody was just talking to her
okay yeah sorry do you want me to bring up the um permit is that helpful we all have a copy now so actually um chery do you want to go through I for um for the public it would be um beneficial
to have it on the screen and then um pull it up Julia I I do have one question and I have one comment but whenever you guys are ready so the yellow is where I had a question and the Brad you know editor
where I'm I'm I changed made a couple couple changes we may have a similar question all right go ahead you ask first okay yeah I this this is just I think writing it in a way that's reflective of how it should be written
so under findings which is section four let you go over to paragraph C um and in yellow which charl you highlighted and the Restriction that the business cannot be
sold to any new owners including the children of Maggie and Josh Oldfield I think it should just say Maggie the children of Maggie or Josh Oldfield because I don't think it's likely that Maggie and Josh Oldfield are having
children but also I had a question about that not not so much so um direct is yours mine had to do with let me see I do think that language is necessary I mean oh yeah we have an attorney here that you know someone could question
that later and say well well I even question the existence of the sentence in there because under on page nine under eight transfer of property it says that in the event that the property and or landscaping business
shall be transferred to a third party that that that seems to mean that you can sell it because in that case then that third party has to seek uh to continue operation of
landscaping business on the property then a new application is required so if that's the case then how can you say it can't be sold elsewhere well well I mean it does say I'm sorry if you're there on eight
in the event that the property into a landscaping business so the property could be sold right but the landcaping business could too in that [Music] sentence so um Can can I just ask a clarifying question then of um Maran
about whether there's a inconsistency in these two um Provisions do you see that as a cons inconsist first provision just um draws attention to the fact that very limited permit that only it's only able to be
used by the children of Margaret and Robert old field and those children who are currently using the perm of Maggie and and joshu field so the there's no one eligible to use this permit after
Maggie and Josh Oldfield decid they no longer want operate the Landscaping bus but if they sold the business somebody else could apply for a permit because this particular a microphone please
sorry this particular permit is limited by the original Nursery permit the nursery permit was issued personally to Robert and Margaret Oldfield so you so there's no the way this bylaw is written the way the Landscaping bylaw is written it's tied
to 2012 operation of a landscaping business and it's tied to the way that landscaping business and and Nursery business was permitted in 2012 the permits for the nursery were issued many years ago but they were issued
personally to the parents because of the very sensitive I think because of the sensitive location of this business and so that limitation on the nursery permit becomes a limitation on this permit on on the Landscaping permit and so the
reality is that you cannot continue this landscaping business business beyond the either well I say the working life of Maggie ofield of of any child of Margaret and um Robert Oldfield so then so is maybe so then is
this this a the other language the second paragraph that's taken directly from the language in the 2016 special permit okay so it's just general language saying that you know if someone does want to buy the business or they want to operate the nursery they have to
apply for separate another permit except that it turns out in this case there isn't going to be anybody who's eligible to apply for it and I think it's everyone to realize that well that's why it's confusing to me that it
it it implies in on page nine Section 8 that it can be done well that second that's the second paragraph right the trans says I get my glasses um the second paragraph says but they have to be eligible to apply the permit but
then you're saying that nobody's eligible so well that's true so it's just seems confusing to me now I I aware of those two sections and I realize you might find them confusing and if you'd like to you could take out the first you know whatever take out the first one refers
specifically to Maggie and Josh um it's just an interesting fact about this permit that it it is not something that can continue indefinitely well should we should we just take out the transfer of property I think we should just take out that whole section transfer of
property property cuz that's going to be up to the yeah it I mean well first of all you can take it out because this this what you're doing here is you're incorporating by reference all of the findings and all of the conditions in the 2016 special permit right there are
you've already Incorporated so if you prefer not to just not to include that paragraph and it is confus I I understand that okay thank you and since we didn't list everything in the 2016 permit here the question would be why did you choose to list that right right it makes it work all right thank
you all right so the other thing that take it and take it I say while you're here just because another just what I thought seemed contradictory um on page three number seven it says there are no Wetlands on the premises and then it continues and
then on page seven letter H it says the wetlands delineation and drainage plan remains in compliance Etc so if there's no Wetlands on the premises then isn't it just a drainage plan well the plan is a wetland if it's
a Wetlands delimination plan in drainage that's what it's called um but but if there's no Wetlands then there should be nothing on that plan that's related to Wetlands if there's no truly no Wetlands on the premises well there could be Wetlands off the premises is there something okay all right because there's
a lot of drainage that comes onto this property from property above all right um so I and okay all right that um that's fine then that's the reason that is a little bit okay contradictory yeah it was again just confusing but I I
understand it could be something off property all right thank this this is testimony that was given at the he um by the Yeah so if you you know you can leave it out if you want but it was testimony given it okay okay all right so then on page if
you want to go through my my um on page um five um the letter was signed by the building commission Building Commissioner yeah and our intern Building Commissioner and then on
page nine um we had this like being clear about the engineer um in other permits yeah I S I thought the same thing when I read this
too so just is it licensed or registered which is the is it do you know which term is right or are they interch I always think of myself as a registered architect but I guess I'm licensed to practice in in uh Massachusetts and other states right yeah so I don't know
if it's interchangeable or not you know this is the language we had in the memory care I think okay then we'll leave it alone or definitely in another permit and in our site plan of approval yeah um and then I thought in C here
that um I know this was something of concern to neighbors so I'm just going to read what this provision is about the these are the decision with some of the
conditions um and as said the conditions in the other permits are all included by reference and then this provision so I'm just going to run through these because um of public interest a it says by July
1st of 2025 the applicant shall have their drainage system inspected by their choice of either their engineer who shall be a Massachusetts licensed civil engineer or a town of Milton engineer the inspecting engineer shall attemp
test that the drainage system is operating as designed by providing a letter to that effect to the planning board prior to application for any renewal of this special permit the applicant shall again have their drainage system inspected by their choice of either the town engineer or
their own engineer do we need to make that same change here shall be licensed you think you might as well put it I yeah I would say um so I Julia if you can just copy it down
to that the next who shall be a Massachusetts licensed civil engineer wanted to go where we're copy copy it okay and then put it down let's see one two 3 four five lines down from
there after the words their own engineer yep right there after that yeah and the inspecting engineer shall attest that the drainage system is operating as designed by providing a letter to that effect to the planning board so what this does is by July 1st of this year and then at the renewal um
times the uh again so that's what we spoke about but that's included there and then in letter B the applicant shall remove posts remaining from the relocation of the sound attenuation f to ground level C any Evergreen Landscaping
that is in poor condition along the Parkwood Drive Lot line shall be replaced with similar plantings at the next available growing season such that the plantings provide visual screening and dust control is it only Evergreen plantings though or is
it plantings in general I think I think it's all Evergreen Landscaping okay because it's designed to um it's designed to block view all year round so that that's my recollection anyway and so that's why it's specifically
Evergreen it doesn't just mean tall trees it can mean smaller bushes but they're Evergreen um and then D this special permit is for a term of three years from the date of this decision I just have a thought just because it we don't have
Clarity on size of these plantings now maybe similar plantings means not only similar in plant species but similar in size but for the benefit of this do you think we should say that they should be replaced with similar
plantings of similar size of similar size or greater um sure well I thought of that I mean what if arbori grow to be 20 ft High how you going to replace a 20t high arbori that's true too you know I mean things are I mean I walked back there things are growing pretty well langage
was in the 2019 renewal permit again to provide a little clarity about when you had to replace plantings yeah again those find those conditions are Incorporated by reference into this decision but because this is a specific
topic of discussion during your hearing it's a specific condition and it brings attention to the fact that there were complaints that some plantings along that lot line have died or are not in good condition and that they must be replaced by the next planting season so
the issue about exactly what they should be what is it's actually in the is in the original it's in the conditions for in 2019 that it can be something similar and the reason for that is you might plant one thing in 2016 it turns out doesn't do that well in that shady
location you shouldn't have to plant the same plant over and over again and have it die you want to plant something that's pleasing in the sense that it provides the protection and is nice to look at and so that's why you say similar you don't say exactly the same and you don't say exactly the same size
either because you're planting something new and it's going to grow and I thought the clarifying language here is we want to make sure it provides a screening and dust yeah so right that's that implies a certain size too doesn't certain size and a certain closeness and certain how
filled out it is right yeah that's probably that's probably better than any other stipulation on size because then if it if something else dies then and it doesn't provide screening then they need to that makes sense put it back in okay
that makes sense so I you want to get rid of the uh similar size or greater yes I think so and then we want to eliminate the transfer property yeah the whole the whole paragraph there's no there's no
section anymore you want all this G yes yes okay and then you can remove the highlights that I put in I think in a few places Julia [Music]
[Applause] [Applause] yeah it's okay so that's good did did anybody else have any you guys hit the what I you guys um address the all right so then will you
take a motion Meredith yes I would entertain a motion all right I'll make a motion um to approve the um special permit for landscaping business use and site plan approval for 270 Hillside Street and0 and 24 Forest
Street um Joshua Oldfield and Maggie Oldfield applicants um uh as written in the decision um reviewed and edited tonight I'll second that okay before we take a final vote did we make are we
sure on page five that we put in Building Commissioner in there Julia did you catch that I just oh yeah we want to make sure that's I just interim building Comm inter yes interim Building Commissioner rather than inspector there's some other
I yes it's in there okay that was that was from your okay great and then we'll UNH highlight the the other accept all the changes and accept all the Chang yep all right so we have a motion in a second I just wanted to make sure
we yeah I mean if you want to just just I think be before we sign it we can just make sure that those things are in in Incorporated [Applause] properly okay so motion as second um
then a vote all in favor I I great thank you all thanks M how will that that decision do we need to come and sign it at some point we'll need to come sign yeah all right and Julia will let us know when it's ready to Signature yes
and it has on the back of the decision at the bottom bye thank you good night at the bottom it's it's just the four of us signing yes and but we'll come in and sign okay so I don't know if we'll have it um we'll have maybe at the next
meeting next meeting maybe next meeting we could possibly sign it so um I can print it out right now if you want um because the next meeting is remote are you are you in the office Julia yes yeah yeah yeah let's sign it before we leave
do it if you if you don't mind Julie that'd be great I don't think talk about efficient tonight you okay all right good night um yeah Julia that's great if we can print it um and then I would entertain a motion to adjourn I'll make a motion to adjourn
the meeting second second it all in fav by he [Music] okay
[Music]