Oops. Good evening everyone. Welcome to the November 25th, 2025 regular meeting of Montlair Township Council. This regular meeting of the council is being broadcast live on channel 34. It's
streaming live on Montlair TV34 YouTube channel and it's available on demand and can and will be rebroadcast. This meeting is called pursuant to the provisions of the open public meeting act. The meeting was included in the
revised annual notice of the meeting schedule as set forth in resolution R25-038 adopted by the township council at its regular meeting of February 2525 advertised to the official newspaper on March 6, 2025 posted on the bulletin
boards outside of the municipal building and has remained continuously posted. In addition, a copy of the revised annual notice is and has been available to the public and is on file in the office of our township clerk. Please stand for the
pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Thank you. Um, thank you, Deputy Madame Clerk, for joining us this evening. Please, uh, will you do the roll call? >> Deputy Mayor Anderson, >> here. >> Councelor Birmingham, absent. Councelor Tomato, >> present. >> Councelor Harrison, >> here. >> Councelor Toller,
>> good evening. Present. >> Good evening. Councelor Williams, absent. Mayor Baskerville, >> present. Thank you. Uh at this point in time, we're going to um the council will move into the executive session. The purpose of the executive session is to
discuss redevelopment and also we will have discussions about uh township attorney and possibly contract negotiations. So we're going to ask anyone that's a member of the public or not the immediately involved with this to remove yourself from the chambers.
And we look forward to joining you at 7 pm. Thank you so much. Motion to um adjourn into the executive session. >> Second. >> All in favor?
>> Opposed? Abstained. Thank you. Thank you. I'd like to make a motion, please, that we adjourn from the executive session and resume the uh regularly scheduled um township council meeting of 25 2025.
>> Uh second. >> All in favor? >> I I >> Any opposed? Abstensions. Okay. Uh good evening everyone. As you come in, please if you'd like to speak, if you would sign now because we are going
to go directly into the um public comments whenever you're ready. So person number one can come down. Lord, give me patience. Give me joy. Good evening everyone. Um, can the
person that has the number one ticket please come? We're ready for you. And thank you all for joining us. The rest of you can sign in, please. And then take your seat as you're ready. We're going to move forward with the meeting. Person number one, our guest.
>> No, thank you so much. Welcome. >> Anybody has a ticket, please. >> Good evening. I'm Suzanne Atman. I'm speaking exclusively as a Monontlair resident, a humane society policy leader, and a master gardener. I'm going
to talk fast. I'm again raising concerns about the proposed deer count grant on the agenda. I was hoping and expecting we would have some meetings to discuss, bring in other perspectives, including the Humane Society, who have offered their expertise working with communities in this area. Why haven't we met? I had
a great talk with the Banzo leader yesterday and they learned things they hadn't understood about the complexity of this issue and they agreed that discussions around it are important. Um, emails don't suffice. I want to protect our environment and people's yards just as much much as anyone. I've dedicated
years to just to this cause, but I want us to approach this issue correctly in a scientifically valid objective way. We are not clear why we need a one-time drone count and what purpose it will serve and what decisions it will inform. Exactly. That needs to be clear. Is the
goal to understand population abundance? A one-time drone survey cannot reliably establish population abundance. Scientific standards require multi-season adequately replicated sampling to estimate density. Single
night counts are often misinterpreted and historically have been used to justify actions communities did not intend. Is it to understand abundance of deer in our parks? Again, deer are not static like trees. They move through time and space and require more rigorous
studies than this current grant application supports. What will a one-time snapshot provide that we cannot already address now with proven non-lethal impactbased strategies that address complaints and concerns about deer? They are numerous and proven. Many
are free to implement. Second, accepting a fish and wildlife funding raises a conflict of interest. The AY's mission emphasizes game management and herd reduction. It has a documented preference for lethal methods and much of its funding is from hunting permits
and related. If fish and wildlife funds the count and influences interpretation, residents cannot assume neutrality. While drone count contra contractors can be purely data collectors and that is what we want, many operate within fish
and wildlife networks. Another reason to slow down and ensure independence before proceeding. Third, uh the fish and wildlife grant application itself shows bias. Its questions are framed toward lethal deer management and it includes items like free deer culling warning
signs and a checkbox asking whether the municipality plans future deer management. Monontlair checked yes. That and other areas are troubling. Just because we're offered a small grant doesn't mean we have to use it. So I urge us again to pause, get answers to
these questions, have a few meetings where discussion can happen with key parties, make a plan that benefits all sides, including our gardens, including our trees, parks, wildlife, and deer. Take a moment before proceeding. We can decide that tonight. Thank you.
>> Thank you very much. Next guest, please. Guest number two, please. >> Good evening. >> My name is >> Is it green? >> Okay, great. Hi, good evening. My name is Annette Batson. Um, I'm a Monontlair resident. uh humane society policy
leader and founder of Humane Montlair. Some of you have seen me before up here. Um our mission is to advocate for animal welfare and connect the dots to our values of compassion, social justice, public health, and environmental conservation. Humane McLar's worked closely in the past with uh council to
pass meaningful welfare, animal welfare policies such as prohibiting the sale of puppy mills uh puppy mill dogs, strengthening standards for backyard chickens, and opposing the cruel trophy hunting contests. These efforts have demonstrated Monontlair's leadership locally and statewide, helping
Monontlair earn a better city for pets designation and a two $20,000 grant. Many of us have uh recently learned that the council is considering a $6,000 grant from the New Jersey Fish and Wildlife Department to get conduct a drone based deer count. While this is a
small grant, the potential consequences are not. As Suzanne and others have explained, simple wildlife counting is has historically been used to justify lethal control programs, not to address real or perceived deer related concerns. The Humane Society of the US sent you a
letter stating that a single survey provides only a moment in time snapshot and can't possibly capture distinct seasonal movements or land use for deer. Relying on one snapshot as justification for lethal deer removal is incomplete and may be misleading to the community.
They go on to say, "Without a guiding principle of reducing conflicts in an ethical human way, many communities fall into a cycle of killing deer year after year without reducing conflicts, without teaching residents how to coexist with
wildlife. And in fact a with 40 years of um research behind them the humane society has said that uh deer culling has not proven uh to be the answer but the answer is conflict resolution with so that there is a peaceful coexistence
with wildlife and humans. Tonight I urge you to commit to clearly sustainable non-lethal approaches to any concerns surrounding deer. Organized killing with guns or bows, bows and arrows should never happen for any reason within our township. We need an explicit safeguard
which prevents Montlair from sliding into lethal management. The only way to do that is with an ordinance. For that reason, I'm sharing for your consideration a draft ordinance that would prohibit use of wild of lethal wildlife management methods in Montlair with narrow exceptions for true public
health emergencies. This aligns with our values, reflects best practices, and positions Montlair once again as a leader in humane policy. I hope you will consider passing such an ordinance by the end of 2025. Humane Montlair is a key stakeholder with expertise.
I respectfully ask you to pause on this resolution. Thank you for your time tonight and a happy Thanksgiving. >> Thank you. You as well. Next guest, please. Yes. >> Good evening. You guys, can everyone hear me? >> Yes.
>> Excellent. Thank you. Um, my name is Jen Cypek. I'm a proud Monontlair resident, a gardener, and >> please, what is your last name? >> Cypac. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. Um, again, I'm a proud Montlair resident, a gardener, a volunteer with Humane Montlair, and
friends of Montlair Animal Shelter. Coexisting means allowing animals to live safely while addressing conflicts with humane, innovative, and non-lethal approaches straight from our our town's website. Many of us, including myself, moved here for a nature-based urban
environment, which means really coexisting. I had to learn that myself. I have a I inherited a beautiful English garden that now is like this lovely native English garden. Um, so that we all can live peacefully together. Um, again, it's not avoiding interactions or
defaulting to lethal responses. And luckily, there's numerous ways that we can combat this, but we really haven't taken that basic proven non-lethal steps that responsible communities do before considering things like drone counts. We can install dynamic deer collision
warning signs during peak seasons and peak areas. There's there's studies in Virginia that have proven a reduction in collisions by 50% and that's just on the major roads on on like local roads. It could even be more. So feel like that's a really great option. Secondarily, there's the re-engaging with wild
neighbors um initiative which we already belong in. It's really about educating residents on coexistence um the strategies for their yards and public spaces. Um third is protecting our young trees with deer wraps and tree trunk guards. It's really an inexpensive
standard practice um that we haven't implemented for park or street trees and really then the deers are really blamed for preventative um damage. We also can address the pressures of Bonszel preserve um our only true forested park. Deer brows is definitely one of the
factors, but so is invasive um plants, soil issues, and climate impacts. Only an ecological assessment would really determine what can really assess what those drivers are, not a deer kill or a count. Um, Princeton Hydro has been an
organization that has provided solutions for that. Think that's a great option. If we take these steps, we will reduce complaints significantly. Rushing into a drone count funded by an agency with a vested interest in organized killing risks locking Montlair into decisions that do not reflect our values. They
don't reflect my values. And finally, um, it's really been it's been explained to me that the Humane Society of the United States has offered to partner with Monontlair and offer their expertise, grants, and assessments assistance in developing a more humane and effective long-term solution to
address the community's conflicts with deer. Really a a resource I really hope we embrace going forward. I really appreciate your time tonight and have a happy Thanksgiving. >> Thank you. You two. Next guest, please. Guess number four. >> Oh yeah. Sorry about that.
>> Hey Noah, >> I know. Trust me, we all need a holiday weekend, so it's a good thing Thanksgiving's coming up. >> Happy Thanksgiving to the town council and mayor Dr. Renee E. Baskerville. We really appreciate you.
>> Thank you. Happy >> I know it has been I know we're we're all grateful for you and everyone in this town. I know it has been a tough year between the schools, the deficit, and everything else that's been going on in our world. The these are frightening
times we have been living in. So, I just wanted to appreciate all you do. It's very hard work and I love everything you do. Thank you. Anyway, I'm here to speak about normally I would be speaking about um the lowering taxes issue about the
the taxes of houses in Monontlair being too high. However, um I'm here to speak tonight. I know it's not board of education meeting. I know it's a um town, but I'm going to speak about education anyway. So, as you know, um
the big picture is you graduate from high school at the end of 12th grade, but really I feel you there might as well be a ceremony in every grade because for example, you graduate first grade, you move up to second grade and you don't have the same teacher in second grade as you do in first grade. So, I was thinking the diploma should be
annually, not just in high school because of because um if you if you don't have the same teacher in second grade as you do in first grade, you might as well get a diploma then. Thank you. >> Good. Thank you. Next guest, please.
Don't start that clock yet. Um, my name is Jay Turner. I'm a longtime Montlair resident and um I'm here tonight to present a petition to down zone 260 Park Street back uh from neighborhood commercial back to R2
residential like the rest of the street. Uh there's a current proposal in with the planning board to tear down the 112y old historical house that's currently there and to build a massive modern apartment building with a pizzeria on
the ground floor. Um we we've been down this road before. 5 years ago the Westerly came in within the historic district and u built their apartment with the uh Milbourne deli on the ground floor. We the our worst fears have been
uh confirmed. The traffic increase from that has been absolutely devastating. >> In addition, the whole world of uh restaurants has changed with the advent of the smartphone. Now all these restaurants have people coming all day long. Grubhub, Uber Eats, um you know to
pick up orders and leave. Their whole model is based off getting in and out quickly. So for example, I went to Milbourne Delhi. They told me they have 400 to go orders every day. 160 at least are from these services. I went next door to Boner Montlair. They told me
they have over a hundred. So what that what does that mean? It means that half the time when I come home, I can't enter my driveway because somebody's parked there to go pick up a sandwich. If I want to exit my driveway, some of the time I can't get out. It seems like just a basic fundamental right to be able to
enter and exit your property. In addition, these people are extremely aggressive because their whole model is based off getting in and out. So, you know, um my neighbor and friend Jerry was hit. His neighbor Donna's housekeeper was hit by a car. When we
were here for the planning board meeting last time about 260 Park Street, the next day, a little girl was hit crossing the street. So, this is a major issue. I mean, uh Wong Plaza has been there for 150 years. They put a traffic light in 3 months ago. I mean, that's the canary in
the coal mine. Obviously, there's a problem. There's too much traffic there now. We don't need to throw gasoline on a fire and make it a hundred times worse. So, I'd really appreciate there's a planning meeting on Monday. If you guys would take a hard look at this, if
it can't be zoned back, there's got to be some kind of solution so that our quality of life and our safety isn't compromised uh from what it is now. >> Thank you for your time. Thank you for coming. Next guest, please.
Oops. Okay. Claire Silata, 279 Park Street. I just want to follow up on that that the traffic is nonstop. I've lived on Park Street for 38 years.
The average speed going down Park Street now, if there's not a traffic jam, which there is often, I've seen guys drive 50 miles an hour and there's nothing to stop them until they get to Belleview.
So, to introduce another 400 cars with a pizza place or what's the other one? Bagel. I I I don't understand it. I don't understand what this town feels about our neighborhood.
I mean, Montlair is made up of wonderful, wonderful neighborhoods, and I love my my neighborhood is womb to tomb. My doctor's there. Everybody's there. But now, walking is impossible. This morning, I called because the lights
aren't working right. When the light says I can walk, the little walk guy doesn't come on. It stays red. And the fact that people can come out of, you know, where all the little stores are on >> Wang, >> when they come out of that one-way
street to make a left, it's a nightmare because that same light is allowing everybody else to go. And there's been near accidents. Please talk to the crossing guard. He can tell you how bad it is. But I'm at that coffee shop every
morning at 7 a.m. and we sit outside and watch a nightmare. So I would ask you please to think about the children that are there, the women with the baby carriages, and then you're going to introduce this. And I hear that
the the gas station wants to put in some kind of 7-Eleven. I don't care what they want. I want you to represent us and what we want. We live there. >> The other night I was out on the street
and again at night they drive so fast you wouldn't believe it. It's dangerous for those of us who live there and want to use the plaza. And yes, times have changed. You have GrubHub, Uber, Door
Dash. So somehow we have to take that into account when we say yes to these things. M >> you're not saying yes to a little restaurant where people, you know, park their car in back of Wong Plaza and walk and have dinner from 7 to 9.
You're talking about literally a stream of traffic that does not stop. So please, I beg you to speak to all the planning board, whoever else is there, and ask them to represent us, the people
who pay the taxes and live there. And God help you if you give that building a tax abatement because that's not okay either. So please, please take care of us. Thank
you very much. Thank you very much. Next guest, please. Guest number seven. >> Uh good evening. My name is Anson Pope. Um, I'm just here tonight to express and I thought there was going to be a resolution uh in there for tonight's
meeting to recognize councelor Toller uh in a position of deputy mayor. I've come to support that. Um, having worked with councelor Toller on numerous fourth ward initiatives and having campaigned for her previously, I've seen her dedication firsthand. She truly epitomizes
Montlair's values and as a dedicated Mounty and lifelong resident, her service extends beyond the council, evident in her work with the Montlair mutual aid and the HO house. She serves all residents with integrity and that's something that I definitely appreciate for my board. Um, so I just wanted to
come and say that. I'm wondering what had happened if that was uh still a plan. I know you had said you wanted to rotate that position. Mayor, >> I didn't make a decision about that. It is on the agenda for discussion um this evening. We haven't gotten there yet. So, we'll do public comment and then we
go into the agenda. >> Okay, great. Thank you very much. Well, I do support for councelor to be deputy mayor very much. >> Thank you for coming. Next guest, please. >> Hi. Uh my name is Kaylin Kinsla. I'm from the fourth ward, 25 Madison Avenue.
Uh, on the theme of Thanksgiving being so close, I beg you to please give me some grace here for my bullet points. Um, so I don't know if you've ever been to Redeye Cafe, but you go there, you get your coffee, you get a croissant, you do
whatever you want to do, and you go back to your car, and you exit the parking lot that's right next to it, and you can't see a single thing when you're trying to exit and go through that stop sign, right? The signs that allow you to park somewhere for two hours, four hours, you
know those signs, they're too close. You can't see what's on either side. I've almost crashed multiple times because I have to basically be halfway out in the street to be able to see anything. And also, even when they are put in
place, the signs, it doesn't work because they're not enforced. Very rarely have I seen people ticketed for staying more than four hours or going past the signs. I've also seen on, you know, the intersection on Luwellyn and Orange Road.
>> Yeah. On an event night for MKA Elementary School, both sides of the road cuz it's a oneway with two lanes. Both sides of the road are filled with cars. you can't really get through and you have you can't fit two cars on both sides when there's cars on both sides of
the street already. So, you can barely make a turn and if you want to make a left and someone else wants to make a right, you can't do that because there's not enough space. So, it just creates a huge traffic jam and you're not supposed to do that. There's no there's no legal allowing of that. There
should be more enforcement, but there just isn't any enforcement because people just keep do doing it. So, I'd appreciate if you would do something about it so I would not crash my car. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next guest, please.
>> Hi. Uh, my name is Levi Seagull. I'm a resident of the second ward and a student at Monontlair High School and I was previously a member of the uh Vision Zero task force. Um, I really appreciate the amount of safety improvement projects that the town has done. I've seen new stop signs, new traffic lights
are watching plaza and a lot of new delineators around. Um to add on to those safety improvements, I would highly support building more protective bike lanes and adding that to the safe streets agenda that we have. You know, the complete streets uh the green
streets policy that was passed. Uh Mont Clair is already a pretty bikable town just distance-wise. you could bike across town within 20 minutes and most streets are already relatively bikable. Um but there isn't enough dedicated infrastructure. Um we need more
protected bike lanes. Um and right now we don't really have any protected bike lanes nor um I'm not really aware of if there's any plan to build any um protected bike lanes uh along with as a part of street upgrades. Um, and you
know, while there's the streets here in Montlair, many of them are on the wider side, and that does promote speeding, and that's what creates the danger when you're biking. Um, and there are a lot of benefits to building protected bike
lanes would um increase the amount of people cycling, which would reduce the financial burden of car ownership and reduce CO2 emissions. you know, and while adding protected bike lanes may require the elimination of um parking spaces, um this is not really safety is
a lot more important than the convenience of being able to park a car. Um and um to address some previous speakers points that like there's too many businesses in that's what's traffic. You know, I it's it's not
really that the businesses are the problem. You know, we want more businesses. We want to make Montlair h be a better place to live with having more economic activity. The problem is that these new businesses um we it supports car infrastructure and it
supports having to drive to these businesses because we don't have adequate alternative forms of transportation like like cycling paths or better transit infrastructure. that would really reduce car ownership and make the traffic and safety problems at these intersections and where these
businesses are a significantly less of an issue than it is. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Next guest, please. Guest number 10. >> Hey. >> Hi. Good evening. Diane Angland. My ears are still popped. I just got off a
plane. Uh Diane Angland 158 Orange Montlair resident. Uh happy holidays to everyone. Uh while on vacation, I was getting several text messages about the resolution to uh change the deputy
mayor. Um while I am in favor of all of council people having a rotation, um we're concerned about the process and making sure that you know I want to give a shout out to our young people who are here because it's so wonderful to see how civically engaged you are, but with
our young people watching, we have to make sure that we follow process. So if we are going to do a rotation because I remember back in the day we used to be pissed off when uh Dr. Baskerville wasn't named the deputy mayor. But we have to follow process. So if we're
going to do a rotation, let's put that in place and figure out what the timing is. The way it was presented, it looks kind of funky. It looks bad when people say, "I wasn't aware or this isn't happening." And it looks like we don't know how to play well on a playground.
and we want to make sure that uh we monitor that. Susan, thank you for coming up here because I wasn't aware of our issues with coexisting. Even on vacation, I was getting uh things on our neighborhood WhatsApp. Rahm gets it too
of all the Fox that are in our neighborhood, too. So, we're learning how to coexist with everyone else. Before I go, I do want to say that uh the NAACP has been in partnership with MFE, CPAC, and the uh PTA council
working with our school district to get information out because we want to be truth tellers and factf finders. So on December 2nd, we will have a um forum that will be on Zoom and please look for that information. December 4th, the
NAACP will be partnering with St. Paul Baptist Church. Um, and I'll be quite frank, it is going to be on the effect of everything on our black children. Um, this what's going on financially, but
talking to a lot of parents in town about just their experience that they have within the school. So, we're going to elevate this cuz because quite frankly, if you look at the flyer, the house is on fire for us. So, we have to
um be intentional about how Montlair Public Schools is working with our black children. We met a lot of families in town who if they can, they take their kids out. So when we talk about an achievement gap, of course the
achievement gap is going to be greater if our high-erforming students go to private schools. So please come out and talk about this if you care. Thanks a lot and have a great holiday. >> Thank you so much. Next guest, please.
Guest number 11. >> Good evening. My name is Lauren Denor and I live in the first ward. As a concerned parent and taxpayer, last week my husband and I volunteered to send handwritten postcards to registered voters who signed up for mail-in ballots
in the hopes of encouraging them to vote yes. Yes. One of these postcards arrived at the home of a member of one of the town council members addressed to one of their family members. The postcard said, "Dear blank, I'm angry and disappointed
and I am still voting yes because new school leadership is finally making hard decisions to bring long-term stability to our schools. I hope you will join me, your neighbor, Lauren, mom of three. That's me." The council member proceeded to post my postcard to their 2,000 plus
followers on Facebook along with some commentary. Why am I sharing the story? Because we are living in highly polarized times where issues like this can further exacerbate divisions, especially when our elected officials use their platforms and influence to
spread misinformation or seed mistrust in our public institutions. Let me give you two examples from the council members Facebook posts. The first that postcards were some nefarious project of our school board members who illegally shared private information
when in reality the data set was legally obtained and the postcards were clearly labeled with a paid by description. This false comment from a public official has the effect of further eroding trust from our elected school board members who as a reminder are volunteers working on
behalf of our children. The second that people behind the postcards are wealthy individuals who could quote pull their resources to bail the district out rather than punish everyone in town. For the record, I am a professor at a public university and I
live in a home that is assessed at slightly below the average. This inaccurate comment only serves to further divide this town based on perceived but false economic lines. I'm not naming the council member as my goal here is not to shame anyone. Rather, I'm here to ask the entire council for two
things. Number one, please be mindful of your words and your actions. We may disagree on the December 9th school referendum, but you have a responsibility to role model a different kind of politics that celebrates civic
participation, not attacks it with misinformation. Number two, please do your part. What's your solution to the instability of one of our most important town assets? Why not reallocate pilot funding to schools and find comparable cuts to town
expenses, which would have the impact of reducing the additional school tax burden on your constituents. Despite the way that I've been treated, my neighbors and I stand ready to work with you. I wish you all a peaceful and reflective holiday.
>> Thank you. Next guest, please. Guest number 12. Thank you. >> H >> guest number 12. Thank you. >> Good evening. Um my name is David Corfage. I live at 58 Tuxedo Road in
Monontlair. Um thank you for giving up yet another Tuesday evening. I appreciate your your efforts on behalf of the town. I'm actually here I'm going to actually I'm here to speak about the complete streets director position. Uh
my main request is that and I believe that Mr. Marks has already spoken of this as a priority position, but I really encourage you all to make sure that this position gets filled as rapidly as possible. I've spoken to you about biking infrastructure myself. You know all about the proposal for the bike
lane on Grove Street. Uh there was we've heard tonight about uh traffic on Park Street which could be addressed with traffic calming measures. We've heard about other calls for bike lanes. spoken with councelor Toller about about uh vision zero or trafficcoming measures in the fourth ward. Um so there's a lot of
stuff on the plate of this uh committee the um complete streets task force. Uh my impression what I've been told is that they've already missed one meeting and are in track to miss another meeting um because we're waiting for that director to be hired. Uh and I recognize
it was only a couple months ago it was hired. I don't know. I know it takes a certain amount of time to hire people, but it's worth noting according to the Montlair crashes website, there have been eight crashes at least since that position was posted. Uh so again, there's a lot of stuff that can be done to make Monontlair safer, to make it
more walkable and bikable, to promote active transportation and all the benefits that can bring. I don't get the impression any of that can happen until that position is filled. So, I really hope uh you all uh members of the council and also the manager will make a real effort to get that position filled
as rapidly as possible so as a town we can move on and do the things we need to do to make our town safer and better. Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. Next guest, please. >> Good evening, Mayor Baskil. Council members, I'm Jeffrey Robert
Grayson. During the November 12th council meeting, a resident from the first ward came forward to express his displeasure, excuse me, over a change in the sidewalk standard. This change took place after he and his neighbors had spent thousands
of dollars to comply with the old standard. The new standard meant that the repairs were unnecessary. If residents of the first ward are subjected to this degree of m municipal flip-flopping, what hope do residents of the fourth ward have in receiving
equitable and unbiased treatment? Monontlair is in desperate need of effective management and transformational leadership. All of the social media posts of ribbon cutings and photographs at new buildings, traffic lights, flea markets,
movie theaters, and restaurants are nothing more than smoke screens designed to obscure the fact that Monontlair's town planner has us on an express train to gentrification, urban renewal, and cultural displacement. It has become clear that it's hard to
find effective, ethical, res, resilient, and resolute leadership in Monontlair. Why did a counselor resign after one year and potentially create gridlock in the council's ability to conduct business? Why did the complete streets director
resign after four months, leaving the fourth ward without street safety impro improvement so desperately needed? Why is the board of education at the center of a scandal that has polarized the town and placed us at a crossroads? On one side, you have the fear that
repercussions from this issue will cause Monontlair's real estate market to bottom out and property values of homes that people pay too much for will decline. On the other side, you have you have the people that are the heart and soul of Montlair's reputation for
diversity, fearing that they will no longer be able to afford to live here. Poor leadership and duplicitous behavior within the board of education has brought us here. The elected board of education has been a colossal failure and its leadership and proponents need
to have their deeds exposed and be held accountable. In times of crisis, effective leaders step forward and manage the situation with transparency, stability, bold leadership, and vision. When you have residents that are paying for unnecessary sidewalk repairs while
others are afraid to cross the streets near their homes. When you have residents that are being hoodwinkedked and bamboozled by ambiguous and perplexing ballot questions while others are struggling to feed their families and remain in their homes. Despite what you'd have like to
have everyone believe, not everyone in town lives in a million-doll house. And they want to know, "What about us?" These residents want to see leaders spend less time creating photo albums and more time creating solutions and strategies. Maybe then the hope that
went into our votes will be rewarded. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. Next guest, please. >> Guest number 14, please. Good evening, council mayor. Um, Lyn, I'm sorry. I'm Lynn Stockhammer. I live on Forest Street. Um, I wanted to thank
the council for unanimously passing the New Jersey Immigrant Trust Act. Um, all residents need to urge New Jersey to get this to the governor's desk. Um, and thank you, uh, Councelor Anderson for your robust words of support and
coordination. Um this is a fir only a first but it's a very significant step in protecting the safety, economic security and dignity of our immigrant families and community who must be kept intact and ultimately all of us in our
shared humanity. Um, in terms of people talking about the traffic, um, many of us appreciate the trafficcoming measures that are being actively put in place, and I echo the concerns of several tonight, as I know many do. But we need enforcement, but we
do not need more development. More development means more of these cars, more pollution, more injuries, more deaths, and more displacement, especially in the historically African-American fourth ward. This fourth ward
um consists right now all of these issues are intertwined as we know of the descendants of the enslaved bedrock African-Ameans who built this town servicing the rich and whose descendants now can no longer afford to live and
work in their own generational communities. Um, and speaking of the fourth ward, I'm here to speak in support of the resolution for fourth ward counselor Amina Teller for deputy mayor. Um, I really can't I probably
know um, councelor Toller better than I know any of you um, in town um, from the little that I do working in town. but she truly cares about every person in this community and um particularly
advocates for her own ward where nobody else is doing that. Somebody just spoke about um the vision zero person leaving, you know, with those needs unmet. That's always put first, put last. Thank you
very much. Thank you very much. Next guest, please. Hi, I'm Sarah Avery. Uh, it was my understanding the deputy mayor role was established by this council with a one-year term. And frankly, I would prefer to have anyone in the deputy
mayor position other than councelor Anderson. Her propensity to virtue virtue signal rather than do any actual work on behalf of the community was expected but remains a disappointment. She she has never once advocated excuse
me I'm talking. >> It's okay. >> I want our council to tell you that that's wrong. >> Excuse me. Yeah. This is your >> She has no right to interrupt me. >> Did I interrupt you? >> No. >> Well then you have no interrupt me.
>> Thank you. This this is your time. This is your time, Miss Avery. She never once advocated on behalf of community members living in the fourth ward and south end of Montlair whose residency status is jeopardized by rampant predatory overdevelopment.
Clearly, she cares about immigrants like herself, but callously ignores longtime residents who are being displaced. Virtue signaling is nothing more than a smokeokc screen to cover up the entitlement mentality of those who think
Montlair is a haven for the wealthy. People who actually believe they have the authority to grant permission to those of a lower socioeconomic class the privilege of living here. I welcome councelor Toller as deputy mayor
of Monontlair as she has set an example of how to work on behalf of the entire community not just the vocal privileged few. My website, Monontlair, progressive or corrupt, the myth, the legend, the lie,
is live and features indepth analysis of multiple subjects, including censorship, Monontlair's legacy of slavery, redlinining, the NJA fraud, the row case, the teachers lawsuit, plus
extensive coverage of spiller corruption, including the mills social services building transaction, which But I recommend you all read. The information is now in the public domain and anyone anywhere can access it. Any
actions taken by this council that ignore readily available evidence of fraud is a violation of local government ethics law NJSA4A9-22. Quote, "The vitality and stability of representative democracy depend upon the
public's confidence in the integrity of its elected and appointed representatives. And by the way, the tax assessor is committing fraud. Shame on you for approving the revaluation ordinance and shame on you for approving the Hendricks resolution."
Next guest, please. Guest number 16. How dare you? How dare you disrespect me? >> Who are you? >> Guest number 16, please. >> Who are you? >> Stop attacking Diane. She does so much
for this community. >> Oh, like I don't. >> Excuse me, everyone. Um, there's a guest that's waiting to be heard. Guest number 16. Hi, I'm Jessica Stoulsburg. I live in Montlair. Um,
>> can you just stop the clock until we are where we need to be? >> Yes. Thank you. >> I think we're ready. >> Could someone reset that, please? Because >> I'd appreciate it. Thank you. Um, I wanted to talk tonight about our continuous unsafe sidewalk situation as
well as um the problem with our town trees and a purchase that I I hope that you will still reconsider it. Um, we know walking through town that very often the most egregious sidewalk issues are caused by town trees. So, those are
town trees causing really unsafe, nonADA compliant town sidewalks. yet property owners are responsible for those sidewalks. Um I'd like to suggest that the town begin to take responsibility when they can see that there's no question that a town tree is causing the
sidewalk to be upended. Um that is not your fault. It preceded you. These trees were planted a long time ago. Perhaps they are on the wrong size, the wrong species, were planted poorly. But you are on the day now and we need your support to make those sidewalks safe. uh
people are tripping injured on a regular basis. Um so the that also has to do with us planting more trees, the wonderful grant we have. I I've heard and I hope it's a rumor that there's talk of attaching a waiver so that a
property owner who brings in a a grant-f funded street tree, town tree has to sign a waiver taking responsibility that if that tree upends their sidewalk, they'll cover it. So, I hope that's a rumor because that means that you're basically holding hostage the shade
canopy through uh us taking having to like repair a sidewalk that we didn't cause harm to. Um, regarding the log truck purchase, um, after towards the end of the meeting, I listened, um, to
your discussion about it and councelor Harrison, you mentioned that we need a log truck, which I understand is a very long flatbed with big metal arms that holds long un uncut logs. I have never seen uncut logs being removed from our town. Um, branches are often cut up with
uh, you know, chainsaws. They go into dump dump trucks that we have lots of vehicles. Private tree companies come in to do private property. Um PSEG comes in to take care of trees that interrupt our wires. So you have to ask what are the
actual long pieces that need a log truck. And um this this leads to that I don't know if you guys found out like why do we need one versus someone asked for one. Um, I went ahead and I called a bunch of
towns. Nobody has a log truck. Not Nutley, not Clifton, not Bloomfield, not Verona, not Maplewood, not West Caldwell, not Madison. I can keep calling if that would be helpful to you. Please take the $290,000 and invest in our sidewalks. Do not buy
us a log truck. We need safe sidewalks. Uh, Councelor Shin Anderson, you mentioned that the truck with the new vehicle will minimize physical injury to the workers. I would like the $290,000 to please be spent to minimize physical injury to the people of Montlair. Thank
you very much. Thank you. Next. Next guest, please. Guest number 17. Hi, I'm Ariel Ext. Uh 316 Park Street. Uh, I read an article this morning in the Jersey Vindicator, um, where the
journalist documented how democracy is not just in decline nationally, but in our state. And in recent years, negative changes include silencing public participation, gutting oversight and watchdog agencies,
and rolling back transparency laws. Uh the reason that I come to these council meetings is that I hope that at least on the hyper local level I have some ability to help keep our fragile democracy healthy. For example, I believe the current ballot measure is
undemocratic. It doesn't include an explanatory statement. So it is very difficult to understand what the ballot is asking. The second question log rolls two issues into one instead of breaking them into two separate questions. There are other problems as well detailed in
the two lawsuits that have been filed to prevent the election from moving forward. However, if the election is to move forward, I think it is important for the town to weigh in. Even though the election originated with the board of ed, it is now a tax issue which falls
to the town. The town needs to inform residents through the website, emails, and public forums about what they are voting on and how their taxes will be impacted. So that's number one. Number two, um I
also think that executive session is used for issues that can can and should be talked about openly and in public. Transparency builds trust and I hope you will strive to keep these meetings as transparent as possible. My civic hero
Joan Pransky talked about this often and I hope that you will honor her memory by doing so. I also support the measure to rotate the deputy mayor between council members on a yearly basis as it has been in the past. I it's unclear from what the mayor said if you guys are doing
that tonight or not, but I know that it's a role that doesn't actually hold power, but it symbolically shows that each ward is of equal importance and that power is not concentrated in particular individuals, but in all members of the council. I thank thank
councelor Shin Anderson for stepping up at the beginning and now I support councelor Toller whom to so many of us is the ultimate example of someone who truly represents her constituents. She never stops informing, giving, helping,
and even baking for her residents. And um speaking of transparency, um it seems like the deer grant has hidden consequences that we should learn more about before passing it. And you were asked for a meeting and it hasn't
happened yet. Please learn more before voting. And let's also look to pass an ordinance to prevent the practice of culling and killing inside our township. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next guest, please. Guest number 18. Is there another guest?
If not, we're going to come out of the public comment. >> Number 18. Oh, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Good evening. Good evening, Mayor Baskerville, town council members. My
name is Linda Cow. I um here tonight as a representative of the Montlair PTA Council for which I'm serving currently as the president. Um first I wanted to kind of echo Diane England's uh comments earlier about the form that our
collaborative of MF um NACP PTAC and CPAC are putting together. We're calling it our building better governance forum. It's a community um conversation on governance uh fiscal
oversight and accountability with um the superintendent Ruth Turner and Board of Education President Monk Inyang. And we are hoping to address issues um address these questions. What are the districts and board of education's responsibilities for fiscal oversight
and accountability? What changes have already been made to address the current challenges? What are the districts and board of education's long-term plans and goals for fiscal stability and accountability and what can the community expect going forward?
Um, I'm also here tonight to share some concerns and questions around the district budget referendum. Last week, I sat with a senior who had never had kids in our public schools and was leaning towards a no no vote. While
my organization um PTAC has voted to advocate for yes yes yes vote, the purpose of our conversation was not necessarily to sway one another. We listened to each other for over an hour, expressed our frustrations, fears, and asked each other questions. What we
agreed on was that this was not an us versus them. That kids should not be pitted against the needs of seniors. two of our most vulnerable se two of the most vulnerable segments of our community that the vitality and strength
of our town requires both. We need you to support both. So, I'm here tonight to ask that our elected what our elected officials are doing for our kids and our seniors. Why do we still not have a senior center? What are you doing to
support our schools? Especially in this time of crisis when we are approaching a financial cliff that could impact the education of a whole generation. If we get a no no vote starting with the 2026 2027 school year, our district could be
looking at an operating budget of reduced by over $9 million. So, you may have already heard that the superintendent has um proposed some cuts, but they only total of about $5 million. And folks are already
considering that devastating. The impact on our students could be devastating. So, no matter the outcome of the referendum, we are neighbors and we share this community for better or worse. I hope that we all want what is best for our schools, students, and
educators, but also for our seniors, empty nesters, single parents, every sector of our community. So, I ask, when will our public schools get their fair share of pilot funds? When will the township show that they understand, as Superintendent Turner has said, we are
we are married, the town and the district. We need to raise this town together. join me in taking this conversation to the governor-elect and other state officials. We must ensure that everyone understands the real barriers and challenges our district faces. >> Thank you very much, Miss Cal. I
appreciate it. >> And so, finally, acknowledge the students who who are here, the young people who are here. >> They're watching, right? So, they're watching how we navigate this process, how we treat each other, and how much
we're willing to invest in them, our future leaders. So on December 9th, please vote yes. Yes. >> And we follow the rules. Thank you so very much. Next guest, please. >> Number 19. Guest number 19. 19. Guest
number 20, please. >> Good evening. >> Good evening, mayor and council. My name is Sharon Smith. I was born, raised, and still proudly reside here in Monontlair. I am here tonight to express my support for the resolution to appoint councelor Amina Toller as deputy mayor of the
township of Monontlair. It has been our township practice rot to rotate this position so that leadership is shared in every part of our community is representative. Councelor Toller p councelor Toller's passion and deepest commitment may be rooted in the fourth
ward. However, she loves and works tire tirelessly for the entire township. Prayerfully, nothing happens to Mayor Baskerville, and we hope this position never needs to be utilized in that way. But having a deputy mayor who is community focused is essential, and councelor Tuller is more than ready to
fulfill this that responsibility if needed. She shows up where she is needed. She listens, she advocates, and she dedicates her time and energy to ensure that residents across every ward feel seen, heard, and supported. Her leadership is grounded in a genuine love for Monontlair. For that reasons, I
support and urge others to support the resolution appointing councelor Amina Tuller as our next deputy mayor. Thank you and have a happy holiday. Thank you. Next guest, please. Guest number 21. Is there 21? Thank you.
>> Um, good evening Dr. Mr. Baskerville, Mission Anderson, uh Mr. Marks, and members of the council. Uh hi, my name is Wyatt Foster. I'm a senior at Monar High School. I'm also currently uh from the second ward, and um I'm currently serving as the student representative to the Monontlair Board of Education. Um
I'm here in tandem with some members from Save Monontlair Schools to push the town council to direct a proportion of the pilot funds um that they receive each year towards the school district. Um and I also like to start by thanking you all for your dedication, leadership, and service to our local community.
Superintendent Turner has mentioned before that our schools and the township are very much married. Um, many families move to Monontlair because of the strength of the school system. And if the instructional cuts that we are uh facing right now take place and class sizes increase, test scores will
inevitably decline. If the magnet system is dissolved, homes in Montlair may become less valuable. And our reputation and success as a township depends on our reputation and success of our district. Regardless of how the December 9th vote goes, Montlair is fighting an uphill battle alongside the rest of the
districts in New Jersey. Utilities, healthcare, and contracted salaries are increasing faster than the 2% cap can cover. Lasting changes needed in how funds are allocated to perman permanently keep our district financially healthy. At a recent board of education meeting and also tonight, um, Miss Cow pointed out that it's a
shame we're in a situation where we're forced to weigh the needs of Monontlair's senior citizens against the needs of our students. we shouldn't be in that position. So, we need to adjust our process accordingly. At the district level, I'm confident in Superintendent Turner's leadership and the new uh measures that she's implemented during her time in office. Um, and in the years
that come, new long-term plans and hopefully additional revenue streams will better prepare us to swallow the rising costs. Things will also need to look different at the state level. But the change that we need starts here with the township and the allocation of pilot funds. 50% of 57% of that money, $1.9
million, would have tangible impacts. It could fund a forensic audit, new accounting software, and several critical positions. Cedar Grove sends $1.2 million in pilot funds to the school district each year. Upon adopting this plan three years ago, members of the local government there argued that
the benefits of this decision overwhelmingly outweigh the cost because the township is desirous of supporting and promoting the education and civic development of its young residents. My hope is that you would all agree. The sacrifices that are being discussed for economic reasons. Classroom teachers, school nurses, security guards, and
counseling staff along with many others are critical to the success and safety of our children. Monontlair Public Schools is carrying the burden. Students, teachers, and families are bearing the cost. I'm asking that the township shoulder that load alongside us and make some hard decisions. Happy Thanksgiving. >> Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving to you.
Next guest, please. Guest number 22. Who's there? Uh, guest number 22. >> Hi, Tony. >> Hi, Tony Martin, 41 North Fitton Avenue. I came to speak about something that is
not so freighted as the issues that are tearing our town apart. But let me just say for a minute, it grieves me greatly the way these the school taxation issue is tearing our town apart.
Tonight I had the old, you know, how am I going to stay in my seat without having a heart attack feeling that I used to have during the previous administration. Um, could everybody just take a breath on both sides and could we avoid the
personal venality cat calls and other types of remarks in the immortal words of Rodney King? Can we get along while we disagree? Okay. Now, what I wanted to talk about was um
parking and valet parking and so forth on Church Street. I am a resident of downtown Monontlair. I'm sorry, Mr. uh Councelor Williams. I missed your most recent meeting on this and I know that you are walking point here. Um, and so I
don't know as much as you know, but what I do know is my experience as a regular protester on the corner of church, the five corners, church, Bloomfield, etc.
And um we have had landlord Z particularly one come out and exhort us to remove ourselves from the sidewalk where we as you know have a perfect right to be. Um we don't have a permit
but we follow the rules. And so um it's built up some resentment in me and others but especially me I suspect. um to be uh accosted by police officers at
the behest of the landlord. Um and uh and you know, we've tried to talk them down and they're respectful. Um it's just uh bothersome. Meanwhile, now for two weeks, I think two out of
three weeks, um Church Street has been closed down. Um, you know, we all wanted it to be a pedestrian or no, many of us wanted it to be a pedestrian street for a time. Well, now it gets closed down regularly for this restaurant that um
gets a permit to have the police stand and block uh Church and Bloomfield. Um, and when I talk to the policemen, they say or officers, they say, uh, well, they have
a permit. Um, but I think it might be a matter of policy, too, that this is something you might want to look at. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next guest, please. >> Guest number 23, please.
>> 23. Scratched 24. Guest number 24, please. >> Hi. Um, good evening, Anna Gman, um, resident of Monontlair. I think the theme of my comment tonight is disorientation. I feel more and more
disoriented living in Monontlair. Um there's a couple of issues that are on my mind. Uh and one of them is the deer. I love that we have uh an office of sustainability and I love the work Dr.
Johnson does. But this grant is confusing to me because I know that in other communities when these counts take place, uh it it's the beginning of something that I
oppose. And so I'd rather flip it around and ask you directly a question. Are we going to be killing deer? Yes or no? Because really, it's just that simple. I I mean, count away, count all night, count with drones, but
are we killing deer? Yes or no? Because that's all that matters to me. And if we're not going to kill deer, then great. If we're going to live with conflicts the way I thought our, you know, town said they were going
to, then fantastic. Then this is a non-issue. But not knowing makes me feel disoriented. Um, the tree situation makes me feel disoriented.
We always talk about Monontlair being environmentally progressive and it's been 2 years since we've talked about updating our tree ordinance and it hasn't happened yet. That makes me feel disoriented. I don't know where I am. Am
I in a community that cares or not? And I feel the same way about affordability. This whole school situation is so upsetting to those of us who do not make a lot of money and who, you know, are living paycheck to
paycheck. It's very disorienting to see that the concerns of people who have, you know, financial pressures on them are not front and center in that whole
debate. Um, separately, it's Thanksgiving. I'm so glad I'm not cooking this year. Um, and I am grateful for all of you. Each one of you I've gotten to know everybody here. Um,
you're all really special and I mean that in from my heart, all of you. You accepted a a t-shirt from me. Um, and me being nasty to you and then getting a t-shirt and you have a good sense of humor. You
are so fantastic with data and research. You, you know, I would get a tattoo that says I love Bill, right? Um, mayor, I love you so much. You just are such an incredible presence. Susan, you inspire me. Whenever I look at your Instagram,
so many things that you do and what you're putting uh out there is wonderful. Rahm, you've engaged with me in conversations and I'm I'm tough. Uh, so thank you for that. Counselor Toller, you gave me the first hug uh that I ever
got such an incredible hug from you. I would like to see all of you rotate positions because I really think we deserve that because you all are so incredibly special and unique, each one of you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next guest, please. We're up to guest
number 25, please. Hi, I'm Mariana. I live on 80 Gordon Avenue and thank you so much for your service. I know it's not easy sitting there and I hope to be short because it's also not easy sitting there until
very late. Um when the board of ad decided to have this election I as I as I told them please consider asking for less by asking for everything you might end up with nothing. And it wasn't easy for me to decide that I'm voting yes.
And I know that it's not easy for anyone who decided that they're voting no yes or no no. It's a very hard choice because it's a choice between affordability and equity. All the things we're going to lose in the schools support equity. My daughter will be very
little hurt because I can afford to supplement and give her quality opportunities that she won't be getting in schools anymore. Other kids can't. But the cost of our taxes is truly exorbitant and for many that's just too
much. So I want to thank everyone who's just thinking with their hearts and trying to make the best decision from this town. Thank you. Finally, there are some things that are not so hard to give and I hope that you
consider those two asks. One is at monontlair asks.org or and it's a petition to move polling places out of schools. It has become too dangerous to have a school while we have elections at
the schools. We do have many alternative facilities that the board of education has already identified and sent to the county board of elections. The clerk has a role in suggesting locations and that's why I'm here. We'll
be sending you the petition as soon as it's ready. We just created it yesterday, so I don't have enough signatures to be impressive. It's only under 300, but I hope that you support us. It costs nothing and it will mean a lot for our schools to be able to open
on election day and will make a lot easier for parents to vote. I have missed an election because it's hard to keep your kid busy all day and then you forget the other things you had to do that day. Finally, if I have a few
seconds, which I do, I want to talk about pilots again. It was 2023 where some of you started advocating with me for sharing pilots with the schools. And these schools were in a $5.5 million hole. And
miraculously, that hole had disappeared in the fall. And there were no deficits in 2425 or 2526. Well, the war, the 5.5 million are still there. That's part of Gashan one. And
then there's the deficit from the next year and the deficit from this year. And that's how we got here. Yes, there were very dishonest administrators who hid the extent of this deficit from all of us. But the deficit is still there and
we still need pilot revenue. It's non- tax revenue that you take away and we all pay the for the education of those 160 students who are in the schools. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next guest, please. Guest number 26.
>> Sorry, my leg fell asleep. It's not there. Um, hi. Good evening everyone. I just want to uh thank you all again for your service. like so many people have said here tonight, y'all are incredible for for stepping up into these roles and serving the community this way. Um, I do want to thank Council Shan Anderson also
for your support on the immigrant trust act. Um, I just want to say supporting immigrants is a crossracial intersectional um work that crosses socioeconomic lines. And as someone who works adjacent to um immigration policy advocacy, I just want to like set that
record straight on behalf of uh immigrants rights advocates that uh support for immigrant justice is not exclusive at all. Rather, it is a a sign of a healthy multi-racial democracy. And um speaking of a democracy, I I do think you know this rotating um deputy
mayorship it that would be a sign of a healthy democracy. Uh but healthy democracy also requires good governance and processes. Uh the last time I was here speaking at a council meeting, a public commenter spoke about the way items get added to agendas and there being time for the public to know about
it. Uh and then I was thinking back to the very first time that I spoke during public comment a few years ago and the counselor at the time said that he would not have known about the thing I was speaking about if we hadn't reached out to him. Um and so I just think that codifying processes would help create
more transparency. Um, I believe council Anderson was working on a resolution for for something that would codify the way these things come up. And so I just um hope that that we're able to have that level of transparency and and those systems in place to really ensure that uh both the counselors and the public
are able to have time and and see things clearly. So again, thank you all for all your hard work and I hope you all have a lovely Thanksgiving. Thanks. >> Thank you. You as well. I'm sorry, what was your name, please? >> So sorry about that. I'm Danielle Ibata 2011 WW. >> I'm sorry. What's the last name?
>> Uh, Iata. That's I W A T A. >> Thank you very much. >> Hello. Uh, my name is Patty Beashores. I'm a resident of 349 Grove Street and I'm here because of what's happening with a resolution concerning the change in deputy mayor. That to me raises real
concerns about process transparency and how this council chooses to do its work. A change in leadership, any change in leadership should never appear on an agenda without first being discussed openly among all counselors. That is basic good governance. That is respect.
And that is what residents expect from the people they elected to serve. Instead, this was introduced without collaboration, without conversation, and without giving your colleagues the courtesy of understanding the attention or the rationale before it became
public. That blindsides them, and it blindsides the community. This is exactly the kind of internal maneuvering residents were told would not happen with this group. People voted for you with the expectation of transparency, unity, and stability. Yet
tonight, we're watching the opposite. A surprise resolution that wasn't vetted, wasn't discussed, and wasn't brought forward through any kind of healthy decision-making process. And to do this now when our town and our schools are dealing with genuine, urgent challenges
only adds to the concern. Residents need you fully focused on issues that impact their lives every single day. safety, infrastructure, budgeting, communication, staffing, and restoring trust after years of uncertainty. Those
are the priorities that deserve your time and energy, not internal shifts that haven't even been properly discussed among the seven people responsible for leading this town. This is not about personalities. It is about process and priorities. It's about how
decisions are made and whether this council is committed to the transparency and collaboration it promised the community. If a res resolution like this is to be considered at all, the first step should be a conversation among all of you in the open with trust and
clarity. Only then should anything be introduced for a vote. Tonight's approach does not reflect that and that should concern every resident regardless of where they stand on the outcome. I urge you to pause this resolution, return to a process grounded in shared
discussion, and recommmit to the transparent, collaborative leadership that Montlair voters were told to expect and that Montlair still deserves. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next guest, please. Guest number 28. >> Um, hello. Uh good evening uh members of
the council and mayor Baskerville. Um my name is Caleb Lang Robertson. I live on 77 Orange Road. So I've recently been introduced in the local politics and it's interesting to say the least. So many people have talked about setting an example for the future. So this is all our chance. I'd like everyone to
remember that. So far in my small like less than a few months career in local politics, I've seen yelling, arguing, and I've even seen I've even heard of board of education me people advertising their board of education campaign during public comment.
This is not very professional and does not set this good example that we need to set for all of us, especially future people who are going to be maybe in council positions or future more public comment speakers that are maybe regulars. I don't know. But this is not what I actually want to speak about. I have another issue which of people have
been talking about the deficit and I fully like think that's a I think that's a very pressing issue and it's definitely what should be addressed first. But there's another issue of the high school that is less talked about. Uh namely the intersections the specifically the ones on um Park and
Park and Chestnut and Midland and Chestnut they have signs up saying that during school that during certain hours um during certain hours you can't make a right or left. you can't make a turn and nobody follows it. So, here's the thing. I've There have been many cases of
accidents at those intersections, namely because people don't follow the laws there. The police are only ever there after the accident. They aren't there to prepare for in the case of an accident. And when I've seen them at the intersection, they don't pull people over. They just sit there and watch as people violate these traffic
regulations, which are very dangerous. Crossing guards are basically the ones who have to take take charge of this and I've heard them mult I've heard them and seen them basically almost have to fight with cars. I've even from my math classroom across the street in a building. From there I can hear loud
honks, yelling, crossing guards, having to basic having to fight their way to make sure that people follow basic traffic rules like not turning within a small window. It's not fair that they have to do this job and we have a police force that's meant to protect the community. In fact, crossing guards at the high school have
been hit many times, sometimes in these intersections. I think as a community, we should do better and make sure that these intersections are safe for everybody. Uh, thank you and happy and happy Thanksgiving. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. Next guest, please.
>> Guest number 29. Kevin Amin, five decade old fourth ward resident. Um the reason I'm coming tonight is to support the resolution for um my council woman, Amina Toller. I support her um to
uh be appointed as a deputy mayor. Um, I want to congratulate the prior deputy mayor, Susan Sheen Anderson, my atlarge um, council person and um, I think she's
um, a good successor in a in a long line of fine council people um, including the madame mayor, Miss Baskerville. Thank you for your service previously. Um, Sandra Lang, Audrey Taylor,
and excuse me, Audrey Fletcher. Audrey Audrey Fletcher. And her name her name escapes me. The one who came before um Audrey >> Bobby Riley. >> Okay. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Very very very strong woman. And um I just want to
uh put my support for Council Councilwoman Tola. Thank you very much for your service and um I think you'll do very well going forward as a deputy mayor. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next guest, please. Guest
number 30, please. >> Good. Okay. All right. So, we're going to move to new business ordinances. Um new business ordinance A. Um I don't
know who wants to start. >> I'll start. >> Thank you, councelor. >> Uh new ordinances, uh a bond ordinance amending section 3 of bond ordinance uh number 025 2317 of the township of
Montlair was finally adopted on June 13th in order to revise the projects referred to therein. So this is and I so move >> second
um these um ordinances if there are people that wish to be heard you can please come down to the front and be heard now um on this ordinance. This is the second reading. >> Oh, this is the first one. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought this was the second. My
apologies. Okay, council members, any discussion? Mayor. >> Yes. >> Maybe. >> Yes. Manager Marks, please, if you'd be. >> So, uh earlier this year, uh the mayor and council passed a um a a bond
ordinance uh which contained provisions for improvements at the uh police headquarters, police department. Um because of change in circumstances, instead of uh spending uh money on a new uh 911 center uh at that location, it
was determined that it's best in the best interest of the department to spend uh a a this similar same amount of money on other technology upgrades in including uh bodywn uh cameras uh security cameras and other um uh
technology upgrades. So, this is changing the eligible purposes of the previously approved bond ordinance to allow those eligible purposes that I just said. >> Thank you. Counselors, anyone have any >> I'm just want to know what the cost
would be. I don't I can't >> Well, the the allocation is the same. So, uh, Lieutenant Bardi and and Chief Confori are both here, uh, to go over in any of the, um, technology, uh, upgrades or technology acquisitions, the the
costs, uh, that they have for those. >> Thank you for being here. Good evening. >> No problem. Good evening. Uh so the cost is going to be similar to the cost at the 911 uh center would have been. This is just changing what the account um
when they did the bond ordinance. This was a 2023 capital budget request that has already been approved. So the funds are in the capital account. Um, it just had to be changed to the purpose of the account had to be changed um to be able to use
it for something different. Since we're not doing the 911 center now, we're going to use it for something that is AGmandated uh bodywn cameras that we're going to come up in 2026 anyway. And we are going to use the old funds rather
than have to ask for the money in 2026 uh in the capital budget request. So, we're basically just using the the money that was already approved rather than asking for new money knowing full well that the town has some financial hardships coming up in the 2026 budget
request. So, we're trying to help in any way we can. >> And you helped already. The shift was requested by the council and I I personally am very grateful that that was accepted by the department. >> So, this this is just a bond ordinance
amendment. Um, next would be actually contracting with Axon. So, that resolution will be coming up at a future meeting. Uh, we have to draft that up and and so just so you know what's coming up. I know I'll we'll do the memo
and everything then as well. But that this is just for the the month. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else? Madame Clerk, >> Deputy Mayor Anderson, >> yes. >> Councelor Birmingham,
>> yes. >> Councelor Damato, >> yes. >> Councelor Harrison, >> yes. >> Councelor Toller, >> yes. >> Councelor Williams, >> yes. >> Mayor Baskerville, >> yes. Um, thank you.
>> Agenda item B, please. Um this is an ordinance to amend section 327 vehicles and traffic of the code of the township of Montlair, New Jersey. Um this is overnight parking. Um, this is
to add two locations for allowing um permit overnight parking between 2 and 5:00 a.m. Fulton Street, Southside um between Elm Street to New Street and Club Street, Southside, Valley Road to
North Mountain Avenue and I so move. >> Second >> discussion. Any discussion on the Yes, councelor Toller. Sure. Thank you. Um, I just wanted to mention for the folks on Fulton Street, um, I know it's a very tight street, but I did speak with the
chief of police and the fire chief to ensure that emergency vehicles can still get down if we allowed parking on one side. They both reported back that it wouldn't be any issues because off of Fulton Street is Miller Street, which is another tight street. Um, and I did speak to two or three residents and
they're very excited about parking on one side. So, I just wanted to put that on the record. Thank you. Madame Clerk. >> Deputy Mayor Anderson. >> Yes. >> Councelor Birmingham. >> Yes. Councelor Damato. >> Yes. >> Councelor Harrison. >> Yes. >> Councelor Toller.
>> Yes. >> Councelor Williams. >> Yes. >> Mayor Baskerville. >> Yes. >> Fields list. Whereas invoices against the township of Monontlair in favor of the following persons for the amount set forth opposite their respective names have
been received duly audited and found correct. Now therefore be it resolved by the council of the township of Monontlair that said invoices be and they hereby are ordered paid and that checks be drawn by the finance department to the order of such persons. I so move.
>> Second. >> Yes. Um, councelor Williams, >> hopefully I'm not going to ask this question and it catches anybody by surprise, but I had a resident reach out to me and was very concerned about folks coming and taking
his recycling. >> Yeah. >> Right. As people come and take my recycling as well. and he was concerned that these folks are taking his recycling which is taking money away from the township because
I guess the town is not going to receive. So could you just explain this process because I wanted to write the person back but I I didn't yet. Are we selling this recycling or is
we're actually paying someone to come and take it? >> You know, before I answer the question, I I would like to do a little bit of research so I don't misspeak. >> May I? Um, >> yes, Councelor Toller. >> Sure. I would recommend you speak with
Craig Brandon regarding this. Um because I did have this question about a year ago and I was told by the previous township manager that it wouldn't cost it's not costing us to lose any money. Um but I know that our trucks go down and get weighed. So if the weight is lower, we need to find out how much
money we're losing or not losing. So I would recommend speaking with Mr. Brandon who's been with DPW for over four years and has a a really good understanding of the recycle and how it's weighed and where it goes. And the uh recycling market is con it's a commodity so it's constantly changing.
So what may have been true a year ago or six months ago may not be true today based on the the the value of the recycled material. >> Yeah. And people do go around in the evenings and they ride around in a truck and pick up people's cans and stuff and take it off. And I'm sure they're
selling it. But are we losing money by allowing that to happen is really the question. Anyone else? Deputy mayor, I have a question. >> I mean, deputy uh clerk, I'm sorry. >> I do have a question on the bill list. I'm just curious why we have so many
Verizon wireless bills >> and if there is a problem with the Verizon wireless account at all. >> Um that is something that I I'll have to look into and report back to you. >> Okay. can be somewhat helpful. I asked
the same question a couple of bill lists ago, but good for you to follow further. But what I was told then is these are separate phones, separate places. The utilities have their phones.
The question I think that I didn't really get a full understanding of why the amounts are so vastly different for for the phones because the some of them are 700 plus dollars each month and I'm I don't know if that's like 10 phones
and then that makes sense or but if that part you know the number made sense because they're different accounts different phones charge different accounts why the amounts vary >> with the different accounts is I think the question that too. But I'm also and I don't know
and I guess you'll follow up with the council, Mr. Marks. But there's a huge bill that we should be knowing about. That's why I'm trying to engage you now. But if you'd like to share with us over email, I'll respect that. >> Similar to the recycling question, let me let me do some research so I don't
misspeak. >> Okie dokie. Madam clerk, >> Deputy Mayor Anderson, >> yes. Councelor Birmingham, >> yes. Councelor Damato, >> yes. >> Councelor Harrison, >> yes. >> Councelor Toller, >> yes. >> Councelor Williams,
>> yes. >> Mayor Baskerville, >> yes. Um, this says consent agenda for the rest. I would like to take um number six out of the consent agenda. Does anyone else have anything else
they'd like to take out of consent? >> Um, I I don't like to take out seven. >> Number seven will come out. Okay. Um, manager marks, please. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. No, go ahead. We're going to read through them all. Okay.
Thank you. >> So, item number two is a resolution awarding fair and open contract for the uh repair of Montlair Firehouse number two, which was bid 25-28. Item three is a resolution awarding a contract to fire and safety services for
the provision of one fire engine for the Montlair Fire Department in accordance with HGAC contract FS12-23. Item number four is a resolution authorizing award of fair and open contract for township landscape goods
design and native plants uh consultant services. Uh item number five is a resolution authorizing refunds of escrow uh account balances for the stormwater um escros. And item number eight is a resolution to
adopt the council meeting schedule for year 2026. >> Yes, councelor Birmingham. Can I just ask the a question on the first one about the firehouse 2 repair? Um I don't
>> I'm just so curious that the bidding the it was the low bid is 66,000 and then the high bid is 371 and that low bid is quite a bit lower. So I'm just I'm of
course I want to save money, but I this is like it just seems like a very >> disperate. >> So what you're seeing is the uh the total for 66,000 is the alternates that were chosen. So not all of these jobs
are being done. So once we prioritize which jobs have to get done in what order they're going to be done um with the funds that we have available, purchasing does a um an analysis of which combination of those things has the low bid. That's why you're seeing it
that way. >> Okay. So, because like just as an example, the alternate bid for number one, like task one, >> we chose $4,800 >> and like there's another bid of
$179,000. >> There is there's a very big difference in these bids. But >> once we decide once the fire department says, "Okay, these are the funds we have, and we have to prioritize which projects we're going to do with that."
purchasing takes over and does a bid calculation for >> I just wasn't sure I want to make sure that I get you know that >> and they are wildly different so >> yeah okay thank you >> anything else >> thank you deputy chief >> so just to be clear um hi >> hi >> deputy mayor
>> so um the work that this um that this contract is is this solely for the roof leak >> uh no so the roof leak did cause damage inside of the building which is part of the repair work that we're doing here. Um there's woodwork on the building
that's a historic building. So that woodwork is starting to deteriorate. So that's going to uh get repaired and painted. And then there's other parts of the building. So there's a progressive uh level of projects that we're going to do. Some of it is painting but we have to do some repair work before we do the
painting. So you know we couldn't get everything done that we need to this year. So, we'll have to work on those other items or or come up with alternatives down the down the way. >> Okay. So, there will be future um >> we were able to get a bulk of it done
with this. >> Anyone else? >> Madame Clerk, >> I just need a second for the consent agenda. >> Second. Deputy Mayor Anderson, >> yes. >> Councelor Birmingham,
>> yes. Councelor Damato, >> yes. >> Councelor Harrison, >> yes. >> Councelor Toller, >> yes. >> Councelor Williams, >> yes. >> Mayor Baskerville, >> yes. Thank you. I'm going to uh go down to the um
resolution designating deputy mayor of the township of Mont Clair. Um, I I was the person that um put this on here and I I did that because it needed to be done and I'd like to apologize because it should have been
done in July in order to understand that process is important. I need to take you back to how how this even happened that we had a deputy mayor. So before we got uh even sworn in, the first one of the first order of businesses that this
council wanted to do was to have a a deputy mayor. And I explained at that time that I thought that that position served to splinter people and it served to have you know pit people against each other. And I know that having been in
that position. Um, and I didn't think that that was a good good thing to do at that early date because no, we didn't know each other really. It was just, you know, I guess who ran with who or whatever people. But the overwhelming majority was interested in doing that.
At that time, there were two people that expressed interest in doing it. Um, councelor Shin Anderson and councelor Lachman. And so we agreed that it was for a year's term and that we would move forward. So however the vote was split,
it was, you know, some for one, some for the other. And and I abstained because again, I didn't feel like, you know, the the position if if I'm unable to uh do my jobs a as the mayor, then there's a position. Otherwise, it's really not. And I did
not feel like I I wanted to participate in that. So July came and we were so busy doing other things. Um you know trying to get an attorney, trying to do a lot of things and um so so it just didn't happen. So that's that's part
one. Part two is that communication has been an ongoing difficulty as you probably all know for this council. Everybody communicates differently and um there may be three people up here
that speak to me and then others that just don't even though I've expressed the fact that you know my preference is to have communication and talking and whatever and I go and I see things on agendas even when I'm chairing
committees I see things on agendas that I should definitely know about because I'm chairing that committee. committee and no discussion things get there and even when we're trying to do this whole committee thing we have no process so I agree with what you all are saying today
the problem is we as a group have not figured out how to overcome these things right people come on and I might think now that a certain person stepped out I'm I'm on a a committee or commission not ever and then walk in the room and
see some other people that are in there and some people might call that blindsided. Whatever whatever the terms are, this council needs to continue to work and move forward to learn how to communicate with with one another. I
also think that I just like to share that you know I I have been in this township for a long time and it was a different Montlair then and I know that and one of the differences was that if we had some some beef or as I heard
somebody say earlier a little funky or whatever we wouldn't just you know come and grandstand in here we especially if we had a relationship with people we would reach out to that person and say hey you know mayor Asville, I'm a little concerned. You put something on the
agenda and I'm not understanding why. We wouldn't just come in here, right, to have a grandstand and use terms that you really have no idea about why things happened or what happened before or if this is the preferred method of the council. If
people are demonstrating that over and over, it may appear that this is a preferred method. If people are doing that regularly then so in order for people to really come here and pass the judgment on on on us I it would be helpful I think if you
got you know more information and certainly I do agree we have to improve our communication here but we all have to want it. I can't continue to send emails to people and say, "Please, you know, this is not working for me. Can can we talk?" And then get, you know,
more emails, more emails, and that type of thing. So, we have to work it out here. My prayer is that we will continue to work it out. And we did talk about moving. So, no one no one was blindsided. I think people just, you know, were moving through and July came
and we did not have that discussion. And so at this point in time, I think that it's a good idea at least for the council to discuss the benefits of having rotation or, you know, if they decide that they they just
want to stick with with one one person. But I'm going to continue to encourage that we all try to work with each other. And if we all communicate differently, then I'm going to hope that each person will try to communicate with whoever it is the way that they know that person
prefers and not just continue to do things, do things, do things, and ignore somebody that is practically begging you to to speak to you to speak, you know, because that that's where we're going to have problems and that's when we're not going to be able to do the best that we
can for you. and I certainly want to be able to do the best that we can for you. So, this got on here because it was delayed from July. I know we're late. I don't know if we decide, you know, to rotate how that's going to work. Is it going to go from November to November or
what. And I don't know if there's someone else here that wants to be a um you know, wants to to be the next deputy um mayor or not. uh again the communication is isn't what it should be and I got a lot of people coming up to
me and asking me about that and many people recommended that counselor told her and they gave me a long list of reasons you know they said that she's doing things that that not other every people are doing. They talked about how she stepped up and talked about school things when not everybody was stepping
up on the council to do that. they talked about her providing um you know um um representation for the entire community. So um yes, I'm going to continue to try to um figure out this
whole communication thing here and I hope that the rest of the council will also. Um so I'd like to make a motion that we move this resolution our um well it I don't see a number here. What
number is this? Resolution designating deputy mayor of the township um Amina Toller. >> Okay discussion. >> Can I ask a question? >> Yes sir. Uh so first of all
I found out about this from a member of the public because when we got a draft of the agenda it wasn't in it and it my packet of stuff arrived on
Friday night to my house but it was online before that. So in terms of communication that's sort of an enormous breakdown. Now, I've been advocating for having an agenda creation process where we can actually look and see stuff on a
daily basis or online. So, first of all, if it was an attempt to create better communication, didn't really work on that first on that first thing. Second is if if the idea is to have it rotating as it was at previous times, which you
know, good or for ill, this resolution doesn't do the trick because it's open-ended. So it should be for a short you know for a particular period and it should have been discussed in advance >> what that might be. So >> correct
>> it just illog it just is not logical. I would also point out respectfully and gently that when we started in 2024 you were very much against having a deputy mayor. >> Correct. and had to be coaxed into
understanding that it was the law. It's the law. And we had a debate over literally the word shall and had to be remind ourselves that shall in New Jersey law means must.
I this week um rewound the tape as they say to 2019 and I watched the council meeting at which you
were royally screwed out of the position and I felt very very badly for you mayor. I did. >> You came out and spoke in my behalf and I thank you for that. Um, and it was a bad scene and it was, you know, and I can understand that that would that
would leave some scars and I just, you know, want to because we all bring what we bring, you know, and that that's fine. So, I will just say that if we're going to have it, if we're if this is going to be about process, let's do the process correctly. I also think it would
be very good to uh preface it all by an open, honest and productive conversation about what this body is and what it does and remind everybody that we are a legislature and talk about how legislators are supposed to work. And
one of the reasons why I think that this post is more than just another, you know, ribbon cutting thing is because this is the only statutory position on the council where we all
vote for that person as a leader, right? So you're, you know, the leader run the meeting and you're the mayor. But we are a parliament that doesn't have a parliamentary leader. All parliaments whether they're the US Congress, the legislature, a parliament abroad will
have a they will vote from among the body to have a person who will help them legislate and we don't our system of government which I think is a very good one. It's one flaw is that it doesn't really allow for that at least the way it's set up right now. So, I actually
think it's a quite important position because it at least is a person that when we all voted for for the deputy mayor unanimously, >> no, it wasn't. >> You didn't you you that's okay. You weren't involved. Um then that gives
them sort of like a vote of confidence that when the deputy mayor says, you know, can you help me move something along here? Go, okay. Yeah. Because like I I put my trust in you. I I actually voted for you. So, I think it's an important position. It's not the end all, but but I think that we should have
a discussion about what it's what we each think it's for. So, we shouldn't rush into it, how we work on it, and then if we want to change, and I would not personally before change because I very much like working with the deputy mayor. I think that she's helping us
legislate. She's doing what I was hoping for. And I was actually I had proposed initially um councelor Lochman for the position and I've been very pleasantly surprised at how the deputy mayor has been helping me and helping us you know
just do the nitty-gritty the the the grunt work of legislating which I think is something that we need help on. Uh so I would like to have the conversation let's keep it civil. Let's keep it about principles and if we want to have it
rotating, let's also I would just say I would be for if we missed July traditionally. I would just end by saying these things are decided at the annual reorganization meeting which is a very very crucial date because it
literally means our council ends for sort of a day and then comes back to life. And so these these things always have a reorg meeting at which these they're decided on. So, I if we were going to change, I would say to allow it
to have the natural end of this one-year cycle and then be prepared for that and then do it then and then maybe if you wanted a logical thing if there were four of us each with 6 months or whatever from the wards, but let's just
not do it as a midnight, you know, piece of legislation sprung on everybody um on a Friday night where I had to find out from from somebody and and do it right. And thank you. Thank you all. >> So I um and I appreciate your comments
today and I hope when you're going back you went back to the last meeting that we had because you know we all come here and say sometimes really nice things. If you all remember at the last meeting, the same council member lied on me and
went so far as to imply that I did not vote for an individual because they were an immigrant. Anybody in this township that knows me knows that that could not be further from the truth about who I am. And it was all that I could do to
just sit up here and give him that moment. But when you just take and make up things on people because you're upset about something that happened in an executive meeting or whatever that is talk and now talking about civility and
governance. The problem is that for one year I sat here and I tried everything I could possibly think of to encourage those things and end up somebody making casting a poll on my reputation about an immigrant.
and it was totally wrong. And then, you know, to to to say that I said something about the person that I didn't even say it was not me. I know what I said about that person. And I just think that we need to do that civility all the time. It can't be like one week now you're
feeling better, so you're going to talk very nicely and say some nice things and then one week when you're upset because you think maybe I did something. I don't understand that. We can't we can't do that. And we have to, if we're going to say things, we have to stay the truth. We can't sit up here and just make up
lies on this person and that person because that's not helpful at at all. So, we have to work on those things, all of us. I'd like to say something, please. >> Yes, Councelor Toller. Thank you. Um, respectfully, Council Damato, I
understand what you're saying. Um, I would love to hear what your thoughts are as far as putting a process and procedure in place. Um, in my personal opinion, process and procedure has been um, lacking with this governing body. Um, it seems to come into play when it's
convenient for some to get others stuff done. Um, so if we're really going to talk about process and procedures, then we need to make sure that we do it all the time and adhere to it all of the time. Um the other thing is when we recommended not recommended when we discussed this with um when we came into
office between councelor Laughman and councelor Anderson we actually flipped the coin. Okay. So you know we had a discussion. We didn't have a good discussion. We just who wanted it. It was between them. We flipped the coin >> and that's how we landed here. What we
did agree on is one year. >> Okay. July was a year that has passed. We did agree on a year. We would rotate it out. I recall and I'm sure if we go back to some of the tapes, we may even see it there. Um, but you know, I get it. It's like whatever counselor toler
needs or wants, I have to jump through hoops. The reason I ran for office is because that I saw that the fourth ward did not have a voice. Okay? And here I am sitting in this seat today and I still don't have a voice. Why is that?
>> You don't have to answer that. >> No, but I will I will tell you. >> No, no, you don't have to. The thing is >> there's one ward that's underrepresented on this council and it's the first ward. >> That's correct. >> There literally literally are seven members of the council. >> Mhm.
>> There are two from the fourth ward, two from the third ward, two from the second ward, and one from the first ward. >> Now, this is the town that thinks about things like the malortionment of the US Senate where New Hampshire gets the same number of senators as New Jersey. We think that that's an injustice. Well,
think about it here. Literally every other ward has twice the representation of the first ward. That's a fact. That is a fact. So, >> okay. And >> and if we're going to talk about representation of the wards and that was
going to be part of it. >> No, no, that was I'm talking about me actually trying to get actual work done and having to jump through hoops with my own colleagues here. That's a problem >> because it's a mindset and that mindset has to change. Okay. So, if we're really going to talk
about process and procedures, we're going to get down to the nitty-gritty and we're going to have to think and open our minds differently and understand that we are one Montlair. All wards are equal and not one ward is greater than the other ward. >> Councelor Birmingham.
Um well, councelor Demato, I will note that um the prior council had I believe one deputy mayor for the entire four years because there is no rule. Um and I
believe he was from the first ward. Y um and I don't remember in all of the time that um there was that council that term um I don't remember anybody from anywhere having an issue with one council member
be serving for that time. Now, I I'm not going to um I'm not here to um and I Yeah, I I'm not here to uh question anyone's memory. I I remember things differently. I remember
that I thought we were going with the two at large people because they had been um elected across the body and um I'm sorry, through the town and that they would each serve for two years. Again, that's my memory. Obviously,
people have different memories and I'm again, I'm not questioning um I just feel like this um what is happening and and um and maybe we should just vote and I don't need to
go on, but I just feel like this was done in a way that um I just don't support this. So at this moment, so I'll just leave it at that. >> Councelor Williams.
>> So young man came up here earlier and he was talking about the discord that he sees up here amongst us. And you know, I I think
we're not doing the community a service when they see a lot of this arguing up here. Now, I I was with some of you this weekend at various different events and smiling, having a good time and stuff like that. And I I think I speak to all of you,
>> call you and text all without except Bill. Bill, we have to get a beer or something. We got to change that dynamic. >> He's willing to do that. >> Sounds good. I'mma hold you to it. So, you know, I speak to all of you throughout the week. So, there is good
communication. I I think you know, at least from my perspective, right, with with this particular So, I I wouldn't agree respectfully with the characterization that we do not communicate. We do communicate. Okay.
This particular resolution right here was not it wasn't brought to my attention or I mean I don't know if anybody else well I I do know that it was only brought to one other person's attention before it was put forward and that created what
you see here with people coming out on different sides of of the issue which really shouldn't have been a thing. I think what I would have liked to have seen if this was going to come up here is that you put forward a resolution. There's no name on there. It also talks
about, you know, to go to a certain date and if it was a matter of rotating, then, you know, you pre-seelelect the people that are going to rotate and the dates are going to do it and pass the resolution and it's no controversy, right? and that I I I would like to see
more of that collaboration. This didn't seem this did not seem like it was in the spirit of collaboration. And I like uh councelor Toller. I mean, we we speak often. I I like Deputy uh uh Mayor Shen
Anderson as well. I I don't have any beef with anyone up here. You know, I think anyone up here is capable of being deputy mayor. and I'll work with anybody to do anything as I as I've proven, right? So, I would just like us to do a
better job at, you know, how we present ourselves to the public. That's it. Thank you. >> I respect that. And yes, you do speak to everybody. And again, um I said there were three people up here that speak to
me and during the time of of the year, um the the um deputy mayor and and my communication styles are just so very very different. And because I chose not to every single time there was stuff on the agenda that I knew nothing about, I
didn't say anything. when I thought, you know, now that um Carmel Lochman was gone, I was going to be on a certain committee because we all just decided what committees we were on and then I walked into a room and I saw somebody else was in in that committee, you know, I didn't go through the whole thing
about blindsided. I didn't come here to this group. So, people's perceptions have been and and and and for good reason because you know that y'all shouldn't know that this is not happening. But when we have people coming up here and characterizing things
and then other people here talking about the communication is good. It's it's good for you. You know, it's not good for me when I'm trying to be the mayor and have communications with everybody. And I have said numerous times the best way to communicate. And people seems
like deliberately don't do that. And they go ahead and do what they want. Put things on agendas. Don't put me on a committee when I've expressed interest. don't come back and let me know. Let's talk about that. Nothing. So, I'm saying it works for some people, but it has not
worked for all people. And there are seven people up here. As the manager used to say, he's working here for for for all people. And then not only do we have a problem here because people that work with us realize that, you know, takes four votes. So they figure out who
those four people are and then they start to you know make sure that those four people have what they want and then other people become become less important. So, we have to work on all of those things. And by sweeping it under the rug and acting like everything is is great, it's it's not going to help
because the whole year I have tried very very very very hard and nothing has changed. Because if you don't say, look, you know, enough is enough. we have to learn how to communicate or if we, you know, want to continue to act like this is all good and people are not, you
know, very rude and offensive to certain individuals, it's not going to change. So, I I I would like for change. I'm glad that if it's working for you, um, you know, that then that's a good thing. I I I've heard counselor Toller sometimes say maybe it's not working for
her. I don't know, you know, what makes it work for some and not for others, but I do want us all to learn how to communicate with one another. >> Um, I just want let's just table this number six for another time. We can have a full discussion at the next meeting.
It's 9:00. I'm tired. >> I'd like to say something. >> Okay. And before she speaks, I'll let her speak and then I'll go again. >> I don't know. Council >> Councelor Harrison, did you want to say anything? Go ahead, Deputy um Mayor.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um first of all, it's very curious. I I have to um I have to chuckle to myself because it's very easy for
anyone in town to um request emails that any of us send each other. So, I'm very um it's very curious that people would accuse some of us from not communicating um when
anyone can Oprah emails and um find that that's actually not the case. Um and mayor, you and I, we do have very different communication styles. I have been a professional for many, many years. I've worked with people with very
different communication styles and we always managed to get things done. You and I have actually managed to get things done together. Um, I'm very proud of working on this council. We've been able to pass a number of important measures for the benefit of everyone in town, usually by unanimous vote.
Sometimes 61, sometimes five, you know, 52, doesn't matter. We've been able to get things done. And so, I'm proud of the work that we've been able to do together. And I'm proud of the work that I take this role very seriously. Um, I know it's, you know, it is required by
law. um and we went through that and um it is a pretty symbolic you know it's mainly symbolic the way it's written in the stat in the ordinance but um it's something that I do take seriously because uh we all kind of I think that we all ran um for the purpose of getting
some good things done for our town and make it better and I think uh there are many instances I point to that we did that um I am a little div disappointed at the mischaracterizations and mistruths that are coming out. And again, um you know, a lot of this can be
refuted if anyone cares to uh request emails. You and I were supposed to talk on the phone. We've talked on the phone many times. We've met and you know, it's it's just disappointing that that this appeared like this. >> Um when you know, I think that even
though it's not a perfect communication, um >> we have managed to get things done and work together. So, it's just um very curious. Um it's very very curious. So, I uh and the other thing that I'll say is um you know, I was elected by people
in all four wards. Um I am not going to be intimidated or bullied or gatekeeped. Um I represent everybody in this town in every ward and I have put things forward and I have supported measures and I've written legislation alongside many of
you um on this on this dis because I want everyone to benefit from this town. Okay. So um I hope that uh you know I hope things can get better and um I I appreciate everyone's contributions on this council and thank all of you for being here.
>> Uh anyone else? No, I just wanted to piggy back off of what uh what councelor Anderson is saying. You know, I appreciate your story here and you're sharing. Um many of us have all done the same thing. >> Um I don't I can't really say what you've supported from me with the fourth
ward and what legislation you've written that have has helped the fourth ward. Um we can talk about it. You said people can open requests emails. I know for the past year I've emailed it's been a struggle to even get agenda items on committee meetings that you chair. Um, so when you say you represent that is
true that that is true. Okay. Um, I'm not going to argue with you. I just want to turn to speak to >> right. I didn't interrupt her and this isn't an argument. We're going to table this and come back to it at another day. Um, and since you represent all wards and you mentioned that people should
oper 2025 and have a look at what she thought of Junth. Thank you. So, did you make a motion? Um, >> I'm making a motion to table it. >> Okay. So, if you don't want the vote, do
you want to have further discussion then? >> So, I'll take when do you want to table it to a certain date or what? >> January. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. >> Why January? Because it might make sense
to if we're going to rotate it to to start at January 1. which would be the beginning of a >> meeting is fine or the one after that whichever the majority would like that's fine. >> Well, I'm going to if you're going to tell the time I'm in a second >> I don't have the dates and what is the
next meeting? The second one that >> the 16th meeting >> the 16th is fine. >> Thank you. >> So I will uh we'd like to table that to the >> December >> December 16th meeting. Yep.
>> Got it. Thank you. Someone um requested the resolution number seven um authorizing acceptance of grant funding for NJD communitybased deer management uh to have discussion.
>> Um I guess Dr. Johnson, she's here. Oh, she here. Great, great, great. Um is there an ordinance that goes with this? And how did you arrive at receiving this grant or making this memo to receive the grant? Hi. There's an ordinance for what? >> Is there an ordinance? I was asking.
>> There's no ordinance. >> Okay. And did you go through any committee meeting to discuss this or you just thought this was a great idea or >> Yeah. So, I don't Yeah, I don't make decisions in a vacuum. So, I consulted with many environmental groups. Um, and there's also an article in the
Monontlair local um that the MEC recommended a deer count to happen. And I also want to confirm that there's no culling at all involved with this. Zero. >> No killing. >> No killing. Yeah. No killing at all. This is just a count. We can't have a
conversation without information. And we have no idea what what what the population looks like. Um I'm an animal lover. I don't eat meat. Again, this is not about killing anything. And as far as the the drones, there's going to be
the the drone covers multiple passes. um over the township. So, it's not just going to be one night. It covers multiple passes. >> And it's strictly for surveying, right? >> Strictly for surveying. That's it. Again, we we we don't know what we have until we know what's there. We can't have a conversation without this
information. >> Do we have an ordinance on the books already regarding deer? I'm just asking. >> No, there's an there's an ordinance that there's no discharging of firearms and there's no hunting. >> Okay. >> So, that's never going to be an issue. >> Okay. Okay. Um,
all right. I thought there was one on the books, but maybe there's not. So, if it's not, that's fine. I just, you know, I envision something crazy happening like we don't want residents to have to put in new fences or get higher fences because we're doing something. >> I think there was a Yeah, there was a recom I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I
believe there was a recommendation for that >> for somebody else for homeowners >> which I don't stand with. >> Okay. But this wouldn't play into that. This would be >> absolutely not just data. That's all the only questions I have. >> Thank you, >> man. No.
>> Okay. >> Um, >> councelor Harrison. >> Okay. I I don't know, Lisa. I don't know if you have to stand there. I um This is You can sit and I I don't think I'm asking you a question. Let me address
several of the issues that member of the public came up with. And you have no idea how much I hate this issue. For 20ome years of my life, I worked with a staff, some of whom were hunters and some of them hated people
who hunted and had to deal with that and keep the peace and deal with arranging site visits by staff around hunting season, which made life difficult. But I think, you know, as Dr. Johnson said this is
not authorizing anything other than a survey. Having said that, division of fish what is I know their name division of fish and wildlife has two parts. There's
the part whose major role in life is to promote hunting. They also have another major role of conserving a lot of land in the state. Hundreds of thousands of acres that are in fish and wildlife management acres, but they do promote hunting. They get funded in large part
by hunting licenses. Um, just to give you an idea of the magnitude. Um, there have been as many as 77,000 deer killed in the state through by hunters. We're now down. And I suspect it's because a
declining number of hunters been averaging in the upper 30,000s. But it's done in a way to ensure that next year there'll be more than enough deer for the hunters to kill. And I'm not condoning this. Don't get me at all
wrong. But the concern and then I have the flip side of the concern that um that members of the public have raised to us is that the game portion of fish and wildlife
pushes a result to encourages municipalities to call the deer in their town. No question that occurs. It's been a number of towns where that has occurred. That does not mean we need to be pushed. Um I think
and my my concern with that is even if you accept the premise that killing some of the deer will reduce the population, that's not really what the game portion of Fish and Wildlife wants. They want there to be able to be
a hunt. the following year. So in the county res some of the county reservations there have been culling going on for a number of years in a row but it's not to get the deer down to a totally desirable population. It's to kill some
deer but leave enough so there'll be enough deer replacing them so the next year they can do the same thing. I don't want to be part of that and that's not solving the deer problem. The other part of this is, you know, concern about deer, but cars
killing deer is probably the least humane way to kill a deer. So, and we have had a significant number of incidents in town where cars have killed deer. I almost had an incident
a week ago driving down Grove Street going home at night. Three deer run from my car and if I had been going the speed most cars go on Grove Street, I would have hit the deer. I stopped two feet away from them. So it this is that's a real issue and it's not
oh that's okay because I'd rather have a deer shot than hit by a car because they're more likely to die quickly than it's a result of a car accident. But what I what I want to do is to and because I am concerned that fish and
wildlife and the good news about fish and wildlife its head is now someone came from the non-game part of it and is a threatened endangered species person who I've known for 30 years and so doesn't have the traditional view of the
division director of that division as to you know we have to promote hunting and give hunters the maximum opportunity in the state and I'm still trying to figure out why they're allowing hunting of coyotes when one of the means of controlling the deer population is
having a natural predator which we finally have in the state but we now and not only that their authorization for a deer hunt allows you to kill a coyote if you happen to see one while you're hunting deer which but anyway that's my
I have all kinds of issues with the game part but what I'd like to do is to suggest We amend the resolution to do two things. One, the resolution says amendments to the agreement can be
approved by the manager. I think they should be approved by the council. Rather have the public yell at us if we're going to suddenly do something inappropriate with animals than have the manager take blame. I mean this is a very much of a policy decision as to
what measures we're going to take if there needs to be an amendment to the agreement and we should do that and second to add a be further be it further resolved that that the request for proposals that'll be issued to get the entity that
is going to do the drone surveys that is issued specify that the that is issued for the grant specify that the recommendation that any recommendations in the report not include
any proposed hunting activities. So it's very clear that the recommendation that comes forth does not include killing of any deer. So they can propose whatever other measures which we may or may not follow but they they cannot and then the
proposal they know that I know some of you and I have the same concern that the entity that does most of these their reports uniformly come back and say it would be really good idea to kill some deer in your town and go amend your
ordinances to allow that to occur. So I I want to make sure that whoever bids on the proposal know that that is off the table as a recommendation they can make. And the other change to do the manager
part, the second be it further resolved would now simply read that any amendments to the agreement shall be approved by the governing body and I would like to move this with those changes. >> Second K. I'm sorry. discussion.
>> Um, yeah. So, we tabled this last time and I don't and it came up again very quickly. So, and then we have another meeting next week's and the holiday. But, >> I'm sorry. I was just trying to find out if he was tableabling it just a meeting.
I'm I am asking in terms of um would there be time to have a community meeting or if like if we tabled this to December 16th because I I'm still I in my profession you never order a test unless you know what you're going
to do with it. I'm still not sure what how you like how this you know what I mean like cuz I still I do feel like the reason you count is because then you have a justification for killing because the other and I I
know what you're saying because the but the other like the the management it seems like you can do without necessarily counting but so this is why I want to see if we could have a a discussion. I mean, the further we wait, there's only a certain amount per period when we could do a good count, right?
So, it's from December till April. So, I don't want to push it off too far because we still have to get the bids and and all of that. Um, there's always new technologies and management styles coming out just because we're not aware of it right now. Look at AI 5 years ago. It's not what it is today. So, it's not
to say that there's not going to be something that is going to be a better way to manage the deer. Again, that doesn't involve killing them at all. So, you know, for example, heat islands, right? We we know where they are. We could see it, the low albido, it's hot, but we still measure it because we need
that data. We need that data to make decisions. And it's the same thing with this. We're losing our forest. We're concerned about it. Is it the deer? Is it something else? Is it climate change? This is just another ingredient, right, in the in in what we need to have in order to make these decisions. So, this
is all I'm seeing it as, >> right? And so I'm just asking and this this is just me if it can be because what you're saying you know can there be sort of a >> yes >> do we have time or is >> we can even accept it and then have the
community meeting and then cancel the grant. We don't have to sign the contract. So this isn't signing the contract. The manager still has to sign the contract. So if we pass this, we put it on the books. I actually talked to the bureau chief yesterday um and he said that they've never forced a
municipality to have a hunt. The only time they can is if there's a public health risk or if there's a runway um and there's planes and and you know they could they could damage the the planes and hurt people. Um but he said that he's got a deer biologist and he's got
wildlife conservationists who will come to Montlair and speak with the community. So again, if the resolution's passed today, the contract's not signed. We can always cancel the contract later if after the community meetings it's decided that you know what this just isn't for us.
>> Okay. >> So we there was a a motion and a second and now um you you're you're wanting us to um table this till a later date. I just want to make sure that I'm correct because then I I I need to find
out if councelor Harrison wants to do anything differently or do you want us to have the vote on what what's on the the floor at the moment? >> Um I I I not sure we need to table it for more than one week given I the the
concern is >> we're going to have to do an RFP to get the vendor. Yeah, >> there's a time period involved in that and we're going to be start pushing up against the time when it can be done is the concern. I I think to answer part there
are many different way to deal with a deer population that is causing problems and the easiest example of the problems it's causing is the number of car deer incidents in town. the
um but and I agree with members of the public it would be better to have a drone survey at multiple times but we don't have the money to do that and one survey is better than zero because we know there's a pro problem in the Bonsel
preserve as an example we don't know the scope of the problem I have a and yes dear move but um the um But having a survey that says 10 deer, 20
deer, 30 deer can give us some idea as to the appropriate steps that can be taken in the preserve to maintain it in with native veget healthy native vegetation, none of which involves shooting deer.
And it's I'd like many drone surveys, but I think having one gives us more knowledge than anything else. And I think we have to make clear the end result is not killing deer.
>> Yeah. And um it funds multiple. So we could do it in March and April or February and April, you know. So it the the grant does fund multiple passes. Um, >> that one, >> Deputy Mayor,
>> I Thank you. Um, Dr. Johnson, I I um it sounds like I I think I'm leaning more towards acting on this with um Councelor Harrison's amendments. Um, and I do want to clarify, I just
want to ask in terms of, you know, the contractor that we actually enter into a contract with, it sounds like we have some flexibility and we we will be able to, it won't be an issue to get sort of that sort of disclaimer in um, you know that. >> Yeah. And we and we choose it's not like
the D forces us to use their contractor. We can choose the contractor we want to use. And then as as far as the ordinances that we locally have um that prohibits hunting, um I think I I looked at at, you know, parts of the code, I I
saw one about like not being able to have firearms outside your home. Um there was another one, I think, in the parks section that says there's no hunting or, you know, molesting of animals on park property, things like that. And um I I appreciate um Miss
Batson bringing this model ordinance. So, I'm just wondering if, you know, I'm thinking that maybe um we move forward with this and at the same time um look at strengthening, you know, um the laws that we have. Um >> I think that's a great idea. Yeah.
>> Anyone else? I I would agree that with the changes if we can do them now because I I don't think that people who are really dead set against this are going to change their mind. So
having a community meeting isn't really I mean we could do that but I trust Dr. Johnson. And I would also just say I really was amazed and proud when I read a lot of the mail that I got
cuz it was so smart. It was so smart and empathetic and like really a couple of letters were like the best letters I've ever gotten on any topic. Like really really smart. So for here or there, but I I would support going ahead with those modifications.
>> Council Williams, anything? Nothing. Okay. And um I could go either way. So you made a motion, I second. So uh Madam Clerk, please. >> This is for the amendment.
>> Yes. >> And I just want to make sure um the manager will be the one to execute the agreement and then any amendments will go through the mayor and council. >> Right. >> That's the first part. >> Yes. So So that the first be for the resolved or amendment should be
stricken. >> Yes. Yes. And then the second one will be the council approves any amendments. >> Yes. And then the other one is that the entity that's awarded the contract shall not recommend any killing of the deer. It'll be worded better, but essentially yes. Okay.
>> So for the amendment, Deputy Mayor Anderson, >> yes. >> Councelor Birmingham. >> I will vote on the the change of the language. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Councelor Damato. >> Yes. >> Councelor Harrison. >> Yes. Councelor Toller. >> Yes. >> Councelor Williams.
>> Yes. >> Mayor Baskerville. >> Yes. >> I just need a movement and a second for the amended resolution. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Deputy Mayor Anderson.
>> I'm sorry. Just a moment. Um, yes, there's I'm so sorry. There's there's been a request um from council, please, to allow you to come and share um >> Thank you. >> Thank you. And and we do that from time
to time just so the audience knows if the council is requesting, you know, some more information from from people from time to time, we do that. Thank you. Um, could we have a meeting, not necessarily a big community meeting, but
the thing about this issue, and I'm I'm learning it more and more, is the more you talk to people who don't know about it, the more they go, "Oh, wow." I mean, just what what councelor Harrison just shared is news to so many people. It's such a nuance, complicated issue. Is
there a way that we can come before public officials not in this setting to educate as much as we can and bring some people to so you understand the nuances? I still strongly feel we shouldn't do a
the drone counting without being very clear about what else we're going to make part of that data gathering now and over time. Um, but these are the kinds of discussion. These are great discussions to have and I want to find a venue to have that. It doesn't mean a whole community
meeting with wildlife biologists, but even just I don't know how we could do it. A couple of small meetings with a few of you or what that what that venue would be. >> My question, it'll clarify so many questions. >> Can we do that after we get um an
individual that we wanted to to work with? Can we, you know, stipulate those things at that time and figure that all out at that time? >> You know, the things that concerns I'm just thinking that we still have time um once we do that because we're going to
go with whatever ex vendor and then we're going to have time then and we might find out well no all of these people aren't thinking like us and then at that time we're not like bound to go ahead if that's if it turns out it's going a different direction. Well, what what I think would be useful and I think
but you can correct me if I'm wrong is meeting your objective. I think it would be useful after we pick the vendor. >> Yeah. >> And he can be organizing his drone flights but before he's he or she is making their recommendations
that they listen to the community as to what the concerns are. And they're concerns on both sides. And you know, they're the environmental folks who my god, the parks are being destroyed by the deer. And >> there are others who >> you know, we should live with the deer.
And but I think it would be very useful that the person who's going to write the report to us >> hear hear from the community and I will leave it to Dr. Johnson to figure out how best to set that up. Um but you know
and I'm certainly willing to be present at these but um I think that that's the way to do it because the person who is most important to hear your concerns besides the seven of us is the person who's going to write the report to us.
And I think it's better he hear those concerns before he writes he or she writes the report rather than after. >> Yes. And I'm I think I'm taking it up a couple thousand feet higher, which is I guess what I would love to do is have
the Humane Society offered this program, this comprehensive program. They do this work with communities all the time. They hear all these issues, all these concerns. And while they're called humane, >> they are actually fairly neutral. I don't know if you read their report. They talk about all the things you do
before you even consider lethal. I think it would be really great and for Dr. Johnson too for for all of us to meet with them and hear what is the robust way you want to go about this aside from this contractor there's there's other
ways we need to think about this and how we basically we can't make decisions without the right data and this won't give us data to make the decisions that I think we want to make so what else should we be doing simultaneously and
they have the expertise to provide it so maybe it's parallel discussions with a couple of you and their urban wildlife director. It'll blow your mind because they and and they have grants and they are selecting Montlair to be
their community because of who we are. So, can we have that meeting too and really get into the details around that? >> Coordinate with Dr. Johnson. >> Yes, coordinate with Dr. Johnson. >> Okay. I'm I'm sorry. Um, councelor Williams and thank you so much,
Councelor Williams. >> Go ahead. Ruby, >> just that >> I'm sorry. >> You're in the middle of the vote, so I just wanted to make sure you >> Thank you. Um, Madame Attorney, my my apologies. We should vote and then we're going to have the the discussion. I didn't know if the discussion was going
to change the vote. My apologies. >> I just That's the public participation section was over. >> Got it. Yes, it was. And then I made a decision as the mayor who precides over it that I was going to give her that because our deputy mayor here thought it would be a good idea. But I appreciate
you for bringing that to my attention. Should we vote now? >> I just have one question before the vote. May >> I guess she I asked her, she said it was Has anybody seen the application before it was submitted? Did we take a look at what the requirements were to even
accept this money or qualify? >> No, not you. I'm sure you saw it because you submitted it. I'm asking my colleagues if >> So, um, we're going to do do the vote now and then we can have further discussion. >> Thank you. >> Madam Clerk, please.
>> Deputy Mayor Anderson. >> Uh, yes. Councelor Birmingham, >> I'm abstaining. >> Councelor Damato, >> yes. >> Councelor Harrison, >> yes. >> Councelor Toller, >> yes. >> Councelor Williams, >> yes. >> Mayor Baskerville,
>> yes. >> Okay, so um was there anybody else that wanted to have further discussion or something another plan? Yes, you can certainly come forward, Doc. >> Um >> Oh, I was just going to answer um councelor Toller's question. >> I can't hear you. >> I was just going to answer councelor
Toller's question. So, thank you. Thank you. I'm looking forward to collecting good data. >> Yeah. >> Can you forward the application to the school council actually because >> that'll tell us what the guidelines are and how we qualified and what you submitted, things of that nature. That
may help you get a better understanding of what the data is going to be used for if we take a look at the application. >> Council Birmingham. >> And can you provide us with um towns that have done these counts that did not lead to culling or killing? Um that
would be great. Yeah. And then also it seems like because as councelor Damato said, people feel very strongly on both sides of these issues. Um when you go before you release the RFP, can we um make sure you know can we make
sure that there's some um collaboration there in terms of what how it's worded and everything? >> Absolutely. I look forward to working with a wide range of different groups and people. >> Thank you. Thanks, doctor. >> Thank you very much. Um, like to make a motion to adjurnn.
Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> opposed. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. >> Happy Thanksgiving.