Good evening and welcome to the 15th meeting of fiscal year 2026 for the Milton Planning Board. Um at this time I would like to now call the meeting to order and begin by introductions of the board and our staff members. Um >> sure. Cheryl Tagaya, secretary.
>> Sean Fate, member. >> Maggie Oldfield, member. >> Jim Davis, member. and Meredith Hall serving as chair this evening. We have with us our staff members >> Avante Grady, assistant director, planning director. >> Thank you and welcome everyone this
evening. Um we can uh begin first with our administrative items. Um we do not have a new set of minutes um yet that will be coming so we can defer um voting on discussion on meeting minutes. Um, we do have future meeting dates um that are
currently >> So, can I just ask on the minute um so I see in the box for or the folder for this week um ones from October and November, which is great. I'll get I'll look at those. One of the things I'm
having difficulty with is going back to prior meetings folders and seeing like if there was something that I hadn't reviewed yet in the meeting minutes is is actually getting access to that folder again. It seems like if I go to one drive, it's limited to the folder for the current meeting. And I don't
know, Liz, if I need to if there's something I'm not doing right, but it used to be that we would get like every you could see every week, but I'm not seeing that now. Is anybody else having trouble with that? >> I feel like I go on to the town's
website and then it could be listed every week. >> I'm trying to do it from one drive. Okay. >> I don't go through one drive, so I I don't know that. All right, I can just >> So maybe the website that's the way to do it. >> All right, thanks. Sorry for the interruption. >> Good. All right.
>> Um, so our next meeting dates we have our our regular schedule meetings are March 26th, uh, April 9th and April 23rd, 7 p.m. And we have been meeting at the fire station. So um, which seems to
be working. Um this could I could I just um I I was I was contacted by um Milton Cable Access just to just to check in about any additional meetings that you might be contemplating before town meeting just because he wants to kind of get a get a heads up on staffing and and
whatnot. So I just wanted to kind of put that out there on the table. I this will be my first time getting ready for a town meeting with you guys. So I don't know if you've got a >> you know process. >> We'll have our a public meeting on the 26th. So depending on if we want to add a followup planning board meeting. Um
hopefully things will be wrapped up with our sign. >> When's the public hearing for the zoning? >> On the 26th of >> March. Um >> I was advertised today was interesting. >> I just want to let you know I will not
be available on April 23rd. >> Okay. You're going somewhere nice >> and hopefully we have all of this in a we'll be in a good place. So um it's just a date. >> So right now I don't foresee for me.
>> Yeah, I don't foresee any um >> Okay. >> additional meetings meetings at this point. Um but we'll you know if anything comes up tonight, we'll we can talk about it. >> Yeah. Because the first the first
meeting in May is at the first night of Is that the first night of town meeting? >> Yeah. When is the first night? Was that May 6 or something? It's May 6th which is a Wednesday. >> Okay. >> Typically starts on a Monday but um the moderator had requested to move it
to we'll be traveling so away. So okay. Yeah. So the main meetings would be would be the 14th and the 28th. That's the 2nd and the 4th. So it should be okay. >> Yeah. Okay. Um so a staff update
and do you want to start with with update on the um some of the projects you're working on? >> Sure. Yeah. Um I'll start with the open space and recreation plan. So put together a draft change order. Liz's help. I've sent that over to the consultant and we're going to have a
call with him tomorrow on that. So just discussing the details of that. have a list of deadlines for each of the deliverables for that plan. So all the different um kind of engagement events, the the draft report, the inventory. So
um tomorrow hopefully that discussion will help with kind of being on both pages clear about kind of getting this plan done a steady efficient way. So, >> and maybe even a call if it's even like if it's on Zoom um to maybe get the
committee all the different um members of that committee together just to let them know um you know if we can get a meeting date maybe with a consultant just penciled in tenatively >> and then we can do outreach to see if we can just give
have a just a brief meeting just to give everybody sort of a this is where we are right now and >> Yeah. Yep. Well, that sounds good >> because we have had it's been a delay. So, >> absolutely. Based on the dates that you outlined for the consultant, what would the completion look like? How far out
would it be? >> So, um >> just assuming that they accept the dates, >> right? Yeah. I mean, at the moment, I was shooting for like end of June for the plan. So, of course, that's a discussion that still needs to be had,
but but yeah, that that's kind of where it's at currently. >> Repent. Thank you. >> Great. >> And then, um, yeah, I'll just talk briefly about the Eco1top application for the Milton climate action plan. Been
working on that. Reached out to MAPC to get some details on the budget and timeline. So, I will also be getting that tomorrow. So, so that'll be very helpful for the application which is due on the 20th. And so, yep, just been
working to complete that. I've already reached out to Nick about letters of support. He got back with a letter of commitment signed. So, that's great. And so, so yeah, once that's complete, expecting kind of an announcement of like the awards in the summer related to
that application. So, >> terrific. Um so a couple quick things. The um at the last meeting I had mentioned that the uh traffic um trafficcoming master plan was going in front of the select board. So that was postponed until March
24th. They're having a conversation about that about moving that forward and funding that. Um had a quick chat with the DPW director about it and she had just recommended that it probably would be great to to sign into that meeting and listen listen in. I will certainly
be be following it and uh providing updates as I can. Um >> you Oh, sure. You said I'm sorry. You said that's is that a special meeting or it's just as um on the agenda of a select board meeting? >> That's my understanding is that it's it's planned to be on that agenda for
324. I think that's their regularly scheduled meeting. >> Um so other things. So, um, Meredith and I had a quick chat about, um, me having a conversation with the, um, the library director and making sure that I've got,
um, I'm getting up to speed on the where the process is at with the, um, the the library project and the parking, um, you know, uh, efforts there. So, I should my goal is to have some some some more information for you folks. I know that
there were a couple people, it sounds like a couple of the members were able to attend that um that uh scoping session, I think, if if that's the correct term. Um and so I should have some more information on that for you on the meeting on the 26th.
Hopefully, uh like I said, connect with the library director and sort of get up to speed. Um there's also a um RFP that's been drafted for the East Milton Fire Station. I also know that the board was very interested in that process and met
as a quorum I think for that uh public meeting a few months ago. So, um I plan to um share that out with you guys as well. Um I think they're waiting I think they might be waiting on an appraisal. Um and so um I'll keep track of sort of
the timeline on that if if there's if we need to get feedback before we meet again. >> Yeah. Um, I would like to be able to offer feedback because I'd like to see the selection criteria and I'd like to
see um what been established as um goals. >> Okay. >> Often times RFPs >> in the public realm don't have to be just the highest price. They can be based on what the town would like to see. >> Yeah. >> Um and based on, you know, attending the
forum, there's a lot of interest um in this. Yeah. >> And I I I do think before it's issued, I think planning board ought to take a look at it. >> Yeah, that was one of the things I was going to say if I was wondering if we were going to have an opportunity to to
review and and uh look at um and provide input. Are they willing any willing for us to provide input? >> I don't see why not. >> Yeah. I mean, I think it I think it would be it would be silly not to listen to to to the the wisdom and the and the
experience of the members. >> Yeah. >> And this is to structure the RFP, right? >> Yeah. So, so the so that Yeah. So that like like Cheryl was saying about, you know, sort of like the criteria and what have you, you know, kind of like what the what the um the goals might be, you know, sort of what for for for what what
the town wants to see happen there. So, yeah. So, and that's how you can kind of kind of um position it for for for you know certain uses. And I've haven't looked at it that carefully. I kind of skimmed it. Um and I honestly haven't looked at the um I
still need to look at the East Milton zoning. I haven't really I haven't been a had much of much bandwidth to really really look at that more than just sort of skimming it very quickly when I first came on board. So, >> so it would be interesting to see
because you know if you think about like what's an as of right use in the business district they won't be able to meet the parking requirements. So there might be if it were a business it would be grandfathered on the parking requirements. I don't know how that works on a municipal RFP. Can they wave the parking requirements? This is the
sort of thing I'd like to understand because it really impacts who might be able be interested and might be able to make it work. >> Right. >> Right. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Because the overlay zoning allows for
mixed use, but you still have the option of the business district zoning that the underlying >> and um there are differences in the dimensional requirements and in the parking requirements etc. >> Yep. >> Who is it that's um written the RFP to
date? The uh who's the author? >> I I my understanding is it's it's um coming out of the town administrator's office. I don't know that he's got a third party involved. He might >> Yeah, because I attended >> Did Map did MAPC coordinate the the
public meeting? >> Yes. Yes. So, at >> so it's possible that they might be they might be involved in crafting that. I honestly don't know. >> It just was there were as Sher mentioned a lot of people were there and there was a lot of interest in preserving and having the town
>> maintain ownership of it. So, I would, you know, I'm interested in seeing how the RFP is written. Um, see if it reflects the kind of the will of the the people. >> It's one of the most visible uh town properties that we have, the number of
people that have seen it pass by it, you know, over the decades. It's important that it gets the right attention before the RFP is issued. Once it's issued, you're compelled, right? If somebody responds to that RFP, we're going to be responsible for however it's written. And I do think there's great potential
like you said if we can make it work. So that's >> well we would want we would want to make sure that it's understood that there might be relief needed and that >> if you put the RFP out there that is understood and the town will work with you. You will attract people who see
that you want to work with them. If you don't put that out there, people will say, "I I I don't think I'm going to I'm not going to respond. I don't I don't I don't see a path. I don't see how this is going to work." And then you're going to be limited in what you get. Absolutely.
Great. Okay. All good. All good stuff. Um so we've had several um construction review meetings in the last couple weeks. So um I'm still >> good for you, Liz. I you are just she is
going through this like she's like I did this project today. I did this one. I just just wanted to say what a great job you're doing because it's >> it's busy. It's busy. It's definitely busy. Um so hopefully I'll have have a more you know kind of whatever um better
summary uh in the meeting on the 26th um you know in terms of you know timelines and and things that are outstanding. But um one thing that might be coming up sooner rather than later I need to look into it is with the memory care project. Um they were they were talking about
potentially needing a second construction entrance on Highland. Um, so I'm I I just want to make sure that doesn't trigger like a scenic road hearing. >> Do they Do you have a sense of when the construction would begin for that project?
>> I think they'd like to I think they'd like to start, you know, site work in the next couple of months. So, um I think they might even be ready to to file like to file for their building permit, but some some of the some of the
initial stuff I that there's some there's some communication back and forth with DPW. Um but that's that was sort of the general time frame that I heard because I do believe that in our permit that we the neighbors were
interested in being notified. Um, so you know, if you could, it's been a while since we've issued that permit, but it would be worth checking that because there was a lot of neighbor interest in the construction portion, too. >> Similar to Walcott Woods where there would be a neighborhood periodic report given
>> and those reports were submitted to the planning board as well for for Walcott Woods. They weren't >> uh like weekly reports, but they were big broad updates which were very interesting and helpful. I think >> I remember I don't know what we agreed
to but I remember talking specifically about the methodology so that the neighbors could be informed and it's I'm sure it's documented. >> It would be good to refresh that because >> okay >> we don't want to surprise the neighbors this been this was prior to
um to you arriving Liz. Yeah, >> there was plenty of neighborhood behind the >> plan >> and not all of them was positive. >> There were a lot of meetings dedicated to discussion of of uh how impacts for construction could be mitigated.
>> Okay. >> And I think uh communication is just key. >> Yeah. So, um yeah, >> reinforcing that when the permit is issued, you know, >> um >> I know that oftent times the um building
department is focused on the the building permit, but the special permit provisions are really important to like tree protection and all the other things that some sometimes get overlooked. There was plenty of discussion, Liz, of
a of a pre meeting >> and and um there were parties that would have been involved. The building inspector certainly would have been probably leading that meeting representing the town, but I my recollection is we may have even discussed having the police chief be
part of that because of the traffic concerns that people had. There's there's quite a bit involved in it. So, um >> yeah. >> Yeah, security cameras. They did ask about the um they did ask about that um about whether you know who talking with the chief about details and and you know
communication there. So that definitely was part of the part of the conversation. The police chief was not there. Um the fire chief I think was there though. >> Fire chief was there. So, we had Concom fire uh DPW
um planning and I don't think I don't think Michael White was able to make it because he was down two inspectors. One thing I'll say is that most people are surprised once construction starts and tree removal begins and site
clearing and for the construction and we usually I'm pretty sure we we must have here too. We don't like to see more clearing than is necessary at for the stage of construction. And you know, I'll just raise one of the things that came up some time ago is
where um there were definitely um runoff issues that came up on a site when they overex they excavated beyond their limits line. >> Yeah. >> And they hadn't protected uh from runoff. and we we as a town um had to be
involved in uh legal matters and hiring civil engineers and there was just all sorts of trouble with that and so um ra >> there was um there was lengthy discussion about a construction management plan for the project
>> and at the time uh that our board was involved in this in these meetings um the builder had not yet been selected. >> Okay. >> So, it it was recognized that that would be really dialed in >> once the builder had been on board. So,
a lot of what we talked about and expectations that we created to make it more palatable for the neighbors, >> okay, >> was generally accepted by the developer, but um there definitely were some details that needed to be ironed out. Okay. And uh you know given given the
hours of meeting time that was dedicated to listening to the neighbor's concerns, it's it is our responsibility to make sure that >> as Cheryl said, they follow the special permit and they follow the construction management plan and we do everything we can >> to make it the best project possible for the neighbors.
>> Okay. >> There was some people that that spoke at length that are right across the street. >> Yeah. And uh we have to we have to look after their interests as best we can.
>> Yeah, totally agreed. Okay, good. Okay. Um what else? Um yeah, so the scenic road question. Um and the you talk about the library, the fire station, traffic. So that's it.
>> Could you tell us what construction meetings, what projects you've you mentioned that you've been in a number of them. Could you just could you happen to tell us which ones you've been? >> Yeah, so um the other so 440 granite >> that was um so I've only called one so
far. I called the one I called the the meeting for 40 access which is the 7 728 Randolph I think. Um, and that was really in in response to the building commissioner because he didn't want to issue the building permit until he knew
that folks were satisfied that we had had sort of like the, you know, the documentation that we needed up front. So, um, so that's a comprehensive permit. Um, and then we did a construction meeting on what else? >> For Franklin.
>> Yeah, for Franklin. Yep. Yep. Yep. So, that was this week, right? So DPW called that one. DPW called that one. DPW called the one for 440. 440. And then um the the applicant actually
the the the owners, you know, um requested a meeting for the for the memory care. So they were so they were looking to you know they're they're looking to to get going. So So that was sort of you know trying to trying to get
the process moving. How about the U gardener school? >> Has there been any meeting related to that? >> Is that the Is that is that the one with the issue with the dimmable lights? >> Yeah, we've had a couple questions on that. Cheryl, um Avanti's working with
the with the electrical contractor because they can't spec they can't spec the light that you guys approved. Um and they can't get it dimmable, right? Yeah, that seemed to be something related to the type of fixture and the
the dimming requirements. So, they were just wanting details on what was like, you know, approved as I think part of the >> in the parking lot or this >> it was like exterior lighting that they were um >> Yeah, on the building, I think. Right. Was it on the building or was it was it
the parking lot lighting? I thought I I just assumed it was on the building, but honestly, I haven't I haven't been as close to it as you have. >> Um I think H just said like exterior lighting. So I'm not sure but but yeah >> what I would say about lighting is it is
something that we spend time on because it's something that can impact neighbors if lights are on late at night or too bright etc. And so if there's any deviation, you know, I I would say at least like I I don't know if it needs a full official
review, but I I would like to at least have us have an opportunity to take a look at the substitute fixture. >> Yeah. So, so, so Avanti is working on getting getting that um the the the details.
>> Okay. Um, and I think, you know, at this point in the game, you know, they'll probably have to go back to their designers maybe on it or something. I don't know if the electrical contractor is going to be able to give the the level of of detail that you got on the site plan. So, so there's been some there's been some back and forth. So,
this kind of brings me to another kind of point, which is sometimes in the past the building uh commissioner or that office has made a decision that something is a minor modification and they approve it without notifying the
planning board. And that one example that I mentioned earlier where there was a runoff, it was multiple buildings on added to a property and they were nowhere close to where we had approved them. Nowhere close. And we were when we were looking at that we're like that
should have come back that should have come back to us. So that line of >> one of the prior the most recent prior planning director >> was c uh very careful about that and always wanted to at least give us an opportunity to say yes or no whether we
felt something should come back. >> Yeah. And so I I bring that up for you too because um you know some things all of these that we have so far you wouldn't have been here to hear the discussions right so you wouldn't you wouldn't know >> how sensitive certain things were to the
community process and so that's where I would say >> you know air on asking us at least through Meredith first and then if it looks like something that she feels like we all would want to review then you know at least give us an opportunity to Right. Right.
>> Like just on that scenic roadway, um that second construction for the memory care. >> Yeah. >> Um I think we would need to know specifically where what the location is. Um the you know the length of the what stone walls needed to come down and are
those temporary that would be replaced and what trees because there were some trees that were going to be preserved. >> I would think they would need a public hearing for that. to come back >> to come back >> seems like it's scenic road. Yeah.
>> For scenic road scenic road. >> Did they already do a scenic road hearing? >> No, not at the >> No, because it was an existing driveway. >> Okay. >> So, if they're looking for a second one, they would have to come. Yes, it's a it's a new application,
>> I think. So, >> depending upon where it is, I think. >> Yeah, depending on where it is. So I think we would definitely need more information on that. And is it temporary or is it a >> Yeah, it's definitely it's definitely temporary. >> It's so it's so the trucks the you know when they when they have heavy heavy
delivery days the trucks don't stack up. >> It's a really tight site. >> Yeah. The issue with the heavy heavy truck traffic that's going to happen there is compaction. >> Um so it it is important to know how closer they are to trees that were intended to be tapped or things like
that. talked about street sweeping at the end of every day or every week. >> Okay, >> the secondary entrance, it's going to make a mess. >> Plus, when the neighbors see a secondary entrance, they're going to have such anxiety they're going to think it's permanent. >> I mean, to Sean's point about an email
blast or a public hearing or >> just a public site meeting with the neighbors that offer it up with the contractor. >> You're right. They said they have plenty of space. And the only other thing I just wanted to comment on and just a reminder that
when we did when we approved 440, we had talked about them burying the utilities if they could and putting in light pictures and >> which looks awesome by the way >> which so I think they have taken those but I they do need something from the town. I think it's similar to 36 central
where they buried everything and then the town or Eversource never buried it at the end points. Um, so there were exposed wires and I >> I know there was an issue and it's it's the same developer, so he'll be familiar with what that process was to get that done,
>> but I think it will really make a difference if they can get those utilities buried on final 440 granite. A huge difference and he was going to do what he could and it looks like he has. Do you do you suspect that Michael?
>> Well, he he when they were just when Liz was discussing it um with Michael, he said, "We're going to try." So, I don't know what we're going to try means and if it's He said, "I think the town would need to do, you know, >> honestly, I I there was a lot of
discussion with the DPW folks about, you know, the the utility work and what was left and timing and sequencing." And so I I don't I don't want to I >> Yeah, you don't want to speak to that, but yeah, >> I I just There was a lot of information. >> Maybe just following up with what he
needs to do that if >> Yeah. Oh, no. Absolutely. Yeah. >> I'm telling him he needs to try very hard. >> Yeah. >> Well, it'll benefit the pro it'll benefit the project. So, >> well, we have >> I'm just not a Well, I'll try >> try very very hard. >> We did we did have a call today about
the affordable units. So, and Julie Kramer was able to join that call. So, so they're they're they've they've got their they've got their um their homework on, you know, making sure that stuff's all synced up, too. So, so there's a there's there's a lot of there's a lot of moving pieces. there's
good reason for them to want to even as the developer because looking out as a as a um as an occupant of one of those units looking out the window and seeing the utility lines running past your
view. >> Granted, you're looking at the highway, but still, you know, it's not it's not beneficial to them to have the bulls out there, not for what they're going to try to do, >> right? >> So, >> yeah, totally. could have swore last time I drove by the pools looked pretty
bare. I thought he was doing it. >> I think they're in process. >> It looks like it is. That's what I just >> It's a slow process. I mean, it's a very slow process and you know, getting conduit into the ground and the number of lines that it's just it's painfully slow. It's expensive.
>> Very. >> That's what I would worry the most about, Cheryl, because the expense sometimes can be can be the barrier. >> But if the time when you're digging up and doing new sidewalks, it's the time to do it. It is. Yeah. >> When you're pulling up all the old stuff,
>> if you're going to do it, that's >> Thanks for that. That's helpful to us. Helps us understand. >> Um, and I have one last question on the projects that you've been involved in on for Franklin. >> Is there a schedule? Is there a schedule that has been shared with the town for
an end date? >> Fall 2027. Yeah. I Yeah, I feel like it was definitely like late in 27. They were right. Does that Does that sound right? >> Yeah, I think I think I think I think it was I think it was late in 27 and they
were they were going to be sharing an updated construction schedule as well that was requested at the meeting. Mhm. >> Um, so and I know they need to do some more utility work over there as well and there could be some street closures and and so it's definitely there's going to need to be a lot of
communication over there as well. All right. Anything else that it? Yes. Great. All right. Um so with that we can move um if there's any public comment um I don't see anyone
>> would like to hear but if there's any hands on up online no hands online. Okay. >> All right. Um then we can um begin the discussion of the sign bylaw zoning amendment. Um, as Liz mentioned, we
attended a war committee on Monday and there were some questions that came up and Liz, do you want to sort of go through those? Um, sure. And you were doing a great job with sort of the correspondence with Carolyn and trying to get some answers. Um, some things
that we could talk about tonight. And >> yeah, so so I did go ahead and um I I forwarded the email, Carolyn's email from today. Hopefully you all have it um in front of you. Uh >> if I can interrupt right there. Sure. We have February 12th and February 9th
within that email. Which one are we looking at here? >> Oh, our own email. >> So I said >> I think both. Okay. >> Cuz one was the qu the questions that arose from
>> originally and then >> I don't see an attachment. I just see a red line. >> You see two, right? So, so the I I I emailed I just forwarded I forwarded the email that she sent me today to you guys about about couple minutes past 7.
>> So, it should be sort of like top of your 73. >> I don't see an attachment. Were there attachments? >> No, no, it's not attachments. So, what she did on this one was she just went into the body of my email and she just So, if you scroll down in the email, you're going to see red red font that
says KP comments. Okay. >> Okay. Is that is that hopefully pretty clear? I also have a couple of colors here. Hard copy. >> Yeah. Hard copy. >> Yeah, that'd be great. >> I got two right here. This one.
>> Fast fast moving. Yep. >> Um All right. So, I can just follow. So her first so essentially what I did was I reached out and I said the warrant committee had questions about temporary signs. So what I did was I included the
existing bylaw language and what's in the proposed which is you know the article that we're dealing with here tonight, right? So um I included both of those items for her just so she could have them sort of side by side. A-frame sidewalk signs. There were questions about those. I did the same thing. I
included the existing what's the the law today and what we're proposing in this new article. So another question they had was on fines. So what I did there is the same same approach. I just copied out the existing bylaw language and I made a suggestion that we might want to
point to the existing bylaw language the the language that's in in the zoning bylaw today on fines because there was concerns that the language in this article the signs like deviated from the way the town handles like f fines with
with zoning zoning bylaw violations. So, um, there were questions about limitations on political signs in a commercial storefront. And then there was also a question about real estate offices and the property listings in the window. Is it is it
signage? Is it a display? So, if you scroll down to um the first sort of red highlight here, KP comments, um she's I I think I honestly I think this might have been a little bit of confusion on
her part because the temporary sale sign is actually in is in this proposed bylaw. that's it's not it's not new, you know, new language that's being suggested, but she does make a good point about the 30 days and and no more than 30 three 30-day periods are
allowed. Um, so, and I agree I do agree with her on that. And I thought that might be something if we want to pause and just >> discuss on a temporary sales sign saying, you know, if it's like something that you're promoting a seasonal thing,
you know, that you can only have it up for 30 days and you can with no more than three 30 day, you know, day periods permitted per calendar year just seems >> that seems burdensome for a retailer that,
>> you know, I would say, you know, could we just say limited to 120 days or 100, you know. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Um something that they're promoting that's that would be a temporary sign that it's not indefinite
but even six month, you know. >> Mhm. >> But to say only 30 days, you have to take it down and then you can put up something else for just 30 days. >> I agree. It's it's it's it's seems needlessly complicated and it's also seems too restrictive too. So
>> what are the other members thoughts on that? >> Agree. I I agree with what you said that was too restrictive in 30 days for some like you think about >> Christmas holidays for example. I mean that's getting back all the way to
Halloween these days instead of >> thinking like four months like >> so um I mean I think a lot of people appreciate holiday sort of what they consider decor or decoration or whatever festiveness on
uh windows. >> Those would be exempt. Those are exempt. Okay. >> But but it could be something like coming soon or you know just opening like a new opening for a store. We we could, you know, this the way the
language was written, it does say that 30-day periods may be utilized consecutively. So, somebody has the opportunity to go 90 days with how it was written. >> If we didn't feel 90 was enough and you thought 120 was better, you could simply offer them three 40-day periods. If
they're going to have 120 days, they can put them all together consecutively if they want. That might be an easy way to change the language, but Yep. Just a m just a minor tweak. >> Four 30-day periods or three 40-day periods. >> I know. I think that language is too
complicated. >> Just just the total days awareness that I think is fine. >> Yeah. >> You want to ask, well, do I have to go back and get a new permit to every time I want to redo it? >> So, is there is there a reason that that would be like only 120 days?
>> No, that's why I said we could do >> but I mean is it >> six months? I guess I feel for the I feel for the retail person that's trying to stay in business and you know sales signage and all that. >> I'm the same exact way. I I think it's so hard to be in the retail business right now with Amazon that you don't
want to limit these people. And I don't think they're going to do something completely gaudy for 365 days. They're going to do what's tasteful for their store. So if they want to run promotion after promotion, but they're they're different. Um I would say let them do it. That's all.
It's usually a seasonal promotion. >> Yeah. >> So spring could be like April, May, and June. >> My my concern about not having any restriction, Jim, is that it becomes a de facto enlargement of the total amount of science. We spent all that time
working on the total amount of science. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Right. >> I I think 120 days or >> 120 days might maybe we should increase it. It's a third of the year. >> Six.
>> So the back school season is >> 160 days. >> Yeah. >> 180. >> I said 160, but 180 is another. >> Yeah. >> Like I mean 180 is half the year, right? >> Yeah. >> Right. Six months, right?
>> I would be okay with that. >> I think 180 is good. >> Yeah. I I do think we could go back onto the language, right? Because earlier in the language all the way to the top, the first sentence indicates provided sign is displayed for
no longer than 45 consecutive days. So I mean somehow we just have to >> rework the language just so it's >> consistent. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> So are we saying 180 for both both the first sentence and then temporary sale
sign? So a period for a period not exceeding 180 days in that period each business establishment shall be limited to a display to display such signs for a period not exceeding 180 days >> period
>> period and then that's it and the rest of it is not required. >> Yeah. >> And then doing the same up at the first paragraph. Where in the f where where where where is that fourth line? Um fourth line
where it says 45 consecutive days. >> Oh, right. So that so those are going to be all temporary signs as opposed to temporary sale signs. >> Oh, got it. Okay. I'm sorry. >> So So I think I think it it is distinguished from that. >> It is. Okay. >> And and yeah, so that would be like the
sandwich board I think would kind of fall into that and some different things. So >> Okay. Okay. So, keep that 45 and that is that is that um
>> do they contradict each other? I mean, >> do we even need temporary sale signs? >> It's a good question. >> Temporary sale signs like do we do we do you even need it >> that paragraph? You know,
it's a it's a good question. Um I think I think part of I think we do need to have a tighter understanding of exactly what we mean by temporary sign. So I have kind of I have kind of pushed that back to to Carolyn. Um because this does
sort of you know mix mix a lot of different things together. But I think I think the distinction here is the section that's a temporary sale signs is speaking to the business businesses, >> right? >> The section that's the sign temporary
sign is could be for anything, right? It could be a residential, it could be somebody that has residence that puts up a temporary sign, right? >> Yep. >> Right. because it describes it as a sign exterior or interior which provides
information such as a sign regarding any special event or offering of a non-permanent nature including but not limited to a yard sale at the same location authorized by the select board and activity about public health safety welfare an election or referendum. So that that is a sign for like anywhere in town
>> the banners. Yeah, those are like the banners that go up and around. >> Right. Right. And then but it I think this is where it gets problematic because at the end it says temporary science advertising service commodities you know foods shall be displayed only on premises where such service is
offered. And so essentially that's tying that 45day thing right. >> Yeah. >> Because you're using the same term you're using the same term temporary sign. And right now you can do um I think the way it's written is you can do a a date a s sandwich board sign. You
get an annual permit from the building commissioner if you're a business, >> right? For a business. But but again, these the in this in this definition, temporary signs, advertising, service, commodity, foods and services, etc.
shall only be displayed on premises. It is it's it it is for businesses. You know what I mean? That language is for businesses. So So should those four lines be moved down then underneath temporary sales signs? we would just take it out of that section and
>> I so I think I think the I think what's problematic and hopefully Carolyn can kind of you know kind of tighten this for us um is that you have that 45day it mixes business with non-b businessiness right in that definition you have temporary sales which really are a
different animal right >> you know what I mean like they kind of are because you do want to let them let people have that opportunity to you know promote those special things Um, so I don't I I'm not sure getting rid of that is is is the way to go necessarily. Um,
>> I would trust Carolyn to if you and Carolyn want to work that out, how that language is clarified, because that was one of the things that Jay was confused about. >> Absolutely. >> Yep. Um, >> absolutely. Yep. >> And and I and I was too, honestly, because because this the the annual permit from this from the building
commissioner when that got pointed out on Monday night, I was like, "Okay, all right." You know, those are the things that, you know, have to be tied down really tight. >> Can I point out something else there? Yeah. It says under the temporary sign. >> Yep. >> In a business district,
>> we have lots of businesses that aren't in a business district. I mean, even including ones that one might think are in a business district, >> right? >> Um like the large building opposite the um post office in East Milton Square,
for example. I think we're okay because I think the way she handled that was um pre-existing non-conforming signs associated with non-residential uses and residential zones are subject to the same requirements as business districts
and this temporary sale sign language comes under that. >> I So I think I think we're okay. >> All right. Yeah. Would it would it be someone that has to read this and interpret what our bylaw says if we
simply said for any business >> whether it's in a business district or not? >> Right. It's just the use rather than the >> district. Right. This is so if we said for any business. >> Okay. >> And you ask her if those words would work >> because I think that way you don't have
to refer back to another section to figure out. >> Right. Right. Right. Right. So instead of the first for loop. >> Yeah, that's my biggest frustration is referring from one section to another and then I just >> and then I just do it and wait for a phone call.
>> All right. I want to make sure I want to make sure I get that. So for so for temporary sale signs >> any any business >> for any business temporary business or any business and that is in place of in a business district. >> Okay. All right. And and honestly,
that's more permissive. So, I think that's good. That's more permissive. >> Now, you won't have to get a return attorney to interpret it. >> No. Ask for forgiveness. >> I know. >> Okay. >> All right. So, that was that those are
the comments on the um temporary sale signs. So, so now my next question to her was, so what I what I did here was I attached the two the two processes that are separate and independent from the sign bylaw. The select board has their own
sign application for nonprofit signs. It's very straightforward. There's a whole list of rules and etc. Um and and then they also have separate process and rules for yard sale signs. So those are again separate from this. Um, so
hopefully that's helpful for the warrant committee. Um, my question to Carolyn was perhaps we need a separate definition for nonprofit temporary signs or or non-commercial, whatever, not not business temporary signs. So, she's saying she's not sure a separate
definition is required. I think it is. I kind of went back and sort of pushed back and said I think we probably need that. Um, and then she notes that there is an exemption under, you know, already in here. certain nonprofit signs are exempt and that you know signs located
crossing over property owned by the town such as street banners providing notice of public event advertising a religious charitable educational event provided such signs are approved by the select board and removed within 24 hours following the event. Now my question there is does the t does the select
board's current process for nonprofit signs require people to remove them within 24 hours? My guess is no because when I see like, you know, the Milton Players and I see like the the, you know, the the farm that's over off of um
>> the idea. You sent the you sent the link on that form. >> I think it's two weeks when you get an A-frame. >> So that's so so so that Yeah, I thought you had to request when I filled out the form, they would ask what date to what date would you like it up and then they
approve it based on those requested dates. So you have >> an act of two weeks I think. >> So yeah, you have to have an end date and you have to take it down on that date. And actually if it's at the library, the library will take it down for you or or put it up for you. I can't remember. But
>> yeah, we put up our own do it, but the Yeah, same library too, >> right? Um so um >> we talk about do we really need a permit for a yard sale? >> They have a whole process. Okay. So, that's not us for us to worry
about. >> No, it it does. The only the only reason I even put it in there is because somebody might question yard sale signs. So, I just want to make sure everybody knows there's a whole other place to to to get your yard sale assign approved. If you're concerned that you're not exempt, there's a whole other place to
do it and it's not here. >> Okay. >> So, that's not that's not our >> that's not ours. Yeah. >> Right. So, so I think I think >> res could be >> I think this can be tightened up a little bit. That 24hour question I think just has to be clarified.
>> So I I think it just needs to be clear someplace. >> Okay. >> If you want to do this, go here. If you want to do this, go there. >> Right? >> Because otherwise it's still going to be confusing to people. And that's what Larry from the Johnson's from the warrant committee who's on the sign
review committee has a flowchart that he set up to explain if you want to do this you know if you are in this location or if you want you know to do this type of sign this is the process and if it doesn't get approved this is your appeal process but and I think we were talking about having him do that with temporary
signs too maybe have some work working with him on having >> that's a really good idea a flowchart for temporary >> was part of that conversation but even if you said if you are a business and want to install a sign, go here. If you are a nonprofit or if you want a temporary sign, if you want to do a lawn
sale, if you want to do a wreath sale >> and it can go into the handbook that we're >> spring plant sale, >> it goes here. >> Yeah, because Yeah, I just think that >> the guide Yeah, it definitely making things easier for people. >> Absolutely.
>> Best and visual. >> Totally agree. >> People don't want to read. >> No, no. Very good. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. So, so the next question was on um the next section here is you know my comment to Carolyn was I
think the I think the lang the language as written I I think is is very clear about about you know the process for sidewalk signs for businesses. Right. So so I don't think we really
need to circle back on that. I think the confusion was the nonprofit signs and the liability the question about the liability insurance that you know that also came up that's a that's that's a little bit further down. Um so I don't think I think that's just going to be
explaining that better to the to the warrant committee. I don't think that requires any language changes. Um does that does that make sense? Do you guys are you guys comfortable with that? I just had a question because this says a um a sign shall be erected upon
issuance of a 30-day permit. Where's that radio? >> On two A-frame sidewalk signs. >> Sorry. So that so that's the language that's in the >> I did this because I kind of wanted Carolyn to make sure because another thing that the that that the warrant
committee was really sort of drilling back on was how is this different? How is this different? How is this different? I'm sorry. You know what I mean? That was the current. >> So, so it so but it is important though because it will come up. It gets confusing. You know what I mean? >> So that will come out >> all of that language that's in the
existing bylaw gets repealed >> and that and so and the sidewalk sign that you >> so so the language that's going to get that that's been advertised and is subject to the public hearing is what's proposed language B sidewalk signs one A frame sandwich board and that's where it
talks about that the building commissioner issues it annually. Y >> um they should there needs to be a sticker. Um I think it's very clear again what now that now that we've sort of like pulled out the nonprofit stuff and that that sort of messy thing over
there. We this is very clear about what you do if you're a business >> and also too if you're not if you're not in a business district it's the same thing. You follow this you follow this same requirement if you're a business. Um so
uh what else? Yeah. So, that's that. And then, um, perhaps we should, this is my question to Carolyn, perhaps we should clearly delineate nonprofit sidewalk signs as exempt. So, create a whole new exemption, you know, for just sidewalk signs for
for, you know, for for nonprofits. And so, she >> Except for they have to go to the select board for a permanent. >> That's true. But but it Yeah, that Yeah, that's Yeah. >> So, as long as we clarify that. >> Okay. All right. >> We could even have it in exempt. Yeah.
>> Subject to approval by the select board or something, >> right? Yep. >> Yep. Okay. And and and circling back on that 24-hour thing again, make sure that's consistent with other practices with the removal after 24 hours. So,
here's another question they had was on liability insurance. I had a conversation with um Nick Milano today about how this is done. um he wasn't necessarily aware of a process where this is that this is um actively happening for businesses.
Again, same issue. It would have been a lot more clear Monday night if we had just put the whole nonprofit thing over here and we're talking just about businesses. Um, but this is Carolyn's this is Carolyn's suggestion for how to how to how to how to word that if if we
do want to add that back into the bylaw because the the the the um consensus earlier was that this this language would be in the guidelines not in the bylaw. >> Okay. >> But I think the warrant committee did
seem to come out fairly strong. There were some real comments saying we think it should go back into the bylaw. So maybe >> adopting Carolyn's language is >> yeah recommended. >> I'd be I'd be fine with that. I think it sounds I think it sounds fine.
>> I just have a couple comments on this. If this is the language well there's a couple things. Uh said insurance must cover well let's start with the first sentence. evidence of saying maybe requested by
the building. I don't think we should say maybe or may not be. I think we should just be definitive. >> Okay. >> And and and say must be submitted. >> Okay. >> Um I I just think maybe
>> just leaves a gray area. We we want to make sure that >> there is proper insurance coverage for anybody that chooses to use one of these sites. But I also think it's better to say less in the bylaw
>> in terms of specificity. >> Let the specificity occur during the permitting process. >> I mean, some things are are probably givens. >> The town of Milton must be included as an additional insured. That's fine. But you think about over the course of time,
Liz. >> Yep. >> As as we consider risk in the town, >> Yeah. you wouldn't want to have to go back and amend the bylaw to address a risk that you know or a change in our and I I'm thankfully we've taken the
>> we've taken out of this the insurance limits >> because that's something that could change but I just I I maybe you could talk to Carolyn about this >> okay >> I think it should be definitive that it's required not that it may be requested >> okay >> and I also think we should write less in
here >> in terms of the specificity once we say that it's requ specificity be part of the permitting process >> and and and thereby the town has the flexibility to adjust the the requirement >> y >> you know
>> through the through the through the design guidelines >> guidelines >> exactly >> yeah I agree I think it's a good idea >> we never brought this back to the town meeting to adjust a bylaw oh my god bring us up can you imagine
>> oh my All right. So, I'm still I I still need to circle through with with Michael White um because the way this is the way this is, you know, as we as we said, the way this is worded, it's an annual permit and it's the building commissioner. Um there
is language in here about the select board approving it if it if it's going to be um on the public right ofway. This is again back to the sandwich board signs. this tempest tempest in a teapot here time we spend on these things.
>> That's why we're like we really didn't the temporary signs became more of a >> It's funny. It's so funny, right? And well, there is a lot of language in here about it. So, if the sandwich board is located within the public right of way or on the public sidewalk, permission from the select board is required. So, we kept trying to figure out ways to sort of like not have this thing have to
go back to the select board. So my conversation with Nick was that maybe maybe that's a that's DPW because they would because they would determine they would determine if if something was you know there was proper clearance you know the sidewalk wasn't
too wasn't too narrow you know so so that that that would be you know >> rather than having Nick approve the >> Yeah. And and I don't know if they I don't know if the select board like devolves that decision those decisions to him or not or if they actually have to go in front of the select board. >> They go to really Nick us typically
approves them. I >> mean I do like that. Um I think going to the DPW is actually good. Um >> because they're the ones who end up having to pick up the sign if it falls over. >> You know, they're out there every day.
The selectmen are driving the streets every day. So I and then and the DP >> do they have staff to take a DPW to do this? Because Lynn, it's usually Lynn takes the form. >> Yep. >> You you fill out the form either online or in the office and then she brings it
to Nick and then you get an email saying you've been approved. >> Well, I know recently with the DPW um with the doppton island sites, they've been very very good on top. They they do have um staff. So, I don't think it
would be overly burdensome to them. I mean, as it is today, >> um, >> because but they just know, you know, they'll pick up a sign and either return it to you or, you know, try to prop it up correctly.
>> In terms of eyes on the town, like eyes on the town. The DPW is much more of an entity that has their eyes on the town. You know, they're driving the town. They try to see the streets. I think your points are are all accurate points. You
know, in my opinion is >> if we in some town meeting 10 years ago, we created the strong town administrator >> that now is Nick Milano. If we're wasting Nick Milano's time on things that the DPW could handle and manage,
that's we're not doing a good job as a town. Don't don't make this next pardon. >> Yeah. >> So maybe that part. Yeah. So that would be a conversation for you to have. >> Well, and the and the way this is the way this is written, you know, as proposed. Um, somebody would would would
have to um probably file a permit with Michael White, a signed permit for for a sidewalk sign. And then the way permitiz works is he could just create a check off in permitiz for the DPW. If the person checks off and permitiz that they're going to be like in the public right ofway, that it's not going to be
like, you know, on the little piece of land that's actually adjacent to their building. It's actually going to be out in the sidewalk, right? >> The four A-frames can go. >> That's see now that's where I think some of the confusion came in because those again those are non-b businessiness
>> from my understanding profits. >> That's right. So this doesn't apply to that. this doesn't apply. That's a whole that's a all over here, right? And it's very it's very much specified. It's like I think they call out like five locations, right, where they where they're allowing them. So like these
different islands, like these big islands, because I've seen them. I forget what they are, but there's like So that that's over here. I still need to drill down on how the business sandwich board signs gets issued because it wasn't super clear to me after after
talking to Nick about it exactly what the process was. Have you had have you had to do one like Well, you wouldn't put a sandwich board out on your property. >> I do. >> Yeah, but you're on your property though. >> Yeah, my >> So, it doesn't really >> Yeah, but 28 I do a sandwich board sign. So that's different because because this
isn't this isn't anticipating people that are like not not adjacent to their actual storefront. You know what I mean? So you might be kind of in like a unique category because of that. >> Definitely in a unique category. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So
all right. So so maybe maybe use the DPW, right? >> I think so. >> That's like try anyway. We should at least try and see if Marina can pick it up. >> Okay. It should it well I mean I hate to say it. I know these these are the types of things that people get all get all
wound up about. So >> all right so the next thing is the fines. So um you know there was concern there was concern that people could be getting fined you know 50 bucks a day and it could add up quick. So the existing bylaw language talks about a
fortnight. So, I can't even imagine when it was written. >> 1937, but but um so, you know, it at least gives you two weeks, right? So, you get a $50 fine, you get two weeks, they come
back out, you still haven't done it, it's another hundred bucks, you get another two weeks. So I I think I think Caroline's recommendation here is that um you know that's kind of how it would work is you know 50 and then 100 after two weeks and then if they still haven't
done it after a month now it's up to 300. It's just a little bit more um gentle um and you know I don't know that the town does a lot of this right and I don't know that the town does a lot of you know these these types of fines.
That's not that's not my that's not what I'm that's not the sense I'm getting. Not that it does not that it shouldn't be in there and that it shouldn't be, you know, correct, >> but I think you're right. >> But >> so how does this line up with other fines applied to other,
you know, issues across town like the lighting bylaw? Do all of these fines line up? They should all line up. I mean, I'm just looking at the zoning, which is why which was why I had said like, can we just point back to what's
already in the zoning >> instead of creating kind of like a new refined schedule. >> Yeah. >> Um, but as I'm reading what's already in the zoning, >> talks about 50 and then it jumps up to 300. So, there's no sort of like interim
level. So maybe this the fines should actually come out of the bylaw to you know our discussion a little while ago if we want to adjust the fines then we have to go back for town meeting. So maybe the fines shouldn't be in the bylaw. You know, you could you could
have a fine schedule that becomes issued with your permit, right? And and just just, you know, write the language that, you know, should you violate the terms of the bylaw, you'll be subject to fines as outlined in the permit that was
issued to you and just issue people. And that way, again, you can you can change that. >> Yeah. >> Without having to go back and change the file. I agree with you. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And I think the biggest challenge with fines is I, you know, to me it they
should be meaningful. You know, if you want somebody to follow the required, you know, uh, bylaw, make sure that the value is meaningful so somebody just doesn't dismiss it and say, "I don't really care. I'm going to pay 50 bucks. I'll pay 100. I'll pay 300. I want to sign out there and I'll get an extra
month for 300." I mean, people will do that. You know, it's worth it to me. So, so I think it should be a meaningful value. But I also think one of the biggest challenges for anything we do for a penalty in Milton. >> Yeah. >> It should be evenly enforced. >> Everybody, you know, I mean, you don't want one person
um getting relief and another person being penalized. It just it has to be equitable. >> And that's the part that would really upset people if one person is penalized with a fine and they're looking at someone the other someone else's side and they didn't get penalized, right?
>> That's the big challenge. Mhm. >> I don't know how to that that's not for us to discuss, but >> no selective enforcement practices and it's illegal. >> So the town puts themsself at risk if they do that. >> Okay.
Thank you. >> That doesn't say it doesn't happen, but they put themselves at risk. But maybe back to this language then if we take the if we take the dollar value for the fine out of we just include language and and then we issue the fine schedule as part of the person's permit. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I would just have to circle back and make sure that there's not sort of some um you know kind of umbrella >> umbrella you know sort of language that applies to to any any zoning bylaw violation.
>> Just make sure that they're not at cross purposes. But I do I do agree with you though. I think if we could have that a lot much more of that language like in the in the guidelines and and have the ability to or or as a as a as a schedule. Yeah. >> I mean otherwise the planning board 100 years from now we'll be looking at this
saying $50 just like we're looking at Fortnite. >> So funny. And now you can really see why Tim was like we need to give clarity on this and it might be why he left handle doing the sign by. But I think he
said it's just so you know it's just confusing not just the sign part. I mean really this will at least take on clear up a good part of >> All right. And so the last one two more.
So, this one honestly I did not get into the weeds with it because because my sense is that um my sense is that um
they're the total sign area. Okay. So, the proposed bylaw already limits the total sign area of all signs associated with the business as well as the amount of a storefront door window that can be covered with signs. In my opinion, these limitations would apply to any signs a business installs, including those of a
political nature. So, that's that's really that's pretty much it right there. So, so they they're they can't add additional political signs over and above what what they're allowed, but they also can't be told they can't put them in if they want, and they're exempt
under section 57, right? So if somebody wants to put up, you know, three campaign signs for somebody for, you know, you can't you can't tell them no, but you can limit it. I think you can limit it by these dimensions by the dimensions essentially
>> as long as it's the same as all. Yeah, >> that's my that's how I read that. I mean, I'll probably read it more carefully before we go back to the warrant committee. >> I think her position is pretty uh pretty well summarized by the last four lines in the first paragraph. Mhm.
>> I caution the town to constrain its regulation of signs to where they can be placed, their size, and setbacks from roads and the iteration, whether temporary or permanent, and stay clear of any regulation that may be construed as regulating the signs content for restriction in free speech, >> right?
>> So, make sense. >> Yep. And then I think she punted this one back display >> and I was thinking about other towns because I work for a real estate office who's done this and so is other you know and
one person you know one company does it then another company. I do feel cuz I was thinking no I'm you know we really want to stick to our size limit but I look at other towns and and I think it looks f it's accepted in other
communities to give an exception for real estate companies but I I'm the way I see it is real estate companies they're selling those um homes or properties whatever they are just like in other businesses selling
newspaper papers or hardware at the hardware store or whatever it is somebody's selling. So I see that as display because it's displaying the product that the real estate office is selling, >> right? The only thing in our language is
that we say a display that is not attached to a to a window front. >> It's the way I've seen them is they're >> part of a display system. It's not like they're taped up on a window. >> It depends. It depends, right? Some some today are an electronic board where they
just kind of like scroll through, right? You see that today, but you know, I was in Vermont last weekend and it was taped to a glass window in Woodstock, you know. So, it depends on where you are. But I agree with you. I see it as as a display. >> Well, I would say if it's taped to the
window, then that's different to me. But like the systems that look like it's a display system >> and you know whether that's electronic or some other I'm not sure how that's viewed in terms of the electronic elsewhere but
>> but it I see that um as being part of a of a system for display whereas taping something up seems like a temporary sign. >> Mhm. So if it's a system then it goes back to it can't cover more than 25% of the
window and it has to be at the bottom. >> If it's a display there's no >> there's no limit. >> There's not a limit. >> If you think a lot about like department store displays for example, you're not seeing into the store. You're seeing
their display what they're selling. So I kind of >> right >> I think of the >> I'm thinking of the one that William Rivas next to Steel and Right where they're I think that's a system there
and I think most offices that I've seen >> I think the whole thing has a system. >> It's a system >> and I think Kelly and Regi is a >> it's system. >> It would make sense to be a system. I mean, it looks professional and >> yeah, >> you can swap them in and out for what?
After something sells, right? >> So, do they have to get shut off at the close of business or are they on all night long? >> They turn I think ours are turned off. >> They're on the system with the lights, interior lights. I don't know if every office does, but I don't know that either
or on a timer at a certain. Okay. So, I just got another email back from Carolyn Murray and I forwarded it to all of you. Um, it just came in. Um, >> she's watching us. >> She's She's
>> She's good. >> It came in at 7 7:09. Um, so I don't know if all of you can see this or if it would be useful to to just walk through these. They're they're they're pretty much the same questions, but like more
clarification was was asked for from the um from Jay Funing and from Larry Johnson. Um do you how do you want to handle that? Do it's pull it can we pull it up? >> We can put it up there. Yeah, >> we can put it up in the screen and we
can go through it. That's my screen. It's Carolyn's response to Jay and Larry's question. >> Yeah. So, I know you had said yesterday it'd be good to kind of just get that directly to them if we could. >> Yeah. >> Um, yeah, here we go. Okay. All right. So,
um, can you guys see that? It's really small. I don't know if I can make it bigger. >> I can read it on my screen, too. So, >> does everyone does have it? >> Okay. So, um so Larry Johnson had these
specific questions clarification about liability insurance. Um so, it's my understanding from prior draft that the liability liability insurance provision comes from the select board who has been issuing permits for these types of movable signs on public sidewalks. I assume the purpose was to shield the
town from liability. LA. Um, it is unusual to impose an insurance requirement in a zoning bylaw. So, my recommendation was to remove it from the bylaw and put it in the applicable regulations such as select board regulations on signs on or over public property. >> Smart.
>> Every once in a while. Every once in a while. >> That's right. >> Other signs would be on private property and covered by the property owner's insurance. So, um I think there's still unfortunately I think there's still a little bit of
confusion about the difference between the business ones and the ones that are that are the nonprofit ones. So, I think we're we're probably just going to still have to make sure everybody's crystal clear on that because she is saying that you do want to have it you do you know
you want to have that requirement um but not but not necessarily spelled out in the in the zoning bylaw. But don't the nonprofits already have their insurance? Doesn't the boy scouts have their own insurance liability? >> They have it for camping accidents, but I don't know if we have it if somebody trips over our sidewalk side of the
traffic. >> I would imagine there's some kind of a blanket, but I honestly don't know. >> If we had to get that rider, I don't know if it'd be worth it to we don't make that much money in our resale, you know. So, >> um, >> can't they usually just add it? I just
>> because I've had some customers who um just require to be added on to my >> as an insured or add like a rider. >> Yeah. Just actually as an insured. Yeah. And it doesn't cost anything. I don't know >> if you're covered under the policy. Yes. It wouldn't cost because you're because
you're already covered. >> Yeah. She'll insure it. >> I don't know. >> Yeah. So I don't know what our insurance is for that but >> so the requirement for the insurance would come when the permit is issued right. So, as long as the permit issuing
authority, building department, right? >> Yeah. >> When they issue it, as you said, has the schedule >> for you can give them a copy of the schedule for fines. You can give them the information about the insurance. That seems place to do it. >> And then with no insurance, no sign,
right? No proving, >> right? >> You don't get the permit with that, right? >> Yeah. I think as I think as long as we're all talking about just private businesses, I don't think there's I don't think there's going to be I think it should be pretty straightforward. I don't know again over here with the
select boards process with nonprofit. I'm kind of like I'm kind of just putting that over here like we're not anticipating that. We're not dealing with that. That's a separate process. It's not in the bylaw. >> It's crystal clear. You know, you know what I mean? Try to try to get get
everybody there. um because it's not it's not it's not getting addressed here. >> Yeah. And uh just just on that, whether it's a nonprofit or forprofit entity, >> Yeah. >> they should all be subject to insurance requirements.
>> And I guess that would be the select board's >> process, right? >> 100%. But just because it's a nonprofit doesn't mean they're not insured. They certainly are insured. >> Absolutely. So in for most it's a matter of just having your insurance your
property insurance provide you with a rider you know that demonstrates that you have coverage for that sign. So anyhow my only point is doesn't nonprofit profit shouldn't be there should be no distinction. So the question would become I think whether
like the Milton farmers market or the Milton players you know they don't have physical spaces right >> you know do they carry insurance they probably carry insurance at the farmers market in case somebody has an accident there I don't know about players >> yeah and I would assume each of their
vendor has to provide their own insurance >> um as well so >> right >> and and the players I would think that they would in case somebody got injured on stage >> except But the facility well yeah one of their their performers because the facility
would be responsible like where they're performing right >> but if this is if these are nonprofits but it's on public land and that's why we're going through >> it should I would think it would be under the maybe the town's umbrella policy. Oh, I don't know.
>> I don't know. >> If the sign exists as as uh as part of the purpose of the nonprofit, it should still not be the town's responsibility even if it is, right? I mean, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that >> I think Milton Garden Club has Yeah. a
million dollar policy. >> Yeah. It shouldn't matter that the sidewalk is the towns and the sign is on it. What should really matter is who put the sign out there. >> That's the responsible party. Um the reality today with um just I think insurance today there's a tremendous
amount of slip and falls. Tremendous amount >> and this is an area where the town has to be very diligent to make sure that we're protected as a town. So >> yeah. Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Based on this it's not ours any longer to talk about. It's going to be part of
their process for the permitting. >> Okay. So this one this one I really didn't address. Um, and this came back from Larry about the 20% covering being too restrictive. Um, I think we're I think we're reducing
it down to 10%. >> Of the windows, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think the window signs are going >> from the real estate that those are not signs. >> We're not we're considering those displays. >> So, those wouldn't fall. So, the real
that would not fall underneath it. >> But we did. But there were there was one member of the war committee specifically who said well I just think 20% I mean 10% seems too restrictive we should do why are we changing it from what was originally the 20%.
But I do tend to trust the chair of the sign review committee who sees all of these and his because his instinct when we heard him attending our meeting was that's way too large because I think what he sees is you get accumulation of
it's not just one sign, it's all different posted up things and it really starts to junk up a window and and it so it's not just a one uniform sign. It's bunch of things plastered to be, you know, 20% of coverage of a window. So, I
would trust John, you know, there may be push back at town meeting, but I think I, you know, having John address it in his experience as the chair of the sign review committee, I just >> I would defer for him in trusting. >> Didn't he say that nobody's ever gone
beyond 20%. You say like I've never had someone ask for more. >> Is that different? I can't remember if it was that. It might have been just our regular like our >> So, I think we should keep the 10%.
Yeah. Okay. All right. Um, temporary businesses such as food trucks and lemonade stands. Presumably, they would not require a sign permit if the food truck already has a permit for their temporary location like a festival at the Manning Deck or Hutchinson Field
or Porchfest. So um when zoning regulates the use of land, this bylaw regulates signs associated with use of land, not signs on movable vehicles like food trucks, school buses or taxis. If a business is going to be temporarily temporarily located on site, such as for
a festival, the entity permitting the event could also permit the signs. If necessary, we could add to the list of exempt signs, temporary signs associated with street fair festival or similar similar special event. So, she's kind of offering that as a as
a as a way to handle that. Um, it's kind of like with the yard sales, you know, you have to get like a special sign for a yard sale. So, maybe it's a it's a process where they where you have to get a special event sign. I don't know. I don't even know if it
would come up. >> Yeah, I feel like if you if you're a food truck operator, um your margins are a little bit limited. I don't know if we need for them to go and get a special sign >> permit
>> permit >> for an event >> for for a single day event. They're already paying a permit fee to the town. >> I think they should be exempt. >> I do too. Okay,
sounds good. >> I'm not talking about lemonade stands. >> He's going to be the one to tell the 8-year-old. >> You need a bourbon. >> You're starting the pro your processing young. >> Yes. >> Teach them young, Sean. We're going to
be young entreprene. All right. So these are so these are Jay Funling's questions. So his questions were, is the ter term temporary sign used anywhere in the bylaw? What are the rules regarding temporary signs? Can we move the rules that are in the definition of temporary sign into the main part of bylaw, which
I which I think is probably a good idea. So let's see what she says. Fair point. I think section 5B14 should include temporary signs or seasonal holiday lights and decorations under the list of exemptions. So, she's adding temporary signs to to that to
that exemption that's already there for seasonal holiday lights and decorations. So, that's a simple way hopefully to handle that. Um, and then amending section 12D. Oh, now she's got language for temporary sale signs.
Uh, oh, sales crossed out, isn't it? Just temporary signs. >> Oh, I see. I see. Okay. This was just temporary signs. Okay. Um >> but I still like your suggestion that
for any business >> Yeah. Agreed. >> Yeah. For any business, temporary signs, advertising, special promotions may be attached to or located only within the interior of a window or door.
Shall not require a sign permit. So now so now temporary signs that's that's how it's going to it's going to be just those instances within the interior of a window or door can send and calculate totally. Okay
fine such signs must be registered same and then we would change it to the we would change it to the 180 days like we talked about earlier. Yeah, temporary signs. >> I mean, I think I think that works as long as the temporary business signs are
are are that narrow. >> You know what I mean? Where it's inside the building. It's the it's the, you know, interior door or window. Like it's not like a it's not like a temporary banner like like grand opening >> because that won't that won't you won't
be able to do that with this, >> right? Maybe there's another way to do it somewhere else, but you know what I mean. Yeah. Say that again. So, the way this is written, it says maybe attached or located only
within the interior of a window or door, right? These these temporary signs advertising special promotions. I mean, I think it's anticipating, you know, like a typical storefront that puts up, you know, back to school sale, whatever. You know what I mean? But but so if you wanted to put a temporary sign on your
storefront like grand opening banner, right? You're not going to be able unless it's somewhere else. I'd have to go back and look and see if there was another place where that's allowed. >> This is going to go on the definitions, right? And find temporary signs. Is that where this
>> So no, this actually goes into this isn't section 12G, right? So 12G is all of the language. 12 is all that is all the language about signs in the business district. So it's
it's yeah it's either way if the way it's worded it it's it's a it would be a narrow it would be a narrow um you know kind of definition or a narrow uh category I
guess. So, like Eagle Farm could not put out their native corn banner. >> Unless there's somewhere else in here to do it. I'd have to look and see. I'd have to look and see if there's another way to do it. >> Bam that. >> What's a thing? >> I know. >> Well, people want I I mean, I could see
someone wanting to put a grand opening sign up for a couple of weeks. >> Well, and this native corn sign she's mentioning, you know. >> Yeah. >> Um >> get excited to see it, >> right? >> You know. >> Yeah. or even like >> fresh turkeys.
>> Yeah. >> No, >> you know, and let me just >> I'm thinking just >> I have a fruit product outside. I you know, if I have signs on my perennials saying this is hostas are here.
>> That's an outside sign. >> Those be exempt. >> Yeah. I don't I don't I just I can see it from the street. >> I know that's that's a part where Yeah, I think you're kind you're kind of in a bit of a >> Well, once again, >> yeah, you if it's not visible from the street,
>> then it's >> But if you had like a like you used to have like a holiday fair or holiday market or something, >> um you would presumably have some kind of a temporary sign for the day that you have it, right? >> Y >> and it wouldn't be inside a window,
>> right? So, I think that's that's a fair point. Say within the interior of a window or over a door. >> Yeah, because that's where his native
horn is. It's not door. >> So, would they be able to use like a sidewalk? No, because it's on his own property. So, but he could do a sidewalk sign on his own property that said native corn.
>> His banner is nice. I like the I feel like the banner is less >> Well, that was just the first thing that came to mind. There's probably other stuff, too. You know what I mean? >> I could see people wanting to have like those, you know, those things that you stick in the ground and say, you know,
whatever, whatever, >> you know, that type of stuff. Not necessarily like the goofy glowing things, but like you know this the stuff that's temporary like if we're giving 180 days and you're going to be able to put it on the side as a banner that's increasing the signage if it's that
long. So then you're kind of coming back to having something that's less duration. >> I think if it's something on the outside. So maybe it's >> maybe we pair it back or maybe exterior would be a shorter duration than interior.
But I agree that there will be instances where somebody might want that exterior. >> And it would be too bad to deny that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because native porn you're not going to keep up for because people will be coming in and saying, "Well, I you
promised native corn and it's now native tomatoes." You know, it's like Well, it's advertising. Um, but yes, I don't think they would keep it up. >> I don't think they would keep it up in a month. I >> mean, it's a short season. >> What, a month?
>> An ex. So, maybe exterior located within the interior window or door. Do you want to just limit do you want to like limit the limit um temporary signs on the exterior? like don't be as permissive
like you just just don't give them that don't give them that 180 days. Just give them a much shorter like maybe 30 days or something for for something that's on the exterior. >> 60 days >> total >> 60 >> 60 for an exterior banner. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Maybe we call it banner. So it's
not just >> I just want to say temporary sign >> just exterior because that could cover something that >> temp exterior exterior temporary exterior temporary signs are limited to >> 60day something or other
>> 60 days in a calendar year. 60 days in a calendar year. >> Yeah. I think >> something like that because that's fair because that you know that gives people the chance to like do a special promotion or whatever and and um and you know grand opening you know native corn
things like that and it doesn't keep them from using the inside for a much longer period of time for special promotions >> 60 days a month >> I don't know I mean I was kind that that kind of goes back to the you know letting somebody do it like you know
spring whatever or you know what I mean? Like I could see that too. >> Some advertise some have something different in the spring than it is in the fall. >> Right. Right. Right. >> Yeah. So that kind of goes back to that. >> I just felt like 180 on the exterior starts to become permanent signage.
>> Oh yeah. I don't think you want to do 180 on the exterior. >> So 90 90 days. 90 days which is half the time of the interior. >> Gives them like two six week periods. temporary signs are limited to are
limited to 90 days 90 days per calendar year. >> Okay. >> Yeah, that's good. >> This is going to be the most scrutinized piece of zoning in our whole bylaw. >> I'm telling you guys of all things.
>> All right. So, I think that's it. I think that was hopefully those that answers that answers Jay Funding's question. >> Site plan review like you get into it and it there's a lot to it but it's important. >> I just uh have a reflection of taking
site plan review. >> We better make phone calls members. I think what I think they need to understand that a lot of this >> is what happens right now. A lot of this something we've tweaked some things but
a lot of this is the the sign review you know educating them and I think having sort of a what the process is now and then also what um Larry Johnson did which was great is what and he used an AI app which I thought was really
interesting and then filled in some other things but what is different in this bylaw that that from the original bylaw from the bylaw that exists >> you know we can talk about this as we get close to the town meeting, but it might be helpful to have Larry speak,
you know, to this at town meeting. Um because he he >> he is the expert >> and he has a good presentation. >> He does and and maybe Carolyn as well because a lot of the language that we've created here is, you know, is is for the
purposes of being legally correct. >> So, >> so we should really think about how the presentation should be done. Um, and I think the preface of it going back to the science review committee needing
it to be more definitive as the purpose for for doing it. I mean, we need a clear purpose from the be from the outset about why we did it. >> The regulations weren't in the bylaw. had a different places and >> then you know how it becomes
a clearer process with clear much clearer standards that the sign review committee can apply and applicants know in advance. I mean to me that's like >> you're going to be more objective in your review and you're going to be clear
to an applicant what your expectations are. That's what we're trying to do with zoning and consistent what we've been working on. I think That's the same thing with the site plan review. That was some of our objectives there is to make it clear what the
process is and be and have it be that it's predictable and based on objective criteria. I think that's what we've done here >> and consistent with all applicants that all applicants are treated the same. Do they go through the same process? say keep the presentation simple and maybe
just on the differences what what was changed >> because I don't think our meeting is going to have >> no and I think Larry >> they're not going to want to sit through line by line keep it extremely simplified >> yeah and I think you you you say that it
has the support of the sign review committee and you know honestly u I know John's participated a lot I know another member who said that they hadn't another member of that committee hadn't been uh given a copy of it or asked about it. I do think the whole committee
if you ask if you speak to John ask him to review it with the whole committee because just like anything here we we talk about it as a as a board of five people not and and our and our um professional staff. >> I did I did send it out to the to the whole committee. Great,
>> Cheryl. Um, but but it's a good it's it's a good reminder because with these changes, you know, there needs to continue to be com, you know, communication. So, I'll I'll keep um I'll keep, you know, pushing that out. I just try to be I just try to be
sensitive to not getting stuff out there before you guys see it. >> But I think Yeah. and and Larry did do a a really good job in sort of walking through and putting together sort of a flowchart. But I think having a flowchart for the temporary signs too to
you know to have both this is >> yeah I think that would be really helpful. I agree and I think honestly a lot of the town doesn't know we even have a sign review committee so or town meeting. So it would be we'll need that will be part of an education and that
there is you know you want to nonprofit once assigned they go to the sign you know the select board that's like this is what happens now we're just trying to tighten it up a little bit I know that the the current chair of the warrant committee has at recent town meetings
made some presentations on bylaws where in the past it was generally the person the sponsor of the article. So I don't I think a conversation with the chair about what his expectations are or what
uh I I don't think that the moderator want this to be too confusing either, you know. So I think it be kind of be the process thought out in advance. >> Yeah. >> Clear who's doing it, right? >> Yep. I to Well, one of the things that they one of them asked for was like
images of all the different types of types of signs that are that are that are in here. And that's a that that's a great that's that was I thought that was excellent feedback because people don't know don't even know what hap you know they don't they don't even know what these things mean. So so so trying to
trying to strike a balance between like what Maggie was saying about keeping it like at 10 10,000 foot level as much as possible. Sometimes what happens, Liz, >> and this is going to take up so many pages of the part,
>> right? >> We don't have to actually, according to Caroline, print the print put the whole >> Oh, Nick said we do. >> Okay. People are used to it. >> So, it's going to take >> So, the town likes that's how the town does it. >> Okay. It's going to take up so much of
the warrant and there are probably some members that arrive that haven't read the warrant and when the article is as long as this it's very difficult to read and process all of it. I I just I don't know I the only reason
I'm bringing it up is presentation is going to be key to being successful to get town meeting to approve it in the first town meeting. I also think depend the comments that the warrant committee makes can be very helpful and if Larry Johnson writes the comments and he's as
fluent in the language and in the zoning that would could be very helpful to uh Tom members because they have they will have that warrant in advance the ones who do want to read it >> I think others at times have referred to comments when they've gone to speak on
the floor town meeting >> I think I think this and and it probably should be said This addresses the interest of every party in Pilton. It addresses the interest of residents, the building department, the DPW,
select board, businesses. I mean it it is >> the planning department. I mean it it comprehensively serves everybody. Um we should go on otherwise times. >> Yeah. >> 8:45.
So based on these, we're going to need one more round or is this already been sent? >> No, one go to the printer. >> So >> So what >> I just was going to ask the same thing because what I was going to suggest is
and if everybody felt comfortable having Liz work with Carolyn to get the you know to get this cleaned up and then send send it out to everybody for our review. So we'll be have we'll have if we have any comments before the public hearing we can get them to to Liz.
>> So I recall in years past that there's been a question about what's been advertised being what is being reviewed at the public hearing. Now these are changes to something that if somebody got the adver or read the the
advertisement and their expectation of what will be discussed. Remember this. It's like if it's if it's if it's if it's within the scope. >> Yeah, I would ask Carolyn about that. >> I I did have a quick chat with Nick about that too because I was a little concerned about that. >> Yeah. >> Um and so I definitely will follow up on
it. I think the sense is that it's, you know, it has to be >> way outside the scope, right? So like adding, you know, whole new sort of, you know, categories, that sort of thing. I feel like a lot of the stuff we're
talking about is kind of like is kind of like tightening this the language that's already in there. Um and so but absolutely and and and this I guess there really isn't time if we had to sort of like push out the public
hearing. There probably isn't time because I think we really do need the final language early April. So there really wouldn't be time like say say you wanted to try to maybe just sort of grab another bite and just push out the hearing another another two weeks. I don't think that's
>> I'm not clear how now since we just got these at at the meeting here and without having a chance to really digest it all other than our conversation I don't have a good sense whether I you know I think some of it would be outside but I just bring it up because it's it's been raised in the past.
>> Yeah. Um and um >> absolutely >> and process procedure is important to some members and so I think it's it would just be good to clarify. >> So I think it makes sense to break it up
and do it slowly over different town meetings like just do temporary signs, just do backlit signs. Um because it's 17 pages of pretty confusing stuff. into a lot of detail and I think it's
to Sean's point where I don't think a lot of people are going to be researching this. I think they're going to see it all. Questions are going to come up and they're going to kick it back for further study if you take little bites of the apple. >> Well, this is something that's been on our agenda how many times?
>> I know. I like a one and done. >> I really I feel like if it's a it's incumbent upon us to present it in a way that's really clear. Yeah. And and I think it can be done. And I think one of the things that's really key is explain
why you're doing it. And then I think you're right. You explain that we already have a signed bylaw. We already have signed processes. We have this committee. And this will make that work better for as Sean said for all the parties.
And um it's been in discussion for however many months and however many meetings and sign review committee has been invited. The building commissioner you know all of the various parties have been a part of it. Then at that point, you know, town meeting members shouldn't
I mean, you can't prevent them from, you know, taking a look and trying to, you know, uh, say that it needs additional study, I guess, but that to me would be you give them some sense that there's been a lot of due diligence done, that
there's a lot of input provided. Town council's been at table on >> maybe Kathleen O'Donnell would speak. She's reviewed this and sent an email to the chair of the board committee. >> So, it's not something that's been done quickly and without input would be my
point. Want to make sure that's clear. >> And it does protect the town from more sleepies billboards. >> It does. And yeah, it >> emergency here. >> If anybody remembers the whole Yeah. the whole billboard, you know, the upset over
>> hey, you know, how is this possible? How did that get there? >> How did that get there? Two to two granite. Yeah. Which ended up being a petition and >> Dorchester residents were not supportive at all. I mean that's they brought it to Milton and said don't >> it prot Yeah. It protects
>> the one on granite that they did. Yeah. >> Okay. Good. All right. Well, thank you all um for that and and I think if you want to iron that language out um with with Carolyn and then just distribute a copy and and then we'll share that um
>> okay >> with Jay make sure the answer to his questions. Um >> but I would I think before you distribute it, it would be good to get her opinion about the scope. So that that's part of the email that goes out
>> and um Um, and just have any, you know, any comments that our our members might have there was something we missed. >> Okay. All right. Good stuff. Okay.
And if she deems it's outside the scope, then then it can't go in. >> Well, then >> and you move and you move forward. You move forward without that change. >> It is what it is. >> You'd have to have a different recommendation from the warrant committee at that point. >> Yeah. Right? If it's if the change is
outside the scope, then then it can't move forward in this in this process. >> So, you know, then the decision is to move forward with the other 95%. That's that's within the scope. You know what I mean? >> You could even it could still be though the the language that you want, but the process for it is coming through the
recommendation of the warrant committee because that's ultimately what we're voting on. So rather than having it be through us at the >> we've had that happen before where there's been changes we wanted to make at the very end but it couldn't be made by us any longer. So it had to be
>> they had voted on >> and when that was the other question when does the warrant get printed? >> So my understanding is the deadline for that to have everything finalized is the very beginning of April. I don't know when it actually gets printed, but I'm sure it has to.
>> So, we can make that deadline. So, if this gets all accepted and we can vote on it, you know, and after, you know, after the public hearing and um there's no further changes and hopefully I would think it almost seems like what we've done here is made made it less restrictive. We've further we've
lessened some things. I think we could probably make the changes after the public hearing because the public hearing should focus on the language that was advertised, but we've often changed the language between public hearing and final vote, too. It's just
what your what the public's expectation is based on what was advertised is has to be discussed, >> right? >> Yeah, I know. Former member Whitide was the one who brought this up. >> No, that's really helpful. That's really helpful. So it gives you another bite at
the apple basically. >> Yes. >> A separate a separate a separate sort of process. Okay. We got >> So for some reason I I thought I heard that it went to print April 9th but we have a meeting on April 9th. >> We have one on the 26th. So >> yeah. So that's our public hearings on
the 26th. >> 9th too. >> Yeah. So but if it goes to print on the 9th then >> we have no more opportunity after the hearing. >> We don't have any correct we should have an opportunity after the hearing. >> Yes. Yeah, >> if we need a
>> but I don't I don't know. >> And that might be a case where I would hate to call another meeting for that, but we might need to have a meeting that just if we >> if we had to adjust to to do the vote, >> right? Yeah. >> We could do a Zoom, >> right? >> Yeah. >> True. >> Yeah.
>> And it could be during when we were trying to finalize things for the master plan implementation committee, we scheduled a couple things like at noon, right? You know where you could get people at lunch hour or whatever just to get some votes. >> So that's al also a possibility.
>> Yeah. Good. >> I like that. >> Good. All right. Thank Thank you all for right because we would like to get this off our plate and you know move on to um and so that's why the next item and I
just wanted to we put this on on third or Friday th Thursday Friday I can't remember um the the um agenda for the select board came out and they had
an economic development plan review of a scope of work a letter from um a consultant and I called Liz I think right when I learned about it and said wait Liz what's what's happening with this why is there a you know a proposal
for or you know a scope of work under something that the planning board had initiated in >> in 20 in um 20 24 >> and we had begun we met with MAPC we had the meeting So, and Liz wasn't here during that time and actually it had
been started with Tim and then when Tim left and I had followed up with Nick and said, "Where are we, you know, on the next steps and moving forward with the economic development plan and he ex and I I should let Liz actually tee this up because she's gotten more information, but that the funding was no longer
available that the source >> we actually discussed that at one of our meetings. Um, >> it's in the meeting minutes." >> In the minutes. Yeah. Because I looked at it also. Yeah. >> Yep. So, I called Liz and I I said, you know, I'm I'm really confused. And then I watched the select board meeting and
then I became really confused because they allocated funds to a committee that hasn't been formed yet. And there really wasn't a conversation with, you know, work that we that the planning board had initiated. And we've done an incredible
amount of work on the zoning, the overlay, you know, zoning and have really deep, you know, um, we've been entrenched in the zoning and looking at all the different parts of town except for there's one part which I we can discuss too that I think we really would
like to focus on and we brought it up at other meetings on the west side of Milton. you know, sort of some under studied areas, but Liz, do you want to just um because I don't want to say too much, >> do you want to just talk about your
understanding of So, so my understanding is that the, you know, the scope that was originally out there was beyond like the means, I guess, of what was available once that once that funding was taken away or or
that funding dried up. um and that we had Avanti and I had worked on um a DTA application through MEPC and that went in I think we had that on one of it's probably in the minutes or whatnot. Um that that went in sometime like maybe the first or second week of December and
hadn't heard back on that. Um, Nick had asked me to be part of a phone call with Judy Barrett probably like I don't know six weeks ago maybe to talk about how this thing could be sort of like brought into a a a place that you know could be
affordable and right so so um this scope came out um you know I think it's dated like late February maybe February 23rd honestly guys I hadn't even had a chance
to discuss it with Nick. You know, I I in part of me was thinking that, you know, I didn't know anything about this funding. Um I part of me thought maybe this was going to be a scope so that we could go to the community onetop for for grant funding maybe. Um so, um yeah. So,
I I guess I you know, it it's very broad. Um I think there's a desire to um you know kind of understand what the priorities are for the planning board obviously um and um you know it hasn't
gone out for it hasn't gone out for bids so there's an opportunity to sort of craft language in the RFP um that's pretty much all I know I did I I I I the information about you know it being sort of with the master plan committee that's kind of something new
as Well, um, so yeah, that's I mean I'm I'm I'm still, you know, I'm I'm just I'm just trying to stay stay, you know, on top of >> I'm wondering Yeah. And I'm wondering if part of it was thinking, well, the master plan committee already has some
funds, so maybe we can piggy back on those funds and we would go through the master plan committee because there's already a good bucket of funds. we want to make sure we use the, you know, those funds get used. They could piggyback with some of that free cash funds on top
of that. >> Yeah. >> But I I think either I I think maybe the members of the select board didn't know that that it had been initiated and it's been one of the goals of the planning board to to see this at some point. Um,
>> I don't know, Meredith, I think you're being really too kind about that. I feel like we've worked a lot and if and if the select board and Nick Milano is not paying attention to us, that's a problem for me. Like we're all volunteers. We spend a lot of time.
>> We spend a lot of time on this and we've talked about this economic development plan. >> We we we met um on um in in 2024. We we had MAPC come to our meeting. >> We've asked about it.
>> We've asked about it. So to me, I think you're being too kind and and it's kind of disrespectful, I think, to our board. I feel like this is another thing that they're hijacking
from us. I listened to the selectman's meeting the other night and I was shocked that Nick said, "Oh, I've um reached out to the planning board for their input." So, this was on Tuesday night and I said,"I haven't been reached
out to for our input." I said, "That's a disingenuous statement." I said, "Maybe I missed something." So, I went to the email and I think you had sent an email at a dry >> 4:23. 4:23 on Tuesday, we we got an
email from you and I'm like, this is >> this is his idea of um reaching out to the planning board a mere hours before he says publicly that he's reached out to the planning board for our input. That I I feel like that was a
disingenuous statement. I actually that was that was more that was more I think in response to Meredith's phone call which was which was that you know that the um that it was on the the agenda that it was on the agenda for the select board. So so I wanted to make sure that
that I didn't I didn't want I wanted I wanted to make sure that it was on the agenda >> so that we could discuss it. So So honestly that that's honestly how that happened. Yeah. >> I mean, I'm just being I'm just being what is in that letter and and you were >> I didn't I didn't want to be I didn't
want to be talking about something that wasn't hadn't been on the board. So that was that was the timing with that. >> No, you were. >> So I don't think that was he made an accurate statement. So >> I don't have an email from Tuesday and >> so I'm a little annoyed at that. And also during that meeting, you know, one
member said that um she was appointed chair of Empic. And so she um select board talked about giving um the new master plan committee $85,000
in uh funding. Well, it was this is 55,000. They have a budget of 30,000. So it it was an increase of money to bring up the budget of the new committee to 85,000. and a select board member said, um, well, um, I don't think we need 85,000
as the new chair. I don't think we need that. So, how can So, then I was confused by the process. How can a a a chair be chosen when the committee has not even been formed yet?
only two members or three members have been um appointed >> by the select board >> by the select board. None of the other members have been appointed yet. So, how can how can a chair be appointed? How
can money be allocated to a committee that's not formed yet? Um, and how come there's only one committee in town, one nonelected committee in town that gets funding?
There's just one and that's this committee. And to me, that's concerning to me and that hasn't really been the process with Empic. And you've been on Empic and has anybody ever told you how to spend your
money? like no one's ever really told you because Empic has been funded for 30,000. So now you're being the Snoop Committee is being directed or told how to spend their money >> because maybe maybe there's >> well the way Empic did it in the past
you know in the very beginning we had some ideas of what we thought this funding would go towards and we presented that in the annual budget request and then sometimes it was hard to predict what some of it might be that would come up because people would come
to us and ask us for help. Um and so it was always though for studies for planning and studies. Um what one of the things like I was looking um in my long records I had a
folder called market analysis from 2019 and 2020 and I I pulled this out just because I asked Liz if if Judy had provided an example of of what kind of report that would be supplied with this scope of work. And like this one um is
something that I think has a lot of really good information, but just in it the title it says um business district assessment and market analysis to inform future zoning infrastructure improvements and other potential
actions. Um, so you know to one of the things that we talked about was we're not seeing applications in the Milton Village and uh with the overlay. We're seeing a little bit with under the business district what we saw with the
Bank of America building, but we're still not seeing what we thought we might this many years later. And part of what we talked about needing was a market and business mark you a retail market analysis and the kinds of things that that are went into this report which was in Stow um are I don't see
specifically outlined in this scope and so it seems to me like um we would want to be as the one who has spent as the board has spent so much time over the years looking at these
districts and looking at where um the zoning might be an impediment that we should definitely be um involved in at least scoping it. And um as far as like that committee itself um you know we we do need to get on with
our appointments to it so that you know we would have uh participation the way it was it was viewed. you know the um you know when the committee made its recommendations
um as in the final report was there was additional work that needed to be done and economic development was something that members felt very strongly about. So I I I think that that questioning that you know is in terms of being something new. I don't think that's
something new. I think that's something that was clear in the report is that we felt that the that committee, you know, the EMPIC committee felt like that was an important next step, but it should be a collaborative one. Um, and we need to make sure that we put on our agenda, you know, and and I don't know the timing of
that, but um uh but I agree that the committee shouldn't really get going um until all the members are appointed at least. decide the timing >> and I think it just it needs to be a bigger conversation like you said a
collaborative effort at at minimum but I do feel that um that we have such deep knowledge and experience and the idea and and maybe we need to talk about to what capacity are we are we
looking and is it timely um to do the entire town because I do feel like Milton Village since that has happened. We have Bank of America. We do know that in the we have a conceptual plan from JD which would take advantage of the mixed
use the doing the housing and it's a great plan. We have he has acquired five properties down there. So there's there's things are in the works but you know D has held that up. So he's been, you know, working through that and obviously wants to
finish Bank of America. But there are things that are percolating now because of that that we have not seen the results from. So to go in and say I think we need to we need to upzone Milton Village, especially now with MBTA
zoning that we've also done. >> Well, who said we need to upsell Milton Village? >> Well, no. If you if if somebody's going to say, "Well, it's we're not seeing applications, so we need to maybe increase." >> Well, it might be that the parking requirements are something or it might be that some other requirement in there needs to be tweaked. We haven't tweaked
it in in the time since it's passed. >> I don't know think in time, but and the other piece I I'll just say is East Milton, we actually have to technically vote on the guidelines because we never we we accepted them, but we never formally voted, which Liz caught. The
ink is barely dried on that. to go back and have a consultant go go back to the East Milton neighborhood and say, "We're doing public outreach because we want to look at, you know, we want to look at, you know, >> development isn't happening fast enough. >> We're not having Yeah, we're not having
enough development. >> That's what this is. >> They I think we I think their heads would explode. I I think they are so >> East Milton is they have gone through the Judy Barrett process. They've gone through the mil the East Milton overlay process. They've gone through the MBTA
process. They are burnt out as a neighborhood. I They are just They're like, "We just can't go to more meetings and talk about >> But we were saying that we wanted to finish the the market study." Sorry, Sean. We wanted to finish the market study and I think we do. You're speaking
almost like you don't want to finish the work that was started. I want to have a bigger conversation because are we going to spend all of this money to really hear the outreach the public input that we've been hearing from the neighborhoods and all the public forums? We I mean we want to talk about it. We
have been wanting to do economic development. I think there's different approaches and I had asked Liz what was the scope the difference in the scope of I haven't really even read Judy Barretts but what versus what MAPC had put together. What are the difference in in
those two? And really addressing and one of the questions I said for Liz is because I think this is a big part of it. What are the future revenue um projected revenues from all the prop all the development that we have all that we
have just to have a baseline like all the things that are permitted under construction. >> Do we have those forecasts? And I've heard Nick refer to revenue from building permits, but I don't if there are if there are numbers out there for projected revenues for the memory care
for the 40B projects that are completed and under construction for for 4040 granite. Are those numbers somewhere which we could because I I think the select board has a lot of pressure on them right now because everyone's saying the budget's so tight. We need more
commercial development. We know we've all heard that. we need why don't we have more commercial development in the town I don't think they people understand how much we have permitted in the pipeline which as a baseline I think before you know in doing an economic
development plan look at all of the things under construction and permitted what are we because I think we have a lot of revenue um I think this year we were up a million dollars in revenue in our budget um correct me if I'm wrong >> four and a half
>> we have four and a half cash >> four and a half free I I thought >> at the end of the year >> yeah but year okay well and if that's our total number but um I think it was projected to be less before the school so I might be quoting old old
data old information >> that was stock market gains aren't there any >> I just think it we want to be part of that conversation and we have the experience in in doing the zoning I'm not sure and I think it could be a collaborative effort But the fact that
the planning board was not included after we've had this and I sent Nick prior to the meeting a list of our goals and economic development plan was is one of the planning board's goals. So are we all doing economic development plans? You know I'm but sorry I let you speak.
>> That's okay. >> To the point that you're making there we shouldn't plead for anything. The other planning board we're the elected board. We should expect that it is our duty to handle that issue 100%.
And if there's going to be a study related to economic feasibility, it would be foolish to have someone other than the planning board do it. Every single study that's been done and overlay that's been created happened
with this board. So why would not the planning board be the responsible group to do that? There's no one in town that knows the East Milton Overlay better than the planning board. There might not be anybody in town that knows the East
Mil better than you. You're a member of the planning board and you're first and foremost a member of the planning board before you're a member of anything else. you know that is your highest and uh most responsible duty to be a member of the plane board as it is mine as it is yours as it is Jims and as it is
Meredith's and you know to suggest that some other group is going to do that I think is reckless as a town um it should be expected of us and we should expect it of ourselves the master plan committee was supposed
to be an advisory group that's how it was pitch to us. >> I think we would all >> the intent. >> Okay. Well, that's that's >> I presented to you, right, is advisory. >> That's that's exactly right. Now, let's be realistic.
Anything in life that's rushed usually isn't done as well as it could be. The master plan committee bylaw was rushed. We were never part of a process to discuss what the charter of that group was.
All of a sudden, days before town meeting, we start to learn of this master plan committee. There was no collaboration between the master plan committee and the planning board or anybody else in town, the the the director. You had just arrived,
you know, as to what the master plan committee was going to do and what their responsibilities would be. Anybody that says right now that they declare themselves the chair of the master plan committee, in my opinion, that has no validity.
The chair is typically chosen once the committee is fully formed. And the chair is typically chosen by the group of people that represent the body. That's proper procedure. I don't know. I don't know how this stuff starts and where it starts.
I do think that there's there's concern about revenue and this this notion of an economic
feasibility study is rooted in the idea that we need to create tax revenue. And it's it's further rooted in the idea that solving some of our financial problems in Milton is going to be achieved by changing the
commercial tax base. Um, I've said it before and I'm going to continue to say it. Changing the commercial tax base in Milton is very hard to do and it's going to make
such a small fractional change in Milton. people don't seem to get it. So, if people don't understand that, I'm going to refer back to an email that I asked of Nick Milano in February
of 25. So, this information is one year old, but it may have changed, but it didn't change much. So, my question was real simple. I have a question that would be helpful to know the answer. Can you inform me of the commercial property tax revenue that
Milton collects on an annual basis the most recent year as both a percentage of our total property tax revenue and as a total dollar value for the commercial property tax? This is his answer. I've attached two reports which give more detail, but
here's a brief summary of the value in tax revenue generated by them. In fiscal year 2025, residential value was 95.63 63% of the total assessed value in Milton 95.63.
Commercial was 2.02% industrial was 06% and personal property was 2.29%. So just to help explain what personal property is, Nick describes it. It's primarily the utility company's conduits
and poles. Now on to the values. So the total levy in 25 was 101,939,000. The residential portion of that was 93.47. So that means 95,291,000
came from the residential. That's 95 out of 101. The commercial was 3,72,000 3%. So look at it this way. The entire commercial revenue in Milton is 3% of
the total and it's $3 million. If you wanted to find $3 million more in tax revenue, double the commercial that we have in town, double it when it's not even possible to double it. No matter what you do,
this idea of economic feasibility, thinking that we're all of a sudden going to find a windfall of commercial tax, it is a fool's errand. It's a fool's errand, but yet we continue to talk like we can. The magic wand we don't have.
Let me finish with this. The industrial levy is $96,000 543. The personal property, this is what I mentioned earlier that Nick described as primarily the utility company's conduits and poles. That portion is 3,478,000.
That happens to be more valuable to the town of Milton than the commercial tax base. We collect more on poles and utility infrastructure than we do on commercial property. If the residents could understand this, maybe when these
conversations start about let's create more commercial businesses in Milton so we can increase the revenue. We we we're wasting our time. So just consider all of that. Now, we've
recently created the overlay in East Milton Square, which outlines the zoning that's acceptable to the town. Past in town meeting, right, for East Milton Square. We've created the overlay in Milton Village, right? So, that area has been addressed.
We're building multi-unit residential projects all over town. That might be a generalization, but it is all over town. You can find it from east to west, north and south. Some of the properties that that's occurring on were properties that we
could have built commercial. We tried to build a commercial project over on Randolph F. That was not acceptable to the town of Milton. So, what do we have there now? We have a residential project. Now, on the other side of the street, we have a residential project. We have two residential projects going up in East
Milton. And if people are wondering why something isn't happening in East Milton, for example, what business owner would go into East Milton right now with 92 units being built behind Abbeby Park and 34 units, I think, being built at 440,
they they you know, they have no you would be reckless to go into East Milton Square and invest in a business right now. You have no idea what it's going to look like or how it's even going to function or how people can get there or can't get there. So, in addition to those zoning overlays
that we've created, we passed the MBTA Communities Act and created the zoning for that. The reality of it is there was plenty of property in around the Elliot Street area that would have been perfect for commercial development. Perfect.
But we gave that up. So the question is how does it make good sense to do an economic feasibility study for what? >> So Sean I'll wrap it up but
I guess this idea that someone else is going to take that charge really troubles me. Um, as I said earlier, the master plan committee was supposed to be advisory advisory to us. This this body is the
one that knows the zoning that exists in town better than anybody else. And if anything's going to be done, it should be done by the planning board. But I would argue that it might not make a lot of sense given what we've already done, you know, to spend more money on an economic feasibility study, given the
restrictive nature of what already exists in Milton, the limited change that we could make, you know, the zoning that's already been created. Yeah. Might there be some tweaks? Do you think we need a study to to to do that? I and and if it
happens, it should be us. And you know what? Really, you know, if the committee's function is to make recommendations to the planning board, that's what they should do. Make a recommendation to the planning board. Don't circumvent the planning board by trying to get the
select board, you know, to help them get funded for a study that they want to do. You know this you know it's not this this has crossed my mind
when a group of people believe that the members of the planning board might not agree with them they create their own committee or try to >> and fun it. So
I think um it's it wouldn't be a dereliction for the select board to think that they should have a role in looking at a market analysis. I think they they are taking
their responsibility at looking at the budget challenges that they're hearing about from every department and from the school committee. I don't have any concerns about them wanting to get that economic or that market study done that
we've been wanting since 2024. >> The question is how should that be done and who participates in it. >> So I really to me that's what's most important and then beyond that is the scope. I questioned the scope we had before long ago when it first came out
to us in 2024 and I said we really need to think about we've heard from residents that would like to have some amenities near them in >> in uh West Milton and they don't want to have to leave and go so far away. So we should do a study for them in their
neighborhood and what would they find acceptable just like we did in East Milton and just like we did in Milton Village. >> I agree with that. And so then you know I think also people are have said we don't want more nail salons and hair salons and real estate offices. So how
do you look how do you attract experiential retail the kinds of places where you want to go meet up with your neighbors or your kids want to go meet up with a friend. That is part of the market analysis that I think is important. Look at our business districts.
Why can't people do more investment in them? Are their second floors fully rented out? Are they keeping their tenants? You know, talk to people who own the bents. How is it with your tenant mix there? That's a true mixeduse project. You've got retail, you've got office, you've got housing. How is that
working? And learn from all the businesses that we have and learn from uh people who have tried to attract businesses like you know, you mentioned the largest property owner in Milton Village. He came to an Empic meeting to talk about what he heard from potential
tenants about coming to Milton. That's the kind of thing we need to hear about. We need to learn about, you know, are we missing opportunities because of our zoning or because of our processes or because of our reputation or what has it? There are some opportunities to
reinvest. That's why we wanted the Milton Village zoning. That's why we wanted the East Milton zoning. And so like is it big enough to make a big chunk that somebody has established as a number? I don't know what number that is, but I think we owe it to the residents of the town to look at it and
to tell them here's what's possible within this structure with this within this framework. And if you want to hit a different target, then you've got to look at a different framework. That's part of our responsibility in my opinion. I do think we need to have a
role in setting the scope and in the the process process with the consultant to have it done. >> Exactly. >> The the >> I think the answers to the questions are here in town already. >> That's >> they are. >> Yes.
>> Ask the current business owners what works, what doesn't work, what kind of relief do you need? the the the answers that these business have, these business owners have, and they're the ones that are trying to succeed here in Milton, >> that's the answer that you need. You
know, hiring somebody to perform a study is is is not going to be as real and and as accurate as polling every business in East Milton Square and every business in the village. You will have no idea about what the other market factors are if you
don't have somebody who draws on a broader audience than what the businesses and property owners who already exist here are. If people say all the time, I love going to this town or that town. Their main street is beautiful, has all this activity. Well, how did they get that? >> Can I ask you a question? Do do you know
what spaces are available in East Milton right now? What open spaces are available in East? >> I don't think there's one >> right now. Peel is gone. Peele is gone. I heard because of cleaners. There's three vacant re upped.
>> No, but Peel could be just temporary. I thought they were changing all >> been three months. There's three vacant. There's three vacancies right now. >> Peele. >> Well, the Milton Cleaners. >> Yeah. >> And Grown and Christie. >> Okay.
>> So, Peele's closed. They're not vacant, but if you every every time I go by, I look in the windows and and there's more and more raw material leaving there. nothing's going on. >> So, so I guess the question is what is it in your opinion? What is it that you would like to see in any of the empty
spaces? We we won't identify any one of them, but what is it that would be appealing to have in Milton for a business type of use? >> It's not for me to give you my opinion. That's the public. Your opinion matters a lot. I've been
here 12 years. >> You've been a representative opinion. opinion. >> You've been a representative of 10 years of that of the empicic. I mean, you must have an opinion. Your opinion's valid. People are watching and listening. You're what? But what um >> I hear when you go on social media, for
example, and somebody did recently, and they said, "What would you like to see here?" You get all kinds of ideas and there's some creative ideas. That's the process that we should have that where people can see that outside of Facebook which I know you're not on and I don't look at regularly but that was something
I saw and I do think there is a um an interest uh in the residents you know um if I think about when I moved to Milton which was in 1998 it was before there was Abby Park was before Navara it was
before Seal and Ry and it was before Madre and it was when there There was no no restaurants could exist because they didn't it was dry town >> and there was very few there were very few places to go get a cup of coffee or a sandwich or meet up with somebody in
town and if we think about many people have seen that those are I loved Joe's town deli was >> but many people had said have been very appreciative of those businesses that have opened and they see them now as an
integral part of of Milton and So what other things would they like to see? We saw when uh JD Wild and and Dan um Carrian from U Steel and Ry came with the two Elliot or two Adams to Elliot >> to Elliot
>> two Elliott project that concept was maybe not something that anybody had like if if they asked if you asked them the question they may not have answered that but once they saw their concept we saw their concept we said that's a wonderful concept and so I think uh it's
it's that process that's important um and it's also part of a bound in the professionals who know who done research who know have been looking at what the retail market environment is like since the advent of like the Amazon's and also
since um co you know people are spending their retail dollars differently and so we can't just have a wish we have to understand you know that pe so many people have said I'd love to see a Trader Joe's in various contexts
>> and yet you you. So that's the thing. So like what would it take to have a Trader Joe's and then do people want that? So that's the kind of question. It's a open process. So >> the question is if you get a Trader Joe's then our longestablished specialty
um uh grocery store may not be able to compete. >> So So just just and I've spoken about this in the past. Um, I I I asked the question because I I really do want to understand um just just before anybody watching this
gets this idea that a Trader Joe's is is possible or isn't possible, East Milton Square is limited by geometry, right? It's the geometric space that's going to define what size a business's space can
be, right? Just look at that area. The building is the building. The spaces are the spaces. They're going to be small boutique-like businesses. That's all that you're going to have in East Milton Square. Unless the owner of that property decides he's going to tear that building to the ground and try to build something that would accommodate larger
square footages, that's that's it. I mean, it those spaces are the spaces and and and you know this because you know, if if Trader Joe's ever approached you and said, "I'd like to get into Teilton Square." The conclusion you're eventually going to come to, there's no place that would fit you. Trader Joe's
is 8,000 square feet 10 I built Trader Joe's >> parking spot to Trader Joe's. So the so the greatest restriction that a business owner has no business owner is going to open a business in Milton unless it's a viable business. It has to be a profitable business. The restrictive
nature is how much is the is the property owner willing to lease or rent their space at? That's the most restrictive. But then the other is all the other factors. Where can you park your car? How is someone going to come to my business? You know, I'm just looking at this very
realistically. When you look very realistically at East Milton Square, if no one's going to race in to and I I happen to love coffee shops. Would I love another coffee shop in East Milton Square? Absolutely. Absolutely. But the only way that's going to happen if somebody thinks they can have a viable
business in East Milton Square and what are we going to do to attract, let's say, if somebody said, "Let's get a coffee shop in Milton." What do we do to get the coffee shop in Milton? Can we change the parking? Probably not. We change it for everybody if we change it for him. The rent is going to be based on what the property owner wants for it,
you know, and there's two coffee shops that already exist there. So maybe it's not easy for a coffee shop to to exist there. But there are so many barriers to changing the makeup of the shops, the retail, the boutique businesses in Milton. And and I don't think an
economic feasibility study is is going to, you know, be be the, you know, the formula to get us there. I I you know, honestly, we can spend 10, 20, 30, 40, $50,000. I don't I don't know that we're going to be able to change the circumstances that
prevent people from coming into the area. >> So Sean, you say that this study belongs in the hands of the planning board, but you've been arguing why we don't need to do a study ever since you said that first. If there's a study, Cheryl, I think it should be ours because the zoning, you know, who understands the zoning of the town better than the
planning board. >> Are you open to a dialogue with the community? Does it sound like you've already made your >> No, no, I'm not. I'm not. But, but I am. What I'm speaking to is, you know, >> you know, you absolutely the these ideas
get out there and people think that we can all of a sudden solve some of our problems in Milton financially with a commercial tax base. What I said to you earlier isn't something I made up. That's an email from Nick Milano. You know, if if pe if what's driving people
is the idea that we can create greater tax revenue and substantial track tax revenue, I I can assure you based on what Nick Milano has said to me a year ago and what is probably true today, that's not going to happen. That's not going to happen. You can't. It's just not possible. Remember, we'd have to
replicate 100%. would have to double the commercial value in Milton to go from 3 million to 6 million a year. >> So, do you want an economic development study? Sean, >> yeah, Cheryl, I'm not opposed to it, but I want to be realistic. I'd like to be realistic. That's all I want to be. >> What's the realistic?
>> We just did the East Milton Square overlay and nobody wanted to expand the district. Nobody wanted to make some residential space. >> You're saying >> the neighbors well >> did not want to expand. That's that's not a townwide analysis.
>> So this is um so I think you know as a brickandmortar business owner >> um you know businesses go to places where they can make money to your point and if you can't make money they're not going to do it. So we're thinking of looking
at properties outside of our commercial districts. >> I don't know if it said that in the scope. So um so existing businesses as a brickandmortar business but that's the only place where
um businesses can really truly expand. I have the parking I have the land yet I cannot expand. My permit limits me to what business I did in 2012. 2012 and then when the planning board
issues my business a permit and it gets appealed, the select board chooses not to defend the permit that the planning board issued. So we have a select board who is not defending the permits
when another board issues them. And that's a problem. That's a problem. Why would any business come to town? We don't need an economic. We don't need it. Just come and ask the businesses. Ask the businesses. When
anybody comes to me and say, "How's business coming in Milton?" I say, "The select board does not support my business." When an appeal happens, I have to defend the work of the planning board. And that should not be true. So
we're we're get putting the cart before the horse. We need to change our internal processes first. Um before we move on to anything else um because it's it's the select board and it's not
select boards from years past. It's this select board. It's this select board because this is what my appeal is happening right now current day. Um, so it's it's live, but I agree. We to Sean's point, I exact I thought the
same thing. We have so many smart business owners in town, retired, current. Why if we are we are short on money? Why are we spending $55,000 on a study? Why don't we do a um community
engagement with all of these current business owners? We have business owners who started staples into who live in town. Why don't we have a forum and then we can ask them and we can generate all the the groundwork before going out and
spending $55,000. Um and then we can look at all we all know where we need development. We all know that. We know what side of town, you know, up on Blue Hill A at um the old temple. That's a perfect place for
some type of business. >> But the neighbors did not want >> the neighbors didn't that got shut down because the neighbors didn't want it. The neighbors didn't want it. So what we have to do is we shouldn't be looking at things town wide, >> but it might have been the businesses that were going in there.
>> We should look at that neighborhood like if I that's what I would like to do. >> I should not be telling the people up on Blue Hill A um what they should put in their neighborhood. The Blue Hill A people should come be part of a forum for just that area and say this is what
we want to see. The East Milton come you know my neighborhood come all these neighborhoods can come individually and not do like a complete townwide study but carve out places and and do it in a smaller area. I think the scope was
originally remember it was the business districts and we said that we wanted to think about at least um the part of West Milton that was asking for amenities. I also said I thought we should look at the pre-existing non-conforming
businesses that have are really hampered because they have to get a special permit for anything they want to change and that's not friendly to business. you just said and I think you would agree that all of those other businesses should be looked at. That's the baseline. I don't think anybody's start
is talking about anything. I don't think it when I I read this briefly the barrack because it just we just got it yesterday. Uh but I didn't see anything beyond that in here either. Uh so um I I don't I think there's a rush to
um judgment about what the intent of this is. I think we need to have a conversation about what the intent is. I think we should work collaboratively. I've heard some people here already have sound like they don't want to work on this and you know that's different from
what we've talked about in the past where we've said it is something that we we want. I think it is one of our it is one of our goals. But I think I think what Sean is saying is trying to be realistic that that we shouldn't because we do hear a lot with this budget with you know
>> you can identify me. You can identify me as Shawn instead of some people. I'm not opposed. I'm not opposed. Okay, we'll say Sean and Maggie cuz I'm going to refer to you as Cheryl. You know, not some people. Um, but you know, I I I want I want to approach anything like
this, you know, practically and realistically, and I want to utilize the information that exists in town before we bring a consultant in. And and I believe what I said earlier, if you want to understand what makes business successful or what hinders success, ask
the people that are trying to operate a business in Milton right now. That's where we should start. We don't need a consultant. We could use a consultant to do that. We could spend money to do that, but we could probably do that ourselves. >> I haven't looked at you said you haven't read the scope yet. So, you need to read the scope to see if the town business members can do this themselves and and
then we can discuss whether we think it's a good idea to what we decided in 2024, which was to hire a consultant to help us with this. And I really feel like what we're talking about here is well beyond what we initially talked about, which is wanting to have a role and a participation in advancing the
economic development study that we agreed to in 2024. >> And I agree with that. And I what I was going to say is because I don't think there's anything more that we can say that we've already said on this, but um let's I have not had a chance to really review what the scope is. Um I want to
go back and look at what MAPC what we had agreed to what they were going to do. It was a >> sort of a bigger picture. So >> if you could just Yes. Did you say is that what she I don't know >> the slide presentation was just the scope scope of work.
>> The proposal was from um April 19th of 24. So just so we're clear, we got money 24. >> We got money and we did what? Phase one of an economic feasibility study. Then we ran out of money and then it just
stopped. Is that what happened? >> The money was clogged back. >> So we were still Yeah. And so we're still waiting to get the work product. We haven't seen the work product. So, in one of these um minutes from last fall,
it said like $14,000 were were spent, >> right? >> So, what did we get for that $14,000? So, >> that slide presentation that you >> I don't think the slide presentation cost $14,000. >> They definitely had done work beyond that. And that's I thought they came in
and gave a presentation and I was trying to find that present. >> Yeah. No, I don't think so. >> You don't think so? I don't know. >> So that's what 14 grand gets you. And then so now we're not getting the funding. So the select board decided to alloc or is thinking about allocating
>> 50 grand for the Barrett >> project. Is that >> I think they already did, right? They did not vote. They did not take a vote. >> Their intent is to take 50 G's, give it to the Mic, and have them start all from scratch. >> 55. So I they did not they did not go
into the the they didn't even go through the line by line of the scope. >> That's okay. So we're having this conversation but the select board is pushing forward with this 55,000 regardless is what is what I >> well and and also too the the procurement yet it does have to be
procured. So so to work with this exact scope is it's premature. So this is this is more this is this I think was more to sort of get the you know get sort of the the you know >> the the the edges of it as opposed to the details of exactly you know what's
going to be in the >> So why wouldn't we go back out to MAPC since we've already they've already done $14,000 worth of work. So why go to somebody new to to start the process all over again? And I will say we did get a it was an
email that I received at 3:55. Um Liz, I don't know if you saw it because you were dealing with Carol and stuff. Um but it said, "Good afternoon. On Tuesday night, the select board agreed to support an an appropriation of 35,000
from free cash to support zoning bylaw recodification work by the planning board. I will be updating the budget to increase the planning board studies studies budget to 85,000 from the original planned appropriation of 50,000. I have also informed the warrant
committee which would still need to make this recommendation as well. So they need to get a recommendation for the warrant committee on that >> for codification >> for the recottification. There was no nothing about >> they're they're paying for this is the
way is that I'm sure I'm not totally missing something. >> That's what my instinct what we should why aren't we continuing by for some reason >> it's going back and and sort of wasting throwing that money away that we've already appointed right >> I thought that we had asked that you
were going to speak to them and find out how much it was because we have money in our budget. I thought that's where we last left it. >> Yeah. So, um, >> so, so say that again. So, so I was going to go back to MAPC. >> Yes. >> And see if there was the what
>> planning money that was in this current year's budget if that could meet I we did have a we had a conversation with Angela Brown. We Avanti and I were talking about this before the meeting um in trying to trying to get a sense of like what what how the scope could be
sort of like fit into like the funding that was going to be available whether it was like you know planning study money that was still on the table for the planning board or um or the DTA and I think it ultimately it ended up sort of getting kind of rolled up into this DTA application and that's sort of where
we left it. You know what I mean? like it didn't really go be it didn't it didn't >> it didn't advance it didn't advance beyond that we were sort of waiting on a response on the DT >> and Angela Brown was she was one of the presenters of this presentation back in
uh 24 so there was not a total change of um staff so the the the funding might have been pulled but there I I thought it was said there was um the staff was discontinued where there was not
continuity in the staff. But if you're saying you talked to Angela Brown, I rewatched this presentation and Angela Brown was the one who was on Zoom. So there was some continuity in staff. So they're not starting from ground zero.
>> That's Let's be clear, too. This board even, you know, prior to your arrival had been asking about a status update on this work ever since it started. Yes. >> And um and we have funds available. So for it
that's why this I think the reaction was a surprise here that this is going this a separate p uh track with this is happening when it's something that we've worked on the planning department to the planning department. In fact, when Tim Zerwinsky was here and he first had this
grant and this work um idea, he was thinking about whether it should be the master plan implementation committee that would be the landing point for the grant money and the work or whether it be the planning board. The planning board said we wanted to do it and uh
said fine, we'd like to be in the loop what what's happening with it because it's part of the plan and what the recommendations are. And so, uh, uh, I just feel like, um, part of it was
the funding being, uh, pulled, but part of it too is just the churn in the in the planning department overall. >> And so, I I don't think, um, we ever intended as a board to drop it. >> No. And I I think that if if MAPC
could finish the work that they were contracted to do, um and obviously they would need to look at the funding since it's a couple years ago, but um you know, I've got their proposal here and it's and it's clear um
that they were going to initially work on East Milton Square, the Milton Village that the central lab and then everybody forgets we have a business district which is two granite a um but we at that time had
said we were interested in in the what I said before West Milton andforming pre-existing >> yes >> and and and people have been interested in what this what's the challenge with the mix so we've been consistent about that um and I
you know I don't um you know Judy Barrett's uh firm term obviously has worked in Milton. They do a lot of work, but comparing the two scopes, I haven't done I because I just we just got this one. >> Um, but if they have a different intent than
what we were doing here and I think, you know, do we want two different reports, two different consultants? It's just a conversation. >> That's what I was >> Yeah. And that was I I meant to open >> $50,000 bills also. I don't think anything
>> and we would I I personally I would refer to the board members but like to convey through Liz that the planning board would like to continue with the work with NAPC that we started. I was I thought they were doing a great job and and it was you know moving along until
out of our control. >> And then I also like to know how much funding we have left in our fiscal year budget this now. >> Okay. So that was also my question is how much did Empic end up with in their budget? So when it ended and so where
did the so that >> that committee sunseted and so where did those funds go? >> So in that article they got u transferred to a new committee >> to the new so how many >> and it's about $27,000. So they had said I think on Tuesday that
they had uh they didn't mention what they what the new committee has. They just said the new allocation um they that the new committee would get $30,000 then they would add this
$55,000. So the new committee would have 85,000. And so in my mind I'm like, okay, this is the only com appointed committee that has a budget at 85,000 than ours >> and that is bigger than our budget. So that's another problem for me. How can a
nonelected board >> committee >> committee have more money than an elected? So So there were many issues I had and and the other one is do we need it? Um, but that Tuesday night watching
the selectman's meeting that was not in my going through my mind. It was the process was I was annoyed at it. The process. Um, and then knowing because I've been sitting on the this budget committee, knowing how tight
money is, I was just surprised that they were kind of handing out, you know, money when the town doesn't seem to be having money. So, we're handing out more money to a committee, a non-elected
committee, um, to spend on a study when we have so many studies out there that we haven't done anything with. Anyway, so I had a couple different issues going on. One was just being overlooked and the, you know, the process being
hijacked from us and then financially a financial issue. Is there a way that we can as a town save spending that $55,000 and do some of the work on our own? Not to say I don't want to study it or anything like that, but is there a way
to save some money because um the finances are so tight? >> So, was it the select board's intent to allocate the money, have the study, and give it to the Empic, or were they talking about doing the work on their own? No, it's their intent to fund the
new committee master plan the master just a master plan >> appointed and then have this study and have them pursue this. >> Correct. >> And that's why I was confused because I I think the select board >> might not have known all the work that we did with with MAPC.
Nick knew. >> Nick knew. >> Nick knew. And that's and so to throw that money out the window I just >> well let's see how much it would be for them to finish the work >> because I think that >> and that's that is a key and then >> and just and just to be responsive too
about the question on the the expenses under that initial contract. I know they'd come out and done a public meeting with you folks and and what have you. There there is a draft existing conditions report that they produced. So I will I will get that. So, I will I will get that out to you guys.
>> That's part of what this scope is is an existing conditions report. So, you know, that's something that I do think you we would and maybe there's things there are things and I I want to review this further, but there are things in here that aren't in this scope that I think would be could be valuable. So you
know um other communities um do this work um and I find it valuable in terms of their strategic planning and you know uh the other thing I u would like to say quickly about you
said the 35,000 for the codification um are we getting proposals for the codification because I'm wondering again what how much money we have left this fiscal year if should we look at a two-phase approach to the codification so that we use if we have funds for this
year and then we use the rest of the funds next year because 35 is probably not enough to do the whole thing. >> And so I get worried that we get to the end of the fiscal year and the money is going to go back to free cash next year instead of using it like we should. >> And if it would be great if we could get at least maybe a first phase done in
house with KP Law, it might be. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I know Liz. The first thing to look at is the audit that the consultant did that identified all the discrepancies and the things that need to get addressed including the fact that our farm section >> which consultant
>> um you know uh the clerk Sue Galvin would have the name of the consultant. I I would have it but I I could look it up. >> A red line. >> I have a I have a copy of the report somewhere in my look it up. Yeah, we all got it. Um, >> so this was this was when they put it on
the e-code. >> Yes. And they said, "Here are the things that you should address." >> Oh, and excellent. Okay. Thank you. >> Point by point. It was like a >> at the end of the of it. And one of them is like very simple like the farm section or farm bylaw is like out of
date with state law, right? I mean that like you got to fix stuff like that. Yeah, >> for sure. And >> and again with that, it's interesting that it's coming out of our budget when this is really um the building department. This is help for the building department. So it's really I
would this one I think we should we should see it through. But it's it's one of those things that it should be baked into the building department's budget for a year. Um not necessarily the planning board's budget. This is part of the operation.
>> Yeah. And you know all these opinions that we have on on who should do it whether it's whether you engage in another study and and or whether we continue with the study that we already had and you know and the questions on process and you know and and how did
this happen? I mean, there simply could have been a call from anybody to Meredith, the chair of the planning board, and said, "Hey, we're thinking of an economic feasibility study, and a lot of time would have been saved, a lot of energy would have been saved, and a lot
of frustration would have been eliminated." You know, but if you're a resident and you're a taxpayer and you might not be happy with how much you're paying in taxes and you hear this conversation about having an existing
study with a company that we've already, you know, engaged and we're going to abandon that and we're going to start another study with the Barrett group. She might be fine for it. But if you're a resident, aren't you saying what's wrong with the process? Why are we
walking away from MAPC if they were already engaged? It goes I'm looking at this. It goes all the way back to October of 24. You know, I think isn't that the proposal? >> I don't know how stale I don't know how stale that is, Sean. That's the only thing. >> It was in the email. Yeah. But it might
be, you know, what matters most is all these dollars we talk about, whether it's our budget or somebody else's budget, it's the taxpayers money. Those are the people that are paying for all of this. We all pay for this, too. you know that that that we can't lose
track of that. We can't lose track of it. And and I have issues with a lot of things. Like I said earlier, I'm not opposed, you know, to to exploring how we can improve any part of Milton. I want to be realistic in terms of what we are communicating to the community that
can be accomplished. What financially are we going to solve by increasing the commercial tax base? Not a lot. Not a lot. We I want to be realistic. I want to be proper in terms of process. The planning board is where that should have come. And a call should have come from a
representative of the select board or Nick to Meredith to discuss that. And and I also feel like I said earlier, engage the businesses that exist in Milton. Ask them what could be done to help you, you know, uh grow or or expand
your business. We're going to learn from that, you know, how other businesses who aren't here could come into town and might be able to succeed. But no, I'm not in favor of spending, you know, tens of thousands of dollars, you know, for information. I'm all for finishing what we started with MAPC, but I'm not in I'm
not in favor of creating another study with another group of people and spending gobs of money that people work so hard to pay the tax bills. So I I think if we're going to look at completing the study, we need to see
look at the scope and see if we want to refine refine it because it doesn't include the West Milton area. It doesn't include the pre-existing non-conforming and we might need to understand what the additional cost would be to include that. >> Uh but if you don't have this, Liz, and
and everyone else doesn't have it, I I have an electronic version of this that I can send to you. That's their proposal. I don't It's not an executed copy. I don't So, I don't have that. But, um, >> and while we do that, Cheryl, let's go back and look at the goals and objectives. >> Yeah, it's in here. Yeah.
>> Okay. But, let's make sure that the goals and objectives, you know, are still the goals and objectives that we have. >> So, assuming that the select board is actually going to go along with this right now, they're moving forward with their own plan and their own bar. Somebody asked them, hey, are you going to include the plan?
>> They're not doing procurement yet. that and they they did say that they wanted us to weigh in on the scope, but >> they wanted to weigh have us weigh in on the scope. Correct. Not about the process. >> I want to clear that up. >> Yeah, it's about the scope. >> Can't unwind what's happened with the
process right now. But I think the process moving forward should also I mean I actually I think it would be helpful maybe if uh Nick and Liz and Ben and Meredith had a call about it and um
you know discuss the this work and maybe um if you find that these proposals and the scope to be redundant Liz also you can talk about that and would it make sense
to to change course a little bit and you know >> unfortunately I I I feel like the the um environment is so fluid the past couple of years that I I I' I'd be concerned that the that the existing conditions, you know, might be sort of
stale from a year ago. >> Well, I mean, I'm I'm thinking were they were they preparing it in 2024? >> It was when were they when were they doing the work? Were they doing the work in 2024? >> They barely start. They >> didn't it go out in April, you said? >> Well, the proposal to us was
>> You know what? You know what? Maybe it's not that that is just my That's >> business districts haven't changed that much in two years here. >> It is. >> Right. It wasn't because it was sort of the end of >> sort of like market I feel like we're sort of are we talking about we talking about market forces? >> They were just doing existing conditions
at the time. Right. Right. >> So that's where she's starting. >> Yeah. What are our business districts? Where are they? >> Yeah. I I I >> Yeah, I I'll look at it. It's pro stuff gets stale really fast. So, anything that's not like, you know, anything
that's not, you know, sort of like very very specific to Milton, like sort of like data, right? >> That's what they looked at. >> Sort of like more regional data and what have you. Like I I just that would be my gut, but I could be wrong. I could be wrong. It could it could still be nice and fresh and and >> I guess until we see it, we don't know.
>> We don't know. And what I would say too is we have to we have to verify that that work is either usable or not usable. And if it's stale in a year and a half, it takes a long time to get zoning done. It took five years to get
Milton Village done. And so, you know, that I can't imagine honestly that it's stale 100%, but I I'll I'll take your caution on it. >> Existing conditions in Milton. Yes, that's what this Yeah, outside of
Milton. >> Well, my sense is that they're looking at regional. They're looking at regional things, you know, sort of like the development constraints and sort of like what's happening regionally with the labor market and the I mean, all of those things affect Milton, you know, in
terms of like what type of development is going to come here. And >> I don't think it was that high level. I think it was more of >> Okay. >> So specific, like very specific go back and reread. Yeah, let's reread it. Let's put this on the agenda for the next meeting. I think the first step is for
Liz is it Nick just to have a call and just you know give share some of the feedback frustration >> and and that we do want this is a goal I you know I I clearly set him a goal things that we've been working on and and other things that we have continue
to want to work on. So one of the interesting things in looking at >> the this barrack proposal >> I don't see in the where it says what the goals are what I see is the background and the t
the scope of services. >> Um you'd have to look at what was asked of them. >> Yeah. >> For a proposal. Somebody must have outlined something. you know, if if if it was simply an ask for give me an economic feasibility study, you know,
whatever. But I mean, typically, if you're asking for services, you need to outline your point. >> Yeah. >> And they only had um in a two um open session. >> That's it. >> Well, I don't think I mean, it would be
interesting to see again how we need to look through it a little more. They're not talking. I did see in both cases they weren't talking about individual properties. They're talking about under like a an area. So like let's just say East Milton is an area. So I don't know
if they can get as granular as our pre-existing non-conforming. But if they could at least say you should update something about this so that you don't the hands aren't of these business owners aren't so tied. That kind of feedback I think would be useful.
>> Who is that addressed to? This Nicol >> and this um was the planning department before >> because they had the grant you know funding and the grant funding it says on
this proposal >> um awarded through the Commonwealth chapter 268 an act relating to the economic growth and relief for the Commonwealth and it so it could have
been some funds coming out of co I I don't know for sure. >> Um I mean it says it says right on this first page we recommend the town establish an economic development working group to guide this project and to specifically help with defining what economic development means in Milton >> which where's this one
>> that's on that's on the first page under mobilization. >> Okay Barrett the original. So I mean that's kind I mean I mean I think I think that's why it is so broad because I think it it's intended to be to you know that this this this working group is is going to you know is going to
define those priorities. Um because a lot of this is is you know sort of very much sort of like a broad process >> and I think I think Liz too it is a broad process. I think we should get very specific. What are we hoping
for? What are we hoping for be before we get ourselves too caught up in and and and then consider is what we we're hoping for even possible >> consultant or not.
You know, I we we don't get to that level of granularity, but we probably should >> because honestly, I haven't met a consultant out there that doesn't like to sell their services, >> you know, even if you know it can't be
like highly beneficial, they're all in business to stay in business. They'd be happy to give you a point of view. I kind of look at this as kind of like if I got a somebody who said, "I want you to design a building for me." Oh, great. What do you need? I don't know. I want you to tell me. I'm like, "Okay,
well, you got to give me some parameters to know what kind of building I'm going to design." >> Oh, she got >> I face these questions, too. How much is my building going to cost? Well, how many stories is it going to be? What's the square footage? What's it going to look like? What's the exterior? So, I I I understand that and and that's again, this is the root of one of the problems
we have. We have to read it more carefully. >> I understand. But but you quickly just looking at the looking at it very quickly. I think you've you've already seen some some issues. >> Well, I would want to be very clear about um if there is something at high level,
we need to we need to identify um some specific outcomes. I think that you'd want to come out of that out of that work. Um, and I think you know what otherwise leaving it to a committee that's not yet formed it
and you don't know what the skill sets on and and background that those folks have in the topic. Um it just it they that committee may need some guidance and if that committee is getting guidance from Liz that's one thing and Avanti that's you know because
that's would be the expertise that would be able to help guide setting the scope but an undetermined skill set deciding the scope uh would concern me
>> and and Liz and Avante have limited time in in terms of the guidance I think they come to work every day to guide us and guide Nick Milano and and work collaboratively with others. But I mean, if you're if
I don't think it's our expectation of you as a town that you're going to guide the master plan committee, you know, they exist as a body to provide ideas and suggestions. >> I I meant on the scope of the the services, not on the committee. >> I thought you meant on the committee. >> The scope of the services. I think the
planning board did I think the planning department did staff that committee though. >> It did. >> Yeah. >> I think that was the that was the the the precedent. >> Yeah. I I you know, as I said earlier in the meeting, Nick has so many things that we want him to work on. It I would
have called Liz into my office and said, "Liz, here's what I want and have you responsible for getting it." Just like Tim uh was responsible previously. Tim was the one that solicited proposals from uh MAPC and and anybody else from any of
those studies. You know that that's that's your expertise. >> All right. Good. Well, that was the last item on the agenda. I think we fully discussed. >> Can I just ask you quickly? What do you what's going to be on the agenda on the
26 that you you said the public hearing on the sign bylaw? >> It's going to be the sign. Yeah. The finalization of the signed by the and obviously the public forums. >> Yeah. So, did we um Can you reach out to the um chamber and invite them to come? >> Yeah. Actually, I my I'm planning on
having a having a call or or a coffee or something with the with the um president of the chamber. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I defin I'm definitely going to do that. >> Okay. Because I'm a member. I'm not at like an active member. They meet at lunchtime and I'm working. But um so I
don't I haven't gotten any emails about like like they even know what's going on. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So >> maybe invite them to come to our >> other because the other thing that is a
real a real priority is uh the housing production plan which we've now gotten a agreement um that the funding but I think it was the contract was being finalized. So, just maybe an update on the housing production plan. You would want to get that. That's
>> um again, you've been great with the open space and recreation. Maybe we'll have an update on >> that. Um >> can we also at some point in one of the upcoming meetings ask Liz and Avanti to help us out with where we're at with our
affordable housing? >> That's what this the um housing production plan. >> Okay. Okay. So, it'll be included with >> that will we'll get a yeah an updated on on that and we can probably get that even before >> people people ask and and I don't know that I'm capable of giving anybody a
correct answer you know and I I know some of that and in are we in safe harbor? What does it take to be in safe harbor? And you know all those questions that people think about >> and you know and projects go in and out of I I can't remember the time frame right but yeah >> if you're not permitted within a certain
time frame they drop So, yeah. So, but it's easy to lose track of that because we're not, you know, we're not really on a regular basis discussing what's permitted, what's not permitted. >> Yeah, we know, but yeah, we sort of, but I think we could come up with that. >> Great.
>> Yeah, I definitely have I definitely have a um a spreadsheet that that tracks the projects, so I can just I can just make sure it's up to date and share that share that. >> Send that to us. That'd be great. Yeah. Thank you. and putting a committee. Part of what we had talked about was
>> putting a committee together for the housing production plan um as the liaison. So what if we need anything on that but I think and we'll put on this economic development we can review the scopes again you know any comments that we have and and any
further you know feedback and I'm happy to join a call and >> well I think um again there I think the selectman meet before us. >> They meet on the 24th. >> They meet on the 24th. So, um, how are
they going to get our feedback? >> You know, Nick said, "Oh, I want the input from the plan." >> It won't be ready for this. I don't think >> And again, >> it's physically impossible. >> Yeah. To fund a a non-formed committee
at this point, which we're not delaying. And I because I I did have a conversation with Liz Dylan's going >> on her, you know, appointments and she said it might take me a little while. She said, "I just want to review." She she was surprised the select board had made their appointment so quickly. She
thought it would be a little bit we would wait a little bit to see who, you know, for all the applications, you know, whoever was going to apply to come in. Um, and so she was going to let me know, you know, who she was going to. when I said we would um >> did the did somebody say how many or do
you know Liz how many um people have applied? >> I think that I can there's a folder here that Lynn has been linking me to. >> Okay. Uh,
see >> and does anybody look at them to see if they meet the skill set or the kind of expertise that was in that >> I don't think there's a screening I don't think Linda's screening I think
that would be >> okay >> that became very broad if you number almost anybody can qualify now. Seriously, you saw how broad it became. >> Seven, eight. >> I don't I don't think you could say you're not qualified to anybody that submits themselves.
>> I'm see I'm seeing about 10 different names. >> Okay. And two were appointed or three? >> I think two because because there was a member of the select board and then two. >> So that's that but of the nine, one needs to be a member. So that's three then total. Right.
>> Right. So, so of the So, I I think I see 10 different names on here. So, two of these might have already been appointed by by the select. >> 10 is more than than >> we have enough for >> because we'll have a member from here too. >> Yeah. >> Right. Because right because you need
what six >> because you have three you have three like or or actually no is the moderator the mo you've got a select board member a planning board member >> and then the rest are just appointments. >> Okay. Okay. Right. So, yep. So, you've got a couple of extra. >> Yep.
>> So, I'll So, I I had planned to have that teed up, but but I think we had a conversation about it and and it made more sense for the to to move forward at the next meeting. So, I will have that um I will have that information for you guys for the for the folks that are still, you know, available to be
appointed. Okay? And as soon as we hear from the warm committee, because I told Liz, you know, we can fill in because I think we have an understanding of what we would need to fill in um based on in your experience.
Um but Liz was going to make her appointments and then we were going to >> Okay. >> make our appointments. >> Fine. >> Okay. >> Make sure you're in Canada. >> Yeah. Okay, you can. >> All right. Well, with that, um, I think
we can have a motion to journ. >> So, moved. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I Good night. Thank you. >> The board. >> What's that? >> Oh, experience. It was warmer in here at
least.