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evening and welcome to excuse me the 20th meeting of fiscal year 2025 for the Milton planning board at this time I would like to Now call the meeting to order and begin with the
introductions of the board and our staff um if you'd like to begin uh mag y Oldfield member Cheryl Taya secretary Jim Davis member Sean F member and Meredith Hall serving as chair um the first uh item um is to start with our administrative items we have two sets of minutes which stff and staff yes
Julia Cheyenne actually you're here with us Shan I think you're muted okay Julia Julia's with us we do have Cheyenne on um our assistant Town plan and hopefully Julia will be able to join
us um we were having some technical difficulties so um hopefully Cheyenne you'll be able to un mute yourself and say hello oh yep Cheyenne and Julia wonder if they can hear us okay okay well we do have Cheyenne and Julia can
they hear us and hopefully they can uh we can't hear them so we should we should ask Milton access okay if our volume is off on the TV but we be we if they speak we need to be able to hear them and she's muted Julia is off but we yeah everyone needs to be able to hear you can turn video on oh Jo click join audio there U at the end and the
video um there join with computer audio well now the I just muted now we can try Julia Julia can you unmute there oh she just Julia can you hear us
they did say they were having some tech technical difficulties so possibly M TV um if you're watching maybe you can come assist us while we move forward I do want to to have a report from yes we okay I have that's probably on there we did this did sound test earlier fine all right you're getting everything up okay right and see if I can myself yeah
we just tried to can you get in okay sorry m [Music] test super could she hear us speaking and can we hear her I think
it's just the volume on this TV like Maggie suggested see this is the problem on people use this and disconect uh thank you
okay Cheyenne we're not getting we're not able to hear you um online Julia you can hear us cheen what if we turn up our comp one of us turn up our computers for now that they might be tell them I'm here if you can okay
Julia you go cool okay only in the room we're getting audio on the computer but not but we're getting feedback only one person on the computer can have their audio on yeah you going to get you okay let them I don't have mine I don't have mine on either
thanks all right why don't we move ahead with the approval of our minutes while they try to get um connected and we'll defer the um staff update until we can get shyenne um hopefully we'll be able to get you connected Cheyenne okay so we have two sets of minutes um the minutes um from December 12 and from January 6th what about the
19th of and the 19th I'm sorry yes um the copy and from the 19th has everyone had a chance to review those I have did everybody see the edits that I suggested yes and I just had one edit from the 12th um it was just see it was very small citizen speak
item no that that would be January 6 then no there was no citizen speak it was where we had a speaker and it said Bob and it was actually Mary last name here um that's was that um related to the marketplace the 10 Basset Street yes so I don't think that was on the
sixth was on the I think they were on it together yeah it said but it's it referred to she I think it was his um she was on his computer let me see on the first page of the six second to bottom yeah it says Bob Branton on yes on the it was just it was Mary yeah that was the only change that okay so that's else good to me that on January on January jary 6
yes all right then um so motion to approve the minutes from um December 12th December 19th and January 6th if I can have a motion come moved second second all right all in favor I I here great thank you so much um and we are still try Julia can you hear us or Cheyenne
and are you able to speak we're not able to hear you I can hear you okay um you can hear us but we cannot hear you through the television yeah so I'll just watch the um the speaker on my computer so we can't speak well this is up or else we they get feedback yes and the only thing that I'm concerned about is Citizens speak if
anyone's on Zoom yeah that they won't be able to be heard right they'll be able to be heard through the computer right yeah if we if you can hold a microphone maybe we should take one of the microphones and hold I'll take one for I've got coffee that might be the best solu or borrow one of the microphones when when they're speaking okay okay um so at this time um
actually why don't we let Cheyenne Cheyenne if you have an update we're GNA try to improvise here and provide a microphone up to the computer okay um can you gra the microphones up there and hopefully that will amplify let us know if you can hear us
okay cheyen if you could just speak as loudly as possible sure can you hear me yes yes okay um so a little bit ago about half an hour ago the Adu regulations were published so we will have that to go off of tonight when work on that um zoning articles will be due to the printer on the 29th so if we would like to get another meeting in sometime early next week Monday or Tuesday um if we don't get through tonight we have that option but night is
our our deadline and as for I spoke a little bit about it and since we have a stacked agenda we'd like to try and maybe Implement a time limit so we can make it through the entire agenda and everybody who wants to speak can speak so uh maybe two to three minutes is sufficient great thank you Che okay so with that um we can begin our
citizen speak if there's anyone here who would like to um speak on anything um you will have an opportunity if it's on the agenda to speak at that time as well um but feel free to join us if you're in the public and if you'd like to raise your hand if you're on Zoom um and we can call and let you in okay anyone here yes okay please i' like to speak at the time later in the agenda okay the MTA Comm
okay that's great anyone else like to speak on something that is not on the agenda or or if you'd like to speak now in advance are you seeing any hands up on Zoom anyone okay all right we don't have any hands
up at this time um we can now open our um the public hearing for site plan approval zero Blue Hill AV parcel B- 7-5 continued from December 12th 24 and welcome You' like to introduce yourself and yeah absolutely um Chris Fon with Viking development here on zero welcome welcome back thank you
she's just putting me on as a a panelist and I'll pull up the site plan so just kind of a brief recap I know we
have holidays and new year and all that so um when we were here a few weeks ago we provided a partial plan set kind of re introducing a new concept that we had gone back and revised based on conversations we're now coming back with a full complete set that I think um received positive direction in the beginning but there was some feedback some things that should change so uh there's five or six things in this plan set that were up updated from from the original Concept in progression of the
construction documents uh we changed the pitch on the gable roof design um we increased the Landscaping with an emphasis on a variety as well as sort of enhancing that buffer area between the road and the building um proposed tree Heights we went back and kind of made everything a little bit taller sight lighting we went back and looked at some fixtures with a little more character that had been previously approved by you guys and then the last one was tree preservation we added a little more detail call outs on exactly how those
trees kind of outside the limit of disturbance but within sort of that area that that could be disturbed how they would protect those all of those changes also maintain the limit of disturbance amounts the earthw quantities the tree removal amounts you know all of those numbers that we talked about previously in this updated design those are almost identical you know small changes so hopefully you guys had a chance to review we have the the full design team here architect is on virtually happy to answer any
questions great any questions from the board I I think it would be nice to walk through sort of the new elevations and sure take a a look through to see the particular the roof line changes there yep so um actually Josh are youan do you want to speak on the on the
elevations oh this is going to be challenging we're going have to yeah sorry okay okay okay can you hear me now yes yes so what we did was took a lot of the board feedbacks and I think it was very
good feedback on the last one about the proportionality um and kind of the direction of roof lines and shape within the last meeting um one of the comments was that I think we played it a little bit safe on the last one um that we were allowed to use the mean grade of the building for your zoning code and kind of looking at that and how it could affect our roof line took the direction to to do so um with the mean grade in
mind it allows us to have a maximum Building height of 41 foot6 which is still under the planning board regulations for 35 ft um so when we do that we took our original roof line uh which was just about 5 over 12 in a lot of the cases um and pulled that up to 8 over 12 which was much more consistent with the kind of residential design uh that was mentioned in the last meeting um another change we made roof line wise was pulled up the larger and straight uh
roof line that you see kind of majorly across the front elevation here um and pulled that up with the gabled ends on each side in order to give it more of a kind of uniform feel um something more typical of of what we would expect in this case um so really and looking at those and how that that design proportion works together I think that was the that was the large feedback that we took from the last meeting as well as looking at
the in maybe a less impactful way than what we had the last time any questions okay I don't just a question I had was what is the stone you have a stone base which I really like it's not
just the concrete but what type of material is that that intended to be Josh you want to speak on this specific yeah I can so it is a thin Stone product so it's real Stone um just carved to be an inch thick rather than uh whatever it might be two feet if you use realistic Stone um but what we did is we took a lot of the pictures from along blue hoav um some kind of near the
public library as well on people's entrance drives some of the stone walls and and things that you could see along the roads um and picked a manufacturer and product that kind of reflected the tones and colors as well as the shape that we saw there so it is a real Stone um it's just a thin version of it to adhere to the wall that's that's great and are we looking at doorways U the three the three to the left and three to the right which are solid are
those are those those are ESS only for fire safety from okay that's what I okay any other questions so far and what color is the stone bra
that's nice thank you that's so I love it I just am a little hung up on the windows I know they're not operable they're they're just you know an eight just an eight panel window um is there any way way to get a thicker mullon to make it look like a double hung B on the specifically the second
floor and then to add grills on the first floor on the sixth that um Veri just mentioned in the doors in the doors so yeah grills in the doors but then the second floor window specifically and some of the first floor that are just six panel um or six light can you put some kind of a center moleon at least on the second floor so they look like double hungs I'm just I mean I love the building I just the the windows stand out to me is just real industrial I don't know if that's even possible but so you're to make sure I understand and
then we'll let Josh you want that middle piece to be thicker to sort of look like a double home window something yeah something like that and then you want them all to be somewhat symmetrical in the same on that top because you have the six six I think then you'd have to do the same on the the ends I mean I kind of don't mind the prairie style on the ends as much but because it it's something different but I mean I would just I think I went by um the Wood Road facility and you have Windows similar to
the prairie style in that building right I you know um but they just look big and Industrial and fixed and if there was a way to do we have the same detail in the windows at the brain tree school I think this is this is unique to to this school window system the exact same M that are within the window so what you're seeing at the Wood Road school is identical to this just with a um Ms inside to break it up a little bit further so the brain tree one didn't
have as many it was more of just a clear window like those doors right and I'm trying to get away from that and get something that looks more double hung that that's I can certainly look at it um I'm not entirely sure what the manufacturer specific requirements are for what they would put inside the window um for what size they would be we definitely have the flexibility to do something similar to it um I just don't know and I could be wrong um I don't know how realistic
those internal muttons would look for kind of what design you're after what if we took these two out the top and the bottom leaving you only in the middle till you look more like a double double home window yeah and keeping a contrast with like you said the ones on the ends right they're kind of opposite yeah that wouldn't be bad so it's a two over two yeah we can certainly break it up or
like a Cas double window but then you almost have to do that soon yeah we've got six here so we'd probably match it on this and then Josh I don't think we put a pin in that and think about that that's yeah just just something that I I thought would help the look of the just
the bank of Windows and these are grilled between the glass is that what he said the internal muttons yeah they're tough to thicken up between the two panels yeah I think it's going for that sort of a modern Farmhouse look almost where you're like more old school house look yeah just yeah just a double hung would I think would look so much nicer once again like the idea of breaking up the doors at least yeah those are the
solid glass doors that that's possible in the front door maybe and what is the uh material on above the um windows that little gold stripe gold stripe the gold stripe that you're looking at there is just another hearty panel so similar to the trim that would be around uh the rest of the building um whether you use a colored side board like you would see sometimes they usually trim it out in a white around the rest of the building um it's just a
a wood tone of it that's slightly recessed to add a little bit of of variation and tie into the the stone base below okay okay I think the changes are um good I I think the height and roof pitch changes are good um I have some questions or
comments on the site plan and the landscape plan sure um and then also I did review the storm water peer review uh which also had a zoning review go through couple things um I don't know how much we're going to try to get through tonight but um if we if if um on the site plan did you want us go to that next yeah we can go through that
okay the um if we could go to the grading plan that retaining wall that's on the north side of the drive um it looks to be 5T uh tall and the details show one of those segmented block retaining walls that
kind of steps back um but for this height I was wondering uh if you could use something more like we were're able to get something called um a block kind of a vertical block with a stone veneer that Sean had put um a different applicant in touch with it's called Conigliaro block lock um and it it's much um more like a stone wall in
appearance than something that looks like a highway kind of retaining wall and so if you could take a look at that so uh c o n i g l i a r o I got pretty close block with stone veneer that's different than the uh retaining oneall that we had talked about last time you had mentioned it is so the retaining wall that I suggested was the one that was used on
uh Kyle Hornish used it on his development in the front of Ed is it Pleasant I think at that point you know the five houses that are real big um and that came pre-manufactured like 2ot by 8ot and it was a really nice stone veneer to look at and that that's a wall that we would certainly consider an option like that whether it's your product I'll look into this one yeah either one that has yeah true stone veneer to it m um the backup that is
suitable for your retention needs yeah um and then um that email to try to find it did you I have I somewhere else so I'm familiar okay good um and then can you go to the um layout plan which was the plan before the grading plan I think who's managing this oh you are all right uh so I was U again we recently reviewed um a memory care facility on Highland Street where at the
entrance Drive um we requested a cobblestone kind of apron so to kind of um have the entrance stand out a little bit and so it I think it was 25 ft um in and uh and then it would just continued on with Asa um you look like you have a puzzled look I'm just thinking how that would be constructed in so it's just a a cobblestone 25t approach basically just
have a better appearance from from the right okay and then I noticed that it's pre-cast concrete curb um and I think there too we ask for granite up a certain distance the distance up I'm not recalling but maybe here it would be up to where the turn is and then it can switch to um right this point yeah or a little bit further um yeah I'd be happy to match it to the
Cobblestone um yeah just again to kind of from a visual perspective let's match it so let me and then grading wise let me look at it make sure there's no steepness that's going to be a trouble you know tying in in that area looking at how that comes together making sure there's drainage and and while um I mean this while we're looking at this but it's a note that's in the um the horley
wit group peer review it it did talk about this uh curb cut width and the driveway width um being more than what the maximum in our um I think it's in the rules and Rags are um so that the rules in rags are for a curb cut of 32 feet and this is proposed at 56 and then the driveway width at uh 24 ft and this
is proposed at 26 so in that report they had asked for you uh for you to give us the reasons why you were widening those beyond what was um in our rules and Rags so just while we're here I just wanted to point that out but was there a response just that it exceeded what is in our rules and reg so 24 feet um if it's possible to narrow that to what is within like so I can give you my answer but this is Luke he's with bowler civil
engineer um but early on we had met for prea and the fire department had expressed concerns with turning Maneuvers and making sure to stay um in the in the right lanes in and out and so that sort of forced us into slightly wider okay curve returns which I think puts you at the 56 or whatever you had mentioned so I think you you probably I'm guessing that's the answer that's in their comment response that's what I was say okay maybe I I was not reviewing the
most recent document but if that's in the response that's fine um okay so then on the as you scroll to where the proposed snow storage area is on the south end of the parking lot um that's an area which has a fair amount of a slope um so if you go next to the grading plan it's in that whole regrade area so I
guess I'm want to be sure that when that snow pile melts that it's ending up um in in the containment area M um and you know doesn't any in any way find its way over to the ab Butters uh if so if you could just confirm that or take a look at that and then um one other thing on this um layout plan does given the slope of
um the edge of the parking lot particularly towards the street is a guard rail required at that edge what was the question is a guard whale required given the slope down so if somebody goes straight and they go beyond the edge of the it's not required for the record move to I think you actually
comece yourself yeah welcome yeah generally it's not required you have the curb uh and then it it may look like an extreme slope it's fairly gradual all said and done uh it's something if it was requested certainly but not something we would typically put in on an application like this okay and then I guess while you're here with us back to that storm water report
um there was a comment about a steep slope and I think it was comment um under 2f I don't know if we have that handy do you have that um the peer review I have to go back and see which one I was looking at up see if I can get back
[Music] to see December December 3rd yeah yes two get to a too [Applause] yes so rip wrap outall yes it's two f um
have you found it okay uh I believe that's been modified to a 3: one but we can confirm that and and
make certain that it meets that requirement and can you go back to the site plan and point out where that where that is yeah so okay correct me if I'm wrong but I assume that's talking about this area up in this that right there what's the purpose of that I just that's the comment was referring to that area I was just ask I us referring to a rip wrap outfall uh if you look you go back to the plan and you might have been
cir the same thing versus just the and let's keep in mind that these comments were made pre designer Visions correct okay okay so they're pre design revisions and you did make some revisions to this area we just haven't gotten any updates on those yeah so they were submitted back to the reviewer I think the day after we submitted to you
guys okay so we'll just need to get that from hor horley wooden and just from an aesthetic point of view it's that's out front right so that rip wrap is along blue H AV correct you know um how close to the street is that I'm going to guess from the travel way itself probably close to 10 ft give or
take a little bit it is set down a few feet correct will that be screened with trees to some exent so again the concern is we're in a residential neighborhood so um we want as much um tree coverage as possible [Music] yeah we we proposed if you look at the
plan along there certainly we've tried to maximize the amount of existing vegetation remaining in that area right directly where the rip wrap out fall is unfortunately we've got to do grading to get that in there uh so some of the trees had to be removed it's not something that's going to be superv visual as you're traveling by again it's basically you know like a hole with stone so uh if the fear is that you're
going to see this thing that's really in slightly that's not the case and so I think of wcot woods did a really nice job when you drive in and they have a retention Basin there and they did some pine tree screening which is which is really soften that and you don't you your eye does not go to that you don't notice it so any sort of additional screening that might be um helpful to add because you will have to um take out some trees to get that
in so maybe a modification to the landscape plan there a bit we can look at just extending this a few feet to to screen the rip wrap match that the of disturbance that would be great yeah I don't think we're removing anything in that area um it doesn't look like we're regrading anything in that area no that's the limit of work you can see the liit work so so it couldn't be a grass Swale at all it has to be a stone yeah
because that's the outfall so what we want to do is we want to try and eliminate scour because if we don't have something there and you've got the water coming from the opposite side of the driveway it'll wash out so that's designed to dissipate the velocity of the flow as it comes out of that pipe so ultimately it's there to basically keep that area from just washing out over time MH okay and I think limiting the
disturbance is good but I think you know if you could if you have to adjust it slightly to get additional landscaping and I think that you would be happy with that um while we're on the landscape plan um back so um the the two abing properties on the North and South um that that tree cover does that provide some under is there undergrowth
as well like where you're providing here like um that material I'm wondering Maggie um you might want to comment here too whether some dispersed um amongst the existing trees so it's not all like new and existing with such a kind of defined line um if it would look more natural that way yeah definitely having a staggered l Cape is um more natural and according to your landscape plan I do
appreciate how you um gone up in size on your trees you know 12 to 14 ft um 2 and 1 half to I think 3 in caliber um and I think it's a nice mix of um plant material deciduous trees and Evergreens but just be cognizant of doing a more natural um layered look and not a straight line correct that was designed by our Landscape Architects to you can see they
are slightly staggered uh and that's to provide again a mix you have uh some pretty mature trees there so we want to make sure that we're providing I think you mentioned undergrowth or understory to block the visibility as well as what you're getting from the canopies and the trees it's just a question of whether they can just be a little bit more depth to it not so maybe uh your landscape architect can comment on that and give us an idea whether they think what depth
they think is necessary or appropriate for that yeah the new plantings that are there were designed in an area that looks to have been cleared by the reuning property owner so we're kind of going to infill just that area I see if we were to extend that you're probably doing it at the expense of existing vation uh so they thought what they had here was a better solution than you know you could widen it up but then you rep placing you know some mature vegetation with newer plantings which again we were
trying to maximize the amount of existing vegetation onsite so I guess what I would say here is you know maybe some of it is kind of decided in the field a little bit that um where it might not provide such a wall um and can you scroll down to the S Southern one well here it's a little more dispersed because of the configuration of the property and we did hear from
that butter at our last um meeting um and so I think uh if the circles for the existing trees are correct there's more of a tree line here already um so that seems um okay with me the the one thing I also was thinking was along the edge of the parking lot we talked about it being kind of a again kind of a wall and linear so on the on the very yeah and you made there's some
slight modif or modulation here um but I I uh I guess I still think it's going to be kind of linear in appearance and wonder if you can just take that a little bit further you know the landscape um staggering or maybe there's um something that's not quite as high in scale that starts to make its way down the slope a little bit because that now you've switched that to the wildlife seed mix
on the entire slope right um which that was I don't think you have um I think you were only doing like 2 lbs of wild flower seed mix for 1,700 square feet um I think you need to go a little bit heavier on that I certainly we'll talk to the landscape team but again they're that's what they do yeah we can certainly ask if they think additional
cover is necessary so I'm afraid it's just going to wash out you know because it is on a slope and you have a better um um it it'll probably take better earlier if you go heavier yeah would certainly bring that up to them absolutely and then if you scroll back over to the plan um I was looking at the trees um it's nice to get shade in the parking lot so that we cut down on heat island effect
and so I was um wondering about the species that's specified and I think it's a shade tree but is it provide as as large uh diameter I guess as some other shade tree so maybe either Maggie can come in on that or your landscape architect but also adding one in the island um that or the peninsula on the right hand um right exactly and then whether um some is any
place along this Edge where there can be a shade tree or a couple of shade trees along the edges um so that we can get some shade onto the impervious surface and um I think in our was it our site plan approval we're trying to do it's was every five spaces we wanted a um a shade tree so I was wondering why um if that Island on the right um you know you only have
one Island on the right but maybe it should be brought down a little bit so it breaks up that um spance of parking spaces yeah I'm guessing it was a symmetry thing with the one in the center which gets to the question of another comment that was made in that uh horley Wht peer review was 57 parking spaces when 27 are required and so um again we're
down to 46 it was down to 46 down to 46 but it was still I think 23 was um required I I had a question about that too so I was wondering why you needed the extra and if it could be reduced at all and then maybe you could you know do another Island yeah I think looking at this based on the com you just made about the placement of the island we could probably remove you know another two there directly across from from the enclosure yeah kind of leave
that island where it is but it now centers the one that you that would be nice um but I do think operationally we are are landing in a place of where we like to see our schools um just to make sure that we are are appropriately parked for the operation the drop off pick up all of that um you guys are are low in terms of your parking standards to what we're typically used to seeing I'm us usually arguing the other way um so I I like to hear that I'm willing to work with you on that but there is a point here where
the 23 just doesn't work for our our obervation and it's 46 now yeah okay um is that and then I just had um thank on the lighting plan thank you um for taking a look at the different fixtures could you go to that could you go to that yeah that would be great and thank you for bringing that up because that's
usually on my checklist too so I appreciate that I did want to ask you about the quantity of them those I I I realize that the the type of fixture influences the quantity um but I don't recall if we spoke before about controls and sensors uh so that we don't have the fixtures on uh longer than they need to
be so like they don't did we did we speak about that before I don't know if we spoke about it in detail um totally open we typically would have them turn on an hour before open in the right season and then an hour after close Okay and then the fixtures is's a lot around the perimeter of the building so would those after a certain hour be on an occupancy sensor I imagine some of them might be for security purposes but uh or even
that uh but there's if we look at how many there are um those would be off one hour after closure as well and not on at all would there be anything that is on or on an occupancy center around the building at night Josh do you know how those are programmed so hold on sorry what was that I hear The Tech Guys talking in the background I was gonna say can you the tech um the public is
can hear everything the m m TV is saying so I don't know if they can hear us but they should maybe find a way to mute themselves okay sorry go ahead you mind repeating the question the uh whether there's security lighting that would be tied to motion sensors um
around the perimeter of the building that would be building mounted or would all of these lights just be off at I I can we can hear you now I can hear you I think it must just be the people on Zoom yeah I'm Julia and the here okay yeah so I guess the question I
would have are those mounted like scon lights or are those you know yeah so are they decorative are they you know I didn't see those on the on the plan yeah so typically um they are like a goose neck light you may have seen them if you went by the Wood Road Site um I I don't believe they're like a wall pack light there's a detail on the next page yeah is there for the for the building one
for both yeah you have the the wall SC is on the right top I believe yes so I think this is all related to the new sight lights that we put in the parking lot I don't believe we have a detail on here for the building lighting I I did look up this W2 which is referen on the plan this Cooper in and is it is there I believe on your uh as you said on your cut sheet
that's on the plan that one on the right there this guy here MH yeah it's very similar if that's not it it's very close it's very close right the only thing I was hoping he would answer that I don't know the answer to off the top of my head is the timing on them if they all turn off um if they are meant for emergency purposes to be on um certainly so if they're on for emergency purposes or security purposes it would
be great for them to be at a low level and then they get tripped up at a higher level with movement or right something of that nature just so that uh then it has a more residential level of Lighty than um than a commercial level of Lighty okay oper yeah now we can you can answer the question [Music] all right can you hear me any We
can question guys were talking so if I missed I apologize um it was about exteror lighting climing correct yes yes yes the public so that can be configured in a way that we will provide battery backup power and motion sensors on all exterior writing attached to the building that can obviously still be put on a timer to work on whatever system we want so if we want to say lights turn off at
7 pm 800m whatever it might be um after that point in time we can control whether they're dimmed as a standard and then we just go to full power when motion activated or we can have them off completely and then if motion activates we can go to whatever value is determined whether that's 50% power or 100% whatever it might be that's cool okay great
okay so there's a total so all of those lights that we were looking at were all wallmounted basically sconces we had another um school that recently opened and off the playground had a bright blue light that seems to stay on you don't have any emergency lights or things that would stay on all night that might affect the neighbors that you know of they will not have emergency light fixtures on this so we do use the sconces as battery backup fixtures uh in
most cases great so they will act as our emergency leges but we do not have any specific wall packs that you would be referring to Great okay yeah it was a issue another property so thank you that's great um I had a question um regarding around the playground do you have a um a detailing for the fencing that you'll have around the playground area yeah that you could
maybe did they have it might have had it I thought it was vinyl that's what no so around around the um playground should be a ornamental fence okay great likely black okay nice I think I had submitted a cut sheet at one point okay let see if it comes that's that
hasn't you had that just to confirm that that's what we'll be yeah so it'll look something like this right okay that'll that'll look very nice and what one of the questions that I had was as this is It's a residential neighborhood it is a busy road but you're surrounded by Residential Properties um on all sides signage is something that's really important um and I don't know what you're what you're looking at currently but what would be
really nice to connect with your lighting as you approach the granite curb is to do something that um is either mounted on granite but has sort of a gooseneck um lighting that's pointed downward rather than internally illuminated um which gives more of a commercial so something that would cast uh light in a downward obviously we need to light your sign we need to make it visible um and and uh
but recognizing that it is a residential neighborhood it would be nice to tie in the goose neck sort of a lighting um and maybe and I like this sort of the base what you have is and we would just find a way to externally illuminate with a downlight of some kind exactly that's what um I think that would look really nice um for the Neighbors um yeah and passing by and and fitting into sort of the the town okay yep that would be you could maybe give some more detail
on that in the future that'd be great okay any other questions so far no no I I guess we'll be just looking for sort of an update from horley Whitten Cheyenne you know if you could get find out because you obviously responded to them and we just haven't seen the new updated responses so we'd like to see that but I just want to say thank you so much for you know you really um the project is looking really
good um I think we'll want to see maybe a construction management plan as it is you know a busy road with trucks and vehicles um how you'll be looking at that um having sort of a protection on the um on the do not disturb buffer zone with the trees from the neighbors to make sure that that's either fenced off but somehow those trees are protected during construction um would be would be helpful to see have you have you submitted a construction plan a construction management plan well
and that's what I I want to that's sort of where I'm going we have an erosion incent control plan that talks about you know how to protect inlets how to slow down runoff all of that right what additionally are we looking for that isn't kind of captured in those plan sets from a means of methods perspective thing is like you know you look at a vehicle that exits a construction site that the wheelbase are the tires that um get there's a cleaning system so that the mud's not Tak that
shown there stabilize construction entrance great and I know that right now on Randall fabruary 28 there's a big 40b being built and I know the neighbors have really been um concerned with the dust we've had a lot of high winds and it was dry um in the fall so it's been very very dusty and they were not on top of their um their plan so just making sure that the dust is controlled yeah
and that's identified in the the erosion and sediment control to typically they'll spray okay U you know Dusty areas or areas that are exposed uh that have dirt they'll spray them usually once or twice a day to make sure that they're minimizing dust you're not going to control dust 100% but it's outlined how to do that on the plan and then the tree protection is that outlined on that plan as well I'm trying to find that it's noted I don't think
they have a specific you we have an outline again that's a means and methods thing it can be you've seen it all snow fence there's different types of ways you can protect the trees so what we've seen often times is PE we hear that there's going to be protection and then we go by the site and we see equipment stored right up against the trunk of the tree or you see material stored there heavy equipment and it it is has a longterm effect on
the health of the tree so we've had uh where it's a fence that is at the drip line of the tree that nothing can be stored in that within that drip line yeah that's usually I can't say it's never happened because we've seen it happen I mean generally you're going to have the silk fence uh that will ring the property uh you'll also have usually construction fence and then I know in this particular instance we've noted on
the tree removal plan any trees that are close to the limit of work will be protected and again that's in addition to all the other safeguards we have in place to make sure that construction happens where we want it which is interior to the site and you don't get that construction creep outside what what sheet is this that you've got up this is on the demo uh sheet I demo in existing condition demo and treade protection plan as okay great
thanks it may be it's Luke right is it Luke um it it may be that a lot of the type of questions that are related to that are being are being U are already embedded um you know sometimes when they're collected into just a simple document it's a lot easier for everybody to understand what the construction management practices will be you know and it's it's all the things that if this were going on next to your house
you'd care about you know what time what time do what time does construction traffic start when does construction traffic stop when do machines start in the morning do you know what I mean things of that nature um yeah if you're looking for that I think you're looking talking two separate things I mean right now I don't I'm guessing you don't have a contractor chosen no but a contractor can certainly provide you oh yeah me set back I'm sure the town has construction hours that will limit when they can start when they can stop they can't work on holidays certain
holidays as far as the trucks and you know how they're going to sequence things I'm sure the contractor can provide that at some point once a contract is chosen uh as far as how the site will be prepped so that you're not cting soil erosion and sediment migration and dirt on the road because of trucks and dust that's all outlin in that soil erosion and sediment control plan yeah so I think you know one we've provided the second half of what you're
looking for might be a stay tuned they can get you that once a contract yeah let's not forget you know Public Works is involved there's an npdes permit that covers this we likely have a pre-construction meeting where this is all identified placed confirmed before they put a shovel in the ground so to Sean's point a lot of it's in here and and when we meet to start construction there's going to be some someone who makes sure these are in place I guess as a board that's responsible for approving a project to move it forward you know we
need to look after the residents in the town before you leave this particular stage so I know some of this won't get worked out until there's a contractor in place but even for those things that can't get worked out um you know establish what will be worked out when it will be worked out and who it gets worked out between so we recently had a project the member care clinic and recognizing that some of the particulars won't get you know determined until you
do have a site contractor we created a provision where that site contractor was going to be responsible I believe they were meeting with maybe the police department right just to talk about traffic to make sure that there was some protection for the residents of the Town that's all it is you know so I think what would be helpful is if you know even if it's embedded Luke if you could you know gather those pieces that are already constructed management plan related and just you know collect them all you know and give us a chance to
understand what you've embedded into those documents sure um that's that's probably not a big ask I don't think no you it sounds like you're looking for maybe just a list that's will identify the I'm sure I'm sorry to interrupt you I'm sure you've had to prepare a construction management plan in the past and even though you don't have the benefit of a contract and to do it with you um I've done a lot of work with bowler you guys you guys have the ability knowing now what you're looking for that's that's easy to pull you'll get 80% there on your own you know yeah one of the other things that's come up a lot is how construction vehicles are
going to get to the site um you know having a kind of a construction or contractor route um this is a large site but trying to disturb as little as possible where contractors will park you know where their trailers will be not disturbing more than you need to for this you know the portion of the work that you're doing um you know we've had situations where there's a um just a a lot of challenges with those all of
those things this site may be a little easier because as I said it's got more room it's not as crowded as some but those um people are very very concerned about I mean you have a a state roadway here and the trucks probably get here pretty easily but if you've identified how they're going to get here and how you manage that um can I ask if there's a way I understand where Sean's coming from I think we can put a list together to give you an idea but I also think there's an Avenue here for a condition
that allows us to meet with the contractor put in this approval what you guys are worried about what the concerns are and make sure that when we meet and start that these are addressed preconstruction um coordinating contractor parking things of that nature I think there's an aspect of of a contractor understanding how they're going to approach a project you know earthw work's going to be here there's leg we've got to do this they they they see it differently than than the engineers sorry Luke but the way it's designed is never the way it's
built so I think there's a benefit to getting the contractor's input and being able to to condition it to a sense right again back to what Sean said is these are the things that impact neighbors like often times we won't start construction without it I'm I'm just trying to find the Happy People okay maybe cheyen could provide with what we what we did with the memory care an example for you to sort of I was going to ask if you can reach out to the planning office to Cheyenne and um and Julie can provide what that construction
management plan looked like for um for 111 Highland Street we can get that to you and you can have a template for you know making it appropriate for your project but that might be helpful yeah because that's my concern is the site is you know almost six and a half acres so when a contractor comes on they'll be like oh I have all this space um and they're going to end up doing more harm to some of the Do Not Disturb areas so um trying to really limit where they are
and I know you're going to be working in one area and you have trucks here and we don't want trucks you know um slowly going up in disturbing the back natural setting that you're keeping and is there I'm sorry and I meant to ask this during the landscape is there a do not disturb um area off of the um Blue Hill a this the setback because I know there's a cleared area but just how many feet are um of the I
we're leaving natural tree buffer is being left yeah it VAR that's what I just do you know like 30 feet or I think it's more than that as you move kind of South you can see here because that would be really nice to keep that as yeah and that what we show on this plan that that's the limit of work line basically what you see surrounding the dash line surrounding uh what will be the only portions of the site that are touched at any point during construction everything
outside of that will remain as you said Do Not Disturb so I would like to see a fencing you know some sort of buffer protective whatever type of fence to to make sure that that is protected because we often see those trees lost too accidentally so sure so like a delineation of sorts to make sure the contractor stays at the limits of what the exactly so there's no RIS that staked out in the field when right and even before construction they'll Stak it
out some sort of you know you know inexpensive fencing that just orange fencing that just shows that that's yeah sure um Vehicles should not be going down there and just the around the playground area you know I'm pushing for a mulch mulch playground natural playground area as you know um but I don't see any um trees are there any trees around the playground area to provide shade for the kids when they're
out there because even here at our local schools when they're out in the playground you know even if it's may they come back with sunburn yeah I think there might be one or two just to the north side of yeah there's one and then just the canopy that because if you're going to stay the root of rubber which I hope you don't um you know I think you're going to need some shade to um it's just going to get hot out there yeah I have two responses to that
one we typically stay away from trees uh only because of leave clean up and and twigs and all of that you know from a maintenance perspective um and two you know we do have set schedules in terms of play we have the indoor play area with the rollup garage door so there is the inside out um so so it's not typical for us to put trees um even on the outside we we could again it just sort of keeps pushing our limit of
disturbance further back in if we were to put you know trees along that outside edge okay I will also add that a lot of the equipment mixtures that we put on there do have shade canopies whether it's an umbrella or just a canopy on top of the the swing or slide or whatever it might be do we have yeah so you can see here the these two pieces are covered um and then Josh I don't know if there's any other pieces in this one that are
covered I mean but also from a teacher perspective um you know the teachers might not be climbing up under those um play structures so if they're out there um yeah so these are like lunch benches oh okay okay um and are there any hands up from anyone on the on Zoom who like to have any questions while the applicant is here not as of now okay I know it's back
yeah good cheyen we can hear you fantastic um okay so I think this is a good point tonight um and we appreciate all the work and um and I think the next thing will be that the construction management plan and then we'll get an update sort of from our peer review or um on where ref requests that we made ourselves here I think but I think we're very close now yeah thank you yeah I'm hoping that if if we go back with with these items you
know focused on getting these issues resolved some of the items bigger items larger items we talked about that aren't specific we'll we'll listen back and try and change it I'm hopeful we can we can get there that's great and I just let you know that we did wrap up traffic peer review that wasn't mentioned at any point so yeah I was going to mention that too that's great yeah so when do you think the next how um two weeks Luke two weeks yeah that that
might yeah I think it's three weeks three weeks right February 13th is what Shen and I had talked about is the next one the the 13th okay yeah we'll we'll figure out a way okay okay I don't think there's much in the way a site plan changes and that's I think horley Whitten the peer review I think we could have that done by then a lot of the comments from the previous design were still applicable so I think that's in a good spot um agre one thing I I I also
want to say is thank you for getting materials to us a week in advance of our meetings it's really helpful um and very responsive to the things we've asked for and what you get to us so thank you for that in approaching this next meeting is there any benefit if I share things like construction management ahead of time absolutely that would be great yeah sure sure and again we can provide that template for you you know whatever you need for yeah I'll certainly sh connect with Cheyenne and try and see what we have
even taking some of your um text boxes out of your um you know the big you know on your plans you know taking the the the list of trees off of your plan and just putting it in a you know a word dock is even helpful CU list of tree list yeah because looking at a big plan and then you know just looking in the um the plant list is what you're looking for yeah that's on the pl correct it's
on the plan but putting it on um just a word dock might be a little bit helpful it's just a hassle to read the plan and then just scroll over and zoom it up and then you know if you I mean if you had a 2 by3 in front of you it would be great but if you're trying to do it on the computer it's just cumbersome for Bayman like me and the CAU I have about that is that uh you don't want to have inconsistency between the plan and and another document I think maybe what if
there's things that some of these things are boiler plate in terms of the notes but some of them I think are more tailored right to things that we've talked about and maybe what you can do is just highlight for us which ones are the ones that we've asked about or talked about um not so much a plant list but I was thinking about the um tree protection and the um the uh soil erosion plan and I think my Approach for the next meeting you
know taking this list I I'll I'll go through and I'll Point them all out to you showing what we changed what we added what the notes were so it's clear what was added and what's stated for those items thank you okay great all right so um with that um I would entertain a motion to move um the zero Blue Hill AV uh public hearing um to let's say we have um we do have um MPC coming so maybe we should say um and
we told Josh we could put him on early in the evening so um should we say in 8:00 pm or 7 7:30 7:30 just in case so okay so uh I'll make a motion to continue the um site plan approval public hearing for zero blue to February 13th at 7:30 p.m. second second all in favor I great thank you so
much you on the 13th you too thank you okay um so now at this time we can open uh reopen um special permit site plan approval for their Nursery continued from December 19th um you refuse yourself and we'll welcome the team to come up here um was there anything you wanted me to read um or Maggie Maggie anything you want m is
there anything or does Marian have everything that you would I think Josh has should or Josh has okay sorry whatever okay I didn't know if there were any materials that needed to be left or okay great I think um yeah we'll explain we have a really full agenda for tonight which I apologize to everybody um but we are we are packed so what I thought you could do um if you could Maran is um because we spend a lot of
time you know going through um sort of a lot of um the application and I thought if you could just give sort of a brief summary of where you are um I would love to do if you could do it in 10 minutes and then I would love to give or 15 minutes I would love to give the public opportunity of 15 minutes as well and then let you close um and then give discussion time
so just to keep us on and so please feel free to go ahead it's been a while since we met um and we needed some time um because um the planning board asked for a more detailed review of existing conditions at at um they Nursery um and as you probably know um we do not have a Building Commissioner at the present time we have assistant building
Commissioners two of whom are a part-time and one of them was out sick we did manage to get the inspection done it was done um not too long ago and the planning board has I'm going to recap and go back but the planning board has received a letter from um inspector Walter White um and he prepared a more detailed checklist what he looked at um and uh what's been what's been filed um pretty much everything all the details that are
in the conditions for the permit originally issued in 2016 and the renewal permit that was issued in 2019 there were a few small changes in that renewal permit so it looks like whatever he's reviewed here is reflective of the the conditions in each of those two permits um so now to go back to what the application actually is as you know um the permit deadline renewal deadline was in September the Old Fields missed that deadline U Mrs
Oldfield died earlier this year there's lots of reasons but they were very um apologetic but they just didn't get it in on time so they're filing this as a new special permit application however they're filing it on exactly the same terms as their current approved special permit and renewal permit there is no change to anything in the oper ation or the way the site is laid out um the general ownership um the permit um being
applied for is exactly the same permit that's been approved by the land court and the appeals court in litigation with all of the same conditions um the applicants are Josh and Maggie Oldfield now doesn't include their Nursery uh Corporation as a recipient of the permit although these decisions did determine that mash um Maggie and Josh excuse me me can use their Nursery Corporation to to operate their um business so um the
application was filed by the old Fields I'm really here kind of to help because I was here through all the appeal process and I'm familiar with the details of this permit um so um Josh spoke to you last time at length and explained his current operations he also went into quite a bit of detail about how they operate um if you look and you should have have you all seen the letter from the building uh inspector if you look through that letter you'll see um a pretty long list of
requirements um that were reviewed for as part of this inspection um as further background I'll say that the board asked and there were some questions asked at the last hearing as I recall about well what files are there at the building department for about complaints what is there anything more than what we have in front of us and remember at that point you had the application you had a letter from the then building inspector Joseph hu saying that he had visited the site and that it was in compliance with the current terms
of its permit um and you had some records um pretty they look pretty limited of complaints that had been filed since 2019 I went back and and um discussed those with the inspectors at the building department those are accurate records there is nothing to add to what you had at that time so I know you asked um to go back and see if there were more detailed records of complaints that had been filed and resolved and what had happened with them um there were no
records of any complaints that um isn't to say that there might not have been something reported um a concern maybe about the hour of hours of truck deliveries or I'm just giving you an example not not a complaint I know of that the procedure for a complaint is that the complaints reported to the applicants or it can be directed to the to the owners doesn't have to go to the building department first but either way once the owners know about it they're supposed to
address it or explain that they're not in violation for whatever reason they feel that they're not so there may be things there may be Communications or exchanges with the building department that they don't see reflected in those records if it's something like that and it was immediately reconciled and the building department agreed with the applicants with the owners of the business you might not see a record of some complaint um but generally speaking before Joe praac left which was about
almost two years ago now but that's since 2019 if there were a complaint filed for Thea Nursery of course he reported it to the owners he generally reported it to me as well because he knew that I had been working with them all throughout this permitting process so I don't have any records of of anything that I had to provide assistance with um there was one comp one um complaint filed by neighbors um that was pursued
in a board of appeals case about whether or not the air Nursery Corporation could be used by the applicants to operate their business and the board of appeals had a full hearing on that they reviewed the existing Decisions by the land court and the appeals court and they determined that that issue had already been determined by the courts and they didn't they didn't need to change anything and they weren't going to shut down the operation because they were using the nursery corporation uh shut down the business so um where we are tonight is that we have the inspection
letter um which was what you had requested um we don't have a lot of additional information to provide tonight um there I believe I received late this afternoon a letter from Attorney Dunn who had uh been at the last hearing didn't have a chance to read review it in too much detail but it seems as though the letter is going over the requirements that are in the in the bylaw the 2016 special permit and the
2019 renewal and the point that we want to make over and over again tonight is we are not asking for anything different than what's in those those decisions and we have had an inspection and the building inspector who did a rather very thorough job I think has determined that there is no nothing that's in violation currently on this site um any external um approvals or licenses that have to be obtained and that sort of thing this is the time when their
Nursery certainly goes back and checks on that they they did talk to the fire department for example about whether they needed a separate permit for I think their mulch storage fire department has determined they don't primarily because the amount is so small um and then I think they're um trying to think what else well licensing for their vehicles is something they do in a reg regular basis but they their vehicles are licensed as Farm Vehicles these are the trucks that are used for the business and so they're they're licensed
and Josh may be able to explain that better but they're licensed as one overall license for all the vehicles together um those have to be kept up to date um as you know just like I don't know excise tax records for the rest of us or something but you know there are certain things that you have to do every year so Josh is there anything else you want to add at this point anything you've thought of that's come up anything that came up in the inspection you were there I was with the Walter Whitey I presume he's the acting
building inspector correct I don't know if he is or he isn't but he did the inspection yeah so we've had the previous inspection done by the acting building inspector and even though it wasn't in detail again he recommended that our perit be issued and to me he's the enforcement officer we we had since he's left for whatever reason we have the next person who the town is having do
these inspections come out and do a thorough inspection U even though the other inspection was completely thorough it just wasn't written in a detailed format doesn't mean that the inspection wasn't thorough it was I walked around with him as well and I showed him every component of our business I we had our checklist we pay attention to detail we're in compliance there's been no complaints so um just looking to get up
to speed with that permit and the only thing I would add that I didn't think of before is um there are annual written reporting requirements for the nursery they are supposed to be in as of the 2019 special permit the timing was clarified a little bit and they're supposed to be in around the beginning of the year except for snow reports which you're do in April if they do snow clearing work if they are nurse You're supposed to file a separate report about that so who knows what that will be like
um the other reports are have all been filed for this past year for 2024 and the reports for years before that are all on file with the town some of those reports go to the town engineer the drainage reports go to the town engineer um and if the town engineer wants to come and look look at the drainage from time to time their nurs is always available to do that I think that's occurred once or twice I I don't know um
that it has in the last few months because our town engineer has just been promoted to DPW director we'll be getting new town engineer the one advantage of having these different people go in is that you you do have different people looking at the same site reviewing the permit looking at the requirements um it's not just one person all the time you know after a while probably get so used to looking at it you just don't even want to look at it anymore but we've had a new building inspector come in in the last 3 years and he has visited the site and he did do a review for your for this
application process then um Walter White is a long-term very experienced hardtime building inspector he's lived in Milton for many years so he's kind of the opposite he's been here a long time but he wasn't necessarily a person doing the inspections in years past so this again may have been a fresh look for him at the operation so I I do think the billing the planning board should feel confident that there's a capful review by the town the town does look at whether the reports are filed on time um
and whether they're filed at all and finally the reports that Josh files as he has he has shown me all this um he keeps a a monthly log of inspections of the drainage system in his office and that log in that log he writes what he's actually done to maintain the drainage system and that's up on the wall in his office so you want to go there and see it anytime you can but that's what he uses to prepare the drainage report at the
end of the year and in addition to doing a final taking a final look at the drainage um as far as the other reports required they are the number the type and number of vehicles the number of employees and the amount of material that's brought in and stored on site the reason those reports are important is because the bylaw was written only to allow ow Landscaping businesses in operation in 2012 in residential areas to continue as they were permitted um as
Nursery uses at that time and so you have to maintain a record of of those materials and amounts and trucks those are all indicators of how the business is operating they were determined in 2016 as a what the base amount was for 2012 was determined and I wasn't involved in that but there were many hearings initially for this first permit so when you look at if you if you were to look at the reports that are filed in January you would see an allowed amount
that's based on 2012 operations then you would see the amounts that were used or brought in the number of trucks the number of employees that year you compare those to the allowed and of course they can't exceed it in most cases what you'll find is that the amounts are less so the operation isn't blowing up or expanding it really can't these are pretty limited permits they only allow the same operation as occurred before and then just um there are limitations therefore to how much
can actually happen at this site if their nursery's Landscaping wants to expand it has to find other other places to do it other places to store equipment um and then finally as I told you when I we met initially this is a time this is a limited permit it's limited to the Oldfield family and the children of of um the original Oldfield parents that's Josh and Maggie there's nobody else and so the permit doesn't automatically
become eligible for the children of Josh and Maggie or the nieces and nephews of Josh and Maggie um if anything were to be continued by anyone other than than Josh and Maggie Oldfield it would be an entirely new have to be new zoning the zoning would not allow it to continue because the original special permits for this Nursery use were given to the Oldfield parents only it was a personal per permit as well as a permit limited to the site that's pretty unique I don't
think the other Landscaping businesses in Milton are limited like that it's because of the neighborhood and very unique historic area where it's located and the ongoing business does preserve a certain look to this area there is still the original historic house there's an historic Barn behind it there's another older house house on the site where Josh lives with his family and then there's there's the um building that's used to manage the business and then there are all the planting areas those are not
unattractive in the summertime when everything's you know flowering and the bushes are growing so you know there are some advantages to continuing a business like this as long as it's properly conditioned and contained thank you um any questions from the members of the board while Maran and Josh are are here with us um not not a question but a comment um Walter White's title on the letter that he wrote is interim Building
Commissioner so that is the title I assume I can't imagine he's writing something that he doesn't have for a title you must be right uh he you know he also writes in the letter that um please find attached copies of the latest business operations reports filed by the old Fields so he must have had those as well those are the those are the reports I believe that you're saying he sent those out today
the board I wanted to make sure everybody had those okay no I I didn't have anything else um I just sorry jimy I was just gonna say I can speak to Walter White he has inspected my projects for the past couple years he's very accomplished he knows exactly what he's doing um he worked for Brooklyn for a long time oh and he's as a building inspector so I I have the utmost confidence in Walter that's all and I I just wanted um Meredith if
you would I had asked you via email about um because of the unique circumstance of this having expired and and what sort of the legality of whether it's a renewal a new application can we rely on the former formerly submitted documents and decisions at this point and so I had asked you whether you had U reached out to Town Council whether Town Council had provided any guidance so I think for the public record if you don't
mind just and he emailed and I'll see if there's anything new and updated and Marion you can add to this because I think that was a question um their Nursery wanted to do the right thing not the easy thing it would have been easy um and I think initially they were told that they could apply either way but that because of the lapse of the time frame it would be cleaner to come back as a as a new permit um and that was Town Council um I believe they had um Maggie spoken to Nick Milano and he
wanted to get the input from from Town Council so they definitely suggested that it was um yes um yeah so this is this was just the response and Peter melow checked in to to make sure that your question was answered but but that it was from Peter Melo making a Rec recommendation to do the special permit um and I also asked him just to confirm because the documents that we're using are all on file with the town um there's historic
precedent that each of the Amendments the new permits and um 2016 2019 each refer back to historical the the original permit so every permit whether it's renewal or new permit has always referenced back to the existing um original site plans um and Amendments have definitely been made along the way but they're you know as far as documentation um inspections everything
has been referred to um on a on a historical basis so that's um Town Council um is um is it just emailed saying I have no problem with the board considering um considering items from 2016 2019 that were resubmitted with a new application was okay um thanks um to answer your question um so
I did have a question because we've been listening very carefully and we've received a lot of emails a lot of questions and I I think the one thing we can say about this board is we like to listen to the neighbors and we really do appreciate um anyone who comes forth with any concerns and and we like to um to look at those in detail level the one thing um because I actually spoke to Joe ATU also on his experience he was only here for a year um to see if there was anything outstanding that had been brought to his attention and he said
there were some minor like just a few things but everything had been resolved immediately by by Fair um but the one thing that I um did hear and and listen um is that and this does happen that when um land buffer landscape has been put in um that was that was IR ired um in previous permits that sometimes for whatever reason um it might be a harsh winter or a drought in a summer but some
plant material does not survive and in the in the 2019 amendments there's there's two areas that specifically um that I just want to ensure that you will be taken care of um one is um there was a following sentence was added to the end of section 4E 3B um and it says the remaining trees shall be replaced as necessary during the next available planting season if
they do not survive in good condition and my understanding is there are some um there were rododendron Mountain Laurels things that are are really special beautiful um plantings that the one of the neighbors would like to see um replanted if they have not survived and um my understanding is that you're willing to do that obviously you can't do it right now if you if you could you would I'm sure um but come the spring to replace what was originally agreed to in those buffer plantings um with um you
know I think um the applicant actually prefers Mountain Laural um because it's a little bit more deer resistant um I'm sure they he can speak to whatever he would prefer um and I know there's there's various things that um we want to make sure your neighbor is happy with with the plantings and that would ever buffer for dust reasons for different reasons um and also if there there was um some photographs were sent a a
section of fence that had come off I don't know if and that would be something um that was also an amend Amendment um that just talks about um that the the quality level of the fencing um shall be you know maintained and and kept up so if there is anything I'm sure you're willing to um sure y there was a section of the sound attenuation fence yes that had uh RI
during a high wind event that has been already repaired it's already that's already been repaired okay if there is anything plant material that is compromised I have very high standards of determining determining whether a plant is in good standing healthy conditions or it isn't so there's no gray area there exact that would be replanted as needed and some things are slower growing whether it's Mountain Laurel or Japanese andrometer um
whatever um is more deer resistant you would be willing to do that yeah culturally sustainable in those cultural conditions it would be one or the other okay so it's and it does allow for replacement if if something doesn't appear to be doing well in that location corre that you can substit it for something comparable and similar and Andromeda actually is really it's a wonderful and it's actually much more it's fast growing more it has a
beautiful white flower it's it's a great great um plant so yeah what what was changed in the 2019 um renewal was what that language that you're describing was addressing this idea that um this is after all Landscaping and Nursery business so they they said if we find out something isn't growing well can we substitute something equally nice but that will Thrive and the location along that buffer zone is fairly Shady um and all I can say is
you've received the assurance that the plants will be replaced that aren't thriving but they may be there may be some more discussion or they nursy will try to select something that's going to do well because you can plant it but then six months later it's it's dead so tree replacement is similar again the the little bit of leeway that was allowed in 2019 in the renewal was that if you found that a species of tree wasn't doing well you had you had to replace it but you could replace it with
something that would do better but the aggregate of the total number of plants that are there today exceed what is permanent so um we're just talking okay you know manua here really okay but it's an assurance that that the app will there's something that wasn't um surviving okay any other questions from members and then I'll um we'd like to give opportunity if those are um
Cheyenne I don't know if you um have anybody who would like to speak um on this permit who's on Zoom um uh we have Matthew dun okay and you know what for um just for the purposes again because we have quite a bit um if we could just limit all of the um the public speaking uh to a three minute if you could um so we last time we had
to we didn't allow off please off Mr Dunn is on oh sorry wait can you let my attorney Mr D and if he has to speak for more than three minutes could you they were supposed to get 15 and they got almost 25 okay we started at 8 um almost 8:20 but it was it was about 820 okay y all right so yes I don't want to cut him short certainly your attorney but I just
we last time we were we didn't allow other people to speak so I just want to make sure we allowed so yes Mr Dunn please uh good evening uh Matt D on behalf of Phil jording and John row again um this is just really to uh follow up on a letter that I submitted at 1:00 today to uh to the planning board um outlining Mr joing and Mr Rose's position um uh with regards to this application which is it's a new application that's being submitted under the Landscaping Amendment the
Landscaping Amendment actually provides an exception um to the local zoning which is to allow a uh a business to operate in a residential neighborhood and and the protections that are provided for in the uh Landscaping Amendment are designed um not to make it easier for the to uh obtain uh the zoning relief that they need in order to operate their business but it's to protect uh it's protect the neighbors and um I think if the if the board were
to look back um at the original application um that was submitted by the in 2016 the amount of detail um that was provided to the board um and the detail findings that the board made based on the information that was provided I think that provides a um a good framework for where things are supposed to to be with regards to this new application that's being submitted here today um the the obligation under the under the Landscaping Amendment which um
you know we didn't write um we didn't control what the requirements are um the Attorney General uh approved this um and those requirements um are listed in detail um and it's it's for the this planning board to R View and assess and to include um the specifics plans rules and specifications uh with regards to the um
uh fairs compliance with what the obligations are under the bylaw Amendment it's not respectfully to the building inspector to do that um you know this is is being treated um in substance like a renewal of the um uh of the prior permits when it's actually a new permit and therefore subject to the requirements of the bylaw Amendment you know submitting the the plans that are that are spelled out in my letter um you
know existing condition plans drainage PL specifically um is Street Improvement plan signs firewood plan those are um those are all stated in my in my letter uh along with the the purpose of the of the bylaw amendment in the process which was approved um in what the um the criteria for this board to assess their's compliance and and um eligibility uh for the zoning relief that's provided in it so um you know the
my letter you know I let it sort of speak for itself with regards to the content um hopefully everyone's had an opportunity to read it um but it's it boils down to um the board can't Outsource the um uh the requirements uh of the of their's compliance the the information that they need to submit and the information that this Board needs to analyze in order to determine whether um
uh the applicants are eligible and comply with the requirements of this amendment you can't Outsource that to the to the um uh to the building inspector um and and his assessment although helpful and provides some guidance to the board um is not a replacement for the board's own assessment of uh of the information that needs to submit um and that you guys need to assess and then determine whether there's compliance with uh with the requirements and include uh your
findings in ultimately your written decision uh that weaves in the facts that are provided um and the information and evidence provided by there um with uh your own determinations so um you know that's that's really where we're coming from here um you know this is it's designed the bylaw Amendment is designed to create a process uh to balance out the um uh the protections that the the neighbors are entitled to versus you know their's uh ability to
conduct uh their business operations in this residential neighborhood in a way that um is compatible with the residential n nature of the area and so um you know to sort of speed by this and rubber stamp it treating it like it's a renewal perment and relying on uh information that was submitted in 20 in uh 16 um that's BL Le stale um you know is is kind of doing it as service to to the neighbors including my clients
so um that's where we stand uh I'm happy to you know to respond to any questions that the that the board may have but um you know the points that I didn't make here I just refer um the this board and the public to the letter that I submitted today great thank you thank you very much any questions um Mr Dunn from the board no no all right I don't thank you very much um
thank you yes um Cheyenne is there anyone um else who would like to speak there is one hand um Denise Swinson okay you could welcome letter are we doing just a blanket 15 minutes for citizen speak or do you want me to put a timer person I was trying to keep it yeah depending on how many people we
have I just didn't know if we were going to have a lot of people but um as close to yes two to three minutes if possible um okay would be great okay uh you could go ahead could you state your name and address for the record hi yes this is Denny swensson 65
Green Street town meeting member Precinct 5 former planning board member from 2017 to 22 thank you madam chair Hall and planning board members um thank you each for all of your service to the town and for allowing me the opportunity to be heard on this important matter um I'd like to express support of theer Nursery special permit that comes before you um from what I can see it has the same
basic terms um of the special permit uh that they has been functioning under for several years uh when I served on the planning board we went over the terms in a thorough and thoughtful way and um planning board members before I served also went over the terms in a very thoughtful and diligent way the town staff has spent significant time and resources dotting the eyes and crossing the tees on the terms and the special permit for many many years um these
terms have worked and have allowed this small business to serve the community well um we have very few small businesses in Milton the business owners across town tell us it is not easy to operate in our town for a variety of reasons and at times like this we need to keep in mind that small businesses are significant to our community and for our local community you know having a thorough process where stakeholders are all heard is vital and is also important for small
businesses and our community to have consistency and continuity in our planning I support their nursery and its request for the granting of the special permit and thank you again for all of your time and diligence thank you thank you very much have a good night anyone else Cheyenne who would like to speak uh no other hands okay anyone else
um for the public yes please join us I have a package for everybody thank you thank you sir thank you thank you thank you um John R 23 Parkwood
Drive I we've had testimony today we had testimony from The Building Commissioner via a letter in the last meeting we had saying that there have been no complaints so in the package I've given you are six complaints that I made um during 20 23 um and uh 2024 and I just am perplexed that I'm providing evidence of complaints that
I've made and the town has no record of any complaints how many other neighbors made complaints that the town has no record of so I think it's disingenuous at best to say that they have not been complaints by the neighbors so let's just quickly go through this the first one is Sir can I just interupt this is the same email you sent to us earlier we've already seen this yeah yeah we we have had a chance to read through all of these um this was given
to us earlier uh I didn't say this did you yeah we have we have chance to read all so you don't have okay so six six complaints and how does this board reconcile that that the town doesn't have records of this I have a question for you did do you feel as if the um you received a response an adequate response no that's the whole issue I got no response from any of them no response no response from well one of them I got a
response from Mr auu said that he went there and didn't find any issues so he wouldn't um wouldn't uh document a complaint and that's the only response I ever had um one response I got um well nor Police Department had to shut down a political R there um last year so I guess that's a response they shut it down um what about the illegal apartment in December no response no response and
that's been there for years so this says that somebody occupied the apartment so you saying there are lights on there are lights on at night so you don't because there's lights on at night on the second floor you think someone's living there illegally is that where they going I'm just wondering trying to figure this out so that's that's a complaint that you expect to be filed with the town yep and I expect them to inspect and I believe that there's a kitchen that in that in that apartment I don't believe that that's allowed under the bylaws um I can't make an apartment in
my house and put a kitchen it in it so um another thing I can I just point out the burn permit you know fire is a very very dangerous thing we had fires in the Blue Hills um this past um fall terrible fires um we see terrible fires in California terrible terrible fires we've seen fires in our neighborhood Alex White H whiteside's house burned down um
I think it was last year the house across the street from me burned down and their Nursery got a a burn permit to burn and um they violated the permit because they were supposed to St burning at 4 p.m. I made a complaint in the fire department had to come up at 4:30 to put the fire out um I shouldn't live in
fear of fire and and I think the biggest issue with this Burning is that the nurseries should not be able to burn debris that they collect from their landscaping jobs that should be disposed of outside of their property and that's something I'd like to see Incorporated in the new permit that they're not allowed to burn anything especially um debris from their landscaping jobs um and I don't think
that's too much to ask in light of the fires that we've had especially this past fall in the neighborhood um you know as for the political rally um the hours of operation are from 7 in the morning until 6:00 p.m. I would like to see the gate closed and locked at 6 p.m and not open till um till 7 p.m. and I'd like to see that written in the permit I don't think that's
unreasonable um let's quickly go through the pictures um are we still keeping a track of time just wondering few yeah we yeah if you could just try to be yeah I am okay this is a picture of the fence being in uh um uh disrepair what date was this um this was in the winter I've got another and also somebody threw
rubbish it looks like um used lawn furniture over the fence that I look at from my home and this picture there are no leaves um and then I have a picture here where leaves are around the trees this fence was in disrepair I would say for perhaps two years um I don't it's now repaired it's it's repaired today but it was not repaired on what was the date of um the building inspector's um inspection in December if it's December
6 this fence was not repaired by December six so I don't know how we miss it but um and I think probably the most fire and flooding is a big big issue for me um and the next picture shows the flooding that we got we were we were flooded out twice in December of 200 24 J sorry January
2024 this you can see the water um how deep it was and the water comes um from the fair property and running into my backyard and the water comes into the um uh window wells and that's how it floods my cell and if you look at the pictures it's it's difficult to see but you know I've got a picture of my boot
and you can see the water is 6 in deep in my backyard um and can I ask a question on that water sure um you were present at that time so i' I've walked the site and I I'm familiar with the Swale it's a big Swale and and it has a burm that rises on either side of it are you saying that the water crested y it went over the top the picture doesn't show that well it
well this is the picture of the drain being clogged and um the sale over the top so that's looking from Hillside Street right and going on to Hillside Street so this is all the bur and these two that's the BM right no this is their property my is over here yeah what mr's talking about is this is the is the sale and the BM and there's no water cresting it right yeah but this is their property I understand that and this is your property over here over and
you can see Green Banks down running down both sides kind of like a levy right yeah I don't really see the water level rising over those but that's not my property it is your proper here's where the water is coming yeah from where the fence was in disrepair and comes across as a lane in between my property and the t's property and that's where it came in uh into my backyard so
I mean you can see how deep it is at and you know the whole issue here is maintenance of the drainage plan and I would like to see in the special permit a professional engineering an engineer to inspect the main expect the drainage plan inspect the drainage plan at least once a year I believe the last time this
drainage plan was inspected by an engineer was when I paid for my engineer to do it which was this history here um the initial permit um there was a drainage plan and we had a civil action against there and part of the um uh settlement was with that was that my engineer could inspect the um was allowed to inspect the drainage plan the original dra drainage plan he
recommended um changes and was able to inspect those changes they weren't made and then they had to make them so long and short of it is um my engineer has inspected the drainage twice at my expense I paid for this and I I don't think it's unreasonable for the nursery to pay for an engineer to inspect the drainage plan once a year obviously the drainage failed I got flooded um no other explanation I think
is needed um so and then so you got the pictures um lastly you know on New Year's Day New Year's Day the Bobcats fired up and started grading the um uh construction yard behind my house they started at 2:30 and finished
at 250 so for 20 minutes I had to listen to this and I had to smell the diesel fuel and the vibrations in the house and on New Year's Day what business purpose was it to grade the construction lot behind my house with a bobcat is there any business purpose therefore I don't think anyone could say yeah there is um I think it would be reasonable if we could uh have
a moratorium on all motorized Machinery lawnmowers uh leaf blowers anything motorized and um blade sharpening equipment on holidays federal holidays and uh Sundays um I think that having things like this that I I don't think really interfere with the business they probably will argue that it does but one
day a week to give to the neighbors peace in the residential neighborhood um you know it was a residential neighborhood long before Thea Nursery started their operation it was a residentially Zone neighborhood starting in 1938 um and and you know I I think that in the spirit of um having this business operate you know
in a residential neighborhood in the spirit of that there has to be some gift to maintain to make sure that it's in harmony with the residential neighbor residential nature of of this neighborhood and running Bobcats on New Year's Day and on Sunday grading the driveway I don't believe is in harmony with the residential n nature or or character of the neighborhood so um I'm
asking that Sundays and and and there is some there are some restrictions in the existing permit that only allow um Nursery Machinery on Sundays um that can't be in for you know you run machinery and you know how do you say oh that's for the nursery and that's for the Landscaping um uh uh business you know they can run their Machinery from
700 a.m. until 6: p.m. hey marid 7 days a week seven days a week thank you cheyen seven days I I know seven days a week I'm asking for one day a week for the neighbors and I don't think that's unreasonable I appreciate it thank you so much I I did yeah um so just real brief anything you want to say in in closing before I open it up for the board for
discussion um nothing except to comment that um oh sorry one more thing I forgot I forgot this is really important thank you if you look at the picture with the fences and disarray you can see posts I can see these from my my house and these posts are remnants from the original fence that went in is supposed
to be a 30 foot buffer Alex Whiteside before he issued the 2016 permit said there you need to move the fence to where it's supposed to be um they put the fence too close to the property line and they moved the fence but they never removed the post and I would like to see the post removed would you like to look at the post from your house thank you John I'll ask about that thank
you um goad okay just very quickly um there is a considerable detail in the original 2016 application which I didn't handle but I've looked at the files and the decisions in 2016 2019 there are there are lots of plans and documents there all there they're public record they're available and they're Incorporated by reference in this application so that detailed information is part of this application and this application is not asking for any change
in the operation as it was permitted at that time 2016 and 2019 um site review and assessment is the responsibility of the building inspector planning board needs staff and the building inspector is one of those people um yeah that doesn't mean that the planning board can't go out and look at something itself and do an inspection but we rely uh throughout the town on the billing Inspection Department to determine whether there's a violation or
not so if there's a complaint it needs to go through the process of can be a written complaint you want to have a record and there's some records here um goes to the building inspector the building inspector notifies the owner the owner corrects the violation or the building inspector determines that there is no viol ation so again these complaints went through some kind of process and determination um I'm not familiar with all of them the one about um burning permits come from the fire department so
if there's a concern about issuing burning permits anywhere in town including it there that needs to go to the fire department we're all very concerned about that of course because of the fires in the Blue Hills the terrible fires in California the dry conditions so maybe it's something to be Revisited but it should go to the fire department um and finally um on on the you know there are restrictions on when uh Machinery can be
operated when there's a complaint it goes directly to their Nursery either they're not supposed to be doing it so they stop or they say no wait a minute our permit says we can do X Y and Z and this would be perhaps on a Sunday so when I have heard of any complaints like that that's the process that's gone through there of times I've been asked at times to go back and look at the original permits to see exactly what the conditions are for operation on certain days um I don't know how Sunday operations apply to holidays that might
require some clarification and I I suggest that it should be clarified but I think it I don't believe the permit says that Sundays and holidays are treated exactly the same way however I'd have to go back and look to make sure but that yet that should be clarified doesn't have to be clarified in your decision but I'd be happy to go back and look at it and provide some clarification and and send the memo to the planning board and the building department but um I just haven't haven't seen that come up
before those are my only comments okay can I ask Mar a question sure um what what's your understanding uh from the permit of the process for a complaint and where the how where the pl complaint starts from a neighbor how does it move from there where is it supposed to go first well it can go either directly first of all there is a process
described in the permit that's what I'm asking but it is but there's a legal process and it's the same process because everybody including the neighbor who's complaining and the person who owns the property who's being complained against has a right to do process and that's why there has to be an understanding of how this works so the complaint has to be received by the owner of the property in order that they can respond to it and act on it and they're given a reasonable amount of time to respond usually about 20
days if a complaint is filed with the building department the building department has to respond in some fashion within a certain amount of time could be on the phone it could be a letter if there's no response within the time and I think it's 20 days it might be 30 then the person made a complain complain to the board of the k file a complaint with the board of appeals an action with the board of appeals the board of appeals has to take up the complaint and decide the merits of the complaint that way hopefully these things are resolved most of the time
before they have to go to the board of appeals okay um the planning board um the planning board isn't directly involved in that process the planning board if it found it was dissatisfied with something compar you know as the operation compared to the allowed permit allowances in the permit planning board could on its own initiative initiate a public hearing and to discuss what they consider to be things they are dissatisfied with in the operation that hasn't happened to date to my knowledge
but that is possible that's just part of the public process it's allowed when you have a special so um our neighbor here tonight gave us that's it might be five four or five complaints that the neighbor filed with the building department What complaints have been filed with your client from the neighbor are you familiar with all the complaints excuse me for a minute you you outlin a process where the complaint could be filed either with the billing department or filed directly correct um
I'd have to direct that to the owner have you receive complaints directly from anyone from me directly from from of the neighbors whether exactly yes negative no I would I would like to I would prefer that approach myself could I just make one comment their Nursery has a no trespass order against me Phil and anyone who lives in my home at 235 dve I'm not allowed to talk to
them oh I don't think that means does that mean you excuse me if I could ask does that mean you cannot send an email to them I it's a no trespass order and as far as I know I am not allowed to have any communication with them I'm not an attorney so I don't I don't know how not either but they're the ones that filed it our attorney said that he didn't think it was worth anything but he advised us just to stay away from them okay so so can I complete can my question so these are the complaints
then that you have if if you didn't have a no trespass with their Nursery you would have sent these to their but because you have no trespass you sent them directly to the billing department so there's no other complaints other than these we don't know the town has no record of these well I assume you would have a record of anything you sent and this is what you produced there may be other neighbors who have made similar complaints we don't know that we don't know that either but in terms of your residents these are the complaints from your residents that's all I can find on my machine which changed that's all I
needed to know I can only go back to 2023 good thank you could I make you know what we we actually have to move on because we have a huge agenda and I my apologies but I would like to say one thing please um one minute and we we do have that's fine Phil Jo Henning 23 park with Drive the town has shown zero enthusiasm about enforcing anything um and I I mean we
have had zero luck with ATU I I don't think I mean he's supposed to respond to us he's supposed to tell us what he did to resolve the problem and and he doesn't uh I think either it's resource or will or both but it's shameful the way the town ignores us in our pursuit of living in peace with their Nursery
there are a few things that could be done to enable that but the town doesn't help the board doesn't help the zoning board of appeals doesn't help um you know it it's just a very desperate situation but little things like uh eliminating mechanized equipment on and and finally um you know I I think there are very important missing uh
information in what has been presented by theer in their Biz reports they list equipment but in the in the uh if you read the uh special permit it says you have to look at gross weight you have to look at model you have to look at none of that is in their information um there are specifics in the special permit and you must look at those things as our attorney said you must look at those things and make sure that what was
in 2012 continues to exist you must do it um thank you very much appreciate it okay thank you um okay so can I ask Mar a quick question yes so following toan's question if a complaint gets to the zba um and the zba makes a finding at that point does it get attached to the special permit like for example the no running of Mach public record decision if it's um if if the
zba issues a decision with some kind of enforcement action or something like that that that's a decision by the zba that get recorded and then if they say if they say there's they always issue a written decision if it's a decision that there's no f finding of violation then that doesn't get recorded but I have a copy there's been one one case like that and I have a copy of the decision and that was the Bing and I explain to you what it was it was about
their Nursery Corporation being used to operate the business right okay um the gross vehicle weight um additional information about trucks has been U submitted to the building department um the the value that information is used when you want to replace a truck that's what that's about so if you want to replace an existing truck you have to have the gross vehicle weight and some other I don't know what the terms are some other things that describe the size of a truck that were talked about quite a bit 2019 when we came back when they
came back in for Renewal what should the criteria be and there've been quite a struggle over that with the Building Commissioner because it was kind of vague so it was made more specific and now if they replaced a truck and I'm not sure that they've done that recently they need to show that the new truck is equivalent in in terms of those criteria to the one that's being replaced and the reason you can't just say you know it's length of truck or it's um the size of the engine is because um truck models keep changing and the effect of those
criteria may be a little bit different so I think in your permit that when you renewed the permit 2019 I think you had some language about um Energy Efficiency or something like that being an important overall criteria justifying some changes perhaps in in the characteristics of the replacement vehicle okay so just sorry any other comment like from the board I just wanted to be able to finish with the the board's comments I have I have one question for
for um uh Josh is there is there anything that you feel you could do to address any of the uh complaints that have been made here tonight what concern like the post removing the PO well I guess I'm asking that would you be willing to cut those down and and and make it at least aesthetically a little easier to look at no
problem the fencing has been repaired that and and Josh I'm thinking cut it to within like cut 6 eight inches of the ground or flesh is even better yeah and that way at least it goes away would that be acceptable to you they should be removed that's what um you won't see for the in the 2016 permit was issued um based on Alex white side saying you got to
remove the fence you have to move it and that meant removing the fence that they put too close to the property line and moving it back so yeah if they shave it down you know flush with with um uh the ground I'm I'm fine with that but you know 6 in above no I'm not he just said he'll cut to flush fine okay great all right so Cheryl I yeah yeah I just um I think given the importance of the
drainage you know I am one who actually was on the board for the original permit and for the renewal um so I have heard from Mr Ro Mr Henning in those hearings and recall um their concerns and drainage is one of the largest concerns um so I don't think it's unreasonable to um honor the request to have an engineer inspect the drainage system um
once a year um it seems like that would give an some extra level of assurance that the system's working properly um these systems uh we know from well I think maybe um Meredith you were on the board for the three 33 brushel Road where the system wasn't working properly and there was some flooding as a result so um we're not experts at these systems and so I I don't think that's
unreasonable given the the level of concern that that has been since day one um I also don't think it's unreasonable to ask for the gates to be closed uh or for to make there AR any well there's something that you put in front no no all right um there's not when you're closed there's not something that comes across the driveway no um well again I I I don't given that it's intent property that's the problem yeah
well but I mean I understand the con standard protocol to for businesses and other entities to have annual drainage inspections um I think it it depends on the I don't recall what the um permits for all the projects are honestly so we'd have to go back and take a look I just think you're overstepping your bounds and then uh well if I'm doing
monthly I'm I'm literally checking this thing you see the dates I saw them they go through December of this past year so what happened to us in January traditionally there's been no inspection between mid December and mid-march so that we us susceptible to flooding if you look at all of the logs in that period sorry you know we can't just so so I just want to get to the um
the comment about the gate then it really has to do with a use um where noise is generated on a regular basis when the business is in operation so I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that having activities Beyond those hours which generate noise um really shouldn't happen um because you know noise was one of the again of for business operation um and then possibly they I have a 14-year-old son and he rides a
quad motorcycle maybe they're getting confused I don't know you know there's equipment that run business equipment meip yeah but this is person no I I was talking about the um you know event with loudspeakers and music no that was a that was a painter painting a barn it was a political rally for John Co you know so I I do think um it was closed
down right the rally whatever it was at at 9:30 or quar and the police department had to close it right so that's what Happ resources had to had to close this thing down just like the fire department you know what Cheryl is speaking we need to interrupt please please stop CL the public okay all right so I I I do think um the equipment is a CH is a challenge though because people operate equipment
at their homes people operate leaf blowers all all the time on Sundays and other things and there's been talk in town about um putting some regulations around that and people don't like that idea um however running business equipment on public or on federal holidays I don't think not not operating business equipment on federal holidays it doesn't seem unreasonable to me either Sundays they are allowed to operate based on their permit so um so
that's where I I think um those three items uh to me don't seem like unreasonable requests um so it's the federal holidays on the equipment um not having um Amplified music or loudspeakers of any sort operating after business hours and um and having an engineer do an annual inspection of the storm water
system comments from the other members of the board so I would agree with the um Engineers report but I don't really see the reason if they're are you allowed to be open on Sundays yeah yeah I would just leave it the way it is I don't see the federal holiday thing being in any kind of an issue Amplified music I mean how often has that ever happened only one time
okay you do you foresee yourself trying that in the per I think it's in the permit it's in the permit already so if that happens it would be violating the permit so that it is already in there that is cuz I um I did check that I remember that because yeah it came up as a complaint I would agree on the um on federal holidays maybe not having business equipment on a on a federal holiday is that something that's a
problem it's a it's yeah because that that is problem for me your business yeah yeah we're seasonal business yeah okay it's a problem for me what was the business purpose for grading the driveway up New Year can we close the public hearing yeah yeah let's I'm sorry should have I'd like to make a motion to close the public hearing for the nursery second all in favor I sorry we're going to move um so the question is and I it's just us
talking so now it's us so the question because I had also thought to Cheryl should we do some sort of inspection um you know on the drainage system Ensure give confidence that it's working properly my only concern with that is what we we have to be Equitable to all businesses you know drainage when we ask for a drainage system to be put in we don't go back and have those required to be inspected so are we is this
something now that we're going to require anyone who we asked to put a drainage system in that we are now having to have annual inspections I don't know if that's some of the other kinds of applications that we receive though are under different parts of the zoning they're not under this particular provision in the zoning um what did we require we required some inspections for the memory care
facility they they are more than one inspection that's required yeah there is what was required in this permit to happen to remember just in the annual inspection there was one initial after I think two years installation and then a maintenance a report full operation they did have an engineer inspection so I mean maybe it's not annually but at some point it does seem like after something's been in operation eight
years or six years that there be another inspection and so maybe it's at renewal dates you know so so one of the one of the um so you gave you had two sort of a no inspection and inspection contingency um yeah the the problem with inspection is you don't do it in the middle of the winter and this happens to be coming up in January so you would need to decide what a reasonable time if we did do one in the spring Maybe Upon renewal um it's
going to be three years that they'll be back before us um is the public meeting still open no no Mar's Mar's talking it was a question sorry um so there is we did did have a decision that does have that would require in the spring that there would be um just an engineer just to make sure that the system is working appropriately it seems like
um we could ask that um it wouldn't be on an annual basis but it would be just to ensure per this permit that it is in working in in uh working condition MH and then if there was anything that was found to be insufficient that the remedy would be made according to the recommendation of the engineer in the report right so
it's not just an inspection that has no followup right yeah because it would have obviously that would be um because this I'll just read by July 1st 2025 the applicants shall have their drainage system inspected um by their choice of either engineer or the town of Milton's engineer to attest to compliant operation of the drainage system by providing a letter to that effect to the planning board so it's saying they have to come into I I think my interpretation is it has to be brought into
compliance because it it has to an engineer to attest to compliant operation of the drainage system by providing a letter to that effect to the planning board so if it was not that would need to be remedied so that we would have that we would be provided some sort of of a compliant letter so I take that as working as designed right I mean I'm the in the inspections you know this is from my experience the inspections are
normally um to make sure that there isn't a deterioration of what was initially built or a lack of Maintenance of what was built you know because it relies upon um infiltration you know and if that if the bed of that s is Laden with you know material leaves and it prevents infiltration it's not going to work so the the whole idea behind inspections is to make sure that what was built originally hasn't deteriorated and still has the ability
to function the way it was designed that's typically that's typically why they do it so um I happen to go up there you know a couple of months ago because I wasn't familiar with it at all and I I didn't didn't even know what that drainage swell was like but now I do you know it's it's actually really well built and it was in really good condition so um uh but anyhow that's that's the norm for an inspection gotcha yeah I was just not to change a design you know it's not it's not the idea
that's not what inspections are for good so the fear is that if they change the flood plan or s or some new EPA ruling comes down when we do the inspection these guys have to rip it out and put in something bigger I'm just trying to avoid that and I guess that's not an issue so I'd be fine with that language make sure that it's operating as as designed does that seem reasonable um as attached to this because I I think that's that's we want to give peace of mind to the neighbors certainly um and make sure
that and for your sake too that it's working um you recall where you in the permit um Meredith where the Amplified music was or or any amplification it's the hour it was the um it was really the hours of let me see if I can pull up I don't think the words amplification were in there but it was um the hours of
operation it's in The Zing bylaw it's not in the permit it is in the permit too is it no Amplified amplifi mus never be allowed remember Alex say in the in the zoning y yeah okay so so that is something that is VI so it's already there so it's in it's in the general um zoning byla so not this special permit okay I guess I'm speaking to the board members um you know
wherever it is assuming it's out there the way it functioned is the way it should Joe ATU responded and it came up and there was the music had ceased playing so before he got there the way he writes it there was no there was no presence of music you know I think it was a daytime that was that was a daytime incident um and then there was an evening incident which Cheryl I think was also alluding to after hours so so both of those the after hours that I was that's what I yeah she was not the
painter playing his radio was not that um it's the idea that after hours this is supposed to be a quiet location and I I think that's yeah and that is in and I think that's reasonable right the only problem there is what if they want to have a family party Family graduation or something on that site not pered after hours I'm just wondering how how would that work if Josh wants to have a graduation party for his kid or
something to that effect yeah I think that's we are we robbing him of the quiet enjoyment of his property he does live there well it's technically run as a business so I think I would say yeah he she should probably reach out to neighbors if he's going to try to you know give get permission if doing anything but if we write that in as a condition then he won't be able to do that period right well it's it's operating as a as a business so
technically you know any any operation anything going on at the business after hours I think it's sort of an understood that um different events won't be going on but I would say reach out to neighbors if he wants to you know maybe have a family event or something but okay bringing it up just no I know that's a that's an issue yeah
yeah okay okay um so are we are we ready to how does the board feel on making a decision um which would include the inspection contingency of the drainage system yeah I I uh that and I also would like to uh make sure that the decision includes the commitment to cut down those posts to make that area look
aesthetically better I think there was some landscape um additions that were going to be replacement replacement of um of shrubs that um could either be substituted or replaced isn't that already in the original permit also it was in the 200 it was at an amendment to 2019 so because I walked it two days ago and I found so he's
agreed to do that what is back in but I just wanted to flag it as something that so so the um the removing the post was not in the in the last Amendment or in the original um but the landscape replacement was was so that's and and the replacement of any fencing ongoing but that has already been addressed so so um Meredith you mentioned
um the equipment on federal holidays um how many federal holidays in the year are there um that you now there's more yeah that you I think there's six 88 12 yeah we're not supposed to talk 12 well that's just that's not a um answering that question is really not
part of testimony but it's still too much of a restriction on any business there's so many federal holidays you know what what are you thinking to to restrict one on federal holidays especially they should be restricted to the Sunday hour and the Sunday operations it seems I mean that's what other um typically your public services run on a let's say your MBTA runs on a a
Sunday schedule on a holiday again it comes back to the intensity of use of a of a business use in a neighborhood and when there is some reasonable expectation that there will be some quiet time we've talked about this with Milton Marketplace that there should be some point in time that people get a little break from the the business activity use that use M Luther King uh day as an example right was the marketplace restricted Milton
Marketplace on that day well that permit doesn't require them to be on that day okay but I'm just talking about businesses why why place a restriction on there on that same day it's an noisy operation it can be a noisy operation not every hour of every day right we've heard testimony from Neighbors that there's noisy operations um that are at early hours and and and late hours maximizing the
time frames and you know so we're talking about 12 days a year that would provide neighbors with a a little bit less of that doesn't seem a a burden or hardship um and some of those holidays are in the winter like we just had when I don't believe they're doing a lot of operations on site at that time so we're talking about less than 10 or 12 yeah so the the noise operations of the marketplace I are are different their
hours are um they have their own restrictions based on what's been worked out in their permits over the years yeah my point you had suggested it was a it was because of businesses should have restrictions I'm just not in favor of restricting a business I just I'm just not in favor of that um but that's just my opinion we we talk often times about businesses and residential neighbors next to them and this board has consistently been considerate of what those neighbors
concerns are when there's a business operating right next to but does the current perment have that restriction it has restrictions on Sundays it doesn't but not on federal holidays yeah I but they're in for Renewal and we're hearing testimony and we're at we're asked to consider some particular um requests um so you don't agree so you know the the the four of us have to State our opinions my opinion is that I don't think that's an unreasonable request to to operate on would be
limiting hours so it would not be um it would be a Sunday schedule on federal holidays we only have 36 weeks during the year taking away two more weeks we're not taking two they wouldn't take two weeks you're still operating yeah me I I might consider it if there were no other limitations on the on the business but there are so many right now that I wouldn't want to restrict him anymore it doesn't have a right to run in yeah if Josh can speak I can speak and
what I'd like to say it was a question we were asking it was a question no no subsection n says it's for the protection of the neighbors of the neighbors not the business not the business okay so your feeling is you don't want to add a further restri restrictions I I appreciate the engineer report I appreciate cutting the posts but that's about
it was there anything else Cher you had on that list other than because we've got the the Amplified music already covered in the um in the general bylaws and music no okay Sean how do you feel about uh I'm I'm in favor of the inspection um of the drainage system at the time of renewal I think that would be a really good practice you know by the July 5th date okay yeah I think that's a good I
think that's a I think that's something that's really important honestly and I think it would be and the post being remal and the post being removed okay all right I would agree with those items um so we have a decision but we would like to amend um with those two additional items um adding the well the drainage is already in here so that's already in your decision um and maybe just in subject to also removing the the
post are you looking for a draft from me is that what you're asking so we yeah we if you could um I can do it if you want me to I know you that doesn't that would be great based on the draft you were given us a previous draft um okay So based on that um if you could prepare that just including um the removal of those those posts what about the landscaping and the and and and replacement of the Landscaping which is actually in the 2019 permit but been
done yeah been done to replace I can put that in as a third condition if if you the board is asking clity the board is writing the decision I'm writing a draft so of course you put it in if I don't put it in but I understand you want three conditions Okay so um to the point of replacement if it I don't know how long the next growing SE the plant materials or fences you know when they're damaged how long they have
taken but it doesn't seem unreasonable to put a time frame on the replacement and the fixing um so that again there's more the neighbors have something um that they can go back to and say it's been 6 months or two months and you were supposed to have it done in two months so you know I know winter conditions as you said for planting you know so um you know if we said within seasonal you know it that's what it says in the um in the
2019 Amendment okay I can pull that up it does say seasonal when seasonally um right so if we said you know within a a month of U conditions being suitable for you know plant replacement or something like that and you know within I'm just trying to put time frames you know I don't know if it's a month on a fence if you have to get somebody to come in to do it but I think it's we should put a
time frame in so we saying vegetation replacement and fence repair I me just well I there's I'm trying to draft a motion here so we can get this moving so I mean we're going to mention replacement of the vegetation and repairs of f which has already been repaired I don't think you can make a motion until we review a decision that's in so the motion would be to approve based on a written decision which we don't have yet I was going to make a
motion based including an engineering inspection at the time of renewal cutting of the post replacement of vegetation authorizing Mar mandrick to draft the proper documentation to beide at the board at next meeting well you be done with this the board is supposed to write its own decisions so to make a motion to authorize the applicant attorney to make the to write the decision is inappropriate in my mind so I I think that you know what we have
done in the past is applicants attorneys have submitted a draft to us we review it we edit it and then we make a motion to approve based on that final decision um and so since I've been on the board I always felt as if the board should have have a template for a decision and with all the issues that we normally address and that the board and staff should write it but it it has not happened that way in my time on the board you've nine years right happen in N years frustration that
it hasn't happened but you know it's one of those things um but the practice that we Mar will provide the draft we'll have that ready for our next February 13th meeting and then we can and you can send that to us if you could in advance so we have time to review that right so I have four conditions and I've listened to what you said and you can repair my language but right I will include the four that I
heard tonight and if I miss heard you'll you will correct that that's why any draft from an attorney for an applicant is never the decision yeah it's just an attempt to help the board draft its own decision and that's why you can't make can't make a motion because it hasn't been presented to you can you tell us the four that you have I I didn't have four I had three but I have um inspection of drainage by July 1st 2025 and prior to
Renewal applications future renewal applications um removal of old fence fence posts to ground um and replacement of any oh replacement of uh landscaping and Equipment um within a month of when when conditions are suitable for that work so that sort of puts everything together not just Landscaping not replacement of what replacement of damaged replace
damaged um well fencing vegetation vation is one issue the other is repair of something like a fence that needs repair that's already done but if there's another if there's another condition that says if there's another Windstorm that causes some other damage um there should be a reasonable expectation that it'll be repaired in a in a time frame that we put in the the other the original permanent States office already married well I'll look at that language and if
necessary it can be restated I don't think you should just isolate three or four items here it's already covered well and there a process in place and I think would this is within a certain amount of time like correct and it states that in the original permit we'll look at that I'll review the language for you and and the only thing that's new for the timeline here would be the inspection so that's not really a new item I understand that it's already in the um I guess maybe they not four let's see I don't see four you're right three
okay okay great so with that um I'd like to make a motion to move um the public hearing for uh site special permit site plan approval they are Nursery um to we said 7 close the public hearing you've closed it oh I'm sorry yes we closed the public hearing so we don't need to put it on the agenda for our discussion deliberation and V yeah thank you great okay thank you very much thank you
February 1 February thank you Bo thank you there thank you and now we need to move quickly here so because we had such a full agenda um 10 asset Street was able to their their meeting with uh the zba was moved from the third which was originally the third was moved to the 18th of February so they um were they
understood that they would not have had much time if they came tonight so they're going to come on the 13th so um which will give them more time so um we need to open that public hearing uh for 10 Basset Street continue from 1 six um and uh if I could have a motion to move uh the public hearing to for 10 Basset Street to February 13th um and I think we we said 7:30 for
the other so should we say 800m I'll make a motion to move the public hearing for 10 Basset Street to February 13th at 8:00 pm okay is there a second second all in favor I I I is Maggie still here should we go get her she go oh yeah sorry we need to BR um get away that easy
J so now we we do have our zoning articles but I if we'd like to do real quick um cheyen you have the um let's I want to say because I want we want to get to the AG you because that's going to be that we really need to um move forward with that um but cheyen um I'm gonna we have a gentleman who's here who would like to um speak to the board regarding the MBTA
zoning sorry I took but if we'd like to Cheyenne do you want to just you had the flood plane bylaw discussion on here is there yeah that is something that we'll be um putting forth for our Maytown meeting is that correct yes that's correct y can you hear we can't hear you
oh uh yes coming May yes the the flood plane bylaw discussion um that's for the Maytown meeting correct yes and if you want to just explain what that is um I I think we can probably move that discussion to the 13th to give us a little more time if it's the flood plane but if you want to just explain what what that is and why we um why we need to um have an article regarding that or
map sure so let me try and pull up some of the info one moment what are we on Adu or NBTA I'm sorry this is I yeah I just flood plane real quickly I was gonna try to just cross that off okay
yeah I was kind of confused about why we're doing this it just to get on meeting or something oh okay so the flo PL sh's gonna explain why we have to update it it's for insurance purposes for yeah so I'm going to try and explain but this is my first time with it so um Eric Carlson from DCR had reached out kind of like the end of December early January just mentioning that we do need to update our flood plane bylaw
um and update our flood plane map and so that is to stay inside the national flood insurance program um and our changes weren't really significant Tim kind of briefed me a little bit on it before he left so it was both mostly just replacing a couple of the highlighted options that they gave us so deleting addresses um and then adding like a recreational vehicle portion which I have all of that in the folder that was highlighted by
um SEMA and DCR and then I just put it in a document for you so um that's pretty much the entire thing that we have to do nothing nothing too crazy on that so Shen I looked at that model bylaw that was in the folder and it and I compared some of it quickly to what's in our bylaw and it looked quite a bit different and I know that our current bylaw um was again done
for being in being compliant um for insurance purposes and I know when I was on the board when we did that and we didn't really spent a lot of time on it and Bill Clark was the planning director and he said this is what we need to do and we did it but I didn't uh in I just I guess want to figure out if there's more that we need to do because in that model byw it says that you at a minimum you must have these definitions in your zoning which
we don't have and it's not in the amendment that um that you uh Supply to us so can you look into that and see if we need to do more sure I can look into that um from from my knowledge just before Tim left he had just mentioned that the only two things that we needed to do were adding the effective dates um of the map which just came out I think last week so I had added that to the document and then just changing the highlighted things which
were the addresses but we can we can do the definitions as well yeah I'm just just because that document's in the folder and I started reviewing it it just made me um want to ask about that and then the other thing is do you know if the map in is added properties now that were no that weren't in the flood plane before that are now in the flood plane because there's a list of properties but I don't know if those are
new Properties or those were existing and one of the reasons I'm asking is when we were looking at the MBTA community's locations one of our criteria is whether the property was in a flood plane or not and um so the other question I had was whether are GI s mapping was going to be updated to show new Parcels being added to the flood plane so um I guess the answer to that first is
are there new properties being added and the second is are we going to update the gis map so to answer your question I'm not too sure if there's new properties But to answer your second question if there are then yes we would update our map and I'd have to connect with Allan to get him to get that done okay thanks and I thought in the past the DPW didn't they do something with this flood plane I thought it we always voted on it
a town meeting and I thought it always sort of came through DPW they amended the um there was this time that I mentioned it came through um came through the planning through planning board but it was through the planning director through bill that's um my recollection all right so Shane if you could look into that just a little further and just um yeah what what exactly we would need
to change and if this is um affecting new properties um or an existing map that we're going to be looking at that would be great all right and that's for May so it's not for February so we have a little time to get more information are articles due for the Maytown meeting aan what are the Maytown meeting article due dates again um I checked with Nick Connor and I believe he said mid to late February okay so coming up
have a lot of time we don't have a lot of time okay great um and then okay perfect so um do we want to because we do have somebody here to speak but um Cheyenne do you want to just quickly address the East Milton Square zoning amended contract with MPC so we can check that sure let me pull that up in my
email this is just for that extension of having three to four meetings and just being able to wrap things up with them it's a $6,000 yeah and it was very it was a reasonable amount I thought that was yeah not to se right thanks and he included a public Hearing in there right six meetings plus a public yes it includes a public hearing um so yeah just like Meredith said it's for up to four additional meetings and a public forum
um and then it also includes little things like minor revisions on feedback um and I think other revisions after the public forum but that is for a cap of 6,000 So currently um I believe we have uh 49,500 the other 500 was taken from util to finish up their budget um so this 6,000 would come from the 49,000 we have so just so you have that
information great perfect so you just need for us to make a motion to approve uh your signing the contract with mapc correct yes well in the use of our planning board F planning board funds yes to sign that contract to extend the contract to extend the contract yes to 6000 is there a [Music] motion I'll make a motion to approve the
contract amendment to extend the mapc contract for the East Milton Square overlay zoning do we have a time frame for that I think we said March through March through March um with a budget of up to $6,000 from the planning board budget second well it's actually for three months for three months three months and then um with the um at the
discretion it could be extended for another six if need be all right so let's just say it for six months then for up to six months up to six months and up to $6,000 so second it all in favor great okay thank you very much um and we do we have somebody who um has requested to come and speak um again we're going to
try to move just have real a brief um brief discussion on this um the MBTA Community zoning discussion um Cheyenne do you want to just um we first put this on because the SJC um had issued a decision and we just wanted to announce that um and um just sort of briefly tonight talk about um moving forward based on the sjc's decision did you want to say anything about that I think most
people now know about the sjc's decision but if there's anything you would like to add please feel free um the only thing that I wanted to add was that they were saying that we needed to do that 30-day work plan which um me Meredith and Nick were talking a little bit so we're going to have to decide on that but um other than that yeah we just have to keep our eyes forward on on that work plan great okay
so the work plan is the action plan the action plan is due by February 13th so are we planning to discuss that action plan tonight just briefly and I think we're going to have to have a separate meeting on that on the MBTA communi the action plan on the action plan specifically but um okay let's get we'll um let Mr Jordy come and speak to us and then open it up for our anyone else in
our sort of a conversation on our board on how we um next steps for that act in that action plan proceed yes welcome hello thank you um I had U circulated I don't know if you received it but I asked to circulate oh okay thank you and so if you've had a chance or will have a
chance to read that I'll just uh therefore uh try to be as brief as possible assuming that you will or have read that was that okay that's great okay so um first and most importantly the hlc has not complied with this SJC courts January 8 uh ruling that hlc must comply itself with the administrative procedure act which it hadn't done and instead is requiring now the town and the Town
Administrator to submit an action plan by February 14 uh that uh requires that the town and the administrator State quote that Milton intends uh to comply with quote all hlc's requirements stated in the hlc's January 14 2025 action plan um that totally ignores The sjc's Binding order that the hlc's August 17
20233 guidelines are ineffective and uh unenforcable because hlc's guidelines were not promulgated and I'll come back to the word promulgated in accordance with the administrative procedure act the hlc ignored in its prior process and now again ignores uh that the administrative procedure requirement must and this is right out of this the statute but also out of the decision of the SJC quote
give notice and afford interested persons the opportunity to present data views or arguments in accordance with the APA and the SJC decision itself it states that okay um it uses the word promulgates in that in that U decision 10 times so come back to that the word promulgate in law means to officially put a law or regulation into effect not
to Simply propose it and um at at page and you can check this page 9 18 19 another part of 19 page 21 22 again in 22 and 23 twice 10 times the the SJC uses that word promate now that APA uh and SJC promation mandate it's not an after Thea formality that allows
the hlc to gather uh required interested party data and arguments and Views a after first requiring in an action plan that the town uh make a binding commitment to the H to all of the hlc's regulation requirements as stated in their new document without the hlc Gathering and without the hlc
considering the required public inputs it's backwards it's upside down it's not legal in my view others may have a different view in the SJC I think has expressed on what it's in intents intention here is quite quite clearly so uh with that uh and meanwhile hlc's uh proposed uh guidelines continue to ignore the statutory wording and Mandate
of the multif family zoning act as it is stated in 40a section 3A that and I won't have to go into detail because you know that part I'm sure by heart now that uh you look at that part of statute and you know chapter 483a a1i and A1 double ey Milton can fully comply with the commuter rail station within you
know half a mile approximately uh 37.5 developer Acres 550 multif family units uh not 15% of the total uh housing units as as stated in the previously and continuing commun ra Community quote regulations by the um by the hlc so uh you know what should the town do now and I'm just one person but I I
would I would hope that in the first instance the town would uh it would make sense for the town to reach out soon to the hlc to say the Milton Canon will fully comply with the multif family zoning act as uh as it correctly applies to Milton uh with reference to the statute itself and then Milton can work with the hlc uh to do so but it it it would seem that Milton would need to inform the eloc that uh the the hlc itself needs to
comply with that act and the sjlc sjc's Mandate uh that the uh before any further process happens that and before certainly any action deadline which could be extended if they understand that they're doing it at an improper time without Gathering the information um that before any such deadline is is Set uh something has to give there on their part um to allow the
communities uh whether it's a singular person or collectively among a number of communities to give notice and afford interested persons an opportunity to present data views or arguments close quote um without that a and the sjc's uh statements that promation is in order would be procedurally negated negated um all meanwhile of course the state funding is being withheld not provided
to municip municipalities including Milton and um not withstanding the hlc's UN enforceable guidelines um th that funding should be restored and renewed uh now I'm there are you're very famili and I will I'm almost done here because uh you're you know you're you've talked and worked on for months the uh application to Milton as a Commuter Rail station uh
proximity uh this new uh Amendment though at 72.0 2 page five subway station the new word subway station is now changed to mean quote any stops not stations right along the mbtn stations are not stops are not stations along the MBTA red line mapan highspeed line uh included but again that doesn't change the reality nor does it change the fact that the new hlc guideline still does
not comply with the wording of the statute it's inconsistent with it Milton remains .95 miles from Ashmont MBTA station and has no subway station so so if you've looked at the one aspect with the and I'm almost done with the uh you know multif family zoning 37 Acres half a mile from Community rail about 550 multif family units util will have the exact precise amount there remember that one of the Acres at some private
right away that may or may not have been applicable the other possibility though is there are it seems that there are U mil Milton residents who have made comments that should plan for a larger number of multif family zoning units that are required by the statute um and in that regard uh one thought I have yes it's been seven minutes yeah thank you um Mr dhy had
asked to speak earlier so I let well I'm almost done it's just the one other thought is that in addition to the compliance with this with the with the statute some Milton res residents are interested in possibly considering more than that and and one thought on that is uh that if you look at U residents looking for a larger number of units as a percentage uh that uh you have to keep
in mind that the uh the adjacent Community classification uh that some have said and that's the that's uh 10% uh as I heard as I recall um there are communities that may have an adjacent Community um proper classification I would just uh point out that unlike some adjacent communities however the multif zoning act itself
very very straightforwardly specifies the exact criteria that entitles Milton to Zone based on Commuter Rail station proximity that some others don't have uh as stated in you know as it's stated in my memo based on the prox half mile proximity to the station so the the you know that 10% for other adjacent communities may have a degree of interest um but uh
that departs from those communities don't have the same statutory connection that Milton has lastly the action plan this is like two sentences but the action plan I think is Pages uh two and four is is is problematical because on page four they page two they ask for checking boxes with regard to regulations that are themselves even as to commute a real station inapplicable in the sense that
of the 15% that I talked about ra it's just not statutorily uh consistent and but at page uh yeah uh page four I say then page two and Page four page so I to me one of the uh possibilities here and it's up to others of course to think it all through is to Simply on all of those to
say uh there is a section 3.1 on page four and simply say uh see instead of checking box C say first of all have communication and a meeting with hlc but say the where we're coming from is we would say C-section 3.1 and then 3.1 other zoning strategy that's at the moment where I I would say uh compliance with the words of the statute which leads to the that's what I've talked about before and explain
that they've got to promulgate uh the uh the required notice and afford the interested parties and not and not proceed with requiring written requirements to what what still is in the process of being considered prior to being considered appropriately thank you very much okay thanks a lot okay
um so we do have an you know maybe it like 10 minutes just to just talk briefly because we have we now have found out not only since we posted this agenda that we have um that we have been given um the SJC decision but we have been given emergency there have been emergency regulations that that are basically the same regulations a small change when it comes to Milton the matapan highspeed
um um line so and now we have an action plan so moving forward on this and I haven't talked to um Nick Milano is um is going to have to be involved I think the select board has to be involved with our decision um my thought is we we we've been put in a really difficult position because we we have temporary regulations basically the emergency regulations
three months um we know we have the SJC decision and I don't think anyone can disagree that we have to be compliant at minimum with the statute and what the law says what we don't have we have to put an action plan in before we have final regulations and before there's been the public process so that is a bit of a challenge um in itself and and I think you know for many residents in Milton who um who still strongly believe that we don't have a subway station in
Milton that we are 0.95 miles from Ashmont um that we are within five5 miles of a communter line would would lean us to fall more into an a Jason category um and you know I think having that discussion um with hlc would would be very important I think for us um and I would like to work with the select board on whatever we decide to do um
but my my thinking is we at least need to have a zoning District which is compliant with the statute just Baseline but I think what I would and I would like to have something for for Maytown meeting um I think we owe it to the residents to have something to move forward what I would like to see us do is something that is um compliant with the statute but then also at minimum compliant um as close to an adjacent
Community as possible and I think with all the work that we've done we could at least present those um I believe a lot of people in Milton would and I believe town meeting would would would approve um a a a plan that would be um as an adjacent Community we don't have any districts that we've studied in what the density would be what the heights would be we have none that are compliant with
adjacent Community we've looked at the land area that's adjacent to the community rail station but we haven't gone through and drafted any zoning we'd have to we we would have to we have not right no you're right but I do believe we have looked at the districts um and I'll just because obviously we we'll need to discuss whatever we do but to make that District happen we would be able to put it anywhere in the town and
I think if we looked at what the density that we have um Extra Space Storage the 88 Warf Milton Hill house um the one Elliott um all the way up to the hendry's 36 Central the density is is quite High and the the height is you know I I think we have those sort of builtin um again I we would have to have util run that to see if that would come out to be a 10% but I would at least at
a minimum like to be able to put something that agrees the statute and offers a greater density if the if town meeting were to decide that they wanted to go more go to a higher density but I think it's Reckless for us to just put um any zoning without without having final regulations I I I think Beyond sort of a a you know a level that is um I don't see you all decided that
we shouldn't have a public forum in the fall to start talking about this with the public so we don't know really what public feedback is going to be and now that the decisions come forward or been issued there's been um no public meeting yet where really any discussions happened right so I think um you know an adjacent Community zoning which simply zones where we already have multif family and doesn't allow for any new
zoning won't be accepted by hlc the idea is that they want to have zoning in place that allows for new multifam so just zoning places that already have multif family what brookl did and they got approved so many so to Jim's point so before we start start talking about everything brin's done it Westwoods done it Dam's done it so that is so this is
part of my problem with this whole initiative I've I've stated I don't have a problem with the statute my problem has always been with the guidelines and and interestingly enough I looked back on our emails and Alex Whit side was referenced earlier this evening and I looked at an email from him prior to his death and he sent it to all of us he sent it to the Selectmen and what did he say quote for
the reason stated in the memorandum I am convinced that the guidelines are legally unenforceable and ineffective and that the town should seek judicial advice so if we had followed Alex whide which he told us and I'm pretty sure I repeated consistently that the guidelines are not legally enforcable we could have saved the town
so much money I challenged Town Council here you guys were here I challenged him on that and I can't remember what he said but he did not agree with me so I take some sense of um um you know Pride that I kind of came up with the same ruling as the SJC that they are not legally enforcable I didn't go to law school I am in season five of Suits so I have a little bit of
um knowledge however I find that if we had taken the advice of Alex Whiteside we would not have spent all this money and I do feel I've heard through the Great find that they're looking some group is looking to defund our legal and I think that is so reckless and carless and as a business owner the two most important things and I have was
here in front of the planning board we need good lawyers and we need insurance so that's a reckless decision to defund our legal um but I am concerned about um filling out the the action plan as Mr DH had stated I looked through the action plan the first action plan that was um put on mass.gov did not include a section five didn't include a section five
because I saved it all of a sudden now there's a section five so mass.gov is changing things as they go and I think that is highly irregular I don't think that is um the correct way to be transparent um so I have a problem and you know I appreciate Mr DH sending us um um and coming before us and explaining his concerns because I have
them I have the same ones I I have a major concern that um I don't know if you follow the Board of Health the Board of Health um have written letters to Mar haly Andrea Campbell to the Department of Public Health because of requesting a healthc care audit because our Milton Hospital is overrun and I have personal experience with it we do not have basic
health care capability to increase our density fires were brought up I live in the Blue Hills and yes we have um a fear of fires and we we don't even have resources I'm I'm the planning board's rep on the climate action committee and we just talked about this at our meeting last week we're trying to come up with a a plan to deal with wire uh wildfires they've been in touch with
um our fire department they say we don't have resources we depend on Mutual Aid we have 11 firemen on staff um at any one shift we have six police men on staff for one shift it's crazy what um you know Mary is doing to us we she doesn't have a plan for it so unfortunately we kind of have to stick
stand up and defend ourselves and um planning is all about um prioritizing um Health and Welfare of our residents and I feel like this whole plan is you know it's crazy it's crazy so that's just my two cents on this whole process two hands are raised okay
great all right Chen if you want to um sure first we have uh Kathleen O'Donnell welcome Kathleen there we go thank you it's Kathleen O'Donnell from Precinct 7 I thought the item on the agenda was the consideration of the action plan and the completion of an action plan to be submitted to the state I don't think this is the
appropriate time to start discussing whether or not we think NBTA communities makes a lot of sense we spent almost $300,000 in legal fees to find out that that NBTA law is in fact enforcable I don't understand why we wouldn't be just Mo moving along in a rational way to fill out a form and send it along to the state and get things moving um we um to to sort of revisit this whole situation about the red line and all that sort of
stuff doesn't do us any good at all you you have to do a plan you have to you can't submit something that isn't going to work why can't we just fill out the action plan as best we can and submit it to HC it's just it's just silly not to um to show our good faith um as a result of this decision we have to deal with it and we should just move along um it's just amazing to be talking once again about the fact that you know we're being picked on by the Commonwealth etc etc
etc I think we need to really concentrate on the task at hand I don't think that it makes any sense to try to push through zoning by may we won't have it organized and you won't have the final regulations as Mr Dy points out there's still emergency regulations they haven't finalized them yet and so it doesn't make any sense to push through the town meeting a zoning bylaw that actually doesn't comply with what the ultimate regulations might be I think you should just take a deep breath fill out the action plan put in reasonable
deadlines and start to work on something that's going to work for the fall it's crazy to try to do that by May and that's all I need to say I don't need another seven minutes thank you and we had somebody else who would also like to speak cheyen yes we have Matt good evening um U Matt morang 136 Elliot Street um I just want to throw it out there I I want to Echo a lot of what Kathleen O'Donnell just through just
just said but I think I'm kind of disgusted with the board this is a really audacious position that you're taking given the position that you've been put in by the Supreme Court of Massachusetts the town has lost that case and emergency regulation are in place I think you should get to work on a compliant plan thank you very much so we are discussing um moving forward with an action plan just um that's what I thought we were doing we are we are planning to I just needed some um commentary because we haven't
discussed anything about no so we will need and we're going to need to schedule another meeting because obviously we have to get to Adu tonight um but I just want the members to um be able to comment how we move forward because um it's not so simple just to fill out an action plan when you don't have the final regulations so that is the issue at hand and I guess that there are regulations in place Meredith they are emergency regul excuse me so I guess the
um it would be in my view good to get Town council's opinion about the emergency regulations I'm not a lawyer either um and the governor issued the regulations and um they're they're there so we either um we need an opinion about that and and if it's a judgment that we think we don't want to have to follow the
emergency regulations I I think we need to understand the implications of that if there's a cost to us for that um a legal cost or financial cost and I would like to understand that better before we make any decision about the action plan plan so the emergency regulations are a 3month it's a 3mon um right term for the regulations and and they have to be still properly promulgated and there has to be a public hearing process the problem is she's made it perfectly clear that no matter what feedback she gets
she's going to put these guidelines in regardless she could care less of what feedback we all give her so my fear is that in 6 months we will have to be compliant with the original guidelines you know SJC decision be damned which is an awful arrogant thing to do but I think that's what we're up against my opinion is whatever we do uh as a town as a board um as a Town Administrator as a select board we
should be enormously careful uh in all respects I don't feel like we should commit to anything um because we feel pressured to do so unless there is just reason to do it um we have in my opinion and I think plenty would agree with me one of the brightest legal Minds in Milton who has come before us repeatedly none of us are attorneys um Mr Dy is an attorney he's a very
experienced attorney he's been before the SJC he has spoken to us endlessly um as to how he has dissected you know what the state has done and when I say we have to be enormously careful um we'd be foolish if as a town we didn't consider what Mr Dy has put forth um I think every single time he has come here he has spoken in a way that is very clear very easy to
understand for every resident in town whether or not you're in favor of uh zoning uh to whatever degree you're in favor of it to 25% or 10% um you know my opinion is that the state Contin to edit language uh to serve their interest of forcing communities to do something that some communities might not have the capacity to be able to do um I don't feel that we should just submit a plan uh to to
without protecting the interests of the town of Milton all of the interests of town of Milton we've talked a long time on this and there's a lot of issues out there a lot of them are Financial some of them are capacity related do we have the town services that we need to be able to serve a growth in the town that's being forced Upon Us probably not do we have a real analysis of what it would cost to do that no we do not you
know I recall back to last year when we had a consultant that told us that if we added 2,461 units would increase the school the the number of school children by 275 people and they chose to ignore you know any additional student that would be derived from the empty nester leaving that home moving into an apartment and then selling the home to a family there's there's so many of these conversations that are ignoring you know you bring up milon Hospital you know a very real issue is that that hospital is
completely overrun right now so we can ignore all these things and eventually what'll happen is we'll make terrible decisions for the future of the town of Milton and the future residents of the town of Milton and we all hope it's our children will be the ones that will pay the price for the decisions that have made right now so I I think this is this requires a very thoughtful approach and and not one where we have a kn- direct reaction to just respond because we're
told to respond I honestly feel that this will never be adjudicated fairly inside the state of Massachusetts if we want to be treated fairly we probably have to leave the state of Massachusetts to be treated fairly and I think there's probably plenty of people that would agree with me thank you okay all right it's 10:30 um I'm going to have Cheyenne circulate um some dates that would be available for us to to meet and talk about how we me move forward I think we need um to
consult with our Town Council um Nick Milano um the chair of the select board I want to make sure that we're working in Step um together with our boards unlike the last time which was really disappointing so um moving this forward will circulate a date and we're going to um start on the Adu but I think that will give us time we could have a combination meeting to discuss action plan and wrapping up the Adu um possibly um next week and Cheyenne would you be
able to send out a a sort of a poll to the to the members to see when they might be able to um meet um and I know next week maybe we can just decide right now um I'm available any day is there um I have something on thurs the 30th I have a question for you since everything's going to print next Wednesday um and if we're going to be
looking at the Adu we should probably look to Monday or Tuesday I could do either could I can do either so do you have a um how how long do we intend to go tonight and how I like to go through like just like Adu like a half I'd like to get out 11 yeah so I guess can we decide about the meeting after we go through the Adu and
see how much time we think we need I mean one thing to me about the Adu is I really see it as a placeholder until the guy to the model bylaw is issued which will be like I think on the second or third um so I think there's things that I put in clean regulations came out tonight got them at 6:30 they're going to have a draft bylaw or a model bylaw yeah so they they did that's that's just a re revision of the regulations which
again I haven't had time to review but I guess my point is they're going to have a model bylaw right and um they were supposed to have they they said they would issue like like I think the second or third of February so what our drafting becomes effective February 2 I understand the model is going to be out the model bylaw will be out at the time that it's effective but we already had to submit our we will have to submit an article in
order to get it yeah I see it as we put in what we think we'd like and then we can remove things that that we found we're going to find that are not allowed because I think we're so are you wanting to move to discussion on the and I then I'm thinking if knowing that yeah I don't know that we need one to discuss this on Monday or Tuesday because we're going to need to discuss it before our next meeting I think so that we can have a revision that we
submit um to the select board and the warrant committee based on the model whatever as long as it does not substantially change that's what I'm thinking is you throw in what you think you want and remove it rather than and add things so this that in the spirit of what we've talked about everyone I did a clean version which I circulated the action plan you'd like to maybe not meet next week no the action plan yes but on the but I'm not sure it needs to be
limited to Monday or Tuesday for the Adu purpose right now okay so let's move to the Adu and then we can we can decide that's all right um Cheyenne if you could pull up Cheryl did a clean version which I was able to look at I had made some amendments which some of what you a lot of what you wrote captured what um some of the additions that I had made so if we can pull um before I move on I
don't know if Kathleen had another question or um if that was like a residual hand no I didn't have a question actually it's Kathleen and I wanted to address the the um question of the Adu bylaw that has been drafted and and I strongly suggest that you wait to see what the model one looks like um because I think there's a lot of things that are in this particular draft that are Troublesome I've been attending a a number of
sessions on of the adus with the Attorney General's office and the mass Municipal Lawyers Association Reba you name it I've listened to it and so there are some Clauses in here that I think that are really a problem and so I think you ought to wait to see what the model looks like because I think it's going to require a significant change and I also point out that we don't have anything in here for accessory dwelling units that are not the protected ones if you wanted
larger ones or ones on aate so there's a big hole in what we have here as a draft and so I think you should off you know I I would just suggest that you wait to see what the model looks like before you do anything okay thank you all right Cheyenne if you could pull that up just sort of where we are and Y having a placeholder and I appreciate the comments so are those forood Center B Street
how we
doing all right so the First on under the motion so that um Cheyenne you were going to just check um with Town Council and make sure that we're our motion is this the clean one that I sent I don't think so no that's the clean one article 10 the clean one article 10
yeah we were GNA just check we were G to just check and make sure that um I did look at that but you're welcome too also this doesn't it does not include anything about the temporary apartment in right this is just where it's exactly so we're not striking that temporary apartment we're leaving that in right um so you took that other document and just took out all the red strikes and I I wrote a new document wrote a new one okay based on
what we had based on what we had right okay because I felt it would be faster than trying to clean up that what I felt was very hard follow document is the same it's generally the same it it it's reorganized a little bit but the con it might have a few different words but the points that everybody wanted I think were in it okay um some of them okay they may not fly when we get the when we
look at the regs the revised RS because I we haven't had a chance to review those but so under the um purpose and intent I think we were fairly comfortable with that our last review and so going down to definitions you had added wait so what that's under um purpose and intent number two it says add dwelling units to meet
the needs of smaller households and then it says and make dwelling units available to moderate income households who might otherwise have difficult help finding houses so my question is that an accurate statement because um you know the understanding is the adus are going to get rented probably at market rate so market rate
rentals are probably might not be available to moderate income holders who are having difficulty finding housing I mean it's the reason that the state is wanting to put the Mandate on the adus is to provide housing for people who are having difficulty finding it that's the purpose whether it achieves the purpose or not I guess is another question you know because you know I look at my daughter's
a teacher and going rate of rentals in Milton is like $2500 to $33,000 can she afford that probably not I think the way we had it before I don't know why it was changed but it sounds to allow housing units on a single family Residential Properties that are appropriate for households at a very a variety stages of life here oh sorry um encourage a
more um encourage a more energy efficient and economic we have that too y um should we go back to the sort of messy one compare them we can keep that was in the messy one too I've cherls and yeah side by side isn't that that's in the messy one it's in the in the messy one it's in the messy one too it may have just reorganized though okay but I
I now you still have under purpose and intent you it's all the same that's all the same but I was just reading reading through and um is that is that the purpose is it really to make these units available well if for moderate income remember most of the housing stock in Milton is not 900 square fet or less most of it's more and the idea is a 900
squet or less is going to be reasonably less expensive whether that's still hitting the market I I but common sense I don't think it is makes we two bedroom I'm sorry yeah two bedom it's where in Milton 10 miles south of Boston I I just don't know if that's an accurate statement maybe I'm just to me words matter and maybe that maybe that's I think it well isn't that part of the purpose though isn't that well you're
skeptical of whether it can be met but isn't it a part of the purpose though I think I think the mechanics of it are such that it might not be this very affordable housing but what it's going to do is create an income stream for someone that owns the house to be able to stay in their house it's the way some people can afford to you know two families were generated a lot of people can afford to live or buy a two family because they can rent one unit right that's why I had
a two family yeah I mean it's common for many people the last two family that I was involved and sold for $1.1 million right across from St agius I couldn't believe it there's nothing affordable about that it was insane so to your point if that's the purpose yes it's the purpose it probably it's it's an aspiration it's an aspiration right okay yeah all right so that uh the definition
I I just cleaned that up a little to be absolutely consistent with what's in the regulations just one question on that should it say should it say of smaller households or for smaller households that language is directly from the I know but it's probably wrong the last the this is this does not reflect the RS that we just got today update okay and actually in in number
three says allow dwelling units on single family Residential Properties or in single family districts at the last time um or during during the public hearing of the adus they were still deciding if sing family if adus can only be on a property that has a single family house or we could have a two a multifam in a single family district and
is that multif family able to do an U so I don't know if that's been deci the updated rags to see yeah that was a big thing during the public hearing yeah because I saw multiple primary dwellings they had but they didn't say multi family housing yeah so um that's a question I think we need to get the answer too so in the definitions going down and I appreciate that you're keeping with sort of what um the state had um one thing that we're going to need to remove is the
detached uh well it's just a definition of what detach no longer an Adu structure having 10t or more of open space that's now been changed because if it's um under a 10,000 ft lot they're saying it's 5T yeah so that's that's a setback but if you think about what makes a detached unit it just is a separation from another proper another building so so it's not even talking about property line it's just talking about you so we
don't have to I'm not even sure if we need detached unit because we yeah because you're all to have it we can just remove detached unit we because we no I don't think we should remove it because we we refer to it because you're allowed to have a detached unit well at that point it would be an accessory dwelling right that would be the access but they are accessory dwelling is this a board discussion who is that yeah sorry cath
sorry you can raise your hand if you have something to add but um sixth I thought I was muted wow talk to the TV like that I am now all right well um I guess I'd have to look to see if they if they if there was a detached unit definition um okay no so in the regulations that came out today there's
no definition of a detached unit okay so I think at least for now we just removed that unless we have actually they were written on the 17th so they were a little slow in getting them yeah how do you find that state inefficiency okay so um are we moving along yeah Charlie well dwelling unit um single
family with indep can we go back to just dwelling unit for a second sorry sing family okay Sanitation so this it's the same as the rag right but um is this yours Cheryl or was this the this was not yours oh no that's not mine okay so we could either
yeah all right so what's that um oh you know what I I just was going to add to this um this definition does not include a mobile home trailer so where did this um come I made some I had made some additions to um our previous but this one but this doesn't match the state's definition of a dwelling unit what was added so that's why so I hadn't seen the state yet so so we're going to take
let's go back to can we go back to Cheryl's uh clean version on that which had the states definition so you just want to take out the red actually do do you have the wait there's something else up there that you added I didn't that we didn't disc so merid it had some additions um I think it was yesterday um and so then when we got your document she wanted this added and then we just okay we're g to tackle it
tonight so the red is yeah it's fine just didn't see that we didn't talk about principal single family um dwelling which we're not sure about that but subordinate and size to the principal dwelling unit it's separated from in a manner that maintains the appearance of the entire structure as a single family dwelling or detached accessory structure on the same lot as the principal dwelling but these again are not in the definition in this the this is expanding Beyond you don't
think we can deviate from um let me just see what you have here can you zoom in a little closer to or um larger make it bigger there you go uh my glass see because no because um the way they've defined what is eligible I don't think it's just a single family to that was the question is we don't know that yet though I think well
again so that was my question we could take out single family just put principal dwelling principal dwelling then okay yeah that would be more yeah just so have a process U the state head of public hearing I watched it they then prated these
regulations my question was and I called hlc today to ask this question and the person I talked to had no idea what was and um I said uh to them these regulations were um created are they are they taking public input are they taking additional public input on these um regulations but unfortunately they haven't called me back I thought they were just taking
questions up till the 20th and then they were going to right and then they created these regulations and so then my question was is there additional public are there correct is there additional so they didn't call me back and they're not going to so by the way on the the revised RS under protected use Adu definition they say an attached or detached Adu so they do refer to a
detached Adu but they don't have it defined so right so so moving what happens when you rush so it's what is detached versus attached is is easy I guess but is it attached by a por cocher is it attached by a port is attached by living space or is it detached by 5T by 10 feet I mean these are things that going to come up
eventually you can't have it connected or else it follows the same setbacks as the principle dwelling so detached is completely detached like if you do a detached garage it follows the accessory structures yeah setbacks but we're saying if that garage is connected to the house with that little like you say Port crochet or something those aren't connected a little Breezeway or something or a little Roof then it's the same as the principle delling it follows those setbacks yeah except that they're saying
here that detach is detached and attach is attached you can make it follow the same as the primary dwelling not the accessory if it's detached yeah that's what they said in their RS before they making up their own building all right so let let's just keep moving so just on this section um Cheyenne will need to take out um you took out single family so subordinate in size to the principal dwelling and separated from in a manner which
maintains the appearance of the entire structure as a principal dwelling so I think this this belongs somewhere else not in the definition section I think that this would belong in the general conditions don't we have that in I feel like we have that was in there condition all right in a detached structure is the same as the principal I would take out single family we can we can move this if
we want later but um principal dwelling which the Adu shall be clearly subordinate in designed to that principal dwelling exactly I just want to take single family out for um of those dwelling unit so yeah I definitely think it it's better under the section c General conditions and requirements okay so when we get to that we'll move we can okay remember that too
right so moving that past down I think dwelling unit was okay well so um if you go to bus station definition in the regulations which I I didn't put station in because I was waiting for it so which I found interesting um if you look at the definitions of bus station fairy ter in fery terminal they
um they they basically um put more restrictions on it so previously they had a bus station including routes that allow flag stop locations where passengers May signal for a bus to stop at any point blah blah blah blah and so everybody like especially in the western part of the state they were up in arms about that so under the new regulations they struck that so
basically the definition of a bus station is now um more defined and less expansive if you go to ferry terminal um it was much it was broadly written where it said the location where passengers Embark and disembark from a ferry service period and then what they added was with year round service with fairies departing at regular time
intervals rather than intermittent seasonal or event-based service so they actually um um made it more restrictive so it's not just every any Ferry ter terminal it actually has to run on a set schedule and then if you go to subway station and what did they do there um the definition they expanded the
definition so any of the stops along the NB Authority Red Line Green Line Orange Line silver line or blue line including any extensions or addition to such lines but that they had that in their first round yeah so I find it interesting that they um are are reducing the definition of bus station and Ferry Terminal and yet they're okay with the
expand for expanding the definition of a subway station well they have to put that in there because they know they're wrong thanks to our law so the problem is there's incon they have inconsistent definitions and one of the reasons and if you remember way long ago the importance of having definitions of a subway station goes beyond NBTA zoning now it includes Adu zoning but it also includes how much we
pay to the MBTA for service you know I never knew that we paid close to $2 million for service for our trolley and it we pay that much because it's legally defined under Mass General law so having a definite defined consistent definition in all state documents I think is hugely important but I just find it interesting how come they reduce the definition of a
bus station and a ferry terminal basically protecting those towns probably because of the push back and this is the whole so to public earlier I don't know why they're just penalizing Milton because we pushed back and fought them anyway let's move keep moving we got we have to go back to the document I
think one more okay unit principal at gross floor area um they did take out the pipe trenches exterior and in the regulations but um I don't know if you saw that in the the new regulations but they took out um I think we should have a different definition for dwelling unit than is in
this uh regulation you could just keep the last sentence yeah just the last sentence is the only thing that add yeah um that was before I had read yours so yeah just that um this definition does not include a mobile home yeah yeah perfect time mobile home or trailer mobile home
trailer whoever mounted a mobile home can be just put on the ground or drive your RV up what about a tiny home a tiny home could be on a trailer too I know it would be yeah so it has to there it goes on later and it has to have a foundation oh that's still in there good that's yeah that covers it still there
um so I had some other this is is this directly from their regulations cuz I had some yeah because what we had before wasn't and so I just felt like we needed to cuz I was going to add common areas this common areas but covered walkways and move porches and similar and what about what about base
unfinished basements their definition addicts it said in it's under this is their definition from the the RS yeah but they did change they took out sellers mezzanine they included Lofts they took out pen houses of Headroom height what do you mean took out sellers so you can't put an Adu in a seller now no it's measuring gross floor
area all right so we'll have to modify that to be consistent so what's the difference between a basement and a seller the the fact is it's unfinished so you can't ement is okay but a seller is not oh I wonder so we'll have to can you I think that's something you could probably do is just take that new definition of gross floor area from the
RS since they're final now is that I don't think it has to be done right this minute since or do we want to vote it since it's 11 okay yeah I think we should just take um what they have I guess for the gross floor area but we should look at
that why don't we why don't we since we have not had a chance to look at these regulations let's skip this section right now and move try to well it's 11 all right so we know that one let's just quickly um we don't have all the same definitions they do we can decide whether we want to add them I guess yeah and also like in the shortterm rental drives me nuts when it just says as defined in Mass General law you know they really should put the definition
because now I have to go and look up Google MK General law you know so why not just put the law in the definition a seller is typically used for sto storage while a basement is the part of a building that's I think we do want to add our language that it would not be less than 6 months I I thought i' put that in later it's just not under the definition all right so sh let's let's move down a little bit
um further okay General conditions wait what's this um what was added here just there shall be no more than one ex that's a number two
there see because up here yeah yeah there shall be no more than one accessory dwelling unit either internal or attached on any lot adus shall not be eligible for zoning dimensional variances proposing to increase the number of allowable adus on a lot I just don't I don't think you can take away variance request opportunity I just don't think that's legally allowed
but um if to increase the number of adus it's just telling people don't yes if you're only allowed one Adu per lot don't bother getting a variance because you're only allowed one Adu per lot that's just taking away a variance for that for multiple adus for multiple adus yeah a lot not a not in general um I would agree but you can't you can't try to go through a variance process to get a second Adu yeah actually like that I think that's good all right but you're
con you're duplicative of the number two on the first part of what you added the first yeah so we could actually take out that and it should be separate I think so make all the red number two and delete number two no keep yeah that could just be moved down the red could be moved down and that's the new number to thank you and then we'll strike that goes
three goes away yeah a single by right 8 is per I think we all agree on or six did the state ever answer the question on a minimum size did they answer any questions no
they you know what they added um something like with um as long as it complies with um like Board of Health or health regulations so it but they didn't say we couldn't we couldn't do it we should abely put it in okay oh I didn't see it oh what was I reading did I not see that earlier oh this is different than what I read is it oh no it's there right there I'm sorry not less than 350 okay don't
worry it's only 11:00 I read this earlier yeah and I still missed it and if we want to we'll go a few more minutes if people want to but if we can stop at any time too because we will need to go through this but if we could just get through this section that would be great and then maybe quit after that can I can I ask a question on the on the uh the period of time oh can we not make it 12 months an Adu may not be rented this is number
nine for a period L that was 12 it said six right supposed to be we had it six at one point and then we discussed 12 I think we I thought we' changed it to 12 last 12 all [Applause] right and and my next question was on
number 11 um a minimum of one parking space shall be provided for each ad located on a lot that is more than a half mile from a transit station what about the bus route well that's what they they Define the transit now we need to go back and add the full definition of what a transit station is but I was thinking that they might modify that which they did so we'll leave it alone for now we're going to have to modif add a definition
mhm we have to add a definition of transit station yes I have it up above um or I included the transit station definition that was in the RS before I didn't fairy terminal or bus station or commuter rail our definition should be in aligned with um Mass General law shouldn't it subway station commun station has to be with the RS
doesn't it do you think it's necessary to say um after the 900 square ft um something along the lines of once an Adu has been added to a single family dwelling unit or lot the accessory dwelling unit shall not be enlarged beyond the square footage Allowed by this section what number are you on I'm sorry no this is just some this is going back to the 900 um no more than 900 square
fet well it throws it out of an as of right they might be able to request that through a variance that it can be enlarged but it wouldn't be the statute or the regulation doesn't allow it to be as of right anymore if it's more than 900 square ft okay I I would like to see it capped at 900 somehow it is as of right it is as of right but if but but what you're saying is that write
some language in that prevents someone from coming in getting a variance to go from 900 to right 12200 whatever once in Adu we can add it and then always take it out right well what's the step doesn't the statute say 900 no it limits to 900 that's by right though so remember everything that is in that means that you can get the Adu as of right but
we're not we don't have any zoning that allows an Adu that's by any permit we only have the temporary apartment so what Kathleen O'Donnell mentioned earlier is you know that that's a hole that we don't have here is allowing an Adu that's by special permit that falls outside of the the minimums or what criteria that are
established in the regulations right and we talked about that before that there are some people I think Sean mentioned it there are some people in town who do just truly want a temporary apartment that was the thinking for keeping the temporary apartment yeah I'm just thinking about 900 some people do request an Adu be more than 900 square feet by through the variance process now what do they request now there is no
ad temporary apartment tempor it's the same square and I get that that's the reason why I wanted to keep the temporary apartment by law as is and limit this keep this limited to 900 so somebody who wants to turn their house into a two family can't turn it into a big one so I I love the you know not allowing it to go bigger than 900 whether it means we have to write in that you can't get a variance or whatever it takes I like it capped at
900 personally so do you want me to read that um language and then we can did you see that in some other bylaw it was one of our pre um adus but you so you don't remember seeing that like I'm just wondering if you can take away I'm back to whether you can take away variance opportunity as a legal matter but I don't yeah all right let's put it we can add it and then decide if we want to take it out later or I mean or they'll take it out the Attorney
General will take it out you go so um that was after the 900 yeah okay after number six um I'll just read this Cheyenne once an Adu has been added to a dwelling or lot or primary dwelling or lot comma the accessory dwelling unit shall
not be enlarged beyond the square footage Allowed by this section period once an Adu has been added could you read that line for me again so does that leave it open to before it's added you can get the variance hang on a second let Cheyenne get caught up here shall sorry shall
not what was I shall not be enlarged right hold on one second sorry was I um oh shall not be enlarged beyond the square footage Allowed by this section so that would that would still allow for someone who built a 600 square foot one to be able to increase it to 900 yeah okay um and I had Chey I had
one other um Sean's packing up M thing that I was just looking real this is just real quick because this is something that I I've been thinking of um so right before we put the 12 may not be rented for periods less than 12 uh months can we add a sentence that says the Adu shall not be used for boarding and lodging or
other commercial use my computer it knows what time it is too good or other commercial use you know you don't know that somebody who may rent an Adu might use the other bedroom and say I'm gonna rent that out to somebody to come and stay weekly or stay you know board somebody else and or commercial use so that was just one little thing so so should you say the
Adu and the prime principal residents shall not be used for boarding and lodging the ad as well it's under our general regs that they can't but it's not under an Adu in accessory dwellings are General reg say you can't Airbnb your house you cannot um boarding and lodging I believe it's not is in there okay does that cover airbnbs yeah I think it's short-term rentals all right just making sure I
don't know making sure thank you for coming um thank you okay thank you Tom so I think this is a good stopping place so we've gotten through we will now be next on our process and procedural requirements this will give us a chance to go back and look at um all right so we need to do Monday or Tuesday soay Thursday that means we can only do Tuesday the post the post yeah we'll have to post tomorrow morning is that Tuesday
um the 28th at 7 o' I know it's not ideal but sorry I'll be out right Tuesday you said um the 28th Tuesday the 28th January 28th okay that works okay and that will give
me a chance to also um it to I might have more the select board doesn't meet until the 20 they're meeting Tuesday um to talk about the action you know because I would like to consult with um you know the way the select Bo would also like to move forward with the action plan yeah but it's still under our purview we no they it has to actually be signed by the Town Administrator we would we would
draft it but we they added I think it was the administr before but we we did discuss it and the selector discuss it both bodies discussed it right so um I would entertain a motion to adjourn moved second favor I thank you all good night
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