--------- okay um it's 5:30 um so I'm going to call the meeting to order are we recording yes okay thank thank you you sit closer to us yeah you could you could actually she wants to be
Incognito all right so uh this is the work session for Minista June 17th 2024 present this evening uh myself uh Lisa wh and the mayor and then council members present are Kathleen ref and McGregor Peter vickri and staff pres
we have um Alison fski WSB engineer um and um an what's your last name again my um city clerk and then um Brian Grim Finance director and David AEL community
development director the others are absent this evening so we have um number of items uh we're going to talk about budget Levy considerations Park dedication fee and swamp update and if we have time Kathleen and I will give you a quick update on our meeting with
a2s and regarding um and we'll explain the cam um so with that um handing over to Brian yes yeah thanks Madam mayor and councel so hopefully everyone had a chance to review digest the the council
uh work session packet for the uh the budget information I tried to um I guess summarize some items or get some some high points and more just to generate discussion with the council as far as you know what things were sort of
I don't want to say locked into but I sort of locked into or committed to as far as you know obviously Union contracts and some of those things are are in place through the second year of a three-year contract for all of those for 2025 um and then things that more of the council has discretion with as far as um
you know listed you know roads adding staff or or those type of things is obviously generated you know through personel committee via the or you know up the council so I tried to add just a few other I guess um informational pages to
sort of help with the discussion too um but um maybe I say I start with the the memo and just um if anyone has any questions I just maybe ask as as yeah we'll just we'll just ch inett informal yeah yeah exactly but yeah I
guess that first item down at the bottom of page two I guess is items I guess I you know categorizes you know items the city's committed to obviously compensation one of the biggest one you know all cities you know organizations deal with um basically just based on you
know the you know the not the union contracts I think are between like three and a half and 5% depend you know for the second year depending you know between Public Works and and police and that's the sergeants and I guess even are the CSO unions um so you you look at that impact it's you know roughly about
you know 4% or 240,000 you know to the levy impact there um yeah is the other items are are are you know more related I guess to you know that um Insurance slash you know benefits types items I
mean General liab bilan workers comp has been you know going up pretty substantially you know the nice thing is we we've had a a really good experience mod experience modification so that's kept that workers and going up as much as it could have I think our our rating is like at a 75 which means we pay three
fours of what we you know a reg our organization has regular or the average workplace incidents or injuries so and that's helped keep that down but it's still it's still increasing um the property liability same there cafeteria plan we'll probably talk
about that more as we get into the budget but you know at the insurance we'll we'll get more information like in late June July as far as at least an initial uh estimated impact of what's happening in the insurance health insurance industry or realm so um so
there's that and then um and yeah I don't think there's a whole lot of wiggle room here unless you find out from the insurance company yeah whatever that it's not going to go up that much so correct yeah and then yeah and then lastly I just had the
inflationary impacts um there as far as just you know that's you know anything from fuel utilities Etc it just seems like I know they say that it's trying to soften but I know they they've delayed doing any rate you know adjustments or decreases at the even the Federal
Reserve level just because they still want inflation to come down I know I even had that individually today I had part of the day off to uh look at a at a vehicle and a vehicle cost or actually made a purchase because it was getting too uh hard to for four people to drive
three vehicles in the family so but uh I don't know car pooling doesn't always work what rate did you get oh as far as or H the financing of the vehicle like just under 4% like 3.9 60 Equinox or
Equinox Equinox okay so sorry to go on that little but just even more as a as an individual or personal example that inflation is is still yeah painful yeah costs are there so so ultimately yeah I guess at the top of Page Three there you know if you look at
a subtotal you know it's probably five five and six% you know 350,000 so that's almost like a a baseline as far as what we we need to do so um item two you know I think we obviously um at one of the last meetings we had um I guess yeah the
we have been using fund balance I guess I'll start with that um and we've used what 193,000 this year as budgeted and we'll see when the actual numbers come in but um the the good item that we adopted you know was either at the last meeting and the one before that was the
um the Henman County taking on the um assessing valuations valuation services so that is going to save us about 200,000 on the Citywide Levy so if we sort of just apply that there we can sort of um basically get back to a
starting point of you know Balan budget pretty much you know should be pretty structurally Balan there we do have to get to a balanced budget um yeah yeah right so um so that's some a good thing so sort of a an offset are available that those expenses will come off for
the tune of about 200,000 and that'll help plug that budget difference or whatever so um I know another um item I think I think there's the Personnel committee meeting tomorrow right as far as that and I think um so uh B there um is uh depending on if there'd be any
additional employees you know added whether what what I was going to say here in this category is you know we can't even hire the 15th officer I'm not sure that we should be budgeting for a 16th officer I mean it's been we're
already halfway into the year and we still don't have a 15th officer so um again to try and kind of keep our our increase Levy increase I would say don't budget for a 16th officer until
2026 you know kind of I like that um and then the public works I think you know maybe hiring a public works person obviously we're going to hire somebody to replace Mike yes correct so that's that's not a part of this um and then I would assume whomever we're hiring isn't
going to be making the same money as Mike was well we've already replaced Mike I think tomorrow's personel Comm meting we're talking about a supervisor position okay that's I'm assuming where the budge for public work is coming a little bit and then yeah whether I guess just to even have like a general
discussion with Council if and obviously yeah during the budget process whether there would be the need to add another public work's employee obviously some of that would you know what would be their you know we sort of added you know to the water department and sewer and and done some I guess more not not making a whole department
but segmentation of of those so um but whether there's a need for I guess any other you know additional employees in that area of Public Works I guess that would be ultimately for Gary to present and personel committee the council to work it out and discuss it maybe but if you do maybe it could be a midterm
higher y yeah correct you know versus um at the beginning that would save at least 1% or something like that and I think yeah that's where I think I you know with you know the 50 to 150 obviously the public works is probably a little more on the lower end just based on the salary range and the police would
be more on the higher end but yeah I think but I'm just thinking if if somebody is added in public works it wouldn't be some it would be an entry level or yeah it would be low usually it just depend sometimes on what type of experience if it's someone that really has you know 10 15 years experience and
sometimes we've been doing the collateral on grade three grade four or something so but um obviously yeah decisions the uh the council and things that um yeah be between both the Personnel committee I think even you know see Paul and Gary AR are here they
if they really feel strongly or something they would have to make that Cas they can make that case I'm just saying I mean it just seems we we budget it for a 15th officer what last for this year and we're we're not there yet you know so I just doesn't point to budget
for another 16 in 2025 W be likely won't have the 15th in 2025 um and then their next one here's my take on the next the the financial software okay here's the thing I think there's things that we need okay and
then things that we want and I think this is a want and I think we should put this off we don't need it next year I don't think we should put money aside for it next year but maybe think about it in future years again because we're
looking at you know 9 10 12% increase so I think this is a want for right now well that's my the concern is when it becomes a need like the cameras and this way we'd have the money set aside to use for it so I I I don't know if this would qualify under an equipment certificate
but that might be something you could do with um with an equipment certificate it's more softt related so it might be a little bit of a gray area yeah but then uh the other thing to consider is when we talk about the CIP I think we should add continue adding to that so that
eventually so you could take it out of the CIP budget too potentially but yeah you'll probably see in August yeah there's some there might be some a big ticket know Paul will probably have a squad or two and garyi I think had something at least in his ponary CIP for you know I can't remember exactly what
it was was you know potentially A2 $300,000 one of their bigger pieces of equipment right so that's the only you know hard part is as far as you know adding that to that and what's the best way and I think it's the reason I mean eventually we really should and we
should have been doing this more so but we need to wean ourselves off of equipment certificates unless the rates go down to 1% again or what something like that then it makes sense but when the rates are you know four five% you really don't want to be borrowing
money are we talking about the the financial software yeah well kind of it's kind of both yeah because they be funded usually through that I had a good conversation with with Jasper today a long one on this because I worked for a 1.6 billion doll company that did go
through Oracle and it was an absolute fabulous disaster um that really hurt the company badly and I but in again was I don't understand why we need $300,000 worth of
financial software I'm not getting it so I mean basically it'd be an all-encompassing system so it' be you know our our general ledger our payroll our utilities and pretty much there's these conversions are usually one to twoe processes so it's you know it's
obviously the uh software whether it's you know most of them are what subscription as a service now or whatever but a lot of it is comes into the setup the training the the implementation of it you know so you know the 300,000 might be a little on
the the higher end but I mean it it colleagues I've talked to that have have gone through this process and it's one of these things where I think it would be beneficial to do especially as the city grows we might we're probably going to outgrow our banion sofware we have right now I know it's it's it's a
difficult transition so in some ways it's like if the council says no I'm not going to be like a to upset whatever but um but it is something we probably should look at I mean it'd be nice to probably have converted whether it's by 20 29 or 30 or sometime in the
next four or five years it might get to the point where it would just be better for both internal and external users to have a more sophisticated Financial software it's just a matter of trying to set aside some money to whether it's 50 or 75,000 for a couple few you know
years and I think you know minimally we probably need you know to think you know 175 200,000 you know in depends probably maybe the high end would be more like you know 250 300,000 so and well that makes some sense go ahead so what what would be the advantages of you must have
some idea the software you want what what does it do that the current software doesn't do I mean our current software is more access based so it's you know some of the reports it generates for both even um you know just internal users for the Departments as
well as like what we can put online I mean right now we're doing some things where you got to sport to excel to make things like look better and stuff where obviously a lot of the better Financial software have a lot you know um more bells and whistles more bells and whistles that can even do um you
know like with the you know probably you know might be able to do a little more with some of the utility stuff we do or whatever but I think you know some of that we've been able to integrate you know with the uh our itron software as far as you know more reads and and things like that you know so there is things that we're sort of doing in the
that we can do but at some point I we're going to need to almost do like a an overall Finance conversion versus just sort of add-on here supplement there but here's where oh I was just G to say about the billing I'm talking with Jasper if we want to ever switch to the monthly water billing we need better
yeah yeah yeah that's guess what I was trying to we've been able to do something but what I'm what I'm getting at is that right now what are we leving for our CIP 150,000 yes and if we add 50,000 every year to that in very short
order we are going to have 300,000 400,000 every year that we are levying for CIP and you can use that money to buy the software so that's and then if if it happens to fall in a year where you need equipment for public works or
police then you can use an equipment certificate for that purchase so that's why I'm saying is I think we're kind of double levying for this that's that's to me it's a CIP it's Capital it's Capital
outlay it's um and why wouldn't we just use our CIP budget for that we could yeah we could use some of like our existing cash especially you know cash Levy or whatever and then I know the only thing I know when when Gary is back here from the budget stuff in August I know he's ran into you know and I you
know see it in through the the claims that come through and through the financial software you know the some of the increased repairs and maintenance costs on some of the equipment so yeah I mean to I guess the mayor's point you know we have to do a bigger equipment certificate in a certain year potentially to and Gary's going to have
to be the advocate for that you know does he need to replace you one piece of big equipment or one or two you know over two or three years or whatever and that's where we just have to we have to balance that but I see you almost would set aside some of that money is what you're almost saying from that well if if we're budgeting um again if it's
150,000 now and we budget we add to that in 2025 50,000 now it's 200 in 26 it's 250 in 27 it's it's uh 300 in 28 it's 350 I mean so it will continue to grow as long
as we stick to we stick to that that would be the only thing because some years it's always easy to almost that's why I've been preaching we have to do this yeah yeah no I no I think that's I think that's fair yeah so I I'd say we for sure W to I guess maybe
make sure that we up the CIP Levy from 150 to 200 even if we can you know other set aside some we have a higher Baseline next year so even if you added to your CIP budget or Levy 60,000 for 2025 and
you added to the roads because I still think we add need to add to the roads you added to the roads 100,000 that is a total of 2% so or two and a half perc and so if you if you did everything here
eliminating the um the the financial software that's a 9% increase correct yeah I think yeah pretty much here we so it's below the 10 which I think would be good if we can be below a double digit but
yeah so like yeah so based of that initial presentation try to keep it around that yeah n n and a half maybe I mean see where things come in but um I I to me budgeting you know 75 to 100,000 into Financial
software it's almost like double dipping so double double how do you say okay yeah I see what you're saying yeah it's um no I think we can strategize for online yeah so and there might be you proposing we do the road Levy at
them the road Levy would we'd add a 100,000 so that would be um I think for 20 no no it's at we're actually levying 850 because it's 350 for the debt Levy and then 450 um for so 800 so then next year we would
then add another 100 which would be 900 right but for the actual roads Levy not the roads project from last year like it would go to from 450 to 550 on spreadsheet on page right correct yes yeah yeah
corre Brian was saying kind of flat you know not increasing it and I think we should continue to increase that yeah that's the other thing you know we're going to have to look at is we've been talking about um another bond in 25
or 26 probably not till 26 and that's so if keep in mind if you do another bond in 26 that's going to gobble up a lot of that that 450 500 too so we have to keep that in mind as well maybe maybe that bond isn't going to be until 27 you know
we have to see how that but I don't I I think if we just leave it then we're not making Headway and we need to make Headway in that oh I know that I don't want to go down as low as we did last year so yeah and I think that was part of just the balance but to get it to the
12% we had landed at last year um because I think that's even where we shaved off at the end was I think was we had the road we not be down 50,000 or whatever which I mean just is fine and I think we're doing a decent amount and and it'll be nice to see once we balance up the
2023 projects there may even be some dollars that we can maybe shift over to the the current debt fund as well as maybe even a little bit to our our road maintenance fund where our balance is like one and a half million and they now might be able to be 1.71 higher you know or something so
which I think I think we're we're sitting a lot better than Ro it's fun you know several years ago or whatever so but I know there's there's more than enough to do out there too so right that's the thing that's yeah and it doesn't get any cheaper so um okay so yeah so I know yeah they said
you probably going to you know top of P or I supposed to be covered I guess then have the roads and then the CIP so one thing we'll probably I mean once we present the the Capital Equipment plan and in August is we will have probably the opportunity to issue the bond later
this year to cover the the the wells you know we'll need to finance that as well as that um the water main wind Wen C you know for you know 3 know 7 750 so there might be an opportunity to tack on an equipment certificate maybe you know
this year and then set aside some more money out of the cash Levy for next I mean there's ways to right to potentially balance it between 25 and 26 um we may have to also float a bond in 25 for the treatment plant correct yeah
so and then we can see what what interest rates are going to do if we don't have to float an equipment certificate this year interest rates might be going down they're talking about it yeah at least one week this year maybe more next year yeah so we can kind of keep tabs on that but my my
comment on some of your taxes per capita comparison is um oh sure you know and it seems like we're kind of cherry-picking some of the cities and I think what we should do is if we're going to compare we should compare the cities that like
surround men Trista like it should include St Bonnie and Shorewood and independ and if you're going to include Long Lake then you got to include Maple plane you know and in other I mean I I get Medina because they're very similar to us in
terms of makeup but corkran would be another good one to compare us to I just think it looks a little bit cherry pick to me but I'm not saying you did that intentionally but no yeah I think if we included sure would it wouldn't be much difference I mean to me I guess I I
don't know what the council thinks but I think you know Oro Mound and Vina are of are most comparables I I would say it's NE well I shouldn't maybe even make that commentary but I don't think St Bonnie I think they I mean they're running into problems with their financials and and yeah you know as far as you know so I
don't know how much benefit it shows to you know but the other thing too I wanted to point out is um it's not a good comparison to do a a per capita thing because you don't pay your property taxes on a per capita basis it's just a comparison I get that but I
still think yeah I mean because I know some like to look at the tax rate but to me it's like how much are you spending per person your residence I think is yeah it's my personal preference better okay I mean that's so I know I mean yeah I think if if we added in a couple of these other ones I think we still would
would I think we would but I think it would look like we're not trying to cherry pick but anyhow just that's fine so yeah it was more just to at least set some of the at least show that I think we
definely aren't I know when back in when I started here in 0607 I think we were maybe more at the top of that rate what is our tax rate now do you know is it it's under 20% it's like 19 19 and a half or something so so even with that metric I think we compare we we compare
very I guess yeah to me I I mean if you compared us to Mound on the tax rate we yeah we're way below them so no yeah and there yeah there's might be a couple others that are less than us but I think um it's pretty few and far between I
guess to me I this would be something I think that the council could uh be I don't know whether it's be proud of you know if anyone tries to say we're too high a tax City I guess pretty quick you can come back and say well we can't control the county we can't control the schools what do you if you look at on a
factual basis and this is right they can go to the state auditor's office and look at it I think it's something that um everyone as council members can say that that's not a factual statement if they say their city taxes are gu sir
so okay yeah I guess comments questions let's move on to the next one Park dedication so at the um so this has come up a couple times and I just thought real quick we'll give staff Direction um
the park education fee I'm not the park commission was this has happened a couple of times when the a subdivision happen on Parcels by the lake for instance so what happens is there's a percentage but then it's capped at 25,000 so it's a percentage of the value
of the of the lot and then it's capped and and we're not the park commission isn't saying redo the whole park dedication thing not at all they're just saying should we look at that cap because that cap was established like 20
years ago do you know I yeah I mean it's been that my whole time here yeah it it's it's like 20 years ago maybe even more so they were just wondering if the counil doesn't want to considering revisiting that cap that that portion of
the ordinance and maybe raising it to 35 or 40 or whatever and we'd have to do some comparisons to see what other cities are doing yeah all right all right then then swamp yes this
is always the most interesting one Speaking of spending money no um so uh swamp program the storm water Asset Management program the city um has this program to
um that provides scores of the storm water ponds throughout the city both public and private um as an indicator of uh storm water ponds or best management practices that might need attention um so the city has done a
really good job as far as the the public side of it all of our public ones were a um we're at a a score um that's higher than 65 which is kind of what we talked about being hey if it's 65 we should maybe take a look at it so anything
public we're good on um The Challenge comes that the majority of these assets um in the city are privately owned and maintained and so we've we've reached out um and with some varied success as far as getting some information back um but
it's just bringing it back to council for discussion on you know what would the council like to see staff doing with the swamp scores as far as looking at some of these these privately owned um best management for bmps um in the city so the I kind of set
the stage as far as where we're at right now and where we might be going with regulatory agencies so um the next permitting cycle for the PCA comes up in 2025 so next year and there have been Rumblings that included
in that next um permit renewal will be some element of hay cities you have to make an effort with regards to privately owned bmps now what that looks like I don't know um but certainly I I think you know
talking to my colle minist has certainly been doing that already now we'll see what the permit language says when the time comes so we can cross that bridge when we get there if I drive 100 miles west of here would any of this pertain any of
the ponds out there um I don't believe so because it has to do with the side the the size of the community I I I can't believe unless I have this have misunderstood this whole thing but what you're telling me
is you're going to have some sort of magic thing where you're going to tell people with private ponds that they have to do something and have another assessment on top of it the roads that we already do well we're only talking about ner ponds okay so so we're only
talking about the storm water runoff ponds that were created when a development was put in but if they're private they're owned by well because we are ultimately responsible ultimately the city is
responsible I I think we can take a step back to some extent with minist I I hear what you're saying with regards to these privately owned basins um and and I didn't do the calculation ahead of time but when we look at minus to being a growing Community you've got a lot of
storm water ponds in in Woodland Cove I mean that took up a few pages of the report for for Woodland Cove in and of itself and Hunter Crest being the two bigger ones um and those are new enough that we have the documentation saying hey homeowners association you're
responsible for maintaining these I think that there's um that there's also some outliers some older developments that are maybe on the cusp of you know is there an agreement in place or not we'd have to do some digging to do that we haven't done that um broad brush for
the city so I I think that my my long answer to this is that I think that there are a lot of privately owned um ponds that already have the documentation in place that you know you're responsible for this now whether
or not the HOA management company or the boards know of that that's a good question you know we can certainly and we've been trying to to have this as an education piece certainly Hunter Crest ho they know they know and they've been
budgeting for it uh wood Point knows to and been asking and W Co knows so I think I and I I think that um you know hindsight being 2020 with that question coming up um to to state that you know for the
council to know like a a lot of these pawns the HOAs know about now are there some private ones where they don't know about it I would be willing to bet yes um and so that's where we have a little bit you know if if the the mpca permitting goes down that route and we
are obligated to do some of that and the P the swamp score is below that 65 threshold that we've set um then we might have a little bit more work coming out of us but just just knowing you know just knowing what the
the city's already done and and if this is coming through for the first time with this next permit go around I don't know what that language is going to look like I think it like I said what what we're hearing is it'll probably be to make an effort I think that's already in
place um it it could be I don't know the permit inside and out I've been relying on um my colleagues to tell me already says cities have to make an effort and that's why we've been doing this yeah but I think what Alison's saying is the the rumor is is they're going to
actually crack down F I mean thus far we there's been warnings and we we got audited one year but Rumblings are that they're going to get more serious about it yes we've done things but likely it's not good enough
what I'm gathering is what I'm seeing there are larger communities kind of where I live and such where they're they're now taking an effort in actually doing maintenance which also tells you something they haven't been now they are Chan Prairie
you can see projects around the community where they're cleaning these out and doing them to her point there everyone's nervous about what's coming okay and what we what you're seeing is all HOA oriented no yeah yeah private ones private and
public how much that cost a lot it just depends on how much s there how to get in one there's a corner prominent Corner in Chanhassen that was all trees and fences and Landscaping that people just went and did over the years and all that had to come out took
it all out of there cut all the escors in there cleaned it all out regraded it um right by to Total Wine behind the health the health care facility there in Chanhassen it looks completely different it had to you know
but 20 25 years of nothing ever happening there and they had to come in and do it well I know from talking with Ellison and ring It Through Rivers being on the wed District those PLS are really important
um they capture a lot of phosphorus from these developments you know Brian told me one pound of phosphorus will turn 500 pounde in the lake and so it's really important that those are maintained and
if they're not maintained everything's just running right through them and the of the phos is going into the ls Rivers so um I think it's really important to get these up to Reon it is going to be
expensive I think it's really needed so for that point like the first one on here is the Jennings c one from 1987 it's got sore 19 um we don't know for sure if it is the HOA or not it isn't so it isn't that would fall on us then to so how much
would that cost well so what we what initially so that one I know isn't because we've done work on that one um in the past and um it was our responsibility and so we we've we've worked on that one in the past um so my
I'm 95% certain that what made you say that what made you say it's because when the or so back in the 90s when they were um subdividing and and Jennings Cove was done in the 90s uh one of the ones that was done in the 90s they didn't do an
overlay in other words now what we do is and David can explain it much um better but now what we do is when a devel comes in we do a taxing overlay District so that if the HOA does not and then we make it clear that those ponds are theirs and if the HOA doesn't take care
of it we already have the authority and ability to go in and and fix these uh ponds and then we just tax those um specific properties so we started doing that in the early 2000s I believe so um
we didn't do that prior or before and I and I know that there was some issues with the Jennings Cove storm water Pond and that the city went in and and tried to fix it or make it better and um so that's why I'm thinking that the
Jennings Cove one is probably a in a city-owned one now that doesn't mean that we can't go in and also do a taxing district um you maybe you could that's something our attorney would have to or they would
have to figure out but um was you're talking the one in the park it's in a city park yeah yeah that right this is this one's to the South I believe yeah so there's the park and then there's the the pond it's it's it's right next door
so this is on page 25 mayor the packet um Pond p84 is south of um it's off it's between Cove Circle and Jenning Jennings Cove Road because we had documented the one that's in the park that was next to
the 2022 Street project this is the one in someone's backyard yeah yeah oh so yeah okay the one in the park is ours because it's in the city park and we have you're correct there's been a couple of occasions where they've gone out there and and clean that one out right um yeah in between the two
neighborhood the two culdesac isn't it where you're talking about yeah okay again that I don't know but you could probably do a special assessment for for projects like that I mean but if it's in someone's backyard well it's probably an outlet there would
be an yeah no there'd be an easement over the top of it um so the there's two different processes what mayor's talking about that we started in the early 2000s is the storm water taxing district with any new subdivision that's our common practice this one's before that time you
can always do a 429 process to assess for these and you'd have to uh you know basically go around and do a Hydro water runoff map if you will to determine how many houses or how much of
the water in this area goes to that pond so then you can go to all however many people that is 10 15 people whatever it ends up being and they would all then be part of that 420m process to do whatever you need to do to to clean up that pond so have to prove and demonstrate that
you know 10 people their storm water goes to that pond and the reason all of this is happening is because as we get built out more and more and more these past funds become more important they're all important they're all important it's
always been there the requirements have always been there it just hasn't been my comment to Jasper my comment to Jasper was today I've learned a lot on the city count basically when you go to buy a house I don't know of any you says
you're going to be responsible for the roads and we're going to assess you for them and you're going to be responsible for the ponds and we're going to assess you for that you don't take any courses you don't know these expenses are coming so there's surprise expenses and I'm
trying to get away from Surprise expenses yeah in this so in the as David pointed out the newer developments it shouldn't be a surprise because it still is I mean it's part of when you go throughing the stack of papers is like that who who goes through
that and points all that out you know it's in there if you read through all that stuff oh yeah oh yeah the all in there and what everyone's responsible for and good fun stuff but but in this case because it was in the
80s I highly doubt that anything was documented in terms of who's responsible I mean I mean it might surprise you more than you think have been some sort of storm water maintenance agreement that went through as part of the subdivision agreement there's an HOA
um how do we find that well we' have to you start here and then but that's the problem process is you you're going to have to go back um for accuracy and and do title searches you know engage with a title company or uh Kennedy and Graven
can do that too but you know it's cost but here's here's the thing my experience has been it all depends on who the planner was at the time and and seriously I mean you know did they think about this at the time did they did they
add it in yeah so I mean these are all good questions so you know options you certainly the storm tax district for everything that was platted after 2000 some earlier subdivisions might have something in place um you know there's
the 429 process um that you can go through similar to what we do for Street Improvement projects there is I I looked up the statute last week when I was drafting this report and there is under the guidelines of what you can assess for projects it's for storm water
maintenance I'm not saying it verbatim um which you know storm I would work with if that's something the city wants city council wants to explore I would work with the city attorney's office to make sure that they would be comfortable with that mechanism and how that process would work but a 429 assessment process
is an option and then certainly um the the storm water management fund um is a is a city funding source that could be used and um you know if you want to take a look at doing pulling from that fund versus
doing assessments then we would have to work with with Brian and his crew to start getting budgets put together for that the problem you're going to run into of these older ponds with the um larger lots too if you you know back
then they had larger Lots um you have fewer people to assess and if it's going to be let's just say a $600,000 project and there's 10 homes or 15 homes you can't assess that whole amount it's just not it's just not
financially viable so I think we have to figure out um how much it's going to cost and who and how it's going to be paid for but I I would say to start with probably letters to the homeowners um in
this area you know would be at least a start so they're not totally shocked just saying we're starting to explore this your pond I don't know some kind of a explanation and education letter and um the city is looking at different
financing options I I I don't know what to say in the letter exactly but um I agree with an to just pop something up and say okay now you guys are going to owe 20 grand I mean you know what I'm saying it's just I I I'm not real
interested in doing that but I think we have to let them know that this is coming and um they're going to have to have some and like that so Jenny's C has an HOA maybe believe
they come out when we did the park and talk about the curb and all that stuff they had someone here for one of our meetings they do I don't recall if it goes that because that that southern area was developed after jenning's Cove I don't remember I think I want to say it's like seven or eight years later so
I don't know if they're part of the Jennings Co HOA that we've worked with in the past although we must have a contact right for the Jennings Co HOA and we could ask if that's part of it and and that's that's like there's there we can we can start getting answers to
our questions the challenges um it's the the the amount of time that it takes to do that particularly if you have to do title searches as David mentioned well where staff where what are you guys recommending what the first
step should be then well certainly this is this is why we brought it together the council's attention um we can certainly stay the course and just monitor if you look at how these how these scores are adjusting there you know every two years we're seeing a Delta of you know a couple points
depending on how big the pond is so it's not like we're seeing a huge flood of um no pun intended of of ponds coming coming um at that 65 score um no but what I'm saying is what what what would your
first what are you thinking of of doing we can't just keep sitting here because we've done that for a couple years now okay well is one of the things that I think think might be helpful for the council and for staff to be very honest with you is to go and if we have that storms the storm tax District being set
up in 2000 would be to go and take a look at okay what ponds out of that whole list that we've generated how many of those ponds were built 2000 or later right and so start pairing down and saying all right now we're now we're dealing with a much more manageable data set in my opinion um because those are
the ones that are going to be the the surprise right the 2000 and later if you didn't read your your closing documents I'm sorry but that's that's another you're saying prior to 2000 yeah yeah yeah right so maybe that's something that um we can bring back to the council
right um so I think if we start looking at that I other I think the other thing to take a look at is this the program is based on how the scores are developed as they look at the area draining to the pond and what the land use is around it and based on that
you use the um the industry standard of how many pounds or how much sediment going in there so is that really what happened did they get that much sentiment in there is there more is there less so because the next step of that is getting that bath metric survey
and find out is this actually what you know is it actually filling in like we thought it was and I think we need that because I would hate to send people letters saying oh you might be assessed and then finding out oh wait thought you know what I'm saying you
know so I think we need to like you said earlier than 2000 get a list of those and then do the bath metric assessments then we know more yeah I mean on this list
there's not that many that are older than 2000 no yeah they tend to be bigger areas too so probably support it and like the trillion Bay one they have so yeah they do send the HOA an email on these ones
be like hey this is your pwn score at this time we're going to be doing this survey here's what could happen a few years we did it two years ago so what kind of feedback did we get not much not much you know because it's one of those things where if if you're not required
to will you and and and it's and or maybe it was a lack of understanding or maybe it didn't go get in the right person's hands I I don't know I think that there's you know certainly there's some some more steps that we can take um particularly if if we have good contact
information for some of these HOAs like did you have a dollar amount in there as to what it was going to cost they have the acation because that'll get people's attention to dollar amount we didn't do you're just telling warning them that this this could happen they have no idea I mean I wouldn't know you were G to charge a lot of money
well the aetric surveys so I updated that number it's in the in the it was um8 800 to 15 and that's just based on Pond size or is that like the base fee and then there's more stuff tacked on PING I would I would say a bimetric
survey that's why we have that range in there is based on the size of the pond um i' so that would be a pretty solid number um regardless of size between 800 and yeah because you don't have to do it whole Pond right yeah so the the cost
per square yard to remove now that's the wild card right because not it's not only how much how much sediment are you moving that that would be an easy number to calculate based on that survey but what's the level of contamination how are they going to have to dispose of it
but even going back before that to David's point when you start looking at some of these can they get in there what kind of equipment can they get the standard equipment in there or are they looking at getting smaller equipment are they looking at significant tree
removal removal of land landcaping and patios and who knows what's in there that's the that's the eyebrow raise that I'm seeing you know um well there's there's you can see it right there yeah that's the pond I know I know these are
trees all houses you know that's not to the road you know this is going to be major well you would access it from that that other side from from the the other Road and I'm not familiar with the grades through there you're going to cut
more down you know so you know and I think the other thing too is we want to be a little bit strategic on this if we're looking at the PCA coming through with a permit renewal and and having the city count city council and it's a year away it's important work to do um but if if we're
seeing major well I shouldn't say major but challenges with some of the that um do we want to start thinking all right well let's do a plan so that we can you know we'll demonstrate to the
PCA that we are making an effort but I do we really want to cut our teeth on a really hard one or should we should we find one that we know is is in an open area I like that idea I like that idea right exactly like I I think it's
like that's that could be really be a hornet's nest and we don't want to upset residents like that the the thing is is to Peter's Point depending on where depending on so Jennings Bay is one of the most degradated Bays on Lake vatanka we know
that it's I think a d maybe even an f and so it's kind of depends on where your storm water ponds are and where they we where where they Outlet to that's also going to kind of determine somewhat where you should be looking
because the impact that they have would be significant especially if it's a um degradated Bay already you know so I don't know I mean there's all these plus the other thing is when you fix these ponds um could
there be um grants available because if they're working on um tmdl or something on on Jennings Bay and you know that might be something to talk to mcwd about because um if they have to and I know that we're on the hook for phos
reduction if there's a tmdl and it says you know 36 pounds have to be removed blah blah blah you're on the hook for 15 of those pounds whatever then we have to do something but there may be grants available I don't know so that might be
something we should ask at least yeah to my knowledge for something that you're require to do with with the water district there aren't we've we've done the Ravine Grant with them that's something above and beyond the Minneapolis we restored that we got a little bit of
money from them but um and Bowser been brought up before um and when it's a regulatory Authority that you already have as a city they don't look too Keen to give you money for something that you're supposed to be doing yeah what why [Laughter]
not I don't know I'm just um throwing out some thoughts okay so of the ones that are on page are less than 65 which ones are the easiest to tackle probably some of the ones in hun
Crest Palmer point would be easy to to access there's this right on right around right next to the road I I wonder if there's I I should forun is not here this evening but some of these HOAs there's there could be
some um some relationship between staff and members of the HOA and maybe it's worth reaching out to some of those and just instead of just sending off a letter to somebody who we don't know who's responsible as taking that more personal approach and and saying hey
we've got you know we've got this data set that's kind of telling us this Pond might be do for some maintenance has anything been done um and just kind of start those conversations with um versus just sending out a letter that may or may not get into the yeah I was thinking
if it's if we're not sure if it's an HOA or but but yeah okay and I know hress Crest HOA is aware of their PS and that they have to um address those so um maybe the
um huness Crest and even Palmer point the the um Hunter the first one p13 and p69 might be two that we could right and and I think I think too like I had a strong connection with some
of them from the hunters crust HOA and when I asked because I knew they were doing some work for it they had programmed into their budget and when I asked for the documentation like just can you tell me how many loads they called out I I didn't get anything back so I'll try that again yeah um so just
things like that this this might not fall high on their priority list um so I'll make note of that too there's some some additional information that I can bring back to the council as far as pairing down what's been built before
2000 and then trying to find that personal connection with the HOA I don't think there's a lot that was built prior to 2000 Jennings Co maybe
um trying to think about other ones that were built I mean they're they're around the lake you know the the developments over there but well we have some good some good things to work on I think
um you know I I like that we've started we've started talking about this for the last what four years I think we've been talking about this um and getting some Cadence so that you know understanding that we're likely going to see something in that next permitting at least we have
some groundwork that we can build off of MH with the permitting cycle and I know like we set the score is 65 is that good or are they going to come back and say like it's got to be 80 like well that that's a good question because the
this the program that we use isn't used metrowide it's I I don't know what other programs are available to do something like that so it'll be interesting to see how they phrase that if they're going to go by yearbuilt anything that's 20 years old or 30 years old I I I don't know how
I don't know what they're looking at for draft language but yeah we set it at 65 thinking that that would be probably a you know place to start at um well most the ones that we're talking about are even
far lower than 65 so yeah all right so do you kind of know what I'm making notes so that um so in in no order of of importance um
I had to find a list of bmps that were built before 2000 so that we can see which ones don't have that um storm tax district and then to look for personal connections to HOAs so that on that list if we can go and find that you know
instead of sending that letter out into who knows where um prioritizing basins based on the condition of the downstream body with Jenning Bay being one of the examples um and then there was and then I think maybe once we start
I bring that information back to council um there was a discussion about getting some bimetric surveys done and looking for Grants if there's any grant money available for any of this preliminary work okay um when would Council like to see
this come back discussion when would I don't know how long this going take you to find that true that's a good point that's what I was going to say well when you think you can come back well I'd like to give it a i I'd like to give it a good
um a good try to get some of this you know the connections with the HOAs which I'm maybe fall that's a that's a nice like three month window September SE September September okay how dire is this I know
it got referenced earlier that they're starting when David talked about like bigger communities like Chan and stuff I mean are we in the next threshold like we should be doing something by 2027 or 2030 or or what do you have any idea or not really if it's just
no the numers for the wood c identif yeah well that's so that's like you could you could you could play it depends on how the language is set up right are they just looking for the city
making an effort or are they looking for the city to go and Implement to go and well let let me just make let me make a comment here just so you know um it costs a whole lot more to clean up a
body of water than it does to prevent it from getting polluted in the first place so and that's what these storm water ponds are supposed to do preventative okay so I don't really think it's in our best in long-term best
interest to postpone this because then we're going to be on the hook because they're going to be doing they they've probably already done tmdls for all of the bays and and and the whole um mcwd Watershed and what happens is then we're on the hook to to clean the help with
the cleanup of these bays and reduce the phosphorus loading so it's in our best interest to do this before it gets so bad so right but some of these are already bad they are I right and so
we're really going to be on the hook one way or the other to clean up the to help reduce the phosphorus loading anyway so this isn't something that you can just say well let's I mean postponing we we have to I mean we can't do this all at
once because of the cost but we need to be addressing it sooner than later okay thank you all right one I'm sorry one more thing would it make sense to do the aetric survey on like the one
two three four five six the eight of them that are under 60 just now so we have it when we reach out to the HOA if we find them so they have the information um I I think what I'd like to do is see if I can find that personal
connection and say hey so you've got these Pawn on and have the conversation because it's so difficult to go just with a letter and have a phone conversation or an inperson meeting um explain what we're doing ask because if they've done some kind of maintenance on
those oh that's great okay well how much do you think you removed and then we can update it and their score might go up so I think that would be an important thing to do first um and then like I said we if we look at at kind of calling that list based on what's under a taxing
district and and if I get anywhere with these personal connections um we'd have a smaller list that we'd be looking at to get those bath metric surveys done as a Next Step okay all right all right so um real quick uh so Kathleen
myself Gary Jasper Aaron vmer and then um and also uh from Kennedy and Graven um an attorney uh strowman was there and we it was a virtual meeting and we talked about um a different process that
cities can do for the uh water treatment plant and I think at the end kind of to make a long story short I think all of us kind of agreed that that's not the process we want to go through it's it's
kind of um it's what you do the processes um you hire a um contractor a general contractor early on so like right now and then they're involved in the process and then they go out and
they get bids so once the HVAC system has been designed they take that they take it to subcontractors and they get bids and then once the electrical has been done they take and then they come back to council and Council approves
every phase of the project so maybe the grading is the first thing then they do the the the foundation and then they do this and they do that um we we talked about this for an hour and um we really
came to the conclusion that it really isn't going to save us any time especially right now because first of all we'd have to go out for rfps that means requests for proposals and and then they'd have to submit their proposals very similar to like what we
did with a s and um then you go through the proposals and then they have to be qualified and so on and so forth and then you have to interview them so by the time we did all that we'd be well into September anyway I mean I'm at
least based on our experience with hiring a2s so and then we said well we didn't quite see the value in this either because they were trying to sell us some it's a good value because they can be involved early on in the design
process and we're like let's see that's not going to happen because we're already going down that path right now so they wouldn't be involved so long story short if if anybody should ask we did look at it we we evaluated it and it
really was a unanimous consensus that it doesn't do us in this project a lot of good having said that the other reason I think I would be very apprehensive about it is because it's such a big project if we're going to do something like this and it's a let's say first time doing
this I would highly recommend we do it on a much smaller project so maybe we could consider doing it let's say down the road we have to add another storage facility water tower in ground up above whatever we a couple million dollars
maybe that's where we want to think about it and think about it earlier on because I think we're too far down the road right now just seemed like it would cost more Andy get out longer to go this but the other thing um that kind of
came to light is I think the council maybe with engineering we need to establish a a budget we need to tell them this is where we want to be and and you need to try and work within that
those those parameters otherwise we might get a budget that we can't handle so there might be some certain things that they can do cost savings wise and say well okay if this is your budget we're going to have to do this or if this is your budget we're going to have
to do this but I think it would be in in the city's best interest to really make it clear what we think or what we expect this this project to come in at now what that number is I don't
know but well I think yeah the 19 number shot 2 million and I that's where I think you know I think multiple of us push back and that seems whatever you know we found out in that meeting so what happens is when they start designing this they start out with a 30%
contingency and so that's why it's 19 million right now and but then you get into the design process and by the time it's 50 or 60% designed now you're probably down to 20% contingency and then by the time it's a final design now
down to maybe a 5 or 10% contingency so that's why I think the 19 million is such a St sticker shock and Brian's going we can do it for less than this so it's probably going to come in between 14 and 15 but I think we need to make it
clear we as a small community um or a small amount of um water users we need to be very very conscientious about about this budget and so I I think we need to con that this evening uh to them
you know 14 million if possible let's not put any bells and whistles on this thing this is strictly utilitarian whatever we need to do I don't care if it's ugly we'll cover it with trees I a little bit no we'll cover it
with trees um but I mean we can't we can't go overboard because just because we don't have the money we can size it and then I know can with the weird I mean I know there's things you can do that we maybe just got to talk to them about as far as what's the right size I
know obviously Gary wants it as big as possible but to the you know what's the budget going to fit you know and all those things got to be considered I guess that's yeah so um and then so um Erin won't be here tonight but um I guess I don't know his
name gr May so he'll be here so we'll be able to asking a lot of questions so all right with that uh we can be adjourned if there's a motion Mo thank you Kathleen thank you Peter all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed
motion passes Part: 2
and it is 7 o'clock are we ready okay 7 o'clock so I'm going to call the meeting to order this is the regular city council meeting for Minista June 17 and I'd like for you to First join me in Pledge of Allegiance Pledge of alance to the flag
of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible andice so welcome everybody here this evening as well as watching on YouTube later on um first I'll start with
introductions I'm Lisa wayen I'm the mayor and to my left our council members Kathleen rkin an McGregor and Peter vicory Claudia Lacy is um participating in our annual golf uh police golf tournament fundraiser golf tournament so
and then um on the end we have our city engineer with WSB Alison fski and then we also have Ann meerhoff who is taking notes who is our city clerk and then to my right we have um Brian Grim our finance director David Abel our community development director Sarah
Sans Sala is our City attorney with K uh Kennedy and Graven and then we have Patrick comings okay you're not here that often so I got your first name right S I should have just said Sergeant Patrick or something like that anyway
welcome Patrick thank you for being here um with that um any additions or changes to the agenda I don't think so is there a motion to approve the agenda as presented so moov thank you Miss rkin is there a second second um Miss McGregor
got that so all those in favor signify with i i i all those opposed motion passes by vote next we move on to special presentations we have uh two lovely ladies here with us this evening they're with the Harrison Bay um
Improvement Association I believe Harris Bay Association okay thank you um so I am Sher Wallace I live in M I'm Julie weisenhorn I also live in M um so we are
part of the h2q committee as part of the Harrison's Bay Association our water quality committee and um like HS like Jennings uh West Arm and
Harrison are all impaired things for water quality to TI and so we came together as an association because of that and we developed this our slogan is so good up
what can we do as an organization to not only educate also um provide services to Residents around soing up the storm water rof which is our number one Urban
today so next slide so last year um I was in front of you guys and you all approved a partnership uh for rindal distribution so um and the number is a little off
Association of Minnesota provided the rain barrels they are made of 100% recycled U milk JS uh as an association we ordered 180 rain barrels we had to pre-order them
all um and we sold 74 rain barrels for the city of Minista 54 of those got a discount of $30 20 provided by the city and another 10 provided by
WSB um the city of M sold 74 also again these numbers just got corrected um but they had 60 that applied for the discount and then we had some additional other communities that that sold the rest of them so
180 rains were distributed and go to the next no that's the next one okay all right um so as part of that all of the citizens um got a QR code to our website and so we developed a website with a
bunch of different um fact sheets information on how to install it at the distribution event um on May 4th we actually had a demonstration rain barrel so they could
come in and they could see how to cut and set it up and all of that kind of thing so we have resources on our website and then I'll have you go to the next SL so just to talk about rain barrels um 80 80% rain
barel owners use the rain barels for lawn and garden watering one person one R if they use it in normal ways during the peak of the summer which right now we've had so much rain right there's no way you can all the rain in your rain
barrel because there's so much rain but 1300 gallons a year of of water savings so you know add of 74 Barrel there and you're talking about over
96,000 gallons of water per year can be saved with just this year is rain barel so thank you for agreeing to partner with us on that um and you know our question is here um are you interested
in partnering further um doing this again um I don't know if jper gave you any feedback I know he he talked to me a little bit about it but I yeah I think it was very um educational number one
and it really also it um provides our educa part of us it we need to do an educational piece for storm water and for a water and that kind of fits that bill really well um so I think we definitely will um want to participate again it was a great
program so so I wanted to turn it over jul she is Educator Thea ex so you want to talk about yeah so uh I am an a University of Minnesota
extension Horticulture educator so I spend my days speaking with general public uh talking about great plant selection sustainable land sustainable landscape design also talking about things like managing storm water runoffs
so how do you do that in a landscape it's sometimes difficult to explain to somebody in depth about how to redesign your landscape in you know five minutes or less but uh things like uh having rain barrels doing some simple uh
changes to their landscape all those sort of things are things that I particip in and offer to the uh Harrison Bay Association and our fellow uh folks around the area so uh helping with the public education Outreach and then also
working with people on those storm water pollution uh presentations and information so next slide we have a great website a lot of it is University of Minnesota research-based information this comes from our water quality folks comes from our design people uh I'm one
of those people uh we talk about things like choosing the right plants a lot of native plants and Native cultivars that can tolerate those wet feet so to speak and also tolerate the drought because the past three Summers have been really really dry and you may be wondering like
why are we worried about rain barrels at this point when we were way into the drought uh the past few years but the important thing is to talk about in bigger picture about how do we manage water but also how do we plan for these fluctuations that we and water from
drought to flooding which we're now under a flood watch today we also talk about lawn care too so Lawns are a big part of Landscapes not everybody wants a lawn but a lot of people do there's a lot of great benefits to Lawns but how do you manage those lawns in a good way
that prevents water from flowing off those Lawns into the landscape and how much fertilizer do you actually need on wwns what kinds of turf species should you use that require less fertilizer and can tolerate less uh less water as well
so benefiting Us in that respect too uh also thinking about things like Lake Front buffers really important around the Lakes area that we all enjoy here what kinds of plants should you use how big should they be we have information on that rain Gardens we install a rain
Garden at appal Lane in Mound you're welcome to come and take a look at it I'm sure it's gotten tons of use in the past uh week or so and then again talking about rain barrels and the benefits of that so next slide we want people to keep water on their property
we want them to either collected rain barrels have a a way that that U you know reduce the compaction of their soil so that water can perol down into their aquifers below the ground and so we want to talk about that too we don't want people having a lot of water running off
into our gutters and going then in carrying a nutrients from plant materials into our lakes and streams next last so I thinks resources that we're providing
our association res with on an Ong basis and so the question would be how can we help you right and are there some things that we can do to help you with that uh on January 1 I was appointed to the mini
PR citizens Advisory Board to represent the West Metro area and so part of that is really kind of looking at how can gather information from the cities Trista M
long L to understand what your needs are what your priorities are and you've taken on I know you probably been involved in updates on Six Mile Creek and the improvements done for Six Mile Creek but 202 going to be
starting with and stting to the I do we've had some with you in the past and so I think what what we wanted what
I want to do is being part of that Citi advisory coun to make sure that I understand what your needs are understand how we can Julie as a resource as being part of the U
of um is phenomenal and I I think that you know we' like to have a little a few more conversations about that I'd love to be involved in any way we' all love to be involved in any kind of educational events you have around storm
water I also a water Ste with the Minnesota water store so we want to make sure that people understand is negatively imp our today well thank you um tonight we can't
give you that answer I think we'd have to yes thank you yeah yeah yeah yes he's um I've already talked to him so he he's aware so go ahead and contact him the council's on board so this is great yeah if we can
think of some opportunities to for education or other um information um we'll definitely um be in touch or yeah talk to you again thank you very much all right thank you okay they at
trist were you at trist day I don't think so right Sher were you at okay so that might be an opportunity next year to be at trist day have a um was May 19th it's us usually the third Saturday or second Saturday second
sat third Saturday in May so yeah okay well um check out our website um at the beginning of the year and it's usually like the third Saturday in May and you could have a table with information and talk to people which would be great okay
great thank you good idea all right um I don't think anybody signed up under persons to be heard and so we'll move on to consent agenda items um are there any that you wish to pull otherwise they um approve our work session meeting minutes
from June 3rd 2024 approve our city council meeting minutes from June 3rd 2024 a resolution to approve claims and approve the temporary liquor license for Northwest ton Alliance and then e is Woodland Cove water main improvements
advertisement for bids any questions hearing none is there a m to approve consent agenda items a through e so moov thank you Miss rkin is there a second second thank you Mr vicory all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed
motion passes we move on to our public hearings which we have none this evening so we'll move on to business items um the the first item is a conditional use permit for the 3330 Highland Road it was not on our consent agenda the reason it wasn't is because we had a split vote on
that so I'll let um David kind a recap real quick and then we'll take the vote sure yeah thank you mayor and members of the council as the mayor just mentioned this was at your uh first meeting in June for review and consideration the council heard public Testament and count
uh comments on the proposed conditional use fir permit for Farm Winery at Highland Road um there was a split vote it was a 3-2 vote to direct staff to bring back a resolution that would approve um that conditional use permit for a fire Farm Winery um the resolution
is attached in your packet with conditions as as they were discussed at that meeting uh specific to alcohol on the site uh and those types of changes have been made to the resolution that's part of your packet for your consideration this evening thank you
David any questions or comments okay hearing none then is there a motion to approve resolution number 53-24 for a conditional use permit at 3330 Highland Road to move thank you Miss McGregor is there a
second thank you Mr vicory all those in favor signify with i i i all those opposed motion passes 31 Miss rkin nay so next we'll move on to the water treatment plant task order and we have a
grant what is your last name again I'm sorry Meer y r oh Meer all right so we have Grant Meyer here this evening um standing in for um Aaron vulmer who is um away with his family on vacation I guess hope he's like you said hope he's
having a good time so with that um again welcome thank you for coming and I'm going to hand it over to you excellent thank you mayor members of the council am standing in for Aaron Balmer tonight I've spent I guess had the better part of 10 years working together
with Aon closing at treatment infrastructure and appreciate all the work we've had the opportunity to do with Minista so far as we're preparing for future of the water utility here and really appreciate the work so far looking forward to taking the next step
together and in part guess asking for authorization to proceed with design but also want to make sure everybody's comfortable with where we're at um what it looks like going forward and answer the questions the council has before we take these next steps forward thank you
yeah I'm sure we have questions I'm sure I I will spare you a long presentation I assume deta don't need to go back over all that so I'm I'm going to start um I'm just going to go down the line um Peter we'll
start with you if you have questions or comments and then we're going to go to Ann and and and then we'll come back again of course if if something triggers and you want to ask more questions I think just a very general overview would be helpful because married reading
enough here so if you could just kind of give us a highl level uh summary high level of the feast itself or kind of the project the project so sure the project will be a new water treatment facility for the
city of minesa in the southern area 2100 gallons a minute so about 3 million gallons of a day additional treatment capacity it will include two of the new wells which I believe are currently under construction as the city also looks to decommission or take a couple of of
service understand Wells that traditionally result in maybe some customer complaints as a result and standing for high levels of iron mag in those Wells so transition to some new wells increase the treatment capacity aligning more with the city's
goals or comprehensive planning for 2040 as we look up to the Future and provide adequate expansion for the growing Community as well as treating the water quality to within primary and secondary treat addressing so primarily iron and
mages concerns so 2100 gon a day treatment capacity for a nutriment facility in the southern are the city that will treat the two new wells and complement the city's existing water treatment infrastructure in that
area thank you okay and questions no sounds like a good project I think it would be a fantastic project for the city how do we move up the goal of completing the design by March
yeah we can I can certainly work with the project team on how quickly we can do that um moving things forward I I would be a strong to the extent that we can accomplish it responsibly and get through good decision making with the city and our team certainly that earlier
we can bid in the year would be better for a lot of reasons not the least is which I think everybody kind of likes to be on the fr contractors filling up their schedule ccle being being aggressive as we can is certainly understandable I don't have a solid answer for you right now I think that's
I'll certainly work with the team on if there's opportunities to move out along quicker so I think when we first started out we were under the impression that it would be about a six-month design process so I was somewhat and I think that's what m Miss rekin is U re
referencing is when we saw a 9mon design process um end of March we know from a lot of our um um construction that we've done here that's not a great bidding climate and we are very very very concerned about the
bottom line on this project um the bottom number and the further out we go especially you get into end of March if that's the end design you're not even bidding it until April sometime so that's not a good bidding climate as you
just stated we know that so we really need to move this up um really need to move this up so um and then the other thing is um I I did ask Jasper about this we discussed this a little bit about the the dollar amount and it's not
to exceed I understand except that there's um I think Miss refkin pointed out earlier that um in a conversation that it did not include um additional footings Foundation if depending on the soils so so can you maybe explain a
little bit about that I think she had some questions on that yeah my understanding from the site as it exist today is we really need to get the geotechnical work done have a real understanding of what that what the foundation is and even when we look at
the estimated opinion of construction cost at this point and relative to some of the contingency understanding what that Foundation system look like could be a big driver of construction costs for us there um but would also Drive engineering costs or
not would it or not would it add more engineering cost let me ask you that way I'm within what we have we could do we could do a lot I depending if that geotechnic will came back that was was something very crazy we may have another
discussion we can do a lot with what's in there now okay so if back would be 100% candid if if the Geotech was if there was something incredibly unusual it may bring us back here to have another discussion about that I
don't think that we're going to find anything so un I don't think we're going to find so unusual it's a big engineering difference it might be more structural conru construction cost if we get into different types of deep Foundation Systems could could drive different discussions as far as
construction costs and the GE technical stuff that is again an extra cost to us correct that yeah that's separate is it brown who do you who do we usually use brown brown okay that if I may I'm sorry I just so my
apologies um so a2s did reach out to WSB to bring forward um requesting to bring forward a proposal for geotechnical and surveyance services for that site um and there was just a a miscommunication on the timing of a2s prop proposal versus
ours for the geotechnical so we anticipate um I'll be bringing that forward um uh through either Gary or Jasper to make sure a2s is is comfortable with what we're proposing and then bring that to council for consideration at the next meeting okay
does that yeah how long does that take the geotechnical survey um the geotechnical I I'd have to take a look back but we would have it we we anticipated having it back within six weeks of of authorization
because that's kind of a problem because we can't start designing it if you don't have that so that I mean that's delaying it at least see because we don't have another meeting for another four weeks and then if it takes six weeks to do that now we're talking two and a half
months from now before can are you starting to design it prior to that we will absolutely start other aspects of design as well okay we wouldn't want to get too far ahead of ourselves with these structural things rework or unwind things but the structural part is just
one aspect to design and we would absolutely be greenlining especially with the sense of urgency around the bid dates we absolutely be Greening as much as we possibly could respons let me ask you something um Allison um is there any chance of
bumping that proposal up and maybe a special meeting maybe with two or three of us or something I could certainly talk to to staff about that um and see if that's something I just I I'm getting I I I need to get it um finalized to
send to Gary or if assuming it be this week it would be Jasper since Gary's out um to make sure that um that would be something that they can coordinate with a2s because we want to make sure that the proposal is hitting all the marks with a2s no I I get that maybe what you could do is Park how much do you think
it would cost I believe it was over a 100,000 for the Geotech for the Geotech well let me just no that doesn't sound right I have no idea because I know that there's certain amounts that you can
that you can um authorize that sounds too much um I know it's a large project I know it's a large project but yeah I think that's a bit high so let's do this Alison if you can connect with Jasper
this week and like I said if there's two or three of council members we could get together briefly to authorize that prior to the 15th because again we don't want to wait that long to so even if you know
the eth or 9th of July we to work or sooner the paperwork we can meet the end of the month okay and then um yeah cuz I would be around by the end of the month I mean if we could meet
that last week certainly okay I'll work with staff okay all right so then you can work faster absolutely and that did give me just a moment to confirm the comment in the task agreement as well it it it was clear about the Deep P deep
foundation so we got into a situation where we're doing a deep pile structure I think that's a different conversation we'd want to have comprehensively not only the engineer part that but also that impact on construction cost as well as that would be right that's a significant
understanding that's why we are very interested in getting that done sooner than later and um and also knowing some of those cost po potential costs so all right and then um so timing was and those those uh deep Foundation things and then oh all right I think we need to
have a little conversation on budget so I don't know if you know this or not but we have about 20 200 water accounts 97% of them are residential and we're only growing by about 100 and 120 new homes a
year so it's not like a a huge new new homes that are going to be paying for this and so we need to be very very careful on every dollar and Penny that we spend on this so we want to make sure that you understand that we can't go
Cadillac we have to go VW fck so um I don't know what where that puts us but I think we probably want to be somewhere in the 15 145 million range
or less um if there's special things um eliminate all the bells and whistles for now and we'll see where and then we'll talk about those maybe as we move along but um we really need to keep it very utilitarian and then another question um
steel or concrete tanks what's your opinion and what's the cost difference and and what are the some of the advantages and disadvantages right now I think it's see is leaning heavily toward concrete okay filters and any number of drivers but given what you just
suggested I think that as I understand at the estimate it's about $4 million less expensive to go away conrete concrete okay as opposed to the steel vessel I think we have Concrete in our current ones is that correct no no we
have steel steel okay okay yeah which would have been one of the benefits is perhaps familiarity yeah um but but they operate similar I mean it's it's I think it's life expectancy or whatever isn't it and maintenance maybe yes
yeah for all practical purposes concrete lasts quite a long time and from an operational standpoint it isn't it isn't wildly different the operation's very similar um those are the questions I had um
timeline and then okay one more question um 2100 gallons per minute so do we even have the storage capacity to to handle another 3 million gallons a day it's a it's a it's a balance of
water production and storage and use it is where so long as it ultimately fits within the city's budget expectations I think that's 2100 gallons a minute is where you want to be and I think probably the last thing that you
would want to compromise is you look the construction the facility is a size I think it'll put you in a better I think it'll put you in a much better place as you look toward the future and look to grow there's other things that we may be able to do to matter some of the costs associated in here and there as you look
up toward the future it's going to be much more costly to add those gallity in the future than if we can get that okay even if it needs to be a little utilitarian right now even if we can get it in in that framework about the last place I would recommend cutting
as a capacity um I was only asking because I think at one time it said 2700 somewhere I read and so now it's 21 so that's good that's good um I just wanted to make sure that we don't have so much it's it's a storage capacity if we if we're
doing if we're filtering or have the capacity to filter 2100 additional gallons per minute but we don't have the capacity to store it then we're kind of up against a wall again and now we have to build more storage so well it also allows us if something happens with the
current treatment to take that offline and still have the treatment capacity or catastrophic failure if you lost the existing treatment facility going back and forth so from a flexibility operation standpoint it doesn't afford you a lot of
resilienc all right that's it can I maybe ask one question sure maybe just to give context so I know me and Jas even talked about this briefly but as I know the N9 month timeline on the design so how many hours just out of curiosity go into like
preliminary design and final and I'm obviously a math guy or numbers guy so I I see just the dollar mons the 370 and the 667 ,000 so and maybe that'll even help the council I mean is that 3,000 hours for preliminary design and 6,000 for final design or I don't is there
what's a average or what's a standard amount of time and Engineering time that needs to go into designing a water treatment plant I guess for those phases sure I'm not exactly sure what if we assume this was standard I'm not exactly sure standard some of the things would
be higher and lower for for this one specifically 82s has let's let's say we have about 75% of the project so this is not this is not including the architectural and mechanical work and the numbers I'm about to give you but there's just under
4,800 hours just under 4,800 hours total in the project roughly a third of that maybe a little over a third 35 38% roughly is in The Upfront optimization jar testing in the preliminary design
takes us to right of the bud roughly then with the other roughly 3,000 hours being the line 2800 of that is final design and then about 200 hours for the bidding phase Services get
through that part of the process okay Jasper just texted he thought the Geo should be around less than 10 yeah I was thinking like 10 10 to 15 is what I was thinking but so then we would social
Med he could authorize it I think he's up to 10ish right so no T is Poli I I think it is so then okay so that's thanks um so here's a question um Council would you
like to authorize tonight Jasper to um award a contract um up to 15,000 for the geotechnical um work that WSB is going to have to do and they're going to coordinate and all that yes yes
okay um do you Sarah do we need a motion to that effect thank you so is there a motion to authorize our city administrator Jasper kral to go ahead and execute a contract um up to $155,000 for the geothermal or geot technical I'm
sorry um eval evaluation is survey so moved thank you is there a second second thank you Mr so Kathleen made that and Peter seconded that any further discussion or questions and Sarah is that motion adequate okay
thank you um all those in favor signify with i i i all those opposed motion passes 5 hopefully that will help you move things along faster all right thank youle and I I do know and one of the besides the the
dollar amount we we we are under pressure if you will um to get more water and um I know Gary sweats it out a lot of times so um we don't want to give him a heart attack so we want to move this along as fast as possible think be
a fantastic project it it will be together yeah continuing the path yeah and the um the compensation um again I I spoke with Jasper and this and we compared it to um SE that did our other two water treatment plants and percentage wise it's
actually a little bit lower so we're we're right in percentage wise um of the total uh project costs we're we're right there so I think it's right around 89% if I'm not mistaken somewhere around there so so we're I think we're pretty
good there um and I know you guys will do an excellent job and work closely with Gary and and staff on on on all of the um details so anything else otherwise um I do um need a motion to
approve the scope and authorize plans and specifications for the water treatment plant which is Task order number 11 for a2s some thank you Miss rkin is there a second second thank you Miss McGregor any further questions hearing none all
those in favor signify with i i motion passes 5 we didn't Grill you too hard did we thank you so much I look forward to working together for there you go all the work
decisions and we'll tell them you told us to do that thank you very much thank you for coming yeah all right uh then we'll move on to administrative items are there any staff reports I do need a liaison for
our the 24th meeting in June here for planning okay I cannot be there I can be there you can be there okay um Claudia will be is the council okay with that okay we're approving Claudia for the Planning Commission any other staff
reports okay um so a couple things real quick um we had to P um we had to cancel the bus tour because of inclement weather and it wasn't as bad as they said it was going to be but they were talking possible hail and and you know
just all kinds of stuff and so um between all of us staff and myself we decided for every everybody's safety and convenience who wants to get out and you know in pouring rain we decided to cancel it we haven't rescheduled a date yet we're talking about a rescheduling a
date um probably in August or somewhere in that range so we'll keep you posted on that uh Kathleen and I I think will be attending the fire district meeting tomorrow morning at 7 A.M yeah okay as you all know this is
not my favorite time of and um so we will be um reporting back on that with you and then also Claudia you weren't here but um in the work session we gave a report on the U meeting that we had with uh regarding semar we'll talk to you about that later
and um let's see what else was there I think that was the main the main thing so I also just so you know uh the uh League of Minnesota City's annual conference is the end of the month and I am signed up to go if anybody else wants to go it's a lot of fun
all right with that um any other reports um Ann and I are attending a Personnel committee meeting tomorrow to discuss Staffing for 2025 yep so she said it for me okay all right I attended a zoom call on the
Kingswood Ravine design and that's just about complete oh nice okay good and that's in the pionus creek water shed thank you I have something to report on the gpie center but first I will say that the city represented well in the crime
prevention golf tournament today we came in third um the glaspie center approved uh funds to repaint the building we picked kind of a nautical blue with white trim it's going to look totally different and we have uh 12 different logos for um a
group of us to kind of look at they're really amazing so it's going to have a really New Look by the end of maybe even June oh wow great congratulations I can kind of show you what the painting looks like we've also got a a sketch by an artist of what it's going to look like so cool that's really all I have to
report you played golf today in the rain in the pouring rain for five and a half hours I hope Jasper told you all that that is why I was because we were in the money so we had to stay for a while well thank you for doing that um
for a good cause all right good cause um with that then our business concludes and we can go home with a motion to adjourn thank you Miss rkin and Mr vicory seconded that all those in favor
signify with i i all those opposed motion passes by Bo and we'll see you on the 15th next meeting July I'll see you tomorrow and I'll see you tomorrow