Uh, good evening. I'd like to call the U meeting to order of the Milton School Building Committee. It is uh August 3rd at 7:02 p.m. as they typically do. And just for the members that are present, they'll just do roll call attendance. Uh
Nathan Hutter, >> present. >> Uh Bob Mayhew, >> present. >> Scott Terishek, >> present. >> Uh Mark Warren, >> present.
Uh >> Peter Robashimer, >> present. And we got Tim who just joined. Tim Lombard will be on in a second. And I know I got a text from Glenn Hoffman. He's going to be running a couple minutes late, but he'll be on. Uh Carrie
Hurley uh uh messaged earlier saying she's not available. So I think the only other one that may jump on is Aqua. So we'll just keep an eye out for him. Um the second on our agenda, >> I'm still figuring out how to hear you guys, but I'm present. I heard you
saying that before, Sean. >> Good, man. All right. Gotcha. Um, the second thing on our agenda is citizen speak. So, we reserve the first 15 minutes of our meeting. Uh, for any citizen that would like to speak, we ask
that you keep your uh discussion to three minutes and then please also state your name and address just for the minutes. I only see two people in the audience. So if they want to speak, they'd raise their hand. And not seeing any. Uh so
we'll move on from citizen speak. Uh third thing on the agenda are meeting minutes. So uh I sent out uh meeting minutes for uh three meetings uh previous meetings that we had earlier. And then Nick Milano from our um OPM
selection meeting that we did uh sent a summary of that one. That was the June 8th uh minutes that were there. Um and then the on the 27th there were two sets of minutes. So the first set was from the OPM uh selection committee. So you
know Scott I think you and I are the only ones that were present for that one. So when it comes around for voting for those it would just be you and I. Glenn Glenn was present too but he's just not here right now. So, um, we'll see if people have any questions or comments or edits, uh, to the draft
minutes that were sent out for those. >> All right, Eric. None. Uh, do I hear a um obtain any uh motions to approve any of the minutes? >> Just for sake of efficiency, I can I can be in charge of making the motions if
that helps. Sean, I assume we have to do we have to do these one by one or can we do them in bulk? uh we can do them in bulk and basically the way we've done them previously is uh people would vote to approve them and then just say they abstain for meetings
that they weren't in attendance for. So at the top of all the uh minutes are who was in attendance. Um so you know if you just want to make it that type of motion we can just do it all in bulk. >> Okay then. Um, I will make a motion
to approve the following minutes with the caveat that uh members will indicate abstain if they were not present during the meeting. This includes
the May 27th OPM subcommittee minutes, the May 4th minutes, sorry, let me do this in better. the May 4th meeting minutes, meeting minutes of the May 27th meeting, meeting minutes of the May 27th
OPM subcommittee meeting, minutes of the June 8th uh committee meeting. I think that's it. Do I have a second? >> That is it. Yep. >> Second.
>> All right. Any discussion? Um, hearing none, uh, we'll just do it as a roll call vote. Um, so similar as I called out before, so Nathan Hut, >> uh, yes with an abstension for the OPM
subcommittee. >> Yep. Uh, Scott Terishek, >> yes to all of them. >> Mark Lori, >> yes. With absention to the OPM subcommittee.
All right. And then Tim Lumber, I think he's still having audio issues. Um, and then so, um, myself, uh, yes to all of them. So, we are, we got a chunk of them approved. So, we appreciate appreciate your your review on that one.
Um, moving right along with agenda item. >> Um, >> yes, sir. >> You want me to vote? >> Yeah. Yeah. Now that you get your audio going, man, go for it. >> All right. This is So I I didn't vote. >> Oh, Peter.
>> Yeah, >> Peter. Sorry about that. >> No problem. So I will I'm yes with while abstaining from May 4th and the the May 27th. >> Yeah, the May 27th OPM subcommittee as well.
>> Okay. >> Hey, Peter, are you able to hear me? Sorry. Yep, we can hear you, Tim. Yes, Tim, I can hear you. >> I'm able to hear everyone on this call with the exception of Shawn. And I think that is maybe an issue on my end, and
it's it's very odd. >> Um I'm not sure if Sean asked me to vote on the acceptance of our meeting minutes or not. I've reviewed them and I was present for those uh meetings that the motion was made for. So, uh, for the record, I will vote in the affirmative
to, uh, approve those meeting minutes, but I think I'm going to keep trying to log off and back on to the probably the frustration of Sean. >> Okay. >> All right. I'll I'll be back momentarily. Might do a re restart of my computer.
>> Probably some type of special filter he has to cut off my audio. So, um, all right. All right. So, we're we're good on meeting minutes now. Uh I saw that uh Glenn Hoffman just joined us, too. So, perfect timing. Um moving
on to agenda item number 4 A and 4B. Uh we'll just kind of combine them because we're going to turn it over to our OPM who's with us tonight, uh which is Sean Burke and Sheamus O' Conor that you may remember from our previous efforts that we did before. Um I believe this is our
first meeting where they're actually joining us here. So, welcome guys. Um, if you could, I'll I'll kind of turn it over to you guys and um, let [clears throat] me just make sure you can share your screen. >> Send a request now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And it just allowed you, you
should be good now, Sean. >> All right. Oops. Great. Uh, can everyone see that? >> Yep. Good. >> All right. Um, uh, thanks Sean. Um, as, um, Sean said,
I'm Sean Burke from PMA Consultants here with Sheamus O' Conor. uh really two kind of uh goals here tonight is one is to reintroduce oursel and or to introduce ourselves to people who don't know us and then just to walk you through the first kind of stage of the
MSBA process which is designer selection um and certainly if you have any questions along the way feel free to stop us um but I'll just run through this until someone stops us and asks a question all right so um
uh right now represent This is our project team that was presented at the OPM um interview session. Uh myself as the project lead with uh Sheamus Okconor as a project manager. We also have some other staff uh that will be in and out just helping us when things get busy during the MSA MSBA process. It's kind
of uh es and flows of of workload. So when we do need extra support, we have that. Uh particularly with Kevin Nigro who's up uh he's up on the Northshore, but he had a huge project with a big mea component of it. So, if this does go um you know to that spot near a wetland, uh
he's just a great resource for us to have. Um we also have Julia to help us out with marketing and community outreach. Um our sub consultants here at PMNC we have listed as our estimator. Uh BEA, we usually use them for additional
um commissioning consultant or envelope consultant and uh onsite IQ partners with us uh to take pictures and things like that. All of that all anything that we have they will have to get approved by the committee any any services that we want to do by them but they are uh listed on our team because they're they
are people who we uh use a lot and uh supplement our team with uh you know certain design reviews and other aspects. Um so PMA uh we've been around uh well over 50 years founded 1971. It's a family-owned company still. Uh locally
in our Brainree office, we have 90 uh professionals with 40 over 40 of them are MCPBO certified. Uh and then nationally, we're we're pushing 300 employees uh across the country. Uh we'll we'll be supporting this job uh
solely out of our brain office. Uh just some past MSBA experience. Um we've done a lot of schools. We uh this division of our OPM group focuses uh particularly on schools. Uh so we have a long kind of track record and history of doing them. Uh we're well verssed in the
MSBA language. Um and we know a lot of the key players over at the MSBA because we've been doing this for them for quite some time. Um so for us, we're we're here to support this committee and really kind of act as a um you know, we want we want to be part of your team and
act as a team member here while we take care of all the um MSBA processes. to make sure we keep this on track. We're going to talk about designer selection, which is that first part of forming the team after OPM selection a little bit later. U but we realize that, you know, the key stakeholders here are more than just your school building committee.
It's your school committee, your staff, um certainly the town administrative, select board, department of public works, public safety, community groups. So, we want to get all of them uh together with the design team to make sure that as we plan for this uh project, we you know, we we have all the stakeholders involved and we're listening to them. Um, again, we're
we're going to advise you and manage your own on the MSBA process. Um, we're going to help organize meetings. We'll take meeting minutes. We'll uh, you know, really control everything. Uh, whatever you want us to do, we will we will fulfill that role. Uh, and from an MSBA process, we know what needs to be done so we can help tell you what you
should be having us do. Um, and again, we want to kind of operate as a member of your team, provide you with uh, timely and accurate information, and we're certainly available whenever you need us. Uh, and Sheamus and I both live in town, which is just an added benefit.
Um, oftentimes we will attend um, you know, uh, these community events, try to get the word out. We can help put up a project website if you want. We can do video updates, social media accounts, post flyers, information, whatever we need. But that's a little bit further down the road. Um, but just an example
of kind of our outreach efforts and and how we try to get the information out there. And we we find that just getting good information out, accurate information is is probably the most important thing for all these projects. And it really from starting uh on day one uh as you might know there's some misinformation that gets spread. So we
we do like to cover that with accurate information running through the MSBA uh process. There are eight modules. Module two where you're at right now is forming the team. You've hired us as your OPM and the next step is going to be to hire the
designer who's going to help us through that feasibility uh process to study all the different enrollment options that the MSBA gave you. um and um try to help pick the correct option for um to uh for the town then to move into schematic
design with that. So um with that I'm going to turn it over to Sheamus to kind of walk through the designer RFS process. >> Hello. Um so like Sean had mentioned um immediately after we were brought on board we started with the designer selection process. That's kind of the
next step before we move into module three which is the feasibility study proper. Um, so we've worked with um Nick Milano and Sean Oorc um via email to get the designer RFS finalized and ready to hit the streets. It actually will be
live this Wednesday. So this Wednesday we'll it'll hit the central register and we'll start seeing requests for the RFS. Um and so we we PMA will handle distributing that and kind of tracking all the distribution for that. Uh so I'll move ahead and we'll discuss kind
of the overall RFS timeline. [clears throat] So like I said um RFS is ready to hit the streets this Wednesday. Um so some kind key dates just to keep in uh everyone's mind is um the deadline is
the first week or the second week of September. So that's you know five weeks from when the RFS is live. Uh in between that time, we will have a briefing session. We currently have it set up for the 18th, which I think is a Tuesday uh for the morning. You know, as we get
closer, if the weather turns or if that date doesn't work, if something comes up for anyone on the committee, we can shift that. We just need a couple's days notice to send out an addendum to change the time and date or location. But right now we have it set for the 18th at 10:00 a.m. uh at the same location as the OPM
walkthrough which is the corner of Guile Roads um and Blue Hill Parkway. Um so overall in the timeline RFS's come in on uh the second week of September and then we PMA immediately begins their review and we get ready for
the MSBA designer selection panel um in early October. Um so if we can go on this this slide mostly says similar stuff. The next slide kind of talks about what PMA does.
Once all the designer um applications are in um we will do all of the kind of formalities of double-checking that all the submissions are you know accurate complete and they have all the required information. There's some information in
these applications that if they don't submit, it can be an automatic rejection. Uh we do have the ability to wave some of the requirements or ask them to submit them afterwards if the committee feels like that's appropriate. Um, we develop all of the scoring
criteria and backup materials that will be sent over to the MSBA for the designer selection panel. And then we create the same material for the um, OPM designer selection subcommittee for this school building committee. Um,
ideally we'd want to meet with that subcommittee before the designer selection panel just so that we can get everyone's thoughts together um, before we head to the MSBA board. And then I think moving on that we'll talk a little bit more about the designer selection panel for the MSBA.
So the designer selection panel meets uh twice a month [snorts] and um it's mostly headed by MSBA staff and you know local architects and um some other MSBA appointees. So on the panel,
the MSBA and their appointees have 13 seats, whereas the district only has three seats. So the MSBA does take a um an engaged role in helping the district select a an architect that is right for
the project. Um our dates currently are October 6th and October 20th. Um, one of the goals that we'll have to uh set in the next month or so. Oh, sorry. Sorry, Sean. Um, you have your hand raised.
>> Yeah, it's just a quick question. Sorry to interrupt, Shannon. So, on on the uh on the short list, how how does that get developed? Because at the designer selection panel, is that the entirety of all the submitts or who who creates the short list?
>> So, that is the first meeting of the designer selection panel. Um it's actually it's uh slide 19 or um or 18 Sean. Yes. So th this this is what we're going to do with the initial panel. So the
architect short list is going to be taking place at that first designer selection panel which is October 6th. So that's when as a as a group, the 13 members of the MSBA and the three members of the um Milton subcommittee
will meet as a whole group, review all applications, discuss them, and then at the end they'll rank all of our received applications. Uh we'll give three points to the everyone's first choice, two points to their second choice, one point to their third, and then no points to
any other um applicants. And then we go down the la the list of all members present and we just add them up. So the MSBA does have a larger average. The the benefit for
the district is that the MSBA typically lets the district speak last in any of the deliberations. So when whenever we go into voting, the district has kind of a final say before everyone kind of moves into the voting round.
Um, but does that answer your question, Sean? >> It does. Thank you. >> Okay. And, um, just just in the future, if anyone has any questions, just feel free to interrupt. Um, you know, it's it's hard to see when ra uh hands get raised on the on the um on
uh Zoom. Uh, so yeah, thank thank you for going back, Sean. Um so for the designer selection panel the MSBA has kind of guidelines for who the selection committee from the town should be. Uh
there are three local reps that um one should be designated by the school committee. Um one should be designated by the uh superintendent or his designate and then one should be the uh chief executive officer or a member of the school
building committee. It often it changes town by town. It it can really be whoever the town wants just as long as you know the school committee is fine with the school committee designate, you know, the the superintendent is fine with their design
and so on and so forth. We see any number of people who want to do it can do it. It sometimes it's voluntary, sometimes people are tasked for it. Is that correct, Sean? >> That is correct. Yes. Yeah. >> Um, so hopefully you have a kind of an
idea of who you want on the committee and then we'll just make sure you get the uh the correct approval. So if the MSB asks for paperwork, we'll have it available. >> Right. Okay. Uh, and so that is the we've already touched on this meeting. Uh,
then at the that was the sixth meeting. At the end of the meeting on the 6th, we will have a short list. Often it's three applicants get interviewed. I've seen them interview two and I've seen them interview four. Um, four interviews in a
day is a little long and so sometimes people are cognizant of that fact. So it's typically three applicants are interviewed. Um, and so the the applicants will have two weeks to put together their presentations and then we'll come back on the 20th and then we
almost rerun the same exercise as we did for shortlisting. We got a new blank scoreeet. We discuss all the interviews after they're over. Discuss the pros and cons. The district again gets the last turn at speaking and then we go into the voting role and the MSBA and the
district will read aloud their choices 321 and the highest score uh is awarded the contract to begin negotiations. >> Yeah. And just to be clear, that first meeting of the DSP, we're reviewing just the proposals that have been sented by the design uh firms, and they're going
to be discussing that, talking about, you know, what did you like about them, what didn't you like about them, uh to come up with the short list for that. And then at interview two, the designers will be invited in to give a presentation. >> Uh and so they will present to that and then at the end of it, that's when the
the vote happens. And um you will be at at the end of it, you'll you'll know who your designer is. Then you can start contract negotiation. And I see Mark has his hand up. That's all right, Sean. I can throw it to him. >> I'm I'm gonna assume it's all right. Go ahead. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Sorry about that. Go for it, guys.
>> Um uh uh Sean B. Um could y'all assuming then that the school committee has to vote to assign somebody to this committee. Is there language that y'all can, you know, email to Nathan and I that we can bring back to the school committee around that selection and also just the the
timeline by which we would need that prior to August 6th. Um I'm sorry, October 6th. >> I Yeah, off the top of my head, I don't think there's any formal language, but if there's not, I will just draft something up for you to use. Um and then I'll get you a uh a date on it. I it's
it's usually a like a week or two ahead of time. The MSBA asks us just to send them an email of who the the selection is. But I just think procedurally it would make sense if the school committee is going to elect a uh an official to to actually take a vote on it if you have a meeting. It I think it's the right way to do it.
>> Yeah. Okay. That would be very helpful. Thank you. >> All right. >> And then uh Sean, I think that the next slide key dates kind of touches on on that. Um so key dates uh of course the designer selection um the applications
will be due or sorry proposals will come in second week of September. Um, so key dates we'd be looking for then is uh at some point we can do it before the the 9th or after. Uh we would look to have another school building committee and
that is hopefully when we can narrow down the designer selection panel committee members. Um, and then following that, we're hoping to have a meeting with the designer selection panel subcommittee before the first DSP meeting on the 6th just to
discuss uh amongst the three of us uh three of you guys all the proposals that came in and discuss kind of strategies for the designer selection panel meeting. Um th those dates are flexible. um we can meet whenever um and we're more than
um able to meet before um applications or proposals are due in September. >> Yeah, I mean it would probably make sense to have that the your selection committee members, you know, at or around the time responses are due so that th those uh
those individuals are probably going to spend a lot more time reviewing these having to go into that meeting with the MSBA and provide uh their ranking of them. Uh so I I would say it it would make sense before the 9th or at right around that time to to have that committee selected and then give everyone a little bit of time to review
those and then to meet back with the uh designer selection subcommittee once or twice before the uh the DSP on the six to make sure they're all on the same page and uh kind of run you through the MSBA process how it works. Uh I believe the MSBA also has a their own kickoff that they'll run you through to explain
this uh but we'll we'll do that in advance of of their meeting as well. And then the last date that we have is the um a school uh building committee meeting to have designer introductions. Uh typically we like to have that you
know as soon as we can um once the designers on boarded. Uh obviously we plan typically meet on Mondays here. So, we probably want to target that for the 26th to have the uh architecture team join us and just introduce themselves and kind of discuss their first thoughts
for work plan and what the next couple of months will look like as we go into ED visioning and ED planning. Uh and I believe that is it. Uh so we can entertain any questions. being none. [clears throat] Good job, guys. Um so yeah, Sean
Sheamus, what we'll do is um you know, when we get to the topic talking about um the agenda item about future meeting dates, you know, I mean, maybe we'll uh if you kind of keep some of those dates aside and then, you know, as we get into that, you know, we we'll map out, you
know, the next month to two months on um you know, meetings that that I think we need to have. Seeing there were no questions on that, we will keep moving. Uh so agenda item number five uh which is our update on
library college and the work with the DLR group. So uh Shali and John are both here. Um so you know and so I'd like to turn it over to you guys to you know uh discuss kind of your report that you
have and you know uh we can dive into the details. Great. Thank you. Um Janice is going to share her screen in a second. So, we've put together some key highlights from the report um that we'll be emailing out
after this meeting just to talk about some of the updates from the last school committee meeting and some of the feedback that we've had in our conversations and to go over the cost estimate um that we received from Peter Bradley's group.
Janet, do you want >> Are you seeing Yes. Are you seeing the little square at the bottom here? >> No. >> Okay. So, just wanted to make sure. Okay. On my screen, it has the black bar. And I just wanted to double check that you weren't seeing the black bar.
>> No, we're good. >> Okay. Perfect. All right. Um, so this presentation that we're going to go through today is going through the options again. you saw them last week. Um, we've actually now uh articulated the two-story option as well. Last week
we spoke about it, but we only had the option one, which what you see here, which is the existing building. Um, and we did not have the twostory option, and then we had a three-story option. Um, so we're going to just run quickly through all of those. Um, and then we're going
to run through um a the chart that Sean had sent us and asked us to update as far as what was requested from the district and what we were able to fit in each of the options. Um and then we're going to look just very briefly at the
um space summary comparison between um the option three which is the largest enrollment option and how it compares to MSBA and what they just so that it puts a little context in the method behind our madness if you will. Um and then the last thing we're going to just look at
is um cost. Um we have um a actually PMNC also did our cost estimate for this um project. So this is option one. This was the option that we tried to make it minimally an um minimal intervention. Let's see what we can fit in the
building and we only then added additions um where it would um benefit like code improvements um and ADA. So, um you can fit in here and for prek which is the purple um and the
difference between the tonal quality the darker purple is special education prek the lighter purple is general um prek and then likewise when you look at the turquoise um for the upper floors the lighter turquoise is general um
kindergarten and the darker turquoise is special education although not all of them are special education classrooms sometimes it's other services like OTPT and things like that. So, anything that's um the darker color is in some way, shape or form um serving the the
special education um programming. So, in this we have the four general prek um two special education prek that is one short of what was requested. So, they're not able to get the full complement. Um,
and then we at the bottom floor we we put the warming kitchen and then we added a new stair um so that we actually had egress um from the B building without going into the mansion um because remember the mansion is wood and
we're keeping the kids out of the wood um structure. So, we added a stair and actually that stair over there is in all of the three options because from that top floor of that uh B building, which is the 1960s building just to the left of the mansion, we need that egress
bath. So, that's on I'm not going to mention it again. It's on all three of them. The other place then that we added um you can see the addition on the second floor um and um the third floor. Um
the third the second floor we actually added it so that we had handicap accessibility there as well as there was a pre-existing um uh oil tank structure below and we were taking advantage of the like the
footprint matches the oil um tank structure and and when I say structure it's not the oil tank that is the structure it's a basement that has um concrete walls and that's what we're building on top of and we're then adding that addition um to that. So then the next option um and by the way then we've
got 10 general education and 11 or 11 11 total one special education. So again we are under the count by quite a bit. The request was for um a total of 25 altogether um and we were not able to
get there in this one. Um then option two [clears throat] um and if you look at the presentation last week it option two was actually the the threetory option but then it made sense to make option two two stories and option three three stories. So it's been
renamed. Just pointing that out if anybody's going back through and and comparing them. Um option two has a twotory edition um uh to the right hand side of the mansion. It's pulled forward of building C. It does not connect to
the mansion, but it does connect to building C at the back. Um, and one of the, as I mentioned last week, one of the reasons why we did pull this forward was twofold. One, we're um, actually trying to make it the new entry and make
it more front and, you know, present, front and center, if you will. um as well as it allowed us to build into the hill which actually helps us um in the way that the number of floors are counting and it makes it less than you know u seem less massive because you
only see um like from this you only see like one and a half stories from Adam Street and as you drive down into the parking lot. Um so the first floor again it exits directly at grade out the back. So kids from the prek, you could work
your drop off um sequencing so that if the little kids were in strollers and things like that, they actually can enter at their floor. Um but they also then can go directly out into playgrounds. And there's an outdoor play in a courtyard that is at the same level
um as the basement um what they call basement in building B, but it's at the same you know it's um technically it's actually up a couple of steps from building C. Um but you can actually enter there at grade as well. So that
allows them to have um access through u steps and ramp from the new addition allows them to have access from the you know building B over there on the other side and it gives a nice little private courtyard if you know they didn't want
to go out to the bigger play area that is out by the big tree. Um at this lower level then on the far right is new receiving. The existing building does not have a loading area. When you go out there, the dumpsters are just being parked out back. Um they're actually
parked out back in the uh far upper left corner um behind the sea building there where that red arrow is pointed towards the existing stair. They're just hanging out out there. So we feel like it's really important for um you know this population as well as just tidiness that
we have a proper receiving and trash and custodial area. Then the other thing that is just then across the hallway from that is the is kitchen storage and an area that would also include some space for mechanical and then the library. Um what is nice about the site
though is because of the constantly going down um downhill towards that back courtyard. By the time you get to the where that red arrow is you're at grade, you know, pretty much. And that kids can exit. And it also means that that yellow
and even the lefthand side of the library has nice, you know, nice windows facing that courtyard. So, it's not like buried space um you know, at all. And then the four classrooms that are facing out the back are on this option kindergarten classrooms. So, you see
four new classrooms with some small group rooms in between and some toilets in between. And they actually face then the new outdoor play area. the green area that has been added there is covering up the existing parking underneath. We are actually reducing the amount of parking and increasing the
amount of green space. Um but we still have plenty of spaces. Um and in fact one of the things that if this project goes forward definitely you should look at how many spaces you have and possibly even more of it could be turned over to green space um once you meet the counts for
the the staff and visitors. um a community college has a very different requirements than a prek when everybody is getting dropped off and it's really only the the staff and a few visitors um that are needing to park. Um so then the
other wing which is the purple um existing wing that is again prek but this time we picked up instead of the warming kitchen down there in the lowest floor of building B we do have now the seventh prek classroom. this option. Then um you'll see at the third floor or
sorry the third floor then is just kindergarten and there's no addition. So um the middle floor is same for this option and the three-story option. So you enter right there in the center there's a vestibial you can go right into the admin. the nurse is already
also in that area and so you can have a secure vestibial where where visitors can enter um and then access the the main corridors of the uh the facility. Um kindergarten again is on this level um as well as then in the existing um
building at the back building C. Then you'll notice the pink spaces. The pink spaces are specials um similar to the library which is in pink. And so you have a multi-purpose. It's I'm calling it a gym, but it's a small gym. It's sized appropriately for little kids. It's closer to 4,000 square
feet instead of the 6,000 that you'd get in a typical elementary. A music space. Again, sized appropriately for this age group. Um, OTPT. We put OTP beside the gym. And this is an advantage of this because sometimes the OTP may actually
want to spill in and actually use that multi-purpose space to do some, you know, bigger gross motor kind of things. And then at the other end of the building to have a destination, there's some art and there's some additional um, you know, admin space. Always within um
our minds, we were thinking, well, what can we use the mansion for? admin space, you know, admin other admin functions is something that we've always, you know, said is could work in the mansion. And one of the things that we were thinking is that this allows an admin at that
side that might be part of the main dis you know um uh other functions separate and or even like a director's office you know and functions that would have people arriving and not going into the school and they would actually enter into the mansion and then they could you
know um go into any offices within the mansion or um that space that's just right there adjacent. So then the as I mentioned the third floor has more classrooms and resource as well as some additional offices. Um I'm going to pause there and ask if there's any
questions about this option because you didn't see this one last week. Is there any thing? This one actually pencils out to being um the you know uh closest to the what was requested in the um from
the district. This is the square footage that you really are looking for based on the classrooms that were requested. All right, any questions? I don't see any. And by the way, like other people have mentioned, I won't necessarily see if you raise your hand. So feel free to
shout it out if you um do want me to pause or stop me in any way. So this is the threetory option three. It is the um same as what you saw last week. Um, this provides for growth. This
is the one that has what we call a design capacity of the 383 students for kindergarten and the 154 students for um the prek and all day prek as opposed to the other one had four of those
classrooms were half day. They both would have 154 students but in the other one you only have 94 FTEES for preK i.e. only 94 at a time can be in the building because that's how many you know spaces
are available. Whereas this one actually those half day now could attend full day. Now that opens you up to possibilities. Not only you know you could still have some of those classrooms half day. It may be that parents actually some parents maybe want that. So you could then also increase it
if like suddenly you wanted to you know provide more prek for people in the district or you had a lot of requests for that. It gives you that flexibility to go either direction to either increase your population or meet the 154
um just as full day. Then then on the um second floor um that is the same as what we saw. And Chenali, you didn't include the third floor. That's the second floor twice. Oops. >> Oops. Sorry. >> Um
>> I'll fix that before I email it out tonight. >> Uh the second floor is the same as the other one. And the third floor in the multi-purpose is double height. Um and what is admin nurse becomes another classroom. um but because it's very much the same. And then the other side um at
the third floor is also um the same as what it was in the the other option um where you just have the kindergarten classrooms uh repeated. Uh so that is that option and your counts here you have nine general classrooms, two
special education and then you have um 20 general classrooms for kindergarten and you can have up to two special education there as well. So, and I will say one thing about special education,
the numbers seem to be increasing. And I don't know if your district has experienced this, but one of the other reasons why since this is supposed to be a 50-year building and not just a 10 or 15 year building is if the numbers keep
going up, then it may be um just a good idea to plan for some extra classrooms. And and the other thing is is you would want to do a demographic study. I mean that's where this would actually start in determining a final um you know count for the design
capacity. So that though if you needed more special education in the there is also no difference between preK sizing and K- sizing of classrooms. So you also could like you know flex back and forth if you needed more than what was on that
first floor because you enter at a middle level. you enter at the middle at the from the front and you can also exit at the lower level. You can put those little kids on either floor um and not have them go upstairs. And you're legally allowed to put them one floor up or down on a stairs, but it's most the
time for the little kids. We really try to keep them at grade so that it's easy for them to get in and out of the building. This scenario, this site, the way that you're building into the hill actually allows you to do that. So these three axons are just all taken from the same direction. And you can see then the
first one um just has a little bit of you know um addition over here in the center there. Um the white is the the mansion. Um and then in this option you can see the two stories and you can see how the grade is sloping. And so by the time you get to the back um you're
actually um you know completely you know above grade but when here you're uh that kitchen and receiving area is buried. Um and then over here that third story that gets added which is making it the same height as the existing um building C um
building. So these are just some axons to help you imagine how it's like sitting on the site. Um it still has you know a good feel around it in either case. Um because of the hill I actually think that the threetory also does not feel you know overly large um or
anything like that. And I will also just want to qualify when we did the option three, we were kind of thinking of it as like what would we do if we like maxed out what we felt comfortable both from an enrollment as well as from like on the site. That doesn't mean you can't
build less. We wanted to just show you what it would look like as a sort of like okay well this is like the kind of the biggest footprint you might want to consider but then you can always build less. I don't want anybody to think, oh my goodness, if you do buy it, you're roped into doing one of these three
options. It's just showing you the range of what's possible, not an absolute in any, you know, in any of the the cases. Um, so again, this has um the uh um construction, it has the same information as what was above, but it
also has the con construction costs. Um, and it's interesting that black bar is making it so that I cannot read the bottom line of the construction costs online. Here we go. So, I got it. Okay, go for it. >> Okay, so um so the construction cost is
what we received from um PMC and then we did an escalation of roughly 30% to get to the overall project cost. So, that's going to include all of your designer fees, permitting, all of those costs that are not necessarily um associated
with the actual construction of the project. And so, for option one, which is your base option, your total project costs, we're coming in with an estimate of roughly $42 million. And all of these um
estimates from Peter Bradley do include um an escalation fee. Um, >> so then for option two, which is your twotory option, your project cost comes in um just under $75 million. And then
option three is a little bit over $85 million. So you do get the benefit of the scale of option three gaining that extra I think it's roughly 14,000 square ft um for a less percentage of the um
overall. So you're you're there's a huge benefit to the scale of going to the larger scale financially because your cost square footage and all that goes down because your startup costs are all the same. So um there is a bit of order
of magnitude between just renovating the existing building and then going all the way to option three. But then again there's a scale classroom gain that you're seeing. The other thing I just want to mention, you'll notice next to gross area, it says usable area. The square footages
below the 41 and the 54 is just the usable area of the buildings. I didn't in the and when like comparing the sizes and and also um so that when you looked at it and understood like well how much square feet are kids actually going to be in, I didn't count that lower
basement of the building C. Um, and I also didn't count the portion of the basement below the mansion when it includes the mansion costs that is dedicated just to mechanical. Like if it was a basement, now we have those numbers elsewhere um where it's the
total total total. Um, but I just was wanting you to understand like if anybody starts doing like square foot per student and things like that, those pre-existing basements, if we were building those building from scratch, we may not build it like that. And you may not have all of that an entire floor,
but yet you can't actually do anything because literally like you're, you know, Sean when he's walking down there, he's too tall. He's hitting his forehead on the beam. So that's why it's unusable space and and that's why I qualify that it's usable gross floor area, not total total gross floor area.
>> Um I think Mark has his hand up. >> Okay, thank you. I couldn't I couldn't see that. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Hi. Thank you. Appreciate all this. This is all great. Um I guess I had a question about the difference with the square footage with without mansion and with mansion. Wouldn't the difference
for each of those scenarios between the without and the width be the same because you're adding the same amount of square footage of the mansion in that second option. I'm just wondering why that varies because it's 13,000 square feet in the first one and
then 12,000 little, you know, in the second one and then 15,000 in the third one. Does that make sense? Um yes it does. Um so in the first one actually we did include some square
footage in the mansion for some program elements for things that did not like um teacher lounge um records room other things because that first option like we were barely fitting things in if we didn't include some of the space in the
mansion but it wasn't things that the kids had to um would have to access. It was only things that was staff only could still be considered as an ancillary business use and not that. So definitely in option [clears throat] one we had to
take we took advantage of that and I actually probably did that in option two as well. Losing some of the square footage over there on that third floor meant that I lost some different spaces and some of the admin spaces um would have inevitably gotten smaller and I
would have pushed that some of that into the mansion. Um so it makes sense if option three has the the biggest difference because it option three was able to truly exist on its own whereas each one of them was kind of pushing more and more into the um mansion.
>> Gotcha. So just uh clarify um restate it. It's the width mansion is the width the portions of the mansion that you weren't creating programs for related to. >> Yes. Yes. Like all in you know total there's about in the um there's a
potential without putting other uses without bringing like say facility staff or superintendent or anybody like that. There's about 1,200, maybe a little more, maybe 1300 square feet of programmed space that could fit in the
that could go in the mansion. And one of the things that's nice about like option three, and again this is why I say it's sort of like a bigger maximum versus any of the others, you could literally say that the mansion had a completely different use and people would enter and
exit that building and never do they like mix or meet because the egress in the mansion works without having the adjacent building with it. All we'd have to do is just do a little bit of work at the the two um like the vestibule and
then the main entrance of the mansion to get them, you know, to to go through and one make the other one handicap accessible. But both of those things are doable. As we went down the line, we started pushing into the mansion because we couldn't get it all to fit. So that
difference is just the, you know, what's left that could be for other square other square footage. The other thing is is that in all of these it was a light touch to the mansion. If you look at the cost
estimates and we have the pages um the summary pages, but we'll give you the in the re full report the entire detail. It's a light touch to the mansion. Obviously, the cost would go up to renovate the mansion if you decided to go in there and do a lot to it,
Nathan. >> Yes, thank you. Um, would you mind going back one slide to the Thank you. I I have two questions. The first one is I think I know the answer to this. This might be a dumb question at this stage, but the the rendering is throwing me a little bit.
um in building C is that that is obviously we're doing the internal renovations but in terms of the square footage of the building is that as it stands now or have we we have not added we're not proposing adding square
footage to building C at this stage >> in option one you're adding the stair at the very far um let me see can you see my cursor >> or I can also So, let's see. Laser pointer here. So, we're adding a stair
in all the options. So, here, here, and here. I need that egress so that I don't take kids through the mansion. Um, so that isn't all of them. In option one, this is an addition and it's so that
um a we're are taking out the stairs that are there. They ex there's stairs that are existing. We're also infilling the boiler room. We're doing that in all three options to gain more square footage for classrooms in the building. And in doing so, then we're pushing out a lobby, an entrance, a terrace, and
some steps. All of that um happens there. If I go back to So, all of that happens right here. It's in the front. And then here, that's what that
renovation is or addition is here. And the rest of it is renovated. That entrance is currently not handic handicap accessible. It's just literally stairs up to a vestibule. It sets back deep into the building. It actually makes for interesting thermal bridging
um and other things like that. And by filling it in, you're getting more usable square footage in that building as well as a handicap entrance as well as then since we're building on an existing foundation. Remember, there's a there's um again going back if you saw the rectangle,
that rectangle is existing and it's below grade. You go out there and you don't see it. If you didn't know, if you didn't look at plans and understand that it existed, you wouldn't know it was there. But that is where we're adding the addition and the terrace. Um so that we're getting a little bit of bang for
our more bang for our buck. >> Yeah. >> So then on the So that is the an addition there but it's very very tiny. It's literally like I think the actual usable square feet inside is like 1,200 square feet or something like that. It's very small. Um you know and it's just to
make the handicap accessibility in that entrance more viable. >> Got it. Okay. Very helpful. And then um I have not digested every word of the um cost estimate yet. Is there in there any
allocation for landscape improvements? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. How do those vary? Obviously between option one and options two and three there's needed landscape improvements, but could you just characterize those
for us across the options? So, I actually think that it might be on the summary page here. >> Yeah. So, if you look at the midpoint, um he's carrying a million dollar allowance for all of the options. Um part of it is the removal of the
parking and adding the play structure area. So the assumption is that the play structure and that um outdoor spaces that the kids would need would be the same in um all of the options and then
it's just a little bit of the um road work and site. So he we when we discussed it with him this sort of assumption going into it is even though we're building a larger footprint in option two and three the site work costs would be relatively the same in all
three versions. >> Okay. >> And by the way this is option one. Um so it in in this option as well you could see there's hazmat removal. Um, I don't know if when the Stephie Bradley team
did their renovation in 2013, did they remove a lot of hazmat or not. Um, so we're we don't know. We didn't see an a Herror report or anything like that. So that is just literally an allowance. Um,
and then there is also play structure in all of the different options. Um, here it's it's 750. I'll I'll go forward. they actually may repeat. So, here is option um three. This is actually the full uh three-story build. And so, you
can see that there's the the play structure, new roadway access, as well as new green space because in this option you were actually doing work as well as then the million-doll general site work um allowance that was in the
other option as well. Um so um all of them also have a design an estimating contingency and it's substantial at this stage and then they also have an escalation allowance. So that's what's on this this line right here. And so all
of those are your subtotal before adding the you know the general conditions and uh building permits and all that kind of stuff. >> And just one comment on this one John. So the the option two that's listed here is actually option three from PMC. Uh
it's our option three. So when people looking at this slide, option two on this slide is actually option three. >> We only had um their their proposal was only for two options. So they >> y >> they did the smallest option and the biggest option but we actually then
interpolated the cost between the two um by going through and finding the subtracting out the top the top floor costs. Um so yeah >> and just just while I was speaking to Jenna uh so one other one too. So in all
three options a similar consistency across all three is infilling >> that uh call it mechanical space that you guys had talked about at our last meeting. Correct. >> Right. Right. Right. That mechanical space is um not going to be useful. We
don't use those kind of systems anymore. Um, and it's so valuable. The square footage is so valuable to actually add it to the building and it's just not very um it's not very hard or invasive to do so. >> Mhm.
>> Um, the other thing you'll notice down here is if anybody wanted to understand like, well, what's the value of the the mansion, he actually included a deduct. So, it's about $360,000. Again, that is not a full renovation.
That is minimal work with like just doing a roof work, um some window and door work, some fixing some things that um need repair and then some new systems. It is not reconfiguration. It
is not like new bathrooms. It's not new paint, new tile. It's none of that. Um it was just to you know uh bring it up to like a a standard um and we asked him to put in because technically you don't have to touch it. It can be considered a
separate building. It is a separate building and as long as they it's like you know just a party wall between two separate buildings. If you didn't want to do any of it and just leave it the way that it is, you could do that. We would have to put in some doors for
separation between that and the building B, but other than that, um, which would technically count as part of building B, the bu the mansion can just stay as it is. >> Yeah. So, one question, then I'll throw this one at, uh, at Peter uh, for a
second, too. So, um, you know, if the building's considered historic, could we util, you know, basically take out that line item and, uh, apply for CPA funding, you know, community preservation funding similar to what the the fire station's plan do for Athen?
>> Is that a question for me? >> Yeah, just asking, you know, from the select board. I'm just trying to think, you know, I mean, is that something you would see as an option that we might be able to do? I'm just trying to think of alternative ways to, you know, you know,
try to look at bringing the number down by looking at alternative funding. If you, if you don't know, Pete, sorry, I didn't mean to like throw it at you. It's just more of I know that's an opportunity I think the fire station building committee is looking at right now. Uh, and if it if it was an opportunity, you know, that's that's
just another way of lowering the number. >> Yeah. No, we happy to um help look into it, but I don't I don't know off the top of my head. Sean. >> All right. Sorry. And Mark is heavy hand raised, too. Yeah, I can't speak for the
Milton CPA, but I know generally uh obviously the CPA restriction is like um the three different buckets. And so they have a certain amount of money that they have to spend on historical renovations, which usually are there less of those projects than kind of the demands for
open space, you know, parks, fields, things like that typically in towns. And so, um, yeah, anyways, that's just my my experience with CPA funding is usually this, you know, that bucket of money is less in demand. And so, uh, I think that's a good idea, Sean, and something
that if all this moves forward is something we should look into. >> Okay. >> All right. Back to you, Jonas. Sorry. So, um the only other thing we were just going to go over, um you had and then honestly this is where it started with
the you put the base building, the two-story edition and the three story edition were like, "Hey, that's a good idea. Let's change the names of everything." Um this was a list of everything that was requested. Um the green check mark means that it's in. The red X means that it's out. Um for the
various and you can see that the base building second floor edition is all everything is in. The yellow means that then there's additional space and again this as I mentioned before the four classrooms they all went to full day for
the prek. So that's why there's four yellow checks. And then when we did um the capacity and we optimized for a um utilization between 85 and 90% is what you target.
Um we actually then reverse engineered how many classrooms are needed and we actually um have three more um in there. Now what you will notice as we go through then the MSBA is that they actually
have even more classrooms than you know recommend more classrooms. When we did the the utilization count, we used 19 students per class as our number as a you know 86% of 22 was 19 and we use
that number divided into the um total number of students and that determines how many classrooms. MSBA typically uses 18. Um and you'll notice that they actually if you put it in their formulas say that you should be targeting 21. I'm just putting that as a
comparison. So if anybody asks you like, wow, why do they suggesting that you have all these extra classrooms, it is a common practice that you have a design enrollment and that's what needs to be determined and that is like honestly the most important thing is what is your design enrollment and then you that
determines the number of classrooms. I don't think, you know, I don't think that we because you didn't do a demographic study and all those other kinds of things that we have that completely determined, which is why we did all of the three options with the different um to show you the different
scenarios. They also would recommend for this population one more specialed classroom. You see that in their column, it's four and it was requested to only have three. The reason why things are highlighted in green, it's things that either is a deviation from um you know
what MSBA would typically um include or something like that. So it's either a question or a deviation from what you see over here. Um so then um but your group of you know Bernardet and John
Failen, Superintendent Failen requested one more resource room than what they recommend. And then the other thing that we did is we changed instead of doing one small um you know half classroom we actually did small groups rooms that were much smaller so that they actually
could serve students like four to six students and those exist between the classrooms and that was not only a recommended good practice. It allows for pullouts to happen immediately and not have to go um to a separate part of the building um to get support services, but
it also was the nature of the existing building and the way that it worked out when you created the the um kindergarten and pre kindergarten classroom sizes. There was a nice slot of space left between those two classrooms and it it
just like you know fell into place and made sense. Um uh you have a question. >> Yeah, sorry about that. So So if you could go back to the the initial slide. Yeah. So the the question I have is if
if um so the programs that you guys developed you know obviously was outside of call it you know the MSBA umbrella that you know we're operating under right now for the other project that we're looking at. Um if if this project
decides to utilize MSBA, basically we go back and you know try to bring this program into it. Um would that mean we have to add another classroom? So like right now we're at 20. Okay. >> No. um your they MSBA always puts front and
center the district's educational plan and the part of the educational plan. It's everything from how you're going to teach, what you're going to teach, who you're going to teach, i.e. how you know what age groups and things like that, but it also includes then you get to say your maximum class sizes and and you get
to say what targeting your utilization and things like that. I think that they would start to question if you got like way out of bounds of what industry standard they might question you on it, but one classroom, they're not going to like bat an eye on that. Um, and
especially because I think that there's a a good balance. Like, yes, they had more classrooms, you know, but yet you have more support space and it all kind of balances out. So, it's not like it's it's not out of whack. Um, the other thing I find interesting is they don't
in their standard space summary include things like speech pathology, OTPT, literacy coaches, and things like that, which pretty much every district has. So, there's always those things that are get added. You'll notice that there's some thing line items that are
highlighted in orange or that light orangey color. Those were things that when we met with um uh Superintendent Failen was specifically on the list that must be included. Um some of the other things like the store room for coaches and OTPT that's just general good
practices things you know that in you know our experience we know um always makes sense and people always ask for. So there's some line items that we added um and you know some line items that were specifically requested.
Thanks. And just just a quick followup too. So you know that that the initial question was into quantity of classrooms. The next one is and I think I know the answer just based on the response but just asking it. Um so classroom size. So you know we were carrying under the program 1100 square
ft. That one's you know MSBA was 1,200 square feet. So um you know again because everything's tied into square footage and you know that that that's the baseline of the question. >> So you'll notice over here in the notes it says 1100 to 1300. So we are right we
are still within the limits. Some of the existing classrooms like what you don't see here is we didn't go through and enter every single existing. Some of them are actually below the um 1,100 but the MSBA is very forgiving when it's an existing building especially when it's
like you're less than 5%. It's like okay it was 1075 instead of 1100 nobody's going to like you know make a big deal out of that 25 square ft. The other thing is is that we pulled out the toilet rooms and we designed them as
shared. Like you'd have two toilet rooms side by side that could be used by either of the two classrooms that they sit between. And you'll notice that in theirs it says with above. So 1,200 when you take out like approximately 55 to 60
square feet is actually, you know, 1140. So we're not we're not out of bounds. I find that it's easier to keep track of when you separate the toilet rooms, especially if you start doing toilet rooms for like, you know, students, you
know, other kinds of types of students that are super medically fragile and you need like even bigger toilet rooms. I always like to just list them separate because it allows you to keep track of those kinds of things. That's just my um I guess a little bit uh attention to detail in the way I like to organize
things, but they're they're included in the 1200 for the MSBA. >> All right. Thank you. >> Any other questions on this page? You'll notice that art and music we follow along health and physical education. Um we've just made things smaller, which I
mentioned before. Um media center, ours is much smaller. Um that was discussed with Superintendent Balen. um dining and food service. It's a little bit smaller and it's also distributed. Remember last week I talked about how um by
distributing it, it keeps the little kids from having to go up and downstairs and taking their entire 20-minute lunchtime just getting to the cafeteria area. So, we distributed the dining on all the different floors, um which we've done in precedent projects that we shared. Um medical suite is spot-on.
administration is a little bit less, but you'll notice that the um where it says the teacher work um down there it's with above. So, it's not that it's zero. It's just that I put it in the small learning communities and I like to see that total
and how it um pencils out. So, we put teacher work one on each floor. Um, again, three-story building, wanting to make sure that teachers are supported and are able to to collaborate as well as, um, you know, have access to restrooms and other things like that.
And then the last page is just something that nobody talked about, but every building needs it, and that's that custodial um, you know, um, storage, trash, receiving, you know, uh, those kinds of support, custodial maintenance
functions, which is here. And then you can see our square footage for net square footage is actually a little bit less. Um and then um we have the total square footage here. So one of the interesting things that if
you did go back to the MSBA, they don't actually have standards for prek. Like when you look at the MSBA space summary temp template and anybody can download it off of their website. It under other it will list prek but
there's no formulas there's no like number of students there's nothing in there. So I think it would be a conversation. When I did the numbers up above I treated the prek similar to um kindergarten. I actually use the 18 students um per class, which is what
you'll find in their MSBA formulas and things like that. Um but so it would be a conversation. Uh they do support preK, but how they would support it would be a conversation. The other thing that I would put on here just with zeros, but just as a reminder and maybe get people
thinking, well, what else could we do? The mansion, again, business use, you can bring professionals in there. You could do professional development for your teachers. it could be a destination where you know uh you do uh have people coming from all over the district to to
for for learning. And the other thing that I just wasn't sure of whether we should or should not include was a um security office for a um you know school resource officer or anything like that. Um, I'm not thinking that so much about
the kids acting out and having to put them in detention, but sometime with this age group, it's more about custody and other things like that. Um, it's the parents you have to worry about. Um, but I didn't include it. that there's again you've seen that you have flexibility
that school resource officer also his office like where he sits every day as a professional could be in the mansion even though they may be walking around and observing like drop off and pick up and doing all of the things that somebody like that would do. Their office and locker and that sort of thing could be in the mansion. So I wasn't too
worried about oh does it fit? Um there's plenty of space. >> Nice. So one one other question Janna too. So your grossing factor of 1.43 can you guys talk a little bit uh basically how you arrived at that and essentially
what it is for others that might not be aware. >> Sure. So this is a theoretical program like we're doing calculations to determine how many classrooms based on how many students and how many students per class and all of those kinds of things. And then we were also making
some of the calculations like sizing the staff lunchroom based on the number of staff and that sort of thing. It's theoretical. It's not absolute until you actually start designing it. And especially with an existing building, there will be some ups and downs like some will be bigger, some will be smaller.
You come to a net square footage based on that program. Well then, well, how much how big is your building actually going to be? How much does corridors, walls, mechanicals, stairs, elevators, all those things that are not part of that space program, how much bigger is your building going to be? And you know,
DLR group has been doing schools literally. It was our first sector that, you know, practice sector um school, you know, building type that we ever did 60 years ago. They've literally been building schools and designing schools and evolves evolving and even doing research on best practices in schools
for 60 years now. It has been our um you know just from all of our data sets the 1.43 is an average. Some places go smaller. North Carolina for instance it's 1.37. Some places go larger but the average
between all of them is about 1.43. Now MSBA they allow you to have a grossing factor up to 1.5 which is why you see that number below there. It's a range. like when we actually designed the building and if we were actually to take this to the next step and started really
getting into the nitty-gritty um and sitting with focus groups and all of that, you know, we would want to be within that range of the 8964 and the 94122 for this enrollment. Obviously, if the enrollment goes down, then our number
goes down. But there are some spaces that don't change very much. The kitchen doesn't change very much. The gross motor room doesn't really change. the size of the art room, the music room, all of those kinds of things. There's a lot of the spaces that like, okay, you're either going to have an art room
or you're not. And um so there's a lot of it that stays the same. And by reducing the number of students, it just means that it's um you know, there's more typically more square foot per student. You get greater efficiency the larger the school is. Now, that's not to
say I'm advocating for large schools. There does seem to be a sweet spot though for um you know elementary schools right around between 450 students and 600 students and you know for um prek it's maybe not quite as many
but that's 450 to 600 is actually a really good number to shoot for. Um, so you know, we're with either option two or option three, you're right in the sweet spot. If I could ask just one one other
followup, Janna, too. So, you know, for just thinking outside the box because it may come up outside this meeting uh when a question's asked. So is would there be a possibility in your professional opinion if we were to build option two
as a two-level addition and then sometime in the future add a third level to that you know even though theoretically yes you could do it but practically is that possible >> so I so I just have to say that it's funny that you should ask I have done
that once in my career and it was in Milton [clears throat] >> the Milton medical office building this is just probably like showing you how old I am. The Milton office building was built as a two-story building. The structure was sized to add a third story
and later actually in a very short period of time they came back and we added it. It is because it was planned for it wasn't as difficult as you might think. Now for a population like this it might be scary but it actually wasn't that invasive. We designed everything
such that like literally the columns had everything ready. You just opened up the roof, you set the steel on, you bolt it into place, and it actually went really quick, but it still meant that there was a lot of like noise and, you know, people trumping up and down and and, you
know, scaffolding on the outside so that the contractors didn't have to go through the building and there was a lot. It is possible, but I would honestly, if we were, if you thought you wanted to expand, I would probably work to build beside as opposed to on top.
Um, and maybe even like thinking about like, well, preparing the groundwork or something like that. Like, okay, if we know that we need to build in the hill, well, maybe we build in the retaining wall that becomes the foundation and then that's just a flat area for play until which time you're ready for it. I think you just have to think about,
well, what spaces are we leaving out? Um, and how many of those spaces are we leaving out? Um, little projects are more expensive than big projects on a cost per square foot. Um, you know, so when you go back to build the addition,
how big is the addition? I think would be something that would have to be balanced out very very carefully. It's almost better to shell space like to say, "All right, we're going to build all three floors and then we're just only going to build like these classrooms are not
going to like be built out over here or these spaces over here are not going to be built out." You still got to have egress and all that kind of stuff. But that might actually pencil out better than the other option of building later on. But yes, technically you can do it and I have done it at least once in my
career. Don't recommend it though. [laughter] All right, Peter's got his hand up. >> Trying to do my best to keep an eye on it. >> And [clears throat] and thanks for this presentation. Um, are there any large costs
for the town that are outside the scope of like the the [clears throat] bottom line numbers we're looking at? Um, for example, and and this might be asking something that's a little that's perhaps outside scope of the ask, but I I guess
I'm just raising it in case you or Sean has thoughts on that. But, you know, and and I'm thinking about like large items. Um, you know, for example, perhaps some necessary
construction or changes are triggered at our existing um, elementary schools to deal with shifts in population to the, you know, if there's any changes to kind of um, you know, the kindergarten classrooms
that were no long we'll no longer be using at the other elementary schools. that wouldn't strike me as a relative to these numbers like a major cost, but I was just trying to think of any other sort of items for the conversation, you know, again, perhaps outside this
meeting. Um, if there's any other big items that aren't relative to this property, this address, but to the broader consideration of the town. So, do you want to I mean, I can tell you my first thoughts, but I want to hear I mean, Sean, do you want to start
that or do you want me to It It's honestly things like moving >> and packing up and then repainting and patching, repairing all of the spaces you've just moved out of. >> Yeah. And the the other part of it too
is, you know, I mean, or my test station from um, you know, the existing schools, we're going to be taking all the preK classes out. So those are the,200 square foot classes that if they're going to get turned over into regular classrooms,
then we're going to install walls, subdivide them, and, you know, put that back to like a 900 foot classrooms with additional, you know, professional space or other space there. Um, so that that goes into the kind of that renovation cost to be part of it.
>> Can I just add one more thing there? Yep. >> So when you add those classrooms, you also have to think about operationally who's going to be in those classrooms. >> So that's another consideration because you're adding classrooms to each of those schools. >> Yeah. the staff. You're basically taking
staff and even potentially if you did the three-story option, you'd be increasing staff here and [clears throat] then you would also potentially then need new staff to fill those classroom. >> So yeah, just just to chime in on the existing schools, the intent would be to take existing classes that are operating
in art, music, other converted spaces and putting them back into traditional classrooms and, you know, reestablishing art, music spaces like that that have all taken over. Uh so so it wouldn't be it wouldn't be you know a wholesale uh
addition of staff to to accommodate that is it's basically reallocation within the existing spacesh. >> The other thing Sean I just wanted to ask you because you gave us the factor for the project cost versus construction cost. Where does furniture live? >> Because furniture is not in the
construction cost and we just need to make sure that you know it's covered. Yeah, that was that was that was covered under under the previous the 30% uh okay >> what what we have as as that adder onto
the overall construction cost uh that included FFN. So the the way we arrived at that um just you know just for the committee's understanding too um you know our previous construction cost that we had in July of 2024 was 133 million
construction cost and [clears throat] then we added a 30% adder on top of that which was 40 million. Uh so I know in a email earlier uh this week or I had sent it was 35% it was actually 30%. Um, and
then we got a revised project cost uh in November and Schnaly Sean Burke, you guys might remember this too. As we went through the previous project and did some revisions, >> we're able reduce that construction cost from 133 million down to 128 129
million. Um, so, so just for uh members of the school building committee, that was kind of the the discrepancy on that email that I was sending whether it was a 30% or 35% adder. It should be a 30% adder. So [laughter] just see if others on the
committee have any any questions or comments or anything in general, you know, in regards to the overall programs that we're seeing. >> The only other thing is I wasn't sure when you first >> they were asking the question about other unknowns. The things that always
get you in trouble is something in the soils, hazardous materials like poor soils or contaminated soils or hazardous materials. Those are always the big items from an overall project perspective that can be unknowns um you
know that can send a project you know cause problems with the budget. Nathan, you have your hand up. >> Yeah, thank you. Um let's see. You had mentioned earlier in
the conversation that this sort of project would begin with a demographic study um that would then inform a good deal of the design. I don't know if this is a question for you Janna or for Sean or someone else.
Um we have done a lot of demographic studies that have led to the place that we are today. Would we can can you just talk about like what what of the work we have done is applicable here and where would we need
to do new demographic work and what might that look like that's unique to you know the particular early childhood set of buildings that we're looking at here? like have we done the demographic work we need to do at all to inform this
or would we be kind of starting over? >> I Sean you is probably better able to answer that. I don't know what demographic studies you have done. So, first thing that I would ask is like how old are they and do you feel like now
that you're sufficiently away from COVID that everything is back and do you is there anything that's popped up in the town with regard to housing and other things like that that would skew it? Um, but in a if you went back to the MSBA
then as you know because you've just been through the process they also do their own demographic study and they would tell you what the enrollment is. >> Um, but I don't know Sean do the have you do you feel like the demographic information that is it's recent or maybe I don't know who knows what demographic
how old it is and if you feel comfortable with it. >> Yeah. And John, do you mind stop sharing your screen just so we can view of kind of Yeah. No, no, no, no. Totally fine. And thank you guys. Yeah. So, um, you
know, my my take on that, Nathan, is >> um, you know, we kind of got prescribed this program from school committee in May, I think, late May. Uh, you know, when we started looking at this, we we hadn't really, um, dove in to look at
demographics for any of this stuff. uh for that. Um but I think you know part part of the one thing that kind of pops out to me is you know a lot of this has gone on uh kind of over the summer and you know as you know a number of us are
parents you know we've got other other things going on over the summer. So I think come September October when this stuff hits town meeting it will be you know news to a lot of people. Um I think that the key thing is understanding um from you know a parents perspective
of you know you know transportation wise you know right now prek and k all go to individual you know the four uh elementary schools that we have right now and now it would all consolidate down to here. Um but it it you know so
that's that's one thing for me from a parents point of view we have to touch on you know the demographics end for you know enrollment and what the trending of that looks like we haven't done that yet and then if we go back to MSBA like Jonah said um MSBA would perform that to
look at it um but I think that the key part was is just looking at option two that was that we that was presented you know, basically accounts for where we're at today. Um, and then option three for,
you know, an additional 10,000 or 12,000 square ft or whatever it was basically, you know, provides uh opportunity for us to kind of be a little more future future proof. >> So, thanks Sean, that's helpful. So just to play that back, basically the
demographic studies that we have done to date are are fit for purpose for the MSBA program and the sort of school design we've been considering under that pathway. They can't be really repurposed for this project. We would need to
undertake additional analysis. I mean MSBA would would do their own analysis as you said, but we would want to undertake separate analysis that's specific for um an early childhood design. >> Yeah, correct. So
to kind of to kind of frame, you know, we've had two presentations tonight. One from PMA Group uh and then, you know, one from DLR. And I'm stating this more for you know public or something like that almost as like a you know trying to capture everything that's been presented
tonight. The initial presentation from uh PMA was in regards to our MSBA project. That MSBA project currently right now has three design options that we're looking at and those three approved design options are a addition
renovation to Kikok Cunningham school to accommodate uh approximately 1,400 students. Um a new uh elementary school K to 5 for 495 students or a middle school grades seven and eight with an
enrollment of 660 students. in either of those new builds, there is a preschool component to both of them separate from that enrollment. Um, so if MSA will only allow us to consider properties that are under control of the town at the time
when we're doing this stuff. So right now they won't allow us to consider labor because the town does not own it. If we purchase Labber and then have own it and control it, then we can potentially bring that under the umbrella of MSBA, but it would um
require us to go back to do an enrollment analysis uh to develop that as essentially a fourth option under that umbrella of MSBA. Um, so under that, I think while they would be doing the kind of demographic analysis that Nathan was referring to, uh, we'd also,
you know, kind of do our own homework on on a lot of that stuff, you know, as far as this committee, uh, and mainly because up to, uh, say June, we hadn't considered a K prek school, um, for that. So, we just have we've kind of
been more focused on trying to get this program uh established for what an overall space would look like and then the overall costs associated with that to help inform the select board on this, you know, uh decision that's coming up in the next month.
I hope that helps, Nathan. So, let's see if anybody else has any questions or comments. Seeing none, um, you know, John Shanali, honestly, I want to say thank you. Um, I know this has been a lot of work in a
short amount of time. You know what I mean? >> Um, we we appreciate it. You know, we're looking forward for you guys to attend tomorrow night's select board meeting. Um, you know, as Peter requested previously to have you guys in attendance. I know you guys are planning
on that. I will be remote uh because I'm traveling right now. Um, but Mark Luring will be in attendance with you, >> right? >> Um, so you know, and you know, I'll be working on, you know, if you can get me the kind of final graphic Chanel, I can I can work on getting the uh slide deck
together for tomorrow night. >> Yeah. So, I'll update the PowerPoint with that um when slide change and then I'll I'm also going to send you the draft of the final report so you can pull any other images from there. Um the
the one thing that won't be in that report um is uh the executive summary which will get completed sometime tomorrow or Wednesday and then get you the final report before the end of the week. Um, but you'll have all the images and all the statistics that you need uh
for tomorrow's slide deck. And obviously if you need help, just let me know. >> Yeah, but we I just want to have a qualifier. We've been moving really really fast and so like literally we're still editing. And >> I have not spellch checked anything
yet. I have [laughter] not had time to spell check anything. >> We're still trying to just make sure that we've got everything because we've been in production mode. um over the last two weeks um in a pretty high intensity. So um you know, we're still going back through and doing our own
review um and so we want to make sure that it's right. >> Yeah, I appreciate if the draft that I send you tonight does not go because I'd be we'd like to review it before it goes a little bit more public. >> Want to say as a fellow architect, I thought it was a really good presentation. Very helpful. Thank you.
>> Thanks. Thank you, Glenn. I appreciate it. >> Graphics were great. I'm a graphics guy and the graphics are excellent. So, thank you. >> Thank you. That actually warms my heart. Thank you so much. [laughter] Glad people appreciate it. >> Yeah, one of one of the things I was going to ask, you know, as like a future
ask, but you already had it as one of those slides was like a massing like a 3D if you had something like that of some of those isometrics and you know, really happy to see that you guys have that too. So, again, thank you. And in the report we actually have it just as a plain simple mass
>> for this just this PowerPoint we included so you could see the uses as well but we have it so that everything existing is white and everything new is is a light yellow so that you can just see simply what does it look like how does it compare um so we do have more graphics in the report than what's here
in the PowerPoint. >> Excellent. Thank you. >> Well thank you so much. Appreciate it. Yeah. And and feel free to stay on. We're just going to talk about future meetings and then you know or or feel free to jump off. I know it's starting to get late. And again, thank you for
all your work. >> I actually have to run. I have um family um issue that I have to attend to. >> Thank you. >> See you tomorrow. >> Thank you. >> Bye. >> Bye. >> Thank you. >> All right. So, moving on uh to agenda
item number six, which is our future meetings. Uh so you know we're into August now and you know as uh Jameus and Sean brought up earlier um you know coming up in September uh we're going to start getting um you know designer submittals in because of u things
hitting the streets. So um ideally what I'd probably like to do is just map out you know the remainder of this month you know and you know see what people's schedules are like for this. Um, it's probably best to, you know, well,
Sheamus, if if you want to kind of lead just from, you know, the slides that you guys had before. Yep. >> Or, you know, the dates that you're kind of anticipating. Like I said, we'll just aim in August right now and then we'll get to September, you know, at our next meeting. >> So, uh, of course, we we don't have to
meet before RFS packages are due. um we can provide updates on the distribution list and anything um by then so that there's no um need to meet before the 9th. Um of course we would like to meet
to finalize the uh the sinus election like subcommittee group um either before the 9th or sometime shortly after. It'd also be useful just once we receive all the proposals, just kind of give everyone an overall summary
of all the presentations we received. Um, so I'd like to have a meeting with the the whole board before the 17th of September, which is when we have to get all of our re review materials over to the MSBA. Um, that way we can kind of
give this committee the full picture of all the all the proposals we received and all of our reviews before we send it over to the MSBA. Um, and then >> at some point in mid to late September, we'll meet with the or honestly maybe
just the week before the designer selection panel just meet with the um the subcommittee of those members and just to discuss the uh designer selection panel process. Those would be kind of the next two meetings that we
I'd want to target. >> All right. So, take taking it one at a time. So, I think the the intention is to get the the the designer panel subcommittee set so they hit the ground running on the 9th. You know, as Sean mentioned, when when those packages
arrive. Um so and then we also have a site meeting that you know it's not required of the entire committee or even the subcommittee uh on the 18th. Uh so what I would propose just just the members to see you know August 24th um
have another meeting hopefully just a quick check-in um finalize what that designer selection committee would be that's 3 weeks from tonight um and and then you know have the representatives there. I think at that time, you know,
we can have I'm assuming we'll have a representative. I'm assuming school committee and probably select board would have a representative similar to the makeup of how how the school building committee is made up now. Um and that may give time to those other committees to kind of um define who
those members are and then potentially for that subcommittee um um have um that follow meeting, you know, with with you guys, Sean and Sheamus. So So just just for for members that are
here, just looking at [clears throat] the 24th, um just throw it out there to see if that works for for Anyone most or not? >> Good with me. [clears throat]
>> 10. >> Glen, that was [clears throat] Nathan, I think. Glenn 24th, please. >> I'm good. Sorry for my button. >> No, it's all good. Uh, Scott, I >> think I'm good.
>> All right. Uh, Rob, >> I'm good. I can make it. >> Okay, thank you. Cool. Scott Terish. >> Yeah. Uh, it's fine with me. 24th. >> All right. Tim Lumbard, if you can hear me. >> Uh, I'm available at that time. I can
hear you. And hopefully you can hear me. Every time I hit pressed one of these buttons earlier in the meeting, I lost everything. >> Oh, good. You're good. Um, okay. And I think make sure I get everybody on there. Peter Shaw
N and Nathan said, "Yep." So, um, yeah, the same for the 24th for our next meeting and, you know, check in and we'll get the the design of selection subcommittee done at that one and just, uh, you know, just have a quick check in
with PMA to see kind of see where we're at. Um, >> say that again. >> No, I just said okay. >> Okay. Sorry about that. All right. So, 24th it is. All right. Uh if anybody
else, unless anybody else has anything else on future meetings, we'll move on to our final agenda item, which is adjournment. So, I'd open uh entertain any motions to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjurnn.
>> Second. All right. Nathan. All right. Any discussion? Hearing none. I got to admit that was the longest time it ever took to get a motion to adjourn, I think, out of any public meetings. So, we'll do a roll call vote of, you know, everybody we got
here. So, uh, Nathan Hut, >> yes. >> Scott Terishek, >> yes. >> Uh, Mark Luring, >> yes. Uh, Peter Robashmer, >> yes.
>> Tim Lumbard, >> yes. >> Glenn Hoffman, >> yes. >> And myself, yes. Thank you guys very much. Have a good night. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Bye. >> Thanks everyone.