e e e e e e e e e e
e e e e e e good evening and welcome to the 22nd meeting of the Milton planning board fiscal year 2025 um at this time I would
like to Now call the meeting to order uh we will begin with our administrative items which include first the approval of minutes and oh first we're going to introduce ourselves yes thank you um I'd like to begin by introducing uh the board and
our staff um if you'd like to begin Sean uh Sean Fahy member Jim Davis member Cheryl toas secretary may you phield member and Meredith Hall serving as chair um and on um in the with us uh but not in the room she's in her office we
have um Julia Gman um unfortunately Cheyenne is out with the flu so thinking of her and hope she um feels better soon um now we can move to the approval of our minutes and um Cheryl is we're still working on edits for those there
were two sets um of edits that were from the 28th of January and double check the dates um but since we don't have the Ed third and the 28th the 23rd and the 28th yeah oh yeah Julie
we can um so since uh we're still working on the edits um they are not ready to be approved this evening so I would ask for a motion to defer the minutes so moved second second okay all in favor I
I thank you um the next um discussion of the next meeting dates we currently um we had to schedule a meeting for next Thursday the 20th which should be a a very brief um very brief meeting it is
essentially um to because of the zoning articles at our last meeting at the last public hearing that we had we moved to discuss them on the following Tuesday but we actually did not take a vote to continue the public hearing so in that
case what happens is it it ends the public hearing so we are going to Simply on next Thursday reopen the zoning articles we can't make any changes in unless the warrant committee recommends that we make a change that would be an opportunity and that is I guess a good thing about having it right before town
meeting if there are any changes um that are that are needed or suggested by the warrant committee we would have an opportunity to do that um if there are no changes um we would simply close the public hearing on that and so that will be next Thursday hopefully you can come
everyone can make it um is it a zoom or it's fully Zoom it's fully Zoom fully remote for that meeting and it should be very brief I mean a half hour um 7:00 at 7 o' yeah um so that is on the
20th um and then we will have uh Julia is reserving the room for us um I think Julia did we say 7:15 uh yeah or I think you you were going to reserve them um so on Monday and Tuesday night just if there's anything that comes up that we would
need to discuss um we will have that and have a room reserved before um the uh town meeting on the 24th and 25th and then we have a regular scheduled meeting on the 27th um at this
time we don't have anything that we absolutely have to have on the 27th so because we will have had quite a few meetings I know we'll discuss um yours but at this time um I think we unless we have some think um very on the 2 because
we will have had Monday Tuesday possibly Wednesday town meeting and so and we will have just moved had that the 20th so we will have Basset Street coming back on the on the 13th um so certainly we could continue any other public hearings um until the 13th as
well I don't know if um 13th of March and then that would be 13th of yeah it's confusing because we have a tonight's 13 and then the March 13th meeting and if something did come up that we needed to we could add a meeting that first week in March but I
think um I think at this time we can uh we will be through our zoning articles which will be great to have those um and hopefully we have a few other things that we've been able to um to wrap up too so and we'll have to talk about a um
forum for East Milton overlay and oh yes and then that is one thing um Julia that I after and we'll discuss that I think when we get to that um when Josh comes on is that we'll want to schedule um a public forum and have him come and that could be that first week and you know
depending on how soon he can do it and how soon we can post it and and let um everyone know so to come but we'll discuss that later so for now we'll plan for the 13th of March yes okay yep
okay so we're we're going to go a month without a regular scheduled meeting we will meet well we'll have the 24th the 25th the 20th 24th 25th pre meetings and
then um and did we did we uh because 10 Basset Street they're they couldn't get into the zba so that's why they're not until the 13th uh I know later on the agenda we have discussion of the East Milton
overlay zoning as well as MBTA zoning mm and uh we talked about having East Milton zoning submitted for the Maytown meeting so how does um how when does that opportunity to
submit is the warrant closed well I I thought we would discuss that tonight the warrant closed is um we would have to have our article and if we depending on how we feel tonight if we feel ready to submit admit it um the 27th is that is the deadline for article
for for getting the zoning articles in that's when they're asking for them okay um so you think there's adequate time without needing a meeting for a month I think if tonight um we feel comfortable we could submit it now and
at least let Town Council I'd like to let Town Council get as much time to review it as possible um and just see if there's any um recommended revisions but get it to you know at least after the warrant committee after their stretch of meetings not that they're going to want
to look at another article but um at least they'll have it with and they can schedule it their convenience but I thought we' um could decide that if we decide we need that 27th at that you know after Josh comes we certainly could could get get that back so I maybe we
just leave it open for now until we get through tonight and yeah I think that would be good to do that's good yeah yeah and so we'll discuss all the items on here but just I was just tentatively thinking about that in advance um staff update um did Cheyenne
give you anything Julia that you wanted to discuss um only that there's an anr coming for uh 572 Harland Street um he dropped off some plans on Tuesday and an application so um we should put that on
an agenda okay and what was the address Julie 522 Marin yeah 572 and we'll want Cheyenne to review that too um but there is a um a
requirment for opening the uh hearing on an anr upon receipt I I don't recall how many days but that's something to look at it is with cheyen as well before deciding about the meetings if the 13th Would um yeah if that fing an anr I thought it
was 30 days but it's um it can be on any meeting it's not a hearing process you don't have yes okay we'll confirm yeah we'll confirm that because yeah we want to make sure that that's um yeah while we're not required to advertise it's been our practice to because um
residents neighbors have asked us to do that to right so we do need to be mindful of that too so and I did want Cheyenne to look to to look over the anr to make sure that there everything that they need to submit that they have properly submitted so with her being sick she wasn't able to sure to take a
look at that this week but just to make sure that it does um qualify as an anr okay okay um so the next thing we have um is our citizens speak if there's anyone um from the public who would like
to speak on something that's you yep great welcome Joe Joe Karen Grafton a I want to just talk about the East Milton overlay District uh I spoke at the select board
meeting and I heard while you were speaking you're going to meet with the residents which is what I asked to make sure the select board did and I heard that you're going to have this forum and that makes me very happy I won't repeat everything I said at the select board meeting some of you were there um I want
to commend you on what you've done and that's what I tried to say in that meeting I know this has been a long hard process and I'm appreciative of it the the Forum is really for me is the last part of this my neighbors as a Precinct 7 toown meeting member have been asking
me about this um it's important to us and I I do appreciate everything that you're doing the only thing that I'm unsure of and and I'm not looking for a response now is I as in watching this I think there's some sort of three-year look ahead where you can come back and
change without potentially coming back to the citizens and I don't know if that's true but I just I I saw it somewhere in some of the conversations potentially and that just bothered me if that were true and um I know you have a lot of work to
do so thank you very much good it it's not true that we could change the zoning without going back through town meeting if if it were adopted but the one thing that we can change are are the guidelines design guidelines the design guidelines okay maybe maybe that's
where that does not require town meeting yeah okay thank thank you very much and I look forward to the Forum great also yeah and everything will be on the website so you can look at all the different y thank you documents great anyone else yes uh Brian Kelly to meeting member
from freeing 7 11 h at a recent planning board meeting regarding the the nursery nursery special permit renewal there was a complaint regarding a gathering on the property Maggie olfield is a politically active member of the Milton Community
and when I asked if we could hold a PO I feel kind of guilty about this cuz when I asked if we could hold a political meeting in one of her beautiful flowering Gard Gardens she was more than happy to oblige it was a delightful evening we gathered for a part luck for part luuck to eat and strategize and
celebrate reent political victories this was not a dance party it was a it was citizens with concerns about Milton's future I am here because I heard discussion about perhaps requiring a gate or a request to require a gate at the nursery to stop
unpermitted activities I here to speak against any such action as it could very well impede our civil rights to gather it may be possible that the complaintant does not share some of our political views and is trying to stop us from Gathering I don't know if that's true or not someone did call the police and they
came and they left without an incident and we continued our meeting the right to political Gathering is a fundamental aspect of civil rights primarily protected under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution this amendment ensures the freedom of assembly allowing individuals to gather
peacefully for political purposes Express their views and petition the government for a redress a redress of grievances uh from a civil rights context civil rights are designed to protect individuals from discrimination and ensure equal participation in political and social life the right to
assemble is a vital part of these protections allowing citizens to engage in political discourse and advoc advocacy in Massachusetts local zoning laws are governed by chapter 48 of the Massachusetts general laws which give cities and towns the authority to adopt
ordinances and bylaws to regulate land use however these laws generally cannot prohibit political Gatherings outright um and the last thing I'll leave you with is uh according to the ACLU if they have a statement on this the right to assemble and protest
peacefully is among the most important in a Democratic Society and the ACL ACLU has long been a champion in this field we work to ensure that governments do not charge unreasonable cost for the right to protest deny equal rights of expression for viewpoints or speakers
with whom they may not agree or otherwise unlawfully restrict the right to gather and express thank you thank you okay anyone else who would like to speak and we have I don't know who we have on Zoom too but um yes if you'd like to
please come there's two hands raised on zo I just want to make sure we we let people know that they will get to speak as well so field TR Hunning 23 Parkwood Drive um I'm just taking exception to what the uh
recent gentleman uh said I did vote no and I supported um John cohain but the fact is that we do have um subsection n and it's part of the zoning law of
Milton and the thing I'd like to say is that Maggie could have held the gather gathering at her house she has plenty of space Denny could have held the the Gathering at her place she has plenty of space um instead for some reason it was
held behind my house uh and it was not I agree it wasn't a dance party but there were loudspeakers there was chanting it was it it was more than uh and there were some comments last time about well
what if Josh decided to have a party and Cheryl pointed out he can talk to his neighbors the r the retes live um at two 270 Hillside Street they have parties routinely in the summer I have never made one comment comment about the ret
and I don't mind if they do what they want to do but the retes parties are nothing like the Gathering that was held at their nursery and I think it's great for people to have the right to assemble fine but they can do it they can do it
at Maggie's house or they can do it at Denny's house they don't have to do it at what is basically my house um that's all I have to say thank you okay and Julia if you can
um let us know who's Eric Hinson has a okay welcome thank you uh Eric Hinson um throughout the campaign leading up to last year's vote on the NBTA zoning a lot of arguments were made about the
trolley not being Rapid Transit and how it wasn't fair that Milton was classified as a rapid transit Community instead many argued that Milton should be an adjacent community and the chair of the select board reiterated this recently it's not about being anti- housing but about being fair
tonight I'm not here to debate about whether it's a rapid transit or not but after last year's vote the planning board committed to developing two zoning articles for the town one as if Milton were a rapid transit community and one as if it were an adjacent Community
nearly one year later we have Nether and now the planning board is unequivocally stating that it has no plans to produce either while the Nullification of the guidelines by the SJC last month effectively extended the deadline for compliance the planning board and a group of residents are now attempting to
rewrite the law by creating a new category for Milton and for Milton alone a category that would require even less know capacity than an adjacent Community this is contrary to what the planning board publicly promised it would do and what many of the no voters
even said was fair to date the public has not heard the planning board cogently explain why it is ignoring the plain language of the statute that requires hlc to develop regulations for compliance and why it is pursuing the singular path instead of preparing for all potential
outcomes based upon recent conversations and news reports many believe that the planning board is still going to develop plans for both 25% and 10% Alternatives but are unaware of the effort to do and to do only less because the only result
of this action will be even more legal costs and State funding at a time where we are discussing a nearly $10 million override it is only fair for the planning board to explain to Residents whether they voted yes no or not at all why it is not preparing for all possible
outcomes the SJC was clear Milton must comply with the law while the form of that compliance may not be finalized yet Milton residents deserve to be ready to comply with the law whether we're rapid transit or an adjacent Community the planning board has had time to make
progress on these plans and it's time for the board to do what it promised it would do to plan for the future of this town please resume discussions on the district scorecards re-engage the town's consultants and more importantly invite the public to speak sometime other than
a Thursday night at 7:00 p.m. a good start would be to resched the public meetings that the planning board canceled last November please do your part so that we will be ready to comply with the law we know we will have to and that's what's fair for us thank you thank you
and Julia who else do you see have Carri white great okay welcome Carrie go ahead I believe you're still muted Carrie um Carrie's hand is down
okay jul do you see her hand is down now yeah her hand is down we have Douglas Hine the handres okay welcome Doug good evening everybody I'm Doug Hine uh 453 Elliot to meeting member Precinct 2 um I know we've got
the uh action plan deadline due in about 4 and 1/2 hours don't think we're going to make that but that's actually not why I'm I wanted to say a few words today um I I I want to I want to pose a question and this is not rhetorical it's a legitimate question that I want each of
you to kind of kind of hold in your own hearts and that is do you acknowledge the the possibility that at some point in time we may be required to comply with a zoning scheme that that um
categorizes us as a rapid transit community and like I said that's that's not a rhetorical question the reason why I'm asking something I guess so so basic is that I've got about 22 23 years of being an attorney under my belt and it's it's very common for clients of mine to
come into the office and want something to be true so badly that they they simply can't acknowledge the possibility that the outcome they desire is not what's what's going to happen um and and I think there's there's no question that
the the super majority of this board you know feels that the the uh the hlc guidelines are are unfair improper illegal um and I have some real deep reservations about them as well I i' I've been pretty vocal about the fact that I I don't like what's going to
happen to my street um if if we have to have a plan that um complies with the Rapid Transit uh Community designation but but be that as it may if it's the law it's the law what I'm suggesting to you all is that we need to be realistic
about the possibility that uh we're going to be forced to take action at some point in time um er had a lot of the points I wanted to to make about um going forward and drafting a plan that complies with a a rapid transit
designation and also it doesn't limit your ability to uh to draft alternate plans that either have us as an adjacent Community or something entirely different I I certainly don't think it's a bad idea to have different options on the table but here's the reason why I think you should continue to work on a
rapid transit categorization compliant plan to present prevent the worst case scenario and the worst case scenario is the thing that what people I think don't like about the MBTA communities act to begin with loss of control loss of control over our
zoning and and and I'm not saying this to you know use HBO or trying to scare you or anything like that the Commonwealth itself in their pleadings have asked as relief to have the court appoint a special Master to dictate
precisely what our zoning would be if we don't do it ourselves that's the worst case scenario um and it's something that that really should should concern this board in this town and and I and I don't think people are are worried about that possibility that's why I started off by
asking the basic question do you acknowledge that that's a possibility it is and something that grave you have to guard against the only way to do that is to go forward with a rapid transit uh plan that doesn't mean that you have to put it to a voted town meeting uh it
just means that you have to have a plan ready to go because if you don't and if the worst case scenario does happen and is if a uh if a special Master is appointed that person might look to the past to find a compliant plan by that I'm certainly referring to the one that
pass last town meeting but then was ultimately defeated by a townwide vote by a significant margin I think the residents of East Milton should want you to come up with a rapid transit uh plan compliant plan um the the work that's
been done over the past summer uh I think were steps in the right direction and addressed a lot of the fears from that section of town and took a lot of the the newly zoned housing out of East Milton away from the the on-ramp and and
put in different parts throughout Town um but if if you don't go forward with that plan and at least have it ready to go if a special Master gets appointed the folks at East Milton might be looking at you and asking why didn't you have an alternate plan ready to go and
and certainly when doing that you know whether it's drafting that plan or or or alterate plans have Community meetings let the public know about what you're thinking what you're trying to do I think that's the best thing you can possibly do to um to guard against that worst case scenario and and and i' I've
kind of accepted the fact that there's going to be some form of litigation in this case it just I I think there's there's just no two ways about it I think you know I wouldn't be surprised if we get sued in the near term over this emergency guidelines and the action plan I think that would be
kind of a a dumb sup but it because it doesn't get at the real heart of what I think people have a problem with with the uh the regulations but you know those chips are going to fall where they may um guard against that worst case scenario you might not want it to happen you might not think it's going to happen um
I mean I have life insurance I I hope I'm around for a long time but I pay those premiums every year because you got to guard against the worst case scenario and and moving forward drafting a a variety of plans does that so I'd urge you to continue that that hard work that you folks um started thank you
that's great okay all right I think it's time we should move on at this point I think that was everybody um so um next item on the agenda is our East Milton Square uh zoning with mapc
and Julia do we have Josh with us is Josh yep here all right so we can let him invite him in good evening everyone hi Josh welcome back that's good to uh to turn my video on I will need to be a panelist h
okay Julia can you make Josh a [Applause] panelist oh there you are okay great thank you so do you want me to start off yes all right I didn't know if you were all set okay ready sorry welcome um if you'd
like to begin just by introducing yourself again for those who are Josh fella principal planner and land use manager at the metropolitan area planning Council been assisting the town with the East Milton Square zoning great thank you and if you'd like to run through you had sent a memo with some of
the updated changes which were great um if you just want to go through and have any comments that you would like to um make initially sure would you like me to bring that up on the screen sure that would be great okay here's the memo that I
prepared based upon the conversations believe in the last two planning board maybe not the last two consecutively for the board but the last two which I have joined you with um and these were changes to both the commentary memo the zoning language itself and the East
Milton Square design guidelines document um I would say relatively minor comments and changes overall but I think some important conclu like following up on important conversations that we had together um let's see if I'll just touch on some
of the more consequent a fewer um typographical type errors that we don't need to go over again we did add an additional purpose statement at the suggestion of the board to preserve and enhance the historic character of East Milton um we modified some of the
language around the historic preservation Provisions to clarify those and when um the additional review would be required uh if deemed historically important making that clarification in the language
um clarified the streetscape improvements and made a very specific suggestion about similar to the Investments recently near Manning uh community park and the related streetscape improvements there uh made a mention of Goose goose
neck lighting which also shows up in the guidelines relative to exterior illumination of signage and um clarified some items which are in the commentary memo only more about uh
just making sure that the some of the references there were accurate which are cleaned up now and on the so that all occurred within the commentary memo and the the uh zoning language itself in the design guidelines document
we changed a reference to drugstores to reference to pharmacies and then modified the date ranges to correspond with the 19 40 date cut off to uh deem a property historically uh significant to
further uh to uh trigger further review and uh therefore reorganized the date ranges of the percentages of buildings which were built within the different ranges to also hit 1940 so that that can be seen more easily great good that was a excellent
summary did anyone have questions on any of these changes that were that were made Josh I just had one question if you could could you pull up the memorandum uh document um in on page 16
um and I don't know whether this was during the change but um the first sentence uh isn't complete and then it I think it could be um let's see at least in the the draft
that I have page 16 at the bottom um it would be under at the very bottom under maximum Building height below the looking forward quote it begins with if the proposed zoning as currently
[Music] recommended see yes so if the then what and I was thinking you could actually take out the take add the bottom sentence and then you could say mapc recom mends that the town consider
increasing so you could just yeah or or I might suggest in that first sentence adding um additional modifications uh might warrant exploration or something to that that's great that's is that acceptable to so
can you show where that would go again um it's right here right so that that would read [Music] um if the proposed zoning as currently
recommended is not successful in attracting future development then future zoning expl sorry I said it better the first time exploration of future zoning modifications may be
warranted that's I think that's excellent so I like the change now is that an example of something that would not have to go to town meeting this is the com this is the commentary so it's it's not the language of the zoning this is just in the commentary that I
think it would be on the website on the town website but it wouldn't be in the body of the Z Z yeah but just to be clear though what what that sentence is suggesting would be something that would go to town meeting yes good enough thank you MH
great Josh I just have one question and it's it just kind of surprised me um it it read in one of the um one of the changes that you made that I think it's a change that you made that 17% of the of the parcels have no structure is that right 177% have no
structure uh just struck me that there were that many Parcels that yeah I was too I was surprised yeah I think the um the parcel lines may not exactly correspond to how people perceive propert like whole properties I think
there might be some portions of a a property May for example be split into two where the parking lot for example is actually technically a separate parcel okay which adds to that percentage okay okay yeah in that respect that's a bit misleading uh but maybe my interpretation
was incorrect but thanks so Josh then um not because it not to avoid being redundant this last sentence then says then mapc recommends that the town increase um which I would like to say
consider increasing um because I don't think it's absolute we would con we would consider it um but is that redundant for your to the first sentence mapc
recommend I think or just mapc recommends it taking then I guess it's the then starting the sentence seems awkward I don't okay yeah I can cllean that it I do like leaving the first sentence more General because we we offer some
suggestions but there might be other things you know that the town might consider right in the future that are not listed here M recommends that the town consider increasing would would
then MC would then recommend MPC would then recommend cuz it's reactive to the okay yeah so considering I'm me trouble with the comment feature here that's right okay yeah consider yeah that's
um okay because sometimes those reports come back or those comments come back and it didn't capture well he's got it just as a note in the side yeah yeah I've got I've got them here so yes I sorry I'm in a PDF right now not the
word document so it's I'm I can't live edit but got it okay but I've got I've got them all as comments here okay what we just talked about so I thought those any any other comments from the board on
anything I thought those were great all those the changes that were made were good um the only thing I I'm still struggling with the map so and and honestly I don't know that we have to make a final decision on the map um
before we do a community Forum we might want to get in public input from the community and again it's I I'm fine with the post office because I do think it has some productive um the underly zoning would always still be there which is commercial it would
just be um there would be triggers for a historic so I um I did feel better about that what I what I did think that we really should think carefully about is the fruit Center is on it's a residentially zoned parcel and it's if
you look at the map it's the biggest parcel which could have the greatest impact to the residential neighbors buffering it so I I would think because I mean the map would um it would be smaller it
would fall mostly along the Granite Avenue in Adam Street but by removing that it would give us um just additional site plan uh approval and um you know if if was a significant
change that I think we would have the opportunity to weigh in if we did this by right um we're looking at we're automatically allowing a height you know a certain amount of height a certain amount of um I think one thing
that we can see through some of the applications that have come before us which is businesses that have been operating or a business use has been operating on a property for decades and decades and decades and any and but yet
the underlying zoning is not business and so any change is risky and therefore it limits the opportunity for the property and and it really um I think puts the the use at
risk so having a clear path is is much better for everyone I think for the business owner for the neighbors and for the planning board because having to what decide whether it jumps to zba or not or whether it is permits
are triggered here or there um when we have these uses that are you know so long business that the there's it's just not productive to have residential zoning underlying it so if
we're going to try and move our zoning forward it seems to me we should we should tackle that we shouldn't um we shouldn't leave it out I think we put the protection in site plan approval um that allows us to
guide um and this would have site plan approval even under as of right and I think you know we all spoke quite a bit at the war committee about why we felt it was really important to keep that in right right so I you know I that's to me
the strikes the balance you know of what you're talking about in terms of being concerned about a process I think that site plan approval gives us a process process but it also gives us a more predictable um path MH so yeah it's just something to consider
I think Jimmy you had brought up that I think you were the one who brought up but really torn on this one because we're now changing the rules for what 20 a Butters and then Beyond in that neighborhood and by right is by right and I think that's where the advantage
will be when we have a public forum um and we we get to hear from the East Milton residents I would like to you know not necessarily make the decision tonight but I do think it's an important direction that we that we want to get public input on
especially one thing I also neighborhood sorry just one other thing is that when um the Falcone were looking at their property on basid street they and there was a lot of um
angst in amongst the community residents came to the planning board and said give us an overlay give us um a clear path so that we don't have to negotiate each property and uh we're
not doing that if we selectively take some properties out so that's just another thing that um I think we should consider yeah and also we need to consider we're also undergoing an economic development
plan um at some point and I think whatever sort of we decide on this business in this residential district would set a precedent for other
businesses in other residential neighborhoods so I would proceed with some caution um because there are a lot of other businesses mine
included um that are in residential neighborhoods and I really would Advocate if we do for this one we would have to do for all um so it is beyond this conversation
I think is beyond just East Milton we have other um not just my business but other businesses in residential neighborhoods you know you look down on K canav A
Franny's Corner um so there's a lot of you know down on Brook Road at Milton Food Mart where we did pass some zoning in the past few years and nothing's happened there but that's another Corner as well as a 7-Eleven on Route 28
so um if that's the road we want to go down then I think that we have to look at townwide we've been studying oh yeah Josh go ahead but I just wanted to put in one add one detail to the
conversation right there um that may differentiate this parcel relative to some other uh business properties in a residential Zone this the property today is technically a split zoned property so it does have a portion of its um front
near near Granite have um Corners which are in the business district so it is both business and residentially Zone today right yep that's true that's helpful and I think we in all of this we'll we'll just we'll really we'll need to listen to the public and and want to
hear um how how folks feel about it but I agree with Cheryl what you're saying you know this is one of our the goals that we're trying to um achieve is to offer opportunities that prevent 40b projects so so um that's having a more
predictable path provides opportunity for property owners that they don't have now and that's I think something people need to recognize is one of the challenges that we have we have no offense to our applicant coming up but
we get Dober protected uses and we get 40b on properties that were something else besides single family when there's no other alter alternative for them than the single family so we have to recognize that that's a that's that's been an issue and we should address that
issue um and it's like I said um it's not I mean some might wonder why we have had at least three daycare centers reviewed since I've been on the board at least three and uh we we haven't had too
many mixed use developments you know we we haven't had too many business we've had some minor modifications but our business districts have changed very little in decades and decades and decades and we have to recognize it's our regulatory environment that's
causing that in large part well um there there's different Pro yeah we will go there but that I just wanted to put Ain that because I didn't know if if we wanted to express any opinion my feeling is I'd like to wait and and
through the forums and and public hearings but do we are we if we pl keep it in I think we keep it in because if we plan to submit we need a map as we learned recently right if we've missed the maps then we're not and it we wouldn't be adding more we would be
taking it you know during the process so okay um so Josh continue if you want to highlight anything else topic wise I think that was it I think the the math was um um we have discussed
previously and it sounds like the the board is comfortable enough perhaps to as you just discussed take it for uh further discussion final discussion with the community and if if you know how that depending on how that conversation
goes we can make some revisions um but um proceeding with I would say that you if if the desire is to submit a package for to get it uh in line with the war I think you have a package which is ready to do so and then can be subject to
further final adjustments I would I would agree um should we look at meeting dates now for um a possible Forum um we would have to post it um so we need at
least two paper uh news Cycles um so Julia where would it be what would be the sort of the earliest time frame that we could host um a public forum um well I have to go into the
paper the Tuesday before Moon before the paper comes out so um looking at the calendar you could we that it posted on this coming Tuesday the 18th
um it could go in the paper on the 20th and on the 7th and then we could have um a forum on the 6th youres okay does the six work for people Josh does that work for you March 6 March 6th I think we had tentatively
talked about the sixth as I put I think I put a hold on it so that works for me I had another I do have another evening Forum on the sixth unfor okay all right what about the
fifth would the fifth work the fifth uh did that week is tough the fifth does not work for me as well okay um and you're saying that
whole week because we really I think you would prefer to go to the following week then with that the 10th 11th 12th is that is that too late for the warrant um Cheryl and I have something on the 12th meeting on
the 12th but the 10th or the 11th I I have um that's one this the Milton Market places is at the zba so I don't know if that's the best time because people might be tuning in who would be
interested in both so maybe the 11th the 11th the DBA is on the 10th yeah right zba is on the 10th we could meet on the so we could meet on the 11th would that that work Josh for you that would work I believe let me just
see I'm going to check my colleague's calendar so I can have a and that's before yes um yeah Tuesday March 11th that looks like it would work okay great let's let's plan on doing the Forum on the
11th um did we do it at 6 a little bit earlier I think it depends which room it's in like if you do the library probably want to be at 6:30 if you do the we were I think we wanted to do it back at the um at the Arts Center CER the art center right okay so we
definitely we need to check their availability yeah all right why don't we do that Julia if can you tomorrow um morning if you have a chance check the availability at the Milton Arts Center sure and then send an email confirming with Josh and the board sure yeah I'm
sorry we're shoting for 6:30 or 7 at the Center um seven would probably be better for people to get home from work um so 7 7 p.m. okay and would your um second
choice be the library I think so that the library would be the second choice yeah yeah okay that would be good great Josh you did a wonderful job with that last last time
so that'll be great to have you have you back for that does the board have any suggestions or preferences about the format of that meeting a presentation I imagine but do you have a um more of an openhouse or Q&A or what do you think the community might best benefit from in
terms of f um I kind of like the same as last time with the survey and people were able to well at at this point though we're further along in the process so our plan to present and we will have already submitted it to the warrant
committee oh just for review we you know just to start looking at Council guess I guess the question is what um the the goal of it is just to get feedback and allow for some
revisions depending on the feedback right I think one thing I would suggest if if if you think about the people who went to the for the last forum and didn't tune in to the planning board meeting since then is kind of bring them back up to speed how you took the feedback and you adjusted the zone or
you drafted the zoning based on that feedback based on all the content that you um and the comments that you received because that's what you told us right some time ago and then we've reviewed it a couple of times so I think it's just bring them along bring people
along to how where we are today from there and I think we set the table that um we've been at this a long time and we've taken a lot of feedback and we we have some opportunity for some
additional comment but we hope that they agree that it's ready to go to a vote and so maybe we can send this to um the East Milton neighborhood association and have them distribute it especially with
all the commentary so they understand how how we got to I would also say to the Chamber of Commerce because remember these are most of these property owners are business Property Owners uh not residential property owners so um they have as in my mind they should have as
much of a say as anyone yeah and then maybe Josh we could run through the you know the design guidelines because I think that you know just some pictures always help people you know and you did a great job you know putting together some examples um you know just sort of
highlighting um things not going in detail so one thing I was might suggest too uh because a lot of people may not be familiar with how the process works when you when we say something's as of right on a three story um let's just talk about what that looks like once this passes you know somebody wants to
come in and they want to do an an application for one of these properties you know what does you know what does this zoning tell them and then what's the process that they uh would follow in submitting a project and how there's opportunity for Community feedback
during that application process so you know it can be very technical and we're used to looking at zoning language but for most people it's um I think you we want to explain what it does for them what's beneficial like I said a few minutes ago about setting
um a process that's more predictable and people's comments have already been put into this zoning and so those would stay they don't have to renegotiate app all of those things on any application that comes in I think those are the kinds of things that are important to communicate
I think um I'm sorry to um support what your thoughts are this type of language and and there's a there's a lot that's been prepared here it's overwhelming for someone who's just picking it up to look at it and and trying to trying to
ascertain whether they're supportive or whether they have questions I think what you're describing is probably how a lot of people will be challenged by this but if Josh could do some examples let's say for example you know and Josh create three or four examples of different
projects that might you know this might be applicable for and and let people understand whatever those particular projects might be how it would work you know what I mean it's it would I think it would be helpful for people because an awful lot of people it's there's a lot of information here that's just not
part this is part of your language every single day you know but it's not not everybody has your professional experience and background I think it'd be really helpful what do you think about that Josh I don't I don't think Sean's asking you to design projects not at all not at all no Josh but but you
know for example say you know if a if an applicant that wanted to uh propose this type of a project and describe something and um and and just you know create a few of those scenarios that residents could hear you explain um and they'd be
able to recognize how how this overlay would allow projects to be built and maybe take um like the the Milton Marketplace as an example that's the largest piece in this puzzle Andor
the Citizens Bank on granite AV and use that footprint and plop on a visual like a worst case scenario visual so people could see what be there he has to make some program assumptions and design
assumptions I think one thing you could do is take it and diagram out where the setbacks would be what the building envelope could be Josh maybe what the parking requirement would be if you maxed you you reached the maximum floor area that you could build something like
that I think you started doing that at one point where you when you were showing us um sander Bank yes exactly I think I think opening up with the background and context that you've written sort of going back to the
beginning of the and telling the story about how how we got to where we are right now um and some of that history and then I think your commentary you could almost pull this up and go through your commentary and read from those sections because I think those are really really
helpful um and maybe highlight some of those touch on you know Building height what's in the zoning rather than going through just the zoning which is strictly you know it is um I think I think the important thing for people to understand
it it's allows a mixed use it requires a portion of first floor commercial it allows a total of three stories um under site plane approval which is the as of right piece of it um lay out with the parking requirements are but then I also would say say lay
out what the challenges are as you did you know in the commentary and lay out what we hope to you know accomplish with it you know that's that's really the important part and there's a lot of Protections in here for East Milton so we want to let them know historic character you know what all the
goals are and sort of the the protections um so if I don't know if like an hour dedicated to that but I would like to allow I want to hear from East Milton if we can at that time and allow them you know maybe the first hour we we present an overview and then open
it up for questions for the residents so one thing um just thinking about having watched and heard select board meetings recently and discussion of an override and hearing people comment about um our structural deficit and lack of
commercial tax revenue uh one thing you can think about is kind of what kind of Economic Opportunity might this unlock in East Milton I think that was one of the early drivers of this too is that our business districts aren't contributing a lot to the overall revenue of the
town so in part because our zoning really doesn't has so many restrictions it's pretty difficult to to redevelop any of the properties currently so I don't you know how Josh you did a buildout analysis in Milton village where we kind
of estimated how many how much commercial space and how many units might um be yielded if you know certain percentage of the property did change over is that a complicated or timec
consuming thing to do at this juncture or is there something that could give us some estimate of what the opportunity this zoning brings from
an economic development point of view they usually they typically are a bit complicated and and quite dependent on um the assumptions that we make in terms of development program and approach to the various properties um it's it's unclear whether or not that
effort would be helpful because it's not as I think we've discussed this at length in other circumstances um but the the difficulty always with buildout analysis analyses
is that it compresses what is typically an incremental and long Redevelopment and reinvestment process in a district to a single number and it and it gives the impression that that type of change will happen at overnight or with the
flip of a switch or the approval of zoning and that that is not in fact how real estate reinvestment and Redevelopment works it it will take um years if not decades for a a substantial buildout and reinvestment to occur even
with the the zoning changes that were com I think we can talk about it that but what about like if you are going to pick like two or three properties like Sean suggested and you would at least do the math to determine what that new development program might be then we
could look at what that t that might generate from tax revenue as compared to what's generated now and just use one example or two or three examples the you know so the concern that I have with that is similar to the concern with with
um rg's analysis with NBTA zoning was just this is for mixed use and um they they assume a a fewer amount of kids in our school system so that's what I'm a little bit hesitant I you know I've
listened to conversations about um new growth in the town and even when I talk to the assessor they're always talking about oh this is New Growth but they never really project new expenses um so there's always a a tradeoff um for New
Growth so that's why I'm I'm a little bit so I like to see the revenue um part of it coming in um but we have to also be realistic since we are creating the opportunity for new housing more housing
um there just would be more expenses too all right so maybe that's something that we can talk about without quantifying maybe yeah okay and I think the language that's in here is good talking that Josh has written on opportunities um in that
area so great so so I think I'm comfortable tonight advancing the article for the Maytown meeting youone make a motion motion I'll make a motion to submit the um East Milton mixed use overlay soning did we
call it a PUD by the way Josh on this one no no we did not okay so the East Milton U mixed use overlay zoning uh for consideration um for Town meet the May
town meeting there second a second okay all in favor I just can I just amend that sorry with the map that's attached yeah which would have with it yeah you amending yeah yeah second the amendment
okay okay in favor I great so Julia we can send maybe um I mean maybe we wait just touch base but let um we'll let the select board know this is this is going to be coming I know they were already thinking about
Maytown meeting and um what was going to be what articles and think what things would come forth so we'll we'll connect on that so can I just say to Josh too Josh thank you it's been a journey um the it feels like a
culmination of many many years of work and um and you brought us in this last leg of it picked up the last leg so thank you you've done an excellent job yeah I'm really grateful so thank you all for your your labors in
it and effort and dedication to it and uh we hope that the community receives it well at that final form and we believe it has very been very responsive to the community's requests and needs great great thanks very much Josh thank you have mhm nice evening and we'll confirm with you um as soon as we hear
the Milton Art Center or what the location would be fantastic thank you great thanks Josh great um all right so next um we have the 227 pleasantry uh Pine Hills
Garden as built plan we had a few things to come in today but Maran if you want to come and join us and um and can I just say something oh yes sorry um so I just wanted um to let you know that I spoke with the state ethics commission
today regarding the potential of an appearance of a conflict of interest because my business has hired attorney mcgetrick and has hired the engineer Delle Burke who is involved in this um
agenda item ethics suggested I file a written disclosure and I did that today with the Town Clerk and I'm just publicly stating that and they said because I do not have any financial interest in this um agenda item now that
I'm able to participate in this discussion thank you great thank you and welcome here and still have you good evening everyone good evening so I'm just here tonight to talk to you about an as built plan for 227 Pleasant Street which is Pine
Gardens development it's a small development with pretty big houses um it's on a little Hill off Pleasant Street and it's taken several years to be completed but all of the houses have been constructed mostly they were sold the Lots were sold and then the houses were constructed by the de developer
with the um new owner and um each house has an occupancy permit and is occupied um we did finally have toel Burke finish and as built certified plan the plan the sill plan shows the lot layout shows where the roadway is shows where the
utilities are the drainage systems um it's not all of the pages of the plan for the um subdivision but it's important and and one other thing that had to be done with this sville plan was the the um the scale had to be changed
for this plan because DPW didn't like the scale they used in the original plan and they did do that um so Meredith very appropriately asked me I think of today um or I asked her whether you wanted large copies of the plan if you approve the plan then I will order from D Cel
Burke a myar and then you will have to sign that myar and I think right now where you don't have a regular um you only have an assistant planner I think maybe the board members are going to have to sign it but you can do that you know as you're able to so um the question from um Meredith though was you
have a letter from DPW or a letter from the from the U building department you know whatever it is that you need at this point and I have to admit I wasn't sure sure but then we sent out inquiries so um I have to say I really appreciate the response to immediately today
because W Walter White responded he's our interim one of our interim building Commissioners he's off today but nevertheless he did respond and indicated that yes each house has an occupancy permit and he personally was the one who did the inspections so as far as the building department is
concerned this development is done from a building code um and occupancy permit standpoint then the next question was to the DPW and it's kind of a town engineer DPW question and right now we have director of no Town engineer but
she was the town engineer so again she was very nice to respond because she's out she's ill but she nevertheless did respond she provided a letter to the board and if you haven't had a chance to look at it I can read it to you it's one page is one page so um and she also said
that she's looking for a grant of easement which is correct there um this is a private road and like most of these developments these days it's private road Private drainage structures private septic sewer line but the town does not
do private water lines they want to control the entire water system so uh they need to be able to get in they had to approve the water line was installed by the contractor but they need to be able to get in later to do maintenance and they also have to we also have to be able to maintain the fire hydrant um and
the and um sometimes there's emergency access required so I what I did was to take the um grant abasement that I had done for went with Farm several years ago it's a bigger development but the same type of private and not private
infrastructure um and I sent that a draft um back to Marina to review she probably she may not have reviewed it yet because we kind of crossed I sent the easement she sent the letter saying I'm going to be looking for that I also sent her a copy of the Declaration of trust because the Declaration of trust
explains in detail um that all the things Marina Express concern about here are private so the drainage system is private and all parts of the drainage system the uh sewer lines are private the road is private the light is private
those all have to be maintained by these five home owners and if we do get when we do get an asil plan approved um i' i' like to I'd like to record this grant of easements before this happens but the Home Owners Association is supposed to
take over management and then they will become responsible for example for plowing so the developer is still doing the plowing so of course he would really like to be able to hand it over um but it's you know you have to the grant of e usually has to be reviewed by Town Council then it comes back to the Town
Administrator and that at the next available meeting I believe they still do it this way the members of the select board have to approve it and then they sign it but what I like to do is to have a a document ready for Signature so what if Town council's approved it then we
provide that document they sign it at their meeting then I could take it and record it because I'll be able to get the um the grantor signature ahead of time so um it it appears to me that that these um sort of supporting
elements are complete and I managed to get a response surprisingly the same day that you asked um the only question really for me at least is on the plan itself do you have any questions and do you have that so that you can look at it on your laptop or sorry that I didn't I
I asked my original inquiry was you want to share it no that's okay unless I will if you have a question so um so regarding easement um is that reflected on the plan no the easement is um
recorded at the Reg Deeds um but it typically would not be on no I don't the plan that well I could ask them to put I actually I don't have it recorded yet that's the problem if I get it recorded and maybe that would
make sense let me make a note of that I can have the engineer put a note on the plan that would be I I think that's help gr of each easement just whoever's looking at that that just for the water though not for the gas or the SE well it it's to the recorded Grant of easement
and then this is the grant abasement which I'm supposed to pass out to you but I didn't so that you just so you can see what it says this is just a draft has been approved there are two copies and one more I have one here um yeah I this when
someone looks at the development plan and they see the note about the grant of easement they'll see the recording reference they look it up they read it they know if they're buying from one of these first buyers they know what the easement is and then
um there are you know the grant eement actually references a number of other documents like the subdivision plan like the sub subdivision control approval decision so once you read the grant abasement then you go you're LED back to other documents that affect this Dev
that's why it's important I think that it's you're right reflected just yeah and I think selling a house on that lot you know and you you wouldn't know about the easen and then you'd have to go try to track it and find it so so if if you're satisfied generally with the um
as built plan um I would not be returning with a myar until I have the engineer put that note on and it might take a little while because I want to wait until I have a recording reference that would be great um so I hope that the developer will be understanding of that but we just have to do it that
way um yeah but it sounds like everything's just great shape and ready to and it's a great glad that all the homes are sold and it's a yeah a good project there were also it just it referenced in just the letter um along
with minor updates and adjustments to the submitted asilt plan do you know what those minor updates were let's see to the last second to last paragraph last sentence and is that anything that should also be reflected in the plan
well I can tell you that until the minor updates and adjustments are explained and put on the plan plan you're not going to get an sill you you're not going to get a myar back to sign so I just make a note you know you should expect to see it but it won't be probably for several weeks um no I don't
know what that is because I I did see I did see if I didn't want to call Arena at home since she's not feeling well but I will be talking to her to find out what that is but I'm also assuming that um Kyle oh no not Kyle Harish I think
the engineer called her you know to check on the status of this December plan yeah from the engineering department um I think I think they spoke directly to Marina but they could have been talking to Sky as well so we will find out and you're right there's I'll make it just a little check didn't we
get a letter from Sky yeah well it was the same thing it was just another email that I just wanted to forward any correspondence I had um so the question is the plan that you're looking at is still subject to minor adjustments so what I will tell
you I will do is once those adjustments are on it then we have to get another signature anyway um so I'll send it for information purposes to all of you and that will be before I come back to to get the signature on the myar and before
I put the note with the um Grant of yeah okay let me just see if there's anything else that I didn't notice um everything else looked good yeah the notes about what remains privately owned um those are good comments to make those are
reflected in the Declaration of trust and the grant abasement only allows the town to go in and maintain what it owns and the only thing it owns is the water line basically and the fire hydrant okay that's great so um I don't know
whether yeah do you I'd rather not so are you willing to take a vote that you're satisfied with the es Bill plan subject to the Minor Adjustments that are to be made and that I don't have to come back for another vote I'm I'm fine with that I would be fine with that too
okay everyone okay that okay so the the actual vote is to accept the ASB built plan and that would be subject to the inclusion of the easement language and
the Minor Adjustments referenced in in the letter from Marina Fernandez right so that's my motion second all any discussion NOP okay all in favor I great thank you very much
thank you thank you I also I'll just review the notes in here and if I think there should be more notes relating to the pools or anything like that right it'll all be in there okay great too small for me to read right now but I make sure that so thank you very much thanks for meeting with me tonight and I
have some I have to wait forward now so that's helpful perfect thank you thank [Applause] you okay so on our agenda next welcome we have um our public hearing
continued on site plan approval for zero Blue Hill AB parcel B 7-5 continuing from January 23rd and welcome if you just want to introduce yourself again for the public that's great yeah absolutely Chris fazin in with Viking development
um here about Milton Avenue zero Blue Hill yeah um I'll happily share my screen if Julia wants to promote me um and then all of our Consultants are on the zoom link should be civil architectural and
traffic great Julia can yeah it looks like she got she's getting me one okay good and again thank you for submitting your materials I know in advance yeah appreciate appreciate that you've been great we've all been complimenting you
for just um how it's has been helpful okay so is that loads there we go last time the conclusion of our meeting there was a comment that we were
getting close and that got me excited um so we went back and we looked at some of the comments and takeaways looked at the details and it does feel like we are getting to those last little things so I'm excit exced about that um with that I'll say that I I would like to set a goal for myself and maybe for all of us
to maybe look at maybe a a motion for an approval on this by the end with discussions of the the last comment and any remaining comments um if if conditions need to be discussed that's that's completely okay and I'd be willing to have those conversations um
just looking back at all of this we started in August we started with preapp and neighborhood meeting and neighbors attended the first meeting and and now we're here you know it's been 6 months of back and forth coordination uh you know incorporating neighbor comments and really think we've
developed a a plan here Child Care Facility I understand it's in the ra District but you know it meets a lot of the regulations I I think it's a a permissible project um three meetings ago we went through a
full redesign shrunk our building down added additional buffer space to a Butters um increased our natural buffer to the right of way moved our detention system underground um removed a significant amount of retaining wall limited disturbance earthw quantities tree
removals we've now been through two peer review or a full peer review two traffic counts um we've been through three reviews of a storm water peer review we're nearly complete on that um we've looked at building exterior we looked at retaining wall materials plant layouts
those materials snow storage location parking quantities I think you guys get the hint um I understand and this was a point I wanted to make to you guys I think it was the last meeting or maybe the meeting before you guys made it clear you have a responsibility to the community to make sure everything's well
planned sustainable beneficial to them so I I think that that's where our cooperation has been uh trying to make sure you guys are able to do that while keeping in mind you know our our brand our prototype trying to you know keep what the gardener school is um so I'll
run through the comments and takeaways Page by Page plan by plan show you exactly where everything was added um feel free to ask any questions at that point we just kind of run through it that way so um Jim you mentioned it right when we walked in the first one is the window um muttons we we had submitted
this exhibit here as well as an updated um elevation showing that revised design it will go on all four sides of the building know if you guys had a chance to look at it have any questions um I think it was a good Improvement um well
I have a just and and Jim and I because I always agree with you that I'm always looking to do more of a um a classic look with more Mion um in this case because there are so many windows and they're so tall the biggest thing I look for in a
in a building is consistency of some kind and it's almost like you have two different styles going on which um to me it it doesn't look like it doesn't feel like a cohesive look and when I
actually because I it was it was nice to see this and I'm glad this is Jim was his his suggestion is that I think if you to keep it uniform if you went with the the 4 over4 versus the the um the
original I think that it might look really busy with all of that on all of the windows so I I think I'm actually in favor of what they originally had as as window mullions um I think it goes with
the architecture but because I'm normally always that's more of the look I like but because there's so many if there weren't so many windows and I drove by the Goddard school today and you know they do um they have like an 8 over one like they do but it's broken up
and they don't have nearly as many windows and they're and they're shorter and wider um with this I feel like it could get really busy to do the do four over four on all of them so and I want to hear from the the rest of the others
obviously but I I think I like originally seems a little more simple and a little bit more appropriate maybe with the style of architecture but I would open it up to everybody's thoughts on that do you have
can you easily bring up the original to compare yes let's see here but I like that we're looking it both so that's I think it's now the giess is what meeting did
we do architecture it was last meeting I think it was last meeting yeah so yeah so it was really we've had it this way for a while in terms of the the one floor having it so this
is actually from two meetings ago was two meetings yeah it was when the architect was I think he was he quite ill yeah so that was before see what what I can't figure
that's what we have now this is from December this is from our January meeting so the difference is these windows here down in this in this lower level um that's what had
changed right we've got six on the bottom eight on the top six long here so so we had made this inset portion uniform and then made the the middle one thicker to give that double hung look so I I think to so that was
what yeah I think Jim's original question was more about making them look more like a double hung window that's kind of what drove us to this change today so that that middle one we made thicker and then a uniform normally you know there's those what would be three on the first floor here and then the
doors we had added them if I can find now where the original yeah so I would say that given that you have window types that aren't double hung
um thickening or widening that Center m to me makes it a diff maybe too different than the other windows so the where they're all have
the same thickness then you then having a different pattern in them seems to make um more sense because then if you make it look like a double hung then you begin to question why they all aren't double hungs I think so
um I think the way it was previously I I agree with with Meredith that um would be my preference you know I also uh am given that I'm an architect you
know the architect has his vision and design here and um he's not here to see to ask what his preference is but um he I think he is on Zoom he can weigh in okay you like what he designed
Chris was was this the or I'm sorry Maggie yeah was this the original was this the first uh elevation presented no so I feel like I have remember I can go back further just just I guess for the sake
of seeing what is started yeah I almost like what I feel likeone you like to have options you like to see the options right so if I share this one with you guys Josh has his hand raised
I think your architect might have his hand raised can everyone hear me does seem that his window type was aligned with his siding you know he he had a different design where he has vertical siding mhm Josh would you like to add something can you hear me yes now we can
hear you all right wonderful um yeah so going back to kind of the design on what would be those double hug windows so the way we created it and still used the same system we have now for the best performance is that we are
essentially using a traditional Mion as The Wider section so it would actually match the outside of the framing those internal ones are actually much much thinner um so it it is essentially a different character than than what you
would see typically um I would agree that I think doing the two separate designs how we are now is is a little busy I would prefer to stick with one idea over the other um I don't know at this point that I'm dead set on either
one if we enjoy the the double hung book we can certainly do that across the board um but I agree I think as a whole it would it would make more sense to keep continuity throughout all the windows what what was the difference in what your very original plan was and
what we're looking at very original so the original was twice the size single story if that's what we're referring to um but the windows were essentially um the ones that are on the
towers on the right and left so the that's what I remember can we try to find that just to you want the sing the single story one it would have to be the single story but and that's fine I was just going back to when we transitioned to the two story
so four Prim Elations see Josh while while Chris is looking at that um I just want to I want to make sure I understand what you said um are you saying that for all the windows you
would prefer same um same window everywhere in a sense yes so to create a little bit of uh proportion to this building we do have different sizes in general so the the lower story is
slightly smaller just because of the floor to floor ratio and when you're standing there they do not need to be as big to feel equal so the the second story is actually larger but I think character-wise it would make more sense to do the same design on both sizes
whether that's the the double hung or what you're seeing here with the uh the kind of lower and upper divider yeah and and and and that also would be regardless of what the side style and material is Right same window no matter what yeah true yeah what's the
overall length of the building from from far right corner to far left corner let me see I can pull it up it's it's not very long I mean it's I mean it's it's a relatively small building 132 ft
132 and I think 70 68 ft deep yeah correction it is 132 by 68 if you think about 132 ft relative to let's just say an average home that's what I'm thinking it's a lot wider than an average longer or wider than an
average home yeah so having these things where you're breaking down the scale into these what is it like H five volumes a little bit um and changing the material and the color and the and the um so so
for but still a you know a colonial could be 30 right the the facade about 30 ft 32 34 something like that yeah yeah [Music] mhm so you were saying I I think
interrupted your train of thought right um yeah for me the uh um the windows um I prefer see to see continuity in style than differentiation
in style on the Windows because there's not a lot of three-dimensional variation here it's not like it's 20 30 ft where you have kind of a different Wing you really have some articulation of a rectangle rectangular box and so
um whether it's if you look at that right now that window is basically the same size right right to middle and left and yet you know the the Mion pattern is different so the question then becomes
why um and to me sometimes if I'm looking I'd say okay I might do that if I had ganged the windows together or if I had a wider window but I have the same opening size and now I have a different you know subdivision within it it it it doesn't seem to me to have the logic
that I might expect and I'm not trying to be critical of Josh here but I think he's saying he he liked the idea of continuity and I would say I agree with him on that I do too I agree with you as well I I think and and you know part I mean the reason I asked the question about the length of the building is it
it kind of leads into the there's not there's not a lot of Distinction here it's not a big it's not a very very large building and and I prefer continuity um you know throughout regardless of regardless of um you know
the difference in size from top to bottom or regardless of the of the different siding materials I I think continuity would be preferred and and especi I agree and especially since the siding you already
have a difference in um sighting so you have the the um horizontal gray and then the middle again I don't have the the language of an architect uh but then you have the vertical in the middle and then
at the top you have the shingle side so that's three you know it's still sort of the same in planting you plant in numbers so there's you have three different elements there with the siding
three different sidings so then I do think you need a something that ties those three elements together so I think I like the continuity yeah and and since we're
talking about continuity and we're talking about Windows I happen to prefer the 4 over4 um I think it has a Schoolhouse kind of theme to it for me anyway but i'm maybe a little bit of a too much of a traditionalist in that respect and uh um
but that's my preference so I I would I would view continuity as a as a desirable aesthetic but I could be open minded in terms of style does gner have a position so my thought there would be looking at everything looking at the
doors I think the doors would be hard to get that kind of two short one long in the middle layout I think we could go with that four over four look I guess the doors would be you know three six squares but it would look the same so I
think we should make those n ones four four over four and make it consistent that way I think that would be nice okay just to switch out those windows just to be consistent agreed absolutely I agree as well um which Windows who has the cursor
I do uh so can you just drag the cursor to where so these these would be 4 over4 and then uh these would become 4 over4 and these would become 4 over4 and that would make you consistent across the whole thing okay and and in regard to the entry the entry stays as it is the
this here the well the double doors the side lights the yeah so this could become the two side ones could become 4 over four and then the door we're leaving the door as it is just because of signage hours of operation addressing it gets really busy how do you guys all feel do you
yeah I love that F and then the other doors remain six light correct I wouldn't change I like that I wouldn't either the light above the top it kind of gives the eight um and then we would carry that across all all sides so those these would get them as well four over four correct what do you think
Cheryl yeah I think that's a good move okay cool yeah if we could just do we can do that that revision you can send it out we can give you feedback because that was yeah I mean I think if we're honestly I think if if if we're good otherwise tonight I think we could just have those follow yeah those
revised elevations follow agree yeah closure actually um I would yeah that's because we can't accept documents after we close the public hearing so isn't that right Maran yeah
um well you know we can have you I think um come in by Zoom you know like if we say that the last remaining document that we have to bring in is a revised elevation yeah and and if there's things
like this a hearing I don't know if I could get it next week it sounds like your schedule is crazy but that's a simple change that I could have to you week um so I'm okay I just I can't I'd like to work towards not having to wait till a month from now
right to finalize this yeah and I I think if this is the last remaining document that would need to come in then I I would think we could do that on the 20th next week m is there a situation where you could write a condition on all windows being 4 over4 or something like
that or um uh prior to building permit issuance something we also we do have I just not to I think I'm going to say the same thing as you the storm water oh oh no no what we have a meeting next Thursday and yeah and if you guys are
willing to consider that for us that's fine I just would you okay with that so I just wanted to because it sounds like the storm water had some revisions but did that get peer reviewed I it sounds like we received comments this morning Bowlers on they can speak to the the
minor items that are left that is one of those items where we would need to have that as the maybe a suggestion Chris why don't we get through everything and then we talk about we have all of our issues and we we want to try to get you yeah I appreciate you guys working with us can
I ask a question while we're on that elevation at the top of it looks like at the top of your Towers what is that round element can you can you blow that up what's what's your intention there yeah so it's uh it would be our our logo
uh Medallion depending on on sign signage ordinance and what would be allowed trying to find a plan just to show you what um our Chris I believe he was referencing the corales yeah so well above our above our letter signage we typically put a logo
like this uh in a black and gold um aluminum painted that's sort of what The Goddard School did they have that sort of a circular logo and it seems like you have a number of them on the building is that is that really the intention to have yeah for Branding purposes we like
to put them on on each of the gables that are visible um so I think as a starting point it kind of ends up in in all Gables um but certainly you can see on this elevation here they're not shown you see on the front it's oh I didn't realize yeah so these guys here I
noticed the one in the middle but yeah and there's we're open to it in any signage committee review that we go through you know you have a certain amount of square footage and all of that so you end up um in areas maybe that Center one because it's so tall you would put one there um maybe you only
put them on the front three not on the other um North South and West elevations um is that representative of the size uh Josh do you know if those are drawn 30 in 36 in I believe they are
looking at this so that's the scale yeah it's I don't know my own point of view it's a little unusual to see three of the same sign across the front of any building
but um so one good thing is that that's not facing the road correct this is this is facing thead so so that's the all the other sides we could I'd have absolutely no issue taking them off you know it's Lim I would prefer to see one over the
over the middle um but not on the two sides do you think sure cuz it's sort of a busy logo yeah I kind of also you have the words The Gardener School below the logo the logo saying the gardener school
um what do you think about having the logo on the two ends and not on the center above the words and if it's black and gold that is more preferable than it's black and all your M all your multicolor yeah then
you're multicolored so that's historically question for for you guys does signage fall into what we would discuss here or is there a separate process for it I just don't want to discuss and commit here and then go to someone else and and yeah we we do
tend to touch on signage and talk about signage if we um we don't get into the details of the design but the general location and size we do okay I just would hate to to go in this direction show up and they're like wait they already told you what to do right no this would follow but they would they
would sign off on the final even on a special permit I don't because I don't go to a sign review it's a different committee right it it changed since you did your signage it's now a sign Review Committee okay it used to be the select board it's gone through different iterations so it is
even under a special permit you you still have it depends illumination illumination would Trigger selectman or select board there's as far as as I've done research on um I just I we had talked a little bit about the monument sign last week and I just
wanted to make sure that it wasn't Crossing so that I have no issue there I I if we like them on the two ends and not above Gardener or Gardener with it because of that taller Gable um I I think our preference would be to to have as many of them on this front facade as
we can um just as a brand element I can show you a picture um I I I I honestly and definitely don't like three across the front you know I mean maybe would you suggested cherl one on
each of the ends and just the gardener School in the middle or or the gardener School in the Middle with just one above it but not three I let's take the one out of the middle I I'll approach it that way uh maybe we stack the on top of
Garder to fill the space a little bit more we done say that leaves that sort of empty so that would be yeah yeah I I think you could look at the scale of those the size of those letters in the center yeah this is a bigger yeah um you know plate for for signage than we've
had in the past yeah so that would yeah okay and I just had another follow-up question to um architecture and you had we had talked about the type of materials for the retaining wall as
you come in did you settle on a certain um so that's actually my next item um I haven't I I've settled on in my response to you guys I had said I'm open to either option that we've proposed for that stone veneer for that wall along the entry Drive uh my preference would
be and maybe this is is handled in the approval or the conditions what might be I don't want to stick to one product over the other at this point just because of cost lead times all of those things I want to get uh the retaining wall to design it figure out which of those products they like to work with with better all of that but I have no
problem working with with one of those products I just one the Conigliaro product Conigliaro or the natural ston Wall Solutions I like that one better so I I don't if we want to we want to specify one brand over the other I'm okay there but in terms of like the
block will match the color and nature of of our Stone along the base of the building um I just don't want to get all you have a sample gym of the other so Pine Gardens used it actually on Pleasant Street if you look at those two stone walls those are pre-manufactured
and they're beautiful well in their response I like your your response I I do I um agree with you that you shouldn't stick to any particular brand because it might go out of business you could might change so I'm okay with not
having a brand but I do like how you said it is with natural stone finish um that complements the other natural elements so I think that's that language AG is probably sufficient yeah so what I
would suggest is on the elevation if you can have like a photograph of the stone so that one when you that way when we'll have kind of the color and texture idea of it and so
when you go to get your final that you remember how we had a question come up with the GED school of the siding and we went out to the site and looked at the stone everything I'm just trying to make it clear Maran there you know as clear
as possible so we don't have any um s questions come up during construction that's not what we thought when we said these two options you know so sure it doesn't have to be on the drawing it could be a separate attachment but something which shows the coloration
size kind of the texture of it that'll be another quick and easy thing for us yeah I had submitted one of when he had originally brought up Natural Stone Wall I had sent something in and and I know this is getting picky but since you're going with kind of
black and white would the stone sort of be like Grays not in the Browns but I my intent would be to pick something as close to this uh material going at the base of the building yep okay natural yeah okay good
um next item on my list was the Cobblestone access drive we had talked about that I went and spoke to the traffic engineer touch base with a civil engineer and that response to kind of outlined some some safety concerns as well as dot is just not a standard pavement type um we we are comfortable
putting the granite curb in adding some aesthetic to the entry of that um I just don't feel comfortable putting that in for snow removal sliding as you approach 138 and I did speak to two um commercial snowplow drivers and they agreed with
you okay I'll be honest it wasn't the first thing I thought of but when traffic brought it up I it made sense oh there was an issue or a comment brought up last time about snow storage I'll just point out uh what we're
talking about there um in this area here the grading had a steep 3 to1 slope um so I had bowler kind of adust the grading there create a little bit more of a flat space uh designated kind of a snow storage area there um in this hatch
that kind of captures the the parking lot that's an improvement yeah they graded it a little better so a portion you know in low flows will drain to the parking lot and through the system uh and then we've con confirmed that if anything goes south it'll be maintained in that sale and on our property and and
what's that surface going to be Chris that should be a seated material okay okay um let me get back to the side plan next one just to point out we talked about a guard rail on the Eastern parking there above the slope I think
that was a good one for us to catch um from a safety perspective for parents and kids um we had that that drawn in here along the curb line um and that's wood correct and that's called out as such yes proposed wood guard rail here great thanks we've put that in in a
couple schools it looks it looks very good mhm um shrubs uh at our Culvert under our entry drive we just wanted to add a little bit of um visual barrier from the roadway so you didn't see the rock rip wrap at the bottom of the soil there so
we've kind of enhanced the planting here I believe we even pulled it South a little bit um as a reminder there's also a too change there so 3 or 4T of a vertical buffer as well and it's a good selection of plants it's a collection of deciduous as well
as Evergreens and I think with the crab apples are a little bit shorter as your visual goes up to the maples which are taller so I think that's a good Mi Chris can I just go backward for a minute just for clarity that guardrail is 100% wood
so it's wood horizontals on wood posts it's not wood on Ste wood post wood Rail Great yep good question um planting on the East Edge uh big focus on us trying to make that nonlinear so we added some
depth kind of up and down the slope here um we had also talked about getting a tree in this landscape Island here um because of the underground detention I can't actually get it in the island but we got it right on that edge there um actually in some of these changes guardrail included we had to shift the underground Pond or underground system
um a few feet to the West shade trees I think we got three more shade trees into the parking lot area a couple on the south um yeah much better I'd say yeah that's great nice uh took out two parking spaces made
the parking lot symmetrical there in that bottom corner um exterior lighting we did a little bit of research on this one just to try and and see what really made the most sense what we determined was the north south and west sides are fully
enclosed by Gates and so the timer of those building lights will be on the standard timer which is off an hour after close I'm not sure why this Sheet's not loading there we go so um north south and playground Side West those will just be normal hours uh off
an hour after close on an hour before it close um the main entry facade any lighting there and parking lot we'll go to a motion sensor an hour after um operation so 7 p.m. those would go to a
motion sensor with the intent being at a dimmed level when triggered um something we haven't talked about that I thought also played into this was when the parking lot used to be behind the building we were concerned about questionable activity so I think that helps also from a security perspective uh goose neck downlight on
the monument sign we kind of talked about signage there I don't have any problem at looking at an option there um I think we would we would ultimately look to pursue maybe an illumination on that main Gardener School sign um but I have no problem looking at some sort of
lighting on that Monument sign to match that um construction management plan um bowler had pulled something together Cheyenne had shared with us the Milton Memory Care One I think they dove into uh construction hours they may have even put a traffic hall route plan together discussed dust control and a few other
things I'm not sure if you guys had a chance to look at it if you have any questions can we talk about that for a few minutes yeah that's um they did a good job Chris I I thought um I thought they did a real good job I just said a couple things I'd like to mention and
and ask the board members to weigh in um I think something that I'd like to make sure becomes um you know a requirement is that prior to the start of work there's a coordination slash review
meeting with the police and your Builder whoever the Builder ends up being um and that's if the police choose uh but I think it should be offered so the police and the building department if they so choose at the time that the contractor finalizes the construction management
plan because the reality of it is that someone's going to take this at some point and they're going to find tune it and I'd like to make sure that there's a meeting that occurs so that you get concurrence from the town officials that they're okay with whatever the final construction management plan is okay is
that fair yeah absolutely and I think I think there's a lot of permanent requirement items that'll that'll do that I don't know if police gets triggered in that in that fashion right but Public Works engineering they would all be out there they make note throughout this of their intention not
to affect traffic they make note of um not causing queuing you know out on the roadway on not having queing out on the roadway um they make note of using police details to make sure so I think it would make good sense that the police department have a chance you know to to
meet um since the public roadway is is their responsibility yeah yeah I have I have no problem with that I read the police detail part two and and figured I I there was going to be some sort of coordination and and makes sense not to make the first time you know be a
problem and that's why they're doing doing it we'll coordinate with them ahead of time yeah again it's a we've we've asked this in the past I believe we asked us on the memory care clinic that there' be a point in time where that Builder whoever it is because at this stage you cannot submit a construction management plan that's
that's not going to change you know there'll be some there'll be some changes um that was one and something else that I think is really beneficial and I'm not sure how this happens but um whoever you choose to build this will have um in in in industry we call it a
short interval schedule so a twoe schedule or or most of us now use a 3-e schedule and and at least for the residents that live nearby if that two we or 3 week look ahead schedule is available somehow for them to be able just understand what's happening do you
know what I mean yeah um and I'm not even sure how we make that available within the town like I don't I don't even know if there's a portal where large projects have that kind of information so any Resident somebody who's nearby could say okay i' just like to understand what's going on two or 3 weeks you know click on the website they
got a big earthwork activity you know at least they full War and the town has less problems the town then has less issues with people calling the building department saying hey what's going on over there you know the information's out there the residents can understand it um I think it's just managing expectations that probably save you some
heartache too in the Builder so I don't know how to effectuate that I just think it's a good idea uh completely other than the communication aspect of it and how we get it out to them it you know we we we have weekly
meetings with contractor to get updates so that that schedule is constantly there you're going to have it exactly so it's just a matter of how we get that shared with them yeah and I don't want it to be a burden for any Town officials I just would like it to be available so that any Resident could see it so I don't know if you can you can help
figure out how to do that that'd be great yeah well I'll brainstorm and and talk with the contractor uh most likely who builds this has built our other ones and and we can work something out there do you have like a new projects link to your website where you could put this project up yeah
we would have like a coming soon with a rendering or something maybe a drop down box or something under that we just click on the new Milton project in the schedule possibly we don't have to solve it here yeah right yeah right I'm worried about sharing too much information getting too far out ahead of
us what comes with with public information but but it might be easier for you to be in control of the information where I'm going than having Town officials be in control of the information well it
might be you know what we used to receive like when wcot Woods was going on there was just a periodic um just sort of this is where we are right now this is our next phase or this is you know this is what we're doing right now so it wasn't even weekly it was you know
maybe a month you know a month in advance but um but it could be distributed to the DPW to you know the engineering department the DPW it was distributed to the neighbors too it was also distributed to the neighbors so it was a really nice thing so I have an A
Butters list from the neighborhood meeting so and CC yeah DBW and but DBW engineering whoever else is involved there is probably out there on a a pretty regular basis um but I think that's a good approach I think I as long
as I have emails I could probably get it was really nice to be able to get those it was like ma it was a look ahead probably like um a 3- week look ahead probably and then um I found them to be helpful
MH so that if we did hear from Neighbors um we were familiar with where where things were with the progress was and the neighbors appreciated it I think they were knew what was going on and yeah I I have no problem with that that would likely fall on me and I I would take
that on yeah I'm very yeah you'll have less heartache if you do it what's that you'll have less heart aate you do it yeah okay um construction I was I just want to make sure um what they've written is that the hours of site and exterior
construction shall be 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. and I'm not sure you you'll have to I'm not sure that there's a distinction between exterior and interior but that's something for you to comply with the building department requirements but um
but also I I I want to make sure that we note um if your construction activities are starting at 7:00 a.m. most construction sites have arrivals earlier than that so you know many are coming to life at 6:00 people at you know if you're going to be working at 7 you
can't arrive at 7 right so um just just you know add some add some I think you should just add some clarity that arrivals you know sure could be as early as 6:00 in the morning and the other thing that I'd caution you on under your parking of construction equipment um you
know consider that site equipment often times if they're going to work at 7:00 they're trying to start up their equipment earlier certainly in the winter time and I don't think that's allowed you know what I mean I I just want to be careful that we don't have equipment starting at 6:30 and running
from 6:30 to 7: so that they can be operating at 7:00 you know I just just make sure that the startup time of equipment is not earlier than 7:00 in the morning and also really delivery shouldn't start until 7 because if there's no one there to take the
delivery then you're going to have idling and if you have a big vehicle it's not a roadway that you want idling during morning rush or any rush hour time so the activities prior to 7 should only be passenger vehicle activity arriving on on the site you know what I
mean not yeah subcontractor parking and things of that yeah um and uh you also note in here and I I I'm just for some reason I'm questioning this you have Monday through Friday uh 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Monday
through Friday and again that distinction you have to sort out exterior interior I'm not sure that you have the availability I don't I'm not sure they have the opportunity to work interior after a certain hour but um but you also have 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on Saturday I don't think it's allowed at
7:00 a.m. on Saturday I thought it was I was going to say the same thing I thought it was 8:00 a.m. on Saturdays 9 9 n n on Saturday so just check the hours that those are established hours Chris it's nine okay um and I and I only have one other item your construction
work of parking you indicate that all your parking will be on site um and that's that's to be expected but I think you should just consider the fact that you may have some activities that won't allow you to be parking on site and just
clarify that now certainly when you're Paving you know there'll be nobody parking on site they'll be offsite somewhere so I'm not saying you can't park offsite I think you should just note that you know for all of the project you will park on site except for maybe some distinct activities that
force you to not be able to park on site I I don't want you to write a plan that you can't comply with do you know what I mean so you may you may as well recognize now except for select activities yeah and and those those should be those should be identified well in
advance sure just so just so the neighbors yeah that's all I had okay yeah we can look at that um just a couple more ornamental fence material we had talked about that a little bit last time I sent that back in
um request for no Disturbed buffer area right away in property lines we added a couple notes just to clarify that that the limit of disturbance is just that and and kind of what we're approving so we we need the contractor to maintain that um I had Boulder kind of put some
notes in here no disturbance Beyond limit of work um I believe somewhere um there may even be a note in one of these that kind of clarifies that as well um and what will you be putting up for
the no disturb to prevent is that like Julia is Andy or or Luke [Music] on I'm not seeing them okay oh wait there's Luke hang on I believe they we had discussed some sort of a
construction fence Yeah just something that's inevitably somebody will say oh I didn't know that was the no buffer sound hi Chris so Luke did we put some something in the plans about what how we were going to delineate the the limit of
disturbance absolutely for the record Luke to stepan with bowler uh on the construction management plan we specifically called out a 6 foot high construction fence that would basically delineate the limit of work
line perimeter protection under that a secure a great great it's in there okay I just wanted to double Che and then the last item I had thank you Luke was uh shade around the playground
we did do a little bit of revised grading adjusted a little bit of the planting area there got four additional shade trees uh kind of on the south and and West areas there um and then I submitted the shade structure for what the playground typically has and should have
here so with that that was everything we had talked about last time um like I said I think we've really got into a good place with this um something I didn't say earlier that I that I meant to is I do feel like all of us neighbors boor Design Consultants this is probably
the most effective and efficient School we've put together um Gardener school has put together right I was going to ask for a review of us a customer survey one question on the guard rail sorry that's all right is
that painted or is that left natural natural uh and we'll typically make sure it's it's sanded down just because we've been talking lately about kids like to run their hands on things so we'll make sure it's got a smooth finish cool um I I you know I had a
conversation with one of our members and uh and we both agreed that um you have made the process easier for us too um not to take away at all from any of the attorneys that represent clients it does
make a difference when the client's sitting at the table and can actually have the discussion and negotiate you know uh Solutions sure you know while we sit here um and that I think has been really helpful because we've solved some of the concerns you know at the table
with you we don't always have that opportunity and it's likely because our the representative the legal representative doesn't always have that opportunity you know not because they don't want to but uh having you here having Josh available having bowler available it makes a difference
so I appreciate that and I I don't think it really saves anybody time if if we just stand here with legal people and have that conversation at this end at the same place let's be careful we have great respect people that with us great [Laughter]
respect yeah okay so I guess the only other thing that we're waiting for which I just was going to touch on is the a final letter the peer review um following up the um there were out a few outstanding items that you were
addressing do you want to just talk about that for a minute Luke do you want to talk about those remaining items do you think there's a path here where we can get those wrapped up uh worked out with horley Wht um in the next week that's Chris did you ask did you
ask me that yeah yeah I I I spoke briefly with Andy earlier about the the the comments yeah no Indie and I discussed it and really the remaining horley Wht comments are they're very technical nothing that
we have any issue with complying with they're all just you know add a note here uh revise a detail type thing so uh we would recommend if the board saw fit that uh these would all be resolved you know prior to the issuance of a building
permit as a condition of the approval because again there's nothing in the final letter from them that uh is any real concern to us okay all right I would
yeah so it sounds like we have a few um couple of documents to come back to us um so it seems as if we need to continue the public hearing to be able to accept those documents but I don't see myself having any
outstanding issues or comments after that just it'll be just a matter of receipt right so that I think we could close the public hearing next week if we if we get those documents in um okay yeah well on the windows the stone I don't if everybody agrees with me on
that but I agree with you Cheryl yeah okay and then the order of conditions do you have somebody who's going to be preparing um or is that you mean the decision decision and the Order of
conditions do you typically no typically P the town is prepared okay which we could use I think we could probably use the gardener school as a temple don't look at me no no I think we should it's just what you wanted we now get to WR
decision we're short sta so that was so what I was going to suggest is we do four people here we have we have the gardener going to take a stab at it make a stab might not get done by next week um what I was going to have when Cheyenne is better
feeling better um and if she's watching having her pull up what what our site our approval decision was for the gardener school um and we also have the one from um what's you're using G sorry the GD school I'm sorry there's so Sim
The Goddard School the other school though that was on Blue Hill lab also Little Sprouts Little Sprouts I think looking at both of those I think probably drafted the one and Maran you probably drafted the one U so those would be good good sample base so
Sean so shouldn't we be having a lawyer do this at this point well theya ayen what's that I was going to say probably have an attorney yeah do you have somebody that can draft it I guess I can I typically don't only because the
towns have had a pretty boilerplate method for how they do it so I would think right this would be my FIS project and I've never been asked to draft it myself okay so yeah we we have some attorneys who typically come in
with just we we ultimately will end up writing or amending templ the summary at the beginning and all that stuff minutes and which typically comes from your side and then we would just make sure that we're in agreement with the conditions um which I would do next week would ask
from you is at least a list of all the documents that you think are the final documents and then the dates and so we normally have that they were submitted let's say it say it was August and it was amended four times you would have the original date the the list of the sheets and then each Amendment date on
it so that gets so if you at least put that together you know what I'll have when cheyen jul or Julia what we should do is similar to what we did with a construction management plan we sent you a sample of what what we look for in it
so we can send you what our approved um site plan approval for um those two preschools and you can see the documents that were and how it was formatted and what we would need to put into our our decision okay yeah CU I have them here and there's no list of documents from
what I can tell Maran there should be a list of documents right usually when I write a decision I do I can't speak for what's in God I go back in B yeah or we have recommendations for attorneys yeah and I have no problem doing that
that would also that would help everybody to know exactly what's being approved what's the latest what's the date on that document all of that so I can pull together that list no problem and it's helpful if somebody has a question when construction is underway and is that really what got approved and then at
least it's it's easy to identify the documents okay with dates and then we also want to cheack the amend amend exactly okay because the the site plans those have been amended a few times so what and what I was thinking is
I was thinking of having Cheyenne draft it put it together I think she's and then running it by Town Council I think we definitely need an attorney's um absolutely look looking it over and if Chris can supply the list of documents yeah um I think at least then we can
compare that to what he thinks are his final documents because exactly you know honestly the way we have the electronically all the documents they come in in a folder for a particular meeting and so you know um You probably
have the best tracking system for what you think are the most current documents and then we can make sure that that it's consistent with what we what we have and think sure do you want me to include fence shop drawings all of that
cut sheet okay everything yep and then I'll I'll add on that list at the end whatever documents are being updated for next time correct yeah that's great so all right so are we ready to continue the hearing continue
the hearing to uh Fe February 20th so I'll make a motion to continue the public hearing for site plan approval for zero Blue Hill app parcel B- 7-5 to February 20th at 7 105
yep second all right so Julia will add that to the um did we vote oh sorry yeah can just for clarity that's a zoom meeting that's not an in-person meeting it is a zoom meeting
so we had we were scheduling it as a zoom easier only I appreciate you clarifying yeah it is yeah good good sitting here alone Zoom you from here yeah so it'll be on Zoom okay so there's a motion is there a second already second second
sorry all right all in favor I thank you thank you you next week thanks you all thank you okay all right so moving on um Julia do you w to um just this is the
discussion of the util budget okay did you have any information on that um the discussion is just basically to decide how much you want to spend um because the PO has been tacked
out so I I one of the things that I recall is uh that we had grant money that had restrictions um and it had to be used for compliant zoning and then we had
planning board funds So when you say the contract do you know Julia if that's the how that contract is the fee was allocated does that mean
they're out of the grant funding part of the contract or Just sh didn't mention specific because you know I don't recall how much we had left in our fiscal year funding we have yeah because she did go
through um and I think Julet was that in the budget you gave me or is that for future looked the budget that I gave you um the util po like the last bill that we got from util we had to draw from our
miscellaneous budget to pay half of it because we didn't have enough from which budget Julia I'm sorry what you said you had to draw from which budget is a draw from the 50,000
planning board right and how much how much did you have to draw from that uh I think it was 4,000 yeah it was a small amount okay so here's the 50 yeah so as as of Jan at the beginning of January we
pretty much had our whole we hadn't spent any money yet from our our budget so we've just dipped into it just a little bit so we do have um significant funding to to finish that but um but they need a contract EXT they
need a contract extension so I almost feel like we should wait I would like to discuss that when Cheyenne do you think we can discuss that next week and maybe have a recirculation of that I know we all discussed and approve the contract but if we're going to extend it we
should see if there's any modifications we want to make to it yep so and I think we shouldn't we should not wait until a month from now for that that so I'd like to have that be discussed next I agree I think so yeah you going to put put this on the
agenda for the 20th yeah why don't we just so we can end their contract not just their budget but their contract okay okay so it would be the same line out discussion of U budget
contract okay great um and are you when you're ready to go to the next yep all right so that's good all right are we ready so the next item we have is the MBTA Community zoning
discussion um so this I just I put on because I I want it just it should always be on there because there's always going to be until we um are fully compliant have this on so this zoning discussion so obviously there's um a select board meeting tomorrow morning
which will give us more clear Direction I would say um and what what the select board's approach will be what we know right now is we're still in the comment period with the regulations um we know
that the law is legal and enforcable um by the by the uh AG um the regulation period just for those who are watching the there's an open comment period I think the select board's talking about what comments they would like to submit
um that comment period is up on the 21st of February so then the comment period will be closed and then we'll await the final uh final regulations so then we have we have a time frame which Sheryl
when you filled out um and submitted and I appreciate you're doing that um a draft action plan it um when the planning board met we agreed with all the sort of all the time frame of all the dates that we were scheduled to make sure that we have
compliant zoning um by July 14th um but before that deadline are we going to submit um comments to the select I know the Selectmen are before I would like to talk about the comments too but can I can I just say that um I'm still in the dark a little
bit about the meeting because I couldn't find a recording and there's no minutes yet so um did you see the like the draft um I saw what Cheyenne sent after but I haven't had the benefit of knowing what
the discussion was and so I wouldn't mind um a recap just so I'm not in the dark I had hoped to be able to watch the meeting on Milton Access TV but I haven't been able to locate it so um and I asked Cheyenne if she could send a link and so I I I don't know maybe it's
available now last I checked was yesterday but um the um I I do think the comment um we it ends in the 21st we have an opportunity to comment I do think beyond
what I think you discussed which was Rapid Transit aspect of the guidelines there are other aspects of the guidelines that I think we should comment on um so I understand that you took a vote and you
sent to the select board um an action plan um with an appendix that largely reflects what Mr DH submitted um which is stating that uh we don't believe that we're rapid transit or we don't even believe that we're adjacent um and that
the the commuter rail capacity um is only dictated by the 15 units in acre but I don't think that's really been thought through very well what that exactly means in terms of districts we haven't really looked at what does 15 Acres look like within a half a mile of
the commuter rail stations and so um I think the public needs to to start hearing about that um and I think they need to hear about it soon just like the two speakers who spoke earlier um I do I do think um that we've done some work on
the rapid transit piece and I think we probably are pretty close to having something to take to the public and get their feedback on but I don't think we're anywhere close on something else whether it's 10% whether it's 15% or whether it's something that's really five or 6% and I don't think that we
have a luxury of waiting a month to start talking about that honestly so the question is will we uh well first of all just to recap the just real highlight an overview so we basically we started the meeting going
through your draft first we wanted to go I wanted to make sure everyone went through um everything that you had put in because I thought you put in some some very good language some of the housing initiatives that were in we're um going through right now um I think we then we
went to where we had been in our original our last time when we met and we were discussing the action plan where that where we were on that draft um what we were we sort of synthesized some of what you had in there with your language
but the um what we the reason why I think we ultimately decided not and the board can also weigh in on this that we decided not to um at this time take a position on where
um what um what type of community we are is because the reg we don't know the regulations are still in the comment period and we don't have final regulations we have emergency regulations but those might NE those might not necessarily be the regulations
that whatever zoning we put forth in July that those are the regulations so the regulations could change um there was also the fact that um there was a meeting and you might not have known this either because it was I found out
like last minute that um our uh representative Wells and Bill Driscoll were going to be meeting with um the hlc with the head um at Augustus so they met they met the the day after we were
meeting and they were going to go in and talk to them about the fact that um and not to because Rapid Transit is is in the regulations so what what we were saying is what we know right now is what is in the statute and the statute
language very explicitly says Subway it doesn't say any extensions that was hlc adding that language into their regulations but so we we wrote something based on the fact that what we have is right now the
regulations are not legal and enforcable um there's emergency regulations but what we know is what's in the statute so we wrote and that's why we didn't um we didn't want to just randomly pick a category I think the majority of the
board feels we should be if any if we are going to follow what is in the regulations and the regulations are properly promulgated and finalized that we would be an adjacent community simply by the fact that we do not have a Subway in Milton our trolley is by definition
is is not a Subway I think Sean you even read off what what the definitions were so that's where we were coming in we were saying you know and we were trying to express that we we intend to be fully compliant a with the law and
then you know depending on where the regulations fall so as far as I understand the emergency regul um are legal and are in effect so to days to say that they're um that we don't have anything I think is not quite
correct and then I and then yes within 90 days we'll have regulations and we don't know that they're going to find us not to be Rapid Transit um and then the question is do we accept that as a town and you know if we yeah and as a board
we set our responsibility was to prepare Zone um that would be compliant with Rapid Transit and would be compliant with ad JC community and what you submitted was not even adjacent community in what you suggested based on the statute so now
we're talking about a third option and there's no criteria for that option there's nothing in the guidelines for that option nor is there really for adjacent Community because hlc hasn't defined us as that so so we're now at a
period where the select board is making some determination tomorrow and they're also they've also opened a door for the discussions with hlc hlc has said that they would um they would be open to a
conversation with Milton on looking at um a potential possible adjacent Community I don't know where that discussion will go but I I was you know I I think we're going to know a lot more within the next week or two so you know
I think you both were at the the meeting the other night as I as I was right and chair Wells said they they still said that we're considered Rapid Transit so you know I think um it's not going to be something that
it's going to be decided at this table so we need to decide how we're going to advance zoning right and we need you assistant yes um and we need the Public's input I I really think um that
we can't chart a path um that doesn't bring people up to speed and you know to where where things are right um and and I think we've been getting a lot of input we've been getting a lot of
emails so I'm but the question is we there's there's nothing that we can feed the public right now until which I would love to do I'm I'm that's I'm pushing ahead with the East Milton overlay I would I love the idea of having public input but until you know we have people
who are coming and saying the regulations are law right now and and it's it's very I think it's been very confusing I think the Adu process has been very confusing I think the MBTA the fact that the the regulations were found
by the SJC not to be legal and enforcable I don't even know if they are properly promulgating right now the new the new guidelines the new regulations because they're asking for an action plan and this was a big piece of our discussion they were asking
for an action plan before the comment period is over so does that mean they're just ignoring comments they want they wanted us to submit an action plan based on regulations which have not been finalized and have not been properly promulgated so we have this is you know
I would love to move forward with something I would love to have a definite this is what we are um so but we don't have but but we do have something if you what we were doing in the zoning that passed
previously looked at having some areas of lower density and some areas of higher density average out to 15 units an acre but what was what you've described in your action plan as meeting
the the statute is 15 units an acre and within a half a mile of a community rail station it's taking what the statute says what does that look like where is that which properties are affected which property owners need to be up to speed
on what that means because we can't wait until zoning is written and then take it to the public and say by the way this is the best plan I hope you like it they need to be a part of the discussion Absolut right from and we can't wait them oh no month we would not move
forward without having a discussion on yes on that and in in many ways I think um what we know is in the statute but it would be almost an adjacent Community because we would get to choose where those where we put it where we put a
higher Den the statute says a half a mile of the commu station it doesn't give you flexibility the guidelines are what give you the flexibility but but if you look at um the Blue Hill La the Blue Hill la commu rail um half mile actually
extends into one of our districts which is yeah well into unidy house that we've already looked at so we it also goes into Capen which is the Elliot Street quar so we have and the Blue Hills Parkway quarter so we have we have
already started looking at um and some Zoning for that area so I think that's a we've already have a a good little start but the problem is if we go if you follow the logic of you're only going by the statute 15
units an acre what does that start to look like on those Parcels because it's different now you're take single family lots and you're saying you're going to reone those for 15 un an acre that's a lot different than the LA Street Corridor where it's single family lots and it's capped at three or perhaps if
we change this to four um yeah so and then does that mean you're going to bump up on quy house because you don't have to you can only you can keep it at 15 but you're not being a I don't think you can pick and
choose which of the guidelines you you think are are proper that's why I'm that's why I'm not that's why we're not doing that we that's why our plan at this time was was not to to until we have finally properly prolongated so to work on zoning until
the 90day period's over no I think I well I think we'll know um if the discussions with the state how the state discussions go um I think we'll need we need to some we still need some clarity um on if these
are regulations that are going to be finalized we probably the 21st I don't know how soon we'll have them but I would say think they're going to be finalized I don't know how soon after the comment period that they'll be finalized I they will be finalized um I just don't know how soon after the
comment period that they'll be finalized um I I feel like it's still was the Adu finalized after the comment period it was fast yeah and I would predict this would be the same yes yeah
we we we could work on a 10% plan from what we understand um that's the discussion that um is being had with hlc and we were directed by the select board to work on a 10%
plan I think that would be yeah I think that would and I think we could pull that together pretty quickly um but um I think again something will the pro the regulations something will will I think um we should work on a 10% plan
but we should also work on the 25% as we talked about and I think um coming back to well I really feel feel like this public part of this should happen sooner rather than later um and the and we have to figure out what the best way to have
that public input I don't think these meetings are the best way when you have a public comment period um you know when Tim was doing the zoning he had monthly um sessions some were in person and some were on
Zoom I I think it would be good to have an in-person uh session um and maybe at the council aging where something could be projected maybe with maps that people could look at you know and and understand the areas in which they're
being discussed um but I I think we should have somewhat of a plan yeah I think we should have a 10% plan and then show it show that and we talk just like we did with East Milton Square we had a public forum we spent a lot of time on it now we're going to have another one after
the zoning is done not that it can't be tweaked but the the issue is people in have made a lot of comments that we we didn't get comments on the zoning that P town meeting until very
late um and people became very concerned because that once they understood it what it was they they didn't some people didn't like the choices that had been made but they weren't didn't feel as if they had an opportunity in advance to
weigh in so when we say ajacent Community does that mean it's Tethered to the trolley is it tethered to the Comm rail station ajent Community is it can go anywhere in town it doesn't have to be within a half
mile of of the trolley but but I think it should be for commuter rail or Comm commuter rail right so but you I I reread the guidelines today before I came and those
districts need to be something that hlc is going to approve and their preference is close to the public transportation so we need to have conversations with folks about where so
what do you mean the hlc's preferences to keep it near the commuter commuter rail but it can go anywhere in town yeah I don't think it can go anywhere in town if you I think an adjacent the way I understand it is it can but so you're confusing this is kind of the problem
okay let's just focus on the statute the statute and I know I've been saying this for you know 3 years and I think that's a great starting point focus on the statute it's let's look at the areas within the half a mile of our
Comm of our commuter rail and then um we get that down so we've met the terms of the statute and then we look at the next bump up if we we are determined to be an adjacent Community then we can bump it
up it's easier for us to kind of agree on a smaller amount because I think we all have a pretty good understanding where we would like to see some development in town There's opportunities in town start with a smaller amount and then slowly add to
it I don't understand you know how we're going to determine how we're compliant without fitting the criteria that has been established by hlc and the guidelines other than if what you're talking about is a flat 15 units an acre
and I think that needs to be sort of understood um one thing I if we think about other comments to hlc which is a letter you know what comments would have to go in next week
um what we could comment on really is what we learned from the rapid transit work that we did and you know I personally think that we ran into challenges with the minimum subdistrict size of five acres yes that's what going
to be one of my comments and I um if the board doesn't plan to submit a comment letter I I do plan to submit comments myself um that would ask for that to be lowered um we also I think heard concerns
about um not losing businesses and and impacting our business districts and there's a cap on how many units can be in a mandatory mixed use district and I I think we should comment on that and that we should we think that we should be
allowed more uh and then um to your point Jim about other places in in town have a comment uh about wanting to be thoughtful about where those places can
be and I think um you know being in a location which has access to MBTA bus line uh and other amenities if they're if they're not as great as some places like East Milton Square but at least amenities that those
um you know I don't know if you all recall but um Tim had been given Authority by the select board to ask if granted AV would be acceptable and East Milton Square would be
acceptable but he ALS but he didn't ask about Randolph a sites if those would be acceptable because those were further away and so I a comment that I would like to have go back is we we should get assurance that those could be acceptable
locations um for reasons that we think that there's opportunity for some development on some of those Parcels so the 5 acre piece would get to the paper mill it would get to two granted a because those by themselves are smaller than 5
acres and then we didn't get to count all of what we would have liked to in the in the business district so I think U that could be quite a beneficial comment and then this other piece about the locations
um I have two thoughts I either if we should find out if the select Bard submitted comments because I think we we don't want to have conflicting comments ments coming from various different boards so either I would say possibly
submit your comments to Nick Milano well Nick just sent us an email yeah oh they uh the select board is submitting comments and Nick's asking for okay comments well he said that we we could either submit together or separately
yeah there's there's a letter that he sent that's drafted and he's asking for comments did he include that his letter in that email he did yeah all right so I think that maybe um we should send our comments to him I don't mind you Cheryl sending as an
individual either um if you would want to send your own comment letter and and also I'd like to increase our affordability M um because right now the guidelines and they require you% to pay a consultant in Economic Development
consultant to verify that you can do that it's it would be nice not to have to pay more money MH to Simply increase it within a certain you know margin because the crisis is for affordability and we all know we've discussed that
this has nothing to do with affordability um and we are desperately trying to create more housing that is Affordable so I I think that they should be willing to increase it from 10% up to
something higher also we've talked about um smaller um if we're allowing for smaller development um we've talked about how there's um not enough um profit for the
developers to um do one affordable unit if it's a three if it's three units um there's not enough money in it so they're not going to do it so the other question is in lie of um getting a full affordable unit maybe there could be a
payment to our affordable housing trust and I think it should be tied to um um like the assessment of it or the sale of it a certain percentage not just a dollar amount but um an a percentage
in actual yeah so then it could fluctuate the the the the the um contribution the the contribution to the affordable hous trust is really dependent on what the sale price is so if the market is a little bit
softer we're not sort of um hindering the developer from maximizing their asset and if the um the market is a little bit stronger then they're contributing a higher percentage to our um affordable housing
trust well you know that um them they cap it at 20% with even with the economic development study in part because they don't want to make it financially in inviable to do
these projects and you know the differential on a market rate unit to sell versus a affordable unit is last I spoke was to connell's at 131 L it was a half million doll differential so if
you're going to make up that half a million dollars you need a lot lot of places to make it up and a lot of units and that's why you see the the 40 BS try and push as many units as they can because they're trying to make up that differential so you know I think
whatever percentage I think this is something we did talk about uh when we were working on this Z to try and get some kind of a contribution in for the smaller uh development so I think it's a good uh thing to to put out there to them so I would send your comment I
think you should send your comments to I think anyone should maybe forward your comments to Nick um with Cheyenne being out and having the flu right now and the deadline for the comments being the 21 I you know I don't I I think it would
be um more efficient to send our comments or draft our own letter if if folks feel inclined but uh to send comments and and add it to Nick's because we won't have enough time to meet if we're meeting on the 20th and then we have to vote for like an official planning board letter is that
what your fear is is we're not going to have enough time well I think their their plan is to vote their comment letter before then I think his his they're going to vote it on the 18th okay so we don't really have an option so we have to just send it as an I mean
we we if we had we could discuss a letter on the 20th if we wanted to send one in on the 21st if they have a draft if if if he has a he does it's pretty yeah I mean but if he has our comments put into a final draft we could vote on that so my only concern
is if we send in individual comments um are are comments actually going to end up in the letter and the question is whether they are planning board comments or individual planning board member comments and so um yeah because if it's individual comments the
likelihood of them having to accept them and put them in their their letter they wouldn't have to well they wouldn't have to in either case I think at least it's a stronger I intend on signing mine Jim Davis planning board
member town of Milton your comments yeah I just would hope that they would incorporate our individual comments knowing that we are under our time constraint that we don't have a meeting before their next
meeting I it looks like their comments are focused on I Haven seen it when did he send it I haven't read it but I just did a56 p.m. tonight it's probably best that that letter is from Nick to the select board and the planning board it's probably
best that we don't talk about that letter much more in this meeting well this is a public meeting and a public document it's not executive session I don't remember my batteries died I can't read exactly how we uh how he had written it but yeah I mean it'll be a public document once it's filed too um
but I think if you don't feel as if we can come to become some a consensus about what the comments should be as a board in time for theirs which I don't see how we could for their inclusion by the 18th yeah that means we'd have to decide tonight so then it's either we do our own comment letter or we do
individual comments to hlc I think that's really the option I don't think there's really an option for us to have a agreed upon comments to the select board but if there's anything that we see that we think is important to add to Nick's letter to that
I think you would or would we send our comments to Cheyenne and then Cheyenne collects them and then she sends them saying these are the planning board comments so it looks a little bit more official than us just sending
individual except that they wouldn't be official discussed or correct we couldn't discuss it um they wouldn't have been discussing a correct we' have it it would be just individual comments it would not be a board comments at that point right and then we would we could
review it on the 20th I just want to remind you guys that Monday is a holiday yeah so if we wanted to do our own letter I think then what you say makes sense Maggie is to circulate
comments to Julia and Cheyenne to to put together and we could and on the 20th We could decide whether we could agree on those or not and submit a planning board letter or then if we can't then individually submit our comments that's
good um all right so everyone will send comments to Cheyenne and Julia and then put those all together we s them to Julia and then she edits them and then we get them back and vote on them or no
no no we don't have Julia she edits them and then just sends them in she I don't even know I don't even know she edits them okay we just send it to her so we send our comments she puts it in the form of a letter or we all send letters and put
in for and just say these are the comments I've received from planning board members and then submit it to the select board okay okay do we also reserve the right to write our own letter yeah you certainly
can as an IND idual um I don't even think she would send it to the the select board probably will have already submitted their letter though yes yeah I think I think that's it would go directly to hlc so what we would I think
if you we wouldn't have time yeah have um unless you want to send comments but if they're going to vote on Monday and I mean Tuesday and Monday is a holiday I mean I think giving us a day on the comment letter
is probably just informational at this point even though the email says submit so um oh that's unfortunate we weren't included prior so but I do think you know if we think about the things that
we are more uniquely experienced with like we talked about earlier with with these guidelines because if they come back and and keep us Rapid Transit at least we will have commented on the things that we found challenging in applying the
guidelines here and I agree it will improve our ability to do the zoning if they make those changes very much so yeah okay so I mean I think it's stronger if it comes from us as a board
that way than individually and you know people if we have things that we don't agree on that we want to send individually fine but at least on the things that we think that we can agree on like I think that what you said about affordability I think what I said about the other things it seems like we have
agreement on those if there's anything else I think hlc would be hard pressed to to consider individual comments they need a board so I agree with you it should be board comments you know I'm I'm not sure how they're ever going to
you know deal with individuals you know but and I I think you know just my own opinion I mean at some point I think they so can we just take a vote right now that we support adding um AIP we um increase in affordability a
decrease in um District size the um and cont inreasing the cap on the units that are allowed in a mandatory mixed use and allowing the subd districts to be along in areas are
B BTA bus line and less than five acres yeah less than five acres and a monetary contribution on the on the less than 10 I think we capped it well I mean we had said that we thought that the affordability would kick in at 10 units I think that's right so I think we said anything less than 10 we'd like a
contribution so so those are like five things are those five things we just did you get that jul Julia more Julia um we can send them to you too I've already started to right the four the three that I mentioned okay um I was
planning to put a little map from one of 's presentations in to kind of graphically you know kind of show so they can visualize the the constraints that we were up against and show that we were actually studying them you know like that the mapping would
show that we studied them so I'm I'm close to to that um so if you wanted to write something up on the affordability I think we could have a draft ready to review and vote on next week if you wanted I think that
would does that sound good Julia yeah but we then we need to submit it by Tuesday no we're going to submit separately we're going to okay you want to submit separately okay the planning board will do their okay that's and I think well the things that we just
talked about agreeing to um I think the select board you can see what their letter says but they will probably address different things right they're probably more big picture it does I I don't know how what we just talked about is going to fit into the letter that I
read I just don't think it will so we should keep ours ours are more technical because that's the level that and there those are more of an overv I think they'll show that we've we've been grappling with how to comply and I I don't think that's a bad thing to
demonstrate that that we have yeah good okay okay we are in agreement on that so so can I just want lastly just yes agreement on what we're going to when we're going to engage the public
on a time [Applause] frame I would like to um we know we have time meeting come up we know we have East Milton Forum coming up we're going to have
a a May town meeting so I I just don't think we should get some something on a calendar my my an opinion that I'll offer it it would be the engagement we had from the
public happened after they had something to consider right something something that was developed that they could consider Yeah Tim had a monthly the whole time before we had any zoning to consider and it it just brought people
up to speed and you know I think there's a lot of uncertainty about where Milton is in this right now and so um I don't think we have to show any
districts we can we can basically say where we think we are what we think we're going to do next and how we want to address some two different paths um knowing that the outcome is still of
what our class classification may still be open I I have my doubts about that myself but I think what we could say is you know these are the the two directions and we should put some parameters on what we think how we would approach it and we would have to discuss
that I don't think we have to decide that tonight but if we set a forum up for a month or so from now we will have time to discuss it we were going to have U do a presentation in November they were preparing a presentation for that and it was to just bring people up to
speed on what we had looked at to date there so we also have to remember Tim um had those meetings because nobody knew anything like nothing no one even knew MBTA zoning so a lot of it was just getting a lot of people still don't know
caught up including like last election I think a lot of people know a lot more so I think we're a little bit further along in the process than we were last year along however I do think we should have um a
forum should it be the end of March or should it be the end you know if we have March 6th is East Milton and then the next we have a meeting the next week after March 6 so
maybe how would we have Zoning for meeting for May for something in July or even may I mean May or July if we don't get the process going and so I my feeling is if we we have to you know
I spoke about this a lot in the last year that we need to have a map out of schedule so why don't we say early April we'll think about early to M April um so it gives us March it gives us march to
at least come up with don't forget their school vacation in April so after school vacation no I think before how would you how would you even have anything ready before July if you don't even get engag the public until the end of April if you look at May and
June you could have two public forums in May and June so that's a total of four public forums just well that's just um you would have to have your written by then you would I mean you would have to have submitted it before then if you're
going to have a hope of getting it in in July you need to get I think I mean we're we should be looking at the end of March I think at that point all we would be able to present is all the different
districts that we've potentially looked at that is that what you're wanting to go in but people are going to say well what is your what are you going to do with those districts what is your plan what your I feel like I want to yeah no because here's the thing if you
said the we can adjust what was previously approved as a rapid transit Community by taking some Zone capacity out of East Milton and putting it where one option is to put some more
in the ell Street quarter another is to put it in a district on Randolph a you don't have to have everything ironed out that's a general concept what do you think about that concept you might have people in the Elliot Street Court Wonder well how much more and what does that look like and so have to have some
answers but we do because we've looked at it so we should work it out as a board first before so for example I think the the 25% Rapid Transit we have options for and we can take that to the community but we don't have the options
for really are the adjacent or the statute so we would need to to spend some time thinking about that between now and then but even then we don't have to have it all iron out we could say here's the areas that are within a half
mile of the commuter rail the largest one is near Blue Hill la which overlaps with the trolley and we think this is a good area to concentrate and just start the conversation with people before we say yeah that's it this is the district
and we used 20 grand of 's time and we we have to backtrack if we could get as if we could get as far along with 10% as we have with 25% I think then would be in a good place you're right about 25%
we know what our options are we've discussed some of the changes that you just mentioned we we're we we've done plenty of work on 25 we've done no work on 10 none we've done we you you well we know where the zones are within the commuter
rail and I said in the email that I sent all of you in where that action plan was attached I think we should Focus around the Blue Hill lab because of the overlap with the trolley and I think we could if
we're meeting with u um in on the 13th is that when they're coming next we haven't scheduled them yet um well we should schedule them because we can start talking to them about that area in the paper mill in the
paper mill is fine too um so I if we set ourselves a goal of a meeting then we have to we have to think from the end out if we're really going to try and hit July we need to jump on that's why I was asking earlier about waiting a month to
have a meeting because we need to start jumping on that alternative option and then have public input 10% yeah yeah yeah my point is uh I have no issue having a public for but we can't
show them what 10% looks like if we have a public forum we we what are we going to say well where where do you we this Board needs to discuss where that's my point that's all I'm saying that's why I'm saying we can't wait a month to have a meeting no no what you're saying is you want to have a public forum before
we have something to show people I we can have a public forum the question is going to be can you tell us what the 10% plan looks like and what are we going to say what I'm saying is we set a date for a public forum and we work to get something to show for a 10% plan for
that for we've had over a year that's fine we haven't done anything what's what calendar would you like to do that on we have a month that we're talking about not having a meeting right and I'm asking when UIL is coming next and they're not scheduled in fact we have we have to talk about their contract next
week so if we talk about their contract next week I'm thinking we could have util come on the 13th and discuss and have them come prepared to start sure working to we could probably almost if we get the person who can do things in
live time we could get a significant amount done on the meeting on the 13th on a 10% plan I think my point is I I think we absolutely should do that before so we can show the public something right so I think we can ask
them to work on and I'm happy to ask Cheyenne to schedule she said when and this is all been I mean it's been sort of um with her nothing being out but I I just didn't know what we were going to hear from the select board and what you
know what we were going to ask youti and I just didn't want to start spending their money and time until we have it we don't know their availability either so I I would ask if if Cheyenne's able to get in touch with them before the next week's meeting yeah that we we can see
what their schedule looks like and ask if they can begin to work on looking at the area that the overlap between the community Rail and the matapan trolley in the generally in the Blue Hills Parkway area um I have felt that we really
didn't study the parkway area as thoroughly as we should have before and I think um we can ask them to start looking at that before and they can bring something to us the next time so that we don't lose all the time in
between I was going to ex exactly so I think that's I think having them come that that date would be would be great and we could have it um yeah so I don't think a whole 10% plan should be around the Blue
Hills we can discuss that now 108 no I get it I get it but I don't yeah I think we'll B based on some of our options that we've been looking at exploring that is one of the options but yeah it's just the it was the largest area and it it's an overlap of two Transit assets so
it seems a good place to start and but there's also Extra Space Storage which is great vill there's we already know all of those though what we could do with those is but I'm saying if what we want to present as a I think that would be an option but but let's you know try
to see how far they could get in pulling something together but I I hear what you're saying we should have them definitely explore that because that's an area we haven't fully maybe looked at closely enough yeah my feeling is if you look at catch's law and you look at
Granite AB North and you look at the village and you look at Elliott Street by the time you get to Blue Hills Parkway if you include uny house I mean you're there you're at 10% well all right to do it
tonight yeah just did it we're at 10 o' so at 10 after 10 so I think that's great so I will reach out we'll find out U's availability um and and ask them to come and if they yeah I'll I'll have
them I'll we'll put out some dates so and I you know I I don't want to keep adding other dates but if they couldn't come that week of the 13th we we could consider having just an MBTA that's what we should do meeting we should
do on the week before and and maybe take the sixth on you know and say let's just do have see if they're available on the 6th um and just do mvta only and if we do that they can't do the if they can't do the 13th and if we do that you know
we can let the public know that there's going to be ample opportunity for them to listen learn and provide comment in advance of a bigger public forum because the problem that people have is when it's a piece on the agenda
they don't know when it's going to be if it is it at 8:00 or 10:00 and how much time is going to be devoted to it it's hard to get people to put it into their calendar if they know it's a meeting that's dedicated to the topic then I think it's much easier agreed makes sense
yeah okay all right so by Maggie great thank you so much that was a good discussion um because certainly we we will be compliant um by July we'll be done thank you Maggie have a good night that's good good night Maggie
night okay and so the last item on our agenda is the they Nursery special permit discussion um if oh this is our public hearing is closed so we're I'm thank you sorry about that the public hearing is closed on this um so we have
our um sort of the draft and Cheryl had some edits Julia did you something yeah talking to her is that Julia yeah I think somebody was just talking to her okay yeah
sorry you want me to bring up the um permit is that helpful cop we all have a copy now so actually um do you want to go through I think for um for the public it would be um beneficial to have it on the screen and
then um pull it up Julia I I do have one question question and I have one comment but whenever you guys are ready so the yellow is where I had a question yeah and the Brad you know edits are where I'm I changed made
a couple couple changes we may have a similar question all right go ahead you ask first okay yeah I this this is just I think writing it in a way that's reflective of how it should be written so under findings which is SE
for let me go over to paragraph C um and in yellow which charl you highlighted and the Restriction that the business cannot be sold to any new owners including the children of
Maggie and Josh Oldfield I think it should just say Maggie the children of Maggie or Josh Oldfield because I don't think it's likely that Maggie and Josh Oldfield to having children but also I had a question about
that not not so much so um direct this here mine had to do with let me see I do think that language is necessary I mean oh yeah we have an attorney here that you know someone could question that later and say well well I even question the existence of the sentence in there
because under on page 9 under 8 transfer of property it says that in the event that the property and or landscaping business shall be transferred to a third party that that that seems to mean that
you can sell it because in that case then that third party has to seek uh to continue operation of landscaping business on the property then a new application is required so if
that's the case then how can you say it can't be sold else well well I mean it does say I'm sorry if you're there on eight in the event that the property into a landscaping business so the property could be sold right but the landscaping business could
too in that sentence M so um Can can I just ask a clarifying question then of um Marian about whether there's a inconsistency in these two um Provisions do you see that as a cons
inconsistency first provision just um draws attention to the fact that it's a very limited permit that only that's only able to be used by the children of Margaret and Robert Oldfield and those of children who are currently using the
per Maggie and and Josh Oldfield so the there's no one eligible to use this permit after Maggie and Josh Oldfield decide they no longer operate the landscaping business but if they sold the business
somebody else could apply for a permit it wouldn't be eligible because this particular to a microphone please Sor this particular permit is limited by the original Nursery permit the nursery
permit was issued personally to Robert and Margaret Oldfield so you so there's no the way this bylaw is written the way the Landscaping bylaw is written it's tied to 2012 operation of a landscaping business and it's tied to the way that
landscaping business and and Nursery business was permitted in 2012 the permits for they Nursery were issued many years ago but they were issued personally to the parents because of the very sensitive I think because of the
sensitive location of this business and so that limitation on the nursery permit becomes a limitation on this permit on on the Landscaping permit and so the reality is that you cannot continue this
landscaping business beyond the either well I say the working life of Maggie ofield of of any child of Margaret and um Robert Oldfield so then so it's maybe so then is this this a the other language the
second paragraph that's taken directly from the language in 2016 special permit okay so it's just general language saying that you know if someone does want to buy the business or they want to operate the nursery they have to apply for separate another permit except that
it turns out in this case there isn't going to be anybody who's eligible to apply for it and I think it's important for everyone to realize that well that's why it's confusing to me that it it it implies in on page nine Section 8 that
it can be done well that that's the second paragraph right paragraph says I get my glasses um the second paragraph says but they have to be eligible to apply for the permit but then you're saying that nobody's eligible so well that's true so it's
just seems confusing to me now I I where are those two sections and I realize you might find them confusing and if you'd like to you could take out the first you know the what take out the first one refers specifically to Maggie and Josh um it's just an interesting fact about this
permit that it it is not something that can continue indefinitely well should we just take out the transfer of property I think we should just take out that whole section transfer property property CU that's going to be up to the
yeah it I mean well first of all you can take it out because this this what you're doing here is you're incorporating by reference all of the findings and all of the conditions in the 2016 special permit there are you've already Incorporated them so if you
prefer not to just not to includ that parag and it is confusing I I understand that okay thank you mayor and since we didn't list everything in the 2016 permit here the question would be why did you choose to list that right right it makes all right thank
you all right so the other thing that take it and take it I say while you're here just because another just what I thought seemed contradictory um on page three number seven it says there are no Wetlands on the premises
and then it continues and then on page seven letter H it says the wetlands delineation and drainage plan remains in compliance Etc so if there's no Wetland on the premises then isn't it just a drainage
plan well the plan is a wet it's a wetland delimination plan in drain that's what it's called um but but if there's no Wetlands then there should be nothing on that plan that's related to Wetlands if there's no truly no Wetlands on the premises well there could be Wetlands off the premises
there something okay all right because there's a lot of drainage that comes onto this property from property above all right um so I and okay all right that um that's fine then that's the reason that is a bit okay contradictory
yeah I was again just confusing but I I saying it could be something off property all right thank you this this is testimony that was given at the heing um by the app yeah okay so if you you know you can leave it out if you want but it was testimony given it
okay okay all right so then on page if you want to go through my my on page um five um the letter was signed by the Building Commissioner Building Commissioner yeah and or ter building commission and then
on page nine um we had this like being clear about the engineer um in other permits yeah I S I
thought the same thing when I read this too so just is it licensed or registered which is the is it do you know which term is right or are they inter I always think of myself as a registered architect but I guess I'm licensed to practice in in uh Massachusetts and
other states right so I don't know if it's interchangeable or not you know this is the language we had in the memory care I think okay then we'll leave it alone or definitely in another permit and in our site plan of approval yeah um and then I thought in C here
that um I know this was something of concern to neighbors so I'm just going to read what this provision is about the these are the decision with some of the
conditions um and as Maran said the conditions in the other permits are all included by reference and then this provision so I'm just going to run through these because um of public interest a it says by July
1st of 2025 the applicant shall have their drainage system inspected by their choice of either their engineer who shall be a Massachusetts licensed civil engineer or a town of Milton engineer the inspecting engineer shall attest
that the drainage system is operating as designed by providing a letter to that effect to the planning board prior to application for any renewal of this special permit the applicant shall again have their drainage system inspected by their choice of either the town's
engineer or their own engineer do we need to make that same change here be licensed do you think you might as well put it yeah I would say um so I Julia if you can just copy it
down to the the next engineer who shall be a Massachusetts licensed civil engineer wanted to go where just going to copy copy it okay and then put it down let's see
1 2 3 4 five lines down from there after the words their own engineer yep right there after that yeah and the inspecting engineer shall attest that the drainage system is operating as designed by providing a letter to that effect to the planning board so what this does is by July 1st
of this year and then at the renewal um times the uh again so that's what we spoke about but that's included there and then in letter B the applicant shall remove posts remaining from the relocation of the sound attenuation
fence to ground level C any Evergreen Landscaping that is in poor condition along the Parkwood Drive Lot line shall be replaced with similar plantings at the next available growing season such that the plantings provide visual screening and dust control is it only
Evergreen plantings though or is it plantings in general I think I think it's all Evergreen Landscaping okay because it's designed to um it's designed to block view all year round so that that's my recollection anyway and
so that's why it's specifically Evergreen it doesn't just mean tall trees it can mean smaller bushes but they're Evergreen um and then D this special permit is for a term of 3 years from the date of this decision I just have a thought just because we
don't have Clarity on size of these plantings now maybe similar plantings means not only similar in plant species but similar in size but for the benefit of this do you think we should say that they should be replaced with similar
plantings of similar size of similar size or greater um sure well I thought of that I mean what if arbores grow to be 20 ft High how you going to place a 20t high Arbor that's true too you know I mean things areow I mean I walked back there things are growing pretty well back
which was in the 2019 renewal permit again to provide a little clarity about when you had to replace plantings yeah again those F those conditions are Incorporated by reference into this decision but because this is a specific
topic of discussion during your hearing it's a specific condition and it brings attention to the fact that there were complaints that some some plantings along that lot line have died or are not in good condition and that they must be replaced by the next planting season so
the issue about exactly what they should be what is it's actually in the is in the original it's in the conditions for in 2019 that it can be something similar and the reason for that is you might plant one thing in 2016 it turns out doesn't do that well in that shady
location you shouldn't have to plant the same plant over and over again and have a die you want to plant something that's pleasing in the sense that it provides the protection and is nice to look at and so that's why you say similar you don't say exactly the same and you don't say exactly the same size either because
you're planting something new and it's going to grow and I thought the clarifying language here is we want to make sure it provides the screening and D yeah so right that's that implies a certain size too certain size and a certain closeness a certain how filled
out it is right yeah that's probably that's probably better than any other stipulation on size because then if it if something else dies then and a doesn't provide screening then they need to that makes sense put it back in okay
that makes sense so I you want to get rid of the uh similar size or greater yes I think so and then we want to eliminate the transfer property yeah the whole the whole paragraph there so there's no
section eight anymore you are all yes yes okay and then you can remove the highlights that I put in I think in a few places Julia [Applause] [Applause]
that's there yeah it's okay so that's good did did anybody else have any you guys hit the what I you guys um address those all right so then will you take a motion Meredith yes I would
entertain a motion all right I'll make a motion um to approve the um special permit for landscaping business use and site plan approval for 270 Hillside Street and0 and 24 Forest
Street uh Joshua Oldfield and Maggie Oldfield applicants um uh as written in the decision um reviewed and edited tonight I'll second that okay before we take a final vote did we make are we
sure on page five that we put in Building Commissioner in there Julia did you catch that I just oh yeah we want to make sure that's I just interim Building Commissioner inter yes interim Building Commissioner rather than inspector there's some other I
think yes it's in there okay that was that was from your okay great and then we'll UNH highlight the the accept all the changes and accept all the changes y all right so we have a motion in a second I just wanted to make sure
we yeah I mean if you want to just I think be before we sign it we can just make sure that those things are in Incorporated [Applause] properly okay so motion a second um then
a vote all in favor I I great thank you all thanks M how will that that decision do we need to come and sign it at some point we'll need to come sign yeah all right yeah and Julia will let us know when it's ready to Signature yes and it
has on the back of the decision at the bottom bye thank you good night at the bottom it's it's just the four of us signing yes and but we'll come in and sign okay so I don't know if we'll have it um maybe at the next meeting next
meeting maybe the next meeting we could possibly sign it so um I can print it out right now if you want um because the next meeting is remote are you are you in the office Julia yes yeah yeah yeah let's sign it before we leave let's do
it if you if you don't mind Julie that'd be great I don't think talk about efficient tonight go okay all right good night um yeah Julia that's great if we can print it um and then I would entertain a
motion to adjourn I'll make a motion to adjourn the meeting second second it all in favor I than e