##VIDEO ID:FUSCDFGHfxw## it in the summer we don't yeah okay well I'm going to call the meeting to order um this is the regular city um work session from Ana and it is January 22nd um and just real quick I'll do um introductions here I'm Lis and the mayor and we have council president um bodyy and by govern and Peter vicory is on his way he should be here shortly and then staff president is Gary Peters with Public Works superintendent and then um Ali paulos is our assistant administrator and we have Jasper kle City administrator Grim to name grim and govern grim and you know how I am with names um is our finance director David AEL is development director and then Joe Savvy savy Savvy is good enough Savvy okay is sitting in for Sarah Sala this evening he is our attorney and then Paul Falls is our community our publica chief of police and um and Aaron bulmer is also here tonight Public Safety is too long so you okay um with that we uh have a number of items on our agenda parks and Planning Commission interviews water treatment plan update sewer assessment um forgiveness requests and then the cand ordinance discussion so we're going to get started with our um interviews we have two lovely ladies with us here this evening that have applied and we're going to start with you um I believe Karissa you Karissa and you are Lindsay Lindsay you're Lindsay Jameson all right so we're gonna start with uh Marissa yeah if you just come forward and want to introduce yourself if there's anything else you would like to add um give us your back background that kind of thing all right soen um I'm new to Minista we just moved into the community in May of 2024 um by trade I'm a chief financial administrative officer it's a ea swing company um I've been in CFO roles for um about 10 years now and before that did variety of other uh County things my ownership at the company is for um RVP of it reports into me so technology um the Finance and Accounting team I have a legal team um which we Outsource um as well as risk management all coverage um and then I also had Human Resources reporting to me for four years so just kind of a jack of all trades from that perspective um my I also co-founded a nonprofit um 20 years ago which makes me feel dated um but it was a 501c3 uh called Vega U Productions was by Vega um I retired from that Bo about five years ago we hired an executive director um in St away but it was really a labor of love from a um so the the question in regards to government have not worked in government but worked with some mayor offices as far as home Minneapolis um related to her non so um many years ago and my interest um I put down Parks my interest um definitely love um parks in nature so it's uh a stress reliever and calling thing for me my husband he is a cyclist so he Trails um our family loves spending time outside and actually a draw to mina uh when we here we're surrounded by par CL um and you know looking at that as part of the draw it just kind of the heart you know of Minal to be more more grow I think that it's a passion that I have to continue to grow and develop that and the other side is far skill set though within um my areas of expertise uh definitely looking at Investments and things in long term so responsible for Returns on investments within um our company um on the executive team constantly uh problem solving day today um and and looking at where we want to go in the future and as an organization I think I bring those um and Pa it with a sincere um care and engagement in all right thank you um there really you answered pretty much all the questions um council do you have any additional questions usually say you know why why are you applying answer with that and also we ask you know I guess the only question I would have is um you apply for either I believe or both or whatever well for part um you know I would be open I know you have more need on the other side um we actually have more need in our Parks Commission we're already short one and we don't have any alternates so we're actually um in need on the par side so that would be great if you want to serve in that capacity um and I know in our planning we have um One open seat assuming we're going to reappoint Gan and then I know Lindsay has yep and we also have to whatever Che all thees and so it's really really great I mean you're new to the community our Parks Commission doesn't meet very often but yet we still value their input and in participation so um that that's a great asset to our questions I would say thank you for being so diligent application really wonderful to see someone TR and so thoroughly I hope you consider you know [Music] well thank you and then so what we'll do is um we this also have same opportunity and then we will be making we'll let you know before you leave and you don't have to stve for the regular meeting but um we will officially me the appointments that are regularly but you'll know before so and if you would like to stay you can but if you don't be with your family thank you very much soind you're next Jon and I to in um think it's April of 2020 so it was a tumultuous time we're running for election I remember the yard signs um it's really helpful moving to a place when there's signs around and see who your neighbors are you know get kind of excited because it's a smaller Community um I'm originally from Denver and I've traveled extensively um I've had the luxury of living overseas I lived in England for a while in a 17th Century Barn conversion um working on Military Base I um met my husband in Denver and we moved to California and um he commuted to sanan Francisco every day and so we had the kind of big city life and had kids and moved to the other side of the base we kind of experienced several different things and coming well at that time um he was given the opportunity to work remotely and so we're like let's go somewhere and so we you know looked everywhere I did all the research you could possibly do I read all of the all of the journals all of the real State websites I read all of the things that were open on all of the ballots and um we went to Amsterdam we tried that out we went off to Texas and what we ended up learning is that um Minnesota was amazing and my mom and my grandmother are both from here my great-grandmother immigrated from Norway to Western Minnesota and I had visited here many times and it's the only place that's ever really felt like home so I ped everyone up right before Co and we traveled across country and came and moved in and have been renovating our house I'm very familiar with so um and then at the same time I was working at a tech company working remotely and then I told my husband I just need to do something that's tactile web development it's great but I would like to touch something that I make somay and so we agreed that I would go back to school so I went back to school I'm still in school finished my first part of the in May um for architectural grafting and so I feel like that's something that's probably a little bit more applicable to planning specifically um and as part of that I take classes on evaluating the site on um evaluating landscape in terms of you know what's available in the community case studies Community engagement and really understanding what the people in the community want um and that part has been really interesting to me because I have been so involved in finding a here and so I think that that's um something that I'm very passionate about so with me you get a little bit of marketing background as project manager for about 15 years um very capable of managing things on time and on budget and um and I also have a passion for live so um kind of a bued background but sometimes that's the way it goes um and then in terms of local government service um I was on the west not ear childood advisory Council which is school specific but I served for two years on the board and then um one of the years as president and um I also was part of the yes West TKA um bond election and um you know I've done several other things throughout the school various quots for trades um and um I also um was attending that whole organization District meeting um with superintendent so those are handful of things in the last four years here and then in past service um you know United Way um and various other things throughout um so thank you well thank you too um again you've sort of answered our questions why are you applying and um and I guess both of you I'm assuming have the time because it's not a lot of time but the Planning Commission meets once a month generally except for in December the park commission meets doesn't meet once a month um it it's kind of sporadic as as need be I would say maybe only a couple times two to three times a year uh last year we started uh something new the where the park Commissioners put together um a um what was called Party in the Park and so they participated um coordinating that and then also participated in that event as well and we ask our planning and Parks Commissioners to also join us for our special events if you have time we have um the holiday tree lighting of course which is a lot of fun so um you're invited to that and um and then we also have a state of the city address too and again if you can attend we recognize you at those at those events as well so those are some of the things that we do and that we hope that you can participate in as well [Music] question n then so we I think so here's what we have um we have Jeff Riser is um has applied for reappointment to the Parks Commission and it's been our past practice to um reappoint them um it's always nice when that you have one that you have people that want to continue um because they have that experience in background but we still have an open uh Park commission seat besides Jeff so I would um highly recommend that we appoint um gissa this year in to that and and then we have um Daman young reapplied for the for his position on the Planning Commission and he's currently the chair so I think it would behoove us to reappoint him um Heather Charles decided not to reapply and so there's an open commission seat so I would highly recommend that we appoint um um Lindsay Jameson to that and then uh I think we do we have another open seat on the planning or is it an alternate alternate okay so we have an alternate seat on the planning and parts but it's more important to get the alternate seats on on planning fi because if some of our commissioners can't make it add on the Planning Commission so I would ask would you be interested in an alternate seat it's not every time and if you can't make it you can't make it but um it's just um our alternates are two full one they can officially fill in and have a voice at the commission when we don't have a full commission and then the other thing is kind of like a a planning commissioner in um in Waiting in training so to speak so that might be something you might if you're interested in now yeah especially being less commitment on the side okay okay and it is less a little less commitment on the Planning Commission side as well but still also still gets you involved and gets gets you to know a few other people well so um are we kind of inre with that yes I think both of you um very impressive resumees and um would be great to haveif so uh thank you very much so that those will'll be making those appointments um officially in our regular meeting which is at 7 you don't have to stick around if you don't want to well you really can't do both you can't okay oh I see well I see okay you're you're on planning if you if if you wanted do we need an alternate right ER depends upon the third what you do with the third applicant that applied that isn't here this evening Ashley May that she was specific to Parks Parks maybe would just put her on Parks so then if Jamie wanted to be in alternate parks then fill our Parks correct yeah I think that would be a good idea if we're okay with that because I know Parks sometimes were short correct so if you would like to be in alternate to Parks um again if they don't me very often okay so staff has knows what they what what we want and they'll notify you and I think our next so question would Jamie be here for the U swearing in would she be saring in on Monday correct yes yep so this coming Monday on the 27th we have a Planning Commission meeting if both of you would like to be there because you're an alternate we'll square both of you in and then you would be seated as a commissioner and um Carissa if you would like to sit in just to kind of get a feel for it unless you don't have a I was GNA say it's likely you might be in the the hot seat right away some the attendance is so yes um if you want to stick around so here's the other thing uh we do have a a cannabis discussion a cannabis ordinance discussion and that actually we're going to kind of be giving staff in in the Planning Commission Direction that's going to go to the Planning Commission on Monday so if you'd like to stick around to kind of hear and listen to what we're talking about on that um then you kind of can get a heads up or a step up on that for Monday night so and the meeting Monday night is 7 o' you have time but so if you want to stick around you can um that's coming up soon I mean our our candid discussion is probably about half an hour okay with that we'll move on to the water treatment plan update or do we want to do the Cannabis discussion hold on would you be okay if we did the Cannabis discussion first and then these ladies can listen in and then if they would like to leave they can leave because the treatment probably isn't all okay so let's start with the Cannabis was taking um Madame mayor I think our uh legal representation Joe Joe Joe Mr Joe Mr Joe can can get us started and and kind of overview and then get feedback uh there'll be some specific questions that kind of need guidance on and then uh we'll go from there okay thank you very much so before you today uh are two separate ordinances IND the first is the zoning ordinance and the second is what I call the administrative section the original plan for tonight was just talk about zoning but I was available make it easier for everybody to talk about both of those and the way that I like to think about this it's from businesses perspective what does their process look like it helps form how these Oran are structured what a business applies for a license of 12 to 14 different Canabis business license they'll go to the state get can and app for the license as part of that process prior to getting the license for every single candid business they will reach out to the city and ask does the proposed location V the city if the answer is yes then go back to the OC they go through the rest of the process or disapprove the license application for retail businesses there's another St after they receive the license they then have to go back to the city and register the registration process is that process is the second that basically tells the city this is where these products be sold to the public and then allows the city enforcement power suspend that registration retailers not acting in accordance with the license so that's kind of the big General when you're thinking about from high level there are two things that you can can't do by time the first is kind ofci out materials what do you want to designate specific districts in which to allow these different businesses or or you can just not this takes a hybrid approach where we designating the districts to make stat life easier application comes in you say okay this is for a cannabis facturer and then you can just for each of these business types the major limitation C that you can't turn up all your dials to 11 and any of these types businesses so the opposite side of that reach only has a residential district they are not required to create a commercial District to allow these businesses but if one were to exist that's where we the high level sort of over before we jump in they may have question so far just for clarification the cities the cities can't or don't issue the licenses that's right do we have any say I know that at one time they were saying that you could wait in so is that still an option or not no not that was the 2023 version B all right but basically they can go to the state get their license and city has no say I mean they they come in with their license they say I have a license in hand just just so we know that's and then we have to say okay here's the zoning districts that you can operate the the only clarification I to that summary is that the zoning clarification zoning certification occurs before and that's what said right this would be our only B at the Apple this is your best at the Apple um you'll be able to update these and iware service contract framework now very solid framework and we will send you push updates probably twice this year once every year after is it possible to limit the zoning just to saal area yes for all types of yes you can liit any of these bus types do so cannabis cultivation can occur both indoors and Outdoors and the way that this is drafted would allow for both indoors and outdo cultivation in the industrial district this is one of those gray areas where the city could say call out cultivation is only about when completely closed in the structure um we don't know if will be chall do that on it what do we care if they grow inside or I do why if it's grown outside they probably grow they're still um giv preference to con lies first the like a preference yeah the well the lottery I think the sociality applicant Lottery was for most intensive abandoned by after loty still but it's going to be occuring at the same time the lottery for all applicants so there the answer is yes and no is really clear said the the number one goal is a convicted shock to have a we business so differ doesn't make it get grown outside or inside just rather at all no I think it's more secure can you say you can only go inside the council can that's the great area where the licens langage statute the license you can do however because Zing certification occurs located that's not OP statute that as well for cultivation isn't there a requirement for fencing and not visible the street yes there are significant standards related to out cation lighting ding down 11i I don't believe so I'm not with one so here's here's my concern you know if we say okay for for all the other ones um only commercials only that's fine but my concern is if somebody comes in and wants to do cultivation in our commercial on a commercial loan property those are generally about 15 acres and next to some of our residential property so so my question is just consider do we want to allow cultivation in our commercial area only or do we want to allow it in our a district on 50 acres or more that would also limit it that's just throwing it out um that would really limit the the areas where they could do cultivation you know what I'm saying I don't want to make it easy for them to do anything I understand but what I'm saying is if we say you can do cultivation in our commercial District only okay the commercial district is on Highway St basically okay so and most of the properties on Highway 7 and David you can weigh in that are commercially zoned are somewhere between 15 and 20 acres or so and they're right on Highway side so if you don't want it visible you don't want so what I'm saying is as an alternative what if we say that um cultivation only cultivation can occur on an a zone property but it has to be more than 50 acres and if you look at our a districts and the the size of the the carels that we have it's going to be few and far between the half 50 acres or more there's there are some there are some but I'm just saying that limit that gives you this placey that limitation or greater limitation I'm just throwing it out i' rather but there's a lot of 20 ACR out there that's commercial [Music] there's there's some that's little I think [Music] some growing motion only and it has to be the the what this is doing is like I said we're kind of giving Planning Commission some direction then there's seven people on the Planning Commission that are going to discuss this and and and come up with a recommendation and then it's that Council again so we probably don't have to go into too great a depth let's just kind of give um David and Jo a little more some kind of Direction so if you want to keep it all in in commercial we'll do that we'll give them that I would like to hear what PA location these businesses um C certainly there a lot of different factors here if you in my opinion just is a high level uh overview of this if you were to force this into a commercial area it's going to be more visible whether it's inside or outside um the idea of allowing the cultivation only certainly wouldn't be in favor of a retail business in zones but um any kind of growing operation seems like it would be better suited for a rural spot because most people are going to see it just by inherent nature of where it is um I think from um you know it's hard to say what this would look like or how how much of a demand we're going to get but uh as far as security enforcement things like that that would be a much easier thing to deal with if it's in a rural space as well versus in a commercial area um and then doesn't have a lot of commercial space at least not today so that said we really want to Pi up Prime commercial property with large cultivation process for operations that's burn up a lot of commercial space for something that's kind of space intensive in my um otherwise I don't know that it matters it's really hard to say what the demand will be so I think go ahead mentioned earlier that the city will certainly have the ability to address this once we see what this looks like and what the demand is and then they can things accordingly if we don't like Direction it's going well I think your point um your points are well me thank you Chief and and especially we don't have a lot of commercial space and we do want to encourage more commercial Enterprises we want to take it it discourage them we don't have a lot ofer discour only see there may be related that um since we are on the edge of Metro more people to you have I don't sense where each these say understand anot that performance standards for security signicant the desired size for these facilities no this is the direction again we we just want to kind of high level and kind of pass it on to the Planning Commission they're going to go through it and then it's going to come back to us again we can then go through their recommendations and you know I think tonight we we don't have to get into all the real details you know what I'm saying yeah if it goes up to the they could be in between two presidential F yes that's why I'm saying it has to be so that they're far away from and the other so then the other question is do they need iups or can we make it a requirement that like a culation bu that would be another thing So currently in the ordinance that you have businesses out based on that District now and so is Allin the ey District everything the district except for retailers canas retailers and canas but it was the current graft is everything thect except those retailers which would be pered so and then this this is the buffer so under statute the city can establish ft from the school 500 ft from residential treatment facilities dayes most confusing but most an attraction within a par well yes including and so the C includes athletic Feld so this map iser from the order of every par which if challenge I think could be a problem um because the set specifically limits to these features that are frequented by so that my guess and understanding is that cities wouldn't take the boards of large so this map just context the industrial area in the current gra be allowed for all the can two retail options which then would use the properties here and again considering buffers or not I'm not confident that if these buffers were made from actual Park features within the park that they would touch any or many of these commercial properties particularly the one to the South the most I'm not confident that was included and then so the question just on B is given the minimal potential impact of these buffers is it still the council desire to buffers from everything is the maximum amount just from Park features because the schools don't AR near any commercial and Industrial properties um just in general it adds an administrative step to keep these buffers updated based on the question that see in ordinance draft for so these are the buffers by state statute that you they're maximum that you can have that's right so that's what we would want so um go forward with that I would just say map is confusing so it might be [Music] easier for the planning Commissioners especially um where where the businesses could be versus this because this is confusing for me is the it is based on the lot IND lot so for example that kind of tall skinny one like left most red you can see that the buffer just covers the I put stor in the 100 ft along seven there the lot be you as a councel are able to decide how the measurement is made from the Cannabis business and technically from the the school daycare resident treatment facility the problem is par feature language is more limiting than those others so essentially have cities create a parcel on this map that is the park feature then you can Adra easier but answer your question if there was a park feature in that the park that is buffered from that was and you decided to have the measurement be to the property line and those overlap then the whole parcel could be taken out but you don't have to um and that is one of the things that made big change based on what I call legislative changes Ru making changes or litigation changes litigation inspired Changs to the plan commission and come back um and then we'll we'll take a look I think we should consider we'll we'll we'll see it again so it has to go to the Planning Commission because it has to be a public hearing will it be a public hearing at that point or will the Planning Commission just be kind of reviewing it and working through the details how will that work it is a we have publicized for a public hearing so there there will be a public hearing with open comments at the the meeting next week okay and if any council member wishes to attend just let staff know um I will be at the Planning Commission meeting as the latest on so with that okay any other direction you need uh not on the the items that are going to planning but uh if you wanted to talk about some of the other items in the administrative side that that now or at a future meeting um how much time do we have we have two other things we have to talk about tonight um let's um how long will that take it can take as little as five to 10 minutes or as long as you want it to take um 5 to 10 minutes now and then if we need it longer we'll have to have you back how's that that sounds great okay um just so very briefly look at the itself I just want to point out a couple of things looking atue allow liting number retailers registration process you can limit the number of registrations issued by the city to one for 12,500 individuals so the ordinance limits the number of registrations to one however there's also the opportunity if there are already one registration is already one registration for 12,500 residents in the county issued by any City for the county the county you can say no to that one retail registration but it's sort of who gets the applications first the current trft this ordinance allows the city to say no to any retailers get that threshold the I can't see people coming all the way out to Manchester when this I can see Mound I'm just not sure that they're going to drive all the way down Highway 7 for you know to yeah any okay theule will be updated Maxim statute real kind of question that I have left is about there's the ability to limit the hour of operation for from the is from 8:00 a.m. to 2: a.m. the next day Monday through Saturday except for Sunday which can open the statute allows the C you want to toggle back both of those things to be between 10 a.m. 900 p.m. on any day so that's something would like to see the and then the the thing is is we want to also make this kind of um police friendly if you sure that Paul would much prefer 10 or 900 p.m whatever it is versus 2: am. yes that makes little sense to me and actually that was the only thing I'll bring up something called the temporary canas event um which is somewhere between a trade show and trade show it's not really what it's going to be it'll be canis once they get these licenses to come together 4 day period with a state license to sell Canabis to who there that also includes the the city can establish regulation you can't prohibit December you can't prohibit you can't proh well as the statute's written because it's a cannabis business we can limit it to particular zoning districts and you can under the statute these events could include on-site consumption of cannabis unless the city says no we don't want onsite consumption oh go that's just I can just so this is not included in the final version of the ordinance uh here because we have more time to deal with this it's not going to happen so people get their licenses for a while the question question just is is the limiting where these events can take place within the city something you're interested in and then also is it is that you want to follow a specific individual process to approve these permits or rely on some so they they have to come to the city for a permit yes that they they have to there has to be if there is a city permit process they have okay and then we can put we're limited on what we can permit or not permit you are able to yes you can't prohibit the entire event but the thing you could Prov is okay but how are you gonna yeah okay all right um I'm just thinking all right okay um well again take that to the Planning Commission probably yeah sounds great all right all right thank you very much absolutely um next we are can I put can I do one more thing I'm gonna um number four because I see the Mater family here the sewer assessment forgiveness request so um can we do that I'm hoping that'll be 10 minutes or so um that so they came as you remember they came to Chistmas to be heard they have like a $20,000 assestment uh for sewer they're not in the Musa they don't have sewer to their property they couldn't even hook up to sewer even if they wanted to this was an assessment back in the early mid mid 70s and um and they didn't pay it and so it's just kind of been accumulating so I'm not sure why or maybe um the maters could help us out here so back in the mid 70s what happened is they were trying to not the cities all around the lake were trying to sewer all of the properties especially around the and in CO's proximity to had to do with water quality if I'm not mistake and so what the city what our city did and again this is by hears so I I can't tell you that this is verbatim or the Bible but um what I've heard over the years is that the city kind of took a a large um area and said okay all these all these properties are eventually going to be sewered and so we're going to slap an assessment on all these properties well then as you know with the Met Council they're saying okay you can only do this is the muset area and outside the M area those can't be sewered so a lot of those properties even though they maybe paid that assessment they're still outside the mus nor do they have sewer lines going to that so it's kind of a conundrum I don't know if Brian or David or anybody else wants to weigh in Jasper I let Brian he's been kind of the point of contact with the Mayers and has done a lot of the research and I think you got it pretty well in a in a nutshell mayor I mean from what I've heard this was yeah back in the early 70s and that's the assessment might have been a $500,000 assessment 500 parcel or something yeah but um and then obviously this was um think I noted in the memo this was deferred by City staff in the council back in the time there was one assessment in 1975 and then another one in 1980 that was sent to the county I don't know if it was just additional interest or or what it was but that's what's showing when you go to hban County and look up on the uh the parcel is those two amounts so obviously Council would have to be the ones to give direction to you know let us to the county to do something you know different with those assessments and when you look at the assessments so you get a list of Assessments from the county every year and then when you list when those assessments are listed it specifically says what they're for correct yeah I think I noted in yeah basically it's got a levy number and a description with it as far as yeah these are sewer assessments is what how they were labeled yes sanitary sewer approvement and then there was another one that was deferred or sanitary sewer deferred so I think that you know it's all stemming back from that original you know what you described from like the you know early to mid '70s and are you all familiar as to where this property is located so it's not in the Musa it's outside the Musa um it might come in someday but it kind of adds a layer of um say confusion because even when they come into the Musa then one you do because if they come in and the property is developed they have to pay area charges they have to pay the sa charges they have to take connection fees then what do you do if they pay the $20,000 now is that used against know it it kind of gets all moneyed up and thing so just we don't need it in our sewer right now in our sewer fund we're pretty pretty solvent in our sewer fund and this is the last one there are no more like this they've either been paid or they've been forgiven or they've connected to S one of those it's the last to fer assessments all our other assessments for the county are are current or active for road projects and exception forgiven I don't I don't recall any in my time here being forgiven I think most of them were paid way back when 50 years ago you know but this is just the one case that I'm aware of that's still out there as far as that St seem to me if everybody else should have paid that at least $500 yeah if everybody in that area paid it decided to it seems like that's not fair to other I would go with that not the I'm fine with the 500 I'm sure me me and our family would be happy with the 500 my only my only question is and um maybe Joe you could weigh in on this um again 500 I'm sure that's fine but if you assess a property there has to be a benefit and since there is no sewer line even close to this property and they couldn't connect even if they wanted to is there a benefit that's a great question I am not familiar with this situation so I would like to there was that determination made back when this was imposed had to have them so um if you us to look into this we can give you a answer well yeah this was like 50 years ago so if I may um if I may I would say if if if the group here doesn't think there's a benefit then you're helping their argument to say there's not a benefit and then it should be probably zero but there might be a benefit to potentially having access at some point in time whatever that means so it's up to this group if you think there's benefit it's up to them to to think if there isn't benefit to fight it but um I would say either zero or 500's noit so the only so I guess I would wonder if we you order order for us to send something to the county and stuff I wonder if we'd want to bring this back on consent like with a resolution to say the council is has you know basically however you want to say it zeroed out I guess or you know what the proper terminology is yeah yeah and that should take off the Deferred assessments and then then I would be able to send that down and hopefully they should be able to do that I mean obviously based on the council's direction and resolution or whatever that would be good um so what will happen is it'll just come back in a form of a resolution to our next meeting which is February 3rd and it'll just be on consent and then we'll just approve that we're basically approving it now if you will so I don't know if that makes a difference for your closing but um if it does okay so that that's how we'll we'll handle this staff will write up a resolution I'm assuming you'll get in touch with the maters and let them know what that is and it'll just be on our consent so thank you all right hopefully we won't have any more of these because that that was just a nightmare I remember her dad okay all right now Aaron we're going to talk about the water treat all right Madam mayor members of council appreciate you g me an opportunity to speak again about the water project I'm Aon bmer ofs met most of you um there all right so um I guess what I'd like to come and speaking about tonight is just updates on the project uh and can I give you a current status update on L and design and some updates in cost that so uh with that okay so uh our team started design last year uh with the goal of Designing a 2,100 G minut water plant we had done some preliminary analysis as part of water system study U but really got design last year to get into detail um engineering of the project so this was our initial proposed layout for facility see there on the West Side the two green circles two gr and facility located just the long north to south rectangle there with the doed line that very well that's attached to the lar and then uh through some discussions with City staff we looked at uh different accesss into the site ultimately we determined that connecting Lotus was the best option for the site liit impact on the neighborhood to the north uh and we did look at connecting to Highway 7 but just uh some of the logistical challenges with we decided to go so so we're uh actively working with three over Park District to gain access through ad easement to the Northeast um and connect so that that I think it's in the best interest of the project so this is the original layout um as we got into things and for about did a more detailed cost estimate cost came in higher than so we went back and we reevaluated the layout felt like we need be more efficient with the space add things a little bit more so kind of back that 30% design Milestone our team paused sat down with Gary andity staff revise the layout tighten it up a little bit more to do best we could Lim the cost so this is the revised layout that we plan Report with a 60% design and the team is actively working on on that right now um but the costs are still higher than what we' left so I'll go through some of the detail discussion of the facility and then we'll talk about costs um so so this is the show us the um the new footprint then I know you have there okay um so this is the new footprint so the revised layout on the same site we've rotated at 90° the clear well the dotted line there is the uh clear well to the South the well are still in the same location on the west uh gadway access is all the same but it's a slightly smaller footprint again trying to be u a little bit more compa so this is updated layout still produces the same amot of water same storage volume so um this is the two-day layout our process and facility design team is working on this design in a 3D model so this is just a snippet of the facility from the 3D model it's very boring in the outside at the moment because we really haven't done a lot from architecture standpoint it's been very focused on cost cost cost cost and function we need it to function and produce water and we need it to be as cheap as possible so uh this is we'll take ugly sorry um so this is just rotating a little bit further to the east or sorry to the West this is from the back side so this would be uh from Highway 7 um looking North you can see that the lighter portion that's a very clear so that's that's the very yeah so if I take the roof off this gives you a little bit of a picture of the inside of the facility that's first the main level yeah so this is the main level the uh the blue box portion is the main filtration portion of the facility um and there's a basement to that where we have tanks that refaim water after a back wash process is completed and then reuse that water send any of the partic partic to se so that's below that picture of that so the blue portion is the filtration portion and the yellow is where we store chemicals to do the treatment process the Orange is the electrical mechanical rooms and then got small refor allow room and then storage so it's a fairly simple facility um there it will function do everything it needs to do to treat water uh at 2100 Gall a minute uh we did um as part of our design our goal was to be able actually pump out of the facility a little bit more than 2,000 so be 2800 gallons a minute and really the goal there was to try to um limit the need for future storage system so if during a high peak demand scenario uh in the middle of the the day people are watering Longs we can push a little more your system to keep your Towers more full um and that ultimately delays the need for additional elevated storage so uh if you remember uh when we did the master plan and study we looked at storage needs into the future we felt like you're kind of right on the edge of storage needs right now ultimately getting into deficit very soon um and our original concept had a 300,000 gon well uh concept um that would buy you a little bit of time um but ultimately we were still recommending elevated Tower in 2030 um which is not that far away um as we've refined this design the the concept that I just showed you included a 750,000 cwell um and that additional pumping would allow us to push an additional elevated tower out to at least 2040 the clearwell you're saying is 750,000 gallons okay and so um and that'll push the tower out to 2040 750,000 would actually probably give us more time um but there's also limits of how much you can pump out so okay we we've started with 750 our team's looking at and we reduced that for cost timately we'll probably end up around 600,000 space but that's why I do so if you did 500,000 how can you how much can you pump out then you you can still pump out the 2,800 G at 500,000 G you just pump it a little bit lower ultimately kind of the perfect number is probably closer to 600 so um I just showed our two increments that we've been working with in our design but I think we'll end up closer to that 600,000 that allows us to push your current proposed tower out to at least 24 and this is all projections you know if you grow faster that number will come but we felt like that was at least uh worth investigating because we can delay substantial costs beyond the water plant and it may be wor making that investment out uh based on our experience in other cities a 1 million gallon water tower is ranging anywhere from six to8 million so you're talking 1 million gallon 1 million gallon elevated storage cuz see we only we don't that's combined we don't even have that in the southern system so so you could do something slightly smaller than that uh we recently finished a water tower in Robinsdale that was 750,000 gallons I think that was six 6.7 so and that was three years two two years so you know by 2040 it will be substantially more prob than 8 million but again delaying some of those cost we felt like if we can put a little bit more effort into plant it might buy time at least to that project so well maybe we'd have some of our other bonds paid off I think so that's the so that was our logic but we don't have to I'll go through some of those scenarios here soon so like I mentioned the costs were coming in high in our estimate this reflects the the revised layout um concrete expens of a lot of the treatment but we looking at is expensive we're constantly shocked by the costs as we get estimates uh from suppliers um but ultimately with the design we have that I just showed you we're expecting probably between 23 and 24 the fth estimate um with some other costs for engineering Administration through geotechnical work on site so ultimately between 26 and 27 would be a reasonable estimate this time for that um that doesn't include I think couple updates it doesn't include the cost for heing Wells that that was 1.8 million I think we already awarded those yeah that's already awarded how much are they. 1.6 1.62 plus engineerings were 1.7 plus some engineer cost 1.8 on aage rounded and then also to add the um and then 750 for the was 400,000 Change Plus for that project we'll need to decommission plus four and five so that's probably 600,000 per commissioning forone conservation well and then our team is also recommending along Highway 7 um right now the plan would uh to that we just install right we were recomending looping along highway to push water down just to help a spear system operation that wouldn't have to happen right away but that's probably. so I'm full of bad news today I apologize I know you're fired right it's my job to make sure you guys get water so so ultimately adding all those other costs in we're looking at mil okay I know it's shock I get it is shocking um so contingency 15% really seriously yes that's very very common for the stage okay for this stage so um generally by the time you're done is it 5% is it what do we look so yeah we have 50% right now at our 60% deliverable we'll drop that down to 10 at our 90% Del that'll be five total stay because you always want to carry a little bit for construction phase um my recommendation is you we I know often times people look at contingency as maybe we won't have to spend that money I would recommend it's we're not going to spend 15% but I know we'll probably 5% we just aren't sure where so concrete cost we're stilling so it really I the number is 23.6 and know so ouch um so we've been talking with our Senator um our new newly elected Senator um an Johnson Stewart and we've been talking with our newly reelected um representative and they're fully on board with promoting trying to get a number one getting a bond bonding bill which we don't even know will happen um number two they're fuling on board with trying to promote us getting some of that b money should should that happen so but we don't know so but this is this this is the amount in addition to the other the well amount that we were just talking about and this is in addition to the um Bond and money that we've already borrowed and spent on previous so what do we did what do we do about 124 million so far yeah I think our annual debt payment yeah well that in projects right we we pay already out of the water from about 1.1 million a year in debt right and so now adding this I mean we so just like oh my back um so we have to get some bonding money I mean that's my opinion we just have to get it um so my question is can we find out how if if they don't do a bonding bill this year and we waited um we went through this whole process and we got all the design and everything and even if we go off for big is there some I what if we don't get money bonding money then because this is just astronomical we have about 2400 water that's about what we have and this will shoot us up to be nearly the top water rates in the in the region what can we do um prices will never down so delaying definitely won't reduce the project cost I don't know what inflation will look like it has started to flatten a little bit it's not nearly what it was after um but it's likely that the project will continue to go up at four to six% um so in the size of a project that's substantial dollars I don't know what your funding rate is but it's probably close to that starts interest um so well then the other question is how much can we bond for that's the other question I mean is is there a cal just Bank qualified versus non-bank qualifi we have that 10 million a year but I don't think this the spreads so I quarter to half per or something yeah there there's no limit to the amount of money we can Bond it's just we probably pay maybe hundred 150 basis points more for all that above 10 million something like that wored about yeah we'd be basically doubling our debt on our City's books as well as making our utility rates having to go up 50 60% a year or something or something yeah I mean for a couple years which I can't imagine our residents would even accept that at all I mean it's just not practical or feasible and I think we yeah I mean so we're about how much how far are we into the design of it uh we between 30 and we we did look at option so I need to come and say this that you know our team is thinking about what could we do to reduce the cost of the facility um I really broke it down to three options continue with the facility we we have and look at additional cost saving measures aration boting of the storage acity um we do have a fling scrub in there uh that's more of an emergency scenario looking at a cheaper uh option which would be automatic shot valves um so those three alone we can probably pull out somewhere between one one half um I wouldn't say they're absolutely necessary but we want we could investigate removing those um if that's not enough reduction option two would be going to a gravity filter uh that's Steel simar facility um we talk we looked at that a little bit in the preliminary phase um get details a minute and option would be more of a pressure filter design which is much more so um if we go into detail on option two so moving to something that's a little bit closer what you guys have at your team Point PL um it would allow us to we would essentially remove the entire clear well and pumping capabilities which would then not give us the ability to your future storage U but it probably would save25 million to remove that well um it would also remove subst level that facility because those steel fils that Calk 300,000 plus a bunch of other kind of miscellaneous things through through the facility so I would estimate 3 to 5 million is probably will to bring cost down like a steel Builder with no um but we would need to do the additional in the near future when we see that um if we want to go another level down as far as cost to move to pressure filters uh this more compressed filter design so it's essentially your wells pump directly into a pressure filter and then directly into the system so uh you you remove ariation and detention um and so limiting that probably half million the mar design probably a million um remove the clear well and high service pumps uh completely so that's a 3 million in reduction plus again complete upper level would go away so that's another so that's probably five to C to the project um I would probably because of the impact filter design it's and it's different than uh the system you have currently I would probably want to Pilot the water that is going to be coming from the wells to make sure we can accom treat we want to accomplish in that compact filter design the the design we have right now I'm confident in that because it it has the additional ariation and detention gives us time to do things account bu if we need to pressure filter is a little bit more agress Tre it's smaller it's more to react so I want to Pilot that how do you pilot it though because we're not going to build the plant and then having pil well we have the wells okay those are being drilled so we could put a small pump in those Wells and we we' have a trailer basically on site where we pil it in a trailer small column with the water and J you different chemicals F media to make sure we do would work uh and we basically a water plant in small trailer sh so we would look at doing that um we wouldn't be able to do that to the spring the Wilder drill and then we would finish the design if indeed the pressure filters were an option so why couldn't you do do that for a year I'm just I'm just thinking why couldn't you do that for a year until we find out if we could get some bonding money do what do the pilot theil really only takes a couple so but why couldn't you continue that but that's a small scale you're only talking enough to find out what your what you're going to have to this is not a big scale colum so that would be something we do on site for coup weeks toine tune our treatment capabilities um and then if that would work then we could go with a pressure filter design and ulter probably costs um again we would still likely need storage because we would get an additional pumping but you're talking storage five years from now yes and we're going to whether it's 5 years from now or 10 years from now I mean start so my personal opinion I don't see it's much benefit in the steel gravity filter scenario because I don't think it uh I don't think it cuts enough cost to really justify the change and you would still have the the near-term storage I think a pressure filter does cut substantial costs um youd still have the storage needs but it's a more if you really at Cost cutting now that's the better way to go than kind of option two i' go option one or three is kind of I will know like if I may option three if it doesn't work then we go back to option one and that might delay the project by nine months and then we're still doing this but now the the cost went up 5% I don't know something like that so just know if if option three is kind of swirling around in your head that there's a risk there's a lot of unknowns um it might work um I don't know what the likelihood is but have you done this before I guess that would be have we pilot off piloting is this type of the pressure filter yeah pressure filters are a common uh technology in the industry so what would make you think that it wouldn't work here um so so your Kings Point your Kings Point plant has some struggles with because they use aeration detention filtration right now that's the process they use right at that that plant and they I'll have to feed a polymer to but the iron block that's created through the oxidation process they have to feed a polymer to make that kind of a little bit bigger so they can build through it well okay um my concern was because we don't know what the wells are going to look like on site you may have similar challenges and that might be a challenge in a pressure Builder because much so in a pilot mimic limited detention time on the water that we're going to be treating um our original design I was confident we had the IR detention similar to what you have at point we have time to make those things happen except so there's a couple things so the um that treatment plan the Kings Point treatment that is in the tunnel city that is in the TWC um say oh and um aquifer but these are in the MIM and in the Jordan I believe so they're different aquifers so we don't even know I mean they might be different different water quality that would be the it's much better water quality we don't have the organic issues that we have at p and then likely a pressure and even if we did have organic issues we may be able to make it work again I want to test before we invest millions of dollars the so if we decided to do option number three if you guys have questions just jump in um how much would that cost because let's just say we wanted to do option three to save this maybe $6 million or whatever um what would it cost to do that pilot and then if it doesn't work then we're I back to option one but I mean I know we've lost that nine months but isn't it that J one question I have and I haven't even asked you this yet so is there is it possible to do pressure filters with a clear well um and service pumps it is um it's not common okay um just because that's kind of the benefit of a pressure filter and you can but has press oh yeah but then we're not saving the money so so see if you can follow my training okay so the the getting rid of the the um clearw and the service pump saves about $3 million or more well I think that's about three million um yeah and the tower in five years is 6 to 8 million and if we want to delay that tower for probably 15 years it's a $3 million investment now yeah so I'm trying to get the best of both worlds to see if that'll work um because I think that we're going to be talking about storage in a couple of years um if we don't address it today so that's why I ask the question to see if there's a way to get like a cheaper filter with also storage but then you're only saving yeah two two to three million versus the five to seven so and here's the thing um we're growing we're we're Hing to hope to grow anyway um and so rather than strapping our current residents with this enormous water rates I'm thinking if you spread that out so even if you needed that storage in 2030 when is that um other bond is at 2035 so which one the water Tu no the um treatment plants that we did I think we did those in 2015 yeah I think the PFA goes on that till 201 35 35 so even if we stretched it out to 2035 by that time that that um payment is going away which is nearly million dollars 900 some thousand yeah it's it's the bulk of it that's the bulk of it but then then we could afford if you will to take tag on another Bond take on a new Bond you know without this is you know I'm just looking at the money here um so if if we could do option number three without the clear well now and save even if it's 5 million or 6 million I think that's worth the saving can we delay it by 9 months do you know because I think starting it doesn't really matter we're not it's not like we're it's not like roads right yeah so well have a couple slides so um on the funding side we did reapply to the PF between 30 and 60% because they originally said you don't qualify I strongly disagree argued with them they came around but we didn't score enough high enough to qualify for f so they said yeah you qualify to be on the list but you don't have enough need to be in the fundable range so at the very bottom of the list fun will range so really the PFA funding is not an OP um so um so with that we're we're looking at traditional bonding um and this is our design title right now if we continue forward so I haven't adjusted it for the N9 month delay but our team is in a good spot where we've put energy into the chemical fee and the front kind lab space but I told them to kind of pulled off on that filter clear while this we're going to be having this discussion so if we say hey we want to see if we can compact this a little bit um yeah that would be we essentially tell our team to pause do the n we start piloting the spring when the wells are operational um gu basically we have a casing we work with the wild driller a pump there we set skid pilot and once we have results we would start design again on whatever have we wasted money on the current design um no because my my hope would be that we would just replace the gravity filters with so everything else around that would stay the same but I'd want to tell me stop now okay I I I don't know if you want to give Gary an opportunity to to speak he's over there I know he's got a lot on his mind um and this is you know this is his Department this is his his kind of baby so kick the on last time we did this too we don't say the this is the m for so I don't we're notzing the no I know but got everything need the water I mean I know what else to say I mean it's we're to the point where we need the water we're going to have to do it hour or later I mean it's never going to be cheaper you can't stop building develop when I'm I'm a homeowner I'm not on water either oh I'm not on water Brian you're on water um I was looking at these numbers and thinking this is going to be you want to know the numbers what people are going to have to pay for a 20,000 gallon quarterly bill which is probably low you're probably going to be paying $700 you're paying $2 to $300 a month for water and that is you're on the low end of the water scale okay so I I look at that and I say is this what we want to put on our residence well I think we have to spend a lot of time just flying them with this information like right come in and tell us you don't want us to do this or we have to do this and I think you know the challenges of the the water department staff are having you know some many just last year w three just supplementally 38 million gallons of water that's a nonfiltered that's putting iron into your system which is driving a lot of the so so we have the capacity to to keep up with the man we have wells four and five that are not great they you mod system but it's terrible fall driving of compl so I think the message the residents also is we're trying to save money but that comes at Cost take this to like to the other facility rent a pacity how come we can pump 38 million gallons from non-treated Wells why can't we pump 38 million gallons from the new wells instead so so the the wells that currently DRS 8 n will be replacements for four and five right so those Wells what we're drilling right now is just the casing so they will not be outfitted with any kind of pump um the pump would be included it's included in the water plant project pump TR to the water plant if we want to just use those Wells unfilter you have to build a wellous and chemical treatment there Source treatment investing million or2 million in a well house then use those Wells for the time being right florid do by state standards you get it out water so okay Council this is I I'm sorry always don't disca yeah this is a council decision not just my decision so it's almost like we don't have Choice don't haveo well we have option one two or three is two that much different than one and Gary hates three so Gary knows more about this than we do am right well Gary do you really hate three or or is it just because we don't have that currently well we don't have I mean it would work would be my first choice no I don't think it be but if it is to save money then that's we're do if I may I think I think probably I can maybe summarize for Gary I think the the higher priority is to get it done sooner than later you know I think that's probably a higher priority than the type of treatment and the clear well and if we're going to delay it's more of you know there's a need right now we're pumping a lot of untreated water um into the system unfiltered water it's treated point source treated um but you know as we grow and as people if we last year you you know we used 37 million gallons it was a pretty wet summer if we have another dry summer it's going to be even more uh so I don't know I think that's more of a higher priority to get this done sooner than um you know the the the clearw storage if that's what we're talking about you know let people conserve their water we hope yeah you know but it's a it's a it's it's kind of a catch 22 you know we we need people to use water um to pay for this stuff too so if they can serve too much then then we have to raise rates to capture a finite amount of Revenue so it's this balance that we try to people conserved water we wouldn't need to spend 20 million it's basically if people if everyone in the city was responsible we wouldn't need to spend 20 million but I you're never going to get people to to self police themselves is probably the problem I mean we're basically spending 20 million on irrigation potentially is is the crazy part it's insane but no we're it is it it's got these beautiful strips of w on it I'm taking a picture nobody's going to see us see us we just bu one we're building one we can make it look nice but your point hey i' rather put trees around it and you know versus um spending money on the um yeah this is just getting weight out so I apologize this little news but has the city done anything to invest anything sting water savings I know some of the other cities have like uh subsidized Rio um spring controllers for houses because that's the uh water usage going down we have so that's a met Council program um it's a two-year cycle we missed the cycle last time we will I think it I think it opens back up in 2026 so we they know that we want to get be part of it but um to that point a lot of the homes are are are new and a lot of them have Wi-Fi irrigation controllers already I think the intent the way I understand it is um to replace some of the older irrigation controllers that maybe don't have um some of the new techn ology sensors and tied into Wi-Fi so it knows when it rains a little bit better than the rain sensors that generally don't work over after the first year so we have looked in it we will likely have that program or we're going to enroll in it but not until 2026 and then the other thing is our tears yeah we've been ratcheting up the tears or R ratcheting the tears down and ratcheting up amount so it hopefully will incentivize people to use less but um yeah I think it's helped slightly but not a lot not as much and we've tried to educate people as well I was saying to Jasper maybe we'll have to have a tone hall meeting and just educate people on this cost and and you know why we're doing it but I I'm just I'm just like how in the world can we do this um if you want to Google a case study Google Rockford Minnesota I think a few years back had uh raised their rates you remember reading what that 50% all they were meeting in their Public Works garage they had so many people outraged about that big of increase it's factual people that'll people will notice so yeah yeah I mean there if I may there's a big education piece right there's the pendulum swings if we don't have treated water you you have to be okay with maybe the water not being aesthetically pleasing or you know having a having a different filtration system in your in your house that gets rid of that if that's what you care for um or you pay more for treated water from the S so it's typically in the summer well first summer was about $3,500 for the uh the quarter we moved in before we knew what the water rates were um I install ratch on myself last year and they water usage down by about 60% still no um okay so you need direction right now tonight um no I I understand that this is a big so um you know our team is is focused on deadlines right so they want to keep moving but if if we feel like we need to pause we give you all time to think about it make some decisions I'm fine telling my team let's pause and work on something else for up a little bit here's what I'm going to recommend um Kathleen is absent tonight she had a sick sick child so obviously family comes first I I totally get that um she is also on Water I I really think we need to have a full councel if you will could we bring this back at our work session our February 3rd work session um and then you can fill Kathleen in in the meantime and then we can come back and maybe as a councel um if think about it digest it ask questions whatever uh one more time before we make that final decision so if you could pause until Absolut would that that some would it be possible to have some more defined numbers for but just rough is kind of what would be to actually with the pressure filters as compared to just I mean right now it's justat we kind bit and least a little Shar pencil for them so they kind of what they're looking for yeah and I'll talk to we have there's a couple contractors in the industry that do water plant work I can ask them you know from a preliminary standpoint you know they've been jobs every week what are they seeing for prices what do the think this project is from a so we're doing the best weekend with you know vendor Supply codes and experience um but contract much better it's all all I think that would be good but and then maybe Brian and staff you could put together some numbers in terms of what would this mean for the average home homeowner what what are their bills going to look like I think that's going to be a big big issue and a big question yeah and we'll make the Assumption of I mean we have to make an assumption if either getting some bonding money or no bonding money we'll probably have a couple different scenarios um because that'll that'll affect a lot yes and I know spending are we G apply to that again could another option right so so yeah so I we got the we applied this last cycle which is still in play um they haven't actually taken action on last year's application yet but once that's done then they will likely be another CDs spending round but that might not be until this fall I know and here's the thing Coran got 10 million from the feds why can't we get some I mean come on you know I mean seriously and M gets you know 10.3 million from from the state and here we sit it's like I think so anyhow I do want to um apply again even though we didn't if we can apply for that Federal for those federal dollars as well so okay one more question about like the financing for it are we statutorily required user fees for the water so um yes um yes we are because you can put it in your general Levy but the problem there is not everybody is on City water if if if every body in our city was on City water then you could put it in your general budget because only about onethird of our our properties are on City water and the rest maybe there's two-thirds whatever there's quite a number of people so you have to imagine this if you were on a your private well and you spent money on on on your well and maintaining it and so on and then all of a sudden now you're also paying for your water um that that's you can borrow money from other funds but my understanding is Joe you can weigh in if you know um that you can't use your your water fund has to be paid for out of the buckets water users development fees um connection fees those are the buckets that you have to pay for I yeah I live in a city that actually used the taxes because they overbuilt the growth didn't come right away I live in mayor and they built a huge water treatment plant and they for years were subsidizing keeping their water rat still increasing a lot but being able to subsidized to the taxes and people would go crazy if we tried to do that there because yeah if you're on a private well why would you want to pay taxes for water infrastructure the way sorry the way that Sarah and Ron have explained it to me is we can do it it would be very problematic if we did if we would use taxes so it' be a council decision but it would be highly recommended against well the opposite scenario is I have a and we just spend $3,000 one will Down Deeper spend $8,000 yeah for a while so is there a way we can say that the 2500 people that are on City Water you know you have to kick in $5,000 well that's the other thing I talked to Jasper about I said well is there a possibility where you could Levy an assessment against properties had over 10 years but over 20 years or whatever but again um maybe they can bring that back at our next work session because it it gets problematic because then the current people that are on water are actually paying for the future people if you will so you have to figure out okay what what would be the proper way to assess it if you want to go down that route um and then how much do you assess and you're still going to have to borrow for that for that amount because you don't know how much those assessments are going to be paid off so you're still borrowing all that money so it's it's it's it's I mean I don't if we have to maintain our wealth it cost money then maybe they should share some of the I don't know the how that looks but we could talk about I I've done a lot of research with this um minetonka beaches recently they're building a a plant right now but they did not advocating for this but this is just another thing they do a a $335 a quarter water treatment charge so and that's what's paying you know because I think they have less than a thousand accounts and they're building a$ 10 half million plant so that's another way there's all kinds of different ways to do it I think it's important to to make sure that whatever the funding mechanism is it's transparent to the residents and the users a lot of times the rates are the easiest way to do that um and then you know if you're a conservative user you don't pay as much as somebody that is using a lot maybe not conserving so you kind of if you're going to use it you got to pay for it U mentality so there's a whole bunch of different ways we can fund this um if we're looking at it but yeah yeah I was think out loud it's going 2400 water accounts that's not a lot of people to divide dis million dollars over so just trying to think if there's other ways to spread it out them pain some that's still Equitable and we we've talked about our fees our um area charges and our connection fees and and we tried to ratchet those B we may have to R those up even more um so we'll we'll take a look at that what I'm going to do is we're going to bring this back uh February 3rd for and we'll try and put Less on the work session so if we need to be here for an hour or more just our water water discussion we'll we'll do that is that possible it is and keep in mind we also have our strategic planning session coming up shortly after that too and if we need to talk about it on the 5ifth we can do that as well all right so with that thank you for the bad news weon we won't shoot you yet so um with that that concludes our work session it's our motion to adjourn so and thank you is there a second second thank you so that was Peter viory and Brian second all those in favor all those moot passes for and we will be back at 7 o' so now you know how fun it is but you guys don't have to talk about water treatment stuff