##VIDEO ID:3DnThb66--c## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e welcome to the township Monro zoning board meeting of adjustments call to order please stand and salute the flag pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all announcement of the Sunshine Law in accordance with the open public meeting act it is hereby announced and shall be entered into the minutes of this meeting that adequate notice of this provided by the following posted on the bulletin board of the office of the Township Clerk posted on the bulletin boards within the municipal complex printed in the home News Tribune cranberry press on December 27 2024 posted on the Monroe Township website and sent have requested personal notice Madam Secretary roll call please M Carrie present Mr Lup Mr Masters here Mr busman here M kator Mr KY here Mr jaffy here Mr Cole here Mr jice here president can we have a nomination for chairman i' like to make a nomination like to nominate Vincent ma for chairman I'll second that are there any other Nom can I have a motion to close nominations motion to close second Miss Carrie yes Mr Masters yes Mr busman yes Mr tany yes Mr jaffy yes Mr Cole yes Mr jice yes chman Lata yes okay thank you everyone okay uh board members can I have a motion for a vice chair motion like to we need to not we to throw name not me that was that was quick as I did last time I'd like to nominate Kelly Cary for the vice chairman okay do I have a second second second okay are there any other nominations seeing there's none I like to close the nominations can I have a motion can I have a motion to close the nominations make motion second all in favor I roll call sorry roll call it was all in no it was all in favor and closing okay Miss Carrie yes thank you Mr Master Mr bman yes Mr KY yes Mr jaffy yes Mr J yes chairman L yes welcome aboard okay board members can I have a motion to for nomination for board attorney make a nomination for Peter bolio do I have a second I'll second are there any other nominations close nominations do I second roll call M Kyrie yes M Masters Mr yes Mr busman yes Mr tany yes Mr jaffy yes Mr Cole yes Mr Janice yes yes chairman L yes thank you all very much is can I have a nomination of engineer board engineer yes I nominate mark rasmo up Senate state do I have a second I'll second are there any other nominations motion to close Mo nomination second roll call please miss Carrie yes Mr busman yes Mr KY yes Mr jaffy yes Mr Cole yes Mr yes chairman L yes thank you okay board members I need a nomination for board planner I move Samy mik do I have a second are there any other nominations for board planner do I have a motion to close the nominations make motion motion second roll call please miss Carrie yes Mr Master yes Mr busman yes Mr tany yes Mr Daffy yes Cole yes yes chairman L yes members do we have a nomination for board secretary I'd like to make a nomination Laura what is this Zusi there a second second are there any other nominations motion to close nominations any second on the motion to close Madam Secretary roll call please miss car yes Mr Master yes Mr K yes Mr jaffy yes Mr Cole yes Mr yes chman L yes thank you okay board members we have uh the rules and regulations in front of you do I have approval to put them on the on the record motion to approve the rules and regulations second all in favor I have it okay board members we have the dates posted before you as well for the year for our meetings that's on the table do we have a motion to move forward motion to approve in all in favor I thank you board memb okay board members who we here we have minutes of the regular meeting held December 3rd 2024 do we have a motion to approve motion to approve motion to approve second second all in favor I I I thank you thank you board members okay first application of the Year 2025 ba-52 53-24 tjs Venture LLC good evening Mr chairman and members of the board uh congratulations on all the new appointments Walter Toto on behalf of the applicant tjs Ventures LLC uh the property in question is 164 Applegarth Road we were back before you guys in December at which point the board took jurisdiction mics are much taller they grew the last time I was here the board you off for one second got one more housekeeping thing I need to do Peter swear in the board's planner and engineer for their testimony so if you both raise your right hand you the testimony you provide for cter year 2025 will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do I do super thanks guys thank you very much okay just wanted to reiterate that the board prediction in December and agreed to carry the matter without further notice to tonight's hearing and that is correct Mr chair okay we are seeking use variant relief this is a non-conforming use it's essentially a rehab um of a use that had some historical uses Industrial in nature uh some warehousing in so what's proposed here uh is about a 7,300 ft Warehouse with about 1,400 sare ft of office space uh with other improvements of the property including Landscaping parking uh Etc uh when we were here in December the board had a number of comments uh the board professionals did as well all of that we went back to the drawing board to some extent revised our site plan uh Revis the architectural rendering uh to soften the look because we are asking for a height variance of just under 3 feet um so tonight I've got and we're ready to address the reports from Mr Azam moitz and Miss API they have revised reports you know 10 days old and tonight I have Sharie Ali our engineer we have Mark remza our plan planner Danny nagpal who was the principal of tjs Ventures testified at length in December about operations he is here also I'm not going to bring him up uh for forward testimony direct testimony but he's available without further Ado uh I'd call shareif uh Ali to testify as to the revisions the engineering revisions um Etc and if I could swear you in quickly Mr Ali [Music] you could raise your right hand you to where the testimony provide is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you hey Mr chairman Mr Alie is still qualified from December when he testified we'll accept his credentials thank you Sharie if you would the revisions uh since we were here on December 3rd 2024 yes uh so um you the mic M we revise our uh color exhibit map to show some of the uh revisions and just another piece of housekeeping Mr Toto I believe that Mr Masters and Mr busman both did review the transcript and are capable of participating in the hearing this evening no objection sure thank you so that's a a a Revis exhibits should be labeling that yeah I think we had gotten up to what I think we went to A2 last time memory serves me correctly so this will be A3 run through quickly yeah yep so um one of the items that we uh discussed and with your recommendation and the input for the professionals uh we added the uh BM in front of the uh it's about 3 ft High that's all we can do since the count is taking a big chunk out of the RightWay and the existing building and the sidewalk is already very close to the RightWay so we added that l burm that's number one uh we were asked the uh Pavements that are north of the building that is been removed and that took down the in previous coverage uh from 36.7 to about 33.5 so that's a uh a good Improvement there s in previous coverage and the green we were asked also since we had have uh three uh residential uh units or single family to the South we were asked to uh to stop the glare from the Cars so we added a 4T High uh vinyl fence that recommendation uh that was asked us uh to do we also uh we were asked to add one more light to the north uh wall that is been added to the plan uh we're asked to uh the whole entire parking lot to be paved and that's what we ask uh the excess material uh uh pavement and impervious coverage around the dumpsters uh is removed uh clarify the attic square footage uh between the engineering and the uh site plan uh between the architectural and the site it's about 1577 ft on the first floor and they add is the same 1,577 square ft and the attic is storage only Sharie correct that is correct as per testimony last night so what El we did B the parking law added the light second floor building oh the building height so we went add there with the contractor and the architect and the crew again and we measured the building height and as per ordinance definition actually that uh the building height um um and the height now is 37.8 uh my testimony based on my fuel crew when they did it the first time around with 38.2 so it's about 8/10 that uh went down uh so that's pretty much it as far as the we were asked to do on a site plan and oh one more thing also the uh we were as clarification on the um the wall sign that is shown on the architectural and it's about 15 Square ft and that's by the front door sh in both the reports both Ma and Mark and Mark's report oh I'm sorry in both of the professional reports the revised reports there's a comment about access to the trash enclosure the trash truck will back up to the trash enclosure is that yeah uh front loader uh the trash uh the container will be pulled out the truck will pick it up there is an area to turn around that's the area the strip area so and that's been demonstrated by autoturn on the site plan and Sh also uh with regard to W Mo calls out uh the need for a storm water management plan I know we're reducing the impervious coverage is it your testimony that that would alleviate the need for a storm water management plan right with the removal and recommendation by Mr rosimo to remove the access gravel to the north and also the dumpsters that reduce the impervious coverage on site and the overall we used to have an increase from the existing condition now we have uh a reduction so with that said we have about close to 1,000 s ft of reduction of imp previous coverage and that will reduce runoff as far as the site runoff for uh the two and the 10 and the 100e storm and that's the reason we asking for a waiver on and there's a waiver also a waiver request for um from having to submit the environmental impact statement correct yes and uh I I believe we put a testimony on that that most of most of uh the grass area as well as the green will not be disturbed as a matter of fact we are improving the situation by removing some of previous coverage so we're not getting into the wetlands area or the buffer or uh the uh the fhc zone and of the testimony from December and tonight are we able to comply with both Miss ap's report and Mr Raimo's report absolutely okay Mr chairman nothing further for Mr Ali okay you have any Witnesses you're going to bring forward Mr please do so if you could grab that microphone just so we can hear you super duper do you swear that any testimony provides truth all truth nothing with truth I do and if you could state your name spell your last name and give us your address for the record please yes um Mark a Rema R MSA um address 10 duberry Court Mount Laurel New Jersey we'll accept those credentials please continue thank you Mr chairman uh Mark obviously a testif at length with regard to planning testimony in December yep uh can you talk about the changes um that we've made to the building to the facade uh and add any planning testimony that you see fit as well so so this is a new new uh I think we A4 Peter that's A4 yeah we'll call that A4 is that this was submitted I you say this was submitted wasn't it U Mr it was yes yes so we don't need to mark it if no fair enough yep understood but I appreciate it so you're referring to the four page architectural plan set yes super and and I'm just going to touch briefly on it because um at the last hearing uh there was some discussion about um the facade appearance and actually um we got some actually very good uh guidance from from Kelly uh in terms of uh bringing back the um Windows uh because the uh current building as it's constructed does not uh on the second floor where the attic is and that lends itself more to that residential nature and also because of the height variance that we have um we also felt and I I produced some sketches but but it was hard to visualize at the last meeting so I'm glad the architect added them these drawings you'll see the uh higher portion the back portion of the um uh of the building now has Windows added on so it lightens up that facade instead of having a straight solid facade uh we now have the fenestration of of Windows uh to that and I just speak to that because um uh that would further my my planning testimony about uh why it would be uh suitable this building would be suitable uh in this area uh so the idea was to um uh light lighten the facade and add those windows back so that's really the the wanted to talk about and as far as uh Miss ap's report Mark we can agree with all of the conditions there absolutely okay Mr chairman nothing further and I have no further Witnesses okay we're going to start off with M thank you uh thank you Mr chairman uh Mr Toto thank you for uh bringing up and I just want to make it you're referring to our review letter January 21st 2025 it should be oh yes correct yep got it sorry and um that's the uh that's the memo you are referring to as to being able to with all right um quick notes um I know discussion was so just making sure the attic is only above the office area right in the revised architectural the section doesn't show an attic or it is but correct okay um in terms of um um the I think one question that was raised is there is standing sign it's only the wall sign that's being proposed correct okay and uh you will be able to show us the HVAC equipment the revised drawings still don't show that yes Meck I know it's all internal it's within the office space it's not external there's no nothing external no oh won't won't it need it that's it have to be it it can be in the Attic portion if if if there is any if there's any external it will be added to the plan okay all right um the the one last question I have is we did have and I want to make it on record is um although You' provided the vinyl fencing one of the comment in the memo was to add some more Greenery around it I want to make sure you're still agreeable to that yes absolutely okay thank you thanks thanks Mr chairman mock all right thank you Mr chairman excuse my voice um my my letter is dated January 22nd 2025 yes correct just a couple of points U environmental impact statement waiver I'd recommend the waiver subject to conservation easement being provided on the wetlands and any flood planes as well as going before the environmental commission that's fine absolutely um are you still proposing concrete wheel stops in curbing yes Mark we are yes and are they uh what's the location of them are they on the perimeter or are they internal Sharie can you point those out please concrete curb stops yes the on the uh perimeter uh the outside basically okay um with regard to curbing the parking lot you're looking for a waiver to curb the correct okay uh I don't have a I don't take any exception to that with regard to storm water management I want to be clear it's not a waiver of the storm water management don't I don't recommend that um however the um uh you're not considered a major development under the new storm water EGS based on the reduction in the impervious coverage but there is still some storm water management I'd like to see addressed as far as the runoff from the parking lot maybe a rain Garden or or something to that effect under the the best management practices sure we could do that and just for the record uh we we also have free hole Soil District certification as well as the on R Canal certification because they go together with the storm water but despite that we can provide what what is ask absolutely again I wanted to be clear it's not a waiver of the storm water management plan um Mr chairman they they've agreed to the other comments in my review letter um so I have nothing else thank you any board members have any questions please just to clear up a few things I wrote up at the last meeting the original uh what I thought was the original footprint was the small building that was up front it turned out I guess after you started digging that you found that the foundation went back further is that how that worked that's my understanding shareif and I think the our our contractor had testified to that but we want to get confirmation yeah the the footprint on the ground is still the same nothing got expanded it's just a same footprint so the the the foundation that you found that was there this building is exactly the same footprint as that Foundation was that's my recollection from what the the contractor said and what it shows on the survey itself it's pretty much identical right on top of each other I thought he actually reduced it I think that as a matter of fact I point that out that was a pump out to the north that's being removed yes so it's actually a reduction I guess the pump p was more like a utility room that was not necessary right okay and regarding the height I'm still curious about something at what point did you realize that the height of the building was greater than than what what we allow no it's a fair question because and again I didn't want to belor this point go ahead you want to go well the height was pointed out uh at the tech meeting uh so at the TRC meeting was pointed out to us on the archit exal it shows that exceed that 35 ft so we confirmed that with the field crew so the field crew went out there and one of the method that he use is a reflector and shoots a height pretty quick the second time I ran they went out there and actually did it was a level oldfashioned way so it's more more accuracy with that that also being confirmed with the steel manufacturer and the um the elevation from that so that's But to answer your question yes that was discovered at the after the application was made to Monro deem complete I believe and at the TRC meeting was pointed out by the professional your professionals it may have been the case where it was pointed out by the either the building department or the zoning department but I know some something was a miss someone missed something whether it was my architect the zoning office the building department but it was a Confluence of events I'm not pointing fingers but something went down that was not right led to the construction and led to us led to that being flagged as a non-conformity and led to us making the application so I think it was actually before the TRC but uh and Mr nagpal is not someone who would uh cavalierly just thumb his nose at the township I think it was an honest mistake and I don't think it was only his mistake but it's led us here asking for uh your approval okay well you can understand my reason for asking of course yes it was a little concerned that with all you you guys are pretty smart people you had to know at some point that you were exceeding the limits yeah and I think I think it happened even before the I think it triggered the need for the appc and come to this board for Relief as opposed to getting into some internal fight about what plans were approved or weren't approved or what have you so again that let us here okay thank you Mr busman so I I wasn't here at last month's meeting but I went through everything and I see where the 3-foot incident is quite a thorn in people's back but I understand the sequence and to why it happened uh however isn't the was the was the construction actually begun before permits were issued or were permits issued it's the sequence of events that gets me confused sure all right because like you said and in my mind I don't think anybody would deliberately go ahead and make a building different than what was originally planned and where the problem lies may be immaterial but going through a process something broke down along the way and that needs to be considered when approving or disapproving this application so I want everyone to understand that fault may be placed but it doesn't matter where the fault lies it's happened so therefore if I could just understand the sequence as to what happened like it gets approved it goes to Department a they approve it then it goes to B and B gives your permit and then B goes back to the contractor and then they start construction and then after it's after it's constructed or partially constructed then the problem shows up is that how it happened that's exactly how it happened because they didn't do construction prior to permitting that's for sure then fine fine thank you for that clarification of course any other questions from any board members Mr totto I'll direct my question to Mr Remer yeah um obviously we're here for a use variance correct yes so the the second floor height in the office area if this applicant owner at the time decides to move out the use Varan stays with the property correct that is correct so if someone else comes in and that second floor is utiliz for office do we meet the parking requirements at this point uh no and that and that person would have to come back before you for a new use variant yeah we're agreeing to restrict it to uh storage only not off's going to be out on the street monitoring if he decides to sell tomorrow and sell to you know to someone else the township has a process you have a zoning permit process and that that zoning permit has to have the information about how the building is going to be used the use of the the the building and that's when it gets caught so if if it comes in and that applicant uh with the zoning permit uh does not say in his permit that he's not going to use the top floor he can't use it if he says he's going to use the the two floors now that triggers the uh use variance because there's going to be a resolution of approval that says how that property can be used and so being the second floor would not be inhabitable and only for storage then it would not it would not trigger more parking but if indeed if there was to be use of the second floor it would trigger the parking requirement uh standard and then uh you would be short and they would have to come back to you to demonstrate that and we could record a deed restriction as well Mr chairman to reflect that I'm not questioning any of that but Mark you've been you've been up at this board on our behalf many times and we had a particular tree company that also had all the bells and whistles attached to it not pertaining to but they still conducted business until how far did we have to go before we had to stop something so all these bells and whistles are nice but we firsthand seen it together that there are many businesses that continue doing business until you know the axe dropped Vinnie why do we want to put ourselves in that position well actually you're you're you're not because this application is very specific for this specific use and how the property is going to be used it it it's not this use is not anticipating it being used on the second floor not his use that's correct but the use belongs to the property so future use the answer could be yes absolutely and and uh if if they're not coming back with the a storage type use in the back and and the type of use in the front that too will trigger the a used variance because this is in a residential Zone it's been a light industrial building for for as long as I can remember for for almost 50 years and uh that's one of the reasons why you they came before you because there was a change in the type of use of that property and now um this is the use that's before you so uh I understand the frustration but if the zoning permit process works the way it's supposed to then then that would be uh uh triggered at that point and that's that's why zoning permit processes in place okay so the next question I guess I would ask Mark if they raise the ceiling on the first floor where that second floor that they're using for storage will now become inhabitable for future reference for an office area so we don't need to figure out who's moving in down the road is that a viable option or what what how does that work what would constitute not an official second floor Mr chairman I think that's a question for the applicant if they can do that well what they can do instead of raising the floor um no the ceiling the ceiling you would lower the ceiling in the attican the roof the roof ceiling no the the interior ceiling would be lowered so it goes below what the what the building code uh designates as inhabitable space and you still be able to use it for storage at that point yeah yeah you would you would still be able to use so so you wouldn't raise the the bottom of the SEC the floor because uh there there's a stairwell and and and that's all it's already place so so you would hold the attic floor and you would just take the ceiling and just drop it down I think it's below 6 and2 ft the second floor just a a suspended drop ceiling or is it a hard ceiling no I think you would have to construct a hard ceiling okay yeah you you would come in and and and frame it okay and that would that would definitely is that is that something your would be willing to agree to I believe so yes Mr chairman yes yes yes yes that's a yes okay any other board members have any questions Mr chairman I think like the office doesn't show a staircase it does it does it does where is it it's in the front of the building you'll see the staircase that goes up it's not a pull downstairs there's actually set sh if you're going to speak please use the microphone I don't see it yeah would you bring it up sh here it is well if you put it up on the board the camera should be able to sry okay yeah she A3 sheet sheet A3 I'm G to I'm going to run my finger over where the stairwell is right here that takes you to the second floor okay so once again just to put on the record you're okay with lowering the ceiling below the 6 and 1 12T threshold which now makes it uninhabitable for an office yes Mr but it still can be used as storage that's that's that's agreeable to the applicant any other board members have any questions seeing there's none I'm going to open this application to the public anyone from the public wishing to be heard on this application please come forward seeing there's no one from the public I'll make a motion to close the public portion second second all in favor I board members we have before us an application for the second time we were here in December we're back here in January they did agree to all our professional planners and and Engineers reports they just agreed about the ceiling height on the second floor so we alleviate the parking issue going forward with the property um it's up to you guys which what you rather do at this point I'd make a motion to approve the application subject to all the conditions they've agreed to including um lowering the ceiling to make sure the second floor is not habitable um the architectural changes and all the other um things they've agreed to on the plans then this evening to both of our professionals do I have a second before we go to a roll call um this is for uh Mark are they going to have to come back for a final I mean this we're doing a use variance right now Mr chairman this is for use variant and preliminary and final major site plan okay so are you comfortable with them presenting the final here with all the bers with what you provided what they provided with all the out side stuff Mr chairman in this in this situation the parking lot's built there was a building there they took it down they have you know this building is partially built already so uh I think it you know it's appropriate for the board to do uh use and preliminary final site plan at this point it's not setting any precedent it's totally different if it was a vacant piece of land that they were developing okay uh Mr totto if there should be any comments or questions or concerns going forward are you willing to meet with our board professionals absolutely if something comes out other the outside this realm yes absolutely okay we do have a motion on the board for approval Madam Secretary roll call please miss Carrie yes Mr Masters yes Mr busman yes Mr tany yes Mr jaffy yes Mr Cole no chairman LF yes thank you for your time uh last month and this month thank you give you a few minutes to vacate all right actually we're going to take five minutes we're going to give the stenographer a chance to get set up and get ready so we'll ajarn in five we'll we'll reconvene in five minutes e e e e e e e e e good evening everyone we're back in section session the next applicant ba- 5252 I'm sorry ba-52 51-24 257 Apple goth LLC go ahead Mr P thank you good evening Mr chairman members of the board board's professional staff and public my name is Kenneth Pape I'm an attorney with hurn Pape and this evening I have both the privilege and the responsibility of representing your applicant I'm going to stop you for one second we would like a copy of the transcript I want that on the record please surely Mr chair there's a court reporter here this evening at my age I don't remember things as much as I used to so I'm now making certain there's a court reporter at every meeting so I can have a transcript but we will provide that transcript to the board at no cost or expense and if you wish to you can adopt it as your official transcript thank you you're welcome shareif would would you be able to turn that tripod a little bit to uh your left oh towards this camera so we can pick it up a little bit better towards this one right here look at the right here it's Candid Camera smile okay we're sorry Mr thank you so we have an official transcript available through the court report at the expense of the uh grab the microphone hold the mic closer closer we have an official transcript that will be provided by the court reporter at the expense of the applicant this is an application that we present actually before we go to the application if I may counselor our legal notices were provided in advance of the hearing would you confirm the adequacy of the notice for the board to take jurisdiction and Mr pape I can confirm I did review the affida of mailing and publication and the board does have jurisdiction to hear this application uh but for the record this is a bifurcated use variance is that correct correct the application that we prevent present to you is bifurcated the use variance portion only if the variant it's actually a combination of a D1 and a D3 variance request if that relief is granted by the board the applicant will have an obligation to return to the board for site plan review and approval assisting in the presentation of the application this evening are a number of professionals the a representative of the company 257 Applegarth is here with us Barat Patel who seated in the the right here behind me is the member of the the applicant the persons who will testify this evening are Sharif Ali of amorch engineering he prepared the variant plan and will present same to the board in its entirety avart Patel is our client's architect he's prepared architectural plans he'll describe the architectural elements and the features of the proposed retail and flex office style building Scott Kennel is our traffic expert who will provide testimony with both regard to the parking and on-site circulation he also spent time with the county where our properties's on a County Road he spent time with the county to work out with them a tenative traffic plan and he'll present his um discussions with the county to the board for their consideration the final professional witness intended to be called by the applicant is Mark Rema as the board is aware he is a professional planner he'll provide the planning testimony and the proofs that are required for this board to consider the relief that is requested the application that we present to you this evening is a mixed use development located near the intersection of Applegarth Road and Union Valley Road our client's property is located in three separate zones we are partially in the neighborhood commercial Zone partially in the R30 residential Zone and partially in the flood Hazard conservation Zone our client's property is currently two separate Lots this evening we'll present the testimony in support of the variance relief if that variance relief is granted we will return to the zoning board with an application for both a resubdivision of the property and plan the resubdivision would result in three lots we now have two there'd be three two of the Lots would be conforming single family residential lots in the R30 zone two fully conforming residential lots in the R30 Zone if that was the only relief that we were at requesting we wouldn't be here we'd be at the planning board but the relief continues we are also looking to create a multi-purpose lot and this lot would contain three buildings two would be freestanding retail buildings and a third would be a flex office building at the outset I'd like to eliminate some confusion the architectural plan show on the one of the retail buildings a drive-through there's no drive-thru the drive-thru was an idea that was contemplated early on there is no drive-thru the plans pres prepared by amch accurately show the building without the drive-thru the property is 20 plus acres in size and has a number of natural environmental constraints as your professional board reports have identified this property has stream Corridor Wetlands Wetland buffers and flood Hazard areas all of which present some access limitations and development limitations all of these natural elements are respected in the applicant's design it should be noted that the conditions that are imposed by these have been incorporated into the design during Sharie Ali's testimony he'll take the few moments to identify all of the environmental constraints and he will confirm that they have been respected and are not compromised the variance relief that the applicant request of this board includes a D3 request for the proposed retail building the retail building is in the neighborhood commercial Zone and Retail building are permitted in the neighborhood commercial Zone subject to conditions we do not meet all of those conditions we'll provide you with the conditions that we don't meet and we'll ask for the board to consider granting the D3 relief based on the proof provided the applicants proposed use of the retail buildings is I said consistent with the Zone however there's also a flex office building and a flex office building located behind the retail buildings is not expressly permitted in the neighborhood commercial Zone and accordingly D1 relief is required with your permission I'll introduce um the first witness call Mr Sharif Ali and Mr chair I'll ask since most of the Witnesses are frequent flyers before this board I'll ask if you and your councel if you want to hear their credentials or accept them from based on prior testing Mr the sharif's okay Mark's okay when we get to the architect we'll need some information and Mr K engineer PL um traffic and we'll we'll uh ex the traffic very good thank you so Mr Ali if you would stand to be sworn you s the testimony going to provide us the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do if for the record you could just state your name spell your last name and give us your address uh Sharif Ali Al y 757 Ridgewood Avenue North Brunswick I'm Tech engineer and Mr oi you've previously appeared and qualified as an expert in the area of professional engineering before this board since last year appeared and so qualified have your credentials been detrimentally affected at all not at all super duper thank you Mr Ali if you could introduce the application by first identifying the exhibits that you intend to rely upon for your presentation yes I'll start with the uh Ariel uh that's a Google map uh was downloaded today and we'll call this A1 and the applicants professionals are sharing reduced versions of the plans that will be presented officially so the uh purpose of that is just to get you um situated as far as the location uh of the site okay um North ARA is pretty much following uh Abarth Road West will be to the top of the sheet East will be to the bottom and we at the intersection pretty much hugging almost the intersection ction of Abarth road which is a county road as well as Union Valley Road uh again it's a county road so none of the roads are uh Township roads the only exception to the intersection is Nunan garage uh Nunan Body Shop one of the best we have in town so he's hugging the 90 Dee uh angle there at the intersection by the traffic light that's a control traffic light and the rest of the frontage is been pretty much at the intersection on the northeast quadrant of that intersection is being occupied by the site the to the South you have uh the bank on the other side of the intersection stick in the corner exactly the corner and also you have the residential community of the R3 and then you have stone bridge behind that uh the quar on the other side of the intersection you have also residential Community uh that was built uh in uh beginning of 2000 across the street you could see the it's still seeing the parking lot and the driving range and some of you probably been there now was taken over by the township so the township owns across street to the north of that we have cranberry uh Brook and all the flood plane and the wetlands that hug in the Brook on the other side of that you have our senior Clear Brook Community um and you have you could see the golf course on the um on the map and you could see how far is the near uh units thousands of feet away from the project so quite a bit you have some single family and some Mix commercial also on the North uh side the Northwest side of Abarth Ro we also have another Township own uh property which is the mud it's all the way to the South with the exception of three single family home along the road the in the R30 zone so that's pretty much uh what we have as far as location County Road and where we at with the uh controll intersection before you leave that exhibit could you advise the board a proximately the distance where the woodlands and the environmental constraints are located on the north side of the property what is that dimension on our client's property and What's the total Dimension that's a good one approximate Mr Al um well I have a a a radius map on the uh cover sheet and we have 200 500 I believe so it's more than 500 more than 500 ft was all the the green that you see the applicant's proposal leaves all of that in place as the board is looking at it today you really cannot do anything there so uh that is um the area um that Mr P's referring to is the fhc zone and you're not allowed to do anything in that zone for ordance but you also have the cranberry Brook you have the wetlands uh you have the flood plane which is a flood Hazard uh line you have the drcc buffers all and the wetlands buffer do all perap any uh disturbance or buildings within that there's a certain permit that you can obtain but really the uh they're not going to give a development so that whole entire area that you see in green it's pretty much going to stay in green and we'll get into that into the color Maps very good are you ready to move to the next exhibit yes if you would yes this will be A2 and what what are we handing out Mr Ry yeah A2 it's the A2 yes but if you could describe it if you could describe it rendered so A2 uh was prepared pretty much with Mr ramsa and his planning testimony um as well as traffic too um what you see on A2 the red line is the uh the fhc Zone that's a zone that the title block please oh uh it's just a zoning exhibits yes thank you y please so uh you see to the north is the uh Red Line uh pretty much shooting through the site from east to west and that is the FC Zone containing the uh cranberry Brook and Associated uh Wetlands on both but there is more wetlands and flood plane and onsite but that's what the FC Zone FC Zone as shown on the ordinance pretty much follows the FEMA map that's how was established on in the ordinance now FEMA uh you have flood Hazard he added three fet on top of FEMA as of July of last year that's why we have more flood Hazard on site what you also see is that the dark green area which is in within the NC Zone this is aign for the NC zone so you have the blue and then it cross uh over uh with the green shading that's the NC Zone with quite a bit of Frontage on Apple gar Thro so that's the zone that where we have pretty much the retail sitting in that area that M NPC Zone on site is about 5.33 so it's already exceeding the condition one of the condition in the NC Zone that's how was designated by the master plan and that what you see is what you get here rectangular shape close to about 200 250 ft deep and that's the NC Zone the rest of the property what you see here not colored is lot 18 U lot 16 which is the R30 zone so the purpose of the map is just to show you the relationship of the three zones on this piece of property but also to show that within the residential Zone the R30 Zone there is a tributary that takes off from cranberry Brook and pretty much takes about more than 100 acres of runoff that comes from Stonebridge Abarth Road the bank uh uh Nan body shop and the AR in that area and bring it into this area so the reason for that is that uh because of it's 100 acres this line that tributary has to be studied and a flood Hazard line has to be put on and a buffer for aian buffer for drcc and that's the reason pretty much that whole entire area in the uh NC Zone close to about 10 acres you just cannot use it it's will be environmentally sensitive area be protected the lot that we have in the NC zone is lot 18 and as I mentioned that it's about 5.33 Acres lot 16 is about 14.7 acres and you heard Mr pep talking about the total track is about 20 acres so that is the what we have uh also the reason for this map is to show that the add-on or the transfer of land which is about 2. 4 acre from the R30 Zone that you cannot get to it from Union Valley Road because of all the environmental constraint area in between it's just trapped up land area and that's the add-on or the transfer to the NC zone so we have 5.33 of an acre which is lot 18 and we adding Upland area of 2.4 the total area of Upland in the NC Zone and if you remove that green which is the environment constraint area somewhere around 6 Acres so just exceed that 5 acres by one in but you could see the reason why we adding this on and this map here shows that so our proposal is that in the RC Zone well we can get two lots of uh Union Value Route each Lots meet the ordinance requirement and no variances just two single family that will be coming off uh Union Valley matching and going along with the other three uh along the road the 60 fot buffer setback is already been provided and we showing each slot pretty much maintain uh the required acreage in the R30 the R30 is just 30,000 square ft so we do have that and we exceed that but we exceed it because of the all the green that comes from the environmentally sensitive area and on the other side of the brook we could not or we we can add more to the Lots from the area that is left in environment sensitive area in the R30 but it just it's not really a good idea for residential two residential home to maintain and cross the brook cannot even get to so we figured that to add the whole entire area up to the brook to the commercial uh site or retail site have the people that they going to own it to maintain it and it makes sense so that brings that whole entire track up to the the green up to the brook about 15 Acres that will be add into the NC Zone but again it's all environment sensitive area and fhc zone so that's the purpose of this map is just to show why we took that Upland that you cannot get to it from Union Valley and add it to Abarth Road Frontage in SE zone so before before you leave that sheet just if we could just one more time there's the flood Hazard conservation zone is shown on the plan no development at all on that parcel the R30 portion is shown on that plan and we're asking this board to permit the creation not tonight with the subdivision but we want them to know the whole story two residential lots in the R30 Zone Each of which fully conforms with the R30 requirements correct we show the the neighborhood commercial in the light green and then we have that that uh appendage below it which you've described as a trapped Upland trapped because no access is available except from the neighborhood commercial and we're proposing to Annex that to the neighborhood commercial and make it part of that development correct next exhibit all right just uh one uh one thing that I uh forgot to mention is that uh we also have uh a main trunk line of a s line that go through the site that trunk line it takes pretty much all the developments on the west side of Abarth Road I believe it's 16in line if I'm not mistaken and that that is contained with an easen that goes to the mud that's the final destination of that gravity line it goes to the mud and that is shown on the map and um just to point it out uh so we'll go to the next exhib if you would so the next exhibits is the uh uh the two sheets for the Landscaping put together and make it look pretty and the title on that is uh a rendering EX exibits this will be A3 and it's a compilation of two sheets that have been made into a single and then rendered yes by your office A3 yes thank you so A3 and the coloring on A3 will give you a much better understanding of all the environmentally sensitive area anything you see in blue and green dark green is environmentally sensitive area that's about 12 acres out of that 20 acres so now you could see the NC Zone what we proposing in there you see the two single family home and by the way we also have a conservation easement that goes along uh the common property line uh with a future home on this side and GSN home to the east 12 acres environmentally sensitive area ANC Zone was Frontage on abgar road and here Mr P saying that we do have three freestanding buildings two retails each one 14,000 square fet each 14,000 you said yes as it shows on the site plan or the use variance plan on the architectural each building could go up to about N9 tenant so we have a total of 18 n each typical retail that you see a long Apple go through the third building will be totally located in the R30 Zone and the area that we transfer into the uh NC Zone that is a flex it could be Flex commercial a light Industrial building very very light it's closer to what you um recently approved on Mount SM Road uh where you have the overhead doors and uh contractor uh using the units it's about five units but one of them has two loading docks um so and the two loading docks meet the requirement with for that building as far as what needs as U as a loading area the retail the back of the retail is a typical design of a retail if you go to back any one of the retail that we have through the town you will see the back area is a loading and unloading striped area about 12 ft wide and you'll see behind it it's oneway uh circulations to allow for better maneuvering and safety of motorists Within this area we do have two driveways of abalar throughout and a two driveway being placed by middle sex County we had a meeting with them and I believe our Township engineer was one of the attendant at the meeting not sure if Kevin did attend the meeting or not but um us with the town will invite the town and I believe Mr rosimo was part of the meeting and the agreement on that is that we have a full movements on the southern driveway and for now until we do our site plan we have right in and right out out of the northern driveway that what came out of the meeting but again we'll be subject toite plan and further reviews and our traffic engineer will talk more about that the driving that you see is a true striving out there um on the road the traffic light at the intersection movements on site it's all two ways with the exception behind the retail there is no drive-thru the architectural has a drive-thru there's no drive-thru want to be confused the between the three buildings were required about per ordinance our ordinance is very tough It's one uh space for 150 square ft for the retail most of the towns most of the ordinance out there one per 200 but even with that we meet all the requirement the spaces that is needed it's needed 216 for the three buildings and we do we do have um uh let me take that back uh we it's what we need uh 226 spaces and we do have with the credit for the AV spaces that we will be providing 10 AV spaces to meet the state requirement uh will have 229 so we do have each one of the space that we have here the standard National Standard and our traffic Consulting we can will elaborate more on that that's what you see out there in most of the towns and nationally recognized 9 by8 space we also have we fulfilled the requirement for Ada with the retail as well as the flux building on the map in the Inc and the commercial we show in the dumpsters area um again this is not a site plan this is a used variance we can move them around at the time of the site plan if it's needed we try to to show what would be the the landscaping around aite this is not totally finalized as far as the landscaping and the trees and what you see that will be going through aite plan I'm pretty sure um our planner will do a good job on that and as far as the sele ction and the size and all this good stuff so but we're trying to just demonstrate that we can provide Landscaping we also have one two three storm water management that we strongly believe that will meet the requirement as of last year July of last year as far as the increase of rainfall intensities but in addition to that we also tested the ground make sure that the water table is not shallow and that's being achieved so that's what we have in the area of the um commercial sore water sore line as I indicated going through the site there's a sore line on Valley uh Union Valley there's a water line on Applegarth Ro there's a water line on uh Union Valley they were all constructed beginning of 2000 with the development of the area to the West um of aarth road so utilities out there gas out there electrics out there we met with the county the frontage improvements additional pavement additional taken um sidewalk they will all be part of the side plan in the residential area you'll see that uh we shown the light green that is the area as well as the driveways and and the boxes for the homes that will two residential homes and each one will far exceed the area requirement and also there is no variances required at all so that's what we have on this one if I might Mr Ellie um although this is a use variance plan and the plan that you're presenting to the board is in fact a variance plan and not a site plan during your testimony you've indicated some investigations that have been you've done so that you're comfortable advising the board that as a professional engineer that this plan is achievable if you would you indicated that there's three storm water facilities and soil investigations were done by doing those soil investigations did you gather sufficient information and knowledge that you're comfortable that what you're showing as the areas for storm water management are realistic and that the plan that we're presenting to the board this evening although not fully engineered is realistic absolutely soil soil testing now we we as a design engineer we have to do a lot of interpretation first we have to do a flood Hazard verification first and then we have to do so testing we have to make sure that we work it's just the requirement coming down from this statea on us is just too much but we try to keep up and that's what we have done so far so that you you got my next question the LOI is in place the Wetland L letter of interpretation issued by the D is in place yes and that's shown on your plan and we also have the documents and the flood has a determination by the D have you undertaken that determination verification yes and that's shown on your plan it shows on a plan as far as drcc the buffer requirement confirmed was the drcc uh the the RCC yeah uh that is also on the plan and my last one is just work that you and the team did we we're on County Roads the county has jurisdiction over those roads but we need this board to be comfortable that what we're showing has been previewed by the county and if you could Mr kennel will talk about it a little bit further but you indicated there's a full Ser a full service driveway and a control driveway to a little more information on the the driveways that are at the southern and Northern ends of the project and a confirmation that that's was discussed with the County Traffic engineer yeah so as as I indicated that the uh we already met with the county as part of our due diligence and we discussed the uh the two driveways and their requirement was that uh full uh full service Drive driveway on a southern uh driveway and most likely this is a driveway will be taking the uh most of the cars coming into the site the uh if you missed the driveway come from the south and you traveling north you still have a way to get in and there is an island also prohibit they left turn out but again this is it's just a US variant we'll be meeting again with the county they ask us to show us driving we did he asked us to show the driveway we share that with them so before a s plan application we'll do the same thing more at site plan I I would want the board to have an understanding of what this applicant and his professional team did to prepare this plan and it's not just a pretty picture no it's not it's a lot of work here a lot of money Mr Ali the there's a report that was issued on January 20th by Mr R moit most of Mr razo's comments speak to issues that would be addressed at site plan have you had an opportunity to review that report yes is there anything in the report that you wish to address further than you have already this evening all the items are achievable and um we always work with the office of uh the township engineer and any additional item comes from the board we'll be glad to address we also did did receive a report January 22nd from CME from your planner um it was my intention to have our planner address that uh but if there are any questions that your planner has of Mr Ali um he certainly is prepared to address them that concludes my direct examination of Mr Ali this evening he is available to the board and the board's professionals at this time I think we're going to move forward with further testimony so fine please bring up your next professional very fine thank you our next professional witness is Mr avart Patel he is the applicants architect and although since his familiarity with the board and the board with he is not the same as Mr Ali after he is sworn we'll go right into his credentials if you could just grab that microphone bring it right up and if you could raise your right hand for me do you swear the testimony you're going to provide is the truth all truth and nothing but the truth yes I do if you could state your name spell your last name and give us your address please for the record sure uh avard Patel a a v r t last name Patel p a t l to Brandy Wine Court Randolph New Jersey Mr Patel please share with the board and the public your professional and educational background sure um oh okay thank you um I have a bachelor's and uh master's degree from University of Buffalo um I've been practicing uh as an architect in state of New Jersey since uh 2017 and uh I'm licensed in New Jersey as well as 14 other uh States uh and I've testified in um um lot of jurisdictions in northern New Jersey uh Cherry Hill Robins will um uh Edison um okay Mr P will accept his credentials as a professional thank you Mr avart Patel will testify as an architect and thank you for recognizing his expertise I'm going to ask if you could introduce the exhibits upon which you'll rely and starting with the retail buildings take us through the architectural elements and features of both you're more than welcome to stand alongside your exhibit if let do that I think be a little uh just Mr P for the record are these when you say exhibits are these exhibits are these items which were previously submitted to the board as part of your application were the plans that are rendered that you're about to rely upon submitted in rendered state to the board that is correct so uh the the exhibits were submitted the only change we made was to building number two where there was a previously drive-thru was shown and and uh uh uh I'll mark those exhibits uh you know which were which were exhibit for once we get to it exactly very fine so introduce us to exhibits read the title block that is on each one we'll mark it and then ask that you present the information that is shown uh sure so uh the the three building um design sets were submitted separately uh right now we're looking at uh uh retail building number one uh and there are three um drawings as part of that set um we are currently looking at uh exhibit A1 which is going to be A4 A1 is what shown your your number well I think a I think he had indicated that proposed building one had already been submitted was building one the one that had the drive-through associated with it uh no building number two building two so I think building A1 is a set that we already have we don't need to worry about that one thank you you got it got it title block just read the title block if you would uh sure it says um guess proposed Building Number One retail um the two retail buildings are are uh basically mirr copy of each other um I'm just going to walk you through the exterior and then we'll talk about where the two building comes together and there's a a little bit of a plaza uh but overall um the building has uh um building could potentially uh accommodate 9 different tenants uh it's uh been proposed as a about 40,000 ft footprint and uh uh there's a demise layout uh on the second page which shows the uh building floor plan um and it could be the divided in nine different spaces um overall the building is uh designed with uh uh four or five different materials um main uh material being um the the ephas uh smooth Limestone or or um extra smooth uh finish ephas uh highlighted by um wood look siding and uh um uh metal bending um along the uh various entrances to the uh to the retail spaces um some masonary stonework just to kind of exchange toate uh different volumes of of spaces and uh uh um overall the building doesn't look like just one plain space you know there are um every every space was which will have uh their own identity um We are continuing this similar treatment on the side of the building which is uh visible at the uh the entry point uh throughout the parking and uh uh both entry eag points um overall the building height is about 22 ft roof being at 22 uh 20 ft and uh about 2ot of parit um all the equipment would be located towards the the middle of that volume uh towards the backside so um it's uh not visible from uh from the parking in the street going to quickly move to page number two which shows the uh schematic layout of the uh the building uh with the entry uh to each space highlighted and uh um U the tenant could basically take two spaces and and develop that as as a one so uh not necessarily nine tenants but it could have nine potential um separate tenants um this is page number 83 which uh shows the uh the building elevations um as you can see the uh the the front elevation which has uh two tower-like elements uh uh um as a as a corner uh element uh uh and then um uh accent uh elements of um you know wood look sighing which is uh you know more of a composite wood look sighting uh uh less uh maintenance uh durable and uh the the store fronts are proposed as a um uh glass storefront system with a with a a black color and uh uh in between two um um entry doors you know we are highlighting this uh uh this area Under The Canopy with the some green elements just to kind of create little interest uh entering the uh the retail uh establishments uh every uh storefront is covered with a with a canopy of uh varing projection uh the corner element has the uh the most projection and and creates a more like a portal um which is a exposed metal frame and uh uh all the other balcon I mean the canopies are um caning out about 2 to 3 fet um and uh just providing um immediate protection um during the you know inclement weather uh Mr Pape can I interject for a second um I don't want the board to be deceived we're not here for a site plan we're here for a use variance as though the buildings look beautiful it's irrelevant tonight because you don't even know if you can build there so I understand you're trying to get an overall concept but we're not going to get through stuff if we're going to look at the facade of a building that you can't build yet if I may Mr chairman points well made the the the reason that we took the time to share with you the architectural features is a demonstration that the buildings are intended to be highend and attractive and would be appropriate for the neighborhood if you feel that enough of that information's been shared I have only one other question i' ask of Mr Patel about signage and then I'm ready to move on I'm not going to speak on behalf of each individual board member but this is all going to come back to us if it should be approved then that's when we'll have an opportunity to tweak and turn what needs to be done and you could show the beauty of the building right now you can't build it there so can't build it one of the board to understand the commitment of the applicant but if you if the board if it has a similar position as you Mr chair um I'll give this you can you can go you you know you have another question so okay let's do the signage and spend perhaps just two minutes on showing the building the flex building just introduce it we'll talk about sign and then we're going to give you the hook so just for the record we're moving to building three correct we're going to building that is correct and the purpose of introducing this building is a demonstration that all of the buildings have a Harmony and if you could just point that out that colors materials are similar sure and height um we're looking at uh um sheet A1 uh as part of the the proposed building number three um as you can see the U the the flax industrial building is proposed as a um some sort of pre-cast uh wall system but we are in integrating some of the uh accent materials from the other two retail building into this so it doesn't look like a a true pre-cast building with just a uh one one or two color and and textures uh so all the materials we are using on the the other two retail building will will come through here especially at the entrances uh as a overhead door as well as the um the pedestrian entrance with the for the short front system and uh similar uh canopy with the with a green element in the middle uh as um just the the front of the building if you could Now take us to the signage that is proposed for the retail building if it just if you could just describe the signage um so the the signus we are proposing is uh uh basically will will um enhance each tenant uh the signage will be in compliance with the uh with the certain signage ordinance but uh um you know this is just shows a rough location of where um the the tenant signage would go and uh um again as I said it would be uh fully in conformance with the with the local ordinance and it would be presented as part of the uh the full sight plan application made a comment early on that there would be an an area between the two retail buildings that was a unique feature if you could just take one moment to describe that unique feature that is part of the two buildings uh sure so um as you can see this uh Tower element which is uh uh uh basically the the other building is mirroring on on that side and then there is a uh about 15 to 18t space in between two buildings which would be would which could become um outdoor seating area if uh let's say the U uh the endcaps are or restaurant or or Food Service type establishment then that could be um uh developed as an outdoor seating um and and some activity space related to the the two retail buildings I thank you Mr chair I thank you for the opportunity to present Mr Patel's building design we recognize that this would be a much more detailed presentation at site plan but we did want the board members and the public to recognize the applicant's commitment to a high-end building I have no further questions of Mr Patel and he is available to you or we're ready to go to the third witness you can go right to your third wit go to the third witness thank you Mr pel thank you Mr kennel if you would join us on my way you can just grab that microphone because if they can't hear you they'll yell at me so do use for the testimony going to provide us the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do if you can state your name spell your last name and give us your address please for the record sure Scott Kennel k n n l with MCD and Ray Associates located at 1431 Lakewood Road manisan Mr chair Mr kennel has testified accept his credentials he's been here before thank you so much thank you and just for the record Mr kennel your credentials has not been detrimentally affected since last you appeared qualified as an expert in the area of traffic that's correct thank you Mr kenel I'm going to ask if you could in narrative fashion indicate the nature of the investigations that your firm conducted then if you would go on site if you could describe the adequacy and safety of the circulation as it is shown on the variance plan if you could discuss with the board the adequacy of the parking and its location and I think the most important thing that you could share with us is the discussions that you've had with the county and the plan elements that are shown that reflect those discussions all right I'll start off by my office prepared a traffic impact study dated February 21 2024 that was submitted as part of the application it summarizes the tasks that were undertaking the first task is an inventory of existing traffic conditions adjacent to the site relative to alagar Road unud Valley Road as well as the adjacent intersection my office conducted manual attorney movement traffic counts uh on Tuesday October 177 2023 from 8: to 10:00 a.m. and 4: to 6:00 p.m. and then on a Saturday because we have the retail type use C were conducted on October 14 20123 from 11:00 a.m. to 1: p.m. and and as far as I provide a quick summary as the existing traffic conditions along the site Frontage J Applegarth Road during the am peak hour we had approximately a th000 Vehicles two-way along the site Frontage with the predominant movement Northbound again commuter oriented uh traffic patterns during the PM peak hour which was from 5: to 6:00 p.m. we had approximately 12200 Vehicles two way along the S Frontage and then on Saturday the peak hours from 11:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. with uh significantly lower volumes approximately 740 Vehicles evenly distributed Northbound and Southbound The Next Step was to determine how much traffic would be generated by the proposed development and under consideration is two retail buildings toing 28,000 Square ft and then a an industrial building which slightly less than 21,000 Square ft The Institute of Transportation Engineers trip generation manual was consulted and was determined and provided and it's documented in in the report that the retail buildings would generate approximately 184 peak hour trips during the PM and Saturday peak hours whereas the industrial building has much uh different traffic characteristics would generate approximately 15 peak hour trips so it's a much less intensive use and generally has traffic conditions that are not uh coincidental with the peak retail so from that perspective it's a it's a good mix with the industrial building being that that third building or the Eastern Building and then the retail uses along the site Frontage once we have the the uh traffic projections necessary to determine how traffic will be assigned to the area roadway Network we took into consideration the area roadway uh Network the existing traffic patterns and basically with our analysis we assigned approximately 50% of the traffic tun from the north 30% to and from the south south of uh the union Valley Road intersection and then 10% to the East and 10% to the West we then looked at a future buildar and then included traffic growth Based on data published by the New Jersey Department of Transportation once we expanded the existing traffic volumes to the design year the site traffic was then surcharged and let me also state that based on the traffic projections we also took into consideration there during the PM and Saturday peak hours um a passby component is always known and there's data uh indicating that uh 25 to 30% of traffic associated with retail is drawn from the existing traffic flow it's not new traffic to the area so that was taken into consideration in our analysis as far as the intersection of Applegarth Road and Union Valley Road the signalized intersection was analyzed with and without the development it was determined that during the am peak hour that the intersection operate overall level service C with and without the development in the afternoon or weekday PM period determined to operate a level service D with and without the development and on a Saturday uh was a level service C Level service C to D is the target range when you're evaluating the efficiency and operational characteristics of the of an signalized intersection and we achieve those um those thresholds as far as the site driveway um as was mentioned earlier we had a meeting with middle sex County on July 24 2024 and there in that meeting we discussed the site access configuration the one deviation I have from what um Mr Aliyah testified to is my notes and I recall from discussions the norly driveway would permit left turn egress as well so it would be left turns and right turns from the Northerly driveway the uh the county was concerned about allowing left turns into the Northerly driveway because we would not have the pavement width to accommodate a dedicated left turn lane and that's because of a proximity of the stream Corridor and the bridge to the north of the site so all traffic origina from the north would make a left turn into the site at the souly driveway the other benefit we have with with this site is located in the traffic signals the traffic signal itself also provides interruptions in traffic flow and improves accessibility to from the site by platooning the traffic and and creating gaps but it was determined that the site driveway driveways would operate a level Service uh C with the um access design as the discussed with um middle sex County so thereby the site driveways would operate safely and efficiently based on the level service analysis uh based on the improvements we'll provide along the C Frontage with a dead with a uh left turn lane for the sub driveway into the site and we have more than adequate site distance that exceeds the recommended standards along the site Frontage which again OB obviously would be subjected to a more thorough review by middle County with a formal site plan application as far as the site plan is concerned um Mr Ali went through uh the number of parking spaces provided and compliance to the uh Township ordinance and even stated that you know the parking standard for retail is on the high end as compared to recommended standards so it's it's my opinion we have more than adequate parking for the uses on on site and and the parking is well distributed to accommodate uh the retail buildings along alagar Road as well as the industrial building uh on the east side of this um portion of the site uh on-site circulation it's been designed to accommodate not only the passenger vehicles but the um refu and other delivery vehicles that are Serv as this site it's also been designed to accommodate tractor trailers which in my opinion will be a limited basis given the size of the retail and the size of the industrial building but it has been designed to accommodate um tractor trailers as it's configured uh before you so from that perspective um it's my opinion that the site has been laid out and designed to safely and efficiently accommodate on-site circulations for both passenger vehicles and large wheelbase vehicles uh basically in summary the site's been designed well the site access in my opinion can operate safely and efficiently and there is more than adequate capacity to accommodate uh traffic entering and exiting the site as well as at the adjacent intersection where the levels of service are the same with and without this site in the uh design year analysis I have a couple of quick questions um safe distance on the for the driveways if you could just comment horizontal and vertical conditions are favorable for the driveway location that's correct we have an excess of 550 ft of sight distance at both locations and there is an existing established Commercial Business located at the true intersection of the roadways if you could confirm that our driveway design does not create any conflicts for that existing business that correct I have nothing further of Mr kennel Mr chair okay so I think we're going to do we're going to take five minutes give your stenographer uh a little finger break and we'll reconvene at 8:15 thank you e e e e e e e e e e e fingers you ready to roll limbert fingers and hand warmers hand warmers Mr chairman members of the board the fourth professional witness the fourth and the final professional witness in support of the relief that we request this evening is Mr Mark Rema a professional planner if we could have him sworn and I'll ask if he'll accept his credentials before he begins his testimony you spread the testimony you're going to provide us the truth all truth and nothing but the truth I do state your name spell your last name and give us your address for the record please mark a Rema r e MSA 10 dubury Court Mount Laurel New Jersey Mr Mr chair since you last testified have your credentials been removed we accept his credentials they haven't changed CH something like that we accept your credentials thank you Mr chair I think it's important to note that we've had the guidance of Mr Rema throughout the design stage everything that you've seen this evening Mr Rema has participated in the professional meetings I'm going to ask if you could in a narrative fashion and Mr Remer heard all of the fact Witnesses who preceded him this evening I'm going to ask if you could in a narrative fashion take us through the obligations of the applicant the proofs that are required and then take us through those proofs yes so there are two types of use variances before you tonight one is um called the D3 variants which is the um conditional use variants that deals with the fact that um neighborhood commercial shopping center is a permitted use contemplated in the zone but it has specific requirements and we don't meet three of those so that throws us into the D3 use variants and then the other one uh deals with the um Flex uh uh we'll call it flex light industrial office type building in the back which is in that I think was described as that landlocked spot of the R30 Zone R30 Zone does not permit that kind of use so that's a D1 variance so what I'm going to do is I'm going to tackle the D3 first because that has a different set of um of proofs and those proofs are based on the the Coventry uh case um I am going to be a little bit redundant uh uh bringing back a couple of the exhibits that uh were discussed earlier so I'm going to go over here hopefully I can find the sharif's uh I'm looking for that zoning map for exhibit A2 yes thank you you got it and in A2 demonstrates the uniqueness of the property and it's Unique because why there are three different zoning districts uh uh laid over on on this uh parel of land um NC which is a u a strip along Applegarth you have the FC Zone fhc Zone which deals with the uh flet Hazard area and then you have the R30 which is below the blue line and extending um to the to the East and so um you can see and I'm tracing this Dash blue line which really limits the access from the rest of the R30 Zone PR principally due to the tributary to Cranberry uh Brook uh isolating it from uh the rest of the uh uh Eastern part where we would have the two um uh compliant uh single family homes in the R30 zone so really the the the focus here is on this very oddly shaped area of the property so I'm also going to work from Mika's report uh January 22 yeah thank you so in her report she highlights the three conditions that we don't meet um so a little little background of of the NC Zone the NC Zone does permit shopping centers but neighborhood uh commercial shopping centers and so there are two other types in town community commercial centers and Regional so there's a reason why these requirements for uh neighborhood commercial shopping centers are put into place the reason why they have a maximum of five acres and the reason why is principally intensity of use and traffic generation they're supposed to to be smaller scaled commercial developments that um don't have that high level of traffic that a community uh Center would have or Poss even a a regional so the neighborhood commercial has to be really uh designed uh to the uh uh surrounding neighborhood and that's why they have that limit of 5 Acres we don't meet the five acres because the port uh that will contain the um uh shopping center is a little bit over 5 acres and then the balance of the the property comes up to roughly 15 Acres so that alone uh technically doesn't meet the the five um acre maximum another one is the uh landscape buffer um you have have a 65- ft landscape buffer from any um adjoining residential zoning District so across Applegarth to the West is zoned residential but that property is is owned by the uh Monroe Board of Education and it was purchased for uh that purpose not for residential development but indeed we have roughly an 18 to 20 foot uh St strip along Applegarth that would be the landscape buffer as opposed to the 65 ft that's technically required because uh we have Applegarth and then across the street is a residential Zone and then the last one is um the uh NC Zone recognizes that um for commercial development you do have you you um should have parking in the front yard but it it limits it to 20% of the um parking uh in that supply and I believe we're roughly 43% uh of the parking so I believe it was like 97 spaces are in front of the building but it only makes sense to have 90 the these spaces here because why well you want the customers to be able to access the fronts of the commercial building so in in terms of the Coventry case the focus is more on what are what are the deviations and what kind of of of um effect neg if at all any kind of negative impact they would have um and uh can they be ameliorated or or if they do exist um do they not have uh uh such such a minor uh impact on on the the fact that they deviate from uh the standards so I talked a little bit about that 5 acre so really the front portion that's part of the NC zone is 5 Acres but really if we take take this I think Shar has here 5.3 Acres of this strip here if we take this out we're not even close to the 5 Acres so really it's more of a technicality uh uh in terms of uh not meeting that the five acres I I don't see any negative impact at all the fact that uh we have the 15 Acres total uh of that and as a matter of fact under the under the uh NC Zone you're allowed to have a floor area ratio of. 35 and if you had. 35 for uh for the maximum of 5 Acres that's let's see I calculated that to be just a little over 7600 Square ft of gross floor area and we have 2800 square ft of commercial and we add the the light Industrial in the back we end up with um almost 4900 49,000 Square ft so we're we're well below even even with including the building that's remote placed in the back even if we add these all together the floor area ratio if this was 5 Acres comes comes way below so so really the intensity of use here is is is uh right in line if not underneath what's contemplated for the shopping center now in terms of the landscape buffer um I I don't think the the the uh 65 ft landscape buffer would add anything to it other than the fact it would push everything further away and indeed you want to have a successful shopping center and shopping centers rely on pass by traffic and visibility and if we uh uh had a a a 65t high uh wide buffer with with high BMS and Landscaping you'd essentially uh hide the commercial shopping center so I I think uh uh in terms of if you do approve this we would have to come back to you and demonstrate that we can create uh birming and Landscaping that would be very attractive with the intent but not to hide uh this because there's not going to be any residential Development Across The Street The Bard of Ed owns the property and then also I touched on a little bit of that parking in the front yard well the parking in the front yard goes in hand in hand with uh the commercial operation and um I believe uh that there's really no significant detriment from having the 40 3% of parking in the front yard uh because uh It's associated with um the uh commercial operations so that's pretty much the keeping it simple uh and straightforward uh in terms of the the Coventry uh case now I'm going to move into the uh D1 variants cuz the proofs are a little different and again I'm going to rely on this exhibit over here and the uniqueness of the property and the uniqueness of the restrictions the environmental constrict restrictions so so really putting any kind of residential development isolated here and for and forcing to go through uh the commercial development is is least desirable so they come up with a use and and the reason why we chose the light industrial a couple of reasons one is it doesn't have any visibility at all to the street and so having something back here that doesn't rely on pass by traffic more of destination so if we put a a a light industrial use that had accommodate like for the small contractors and those kinds of uh uses uh the Tradesmen they know where they're going and they know that uh they don't need to rely on um uh the pass by traffic for their business their business operates principally by either phone or probably by U website now uh internet uh uh so so having this type of use in the back certainly makes an efficient use of the land but you also heard Scott talk about the traffic generation putting more commercial back here with the p potential of even more commercial traffic defeats the purpose of the NC zone so putting something back here that's compatible but having low traffic generation and actually its characteristics uh are quite different than the commercial they start earlier in the morning they end earlier in the day and they don't really and you heard the uh peak hour traffic generation was 15 trips which is uh almost nothing so in terms of terms of the legal proofs going to talk with the Positive criteria first and that relates to the special reasons and it has to promote the intent and purpose of the municipal land use law and that's njsa 40 col 55 d-2 and I'm going to talk about uh uh certain ones and I'm going to talk about the small letter and then I'm going to paraphrase so the first one is to provide adequate light air and open space space so when you look at the property Peter help me out which one is this A1 A1 so A1 is that um uh overall Google Maps and you can see all of the dark green uh where the existing condition of the uh site is is heavily wooded um so if you see my hand tracing the area that would be developed for that combination of commercial and flex use is here tremendous amount of buffering tremendous amount of open space tremendous amount of uh air light and open space would be provided uh from this development and even I don't know oh good so it show it shows the two the two homes on Union Valley that would be proposed here and that even in the far back all that open space would be provided so I I believe it meets that purpose provide sufficient space for appropriate location for a variety of uses I touched on that a little bit about the commercial use and the light industrial use and certainly the commercial use um fits into the NC Zone and the uh light industrial use is is a compatible uh use it actually supplements the use a portion of the property that's really not suitable for commercial development but it makes good good use of of the L of the remaining up lens and it has the uh uh very low traffic generation so I would say that this is a very good property for uh that combined uh type of usage and and that's uh G by the way uh I to promote a desirable visual environment through creative development techniques well certainly all of that preservation of of the uh existing woodlands and and open space and flood plane is going to create a very beautiful uh uh setting uh for both the the homes as well as the uh non residential proposed uses and uh yes we are shifted toward the road we don't have the 65 ft but we have the have the 18 ft to 20 ft along here which I believe which which is very similar to other uh commercial development we have up and down Applegarth but I believe in this instance that that 20t width is sufficient to provide um uh the the birming and the Landscaping with the intent of the purpose of the uh ordinance and then also uh I don't want to belabor it but I have to say the architecture I think was was outstanding and will be a very attractive addition uh uh uh to to that area uh the the next one is J uh and that is to prevent urban sprawl into the degradation of the environment and you heard Sharie talk about not um uh touching and violating any of the environmentally sensitive areas on the property um and this is in an area that's as you can see from the aerial further out this is a developed and developing area and this would fit into the uh overall development scheme of the area and so um I I believe this would make a good addition uh uh and uh more compact development in an area that it would serve you can see all the residents that's what neighborhood commercial is for serve the local residents and you can see all the potential uh local residents that would be customers uh uh M and that speaks to the more efficient use of land and I talked about the fact that you had this odd shape of developable land you had the uh area up front that was suitable for commercial development visibility it needs uh from from the local roads but you have the hidden area in the back that is not suitable for commercial in my opinion not suitable for Comm for residential because it would be isolated and forced to be driving through commercial development so what other low impact uh use that could be compatible with the commercial and that is the proposed uh light industrial Flex type of space and then finally a because of I believe the foregoing factors I don't I believe that it will certainly promote the public health safety morals and general welfare site suitability um I touched on a number of those uh uh aspects uh through my uh talk uh but I will reiterate number one Applegarth is a county road it's a high volume Road and C zone is there it's it's intended to capture uh the U uh and be served by uh that that Highway and I believe uh that the commercial component as well as well as the uh light industrial component would be well served by by that uh Highway and you also heard the fact that um Scott's analysis did not have any uh significant negative impact on the operations of that Highway also the property actually uh uh when some of you may remember when when it was the Green Gables right uh there was a a tabern and restaurant there and the remnants of that are still there the back portion is All U uh cleared gravel uh so this property uh and that goes into the um uh goes back uh in into the uh uh other portions of the property um so it was commercial one time uh it was um more expansive so I think this U uh site is uh suitable for that Redevelopment uh for the um uh for for the uh commercial and light Flex industrial use and also I believe the environmental constraints are definitely a plus because it helps create the significant buffer um and and actually isolates the the back portion from any other residential development the the woods are so thick that um it would provides a wonderful screen uh to to the uh back portion negative criteria so we have to look at does this acre any substantial detriment to the public good so the first focus is on neighboring properties so to the north what's to the North Woods what's to the east Woods Woods yes thank you Gary it's woods and then and then the area where the residents are we we we're proposing more more uh residential development act actually acting as an additional buffer from anything from from the back portion here so it's Woods what's to the West uh um uh I'm sorry to the South well the South you have the beginning of the residential development we have the uh Auto Body Shop the bank so really this wonderful buffer here will buffer all of the residents over here uh they they will have a difficult time even seeing what goes here and this is a low lowly building and then the other part to the South Commercial develop next to commercial development um uh and and an auto body shop I I think these uses are compatible I see no detriment and then what's to the West Woods and open space open where the driving range us used to be I see no negative impact at all as a matter of fact the commercial will act as a buffer in the screen the public won't even know that these buildings are back here surrounded by all the these woods and building so this this will be uh tucked away in the back and screened by the attractive uh commercial development finally the last part of the negative criteria is does how does this uh does it substantially impair the intent and purpose of the Zone plan and zoning ordinance um so I have to look at the 2022 uh master plan uh indeed uh it it has luse elements uh in there goals and objectives for that uh and it does actually have a goal of promoting Industrial Development in appropriate locations and not every property can provide such an appropriate location for this low intensity uh light industrial uh type of use and I think you heard sharf talk about that it's more akin to uh the trades person or the contractor uh where there will be absolutely no outdoor storage right there has to be absolutely no outdoor storage everything that must be done Inside Yes will there maybe be some uh business Vehicles parked on there yes there'll be business Vehicles parked in the back um but no outdoor storage at all uh and also uh another goal is to encourage the appropriate location of commercial development in the areas of uh of uh population concentration and you heard me talk a little bit about the NC Zone and how this industrial use is is um uh compatible and it generally when you have the contractors and and the trades people those are the folks that will go and be called on for a plumbing issue electrical issue renovating a kitchen those are the kinds of uh light industrial uses that we're thinking here uh that would be permitted and so they would actually be a service uh to the residents of the town and and surrounding area and also uh helps um strengthen the the local economy um encourage uh Redevelopment and infield development I talked a little bit about when it was The Gables and then I think uh redeveloping this with with a new modern uh U mix of of uh commercial and the light industrial uses uh would advance that as well and then finally to ensure Monroe has in in place sufficient strategies to minimize natural Hazard risks and natural Hazard risks deal with um uh flooding uh that that's a big um issue in in New Jersey and and as Shar said they they've uh studied this property and are proposing nothing in any of the uh flood Hazard areas uh and keep that away so in conclusion I believe you can approve the the D3 and the D1 uh use variances for this property um uh as as proposed and certainly M and I believe Mark's report also touch on a number of different bulk variances and and issues all of those will be addressed at if you to approve this this will all be addressed at at C plan um and and uh we would have another time to discuss that so in conclusion I believe you can approve these these variances at the outset of Mr rem's testimony I indicated to you that he was a part of the team throughout the design of this project I think that the abundance of logic and the choices of uses and their placement on the site has come out and I will share with you those were not accidental choices those were choices that were made with guidance from Mr Rema I have nothing further in the way of directive Mr Rema and that concludes the professional presentation Mr chair I look to you as to how you wish to proceed thank you uh mik since smck left off I'm going to refer to you first to uh if you have any comments sure um thank you Mr RZA for um and all the experts for the testimony um let's start from what was just presented um in terms of negative criteria and the intent no substantial impact of the Zone plan I mean it is established the neighborhood commercial is a conditional use that's permitted in the zone it had certain criteria such as setbacks requirement as well as buffer requirement I believe you're very familiar with Township of Monroe ordinance these buffers have always been in place for every kind of commercial use so it's not a surprise that has always been required and added why why a choice of adding another third use when maybe the same neighborhood commercial could have been set back avoided some of the conditions such as front yard parking such as buffer setback and given a use which is maybe it didn't meet the maximum lot area but it met the other conditions well if if you were to uh push push the commercial farther back um you would then have much more the parking in the front right so so that would defeat the purpose of that um no you could put parking in the font front the Upland area I know that's the R30 Zone but you have the argument that the NC zone is right next to it the same argument that's being made here today but a slightly lesser impact because the neighborhood commercial Zone Zone already permits that use and it is right next to it rather than introducing an entirely new use in the R3 zone I'm not sure I quite follow what you're saying but what I'm saying is why wouldn't you know the same retail be just pushed back a little bit so that the setback requirement is met the buffer requirement is met maybe the parking is set back behind the building or what have you and and you meet the neighborhood commercial use well the neighborhood commercial depth of the neighborhood commercial zone is very shallow there right so so if you kept pushing things back you would end up in the R30 Zone I agree with that right so um the uh idea here was to minimize the amount of uh of commercial uh uh area within the NC zone right to to comply with that which which this this does right the fact that if we had to push it further back and we didn't have the R30 or uh the residential Zone across the street which really is not really residential because it's not going to be developed as residential that setback would only be 25 ft right I believe so y right so if it was a non-residential Zone it would be 25 ft so agreed but it is not so right now that's what it is it's not but it's it's a technical I mean you have to look Beyond just what's written in black and white uh uh you have to really put it into the context of what's in in the area around the area so across the street it's zoned residential will never be residential it's owned by the school board uh and and so what is the negative impact of having the buffer just a little bit closer if it was really considered the 25 ft could we meet the 25 ft quite possibly when we come in and and look at the the at site plan but the back of the property is oddly shaped because of the environmental constraints the back of the property is really not conducive for commercial development because it won't have the the visibility that's really necessary for the vitality and and the survival of commercial development so if you we we've decided to put something in the back that would be less intensive in use but yet still be efficiently using the land and I described the fact that it's low impact low traffic um and so the two have a Synergy together as opposed to just pushing everything all the way in the back agre hold on a so let me ask I just have a question okay did you just tell us not to look at the black and white of our regulations and our Township planning process no you did no I didn't Lou you said it don't look past the black and white of what's written our regulations no no not no I did not Lou I said it for that zone across the street and that's that's that's it which is what is it Z it's owned uh residential thank you so I need to interject also since you already did Lou why do you say that the uh property that the Board of Education currently owns Which is an R30 residential Zone can't be sold the board of education has already had two referendums for to use that property that's been voted down so if I was the Board of Education and I needed money I'd sell that land all right we we need to restore some order that lot that lot is irrelevant to this application it's but it's mentioned I it it was mentioned but we can form our own opinions he's using it as a guideline ma please continue all right so again I'm I'm going to kind of just settle on that point again I mean in terms of the Zone impact fine if we are not looking at you know buffers have already always existed whether it's Highway commercial Zone neighborhood commercial Zone that is the tradem mark of Township of Monroe they've always had buffer requirement from a roadway so in terms of visibility that's not something the township of Monroe even after the adoption of their master plan has changed so that seems very clear the intent of the ordinance as well as master plan is to keep buffers and to keep these requirements so in terms of visibility that shouldn't matter now having said that like you know we have placed the building as eff ly of possible I agree with that and we are going to deal with the uh site plan portion when it comes to the other bulk variances but one other important variance over here would be the parking as well as the parking stall size I mean currently it has been shown by 9 by8 the the master plan happened the zoning ordinance hasn't changed so we it's a very clear definition to this board that the administration still wants to keep it as 10x 20 and I think sitting here I myself as well as I would say the board engineer have recommended when it comes to shopping center 10x 20 is what we would recommend I mean there are other uses in which we've been this board has been a little leavey about it so having said that I mean again pushing the building back making 10x 20 somehow the parking stall fit wouldn't that be more less substantial impact on the Zone plan and make making a building more complying well actually uh I did think about the parking space size and I do agree that there should be a combination of parking space sizes and and because the there'll be a mix of different uses not all commercial uses are are the same not all require the the 10 by by 20 space when I was looking at this uh development I think the the row of parking that's along the front the front uh of the um uh buildings I believe those definitely should be 10 byx 20 mhm I I I agree with you okay those that come around the sides where you have employees and and other uses and and I think those at 9 by8 are are more than adequate but I think along the front I do agree that we when we if we get approval we should come back and show the 10 by the 10 by 18s along along the front Okay so again going back like if the board is looking at the use and looking at use as is provided um they're making these suggestions that this type of use is fitting in this area and is having less substantial impact on the Zone plan and the master plan which is what you know the board has to decide their opinion on so the the way the site has been presented Can it have all these multiple uses and still function you know with less substantial impact the second question I'm unsure what the substantial impact is the the way this is so what I'm getting back to is you could have met the conditions of the NC Zone the couple of others I understand the maximum lot area is something that couldn't have been but in terms of front yard parking requirement in terms of setback requirements with you at the front yard parking the way the properties you're still going to probably if you push the buildings farther back you would still have to get a a substantial amount of the parking much more than 20% in the front yard well you'll have all that Upland area at the back in the R30 Zone to put your parking in well even so but that would not be uh conducive for uh commercial development though all right okay um I think I've made my point um the other question in terms of the outdoor um you know we heard about the um the light industrial and the contractor usage that will be there um we I mean I would let the board members decide but in terms of understanding um we we are imagining commercial vehicles like say the electrician or plumbers storing their vehicles on site I'm glad you testified because that was going to be my question regarding outdoor storage um you're going to have a neighborhood commercial which may potentially have 18 tenants and with all types of uses that's per permitted in neighborhood commercial I understand on paper the traffic testimony is this is least amount of traffic generating and neighborhood commercial is more intense but you the other testimony I heard from the Traffic Engineers there's going to be only one Ingress into the site and there going to be two two egresses on the northernly portion of the site right with a left turn and a right turn didn't I hear that correctly the county has suggested that I I I think there's going to be two points of in Ingress there still going to be yes yes yes yeah um then maybe I heard it from yeah I I believe you did okay full movement driveway here in and egress there'll be um Ingress here egress here and wasn't there a discussion about a left egress also over there there was okay because because what Scott talked about was the fact that they're not going to allow a left turn in heading south mhm because the BR let's see where the stream is right there here it is here's the Bridge what what the county is saying is there's insufficient distance here to create a left turn lane in so the left turn will occur here at the southern end but what he's saying is there's no there should this pork chop Island will be eliminated what when they were talking with the county and that there'll be the ability to turn north and to turn left because he was saying that there's more than enough s dist do you want your traffic professional to come up and explain this or uh well it's the same it's the same testimony I heard I'm not saying you're not doing a good job Mark but you're referring to ins and outs lefts and rights and guys got the wheel partially again Scott kenel as far as the Northerly access the pork chop type Island would remain based on my testimony what would be provided is a right turn Ingress and then the design of that Island permits left turn ESS and right turn egress so the only movement that' be prohibited is traffic coming from the north would not be allowed to make a left turn into the site at the Northerly driveway all left turns would occur at the southernly driveway and the reason for that is if we had a left turn movement into the site in Northway driveway the county wanted a a dedicated left turn lanane that requires widening and we don't have the room to provide the proper pavement Transitions and widening because of the bridge to the north to accommodate a dedicated left turn lane at the Northerly driveway so the only movement that's prohibited the northly driveway is left turn southbound left turn Ingress okay Mr chairman thank thank yes Mr I hear two different testimonies now um you're saying at the Northerly driveway um allows left turn egress correct I heard before it was a right in right out when I testified I corrected what Sharie had testify to based on the plans show a right in right out well it shows a right turn arrow but the island as designed can accommodate a left turn movement out of the site it is a pork chop design that accommodates left and right turn erress I'll save my comments when we get to my report thank you thank you Mark I was not the only one chairman I have to correct myself uh I apologize to the board and the public actually actually the the the Board of Education property is not its own residential it's PCD planned office commercial Development Across the street so that means 65 ft would not be required it would be just a 25 ft which I believe we we can accommodate thank you I I I I apologize for the confusion so L you should pay attention to what the zoning says because it's PCD I I apologize to everyone I I had it in my head it was U the residential I apologize so so the requirement is not the 65 ft it would be the the smaller uh buffer so the 65 ft would be from residential Zone which is going through the property but again like the question stays staying within the parameters of the zoning ordinance the site could meet those requirements you could now push the building in front still not have parking there and put the parking at the back well you could technically put the parking in the back but it would not be good design it would be uh inap because now what you're doing is you're creating much farther distances for the uh um uh customers to go to to the uh commercial establishments and they would go be going through the the the what I call the operational loading area to get into the um uh into the uh uh commercial area and in the back remember this is neighborhood commercial neighborhood commercial is for quick turnover um and a and not long-term shopping so having the parking concentrated around the sides and the front are ideal for neighborhood commercial as opposed to just fitting in in following the um roly following the uh the the ordinance in this case you have to look at the uh context of the property and how it's shaped so I I believe the way Sharif laid it out is is a a superior design and also the fact that we we only need the 25 foot buffer which I believe we can meet and therefore we should be able to uh meet all of the conditions except the F the 5 acre requirement and the the 20% parking in the in the front we're still going to end up with more than that to accommodate the property okay I I just don't want to keep be laboring the point again the if the visibility was the issue the building could have been moved to the front and the parking could have been met okay anyway um the other testimony I've heard I just want to make it clear that that re really when you're looking at particular uses you really do have to put it into context and and and make sure that how the the regulations are applied to make sure a commercial development successful because I've seen too many times where commercial developments have been shoehorned into the um regulations but the regulations caused uh difficulty with the operations and and those those commercial developments struggle and so I think what Sharie has come up with is um a very reasonable layout that that can accommodate the the commercial and and contribute toward the success of that that the development the other um item again I don't remember the testimony by which expert but one point was made about outdoor eating establishments I just want to put it on record that's not not permitted in NC Zone it's only fully enclosed eating establishments that would be permitted so um the outdoor Plaza and its seating area wouldn't be and if that's something that's contemplated a use variance would again be required um in terms of um sorry Mr chairman Just One Last Question um um now for the um Warehouse Flex space um the testimony was given this is by a Tradesman that's being occupied um I'm not very clear but you can correct me but is commercial vehicle storage permitted it's an R30 Zone I don't think so that's permitted so that's something I'm sorry say say again uh commercial vehicle storage because testimony was given some of them will have commercial vehicle stor on Prop so are we applying for that right now cuz that is R3 part of the use well when you describe the use the use will be for The Artisans the the contractors uh that's the use and and and uh part of their use is storing or parking their commercial vehicle uh that's associated with with uh with the light industrial building So currently uh I believe there are five tenants shown are we expecting five commercial vehicles or are we expecting more than that just for the record uh that's a good question I really really don't know because um generally what happens when you have the commercial vehicles you have the employee come they get into the truck and then they swap out the uh the the the uh commercial vehicle I mean they they swap out the the their their car or truck with uh with with a commercial vehicle and then when they return then they they leave they park the truck and then they leave in their own uh passenger vehicle yeah I'm I'm very I'm very aware I think the board members are very aware try to put a number on them it's going to be limited to uh I mean these are small spaces so um I I don't want to box in how many uh commercial vehicles will be but I mean you certainly could could limit them I mean we really don't want uh a fleets there not going to be fleets here of you know 20 vehicles or anything like that I wouldn't want want to see them there either mhm um I'll let the board members uh Ponder on that uh in terms of the rest of our uh memo I know Mr Sharif you did testify that the Landscaping is very conceptual but we did have some comments on that I'm assuming you'll be willing to work with uh um our um team in terms of developing the Landscaping provided the board looks at this absolutely permitted use and the similar thing about signage I think um it's it's a permitted one facade sign and I believe it will depend on the number of tenants you might be seeking a bulk variance at that point correct okay um that's it Mr chairman for now thank you Mark will jump on to you now thank you Mr chairman um I'm going to continue uh we our planner left off uh I agree with her on all her comments and I think uh uh the word that M you might have been missing was a Village Center design neighborhood commercial requires a Village Center design now there was testimony that said that this this shopping center is similar to all the other development on Applegarth Road which frankly is not true the uh there's two commercial strip shopping centers at the Northern end that are in excess of 30 plus years old all the other commercial development has been developed with the Village Center Concept in mind and following what our our planner has said by eliminating the uh the light industrial space and and rearranging the neighborhood commercial and pushing it back you can meet our buffers and you can set up and meet the village commercial I'm sorry the Village Center design at the NC Zone uh contemplates and requires I don't think we need a reply Mark that's a com from you as our professional the board will take that under advisement you can continue you know um with regard to it was mentioned that um that setting up pushing the commercial back may require customers to walk a lot further to get to the retail So based on the existing layout I I mean the the warehouse in the back requires 38 spots parking spots so it appears that a lot of the parking area in the rear and all the way in the back of the this property is for the retail operation which would require pedestrians to walk you know in excess of 4 or 500 ft to get to uh the front of the building well first of all you you you heard uh testimony from Mr kennel about the the uh parking requirements of being um higher than what the uh uh industry standard is and so there really could be a reduction in the number of parking and also you would have parking in the rear for the employees of the commercial not not those occupying the customer spaces that are on the sides and the front so um I don't think it's 4 or 500 ft of walking because um the parking here here is separated by I don't know what is this 25 30 ft uh and then parking uh 18 and 18 so you're under 100 ft right here and the parking back here would be for the light industrial a lot and and these would also have the ability to have parking for the light industrial so really this is the parking that's important for the for the res uh for the customers I don't I don't know if there's any four or 500 ft of of parking distance other than if we were start putting them down in this point down here and and the point is not so much four or 500 feet the point is convenience for the NC Zone and the NC Zone doesn't call for the Village um concept the master plan does and if you look at the master plan the master plan calls for residential over over U of commercial to create that that Village effect and that's right in the master plan I don't know if this uh if we were to come in here and propose The Village Center because the zoning doesn't match the master plan so so if we were to come in and and do do the village concept we would have to come in for a use variance because it doesn't allow that residential above the commercial so um you're before the board for a use variant for what you are proposing yeah but that that's different you you raise the Village Center concept The Village concept is in the master plan but it it's not implemented in the zoning ordinance so the zoning ordinance is what we have to go by if we were to come in and meet with the master plan we would have to come back with residential over the top of commercial it is in that those are conflicting policy points in in in your documents okay so Mark please continue thanks um with regard to outdoor eating is there is there is it proposed or is it not proposed at this point cuz I didn't hear an answer to it's a concept that the architect indicated that there was a Terrace area between the two buildings and it could be used for that purpose but there's not a declaration that that is the purpose it was introduced as that area exists that could we heard clearly that it's not a permitted use okay um I agree uh with regard to the buffers the buffers could be uh could be met uh you continue parking stall sizes ordinance requires 10 x 20 it's a retail use uh the 10t width is uh is I believe necessary for the retail uses out here uh with regard to the traffic report the I have concerns with the traffic report um with regard to the traffic counts it appears they were done in November of 23 I believe yes in June that's correct so we were retained to within a month of when we did our traffic counts so that's how we've been working on this project thanks so I don't believe that uh that takes into account the full volume of the traffic in monre this area is uh primarily seniors um right right in the center of our Senior Communities and you know as we know they uh many of the seniors go to Florida for the winter so I don't know that that's taken into account the uh the full volumes and uh I'd like to see something done at a more appropriate time of the year when excuse me correct it was October October 17th so I mean I know know it's it's a it's a transition period where people do have residences down south will leave but they're generally not um part of the peak hour traffic generation the commuter periods I mean based on our experience the Senior Communities generally have their peak activities from 10:00 a.m. to 300 p.m. um and they in the hours that we analyzed are the the highest times and that's usually attributed to commuter traffic thank you could you confirm those hours please confirm the hours that we conducted our counts right yes they are from 8 a.m. to 10 10: a.m. on uh October 17th and from 400 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. and then on Saturday October 14th 11:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. I mean 1: p.m. thanks um with regard to the Ingress and egress uh circulation um so you know putting aside the senior traffic counts that that and your testimony tractor trailers you're going to have tractor trailers enter in the site um I don't know how compatible that is with retail operations when you have uh many people coming in here to use the 18 Retail stores and then you have trucks coming in whether to dump trucks tractor trailers um I don't see that being compatible concerns with the egress leaving the site left turn movements out of both driveways um yes there was a meeting at the county or with the county uh over the summer and I believe there may have been another meeting after that that I wasn't part of but um left turn movements I know you um you mentioned line of sight is over 500 ft we have a traff signal right there that's closer than 500 ft to that first driveway and someone either turning left onto Applegarth North or right onto Applegarth North and tractor trailer is trying to pull out of that southern egress to make a left turn um that seems problematic to me uh also there's three lanes of movement on Apple guard South you have three lanes of traffic so anyone pulling out making a left turn if they wanted to go West on uh on Station Road they would be essentially Crossing you know two lanes to get to that third lane so so I think that whole circulation and turning movements we need to be Revisited with the county and I'd like to be part of that conversation traffic signal um right now that traffic signal doesn't have any protected left turn lane left turn arrows um um it it's problematic now with that situation and adding movements coming out of this Southern driveway making left turns onto Apple guard South I think just adds to that problem of not having protected um left turn Lanes uh with a protected Arrow so I'd like to see that upgraded and and and with regard to all the variances listed on the cover page are we are are we seeking any of those tonight or saying no to all those variances the bulk variances do match the the building layout that is before you but we're not asking the board to consider the bulk variance relief this evening we're asking that the bulk variance relief be part of the site plan design we anticipate that there'll be some evolution in the design and and that would include the signage yes chairman I have nothing further okay so I know the board members have a lot of questions but I also want to take into consideration we have residents here that also want to get their views out so as far as board members if we have a question please feel free to ask if you heard the same question from one of our board members please don't ask it again so we can conserve some time so we can get the public up here um I have to afford them more time than I have to afford you I can control you better than them so again if we have a question ask it if you heard it already please don't ask it again so we can get to our point so at this point I'll open it to the board and we'll go one person at a time Whoever has a question we'll start right down on the end Mr Jeff okay uh I have two questions first yeah P talk to your mic and two questions first of all I don't want to repeat what Mr resim moit said but I have the same concerns about truck traffic and the eress onto Applegarth um I I'm I don't fully understand the purpose of the flex building uh particularly in regard to the fact that you mention that there are some loading docks to the proposed Flex building which suggest that there could be very TR uh very large truck uh traffic into this Center can you please elaborate on that yes as far as truck traffic there's going to be a variety of of truck traffic even if we look at the retail uh it would be considered you have box trucks and some of the retailers depending on the the nature of the retailer could be served by um tractor trailers so even the retail itself would have tractor trailer activity uh and then as far as the industrial building the site plan or the variance plan depicts two loading zones on the east side uh but it's expected that given the size of the industrial building and the number of potential tenants that the number of tractor trailers would be a limited basis I I I would project uh no more than four or five on a daily basis and that's probably on the high side but again we don't have tenants so I can't give you a specific number but based on my experience with this size of of an industrial building uh just under 21,000 Square ft uh I would not expect it to be a high tractor trailer activity be more or less box trucks and panel Vans uh based on the intended end users okay one more quick question um regarding the retail establishments do you envision a rear entrance to the stores or just the front entrance my understanding is all the customer access would be from the West Side Applegarth side of the buildings the the the rear would be for service activity deliveries and services won't be available to customers correct thank you Mr Cole one quick question um which is why I asked that the time time frame uh it seems that 2: to 4: especially with the two schools we have up the street is a very heavy traffic time and I think you ought to take that into consideration I'll review other data I have but my understanding for this section of alpar Road the commuter traffic and the intensity generally represents the highest but I will review other historical data we got a lot of lot of mothers and fathers picking up their kids got a lot of school buses understood I've been there you sit in line for a while I understand just yeah just I was on the school board when we opened Applegarth and at certain instances we still have to they have to put police on that road because we have so many buses so doing it from 4: to 600 and 8 to 10 and actually skipping when the buses would be on the road is is incorrect so I have a pretty big problem with your sample size for that um this is where the bar was right next to it there's a impromptu Lake I guess where all the water pulls and when it rains it floods out into Applegarth I'm assuming you're taking that into consideration where that water's going to go I I have intimate knowledge I live right there so it's like a detention Basin right next to the bar yes um so I I think it used to be called Green Gables right so we all had lunch there I guess okay so um the the pond that you were talking about is the one is showing in Blue on this that's the one you're talking about that's the the one right next to where the building is now the dilapidated building not down the road from it no there's uh no that's the only one out there uh and you could see it on the area to here we go I I get you I said it was impromptu when it rains okay so what what what's out there right now so that is regulated by uh the state of New Jersey as far as flood Hazard and wetlands the spillway you could see the brakes in the uh the tree line that's a Spillway so when it gets flooded it spills over into the cranberry Brook so historically it's been that way when if this gets developed all the runoff from this area here will be going into the storm water facilities for water quality recharge and controlling all the storm events and then from there it's not going to go back there again it just is going to go into the flood haardt area I just don't want don't want to flood Jerry's place out yep uh traffic I see that at that light every day in traffic that traffic backs up way past where your Southern entrance is going to be you're going to have a mess because you're going to have all these cars wanting to go straight from that left lane which is backed up when the bus is there it's probably backed up to where the the river the stream is and you're going to have these people trying to pull out it's going to be crazy so I I actually when I was thinking about I thought you should reverse those two but I know that's too narrow on the other side so you're not going to be able to do that I agree trying to make a left out of there would be so my son got into a massive accident last year at that L total his car it's dangerous and if you now have people pulling out across two lanes of traffic you're going to have issues there um signage so theoretically we're proposing 24 no I'm going to cut you off that's going to be under a site plan we're here for a use variance okay that this is why want the AR the the design to go up with the with the with the buildings it's irrelevant to this application at this point so I am I appreciate it but it plays no it's there's no value here with that okay all right um light industrial mechanics welders I guess things like that would be there no um this is what we call uh another term for that is the uh um mini warehouses so we're not expecting mechanics or welders they're not going to be that and that could be also in the resolution if we get an approval we can put condition in the resolution on who moves in and that's why we okay now that's why you were saying the tractor trailers would be coming in right so and that's another thing wait let me go back to that so the Township's trying to cut down on track to trailer traffic on Applegarth and you're basically saying we want to have track trailer traffic on Apple Earth look there was talks about tractor trailers um our design only allows WB 50 which is a lower truck than a tractor Trail we're not expecting I already talked to the client we're not expecting tractor trailers we can put signs at just no tractor trailer so let's just get tractor trailers I got you yeah responding to what you're yes yeah your side testified to right and as far as the the driveways it seems like we're I take a vote tonight so we can go back again to the county I wouldn't say that okay sorry but we could um we could go back to the county have a second meeting and talk about the driveways again and voice your concern as well as M Mr uh Mark resm was concern okay so the light Industrials small tractor trailers I'm just saying they would come in they would drive through the retail areas right retail parking through another retail area to get into this back I'm just clarifying through the retail areas correct yeah yeah show show them how it work so I would um use the mic please where we at with the exhibits A4 A4 so I will um I have WB 50 truck turning exhibits there will be A5 A4 A4 I'm sorry I so we go okay [Applause] [Applause] so um the answer to your question is yes spent a lot of time to get a yes it's just as good so the public can so the public can see the exhibit too no l oh here you go nice very nice there you go so uh that's our intention so uh what we the truck that will be using onsite is a WB 50 it's not a tractor trailer so we can put signs at the end there no tractor tra and we have done it in town before but that is the route that you see is coming from behind the retail that's one way making a swing and proceeding to the area all the way in the back and backing up into again we not this is not a site plan this is just a used variance we're not really sure if it's going to be a loading docks or just roll up doors on great we're not there yet so oh thank you yeah no this is good if there's more than two trucks where would they queue up so we sh in two to comply with the ordinance but in reality most likely be it's one user one truck at a time okay but if you had five businesses worst case scenario all five have a truck delivery at the same time where do they queue up uh so you did best case scenario see what I'm doing I'm doing worst case scenario well yeah I mean we we have plenty of room in the back and you can see the employees where they're going to be parking uh again this is a very light use we don't anticipate that all these parking spaces will be used uh based on the experience and what we have seen out there uh but there is a plenty of room in the back along the building uh in the area by the drive up here it there's a quite a bit of a room in the back but would be two trucks there at the same time I don't think so this is very light use form your own opinion that's what I mean I truck's a truck form your own opinion I mean by that logic I could say there's 55 trucks queued up it's my opinion just like it's your opinion so okay so they'll queue up either the next to the employee parking or in the retail back Lots that's what they'll queue up I'm just trying to get this straight not in the retail back area but in the back Cur line all the way at the bottom yes okay but that's included in the retail counts though those spots uh I'm not sure about that I think this is all part of the uh light uh I think the the spaces in the front but I can confirm that and next time get you a better answer what five axle trucks this is a uh Tire to tire is about only 35 ft five axle trucks I'm not sure about that is it how many probably delving into to the weeds here but as far as tractor trailers there's generally three sizes your wb40 which probably your 4 axle WB 50 which we've shown here will be five axle and then you have your WB 62 which is generally associated with the warehouses that you see in the area those are still five axle but they have a longer trailer five axle then okay correct um I would if I had my you know how I hate this minimum parking space thing I think we should enforce our rules um but then I was trying to do some math I think that'll put you under the amount of spaces you'll need so that's why I'm guessing you want the the more narrow spaces um especially you're saying for retail and if you're saying you're going to have commercial trucks in the back there's no way those commercial trucks are sitting in a 9ft space um I park at Liberty Park and Ride every day which are actually I think 8ot spaces they're awful those Plumbing trucks take two spots so you're going to have to account for that especially if you're going to have Plumbing trucks or box trucks or whatever you're going to have in the back um I'm going to agree with our experts it seems like this is a little crammed in um that's my opinion I'm done any other the board members okay before we go to the public I have one question Mr Pete when did your client obtain this property our C our client obtained this property a long time ago he's the the princip has changed the entity that owns it at least once I can find out when he first purchased it just one moment sure 2005 Mr Patel who is the principal of this entity has owned the property since 2005 and at the time he purchased it I'm assuming he understood that majority of it was Wetlands correct yes he did and did anyone one force him to design this this full design to squeeze the maximum in that is triggering all these use variances so if we hypothetically remove the commercial the flex however you want to abbreviate it we removed it everything gets backed up you have ample parking you have enough buffer would that be suitable well nobody forced him to do anything with we brought so okay so these all these triggers of all these variances and everything are triggered because we're trying to put an exorbitant amount on a piece of land correct Mr chairman that that that's an opinion that will be rendered that's let me answer the question please sure this is a zoning Board of adjustment and an applicant can present V applications with variances but he has to justify each of those variances the goal of the applicant is to do so we're recording the concerns of the board the concerns of the board are signaling to us the sense of the board with regard to the relief that's being requested before we conclude this evening we are going to ask the board for an opportunity for an adjournment so that we can explore revisions to the plan responsive to the concerns that we've heard this evening okay well before we get to that I have any I have no further questions uh I do want to get to the public why will be very brief uh Mr chairman I agree wholeheartedly in your comment about again it's an opinion it's it's an opinion so use the microphone it's an opinion it's an opin my opinion is exactly what yours is thank you duly noted I just want to comment that the Village Center um concept I if you hadn't disc discussed it probably should be discussed okay being there's no more questions here from the board we're going to ask anyone in the public who's been sitting very patiently you need to come forward you're going to come up here you're going to be sworn in you're going to State your your view your opinion and we'll go from there so at this time excuse me anyone in the public wish to come forward please do don't be shy there no one's going to bite you we welcome everyone you can be second raise your right hand sir you s any testimony provide is the truth all truth and nothing but the truth yes I do if you could state your name your last name and give us your address please to the record Charles sto di i e r r o 404 spots with Gravel Hill Monro Township I I just have a couple questions um what exactly is the applicant asking for because after listening to this testimony from all the professionals I'm I'm a little confused and um I'm asking what exactly are they asking for because the attorney said they're not not asking for any use use variance bulk variances but when I look at the plan it it's designed with undersized parking spaces it's designed under with the buffers that are that are not as our planner said and our engineer said so when you look at a plan that's that the board is being asked to vote on and the public is is asking you know for the for you guys to make the right decision and also for them to get the right their right uh property you know uh built the way they want it um the design that I see has so many variances I'm trying to what is the applicant actually asking for tonight I heard use variance but what is it okay I'm going to let I can I can answer or Mr P can answer because Mr P represents the applicant so sure the request is that the board and and this we're not asking the board to vote this evening we're asking for the opportunity to be responsive to concerns but the application presented for the board's consideration has two variances a D1 for the industrial building and a D3 for the commercial building we've identified the plans that are before the board are demonstrative of the plan but we're we're indicating that the bulk variance relief would be part of the site plan application and not part of the D1 and D3 okay so the way I understand that um so the residential R30 property it sounds like that's why we're here to try to get that zoned from R30 to Neighborhood commercial because as our planner said if you push the building back into that zone then you can meet the 20% requirements and all the comments that she had in her her uh her letters that went to the developer and also went to their professionals and and if you're asking for a D1 and a D three as the attorney said then what I don't understand is why are all of these other variances the 9 by1 18s I personally have a problem with that I have a pickup truck so and I and we all shopped in shopping centers and when we go in the shopping center during holiday times it's really a big problem or during snow when there's snow piles that limit us and when I'm sitting here listening for the last couple hours I really think they're professionals were not on the same page and the same with the plans just listening to it for many years are coming to these meetings and I just I just want to see exactly what are what are what are they asking for and I I can't as as some of our board members put up some great questions I just don't see it and I'm it's their job to to try to explain what they want and I I'm confused because sitting here I'm I'm watching it's like putting 5 lb in a one PB bag and and maybe maybe they should go back and redesign it without any variances or or meeting the requirements that our ordinance that we laid it out and our master plan laid it out so that's all I want to say because I just I'm confused thank you yes ma'am please come forward you could raise your right hand for me you SAR any testimony you provide as the truth the I do state your name spell your last name and give us your address please for the record Lydia Gabby last name g a l a bi 12 North disb Hill Road Monroe New Jersey listening to the applications today I have a few questions um with all these proposed projects just the two that were proposed today they are within a mile and a half of each other has a collective traffic study been done to show the impact of traffic of those multiple projects on the neighborhood on the area um so that's my first question um we already mentioned that traffic studies were done at times where the schools were not in session so can these traffic studies be done with first of all the collective impact of these projects that's the most important thing for the residents of this neighborhood and inclusive of school times when school staron ends I do think one of your concerns were addressed by our engineer as far as reevaluating the traffic studies with respect to the other applicant that applicant was already approved that is closer down to Route 33 there's no school there there's really nothing it's past the Federal Road point so at that point it's even past the senior center so I think yes you may have some validity to that but I do think at that point we are out of the area you may be pertaining to the traffic light on Apple gon 33 but that's not going to impact the traffic on uh at this within one and a half miles of each other these are just the projects that were proposed today there may be others but the other project was already approved I understand and they didn't require a traffic study because what they're doing is minimal this is on a larger scale and the traffic study was supplied because of the fact it's on a larger scale so that's already water under the bridge we need to concentrate on this application their application has no bearing on the other application so we're we're right here paying attention to this one understood um relating to the unstudied tributory to the uh cranberry Brook Mr Ali mentioned that it will be studied if I understood correctly um when should the results be expected and how will the results of that study impact this application the study was completed it's it was a flood Hazard determination and the flood Hazard determination has been issued by the state and the plans that are before the board reflect that flood Hazard determination for the tributory for the flood Hazard elements on this property all of them so all of them inclusive of the cranberry Brook and the tributory all of them okay if that's something you wish to see you can make arrangements here at the township I'm sure they filed all the appropriate pay Pap work and it should be on file okay um the application also mentions the office Flex commercial Light Industry um contractors were mentioned but what is actually defined as Light Industry and I can there be a confirmation that only hc1 non storage occupancies will be tenants right now it's just a visual conception nothing is approved they can't do anything so they're projecting what they would like to do right doesn't mean they're going to do it but yes they would still have to come back again if we say you could use it they may come back and we may say that now building is now one building it shrink the size or we're not approving the site plan so there's still a lot more to this application that needs to come before this board right but a lot of things were mentioned today that are now of concern and that's why the attorney alluded to the fact that they may ask this board to hold off on a vote tonight I could just step in Mr chairman I think it might be beneficial Mr Pape is here he's hearing the concerns to have a list of those businesses which would be listed as permitted in that rear building should that building still be part of the applicant plan so that there is an understanding of what will be there and if it's not listed as being there it will not be able to be there that would address yes um in many instances last question in many instances this proposal mentioned the architecture and how beautiful it is um pretty things are usually very highly combustible um and that includes the use of ephas and ACM MCM panels um being so close to residential area and the woods that were mentioned many many times um will measures be required or taken to select low combustibility or non-combustible materials in this project I think that's going to fall under the jurisic of the building department that's not our jurisdiction to determine what material they use our jurisdiction is height width where they're building it how much ground they're taking up as far as what they're using that's going to go to construction okay I know it's not what you want to hear but we don't we don't build the buildings you know well Mr chairman if I can can just jump in sure they'll have to meet all the construction codes that are required by our construction department so so there's code requirements um so I have to construction approve everything once they if we move forward they need to get approval from the construction Department with whatever material they using to erect this building understood thank you you're welcome anyone else from the public wishing to be heard seeing there's none I'm going to make a motion to close the public portion do I have a motion so move second all in favor I Mr Pape did you want to make a statement before we proceed Mr chair yes there's been considerable comments from your professionals those comments included some guidance and Direction there been considerable comments from board members that also consider that included guidance and direction there's been a request for additional information including a new traffic report we would appreciate the board adjourning the application to the meeting I conferred with the professionals to a minimum of two months forward to provide an opportunity to work on the plans and to have a TRC with your staff before returning to the board so that is your applicant's request of the board this evening so you're requesting March yes sir 2 March 25 okay I I I think I think we're going to have to require notice because there is a some concern with the public um what happened oh under the exploration okay so you're not going to have to notice again whoever was here who has any issues with respect to this application is here and those who are truly interested can go to the municipal building and seek the information it did file we're falling within the guidelines so we're not going to require re noticing okay thank you so everyone in the public be aware that they're not Ren noticing and we're shooting for March 28th for the next meeting 25th oh sorry 25 March 25 so jot that down in your notes we'll be back here with the same application picking up where we left off want to go to meeting oh it's January yeah yeah and that will only be for the use variants we still the use variant yes um so thank you Mr chair the application is carried to your March 25th you requesting it to be carried I did make that request the date to Okay so do we need to approve this to you a board okay as long are there any objections for them carrying this application seeing there's none it can be carried to March 25th I thank you we'll review the comments of the board we'll provide the transcript of this evening's um hearing to the board we look forward to seeing you in March thank you thank you just want to remind everyone as you're leaving we still have some work to do so please be quiet thank you okay board members memorialization application ba52 39-23 NJ cars do I have a motion oh sorry motion to approve the resolution second all in favor I Lou abstains and I think Gary OB thingss yes um I guess you're here for the extension of the solar and Mr sh okay so let's get that on the table now um how do you want to handle this are you going to take this I can take this if you want um Mr chairman um the board did receive correspondence from Mr P on behalf of the applicant uh this was an application um for uh multiple I guess elements of relief but one of which was a minor subdivision approval um the applicant has requested a extension of time and I'm just trying to find my resolution that indicates where we want through March excuse me through May 30th 2025 of the time to Pro uh perfect the minor subdivision um which was granted by the board and memorialized by written resolution on April 25th 2023 Mr Pap and his correspondents indicated that the applicant has experienced some delay in obtaining the additional approvals necessary for them to pursue this this so the court does have discretion to grant that um and should it choose to do so and again it was an extension through May 30th 2025 to protect to perfect the minor subdivision approv and I Mr chair the only thing I would add to that is we did recently complete the approval process for the the balance we're in a position where we can perfect okay uh do any board members have any objections to holding this off no all in favor yes we I said to to to extend it to 5:30 why don't we have a motion in a second on this okay okay make the motion there's a motion I have a second okay Madam Secretary roll call please M car yes that's all right Mr M yes Mr busman yes Mr tany yes Mr jaffy yes Mr yes chairman L yes Mr chairman LF typically in these these types of applications which are ministerial I get request from the applicant in order that they can memorialize the same night I did prepare a resolution memorialize an extension through May 30th 2025 in anticipation of the board's action if I could ask you to move that as well okay do we have a motion to Mo to move the memorial ization second second all right third okay roll call please M yes Mr Master yes Mr B yes Mr yes Mr jaff yes yes yes Mr chairman board members board professionals thank you all good night you're welcome good night thank you okay public portion anyone in the public wishing to be heard seeing there's none need a motion to close public move second all in favor excellent any correspondences no motion to adjourn second all in favor we're out of here