--------- Good evening and welcome to the uh December 9th, 2025 meeting of the Milton Select Board. Uh as our first item of business, please uh rise if you are able and join me in saying the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you very much. Uh our first item of business is uh public comment. Uh by select board rule, we allow 21 minutes total for public comment. Uh each
speaker is asked to keep their remarks to three minutes. Uh and so that as many people may speak as possible. Uh I will keep track of the three minutes. Um Mr. Milano will keep track of our 21 minutes. Um and I don't know if did anybody sign in? I didn't see any
signatures when I walked by. Um do we have anybody here for public comment? Uh do we have anybody online for public comment? All right. Well, seeing none, then I will just move us along. Uh so we have two items coming up here that are uh
similarly related. Um the route 28 Randolph A road diet pilot and then we're going to be hearing from the traffic commission report and recommendations there. Much of which uh will revolve around Route 28 Randolph road diet pilot. So, what I'd like to do
is first member Heagger is going to recuse herself uh so that we can get an update from Mr. Milano from the state side on the Route 28 and then we'll move along to uh item five at which point member Heerty will be able to rejoin us. Um so, Mr. Milano, I'll I'll ask you if
there's uh any news or uh anything else to to add from the state. I just would um just like to share that the um listening session with Mass DOT was held last night in this room um at from 6:00 to about 7:30. Uh Mass presented for
about 15 minutes and then turned it over to questions and comments. Uh a number of comments and questions were received and responded to. um feedback was I would say largely um supportive of the road diet but even when there were some positive comments there were questions
about aspects of it um within that um some of the themes were as we've heard before in terms of getting onto Randolph especially going um southbound heading out of Milton um the impacts in Reedsdale and in the neighborhood in the neighbors in there um a bunch of
questions from folks who are close to the DPW yard in terms of why the delineators are located in that stretch from between Reed and Pleasant that impacts their ability to get in and out of their driveways and on and off Randolph A. Um I think those were
largely some of the themes. Um that event was recorded um um organized by Representative Wells and Senator Driscoll. So we appreciate their support. We appreciate the Mass Dot team for coming out. Um comments as always can be submitted through the Mass website. Um there's a dedicated project
page as well as a dedicated project email uh where comments and questions can be delivered. They are responding and taking that um feedback. Um so just appreciate the ongoing engagement on this issue and um you know any questions or comments can also be directed to the
town through our office uh or through to the select board directly. >> Right. Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Milano? >> Does Mr. Walls I know you're just going to have to let me know if he puts his hand up. Okay. Um so, uh seeing none, then I think let's move along to um item
five, which is the traffic commission report and recommendations. And uh I believe member Heerty can rejoin us at this point. Mr. Milano, do you want to kick this one off, too? Sharon, I apologize. Um DPW Director Marina Fernandez did have um a
conflict for this evening. Um I did share late with the board um notes from the prior traffic commission meeting um that outlines um the conversation that the commission had. Um Sergeant Chris Ernstston, Chief uh John King from the police department are here this evening
in case there are specific questions that they may be better suited to answer. Um I did provide a copy and hard copy as well. Um the commission discussed um the impacts to the Clifton Road area. Um Clifton Road specifically, but also the other streets that run
parallel to it um between Highland and Reedsdale. Um Spafford, Buckingham, Martin, and Clifton. Um commission talked about whether installing timerestricted do not enters that would limit access off of Reedsdale onto those side streets. Um the commission the the
note from Mar uh DPW director Marina Fernandez notes that there would be an impact to emergency response impact to local traffic and rerouting as any due on would also exclude local traffic such as residents on those streets um and it would add an additional challenge and enforcement since each street would have
to be monitored individually. Um the commission also discussed um which had been brought to um Mr. Well, I think was the first approach. It was the idea of establishing do not turn, no lefthand turn from each of those four streets
onto Highland. Um that would also be timerestricted. Um and I think that was a place where they felt that it would um require good signage, good messaging because there would be natural confusion for drivers
who don't necessarily know that that left turn is prohibited. So, um getting creative about messaging on Reedsdale and um signage at the bottom of those streets so folks don't go up those streets expecting to be able to turn left. Um but once the map systems and
map applications caught up that that was a restricted movement um our expectation would be that that traffic would naturally um drop a bit and um there would be less impact to residents on those streets as they'd still be able to access their street um during regular
during all 24 hours. So um enforcement would be a little bit different and again there are specific questions on the enforcement side as police might be able to be stationed in a single location and have better line of sight in terms of anybody taking an illegal turn onto Highland. So, um, the traffic
commission did not make a formal recommendation. Um, deferred that decision to this board. Um, but I think broadly has ongoing and continued concerns about installing do not enter around town. Um, but more open to um, a
more limited change. And again, I'm I'm summarizing and speaking at high level. So, um, I just I wanted to deliver at least a summary point. >> Great. Um questions or comments from the members? >> Yeah, I have a question if um Sergeant Ernst or Chief King would be willing to
answer. Um I got the feeling from the traffic commission that the preference >> uh from police would be the no left turns as opposed to the do not enters. Um meaning and some of that was because the do not enter you thought would restrict some of the emergency vehicles.
>> Am I correct in that? >> Please, if you guys want to join us up at the front table, that'd be fine. Chief and that mic is sensitive. So if whoever's speaking if could just grab it and redirect it. Emergency vehicle as did come up. I think that was more of a concern on the
fire than the police. So that's not a huge concern on our end, but you know, we recognize that concern, but that was more fire, so I don't want to speak on their behalf. >> Um I know you said prefer, but that's like a two options choice. >> Uh
>> we're not fans of the do not enter for lengthy list of reasons, but >> you know, if you present in that sense, yeah, we strongly are against the do not enter, so the left term would be preferable, but that eliminates all other options. I mean, I feel this is a ma mass dot problem with 30,000 cars.
They turned into half the lanes that were and that's obviously going to divert it into these people's neighborhood. So, I feel there's probably other solutions. I'm not a traffic engineer, but shouldn't we should look at other solutions. I feel it's a mass problem and there should be a mass solution that gets these cars
back on the road and off of Clifton, off of Highland, off of all those surrounding neighborhoods. It it's not just that neighborhood. We I have emails tonight from the Hillside Neighborhood Association within the last three hours about this issue. So, I just feel I have concerns about putting a band-aid during a test phase because you alter the
effectiveness of that test if you start changing the surrounding streets during a test phase. So, I disagree with that philosophy. Just my opinion. But the long term, if the Rand half stays, I feel there's better solutions out there. Um, so I'm probably not really
answering your question, but if you if you say out of the either of the two, yeah, I would prefer the no left turns over the do not enters. I think in in listening to the residents of those side streets um in hearing their ask is like they're asking for
something that happens in this test phase and that we're trying to do some alleviation of the traffic that are on those side streets um whether it works or not and we have to change it but something that gets folks off those streets. I think coming into this I would have said I'd be more of a fan of the do not enter but I'm definitely
going to defer to um police and fire and things you think that can be enforceable and looking at the left no left turn that being at the top of the streets as well as the bottom I think that possibly would you know update the apps change the rules of the road a bit which would get the GPS apps from sending or
diverting people down the side streets um and telling them they cannot make that left turn during the time But in that, if we're able to put those signs up in the interim, um, is there opportunity for us to continue to partner with MASDOT for to find some of
those other solutions or have a more better connection between the traffic commission and the state and thinking about other ideas as we're piloting another piece on top of the pilot we have existing? Any thoughts on that? Yeah, like I said, I
I don't love altering a road at all in a test phase. I just feel like you're not really getting a true test. So, I get the ongoing like prevent, you know, provide some relief while working with mass dot, but you know, what's that relief going to be and how's that affect that? I'm not a
traffic engineer and I really stress that. I think that's more of a DPW question than a police question. You know, we're really limited to just enforcement. Um, you know, I I know the traffic counts were high on those streets, but now you do that left, you're putting all those cars back to the intersections.
I I mean, that's where they belong certainly, but those are the same intersections that I'm getting complaints. There's gridlock in the intersection. You need a cop in the intersection. I I can't have a cop on Clifton. I can't have a cop in every the intersection of Library Corner, another officer at the intersection of Randolph and Reed Steel. It's just not reality.
So, you divert, you know, I'm also a big fis person. That's a huge concern on these do not enters. Spafford Road came into us and we denied them a do not enter. So, you know, you do Clifton, you really have to do those four streets and I just think it isolates that neighborhood. I think it impacts
residents and I speak from experience on this. Everywhere this has been done, these poor residents rely on that and I get their concern, their safety concern, but then they can't go in those streets and they call for the police to come down, the police come down and then they get a ticket and they're just as I'm mad
as us if we're not there. we're in really a no-win situation. So, I I don't like these like band-aid approaches that just put an unrealistic burden on the police department. Um, you know, again, I think Mas probably put a good faith effort in and came out
a design, but are there other design options? You know, I mean, could it stay two lanes each way with more sets of lights or different timing sequence barriers in the middle? I mean, there's a million things if you just drive around other communities, you see. I don't know what that right solution is. I I think that lies with a traffic engineer. I'm 100% sympathetic. I have
friends on Clifton Road. But is this different than Warren A? Is this different than Holl Street? Like those are the neighborhoods that I deal with all the time. And these people come in and say, "Well, why did they get into not entering, not me?" And that's a tough thing to explain if you're not
being fair and consistent. Like we'd be better off with guidelines. There's got to be a minimum number of traffic cars. You know, there's got to be certain criteria. So, I just don't like subjective decisions because I feel we're going to lose credibility on my end. So, I'm strongly against do not
enters. We've denied them in many places. And so, you guys are the decision makers. I don't care. Like, I really don't. I don't have a personal interest in it. I'm 100% sympathetic. These poor people, you know, all of a sudden have 400 extra cars on their road. That's an awful situation. I get
it. But there's other streets in town that are little side streets. getting 700 cars. So, I just want to have the same credibility when I'm dealing with them that I've stuck to this. You know, we don't believe in it. All those time restrictions mean the enforcement has to be at the same exact time. It's
impossible for the police to be there consistently like that. And like I said is they're dealing with a brunt of it, but they're not the only street. There's other streets that lead in and off of Randoff A that are dealing with the same thing. We've heard complaints from Mark Lane, Heather Drive, Hillside, Forest,
people going up Ridgewood, the Kova, Brewster and Harborview, popping out on Eager. So, I just want to know like how do we handle them? Would we do something in one spot, not another? So, that's kind of my perspective, but I I welcome Chris, like I said, and I respect different opinions. That's just my
opinion. >> No, I I I agree 100%. >> Are the left turn are the no left turns easier in from an enforcement aspect? easier to enforce. There is a phase like Nick discussed. I think there's a learner phase that could frustrate some residents, but I do think over time it could minimize it. I think the phase is
you're going to get some people go up who maybe try and do the right thing and then you turn in a driveway and go back down Clifton. You're going to have some maybe turn right, you turn in at Highland Lane. You can kind of loop that little triangle there. Or you turn in a driveway and go. Um I do think as the
apps catch up with that, it would probably reduce it. I do think it's an easier enforcement for the police because under no left turn, you could arguably put an officer on Highland Street and he could see any car turning left out of any of those four streets
and enforce it. If you want to enforce a do not enter, you need somebody on the bottom of Clifton, the bottom of Spafford, Buckingham, Men, each one of those. So that's harder to enforce. You'd be choosing one of the four each day uh that you could spare somebody there. So I do think it's easier for
enforcement purposes from a police end. >> Other questions? >> Um I would just want to add a comment. So I think the chief made an important point about um
you know the any any change in a traffic pattern you know it's it's a network. It's going to have a network effect. Um, I really think the DPW traffic engineers, the police department need to look at
that area holistically. I know we've had um certain streets um local because they may have been receiving more of the impact, but there there has to be a way for
um the DPW to collab. I mean, Mass Dot has tools, um, you know, traffic analytics, etc., different models that can probably be looked at. Um, and I I think, you know, there there's a lot of
different ways to um, get to a solution, right? So, I think it's I think it's it's really it's people putting their heads together um, you know, and and and leveraging some of those tools. Um,
I think the the the no left turn is an interesting idea. Um, I understand about the do not enter sign. I have a do not enter sign on my street. I have been pulled over for going through my do not enter sign.
I didn't realize that you couldn't uh you could get pulled over as a resident. Um, learned that the hard way. So, anyone out there in the public, um, just because your street has it doesn't mean, um, it applies to you, too. Um,
you know, and and they and they are difficult to enforce. You know, I don't I I don't think we really do one ways in this town. I've never seen one. Um, you know, again, like it it would requ but but there are there are many ways to
think creatively to address these things that, you know, I I I just think it it requires um our town staff and the and the state talking about it. >> Mr. Wells does have his hand up.
>> Uh Mr. Wells, you recognized. >> Um thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to make sure is Miss Hagy done? >> I am done. >> She is she? >> Yes. >> I can talk a lot about this topic. >> I know you can. I can too. And I don't want to. So yeah,
>> um Mr. Chair, I'm going to have a couple comments and I'm going to make a motion if that's okay with you. >> Uh I that's fine by me. I I still have some uh things to add, but take it >> only because time is a as you know is the thing for me tonight. I only have so much time. I'll make a motion just for the purpose of discussion. So to chief
to the chief's point of view as he knows I've sat in the same seat for a long time and shared that commission which he fortunately doesn't have to do. Um I agree with the do not enters and I've said this publicly. I said it in the residents meeting. I said it in our
meeting previously. It just it just you know for years this town used it chiefs before traffic commissioners before my time a lot during my time and in Chief King's time started to move and I and I always understood it because I used to think
that for the one that you give the do not enter to the others that don't have it but they suffer the brunt of the extra vehicles that would have gone on the streets that you restrict. So, um I think for all of us to include the police drunk cuz I don't think we need
100 people in his front lobby tomorrow or our front lobby. I think we have to try something. I do want to even though my time with Mass is new, um I have to give them credit. They've been very and Mr. Milano knows this. They've been very proud of their engineers. Howard Stein Hudson, I mean
they've done everything they can with us here to try and do this. I mean, as the chief had mentioned previously, he and I said this last night, he had thought about me jersey barriers, but that would have made it even tougher for turns. So, um, and as far as the pilot,
I don't think it goes away. We may be tweaking it, but I think some semblance of what Masdat has put in place is proven to be much safer than what existed before that. And so, I think in some way, shape, or form, you're going to see it. And I think however the
roundabout when it's completed plays into it which will which will be a constant forward traffic. No matter how you look at it there'll be no more red green lights. It'll be constantly falling um both in peak and on peak hours. So given that uh um my motion, Mr. The chair that I'm thinking about
would be to go with option two that the traffic commissioner discussed which would be installing um no left turns Highland and Clifton, Highland and Martin, Highland and Buckingham and Highland and
Spafford. My only thought would be and I'm going to ask the chief to weigh this. I think three to six might be a little I think most of them chief you can I think I'm most of them are like seven to n they're two hours
versus three 7 to 9 and 4 to 6 or 5 to 7 I just wonder what you my motion would be to make it from 4 to 6 versus 3 to 6 I just wonder what you think of >> um the mornings they're 7 to 9 the
afternoons you know it depends on where they were you know some of They really predate me, but I think you see the three to the earlier ones like on the streets by like Milton Academy, like Center Lane, Science Lane, those >> uh some of the other neighborhoods, they're more in the four to six range.
>> Um I'd really defer that decision to the data we collected and what you know, the residents probably know what the peak hours are, but I think it shows on the date. I just don't have that in front of me. >> Well, Massd definitely has it. Mass MD has one. I'm going to So, my motion and we may have to change it, Mr. Chair. My
motion is going to be um the hours and that would be from 4 to 6 um on all four of those locations that I just mentioned. >> Okay. Motion. >> Thank you. Uh a motion's been made. Is there a second? >> I second.
>> Seconded by Miss Hagerty. Um so, u Mr. Wells, if you're all right with that, I'd like to entertain >> Oh, yeah. Mr. Chair, I I just wanted to get it off the floor. >> No, thank you. I appreciate you putting it on the floor. Um, are there other before we go into about other comments or questions uh that folks would like to
make? Um, I, as you can tell, probably probably have one, but uh, >> my my only quick comment is I I still think that, you know, conversation should continue to evaluate the other potential
downstream impacts. I mean, every single move you make can have, you know, an additional impact. So, it's just I think it's I think it's analyzing the whole neighborhood, running different scenarios, but I think
this is a worthy test. >> I I would uh I second what member Heerty said, and I think um if we're going to do the left turn signs that we engage with the neighborhoods to let them know Yeah. Yeah, >> that we're going to be putting those up >> um more than you know the folks that
have been able to join us and speak that we're talking to them about we're going to be putting these signs up talking about the hours what the changes are going to be and secondly that we engage MAS DOT a little bit more directly to Chief King's point about other options I
think MASDOT has been hesitant to interfere in local roads they've really been sticking to AB in the state space but I think if we ask them they're willing to come in and give us some, you know, they've run these pilots and these tests across the state. Um, they can
give us some other options, tell us some other results they've had, but we're going to need to actually ask for that help and that engagement. So, it's not just us trying to think of, you know, impact on our residents, but the whole road diet and 28 and all of the overflow
um sort of holistically, not just us doing local and them doing the state piece that we're all putting this together. >> Thank you, Mr. Daily. Um, Mr. Wells, I I I have uh two questions for your motion and then I I have a quick question for the traffic commission. Um, so I might
do the traffic commission question first and then and then come back to you. Um, one of the options that we me >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Wells. Um, one of the options that we talked about, uh, on this board, the last time we had this discussion, there was, um, uh, I can't
remember which of the neighbors it was, but made the observation that there was a lot of left-hand turns taking place. Like people were coming up Pleasant and then instead of turning left onto uh, Randolph, they go past and then turn left onto Clifton, which was a significant source of traffic. Um, so
one of the ideas I think that was mooded was that they're maybe putting no left-hand turns into any of those four streets from Randolph, right? So rather than the left hand onto onto Highland from Randolph going in towards the library or that's Reedsdale on Reedsdale
going in towards the library. Uh, no left-hand turn on any of those four streets. Was that discussed at the traffic commission as a as a possible? >> No. >> Not that I can. >> No. As I say that, does that sound like something else that in terms of an
enforcement issue? It it's it seems to me like you'd have kind of a similar situation where you could just have somebody observing to see if there's any left-hand turns taking place there. >> Yeah. You know, I don't want to say it's impossible. I'd say that's slightly different trigger than the other one
because on the other one you have four streets exiting arguably all turning left. So whichever street that car comes out of out of they're turning left. So this a cop in one position can grab all four. >> If the cop sitting on Reedsdale, he has to really be beyond the fourth to
observe all four. >> Yeah. >> But now if they turned up the first one cliff did. You got to chase up to get them to get up. You're not going to be kind of as efficient or effective catching those people. So I do think it's more difficult to enforce. That almost is like the do not enter. You almost have
to monitor every street. And while I agree that's happened, I've seen it. I've gone to Clifton Road to like monitor the traffic stuff. That happens, you know, that's only solving that coming from the east side, headed westbound. It wouldn't solve all the people that are coming the other way
from the library in the hospital and backing up the light and turning right. So I feel that's le less effective because if you're going to do it by doing it at Highland Street, you're stopping the cars whether they came from East Milton or whether they came from Kelly Fields. That solution would only
solve the ones coming from East Milton, not the ones coming from Kelly Field. So I feel like you'd be going all through the work, all the same enforcement, probably worse enforcement, and you probably getting I feel less than 50% of them. I feel like more than 50% are coming the other direction. >> Okay. Thank you. That's helpful. Um, so
then a I have a quick question for Mr. Milano. In terms of the the actual cost in terms of putting up signs, do we is there is that is there a general ballpark figure for how much it would cost to put up four signs? I'm just curious.
>> We put them up inhouse. So that's a it's a in internal operation of staff. Um, it's the cost to purchase and and the time to install >> minimum. So, I I guess I think to to member Hegger's points, which I think were
really well made, um my uh I think it's it's it's essential for us to continue to try to work with MASDOT to see what kind of other resources we can have to um to look at this issue because I think as as Chief has has pointed out in
Sergeant Ernst, there's um it's complicated and one fix may not necessarily um almost certainly won't solve the whole problem. Um, so it my thinking on this is that we may want to put up those signs
for a period of time and then come back to evaluate them cuz I think sometimes what's happened with traffic, you know, situations is you put up a fix and you leave it there and then it stays there for an age and then possibly something else gets resolved and we don't need
them anymore. So it may may make sense to put like a six-month window on it. uh to come back and um you know to continue to work with Mass DOT and then if there are other solutions that Massdot or our own DPW can kind of come up with that
allows you know there's a sort of a natural lapse for that uh for those signs and then in 6 months if if it seems like everything's working and and the neighbors are happy with it we can keep them up. Uh or if there's another solution that's presented itself maybe then we can figure out what that other
solution is. Um, I just I worry that if we put them up now, it may we may feel like we've done our jobs and I don't want us to walk away like we put up four signs, job done, right? Like we we need to continue to engage with MADOT on this uh
as they continue to work on the on the pilot and the road diet. Um, so Mr. Mr. Wells, my question to you is, would you be willing to entertain a a friendly amendment to your motion to make it for a six-month period?
>> So, why don't why don't we say this? Why don't we say pending additional info, let's make it for the period of the road diet. I can't remember what they said. They did say the date last night. I just don't remember. I don't remember if it's a Mr. Milan. I can't remember if it's
April. Uh but why don't I I can live over 6 months just I have a comment to your comment if that's okay. >> Of course. >> So I brought up the issue. >> Oh, I think we might have just lost you, Mr. Wells,
>> because I made note of everything that we talked about. So in a meeting that my back am I muted? >> Uh no, no, you just kind of faded out for a second, but you're back now. >> All right. Okay. So, in a meeting in a we had a premeating uh earlier in the week and I presented all all the things that I knew that the traffic commission
was talking about and um the suggestion that came to us that you just brought up the resident brought up about the no left turn from Reed Stland. Um I came out whether it was Howard Stein Hudson or Mass themselves who felt and I kind of
agreed that all that a no left on region like that just as Chief King described would be too dangerous and probably would not meet what is called the MUTD the mass unified you know traffic definition. So um that's why I didn't include that in in my motion but I I
could I could go with six months. So what why don't we say what's today? Well, we could maybe say from >> April 1st. >> Yeah. I do. We want to do it today or do we want to because I think there's a messaging component too where >> make it to the end of the road diet.
>> We we could just make it to the end. >> There's no specific date. The website says spring of 26 and they they've called it a six-month diet. >> So maybe like June 1st or something like that. >> I think that makes sense. >> I would do that. >> Okay. >> Cuz we're cuz we're not traffic engineers. like I don't I don't know if
like >> well and and we can I think the select board can at that time continue to you know to we'll obviously continue to look at this and so they they if it's working well they could just you know we could vote to stick them up permanently. >> Um but I think as a as our own sort of
non-engineered pilot maybe that this is something that we could do. Um so Mr. Wells are you okay with that like a June 1st revisit >> date? and and just and and just to the to what Miss Hagerty said is from everything I've seen in the meetings
I've had with them and all the things that I've listened to then they're taking this very serious you know the truth is this is about the preservation of life and as the chief and sergeant are install the reason they're here is from the multitude of serious accidents
the whole reason for the roundabout multitude of serious accidents and fatalities I was impressed that they not just were looking at um the 28 car, they're looking at all the side streets we've talked about. They're looking at Hillside, Anquity, Route 138. They
they're looking they're trying to take the you know the 30,000 foot view versus just an ad hoc and and I appreciate and I don't I don't see them going away from this. I think they realize the significance of this and and as I said last night, there were many
wonderful things about this community. Unfortunately, traffic, commuter traffic especially, is not one of them. So, I'm filed whatever you want to put on it for a time frame. And my only question is, do we want to go um 4 to six instead of
3 to six? I think four to six is more in unison with what other restrictions are across town as the chief and I just mentioned. >> I'm looking into the audience to see if there's any strong preference one way or the other. >> Threeear buses. Yeah, >> I don't think it can. I don't think you can take that from the I think you need
to look at what you've got existing because uh as the chief will tell you when you do for one then you're going to get into a which is how the whole do not enter thing we the town got into a we gave them no not we that I guess we it
was the town and most of micro way before my time and they someone came for it and if they made eye they just got it and I don't think anyone was looking as big picture back then as as what Chief King has described to the way things looked guideline. >> Can I ask a quick question? >> Of course.
>> Mr. Wells, the the reasoning behind four to six as opposed to 3 to six >> cuz that's what all the others are. >> So if you fall if you fall which So consistency. So the entire Yeah. But the
entire center street all those all that down there. East Milton um Rose Street Oda Street. >> Okay. And I might have I might not have noticed all those PM because these are what you consider PM restrictions. All the PM restrictions are 4 to 6 just as
the AM restrictions are 7 month. >> Okay. >> I think John had a >> Yeah. John concern about school buses. School buses >> four to six would be >> would be better for the school buses. >> Marina mentioned that that the signage may be able to say accept school buses. There's one school bus that comes up
from between 3:30 and 4:00 and takes a left on Highland. That would be the one thing we would but the traffic is consistency from 3:30 to 6:30. >> So if we do 4 to six and then we also
include a school bus exclusion is that >> it's the school bus is gone before 4. >> 4 to 6 would be >> okay. I think maybe ra I think maybe let's try 4 to 6 and then again we can revisit this if you guys are like it's
still it's terrible at 2:30 in the afternoon we can we can figure that out. Is that consistent Chief King with the other signs around town the 4 to 6 window? >> Yeah I I think for consistent I think that's when the problem is I mean correct me if I'm wrong it's not prior to four really right >> picks up at 3:30
>> I'd be happy >> okay >> all right so we have a motion so Mr. Oh, sorry. Yes, John, you have a comment. >> Are they going to have a grace period? So, when you pull them over, you're going to say no more. >> I mean, unofficially, yes, they do, but
like we don't order it as a grace period. I think just the cops have common sense, so to speak. And they really give that learning curve to people uh generally, but I just don't say it's a grace period, meaning >> they could technically break the law for two weeks.
>> But when you first start doing it, you're going to need more than one policeman there, right? Yeah. Well, is there no left? I think we could have forced that. The problem is you could have 10 cars at once with cop. Yeah. I mean, we'd have to put more than one to be effective, but sometimes you only grab some. You might have grabbed them
all, but they're going to see those cars getting stopped, which has an impact usually because they'll know they got caught today, I might get caught tomorrow. So, >> and then once they get the ticket or warning, they got to turn go back down. >> No, they would probably let them go just cuz a safety hazard to turn them around. Yeah. >> Thank you.
>> Welcome, sir. Can I ask a question? I know in the last Is that all right? >> That's Yeah, fine. >> Oh, I can wait. >> No, it's totally fine. Um I know at one meeting I was at there was mentioned that there might be like a flashing light sign on just notifying people of the change in traffic pattern.
>> I I I had the same question. So for the folks who are at home, um the question from the the audience was uh what kind of signage flashing lights or otherwise would be uh posted to make people aware of the sign change? Is that about right? >> Just so >> would you do like digital?
>> We have a we had or >> have had a variable message board that got hit over the weekend. >> The one outside of DPW. >> So I talked to him. >> Was it you? >> No. >> So we talked. It's just a hard >> we um we were talking this afternoon so
we are working on it but we would in the idea that Marina and I were discussing was both a a variable message board to to announce it and then also signage permanent not you know permanent temporary signage at each of the locations. So where do
>> we have a time frame on when we would get that that sign installed? >> Uh work we'll have to work on it just with the with the recent events. I don't Does the police have one? We thought maybe. >> Yeah. So, DPW has it and we have it. >> Yeah, we do. You have one that we I
wasn't sure and we hadn't talked. So, >> yeah. One down. >> That was my one to go. Don't take that as a challenge. Uh folks, um so I Yeah, cuz that was a concern for me too if we if we didn't have clear signage then and I think to Mr. Driscoll's point, you know, folks aren't quite aware of it
yet. >> Um >> there's definitely a learning curve. >> Yeah, there will be a learning curve. There's, you know, life is a is a whole learning curve. Um, >> and just with the holidays and with expected lower traffic that by the time the regular world starts back up again,
um, I would expect a long learning curve only because we should expect lower volume and lower exposure for the next few weeks here. >> That's that's correct. Um, final question too, in terms of the apps, when do they get uh, so I know we'll we'll inform DOT of this and then they inform
the the apps. >> Uh, yes. >> So, usually like a week lag. I can't speak to that. >> I think last night um what they said in the meeting is they communicate directly with the app services. >> Okay. >> But they are unable to say exactly when they will update. >> Okay. But they know. All right. Okay.
That's good. >> Thank you. >> Um Okay. So then uh I think we have a we still have the motion on the floor to uh follow uh the second recommendation from the traffic commission which would be install do not left turns restrictions from 4 to 6 p.m. on Highland uh from the
four roads uh of um Spafford, Buckingham, Martin, and Clifton. um and uh to revisit the decision on uh June 1st uh while continuing to um meet with Mass DOT and it's been seconded by Miss Hagerty. You take all the um
amendments as friendly amendments as the senator. >> Okay. >> Um any further discussion on this? Uh this will be a roll call vote because we have Mr. Wells hybrid. Uh Mr. Wells, >> yes. >> Mr. Driscoll, >> yes. >> Miss Hagerty, >> yes. >> Mr. Daly,
>> yes. >> And myself, yes. So, we will um Mr. Mona, you want to give uh the residents here and and at home a quick sense of the timeline for getting that up? >> Uh we'll we'll still need to coordinate purchase and installation. So, it'll be
um a bit I'll provide um you more a more official update once I have that from DPW. Um so, nothing concrete this evening. Sorry. But at least we have the vote and we'll move on from there. >> Thank you. And thank you, Chief King. Thank you, Sergeant Erns, for being here. Always pleasure to see you both.
>> Mr. chair if I I just wanted to make just you know one comment in terms of >> course >> and I should have said it in the earlier part of the conversation but masot did share some travel time data that they had pulled and I think the issue that we're talking about this evening is something we've talked about for a while
is the crunch at Reedsdale and Randolph and the impact that that happens and their travel time data showed that the southbound average travel at was at 15 minutes which was 9 minutes longer than the pre-installation so whereas the northbound travel during the AM peak is
8 minutes, which is 2 minutes longer. So, we're anecdotally and through the data that we have seeing that the southbound commute is worse. And um so, you know, in terms of engaging with MASDOT is is if we can able to resolve that problem a
little bit more, maybe that will lead to less of the impacts that we're seeing here. So, I just I should have mentioned earlier, I just wanted to share that information. >> Is interesting though, isn't it? >> They did not go up correspondingly. It it it is the southbound commute is worse um and significantly longer on average. And at the peak the peak travel time was
22 minutes southbound. >> 22 minutes from uh from Reedsdale to Chikatab from Reed to >> Chick. This is the morning commute. >> No, even that was the PM commute. And then the AM commute heading north, the average was 8 minutes and the max was 9
minutes. >> So significantly shorter AM commute. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, once people go into work, they should just stay there, I guess. >> Can I just speak briefly? >> Yeah, that's fine. Just introduce yourself and your um address.
>> Um Amy Marrison, 58 Clifton Road. I just wanted to thank you all for your support and for working with us on this. Um it means a lot to our neighborhood. Um and we very much appreciate um that this, you know, is a a pilot. We want to
continue that dialogue. Um we we know that this is an important project on Randolph A. Certainly we all live here and travel Randolph A as well. So um thank you and just uh you know I think the other important thing to note for
Masdot is the um upcoming apartment complexes that will you know also impact this traffic flow you sometime next year. So, this, you know, will will very much be an ongoing thing, but um we're we're very open to continuing to provide
feedback and um and help in any way we can. So, thank you very much. >> You're very welcome. Uh and I just return it back. I think, you know, traffic issues can be really blood boiling uh in this town and I feel like folks have really um you know approached
this I think with the appropriate um really neighborliness and um you know willingness to solve problems. So very grateful um to to to work with you on this and probably continue to work with you on it. So hopefully we'll still have good good feelings in a year's time.
But thank you very much. Um Mr. Milano, are we all set on that one then? >> Uh, yes. Thank you. >> Okay, great. Thank you. Uh, so moving on to item six, we have senior tax workoff program income eligibility requirement.
>> I'll turn it over to our COA director, Christine Stanton, to >> Great to see you, Miss Stanton. >> Give a little background on the program and what the request is. >> Thank you for having me. Um, so I'm coming before you tonight to uh ask you to consider raising the income
guidelines that we currently use for the senior tax workoff program. Uh, currently it's tied to what's considered low income, which is 60% of Massachusetts median income. So if you're a single homeowner, um, you cannot have gross income higher
than 51,777. And if it's a twoerson household, it's 67,709. So I did um reach out to um it's traditionally administered by councils
on aging in um towns and cities. So I reached out to many and um I believe you should have a a chart that I made. if not um it has about um 12 cities and
towns ranging from um we're in the lower end. >> We we do have it. >> Thank you. We're on the lower end as you can see. Um and actually um what was it was it was quite eye opening of a of a exercise to
do because it's so different and it varies um tremendously. Doesn't it isn't tied to population. it it it's really um set by the governing board of each city and town. So there are actually five that have no income limit which I found
interesting. Um, but in discussions with town administrator Milano, we came up with what we think is reasonable, which would be using the same eligibility guidelines that the senior circuit breaker tax credit program uses, which
are um for single individuals 72,000, head of household 91,000, and married couples 109,000. And as you can see, there are two towns on the comparison chart, Hangingham and Westwood, who currently use those as guidelines. So,
we wouldn't be way out of um line, I don't think. And um we have 25 slots available in the program and I've um only been able to fill 14 of them. So, I feel if we were able to, it would
increase the um amount of applicants and um you know, you utilize the program to the fullest and and really help people in town who are um hanging on to their homes and want to stay in town and um age in place. So, we see that every day
here. So, um I appreciate your consideration. Um >> great. Thank you. Uh questions from the members. Um, so 25 slots available. Last year you had 14. >> Yes.
>> Do you know of folks who would have applied but the income restrictions have limited them? >> I only had one. Um, so I think you know just getting the word out that we have increased the guidelines would make it more um accessible to people and they
would be more apt to apply but only one was over the limit. Is this recent that you've been unable to fill the 25 slots in the past? Have you been able to fill all >> No, it's always been around the same level. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I have I have a quick question. Is there
a reason that um that we set the eligibility limit the income limit to 60% of Smi? Was like was there like a policy rationale behind that? >> It predates us. So, um um >> maybe
>> and uh it could have been um like I mentioned it it's set to what's considered low income, which you know it's supposed to help residents of low income, but in the research I did it was widely varied. Um you know, you could
make $200,000 and live in a $2 million house and work 133 hours to get $2,000 off your property tax. I I was shocked really. It was amazing. and it didn't didn't um matter the population or the um amount
of seniors in the town. So was quite varied. So I think our proposal is is fair and um I think it would help people as I mentioned. >> So um quick question for me. We don't have a hand up online. Um this would
then adjust going forward with this with this uh tax uh with the uh circuit breaker. Is that right? So in 5 years it would be a little higher. >> Correct. We would tie it to that as the guideline. >> Did you um when you spoke with the other
towns um h are they also finding it hard to fill all of the slots or did you um inquire about how that's going for them? >> It depends on the makeup of the senior population. Um and also the other thing
that was widely varied were um towns have anything from 10 available slots to 100. >> Mhm. So um the the Westwood has a hundred and it was quite as she said I fill about 80 every year and it's a lot
of administrative work to get to get th those off the ground and also to find the positions >> throughout the town and schools um that and and the skill sets of people too to >> Right. It just starts to become a bit ownorous if you've got almost like a
full workforce. Yeah. >> Mr. Wells has >> Mr. Wells, you're recognized. >> Thank you. Thanks, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Christine, as always. Um, just for especially for Miss Haggett and Mr. Dale, two things, and Miss Milano can
weigh in on this. For some reason, the board of assessors had I thought had some info for us on this. And I I might be wrong, but soon as Christine, you started to speak, somehow the board of assessors came into my head. And I'm not sure why but you might be able to glean
some additional but last year we also this morning recall we had had a request from because it's a unique situation. Three members of the auxiliary fire fall into that category and they had asked to be included in this as you know
Mr. unique job that they do. They volunteer hundreds of hours every year, whether it's a crime scene or a multiple alarm fire tonight or a serious motor vehicle accident. They get up at zero cost. And this unit has existed my whole career. Um that we include. We had
talked about looking into this and getting back to them. And I'm I'm sad to say a whole year has gone by and it hasn't. It just popped into my head tonight as soon as the issue I saw it on the agenda. I'm like, we need to address this. So, if we could maybe figure out a way to do this, maybe you could talk to
Paul Hopkins, the director yourself, and maybe we could look to include them, especially where there's um spots open. A lot of people wouldn't think of it because it's a public, but they were a volunteer unit. And if the members remember Chief King spoke of them the last time he was here when he
gave his department update report, he talked about the omen's work that they do for free. And three of them fall into this category. So just just my comment other than that that's all I wanted to add. I'm also >> so uh member Wells there I do have two
um auxiliary fire members participating in the program. If there's a third >> you do okay. So I didn't know they so that's good. So I that >> I didn't know they were they were in it. So that you just made me a happy man. So disregard everything else they said.
>> Well said. >> Duly noted >> the point on the board of assessors. So the way this program is funded is through uh what is termed what is called the overlay. So a portion of the tax levy every year goes into the overlay uh where exemptions are paid out of abatements are paid out of and this is
paid out of as well. So if uh we were interested in increasing the number of positions therefore increasing the cost to the town to run the program we would then have to work with the board of assessors to increase the appropriation into the overlay to make sure the funding was available. But that's that's the interaction with the assessors. Um
you know all the town hall the town hall financial departments are all involved in terms of administration making sure that that payments are done correctly um including the assessors but the direct involvement is um they set the appropriation uh where this uh amount is paid out of
>> which is a maximum of $50,000 um 25 participants times 2,000. Well, I think we can probably um entertain a motion on this unless there's other questions. >> Yeah. I'll move to approve the
recommended changes to the income eligibility requirements for the senior tax workoff program. >> Second. >> All right. Motion made by Mr. Dailyaly, seconded by Mr. Driscoll. Any further discussion? This will be a roll call vote. Mr. Wells. >> Yes. Sorry, Mr. Chair. That's all right.
Uh, Mr. Driscoll, >> yes. >> Miss Heggerty, >> yes. >> Mr. Dailyaly, yes. >> And myself, yes. >> So, we'll go ahead and adjust to that. Uh, and, um, keep us posted if, uh, if there's anything that we can do to be helpful to help advertise or get the word out about this. It is a really great program and appreciate you coming
here and advocating for it. >> Thank you very much for your support and all you do. >> Thank you, >> good night. >> Thank you, Christine. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Uh, item seven, Mr. Milano is a fiscal year 27 budget.
>> Sure. And I'll um I'll group this with item 8 as well just as just a process update more than anything. Um the select board finance committee is scheduled to meet on Friday morning. Um and I will discuss the budget and in greater detail at that meeting. Um I would plan to to
do a lengthier presentation about the budget at our meeting next week on the 16th as to um where things stand. Um how things are looking. Um we're getting some data at the end of this week that will pull together um a more wholesome update at our meeting next week. Um procedurally, we've received all the
departmental budget requests. Those have also been delivered to the warrant committee. Uh the warrant committee members have been meeting with department heads. I'm attending the warrant committee meeting on Monday the 15th to talk about the budget as well. Um so um the process is underway. Um and
um you know we're I wouldn't say we're ahead or behind schedule. We're just generally on schedule in terms of where the budget is um and we'll share more concrete details um next week on capital. The capital committee likewise has been meeting um has had sever a couple of meetings so far. They met with
um they met as a group to review their initial requests um and they met with uh the consolidated consolidated facilities director Tom McCarthy last week to talk about um the various requests for both town and school facilities. And then um Thursday morning at 7:30 they'll be they
have um DPW director Marina Fernandez in to talk about um the various DPW capital requests um as they undertake their work. Um so that is also in progress and we have another meeting scheduled for um next Thursday as well to keep that uh moving forward. So those are my updates
on the budget. Um just as in closing, I know I've said this several times at each of our meetings, but um just the macro health insurance issues that we continue to work through. Um we should have more information on that this week that I'll be able to share next week. Um
but the um the health insurance issue is is real. Um we had a 14% premium increase in for this fiscal year. We're looking at um having to face premium increases that could potentially just as high as that in this upcoming year. um every 1% premium increase is about
$140,000 on the budget. So um it's it gets expensive really fast for both the employer, us, the town, as well as our employees who are bearing the other portion of that um when the premiums go up. Um so we're, you know, concerned
about the impacts on health insurance on the budget. Um and then just as everybody knows, cost of business continues to go up. So, um, we'll put together, like I said, a more comprehensive update at our meeting next week. >> Great. Any questions? Mr. has raised his hand,
>> Mr. Wells. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. And so, for the capital committee, we may meet on Christmas Day if we have to, just in case we have to this year. That's all I wanted to say. Um, Mr. Chair, as I had um sent information, I had four things
on my calendar tonight. And, um, so I'm following that. I am going to leave show you. My only ask is if we could defer the two committee appointments until the next meeting. I think one's capital and one is the new committee. I'd like to be able to weigh in on those. Other than that, um I'm on board with everything
else that uh is before us tonight. >> Um do we have any are those committees meeting before next Tuesday? >> Capital is meeting on Thursday. Um but that individual whoever was appointed wouldn't be sworn in would be sworn in anyway and signed up likely by then.
>> Okay. >> I agree as chair of that committee. I don't I don't anticipate seeing the new member before the first of the year. >> Is there any objection to um deferring those items to ne next Tuesday and as a reminder we are meeting next Tuesday. Will you be here in person Mr. Wells?
Will we get to see you? >> I don't know. Maybe is this going to be a long meeting or short meeting? >> Well, it depends on you. >> TBD. >> Oh, yeah. All right. So, don't say that, please. Um, so if we're going to defer those, I'll figure that out. I don't know if I'll be on Zoom or but I will be I will
be participating. I just don't know whether it'll be okay. >> On Zoom or as you know, I'm deeply committed to my brother's keeper this time of year. So, I it's a commitment I've made for many years. So, >> okay. >> Kind of have to I kind of put them put first. So,
>> would you be all right? We do we have one application for the Council on Aging as an associate member. We could run through that one then. >> Oh, I'm fine with that. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I'm fine with that. It was only the two new committees, that's all. >> Okay. >> Um, >> uh, we will, uh, we will defer on those then for you. >> Thank you very much. >> You're welcome. Thank you for joining
us. >> Have a good night. I'll see you on Tuesday. And thank you. Um, I didn't know, Nick, that um, you had included that the Zoe firefighters. That's very pleased to hear that. That was a great move on our part because they do do so much for this town. So, thank you all
for that. >> All Christine, not me. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Wells. So, uh I think then um we'll have a longer discussion on the FY27 budget uh on next Tuesday. Uh so we're going to then uh financial policies reserve policy second
reading. >> Yes. Uh Mr. Chair, I we had talked very briefly, excuse me, we had talked briefly about the reserve policy last week. I kind of ran through the the basic um elements of it. Um I didn't get any questions or comments in the
intervening time period. Um happy to take that up this evening or if the board would prefer to take that up with the budget um together next week. This I think our goal was to have it done by the end of this calendar year. So um the now that the first reading has been done
the board can take up and and approve it at its either this evening or next week. >> Any preference from the members? Um, I think me member Hegodity and I have looked at it a lot. So, >> yeah, I'm I can't look at it again.
>> So, what we're I'm happy to take a motion on this. >> Yeah, >> but then do I have to read it all again? >> No. >> Okay, that's good. >> I mean, I I think this is I think that this is a great thing. it um you know it's going to
help us have more financial discipline um and you know give us give us more of a cushion for um you know some minor shocks here and there um but really
really to have these reserves it's just it's what municipalities should have um and I really want to Thank Nick for leading, Mr. Milano for leading us in this process and for everybody.
Um, you know, we we had folks on the budget coordination committee take a peak, folks on the warrant committee take a peek. Um, this was a very collaborative process, I feel like, and um, I I think it's I think it's a big
step forward for the town. Great. Well, I'd be happy to take a motion then if if we'd like to move ahead with it tonight. >> Motion to approve our new uh financial policies, new reserve policy after the second reason.
>> Motion's been made and seconded. Um Mr. Milano, do we have any uh um anything we need to do before so I don't have to read it all again? Nope. >> Okay, that's great. It was in the uh doc uh excuse me select board meeting packet um this meeting and for the prior meeting as well.
>> Right. >> No, I just meant in terms of >> No, yeah, I just meant it was it was shared publicly as well. >> Um great. So motion's been made and seconded. Any further discussion on this? Uh so uh we're Mr. Wells is now off the meeting. Is it? >> He is. Yep.
>> So we can vote in a standard fashion. So all those in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed. All right. All right. So, that carries unanimously. Um, great. Well, let's move ahead to uh net metering credit proposal agreement
item number 10. Mr. Milano. >> Sure. Thank you. Um, and this is more of an introduction to a proposal that we are currently evaluating. Um, we've been approached to serve as an offtaker of um, netmeing credits. So to try to
simplify this, a solar developer is going to develop a project in Massachusetts and will earn credits that they would like to then sell. Um so they've approached the town of Milton to to purchase those credits. Um the price of the credits is based on utility
electrical prices and then we purchase the credits at a discounted rate. So the proposal that we're currently evaluating is to purchase the value of the credits at 17.5% discount. Um the credits can then be applied to electric bills um across the town and Milton public
schools um to offset our our energy cost. So in the market there's various elements of supply distribution um right now what we're basically buying is a coupon that will defay that would defay town and school um electrical budgets um
through no necessar it's not our solar array. It's nothing that we're involved in financially other than being the offtaker that would have a financial commitment to buy the credits and then apply them to various accounts um to earn those savings. >> So basically we would get a dollar for
every 83 cents we >> spent. Yes, >> we would have a dollar credit. Um so the where this stands currently is um actually a Milton resident from Rew Wild Renewables has reached out engaged with um um both Nick Connors and now Kai
Müller the town's energy manager through the energy manager grant program that we received funding for. Um we've evaluated with a couple of our partners in terms of um folks that we work with. Um, so we're still looking at the numbers, crunching the numbers a bit, but the
idea is that we would um aortion out um somewhere between 80% of our current electrical load, so not 100% of the electricity that we have today. Um, purchase credits for those, which is about 4.2 million kwatt hours a year. Um, so
we would have about in a round numbers a million dollar expense that would save us anywhere between$180 to $200,000 depending on the math. So that's very very broad kind of the concept is um we tie up a percent of our load and in and in in exchange for that
we get credits that we buy as a coupon for our our cost. Um I would say the risks would be it's a 25-y year agreement. Um so we're looking at that term and if the electric electricity market changes drastically if electricity is free 20 years from now
that would be a risk for us. It's it's those kinds of things that in terms of the length of the deal, it introduces a little bit of risk. Since we're always buying at a discount, um in theory, if we were to have enough solar enough alternative energy production that
Milton has directly, if our electricity load goes down and we don't have enough m enough um usage or dollars to spend the credits on, we could have a growing balance of credits without a place to apply them. Um the flip side of that token is even if we're able to do even
more solar or geothermal or whatever um as the town moves to electrify um our load would likely increase rather than decrease um even if we have alternative sources. So um >> where it stands now is we've sent the um agreement to KP Law for their review. Um
so they actually turned around initial set of comments um earlier this evening that we've that we've shared with them. Um, we have further review to do on the finances, but I wanted to introduce it to the board at this time to see if there's any questions, concerns, or comments um that will be helpful um as
we work through it to before we bring were to bring it back um to the board. >> Great questions or comments from the members? >> I mean, I' I'd be very interested in understanding the um you know, what our
what our potential savings are. I mean obviously to to address like any of our fixed costs in this way is you know pretty big. Um I don't know that there is like huge
risk that you know our electricity usage is going to go down in the future. um given the and and that electricity prices are going to crash just given the the way the economy and technology are moving. Um but I'm not an expert on
that. Um I so my question is in terms of electricity usage and payment. Do we do all of the um
departments go in and pay for electricity together or is there segmentation across Milton public schools and the rest of the town departments and you know just basically like how would that work? So we don't
have in terms of how it works today is various departments have electricity accounts within their budget and then they pay for um >> so it's not centralized. >> It's not centralized in terms of where the all the money is budgeted. Um it is in the school department budget. It's uh
actually I don't want to speak to that. So um every account is basically treated DPW has a ton between the s the street lights, traffic lights, um pumping stations, etc. So they have a ton of accounts that are considered under DPW.
Um each of the town departments that has a standalone building will have an electrical account in their budget that funds each of those buildings. Um >> okay. >> And then the way this would work is that we would tell Eversource which accounts to apply the credits to.
>> Okay. So, you know, um we would look at the larger um electrical loads that would apply and we would tell every source where to apply the credits. >> So, when you're going to consider the you know reappropriation of funds,
right? So, like I think of this as you free up money, right? um like how how like do you have any thoughts yet on how that decision- making is going to work? like will will
the savings just be >> spread townwide or you know is DPW going to say all right now we've freed up this and we're going to buy X number of trucks or the schools is like all right you know plausibly we've got an extra 80
grand >> we have not had that conversation as we've that's >> that's more of the second half of the equation it's it's an important it's a good question though >> it's going to be an interesting conversation >> but even if we were to look at it as >> I would tell you we'd try to share it so
that our expenses um >> go down but by a similar percentage um they will have larger buildings but fewer of them but between town hall the new fire headquarters there are there are larger council in town as well so that would be my initial reaction is to try to portion
>> that's a good problem to have >> yes right >> agreed other questions >> and in terms of your question in terms of the potential savings amount I didn't I didn't want to nail on a number just because um I just wanted to have it when it's accurate and final. Um but you
know, we'd be looking at potentially um anywhere between I'd say the 150 to 200 is is what we could look at conceivably in savings. Um but we need to nail down the numbers a little bit better. >> Y that is a lot of money. >> Yes. >> Put it towards the health insurance.
>> Well, it won't hurt. That's for sure. It'll help solve the next help us with next year >> in term. So just remind me again the the um the contract is for a percentage of our kilowatt hours or it's for a specific amount of kilowatt hours. So we
would execute it at with an expected amount and then it'll be final like a maximum no more than a certain amount of kilowatt hours and then once the project is finalized and that production is finalized it'll be adjusted based on what that project's final adjust um
consumption is and then they always include a deescalation in terms of um declining consumption or declining generation coming out of the solar year-over-year so that it would in theory go down each year slightly. um from the first year
>> and then I I I relatively familiar with energy credits. So this is this doesn't uh restrict our ability to buy electricity from from where we are already buying it
though. Correct. And that's because the issue would be we currently um have a three-year contract but it's directly build on Eversource's bills. We don't pay constellation directly for the supply that we get from constellation.
That would introduce a more of a challenge because that's like half the bill would be non Eversource because they're all on Eversource bills. The credits can be applied entirely to the entire Eversource bill. >> Great. >> Which covers the supply portion of it. >> Thank you. Uh other questions?
So it sounds like we can look forward to seeing the final version of this. Um what KP is uh has sent comments through just tonight. I guess we haven't seen them yet. >> So, we'll we turn them around um to Rew. We'll share them with yourself and then um have their attorneys review as well
and try to keep the the project moving forward from here. >> Great. Thank you very much. Fantastic. And uh and for those who are not familiar with energy credit sharing doesn't mean that we actually are using that solar power. It's just we're getting credited for the creation of it
and supporting the creation of it. So, and saving money at the same time. Uh item 11 is a one-day liquor license. Um would anybody like to make the motion?
>> I would like to make motion to approve a one-day liquor license for the Milton Art Center at 334 Edge Hill Road for February 6th, 2026 from 6:00 to 6:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. for first Friday in February. >> Second. Motion's been made and seconded.
Uh any comments? Uh I will make a comment very quickly that the um the first Friday event in December was a holiday event. It was uh a lot of fun and there was a really incredible turnout. Um my expectation is usually the February one is a uh it's love songs
for Valentine's Day. So if you're looking for uh a date idea, not on Valentine's Day, but Valentine's Day adjacent, uh I would suggest uh joining Uh so with no further discussion unless anybody else has something uh we can
vote on this in the standard fashion. All those in favor I >> All right. It carries unanimously. Uh item 12 is our 2026 liquor license renewals. Um >> and in the interest of saving time, I
will uh make the motion on this one unless there's any discussion. I just wanted to note that um for liquor licenses um everything on our list is is what's existing. There's nothing new. These are all renewals. Um the one that you won't see obviously is the plate um
which is going through its process. Um so everything is coming up for renewal. Um whether it's any violations or anything? >> Nope. And >> and there's nothing new >> and the building department completed their annual inspections of all of the locations as well. So, um, they are
they've got their paperwork in and, um, Lynn's handled those. So, um, >> it's a lot of work just to kind of handle the administration of it. So, uh, much appreciation both to Lynn and building department for conducting their inspection. So, um, >> thanks as always to Lynn. >> Heavy lift, but we're
>> at the finish line is approaching. So, thank you. Um, so I will make a motion to approve the 2026 liquor license renewals contingent upon the receipt of all necessary certificates required by chapter 304 of the acts of 2004 signed by the building inspector and the fire
department as listed on the agenda. >> Second. >> Um, t >> Miss Hagerty has it. Um, so motion's been made and seconded. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. >> All right. Uh, unanimous.
Uh our next item is uh 2026 Sunday opening permit renewals. Uh uh Mr. Milano, do we have any This is a uh for for folks who are uh allowed to sell alcohol between the hours of 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. for um on Sundays.
>> For package stores, correct? >> For package stores. Yes. Uh do you is there anything additional for that? N >> um would anybody else like to make the motion? I'm happy to do it again. Mr. Dailyaly
>> move to approve the 2026 Sunday opening permit renewals to sell alcohol between the hours of 10 a.m. and 6 pm for the businesses listed on the agenda central liquor mark. >> Oh, you don't have to read them then. >> Second. >> All right. Seconded by Mr. >> Driscoll.
>> Uh any further discussion? All in favor? >> I I >> All right. Carries unanimously. Um discussion approval item 14 2026 entertainment license renewals. >> Um >> my my turn to move.
>> You're very welcome to do it. >> Okay. I would like to move to approve the 2026 entertainment license renewals as listed on the agenda. >> I will second for a change of pace. Um
entertainment license uh allows you to do karaoke. I'm guessing >> uh TVs and speakers. >> TVs and speakers. Okay, there you go. Um so motion's been made and seconded. Any further discussion? All those in favor? I >> I
>> Great. Uh I love the end ofear business. Uh we have our 2026 common victual license renewals. Um would anybody like to make that motion? Mr. Driscoll, would you like to >> move to approve the 20 2026
entertainment license renew? >> The next one. >> Next page. >> Where? >> The next page. Motion to approve the renewal of common >> vicular licenses. This one. Sorry. >> No worries. >> Move to approve the re the renewal of common victual
licenses for 2026 as listed on the agenda. >> Second. >> Motion's been made and seconded. Uh any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. >> And uh I we are going to uh for our
board and committee. Oh, wait. We do have one more class dealer. >> Yes. Uh Miss Haggerty >> move to approve the class 2 dealer license renewal for 2026 for RBM Motor Masters, Inc. DBA Milton Auto Repair
located at 944 Cantav Imperium Automotive LLC DBAN Automotive located at 131 Brook Road. >> Motion's been made. Uh I'll second. >> Uh any further discussion?
All in favor? >> I. Uh, and then we we are done then I think with our um 2026 licenses. Uh, for item 17 um per Mr. Wells's request, we are only going to um have a vote here on
our uh the Council on Aging Associate Member. Um, so I'm happy to take a motion on that. I will make a motion to um approve to appoint Deborah Fidrai as an associate
member of the Council on Aging for a one-year term. >> Second. >> Motion's been made and seconded. Any further discussion? >> All those Did we miss one for the capital? >> So, um Mr. Wells asked if we could push those to next Tuesday because he had some thoughts about them.
>> So, that's why we're just doing um the Council on Aging. >> So, motions made and seconded. Did somebody second it? >> I second. >> Okay, Mr. Driscoll seconded. Um, any further discussion? >> All in favor? >> I >> I
>> um I can just plug again our board of committee appointments. Um, please master plan committee. We've received I believe we're at one applicant for that. So, if anybody's interested in the master plan committee, >> um, >> I thought we had two. >> We might have two, but we are we need
three. I got to I'll keep >> we need seven >> candidates. Um so uh between this board, the planning board and the town is a nine member committee. Um >> Oh, so that's just across the board. We've gotten >> maybe two total. Y um and then taxation aid committee. Um we do have three slots
to fill. So if anybody else is interested in our boards and committees, um the full roster of what is available and who we're looking for is available on the town website. Um, am I am I right to assume then that both Miss Robbins and Miss Steel could be appointed to the taxation a committee?
>> Correct. >> Okay. >> So, five member committee um that includes the treasurer and the chair of the board of assessors and then three residents appointed by the sub. >> I think Mr. Wells just was interested in the capital. >> So, do we want to do that? Um, >> do we want to do taxation aid? >> Okay, I'll I'll take a motion on that.
>> Move to appoint Amy Robbins and Judith Steel to the taxation aid committee for a one-year term. Second. Motion's been made and seconded. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I I >> And uh per Mr. Milano's advice, please, if you're interested in in volunteering
for the town, these committees are so important and you can make a big difference on them. >> And we did receive a a good bunch of applicants. So, we still have some more that we'll bring forward to the next meeting. So, we did get some in the door. >> All right. Uh we then we have a meeting
minutes from October 21st, 2025. Um this was um Mr. Driscoll, you were not yet with us at this point. Um so I will take a motion on uh on this one. >> Move to approve the meeting minutes dated October 21st, 2025. >> Second. Sorry.
>> Motion's been made and seconded. Um all those in favor? >> I I abstensions. >> Mr. Driscoll will abstain. Um, okay. Wow. Are we already at the town administrator's report? It's 8:25. >> We're cruising. >> I know. >> Going to get to go to bed. Had a great time.
>> The season. >> Yeah. >> Mr. Milano, how are we doing as a town? Please inform us. >> Thank you. >> Um, so um this the holiday stroll and and tree lighting was um on Saturday evening. Um, thank you to everybody that
attended. Uh the the trees on the lake did turn on when the countdown ended. So my stress for the day ended then when that happened. Um which is always um worrisome, but um it nothing to worry about because of our good team down at DPW, Jack Calabro, um uh Brian McCarthy,
Sar Lome, and I know there are a bunch of others I'm forgetting who were involved. Um Apollo Lighting, Paul Valhulie, who did the lighting on the exterior. um they came in and and donated 2 days of time to do that and and the equipment to do so. The tree which was purchased by uh
Mr. Driscoll and Anthony Musto. So we appreciate their efforts um Huntree for putting the tree up um and the chamber and all the volunteers um that help pull that event together. So we appreciate it um and look forward to another event next year. Um the we will be having um
Rabbi Benjamin is going to host um uh a little welcoming to Hanukkah on December 14th on the deck um as our the manora was also installed um next to the holiday tree. That will be the first night of Hanukkah which is Sunday, December 14th at 5:30 p.m. Um so we look
forward to having that and anybody who would like to come out. It was a nice event last year and look forward to seeing folks again um this year. I just wanted those are the two events I wanted to flag. I don't have much beyond that um at this time. I should note actually that we have four new firefighters who started last week. Um Aiden Smith,
Cameron Dickens, John Cloon, and Aiden Hoey. Um they've been working in the department this week and last week and then they start at the academy for a 10-week course at the academy and um we'll get them um working after that. So u welcome aboard and um best of luck at
the academy. Mr. Driscoll, >> Nick, could you on that deck there was a decorative light hit uh Thanksgiving weekend and Jack Calabro said that's a second one and they cost
like $25,000 and both cars were unregistered or uninsured. >> Beautiful. Okay. >> One was a year ago and one was this weekend. I mean Thanksgiving weekend. >> Okay. Um, I hadn't t I hadn't spoken to DBW about that, but I'll I'll get a
sense. >> It's right across from the shelf. There was one done a year ago. Y and then one Thanksgiving weekend. >> Okay. >> Right along that uh was that Bryant Dav, right? >> Bryant. Yep. On the other side. Okay. >> Yeah.
Plus, they hit the arrow board, right? Or the the signage. >> Yeah, the sign board. Yes. Yeah. Across from you. Yep. So, >> same area. Yep. Okay. Um, for the uh chair's report, I think the only thing that I will add to uh other than uh echoing Mr. Milano's
thanks uh to the chamber and everyone involved in the treelighting, uh I'd like to point out uh uh Boua Dame, am I saying his last name right? Dame uh was honored uh for his work. Um I think it was part of a giant work. Um so
congratulations uh to Mr. Diam for that and having his um volunteer service recognized. Um and I encourage everyone to come out to the uh lighting of the Hanukkia, also known as the Manora uh for on Sunday at 5:30. Um the Frozen uh
musical happened over uh right before Thanksgiving break and uh sold out all four shows. Um so kudos to the Milton High School theater department for putting on a fantastic play as always or musical I should say. Um and uh congrats
to the uh high school uh men's football team that ended the season on a uh with a nice victory uh over our rivals down in Brainree. Um that was uh exciting to see. Unfortunately, my uh stepson broke his hand the final practice and was
unable to participate. Um say Levy. Good news is he's a sophomore and probably wouldn't have played anyways. So, um, but we, uh, we're we're grateful to to all those involved in making that a great season, including the marching band, uh, which I believe won, uh, some honors at the state competition recently
as well. Um, anything else that anyone would like to call attention to happening around town? Okay. Um, public comment response, uh, we have nothing to respond to for that. Uh up future meeting dates uh we have December 16th uh which is next a week
from today the 2025 uh January 13th and January 27th of 2026. Um this will be our return to our typical uh second and fourth Tuesdays of the month. Um we we got a little funky around town meeting and then through the holidays. Uh but we
should be back on course uh for next year. Um uh so everyone I think is is duly informed and we'll be able to take a nice holiday break. Future agenda items, anything that folks want to uh bring up uh or that we haven't discussed yet.
>> Missy, >> so perennial item that I've been bringing up is the opioid settlement funds. >> They're coming next week. >> Oh, they are all right. Cool. >> There you go. Um okay. Uh, so if nobody else has any future agenda items, uh, I'm going to
read a few things here. Are we on all of these or can I skip? >> Uh, you can skip, Mr. Chair. Um, five and 26. >> All right. Uh, so I will, um, move to enter into executive session to discuss strategy
with respective to collective bargaining. Milton Clerical Unit of the Southeastern Public Employees Association, Milton Professional Management Association, Milton Public Employee Association, Milton Firefighters Local 116, Milton Police Officers, Milton Superior Officers, Milton Library Association.
Based on my belief that discussion of this matter in open session may have a detrimental effect on the bargaining position of the select board, the select board will not return to open session. >> Second. >> Seconded by Miss Hagerty. This is a roll call vote. Uh, Mr. Driscoll. Yes. >> Zagerty. >> Yes.
>> Mr. Dailyaly. >> Yes. >> And myself. Yes. >> Uh, I would like to move to enter into executive session to discuss strategy with respect to litigation in the matter of the town of Milton ODR docket number. >> Oh, nope. Skipped that one. Sorry. >> Sorry. Skipping. Oh. Oh, sorry. Yeah, you said that. Uh, I would like to move
uh sorry, move into enter into executive session to discuss strategy with respect to litigation. Town of Milton v. John A. Irwin Jr. trustee of the Fairfax Road Realy Trust at all number 24 TL 0000716. Based on my belief that the discussion
of this matter in open session may have a detrimental effect on the negotiating position of the select board, the select board will not return to open session. >> Second. >> Seconded by Miss Hagerty. Uh this is a roll call vote. Mr. Driscoll. >> Miss Haggerty. >> Yes. >> Mr. Dailyaly. >> Yes.
>> And myself. Yes. >> Um I'll take a motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjurnn. >> Yes. Second. Don't turn it off yet, Mr. Dailyaly. Um, >> don't touch that sweat. >> Just when you thought you were out, you're getting pulled back in. Um,
motion's been made. This is just a standard vote. Uh, all in favor? >> I. >> Um, so I would like to call to order a meeting of the Governor Stoen trustees, uh, for December 9th, uh, 2025. >> I'm sorry.
>> I have I have nothing to report on the session. Well, then I will um I will take a motion to adjourn from the governor's trustees. All right, that was the shortest meeting ever. Uh second uh seconded by Mr. Driscoll. Uh all in favor. Now we can turn off our microphones. Thank you everyone for
joining us. Part: 2
Welcome to the December 9th, 2025 meeting of the Milton Conservation Commission. Uh commission members are appointed by the select board to implement the rules and regulations of the state wetlands protection act as well as the Miltontown bylaw governing uh the wetlands. As a matter of
formality, we have uh two points. Uh first is that we invite everyone to speak, ask questions, make comments, but we do ask that you identify yourself because we are being recorded uh as part of the open meeting law. Uh second is we introduce ourselves. Uh again, as a
matter of formality, my name is John Kieran. Let me read right across my my screen here. Steve Ibis. >> Hello everyone. My name is Steve Ibis, conservation agent. >> Philip. >> Hello everybody. Philip Dristo, conservation clerk.
>> Thank you, Charlie. Charlie Bosworth, commission member. Aford Doyle. >> Good evening, Arthur Doyle, member of the commission. >> Wendy. Good evening. >> Good evening. I'm Wendy Garpo, also one of the commissioners.
>> Ingred, >> Ingred Batty, commission member. >> Tom, >> um Palmer, commission member. >> Uh good, good enough. And I'm John Kieran, uh commission member. Um all right, I think we're good to go. First
on the agenda is uh request for determination of applicability at 137 Highland Street. George, I think that's you. You're on, sir. >> Correct. Yes. Hi. Um I'm George from Quina Pools. Um we are um intending to build an ingground gun pool for um the
Bardi family uh the Bikardi Trust at 137 Harris which is uh which would be a 30x 50 uh foot inground gunnight swimming pool within their designated zone. Um so that's what we're seeking to uh do with
uh the approval of um the Milton Building Department and um Commission. Uh, Jo, this George, this is Steve Ibis. >> Hi, Steve. >> It's actually 137 Highland. >> Oh, 137. I'm sorry. >> Not not Harris. They'd be very
surprised. >> Highland. Sorry. >> No problem. >> I'm building a lot of pools around the >> Well, that's a good thing. >> Some homeowner would be surprised. >> Yes, >> indeed.
>> Hey, if you know somebody. So for >> the will be fil >> um so for members of the public and members of the commission um you've seen the request for determination and attached to that is a u an old
delineation from 2011 um uh so as a and George I think as you know that we uh they're only good for us within the last um three years but this is an RDA so Steve Ivvis was good enough and to go out and inspect the property and kind of eyeball it. And Steve, can you give us a
report on the wetland line? >> I I'd be happy to. Uh yes. Um if you're looking at the plan, there's a corner of the plan that shows the wetland area. And that plan
um the wetland area is opposite the pool in a diagonal direction from a corner. That would be the uh let's see the northwest corner of the site. There is a uh chainlink fence, a black chainlink
fence that surrounds the rear yard of the site to the westly. And I walked down and I walked right to the wetland flag. Um I I found a couple of wetland flags. I believe it was 52R
which means replaced and number 53 which were probably two years old. John is that right? >> Well uh for commission members and for members of the public the commission has been act on site several times because
this is the opposite side of the property line from 107 111 Highland where the uh memory care center is going. So we've actually uh been there several times within the last I don't know going back five years I guess we've been there quite a bit. So we're
accustomed to approaching this weather line from the other side looking at the Picati property rather than looking back towards the memory center. >> Yes. And frankly, um, I didn't have a tape with me, but it was well over 100 ft
between the pool location, which I found in the backyard. It's staked out presently on the property, and um, and the and the fence line. And it and once you hit the fence line, I should tell
you that it's it's lawn to the fence line and then it's leaves and sticks and tree trunks on the ground. Um, so anything coming from the pool
area uh would be stopped by the amount of the large amount of duff on the ground, leaves, small small twigs, pine pine needles, etc., etc.
So, it's well over 100 ft. But is the area that you just described, are you saying that that's upland but well good ground cover? >> Yes. >> I'm not sure what you're saying. And beyond the fence to the wetland >> between be outside the outside the the
uh chain link fence there's a uh we call let's call it a playyard um of of you know mowed lawn and then there's the fence and then there's you know three to five inches of duff on the
ground leaves etc that you sort of wade through as you as you go down the hill slightly. there's a slight degrade downward toward the wetlands from the fence itself. >> All right. But from your experience
um in in delineating wetlands and understanding that these flags are what 14 years old and or they may be more frequent than that, but they don't appear to be within the last three years. What what is your estimate as to whether or not the wetlands are within
100 ft of the pool? >> Yeah, it's not within 100 feet in my in my opinion. >> All right. Um George, I've got a question for you >> that that may be important and I I I looked through your um extensive
contract here that you provided with the RDA. So, thank you for that. But I'm trying to figure out is this a um a closed filtration system? >> It is. It'll be a closed cartridge. It won't be a It won't be a DE system um where if
you had to backwash and DE material which is dietmacious earth will be leaving. So it will be an enclosed um cartridge system. So there will be any waste products going onto any any area. >> All right. And and that's usually what we're interested with. Correct. Cool. We
just don't want the chlorine or broine whatever discharged into the >> I mean it does need a sanitation system. It'll be a salt system. So, it will not be a chlorination system. Um, but a salt will um which when it breaks down, it will be obviously a chlorination system, but there won't be any waste product
going onto the property at all. >> All right. Good news. Questions from commissioners? >> If anybody wants to take a sitewalk, we could. I'm I'm comfortable relying upon Steve and and and granted that the the
plan that we have with the uh RDA is too old. Uh I think with Steve's observations on site uh we can rely upon the fact that his conclusion is that it's more than 100 ft which would lead to a negative uh determination of applicability.
Um, and my only concern was the discharge was, you know, chlorinated water or, you know, somehow, >> I'll use the word contaminated or contaminated VC wetlands. But since that's not an issue, um, I'm comfortable with a negative determination. Um, we we
do have um a a standard condition even for negative determinations, and that is uh that the contractor cannot park or refuel. um any equipment uh that is motorized
equipment, particularly hydraulic equipment uh within our jurisdiction overnight. >> I don't think that's going to be a problem for you. >> That would not be a problem at all. Yep. >> All right, >> Mr. Mr. Chairman, on that note, I would
move for a negative uh determination of applicability >> uh with the standard conditions that no u motorized equipment, hydraulic equipment and hydraulic equipment be u stored overnight or refueled within our jurisdiction. Correct.
>> And that is the correct note. >> All right. Second to that motion. >> Second. >> All right. Thanks. You know something I I moved too quickly. Are there any abutters or members of the public that have a comment or a question? Hearing none. And seeing none, uh, we
have a motion. It's been seconded. Is there any discussion among commission members? >> Hearing none. Seeing no hands raised, I'll go across the top of the screen. Charlie, how do you vote? >> Yes. >> Uh, Arthur Doyle, >> yes. >> Wendy,
>> yes. >> Ingred, >> yes. >> Tom, >> yes. >> And I John Kieran, yes. as well. George, thank you very much. I appreciate it. >> Thank you guys. Appreciate all your time. >> All right. Thanks. >> Thank you, George. >> Thank you. >> Next on the agenda is Certificate of
Compliance, 405 Blue Hill Avenue. Do we have our presenter? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Great. Nice. >> Hello. How are you? >> Hey, good evening. Thanks. >> Good evening. Um, okay. So, this is for 405 Blue Hill Avenue. Um we came to the
commissioner in May to request by the order of condition we have completed all the work. So the work was to um basically we had an addition to the house. Um there were no change from the previous plan in terms of um
the the original footage of the house and then we added a patio which I I came about I think two months ago for you know within the 25 buffer zone of the wetland and um also the rain garden as well uh which was one of the requirements for um
rain mitigation. So those are all completed and I have attached the um the notes from the the engineer about um you know what has been completed um and some pictures as well. So I could
um I could share that with you guys if you want to see that. >> Um you you did if if you could screen share it would be great. We've actually got it in our packet and uh we thank you very much for providing the photos and and that as well.
I um I don't know if there's any member of the public that would like to see it. If you could screen share because I like the the rain garden in the driveway. I I think that's appropriate. I don't know. And Wendy, I I I don't mean to pick on you, but I know you like rain gardens.
>> You know, I love rain gardens. >> You should be able to share it now. >> Okay. >> Great. >> All right. So, um, can you guys can you can you see my screen now? >> Yes. >> Yes. Not the pictures, but the screen.
Yes. >> Can you see the the notes from the engineer right now? That's what I have on my screen. >> Yes. >> Yes. Correct. >> Okay. And and I actually have a question of that because now I'm reading off the screen rather than uh what I have in my
hand, but um it says um the applicant applicant will be requesting a certificate of compliance upon two successful full growing seasons or provide um uh rate planting as necessary. uh the he is correct um that
you have to wait the two uh growing seasons in order to establish a 75% survival rate. So we typically do not issue the certificate of compliance until such time as two growing seasons have passed. Having said that, uh, some
people come in and say, well, you know, sometimes you're selling the house. Um, so we can sometimes issue a partial certificate of compliance and just sort of carve out the planting plan. Do you have any time requirements to get a at
least a partial certificate? >> Yeah. So, that is my goal for today to get a partial because we are selling the house and we know that you know. >> Oh, you are? >> Oh, that's so bad. Um but then there are other works too, right? Not just the rain garden. So we have um the fact that
you know we got to get the Berlin permit that to get all the other stuff in terms of the renovation itself. I think um because it's close to the wetland. So that's what we're hoping to get at least a partial um certificate of compliance and and the um understanding that you
know the new owners would have to I don't know how that works like to come back after 2 years make sure that you know the the rain garden is still um the vegetation is still you know by >> yes >> yeah that's exactly how it h happens and
this wouldn't be the first time u that would happen so it's it's sort of custom in practice, I guess you'd say. >> Okay. >> Um, commission members, any questions? >> I I have a procedural question. Um, I
could you please explain for for my benefit as well as other people who um might not be as informed. Um how how how do we ensure we as a commission ensure that that the new owners um
beyond the the 2-year um growing season when they come back before us? How do we ensure that subsequent owners um maintain the the rain garden as a a
storm water um mediation? And and like I'm wondering if is it is there some language that goes into the houses's deed at that point or how does that work?
Well, the order of conditions is filed in the registry of deeds. >> Um, and if there's something outstanding like a certificate of compliance, most convincing attorneys and most banks, that is lenders on a mortgage, uh, require that there be some kind of
relief from the order of conditions. That is a certificate of compliance. Um, it happens also with enforcement orders because those are recorded as well. So lenders would require that an enforcement order be um vacated or you
know discharged so to speak. >> Most of the lenders that I'm familiar with will accept a partial certificate of compliance uh so that that remaining component is still on the the uh recorded deed. It stays there in the
registry of deeds uh until such time as a a full certificate of compliance. So, it would still be there. I think you asked a different question. You asked kind of an O andM plan kind of question. Um, and I I don't think I'm doing this
from memory. Uh, but I don't think that we have maybe I can maybe I can do it not from memory. Um, no, that's not it's not this one. I don't have the order conditions in my hand, but I don't think we included an O
andM plan that goes into the future. Sometimes, Wendy, we do like for a development. I'll give you an example. Um, Wentworth Farm Road, >> that detention basin at the culvert at the end of Wentworth Farm Road that does have an OM on&m plan that is that runs
with the land. it stays there and that went from the developer to the homeowners association. My memory on this order of conditions is that we did not make an O andM plan. I I could be wrong, but I think we allow we
approved the rain garden at the revision that um Elyn just mentioned when she was last before us. Philip, I don't know if you've got that handy. I don't I don't think we included >> I don't have it handy unfortunately.
Okay. Well, check everybody check their memory. Mine is that we did not require an ongoing on andm, but we could have. I don't think we did. >> I have a copy of >> the one that I found. I don't know where do I look for that specifically. I mean, I have a paper version of that. The one
from May. >> I think um it would have to be in a special condition which would be at the end. It's probably we have probably 38 39 40 regular conditions that are just part of
a form and then you'll see special conditions that'll be numbered 40 41 42 something like that. So your order of conditions was revised >> and we approved the rain garden so it would be there if at all.
I recall that we approved the new plan that showed the but I don't I don't recall whether or not there was an on andm plan to accompany that. >> I don't see anything about that at all. I mean I'm looking at 42 is just
overnight storage. Um yeah, >> you're in the right place. That would be a special condition. >> Yeah. >> So I don't know if that answers your question, Wendy. I think the only hold on subsequent owner would be until such
time as we issue the order of condition at the uh certificate of compliance. Now I suppose at that time we could make a condition of the um certificate of compliance that they continue uh with
the maintenance of the rain garden. that that may give us an avenue to uh correct a a previous deficiency and I'm acknowledging that we should have had an O andM plan to go along with the rain garden. >> Yeah. Well, can can we add something
now? Um my concern is that >> um >> few years from now we we won't perhaps won't remember. We'll have a different board at that time. >> Yeah. And and sometimes people don't come back until they sell or want to
refinance. It just kind of sits say the registry of deeds. >> Exactly. >> I I would just like to have some assurance that two plus years hypothetically, you know, let's say 5 years down the road that that this beautiful rain garden hasn't
been paved over and is now, you know, a widened driveway, for example. >> No, no, no. I well if if it was paved over then I I think that they'd have to come back before us. Although I know this location is on the opposite side of
the house from the wetlands. Um I don't know. I'm hesitating because um sure we could do it and say it and make a condition of the partial certificate of compliance uh which essentially relates to the
um to the building itself and the footprint of the of the house. Um we could do it. I'm I'm just I I don't want to go outside of our jurisdictional authority. essentially we'd be changing
a previous order of conditions. Um, which we could try to um, Elyn, I mean, I don't think it'll make a difference to you. I suppose it could make a difference to a buyer. Um, you know, we're kind of adding a condition to the
original order of conditions. I'm I'm not sure that's fair, if that's the right word, Wendy. Um I don't know any anybody else have any thoughts on that? >> What is the condition they
>> I think Wendy if somebody going to pave it over then then they'd have to come back before us. I think it's I'm sure it's within 100 ft. >> Yes. That can that would be the proper procedure but >> it is definitely within the 100 ft
because the the wetland is behind behind the house. Um the back of the house. So um the ringard is well over 100 ft from the wetland. >> Yeah. No. Yeah, we you're right. We can
we can see that on on your map. So I I think that you can take some solace that if there was going to be an alteration of the rain garden, that would trigger our jurisdiction. My concern is that the new owners may
not be aware of uh the new owners may or may not be aware of of their proximity to the wetlands and our jurisdiction of them. >> I think that is something that we need to add as part of our sale agreement like you know because we have to uh
inform them about the wetland. Um, and I think like uh John mentioned that also as part maybe the lender if they have a lender that that's also part of the requirements. I would assume >> the lender will definitely know it because when they run the deed, they'll
see this order of conditions and they want to see the cert at least a partial certificate of compliance on that. Um, but I I don't want to do anything that's sort of on the edge of our authority that would, you know, mess up your sale.
I don't think that would be appropriate. Um, >> but Wendy, I mean, I think that applies to every homeowner. Sometimes we don't know when something's 100 ft away. I propose about our last uh, you know,
137 Highland Street. Um, we had a 2011 plot plan that showed it and Steve went out and looked at it and said, "Nope, you're more and uh prior litigation with them. Um but I I think there are many homeowners,
in fact probably most homeowners that uh couldn't tell you where the wetland line is, if if there is one at all on their property. >> Right. Um, so >> John, is it isn't the point here, this is Charlie, John, isn't the point here that
>> um, anybody else have any thoughts on >> Well, I I'm just I'm a little confused. Um, we're we're not It sounds like we're not 100% certain whether or not there is an O and M plan. >> I I don't believe there is. I I'm not aware of an O and M plan for the rain
garden. >> Okay. And that was an oversight on our part. >> Yes. Oh, yes, Wendy. That I acknowledge I thought I acknowledged that right off the bat. That's >> I'm just making sure I understand. Yes. >> Yeah. It's it's our deficiency, not not
the homeowners. That's why I don't want to visit any problems on the home order that you know is attributable to us. >> Right. We they said rain got we said that's a great idea go ahead and do it. We approved the plan but I have no
memory that we ever said and by the way you have to have an O andM plan to maintain that rain garden into the future and by but that's completely different than paving it over. That would be an alteration within our jurisdiction.
That That's a different, >> right? Well, I was using that as a hypothetical, but but I mean, maintaining a a rain garden is it it does require some special care and and not everybody loves plants as much as we do,
you know. So, it it would have to be something conveyed to to new owners. and and I just want to to um put whatever procedure into place to ensure that that
that does happen and that if it doesn't happen that we have some recourse. >> Well, John, I think it's char John. It's Charlie. I got a question. the fact that we have a design that we're going to release a a partial on.
Isn't the homeowner, either this homeowner or the future homeowner, required to maintain what we approve um in the partial? >> Uh yes. >> Okay. So if if
>> it's a general principle, but I know an M plan will say that you have to go there every six months or 12 months and you know clean out the you know set >> that's the basis of the question is who is going to monitor the on andm plan and typically in these situations don't we
if we sometimes we a lot of times we don't find out or do a complete release until someone goes and sells the house. >> Right. So, this is this is this this is no different than than than a typical um
order that we would that we would um grant. Uh it's we we may not know that there's an alteration to a rain garden until a future owner uh comes along or if the
the home buyer that that that that's coming along now um meets their obligation. Sometimes they do, a lot of times they don't by applying for the final certificate. Correct.
Yes. Yeah. Absolutely correct. Yes. >> So, can I ask maybe can I ask something? Um um Elyn, can you blow this up and and move it a little bit because there are a lot of uh this may be the wrong slide,
but I'm looking at one that that has a lot of notes at the at the bottom and I just can't read them on my hand copy. Um, >> what are you looking for? The >> Yes, right in there. There may be something in there that talks about rain
garden. No, >> sorry. >> Oh, I saw it. >> You just moved it. It was go back to where you were >> there. It says rain garden maintenance. Inspect and remove trash monthly minimum of two times per year and as needed.
Mulch annually. >> Rake and remove dead vegetation annually. All right, >> we have the answer. >> Is it? >> We got the That was easy. Good. Thanks. Right in front of us. >> That's good. That's great. >> It is good. And we're not creating the certificate of compliance on this uh
when the And I to be honest when my memory is that we didn't have an on andm plan. It's I don't think we talked about it, but here it is on the uh on the presentation of the plan, which is great. >> Yay, Tom Ryder. Thank you.
>> Yes. >> Yes. All right. >> Thank you. That's easy. >> All right. So, that that is our that's our hook into the future. Wendy, right there. >> Wonderful. >> Ein. Sorry for all that distraction. >> Evelyn, please thank your engineer.
>> Yes, >> I will. Thank you. So, um what do I need to do in terms of getting this like how how does this work in terms of getting a Well, we have to see if there are any
more questions or comments from commission members or of others or members of the public. >> Uh and then we'll be in a position to entertain a motion to issue the partial certific uh certification of compliance.
Um and the partial would be that uh as your engineer has said that uh the project was completed in substantial compliance with the plans that were approved uh with the exception of the landscape component of it uh which
requires a two year a two growing season two full growing season uh time frame to demonstrate a 75% survival rate. So that would that portion uh which would include the what we can call the on and m plan for the rain garden would go to
the new owners just by operation of you know the regular custom and practice it's sitting right there for them. So they will have that um all this stuff is you know recorded uh the registry of deeds. So that that's the process.
>> Any questions commissioners? I I don't see any. I don't hear any. So, is there a motion to issue a partial uh certificate of compliance uh that the project was completed in substantial compliance with the approved plans with the exception that the uh landscape
component of it which includes the rain garden um uh must uh await two full growing seasons in order for the uh homeowner to demonstrate 75% survival rate. Uh, at which time we would then
entertain um a a full certificate of compliance. >> I'd like to make that motion, John. >> All right. Perfect. Thanks. I think we have the conditions uh stated in there. Is there a second for Wendy's motion?
>> Second. Thanks, Charlie. Any discussion? Uh, hearing none, we'll take a voice vote. Um, Elyn, can you take that uh stop your screen screen share so I can see the people because I uh I don't want to miss some a vote. Ah, there you go.
Perfect. Thank you. Uh, reading across the top, Charlie, how do you vote? >> Yes. >> Arthur Doyle, how do you vote? >> Yes. >> Wendy Garpo, >> yes. >> Tom Palmer, >> yes. >> Ingred Batty, >> yes. >> And I, John Ken, vote yes as well. So,
Elyn, you're all set. um talk to Philillip and he will provide you with this partial uh certificate of compliance and uh thanks to you and to your engineer as well. >> Thank you very much. Have a good night everyone. >> Thank you. It's been a pleasure working
with you. >> Yeah. Thanks. Uh next uh is number three on the agenda and that's order of conditions at 1205 Brushville Road and uh who was presenting?
>> I saw Vahi. >> Good evening. >> Perfect. Perfect. >> Hi Steve and good evening everyone uh members of the board and Mr. Chairman. Um my name is Vah Ohanesian. I'm the trustee of the trust that owns
the property here and the application is for simply extending the uh deadline uh expiration date for this particular not uh order of conditions. And is this one just to get us oriented? Is this um
Avenue A? Is that where we are at 1205 Brush Hill? >> This No, I don't recognize that uh Avenue A. This is right on Hemmonway, which is a private way >> the other way. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Avenue A and Hemway are parallel.
>> Oh, I see. Okay. >> So, these are the first two uh on Hemmonway to the left. >> That's correct. >> Got it. >> This is the first one, lot D. The next one would be lot C. >> And you have the wildlife cora between the two of them. >> That's correct. >> All right. Perfect. And I know that the
the whole project was delayed for quite a while. It wasn't on us actually. I think it was me but delayed on uh you know their review for quite a while. Um so I I know there was some frustration in getting that moving along. So are you
looking for an extension for one, two or three years? >> Three. >> Three years. And um um let me am I correct that you are your current order of conditions is good through January 10th or something like
that of 2026. Right. Perfect. >> Correct. >> So they appropriately came within the time frame prior to the expiration and Vahi. Sometimes that's a problem because people wait until after it and D has warned us we're not supposed to extend
after the expiration but there in a timely fashion. So we thank you for that. >> Sure. >> Questions, comments from commissioners? We're all familiar with the property having been there several times. Any questions?
All right. >> All right. Is there a motion then to >> Yes, sir. >> Um, I'm okay with it with an extension. >> Okay. All right. Do Do you care if it's one, two, or three years?
>> Uh, me? No, not at all. I >> Neither. >> If it's a little bit longer, they they can finish it up. >> All right. Any other comments, questions? Is there a motion to issue the extension at 1205 Brush Hill Road of the order
conditions for a period of 3 years? >> So move. >> Thank you, Arthur. Is there a second to that? >> I'll second that. >> Thanks, Tom. Any discussion among commission members? Oh, and I should have asked beforehand members of the public or about us hearing none. Um, any
discussion among commission members? Hearing none. Across the top here, Charlie, how do you vote? >> Yes. >> Arthur Doyle, how do you vote? Yes. >> Wendy, how do you vote? >> Yes. >> Tom, >> yes. >> Ingred,
>> yes. >> And I, John Kieran, and vote yes as well. Bah, thank you very much for your patience with us. >> Thank you very much. I appreciate it. I do have one uh logistical question that has come up. Um the we have a building permit in process for this property and
there's the online portal where signoffs happen. I understood from Steve that he doesn't have access to the portal. I simply need to understand who who and how this sign off happens uh on the building permit process. Um it is an online system but I'm just trying to get
some guidance on who I should which direction I should pursue given that >> that that's a perfect question. Uh and it's timely as well. Uh I talked to Nick Milano uh within the last maybe three
weeks. uh about trying to uh merge this uh what's it called? Permit eyes that the building permit. Yes, >> that's that's the uh the application that the town uses and the DPW uh permit process can be found there. We're we're trying to get a program to add a module
so that we can link the conservation issues to the building department issues. Um but that's that's still in process. However, the key to the to that uh failure to merge to date is Phil Crystal because uh he works in the same
place as the uh in the DPW and has good connections to um the building department. So any questions you have and trying to get our sign off on this extension to the building department is through Phillip. >> Okay.
>> Right. So, if you stay in touch with him, he'll tell you who to call, who to talk to. And if you go to see him, he'll probably just point to his right and say, "Go talk to I don't know, is it Mike White? I'm not sure who who you talk to." Actually,
>> Mike White has been waiting for the >> Mike White has been messaging me waiting for the sign off from conservation. So, >> we have there's a um thing on the building permit that we can sign up. I can do it if you give me permission. If who the commission does,
>> right? The commission has to sign off on the permit and I can do. >> All right. Yeah, we just voted for it. So, >> right. So, I can do it. I can take care of it tomorrow. >> Perfect. That's all I needed to know. Thank you very much. >> If that's all right with you, John. >> Yes, it is. Absolutely. >> Okay. Yes,
>> I'll take care of it tomorrow. Bah. >> Thanks very much. >> Okay. Great. Thanks all. >> Have a great evening. Thank you. >> You too. Thanks. Next is number four, alterations to wetlands at 71 Armor Road in Milton. Do we have >> Brown is on the call.
>> Oh, great. Thanks, Mr. Brown. Thanks very much for joining us. And I know Steve Iv sent a letter to you asking you inviting you to come in and thank you for coming. >> Yes. >> Can you help us and te to tell tell us
what happened? I don't know, but I I heard that uh somebody presumably you or somebody on your behalf had cut down some mature trees in the wetlands, but that's literally all I know. >> Okay. Um I just cut the trees that were on my property. I did have it surveyed
in 2022, which I submitted to Commissioner White. Um so I was just following the ribbons that were in the back there. Um, I do understand that there is wetlands, but the way that I was visualizing it was that river that was a little bit further back that you
can clearly see is standing water. Um, I do have standing water periodically uh in certain areas. Um, but so that's what actually I was doing. >> Okay. Well,
Hello. >> Yeah. >> Let's give him a minute. He appears to be frozen. >> Okay, I can hear I can hear now. Can everyone hear me? >> Yes, >> we we can hear you, but um but Chairman
Kieran was is having some trouble with his computer. if you wouldn't mind holding. >> Oh, okay. Sure. >> Seems to have stopped it dead. >> Uhoh. >> This happens to me, too. and otherwise I'll go I'll go back out
and call. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Good. Uh Steve, can you see if John is in the waiting room, please? He's having trouble getting back. >> No, he's not. >> John, are you still there? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Okay. You are not in the waiting room
according to Steve. >> Try something else. I I'll back out and I'll call in. Okay. Bye. You probably heard John say that he'll call in.
>> Yes. Steve, we have a call in user one on my screen. Might you know who that is by chance? >> Uh, no I do not. Let me um It says mute. Let me ask to unmute.
Oh, no. I can't even do that. I can't do that. Here we go. No, that that was Roy Chambers. No. >> All that must be must be wood.
It's live now. I'm sorry. I was Who was that? >> That is Gina Brown, 71 Amore Road. >> Okay, good. >> Yeah, I'm I'm not sure that John is
called in effectively or successfully at all. Very frustrating for him. That's what happens when you live in the woods. >> I'm trying to get in by phone. Something
my computer's not. I I don't know what internet is shut down. >> Okay. So, >> asking I you should be I called in. I dialed in, but it says uh somebody has to let me in. I was go back to Steve and ask him. >> Okay, Steve's looking right now for you,
John. >> Yes. And how's that? I don't I don't Oh, here we go. 1617 asked to unmute. >> 1706 should say.
>> Yeah. 706. Yes. Sorry. Okay, I've got to switch phones. >> Okay, I'll shut down this one. >> Hey, >> there you are. >> All right. Am I back in? >> Yeah. >> Yes.
>> All right. Thanks. I I I do apologize for that. I have no explanation for it. Not none of my internet connections are working and I don't know why because I use a MiFi hotspot.
It says it's working. Anyway, I apologize. So, uh, what did you do? My essence. >> Oh, we're waiting for you, John. >> Oh. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. Um,
all right. So, My concern is I got lost there because um Miss Brown, I think you suggested that you would talk to I thought you said Commissioner White and I can only think that that >> Go ahead.
>> No, I sent in uh the uh survey of the land to Commissioner White. That was done in 2022. >> But but who is Commissioner White? >> Oh, I'm sorry. Uh um to the commissioner
basically. Commissioner of the building commissioner >> of Milton. I thought like I called in and they gave me his his uh email address. Let me just verify again.
Let's see here. >> That would be Michael White most likely. >> Yes. >> Yeah, he's he's pretty new since >> probably Walter. Walter. >> Yes. Walter White.
>> Okay. >> So, he he's in the building department, right? >> Right. He's a building inspector and has been for a long time. >> So, so yeah, M White, that's all I was.
And his email address whitema.gov. >> That's Michael. >> Okay. And Michael White is the new building commissioner. He took over for Joe Pondac. >> Okay. Right. Right.
>> Well, in any event, and I know you did a survey, but the wetlands regulations uh kind of ignore property lines. >> Um Okay. You can't take down >> trees in the wetlands without a
conservation commission permit. whether they're on your property or somebody else's property. Um, and yeah, I know you own the land. >> U, but you still have to have a permit even on your own land to alter the wetlands. >> And I and I don't know much about this.
Are these, you know, big trees, mature trees? >> Um, and I I'm not sure why you took them down. >> Well, I was taking them down just to clear out my area of my land. So that's
what I was trying to do to get more sun. Um because there the foundation of my house and also around like the ground is sinking. So I've had to spend a large amount of money to bring back the land up because it's like literally sinking
and the foundation of my house is 100% soaked inside the garage inside the house. Um, and I had an outside contractor do a surveillance of the entire house and land. Um, so I was
trying to get more sun onto the property because it's so soaked. >> Okay. But trees often help absorb water rather than create more water. Um,
>> I don't know what's going on as to that. I I understand your logic behind that statement, but for the period of time that I've been here and which is pretty much all my life, there's been pretty much a large amount of water both inside
and outside of the house. Like the foundation is 100% soaked when they did the moisture reading of the floor inside the garage, inside the house. So that's I again like I said I just I
have no excuses other than pretty much cutting them on my property to try to create more sun to dry out the outskirts of the property. >> Understood. >> And I didn't realize and I did not realize which I apologize that you need
a permit and that type of thing. I I did not know that. >> Understood. Uh we we have a tree replacement um policy and uh that is to replace trees that you take down within the the
wetland jurisdiction. Um and it's based upon the size of the trees. Uh the policy is that you have to replace the sum of the circumferences of the trees as measured at breast site. The trees are gone. So that would be difficult to do. Um but we have an alternative
mechanism that we can you know go to the base which is sometimes a little bit larger than breast height because it's measured sometimes it's called DBH diameter at breast height sometimes it's called TBH circumference at breast height um but you either diameter or
circumference you have to replace that so let's I'll just make something up let's say there were two trees with uh um just for ease of math I'll say you know 10 in in circumference And so that would be 10 and 10 would be 20. So you'd
have to plant um whatever three and a half, you know, 6-in trees or three plus uh 6-in trees to to make the the same circumference. So you took down 20 in and essentially you're replacing 20 in.
I know 18 doesn't equal 20. I I got the math, but um that's the policy. You have to replace the number of inches taken down. can you can you can uh plant them anywhere you want on your property. >> Um they should be native species, but
you know, most people say, "Oh, that's a good idea." Um and if you don't have room to plant that number of whatever the number is, that number of trees, um then you can actually contribute to we call it a it's kind of a virtual
inventory of trees uh to the town. Um, and they are they're the value of those trees are $700 each and they run about a three-inch caliper. The caliper is diameter uh trees. >> Okay. >> Um so that if you don't have room to
plant I mean we like trees so if you can plant them it's it's great. Um, if you if you don't have enough room to plant whatever the number of trees is, you can plant them elsewhere in the town or you can pay the conservation commission at the town actually. Um, $700 per tree.
>> And the trees are measured if you were to buy them that they'd be like a 3-in caliber uh tree. >> Okay. >> Um, but I I I have no idea about the size of the trees that have been cut down. So, and Steve, can you help out or
Oh, Miss Brown, you you can tell me. I don't know. How big are the trees? Where are the trees? >> I mean, uh, yeah, they're huge. >> I've only seen them from next door, John. >> You What's that? >> I I I will repeat. I I've only seen um
trees cut from the next door. I wasn't on the property, the subject property. >> Okay. All right, Miss Brown, would you allow Steve Ibis to enter your property to uh take a look? >> Sure. Yes.
>> All right, Steve, can you can you make arrangements with Miss Brown to go and take a look and see what we're talking about in terms of replacement? >> Yes, if she would call into um Phillip and and give her late her phone number, that would be useful.
>> All right. Um, >> so Paul Phillip, who who do I call >> Philip right there? Philip, can you >> you called me before and I got your um email. So >> yeah, >> you can call me at my office. I can give
you the number >> and 6178984974 and I will take your number and Steve contact you. Sure. >> Okay. Excellent. So, can I make uh can I say that I would
like to donate uh the trees throughout Milton and pay once he comes and just so we can total up how many trees and then I just pay for them. >> Yes. >> Because I'm highly alert to trees.
That's another thing. >> Okay. All right. Hey, Steve, while we're talking, can you see if you can let me back in? I I I somehow recovered I think I've recovered my >> uh Yes, you're in the waiting room now. Hang on.
>> Let's try that. >> Yeah. >> Thanks, Doc. Sorry for that uh long absence. Um >> yeah, don't worry. >> Oh no. Am I frozen again?
>> No, we got you. >> Oh, good. >> All right. Thanks. Um so commissioners, any questions, comments um that you'd like to make? >> Anything?
Um I I'm curious, Gina. Um yeah, you were saying that that you're dealing with some um water issues on your property and and I'm wondering if if there's been some changes to the hydrarology in the area
that might be be affecting your property that >> I don't know. That's a very good Yeah, that's a very good question. I don't know. Um, I have pretty much I have molds. This is the second time the mold has come back. Um, I literally
remediated the entire house in 2022 because I found black mold crawling up the foundation wall in the basement. Remediated the house, my clothing, everything. Um, the all what is it? all
walls, everything up on the first floor, second floor, and now it's back again. So, at this point, the suggestion of the outside contractor is demolish the entire house or either remediate it
again for close to 150 150,000. So my thing is which I will be coming back to I guess the town to ask if I can demolish the entire house. Um because
the readings on the floor inside the garage and and inside the foundation of the house is 100% soaked. Um so the mold issue is back again. Black mold as well. And I'm sick because of it. So I I can't
live in a house that for the second time that has mold. I I mean I can't afford it. >> No. >> So the next thing is to either demolish the house um which seems to be the only way to get rid of uh this situation.
So, why I was cutting the trees was to create more sun onto the house because if you walk the property, you're going to see how much how the ground is completely just thinking in and I don't know what's going on, which I know uh
from the outside contractor, he said the northern side of my house gets no sun at all, and that's the side that the black mold has crawled up the foundation on the inside of the house. So that's why I was cutting the trees to
create more sun. But um when Mr. Ivvis does walk the ground, I'm going to show him how much which I've spent so close to about $10,000 of putting sand and dirt trying to bring the found um bring the ground
up on um that's by the driveway and also in the front of the house. It's sinking as well. So I don't know what's going on. I I know my house is more in the ground compared to all the other houses surrounding me. I'm the only ranch style
in the ground house. Everybody else is up. So, I don't know if this wetlands, this used to be a swamp area or something. I don't know before this was built. Um, so I'm just trying to do as
much as I can to I guess save the house and but there's some type of water coming up from the ground. Um, basically of the foundation of the house.
>> Dana, how long have you lived there? >> Um, all my life. Um, only one year in Madapan. So basically all my life I've lived here. I'm 48 years old. and I can't breathe in the house right now. So, um there's endotoxins. I've
done uh I've hired a also a uh air quality testing. I have all documentation on that along with the outside contractor that came from New York to do outside and inside surveillance and
um found that the basically the foundation is completely soaked. I have all documentation and everything. >> Can I make a remark about the area? >> Uh sure. My name is Tom Palmer. and
commissioner and um >> yes, >> you live on Brush Hill. Uh >> no, I live on a more road. It's adjacent to Brush Hill. >> Yeah, I'm I'm talking about the hill itself rather than the road. >> Oh, okay. Sorry.
>> The hill is what's called in uh geology a drumland. A drumland is a dune that's made by ice. That sounds odd, but what creates a drumland is when the glaciers came over
New England, there were places where they hit little irregularities in the ground. And when they did that, they started to build up layer after layer of highly compacted material over that irregularity
until you have a hill that's sort of shaped like a loaf of bread or they call them whale back hills. They're flat on top but they have steep sides and they're usually oriented northwest, souththeast. There are other drumlins in
town. Milton Hill is a Drumland. They're all over Brookline, but what builders know about Drumlands is they don't perk at all. In other words, they can't absorb any water, it's very hard to put
a septic system on a Drumland, the because the soils were so powerfully compacted by the weight of the ice, even on slopes, they're not absorbent. So what happens when you put
a building foundation into this very tight soil is that when it rains the rain does sunk sink into the top layer but they call it a perched layer. It can't penetrate
further into the ground. So the few top inches of soil just can't shed water very easily. And if you put a hole, a foundation for a house in that kind of
soil, you really have to have a way to lead the water away or the water will just move into the >> area between the house and the soil and sit there. And uh that that may be why
your neighbors you have see more visible foundations because the builders were aware of this perched water table and want to get the ground floors up above it. And uh I'm looking at a contour map of your lot.
And if I could share my screen, is that possible for me to do I could show you something that might be of interest to you? Um, >> okay. >> I don't know how to do that. Steve, what what do I >> Can you help him?
>> Uh, yes. Um, attempt it with the little green button down below. >> All right, I'm going to hit that. It says share screen. Okay, now I'll hit the application I want. Now I'm hitting share. >> Can anyone see it?
>> Yeah, >> we can. But Tom, Gina is calling. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Gina's on the phone. But you might be able to narrate it for her. >> All right. Well, if I'm looking at 71 Amar, which is your lot, right? >> Yes.
>> Yes. And I see by the road where the house is, it's marked as like a gray oblong on this town map. And I see going from if you're looking at your house from the road, if you were to look over to the left of the house, the contour
lines all come together, which means that somebody put fill there. >> Yeah. If you're looking at your house from the road, the lawn off to the left is a fill platform and then it drops abruptly as you go deeper into the lot.
>> Right? But at any rate, if you I am sorry you can't see this, but if you were to go to the far corner of your lot, >> it's cross-hatched in green on the state map because the people who look at aerial photos have said that's a
wetland. And if you look at the contours in that area, you see that this area which you share with 71 85 then 68 Hollingsworth 100 Hollingsworth 281 Blue Hill A all these lots share in this
green area in back that the state masses a wetland. And what's funny about it if you look at the contours is it's kind of flat. So, this is a flat spot on the slope of a hill. And that flatness is
especially likely to retain water because we know it's soil that doesn't absorb water. And here, there's no gradient for to run off on. So, that flat place behind your lot and behind all your neighbors lot is always going
to be a sponge. There's always going to be water there. And that's makes it a wetland. And the fact that your house is connected to that wet spot by this same soil that won't absorb any water,
it's just a a physical um character of your soil that builders need to deal with. And the way you deal with it is you find a way to lead the water away from the foundation. And that's what needs to happen on your lot.
Although I'm not a builder, but from your disruption of of your your horrible problems, I mean, it's just awful what you have to put up with, you need a way to lead the water away from your foundation. And I think that >> and I totally agree with you.
>> Yes. And I totally agree with you. That's why I plan on >> That's why I plan on demolishing this and then also waterproofing the foundation and bringing the house up like the rest of the houses that are to
the left and right of me. So, that is in the works. >> Um, I'm talking to a builder now. Um, and we're drawing up plans which again we'll have to go through. I know pulling a permit and going through the town. So that's why I'm sort of prefacing this
situation to you right now. Um, so sort of giving you the heads up of what is in the works because I I just I can't live like this. I I can't breathe. The mold, black mold is the most lethal. Um, and I've already had it once. Uh, and it's
already back again. So I just >> I definitely get it. I get it that your house is just not livable because of the issues with water. And uh >> there you go. >> One thing that might help deal with it
when you get work done is they will put in drains and uh what they will do is they will find paths for the water to move away from the house by putting gravel in excavated trenches and so
forth. That's how it's done. And it does sound like in your particular house that wasn't done the first time around and the water just can't get away from it. Now, I'm not an expert, but I'm just I do know something about soils and these
Drumland soils just won't absorb water. So, it's just very hard to get water away from the places it doesn't belong. And uh I'm glad you were talking about um getting at the problem at its root
because I think that's what it will take. Um I don't I'm not a build >> I'm not a builder. I don't know how to keep water out of houses, but I do understand something about water and soils. And that is the water that is um
torturing you. >> The water in the upper layers of the soil. And I totally agree with you and my thing is I am going to require the contractor to test the soil before any building happens um such as foundation
and everything. I really want to test the so the soil to see if we can find the root of the problem and bring that to the town and get like you said any other feedback that needs to be done before any building starts because this there's a problem here or either I sell
the house that's the other option >> because your lot does have some grade to it there should be ways to lead the water away from the foundation is my guess >> it does seem to me like it ought to be buildable in a way that makes it
habitable. But um as you say, you'll have to get expert help to make sure it's done that way. >> And it's appreciate your feedback. >> All right. Thank you, Miss Brown. Thank you, Tom. Uh any other questions or
comments? Uh commission members, but anyone else? Um, so at at this stage, I think the the the next step will be for a coordination between Steve Ivis and Miss Brown and uh get out there and take a look at the the size of the trees that
are missing and and uh Steve, if you could come back and report to the commission, we will stay in touch with you, Miss Brown, as to how to remediate this problem. >> Okay. >> Okay. Thank you so much for your time. >> I thank you very much for your courtesy in and coming in tonight. Thank you.
All right, >> have a good night. >> Goodbye. And thank you. Thank you. >> Next uh on the agenda is number five, votes uh schedule of hearings for 2026. Um Philip included in our I don't know
that this needs a vote. Um I don't know, maybe it does. Um we can we can vote for it if you want, but I don't I don't know why you'd vote for it. I don't we've never done it in the past.
>> And no, I I I've never done it. >> Um it's just a schedule. It's subject to change anyway, but we'd have to vote to change it if we vote to set it. So why don't we just accept this as a unless anybody has any comments. I don't think a vote is um necessary. I actually don't
think it's appropriate, but um we can set this as a schedule uh and try to adhere to it. Sometimes we have to change. for instance, um I have no idea when the town meeting is um in May and June. It it could conflict with that. So, we' we'd have to move it anyway if
there's a town meeting or if in April there's a April 14th. I have no idea what day the town is voting in April. Um so, I I I just suggest that we we look at this um and there's a consensus that
okay, this is our schedule. I think we're good to go. Anybody else have any different thoughts? >> I just wanted to check with uh Bill on February 9. So that was a Monday. Was that to avoid something on the Tuesday the 10th where
we usually sit? >> Hypo my fault. Sorry. >> Okay. So it is the 10th. >> Sorry. >> No problem. We all do it. >> The second Tuesday of the month then. >> Yes. >> Great.
Thank you. >> All right. Good. So, why don't we just leave this as >> Okay. Thanks. And we can plug this into our calendars and uh I don't think any uh further discussion is warranted
unless anybody else does. Okay, we're good to go. Let's go on to next is um vote to approve meeting minutes. Um, there's a lot of material there and I actually have a number of revisions. I don't know if
anybody else does. Um, it it's it's going to be a little time consuming which is which is okay. I don't mind doing it. Um, but why don't we get started and see how fast we can get get through these. All right. I I started at the end. >> I'll be right back.
Um so I I had uh one question Steve for you. Um, this is Town of Milton Conservation Commission public meeting minutes of 8 July 25, July 8th. And I had a question on
um, page three. Um I I don't know what's on page three because it goes 1 through 15 meeting with a journ and then on the same page I've got a one and two
that appear to be from a different day. I don't that may be just an artifact of printing. I I don't know what it means but I don't think it belongs >> I notic that too. I will look at it, John, and get back to you.
>> All right. So, why don't we just Well, if you look at, you know, number one, it's talking about um a a different it says the item was continued to the 8 July 25 meeting. So, I'm assuming that it was from the June meeting.
>> Sure. >> Um All right. So, maybe we could just go through them quickly like this. Um uh and then revise some I don't know I can do I can do it privately but some
of this I I'd like to when I say privately I don't mean secretly. I just mean I don't want to take everybody's time on this but if you go to the next one I do have some questions that everybody can weigh in on 12 August 25 August 12th. Um on question number one
um I get so many notes here. It refers to at the bottom of the page. Is that page one? I think he's frozen.
>> Oh, no. Sure is. >> John, you're frozen. >> Yeah, >> it's cold, but not that cold. It's just like my connection. >> By the way, Stepha, if you go to page two of three on the meetings of 8th
July, if you go down to the bottom number again, >> yeah. >> Okay. >> Page two of three. >> Yeah. Go down to the bottom of number 13. It says 80 moved
and a unanimous individual vos vo was held. That's a typo. >> Okay. Typo. Yeah. >> Yeah. It should be of course voic. >> Thank you. >> Let me try for just a minute. Uh Steve
Jud's calling in in case he needs some help at your end. >> Sure. I don't see him on the uh participant screen or the waiting room either yet. Um, my guess is that AI is using a lot of
bandwidth and that's why we're all, you know, having trouble. I did read all these minutes and it took me a while. There are a lot of minutes here. >> Um, but overall they're a very uh high
fidelity I think to what actually happened. >> Thanks. Ah, there we go. He should be in now. Are you there yet? >> Thanks. Yeah, I am. Thanks for letting
me in. I I appreciate it. >> Certainly. >> Um >> I'm gonna charge a fee. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So I And maybe because I I I was just confused by what plus 2A and minus
five means. I I don't know. And I I think there are some other revisions like if you go to page two of that same August 12th, 2025 um on number three, I I don't know what happened. There's a request for
certificate of compliance. Um but it doesn't say what happened. It goes right into number four. So it >> okay >> may and I a lot of the other ones have
um some significant questions. So maybe it makes more sense if I can spend some time with uh Steve and you see if I can you know get the answer to these kinds of questions and it might make it faster if we did some
preliminary revisions and then resubmitted it for the next meeting. I'd be happy to do that. >> We actually >> What's that? >> I'd be happy to do that. Yes. >> All right. Good. I I think that's the most efficient use of our time to do it that way. Um
so if with the if there's a consensus, we can just continue this item to our next meeting. And if there's any press to get this done, we may have a next uh meeting um this month. It'll be very brief and I'll explain that under additional
business. Um, any other thoughts or comments on on this? I mean, does anybody want to go forward tonight and try to resolve it this way? >> No, I think that's a good >> I think it would be more efficient. >> Yeah. >> What's that?
>> I agree, John. Uh, I just had one observation and that is since these meetings are recorded, um, maybe we can have more brevity in the text. Good thought.
>> Because we can always refer back to the recordings and and focus on what the item was, what the salient points were, and what the action recommendation or action taken was. So, it's boom boom boom boom like you used in a business meeting, which this is.
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And then you have the reference to any documents and the reference to the fact that there's a recording for any further exploration or detailed information by parties that want to explore it. That makes it easier for review and for
action like we want to take tonight. But just a thought. >> Yes. I I just a thought. Are you listening, Steve? Steve and I have had the same discussion a few times. >> Uh yes. and just realize that I'm I'm trained as a scientist to get every
single thought down. >> I was trained at by GTE Labs actually. I had a lab book that I had to turn in when I finished the lab book and they're all in a big vault somewhere >> in the sky now
>> waiting waiting to be read. If they're not, it's read in some. Well, no. I had this was regarding um ideas for patents. So, I had I had a few ideas for patents and um you have to refer back to an
original idea and when it happened. Uh it's very interesting process, but I'm still using that same process. >> Yeah, good good try, Arthur. I mean,
>> Steve, the the recording is your vault. >> Yes. >> I'm just I'm just trying to save you as well. >> I understand. >> Yep. Thank you, Bob. >> All right. So, that that's that that we'll we'll work on that. Um that takes
us to number seven, new business. And I've got two issues. and one of them, well maybe both of them uh may require an earlier meeting than uh the January
meeting. I don't think so. But here's what's happened. Um there are and this relates to um orders of condition, one of which we issued, one of which we denied. We denied an order of conditions to the Temposi family um comprehensive
land holdings at 648- 652 Canton Avenue. We denied them uh a permit because they refused to provide uh data that we had requested. The data that we requested had been recommended
that we request by GZA which is our consultant. Um they uh and Phil has always been Phil Cado has always been very courteous and a and a gentleman but he politely declined uh to provide the data that we requested. So we denied it
and off they went to D. D issued a superseding order uh which we the conservation commission town of Milton um appealed um that appeal went forward to a hearing
um and the hearing uh decision. It's a recommended decision, not as it's an actual It's not an actual decision, but it's recommended that the commissioner um uh adopt the recommendation of the administrative law
judge, uh which the commissioner has yet to do. I sent that around to everybody today. It's a 21page decision. Um it's a little bit you have to kind of sit down and set aside some time to read it and to appreciate it. Um but basically the
uh the administrative law judge found in her recommended decision that um the that the town uh appeal be denied and that the DP's superseding order allowing
the project to go forward um be uh affirmed by the commissioner of D. So, uh, it is now in our hands to make a decision, um, as to whether or not we take a further appeal. Now, right now,
it's not a final decision because, as you'll see on the last page of the decision that I sent to you, um, it says that we have 30 days to ask for a reconsideration and or to appeal to the superior court.
But the 30 days has not yet begun because the commissioner has not yet issued a final determination. I expect that the commissioner will um abide by the recommendation of the of the judge and allow the permit to to
issue and go forward the superseding permit. Um the issues that you'll see relate to whether or not we were entitled to ask for additional information. Now, first DP said, "Oh, you guys didn't explain why you wanted
the data." Uh, which is in my mind preposterous >> because they actually quoted the decision uh that I wrote and in the decision it says we need this data in order to evaluate the efficacy of the
proposed um plan, the stormwater discharge plan. Um it it said we need X because of Y, we need A because of B. It's right and they quoted it in the decision. So it's right there in front
of them. So when it got to the appellet level, the judge said, "Well, um you shouldn't have asked for all that information because um much of the project is outside of your 100 ft.
um and it's beyond your jurisdiction. And our position was that well, if it's going to directly and approximately impact the resource areas that we protect, um then we don't have to wait until it happens, you can anticipate
that when you bring in 53,000 cubic yards of fill and raise five acres of land, an average of five feet, that's going to have some impact on where the water goes. So, we need to know where the water goes. That's why we requested
mounding data and we requested soil compaction studies um to figure out what was the conductivity of the soil. And Tom, you were talking about that today. Um so, what the judge said was, well, you
didn't have jurisdiction to ask for three of the four monitoring wells. We asked for all four monitoring wells. One of them was within our jurisdiction, three of them are outside of the jurisdiction. And they said, "Well, you know, that's overly burdensome to the
applicant, and they shouldn't have had to respond to all four requests." and then went on to say, "However, the one request um uh that you asked for and they declined to give you." Yeah, you did have jurisdiction over that, but by asking
for four um you made it too burdensome and and basically waved your right to ask for the one. Now, D did ask for for data. I there are >> Yes. Right. There's a lot of I nicely
referred to it as sophistry today. Um but whatever I mean and there are legal implications to this. So at this stage um I've been working with Kate Connley who is town council for this particular
purpose. Now Kate works for um Murphy Hesle and Tumi which is actually former town council but um when the town decided to change town council and they went to Copelman and Paige um I asked
Nick to to not change uh you know in midstream council because they had already filed our briefs that is Kate Connley and Caris North with whom uh we we were working we are working. Um, and Nick said, "Oh, fine.
You we'll keep it right there." And by the way, the same thing applies to the lower Guile Road because that's the next point that I want to bring up. So, right now, we're trying to work with the select board because it's the select board has to authorize our appeal. So,
they were going to put it on tonight's agenda. Um, but it timing didn't work out partly because of our meeting. Um, and then also we got somewhat of a reprieve because the 30-day time clock on our appeal does not begin until the
commissioner uh enters her appeal, as is her decision rather, and then we have 30 days from that point. So, I'm expecting that next month meeting will be okay to have an executive session to talk about our
appellet rights and the efficacy of an appeal. Um, and that's something that uh that I would invite uh Kate Connley, who was our council, to attend an executive session to discuss the risks and benefits of of going
forward to the superior court. Um, and there's a financial component to it because we have to pay the attorneys to represent us. Uh, so the select board has to weigh in and ultimately it'll be their decision. So we will coordinate through executive session in the conservation commission and then
executive session at the select board. That's point number one. Point number two is a lower guile road. Um that hearing took place in October. And when I say hearing, it's a little bit different than what you see on TV and
what most people experience in the courtroom. Um it's done by um submitted pre-filed testimony. So each witness submits an affidavit of points that he or she would like to to make and then
that person shows up at the hearing for cross-examination. Um and Tom, this is the one that you and I were both on the witness list and neither one of us uh participated as a as a witness on this. >> Yes. But it did go forward in October
and then uh I guess they given a couple of weeks to submit postering briefs which um I just received a copy today of I received a copy of uh the neighborhood group, the D group and the town. So
there are three sets of briefs for that. Now remember this is the case in which we allowed the permit for the artificial turf field on a 4 to3 vote. Um D supported uh our permitting and they issued a
superseding order um also uh also allowing the the field to be installed. I'm I'm chuckling to myself because they they had fewer protections than we did uh which I thought was ironic. Uh but in any event, that's gone
forward to the hearing stage. The briefs were just filed yesterday. uh by all all the parties and uh I don't know how long it will take. I'm going to guess it. It's certainly another month uh before it happens to be the same
judge by the way, the same administrative law judge. Uh who is going to make that decision? So that would that's all kind of up in the air, but it it should be on your radar screen because we'll be asked the same question. you know, do we accept the
ruling by the uh D judge or, you know, do we appeal or or what? So, it just should be on your radar screen. That's a little bit into the future. Uh but 648 652 Canton Avenue is definitely on on
your radar screen and we may have to have an emergency meeting this month. Um but it it it won't be lengthy and it will probably be a meeting that uh opens in public session and then adjourns to executive session not to return to
public session because the only purpose of the meeting will be to discuss the efficacy of an appeal whether or not we recommend it. We don't recommend it and uh and and we'll have to defer to the expertise of Kate Connley and Caris North on that one. We don't have to
defer to anybody. I just made it that way. But we will we'll certainly, you know, value their input and advice, thoughts, questions. >> Uh, thanks for >> that. And I don't know if anybody's read
that which I sent around today. Get a comfortable chair when you start reading it because it it take you a while to get through it and appreciate. I do have I do have experience with these hearings >> and uh you mentioned that the commissioner must adopt the commit the
decision. >> No, no, no. That doesn't have to. >> Well, that's right. That's what I was going to say. One of the hearings that I I participated on involved the Blue Hills Reservoir and I was really the main plaintiff
representing the Friends of the Blue Hills. And as a matter of fact, the judge agreed with me completely that the mitigation was inadequate for the loss of the 8 acres of open water. So his
decision was in WR, you must propose equivalent mitigation. And I was very pleased because that was my argument. But the commissioner reversed it 100%. turned it around
completely and said it's my prerogative to adopt or not adopt the decision and I do not adopt it. So I really don't have much of a brag having won that decision because it was
immediately reversed and that can happen. I don't think it happens that often, but as you said, the decision is not really a decision until the commissioner weighs in. >> Right.
>> Right. So, I I think I think we've got a month or so to to uh you know, noodle this around and consider the risks and benefits of further litigation. All right. And just just as you know a point of interest, uh the select board
this evening, not in executive session, but they were considering in open session um the Randolph Avenue uh situation because you know the as you know we permitted the Rotary at Chikataba Road and then for reasons that
I still can't fathom um the Department of Transportation appealed our allowance of the permit. uh because I guess they didn't like our boiler plate conditions of no refueling and uh overnight storage or something. I don't know. But a superseding order
issued also allowing the permit to go forward. But uh but Randolph Avenue is the traffic is just becoming just incredible. Uh so that's really hot on their u issues and and that may come back before us at at
um especially you know when the the the 240B projects at 7-Eleven Randolph Avenue and then across the street at 628 Randolph Avenue when they're open for business. I I don't know what's going to happen to the traffic there, but
we may have some issues uh that that affect the conservation uh commission at that point. But it's something to keep your eye on in any event. All right. Any other thoughts, comments, new business, anything? >> I have a a little bit to report. Um,
John, you recall that you asked me to uh start a beaver subcommittee. >> Yeah. >> At the last hearing. >> And uh >> yeah, I have been thinking about that. And uh in pursuit of that, I did take
some action today, which was to meet with Mayor Connor and Sean Mccanty at Yulan Rink. and we walked from Mulan Rink >> to Cantav and then around the back side of the stream behind uh
>> um Kevin Kading's house and uh uh back down Harland and then up to the concrete flood storage dam and then back along. >> And all I wanted to say is that we did
see more dams. We did see more lodges, but we did not see any beavers. And what we talked about was what the beaver subcommittee might do to improve the current situation.
And really the only idea we're working on right now is to try to get a public walkth through with some beaver experts so that we can hear from the people with the knowledge and give the neighbors the
opportunity to ask questions. That's really the only idea I have at this point. I would say that the water conditions were such that we're probably not going to be getting any calls about problem beavers right this moment
because Harland Street the closed portion is completely out of the water. the water level. If you look upstream from Canton Avenue from the bridge this summer, it was coming over the bank
on the uh east side, the Uli Rink side, because the channel was blocked. Now, the channel is open. And if you walk up past Kevin's house and up the old Harland Street, you will see two dams on
your way up besides the lodge that Steve mentioned. that's before the culvert that's on the side of the road. And both of the dams you see have notches in them as if somebody tried to take them apart just in a narrow area. So you have these
little breaks where the water flows through. Whether that represents the work of the beaver people that we were told would have permission, we gave them permission to do that. Whether they did
that or it just happened by itself, I don't know. But right now, it's been cold enough that if beavers are under the ice, we won't see them. They can go in and out of their lodges. There's enough
water. They're just not going to be evident, I think, as long as the freeze lasts. So, I think there will be a little uh break in the sequence of problems that the Beavers
have been creating, but it doesn't mean that there won't be more problems next spring. So, I thought it was worthwhile to take that walk to get the NEPA people to get eyes on what the issues are and to talk about with them about a public
meeting. So, that's where we are right now. Tom, they may not have seen you may not have seen them, but my money is on the fact that they saw you. Um, I stood on the lodge, got up on it. It's a very big lodge alongside the
shutdown of Harland Street. Um, it's rock hard and it's bigger than any SUV you ever saw. It's a large pile of stuff. And did they hear me walking around on the roof? I don't know. Um,
>> well, now you know why the MIT class ring is has a beaver on it. >> Engineers. >> That's right. One thing we didn't see which we were looking for was
>> where is the stuff they were cutting to eat. We agreed that they eat wood basically or they eat the bark on woody growth. So we were looking for where they were cutting things to eat them and we really didn't see much of that. We
saw a couple of trees that have been gnawed on and we saw many many many branches that were piled up in the lodges, but it didn't look like us to us that they were anywhere near running out of forage because so much woody growth
was intact and uncheed. And one question we asked ourselves, how many beavers can live here in this corridor between Cantav and the flood storage dam? And if they do live here,
how long can they live here before they run out of u munchies? None of us knew the answer. Um, so this is going to be an ongoing issue and the only goal of
the subcommittee at this point is to try to spread awareness and knowledge and communication. So that it it does feel as Sean said a little bit that instead of having a plan
for dealing with beavers, we just react when something happens. Mhm. >> And that's we could probably do it better. I'm not sure how, but we probably could. >> No, that that's good. One of the things that um when you were speaking, I was
thinking that you should talk to the two gentlemen that appeared at the MACC convention last March at uh Holy Cross on it was the be the Bieber workshop. One of them was the owner of proprietor
or principal at Beaver Solutions and the other one um and I can't remember either of their names, but I' I've got notes and that they're in the the handouts uh at the convention. Um and that those one of those gentlemen was the one that Marina
Fernandez spoke with um about the beaver deceiver not working on the long one. But those those guys are expert. And Chris Durk, the the the damn guy from >> Yes. >> DCR, he knows them. Um
>> he that we might have to end up paying for it or find somebody to pay for it, >> but he would be a great guy to bring in to talk to about >> what can we do long term? You how how do you plan for the future >> without just constantly trapping the
beavers? Um >> Yes. And that's where that beaver deceiver idea came from. And Marina talked to him specifically about that. And he said, "It's it's too long a dam. It won't work. They only work effectively in short dams." Um, and I I
don't know what long is and what short is. I just know the the big dam that they were talking about was one that was, I don't know, 80 feet long or something. >> Recording in >> and that is still there. We could see that up by the concrete dam. We could see it
was still up there. And they've actually started to build another one that's closer to the dam. >> So, however many dealers removed, it does seem as like there's plenty more. >> All right. Well, I'll I'll get you the
name of the Beaver Deceiver guy from Beaver Solutions. Thank you. >> Maybe you could reach out. Are you a mayor or Christ Turk uh could talk. >> Yes, we want to get DCR in there, too.
And uh Christ Turk did not get back to me, so I'll have to try and get him interested again. We'll see. >> All right. Good. All right. Thanks for the update, Tom. Um >> All right. Anything else by way of new business? I have one John and that is to
resurface 45 rivers IDF the construction that took place within jurisdiction. >> Um >> yes. >> So if we could add that to the agenda and also we had a year ago the uh the
cutting of the wetland trees and shrubs opposite that address. So can you back my you know I can't foolishly I shut my phone off but can you go back is it 45 um Riverside Drive
>> that's my recollection 45ide yeah >> okay but was there a problem both at the house and across the street >> that's correct >> all right and Steve did you go there >> not recently no >> okay but I I I thought like a month or
so ago you were there >> at least a month ago yes I was there. >> But wasn't there an issue that this house was being flipped? So, we really don't know who the owner is. >> That's my recollection. Yes. >> Do you do you know anything more about that, Arthur? The whether the person
>> other than the fact that a bank or another party must know the owner >> the bank will for sure. I'm sure. >> Y >> All right. So, you know, we put it on the agenda, but you know, by way of a plan of action, isn't the first step to
find out who owns it? We can go to the assessor's office and do that. >> All right, Philip, is that something you can >> do that? >> Absolutely. I can find out tomorrow 45 Riverside. >> Okay. Thanks, D.
>> And then and then why don't we do this? Why don't we find out who the owner is, the owner of Racket, and then send a letter to that person similar to the letter that we sent to Miss Brown. It was very courteous and invitation. please come in and explain what's going on. >> Yeah,
>> that might make, you know, a good first step. >> Okay. >> And then just for planning purposes, we can anticipate that it'll be ripe for discussion at our next meeting in January. All right. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> All right. Good. Anything else >> with no new business? Yeah. Yeah. No, that's >> Thank you, John. I I thought I had a hand. I thought it was somebody's hand. It was my cursor. >> Um, do you have something, Wendy?
>> I I do. Um, I was I was going to ask Steve if um when when you meet with with Miss Miss Brown. Gina, um I'm wondering if if I could possibly attend.
>> I don't see why not. Okay. I um and also um I I know that uh that we've had a lot of discussion about our tree replacement policy, but it it just seems to me that this would be one of those cases in
which we could make an accommodation um when the time comes to discuss um the replacement and if she uh she chooses to make a contribution to our true
replacement fund. >> Understood. Understood. You you you're catching on. That's why it's a policy and not a regulation. >> Yeah. I I I can learn new things. >> There's a reason for that. >> Yes.
>> And and we can we can also discuss >> Fair enough. So, and give give our collective best to Miss Brown. >> Yeah. John, we can also discuss how it may be counterintuitive cutting the trees down adds water to the site.
>> Yeah, >> I know what I said to absorb water. They don't add water to the atmosphere. >> You cut it down. It adds water. >> Well, especially your favorite Norway maples, John. They're they're really
good at absor absorbing water. >> Yeah. I've had a number of clients say, "I'm going to cut down all the trees and we're going to make it drier." And I say my to my clients, "No, you're not. You're going to make it wetter." >> What?
>> But maybe we can make some suggestions for replacing >> Yes. >> those lost trees with with some species that maybe have less of a canopy and more of a a root system. >> Yes. Willows, etc.
take a while. Okay. >> Yeah. But I I'm wondering too if there's something bigger picture that might be going on in the in the area that's contributing to her problem. It just seems so strange to me that she's lived
there for almost five decades and this has only become a pressing problem now. >> Well, >> yeah. I think I my guess would be that they'll they've somehow blocked up a water uh channel. >> Mhm.
>> You know, that's just a guess, but it's a good guess. >> Well, >> over time, if you have French drains protecting a foundation, they can fill in with silt. >> That can happen. >> And and roots as well. >> Yes.
>> Yeah. I think I think our problem is the foundation, not the trees and back. But you know, it takes an expert to know. >> But Tom, I think you are on target with the composition of the soil. I mean,
glacial chill >> absolutely >> is throughout the town of Milton. And as storm water increases, we're going to see much more of an impact. >> It's really problems. >> Yeah. that her house has become
unlivable. It's really what an awful thing to have to put up with. >> Well, we live in my neighborhood. There was a a marsh in back of our house which is now called Andrew's Field. >> There's a stream underground that's been totally filled in. And you know that's
water is going to find its way. >> It does. >> Got to go somewhere. >> Yeah. >> 100 years ago, nobody thought of those things. My my heart just goes out to her. It really does. >> Charlie, would you would you be able to
carve out a few moments to join us as well? I'm sure she would really benefit from your insight. >> Yeah, I'd be happy to uh to make myself available. >> Great. >> Sounds like a plan. So, will you coordinate that?
>> Yes. Okay, good. Thanks, Steve. Wendy, >> thank you, Steve. Thank you, Charlie. >> And thank you, Tom. >> Yeah, I I hope she gets a house she can live in at a reasonable price. That's a lot to ask.
>> Yeah, true. It is. >> All right. Any other new business? >> I'd make a motion, Mr. chairman to adjourn for a merry Christmas, a happy holidays, and season's greetings, and happy new year, and everything else you
want to put in the basket. >> I'll second that one. Second, >> all good night all. >> Good night. All right.