--------- all right it is 7:00 so I'm going to call the meeting to order this is the regular city council meeting of February 18th uh 2025 for the city of Minista first of all I want to welcome all of you that are here this evening at all for a reminder if you have phones please
put in them on silent so they don't disrupt the meeting and next please join me for pledge of allegiance iedge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to for
stands andice for all so um I'm going to start with introductions I'm Lisa I'm the mayor and to my left our council members Kathleen rein Peter vickory B Aly and Brian govern and then on the end we have our
city engineer Ellis Andy with w and in the back she's taking pictures we have Alie Fus who is our assistant administrator and then to my right we have Jer K who is our city administrator and then we have several empty seats some of them joining us via um satellite
or Internet or whatever that's called and and then we have um Ron baby is with Kennedy andman thank you Becky is our attorney and he's sitting in for um Sarah sansal tonight who is um normally here and then we have
our chief of police Paul Paul and with that I'll move to um the agenda are there any changes or additions to the agenda if not is there a motion to approve the agenda as presented thank you Mr R is there a second thank you Mr
Victory any further questions hear none all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed motion pass 5 so the special presentation and I'm sure that's why you all are here this evening is to swear in one of our new police officers
so first I'm going to hand it over to Chief Falls and then I'm going to ask the new officer Aon to come forward and I will then give you the old of office thank you mad mayor and Council uh it's always an honor and a pleasure to SAR in a new officer and I think this position
is is especially uh exciting for us because it's an addition this is our number Aon is our number 15 15th officer which we have been looking for for a couple of years and so it's important to us that we find someone that's the right
fit for our agency and uh see that absolutely see that in officer Aaron gness so we're excited tonight to have him join our team so I'll begin by reading some information about Aaron and then we'll call you forward here in just a little bit so bear with me officer
Garen gettis Aon gettis began employment with the city of Minista on January 8 25 offer gtis has several years of law enforcement experience uh most importantly officer GIS was actually a volunteer Reserve officer with the manri public safety
department from 2009 till 2012 off get has worked as a deputy sheriff at the dun County sheriff's office in North Dakota January 2013 until April of 2016 officer GIS worked as a patrol officer for the West tenan Public Safety
department just next door to us from April 16 2016 until March of 2021 Al G left law enforcement career in aviation as a pilot for a short time before joining our agency in January off
gness also has been a skills instructor at northan Community College from 2022 to present so as you can tell he has a lot of experience which we're very happy about Al gettas graduated from St col State University with a bachelor's degree in criminal justice
officer vtis is currently completing field training and will be assigned to a patrol shift here very very shortly so as you all know it's you know it's a difficult job to hire an officer you need to find the right person and I'm very confident we've done that in addition to that it's even harder to
find an officer that has the level of experience that Aaron has and so we're super excited to have him here on our team I know a number of times when he was a volunteer we talked about this day and uh it just never really worked out for us and we're so happy that have so
with that I'd like to call Mayor wh and officer get to the I I will say too that we are very um fortunate to have somebody with your skill level and also your expertise and experience to come on board be part of our team we really really appreciate and
really are looking forward to many having you here for many years to come so [Laughter] with can that Me On My Honor as a member of the Mina Public Safety department member of the Min
public saf Department I will uphold the mission mission of the department by fighting crime by fighting crime and promoting safety promoting safety I will uphold my badge my bad my Integrity my
Integrity my character my character and the public trust and the public trust I will uphold the Constitution I will uphold the Constitution of the United States of America the United States of America the laws of the state of Minesota law of statea the values of the
community and the policies of our department and policies of our department so that guys talk thank you than you're all right so uh we have consent agenda items are there any you wish to
remove otherwise they will consist of a approve our work session regular meeting minutes from February 3rd 2025 approve our city council regular meeting minutes from February 3rd 202 C is approve our claims D is approve
authorized execution of a previous pavement agreement at 3403 Kings Point Road and E is authorized the purchase of a trailer for the infrared asphalt heater and F is accept the bids and award the contract for well number seven
Rehabilitation improvements which is city project number 0225 are there any wish any ones we don't have to discuss then um is there a motion to approve consent agenda items a through half so thank you m Lacy is
there a second second thank you Mr C further questions BR none all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed motion passes by vot next we move on to we have no public hearings this evening uh so we're going to move on to
business items and first business item is receiving the bids for the 2025 Street Improvement projects these are City projects 01- thank you mayor wh members of council um this evening just a couple items regarding the 2025 project um the first
memo in your packet is for informational purposes um it provides a summary of the bids um that were received for the project um and I'll kind of weave that into the second um item with relation to the 2025 project um and that is to
declare the cost to be assessed in order of the preparation of post assessments and call for the public hearing so the 2025 project just a quick here um just a quick background there are three project areas
within this year's project uh these are all reation projects Windridge Trail Ro residential area off County 110 time Circle off C Road 44 and the trillum area between 44 and L
we did pourings for these areas to confirm M the the project type um and uh we provided that information in um in past okay the existing conditions here
we have sorry about that there's there we go okay so some photos of the existing streets um the Pine Circle built in in 1973 uh we're seeing a lot of cracks and poles through that uh trillum area built
in 1994 um the issue in the Trum area is the bond um the bonding material to the agregate within the payment um it is no longer um we're no longer getting that
Bond the payments deteriorating and then on the brige trail bu through approximately 95 base layer pavement is so we uh the project is been as a full depth Reclamation where you take that
pavement um it's pulverized or ground up it's Blended in with the portion of the underlying gravel in the insting roadway uh then that that material is act to the new base so it's it's bled packed um and
then the pavement is placed on top so these are uh some streets that have been done uh previously a Reclamation project to Shane Lane back in 2019 and St bridge in 2021 the street width would re would remain the same uh we are M we matched
the exis street grades to the there's there's a few areas where we smooth out grade but for the most part uh folks can expect to see what's there now is is what would here after this project we'll be doing spot curb and better repair and
Trillium not a huge amount doing an aggregate shoulder on literage and then removing and replacing that Island Circle we have very little utility improvements there's a couple sanitary sewer manholes in the TR pardon me on
time that will get uh infl and infiltration barriers put in there to keep the groundw under the sanitary sewer system and then valve work in the Trum area one um is a replacement of the existing valve that's leaking and then installing some valves um so that public
work better isolate the system should there be a Break um so that we can minimize the amount of customers that would be out water situation okay so the cost um so this is where I'm kind of blending that first informational memo into the components
of the 429 process so we had a bid opening uh earlier this month we received nine bids so that's excellent congratulations to the Council on receiving um that number of bids um and we got uh aste Asphalt Services
Technology Corporation um is a little better this contractor was the uh the contractor that did the North arm project back in 2023 we had great success with that project we're looking forward to working
with them again and I've also included um in the presentation and also in the package just a breakdown of where we've been at for both the the budget um feasibility numbers pre- bid estimates that sort of thing and then as it was bid so the the bid amount that was
included in that first memo of 9986000 change um that's the the bid amount that's submitted by the contractor and then we add on 5% contingency because with construction things come up um so we include that 5%
contingency in the total project cost and then also add 20% indirect cost to cover the engineering design and and that's some inspection cost here too so this is a summary of where we're at for the different components of the project
um and then later on I'll go through where the funding as proposed um one component of the funding for this project is Minnesota state statutes 429 which is special uh special assessments where a portion of the
project cost would be specially assessed to the properties that would benefit from the project um so uh with the exception of WID Trail we would be looking to follow this the city's uh special assessment policy where 50% of
the street costs are assessed um and then the sewer and water uh improvements would be by the respective Utility Fund now with Windridge Trail um at the outset of this project we had a discussion with it being rural
residential in nature a large lot residential um we look to the 2022 special benefit analysis that was completed uh for uh there were a couple areas in 20120 the 2023 project
um where we wanted to get a special benefit analysis which basically looked at valuation of properties before and after the project and um based on the outcome of that that report U particularly with respect to North arm
um at that time the council settled on a recommendation within that report to have an assessment capped at $10,000 per unit and that was the direction provided Us Fall with respect to wage so we're continuing with that as
we move through the the 429 process and yes less than 50% correct um thank you for that uh so if if we look at how the actually the the bid price for wind brige was very close to the estimate the
the unit assessment on windage would actually be about 22,000 so okay that's so we're it's it's a significant change from this City's assessment policy there we so um this map shows the
assessment areas in blue so on the top left corner that's the wind R area it's a little small area kind of on the top right that's Pine Circle and then the bottom right is the tra area so using the um the number of
assessible units identified in the feasibility report and the bid prices including that 5% contingency 20% indirect here's uh the the preliminary assessment um compared to Theos final assessment um so you'll see at the
bottom there Windridge uh Circle actually stays the same again because of the the direction provided as far as um ping that assessment at 10,000 um and happy to report that the proposed final
assessments both for Pine Circle and Trillium are less than anticipation and the reason we're seeing this reduction is largely due to um one of them is actually the pap there's some paper driveways in both project areas
and in the estimates um we had a higher estimated cost for those because they are very labor intensive so we got some good pricing on that and then also the concrete curbing better um even though we're not replacing um lot of it
we did see some better pricing in both of those two project areas that brought these OS final assessment amounts um under what was originally U estimated with the feasibility and we'll talk about the assessments later in a little bit
certainly we can talk about them now if you'd like well just because a couple things um we have always rounded down from since we we don't put in 75 cents or whatever and then my question to the council is do we just want to make it
like for instance on Pine Circle um is it 5 5750 versus 5755 I mean it's just so odd numbers that's and same with um trilia making it 7950 versus 7953 that's
it's minuscule but it's just simpler I think 779 okay all right and then um okay we can certainly do that and I know there was um I think a question came up um earlier today I we would like to make
have a little bit of a discussion I I have called and asked about um there's one property in Windridge that is being same address um being um assessed twice it's a very odd
odd situation so I'll leave it to El thank you so um it's in the WID area what happened is there's it was originally platted as one lot and talking to the planning department um we're not sure what happened when it was
recorded at the county but the property is it's now under two parcel IDs at the county thank you so we're looking at parel six and seven here so parcel 7 uh is let's see that is uh 1.3 acres and
parcel 6 is 8.36 Acres um so when we looked at this um and this is how it was presented in the visibility study since there are two lots of record they were both included in the in the preliminary assessment they both have Frontage to
the road they don't really do they um six does it's it's small but there is there is not yeah but it's not it doesn't meet our Frontage requirement I don't think yeah so so the the discussion this evening um that staff
would like direction from the council is if you would like to see both parcel six and seven included in the assessment role now the the home the majority of the home lies within parcel parcel
six um but there is a portion of the home that's in parcel 7 so it's kind of a head scratch on how we got to this situation um and I can provide more information to the council at the assessment hearing if you'd like but if the council um after discussing this
evening has um a decision and Direction given to staff we could certainly um remove one of the parcels from the assessment Ro um my recommendation would be parcel seven because it's a smaller one smaller one yeah um and it doesn't
affect the assessment amount again because this assessment was capped at $10,000 per unit um it would just be that the city's portion of the project cost would then increase by $10,000 why would we treat that different than we treated the house on
trillian assing that b this can't be subdivided because our house already sits actually on a portion of of the seven mon so in other words they can't they can't sub divided because this is a 10 acre minimum
here so in these instances um you know talking to the planning department in order for them if if they had combined it in our one tax ID um we wouldn't be in this situation and we're not sure why there was a split between those two properties to begin with um we
think it had something to do with um the school district boundaries um I was looking at well as funny as it sounds I was looking at because we were trying to figure out what happened through here and I was looking at the hen County half section
apps which has the delineation between School District boundaries and by coincidence or perhaps the reason why it split like that is the School District boundary follows that line that common line between parcel six and
that's just that's point we don't have much to go have you spoken with we haven't um we haven't spoken to the property owner uh so certainly the first public hearing notice was sent to
the property owner so in this instance they would have received two so it's unclear whether they thought it was a mistake that they got two or were they just like y we have two properties we get assessed twice so we have not reached out see it's the same address that's the other weird thing it's not
like two different addresses are it's two PS but it's same address so maybe they yeah but I I just don't know so the other thing is you have to look at the evaluation and does it increase Lot
number seven by 10,000 and lot number six by 10,000 when all the other ones are increased by 10,000 and they're you know what I'm saying the size of those lots are much bigger than seven so when you look
at what we're assessing I think it would be an over assessment basically yeah I had a discussion of the planning department again today about this situation and if the if you have the example that the house is removed so
you you now eliminated that you know you have a house that's partially on parel six and partially on parel 7 we had that discussion of is is parcel 7 a lot of record that has build right well the
other thing too when you think about it um a small lot like that they have to have a SE their own private septic system and they have to have their own well and then there's also and you have to have those separated by certain distances so it would be pretty tight to
do a house with a septic and a well in a 1.2 acre lot well but the issue is whether or not it's a separate property and it's not corrent well no they have two tax statements they get two tax statements on it so it is a separate property which would be what we did with
trillian that it's a separate lot the difference with Trillium is they could build today without taking down any houses they could build another house on that second lot and they could come before us and say our houses on both Lo we want to move the line both put house on there and we would probably
say yes we would do that with then this time us l seven would be even smaller but that's that's that's irrelevant it's whether or not what are other practices on the same project I mean the assessment is huge I
mean that's that's what we wanted to decide whether not we want to assess the same person twice but if someone else owned that property and just had a vacant lot we would assess them if it was buil even a vacant lot there we would assess it if it was
buil one your property is buildable and I think I mean I think we have to make if I may we may have to make contact with the property they could reconfigure the lot to basically split it in half to make it equal sizes too no they can't because it's a 10 acre minimum okay and
so if you combined six and seven and then wanted to split it into two lots neither one would be conforming in fact a highly deal that number six is is conforming if you look at it because the other ones are 10 for Lots
right so I I think that there's been some good discussion about this compared to the trill and paral um and the City attorney can certainly correct me if I'm wrong but one of the tasks asked of the council the even is to call for that assessment hearing and the way that the
package is um presented to the council for adoption um this this evening includes both of them and we could go back and do some further analysis as far as buildability on parcel six and 7 um notice it notice the assessment hearing
as it currently stands and then speak to the Property Owners prior to that assessment hearing kind of figure what out what's going on and at the assessment hearing the council could certainly um change the uh assessment
role at that um at that hearing to remove in this instance let's just say for example par Mr batty Madam mayor council I think that's a good idea I mean I don't know anything about this parcel other than what I've
heard in the last two minutes um you know I think the theory that it strad uh School District Lines is probably a good idea probably an explanation as to why it has two PS I've
seen that happened with Watershed districts and school districts so that might be exactly what it is that doesn't necessarily mean to me though it's two persons I think the accessibility is whether that's a separate developable parel I don't think we have enough
information right now I think the city engineer's idea is a good one keep it in for now even always drop it out you can't go the other way right um and again I would just say if a house sits on both those lots currently I don't
think we can say well but you could remove the house and then build on number six and on number seven I you know that's a lot of speculation me you know yeah so so mayor way I think in the interest of moving forward um if the
council's comfortable with with moving forward as presented uh staff would go back and do more research um with regards to the the split between Parcels six and seven um consult with the city attorney's office as necessary and then bring forward uh that recommendation and
clarification at the time of the assessment hearing um and we'd certainly talk to those to the resident in the meantime because we would be noticing both our um and then if you know perhaps this might be an opportunity to combine it into one tax ID um but they might not be
able to from a staff standpoint that would be ideal but we can C we have you know a month between now and the proposed assessment so we do have time to um do some more work on that okay thank you all right so we're looking at the
post Project funding as I as I mentioned so this is as it currently stands um within um with keeping both both Parcels within uh the Lage area both parcel six and seven we would have to Sol $500,000
specially assessed now certainly this number will go down based on the council's direction to round down the assessments on p a trillion to the nearest $100 so these these numbers will be um updated accordingly with the assessment
perod um so we're looking at the city's responsibility to be somewhere north of 300 pardon me $738,000 with somewhere south of $500,000 specially assessed um with a total project cost coming in at um $11.24
million and that includes both the contingency and who direct Cs and that includes the store or the other things that actually aren't being that's correct so um yeah we we bid them out as schedules BNC for the sewer water
improvements and those are um city respons um so here we are this evening February oh I have the 17th the 18th um well we're here to um ask the council to order the assessment hearing declare the cost to be assessed again the the the
cost to be assessed um is on the high side so we are conservative in this given the direction that council's provided this evening with regards to rounding down the assessments to the nearest $100 and then as well as that potential drop of one assessible parel
along Lage so um as it stands in the packet uh we would be recommending that the council receive the bids and call for the assessment hearing which would be held on March 17th to provide
sufficient time frame to notify the properties that are supposed to be assessed thank you and and just um one other thing that's in our packet we're talking about an assessment um for a 20-year period with an interest rate of 5.9% in our policy states that we charge
2% over um over our interest rate well the thing is is we're not bonding for this project so we don't really have any interests um per sa um in terms of bonding um so I'm just asking the now
obviously um if they prepay their their assessment we put it into an account and it does get some interest but I'm just wondering it seems to me kind of high if we don't have if we don't have that expense of interest on the project it
seems kind of high to me to to charge our residents 5.9% what let come before on something came lerri don't remember what what it was if it was and then the other thing is is we're just making an assumption on what
potentially the interest rate would be so I I'm a little bit Leary about charging 2% over an assumption yeah so the 2% um or the the interest rate rate was provided last week when when the council
amendment was drafted it will certainly be updated at the time the assessment was adopted if the council direct staff to um adjust that interest rate in the in the final assessment notice we can certainly certainly do so the the actual interest rate was
3.1 just charging the actual interest rate s the 2% greater if we don't have interest on the project I just don't feel comfortable charging our residents not only interest but then plus 2%
so I I'd be more comfortable okay so moving forward if we don't if we don't bond for a project and we assess that'll be the right yes we should probably incorporate that into our assessment policy yeah we'll just okay
take a look at it okay anything R well M what I was going to say is there is even if you're not bonding There's an opportunity cost because you're taking that money out of some pop because that you're presumably earning some interest on and and obviously Finance director
gets people better than I could but there is a cost there right and that's why we're still doing the 3 it's just right can we go back to the lcks for a second there's there's another vacant lot in that on that street this the same
property owners own two lots there too granted the second lot is substantially bigger at 6.5 Acres but the same person owns these two lots too so we're assessing them so they're they would have the same argument as the other one possibly like well it's a vacant lot yes
possibly build but the other one is buildable so whatever we decide I think it's two and three are the same owner as well but it's not just the same owner it's when you look at lot two it has the
required Frontage on the road and it's larger than 1.2 Acres so you can build on it and it doesn't have a house halfway across the the lot line well one been halfway across if you look at it it's the driveway it's basically the drive Drive the driveway's on it in a
tiny little Eve so it doesn't have I mean you'd have to bring this yeah and the driveway is here not over there but there I mean but there could be they could put a driveway there and do that if they all I'm saying is they have to take the house down in order to build on
that the lot but I'm just saying whatever we decide there is another vacant lot with the same home who getting the $20,000 just want to make sure everyone has that little p the second one that you're referring to I think that is closer to the same
situation as the trillion Bay one if I remember correctly it's Parcels 2 and three that are under so parcel if you look um just to the west of parcel 2 I believe that is also um own it's also
uh owned by the same owners of parcel 2 and I think I'll take a look and I'll include that in the assessment um memo in a month because I think it's a similar situation that for some reason it's pared off of the actual lot that shown
in the FL or and is under a separate PID but is actually quote unquote is the same the little the little corner there actually part of parcel two yes that's my understanding it's got a
sear and so that was not included the assessment because yeah so that's the differentiator there so I think it's it's due for a good explanation at the assessment gr so we can go and provide council with all the information for
consideration on what to include yeah and my guess is that parcel six and seven have never been combined maybe because of as Miss fski and also Mr B have mentioned because of the school might be but they also figure if we combine we
still can't subdivide we can't divide it because it won't meet our the 10 minimum that's the other thing so okay we'll go through we'll go through that all right all right school districts as so I think I
think we may have found the reason take as deep as we can um so with that uh the schedule that we're proposing um that at the next meeting meeting would be the assessment hearing for the council uh accepts bits and awards of contract and then we would be
looking at construction somewhere between June and September um we're still in a bidding season so we have not reached out to the contractor yet asking for a schedule uh what our experience has been is we usually wait till we get to the tail end of the bidding season which is usually
around March time frame um when the majority of eventss have been open uh to ask for a schedule at that point so that since since they will know what projects they'll be working on and have a better idea their schedule at that time so tonight you just want to accept the bids
not award the contract correct yeah correct we've typically gone and awarded the contract the same as the assessment perod I'm just in the event that know the council is hearing concerns with the assessments um we can certainly we can
split that off you can award the contract not t i don't have resolution available for you but we in the future you could certainly um have a word contract before the assessment hearing but we've just had pass practice
so that that public input is taken into consideration before we're in okay and do you generally let the contractor know that they were the lowest b or I mean or do they just kind of hang in limbo for a while so um so the bid opening well actually within
within the contract within the advertisement the contractors aware when the we anticipate the council will consider awarding the contract so they are aware of that um and and the the bids are good for leave in this instance we put 60 days you do have a two Monon
window um and that's that standard um from a lot of communities in the in the metro area do have that um lapse between the opening and work all right thank you all right any other questions
then hearing none is there a motion to accept the bids for the 2025 Street Improvement project city project 012 thank you m and Mr vicory made that second any further questions comments hearing none all
those in favor signify with i i all those oppos motion passes and then um there's a resolution to declare cost to be assessed ordering preparation of proposed assessments and call for the hearing so what I I just want to clarify
because we're really not declaring the cost because we don't know yet how we're going to deal with six and seven on Windridge do we just say um we're ordering preparation of the proposed assessment no you have to do the
cost I think this is the correct designation of the action yeah okay the cost can always come down I mean discussion we've had tonight but I like this title for resolution okay all right um so declare C to be assessed in
ordering the preparation of proposed assessments and call for the hearing on the proposed assess proposed assessments for the 25 Street Improvement projects and that um hearing will be on March 17th is there a motion to that effect so
thank you Mr Victory yes sir second second thank you Miss Lacy any further questions none all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed motion passes all right so that concludes our business
items and we have sta reports have one maybe two okay um I'll how about I do mine first it's it's kind of a question a discussion um point to get to possibly another meeting or maybe even Direction um so uh I think every
everybody's aware of the Farm Winery that received a a cup I don't know four months ago six months ago somewhere in that frame um it has come to light that there is a resident not the actual owner a neighbor who wants to have a wedding
there and staff is looking for direction either yes no or another option would be um a special event permit so then the neighbor Neighbors get to know so I'm uh I know a little bit of the details I don't know if uh
there's any direction or if there's more information needed we for the sake of them planning a wedding I think we need to kind of give them direction if they can do it or not if there's a process um we don't have one right now so couple things um so I got a call from a
resident that had heard about them and as you know we had a lot of residents here for the the up and um this Resident was concerned because now there's going to be a wedding and they were specifically given their cup um as a
Farm Winery only no on sale um no on-site sales and no event and now all of a sudden now they want to have an event having said that the people that want to um the young couple that want to have their wedding there um her
grandfather her mother and father and grand Long family history own the property they are the ones that sold it to to bury the current owner and so now she wants to get married and she would like to get married on this property
they live actually I think on Highland Road so they live in the area and um so she would like to get married on on her historical prop anyhow so um as
Jasper pointed out they so here's the thing anybody in the city can do an event you know 100 I mean obviously if it was every weekend it' be different they can do an event but they have to for the size of this event they do have to get a event permit because they're
talking about 300 guests um plus of course there's bride and groom and family and so so they would have to no matter where they were in the city they would have to get an event permit so I was talking with David earlier and he kind of dug into this and um he was
saying that you I so I said well if they did it I think couple things we' have to make it very clear this is it I mean it's not like come back to us in six months wanting to do another wedding um
so that would have to be clear and Crystal Clear um and then they would have to put certain um requirements on it which they would with an event permit anyway they might say on site parking only on no noise after and whatever
staff in and the police and whatever would have to work that out but the question here is do you want them to just do you want to say no uh which we we can because this cup doesn't include events do you want to say one time only
and that's it or do you want to save something else I think Des have wedding there and I have a really close friend that had two kids get married on her property in one year I mean I think we
say yes and then see how it goes and see how they treat their neighbors and not put anything I think we say yes say yes with with you know the normal event rules and no stre
Park such a and and and if I may the person who wants to do the wedding the way I understand it has reached out to the neighbors there's one neighbor out of those that have um gone against it everybody
else Express and I we don't know exactly what the sample size was but that's what we've been told um so generally I'm just there's a gentan here he didn't I didn't ask for Chistmas to be heard but if you
Mr I just have ack question can you just come up to the just um comment you had made and so if I wanted to have a 300 person event in my
backyard what would you normally do right then you would have to apply for an event permit and then we would put certain stipulations on it and um and then you can hold it okay so they want to inter
a 300 person event has neighbors wouldn't that apply right and that's what we're seeing yes so the only caveat is they can't continue having it's not a wedding venue don't have a
lot of friends no no but maybe I'll have Rong way in well you know again I don't know any this than what I've heard in the last few minutes you know I'm I'm seeing this uh as completely separate from conditional
use permited several of you were saying anybody can have an event whether it's a wedding or a graduation party or anything and if it goes over a certain threshold you have to get an event permit and Par and all those other things that seems to me like what
they're doing which is really kind of unrelated to the cup the cup suggests that there's a business so I think you're right about saying this isn't related to your cup you're not going to be in the wedding business correct but sounds to me like they should be able to
like everybody else get a special event permit for a special event right and again it's but most people don't do this on an annual basis or have multiple events every year and so we had that discussion uh when we granted the cup
and said yeah you can't they wanted to do events like this and we just said no so I I think um I'm kind of as a yes so why don't we say yes and then see if there's any more of us and then we can
say no you're pushing this into a business versus a random see how I a friend who wants to get married on my beautiful property I think we see how it goes and then it becomes an issue then we stop it but it's it could just
know this is a one time off and see how it goes and and put a lot of stipulations and a lot of parameters around it so that all of the neighbors are good with it and you know so on um yeah saying it's a one1 thing what this
person as a sister yeah I say it's a one yeah I would say if it becomes like hey it's oh we're not a businesss all the time for random people think that's different than my sister also would like to he has kids too so in theory they might want to get married there at some point
too so but that of gets back to the cup discussion when when the neighbors are like well are we going to have all these events here all the time and they did want to do like four or five events every year and we just said no that doesn't fit in um so I'm okay with one
but I think it needs to be clear that this is a onetime event because of the special circumstance surrounding the individual wanting to get married there I have no problem with that but then as Brian says you know wink wink you know these are friends of
mine and our wink wink these are relatives of mine um yeah I think then we have to put our foot down and say no you need to come in for an amendment to your CP then and then we have a discussion about it that's how I would do it
so no long before I was city council member I had wedding at my house in the backyard I I did talk to every single neighbor did you have 300 guests no
okay number 15 I proba should we have everyone was happy but um yes this is a business but what if they have you know four daughters that and they do a good job and maybe we just
give them an opportunity to be good neighbors have a nice wedding everyone goes home and a I mean I have neighbors that have parties constantly I mean big giant parties and you know we just kind of go
go I hope and I bet you I bet you wish but they didn't have a lot of big you know they can do that without a permit and they do it so I maybe we just are really um and uh we let them have their wedding and see how it goes it's if it's
is this um a business or a friend is it neighbor but so are they making money off of this so it's no different than you having a wedding right and I'm just saying though if they come back in 3 months saying oh we have another wedding
that we'd like to do for then you know when there's a and you have to say Okay I I understand and that's what I'm saying is that you know at some point we have to say no because then you have to come in for a conditional use permit
Amendment because we were very clear in the cup that um events are not going to be allowed here and the neighbors went away understanding that so if this one event happens we would have to explain to the neighbors what we're saying it's
okay and they have to come in for a permit and we're going to put some very restrictive um parameters around it and then if they come in a second time we just have to sing them come in for a cup or because everybody else that wants to
operate a business a wedding venue business has to come in for a cup or an IOP and so they need to be treated the same as well so all right I think we're I think we're good we we have the City
attorney saying that this is what we should do so I think we're we're good we we'll give them that direction and uh we'll move forward all right okay any other staff police chief Falls has a has a DTF update
potentially drug task force drug task force so recently the mayor and I the drug task force lunch in which um uh so last year was the first year that we combined the West Metro drug task force
which is what we've been part of since uh 2016 we joined forces with the Southwest Metro drug task force to create a larger task force and what that did for us was and we've talked about this in the past but just as a quick refresher that was
we were able to secure State funds as forfeiture monies kind of start to dry up um it's a way to to St stabilize the funding for the drug task force so that cities participating cities don't have to put money in to the costs and we all
know that you know we probably don't have a lot of drug manufacturing and things going on in our cities but we do have a lot of us a fair number of Overdose deaths and things like that um that do affect our communities and so it's very important that we're part of this um so with that last year we joined
forces and we are doing very very well so what I wanted to share tonight was just the year-to date um staff uh real quickly with you for that group for last year the good news is we received $300,000 in state funds to fund the task
force last year um and through some staffing shortages and things there was a a drug task force up in the Northeast Metro that folded because departments didn't have enough staff to staff uh that made that spot available for us
because these it's called a vet I have no idea what stands for I can find out if you really want to know I think you looked it up once and it's weird yes it's but it's a state term anyway long story short there's only so many uh spots open that can be funded through
this mechanism so we were fortunate to be a group that our task force did a really good job of making cases good cases and arrests and and forfeitures and things like that so we were selected as part of this group to be able to
receive these funds and so based on the numbers that I'll share with you and the successes of this combined group last year we will likely get a lot more funding in the future going forward because it has to do with uh a your size
and then B your productivity so both of those things work in our favor so I'm confident we're going to get a lot more fundage funds from the state going forward so so with that in 20124 we had uh arrests 242 arrests there were 308
search warrants 72 illegal Firearms seized um there were 137 State charges and there were six federal indictments um on the federal side now as a result of this combining group we
have Federal Partners which is important for a lot of reasons uh first of all the penalties are bigger when you see these large shipments uh of illegal narcotics um when you can charge the federally there's a lot more keed than that um and
then also these federal agencies like uh ATF FBI and uh the DEA we've worked with DEA for a long time they just edited ATF up called tobacco Firs to this group recently and so what comes with that is
a whole lot of resources at no cost to our local taxpayers so that's really nice for us um and so I'm confident that 2025 we'll have an even better year uh because we have these Partnerships in
place and so we have so many resources um then moving down the list I'll just go through these kind of quickly uh marijuana obviously illegal marijuana 185 pounds were ceased methamphetamines 148
pounds um other like waxes illegal oil wax type thing 71 pounds illegal VAP cartridges lb cocaine 25 lb that's a lot of cocaine mushrooms a little over 8 lb fentanyl
powder which is very very concentrated very deadly if it's not used in the great manner this is illegal fanol 4.4 PB Edibles over 4 pounds MDMA which is ecstasy that 2.5
lbs um let's see I'll switch to grams here because it's getting smaller LSD 252 G that's a lot for LSD uh crack cocaine 158 G heroin 7 gr and over
28,000 fentanyl pills so that's a lot of illegal drugs taken out the street our area just in our area no in the task forcea so but the issue is this stuff Minneapolis is now the number
three hub for large shipments of illegal drugs so we're we've surpassed Chicago it used to be Chicago M Minneapolis and what happens is all this stuff filters out to our communities and people use it and they get hooked on it and worst case
scenario they die of an overdose because a lot of this stuff is laced with fentanyl and other harmful things at we don't know what dose it's not consistent U most drug dealers really don't care they're not chemist so they just do their thing to make make a buck or two
and the results are so we're third in the country third in the country we have some kind of letter that we can put on our website that I can send every person I know well this is something that um
the they're working on through the the federal level to be able to identify and put out correspondents so the message is the same um we got this information right from the task force at the lunch in was that last week um th yeah can we get a copy of that if
when I get it yes this was just kind of given to us in a verbal I see report at that lunch this thought we got that you took from the Northwest one that away do we have to keep applying for that or we just permanently on it now until we dissolve the task force right once
you're on it you're in and we were very fortunate that um so on our task force is a number of Lake Area agencies and then Hanahan County actually runs it they provide the super supervision um which has worked really well even when we were just West Metro and then as time
went on the West Metro and the Southwest Metro worked together pretty frequently um you know s many years ago they kind of work very individually and then as things got a little bit more dangerous that you know the tide kind of changed a little bit civil unrest and things
towards towards police things got more dangerous um they started to work together so you have more bodies you safely when you're executing for wants you want more staff there um it's not like years and years ago where just a few people would go and serve search
once um we're very careful about how we do these things and and we don't worry about the small stuff this is all higher level stuff um so I guess what I'm saying is they did an outstanding job this succeeded our
expectations you we we have dedicated officer just as on that if this continues to grow are we going to me another dedicated officer or is one I think for the foreseeable future one is enough because I think that was part of the reason that we wanted to put
the two task forces together um you know it used to be just Lake area in hen County um now it includes you know goes south and east a bit so basically St Louis Park Eden Prairie
minota um the county ran theirs as well kind of so now we just bring all together as one the office out of Eden before we office separately um so it's just so much more efficient than it used to be and I would think that if they need more bodies
eventually to start with any that the larger cities would probably add anothering for chief how many of these seizures were done in the high schools well none of these seizures no
there there have been drug related things in the high school but at a lower level and the SRO handles that the beauty of being part of the task force is if you get something that is requires followup or further investigation or something more complex
than just being caught with a small amount of Narcotics then you have access to the whole drug task force so they can kind of investigate if it's a they can execute search warrants things like that um the high school certainly um
these large seizures aren't occurring there are they occurring like where are most of these occurring all over the have there been any in Minista there have been yes same Bonnie Minista um not all the time of course I
mean drugs are Regional so we get a lot more of the the big numbers to the east but that stuff's coming back to our CI so we have a lot more users than we do dealers out here that doesn't mean they AR so and are you these you know the fentol you said like
four pounds I mean couldn't that kill everyone in state in Minnesota depending on their cuity so are you seeing them being prosecuted and actually being put away are you seeing that yes yes we are and that's why the federal partners are
so important for these large scale dealers the the federal charges are much more likely to stick but that they have to hit a thresh on um but yeah have a lot of access through a lot of resources which is really good for our communities the
other thing that's nice about being part of a lar of the task force is if we get an overdose death we can call the task force and we're going to we're going to investigate our agency the death piece and then the task force would investigate the narcotics PS and follow this thing back and see who's supplying
what and and try and get at that and interrupt that and hopefully get those players um charged and out of the system so they're not causing any fur the and um thank you for all of your many years of service um so we started
participating in the drug drug task force in 2016 and um hopefully we'll continue that for many more years because it's it's very important an important aspect of our of our police and trying to keep our
residents safe so with that um any other staff reports um are we going to have a March 3rd meeting I would say right now we don't have enough on the agenda to more the meeting so if the mayor would like to cancel it okay okay you're able to do
that well um I will cancel it then so we will not have a March 3rd meeting well we convene on March 17th and with that are there Council reports um just I attended Mound Fire
Commission meeting on February 6 in 2024 Mound fire lost nine fire fighters six retired and three left due to other reasons so that's pleas um they have since hired three so that up to 34 they have two in the
interview process right now um for 2024 M fire had 725 calls for a total of 9,364 hours of those 725 calls 444 and 281 were fire calls minri portion
was 101 calls 43 fire and 58 medical for 14.3% other other calls uh Mutual Aid response was high for M responding to other calls they answered 21 Mutual Aid calls for 444 hours five of those were
in Minista in St Bonnie's district for 98 hours obviously with plan for the JP and everything they're responding to more these calls now so they'll be I don't know if that still comes as Mutual Aid since they're on the call together or how that's going to play out but they're
still working together so um the latter chart payment will be done in 2026 um so then the only debt that M fire will have is the engine they got two years ago now um which will end in 2023 or 2030 there's about
$352,000 those payments for Budget carryover in 2024 was 34 $1,000 um that's because of the fund reserve and $87,000
in um 20 the big change is in the software 2025 instant reporting system that they use switching from something called infers to NE r i s um So based on that the chief wants to switch the
reporting software that they use to something called first du cloud services cost $8,000 a year but it will automatically put more info from the C report that they get calls and everything has it puts that automatically into the NIS system which
will able to call payroll training hours response times and we be a very very large amount of time inputting all that I'll talk about fire partnership um meeting so we met um 12 yeah and um so
we were hoped to have a finance committee already met me meeting but that didn't happen and uh so part of the discussion was and I'll run this by you folks so we talked about a $2.3 million budget could be a pretty happy increase
however uh if if we do um again this is still to be determined but if we do the formula that we're thinking 50 50 50 um property values first and 50 um calls so I I won't go into details about that
today but if we did that formula it would increase our general Levy overall Levy of Just Around 3% and some communities I won't mention any names um felt that that was too much
however these are just preliminary numbers and I always feel that it's better to start high and and maybe work our way down but the other thing that I look at and I need feed back if you have any is we need to look at what we need
and what will provide the best coverage and safety for our community and if that means a % increase so be it it means you know a few dollars I think Jasper did the numbers and it means like a dollar a month or so what does it mean generally
speaking Yeah it's it depends on home value but on average it'd be about $2 a month $2 a month extra now some of these costs one of the reasons um the budget has to go up a bit is because um we're going to have some cost putting the two
uh player departments together okay so the the combining them is going to cost them the other thing is we are going to be Personnel full-time Personnel that we don't currently have now if we don't do the fire partnership St Bonnie is still going to have to add full-time Personnel
there's just yeah they'll add a full time and then possibly even other Staffing too in the very near future but they're really hurting right now because the chief is putting in so much time now some of the other things that we have to
consider is this OSHA is going to be coming down and there in the process of rewriting their requirements and training requirements and all of that o if they're and they're not done writing all these standards yet but when they are done they will then if they're going
down the road that we think they're going to go down it's going to mean a lot more training and a lot more time both on the chief's um plate as well as U training um so it's going to add more money um so having said that we're we're hoping to get a finance committee
together and pass through some of these things um before the 18th which is our next meeting and we're hoping to get the finance committee 100% Award with whatever but are you guys shocked with
the 3% General Levy at2 for household not well I think we just need to keep other things going up to J Ro if we want to increase our luy um we're looking at probably a 3
two one and a half to two 3% probably depending on what we do we're looking at um admin cost so yes we might be looking at somewhere around 10% merging again and then hopefully after that
I'll so the budget is 1.8 so combin now total so we put their budgets together and Chief came and came back 2.3 adding in everything they want there's wiggle room in there some it's not like money pay
bills so that but yeah it's not going to be yeah it be every year with level and we can use some fun balances to I'm sure to offset some of that for the first year sounds like a great idea I
just think to have a really big fish um so that was that and then we're hoping to have there's also a jpa contract subcommittee we are also hoping to get being meeting soon but it's challenging and I think the JP
discussion is going to be the harder discussion which kathle is on thate handed it to her but if she needs help well we have some good examples to go we got big Cel
[Music] Shir Henderson toship that's another one there's a bunch out there but I think we'll be good we're going to be f um we not going to be um anyhow anything
else other than I won't be at the meeting on the 18th so okay yeah so we will every is everybody else going to be here on the 18th no I'll be at the council meeting I won't be at player meeting counc I will not beting if it happens I'll throw him in
front of the can take just kidding just kidding it's all so anyhow so I I did attend the DTF lunch and also North Le and shared some of the things that were Happening Here
in our community and so on so we didn't have a speaker um it was just sharing the community um updates anything and anything else Water District's to start
monitoring the ox lake so try see if we can find a volunteer lives around the lake to do that my sister inla lives on she just moved here from Texas
yeah okay all right if we have no more reports I think we've covered everything then if there's a motion to a we can beour right thank you for seconding that all signy Part: 2
it's somewhere 5:00 right we're good it's 5 o00 somewhere all right some to call meeting to order this is February 18th 2025 and this is the work session meeting for the city council of Minista I'm going to make quick introductions here I'm Lisa way
I'm mayor and council president is Kath lein Peter vicory fa la and ran and then staff pres is our assistant administrator Ali paus we also have our administrator J Jasper kral David AEL and our community development director
and Paul F is our chief of police and then Aon with TST and going to be presenting on our water treatment plan um later on and with that um oh do we have anybody remote participating is it um we
have an and Gary so anof is our city clerk taking notes remotely and then Gary hi Gary thank you for waving any know Gary Peters is our Public Works director so we can ask some questions if we have to and with that we
have um we have quite a lot that's why we started at 5 one of the reasons um on our agenda so um it consists of we're going to meet our new city staff members and then we're going to talk about the XL Energy easement over City Hall and police properties the Woodland Co HOA
crosswalk request and then we have um we have also had a discussion on whether to re or whether to it's regarding private um items in public right of weight you saw that in your packet so I won't get into that right now and then Aon will
update us on the water treatment plan option so with that I'm going to start out with Ally if you want to give us a quick introduction on our new St yeah you can stand up we don't fight too hard started as
our new Public Work maintenance work her on November 12th she was previously um at Mineral Service Plus we hired two people for mineral um and we're happy to have him here he was also enrolled in electrici
program um through Community colle how do you like it so far good are you out there plowing and shoveling in this cold yes and you still like it all right
good anything you want to add no okay you have a good boss I don't think you can answer that right there he is right there we're glad to have you on board welcome to the teamk you and then we
have Brendon McCarthy he started as our first engineering technici on January 21st he was we poached him from Walia Public Services technician and a lot of
experience the RO evolves great and um I know you're an interest resent us you can walk I think he's the only one oh all right
in the group but we're happy had to have you I know this is a brand new position for us and uh hopefully you enjoy it here and um prosperous and U work well anday stick around for a while so
yeah and do you like your boss thank you very much for coming it's always nice to put a with names and we always approve the hir so it's nice to have you come and greet us as well as to as well so thank you so next we have the
EXL energy e over at City Hall you don't have to stay if you'd like to um eand yeah um real quickly mayor and members of the council um so page three of your packet of the work session packet has the diagram that probably
explains this best um to the point Excel Energy is redoing their transmission line and you can see it takes a weird jog on the back of the what is City Hall and police properties on that page three diagram in your map well they Excel
Energy reached out to the city and asked if we'd be interested in all in uh them obtaining an easement from us to fix that jog in their line and and just do a straight shot if you will over city property uh on the on the rear of it I
guess we can get to the map there but um so what what they're looking to do um what looking at market rate value anywhere from five to $6,000 is the range they gave us is what they'd be willing to pay the city for said easement if you're you know interested
in doing so um if not um there's all the other idea would be a license agreement um not a preferred route by the city or Excel but um that is another option available able to you or if you're not interested they'll just simply put the line back where where it was this
obviously is easier for them and more preferred for them but before they got too far in their planning process um they wanted to figure out if if the council was willing to go down this this road with them if they are then they'll we'll go through the process of having the City attorney review the easement
documents and and all those uh details will get ironed out through the process but we wanted to reach out early and see if if there's a willingness to to go ahead and uh go move forward with an easement questions will there be any Towers on
the city property or just they they don't know that yet they haven't gotten far enough in their design to figure that out when you say Towers holes
H um likely not but he he didn't know that yet they haven't they're just preliminary stages of coming up with plans so um they didn't know that it looks like there's a and some wets there
is there any enviral concerns Orting that would be would be any if they do affect any Wetlands they would have to go through the wack up process they generally will try to avoid that as much as possible but obviously that's not always you know they can't always do that so they would go through
the the Wetland review in terms of what they impacting and then having to replace or buy credits whichever they end up doing so I noticed that agreement said City would still be
responsible problems things like that they could bring that out any um I don't I don't I don't think so um I mean I mean I guess it depends on what I
guess you don't know what you're going to find or I don't know what would you'd have to correct I mean nothing's no you know it's find it's probably just have to stay there whatever it is you know for the poll or whatever they're
doing not like they'd be Excavating I mean other than drilling a hole for the pole correct like that in theory they're just going to use two existing polls just put one line through them yeah five or $6,000 doesn't seem like
much our attorney probably similar to that but what's your sense on that yeah we we tried to squeeze them we said what we knew that our Council would ask that same question so we said you're going to have to do better than that and he said the only the only way it could get
better is if they were to do an appraisal but they looked at I mean they know they're looking at what the value of land is around here and based on what what the value is that's what their determination was that it would be the5 to $6,000 range so there's the risk I mean they could do an appraisal it could
be less could come back less than what they're offering or it could be more but it's probably not going to be a significant amount more see my my thought was how much are they saving by going straight across versus having to redo that that money
is that five or six grand you know I mean what's it worth to them I don't know I I I know said that number to that's kind of that's kind of low but mean yeah and that's not any
land that we would consider right I mean I would I think the attorney fees would have to be included so if it's if they won't go up above the 6,000 then it would have to be but this w B is doing this so we should
be able to find out okay tell us really what they're willing to go to um I would go a little higher and then also throw in um attorney fees they would have to pay they know that already that they have to pay the it's an I mean they're going to
have to fill a general service application we told them there's a deposit they'll they'll P the attorney fees there they know they know that um we already asked if they'd go above 6,000 they said that they'll just do it the way they did it they they'll just walk
away then why wouldn't matter you guys want to do take the six grand and yeah yeah okay they do give us the money every year for our just today so sure okay yeah okay
sounds good thanks okay um next is the um Woodland Co HOA crosswalk request who's going to take that I can take that uh so um this has been kind of an ongoing discussion that um we've had with with some of the HOA members or
residents of Will and Cove um probably for about the last year um on and off with just various questions you'll see things like The Pedestrian um activated crosswalk lights those are some of the things that we've talked about in the past with this group um trimming up some
of the hedges along uh Woodling or Kings Point Road in Woodland Cove um Boulevard um we've looked at that we we've worked with them one of the requests that they had at that time uh was to add a couple crosswalks um
to uh Wen Cove Boulevard so we've looked at it internally as a as staff um you know myself Gary uh Allison did a little research and and Paul that's kind of the core group that looks at some of these
requests um the engineering piece does not meet the standard of adding a crosswalk uh so to that level it's really up to city council as far as if they want to do it I do have a couple of video or three videos I believe um that
kind of I think it's a doorbell cam or something that kind of show shows the intersection um they ask I don't know if there's Representatives that's that's your camera okay yeah yeah so um we can pull that up if if you'd like um there's
yep and then I would say ask you know talk to Paul Paul's got you know from a public safety standpoint um you know a strategy about crosswalks and and really you know what one thing that we don't want to do is is have a false sense of security you know there's a crosswalk
there we have pedestrian ramps you'll see probably from the videos um there's ped ramps there so people can cross it's just a matter of people need to be aware of of Crossing now if there's a certain amount of traffic that um increases on that road then that would potentially
trigger adding something you know stop sign or or something um but right now it's just the engineering standards that Allison uses don't indicate that that we should do anything at this point but um because we have a request um we've indicated to the group um get a letter
from the HOA and bring it to council and then we can talk about it to see if there's something that the this group wants to do or direct staff to do so let's see the video yeah um give me one second because I think it's actually in my Ally do you have are you able to
access my folder because it's in my uh City administrator project so iagree standards and but they um and what they usually do is they say if it's more or not they and then they have different
specifications and standards that they use before they say yes it's warranted one of the standards is Le limits one of the standards is um number of traffic units that Traverse or you know ATS and then another one is how many accidents
have and those those are and then they also look at s lines so what are the sight lines at these intersections do they Moet their standards I believe the standards for the I think for crosswalk I think it's about 300 ft is that
correct correct okay so it's 300 ft uh both for the pedestrians they want to make sure pedestrians can see both directions for 300 ft and they want to make sure that the vehicle's compl be 300 ft um ahead in case people are in the crosswalk or in that intersection
and if it so that's why um so a lot of times minda and Engineers will say it doesn't it's not warranted because feeds aren't there accidents aren't there yet and um and then uh because of a number of traffic thoughts you know daily
traffic thoughts and so but I think we should also look at it in terms of do we want to prevent from happen think a crosswalk will present prevent anything from happening drivers in the neighborhood AR necessarily on the and pedestrians frequently just walk
wherever they want we were driving on Kings Point Road and saw kids just go right through the middle of the intersection not to the flashing pedestrian lights push the button and make drivers aware of them I think a crosswalk will give pedestrians a false sense of security that cars are going to
stop and they don't need to be aware of it think with regard to the bus stop you can reach out to either minetonka or west Tonka and ask them to move the bus stop pa you want M mayor counc I was going to mention that maybe we should take the video want critique them
because the issues are a little bit different it might be easier to track okay if we back you don't if you can remember the first M don't necessarily have to go back um I will say that one of the things that I noticed in the first video I mean certainly the goal here is is for safety but as was
mentioned I don't think just putting it a crosswalk makes it safe okay I think the first video this video here demonstrates a couple things to me a people are capable of cross street safely with or without a cross what I would look at is how long do folks have
to wait to cross as there's so many vehicles that they have to wait a long time well that would be more indicative of the need for a cross um I think we saw a vehicle that stopped coming the other way with no cross um while I think people try to be
Good Samaritans that's actually an incredibly dangerous thing to do if you're if you have the right away then go don't stop because you're creating a hazard by doing that a lot of people don't understand that could be that the car was parked though right have it's to
tell here but those the dog are they come up with the intersection they wait a single car was by they look and they crossly they safely crossed the road that doesn't indicate a need for anything that indicates this works exactly the way it was intended from my
perspective okay one thing that's um hold on let's watch the next one and and chief did you have anything to see on that one it's the same thing I think Ines the
same how many are there just three oh okay the golf Court's a whole another set of issues in the neighborhood right then would prevented that obviously that shouldn't have that's all okay thank you um Ain
I'll give you two minutes if you that'd be great thank you uh my name is Aaron geni I live at 46 box drive that camera is mounted on my house so this is a day-today concern of mine and
my wife being that she works from an office right in the that front uh respectfully Chief I would say pedestrians have the right of way most drivers don't yield to that at all even your own officers have not yielded to that I've personally had three separate
police officers okay okay we don't need to get into whether they are adhering to it but why why do you feel a crosswalk is needed University of Minnesota did a study a year ago that found that 60% of cars did not yield to pedestrians at B
March prosp I can forward that study to whoever wants to see it and read through it from the article that I found at least painting lines and putting up a sign does offer a reduction in those incidents 50 50 pedestrians are killed a year in the state of Minnesota I really
don't want it to action finally happen when there's a dead child or a dead dog or a dead person being scraped off the road by your officers for something to be got because it's a concern thank you I think something to add would be
that this is a sub HOA the actual Master HOA did was not in support of putting crosswalks in this was brought to the master and they were not in support of it because again they don't want parents kids anyone have a false sense of security they don't have to look both ways before they cross the street that
they don't have to wait for cars if they can clearly see that are coming they don't want them just saying oh there cross off I can just go I think I disagree do realize that uh before I joined the council I spent a lot of time in the Woodling area
and uh got to know with the bouevard pretty well uh and it is a thorough far for community uh and there are a lot of new housing going in at the end of it so I it's only
going to get is um so people really go through that particular uh Road pretty quickly um and also behind the town houses there is a park and so that's a
big attraction of course for people with the dogs kids uh to to cross this room uh and so I think it would be a really good idea because uh I just think that
it should alert drivers uh to its more residential area thorough and uh I would never assume that that crossbox would go so would be a support in this um
interest is not nearly as dense as talking I was really fast the down almost like they were not caring about the kids and the dog walkers and I do think it gives one more thing to look at um I was
thinking about um I don't know the name of the R I think it's St Bonnie not Trista but you know where that Rush dental office is in St Bonnie at the end of that road they they're having the opposite they want to have like a stop sign remov
because they say no one stops so it's kind of the opposite situation here where they fought somebody fought for a stop sign and but that looks pretty scary and I think for the cost of beat on the road I
mean if it could catch someone's attention and make them slow down be more mindful of someone Crossing there I would be fall have two questions um because first we really feel like the issue is that
motorists are not yielding to pedestrians in the street or is that people are driving too fast on yes yes um maybe both if people aren't yielding I'm familiar with the uh looked up the
uh University of Minnesota study you talked about um researching this if the issue is that people aren yielding I I do think that crosswalk would probably be helpful if the issue is just that speed limit is 30 and people are driving
45 I'm not sure if I could see that that might give people false sense of security um so I just want to make sure we're addressing the real poor issue here um and then second one's kind of a new guy question is how much does a cost put in
a cross water yeah so there's the initial cost right um and I know Gary was going to try to get some numbers for this he was going to talk to the striping guy but then every year it has to be redone so Allison maybe you have an idea you know it might be like 500
bucks to put in one crosswalk is what I would estimate it to be between supplies and time yeah so and that's just ongoing the one thing to keep in mind is you know the precedent if there's you know more crosswalks you might we might get more requests right if
um you know so just keep that in mind um because you know in this case you know it's a crosswalk we've gotten some requests for stop signs and things like that in the past and you know we really is it ashto is that the standards that you guys use um to develop you know if
the need is there or not for I forget or it's a uniform traffic control device manual yes it's a nationwide standard for where these applications so you know we try to lean on that but then if it's outside of that realm that's where city council can come
in and say w we think we we should put it in here for the betterment of the community um so as far as costs go about 500 bucks a year per crosswalk so in this case you have sign yep then there's signs there would be two signs yep but you know you got you know the four if
you want to do all four you know inter you know all four crosswalks are just the two across the Woodland Co Parkway um you know at the two locations and we're probably talking you know with the with the sign signs are in one time cost they're probably about 250 bucks a piece
one time both directions you need them so you're probably $1,000 there plus another thousand for the for the um striping and then probably a figure $ thousand dollar a year Ono how far apart are the two
intersections and then right there there's noville doesn't need one right maybe just do it at at one well and if we if we do this you're going to get more requests for these because they're going to want one at and Boulevard and Lotus where the new pool is eventually they'll
want one down by pickup fall courts are everyone will start requesting these and then whatever precedent we set with this they'll be like well they got one why aren't we getting one and I mean like why is it Woodland this HOA said no the master
board said no we don't want Prof we don't think they're needed we think it will give people a false sense of security there are plenty of kids my neighbor who do not look for cars who run across the street the golf carts is a whole another set of problems they're out of control the kids driving them
don't it's not for anybody and I I don't know if you could tell who's driving it a kid or an adult because the kids drive through like there's no tomorrow on the par golf carts but that was the bad one and that was a golf cart that wasn't a car the cars that went through there was plenty of time for the people to stand there while one car passed and then they
could cross there wasn't a steady stream of cars going through the the ref if kids are are running across the boat wouldn't a crosswalk help alert drivers
that there's a crosswalk ahead and that maybe they need to pay close attention and well but parents should just be teaching their kids to stop and look for cars they should but but if the kids aren't or the kids are not paying attention that that's I think the
concern is but paint a paint on the road is it going to well let's ask Chief I mean just but Chief can I ask I mean can I just ask one more question why if do you feel that your your neighbors and your community members feel the same way
yes then why aren't they all storming the gates of the HOA and demand it's a city street it's not an HOA Street it's a city street if we're talking if we're talking about the street that's south of there by the playground that is an HOA
maned Street that's a private drive for the residents of the Town Hall Woodland Co Boulevard is a city of Minista owned Street and hold on just a second Chief Madam mayor and Council I I think we can all agree that we we want our streets to
be safe um but I'll be honest just slapping in crosswalks every time someone comes here here and asks for one um especially when they show a video with a c I didn't see an issue there's nothing wrong with people understanding that I heard a term about an unmarked
crosswalk is that yes an unmarked crosswalk it just looks like a plan intersection to me every corner is a crosswalk that's from the Minnesota Department of Transportation well okay I disagree I think an intersection is in crosswalk is a designated area
designed yeah because we're trying to work through the problem my point isn't that I don't want to do something for you my point is that sometimes you can slap up more signs it doesn't fix the problem it makes it worse you can put up more St signs all
people do is drive faster between them because they so frustrated and the same can happen with crosswalks it might be helpful if we could pull up maybe that stretch of roadway and see it's hard to know just talking about it how far is it the next yeah so
there's there's a crosswalk about 300 feet to the east is just put Google Map yeah so there's a crosswalk that's where we'd like people to cross but we understand people cross at the
yes but people are pedestrians cross at the closest have sidewalks leading to the so I understand that some people don't want to walk 300t to a marked but I mean crosswalk but that's why it was
designed well are you are you saying every intersection have because that would become so cumbersome that it would actually take away from the point of having a cross it doesn't draw awareness it just makes it so
confusing no the C the marked the current marked crosswalk is how far from Fox club right well which part of fox gr because there's two entrances this is the mark cross right there and then Fox Club has two entrances which
one the park and this trail with the park or sidewalk right here that they can walk on down and then get onto H which is the but there's a sidewalk there that's more than 300t though it's
probably 500 or 600t so can whoever is running just point out the location that you're requesting the crosswalk at and it be right right here that's one of them and then the other one is at
cranville and then the actual crosswalk is that's crosswalk for the trail across has nothing to do with Crossing getting to the that's turn around come back so did you
measure it to the first Fox Glove yep it's 350 ft to the first Fox Glove and then 950 to Greensville but there's also yeah so you can see there's if you look there's a ped ramp three ped
ramps so it be this one so yeah it's 950 ft that's that's a pretty good distance I mean 9et a good distance it is and I I want to make sure people can still cross there right we have ped ramps it's just the pedestrians
need to be alert and aware that you know and I believe the the way that the the law states is you know you you're not you don't get the right away as a pedestrian until you enter the street so if you can be sitting on the PED ramp I believe that's the way Paul has
described it to me is you can be you know 5 feet away from the PED ramp but as soon as you enter the curb line or the street that's when the car needs to yield legally um so you know if somebody's walking up there and a car drives by at 30 m an hour it probably might feel like they're
driving pretty fast but I know we've had our Speed trailer out there significantly that collects data and there's Paul knows and Allison knows way more about this I'm kind of Faking it but there's perceived speed and actual speed so when somebody's driving by you at a really you know 10 feet away and they're driving 30 it seems like driving
pretty dang fast but that's interesting that The Pedestrian has a right away once they enter the street even if they just put out there I I never knew that I always thought cars had the right of weight unless there was a pedestrian Crossing then The Pedestrian has the
right of way that's how I always that's what I thought assume the right way the intersection um but you can't It also says you can't just jump out in front of a car either no no I just get to jump in front of a car say well I have the right right um the whole idea behind this design is
is to use common sense of course um and so so at what point would would a pedestrian Crossing be um appropriate there or or um warranted there when we
get 1,000 adds a day I mean is that metam mayoring Council maybe the engineer could answer maybe actual numbers but from my perspective I'm not po to a crosswalk I just think we need to take a logical approach otherwise we're going to be putting crosswalks
everywhere or you're going to putting crosswalk okay everywhere and then they kind of lose their effectiveness okay we want them to be obvious and have some meaning and make sense in the right places I'm not close to a crosswalk but I don't think we should put one Here There and Everywhere because it's going
to have the opposite effect it's going to create confusion and it is going to create a false sense of security um whether there was a crosswalk or not I always taught my kids and my grand kids that you don't ever rely on someone else to see you or do the right thing right
you need to make make sure that it's safe and then you decide they don't decide well and the argument for putting one at kensville is the bus stop correct but there are bus stops all over the neighborhood that don't have crosswalks with tons of kids on them and you don't
need a crosswalk the bus has an arm the kids can wait on the other side of the road till the Bus shows up and then cross when the arm is out that's what they do by my house on Creek Side off the really big one on Creek Side and Co Parkway like you wait for the bus most
kids are sitting in a parents cars anyway yeah I don't I don't disagree with that because um buses do have flashing red lights and whatnot I'm just wondering about the Fox Glove one if it's warranted there um I mean it's a
natural comments and else um the problem with wood Boulevard is that coming down the hill coming out of the new sub first of all there's no speed signs heading west on
go heading east they they not heading west um so they're coming down it's a hill a little bit they pick up speed the problem with Woodland cold is there are no actual houses with driveways coming out on we have a couple of streets a little bit different when
you get up in the other subdivision there's houses all along the can't get going too fast but people are pulling out of the driveways not the case all along here and they pick up speed I walk my dog every day through there same thing to Aaron you got to watch walking
across that street because people are not going through all right is a main it is a main thorough right um I would not put crosswalks all throughout the development I I don't think so that that's necessary but what is this
is30 okay yeah well and we don't put up sorry just for the speed limits if there's no stop sign or no no speed limit signs it's 30 that's the that's the way the law is written so if you don't see it if you don't every I mean I've just taught that in driver's ed
um so you know if you don't know what the speed limit is you don't see a sign it's 30 that's that's all right um well let's um any any change of heart or any other comments no I'm still not uh entirely St the
issues whether it's a stop sign issue or a crosswalk issue that's where I go because if we hear lot I I know that people do speed through there I see it every day um and I'm not sure if crosswalk is going to fix that um but that's what we're we're
considering right now well we're not considering stop signs um we're just considering a um a crosswalk and I'm not sure stop signs do slow people people don't I'm not sure but um and then the question is even if they weren't
speeding would that still resolve any safety issues for pedestrians I think that would be the question um so I think to um the chief's point we should have some kind of criteria on which to base a
crosswalk so that we don't end up I don't the poll's putting a crosswalk in here it seems to me like it makes sense because people um there seems to be some kind you know division between the trail crosswalk and
then this this one here um and also there's a a park destination so it seems to me like they would be using that crosswalk frequently having said that I still think it would behoove us to maybe establish some
criteria um to determine um how we can then not not approve because ion of them in this throughout Woodland so we say well this is here because it needs this or this or this criteria kind of like M
but we don't have to have those stringent of you know standards but then that way when somebody comes and says well we want one on the next 350 ft or we want one you know what I'm saying then we can say no this is our criteria
so this is why this one is here so then we need to set the criteria and determine if that intersection meets the new criteria we're setting right right and so I would say have have the police and staff kind of put together a
criteria to use by which we would then determine with uh where in the future or if this one meets that criteria um and then in the future when we get more requests then we can use those same
criterias so if let's say up there by the pool somebody says well we need a crosswalk here and we say okay here's the three or four criterias that we have does it meet those criteria it does put in a crosswalk it doesn't we don't put in a crosswalk and when you say crosswalk are you talking about putting
the flashing signs as well or just striping the street well again that would be what's more effective or what's what's better so if if I may um we do have criteria that that we use like from the engineering standards we would need
guidance from from your from this group as far as what those criteria are um because I'm I'm kind of drawing a blank as far as something that's not subjective and more you want an objective like yes or no right for instance in this case the crosswalk
would lead directly then to this park back there so you know something like that is there is this um intersection a destination for instance does it lead to a des dination or an immediate you can't do that in that neighborhood there are
parks everywhere I mean that then you put a crosswalk at Big Woods and woodlink Co Parkway and people already blow through the stop sign that is there but it leads directly to the big Park so that criteria right there would mean that we would have to put in a
crosswalk there and people blow through the stop sign they're going to blow through the crosswalk well how many stop sign or crosswalks could there or would there potentially be one two three and have we had requests for other
areas M mayor C I think uh I've had a number of conversations over the last I know several years regarding this neighborhood as it continues to develop for crosswalk probably more so for stop signs okay than crosswalks which kind of became the same argument I I'm not an
engineer so I can't answer is there some kind of a requirement that says crosswalks have to be so far apart I don't know the answer to that um and so I mean I would think that there would be some kind of
distance um Madam mayor if I may uh so included in the packet there was a we had a somebody from our traffic uh area provide some guidance as far as looking at the the crossrock request in there and it's on page 21 of the packet there
is um a flowchart if you will as far as what components go into a crosswalk analysis um you'll see in there one of the first decisions um after the first decision is is the first question is no it talks about an engineering study so
uh when we look at the the engineering study it does look at the volume of pedestrians going through the neighborhood certainly the the speed and the the volume of traffic going through there um and then also included in that flowchart is the distance from the other Crossing so it does does walk through
some of the um evaluation criteria when um looking at crosswalks through there but certainly an engineering analysis is a lot more than what the council is for in this I mean I don't think we need to spend $8,000 um to be told that cars are
traveling faster than 30 miles an hour or that there's you know people crossing here it's yeah but I think I think one of the um things that would be good to know is if if a cross for to go in at Fox Club Drive how far would apart would
be um an acceptable distance because I think that would then limit the number of cross box is it 350 ft is it 700 ft I mean how far should they be apart what is a reasonable and safe distance
because they don't want them at every intersection I understand that and I would if I may I would say that's up to the city council because right now I mean we obviously want through an engineering evaluation of of the roads and the road configuration when it was put in it didn't wor any crosswalk so if
city council says oh geez we want to have crosswalks every 300 feet well then that's now the standard if we follow the engineering standard it's none yeah but how so engineering standards say how far apart I mean I think it depends on the
type of Road and the speed and and all those different factors which I believe are factored into the analysis of this when they're when they're initially looked at but if but if that's a PO if that's something you want to look at I mean then we're talking a significant amount
more money um to do this consistently throughout this neighborhood and possibly other neighborhoods excuse me for saying this but if if I lived where you lived and this is a problem that you are very passionate about I can see it in your
face um I would have all of my neighbors in this chamber I would have brought all my neighbors because I mean if if it's that if if you say all your neighbors feel this way
then so let's do this um our next meeting um what I would suggest um our next meeting is uh March 17th is our next meeting because probably won't meet on the third um it would be good for us
to hear from more neighbors so bring your neighbors and sign up under persons to be heard and um ask the council to consider a crosswalk we won't consider two I'll tell you that right now because those are um between because the one
where the U bus stop is for for um children getting on and off the bus that should be addressed with the bus company if they're not putting out their stop arm with their lights flashing that's the bus company's issue um if you want
um crosswalk here by Fox Club because there's a park that people like to go to that's a different story so come with your neighbors as council member Lacy said then we can decide if there's going to be more in the meantime we can kind
of look at how far apart we might allow to have these crosswalks we won't make any decision on May 17th but at least we can hear from um March yeah thank you thank you we won't make any won't make any decisions on March
17th but at least that'll give us some feedback and some information so session um no do come for the regular meeting at 7 o'clock come a little bit ahead of time sign up in the back there's a sign up sheet and then we'll we'll hear from you you get a few minutes to speak so
you don't have to be elaborate we just want to know how many people really want this I think that that'll be good for us to know and letters work too yeah no not I more than this you yeah get all your neighbors WR letter all
right and thank you for taking the time we we do appreciate that um all right next um item then is the private items in public right of way yeah and I can talk about this briefly and Alison and Gary's here to kind of fill in it's uh
we are having some audio problems so but this one is pretty straightforward so generally when we have a reconstruction project there's a lot of work that is done in the RightWay so the area outside of the curb line um that people generally so I guess shouldn't say generally but sometimes they have stuff
in there like irrigation um invisible fence for your dogs those types of things what we've been doing and what we noticed at this the 2023 project was there's a lot of City funds that get tied up and it actually delays the project pretty significantly to to finish these things the way our
ordinance reads is that you can't put anything in the RightWay now people do right they want to have their grass watered and things like that but what we're suggesting here is um to start the policy potentially in 2026 when we have another reconstruction project
potentially and kind of put homeowners maybe on those projects and just in the city in general if we're directed to um that they are responsible for the things that they have in the RightWay so they would have to proactively have an irrigation person come out or proactively have a invisible
fence person or whatever else you have in the right away if you want to keep it it's on the homeowner versus on the city now couple things to note um I don't know if I don't know the the right way to say this there may be people that are
taking advantage of this um throughout the project we decide that there isn't probably won't be much work in the RightWay this year for 2025 no it's mostly within the curb line so um there's a little bit of curb
repair but we're not anticipating much outside of that so 20 you could um you know this is kind of a PR Communications thing we got to make sure people know but um you know it's a lot hey I want you to do this I want you to grade this this was different you know and we take pictures of everything beforehand so we
know exactly what the site was like um but in order to get the project to to move along um the city ends up doing a lot of this work irrigation repair you know we get some instances where people take it upon themselves to repair the irrigation and then send us a bill and it's like no no this isn't how this
works but um you know for the sake of the project and getting it done in a timely manner and final accepting it um we have done that recently and in the past as well so what we're looking for is discussion potentially Direction and if the direction is to kind of put the
the residents on notice that hey this stuff that's in the RightWay people might not even know what the RightWay is you know so it's you know a lot of people think I own up to the curb well no it's actually you know three feet back 10 feet 15 you know whatever it is that's a problem but you should know um
you should know that so you're kind of putting the the onus on the property owner to know where the actual RightWay line is and then if they have anything in there they would have to proactively get that moved before the project um and then if we would go in there and there's something in there and we you know
damage it during the project it wouldn't be the city's responsibility to repair so the reason I'm for doing this but not in 20125 is because we already as you know tonight we're going to be awarding the bids and construction could start as
early as June I think I mean you know and so that doesn't give any current homeowners that are in this ground in 2025 enough time to move anything that they might have and like um like Jasper
said there really isn't any dis here I mean it's it's if any it's would be very Min I mean that would be plenty of time we tore up our back car they we called and they came out and moved our from car line exactly when we wanted to I mean if you find out now you can schedule it for
May and get it done um and and ideally if people have to move it once we we'd say put it on your property but then have your irrigation heads water that area but not actually have it be in the area so there's ways around it it's just a lot of times they put the irrigation
line right at the curb line and then shoot it back you know towards the house or whatever so there's a lot of this um I know that it's been a somewhat frustrating point on our end um you know because it does does delay it's a lot of work it's a lot of extra work for our
engineering um well engineering technician or WSB whoever's doing construction Administration it's a it's a lot of extra work so does our city building code prohibit building stuff in there building yeah well it prohibits
you from putting it in there but people do right yeah yeah so it's it's kind of this I don't know if it's a gray area but it's unenforced a lot of people do it um this would be a clear indication from from city council hey inforce the ordinance don't allow people to do it
well one of the suggestions I would have is that when a building government comes in to actually make the owner the property owner if it is property owner a lot of times it's a builder but make them aware that hey do not put this in the right way don't put your fences
Invisible Fences and your irrigation systems in the right away because you may have to move it eventually for the sprinklers can't we include that when we check the soil and everything to make sure there's no sprinkler along in it a lot of times that's done after we do our inspection the irrigation
installed so lot times we'll do like a final grading in the fall and they'll install the irrigation in the spring after the grading permit spin so sometimes yes a lot of times no but I think it's it's you know personal responsibility of the of the homeowner
if we let them know and I think we're trying to be reasonable with alerting them and providing them the information you know we put it on our website on social media you know things like that to try to get people to be aware um but there are a lot of people out there that don't don't know what the right away is
where the line is we we give people that um complain about when we do a road um what is it called not Rite but anyhow the little Stones yeah coing and then uh people
call and say it's all over my yard well it's like you know foot beyond the curb and they think it's their yard it's like no it's not too bad it's there you can Mo it if you want but I do think we should keep reposing trees
though if the residents wanted yeah yeah with trees I don't think that's going to change the do you want I mean do you agree we should have them move it and do you want to move it this year next year6
sense that okay so in the meantime we're going to start making it known that hey if you have a street project coming and your stuff is in the right way it yeah it okay and we can incorporate that into some of the the meetings the neighborhood meetings that
we have to make sure that they understand that so everybody on the project should know now there will be a lot of people that still have stuff in the right away that you know we need to make sure they understand what that is try to educate all right okay then next um
water treatment plan options and discussion Aaron you are up all right I got her here here you go sir all right I'm back so
um so an update I guess from last meeting um I guess there are some questions on design size are we designing too big of a facility so review some of the water system planning uh work that we've done to try to give a
little bit better sense for your future demands and some of the assumptions we made uh we'll talk about some of the filter options that estimated cost what we looked into and then we have so and I understand the chart of the left is a little small
but it's the best I could do tiny is the word um but when we started u when we did the water system plan we looked at met counil um projections we used 2040 there 2040 projections which is the best we
had to date um and that basically uh we let us to assume we have 3800 households served by the utility in 2040 90% of those Smalls would be on water and then following 2040 and this is for your entire city uh following we assumed 100
new homes a year 90% of those would be T so that's some of assumptions that went into water demand um development by 2080 we assume the city would be fully developed at about 21,600 people and
17650 so um also in some of our growth projections we looked at what we call peing Factor so this is important as we get into some discussions later on but essentially that's the ratio of your max
day demand uh against your average day so between 2019 and 2023 the city Minister has average to 3.6 speaking Factor um for their South system this is just for the South system now uh you can see on like the image
there the green is the South the blue is the north system so we're not focus on that right now for reference the DNR when it comes to water supply plant typically recommends a factor of 2.6 that's very common Metro Community so
you guys are about a whole point higher than most communities so I think you know that I'm just trying to give you a sense that's a that's an average I know there's been Summers where we have been even higher than that so we take our population projections so if we just
look at the cell system take our population projections we take our again is small um we take the average gallon per capita per day times the modulation projections and the times the peaking Factor gets us to our Max day so that's
how we come up with what we think you're going to use in in the hottest day of the summer that's what we have to design to so the green is the historical and then the white is everything projected for and this this was from an older study so 2024 that we now know but uh we
projected a about 1360 Gall per would be the highest demand you would see so that projects all the way out into 2080 um so if we if we're looking just at the South Zone the Kings Point water plant
will produce 1,000 gallons a minute and in 2050 we would need an additional 1,700 gallon per minute your max statement so we use 2050 as kind of the new reusable planning Target for T infrastructure so that's why I highlighted that because I think it's
important for reasonable planning and fild the 28 Bo so 1,700 Gall per minute would get us uh assuming storage is a separate issue assum we had enough storage additional 1,700 Gall additional so we want to be pumping 27 or filtering
2700 yes additional 1,700 Beyond that's assuming at 3.6 and that's going out to 2050 yes that would get us to 2050 okay so you've seen this graph or this chart before but that red line that's the 1700 Gall per
minute so that's where it would get us to um if we would design the 2100 Gall per minute that would get us to about 260 so it's an additional 10 going back to the peaking fact now if we reduce our peaking factor to 2.6
which is the DNR recommendation that moves that that reduces the demand in 2050 by 700 so then we would only need a000 per it's important for later discussions because I'm trying to kind of braacket
what you guys potentially might need in the future um so if I go back to that chart you can see that green line the P Factor .6 that's basically the trend here on you keep your current peaking Factor if we move to a 2.6 peaking
factor that pulls you down to the rim so you can see what that means for the length that this infrastructure will provide the service that needs to provide that when reducing your peaking Factor significant down to 2.6 you get a
lot more life or infrastructure you have well life but you can service more people you can service more people you're able to it's less yes right so again I wanted to show you just give you a perspective of how big should we build
for this wooden Co and how optimistic are we that we can drive that peing factor now and how quickly we're going to grow so a question because we're talking peaking factors which means irrigation since now going forward we're
talking about um requiring developments to put in um storm water ponds and pumping from storm water ponds rather than using ours so how can we I don't know how you can do this I'm not the expert you are how can you factor that
in because we might be at that 2.6 with going forward you know does that make sense yeah and we look at the pp Factor kind of an average of the community but we all know that there's portions that use more and portions that right so what you're speaking to is
anyone going forward is not going to be an instal system for Iration so they're naturally going to have a much lower be factor which will over time delute your 3.6 factor and pull that down you're never going to get rid of current people
that are on the system right um so you're always going to have the load we you currently have but you're you'll naturally bring that teaching Factor down um so you're just deluding what much
um so with that sorry more questioning Factor we had like a longterm that number from the DNR a longterm one that's looking at the uh average rainfall for The Last 5 Years particular dry compared to the a longterm rainfall
between cities and I think 2023 was particular dry just recent things I've been looking at that was one of the drier uh years so which doesn't surprise me that your P Factor was that year so so that definitely
drove off your average a little bit but the 2.6 that the DN recommends is um it's just kind of a global like recommendation it doesn't not specific to so it's a Target it's a Target know you're going to be high some years lower than some years but that's Target you
know what we did last year4 give me a second um so in to answer maybe so climatologists with global warming and so on um they're anticipating actually
to have um not more rainfall but more heavy events so in other words um in fact we're seeing that already with um when we do our stor water Pond um designs they're already requiring different um events it used to be every
100 Year event or whatever and and so then now they they know that they have to design it differently because we get more um extreme extreme thank you rain events so not necessarily less rain it's
just going to change how much we get when if that makes sense yeah you'll have you'll be wetter and drier and hotter right more green BS right maybe um La last year 3.4 so a
little bit lower than 20 23 but still more than 2.6 and then the other thing too to keep in mind is some actually there are some already in Woodland Cove that have the storm water Pond system and and going forward um most of the
development is going to be in this in the southern system and they're going to be required to be on storm water ponds as well so I'm sure like you said here it's going to dilute it come down a bit Plus what's happening too is when you
first build your house people are putting in this sod you you're watering enormous amounts you know I mean just ridiculous um whereas once those have been established then you're going to start watering less so even the ones that are currently in wood that's say
the ones that are currently on uh City water for irrigation they're going to be watering only if they change their settings which we found out two years ago a lot of people didn't and so we're that's education and and so on and going
to continue working on that but um and you know from the engineering standpoint we struggle to be optimistic because we need to design a system that is prepared for the worst day we ever going to have assuming everyone does the wrong thing
so you know we have to keep that in mind when we're designing these systems but uh for you and needing to make decisions on planning and infrastructure Investments understanding kind of the assumption this goes a long way to least help us so um so summing all that up I
think 2050 is a reasonable planing it's 25 years it's the length of typical bonds um when we look at the projections of within the range of those peing factors between a th000 gallons per minute and 1,700 gallons per minute would be your reasonable targets for
additional capacity not consideration of storage um so we're recommending you know considering a f based water PL construction to try to help manage the capital cost but also um to provide the
C you need um and some of the discussions we had last meeting were steel filters or concrete filters so we looked at that I talked to a couple of suppliers uh and they provided me quotes for Steel fers unfortunately steel is
very expensive right now so as you might expect so um get it from CH s and this is kind of what we saw when we had during the initial study that steel filters were expensive which allowed us to go a different direction
uh but we looked at it again hoping that we could come up with a um I'll call an incremental kind of expandability option um so we did our best and we went so Item B is the the layout we currently
have so that would be a water plant that produces 2 100 gallons per minute it has the 750,000 Gall fear well and it has the larger caring system uh that that's details but so we estimated that was 23.2
mil so um based on um some discussion we had uh with City staff we looked at reducing the clear well down to 600,000 and going to a smaller cing system without a scrubber that's option D so we were able to
remove through some just design uh adjustments we are able to remove 1.4 Million by doing that what do you mean with no scrubber that so gas chlorine uh if you ever have a leak um in a on ton
system I was recommending a gas scubber so you could address the chlorine gas on site and and if you had a Le if you had a Le if you had with 150b cylinders they're much smaller uh an alternative option is automatic shot that's what you
currently have at your K Point PL so we we are able to remove all that equipment and go to 150s instead it's a little bit more complicated for operators it takes a little bit more time to manage that system they're switching cylinders a little bit more but it's smaller less equipment cost a little less cost from
equipment um and it doesn't have the scrubber either so that you could add that later you could go to larger cylinders and add a scrubber later you could you could add a choring a bigger choring room front the billing if exped the facility but based on theity of the
plant we felt comfortable that we could 50 cylinders we just have more of them um they're smaller so the and the risk of a leak is less didn't we just have a problem at the North treatment the South treatment plant with the cylinders and had to replace them or do something with
them not the cylinders um it wasn't the cylinders it was The Regulators for so it was it wasn't a it wasn't like a public safety concern it was just chemical feet there's a leak and you don't have the scers then what happens um so you die
I'm just kidding just kidding you work at the fire department all the fire department what's the's the C mitigating the you know fixing it there's a leak um this it's $1.4 million
that we're saving by now right so um when you do when you utilize one ton cylinders um if you would have a uh the EPA and ocean require risk management plans
to on record to manage that so You' work at the fire department and emergency uh staff to address it that's why we typically recommend a scrubber if you have one tons because of the the amount
of area that it would impact the other thing is it's one unit that's leaking whereas if you have 15 PB unit you have multiple units the chances of all of them leaking at the same time are pretty much n unless you whatever so you're
thinking there's only one that's going to leak which is much smaller so if you can kind of think in that ter it's one ton is it's got one ton of gas coring 150 P got so it's a factor of quite a
bit less so the sphere of impact is quite a bit smaller which which does not require or o what actually does scub do sorry1 million yeah it takes the chlorine gas sucks it into a unit and and scrubs it
it removes so it's no longer it's a gas yeah so it so it it's airor okay fling TS to settle so it kind of floats across the ground but that the scrubber essentially sucks in that the
gas and neutralizes it so so we we removed those that's option D we went to the smaller system um but that's still 2,100 G water then to look at the steel filter
options I removed the concrete uh filters and I added for option C I added one steel filter unit that added um 1.7 million so that got us to 22 half and then I added the second steel unit that
we could add the future if needed and that got us to 24.5 so really there was no benefit to go to the steel so my recommendation is option which I came up with is rather than
building a 2100 water plant because if you remember the peaking factor fored is between 1,00 and 1700 1700 would be a a reasonable Target that's conservative that we don't change our behavior on peing Factor we stay at a 3.6 we're
still covered uh by 2050 for our demand um and it would allow us to reduce some filter concrete filter space in addition to that looking at the layout so and it's hard to see a little
bit but the um the filters on the left there we have two sets of of so there's four codes two on the left two on the right what we're recommending is get rid of the left treatment train and make three smaller filds in the right treatment train so you're essentially
reducing that much square footage of the facility and you're you're you so you reduce your square footage and you reduce your treatment capacity to 1,700 g a minute ultimately cutting um some cost from that that option D that I
showed you so that is probably the best case scenario where we still get a capacity that we can work with we reduce the cost of the facility a little bit more um and there will be plenty of space to the west to expand the future if we
want well so would be more there will be more people on on the system to pay for it so that's that's the thing is it's kind of 22 or chck fr8 because now the existing people are actually going to
help pay for future people you know so that's why I'm really reluctant to build this so far out you know to even 2050 seems like lot but I I I understand you don't really want to build it less just because then you're building every five
years or 2050 is very common for treatment when you're talking treatment plant assign to that with the smaller capacity um how much does that shorten the time period we have to repaint the other
tow no storage capacity it's the storage pce so if you're probably reduce the storage of the facility to 600,000 gallons and what I would propose is the the footprint of that that clear well that's within the building footprint we're
calling that the pumping chamber that's about 200,000 gallons everything outside of the building would be an additional 400 so 600 total we could we could bid the four additional 400 as a bid alternate could be an easy that's an easy design U that where we can have
that chop it off and the contractor can give us a separate number for that additional 400,000 gallons into storage u i estimate it's probably about a million dollar we'll let the contractors actually tell us but um so we could remove a million dollars from the waterly cost by REM storage but that
again would sign you'd have to invest that in future storage very soon after that no um and um and again building this water plant would allow us to rehab King's Point Tower um right away with the
400,000 if the P's even online because we have the dist pass oh okay even without storage so um so to help I guess provide some context on what the storage means and when you might need additional
storage so but we have to answer Peter's question then so if we were to build let's just say with only the 200,000 gallon let's just say storage capacity can we take the Kings Point water tower offline long enough to rehabilitate it
you'll have enough you'll have enough pumping capacity at the uh the new C water plant to compensate for the loss in that storage for a short period okay so it'll still give us fire
coverage okay is it expensive to do the 200,000 G pumping chamber and the 400 separate or is it the same as if you just did one 600 um in one project or several project one
project um it should well it's going to be more expensive to build more storage if that's what you're asking like you're you're taking one big one and making two so is that more expensive than just building the one we would typically do that in design anyways so you can so for maintenance in
the future so you can shut down a portion to inspect the clear well we would have some level of baffling and partitioning so that's kind of a natural part of design we would just bid it as alternance you get that in the future so it doesn't really change yeah I think that's a good idea to bid it as an
alternate we see the cost I mean and if it's a million let's just say and we're already talking 20 million it's you know maybe it's worth doing now so we can at least look at it would be cheaper than building a new tower so but you could
put a clear well you could do the 400 gon clear well underground storage in later you could you could add that after so you could build a 200,000 pumping chamber and then in a couple years add to 400,000 and clear well more it cost
it would cost you quite a bit more to it as a standalone project because now you're remobilizing you're re Excavating got all structures so we try to do as as we can in one shot um but we understand sometimes you need to yeah I mean if the
400,000 clearw storage came in at an additional 2 million we might think twice about it but maybe you know it's likely the cheapest storage you're going to purchase because it's got no Coatings it's great it doesn't have any Aesthetics it's it's very simple uh it
is going to be the cheapest storage but and so here here was my other question this is kind of getting okay so we we could actually do an inground storage in the future as well we don't need a tower necessarily correct you can build um a
GSR Pump Station anywhere in your system that would function the same as cwise it might be a little bit less but I think you have more ongoing um expenses electrical and a small building you have to maintain so but that's something we can look at in the future
often times people go to ground store res boards if there's AE concerns they just don't want to look at it or there's another hydraulic so um so if we were looking at storage in your future need and we
assume we're at a 3.6 peing Factor uh by 2035 uh you'll if you have the 600,000 gallon clear o at the water plant and 2100 gallon per minute of pumping so we put slightly larger palps inand but still 1,700 Gall per minute of
treatment that would last you till 2035 period that's it 10 years 10 years not even because it live until 2026 27 probably so you're eight years of life out of it and then you're going
to be at of the assuming you stay at your peing Factor 600 will hold you so then you might as well do the 200 do the 200 storage capacity and then if you have to add storage in eight years then
you might as well do you know more than so here's well if you only do the 200 we're we need a tower basically right away yeah right all right so and then I will
quit I have so this is at all options and I I cave all this with 3.6 speaking Factor you can change City Behavior this all gets quite a bit better right but I'm not an optimist
neither am I so by 2040 if you you would be able to get to 2040 with your storage if you build a 750,000 gallon and you had a 2100 gallon per minute water plant and 2800 G per minute so that would give you an
additional 10 year or additional five years of storage or of runway for storage so again you'd have to make you'd have to build the plant we've initially proposed so that's a little bit more EXP so we don't could do do the cost cutting and S with the
larg five years additional I think you should do the other one so I'm I'm more optimistic than you Erin I I honestly I'm not I think we do here's here's the thing we don't know how many
new homes are going to be coming online we don't know what 10 years so you're saying with the 17700 um treatment uh 600 um storage um um we're talking 10 years at least okay we don't know
what happen and we don't know if the 3.6 is going to hold or if it's going to go down or or whatever um and I just I don't want to saddle the existing users with that much debt I see this with all
due respect if we had built the cell phone for the incoming wet Cod we wouldn't be having this problem and we wouldn't be settling the new users with it we would already have been paying for it for the last 10 years we would have an adequate one I really really don't want to save a million dollars now and
then it's more like it's more than a million the million is just the difference with the clearwell not the larger we're talking about 4 million from 23.2 to 21.8 now we're not doing the steel
filters it's too expensive we're basically debating B and D right now so between 23.2 and 21.8 I I to get us to 2040 where we won't have to add storage or build anything else related to water
I think it's worth the 1 point four5 million and again this is just an estimate so it could be lower and if I've noticed anything from all of our engineering estimates they tend to be higher than what the bids come back yet that's I'm pretty good at estimating but
I'm not a contractor so it doesn't matter whether it's a million what I'm hearing um Aon telling us is that if we do the 600 gallon clear well 600,000 actually not 600 600,000
gallon clearwell that'll take us out for storage to 2050 no 2035 okay 2035 eight years and and with the 1,700 um pumping capacity or filtering capacity right that takes us out to
2050 that's what you need for the 2050 Demand right you'll still have additional storage right between 2035 and 2050 we'll have to build another Tower or storage if we do D we need to build a new tower sometime around
235 which means we would have to start planning it by 20 3132 to get it online by 2035 correct am I right so if we do be the more expensive but not the most expensive we're good
till 2040 so we won't need to add any storage and storage discussions until 2037 2038 to get it online in 2040 so all in all like 30 million with everything no not for this but if we have to add something
else we will so the there's a lot of things this just so the um water tower having a water tower and the two Wells that we're Drilling and um and Engineering this doesn't include
engineering this doesn't include all of the EXT this is just like upside so just the C just the kind of details the option b is also the laring system so so we could re we could reduce the
cloring system and remove so the the clear well reduction is about 400,000 so that 23.2 is really 22.8 so if we go to 600 if you go if you go to um yeah if you stuck with the six but
all options are with the six well not all but no do we need the larger chlorine system with the 750 should the building a large the 750,000 G clear well does not really get you anything unless you build additional
treat so they kind of go hand yeah so you're going to do option b with the reduced caring system at 22.8 million or option D uh with the 600,000 F reduce Coring system and we would uh cut the
treatment train off so we' bring we bring option D down a little bit more I do probably closer so if I can compartmentalize this a little bit so do we want for storage let's just talk about that piece do we
want the 600 or the 750 750 so you the slide that we about yet was kind of sensitivity analysis if we flatten the curve on the peing factor what is the our storage
need look like if we are able to bring that down um even if go back a if it's down to three yeah split the difference 3.2 then we wouldn't need more storage0 we to
keep what we have even longer needing more right so we would be good we could push the 2040 days with the 750 even further out yeah well there's a there's a point too where like eron thing 25
years is kind of what you want um anything more than that you're then you're looking at um a lot of cost to maintain it and to repair it and maintenance and things like that but if we can get our peing Factor down and push out needing any treatment any you
any on the S system till 2050 which is 25 years that would be great I mean that that would be ideal if we can get the peaking Factor down and then we put the 750 in and we don't need anything for 25 years on the S system if you if you put the 750 in you would also need to build
yeah see and so what I'm wondering yeah so you have yeah you don't do the 750 storage without the 2100 filter so you either do the 1700 with the 600 or you
do 2100 for the 750 and and the 750 and the 21 and 750 makes sense for 2050 but it we don't have the people to support that that's that's my concern that's that's my concern and and then we have
to have a hundred homes a year we have to have that so then you're under that that done and so if you say as Brian was asking if you say we're not at that 3.6 peaking Factor let's say we're somewhere
in between the 26 and the 36 that could still take us out with a what ,700 and 600 storage that could still take us out to 2035 or 2040 probably probably closer to 2040 by that time we would know and
see what we have in terms of people and homes and developments I don't know it's it's kind of like gambling I wish we had a crystal ball it's not an easy
decision um I I think the struggle is anything you do as a second phase is going to be more expensive and that's the big decision that needs to be paid is are you willing to kick that part of the can down the road and pay more need it or in it now but it's going to hurt
to invest it now again this is insane amounts of money and I don't say this LLY but for a million and a half right now it seems worth not spending five down the road it's not going to be cheaper and in the in the scheme of 23
versus 21 or 22 and 20 whatever that's not that much money like all of it's over 20 so it's all expensive so one more million on it is not you know it's like 20 cents on a dollar like it's not that much when you look at the whole scheme of it what happens if
we don't get 100 people a year then those of us who are on water will be paying a lot but we're paying a lot anyways whether it's 23 million or 21 million my bill is going up a lot hamper the growth that's the question yeah I don't think so people
are pretty upset a couple years ago and it was going around with Lov they're very clear that that was their number one issue and some people and I say this with all respect they didn't stop using the water though they complained left and right about the
bills but our peing factor it's still 3.4 yeah no I so agree with I'm just saying that this is going to be a huge increase no matter what we do uh and and people are really going to be up
that's why I think these meetings are going be oh yeah I think and if I may we depending on the direction we we may have an opportunity to bid some ad alternates that can help
rightsize this at the time um you know what we what we really want to accomplish tonight is just to continue that path forward to get to bidding and if the direction and you know Aaron and I have talked is to have you know the base bid be this and then have an add
alternate of this and then another maybe another third option you know that would get us to continue to design which we need to do right there's a lot of things that need to happen between now and you know May or June when we would bid um
but we need to keep going we kind of need that direction so I think from what I'm hearing is you know we're somewhere in between this option e which is the 1700 um and and maybe 600,000 clear well with the smaller chlorine system up to
the kind of a hybrid of D which is the 2100 with 750 and the smaller chlorine system I think we're kind of smaller chlorine system system that's what I would is bigger storage but reducing floring regard okay
yeah um so you're talking about um so we're saying 600 and 1700 and 600 is there a possibility to have like a an alternate bid for the
21 no that' be two big packages it'd be like configuring two different buildings basically if you recall we would Lop off that whole right right so and we reconfigure most build so it gets really compated I
mean I I I totally get kath is saying um I I wish we knew I mean if you look at the um numbers here in your packet if we have to bond for 25 million we're talking a 94.2 6% increase over three years that's a 30% increase in water
water rates over over the next three years so and that if I may and that's assuming no growth so if we grow at 100 homes a year you know that could go down we'd have to factor that in but that's just a snapshot in time of right now
based on the revenue we generate yeah so so jper we were chatting today it's like $700 a household more so we have about 2200 accounts and let's just use a round number of $22 million because it's easy it's
$10,000 per account over 20 years plus interest so take that into account um it's basically 500 to$ 700 probably like $700 a year a year for 20 years that's
like in addition to what they're paying right now it's all right so we need to we need to wrap this up we are so Brian where are you at I know you're really good
at into this where are you at with this uh so the so we talked about now was basically between B and D that basically 1700 was 600 storage or 2100 with 750 storage uh
both options with still have the smaller cylinders for for CH yes so so B would be two 22.2 million if you do the smaller chlorine and D would be 21.8 so you're basically getting I think
another another 150,000 in the clear well for what is that $400,000 which gets us for sure out to 2050 maybe longer if we get our peaking fion down sorry the the you know the spreadsheet with all leing factors is that a
workable document where you can put in like send it and type in like 3.4 and 3.6 is 3.6 not right now but know Jasper and then he could forward it so we can all play around with numbers absolutely right no no I know um so I
guess that right um's b or d it's a letter b d or E I would say e is an option too I mean it's it's at 1.7 you just have to be okay with future conversations about potential water system expansion just be aware of it um
if we do build a lot more houses or we you maybe we're at 100 or more then that time will come sooner than later for that addition additional storage so just be prepared for that conversation if you go with an e um you know D or B the
600,000 to 750,000 that really addresses the storage need until at least 2040 assuming a 3.6 peing factor which we hope we can get down so it gets us to 2050 which is 25 years see I think going out to 2040 is kind of the r we should
go because I think otherwise we're just stradling too much debt for the existing users and and we don't know I mean we're talking 15 years from now we don't know what that's what what prices are going to do what interest is going to do what what housing is going to do that's kind
of my you want to be that get us to 2040 D gets us to 2035 yeah so it's eight years yeah I think you're right yeah so so the 750 gets us 750 have 750
to get us to 2040 and then if we get our PE Packer down we can push us to 2050 which would be another 10 years which would be awesome because then we wouldn't need to discuss that till you know anyhow that's kind of where I'm at whatever the
204 and that's the 23 yes 22 it'd be 22.2 if we red if we go to the smaller chlorine system let's see more storage 22.2 larger clear
well larger capacity small fling get you as far as you can on storage and treat sorry should this question first slide but does the Metro Council estimates jive with your guys
experience um well that's a whole different conversation um they've really so for the 2050 plan they've really they've reduced us a little bit on as far as our rate of growth but they've done that to the whole metro area as a whole that rate of growth is decreasing
is what they're projecting now you know they're they're projecting that we're only going to build 35 houses you know as you get closer to 2050 I don't I don't know I mean maybe they know something we don't know but um we have
available land we have infrastructure you know I don't I don't think we're going to get down to 35 that was more like David can fill in that's like post um 2009 2010 times but they're saying that's going to be the existing you know
basically from 30 to 50 so short that you feel like the House serve that we make I would say their their current projected imagine 2050 plan yes I would that's what I would say um because it's
35 hous it's on average between 2030 and 2050 30 35 houses a year what 2040 PL it had us at 14,400 for 2040 so they they've really taken a step back and we've asked them and they're just they haven't really given us a
clear answer but they're increasing our density requirements so yes there's things aren't driving so yeah we're gonna wrap this up in about three minutes their estimates are overly conservative
estimate Global folks yeah well so so that their estimate has come down significantly for us here's the other thing if let me ask you this Ain if we go off for bid with the 750 storage
capacity also 2100 filtering capacity um and it comes back I mean way high what would it take to reduce it to go back to the six 17 and 600 how what would it cost to do that
and and actually scale it back well you kind of have half of it Reen engineered right now don't you well we we I mean we've you know sketched out options we to
redesign because I'm just worried that if this comes in and let is rather than 228 or 23 and it comes in at 28 then what are we going to do right drawing that's well that's what I'm asking is
what is it going to cost it's going to cost us another million just to re drive if you will so that's that's the other consideration I'm sorry happen with any of them though I mean even if we do e like it come back astronomically High I
mean that was you know early which I love that that is kind of the benefit as you avoid getting that far down that P right and being just like shocked by right is they give you costs so if we truly have that concern um we should bring a
Contractor on board before we did it and actually get a all AR estimate um and we can do that and just have them estimate like 75% or even
detail estimate so we're not shocked how much that yeah I I like that idea because I'm just afraid that we're going to get sticker shock and then we're going to go oh my
gosh what can we do now so um we can do that we have a couple contract in charge to estimate I know that might kind of put us out a few more weeks but you guys are you you like that idea what what if I may sorry I think we can
do I mean it sounds like we're leaning more towards a b yeah to get us to 2040 I think we can just say eron get the get the estimate get the contractor to do the estimate you know start continuing to design B and we can keep going um in conjunction
with it just so we don't delay it you know we've already kind of delayed about a month or so from the bid when we were you know I want to get started this summer fall you know otherwise we kind of get to the point where it's we could have you know so I think we can do it in conjunction I guess is long story short
all right that and you're still not fired all right with that we we need to be because there a little open for our Poli she
knows staff reports yes I want to R talk a little bit about the wedding venue yes and see if get some direction as far as what we want to do specially that permit or just say no you know just some direction because we don't have a meeting for mom we were going to try to
work it in here but but it could ran out of time yeah the Farm Winery no no one one spe a neighbor wants to get married there did and it's as you can imagine
caused a stir amongst the neighborhood now because she she did the right thing and tried to reach out to everyone and say I want to do this my daughter wants to get married there and