start this. >> All right. So, um I'll just say I and you say I and then your names. Okay. So, I >> Sarah Hussein. >> I Trisha Taylor solemnly swear to support the Constitution of the United States. You slely swear to support the
Constitution of the United States. the constitution of the state of Minnesota. >> The constitution of the state of Minnesota to discharge faithfully and to discharge faithfully the duties of the office of the duties of the office
commissioner of the city of Minnesota and ability to help. All right. And we'll have these for you later or maybe next time for it. >> It's your official. >> Next item would be approval of the
agenda. Do we have that put up on the screen? >> Motion to approve the agenda. Moved >> and second. All in favor? >> I carried. Then item B, electing a chair for
and vice chair for 2026 volunteer who would like to move into a powerful role. >> Well, I think >> we don't know where he's at. He's coming tonight. He may want to continue as chair. >> Yeah. I move that
we move this to the next public hearing for the next meeting. >> You can. Yeah. I make a motion that we move this to the next >> move and second we move the election of the officers to the next meeting February. All in favor?
>> I oppose. Okay. Passes approval. >> All right. Approval. >> Now approval minutes. You do the agenda. >> You already agenda. >> That's the first agenda.
>> We already voted on. Yeah, you did vote on it. >> Yeah, you took care of that, >> Mark. November 24th. Make a second. >> All in favor? >> I not going. >> No, no, you can go to 2 a.m. Yeah. >> All right. So the first item on the on
the agenda would be a public hearing on a variance for the Conor and Car Swenson property street setback variance to reduce required setback and I'll let Nick outline in more detail for us. >> Yes. Uh thank you chair uh members of
the commission. Uh the first public hearing on your agenda is a variance request. Um it is for uh street side setback. Um the required setback's 90 ft. Um the applicant is proposing to be at 52.7 ft. Um this is to accommodate uh
an addition on the house of the already non-conforming structure. It's already at the 50some foot from the street side. Um the addition will um allow them to create a more functional living room which the current structure does not have. Uh it's an original 1900s
farmhouse. Um a little bit of a different style um than current architecture. So they're looking to to add on and create a functional living room. Um in your in your uh staff report um I did outline the variance criteria for which
to consider um the variance against and based on the information provided by the applicant. Um we do feel um that this satisfies those criteria. Um so you can read those in more detail. If you have questions feel free to uh uh ask me. Um
otherwise we did send out notice. Um we did not get any written comment as part of the notice. Um so um that being said, I mean it seems pretty straightforward from a staff perspective. Um the commission should hold the required public hearing, allow anyone here present to speak on the request. Um once
that is um happened, close the hearing and then discuss amongst yourself um as to whether or not you would approve or deny. Um the recommendation would be to approve um subject to the um findings of fact and conditions outlined in your staff report. So uh if there are any
questions, I'm here to answer those. Right. They're not going any closer to the street than the current structure sits. So, um, >> well, public hearing. >> Excuse me. >> I'd like to have then the applicants if
they would like to add any information uh to to what we've started with so far. >> You guys have any questions? So then let's open the public hearing on this property and the request for variance.
Is there anybody who wishes to raise questions or speak to it? None. Close the public hearing discussion. >> I think yeah, I'll make a motion. motion recommend the city council approve the
request of street side hearings at 52565 based on certain findings outlining the staff reporting subject to following conditions through >> second and all in >> favor
carried and thank you >> yes n you're good to go this is a recommendation so it will go to the city council for final action in February. So, yep. Next item, comprehensive plan amendment application
of RV investments for comprehensive fund trans of the 2040 comprehensive plan from agriculture to residential low medium and expansion of the metrop services area for the property at 9400.
>> Yes. Uh thank you chair, members of the commission. Uh the second public hearing on your agenda here is for um a comprehensive plan amendment um for a property along Highway 7 with address 9400. Um it's about a 68 acre gross
parcel. Um the property owners have been working with a uh developer to possibly develop the site and in order to facilitate development uh we would need to change the long-term designation of the property from permanent egg to residential low medium and also expand the utility service area to include
these properties. So that is the request before you this evening. Um as the chair outlined it would be a permanent egg agriculture to low medium is the request of the applicant. uh that'll help propo um help with the proposed concept um which I think is about 230 units um
roughly about a 3.7 units per acre which uh meets the uh expected guidelines of the metropolitan council at 3.5 uh units per acre. Um so yeah um with that being said I mean staff did notice the the hearing. Um we did speak with a couple
people although they never spoke um submitted written comments so we don't have any written comment here. um only those couple of phone calls. Um but with that being said, um looking at the um information in front of you, you should hold the required hearing. I'm give
every anyone present here the opportunity to speak on the request and then close the hearing and then discuss amongst yourself whether or not um a recommendation um regarding this comprehensive plan amendment makes sense um for approval. Um based on the information provided um by the
applicant, uh staff would say to uh make a motion to recommend the city council approve the comprehensive plan amendment at 9400 Highway 7 um based on certain findings and subject to conditions. So I'm here if there's any questions amongst the commission. Otherwise, we
certainly can have the the hearing. >> What's that? >> Utilities. I mean it's the the expansion of the Musa or the metropolitan service area is for sewer and water. So that would be at the developer's expense to extend those utilities, but we have to incorporate that into our plan that that's now a new service area.
>> This is a resident that's asking change or is this a city saying we need to have? >> No, this is um uh a developer on behalf of the property owner is the one submitting it. Yeah. So it is a a landowner driven request. That's the one. >> Correct. Yep.
Go to the next >> one here. >> Um it's expected that they will be doing a phased approach. Um so they're anticipating four phases as part of this. Um so yes so that's what the blue lines are indicating is each uh individual phase
as far as the comprehensive plan >> get a little this is expected that this would be adjusted in the so is that what >> um no um where what words did I use no I mean
this this was previously ly in our urban reserve in the 2040 plan um sorry the 2030 plan I should say when we updated for 2040 we did remove some areas around St. Bonnie um from that urban reserve. So basically I think that comment was in
there to say at one point this was thought of as a a possible urban area um based on some of the shift we did um in the 2040 plan moving some of it east along Highway 7. There was some um swapping and trading so to speak. Um so I guess the the point of that comment is
just at one point this was thought of as a possible area for development. Does this tie does this tie into the requirements that the bank will have as far as testing? >> It meets that >> um it meets it. Um their their guidelines are expected to be 3.5 and
they're proposing a 3.7. So >> isn't there a plan that certain >> well I mean we do a dennial update every 10 years we update our plan. So this is in advance of our next update for 2050. So, I mean, as I mentioned earlier, it is based on landownerdriven requests. At
this point, the city doesn't make any changes until it looks at its long range plan for 2050. >> Is the land not on this? >> Um, so the the the the map there is our that's our land use map and you could see um the new color in the bottom
lefthand corner here um is what it would look like with the proposed amendment. So question. So the current areas that we have mapped >> that we're filling out east of the year.
>> Are we seeing those built out at a rate that would make us think we need? >> I mean it's basically we're at a situation where we got to work with the land owners. Um, so I mean if there's areas that they're un >> we're running out of current.
>> Yes. But >> you know ask developers to come in and you know that land out just I just want to >> Well, yeah. I mean obviously we've got you know different land owners at stake and some are ready to sell and some are aren't ready to sell. So I mean this is a case where the current land owner is
interested in in selling for development. So we kind of got to take it as as it comes from a property owner standpoint. Y permanent agriculture to residential. What we do?
>> Have we done this before? Um, not recently. I don't have a recent example of that. Um, but I mean, I'm sure at some point we have turned farmland into development. So, you know, I would I'd have to look at what the designations were prior to that. >> Woodland. >> Yeah, there you go. Wood.
>> Absolutely. I agree. Everybody's got an answer with that. Mhm. >> I I just was curious about what's the threshold for when we decide that we're going to let it go from permanent agriculture to residential. >> Just a request from the landowner
>> and Yeah. I mean, you know, >> right? >> By the new water treatment plant. >> There's Yeah, new treatment plant will be in the Woodland Cove neighborhood. Um obviously it's in close proximity to the new water tower. Yes. What's the previous question we had last
week? >> Um it is west. So the other property was you know basically at the um Kings Point Road in Highway 7. This is basically on the westbounds of Medita on Highway 7. Um yeah I don't know about a half mile or mile.
>> Mr. Chair, if I may kind of put this into context. So, um, these are properties that would most likely or could very foresee coming to the new cell within our next plan amendment. Currently, we are running out of units and we're building, as you know, a very
expensive water treatment plant and bringing in more housing at this point will only help the city help those that are currently on city water. So um this is what we have tried to do over the past 20 some years whatever we want a
slow method I call slow growth not an explosive growth which both of these developments the one that you were talking about previously and this one and this could then provide enough growth for the next you know 5 to 10 years I think so from that perspective I
am fairly certain that the um uh city engineers and city council probably be very much like about this. You are learning about a few minutes long as we keep up with the infrastructure with the water. obviously >> that has been exactly
>> build. >> Exactly. >> And if you recall a few years back there were some property owners that wanted to come into the Musa and at that time we said no because we didn't have the water capacity and now we're on the cusp of um building a new water treatment plant
which should be done in about two years which would then facilitate this. So we can now bring um more into the Musa. Again, we want to make sure that it's slow and manageable growth >> to spread the cost across.
>> Exactly. And location size. >> Is there any concern about traffic? Sorry. >> Well, so what will happen the highway? They'll go through the >> access and everything that has to go through the state. Um, all that has to be approved by midapp. >> So that'll be part of the process. M
>> but they can't go they can't take that step until the ma is >> approved. It looks a nice >> Yeah. So we'll have a public hearing on this amendment to the comprehensive plan.
I'll open up public. Start on that side. >> Everybody at this side. >> Okay. >> So, your name and your address, please. >> 9500 Highway 7. My land is right up to the land that
we're selling. So, my land My concern is if >> you would be um >> pull it up here. Um pass it here. So it
is this parcel right here. >> Okay. To the right is that long narrow strip right there. What's appropriated to use for that land? Can it be access to the highway as a road?
>> That will be at the discretion of Mandot as to whether or not MDOT would let any sort of access there. um you know they that's something they would you know through the process and discussions with mind um as to whether or not that would be an alternate access point. >> So at this
>> at this point they're not showing any there um with this concept but as it is a concept it is subject to change. So I mean if they have conversations with Mandot and MDOT is comfortable with some form of access there it's possible something could come up that way. Um but
that would be at the discretion of MDOT. >> If it does have a road there, I'd be paying better then >> the the extension of the the roads is all a cost paired by the developer. So at the initial cost, you wouldn't you wouldn't pay anything on the initial cost
>> on the initial application? No. Nope. Nope. >> That's my concern. >> Right. No. Yeah. I mean, yeah. No, the installation is fully on the developer. So is there any uh barrier uh to the site the high side of what's developing
there for me? You know on the line there I have the the north side. >> Yeah. I mean they'll as part of when they get to the preliminary plat which would be kind of the first formal subdivision plan. Um they will be required to put a landscaping plan together. At that point we can evaluate
what is being proposed and you'll be get you'll be given a notice for that hearing. So you certainly could make your opinions. um known and and we could work with you and the developer to come together on a landscape plan that would work. >> Housing going around that you see on my
property >> ways around there. >> Yep. >> How high are those buildings? >> So those are all town homes as proposed. Um maximum building height is 35 ft. So that would be the maximum it could be and that's from average grade to average
pitch of the roof. you know the dropped down to build on but they did that on the other side you know >> sure um bas >> yeah b based on the information I have I can't say how they might accommodate that I don't know if our developer is here he can maybe speak to what the the
thought process is there but there isn't a grading plan with this concept so I'm not sure how they would um grade the site to facilitate the building locations and that's something that would come with a preliminary plat which again you would be notified of so you'd certainly be able to that before um something is
approved from a a platting standpoint. >> Has the land been sold? Is that is that final? Has it been sold or >> I don't believe it's been sold. I believe there's a purchase agreement. Um I assume some level of approval is a condition of that purchase agreement.
>> What's that? >> The approval of land to be sold. >> We wouldn't get involved in the sale of the property. No. Um any sort of subdivision plans, the city would review those. So, like I said, the preliminary plan is the next subdivision plan you'd see, and the city does have to approve
that. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions on this development proposal? >> Scott Hazy, I'm chair question. >> I'm sorry, I missed that. That went too fast. Scott Hazy.
>> Scott Hazy had the address >> 5590 spoke avenue there. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh a question that most people are here for I think in that corner over there. We maintain Buck Lake Road and if it comes out to Buck Lake Road, what are
your plans for the road there too on the left side there? Yeah, I guess as part of the development, the city's expectations is that would be improved to uh either the city or the the township standards. Um >> but the land owner again would be paying
the cost. >> The developer would would be the one bearing that cost. Yes. >> So up to the intersection, you know, where they're coming off of is I guess where we would look at, >> right? anyone go beyond there to the park west a little bit or not or does that be right >> I mean that's maybe could be discussed
but I I don't know initially that would be part of the plan um >> would be a stop sign located right there >> um yeah I mean it would be a a three-way or you know so I suppose some sort of traffic control would be there >> and what's your time lines I know mentioned earlier
with Lisa there that you come back to the council then come back to council and what's the timelines you think would start developing on this roughly >> the start it's it's hard to say I mean the comp comprehensive plan amendment process is potentially a 60 120day
process just for that and then to go through some um preliminary plats another 60 to 120 days I mean I I would could something happen this fall possibly but that assumes a lot of things moving quickly um but you know I
mean it it certainly could be a four to six month process >> so we would talk wire sponsorship and you guys and stuff like that. >> Yeah. And I believe yeah, we did give a notice to you guys. So, um we'll look for those comments by that deadline and certainly continue the conversation.
>> Yep. >> One more question. >> Has to have a park in it. I don't see a parking. So yeah, the the city um at at some point it would go before its park um board and there is either the option to dedicate land or to take cash in loo.
So they would potentially be paying a fee um for park dedication and that would then go into the existing park system. >> Not necessarily. No. So either they pay um a fee equivalent to the land or they donate the land. Um I could say at least
recent practice has been to take that cash in l just to continue to maintain our existing system. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> So we have no >> understood. I mean that will be evaluated throughout the process as to whether or not a park here makes sense
or if the cash and loom makes sense. Again this is just a concept so it is subject to change. >> Yep. Um Mark Ditch 141752nd Street Columbia does have any plans crossing over the car?
>> No. >> No. >> Okay. We like to take it over. >> All right. Any other questions, comments? >> Sorry.
>> 5145 Buck Lake Road. I'm concerned if you got that that road that's coming onto Buck Lake Road, what's going to happen to all the traffic that's going to be on Highway 7. How is that going to affect us as individuals on our Buck Lake Road? How much traffic are we going
to have? And Buck Lake Road on Highway 7 right there is already a hazardous because it goes from it used to be 15 miles an hour and 55 now come over 60 and 65 miles an hour. And how are we ever going to get on Highway 7 when we
got all those traffic coming out on Tupac Lake Road right there and then onto Highway 7. You can see traffic study >> on the grade. That's what's affecting us. >> Yeah. I mean, as as part of the process, like we said, I mean, it's it's Highway
7, so it's the state's jurisdiction. So, I'm sure as part of their permitting for any sort of access or modification to an existing access, they would look for some sort of traffic information to understand what's going in, what's coming out, and what traffic measures make the most sense based on those traffic levels. You know, whether
there's turn lanes in and out. Um, if there's any sort of >> Do you know what that like? It comes up up the highway and comes up to a peak right there. Right. And to put a roundabout or anything there, that is a very very bad and
that's what I'm really concerned where it's going to be another exit to get out of there that's going to be a safer one >> for everybody that >> we're going at at this point in time. >> Okay. >> Point further down the road. focusing to
come out on highway seven right up that >> so that's very >> my big concern >> understandable concern >> anybody else on this item thank you sir
>> name and address please 94900 across uh you mentioned the waters how is that going to affect our water is the water going to go down for our Um are you a minister resident that is currently
>> okay? So you're in Hunter's Crest. >> Y >> so um it should but not necessarily but more housing that are on our current water system will dissipate the the cost more. So >> spread the capital cost,
>> right? It'll spread the capital cost out. Welcome sir. >> Hi, my name is Jim 516 crossing Minnesota. Um, I would say that just overall I guess I'm not necessarily opposed to
this. I guess I'm opposed to general development altogether just because I think we all live in Minrista for a lot a lot of our reasons for living here and why we like it here. And one of the biggest reasons I like it
here is because it has a rural feel. Um there's a lot of open space, there's a lot of wildlife. That's a big a big thing for me and seeing this development slowly creeping in.
Honestly, it's sad for me and I I'm just speaking for myself, right? This is how I feel about it. I'm not speaking for anybody else, but um yeah, it saddens me a little bit to see this happening. Maybe it's inevitable, right? It doesn't
have to be. So you look east and it seems like every square inch of open available land is being developed. And I just hope that as you guys consider these proposed developments down the road that we're
also thinking about open space and parks um because yeah I don't I don't want to see every square inch get developed. So >> I think that's all I have to say. Thank you. >> Lisa, can you speak to the Met Council on how that affects funding for high
versus the agricultural land we have? >> So, Met Council doesn't give us funding. However, um they do require so again we're on the cusp of having to update um our current comprehensive plan. And what they do is they give us a certain number of units that we have to provide. In
other words, they say, "Okay, you're on the hook for let's say a thousand units." Okay? So, so then we have to figure out okay and then they say whatever density you do is going to have to be 3.5 that's the minima. So they give us densities and they give us number of units that we have to absorb.
Um so then we look at the map and we say okay how can we accommodate that and still try and keep as this gentleman just mentioned as much open space and world quality feel that we like here init. So we I we do have to do
something. Um and so what we've been trying to do over the years is we've been trying to um have all of the development along Highway 7. Keep in mind has 32 square miles. And of that area that we have, we only have about
onethird at the most that's developed. The rest is still rural and a small um 10 acre 5acre lots. So, I don't foresee this development or the other one um along Highway 7 changing the feel to the
um north uh a lot. That that's really going to remain very much similar. But the other thing to consider is within the next year to year and a half, we'll probably be starting this either the end of this year or next year. Um the update of a comprehensive plan, we have to look and see, okay, where are we going to put
these units? these two lots or these two areas that we're now incorporating are are really a good place to put them. So, we're just kind of upping upping the timeline a little tiny bit if that helps.
>> So, I think forgive me if I'm incorrect, but at the last meeting we had a new council was brought up and I thought it was kind of funding andor was there a penalty if we don't do that and what is the requirement besides revenue from the city? No, we don't get revenue from net council.
>> No, from the increase in housing. >> No. So, it's kind of a um it's not really a accurate um revenue from the the new developments. Basically, whatever the city's um levy is is then
spread out over more housing units. So if our levy is 7 million and it's spread out over 3,500 properties and now there's 4,000 properties, it's it's just spread out more. So we we have to set our budget and we set our levy depending
on what our needs are. And the more housing and units that we have, it's just spread out over more of those units if that makes sense. But we don't get money from the Met Council. Is that because we're not under the Met Council's rule right now or >> We are under the Met Council.
>> Yes, we are. >> Trying to understand why I was confused last meeting that Met Council had some control over the density or the location, how much high >> got to decide where the
>> they density was versus them coming in and being a dictator over what the density was. So it was we liked that it was our choice our residents were making the decisions and I could be totally wrong but we liked having our the people who live here have more control over
them. >> So then we have to go to if you have a problem with this what I'm trying to get at you have an issue with what the Met council is displaying just be careful benefits to try to change how the Met Council sets these requirements. >> Yeah. So that's the correct way to try to address this.
>> And so the way and I think um Commissioner Lindsay you were correct. The way this works as Met Council gives us a certain number of housing units and a certain number of density. So what we can do is we can say okay on this property we're going to do 12 units an acre and on this property we're only
going to do two units an acre as long as it averages out to 3.5 units. And that's what we did at the last comprehensive plan. If you recall the um the Hunter >> Hunter Pass >> Hunter Pass, that's I think 12 units I think it's 12 units an acre. But yet
because we did that there, we were able to do less density elsewhere. And so that's what we'll be we'll be looking at um in with the new comprehensive plan update. >> I understand the density misp I think that main question is the Met Council
>> direct. Exactly. Yeah. This is um I think if Minor Trista had our brothers, we would probably try and do less density of course and more open space. So um but unfortunately the Med Council has authority over density and health
because they provide service. >> The only service they provide out here is sewer. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Not the best place to do it. Okay, >> huge upgrade.
>> Yeah, let's hope so. >> It is. >> Any other comments for public hearing? >> I do. I 5145 Buck Lake Road and I'm concerned with that tower you got there. Why would you ever put a water tower where there
wasn't a water underneath it? I my well is 160 ft deep and where's the plans of putting a well for that tower? >> The well >> it's been a difficult journey. >> There's no water for underneath that tower. >> The tower is for storage only. So you
pump the water into the tower. >> Next well. >> So the two next the two new wells that we're drilling are in the um Woodland Cove development and they're going to be right next to the new water treatment plant that we're building out there. >> Yeah. is the whole west line of that.
>> Yeah. >> And we're not we're not um tapping into the aquifers or groundwater in your area that we haven't already done. So, so there's wells in the wood um Hunter Grass development and those wells are
are also part of a whole system. >> So there'll be no wells on that side. >> There's none that are planned right now. >> So we we pump the water over by Wooden Cove. We pump it into the treatment plants and then it's pumped into the um
into the pipes and some of it goes into that water tower by you. Some of it goes into another water tower. >> Why would they ever put a tower underneath? >> It's okay. If you want to get into engineering, we can. But I'm going to be
very very high level on this. Okay. The water towers are really for fire protection. That's the primary reason you have water towers. It gives you the pressure that you need in order to fight house fires, okay? Or fires. It gives you some extra um storage, okay? That's
basically what it's what water towers are for. Some are above ground, some are underground, but you also get better pressure. So, when we looked around for sites to put a water tower in, we we had to look at a number of different things. Again, I'm not going to get into all
those details. Yeah, >> I know. I had friends that lived in the other side of stress before the tower was there 5:00 in the afternoon their water pressure definitely >> I can't believe you put a water tower up
without complete well system >> that's another option but it was difficult to make that work in this particular case it's difficult to find the land >> let's just say finding the land was the hard part >> as it doesn't affect very well against
Western property only 160 ft. So >> you put a little well someplace or whatever it >> I know it's a lot of water. >> They don't have water underneath that now would definitely neighbors close by with
our >> No, we're not we're not drilling wells there. >> All right. Any other comments on this issue? Please come to the podium. >> Question question. >> You have to come here. So
>> So these meetings are recorded. So >> that's a silly question. >> I just the Met Council thing was a little confusing. So the Met Council isn't saying, "Okay, Minatrista, you have to have so many developments."
They're just saying that you must if you're going to develop, you have to have 3.5 homes per acre. >> But they also give us a number of units that we have to include in our comp plan. So they say you're on the hook for
a thousand unit. I'm just using a number a thousand units. And you can put those thousand units anywhere you want, but you have to also meet that density requirement. So there's two things you have to meet. Density as well as numbers. >> Yeah. So they're saying you do need to
>> Yes, except if land owners, for instance, that parcel, it's a 50 acre parcel right next to Hunter Crest, it's called Hunter Pass. Um it hasn't sold and who knows why, but anyhow, um if you don't if the land owners don't want to
sell, don't want to develop, they don't have to. >> Okay. So, >> but it has to be on a map. >> They're not forcing the issue. Sort of are. They might >> All right. >> I think other comments are going to
close the public hearing. >> Good evening. I'm John Anderson. I'm with the developer brand Lson Homes and we're representing the land owner who is selling property to us. They'll kind of answer a few of the things that came up here tonight. Um we do have a contract
to purchase the landing season like that and uh we are looking at getting through this process. Uh we're working on and we do look to submit that here in the near future and our goal is to be
moving here. We have by fall. So things down the road a few times like that. >> Um as far as dealing with Mindot, we have speaking with Mindot as well. uh
the black lake road access they have done working on a study right now basically from carbon county border all the way back into city of Hopkins highway 7 what that's going to be in the long term so the intersection to the east of us
here as well which is now facing this property is also part of that study longterm there would be another access point there seven which you know goes into the 100 south that eventually go into property east of this site with roadways looking together that will
provide you know food traffic. Um as staff mentioned there's a little strip of land there uh by the run highway 7. There has been some discussion about a temporary roadway into the project for a secondary access that would go away long
term when they're not happy to develop nature that hasn't been agreed upon. Uh so that's something that hasn't looked into. >> So if you look to the east down there, there's a roadway point south right
where that arrow is. Long term that'll also extend north as Wildwood Avenue right now, but that'll extend north and proxy to the north. Whenever that landlord decides to sell and that property will develop those roadways then tie into our project. You can see we still have a few roads to the east
property line and that would get through routes to have Buck Lake Road come in there. So there we discussed obviously it's land um a little bit on the M council. uh
basically met council with seven they run seven county every city and township but then have to do some sort of plan in 10 years and what they do is they do a population projection
to the statement but they base every city says you're going to grow by 3,000 people well then they divide that by the number of people per household they this house. So that's how they look at and they do say you have to accommodate
that use. with no land owner sell within the next two years probably going to happen but typically there are settle and in this case that's happened here and just so you know this I know it did
sell the city for the water that was previously since they sold that and now this has been a few years there property and go from there so that council does control that and have staff said uh 58,000
house the city gets kind of pick where they go but you do have to meet that overall stand could be higher some lower kind of a mixture higher density solid 477 the single family homes higher price
point home um so that's kind of you know what's going on there we have three unit requirement that's a requirement which will make satisfy Um, as far as a couple other quick items, uh, I kind of touched on that
strip of land and that adjacent property we're down there. Yeah, we will be submitting a landscape plan. We do plan on having some screening, no trees, things like that, some area specifics haven't been determined yet, but that's in the process worked on. Um there would be no adjacent property cost or any
screening and roadways any trails that would be accept any neighboring properties about the city that would all that development. Um there are town homes on south end somebody mention ask
about that at this time in that area. We also have a single level but yeah we would be bringing in I know you asked about the blue lines and those are prop lines they may adjust one way or another. I know we might have
a couple ponds, but adjust a couple lots here and there. Uh we're working through trying to we have to do the water from the ponds for irrigation and all that. >> And I have a question. So in regards to the ponds, are you guys going
well to build those ponds or water >> that >> because that's kind of we we're not 100% sure that's going to work out. I know would be great you know city requirement for the reuse irrigation those ponds go dry.
So it's something I recommend to fully start thinking about. >> No irrigation looking at this right now. Um so we don't I don't really have that answer but um it might be required of the irrigation purposes.
>> Um so that's that's is being discussed also at the grade issue they talk about what the elevation grade we don't have our grading site completed yet. Um so I'm not exactly sure where that's at. I don't think we're trying to not limit that. You know, we don't want to create a bunch of property waste sites sites.
That just cost money from a excavation uh standpoint. So, we're hoping that area stays fairly close to what it is. There's areas kind of more in the middle where some of the ponds are lower. I can see some of those areas houses in those areas being raised. you know those wetland kinds to the to
the west there elevation which is why with that being said I can take any other questions but like I said we're here but we do expect to you have four pages what's your timeline.
>> Uh if everything would go as planned, we start building houses this year and we don't know what the exact timing is going to be. We get the tight hopefully get a model before freeze up next winter. Um but the goal be to do one each year now like I said four phases could go to three could go to five depending on
market. Um but like I said are right now just kind of give an idea but you know said there's three different product types. So >> uh we are not planning for a park based on discussions with for this area. So we
are looking for wild. Yeah. >> Thank you. will be not able to access that. >> Excuse me. You need to hold on chair.
>> Got to ask if you're not going to be able to access that land, you know, off the highway >> and make access road access out of there. >> Meaning Then if they can't use it for
>> Let's leave it there. Let's make it Let's leave it there for the moment. There'll be further meetings. This is a long way from being houses built. >> Yeah. There's several at least what two more meeting processes. >> Well, there's this comprehensive plan. Then there's a preliminary um plat um which will have a hearing, another
meeting here with the planning commission um and then it'll go to the council for final approval. Um so there is a couple phases of meetings. So there'll be more specific drawings and landscaping issues to review the road. So we've got all that to consider. We're just looking at the
preliminary layout as concept at this point in time. Is that right? >> So you'll know when the meetings are and talk about your concerns or questions. >> Yes, the preliminary plat does require a hearing. So it does get a notice sent
out so that that meeting will be noticed otherwise all meeting >> right that probably will happen at the same meeting >> let's have that conversation in the hallway >> seriously >> signing us up where all this traffic where is all this traffic coming from
where are they getting onto the highway? >> We're not signing in off tonight. There'll be there'll be a further meeting later that looks at landscaping, road access. >> So just just to be clear, tonight all the commission is doing getting input
from all of you and they'll be making a recommendation to the city council as to whether or not to bring this property into the Musa to the metropolitan service urban area. That means um are we okay with with bringing this property
into the util with utilities sewer and water. That's really all we're doing here tonight. The developer has added an extra um bonus if you will by providing a preliminary sketch plan. I'll call it
a sketch plan. And it's very very high level at this point. Think about it as 10,000 ft up. Okay? all of the details, how big the water storm water ponds are going to be, uh how they're going to be filled, where the roads are going to be, what the access to highway 7 is going to
be, how that's going to look, where it's going to be. All of those details will be ironed out in the future. So tonight, all we're doing is do you does the commission feel this is appropriate time to bring this property into the Musa? That's really all we're doing tonight.
The other thing is bonus. I explained it to my husband that we're just saying does the development belong here? Yes, sir. >> Yeah, that's it. We nothing else. All of us, you guys have plenty of time to weigh in. >> For sure.
>> Once the development is there, it still needs roads that come out. >> Of course, >> I found the seven information on their website very interesting. the research that they have been conducting in traffic studies. I thought that was very helpful. So I would recommend surging
that direction because they have more authority and jurisdiction over those things than we personally have friends that St. Bonn Road and they won't even go back to Buck Lake Road when they live in St. Bonnie and they're a half a mile from St. B.
They go all the way around the go to 92 around the backside because you cannot get on 97 to get on >> when we say that'll come laterbody else ma'am we've we've made your point
>> is there anybody else anything that's different than heard so questions. All right, close the public hearing. >> Thank you. Thank you all for coming out. >> Well, we need a vote. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you for coming. >> Yes, commission should obviously still discuss this if you wish before you make a recommendation. So, just because the hearing's closed doesn't mean you've acted on the item >> discussion. Well, I just would say that now that I understand that
this makes sense with the problem building things out and it's alignment. Those were my big questions if it was a fit with the plan or not. And it seems to me and I like >> that's the whole thing.
expect that to happen. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> So, yeah, we still need a recommendation from the commission. I move motion to recommend the city council approve the requested comprehensive plan amendment 9400 state
highway 7 based on certain findings of fact outlining the staff report except to the following conditions one through two >> second all in favor all Right. >> Yes. Obviously, this is a recommendation. We'll forward it to the
city council in February. >> You know, >> it'll probably be February 18th. Um because we need to have at least uh four council members at the meeting. So, it should probably be February 18th. >> All right. Moving on. The last item,
interuse permit application from county for an interse I'll start real quick and then I'll hand it over to um Nick here. So, the reason this is um I got a couple calls saying, "How come this is here before us yet
again?" Um the reason this is here is because um the city was in a um um >> court mediation. >> Yes. And the court ordered mediation. And so we went to mediation back in June
and and the ultimate or the end result of that was that the mediator said, "Well, the Gillespie should have an opportunity to apply for an IUP. And so they had until uh February to apply for the IUP. And so here we are
again with um an application from from the Glazby cones for an IUP for a storage. I think it's different if I'm not mistaken. I think it was a CUP before. And the difference of course is an IUP runs with the owners versus the
letter. Um yes, I mean that was part of my um what I had planned to say. Lisa covered that. Um but with respect to um the application request at hand here, um I did outline in your staff report the items to consider when looking at an
interim use permit. Um you know, obviously the the idea is to make sure that um the use would then conform to the zoning regulations. um looking at a date or event at which then that um permit may terminate. Um
and then obviously that the allowed use would not bear any additional costs to the city beyond that. And then any other conditions that you'd want to add sub similar to a conditional use permit. um looking at the factors of noise, um things like that, um fire safety
concerns, traffic, um the effect on surrounding properties, um this the long-term consistency with the comprehensive plan, and those types of things. Again, it's all spelled out in your uh staff report. Um we did send a a notice um because it's an interuse
permit, it's 1500 ft. Um so, we did send notices out um as you saw in your packet. Um there were several comments received. Um we did receive a couple additionals since the uh packet was posted. Those were printed and at your seat for you. Um so you have all that information and then obviously there will be a public hearing required as
part of this request. So you'll give the people in the audience here an opportunity to speak um should they wish to do so. Um with that being said um you know after you hold your hearing um the commission should certainly discuss amongst themselves and make a determination on which direction they'd like to proceed with this request. Um
there would be two options. you would be I'm looking either to make a motion to the city council to recommend approval of the interim use permit. Um you'd have to establish findings and um potentially attach conditions to that should there be concerns uh raised or it would be a a
motion to recommend the city council deny the um application request here um should you do so again establishing findings as to why uh the request should be um denied. Um, so that being said, I think we got quite a bit of people here. It probably makes sense to get into the
hearing and allow um those present that wish the opportunity to speak. Um, and once we do so, close the hearing and then like I said, discuss amongst yourself uh as to which direction you'd like to proceed. >> Okay. Public hearing.
So would the applicants want to speak first or >> do you want to question? >> So last question we get answer. >> Thank you. Yeah. Name and address please.
>> I'm going to refer you to these. My name is Joe Sanderson. My wife and I live in 57 years. Um, our neighborhood is based on our own
personal property or a small interest, the integrity of our practice and the president that prepare future. Our area is so agricultural res. It is the legal mechanism to see us
preserve open space environment that he's been talking about today. um the owners on this plan and responsibility. Fortunately, this responsibility has
been challenged a commercial operator into a large scale storage issues not permitted in our district and it did not begin with public hearing like we were hearing with the development.
They began with trade removal of heavy equipment and rows of boats long before the signals ever asked for approval. This is not a minor deviation. This is direct violation of the filming count and the required land use. Um and so I'm going to talk about the scale of the
operation. The first two pages you will have the u the uh the owners are interrogatories number 16 and 17 stated that based on a year first two years of this operation we are in the third
widget the second uh the third page you'll see it's interesting is they compared equivalent to a 450 3/4 ton truck. So the third picture is 100 four 250 3/4 ton drops in a parking lot that
is what's sitting there in a rural uh residential area. Um, you know, I also want to bring up that remind the city must be able to rely on factory
information yet several statements have been conflicting observable facts. No, they claim in the application that there is none. Yet noise has significant environmental impact. They claim none.
Yet they gave fuels, oils, hydraulic fluids, and a number of chemicals needed for boat repairs, winter preparation, and spring preparation. All of these activities are carried out by the environment or especially at the speed
of fire on a porous surface that no maintain conditions. So anything spilled heavy rain, it's going to go our ecosystem. a firehouse. They claim not yet. They are building a number of massive burns. You will see that in the
next three slides of paper, they're all pictures. The largest they don't have a picture. These are a fire hazard. Um and based on the interest of code 1510, it's
considered um a hazard due to the poly and if these rem catch on fire, all of our homes in the woods and around the park are going to be at risk. Um the scope of use, they claim it's
only going to be both search and repair only. But if you look at page, which is a picture I took last night from their Facebook page, as you see on there, dated November 18th, 2025, they promote repairs.
These discrepancies go directly to one of the applicants going to meet the condition. The inter permit must be temporary and have a defined end. The applicant has stated there is no end date and no limit on the number of boats. Approving the
sign would effectively grant commercial use for district is not allowed. Functionally a reszoning without following the reszoning process as we saw earlier tonight. And I sense the president that any business can establish operations first bypass
approval process and then see later. In closing affairs, I will ask you to uphold the zoning code and protect integrity language process. This operation is notable.
It is not consistent with the comprehensive plan that is to the surrounding properties. I respectfully ask you to deny the centurion's permit and uphold some of the decision tonight will shape only not only our
neighborhood but the expectations you travel. Thank you very much for your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Back up. Thank you. >> Any other speakers? >> Seeing none. >> Anybody else wants to speak before the
applicant >> before the applicant? >> Should have had the applicant speak. She wanted to go ahead. I have the applicant. >> I have no Mikey 1305
been here 45 years. Been through process an ostrich farmer said I looked at the facility over this. On the other hand, nobody had a chance to look for. They moved in, did not file
a permit. Under my understanding, they just decided we have a deal with this stuff later. The LLC, the corporation that is listed there,
not individuals like the rest of us. I have a package here and I'm not going to bore you with it of violations of stop and decel readings. I also have tariffs from MDOT on how much damage
both trailer will do versus the garbage truck and it's completely obvious more than the tire number. This is just a force move in. They
founded the property. They bought it cheap. The people that were there out now if it does go through. You know what? I'm 69. I can I can sell to anybody
that there is no in Okay. >> Speak a little louder, please. >> Sorry. So, >> I know the feeling. >> Yeah. Um before I kind of get into some
of the stuff that I prepared just few quick things we do far in advance offered to work on somewhere amongst some sort of meetings but so I
if we did not buy this. I'm going to tell you that I did not buy this. So, I just want to make sure that all of that is um I'm going to try to go over this. I did go through the package at the
weekend putting factual information together in regards to what is going on. Now, I don't know if I remember how many people have it. So >> okay um
again this property is awkward and emotionally that has not change that. Obviously there has been a special which is also why you
first we're not an industrial site we are small business owners are deeply within this community Um and frankly just trying to to get by at this this point in time um with small business
are important to the world. So um so despite the New York facility program but I have separate responses I do real estate. We have this. We're trying to have lowers. I'm
advised by professionals. I want to do this and that's why we do it. There's nothing that we're just trying to protect. So, we started with nothing. And like I said, we're just we're just trying to
future boys. Um we're absent in this community. um back in the line after we started witnessing and I'm not even sure if there's something
so I was a local business organization involved in state so again city council where I worked tirelessly in some
step to build reputation to our original process that we got here and I didn't ever put my family for some because I truly didn't believe I was still
right. So um and you can ask for some people that may speak here tonight. There's one large names of people in this community who um who are putting out their reputation who stick.
So I'd also like to note that through this process we have tried to keep open lines of communication because talk to our neighbors and stuff. And some of them will call us back. They won't talk to us. That's all I do. This piece of paper this list right here that
I have from one single email all there's over 80 of them and out of that 80 over 50% of them within one mile to be fun with they all support us. They don't think that's something that
we don't trust. Um now in regards to noise, our noise is understanding low level noise. We did have a notice from the first client meeting. We addressed immediately with somebody who stood in the west with us.
My husband immediately addressed that issue even with Bobcat. We were able to muffle it without jeopardizing the safety. It's a safety standard. We notified him immediately. We haven't we've never heard a single complaint
over noise. Uh going forward uh the traffic I know it's been addressed in the package. I'd like to note that when I went back I did calculation there is a minimum of 150 million a year. There's
no hauling. There's no boats. There's lines. So if you want to go back and the math from how often garbage and dump truck we are far I should say it's it's less than 50%. We've decrease that number
increase four to six four to six larger than bowls that would be about the same weight as an empty. That's it. Everything else is on average the weight of 250 or less. So
um so just just kind of on your mind we are still business. Um we heard a lot about screening we had asked the city on a few occasions can you come out walk through this with us what exactly are you looking for? Um
it's my understanding city is not to to do that. Um but we promise heard hey if there's something natural this so we did we started building um we're standing basically directly west. We started building a dirt b there two other ones. Got that B and I have
pictures over here. We started and so then we also did something natural and now that we did something natural there's complaints about that. It's like we tried it and we say hey tell us that you like we'll reach out. What do you guys want to see? And we got no feedback. So then we just have to go
okay let's start something. And now again we're getting um complaints. Now I only have two copies. So So you have them on the city council. So you must be familiar with zoning and how it works and and and how these
permitting processes work. So I mean the reason you're not getting the feedback seems to me that you didn't ever go through the process. Is that reasonable? I mean I don't I don't understand what you're asking. Sorry. >> So like like when we just had this hearing, right? And we got lots of
feedback from that's when you get the feedback from from the residents and from the from us and then later from the city council on what kind of BMS and what it's all kind of happening backwards. So I think that's might be part of
>> I don't think I agree with it but I understand what you're saying. I remember if I remember correctly I think that when you purchased the property it was already zone. >> Yeah. When we purchased it, they were using it for commercial outdoor storage
mechanical repair, which is what we're seeing. We're continuing that use size, shape, color of outdoor storage, talking with the with after talking with attorney, but prior to that, my understanding, my expertise, everything I had learned is we were we were within
our rights to be grandfathered. >> That's my So that's grandfathered into us. >> Yeah. As owners. Yes. And now you're figuring out that you weren't >> Well, no, not necessarily. That's still a discussion, but came out says, "Hey,
what's what's a path we can go through that we can all get on to instead of continuing to draw those out?" So between mediation um the mayor was there um at the old city council and my husband and I and obviously attorneys and some city staff respect through that
mediation it was discussed and brought back after some other discussions of what the city thought maybe we could do with the property. This would be probably the best way to take forward. >> I I'm going to I want to just say
something. The city said you can apply, but there was no, we didn't say you would get it because there's obviously seven planning commissioners that would have to review it. There's five council members. We said you can apply and the
mediator said this is the process you have to go through. I just want to make that clear. We didn't say you can apply and we will approve it. I just for clarification. >> Yes. So the the course was to reapply for for the IP. Um and the process in in
that process all of the litigation we're currently in would be which didn't quite happen but that's um where we're at right now. Question I'm just catching up a little bit. So in the real estate contract wouldn't it
have stated the zoning? >> No. What I've never purchased real estate that didn't state that you're in is so it was not on market off we had we weren't out looking for this property we
still um just still state how it's zoned the seller it you can be zone a certain way but if you have a property that has an existing brand property okay but I still feel like that should
be stated in the real estate No, it's not stated in the contract listing. >> Just correct someone's telling her what they're telling her. So she was that's what I was trying to
>> do weigh >> yeah because when we visited we actually saw all these activities taking place to buy some of the equipment that they were leasing out but we actively saw that stuff.
>> So what I'm going to do is I have a few pictures I wrote on the back make sense of what's what um you'll see a little bit of the burn. to see a little bit of >> what we what I see driving around. We've asked some of the property owners, hey, can we come stand what you see so you
can better understand this because they know what you have. Let's do that. So what we have there two >> I would like to just clarify what our opportunity for decisions are here as a
part of the panel. Um the um property was purchased and I would have thought that that would have triggered a review of the permits that were necessary for the business uh and what would be required for business property
in this area. Do you have some comment on that sir? >> Mr. chair, members of the planning commission. I mean, typically, I think you kind of saw it in the last application when the developer got up and spoke and he said, "We're waiting to make sure we have all our land use approvals before we go through with the
purchase of the property." So, they have not purchased the property because they want to make sure they get everything they need from the city before they purchase the property so that they're not stuck with property they can't use and can't develop. Um, arguably I think what Miss LeBron is saying is that she
believed that the property was a, you know, it was a grandfathered in non-conform legal non-conforming use and therefore there were no additional approvals. Um, that needed to be made from the city. Um, but I don't think the
city was checked in about that. And then I mean that's something we're arguing about in court. We don't need to go there here. This is just about the IUP. if you want to give them an IEP and if they meet the standards for the IUP under the city's code that that's all you need to worry about yours.
>> So used to be a garbage business. Now the request is to have it be a boat business. We get to decide whether we think that's >> and I think what I'm hearing is that the fact that it was a garbage business is irrelevant to whether or not to >> that's for the court to decide.
>> Yeah. >> So there's no precedent existing currently where physics installed the note and to go over >> that. That's for the court to decide. >> Right now, we're just do you want to give them an IEP or not? Do they meet the standards?
>> So, in the use permits, a lot of the things were about safety, like fire safety and fuel. You talk about that all >> um so not to I will get to your question. So I
don't start jumping around if that's okay. Um so we kind of talked a little bit about um the screening. Um there was also a statement made that use of like the zone district which is just
actually inex there is also um storage. There's boat storage. as well as um repair and other administrs on boats are closed closed systems. You're not going to have this like you
do an oil change. It's contained inside the boat. It's not like a car where you're underneath it or anything like that. So, um, from that standpoint, it is far safer, far cleaner. We pull all of our oil out and we take it to our other, um, facility auto repair shop,
which is the only place we did not get done here. Yes, I use the same Facebook page because it's easier to manage one. So again with that we have standards on how we dispose the waste or what we do and
we have you know things get picked up from our fuel or yeah oil filters and stuff like that. So we get everything out so it's far cleaner than what it ever has been and we virtually eliminated any risk of of any chemical
spill. So, I know to interrupt, but does the fire department review certain things like that when it's this type of business or I'm just curious. No, the fire department does not um review them. We've had inspections done
in each with the exception having an eye station or eyewash station. We have those inspections. Yeah, you could condition the approval if if that's the direction you ultimately go in um to require
periodic whatever duration or time you deem appropriate. Um there was a mention of acid shock. Acid shock is that's actually a rapid severe decrease in the pH of a body of water by a sudden surge in a toxic aluminum concentration. Um
typically versus there is no aluminum concentration in wash. We have pamphlets from the company um on the stuff that business states basically
we're not having any issues with that. Um the toilet pumping we do not do this on site. We strongly strongly strongly encourage any boat if it has a head yet on the lake. And no matter how many times you tell somebody there's probably one or
two people don't do it. So unless we're freezing, we would hire a company to come in. Um I think we've only done this seen once or twice in the last few years. Not at all. We're take it back to the um dump it. Otherwise, we'd have a company come in
pump it right there. So none of it's done by us and none of our site. So that's an issue I want. Um also we are a lake service um certified lake service provider. It's a a program that DNR came up with a number of years
ago when started coming in since the onset of that. We have permitted lake service which means we handle all our decontamination issues within the step. So, um, so
sorry, I'm not feeling really bad. So, I'm really trying to stay focused for you here. Um, we have been in communication with the large district because we did communicate with them via email
multiple times. They asked questions. We answered them and now we've not heard anything since probably half. So as far as we're aware all the issues or questions I have getting into this long way issues
and again I just want to state my husband is on five to six days a week um to this property so why we're like 10 houses from the minist we're very close to this property um and I can just give you an example if there's an issue for
town we get a call one of the says, "My husband gets up and goes over trust." So, I know some people have an issue with us not being saved, but I can tell you probably take care of that property better than I've seen some homeowners um do.
>> Okay. So, there's two houses. >> There's two houses that actually rent to the same individual. So, um they have they're a family, great family. They love being out there. Their kids in school here. Um and at any point
down the road um they always talk about what they love about you. We'll have that discussion. So and they they've been really great. He's also a arborist by nature. So he is the one that kind of helped us. Okay,
these trees made this dead. This is why said okay well when we plant how do we do this? We said well if you plant these trees we have to whip out these to plant. So plan B kind of screen again I don't want to put something out
I don't we don't have small business so the clock it's getting hard Um, >> one of the conditions of the IUP is um, a date or event that will terminate use. >> Um, do you have a date or
>> we never really discuss that in mediation? I don't know if >> that's the sale of the property. >> It's what it's what would be discussed in the terms amongst the planning commission. >> I don't think we have a question about
that. I think you mentioned IP runs with the individual out of the land right so once they vacate the land sees the top right >> so that would be the event that >> not necessarily you can also set a time frame >> you have you have the discretion to to
unilaterally determine the time frame the event what have you but it has to be something that concrete right I mean it can't be you know it's got to be something that you can look at say it's something that's going to happen >> right exactly That can be, you know, it could be a
certain amount of time, it can be a certain event like a sale, it could be a reasonzoning, something like that is something you can consider, you know, when looking at the duration of the permit. >> And then the district confirms the zoning regulation
zoning regulations. >> That's the zoning district, correct? >> Nothing for storage business. I mean, that's not listed as a, you know, permitted or conditionally permitted list. It's an interim use. So,
I mean, you'd have to determine is this an appropriate interim use of the property. Um, it's not a permitted use nor a conditional use. It's that interim use. >> Looks like where the boats are is clear land and then it's surrounded by woods.
So, the where the boats are in clear the um on I would say this back sorry not tall enough to reach it. That was always clear. What has from explain where we No, absolutely not.
>> No, no, we don't. We don't want to visit there. >> No, I know. I >> You are the spouse. >> Yes. But I can point some of these out because I know she's >> No, I was just curious. Taking out more trees. >> No, absolutely not. And really the only
trees that were taken out was this area where you see and it's all buckthorn obviously the garbage when we got there then gone had a uh garden up there that kind of grew everything and it was great but that really wasn't something you're
looking to continue farming gardening. However, so that's pretty much the only removal of anything that was there. It was basically thrown and junk and a lot of things. So, and the rest is just and even and she's talking about the
renters. He's an arborist. He went and spent his own money to treat the ashboard trees. >> So, we need to have this video recorded at this testimony. >> So, he spent his own money for no reason to treat the trees and I would have probably not done that, but he used his
own guide. So, um yeah, it's all him should go on, what shouldn't go. That's it. Um because I had a dumpster that didn't get called away from the previous owner. So I drove by her many times during this. So just coincidentally anyway um
was when something like this happens it seemed like there might have been some waste that needed to be disposed of like questionable liquids and things that might have existed on the from the previous business. Do we have to worry about any of those things in the
transfer of this or the remediation >> garbage trucks? You think >> like oil or I mean we never >> Yeah, we never cleaned up any oils or liquids out of there that we saw. I will say they they did a pretty good job
cleaning up the sales before um before they finally fell off I should say. Um it gives no impact because you're right. We sell constant things and we're like oh awesome. So we spent a tremendous
amount of time we saw my present for that. So our horses >> no um we actually speaking of this we've actually contacted Minnesota DNR. and they've been out walking the property with us and we just said, "Hey, come tell us tell us about the trees, tell us
about stuff um because there is good out there. We've been in talks with them um like how we pursue this fair." We have absolutely no desire to expand this to take anything out and that we in fact um so Mark Mason lives in that little jet
area who um unfortunately couldn't make it tonight. Um his property right there is about a third of an acre. if he ever wanted to expand that is something that's non-compliance if he want to do an expansion. We have gotten say in talks with him this is kind of probably the only change
um that if at some point in time would we sell some land so we could become compliant and the answer is absolutely yes we'll figure it out just let us know. So, we had a lot of preliminary discussions on that with that. And as of right now, um the only change to that
u and then sorry to jump back because I know there's some questions about our marketing. Um again, please Facebook business with Amazon. That's just anformational posting that actually business. Um and again we have them and
we have no intention whatever nor do we have to do any repair or and I don't want to take that away from our which is the right famil
I I want to emphasize that um throughout the process everything we've been absolutely told to do have um our blue means a lot to us. We spend a lot of time building um that reputation
throughout the community and and we kind of you know we know that's how we can help you. So we're really truly sticking to it and we say if you have questions call us reach out to us. We're more than willing to have a conversation with people. Um just a few other quick things
and I think we've done I know there's a a comment on about property values. I actually went and took I went quite a ways off Sunnyfield Road east all the way through Sunnyfield road and I did all being circle property value over the
last year about 66% there the state average is 2.4%. So I don't and I know that multiple properties I've sold very close to multiple operations why people were operating there. So, I really don't think that
>> that's going to be an issue. These are additional photos. I know >> I think I think it seems >> neutral. Anybody else need to see any more >> in regard to the screening? I question regards to having ordinances in the city
regarding I think it was that potentially mentioned and drawing attention to those. I mean, so stacking wood is one way, but I think covering with dirt, I think be ideal and finding some trees to increase the height. You know, I think that was the main thing that came up in the last meeting was, you know, how do I look at sight, out of
mind in my opinion, you can't hear it, can't see it, and I think there's a path forward that way, a small picture was very small. You're not going to be much. >> We have a larger B, which people don't
want to look at. And um that's what I have pictures of too cuz most of this as you guys can tell this is in the you can't see anything in the summer in winter when leaves fall issues. Um so here let me grab
this is um heading south. >> You can kind of see that this is the at all. >> And you said that the neighbors would not allow you to see the view that they see to validate what they're seeing. Is that true statement? >> I'd like
us to come over discussions like point out to us where your contention points are so we can then go back and say, "Okay, it's here on the property." Otherwise, we're just we're guessing. Well, I think it's fair if you're trying to make amends to try to hide it so they don't see it and use their their needs
still get what you want. I think that'd be fair to try to work together and figure out is it possible? It's not. >> Okay, I'm all in all I'm going to cut you guys off. We've heard quite a bit and I think you've made your statements. That's what you want to see or hear rather. I want to hear if there's
anybody else who has a pro or con position on this. Let's have that come to the public hearing. >> Thank you. approach the podium if you want to be heard. >> Go ahead. >> Well, my name is Bob Christians.
I live at 6440 Cedar Court in North Saunders. Uh we used to live over on Hallstead Bay, but uh the reason I'm here is I I I need to share some things with you. as being on the board of directors for the West Tanka Community Commerce, which now we
refer to as Connect West Tanka. Uh, and having being lived here in the area since 1989, uh, our mission is to support our local businesses. And I would like to share just a couple
of things with you pertaining to and also being on directors for the West Saka Connect West Saka. There are so many events that we're involved in from the Spirit of the Lakes, Incredible Festival, food shelf, all these things
that are involved. Thank God for Kelly and Steve. The participation and the generosity they give to this community is unbelievable. Unbelievable. And I don't know, you know, with all what has happened, it surprised me and I'm
shocked to see what has taken place here for whatever reason. But please, between you, the city, and them, let's figure out how to make it work. Okay? We need to figure out how to make it work. They're a tremendous asset to our
community. If you don't believe me, just ask all the people that are on the border operate all these different operations that we have. Sorry. Thank you very much. That's all I want to say. They're they're >> okay.
>> I think that gentleman was next. >> Oh, it's >> either one. >> Thank you. My name is Paul. So, this is 1999. >> You said Paul.
>> Well, it's also busy. a 63 75 63 85 74 road. Okay. >> I've heard a lot of things about the character of people and everything. But the fact is a lot of irrelevant. There
are rules. >> Sorry. >> And a lot of these things are irrelevant that I've heard. The fact is they're rules. The rules are set by you, >> right? >> On behalf of me, right? And either you decide to follow the rules or not follow
the groups. And if I just trust I'm going to follow the groups. >> That's it. >> Thank you. That's great. >> Thank you verybody from Okay, dear. This poor lady I want to hear because she's twice.
>> We want you to get up a couple more times. >> That's cowpie. I live at 5107 Minneapolis Avenue. Um, I won't get too much into detail on the personal side because I know it's been mentioned that there are rules and stuff like that, but I do feel like it's important to mention
that I'm a neighbor and also a customer. Um, our kids go to school together, they're in sports together. So, I just wanted to attest to their character and also just being a customer of over 10 years, I can attest that they're very honest with me and I've always been pleased with their services. And from a
customer standpoint, it's very nice to have um a local option for our boat. Um >> where were they when you were a customer for 10 years? >> Well, my husband was So I'm representing me and my husband, so I can't remember all their locations,
>> but it wasn't this location. >> No. Well, no, right here. Um uh so anyway, they are kind, generous, and honest people who are always willing to lend a helping hand. They're always volunteering at the school. They're very
involved in the community, giving back to the community. They also provide are providing jobs in our community, which I think is important to know. Um, and they just genuinely love our community and care about it. They have young kids who have a vested interest in seeing the
community thrive. They're not just here to make a mess and leave. Um, so I know there are rules and it sounds like they may have been misled and things like that when they purchased property. It also sounds like um they have heard
concerns and tried to address those concerns. Um so if there's any way to um kind of make it work, there's lots of people in the community who love to see their business thrive. Um and yeah, we
need business. Thank you. >> Thank you. I took took the time to come today. Might as well speak. Okay. Uh Andy Ferrara, 5780 Sunny Brook Lane. I moved to the community in 2019. Didn't know a
soul. Uh spend my summers bike riding uh through Game Farm and Sunnyfield. Um honestly had to go out of my way to find out where this facility is that's wreaking so much havoc on the community. Uh, not only do I support small to
mid-size business owners, I support competition, uh, and fair pricing. And I think that's what, you know, this is we're all we're talking about right now. Um, what else can I add on here? I didn't know a soul when I moved to the
community. Um, met the Coins through uh, sports. My 8-year-old and their 8-year-old are friends. Uh, and they are very generous. I know there are rules. Uh but there's also common sense and if someone was operating a garbage business out of this
uh location, one would think you would probably be able to manage a boat business out of this location. So >> let's not forget common sense and and if you do know the >> they're not shy people. If you have a
disagreement with them, they are open to hearing both sides of the story. So, I've never really had any sort of issue getting hold of them. Um, it's all I had to say. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right.
Unless there's a ground swell of resistance, I'm going to close the public hearing. One more person. Here we go. >> Hi, my name is Jody Anderson, 6501 West Branch Road, and I got a letter and that's how I found out about this.
>> Okay. And uh I'm familiar with the garbage company that was there and it was an it was ugly and but it was there you know and we are in agriculture. It was an established business. Now I I
don't know the con. I just met them five minutes before we started. Um I see this as an upgrade to the neighborhood. I see this as uh business like I I am in support of
business as long as they are following you know I don't want to see oil you know get into the the water system the wershed system you know I don't want that but if they are doing everything within the means of putting our
agricultural area right and chemical free I I don't see a problem. I have no issue. The character is great. I don't know how but you know that's great and I love that they're putting back into the community.
It sounds like that's wonderful. I think that's something that you know versus people who live, you know, 50 miles away and have a business in our area and don't do anything within our, you know, our area. So I am in favor from what I
can see as long as guidelines are being followed and that things aren't going into our you know water public hearing at 86. Um some questions. >> You have questions? Um,
>> I just have a couple questions in regards to how the garbage company, how many I missed that from the last meeting. How long were they there for? >> Yes. Question. >> Right. So, we're moving into our discussion perfectly. You can ask that question. >> I don't know how long.
>> Yeah. I mean, okay. So, one of the things you need to understand, we're not comparing it to the garbage company. Forget about the garbage company because this is a whole new IUP request. So, it's a request for a whole new IP. >> It's a Yes. Got it. And they're they're they're not they they're they're not
grandfathered in if they wanted to do a garbage company. They may not have even been um grandfathered in for that. There's a whole lot of other legalities that you're not aware of, but this is an IUP for a boat storage. It's not um compared to the garbage company
>> and it's just storage forever more, not auto maintenance. >> Yeah. until there's another item. I think it's an upgrade from what it was before and so I >> well what it was before was >> preceded even zoning codes apparently
way back >> and now the question is really any part of our discussion about >> no I mean yeah >> but wanting to reestablish it as an agricultural area that's one of the questions on on the floor is do we want to say
whatever pathways we've been down we're wanting to either revisit that or back up and go back to the zoning which is on the books as an agricultural area. >> Am I correct that this could be brought to us five years from now if sold and
potentially be designated for high high density housing? >> I mean if if the land owner wanted to make the request the city would consider it. I mean I not sure that that would be a logical ask but I mean a lot can change. >> Sounds like we've changed all our
agricultural other areas for housing. It wouldn't be high density, but it could be a house >> about this small business taking up nature through a plant. Would you rather have that for 50 years or
>> 60 houses? That's 40 acres as a different issue. This is I've never had I've never seen a CP with this many. We have 18 people >> IP, sorry, direct neighbors or Cole's neighbors saying they don't houses in our neighborhood.
>> I mean, I view it as I mean the neighborhood has rights >> and these I mean these guys seem like amazing people exact kind of business you want in your community. It's not >> they're discussing. I'm sorry, but >> they I get that this is the kind of we
want in our city. I don't think that's what's in question. I think what's in question is does it come in the cost of the rights of the people that are in the neighborhood already? >> It's already there. >> They because they didn't have the opportunity to say no to it. It was not
they didn't ask. Like if you if this business moved into my neighborhood, that's your bottom dollar. I'm in here saying I do not want this in my neighborhood. I would make sure it wasn't in because I don't want traffic. I don't want I don't want all these things. I mean, there's there's horses living next door. I just drove by this
place. If I have a horse, I do not want this next to it. Horses are this is this is what agricultural land is for. I I think you guys are I think feel like these guys are in a really tough position and that really stinks. And I
feel like they got sold a bill of goods and that's that stinks. But that is not the fault of all the people that live around them. And that's what that that's that's the choice that we're making with the give this summit. We're saying none of those residents get to decide how
their neighborhood >> is coming under a legal decision whether or not there's a transferable >> well and it's trusted at this point. So what I would say is I would give them improve improve it based on lots of requirements firms approval from the neighbors as far
as the sight lines OSHA requirements on a regular basis. Um and then obviously validating whether or not it carries over from one point or the other before you can make any yes or no. >> Does it feel like there's going to be anything like those?
>> It could be a farm with a bunch of big gray buildings. It could be a bunch of tractors. It could be a lot of things property under the impression that they could continue it. I think it's a legal thing that needs to be decided before we make any consultation whether or not >> its
needy was. >> So we should make a motion on that. economic to improvement based on the fact that they and we can all address these both OSHA requirements required to have no dumping required to have the appropriate BMS and hindrances from
people who have view it um and most of the normal areas that you'd expect. Um and then of course if the legal standpoint says that uh it was then it would be approved. If not, if legal says no, it wasn't carried over on the purchase somewhere. if there's another lawsuit there um for false
representation or something I would I would guess but based on what I've seen today I would based on those things >> I think we made some suggestions last time application was withdrawn from city council here we are again >> we made
to meet the standards of what they about ital. >> One thing I'd like to point out, I don't want to place pressure on you, but um the IEP, if the IP gets approved, the lawsuit will go away. You don't have a
dispute with them anymore. >> That's not why you approve it to make the lawsuit go away. >> Oh, you do have the right to say based on the how the lawsuit does go, it does come out that they have >> No, you got to decide this now. No, you don't have any time to wait. >> No,
>> basically. That's not what we were told by her. I want you to >> She's our council. She's an attorney. >> That's fine. Can I hear what she has to say to her counel? >> No. >> Why not? >> Because we have our attorney telling you from the city's perspective.
>> Perspective, but not law. >> It is. >> It is law. >> She's our lawyer >> perspective. It has to go through a court system to determine if that's fashion. If you're making an argument, that's one thing, but having a court of judge decide on that is not. >> Mr. Chair, members of the commission,
the lawsuit is currently pending. We had a mediation to try to settle the lawsuit. Out of the mediation, they said tried to settle this by having them apply for an IEP because the previous one was withdrawn. That's what they did. They applied for the IEP under the
60-day rule and it's statute 1599. we have to act on the IEP within 60 days or it is deemed approved. We can do another 60-day extension, but that's it. So, we can't just table it until the lawsuit is over and see what happens. We we have a
timeline. We have to go follow under the law and um you know, it could get approved if we just sit on it. >> They don't have the right to validate whether it's a legal purchase or not before they even come. If we deny the lawsuit continue,
>> correct? >> Right. >> So, I make a motion to recommend the city deny the requested based on >> Yeah, we have two motions here. We should um So, is there a second on Mr. Gangstead's motion? >> There's motions on the table.
So there's a motion on the table. I have to So there's >> is there a second to that motion? >> All right. And Sarah or Lindsay was closing. Sarah, >> then I would make a motion to recommend
the city council deny their requested based on the fact that based on certain time you get back to a new list. >> Yeah. I mean, you need to establish reasons as to why you would deny it >> based on um it not being a fit. It does not the use does not conform to the
zoning regulations or the neighborhood doesn't. >> Okay, I'll second that. >> Any further discussion? >> Call for the vote. I just feel like in the things that we've heard from the people that have written in there hasn't
been a proposed solution and a lot of times when we have these discussions we hear from the neighbors about what they actually would like. So I feel like that's a huge gap personally in approving either of these motions because I don't know if she stood on his
land if he approved that. all he wants is some different trees like if that would help like it seems like what we would do for solar panels or what we would do for you know other things that come before the board or the the council. So to me it seems like there's
still another round of questions from what would make people happy because if that does make those people happy then we can approve it. It's fine. But >> so I think part of this is the fact that we you weren't here. We went this last conversation. So apologize.
>> No, it's fine. And you know, >> we did have those conversations. >> Point though. >> Yeah. I don't disagree. It's a valid point, but we had those conversations. And again, I think it comes down to the fact that they came into the situation with expectations that weren't were
>> people back then say, "I'd love to see more trees. This room is great." Or did they say, "I just don't know." I think a lot of it arose around just the visuals on it and some of the the traffic involvement and safety issues. a lot of things that you read in the my mind some of that stuffable
with the current usage of >> that resonated with me was the traffic is the highest during like open window when you're trying to go outside you know >> so the the conversation was more and I I agree with you usually we do have this
back and forth situation work during the day people start There are trucks I wake up and wake me up every morning, right? I mean, recycling brings me up every time I come. So, >> but there's 200 boats and they come and
go from storage. That's two. Well, don't you bring the trailer back like you bring the boat to the water and then you bring the trailer back >> start. >> It's up to you as the commission if you want it. adding. >> Um, yeah, Mr. Chair and members of the commission, I'd recommend a few more
findings just because neighborhood opposition, although it can be a finding, it can't be your only finding. And that was one I wrote down. Um, I did write down um, one related to not conforming with the zoning regulations and the traffic being high during
certain seasons and then that there's 100 votes coming and going. >> Okay. And then you might >> do we have any information on the traffic because I I read the garbage trucks we like 30 or 40,000 pounds that's empty or full or whatever. I
think that's like less than half or more than half double the weight of what a boat or truck would be. So I don't think the traffic is really well. So
we can have the condition um there isn't a termination that >> we can set that when they sell the property >> there was not given the in the permit >> no we would set that I would set that as prior is
um >> the factors of noise glare for vibration notes and I know that the the applicant said that those things are not not true but the that seems to be a different
perspective than the resident >> and certainly the surrounding properties >> and surrounding properties is another one we can add and then it's inconsistent with the city's comprehensive and
and there is some sensitivity the activities have some sensitive environment. >> Yeah, but these are the reasons why >> I wouldn't say that's a problem. If you have 60 homes there, you'd have the same concerns with all the cars and oil less and tractors and everything else that
they would start on the property. So >> the option of 60 homes is not on the table. >> We don't approve this potentially be sold to >> if we don't approve it. >> Are we good? >> Yes.
>> Yeah, I think you've listed enough. >> Yes. Yes. I mean, it's a motion and a second. So, um, yes, there can be a vote in favor then. >> Motion. >> Yep. So, yeah. Vote on it. Yeah. >> More. What do you have down there, Nick?
>> Um, we have traffic. Um, we have the environmental concerns. Um, we have the lack of consistency with the comprehensive plan and the zoning. Um, those were the the points that I wrote down. Um, TRA. So,
>> and then So the word is motion not >> to to deny it based on those findings. >> That's what's on the table is a motion to recommend denial by the city council based on the findings you've established.
All in favor? I >> Who's four to two? >> Lind say you voted help. I Okay, so um then you have to list um Trisha Taylor and Sack.
Thanks. Thank you. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, that's a recommendation. and it will be forwarded to the city council um for final action >> and it'll be 18. I think that's also scheduled for 18th and we'll have um it
won't be under consent >> I understand in this meeting that's very exciting >> the attorney attorney that city staff did recommend it and another approved exact same
How did we last? square was the one section was a different >> fine. Excuse me. Can we clear the room, please? 100 books. How are you going to
have trucks, they have RVs, they have trailers, they have boats, >> right? >> Hey, um yeah, it's um Jump back on track here, please. >> We always were on record.
>> Next item is staff, right? >> Yeah. Um trying to think of what I got for you guys. Um I mean, quite a bit was here tonight. Um we need more.
>> Yeah, I'm not keep it basic. I'm I'm uh not anticipating a meeting for February. Our deadline was last Friday and we uh did not get anything. Um so unless something more procedural comes up that maybe doesn't require a hearing or something like that, um we could look to
to have a meeting, but I'll keep you posted on that. Um trying to think back to November. I mean, I I believe everything that was on our agenda in November ultimately did go through um and get approved. um trying to think of what was on that agenda but
uh yeah I mean I don't have a lot other than that like >> correct yes um that we the council starts at 6:30 so we wanted to align with that to avoid confusion amongst
um we kept that at six um >> yeah I mean the conditional use permit and the two variances I I think was what was on our agenda. Um those all ultimately were approved. So >> um we just started the new year, so not a whole lot. Um in December we had our
tree lighting event. It was really cold, but um and we had fantastic fireworks. So if you >> Yeah, they were really really good. So if you uh missed it, are coming this year. Um we are going to have it again.
Uh we had a lot of um participation. Um the uh Lions had their wine and beer sale and that was great. And um >> great. >> Yeah, it was really good. Um wonderful
fires, etc. bonfires. Um and then uh in December we passed our budget and our levy and um so just so you know there's the budget and then there's a levy. The levy is amount that is then divided up amongst all the
property owners and um it's usually less than what the budget is because the budget consists of a lot of other things and we have other revenues coming in. And then um so we had about a 9.42% levy increase. Um part of that is just
we're a growing community. We need more um police officers, you know, more public works, etc., etc. Um and then um trying to think of some of the other things. Uh it was pretty light and then in so far this year it's been pretty
light. We we are looking we did award the contract for the water treatment plant. One of the big discussions we had last year basically for several months um ongoing was our water rates and they are going up significantly and it's
because of the water treatment plant and that's why we really would like to see a few more rooftops to help um help pay for the new water treatment plant. We're also um looking uh we're trying to get bonding money from the state. We've
asked for $14 million, which is about half of what the total cost is going to be. Uh we don't know for sure. Um we we've been working with our um senator um and Johnson Stewart and with our representative Andrew Meyers and uh we
will continue to work with them along with some other um influential uh people at the capital at the state capital here. And then um we did receive um $1,92,000 from uh the feds um thanks to Amy
Cloverar. She was able to um get us that for this uh for this project. With that comes some caveats. If you use it for construction, then you have to go through a whole bunch of other steps. So when I talked to her staff, I said, "Well, sometimes it's not even worth
taking the money because by the time you have to do all this other stuff, you have to buy us, you have to do this, you have it." It's a long story, but anyhow, they said actually we could possibly use it for engineering and or for construction management. So that's
that's huge. So that's if we can because the engineering is not cheap. It's over a million dollars. And so if we can use it to offset that and or the project management fee that'll that'll be a help too. So it's um um we were very thankful
for that. The other thing is um we're we're going to do a um a joint meeting with uh St. Bonnie Council. So we'll have an interest to council St. Bonnie Council. We're going to be talking about a number of different things. number one um emergency water inconnects and how
that will work and what that will cost and so on. And then they've also requested that we take a look at and consider there's a little tiny sliver piece of land that's wholly surrounded by St. Bonnie that's actually Minatrista and so maybe we can negotiate and work
something out and be good neighbors. And then um so we're going to have a also a um strategic planning session the end of February kind of set our goals. One of the things that I would like to see and that's to be determined by the council is I'd like to be a part of so far we've
been a part of the highway 7 safety coalition um in improvements and um I've met with Mindot number of different times and I've talked to them about our needs and some of the things that they've been looking at and one of the
things I've mentioned is uh future developments and access to Highway 7. That is going to be one of our big issues and as you found out tonight that is something that that will have to be addressed >> like go all over. >> Yeah. And so so we'll be doing that. Um
and um going you know going forward with that if there's some other right now that's all I can think of. It's a lot of person as well. >> We actually um you should be getting some information real soon because um
with our water engineering group they um they were awarded a contract to do um exactly that um you know distribute information um in multiple different ways. So yeah,
>> and I wasn't talk last time we met about the billing >> monthly or quarterly or maybe allowing customers to pay. >> We are we are going to be going to monthly billing. It probably won't happen until June or July um just
because of of how it has to transition. So we we've talked about that and we are on track to do that. The council has given staff direction that this is what we want to do. We also feel it is important because with the higher water rates then you can manage your budgets.
>> It's going to look a little less intense. >> It's will out the year like they do with like >> No, no, they >> No, it'll just be on a um on a monthly basis. >> It'll be what we see. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> When you live it look different.
>> Yeah. Um, so yeah. Any other questions? They should be breaking ground this spring for the water treatment plant. The wells have already been um drilled, my understanding. They're just kind of waiting to be then brought online or
whatever. Um, so there's two new wells in that water treatment plant right in Woodland Cove and that'll all be piped into our current system. Any other questions? So, how does one go about anything personal for their irrigation? So, I'm just ask
>> through the state. >> It's through the state. >> Access. >> Well, what you have what they do is they look at how many wells are in the area and what what kind of wells they are. And so, um like this gentleman tonight,
he's concerned because his well might be close. Well, we won't be drilling any new city wells close to his, but if you wanted to drill, but let's just say we had 100 people come in wanting to drink uh drill their private wells, I don't
think that's I don't think you can. Number one, I think that's against city ordinance because obviously why would we be in why would we be putting in millions and millions and millions of dollars in infrastructure just to allow you to opt out? Yeah, but I mean I do
opt out for irrigation. >> Yeah, right. >> I tell you what, you can argue that with with >> I'm trying to I'm trying to reduce my load on >> No, you're such a nice guy.
>> The only other way you could do it is if you used your um storm water ponds for irrigation and then and you'd have to pipe you could pipe it in. then you know it'd be retrofitting it which would be very expensive but >> rain.
Yeah. And you can get rain barrels. >> Yeah. Rainbow works great but it's really hard to get out. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. That's it. >> I just don't think you could personally drill a well in your yard for your Yeah.
>> It's I mean if city water is available I would doubt they would give it to you. >> Yeah. Yeah, just making that. >> But but if Hunter Crest wanted to or Turtle Creek wanted to use their storm water, go ahead >> and retrofit it, you could you could
request that. Um it might be an option, but it would be very expensive. >> Yeah. >> Yep. Right. >> All the motion to >> Yes, absolutely. Second. >> Um, I showed a great one.
>> Third times where we've had someone come before us and say, "Well, what's going to happen next? I just