e good evening this is the February 11 2025 conference Township council meeting this conference meeting is a meeting the township of Montclair and is being
broadcast live on Channel 34 it's streaming live on the Montclair tv34 YouTube channel it's available on demand and can and will be rebroadcast this meeting is called pursuant to the provisions of the open
public meetings act this meeting was included in the annual notice of the meeting schedule as set forth in resolution R 24- 249 adopted by the township council at its regular meeting of November 26
2024 advertised to the official newspaper on December 12th 2024 and December 19th 2024 December 26 2024 and January 2nd 2025 it was posted on the bulletin
boards outside of the municipal building and has remained continually posted in addition a copy of the annual notice is and has been available to the public and is on file in the office of the Township Clerk please stand for the
pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice or
all roll call Madam clerk please yes mayor Deputy Mayor Anderson here councilor Birmingham here councelor damato presid councelor lochman here councelor Toler good evening president good evening councelor Williams here mayor
Baskerville presid um council at this point in time our um agenda says we'll have public comment it was um suggested that we might want to
let the um firefighters do their presentation first in case any of the public wanted to have public comment I'm open to suggestions as to whether we keep it the way it is or whether we go first with the um firefighters presentation i' s h um I would suggest
that we keep it the way it is that's great okay at this time we're going to have public comment please if you have any comments that you would like um please come forward and um you have three minutes please state your
name evening good evening my name is Ed Robin okay try it again good evening my name is Edward Robin I live at 530 Valley Road in
Montclair and I'm here to speak tonight in support of the Montclair Public Library proposed 2025 budget the uh
library has submitted to the council a proposed budget and that budget includes uh among other things replacing the uh
existing windows on the first and second levels of the main library which at this time are uninsulated and result in terrible climate conditions inside the building
and also result in a tremendous waste of energy so among other things the library is proposing to replace uh the existing windows with insulated Windows which will significantly result in a
decrease in uh energy use and improve substantial Improvement in climate for uh for the town and for the country uh we are also the library budget also
proposes to uh replace the roof at the Belleview Avenue Library uh that Library roof is currently leaking anytime there is significant amount of rainfall or even
an insignificant amount of rainfall uh or snow uh the uh roof leaks and um the Belleview Avenue Library uh
walls uh are uh are endangered um and there are times when the rainfall is sufficiently heavy that it is not possible for uh the children's library at the lower level to
function um a large amount of money is spent cleaning up after each rainfall and if this proposed budget is enacted by the council uh the uh that expenditure will be
eliminated uh we're also proposing uh to restore the Belleview Avenue Library Courtyard to uh look in as much as possible the way it used to look at one time
and uh we're asking for funding to uh uh support uh funds from the state uh that will help to rectify that situation thank you very much thank you very much Mr Robins next guest please number
three sorry I thought usually two comes after one but I guess not tonight uh so I think uh I'm I'm here my name is Brad harsh um I live on Park Street in uh Montclair and I'm here on the discussion item of woodman field I've written emails and a letter to the editor
explaining why the zoning board doesn't have authority over that project and I'm happy to discuss the points with the town's attorney uh of why the Chairman's position is wrong I know he thinks otherwise but that's not what I'm going to cover today uh instead I wanted to provide some backstory from the
perspective of at least one uh B baseball family um I think you know we want to see any reasonable requests be accommodated by the Boe to accommodate the neighbors but the latest round of issues that have been raised is one of a long list of complaints that for us
never seem to end every time we've given concessions and think we have a final resolution a small subset of residents has come back to try to get more they've already gotten a lot of process and numerous concessions and we think it's time for closure in the fall of 2023 the Boe delayed awarding a contract at
residents presented alternative plans for the baseball field um they were heard out in three separate Boe meetings in that fall the Boe ended up reducing the field size by 20 ft from 385 to 365 which is a pretty big size reduction in a baseball field uh all to preserve oak
trees that were important to the residents uh the bee also agreed to to plant 94 additional native shrubs and and trees and after all the drama at the Boe meetings you know we thought we were done that work would start on the field and it would be ready for the spring 2024 season but that's not what happened
because some residents then threatened to sue the township they claimed that the whole project needed to go before the zoning board which as you know uh I think is wrong the town then issued stop workk orders just as construction was getting underway and then this prompted the Boe to
sue um the litigation then delayed construction for five more months and the 2024 mounties missed their spring season at Woodman field as a result but the town ship in the bu finally settled the lawsuit and gave residents a second round of concessions which was
retractable netting being re relocated a chain link fence was removed additional Landscaping was planted at S6 Avenue and once again we were thought we were done with that process after all that drama but again um because the settlement slate it stated that no more land use process would be imposed at that field
and the whole point of the settlement is to provide finality but the residents tried to appeal to the zoning board to get more they claimed they weren't represented even though the whole reason the town uh got involved was to vindicate their interests and the main issue in the litigation was whether the
zoning board had authority to impose land use restrictions I think the prior Council was done with this but now that we have a new set of counselors It's all it's all gone uh it's all on the on the table again and the residents seem to be wanting to get a third bite at the Apple
and my point is that the bu's heard them out the town went to bat for them and they got numerous concessions along the way and from our perspective it has to be closure thank you thank you very much next guest please number four good evening good evening um I've
got to say I'm not here to speak about it but the Woodman field uh debacle is really awful the vast majority of us in this town do not play sports the vast majority of us in this town will never use that field but the vast majority of us will suffer the consequences of the pollution that it's going to cause over
the next you know several hundred years just plastic covering real grass is so destructive to the environment and to the planet I just cannot believe it's happened and I wish you would just you know say let's just tear it all up and forget the money because it's not worth
it's not worth polluting all of us you know that plastic grass it's just disgusting and the selfishness of a few who just really want their kids to play on plastic even though it gives their kids cancer in the long run just blows my mind I'm here actually to talk about the shelter Ean would you please state
your name for Rachel Ean Rachel Quinn Ean thank you I've been living in Montclair for 23 years now I've been coming here for way too long um I wanted to talk about the shelter again I know that some of you are denying that there's anything any discussions going
on about closing that shelter but a lot of us know what really is happening and I'm I wish you would look into it um it didn't open on Sunday or today it's severely understaffed you've got two people working from 4:30 until 8:30 in
the morning 7 days a week for minimum pay they're going to burn out people haven't you haven't posted the the town hasn't posted for the staff that's needed and um it's absolutely exhausting I would imagine uh and also we still are not rescuing animals unless they you
know got lost in Mont glair like that's just so sad there should be no borders for animals um we were you know doing an extremely good job and very proud of our shelter very very good job in rescuing animals no matter what where they came from I'm really appalled I'm I'm every
every time every week that shelter is being eroded just you know like last time everyone said oh we're not discussing selling it but I'm coming to say now it's so under sta it's under staff now and now we're closing our doors on days so things are changing up there
um uh I'm also you know very concerned that uh we're not we're really not hearing any anything any response back from the town manager on what uh you know are there any plans to start taking
animals from from outside again like we've all asked for this is it just a done deal that we're no longer going to rescue animals unless they're from Montclair that just seems really really wrong um and again I believe that the shelter is being diminished so that it'll get to the
point where it will be broken and we can easily say why don't we just close it down and sell this valuable piece of property and let some developers put up some luxury apartments that is what is happening here slowly but surely I'm hoping that at some point we're going to
get some good media attention because we're not going to go away a lot of us are talking about it thank you thank you next guest please good evening good evening Johanna coxer 165 Lincoln Street I think you can guess
why I'm here and since I have a terrible memory I will be reading this to you do not close our shelter for a real estate deal this shelter is universally beloved by everyone in the
town it's the best one I've ever seen it's the best run it's one of the things I'm happy to pay my taxes for my husband and I got our cat Lola from the animal shelter when our elderly cat passed away our younger cat was lonely we explained to the volunteers that we wanted another
cat for our cat they showed us a cat from a lab in the South she she was remarkably resilient whatever she'd been through she came out she met us they let us interact with us we brought her home got along great with our
cat and we owe that great fit to the volunteer that had worked there for years this is institutional knowledge that this shelter has we even have a nonprofit the friends of the animal Monclair animal shelter
how rare is that to have a nonprofit for your shelter it's that beloved would be unconscionable to close it mayor Baskerville and everyone on the council don't let it be your legacy that the animal shelter closed during your
time here thank you thank you very much next guest please uh good evening Sarah Avery good evening Lola with attorney Garcia's assistance continues to dismantle democracy eliminating accountability and
transparency with this council's cooperation No Agenda missing resolutions conning counselors into submissiveness for The public's information Lola lives 60 Mi away in
Briel at 107 Cedar Lane on a Halfacre lot and Janice tally lives 90 M away in Esopus New York at 60 Apple Tree Road on 4 and a half acres overlooking the Hudson tally does not even live in New
Jersey as required by law the township of Monclair once considered Progressive is a shadow of its former self cannibalized by Dev developers aided and embedded by the town's planner and manager every serious issue we face in
this town was created By Janice tally parking scarcity flooding Reckless speeding disenfranchisement all thanks to Janice tally Township properties have been deliberately neglected and allowed to fall into disrepair by the planner and
manager who collude with developers to enrich themselves the manager thinks Montclair taxpayers should P buy a Mustang for the health department when we have at least 30 usable vehicles in the parking lot to thank the director
for the swell job she did convincing you to approve the shared service agreement with West calwell that agreement does not reflect cost of a vehicle plus gas insurance and repairs to commute from 205 to each of
the three towns covered accountants aren't trained to provide nursing services and nurses aren't trained to do accounting the CFO should have been part of the process shame on you for forcing the residents to shoulder overhead costs for another
Community professional service contracts State the vendor shall notify the township when 70% of the not to exceed amount has been expended the vendor must stop all work until the resolution is approved you cannot approve an increase
to the 2024 clear contract after the fact State statutes prohibit attorneys from procuring services for a in excess of the not to exceed to restore public confidence I suggest shutting down the
health department and the office of sustainability for starters both of which are nothing but more than public graft thank you next guest please good evening my name is Nancy Ayan Souther at Essex Avenue excuse me
on April 17th the neighbors filed an appeal on Woodman field this is concerning Woodman field the appeal was unanimously granted with the following parties present the lawyer for the Boe the lawyer for the town and Mr harsh representing the baseball families since
that time the neighbors have implored the town to follow M Montclair Municipal land use law it doesn't seem that that should be such a heavy lift for Montclair to enforce its own laws but you and and the previous Council have dragged your feet for almost 10 months
to the detriment of the neighbors who lived there we waited for months to have the constant clanging subside your inaction has caused us harm and may also cause harm to others since
things like parking and traffic flow to name a few have never been addressed we ask you to follow the law and not pass a flimsy courtesy review where no one is held accountable and I
have to respond to Mr hsh's comments because I just want to say that those are his opinion and some of those are not fact we never were going to file a lawsuit that
is not why they uh Dr ponds filed the lawsuit we had nothing to do with that that was his choice and clearly their choice too because obviously Mr harsh was involved
thank you thank you next guest please good evening everyone good evening I'd first of all like to thank each of one of each one of you for your service to the town that I love fourth generation native of Monclair New Jersey
educated here my children as well we still here live here currently and I'm the chairman of the Salvation Army excuse me Allison did you state your name Allison Sergeant I thought I did sorry uh and this is about Woodman field
my family is owned a home on Champlain terrorist for over 70 years and have done nothing but serve the field and all the kids generationally still now uh I come before you just with a precedent
question it's about judgment it's about the towns the oath that I'm sure each of you take to sit here tonight I don't believe in pettiness I'm a principled person I think that we did not follow the laws
that are set forth by the town um it could be a he say she said it has been but in truth uh this was not done properly and I would invite you all to come to my home at Champlain Terrace when the board would like to meet and
I'd love you to just take a walk I have pictures of the before actually many generations worth and I'd like you to see what was there before and what is there now and I only want what's best for this town and nothing else judgment
needs to Prevail the law has to Prevail and each one of you need to understand that the precedent you set with this case is going to be brought before you for years to to come and when someone else is in your seats they'll ask about this I would just ask you look into it
do the right thing I personally am asking for nothing else but that thank you so much thank you next guest please number nine good evening good evening my name is David Su I live at 249 Orange Road um
I'm the father of a 15-year-old baseball player uh for Montclair High School uh the question I have is why are we here I know why I'm here I'm here because after the debacle that happened surrounding the baseball field last year every time Woodman field is on the
council's agenda I and parents like me will be here to support our kids their passion for their Sport and their pride in representing Clair high school and we will continue to oppose their use as the rope in a sort of
intram Municipal tug of war but what I'm less sure of is why we are here discussing this issue the field Renovations are complete tryouts are just a few short weeks away and the kids want to play on their home field they want to become a team where they worthy
of their new field in the 2025 season and Beyond they want to play a level at a level of excellent excellence and act with a level of comportment that gives their high school pride that gives their Town pride and even gives their neighbors
Pride I'm hearing that there are adjustments that need to be made and I think that is often the case after any large contract or any project is completed and we want to be neighborly and we want to have a relationship with the neighbors and we would be supportive of any sort of reasonable adjustments
that need to be made but we don't need to go through the Town Council about it this neighbors can settle this between themselves and I'd ask I don't know what needs to happen or what action they're asking to take but I just ask that we do what we need to do to let the kids play
and to get this issue behind us as quick as we can thank you thank you next guest please I'm short hi I'm Lin stockhammer I live on Forest great um I really wanted to thank um everyone on the council and the manager whoever was responsible for following up after
Council Williams um community meeting about the Culvert on far on Forest Street off of Glenridge Avenue and the autot Top Shop um Council Anderson you wrote me back an email today um when I followed up to see what would happen and I hope we can get an update at the end
of this meeting um I am left with a question it seemed as if immediately following the meeting which was on the 30th that on the 31st almost all of the refu was picked up um there's still remains um refuge in the Culvert um and
itself and the question remains to um what was the answer as it sounded as if um you were saying that there was no determined cause for the toxic smell from Tony's Brook which um abuts the autot top shop so I hope we can get um
an update I was also hoping hoping for an update on the Zen City contract and the spyware Mr F you had indicated that I thought at um Council Williams meeting that it was off the table and then it sounded to me like it was still being
considered so um I I think a lot of residents would like clarification on that um which is you know primarily spyware and there are different versions of it other than the Zen City one um and I really don't understand what this software does and would love some
clarification um I really really wanted to thank you mayor Baskerville and everyone else who was involved on the know your rights campaign on the township website um this is primarily for immigrants but I would urge that
any immigrant any Refugee any friend of Ally of any Community member of and our fire department and our Police Department that every and the county level um I don't know how much control we have over that is informed as well to
communicate that information um and I don't know how many people are going to pass around the know your rights material it was absolutely I haven't delved into it but it was absolutely spectacular that in one place
you were gathering resources um I've been trying to do that for different friends and families I know across the country and within Essex and this was a really helpful efor but I I would want also to make sure that everybody in the police department and the fire
department and every Municipal level um knows about this so that it can be people can be protected and it can be executed and people know what to do and for people to communicate um it was great that it was um that some of these resources are also easily available in
Spanish and I think with the ACLU there are different languages um there's you know a lot with our Latino community thank you thank you very much next guest please hi um Anna Gman 63 ess6 Avenue
I.E Woodman field um didn't prepare anything but I did see that some people came to speak about this so I just wanted to provide another perspective uh number one nobody wants to undo the field that is not what this is about
that field is built you guys won you won you have your field you have your plastic field it's there it's not coming out at least for another 10 years so that's not what it this is about nobody wants the kids to be put through this again the adults are the one who screwed
up and the kids shouldn't be paying a price for that number one number two absolutely nobody ever threatened to Sue and the only reason why Mr harsh is saying that is perhaps because Mr Lola and Mr Burr said that we were which was
not true and there that's what you get you create an environment in which we neighbors were vilified because you guys said that we were suing we never sued why would I sue my own town so my taxes get raised so my Schoolboard taxes get raised uh why would I do
that um this is a question of quality of life we've been having a real problem for four months with clanging poles we have are going to have a bigger problem with um bleachers that are 15 ft from the property line we appealed
permits as is our right to do I'm not a lawyer I'm not going to pretend to be a lawyer I know how to read and I read a lot and if you look in New York state um the appell at court has issue judgments that school boards are um
um have to abide by zoning uh in in many situations they're not exempt from zoning and the only reason this came up is because I was told so from Bernard paa who's the director of school facilities funding at the New Jersey doe when there's a problem I research it's
from my photojournalism background that's what I do when I don't know something I ask questions I called the NJ dooe I spoke to Bernard paa and Lenny colner his assistant on a one-hour phone call in October of 2023 and it was Mr Pia who said when it's a school facility
and it's a non-educational facility it has to go before at at least the planning board if not the zoning if it needs variances period That's where this whole thing came from from the NJ doe themselves however it's done it's in the
past we want to move forward but we need our quality of life back and in the same way that we should care about all Neighbors in Monclair who are going through problems like our neighbors at Greenwood I would hope that the dads who have kids in baseball would start caring
a little bit about wooden field neighbors this isn't about an apple that we want to bite out of there's no apple there thank you next guest please hi RX 316 Park Street um I'm really just speaking uh on behalf of
other neighbors tonight um The Neighbors at 50 Greenwood just to say that um those of us in the community hear you um and want to support you and want to get you in housing that is
safe um that's that's first and foremost and second our neighbors at Woodman field it's really upsetting to come here and hear people say things that are just not
true tonight it was said that as if the the baseball team can't play baseball like the field is not going to be allowed to be used which is just not true I come from a baseball family my husband was in the Little League World
Series and plays in five softball leagues this is not about baseball it's not about the kids playing baseball they got their field as Anna just said please our neighbors have been through so much
with this field and it just continues with the noise if anybody here me included had constant noise outside of my window I would really really hope that the council and fellow residents would come
and help I don't understand why this is still going on now and uh I would love to hear why um these why these issues are are still not being being fixed um
both at 50 Greenwood and at Woodman thank you very much thank you next guest please hi good evening my name is Lonnie summer Padilla and I'm a resident of Montclair um I wanted to bring up given
that we're in or entering budget season um the fact that we have a an Administration in the White House who is about to dismantle the Department of Education which means that our schools
are going to have less funding than they did before um Title One Services things like that that are unbelievably expensive to fund are going to be wiped out so I've
been here many times before to talk about Pilots um in terms of allocating pilot funding to our our district our school district I don't know um if that's still something that uh could be
considered um I know our Township budget is also incredibly tight um I appreciate that um but I really just encourage you given that you are a new Council to really look at the budg
holistically and have conversations with our Board of Education with our superintendent um because our kids and their education and their future are at stake thank
you thank you next guest please hello my name dear mayor and counselors my name is Colleen doery and I live on Warman Street there is a concept in accounting called an opportunity cost it asks simply for
every dollar spent what are we unable to spend those same funds on but are not in other words what opportunities are we missing by not having those funds every budget from the largest to
the smallest has to cover contractual expenses first fire suppression Personnel falls into this contractual category even if the number of personnel Remains the Same the dollars needed will
increase year overy year because we are contractually obligated to increase salaries because health Insurance costs and other benefits increase other expenses may be decreased in order to balance the budget because
of these increases do we need 71 firefighters or 77 or another number I am not an expert in fire suppression services and I don't know the answer but I am guessing there
are Benchmark metrics we can use or professionals that we can hire to help us get to the right number and I consider that money well spent to get a thoughtful and correct number what is the opportunity cost of
hiring more firefighters than we need simply to maintain the same number of people as the prior year do we give up recreational services do we give up Senior Services do we give up our need for safer streets
I would also recommend thoughtfulness when deciding whether we need to rehab the fire building on Cedar Avenue Cedar Street sorry since it has not been in use is it Avenue sorry since it has not been in use has there been a
great need for it or have we been able to maintain services without it what is the opportunity cost of renovating the fire sta this fire station is it the police station or town hall both of which I believe are in desperate need of
improvement in the future if there are new hires needed for the fire department I ask that we give preference to hiring people who live in Monclair thank you for your time thank you next guest please thank you mayor and board members
my name is Hela ganam uh from Valley Road Clair been a resident for 18 years my husband 35 years both kids in the district so um I want to first of all thank you for allowing us to put a crescent lighting this year to celebrate
Ramadan this is a big big big step for Monclair um and you know it it I remember when I moved here 18 years ago on social media they were talking about uh getting a Eid celebration here uh like one day off school and I remember
the hate comments on the Facebook groups and I that's when I was like oh Monclair is really not as diverse as it TS itself to be it took us about 18 years to get um a day you know off so now we're thank you for your support again for the
Crescent lighting um and showing that there's diversity in Monclair and standing by the Muslim Community uh while we see other states and even some townships are silencing our voices and failing to embrace our community and you
are making it integral part we do hope that in the future you will sponsor us like you sponsor the tree and the manora and everything else and that we're not left for ourselves to sponsor ourselves because that will send a really good message that you are embracing the
community with its diversity truly I want to just read a list of all the neighboring towns who are actually sponsoring the Crescent lighting caucus Englewood Cliffs little fairy ten fly River Vil Little Falls Franklin Township
Township of Washington Leonia uh Dumont tck can I keep going uh harbrook height Palisades edwater West Orange Franklin Lakes New Milford
Waldwick Edgewater it I mean there's um there's many more there's like 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 paramis North cwell 17 other 17 towns so we really hope that Monclair will jump on
that and will really truly show that it's a diverse town thank you so much thank you very much next guest please good evening everybody good evening I will tell you I'm more nervous here than I've been on your side speaking um I'm here about the firehouse
and really to kind of give you guys an understand understanding of what was transpired of regarding the firehouse counselor for the people that are at home can you tell your name thank you oh David Cummings 8 Pleasant Avenue mon New Jersey thank you um so first of all we
uh looked at that firehouse and realized that it needed to be structurally repaired because it was really bad and so that's where funding was support but in the meantime uh had meetings to discuss a renovation of it um and that
renovation was one that was come at a minimal cost because there were ways that we could get funding to do that and the plan was actually to bring in uh to increase we first we brought in historic architect because it's historic building who gave us a rendering um of the
building that included also parking so because currently when when the building was open the firemen had to park on Harrison Avenue and part of that deal was what we were going to do is through the use of Green Acre funding we were going to basically use some of those
funds to to do the renovation uh which would include an extension on the back and extension on the left-hand side um and then by using Green Acres where we got into some discussions that lawyer would have to look into we would have to
give the it's funny to say this Glenfield back property because we would be using some of the park property that is not currently the fire department on on that land and so what to give back would be some of the parking lot that is
adjacent behind the park behind the fire department because so you give back equally what you take and so that way that would qualify for the Green Acres funding the other source of funding was cdbg money because that funding could be used because the firehouse could become
a polling place where you now and I saw where the schools having difficulty potentially because of the calendar of being of taking pulling out of the schools and so there are ways to do this in a way that is not a burden on the
taxpayers but also delivers a property that I think is very important centrally located between third and fourth ward um you guys may remember about 10 or 15 years there was a horrible fire on Stonebridge court but a complete house was turned down so access and you know
response time are things that were all considered and finally I think you know what you really also also need to take in consideration you don't have many Municipal assets this is a municipal asset and I think you need to look at what we did with Grove Street where
Township sold the building years later clearly we could have used that building um so I think it's there's a lot that you all need to take into consideration behind the move to potentially not save this Firehouse but keep it here for
safety so sorry that I'm going over U seen a lot of people get more time than they deserve in the past Take Care thank you counselor Cummings next guest please miss Nick how are you I'm good I'm good even evening everyone mayor and
council members and residents of Montclair my name is Katherine Nicholas I am a 80-year resident of Monclair and I'm here not only on behalf of
myself but on behalf of a good friend of mine that asked me to come and speak because she couldn't be here and so I'm going to read this letter that she wrote to you the council
members good evening mayor basille Town Council Members and Monclair residents my name is Anita Mack and I lived in Monclair from 1953 to
1974 moved to East Orange New Jersey for 24 years and then returned to Montclair in 199 after my father passed and I have lived here ever since I went to Nishan
Elementary School Hillside Junior High and graduated from Monclair High School in 1969 I taught in Monclair school system from 1974 1978 and became a voice in the community for justice
for marginalized students in the school system and so although I am not able to attend this council meeting tonight because of a previous engagement I wanted to make sure that my voice was
heard about the firehouse on the corner of Cedar Avenue in Harrison Avenue in the fourth ward south end because I grew up a block away from the firehouse and now live in the house I grew up in on
Harrison Avenue I have found memories as a child visiting the firehouse on school trips from Nishu watching my mother work on the voting polls there forging friendly relations with the firefighters who were assigned there
throughout the years and knowing that the firefighters would be able to come to my resident and other residents in that area if needed in a timely matter the call and response time for firefighters
assigned there I am sure would be much shorter than coming from Pine Street of Valley Road so my question is why would you close a firehouse that started that you
started to repair having firefighters and residents believe that it would reopen how are you going to service the predominantly African Southend fourth W of town in a timely manner
2 seconds what is the antidotal and actual data that shows response times due to the closing of this Firehouse I see this town which prided itself on making concerns a
priority make sure that all my clarans no matter where they live would be treated in a fair and just manner is no longer true make this right and listen
to the community and the fire fighters do what is right and not what is financially expedient to the town respectfully submitted Anita o m and may
I just say I am agree in agreement with Anita I think there needs to be more research done on specifically closing that Firehouse down thank you thank you very much next guest
please hi um Tony Martin 41 North Fullerton Avenue uh I'm here because I basically want to talk to you about these excellent Watchdog residents that we have here and
how the flow of information must always be open to them there was some difficulty in uh acquiring information of um the agenda packet was incomplete for the public and the documents were
were not there I want to tell you a little bit about why that's so important and to urge you to honor the commitment that you all made to transparency um I I
um I had a council member at a previous Council call me at home once and tell me that um I needed to stop coming and speaking so often because it was hurting our cause um we were organizing for rank
control at that time and we had residents come in every week and talk all the time and um and this counselor thought that we were um you know creating some resentment among uh
counselors who got tired of listening to us well don't ever get tired of listening to us because you know we're you we bring the information to you and we need the information from you so that we can
protect everybody's interest you've heard neighbors speaking for Neighbors tonight I love that you know people who aren't in the same neighborhood at all but come up here to talk to you about that um so um the point I just really
want to emphasize is um you be Watch Dogs we're we're Watchdog citizens those of us who have the time and can put in the energy um and we're watchdogging it for everybody not just
ourselves and I need you to be watchdogs for us so that we always can have the information to come here and make coherent helpful suggestions to you um you know I I I even before I saw
David Cummings here I I was prepared to quote him um actually his mother um he used to se often when he sat at this Podium say what goes on in the dark always comes out in the light well um let's let's just keep the
lights on thank you very much thank you next guest please hi my name is Noah Gail I am I'm going to turn over here actually so that way I can um see the audience one thank
you to the fire department for being here tonight we really appreciate your service and thank you for everything you do to keep us safe and secure number two number
two um I agree with I don't know if you're still here is Lonnie Sumer Padia still here okay I know but I agree with what she said we're on the verge of having our education department being taken away from not just Monclair but
the whole country and I really hope that um there's a way we can figure out funding for our country but especially in our beloved hometown of Monclair New
Jersey cuz in the past for several years year after year after year after year we have seen staff being cut which is not okay and I want to know if well maybe
it's more appropriate bring this up by the Board of Education mean not a town council meeting Township council meeting but I wanted to bring it to your attention because anyway because I I'm just hoping that like
um teaching positions pair professionals are not being cut teachers save students lives every day thank you thank you Noah next guest please
Bill Harrison I was hoping not to be here tonight I watched the meeting up to now until my arrival and one couple of things I used to be a baseball dad so I understand where they're coming
from to if anyone has any questions about whether they Board of Education Le legally needed to apply to the board of adjustment call as Miss grman did the Department of Education and they'll make that very clear to you or you can read
the Clifton case where there was no question that board of adjustment had jurisdiction that involved the school but that that's not why I'm here tonight there is a solution I've talked to a couple of you I've talked to your attorney that one protects the rights of
the neighbors whose rights have been denied throughout this two enables the baseball players to play and three gets the Board of Education before the board of adjustments so the neighbors will get
their day in court or before the board as the saying goes and they can express their views and we can determine whether any enforceable conditions need to be imposed on the board it's a simple matter they apply we are reserving days
on our agenda but we have other applicants we need to hear that we can hear them get it over within one night have everyone their say and have it done and to the baseball parents your real
complaint is with the Board of Education they are the ones who are potentially putting the ability to use that field at risk the neighbors have been exceedingly benevolent about not doing anything um legally and they've said they will not
but there is a risk that at some point someone is going to sue and say you had no right to build this field and a court is going to agree because they didn't get approvals
governing bodies Township managers business administrators whatever do not have the ability to Grant site plan approval and that's what happened here and if there was no lawful site plan of field the field is not legally there how have them
apply so the field is legalized and the players can use it now and forever more or until the turf wears out and we have another discussion another day good night thank you very much next guest
please good evening mayor and councel uh Hava fle sad here you're president and first founder of the tenants organization of Montclair the advocacy group that brought us front control with the community uh tonight
again keeping it light just want to um acknowledge that we had a great turnout for our meet and greet this evening and our next one will be on February the 25th of 202
25 we grew again and we are working um steadily on our radio show we're going to disseminate a lot of information on the community and have a great time we welcome back one of our interns as well who's finishing up his work at American University we will be be participating
in more events as the months carry on you'll see us out a lot more and we do provide training and we also make sure that our residents our tenants know their rights and um their rights about retaliation in particular I would like
to highlight one thing that if you um are looking for an apartment and a posting is made and the posting or advertisement includes specific things and then you go to rent that apartment and those specific things are there and then later not offered or taken
away you um can make sure to reach out to us uh there are violations if there are violations cracks and ceilings uh things that are falling apart that are not being addressed we do help you to organize and also get everyone to the
right assistance within the township we have a lot of neighbors who are now reaching out to code enforcement to enforce violations that are happening and at length we have people who have had to move out of locations due to
in situations or circumstances where their Apartments have been unlivable and they're still paying rent so we want you to reach out to us so we can get you the help you need and also get you to the landlord tenant advisory committee for all the things that are beyond our scope
you can reach us at tenants organization Montclair gmail.com and we look forward to seeing everyone at the next meet and greet and the one after that and the one after that thank you all have a good night thank you very much next guest
please man no more speaker thank you very much Mr fan um seeing none we've been presented the um minutes from the regular meeting held on January 28th 2025 and the minutes of the special
meeting held on February 3rd 2025 are there any corrections or additions to the minutes that have been presented seeing then I'd like to make a motion to accept the minutes second all in
favor I all opposed any abstentions abstain okay good evening everyone we're up here to read a proclamation about Black History Month because it's black history month so just
indulged me a little bit did not bring my glasses so if I make any mistakes don't laugh keep it down to a minimum we'll get through this together okay Proclamation for Black History Month whereas Black History Month is the month in which we bear witness to the Progress
written excuse me thinking about those crispy Cream Donuts on on my desk um we bear witness to the progress Rich richness diversity of the African-American achievement and whereas during the 1920s an African-American named Carter G Woodson created and
promoted negro history week which was celebrated in February because it included the birthdays of Frederick Douglas and Abraham Lincoln and whereas in 1976 the monthlong celebration was implemented as a time for Americans to reflect on both history and teachings of
African-Americans a history which goes back thousands of years beyond that of slavery and includes some of the greatest most advanced Societies in the history of human existence and whereas black history is American history and the contributions made to our nation by
people of African descent are numerous and vital part of the fabric of our society and whereas celebrating Black History Month helps us to appreciate the diversity and character of our region and highlights the importance of sharing our culture customs and traditions with
those around us now therefore the mayor and the counsel of the township of Monclair do hereby declare February February as Black History Month in Monclair we encourage everyone to join us in in this month long celebration learning more about the collective
Ingenuity creativity culture and traditions of the rich African-American Heritage we call upon all Americans to learn more about the history of African-Americans and to observe this month with appropriate programs and activities and to accept this I would
like councelor Cummings come up and accept this on behalf of the community you want to say you want to say a few words you want me to say a few words okay hey Doc pleasure appreciate
it um this is totally off the cuff uh but I will say thank you for the council acknowledging um Black History Month um I just received a text that Google is taking down Black History Month off its
calendar so I think there are we still have a long way to go um but at the same time I am proud to say that my Township that I grew up in that my parents grew up in uh as one that has been a place of
a Beacon of Hope um look on that side there and I see the people who serve this community um is I'm just happy and pleased to be able to say that I too had that opportunity but the only reason or one of the reasons was being able to see
folks before me I think that's very important particularly for young black people young black girls and boys to see others in positions that they one day can aspire to be and so as Dr Baskerville is the first woman to be a
man May elected mayor um I think it says a lot and I think it also represents this Township and I'm very deeply honored that you would think about calling me up here I would have dressed better if I known but um it's uh but trust me it's much better to be here
where I am than where these guys are so I uh accept this and you know let's put it up somewhere strong thank you thank you all right I'm going to keep this okay at this time in our agenda um we're
very appreciative to have um representatives from our fire department and if you would please come forward uh we're going to have a presentation on fire house three good evening Chief and deputy
chief thank you for joining us there you go as I said good evening everyone mayor counsel Mr Lula Miss NZ Mr Garcia I am Rob Duncan the fire chief of the Monclair fire department I have with me Mike laula the deputy chief of the fire
department I'm sorry Mike oh too many mics I was like I get confused all these mics this mik got him this mic got me this one time I was talking there was like four mics around I'm like oh my gosh but uh Mike Lea Deputy Chief of the mclair fire department um we've been asked to uh do a brief presentation on
uh the status of fireh house fire station three and um the need for it so we have a handout to handout to you all so you can follow along it's just a copy of what's going to be on the PowerPoint thank you very much I do not know where everyone's uh
education level stands on a fire service so we're just going to start right from the right from the basics and just go through we're going to move through the Powerpoints pretty quickly and if anyone has any questions we can just ask them at the end so this is how the fire department operates this is an engine company it carries water and hes the primary
function is fire extinguishment it is equipped with extrication tools those are things like the jaws of life for extrications and whatnot minimum Staffing is one officer and two firefighters this is a truck company has the 105ft aerial ladder on top it carries ground ladders an array of tools
for rescues the primary function is to search and remove victims from a fire the minimum Staffing is one officer and two firefighters this is the Battalion Chief Battalion Chief is a t commander of their shift they serve as The Incident Commander of all types of incidents they're lead the leader of their
assigned shift and they're responsible for overseeing the day-to-day activities of their group this is how the fire department is structured um sometimes I think that when we say we have 70 something firefighters people think that there's 70 some odd firefighters on duty at one time in Monclair um that's not the case
they're broken up into four different shifts and these are how these shifts are uh broken down so as an example group three is working today so when you look at Battalion Chief 3 that is that would be the group of individuals that would be working that shift we have one
officer per apparatus one officer that leads the shift and two firefighters per apparatus these our fire stations is fire headquarters the address one Pine Street at this location we have one engine one truck and a battalion
chief this is station two that address is 58 Valley Road at this location is engine two and truck two this is station three at 151 Harrison Avenue here is our only single Firehouse um it is for engine 3 it was
built in 1904 it was originally housed a uh horse drawn carriage over the years the building has deteriorated and suffered due to the weight of modern fire apparatus and lack of capital investment so the project status what's been completed so far the building was closed in July
23 for structural repairs the engine was reload to headquarters on Pine Street 500,000 was allocated for structural repairs the structureal repairs were completed in 2024 the project came in under budget with 173,000 remaining the structural repairs left the building
uninhabitable what's needed to complete the project um will be and the estimated cost of construction finish the building is somewhere in the mid 600 thousands to the low Millions um the wide range is due to rough estimates to complete a project would ensure the health and safety of the firefighters it would
create separation of the contaminated spaces where the apparatus and Equipment are stored from The Living Spaces we would seek to use as many energy efficient um components as we can um we still do have the 173,000 left which could be appropriate towards that as well the uh sole cost of finishing a
project is the cost of construction to make the building habitable there are no additional Personnel cost associated with completing this um building the apparatus that was there engine 3 is currently in service and staffed it's just located at headquarters instead
this is simply an investment improving existing Township infrastructure the NFPA and ISO that uh NFPA is the National Fire Protection Association it states the first engine must be on scene within 4 minutes 90% of the time the insurance Service office
their guidelines suggest that the engine company should be located no more than 1.5 miles from its first due response district there have been operational studies completed on the fire department in the past the three separate operational studies were conducted in
1982 1989 in 2006 the fire department facilities were one of the areas evaluated one of the quotes from the study in 82 says an important measure of the level of fire protection provided is a maximum response distance to the most remote locations in the
community the need for a new fire headquarters was identified in one of the studies the two earlier studies proposed that truck one and engine 3 engine 3 is the one that's a station three and that's in a couple of studies proposed that those two would be combined instead of engine one and truck one but they would be housed in a new
facility optimally located in the south end of town an alternate less ideal location at Pine Street and Bonfield Avenue was also identified where we are currently located in in 2004 the current fire headquarters housing truck one and engine one was opened the three studies
conducted over a 2 um year period are in consensus that it's essential to have a fire station located in the south end of town the ideal location for a fire headquarters were not feasible the current location of fire headquarters resulted in the need to keep station three operating for the safety of the residents of the third and fourth
WS this next slide just shows different response times for reports of fire in in station 3's District so we did reports a fire because we respond differently based on you know what the nature of the call is we're not going to respond the
same way to a car lockout as we would to you know a report of a burning building excuse me I have a question these response times you're saying that for example you have Harrison Avenue uh where it says 1 minute and 37 seconds that's coming from pin or that response time coming from station three or Pine
Street the time on the left is is is coming from station three okay so but if you have to come from Pine Street then we look at the second column correct thank it to what period is this for is this last year or no this is over a period of time just responses at at
Station 3 all for reports of fires we we looked over a so this is EXC years it's more yeah this is over years and it reports of fire we just and we wanted to pick out different areas not from just you know all over of the areas of the District of Station 3 so if we flip to the next map you'll see that the next
page you'll see this so we wanted to get sampling of not just you know areas that were very far south but areas that would be distributed all throughout engine 3's response uh area and this is what we would call station 3's Primary Response
area the highlighted line there everything shaded to the left is what we would call station 3's or engine 3's um still alarm District so if it's a more minor incident engine 3 will be sent you know just by thems to respond this is their response area and also if there is
a fire there we we would expect him to be a very early response to that one if not the probably mainly the first apparatus there obviously as you get closer to the other Firehouse you might arrive a little more s simultaneously but this is the area we' expec them to
arrive first at Station 3 provides expedited access to third and fourth WS as well as the estate section the larger homes have deep setbacks which create unique timec consuming challenges that will negatively impact firefighting outcomes a rapid response is essential to
mitigate these factors the golden hour everyone's heard of the golden hour it's just a matter of time you know time is of the essence the Crick we're able to get some get some place start mitigating any kind of situation whatever it is might be a fire doesn't have to be a fire it could be we respond to all
different kinds of things a few months ago we a hi andle rescue the quicker we get to that IND that person and get them out of that situation the better chance they have at survival we only have seconds time is the most important factor in the outcome of any emergency a fire can double in size
intensity every 30 to 60 seconds according to nist that is the National Institute of Standards and Technology a fire can double I'm sorry an occupant of a building on fire may have as little as 3 minutes to escape according to UL under Rider's Laboratories modern furniture and finishings burn much
hotter and give off more toxic toxic gases than they did 3050 years ago when occupant had up to 17 minutes to escape and so that's the end of the presentation the Powerpoints but we just want to make sure everyone understands that um everything that we do as a fire
department comes from an area of safety that's really all it boils down to and how do we protect those that we serve and that's always our main consideration we want to be proactive unfortunately all too often establishments wait till
something tragic happens and only then do their act upon whatever you know happens um and there's this thought that you know I keep hearing it every now and then where that it's like if you if you fund station three and fix it up that that's something for the fire department like
Hey we're giving the fire department something um engine 3 is in service you know it's staff that's in service it's just riding at a headquarters putting engine 3 back in station three is for the residents of Montclair it's not for you know the firefighters
question may I councilor to I'm sorry um so on your PowerPoint here it's under the Station 3 project completion there's a bullet that says the completed project would ensure the health and safety of the firefighters so I'm just trying to get clarification what you mean there for station three for health and saf so
when they build firehouses nowadays there is a effort to um there's much more research done on the carcinogens and the effects of all the toxic you know pollutants that are on your gear and on your person and all the equipment so in redoing it we would separate the
spaces completely the way it was before was downstairs was partly living quarters and partly you know fire department if you will so that area will be separated so all gear all things that are contaminated remain in one area while you know the living area will be a
non-contaminated space okay thank you for that I just need a clarification so okay um and there's a diesel truck that runs out of there or is that the okay yeah they're all diesel they're all diesel so we just want you to know also that's more than just a firehouse um
Station 3 is also part of the community um it's also a safe space I mean I'm also it's funny to hear a story from someone who grew up a Generation Um apart from me but we have a similar story you know both of us growing up in the South End everyone knew that Station 3 was like a safe space that's a place you could go to get any kind of help
that that you needed and I I know for a fact that there's a whole host of other people who feel the same way I can't tell you how many times you just help someone out it's not really an incident there someone that's knocks under they need help whether it's changing their car tire a kid has a flat tire or some
bumper scraper or whatever the case may be but we're all there and everyone knows that that's a place you can go to get help of of any sort um I do also want to share one story I've received permission from Miss tassy it's it's her family story um her her and her son used
to visit the station often you know her and her son Jordan and they bonded with the firen there um very closely he knew all their names and who was on what shift and whatnot and they all knew him and um you know unfortunately Jordan
passed untimely but you know he was one of the firefighters who bonded with was asked to come speak at his funeral you know so those are the kind of relationships and it's not just that one these things happen all over the place every day you know there are kids you see every day come by the firehouse it's just their know not just Station 3 it
can be anywhere um that's just part of their route they go to school they come this way it's always um I said they're all just safe spaces and they're really integral parts of the community another I just because there's a lot of rumors out there and perhaps
misinformation um I've always heard that West Sten was our mutual aid for that area of town is that correct cuz my understanding that contract was severed it was only for the so we're kind of left out there but you can clarify West Orange was providing automatic Aid at
the beginning of the construction of the project during for the first I would say year um they no longer respond automatically to the south in the town they would have to be called to uh to respond to uh anything that we have what do you mean call like we like a resident
would have to call we would respond you know and then through our Dispatch Center we would call you know our County Mutual Aid they would know in turn dispatch West Orange but it's not something that's automatic it's not like an area of town that they cover you know it's just a part of Montclair and if we
need their help we would have to call them one last question because I've also heard chatter about volunteer firefighters here in town might be something we want to look at maybe not this Council said it maybe the prior Council I'm just trying to understand how do volunteer firefighters actually
work well whether you believe it or not volunteering is down you know across the country country and it's actually hard to get volunteers um if you can look it up there's volunteer firehouse that's closing so cuz they just can't get the people to staff it it's a lot of work to
um put volunteers through the because they have to do the same thing they go through the academy you got to buy them equipment it's very expensive you know to to have someone you know pay all these things and they might not show up you know I mean you need to have a great number of volunteers because how volunteers work I
think people think that volunteers just sit in the firehouse like like like like the professional firemen or and firefighters are always there when the bell rings they go volunteer fire departments they're at home and when they get the call they drive to the
Firehouse get their stuff and the procedures are all different sometimes they have to wait for two or three to arrive then they go because you can't just drive it by yourself sometimes it might be one person G who's a driver can drive to the scene and then if someone has equip maybe they me at the scene so every volunteer department runs at a
little differently but the response times are much much slower thank you mayor I have a few question Deputy Mayor hi Chief Hi how are you hello um first of all I want to thank you for giving me a tour of the the building um cple a few
months ago I do have a few questions um uh this I know that um councelor lochman asked this this Slide the South End responses um and you clarified that that um this was over many years but I was
just wondering the disposition column does that reflect actual responses by like and I was wondering what stations actually responded to those fires well if it's a report of fire everybody goes I'm sorry if it's a report of a working fire then all units
will respond to that call at that at that time okay but is this actually what happened the the disposition of these fires that were listed that's what was found at those calls okay I I'm just I'm just wondering which station actually responded to those calls that the that
the dispositions are there for well all three stations would have would have responded three well I mean it depends I mean if well it's if it's a report of a working fire um when you get there it might not be a working fire it could be something different where you might see more minor um incidents there but the dispatch came over that there's a fire
here we respond as if it's a fire so the disposition is what we found at that scene you know once we arrived okay um and then my um I have a couple more questions
so the slide that says that the the cost so it says between 600 uh the slide that says the estimated which one is that oh station three project completion estimated cost of construction to finish the building is
ranges between 6 64,000 520 through 1.25 million um and I was just wondering what that means exactly where um it says the sole cost of finishing the project is the cost of construction to make the building habitable yes so mean habitable
meaning use as a fire station or okay I mean right now the building's gutted and if if you went through there there's there's they put the walls back up things like that there it's not a livable space right now so it the construction would have to happen to make it a livable space no I mean I I no
it's a it looks like a lot of work was done there and there's like offices I saw like some office looking spaces upstairs right um so I I just wanted to clarify that um and um when you said the
West Orange would um they would respond when when they're called right so they would actually respond if if you if you all need it well how the uh system works is we don't we might not know what's going on other towns so there's a county
um dispatch that we that our dispatches in town when we say we have a second alarm or third alarm what have you they have a sheet that they follow so that tells them how many apparatus they need to respond to that scene so the county they know what's going on so maybe someone else has maybe West Orange has a
fire gun right and they can't send somebody they'll have to pick another town to send so the county is the one that knows what's going on in the county they're the ones that would dispatch you know a apparatus to you now if on the normal circumstances if West Orange
didn't have anything else going on yes they would probably respond especially if it was that in town how far away is the West Orange fire station from Firehouse 3 I don't have the exact mileage um for that I can get that for you I mean from from this station to that station I don't know okay um I'd be
interested and then um I I think the only other piece of information that I would be interested in knowing is just in the last year like in 2024 2023 like the actual number of fires um that occurred in that the the the south end
of town I I'd be interested sou specifically you want well the area that would be served by um Firehouse you can you can send that to us but I don't want to make that the bar for us to make a decision it's just one piece of information I think I think a lot of people would want to know that Chief I I
have a question for you please you've um given us some information and thank you both for being here based on the information that you have um based on the data that you have um would you be
of um would it be your opinion that our failure to reopen station three May in some way put the safety of some of our residents in Jeopardy um I would say that you know I
mean we if if the the times don't lie I mean if it's if you have a fire and someone's going to get there and start solving that issue for you two minutes before someone else will be there that's a big deal you know that that is that is a big deal so I mean there's times when you know I used to work on Station 3 and there's times you
have a fire and you have the hose line in the building before the next apparatus show is up so you're already actively mitigating that issue before the next one gets there to even start anything so I do think that and what you have to understand is this you know in
the fire service you know it's just life saav everything's like safety right so we always prepare that's what we do you know we don't want to lose anybody to have to make a change or do this or or do these things that's we just look at things we say where are we weak what do
we do one example is um we've never had a massive train derailment we have had a couple small derailments but nothing massive but we vote a grant we said we have more train stations in Montclair we have in any other town in New Jersey and now we have all kinds of equipment and
training that you know would help us if something like that were to happen now we we didn't wait for a massive Trail dment to happen where we have to have certain special airbags different things to support these type of things there was areas identifi that if this happens we
have no ability to mitigate this so we need to fix that we wouldn't wait for it to happen we want to fix impressive they have all sorry all kinds of stuff um but it was a command school but the whole this is New Jersey Transit the whole scenario was train derailment Monclair
New Jersey because we have everything that comes through here electric trains diesel trains commuter trains um you know commercial trains everything comes through here so the possibility something could happen you know it's there and we prepare for it you know we order a grant we got all the equipment for it it was expensive the training is
expensive everything's expensive but if it happens it's something that we can we can we're handle to prepare to to to handle that situation thank you very much I think that's huge um you know when you say that by not opening it again we might be jeopardized ing
someone's Health thank you very much um okay councilor lochman and then um Council Williams I just really want to understand the data okay so Firehouse 3 has its last day of operation was 20
months ago or so right so in that time from then to now within the range of 1.5 miles which I think is the optimum according to ISO about how far um a station should be how many fires happened and what was the response
time of the other you know the other engines that came I'm sorry so you you start off you're were saying station three is 1.5 miles from headquarters well how far is headquarters from station three it's about one and a half miles one and a half mil okay my question is this since the time that the
fire station has been closed how many fires were there in its catchment area okay and what was the response time we can get that for you that's a very similar question it's a very similar question yeah and I I wasn't happy with the answer so I really would like that
data to know you know to demonstrate whether or not it's actually no we understand but if you look over time we we do get fires you know down in that area we've had bad fires we've had fatalities down in that area I have a fatality right across the street right across the street and we've had fatalities in that area so it's not
something that um here again you know we always say what's the bar right we don't want to have to have a fatality in order to prove that you know need nonetheless I'm interested in that I understand we we we we'll get that for you thank you
thank you councelor Williams yeah I'll I'll answer your question just the firehouse in West Orange is about a mile a little less than a mile because that's my running route uh I run through West Orange and East Orange before I come back so Fire House the firehouse you're saying is a
mile yeah but that doesn't that it's not a stat doesn't do anything for anything just answering the question so one thing I want to know is last year 2024 how many how many calls did fire in
emergencies how many calls did the fire department have to attend to if if you have that you have that number townwide townwide uh there was uh a little over 2500 2500 and how many of those were
fires I don't have the uh I I we we have those numbers we didn't put them in the presentation but we'll we'll provide that along with the other data okay cool thank you here I I just just oh councelor Birmingham first councelor Birmingham and then councelor
damato um thank you for being here um was has there been discussion of how we would make the firehouse ADA Compliant because I know even if it's a historic building it's not exempt from that entirely I know it's happened in the past and um you know a lot of the this
debate was about the um there's stairs there but because we have the apparatus bay door it's a ramp that we wouldn't have to alter the stairs into the door at all um it's a clean slate down there so it would would be easier to um build a bathroom say an ADA Compliant bathroom
in that area if need be okay um that's why it was also you know before a polling station as well because you just open the bay door people could just walk right in and um it was very easy access for people with disabilities okay and
so and just about the iso classification the it's 105 points and I believe the the amount of houses within 1.5 miles scores you four points like if if you have everybody so it's out of 105
points that's a I just want to that that's sort of a a small number of points because your fire department is % and your water supply is 40% and then you have dispatch and then you have um so I think with the two firehouses
existing we EV almost every property in Monclair is within two miles um of a firhouse with the two you know the um Firehouse one the headquarters and Valley and um and that's better like Milburn has
two firehouses for 9 miles Summit has one firehouse for five miles and so I think to me this is this is just a discussion that we need to have in this town about
um where the system that we live in in New Jersey so most towns in New Jersey and I I don't mean to I don't I just feel like this is a conversation we need to have because most towns in New Jersey that are responsible for paying for most of their school district which is what
we are um have volunteer fire departments and that they represent about 75% of and I'm sure some of you may live in towns with volunteer fire departments um I I would say I think I've said this before my father was a
New York City police officer we lived in a and I and our town was full of New York City Firefighters and when I was growing up it was always someone's dad was either a police officer or firefighter and they fought very hard to keep the town a
volunteer fire department they did not want and this is this is this is why around New York City almost every fire department even all of Long Island is mostly volunteer and so in New Jersey We have basically three
ways that F that fire departments are financed one is volunteer and these the state of New Jersey places a limit through the local Finance board that you can that a town can only spend $165,000 on their fire department so
again $165,000 they can invest in trucks and else and some buildings but otherwise it's $165,000 the second way is um commiss a district and a fire commission and T and
often those are elected so and then you vote the people in the town vote on their fire budget and you'll see routinely that people are voting the district down or their their budget down and then the Third Way is the governing
body controls the expenses I'm looking at the a fire service cost estimate that the CFO gave me um for the fire department and we're at and her estimate was
$2,450 th000 and over 17 million of that is Staffing costs those Staffing costs will be increasing because we have a 3.25% um salary increase I think the
median compensation for firefighters last year in Mont clar was over $150,000 um thecorrect yeah with overtime it's compensation it's overtime yeah excuse me please in
the yes I'm just I'm just this we' like for you not to call out from the back please if you'd like an opportunity and the chief wants to invite you as part of his presentation that's fine I again I struggle because for a town of 40
thousand people that is mostly residential I'm not really sure you're going to find in New Jersey or even elsewhere in the country over $20 million of expenditure especially when we're struggling with a
2% to you know we have a 2% tax levy cap we already are heavily taxed and so I'm you know I might suggest and I think somebody Al suggested this that we could study we could do a study I think the studies that were done were all sort of
um older I think Maplewood and South Orange they merged into um South Essex fire department they have 70 71 firefighters operating out of three houses seem very pleased with it
um Milburn as I said they have 40 like they have 48 West Orange looks you know we can I I think again it is nothing it is really not at all of course it is it is just at
some point you know these expenses are just going to keep going up and I and I think we're g to have to look because this spending does seem to me to be outsized compared to a lot of other
towns especially ones again that have to pay for their school district without getting a lot of aid from the state so I will look you know I heard um councelor Cummings talk about how there was potentially grant money we we can look at it I again I this is just I look at
the numbers and I it it's concerning for me so I just want to I understand I I've not seen I'll ask uh Miss Ralph for for that uh you know numbers that she sent you because our um salary spreadsheet has actually gone down over the use from the retirement of
higher paid um positions and hiring of lower paid positions so year over year the last few years that number has gone down um the trend actually for um fire departments is that volunteer departments are moving towards being paid there's more and more uh volunteer departments going going away they can't
get volunteers and they're starting to have to pay people to uh come you know be in their Firehouse it's happening more and more and smaller fire departments are growing that is um that is the trend that's going on right now in in the fire service yeah and I mean
I'm not like you know I saw Princeton for example I I saw as incorporating like I think they have 10 fire firefighters and they're working 24 48 they they're on that schedule and um you know
so I again this is not at all and I know you know people look think that I'm trying to it really is just at some point for a town to be dedicating over 20% of its Municipal available money to a fire to
the fire department I think again and especially like when we look at what happened with Livingston you know they have or Verona even let's let's talk about closer Verona when there when there was a fire in the clarage two years two summers ago in the 10
story of um Verona what happened 14 fire departments showed up does Verona have any conversation about or Livingston when they had the Wildfire there they had 27 fire
departments show up are they having a conversation about increasing and and I don't you know I saw you know Long Island they've been eliminating their their uh their paid fire departments and again this is not I I just want I just think
we have to have the conversation because we we don't you know and my other question would be you know when you talk about NFPA time I'm I'm mystified in Monclair that we don't that um Ambulance Service like
NFPA like if has shorter times for ambulances um this is something as a physician I'm always sort of mystified in Essex County where there's an average weight for an ambulance of 12 minutes which is really well beyond a a normal
time I know here in Montclair with the ambulance unit it's it's much um faster but um what about putting an ambulance in that like this these are just things that I I wonder about because
again you know when my mother was in Cardiac Arrest I had an ambulance there in 3 minutes who could you know who airlifted her and that you know the this is M and medical emergencies are much more common than than fire so I I will
stop talking and we will of course be considering this but I just again it really is just the idea that the costs are going to keep going up and it's beyond our control your control it's just well you know I do think we should talk about it I'm looking forward to
having a conversation with you let's yeah I I do too thank you councilor deato thanks um I'll say a few things first and then I'll ask some some small questions first thanks for coming Chief Duncan deputy chief L poo uh I'm call
you from now thanks for everybody else your nickname Napoleon H and thank you for your service in this AB absolutely crucial thing I'm a big believer that governments big and small have a concentric series of circles of of of
responsibilities uh uh and at the core is Public Safety so you and the police department that is the first thing that we're really here for um I would even narrow down what council
birmingh was saying uh things are are are real and they're getting realer as we go into budget season um and every dollar that we spend now really does have to be looked at as a dollar that's going to have to come from somewhere else uh as uh the head of the facilities
committee I'm now this is falling on my head like some of our buildings might be uh we have tremendous other competing needs not to say that these needs are not important but it is literally the case that every dollar that we would
spend on a on on a potentially very worthy project like this needs to come from another worthy project I will also just say for the record that I was first heard about the push to do
this not in the context of necessarily not from the department but from the fmba so I'm not drawing any you know aspersions there I'm just saying
that I personally do and it's everybody should Lobby for what they want whether it's a a service type or for for their Compadres but that's where it's coming to me first and that's where we're
hearing it from not from your office that needs to be said um now I have a few questions so first would be you have this range of costs to renovate the building to bring
it up to code I imagine that doesn't that is not inclusive of equipment uh that would be coming you're not just bringing back equipment from from Pin Street I from what I understand um the the uh equipment that was in Firehouse 3
before uh before it was it was shutter uh was substandard uh including radios that were not right all the radial are um purchased and everything okay so what I'd like to know
is what the total amount would be not just not just basically doing the internal construction and these kinds of things but that's but Allin so it has to be an Allin number which I imagine is is well
into the six figures and we'd like to get an estimate of that is of what that is and then I think think if we're being honest with each other and it is really time to be honest about this stuff in a friendly way we need to know what the operating expenses are as a facilities
guy that's not really my deal I would like to know what they cost to run and they cost something to run a building heating cooling sewer fees whatever it is we need to know what that number
is and then I would say that the we have to be honest about whatever operating expenses that would go along with it it just pays to be honest about it so it's not going to cost nothing we need to know what it is and then the third thing
uh is that um there were issues cultural issues and there were Financial issues that were Downstream of them that resulted from having this one firehouse aside from the others and and under your
predecessor it was according to lawsuits some of which may still be active a sort of Exile place that that people could be sent it was also a place that had issues related to the equipment standards that were there uh so we have
to be very careful and I just would like to hear at the end what the plan would be to make sure that this is not a problem again because again these law suits pose a financial threat to the town as well as all these
other Financial issues that's it sorry to be longwinded don't worri is I don't know if I'm should be saying anything about thing that's potentially uh involving them let's acknowledge that they exist no those exist you know I mean I
would not I wouldn't anticipate any of the issues that you're talking about thank you Chief um councelor Toller thank you uh um thank you again for your presentation um just to kind of piggyback on what councelor damato um
the Exile place of the lawsuits have nothing to do with getting this building open for the residents in the fourth ward and the Third Ward what I'm hearing is a lot of salary talk we're talking about a building um if we're going to request reports and data to see if
this building should be reopened we need to request request reports and data from all the fire departments buildings if we're going to close one let's close them all let's get the DAT let's get the data okay let's close them all because this is not fair and it's not right it's
just not right people will be suffering and it's not going to be on my head I'm just saying the response time matters the residents matter we need this Firehouse to be open Point Blank period if we're going to keep it closed we need to look at closing Valley Road as well
so no I'm no cuz you're talking about the money going up and the money going up yeah I mean would you so there are houses in the first W that are as far from a firehouse but it's about the money no but would you are we suggesting you're saying it's about the money I'm
hearing salary salary salary yeah of course every there okay so then if it's about salary then it's just got to be about salary not about what you're getting ready to say you're getting ready to say the houses in the first water a little further no I'm just saying I well I mean we can disc we can
discuss but I do think we do have to think about money and and it I mean as I said it is something that when we hear about you know again I it's we can we can discuss but I you
know it's weird it's weird for me again as somebody who grew up in a town with volunteers where a lot of professional firefighters live in towns with volunteers this and I'm not advocating for that but there is
not it is not a major you know as I said I do not believe career firefighters would live in towns with their children if they if it was if they considered it so dangerous so well that's not for us to decide Andis but it the other
decision no it's we can we can discuss and like Maplewood and South Orange they have three I'm going to um excuse me coun I know I know this is a passionate discussion I'm going to ask if since since I called on you no I'd like for you to please have your time to finish
and not be interrupted and then I'd like also for councelor Birmingham to have an opportunity to finish and and not be interrupted because all of this is is very important did you complete but you okay councelor Birmingham it's it's very
important that we hear from you also would you no thank you mayor I think I've said what I had to say okay thank you um what should I call you deputy chief um deputy chief thank you mayor um I just want to
address some peripheral issues here uh because a lot of this discussion is based on a flyer that was put out last month regarding uh insinuation or direct accusation that decisions involving funding and other things in the police department are either um are political
or neglectful so I just want to address some of these issues since since I became the manager that the complement of firefighters went from 706 to 77 correct we budget amount budget amount so went up we we hired six
new firefighters or seven new firefighters correct we promoted we promoted 16 firefighters okay we hired a company six months ago tall which does the testing for the police department to develop a
test a fair test to hire new officers we reached an agreement with New Jersey civil service to administer the promotional test there are currently seven vacancies which seems to be the information that the fact that people
are creating that we are not filling positions on purpose one of them is from April one is from October November December this flyer went out in January middle of January two of them are February 1st and one doesn't happen till April so when we're talking about about
vacancies not being filled most of them were vacancies that didn't even exist there's always going to be vacancies in every Department we have gone above and beyond and I can tell you having been here almost 20 months serving with two different governing bodies no one what
the other group has ever made these decisions made on a political basis we have done everything we can to quote unquote as I like to say write the ship okay that has nothing to do with the you know this is part of a big conspiracy
with Firehouse 3 I have done and made sure and both Mayors and Council have done everything I'm talking about the flyer they put out they have done everything that I've asked them to do to make sure the fire department is fully staffed all promotions and hirings are
fair okay just want to state that for the record thank you very much um Deputy Mayor thank you mayor um I I do want to thank both of you for coming here and for your leadership done that already excuse me I'm I'm speaking
Yeah so um councelor Cummings mentioned that yeah it's it's an asset that we don't want to let go of and I just want to be clear I I personally I don't think that we should let go of that asset the reason why I think that the data that
we're asking for is relevant is because of the fact that yes we have some really difficult decisions to make and when you mentioned when you mentioned the thing about you know having um fat fatalities not be the bar I mean we are receiving
Communications from residents who are begging us to make Road improvements and things like that make our streets safer and so they're begging us not to wait until somebody is killed on the on the street so that is why I mean I'm not minimizing um anything that you do I'm
just letting you know that we are not finished having this discussion obviously but just to give you a sense of be very transparent about where what my thought process is and asking these questions so that's all I wanted to say okay um councelor toer right thank you and um I too get those emails for Safe
Streets and I get them for opening the firehouse as well so we can't when we make our decision it has to be Equitable and fair decision and making sure that we are balancing Safe Streets versus houses catching on fire and no Firehouse down there so we just want to keep that
out there in our heads and make sure that we're giving equal consideration to every single project that we have to deal with and look at the money one project should not take precedent over another that's what I want to say because you mentioned Safe Streets and
residents emailing you has anyone emailed you about station three yes they have okay so I'm just making sure that we understand that we're going to give this an equitable decision councelor Birmingham no I mean I I just want to say that's what risk management is is it
you resources are limited and that's what you have to do you you assess a hazard what is the likelihood of a hazard what is the severity the severity of the hazard these are what you have to do what is the cost of you know mitigating that Hazard um do you have a
sense in the next five years chief of what other um infrastructure needs are going to come from the fire department because you know again and we are as I said costs are going up it was the fire department that argued for
example that Glenn ridge's taxes should go down and and um I'm just curious in terms of the next five years I know we need another truck how like the roof on headquarters as well like what do you have well the roof one station two is in
need of repair okay um so those are probably well obviously Station 3 is the big one um in so far as you know just just more maintenance you I mean as long as you we're just kind of keeping up on what's uh there I think that's really um what we have them
obviously you replace there's nothing to that magnitude right so maybe Station 2 needs the windows replaced that's a much lower number it needs a new roof that's a much lower number these are just regular maintenance type items um on our older firehouses as far as headquarters we don't have anything I mean there is
like a roof issue they going right now we have had it repaired um temporarily right now but that's an ongoing issue as well but it's nothing like uh you know the station three may I one more question for the chief Council Toler thank you what happened with Fire
Station 3 that it had to be closed was it past administration's neglect for the building do you have any idea that you can that has been a project that's been on the table for a long time um for for a very long time we even tried to get
grant money for it to like build a new one even down there it's just an Old Firehouse it was built uh for horse and carriage it was actually built very substantially I guess my question is and maybe you can't even answer this with this would be something maybe Mr laa can look into is I'm just wondering if
budgeting for that particular Firehouse was neglected in the past that even got it to have you know have to be closed at this point it's um it is the fourth ward things happen you know so you probably don't have that answer
um I'll I don't have that answer for I know you don't but I'm just putting it out there thank you so the um finance committee who is myself councelor Birmingham and um councelor Williams will um continue to look at this for me
um this became a very easy discussion um once you answered my question that by closing this fire station we may be jeopardizing a life just like councelor Birmingham here we're both under oath to provide services and to heal and the
minute you said for me that if we close that we may be jeopardizing a life we have to find Cuts somewhere else in our budget it's just that simple for me I don't want to be that person that's going to be looking at that family when something happens to their 2-year-old
child in a fire and we can't get there in the timely amount because we make a decision about money money is real I mean I get it I get everything that councelor Bur said I get but at the end of the day there's nothing more real for
me than a life and making sure that we protect everybody to the best of our ability in every area of the township all the way up to Eagle Rock that's the people up there Eagle Rock where the hous is set back off of the road so we have to find Cuts somewhere else as far
as I'm concerned we're all going to talk about it we're going to keep the conversations going um and and thank you for the information you have I trust that you'll get us the information that we request that of view and whatever we need to do to to just make sure that we we do this right we don't have to worry
about if somebody's going to come and sue us if if we don't get to the fire on time because we close the house thank you very much thank you all for your time appreciate it okay we're going to move on to um new business mayor yes I just I'm
going to pass out um interim manager Lola I'm going to pass out another agenda with a couple of resolutions one of them that you had in your packet was missing okay so I we redid it so you have all the correct information on the agenda itself and then at the end we're
going to have a few resolutions that did not make the agenda until the last minute but that you will have and we can discuss tonight if we can discuss at the next meeting but I wanted you to have them for Garcia thank you have eight thank
you thank you okay we're going to move on to new business at this time um Council demato if you would start please ordinance 025-32625-000 ordinance 0255 ordinance amending
chapter 297 uh 12.1 notice to repair sidewalks and curbs costs of the code of the township of Montclair so moved second discussion on on this item I um
I've I've gone through here quite a few times and I'm not um I'm not at a point in time where I think that I would be ready to vote on this and um simply because we're talking about um costs in here and um some things that we're going
to do to Residents if they don't do it and so I'd like to um put a an amendment in here which I am am not prepared to do at this moment but it will be a cost share sidewalk repair program I don't like the fact that this thing puts
hardships on residents that may really not be able to have the money to to fix the sidewalks a couple of slabs of sidewalks and cost you $1,000 so I have been looking into municipalities around us and many of our surrounding
municipalities offer cost share sidewalk repair programs and they've done this by um creating programs where the townships will do a 50/50 and some of them some of them they let the residents do cost
share over time so that they can pay whatever their portion of the um required amount over time some of them do it with a tax bill but I think it's very very important because I don't take for granted for one minute that every
resident here that may have sidewalk difficulties has the money sitting around here and just from the first read and the second read I'm I'm not seeing any any way to to assist those residents that might need some financial
assistance mayor yes sir um do you have any sample legislation that you can show us now or yes I I do I do have it I know that you like to to have it in front of you um I wanted to pull this for tonight and then pass this
so that everyone can read it because it's it's it's really important and it's very well done the sample legisl I have actually is from our near neighbor in West Orange um and it facilitate the promotion of safe and walkable streets
but it's also to um make the costs of the repairs more affordable and they go into several different options that you can look to the township will pay for half of all eligible sidewalk costs uh the township
would go out for a public bid on this and so that if neighbor a has to repair their um sidewalk and neighbor B also needs some maybe because of in bulk there would be options and so I just
like to put all of that in in in here because I think it's it's important and I I would hate to pass something and be setting up residents um that'll be ripped of funds to have further um um
things penalties put on them that they just actually can't afford to pay and that's what I just I understand if I if I may um so we have a whole universe of Code
Enforcement that we do including building code that involves can involve and I'm sure has involved uh the mandating of improvements on people's houses that will cost more than a su
piece of sidewalk so as a as a beginning as a general principle we in our code I'm sure there's all kinds of stuff that you know you have to adhere to and if you don't do it you are going to get a bill so it's this is not some special thing that happens to people because of
a sidewalk that's why I want to amend it so that they will not get stuck with right I'm just saying that it's not this is not some unusual thing that we tell people you need to fix something and and it's it's going to cost $1,000 or more like we do that in
other ways well we are telling them that they have to put x amount of money aside and they have to do some other things so it does require that they immediately have cash flow I wanted to make as a just a statement that like we're already doing that to people if their house has
you know uh uh the roof is clearly distressed from the outside you are going to get code enforcement that's going to tell you to do it and so we don't have a cost so you're making sidewalks at a special thing that's not the main point of what I was going to
say which is that we had I've had discussions with maybe you or other people about this issue plus the fact that probably with our complete streets um ordinance and activities
going forward we're probably going to be talking about sidewalks in the in the near future again and attorney Garcia there's no limit we can amend an ordinance now and then return and amend it in a couple of months correct you
heard me say at the last meeting multiple times where I thought we were you know making uh making great the enemy of good or vice versa there right I think you you have safety concerns you have Ada concerns with these streets I thought that was the rush rush to get this done you certainly you can certainly amend it going forward so we
can amend it going so if we pass this because there are there are residents who really you know would like to see this p and let's just say they're in the parts of town the ones that I know where people should get a ticket and fix their sidewalk it is in the parts of town that you know and that's a problem because we
have to think about all of the residents in our Township and more and more and more we're not doing that there's nothing in here that allows for you know the regular the missing middle or or whatever to to be able to do that we do
want Safe Streets we want them safe for everybody every single time that you mentioned even in emails that we were going to do this I wrote back that I would like to consider putting something in there about having the um the assistant from
the township um Deputy I mean interim manager Lolo was there he he heard me we talked about it so the fact that you just you know move forward and ignore it it doesn't mean that it's any less important to me to be heard on that matter and it's very important because
every time we're making decisions here they are based on where people are coming from you live in a certain area of town maybe everybody has $1,500,000 sitting around I see people all over in every area of this Township who would be
really uh disproportionately in a bad position if we pass this tonight and go to the the the very difficult enforcement I get it we've had a sidewalk ordinance forever so there is no urgency to pass this tonight I have information here we can
make copies can read it we can review it and at the next meeting do it there's no urgency to do this tonight and I think that you know we owe it to the masses of residents in the township to let them know that we want to do things that are Equitable for everybody not just some
people that happen to have a bunch of money sitting around it's not about all right if I can say one other thing about this is that it's a fiction that the town is helping people replace the sidewalk because the people will just be paying for it in taxes okay so I don't
know what you mean what I mean by that is that like you know you're saying oh we're we're going to help you fix your side we're going to pay for your sidewalk we're not paying for their sidewalk they're paying for it by sending us tax more taxes that then will send them back a little bit bonus and
pretend I don't understand the scenario that you're talking about we're going to raise people's taxes to do this well I mean obviously there's a lot of things that are on the on the thing that we're going to raise people tax or we're not we're going to find ways to cut them when people come and they want extra money for this or they want extra
vehicles or different things I mean we'll find ways to do it this penalizes people that really may have hardships there's nothing in here about a hardship okay I that that's fine now I'm just saying that in terms of like
we we could uh I don't understand why this was bottled up for so long and people were working on it and I felt like I was sitting on it in in review and I it's been with us for months and I just don't
understand why it gets on the agenda and then we can't pass it like I mean I you know I don't I don't want to be harsh but like because when you say it's been with us truth be told we know that us very often doesn't include me and some
of the uses you all have your meetings in three people or four or however many you want and us sitting right here is not not included in that group and that's very it's wrong it's wrong because we work better together our strength is in pulling us together as
one unit and checking with everybody I sent you an email in response to when you sent this back so it's not a surprise and I want us to start working better even if we even if you would have responded to whatever I sent you and
whatever and you knew that I was interested we didn't have but I'm just saying when you talk about us there is know us we got to make it a us I want there to be in us but I can't make you come to me and and say that once I share that with you manager Lola was kind
enough to talk to me about some of the municipalities that he knows that are doing those things CU I can get him to share information with me when I go to him and and ask it's not a good thing for us not to include all of us because we are coming from different perspectives your perspective matters to me everybody's perspective up here
matters to me but I would like to be included when you're talking about we had this for a long time some of us this Wei right here didn't have it for a long time it wasn't in it wasn't in a committee it was just around and it was around for anybody to have problem right
and no the problem is that if the work had been done on it if the work had been done a month ago so it's just a question of like why is something getting if something was coming on the agenda in advance of this you could have
circulated an amendment that's the normal legislative process is that you would circulate a written Amendment which we would then debate we could put it in correct so I got this on Friday or Saturday actually I got this on Saturday
I called all the municipalities because I have a lot of connections with different people and they sent me this on um either Saturday or Sunday and and and this is here now the reason that I didn't put it here is because in order
to do this we and I'm saying we meaning the subcommittee of the finance committee should actually look at where those resources would come from and how to make it work so for me just to to give this to you right now and I can pass this to you so you can look at it
it's it's not going to be helpful until we look at where we can find the money from it may turn out we can't find it I don't know that yet but I would like to have an opportunity to do that and I just think that um it would be
fair to you know more residents if we did something that that would allow people I think that that's fair that's fair and I appreciate I I absolutely do if you're calling around and like looking for a solution you want to do this I don't want a second guess that I I think that that's that's the work I
get it that's fine um I just wish we were doing it you know a little bit before but I totally I understand and honor your desire to do a different um you know a different uh uh uh mechanism
that's that's what this is all about but you know it's frustrating and it's dangerous for people that's the other thing so we were just saying that in the context of that of of that presentation that we worried about people Safety Council damato was
talking on this like people are being hurt and a friend of mine in particular was hurt and is worried about the sidewalks we have broken sidewalks it is a a severe safety threat for
people uh and it's also an accessibility issue for people so if we have broken sidewalks people who are disabled have a hard time using them the force to be in the street and that could also lead to a debt so this is a serious business and
we should get it fixed I I totally agree with you councelor damato and um I think that with the enforcement the proper enforcement of the sidewalk ordinance that we we have in place that um we should be able to um make sure that
we're going to enforce those things and again I would ask you for um a two week period to just um suggest something else so we can get it all in here I mean we have an ordinance here for the sidewalks um I don't know I don't have the data on
the frequency of enforcement um if it's usually you know if somebody has a complaint if it's complaint driven or if they regularly go around so I can't speak to that but I might feel comfortable that what you're saying is accurate we don't want to have accidents
we definitely want to have all of our sidewalks um ADA Compliant and um that's something that's also very dear to me but I think that if we enforce the rules that we have for the next two weeks we'll be good to go and we can actually try to um look at what we can do to help
the residents that um would experience a financial hardship if we pass this the way it is one final thing there is that we can't the point of this amendment of this new ordinance was that we were not able to enforce the law
because of a technical defect correct attorney Garcia so that's the problem we can't sorry yeah what is the defect that prevents them from enforcing if may I I ask a question to um I believe it had to
do with the language referring to whether there was an occupant or an owner something like that I'm sorry may I speak I don't believe that because we take two more weeks to um put something in here that might be actually very very beneficial to a large number of
residents that that things are going to get worse just because we're going to do a two we period here to review something that may be helpful mayor may I speak please regard regarding your question yes so the language I just want to be
clear what is actually what the main purpose of this amendment was and I do believe that it was presented to us um several months ago and um number one it clarifies who the enforcement body is so
in paragraph B um the language said whenever the township Council determines that an uh you know that sidewalk work is necessary the proposed amendment is whenever the township through its division of Code Enforcement housing and Property
Maintenance deter makes that termination so that is the answer to the question is the reason why we U wanted to I think this technical amendment is needed is because there's an issue as far as you know when um code enforcement tries to
go out and um enforce this existing law right the other major um change which I don't I think that it it does go towards um uh you know affordability is make um removing the language that says
that the responsibility of repairing um the sidewalk is by the owner or occupant so if it was it says an occupant it could include like renters right so we wanted to we the amendment removes or
occupant right so those are really the major um changes as far as I can see you know there's additional language that says that makes clear a conr the language and I'm familiar with what's in here I'm sorry excuse me I'm sorry I wasn't finished talking I wasn't
finished speaking please so my proposal is since this was brought up for safety reasons my suggestion my strong suggestion would be that we pass you know that that we go forward with this and then what you are proposing I think is a very good idea I've heard this idea
before about providing assistance to people who can't afford it that seems to me a bigger dis much bigger discussion that requires you know careful consideration about where are these funds going to come from you know we're in the mid middle of budget season I I
feel like we need to just deal with the immediate safety issue and the technical issue so that we can actually allow the department that's responsible for going out and enforcing the existing law so now thank you very much but just so you'll know I was I was very clear about
what the purpose of this was and that still does not address my concern about the cost of such work should be and and they're going to come collecting resources and so I I get the safety issue that's not even a matter that
that's a a very important concern for me yes but I'm saying it it's also very important concern for me when we go knocking on people's doors that don't have money and give them penalties if they don't have the money money then how can they possibly do it you're going to
the homeowner just cuz you own a home in mon many of us us I'm including myself in here we own houses in M it doesn't mean we have spare money sitting around for these things many of us are working very hard
and don't have a stash of cash so if you're coming to the house of someone who doesn't have a stash of cash that that is a homeowner and telling them oh you got to fix this give us a $1,500 here then if you don't do that they're going to be penalties we are hurting
residents we need to try to find out and and and and we need to figure out how to do that we need to try to figure out how to work with the residents to help them not hurt them they want to fix the sidewalks as much as we do most often counselor Toller yes thank you um
this is first reading so is it possible that we can include some of the language that you're referring to or would like to see included because we can't vote and pass this tonight this is a first reading it has to go through a second reading um maybe we should think about adding some of the language that the
mayor is talking about and I do agree because I as I told you counsel gel there was some a resident in a fourth wart with a sidewalk issue I'm still not sure if it was the township that damaged her sidewalk or not but I don't know how this would fit into her scenario so we
do need to think about all four WS when we making changes to ordinances um and this is just the first reading if we can come up with some language to include so that when we go to the second reading it's in there that's my recommendation I like that town Coler
and so I would um then suggest that we add after this where we're talking about the cost that the uh to ease the burden of paying for the replacement um the township will put
into place a cost sharing program to help defay the expense I did you get that or no no yes yes um Council Williams how do why don't we just table
this and just have a conversation about it because the cost sharing Pro the the program what is the program I know you have legislation that you have from another municipality that we can view so instead of just changing why don't we look at what you were able to get from
other municipalities and you know see what language we can extract from that and incorporate into ours to make it a better piece of legislation I I agree that's why I didn't um originally put it out there but I think that it's important before we pass something that
may hurt some residents that that we try to get something in there so that they won't be further jeopardized yes our taxes go up yes there's a great chance they may go up this year and many of us are hurting but if there's a chance that
we can help somebody not everybody is in the same predicament and which which committee did this go through or you said it didn't because I'm just wondering if I'm kind of baffled yeah I would think I sorry I'm sorry mayor I I um I would think in the
future we should look at sidewalks as being um in the mobility committee cuz it's because we want a center walking and pest ran life and that's about mobility and it's you know these are streets basically they're they're about
you know they're streets for people um and uh so we can work on it there and I mean there are Advocates who will Who are interested in this stuff who are all about mobility and transport transport but this issue of of how you
would actually do the mechanics of a program like this we go to the finance committee the finance but it I mean can it go to Mobility first and then the finance for the final touches because I can't believe this didn't go through a committee now um I mean there are things
that are ad hoc so it we talked about it first you know sorry no I don't can I just yes Council Birmingham can I just ask do we have right now an an ordinance that can be enforced for people's
sidewalks to if if there are broken sidewalks we don't have something that's legally enforceable right now nope correct so and this was designed to clear up that language and I and I know that there have been fines before because
we've seen people here in Council around that so I mean to me I do feel like as a town we need to have a legally enforceable sidewalk ordinance um so if that's what this need needs to
do to be a for us to be able to um enforce sidewalk code I think we need to have something I agree we can look into how much you know what how much it would cost to develop a sidewalk program I
know towns have done that and they you know will put a cap on it or something but I'm just concerned about not having an existing something that can be enforced um by code enforcement right now so how long have we not had had that um
manager Lola I think it was since last late last spring it was challenged in court and the court would not enforce the ordinance so he couldn't enforce the ordinance because the language said the council it must have been a typo at the time it was drafted years before no one
ever challenged it but then they did and in reviewing that the issue of occupant came up so to clean it up but that that's what it was so so we have not been able to enforce it because of that specific thing that says councel instead
of you know mayor um I'm gonna I'm going to but councelor lochman hasn't been um speaking yet so councelor lochman yeah I'm in in favor of uh passing this ordinance now and working on the um
procedures or way to um address some of the Practical elements of um helping people in need not everybody but people in need if they need their sidewalks repaired that's why I'm in favor of passing this now I would have one change
and that would be that um the uh the township shall cause a written notice thereof to be served upon the owner either personally or by certified males directing or the property owner to do the work I'd say within 45 days not 30 it would be hard to get this type of
work done within 30 days where are you under I'm right here I'm under B paragraph I mean it could even be longer but oh on the first page I think 30 days is too short any other discussion I should I make a motion no
there's already a motion on the um floor and there's been a second was there a motion Motion in second not for the amendment any further discussion no not for the amendment if there's an amendment do you want to I'm sorry mayor is there a motion on the floor to amend this
ordinance there was a motion on the floor at the time that I did that yes ma'am to adopt this ordinance but now councelor lochman is proposing an amendment so the question is will there be a motion in a second are you going to move to amend the ordinance yes so as I
said I'm making the amendment on Section B to go from 30 days to 45 days to allow the owner time to get the work done and and that's my motion do I have a second I will second that and I'd like to make a motion that we put a sentence in here
to let them know that we're going to come in and come up with a cost um savings measure to help people that will experience uh financial hardship can I get a second
second I have a question first this is the first RA are we opening ourselves up for something if let's say for example code enforcement goes to enforce uh you know tell someone to fix their sidewalk and they say well um you know I want to
apply for the course saving I I think it's certainly awkward to say you're going to do something with no time frame to do it no no specifics on the program uh would not again would not be the way that that I would particularly proceed but I mean if that's if that's what you
want to do it's not illegal there's nothing legally improper about it but I do think there there's definitely some awkwardness and could cause confusion there so then we would have to move on this in a different manner um it still should include the language and we need
to decide which committee is going to handle adding that language if you will to get the backup to it so it should go to the finance commit the the information she received from other municipalities correct so it could go to finance I guess we're getting a little like C I mean you had a motion in a
second to approve the originally drafted ordinance technically before we get too far down the road where there's multiple motions pending you're not supposed to take any other vote until that motion is dealt with either the person who made the motion in the second can resend it right or you can call the vote and if
you don't want to approve the version as drafted then you vote no then you I just don't want to get in the scat we have 15 motions correct pending corre why do that but then when it seemed to be the way folks were going I said okay yeah you're correct so where are we with the
Motions you have a motion in a second to approve as originally drafted so I think I think councelor deato made that motion he has to agree to resend it I seconded no no you um you called for it I res okay
so okay so I make my motion to amend um the draft ordinance 0121 -225 to include to uh include the language under B to be 45 days not 30
days I will second that so we got to vote on in favor yeah thank you I'm sorry all in favor I I I any opposed I'm I'm opposed not to your Amendment I'm just opposed to passing
this without uh having any language in it that will help help the residents and I know that when they are not able to pay these charges I know that I will be one of the people that will be trying very hard to help them come up with
those resources so um all right we're ready to move on we're going to go to yeah so we made a motion to amend now you have to make a motion in a second to approve that amended that amended ordinance sorry not to approve it to
approve it on first reading okay you're still going to have to come back in two weeks second you second oh second okay there's been a a movement and this and a second um all in favor I all
opposed roll call oh you want me to roll call okay roll call thank you Deputy Mayor Anderson yes Council Birmingham yes councel damato yes councelor lochman yes councelor Toller I have a question are we voting to add the language or not
we voted to add the language so at this point it's with the 45 days in it but what about the cost savings no that was not voted on so now the ordinance has been amended where it's 45 days notice for the owner okay thank you yes Council Williams yes mayor Baskerville
no okay okay we're going to go to new business ordinance just and which committee is going to work on the language that you're suggesting the finance it's all about trility Mobility the part the portion that I'm working on
is going to be well you ask a question and I was just answering it and the portion that I'm interested in working on will go to the finance committee because it's about finances new business ordinance
0256 um councelor Burmingham that ordinance I'd like to pull um it was generally a consensus that we did not need that to move forward with what we're going to do on the 28th of this month that is something
that I am U going to be working on uh with the um Park and Recreation um director Miss camarado and I also sent a copy to the manager I think that it's very important
that we have um a a whole harmless and a um some insurance regarding the types of things that people put up in the township but for this evening I'd
like to withdraw ordinance 0256 discussion all in favor any opposed okay moving on to new business resolution c r 25-31 Bill list um councelor lochman
please no did you do did Birmingham no I don't want to skip past you okay Council lochman I make I make a motion to accept the bill list um where Bill list sorry resolution whereas invoices against Township of Monclair in favor of the
following persons for the amount set opposite their respective names have been received duly audited and found correct now therefore be it resolved by the Council of the township of Montclair in the county of Essex that said invoices be and they are hereby ordered
paid and that such and that checks be drawn by the finance department to the order of such persons for the amounts respectively and here and after stated on the schedule attached here to and made a part hereof this is a council meeting date to 11 25 the total amount is
7,644 18655 I so move roll call please if there's a discussion councelor Toler yes thank you um I see that there's um two cdbg programs listed on here um on page
well there no page numbers isn't paginated but um yeah up I'm just well Miss T isn't here but you and I had a zoom with her and she explained to us something different than what I see here listed as two
organizations to receive funding so I'm just try you know she's not here I need an explanation on it and then I also have a question about neglia where we're paying $58,000 again on Engineering Services
are they do we have any invoices or can anyone explain the work that was done for this amount is this a blanket purchase order or is this a new purchase order uh Mr Ashley's at six so we will have to wait until the next meeting I don't have the I don't bring the backup
for the bills list I'd like to table that one I just need some explanation I it's a lot of money because I just feel like our bill is should have a little more backup to this so we can see exactly what we're paying I know that some purchase orders are St standard I know that some of them
are blanket which means they can just be pulled and paid um but without any backup to see what we're paying 58,000 58 it's just to me it's a little unacceptable um there was one other and the reason I'm tbling the two
CBD CB uh grants is because this Zoom meeting that M and I had with Miss tally I'm not sure how one of these made it onto the list for payment because that's not what we discuss they can easily be added on to the next bill list but we
need to hear from Miss to do you need the vendor number Miss uh Madam clerk if you can give me the purchase order number of vender number whatever okay I'll give you the purchase order number for the first one
25328 the next purchase order number is 25191 the next purchase order would be 2 5 380 25 I'm sorry say the last one again please 538 380 thank
you um and if anyone else has any other questions about these bills I'll yield my time uh mayor yes Council damato I just have to eye poop at the uh air duct cleaning I get ads for air duct cleaning
on Facebook and I had no idea of such a good business $28,000 for one building that's for one building M cleaning the air ducts in this building
cleaning anyone else councilor Williams no anyone else roll call Madam clerk Deputy Mayor Anderson yes councilor Birmingham yes councel damato yes
councelor lman yes councel Toler yes right yes I noted that okay thank you councelor Williams yes mayor Baskerville yes um with the noted changes as per counselor Toler we're going to move on to uh
resolution I mean new business resolution D Deputy Mayor resolution authorizing Award of a fair and open contract there's no number on agenda is there one on there's
not we assign it resolution r 25032 r 2532 okay thank you um resolution r25 032 resolution authorizing Award of a fair and open contract to purchase vehicle from route
23 Automall pursuant to Bergen County cooperative purchasing purchasing system contract number bc- B-24 d43 and I so move second discussion yes councelor toer
thank you um this is for a Ford Mustang for whom for the health health and human services this is Amy Amy's Department um when she presented last meeting she stated that that grant money would be you know
for salaries she didn't mention travel uh this car this vehicle gas Insurance repairs you know who's going to pay for this um it's replacing a vehicle that we we use but we don't have any other
vehicle on in our in our MP most of our vehicles are in excess of 20 years old I think this one I think is right up to westwell it wouldn't work we'd have to pay how much are we paying for this car and this
this grant money is only given us what $9,000 towards it councelor Toler with your permission I'd like to um allow Miss Monaco to um sure help us here so this has nothing to do with the West CW
good evening thank you for being with us oh you're welcome you're welcome um so this is just a replacement of a vehicle that was commissioned at the end of 2023 and I had requested Capital last year but because the budget passed late I wasn't able to go ahead
and purchase the vehicle um and the prior Council was deciding whether to do EVS or hybrids and so there was just a delay um so we were replacing a 2008 Ford Escape um that wasn't able to be repaired um so we've been down one
vehicle and it's been challenging especially for the nurses and the inspectors um because if we have don't have enough Vehicles then all the inspectors can't be out in the field at the same time um so that's been a challenge the nurses this was actually
the nursing vehicle um their second one because they have five nurses and they would split up and do Audits and things and so this is actually um you know going to help alleviate some of that pressure but this was not anything to do with the West cwood contract this
preceded that right no I understand that it doesn't what I'm saying is those nurses now have to travel so you're saying they now need a car then my other question was and it's not for you to answer we don't have another vehicle in our Fleet that can be used instead of buying a new
vehicle no I mean they're all allocated the goal is to replace the vehicles we have a we have an age Fleet that has been maintained in many of the vehicles are held together by duct tape literally um they're decommissioned at the very last you know we can't get anything else out
of them Council would it make more sense for us to because I did ask for a report I know it's going to take a minute for you to get it together I hope you receive my email we need a we need an intake on all of our vehicles we need to know the mileage you know the lifespan left on them and things of that nature
and then perhaps going forward if we do need to buy new vehicles we can work out a deal with the company to get what we need in in one shot because this peace mealing it it just doesn't feel right to me um and I think it would just be money better spent to do first of all an
assessment of what we have I can provide you with the assessment the assessment is we have a fleet that's been neglected for years but we took the direction we buy off a co-op these these electric vehicles are on uh available for one day and then
they're not and that's why it's on there for a vote tonight so but it's up to you whether or not we're going to be replacing the vehicles um councelor Willam Willam and I don't I don't want to pile on here but
to uh Council toler's point so backing you up to council toler's point I think that probably we need to have a car vehicle replacement plan just all across the board you know just over 5ye period of
time based on the age and you know stuff like that just so that we can properly budget and to council toler's Point again you know we're we're getting these things and I'm not saying that there isn't a need for it but we just need to kind of plan like this vehicle uh 2023
so we knew this but we're we just found out about this on Friday when we got the agenda so you know just a little bit uh better planning as we go through the budget the other thing here is I know that each department has different needs and you know I understand the parking
utility has the need for you know an SUV you know because there you know has have to be out in all sorts of Dr but does every Department need to have an SUV uh you know SUVs tend to be a little bit more expensive and I know that we're going green EVS are more expensive I'm
totally in support of that but it seems this is the third Machi here which you know is it's it's somewhat of a luxury vehicle I think like General Motors or whatever case may be they have the bolt or whatever other vehicles that are a
little less expensive so I'm just wondering have we looked at those and I I know that we're using a co-op and you said vehicle's there one day and not there just if you right so the garage um the main mechanic Rick had made a recommendation to stick with
Fords because of their ability you know their relationship working with different Ford dealers to replace Parts um to get them serviced because none of these EVS are going to be serviced in house they're all going to have to go out um so you may be aware of that um so
it was a recommendation to go with Ford I spoke with Manny after the parking Vehicles were purchased um and these are the base models we didn't get anything extra um and we're saving $10,000 by using grant money so I'm using the
capital that I was allocated last year but then it was the 10,000 you know I talked to Lisa Johnson who has all this you know EV related uh grant funding and so we're using at least 10,000 to try to cut the cost um because originally I had budgeted for a gas vehicle um for and
that's why I only had the 35 just yeah then I want to dig you back on what you're saying you yeah so I I appreciate you know you sharing the thought process that went behind it you know you want to stay with forward just so and I I'll tell you that EVS tend to be expensive
and one of the thing is behind it is that um you can only use in a certified mechanic like if you have Tesla for whatever reason you can only use a Certified mechanic and not every mechanic will get certified because it's
very expensive to get certified and they tend to cost three times the cost of a regular mechanic to get a service so Ford has the infrastructure right where you can go to different Ford dealers and stuff like that so I'm just saying all this for the people at home to know you
know what's kind of going behind us uh yeah sorry mayor but just to piggy back on um the discussion about the vehicles so I'm looking on the 2025 um Township vehicle listing and it's showing 1 2 3 4 five 6 7 8 nine
vehicles and um we got some explanation from the manager condition that they're in there some of them in 2022 I think the latest one here is 2016 I see it 209 and 2020 I also see that um at one point
in time we were going for the escape and I'm just wondering in terms of pricing of vehicles because you heard us tonight talking about you know we're looking for every dime that we can save so that we'll be able to put some money
to save lives here right is the Mustang that you chose um cheaper than the Escape or is that cheap what how did we end up with the Mustang um because of the you know the council heading towards going for an EV instead of a gas vehicle
so there's there's the regular Escape which would be about 35,000 there's the hybrid which is a little bit more and then the full EV is you know comes in around 45,000 um so so that's the only reason otherwise I would have just gotten an
escape um and they were working fine for a you before the Escape yeah I mean we you know I mean the one from 2008 eventually The Brak you know module went on it and that's why Rick D commissioned it but the capes are fine and that's
what we have um for the majority of our vehicles right now so and um thank you and I think it's important that people that may be listening understand that you know where it says Health Department we're not just talking about the nursing nursing staff under the health
department we have the animal shelter uh we have our community farm and other staff there and I think that that's important when we have these discussions for people to know at home because when we talk about certain types of vehicle certainly when you're talking about
animal transport you can visualize something else I'm still not quite with the Mustang thing but for an animal transport you might see different so I think it's important when we have these things that we have information that that will help people to better
understand what we're talking about when I'm counting the numbers of vehicles now how many vehicles do you require for your uh nursing team um I mean so it would be helpful to have a second one at least part of the time CU we there's one right now that is
kind of you know set aside for the nurses um and then the inspectors really have the rest of them um then and and myself I have you know a vehicle that I use um the other thing is that we have a social worker now that we never had
previously and she's out all day in the community she has no access to a vehicle Judy Hurley the senior services director she's out a lot at meetings and the different sites she has no vehicle access I mean we try to you know obviously if they're going to a
conference we try to you know allow them you know to take it and we just don't then maybe one inspector isn't able to go out that day uh Lisa Johnson sometimes needs a vehicle for conferences again she'll work with the inspectors to try to schedule that so right the animal shelter has separate
vehicles so I should say that um because they do need customization for their vehicles um so they have an expedition from 2022 that we got them that is fully customized they probably have the the newest vehicle actually of the whole department how many did we do any cost
assessment to see would it be a better um cost saving measure if we did mileage and gas for the people that have vehicles I know in some um other places in fact in my last job when we were doing things and we required a job we
were required to do mileage and gas I don't know if we've ever done a you know an assessment to see which way we might save more money for the taxpayers right right I mean I think that's something maybe the finance office would do overall um I haven't done that myself um
certainly we actually have a category right now for mileage reimbursement so if people do use their own vehicle um you know I tell them to track it there's a form and we can reimburse as well um a lot of times if people are going a mile
or two they don't end up submitting it so then they're you know using their own vehicle um but not getting reimbursed because it's not worth sort of the the hassle of you know tracking it so um also I don't know if there's a a liability issue if they're working and
they're using their own vehicle and there's an accident I I guess it's covered under covered under Insurance how many inspectors do you have um we have three inspectors councilor lman yeah I want um tell you if three inspectors I I thought
it might been more do the inspectors do they get paid when they do an inspection do they get paid by the restaurants or whatever no not paid I'm I shouldn't say do they get paid is there a fee that we charge for a restaurant inspection okay so not for the inspection per se but
every restaurant or retail food establishment has a business license they apply for every year right and we've actually doubled those rates in most cases because they hadn't been adjusted in 20 years um so we're actually you know going to bring in an extra $100,000 this year because of that
so because I was what I was driving at so to speak was um if we have another car does that allow us to do more inspections and therefore increase the fees that we get yeah so it doesn't allow us to increase the fees because they pay once well I mean we get more if
they do more inspections right yeah I mean it's not per inspection unless they have a conditional and then we have to reinspect and then we do charge an additional fee if they don't comply and of course there's summonses if they don't comply I mean that's the other thing um I should also mention that
we're doing twice as many restaurant inspections this year as we did last year because um we found a lot of non-compliant restaurants and so we're actually going to be now doubling up on all the risk three and fours which are most of your typical restaurants fours
are typically Sushi um restaurants um so we're going to also have an increased volume of you know people the inspectors going out yes councilor damato um thanks for for coming uh I just want to say that so I pushed originally very hard to get us to
be buying like EVS they cost a little more that's just a fact of life I just want to validate what the manager was saying that in fact there is usually uh not a lot of inventory on lots and so when we see them we have to kind of grab them there's
absolutely uh a rationale for um uh having the same car in in the fleet you don't want to have a bunch of different vehicles that said I did push for the gem smaller vehicle for the parking utility which is a almost like a golf
cart size thing which is kind of cool and then had a great conversation with them and understood that that they have power needs because of cameras and all these other things that they can't do it I think that the Maki is a great vehicle for our Fleet I mean there there could
be ones that were better but they just don't exist and a smaller thing Americans like cars of this size it is not a big SUV right it's like a crossover as my understanding it's a crossover it's from what I understand quite
reliable um and it's spiffy I like it I think it makes the town look good it's not extravagant and I think you should enjoy it and I'm going to vote for it thank you can I just add one thing
yes sir inter manager I just want to say that if the if there was a the capital money from the 2000 budget allowed for these cars as part of that replacement plan that we do you know they're not randomly put into the capital budget to
to buy vehicles the same thing with trucks and everything else so the money is there as part of that replacement plan maybe we've not some years there it's not as robust as it could be but that's part of what happens we put the money in the health department last year
they need a car the money goes in that's part of our plan to replace Vehicles so I I don't want you to think this was a random thing it was it's part of that so just wanted to say that for the record councilor Toler again I just feel like we need to get an overhaul on all
the fleets the entire fleet what we have what we don't have um I understand what you're saying about putting the money that was put aside for Capital last year versus using it this year but wouldn't that money be better served if we used it to do an overhaul and maybe buy four
cars instead of one I don't know I'm just throwing things out here to see it just seems like every meeting there's a new vehicle a new spreader a new this and there's got to be a what better way to do things especially if we have to cut money we need to save money I'm just trying to understand how we're very
comfortable with this but we don't want to open a firehouse um councelor Birmingham well I guess when you're replacing a fleet like I you replace one at a time because that's you cycle them out I don't know that we would be buying five at a time asked for a report from
the manager because it was my ask was very specific and I think I copied you on it counselor damato and if we can all get that report then we can sit down and make an informed decision about how we go about assessing our Fleet and what we need because to do it like this every
single meeting this is money going out the window just my opinion just my op I think M Dr Johnson has a list I believe also of of vehicles and do we have to have employees using cars they can't use their own cars is there some stipulation
or ordinance that says they must use a Township car to conduct business I'm just asking I thought that's what we said we would look into if they get if they're getting uh the IRS they could use their own cars the IRS has a mileage schedule
that uh right yeah I mean at the board of ed people submit reimbursement for miles the gas just the miles the mil that covers the miles and it covers the maintenance and it covers the depreciation so did you did was there a motion where are we with this because I
hear what you're saying councelor Toler it seems as though you want us to pull this until we get some data some information okay but where are we um Madam clerk where are we in this process we currently have a motion on the floor to adopt this resolution the movement is
Deputy Mary Anderson the second is Council Williams any further yes Council Birmingham can you just clarify because the West calwell deal has come up right this car is not related because you how often will you be going to West calwell
um once a month for blood pressure clinics and during the Spring and fall for immunization audits for a period of a couple of weeks okay everything else will be done from the office in Monclair so most of it is you're on the computer check like right checking um case
investigations um you know for communicable disease outbreaks so we've had outbreaks in some of the long-term cares you know because of flu and such and so we have to it it's just it's a lot of paperwork and reporting to the state and so that
we do remotely okay um so most of it is remote and you within the contract you have built in that if it's more hours than anticipated right you will Char if it's over 15 hours we're going to charge whether it's over you're not buying this car
specifically for that in fact I have the email that I got from Rick showing when we needed to do the replacement so if anyone wants to say it I I have it here this has nothing to do with West C is there is there any urgency on um voting on this tonight or um you know would
there be some benefits for um some of us up here that may wish to get the information that councelor toller's saying is there um I mean does this have to be done tonight if some of the council members would like more information the issue is because they
come up so infrequently on such high demand the reason why we put it on for tonight was we there's no guarantees it'll be available two weeks from now a chance we have to take if I could just add they're pulling back on making EVS because of the credits going away um
with all the changes at the federal level so it's going to be hard hard and harder probably to get the vehicles and so um there's a motion here did anyone else wish to ask any other questions to help get information that
you need to make an informed vote I'm I'm I need the report you know I don't know which way the council wishes to go with this but I would think if we're making you know very informed decisions and requesting data for everything we would want to look at the
report first before we vote on a vehicle but my yes councelor lockman but but chances are we will need one car so whether it's for this department or another department it strikes me that perhaps we should buy this while the strike the iron is you're okay with that
strike for the iron is hot because it seems like from what we've heard that we have vehicles that are reaching the end of their life so I would say for one vehic for tonight we should get this and I'm I'm very very very
interested in um the idea of doing a mileage um and um reimbursement that that type of thing because in terms of cost efficiency and I don't know I don't have the data I wish wish I did but I um
right I I think that there's a reason that so many other institutions whether there's schools or whether there other municipalities that they do a reimbursement for your mileage and a reimbursement for your gas and it may
come you turn out to be more cost efficient because when we do these things we then add this vehicle to our insurance right so we're purchasing we having insurance and we're doing other things so yeah right okay um are we all
ready to vote yeah I just wanted to say it's 70 cents per mile for uh mileage reimbursement approving a car means we're going to pay like you said the insurance we have to put gas in it we get a repair if there's a car accident I think no gas no gas EV okay uh repairs I
didn't hear it was EV my apologies um but 70 cents is the standard uh mileage reimbursement so so did you do the math what does that look like for me New Jersey Office of Management and budget puts out a uh
mileage reimbursement every year no so I I don't know I'm just trying to figure out how that we got the notice to how that compares to the um purchasing and doing the insurance you're driv yeah she said you going like what once a week or what did you say with the well that's
for West calwell that's for West calwell so we have all the inspectors that are going every day to Cedar Grove Monclair um you know and sometimes you know meetings and conferences there there are certain services that I think you do want to
have a Township marked car or Township provided car if people are going to show up at somebody's house I think they're going to be a little reluctant to let some person pulling up in a random Ford uh into their house the other thing that you might have if and again we could talk about this more in closed I don't want to talk about it too much out in
the open session but if someone's vehicle is damaged in the course of Prov providing services to the burrow there would be question as to whether we're liable for those damages and the repair of those damages whether that's through the insurance care you at
the end of the day it's coming out of it's coming out of our pocket so that's just something to consider as well yeah no just more and more and more things that keep coming out of our pocket and I I seem to be you know someone that's sitting up here tonight that's very concerned about trying to do some cost
savings I'm just trying to figure it out anyone else mayor just I'm sorry one last thing I just wanted to mention that we are doing some of the reimbursement for many of the staff because we have about 20 something staff that are covered by six
Vehicles so I mean so we definitely have people that you know would need to get reimbursed anyway um so we are doing that partially you know because we don't have 20 cars right thank you I appreciate that sure thank you um
Council Birmingham yes question do do our cars does our Fleet generally are there more than 50,000 miles typically on a car before it's retired do you have a sense I don't know if there's a cut off um we until they're
driven into the ground right so so if you're charging 70 cents a mile if people can charge 70 cents a mile and that's going to go up every year probably then if you're driving I mean I think it's a fairly
um you know yeah okay thank you so um manager La POA did you have any idea um about how much of the time these cars that we purchased year after year and whenever we purch just sitting outside because every day I pull into
the parking lot and when I leave at night I see cars just sitting here so I'm just trying to find out how many are actually driven and how many are just sitting there and are we doing the best you know that we can versus again doing
the mileage and the gas thing as as uh director Monaco said we do you know majority of her staff gets reimbursed but the vehicles here these for the most part are not take-home Vehicles so people drive to work use the vehicle for work and then they bring the
vehicle back so when you come in in the evening and see the cars there that's why they're there they're not just sitting there R randomly waiting to be assigned we have very very few people who take the vehicles home so because of the cost issue do we ever sell any vehicles to get some money we do the
auction I can get you that information too I don't think there's much there it's Salvage thank you um yes councilor um yes tomato I just you know I should uh we should recognize that we're getting an
EV that maybe cost a little bit more not not tremendously more for that quality vehicle in part because or we should be doing it in part because we have a climate action plan that was bequeathed To Us by the last Council and we're not
really doing much and so not only you know replacing old vehicles that are less efficient as they get older uh you know internal combustion vehicles with electric vehicles is something that we're quasi mandated to do and the other
thing is that it Models Behavior so you know by us having an electric Fleet or signs of ones and ones that that's attractive it is going to encourage other people to do the same and and so I mean it it in and of itself that vehicle
has a demonstration effect that's positive um no and it's not that's not nothing I mean it's no it's not and and I apologize I'm laughing because Jerry freed had an electrical vehicle in 2008 and I'm sitting up here let's ask Jerry freed how that worked out for him I
don't think anybody saw Jerry r is Eevee all for trying to improve the environment so I I think I think it's a and again they're going to they're not easy to get so anyone else roll call please Deputy Mayor
Anderson yes Council Birmingham yes councelor deato yes councel lochman yes councelor Toler no councelor Williams yes mayor Baskerville no okay um we're going to take a five minute break and then we're going to come back and we will start with our uh
discussion items and we have 20 three discussion items so we're going to take a f minute break e e e e e
e e e e e e e e e e
e e e e e e e e e I thank you for your patience and we'd
like to thank uh counselor rahum Williams for his Crispy Cream Donuts hot out of the oven and now we're going to move on to discussion items I'm going to um Mo
yes I'm going to um in just one moment please sir I'm going to um go a little bit out of order I'd like to take 19 the topic of woodman field and I'd like for that to be our um first
discussion at this point in time I know some of the residents are here and certainly our chairman Harrison is here and possibly uh some attorney representation I'm not sure who all is here for this but I'd like to put that
up next please um counselor Birmingham um yes thank you mayor um so I know you and I both wanted this topic on the agenda so we could um reach some hopefully some resolution around
Woodman field I think all of us um one of the things that I wanted we just wanted to make sure is that you know the the baseball season starts in March I think they're allowed to start practice and tryouts and we really don't want to
do anything at this point that would keep them from um being able to play so I think we have assured you know that that we can do that without but we can still work through some of the issues
that that remain around the field so Mr Garcia um we've discussed and you know I don't want to we we hear a lot about this the lawsuit and the settlement and I don't want to necessarily go through
all of that cuz that is you know those are legal topics I don't want to do that but at this time I would like you I would like to direct you or and and hopefully my other C counselors um would agree just to discuss with the
Boe going to the zoning board to resolve some of these outstanding matters and you know I think one of them particularly is that fence that was built it is clanging and it is very disruptive ietting against the nting
against the pole the the you know offense that was built high you know and um it's that's just one issue so um this I think we've discussed this amongst um several of the the people and
so um my understanding is we can't necessarily Force the Boe to go to the zoning board but that would be you would at Le at least at this point we're going to try you couldn't yeah we as we discussed last time we're not going to get into
the details out here in Open Session you can't force them to go per se there's certain actions you could take that would perhaps create great incentive for them to to go before them but yeah you can't just you can't just snap your fingers and make them appear they have to they have to go of their own own
valtion okay so does does this seem like a satis like a step in the right direction again to I think so I mean I I've I've had the opportunity over the past couple weeks to have a couple of conversations with with with Mr Harrison
I think I understand um what he's looking for um and I've I think Bill understands what I think would be the appropriate way to handle this um I know Mr Taylor counil to the board of ed for a very long time uh I think it's fair to
say that we have a pretty good working relationship we had some brief conversations today I'm happy to uh to engage with him and see if we can reach some sort of amicable resolution um to address you know most if not all the issues that uh that can be addressed and
so um I'm sorry were you finished maybe you should finish first no you can you can go ahead so I just want to make sure um Council Birmingham that I'm understanding so are you asking uh um or did you make a motion that the um our um
interim attorney go and ask that the uh members of the Board of Ed go before the Zoning Board of adjustment or what is the ask because I am fairly certain and um and This brilliant attorney is here
so I'm sure he's going to correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly certain that the ask is that they go before the zone own in Board of adjustments so is that what we're doing here yes that that it would be attorney
discussion to bring them to the zoning board okay so I'll I'll second that motion and I don't I guess do we need to make this is what I wasn't clear I have my direct directive it's in the minutes um I'm comfortable that you don't need to make a motion in a second or what
would be the difference for me there is no there is no difference it's just just you taking the time and effort to go through making a motion in a second and calling a roll call but you're just directing me to take action um which you have the authority to do so if we if you make a motion and I second it and everyone
votes on it the way that they feel then we'll have something um on the record so since it doesn't make a difference um that would be my preference do you have is there any reason why not to do that um only because it wasn't on the
agenda but but no I mean it I'm happy to whatever will move this forward and again doing this in the spirit of you know making the you know getting the best possible outcome for everyone um I
think and I think there's been hopefully we can reach a resolution that will be and and I think the goal would be to have we can I'm sure there's going to be discussions amongst all three of us as to what level of review there is whether it's full review versus courtesy review
but the one thing that we'd want to ensure is that there is agreement that pending any form of review this the school would have uh some sort of temporary Co where they're able to use the field and the baseball season can go on pending the review yeah I mean do we need to make
that decision I mean I think we all the field I mean I'm going to bring back any sort of settlement to you to approve you don't have to make that decision tonight but I think that that would that would sort of be the goal here right yeah I think that that everybody that that I've heard speak on the matter is um equally excited about having our ball players be
begin the season on time I've spoken with many of the neighbors and I think that they stand with us in terms of having that but um on top of that there's some things that we really need to to resolve first so I'd like to second the motion to have you go and to
um try to compel the appropriate people to go before the Zoning Board of adjustments and so we can resolve the matter any discussion know that I believe I'm being author I believe that I'm being
authorized to engage all parties in in settlement talks to see if we can reach amicable settlement that's that's the way that I interpret it to get with the goal being review and uninterrupted use use of the field I think would be the the ideal goal here okay so in your mind
you're not expecting that they would go to the zoning Board of adjustments because we we heard again tonight that you know the council can't do these things so are you you're not not thinking that that you would go encourage them to go to the zoning board whether they go on their on acc court or
how they get there in in my mind they would end up in front of the Zoning Board of adjustments and there would be um some understanding between those bodies I don't understand that question um yeah the goal is to get them to go to the
zoning board okay thank you I mean also well never mind no you you just did not say that or I didn't hear you if you did say that the goal was to get them to go in front of the zoning board I heard you I thought that was a directive after the last meeting but well this is a new meeting and I
just want to make sure especially since Council damato said he wasn't sure I wanted to make sure that we're all sure because we are going to do a roll call vote um with no further discussion Madam clerk would you please do a roll call vote okay so he's still not clear on so
you are voting on whether we are directing the attorney to talk with the Boe attorney and Mr Harrison around to take the field to the for a review by the zoning board and discussion councelor
deato no okay Madam clerk Deputy Mayor Anderson yes Council Birmingham yes councel deato yes councel L yes councelor Toler yes councelor Williams yes mayor Baskerville yes thank you um
next we're going to move on to the okay so um manager Lola you ask if you go through the list like we sometimes do I find that to be very helpful thank
you I I have a question please is there um any reason why we couldn't change the August meeting to the 5ifth instead of the 12th you wants theule this resolution that one thing okay I'm sorry sorry about that I said this
resolution was specific to the election issue okay but you can change your schedule we can change at any time however yeah anything okay all righty thank you okay okay number two is a resolution authorizing the award of a fair and open contract for Township HVAC repair and
maintenance services uh we received four bids one was disqualified this is an open-end repair and maintenance contract not to exceed $150,000 okay number three is a resolution authorizing an eer emergency
pursuant to njs 4A colon 11-6 for the repair of water main break at a21 Bloomfield Avenue this break occurred in uh in December we had declared an emergency hired a company to fix it now this is the auth
authorization uh for the contract and payment yes councelor Williams and then councelor lochman yeah just the date on the memo is that what you you guys are always says May 2nd 2024 but is talking about an event on
December 12th Mr Prima the date of your memo should be February 2nd that's okay excuse me Madam mayor after councilman going next councilman sure yeah it's just kind of a why does
it take so long to pay a bill one of the great rhetorical questions he's got answer that so good evening Michael Prima Acting Superintendent water and store utility um usually when we declare an emergency for something like this the
contractor will come in and depending on when they submit the bill is how we pay it and then obviously we have to ensure they have certified payrolls do the resolution memo everything and the justification so it does take some time to go through the process of paying the bill Council Toler yes thank you um just
a wondering where the emergency service was performed for this and have we used this vendor in the past or is this a new vendor uh no we've used this vendor in the past this is our Emergency Services Paving vendor so this was actually for um if this was 821 Bloomfield da this was for Paving uh what happens up there
is when the water main breaks it's at a high pressure of 165 PSI attached to our 2.5 million gallon tank so there's a lot of volume that goes downhill and it does a lot of damage to the roadway uh more than that is within in our scope of repair so what we have to have them do is come in and actually Mill it and
repave it from top to bottom so that way it's safe for travel and how much did they charge us last year for this type of work um I'd have to look and see this was a bigger patch this year this one did more damage so I know in the past you know some of them cost 38,000 some
cost 41 so it all depends on the size of the patch they actually have to do and the type of work that's involved with it okay and just not another question for you but Madame mayor um I didn't know we were going to discuss these as we we going through them so when we're done I need to go back to item two on the discussion agenda items we can go
through on the items that we're we're here now yeah we we've passed two we're we were just discussing three I didn't realize we can we can discuss them as we go okay so we can come back to two we can finish the list that's fine okay I get it so when we But but so everybody knows if if you need to discuss them as
we go that's fine too but we'll come back to two Okay thank you manager Lola okay uh number four is a resolution authorizing an amendment authorizing Amendment Three to the fair and open contract to Suburban Consulting
Engineers to provide Professional Services to utility engineers and what this is is not an increase in money it is a reallocation of funds amongst the three uh engineering firms there we're no longer using CP we reduced one and
we're increasing the other and if you look on the second page where it's uh the N for be resolved under item three it should it should not say shall remain $220,000 it should say it was it is increased
$220,000 may I yes um councilor toer yeah I'm just wondering why there's an increase and how much was the original contract for this um there is an increase this year because we are ganet Fleming needs an increase due to the Burnside cleanup that we are going through uh late ' 880s
early 90s there was a diesel tank in the ground at our watchong Pump Station that leaked and we are currently trying to go through the process of gaining access agreements and other things to remediate the the diesel fuel that's in the ground and this CPI coincides with 6A is that
correct or no yes so if you look at what we gave to Suburban Consulting Engineers for 6 and 6A um they had money in water last year and not a lot of money in soures but they're going to be doing construction uh Administration
observance for the two projects we're going to be awarding so that's why we gave them more money and sores this year about $130,000 is just going to go towards the oversight of the two projects that we're going to be putting out okay and then back to to I guess number four
um am I reading this correctly there's 31,000 just for administration fees or I'm just trying to see what at 31,000 in in terms of um Suburban Consulting Engineers that is for the manhole rehabil Rehabilitation project so that
is for them to have inspectors on site um as well as while they're out there they GIS the man holes for us they give us as builts and they ensure uh we also get engineering reports from them okay so when we go back to 6A it looks like there's another 98300 yes that is for the slip lining
project so Suburban Consulting Engineers is overseeing two separate sore projects for us one is uh slip lining what they do is they put a liner in and they inflate it that uh renews the life of the Sor Mains and the other the 31,000 is for manhole rehabilitations that is
to remove inii from the system which is infiltration intrusion of groundwater to not inundate the sord system thank you for the clarification not a problem anyone else okay manager Lola Mike you want to
stay up here for 6 and 6 a.m. number five that's fine I you said some other ones okay number five is a resolution authorizing the renewal of a fair and open contract for Township uh New Jersey licensed plumbing services there was an original contract the onee
contract two separate one-ear options we are seeking to exercise the second and final option to renew the contract with William J guini Inc for Township plumbing services and it's not to exceed uh $40,000 for the year do we know how much the
agreement was for 2024 that not to exceed amount because this year it's 40,000 I'm just curious what 2024 is not to I believe it's the same but I will I will double check that okay okay now mik six and
6A item number six is for the sanitary sore manhole Rehabilitation this is for construction uh Administration and constru ruction observ and service for this project this would be Suburban Consulting Engineers having an inspector on site they said giving us as builds
towards these projects and ensuring that the gring that is done in these manholes is done to correctly into standard so that's a total of 175 Al together for six and 6A 6 and 6A is a total that that'll bring us to a total
of essentially $130,000 um what we did was we put the extra money in towards sore because we ALS want to design the upgrade to our Sky toop lift station we have a small lift station that's off Sky toop Terrace what that does is that's a lowline neighborhood we have to pump the sewage
water up to Alexander a from there that has not been rehabilitated since it was put in so before something goes seriously wrong with that we would like to get ahead of it and upgrade it and then 6A is again it's construction observance and administration for the source slip r
lining project uh this will be in our Zone Q area which that is that's uh Christopher Street Walnut the essentially ward two and Ward 4 it's the lower areas below Grove Street over there um we have some problem areas over
there uh we put this project out the bid last year this is the same project that came back at $25 million uh we got it this time to come back at I believe it was under a million this time because the engineers put the spec out right which save the town about a million and half dollars
so we're just looking to move forward and continue to upgrade the systems as needed thank you no problem Council I think you have the next few resolutions on there sure um item seven is as we discussed last week
requesting an amendment um to the award of Professional Service contract um I'm sorry seven is for is for conflict and general litigations attorney I'm sorry what are we doing here no but I'm just saying why is he
because they're his resolutions they the Law Department doesn't report to me okay so they're his his to present I don't because I didn't know no one Council I'm sorry as we discussed last as we discussed last week um there's
litigation that was left behind that was left behind for um the in-house law Department to do um I need a contract to assign that litigation it doesn't have to be to my firm um but if if I'm going to do it I need a litigation contract to
do it uh I think your own ordinances or or policies even said even when when you're full-time in-house Council was here they were supposed to be compensated additionally for for performing litigation um so this this is standard like my contract to come to these meetings and do day-to-day wouldn't
wouldn't cover litigation you have five or six matters that need to be tended to somebody needs to tend to them we need to award a contract to somebody on that I just have one councelor Toler right I just want to say there's a typo in the second where or the fourth wear as because it says we're as on December
17th 2025 so we ain't there yet um no that's okay but I just have a question because if we're looking at seven then that means we're going to have to look at eight and I'm just trying to get on eight didn't come from me counselor no that's fine I'm asking about a conflict
of interest because it is the firm you work for so I'm just trying to make sure like if we agree with seven how do we I mean agree with 82 because it's not uncommon for people to be to have mult multiple roles for municipality again I
didn't ask for number eight that came out of your HR department no no I I I understand that but I'm just trying to get some legal Beagle from you yeah about conflict there's no conflict I mean the firm you hired the firm to represent you the firm represents you could represent you in multiple capacities uh I don't I don't think
we're the only doing that for you manager I I have a question um for you so if I um since we don't have um another attorney at this time that that we have like um an assistant right we
just have one um attorney the interim is that correct cuz I would like to have somebody to review these with me and help me understand that that that's not the person that's being you know asking for the money so
who would we go to I I can work with you to explain at least in my time here in the past since 2023 who we hired to do what clar jacobe where where Mr Garcia is from that we
caught labor but it really is Personnel matters assigned to the HR department okay they do some negotiations but a lot of the Personnel issues ETC no I just need I need some help to understand even like he said with conflicts Council we
had yeah we have other labor Council we have econ we have um uh uh Redevelopment Council we have a whole bunch of firms right that we've used in the past that we you pre-qualified firms for that but we you have not made a decision on who
you want to award that work to but we have some pre-qualified people that live right here in mon Clair from the list that that I saw and I'm just trying to find out why it looks like at least maybe two three of these pre-qualified the groups are going to clear and and
then we have an an attorney here who needs some additional funds that's the part and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it I just need to have somebody that is not involved with getting additional monies explain it to me and then since we keep talking about
it Mont Clair we want to hire monair residents and you know we want to do this that and the other I I just need to get more information so if you're able to do that you know I would like to um have that discussion and get that information from you and if not then I'd
like to get somebody else that's like bre who had the awards in the past two years can I can I add some context to to these on seven I don't care which firm if you want a different firm that's fine with me but but I really need a motion
in a second tonight to award someone a contract to do that litigation I one second I listed myself because Paul was doing it so I just figured if Paul was doing that litigation then it would stay with with the whoever you assigned as the town attorney I don't need to have it if there's a different firm that you
want that's great we can scratch the name put that firm's name in but I do I am asking you strongly asking you to take a motion in a second to assign someone to start handling these these litigation matters yeah I I understood that when I asked my question and um I I
I still have a right to have um an attorney explain these things to me that is not the person that's going to get the money or a firm that they work for and I just think that that's makes it everything clean and it makes it clear to me that there's no conflict it makes
it clear to the many residents who were asking questions about padding of um you know things when have a person that is able to to um give business to to a firm they work for I don't know I'm not I
excuse me I'm going to finish what I'm saying and then I will call on you after I call on counselor Toller and so I just want to make sure that I have answers because I am responsive to the community
when they ask me these things and right now I'm not very clear on why we just keep rolling in into the same group just cuz somebody has done it for four years or whatever I mean we've seen things done in the last few years that maybe would make us think let's go in a
different direction and again we say we're looking for women businesses I don't know what the breakdown is you might have a bunch of women in your group you may not you might have a bunch of African-Americans you may not I just need more information so that's that
that's all I'm asking for an opportunity to get some information I know doesn't discri very much managera for answering my question councelor Toler I recognize you at this time thank you um I just want to this
isn't about number seven this is about number eight because I know in December uh 2024 I think it was resolution 24306 we awarded hat Phil Schwarz as the labor and employment attorney so miss Dawkins isn't here I'm just trying to
understand why we need to appoint this firm when we have have a resolution on the books already for that because we it was it's always been split so one does more the labor and the other one does the the Personnel stuff the litigation and all
that stuff and it's mayor I want to I want to just say this and I with all due respect to everybody here the issue we have here is that the governing body has not decided how we're going to hire in-house Council not whatever so we're
just trying to fill those you know the the holes in the you know in the ship so we don't sink until you decide to do that so this isn't any thing to direct work it's just we have cases we need lawyers and we need to if you're going
to hire full-time uh somebody full-time on staff which I personally think you need to do too in addition to outside Council we have to come up with the process and whoever that is get it done cuz they then in turn what Paul did was manage
all of these other law law firms yeah that's a big part of what the the council does the attorney does they manage who's assigned to what make sure the work it's done they do settlement negotiations and we don't have that right now Mr Garcia is filling in but we now as we're in the middle of February
until we we need our people to be assigned these are active litigation matters so either we can't it's either they're assigned to do it or somebody has to be assigned to do it but we're we're under that pressure point so that's that's where we are we're just trying to fill the void until we you
know we're already into February and not hiring these people so as soon as you figure out who you want to hire and that's your prerogative we can I I appreciate that um manager and then my my other question would be is there uh any need for us to do this for a year
can we do it for six months and then you know reevaluate it because hope I mean we don't know where we're going to be with manager with with counsil whatever we don't know where we're going to be and I would personally feel more comfortable if we don't just send you know do year we're going to go for
another year for another year more money 200,000 to this firm maybe 300,000 to this firm I don't know but I just want to try to figure out if we did I would feel more comfortable if we did six months so that would give us a chance to look at these things rather than just keep rolling it
over because somebody said so so now we're going to give him another year of activity yes councilor deado it's a do not to exceed so it's not for that doesn't mean much so we can do that for so that that means we do for six months
we pay you use it there's nothing this isn't up for a vote this is a discussion right no no no I get that but he's asked to have it moved and to do it so that we can actually do the legal work that we need done I'm saying
you you don't have to pay we're not obliged to pay that amount rep at the very next meeting you could hire somebody else no that's important thank you counselor okay that's what I I need to understand all of that stuff and we
we don't want to be getting behind the eightball on these cases that I definitely don't but I also don't want to just be rolling over roll over money I appreciate I appreciate what you're doing I'm you're I think what we I appreciate you for answering the
question in a manner that I can um better visualized cool M May yes oh um Council deato will you finish no no I just again it's a temporary solution we have to deal with temporary solutions and then come up with a permanent one I mean a so I'm okay councel toer thank
you I'm okay with number seven which is the discussion around Mr Garcia um my question was about number eight and you know if we have had Phil Schwarz already on the books as a firm that we appointed back in December of 2024 this is the one
where we may need to table it pull it and have a discussion and see if hat Phil Schwarz can cover some of these other issues that this resolution says we need to do because I feel like it's a conflict of
interest it is a discussion May got it mayor I have have a question I I know I don't see Miss Dawkins I just would like to know for number eight why why is the why did she make the recommendation that if it's if it's true
that um that Hatfield schz was providing the services I'm just I'm just curious it'sa there was there was an award it was 3 up to 35,000 about to see $35,000 can you can you I'm sorry um Deputy Mayor can you explain what were you saying about a recommendation by U Miss
Dawkins so number eight is it is it Miss Dawkins is recommendation that we is this the recommendation that the firm um for Contin representation on these labor and employment matters change from Hatfield or now
we last year we we used both and clear jacobe has been assigned to the HR department I think this would be the fourth year in a row so this is not new okay then why are we paying hatville Schwarz I'm just and I guess Miss Dawkin would have to be here to answer I'm
sorry go ahead have two in case there's a conflict we have well there are conflict issues but also one is doing the Personnel stuff and the other one is doing like uh uh Hatfield Schwarz is working with me as we are doing the PBA
negotiations they also are handling some of this litigation other uh they represent us in the uh Morgan matter so there's all these different things that they're doing but there's a whole other part of this and other we have numerous uh cases that we're dealing with when we
terminate people and this and that and hearings Garcia that's what his firm was doing his firm was doing that separately Paul may have done some of that when he was here but his firm did that they also did a bunch of our investigations right and um so if we agree to number seven then
we wouldn't really need number eight because that same money is what he's requesting if we're doing seven and eight look like it's about $50,000 more from what I see so number one you you're going to you're going to spend whatever your
legal requirements me until we get so it's not like you're spending like so if if if Schwarz does the work and and you want Schwarz to do the work right Schwarz is probably going to that 35,000 that you budgeted for is exceptionally low they're going to come back here at some point and we're going to ask to
amend that and increase that cap so you're not spending an an extra Penny by taking Miss Dawkins recommendation on on on number eight you're going to address your legal needs as they arise if there are no legal needs that arise then you don't spend any money if if they are
some firm has to do them right and you're going to have to pay for that understand but I'm also saying this amount of money that we would set aside if we need it is actually the same amount of money that you're requested in number seven they're different services so seven is for litigate is it says litigation and conflict but it's mostly
for litigation right when you have when most of your litigation when it comes in it goes to the carrier there are some actions that don't get covered by the carrier right and in which case you need to assign someone to handle that litigation right if they if they don't involve money then the then the GIF does
not cover it for example we've been to the federal court of appeals on the leafblower issue and that's not covered by the GIF because it's a question of it's a constitutional issue whether or not the leaf blowing ordinance is legal I mean they may be going to the United
States Supreme Court I don't know so those kind of cases we have to pay unfortunately and they're very expensive I just do cuz I you know like I said I know we have a resolution in place already and I just wanted make sure we weren't overspending my priorities are my
priorities are s and 10 if you right my priorities are s and 10 eight did not come for me take as much time as you need sure but you have you you put a motion on the floor is that correct I can't make a motion I asked I I asked that's that's what you said you put a motion on the floor uh I I requested
that it be voted on tonight that seven and 10 be voted on tonight the eighth member of the council so mayor can I just clarify something mayor with with with respect to number seven Shen Anderson so number seven um just to be
clear that is to um we we we have pending litigation that needs some kind of attention right yes okay so just to be clear number seven is to allow you to um assign someone it allows me to have a
litigation partner from my firm handle the litigation okay can I ask a question yes um councelor lochman should we specify the ation that you'll be handling uh I wouldn't do that because then I'm going to have to come before you every time that there's an emergent
matter I mean I don't do that for any other okay just any other client and again to someone's Point earlier like generally most most public entities that I deal with once you pre-qualify at the first meeting those firms that pre-qualified get a contract it's a
one-year contract but it's use it as you lose it and they get it at the rate that they proposed in in their proposal and that way when stuff comes up you can just assign it out and you don't have to go through this extra step of putting putting a contract award on the resolution and having to wait and uh and
Je you know jeopardize the litigation take you the time the time is uh costly sometimes and I appreciate that my only concern is that I saw some that where I was told we're pre-qualified as well one um lives right here in Montclair I'm a
very firm believer on trying to hire home first all else being qualify all else being equal and I have questions in why we're not going to some of those pre-qualified that might um you know serve some of the other things that that we're looking for here and just going to
the same you know going to the the clear jacobe Al Fury as I said earlier I'm I'm certainly I have no objection if you if you want to choose another firm I think I explained why I put our firm on the resolution yeah no I'm I'm clear about what you said now and on your seven and
10 man did you have anything else you want to add are we ready to um councelor Toller did you have anything else anyone else have anything else no ready to move on V well we have to look at number 10 too you want to talk about 10 you want
to talk about we're going to move to we're going to move to number 10 is that you manager laola or is that the interim attorney Garcia that's Mr Garcia okay interim attorney Garcia I recognize
you thank you you're welcome um as you all know when we submitted our proposal to serve as interim we submitted it at at $175 per hour which is a reduced Municipal rate even for municipal rates it's much lower than you're paying some of your other firms to to do work in
Monclair at no point during the leadup to that process was there ever any discussion of there being a monthly cap and certainly not a weekly hours cap the first time and the only time time I heard of a of a monthly cap was with one member of this deis on the day of the
election and I said fine I'll I'll work with that for for the month of January we'll see how it goes and if we have to adjust we can we can adjust it later the demand here greatly exceeds the the $10,000 number despite a greatly exceeding I think I'm asking for a very
modest increase in the monthly rate to allow you to allow us to provide you the services that you need just let me provide a little additional Contex next right 10 uh I'm sorry $110,000 a month
at 175 means that I can Bill 57 hours a month when you break it down weekly it's a little over 14 hours a week of of services that I can build two weeks ago we spent 6 and a half hours alone just just just in the council meeting tonight
we're approaching our five on so you're reading up almost half of the weekly allotment just by attending the council meeting that doesn't include the Third River meeting right um and again all the day-to-day stuff that you listen Paul was doing a tremendous amount of tremendous amount of work for you Paul
was going above and beyond in terms of his the duties that he was performing um any other Municipal attorney that that I'm aware of and he actually had help too he was an additional person in that office right so what you were paying Paul in terms of salary and benefits and
the additional Assistant Attorney you're still well well below that even with the modest the modest increase that that that I'm requesting and that's the basis That's the basis for the request can you explain to me please the um Third River you you go to the third is that a
requirement I I was advised that uh yes the the the Monclair attorney is supposed to attend this third River committee meeting it it goes back to like the has that always been the situation we we provide the attorney for that one and Glenn Ridge provides the
attorney for the uh for the second Riv which is a lot more work Apparent from what I've seen um if I can just continue for one second yes I believe uh I voted for that earlier
resolution and um it was the first time I ever voted for something like that so I had no you know no idea uh no past experience and I think it was a mistake and that um what we should have
done because we were test driving a model of hiring an attorney like in the first part of this year which is to have a firm rather than an in-house attorney so really it's like not just that we needed an attorney to cover after Mr bur
left but we also wanted to see how it worked having a firm and I think what we should have done is not have any limit whatsoever not would I'm sorry not have any limit either on hours or we would have an hourly rate yes yes because the
idea is that then we see what it costs and the only Proviso I would have done was to be very clear that what we would want to have is very very good records you know of what those hours consisted of but we we're fooling
ourselves because we actually don't know what really the demand is because the attorney Mr Garcia is obviously playing he's working as hard as he can to try to squeeze more
time into into uh this limited amount that's there so we don't actually now have a real idea we don't have a good idea of what a permanent contract with a firm would look like I'm just saying it's sort of a thought experiment and uh
and I'm I'm you know I'm saying I didn't see it either and so but for the time being if he's doing the work if we have the hours and we know what it looks like then it is what it is and it is less than what our previous Suite look like
right so I think it's a perfect example of um why we should really consider um retaining a full-time attorney to be here that's on staff um and salary because it's just really difficult to um
determine and once somebody signs a contract and they said yes I'm you know excited to come here I've got a lot of experience I'm excellent and I'd like to be your full-time attorney for this Township of Montclair for a period of X then you know then we know what we're
getting and we know that they're going to come in here with the energy and excited to represent us and we don't have to have some of the questions that maybe some of us have now right but just again in Mr Garcia's defense legitimately he there was no way for him
to know what the crush of business would be he had a rough you know we talked about us a little bit but you know the point is that it's an experiment it's an experiment it's fun anyone else the Council of Birmingham yeah so um before
we started so a year ago this time there were two attorneys on staff being paid salaries and benefits um no she she resigned when we started so as of January or February she was
still here yes yes so we had we had an attorney and an assistant attorney and we have not yet hired our permanent replacement but in my my thought the um so so we now
have one attorney doing that work and we're paying him less than one of those attorneys um so my thought when we put the um cap on was because there was some uncertainty about we didn't want to
suddenly be like you know you owe us $500,000 or something so we put a cap on at the last minute but I do think you know if we are saying you know we're looking to hire two attorneys right now
we have job job um postings for two attorneys and I so I think it's not unreasonable that we would would pay the current attorney a little bit more and even I mean you know I I so I would be
in favor of this resolution thank you okay um Madam clerk can you do a roll call vote please I'm sorry mayor I didn't hear a movement motion we can't do number okay so we could do number seven is there a motion for number seven I make the
motion um to adopt the resolution authorizing the township to award a Professional Services contract for conflict and general litigation attorney to clear jacobe Alfia second second second I think we've had discussion
Madam clerk Deputy Mayor Anderson yes councelor Birmingham yes councelor damato councelor lochman yes councelor Toler yes but we have to change December 17 2025 on the resolution duly noted thank
you thank you yes councelor Williams sorry yes mayor Baskerville yes moving on to uh did we we at I guess number eight resolution authorizing Township did we do that yet oh we did that okay what about the Ordinance do we need to I
think we need to we need to move on number 10 that's what that was what the request we can do that here oh we're going to vote on number 10 tonight okay um movement please and second on number 10 resolution number 10
okay um so I move to pass um the resolution amending professional service agreement of interim Township attorney Joseph A Garcia second second okay um we've had full discussion Matt clerk roll call
Deputy Mayor Anderson yes councelor Birmingham yes councelor damato yes counc lman yes councelor Toler yes councilor Williams yes mayor Baskerville yes thank you very much Madam clerk okay um manager would you
please Mr Mayor number nine ordinance uh 25-2 which is the stormore ordinance I know we had some uh recommendations made by Mr Harrison so I just want to know the process by which you want those handled
so we can go to a committee so we can get this introduced um soon so how do you how do you want to work this councilor lman um so I'm not quite sure if this has to go to a subcommittee u look I because if
he's going to make changes you just want it brought back to the yeah all okay yeah all right we doing the storm order um did he did he make the changes already he made a he he did a a memo which is not specific so we're trying to
figure out what changes we talk about this in the planning board would you like me to make the changes and resubmit it is that the best you're more knowledgeable about planning board stuff than I am we're not taking any action on this No not tonight introduced in the future just for the record I'll look at
what Mr Harrison gave us I'll make the Chang incorporate those changes as needed and we'll bring it back on the 25th right yes thank you great thank you number 11 please right did we do number
10 okay number 11 is a resolution to auth authorize an execution of a subordination of mortgage agreement uh this is someone who have received a u uh a down payment loan from us they're looking to refinance their first
mortgage and we need to I think they owe us uh $2,400 total 20 2,300 but they're almost at the 10-year right uh limit where before but they just can't they the uh their the bank their ref mortgage
company refinancing needs for them the other mortgages to be put first so so I have a question for you though I'm sorry may I yes um councelor is on the first page of the uh subordination of mortgage agreement the
um third paragraph beginning whereas it says first lender is the mortgage e under mortgage dated March 5th 2028 that can't be the right date so I I don't know if ITA didn't send the revised version because I did I did run councilor Williams pointed out some of these changes that we did that we did
run I'll I'll get a corrected version on for the uh I'll make sure ITA has a corrected version for the 25th okay and just did you write this what's that did you write this mortgage agreement I didn't I did not write the mortgage agreement now okay I mean the first paragraph
on paragraph two page two really needs to put in a little bit more plain English so that people know what's going on it's I mean I do this for a living and found it very OB obuse yeah okay thank you what okay that's
manager number 12 May number 12 is a resolution authorizing a fair and open Cooperative purchasing agreement contract with Advanced Enterprise recycling Inc pursuant to the ess6 county utilties Authority uh for type 13 waste disposal for the year
2025 that is a Cooperative purchasing program that the is County ILS authorities run runs and we are um we are uh asking that uh we award a contract to them for uh an amount not to exceed
$175 ,000 just curious what do we pay last year do we know I can find that out for you I don't know and the on 75 not to exceed amount is based on this memo dated November 19th from the essence County Utilities
Authority the the the Tipping that the Tipping fees were there the the amount itself was calculated by DCS okay cuz I'm just curious how many tons you know based on how many tons per year how did we get at 175 okay I'll find that up for
you thank you okay which the I where are we we're up to number 13 my apologies number 13 is also y um
clear more clear and this is4 2024 so this is just to increase the amount for 2024 to finish uh to raise it from 60 to 65 I do also believe Council that we will uh um be having some
resolutions coming up from some other law firms winding up last year's billing so anticipate have some unpaid bills that I inherited that uh that need to be dealt with all right I because that was my question I just I'm trying to understand why we're paying a bill that
says to exceed and it's exceeding well we're we're asking to increase than not to exceed I mean do you want do you want the honest answer because you're not to exceeds are unrealistically low I mean if you look at what you what you spent the last two to three years on legal and then you look at what you're putting in
these resolutions it's it's it's less than half it's a fraction so that's something we should be changing to make sure we don't go through these discussions endlessly we should shop around and find out if if everybody has that same opin well we do come back on the not increase
not to exceeds on a regular basis on this stuff when it and realistically if you're going to if your experience has been on a certain type of litigation or certain assignment we spend aund we average $100,000 a year for the last three or four years why are we starting
at $25,000 when you know it's going to be it's going to cost you a certain amount of money no my question well thank you for that but um so really my question question is is this legal to do this to pay it even though it says not to exceed that's my question yes it is it happens the other question is you
said we're going to have some bills that from 20 oh it's 2024 that we need to pay in this year my understanding of Statute is I guess you can let us know for certain if that's legal I'm just because where I work we don't do that so I'm
just trying to understand how it it applies here in municipal government that we can pay bills I've never worked in a place where it didn't happen all the time pay it first you're not getting your December bill until until Jan January the following year anyway so that at a minimum you're paying the December bill in the follow in the following year well can you provide us
with a report of these invoices that we're you said we're getting ready to get some more bills or you said it certainly can so we know to look for what we can expect how much it's going to cost right well it's all charged to last year's budget but it's yeah that's what I'm that's the part I don't
understand last year's budget was just that we're in a new budget we're getting bills uh from from attorneys construction projects people do work until December 31st you're not going to get the bill on December 31st so we get them as they come in and I think even
mik explained the same thing is that bills come in we keep those most of the account open well into this year because things get charged back so so you had some transition in December so it's possible Council didn't get to you Mr
attorney can we just uh in a few short words uh uh talk about the the legal issue of like exceeding and do not to exceed so if a payment if a contract if a resolution is made that is a do not to
exceed and then the line Authority in the in the administration says we need to get do something more or the bill came in and it was more as long as you amend the resolution it's that's that's the legal thing it's you you have to amend the
resolution and on that amend resolution you need to have a certification of funds available to amend the resolution but what I'm saying is that at what when you have a do not to exceed and you exceed it before you amend the resolution what is the legal status of
that I mean it happens all I can tell you with certainty that it happens all the time contrary to the astute legal scholars in the audience no no no but saying that it happens all the time doesn't mean that it's not illegal because illegal things happen all the time good point I'm sure I've done we
could certainly Prov we could certainly provide you with legal guidance on that okay and so this would be a time that I think it would be good to get legal guidance from somebody else you know additionally a different attorney okay with that no I just wanted to say
there's a way to kind of cap this if you will uh Council Birmingham and councelor Williams we met with the purchasing agent there is a process that we can put in place so that we don't exceed so much you know it really starts with the invoices that we get from vendors and
contractors every I has to be dotted every T has to be crossed so that when it's time to pay that bill we have a detailed invoice this would really cut down on a lot of this and I know that some people said they didn't want to have other people do a little more work but they're employees we need to figure
out a way to make sure that we don't always exceed the amount of money and there is a way that we can Implement a process and I'm happy to come to the finance committee and talk about it if you want me to talk about well one of you can be home I'm just saying it's just there's a way to
control this so we have some time to look at this one right before we have to take any action um manager Lola res contract in pursu Mars County cooperative PR Council contract
number Mike sorry Tre trimming and stump grinding services for the year uh 2025 um this is an amount not to exceed $300,000 councelor um Williams yeah Ju Just it's not really about this so we're
going to hire this this firm to take care of the township trees I'm just wondering have you ever seen in in a municipality where you hire this firm and then if any residents come and need tree services instead of going out and
getting their own own they get a discounted price for tree services based upon the having a contract with the town I'm curious I I've not seen that but that that may very well happen I don't I don't know that's I mean you know when
this kind of goes back to what you were talking about before with the sidewalks and stuff like that you know any sort of way that you know because Montclair is a Township of trees and there's stuff that always needs to be attended to all the
time so there was some sort of way that right you know I know informally things I you know my experience informally is once I forget where I was living I think in Westfield they were Paving my street and they rang everybody's Bell and had excess material and said I we'll do your
driveway for this amount of money like five people said sure CU it was a you know it was they were going to lose money on it so they give everybody a break but that's that's the only time I've ever seen that done I don't know anything about the trees I like that I just have a question I know Mr thank you
I know Mr um Ashley isn't here um we don't have a on staff arborous on anymore yes we do so one day a week okay one day a week that's great um I'm just wondering how many trees are we you know
supposed to be taken down it just seems like a lot of money to take down trees and are we going to replace them and if we replace them what's that going to cost I know you don't have the answer this is question we have a very
robust uh tree program here maintaining trees taking out down dead trees and then replanting trees um we grind them to the stump we do all of this so and we have a list and uh and the residents here are very um you know trees are very
important we hear about trees all the time yeah know I I get that I'm just trying to wrap my head around paying this kind of money I mean I know we're not voting on anything this is for discussion so you know my thinking is we might want to figure out a more crafty
way to remove trees even if we chip them down through our own staff and offer them as mulch to Residents I don't know it just feels weird to take trees down at $300,000 but it's not I I see what it says we have
trimming stuffing I'm reading all this and I'm just wondering how Mr Ashley you know arrived at 3 $1,000 for the Year let me just give you this um counselor toer so you know that Oak Tree in the front of my house the guy came up threw his truck up and he clipped off some
hanging branches so when the weather came with $3,000 that's just to cut the branches so when I see this type of thing here I'm like it sounds like a real deal to me all right $10,000 to remember and then look and then if I had to get the sidewalk done on top of that
I'll be like so I just have a question question yes um Council lochman and then councilor Birmingham so none of this is covered under that tree grant that we got good question some of the might no the tree the tree Grant is to plant the
trees and I do I thought it was trimming as well that yes but that's I I don't know if any of that is uh since the the program is just starting I don't know if any of that if there we could charge to the grant we wouldn't be charging it to hear so can we just maybe ask Miss johns
or Dr Johnson sorry I think specific for specific areas but we can triple check with her um unless there's another r that she got in I don't know but the first one was for the fourth ward specific was under served areas
yeah not necessarily the fourth ward do you know if mon CLE trees um bid here and I asked that because the um former mon cair firefighter has a tree business I'd like to try to give them some business too the way this works
mayor is though you know the the um they do it's a Cooperative that we belong to we belong to a whole bunch of cooperatives and then they bid the price and the law allows it so that numerous if you you know we belong to these co-ops all over the state so if they we can shop around and get the best deal so
because they do such volume we get a competitive deal that way and we don't have to go out and bid everything ourselves but I don't know if we'd ever get a price better than what we get with the cooperatives because if you're doing that you know you're going to get 15 or 20 municipalities to participate
you're going to get a good price per action um Council William I I think councelor Birmingham has a I'm sorry I didn't see your hand I apologize councelor Birmingham um now I know there was
discussion at the environmental committee meeting the commission meeting that the feeling was that trees had M tree maintenance had not been optimal in the last several years years and that we were sort of behind in in maintaining
our mature trees so um do you know Mr laa are these like the maintenance of these trees is this directed by the arborist generally like in terms of do does he have a list or we have a list of tree I know there's a list of trees that
are periodically taken down for safety reasons because they're you know um but the arborist and I think there's other things they do and we have uh if there's a storm and branches come down and or you know all those kind of things then DCS is just calling them out to do it
but I can get you more information if Austin was sick he got sick today or else he would um I would have he would have be here and I'm sure he can answer your questions before next okay thank you okay anyone else on this if not let's move on
please okay number 15 is a resolution authorizing Final close out of a contract with Riverview Paving for South Park Street roadway cover improvements um uh and it's the final payment I again I can ask Austin to give you more
information yeah I CU I I have a question um sure the first we're as is where it has uh 488 36.75 based on the backup documentation that he gave with us this was reduced to 40555
55155 in August 2024 um and then we got another bill based on his spreadsheet that says the new bill was submitted on 11 2024 I can't even um it looks like the reduction was
82,8 17 so instead of us owing 682,000 68,276 75 so I'm not sure where if he I will get you step somewhere but um this
resolution if he's going to present it again um first of all we got this is so tiny you would have to really pay attention to it to see the August amount versus the November 2004 amount
um definitely there was a reduction of $882,000 so we should not be paying 68 we should be paying 19,000 if he can just verify that that would be appreciated cuz I know that this construction stuff they use that AIA a building which is standard stuff but you
know without really paying attention to it and we we can't see this this is all this is crazy but um I think that amount that we the final payment should be $1 19,5 7775 I will get that manager Lola will
you please um request that we get the revised version of this that is larger so that we can read the numbers very hard to read very hard I even put if anybody needs any help looking at it you can see what I'm seeing let me know I'll
point it out to you on the spreadsheet youor my glasses I put these things on and I still can't see it okay thank you I'm sorry moving moving on please okay number 16 is a resolution rewarding a contract to authorize the purchase of one Western Star 47x truck and related
equipment through the Cooperative purchas through the tips cooperation Cooperative purchasing agreement it's a hooklift spreader plow and related equipment for $284,999 y'all know I got a question councelor Toller thank you
um we just want some snow equipment and a spreader or a salt spreader or something is that correct mhm so what would this vehicle do again again Mr Mr Austin isn't here if you can just clarify that sure um cuz what I'm reading it says basically without this
savings it would cost the $70,000 savings it would cost us uh 354 some change I just I don't I'm I'm just trying to understand why we need to pay this kind of money for this type of
vehicle cuz that's what they cost no no I I hear what you're saying but we just replacing it's replacing a a a a piece of equipment that's over 30 years old DCS 99 so if you look at the2 over 30 years
old yeah this is a um if in the memo it explains the agent the most recent one that they list on here is a 2020 vehicle and that could have been the one that we just very confused this is why I asked for a detailed report on the fleet of vehicles and equipment that we have the most
recent one that we have well while we're talking about this I'd just like to shout out the um services in terms of plowing and the um ice removal I think our Township has been doing an amazing job staying in front of the um ice and
plowing the streets so shout out to DCS and you know I guess I don't know if you all Street looking like mine but um no I'm in the um in in Canterbury Park a dead end and they know how to cut those curbs really good
who who takes care of Bay Street the station like the salting and the I think we do we have an agreement with Transit does New Jersey Transit do it I think I think we we have
a mayor if I may we have a we have a contractor councelor Williams Angels landscaping and they take care of the deck I'll speak to you out it offline but um yeah couple people almost slipped
in yeah got you okay moving along please 17 that was that was 16 17 we are number resolution authorizing the renewal of the fair and open Township elevator maintenance contract it was an initial 2-year
contract with two separate one years one-ear options we would like to um exercise our first option to renew um in an amount not to exceed uh $90,000 question Council toer just
curious because this is from 2021 do we need to rebid this no the contract allows for the contract was for two years with two additional one-year options so this uh allows us to exercise the option for the last
year I just uh Carney is not spelled right there's no e Carney okay my I didn't do it but okay now we're up to 18 number
18 mayor I believe that was your resolution number 18 yes the resolution is to appoint uh three individuals to the Civil Rights Commission Civil Rights Commission has lots and lots and lots of vacant seats these individuals have um
requested that they be appointed they are very much looking at it I I ask that we have their information but I don't see it um maybe we weren't able to get that whatever happened with Madame mayor
may I I just wanted to state that um uh Mr poro is on eltac as it is so he doesn't wish to be on the Civil Rights Commission at this moment moment so the other two should be fine if we can just make that adjustment to remove that name
off of it okay cuz I just got these requests like two weeks ago but that's good information because I've been holding back and I don't know maybe we should have this discussion as a group when someone's already on one committee or commission um um generally there was
a feel before that we would try to see if there were other people that we could get involved but depending on where people want to go but I'm I'm fine with that recommendation Council totally May mayor just I wanted to just um confirm because I I I I think um we have been
getting some um the vi or uh information from the clerk um I think the last time I saw was maybe about a month ago um and so I I do actually have a couple of other names that I'd like to recommend for the next time but have we gotten any
more volunteer interest forums in the last month maybe a handful less than three since the last memo thank you yeah I did I can look at the I can give you this information tomorrow if you need it but it's less than three since the last time I I appreciate you sending them to
us thank you so can I make a motion to uh second oops to go home I'll second hit too I'm sorry okay you got a second we're going to vote okay
we're going to vote on putting these individuals on um Civil Rights Commission can we wait until the next time so we can appoint a bunch of people at well since these are already here I would just because um there's work to be done and um I think they'd be very
helpful I know they seem very very anxious to get started so I I don't see the downside of it give them some good news right Madam Clerk Deputy Mayor Anderson yes councilor Birmingham yes
councelor demato yes councelor lochman yes councelor Toller yes councelor Williams yes mayor Baskerville yes thank you next please oh yes councelor toer I'm sorry Madame may I know we said we were going to come back to number two two before we get to 21 and 22 that was
given to us tonight yes um another question I just curious what we spent in 2024 on HVAC maintenance um and the bottom of this agreement where after it says now therefore be it resolved it says that we
are entering into a 2-year thing and I think we should make that a onee with the changes that are going to be coming in the very near future um I understand HVAC is something we're going to have to
have um but I just think we need to take a look at that 2-year and make it a oneye and I also would be interested to see what the costs were for 2024 um because this is asking for 150,000 not to
exceed I'm just curious what we spent last year yeah what the bid says within twoe bid if it was they priced it on two years thank you me too that year years one and two and three so they bid it based
on we did Woodman did we do number 20 yet we may we may we may have an issue on that councilor Toler because I think the way it was bid so it was a multi-year bid and they priced it based on years one and two and then a
different cost for year three on the option mhm so I'll have to find out if that would have to be rebid I don't know okay thank you for that okay number 20 okay I'm sorry what yes councelor lochman okay 20 is um okay the uh 5G
ordinance I had spoken with Mr Garcia what we need to do is just touch base with the Essex County to make sure that they that they have understand the ordinance cuz some of these 5G installations will be on County Roads called over yesterday yeah okay okay so
you're waiting to he back I will update you as soon as I hear back from uh Mr St John thank you for all the work that you did with that thank you too okay we're up to 21 now okay I'm going to ask Mr Prima to come back up he's a busy man
toate and he can address 21 22 and 23 which version so 21 is the replacement of our compressor truck it is a 24y old vehicle um it is on borrow time we were planning to put in the capital budget to replace
it next year but because it's continually broken down and every time it breaks down we have to customize parts for it because there are not crossover parts available for this vehicle anymore so it being down for months at a time it causes us more time to do the job because we have to you
know jockey equipment back and forth this vehicle carries all our pumps are sore uh excuse me saws fittings Shoring for the guys for S you know make sure to ensure that the hole is secure that they get into that the walls aren't falling on them having that all on one vehicle
reduces the time and impact of the utility to the public and the time we are on the road sound will you be needing another vehicle in the near future uh so yes as the email said um we will be replacing two more Vehicles
after this um we also have a 2008 backo the floor had to be reinforced recently because the floor is rotting out on that that since we are looking to do this truck this year we plan to put in the capital budget for next year to replace that backo um and then after that in
2026 we will be looking to replace a 2004 dump truck and then once we do that our Fleet will pretty much be resolved and we won't have to do any more upgrades for a while so over the next three years you're talking about almost a million in vehicles give or take
pretty close to that yes but the again these vehicles are essential dump trucks uh we have two dump trucks to haul material two and from the job site again having two reduces the amount of time because we can jockey them and continue to work while one is going to dump or be loaded to bring material back for us um
we have a the 2008 backo is a dedicated Jackhammer Montclair has very thick roads a lot of the roads were concreted pre I believe it was post World War II as a job incentive so there's not only about a foot and half to 2 ft of asphalt but then then you have to get another foot and half to 2 ft of concrete with
rebar having our guys hand Jackhammer that would cause time and energy and these guys wouldn't even be able to perform the work by the time they were done breaking the road up so that eases the burden on them to be able to perform the repairs on the utilities themselves and our guys would be using this vehicle we don't have to go out oh no our guy
our guys used our guys used the this vehicle yes um we do you know there are times we do call on contractors but that is for extreme situations that is out of our scope of practice you mean this brand new truck can't do it oh it's going to do it's going to do 95 to 99% of the work thank you Council lochman I
was just wondering do we ever uh share equipment with neighboring towns or borrow their equipment no we use them all the time and our our backos and trucks are running probably 3 to 5 days a week we are using our
equipment okay manager uh would you like take it number 22 is also a resolution awarding the fair and open contract to Pim Corporation for the sanitary swore Rehabilitation project uh actually
that's nope that's a typo on this one this was supposed to be for the sore line this supposed to go to spinello companies for 973 819 as we discussed before this was the project that went out to bid last July and came back at $2.5 million we got it to come back this
time with the proper bid spec at $900 73,8 19 so we essentially by you know rebidding this project we save the township about a half a million dollar that's the one um councilor deato so that the low bid last time was 2 and
a half million yes and the high bid was we only had two bids the low bid was 2 and A5 million the high bid was 4 A5 million and that was because it was the the there was a new engineer and they they didn't understand the bid spec we wanted okay and so by us putting it back with Suburban save us
about half $15 million and these are paid out of the utility budget yes these are paid out of the utility sore capital budget yes and between these two so we have 3 miles of roughly of relining
which is a lot cleaning caming lining and reaming yes okay and then and then how many chimneys how many uh we are doing I believe it's around 12 manhole assemblies we're going to manhole chimneys we're going to do
these are all on the high water table section so around Edgemont Pond all around that is going to be redone and then down in the anol brook section they we have high water table there a lot of ey and ey there so we're going to do those manholes also and they're being cemented or grouted not replaced no they're they're what they're doing is
they're just taking essentially a grout spray and they're spraying the inside of the chimneys all the a lot of the Chimneys in Mont Clair are brick yeah so they are very coarse and allow a lot of water in so these again these areas have high water tables we eliminate the ini I by doing this but they're not just being lined that spray is like structural yes
okay it's reinforcing also right you have a list of the areas that you're talking about um yes I I can get that for you yeah I'm just curious thank you no problem anyone else thank you executive session thank you
very much uh okay at this time um I'd like to make a motion that we um adjourn to well I need to have um some guidance I don't have what we're going in executive session for but it says executive
session I don't need I okay I just need five minutes of your time regarding labor negotiations and then we'll be I'll be done yes executive session okay um manager Leo I need um specifically
please what it is that we're going to go into the executive session can appropriately announce labor negotiations mayor is that sufficient or do I need to talk about what type of labors between who and who PBA negotiations PBA labor negoti
okay at this time I'm I'd like to make a motion that we adjourn to um the executive session for PBA labor negotiations I'd like to ask please that any members of the public or any members who are not directly necessary in order
for us to have this discussion to adjourn from the chambers um we anticipate that this will take how long manager Lola five minutes five minutes um and and famous last
words after that we'll return to the the chambers possibly longer is there a second please all in favor I any oppos thank you
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thank you um at this point in time we I'd like to make a motion for us to exit the executive session meeting all in favor I any opposed no okay welcome back um thank you for those of you who are still
watching at home and now we have a couple of um items that we're going to discuss so I'm going to ask councilor lochman uh yes so I'm just trying to move things along with respect to our organization and
what how we're acting as a council so I had asked everybody to um to pick what uh the first second and third choices I guess for to act as a liaison to the various uh boards commissions and I heard from most people
I didn't hear from you Dr Ben Baskerville or are you yeah so if if you don't mind not something you have to do right now but if you could go over that and select your for second and third choice I picked I don't know what but I know what they are find it yeah yeah um
and I guess at some point we I I feel like there are certain committees and commissions that are listed as active when they're not really and I'm wondering if we want to take a look at uh those that I've listed and see if we do we want an Arts advisory commission
for example I don't know they have they've been kind of semide defunct um I don't I the Monclair Community intervention Alliance I understand now what that is and that's okay and the citizens uh senior citizens advisory commission is listed there but that's
definitely defunct and I would have issues about the landlord tenant advisory committee I feel like they've kind of uh in my view overstepped their mission by getting a little bit too involved rather than just providing information to people who come to them
they get actively involved in talking to the um I guess pretty much tenants about what their how to move forward with actions with landlords and I I read the um resolution that appointed them or and I I really think that they're
overstepping their mission and I think that um now that we have tomb the tenants organization of Monclair maybe that's the best private group to handle landlord tenant issues rather than having a town representative doing it I
I personally think that they should be decommissioned but that's just my view anyone else want to um yeah I'd like to respond yes councelor toer um the Arts advisory committee um I would like to see that kind of meshed into the
Arts and maybe maybe Cultural Arts committee um we have a diverse Community we have many holidays and celebrations that um residents like to celebrate if we can find a way to make that more of a cultural arts advisory committee that
would be helpful um to like redefine what they do absolutely um that would be my thinking um I do have some things saved because I know that there are a couple of townships that actually run these type of uh committees and I'm happy to share
it with the um Council to see if this is something we think we want to bring to the table um in regards to the landlord tenant advisory committee um while some people may not be 100% familiar with what they do um we do not need to decommission
this committee I serve as the liaison for this uh this committee was started way back for a reason um if you are interested in attending a meeting you're more than welcome to come to see how it operates um I'm not sure where you're
getting your information from about basically I've been copied on emails from deoy well that's how the commission the committee operates and they're not a commission they are a committee they do advise landlords and or tenants on their rights and they work from the New Jersey handbook um so again I'm going to invite
you to the March 4th meeting so you can have a seat at the table to get a better understanding um because to not know and then say you want to decommission something because you don't know is a little unfair um we're losing tenants on a weekly basis that's something you wouldn't know because you're not talking
to them when I say losing tenants we're having they're getting cases on a weekly basis of landlords trying to do a b and c x y and z particularly in the fourth board tenants don't know their rights but my view is that our our our the town
should and tomb is not a Township advisory committee um tomb can't do the same things that landlord uh tenant advisory committee can do um we've tried to work with Tom in the past and ask them to come in but for whatever
reason they wish to remain their own entity nonprofit if you will I don't even know if they're nonprofit at this point but um they often have to send residents to landlord tenant advisory I think that as a council we should read
the ordinance that set up the landlord tenant commission for example just to give you an exle yeah go ahead and understand what their brief is MHM and then see if in our opinion like my
opinion is that they're overstepping and they could get the town in trouble with representing like what you know they don't always that so could we develop like an ad hoc committee or something and letol disc we can do that but why you
say that you haven't attended one landlord tenant meeting so I don't know where you're getting your feelings from reading emails is one thing actually coming to a meeting to see how it operates is something very different you might I think the beauty of this group is that we're all coming from different
perspectives and each one of us are entitled to have our own feelings on a matter um councelor lochman you know expressed herself you expressed and you invited her there now I'm very limited let me just share with you and you you
help me here so I know um it used to be a place where If a landlord or a tenant were having some type of dispute and they they weren't ready to go get legal um Assistance or go into the courts you would invite the landlord in you'd
invite the tenant in and it was more like civil mediation and it would often save people money now that is totally different from what my personal opinion is what tomb does the um you know they advise people
on rent control and they do a lot of wonderful things and and help people out but I don't know them to do this now um I appreciate the fact that you took the time to read what's in their papers I I don't recall what it said in there and if it says something different than you
know what what I recall has been going on forever we should look at what it says and then we have a choice of either making what's in writing match what's you know or or do something so that we're all yeah okay that sounds good to
me okay um Deputy Mayor no I just the only thing I wanted to add is I I looked at the I think the resolution that established the responsibilities and the role of the ltac um was last amended in 2022 or 2021 and um I think you know I mean i'
I've also asked like what I know that they have an intake system and that's great they have a good process I just would like to know a little bit more because i' I've been included on some of these emails and um and I'm not saying anything bad about the people who are serving on the committee I just think
that it would be worth us as a council just looking at not just that committee but all the Committees um cuz my understanding is that they were actually not they're explicitly not supposed to do mediation that's actually in the resolution so a lot of it like L times
have changed there's a lot of um availability for our website to give information to tenants if they needed to know and that's apparently what the landlord tenant commission is supposed to be doing is providing people sources to help them not going in there and mediating between the land in the T
they're not actually mediating you just said they mediating no I I use that word and I'm not if you really really really wanted to know how landlord worked you would come to a meeting CU working on emails is not going to get it you have to actually see how it operates for
yourself and also um I had asked for data about how many cases what they what the outcome was and that's never been forthcoming so I don't know if they keep minutes or what they do strikes oh minutes are kept applications are kept there a whole Google Drive photos are kept yeah um and if it's something out
of their realm of work if you will it's they you know they get referred to down in nor to deal with legal services and obtain an attorney they don't offer any legal advice I like the idea right of of us reviewing the um committees and actually
seeing what yeah we can review them all absolutely but to decommission because we don't know just sounds a little anyone else want to speak on that matter or move on to something else quickly let's see is it I will I can I can almost do that for
you before we leave um it's it's about 11:30 so um can we adjourn or does somebody have something that that really needs to be done right now um May Madam clerk I mean oops sorry about
that um Deputy Mayor um just I wanted to just provide a very quick update to the public about where we are with the um with the permanent Town manager search um um I just wanted to share that we've been really busy as a council um in the
last few weeks um interviewing and um we are inching very close to um um making an offer to um the one of the finalists so um we'll we'll be um we'll be sharing
a little bit more in the next few weeks I think um the other and then just to move on with that um as I was discussing with the mayor um I think um we need to determine how we're going to our approach
to um reviewing candidates for the permanent Township attorney position and um I think we really do need to decide on the process for that and how we're going to um move that forward um it's you know I think Mr Garcia was appointed
for 90 days starting um December 30th so um just wanted to make everybody just remind everybody that um this is something that we have to do well what's your what's your proposal are we going to decide tonight right because we had one um ad hoc Committee of three people
and then people everybody said well this is big everybody has to do this together so how does that everybody doing this together thing work so um I think mayor you had suggested a subcommittee um I
think we um my suggestion is that we have I believe um there is a general consensus and please correct me if I'm wrong that we want to go um go ahead and look for an in-house permanent um
Municipal attorney so my suggestion is that we all um uh provide our a list of of individuals among the the resumés that we've gotten for inhouse and um decide
who we want to bring in for an interview if we want to um have a subcommittee to perform the interviews um we could do it that way um and and give everybody else a chance to you know speak to the candidates um themselves um or we can
just I don't know I mean how about if we do top three everybody put in top three to come in I mean do we have to have all of the people that applied to do that no no that's not I think my sorry to be um confusing my my recommendation is that
we each provide a list of the people that we like yeah it could be top three um that we want to bring in for an interview um and and start that way um so councilor Birmingham sorry thanks um so just thinking about how
much um how difficult it was to get us all together to be interviewing for the manager position how much time it's been taking um in terms of just I think it's what 8 week night eight out of 10 of the last week nights we've been in meetings I feel like
um I'm okay with I know we broached the subcommittee I would be okay with that to for people to do a first pass of like as long as I don't have to be on it um no but in all seriousness like I
do think that might be an efficient way if there were three people but I don't if there more than three people if it were two and two I I don't know but I I do feel like all seven of us is a difficult
um thing to harness very difficult on this end um Council Williams and councelor toer and then on this no just want to thank everybody that came out to the no I'm sorry but
we're happy that you want to think of it 11 11 11:30 um if we're just trying to figure out really quickly how we proceed with something that is a matter of urgency and that's the um no permanent position
I I would endorse a strategy where it was an ad hoc of three I I I think we could be a little bit more Nimble if we did it that way I I don't I have trust in and all of you um I
didto uh birmingh Council of Birmingham uh anyone but me but I mean ultimately if you if you only have two and you need a third I'll I'll raise my hand it's not a issue I know if you guys aren't recalling I sent out something a couple of months ago and I asked for volunteers
and the volunteers were councelor Toller Deputy Mayor Shen Anderson and Baskerville sounds good and and that was a committee and then it shifted because everybody said well it's this big everybody has to hone in I'm I'm I'm
still very interested I don't know about the rest of the ad hoc teing what so the three Ju Just so we're talking about the same thing that three would Whittle down the list to three or or we can just do what
you suggested is you know take take have a spreadsheet have a spreadsheet um you know rank them and then those will be the three whoever gets the top that's those will be the three that we bring in well no no I mean councelor Williams
that my my idea and I think this is consistent with what councilor biringham was suggesting was um that everyone that all seven of us as mayor Baskerville suggested um give their top three candidates among the resumés that we
currently have and those top three would be everybody's choices for bringing somebody in for them into for an interview and then having this ad hoc sub committee actually do the interviews that's my suggestion so is that I'm open
to whatever is going to get this the process done um was that that that what you were thinking yes similar something I mean yeah we're we're not trying to schedule four or five interviews um and and then
maybe I don't know if if there's a candidate before they're actually hired or we're asked to vote on them that we all actually do get to meet them and if we will it down to 3 or two even then maybe it'll be much easier to schedule
something I'm councelor deato yeah um I don't see any need to whittle it down it's a score sheet I mean I think everybody probably at the end I I was said this long time ago I just thought the no drama way was that everybody just goes here's my choice and then you see where they match up
and then there's some process you mean it's a score sheet help me understand because there's no score sheet right right now well a score sheet would okay ranking just ranking them so but I mean like what we don't want is necessarily that like if somebody has a strong first
preference that they're not you know that they're sort of wow we ruled them out I don't think we want to do that and the second thing is well there's three things there's that I just think everybody should just advocate for whatever they like second thing is I'm
not there's no consensus that we need to have an in-house person I'm not solding that yet at all so um uh I mean if we had one and they were good that would be cool too I'm just
saying I haven't ruled out the idea of using a firm and the third thing is that if we do interviews um I think a way to do it is to just do them on zoom and record them and then we can other people can watch the recording so to see and so we're at the
same point that that we've been with this topic of how we're going to hire attorney um for you know about a month or longer now and and that's pretty much um nowhere and so maybe we need to have this
discussion offline I mean we we're just we're going through saying the same things and then not I think it's very important if we could at least decide if the majority of the individuals feel as though we're moving the direction of a um full-time inhouse and then others is
needed and that's a good starting point and then at least we know what list we're going to go to when we start doing whatever that process is so can we try to do that um that would be an accomplishments Okay who wants in house
who wants fir come on coun at Birmingham I just feel that um there's advantages to both but I do think like if you're going to have one attorney you need to make sure obviously we need to
make sure that they're very very skilled I think one of the advantages of a firm is that the this the lawyer has Partners or or has people that they can um ask
questions you know can sidebar around you know spe because law is very specialized these days and so when they have so for me I would I don't necessarily fall one way or the other I do agree that we want someone who would
be here for much of the time um but I don't necessarily I I want the person who seems the most capable and so I don't necessarily fall one way or another without what's that I'll say thank you r
clarify the reasons why a firm is good I mean they both have pluses and minuses but the things about the firm that I like is that I do believe not through I'm not throwing shade on anybody or it's not about
anything it's just that if you're working for a firm you're less likely to be drawn into the politics of the council so an in-house attorney who's in the building more of the time does become they say the sort of eighth
member of the council and that's if you're somebody who's not always in the building and or is less likely to be you know with that person I feel like I'm more likely to be treated equally as a customer and the second thing is you can
be more strict about wanting to have reporting of what that attorney is doing because for a firm there's a a uh custom I mean just the way they do business is that that this here's the bill and you can see in increments of an
hour or 15 minutes what you know they should be taking notes here's what I did here's who I talk to this is what's going on this is what my work product is and at the end of the month you can say oh well this is what they were up to where is with an in-house attorney and again it could be great you kind of
never really know what's going on and B if you know you do have to worry about them getting sucked into the drama and the interpersonal stuff Council lochman um I was just wondering so if
you haven't uh like the the attorney sensibly reports to the council right but doesn't he really report to the manager no so he's in the office all day and he's not reporting to the manager
huh no I mean they have a working relationship you know that's yeah but yeah not not that okay all right just was curious about that and we write the parameters for you know how we want that relationship to
be I guess I've always you know I've done both in my career have just outside Council that you work with all the time and then have inous attorneys and uh in reality it just depends on the person so I'm I'm kind of on the fence about it
quite honestly I could see it both ways I think councelor damato makes a good argument about the person might be a little bit more neutral um if he was from a firm but um I don't know I you know can't
say deputy mayor I've already given um what was your opinion councel the um in house councilor Williams in-house councelor Toller um I could go either way I'm more partial to in-house uh I do understand
counselor deato is thinking uh because Board of Ed uses firms and we see the bills that come in so it's a nice tracking system um but I just think maybe with the amount of work someone would have to do I don't know if we'd be saving any money um by using a firm
versus an in-house person so when I say work we have to do the many cases that we we have here in the township um so I would I would probably lean more towards in-house all right so you got your four votes for in house so let's what's next
then pick something what she she said in house I'm sorry I thought you did did you say in house it's getting late I um I I didn't um actually give a comment first of all I just like to reply to the part about
um somebody being pulled more into whatever's going on cuz I think that's a matter of integrity and I think that Integrity can come from anyone and I don't think whether you're with a firm or whether you're you know not with a firm makes you any more or less likely
to you know be a person of good character and good integrity and focused on what your job is and I think it's up to us to lay out what our expectations are so if we expect that someone's going to come in and work X number of hours or
be available by beeper or whatever you know so that we need them then I think that we just have to be very clear about what our expectations are and um yeah so I I I definitely would prefer to have someone inhouse just because I like the
fact of having someone here to help and you don't have to call them and they somewhere else and they're only doing X number of hours today or you know what whatever I I would like to know that somebody's going to be available and in a very similar way that I want to know about an engineer and that's going to be
another discussion because we haven't resolved that yet either but I'm for the um in-house okay so now um are we going to try to figure out what that looks like moving
forward um Deputy Mayor okay no I was just saying I thought a while back we had already established the committee we had and I thought it was going to be um myself you uh Deputy Mayor but then the deputy mayor did you not say you would
let councelor lofman do I mean because you because of your time constraints or what have you we can maybe we can talk off on okay all right so then I'd like to make a motion that we adjourn the meeting um all in favor I I any
opposed have a good evening e