##VIDEO ID:nEONL1j-J6w## f hi everyone welcome to the warrant committee today's is Monday January 13th um believe we have a quorum uh Karen could you please call the role sure we have Tom Caldwell Steve Ry Lorie Connelly Elizabeth Dylan J funling on Zoom Allison Gagnon on Zoom Andrew Co Macy Lee excuse me Macy Lee Peter man on Zoom Julia Maxwell Brian Maguire and Ronald CIA and Judy steel are on Zoom record thank you very much call the meeting to order um so thank you everyone for being here um thank you for those who are watching on TV I I'd like to give a a very small shout out um today no one in this room but um if the meeting gets kind of slow and for those watching at home uh are Milton you4 girls are playing tonight at Milton Y and rink against Walpole in the state playdowns so I was I just wanted to say you can always go down to UL and rink we're getting too boring for you here and catch our girls from um uh most of them go to Pier middle school and so I just wanted to wish them luck so that was it so yeah so um but I know we have a lot of exciting things to talk about here today we are joined by uh our school committee and superintendent a chair of our our school committee Elizabeth Carol uh Peter burrow from the um our superintendent of the public schools we're also going to have some members of the school building committee sha oor uh to present on two separate articles that we are going to be seeing uh this upcoming Fe at our special town meeting um so to start off I just want to um before I introduced uh Dr burrow and um our chair Elizabeth Carol the school committee I just wanted to indicate to you they're going to be speaking both the superintendent and the chair of the committee um regarding um an amendment to article six six of our um which was passed the 2019 special town meeting um and established a school building committee um by article 6 uh in 2019 and the um our speakers here are going to come and discuss an amendment to that article and the appointment of some additional members among other information they're going to be sharing with us so um all that being said I'd invite superintendent Dr burrow and chair Lizzie Carol uh to the table thank you very much for being here great to be here thank you yeah thank you for having us um I hope to not spread my germs tonight but I hope you can also hear me um so thanks for having us and yeah we are excited to be with you all um this is our first time back visiting since our really really exciting um news about a month ago now um from msba the Massachusetts school building authority that Milton was invited into module one um to they basically continue working with msba towards a new school building project for the town of Milton that um if we move through their process successfully would result in a 45% reimbursement from the state for eligible costs so this is obviously a huge um piece of good news for us it uh will slow down our process um as a town because in complying with msba there are a lot of new um requirements that we need to meet and that that will take time to do the due diligence but um we're really confident that this can uh be the best path forward for us as a town to uh solve our overcrowding problem which you've been hearing about for a long time now obviously um since 201 uh 19 when we formed the school building Committee in the first place um so uh thank you for sharing the document we wanted to just provide you with a summary from msba that lays out uh what we as the town of Milton are required now that we made it through the competitive process to be selected into module into the first module of this program um it does mean that we have to um kind of get our ducks in a row from this point on to uh comply with requirements of msba um this eligibility period is a 270-day period that um kind of is intended to let us do that and the document lays out the deliverables that we need to um kind of do in order to move forward out of module one and continue on with the process um and Dr brose and I are hoping to be able to answer questions that you might have um about just generally what this means now that we're in M msba what we can expect what the implications are and so forth um but there are also you know this article that we are the school committee is presenting to you um is one very specific deliverable that we need to um move ahead and our hope to do that in the February special town meeting was our eligibility period officially kicks off May 1st and so this would kind of allow us to get ahead of the ball um you know there are going to be obviously many many things uh being debated and discussed at our Maytown meeting so we thought if we can kind of get this taken care of since it's very cut and dried what we need to do um then that would hopefully allow us to be ready to hit the ground running um May 1st so do you have any additional like I I know there have been questions around the timing for mspa and specifically the module it pretty clearly articulates for this first module that really that is 270 days so we can't even though we've done a lot of work over the last 5 years that doesn't mean we can go faster it also means that we have to re-engage In terms in terms of looking at solutions to our overcrowding um so we've done a lot of work already so that will certainly help but you know it was it was pretty clear in my conversations with msba Administration that they they wanted to be sure as they were looking at Milton they you know specifically asked me are you you know are you kind of confirming that you're going to look a new at your issues engage the community so there is more we are kind of traveling back in time a little bit with this process to work that I wasn't a part of um you may have been a part of this in 2019 2020 when that work was happening here um so that will be part of this process um I do think all of the experience that we have had over the last 5 years will be very helpful in in making every deadline and where we can pushing forward slightly faster maybe than another District who is just seeing these things for the first time and so for the um the article that we are presenting to see if the town will vote to amend article 6 um just to sort of recap that and then we're happy to take whatever questions you might have either generally on msba or specific to this article and then Tom as you mentioned when sean gets here he'll be able to also walk you through the specifics of the um the funding request article which is to fund one you know 1.5 million for the feasibility study which is another element um the other element that we need to address at this time for the uh first module so for this particular article which is submitted by the school committee um as you know the original School building committee that currently exists comp is comprised of nine people five appointed by the town moderator two appointed by the school committee and two appointed by the select board um according to msba uh so the fact that we have this school building Committee in existence um just you it it's as you were just saying Peter it can help us kind of carry forward some momentum of um some of the work that has already been done um we think and in my discussions with um chair Wells of the select board you know I think we're just really interested in keeping this moving forward so that knowing we will be adding time um to until we have a school ready to move into by participating in msba you know given that we don't want have it take any longer than it has to take um the school building committee as it currently exists is missing some key roles which the msba requires to be on a school building Committee in a town that's participating in their program um the members that uh are needing to be added to our school building committee include um the superintendent of schools of the district so that would obviously be Dr Bros the Town Administrator Nick Milano in our case um the director of Consolidated facilities we have decided to um try to add as a person representing the facilities leadership of the Town msba requires that there is an individual with mcppo certification um that person would be appointed by the school committee but that's a particular expertise that um we have two individuals on Town staff who hold that certification one is the um assistant Town moderator sorry Town Administrator um and one is the assistant superintendent um Katie Blake for the schools so it would probably be one of those individuals uh a school principal appointed by the school committee uh the Cunningham school was the designated school that uh we had used for our application to msba uh they would require that it would be the principal of the Cunningham school that would be added to the school building committee as well as a local budget official um appointed by the Town Administrator we are imagining that um it could be helpful to have someone Amy Dexter in her capacity is a finance director for the town on the committee these um six members that we are requesting to add to the school building committee as staff members of the town of Milton and Milton Public Schools we are proposing would be non- voting members of the committee um the the members of the community that are um already you know there through appointed by the moderator select board and school committee would continue as voting members um so as I mentioned we're just trying to sort of move forward with bringing our school building committee up to date in compliance with when msba requires in sort of the um most straightforward way possible um we presented this uh the select board discussed it at their last meeting and one um sort of suggestion I think it was it's really like a presentation edit that they proposed to the way we had worded the article was just to add into the language of the article itself a list of the current school committee R School building committee roster excuse me um and so we you know happily accepted that suggestion and so the language of the article um as it would appear in the warrant would um say to see if the town will vote to amend article 6 of the 2019 February special town meeting by adding positions to the school building committee established by said article 6 it would list out the current School building committee roster with those first nine position positions as voting members it would then list out the six people that we're proposing to add um and to act on anything relating there to is the language of the article we took this straight from msba um submitted by the school committee so that's that and we're happy to open up for any questions you might have thank you for your consideration Macy um quick question is it necessary to list the individuals um would you rather be just a position so that if you need to replace someone that you don't have to go through another amendment that's what yes so we do have just the position list okay yes sorry so when I was just sort of explaining it by names and whatnot that's just sort of background for you but yeah the L um the language of the article itself will just list out position uh voting status superintendent schools town administr director of Consolidated facilities uh individual with mcpo certification appointed by the school committee School principal appointed by the school committee local budget official appointed by the Town Administrator So yeah thank you for that for clarifying that yes um will these people their Milton staff members will any of them have to be compensated for the their work on this committee and do we know what that amount would cost um that's an interesting question it hasn't come up I think we were um I'll speak for myself I have assumed that nobody would be compensated for their service on this committee that it is viewed as part of their jobs um in those roles and that um you know like with any of these salaried positions you there might be requirements like these are attending the meetings and whatnot which is just part of um it's part of their work but do you have anything to add to that I mean I was just going to say they're they're all administrative positions so it's I I think it's part and parcel of the work we do that days kind of undulate you know if I could just just a couple of questions is maybe just for people who don't know who are watching on television or just maybe members of the committee what is the mcpo that stand for I looked it up it's a Massachusetts certified public purchasing official designation okay yes you beat me to that it's it's like a certification and procurement okay related and just to just to again um the article um is being requested to fall into uh compliance with the school massachusett school building so this is this is way so that's essentially the change from 2019 today that's exactly it all we are requesting is these changes which um flesh out the school building committee basically um you know to what msba requires for us to stay in compliance and move through module one and to remain eligible to continue in the in the program and there is so msba is articulates these six positions have to be the other part is local decision so that's the part that we've you know as Lizzie mentioned that that we have a we've already done this work essentially we've already set ourselves up for this so these are the the remaining positions that aren't on our current committee jul and if we don't do this for whatever reason does that stop the whole I think it would so um the msba process has some sort of time limit to it in which some point theoretically one would get the money if it's awarded to us and we would build the school if that's what the town chose to do but here this is sort of bind the town until it's amended again to have all of these individuals be yeah I'm wondering if there's ever a point in which there isn't an individual with mcppo certification if those two people for whatever reason decided to leave go do something else what would then happen and should we put an outside date like until such a date because this is making them a member Forever Until It's amended again so I mean my expectation with that would just be that if if there was no individual working for the town who h h i first of all I think we would need to always have people working for the town that have that certification I would you know I think that would present larger issues than just msba um but if we were in that situation I think it would be important to like have some somebody achieve that certification in order to remain in compliance and not you know forfeit our ability to um have 45% of the school reimbursed because we didn't maintain us you know a certification on our staff which is arguably just important for them to be doing their full jobs not just fulfilling the role on the school building committee so that's just my thought on that I mean I me we want to be careful one thing I will say just generally speaking about wording for the article um and obviously you all have the ability to make whatever recommendation you choose to put into the uh warrant um we have to be very careful with changing wording of the Articles um each any changes we need to make Beyond presentation edits such as you know accepting to fully list all the members including pre-existing members would have to be run by msba just to make sure that in making any changes to language were not somehow um changing something of substance that they would challenge um so we are glad to be talking to you about this now just because we all understand the timing is kind of getting tight for February and getting the language into the article into the warrant rather um I just wanted to say one quick piece at the top of the document um from the msba um it I think provides just a kind of good clear summary of this eligibility period um it's the purpose of this 270-day period is to assist the msba with managing its Financial Resources by identifying early in the process whether a district is ready to manage and fund a capital school project as well as its financial and Community Readiness um so the eligibility period is basically our opportunity to demonstrate to msba that you know as a district we are ready to move this project forward and then of course you know the town has the ultimate say in a um in in a Deb exclusion override of vote um but I think msba is just looking for us as a District to get all our ducks in a row um sort of in advance well in advance of that question for you um so you said that the timeline 270 starts may may time meeting correct May 1 May 1st so may 270 days from May 1st is approximately January 26th of next year right so my question for you is in parallel what happens if we don't qualify for something with the msba are you going to keep pursuing for the town cuz the original plan was for the town to do this by ourselves without them right that's changed which is good so what's the plan you're going to have a parallel track so something happens right there's 10 modules in the in their plan right we're in module one so assuming these other modules would seem to follow the construction track schematic Etc through there what's our what's our plan on that if I mean have you guys thought about that and the last last thing I think I would ask on that too is in that 270 days can they can our our teams continue to work on the project keep going is there any restrictions on that so we don't lose any because it's a long time right we're going to essentially lose a year going through this process sorry there a lot there yeahor what I've heard from other superintendents who have been through this process and there were some who were admitted in with us in December who had had been through this process once before and went through a number of modules and then weren't able to complete it because they didn't get funding from the town so generally from what I have ascertained most districts make it all the way through the different um the modules leading up to asking the town for funding so the eligibility and feasibility generally people are successful and where it falls short is is the funding piece so you know I I haven't heard anything in terms of par currently like parallel MH um the current School building committee as you know has done a lot of work um and a lot of design work too to get pretty far um to where right there was conversation in town around bringing that to a vote for funding and and a number right with a number um so I think right now the focus is on going through the modules which have I mean it's it's a it's a slightly longer process uh but it is a it is matched funding and that's that's the that's the key difference here that um I think in talking to everyone involved with the school building committee and and others feel like it's a you know there are some pros and cons right to entering into that msba process uh that match funding is huge yeah it seems the the The Debt Service would be beneficial to having that match funding right the long-term debt for the town having roughly 80 to 90 million on the state versus here as a taxpayer I think I'd probably appreciate that too but that's why I was asking thank you yeah yeah uh Jay Jay was next uh thank you so I I'm curious so we're adding positions because msba wants us to but we're adding them as non- voting positions I can you explain why that is and can have we confirmed that msba is okay with us adding these positions that they require how be not voted sure so I mean the uh basic reason why we're proposing in them as non- voting is that they're um Town employees and so we're we're not proposing to put Town employees in the position of voting on these matters but rather um having them on the committee fully participating in all of the um discussions their expertise would be able to hopefully help inform how the community members who are on the committee then take their votes um does does that make sense and msba uh I think this is a this is a standard practice from what we've been able to tell with Town employees participating as non- voting members Madam chair I see we have uh another guest here yeah thank you would he like to come to the table sure Mark luring member of the school committee yes so Mark is as um he's chairing our finance subcommittee this year for the school committee and he's also here tonight though in his capacity as Vice chair of the school building committee so Mark uh represents the school committee along with Dr Selena Miranda on the school building committee the two there are two Representatives on the school building committee and so you made it over from your other meeting did yesk thank you for thank you for coming so we were just we had sort of gone over basic big picture of the eligibility period and we were talking about just back and forth about um the article that we proposed thank you for being here sorry for my tarting us no all um Macy U so I just want to follow up on the amendment to article six the language that you are proposing to use for the amendment are you intending to take it from a standard temper form which is referred to on page one of the msba module one is that the language that you're going to take and then put it into the article so that you will face leas resistance um and hopefully immediate approval from msba is that you intend that was the idea this yeah so I feel like I didn't get a answer to my question first about why is there something stopping us from putting a time frame after which these people wouldn't necessarily be a member of the school building committee because while they are non voting I imagine they'll be participating in discussions after a new school is built I don't know that they're necessary the msba wouldn't be requiring them to be on the committee at that time and then my second question was part of Steve's question which is to and I'm not trying to miss class it was germinated in my mind from what I thought Steve said which is if for some reason we are not granted the money are we then going to have to go back to one or another plan I mean so we have done a lot of the school building committee has done a lot of work they have um had some sorts of plans drawn up got a you know price as you referenced um Dr burough so what happens with that should we not get the funding from the msba which plan are we going back to are we going back to square one sort of with the school building committee's original plan are we I don't know what happens then I mean you can take a stab at that I have a thought but go ahead yeah I think it it's not clear right it kind of depends on why we lose the funding right what the what step we are in the process if it's the town voting against the project why uh the current project is um that the school building committee has pushed through with AOS Street um without any state funding is necessarily going to be more expensive to the town and to the taxpayers than going with msba right that's obviously this was discussed one of the advantages so I don't necessarily from my personal perspective don't NE neily see if the town votes down funding for the MBA project that there' be appetite to spend more money for a different project cuz I think likely the assumption is if the town votes are down it it's for financial reasons um but again there that's a lot of unknowns that kind of once we get to that timeline we would have at that point as you're kind of saying uh a schematic design produced by whatever new architect is assigned to us through the msba process we'd also still have the atic design that we have right now from Aeros street so we would have kind of two designs how similar they will be time will tell um so at that point you know we the school building committee potentially would add options but it really depends on the the reason that we don't move forward in the process to your question about the timeline of the positions I mean I think I'm just making sure I'm understanding your question better it sounds like you're um I think by definition a school building committee exists to ex to work on a particular School building project whether that's a major renovation or a new building so you referenced like once the building is built I I mean my understanding and the way it has worked in the past in Milton is then the school building committee no longer exists in that form uh the project is completed the school building committee has completed did this work so there wouldn't be a need to sort of set a time limit on msba required positions um for a future point at which you know we need still need a school building committee we're not with msba anymore I mean my personal take on this is it is it is in I know there are a lot of unknowns that's true but it is in our control like whether we comply with the requirements of these deliverables or we don't so they're not going to take the money away from us unless we fail to comply with the deliverables that they've very clearly laid out for us and that we have ample time to work towards so I would and I mean anything can happen we have a lot of pressing concerns in this town obviously and we have limited resources so that's very true and important and you'll be considering separately the feasibility study funding request article that the school building committee is putting forward which is part of this larger process but I almost feel anxious to sit here and like think about oh well if we lose the funding if we don't why don't can we just agree that you know we're going to do everything we can to make good on this like great opportunity that we tried to get for several years we finally got it you know the minority of districts that apply for it actually get invited in to receive this um yeah it's really an you know important benefit from the state so I I would be extremely disappointed if now having been invited into this program we do anything um as leaders of the town that mean we have to get kicked out of the program I mean that would be veryit very disappointing and honestly like embarrassing for us as a town I feel um so I hope that's just such a total hypothetical we don't you know it's clearcut what we have to do um and I think um you know these are just the beginning stages will it's something that all of us will be talking about and working on for years to come um so I don't know if that answers the question if there's other um it seems like the only barrier right now is the amendment to article six that's the first step that you need to take for this to keep going this is yeah this is like a very well this is the school committees so this is the school committee's like piece of this for right now because um and um you know because quite obviously what we're asking to be able to do is amend the roster of the school building committee that's not something the school building committee is going to request to do that's um the school committee was the body that first brought forward article 6 in 2019 to request that as a town we would create the school building committee so now it falls back to the school committee to bring this request to um sort of evolve it you know to meet this new um situation that we have find ourselves in which which is a a district um in mba's eligibility period um Allison she did lower her hand but Jay's is up there hi yeah sorry um okay yes so I had a question about um kind of going off Steve and and you know the plan so if this doesn't go like what are we doing in the interm because we're looking at uh down the road like what's our shortterm Solutions because we're on like five or six years of the building committee being together and it was to solve space but we also need to think um about the short term as well as the long term so I just wanted to know if there was a plan for that thank you sure so we um we we've just been discussing this at the capital planning Improvement committee Capital Improvement planning committee sorry I'm like I always get that mixed up um yes so yes we've just been discussing this um and it will be coming back before you all um that will likely be for the May town meeting um but we are continuing to um you know work within the spaces Dr Bros you can outline some of the changes that have continued happening like within the walls of our buildings um and we are continuing to um learn more about and push forward hopefully with the project at the Cunningham cicott library and fourth floor renovation project um that is our best option for really our only option at this point uh Within walls that we have to uh continue making short-term um Solutions but what do you want to both add to that yeah I can just say this is under okay sorry of course trying to recognize this is that that work of talis's question that work is it falls under the purview of the facility advisory committee uh for the um school committee so it's not part of the work that the school building committee is doing just to be clear so it's a little bit different from these articles but uh again facility advisory committee uh meets on a monthly basis as um Lizzie said essentially the primary goal of ours last year and now going into this year has been uh the Cunningham fourth floor and third floor renovations to create more classroom space and expand um usage of that building given as two buildings U over the summer we built uh more permanent walls and the Pierce and the Cunningham kott library in order to uh create more permanent classroom spaces as we continue to kind cut up shared spaces within the buildings to address the overcrowding in the short term uh we converted closets into additional offices uh as we continue to just like find every Speck and Corner we can um so that's kind of happening across the district as Lizzie said all these are like what we are trying to find within spaces there's still some other storage and Records things we are looking at even at the high school uh the facility advisory committee has talked through so um trying to find what what we can uh within the building given that it is the the cheaper option and we are uh hopeful about the msba project kind of long term and so trying to be mindful of balancing addressing the need with also the financial implications of all these things and how costly construction is and how do we create long-term assets for the district and for the town um while also addressing kind of short-term space challenges and preparing for kind of the long-term Prospect of a new building I just had a followup Why is the the um additional funding for Cunningham being put on the May and the feasibility being put when we don't start till May 270 days before each other yeah this again covers a little bit the school building committee article which and Sean can even more smarter than I am and can talk to uh you don't have to wait 270 days so that's a maximum length of time just to be clear you can go much as quick as you can obviously there's some limitations but our goal is to move as quickly as possible because construction costs will only go up and the need uh is not going away and so those are are two reasons we want to move kind of these things along as quickly uh as we can uh the consideration of the fourth floor is something that the facility advisory committee and the school committee is advocating goes on the February uh town meeting vote however that is a consideration that is going through the capital request it's very uncommon for Capital requests I believe to kind of go through non U May Town meetings uh again we are we are pushing that because of the fact that if we get the funding allocated in may we don't have access to it till July and then we lose this summer if we get in February we have the chance of being able to do some construction work in this upcoming summer and so again time of the essence and the sooner we can sign a contract the cheaper it will be all of those reasons however we do understand it's a large amount of money um and the capital committee is is reviewing doing that also along with a lot of other Capital needs and I assume they will again they'll have a meeting and make that decision um but we are we're doing what we can to advocate for for just that reason Alison Jay uh thank you I wanted to go back to the question that my colleague Miss Lee asked I may have misunderstood it it sounded like she asked if the warrant article was going to follow the format of a standard template form that's referred to in the document and I believe you said yes and I don't understand what that means what what um I thought the Warren article was going to be will we got in front of us a few days ago but adding the current members can can you did I just hear that can you clarify so I can try to clarify to just say that we we've worked with the Town Administrator to make sure that the language of the article is approved by um msba and the language that they want these articles to appear so that's my understanding of that and J I just want to clarify that I referred to page one it said there was a stand a standard template form which must must adhere to mba's minimum required for memberships so that's what I was that was my reference when I asked the question yeah and that it just circles back to my point earlier which is that um if there are suggestions for changing the language of the article we would need time to run that by the um council at msba to make sure that we wouldn't inadvertently put something before the town meeting that somehow would not comply exactly with what their expectations are uh everything in these two articles that you're seeing on this topic for February has been already run by msba they've given their approval on the wording that you you know that we've put forward um apologies for asking this um I'm new but well first thing a couple things like the state could say the you know they could like tone down the the project right they could say you don't need this you need us something like that that theoretically possible right that's the point of feasibility study I suspect yeah I mean they're going to they are they will be approving the project each step of the way right so the you guys have been the project the building committee has been going for 5 years and the population student population has been fa stagnant in that time has that changed what you think you might need yeah I I can speak in rollment so the the the the population has been relatively flat since the formation of the school building committee however the school building committee was created to address the population increase that had existed for the prior decade and so overall we have more than 600 students closer to 700 students than we had when our schools were finished being built right what our schools were built to which is what msba does right it builts your your current population and so when that was finished since that time we've added close to 700 kids it's around 680 I think have the exact numbers and can share that with you so what the school project is trying to do is say okay we have 680 kids that is the size of one of our k8s is actually bigger uh than many of our k8s so like we can we are right now squeezing those across all of our buildings we need a we need a different plan right we've tried to live with that so it's not the project is not trying to address growth over the last 5 years it's trying to address growth since the last school buildings were were done um what are you trying to get to you're at 23 kids per classroom right is the average the the average class size is just a really tough metric because you have wide difference within special education classes within grade spans right even high school right you're subscribing to certain courses um so classroom size as a whole is not a great metric again if we talk about enrollment number of kids we are squeezing within these buildings and it's around like 684 kids or additional kids that we are right now trying to squeeze within buildings that weren't designed for them and so that is the that number is the thing we are trying to address that we're trying to build a school to to create space for what can I just add one thing to that um I think one of the reasons that for me it's so validating that we have been accepted into msba program is that it shows through a competitive process where we are measured against other districts who've applied for overcrowding as well as districts who've applied for um like deteriorating buildings they may not have overcrowding but they may have buildings that are falling down around them so msba is constantly vetting like competing priorities and they don't have enough resources to give everyone who might need the resources so therefore um you know when we we knew that and we received feedback when we were um you know applying in previous years the fact that we didn't receive the funding in the previous years that we weren't you know invited in didn't mean that our overcrowding was not a problem that existed it just meant that other District's priorities were perceived to be more acute more urgent than ours at this point to your question about you know five years after the school building committee was formed the school the msba has looked at our most recent application and given us like a priority to treatment to welcome us into the program so there's I think one way to look at the fact that we've been invited into the program it totally validates that our overcrowding problem is needing to be solved um they did a lot of uh crunching numbers looking at all of our projections our data our class size they walked through the buildings um you know they took a lot of due diligence before they decided that they would invite us in over other districts that are facing ing whatever other challenges they're facing so um it's not you know it's an important question still and it's not to Discount the question at all but it's just I think that that's an important takeaway we can all have from the fact that we've been invited into it is that you know I don't think we need to necessarily um think we can hopefully shift our energy from you know sort of sharing the evidence of our overcrowding problem what are we doing to solve the problem now uh with the state's help just a quick question um in almost every presentation we've had from the school building uh Construction Group the metric you've used is overcrowding in the classrooms you're saying that's not the metric to use what is what's your top three metrics and why why should we support it what are those top three metrics I'm not saying classroom size is is not an important metric to be clear I'm just saying to break it down to a single say this is the classroom size is challenging for all those reasons that I mentioned on top of that is like the French verse English difference and so there's just it it is difficult to get to a singular number again I I think the issue is is space and it's space across the board it's space both for classrooms it's space for pullout Services right for students with disabilities English language Learners and the needs they have are growing substantially separate population and and the unique spaces they need and sensory spaces uh it it is all of those things on top of each other and those are the things that when you walk through the buildings right as msba did and was able to see and there a reason why we got in you're able to see that kids are on top of each other right there is no more like Library there is no space to do this right we have to have the meeting outside because there's literally no meeting space within the building because they needed for IEP meetings or again pull out Services small group interventions what all more more and so the the more you're trying to fit all these kids within a space that was not designed to house that many kids you just have no breathing room in the ability to do this and that's on top of the impacts obviously to the cafeterias right to the parking and uh and bathrooms and you know list goes on and on in terms of all the shared services that have exist within a building um so again I mean Sean has a fantastic graph as he's shown you in terms of like all the work the school committee's done and the math around how when you pull out the fifth grade and prek and it kind of gets us to this level in terms of like what the planned capacity was for the buildings um but I I do think just the sheer number right of the difference between kind of where we were at the end and where we are now that is greater than a fullsize school that we have right now and so that is why we are trying to build that's why we need to build another school at this point for that growth thanks okay so we'll go Liz Macy Andrew so I had two things to say so looking at this information that you had sent around Lizzie for the msba um I noticed sort of like it's a timeline in a timeline and the there's a online enrollment projection tool and then there's an enrollment meeting and those both at least in the timeline that set forth here are before the local vote authorization so my question is it looks like the msba is going to be doing some looking into on their own with information that's provided by the town but also their own information to see whether the enrollment is you know such that we need a new school or you know if they're going to support that um and then there's also a maintenance and capital planning meeting so I'm I'm wondering one do you anticipate is that the case that we will have that meeting before the people of Milton vote on whether or not to continue and then two at what point do we have to start spending the money I know 45% of which you know if we complete the feasibility study but that's also listed after um so I'm just curious like would this enrollment discussion be happening before we're spending significant taxpayer dollars now on a separate Note I had another thing to say which was um Allison had kindly mentioned what are we doing in the short term and I know that there had been a lot of Buzz at the town meeting um one of the ones last year about potentially using um like trailers have we looked into that and what have we decided about that cuz I think a lot of people around town would like to know cuz that's been discussed two kind of unrelated things well so it's just you know as I I said that we were just discussing that on Thursday at Capital we'll be discussing it again this Thursday those meetings are at 7:00 a.m. if anybody's looking for something to do um on at 7: a.m. on Thursday mornings um so with that conversation is ongoing um and you know I think the part mark mentioned and this was something that we did discuss and we'll continue to discuss is just trying to spend our money as strategically as possible as a town for permanent assets um you know that will continue to be beneficial um longer term and uh we sort of are looking with Tom um McCarthy the facilities director Consolidated facilities director uh kind of that was a takeaway from the last meeting is that we're going to circle back to the question of the modellers um and be able to pull forward the information that was done in research about that um at this point a few years ago um so that's all sort of under discussion about the vote the second thing or the first thing that I had asked was um do you anticipate that we'll have the enrollment look into the enrollment by the msba before the the people of Milton vote and or before we have to spend a lot of money yeah so the the we're getting a little bit into the other warn article I just want I just want to name that for because I think uh our other two guests here would be really good on that thank you yeah thank you app appreciate that thank you um are you all set yes thank you so much Macy just a follow-up question um regarding overcrowding so when you refer to overcrowding and the inability to exactly pinpoint with regards to class size is the focus primarily on the elementary and middle school level versus the high school level yeah that that is what the school building committee has determined and also from the facility advisory committee perspective what we've determined is the most acute the high school is um feeling the pinch as well because of the expansion of specifically kind of like specialized Services especially over this time if you look at their enrollment though from now to when we first built the high school it's actually pretty flat like it hasn't seen the spike that we've seen at the k8s and the middle school now there's concern that that could change over time um the high school is a little bit more unique and that it has it does have some more land right around it so like possibly you do an addition in the future but as of now we we don't think it's worth building that out because real pinch point is at those K8 levels um at Pierce and four K5 scools uh and so as we're identifying kind of a plan that supports all the go the other point of the the original School building project idea which again will now have to be discussed kind of within the msba process was to uh be able to pull out some of the potential central office um portions of the the work that right now are housed at the high school take those out and that actually providing some additional space and addressing some of the overcrowding needs uh for the high school uh and we've looked at that within the facility advisory committee as well where we have Consolidated facilities is based out of the high school and so being able to pull that out and put that somewhere else would provide space as well as Peter is constantly being asked to kind of get get out of his space uh in the central office over there um but yeah the principal of the high school would be upset with me if I were to say anything other than they are also feeling a crunch but from our perspective just's not quite as acute as the other spaces Judy uh thank you joh um I think I believe to remember that the prek that was going to be added to this Pro project was going to expand their enrollment is that is that going to be part of the now project with the state thank you the the plan the initial design was to keep the preschool at its current size so it wasn't it wasn't looking at an expansion but it was looking at bringing together all of our Services Under One Roof right now we're in two schools we're at hunningham and Tucker so that would enable us to have all preschool staff in one place all services in one place um there's a lot of excitement from our preschool team about being together in one location but it's not it's not looking at expansion of that program okay thank you just one piece about that is the prek enrollment numbers uh largely for the vast majority of our prek classrooms are driven by enrollment and special education uh services that we're providing to Children beginning at age three um and then providing them with appropriate peer ratios in the prek classrooms so you know uh we're not we're not in total control of the size of the enrollment of our prek program so just to remind everybody of that we serve the needs of the children that are living in town right so that that's flew perhaps every year then because of the needs of um yep that's that's right of the program but basically you're not going to extend it beyond that I think was my question yeah no that wasn't part of the plan at this time okay thank you um I just wanted to make sure I had a firm understanding of what what was being discussed here I'm trying to reconcile something you said Dr burough that um most towns most districts makes makes it through the modules to the point at which the town votes on the budget and something you said Lizzy made me um believe that we were assuming we make it through that vote we were essentially assured are we are there other risk factors um after the budget uh vote that we should be aware of that puts us at risk and the reason I asked this question is as Mark cutely pointed out forther you kick this process down the road there's additional costs and sort of the quick follow-up question beyond that is that um trying to understand get a sense of scope of additional overhead we should expect other than mandated revisions by the msba that we should look at in terms of cost to the project so the yeah no thanks for the opportunity to clarify that what I was trying to say is that you know um it will ultimately be the the voters who decide and so that you know but up to that point we have a clear path that we could be following in order to make sure we get to bring it to the voters that's that's really what you know with the opportunity for that um reimbursement and then after the vote is that the end of the process or is there other risk factors we should be aware of that could put the funding at risk not that should put the funding at risk uh just the risk factors are cost overruns right it's you know they're Construction SBA projects that went out to bid before the pandemic right and then did a construction kind of during the P or had their funding set before the pandemic then had construction during the pandemic and costs went way higher and so their reimbursement amount was way less than they were expecting and so that is that hopefully we don't have another Global pandemic here in the next few years but obviously those were unforeseen costs so like those types of construction costs overruns but obviously if the town allocates a certain amount of money for a project the project is not able to go over that amount of money unless it comes back to the town again and would have to do the same process of going to town meeting to get two-thirds vote and then getting 50% of townwide residents to approve an additional which I I think is you know going to be that would be it's going to be tough the first time much less doing it kind of two times um so so just to be clear Town approves a budget project stays within roughly within budget are there any other requ requirements or assuming we get all of our ducks in row and all of our paperwork in in time are there other things that put the funding at risk again it's I think so I think it's a Once We once the town improves the funding then is a building project and you're working like like Mark said okay great like managing cost overruns making sure things are on track making sure the timeline is appropriate that it it's you you've of crossed all the msba hurdles by that point okay i' also say it's a decent question to ask our consultant with PMA who's done School building projects through M SBA before and has even greater expertise when when they come up and then in terms of doing all this due diligence or filling out all the requirements are there added C material added costs that we should be aware of that this the application process adds to this I mean the cost es escalation is sort of built into it just knowing that you know this by taking time to do this program it makes it ultimately cost more but I don't think there are added costs that I know of I don't do I just want to make sure we're not talking about adding consultants and again it gets a little bit into the other article but like the cost though that is being requested for the feasibility and schematic design should be the cost that covers kind of the you know traffic consultants and like figuring out the project and identify you know identifying the unknowns right and trying to eliminate as many unknowns as possible so that you have a good sense of what the project is going to be and therefore what it will cost that's the whole idea behind the feasibility and schematic design process uncover those yeah really really what I'm getting at is um by undergoing this are we inadvertently and if we fail for whatever reason are we inadvertently adding additional costs to go through this process and also add additional cost by kicking the can down the road another 6 months two years Oh you mean additional costs other than doing the project outside of msba if if we if we're forced to go revert back to that I'm trying to get a sense of what happens if we fail kids suffer I mean that's even more I understand you're talking Financial but I just want to bring it like the whole point of this is to help kids and so like that really is that is I think where our site is is like the impact that that's going to have on the students so we can't I don't question that at all I understand it's really a question of it's really a matter of time right Peter and his team are going to spend a lot of time on this Tom McCarthy at Consolidated facility is going to spend a lot of time Nick and Amy at the Town they're going to spend a lot of time on all this work kind of leading up to feasibility and schematic design in module one a lot of time in module two all those staff members that we are adding to this committee right they already have full-time jobs we're now asking them to be a part of this Committee in the afternoon so we don't take that lightly that's it's going to be a lot of I think that is that is the cost is we are going to be kind of asking more of the people who are already doing a whole lot in a town that is already strapped for resources and they're already probably doing like two or three jobs I'm not questioning any of that and really what I'm trying to understand are what are the risk factors around the around how do we manage that just it's worth um mentioning that you know as a district in the program we um we do have the opportunity we have one uh staff person at msba who's assigned to work with Milton um and that is our Point person um so that is built into the program participating in the program is to have her Consulting you know as we go through um so that's that is at no cost you know to us that's just sort of a benefit of being in the program is having her support too thank you ran getting back to my previous question uh you said there's other metrics besides classrooms right can we get a breakdown of how you figure out the overcrowding situation like whether it be by classrooms for high school you know Middle School um size of the school whatever it is you said there's other metrics so can we get that yeah again I think Sean's got a ton ton of stuff on it I can share enrollments stuff again that has both Sean's got space constraints and the space studies that they've done and again the enrollment numbers as I shared previously and the metrics on increase special education costs versus um or education students in proportion Now versus you know 15 years ago at this point um so yeah we have we can share some of those metrics Julia yeah just um you know there's a large um body of documents from the school building committee online that you reference that have all of those I mean there's a great graph um about the where um the capacity of the schools was built for and how long ago we exceeded that from in K through five and that was 2009 that we started to exceed that so all all of this information exists um and I would definitely recommend that you check out the school building committee um page on the town website cuz you can see a lot of the resources there okay thanks okay does anybody uh here on the committee and on Zoom have any further questions regarding the amendment to article 6 to the 2019 special town meeting change the school building committee to amend it to allow the new members are there any questions as to this article okay I don't see any hands raised superintendent Dr Carol thank you you very much just appreciate your time and I'll I'll stay in case other questions come up you're more than welcome in your next piece of the discussion um but thank you for all your time and thoughtfulness around this thank you question we're excited it's going to be busy few years thank you and uh member lauring if if you want to stay at the table you may or you can step back uh thank you both um I see our our second uh presenter Mr Sha oor of the school building committee is here um Mr aor thank you so much for being with the warrant committee again your second committee meeting tonight yeah um just just screw my lap oh absolutely absolutely um Mr Ro was at a another meeting this evening the school building committee um but was uh gracious to to double dip tonight and join us so um just as uh Mr Rook is just getting uh set up I'd like to um this would be essentially the next article on our draft warrant and uh uh Mr Rook is going to talk to about about appro um it's a request for appropriation to borrow transfer from available funds um to be expended under the school building committee for a feasibility study um of an elementary and middle school project for the Cunningham school at 44 EDG Hill Road in Milton um this obviously Blends into what we were just talking about with the msba um so the the draft language uh essentially is complete unless I'm told otherwise on our draft warrants and Mr oror the floor is yours uh so please all right thank you Mr chair um just for the record Shan aor 27 Cory Lane uh town meeting member Precinct date chair of the school building committee uh with me tonight also is uh Sean Burke from PMA Consultants is it okay if he sits up Mr Burke please I'm I'm sorry please step forward and grab a check and thank you also uh for being here uh with Mr rooy and Mr Lauren I'll let him introduce himself too Sean Burke 100 r Road Tommy precin n thank you right um I apologize some of the stuff I might present might be repetitive because I wasn't open to the previous conversation so that's fine I I I had H I was a little nervous that these were going to kind of blend together that's fine so please uh could you just make me a presenter I'll do a short presentation and you accept the panelist invitation yeah I apologize you sent that and I didn't have my laptop open last time no no audio no perfect screen share and just check all right so for msba uh essentially you know is since the last demos here we're invited into feasibility study which is basically was a big uh threshold to cross for this project to get accepted to that so basically what it does is it brings us into a number of what they call modules so if you go to msp's website uh there's a number of modules the first one that I want to talk about is the eligibility period which is basically what the two articles we're talking about tonight so when you click on the eligibility period it brings you into essentially subm modules that are part of module one so the first part is you know accepting the invitation to the eligibility period which we've done um so then as you walk through there's a number of steps that happen the entire module one has to be completed in 270 days that's the maximum we're not trying to hit the maximum we're trying to hit the minimum so the first step on it is what they call their ICC initial compliance certification basally just acknowledgement to the program uh it's signed by the town Executives most likely a chair of the select board uh Town admin uh the superintendent of the schools and the uh chair of the school committee so they give you 30 days for that one that one should be very quick yes did we do it not yet not yet isn't it like due well the eligibility period starts May 1st yeah so so yeah yeah no thank you yeah yeah no no I mean everything we're so pull it back to a different framework so every this this 270-day clock starts May 1st and what we're trying to do is not just sit around wait till May 1st get everything for the May meeting we want to we want to get ahead of everything as best we can essentially be proactive rather than reactive is there an April 1 deadline because I have that no wasn't April mention yeah so the the the second component on there which I give you 60 days was the previous article that you just talked about formation of the school building committee as everyone's aware the town already has a school building committee so we're just augmenting it to align the roster with msba that they have the next portion of this which I heard some commentary on on the previous article is you know educational profile online enrollment projections up to 90 days so that's where we work with msba we develop what are options that we're looking at and they'll come up with a recommendation for enrollments for that that enrollment then plays into what you're building or how big it is next as you go through is maintenance documentation so what they want to see throughout this process is their investment when they they give you money to build a school that you actually have a maintenance program to take those assets and maintain them over time and just not let them Decay so that's another one that takes a decent amount of time it's going to be a lot of work with the uh consolidated facilities director Tom McCarthy so we've got the documentation on it and that's one we're going to start on and then the one that we're here to talk about tonight is the authorization for the study for feasibility funding so if you go on to mba's website I have the link at the bottom of this but if you just go to their website there they give uh a large spreadsheet that basically breaks down all of the costs of everything there including the soft costs which we're talking about tonight when you look at it and it'll see if I can yeah use my mouse under designer basic Services feasibility study for the designer which is the architect the engineer they look at that and essentially you can't look at the numbers that are here CU these are 2019 2021 obviously things are more expensive today but percentage wise of the overall construction project it R ranges about 1% or a little bit below for the OPM very similar it's about half a percent if you look across what's there so rough numbers when we were looking at this we were thinking 1% for the architect half a percent for the uh OPM so as everyone's aware last time I was here I presented our uh feasibility study that we did with Aros Street engineering Arrow Street architecture at the time the total construction cost construction cost was 133 million which led to a project cost of 173 million which I think everyone's familiar with the thing that a lot of people we we weren't able to present was we had updated that feasibility design to a schematic design by refining it we were able to reduce the total construction cost down to 128 million project cost came down to about 167 million so when we when we made the um education you know the the the uh ask for this feasibility study we based it on the smaller number that was there so if you take that 128 million rough construction costs that we that we formulated in November and you take 1% and half a percent for Architects and half percent for the owner's project manager it basically yields a budget of 1.9 million for feasibility study based on those percentages right for us what we're looking at is essentially a million dollars to architect engineer and 500,000 to the OPM essentially those those percentages are actually smaller than what the msba has on there for like uh their average numbers that were there so I wanted to give that just for context for people to kind of understand where the request came from and essentially with that I'll open it up because I'm sure there's a lot of questions can you go back to SL do you mind if I ask a question yeah go for it what does it mean schematic design estimate how did that yeah so last time I was in front of you guys we had a feasibility feasibil feasibility design which was very high level high level floor plans and stuff like that what we did is we took that design and further refined it put you know sharpened our pencils if you want want to call it that for the design one of the things we looked at that was a big reduction is the initial feasibility design had a very big retaining wall on there we work with the civil engineers came up with alternative grading to reduce that retainage wall and then by doing so we reduce cost okay are you still going planning you still thinking of two buildings or you to everything is off the table Yeah so we've hit a hard reset button with this so even the teams yeah even the teams even the teams that we have right now our our OPM may not be our OPM going forward sorry it's reality M must be makes you re they're going to make you start over yeah so so we have to after we get through this feasibility study I'll let me go back to the very first slide we get through the eligibility period we secure funding for a feasibility study we do exactly what school building committee did two years ago we start interviewing and making a forming a project team so that's going to consists of onboarding new OPM and then going through mba's designer selection panel for an architect in which case we have three seats at the table out of a total of 15 is this the result of the mspa is this the all these changes okay well yeah it's not really changes it's it's more of um it's a change for the town because we were going on a certain path of doing it on our own right now we're just getting into a program so it's basically giving uh essentially call a framework a structure that we need to follow to basically align to their what they're asking us to do so sorry I have like three unrelated questions um we are assigned an OPM we are not sorry um what happens is we'll put in advertisement up like we did before opms will respond to it the town will interview them and select their OPM the town being whom uh School building committee whatever Representatives do that okay um can you go to that second to last slide that you were showing um yes so why the reduction from the budget based on the msba data so what we feel is we've done some homework already with a lot of the work we've already done that we can feed into this to kind of save some money so you know for us we're pretty confident that end of the 1.5 million is more than enough money to to do what we need to do and then what are the outcomes or and or products of a feasibility study like what do we have at the end of that turn it over to my expert here uh at the end of your feasibility study all another schematic design pretty far detailed you'll have a full project budget and at that point the MSP will ask you to vote on a project budget and lock in and they will guarantee you your reimbursement rate and um the maximum amount of money they'll give you and when you say they'll ask you to vote on it you mean the town the town yes the town has to at that point have has to vote on a budget for the project and then if if once you vote on the uh the budget you'll move into uh detail design and construction documents but I assume both but maybe not both the town and town meeting would need to vote to approve that I believe that is the process correct and it doesn't matter in which order that happens or yeah so so to to go into that that's where we were in the fall so we had a feasibility you know not talking msba but just process we had a feasibility study sorry trying to hit mute sorry yeah it was just waiting sorry yes I'm sorry all right there we go sorry about that I was trying to see your screen sorry record so yeah sorry about that so going back in time in the fall when we were here we we did we for us we followed what mba's process was on our own for for the town we presented a feasibility study we we presented a cost estimate and basically said to the town we we need to fund this the it will be essentially the same process and we'll approach the town the difference is at this point we'll be getting money back as part of that overall ask and I've been wondering I'm sure others have too what are considered eligible costs and what are not for that 45% uh for the feasibility study most of it will be eligible if not all of it um it's when you get into um later on into your construction there's a lot of exclusions there's a list of 26 exclusions under the CMR process uh they don't if there's ineligible square footage space they won't participate in the construction of that they won't participate in design of ineligible spaces um if there's areas if you want to build a bigger gym then they allow they won't pay for that if you want to put an auditorium in an elementary or middle school they typically won't pay for that um so there are a lot of nuances and it's a it's a you know it's a it's a interesting process C to get to your 3011 and get the MSP to approve it but at the time that you finished an STD you're going to know what is going to be eligible and what isn't going to be eligible so that and this will be my last question I promise so um so that was so the msba will say this is what we will fund and here's how much you'll get the town could elect to do more we just will would do that knowing that it's not eligible for the 45% to a point yes they they won't they won't let you go way overboard typically they won't support a project where if you want to put a 30 ,000 ft gy in they'll probably say no but they will let you go over their guidelines as long as you understand that it's not coming out of um you're not going to be receiving any uh grant money for that yes so just one other clarifying point so when we talk about the 45% reimbursement that's on eligible costs and as you're alluding to that that eligible cost get or that percentage gets diluted down to an effective rate so it will be below 41 45% of the overall project when we look at it can I just Jack there there's a few people who have questions but so as to that 45% number that's a hard number right there's no flexibility on the state saying we'll give you more or or maybe can the state say we're going to give you less forget about eligible cost non-eligible costs like just could they ever look at the plan and say 35% just cuz I mean like it's I saying it's an arbitrary thing you know what I mean like can they make any decisions either way it's a three Factor uh calculation where they uh they use different socio economic factors in the town of how much they're going to give you sometimes there's special dis dispensation around Co they gave additional money uh for projects that were feeling that you things were getting more expensive because of a supply chain issues so yes uh they they can but typically once you lock in after your feasibility study that's the rate that you're going to get for the project it's it's very untypical that it we change after that point okay pour down one one other one too is there's additional points so you can earn for for yes for yeah uh there there are additional points for um used to be for CMR I don't think that's available anymore for building management if you uh put together a management plan you can get some additional bonus points for that but that all is done with your architect and your OPM team as part of the planning and up until the point that you get to your uh you lock in that rate and at the time after feasibility study when you submit your preferred schematic you say this is what this is the project we want to do do that's when they're going to lock you in and that it'll be it at that point so if you're going to make a make a push to to get more funding and you want to provide reasons that's the time to do is prior to that okay do you know that CMR I don't 46 maybe I can I can I can look it up I'll find it that's a tough one the RS yeah yeah I just want to just so I don't have to do it okay I'll look up okay somewhere thank you we have uh Judy and then Ron Judy thank you um so my question is I don't know this um we've already spent money on a feasibility study and you came up with some architect um plans and um other things so are we going to be able to use any uh what we found out with that money in this new visibility in other words can we carry it over we paid for an architect um does that it is any of that um progress you made um moving forth with say the architect are we able to move that into this or is that just loss of money no so so to the point earlier of the the lower number that were're carrying you know the the 1.5 million as opposed to 1.9 million um you know our intent is to leverage any of the existing stuff that we have for example we we did borings along g Road that most likely can be reused cuz you know why we take a boring in the same spot to find the same soil conditions um the architect the Civil design of realigning the road which is something we need to do anyways is probably something that could be salvaged uh but the overall program and design of the buildings probably not um there's some survey work that was done for topographical studies um and again I'm just running through a list in my head of you know addition things that are there that we can probably use so to you know to answer your question you know shortly is you know there are some things that we can use but the majority of it probably not okay um uh so we could probably take into Factor we're getting more money than the money we lost so you know sometimes that happens mhm but you're going to try and use as much as you can to um make good good use of that oh yeah 100 100% any anything that we can yeah any anything we can leverage that we've already done I don't want to pay to you know redo it and get the same result okay thank you Sean no problem okay Ron then Julia then Liz yeah I was wondering do we know what the msba would prioritize that we haven't prioritized like so I think maybe it's theoretically possible that design comes back very similar possibly right unlikely but I wonder are they going to ask for us to do specific things like lead certification or the building has to be white they tell you what what those guidelines are they do have guidelines for uh they have what's called a space summary document so when you figure out what your Ro's going to be they make you build a building that supports that space summary and that is the template that has been used for the original study so all that information can be turned over to whatever the design firm is um and if you can if you do choose the same architect they'll have it all if not you can certainly leverage that information and provide it to them as they put together their they're planning their program yeah to touch on your your question about like will they require you to do a lead program what they do is as I was talking about the points or the reimbursement they'll offer an additional percentage point or something like that if you do a lead so it's it's almost like they dangle in front of you to do it for an additional reimbursement that's there they require um chips for schools certification which is basically lead silver anyway in order to get into the program so um most of the buildings that are being designed as schools are are our lead minimum silver and I would hope most of the requirements would be things that we're probably okay with right it wouldn't be foreign that they're going to want schools that are just not standard I assume it's pretty modern requirements so okay thanks Julia um if town meeting votes no on this is the whole is this whole thing dead in the water the feasibility this article yeah um no so essentially we got a 270-day window so the good thing of presenting this early at February town meeting is that we could revise and come back in May and then even potentially come back if there's a fall town meeting so the whole intent is again be proactive get ahead of this as quickly as we can in the hopes that it gets approved early but what if in all three town meetings it gets voted down by town meeting no we would not progress and the whole VA thing is off yeah if you failed to procure funding for feasibility can't continue with the program because you don't meet module one yeah within the 270 days okay thank you thank you J please um you might have already said and I might have missed it Sean but this 1.5 million so I went online like you said msba website and I looked at they have information for schools that were built middle school high school elementary school just high school and I looked at the feasibility study costs for designer and then owner's project manager and kind of added them in my head some of them are 1.5 million some of them are way less some of them are more so seems like a very broad range so how did we come up with the 1.5 for our feasibility setting for our town maybe you already said I don't know yeah so so I wouldn't yep so I wouldn't look at Dollar numbers because they're historical numbers all the way back to like 2015 so as you're looking at Dollar numbers you have to escalate them right to today's dollars that's why I was saying look at the percentages that are there if you look at the percentages you'll notice it's roughly 1% for Architects and about half a percent for the OPM can you go back to that slide with the sure um comparable and it's 1% based off of what total amount got is for one the construction cost so that's that's why so when you look at this if I put the spreadsheet up there we' never see it because it would make the print that small but essentially what it is is when you go on there the percentages that they give here where it says right here percent of total construction that's based on the total construction cost so that's why I apologize um I presented this slide to tell everybody this was the construction cost that was here and then from that construction cost that's how we derive the percentage of the sport no I'm with you on that but how did did you decide what our total construction cost for our project would be yeah so what we're doing is leveraging what the project was before so you're using the previous number then multiplying it so if it were that the msba you know ultimately it was less theoretically the feasibility study could cost us less than even what the town voted to approve yeah so the the key thing the outer range the one point yep the key thing to keep in mind with this appropriation it it's it's an authorization to to spend money right it's not like it's a lump sum that we just dump out there and do so it's it's basically a budgetary number that we're carrying the outer range okay the one other thing I would I I would ask everybody to keep in mind is you know as we progressed our design previously there was a number of every time we thought we got to a point that we answered all the questions more questions would come up so having you know budget to kind of address those concerns going forward is something that you know our committee is concerned about Judy Judy okay um Sean I I'm going to practice this question by it's something I heard through the great one and we all know it was a great song in the day but it's not a reliable source of information um a lot of times so the Great Vine is saying saying that the um state will not pay for the pre portion can you speak to that sure um so I'll let Sean Talk About Preschool preschool reimbursements so yeah past project with they Miss B we they have supported uh typically the prek classroom uh costs but if there's additional room like if you have admin Suites that are specific to prek they usually exclude those those types of costs so if you had a separate prek gym on top of your gym they probably wouldn't pay for that if you had a separate prek principle they would likely um exclude that space but uh in most of our projects recently they have paid for prek classroom specific space and and any special ed space associated with prek they pay for as well so and that plays into the percentage re the delution of that 45% reimbursement that's there too so that's just another highlight for for an example of that so um just looking at was what you thought pretty pretty sure what you were going to do with the two buildings one being for the prek one being for the Middle School um most likely the classroom space for PRK will fall okay in this 45% is that how I'm understanding what you just said yes so so the classroom space the special ed space uh would would all be accommodated and I'm going off memory of the previous design I think we had a playroom or like a small gy it wasn't even a gymnasium it was just a large empty room with pads on it uh and then the administrative space and the nurse nursing space as part of that would not be included so that's essentially as we talked about the 45% overall cost for that building we would get diluted down with those non- reimbursables okay thank you uh Julia then we're on do you have um an average uh what the average reimbursement is as a percentage of the total yep construction cost yes so leading up to the kind of decision that was coming from msba one of the things we talked about as a committee was if we get accepted to msba do we really want to hit reset and take a longer timeline or do we want to just kind of go it on our own um so we asked PMA to look at that and understand essentially what that diluted cost would be from 45% roughly and correct me if I go rung uh it it diluted it down to roughly a 28% reimbursement that we saw on there uh and that was based on the the project that we were doing before so they went through the floor plans the schematic design We have basically acting as msba would when we get to a certain point and filtering that down and I think from that 173 million or 167 million revised number um we saw we saw essentially an effective reimbursement of 28% the reason it's that large is uh Mo most of it is the building square foot cost they cap what they pay for construction cost and buildings cost more than they pay for and they know that it's not it's they're trying to spread money around as a grant program so they are limiting how much they're going to reimburse any building and if whatever your cost is above that it's that is on you I had a question how does the design do so when the designer taking it into account the reimbursement rate I assume right they're going to know what's paid for and what's not who's going to make the call and do we want to spend money for something that's not going to be reimbursed is that the school billing committee that would that would be my my anticipation yes the eight Lane swimming pool really it don't pay for swimming pool well you want for just just to be clear we don't have room on the site for an swimming pool okay so so committee will still make the call the designer can propose designs and try to save money and yeah so so very similar so when the when the school building committee was looking at this previous design from the architect that we had there were multiple options that were presented along the way one being do want a single building with both programs and there are two split buildings and it basically fell to the committee under our charge to basically make that decision um I have a couple qu couple questions um separate building the states not pay wouldn't pay for separate pieces because it would cost more it's also going to cost the town's public more too because they have to have maintenance on both buildings um um would you rethink that is it reasonable to think that maybe you'd rethink that and make it one building yeah so so essentially What's happen so right now the whole program that you saw before the two buildings is gone we we're starting from scratch so the state you you would I mean but in your head you wouldn't be pushing two buildings well the two buildings so it's a playback on the reasoning behind the two buildings so the the two buildings were there and it alluded to a point that came up Ear on the previous discussion about expansion of the preschool is that in the future if we needed to expand preschool the opportunity if we had two separate buildings allowed that right um the cost by which we had two separate buildings was actually uh equal from what from our analysis I talked about that last time with you at at our previous meeting that the construction of the main school is going to be seel Framing and CMU where there's going to be like Timber type construction there the HVAC system was actually d from the larger building so when we looked at the overall cost and looked at square footage cost of the big building as a p as one big building as opposed to a big building with a small building different construction it was equal um so so for our our mind when we made that decision to go to two buildings we didn't see it as additional cost we started as a cost a cost equal but going forward now under msba again we're starting essentially from scratch it's a blank slate that we're doing um we're looking at we have to look at number number of different options all the way through and then basically fine-tune those options to what we want them to really uh hire The Architects to study we don't want to do too many options because it will the overall design so we really want to focus in on what are those options we want to look at um I believe that at the class but the additional class are that of like maintenance and dealing with it and having somebody go in there and add anything else um this State just getting back to um how does the state determine the cost of the building because they have to accept the quotes like do they have a cost per square foot that they do or they have a cost per square foot that they reimburse on but it's the uh the project team's responsibility to use estimators to tell them when you're going into that project and ask them for approval what their your estimated construction cost is going to be and then it's your responsibility to get the town to support that uh construction cost and then when the bids come in um if they if they're not on budget you either have to Value manage out something or you need to go back to the town and ask for more money and the MSP will not support the additional funds so they but they do they have a standard that they use do you know or do they just they just look at your bids they don't go out and look at like what's out in the market for square foot to build a building they set their rates based on available funds I believe so it does they do vote every sometimes it's every year sometimes it's every a few years to increase how much they reimburse on a given building but as far as your building costs they don't have a uh a set cost for how much your building can cost per square foot but they have a set cost of how much they're going to reimburse you for that building can I keep asking this quick sure who determines so we go out to bid the town goes up to bid who determines who we bid with who who determines the who do you how do you know who to bid what construction it's a public process public process yeah you have to do sealed bids you put it out Central register other other things so there's two delivery methods of ask 149 and 149a so 149 is general contractor you send out um you advertise a bid package to General Contractors and subcontractors you get uh a collection of subcontractors in you publish those and then General Contractors bid on that uh construction maner at risk you hire a construction manager earlier on and with them you send out bids for uh filed sub bids and then they make up the the difference who's for the people who aren't filed for the work that is not classified under filed of it and it's a it's a process but it's yeah mgl chapter 149 spells it all out all right thank you Jay uh thank you I'd like to go back to something that Miss Carol said in the earlier session which is I guess my broad question is what criteria did msba use in accepting us into this part of the program and to get you know not to beat around the bush but to what extent should we view our acceptance into this program as the state saying yes Milton you're overcrowded you need another school and if so what did they use to determine that so the I apologize some of this may be repetitive you know I mean because I wasn't privy to the previous conversation but obviously the statement of interest is is their starting point for what they do so if you if you recall we submit that in the spring and as they determine that they kind of narrow it down a little bit and then go into site visits uh this year was the first time msba actually visited us in person um you know as I mentioned to this committee before if you don't believe the there's overcrowding go to the schools talk to the principles um they they're living it day in day out I mean if you watch school committee meeting just from last week and listen to principal K can and talk about kindergartens there's no more space they're at their maximum capacity for for everywhere and that's just going to propagate through as it's going um so you know the state won't directly say Jay um um what was the key thing that made them decide to accept us but you know my my take on it is you know witnessing the overcrowding uh principal Ken and principal Ren on their tour here gave a very detailed cour uh tour the kic hunningham of all the spaces that have been converted um locations you know what we've been doing for temporary solutions you know just looking at the library and how much it's been cannibalized um was part of it um the one other part for at least for my take of it is having identified land as part of this is another thing that's different this year than it's been in previous years um the one thing with msba is they want projects ready to go so I think by us doing all the work that we've done so far up to this point was you know part of what got us over the hump and you know I appreciate all the the help uh from you know a newly represent new Representatives you know at the state level that also you know helped as best they can um you know this is this is a major win for the town so I think a lot of us are pretty excited about it anybody have any other questions just regarding the the funds to continue on the project feasibility can I ask you a question sure just um it just goes to um and this is I mean I I understand but so for a special ed there's a buildout Beyond a classroom space they don't cover that special ed they uh they work with desie for a special education plan and they uh they typically do support whatever the special needs uh special needs of a town are I can't say absolutely they're going to pay for everything but generally speaking uh special ed programs are thought by the MSP as necessary and if Desi approves them then they typically support them okay okay because I thought that I I thought that may be the case yes that is typically the case okay it's a 963 CMR 2.0 963 CMR uh 2.0 2.0 thank you very much uh are there any other questions now for um the panel stands up J I'd like to follow up on what you just said sure okay yeah I'd like to follow up on what the chair just asked because I've been hoping for a long time that this new school will have space so that I mean we send a lot of kids out of district for their specialed needs that not only is a huge financial burden to the town as everyone in this room knows it's it's a burden to the kids who have to get on a get on a bus and ride for an hour each way the parents have to send them there instead of sending them to a school of my to away so I've been hoping for a long time that there'd be extra space in this school to keep kids that we're sending out of District now in District now the words extra space in the school create Horror in people's mind and I understand why we want to be on budget do I interpret what I just heard to mean possibility or the likelihood that if we build extra space to provide special education needs for kids who live in this town so they won't have to be sent out of District that we'd be getting 45% of that um did I hear that or something approaching that so yeah I'll I'll do my best to answer that jant Mark feel free to chime in if I go off base but you know so so essentially you know part part of this and it's to uh uh Ron's Point earlier is the is going to be options that are going to be presented to the school building committee that they have to weigh in on for example if we needed to do extra space to house uh additional special ed that's something you know School building committee will be working with the school committee similar to what we did under the feasibility study previously we did a whole visioning series all last spring and summer with the district so that incorporated uh all aspects of of the districts you know from teachers to principes down to the IT person maybe even the janitor was there too but special ed as a component of that has a a say as part of that visioning sessions and that's part of this feasibility study that we're going to be doing um the reality is you know can we build all the space to bring all the kids from out of District in most likely not um but to build additional space to bring certain kids back in that we could uh again I think that's going to get to the discussion with school building committee with school committee you know us as a town to kind of look at and you know Mark you can fill in any voids I may miss no I think well said um I mean I think the goal is to bring as many students into the town for all the reasons you said Jay both financially and uh academically for the benefit of the kids uh not every program just can be just because there's some very unique um programs but um yeah but I I think I can speak for for Peter and and the other staff where that that has always been their goal and and a desire of theirs and just not something right now they can look at because of the the limitations of space so this certainly provides that that opportunity just point about the space exis Dr car s just only add to that that it's uh it's what we can be building within the new school but then it's also the programs that we are able to then support with the space that's freed up in our existing for elementary schools that's another element to it so those would be the you know probably at the elementary level that's where we would be able to service additional special education students would be in the space that's freed up by moving the um students out but again you know with msba we'll go back through start from the beginning to make sure that the program of the building is um you know it may change it may not be the prek with the um with the Middle School it will get vetted and sort of redetermined but yeah that's an important element is what the space the new space within our existing buildings too sorry thank you very much thank you on zo anyone a last call can't drag Mr roor back here again happy to come back anytime oh I know that I know that I I am embarrassed asking you to um thank you okay well thank you very much I really appreciate the information the time running across town Sean as always and thank you sir so just a note we were in the old fire station headquarters new conference room I highly recommend you guys start reserving that it's a very nice space so it was it was a very short walk from okay I was trying to I like the BL try try it it's I'm afraid to I'm afraid to but I again I I really do appreciate you making this happen for us tonight and just work with our schedule Mark good to see you again have good very much thank you thank you Dr Carol okay um okay we're approaching the 9:00 hour um I have provided um from for some more committee discussion if the the committee would so choose um I'm going to add and just say that um you know we're kind of coming up against the deadline for our drafting um and I expect a a busy next couple of weeks and usually there's kind of a break in between going to print the warrant going to print in town meeting that we can all enjoy that probably will not be happening this time around um and I I know I I asked about the discussion but I I this is my discussion to you because I I want to get this out of the way um you know there's a planning board article about our Adu requirement that we have to look at there's also a lighting bylaw potentially most likely um those are going to take a lot of work because they're pretty big um I don't trust that they're going to be ready by the time the warrant goes to print so that's what we're going to be working on between the end of the month and Town Meeting those will be green cheet comments I trust um unless something happens um so I'd really like to focus on what we have in front of us um I know that you know there's there's a couple of money items um I've posted for Wednesday I'm really hoping that our town engineer can make it here I've spoke to the Town Administrator about having to come here to speak to some of the concerns about the lead the lead pipe project um in addition to that I'm also seeking Town Council to come in and just speak about the liquor license liability um for some of those of you who are new um at times we we discuss an article and we vote uh there have been times where we have a speaker we discuss and we vote um I trust that if we can get the two speakers in here for Wednesday I will amend um the meeting notice to include Town Council if necessary but um um I will uh do that um but um I would see the following week us voting on articles um and I you know we're going to discuss more about comments and how the comment process and who will be writing the comments and how that'll work but um I want to I want to get us to a point as a committee where everyone's feeling comfortable to vote um there are some heavy lifters you know the the lead pipe you know they at there a couple of Articles asking for money um I assume those are going to get a little bit of discussion here at this table but I think some of the others are relatively easier and that we could probably take care of in quicker fashion um are we feeling that way as a as a committee I know maybe some of the new members you may L I know that at least this um first morning article that we discussed today there was a minor recommended change that it include all the current members of the school building committee and anyway they're going to change the language so by then do you think we will have like the final version of all of those warrant articles that we've already been provided voting on the appropriate one of course yeah and that that's my job as the chair and I'm going to be working with Mr Milano moving forward on that I mean as you all know we can recommend anything we so you know we choose if we think the language needs to be chosen but we will be provided with language on each article as voted on by the select board and as approved by them they approve we review and then we present to town meeting so so as long as that's all yeah then I'm fine with going ahead next week and just so you know and I know some who are town meeting members sometimes that changes between our vote and when it goes to the floor and those are usually addressed through us through the Town Administrator and then of course at town meeting through a green sheet so there can be changes usually those are typos or uh otherwise they usually true substantive changes but that can also happen so I just wanted to kind of get a feeling from everyone on the committee uh I guess are we comfortable we'll we'll hear from Town Council we'll hear from our town engineer and then move forward to voting yes is there any again you is there anyone else that this board would like to hear from or this committee would like to hear from prior to commencing votes on any of these your plan is to start voting next week probably may see uh Jay um I guess I've got two things one to to directly answer the question you just asked I think we would benefit from hearing from Miss Hall again with once the once their proposals are a little bit more solid but that's not why I raiseed my hand can I yeah let me answer that Jay we will have the planning board in um when they when that when that draft language is is like put to paper and they're looking to get approval from the select point so the warrant will be opened back up we'll we'll have a time to really vet that but it's not going to be in the regular course because it's going to go to prints so we're going to be doing that kind of okay and what else did you want talk about oh the other thing is so I heard Mr oror say if anyone needs to be educated about the overcrowding situation at the schools come visit and I take him literally I don't I don't take that as a figure of speech I take that as an actual offer and so figuratively looking around this table I know there are a bunch of people with different levels of exposure to the overcrowding issue of the schools um some questions came up tonight so Mr chair would it be appropriate for us to have maybe a warrant committee optional tour of one of the elementary schools during a school day uh just speaking for myself if it's just me I don't think I'm pretty convinced in the overcrowding so I don't think I need it but if there are people around this table who want to learn more about the overcrowding I'd like to take Mr oror up on his offer and do we think do we as a committee think it would benefit for some or a lot of the members to do such a tour in in the near future okay I'm just gonna I'm just going to throw that out there is that would anybody be interested I know that something I would be sure okay I know I was going to say before you answered that we've we've had these meetings we've had s sidewalks before as a committee um and that's usually done through the presenters so Jay I Macy are the S sidewalks necessary should we not expect the people here to present that their testimony if you can call it that even though they're not under oath be credible and they take it yeah I'm just saying no I mean I mean because I mean I mean then then so my question is that are we then going out and doing our own research and investigation before we vote I mean I'm just saying I don't I mean I'm just putting that out there yeah we can certain we can certainly do that as warrant members and um I mean I frequently you know credit what is being presented as um but then again it's trust but verify and and if there are individuals and I'm not going to call on the committee as a whole but there are if there are individuals who are truly interested in this and would really like to go to school and can make time from their personal lives and work day to go during the day I'm sure it would be feasible there's a couple of phone calls and we could make it happen so you know Jay I appreciate you making that recommendation and I as the chair could work with any member or members who would like to maybe get in the school I'm sure Dr Burrows uh Dr Carol would be more than happy to have a member of the warrant committee or several members go through so Liz yes so I was going to say sort of to your point Macy I think there's something about going and then talking to the principal or whatever because when I know when I've actually seen the schools it just gives you a little bit of color to kind of what they're saying so to actually see the wall in the library versus just hearing about it or seeing a picture of it so I myself even I mean I've been to some of the schools but not all of them I would be interested in seeing sort of firsthand what we're talking about um and I think that you know to your point yes credit them but I also think there's a sort of go off on a legal topic I think there's a reason why sometimes they bring the jury to like the site you know if you will here it it might make sense to kind of have a visual to understand what does a wall in a library look like what does that space look like for the children um I would really value that opportunity sure yeah I would never dissuade any member of the committee from any type of due diligence that they want to do and share their experiences with the committee and really with the public I mean that's really what we're doing here um so Jay I'm gonna I'm gonna talk to you more maybe tomorrow or at some point when we can speak but I can I will send uh Dr Carol an email I will float this to her um I don't I don't see an issue um I will float this to her and see what the response is and if I something we can put together I'll I'll put that together um would it be open meeting like the public would be invited it would be like we I I that's talk no one talks well I mean you really can't conc like so if you're going to site visits right it becomes a public issue separately so so for example I mean if you want to I'm going to take the fire department for an example um are we going to go follow them while they're fighting fires I think that's a safety issue right and it's the same with police are we going to go and do a ride along and watch them execute s ones and rest it's a public safety issue so it's the say I mean is and when we do go do those set visits it becomes a public right for could you just have three three person teams go visit them like we have subcommittees is the same thing I mean that's not an open violation I mean we would but I I really appreciate you know's Point um you know and that's something I'd probably have to figure out the Town Administrator but I would worry if we had eight groups of us that's going to take up it's very disruptive I mean have adults walking through the school I mean so let's ask let's ask the originator of this idea Jay now he has homework Jay can you can you give offer any commentary on how to reconcile open meeting disruption to the school day if there are less than eight of us it's not an open meeting exactly and because there's not a quorum and as I think Steve just suggested if there are more than eight of us split us send a two we're not we're not meaning you're not going to all go to the same school space it out yeah so I I like this idea let me uh let me just make some let me do some Outreach and maybe I'll have an answer for everyone on Wednesday if not it'll be via email I I I do think it's a good idea because I I'm I'm very curious about the metrics they're using um the metric we've always heard was overcrowding the classrooms and he he punted on that metric he called on I wrote it down so I'd like to see it okay personally okay trust or verify yeah I can yeah can I'm sorry jay please go ahead I was just going to respond to Steve yeah I didn't want to interrupt when our guests were here but what I've heard over the past multiple years is that uh class size isn't the best gauge because class size is the number of students divided by the number of rooms and we've been taking an art room turning into classroom taking a music room turning into a classroom taking a library turning in classroom all that they've been bending over backwards so that the average class size doesn't get too big so that you don't have 35 first graders in one room but so the average class size has stayed pretty reasonable because they've leeched into all these other physical rooms um that that's what I'd always heard that's not what they said tonight and I you didn't want to chime in while our guests were here but that that's one reason why class size may not be the best judge for us can a clarification question on something yeah so they meant they talked about I think the msba rout that they can get reimbursed would be awesome I think it' be great so what I'm trying to understand is he he he talked about 45% then he mentioned um 28% which would infer there was a 177% sunk cost lost right so they researched this project with with Aeros Street HED an OPM that cost is non-recoverable now I'm trying to understand why 28 that's I'm trying to understand that are we excluded and the Caps the cost per square foot that that we're coming in at is 803 thank you msba is going to only pay 500 mhm okay that explains it thank you the space that they won't allow thank you because we have extra space so would pay to no not even just the extra space different things so they're only paying a certain square footage rate but then the extra space might be um what was the room the media room the meditation room so between the two two different factors are the exclusions yes and but he said 26 excl 27 I thought he said 26 exclusion 27 Oh every 27 exclusions I'm going to check it out plus the other factor is that we will not be reimbursed at the actual cost rate because of the Caps M so really the effective rate is even without the even if we had no exclusions the effective rate would be lower than 45% because they're not reimbursing 100% of what our actual costs are yeah and not all costs are eligible correct yeah so it yeah so even even if you we have no exclusions we everything we designed we still the effective rate of what we're reimbursed at is less than 100% of the 45% if that so they would still take a loan for for example 180 million for the school for example and get reimbursed on a percentage of that bit less the 27 exemptions right yeah about 28% he said would we actually take $1 million loan or the reimbursements I was going to ask that I'm thinking you well it's not guaranteed they're going to get the 45 or whatever percent that they've got to go through those Gates that's not guaranteed right there's I think I after what they what they said was after the feasibility study they would effectively set the reimbursement lock in the reimbursement rate at that point based on the Fe you build before you vote before you vote before you vot so you wouldn't be required to do anything anything before you knew how much money you were going to get back and he said that the majority of the cost of the feasibility study are reimbursable yeah even the previously some costs potentially so that was not a 45 just so everyone's clear it's not a 45% of these what they're asking for us now it's it's much greater than that so okay I just don't want to make that yeah juliia so um just back to the sort of scheduling issue so you're anticipating that um we will have heard from everyone we're hoping to hear from by uh Wednesday and then we're leaving Tuesday Wednesday Thursday for discussion and voting potentially yes potentially and then the war goes to print well then we have another whole week yeah look at my C right we have like another whole week so I mean I'm kind of when I say next week I'm I'm hoping we're going to get who we need to talk to um so I am kind of saying that you know if we can have a meeting on a Wednesday or Thursday and and vote on a few of these and a sign out and allow people to start working on comments or or whatever um it's just you know just so we can get ahead of it I I we need to get essentially what's before us in draft to print and then we can worry about we'll have we can have significant time to do Adu lighting like what whatever else we may the warrant may be opened up for so and when does the warrant go to print the end of the month end of the month I it went to on the 28th I thought someone said yeah the 28th or you said that 28th yeah that's four days so we don't have THS a week after next week we don't then you need everyone here to vote no we do not a quum we just have a quorum um and so the articles that we are not anticipating being ready to vote on before the warrant goes to print are adus lighting you said any are there others there was was it liquor license was it no we're we we're going to address that here I tell you was it the site plan site plan that's what it was yeah part of planning board so those they're meeting later this month M and I they're not finalized okay so three potential so there two definite three potential and that that from the time that these matters that we have in front of us go to print they we'll work on those yeah and that would be obviously that's going to be heavy planning board I I expect I expect we're going to want to probably speak to them at least a couple of times M um kind of the initial and then we consume it understand it then come back for a final round um so and then in terms of the lighting bylaw I I we saw one a couple of years ago uh it was very dense uh at that time I expect the building inspector maybe someone from the select board um or any maybe Consolidated anybody from any interested parties I think who would be either responsible for helping with enforcement or who's this article coming from I think the lighting itself is coming from the select board okay okay so it's not coming from a a committee or a department within the town I I think it's coming from the select board I don't know if the origins were a citizen but this has percolated for a couple of years now um so I I think we're going to be seeing it Liz my notes were that the war needs to go to print pretty much the week of January 28th is what Nick said so it might not be on the 28th just sometime during that week maybe we have a little wiggle room I'll talk to I'll talk to Our Town Administrator I wrote down what he um you know I trust that you know we're not we're not talking about it tonight but like you know the Adu bylaw it's probably going to be pretty long comment it's a lot of information there that people are going to have to read um I'm not speaking towards these I don't think they're aside from maybe some of the the money ones I don't think there's a lot of analysis so no meeting Thursday this week not this week right I I I wanted to have one um so this is the issue it it's just lining up speaker availability um I I I'm getting anxious at the time um I trust we're gonna have the town engine here here on Wednesday so we're gonna get some stuff done uh and it would be good to get the the lead the lead pipe stuff out of our way um if Town Council is not available we can have them in maybe on Tuesday so I'm kind of asking to the board here like and I know Ma you might not be physically here but like what do we so you're I'll try to call in sure I'll I'll be out of the country 12 hours ahead so I won't okay yeah yeah I don't I don't expect the midle um so what do how do we feel about a potential Thursday meeting if I have to pull a Thursday meeting to get Town Council th this week but then I have a i conflict but I can people okay with it yes I'm asking a lot warrant committee but not like this is the time that we're like it's like it's a crunch three nights in a row next week with a short week is a little brutal but um make it work yeah we need to okay I think like and I think this is for me I think by by after Wednesday I'm going to have a probably excellent idea or actually maybe hopefully I'm hoping by tomorrow afternoon I have an excellent idea on if we're even going to have a Thursday meeting and how next week will look you're talking about Thursday next week or Thursday Thursday this week this week if if I get a call this way I know this if if Tom Kel says hey I I can make it there on Thursday I'd rather have him and maybe do something shorter save our substantive discussion for next week with our votes um do that is everyone is that be good with that I have a conf I know Lor you have a conf yeah um if if the speakers can't physically come and they can come on Zoom too right so yeah it's just it it's just if they're available um and that's it okay cool does anybody have any any other like questions just in terms of procedure or anything else that you'd like me to hunt down or anyone else anything okay so we have a tentative meeting scheduled for Wednesday we're looking to hear from the town engineer just keep an eye on your email I may update that agenda with additions um but um other than that um I don't have anything more for the committee thank you thank you do I have a motion motion to motion to adjourn second second second Liz uh we are adjourned thank you everybody thank you thank you he he