--------- Good evening and welcome to the July 7th meeting of the select board. Sorry, it's July 8th today. Um, please join us uh in standing if you can for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Do you want to grab the the sign sheet? So, we're going to start u with public
comment and um as Nick uh retrieves or Mr. Milano retrieves our um signage sheet, just want to say a couple of words. Um over the weekend, we had a couple of serious incidents in Milton. Uh a a traffic crash on Randolph A and
we also had a shooting that happened down at the Milton Landing. Um we are going to uh on both of those matters because they happened after we posted our agenda. We're not going to be able to talk about them in detail tonight. Uh but we will hear from some citizens and
uh want to share that we've asked uh on the crash side for meetings with the Department of Transportation. And on the uh shooting side, the landing committee is going to be meeting next week at 8:30 a.m. We're in conversations with uh the Milton Police Department, Dexter
Southfield, uh and other and not Dexter was involved in the shooting, but they have a presence at the landing. So, that work is underway. I just wanted to say that before we got started with um with citizens comment. So, our first name on our list is uh Mr. Pariser Parisser from
um 88 Work. Thank you and uh good evening. My name is Ken Pariser and I live at 88 Warf Street and thank you for the opportunity to share my concerns about the events of the early morning on July 6th. My family
has been part of the Milton community since 1985. Our children and grandchildren attended Milton Public Schools and have enjoyed the town's parks and amenities for decades. Two years ago, we downsized, my wife and
I, and moved to Milton Landing to stay close to our family, all of whom still live in Milton. Our condominium overlooks the Neponet River Basin and Wararf. In the early evening, we often hear the cheerful sounds and voices of teenagers
enjoying the riverside at sunset. But as the night deepens, the voices change. Cars gather at the rear of the parking lot and behind the tent. The tone of the voices shifts from light-hearted to
harsh, often punctuated by arguments and raised voices. When I'm awakened by the commotion, I frequently see vehicles coming and going. While I can't say for certain what's taking place, it's clear it's not
boating or fishing. The pace of this activity has noticeably increased and several neighbors have contacted the Milton police regarding the disturbances and the response has been commendable. The area is cleared, but only
temporarily with groups returning that night or the following day. Until recently, the disruptions have been worrying but not dangerous. Sadly, none of us are surprised that the situation has escalated into something
far more serious and nearly deadly. I'm not here to tell the Milton police how to curtail this activity, but I am here to insist that a plan of action be created and implemented quickly before an innocent bystander is
wounded or killed. I don't have the expertise to determine whether a gate preventing cars from entering the warf after dusk, a surveillance camera monitored by the police, or both are the answer. I'm only
here to urge the select board, the town, and the police to act quickly, to make the warf area safe again for families to enjoy, and to prevent a tragedy. And I thank you for your time and your
consideration. Thank you. And I should have mentioned this at the top of citizen speak, but everyone gets three minutes. Uh we have a total of 21 minutes. There are um two people in person that have signed up and we do have one attendee. So I'm going to do
the other um in person uh and then we will do uh our online attendee. Um and we have Mrs. Smith from Cant. Oh, it's Mr. Smith. Sorry. Hey, nice to see you there. I get help lots from my wife. So, um,
uh, good evening. My name is Hail Smith. I've lived at 1632 Canton Avenue for 46 years, which is a very long time. Um, I'm here to support the Milton Climate Action Plan draft.
The 42page draft document represents a tremendous amount of effort by the climate action uh planning committee, all committed volunteers. It builds upon and aligns with the
Massachusetts legislation for addressing climate change and resiliency. Milton's municipal facilities represent a small portion of the town's total carbon footprint. However, the
town should and must lead in adopting the climate action plan recommendations. Section 3.2.1 2.1 of the plan goals and metrics targets reduction in fossil fuel
consumption from municipal buildings of 50% 75% and 100% by 2030 2040 and 2050 respectively. Did you know that Eversource has
installed a utilitycaled geothermal um system in Framingham? Salem is investigating a geothermal network providing heating and cooling for 21 downtown buildings and Welssley
Village Church has converted its HVAC system to geothermal. Milton could jumpstart its own efforts in partnering with uh by partnering with private institutions to install a
district geothermal network. Federal rebates of up to 30% for geothermal networks are still available through 2034. Unlike
solar, wind turbines, and EVs, time for federal support is short. I encourage the select board to thoughtfully engage with the draft Milton climate action plan and its
recommendations. Thank you for your time and consideration. Thank you, Mr. Smith. Uh we have uh one uh virtual attendee with their hand up. Um if you could promote them, Mr.
Milano, can you hear us online? Is it uh is it Ba who's there? Boa B, can you unmute yourself and uh let us know who you are? OA,
if you can hear us, we're waiting for your comments. We'll give you a few more minutes to figure a few seconds to figure out the uh the unmute button. Did you ask him to unmute? I have. Or them. Okay. Um we will I'll give you another few
seconds um and then we'll have to move along. um the our online uh individual with their hand up. Okay. I'm sorry that we weren't able to take your comment today. Um but if you would
like to uh email us, uh you can do that and we can maybe feature or you can join us at our next meeting to make your comment. I guess we will uh unpromote them. I still have trouble with Zoom. It's like five years of it and I still can't do it sometimes.
Uh okay. Uh so uh is anyone else uh present that uh wants to uh make a comment? All right. If not, then we will move on to uh our uh discussion update of the climate action plan committee.
And Mr. Hasha is with us tonight. And are you doing the slides, Nick, or Yes, I got them. Good evening, Mr. Hasha. Good evening. Is this thing on? It is. All right. So,
so I had to It's a lot of content when you talk about uh getting to net zero by 2050. So, I I have a script here to try to keep myself introduce yourself real quick. I'm sorry. I'm Alex Hasha. Good reminder. The uh chair of the
climate action planning committee uh and resident of Milton as well. Thank you. And thank you for your service on the committee. Thank you. and thank you for the opportunity to share the progress report with you tonight of what we've been working on uh
since we last reported in September and to get your feedback and support for our work. Um so since the climate action planning committee may be new to some of you, I wanted to start with a brief review of our mission and our charge from the select board. Uh could we go to slide
two, please? So, our committee's mission is to advise and engage the Milton community on how to mitigate the damaging impacts of climate change. Next slide, please. And our charge from the select board defines how we go about doing that,
which is that we're to prepare a climate action plan for consideration by town meeting that addresses the strategies and best practices for reducing communitywide greenhouse gas emissions in alignment with the targets set by Massachusetts law. Additionally, we're supposed to do this
via process that engages residents, experts, and other stakeholders and integrates with existing town bylaws, policies, and processes. Next slide, please. Uh, so when we say in alignment with the target set by Massachusetts law, I think
it it's worth um a reminder for folks in the audience who haven't seen this before like what that means. So in 2021, Massachusetts passed a landmark climate law that commits the state to achieving net zero emissions of climate warming pollution by 2050.
And achieving this goal requires starting now with technologies available today. So Massachusetts strategy relies on promoting energy efficiency and electrification which is transitioning from fossil fuels to electricity for heating, cooling and
transportation and at the same time um making enormous investments to expand the supply and reliability of clean electricity and to maintain the capacity of our natural and working lands to absorb the remaining emissions. That's the the net in net zero. Next slide,
please. So, where does Milton's climate warming pollution come from? The top sources are transportation, buildings, gas leaks, and solid waste. 53% comes out of our tailpipes. 42% goes to heat, cool, and
power our homes and buildings. Roughly 3% comes from natural gas and refrigerant leaks. And the last 2% comes from management of our solid waist stream. And we've estimated the natural greenery in our town can absorb about 6%
of that uh greenhouse gas emissions each year. From 2017 to 2022, which are the two recent years we have uh emissions inventories for Milton's greenhouse gas emissions increased by 3.6%. So we're
going in the wrong direction and we need to turn things around. Next slide, please. All right, so very small text here. Apologize for that. Uh, this slide summarizes some of the key outcomes that state planning has identified as necessary to meet Massachusetts climate
goals. Um, we must work towards a majority of existing buildings, completing energy efficiency renovations, ensure that fossil fuel heating equipment is overwhelmingly replaced with electric heat pumps at the end of life while preventing refrigerant leaks, which can be difficult. Um,
install lots of solar, replace the vast majority of vehicles with electric or non-emitting alternatives, and drastically improve access to and safety of alternate alternate modes of transport. It requires achieving a dramatic reduction in solid waste disposal because instate landfills will
be closing in the next decade and diverting food waste to compost facilities. And Massachusetts also needs to proactively maintain our forests and significantly expand tree cover and land and permanent conservation status. Next slide, please.
Um, so I want to I want to pause at this point and acknowledge uh how daunting or even paralyzing those goals are. Um, I think any reasonable person should have doubts about whether they can be achieved by 2050, but we shouldn't let
timeline anxiety become an excuse not to get started. The best available science says that net zero by 2050 will give the world the best possible shot at avoiding the worst potential impacts of climate change. But it's not a binary outcome. Qualitatively, sooner is better. Um, so
we should get started and move with as much urgency as we practically can. So we've focused on um identifying a set of near-term actions, things that we can do in the next two years to start moving in the right direction. And the goal is to build
momentum, start learning, and build our capacity for action. So to begin meaningful implementation, we need to mobilize town resources. Um, our top recommendations here are you hire a sustainability director or otherwise expand staff capacity. Many
towns have been successful with leadership roles focused on sustainability and these roles often pay for themselves through the grants that they bring in. Milton's uh new energy manager that will be shared with Randolph is a great start, but their scope is limited to municipal facilities
and we'll also need engagement from existing staff and departments on these goals. Um, second, we should work towards climate leader community certification. This is the state's framework to help municipalities meet the climate goals and will give us access to technical
support and grant funds. More on this in a minute. Uh, and that will help with item three because we need resources for feasibility and cost studies. We've we've missed opportunities in the recent past due to lack of matching funds and our inability as a volunteer committee
to effectively navigate the town's budget process in a timely way. And we need help from the experts on that stuff. Um and finally, we need to improve the town's capacity to reach residents with important and urgent communications. Um this is for you know
uh emergency situations managing climate risk but also for um sharing with town residents this this kind of work. And could you skip forward to slide 13 please? I when I practice this later I realized that that should come next. So I want to dive a bit deeper on the
climate leader community certification quickly because I think it has the potential to really help us get the ball rolling um on this work. So, a quick overview of this. The program is is like a green communities 2.0 aimed at helping communities like ours meet the state's
climate goals. Where green communities focuses on energy efficiency at municipal facilities, climate leaders expands the scope of that to match the ambitions of the 2021 climate law and help municipalities implement broad-based emission reductions. Achieving certification would make us
eligible for grants up to $150,000 for planning and technical assistance and up to a million dollars for the actual projects. Uh, next slide, please. And so, uh, pursuing the climate leader certification isn't just about qualifying for grants. It's also a
concrete way to get the ball rolling on implementation. The program lays out a clear structured process with technical assistance and grant support along the way. And there are six requirements of which Milton has already completed three. Um, we're a green community in good standing. We've established a
climate advisory committee, this one, and we adopted the specialized stretch energy code at the May 2024 town meeting. Um, the remaining requirements are making a municip a commitment to eliminate on-site fossil fuel use in
municipal buildings by municipal operations, sorry, by 2050. Um, our plan calls for this and I I think this requirement would be fulfilled when the select board andor town meeting gives the endorsement. We're seeking
uh completion of municipal decarbonization roadmap study. So, crucially, this is a well- definfined process with technical assistance available from DOER and consultants who specialize in in helping towns with these kinds of studies. Um, finally, the
last requirement is adopting a zero emission vehicle first policy uh in in municipal fleet procurement. And I I still honestly have questions about what this means in practice, but we can start looking at peer communities like Welssley that have done this to understand what it looks like in
practice. So working towards this certification would help us meet several of our near-term priorities, especially around municipal building studies and fleet planning, and it would position us to unlock up to a million in grants for implementation projects. In short, this is, I think, one of the most practable
practical and actionable next steps that we can take. Could you go back to slide nine, please? Awesome. Um, so now I'd like to run quickly through our top near-term recommendations in each of the major emissions categories. So to reduce uh
next slide, the yeah, reducing building emissions. So first, we should launch an energy coaching program to help residents navigate energy upgrades and electrification. Again, the vast majority because Milton is a predominantly residential town, most of
the building emissions come from privately owned homes. And the projects that are involved are still unfamiliar and intimidating for many people, most people. So, it's critical to focus on early adopters and make sure that they have good outcomes and tell their neighbors about the good outcomes
they're having. Um, we need to be identifying pain points and pitfalls and helping people avoid them. And we should also be addressing any obstacles that the town controls such as in zoning and inspection approvals. Quite a few other towns have done this. Uh and there are
models that we can follow that are discussed in the in the climate action plan. Second, um we should conduct electrification and energy efficiency studies for all municipal buildings and fold that into capital planning, especially for schools where HVAC systems are reaching end of life. And
completing the climate leader communities municipal decarbonization roadmap study, say that three times fast, would take us a long way towards towards this outcome. Third, uh, we should accelerate the transition to clean zero emission electricity in town by increasing the
green energy content of the default tier of Milton's community electricity aggregation program. And four, ensure the town itself is leading by example and purchasing clean electricity as well. Next slide, please.
Uh on transportation, we think there's more baseline research required to understand private transportation patterns and identify opportunities to support zero emission vehicles and reduce vehicle miles traveled. So we should be collecting and reporting mode of transportation data to and from
schools and partnering with local employers to support alternatives to solo driving like car pooling programs. Um, we also recommend leading by example by one working toward a zero emission vehicle first policy for the municipal fleet, maybe in stages as some vehicles
are harder to electrify than others. Uh, and begin planning now for eventual electrification of the school bus fleet. And we know that the school bus contract was recently renewed, but it will require time to prepare for this step. So, we should start looking into it.
Next slide, please. uh in forest and watershed conservation efforts are they're going to be important to maintain Milton's capacity to sequester carbon and mitigate climate change risks to health and property. So, uh, the working group focused on this is
recommending that, uh, we assess risks to homes near the Blue Hills due to climate change, revitalize the shade tree committee budget, and aim to plant at least 100 new trees per year, and begin collecting baseline data on tree stock in the Blue Hills. Um, I'll just
say that we have a lot more recommendations and goals in all these topics. These are really like the next two or three um that we recommend starting with. Slide 12, please. Um in the solid waste disposal near-term
recommendations really focus on improving our ability to partner with residents to improve the quality and reduce the volume of the waist stream. So to that end, the waste management working group is recommending developing a comprehensive community outreach plan to raise awareness and improve participation in sustainable disposal
practices. establish a bianual internal waste audit process so we have reliable data on what's being thrown away and where we can do better and expanding access to drop off locations for hazard hazardous waste e-waste and compost making it easier for residents to to
dispose of items safely and correctly. Um, we didn't hear about the crash in Citizens Speak on Randolph, but a lot of people avoid Randolph Avenue, which is where our our hazardous and uh sort of recycling program days are. Uh, so other
sites might really expand adoption and exploring regional partnerships also to to grow these collection opportunities beyond what Milton can do on its own. All right, slide 15. Uh, yeah, switch forward. There we go.
All right. So, the most important message I want to leave you with is this. We're we're really at the end of the phase where a volunteer committee working in isolation can make meaningful progress. Um, it's been a lot of work over the last two years to get to the
point where we have this draft. Um, and what we need now is active engagement of town leaders, specifically the group sitting at the table here, to to refine, prioritize, and ultimately endorse and resource the implementation of this plan. Many of the long-term emission
reductions uh that we're shooting for depend on private action, but the early momentum uh can be seated by the town itself through through policies, investments, and leadership. And that requires coordination across departments and
support from staff who report to you. So I'm definitely not asking for a rubber stamp. The plan is complex and it deserves your questions, your scrutiny, and your ideas. If something feels infeasible, let's talk about what is feasible and let's let's move the needle, right? And to be honest, while
climate targets often get framed as like do this by 2050 or else, the real truth is we can only go as fast as we can go. Uh but we do need to start moving. So, I hope we can do that together with with purpose and urgency. Now, thanks. And I
look forward to uh your questions. Thank you very much. Questions from the board. I have about 12 written down, so I'm not going to go first. Um I I'll I'll start with just a comment before we go into your 12. Uh thank you first for your work on this and coming
to present this to us. um having gone through this it is a lot as you said it's daunting and I would ask is there a way for either the select board or the climate action committee to lay out a potential roadmap uh there are points
that said let's do this let's do this but how do we know the points under that right so if it's um changing electrification um sustainability um changing the vehicle first or even getting this climate leader certification what are the steps that we need to take I think what I saw as a
board was as a board member looking and say this looks great but what are the next steps to actually get this ball rolling instead of saying these are the things that we should do. So is that part of our partnership next to say what are where is the town now and what are the steps we take to progress to some of
these um points or directives that you've given us. Right. So, so sort of a meta answer to that question, that's a tough project management. Yeah. project. We don't have a project manager on the
climate committee. Uh or it it's tough to do things in that organized a way with the group that we've got uh and the time that we've got. So this when I ask for more staff capacity, I would hope that town town staff
capacity could help project that degree of organization on this that you're talking about to actually give you an answer. Um I think that this climate leader certification process and uh this sort of been a recent learning for me that
this municipal decarbonization roadmap study that they require is actually a well- definfined process with like spreadsheet templates and and uh free technical assistance through DOER and consulting companies that can't wait to
work on with us on this. Um so I think committing to doing that uh and coming up with the whatever resources are required to um get that moving. So so what you're saying I'm hearing perhaps the step that would be there for
us is some version of project management to say these are the points that we would need because you're asking for a road map and they say you have to produce a road map to get this money. Uh we all want a road map, right? So, and they they have um a process for producing the road map. Okay.
I'm not a I'm a financial data scientist. I'm not a you know environmental consultant. Um so would love to get an environmental consultant uh helping us with this stuff. So, thank you. I think that's part of it as well. Mr. Client,
my mine is a follow to Mr. Dies is like the same thing. What is what is the priorities list? I see, you know, a a director or something in here. You know, what's what's the first step? It sounds like you're looking for more staff or something like that because the the the
volunteers have reached their limit. So, you know, what is the I guess what I would ask is what is that first most important first step for us to take? not so much for the um towards the goals as towards the organization. Like what what
do we need in place to make these things happen? And and I'd also like to say I I'm in the industry. I'm involved in it all the time and I totally I worry about it. I have children and grandchildren and I I worry about the future for them.
So I'm happy to help in any way I can. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think prioritization needs to be a discussion between our committee and and you. Um we have put a lot more time into
researching these areas of action. Uh and I think within the committee folks focus on different things. So if you ask me personally, uh I'm really interested in the the building emissions section of the plan. Um, I feel like there's a lot
of sort of actionable um, it's clearer what needs to happen. I I feel more daunted by the transportation sector, but we have some folks uh, in this room who know a lot more about transportation sector than I do. Um, so
I think that should be a conversation, right? We're we're trying to lay out some options. Uh, and prioritization should focus on, you know, where the emissions are. So I put transportations and buildings first for a reason. Um that's
98 95% of the emissions. So we should be doing something there. Um but uh yeah I mean the I think that yeah I shouldn't get the last word on what the priorities are if
that makes sense. And and I would just come back to the climate leader certification process. I think that could really uh give us a a a completable project and after completing that project um I think we'd all feel
like we have a a much firmer grasp on what we're trying to do because creating that road map is part part of the deliverables. Well, we I think we as a board can get it to be part of everybody's thinking. I mean, as the first step, facilities is thinking about it. public works is
thinking about it with all their, you know, we got to get it to be in everybody's mind, you know, so every time so they're aware of it, right? And and the public too, obviously. And the public, too. I think by by um the town needs to lead
by example. It's municipal operations are 2% of total emissions. And our goal here is all of them townwide. That's mostly private and commercial. Um but if the town is doing it, it legit it legitimizes it quite a bit, right? And
then coming back to your comment getting them thinking about it, that's really all we can ask for, right? I I even I I think don't live in a fantasy land where like the town is going to pay double, triple, just whatever whatever it costs to make this happen exactly as written
in a this plan. It's ridiculous. But if I think given the urgency of the problem, if we're not giving uh sort of clean energy products, um we're not incorporating them in our planning, I think that's irresponsible
at this point, right? If it if we do the planning and it's like, oh, the fossil fuel fuel system is half the cost, uh that's that's a tough conversation, right? But, uh, I think even even with,
um, backsliding on federal subsidies, I think there there's still a strong, um, economic case for a lot of these technologies, and we just have to do the planning uh, and design work to give
them a chance. Mr. daily. Um, looking at the decarbonization commitment that that you shared, um, it says the towns have to create our own decarbonization roadmap. So, in one of your suggestions, it's um, hiring a
sustainability director, which we don't currently have, but do we know of any grants or ways that perhaps we could have someone in an interim basis? I think right now in terms of town capacity, who would we give this charge to say what are the first 15 things over
the next two to three years that we would need to do? John, to your point of internalizing it in all of our municipalities as all the public works, how do we get it to DPW, to police and fire, talking about electrified vehicles or changing the way we, you know, restore our fleet, whether that's, you
know, uh, patrol cars or anything to snow plows. I don't know what what the availabilities are, but it seems that we need to have a real comprehensive cohesive plan created by someone and it certainly isn't on us to have volunteers do that further. So maybe that's the
first step for us is how do we increase our capacity even in a temporary, you know, six to eight months to then get this roadmap and put it into place. I think that's a good question. Mr. Milano, do you want to pine on it a little? Yes, I I think as and Alex
alluded to it is that we do have the grant that we received through Massave program with Randolph for a shared energy manager position. So that is you know he mentioned you know a municipal focus but in terms of getting the focus and the discussion started with the with
our departments that is what that position is there for. that position will be split between Mil and Randolph, but it is an opportunity to to leverage that to access the grants that Alex alluded to. Um, you know, the town is compliant now with MBTA communities, so that does open up more options in terms
of grant opportunities. Green communities program is one of them that was identified as um requiring compliance. So, um the door does open on that in terms of um potential opportunities, but I think that is in terms of capacity that position is
posted and available um for taking applications now. So hopefully by the fall we'll have somebody in that role and can start moving on some of the items that have been identified here. Um as it relates to kind of the town focus, town and school focus I should say. Do you think that some of this work would
also fall under the purview like when the planning department gets staffed up? Would they help out with some of this or it it can vary. I mean having that capacity in town hall for projects is
always helpful. And and I'll note that Josh Eertly who I'm sure did Yman's work with with you um who was the assistant planner um he was very interested in this work. So, you know, wanted to work on it and so we gave him that, you know, leeway and and capacity to do so. So, I
think that's where as we hopefully get back to full staffing, we'll have a little bit more capacity and you add in the energy manager as well. Um, and I'll note just as another example, the capital budget for fiscal 26 includes an appropriation
um to start examining the HVAC systems in schools through the facilities department. So that is, you know, it's not a project to go replace systems, but it's to say, you know, where are they in terms of end of life? We know they're approaching end of life. What are the right projects for us to consider moving
forward? Um, so, you know, we've because Milton's been part of green communities for so long. We've done a lot of the kind of the easy ones. We've done the lighting. Um, we've done solar on town and school facilities. So, it's it's now it's getting into the bigger projects in terms of the mechanical systems and
other types improvements. Yeah. I mean, you know, and also too, when you're thinking of candidates, it's probably a good idea to consider somebody who has strong experience in project and program management. I know
for me, um, you know, we're we're dialed in at work to the climate action, the 2050 plan for the state. Um, and we have a whole program basically teed up and you know
some strong project managers who are I mean like you you have to scope all of these things and really chip away at them. I mean I know that that's difficult to pull off in a municipality but um you know to Winston's point,
Alex's point, having um having folks with strong project management skills is key. And I think I I really enjoyed um the report that you know I I need to go through it some more. Um and you know I
thought that the presentation really made a lot of sense and and aligns with you know in in my professional expertise. Um, you know, I think the the right next step is getting some some organizational enablement and
then pivoting that into the basically doing the the assessments, the gap analysis and then scoping out the the projects that help us close those gaps.
So, well done. Thank you. Yeah, I just wanted to say the the folks who've been most focused on transportation have had to sort of step down from the committee this year due to other life commitments. So would love to have your creativity.
Well, I think so one of the questions that I had that maybe you know I I did not get to go through the report in as much depth as I would have liked to. Um so one of the things that I I will be kind of your mic's working great it's good. I can tell.
I now have I it's in my head now. Um I um I was I didn't see as much on EV charging stations in town, but maybe I just sort of missed something. But I
think that that's definitely um as somebody who recently got a hybrid EV. Um you know, I definitely I definitely see the importance of you know, having the chargers around town, especially if you don't have a fast charger hooked up
to the side of your house yet. Um, I'm burning my fossil fuels a little a little more frequently than I would like to um in my new car, but I think that um I think access to that is is important.
Yeah, on that specific topic actually um is a good opportunity to sort of elucidate how we work. So, we are organized into working groups on each of these emissions categories. Uh and and so I was not on the transportation working group and I also was a little
surprised not to see EV charging sort of closer to the top. Okay. So I didn't miss it. You didn't it's in the plan. It's not in the top the key actions for the next few years. Um and and so that's a conversation um within the committee and I'm sort of
reporting their recommendations faithfully. I will say I think it it bears studying uh for where are the populations within Milton for whom access to public EV charging is a barrier to adoption because we have so
many single family zoned house houses houses houses houses houses houses houses houses houses houses houses houses houses houses houses houses houses houses houses houses houses with driveways. So maybe the bigger lever is you know streamlining permitting for home installations. And I I'm not saying that's true. I'm just saying um I feel like we need a little more information.
Yeah. uh to know how many EV chargers we need, where they where they ought to be. Um yeah, I mean I know some towns like nationally when when this issue is analyzed sometimes like the lowhanging fruit is
like multif family housing and and that sometimes um addresses access issues. Um but yeah, that I think you're right. It's that, you know, unpacking where the where the need is
or where where charging where EV adoption could be encouraged by placing the the fast chargers. Yeah. So, thank you. That's a great example. Um, when I say that you we're not looking for a rubber stamp and it's a draft, right? So,
not not at all too late to take things out or put things in. Um, other questions for the members? You haven't asked your 12 questions. I know. Well, you guys have gotten to some of them. You'll be you'll be pleased to hear. Um, so uh first of all, thank you. Um, I I've been chair of the
select board for uh a little over two months and it's probably two months too long um since we've been able to have you come in and present. We our dockets's been a little full lately, but I'm I'm really delighted that we had this meeting to start. Um uh you know, I
think with what happened in Texas this past week, um with the news recently about Earth retaining heat faster than than uh expected or more than expected, um I think climate change is on a lot of people's minds. I think the feeling of hopelessness that you addressed at the
beginning is also on people's mind and I think it's really important that folks know that we we have the power to to make a difference at the local level. Um and nothing's more more powerful than than what you've presented as a as a volunteer committee of really concrete steps that we could take as a group. And
I I share my uh colleagues um questions sort of about um creating a roadmap or an action plan out of these suggestions because I think they're great and it would be lovely to see like you know how this works and I understand the limits that your committee has. Um so to get to
my uh specific questions um so uh on solar uh you you mentioned you brought up solar and encouraging early adoption of solar then you mentioned an energy coaching program. I know that uh and we've talked about this a little bit on this on the select board before. Um one
of the big hurdles for folks is they don't know which solar companies to trust. uh because there's you know we all get emails, texts, everything um sort of promising outlandish things for you know for for solar panels and then you you mentioned this energy coaching
program and so I'm wondering if that is a way and was it Welsley that you mentioned that has a No, I mentioned Welsley because they're one of the first climate leader certified communities and so they've done a zero a zero emission first energy
uh fleet policy So, I I have tons of questions about what I have questions on that one, too. Um, but for for this one, I'm just curious about what an energy coaching program. What is that specifically? Thank you. So, this is my favorite recommendation. I didn't know that.
My dream is to get past all this planning stuff, get get this everybody bought in and working on it. And then I want to be part of this coaching volunteer coaching program volunteer support because um
uh so I actually uh received help from a a volunteer-driven um heat pump installation coaching program when I did my home heat pump conversion. And it was it was a four-year process because I wanted to do everything right and be able to like
advocate for people. Um, and it if you have a sort of nerdy disposition, you can get lost in in the details for sure. Um, uh, contractor selection is a huge pain point for all all of these things. And
so almost all the coaching I'm aware of several coaching programs. I added a section to the climate action plan about them uh uh thanks to uh questions from Nick Milano when he um you know gave us gave us feedback on the first draft of
the plan in April. Um so there quite a few uh examples for us to look at. they usually incorporate um uh sort of broad educational outreach component like you know digital and um
print marketing just to raise awareness but then an intake funnel where people say hey I want to do this and then you get paired usually with a volunteer coach but there there needs to be is typically somebody on town staff who kind of manages the volunteer coaches
um and then it's you know, somebody who is just a a you know, a fellow homeowner who's has experience or is interested in this, who's sort of there to help you vet um proposals. Uh understand, particularly
with with HVAC renovations, like the design process is really critical to a good outcome. And it's so much easier to find somebody who will install heat pumps than to find somebody who will install them correctly. So, um, a lesson you learned, hopefully not the hard way.
Yeah. And and, uh, and most of these coaching programs include, um, kind of vetted contractor lists. Um, and there are other sources for that. So, but these are precisely the kind of problems that um, coaching programs I think are
are necessary to solve at this stage of the adoption curve. I mean, I think it'll be slow until we get to a place where people are like, "Oh, my my boiler's going. what should I do? And and your average neighbor says, "Get a heat pump." Then it'll sort of take care of itself or the market will take care
of it. But we need to help it along. No, I I I I I appreciate that. So, that is an interesting um I'd be curious to know what other communities do to support a coaching program. like if they have I it doesn't
sound like you would need a dedicated town staff person for the just that program but maybe it's part of uh it's not it's nobody's only job but there's it's somebody's job right right um and that's those are usually the most dangerous jobs uh at least the ones that tend to not get done
often a sustainability director yeah right so um yeah I can think of at least a half dozen and a nonprofit that is really eager to to to spin up more coaching programs with more towns. So that's that's really um exceptional to
hear on the um so you mentioned that the the Welsley vehicle program. So that was one of my questions and Mr. Daly kind of brought it up too. I'm just curious about fire engines and police cars and like I I can see the municipal fleets being you know that just the cars are
probably pretty easy but some of these other vehicles are I would imagine a little more difficult to get. Yeah, I think it's safe to say his intuition is correct, right? Yeah. So, I all I could say all I know at this point is um the
language is something like um to purchase zero emission vehicles when um commercially available and practicable. So, practicable I think is doing a lot of work in that sentence. I'm not sure exactly
how much more expensive it has to be than fossil fuel equipment before it stops being practicable. Um I don't think that it that requirement is practical if it doesn't have some like cost carveouts. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. And so I haven't had bandwidth to do
this, but I would want to talk to Welsley and and any other community that's done this and say, "How's this playing out?" Um because I think Welsley achieved the certification recently and their policy went into effect um in
fiscal year 26. So it's it's new operationally. I don't know if they've bought any new vehicles since it went into effect. So do we have any electric vehicles? Does the town Yeah. Uh the town has three
administrative vehicles that are Nissan Leafs um that were bought. I think I think they're 2019, so I don't know exactly when they're purchased. Um, but we haven't replaced any other administrative vehicles in that time span. Yeah. I'll just add the only the other
distinction in terms of practical would be and as you know in terms of the you know police and fire, police are running 24 hours for the vehicles that are in service. Obviously you could talk about cycling fire is large apparatus but then when you talk about DPW in terms of the
front line snow response might be running you know significant duration for many hours in a row. So thinking about how to um navigate through that um right is the other issue. But in terms of administrative vehicles, I think that's
certainly a place where we are looking. And the capital budget again this year does have a $50,000 appropriation to build out additional vehicle EV charging locations um to add capacity at town hall. Um and then there would be additional funding remaining from that. Um that might be able to leverage some
grant funding, you know, design them and then leverage the grant funding to purchase and install. So there's a couple of different options and pathways that are already funded through existing um and ongoing capital requests. I wonder did you and you wouldn't know
if Welsley uses like carbon offsets or anything like that because I just can't imagine they've swapped their whole snowplow fleet out for electric. I'd be I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that they have they still have fossil fuel um vehicles in their
municipal fleet and it's a policy um to replace when possible. Yeah. prefer uh and and I I read over their policy yesterday and it has a hierarchy in it of you know battery EVs are best and hybrid EVs after that and and um
so I'm I'm optimistic that there's some sort of reasonable um tradeoffs that can that can happen there um in practice but we definitely need to learn more. Great. Okay. Well, in the interest of of
uh of time, I Alex, I have your phone number as you know, so I can always follow up with indiv specific questions. There's there's two more that I wanted to get to, though. Um, first on the waste side, um, have you've been speaking with DPW about some of these waste recommendations, and you've probably seen, for example, that we've
started a municipal compost, which is fantastic. Um, but I'm curious about how much interface you've had with DPW. Um so for most of the um existence of the committee the um Jack Turner the
previous environmental coordinator was was staffing the committee and also participating in the waste working group um Arthur Doyle and I apologize to the other members of that group who I'm blanking on their names but so there's
there's a group within the committee that's been focused on that. Um and I I think they are getting um sort of connected with our new environmental coord coordinator Cassandra Calabro who's been great so
far but she also um I know uh you know the DPW's overburden and understaffed um and so that you hasn't been able to prioritize working with us to the same extent yet. Um,
so then, um, so my final question is I I think it probably should be a goal of this town, and I'd be curious to go back through the warrants and figure it out, but we should probably have a climate something in each of our town warrants as we go through, you know, into the
next few years because I I can imagine somebody looking back 50 years from now and saying like, look, they didn't talk about even even have anything and and we have done things like, you know, the the increasing energy efficiency, but if we had to or we wanted to put something in
this walls town warrant, um, knowing that we're not going to be able to do something that would be, you know, fiscally expensive at at short term, what what would be a recommendation that you have? I had some thoughts from this, but I'd be curious about what you think
would be a a good goal to put something in the town in the fall town warrant. Uh so there was in terms of things that um actually require would would benefit from um a sort of
representative approval from residents that is not astronomically expensive. Um perhaps uh increasing the renewable energy content of our CA program, right? Um
so uh that's really a story of accelerating the transition to fully clean electricity um through a voluntary action because the the state has a renewable energy portfolio standard where the the cont the green energy
content of the grid is required to go up every year and the utilities and generating companies are working towards that. But you can go above and beyond that by buying renewable energy credits. Um, we already give Milton residents the
the ability to opt into a 100% green product, but obviously the default tier is the one the vast majority of people are on. Um but just to give you an idea of cost uh our current contract the difference between
uh 10% additional renewable electricity and 100% is less than a penny per kilowatt hour. And we're recommending going from 10 to 20. um it should be pretty negligible in terms of the additional cost to um an average Milton
resident and and the CA program has saved the average Milton resident well thank you more than $1,000 um in in energy bills over the last several years. Oh, thanks for bringing that up. Um so I think that's something where uh you know
la in the last contract cycle the select board was reluctant to just last minute uh in endorse a something that would increase people's energy bills even even a tiny bit. Uh but it probably would be easy for town meeting to say this is
important and and we as a town would support that. So this just I thought it's a great suggestion. A great question. I hadn't thought about that before. Um the the stated goal of being zero net
uh by 2050 is part of the um part of the uh the CLC goals, right? The climate leadership uh goals. Is that something that also we could have t that also? Yes. So actually since we got the charge I have wondered uh what that
that clause for the consideration of town meeting would mean in practice. Um I know that in kind of 2020 2021 there were a rash of towns um passing town meeting articles declaring a climate emergency. Um and that's gone out of
fashion pretty hard. Um but so and those are purely symbolic too. So I think that that was the feedback I got early on in Milton that like what's the point of doing a purely symbolic town meeting article and I kind of agree. So
uh but I'd love to work with you on you know what is a a more meaningful um commitment that town meeting could make to um to these goals. It's again I think the idea of like we we
commit come hell or high water no matter you know how expensive this stuff gets or how little support we get or if the state abandons its goal I mean a lot could happen in 30 years. Yeah. Well hell and high water are both in the forecast unfortunately. Yes. Um so that that's helpful. I think it
would be just thinking about the timing for the fall town meeting. We have to have articles to the warrant we've promised the warrant committee that we won't spring anything on them. Uh, and so we have to have articles to them by early August. Is it? Yes. When's the next meeting of your
committee? Thursday. Thursday. Well, can I ask would it be a can, you know, I think the charge of the committee was ultimately that the climate action plan would be approved or adopted by the town meeting. Do you think the runway is ready for fall for
that or is that more of an annual focus? that I break into cold sweat thinking about that because it's still in draft form. I think it I wouldn't want to rush the um the review and refinement process. I
also from the beginning I thought this is a long document to ask every town meeting member to read and approve the whole thing. I I would definitely um appreciate some some thought partnership on I mean the advantage of doing it
what to put in front of them. Yeah. The advantage of doing it in the spring is that you get more time to prepare. The disadvantage is that you will have uh undoubtedly some new town meeting members who will have you know three or four days to read through the warrant including this. I mean, hopefully if they're running for town meeting, they're doing a little homework in
advance, but um whereas if you did it in the fall, the town meeting folks would kind of be on notice and they'd probably have a little less to read through and they'd have a little more time to do it. So I think it's it's kind of it maybe turns back to you of like do you think
I I think it on that timeline an article directing the select board and the town to to do this like get this done get the plan done you know work towards climate leader certification that would
I mean you tell me but I I think that would probably help you sure have the mandate to prioritize this differently than it's been prioritized until now. So maybe then for next steps um Mr. Milano and I can work with you to think
about what one or two draft articles could look like and then we can bring them back to this group to discuss about putting them on the warrant. Does that I mean I I just want to make sure that I you I appreciate this work and we want to review the whole thing but I you know knowing that we need do need to take
these little steps kind of want to identify what those little steps might be in the short term. John and the other factor is the urgency of of this. You know what I mean? This is this is urgent. If we're not perfectly ready but we're doing it sooner it may be a a tradeoff.
I agree with that 100%. Yeah. We should certainly talk to DOER um about if they have any sort of concrete requirements for in complying with that. Um I don't want to use the word comply for meeting that
eligibility requirement. Um be good to incorporate that in our discussion. Great. In doing that, I'd like to volunteer my help, too. So, what Oh, well, thank you very much. All right. Well, we can we can we can use always another set of eyes on. So, what would be our goal there for
spring or for October town meeting? So, I think we definitely want to have something for the October town meeting, whether it's um and it sounds like this commitment to eliminating on-site fossil fuel use by the town by 2050. Maybe that becomes the version of a warrant article checks that
box for climate leaders and also that might be a pathway to go. So that is it's a little bit less of an ask than the whole report, but it kind of underscores the whole purpose that we're working towards here. Um, and we can that might be a way to approach it and
it's not as heavy a lift for a fall town meeting in terms of preparing it um from there. And I I yeah I that's kind of what I was thinking. I I do also though like um Mr. Hasha's idea of at least maybe starting the conversation around moving from 10 to 20%. Um those are the that's the sort
of thing where we can easily get numbers of like what's the average electricity bill in Milton like what what's that going to cost people. Um I'm on the 100% plan so I and and I have solar. So um but again I would have loved an energy coach three or four years ago when I was getting my solar put in. So
and that's what I was going to say. I I haven't made the transition and it's because I I need an energy coach to help me through the process. So, I I I think from a town staffing position, we can we can make that call uh on a town position as a board. And so, maybe for a future
meeting, we can have a discussion. And it would be great to include um members of the committee uh as well in terms of helping us think about what that position might look like. Okay. Any final questions for Mr. Hasha?
Can I just make a comment, please? Yes. I just would like to and I know everybody thinks but um Alex is the type of volunteer that um does yman's work in Milton and that's you know I just wanted to acknowledge the many hours that I know went into this work
and just thank it um the worker bees like Alex and we we're lucky to have so many of them but they make a big difference in our ability to do our work and also for a little bit of pressure to keep pulling us in a good direction so we appreciate it. Yes, it's very important. Thank you very much. Thank Thank you all for making the
time tonight. I really enjoyed this and I hope it's the beginning of uh lots of long email threads. We can look forward to emails. And thank you to the Smiths for cheerleading over here too. We've always loved to see our neighbors. Thank you. All right. So, uh moving on. Uh we have
the uh discussion approval update approval of the Milton Budget Coordination Committee appointments. Mr. skipped item five. Oh, we did the Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. application. Oh, it's just the MBTA communities. I don't know why. Uh, item number five
is the discussion approval of MBTA communities act district compliance application. Mr. Milano. Uh, sure. Thank you. Um, so just picking up on our meeting our discussion at our meeting on June 30th. Um, the district
compliance application is due to HLC by July 14th. And I I just want to take a moment. there is kind of two separate um but in this case um correlated um things that we need to do to wrap up the bylaws that were approved by the town meeting.
So any bylaw change whether zoning or general bylaws needs approval of the municipal law unit. Um so in the wake of the town meeting, the town clerk will prepare um reports to the attorney general's municipal law unit for their review of both zoning and general bylaws. So that is being prepared and
will be submitted um by the town clerk separately. Um for MBTA communities specifically, there's a separate um application process where HLC is seeking information about the zoning bylaw that has been approved for compliance with MBTA communities and the regulations
associated with that. As part of the application, they do require proof that um the town has submitted through the town clerk the materials to the attorney general's municipal law unit. So those are two of the requirements um that are included as part of this. Um the
district compliance application is essentially repeats a lot of the information that has been shared with HLC previously um in terms of what the districts are, what the housing unit um requirements are within the districts. So it it identifies each of the districts and describes them very
briefly in terms of zoning density. Um it also asks questions about affordable housing and any requirements in the uh in the bylaw around affordable housing. So I had prepared um a draft application that was in the members packet. The um remaining piece and element that will
need to be submitted is two things from the town clerk which is the first thing I referenced which is the submission to the municipal law unit. And then they also asked for a letter from the town clerk um attesting that the current bylaws are all the bylaws that have been
adopted recently um just they just want to make sure there's nothing that would be conflicting that they're not aware of um and everything is up to date um and will be up to date. So that town clerk's letter will will accompany it. So the full application will include the
application I included in here um the backup information prepared by UTIL in terms of the district by district um spreadsheets and parcel information um which I included in the packet and then uh the town clerk's materials.
Okay, questions from the members. So is is this is this a mirror of what was approved by town meeting article six? Yes, it it is. All it does is describe what was in article six. Okay.
Other questions? And then they'll as part of their review, they're going to confirm that all the backup materials that we submit align with what the actual zoning text says. So, um, if there's any discrepancies
between the two, HLC will identify that and try to figure out why. So if for example one unit was supposed to be unit capacity of 50 units an acre and the zoning the parameters and the spreadsheets say it was 50 units an acre but the zoning bylaw says 25. Well that's going to be a problem and they'll identify that's the kind of review
they're doing compared to the backup and the materials we submit here with a line by line review of the bylaw itself. Other questions? Mr. Cohen I had 12 questions for climate change. I I just wanted to um
speak again and um I hope we can put our differences aside for a moment. It's something I think we should always strive to do which requires an open mind. I always strive to be as factual as I can with documents to back up those facts that I present and I have them
here with me tonight and I can share with anybody who wants them. We submitted an action plan back in February. There was an email from Mr. Milano which I read from in which which we stated that the I have a separate
letter which includes language recommended by Peter Melo um for this action plan for our action plan back then. And also attached to that email was our 25% action plan. And in the
cover letter, it was stated, and this was again prepared by Peter in the and I can share all of this, but that the um the town of Milton submits this action plan only to the extent required under 760 CMR 7209 parenthesis 4, and hereby
expressly reserves all rights, including without limitation the right to challenge the validity or enforcement of any provisions of 760 CMI. uh 7201. Um and the action plan was approved by
HLC with that reservation. So tonight I'm asking for the same language we included in that cover letter for that plan to be included in our compliance application which we are discussing and approving now or we may
be delaying it slightly. Um, we will be approved. Our plan will be accepted. But if anything happens to us down the road, we have reserved the right to challenge. We don't know what this will do to our town. On top of
that, as I'm sure you've all heard, the state is anticipating federal cuts and that will necessitate state school state cuts in school funding, which the governor has already announced. This is coming at a time when we just approved.
Thankfully, a massive override for the schools and we are in the process of building a new school. I personally don't believe in the current situation especially that we can take the chance that adding more homes won't increase our student population. Certainly, one
cannot argue that whatever impact results are, a 25% plan will be greater than a 10% plan. So, I would argue again and like to propose a motion. No, a friendly amendment in keeping with working together that we
include the same language in the cover letter to this submission as we did previously. I'm told that this can be second and that a person can still vote against it. That is if you want a public vote. But I'm I don't know what the proper wordage is, but I'm
Okay. I I I I hear what you're saying. Is that the end of your remarks? I don't want to interrupt. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um it I'm just going to turn to Mr. Milano real quick. Was that the action plan that we did not submit in February because I didn't think we put an action plan forward in February?
Yeah, I I would have to look back. I believe what we I believe we prepared exactly what was described and then the board voted actually not to submit an action plan at all and we submitted a shorter letter basically saying we're
not submitting an action letter at this time. And that was my recollection too. This was my whole gripe back at that time that we talked about cover letter, cover letter, cover letter. And then we got an email from you which all of which I have that said that the action plan had been submitted.
And the action plan was the one I just quoted from that was prepared by here it is, you know. Um, dear Secretary Augustus, I'm reading from it. This is the cover letter that went with the plan. What's the date on the on the letter? um
21st, February 21st, right? And then what ended up happening and I we prepared that accordingly and what ended up happening is the board voted to actually not do that at all and just not submit an action plan. So we wrote a letter to the to the secretary
and I just pulled it up that opens with at this the time the town is unable to submit an action plan because the town disagrees with the classification that is placed in. That was dated February 14th. It's up on our website. It's what we submitted. Um, and the it goes on to
talk about how the public comment period is still open and that we we're seeking to see what the final regulations look like. So, that was we had prepared an action plan letter as you described assuming that the board would want to
submit an action plan and that was not the direction the board took at that time. My my main point though, could I just respond to what Mr. said? Sure. So that was my recollection as well. So in in February, we had this uh deadline. I think it was the 14th or something like that or maybe I'm
conflating that with the July deadline, but there was a dead there was date in February that we had to submit an action plan. And the action plan at that point just said that we uh as a town committed to submitting a compliant plan by the July deadline. And if we had if we'd
submitted a plan that said and it would lay out the course of like we're going to have a town meeting on X date or on in X month to to review and approve plans. So what I had hoped to do at the at the time in February was to in order to get Milton back into compliant status
to say yes, let's do this action plan and let's create language in it that makes it possible so that if we if there is a change before town meeting or whatever town meeting ends up passing if our classification status changes that we can then you know we could then in
July submit a 10% plan instead of a 25% plan because our status has changed. Um, and the select board at the time was unwilling to even do that and just prepare just was ready to go back into being non-compliant uh until uh we had
uh until the the town meeting which at the time I thought was a huge mistake. I had attempted to compromise uh by saying let's put an action plan together. Let's use some of this word verbiage that suggests that we have, you know, the ability to potentially change it before
the July time the town uh the the July deadline, excuse me. So, um I just want to be clear on the timeline for folks so that they understand that we we didn't actually send that letter uh that you were quoting from and unless I don't know off
the top of my head if the letter that um we submitted in May at the instruction of the select board at that point uh had that language. I don't know if you have that letter uh available or not when we submitted not in front of me. I don't believe there was a the reservation of rights
question I don't believe had come up at the time. Um but I I think the Mr. uh sorry uh Mr. Okay. And I think your point is more or less so include the reservation rights language now. And my my point is that in it was recommended by Peter whether the letter
went out or not at that time it was recommended by Peter. The draft of the letter included it what word for word what I just read on it with so a lot of what went on in the past two weeks was all about reservation of
rights. Yes. We worked on it with Peter. We worked on that language and then you voted against it. I I understand which is which brings me to my I I mean I I don't want to put too fine a point on. I just want to bring it to my ex issue is that we need to release the meeting notes of those two executive
sessions. That Oh, that was an open session. That was an open session. But beside that, we need to release the meeting minutes from the two meetings and and and I'd like to I'd like them available to us select board members who are in the meeting as soon as possible.
There's no reason why we can't deviate from the from the topic uh that we have, but I know that we're we're working on on those minutes. So, I'm just I'm just trying to make the point that that was the compromised language that that I had worked on with Peter and other folks uh
six months ago to to try to keep us in compliance. Ask a question of course of the two board members that were not present for this. Yes. Uh so the letter in February was an action plan and really an intent to
right I wrong in that like we intend to right submit something that yes and and Mr. Milano and Mr. Cohen can correct me if I'm wrong, but in February basically once the new regulations had come out, uh, then there was a new timeline that had come out for us to be compliant.
Some towns because they were already compliant, it didn't matter. But for towns like Milton that were at that time non-compliant now had this new deadline in July. And so we h the part of the deadline was in February sending to the state uh an action plan which was very
minimal of saying that we commit to by July 14th submitting uh a compliant plan. Um at the time um we did not end up submitting that letter. We ended up submitting a letter saying we are not submitting an action plan because we
don't believe that we've been classified fairly. So we had a it was a letter to the state with we intend to submit a plan but at that time we had certain cases that were still out there and it was we intend to submit along one line but if the cases are different we want
to reserve the right correct to change but we didn't actually it was not submitting our compliant plan. No we didn't so we don't have a cover letter that was on an actual compliant plan that went to the state. That's correct. Yeah. My my point though is that
in our latest conversations, meetings, you know, it was put out that PETA wasn't favoring a reservation of rights. And here just a month ago.
Well, that well that's that's why the meeting that's why the meeting minutes need to come out. The meeting minutes will come out. The I'll say the vote in those in those meetings remains the vote. Um I don't believe that was Peter's stance that will come out in the meetings um whether
he was for or against the reservation of rights. Um so I don't think that's what's questioned here. Peter said what he said in that in the compromise that was made. We had a discussion about the reservation of rights and took a vote on it. That will be reserved in that will
be shown in the minutes. Right. I don't think it was based on uh Attorney Melo's sole um recommendation one way or the other. Um I just wanted to get context on what the cover letter was for, where it was sent, and also the difference in
the conversation that we had with new board members, different history um in terms and also a different place where we were in the decision we made about including it or not. right? Because we're talking about
five months of of history from February to July. So, I think that is important as well to add into that. I'm not against your point. I I understand it and you're right to bring it, but I just want to get some history for where where
we were before we before I was on the board and the reasoning. Yeah, I think um if I may um we instructed and again I'm relying on my own memory here from February
um but there was an earlier conversation there was a conversation it maybe it was end of January or or first last meeting of January first meeting of February about the action plan where the board asked the asked Peter to prepare a
letter that allowed allowed for this. So that was a it was a board instruction to Peter to to create that letter with that language. So it wasn't that we asked Peter what his opinion was of that letter. He just gave us the best version
that he thought of that had that language. Um so I I wouldn't I don't know I I don't think anybody at the time asked Peter, "Do you agree with this or not?" It was more of an instruction to produce the letter. Um but I I'll turn to Mr. Milano, in case I'm
misremembering, I have in in your email, it says the letter, be it a draft that wasn't submitted or not, the letter includes language recommended by Peter. Okay. So,
okay. Um, so and then, um, I think that you, uh, wanted to make a motion also. Well, it a motion or a friendly amendment. I'm I think it has to be it has to be a motion. So, I'd like to make a motion to include reservation of rights as I did
last week, last meeting, a reservation of rights in our submission. Okay. And uh I think we can open this up for discussion. I don't know. Um uh doesn't it have to be seconded first? No. Well, we can have discussion and then and then a second. Um, but I for
the purposes of of having a discussion, I'll second the motion. Um, and then I'll say why I'm not going to vote for it. But for the purposes of having I learned that today, too. You can do that. I didn't think you could.
So I you know I will say um when we drafted that language in February it it was uh really we were trying to we were juggling with a different set of circumstances which were that our the the classification question hadn't been definitive well in some folks's mind it
hadn't been definitively answered uh I think being the most important one. Um now we've had court verdicts that have really again clarified the classification question. But moreover,
uh there's no reason why if we are found to be if something happens um and we our status changes, there's nothing that prevents the town from going back and changing this is the zoning language to
being the 10% zoning language. The only thing that might happen is if somebody builds um a threeunit building on their single family property, then that would be there as of right to do. Um but barring those individual changes, it's
we would still have the right as a town to amend our uh our our our zoning status. I know that some people have made the argument that that's not true, but we've had that confirmed by multiple individuals that we can change back if
we get reclassified. Um, I think that we need to put this issue behind us and move forward. I think there's a lot of really pressing issues, some of which we've already heard about tonight, that this town is dealing with and that's why I'm going to vote against it because I I
also don't want to offer the false promise of a potential change in classification status, which I can't imagine is going to happen. Um I I I think it why not I can't understand why not include the reservation of rights because it doesn't mean anything.
So then include it. I I don't like to include things in in that don't mean anything. Now you're making up a story. Why? It can only Why don't I include Mary had a little lamb in the letter? Like I can't understand for the life of me why this conversation about this.
There's absolutely no reason. They'll accept our plan. We'll move forward like anything. I don't There's only one reason and I don't want to start an argument. What's the reason? I'm not going to say what I think of this. You can say it all the time. You can say it.
It's all about my idea. Oh, John. Well, because it's your idea. No. No. No. This whole It's It's You know, we can't consider another Why not put it in there? Why not? Why not?
I don't think it's good faith to put it in there. You don't think Well, I don't think it's good faith to put it in there because I It doesn't do anything. It doesn't change the status quo. Good faith. First it was the law. We got to obey the law. Now we're obeying the law. Now it's good faith. I
mean, come on. Is that it? I mean, yes. Follow the law and act in good faith. Is there good faith? It's a totally other thing. Is there a chance that HLC
could reject what we submit or could it really like raise eyebrows and we would have our compliance rejected if we include something like that? I mean, that's something that like that's
that's that's my concern with it. I'm just being you're you're being honest and that's just my my concern with it is if we include it like can we does it create like an unnecessary
and I'm I'm looking at Nick and asking and I wasn't part of the convers the executive session so I don't but that would be the question I would have or the reason I could think of not to do it I I think HLC's and I'm obviously
projecting and kind of interpreting. I think at the end of the day they're going to look to see if we have a zoning bylaw and if the zoning bylaw parameters meet the requirements in the regs and we do the town meeting has approved that
and what is submitted as part of the district compliance application is just backup information that supports what is a valid in effect bylaw in the town of Milton. So I think at the end of the day that is the test they're applying extra words. I don't I
I can't guarantee anything, but I don't worry about it. They might be like, "Oh, this is weird, right? But we're submitting a compliant plan, John. I I want I want to respond to what you said about this being because it's your plan." And I we've been you you you
were in you were in not disregarding your feelings. You were in the executive session, the conversations that were there. None of this is about rejecting a plan because a certain person came up with it. Right? I think we've all been very open and
listened and entertained many ideas and we've discussed them thoroughly. Questions have been asked if folks come up with and say I disagree that this is necessary because I disagree that this is necessary and you know that I did and you know the questions that I asked and
I don't find it to be relevant. And as Ben said and as Nick has agreed, if something changes with the zoning, nothing stops us from changing and moving back into what we had before into whatever percentage is going to happen. We have had the cases that have been
tried. We've had the decisions that have been made. Adding the extra language just seems seems unnecessary. And just having the comfort of, oh, I put this on a cover letter. I don't think that's good process and I don't
want you to think and I don't want it to misrepresent our process here as a board either that we have dismissed out of hand anyone's ideas without having an actual discussion right whether it was this whether it was joining five and six at town meeting we
have gone above and beyond to talk to people and I think that messaging that's been sent out there that people are being blocked or people are not being heard or people's um thoughts don't matter and people being blocked I think that's dangerous to say because I don't think that's been our process. I think we've been very open to listening to
everyone and no matter what the situation is, even if it's MBTA or anything else, I don't think in any of our sessions have we looked at each other and said, "No, I don't care what you're going to say. I'm not going to listen. I'm not going to go with it." Well, we we just heard Nick say that there's no threat to anything. So, why
not include it? Well, so I think that there's two uh if I if I may attempt to answer your question, I think that there are a couple of factors. So there there is just the simple like legal factor of it doesn't matter, so put it in and it
won't affect compliance, which there's no guarantees, but I tend to agree with Mr. Milano probably, you know, unless somebody's feeling particularly vindictive, we're not gonna it's not going to endanger anything. But then the second the second and I and and to my mind more important message is the
message that it sends to the folks of Milton which is that there is a a a hope or a path that somehow all of the work that has been done by the
planning board by UTIL by this board uh by town meeting for hours and hours and hours of debate is still potentially going to be thrown out the window uh for for causes yet to to be identified. Uh
and that that that then the folks who um have made this their sort there, you know, a a passionate issue of theirs will continue to sort of agitate for a reclassification that's that is legally not possible. And so in my mind, it's
much more the latter than the former that is the reason why I'm I'm voting the way that I will be voting on this. It's not because I don't I think it will endanger our compliance status. It's because I think we had this we've had multiple opportunities over the past
several years to try to come up with um you know compliant plans or compromises and we have finally after you know because you've been in the meetings as I have been long long slog we have we have reached this point of submitting a
compliant plan and I don't think putting language like that in the letter is fair to the citizens either who voted for or voted against the the plan at town meeting or who supported the plan or didn't didn't support the plan at town meeting. I just don't think it's fair to them because I think it creates a
possibility that doesn't exist. That that's all that's all I'll say in the matter. That's that's how I feel about it. It's not because it's your idea. I just want to say we have no idea what the risks are with this. We don't and and
this limits our available actions after the fact. We have no idea what this is going to do to us. 10% 20 this this PL this MBTA act. We have no idea. We're all speculating but we have no idea. And I just say in
here that by doing this we're limiting uh things we can do for the town down the road. That's all I think I think that's where we're gonna I think that's where we're going to disagree, John. Um because just as you said, if it means
nothing, we should add it. I'll say if it means nothing, why add it, right? And we'll be and we'll be stuck in that back and forth. Yeah. Yep. I just repeat what I said. We have no idea what this is going to do to the town. And here we're voting on something
that will Well, my how does by every lawyer I talk to, but I'll ask I'll let No, every lawyer you talk to here says what you want to hear. So if we want if we want if we want to march every lawyer in Milton through the doors and get their opinions, we'll be here a week.
Hey, a lot of people. Maybe we should. No, I'm just kidding. All right. I feel like that the discussion has kind of reached a a zenith. Um, and uh, is there anything else that anybody wants to add? So, motion's been made and seconded. Um, this doesn't need to be a roll call
vote. So, I'll just say all in favor. I'll say I. Opposed. Opposed. And, uh, so that's 143 against. So, uh, then I think what we need, um, for you, Mr. Milano then is a motion to
uh approve the submission of the communities act district compliance application is thank you is would anybody like to make that recommendation or make that motion uh I will do it move to approve submission of the MBTA communities act
district compliance application. Okay. Motion made by Mr. Dailyaly. Uh is there a second? Second. Seconded by Missy. Uh all in favor? Oh sorry. Any discussion? Okay. All all in favor? I I uh all opposed. I Okay, three to one.
Uh that's the end of that. And I just want to say uh I'd like to commend everybody. I feel like that was a very reasonable discussion and I hope that we can walk away with good feelings and continue to engage in conversation. Thank you. Um take me a little longer to get to sleep. Well, I'm just teasing. I'm just
We hope you get to sleep. Turn up the I said we hope to get you get to sleep. We'll we'll make the We're laughing. So That's a good sign. A good sign. And none of it's personal. Exactly. If I can say anything I have learned in
the past several months is it's not personal. Yeah. Even when sometimes it seems like it. Well, I mean, I've seen some personal things, but even that I don't think is personal. But that's a hard lesson to learn because everything else is personal. True. This falls outside of that. Anyway,
John, thank you for you've you've been advocating for your constituents in the constituency of this town who share your views incredibly well and you know it's it's
been it's been great to to be a colleague with you during this. I really appreciate it because, you know, I I bear the brunt of a lot of things out there and, you know, I I just think it's very nice that, you know, we're we're all able to get along on friendly terms
even when we disagree. And I wish that more of the town would would adopt the same disposition. Maybe we can spread that. Yeah. Well, we can model the good behavior. That's for sure. So, thank you to all the members on that. Um, so let's move ahead. Uh before we
start holding hands, um we've got uh not that there's anything wrong with that, ups and downs. We've got the now item number six, uh Milton Budget Coordination Committee appointments. Mr. Milano. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um so we have the
the board adopted this committee charge at its prior meeting on June 30th. Um two members of the select board are designated as serving on it. The board hasn't nominated and appointed those two members quite yet. So, we're just looking for action on that. And then we also had talked about appointing a
resident um to this committee. And I realized we have an oversight. We we typically our practice is to list the names that of non board members who might be appointed to a committee on the agenda before we make that appointment. Um it's a a requirement under open
meeting law. So, we should not take the action on appointing any residents tonight. The board can take the action to appoint members. So, I apologize for that oversight, but we can correct that for the 22nd. Okay. My my also apologies to Mr. Walker because I told him it was going to happen tonight. So I we should have his name listed. Um
Okay. And the committee is not meeting before then. No, I would have missed. Okay. So So he won't miss any any of the fun stuff. Um I So I I believe if the members will indulge me, I think that we had spoken about appointing both Mr. Daly and Miss Heggerty to this committee
uh as the um as the finance committee. And I just wanted to ask a quick procedural question that wouldn't violate any uh they wouldn't have to post as the finance committee if they were meeting together on this, would they? They we may have to crossost it, but it doesn't mean anything really different. It just
I just would look into that and make sure if we have to do that, we should do that. Um so I will uh make a motion to appoint uh select board members uh Mr. Daly and Miss Hagerty to the Milton Budget Coordination Committee. Would you like to second? I'll second.
Miss No, Mr. Go ahead and second. Um, any discussion? You guys accept the uh appointments? I accept. I accept. Okay, great. Uh, so all in favor? I I uh opposed. All right, so that's unanimous. Uh, and
with apologies to Mr. Walker, we will get the job done on the 22nd. Uh, Mr. Milano, discussion approval contract with capital strategic solutions for financial and operational overview. Uh, yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. We talked very briefly about this at our prior meeting. I had neglected to include the
proposal in the packet. So I apologize for that. I did do that this time around. Um as I mentioned um in our prior meeting, it's um kind of a broad overview of both town and school financial operations and controls. um identify um places where improvements
could be implemented um and report back um with a with a report with deliverables with recommended actions um and I would um be seeking a an approval to move forward with that and um get the work underway.
Great. Any questions from the members? Just a quick comment. So, I thought the um I thought the proposal looked good. Um, I do it's like maybe this is like a little bit nitpicky, but it it would
have been nice to see a little bit more of like what they wanted to do with the breakdown between um Milton Public Schools versus like the rest of the town. Like I didn't really see like a percentage breakout of that. I don't think that's like a reason to
not vote in favor of it. Um, but it it it would be nice to just understand that and and maybe and maybe that's tricky to do. My question was is maybe that is tricky to do because some
of these systems like flow into each other I would assume. Um, but I just I didn't know what your thoughts were on that neck. No, I think that's that's right. Right. I mean, if you think about our accounts payable system, payroll, there's interaction. You know,
there's folks in the school department who have their job to enter their piece, but it all comes back to the town side. We're using the same software and the same tools. Everybody's working off the same information. Payroll is submitted to town payroll from the schools to to implement there. We're all working again
at the same kind of tools. So I think it's um a lot of that overlap is why I don't think that appears as crystal. Yeah. And and to be clear to like anybody watching like that th though the the flow of those
systems is why it's it's definitely necessary for the town to be in the scope of this. Yeah, you know, I wouldn't want folks who are demanding um an overview of the school systems
um to say why are they lumping it all together? It seems like it's it's because the town systems and school systems are intertwined. Correct. And and deficiencies there in terms of process would affect both, right?
Um improvements would affect both. So that's you know that's the basic behind it. but also ensuring that there are direct conversations with um school representatives about their processes that are internal to how they're managing their budget and then processes on our side of the house as well in
terms of how we're managing our budget to come together with you know best practices that that work for everybody. Yep. It's good. Other comments or questions? I'll take a motion on this one if someone wants to do it. Um, I'd like to
move to approve the contract with Capital Strategic Solutions for a financial and operational review. Second, seconded by Mr. Cohane. Uh, any further discussion? All in favor? I opposed. Okay, that's unanimous. Uh we
have our uh next item is a discussion update approval liquor license zones per request of the joint committee on consumer protection and professional lensure for the home rule petition for five additional liquor licenses house bill 4089. I hope the discussion is not as long as
the title of the agenda item. Mr. Milano, you've provided us with these excellent maps and some comments by email, but I'd sure uh welcome your your uh overview here. Sure. So, um just as a reminder, we the town meeting in February did approve a home rule petition that would allow
Milton to have five additional um alcohol licenses for consumption on the premises, which is the legal language for restaurants. Um the home world petition does not limit geographically um where these would be allowed in
Milton. It was broad um to be allowed anywhere in the town. There would be licenses to be held by the select board for issuance anywhere in Milton. um as the legislation has been reviewed um at the committee level at the legislature, they've um they've not been inclined to
support such a broad approval. Um what they typically do is they either require that it be assigned to a very specific address. All of our prior liquor licenses that have been approved by town meeting and by the legislature are tied to a very specific address, which means
that it's not transferable by the owner, but it also means the select board can't issue a license um for the location of Novara to somewhere across town. It has to stay at the location of Novara. Um so what we were seeking was more flexibility to have licenses that could
be issued with because we don't know of today of anybody who's going to be requesting a license. And the idea is to have them so that they don't have to, you know, sign a lease and then come to town meeting, then go to the legislature and take a long time to get through that process to potentially request a select board for a license. So
um in order to respond to the committee's request um which was to identify zones in Milton where um the town expects license could be requested at some point in the future. Um it's kind of a tricky project to um identify
zones that you know some future thing might happen at that we don't know today. Um and they explicitly said it can't be a map of the entire town. Um so that is not a loophole we can use. Um so what I have done is based on a couple conversations we've had with the board
identified a few areas around town for feedback. Um, and I'll just start kind of, you know, Curry College, Fuller Village area. Um, I did an area that includes the Ice House, um, 40B project, which does have commercial. Quick question. Did they ask for a limit
to the area? They No, I think they just said a map that shows us what they describe as economic opportunity zones. I don't know that there is a a mon, you know, a number of zones that they want to limit it to, but I think this is all part of
the dialogue. Um, so one that covers the ice house and kind of that that strip of Blue Hills Parkway to Cantav um the paper mill site which is um just in keeping with the MBTA communities approved zoning that that does contemplate a large potential mixeduse
project there. Um so who knows what might happen. Um again in in thinking about the MBTA communities um approved zoning the Matipan station area, Central A um and Milton Village area um you know
a strip along Granite A starting with two Granite A down to the East Milton Square and then in in the East Milton Square vicinity incorporates um the limits of the East Milton Square mixeduse overlay that was approved by town meeting in June. Then sliding down to an area around Reedsdale and Pleasant
Streets. There's a couple of commercial buildings there already. And then lastly, an area along Route 28. Um, you know, primarily thinking about Newcome Farms. Um, but again, this is right now as written, the home rule petition allows in theory these to be anywhere in
Milton. What the committee has asked us is to say, okay, you can't do that. Can you narrow it some way? Um, this is no way implying that we're going to start issuing liquor licenses for all of these locations. the underlying zoning wouldn't allow that in the first place. This is more just saying we would have approval from the legislature to issue a
license in these areas to an entity that meets zoning, meets the requirements otherwise of the process. So, um it's a exercise they want us to go through. Um and that is a draft now. We can make it a prettier map with the assistance of
the GIS team. But I just wanted to um solicit feedback before we move to that stage. Other comments or questions? Is there a minimum a minimum uh area size that no rail guard rules were given to us?
Just not the whole thing. Just not the whole town was the bottom line. So I mean there are a couple of spots that have commercial on it. like I don't know if they're developable for mixed use, but um
the the corner of Blue Hill A and Brook Road, right? Like if that area were ever developed um where the Milton Food Mart is and I think there's like an abandoned building. I've heard people mention that as a potential development opportunity.
And then um I mean the other site could be the um the 7-Eleven at the intersection of Randolph and I have tried to capture that with the Pleasant area.
Um those were the those are the two questions I had. The first one I did not have but it could be extended um from the the so-called Matipan station area one. Could it be extended a little bit further? Uh, other questions or comments from the
members? Mr. Okay. So, just Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Mr. Daly. Now, what happens with these licenses? They're kind of stuck to these areas. If we have an entity not in an area not represented, what happens then?
Yeah. If a project came forward and they're outside and these are the zones that are approved, Yeah. for up to five additional licenses, we would have to go back to the old way, which is okay, we have a project, we have a location, let's go to town meeting, get approval, let's send it to the legislature for a special act.
So that is so to so to miss a site is tricky. Yes. Yeah. It really sets up a development opportunity or is like kind of I don't want to say
privileges some sites over others. I don't want to say that, but um without being too dramatic, it could it disadvantage some parts of town? It certainly could. Right. Yeah. And that's why, you know, being creative and trying to be generous with
locations. Um again, because we're we're not really all we're doing is narrowing where they could go anyway. So, I think being broad is is okay, right? Um because the risk of not being doing that is then we're we're going
through a longer lengthier process with somebody else. And and just to be clear for for uh everyone there's whoever is you know applying for this still has to go through the normal permitting process of making sure that they're zoned in the right building and and getting everything that they need as you know
victer's license and everything else. Correct. Yeah. All the regular approvals and land use requirements applies. All this just says is if you meet all those requirements, the select board may issue a license to you. Right? So, this does not mean that we're turning the Milton Village into,
you know, a bar district of uh of 50 bars. There's only five of these things for the whole town. Correct. And um and and we would still have the right of refusal on if we didn't if we didn't want to allow I mean, I guess it would still go it wouldn't be the select
board, though. That would be the ZBA or planning board, right? The the primary determinant would be do that you even have the zoning. Is a restaurant use allowed in any of these districts which a lot of them not necessarily. It's an allowed use in the business. We basically have five additional licenses that have to happen in one of
these areas basically. Yeah. Okay. Well, uh any other questions or comments from the members? Okay. So, we'll we'll formalize that and bring it back on the 22nd and then obviously if there are any additional thoughts in the meantime, reach out to
us and we can incorporate that. Did the planning board get a look at this? I have not shared it yet because I was starting here. I'm happy to distribute it. I think it would make sense to get the planning board input if they if they have any thoughts. Okay. So, I'll add I with I would say unless and and and
I'd let the group um correct me here. Our instinct is to be more inclusive with this than less inclusive because we we don't want to limit this and and we know that we'll still have the ability to ensure whomever is is utilizing one of these permits has is following all of the other procedures,
right? And the other thing too is it's five, you know, however many areas we have, it's five licenses. So, yeah. So, I think that that would be great. And if if they could look at it before uh our 22nd meeting and if they have any thoughts and you could incorporate those
uh and use the GIS team to make an a pretty map. Is this your handwriting, though? It's pretty It's good handwriting. Thank you. I like it. Everything I get from you, I guess, is typed. Um, okay. Uh, any other any other, uh, thoughts on this?
Um, uh, we have item nine, uh, discussion update, October 27th, fall special, 2025, fall special town meeting, potential warrant articles and timeline. Uh, not a ton from me. I just wanted to note um I'll distribute the alcohol and
town land bylaw which I I have not um and the lighting one I did reach out um as we had discussed I reached out to Miss Bradley today. So um we'll have those teed up for discussion on July 22nd. Those are the two specific
articles we talked about at our prior meeting June 30th. And then I think we just identified uh in our climate action uh some other potential uh articles. I'm sorry, Mr. Daily, did you have a Do we need to take a motion on the previous Oh, no. We're going to we're going to do
it on the 22nd once we've made the changes. All right. And uh and planning boards inputed. um any uh other warrant articles that are on people's minds that they would like to see included in the war.
So, there's talk from the um from the school building committee about bringing forward an article that would extend the um the land swap time because of the MSBA. Yeah. Okay.
Are they aware of the what what's our deadline to get art items to the warrant committee? Sounds like it's early August. August. Yeah. So, folks are working on a draft article. Okay. Just so nobody's caught off guard. No, good to know. That's why we have
this here. Uh other other uh warn articles that people are aware of. I'll just note that a couple that we had previously discussed and held off on were um
a uh a do accepting a statute that would allow for the establishment of an elderly and disabled taxation aid fund uh with the voluntary payments on the tax bills. Um we pulled it off the June warrant. Oh yeah. We had also talked about you know revocation and denial of licenses and permits for non-payment of taxes. it
wasn't a, you know, massively pressing issue, but it would be something I think we'd be seeking to um to adop accept as well. Um those both of those articles are basically drafted and and prepared, so I can include those on the agenda on the 22nd and and distribute them ahead
of time. Um let's do that because I know um for the sec the latter one in particular, I know the town treasurer was interested in that one. Y uh on both of them, she brought both to my attention. Okay. So that's kind of the working list. And then master plan implementation
committee um their term expires at the fall town meeting. So I believe they're working towards potential recommendation um for the master plan um and potential small updates to the master plan. Okay. So and those would be
it would be an article that that we would put forward on their behalf and pick would submit to the us. Okay. Y um Okay. Anything else on this one? Uh let's move ahead. Um
the uh update, approval, uh discussion, town council and labor council. Mr. Milano, I think nothing uh substantively different from my last update that we finished um interviews on on both town council and labor council. We're working towards a recommendation on labor council, working through reference
checks um before making a final recommendation. Um likewise for town council conducting reference checks for the firms that have submitted um prior to um a recommendation as to interviews for the select board. Um I'll just note
that throughout this discussion tonight we've talked about a number of potentially lengthier discussion items for July 22nd including if MASDOT attends um about Randolph A um select board landing committee or an update on the warf. We've been talking to the um
the police chief about having a one of his a departmental update um like Marina did um have Chief King come in. Um so I think we need to prioritize if we're also going to do two or three hours of interviews that would be a
marathon meeting or we could consider an alternative date for the interviews if if the board thinks those other items are more pressing. Um, but I I know we've continued to we've pushed off the town council stuff already. I just I
think some of these might dictate um triaging accordingly and I know John is traveling on the 22nd and to be there for the interviews in person does add a different kind of feel to it. So I I just want to be cognizant of that as well. So
um thoughts from the members integrity I mean it does it is a lot to do interviews I think we were doing two or three we're narrowing down to two or three finalists right and what's the duration of each
for us it was 45 to an hour per per firm is it so that's already like a nearly three-hour meeting potentially. Yep. Yeah. So, do we need a quorum for the interviews? That's again also up to the board. The
board could appoint a selection committee or a recommendation committee and say, you know, three or two members go interview and come back to us with a recommendation. Um, that is also an option. Um, I mean, I would be okay to give up a
couple of hours on a Saturday uh to to do interviews. Um, but I know that's a big ask in the summertime. Um, and I also don't know if we've got folks that are if if I I guess this is the question for the
board is we can either we probably either need if we want everybody to participate in this, I don't think it happens until August. If we'd rather move forward ahead with it quickly, it might make sense to appoint two people to sit in and make recommendations on an interview committee. And I'm I'm I'm
fine with either approach. I I think my perspective is I think it's probably better to get this issue settled sooner rather than later. Um but I you know we can we can discuss that as a board. Yeah, I'd be in agreement with that to
separate this from our standard meeting to have this on a different day if there are two or three of us that can make it and do the interviews, report back to the group on recommendations. Um definitely sooner than later. I think uh it's time for us to really get staffed up.
Okay. I think if we could get three people, we can post it as a meeting. Um it would have to be an executive session because we just have to ask the other firm to not listen in. Um but uh if there was a
Saturday, do we want to look at our calendars real fast? and Saturday is probably tough to get or sorry if weekdays are available it could certainly be a week a morning a weekday morning or a dedicated weekn night where we just the board just does
that um is an option as well. Um so uh and Mr. Cohane are you out the whole week of the 20th? I am. Yeah. Okay. Um, so maybe if we look is are is anybody out the week of the 28th?
I'm going to be gone on the first. The week of the 28th would work for me. I'm away that week. But But you're Are you here on the 28th? I am. And you're here on the 28th. We could do a morning that week.
A morning that week. Yeah. Um, how about the uh how's the Wednesday morning of the 30th look for folks if we want should we do 8 to 10 or something like that?
Is that too early? That's fine. Okay, let's uh let's say that for July 30th 8 to 10 and I can always set it up that if somebody is traveling they could zoom in and participate via Zoom. Okay. and it wouldn't be necessarily in this room. So, it might be a more um
watching this meeting from Zoom is not as you don't get the same ideal. So, if it were in a smaller group with a more we could be in the room or something. July morning of July 30th 8 to 10. So, this is town attorney interviews. Yeah. Um and then obviously we'll let um
uh Mr. Wells know about that too if he can join us. I'll be in Detroit. So it'll be like an hour early for me. Are you working there? Yeah. No, Detroit's on the same time zone. Oh, it is us. Yeah, my first. Yeah. I thought it was
The sun sets an hour later. It should be. Yeah, it's like on the bubble. Right on the line. We're We're really the one that's on the We're on the line just as much. We're really far east. They're very far west. Yeah, there's an ASHTO management administration management
conference. All right. Well, if you want some Detroit tips, talk. We'll do. Love the Motor City. Um, all right. So, I think we have 8 to 10. 8 to 10 on the 30th. I would hold 8 to 11. Okay. Thinking about just the mechanics of it.
Okay. All right. That I and I think what could come out of that as a recommendation and then the recommended firm come in to the to our next meeting as a final and a discussion with the board. Yeah. Yeah, sounds a good plan.
Great. Okay, thank you. You're very welcome. Uh, town administers evaluation. Administrator's evaluation. I will administer the administrator's evaluation. Um, so uh we're what we're going to do is uh
we had uh requests out for FY24 and FY25 um evaluations. Um I think I am the only person here who is really here for um the FY24 evaluation. I know Mr. Cohane, you are
working on the FY25 evaluation from your exchanges with uh with Carla. So um I uh if if you're okay with that, Mr. Milano, I'd like to just read uh what um how do you say Carla's last name? Is it Fetty? Feety.
Feety. Um I'd like to read what uh Miss Fiti wrote uh for your evaluation. Is that how I we haven't done this since I've been here so I'm not sure. I can also just provide a highlight of it. However you want to proceed I think just to note that it's not her evaluation of it's composed
it's her evaluation is composed of feedback that she received from members. So this is not although I will add on a on a side note that Miss Fit has told me that you are a fantastic boss and a great asset to the town and um and she um really enjoys working for you. So
So you're getting some 360. You get some free sugar with with this evaluation. Um and and that's not inconsistent with uh what I've heard from from other folks. So um I will just I'll I'll read through this quickly with no objections. Uh and then I do we need a motion on this? We
don't. Right. Oh no. Yeah, we do need a motion depending on the discussion. Correct. Um so um uh the evaluation period of July 20 uh July 1, 2023 to June 30, 2024. Um during the evaluation period above,
uh Nick Nicholas Milano, town ministry for the town of Milton, was assessed on key performance categories including individual characteristics, professional skills and status, relationship with elected members of the select board, policy execution, reporting, citizen relation, sorry, that's policy execution, comma, reporting, comma,
citizen relationships, staffing, supervision, fiscal management, community, and prior year goals. This evaluation was intended to be completed by uh five elected select board members for a comprehensive assessment of the town administrator. How only however only one evaluation was submitted by the
deadline. Um as a result this summary is based on one sole evaluation and um missy recommends that additional feedback continue to be collected uh for this. Um spoiler alert, it's me. Um based on the evaluation, Mr. Milano
consistently met expectations in most areas with particularly excellent attributes in policy execution and fiscal management as it relates to monitoring and managing the fiscal activities of the organization. The overall rating was satisfactory. Uh and no goals or accomplishments were
established for the subsequent fiscal year at FY25. Uh the feedback reflects overall satisfaction and that Mr. Milano continues to be an asset to the town. Thank you. So good job. Oh, there's some thunder. Hopefully that's not ominous.
What was that? Um, I would like to recommend So, um, so again, congratulations on a on a job well done for FY24. We're still a year behind on your evaluation. So, I'm hopeful that maybe we'll do that in August since it seems like the July 22nd
one is is jammed up. What I'd like to suggest to our uh group here is that we lay out some uh some goals or objectives that we might have for Mr. Milano for FY26. Um so that uh in addition to the sort of
standard uh job description. Um and it would probably be good to um to discuss your thoughts about goals or objectives with Mr. Milano in advance so that he's not surprised uh that we've tasked him with, for example, running a marathon uh on behalf of the town of Milton or
something like that. So which he pretty much does every day anyways. But uh I I think um it would be helpful for him and I think also helpful for the town for him to hear uh for them for for everyone to hear what our our goals and hopes are for Mr. Milano uh for this coming fiscal
year. Um knowing that we can't retroactively create goals uh for previous fiscal years. Any any is that all right for everyone? Yeah. And and I just want to say that in in my putting together the 25 review, you know, I have a whole bunch of
questions. I went through the the town meeting description and that's where the goals and objectives came from. We all need to do that and it's actually pretty good because even if we're new members, that's something we could do, you know. Um but that's clearly written out in it. And the other thing I'm working on with
um and I meant talked to Nick about it this morning um is the job description. We have a job description for the town administrator that's dates back to 2014 before all these were written and we need we really need to bring it up to date and we're working on that and those
are I I want to use kind of the urgency of this situation to get the evaluation done to get that completed also. Thanks. No, and I can add it to the list of goals and objectives. That's that's an easy one. We can take care of that. Um no, I appreciate it. And I think there's also the element of
the select board's own goals for what this board wants to try to accomplish and obviously that ties into what you set for me, but they can be kind of slightly different approaches um or they might have different kind of topics. So I thinking about that as well through
this process in terms of what you know nine months from now what does this board want to look back and say you know we we hit these marks we should have spent more time on these things. I think that will be valuable. Um, a retreat is always helpful to to have that kind of dialogue if we find a date in in
September to to to work on that. Um, and then lastly, you know, I know we're still somewhat new to working together and even Ben and John, it's only been a year or two, but if there are things that need to improve, things that need to change, things that aren't working
for you, this is, you know, any time is okay. Um, I really value that because it only is helpful to ensuring that you're getting what you need from me. Um, so, uh, don't be shy, I guess, is the bottom line. And, um, past board members have
have not been shy, and that's always been helpful, and I do appreciate that. So, I just wanted to make sure it's, um, that's clear that my expectations are to take back feedback so that we're all working well together um, and we're, you know, moving together at the same
kind of speed. Mr. It's good for everybody. It's definitely good for everybody. Um, okay. I think that satisfies that uh agenda item. Um, we don't need a Do we don't need a motion on that, do we? Just to accept the uh the board should vote to accept the
evaluation. Okay. Yeah. Um, so, uh, as it was my evaluation, I'll make a motion to accept the evaluation. Second. Uh, okay. Any further discussion? All in favor? I I I Okay, that's unanimous. Keep up the good
work, Nick. Thank you. Um and uh speaking of good work, we're going to slide right into the town administrator's report. Thank you. Um I know I've mentioned these at our last couple meetings, but I just wanted to reiterate that Alex Ortiz um has started as the town's Milton
Randolph, director of veteran services. He was in Milton today. Um the office is still undergoing some renovation. So he hasn't quite moved into his uh revised and improved digs here in the Council on Aging. Um but he's at work. He's been
reaching out to folks um getting caught up to speed. He's already certified with the state um to be a VSO in Massachusetts um going through requirements with the VA to be able to support and and administer VA claims on behalf of uh both Milton and Randolph residents. He'll be in Milton um
Tuesdays and Thursdays. um and has his email set up which is a Ortiz at Town of Milton. Um his phone is is set up uh so you can track him down if you need him. Um he's already connected with um Lisa Hearn, the director of the cemetery, connected with the American Legion um
just now. I saw an email come through. Um so we're starting those connections and we'll continue to build that out um as he takes over the role. Uh so we're excited to have him um and welcome him and and I did mention um a brief introduction potentially on July 22nd um so that the board can uh put a face to a
name as well. Um Michael White will start on Monday as the new building commissioner. Um that position has been vacant since December. So we're uh excited to have that office back up to the staffing that it needs to be at. Um, I just want to take a moment to note
that we have two part-time local inspectors who are also certified as commissioners um, Walter White and Jay Below who um, have been putting in many many hours um, in the vacancy um, to
keep things moving, to keep permits going out the door, to keep inspections going. So um, that entire office uh, we're grateful for their work uh, but specifically Walter and Jay for all that they've done. um you know and we had a previously a previous vacancy when Joe
Pond left and they both stepped up then as well. So um just want to acknowledge the work that they do um and that we would be in a much tougher shape without uh their work. Uh director of planning and community
development still vacant uh still accepting applications. town engineer likewise uh and the assistant director of planning um Cheyenne Fraser who I've mentioned will be leaving uh Milton um on July 25th. Um so we'll be posting for that job. The plan is hopefully to get
the director position filled first um and go from there. Lastly, I think it as the chair noted at the outside of the meeting that this was a busy weekend in Milton um between the crash on Randolph A and the incident at the Wararf. Um, from all accounts that was a really
tough scene on Randle FAF. So, just want to note and appreciate um, you know, the Milton Police, Milton Fire, Coastal Ambulance who all responded to what was um, a very tough scene. Um, so we acknowledge those efforts and their service. And then, um, Milton Police
detectives and officers have had a busy stretch here um, with a lot going on. We hope to uh, get back to the more quieter times in Milton. Um but um do appreciate their work on behalf of the town. Um those calls are always tough and it
demands a lot and demands a lot of work hours. Um and I should also note Milton auxiliary folks were out uh at both scenes um with lighting and cones and other support. So uh appreciate everybody's work over the weekend and that's it for me, Mr. Chair.
Uh thank you. Any questions for Mr. Milano on his report? Uh is there anything we can do to spur some interest in this director planning role? We are um we have posted it everywhere. We've
advertised it everywhere numerously um numerous times I should say. I think um I think uncertainty around MBTA communities was a factor and and kind of um that being answered hopefully will um
trigger some renewed interest. I'll note we've we've had first round interviews with two candidates. We're going through additional interviews with those candidates. So we um we have candidates that we've been looking at and interviewing which is good. Um, but it has been vacant since Tim's last day was
in November of 24. So, um, it's been a lengthy vacancy. Um, and I think it's more about kind of I attribute to a lot to uncertainty as to what what's going to go on. You I think now that there's been some resolution and finality that
might um spur additional interest if but I like I said, we have candidates that we are in the process of interviewing uh currently. I'll just just add to to that point, the town engineer has been vacant since Marina moved into the DPW director role, which she took over in December. Um, so
that's another lengthy vacancy. We've um had a couple conversations with um firms that do um municipal recruitments to to think about whether that it's not so much a head hunter and I don't want to attribute that, but you know, bring in somebody
that has a network of people that can um support our efforts to attract and and recruit and steal somebody from another community. Um so that is entice them to come. Entice them to come, right? Um, so speaking of enticement, I mean, how does
So, you know, I I have experience in this, um, maybe enticing, you know, folks from municipalities to the state. Um, how does our salary measure up? Because there's
there's an incredibly tight labor market for pees. I'm assuming that this person has to be a PE. PE preferred. We would really we would truly prefer it, but we're open to marine is a PE, correct? Right. Yeah. Um,
yeah. I mean, I I just I don't know if the It's been a very competitive labor market. Um, so I don't know. It's a Yeah. And for Milton, um, this position as well as the planning
director and a lot of those management department head positions are covered by a collective bargaining um, agreement. So it it does limit our flexibility to a degree. Yeah. Um, we had approached that unit to reclass the town engineer position um to
change the salary range for it and they they were amendable to that. So that where it's posted at now as an increased range that reflected some salary survey that we did to to compare us elsewhere. Um, but that is there's a limit to that
um as well, but we're um again trying to be a little bit more proactive and and team up with somebody potentially to facilitate a recruitment effort. That sounds like a good idea. Is it like a um is it like a like one of those like municipal groups that like does like the
town administrator type searches? Right. There's only like a handful of them, three or four of them that do this work. Okay. So, it's like one of those. Okay. Will you update us on any um discussions with that? Okay. It it it's promising
we've got a couple of candidates though, at least for Okay, great. Um any other questions for or comments for Mr. Milano? You know, I just would like to add, you know, Mr. Milano rightly pointed out the hard work that the public safety teams
put into that crash. Um, and you know, those those types of scenes um can be really traumatizing for the frontline employees and any um bystanders or residents who may have
witnessed it. Um, you know, it it shouldn't go unnoticed and I don't think it goes unnoticed that three lives were lost um on that roadway. Um, and you know, I I think it's um I I just
think it's important to recognize that um as we as we go forward and try to figure out what the next right steps are for that that um this is about preventing something like that from
happening again. Yeah, if I could if I could I was going to wait till public comment response, but if I could add to what's been said um already. I think about this as being a particularly heavy year in the time here
in Milton. We've lost um we've lost a student, a young person. Uh we've had two horrible instances of domestic violence. Uh we've had this accident on Randolph A. we've had um the shooting now at the warf and I think there is a
you know we we battled over MBTA communities. So I think there's a there's a certain heaviness that currently sits with us in the community and I want everyone to know I think we're all trying to say that is that the select board does not uh we're aware of it. Um, obviously we're working and we
care a lot about safety, not only down at the warf, not only for our families here, but also on our roadways and for our students. And so don't think that we uh don't see these things and that we don't care. Um, we are certainly working to make sure that everyone feels that they have a high quality of life here
and a certain uh level of safety that's afforded to them. Uh, just let everyone know I reached out just to the um chief engineer at Masdot hoping to start a another conversation about where we are, whether it's going to be a date on the Rotary or an update as to where um we
stand. And so some of our community concerns um can be heard so that we can start to not have that roadway feel as dangerous as it feels right now, especially in this time. So, uh I wanted to share that because I I feel that heaviness as a as a citizen here as
well. Um it's so it's well said, Mr. Cohen. And and yes, thank you. And and um I I wanted to say too that um one of the residents at 88 W reached out to Ben. Ben and I spoke. I'm I've responded to him. I have a phone call scheduled with
him tomorrow to talk about what steps we can take for the 88 that incident that happened down there. So we are like you said, we're listening, concerned, and taking action. Uh well, maybe I'll move to the chair's
report because I was going to say some similar stuff. Um but I I I don't know that I need to repeat what everyone said. I think it was very well said by by all three members here. Um you know, um I might add that um you know, the way
that the select board works, you know, we follow our open meeting law and our posting guidelines. So uh and we meet on Tuesdays. So, if something bad happens on a Friday and we've got our next meeting the following Tuesday, it uh becomes difficult to address it in in a
in a very formal way as an agenda item, we can't we can and we've kind of moved public comment response to town administrators report, but we can certainly respond to uh to to public comment. Um but that th those laws are there for a good reason and they also
don't prevent us from starting to work on issues immediately as as we become a uh aware of them. So I know you know with uh with the accident on Randolph which was terrible um conversations from Mr. Milano and and the chief um and and
Mr. Madden uh the chief of the fire uh started already uh basically like day of and continued throughout the weekend. Um we've been receiving um uh comments from our uh from neighbors about both uh the accident as well as the incident at the
warf. I've went down to the wararf uh today to uh to meet with a few folks. Um so we are here to listen to you. Just because it's not on the agenda doesn't mean that we're not thinking about it and working on it. Um we all four of us and Mr. Wells to obviously uh think and
work uh about Milton all the time and uh and and we're here for you know as volunteers and uh if you have thoughts or anything that's concerning you to Mr. Dy's point we are all feeling pretty heavy uh there's a lot of stuff happening nationally uh as well as the
stuff that's happening locally. Um, but the way that we get through things is as a community working together. Uh, and so I hope that we can continue to do that and I hope that this board continues to model that even when we disagree. Um, I don't know if anybody has any
that's basically my chair's report. I don't have much else to add. Um, any uh anything else from the um public comment response that people wanted to to chime in? Um, and then Mr. Mr. Milano, I on Oh,
sorry. Put your hand up. Um on my sheet here, I have the future meeting date of July 22nd. Yes. Um I believe that there was a consensus that uh so we now have uh July 30th as a
posted meeting for um the uh attorney interviews. Correct. Um, and my understanding is that the uh f first meeting of August uh it looks like there's just going to be multiple conflicts, multiple conflicts. So, we're going to not have a meeting on the 12th of
August. Um, so, uh, our next then regularly scheduled meeting would be on August 26th. Correct. 5th. 6. Six. Yeah. Um, I'll just note that it'll be a pretty lengthy gap between the 22nd and
the 26th. And um, it may be helpful to try to find some time in that range to move some warrant articles over to the warrant committee if we can at our the 22nd meeting. Um, so but I can I can regroup with the members and try to find
um an alternative time that might work. Yeah. And I I was also thinking that, you know, if there is anything that not that we're ever a rubber stamp, but something that that just needs our action, we could also um handle that on the 30th. Y um but I maybe for warrant articles it
would be better to have a a standalone. Sure. Okay. Um and then future agenda items. Uh I have a few of those, but they don't need to be perhaps it's best for August, but there was a couple things that I
wanted us to start thinking about. please. Um, one, um, how do we start moving forward on the fire station at the RFP? What are our next steps there? Um, John, um, for East Milton, I'm not sure, uh, I'm thinking that we need to do some
form of outreach for folks in East Milton. So, what would they want that building to become? Um, so that can inform some of our RFP process, but so that we formalize that in a meeting. Um, two, uh, granite links. They sent an email about their lease,
but we should possibly engage when thinking about the lease and also some potential for changes in land if there's some land that could be that could be freed there for us um in town to perhaps use as parkland. I think there's some review under lease that can be done. And
then three, uh moving on what are our next steps on town farm. Mhm. Uh I think that's a discussion with the group that we have left. Uh in terms of
scope, uh do we want to do the feasibility study? Do we have folks that are already here that can handle some version of this feasibility study about the roads? And do we actually want to move forward and can we move forward with the RFP? Is it possible to have fewer units? Does it not work for them
financially? What are their costs now since the RFP sent out and sort of formalizing our next steps on that. It's a lot and I don't think we can get to that on the 22nd, right? Yes. And I think we had talked about having Governor Stoton on the 22nd already. Was that factored into your
agenda? Yes, because I had some deliverables to get back to. So, I had tentatively marked it down, but obviously with the town council thing, I wasn't sure how much we'd get to, but if that comes off, that gives us a little bit more bandwidth um to open. I think we should keep it on just to do
some at least some housekeeping on it. And then if we don't have any hard conclusions, it's not not a bad idea to include it. Okay. Um other future agenda items. Mr. Cohen, we had discussed the uh meeting minutes and that is that something we want to put on this next agenda or
Yeah. So I think we would do an exact session for our 22nd to meeting minute and approval uh for uh at least the uh um the last two um executive sessions. Sure. And approving release of them. and
improving release. Yes. So, we have we we would meet. Could we um it's going to be the 22nd just you know be come drink some coffee. Um will would we be able to go into open session after executive session to then announce that they've been released or
do we have to I don't know that that action is required. I think once they're voted they're now they're public at that point. Great. Okay. That was my that was my uh big question on that. And did we want to have some discussion at that about just meeting minutes in general or is that something
oh the uh you know just preparation of meeting minutes and when they get released and you know what I mean how we had I think we can do that. I think so Mr. Cohane and Mr. Milano and I've been on an email um thread about um the sort of
um meeting minutes and the timing for them and everything. Um, it's nothing is uh nothing about Ms. uh about Lynn who does a fabulous job uh with everything and was on a very very well-deserved vacation to the Cape uh this past week.
I think just sort of clarifying like what's the timeline for uh minutes is probably a good idea and process and improving our processes a little bit where we can. Yeah. So, I think um if we can why don't let's Mr. Mr. Cohane and I can have our usual planning meeting with you on the
agenda and then although we'll have to do that before I leave for uh for my vacation. Okay. Um but we we can have a planning meeting with Nick and we can just look at the agenda and see if we can fit it in there. Otherwise, that could be something that we do administratively on the 30th. Okay. Um 30th is getting longer than two hours.
I know. Um and then uh I do have one future agenda item myself. I'm sorry, Miss Hagerty, do you have any future agenda items? Um I I along with many other folks have been um very concerned about the activities of ICE uh and
particularly in their recent budget uh increase and the activities that we've seen in the Commonwealth knowing that we have a target on our backs. Um there is an organization called Loose Luc that has been coordinating a lot of the ICE responses. Uh and I would like to invite
them to come to a future meeting. Uh originally I was thinking maybe the 22nd, but I don't think that's going to work now. Um, but uh I I would uh I've heard concerns from many folks about what we can do as a town uh to prevent
um what is essentially kidnapping uh taking place. It's probably also a good idea to have Chief King I agree sort of that's why I was thinking it might make sense for run us through the what are the protocols when ICE shows up.
Yes. And I've I've spoken with him about it. I I think that would be helpful, too. So, um maybe what we could think about is if Chief King's coming to the landing committee meeting uh next week. Well, no, I'd still like him to come on the 22nd to talk about the incident at the warf. Um we might just have to ask
him to come back again for that meeting. Okay. I'm familiar with Lewis. My family, we have a text chain and we're always discussing it. Yeah. Great. Good. All right. So, um so that's my suggestion. Any anything else for that? So something something that's you
know I'm concerned about I don't think it I think it probably goes to the the budget coordination committee but with you know in the federal landscape cuts going to um
the DOE you know how does that I don't know if anybody's been tracking that yet and I'm sure the school committee is looking at it and MPS is looking at it but at some point We may just want to understand if there are any known impacts or potential risks.
I think that's a great suggestion. Maybe we could have um Miss Dexter join us for that second half of August meeting if she has an opportunity to kind of um understand what the impacts are of this recently signed bill and the cuts that have been made. It's certainly
a Katie Blake and John Failen Kat more direct conversation and I can um but we can kind of think about um a way to share that information and um I'm sure they're working to report to the school committee and so we can work in terms of um coordination on that
and there may not be much that's understood right now because I I think Desi might be processing it themselves. Yeah. Okay. Do we have a um if I remember from last year, do we have a July 15th deadline for budget submission to the state or what is that? What was
that? Yes. For just for like the transfers between departments and the finance committee is going to take those up on Friday. That's moving money one spot to another. So, and then the fiscal year until Friday to do the moving. We have
until the 15th to make any final changes to the fiscal 25 budget and then it's set in stone after that. Okay. And we're good on that front. We don't need to Yes. And actually our forecasting um was conservative so everything looks
slightly more optimistic than when I last reported. That's always nice. Yes. Um I'm assuming Mr. Milano that we're going to have our um I don't we don't need to with the next um round of meetings is until after our
next meeting. Um I don't have a I don't have much of an update at all tonight for executive session. So we can forgo it. So let's forgo the u executive session. I will take a motion to adjurnn. Oh, sorry. Uh I'll second. Made and second made by Mr. Daly,
seconded by Miss Hagerty. Uh, all in favor? I I uh I Yeah, you want to stick around? No, I'm still shocked. I'm still shocked. All right, we are journed. Thank you everyone for joining us online and we will see you again on the 22nd. Part: 2
All right, we're good. So, why don't we uh get started? Uh good good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to uh the July 8th, 2025 meeting of the Milton Town Conservation Commission. Commission members are appointed by the select board to implement the rules and regulations of the state state wetlands
protection act and the Milton town bylaw governing the wetlands. As a matter of formality, number one, we ask everybody and anybody to to talk, ask questions, make comments, but please for recordeping purposes identify yourself. Um second matter of formality, we
introduce ourselves. Uh my name is John Kieran the commission member and I'm going to go right across the stop top. Steve uh Steve Ibis conservation agent. Thank you. Arthur Arthur Doyle commission member.
Thank you. Jolly Charlie Bosworth commission member. Thanks Joey. Wendy. Good evening. I'm Wendy Garpo. One of the commissioners. Thank you, Wendy and Tom.
Tom Palmer, commission member. Oh, thanks, Tom. All right, we're ready to go. First one, certificate of compliance at 21 Low Circle. Do we have a presenter? Uh, yes. Joe Morrison from 21 Low Circle. Thanks, Joe, for coming tonight.
Appreciate it. Sorry for the wait. Not at all. Iron, can you tell us uh what you've done? I know you're looking for a certificate of compliance. Uh yes, and I do remember being at your house and I think some of the other commission members do as well. Okay. Yes. So it was uh a little bit of
time has passed actually since I um received the orders of condition. That was back in uh end of July 2021. Um and then I did uh shortly after that in August of 2021, I did have uh two
trees removed. There were three trunks. one was a split trunk um and removed those um and I was under a lot of pressure at home to get those trees down uh but wasn't under quite as much pressure at home to filer for for this ticket of compliance. So
you are you are a diplomat, Joe. You understand? But I but I finally got around to it and um provided the asbuilt plan uh showing the the three trunks that were removed um and then submitted the certificate of
um compliance uh in March of earlier this year, but was unable to attend the June meeting. So here I am tonight. All right. Thank you. And um uh I did check with Philip, he's not here, but I I think one of the orders of
condition was that if you did not replant, then you would uh pay a a dollar contribution in lie of the tree plantings. Are that correct? That's correct. Yes. And that that payment was made before the order of conditions was recorded. So um it was in
the amount of 12,500 and that was issued in in July of 2021. All right. And uh uh I check with uh not that I doubted you, but I do have to check check with Philip and he said yes indeed you're correct. Check cleared and everything. Uh so the payment was made. So we thank you for
that. Um I know Steve have there's no need to it because we approved the removal of the trees. But have you been out to the to the site, Steve? Uh yes, and they they're gone. They're not there any longer. Good. We've confirmed that. And the
money's in bank. So any questions from commissioners? Um any abutters members of the public? With that is a motion to issue the certificate of compliance. It appears all is uh all is well and Philip
Driscoll has attested to that fact. Uh so is there a motion to approve the certificate of compliance? So move, Mr. Chairman. All right. Thank you, Mr. Doyle. Uh second. Second. All right. Thanks, Charlie. Any discussion?
Uh, all in favor? Arthur? Yes. Jolly? Yes. Tom, yes. Wendy, yes. And, uh, Ingred, thank you for joining us. I know you had a problem getting in. Yeah. Thanks for uh, Wendy for sending
that alternate link. All right. I I couldn't tell if you heard any of that. This is a certificate of compliance. I didn't I I have the papers in front of me, but I I didn't hear it. just came in when you started the roll call vote. Okay. Um what it it's it's easy because
we were there in July of 2021. Um a homeowner wanted to take some uh trees down. We allowed it. Uh there was a tree plant replacement. There were a lot of trees. Um and in lie of that he made a contribution of $12,500
the town to the tree bank. Um, and that's there and it's been confirmed by Philip Driscoll. So, the motion was made by Arthur, seconded by Charlie to approve the certificate of compliance. Any comments, questions or a vote?
No comments. And uh, I agree. Okay. And I join Karen and in agreement as well. Joel, thank you very much. You're good to go. You've got your certificate of compliance. Phil is not back on yet. He will come on. Um, but if you call uh Phil and if you don't have the number, I'll give it to you, but he
can get the certificate of compliance uh to you. All right. Terrific. Thanks for your help. All right. Great. Thank you. Next on the agenda is uh request for determination of applicability 681, 695,
and 725 Hillside Street. And who is the presenter this evening? Do we know? I do not, John. I thought we had um
somebody there was a very active involved group when we did the barn uh rehab maybe what three years ago. Yeah. I I can't remember. There was that team there. They're actually pretty good. I I I don't mean to say that was surprised.
They were good though. Um, so I'm surprised they're not here because my question to them was, "This looks like uh some kind of a a Wi-Fi enhancement or um that's that's exactly correct, John." That's how it was described to me.
Okay. It says EIT 622 Blue Hill Blue Hills Connectivity Project. Um, every everything is here. It it's I I read these uh and there there are two of them. One is at H Hotton's Pond and one is at the state
police barracks and it it kind of it's a trench that circles the the barn that's been rehabbed. Um so it seemed to make sense to me but I I am los to do this without somebody asking for it. Um and
I've got um Alexander Kenneth Keis who is agent for the Joseph Body Company. Yes, that's the man I spoke with. Okay. All right. Um I don't know if everybody's had a chance to read the the
submittals. They looked to be in line uh with me. Um so I don't have any issues, but what I I think it's appropriate that the applicant apply for the for the permit. Um so what
I suggest is that we may we I'm sorry, Tom. Were you saying something? Uh, no. I just unmuted. I would uh incidentally remark that I read the papers, but I could not tell what the project was. It was confusing to me. I
think you're suggesting that it might be a trench for a cable or something. I I didn't really gather that. I did look at the aerial photos that shows three sites, including another one that you didn't mention, namely the the yard for
that's behind the police station, the DCR maintenance yard. Yeah, that's part of it, too. Yes. So, yeah, I would say that I don't know where the project is now, and I think we ought to um sort of put aside till we have
representatives One of the things we could do and at the end of the meeting under additional business, I'm going to request that we have a special meeting uh this month sometime before the 1 of August for purposes of joining the select board and
recommending to um both the state agencies uh the governor and to the EPA that they select is actually the most aggressive cleanup uh option for the uh Nepons. super fun site and I've talked to Nick.
I've got the letter. I'll send the letter to you, but you do have to read the report and I'd like to be able to take a vote. Um, and it's not on the agenda, so we can't do it tonight. So, what I'm suggesting is we could do it and announce it on the date in July that
we meet on site uh at the state police barracks. Um, so can is if everybody's okay with that, I think it makes sense. Yeah. Although I haven't seen the documents you're talking about. Oh, you mean for the the resolution to
support the uh EPA cleanup? I'll I will send those super fun, right? I'll I'll send that tomorrow morning. The the actual report is pretty lengthy, but I'll send you a summary of it and then the select board's letter. Um, and I I can I can address it now or
additional business, but my only concern uh this is the the second phase of the cleanup. My only concern is the time of it because they're going to take out the tilling tillings whatever that first dam is.
And when they take the dam, it will release the PCBs. And I just want to make sure that it's not at the hatching season for the smelt downstream of the Adam Street dam. Um, and I think that can be done. We can coordinate with
CZM, but I just like to make sure that the EPA folks appreciate I've talked to them about it, so I know they appreciate it, but I just want to make sure that the timing of the dam removal is consistent with the hatching of the spawning of the smell. Do you want two
things if I may? Your phone may be on my phone. No, it's Tom. Oh, it's not Tom. Yeah, it's Tom's phone. Okay, we're good. Thanks. Good. Thanks.
So, what what about calendars? Is there a time next Saturday? Can we do it next Saturday? We're going to have some other site visits, by the way. So, just look at your calendars. Uh I I don't have the
dates in front of me, but um what are the the three Saturdays we're looking at? 12 12 and 19 and 26. John, those are the three Saturdays coming up. Okay. I I can do 26.
I I can do any one of those three. So, Arthur, can you do one of those three or all of them? I can do uh 12 and 19. The 19th. Okay. Um Charlie, can you do the 19th?
You're on talking, but he's on. He's still on mute, Charlie. No, now he turned off his video. Right. It's the next button. You're hiding, Charlie.
Hey, you're back. We still can't hear you. You're still on you, Charlie. All right. So, a thumbs up for the 19th or or thumbs down? He's good for the 19th. All right. Uh
Ingred, are you uh can you make the 19th? I can do the 19th, I think. Good. Thanks, Tom. You're muted, Tom. 19th is okay. Hear that? Perfect. Thank you, Wendy. Do you hear me?
Yes, we we heard you, Tom. Thank you. Unfortunately, I I won't be available um any weekend until the end of August. Oh, okay. All right. So, uh then we're on for the 19th. Um and we'll figure out when to um
you know when when and where to meet. We'll try to do 8:30 somewhere, but we haven't this doesn't need a particular location. So, we'll add that. for Philip, if you could add to the agenda the um uh EPA resolution for the uh the second phase cleanup.
Okay. Resolution uh to support their their efforts. Um and then we can just save that date. So it'll be July 19th. Uh and when we get to the the next point on the agenda, we can do that. So Philip, will
you contact this Alexander Kenneth? He is the agent for the Joe Joseph Body Company. Okay. and ask him to meet us on site on u uh July well that that's us site visit July 19th 8:30 at the state police
barracks or at the at the barn I guess is the place to go. Okay. All right. Perfect. All right. Good. Thanks all. Uh next agenda is Yes. John question. Yes. Um, how much if any cleanup has
been done from Mother Brook down to the Hollingsworth Dam? I I think the studies quite a quite a bit. No, they're beyond the study. I think that they already did Mother Brook and then I think they got phase
one. Um, from Mother Brook to the Dan. Uh, no, that's they did that. Uh it it they did that site on the bank you can see from the Fairmont app bridge that old industrial
site that's finished I think that wasn't part of the bed of the river but that was a place I worked for several years. Right. And and this plan they've got a staging uh proposal for the area where
the Patriot factory was the paper factory. That's their staging area. So this they've done the mother brook they've done some work on this phase one but this is to get all the way up to the dam and to remove the dam. Right. And NEPA is supporting this.
Yes. So I and and the select board is supporting this. Correct. But I'll send the the data out for your look see before the n Oh, I'll do it tomorrow. But we ought to be up to speed by the 19th. But I wanted to go back to your comment that if the dam comes down
that it's going to release PCBs etc. Yes. And other chemicals into the next leg of the deposit river. Yes. But if that section is predominantly cleaned up, there wouldn't be much in the way of
release. Most of the most of the contaminants are in the sediment right behind right just upstream of the dam. So they're approaching the dam. Yeah. But when they knock the dam down there's going to be they're trying to capture it but it's impossible
before they destroy the dam. Yes. Correct. They're trying to get as much out before they destroy the dam. The faster they do that the better because that dam based upon the fact that when we were last there we saw that it was deteriorating very significantly.
Yes. And there's one hypothesis that a reason why water was going over the Baker Dam this past spring, early spring, was because there was an increase in the flow of water coming from the Hollingsworth Dam because of
the disrepair of that dam at the present time. And that that breach is just going to continue to grow. So that it's a really complex situation. the dam is gonna go by its own devices
or by devices. I agree, Tom. I I I think there's some background noise coming from your mic. Is there any way you can Yeah. fix that? Can Can you hear me now?
Can you hear me now? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. The noise is the noise. The noise is the fan on my computer which is close enough to the mic that it gets picked
up. What do you hear when I'm not muted? Uh, it sounds like underwater. Cavitation. White noise. Cavitation. Ah, it's just like white noise. It's a fan. But that's why I keep muting myself
and I'm sorry about this. You know, I don't know what more to do, but I'm going to mute myself again and you should not hear it. Okay. Thanks, Don. Okay. Uh, are we good? Uh, because we just took care of both the state police barracks and H Hotton's Pond. Uh,
because that's up that trench is up near where that uh there's a boardwalk that we approved next to what's it called? Maragold Meadow. Maragold Marsh Marsh, right? Yeah. So, the same area, but we can they're right across the street and up, you know, a few hundred yards. So, we can
hit them both at uh that the 19th at 8:30. Uh that's one, two, three. Next on the agenda, certificate of compliance at 1362 Canton Avenue. And who is appearing for that? George Collins.
Mr. Chairman, uh George Collins. Welcome, George. Thank you. And y'all looking for a certificate of compliance? Yes. Yep. This is a septic upgrade performed on uh site inspection. The
grass is uh has been is established in the rear of the property where there was uh where we ran the force man. There's kind of some unusual sloping. Uh we you know put placed wood chips. So the entire the entire site is stabilized at
this point. Perfect. Can you uh I don't know if the other people remember it, but if you're facing the house, uh I guess the pump station is sort of to the back left and it circles around behind the house to the right hand side of the house if you're looking at the front door and and
then it goes to the leeching field. But I think you were going to consider putting in a stub because we approved it heading off towards that barn where there's an apartment. Was that done as well? Yes. Yep. We put in the stub and the stub extends out of jurisdiction. That
way if they do decide to put in any plumbing in the um in the barn, they don't have to come back to conservation. Right. That that's I thought that made sense. Good. Steve, have you been there to to look at this? I have and it's stabilized just fine.
Thank you, George. Thank you. Good. All right. and and George has submitted a letter of attestation that this is in substantial compliance with the order of conditions. Correct? Yes. Yes. I'm reading it's in my hand. So that was
a rhetorical question. Uh are there any questions by commissioners members of the public? Hearing none, seeing no hands raised. Is there a motion to uh issue the certificate of compliance?
Anybody? So move, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Doyle. Is there a second for this? Second. Thanks, Charlie. Um, any discussion?
Okay, we'll go a roll call vote. Arthur, how do you vote? Yes. Tom, yes. Thank you, Jolly. Yes. Ingred, yes.
Thank you, Ingred. Wendy, yes. Perfect. And I join Karen and vote yes as well. So, that's unanimous. Uh, thank you, George. You have your certificate of compliance. Thank you. All right. Next on the agenda is
uh 1395 Canton Avenue and that is a notice of intent and brought to us by none other than Mr. Collins. Okay. Can you tell us about this project? Sure. Um if if I could be allow allowed
to share. Just gave it to you, George. Try it now. Okay, here we go. Good. So, um, yeah. So, uh, for the record, my name is
George Collins from Collins Civil Engineering Group. I'm representing Angus Walker, the owner of 1395 Canton Avenue for a notice of intent associated with the upgrade of an existing septic system that's in failure.
Um, and uh I do have just to be forthcoming with everybody. Uh, this is a uh I it's one of those theory and application situations. I went out um we did the design. We staked everything out. I actually went out to the property
earlier this week and um and what is we're a little close to like a 20inch tree. So, if I'm gonna zoom in here. Um, well, you know what? I apologize. I'm gonna I'm just going to do my regular
presentation first and then I'm going to just go over uh over some uh over what's been changed on this plan. So, so basically, um this property is on the um northwest
side of Canton A. Um and this back here is the Ballister Brook. Um the 100 foot inner riparian zone resource limit is this line here. The 200 foot outer
riparian zone resource limit is here. There's also a bordering vegetative ratland line here. The orange is the 50 foot buffer zone and the magenta is the 100 foot buffer zone. And just a little
uh um wetland trivia. Uh you know, basically any septic system that was installed on a lot that was developed prior to 1996 is exempt uh septic upgrade is an exempt
activity from the Rivers Protection Act. Um so basically if the lot was if the lot was subdivided prior to 1996 then um although we show the um resource
limits it's an exempt activity. Um and then also should be noted that this plan has been approved by the board of health. Um also the project has been issued uh D file number 46-655.
So, um, so basically this is it's kind of an oddball site. We have a drain line that runs through here and discharges into the brook uh that that captures storm water runoff from the street. Um, we also have
a a right of way here. I don't think it's kind of extinguished. It's uh but it is on the plan of land. Um and uh so and this is the lot line here. So basically up in this area here that
was not an option as far as putting the septic system. We need to be 20 ft off the foundation. We need to be 10 feet off the lot line. So basically the the we just lacked the geometry to fit a septic system in this area. Um this is
the failed cesspool. Um so what we did is we dug test pits in this area which is in an existing lawn area. Um and we were able to come up with a septic septic system that work by gravity and um and
put the leeching field in this area. Um this dashed line is the um erosion control. We have an 8 inch diameter straw water proposed. And I'm now I'm going to zoom in on this a little bit just to show you. So again,
it's one of those things. It worked great on in theory on the computer, but when I went out after we staked everything out, we realized there's a 20inch tree right here that was right at the edge of the overdig. And then there's also a seveninch tree
here. So, what I'm proposing, um, and obviously we're going to be conducting a site visit, and I can modify the plan between now and then. What I've done is I've held this corner and I've rotated the system 10 feet, uh, clockwise. And what that does is it preserves that
20inch tree. So, this is just kind of one of those things. We staked everything out last week. I did a site visit and I realized, geez, if we rotated the system a little bit, we can avoid that tree. And then and then again we do have like a seven
inch tree here. So um again so when we when we conduct the site visit I can have the plans modified so we can stay away from that 20-inch tree. This 7in tree there's really not a whole lot that we can do. Um even if we shifted it as
far as we could in this direction I don't think we would get far enough away from that seveninch tree to preserve it. Um, but basically right here is the edge of lawn. It's kind of hard to see because there's a lot going on here, but um, you know, basically the new septic
system would go in here and it would be actually more in the existing lawn area and away from that 20-inch tree. Um, so that's kind of the one little oddball thing that I'm throwing a little curveball at you this evening.
But I just felt like this was a good location. Again, it's in the existing lawn area and we're going to have to take down one 7inch tree. And that being said, is that is that something that you would want us to provide planting
mitigations for that seveninch tree? It's really it I don't know what type of a tree it is, but it's really from what I can see, it's nothing special, but I am not an aberist. So yeah, it it looks like you're within the
100 foot BVW buffer. So the answer is yes, we would expect mediation mitigation. Sorry. Okay. So what would we So I could like maybe plant four 2-in caliber trees or something like that to make up for the seven inch or or seven smaller. Uh would
it have to be trees or would it could it be uh shrubs? Um well the standard is and we actually we tried to shift it to uh circumference at breast height but everybody kind of diverts or defaults to diameter at
breast height and it doesn't make a difference mathematically. It would have to be, you know, what, three and a half or maybe four. Depends on how big the caliber is, but you could have, you know, two threes and, you know, a oneinch tree to get to your seven. But
there would have to be the equivalent of the diameter. Yeah. Replanted. And the answer to your question about can you exchange that for um shrubs? The answer is yes. And we we do we do have a performance standard. There's actually six, not three. I I saw
somebody wrote down three tonight, but um it's actually six shrubs per tree. Um so that would be and it it doesn't sound like a lot. I mean, the yard looks like it's big enough that Yeah. And is that something that we would prefer to plant down by the
wetland probably in this area? Yeah, that'd be good with us. Well, I I don't mean to speak for others, but that's fine. And I, you know, I I apologize that I'm not as prepared as I could be uh because I honestly I just realized that we had the tree conflict like two days ago,
but I could what I could do is bring the modified plan to the site visit. Um and then I could um I apologize. How many how many plants, shrubs did you say per tree? Six per tree.
Okay. Yeah. So, I could uh propose some shrubs in this area. Um, you know, again, I think if we put them if we did some high high bush blueberry bushes along here, I think it would it would probably function better
than a tree almost out of the 100 foot. Anyways, so I, you know, that would provide a food and shelter source if the uh commission was okay with that. And I apologize for throwing this at you this evening. Uh, it was just something that I I didn't realize until we actually
staked it out that there was a conflict. Mr. Collins, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but um, Mr. Chairman, I I think um that that what you communicated to Mr. Collins about the replacement protocol
being six per tree. It is is but that's not for a seven inch replacement of a sevenin tree. No, it's it's per tree. So that if there are three twoinch trees, let's just
change the math. Let's say it was 6 in diameter tree, then you could plant three 2-in trees. Each one of those trees would be six shrubs. If so, if there were three 2 and a half inch trees, we get up to seven. So
rather than three two and a half inch trees, there would be 18 shrubs. And um Mr. Chairman, Steve Ibis here. I was there today taking a look at uh for example, wetland flag number four. We're
just north and west of the lawn um that's on the plan. And that's a very nice sunny area where high bush blueberries would be wonderful to grow. And I apologize. What was that count again? I just want to make sure I'm not
going to screw up again. Well, we usually require, you know, we look for 3-inch trees because and now I'm talking diameter, so I'm I'm shifting away from circumference. So, we look for something in the 3-in caliper uh area. And each
tree um is the equivalent of six shrubs. Okay. Okay. So, if we got, you know, two trees and six shrubs or one tree and 12 shrubs,
that would be the equivalent. But no, Wendy, you're right. It's It's not for a 7in tree because imagine we're going to be talking later tonight about the uh 131 Elliot Street with you know whatever the John Adams oak tree was 7 feet something like that.
And so I I apologize. So with a 7in tree, how many shrubs would I be proposing? Well, you get there by by dividing the sevenin tree into plantable trees. And we usually require two and a half to
three in or three and a half inches. So if you're in that 3 in range, you're good. So if I had So if I had So let's say it's three two the equivalent of two three and a half inch trees, that would be 12 shrubs. Would
something like that be reasonable? I I think we're looking for three trees for seven inches, which would be a smaller caliber, but what I I think they and everybody else can speak their own mind, but my gut reaction is that a 7in tree would be the equivalent of three
saplings being replanted and the three would be 18 shrubs. So, 18 shrubs. Okay. Wendy, do you have a thought on that or a view? Um, I I think I think that is that is correct. Do we also want to offer the
the cash alternative or is that just further complicating things? I mean honestly may the customite customer might be okay with that. I can talk to them. What would the cash alternative be is $500 per tree.
Okay. So per per replaced tree per per replacement tree. So in this case we're talking give or take three trees to replace seven inch 15. It would be either $1,500
or um three trees or or 18 shrubs. Three trees, $1,500 or 18 shrubs. Okay. Or some combination of the above that works for the homeowner.
Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, what I'll do is I'll be prepared to present that to the commission at the site visit. Uh, I do just have to talk to my client about it. The only other thing would be I could see if I could move this further away to
get it away from that seveninch tree far enough away. I'll take a look at that as well. That was the best choice from our perspective. Okay. Thank you. I I apologize for not being prepared this evening. I appreciate that.
Can you answer a question? It's sort of a a generic one. I know you've been before the board of health and they would have asked the same question, but on Canton Avenue, how far away is the sewer line from 1395? I thought it got almost up that far.
Is it a 300 foot line that the board of health uses? Um, I apologize. I don't know off the top of my head, but basically they won't even schedule a percolation test if there's sewer available. Right.
That's what I thought. I was just trying to I don't I forget now how far the sewer line goes on Canton Avenue. Yeah. Yes. Excuse my ignorance, but I don't know. Okay. Well, I'm sure that was investigated originally. Um and
then um basically we because it was not available, we applied for a percolation test. Understood. Yeah. So, like I said, I think like you were saying, I might see if I can just slide this over and get it away from that seveninch tree and that might clean
things up a little bit. Makes sense. And again, I appreciate your guidance. Any questions from commissioners about the public? I have one, Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir.
Um, this is just for my own information. What is the rule in title five about how close your system can be to wetlands? To what? I to what? To to wetlands.
How close how close can the distribution field be to wetlands? Is there a rule in title five? Yes. 50 feet. 50 feet. Yeah, that was my question. Thank you. Okay. Uh, hearing no other questions or
members of the public that want to be heard, uh, we'll continue with the ascent of the applicant. We'll continue this until, uh, July 19th, Saturday morning. We'll be there about 9:15. All right, George. Yep. 9:15 on the 19th. And there's a
good chance that it'll be another individual from my office there if I am not available. But uh but he'll be well verssed and everything. Perfect. Great. Thank you again. Thank you very much, George. Appreciate it. And as soon as that plan is modified,
I'll I'll get it to Philip. Perfect. Thanks, George. Thank you for your time. All right. Next on the agenda number six is discussion vote of tree placement at 131 Elliot Street. Uh, do we have anybody here or Steve? I don't see
I don't see anybody. No. Um, this this is one and I I I just had, you know, while I was going through this, um, six and eight might make a nice
connection here. Um because indeed I I know I'm jumping ahead and I I don't mean to put anybody on the spot on Beverly Park, but they're looking for uh money from us to plant trees, which is a you know, great idea. Um
but we a we don't have 21,000. we're limited to $15,000 in a year, but B um 131 and I think we have now in place that which the order um was and I know there was some discussion and some
contra I know there was controversy when this happened but back in 2015 when we uh issued the enforcement order that it was after many public hearings and a lot of people spoke up and uh Judith Daryl Kemp who was a true aberist um bonafide
tree hugger in in my my world. Um as I'd like to put myself in that category. Um and uh she was, you know, very very uh invested in what the replacement should be for the 300-year-old uh John Adams
oak tree. Um, and so what you see that Philip you dug out for us um the uh I don't have it in front of me but the uh the number of trees there is like one 12 in
um where are they? Five one black cherry with a 12in caliber. I recognize that that's a big tree and to plant that I know the survivability
uh is not great and and there is a 75% survival rate for this. I also recognize that it probably has to come in on a flatbed truck and it may require wires coming down. All of that was discussed. Um there was some a lot of citizens
input on this one. Um, so this was uh, you know, sort of I won't say it's a compromise, but it was we tried to be as practical as we could, but there were a lot of people that were pretty um, exorcised about the removal of that John Adams that was supposed to be 300 years
old, that oak tree that was cut. Um, and uh, our um, Philip's predecessor Kathy Bowen was present on site. Conservation Commission member Ken Naid was present on the site. They tried to stop the cutting down of
the tree. Um, and they wouldn't stop. So, these were well attended hearings. So, this is not just somebody shooting from the hip. When we came up with the one black cherry, 12 in, three hackberry trees with 6in calibers, two red oaks
with 6in calibers. Um, I know those are big trees. So, what I'm suggesting is I know we're not even up to um number eight yet, but they're looking for trees in Sumar. And at our last conservation commission meeting, we asked uh
everybody with respect to uh 131 Elliot Street to think about locations in the town of Milton. Yeah, this might be a great opportunity for public plantings. Um and it would make the Pevelly Park folks happy. Um, and it
might be a great open space to add trees to. I just throw that out there. I'm just And I know I'm kind of jumping ahead of myself and I don't mean to give short shrift to the Beverly Park folks, but this sounds like an opportunity.
Does anybody have any thoughts? I think you are short, John. It really doesn't matter to Pely Park where the trees come from. as long as they uh realize the quantity of trees
that they need. Um this would satisfy both the Elliot Street matter and Beverly Park. Mhm. It's a nice I would say that yeah, I've looked at the Peril Park plant
and they have only small multi- trunk trees, namely Shad Bush and River Birch. So I would say there would still be a lot of mitigation left over even if an equivalent amount of trees was
charged against 131 Elliot and applied to Peverly. That's all I'm saying. The Pely proposal as it stands does not have anything in the way of big trees. I think there's only trees planned to go
in a circle or ring around the play area. That's all that's on the plan to date as far as I know. I I know. But couldn't you consider this an enhancement or a betterment of that plan? And I I'm not a landscape.
Oh, yeah. There's a lot of room there. It's a large area. There's room for many more trees if that was desired. And there's a history of tree planting there and it hasn't been that great. There was a European beach that was planted there
and I think looks pretty bad. I I don't know if it will survive. Wendy, what what are your thoughts on this? Um well my thought is that even though the um Miss Anderson
Miss Anderson you're um Debbie Anderson thank you. Thanks. We're picking up your background noise if you wouldn't mind. Um go ahead. So, so even though the current
landscape plan it certainly doesn't doesn't include um a tree of of that size. I I'm I'm guessing it's just because I mean who would conceive of having the opportunity
to plant of that size? Let let me try it again. Debbie Anderson. Hello. Hello. Y Debbie Anderson, can you mute your phone, please?
Um, we can we can mute her. Um, whoever is in control of the Steve, can you do that? Steve's the host. I just muted her. Great. Thank you, Steve. Thank you for
reminding me, Wendy. Yes. Um, my my point is that that, you know, the the current landscape plan that they have was was based on the affordability and and ease, I'm sure, of
of plantings. But knowing that they are they they say right in their applications that there's that shade is much needed at this site. I mean, it's it's pretty it's pretty barren. It's a big field out there, and
a tree of this size would provide shade right away for which would be great. John, what are the provisions for um essentially taking care of the planting
of such a large tree? There's a lot more work and coddling. It is involved. So you know the expense for getting a large tree like that not only to be planted but to support thriving of
that tree is no small matter. Um h how how are we addressing that issue? We haven't um I I can tell you that uh the land is owned by the conservation commission at least now uh but the mowing is done by the park department.
So, I I my gut reaction would be I I'll do what I've always done. Go to go to the park department and say, "Hey, can you guys help us?" Um, and uh that generally between the park department and the DPW, they've been really good to us. Um, and I I don't
mean to, you know, lean on them too much, but it's not in the enforcement order other than the 75% survivability is still out performance. It would behoove the uh
shame to lose like that after the expense. And I mean, I'm just saying it's not trivial to keep something like that alive with driving. Yeah. But I agree. It's not clear to me who who is responsible for for that cost of
transporting and transplanting and maintaining that tree. Well, I think 131. It It's not Why wouldn't it be the applicant? It It is. They They are the This is an enforcement order, right,
against um and I I was hoping Steve Connley would be here tonight. Um but I I don't see I think he was here last meeting. Yes. But not this meeting. Um yeah. So he he's the applicant.
We had many meetings on this. Yeah. If I may jump in. Uh um I I agree with Wendy on the um the fact that has had some um their their landscape
design is is based on the affordability of what they're trying to create at Pely Park. Um my company's been involved with helping the park get off the ground and construction wise and I I think that if
we could get Mr. Connley to work with the Beverly Playground group in their landscape consultant. We may be able to satisfy um Mr. Conley's requirements and do something positive for that
underutilized area that that could become um a significant focus of uh community um relations in that area. Yeah. No, I I agree. One of the questions that I I know we're going to
get is the same question or questions that came up with Algerene Corner. And that was somewhat controversial as well. And some of some of the folks were saying, well, that's a that's a place where kids uh play baseball. We don't want a rain garden there. Um and I I'm
not aware of any sports activities that are scheduled there. I know once in a while some kids are running around throwing a football or you know hitting a baseball but none of the youth sports are there as far as I know. Philip, do you know? No, I don't I don't think there are any
sports there. I don't think so. I just didn't know any sports. Say again. I said I don't think it's big enough to have any like you know organized sports there. Yeah, pro probably not. But I just, you know, know that this would be taking up
some of that, you know, running room. And I didn't know if there were folks that would be more interested in playing fields and trees. I know our bush is trees. Well, the the the playground design is is quite extensive. It's taking up a
good portion of the property. Mhm. Um it it may be a a good opportunity to focus on creating um an entire park area there, not just for the playground, but uh where they could get some decentsized trees in there for shade and walking and
benches and whatnot. You know, when I looked at the plan, Charlie, it looked bigger to me than the original plans that I saw. And do you know the uh acreage? because we could have a real problem
with article 97. We the conservation commission could have a problem with article 97. I do not I do not know the comparison of the original plans to the latest ones. I do have the latest plans. I I I could reach out to the design team and see if
there has been any sort of u uh square footage creep from the original design. My memory get a hold to that. Go ahead. My memory for better or for worse is a
recollection of approximately four acres for public park. Yes, you are correct. Go ahead, Charlie. Yeah, the overall size I agree with Arthur. I think we're around four acres. Um the the park design itself is
substantially less than that. Got it. Making plenty of rooms that they're recommending. Yeah. No, no, they they do have four acres. Yeah, your memory is correct, Arthur. But if they exceed the and I know Bill Madden knows this because you
know we talked a lot about the problems with article 97 because that's our land and if we give our land to a different use we have to replace that conservation land that's going from passive recreation to active recreation we don't
have any land to give. Um and it would be counterproductive for us to we don't have any land to give. Um, so that's why they have to stay stay within the form. But the park department does. What's that?
But the park department does. This is being converted into a park. So wouldn't you want some park department land, transfer it to the conservation commission? Well, yeah, you could you could do it that way and then we could then reconvey it. But the problem is you're taking
land out of conservation, correct? To replace park land or to replace other conservation. We'd be taking conservation land to replace conservation land and we've got to take non-conservation land that becomes conservation.
Uh it's really complicated. Then town council was involved. We went round and round on this back the school swap. Theoretically speaking, what if we took four asked the park department to give us 4 acres of the
land that they own up behind Lyman Road. We convert that into conservation ownership and then we convert Beverly Park 4 acres into park. So you have that type of a
trade-off. No, it only is triggered if it exceeds the four acres. Arthur, I think they're fine. The original plan, I know. So, if they're within four acres, then we're okay with the chapter. Absolutely. Yes, that's perfect. Fine. It's perfect.
Good. Right. And I know Bill Madden was aware of that. So, I I I'm hoping that it it stays within that 4 acre outline footprint. You tell them all that they're going to get is four acres, right? It's our land that we are giving.
So it's four acres. That's it. Yeah. I I think this is workable. But is there And I know we're we're really talking about two different things at the same time here. But um it would take some financial pressure off of us for that. Number one, we don't have the
21,000. We only have 15. Um, but it would take pressure off of this because the trees in the enforcement order for 131 Elliott is worth a whole lot more than 21,000. It's a ton more than that. So, I think this answers this could be mana from
heaven for the Beverly Park folks, right? See it the same way Charlie does too. Earlier comments, are there are there other places in town though? Because we are talking about um 131 Elliott. Are there other places?
Because we've got a number of big trees here. Anybody have any ideas as to where else it could go? And Wendy, I'm I'm uh we just lose Wendy. We lost her. Um because I know she's
close to the people at Glover School and I don't know whether or not um they have anything in mind because I know they're going to be looking for trees at at some point. No, we lost her.
All right. Well, let's Is is there sort of a consensus at this point? We don't have to, you know, vote on this yet, but is there a consensus that we should sit down um and talk to maybe maybe, you know, Charlie, you're
involved already, talk to Bill Madden, uh talk to Steve Connley, um and I I think it's a great idea to do this, but let's see if we can put some flesh on the bones here. Put some details uh you know on onto the plan to see if that
would work. I think that's a great I think that's a great idea. I think we need to get them together and we may may be able to solve a couple of problems here. Yeah. All right. Um I Ingred, do you do you have any
thoughts or comments? No, I think it's a great great idea. Okay. There's synergy there. All right. The only I'm I'm stalling because I I really would like Wendy's view on this.
I don't know if she lost her internet or what. Don't know. Well, first start is um uh Charlie, can you reach out to Bill Madden? Yes, I can. I'll reach out to Steve and Bill and try and facilitate that meeting.
Perfect. All right. That's good. Good news. All right. and we and we're not voting on anything, so we can revisit it if if Wendy has some additional thoughts on this one. All right, so that's um tray replacement 131 7 is order conditions at 1034 Blue Hill
Avenue. Um did anybody come on this one? Let's see. What do we have? Oh, is that Miss Reish? Yes. In Gish. Yes. We got some got a plan
of a meeting. Yes. I looked at it. Steve, say again. I was just looking for your input because I looked at it and it appears that it does exactly what we asked her
to do. Yes, I would agree. There's a French drain running along the side there. That's correct. Yep. And I believe there's a um um
dry well as well that they added to the plan right right there to the left of the driveway. Mhm. Um it it's it's odd. Uh Philip, you know, don't
you? I do. We I sent her I sent her the uh link today. All right. Well, maybe what we could do is uh put this on the agenda. Um because we really need the applicant
to say these are the plans and this is what I want to do. And it looks good to me. But maybe we could put it on the agenda. It won't it won't take long before u the 19th of July to have a vote on it. Sure. Okay. So, we'll continue that until the
19th of July. Uh, you want them there though, right, John? So, we'd have to make that available on vacation. Correct. Right. I That's I think it's appropriate to have the applicant Y
apply. Okay. And Pe We'll meet them. We'll meet them at 10:34 Blue Hill A. Yes. Okay. All right. And we've already talked about Beverly Park. Charlie's going to run that ground. Number nine on the list
is Certificate of Compliance 38 Lane. I'm here for that. John Ned Corkran on behalf of um Paul and Suzanne Barry who the owners of the property at 38 Barton Lane we have filed an asbelt plan and a certific
certification that the work has been performed in substantial compliance with the order of conditions. Those were filed by Dennis O'Brien who's the survey surveyor on the project. Um this was a simple uh well the the house was
completely rebuilt and the rear the backyard was um some patios were added to the rear. There was some uh minor work removal of some old boardwalk and a bench was sort of buried in the wetland in the rear of the property that's been
removed and all the work is complete. And as I indicated, uh, Dennis O'Brien has filed a cert certification that the work was done substantially in accordance with the, um, with the order of conditions, and based on that, I'd request that the the commission vote to
issue a certificate of compliance. All right, good. I I have a clear memory of being there a couple of times, actually. Uh, wasn't that long ago, looks like March five of 2024. Um,
so, uh, Steve, have you been there? I have. I was, uh, on the site for, I don't know, maybe about an hour with, um, Murk and we, we talked about the plantings that she had made on the site.
Barry, Mrs. Barry, Susie Barry, I'm sorry, Barry. I'm I'm forgive me, Susie. D, tell us about the plannings. Um well, so all of all of the plantings are in the plans
um and they're all native within the 100 foot um uh zone and um within the 25 ft no disturbance zone. We um basically haven't done anything and it looks like
nature has come back. Um there was a lot of natives there and I pointed out a couple of um plantings that looked like um they were not natives and they were intentionally plant planted by the
previous owners. Um I think they were Asian um roses and they were planted all along a line and um Steve told me that I should making those up as they come up. Um you should do what? removing them since
they're invasive roses, Asian rose rose bushes. Um I haven't Are they Do you know that? I I don't know. Are they Steve? Are they invasive or they simply mult John? Multifllora. Oh, multifllora. Okay, got it.
Yes, you know those. Yes, I do. So, I haven't done anything yet, but I I um the best time for me to do any removal of that is in the springtime. Um so, that's really kind of the plan there. Um everything that we've
planted um has been curated with the help of Maggie Ol um and her bringing in natives with me only um to make sure that we comply and um
that's that's really kind of what we've done so far this year. Sounds pretty good to me. Any questions? May I add that the area has wonderful species diversity, right? As you go from lawn to the the
wetland, it's incredible species diversity. So, it's come back really well. Yeah. Good news. Questions from commissioners? Hearing none. Are there abutters or members of the public that have a question or comment?
Uh Debbie Anderson's hand is up. Is that I don't know Debbie if you can hear me. Do you have a question or a comment? I don't think so. I don't have a I don't see my hand up. Oh, okay. Maybe that's Oh, that's my
that's my that's my artifact there that I had. I'm sorry, Debbie. Um okay. Is there a motion to approve the um certificate of compliance? Again, some move. Okay. Thank you, M.
Is there a second for that motion to issue the certificate of compliance? Second. I'll second. Uh thank you very much. Um any discussion? Hearing none. And seeing none, uh we'll go in order. Arthur, uh how do you vote?
Yes, Wendy. Yes. Tom, yes. Thanks, Tom. Charlie, yes. And I'm John Kieran is a yes as well. So, unanimous vote. Uh, thank you very
much, Susie. Um, and enjoy your beautiful home. Thank you. Okay. Thanks. Thank you. Next on the agenda is order conditions 20 Brookside Park. Hi. Um, Debbie Anderson. I'm representing the applicant.
Um, Hugh Donnelly. Um, so I don't know, Steve, do you want to go over the background on this or do you want me to? Uh, if you would do it, it would be great. Thank you. Okay. Um so from what I understand um this project has already come before the
commission and um was reviewed and approved and um was voted on um but there wasn't a D file number. So picked back by DP who requested that um
it be refiled. Um I noticed when I was reviewing it that um you know the project is in riverfront area. So there were the riverfront area standards that needed to
be met. Um so the project is adding 244 square ft of additional imperous area and the existing imperous is over 10% of the riverfront area located on the property. Um, so they're required to
provide a 2:1 mitigation. Um, so they're proposing that through the removal of 500 square ft of existing lawn area. Um, and seeding the area with a native seed mix and installing um, six high
bush blueberry shrubs and six winterberry holly in that 500 ft area. Um, and you know, that would be considered a a no alteration area going forward.
Um, so like I said, they haven't changed the proposed project at all since it was approved by you. We just kind of um went through and tightened up with the uh riverfront area standards. Um, we did get a file number from D
today. Um 046656. Um so presumably they have at least looked this over and and issued the file number. Um do did we sign anything? You said we
voted on it. I I don't recall. From what I understand um you did vote on it. it was issued um and it was given to the applicant to record and when they went to record it
at the registry they wouldn't record it because it didn't have a D file number on it and apparently it was never filed with D. That's correct. Okay. Exactly what happened.
So D um had issued, I guess, a letter stating that they wanted us to kind of start from the beginning and refile the notice of intent um and paying attention to the riverfront area standards to making sure that it complied
and and there was no change in the grading either, was there? No. Exactly. Okay, good. Just checking. Yep. The project's exactly the same. I is there any value just looking at the plan and I I'm not suggesting you need
to because I'm impressed with the mitigation area and I know it's 500 square feet but would there be any value to um uh like some kind of a uh catch basin or um cult chamber for roof drainage off the
off the proposed new addition and I'm not suggesting that you need it. I'm just saying is there any value to it? I I think the I mean the addition is relatively small. Um so
no I know that and and you this is not a really a cost issue. It's not a big deal. Best value Debbie. I don't think it's necessary uh because the soils are probably pretty well permeable
down gradient of the roof as well. Right. If they were if they were impervious, another whole another story. If it was all, you know, tar tar or asphalt, big difference. Okay.
Someone put up the plan so we can refer to it. Let's see. Steve or Debbie, can you do that? You have the okay to do that, Debbie. I will do my best. We know I'm technology
challenged, but I will try. Let's see. Um, making you a co- Oh, there we go. Do you see it? Uh, it's coming on. There we go. There it is. Well, that's exciting. It's my day. Um, indeed.
I have a couple of questions here. Can I ask a question? Can I ask a question? Are you asking me? Of course you can. Well, I don't know if somebody has to say yes. I don't know if you can hear me. All right.
Yes. Now we can hear you. Yes. Regarding the square footage, you quoted how much new impervious there was, right? What was that number? 244 square feet. And I see a proposed in the red box, one
story addition. It says 262 square feet. because they're removing existing um overhang there. So, that's being subtracted from the additional. All right. And uh there's stuff that's
being removed as well. There's a deck at the rear that's coming out, right? It says demo existing deck. Is that Do you see that? Yeah. And there's also there's also a proposed deck of 468
square feet, right? Which is not not impervious. That's pvious. I gotcha. That was another of my questions. It's it's not added to the impervious because the water will run through it somehow. Correct. How does it how does it run through?
It's like tyveck or something. Well, there's slats between the um the um in between the deck boards. Thank you. Okay. All right. Yes. And as I look at the green area that you
call the uh mitigation area, I think that's fine. Um I would note that something that's on not on this plan and ought to be on the plan is our no disturb zone which you
know in your submission which was very well done I thought and explained all the standards you're trying to meet. I appreciate how uh exhaustive that was, but I would say for a plan showing wetland resource areas in Milton, we need to have the no
disturb zone shown on it. Uh just for housekeeping purposes and so that the land owner and everybody knows what our bylaw is. I don't see that 25 foot notice serve zone on this plan. Is that
am I correct about that? Yes. Yes. I've got it in my hand. Yeah. Well, uh I think going forward it really needs to be on plans in our town. Uh and uh it's not on here. So I would
request that it be added to the plan. That's that's pretty easy, Deb, don't you think? I'm sure we can contact the surveyor and have them add it. Yeah, that that's that's like a easy task and again that's it's not something
that uh you it would be expensive. Um okay, I think we know that we we would like in the future that that mitigation area would not turn into lawn again. And uh I think if the if this was on the
plan, it would help the homeowner to know that this is what should be left alone. Um but overall, I think it's an excellent plan and I'm ready to support it. Thank you. Um I I you're talking about the uh
you're talking about uh the mitigation area or the 25 foot when you said the homeowner should know about it. The 25 foot. Oh, got it. Okay. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks. All right. Any other questions from uh
commissioners? Any abutters, members of the public that would like to make a comment, ask a question? I don't see anybody. So, is there a motion to vote this order of
conditions on the condition that um uh we receive a plan with 25 foot non-disturbance zone on the plan? And and Tom's right, Debbie. I mean, that's that's it's going to get stamped approved. So, we'd like to have it there for our formal record that it was on the
plan, but I think that's easy. Uh, and then the other, you know, so the homeowner knows this and, you know, it's up to you to tell the contractor, um, that you can't park or refuel, uh, they can't park or refuel their equipment, um, motorized power equipment, uh,
within our jurisdiction. So, there has to be, they got to stage it somewhere away from our jurisdiction. Okay, that's standard for us for the last million years or millennia or something. Okay, any other conditions that anybody
can think of? Hearing none, is there a motion then to approve the order of conditions with those uh special conditions? All right. Thanks, Ingred. Is there a second to that? Second. Thanks. Thanks, Charlie. Uh, any
discussion? So, if I can call a roll call. Uh, Debbie or Steve, can you take that screen share off so I can Sorry. Voting. Perfect. Thanks, Arthur. How do you vote on this? Yes,
Tom. Tom, I missed it. We've got a recording. Can Can you try it again? I vote yes. Hey, Tom votes yes. Thank you. Thanks. Wendy.
Wendy votes yes. Charlie, how does Charlie vote? You're on mute, too. Yes. All right, Debbie, we're all technically challenged here and I I join and vote yes as well. So,
you've got your order conditions and you've got a D number. So, all is well. Thank you. Thank you everybody for your patience. How many hard copies do you want of the revised plan? Phillip, it's up to you. Um,
well, we're not they're not going to We could probably use like three Debbies. Okay. Three. Okay. And one digital copy. Debbie, please. We'll do. Thank you. Perfect. All right. Thanks all. Thank you. Thanks.
All right. Next on the agenda is uh certificate of compliance 630 531 Elliot Street. Okay. Now, do we have uh is it Lucian McFerson? He should be here.
And Tia McFerson. Um Tom, do you know their whereabouts? Yeah. Uh yes. Oh, there you are. Mr. McFerson, I can't see you, but uh tell us this is a request for a certificate of compliance.
Um, so we need an attestation of compliance and tell us what's happened, what's going on. Um, uh, well, Tia had attempted to, um, drop that off, but we had finalized
things with, uh, Mr. Ivvis, uh, some time ago and just trying to close out this process. uh all the items that were requested were met and completed some time ago. I don't have an exact date uh but you know we had worked hand
in hand and enough times enough visits with uh Mr. IIS and Mr. Palmer at the time to complete it and we're just trying to close things out. Um, so is there and and this may be awkward for Tom because I think you were
the representative at the time, but do you have an attestation of certificate I mean of substantial compliance and I know that sounds like I'm a form of a substance guy, but that that is the regulation. Is there anybody that can say that you've done that?
Um, can I uh share my screen? Sure. because I I have a an asbuilt plan. Um, let me know if you can see it. You should you should probably announce
that you're you've got to recuse yourself from this vote. But yeah, I agree that I that makes sense that I wouldn't vote because I did represent uh Lucian
through this and uh so now I shouldn't vote on it, but I'll be glad to provide information. Now I'm looking at I'm looking at the plan, but I'm not sure anyone else is looking at it.
I'm trying to share the plan. Can anybody see it? We can't see it. Yeah, I'm I'm still working on it. Let me try again. There we go. It will it will come up now.
Can you see it? Yes, we can. Yes. All right. This is the the asbuilt planting plan that I made toward the end of the process. And uh if you see the trees that look
like stars, that was 10 trees that were planted. And uh on this day I recorded them and you can see what kind they are. And one of the issues was that they were not native.
Of the 10 planted trees, only one, the 2-in dogwood, is native. The other ones are two pears, two crab apples, several quans, and cherries.
So um this was an item in dispute because the requirement had been that the new plantings would be native that six native trees would be planted and instead nine non-native and one native
tree was planted. I'm not saying that this is I'm attesting here to the order of conditions because I don't think I ever saw the order of conditions. I was away from the um application for a number of months
including the time when the order of conditions was issued. Then I was called back to uh deal with the difference of opinion and whether the plannings were correct and uh that's when I made this as build plan. So it's not the same
thing as me say saying I was there yesterday and I saw XYZ. But I think but I think in terms of the planting of woody vegetation there was compliance in quantity. In
fact more trees were planted than were required but what was missed was the native requirement. And frankly, I wouldn't recommend digging up these trees and replanting them with natives because I
think both the native and the the trees that were selected do the jobs that trees do. And in terms of surrounding a lawn, I think it's natives have good points, but so do
these particular trees. So that's just my ballpark to look at it and uh that's maybe as much information as you need right now to go forward.
John, a quick question. Yeah. The trees have survived. I don't know the answer. Maybe Lou knows if they have survived. I don't. Yes, they survived. But but if I may add that after that um I had met with Mr.
IIS again in several visits and um a number of shrubs were planted as well and I got some further education and and um I don't know if If I would have if I was to have it,
then I would have uh you know had the list for tonight. But Mr. I if you could share or elaborate on the several meetings and the final conditions that like several shrubs were planted native um after the trees were planted as well
in addition to um in addition to that there were I'm very sorry Lucian I don't have my notes with me tonight on on on that but but there were shrubs planted afterwards that is correct
I think you can plan and still look at it. The crosshatch area along the top of the open area and the arrow says new shrub border of hydrangeanger in Pakistandra. I was I did see that and put it on the
plan. So it was there in October 19 2019. Yep. Agreed. I I'm confused on a couple of things, Tom. Um because I I'm I'm looking
at the plan in in my hand here and I I'm not curious the same as what I'm looking at on the screen. The reason is that I'm looking at um 10 in 20 in 16 inch 25 in DBH red oak.
Um these are big tree. You suggesting that these were planted were planted? No. As I said before, look at the trees that look like stars. Do you see those on the plan? And there's also trees that are simply
circles. Yes. The circles are pre-existing trees. The stars are the planet trees. All right. I I think the problem is that what we received in our packet is not what's on the screen. At least
that's right. Yeah, we got right. We got I at least I got an existing conditions plan which was not does not show this. That was done at the beginning of the process. So, it's not really the one we should be looking at
now. Where did I get this one? I'm showing you it was in my file, but I did submit it. Well, we sure need a planning plan for our file.
And I I know you shared some concerns that you had regarding the difference between your notes and the and the conservation commission minutes or whatever they were
notes. Um yeah, those were those were about what the terms the final terms of enforcement order would be. And uh those I recorded at a site visit that was held after I
had submitted this plan. I think it was later in October 2019. And so you saw the emails that Steve distributed today um illuminating that question
um whether or not in addition to plantings there should be money fines and what they should be. So, I was around for that representing the client
and uh now I'm no longer representing Lucian and I'm not voting on this. I'd say it's for you to decide uh whether the plannings that were done
are a good faith effort to comply or whether because they are introduced instead of native. This was another instance of a failure of the proponent to follow
the instructions. Um, that's sort of your question to answer, right? Yes, it is. It is. It is. And I I'm also concerned because I think the conservation
commission notes indicate there was a $3,000 fine and that has not been complied with. Correct. We've tried to comply and ask and she's went down to DPW to get an invoice or
find out how to do it or how to pay it. It isn't an issue of paying it. We're trying to pay it. Where we left off was we had met with Mr. Ives. I had met with Mr. thus on several occasions to comply to plant the necessary shrubs as my understanding I don't have it in front
of me but it was trees or shrubs it was a combination of everything and a combination and option but there was no clear precise written it was it was email chain that we didn't have privy to so from our understanding it's not a problem if you want to play the $3,000
fine how do I pay it but moreover the plantings and the number of plantings should be sufficient or was sufficed eventually after several meetings with Mr. Adams. Yeah. And I would note that the crab
apples are natives, John. Well, there's a whole bunch of fine. But if the enforcement order said a $3,000 fine, the or to which Mr. McFerson referenced was trees or shrubs, not plantings or a
fine. So, how could there be a certificate of compliance if the fine hasn't been paid? I I'm I'm at a loss. Well, maybe we can take a look at the at the plantings. And I understand they're not native, but um maybe we could add
this to our sitewalk on the 19th. And in the meantime, um, it's just a check to the town of Milton. I don't think there's any magic to it. Well, she she had went down several times and there wasn't any clear
instruction on on that. That's not a problem. If that's the case, then sure, can drop it off tomorrow. Why Why don't we do this? We'll put it on the agenda for the the 19th. Take a look at the the plantings. Um it it
doesn't sound like there's compliance with the order, but might be the functional equivalent, but if we could set eyes upon it. Um and if you could have if you paid the fine by that time, we'll be in a position to vote on the 19th
of July of July of this month. Yes. Yeah. I I I'm trying not to delay you. my my wife had went down several times to DPW to try to
pay and this is what was directed to me to attend and so I guess there lies the communication but it's not a problem. Um you know we'll drop it off tomorrow. Can I ask can I ask who she spoke to at
the DPW? I don't remember this conversation at all. I I don't know because I I work out of state and I'm out of state now. So I I don't know. But without like hanging up on the Zoom or But she's she's been down to to Randolph out several times to I
mean I've met her and she's dropped stuff off. We've never discussed a $3,000 fine since I've been there and I've been there for two almost well it will be two years in another week. Well, not a problem. I'll have her drop it off
tomorrow. Thank you. No, that's good. And and we could probably be at your house on Saturday the 19th at about Philip, help me out. What are we up to? 10:30. We're at 9:15. So, probably 9:30 quarter
10. We're at 1395. 9:30 and the quarter 10. Yeah. Okay. Is that good? ution. Will you be there? Sure. Yeah. I I fly back on the 18th, so
I'll be there. Oh, perfect. That's good news. All right. Great. Any other questions, comments from commissioners or about members of the public? All right. So, we'll see you on the 19th and hopefully you'll see Philip before
then. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. All right. And I I've got to go back, Tom, on that one. Can you submit that um as build plan?
Uh yes, I can share with the commission and uh I agree with you that it needs to be part of the record before we can issue the certificate. Good. All right. Thanks. All right. So, next on the agenda is
uh certificate of compliance 24 Wentworth Farm Road. Ned, is that you? That's me. Yes. Uh John Ned Corkran for the record on behalf of uh Jordy Stro and Best Cutter. Um I'm joined by Jim
Burke who has submitted an asbuilt plan and a cert certification that the work has been completed in substantial compliance with the order of conditions and uh turn it to Jim. Any specific uh issues concerning uh his plan?
Do you want to add anything that? No, I think other than that answer questions that may come from I know there was an email question about whether some shrubs may have been removed uh and along the boundary line. We did raise that with
Jordy and with his contractor. They both say that nothing was been nothing's been removed. Okay. Uh I would tend to agree with them simply because the amount of process that this property has been involved in. I know that they were deathly afraid to
do anything um without uh approval of the commission. So um we think that the nothing's been removed. Um my sense is the commission probably want a sitewalk to check to make sure that everything's been done accordingly and so we would
welcome that. And um if at the end of the day the commission decides that some extra shrubs should be planted then we can go ahead and take it and take it take care of that. All right, Steve, do you recommend that? Um, it would be good to take a look at
it. Yes, I think the the commission should take a look at the site. Um, the other reason is to look at how the the rocks have been shinkedked in uh and and and placed in among the boulders. So, I
think the commission should see that for themselves. Okay. Just a suggestion. That's good with me. Yeah. Anybody else has some? No, that's fine with me. But anybody else? And I Jim, I do appreciate the photographs. That was very helpful to have those in the file.
You did a good job. So, um, yep. What do you say? Add this on to the sidewalk on the 19th. Speak up, Wendy. You got I'm very sad I'm going to be missing the sidewalk.
Oh, that's right. I'm sorry. Yeah, I wasn't I wasn't giving you a hard time. I I Well, you know, I love this site, so I'm really sad to miss. All right. So, hearing no objection, then just Philip will add this one. Uh, I don't think these are going to be
lengthy sitewalks, so I think we can get it in and out pretty quickly. Yes. So, should we say 10 10:15? Yes. I mean, that's good with me. Um, did that right, Jim? I don't know who's going to be there.
Um yeah, I I have a conflict. Um that's Saturday. Um I can maybe maybe get Jim to sell to up. Oh, I don't know. Get out get up out of bed at that hour. Saturday morning.
I know. I know. What a partner. All right, Ned. Y'all be there? I may. I'm not sure that I'll be able to be there, but I'll I'll I will try. Okay. Well, we just want to make sure it's good with the homeowner. We don't want to show up unless they they think the homeowner will be fine. The homeowner had some tough medical news
today. So, um Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. Or yesterday. And so, he's dealing with that. Um Got it. All right. Problem with us showing up. Just give me a heads up. What's that?
I definitely from my office. Okay. Okay. So, we'll add that. All right. Thank you very much. We'll see you on the 19th. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks.
Um, approve the next uh the minutes from uh June 10th, 2025. I just had one question and Steve, if I can ask you,
uh, go to number eight. It said new business A. It says JK reported that he Steve Ivvis and who else was there? Who's PD? Phil Driscoll.
Philip Driscoll. Oh, okay. I had Paul in my head. I couldn't figure out Paul. Oh, Phil Driscoll. All right. Good. Thanks. That was my only question. Otherwise, I've got no problem with the minutes as Thank you, Steve. Any other revisions
questions? Move to adopt, Mr. Chairman. Anybody? Yes. Move to adopt. Yes. Oh, thank you. Is there a second? Ingred, thank you very much. Thank you. Any discussion? Hearing none.
Arthur, yes. Tom, yes. Ingret, yes. Yes. Wendy. Charlie. Charlie, you're on mute.
Still on mute. It's that button. Yeah. All right. Got it. All right. And I, John Kieran, vote yes as well. Yeah. Unanimous. Um 14 new business. Uh we've actually pretty much talked about that.
And that's the um uh EPA super fund site, the phase two. and I'll send you three things. One is the draft letter from the select board. Um the second one is a I think it's from NEPA. It's sort of a synopsis of what's going on with the statuses.
And the third one is the actual engineering report. It's pretty lengthy. The only reason you need to get into the at least to some extent into the lengthy one is that there are different options there. And what the town is proposing, the select board is proposing that the
EPA approved the the the best and the biggest, the best management practices to take out as much of the uh contamination as is possible. So it's like the they're going the Cadillac route instead of the whatever Ford Pinto $7 million route.
What What is it? The $70 million route. That's Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of money. Um and you'll see in the slightly Oh, it is. Well, it's a couple hundred years. So,
it's been accumulating. And you'll see in there that uh there's a request from the select wood. I I just wanted to add on this note that uh not only damage there but damage
because of that dam uh in that the uh the salt marsh has not been able to be replenished for two centuries by the silt that would migrate down the Neponet River into the uh saltwater estuary.
So that um it really has been enormously deprived for a long an extended period of time which makes it more vulnerable from a whole host of perspectives. So bye-bye Baker Dan. All right. And that's um well there's
another component to this and that's a request from the select board to EPA to consider the um downstream side of the Adam Street dam Baker Baker Chocolate Dam um because that's where we had a
state grant but I think the state grant was just like you know three or four million to dredge the harbor uh at built you know right out next to 88 W street Milton Yard Um, and now it's ballooned up. Tai and Bond did a a survey, an engineering
survey, and there's a ton of contamination there. So, the cost ballooned to 37 million for us, and the state grant didn't carry that. So, we're trying to we're asking for adjacent site approval, which if you're adjacent to a
a super fund site, you can get kind of swept into it. they'll expand the frontier and put you within the footprint of the cleanup. So, we're asking for them to while you're cleaning, you know, upstream of the Baker Dam, please clean downstream of the Baker Dam. It'll probably be cheaper
for them than for us to start a new Oh, yeah. All right. But you'll see all that in the in the letters. Philip, I'm sorry. No, I thought you were I thought you wanted to say something. No, I do have new business though when you're done.
Okay, I'm done. All right, I have two things. There's a um sidewalk. There's a sidewalk with a superseding order of conditions for Randolph Avenue. I sent you the invitations. It's July 21st from 10 to 12. If you I can resend
it if you want. And if more than four people come, I have to post it as a meeting. July 20. What day of the week is that? Monday. It's two weeks from yesterday at 10:00 a.m. Right. 10 to 12. I'll resend it
tomorrow. And And what is the superseding order? I didn't see it. Oh, I'll send that too. So, what do they say? To be honest with you, I didn't read it. I just sent it. But I will send it
tomorrow as well. Okay. Bas basically John it allows the work with less um conditions. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And uh who know Philip you you
might know this or Arthur everybody might know this. Where was that uh terrible fatal accident? How far away from hillside? What is it? Hillside John. It was right at hillside. side. Wow.
And remember, they told us that this was the fifth highest accident rate in the Commonwealth, correct? That intersection, not hillside, but I mean Chikataban, right? That's pretty frightening. Wow. Um, Bill, did you say Monday the 21st?
Yes. Monday the 21st from 10 to 12. 10 to 12. Um and then we're going to meet where we met for the original ones when we met with them um a couple of months ago, you know, in that parking lot off of um
Yeah. that first parking lot right there. We're going to meet at the parking lot. What's it for? To see it's to go over the superseding order of conditions. But it's am I correct? It's issued.
Yes. the superseding or did they just appeal? It's an appeal. They requested a superseding order. Oh, but they don't they don't have the I was going to say that's awfully fast, but and we we need to decide whether we have
an a position about their request because they threw out a number of our conditions. Yeah. Well, I think we have to read it. Um, and then we can discuss it on the 19th. Uh, you may put it on the agenda
just so we can talk about it, Philip. Okay. Uh, while we're going from place to place. Um, and then it would be a couple of days later. That's a Saturday and then that Monday is the 21st. Okay. All right. Any any other additional business?
I do. I'd just like to say that that I perhaps can attend, but um I don't know if it's necessary or not. Okay. All right. Well, we'll we'll give um everybody think about I've got to look
at my calendar to see if I can make it that day or if I'm in court somewhere. Um but we need to get it back to Philip because remember he does have to announce this because if more than three of us that is if four of us get together it has to announced as a public meeting.
So let's try to get uh back to Philip by the by Friday of this week. Okay. I kind of doubt four of us are going to want to go on a Monday morning but we'll see. Right. Yep. Day so my attendance is
I'm sorry. I was saying, John, I I we have other business that day and the family, so chances of my being there are light. I I missed what you said about your family. We have other responsibilities. Family
responsib I'd like to bring up another matter. Sure. Yeah. Uh, I heard something about the vote of the board of the health approving the trapping of beavers. And maybe it was from you, John.
Yeah. Do you know if it's true that they can't trap any beavers until November or can they begin immediately? I know there's a season. No. Yeah, they they've got permission to do it, but there's a season and I don't
think it's until October or November, so it's not immediate. And then if if they get rid of the beavers, they do they do have to come to us to take the beaver dam down.
Yes, that would be altering a wetland. Um, do you know who made the request to the board of health? Was it the uh DPW. Yes. Yes. It was Marina Fernandez.
Yes. And uh she was responding to um information she got from whom and what information? Well, we had a we had a pretty big meeting. When I say big, there were
probably 15 people there maybe. Uh right at the DCR dam. Yeah. Where Anquity and Holland Street split that V where Dam is. So DC present.
Yeah. Just for reference. Um I might have wanted to attend that but I didn't know about it. Yeah. I don't I'm trying to remember the the chain of information. I know I got the notice from Marina Fernandez. And
Phillip, you were there that day, right? No, I don't believe I was. Marina was there. And what is what's Greg's last name from DPW? Mc Yeah. Um I was at the There were probably 10 10 or more people
there from the town. I've been there a number of times on my own and I've studied the situation somewhat and you may know that I posted dozens and dozens of photos to photo sharing service called Flickr of Harland
Street various conditions and various storms and so forth. So it's a matter of interest to me and uh so I just hope that I will be informed if more m meetings take place about it and uh I
would like to say that if if a argument was made that the that the dam was causing flooding on the upstream side of a Harland Street. just it didn't seem to me that that was
obvious because of the pictures I took during the latest flooding that showed that the high water was crossing Harland Street from east to west and on the downstream side it was plunging over the
shoulder into a lower level. So to hear after seeing that and then hearing the remark that the dam was causing flooding on the upstream side of Harland, it didn't seem obvious to me because of
this drop in level on either side of Harland. If it was causing flooding, wouldn't there be flat water going above and across Harland Street, which was not the condition? It may be that simply holding the water level higher on the
downstream side of Arland Street, which the Beaver Dam does, will make it true that when a storm does come, it can start rising from a higher starting point. But the fact was during
that most recent flooding of Harland, as I said, I didn't see any evidence that a dam was backing water across Harland Street. Just a note, a factual note. No, understood. And some of the people
there had explored on the east side of Harland Street and uh indicated that there were a couple of beaver dams between that point uh the low point of Holland where the water's crossing over um and the golf course. They thought
they were saying that who was reporting that? Um, Philip, you might know them. They're DPW guy. They were both Milton DPW workers that had gone up there. One of the I'm sorry, one of them might have been a DCR
person, not the boss because the boss is the one that I talked to and I talked to Marina about that beaver deceiver, that technique. So they put them in touch with the people that Arthur and I uh were at the conservation commission
uh conference annual conference at Holy Cross and two guys made a presentation about how you don't have to trap them. You can use this beaver deceiver. So Marina was very interested in that and she have a meeting with them and they
said it it won't work with a dam of that length and we had this conversation before and I think Charlie was the one that said well what about putting a pipe underground? Um you know it would be tough to rebuild
the road but you might be able to run an underground pipe directly to the dam right from Holland Street all the way to the dam. And Charlie, you were gonna talk to Marina and I I think you did because I asked her how did it go and she said I don't think that will work.
Um we we did not get a chance to meet John. Uh I we have exchanged emails but we we have not gotten a chance to meet and discuss um you know brainstorm what may work over there. So it may be something
else that she was referencing. I would just remark that regarding DCR, if you go upstream of Harland Street, there's no more DCR land until you get the other side of Route 28. All that land in between is either town land,
Milton conservation land, often known as a town forest, or it's private land on either side of the major wetlands. and uh to find a beaver dam upstream of Harland. I would be interested to know where you find that because it's an
extensive wooded swamp. Now, I did go up to the top of Hancock Hill this spring specifically to photo that wetland from above so you could see how many trees are dead and there are hundreds and hundreds of them. They are all
defoliated. Those are the trees that the beavers have drowned by raising water levels. And when I looked up there, those dead trees were concentrated on the downstream side of Harland. I saw
live trees going up toward Route 28. So, I would like to know who found these additional dams and where I have to go to see them. I think you have to go to DPW. Ask Marina will know or or Greg will know
because they were both there. We were all standing together. Tom and John I just Yeah. Yeah. If you if you look and go to Harland Street comes up
to the north and east. Um I'm sorry. It goes up to a little subdivision. On the north end of Holland Street. Yeah, I've been there many times. There there's a lot of ledge that comes down toward the well in there. And if you
keep walking, you eventually get to the Stonewall, the golf course. Exactly. But there there are looks to me like there was breeze or beaver activity up in that area for the first time ever this past spring. And there's large dead pine trees up
there. Pine trees have been drowned. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. If you look for dead trees, that's a good way to tell where the beavers are flooded because the trees can't stand the water and they lose they turn brown. So that's a a good
mark. So thank you, Steve. Sure. Sure. Well, Tom, I I'd encourage you to talk to Marina. Okay. She she wasn't happy asking for the Yeah, I think there's a lot of feeling
in the town. Number one, we would rather not be in the business of killing beavers. And number two, we're kind of doubtful that it's sustainable solution. Namely, that if you kill one,
another will come and take its place. So, how many beavers do you have to kill? Uh, the answer is blowing in the wind, I guess. So, yeah, those are my concerns. I I recognize that it might be necessary at some point, but I'm kind of
glad that it's not happening till November because I think I'd like to know more about it. All right. Well, maybe you could talk to Marina back to us. Yeah. All right. Any other additional business?
I have something. Yesterday I went to the register of deeds and we're now I filed the wet signature for the conservation commission. So now we need wet signatures. We we just need one. Correct.
Right. One we just need one commissioner to sign the the um Yes. things actually. And did that this afternoon for me in advance of the vote? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no. These were what? These were ones from the LA These were ones from last time that I hadn't had signed yet. No, no, not from the I do not No, no, no, no, no. These were two from last time that I had
was holding up because I because it was a it was Anyways, I'm We're all set. It wasn't in dance for the vote. Okay, thanks. No problem. Hey Phil, if you were saying yes, it would be interesting to see the reaction
then. Yeah, he probably John would be scraping him up off the floor, right? I'd probably be looking for a job tomorrow. No, not at all. Never. I think that's it, right? That's all I have. Thank you. Anybody
else here, John? Okay, I have something. Yes. Um, for I I have I have a comment and and a question about our tree replacement policy. Um, yes.
For for a while now, I've been feeling that the $500 cash equivalent was um underpriced and is what? I didn't hear it. priced. I I I've been feeling for a while that that
$500 just isn't enough money to replace a 2 to 3 in tree. and um to purchase and install a two two to three inch tree. And and I was looking at the um application
um from the Beverly Park playground folks and the proposal that they got from a Thomas and Sons was was more like $1,000 a treat if you look um
No kidding. Right. That it's got to go to bid, Wendy. And I'm al all for supporting local business, but that's got to go to bid because that's that's Bunny's price, but I don't know what, you know, Maggie
Oldfield's price is. I I don't know what Jay I always I get his name wrong at Eagle Farm. Um Goodfield, they're all nice people. Yeah. Yeah. Um um my my point is that I I don't think you can get a two or three inch tree
installed for 500 bucks. I don't think it's possible. That's probably true. I don't I I think you could do a whole lot better than 1100 though. And some of those trees were priced more than that. I I read the bid.
I personally I I I think $1,000 a tree is is about spot on. And and I I feel like we should be charging our applicants more than $500 a tree. I think it should
be closer to $1,000 a tree. Okay. So rather than get and I agree with you that the 500 is is uh probably too low. It's been we've used 500 for I don't know a dozen years easily. Yep. Something more than 10 years. I know.
Um, so you're you're I'm sure you're right, but I'm not convinced that it's a thousand. So, what I'd suggest is that we get some competitive bids. The problem that we have is that if you want to get a better price, you have to go out of Milton and that puts us into kind
of an awkward position because we we'd all like to support local businesses. Mhm. Uh maybe the the competition between and among the three or four landscapers or five or six or however many landscaping companies there are. But I I know some
developers that buy big trees for a lot less than that. Big time. Yeah. But they're they're also buying in larger quantities and likely transporting them themselves, which is not something that the typical homeowner can do.
Oh, that that's correct. But it depends on where where that typical homeowner is buying them from. If you if you go out outside of and I'm not suggesting that we do this because again, I'd like to support the local businesses, but trees are a whole lot cheaper if you get outside of Metropolitan Boston and it's
not that far out. I mean, halfway between here and Worcester, you're going to get a much cheaper tree. So, at least I'd like to That is true. But then also transportation costs are a lot higher. I mean, I I looked into and I did pay to have a 3-in maple tree installed about
15 years ago, and I ended up buying it um locally because it was I was paying more for the tree, but I was paying less for the transport transportation to get it to my house. And I believe me, I I
shopped all around the the Southshore. And and this was like I said 15 years ago and I I paid believe it was about seven or $800 for that tree 15 years ago. So So my question is how how can we
get the prices you you get the prices. We need a rational basis to move the I agree with you that we should up the price, but we need a basis for it. We need a rational basis to say this is what we base it upon. We've got bids here. So, you just
go out and say, "How much would it be for a like a red oak that's 3inch cal or two and a half inch caliber, whatever we're going to require, and just say tell me what it is." They're gonna have to do that. If this goes to This is public money, so they're
gonna have to bid on it. It's over $10,000. It has to be bid. So, it's going to happen anyway. There are other ingredients. And if the CPC says, "Okay, what's that?" There are other ingredients, too, John. You mentioned uh size and variety of the
tree, but there's also where the location where it's going to be planted, how accessible is it, what's the soil like, what has to be remediated, if anything there. Um there are whole series of factors and
uh Charlie might have some advice uh for us to consider in looking at this on a macro level. Uh we've got a tree warden in town we can consult. We have the shade tree advisory committee. It would be nice to bring some of those people
into this this conversation. It's an important one, but we want to come out in a place that uh gives us a good position for the next several years to come. Agreed. So Wendy, you know, if you'd be seems like an awful lot of of homework
to me when we have a proposal right here in front of us that it just seems like an awful lot of homework when we know that we're that $500 is too little and we've known this for a long time. I I don't
It would seem to me that that we wouldn't have to go to so much extensive homework for something like just increasing the the price that we are asking for the cost per tree. My
my concern is is that these these things just take so much time and and and and I' I've been trying to try to reach a point of clarity. You have to have a rational basis for
any rule or regulation. You have to be able this this proposal that that we that we've gotten right here from a local nursery with with looking at almost 20 different trees being being transported and
planted. Well, Wendy, to my earlier point, another nursery could have a different price structure. You've got wholesale, you've got retail, you've got price points in between depending upon how and
with whom organizations do business. That's why I said it is complex. It's like a Rubik's cube. This is public money. We have to do the due diligence. Yeah, it takes time and effort. Absolutely it does. It takes homework. And maybe Charlie, you you you
probably know more about this than all of us. Buying trees. I mean, is there some way that you could make a recommendation as to where do we collect prices from that are competitive? It's going to be maybe a rain. I could certainly provide some nurseries
that we've used in the past. The challenge is it is complex because if if you have variables like if you have a home a homeowner that's has to replace one tree. Well, yeah, it it's going to cost them more than $1,000. But if you
say to a developer, you need to plant 15 trees in this portion of your project, he's going to do it for far less than $1,000 because he'll buy them at wholesale someplace out in Western Mass. They'll ship them down on a trailer,
one load, and they'll be putting them in for $600, $700 a piece. So, my challenge is understanding that we do it probably is light at $500.
I'm um concerned about penalizing taxpayers in Milton who are doing one project at their house and they have to throw on another $1,000 plus because we're we're dinging them for a treat, right? To me
that seems a little unfair for somebody that's paying the tax rates that we're paying in the town. Um, I think there is a reasonable number that we can come up with between those two. And I can and I again I can provide some nurseries that we've used in the past that that sell um
trees in in wholesale. Um, I think the retail market is a completely different market and um, you're probably adding 30 to 40% on a tree cost and I don't know how the commission squares that up with
a home buyer versus a developer um, that can do it for much much much cheaper. and how and how you don't get into a confrontation with either a homeowner or a developer. What about the DPW buying the the street
trees? Now, they're buying in quantity. So, maybe we could have them, you know, have an inventory of trees coming in and people could tap into that because they'd get the economy. I don't know of them, but they would
have an agreement with a supplier. That that would be a more fair and rational way of looking at it because they're going to be paying in bulk. But then we run into the same problem that we've had in the past when we have dozens of trees sitting in the middle of
the DPW parking lot baking in the sun and no one's taking care of them. And then we've got diseased, stressed out trees that that are likely to not thrive, much less survive. That's a good point, Wendy.
You know, I I I'm I don't know. I don't know about DPW doing that. Are they Are they dying at the DPW lot? I I've never heard that. It's I'm I'm I made that comment based on the
one time that I saw the stash of trees that were there at the DPW yard. Okay. I mean, I don't I don't know if there even is is such a repository of trees anymore. But the thing is is that, you know, there
it's it's a lot for us to ask these DPW guys to babysit these trees when when we don't even necessarily have have a plan for. We're not asking them to babysit. That's why we need a plan. This is what
Branch Lane does. And I' I've been at budget meetings with the town administrator when branch is saying listen I need another 117,000 as a line item for street trees and Nick said branch it I can't get it by the warrant committee it's not going to happen. So
they ended up the line item for fiscal 26 is 50,000. Now, that's the kind the negotiating is going on here constantly. And Branch Lane is the person that you should talk to. He he'd be a good source to come up with a price that's rationally based
because he knows, you know, where they buy the trees, you know, how if if they're held in inventory. I don't know that they are. I have no idea. Um, but I think we need to have a basis for coming up with an amount. And I agree that it
should go up, but we need it to be a rational. And I think if you talk to Branch and Charlie um and Bill Madden, uh th those are the people that do have the sources
and the information. And yeah, it takes homework. That's what we do. Um, I don't know. At at Charlie, can can you reach out to Branch and get his take on
it? I can call Branch and talk to him. Uh, yeah, sure. I I'm I'm happy to reach out to Branch and see what they're paying. And who they're getting them from and where and where and where they are? Yeah.
Would it be good for Wendy to be part of that conversation so that she can answer uh ask the questions that are on my mind as well. But after Yes, that was my original thought. But Wendy, you indicated you weren't
interested in putting in the time for that, which is which I understand. It's But somebody's got to do it. I think where where I'm getting frustrated and confused is that it's it
it's still not clear to me um you know what what the process is um when bigger picture what the process is when
Um when we are are offering trees to folks and like it's it's just not abundantly apparent to
to at least me um where where these trees are coming from, so to speak, you know. and and I I would I would really like to have have things um
be be more clear for for not just us as commissioners, but for for proponents and for the public. And and you know, I think that part of that
is is just when we offer this um monetary contribution alternative for the tree replacement. um that that it's a a fair number that a
fair amount that that adequately represents what it's going to cost to to actually put in a tree. And everybody, I think, agrees with every word you just said. I certainly
do. But that's not what we're talking about. What we're talking about is the the need for transparency and how you set that amount. So, how was it set in the first place? Maybe maybe it would help me if I
understood that. Gosh, I mean, you're reaching back. We've been we've had this for 30 years. Uh, tree replacement policy. So, in the old days, people would say, "Oh, yeah. It's $350 a tree for a 2-in caliper and
$150 to to put it in the ground. That was and I don't I to be honest with you, I don't know where that was the uh that was probably the Dawn Neil days. That's probably 15 16 years ago. Um but that was sort of the the going rate that
people agreed there was sort of consensus as to what it is. But the consensus was built upon what people were being charged by the various not the highest price and not the lowest price but sort of that you know average price.
I I'm just saying we have to do the homework to come up with I I agree with every single thing you said. We we need to raise it but we need to raise it to what? You can't just, you know, like Karmac the magician, you know, scratch a head and say, "Oh, it's
$850." It should be based on something. Well, I feel like it should be based on cost a typical homeowner to go out and buy a tree that costs three that a 3-in caliper tree that they have installed in
their yard. And you know, I I'd be happy to go around and get get some quotes on that, but it's but you know, like like Charlie was saying, it's it's all so variable depending on the site and the type of
tree, and we don't know that. We're trying to get these these generalities. So, you know, how how one of the things that we might do is look at what some comparable communities are doing.
Yeah. And we're not talking about private homeowners per se. We're really focusing on public lands, right? That's our priority. Um Charlie's gonna branch too and uh talk to some
conservation commission members and other actually um Steve you may know some conser ask ask the Norwell folks. Your son is on the conservation commission right? Yes he is. Ask him what they and MC may have some advice on this. Yeah,
I shall. Arthur, do you want to ask uh MACC? Yeah, be happy to help with that. You know, Kate Connley uh is working on one of our appeals before the D. Um and
uh she's a former president of the MACC. Uh and she's now representing the town us she's representing the conservation commission in 648 652 Canton Avenue in our appeal. Um so she'd be a source for
that because uh as president of the statewide association that's the kind of data that I think they're good for. I'll I'll call Kate. Arthur, do you know somebody you could call at MACC? Yeah.
You know who might know is um Steve Ibis and you know is it Matt Burn the vernal pool guy? Yes, he might know. Yep. Yeah, quite possible. And let's see what we can get together and get information back to us so we
don't just kick this down the road. We'll talk about this put it on the agenda. We're just talking about it. We don't have to go anywhere but for the 19th we'll have it on the agenda as an item. Y and Wendy, from your background, Wildlands Trust might be a source of
information for you as well. Right. Would that be a good thing that you could do, Wendy? You want me to call the Wlands Trust and ask them what what their typical cost is for replacement of a 3-in tree?
Just information. Yeah. Yes. That's part of it, but what do other towns, cities and towns do? They're in many different municipalities. You know, where do they go for the trees and you know what's the And I know it's going to be a range.
True. And don't don't forget that the range is going to change with regard to the time of year. Yeah. whether at the beginning of the season which will be a high price and later on in the season which will be lower prices.
Good point. So don't don't forget that we might be able to talk to somebody variable. Yeah. If we say we will send the homeowners to you if you guarantee a certain
reasonable price, that might be a way to do it because that's the way you drive the bulk up and they could get their cost down and still be, you know, if DPW said we'll buy from you and then we say we'll buy from you too or we'll direct the people to you.
Um, as long as it's John dis disappeared. Ah, there you go. Okay, John, you're on mute. He got Yeah, I did. My uh internet went down. Yeah,
which it does often usually when I talk too much. What? It is. So, we've all got information to gather uh and report back on the 19th, right? Yes. I'd just like to say thank you, Wendy,
for sticking with us and trying to make it workable and understandable because you are determined and you're getting there. You've been working on it before and you're working on it now. And I appreciate Thank you guys. I I appreciate that. Um,
thanks for thanks for being persistent. Yeah, we'll get her done. Okay. All right. Anything else? Or can we adjourn? Hearing nothing. Motion to return. All in favor? I.
Okay. If you don't want to adjurnn. Okay. All right. Thanks all. We'll see you on the 19th and I'll get materials to you tomorrow on the EPA super fun. Good night. Thank you everyone.