board fiscal year 2026. At this time, I would like to now call the meeting to order and begin by introductions of the members and our staff. Um Cheryl, >> Cheryl Tagayas, secretary, >> Sean Fehee, member, >> Maggiefield, member, >> Jim Davis, member,
>> and Meredith Hall serving as chair. Um with us we have our staff Avante >> Avante director >> Liz Manning planning director. Great. Thank you and welcome to all. Um first we have our administrative items um with
two sets of meeting minutes from February 12th and 26 with Cheryl's edits. Has everybody had a chance to review those? >> All I saw was a spelling error for my name, but that's okay. I don't really I'm not worried about it.
>> All right. Can I have a motion to Sean? >> It's okay. >> Motion to approve the minutes of February 12th and 26th. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Thank you. >> Future minute dates. Um our regular
scheduled meetings um for April will be the um 9th and the 23rd. And then we will be meeting and we'll have a meeting set up the evenings just prior to uh town meeting which will be April >> May.
>> I'm sorry that's May. So that'll be our future. So we'll put those on for May um and discuss those at our next meeting but regularly for April are the 9th and the 23rd. So and um then we have a staff update.
>> All right. You want to you want to kick it off? you get the first item on the on the list. >> Yeah, happy to. Um, so eco onetop application, it is submitted. So, >> congrats. >> Hey, that was a lot of work. >> Yeah. No, it was awesome um to get that
done. Got five letters of support, one of them from the climate action plan committee actually. So I stopped by their meeting last week and so it's great to get their support also from the DPW director, from Liz, from MAPC
and yeah. Yeah. So it was great to get that in. So >> hopefully we'll hear over the summer kind of status of that application. So >> thank you for your work on that. Yeah, and that's got a really Avante did a terrific job with the um scope and and
really kind of outlining, you know, with a lot of thought and detail the tasks. So, it it if we get the funding, it should hopefully go go quickly and go well. >> That's the hope. >> Yeah. Yep. I think it's, you know, under like a FY27
cycle. So, um yeah, looking forward to that. So, crossing my fingers. So, >> good. Um, yeah. Want me to >> You can hop in. Yeah, hop in on the MVP update as well in the open space. >> Great. So, MVP 2.0, so the municipal
vulnerability preparedness grant. Um, we received that in the amount of $260,000. So, that's basically going to be a regional climate resilience, you know, planning effort. Norwood is taking the lead on this
project. Uh I attended the kickoff meeting last month with the environmental coordinator. So kind of the next steps after that. So that was kind of like a regional cool. So there's multiple projects going on. So this next kickoff meeting is going to be just with
these other towns and so we'll kind of discuss next steps. So in terms of the actual project concept that hasn't been decided yet but I think the idea behind it as in the two pager as that shares is
it's going to be kind of co-created with the community in terms of what the priorities are and then ultimately there's going to be this like seed project that is completed over like a 9-month period which will help address some of those priorities. So quick
question. Does this relate at all to the um climate action planning report because the environmental coordinator or Norwood is that who's leading it? >> Um the the environmental coordinator for Milton.
>> So that's for Milton. in terms of like the Milton side of things. Um Cassie the environmental coordinator, she's been kind of taking the lead in terms of Milton's involvement, but I've been trying to like stay tuned as well and you know,
keep um updated on on the project, but but yeah, Norwood is is taking the lead on it. So can you just help me a little bit like the vulnerability is that related to environmental impacts of climate change or is it a
different kind of vulnerability? >> I'd say it's definitely connected to climate change. So that's something that is on my radar because obviously I did submit this application for a climate action plan and then this is also going to be about like climate resilience and
priorities. So, you know, ideally I'd like to ensure that like these two plans are, you know, are coordinated, are working together so that, you know, they're not like overlapping or, you know, stepping on each other. So hopefully they can work together and a
project like this can like help with, you know, achieving some of the like goals and strategies that are in the climate action plan. >> Okay, great. So, this is a state grant as well. >> Thank you. And then yeah, I can do open space.
So open space and wreck plan uh was able to get a change order finalized. So that was signed by Horsley Whitten and the town administrator uh today. So So that's great. That establishes a clear timeline for each of the deliverables for finishing the open space and wreck
plan. I did also request um for the excuse me for the consultant to draft a update memo relating to the status of the open space and rep plan for the open space and recreation planning committee >> um just to help reestablish connection.
So >> that's great. >> Looking forward to seeing that, you know, get wrapped up. It'll be nice to have that completed. So >> that's been a lot of work. So that's great. in the wind column. Um, okay. So, shared
supporting housing office. Uh, so, uh, we met with the owner's consultant at 440 Granite as well as the, uh, chair of the, uh, affordable housing trust and the town's consultant, Asenture, to ensure that the, um, units at 440
Granite will be eligible for the SHI. So, there's some some paperwork and some effort there. Feel like I might have shared this last time, so I'll go quickly. Um, they're also working on getting the 71 through 73 foreign units onto the SHI for us as well. So, we'll
be following up on that. Um, I I quickly looked at the select boards meeting uh today to see if this um item came up on their agenda and I did not see it, the uh traffic calming master plan. So, I will circle back with um Nick Milano on
that one to see what the status is on that project. Uh housing production plan. So, we have a signed contract with Karen Sunborg. >> Great. >> Yep. So, that's great. Um and um she's looking to meet with Avante and I just
for for a quick, you know, kind of update call, you know, staff to staff. Um and then, you know, then we've got to work on the the uh I need to understand how the committee gets appointed and and composed. I still haven't quite un I
don't know that I have a definite answer to that yet. I don't know if the select board has to appoint or or if the select board has to create it. So I'm I u that's more information will come on that one but I believe there's an understanding that it will be the six members to planning to select board and
two from the housing trust. So, just for FYI, sorry. >> Um, so, you know, I've said this before, I'm not a huge fan of committees and, you know, sometimes committees can slow work down because you have to then report
back to your committees and I know how important this housing production plan is and feel like it's the fastest to end is like a straight line. Is it really necessary to have a
committee? I'm not familiar with the past housing production plan. Um, so I don't know how long it took. Um, sometimes with more committee members, it takes longer to, you know, get a quorum, work with everyone's schedules,
and if it's other member, if we're represented on it and the select board, then it adds more time, commitment, o other meetings. Yes. So, is it possible not to have a committee or or is it the
normal thing to have a committee? >> Can I um comment on what how it was done before because I did serve on the committee. >> Um, one of the well, a couple things that the committee helped with is the consultant will pull together all the demographic data. you know, the which is
really a good chunk of it, but the consultants won't be able to really identify where potential housing opportunities will be in the next five years. And we'll rely on staff and committee members to help with that. And
then also uh like a public forum because there there are strategies in there that will get assigned to planning board to select board. Um and so having you know people representative who um can know about that sort of the discussion about
those strategies what's already been in the works what's in the works through zoning is is just helpful to the consultant. So, I I do think uh it was helpful to her and you certainly could ask her I mean um about that from the
past, but I I know that Melinda Collins when she was a select board member, she chaired that committee >> and it had a sunset period, you know, um and I don't remember how often it met honestly. Um, but I I do think um it was
helpful for the consultant to have input from folks who are more knowledgeable about Milton. >> And they can um I'm not suggesting that um the consultant shouldn't report to the like a select board meeting or a planning board meeting or affordable housing trust meeting that they can go
to the regularly scheduled meetings, take input from that board and then the consultant can go and do whatever they want. It's just my understanding is that we're at risk because our housing production plan has expired. So I
thought it was a sense of urgency to get it completed and you know sometimes committees can be um a hurdle and I just thought maybe you could just move along faster and if it's if it's if it's has
already been done and it's sort of just a check the box type thing >> you're going to have to update those things that I just mentioned. If you look at the prior one, you'll see there's a bunch of strategies that are assigned and parcels that are assigned >> and that needs to be updated and that
consultant will need guidance. >> Um, and so I um you know I guess I guess my question too is like you know you know open meeting open meeting law and you know taking minutes and you know is this a working group? Is it ad hoc? Is
it something that has to be officially created? I I just don't know. I don't know the answer to to to those things yet. Um and so maybe I I like your suggestion of of um you know have a chat with the consultant and see you know it
could be that it could be that a working group is is sufficient you know and maybe it's not as it doesn't have to be as as formal. I I I honestly don't know. One thing I would say is like anytime there's a recommendation for zoning change or for parcels to be looked at,
not having a public meeting about that in discussion, I think would would raise some um eyebrows. So it that's why I do think it should be public process and if no elected board members are part of that process along the way, then people are going to say, well, it was just a
consultant who did it. I just think it's going to happen if it's a public >> even suggesting that I I still believe in a public process. I'm just thinking we don't need to have another committee comprised of multiple of us and multiple
of other >> the whole the process would be the same. We'd have a public forum um we would take input from the residents. we would take input from any other um committee.
Um but I'm just trying to you know move it down down the field in a as quick and most efficient way possible because I don't um want to
um you know put us at risk for another 40b just because we're we don't have this plan in place. So, I'm not trying to shortcut the process. Um, it's just trying to make it a little bit more efficient. >> And I would have a question on how
frequently it has to be updated. Do you do you recall >> five years? >> Every five years >> because it expired under, you know, and we weren't aware until it had already expired because it would have been nice to actually start working on this in
advance. And it was such a robust plan the last time. It was very impressive the housing production plan that it would be nice to maybe get a sense from Karen on what what her needs were, you know, would be um and how how we could
best be most efficient in in getting this done with the input of the of all three boards um and um in a in public >> okay >> public forum. Yeah. And I would definitely be be advising her. I I asked
her if she was still had the same, you know, kind of availability and time frame as when we first talked back in December and she said yes. So my my I will be saying to her anything you could do >> prior to the committee >> and maybe her timeline of you know what
what yeah just get some of that stuff going as fast as possible, you know, because I get it. I get that there's a there's a sense of a sense of urgency >> if we're exposed. Yeah. Okay. Um, quickly on the MBTA
communities data, we were able to get the um those data layers onto the main GIS landing page. Great. >> So, that's great. That's some some progress there. >> Test drove that. That works well. >> Oh, good. Good. Awesome. Yeah. I mean, that was really that was really the main thing was just to kind of have it be,
you know, this is the last this is the last data. It's it's the approved data. It's it's there. It's on the main page. So, I'd like to do more, but we'll we'll get there. Um there's a um there's a legislative breakfast at the state house
on April 9th from 10:00 to 11:30. That link in the staff report will get you right to the signup page if anyone's interested. It's going to be in Boston or anywhere nearby that day. Um we're going to have the library parking and the Milton fire station RFP later on the
agenda. Uh and Cheryl had asked at the last meeting what our remaining budget was for planning studies. I believe I hope I got that right. And as of um today, we've got 27,272. I've asked KP Law to give us a scope of
services for recodification. They're hoping to have it available at our for our second meeting in April. So, if the board is, you know, comfortable with with moving forward with them, then that would be my recommendation would be to encumber those funds for that purpose
so we don't lose them. So you said that I'm sorry that what they would have by the second meeting of April would be the proposal >> scope. Yeah. Scope. Yeah. A scope for for reotification. And I thank you. I shared that um that redline document with with Carolyn. Um Cheryl was able I
don't know who I think I don't think I shared it any further. Did I? I'm not sure copy my as I had provided me with it because I wanted to sort of start going through and seeing how significant the changes were and it was just taking
out word you know a little how extensive the changes were. Right. So, so Caroline essentially, you know, kind of outlined their typical process for a project like this. Um, and so she she needed to understand what had already been what
had already been um analyzed and it could line up very well with what they do and it will it will knock a whole segment of this thing right out of the budget which would be fabulous. I don't know that for sure yet. Um, but it will it it will kind of get us get us off to
a faster start hopefully. >> So that's good. >> Um, so this 27,000 is what is in our budget now and the proposal is for ref codification. I thought I heard though that $35,000 is
going to be allocated to the recotification out of the free cash. So is it 27 plus 35? >> Yeah, that would be that. That would be that would be my recommendation because it is going to be a 60,000 >> it's gonna be that much okay
>> effort I would think. >> Yeah. >> And she also talked about sort of chunking it into three town meetings and had some different ideas some kind of early early sort of spitfall ideas. So, um, yeah, that's fantastic
to have KP Law on board to be able to help us because that was part of our questioning like who do we hire to even get us to that next step and if KP Law can do the majority of it in house, I think that's >> so I I I know I um carpooled with the
chair of the ZBA, Kathleen O'Donnell, last weekend to the Citizen Planer Training Collaborative in Worcester and I told her about the codification And so I copied her as well. And I would just request that >> you keep her in the loop as well on this
because obviously so many things come to them. >> Totally. >> And then obviously our building commissioner too >> because you know the ones who work with the code are the ones who see challenges with the code and so if there's things that weren't even in the audit that they
have come across I think would be beneficial um to have their input early rather than later. I totally agree. >> And are you um anticipating any other funds that we would be needed? Um
because if we spend all the 27,000 then our budget would be zero for the rest of the year. >> Um should we money in >> Well, I honestly the the the the effort it takes to get the money under contract
>> is we're you know we're already we're already almost in April. >> Yeah. in June. June. >> So, I think I I just this to me is the is just the quickest line between A and B. >> So, do you need a motion? >> Uh, I was going to bring it back to you
guys like with the scope in April. Do you or do or do you or do you just want me to kind of move faster? >> I mean, I'm fine committing the funds to it and reviewing the final scope. You know, I I think the scope is
after she reviews it. It's pretty straightforward. So, I mean, >> Meredith, if you if you would take the motion, I'll make a motion. >> I would be comfortable with that given that subject to approval of the scope. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I'll make a motion to allocate
the remaining planning board funds of 27 for this fiscal year of 27,272 to the recodification um and with the intent of final scope from KP Law to be reviewed at a meeting in April, a meeting of this board in
April. >> All in favor? I >> I that's it. That's it. Okay, great. Um so at this time um if there is anyone who would like to speak um public comment um we can hold it at this time. If there's
something that is on the um that is on the agenda um we'll have time to speak on that as well including the public hearing. Um so if there is anybody online do have I do have Christine Hod
Hodlin has raised their hand. >> Okay. >> Good evening. Can you all hear me? >> Yes. Good evening. Welcome. >> Yep. Great. Thank you. Um I just wanted to make a couple comments. I appreciate that you um I guess spoke briefly about
um the library parking at your last meeting and I see that you have it on the agenda. Um, and I just wanted to um say, you know, thank first of all, thanks for the couple of planning board members who attended the forum. Um, I didn't hear any specific input to you,
but um all of our information that was um you know available is on our website for anyone to go to. The recording of the session is available. Um, we've received lots of comments from um, citizens.
Those are also available for you to review. Um, we're planning another public forum um, to go through the RFP um, again and get more input. And if you would like to join, you're of course welcome like anybody else's. Um, and you
can always um submit your um questions or any comments that you might have to either Will or I directly um which I think he stated at the um at the forum that we had. So um we you know we're following our direction from the um the
select board. We received um a consensus from them to form this task force and the library trustees actually paid for the consultant who's working with us on the RFP um and we're looking to provide that RFP
to the select board um in the near future. So um like I said, welcome to any input you might like to have. um you know, please contact us, either of us, to um to schedule that or to you know,
submit it directly if you'd like. >> Thank you. >> Yep. Any other hands up? That is the only hand. Okay, great. Um so with that, we can now move to our public hearing. Um
it is 7:05. I'll call the public hearing um order uh the public hearing for the Springtown meeting warrant uh to see if the town will vote to amend chapter 275 of the general bylaws known as the zoning bylaws by amending article one definitions and striking section
275-3.2C 2C signs and billboards and section 275-3.3D signs permitted in the business district and adding new section 275-3.25 signs to regulate signs.
Um so with that um we did just to um let people know we um Liz accompanied myself at at the warrant committee last Monday and they voted to support the sign signed bylaw. Um there were no further
there were a couple of little questions but there were no changes made. Um, we had at our last meeting had addressed the the questions that they had and Liz did a great job of sort of going back and forth making sure they had complete information. We, you know, we were
responsive and Carolyn Murray from KP Law was really quick to get back with with answers that we could, you know, move this along. So um in that process what was really helpful is um Larry Johnson who sits on the sign review
committee who it was great because >> he is um >> Larry's a member of the sign >> committee to mute yourself here muted. >> Oh no she's she's okay. Um, yes. So,
Larry was really great in sort of going back and he actually began sort of having a a a presentation of a flowchart which explained the process for sign review. And Liz was able to pick up because interestingly, it wasn't the permanent signs that they had the
most questions on. It was the temporary signs that you see especially this time of year whether it's garden club events, boy scouts, you know, different things that start um popping up, you know, foundation for education banners, all the different items, how that process
goes through, what that process is in a flowchart because a lot of it would not fall under this bylaw and there's a lot of exemptions and the select board actually has their own process, but Liz was able to put a flowchart to make it simpler for for the warrant committee to
understand and I think it would be helpful at town meeting as well and I don't know does do you would you want to just walk through that flowchart um >> sure >> and then I'll share my I'll share my screen I'll just kind of very very
quickly go through um the present the the a ver a version of the presentation um okay everybody that was in our So let's see. Yeah. So essentially um
you know for members of the public that are here and for others that might be listening in um the plane board met in session multiple meetings since December 2025 consulted extensively with the sign review committee town council of KP Law the building commissioner the town administrator and the department of
public works. The Milton Chamber of Commerce has been provided the bylaw language as well and I will be making a presentation to them. um next week at their at their monthly meeting. Um the new bylaw attempts to codify the sign review and approve pro process in a
clear and concise way. It allows more flexibility to the sign review committee to recommend changes styles and technology and taste change over time. It prescribes a clear approval and appeal process and it attempts to balance the needs for business to inform customers of their services while
protecting the overall character of the town. Um, and then I just want to make the point as well that once the bylaw has been approved at town meeting, then planning staff will work to update the sign and facade design handbook, um, the process for that is in consultation with
the planning board. Wrong way. Right. So, so this is essentially the flowchart that that that Larry Johnson had created uh to help walk the walk the war committee through the process. um you know just sort of lays out the
building commissioner's role, the sign sign review committee's role, where the ZBA might come into the process if if necessary if there's you know there's a denial or there's some you know some an appeal or what have you um or the special permits that are laid out in the
new bylaw as well. Just sort of walks you through how that works and you know the changes that might need to be made. It comes back to the sign review again and then you sort of make your way to an approval. Um hopefully that's a pretty straightforward um you know uh depiction
of of the of the steps and I'm hopeful that it will make it easier for the for uh businesses and and other folks that want to come come in and get one of these um sign sign permits. So there was some lot of talk about the temporary sidewalk signs. So we you know I went
ahead and just kind of you know created a a a um a flowchart for that as well. The main difference here is that these do not go to the sign review committee. So the so the process is completely with the with the building commissioner. Um and then the thing that was added which
was at the recommendation of the planning board was to have the DPW do a um a signoff when when the uh sandwich board signs are in the public rightway. So I had a conversation with the town engineer today and he was comfortable with that. um that was something that
the warrant committee had wanted us to circle back on. He was comfortable with that. I I told him that what we'll do is we'll make sure that there's really clear directions in the guidelines. Um so this these two tables are are really just sort of, you know, comparing
the prior the prior to the the current bylaw to what's being proposed. Um, nothing really new here that that we haven't been over sort of, you know, I feel like we've been over this this a lot. Um, I don't know if there's
anything on here that people want to um talk about or if you're comfortable and and we can just kind of move on to the to the um items that were Sorry. I I think we're all comfortable, but because this is the public hearing, I think it would be beneficial just to
give an overview. >> Sure. Sure. Absolutely. Um, so, so one of the one of the issues with the existing bylaw is that there was always some sort of question. It was questionable whether or not these these uh sign regulations apply outside of the
business districts. So the new bylaw is very is very clear that there's you know certain rules in residential districts and there's certain rules in business districts and lots of you know language around um you know pre-existing businesses that might already exist in
the residential districts. So it hopefully really clarifies that um that language that was that was confusing and andor didn't didn't really answer the question. Um so there's uh an effort to modernize and clarify definitions
specifically for things like billboards and things with um some of the questions around the neon and LED signs. Also more clarity about temporary signs and the and the processes that you need to follow there. Um let's see design
elements. So the design elements typically have been contained within the gu the the the guidelines. So, so the um the effort here will be to to to update th those guidelines and to and to ensure that they're that they're um clear and
you know um useful for the for the folks that are that are that are using them, the signed the business owners and the signed companies and what have you. Um so the permit process the current permit process uh included you know could would
potentially um land at the select board. So, you know, we had a lot of conversations about um you know, the building commissioner, the sign review committee would tip the permit gets gets gets um submitted to the building commissioner. The building commissioner
um forwards it to the sign review committee and is and if everyone's in agreement that it meets all the requirements and etc., then the sign review committee gives a a a favorable favorable recommendation and the building commissioner issues the permit. If the sign review committee has
questions or concerns, there could be a process back and forth where things get amended and what have you. Um, but if there's a if there if the sign review committee is not in agreement, then in the past it would it would it would go be appealed to the select board. So, that was one of the things that we worked really hard to do was to was to
eliminate that role for the select board. It didn't make a whole lot of sense um to have them sort of, you know, kind of come in at the end like that. So this new process brings those appeals to the zoning board of appeals. Very clear process, very clear standards. Um so
that's the that's the probably the biggest difference there. The same the same process from the building commissioner to the sign review committee for for most applications. Uh there were no special provisions before. This new proposed language adds rules for restaurants, fuel stations,
air bed and breakfasts direct and directional signs. I think those were the those were the categories there. Hopefully I didn't miss any. Um non-conforming signs um very vague existing sort of standard of good cause. So non-conforming signs may be altered
under this proposed language only with special with a special permit and in much in a very clear process. Um waiverss same thing. the the sign review committee ha had the ability to allow additional area for good cause very
broad somewhat vague so now we've got um clear percentages for waiverss 25% for dimensions 25% for area 50% for setback uh and there's and there's and there's clear criteria that they need to meet to
get those waivers so sign area um so this changes the allowed sign area. The sign area currently is two square feet per linear foot of the facade. So that translates into if you've got a 20 foot you've got
a 20 foot wide um you know storefront then you're allowed up to 40 square feet for for for for your sign area. So this is reducing that to one square foot. Um there was a lot of consultation again with the uh sign review committee and
the chair of the sign review committee about this. There was study of existing uh storefronts and and it was it it it felt that this was a um a reasonable change to that to that um area that
total sign area. Um let's see. So this is more permissive for awnings. The current language does not allow awnings to have lettering, but this new this new uh proposal will allow lettering on awnings so that they can double as
signage. The window signs have been reduced uh from 20% of the area it currently is allowed and this this proposes 10% of the area.
The sidewalk and A-frame signs, we already talked about that. The DPW is now involved. There's, you know, specific dimensional requirements and what have you that need to be met in order to have that um have that approved. It's an annual approval. So, a business would have to come back annually to re-up their ability to put
out a to put out a a sandwich board sign. So, with the illumination, illuminated signs in the current bylaw, illuminated signs are allowed if it's a steady, non- flashing, non-glare lighting. Uh this
one, this new proposed language uh anticipate is is proposed to prohibit LED, neon or exposed or exposed light sources and that reverse lit and internal illumination require special permit. And
then limits on timing for when the light those illuminated signs can be on. Projecting signs, there are some changes in the dimensions there. Uh some some minor tweaks there. Freestanding signs. There had never
there was not an explicit height limit. There's now an 8 foot height limit in the business districts. Directional signs. Uh I think there is additional square footage. There's additional square footage per tenant in the proposed language. So that hopefully
broadens it a little bit for folks. Temporary signs. So it the temporary signs have always been a 45day uh limit, but the bylaw gives an exhaustive list of exempted signs. So hopefully we've covered every every everybody who's out
there that wants to do something that's a nonprofit or a community group or or a political uh you know organization or some something of that nature. So temporary sale signs. So currently the 60 days currently temporary sale signs
are allowed for 60 days and you can you can cover up to 20% of the window area and it's included in your total sign area. This new language allows temporary sale signs to be um displayed for 180 days. So that's more permissive 90 days
for exterior temporary signs and it does not count towards the total sign area. So that that gives a little a little little bit more flexibility for folks on on that one. Uh and then I just went ahead and just kind of put together a little couple of slides for the mostly
for the public. I know some of us were asking about the point of purchase display, so I thought that one was kind of cute. Um so there's a there's an awning with some with some lettering, a blade or projecting sign, LED neon. That would be an example of LED neon
which is prohibited in this in this bylaw. Reverse lit channel a direct typical directory sign. Sometimes these will be on a wall or they could be freestanding. Uh indirect lit which is the you know
the the goose the gooseeneck lights that's down in um Milton Village. And then a freestanding sign Winter Valley. So, I think the last piece of this was um just a really quick run through
because the last the the the the language that I just wanted to make sure I was clear about the about the language that was um that was advertised and then the changes that have been made since the board last the board last met. So, we've already kind of talked about most
of it. Um se temp sign temporary is a definition. the language for uh that referred to business use for temporary signs was moved very very clearly into section 12 which is deals just with businesses. So it just sort of takes any
question about what that what that definition is trying to address away because there's no language in there anymore that deals with business with businesses. So, um, again, to clarify the community group sandwich board
signs, we there was a there was a, um, language added to one of the exemptions to very expressly exempt nonprofit community group A-frame signs and lawn signs. Uh, temporary sale, we already talked about that. uh the more generous
time periods and the um and the fact that the that language that had been in the temporary sign definition was moved to this. It wasn't changed. It was just moved to this section 12G sidewalk signs. Um we included the
liability insurance paragraph back which was the recommendation of the planning board. the um this section on page 14 in the in the um bylaw that you folks have that was in your in your packet for the meeting which is dated which is dated
March 19th um on page 14 um you'll see where that language where that language is um and it has that reference to the DPW now needing to do that additional approval in the public right of way and enforcement so And one of the things we
talked about as well was the fines at our last meeting. So the way this has changed is the there's it's been simplified to just point back to the existing enforcement language that's already in the bylaw with the intention
that um when we start to move through recottification, we will address fines comprehensively throughout the bylaw. it did not make a ton of sense to try to really get into the nitty-gritty with with um trying to
figure out the right numbers for this just this one use especially with that process coming. Um and I did circle back on having it in the guidelines and town council's recommendation was that fines are clearly clearly should stay in the
bylaw. So those are the changes. >> Great. >> Okay. Anything um else we can we can say I Liz, thank you very much. I think that was great. She did Liz did a
wonderful job in presenting to the warrant committee and just simplified everything as as best it can be. Um so is that going to be the type of presentation for town meeting? I was going to ask the board. I think it would
be great. Um I think keeping it all simple. Um I don't know. Um we do need to put because the question Caroline had originally said you don't need to put the full text of the of the
zoning um bylaw in the warrant, but I think Nick felt that it should go in. So they will have had the full text. So I think that um I think that would be really helpful to have that presentation. >> I I think the comparison was changed and
the process chart uh diagrams are helpful. >> It will be very helpful to town meeting. >> And can we send um the send it out prior to town meeting to town meeting um members? I know um town park probably
doesn't have all town meeting members emails but she I sometimes receive you know emails from her. >> Can can she put it out in advance so people can become a little bit more familiar >> because the chart will be in your
presentation but not actually in the warrant. >> Right. Right. Right. Right. >> The moderator also puts presentations on um town meeting website. That's good. >> So, sooner. Yeah. I don't know when that goes up, but >> Okay.
>> But the clerk has definitely sent out emails as well. >> Okay. >> Even if it's just to alert people to go to that >> that section to look at it. >> Okay. Good. All right. All right. Um so we can open
it up to anyone um on the public on Zoom if there are anyone who would like to ask any questions or speak. Um currently the public hearing don't see any hands raised.
All right. Any further discussion or we can go ahead and close the public hearing. I make a motion to close the public hearing for the proposed sign bylaw. Is there a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Thank you.
>> Great. >> Do we need to make a motion to submit? >> That's what I think. I just I think we should just make a formal motion to submit this. Um >> Okay. So, I'll make a motion to submit the March 19th, 2026 draft of the
proposed sign bylaw to the select board. >> I'll second that also. >> And the warrant committee. We've already sent it to the warrant committee. selecting more committee for a final version. >> Right. Okay. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I
>> thank you all and thank you Liz for facilitating between Carol and and our board to try to get this cleaned up >> and the sign review um board >> and the sign review committee who was very helpful. Larry and John Ziggowitz were great. >> Zoning is a lot.
>> And Larry will be there also to sort of walk through this as well, you know, and answer field questions. Um, >> are you a town meeting member? >> He is a town meeting member and on the work committee. >> Great. >> You're an IT guy. An
>> IT guy. So, >> he's he's fantastic. Um, good. All right. Um, so the next item on our agenda is the library parking uh development of the RFP. And what I
thought would be Cheryl since you were the most involved, Liz was sort of reaching out to um Will Adams and he said, you know, probably Cheryl would know more about it than anybody. So could maybe just walk through how we got
from where we where we were to where we are now and just a status update for >> the um Sure. Happy to >> you. You want me to share the slides? Um, >> I'm not going to run through the slides, I don't think, because that was the
>> Well, the consultant went through, but if you if you >> have questions since they've been in the folder, >> um, you'll recall that the master plan implementation committee was working with the library trustees to um, help solve for their
parking challenges, which date back to even when the master plan was done, you know, 2014. 14 and they had begun that process with um predecessors to Liz and also with the DPW looking for any place
uh on their property that they could do it and then at town hall etc. So the master plan implementation committee expanded upon um those options and looked at I think six or eight different
options for them. And the only they developed a um a set of criteria for what would meet their needs and the one that they identified to meet their needs is on Canton Avenue next to the yellow house. And so um since that land is
owned by the select board, there had been outreach to the select board a couple of times or at least two or three times over the course of the emp study. >> We mean owned by the town of Milton. >> Did I say that? >> Select board. >> You said the select care of the select board. >> Yeah. Owned by the town of Milton and
the care of the select board. Um >> town meetings. >> Well, sorry. >> Disposal would have been town meeting. Yeah. Yes, ultimately. Yeah. But the the first stop I guess is just so the um
so the the next step with that um was to look at there was a couple of questions that at the select board about how this would get paid for. if it's just a parking structure or if it's a parking structure combined with some other use,
it might open up avenues for ways to have it be paid for through a public private partnership. So, the select board was interested in continuing to explore um that potential because of competing demands for taxpayer dollars
otherwise. So they um the library trustees, you know, the EMPIC sunseted as we all know and library trustees uh took up the next steps uh and formed an ad hoc committee and asked me to be on that for continuity from work that had
been done previously as well as um they asked Megan Hagerty as a to be on that and Chris Holland as a trustee representing the trustees and then Will Adams the library director and engaged with a consultant um Ryan LLC to help
advance it. Now that Ry uh Ken and Ryan had suggested the best way to determine whether there's really any opportunity for feasibility for a public private partnership was to kind of take it out to the public in an RFP process. And so
the um the idea was to get as much community feedback about what people would find um what did they thought that was a good idea, what if they did, what other uses might they find um desirable in that
location. So that's the public hearing kind of laid that out and >> there have actually been two public hearings, >> but there was one in >> there was a first one in June was very different than the second. Is that recorded? Is that available? >> Yes, it's they have that recorded. Okay. Yeah. And um
>> so they're collecting, as Chris said, collecting feedback and we'll incorporate uh that feedback into um and take it back out to for another public forum. um they've been in touch with DCR Forester
who's uh preparing a report and also VHB who's a traffic consultant who's prepared a memo. So they'll share those results as they get those. Um, so that's that's where it is and as Chris
said, you know, can reach out to as in the presentation, their emails were in it. And I think if you want to share that um slide, Liz, that has their email addresses and or or even um there's a QR code if you want to share that. That's
where people can take a survey. So they have a survey for collecting information and then email. So the slide that says provide your input and has has um um will >> it? >> Yeah. So it's the the wrapup slide. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> The second to last one. >> Okay. Let's see. >> And then right before that is the is the QR code. So if you if you uh 26 has slide 26 has the email addresses and slide 25 has the QR code. >> Okay.
So there's the emails. So, just to be clear, it's not clear that there will be an opportunity to do anything with the parking. If that's the case, then there'll still have to be a a process to seek public
funding, you know, to to build parking if there's support for that. Um but and all the the history of why they need that parking um is in that in those two public forums and probably best found or
learned by watching those and reading through the presentations because that's not really my expertise in terms of the library >> because every time I drive by there's always parking. >> It depends. Yeah, it depends on the time of day and the kind of program, you
know, the programming. like um I live you know just down the street and I I drive by uh oftentimes at the times at which they say are their their most challenging times which is late morning. So when they have they can't book
programs back to back because there's not enough time for the parking lot to shift. So they it limits how many uh programs that they can run in the morning which are their most popular programs for young families. >> Yeah. I was going to say that when I the one time that I went in the parking lot was actually full. I just parked on
Canton Avenue and it was no problem. >> Yeah, it's again >> I have a hard time seeing 50 to 60 more spaces. >> Well, again, I'm not here to talk about what the library has identified as their need. So, if you want to send th those questions to Chris as she suggested u
I'm sure that they can get back to you with how they've determined that that's what their need is. >> Okay. So the public the first public forum that I attended it was a lot of the sustainable Milton and the Sha tree
committee. You were there this same the first forum and um Chris was the moderator and almost unanimously the entire room spoke out in opposition to clear cutting the wood lot and putting a parking garage there. It just for for
the most part I I think there was one person who spoke in favor of it understanding not that no that people don't want to support the library but to put a parking garage was against all sustainability and for a historic um
scenic road was not the the the view that you want to see driving down Cannav as a parking garage. So then the next forum it became well and it was going to be an incredible I think what was the there was a number >> so so don't forget it's a parking lot it's not a garage so
>> it was a two-story level >> only twotory if there's another if there's a building on top of it so it's a building at that point or it's a parking lot so it's never just a parking structure that's called a garage so let's just be clear about that it was a >> do you have to clearcut the parking lot
to make a parking lot whether it's a garage or a parking lot you don't have to clearcut either. There's um you know an evaluation of the trees is ongoing but as far as that June forum people it's recorded the library has the results and they're having they're
having multiple forums so that all as many people as possible can provide their input. So they they have that input from that June 24. They have the input from the one they just recently had. They're collecting survey information and emails and they'll have another forum
>> and I think that's great but I'm just I'm just trying to for the public's sake. So the next forum that I attended to a lot of the shade tree committee sustainable Milton people I think they didn't attend because they thought this is really not a realistic project. So the next concept that I that I viewed
which is a 28 units, it was a discussion of 28 units plus a cap plus a possible cafe which would then equal the necessity for about 70 parking spaces because this if the library wants 40, you have 28 units
or 24 units, how many? I think it was 28. You will have you will need in a cafe you will need 70 parking spaces. So what I want people to visualize before because this is library money trustees money is what people need to because
there are wetlands back behind that you are limited. You have to have a setback from your the wetlands protection under the wetlands. You have to have it set back closer to the road, which would mean having something that would look
like 36 central, which is four stories. 36 central only has 18 units. So, if you can imagine 28 units to justify the parking for 70 first floor cafe is very similar to 36 central. You have a four-story building sitting on a
two-story parking garage. And I just can't imagine that we would want that to do that to sort of our historic National Register location, clear cutting the trees and putting an apartment building with a cafe which is very suitable on
Central Avenue, but to do that in an area in a location that we are expanding the hospital. We're about to we're going to have a memory care. We will have a 40B of some size and then potentially a new school. That is probably the worst
intersection to add more development, more cars and and that is what you will be seeing. The the impacts would be just detrimental to the town and aesthetically it would be to me it would
be as bad if not worse than than tearing down town hall and putting up what we have. I mean it is that is putting in an apartment building in your town center. Chris suggested that you submit your comments to the library trustees and those are your comments and they will
take those into consideration. >> But I think people don't know they're like, "Oh, we could do some housing." You know what we were shown at that forum? We were shown Islington, this really charming what it used to be a church with no parking underneath. It was just a cute little
retail area with some housing, very small, maybe one and a half to two stories. That is not what we would be talking about here. And I just want to be fair and to be you're an architect. Design a cafe, 70 spaces and 28 units.
It is that will be just >> so >> altering altering the character of our town beyond what we're seeing at 440. >> So you you realize that they said at the forum and you were at the forum so you know that there is no project being
proposed. it is being an RFP to see what ideas there are to see if a public private partnership would work there and what was tested out was what might the site be able to accommodate at the most and that was put forward as a
possibility. So there is no project for anybody to be opposed to. What people can respond to is whether they think it's worth exploring a public private partnership to help pay for public infrastructure at a time when we have
very uh difficult budget challenges. So I think that's the thing for people to consider and if a scale of a building is something that is of the highest concern then then send that comment to the library trustees and they will consider that and what they put together
>> and I would like to so there's is so that's example of something that's charming that's two two and a half stories that's not New England style that is not what we would be talking about here and the other piece is the time we would have to reszone zone that
that it is not zoned for mixed use right now. So that would have to go through a whole zoning process, whole town meeting. I would like to be actively I would like to help the library get parking sooner than later. The the time frame of what this you would be talking
about to try to accomplish something. >> In any case, to do the parking you're talking about at this location will involve some trees. So there's no parking. And if you went to the first forum, you saw all of the locations that were studied and why they didn't meet
the criteria. They're far away and don't meet the criteria for having the population that is most um in need of spaces, which is young families and older residents who are the
largest users of the library and they need to have it be convenient and safe. And I want to share your comments and I think all the public that's watching share >> the town educate yourself on what that's been done and then share your comments.
>> I just want to finish and I'll let because I want everyone else to speak. I I want to be realistic about what we're talking about here. And what we're talking about is to to create something that is going to
create more of a hardship with with the traffic which everyone complains about. We're bringing more traffic in. This is going to take longer. I would like to work with the library and having have our planning board help to do a sitewalk and actually walk that site. There are
things that we can talk about. I think a road diet on Reedsdale that's going to be part of our traffic master plan. reduce it back that that it's a speed, it's a highway. Slow that traffic down and let's give 28 spots along Reedsdale,
which used to be there before the renovation. That's where the parking was for the town was. >> You remembered from that June 24 forum that the DPW director was contacted about Reedsdale and he explicitly at the
time, Chase Berkeley said that that wouldn't be acceptable. That's a state roadway. They have other plans for that and parking will not go back onto Reedsdale. >> Well, we we can have that conversation with DOT. I don't know if they understand the concerns. Maybe that was Chase's opinion. I don't know. Look at
the road diet that now is on Randolph Avenue, which has been very successful. But I think there are some alternatives that >> the road diet there would be including the same as Randolph A which is to make they didn't add parking to Randolph A. They made bike lanes and safer pedestrian. That's the plan for Reedale
as well. Well, I know I've spoken personally to the minister who's across the street who has a very large parking lot who said they welcome programming, you know, to come in 6:30, 7:00, that parking lot is completely empty. Only twice in two years when I've attend and
I've attend a lot of events there have I had to cross the street and there it's very rare and I've usually arrived you know after a meeting has begun and I have happily just walked across the street and parked and there there's even daytime programming um people park
across the street for garden club forums different events that I've that I've been to and there's there is a significant amount of parking um in that area while you're looking at me and I'll to the library trustees. >> And I will say when I hear about things
like kindergarten through 8th grade sports signups at the library, why would they be having all of those signups when they have a high school with huge parking areas bringing sports signups, kindergarten through 8th grade, all all
grades, you know, all classes come and sign up at the library. That's going to create havoc. I and I think they're so the library is incredibly generous with what they offer, but that does not make sense. Private school buses are dropping
off at the time when middle schoolers who have walked are being picked up by the parents and there are shuttles, private school shuttles coming in and picking up and parents sitting in the parking lot with their cars idling. That is taking up the parking at a critical hour. I think there needs to be better
communication between who is using that. It is again I think the library is incredible incredibly hospitable but there are other areas Cunningham Hall can be used to >> Will or to Chris. >> Yeah, I've spoken to at length so and
and to other people who are in in this um >> because you you sound like you you know a lot about how the library uses its facility. I think that >> that the trustees and the director are the experts on the use of the library. So share your observations with them and
then if you have questions about how they're using their facilities, ask them. >> There's still the library is something I have I'm not an expert on. >> No, this is no but if you go to the first slide that identifies the committee
>> planning team, >> you you are on the committee. I am on the committee as an advisory member. Yes, that doesn't >> look like a full member to me. Let's go back to who the members are. I I want to I want to look at this for a moment and and I have so look at the task force,
right? We have the library director. We have the chair of the trustees buildings and grounds committees. We have a representative from the select board. and we have a representative from the master plan implementation committee.
Now, if you're a resident in the town of Milton and you're looking at that task force and we're talking about our town library in our town parking lot,
does anybody recognize an entity that's not included on that task force? Milton's planning board Milton's planning board is not part of that task force.
Our purpose is land use. We have an obligation to serve to support all of the services that are the town of Milton services. But yet
through this whole process there was no direction either from the library directly to the planning board or from the select board to engage the planning board to be a member of the task force or for the task force to come
before the planning board and petition for some help to solve a problem that they have. Regardless of the position that Meredith is talking about and and all of the related issues or your suggestion that Meridith should
just send an email to uh Christine Hodlin, we have a problem as a town with process. You know, I've said in other meetings, recognizing your charge and your
responsibility is so important to successful governance. It would be our charge and responsibility to provide help and support to the library to solve a problem that the library has, especially since it's our
land. It's the town's land. It's not owned by the select board. It's not owned by the planning board. It's not owned by the library. It's owned by the residents of the town. And it's our responsibility to help town services solve their problems. I'm not talking
about necessarily program inside the library. I'm talking about physical space outside of the library that they say isn't adequate to serve their needs. Well, why isn't the planning board formally?
So, Sh No, I'm not done yet. when I'm done, I'll I'll I'll I'll stop. But why isn't the planning board formally, you know, brought into the process and the conversation between the select board and the board of trust the board of trustees for the library? If I were the
select board, I wouldn't want to take the responsibility that they're taking. I would want the planning board to be involved so I could feel comfortable as a select board member that I've engaged the board in town that I could rely upon for this type of an issue. Our problem
is process and there's so much there's so much involved in this beyond just process. We're delaying solving a problem. The feasibility of creating 60 parking
spaces on that piece of land. The cost to do that is prohibitive. And it's so prohibitive, we create this idea that well, let's create development that can absorb the cost so that we can
make it feasible. And the idea becomes fantasylike. It just grows and grows and grows. I know what it costs to create parking.
It's incredibly expensive to create small parking. I can't see any way that that parking could be created on that piece of land without substantial site work and some form of structured parking, some form of concrete structure
to create 60 spaces. A parking space requires 325 ft. If you need 60 parking spaces, you do the simple math. You multiply 60 * 325 19,500. So you need a 20,000 square ft
platform to have 60 parking spaces. That allows for drive aisles and circulation, right? So why 325? Because it's not just the space for the car, it's the space for the drive aisles that you need. the type of parking that's referred to
as structured parking. And and structured parking describes parking that is not only a concrete structure. It could be a steel structure. It could be what's called hybrid, which is a combination of steel and concrete. Small garages don't get built. And they
don't get built because they're cost prohibitive. You have no economy of scale with a small garage. If you tried to build 60c car garage, you're probably going to spend somewhere in the order of magnitude of 50 to
$60,000 per parking space. That's not even including your site work. So if you take a 50 car garage or a 60c car garage, we're saying 60 times $50,000 per space, you have $3 million to create that structure, that combination of
concrete and steel that gives you a 20,000 foot deck to park cars. Then we know that land topographically it's really difficult. It's not a flat piece of land. So you factor in the site work that you'll creating retaining
conditions and the earthwork involved in it. Just the parking spaces alone the probable cost is about $5 million. You will spend $2 million in site work over there to create that. So when I say it's fantasylike,
we have town services that says they don't have adequate parking. We create an idea like this. We think that a private public partnership is going to solve the problem by absorbing
our cost, if not all of it, a large share of it, so that we could have parking. I've yet to meet a de developer that's philanthropic. They are profit oriented.
They care about themselves first and secondly they care about themselves. this idea that we're going to solve our problem by finding a private use of the land, incorporating into it some form of residence so we can
create 60 parking spaces and and and we need a study to do that or we're going to issue an hour long before the RFP should even be talked about. The planning board should have been part of the process.
I I could easily direct anybody. Simon Design, a Welssley based firm, all they do is parking solutions. Call Alan Simon. Ask Alan Simon, "What do you think of this idea?" You could save all kinds of time, all kinds of money, and
get an answer in about an hour as to whether or not it's feasible or not. That's all those guys do. Where our problem is process. And look where we are. So let's speak about process. There is no formal role that this board has ever
played in a municipal project. We had no formal role in this building right next to us here or in the review of whether this building would get reused or torn down or whether parking lot would be there or over there or over there or how
many parking spaces would be in it. We have not been involved whatsoever in the RFP for East Milton Square for the old fire station or in the new fire station planning or in the Athetherton station planning or in the school >> they did
only only because we insisted on a little bit of review. They we they came to the planning board for this project once there. This is something that has been talked about, I spoke to prior uh planning directors about is that some communities do have a formal review site
plan approval process or at least review process for their municipal projects. We don't have that process set up here. So, this is being treated no differently. A committee is put together. It was uh the library took it to the select board and
asked them to uh uh support this kind of a working group. And that's what the select board agreed to. And if you think that a pling board should have a more formal role, then put the request into the select board and into the library trustees.
>> Do you like the fact that the planning board has no formal role in this? >> I don't. As a planning board member, I think it's terrible. I mean, how do you feel? >> The problem was when you were our representative on the master plan committee, it was never communicated that it that this was even a possible
concept. And there was no there was no >> feedback on this and I did I did have to >> we did ask but it was >> it was communication >> it was both when I spoke to Tim Zwinsky and the town administrator really did not think a parking garage was a good idea. So, I had the sense that this was
not going to keep moving forward and yet it still is is being pushed for and I just want to be realistic and I want I would like to help the library find resolution and the solutions >> whether whether this board is required
or not required. I'm talking about just something that's reasonable, logical and sensible. We it is reasonable to ask the planning board for some input,
ask the planning board for some support, ask the planning board to conduct a study for them. You know, it the the trustees of the library, I assume their credentials align with library programming. I would never
run for that position. I don't feel I'm qualified to offer anything. I feel like I'm qualified to offer something here in the planning board, but to think that the library trustees are struggling trying to find a park a parking solution and the planning board
isn't thought of as a reasonable place to go to ask for some support. It it's it's going to prove to be a pretty frustrating process because what I just outlined is the conclusion that we'll get to.
and we might get to it in six months with a response from the from the private sector that essentially says something very similar to what I said that's not going to get us any closer to the solution to the problem.
So, chasing 60 spaces by hoping for a so-called public private uh solution incorporating residential across the street from town hall.
>> Residential was one of the options that was mentioned. Office space was another option that was mentioned. And it there's not going to be a prescribed use as far as I understand put into the RFP. And just look, we just we have an RFP that we're going to ret talk about,
right, for the East Milton Fire Station where the use is left wide open and it's left to the development community to come back and tell the town whether there's a viable reuse of that fire station. And this is the same idea. They'll development community will come
back and tell the select board and the library trustees whether there's a viable public private partnership that could help do this here. I don't think anyone in this room is qualified to say yes or no that there is a viable way to make this work. That's why this is a a
process that a consultant was gauged and an RFP is being recommended. >> Cheryl, the residential, what did you say the residential was an idea? Is that what you described it as? >> Residential was not it's not a >> it's not a prescribed requirement.
>> It's featured. I mean possibility when you well can you go back to can somebody take us back to the screen for a moment please back to the document >> I don't think you watched the the you didn't attend the forum I don't think watched it either because this was made very clear in the forum >> I did not attend it I did not >> I didn't either so we should discuss it
now >> but can issues were presented and it was said there was no other use that was a requirement >> this it make it sound like it's my fault for not attending a forum when we're the planning board and we weren't engaged and I do have an issue with that But if
you scroll through the the the the featured examples are residential examples. >> Well, it talks about in initial site studies, parking in residential, parking at office. There's always been discussions about a cafe. I've I've
heard I've heard the thought of a cafe, >> you know, >> but the images as we go to the end, right? >> Yeah. Those were the consultant put together as examples of public private partnerships where the community yielded a public benefit by having a partnership
model and that's what the consultant showing. Is it the exact model for here? No, of course not because this isn't the those communities had a different need. So who d so who directed the consultant
to come up with housing and um office space? So I would think when you hire a consultant to solve your problem, you present the problem of my problem is I don't have enough parking. >> And that's what Chris Hogland said that
really the library trustees all they really want is parking. >> Yes. So who consulted or advised or told the consultant to come up with what Sean was just talking about and all of this?
So clearly um somebody told them to do this. So that's one thing. So to go back, I've um attended both um forums as well. I have been paying attention pretty
closely and I um also had a couple questions. So under why we're here it says the select board support and it said received unanimous approval for the task force to delve into expanding parking
after two presentations. So um and on it said specifically the task force and you know Sean mentioned the four members of the task force. What date did the select board need
in did and they voted to support and create this task force? because I haven't been able to find that and my recollection is before the first um um public forum the select board met
and their um they I think only met and directed oh let's have a forum to discuss parking was a parking issue so yes at that point in time it was a unanimous approval to
discuss parking But on this slide, it says received unanimous approval for the task force. So I would like to know the date when this task force was formed. And I would like to watch that select board meeting
so I can hear for myself what this task force was directed to do. Um because you know the the library is a victim of its own
success. I think um they have self-inflicted um issues. I love the library. Madam mentioned this before, the East Milton Library. Um the children's m the
children's um room was named after my um grandmother and my father because we supported the library. So I don't want people saying I don't support the library. I support the library. Um I support everything about the library. Um
but I also support um the rest of the town. I support our green spaces. Um, and I just don't understand how we got from parking to how we got to this um to
this. And the conversation at the first forum was all about gathering spaces. The town needs gathering spaces. And I offered up, you know, my business and I suggested other businesses in town would gladly offer gathering spaces. you know,
the plate closed and no one had any any place to go because the plate closed. Um, so and I was frustrated to hear, you know, that um Milton Youth football is and cheer meeting at the library. That's
the biggest program in town. The biggest program in town, football and cheer. And I know that because I was part of it. Why are they meeting at um the library? That doesn't really make any sense to me. Um, we have a shuttle that Milton
Hospital is um providing to their employees down to St. Elizabeth's Church. Why can't the library team up um and and with Milton Hospital with that for their employees? Um I I do have a
problem with the process, too. Um and I feel like this has gotten ahead of everybody in town. No one really knows about it. And you know, we are a planning board and we're here to move forward with good ideas,
but also our job is to scrutinize those ideas that might have some shortcomings. And I believe that this project has a lot of shortcomings and it's not in the best interest of the town. And yes, because we're short
staffed, we don't have the finances. I don't know why we're moving ahead on something that I don't think in the end is a good thing for the town. >> Liz, can you click to the next slide? This this reads development,
partnerships, and examples. Lawrence Hill. >> Yep. >> What's the next slide? >> The next one I think was at was Yeah. So, municipal parking, adaptive reuse, historic property, retail opportunity,
branch library. So, that's the that's the that's the you know, that's sort of the creative piece where you could you could try to >> Yeah, I'm very familiar with that. I'm in that building often, but we all know today um
office space is not being built. Office space is not there's more empty office space everywhere. It's not office space will never be built on on in a in a if we're asking a a developer to build something, the only thing they're going to build is residential.
>> We have a an expanding hospital where their medical practices that are taxpaying the offices for those practitioners are not in Milton. So, their tax dollars are going to adjacent communities. They're the largest employer in town
hospital >> medical office doctor's office. If you look at the draft of the existing conditions that hopefully we're going to talk about the Milton economic development plan, you'll see in there the kinds of office space that's in
demand and the reason and they have app that part of the problem with Milton is is that the uh what's offered as office space isn't meeting the demand of the office market. So um you know whether
again whether there's opportunity for um having a piece of property that is currently tax exempt of an opportunity to have tax revenue come from that property is something the larger community should have a conversation about and it should definitely be beyond
you know this board or one or or two boards. It's a it's a discussion for the town overall. So hopefully people will think about whether this is an opportunity that the town should consider u as we have uh to be creative in meeting our our needs and our
challenges. There's no clear solution um for how to to meet the needs of the library and there's tradeoffs and people are going to have to weigh in on what they think is an acceptable trade-off. And so hopefully people will watch the presentation, will go through the slide
deck and all of the information as Chris said is on the libraries website and then offer their own opinions uh as they continue to gather them and be informed by them. And everybody here can participate in the next public forum.
>> Problem is that this is the door is closed to anything except the proposed building across from town hall. You know what? I'm just going to go back that there was >> So, one thing I learned studied. >> So, one thing I learned from the memory clinic is that when you tear up wetlands
and you build on that, you can reconstitute the wetlands as long as it's something like a 4:1 ratio. And it looks like at the Reedsdale site, you have plenty of space to move the wetlands and and put a parking lot right there adjacent to the library where somebody could easily walk right to the
building. just seems like >> again if you >> to me it seems like a no-brainer to be there. >> You listen to the forum, the conservation commission and the conservation officer were contacted about that and it was a no-go is a non-starter. The trustees work reached out to the hospital about the shuttle
bus no capacity because they needed it. >> The hours for the church parking lots don't coincide with the need. It's all in the report. It's all in the presentation. So as somebody just about to go through as a member as a member I
mean I think it's fair for us to have some conversation here and maybe you could answer some of the questions but so there's no room on the bus for uh there's no room let me say it differently the hospital transportation had no capacity to support the library. Is that what you're saying?
>> They needed it for themselves. >> Did we consider getting our own transportation >> to where? >> Down to St. Elizabeth's >> there's no capacity in that lot for anybody but the >> council on aging because one of the >> full capacity as well
>> the council on aging's >> they are >> to bring it's the parking lot that is at capacity not the shuttle bus >> so >> it's the parking at the council on aging that's at capacity it's the parking around town hall that's at capacity and
the times at which the churches are available which they can't commit to a a u on on a regular basis are not the times of highest demand. So, you know, it might be a couple hours here or there, but you it's not like you could tell people who want to participate in a
program that that's going to be available at that time of that program. So there all of these things were um studied and all and there's more detail on on the library's website about them and I'm sure they'd be happy to go through them all again and some and and
have a summary but it's all there and if you would like to have a more detailed recap of all those at the next forum I'm sure they'll be happy to provide that. >> I'd rather have somebody attend the planning board representing the uh representing the committee and answer the questions that we have. >> That would be great.
I just know the memory clinic had a river running through it and they were able to build on that. I can't see why you can't do that here. Just looking at this, it doesn't make sense. There's not a lot of land. >> It's a nogo. >> It looks like it's enough for maybe not 50 or 60 parking spaces, but 20 or 30.
>> It was all It was all flagged for the wetlands. There was a survey prepared with it all flagged. >> Did they look into regenerating the wetland somewhere else? >> Steve, I talked about it. Well, I do have to say we what we have a responsibility is in the master plan and
protecting the historic character of the town and scenic roadways are under our provision which means stonewall removal, tree removals. This literally would be and the hypocrisy is we would have a sign tree city USA and then we would
clearcut that lot and you cannot dig with a spoon. It is a clearcut to to put parking in that. I know you're you keep using the term clear-cut, Meredith. It's not clearcut. You have, you know, look at just recently these recent storms. How many trees came down across town?
Trees have lifespans, too. The trees are being evaluated. From what I understand is the DCR forester has identified trees of value which are near and in the wetlands and trees that according to his
opinion uh were of low value. So that work, that report will come out. So let's let's just be clear instead of using terms that we know are inflammatory natural buffer. It's a natural. >> But let's let's just be realistic. You're an architect. The math of 60 spaces is, as I said, you probably know
it very well yourself. It's 20,000 square ft. If you're going to create a 20,000t area for parking, no matter how you do it, and then you need a perimeter around it, what do you call taking all the trees off half an acre? I think it's fair to call it clear cut.
>> 60 spaces is two levels. One level is not is not that size footprint that's being discussed. >> So you think you're going to do 30 over 30? Is that what you're saying? >> You got a lot of topographic change there and that's the possibility. >> It's getting more expensive. It's getting even more expensive. You know,
it's it's a fantasy. It'll never happen. But I guess I'm arguing this point that, you know, we can't have people listening to this think that we're gonna selectively take trees out. You're going to take out half an acre of trees. The way that Meredith described it is an accurate way to describe it. You're going to clearcut where you going to put
the building. There's nothing wrong with that with that description. That's in fact what's going to happen. >> And this is a national historic district. >> How does that how does that contribute to preserving the character of a bucolic historic district? >> Is it the role of the planning board to
sit here and have an argument about it? Submit the comments. Submit your concerns. Let the library know how you feel about it. If you want to have the library, if you want to have role in discussing it, it sounds like you're left off to having any discussion about whether there's something that can happen there or not. I don't know what
role planning board would have. >> This has gone so far down the road without the planning board being brought into it. >> And you're a member of that group. >> You could have come to us and said, "Hey, here's what I'm working on to help the library." >> We've known that this is being worked on.
>> Why do why do you make it that way? We've known >> you make it sound like you haven't been aware of this and you have been aware of it because it's you went to a forum in 2024 about this at least these folks >> outer cher this is like the conversation about
master planning we're supposed to read your mind you come here every you know that master plan committee or that master plan article that you were working on you easily could have said something to the planning board you chose not to and again you're working on this and you chose noer this
This is true. This is your This is way off agenda. >> I agree. You know what? >> Let's We're going to move on. >> Well, can I just talk about the DCR permanent forester? I just find it interesting that the DCR forers
professional opinion was totally ignored during the land swap discussion. >> That's not on the topic. Now all of a sudden the DCR land foresters opinion has so much weight. At least I'm
consistent. Trees are trees no matter what site you're on and where you're located. So you can't pick and choose um to have professionals just because it's fits a certain agenda. But if we're
moving on, I still would like answers to my questions. So, I'm not sure who to ask the an where do I get who will answer my questions. >> Chris said it at the beginning. Send it to she and to >> what dates did the select board need?
>> Send them an email and ask them for the date >> to support um this project and when did they um unanimously approve um the the task force? >> Okay. So, if it would be helpful, I
would be more than happy to summarize the the the the discussion here this evening and put it into into some type of a a format, a comment letter, a you know, a a um um desire on behalf of the
board to, you know, to make their to to put their um ideas and and opinions, you know, in that format and to be part of the RFP development process. So, I I'm happy to do that. I think that's probably the most efficient way to move
forward and and if and if in the future, you know, you want to think about the process for for weighing in on these, you know, municipal types of projects, then maybe that's another discussion to have a more formal process for that. And
also um before a project is even considered just from again a process should we be cons looking for a traffic plan and my understanding is the DPW doesn't have a traffic engineer so shouldn't the first
step always be to evaluate >> I think they are doing a traffic but I don't know >> but that should be done prior to moving forward with any design or suggestion So, I would also like to know if a
traffic um if anybody consulted anybody, has the traffic commission been um spoken with? What are their thoughts? Do you know if they've been reached out to >> the traffic commission? I don't know. Um
the report from the consultant came in since the forum. Uh, I think if it's not on the website, it will be on the website and I'm sure it will be summarized in the next public forum. Um,
>> and I think the memo the same when the forester prepare uh finishes it will be made available to the only website. >> I ironic thing about this is every other project in town, every development, we're focused on reducing parking. are
focused on increased walkability, increase um biking and oh, we don't need more parking. Let's reduce parking. Oh, let's put, you know, 100 units here, but let's only give them 50 parking spots
because they don't need it. So, this is the only project in town that seems to really need more parking. And I just think that's um a contradiction in our goals in town. All right. Thank you, Liz. That would be
great if we can just sort of, you know, it's just sort of a rough draft of, you know, some questions and um interested in being involved in and being solutionoriented because if there is a real problem, which I don't hear people complaining about parking there, but
apparently there is um some issues at certain times that we would, you know, it would be great to address. So, um with that, I'm going to move us to the next uh item. agenda item economic development planning. Um continued
discussion um for those who are Liz, do you do you have an update? I watched the select board meeting on Tuesday. Um, and it sounds like what they're interested in doing is working with the planning board um in allocating a 50 $50,000
amount from the um from free cash and splitting it between the planning board and the select board. Um I think at this time they would like to to know that the planning board would be interested in continuing to participate in an economic
development plan. Um my understanding from Nick is we don't have to I've shared the scope of work the the contract with MAPC or I've asked that that Nick shared the contract the scope of work that that we had accomplished and the um existing
conditions report that had been provided by MAPC so that the select board could see the work that we've already done because we wouldn't want to be recreating that you know that same work no matter what consultant we've worked with um I did just put a plug in because
I thought MAPC was doing a great job. They've done a great job with the public outreach particularly with East Milton Square. Um and at this point we don't have to determine scope quite yet although we have Judy Barrett scope. Um I know Cheryl you had some suggestions
and some ideas of you know things that maybe you would want to see on MAPC. I think Nick what he just needs for us because we can put this on the agenda again. He just needs to know that we would like to accept $25,000 and participate with the select board on doing an economic plan and then we can
have a future conversation on what that scope would look like. Um, one of the things and again we can put this on another meeting. We've done a lot of work with East Milton in the Milton Village and as you saw like in Judy Barrett's she was talking about looking
at East Milton looking at Milton Village. I don't know whether we would like to just to be thinking about this maybe advocate for a more focused economic development plan on the west side of town which has sort of been one
of our goals to really give that some real, you know, study um for economic development and really providing some things that I've been hearing that areas in Milton don't feel like we've and I know you brought this up that they that
those certain areas have not been studied. studied the way East Milton and the Milton village are. So, would we want to have a focused concentration um in in in the west part of Milton since we literally the ink is just dried
on the east Milton overlay zoning. We're just seeing things begin in Milton Village. Again, we don't have to discuss this, but we might want to have some recommendations on what kind of scope that we would be looking at. But personally, I think this um is great
that they are um wanting to continue this work and they would want to allocate funds to to work collaboratively together. >> How does that work? Collaborative together work? >> That was my question. So obviously we would have to determine
the scope which they had wanted our input on the scope of an economic plan. I think um I would like to see um both our leading by our staff our our planning staff to sort of coordinate. I
think what we would have to have is the consultant would operate in public forums. So our board would attend the you know sort of walk through the way MAPC when there's a public forum when there's updates that we actually have a separate meeting outside of planning board meeting outside of select board
meeting and have our meetings held at council on aging and have you know our up our updates our reports all made publicly and um and we're >> so we um in a process we met with MAPC
>> um when they started the work and their existing conditions report references our comments. I I don't know why we would stray from the scope that was a contracted with for MAPC
and in except that they could incorporate some of what we uh provided them in that meeting uh in October of 24 because this is the first thing they've really gotten since that meeting
>> um and I think we all had agreed >> um at to the scope then I mean having read like to do. That's what I I would love to keep with MABC to continue. >> And having read through the the report, there's a lot of good data and their next steps that are listed in the report
make a lot of sense to me. >> Yeah. >> Um and looking at their scope of work and their next task, they would be moving on to task two, which is the community and stakeholder engagement. They were hired to do that
for the uh East Molton fire station. They were hired to do that in u the west side for Pota Circle and for seven brushill road. And so um I think um it makes sense to me if they still have the
people who were working on this available to continue to do the work that they were contracted to do. I guess as an amendment or change order or with different funding source and the select board. Um >> so I think you short you probably short
a little bit of money. >> Yeah, because that's sort of going to say this budget originally was $99,390 and now it just seems like they're $50. I mean $50,000. So I would think that it would have to
be reduced. So, and I read through the existing, you know, conditions and I found it interesting that I don't think it was 100% accurate. Um, so under the um, you know,
the occupancy of office commercial and industrial real estate by tenure, it you know, it lists a lot of businesses in town, but it doesn't list a lot of businesses in town. Um, >> so we had to find out where they got
their the source of the information. >> Correct. And um, >> so you're talking about the appendix C >> on page 14 of so it's co co-star >> which is pretty which is pretty pretty industry and real estate
>> data. Then you go over to the next page 33 page 33 of 40 and it lists. So, it says on page one that there's 707 business establishments. So, I would like to get a list of those 707 business
establishments um with their addresses. And I understand that if you take like um you know, the Rockland Trust Building in East Milton, there's a lot of businesses in there. So, let's group the the
businesses by addresses so we can figure out where they are located. I do like Merida's suggestion about um doing it on the west side of town because I think that's really um where the the greatest
potential is. Um East Milton has been studied to death and I don't think that they're ready for anything new to go over there at this moment in time. Um, so if we really are actively trying to
move the needle, um, I think the greatest potential is, um, the west side of town. You know, somewhere in this they mentioned Randolph A and Randolph A has changed considerably with the the
all the development um, and the road diet. So I kind of feel like that needs to get put on the back burner till we all that development gets um finished and then we can understand the impacts. So I think if we're trying to reduce the
scope um financially because we don't have the funds we should be realistic in in what we want and then also I am concerned about you know two boards what if we have differing opinions
um how whose opinion um you know you know what who takes reference Um, and I am greatly concerned about that. >> Isn't the idea to finish what is the
Isn't the idea to finish what MAPC started? >> That's what I think we should do. >> Wait. >> So about 20 of it has been has 20 20,000 of the hundred is the is what you see what's happened. So it's 80
>> and so you've got 50 So, >> so some So, or is it 60? I thought for some reason I thought did it change to 50? I thought I heard 60, but maybe it's 50. Let's assume it's 50. So, so there's 30 grand that has to come out of this. >> So, what's their time frame though?
Because can it come out of two fiscal year budgets? >> Yeah, that's what I was wondering >> because earmark certain amount >> from both boards. It should come from both boards and you know um so maybe use planning study funds for fiscal 27
potentially. >> Okay. >> And you know I just feel as if it needs to be what we what it started out to be which is the business districts and then add West Milton. I think West Milton is the densest area we are we have in town
and I think the opportunities are going to be for local neighborhood retail at at most >> and is there more that we can get from anything else I don't know is it Randolph a but I think the town will want town's people will want to know you
know is there a way to have another revenue stream so the taxes on the residential uh taxpayers aren't continuously burdened. And in order to do that, I think you have to look at the whole town. You can't answer that question for residents without looking
at the whole town. You can still address what we know there's been an interest in in neighborhood services in a part of town that doesn't have them. we talked about um which wasn't included was um the pre-existing
>> um businesses and I to me that is hugely important and that is not in the original scope and I really think we should put that in >> I absolutely agree that should be added to it >> thinking we all talked about that at that October meeting
>> they're um they're three based on the way I interpret their their contract get three months into a 12-month task. So, we should be able to span calendar years >> cuz they have nine if from the moment we
go forward um the way they outline it, they have nine months to go. >> Yeah. It was supposed to wrap in 2025. >> Yeah. That's sad. and the fund and and it was fun >> was funding >> but it was a full year to be it was 12 months to begin with right >> right >> so
>> I mean it does it doesn't make sense to do 75% of it it makes sense to do it all >> and add those certain areas well I would um entertain a motion to accept working you know accept the grant for the
whether it's the and we'll clarify whether It's 25,000 or 30,000. >> Is the select board okay with completing this this MAPC work? >> Yeah, that would we would want to ask. >> I mean, they they it sounds like they're okay with with funding,
but we we should make sure that they're okay with funding so we can get MAPC going again. >> Yeah. Have they reviewed the scope that MAPC had been contracted for this and this um existing conditions component?
you know, so I shared both of those documents with with the town administrator and um I I think I think Meredith kind of captured it at the outset that there was there there would be some discussion about about and that's part of these two boards, both of
your boards sort of co-leading this. It would probably be some discussion about that similar to to maybe including West Milton and talking about pre-existing maybe some of the pre-existing legacy businesses. They may have some things. >> So before we so I and I don't know I
don't know >> those details pardon me. >> I think that take those details back Meredith and Liz to the to the select board that we'd like to finish this scope. We'd like to add the pre-existing non-conforming and we'd like to add
>> uh West Milton which was not included in here previously. >> So >> no, won't the question be what additional funds too? >> So I is it do you think it's is it possible to ask MAPC what those additional components would cost? Do we
>> and and at least then we'll go into the select board with that >> a complete value. >> Sure. >> Okay. >> And I you know if you if you want to ask
them if there's anything that they would think that they can tweak here since this was two years ago scope >> um >> to help with the cost. because now since this we the East Milton overlay zoning's been done so
that there was a lot of >> you know out outreach so that would be less outreach that they would have to go back. >> One of the things I think that happened there is that left in question was some of the those pre-existing non-conforming that look like they're in the business district but they're not and they're not
in the overlay. I I really think that that's part of East Milton is to update the business district to at least have the conversation because the overlay is on its own. The business zoning is separate, remember? So like should that where Rockland Trust is be in the
business district, you know, and because then you're having it be um not have to go to the board of appeals every time there's a change. And I understand that, but I I also understand that we've already heard from East Milton residents that they don't want it.
>> But that that particular >> I know that there's a couple of properties. So I think >> I think that is in our map, >> but it's not in the business it's not in the business district as I'm saying. So you have the underlying zoning and you have the overlay. The overlay has one thing, but it's not the same as the
business district. So if we put it in the overlay, we should look at the underlying too is what I'm saying. >> That's fair. Is there is there any um is there any need to to um to
accept the except the the the split with the budget? Is there any is there any need to >> I think well the only question is it sounded like Nick needs to get it approved by the warrant committee, right, for town meeting, right? So if I mean we have to think about if how
much this is going to cost and it's going to be a lot and planning board you know we just put our funds into codification but um we did I would say if there's a planning board funds for the next fiscal year if we can get consensus or a vote that we would put
funds in I don't wouldn't wanted to see 100% of our funds because we don't know what else needs we might have but if we could get free cash and select board and piece together because I think it really is an important >> effort and it should come from multiple
sources not just from our minimal budget. >> So what is our FY27 budget? >> 50,000. >> How much? >> 50. We asked for 100 >> plus the codification for >> the plus the codification. >> That's yes. So that's so >> that hasn't changed in
>> put a request in for >> I think we I think we went up to I think it was up to 100. It was 50 additional we're getting >> down 35 I thought. >> Right. Exactly. 85 total. >> So we got 85 total. Okay. >> So we have 85 and so now 25 of that is
going to this. >> That would be given to us in addition. >> Okay. So that would come from free cash in addition. So >> we'd have 110 contribute to this at all. >> The select board contribute to this at all? Yeah. 25.
>> We should ask for another in the next year. >> It's from free cash. Yeah. That that's >> so we should ask for them to consider another piece of funding from the next fiscal year too piece it together from multiple sources in two different fiscal
years. I guess is what I'm suggesting. >> There's there's at least a $30,000 shortfall >> plus 30,000 is the shortfall that we know right now. plus when you ask for those additional services and and I mean to be to be >> I guess we have to consider this was
June of 24 it's 2 years old >> you know and this is this is primarily their labor you know and if their hourly rates have changed we we we may we may see something that >> well the other thing is MAPC has grant
funding available >> true >> we have benefited from that in East Milton Square and Milton village. >> And I know at one point we were told that if you avail yourself of the grant funding and you don't actually proceed
with the zoning, then you're less likely to get approved for future grant funding. But we did just approve East Milton and we did previously approve Milton Village. So the uh I think it's worth asking if whether there's any
grant opportunity to help and even if it's passed for right now, if we plan it out for the next fiscal year again. >> So yep, absolutely. So I guess yeah we do have just some questions and that we would we would like to move forward with
this adding to this you know to the scope that we have but maybe there's areas that MAPC >> feels like they they could reduce um the costs in some areas if >> the funding question though like to sort of have that beginning that sort of like
basis of that funding with these additional sort of pieces to be to be resolved. We would want that 25 to 30. >> We'll never say no to money. >> Okay. >> Well, for this purpose, correct? Okay. Yeah. I just want I just want to we would like to make sure 25 to 30. And
>> well, if we need a vote on it, >> if we would need a vote on it, then do we need a vote, Liz? >> It s I I mean, it sounded >> probably just Yeah. >> I mean, are you comfortable with just a sense of the board or do you think a vote a vote would be better? Why don't we just take a vote just to let them
know that um >> and then I'll make a motion to um I guess it's to accept >> free cash >> uh $25,000 uh free cash um to be earmarked for the
next steps in the economic development plan that was started by MAPC. >> Second. >> Second. All in favor? >> Quick discussion. We can still add to the scope and tweak it, right? >> Next meeting. The meeting after >> Yes. And that's what Nick was saying.
Don't worry about the scope tonight. Really, he just needs to know that we would accept the the funds to work towards completing. >> Okay. And so, so it's we'll be involved in the process of this creating
>> and I agree that I I think we would like to pass on that we would like to continue with MAPC and continue >> the study a little bit updated >> the scope that we have but maybe and add the West Milton and non non-conforming businesses
>> I don't think it's makes sense to shift honestly I mean as much as I think Judy Barrett's company is a wonderful company and do great work I mean it's like uh you'd have to sort of start again why throw
>> 20,000 why do One thing that would be really cool is that at the end of this, if we could get some kind of a value for every commercial, every square foot of commercial space adds whatever to revenue >> and it helps us with our deficit. You
know, our town deficit, you say >> 100,000 square feet at $18 mill rate and you've balanced your budget. I don't know if it's as simple as that, but that would be super helpful for me >> reading this just to see >> what all this means.
>> So maybe one of the things I mean we have a motion to vote, but one of the things still uh Liz, I think if we could have a representative from MAPC come in and talk to us, you know, just a kind of brainstorm on the scope to address your question to address these other things
that we've talked about. Um or if if you feel like if you can do that with them and report back, that's okay, too. But >> um >> yeah, I call the vote. >> Yes. So, I think we had a second. Okay. All in favor?
>> I >> Thank you. Um so, now the next um is the East Milton uh fire station. just any comments that we would like to provide on the RFP. Um
>> I have um Maggie sent sent some comments around. So I made I made any copies. I'll just hand I'll just hand them around. >> Is that the extent of the RFP what we had in our documents that was emailed? >> That's it. >> That's it. Yep. >> Mine draft.
>> No, not yours. >> I think I have them already. John. >> Okay. I have two I have two hard copies of the document if anybody Okay. If anybody wants wants want wants one in front of me. Yeah.
>> Document the RFP. >> The draft the draft RFP. Yep. >> Did you get that a copy, Cheryl? >> Okay. >> And you want to give that point to J? >> I'll take one. And then >> yeah, it was an extra Avante, did you
get one? >> Uh, yeah. That's the one that Liz gave me earlier. >> Okay. All right. So, do you want to >> Oh, yeah. So when I was reading this RFP, again I attended the forum um and
it was a great discussion and what I got out of that forum was there was an overwhelming desire for the town to retain ownership of the building and the property and and and you know when they went through
and the doc the memo document that summarized the forum it, you know, it states, you know, received 15 points. Town owned commercial space. So, so um you know, I wasn't just alone
in my thinking. It's here in the the the memo that summarized it. So when I was reading this um RFP, I didn't get the sense that this RFP reflected the will of the um the
taxpayers and the residents. And for those people who did not um attend the forum, there's also been a robust conversation on um Facebook about um about the
property and I think um that discussion also confirms that um you know most residents want to keep it somehow. So, so I felt like this RFP needed to um
reflect the desire on of the town to keep it and to work with any business or developer to um to come in and form a lease partnership with the town. So, I
just created some language that could possibly be used in the introduction so that when a developer or business owner received started reading this RFP, they kind of knew where the town of Milton
stood. It wasn't like confusing for them because even if you go through the go through it, it sends a mixed message all through it. It says, you know, if it is a select award's preference that the
property be sold or leased. So the the whole selling and sold takes priority over the lease. Um and you know there's a whole at the end a whole per u purchase and sale
um you know document at the end. So, I was sort of thinking, would it be possible to suggest that, you know, we the first RFP be for um a lease agreement
um and put that out there and see what what comes back. And also in the RFP, it's stated that it's the um up to the applicant to um they're
responsible for obtaining any and all permits and variances and may be required to go to the planning board, the zoning board, conservation. So, is there anything that we can do to help a propo a potential business not be
so scared of the process? So, like what can we do ahead even of the RFP going out? You know, Cheryl, you've talked about like the parking. So, maybe we need to wave the parking um requirement for that site. So, we need the town
needs to um make it easier for an interested party to want to lease it. >> I agree. Um and I think the long it probably needs to be a long-term lease though because they're going to have to put a lot of money into it and uh it's
not something you could do on a short lease and have capital. But I think we should say um I I don't know if we can do that. Um one of the things Liz, it would be interesting to find out >> is um whether that would have to be a
zoning board of appeal decision. But the other thing is like if it's pre-existing building that I know like for the Falcone building when they renovated um the building on Adam Street, the twotory building there
and it doesn't you know they it didn't trigger any new parking requirements because it was just a renovation. So what they had on site was all that they were required. So, I'm I don't know how that works on a municipal building that's already existing that gets
renovated for a new use. Would that trigger a parking requirement or would it be one of those grandfathered uses? So, I maybe that's a question for Kathleen O'Donnell, the ZBA, >> or what maybe um Michael White has an
understanding. But I I do absolutely think that we need to be clear because to say that you're going to need to meet the requirements of the zoning, the underlying zoning of the if it's business which looks like people supported, right? Um the the parking
requirements would precluded if you had to meet it. Um and I do think there's um the site's small and if you the way they say you could you could e you could
tear it down. Um then and they say they don't have to go with the highest bidder and then they give some advantages or disadvantages. In order for that, I think to
pass muster and not be challenged by someone who submits, it has to be clearer than it I think than it is. Um, so >> be helpful to put it in. >> I I I think it would be helpful to find out about the what waiverss could be
given. >> Yeah. What the >> And it might be that it only is offered up that the town will work to help support that development instead instead of saying that it's they're on their own.
>> Yeah. U because we can't promise something if it's a ZBA action until it happens, right? But it would be nice to have clarity on on what we think the parking situation would be in preserving the existing building. >> The the the way it's written is
confusing. Uh to me it'd be confusing. Um you can make an offer to either lease it or to sell it. The idea of selling it, we have no control over the building. The building the building can be torn down. So, if we I almost feel we need to make
a decision. Do we want the building? And if we want the building and we don't want to see it go, then I agree with what you said, Maggie. I think we should remove the sale option and put it out there to police. But I also agree with what you're talking about, Charl. We should make it attractive and tell them
right now when you put it out there what relief we're going to give them for parking. You have to. >> You have to. Nobody's going to be interested in that property if they have no idea what the parking is going to be like. I I believe part of the RFP should be the relief.
>> And it is it is the it is the board. It is the board of >> But maybe it needs to go to the ZBA. I I feel like we're the town of Milton is rushing this RFP and I think the town of Milton should do some due diligence before issuing an RFP. And that could
take time and I think it is for the ZBA to discuss and it's for us to discuss. So what we could do is think about a zoning amendment to the business district ourselves. So uh you know we could have it be that on a parcel such
and such you know that this this business parking requirement is waved could be waved by the planning board. We could put that into the zoning right >> is that spot zoning. >> I mean no it would apply to other >> it would apply to others >> um areas. So we would have to look to
see what other properties are. >> I always consider waiverss. I always consider anything that like is a waiver is is varying. So I always want to put that in the board of appeals bucket. But could there be a special permit >> to to reduce like a special permit by the planning board to reduce the
parking? Yeah, because we have that in our overlays. We have that >> in in our mixed use overlays and I think we have it in the MBTA zoning overlays where um a case can be made for >> not having the minimum parking
requirement. So, if we can craft something that's an amendment to the underlying business zoning >> because it's right now I think it's one space it's four spaces per thousand which equates to one space per 250 I did an analysis, you know, the um building
where the post office is in Milton Village that I 60 Adam Street. >> Yeah. That building to meet the parking requirements of the size of that building would be a garage behind it. >> You know, it's just it's just not feasible in any of our business districts. We should just change it
period. um and figure out, you know, some some places um you know, you're talking about Chadam, they solve their I think it's Main Street it's called, but they're their parking for a lot of those businesses are in is in a
municipal number of municipal lots >> and you know that's you know shared parking for the districts is really what is re feasible for for Milton. Um, so having these small parcels that have to park themselves mean it means you can't
reinvest. They can't reinvest and that's going to come out in the economic development study, I'm sure. So why not tackle that? Um, >> yeah, it's true. When when I first saw this, I my first inclination was, you
know, that the town should just figure out what they want and and and permit it and >> zone it and permit it for that and then sell it like but but the town but the town really can't be that's what a developer does. Like a the town's not a developer, you know what I mean? >> So you put all that energy into like a
certain type of you know reuse and then there's no market for it. If the if the if the desire is to keep the building, >> if that I'm not saying that is that's I'm not saying that's the only thing I I'm in support of, but if that is the
case, we should accompany the RFP with the relief that >> someone who's going to lease it would need to be able to operate. >> We should. >> Yeah. But the relief has to be granted on a specific proposal. >> I understand. But you could issue an RFP
and and the condition would be based on Milton >> creating the relief, right? You know, I I know we don't have it, but you could issue the RFP and say, you know, the the the um um
>> the applicant can rely or can propose relief that will be considered as part of the applic >> entertain any relief. >> That language is good. that works. Yeah. You know, they they just they just we need to make it appealing. And if if you
don't put language like that in or you don't create the relief in advance, no one's going to want it, >> right? >> Especially if you're going to keep the building. It's a different story. If you're going to allow them to tear it down, then it's a different story alto together. You know, I even that though is going to need some sort of some sort
of relief if you're if you go that way. Well, the problem if you tear it down, you're going to need relief because it won't be you won't it's it's so difficult to meet the zoning, >> you know, like what would you such a like the Swift hat shop? >> Yeah. Like how
>> so it's so tight. It's like this you'd have to do some land assembly. >> I know it it's this this I mean I I was saying this recently in one of the one of our meetings. It is all about geometry. It's it's it's the physical geometry that exists is really hard. But
uh let's give it a shot. >> But I think the way just like I said earlier about testing the market, you know, the way you test the market on whether it's viable to do the historic restoration of that building is to put it out for that purpose. And if you don't get anything in response, then the
market's telling you something. >> U but at least you've put it out there to try to >> That's a consistent philosophy on my part. >> Yes. And I So Maggie, I really appreciate what you've drafted here. Um, and I think that's good like feedback
for Liz to if you could convey that. >> I'll definitely pass it pass it along and >> and just are the proposed language changes that we would put in and the other um and then the summary as well of the discussion here tonight. I heard on
the meeting that the appraisal was due I think the 1st of April. >> So next so next so next week. So, so I would say about the appraisals are >> we may not get the use we want if it has to meet an appraised value
>> because if you think about local businesses, their credit um options are different than on a national chain that has a lot of investment. >> So, we might have to take less to get
what we want. And I think we should be clear about that in the RFP >> in a longer lease term. Yeah, that combination, >> right? >> I agree. Um and then I just wanted to comment on um exhibit E. I guess the um
option to lease agreement >> has the wrong address on it. So that's I don't know where that came from because I don't think it's even accessible. I think it must have just template. >> Yeah, it was like a template. Yeah, just
so I just would want to make sure we were putting it out with the correct and not >> So, is it doable to request that it's only for um a lease and not a sale? Is that >> I can do that. >> I mean, I think you can definitely
absolutely pass that pass that I mean this is the this is the this is the >> put language in that would give Yeah. >> I mean, I I can't say that it's 100% going to be adopted. >> Correct. >> Um and um but
>> it is clearly what we heard at the forum and I think >> was was really across the board. Everyone felt in agreement on that. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean I think if you put on the fiscal
responsibility hat you have to try it and if it doesn't work then you have to go to the next plan. But because I I do think if it if it's a you don't want it to be a financial burden on the town, you know, to keep it, right? So,
um but it's worth testing the market for a lease >> and it's not even available yet. So, I I sort of feel like we're rushing the process. Um you know, the the our firemen are still using the building.
So, one other thing I would say is I know that they have it as an ASIS, but again, if you're the let's just say it's you're the person who wants to me Cheryl August wants to open a cafe bookstore there and it's asis and it's been firefighters and I don't know if it's
got environmental contamination. I don't I don't know what kind of risk that is. I don't know that I can do that if the town sometimes cities and towns will actually take care of remediation if the remediation is needed so that you take away that risk and then you can get that
mom and pop type operation in there. So I think that's something else the town should consider >> in order in order to to make that in order to make that decision and make that commitment before you put it out there. the town should know what that
cost is. that remediation. You don't want to find that value out later after you've if you've you know you're soliciting offers and you don't know what cost you take it on. But it might be an offer that's contingent upon that and then there is time for >> could be
>> a due diligence and then >> could be due diligence >> and to determine what I'm >> I'm just saying it could even keep people away from responding >> because of the risk. You know, the type of people who are willing to take that
risk >> are usually people with deeper pockets or companies with deeper pockets. And that already sets you up not to probably have the type of place that's the mom and pop local place. >> Mhm. >> And the building as it is is 1900 ft,
right? So that's what that's it's 850 over 850 or whatever. What is that? 1900 ft. Is it 950 over 950? Something like that. got so small floor in a staggered second. >> Yeah. So maybe the thing you allow is an addition to it.
>> If you remove the parking requirement and you allow an addition to help I mean that's more of a sale probably but an addition on unless it's a really really long-term lease. trying to see what >> I'm I think what we're saying is we have
to be creative >> and work with >> what we know it's it's going to take to get the kind of uses that people all support >> and this is I think with the way it's written it puts so much risk on an
applicant that it's we're not going to get that. >> Yeah. It's not attractive. >> Want to be so welcoming that we upset the other businesses in town to wave the parking requirement here when Novara has to set up
um parking over it, you know, across the freeway. >> And then these guys now come in with a brew pub and they have all my entertainment. and >> East Milton is already fighting for parking, but we let these guys come in and just have no parking. I think it's a
pretty serious blow to the other businesses. I mean, I I have a hard time with the the no parking thing. I understand where we're going with it. We want to make this building attractive and, >> you know, we think it's going to be a tax windfall and balance our budget, but >> yeah, I think that's a fair concern. Uh
but also um it might create you know the the other way that the businesses may look at it is it creates some synergy and it draws some people to the area too. So so you're right they may look at it and say gee you know that person got relief and and I'm I'm subject to other
constraints but they also may look at it and say geez if there's a brew pub in there they're going to be hungry after a couple after a couple of hours there and maybe maybe it might you know I don't know I'm not sure how they look at it. I suppose our local businesses would comment on that. I don't know. Interesting. Yeah, I see that.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And if it was any type of a special permit, other other businesses could could try to get the special permit, right, to have their parking requirements waved down or what have you. >> Yeah. >> So, so it wouldn't just it couldn't just be that one site unless it was a
variance for that one site. >> However, it's it's town property, right? Maybe that's that's different. >> That's the difference, right? >> Yeah. So, it's not it's not an exception made for one particular, you know, private parcel that's town property. >> Thing I would say is is that the other
businesses have the pre most of them are existing buildings. So, they have that pre-existing situation that I mentioned before. It's just the restaurants that don't because that is treated differently for the parking. So if it was anything but a restaurant, then it's not any different
from everybody else, right? >> So let's see if they would be willing to to reook at that uh RFP and and take that feedback and because I believe they all heard the same. >> I'll I'll draft up I'll draft something
up for this. I'll draft something up for library comments and then I'll circulate it before it goes anywhere. That's great if you guys want to. This one This one might be a little bit more timely than the library one. So, I'll I'll check in with Nick about timing to get to get the
comments in on that on the fire station RFP. All right. Anything else? We can move on. Um and we sort of have talked about the recontification. So, um, is there anything else that you needed
to add to that or that was pretty much our updated and we could we got, you know, voted for our funds to be encumbered to? >> Yeah, that was that I mean and thank you. I wasn't I didn't think I was going to get a vote until next month. Um, which is great because now I don't have to be as worried about the end of the
fiscal year. Um, that's pretty much it. just the conversation and and uh with Carolyn and getting us getting it scope and hopefully getting some of that work underway sooner rather than later. >> Great. And we'd be able to do that because we're not waiting until the next
fiscal year for for for some of the funding. So, I think we should be able to have to figure that out with with um accounting and what have you. But if we can, you know, secure contract for the amount of amount that's available in this fiscal year
right now and then add to it or something, we'll have to figure something out on that. All right, that's great. Okay. And then Yeah. And then we'll And I did have one other question. Do you know because I know we voted and I meant to ask you this in your update
um on the um MAPC's um the economic feasibility um letter that we had asked um >> that we had >> asked to submitted >> we asked the select board to submit to EOHLC. Do you know if they followed
through with that? >> Yes. So that was I think Nick submitted that um I can find it. you submitted that to the folks at EOHLC on February 26th. Okay.
>> Uh and I have not heard, but I do remember the gentleman from MAPC saying that it it's not necessarily the quickest turnaround. So, it's been it's been about a month. >> Yeah. >> So, so >> I didn't think it was too lengthy. I Yeah. >> Yeah. And I and I don't know if it's I
don't know if it's just oh too lengthy in terms of their their >> that we would hear back from EOHS. Right. So I'll I'll um I'll follow up on that. See if there's any any uh news. Thank you. And thank you all for robust discussion. Um and thank you
Maggie for your this addition this language um that we can also forward um maybe with the our RFP for the fire station request. So is there anything else? Otherwise I
would entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Is there a second? All in favor? >> I. Great. Thank you Oh,