--------- Um, all right, let's get started. Uh it is 7:06. So I'll call the March 2nd uh meeting of the Milton School Building Committee to order. Uh as we typically do, we'll do a roll call vote, a roll
call attendance of uh who's here. It's been a little while since our last meeting. Apologies. Um so in the room, uh Mark Luring here. Uh online we have uh Tim Lumbard. present.
>> There we go, man. Uh Glenn Hoffman >> here. >> Uh Nathan Hut >> here. >> Uh Dr. John Wen >> here. >> Uh Scott Terish >> present
>> and myself. I can just check and I got one more person who just jumped in there with me. I'll let you mark. >> All right. Um, first second thing on our agenda. Somebody might come in the doors. >> There you are.
>> Oh, certainly. Okay. Uh second thing on our agenda is citizen speak. As we reserve the first 15 minutes of our meeting for any citizen that would like to speak, uh we ask that you limit your uh discussion while they're speaking for
30 minutes. And please state your names. So give it a second. And just see you only have one attendee on there. So, not seeing any hands, so we'll move on. Uh, agenda item number three or approval
of our past meeting minutes December 15th. Uh, so I sent a draft copy of those around for everyone to view. Uh it didn't have the attachment on it, but the attachment was the MSBA slides uh that we looked at last time. And if once the final minutes are approved, I I'll
attach those to it. I will make a motion to approve the miss I'm sorry the building committee minutes for December 15th. >> Is there a second? >> I'll second.
Any discussion? Hearing none. Um we'll do a roll call vote uh with folks in the room starting first. Mark Luring. >> Yes. >> Uh Tim Lumbard. >> Yes. Uh Glenn Hoffman, >> yes. >> Nathan Hut, >> yes.
>> Scott Terishack, >> yes. >> And then Shauna work. Yes. Right. Um on to item four, just blow up the agenda for a uh new business discussion MSBA
module 2 forming the project team overview. So, um, in short, congratulations to everybody. As of last week, we graduated out of module one that we started a while ago and now we're on to module
two. Um so module two is if I'll share my screen just uh send requests to them. Yes. interesting operating on two computers for module. So it as we're familiar but just sharing mainly for the public and
people that may not be aware. So the process with MSBA is constructed a number of modules. We just finished eligibility period which was module one. We're going into what's called module two forming the project team. We're essentially onboard an owner's project
manager which we're going to get in the weeds on tonight. And then after we onboard an owner's project manager, we work with them and MSBA to uh hire an architect uh through a designer
selection panel. Uh the designer selection panel is made up of 13 appointed people through MSBA and three uh town appointed people and through that um that process an architect gets
selected. The onus project manager one is different. We're for lack of a better word in control. We're going to develop a selection committee tonight. Uh run through some of the criteria and all that. So the difference between the two is one as a designer selection committee
that has the majority of MSBA people on it. The owner's project manager and uh we're we're pretty much in control of it. The one thing I note on on these modules I want everyone to pay attention to is you know eligibility period. A lot of people did a lot of work up front.
Um, and as you see by the color code, that work is typically all done by the district uh forming the project team. If you notice, it's half blue, half green because the construction professionals start coming on now with the OPM and the
architects. So, a lot of our work or at least the leg work we've been doing for the past, you know, uh, 6 to 8 months, uh, is lightened now. And now, you know, we're turning it over to kind of construction professionals. From there, uh, we'll go into our feasibility study,
which we can talk about in future meetings. Schematic design, and then when it comes back to this group, um, is, I believe, module five, which is funding the project, which is when we get to a final cost, and we present it
to the town. Um, that is basically a simple overview. Like I said, we're going to jump into uh further um further detail on the OPM selection and everything. So, don't just pause there
on that agenda item. Just see if anybody has any just highlevel questions before we dive into the other stuff. Seeing none, just make sure nobody else has popped in. Nope. All right. Agenda item number 4B which
is new business discussion possible vote MSBA module 2 OPM selection committee. All right. So for those of you who've been on school building committee for a while, this is like going back in time
about two years. Um so Glenn, I think you were on the original selection committee when we did the OPM selection two years ago. Correct? Yes, I believe so. >> Yep. So, th this process is going to be
similar, but I think we're gonna So, what it is, and I'll just state it more for for people that aren't aren't familiar. Um, we're we're working on or the selection committee is going to have to work on what's called an RFS, a request for services. Um, that request
for services is going to highlight a number of things that we're looking for OPMs to provide. And then we're going to weight each one of those criteria with percentage points. So in short, when these um requests for
submitts come in, requests for services come in as proposals, we'll have to take each of those and then create a short list and then from that short list, we'll invite that short list in here essentially for face-toface interviews.
Um the the simp different than last time. I think there's going to be a lot more uh responses. I think last time we we advertised and we only got three responses. So, it was, you know, an immediate short list. We didn't really have to do that much to create a short
list, but I I I know from other ones that are going out here right now or similar ones for other towns, they're getting six to seven, sometimes eight. Uh so it's gonna it's the the committee that's going to have to be formed to
dive into this. Uh it will take a little bit of work once those come in and the timing on that is going to be very crucial. So um let me pause there just to see if anybody has any initial questions before we dive into kind of the selection criteria.
Cruising right along Um, so let me pull. So essentially for the request for services, uh, similar with everything we're going to find with MSBA, they have a template for it. And essentially for that template, and I'll
I'll I'll see if I can pull it up real quick. It provides a basic outline, narrative, and then we fill in the blanks. And another thing just popped up.
Share again. So what they do here is they give you know their boilerplate uh template that they have here. That just jumped. Um and then essentially they highlight and italicize
areas that the town needs to identify or update uh with specific text. Um, one of the ones that we'll have to talk about either tonight at our next meeting before we issue this, uh, is total
estimated project costs uh, of the of a potential project. So, with our with our options that we're looking at, I think this value is going to range a bit from a very low number to probably a very high number. Uh, mainly because we have to look at a renovation.
um background, you know, we're allowed to give some layout here for this. The I we have started populating some of this just to give a head start for for us to to get ahead. And I'll see if I can pull that up real quick.
Stop sharing for a minute. A hand raised just, you know. >> Oh, yep. >> Oh, yeah. Nathan, go for it. >> Hey, Sean. Um, I was wondering in the paragraph you just showed us with the the dollar range that I think was describing the potential total project
costs. Um, how do we how do we derive those numbers? >> I would say go back to what you just talked about.
Let's see. template. >> So yeah, let's focus on this one because I think this would be a good discussion right now. So what we have for options that we need to look at are we have an
ad renovation to the Kottham school that we need to look at. Uh we have a construction of a new elementary school with an enrollment I believe of 495. And then we have a construction
an elementary school with preschool. And then we have a construction of an upper middle school grade seventh and eth with preschool. Um so for those three options we'd have to look obviously I believe or my anticipation would be the middle school seventh and eth with preschool
would be the highest. I think that's probably the most concerning one right now. Well, not most concerning, but the the will come in as the highest number and with the work that we did previously, we have a pretty good handle on what that number was. So that number
uh just for everyone's understanding, it was 173 million in 2024. Um, so for these ranges, I'm I'm I'm assuming that's going to probably be our high range or 173 million plus two years of escalation, whatever that number we
agree to, that will be the high number. Um, the low number, I think we need to look at it a little bit. um you know discussion now if we want to get into what we think a a renovation uh or a new elementary school would be whatever we
think would be the the lower end of that we're not going to be held to these so they're not they're not budgetary numbers but it's it's something there to give the OPMS a feel for you know what the range of the overall project could be
>> Got it helpful um and I'm I'm fine we don't have But I up to you if you want to talk about it tonight or not. It sounds like it's more uh complicated than just a potential square footage number multiplied by the going rate for commercial renovation
or commercial new construction. They're looking for something with more precision. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's like I said, it's I I from what I from what I see on that contract, it's a ballpark number to to
get certain um OPMs interested uh based on project size. So, if it if it was a $5 million to a $10 million job, it might attract a certain amount of people, but if it's a $50 million to $173 million project, it's going to
bring out a lot different u um people, too. And I I I think it'll deal probably with some some of their financial capacity to to to to handle that too. >> Gotcha. >> Okay. Let me uh let me just pull up what
I had for the online one to just to give everybody kind of a preview of what What we've been working on so far, too. So this similar um RFS template that was there and then what what MSBA asks you
to do is take it and um keep track changes on so they can see what's added what's deleted uh above and beyond any of the bold italicized text. Um, so myself, um, town administrator Nick Milano and Mark Luring have, you know,
started, you know, pushing through some of this to start building it in and highlighting similar to what you were just talking about, Nathan. Um, parts that are are are to be determined right now. Um so you know as the committee gets formed or the selection committee
um this will get finalized and you know they'll be required to kind of review it make sure they're okay with it. The key thing that I think that's that we want to kind of dive into is rather than a lot of the front end stuff and the history of the project and goals of the
project which we took from the statement of interest um is the selection the evaluation criteria. So this basically is what the OPMs will
be weighed against. So, and I believe what we did is we we we almost used a very similar template to this before when we onboarded new OPM and what we're trying to do is you use the same criteria points that we were doing
before. So, I'll just walk through those just for everybody so we can see it. So, past performance of the respondents. So, basically the history on on MSBA funded projects across the Commonwealth. Uh we're weighing that one at 25 points and
and we can push some of these up, pull some of them down, however, however this committee feels. Um this second one, I believe there's 12 of these points. Uh thorough knowledge of the state building code, that's at five points, which is
basically the lowest number that we're giving there. So it's just like a baseline. Uh this one I find important. thorough knowledge of Commonwealth's construction procurement laws, regulations, policies, and procedures as amended by the 2004
2004 construction reform laws. So, um that's including, you know, experience with construction manager at risk, which is a different contractual method right now than design bid build or design build. Um, one of the other ones I
wanted to put on here too is is talk about u filed subbid requirements which are trade sub bids that have to go in. Uh, and they're different with uh design bid build and CM at risk. But for this
one, um, it would be good to have a CM that is is wellversed in that one. So, this is one that I I I would even consider bumping some points up. Um but and then trying to figure out which other one we take down but to just keep
going. Um the next one had 15 points associated with it which is uh call it second highest which is management approach uh which would be critical for this to bas because this will be a complex project. Um, so this is one
where we look for the OPM to basically, you know, describe how how they're going to manage your project. Um, mitigate certain certain risks that we know are out there and um, you know, execute it properly.
15 is key personnel. So, as with any proposal, they're going to provide an organizational chart of the team that's going to be deployed to execute this project. Uh so you know working through that or having a confidence in that
organization chart um you know I I would agree with the 15 points. Uh number six five points capacity and skills. Um you know I think that's uh pretty generic for identifying existing
employees by number and years of experience. They'll kind of play into their org chart. Uh number seven is identify respondents current projected workload for projects estimated to cost in excess of $1.5 million
five points. So I think this kind of plays in with that that number I was talking about earlier, Nathan, of you know, if we see that they have a lot of very large projects going on and they're capacity as an overall organization may be limited and now they're trying to
take on an additional call $150 million project. Um that that just may be something that we want to question them on if they make a short list or something like that. Um, number eight is for five points. Familiarity with MSBA's green schools
program. So, it's basically just for a lot of this, this one will probably be important with the adoption of the town into the stretch code. Um, number nine again for the five points is thorough knowledge and demonstrated experience with life cycle cost
analysis, cost estimating, and value engineering. Um, again, knowing some of the costs on the projects are going to be high, this may be one we'd want to um, uh, bump up and see what what type
of unique things they can come up with. Um, another one, uh, knowledge and purpose or practices of, uh, building commissioning consultants. Um, that one I'm agnostic on.
And then number 11, coming to the end, experience in providing presentation activities, internships geared to students that showcase and promote career opportunities in design and construction and project management field. Um, that one I'm fine keeping
low. And then, uh, the last one, 12, is financial stability. Um, so I've got, you know, if we want I got a spreadsheet that basically has these all added up. So, if we want to change any of these,
uh, we can adjust them as as needed. Um, but I just wanted to kind of offer these up for everybody so they can take a look at them. So just just summarizing there past performance knowledge of the building code procurement knowledge
um all of these so it's you know if we want to change any of this stuff from you know simple uh rounded to the fifth rounded to five um we can do that or we can just keep it as is. I'm I'm fine with however the committee wants to go.
>> John, can you restate the one you were thinking about modifying the score on? Uh, yep. That was for um uh procurement knowledge filed sub bid cm at risk. It's it's basically if if we decided to go
for an alternate delivery other than design bid build. But if we don't if we're not considering it then we can just keep that low and not worry. And Scott, sorry I didn't see your hand up. Thanks Sean.
I think a lot of these are are almost redundant in a way. You know, they I think the ones we have weighted heavily are are probably the proper ones. It all comes down to the team and their experience and their approach. So,
um one, four, and five, you know, if you get the right team with the right company, all the other ones are going to fall in place. They're they're automatically going to know how to do everything else. So, >> yep. I like the way it's weighted right now. I don't think I'd change it other
than moving those three around a little bit, but that's it's I think that would be insignificant anyway. >> Okay. Wow. >> I disagree with Scott. I even capacity and skill to me is, you know, capacity of key personnel and the skills that
those personnel bring just is it all just seems pretty connected. So yeah, >> I think this rating system heavily weights kind of the the stat numbers that are going to be in front of us that we're going to be looking at in terms of the European knowledge and experience. So to me that's the most important thing
and we give significant weight to that. >> So that's right. >> I I think the field that we're going to interview especially when we narrow it down this is not going to be a key differentiator. >> They're all going to be equally weighted in that regardless. So I think it's good
to keep that um lightly weighted so that we can focus on other categories. >> Yeah. >> Do we hear a motion? Just >> the motion to approve the >> I don't know.
>> No, I don't think Well, we need to approve the whole RFS at some point. So actually, let's table that then. Yeah, >> because >> yeah, I think we have consensus that this looks good. >> Yeah, I think we I I but I think it'll be up to the whatever the committee is
at that point to just read through whatever's here, finalize it, and approve it as as this the selection committee, not committee. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, it's going to be in the RFS and we have to get that approved. We need to vote on that and get that approved by MSBA. So we'll need
to approve it in the context of the overall RFS. >> Correct. >> But I thought the the approval of the RFS was by the selection committee, not the whole school. >> No, it's by Yeah, it's by the
>> We might be able to delegate that responsibility. No, that's so I'll share with you what I was looking at, but um >> yeah, my note from the training was that was final RFS should be approved by the SBC. >> Do you want to take over and talk about
what you learned on the training, too? >> I you can do that whenever you're ready for it. But >> yeah, that that was basically end of the RFS. So, for the most part there uh at the end of it, it's just uh uh static stuff. There wasn't much much
else on there. And what what I'll do is I'll forward this around to everybody after the meeting. Uh this is kind of just like a live working document and then I'll get it to everybody after. So part of part of this was um so after
the meeting we had with MSBA, we went through um their board meeting for the approval and then following that meeting there was a uh module 2 training u uh presentation
that was provided. I I was not able to attend that but Mark was able to attend that. Um so I'll let Mark talk a little bit about um what he learned. >> Yeah. Um it was helpful. Uh essentially this is the the selection of the OPM
process as Sean already kind of talked about is one of the last big steps that this committee needs to take and drive in terms of process because once we get the OPM as was kind of the case when we had the OPM last time they really helped drive the selection of the architect
process and the MSBA people were even like we're probably not going to talk to you after you get the OPM on board so this is the only time we'll be really engaging directly with them. um outside of kind of through the OPM. So they kind of were very much walked through kind of
that portion of the process with the module 2 because that's the biggest piece we will drive until the OPM drives through us. Um Sean talked a lot. They talked through the RFS a lot and big pieces were really there's not a whole lot we're allowed to edit. We allowed to edit those very specific sections. So uh
they were very clear about that. Um once we have this and the board um the SBC will vote on the RFS uh to say it's good, we have to send that back to the MSBA. The MSBA has to review it, give us any notes. We'll
probably do that before we vote on it. We'll have a draft, send that to them. They'll give us any notes. We'll make any edits. They kind of have to give us the thumbs up on it before we utilize it. Um, from a timeline perspective, they said they need that at least two weeks before we're hoping to kind of place an ad. Um, because similar what we
did last time, we have to place an ad in the central register, which is like state procurement site, and then an ad in the local paper um or a local paper. Um, so that's kind of like the next after we get the RFS, it's the next step
in the process. Um, and then Sean walked through kind of a lot of stuff there. I do have um a quick timeline I can share. Let's do this. So, I just sent out these slides
um moment ago, which are full slides. They show up. There we go. Um the full slides of the whole kind of presentation. I'm not going to go through the whole presentation for you, but this was one of particular interest where it was the um planning dates. So
all the dates really driven off of this uh OPM panel. So essentially our job is to go through this entire procurement process where we again uh go out to bid get a bunch of bids from OPMs are interested uh you know qualifications
from a bunch of OPMs short list those bring that short list in for inerson interviews uh make a selection and then ultimately kind of negotiate with that selected OPM and have them sign a contract. But before we can sign a contract with them,
we have to go in for what's called the MSBA procurement panel. Um the OPM like procurement panel. And the MSBA has those panels only once a month. And they only have two spots per
uh month for a project to kind of go through and they are already booked up through June. So this really is the piece that is seems to be driving kind of our timeline. They said we should expect to kind of be able to hit July, August or
September. That is kind of the time frame that they shared. Obviously our hope is to get in July, but it's a very much um first come first serve. Is that the you you're referencing the first column LPM RPM dates July 13th which means our draft
RFS needs to go in by April 23rd or are you saying that our draft goes in in July for an October OPM RPM date? >> No, no, no. Yeah, the table is a bit odd and that the end date is on the far left and then all the other dates that lead up to that are after that.
>> Okay. So, we are looking at an April 23rd date. >> Yes. to achieve the July award. >> That is again, but that assumes that no one else that there aren't two other communities who don't get it in before the April 23rd date. So really the
feedback is get your RFS in as soon as possible because it's a first come first serve situation. The latest we can wait is the April 23rd date. And that's again taking the RFS and giving it to our project coordinator for the MSBA in order to get their insight and approval.
And then you can see kind of two weeks after that uh is the May 7th day for the ad being placed. Uh and then the following week it's in the showing up in the central register and then two more weeks we should uh get
responses back from OPMs and then kind of three more weeks to uh kind of review the whole process and select one. Um so that that is kind of the timeline uh as they are recommending it. >> Nathan, sorry.
>> No, no, go for it. >> Um Mark, the let's say we don't get in, we don't get the procurement panel date until August 3rd. Can we begin the RFS process and get bids and
all of that um just to give ourselves more time or can we not even begin anything until that second column date? >> Yeah. So all those dates within that column are are like kind of last the
latest we could possibly do it in order to meet that date in the first column. So to answer your question, we can start sooner. we could complete everything by July 8th. Um, and you know, we might still get kicked out September 14th just
because the other communities may have already gotten it in as of today. We just don't know. Um, >> got it. >> So, that that that's a big piece is kind of that timeline. Um, and again, that's like in the scheduling document that I shared out.
Uh, >> a lot of the other stuff is again just stuff we luckily already kind of did which is the whole short listing process and >> utilizing questions and >> yeah that's that's guys that's our head start and I mean we've already gone through this we already have the
template we have our scoring you know the the document I was just sharing with you has 90% of everything that we need on there. Um, so there there was one other one and I just want to I want to make everybody aware that this is on
there too. So let me just share my screen again. Sorry I keep jumping back and forth. Um, so in in the description that we give, we give a potential approved project, a description of what we're doing. So, um,
I want to make everyone aware that a potential approved project may include a renovation of the existing school, which we submitted on Cunningham, a renovation and an addition to the existing school, a renovation and an existing of a
nonchool building, and or a new construction. So with some of those options, um we we've included uh this additional text here. Uh I'm sure some of you heard Live Array is potentially
for sale. Um so by adding by adding this additional language in it, it leaves that as an option to so we can consider Laboray. uh if it if if the town, you know, came to the fact that it wanted to purchase it and did purchase it, um by
having this language in there, it allows us to still look at that as an option. Um I think if we didn't have that on there, um we can look at labor, but it would have to be a full tear down for a new construction. So, this just gives some opportunity to dive into a little
bit. Um, but like I was saying, the majority of everything that we needed here is pretty much done. And I'm hoping essentially by our next meeting, we can have this finalized, ready to vote uh, and execute the
so they have this, have you seen this, Mark? The the guidelines for bringing on OPM. So the one thing that where I was talking about it here uh they they talk about forming an OPM selection committee which I thought was
a shorter >> portion of the overall school building committee. >> So the OPM selection committee is who we define it to be. There's no requirement from the MSBA on what that needs to be other than it has to have the MCPO
designated person on it >> whether they're a voting member or not. But otherwise it could be the full committee. It could be a subset of the committee. We can determine and we can also my understanding is we can also determine that you know as we did last
time we have a smaller subset work through and create the short list and then bring the short list people to the full committee. Um so yeah so that that is it but the the vote on the RFS I think is a generally a full board thing.
Again I think we as a board could delegate it to that subcommittee if we wanted to. Yeah. >> Yeah. Sorry, I was just going Yeah. black and white by what I was saying there. >> Yep. >> So, for the folks on the call, um, you know, to create that short list, um,
let's is everybody on board that they can review all the submitts that come in, score them, provide those scores in a meeting, and then um, you know, uh, have that done. you know, it in a timely
turnaround when it comes around or do we want to delegate it to say all the all the all the board members or the committee members that are that are not here tonight and make them the subcommittee and assign them this role. But um I'm kidding. But the um you know
you know Glenn you you knew it was a lot of work last time just to get to that short list and I think that was like three respondents where this time you know I mean we'd have to go through and I think there's checking references there's and it won't all fall on one
person but I think you know we might want to break it out a little bit or figure out how we divide and conquer when they come in. >> No, I think you're right. under the MSBA process, we're going to have more submissions. So, it's going to be more work. So, at least a couple more hands,
I don't think would be a bad thing. >> Yeah, let's let's just keep it the whole committee then. And then you know not not everybody has to review each and every one. But I think what we can do is based on those u selection criteria maybe assign teams or to dive into
different parts of different um submitts and you know dive into certain things rather than try each person trying to run through seven proposals on their own. >> I don't know. My only concern with that is that you're not able to
>> score it >> compare. Yeah. >> Totally. Consistency within that. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I think I think Yeah. >> I almost think you know it's it's going to be a lot of work for whoever does it. I almost to me think it's a delegating
this to a group of three or four people so that they can dive in. they can like look at all of them, review them and kind of align on like that is essentially the small team but they are able to still look at all kind of figure three to seven responses whatever way they do. >> Yeah. >> My recommendation
>> keep in mind too I don't want to say some parts of the reports aren't as important but some parts of the important report aren't as important. You know a lot of these submissions there's a lot of fluff at the front end. Um >> so we can kind of identify and it's and it's all formatted you know as MSBA
requires it to be. So we'll know where the actual substance is once we go through one or two of them. I think that'll speed it up a little bit as well. >> Agree. So, one of one of the things that um that was helpful at um so, as you
guys know, I I'm on the board of directors with CMA, Construction Managers Association, and at the conference last year, they were talking about using AI to compare uh proposals and to see who is generating content
using AI, >> right? So, a lot of the a lot of people know I'm just putting generic stuff in there, running AI, and just just throwing a lot of stuff at it. You can do back reviews of these and compare some of them to see, you know, who's
using AI and who's not. Um, so there there was I'm going to go back to that presentation to see because it might break down some of the leg work that people have to do right now to just basically really that dive and compare and contrast if if we get a lot of them.
>> So I I'll look at that Sean. I mean, I don't know if this is forbidden to say given what you just said, but I think we should use AI to our advantage to evaluate proposals. We'll have a rubric.
We'll have detailed proposals. Um, and that might be a way to fasttrack evaluation or lower the overall burden if we're asking every member to review every proposal. >> No, 100%. I I I think I think that might be
a a way of streamlining, you know, the review for some of the people like have an AI consolidated review of each proposal, look at what those notes are that come out of it from that and then um weigh,
you know, weigh those um but you know that that conference was encouraging uh owners to start, you know, using AI in in that format. that um again to see what is actual true content that was developed you know organically and not
stuff that was just generated through AI and popped on popped on the proposal. So question gets to be is it the whole committee or is it a smaller version? So Mark's take is a smaller component say
three to four people. Um I'm open I'm I'm open to whatever people want but I also want to be respectful. I know there's a lot of people that have a lot of volunteer work and stuff already on their plate with the town. So I don't
want to overburden people too. Yes. club. >> Sean, just wondering if this this is something that needs to be decided now or >> is this something, you know, we could see how many responses we get and then the selection team can be uh put
together based on the number of responses we get maybe. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I mean from from what you're saying with MSBA, it's kind of up to us how we administer it, right? Or is it >> Yeah, it's up to us. We just we have to be clear on what the criteria is and the
criteria could be we look for volunteers. We've going for volunteers. Um >> so I don't know if we have to list members. I can't >> one other thing. So let me just again share my screen one
time. There was there's been a lot of documents. This is this all of this stuff is on MSBA's website. So if you go under their OPM one. So at the end of the selection I think when we we approach that committee that Mark was
talking about. Oh and on the pause right there, Mr. Milano, you're recognized. >> Thanks. I on that question I would probably expect MSBA to want to know if it's the full committee or not. So I don't think kind of being a little
wishy-washy on that. That's processdriven thing that will just jump out to them. So I would suggest the SBC decide through drafting the RFS if it's going to be the whole full SBC or subcommittee. I think that question does need to be resolved now and couldn't
wait until the proposals come in just MSBA and how they uh react to things. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Because I was looking at at the end too. There's a narrative that we need to fill out for MSBA that basically walks through of how a selection
committee was formed uh who was on that committee roles, titles, uh the procurement administrator, issuing the requests for service, how the reviews were receives were received,
um listing all of them out here. So it's big you know the process by which we went through before while we did it internally here with the town um everything here with MSBA we is is going to be required to be uh much more
detailed documented for what we're doing and how we're coming up to it uh because all this will get submitted as part of the package back. Um so to Nick's point and Nick I apologize I didn't know you were on. I thought I thought that was just uh the the uh webinar thing on
there. Um so I I think you know for us we should decide whether it's tonight or at our next meeting uh if it's going to be a smaller u uh component of school building committee and knowing we're
missing um we've got three four we're missing I think four other members of maybe five other members we might want to wait to make sure we have uh larger participation before we may sign up people for or not for for other stuff.
Um because if we are going to do a a smaller committee, I don't want to just limit it to people here tonight, not allow others to volunteer, too. So, but what I'd say is let's let's table it and when we get to our future
meeting that's that's going to dictate a little bit further what I what I probably when we'll want to meet again. So with that one, as far as the request for services, the discussion
from the OPM, um yeah. Yeah. I think I I think right now the the two key things we're going to have to do is one, finalize the RFS. Like I said,
we're we're pretty much 90% there. So by the next meeting to have that fully finalized and then the second is a discussion of whether it's the entire school building committee or subcomponent down that does the reviews for the short list
uh and develops that. Any other questions or discussion? So I'll move on to item five uh future meeting dates uh discussion. So, um, just just based on on that on that on stuff we were just talking about, you
know, I mean, I know it's a lot tonight, you know, going, you know, putting our foot back on the gas again. You know, our last meeting was in December. Um, I think it would be good, you know, a after this meeting to touch base again in two weeks, which would be March 16th.
Um, and just check around the room to see it's the day before St. Patrick's Day. >> I will not be there. No. Oh, okay. >> I will not be in person or you know we that's my music season. So >> Oh, gotcha. Gotcha. >> I have seven consecutive days of music.
>> I will I'll talk to you before just on that subcommittee. We'll volunteer. >> Um but that would be for you. 16th online 16th look good for you guys too. Scott, Nathan, John. Uh well we now have
a school committee should have a shortened but we had a um meeting on the se 16th I'm sorry 17th or >> day I'm very much in flux we try to put together college tours and it's really
difficult to so I may or may not be >> I don't know what we follow on >> do we just aim for the ne the following week then >> uh Yeah. >> Same things, Sean. I'll let you know. We're dependent on football coach
schedules which are very in flux. So, it's kind of the >> No problem. >> Monday. >> If if you can't be here, we'll just volunteer you. You know how it works. >> Actually, no. You know what? You make a great point. I can probably I can I can call in though. You're right.
>> Yeah. That shouldn't be an issue. >> Okay, >> that should be fine. I just won't be in person. >> No, that that's fine. Dr. Redden, is that okay with you? 23rd? >> Yes, that works. >> Okay. And Scott, Nathan, thumbs up.
>> Yep. >> Okay. >> 16th or 23rd either work for me, >> right? Yeah, we'll hold the 23rd. I I don't want to I don't want to uh crowd uh school committee, you know, with their obligations they've got going on right now. So,
all right. Um yeah, I I think that about wraps us up. So, item item number six is a journal. >> Sean, real quick, it's Nick again. Um not to be that guy, but should we just >> alternatively should just say give it a week, reconvene, get this thing
approved, and get into MSBA just to stay on the radar? I think >> oh the >> I don't know that we need we definitely don't yeah we definitely don't need three weeks but I don't want to force everybody's hand to say next week but by I mean it's pretty tight if we were to distribute it in the next day or two give everybody a
few days to look at it and think about how to handle the selection process maybe we could just be done with it if we moved it up rather than moving it back >> I like that idea >> yeah I didn't think Yep. So, next Monday work, sorry.
So, yeah. Yeah, let's aim for next Monday then and they'll give it I I'll send out what we have for the draft of the RFS now. Um and then um yeah, and then ideally we can get the
committee formed the RFS approved. Nick, do you know if the RFS needs to be approved by that committee? So essentially even if we meet next week, we don't have a committee formed. It can't get approved until that committee is formed.
>> No, I would I would view it since it's a subcommittee of the SBC ultimately SBC control. So I think the school building committee just needs to vote to approve it and that should be sufficient in my view. >> I I agree with that logic. Yeah. >> Okay. Cool. All right. So next meeting
is next meeting probably next week which would be the 9th 7 p.m. and we can review all this again little little greater detail. Okay.
Anything else before we adjourn that's part of the agenda? Hearing none. Okay. Entertain motion to a jury. I can take >> so moved. >> I can second that. >> Tim seconds. It's the same same as last
time. We'll do a roll call vote. >> Um Mark Luring, >> yes. >> Tim Lumbard, >> yes. >> Uh Glenn Hoffman, >> yes. >> Nathan Hut, >> yes. >> Uh Scott Terishek, >> yes.
>> And myself, yes. Thank you guys very much. See you in a week. >> Thank you. Part: 2
Uh, thanks, Nick. Um, I'd like to call to order the March 2nd, 2026 meeting of the Milton Budget Coordinating Committee. Um, we are we've been having a lot of
conversation about the FY27 budget development process and that is it. We've been discussing that a lot in this meeting and I'd like for us today since since we're almost there with the
town budget and the school budget, I'd like for us to pivot in this conversation um to really focusing back on our overall um financial model, but within that starting to unpack
some of what the school department's model, how that works and um where what things could look like moving forward. Um so I know that and this was a follow-up from
a prior meeting that um Nick and John and Katie and Jay would all have conversations. I think that um Superintendent Failen and Katie have um some information on some of the drivers of the school budget to share with us
today. Um so, so we'll focus the conversation there. Um I don't know if Nick or John if one of you um wants to kick off on that topic. Um but just to I just wanted to make clear
that we're going to we're going to start driving these conversations in in this direction of um modeling and forecasting. >> Have to cover town side briefly. I think um obviously there'll be a lot of
overlap between town schools and and so many you know our budget is largely driven by employees. So, how our collective bargaining shakes out will really determine um what the next couple of years looks like beyond the um beyond
what we can just forecast as estimated. So, all of our contracts expire June 30, 2025. We're in negotiations with all of the units um at various stages of doing so. Um, and obviously trying to hold the line as as much as we can on on what those increases might look like, but
balancing it with, you know, understanding that employ employee health insurance costs have gone up, that we need to stay competitive with our peers and and competitors. Um, and then the other element that I think is important is that we do have a fairly young department um or town departments
rather. There are certainly some town departments where all the employees are at the top step, but the fire department, for example, is hiring five is has five firefighters in the academy now, planning to hire three or four more over the next several months. Police department has several vacancies as well. So, at the outset, those employees
are certainly um less expensive. Um but as they go through the system they start to jump um grades and steps uh pretty quickly and they'll level out but um a young department is less expensive for a couple of years and then it gets kind of to where it should be. Um and then the
other I think broadly the biggest pressure other than snow and ice which is obviously a variable um will be our con our trash collection recycling and disposal. all of those contracts are are assigned through June 30 of 2027.
Um, so we've extended those to have them all come up at the same time to give us the option to figure out where do we want our recyclables to go, where do we want our trash to go, and how who is going to be picking those up. Um, yard waste as well will be a component of that, although that's funded outside of the general fund budget and the storm
water budget. I think um in terms of non- salary expenses, the town departmental budgets are fairly um static on general expenses. The biggest variable over in the immediate kind of next few years will be that trash
collection um disposal recyclables collection disposal contract that you will be working on throughout the course of fiscal 27 have lined up for fiscal 28. However, on the other hand is we do have a trash fee. So, it's an option to consider increasing that or looking at
that differently. Uh, we did just raise that a couple years ago, so want to be cognizant of that. But I there there is a revenue element to that as well. Um, that would push additional costs onto the taxpayers. Um, I think the other thing that we saw with this budget and the information
technology department was just the consolidation of vendors and suppliers on it is putting a little bit of cost on us. So, um Rob Mallet's budget had a jump on the um town IT side. I mean, but we're talking about a half million dollar budget. It's not the biggest budget in the world, but it did have to
go up just in terms of regular um cost of doing business. And then lastly, I think I'll just touch on um not so much a departmental expense, but more um the debt service budget where we do expect a significant jump in debt service in fiscal 28 and then expect that to to be
more steady um in in subsequent years to where we've been historically. Um and the 27 and 28 debt service budget has moved up um just because of a lot of projects all coming to at the same time and a lot of capital acquisitions that may be older and not yet completed are
all going to be completed in the next little bit. So obviously still some variability related to that in terms of what our final interest costs will be, what projects do get over the finish line that we have to pay for now, what equipment does arrive, but we are expecting a decent jump in debt service again in fiscal 28 and then hopefully
it'll um level off a little bit there. Um I think those are kind of the big items, ticket items that I would be looking at and thinking about uh on both the town and the shared expenses side of the house. We've talked a lot about health insurance, but I'll say I can leave that for now.
So I I'll start and maybe you can finish. Uh our biggest driver in the schools um is uh the salary line. It's 81% of our budget. Uh we currently have been engaging in negotiations with our uh educators union. Uh just for the
educators, not we have not started with uh our custodians, food service or the other two parts of our MTA groups, but we will do that this spring. Um it will be very helpful to have that locked down in order to kind of make some more uh thoughtful projections
moving forward. That's a big variable. Uh and um Katie can probably speak better to the increases that I think you've been putting forward around transportation mandates etc. >> Um so if you want to just add to that.
>> Yep. Um so if I can just add on the salary piece. So, um, the majority of our employees, pretty much all of our employees, um, with the exception of self-contract, which is a very small percentage
assigned to collective bargaining agreements in the way that the wages are organized, is that there are step increases as well as cost of living increases. Um, and so when we're looking at projecting out what the increase is
going to be, uh, year-over-year, even if we are making the assumption that we're going to have the same staffing levels, um, our average step increase is about 5%. And then um the cost of living
increase can vary from year to year, but in some years um just speaking historically the step increase and the cost of living increase for some employees was 7.5%. So that's just you know when you
consider that that's 80% of the budget. Um that is a huge budget driver for the school department. Um the other pieces that are non-s salary related, we have expenses that are mandated which include
transportation. So the state says that we're mandated to provide um transportation to students that may live over 2 miles from the school um that they attend. And that's for our students
that are in grades K through six. Um, so that's a cost that we have to incur. We don't have an option. Um, and then we do provide transportation for students that are within the 2 miles or for students in grades 7 through 12, but that's a
feebased service. Um, so that similar to the trash, uh, is something where when we're looking at increases, we also can look at the fees that we're charging our families to try to offset some of that increase year-over-year.
Um, we contract out for our transportation services. Um, so we just recently went out to bed last year. um transportation. We do not have we did not get a great volume of vendors that
um bid on transportation and that is not unique to Milton. That is something that is a pressure that's been kind of felt across the state. Um and so the we are currently in a three-year contract and there is an option to extend for years
four and five. Um, and that increase is an 8% increase year-over-year. We also have mandated expenses tied to tuition um, payments that we pay for some of our students um, that we can't
provide service to in Milton public schools. So, they may attend schools outside of Milton. Um, and so we're mandated to pay for those tuition expenses as well as any transportation expense that we may incur to um, make
sure that the student can um, have access to that school that is outside of um, Milton. the increase for those tuition expenses um for the private
schools is set by the state and so we don't have the ability to negotiate. It's just a a rate that's set by the operational services division in October. Um and so we just need to make sure that we make those adjustments to
the budget every year. Certain schools can also um ask for a rate readjustment and in some instances those schools can increase the tuition rate can increase by 20% in one year. Um
and that's just set by the state. So we don't have the ability to really change or negotiate. Um we just have to make sure that we're building that into the budget so that our budget is reflective of what the true expense is going to be. And then we also just have inflation
adjustments and increases to current annual subscriptions and services. So similar to the town side, we have um a technology budget which we have um different vendors that we utilize year-over-year. We may have contracts
that are multi-year contracts and um there's cost there's adjust inflation adjustments for those contracts and those range anywhere from 3 to 5% on an annual basis. So we just make sure that
we build that into um the budget when we're looking at projecting out year-over-year. Um, typically our another piece of what we look at would be our student population and if there's any fluctuations in the number
of students because some of those subscriptions are based on the number of students, but our enrollment has been pretty relatively flat year-over-year. Um, so we certainly don't have declining enrollment that would cause some of
those costs to decrease. So, that's something that um is also a budget driver um when we look at projections for future years, just making sure that we're taking into account what the student enrollment is going to be.
So I would also add to that that the utilities that had gone up significantly over the last few years that the the projection to the actuals were not really uh connecting those dots weren't connected. Those dots have been connected. Um so we are funding those at
projected at actual levels. Um but that does uh not mean that utilities will continue to be a strong influence on the budget as well moving forward. Uh we also did a survey or Katie did the work of locating every employee on the
pay scale so we can kind of get a sense of what that looks like uh from who's getting to the top of the pay scale and who's in the middle and who's at the beginning. Uh it certainly gives us a little bit of information about who might be maxing out at a certain point being at the top of the scale. Uh therefore those employees do not get the
step in lane increase they just get the cola. So the good news is they're at the top of the scale um and they don't get steps in lanes. The the hard news from a budget perspective is that they're they're the highest paid staff. So it just there's a little bit of um u you
know pros and cons to that. And also for the the um right now we have a considerable amount of uh staff who are uh in the growing family stage and we have a lot of folks out on FMLA and MPLA
which requires uh not only to uh if they have time to they can get paid to utilize their own time uh during that um leave but we also will be hiring folks to fill that. So that processes that so depending on the age, you know, sometimes we go in waves of our staff
being of a certain nature. We're in that wave right now. >> Lots of good news, lots of good families growing and um but lots of corresponding coverage needed to provide the service to students. >> I think those are the drivers.
I should just um just to expand on the utilities piece a little bit is we do have a three-year contract that starts in December. That is a drop in the supply contract for electricity. Um so while our supply cost for electricity
should drop um a little bit um we're still seeing the demand charges that continue to rise. So, um it's good news that we were able to lock in a reduced electricity price for 3 years. That'll start in December of 26 and go for 3 years to December of 29. Um when we were
going to market on um heating um and gas supply, the market was a little crazy, so we have held off on extending that obviously with this winter. That would add to additional uh potential costs there. So, um, at least on the electricity side, we're locked in for
another 3 years at a a lower rate than we were before. Um, on the flip side of, you know, additional cost, source and others, um, just for the demand side. So, on the utilities, I just want to add that additional context. >> See, Winston has his hand up. Come on
in, Winston. >> Thank you. Oh, you guys can hear the voice obviously. Sorry. Um a question for um uh John and Katie on special education. A couple
questions. Um when do you get um a good sense of how much like when and how do you get a good sense of how much your cost is going to be for that year? Uh I'm guessing that you have you know you know your placements maybe coming into one school year and there may be some placements that get added throughout the
year. Um, and then when do you know for one year what your cost is going to be? And then what would be the process as we're talking about budgeting? What would be the process for, you know, kind of making an educated guess for the
growth or fall in that cost year-over-year if we're going to um budget ahead? >> So, I'll do the first part and I'll let Katie do the technical part. We meet every two weeks on that list of expenses and we walk through uh every student's
tuition, every student's uh transportation cost. Uh what their program delivery service looks like. Most of it stays constant. It's a pretty steady list because we have students there from age three to age 22. Uh we do look at what's happening in the district
in terms of meetings that might might be upcoming and that they're potentially going from a service delivery in our school district within uh Milton public schools or needing to go out. We also have folks that are meeting with families in our out of district uh schools um who are starting to do well
in their program and asking that they want to come back to Milton public schools because maybe they've had some sort of a challenge that was met with the unique service delivery outside of Milton but now are wanting to come back and go to the neighborhood school. So there's a little bit of movement there between the ins and the outs. Uh, and
then there's just the students who age out at 22 um in quote graduate from the Milton public schools at that age. Uh, so that's a that's a every two-eek meeting literally because things change within that. Uh, someone might need more services at a school that's outside of the the Milton public schools and that's
added to their tuition. Uh, transportation changes a little bit. Uh, we also have nurses that travel on bands with students and that that is a a moving part. But then but it's a pretty solid number. Winston. I'll I'll let Katie describe how she starts to think about it within a school year or a
fiscal year and how she gets ready for the future fiscal year, which I think might be more in tune to your question. >> Yeah. So, when we budget for the out of district tuition, we do try to do it per student. So, I know um some of the other
business directors or other districts may just set an overall budget and they don't necessarily look at it per at a per student cost. Um but we do try to look at it at a per student cost. We also talk about if there are students
that are currently in district that could potentially be going out of district because we may not currently be incurring that expense. Um but if they are someone that could potentially be doing a 45day
um evaluation in that placement then we know that we may potentially need to budget for it in that out of district line. We do also um when we're creating an upcoming budget for out of district
tuitions, we also do try to take into account if any of the students are aging out um and if there is a corresponding adjustment to their transportation costs as well because some of those costs can be significant. Um, and so we do all of
that hoping that um that there aren't any major changes, but in some instances, usually that budget is created in the fall or the early winter. And then of course there's still 6 months of school left and um there could
be fluctuations of even just one or two students that could have a half million dollar impact to that budget. Um, and so if that does happen, what we try to do over the summer, although the budget has already been appropriated,
that's when we look at the entire school department budget, and just make adjustments if we potentially had some hiring where there was some cost savings. Then we may have to reallocate budget lines from a salary budget line
to another area just to make sure that the budget overall is um more accurate than it was cuz we're just basing it based off of the information that we may have had potentially like 6 months ago. Um and a piece of that of course is some
of the grants um and outside funding that we receive as well. just making adjustments to the allocation and the utilization of those areas. Um that's kind of a piece that we do during the summer just to make sure that when
school opens in September that we feel comfortable that the budget is um updated and accurate to what the student need is going to be. >> But and and I'll add that the and we uh we've talked about this a couple of times that the revenue stream for out of
district funding is federal funding, state funding through circuit breaker and local funds. All those come into one uh one expense line where we try to use those three revenue streams as effectively as we can. Um knowing that we're going to get reimbured sometime in
October for circuit breaker from last year. Thinking about what our bills are for this year. Use those three revenue streams in order to be as effective as possible. And keeping in mind that each one of those revenue streams ends or has to be spent at a certain time. So our local funds have to be spent by July, I
mean by June 30th of every fiscal year. The federal funds can be spent into September of the next fiscal year. And our circuit breaker funds don't have to be expended until the following June of the next fiscal year. So, when we're thinking about flexibility and trying to work those revenue streams effectively
for the year that we're in, right, when we get to this time of year where we're breaking into the second half of the year and certifying the budget a little bit, we're looking at how much of those funds do we want to carry into the next year so we can be confident that we can meet any of the variable needs that Katie described uh that happen over the
course of every school year. Um, remember now we're planning usually in the fall. uh that's almost a year and a half in advance of something that might happen in the spring of the next school year. So there's a lot of moving parts uh to this kind of service delivery. Uh so
other than salaries and to to Nick's point, our non-sary items are pretty st standard. You know, we don't buy that many things. Uh we have technology things. Uh we've got our utilities down pat. Uh the variables are making sure that we can provide the service delivery
to to students and families that need it. uh on the Milton public school side of that that might mean that a child just might need a onetoone aid in order to stay in the district and would rather have them be able to go to school in the near school. So we hire that person to see if that can work. So we take a lot of steps to ensure that we can try to
address as many needs as possible in district before that meeting happens and ultimately they may need to get services elsewhere. >> Yes. So, I was going to ask about um do you encourage um kids to stay within the
district? So, um I grew up with a sister with special needs. She stayed at Milton High until 22. We graduated Milton High together, was very nice. My father was chair of the school committee at the time and gave us both our diploma. And,
you know, he worked tirelessly to keep her in the school system. Um, current day I have a niece who's a freshman at Milton High. She has Down syndrome. So, um, you know, my sister is a huge advocate for her to stay in the district
and so we've been u, my family's been very happy with the special education that um, our family members have received and I think it's hugely important. Um like growing up everybody knew my sister like she came to all of
our games and the same with my niece you know she is on the challenger team she did the um cheerleading so I think it's hugely important to try and keep our um kids in the district and is that like a trend is that what parents are wanting
when they move to town or are they just wanting to move to town to then have their kids go elsewhere? I I think um first of all uh I know those students uh I interact with them quite frequently and the the gift that we get by making
our district more inclusive is a gift to the students that we serve and also the students that uh benefit by having to interact with them and work with them and be part of the coaching and the the integrated sports etc. It's just a good thing. Uh our out of district numbers are actually on the lower side. Uh
they're right now maybe below 50. uh we were at maybe the high 50s when we started. So um the I don't know about any trends because it's really important to the these decisions are made at team meetings with families and teachers talking about what's best for that child
in order for them to be successful uh and be in the least restrictive environment. So we would like to keep as many students as we can. Uh but there are times where students need what they need and then that the district might not be able to provide it. Uh we definitely I feel that the town has done a great job of moving towards an
inclusive model that benefits everybody and um and so I don't I don't I don't know the trend having been here very very you know like six or eight months but I can tell you that the amount of inclusive opportunities in the district is great and uh which comes with expenses on the school side now right so
there's nothing's for nothing but um but it's I would prefer to have students go to Milton public schools get their services here and be part of the community and I'm sure that's what the majority of the parents would want to >> um maybe this is for later in the meeting but I want this uh I I want this
committee to move forward and I worry that like if the committee is looking at the schools and saying we can't do anything till we have a school forecast and if the schools are saying we can't give you a school forecast until we finish negotiations and I don't know
when that could be. I don't want us to spin our wheels. If if you're still in negotiations, maybe we just say assume x% pay increase each year and move along. I that's more of a comment than question, but >> yeah. No, so I I appreciate that, Jay.
Um I so I think I think the point was to we can't have a good conversation about forecasts unless everyone on the team
has a foundation of the drivers. So I think we've covered that today. But I I I think that your um your question is a question I have right now, which is how can we like understanding the very real constraint
of being in collective bargaining on both sides, right? Because we are on on the town side too. Um we have some constraints in having the most accurate forecast we can develop. But what so I guess the
question is what can we do today to start moving in the direction of um putting something together? So like no plan survives first impact, right? like we're the the forecast should
always be like being updated and the my feeling and I think the feeling of others and I I encourage others to to speak up as well is that we would that it it will be a benefit to
everybody in the town and to the decision makers in the town if we have um a model to consistently refer back to year after year. Understanding that there's always variability in the
factors and the drivers, but that we all come from a common base of understanding how things work, where things are um to improve the quality of the conversations that we have when it comes to how we're spending town resources.
That's how I feel about it. I don't know if that's how everybody else feels about it. and and it I just want to validate that that's everybody's understanding of the value of this that this exercise will bring. Um, so I have that question.
I'm going to throw that question back out to everybody. And then my other question really is what is the what can we do today that's of value knowing that we have the constraints that we have in putting together like the perfect
forecast. >> I didn't understand the second part. So the second part is to your point, right? Like we're not we don't have perfect inputs into the model right now because those are still being negotiated, but is there anything else we can do to get the
ball rolling and like have a substantive conversation on models and forecasts? Can we live with an imperfect model knowing that eventually like with the understanding that on XATE
the CBA is likely to be done although you know always knock on wood with that. Um and and we would update the forecast or the model once that CBA is done because that's the input. >> Agreed.
Like I'm comfortable putting placeholders like that in there and just having us develop things because I think the exercise of going through it and putting it together and having consensus across the boards is is valuable in itself.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I totally agree. I mean one example of an assumption that we can't control is health insurance, right? >> So if we go in front of town meeting in May and say this is our forecast, it assumes health insurance will go up 7% per year. Mhm. >> Here's here's the numbers. And then if
health insurance is 10% next year, we can say, remember here was our forecast. Health insurance went up by these many dollars. We didn't expect it. Here's the explanation as to why we didn't hit our forecast. >> Y >> totally fine. I I I totally support that. >> Right.
>> Extrapolate health insurance into salaries or whatever. >> Yeah. I I think if I could just add it would just be like I think that comment is helpful because I think one of our goals was trying to move this along so that
decisions around FY27 weren't too impacted by future assumptions and future planning. But I think that goal has kind of fallen away and the new goal from Jay and I don't want to speak for you is that you would like to have something to discuss with town meeting
in May. So now we need to set >> okay >> perhaps a goal of having something wrapped in consensus by a date in mid to late April. So maybe if in terms of the working the the work of this committee to work towards that might be helpful so
that there's clarity as to what your what you would like to have done and and like to do at town meeting. >> Yes. Yes. Sorry if that was unclear. >> Yeah. So, um, so does it need to be perfect by late April?
>> That's a loaded question. Does it need to be perfect? Of course not. >> Yeah. >> Um, it it certainly doesn't need to be perfect. I I think it needs to be a structure that we can start to lean on and populate the the inputs. I agree with that. >> Uh, over time, it it's going to be an evolving structure that we if we have a
structure, the inputs will come in and out. And I also continue to say we need to learn from looking backwards because we know what we've experienced. So actuals are important in this. If we want to look at what the the general uh landscape looks like for percentages or
increases in certain areas of the town budget or the school budget, we just have to look backwards and see what they look like. Those are real expenses. So those are not projections. That's those are facts, right? So we pay X amount for utilities. We pay X amount for salaries. We pay X amount for technology. Um, and
we can learn from that and um, and decide how we want to how that influences I think you explore as well. >> Okay, >> Mark Loring has his hand up. >> Yeah, thanks. I just want to echo a lot of what's been said, what John just said right there, which is um, you know, and
no forecast is ever perfect because we can't see the future. So, we just got to make some assumptions here. We have to be able to communicate and track clearly what our assumptions are uh so that we can change them in the future if we need to or you know flag for folks why things
are are you know why it's a hard budget cycle because these assumptions were were a little bit wrong um and health insurance is higher or whatever it is. So I totally agree with the point that Jay made on that um and you know we can't let perfect get in the way of the
good. we just we need some type of um budget forecast to guide us and uh again totally agree with John. I think utilizing path uh cost uh to me is just an easy way to like make clear to folks of like
why are we making these assumptions around um you know future costs. Uh it's it's because this is what the town has done. Um, and then we can, you know, if there are particular places within that we want to kind of argue or discuss, you know, whether or not what the town's past practice was was right or not, we
obviously can have that. But I think as a starting place that that's a good one. >> Thanks, Mark. Brian, >> can I just roll back? I have a question on did you say salaries are you're planning them to go up 5% is average?
>> It's built in. So it's built into the steps and the lanes that are in the um the teacher contract. >> The steps go up five like the but the total average is it going up 5%. >> There there are steps in lanes and then there's a cola applied to that.
>> So it's more like 7 and a half%. All all of those combined add up to a a higher percentage than just the four. >> And that's pretty standard among um like other like across districts.
>> Um it Yeah. >> is the same in every school district. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, that is but I think the state average though is like a 3% increase in salaries. >> It's probably the cost of flipping. >> Yeah. >> It's not. >> So yeah. So, not every other public
employee um not every other public employee gets um >> steps >> steps like I don't like in my job like I don't get steps I get like maybe a cost of living adjustment maybe nothing
>> um >> speak to I think Brian when you look at the the average salary increase you may be looking at a data point that reflects the cost of living increase not necessarily the overall increase of salary. >> That's what Desi publishes
>> for its own >> what the average teacher salary is. >> Okay. Interesting. >> I'm pretty sure it's like three. >> Yeah. So, >> I can double check that. >> Yeah. I I would assume that that might be a cola driven number, but I I don't know the data point that you're looking at. If it's just a coladriven number, it doesn't it's not taking into
consideration the steps of lane movement. >> Uh those are mandated. You have to roll those over every year. Uh then that's not a negotiable choice unless you unpack the whole thing. Brian, are you saying like Desi provides some statewide average look at
>> average teacher salary per district per year? >> I think it just depends on what the data source is from Desi because Desi is getting the information from us. So on the end of year report, we would provide what the cola is. So if Desi is just
reporting out the average on that, it's the cola. if they're taking some other data that we're providing to them, then it could be a different calculation. So I think it just >> it's really important. >> You might also want to
>> I'm just putting on my hat from like, you know, 15 years ago, 10 years ago. Um when I I I used to analyze actually the the tables like the steps and lanes and the actual increases
um for the Boston public schools, but also like all of the contracts in the greater Boston area. I think if you took a peek at like Milton's what's in Milton's collective bargaining agreement and what is in other like similar school districts you'd find that the schedule
for teacher um increases based on you know just the career ladder and then the the level of educa. So the career ladder being the steps >> and which is just year-over-year increases and the lanes which reflects
education level or additional certifications whatever is built in there. Um it's I I think that Milton's um framework what's in the CVA is is pretty much in alignment with what um
districts generally have in like that salary schedule that all districts in this area generally have in place and it's like a five to 7% increase. >> So and so >> but it's also the base right? So, we're talking about percentage increases, but
the base is low, right? Like you start off like a like the Milton teachers, their like the step one like first year teacher salary is like so much lower compared to like city of Boston, right?
So, it's like you are getting like big increases, but it's not on top of like a huge salary. So I think that's that's a really important point and when we looked at the data you have to look at where the teachers kind of sit on that scale and
we have teachers we have a pretty wide range of where the teachers are on that scale. So when we talk about percentages, a 7 and a half 7 and 12% increase on someone that is potentially a bachelor's step two is maybe even less
than what a cola 2 and 12% is on someone that's a master's 30st step 25. And so it's it's it's hard to just talk about it generically as oh 7 1/2% 7 1/2% feels like a lot but when you look at the
budget if you just had everyone that was on bachelor's 2 at 7 1/2% that would be a lot less impactful on the year-to-year increase if you have everyone that's just getting a 2 and 1/2% but they're
making mast's 30st step 25 if that makes sense. I know that's kind of technical, but the way that our employees are sitting on the scale right now is just driving our salary increase to average 4
and a half, 5% year-over-year. >> So, so two things. One is in our presentation, we've already provided what the salary would be and the increase would be for salary if we rolled everybody over. This was our fall 5.2% budget and it's actually 4.56%.
So that would be the total increase, steps, lanes, and an estimated cola that we would we're currently negotiating. So we wouldn't say that out loud. Um we also have where every single employee uh falls on that chart that Katie is
talking about, how many are on each chart, what that means. Uh so this is really important >> and that had been missing before, right? My understanding was a couple years ago this didn't necessarily exist or maybe I misinterpreted something I heard in a
hearing, but >> I I'm I'm not sure. All I can tell you is that you have the 18 right now. >> No, but this big that you guys you guys got there. >> Yeah. So, this this is so we use this uh for negotiation purposes. So, when we're trying to evaluate all the different financial pieces of negotiation, this
helps us have a clearer lens into that. >> Um certainly. And we also um contract with a uh a uh vendor called ARCs or they have a new name now, but they actually take every single contract across the entire state and they give us
summaries of every contract u negotiation that's been settled over the last several years and you really get a good sense of what the median and average of all those pieces are. So um and so uh we we do have a low entry um salary for sure um that we're actually
talking about uh in our negotiations. Um but uh negotiations will be a big part of this, but it's very standard. We're not any different from anybody else from a higher percentage or a lower percentage. We're somewhere in the middle. And to to answer the ultimate question, about four four and a half% is
where it all kind of meters out. Some some steps are really big, some steps are really small. Some people at the end just get two and a half whatever the number is. It all meters itself out. >> Okay. Can can I address what Brian might be seeing statewide? So statewide thousands of thousands of teachers every
year high paid older teachers retire. I don't know anything about education but I used to be a benefits actuary. Every year high paid teachers retire. Every year young low paid teachers come into the system. So if you're looking at statewide thousands thousands of people
to me that might explain why the actual amount paid only goes out by cola even though individual people go buy more. And I've asked that about the Milton. I was like why wouldn't this happen? And the answer I get is you know we've got a lot of mid-career people. Answer I get is we hear a lot of we hire a lot of new
hires who have experience instead of new hires right out of school. >> So that may be a reason why Milton looks a little different and just it's it's lumpy. you know, you're going to get a smoothed over the statewide, but you're going to get a lumpier town by town. So, so it might be that what you're seeing
is the in reality the state is going up by the cost of living, but each individual is going up by more except the ones who retire and the ones who are hired. >> But I have to say that I don't think Milton starting salary is especially low. You know, I've lived that. I I feel
like having a 22year-old 23 year old with a bachelor's coming out of college making $60,000 a year with zero experience is actually pretty good. And maybe I just have my um private sector
hat on um and um and they get couple months off. You know, I don't think it's especially low. And I know when you're looking at hiring teachers and young teachers are looking at Boston versus Milton, going to Boston, maybe you get a
little bit more, but it's actually not that much more for um for um a harder, more complicated job sometimes. So, I think that's why suburban towns are actually attractive
to younger teachers. Um, so I don't I wouldn't throw Milton under the bus saying we pay too low. I think we pay um adequate or or even more than adequate. >> I I think that that's subjective. We just look at the data and you know what
the different scales look like across this the communities around us. Boston happens to be a neighbor of ours which really >> kind of uh pushes the boundary out a little bit because they are a little bit higher and uh they have less they have less steps than we have. So, uh, so we
we are aware of where our hiring numbers are, what what's what could be appropriated, and we do hire, to Jay's point, the best candidate. So, if that candidate is someone with seven years experience or 12 years experience, we hire that person because that's who we want in front of our children. So, um, but uh, but the scale is is uh pretty
uniform across most cities and towns. We we're in good shape. and and when we talk about the 7%s uh some some of those are just unique to how the scale works but I think the overall 4.56 that's the salary increase for the year
if we rolled everybody over that's a large number though in and of itself that that number is $3.8 $20. You know what I mean? Like that that's a big number. So >> Mark's got his hand raised. >> Yeah, I appreciate it. I just mostly was
wondering um you know, some of this feels like it's it's pushing honestly into almost like negotiation territory, right? There there's two parts of this. It's not just what the district wants, it's what the the unions also want and will accept. And you know, kind of that
that negotiation is a a piece that's managed by the school department, school committee. I to me I think for the purposes of this committee and as we're talking about long-term projections it's a matter of again what are reasonable
um assumptions we can make around what staff salaries within schools will will be in the next three five 10 years whatever is the time horizon that this group is is building towards and I think that that's again where it gets back to
a point John made which is, you know, let's look at let's look at past practice. We could also look at again what is the the percent increase we're seeing in kind of that other towns have seen um other kind of comparable towns within the kind of metro area um over
the last five years like whatever that kind of metric is. But I I think that's that's really what we need to be looking at here rather than having kind of a more detailed conversation about uh Milton public schools specific teacher salary scale or um competitiveness. Like
those are all things that the the school committee and the school department look at as it relates to negotiations and as relates to to hiring uh and increasing kind of diversity of staff and and things like that. So I think that's somewhat out of the the helpfulness of of this conversation is my opinion.
You know what I sorry that was a long segue but that's a question but I did want to make a different point to what you said is I thought that one thing that would be helping budgets is I don't it seems like from your spreadsheet we do a lot of budgeting based on prior year appropriations I know we talked
once about trying to do projections >> to act either actuals and projections and my two cents would be that would be a big help in improvement for everybody. Well, I think yeah, I think to your point, to Mark's point, I I think um I think
doing doing the projections to actual is key. And I think we need so what I want to do is or what I will propose is that maybe
maybe we get like a couple of workshops going like one team help with the um the forecast model and the other team help with um it sounds like also we've had a
lot of discussion around budget calendars and synchronization and I know in the beginning we had a lot of discussion around that. But um I think it would help if we put some more direction and maybe
um had some of us sort of do some work in the intervening time between the two meeting between this meeting and the next meeting to to put something together along those lines
based on what we've been unpacking cuz I agree. too. I mean, as much as um as much as diving into the intricacies of the teacher steps and lanes can be fascinating, it's it's not going to get us where we need to be for this for the
product that we're trying to produce. >> I I'll jump in the forecast workshop. >> Okay. So, can I can I just um just say it out loud the way I understand it and and Katie, let me know how you see this as well.
>> For example, Katie and I will just sound and make a list of assumptions. >> We're assuming x amount of increases for these big uh lines that we organize our budget by and we extrapolate that over three years. >> Yeah. >> And we just say here's here's what the schools would look like under the
following assumptions. This is the growth of >> if you did a 3% a 5% or whatever you pick the percentages the run rate. >> So but we have staffing level we have percent you know salary increase level that we can make an assumption on and then we have the drivers that that Katie
just talked about that were non salary based >> transportation etc. >> And and that's like that's the big piece of clay that we're about to put into the >> sure >> that that that's going to have to be shaped over time to your point. It's not perfect but it's a big it's a blunt instrument to start. We can we can put
that on the table >> uh relatively soon in order to make that happen while we're you know finishing up and organizing ourselves for FY27. Would that be is that a fantastic >> Winston has his hand raised? >> I think John started answering uh my
question um sort of what are we generating or leaving with here? So if uh John and Katie and schools are going to put together uh two or three year with their assumptions is uh what's the other side of that? Are we making that
at the town level as well and then coming back to combine the two in our next meeting? >> So yeah, I think the question is so we do have something at the town level, right? I think the question is does the town level so the school model is an
input into the town model. I guess my question for Nick and Amy is do we have everything we need in the town model or do we need to like make adjustments to that >> as a tool it is set up in terms of what
the inputs are we need would need to spend just like John and Katie would need to just kind of dive to get a little bit deeper because we've kept it very high level it's just like a calculation of salaries and a calculation of expenses. >> Yeah. Um, so we can revisit it in a
little bit more kind of a deeper detail to to talk about what I've talked about in terms of increase on the DPW our forecast for trash and recycling because of the uncertainty that we're going to face in 28. >> Y >> um and then fine-tune on the salary side a little bit better in terms of where we
expect higher um or lower increases. So it needs a little bit more detail, but the framework of the tool itself is fine. just the it's not as um refined as it could be. >> It can take some time to do it. >> And I have I actually have a conflict
for next Monday's meeting. I have a meeting with a group that um I want to make sure I can can hold. So I don't know if this is like a oneweek thing or is this a two week thing because it might be helpful for Kat and I just >> Are we on for next week too? >> I think we are. Did we get bumped out because the snow?
>> Because of snow. We bumped this one in and we're scheduled right now for the 9th and the 23rd. Okay. >> So, if the the 23rd seems like a 100 years away, but um if we could do the 23rd, that might give us time to get our projections together. And to your point,
Megan, we want to make sure that they're actually um working in harmony with Nick's projection so they can actually fit and be plugged in a little bit. So, >> should we say in the 23rd that we'll >> we'll work on our side stuff and then we'll meet with Amy and and Nicole to make sure that they understand how we
flow into your big picture and then we can kind of give that projection on the 23rd. Does that make sense? >> I think it makes sense. >> I'm on vacation next week so that makes a lot of sense to me. >> That's >> Should we then meet two weeks from now instead? So, what are we going to do
next week? I think. Yeah, it sounds like we're meeting in two weeks. >> Well, the 23rd is three weeks. >> Yeah. >> So, should we meet on the 16th >> or the 17th or Yeah. What is today? The 2nd. >> Today's second schedule.
>> 16th. >> I'm okay with meeting on the 16th. I mean, >> if not here and we're trying to fold it in. I just want to make sure from a from a um right now we're we are act I know we're not talking about 27 but we're
actively involved in 27 and trying to get projections together and if maybe it's not going to be available. Do we go with the 23rd? I'm not, you know, and again, yeah, >> to to Nick's point, high level, a little bit lower than high level, right? We're trying to come up with a little bit more of a um
>> uh firmer number with firmer assumptions. So, you know, what is the actual what's a reasonable time to get that work done, I guess, >> and I don't do that work specifically. I know Katie does that work specifically, so I don't want to make assumptions for folks. >> I am available on the uh
on the 9th and the 23rd. Actually, we already have a meeting with the 23rd. So, it's already on the So, Nick and Amy and Katie, I don't know how you >> That works. That would work for us. And I think if we're targeting late April, mid to late April, I think we should be in okay shape with if everybody's okay
with that. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So, the 23rd, we that's our our work to take away. >> Okay. >> What do we do if this realistic forecast doesn't match the realistic revenue side? it will not. And that that's where the
beginning of the conversation starts like that. That's absolutely why we need to do it point, right? We really have to have a really hard conversation about the the big blocks of this and and early as as early as possible understand where the gaps are in these big picture
projections around revenue and expenses. So when we have to begin to have these conversations, what I would consider to be uh in August of next year for FY28, we already know what the big gaps are >> and we can already start to talk about what's what's driving those gaps and
what needs to be done to mitigate those gaps, >> right? Jimmy like that that's I think that that's the if we can get the big blocks done between now and June kind of explain to town meeting what we're thinking and then be really upfront when we meet in August and when we get to when everybody starts to pay attention
again in September. >> Here are the big blocks of the here's our estimated revenue. This is might not it might change by 300,000 here or 500,000 there but it's not changing by 5 million. Right? >> Here's our projected costs given what has happened in the past and what we are projecting for the near future. and here
are the here's the big here's the deficit or here's where we're almost in line and this is working and that to me it would be great if we could settle on the big blocks and then breathe a little bit in June and July and then sit down in August and start to really have the conversations in August and September in
front of the public early so this budget the making of the budget isn't squeezing us in our work >> that we're actually doing it as proactively as possible >> and that's that's my question on like the calendar part too is if like we had like sort of a coral area of like
>> all right so like what's the timeline for >> implementing the tools so to speak >> and I think starting with revenue is a really big uh good idea to do and I know that we did that and I think it's a because you can only spend what you have >> right yeah
>> but I think that um having the conversation about projecting the revenue along with a very you know very soon after okay now that we have revenue to project that that's where we're going to start. You have to have the expense thing right behind it. And if we can have that in the early fall, I think
that we can have better discussions without the pressure of having to finish the budget so quickly, right? What gives us the whole fall to to work out the ins and outs and the impacts that we we're all concerned about now. We can have those early >> without the pressure of the timeline of
having to get the budget done that we have right now. So on so on the 23rd uh we'll expect to see the first kind of whole town of Milton projection for the next three years uh revenue and expenses alto
together >> three three yeah I I think three years is a a model that would make sense >> anything beyond three it's it goes to guesses >> who knows you get less less less
>> meat in the bone I I wouldn't want to go past three. I just wanted to say clearly what we're going to see. >> Y >> third. >> Sometimes I'm like, can we go past one even? No. >> Just kidding. >> Where are you in contract negotiations? Is it won't be done in a month, right?
>> It will not be done in >> it will be hopefully done by the time that the by the time the school year ends. That would be ideal. But um and it's been very productive in the and the uh the MEA has been great. So, we're really we're really looking forward to tying it up. It's been a good
experience. >> And on the town side, in your negotiations, are the town employees do they ever look to see what the teachers are doing and then they're expecting the same >> uh units will throw all sorts of
information out there that is beneficial to their argument. Um, we push back typically and say, "What are the comps for people in your position and communities that are similar to ours?" So we won't necessarily say, you know, what does a teacher make or what is the teacher's cola? We try to say no, well,
if you're a heavy equipment operator in Milton, what is a heavy equipment operator and our peers um doing? So that's how we try to push back on. >> And then also on the um the policy um from do I went on their website and you
know there are so many different policies for so many towns. You know, I printed out Southboro and Winthre. Is there one town that you're actually um modeling after? It seemed like it could have been a combination. >> But I So the benefit is it's they're all
very similar. So I think South is fairly recent, right? >> That's why I printed that off because that was 2024. >> South and Rentham, I think, were the two I was looking at because they were the most recent policy packets that do put out there. >> Yeah. Okay. So that's um I should focus
on that's a good place to look. Sorry, policy of what? >> It was just the financial p uh policy packet for that covers all the financial policies of those towns. Okay. With the do models and do's assistance in in drafting them. >> They're all on the DR website.
>> Okay. We're um we're about five minutes past time. So I um I and I think we have some clear direction for our next meeting which will be on March 23rd. we have a little bit of time. Folks are going to break
out and and um come up with some models and um so given that I will take a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved >> a second.
>> He's not a member so he can't actually I'll say it differently. Let's move this along. I'm like, I'll take it. >> I'm like, I'll take it. >> Do I have a second? Do I have a motion and a second? >> Okay. >> All right. All in favor? I Okay. Thank
you, John.