--------- it is 7 o'clock so I'm going to call the meeting to order we have had some issues with these microphones during our work session so hopefully uh they won't act up during the meeting but um if you have cell phones with you please turn them on
airplane mode or silence so they don't disrupt the meeting and our first order welcome everybody and second please join me in Pledge of Allegiance aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which
it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all so I'm going to start with introductions I'm Lisa whan I'm the mayor and to my left are council members Kathleen rekin Anne McGregor Peter
vicory and Claudia Lacy and then we have staff present this evening we have our city engineer with WSB Allison fski we have our director of administration um Ali pus and then we have our Public Works director uh Gary Peters and then
to my right our um Brian Grim who is our finance director David AEL who is our community development director and then Sarah sanso who is our um legal expert attorney thank you and then
um last but certainly not least we have our uh public safety director Paul Falls so with that um I don't have any changes to the agenda or additions so is there a motion to approve as presented so mov
thank you Miss rkin is there a second second thank you Miss McGregor um all those in favor signify with i i i all those opposed motion passes so we're going to start out with special presentations we have our second quarter Financial update and I'm going to hand
it over to Mr grim yes uh thank you Madame Aon counsel and I'll keep this pretty brief because you probably saw in the the packet things are are trending where they should be for the the midpoint of the year um couple of the highlights in the memo we are the revenues for the general fund are about
43 44% which is um pretty much where they are at the end of June we did even get some additional tax money in in early July as well as some additional building permit Revenue um so I think we're actually now even in early July closer to 50% now we're a little over so that's good there and then on the
expenditure side we're right at about 50% which is which is good I think I noted you know we were a little better than last year but we hadn't paid the henan county assessor bill yet which will be our last payment we'll have to make for the henan county assessor seeing they're taking on that um
Services through their countywide Levy so we're sitting pretty well there um otherwise yeah I guess I it's attached on pages four through I think 14 of the packet I don't if anyone has any questions on either the Revenue expenditure cash and Investments report
but I think uh just the regular quarter of the update and we'll obviously be getting into our budget discussions in in August here again as far as looking ahead to 2025 and I think this this sets the tone or at least the the groundwork for the initial discussion that everything seems to be tracking pretty
well in 2024 so so so with all the rain for the bills that just went out to the water are those trending substantially lower than we were anticipating for the second quarter I mean as far as and third quarter is usually the main obviously um quarter the highest you
know Revenue quarter for the water um usage so second quarter usually isn't I think it didn't it's not too much different than previous years because usually that's you know April May and June I know now that we're in July and we've actually had a couple 90 degree days or or close to you know people might be starting to think about you
water hopefully not watering yet you know it's stilling pretty wet but but we'll know more I guess with this the third quarter September billing right now so the water billing is pretty much it was last year pretty similar yeah if maybe slightly lower cuz some people last year you know I think might have
done a little watering in June or whatever but um it's not too far off of last year's you know base or whatever or year-to-year comparison so it seems like the insurance costs pretty much across the board are jumping pretty quickly U are you factoring that in for next year
a big increase next year trying yeah to build that in as far as you're looking at even yeah whether it's Health property workers comp all those of insurance yeah we'll definitely be looking up for the 2025 budget I mean one of the nice things we've had a pretty good uh you know you want to say
no no accidents really in the workplace for like workers confer you know some things we're doing what we can to mitigate those type of uh expenditures but some of it is just you Market driven that um in those type of costs you know whether it's inflationary Market driven are are continuing to go up so
you okay anything other questions or no thank thank you all right thank you um so next we move on to uh persons to be heard we have Carrie Meyer who is here um and uh you have questions on your
certificate of occupancy yes I do so um Carrie um Miss Myers I should say you have to state your name and address for the record and you'll have 3 minutes uh to address the council and we don't take any action tonight I so go ahead thank
you thank you uh my name is Carrie Meyer address is 9229 Moss Drive in the lovely city of Minista thank you for allowing me to speak so very simply we moved into our house on um the 24th of April 2021 a temporary certificate of
occupancy was issued on April 19th we still have a temporary certificate of occupancy the reason being that we have an outof compliance grade on either side of our house when we moved in there was nothing but dirt okay the Builder put in
in irrigation Mulch and sod and now we still have a temporary certificate of occupancy and I have had no response from the city which we started with um in January of 2022 um and moving forward I wanted to
reference the city ordinance so um 5.61 Assurance of completion and maintenance of improvements escrow deposits for lot improvements we have a $5,000 escrow on this lot all required lot improvements for which escro monies have been accepted by the planning department at
the time of issuance of certificate of occupancy will be installed with a period of 9 months which would end up being 22nd of January 2022 from the date of deposit in the event that the lot improvements have not been properly installed at the end of the time period
the planning department planning department will give two weeks written notice to the esro that should have happened on February 5th of 2022 requiring the eser to install the same and in the the event that the same are not installed properly the planning department we request the city council
to proceed with the work I began with this again 19th of May and both the city of Minnetrista and JMS and I'm sorry but that's who it is responded that they would either install no maintenance vegetation on the slopes they would lower the grade on both Corners which is what should have happened in the first
place or they would extend the already mulched areas apparently being unfamiliar with the laws of gravity the Mt simply slide down slope so we agreed to to the installation of no maintenance vegetation on the 23rd of May 2023 last email we received from either
the city of Minista or GMS was August of 2023 I began this again with Mr Olen on April 25th 2024 I submitted a bid since no bid was submitted quadriga who is now who GMS has become um countered on the
27th of June by saying nope that's too much money unsurprising since you have to remove the sod remove the irrigation remove the mulch so um I said that's fine please send a contractor out to do this I've had no response since then I sent a certified letter on the 28th of
June sent a final email requesting an alternate bid on the 5th of July two weeks notice was on Friday I've heard from neither the city of Minista nor quadrio so here I am before the city council to ask that this escrow at least be released using the bid that I have or apparently according to ordinance I
defer to you um the planning department who to my mind should have followed up on this to begin with because that's what the ordinance requires should put out a bit for this work okay um so maybe I'm going to refer this to Sarah because I think um I believe
there's been issues in your neighborhood with the same yeah just a couple um with the same Builder and um maybe I think another property owner somehow mediate remediated what Sarah what happened and how did
they fix this sure [Laughter] oh uh Madame mayor members of the council we had a similar issue with another property in this same neighborhood same Builder and um the
property owner did hire an attorney and um the attorney wanted the city to release the $5,000 escrow and um the way we handled that was I mean this money actually belongs to the Builder and so the city doesn't want to
just release it to someone else yeah so um they obtained a court order um and the city actually stipulated that if the court ordered the money be given to the property owner that the city would go along with it and release that to the property owner and so the city stipulated to that was not a part of the
proceeding and I think they were able to get that court order to get it released over to the property owner and and the city was able to follow suit and and take care of that and release it over the property on so the escrow is actually paid by the Builder and it's if
you will the Builder's money yes okay so not hearing the other side sorry um we really can't release it otherwise we might be liable is that accurate correct I mean he the Builder might say that you shouldn't have released it because they
did the work or that you know the work propy didn't do do the work correctly I mean there just could be the city would be right in the middle of the dispute okay I mean the other option would be the city could do the work and pay itself with the money um but I don't know if that would exceed the $55,000
and then you have the issue of who pays it well the city would pay for that and then it might be over 5,000 then the city's responsible for that and then also if what if the work isn't done correctly or propor doesn't like how that work was done and then all of a sudden now it's the city that's
responsible and I don't think the city wants to take on that unnecessary liability if it doesn't have to since this is a responsibility of the build the Builder okay so my question would be very simply that there seemed to have been some responsibility of the city
because they took the escro to begin with well I'm not going to um Miss Myers so my question is I mean it looks like I'm going to have to hire a lawyer just like my neighbors did yeah probably um if I may M Mar Council so the escro we took it was not for lot and prove it's
that the escrow we took as our standard policy and procedure for issuing temporary cosos what's being referenced here in city code is very specific to lot improvements at the time of issuing a permanent certificate of occupancy that's when we engage with the city
engineer and we come up with a dollar amount to determine what is left via lot improvements to be done and we then take that money uh from the the Builder and hold that in escrow to to hold them to that so um this we did we um do not not
have that situation here this is again back to our our standard temporary certificate of occupany is $5,000 it depends upon the time of the year but we're for our fee schedule um so I I I would say that um that situation here per City Cod is not at play in terms of
um a lot improvements in using that escro money in this situation so I think my final question would simply be I can't sell my house I have a temporary certificate you can see that I think to have I'm going to ask thank you um Miss Meer we're not we're not here to debate
with you we we understand that we understand you have a predicament I think the council needs to understand what the next steps are going to be for the city so I would like to ask that you please sit down and we're going to figure out what the council would like to direct staff to do so can we add it
to a work session so we can find out how to get them a certificate we we can work with our engineer um to come up with a solution in terms of what from this this the three to one slope on each side and as she mentioned
is what we've done before is we can come up with um non-maintainable uh surfaces there um you know we we can work with them and the engineer to get them a a permanent Co um it might not be to what exactly
they want it to look like but we can get it to a point we can work with the engineer get a permanent Co and if they were to want to sell their house so do you want to bring that back to a work session how do you or do you just want to work with the applicant and
the engineer to kind of figure that out where would you like to go and how long like can you work with the engineer and the applicant and then get back to us with an update or if you want to go to a work session we can you can present
options like what's what's the next step to keep it moving forward not to put you on the spot at all I tell you what that's correct this is what we're going to do you think about it okay and then talk with our city administrator who is
not here tonight and then maybe bring it back to council either next work session or the following work session and just give us an update and tell us what you think can be done or um what the next step should beity ADR yeah thank
you Miss Myer can you tell me how much the cost was that you submitted it obviously it's one bid that was $14,000 thank you so and obviously this is an issue between the Builder and the homeowner
and not the city I mean it's not a city's responsibility to fix the Builder's issue so um City yeah yeah so yeah okay thank you very much
and um and then um just keep we'll we'll let you know what we're going to do here sorry um we have two other people signed up but I've already spoken with you so one is on our consent agenda and the other is a um issue or we'll be talking
about the um the business items so with that um we will move on to consent agenda items and they are we have a through k a is approve our city council meeting minutes from June 17th 2024 B is approve our work session meeting minutes
from June 17th 2024 C is a resolution to approve claims D is a resolution to approve the election judge appointments for the 2024 primary and general election and you have at your desk the new list and then um I believe it's
every yes um you might have okay sorry it's everybody new in it's in it's in the folder but it's everybody that was there I think there were maybe one or two people that were on it that should not have been on it that did not sign up
um and then do you want me to read the names okay all right then uh the next is approve our setback variance at 8805 Indian Hill Road f is uh approve the establishing establishing a committee to
examine the formation of a fire district G is is approved license agreement with midco for material storage site H is a resolution to approve the task order 2 for geotechnical services for artl B did you want to pull that yeah I okay so
we're going to uh pull that one and what's to p b and which one the election One D oh okay so we'll do that and then approve joint Powers agreement for the Highway 7 safe road Zone Grant and J is approved the task order 12 reh well
number three and K is approve award award water main improvements in the Woodland Cove Edition and that really came back great so that was good so it's approving a b c when did K get added e hold on approve
setback variants we're doing that [Music] f um G we're not we're going to pull H approve joint Powers agreement approv task order and then award water main improvements that was on there um that
that came in like 300,000 under budget so I don't think we want to discuss that too much no I pulled the package on Thursday it wasn't on Thursdays it Fray morning all right do you want to pull it is there any okay just told me but fine I just with those um any any a motion to
approve those items so moved thank you Miss Lacy is there a second second thank you Mr vicory all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed motion passes on those items so you're good to go thank you and then um so the uh let's see
election judge Ann um yes um supposedly the council has to receive the information on what
parties um no yes uhuh yes we we reive okay yes so we receive we so we can know there's let's say there's 18 judges we can know that there's seven Republicans and nine or whatever 10 whatever it is
um Democrats we are not told and this is private information who the election judges what party they're affiliated with most okay okay the issue is that there's five that are no affiliation and that that could be and they they don't
have to they can say they independent or non-affiliated well how does that keep it even then because does not be even both sides represented the list that you see doesn't have to be even the precincts themselves have to be even and
that involves morning workers night workers all day workers head judges assistant judges so an on the back end puzzles each Precinct together based on your guys of the proof list which is 18 Republicans 16 Democrats five no
affiliation so with that and puzzle pieces together the freeing you could have a r head the assistant and then 2 R 2v there's an odd number you can have an imbalance but no more than that one
person can that make sense yeah that makes sense okay sounds good okay all right so then any other questions no okay um is there a motion to approve the election judges well it would be election City staff election officials
um and then the election judges absentee ballot board members as presented on on your list to move thank you is there a second second thank you uh Miss rkin made that second all those in favor signify with i i i
all those opposed motion passes 5 O so then we have the [Music] geothermal geot technical service is so I'm going to hand that over to miss fski is that okay or Gary or Gary
between the two of us I think we could probably answer questions okay um I can go first I have the questions not surprising um so when we had a the meeting in June um Lisa and Jasper thought it' be around 10 15,000 you said
it was going be 1 million it's um 60 which still seems high so can you explain why it's 60,00 000 do you want me to take a stop at that c yeah okay all right thank you so when Council typically sees geotechnical Services it's for Street Improvement projects
where the borans are about 20 ft deep and that's all we get um this is a lot more complex because one we have um deeper borings um because we're supporting a building and two there are a lot of other uh testing there's a lot of other testing that's being done on
these samples um based on um what what is proposed to be done on the site um we worked very closely with a2s to make sure that we got a scope that they were comfortable with that gave them the appropriate information for the design so it's sticker shock in the respect of
you're used to seeing geotechnical for road projects but now we're looking at a at a site um at a building Site geotechnical Services so what what you see in the in the breakdown um in the packet I think it's page 71 um you're
usually seeing you know a little bit of field services and and some labs and maybe a handful of lab whereas now we have quite a bit more um in the laboratory services as far as as testing goes for that because they need to they need to test the soil and make sure that
it can withhold the weight of a of a building which you don't typically get you don't do that with a street you just you know you look at the type of soil on it and Corrections and that sort of thing so um and that area was originally a hole I mean it was pretty deep through
there um so when I think the developer kind of looked at it and said hey it's going to be a park we got a place to get rid of Phil so we don't know what's in there for Phil I mean so that's part of the problem we're had to do some s borings we're hoping it's going to be a you know a good base in there but we may
end up having to put different footings in or something that's a lot more cost cuz we're have to drill down um am I irond to say there's probably 40 ft in there at least a fill at the deepest 30 for sure I mean they raised the manholes up and everything there that we have
through our Gravity Man there so I mean it is pretty deep in there so but un being out anybody hey no water treatment plant was going to go there so it's not on them you know they did what they did so but that's a big factor to figure out what's under there because we're looking
at putting in you know maybe a 500 600,000 gallon clearw so we have enough storage on site so pretty good size tank you know you don't anything moving so I mean we're going to have to have a lot of soil borings done there so unfortunately so do the soils when they
have to test um for the soil what's in it also to make sure that it doesn't uh corrode the concrete they will they'll look at all that I mean they'll test all that for acidity and that stuff but what they're looking for is support you know what's under there you know is it sand
based is it clay based you know and what Clay is it is it yellow clay black Clay is it black dirt you know what's just put in there so I mean that's going to be the the big determining factor of what footings are we going to have to put in are we going to drive some pilings here and there which I'm
assuming we probably will in some areas we'll have to do put some pilings down so um yeah it's it's a it's a big undertaking so okay the other water treatment plant out there did that have normal soil do they have any issues building in the Kings Point one I well
they had a little swampy area on the other side I know they did a lot of EX excavation on the what would be if looking at on the left side on the South Side there it's still really wet in that area but that is where the detention tank and stuff went so they were able to dig down and utilize that spot so it's
very wet in there I mean they can hardly mle in the back and stuff so but yeah there was excavation there too you know so they tried to I mean they really fit a lot into a little bitty sight there to try to make that work that's why it's so close to the road you know we tried to set it back farther at that time but it
is so tight in there it's there's not a lot of areas so right but the soil itself was fine the soil itself was good yeah there's not you know everything on there because everything was you know pretty much embedded new you know in there cuz the lines were already in for
the raw water mains that were already put in that was all embedded in sand coming up so that was all in place and in ready to go so most of it there the only thing I think that was the biggest Factor was getting the piping from there to the new tower had to be redone we had
to add some valves in there so all that got redone so we know know that's you know been all incased in sand too so does this include like the subs or or like a is this I guess yeah just on the proposal is this like for a braon Intertech and stuff too or is this just
wsb's work so it's wsb's work and it includes the geotechnical services that Abron Intertech would provide okay that's what I it's all the testing and all the results and the reports and I was just I had pulled up like from 2015 when we did the the water treatment plants in the South and the North we had
BR do the work technical just sort of looking at the comparable fees and obviously the costs are higher in 2024 than 2015 and one versus I was trying to see what did what was oh thought it was like 30 40,000 so it looks like Bron for the water treatment plans back in the
day was about 19,000 okay you know obviously you know N9 years ago or whatever and then I think you know se's fee was about 13,000 so I guess the proposal back then would have been the 30,000 doll range and some WEA 60 in the St
right I mean some probably in the ballpark yeah it would be so then this is going to take 30 days and then another 30 days so 60 days give or take what is this due to
delaying all of the building and planning of the treatment plant now and then I guess to that point why wasn't this brought up and put on agenda item back in April April or May or you know March yeah I wish Aaron was here to
speak about that we talked about that we're still going to be going through the design phase we're you know we're trying to you know looking at what we have what we're going to do the wells first and foremost once they get in then they'll really dive into it but we'll have our layout and our design set so what's underneath there then once we get
that you know then they can look at what's got to go where and you know they'll finish up with you know for substructure there but you know the interior the outside what the structure is what the design is how the layout's going to be what the size of the concrete um detention takes are going to be that'll all be set and then you know
they can be working on that right they'll be working on all that yep and then once they get the results back they'll know what they'll have to do for base work and dirt work so well what happens if this comes back and it's horrible we have to find a new site no we won't find a new site no then you'll
put pings you'll just put pilings in down to you know decent soil similar what they do to the with the water to the water tower didn't have very good so they Public Works garage they had to do that with the public the water tower too they put basically they put Rock pings down so I mean they'll you know they'll
Shore it up make it work I mean there's you know eventually they hit rock yeah you know like I say I mean it's just basically we're worrying about is that upper soil and and you know what they put in there and stuff you know what below once they get done they put all the stuff they dug out from my home and
that can tell you it's a whole bunch of clay yeah which is which is better than anything I mean at least it's you know if it's solid good compatible yeah you know they can work with that so Madame mayor if I can also give a a a little bit of the time the time frame for this so when we first started looking at the
fee um and bringing this to the council you know over a month ago um we were between a2s and WSB what we were the original scope of this proposal the fee was a2s was not happy with the fee and so we that's when we went and and did a
there were a lot of discussions back and forth to make sure that the scope was was appropriate so the scope was was shifted based on conversations between a2s and our geotechnical director um to make sure that not only are that they're
getting the right amount of information but not too much you know that that we weren't overestimating on based on that original proposal so as far as the conversation of you know is this waiting for the geotechnical is that going to delay the design and in in conversation
with the aets that they can start doing it's a parallel track they can do some of the design work and the conversation I had with them is if you know if the Drillers are out there and they see something that's a red flag that's when we need to know about it and so we'll certainly we'll certainly do that but
there's a concurrent process that can go on here the other part that they said that was critical was to do the survey work and so um we got some administrative um approvals that was Within the administrative approval for um uh for staff to provide and so we
went ahead and did those services to get a2s the information they needed to to to proceed with their design so we've been working with them to keep this on track as best possible but not presenting a proposal that was for geotechnical that was beyond what would be necessary for
the site after having those conversation so something was approved in the last 30 days just a survey the survey how much was that probably about we went to I need to it was within J it was within Jasper's um uh sign off uh sign
off it should have been under 10,000 I assume it was right I think it was nine somewhere in that neighborhood I I apologize I don't have that number off the top of my head that was one that was an item that we were looking at getting moving to move forward so that they could keep going that so
M okay all right and a2s did send this out to some other um firms yeah they did so they did um one of them I know was uh Team a but they were not certain they could get the
scope back in time obviously through some of the emails they sent it to you know and stuff so they did send it to other people but with the the time constraints was where where people were running where they were running into stuff um you know even broad InterTech
did the complete thing too and uh you know they were higher weren't they they were higher they're still doing the testing part but the other stuff was a little higher so um yeah I mean and honestly when the first one came back WSB was really high too they did go
through they sat down they went through they eliminated everything they didn't need out of it and brought it way down so um they did chop it up a little bit and got rid of the unnecessary stuff they didn't need that were they were duplicating so you know to do so the surveying was a little over 4K yeah that
was under five yeah that makes more sense I guess my only other question is why we waited so long to do this go back and forth with the A2 us about what specifically we want it mean we've been talking about this site for months and knew I would assume they
knew or someone should have known that we needed to test the site I I couldn't hear you what was that I mean why did we wait so long why wasn't why wasn't this brought up in February and March oh it's been brought up they know it's they know the fill is
bad I mean whe they know it I mean so um they don't know it's bad they know that there's still there I guess I don't know why um I think in the grand school things we're finally to the point where we needed this with the starting with the design so I mean the the design stuff just got
approved for that plant so now'll need you know to get this all Incorporated I think it's all part of that so I mean I don't I'm not too worried I think we'll have plenty of time to get everything done so but Gary don't they or maybe Allison don't they generally do these
kind of um at the same time oh yeah I mean and then like you said the design is is worked on but it's the structural supports that that you're kind of looking into at the same time and then you figure because you almost have to do the design first it's kind of chicken
before the egg before you can determine what the support is going to be well and we're size constraint there too so that's what we're looking at what can we fit in there how is it going to go what's it going to fit what are the size how deep are we going with our tanks and stuff like that so um you know we're
trying to make this footprint as small as possible yet as roomy as possible inside which sounds corny but if you walk through ours you trip over stuff we've kind of toured a few that were built uh one by SE one uh by Bolton and
mink uh two of them were um um a2s one thing we noticed there's a lot of nice room in there you can walk around you can maneuver and stuff without tripping over stuff so we're kind of looking at that too you know what are we going to do for that so um that's the part of this whole planning stage so once we
kind of look at what we're got and what we're going to need uh clear well tank size you know what are we going to do with that where's it going to go where's it going to line we need kind of know you know now you know okay here's where it is have that Geotech information hey now we're going to swing it over this way let's turn the building a little bit
set it here the building they show on the page you know all for when they're doing this pickle ball court it shows it there it's just a play Setter I mean you we could be swinging it 90° 180° can be moving it over 20 ft so you know it's uh
you know it'll all within by the time they get their information to them and they get um you know everything done and in they'll be far enough along I don't see an issue with it so I'm I'm liking what I'm seeing with the designs that they're coming up with we've already got
some layout for floor plans and stuff so right depending on the survey they're not they're not useless but they could be completely wrong so it just no will stay the same no the surve the footprint won't change cuz once that is it's just where is it going to go on that site mhm so so that's why they
needed the survey yes yeah right yeah the work they're doing now what we're looking at and what we're kind of determining will be in there so nothing's going to I mean that's the layout it's going to be plant tanks on both sides I mean the the the general layout is there
so okay well we want I agree like I said I brought that up months ago too it's a big fill site they you know start you know looking at it so they are but I guess point is I would have preferred if
it would have been looked at and done you know 90 days ago or at least brought before Council 90 plus dayso as long as it doesn't hold us up or hold us back that's then I'm okay but I agree we're going to have more problem with the DNR right now that's my major concern so I'm
not worried about this plan I'm worried about the DNR and getting stuff approved so okay with the wells them so it's it's okay it's not it's not an easy process so let's just put it that way they're being very difficult with us so it's uh
yeah this is the least of my concerns right now if we don't get Wells you might as well just plant grass so oh I'll be honest yeah so okay well now I have more questions going on with the DNR um test Wells monitoring Wells what
they want they're adding another one so obviously they didn't read their paperwork we they ad2 us sent in so they didn't we didn't we didn't realize you're going in the Jordan so do we have one in the Jordan our main one's going to be the Jord not
no I mean currently do we have one in the okay so we don't have they want us to do a test uh fourth monitoring well who do we talk to we are Joel RoR it's a battle so and
actually got some emails today where they want more information so we're trying to give our wall five and our wall four to them for monitoring walls and now they need to know what how they were constructed to see if it's even feasible now they're going to probably add they want another one in the TCW they want one now maybe in the Jordan
so yeah it's uh you know well and are they going to pay for it when is that going to be on a um update tell you what let's do this let's let's do this this a whole another let's get the geot
technical services coming up so and and maybe you can update us at a work at the next work session regarding the we'll know more here as this they're finally moving along here so don't Victoria's got the problems with every every city that's drilling well is having this
issue with so they don't want to they don't want water out of their oers so well okay so with that any other questions and if not do I have a motion to approve task order number two for the
geotechnical services for Outlaw B in Woodland Cove 11th so mov thank you Miss rkin is there a second second thank you Miss McGregor any further questions please hope n no just kidding any further
it's okay it's okay um all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed motion passes by V and I believe we've done all the consent agenda items so uh we don't have any public hearings so we'll move on to business items and our
one and only business item is a discussion of ordinance number 490 um doing an interim use in the staged development District so I'm going to hand it over to David yeah thank you mayor and Council um as stated we did re receive a land
use request to amend city code to allow for interm uses in the stage development District um currently we do not allow interm uses in those districts they are right now currently only allowed in the egg and the Egg preserve District um the
applicant uh the reason for this request is they um wish to operate a baseball and softball training facility for the property that they own in Minista at 6900 County Road 110 West and as I said that property is Zone stage development District um currently how the property
is set up and given what they're proposing to use the site for um it does not fall under a permitted or conditionally permitted use in that stage development District so uh staff suggested to the uh uh Property Owners to ask for this code text amendment to
allow for that stage uh to allow for that interm use in the stage development District um as the council is aware interm uses run with the owner of the property and a conditional use permit runs with the property itself um so we
certainly know and have talked here in recently about the uh differences between conditional uses and interm uses um so as you can see it does make some sense to allow for interm uses in the stage development District because the idea with that district is that at some
point in the future it will develop to it's stage development so it probably makes more sense to have interm uses than it does to have conditional use uses in that District so it certainly seems reasonable and and and makes sense um from that aspect given the the zoning
classification um so this application was made it did go to our Planning Commission at their June 24th meeting uh they did hold a a public hearing for this request there was no one present to make any comments and they did ultimately recommend approv with a 40
vote uh unanimous vote to recommend approval of moving forward with this code text Amendment um just should should note that this is just State stage one of this process so if this this is successful tonight if the council approves this the next steps for
the applicants then would be to go ahead and apply for that interm use we'd hold then a public hearing with the Planning Commission specific to their request for their uh indoor softball and baseball practice facility uh they would hold that hearing make a recommendation to council and then you Council ultimately
would be able to approve or deny that interm use permit so that is not what's on the table tonight tonight it's just the ordinance and the code text amendment to allow for that uh that that very uh somewhat simple change to the stage development districts so most of
the stage development districts have like three three plus acres they're usually three to five or even some 10 acre parcel or more so okay questions no okay and are we in favor
yes okay so is there a motion then to approve hold on um ordinance number 490 um in uh to change it allowing interim uses in the stage development district is there a motion for that so
move so move thank you U Miss mcgreger is our second second thank you Miss Lacy all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed and then next um I need a motion to authorize publication of ordinance number 490 by title and summary thank you Miss refen thank you
Miss Lacy all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed motion passes so I didn't have you speak because probably wouldn't help so all right thank you so you're good to go for your next phase um all right with
that we'll move on to staff reports I'll start with Ally yeah y so fente uh voting is underway for the primary election direct balloting actually begins on July 26th candidate filing starts July 30th and ends August
13th at 5:00 p pm. and then obviously election is under just real quick um what our sign um campaign sign what is the timing on that when can people put out campaign signs for local elections it's a great
question that I will have ask you okay no I I just you've already seen signs out for um house and and so on and I just just I was thinking or I thought that you couldn't put campaign signs out you could only do it 10 days prior to the
election but is it for I think back to meeting yeah that's fine I'm just I'm sure I'm sure they are legal I'm not saying that I was just curious if there was a difference between local elections and
and uh State elections and federal elections so yeah okay thank you anything else Jasper should be back next meeting I believe um okay do we need planning there is no
Planning Commission meeting this month okay no planning and no Parks I believe correct okay hey 46 days before the state primary in state general election year until 10 days after oh 10 days after okay maybe that's where I have the 10 days Municipal ordinances May
regulate the size in the number but I don't believe we have any orces that are yeah I think I think that's correct yeah y all right okay there yeah so you don't have to get back back to us all
right um so any other staff reports like I said I think Jasper will be back with us at our August is it 5th meting meeting a yep um so any I'll start with Miss Lacy reports oh well I got to go to
the um Pioneer Sarah Pioneer Sarah Creek Watershed meeting um thanks to Peter um updating me on what we needed to do we passed the um uh important thing that we needed we needed I think $20,000 to go forward and and work on
stabilizing the Kingswood Channel ravine so yay to that and then I was at also the Planning Commission where I got to meet the lovely couple that wants to do the baseball training facility and obviously the Planning Commission liked that idea
so that was really it we've started painting the gillesby center yeah which looks really different and wonderful um and the fundraising efforts are going extremely well so good um in changing it
to again Community Center not a senior sener and that's it all right very good I don't have anything okay I don't have anything um Ann and I attended the Personnel committee meeting after the last meeting uh we discussed a few new
positions and I'm assuming that will be brought up with budget discussions those um and then Lisa and I have attended two of the fire district meetings and then we have our next one on the 23rd um
February the 23rd yes okay yes 7 A.M I know yeah that's why I forgot about it just kidding yeah um we had representatives from the Fire Marshall service there um and we formally asked for their assistance with the process and so they're walking us through step
by step yeah very slowly and we've kind of encouraged them to move a little faster that's why my update is so short compared to my usual one I have nothing new to report other than we formally asked for their assistance so you can guess what that's like for
me and Lisa um we did talk to the Chief and we kind of implied that we would like this to move along a little bit faster we don't need to regurgitate everything all the time I mean just come on we talked about this now next step now next step
so we'll see what we can do um Jasper and Kathleen and I are all on the same page there so so we're definitely have on weing get slowly um so uh yeah so uh I attended that meeting of those meetings of course and
then um also the um annual LMC conference it was very interesting and um lots of lots of networking lots of people um in talking to other Mayors too so um getting different ideas and and yeah that's not always a good thing
right I would come back from these conferences and staff would say don't tell us don't tell us but um no good stuff and I also um ran into um Ellers Todd or Todd Hagen Todd Hagen talked to
him a little bit about our our financial situation and that kind of thing so there's one thing I was going to ask you so what what is it called I think I um the bonds that you can float um up to 10 million you can do up to 10 million they're um Bank qualified or whatever no
no no no they're called um I I text I texted Jasper as soon as I talked to Todd about it because I thought if we don't do 10 million worth of bonds this year we could do those type of bonds and you get money for them and it's
no it's no um risk to ask oh if we're not going to use our 10 million in a year you can do you can do a um yeah I know um the terms something in my mind right now but basically you can almost uh it's like you basically our thank you thank
you thank you Sarah a conduit fond good job and so anyhow i' I'd really like to bring back some information on that as soon as possible because I know we're not going to do 10 million in bonding this year well I think we'll need we'll be talking with councils about I mean we
know we have the the well projects I know I know I know the timelines you know what may of 20 2025 they have to have it done and then we've got the the water main and we might have an equipment CER I mean there could be some things that probably not the full 10 million but there could be some things that we still could be bonding for later
in the latter half of this year that's fine but um so you can you don't you don't have to do the full 10 million in conduit bonds you can do 5 million or you can do six million but what I'm saying is you can't bond if you already bond for let's say 5 million you can't bond for the 10 million you can bond for
10 million of conduit bonds um total but if you already have 5 million that you're bonding for for your projects then you can only bond for five million so I want to talk about that because we get money for those we get a little bit of a almost just a premium fee or
something so we haven't really talked about that or doing that here before I know some cities have where there'll be like a some you have it's we'll talk about it at a work session but basically people buy the b or bu usually Builders people
that are doing big projects will buy those bonds from you and so but there's no there's really no risk to the city it's very very low risk to the city or no risk I think yeah they're basically using you as a conduit so all right um I'm sure Brian
agrees with you Brian's looking at you funny I mean I think it's fine I mean there's definitely probably some administrative work and so it's a more is it worth it for get what you know can you get a percent or a quarter of a percent probably a quarter percent I shouldn't say a full percent but so you
know can you get 20 30,000 50,000 for a you know depending on if it's up to you know 5 million or something um yeah I want to hear more about it and look and talk to just want to find get more information on it good so what the next work session we good I guess or one of yeah if you could I mean because if
we're going to do it then we want to kind of get on the it means August yeah yeah all right when it depends what projects are out there and obviously sometimes it's going to be does the city want to be a part of this project you know you know there can be variables whatever well and maybe Sarah can help
you bring back that information to I have it all you have it all I know thank you I figured you did oh yeah I know a lot of cities do it so all right um that's all I have for right now I won't bring back any more information um so with that um we can be
adjourned if there is a motion so Mo thank you Miss rkin is there a second second thank you Miss MRE McGregor going to say miss an miss an all right all those in favor signify with that I I all those oppos
motion passes by V we are adjourned areed ass resolution Part: 2
okay it's 6 o'clock we do have another um discussion prior to the dog barking so we'll get started okay so then um she'll join us I'm so this is uh the regular work session meeting for July 15th for the
city of Minnetrista um present this evening myself Lisa Wayan the mayor and council president are Kathleen rkin an McGregor Peter vicory Claudia Lacy and director do I to have to list
everybody okay Ali paulus Brian Grim yeah then David AEL and then uh chief of police um Paul FSE so and then also uh shortly uh Sarah sansal will be here she's on her way in the door right now
so we're going to start out with the public uh notice mealing distance discussion I'll hand that over to David yeah um thank you mayor memb a council um I it's my understanding that this got brought up as a result of the Farm
Winery request um when we went through that conditional use permit process and the public hearing uh radius that was sent out um I'll certainly correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there was two property owners that expressed concern
to a couple council members about that notice not being large enough um as you may call we ended up postponing one uh continuing a public hearing and at the direction of the Planning Commission we did extend our notice from 500t to 1,000
ft for that specific Farm Winery request I will add however that th000 ft did not capture the two that that I believe again correct to those who were had the discussions um I um I think the two that were expressing concerned would not have
been included in that foot radius they did not get the the notice um for that so uh like I said I it was my understanding that a couple council members requested that we have a discussion about um what what is the correct notice uh for these types of
things standard uh State Statute is 500 ft that's what we follow for conditional use permits and and variances um and standard things like that um I do have a coule two different um scenarios if if you will that I can show you too that we
we ran um showing what what that might look like with if you were to extend distances um with public hearing notices like how many different Parcels that that would include um for you so if you wanted to look at that um here's just two two
addresses that we grabbed in the egg district 5185 North arm drive you can see at 500 ft you get 17 Parcels at 1,000 ft you get 40 1,500 ft you get 69 and then at 2,000 ft you get the
115 another example U maybe a little bit larger Parcels but they still are zoned egged is 76 7760 counter 26 500 ft you have 8,000 ft you have 13 Parcels 1,500 you get 25 parcels and then at 2,000 ft
you get 29 so you can see there there's there's quite a difference you know in terms of the you know the numbers and what you might pick up I do have Maps if you you know want to look at at that but generally speaking this like I said this kind of in the center of the city um egg
Zone Parcels that we just grab to see what what that would look like number number wise um for that so like I said at at uh um per the result of the Farm Winery bring this forward for discussion to see what if anything the uh Council
wants to do in terms of uh public heing notice radius uh for different types of L use items so um I had heard from a number of people at at the so I was at the first meeting anyhow from the first meeting that were at the meeting and
even others that weren't that they didn't think that the 500 ft and you can tell by the numbers that you pulled up you get like eight people or you get five people or six people the difference is if you have a a developed area you're
going to get those 40 people if you but out in the rural area you're not you're going to get those 8 to 10 so that's why the then and the reason they extended that um actually the applicant requested
to have the application put on postponed and brought back or whatever so it wasn't the residents that were complaining about not being noticed it was because the applicant requested having having the um public hearing um continued so just just
kind of for that but you know I I don't I don't think it would hurt to go further I mean would there be you might get more people involved but this is this is the first time this has come up I mean this is this is the
first time it's come up I mean they did figure it out uh you know I mean if you want the process worked you did to that point I mean it's noticed it's in the paper it's on the meeting agendas for the Planning Commission for the council meetings there's there's plenty of ways
out there a to look for 5 seconds and see if anything's happening near them I mean at some point the onus is on people to find out if anything is happening I don't think we necessarily need to send notices to everyone within 1500 ft of these properties but it's not a big deal
because as you can see 26 or even 40 it's not a big deal you have you have to send notices to let's say 10 anyway to send out a few more doesn't inste a 70 that's that's a lot of you could do 15
17 to 40 no 1500 this says 1500 oh you want to go to 1500 I no I'm just saying like that's what's in here but that's I mean that's a lot more people that's a lot of more notices that's a lot more postage that's a lot of more calls that staff might get that they don't necessarily need to handle but I I think
I think even the the people that were complaining there there were people that said we didn't get a notice and we're neighbors but even going to a thousand it wouldn't have affected them and would it have affected them if you went to 1500 I just think 500's not quite enough
but a th000 is kind of nice I I don't want to open up a can of worms we don't want to but I mean not that I want to sneak things by our residents but I think a thousand seems fair if you're going to do something on your property just it's your
property can can there be different areas where you have 500 exactly that's what we're talking yes that's what I was going to say right but then if we do that then you're going to have res go well I didn't know my property was zoned this way they got notices 1500 ft we
didn't get most people know whether they're in the rural area or in the egg area most people know that that seems like a good comprise I'm not talking about in the developed areas that you have to do a th000 ft right but then when someone in the development does something that somebody doesn't like and they don't get
notice then they're be like well in this area you send out, 1500 ft why do you only send out this our I don't think that'll happen though because in that area you're going to cover probably 40 people on 500 ft think about it a 500t
radius um we're not talking we're talking radius in a developed area you're going to be hitting at least 40 if not more people right but what about the 41st that's at 525 he doesn't get it now their neighbors are talking about like well I
didn't get one why in this part of town is it this distance that's a good point and the other thing is in the developed areas people are closer together and neighbors talk in the rural area my neighbors are 400 ft away from me I don't talk to them very often I don't
have a fence where I go over and have a cup of coffee you know it's it's different it's a whole different when we're up at the lake our neighbors are right next door we talk to them all the time at home we don't talk to our neighbors very often we don't see them
whereas in the developed area if Joe gets one but Susie doesn't because she's outside that 500 Joe probably will tell Susie hey did you get this notice no I'm not in the 500 ft and the word gets out the other thing keep in mind the Laker
is not going to be free and a lot of people aren't going to take the subscription so that Avenue is probably going to be going away very shortly in terms of notifying so the only way people are going to be notified is that they take it upon themselves every
single two weeks two three times a month go on the website and look at the agenda that's that seems reasonable it takes seconds to look through it we email them correctly they can sign up and get the email right to their email of what's on the
agenda well look that's not our fault but what's the what's the draw back what's the drawback to itcl I I look at it being more inclusive yeah what what would it cost between 17
versus is going up again doll I guess point of clarification is this just for Farm wineries or are we doing this for everything for conditional everything it would be everything in in those areas we're not going to do that I think conditional use permits my my my feeling
is conditional use permits because that's where you get not so someone building a shed that's bigger than a th000 square ft is a conditional use permit right variances I don't think that that is going to be a huge issue because that
only might affect the immediate properties but I my this is how I'm thinking conditional use permit could affect I mean obviously not sh what about a comprehensive plan amendment that so y those those I think have to go
out further don't they no um everything is 500 right now 500 um it's just for puds we did extend that to a 1500 for for a PUD we for a rezoning to a plan unit development that's 15 yep mhm that's
already like that yep okay David how many um residents would uh say uh in a developed area would we send letters to and 500 ft uh you know on average is it in that same range as
yeah I mean you know it's going to be I guess I don't know it's been I'd have to run a number for you you don't generally have cups for developed areas do you yeah I suppose that's I just curious if it's a similar amount to say a th000
foot notice or in a rural area yeah I can you know if you want to talk yourself let me see if I can I mean I it's not a huge cost um do the numbers what is the cost difference between sending out 20
versus 100 or 70 I mean we're talking 50 at 55 cents you're talking $25 $30 aren't stamps like 70 cents starting like this week so it's a $40 right but it's going to keep going up it's not going to get cheaper but we're talking
$70 versus $20 so we're talking a you know a very small amount in order to inform our residents that's that's how I view it you know here's what's happening in your neighborhood um if you're interested
here's the issues or here's the time here's the date here's the place um I just grabbed a one in hun Crest at 500 ft and there's 58 Parcels M it seems like the th f is a reasonable
one uh where you catch people that are directly impacted but they're not so far away that they're just you know bringing up an issue because they read about it you that seems like a good that's what we want to head off that's what we don't want to have happen yeah we don't want
everybody to give their input on it well you know quite ways away you have enough people somebody will find fault with something and it just gets out of hand so yeah but I guess for the agricultural aspect I can the compromise is fine I
think that makes sense agre so you're saying a thousand for the agricultural thing not for the not for the develop no not the developed areas but and it'd be about it'd be actually still less than the developed
areas we don't have a lot of cops anyway I mean how many cops do we get a year maybe three or four yeah you know it'll vary but yeah in in that area right so a th000 ft in the egg and egg
preserve for just CS yeah I don't think we need to do it for variances right but there's also comprehensive plan Amendment rezoning subdivision and other comprehensive plan Amendment isn't that already 15 ft500
rezoning um rezoning would be 5 still it's a 500 and we got in an adjacent communities for a comp plan Amendment comp plan Amendment and comp plans are a little different but if you do a rezone yeah that should probably at
least be a th000 but that how how often have we done a rezone not very y not very I mean I I can't remember when we've done a rezone well we take you know generally speaking we'll take care of them every time we do our comp plan you know is when we're doing it so
it normally I mean the most common thing would be a rezone to a PUD for a development and there there just kicks in the 1500 okay that's and when we and when we do a comp plan Amendment there's all kinds of public I mean there's more noticing though um isn't it
required for a comp plan Amendment it go well we yeah with outside agencies especially and neighboring communities yeah correct okay so comp plan Amendment you're saying is only 500 ft
yeah it probably would hardly ever involve the egg or egg preserve District but then I think it should also be the Thousand I mean it it's never come up before
but it seems like consistency would be better what do you think it's up to you I think I think it worked every change made they're hoping that you know they're they're finding anything they could to point at the city
and that was one of the things that stuck on the wall how long it's a 500 in Forever almost or like I said but we don't have we don't have very many cups in in the egg and egg preserve District that's you know well if if it would have
been a cup for shed over a th000 square ft there wouldn't have been a concern it's it's what it was for sure and well we had the same issue um with the um the house the um what it and people were complaining that they
didn't get noticed and and so on so I mean we it's come up a couple times but again I I agree is that it just twice that you can remember twice in how many years a lot 15 but that's I'm saying it doesn't
matter well but it matters for staff because now they have to check which which um distance it is and how much they have to send it out if it's just for the conditional use pernament then when they do the variances it's only 500 Fe like you're you're adding then do a00 for everything well I'm just saying like
no matter what we do we're adding more on staff's plate but it's to make our residents happy twice in plus years people have complained about it like I'm just saying like because they didn't get a notice yeah but I guess it's back to what's
like what is it about though again back to would they be concerned if it was a shed over th000 sare ft orage might you don't know so what about changing the sounds like in my assumption is it's the Farm Winery was the issue right that was
the problem the thing an idea of something you could do is change that from a conditional use permit to an interm use permit which an interm use permit requires 1,500 ft um that's an option that's the one
specific use that was the issue I know we have already we just went through and issued that cup but that's not a bad idea good idea I mean that makes more sense a good idea versus changing it for everything so anything from and I mean that's kind of what the residents wanted you know was an interm versus a
conditional use but it was we're in mid game it wasn't a good time right you can't you can't change it do that at that point but I mean I guess that's what I'm more focused on is that seemed to be the problem was that particular use and everyone kind of wanted to do an
interm use anyway so maybe anything that comes in the future would be an iup and not a cup and we're going to have that question come up on in a regular meeting too for an IOP y yep okay so it would make more sense to change the farm Riner
to an iup and that already has a 1500 and then we don't have to change this ordinance specifically correct correct that seems much corrected cuz they're only allowed in the egg and egg preserved districts and all we got to do is change them from a c to an [Laughter]
eye David why didn't you say this 20 minutes go really smart very good you go there you go had to ask specifically the right question that David are there but are
there any situation that's why we have disc that's why we have discussions it's very good is that well are there any situations where that wouldn't work I'm just thinking about I became aware of this a long time ago when the school district wanted to build a bus bar next to my house which I you
know didn't really think that was a good use of the land but um anyway are there situations like that that say changing to an eye wouldn't cover just so I think what you're asking is what else in is a owed as a cup in
certain zoning districts that maybe should be only iups that's right that's much worse than thank you well um it just be back to build you know the building sizes that probably what triggered that was it was over a th000
square feet is my assumption and they probably I'm assuming they needed a cup that was Wild guy yeah um but see buildings you wouldn't want to do as an iup you would do c because you wouldn't want to say well in
10 years you have to tear it down you know what I'm saying so so are there situations like that then we wouldn't be covering them by uh just going with what we're proposing but there might be other instances okay here's another one what
about dog kennels those maybe should be iups yeah because they are they are conditionally used they are cups yeah maybe look over the list and see what you can what you would think would be kind of a trigger that would say it
should be an iup versus a cup and it most of the time it's because of the hor Stables what are the both storage ones those are cups Cups M well we don't actually I mean the boat
storage ones that we have are legal non you know they're legal non-conforming uses and none of them actually have a cup have have cups they've been there one's got one cuz you made him put up the
bar oh yeah we we gave him yes corre he'd be the only he'd be the one that has one yes but maybe like maybe that would be a different things that are going to be um when noise or traffic or maybe those
should be iups versus CS yeah it seems like that would be why people would complain if you had a bunch of traffic to or any of these other things we're talking about and then if it's an IOP then it
has to be 1500 ft anyway correct okay all right are we okay happy with that does that make sense to you yeah yeah okay okay all right okay all right all right now we're moving on to dog barking all right Sarah or or who wants
to take this Paul Madam mayor council I'll be happy to get it started here and if it gets technical I'll hand it over to Sarah so uh I think you're aware that the uh this whole process has been going on for months and
uh we did get some conclusion um so basically the dog owner was found guilty of on five of these seven citations um and so what that does is it triggers a a uh try to stay back from this
it triggers a a process where because there were several violations in a short period of time that met the criteria to declare that property or those dogs as a public nuisance um and so there's been some discussion about notifying the dog owner
of that um the letter has been drafted um by our City attorney um it's been printed signed by me it's ready to go out but we didn't want to do anything until after this discussion tonight so um at this point um that matter is
resolved if there continues to be violations we will continue to handle it by issuing citations for each uh credible offense um and then secondary to that would be because they're going to be notified that this is now a public
nuisance that kind of starts the Civil process for the city if uh we continue to get complaints there then the city would have another Avenue uh to uh explore to aate to aate correct so we and we
don't have to um issue more tickets in order to Abate the current dogs no no that would be the criminal side and then this is the Civil side the nuisance piece so so we could send them a letter saying your dogs have been deemed a nuisance so if we hear any more
complaints we will remove them that's essentially what the letter say the say so it's signed it's sitting on my desk it's ready to be sent certified mail but we didn't want to do that before we had this discussion tonight that doesn't mean the city has to do that it's just by notifying them that it's declar it a
nuisance uh it gives the city the option if they want to do that if it continues to be a problem okay and then we'll bring it back before we take any action have further discussion and see how you feel about that because that would involve um you know there's some other steps to that that we've never gone to
this point before at least not in my time here which is a couple of years so um this is pretty rare that something would get to this level uh involving an animal but well it's pretty rare that they don't comply just yeah have you been getting more complaints while the
trial has been going on too I think there's been a maybe a couple but uh it has definitely changed or or slowed um not to the extent that it was so they were just piling up to the point where seven citations were issued um there
were more than probably likely much more than seven complaints but those were the ones that we were able to go in very ver ify and then issue citations um so this letter is very clear about uh what the intent of the city is um and then if the city choose
if we continue to have a problem then we'll have this discussion and then we'll decide if uh we get a search work based on that and then we can go on the property and impound the dogs the question then will become longterm what do we do if they don't comply what's the
next step after that um so that was my my question I'm sorry um so let's say we Abate those dogs and they get new dogs and those dogs bark can we Abate those dogs or only the dogs that were there first I believe it
only applies to this situation is my understanding so if they went and got entirely new dogs we'd start this whole process all over again well if I may uh I got an earful this weekend uh from the neighbor that uh there uh people in
question just R in uh truckloads of chickens and boosters and the whole time I was uh uh talking to the resident uh you could hear the roosters in the background and you said that they Crow at night and early in the
morning and all day get those complaints we're getting them all right so this isn't a theoretical question it sounds like uh the the neighbors are you know the r and so so we may be revisiting
this but not with and do does this I read the ordinance it sounds like it does apply to any kind of animal that pretty much covered anything that I don't think you can use the the dog incidents against the roosters you have to right start sighting the you
know the roosters and then once you get to the three times in the three month period or whatever it is then we can declare them a nuisance so the neighbors have to speak up yeah yeah we have to document those okay complaints it's a little different process because we have a very specific ordinance that we can
site under for marking dog but um nonetheless we would document it and we would be able to eventually declare that inance as well although I I believe that because a dog is a domestic animal it's a little easier in court to make the argument that they need to control the
animal and keep it quiet right um it's a little bit more difficult the further outside of that domestic animal you get because they're going to try and make the argument that these are Farm animalss mhm um you know and chickens are not really loud but roosters can be very loud and clearly they are because I've heard some voicemails with them in
the back it's loud I have a recording they sent me I do you have one yeah you really have a recording oh yeah share it with you if you want
um then does the uh uh ordinance is that City wide or is it like the rural areas more yes the short answer is yes that's Citywide but again it depends on when
you get to court the argument is a much stronger one if you're in a residen or city lot in the development where I think the expectation of not allowing that kind of noise ongoing is is an easy argument to make the further outside you
get the harder that argument is to make uh especially when you you get in front of a judge so it's not cut and dried as cut and dried as as we would like but what's their address again I'm sorry what's the address again the address uh I do not
see if I have that do you know it it's West West Branch Ro I don't have the numbers in front of me I want to say it's 77 I don't know some I apologize I don't have that in
front of me yeah I mean there's and you know the thing is is well and then this is another issue and I forwarded the email to Paul and Jasper too with the um the noise
regarding um dirt bikes and four-wheelers and that's come up again it's weird it's ugly head again and so um the same property on the same property yeah they're basically summing their noses at the city and at The
Neighbor Next Door saying we are going to do whatever we want and to heck with you so um that's going to be coming up too for a discussion I'll talk with Paul and Jasper first and see where we want to go with that
but um just for reference the address is 6501 West branchford 651 West Branch West Branch and and I know it seems weird but and if you live out in the country you
you realize this sound travels further than you think oh no that happens around the lake too I can hear what's happening other side the lake even on it like yeah I mean this is country but it's not it's not that far up there well the neighbor
houses are right by the property line and the animal pin are right behind their fence they're very close Madam mayor and Council I think I just want to add that there we can you turn yours off yeah he's pushing right
now I'm not going to touch that for um I think the issue here is these folks you go Ally yeah I can talk enough I think they can hear me but we can hear you in this
particular case uh I think these folks are trying to make this into a working farm to prove their point they're not doing this out of necessity so that's the difference this isn't can you just turn can you turn it off Connect they're all connected maybe
just you know for we're almost done here can you turn it off and then during we'll take a break and and then fix it hopefully for the yeah so anyway to my point I I think this situation is very clearly they're bringing AR they the very beginning of
this in this is an is they're just going to right they have an active Farm there well they had a couple of dogs I think some sheep
and some miscellaneous app they have a bunch of chicken I mean they only have three acres it's not like it's a farm was that right I think it's only three acres isn't it five 5 just over five acres and
I believe that unfortunately Sarah and any I mean this is so frustrating because we took them to they they fought it in court they basically were proven guilty all they have to do is pay a $680
fine and then they go on their Merry Old way and they continue to do be be terrible neighbors I mean any recourse the city can do can we give them our legal fees like well that's they said they were going to come after
the city to pay all their legal fees well they lost I don't I know but have they won yeah can we do the can we do the same thing no criminal prosecution civil how about civil civil weend can we
civil um usually you don't get attorneys fees unless you specifically agree pay the attorney contract say whoever aute this contract that loser they'll pay the other side of the attorne fees and we actually usually discourage that because
our fees are so low that if the city had to pay the other side of the attorne fees it would be paying really high so yeah TR are not well I do still want to look at that fee schedule that we talked about
before yeah I mean I just don't think this would be the test case for that unless a lot of leg create bad but can they have a working farm on that property with the size of their
property 5 acres is that do they need need a c is um Farm activities are allowed yeah Farm yeah animals farm animals I mean the only thing that um if they do horses they'd run into the we have they need so much land for passionable acreage but we
don't that's just for horses not sheep or so it doesn't matter if they have sheep and goats or anything like that so we should look at that orance and add land requirements for chickens roosters sheep and other things I mean that
doesn't seem like a big enough property to do that on people are trying to do it in your neighborhood [Laughter]
yeah well do I mean that might be more reason no you x amount of AC I mean generally they most people most most people would say 5 acres is enough to have chicken you know yeah I think so too but so
you'd have to maybe you'd have to say if you have you have to have more than five acres or you have to have five acres but you can only have X number of chickens you know what I'm saying yeah I mean maybe I'd have to limit the number
because otherwise they could do a a a how do you say hundreds of chickens roosters which I believe is more of the issue yeah right they're the some of them now can I might be wrong but Sarah do you know some ordinances in
some cities say you can have chickens but not roosters corre that's like in know that's in a more residential or maybe you see you can have X number of chickens and only one rooster yeah you know you could limit
the number of roosters maybe that would help do I mean I'm just picturing a property that continues to get more and more farm animals without a hsees like it just becomes a huge nuisance and I mean the
the property down here already has things that break free frequently [Laughter] so well staff what do you think Paul I mean you guys have to deal
with the nuisance and with the calls do you see you think it would be worth looking into some of our ordinances in terms of limitating limiting certain things well I think you know it's probably more of a
legal question but even if we were to change the think why not don't know um I mean I think when I mean I guess they make legal argument that
this legal at one point that's a zoning matter and I don't know if it's not part of our zoning ordinance I don't know if they can make that argument but I don't know sounds like the neighbors will take pictures for us oh yeah for a public
safety perspective I think it's this isn't a widespread issue I'm more focused on what can we do to get through this property are being a horrible yeah this isn't just one person calling about and you're making matters so much worse
I mean pretty soon they could have a new place a larger place they paying to fight this ridiculous man I don't know obviously what we've said so far is not getting true I'm hoping the letter will help but
my guess they tested everything to me so they issues well I think for tonight's discussion we agree you should send that doesn't B the city to do makes that necessary notification so the city has options should the problem
continue discussions okay and then is there anything else you want to bring back regarding this chicken issue or rooster issue that's relatively new so we don't have really any yet okay so maybe once
we I assume that neighbors will start call usly okay callone us okay well then if you talk to the neighbors they have to speak up I would think in just knowing the
rural area and what the calls we get that if you start messing with the animal numbers that you're going to ruffle more feathers per se than you might want to given you got just one situation here cuz most people do comply you know and they move out here for that and they're on larger parcels and it's
not an issue and that's what they want you know so they're good neighbors and we're not right right okay so then we'll go down the nuisance path with the dogs and then we'll go down the nuisance path with the chicken need be but there's but there's no teeth in any of this that
they just keep becoming a nuisance they just them and you know eventually you can take them and then I don't you can actually take can take ownership of the animals we might have a petting
Su a three strike Ru or something okay all right well it's too so I think you have your marching so we will um adjourn for now so that we can take a break so we can fix the hopefully
fix this um with that is there a motion to adjourn move thank you second second that c first all those in favor signify with El opposed motion passes by both