--------- your meeting All right Is there a motion to go out of close session so move and go back into a regular meeting Is there a second second Thank you All those in favor signify with I I All those opposed Motion passes And we're back in open
session And we're back to our agenda schedule And next on the agenda is a Highway 7 corridor study presentation and that is listens Thank you Mayor Whan and council Um so
as a council may be aware um couple years ago uh Mindot encountered a or did a safety study along uh Highway 7 Um and subsequent to that
uh subsequent to that they uh initiated this corridor study So uh the safety study was conducted between 2021 and 2022 Um there's been concerns over the corridor historically but there was a fatality on Eureka that
really kind of spurred this um into this safety study Uh currently the study looks at the transportation needs future improvements in the corridor some improvement concepts and then they're looking to do some MDOT's looking to do some upgrades in 2029 with a resurfacing
project between Wildwood A to approximately Mil Street Um and so um they were looking at this as an opportunity to identify potential updates to the corridor that could be incorporated with that 2029 project Um there isn't there certainly isn't
anything set in stone This is um it's a concept and so uh the mindot staff and their consultant have been working with the technical folks from the communities along Highway 7 um to come up with these alternatives And now we're at a point
where we'd like to get council feedback um on these alternatives that we can um provide to mind in addition to the comments we've already provided and then Mandot will be opening this up for public comment as well but they wanted to get this in front of council first Um
so again I think the the one of the biggest takeaways though is that this this study is to be a guiding document when projects are developed So this isn't the beall end all Um but we certainly want to get council's feedback on what's being proposed through there
So uh to jump into this there's three alternatives that are being provided and and council you have a handout that Mindot prepared Uh the first is the no build which is the current condition Um and then they're looking at an alternative with roundabouts and then an
alternative with some non-traditional intersections And I have some graphics to illustrate what some of those non-traditional intersections mean So uh here's the corridor with the roundabouts alternatives Um so they show moving from west to east uh through
Minotrista here Uh we have a a 3/4 access at um Wildwood which is actually Hunter Hunter's Trail Um and that one initially there was some discussion about um removing that access point and I said
"No Hunter Trail is a state aid route We need that access to Highway 7 So what this proposal shows is a what we call a a 3/4 access So um so folks going westbound on 7 could take that left turn
into onto Hunters Um but you would not be able to make a left-handed turn from Hunters onto Seven So the the traffic team has um you know they look at what the turning movements are and those sorts of things Um so I know that you
know certainly that it's a a more restrictive access than what's out there today but again that was just it it's an alternative that they're looking at along with this roundabout Uh they're also looking at putting a roundabout in at uh County Road 92 Uh leaving the Kings Point um
roundabout but actually striping it back to a two-lane And I know there's there's been consternation with that and it was it was striped as a two-lane roundabout Um and so when we talked to the team about that and what the concerns from the city standpoint are with it being a
two-lane is that people were using the two lanes in the roundabout to pass Uh what the team reported is that um when that round when the Kings Point roundabout was initially installed um the design parameters at that time had a
certain distance for um merging into the into the roundabout Since then those design standards have changed and what they would look at at the King's Point roundabout is a longer lane and and that that would mitigate the I I see shaking
heads and I appreciate that Um I just wanted to let you know that when we brought that up that was the comment that these longer merge lanes would um alleviate that desire to do passing in the roundabout So can we can certainly continue to um reiterate that concern
with the team Um and then again if if this comes to if and when this comes to a project standpoint and it shows a roundabout we can certainly have uh the mindot team come and address the council and have those conversations Uh they're also proposing a roundabout
at uh County Road 44 and then um further east in the in the corridor Um they're looking at some roundabouts as well They just not like the stoplight at 44 Like why I mean so I know there's been accidents but it's not like a massive
accident area Well there was a there was a and why was what happened it wasn't the light's fault So my understanding from from Chief Falls was that it was um a driver confusion on the left uh on the
left turning um that they thought that a green meant that they could go no matter what Um whereas a green means yield and turn if you can safely So couldn't we just put one of the stop lights that has the green arrow and the yellow arrow and
seems like a much simpler So what one of the things that I I asked kind of a bunch of questions of Paul um from Mindot One of the things they say roundabouts do is slow people down And so so then you still might have
accidents but they're going to be less severe Yes So you're not going to have as many fatalities and that's what they're trying to avoid And once people know how to use roundabouts data says they are safer They are they are safer
And um if you travel overseas anywhere everybody has roundabouts now all over the place Um so once we motans figure out how to use them but they do slow traffic down and that's
what creates the better the safer aspect of them And then people hit at an angle rather than like correct Yep Right Too But um what I what I'm more
concerned about is the intersection at Hunter Crest and the intersection at Highland Road because um for future So currently Highland Road is not a good intersection I get that But um to have it what they're what
they're recommending would be a a right out only Yeah And then you'd have to go up who knows where maybe and then you'd have to turn around and it's it's confusing Well and I made the point I'm like I wouldn't be able to take Highland home from council if they do that which
I don't like I mean well that's but that's but that's not the only reason and we can't we can't make that decision based on on you Sorry people there's plenty and want to go That's right but also for future development because if you were to look at a map and David
knows this you go up Highland and on the corner of Highland and 110 um on up here there is about 40 acres that eventually will be developed Um and when that develops they can take 92 but they'll
also take Highland and getting out onto Highway 7 And there's other areas too that Highland is going to be the um the main corridor So I'm concerned about that So currently it might not warrant
it but I think in the future it will And I'm not I don't think it's a good expenditure of tax dollars to spend millions to create the Highland like they're saying Why not just create it as a roundabout today Yeah So and so that
that thank you for voice too for mentioning that mayor So this this shows what access points would remain either full access points or or partial like 3/4 The rest of them would be restricted to a right in right out Meaning you if
you're traveling along Highway 7 you can turn right onto the street And if you're on a side street you can turn right out onto Highway 7 and then you would need to utilize a roundabout or another intersection to turn and and redirect yourself And so the comment regarding
Highland Road has been made I've made that comment every time that Minotaatric wouldn't support that Um and so we had some conversations with the design team as far as putting you know would a roundabout be appropriate there and they're looking at you know the spacing of Highland Road with respect to the
corridor cuz you know later on in the slide deck and included in the information you were provided they have you know a matrix that shows um you know all these considerations that they're putting into these alternatives and and um you know the time the travel time
through the corridor is I believe it's the capacity of maintaining capacity and free flow of of highway Highway 7 is one of those and so if you put another roundabout in it diminishes from that but it's certainly been a comment that Mandot has heard before So well and to
the point of slowing down traffic that would slow down traffic going into St Bonnie substantially roundabout there right and and the comment that I provided to mind with regards to Highland is if that access is restricted to a right in right out the miniaturto
traffic would be going through St Bonnie right and I would be surprised if St Bonnie residents andor council would be happy with that alternative as well So um again this is this is high level stuff um you know looking at looking at
this as a as a guiding document but they certainly do want to hear those comments they've heard some of them have come from me um but certainly I would be relaying any council comments as well Um so the pros of this alternative is
improve safety and reduce delays at the intersections And then the cons that they identified are public acceptance because there are some access points that are being either restricted completely or um uh you know uh 3/4ers
at the case of Hunters Trail um and some longer travel distances So um another question David have you looked at this and have you been able to kind of make some comments because I know development we're talking about more
develop the bowl property potentially possibly a Kate property Have you been talking to or making comments on this no not not at this time I mean um a lot of very hypothetical situations Obviously
as soon as something's real and before us we'll send it to them immediately given where they're at in the process but um be a little premature okay for us to you know it's pure speculation at this point
And I think if there's going to be some development driven access point modifications I think at that time the developer will propose those and that might change or possibly even drive these things to happen sooner Um because right now I Allison indicated this is
going to be potentially the earliest is 2029 Five years So Oh okay If we have if we have a development that hits next year we might be able to do some of these in certain areas a little bit sooner and and have it be paired with
that development Okay So they can make those adjustments I mean if they So this study doesn't um you know any development through the corridor would certainly warrant another discussion with mind It's not this isn't meant to
be like oh we have a development it's not consistent with what we showed for access points on on the highway 7 corridor The what they've done though the benefit of this when it comes to development is Mandot's already got all the data on safety and kind of the
vision for the whole corridor so that when it time does come for development to occur along Highway 7 some of that background information is already available and it's been vetted So I think that's a benefit for any development team coming into the city And and again they would go through as
Dave as David mentioned they would go through Mandot as far as access points and um uh review of their of their roadway system and connections So um go ahead Oh well I was going to say
um so I assume the roundabouts deal with the high incidence of fatalities from rear end collisions which I think that was the number one cause of death Um but the second one was just single car going off the road I don't see anything in
here about that or is there anything you can do about that um that's a good question and I'm not I'm not intimately familiar with with the the accidents that have occurred along the corridor Um you know certainly they want to present an alternative that
um would reduce the um likelihood of all accidents but there might not be um something that's technically or economically feasible to address all of those because some of those are driver inattentiveness And um you know they certainly looked at some of these curves
through here and and and that um was uh part of uh their considerations with uh with what the alternatives they provided Oh we just lost it Um I had Sorry Oh no Sorry I had the opportunity to listen to
CH uh Chief Barno from Orno Barno Barnac and he said um this year or last year was the first time in the history of driving that um fatalities were caused by people texting and driving and on
their phones opposed to being impaired So I think these problems are more we need to find judges that will actually punish people that are driving while they're on their cell phones than spending millions of dollars putting
in roundabouts And and I think the problem is distracted driving not traffic and the lights That's just kind of what I'm hearing I drive on seven several times a day I live right off of Highway 7 in one of those intersections It is not a problem
No And I think most people realize when they're looking at oncoming traffic and they have a green light that they can't turn right in front of somebody unless they have the the other thing that Mindot wants to do they want to keep traffic flowing And so what they look at
um daily ADTS and and also projected AD daily traffic counts Okay And then they say "Okay how can we handle it's a two-lane highway how can we handle this kind of volume and I think currently they have about 14,000 um traffic uh
movements in this area just in this segment and they're projecting more like in the near future how do you future probably more like 20,000 and so so that's the other reason they're trying to figure out how
to keep the traffic moving versus these traffic jams I don't know if any of you ever have have had to drive up 169 through Elk River on a weekend Okay I'm just telling you how awful it is And I'm looking at Ally because she knows um it
was just awful I mean it would be backed from Elk River It would be backed up all the way to Rogers I mean I'm not kidding you And so 35 going it's very difficult So what they're what they do is they look at this and they do projections and they
say "Okay how can we avoid that kind of traffic jam?" So it's it's the safety but it's also keeping traffic moving So it's is there a reason they just don't make it a limited access highway and get rid of 90% of the intersections so they are they are removing a lot of
intersections with but I mean what kind of No no no Just frontage You'd have a have to have a frontage Have a frontage I see So um like further further east in this segment So they they they um they're identifying this as two
different segments They kind of have more of the rural part here starting in Minotarista moving to the east and then they have another segment Um so I'm not I'm not familiar with intimately familiar with like absolute closures but I know that was on the table at one point um with some of these access
points because they do want to encourage if there's if there's a roadway system internal to a city available that they can remove access points they certainly look at those alternatives Um but with that comes you know now you're looking at instead of just doing a a
construction corridor through Highway 7 you're now looking at you know do you have to realign things in the cities as well so um there they've certainly I I think they've left no stone unturned They did have other alternatives through here Um but these are the the two
alternatives that they're well including the no builds the two construction alternatives that they're bringing forward raised medium between intersections in these that would that would be like 12 Yes exactly Yeah that's exactly the the example they provided Yeah that did
eliminate fatalities that that helped right but then yeah you you can't obviously had to raise medians where there's an intersection but um yeah and and then I also asked well how far in advance of let's say a roundabout do
those medians go away you know the so they said about 200 feet so so you can visually see the the roundabout or whatever Aruba has medians in their roundabout and so you can't cut over in them which I thought was genius
Yeah that was the big takeaway on there This one this alternative four where they show the three/4er intersection So if you wanted to go east on Highland Road you'd have to go over three miles west to 10 right to that roundabout and then
come back Yeah Yeah If if you were to make a a a right turn on to seven Yeah If you were leaving Buddy Boys with alternative four there is no roundabout close by and you can't make a Uturn So yeah that would be
horrible They won't be going round trip Yeah Yeah Right Right Yeah to that one What is an rci so an rci here we'll go over to that So an rci is and I these are terms that I am not That's a reduced conflict intersection So this one that's
alternative number two that they're bringing forward or what they're calling non-traditional intersections alternatives And so keep in mind you know again these are guiding documents Is it going to be is this exactly either of these alternatives what it would
ultimately look like probably not Um but you know these are certainly the the talking points that they want to bring forward So so here as we move through the corridor again we're seeing the same 3/4 access at Hunter um at signal at at
92 They show the the 3/4 at Highland which you know at least we get access there but still not the full access that um that they've been hearing from us uh hearing from me from a comment uh the uh roundabout at Kings Point and then they
do this green tea at 44 and I have a graphic on that that kind of explains it a little bit better and then um other Yeah What is a green tea at green tea cuz I didn't So green tea is on the top left there So if you look at it I I
oriented it so that it would be it it aligns with how highway 7 is at Caner Road 44 So green T you can see that eastbound Highway 7 is split off from the turning traffic on coming off of County Road 44 So southbound so so
drivers on 44 that want to make that left turn onto Highway 7 you can see that there's they have a signal there and then they have um it it's a little bit of a splitter there So it's yeah they get a an acceleration lane to come in and merge
then with highway 7 traffic This graphic shows it as as multi-lane but highway 7 would still be you know the two one a lane in each direction but it keeps that eastbound highway 7 free flowing and separated So essentially they don't have a stop condition there The eastbound
doesn't Yes Correct But the westbound You talk about um confusing I mean but okay Well there's some interesting Yeah interesting Um again I I just think these um rcis are are not going to work
Now we talked about the rci at um Marywood and that I could see if they have a roundabout at 44 That would make some sense Um we could maybe entertain that but um because that's only a very short distance So if there's a
roundabout at 44 people could come out of Mrywood then go around the roundabout to go east Um and I asked that question and actually it Paul was saying well um it would actually save people time at
so it wouldn't have so much of a problem but we have to talk to fire departments and police departments to see how that would work because when they're if they're on a call and they have to go in to Marywood I would be concerned about the time it would take because then they would have to go all the way up to rolling acres and come back and that
would be way out of the way So we'd have to figure that out Yeah So certainly we want to have those conversations as we get deeper into the details and um and and providing some constructive feedback for them That's certainly one thing that we would want our emergency services
um uh response times looked at So I think right now I would say the um rci at um Hunter Crest Hunter Trail and Highland No but the other thing they
said if they did the rci at Highland they may have to improve that bridge And then I said "Well you might as well just put in a roundabout then because then it might cost less." Yeah So just to clarify three Yeah Hunters and Highlander 3/4 access are done RCI rcis
are are outside of Minatrista They're the eastern three at 13asha and 41 Um but I just wanted three quarters I'm sorry Yeah Three quarters There's quarters Mhm So anyhow those are But the good news is and it I don't see it in
this packet is they are talking about adding a trail along Highway 7 Um I think on the north side or south got to be south Believe it's on the south side Okay South side That would be nice Yeah And so in Minitrista you know we've we
talked a little bit about frontage roads and and that sort of thing The challenge in Minatrista is the the wetlands and the topography um along Highway 7 Um just to get some to try to get some internal you know within the city off the Highway 7 corridor to get those
connections would be extremely challenging from an environmental standpoint So um you know a a lot of things moving around there but that's that's one that I don't know how we'd be able to get that some of those internal um right
connections via with a frontage road because it's just too difficult So um but before this so what happens is the city has to approve these improvements I believe So ultimately what what the
what MDOT's asking for right now is feedback They got it from the technical folks We've provided that um they're looking to get council feedback and and quite frankly to have council see this before it goes out because it will be going out for public comment So we wanted to make sure that councils saw
this before um residents do so that um you know if you get any anybody calling you rest assured we you know you know what it's about and you can tell them what an rci is and what a three quarter intersection is right
and so when we were looking through these um just to kind of finalize the conversation on the non-traditional and then we can talk about the matrix and the the um the feedback that we've already provided MIDOT again improve
travel time along seven and improve safety are the pros and then the cons are increase and delay on the side roads potentially um pedestrian crossing safety where there's no and where there's uh no signal um increased cost these these non-traditional
intersections tend to have a higher price tag on them and then some longer travel distances without having those those roundabouts through the corridor So um I don't want to go through it too quickly because there is a lot of information and I I fully anticipate that council would want to take the time
to digest this but I wanted to have this discussion before you know providing you all this information so we could have some context on this This is um an alternatives evaluation and it's included in the packet that you have um where they're looking at you know each
alternative does it really hit the mark on you know vehicle safety or walkability Um and so this is something that uh Mandat looks at when they're considering certain alternatives um whether it be no build roundabouts or the non-traditional
So I'm assuming if it's green um green is good Green is good red is bad and yellow is inate Yep Yep Okay Um and then again the some of the feedback that we've already provided to date was the
request be full access at Highland Um we did indicate that there was past issues with two lanes at Kings Point Roundabout We talked about the increased potential increased emergency response time particularly at Marywood Um and then we did mention that access for future
development along the corridor and mindot indicated that um again through this process any any development that occurs through the corridor it would having this study in place doesn't change h how their process to it What's changed is that they now have a lot of
background information on um you know what's the ultimate vision for the corridor what are some of the volumes um traffic volumes that they're looking at um so that when these development plans come in they can look at it um from a corridor standpoint as well instead of
just looking at it you know okay what's what's happening at where you're proposing if you're proposing an access or you know you're increasing traffic volumes on 92 or something like that Um so there's some background information that's already been done some leg
work So um I know it's a lot of information I know it's I mean some of these are um when you see uh you know a proposal for restricting access points to to other roads it it can be um a
little shocking Um but again it's we they were looking at this from a corridor standpoint this is um you know it's it's the full corridor all the way to St Louis Park um and so before they before they go through and and look at
alternatives they're looking to get feedback So if there's something right off the mark that council would like me to convey to mind um that we haven't conveyed already I'm certainly happy to do that Um and it's it's not like you
know if I don't hear from folks within a couple weeks that's we've missed our opportunity That's not the case at all Um this is an ongoing um process Um oh I thought I had in here the um the timeline Um but we're looking to Yeah it
is in here somewhere maybe in the packet Yeah it was like final design or something like that September September report they'll be getting it they'll be getting this out um you know out for review and
and again just because it's it's a study that's in place any any project that were to come along the Highway 7 corridor would still come through a municipal consent process This isn't this doesn't mean that you know if the city doesn't provide any comments
besides what we've already provided them um that we're locking into it it it's still it still goes through that process but they want to know like oh you know they're been pretty adamant about Highland being a full access the whole time So you know taking that into
consideration I think we've kind of identified most of them and again there might be some um they might have to look into something regarding the um access to Marywood for especially for emergencies So we need to do that And I think everything else we've kind of
identified a single single roundabout at Kings Point Here's the thing I don't see like so they have the double they have high highway 12 and as you're going you've gone through Maple Plane and now you're in Independence and they have that roundabout It's a double roundabout but I don't know why or how that makes
traffic flow better you know because you have to slow down no matter what And also um so I don't know why we would say yes to a double roundabout when we've already already we've tried it and it's it's doesn't work I I think it has to do
with capacity It's with moving more cars through that roundabout So and and when Macintothun went in um we were talking about what the traffic volumes were on seven and and we're if I remember correctly we're not at that level where
the two-lane roundabout was needed from a capacity standpoint but certainly when that roundabout went in and they looked at what are the future of volumes that are anticipated on seven that's why the two-lane came into play And so that's the benefit of having the two-lane roundabout is you can still get more
vehicles through there The challenge being in this instance there was there were people passing through there and and we can certainly ask the technical folks um that were you know KJ and and MDOT when you have more vehicles when you're getting closer to that capacity
when you need that two lanes then can you add that right Well and and does that prevent people from trying to pass because now you've got two two vehicles going through there and pretty good consistent stretch because in rush hour that roundabout's getting getting pretty busy But it's not I mean it it actually
works out really nice to have the turn light get out if you need to Is it a double out by mayor um no single I don't understand why you put a double one in It's a single lane road Like it's single single It's not like you're turning into Yeah you still you still have to merge
back together I I don't know My my guess is they they striped it for what would ultimately be out there to get people used to this is how you maneuver through this particular roundabout Um so that's a good question for the team and and they might not not know either but I do remember when that was restriped from
two to one because of those concerns So no So I think you've okay kind of covered I mean I think we've covered we like the trail Okay But as the trail goes under 11 for instance that they should do an
underpass there's a underpass than under um seven So they should figure out So if you're on Highway 7 and you're on the trail and you get to 11 then you should go underneath so you can connect to the trail that goes underneath seven Okay
So just you know saying Okay Yeah I mean because you do not want to cross over at a roundabout I They said I said that I said "Why would you put a crosswalk at a roundabout?" I mean it's the worst possible place for a
crosswalk 41 of all those people crossing from the school there That just seems like you're going to have more accidents and fatalities Yeah Well and at 41 they're actually um they're putting in a roundabout on at 41 at the middle school and I think that's this
summer if I remember correctly because that that one's been on the docket for a while now Okay So hopefully they can they can get some of those student movements pedestrian movements at the actual entrance to the middle school I've actually seen roundabout swift
lights to allow people to cross if there's a pedestrian Yeah Mhm I should just leave the stop lights in that Yeah I mean I could see pedestrian crossings at roundabouts that you know like we have one on H Hallstead I mean there maybe um sure there's not a lot of
traffic but on Highway 7 or 12 no not a good idea Possible to steer all walkers away from Highway 7 Yeah Yeah All right Do you need any any other comments or questions of Allison otherwise I'll keep the council apprised when when Mandot
says it goes out for public comment just so that you might be aware that other folks might be seeing it We'll certainly share that with city staff so that we could have a link on the city website so that folks can go ahead and comment on that Thank you Thank you So we'll move on to our fire our JPA um kind of a
quick update Yeah I mean um so your fire GPA group as Mayor Whan Council Member Refkin and myself we've had a series of meetings a lot of meetings and we've started talking more about the formula to
determine who pays for what and we've been doing a lot of back and forth with that Um we're working on JPA terms We have a couple of those kind of worked out I think but there's going to be a series of other ones I think we're kind of at a sticking point with the formula
to try to figure out what we're going to do Um we've had meetings with Spring Park and St Bonnie We haven't met directly with Mound Uh but we have put out that offer to meet directly because it seems like mound and miniaturista need to maybe get together to kind of
work out the differences and what they think the formula should be since they're the two entities that are you know 80% plus of of the financial contributions Um so we're kind of at that point where um we're talking about it We're trying to work through the
things I think our group is looking for maybe some direction as far as the formula goes without getting into like we don't want to go into all the nitty-gritty details Yeah So um Exactly Because there's a lot of nuances right and we kind of tried to start the
conversation by saying well what are your values as a group to form the formula and that quickly went we don't really care about that We just want to know what the financial burden is going to be to each of the communities And then it started going into this well what's better for each community and
we're trying to figure that out right now So it's it's it's becoming challenging Um right now go ahead So right now we have contract with St Bonnie and contract with Mount And the formula for St Bonnie is 50% u market
value and 50% is based on um call hours With Mound it's a little different It's um a threeprong thing approach Population market value and call hours I the group the one thing we do agree on is to do a simpler uh formula that's
market value driven and and um call volume call volume and it's call hours So here's where the sticking point is We um were we would like it to be our our formula would like it to be 5050 50%
market value 50% call hours for Minitrista that is and actually not just for Minitrista but that's actually the most fair way of doing it and that's the most fair way for all communities really Um but Mound doesn't want that because
they would have to pay more and Spring Park doesn't want it because Spring Park's market value is is nowhere near ours but their call volume is very high So they don't want that So here so then another one was floated that 60% market
value 40% call volume And then another one was floated uh 70% market value 30% call volume and Mound and Spring Park kind of want that formula Well and they want that formula with it eventually going 100% market value They want to
transition to 100% market value which quite frankly in our mind there's no reason Minister would ever do that We'd be paying close to 1.9 We'd be paying close to $2 million by year 10 which if we're going to do that we might as well start our own fire department Yeah It
will I'll say that the nuance with the market value was there was this idea that after 10 years we would try to transition to a district that was really really put to bed that that wasn't the case at the last meeting So I think the market value piece is off the table at
this that's why we wanted to bring it to council So we're hoping you will agree that we are completely against 100% market value and minister will not agree to those terms So 100% market value What that does for Minatrista is of course
because we're the growing community We're adding 100 or so new homes a year which drives up our market value Our market value has been going up about on average 8% a year Whereas the other communities St Bonnie none basically or
very little and Spring Park very little and Mound also very little So eventually we will be paying over 50% of the of the budget based on market value only We decide we said we would be willing to go
that route if we eventually after 10 years were to transition and uh go over into a fire district and that that was totally set aside immediately So we can't we're not doing that So we're
coming to you We need marching orders So Kathleen came up with another alternative which we we would like to pitch to the group to see if they would do this And her plan I think is actually a good one but um no it is it I I think
it it would be fair to everybody but we would take a big hit the first year So her plan was doing 25 um call volume and 75 market value the first year What that means to Minatrista is it would give us
a 2.61% levy hit the first year In other words we would have to raise our levy just for just for the fire department by 2.61% for that year However uh the spreadsheet that she did would then
reduce would would bring it down to eventually a 50/50 split So by year 2031 it would be 50/50 and then it would hold firm at 50/50 So basically we would be subsidizing the first couple years So that way Spring Park and Mounds initial
hits aren't as high initially which I'm hoping they would agree to St Bonnie is kind of irrelevant They they stay at 5% of the cost no matter what kind of plan you put out there They're just that steady so it doesn't really impact them and they they specifically said "We're we'll basically agree to whatever
contract term fight you guys have like whatever you three come up with." So we thought this might be a good way to get Mound to agree Mound and Spring Park are kind of getting the biggest are getting a big hit We are too um the first year
So we're trying to bring them on board and also with the idea that we're eventually going to do a 50/50 split Um so but we just we just don't think 100% market value is in our best interest So
we're going to try and negotiate and we just kind of want your feedback Why would we be taking a bigger hit around who's then getting a a deal so so that they will agree to a 5050 eventually
because if we get to the 50 they won't agree to just start at 50/50 We're fairly positive because the amount that Mound's budget would go up they won't agree to it Um and Spring Parks would go up more than they can reasonably do that
first year So we would be in a in a way we again we'd be subsidizing it to get them to agree to it because then by the time we get to uh year 2031 when it's 50/50 we're paying 40% of the budget Mound's paying 41% of the budget Spring Park's paying 12 and then it's just level from there So it's it's more of a
step for them where they can budget better Yeah Whereas if we did a market value only we would be about 51% of the budget 49 to 51 depending on But that's only after a certain number of years Then keep in mind we're going to
continue to grow So we're going to end up being more than 50% of the budget if you do just market value I guess the way we look at it is you know I don't look at it necessarily in terms of what's what financial burden we have to carry I
look at what's fair you know what's fair for everyone And and if our neighbors can't absorb a big hit the first year okay let's see how we can then make this work That's kind of how I look But at
the end after four or five years I think it needs to level out and it needs to be fair And so that's kind and everybody needs um everybody needs fire service you know and everybody needs the apparatus and everybody you know whe
it's kind of like the treatment plant you know everybody needs the treatment plant no matter how much water you use or don't use So um what was the objection to the fire district it seems like that would have been pretty equitable We don't know
I think we we do It's because nobody else there's only two in the state and there's some major opposition to it but that's it That's um it's it's literally that two one person in particular just doesn't want to do it So it's the
discussion is over with And that is also the point of us trying to find a comparable formula where we're not paying so much over the long term like we'll we'll take the hit initially because we can gauge that better than like this mindset of like well Minatric is just going to be end up paying all of
this later down the road like no but we'll take it initially to I guess reach a negotiable settlement to move forward with it Yeah I like the idea of essentially financially incenting them to get into it as long as it's a firm commitment that they're Oh yeah And the
the plan would be the terms lay out like the first year it's this percentage the second year it's this percentage the next one is this one and then that's where it holds And also we've talked about which is probably more details than you want but the the budget would step up or it would it would be the
first year it's a 12% budget increase just because of what they need for the two and then the next year it would be eight or seven and that would be in the terms too and then when it levels out at the 4% in year 2031 that's when you need votes to go over 4% increase and all that kind of stuff So like the terms
would be very very laid out of who's paying what the percentage and then where it levels out and that's where it stays I would consider building in some financial penalties if somebody does try to back out Oh yeah there's Oh yeah The this we're just talking right
now We just need to get past the formula part before we get down to the the the agreement So there's a I don't know a 10page um J it's called a JPA agreement and all of what you're talking about that'll all be spelled out in that
agreement what what it would take for somebody to back out if they wanted to and it's going to be expensive So yeah you want to make it financially not feasible for them to leave once we do all this work So anyhow if you're we're just kind of
hoping you're go for it and that we can say our council is adamant we will not agree to a 7030 Okay that was that was the 100% market I think we're being fair Like you said we're doing the right thing All right Well we will do our best Isn't it pretty
common for when you look at these acquire agreements around the states for calls is 25 to 50% of affordance Well the problem is Excelsiars is 100% market value Yeah So that's what Spring Park liked when they heard it and obviously
Mountain loves hearing that idea But um like Chief um Greg said like the Madina um long um Madina Corkran camel They do a 50-50 one So they they ended up because Corkran and Madina are very
similar to Minatrista They're growing and they see that if it went 100% market value that they would be paying you know 80% or whatever And well whatever you know and they they ended up saying "Hey
the most fair the fairest um is 5050." I don't know that we'll get there but we'll we're going to keep trying We're going to keep trying And Mark I tell you it seems like it would make sense if the composition of the cities were very similar Exactly Retirement homes up
there on which I'm sure is majority of the Yeah Yeah No you're right If if we were like let's say Madina Corkran and Minatrista were together then 100 it wouldn't matter I mean 100 because we're the composition is very similar Very
similar We're growing Our demographics are similar I mean Yeah and then 100% market value might be the same But when you're dealing with a big growing city you're dealing with another medium city that's not growing Um and then two tiny
cities it's it's really difficult So we'll do our best All right Okay We'll keep you posted Next um we have to talk about residential chickens [Laughter]
All right I I'll hand this off to David David very quick Uh yeah it sounds like chickens have come up here and especially over this last year it has come up you know several times in my time here but it seems more prevalent
now here recently and as uh asked by the city council they wanted to discuss this at a work session Uh put the current definitions of city code um from some chapter 11 that regards animals Um quick overview farm animals are allowed in
95% of our city because it's mostly zoned egg and egg preserve Um the residential zoned properties you cannot have farm animals and that's where chicken falls under that purview unless you have a 10acre parcel Then you can
have chickens in the residential district and there's not obviously very many of those uh in the city So again we put the uh definitions in there for you for your consideration And then it it would be a very simple um if if it is the direction of council that you do
want to go down the path of allowing chickens in the residential district Second page of the staff report it'd be as simple as adding a a a B section there It's highlighted in yellow where we um I think a few numbers been thrown
around there but I think one one that seems favorable um would be three egg laying chicken hens may be kept on residential lots would be a very simple and easy way if that is again something the council um wanted to go down the
path of doing um in our research and reaching out to specifically all the lake communities we have a planners group um of all the lake communities that we talked to often and we asked um how many do do this there are several
that do but um what the feedback we got is um if you're going to do it um make it simple Uh you know don't do permitting don't you know get in get into any nuances because it just gets more complicated Um and the other thing
was don't o hold a neighborhood meeting regarding chickens cuz we'll never do that again because just as many people as you think are in support there's that many that are not So I would be keep your neighbors happy That was the one advice we got from one
of the lake communities Um so I would urge you not to do that but um again this is a simple fix uh to it if if this is what the c the direction of the council uh would like to do would not require um uh a public hearing This is
not chapter 5 Um so it does not have to go to the planning commission is chapter 11 Um and so it's at the discretion of council if you so choose to to go down that path Uh can I say something mhm Luckily for
councilwoman Ruffkin she has an HOA That supersedes the city But who knows what will pass at the state level So like you can't just rely on hey you have an HOA you don't have to deal with it because the state is literally trying to take away my HOA's rights Well the bill
housing bill or something like that Yeah Well anyway that's a whole another subject I think um what what what I found out is that there are a lot of they call them outlaws in Minitista that have chickens and no one's complaining
and no one knows and nobody cares Um I don't know who these people are but I've been told Um I don't have any chickens by the way Um but I check come on over I want chickens and as a council woman I don't want chickens unless the city
thinks it's okay Um I think that Min uh Minatrista is much less populated than Minnetonka or Edina They both allow chickens Um a couple people that I've spoken to that live here in Minatrista
now have come from Chicago and had backyards that were 20 by 20 and they had chickens and they loved it and they never had any complaints So I think being that we're Minatrista we should allow hens of course no roosters I do think we should adopt something a little
bit more like Minnotonka which is one hen per tenth of an acre Um I have seven ten of an acre You know if I had six hens I don't really think that's a lot of h that's a lot of chickens And then
you have to think about the eggs and the things that come with like rodents come with them and other like other animals come to like coyotes will come and try and we have coyotes in our every single but like the it's not just where like they
bring stuff with them like rodents and feces and I think you're really against chickens and there's a lot of people that are really fortunate We have tons of acres in Minnesota they can buy and have all the chickens they want That's the cool thing about Minatrista We have the residential where it's not allowed
and we have the rule where it is It's blended You have Minnetonka you don't have the rule where they can do it Chicago has no space to do anything like we and yet they're doing it successfully But we have lots available to do it Okay there's a couple things Okay one you'd
have to have six or seven chickens does not work And here's why Because one you have to think of the poop Okay too You have to think about the eggs They lay every chicken lay asked the resident um
chicken owner Um they lay one egg a day So if you had seven I mean what are you going to do with all these eggs i may have you have to harvest them You have to pick them every single day Otherwise you do because you know who likes eggs
uh skunks like eggs Uh raccoons like eggs Um there's uh what a possums like eggs I mean and then and then there's the coyotes and the um what other ones that like the chickens Okay I'm back to I'm I'm back to our No but bringing
these these No but I'm just saying into the neighborhoods that aren't necessarily expecting them to suddenly be there but they're there and you just don't know about it Well they're all doing it very happily And so if if so if if the city want if they want to do it
you have to have a maximum of two to three you have to say hands only You have to have a minimum keep them locked up but they have to be completely enclosed and and it has to be 100% on the owner's responsibility if
they get loose and they do damage to other people's property And it has to and it has to also say that the um HOA if it does not allow um hens that it doesn't supersede I mean what I'm saying is all of those things but I'm I think
the minimum lot size needs to be half an acre half an acre or something like that I mean I I yeah I don't think it's so min uh Minnotonkas is one bird peret of an acre Can we say one bird
per 12th No because I live on a very large yacht But how big is your It's like seven uh 3/4 3/4 of an acre I could easily have in my backyard which is huge I feel you know three little chickens
and you would never know And and and I don't have chickens One acre One acre I think there's a lot of people in this community that live on small lots 4,000 We should allow them to have a little pen with two chickens in it Well I I haven't looked at a lot of cities
but I looked at Maple Plane and they allow them But they do require a permit Uh we don't want permits We don't want permit but they have a lot of restrictions on like how close the pen can be to the neighbors the setbacks
Uh does it meet the does it need a permit you know if there's electrical work does it have to you know be permitted and that was true in Minneapolis and St Paul St Paul actually inspects them Um which just raised a big red flag for me because that we don't
want that They Well no but I mean that means they're worried about it and and they're willing to put a lot of time and and city time you know effort into it Did any of you read the letter from Joe Rogers did you send that out to everyone i think everybody Yeah everyone should
have read this It says it's a simple change to our ordinance It simply says small exception for foul Foreign exception shall be made to subsection for foul Miniaturitrista residents may own chickens f one bird per and we can
change this Um uh he has here one bird onetenth of an acre but must follow these regulations Hens only no roosters must be kept not kept in the front yard must be um kept uh the area must be cleaned by the property owners The
shelter must be adequate in size must be kept clean the smell can't leave the property etc etc It's that's why I'm saying it has to be more than you know 10 10,000 square ft Um and those are the kind of lots or 20,000 square ft Um those are the size lots that are like in
Turtle Creek for instance They're they're not the 40,000 square foot lots Many of them aren't But if you were to do a minimum lot size and setbacks and and no lights so that you know and
they have to be completely enclosed and they have to stay enclosed Um you know maybe you can make it work but it has to have a minimum lot size How many complaints have we had for people that have chickens we do we have we ever had
a complaint Claudia we don't have them not allowed in red The point is is there's a lot of people with chickens We have had that's my point There are a lot of people in Minatrista with chickens and we haven't had any complaints So the neighbors must not care or they must not
be a problem or these people branch road Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah The in they were in the agricultural zone Yeah So it's a problem there It's going to be a bigger problem going to be I mean if we do this you're going to
have people who put these in who don't take care of them who have the chickens they aren't contained I don't think people are going to come out of the woodwork and decide to go run out and buy chickens I think that people that want chickens have them now and we just don't know about it then that's fine they're then they're someone complains
and that's fine well I would like to have two chickens and I'm not doing this for me but now that I've been educated by all of these people that are calling me I would never go get chickens unless the city allowed it because I am a council member So hold on Let's just do
a couple things First of all we haven't had a lot of complaints because we don't have a lot we don't have a lot of people on small lots in the residential area that currently have chickens So that's that's probably why we don't have a lot of What is a small lot i'm talk in the
residential area I don't think we have a lot of people that have chickens Oh yeah we do Oh okay How many are people living well I'm not I I on on County Road 44 there's one one homeowner that wants chickens I I don't even know who that is
Yeah I mean I I I just know that um and I spoke to a woman the other day I'm sure she wrote a letter Um she's funny She was an attorney She's like "I'm an attorney." I'm like "Oh I'm going to be really careful what I say." She was um very u passionate about chickens and
just that so many people in these little tiny cities I mean didn't you say in Chicago wasn't you that uh No I know in Minneapolis you're like in Minneapolis chickens in Minneapolis for Pete's sake We're Minatrista Okay Let me
just ask a question Is any is anybody interested in a kind of a um how do you say something uh with big limitations anybody interested in allowing chickens with a lot of regulations or limitations yes Okay
Brian Yep Okay No No No Oh gee And honestly I view it more from a a federalist like this If we if we're looking at if we're making it subject to HOA I I don't have data but I'm going to
guess 90 plus% of people that own lots that we're talking about doing chickens on are subject to an HOA The HOAs are closest to the will of the people And so if I think that's probably the better spot to put a blanket chicken you know
chicken regulations on that's going to serve the people rather than at the city level So so here's my my take on it If we put a lot of regulations and and probably more than what you would want but some
regulations maybe two chickens on on lot sizes that are at least what 20,000 square feet or something that is acreage What is 20,000 quarter of an acre probably a little under half an acre Half an acre Just just a little under half an acre Um can
you listen be happy in your literally that the chickens will be the least of your problems No they won't Okay we don't have to argue about it We know we know your position and we know your position And I love you Kathleen I understand I don't want chickens next to
me I I know how big you're not going to have them You have an HOA It takes a different president on an HOA and you can change the rules So you can't just go "We have an HOA We're fine." Because the board on the HOAs change That is true So it what goes now for an HOA in any of the numerous ones could change
next year I mean like it's not we could say halfacre lots then which would really eliminate pretty much every lot in an HOA Yes In a current if you want to do a halfacre lot fine But if it's it shouldn't be less than a half acre
They're too small So that would be the compromise I would think a quarter acre I think a quarter acre is fair No And one come on That's a big I tell you what a bunny is a bunny Okay Okay Hold on Let's do this Okay Let's hold on just a
second Let's Let's do this And this this is why David is saying do not do a public hearing because think about how emotional you guys are I got a rule for this side and that side So here's the
thing Why don't we I'm going to ask David to do to do us a favor and come back and just tell us in Turtle Creek Hunter Crest and Woodland Cove How many um halfacre or quarter acre lots do we have what is the potential okay then I I
I kind of need to find out what is the potential in these developed areas okay for for chickens if and what should we do should we do a quarter acre should we do a third acre half an acre let's just say it's going to be between a quarter and a half Okay somewhere in that range
And then we're going to set um then we're going to set the maximum at we're going to start out at two if somebody wants to change it later And then we also have to know what the setbacks need to be Okay And then whatever other ideas or restrictions we want to put on this
will bring this back Is that it's a compromise but um I think we know it's fine We saw it last week or last time I'm fine being the only no I'm just But but it's good to have nos and yeses
and may because then hopefully we can have something that will be doable and still be um workable Um do we do we know how many is there some magic button you can push that tells us how many
uh quarter acre lots we have not in HOAs there the So you're going to have neighborhoods I'm just clicking around All of Turtle Creek's fine I mean like Saunders you're going to have neighborhoods now that some of those neighborhoods you're going to have lots that can and some cannot You know you're
creating more problems there obviously because why can my neighbor have one and I can't Um so I you know versus 3 Put it this way I think we have to have some more more conversation on this and we don't
have time right now So if that's okay uh we'll bring it back with some maybe some recommendations Can we do that well I think what we can do is give you kind of a dichotomy of you want this or that you know okay Um and I think we can do a kind of an analysis I would stay away
from like putting a acreage number on there just because it becomes problematic Well we have an acreage number on there already Well I know but I think from the standpoint David just pointed out like you might have neighbors that are you know 01 acres apart you know sizewise that one can
have it one can't Um and the county isn't completely accurate We're not going to always have a registered land survey on file Okay All right The wetlands what what are you counting dry land thank you I mean there's so many it it becomes more if you're gonna allow it
just Okay Can we say anything under Can we say something like under one acre the maximum is two chickens no I think these other cities have these rules in place They do Why can't we just some benchmarking that probably be restrictions and everything is they have
problems with staff is going to bring back staff is going to bring back some information based on what they've heard here today and based on their their knowledge We're going to depend on them their knowledge and I think you're making some good points So thank you Um what we're also going to do is we're
going to move the um council um let's see um we code of conduct We're going to move that to our next work session because we just won't have time And just kind of FYI this has nothing to do with any of us We're good We're great Um we
don't have this issue I was thinking we need to do this before we have an issue So um that that's why we're doing it And a lot of I checked with a lot of mayors and there's quite a few cities especially around us that either already have it or are currently doing it and we
don't want to end up like a neighboring city Anyhow so that's why we're doing it I just want to make it clear it's not because any of us are are a problem So with that um I'm going to ask that somebody make a motion to adjurnn and we will be back at 7 o'clock for our
regular meeting So move Thank you And who's second second Kathleen seconded that All those in favor signify with I I All those opposed Motion passes 5 So sorry staff to put it on you but I know you'll do a
great job Part: 2
recording. So, I'm going to call the meeting to order. This is the uh city council meeting for Minatrista, April 21st, 2025. Uh first, I'd like to ask that you all stand and join me for pledge of allegiance. Algiance to the flag of the United
States of America and to the republic for it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And then just a reminder, if you have cell phones, please turn them on silent
or airplane mode so they don't disrupt the meeting. And then I'm going to start by introductions. I'm Lisa Whan. I'm the mayor. And to my left are council members Kathleen Rufkin, Peter Vickery, Claudia Lacy, and Brian Govern. And then staff that's present this evening um in
person I should say is Ally Pulus our assistant administrator Jasper Krugal our administrator Brian Grim our finance director and our chief of police Paul um Paul Okay sorry Paul just retired. Okay come on
give me a break. This is the first meeting you've been at as our new chief. So, um, welcome, uh, Chief Squireers, and we're glad to have you here. Uh, and then we have remote, uh, we have we have, uh,
the clerk, Ann Meeroff, and Sarah Sulla, our city attorney. Okay, so hi Ann and Sarah. Uh, with that, is there then a motion to approve the agenda or is any changes? Hearing none, all those um, is there a motion to approve the agenda? So
moved. Thank you, Miss Lacy. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Mr. G Graham. I govern too many Brians. All right. All those in favor signify with I. I. All those opposed. Motion passes. So, we do have one special presentation this
evening. It's our first quarter financial update and then we have persons to be heard and we do have somebody sign up. So, first of all, Brian, you want to give us the good news? Yeah, Marian council. So yeah, first quarter of the year is usually pretty um I don't know, tame is the
right word. It's usually not, you know, too much going on. So and and this uh first quarter of 2025 is um pretty much like the other ones. Um we don't have um our first half tax settlement doesn't come in until that June July time frame. So you can see on the revenue um page
that was included in the packet our revenues. We've only collected 6% of our overall annual budget, but that'll catch up by, you know, like I said, mid year here. Um, one point I did have in the memo was that our our permits um for new homes are are doing pretty well. I think
we've collected about 24% of that about um for the first quarter here and hopefully things keep going here. So, um that's that's a good sign there. As far as the expenditures, um we're basically at about 28% of our
overall um total budget for the year of our actual expenditures so far. Pretty comparable to the previous year. We were at 27% last time. And the reason we're usually over a little bit is there's some things we've paid um the annual amounts for like our property insurance, workers compensation insurance, and
we've paid actually um you know, we talked about the fire in our work session, but we paid um half of our um amounts to city of St. Bonafations and city amount. So those are through basically you know half year versus just first quarter. Um otherwise there's some notes as far as the overall cash and
investment amounts on all funds that that amount or that report is attached also. with a few notes. Um, you know, namely I think the the water fund, the cash balance is a little higher because we still have some of the bond proceeds that we had from last fall that we're still spending. Um, probably saw there
was another payment to trout in the packet for um our wells. So, that project's moving along their two new wells and um yes, yeah, I'll probably stand for any questions, but otherwise um we're we're doing pretty well. And I guess the other thing I'll mention is that the uh audit is on track to be
presented our final year end 2024 numbers at the I think it's the May 19th uh city council meeting. Have you gotten a report for the from the final audit? I have not gotten a draft yet. I should be getting that soon. So, um, but, um, as far as I I don't think anything from the field when
the auditors were out here doing the field work should change too much as far as where that preliminary report I probably shown the council about a month ago or so on the year end premium numbers. The other thing I like about your reports too is seeing these uh fund
balances because you know we've talked about that and we need to make sure that we're in our the for the general fund especially because of the timing of our uh revenues. But um yeah, that looks good. 43% I think you said we're at
right now. So that's good. Yep. Okay. Questions, comments? All right. Um thank you very much. So, we will move on and we have uh one individual signed up. Um Mr. Lang, you have to come to the podium. Uh we'll
give you three minutes and we probably won't be making any decisions here tonight, but uh you do you do need to um state your name for the record and and address for the record. Paul Lang. Paul and Wendy Lang at 6700 Woodedge Road
just right over on the east side of Gailwoods Farm. and we've lived here 10 years now on a beautiful 6acre property and blessed to be there, but it's a nightmare on the road we live on. So,
uh, Wood Edge is just a mess. Um, my best friend Gary Peters in the roads division hears from me all the time. The poor guy. Um, but it's potholes, it's mud, it's leaves, it's no matter how hard they try to help us out with
grading and things, it's just a mess. Um, dust and the mud and everything, it's so a couple years ago, I got a petition in the neighborhood. Most of the people signed it and the only ones that didn't weren't there. I just didn't get to them. Um, so I think it was like
eight out of 10 that were in favor of it. Um, now there's two new neighbors. So, if I started it over and got the petition again, I'm glad to do it. But because I understand you kind of have to have neighbor approval to do this if we're going to get assessed. Maybe not.
I don't know. Well, you don't need neighbor approval, but um the project would be assessed. Um, and it can be 10 12 14,000. It's gravel currently. So those assessments are usually a little bit higher than if you're going from
batuminous to batuminous. Um so they can be somewhat significant and we'd have to see where it would fit into our our plan because the city would pick up a great port a bigger portion of that. Um I did talk to Gary about it. He's great. He's
just been the greatest guy. um we most likely wouldn't have it or wouldn't need uh sewer and water because everybody's got their own well, everybody's got their own septic and so that hopefully keeps the cost down some.
Um so it we're surrounded by pavement uh on North Saunders and West Edge and Wood Edge. So you guys probably know which road it is. Yep, I'm familiar with it. Big road. So, I'm thinking maybe the cost isn't
Well, um what we'd have to do is uh check with our um city engineer and maybe get some kind of highlevel estimate on what it would cost because you ever do a lowle
sheet sheet worst case we we would have to know um if it's even feasible or doable. So for 20 uh let's see 25 those ones have been decided on. And we've actually decided
on the roads for 26 and uh we do have a 10-year CIP plan and it's actually on our website and we would have to see if we can make any adjustments to that for 27. That would be the earliest possible and again it would have to fit into our
our budget as well. So, um, that's why I'm saying we'd have to get some kind of highlevel estimate as to what it would cost. And, um, they, yes, we would not be bringing sewer and water in. I would assume we wouldn't. Um, so, but we still
would have to know what it would cost for the for the road itself, right? Um, so in getting that estimate, is that something that could happen this year to get the estimate? Yeah, I'm sure it could. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then, um, as far as the assessment goes, I understand
it's spread out over 20 years or something for the people. So, if I, you know, can get the neighbors to nod and say yes. I mean, I don't know what, but maybe in that assessment, we'd find out how much it might be per year for Yeah. Yeah. We could, we could figure that out. Yeah.
Okay. But, but again, it wouldn't be before 27. So, it'd be like 27 or 2028. Well, gives us something to look forward to. There you go. There you go. Council meeting uh last I don't know month or something and I didn't know you
had to be a person of uh Oh, you had to sign it the whole damn Oh my gosh. full and I finally sat there. Can I Anyway, but Peter, I think it was told me that he's wanted his road darts. I thought, "Dang, he's not a city council. Can't get his road dart. We're screwed."
Anyway, I was in the same position and it took from the time we complained it was over two years later. So, it's everyone wants nice roads. Yeah. So, Mr. Lang, what we'll do is um I'll ask um I'll ask
staff to kind of give us some kind of estimate and then um we'll bring this back. It probably won't be until maybe this fall because I know our our work so we would have to bring it back to a work session and then and I know
May is pretty full. I don't know about June. Yeah, I if I may I think what what we'll do is we'll get some cost estimates and see where it can get worked in. Um we'll have to deviate a little bit from our assessment policy. I think gravel roads
currently say that it's 100% covered by residents, but I don't think historically that hasn't happened that way. Um, but yeah, I think I think the earliest that we could tack it on to a existing project, we were going to do um is it West Edge? We were going to we were going to or something. We were
going to do that this year that got kicked to 27 28. So likely the it would be good to do that those together. Yeah. you know, so we'll have to see when that gets um added. So, I would say I don't know if a work session if you guys want to talk about it at a work session, we
can. Otherwise, we'll just talk about it during the global CIP street discussion and if we want to put it in there, we can. I think it, you know, it'd be nice to give them some kind of an idea. So I think if we could bring it back
either again if we're too busy and I know we'd only have one meeting in July but if if it's August September kind of we can bring it back that should give staff enough time to put some sure and figures together and yeah I know Gary's got a spreadsheet with this street on
there and he knows right how much it's going to project to to cost so ballpark so um we'll be able to put that together pretty quickly. Okay, that's all I can ask. And then we'll um we'll let you um are you signed up or do you check our
website regularly? Well, I don't but um if this is something I could keep an eye on like once a month or something and just see going on on the We'll try and notify you, but sometimes it gets lost in the shuffle. So, I'm going to put the ownerous on you. So, just check. We meet
twice a month. It and I'm going to say it's not going to be before August. So, check our August. We have two meetings in August and two meetings in September. Check those. August might be the time where you'll have some numbers and an idea of what Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Okay. Well, I appreciate the
time. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Um so, next we have um a consent agenda. You wanted to pull one off. Number D. So, any other ones you want to remove?
Otherwise, not if not consent agenda items. um include approve our work session meeting minutes from April 7th, 2025. V is approve our city council regular meeting minutes from April 7th, 2025. And then approve a conditional
offer of employment for police officer Melissa Robbins. I'm so excited. Um and then uh E is approve our claims. Is there a motion to approve A, B, C, and E? So move. Thank you, Miss Revkin. Is
there a second? Second. Thank you, Mr. Vicky. All those in favor signify with I. I. All those opposed. Motion passes. 50. And Miss Ruffin, you had some questions. Yeah. So, I know I Jasper knows I was pulling this. Um, so at the
work session back in March, we talked about it and we were going to you were going to work with Sarah to find out why it would be a bid versus quotes. So, let's start there. Yep. Uh, oh, because it's above 175,000. Okay. So, for for this one, it was it would require a bid. Um, for the other one we were talking
about, the Milo system, that one was estimated at like 132. Uh, that one we're going to get quotes for. Okay. Um, is that so the whole just the equipment is 100 over 175,000 cuz I thought that was the equipment and then the contract for the usage and everything. So, it's
the equipment, the installation, um, all that plus a one-year service contract for all of the license stuff. So, um, that all totaled, I think it was 265. Okay. And then would they also they would install it? Yep. Train train um
and all of that. And would they service it? And I mean, if we would go with the the cloud solution, which was, I believe, the direction um that's all warrantied for 10 years. So, all of that hardware is 10 years, software gets automatically updated um for that
10-year period as well. Um, and then they, you know, USA Security would be the ones that provide the ongoing maintenance and support for that stuff if if that's who gets it. So, who came up with the specification list? Uh, so the USA security gave the list with the
part numbers and and all of that. So, why aren't we going out to bid with just we want x amount of cameras, x amount of this, x amount of that, and then allowing the vendors to bring back what they recommend? We can do that. Um, so I think we we talked briefly about, you
know, some other camera options like Motorola. We currently have like kind of a ver we have a verata infrastructure right now. So that's why we would replace them with vicata cameras u because that's what we went with in 2016 if we went with a whole different system. Um, might be more. It might be
more. Um, and I think we I thought we I thought we focused on the verata side uh versus going out for everybody. If we were we can do that. So, don't we can we can definitely do that and go out for just the whole system. Um, I would say if that's the case, then I would like to
get somebody that knows more about cameras and camera specifications to do the bidding stuff. If it's just us with the Vicata stuff that we know, I feel comfortable doing that. But if it's, you know, I don't know the difference between a Vicata camera and a Motorola camera versus something else. But I
thought we asked uh former Chief Falls. Um, I thought he said the verata was that Am I thinking something different? Do you Craig? Do you know? Is there Do you know anything about camera? I don't know. I I There seem to be something
that the police were more in tune with or something. They they they use these cameras probably the most out of anybody, right? Um, and that's the current system that we have and we went through it in 2016. But if we want to go try Hold on just wait just a minute.
Yeah. No, Madame Mayor. uh council members. Yeah, we're we're very familiar with the system we have. Um plus the system we have stores video where we're familiar downloading it and getting to attorneys and uh getting to the public for data requests. So um I'm I'm not
sure what Chief Falls might have been referred to. I can't remember either. I just Yeah, we're very familiar with the with the system and the ricotta system. Jasper and just then you can Yeah. Yeah. So, I I guess if if the direction is to go out and get like just an
all-encompassing estimate or go up for bids on the whole on a whole new system, we're kind of retrofitting our existing system, so that's why we selected Vicata, but if we want to go out and try to get a whole new something, um, we could definitely do that. I think it would be more expensive. I don't know
for sure, but I would say if we're going to do that, we should probably hire somebody to to facilitate the bidding process just because I'm I'm not a camera expert. Well, to that point, why aren't we asking vendors to come in and give us the recommendations like ADT, Brink, Stanley, any I don't know any
other companies like say like here's what we would recommend, here's what it would cost. Like why aren't we asking them to do that just like you would do as a homeowner who wants to put in something? Like I guess I don't understand why we're not having people come to us with their recommendations and then seeing if the Vicata one is the best one to go with or if there's a
better one out there or you know whatever might work. I just that's a lot of money to just here's the list that the vendor that we already use says that we need to spend all this money on. It's just I don't I just have a bad I just don't like it. I guess I I feel like we
need to get through more Yeah, there needs to be more options. There needs to be something like I it the product list looks just like a vicata like shopping list. Like I mean we we specify in here a Visio 44 in TV. Like why does it have to be a Visio? Like stuff like that. I was just like
this is silly. I mean that that's just my thought. So that's why I pulled it. I didn't I didn't get a good feeling and I had too many questions to leave it on. But sometimes what happens though if you have to go out for bids, you need to get apples to apples versus apples to oranges. So, no, hold on just a second.
I understand what you're saying and I'm not opposing that. I'm just saying um we'd have to find out if you go out for bids, then you do have to do specs because you have to get the same. So in other words, if you just say, you know,
so what you could do rather than going out for bids now, you could invite vendors to come in and tell you about their product then, but you would still, if it's going to be over 175,000, you still have to do a spec sheet. I could
be wrong and Sarah, you can weigh in. You'd still have to do a spec sheet so that they all bid the same thing. Otherwise, you're not sure, you know, otherwise we might be vi in violation of some kind of state code or whatever. But if I may, so the reason why we're going
with Vicata is because we're basically it's it's almost a maintenance project because we're replacing hardware that has is failing or has failed. So, it's not a new system. It's almost it almost falls into the sole source which means if it's a sole source like it's just
vicata and that we're replacing a vicata camera with a vicata camera you know we're saying we want a vicata camera it falls into this you know sole source and we can get a a I think documentation of sole source but if we want to look at other cameras um
you know we need to make sure it all integrates with our system our police are familiar with this that's why this is this is happening um And really, if we would have if we would have, you know, followed the maintenance plan kind of outlined in 2016, we would have likely just replace these cameras like
we replace servers and things like that. Um, but if we want to go out and and try to develop a bid package to look at these other vendors and other options, we can definitely do that. there there's likely going to be, you know, it'll have
to be facilitated by the police because they use it to make sure that they're comfortable with using it more, right? And that's I think what we were talking about before with Chief Falls. Um that's why I thought we went with Vicata, but um I understand what you're saying.
Um so it's kind of it's up to the council. I don't doesn't matter to me. I think Oh, I know what it was. I think there was a timing issue, too. Wasn't that what also an issue? There was I I thought from the work session there was some driver to try to get this done as
soon as we could. Um because they have met they're at end of life. If if let's say our our server fails right now, that means that we're renting a server from USA Security and then we're having them build a server or doing something
different to replace the current server we have and we're just kind of forced to do work with USA Security because it's kind of an emergency. They're required to have some cameras um for BCA or BCA recommended cameras. So, that was kind of the driver that I think said, "Oh, we
need to get this done." And I think somebody um maybe mentioned try to get it done by like April or May and it was like no this doesn't take it it'll take longer than that. That's why the we have a end date of October 31st. So but if you guys are okay and that was kind of explain the risk right if we kind of
wait and push this off to 2026. We have to just be okay with you know renting a a server and and kind of getting us to that finish line. um possibly right possibly under kind of an emergency guys um because they need it or we can kind
of proactively do it and replace it with the vicata system which is what the police want. Um so but we can do anything city council wants to do. So I would say if you want to go and get you know ADT Stanley USA security to say
look at all of our stuff here's where we need cameras have them all prepare quotes or you know bids quotes or bids. It'll have to be bids, but then we'd have to develop probably more robust specs, um, more robust bid plan, you know, bid documents for this, which I
would say then need I'm going to need to probably hire somebody like like we would have Allison do that stuff for a road project. So, if we want to go down that path, we can. I'm not saying we can't, but um apologize. I thought the direction was to proceed with the vicata
stuff and then, you know, bid it out. There are there are four. Oh, the vercato one is what we thought would be best. And the guy that was here and the other guy that was here, they also talked with the police and the police said that they were familiar with that and so that was kind of their
preference. Um, but council, what thoughts? I mean, Kathleen, I mean, it's it's a lot of money, and I get that the police are familiar with it, but just because this is what we have, it doesn't necessarily mean we have to automatically upgrade to the latest and greatest from the same company simply
because they're used to it. I mean, we that's a lot of money and you can't necessarily So, how do you want to do this? I don't I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying you want to I'll say the same thing I said last time. I want to see other options like other vendors coming and saying like if we get let's
say four vendors come here and they all say we recommend the vicata system. Okay. Well, then we'll do the VCA system and we'll But you just Okay. It it just seems like here's the option. So, you want them So, should they come to like a work session? Do you want two or three
to come to a work session and explain? I mean, what I don't know if that'll I don't know what I'm not sure how to proceed other than I mean, how did we pick USA in the first place? I there was a there was a it actually went out for bids, so I know that. So long ago um in
2016. Yeah. So there's there's some value and I'll I'll advocate for the police. There's there's actually quite a bit of value in what they think that they can use because they're the ones that are going to be using it. I know that somebody could come into city council chambers and say, "Oh, this is the greatest thing and they could be really good at presenting, but they
might not be able to use it." So there's some there's a lot of value to having the police figure out what they need for this. Um I get the the cost. I will mention there are four Vicata dealers in Minnesota and the idea was we reach out to them see if they
would provide bids. Yeah. Um if they get bids but they would all be this the Vcotta brand or whatever they would and you know the Vicata rep was here you so so I'm guessing they're going to get all similar. Couldn't you take take this bid that you would give to all the Vicata
people and give that same to let's say Motor or whatever other ones and say bid bid give us a bid with your products and tell us why we should use you. I mean you you could you so so my question also
I should I'm sorry another question is so if we did that and then let's say Motorola came back XYZ and they were cheaper because it's a bid and it's over 175 wouldn't you have to have to take
the lowest responsible bidder it it it gets if you you have to have a really robust specifications sheet when you bid this out. So, you need to tell them exactly what you want, which it gets into those camera specs, which I'm fine with, but I'm just saying there's
people out there that can help us do this really easily. Um, it'll just delay this by probably, I'd say, a couple months. Um, which we just have to be okay with. Okay. Um, just say, you know, or equivalent to and then whatever the current spec is, right? Yeah. I mean,
can't Okay, so like the first item says a Vicata CH52E outdoor multi-ensor camera blot. Can't you just take off the ricotta spec and say outdoor multi-ensor camera lens blah blah blah? You can. You have to get into like refresh rate, if there's a microphone, resolution, all
that stuff has to be kind of speced out for each one. I mean, even just call out for kata. I'm sure every ADP guy knows exactly what his equivalent camera is to that. Well, and the other question I have with the bid package in general is should we be bidding the product and the
install and then the service plan separately? So the way it's set up is it's for one year service and if we want it to do more and if there's a better we can we can always change that but for the first year it's always just one year. They probably want to be have that so that um
there might be tweaks and bugs that they have to work out and well and you pay per device generally um on the cloud. Um, so that's kind of set up and if we want to do it, we we they shared a spec sheet for the licenses. There's a little
bit of a break if you go out for three or five or 10 years. Um, I'd have Brian look at that to see if it's worth it or not. You know, to see if we want to go year to year. But, um, you know, I think I think the basis of this is, you know, police kind of run
this. They want this system, the Vicata system. They're familiar with it. There's value to that. We're kind of in a pickle because we didn't maintain it. Um, it's end of life. We're kind of playing with fire a little bit. So, there's a little urgency there. But, if we want to go out and go out and look at
ADP, Stanley, USA Security, I think there's one more major vendor. Um, we could do that. It just would take a little bit more time to develop the the bid package and we I'd say authorize me to get somebody on board to do that.
Would there be saving? Is there training savings by going for fkata versus switching or is that usually included in the install price? It's pretty small in the whole package. Um, but there's probably some familiarity with the software, but the software is going to
completely change too. Yeah, I was going to say it's kind of like system, right? I mean, it's the same company, but it's a whole new system. Everything is being replaced. Different software for sure. It's been learning. We have to go out make a little bit more of an effort to spend our money as wisely as possible.
Okay. So then you want to authorize um Jasper to find somebody to put together a bid package. Is that Well, do we have to do a bid package or can we reach out to the vendors and say come tell us what you think we should do. Yeah. Because they can educate us. We could do an RF
RFQ or an RFP process. Um Madame Mayor, who do you want them to present to? The city council or to the police? Madame Mayor. Well, so if the police need certain cameras or certain things to meet state guidelines, then they're
going to have to be involved in that decision as well. Madam Mayor, last bid. It from what I can gather staff got the quotes, provided a comparison to the council. Council made the decision and went with
the lowest vote. Great. That's what we did in 201. Okay. Well, let's um let's see if we can But the it was under the threshold back then. Back in the day, right? Yeah. Right. I think they're going to have to raise a
threshold. So, um we're not going to approve this tonight. So, um so you're going to have to be okay. Jasper has to bring somebody on board or or do some homework and figure out an RFP, a RFQ, whatever you want to Well, I guess I
need direction if we're going to do an RF, request for qualifications, request for proposals, or just bid. And I would say proposals and see what's there. request for Well, that'll that'll that'll als be okay with
the possibility that what we currently have might fail, right? Because if we go and do the RF RFQ process and then we have to go go do the bid process, that just adds more time. I thought, and maybe I read it wrong, that there was some urgency to
get this done. If that's no longer the case, then yeah, we can definitely do it that way. I just want to make sure you're aware of just the timeline. This probably pushes it to maybe a, you know, probably a end of project date of December. I'd say January one, early,
something like that is where we're at. So, um, which is perfectly fine. I mean, we can we can do that. I don't know what the I'm guessing it'll be probably. So, we have we have no idea what other vendors or what what some if you know
versus 265 is it really going to be a whole lot less? I mean, um, Oh, Sarah. Yeah. Can you hear me? Oh, sorry. That's my bad. Hold on. Hi, Sarah. Hi. Can you
hear me? Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. Sorry about that. I was trying to speak up earlier. Um, Madame Mayor, members of the council, this is a project that would be over 175,000. We are required to competitively bid it. That means, you know, we can have somebody write the specs and they can write the specs very
specifically if we want or we can have them write them more broadly. Um, but whatever comes back, you're you're stuck with the lowest bidder. So, keep that in mind. Yeah. Yeah. And then, um, I mean, there is a thing you can do something
called best value contracting, which actually kind of seems like what the road you're trying to head down here, but you do need to have a staff member trained in that. And I don't know if the city has anybody trained in best value contracting, but in that case, you can issue it's called a request for
proposals. And then you can actually pick the the system that's best for the city, and you don't have to pick the lowest um the lowest bid. You can actually look at the features and decide, well, this these people have the best system for us. So, I mean, that might be an option you might want to
look into. It's just a matter of if the city has anybody trained to to do best value contracting. I don't think we currently do, not that I'm aware of. Well, the main thing I think lowest responsible bid if someone comes in and bids 180 but has very
little experience in it, you can still take the 230 bit, you know, or there's some c, you know, provisions we do have that we don't have to get just stuck with someone if they're qualified or something or it's a pretty high threshold. I mean, I've litigated it a couple times, so I I wouldn't want to go
down the road of, oh, we didn't like the one camera they had, so they're not responsible. We're going to take the, you know, the second low bidder. Um, we don't want to go down that road. So, Sarah, I think what I'm hearing you say is we should go out for bid, but we need
to be real specific as to what we want. And if that's the case, then let's use this to go out for bid and and see what comes back. Otherwise, we might end up what what I'm concerned about is that we're
going to end up with something that we we that isn't going to fit correct. That that's so and I have no idea in terms of security systems and cameras. Um I I don't know anything about them. So if the police are saying
that they're um familiar with this system and they've been using it, um my guess would be that this system would be a good system would be a good system. I mean, but if you guys want to do it
differently, that's okay. But then be prepared like Sarah said. So it's a lot of money. Yeah, it is. It is. How come we didn't have to go out? Like so when it came here, this is for Sarah. Um when we had it brought to us at the
March work session, there was no mention about needing to go out to forbid then. So because nobody asked me. I think I said it had to go out. I think since it was above 175, we did say it
had to go out for bed. Well, no. I mean, you weren't asking for like the original work session notes weren't asking for approval to go up for bid. It was do you want to fund it this way or this way? Like at no point in the notes did it say we have to go out for bid no matter what. Well, I think we
talked about it if I if I recall. If we didn't, I mean, it maybe was assumed or whatever, but but we definitely have to go forbidden. I mean at this you guys we we we have to go out for bid I think.
Okay, that's been established on the you want to do you want to do this? I think you should have other vendors come in and pitch to us. Well, we don't we don't want them to pitch. We can't we can't we can't do that. We can't have vendors just come in and say, "Here's what I I
don't think we can. We can't do an RFQ, right? I think they can." Yeah. One one thing you could do is you could just say, "Hey, we're thinking of getting a new security system, have vendors come in and pitch their systems
to you and then after that decide, okay, you want to go with this type of system and then bid that out and then just specify that system similar to what you're doing with this picata. you know, specify that in the in the bid documents. So, that would give you some time to explore what the I guess the
different features are, but you'd have to probably pick one at the end. Otherwise, you'd be stuck with the lowest one and you might not like what the lowest one is, right? Yeah. So, like I guess that's what I'm saying like reach out to vendors say, "We're thinking about replacing our security system. What do you offer?" And I guess have them make a sales pitch of why we
should go with their product. Okay. So, we can do that. So, we can do that. But, correct me if I'm wrong. This isn't to replace the entire system. This is to integrate our old system and get new equipment on an updated server. So, it's
like integrating, right? I think that's part of it's almost like Yeah, it is. It's almost like a maintenance project that just never happened. Um, and that's where it gets a little touchy, but because it's so expensive because we've waited so long, we have to bid it. Um, so I think that's clear. Then that's the
challenge, right? Do we want to get into a different system or are we okay? I think we're okay with the system we have. So that's why the verata is being recommended. Why don't we do this? Why don't we see if we can find another um different manufacturer, whatever rep,
let's just say repping a different one, have them come in and present and if they can give us a highlevel idea as to what it would cost. I mean, not a full bid, just say something like this, what you're looking at. um it's going to be, you know, 200 or something. Then we
could decide if we want to bid it how we're going to go out and bid it. Would that you know what I'm saying? Then we can decide, okay, we're going to bid it out this way or we're going to bid it out that way. But I what I'm a little leerary about is having three or four
come in and having to go through that because now we're talking three or four months go by before we can even put it out for bid. Now we're looking at, you know, probably March of next year before we can get it installed. You know, if we have to wait another two or three or
four months before we can put this out for bid, that's my that's a concern. Yeah. And that that is valid. I mean, and we can do it. Um, I still think to to to tell like ADT or Stanley what we
actually need. Um, there's like some technical stuff that's been done by USA Security because they obviously know our system because they they currently maintain it. Um, and they're supporting it. I'm not sure if that's okay to give to ADT or Stanley or if they want to do
their own thing or if there needs to be a third party involved with that because there's things that that a that USA Security have that, you know, they maybe know some some things about that they're not including in in some of their stuff they give us because they they're already supporting the system. They
don't need to know certain things. But if they're just looking at a piece of paper, Stanley, you know, they might need more a more robust kind of description of what what they're actually going to give us a number for if it's going to be accurate. So, how many companies are what are we talking about? Three or four. Three or four. Can
you bring two of them in um to talk to us to tell us what they would do? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, they can just do the same sales pitch the USA security guy did. Like, here's what we would recommend. Mhm. I I think so. I think the the piece that
might be missing from that high level discussion is a cost. And if that's really important, it sounds like that's important to the group is the actual cost of what this other system might might be. I don't know if if that'll give the group enough information if you don't know that number, which I don't
know if they would wouldn't they so they wouldn't be able to if you if you invited them in before the work session and talked to them and they kind of looked at everything and they could put together some kind of presentation and say for for this this is what we're
looking at. This is what we would recommend and we're looking approximately at this number. And then we knowing that because it's going to be more than the 175, it would still have to go out for bid. I think that
definitely they could re work with staff. I think it'll be probably a couple days of staff time to with each vendor. I mean, we spent I think a couple days with with Chris and he knows the system just to get this dialed in. Well, that's where that's where I think there's some benefit to just saying here
are the specs and them and then when they have questions then they'll give us an actual number if that's that's specs maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I mean you can give them these specs. Um there they might not know where this you know where the south water tower is or you know oh the
treatment plant. So you got to you got to build in some maps. You got to build in those types of things so they can they know where these are. Some of these areas don't have network connections, so we need to have WiFi modems there. So, um I don't know. I if
if you just want to look at like what a system can offer, sure, they can come in. But if you want to actually get a number that's associated with that system, then you got to at least have an idea of what you're going to ask for, you know? Yeah, I get it. So, which I'm all we can do either either one, but I
think if I think there's more value if we develop specs, have ADT, Stanley, USA Security look at it, and then um give us an actual number like kind of go off for bids. How long would it take to do a um specs and do you know what the cost
would be? I'm I don't I don't know exactly. I'm guessing probably in that $5,000 range, you know, five to five to 10. I'll put that out there. I don't know. Um, but just to do a spec sheet. Yeah. Why why would that cost so much to do a spec sheet? Well, it it'll I mean
be pretty robust spec sheet, bid documents, all that. Um, I don't know. That's just my guess. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm shooting high. I don't know. But I don't want to say 500 bucks and it comes in at No, it's it's going to be more than that. Um, and I don't even know who to ask. So that there's that
piece, too. So, do we get a I don't know, an engineer? I I'm not sure. But I'm sure Chris um the USA security guy that we know that we work with right now might have somebody or suggestions. So
um Okay. Okay. So it sounds like we want to I I mean if I'm reading the room I think there's some value in knowing the number along with yeah the system because if you you just have the system like everything is going to look nice and new and shiny and great. Um, but we
don't know if it's a half a million dollar system or a quarter million dollar system or, you know, we just don't know that. And, you know, you might really like this one system that doesn't have a number associated with it, but it's out of our price range. So, so we've talked about this enough that
I'm totally confused. So the original this proposal uh that we were going to vote on why isn't that going out for bid just because it's repair of the system? Is that the It is going out for bid. So So what's it could go out for bid? That's what we're
recommending. It goes out for bid, but it's bidding out the Vcata system. Just just the VCA system. There's four vendors that'll offer other hardware and software solutions. So they would bid against each other. They would. Yep. So if we want to get those
other vendors involved, we definitely if you want So what we have in the packet right now would be a a bid packet, if you will, that would go to the Vicata the companies that sell Vicata and install them. Now, if you want to do um
a a broader one, then we have to hire somebody to put together a bid package with the items that we need or want or need. They would have to know all of they would have to know where everything has to go because this includes the
water towers, the treatment plants, the public um the police department, and all of that. And then they'd have to put this package together and then put it out to bid and and it would specify what I again I'm not I'm not an engineer but
can't we just have them bid and see what it looks like you know see if they really are going to compete against each other. Well that's what Sarah is telling us and and she's correct. She's right. So when you go when it's more than 175,000 it has to be apples to apples.
So, in other words, you have to put together a bid package so that when people bid it, they're bidding the same the same thing. They might bid a different um they might bid a Motorola um camera with um pixels or whatever.
You know what I'm saying? With 100 pixels, whatever it is, but it's going to be comparable to the one that Vakata is going to do. So, but if not, they could come in and they could bid a camera that's half of what this camera is. But didn't we say we could take the
best value option or whatever that Well, um, it's really hard to say a bidder is not responsible. So, that threshold is very, very high. They have to almost be, you know, negligent. You might have to have some history with them, I think. So, it's very hard to say, oh, you know,
you're not a responsible bidder if we don't have good evidence of that, which we don't have a lot of experience with camera systems. So, personally, like I think it would be hard for us to say, ADT, you're not a responsible bidder, right? Because they're they're responsible. They're a responsible company. This is what we're going to do.
I'm going to ask staff, no, I'm going to ask staff to come back and tell us what it's going to cost to hire somebody to put together a bid package. Okay? They're going to bring it back at our next work session in May. They're going to say, "Here's what it's going to cost to put together a bid package." And then
um then we can decide is it worth the 5,000 or 10,000 or 20 whatever it's going to cost. And then um maybe in the meantime we can kind of mle a few other things over and you can bring back. So let's do that in um at a May work session. Bring back and let us know what
it would cost to put a bid package together. Okay. Can Sorry. Can we ask other vendors to come in and just present what they think we would need? We definitely can. Do you expect to get
a estimate? I guess that's the question. I think Josh was saying to get a number, they need spec. Right. Right. But if they come in and, you know, they look around or whatever and they're like, "Okay, well, you need this, you need this." Like, you know, these people do this for a living. They're salesmen.
They should be able to give you a rough estimate of what it would cost to do something. I mean, I would assume not really because we're also we have numerous locations. That's the other glitch cuz we have, you know, three water towers and two treatment plants
and um and I don't know what else they Right. But I mean like other cities do this. I mean it's it's one of See what you can find. What is if you can find out if if um yeah,
find out if who else could come at that meeting cuz I don't want to delay it too long. I really don't. I I think we need it sooner than later. And so see if Stanley or USA or whatever if they want to come. Yeah. Well, we heard from USA security.
I don't know if you want that. I mean, you can have them come back in. That was the Chris Daniels. That's who we currently have supporting it. But um yeah, I'll look. I just did a quick Google and you know Stanley ADT there's a couple other ones Ram Romulus I don't know we'll I'll reach out to a bunch see
if we can get them to to show up and just give us a high level um okay between now and then though I'm not sure you know I'm not sure what Craig's schedule is or it might have to be the second meeting in May or the first Yeah. I don't want to have to walk around with Craig. They're gonna have to walk around
with Gary or uh Randy to just see what's go out there. Okay. Okay, that's what we're going to do. All right. Um, so then we'll move on to business items and that is um the
opposition to HF 4124 and SF4689. That's a homeowners association reform bills. And Jesper, yeah, I can give a brief overview on this. These are a couple bills. I think they were mentioned a little bit during the chicken discussion about how the the
Minnesota legislature has some things in the mix to potentially either remove some of the well from on the HO HOA CIC common interest community um side. They want to remove some of the ability to to charge their residents or their people
in their homeowners association certain amounts of money and limit what they can actually have control over. Um, on the city side, the big part is that they don't want to um they want to limit our ability or remove our ability to make people have an HOA. So, you know, that's
a big part of what we do. If there's a a planned unit development and there's, you know, storm water ponds, things like that that need to get maintained by the group. That's why the HOAs, it's one of one of the reasons why. The other are the common areas, some of the parks, some of the, you know, monument locations, those all have to be
maintained by the HOAs. So this bill or these bills, their companion bills um are are going through through the through the Senate and the House. They either remove that or are very limited on the HOA CIC side. So what this resolution does is say that we do not
agree with that and we want to let our legislators know. Um, similar to the the housing bill resolution we passed, the last one, if if approved, we would send this to the League of Minnesota Cities um main um lobbyist, Daniel Lightoot. He
would use this and say, "Hey, I got I got a city that doesn't want this." So, um there there's some recent developments. Um some of the language has been struck regarding cities, but still that can always be brought back at a certain time. So, so passing something
something like this would, you know, solidify our position on it and we can share that. So, I'll entertain any questions. I think we would have again it's just local control over local issues, you know, so I don't think we have to
discuss it for an hour. So, go ahead, send the letter. Well, we we should vote on it. All right. All right. Yeah. So, um would you like to pass resolution um number 43-25 in opposition of the House and the
Senate um homeowners association reform bills? So moved. Thank you, Mr. Thank you, Miss Lacy. All right, any further questions? All those in favor signify with I. I. All those opposed. Motion passes 50.
Now, staff reports. We have um next Monday we have a planning commission meeting. You were Miss Lacy, you were going to be there. Uh yes, I am. I'm going to be No one else can be there. We do parks meeting as well. And we have a parks meeting in
May. It would they rescheduled it for 6 p.m. on the same day. On the same day. Okay. Do Do you want to go to both? Oh, I'd love to. Okay. So, Miss Laser will be at both the parks commission at 6 and at the
planning, planning commission at 7. And then, um Okay. Any I don't have anything. Okay. Then, uh just a reminder, we have the state of the city address on the 29th at Burl Oaks starting at
5:30. 5:30. 5:30. There'll be light refreshments and there will be a cash bar. Um I always say that you have the uh recycling cleanup day will be before our next council meeting or May 3rd. May 3rd, right? And then also coming up then
after that would be May 17th. Trista Days Trista Days. And then we are also um uh going to have the bus tour again. So if you would like to participate, please sign up and let Ally know. Is registration for the bus tour open? I
opened it to people who signed up last year. Okay. Cancel. That's right. Okay. Wonderful. All right. And it's always a lot of fun. You know, we have fun here. So, we'll have fun on the bus tour. Um, so, uh, that's that's all. And
we've been attending the fire meetings and, um, let's see what else. I know there were a lot of meetings. Um, but I have I I have a little bit of a report. Yes. So, um again, I got to hear um
Chief Farnia speak at the WCC meeting and he was telling us that they, you know, they've got these um raised cameras that very clearly show people driving with their knees watching, you know, television or watching their
phones that the the the occurrence of um accidents because of distracted I mean it's skyrocketed and um they can very clearly see you know people saying I wasn't holding my phone they can see you clearly holding your phone and it's not
uh you know it can be um it can be in a little they actually yeah but they can tell it can digitally see if your eyes are down I mean it's it's really high tech and so
um you know it made an impact on me like I mean I really now I put my phone in my back seat because it's tempting you know to answer that call or to whatever. So really he said I was surprised to hear the chief of oro say
um you know be careful who you vote for because they people will have multiple um offenses and they're just let you know there's no there's no punishment. Wow. So, we really want to be tough on
distracted driving because it kills people. Yeah, it does. More so now than impaired driving. And I think on Highway 7 there's this big Yes, that's it. Yes. And that's that's a camera and that's I
think part of the Highway 7 uh safety um thing. So, do you want to say anything about that? Um yeah, there's uh there's actually an enforcement action that'll be coming up in the next week, I believe, where a lot of uh our partnership agencies will be on Highway
7. So, yep, that uh the device is near South Lake, and it can definitely we would call plain view in law enforcement. It's not, you know, it's not looking for anything other than distractive driving. Um but yes, and
that uh the the video would go to officers nearby who then see it on their phone and uh then they make the traffic stop. Yep. Yep. And I' I've seen people look at their phone while they're But I mean it's it's amazing. I've seen people and then the law has been the law
for a number of years that you can't be on your phone while you're driving and yet I see people frequently like you know it's like no no do not be on your phone when you're driving. Yeah. Especially Oh and and kids I I just
Yeah. Anyhow. Yeah. So anyway, that's that. Anything? Uh well, I just found out uh that uh the second uh alum treatment for the whale tail is is postponed until 2026. Okay. Did well. It
went really well. Uh the first one they were really excited about that. But there's only one company in the country that does that. Oh, no. looked up. So, um but Brian from Three Rivers said that actually he thought it would probably
extend the life of the uh treatment treatment and um actually the Henipin counties or they're thinking of taking it off the state is thinking of taking it off the impaired list probably in a couple years. They have to you know get some data on it and it may even uh be
the sec you know there are two parts to mail. uh it flows the treatments in one that then flows into the other and that one may uh qualify as to take off the list too. Oh, okay. That'd be huge. So, it would pretty excited. Um and then
Jasper did send out letters to people around Oxoke Lake to start a citizen uh kind of monitoring that lake. Nobody's been monitoring it and so it's just kind of a start to maybe treating it, you know,
years in the future. They haven't gotten any response. Yeah, I know. They have to go door to door on that. Oh, no. Anyway, okay. On the uh watershed district. Thank you. We have a cheat sheet on what they'd have to do. It's not much. Yeah.
Yeah, I do. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I can send that to you. I can I'll I I'll send you the letter that went out to the residents. Yeah, that would be good. Just copy us. Send it to the Yeah, I don't. But I I go down
that road. My sister-in-law lives on the end. I visit her quite often and she I could just go up the driveway. Can I do that? And say, "Hey, would you consider doing this?" There's only a few houses that are kind of right on the water. Right. Right. And you need a boat and you need a canoe or something. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Any anything else? Otherwise, they want chickens. Do you want chickens on a property here? All right. With that, we are done with our business items. Is there a motion to
adjurnn? Well, second. Miss Revkin made that motion and Miss Lacy seconded that. We're having so much fun. All those in favor signify with I. I. All those opposed. Motion passes 50. Thank you.
And we will see you in in May on the 29th, right? You guys are adorable. You're adorable. And I'll see you tomorrow morning. What are we doing tomorrow? When am I going to this thing? See you tomorrow
morning. 9:00. When is that planning? Is it next Monday? Yes, it's Monday.