Good evening and welcome to the 51st meeting of the fiscal year 2025 of the Milton Planning Board. I would like to now call the meeting to order and begin by introducing the members here this evening. Um and our staff um this evening uh we do not have Shan Fehey or
Jim Davis. Uh so it'll be the three of us here in person. Um if you'd like to introduce yourself, Cheryl. Yes. Uh Cheryl Tagaya, secretary, Maggie Yieldfield, member and Meredith Hall serving as chair. And on Zoom tonight, we have our staff. We have Cheyenne,
Cheyenne Frasier, assistant director of planning. Great. And Julia, Julia Gman, clerk. Great. Thank you. Um, we can begin by the with the administrative items. Um, Cheryl had sent over one set of minutes.
Um, but we're going to defer those until our July 10th meeting. Um so everyone has a chance to just review those and um and then we'll probably have another set as well to approve on the on July 10th which brings us to the um next meeting
dates. July 10th um is a regular scheduled meeting and then we will have a a following regular scheduled meeting on the 24th of July. So, we can keep those um dates in mind. And then um Cheyenne, any staff update that you
might have? Um no big updates. Just to note, uh the July 24th meeting is going to be a joint meeting or a joint public hearing with the tree warden. We're going to have about two scenic road applications coming up for that. So, that's what we have on the agenda for
that day. Okay, that's that's great. Um, can I just um say something? Um, so I've been receiving some um emails and comments about when um I join via Zoom
and a few months ago I did um reach out to the assistant town administrator because a lot of times I mean I'm at work when I join my Zoom and so I do have my work um I'm on my work computer. So, a couple months ago, um Nick
Connor's um um gave me some information and then Nick Milano just followed up with it again yesterday. So, I just wanted to let people know that um that there is not
any rule prohibiting the practice of having any particular display name and that the open meeting log guide on remote participation only lists two minimum requirements. And um one of the requirements is that a
member of a public body who participates remotely and all persons present at the meeting location must be clearly audible to each other and two that all votes taken during a meeting in which a member
participates remotely must be by roll call vote. So other than that, there's no um um any um requirements to have any particular um name displayed as as well
as there's no particular requirements to have um your camera on either. So just some information for the public. Good. All right. Thank you. Um so uh yes. So then um we can move now then um to
citizen speak um if there's anyone here in the public which we don't have anybody tonight um or on Zoom you can raise your hands um and let us know that you would if there's something you would like to say no hands on Zoom okay great so then we
can now move to item four of the um of our agenda discussion of the budget and vote Um and Cheyenne if you want to just um introduce this um with the uh our budget that's remainder and
options for us. Sure. So about a couple weeks ago um Nick and I had a meeting about where the planning board budget stood. Um and we have about it's between 19 and 24,000. We still have to pay one more bill for UTL and we'll have a final
estimate. But we were throwing out some ideas of what that remaining balance could be used for since fiscal year does end uh Monday. So we reached out to a couple people and got quotes and I'll I'll put that up on the screen. But um
so far the quote that we have that's the leading one is for the economic feasibility study. Um and that's going to be through MEPC and that'll fit right into our budget. Great. So Cheyenne, would we encumber all um the just the total amount of
funds for that project in case it slightly goes over? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that would be that'd be a full chunk. Okay. And is that something um we'll obviously vote on it tonight. Does that have to be submitted or sent in? Um
I would think tomorrow morning. Yeah. So Nick didn't say specifically when, but we do need to have a vote on it. So we can't go forward. So preferably send that in by tomorrow, Monday the latest. Okay, great. So I think that we would I I know doing an
economic feasibility study is something we are required to do to get to raise our um our percentage to the 15% which was in the drafting uh article 6 language. Um, Nick also felt like there may be an opportunity to
actually increase that even a little bit higher with with that study and we'd have to go back to town meeting and amend that um if it does increase above 15%. But that's certainly something I think our board has always um said was important that we do. So I would
entertain a motion before we vote on it. I just uh I found the scope of work to be um comprehensive and I think it'll be very helpful not just for this zoning. I was thinking it could be beneficial for
the Milton Village when when we were uh speaking about talking about potential other zoning articles to work on. It made me think it's been 5 years since we passed that and we've had no applications come in. And so I was wondering whether
um Cheyenne and Nick could speak to MAPC to see if this um study and and this could be added later um if it's necessary to get this out the door tomorrow, but look at Milton Village zoning as well. I mean, it looks like
they might be looking at um that anyway from reading the scope, but it would be interesting to see if they felt as if there was any economic reason in that zoning that we weren't seeing any applications. Mhm. Yeah. So, I kind of
was wondering something similar um because this specifically says for um 3A. So, I was wondering if that could be um more than just 3A. You
know, our our um you know, we are the board that's responsible for zoning. And as we all know, this um the the citizens petition, the the MBTA article was put forward by the citizens petition, but we are
responsible for zoning. Um, so I was wondering if we could expand it because under the narrative section, um, it did just talk about a preferred policy option. So, I was wondering if that could be elsewhere, too. I wasn't
thinking specifically, um, um, um, down in the village, but um, I mean, it could even be East Milton Square because, you know, we could wait to see how whether we 5 years and nothing comes in. But while they're doing the work, while they're looking at everything, it
it makes sense. I don't want to hold this up, but if there's time to think about an amendment or if it's in embedded in here somehow, um then uh it would be I think very valuable to us to get sort of pull that
information out just as you said, Maggie, not so specific to 3A because they're looking at the town anyway from what I understand from their data gathering. Yeah. So I think that would be a good followup. Yeah, I think that would be a very good follow-up question. I think perhaps the reason why they
address the 3A is because it's a requirement of 3A to do this. So I think at this time this I agree with both of you, but maybe at this time I this um the way it reads is Yeah, the way it reads I I would make a motion, but I would like to ask Cheyenne to speak to
Nick and see if they can speak to MAPC about even having um an amendment to this. um that could come in our next fiscal year budget, you know, which starts July 1st. Um while they're doing all this data gathering, it seems like it would be a small ad rather than coming back and
doing it separately as a separate contract. Um so does that make is that agree you agree with that, Maggie? Yeah. Okay. Yep. All right. So, I'll I'll make a motion to um approve the use of the
remaining planning board funds up to the $20,000 uh for the um proposed scope of working and cost for a 3A technical assistance for the town of Milton for the economic feasibility analysis
um per the MAPC proposal. Right. And encumbering all funds. I think we encumbering all funds. All the remaining fiscal year funds. All fiscal year funds. Yeah. Is really what we Okay. need the vote on. Second. Okay. All in
favor? I I Great. Perfect. Thank you. Um and then anything else? Any Cheyenne? Is there anything else you wanted to add to any of the um any budget um conversation? Um, that was primarily No, but I'll I'll
type up an email and get those um the future amendments out to Nick so you can get to those while we're on budget items. So, we have the next fiscal year starting and we have $50,000 um and I think we're going to talk about
some potential zoning, but I was um recalling and I was thinking maybe if Cheyenne doesn't have it at her fingertips that she could get it for us. the codification that we've all we've talked about for some time. Um there's at least the level
of codification to to address the comments that the consultant had put forth and some of it had to do with just bringing it current with state law. Um correcting some inconsistencies and I I personally think putting uh
tables in so it's easier to use. Um, we've had turnover at the building department or and in the planning department and our zoning bylaw is not it's not the way many are written and it's not easy to review and I think it
makes it takes more time from staff and it takes more time for us and applicants and we even have seen where there's been mistakes in waiverss etc because the the bylaw is just so uh out of date. So Cheyenne, you don't happen to have the
figure. I know Tim had said there's a range for this and there's consultants who would the same consultant could do it that that did the original or the initial codification. And the other question I have about the codification is what about the
maintenance of it? So now we've passed zoning articles. Is there funding in some other budget to put that into the e-code system, the online system? I can't tell if those both work for me, but um I can again write up an email um
about the figures and the maintenance for that. And I actually had a conversation with Sue Galvin today along this line um and Kathleen also um on this and that it is really important and it's we've done the big piece of it
by um by having it um now electronic that you can access. But really the part of the conversation was you know there's there's a lot of consultants that write zoning but really we should have an attorney looking at it. Um, so I I think we could put this on as a thought on the
agenda on cotification on what our approach is um with who would who we would have to do it. And then you're right, we we would want to have a a maintenance system because it hasn't really been well I want to make sure that these the articles that just passed
are going to be put into the e system, the e-code system because the problem we had for as you know for a long time was people would get the PDF version of the zoning bylaw and then they'd have to go to Sue Galvin to get all the amendments that were made since that was pat last updated and that was years and I'd hate
to for us to have the e system be in the same place and I'm wondering We did have a meeting um where Sue Galvin participated and I'm thinking invite her and also Kathleen is the chair of the ZBA and if the building official wants
to come as well because I really do think u there's a all of these folks interface with the zoning not just us right I think there is a lot of a lot of cleanup work that needs to be done so there isn't there isn't some type of it
the program does not allow for just to input new zoning for it to somehow get absorbed like our IT department couldn't somehow scan and put we should invite Sue Galvin I think to to ask her about
that process now that it is electronic how how that is um and if we if we need to set aside budget for that it would be good to know now u as we plan for that's one of the things I talked to Nick and Cheyenne about that we would want to have some funding and and on budget it
too. One of the things that I had mentioned um is um there is now in Judy Barrett's office somebody who actually came from the Mass Historical Comm the Massachusetts Historical Commission and is been hired
um to to work in Judy Barrett's planning department. One of the things that I was thinking because we sort of have we have the local historic district committee and I think as the planning board we could help facilitate this um moving
forward is to have somebody with that experience from Mass Historical who would be able to consult with the town to to explain it. I think the committee because this is so new there's a lot of questions that have that came out. I know different boards were weighing in.
Um, but maybe having some funding, having somebody with the background who could actually help to um to move that local historic district um moving forward to town meeting and and being able to help explain it to town meeting because it is something very new. Most
towns have it um and I think it would be a very good tool for planning um and protection of our historic assets. So, I think um possibly we had talked about doing that and her name is Jennifer and I'm just forgetting her last name from Mass Historical, but she just recently
what is it again? Jordy. Jordan. Jordan. No, Jordy. D O H E R. Jennifer Dhy. Yes. Yes. So, she's very talented. I mean, I know she's very highly respected and I don't know what it like if it was a minimal, you know, a small
amount, it might be worth having just outside help to facilitate this moving towards um a an article that would be that town meeting would understand and and support and she has experience with all the different towns. So, I think
that also would be helpful because that that committee doesn't have funding. You're saying that committee, right? they were a study committee. But so you're suggesting that the the planning board engage with them, but it would be
in support of that committee's work. It would it would be the planning department. It would come from the planning department's funding. So I think we don't really have to we I wouldn't want to get really too in the weeds with it because I think this committee was set up to do that work. But I think that they may need they may
need help and it might make sense the way sometimes we've funded an EMPIC project for example or some other things that um that that money um may go towards and it could be Empic funding too because that's part of um
the work that you all have been doing too. So, we can talk. I'm just I think it's a good idea just from way back when when the committee was first started, they came to our neighborhood,
Hillside Neighborhood Association meeting and our neighborhood has a lot of historic houses and our my neighbors are really concerned about it. But all the questions that they were asking a committee member at that time, um, just
like you said, it was so new that the committee member couldn't really answer the questions that the neighborhood association had. And it was a little bit unfortunate because then the neighborhood sort of um you know was a
little bit turned off from having it but mostly because we didn't have the questions answered so it might be helpful to have somebody who is more knowledgeable um um to to come and talk to neighborhood associations and I don't
even know if they have been doing that type of work because she's new in Judy Barrett's department but I think that's part of the reason why she was hired was to look at tools in planning um for historic preservation. So I think it's worth Cheyenne having a conversation.
Are are you you jointly having a conversation with that? Um I had emailed her yesterday. She got back to me. Um and this is just like a little thing. She just had to make a call to the ethics commission. She noted that while she was working at Mass Historical Commission, she was involved with our
work with building village district proposal. So before we fully engage with her, she would have to check if she can even do that. Okay. I didn't know she was involved with our h the Milton village. Okay.
Okay. Um great. So that was just another thought that but we should be thinking about things that we would want to maybe um be able to to look at. Um so one thing I I want to mention too is um the master plan implementation committee um
has a $30,000 allocation and I asked Nick to include that in the contingent budget because the committee um as you know is getting ready to make its report. Um and in the report we're um going to recommend some targeted updates
and so we wanted to have funds available for that targeted for those targeted updates. So um the last time the master plan was done a committee um was established by the planning board. It was um chaired by Emily Andis. You
remember Emily from planning board in those days? Um, I was on the committee before being a member of the planning board. Um, I think there were like 14 people, so it was a pretty big committee, you know, pretty extensive. I don't think that we need that large a
committee to update it, but I just want to put that out there for something to be thinking about in this coming fiscal year. Um, the final report will go out um, you know, in time for the fall town meeting. We're still working on it. So
we owe a update to the planning board and to the select board if Yeah. If you wanted us to put aside a meeting for you all to present probably at the I'm thinking September because maybe we do a joint I don't know if it will be joint planning board and select board to hear the presentation or if we if you rather
yeah maybe go separately but we can see if if that works you know if they would want to do that. Um so just put just u putting that on the uh radar screen for um this coming year fiscal year. Great.
Good. Thank you Cheyenne for following up on that um just giving that information that would be great to have. So um because those were things on the list that I was thinking of as well. Um so the next item on our agenda was just
to talk about because I we've dedicated so much time to the MBTA um zoning that we now have time to actually look at some of the things that we've I know that have been on our list codification being one of them recottification
um but we also I know the cut and fill um you all have mentioned there was a landscape and updating to the maybe the landscape um zoning and um and certainly
I had also mentioned um that I had talked to Tim Zwinsky and he provided me what he had written up in 2015 and I can circulate that to the board members to take a look at that because he had really gone through and put a thoughtful
um update to the to the signage language that just he left to go to Boston and nothing ever happened with it. So, but we have it from 2015 and I I think it was very good. I in looking at it, one of the things that it addresses um is
billboards. We all know that there was the big petition and um where there was a billboard possibly going to go into two at two granite and I think that was something that there was tremendous um opposition to and this way you don't
have to fight it with a petition. It's already in the zoning language. The other thing, um, we're starting to see a lot of, um, things that had not ever been allowed before, but now because they're not in our zoning, we cannot, we can't just, it's difficult to defend
saying no. Neon signs being one of them. And then also even internally lit signs um such as the Santandere which I know East Milton residents really dislike um and find it to be a
really offensive um and not not um contributing to the aesthetics of the town. There's also you you're starting to see little neon lights, placards going up on different restaurants, whether it says open or different little things um going up, but and also the new
gas station the the gas station um on B on um Bryant Street, they just applied um and went to for a new electronic digital sign. So the way the other one that was also very controversial. So these are things
that other towns have that you can just say no because you know there's another way to do lighting when when I go to Santandere in other towns they have cute hor you know the gooseeneck lights and a wooden sign and it's it can be done differently and I think that's sort of
our our goal and sort of the look that we're wanting our town to have. So that would be one but I would be open to you all um your thoughts too. Um so uh what you would like to look at I
um I think we have to be realistic too about how much we're going to be able to get done. Um, and you know, with Cheyenne leaving and Tim's position open, but I do think it's worth having a list and kind of thinking about how it
could be done, whether committee with whether board members can do it or whether uh we would seek some kind of a ad hoc, you know, committee like was we haven't taken advantage of that in some time, but I know like the first um
involvement I had in Milton was serving on a committee through the planning board. Um it was a study committee for Temple Shalom and so they had looked for volunteers with certain kinds of um skill sets. So that's something we could think about as a way to help advance
some of the ideas. I did have a couple of things that um I wanted to add and that was I mentioned um during the ADU discussion about how we should look at our setbacks um for accessory structures. Um and then also um with
MBTA community thinking about our F and our open space that doesn't exist um in our single family for sure, but we should look at whether um there's any other parts of the zoning bylaw where we would want to add F and open space
requirements. Um so those I think are not big lifts. Um, and then another one that had been on my radar screen and when thinking about the 40Bs, two of the 40Bs where there's historic homes and historic properties,
they weren't of a size that meets the condo conversion bylaw, which is 5 acre minimum. So, those were like less than 5 acres. And I wonder if it would have been more if it would have been attractive if they could have gone in under the condo conversion. So I think
we should look at reducing that minimum lot size from 5 acres down to something less. Um so I don't think that's a big lift either. I think we there's some work that had started on that. I think we had asked Alan Bishop to get generate
a list of properties that had historic homes on properties that were less than 5 acres. And I I think we might have that list or that information somewhere um in the planning department or in the GIS department. Just to clarify, do we
have currently um any we do have a condo conversion bylaw? Yeah, but on five acres or more. So it's on more but none like none by special permit or variance. There's none existing. I just I'm trying to visually see. Yeah, I don't I don't
recall if it's special permit. It probably is special permit. Um because I don't think that's an as of right currently because we didn't have any as of right multif family. So it's I'm sure the current is
a special permit but I think the burough estate maybe may have been that has a lot of acreage. But if you think about like the 582 blue hill a forget the name of that name of that yes if you think about that that is
CL that would have been a perfect example if you could have had if that could have been converted instead of what's happening with the 40B right so I I just remember thinking like we should be thinking about ways if if we still
thinking about MBTA communities but we're still susceptible to 40bs and what are developers is going to look for. It kind of depends what's the best economic opportunity. So, um, yeah. So, I'm not necessarily saying I like don't agree with it, but I just in my head I'm a
visual person. I was just trying to think where in town do we already have some that's not Burr? Cuz I always go to Bur. I don't know which ones, but I was thinking we could ask Allan to pull that. He's already done it. I think it's just that it's been a long time and I I
uh honestly would have to see if I have it in my record someplace. Um and I'm not saying that that's something that we absolutely should do, but it's something I feel we should look at. Yeah. Um again, kind of giving an an alternative
to the 40B that that was I don't want to forget I because I did that was part of my conversation too with Cheyenne and Nick is the housing production plan is something that we want to fund. Right. We is that coming from our funding? That would come from our funding, too. And I don't want to interrupt you and what you're saying. I just wanted to put a
placeholder. That's good, too. Yeah. Um because we did um I think Cheyenne, you were reaching out to um the woman who did the last two updates to the housing production plan and I think she still is doing the work. Yeah. So, she was
interested. Um, Nick was talking to her and I was talking to some other people because I had sent in like a like a question to the planner listister and we had gotten a couple quotes which is why we couldn't do it in this budget cuz they were coming in around like 30
40,000 and higher. Um, and we only had about 20. So, um, we're looking into the woman who did the past ones and her budget on that. She was a lot less expensive than that cuz I served on that committee. That's what and she's already done the work. So we have it's really
just updating the work that she's already done. So that's why I was I think when it was Karen um yeah that's yeah cuz I was just looking at she's still doing it and interested and Katie Conlin had mentioned that that
we should she was I was I worked on that committee with Katie and Melinda Collins and uh Karen was very nice to work with. Yeah. uh and good and got the work done in sorry uh what was the name of the person who did that work?
Karen Sun and Borg. Okay, thank you. So yeah, so we're following up on that as well and that would be something that obviously is really important especially if it allows us to be in safe harbor depending on Right. Okay.
Okay. So please continue. Sorry. Oh. Um, the last thing I had was our rules and regs. Um, and that doesn't require zoning obviously. So, uh, but remember like our roadway section, it's a very wide roadway. It requires sidewalks on both side. If we go back, we had this
list of variances. I think I forgot now who put it together. Um it may have been one of uh Lauren Massier when she was here but how many variances like or waiverss we had granted on things in our permitting
and it's not very um up to date with respect to um low impact kind of like whether we use rain gardens or other things. It's not just piped and storage kind of of storm water. We would want to
work with the um um engineering department you know on on aspects of that I think but those haven't those components of it I mean the rules and rights have been updated a little bit but those components of it haven't been updated probably for
decades and they really are out of date and especially since we've just done the site plan our our new site plan review um approval process some of those things we did put in rank you know certain things that we would be asking for um on especially sustainability um
right but if that's under MBTA but if we had that consistent throughout like there was um Marina had come to us at one point or maybe her predecessor and said that to to be compliant with I think it was EPA
or D requirements that there were some things that we needed to do um in our rules and rags and and probably in our zoning and it's just maybe when Josh was here too, it's just there's been no followup again with some of the change
over. So, that was something else I thought would be important for us to to try and put some time into. Yeah, I think that's great. And that's that's it for me. Yep. Yep. They all sound good. I I mean,
basically, I was sort of focused on the F. I think that's a really um important important one. Yeah. And the uh open space um you know and light of everybody's properties getting smaller
and coming off COVID even though it's been 5 years we've all learned the importance of open space and distance from each other. So, I think that's important and um just having trees, you know, being on the climate action
committee um just, you know, um the importance of trees and um helping reduce the heat island effect. So I think that's so so Maggie on the trees, you know, Boston has been
um revising um their requirements um in a number of different places, but the places I'm more familiar with on projects. So if a applicant's coming forth with a project, they have to
document as we do the existing trees, but also the caliber of trees. I think starting at 6 in and higher the and and then total them and then the whatever their their replacement is if there's a difference if it's less then there has
to be a contribution to trees to another part of the city to make up the difference so that there's no net loss in tree canopy. Um, so I think if you wanted to look at their policies, I can send you uh some links because I I've
been um copied on some of those recently. And one of the other things I I think you and I spoke about before, but I forgot to li list was lighting in terms of and and I don't know if that would be a zoning bylaw or in our um our rules and rags, but it seems like we
continually have to like um each application kind of go through the same thing like if there's a standard that we want them to use, if a standard pole height we want to use, the kind of design character that is preferred um particularly like on the street tree,
I mean a street light. Um, we should update that too. Mhm. And that's another probably maybe some DPW input too, right? Yeah. So, are are there departments that can take the lead on
some of these things, not just us starting fresh? is are there can we ask the DPW or ask engineering to look into what other towns are doing and and create you know a sample bylaw and then
you know have it come from the department itself so then they're invested in it as well. So, one thing that when um Denny was on the board and she and I worked with Tim uh Josh or Tim and um I think Marina on oh no Joe
Pondac actually on um a bit on cut and fill when she was on the working on the tree one. Um so it's like a little ad hoc committee. So maybe these which required DPW um
and I'm hoping that we will get fully staffed um so that we can get staff support for it too and maybe we'll just going to have to prioritize but I think it's good to put the list together and see which ones are take sort of right I don't know
low hanging fruit as it's called in the master plan you know take those and those that are going to take more work and more collaboration. You know, they they may not get started right away. Yeah. Because if the staff is involved in the department that gets
the phone call, you know, then they they they're wellversed in it and because they've helped create the bylaw. Um and and they see it every day, you know, they can say, "Oh, this might work. This doesn't work." Or, "I've seen it work
better here." So just having some buyin from the department could be helpful. Well, and having again having things like in a like if the DPW
um and the planning department both take ownership of certain things that are in like storm water goals, then um if questions do come up, it it should be easier to answer for the applicants
before they get to us. Yeah. Right. in their premeating, right? It just streamlines it. Yeah, I think that's a good list. Um, and we can, you know, start to be thinking about that and and what grant money will
be coming in. You know, I know Nick is, you know, pursuing some things. I think do we have a are we putting any um grant requests together for the housing production plan or is that maybe um last time I checked
you had applied for one um but to do it out of the budget. Okay. Yeah. Especially if we can get that cost reduced. That seems like that would be something we have to do soon in the feasibility study obviously. So, but
this is a good a good list. So, if there's anything else that people think of, you know, we can I'd like to get clarity sooner rather than later on the maintenance and the updates on the e-code and also on the the codification just uh if we it sounds like I mean that
between that and the housing production plan. I mean, one of those things if if you're looking at those could take up most of our budget, which would be I I'd like to make sure that we could get codification. We've been talking about it for many years now. I mean, We finally did get the codification which is great but the it's important to
maintain it. So none of that would come from um just not the planning board budget not shouldn't it come from I would hope so but you know from either the building department or overall general government. I feel like this is
general government. Mhm. Who do we also have to do because the general bylaws also have to be done not only Yeah. So I think you know maybe Sue Galvin and Nick Milano but come to Yeah, we should have I mean they could be asked about where which budget it should sit in. I agree with you like
just an update to what's been passed or taking and updating the e-code from articles that we passed shouldn't be a planning board budget item. But we never we didn't get the when we did the codification some of the funds
came from the clerk's office budget. So, uh, so maybe some of this could be split, which would be helpful, but that might have been for the general bylaws actually. Well, let's we'll have that. Yeah, I think that's So, would it actually come
from the planning board budget or the planning department? They don't have a large budget. You see? Yeah. I Yeah, I would think it shouldn't come from ours because ours is is to really intended to do planning. Yeah. Mhm.
Right. But I think at the time that we did the codification before we offered it to the clerk because we were so interested in getting it done also. Yeah. That it wasn't going to happen otherwise. So, one thing I sort of was thinking of,
if we're still, you know, in the process of reviewing applica applications for um the town planner position, would we ever um expand our um our search to include
possibly um an attorney? So we know that you know Cheyenne went to attended law school and zoning is all legal just like you had said. Would um it be helpful to
have somebody um with a background in law to help write a lot of this zoning language. Um so I know that you know it's been said
that it's been challenging to to get someone with planning purposes I mean planning experience but you know Milton is um pretty much built out as you know we've all noticed through this whole
MBTA process would it be helpful to have an an attorney on staff in the planning department to help write all this language. You know, we just talked about how many? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 10 possible
updates to our zoning and our budget is limited. And if we had somebody on staff um who can write language, what a savings that would be. You know, we wouldn't have to be going out. So, I don't know if we the legal aspect of it,
but the planning aspect of it, right? So if you think about like the the kinds of applications we may get under the MBTA communities, it's more on the planning side like how you're taking the
standards that we put in and the um submission requirements and all of that. I' I'd rather have like a design professional really looking at all of that more than because it's it would be an attorney's would be looking at it for you know
does it meet that and we would be looking at it you know we would want somebody like looking at it saying well the board's you know been consistent about thinking about these things as being important which are a little bit more subjective in some ways I mean I realize we have to be very objective in
the MBTA communities But we still have special permits that um could come in under other parts of the zoning code where um I think it's one thing I'll say too is the ZBA is entirely
attorneys and the Kathleen as the chair is interested in working more with the planning board, right? Um, and so, um, I think getting taking advantage of
of their expertise could maybe be something that's available to us now that we didn't have available to us before. So, I have a question. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Um, are we taking comments from people in the audience? Because Kathleen has her hand raised. Ah, because I'm talking
about her. She raises her hand. Yes. Yeah. So, my only concern um so I agree maybe um maybe our assistant planner could have some architectural backgrounds
um for design um help. So maybe being a little bit more um expansive in that um description too cuz I agree with you that a lot of it does come a project can
look better if it's designed appropriately and it would be get more acceptance in a neighborhood if it um fits in architecturally and stylistically wise within each neighborhood. So I understand um that
point. Um my only question though about um um working with the ZBA um is and again I don't really have the answer and maybe I'm off base but is it
appropriate? I sort of view the the ZBA as sort of the um you know they're the judges sort of and they make decisions on um on projects or
plans or properties. Um, and is it appropriate for them to sort of be in or have a have a say in what is being written legally
and then they're then adjudicating on it later. It's sort of like a separation. Historically, it's been a separate separate. Yeah. So, it's a separation of powers kind of thing. And maybe, you know, with all that's been going on, I'm
a little bit more sensitive to that. Um, so again, maybe that's just a question for down the line that if if the ZBA is going to be making decisions, they're supposed to be viewing each project
individually on the merits of that project. and are can they view it that way if they have a hand in writing writing it. So it's like the legislature verse the courts. Yeah. I don't know um
if if that's the way the ZBA is. I know that's some people's view of the ZBA. Yeah. But I would be interested to hear what Kathleen has to say since she has her hand raised. Yeah. I Yes. cuz I I viewed Kathleen coming as an individual and an attorney but not representing the
ZBA when when she came when we were working on the ADU and the site plan. Um and yeah, and she was very helpful. Very helpful. Yes. So, but it wasn't as the Yeah. Anyway, let's um Kathleen, welcome. You can please feel free to comment. Thanks.
Um I just wanted to say that um tell people Meredith does know this but um we were interviewing potential town councils this afternoon and that was one of the questions that we asked the town potential candidates was the services
that they would provide to the planning board and to the ZBA and um and it's sort of a change in um in philosophy of the use of town council um but one of the firms interestingly said that um
they prefer to do the drafting of zoning articles themselves. They they're not very happy about having a consultant do it and then have to back and fix it up which was I said funny um because I mean I consultants would be saying god the
last thing you want to have is lawyers from the beginning um and and with some justification. Um so so that I do think that going going forward um is is the potential to be sort of looking for more
assistance underneath the town council services not as an extra job. Um to have the town council be more helpful in drafting zoning at least taking a look at it at at you know earlier than they normally do um than they have in the
past. And going to Maggie's point about the fact that the ZBA is a judicial sort of situation. Um my friend um a friend in Cohassid um as chair of the zoning board um did a recontification of all the zoning bylaws in Cohassid
um and he didn't he is not a lawyer but he didn't see any reason why the ZBA couldn't have a word to say or not a lot of words about how the how the zoning code looked. And so I don't think that um I don't think that our participation
in it is sort of looking to see what um what zoning might be proposed and and actually coming to you guys and saying, you know, we I think we're running into this trouble all the time about this one particular thing and looking back to you folks to say, you know, is there
something you could do about this? you know, we keep we keep getting variance requests for this random thing that should be fixed and and so I think there should be more sort of back and forth between the two boards than there is than there has been in the past.
Great. Thank you. And a couple of the firms also um have addressed the the recontification and have gone through the entire zoning bylaws and and cleaned it up. So there there are um some firms
that do have that experience with doing the town's codification recall. So while we're speaking I did think of another one that I had worked on when with Brian Furs when he was on the board which is the pre-existing non-conforming uses. So
that would be like our 7-Elevens that um and there's a I think um a few other businesses in other locations that were business before they were the zoning was
enacted and um we've lost business uses in other parts. when the business use ends um it reverts then to the underlying zoning which was this single family that was overlaid over everything and you
know one thing I think you'll remember from the the ice house days was that people still today say there's not enough amenities on the west side of Milton and um there used to be some but
then they've been lost. Oh, the other one I'll say I guess is Franny's Corner, which is uh at, you know, the um equipment and gas station, you know, um it's being converted into a little um
market, a little uh right, but I don't know if you So, that's just another one of those. So you think about it, it's the same kind of thing that we have run into where these some of these exist by special permit and then if they want to change
things, they have to go to the ZBA and some of it might be triggered to come to us. And it's again one of those things that we said was should be cleaned up. It should be easier if we want to. Many people in town think we should be um
they want businesses here. they want to be able to stay in Milton for certain things, but we heard um from some that it's not easy and and part of it is the permitting. So, the pre-existing non-conforming um and Kathleen, that's probably another
one where the ZBA should weigh in too because that one um is falls under your the ZBA's jurisdiction probably more than the planning board because of the of the zoning. That's true. Yeah. Mhm. So, so my recollection though with um that's when
I sort of started paying attention. I think that was back in like 2014. Um with the pre-existing non-conforming business uses was um I thought it was a great idea, but I thought um if I
remember correctly, it was um expanding. So it kind of I think stalled a little bit um because they were uh they were looking at other neighborhoods. So it became a bigger um thing to wrestle with
instead of just really focusing on the existing businesses as they were. I mean cuz that's when that was sort of a problem that I had with part of the conversation that was going on that it
was um I felt uh it in that it was um it was more looking for expansion than actually preserving and and helping the businesses that were there currently um to maybe loosen up some of their
restrictions. Um so so I agree I I would support looking at some pre-existing non-conforming businesses, but I and I also think about whether we should think look at neighborhood business as a as an allowed use in certain places. And that's going to take some public
outreach and some work, but people have been asking for it. I I um or at least have been interested in it. When they when it starts is to look at how that might work, I don't we'll see. But um
there's I mean it's a it's a component of not having to be get in your car to go get a quart of milk or, you know, something like that. Um there's um the idea that was also I think floated
at one time is um where you can have the idea I think when what that uh pre-existent non-conforming was it was to allow mixed use. So it's kind of that idea where you can have housing above and have the business on the ground floor. Um
it's just another way to expand the type of housing that that was before ADU and before MBTA. So whether that would still be you know the same approach I guess um but the pre-existing non-conforming
and neighborhood business should really be looked at together because that's what those are. Those are pretty much neighborhood businesses. It's a lot to to bite off. So, we should we should Yeah. get this list together. Is that something that um Cheyenne or
Julia can help with at least getting this list together based on the meeting? Yes. Yeah. And circulate that to the other members who aren't here. That would be great for all of us. Yeah. We have a list over from a couple of years ago that um still
on our bulletin board. Okay. Good. I think these have risen to the I'm sure some of these are on it. Yeah, I think a lot of these are probably on it. Oh, and the other one is um what about um Airbnbs? Are we Where does that come in to play?
We I think we do need to we should have an a bylaw on that. Um and I don't know what other towns have. That's a good question because it's they're not there is something in the building code which says that it should
not be less than 30 days um rented for less than 30 days. I don't know exactly where that is um in the zoning code or the building. I think it's in the I have to double check that. Um Cheyenne, do you know because I know that that question has recently come up with um in
East Milton Square um regarding the Airbnbs. Yes. I haven't seen it, but I know when I go to our website under um zoning code, we do have a little bit under um I think it was just short-term rentals. I think we
pulled a PDF way back when when we were talking about ADUs, but um I don't know if it's specifically I I think Nick was following up with that because there was some neighbor complaints um in East Milton regarding an Airbnb. So Nick might have more information on that and
we should that that actually would be a good one to have. The other one I just thought of also that Tim had been talking about if you recall the 5G remember when all the the 5G technology was going on and having some uh design
standards for those 5G um and I believe he circulated a sample bylaw on that. So that's something that would be easy lowanging fruit. Um, and I didn't want to forget about that. So,
so when you put the uh when you revised the list, Julia or Cheyenne, um, based on what we discussed here, like the ones that involve collaboration with other departments, can you like note that? And
then the ones that we've identified as being a little lowhanging fruit, kind of note that so we can begin to prioritize them. And als and also thank you. Sorry, Julia, did you have a question?
She just responding. Oh, okay. You were responding. Okay. So, the other thing that we were in thinking about this and being realistic is we have an October 27th fall town meeting that's been announced. So Cheyenne, would you be able to get
the what our deadlines would be to if we did want to do any zoning because I it may be um because this recent meeting was so um on the 16th that we're getting closer to that deadline for fall town
meeting now. So and we were so focused on getting everything ready for that. Yeah, I'll get those deadlines. Yeah, if you could just give us the dates. We have a month. So maybe two. Yeah, we probably have two. Okay. Because if you think that goes to print, I think we at
least a month before. So that's the end of September. We can do a placeholder, can't we? Right. I think we should at our next meeting, we should decide what we think we can achieve. Yeah. In basically
it would be Jul two meetings in July, two meetings in August and one in September. four to five meetings to to submit something, right? And we'd have to hold public hearing on each one.
Mhm. But like we held the public hearing for the last ones right before a town meeting. Yeah. Um, and I don't think most of the things on the list would be too controversial
except for maybe Airbnb. So, I would say if if could we get the condo conversion information that was pulled a couple years ago? I'm sure if you ask Alan Bishop, he has it somewhere and and recirculate that
before our next meeting. So that would be like which properties have there was a a year if a property had a a home built before a particular year and I don't remember which year it was and it's on
uh five uh less than five acres. Um and I don't think I don't know. We may have let set a lower limit and I don't know what lower limit we may have set, but if that doesn't ring a bell to him, let me know
and I'll start to see if I can find information. Yeah, cuz I do recall. Does that sound familiar to you? Were you on the board when we did that? Okay. Because did we talk about four acre? I think we had different thresholds that we were looking at like how many number of unit was it the number of units?
Number of houses. Yeah. Oh. Oh. In town. But how many would So how if you had five acres, what were the number of units per five acres? First, we were just identifying how many properties this might you didn't even go that far. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't Yeah. And that's
why I thought if we have information, we can get a little head start on just reviewing what we have. Yeah. On that. I do think on F and open space, we have an, you know, we can I can represent the
information that I did previously to that would be great when we look when I was saying this is what analysis I had done of course it was targeted in areas that were for MBTA communities but a lot of that's our resident C and some residents A so we can um that would be
good to look at that yeah we can use that to start with and I doubt codification could get done that fast. Yeah, I don't given a consultant. You have to get on board our attorney. Yeah, I don't see that happening. I see that one maybe being for the spring. If we could do it, I
would love to have that. That would be great. Yeah, I think that's going to take at least 6 months to Yeah. So, but if we can get a target of spring of 2026 for that, I would agree. Do we agree that we
should try for F open space and setbacks for October? I think so. Okay. And signs condo conversion. Tim's already done some Yeah, the the science the articles ready. I mean I we'll send
signs and 5G. You say we should 5G was also I don't know anything about that one. It was something that the select board had asked us actually when Katie Conland was on it to look at that they were recommending towns pass
it and then I think something with the landscape business was out of out of um wasn't consistent with state and Marian Mcketric had done a memo about that. So, you know, if we want to ask Marian about
that again, if it's already kind of pretty much ready, maybe that's one because really we want Do you want to put Airbnbs on the October um agenda? We might be having some extra meetings.
Airbnb. Um it depends how much is involved. I think we'd have to find out. Yeah, we'd have to research to see um Shane if you have any time to look at any other towns um who have Airbnb regulations I should say. Yeah.
Or bylaws. And then Cheyenne, could you check the list, sir with your colleague, other planning colleagues to see if any of them have um what they've done about pre-existing non-conforming kind of neighborhood business? If they have any
examples we can look at or it doesn't have to be pre-existing, just neighborhood business. Yeah. Okay. I think those would be some good places to start. Cut and fill. Sean said he would work on
with me. I had started working on that with Joe Pandock and and the reason it would involve Joe Pandock is we already have a cut and fill. Um, but I don't know like if you go out Cannav right before you get to the end where it cuts
over to the right, that property on the left that has multiple layers of fencing and so forth. That was a huge amount of fill. And I remember asking him, did that get a permit? And he said, no. And I said, how was that? And he says, well,
it was a judgment. So we, you know, cut and fill has become something I think that we we think is pretty important. So I don't know if if it needs to wait until we have a new building commissioner, but uh I can talk to Sean and see if he'd be interested. And maybe
that's for spring also since we ticked off a bunch that were we could probably get done in the four or five meetings. I'm not sure that's one because within that is the tree bylaw is it? It's a It's a very big
We were linking them before, but then we ended up going more just with tree with a little bit of cut and fill, but not a true Yeah. like what I would like to see for cut and fill. And and part of it I think when that subdivision off of
Pleasant um I forget the name of the street now, there's five homes there. Pine Garden. Yeah. that was going to have so much cut and so many retaining walls and yet there was nothing in the subdivision rules and rags that gave us anything to
say you couldn't do it or that you needed to do less of it. Um and that was like okay it works on paper to subdivide this property this way but it required every tree to be removed and big cut
next to the neighbors both sides. Um, and that's that's different. Well, so it's a little more complicated than just a standalone cut and fill, I think. Mhm. That's going to take, I think, a little more time. I think so, too. So, maybe
spring for that. Yeah. And I don't know if you remember Franklin, there's they have a something called a development guide book or something like that where they really
um have encouraged development that's more sensitive to the existing topography. And you know, we've looked at a number of things, whether it be the memory care or the daycarees. where they there's just
um a building type that the applicant is used to building and they just plop it on a site instead of designing something that would fit the site and um and that's why we end up with so much cut and fill. So if there's any way we can
get something in our rules and regular good it could be beneficial. Yeah. All right. So I think this is a good list. I think this is a good you know starting point and we can we can compare this to the list that Julia um is in has
in the office from previous but I think this is a lot of overlap. I think these are and these I think would I would say are priorities that have come up recently. So great. So I think that's it unless anybody has anything else. So,
um, if not, Cheyenne, did you have anything else that you needed to add or would like to add? No, no, that was all great. Um, we'll get working on that tomorrow. Perfect. Okay, great. So, then I would entertain a motion to adjurnn. So,
moved. Second. All in favor? I Good night all. Thanks.