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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=Qu0GDm-VhVU

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Okay, good evening everyone and welcome to the July 16th meeting of the Montlair Historic Preservation uh commission. Uh this is a regularly scheduled meeting of the HPC. Notice has been given in the Montlair Times, the Star Ledger, and the

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Herald News. A notice has also been posted in on the bulletin board in city hall. We are being broadcast live on channel 34, the Monontlair Public Television channel. We're also being livereamed on Monontlair's own YouTube channel.

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Roll call, please. >> Chair Bennett, >> present. >> Vice Chair Graham >> here. >> Mr. Rooney is excused. Mr. Rhyet >> here. >> Mr. Sweeney >> here. >> Mr. Giuliano is excused. Miss Kain Levy, Mr. Mixer, Miss Floyd,

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uh, Miss Bower, and Mr. Smolen are all excused. Thank you. And then we have one change to the agenda to announce tonight. Application number 2026-14 for the property at 612 Baldwin Street and applicant MDZ Management LLC has

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been postponed and carried to August 20th, 2026 at 7:30 p.m. without further need for public notice. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh now we will address the minutes of June 18th, 2026. Are there

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any amendment or or additions to the uh to the uh minutes corrections? I have a very minor one on page two line 36. It says uh the design review commit committee met with the owner of the Belleview Theater on June 3rd to discuss

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a possible carport addition. So just strike to add to the Yeah. Anyone else? Okay. So I know Mr. Graham has to recuse

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himself from uh voting. We have a motion to approve the minutes as amended. >> I move to approve. >> John, do you mind putting your mic? >> I move to approve as amended. >> Great. >> I'll second then. >> Okay. All in favor? I >> I

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>> Thank you. Uh, next is a resolution. Uh, Zenab had concerning application 2026-13, a total demolition of a structure on

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Godfrey Road. Zanab had sent out a sent us a resolution in our packet and then Mr. Sweeney has added some addition some corrections to it and additions. So, has everyone here had a a opportunity to review?

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>> Uh, yes. I reviewed it. I don't have a problem with with uh Jerry's comments. >> Okay. Nor do I. Okay. So, >> so I move to approve as amended. >> Okay. And again, Mr. uh Mr. Graham, >> I have to abstain. Yes.

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>> Miss is abstaining. And I second all in favor. >> I >> Okay, >> I'm all in favor. >> Thank you. Um committee reports. So, the demolition review has met a couple of times since our last meeting. We should have a draft

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by next month. We're moving along. Um, I think pretty nicely so far. [laughter] So, uh, we'll have it by next month and then everybody can review it. So, again, thanks Jerry. Tip of the hat to you for working on it originally. Um, we we're

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still continuing to work on it. Um yes so at minor applications uh July 16th no sorry oh today there was a meeting of I'm sorry today July 16th application

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2026-20 can you update us on that? Yeah. Um, I only got the email comments from you and John, so I will follow back up with Nick and make sure that he doesn't have anything additional. We're waiting on a little bit of a revision on the window

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signage. So, I would say it's still pending. >> Okay, that was a good call. I didn't I didn't realize that. >> Seemed like a lot. >> It did. After I looked at it really closely, I was just so happy with the board. So, >> uh, on June 25th, the minor applications

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uh, met. It was uh application 2026-9 integrated healthc care of Montlair 295 Bloomfield Avenue and that was approved of uh with re with revisions. Was there anything else I or that's it. That's it.

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Okay, good. Um, okay. So, on the grants front, we're really pleased to announce that we've received the CLG grant for next for this year, uh, to be completed by for next year. It's $30,000 to do a

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historic survey, structure survey of 248 parcels in the south end of Montlair, which encompasses the third and the fourth ward. So, we'll be working on that this coming year. And we'll also be working on uh to um continue our work on

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the preservation plan for the uh the police building. And SAB, do you want to give us an update on on that? >> Yeah, so we're working on the RFP. We're um getting it reviewed by the New Jersey Historic Trust and then I will share it with the commissioners. And then an RFP

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has to be uh when do you anticipate that that will actually go out and that we'll be working with consultants? Is will that be like September? >> Probably by the time we get a consultant on board. >> Right. Okay. Just to give us some kind of a time frame.

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>> Um community outreach. Um I had a meeting with the first ward council person and the counselor at large, Bill Harris, and the president of the of Monontlair State University, Dr. Dr. Jonathan Capel, there's been um quite a

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outcry about the condition of the bond house. So, we met with him last week and next week the executive director of New Jersey Historic Trust will be meeting with us as well. So I welcome anybody on

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the commission if they want to come um on at 11 o'clock uh to uh to come and view the house do a walkthrough of the house and Mr. Saponus will give the college or give the university his

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suggestions as to do major [snorts] grant uh funding. Um, who knows? It might be a preservation plan that what which which we went for for the uh police building publicity. The publicity commission committee met. Um, we had a

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virtual meeting. Thank you for setting that up. Um we the only thing that really came out of that was um uh a promise that the our township Matthew Armoron will be in

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touch with Montlair local the patch and the other outlets. We did not see anything in the news outlets about the preservation awards. Uh but however, Monontlair Patch uh did write a brief article about our meeting last month

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which included um comments from the the uh the audience on the um rewrite the revision of the master plan. So if you haven't seen that, I have a copy of it. I could share it with you as well. And um going forward, I'm sorry that Zena is

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not here, but she had offered to write an Instagram account. And my question to you, Zenob, is can we have a member of the public as as a member of a comm of a subcommittee because we have somebody, it has to be just the commissioners.

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Okay. Because we have somebody that has offered to put together Instagram. Just maybe just walk us through what that Instagram. We could do a um informational. >> I I can check with the planning director. >> Would you? Would you? Okay. Because I

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don't do Instagram. I don't know if anyone else does. >> Are they offering to do it for free? >> Yeah. >> Pass that along. So now >> Yeah, >> I will. >> Um and so I think um with the committee uh you know, we certainly have enough content um and we would really like to

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get this out, the good work that we're doing to the to the public. I'll follow up with Matt on the the login. >> Okay, that would be great. So, um let's see. Next. Next is public comment. Um

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so, public comment would be anything that the public would like to comment on as uh concerning the uh the commission, our work at the commission. Uh this is not to be confused with master plan comment which will come at the end of

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the meeting. So is anybody that would like to come up to the podium and share their thoughts? No. Okay. So closing that portion public comment. Old business there is none. But we do have new business.

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And do we have any what? But we don't have anything written application or is it the application from last time? >> Yeah, it's the same signage application for >> Okay. It's the same signage >> meeting under old business. My apologies.

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>> Okay. And uh Okay. So I don't have >> I have missed that meeting. I'm assuming I'm not able to vote. I can comment but I can't vote. Is that is that correct? >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. So do you have any extra copies of maybe

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the the visual with you or >> I believe the applicant has brought some copies. Review. Yeah. >> Okay. So now, Zenob, could you uh is this I just want to get make it clear. Is this a revision to application

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2026-5? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, this is a revision to application 2026-5. It is a sign on the new restaurant Clementina at 627 Valley Road. So, would

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you please come to the mic and uh I guess I'll swear you in. Please. Thank you. >> Are you the only one testifying tonight or Okay, great. >> No problem. >> Okay. Thank you.

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Okay. So, we first of all, could you raise your right hand? And uh uh do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth in regards to this application? >> Yes. >> And may we have your name and address, please? And >> Abdulani. >> Wait a minute. In your relationship to

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the project. I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> I'm here on behalf of Excellent Printing, 333 Hazel Street, Clifton, New Jersey. >> Okay. And what is your name? >> Fousy. F A W Z I. >> Okay. >> Last name Abdul Ghani. AB D E L G A N I.

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>> And what's your relationship? >> Yeah. >> I'm on behalf of Excellent Printing. I'm one of the owners. >> You're one of the owners? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> They prepared the sign. >> One of the owners of the restaurant. Excellent Printing. of Excellent Printing. The the sign company. >> The sign company. So they prepared the

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initial proposal that we saw. >> Okay. >> Okay. In the previous proposal um there was just the letters Clementina that were on the sign ban. Um and then a

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uh a brass plaque appeared under on one of the peers in between to the left of the entry door. So that's considered a sign. So that should be that should be part of that should be part of the application.

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Um if you look at the very last uh page of the uh handout that you have uh it is a light it is a light fixture and it provides light and the idea behind it is to clarify which which doors for the

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restaurant. Uh if you look back at the first page of uh the handout, you'll see the the front of the building um and you will see two doors to that building. That building has two tenants. The first one is Clementina, which is the restaurant, and their door is on the right. The other tenant is Montana, uh

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which is the uh the apartment building, which is on the second and third floor. The left door that you see in that front image takes you to a stairwell. Uh, so there's nothing else behind that door except a stairwell that takes you up to

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the second floor. Um, and hence why we moved over the sign to be in the middle of the door of the restaurant with the light as well to show that this is the door for the restaurant. We don't want to confuse customers that come in and try to get into the apartment building. It could be very confusing. They might

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even walk up hope thinking that, you know, that is the entrance to the restaurant. Um, so that is kind of the explanation that we have for the location of the sign. >> So what you've just described is this now part of application 2026-5

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in addition to that application? >> No. >> Okay. >> So it's a revision to that application. So, they're now presenting the alternate sign location plus the little C light plaque and I believe

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something above the apartment door. >> Correct. That will be a separate application. There, like I said, there are two tenants in this building and there will be at some point another application for a new sign uh for the Montana business, which is the >> Okay, that's what I was getting. >> I just want to clarify. So this is a new

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uh um this is a new application tonight. >> No. >> So >> no >> no this is not a new application. Correct. >> So I is still from carryover from last week uh last meeting. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Understood. Thank you. >> Okay. So

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your point that um so just speak a little bit. You you want to put another sign on the sign ban over the door. Correct. >> Correct. But that will be a separate application. That will be a separate permit application as well. Um what we're trying to do here is finalize this

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permanent application with this sign. I I understand that the this board had a problem with the location of the sign. I think there's a general understanding why this happened. If um I I if if it helps to amend the application and submit a new

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one to show the new location of the sign, then we can do that. You know, pretty easy to do. >> That's not the issue. >> No, we'll figure out the process. >> Okay. >> Are you finished with your presentation? >> Yeah, I believe so. >> Question then we're at a point where we

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can start asking you questions. Okay. Okay. Um, I went by that I went by there and there are address signs above the two doors which are quite visible from the street. Are those going to stay? They're black metal letters.

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>> Uh, >> I believe we're required to have that for CO purposes >> for CO for the CO >> certificate. Are they are those going to stay? >> Uh, I believe so. Yes. >> Okay. Uh because in the previous application you had a big number above

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in the sign ban for 620 for which one? The one to the left 627. And now I don't see it anymore. So that's why I'm asking those two addresses will you're not propo proposing any additional signage?

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>> No, they are this >> for the address. No, I don't see any addresses. >> Right. >> Correct. >> Okay. Um, you know, I guess you made the comment, we know how we got here. Um, h, you

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know, I think I know how we got here, but I'm not sure it lines up with how you think we got here. We had a presentation of this all I don't know how many months ago. >> Four months, five month, I don't know. >> Several. Yeah. >> So, yeah. And we came to a resolution

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for it and we passed that and and then it from what I can tell was just never considered or ignored. So, without So, that's how I think we got here. How do you think we got here? Are you talking about the original

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resolution >> to the the location of the Clementina sign? >> I I I don't know what that looked like versus now. Um, you know, it we're just the sign company that came according to the the

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requirement of the the building owner. >> Who made who made the original proposal? >> Who was here making the presentation? Was it the sign company or something? >> Correct. Yes. But he's not here now. when I'm >> He's not here now. Okay. >> So, he's the one.

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>> So, who um uh instructed the location of the sign placement? >> We submitted a permit application for the sign that was approved. I believe on that permit application, the sign showed that it was in the middle >> and the only change from the original uh

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permit application that we have versus what is actually there is moving over the sign, >> right? which is you know though that's our purview is uh maintaining the aesthetic of the town. So the sign placement does uh matter. So that's why

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you know we wanted to discuss this again with you all because we made that um part of the resolution was the placement of the sign. So, was the um who then ultimately if it wasn't the permitting

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office approving the change in location um who directed the change? >> The client. I mean, it made more sense and that was kind of my presentation why we should move it over into over to the over the the door of the restaurant rather than the middle of the building.

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>> So, after the permit was issued, then the determination was made to move it. Yeah. And like I said, >> so that's that's a that is an issue with us with the not following the process and and um you know not uh listening not honoring the recommendations that we

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made in the u in our resolution. >> Right. So you know that to my that goes back to my comment of if it if it requires a new permit and a new submission we can do that. Sure. Certainly. Um, >> what's our opinion on the current location?

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>> Well, do you does anyone else have questions for >> Yeah, I go ahead. >> So, just a visually, it looks like the uh word the sign Clement Clementina >> was moved uh just slightly to the right,

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maybe about a a foot to the right. Is that all that was moved >> about? Yes. don't know the exact >> dimension, butch. >> Yeah, I'm looking over here compared to this one. >> You know, it's it's hard for me to tell the the distance, but the M, you can see

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where the M is here versus where the M is here. >> That's the only that's the only thing I can detect that's it moved about a foot >> on the revision. >> On the revision. >> Okay.

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>> Okay. Was there any other um um written statement of the revision submitted? Uh >> no, but when we went to final board approval, I think this is how we ended up here. Uh is that uh the zoning office

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had an issue with it. They sent us to the board and here we are. >> Okay. because I the minutes suggest that the you were to submit a revised signage plan which I most of us view as something that's both visual and

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written. You certainly have a visual and um I just ask you if there's anything else. They all seem to have the same date. It's 220. Well, I'm not sure whether this has a date of 225. Like I said, we can submit a whole

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permit application again to zoning or in front of this board if that's what what it takes. We can do that. >> Well, we come before this board, HPC, because it's in you understand it's in a local historic district and that's why you came before us because we we're the ones that determine the lighting and the

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and the and the signage and um and that's why it came originally. So the issue is really, you know, why the placement of Clementina changed. Um, I just brought up that that that, you know, there I see now that you're

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considering that C not to be a sign, but lighting, which is fair. Um, but we really can't [clears throat] we can't make a determination on on the new sign that you say is going to be on

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the sign ban. Is this the >> that's again that's going to be a separate application with a separate permit. >> I know but you're but you're you're ask but what you're saying in this new application is that the letters have changed to the right because you want to put something more on the left. >> Correct.

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>> So we have to see the whole picture. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, it was very clear in the med meeting minutes from last time we met. The very last three sentences is following discussion, the commission directed the applicant to revise the signage plan

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>> to include all proposed signage on the building. Recons reconsider. We're not telling you to do it. We said reconsider the overall placement and proportions of signage and submit the whole thing so we can see it all together. Okay,

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that's all we asked. >> Okay, I I guess that that wasn't understood on our part correctly and we'll we'll resubmit that. Do we resubmit it to this board or do we go back to the zoning office? >> Okay,

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>> just send me an email. Um >> I wasn't have your mic, >> your microphone. you can send me an email and it's up to you if you want to come back before the full commission or if you would like the subcommittee to review it virtually. So what we could do with the subcommittee is that we can

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review it virtually. So you don't have to wait for you know our next meeting which is August 20th. We can do it um we have a four-person uh threeperson subcommittee. >> So the benefit of coming to the full commission is you get more discussion

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and you can have a facetoface conversation >> more quickly. >> I understand. Um, does the commission have an issue with the sign itself or is it just the placement that needs to be updated on

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the plan? I mean, because the the sign itself follows the >> I'd like to see your proposal for everything. >> I don't necessarily have a problem with where you've put it now. >> But I don't know. I don't know what else is going on. And that's what we asked for so we could see the whole thing.

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Sure. >> So, I'm not I Yeah, that's fair. >> I think that's fair. >> I think it's fair to come. Yeah. So, just get in touch with SNAB and uh we can make it uh expedite it uh even

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within the week. >> Got it. Okay. >> But you have to be clear as to what you're actually proposing. >> I will I I'll submit a whole another application like we did in the first one to this board, right? uh with all the details of the sign and the size and all the

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>> and the sign I know you want to make it a different application but I'll see it you know >> and once that goes through this board and it's approved and when we go to install the sign do we have to share that approval or I imagine we have to send that approval to zoning as well correct

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>> right so the building department will look at the resolution they'll confirm that you're meeting the conditions if there are any and then you'll get the permits to install it because we would have to generate a new resolution. >> Yeah. So he said he's going to submit a new application. So we'll generate a new

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resolution. >> So that would be 2026-20 A or B or or do we use this as a revision? What do we do? >> I mean we can talk about that. >> Okay. I just want process-wise I just want to make sure that we're clear what

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we're doing. Okay. >> Okay. >> Do you have any other questions for us? Um, let me ask the client. >> Mr. Pavvel, you need to be um sworn in. >> Well, you could come up to the >> mic.

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>> Could you just raise your hand and identify yourself and your um >> I'm Michael PL. I'm the owner of the building. >> Um, >> and do you swear to tell the truth about this? >> I will. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. Uh I just wanted to explain to you where that very minute

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to the gentleman point uh change in bringing the sign a little maybe less than a foot over to the to the side came from. When I put up the building I I realized that there were two separate

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addresses in there. this 227A 227B they go under the tax uh tax uh bill in such a way. So when I developed the apartment complex in there I realized that basically we have to have some kind

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of a sign on that side of the of the So the signman came in there and he says this is where we're going to have to put this. So I went across the street. I looked at it and it was really no more than maybe a foot over to the left which

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would have probably compromised the the balance of the two signs that I had in mind to put the first one which is in here and the second one as I complete the apartment complex. So [clears throat] I said to him, so it's me that I said,

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"Okay, just go probably less than a foot over to the right." So I don't know personally that this is really should this should make such a big big difference. Now I granted for the second sign on the left side, we're going to have to come in and apply. But what am I

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going to show you that this sign is a is a foot or less than a foot over to the to the right. I don't know if we did that that kind of a calculation in the whole process in the beginning. >> We'll we'll take that all into consideration when we see the entire signage plan. Um the the issue we're

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going to have now is you know balancing what's there versus what we had expected to see which was what we had approved >> and now we have to >> uh view it okay >> holistically right cuz there's going to be more signage on the on uh over the

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new door and and you know there is that new light that was placed there. So um it it does change the aesthetic and it does change deviate from what we had approved and had expected to see. Uh but we will certainly take what you're saying into consideration uh when we do

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the review of the signage plan. >> Outmost respect for for the commission. I I put several buildings up there. The one across the street perhaps is way before you you came in the in the committee in here. Uh which is the the third turtle and a wolf. I I built that

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and I did you see the you see the architecture that I put in there. Uh, and then I put another one in the back of of the movie theater, the the 50 upper Montlair, the glass and aluminum. So, I have a lot of consideration for what for what the committee is doing in

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here and just because there was a deviation of about less than a foot going to the site because I wanted to allow enough. >> Respectfully, it does seem like a little bit more than a foot. It does it does appear to be more than a foot. I don't know. Okay. But but we I I do respect your concern, sir, and we will consider

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it when we review the entire thing holistically. >> And I'd just like to add something. We respect and really appreciate what you've done and your other buildings. But when we were looking at this sign with um because it's in a local historic district and it has that um you know

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that that that that shop, that old 19th century shop and 19th century commercial fronts. The signage was and I just took a a a screenshot of Saunders Hardware. It was centered over the entire facade,

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not just over the door. So that's what we told your your representative and that's what we approved because we approved it with. But now that we hear the explanation and when we see it at the next meeting, I'm sure we'll come to

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an agreement. But the very first beginning, this was meant to be a three-story building with apartments upstairs and a restaurant on the right hand side. From the very very first beginning, there was no there's no question about it. So, I don't know what

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the presentation was, but we'll definitely abide by what your requirements are. >> Okay. We appreciate that. Just come back to us as soon as you can and we'll look at it. Absolutely. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. >> [panting]

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>> Uh okay everyone, our next uh our last uh uh it is uh the master plan uh re-evaluation report and um I think I

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was remiss first of all this is our third this is the third opportunity for the public to make comments. But I think it was I was remiss in not explaining to the public in the audience and the public at home what the purpose of the

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historic preservation commission is. It was added um it was approved by ordinance in 1994 and it the provision I just want to read this and I know it's a few things but I want the public I want everyone to understand why we're here because I

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think there's some confusion in people's minds as to what we actually are responsible for. So the first thing is to safeguard the heritage of Montlair by preserving resources within the township which reflect elements of its cultural, social, economic and architectural

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history. Second, encourage the continued use of historic and noteworthy buildings and to facilitate their appropriate reuse. Third, to maintain and develop an appropriate and harmonious setting for the historic and architecturally significant building structures, sites,

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and districts within the township. Then to stabilize and improve property values within the township. To foster civic pride in the history and architecture of the township. To encourage proper maintenance of and reinvestment in buildings and structures within the

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township. To regulate appropriate alteration of historic sites as well as new construction within or near historic districts to ensure compatibility with the existing built environment and the master plan of the township. to discourage the unnecessary demolition or

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other destruction of historic resources. To further the public's knowledge of the history and development of the township, as well as its appreciation of the township's historic sites. To enhance the visual and aesthetic character, diversity, continuity, and interest in

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the township and its neighborhoods. To encourage beautifification, and private investment in the township. to promote the economic welfare of the township through the preservation of its historic sites and landscapes. And when we um

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make uh have discussion and make decisions on the uh like we just heard the signage of a building. It's all those things are always within a local historic district. We do not have the

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authority to tell people what to do to the exterior of their homes. Um, we do have the authority to stop a demolition if it's in a certain historic district

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neighborhood or if there is a um uh a report that's filed by the state. So, I just wanted everybody to be aware of that is where we sit up here. the other members the uh other members that are here not here tonight and we have we go

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uh guidelines the secretary of interior standards we follow those along as a as a general rule. We also have designed historic we have historic design guidelines that speak to the um uh buildings within the historic districts.

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And what we're working on to today and for the past three uh meetings is a revision not a rewrite a revision of the historic preservation element of the township master plan which is available online and anyone can uh look that look

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at it. So having said that, would any of my fellow commissioners like to add anything to that before we listen? No. >> Okay. So then I invite um anyone here that would like to come up to speak, come to the mic you and identify yourselves and um please give your

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address. We'll take it. >> Hello. >> Good evening. How are you? >> Good. Name is Michelle Mloud and I'm at 81 Claremont Avenue. Um, I've seen about this on online. That's why I came because I'm kind of curious about, you

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know, what is actually what you guys do because I'm second generation here and what I'm seeing right now. I'm like, I just can't get over it. What's happening in Montlair as far as like the new buildings, everything looking shiny and new, not really keeping the historic piece of it. So that's why it was

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interesting what you just said that it's primarily what you're talking about the his keeping the historic neighborhoods as doesn't apply to the entire township is what I'm understanding. And what we're [laughter] great, you're a good straight man. Uh

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because what we're trying to do is extend the neighborhoods and the historic districts in Montlair. But we get a lot of push back from neighborhoods, from people. And but that's what we're trying to do. But our venue, we can only deal with what we're

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allowed to, which is >> historic districts or and so on. So historic buildings, right? Um the demolition of buildings. >> Yeah. >> Um we love support. >> Yeah. Is like I said because like when I walk out when I do my walks and I look

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at the skyline I'm like it doesn't even look the same anymore. >> Yeah. >> All these new buildings and sometime we drive by some place I'm like what was there? Now there's nothing there. Like now it's torn down for whatever else is going up there. >> Right. Right. Well we spend a lot of time looking at neighborhoods. Yes.

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>> The fabric of neighborhoods and how they feel. And we try to hold on to that, you know, and we look at proposals in that regard. Someone wants to slap something in the middle of this, you know, threestory building

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house neighborhood and they want to put up a 10-story building there, we have an opinion about how that affects the neighborhood >> cuz like even this one here, I remember it as the hardware store and I remember driving I'm like, how did that even happen? >> Right. >> Right. And then if I'm not mistaken,

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isn't there one um um near Milburn Delhi now? There's a conversation about putting up a an apartment building there if I'm not mistaken. I don't know how many units. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. I don't recall the number of units either, but yes, I think it's six, but >> yeah. And as you get to understand how

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all the different land use boards work in Monontlair, you'll see that those particular projects usually come from the planning board. I'm the leazison of the planning board. So >> and in those projects we only have

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advisory. We can't we have no we we can only advise. >> Okay. So you have so your beef say is with the planning board and so [laughter] on. >> Go after him is what you're saying right now >> because like is you know the storage

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unit just went up across the tracks. I'm like are we serious? cuz when you walk out of CVS now you just see this big I think it's black or blue whatever it is sitting in the back. Now >> there was an um you can actually find that application online. I was part of that application that was I think three

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or three maybe four years ago now. >> Um I not getting into the specifics but it was one of the better uses for that area given the traffic and you know it reduces the amount of flow in and out of there and you have a train track right there. But um it seems that you know given your interest in in in um these

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projects um I would highly encourage you to do two things. Um one there are some upcoming meetings about the master plan revision um review. It's not a revision but it's a master plan review. >> That's where you can really get ahead of these issues. Um a lot of the

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applications that come before us or come before the planning board um they follow the requirements that they have to based on the policy document that is the um master plan for the town and also the zoning requirements. So that that

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building that you're talking about in um uh by the Milbourne Deli uh there was some controversy about whether it was in the right zone or not. But the way you get ahead of these issues is by making sure the zoning is what you think it should be prior to an application going

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in. So this is really the time uh now that we're uh reviewing the master plan >> um to get your input in there and say, "Hey, I think uh maybe this zone allows too much um uh hype in this uh in this area." So that's where we can start like

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now is when we can start uh pushing back and >> like the issue that they had with the whole Lawana thing that went on for the longest. >> Yeah. The Lacawana Plaza. I think this board and this commission and the planning board that I was sitting on also um we were not in favor of that

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plan but uh it was ultimately not our perview of the town council. So we only had limited authority to make uh we only were able to make recommendations there as well. So what ultimately is that going space going to be? Is it going to continue what it's being used for now? It seemed like more community based or

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are they still talking about building? >> I don't know exactly. We're waiting to see a site plan. We haven't seen a site. >> I have the same question. >> Yeah, we have the same question. There's been no sight plan. >> 10 years. What 15 years? It's been a minute. No, it's been a while. >> But it just got approved that um so what

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got approved? Uh what what is it that got approved? It's it wasn't a site plan, but it was a >> financial agreement. >> Financial agreement, but also a redevelopment plan, right? was the redevelopment plan was approved. I love that. >> Yeah, it was that was re uh approved in 20 it was adopted in 2024. So, two years

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ago. >> But um what is your name again? Does not >> Nishelle with an N. >> N I C H E L L E >> Mloud. >> Mloud. >> Okay. So, what we we uh I would invite first of all, I want to make it clear that uh when Mike talks about the master

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plan, it's for the the that's the uh planning board. >> Yes. It's not the HPC master plan. So, you need to go to the planning board and voice that exact concern when you to the planning board. And I don't know when public >> Well, they're doing a road show right now.

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>> I can give you the details. We have the second ward meeting July 22nd, right? >> 6:30 to 8:30. They're all Wednesday 6:30 to 8:30. That's at the Edgemont Park House. Then the fourth ward meeting will be at the Montlair Fire headquarters on

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One Pine Street on July 29th. And then >> July 29th, that's the fourth ward. >> That's the fourth word meeting. >> I already have that in my calendar. >> Okay. Yeah. And then August 5th is the first ward meeting and that will be at the Belleview Branch Library. >> Okay. I just >> But you're welcome to come to any of

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them. You don't have to go to whichever uh your ward is. >> Okay. Yeah. Because I did see that posted just recently, too. >> Right. Yeah. That poster has >> And you might be interested to hear that we just received a CLG, what we call a CG grant. Um I think you came in late. It's a grant from the state. And that

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grant will do will be used for a historic uh survey structure survey and it's the it's 248 houses in the third and fourth ward and th those will then um be

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surveyed. Each house will have an individual sheet, fact sheet presented or on it and then that will be submitted to the state and then if any of those buildings come up for demolition then we get a chance to sit on. And >> it's interesting you bring that up because I've thought of that with our

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house cuz I know it's likeund and who knows how old and I've thought about that when it's time to sell. You know, I'd hate for somebody to take it down just to put us something new. Is there any way of blocking that? Well, you can send Zenob your address and see whether it's in the um in the uh

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>> there's probably there's probably legal ways you could do that with the deed or something that travels with the >> There are legal ways. It usually impacts on the value and price that you get. >> But there are ways you can have a deed restriction. >> A deed restriction,

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>> right? Okay. >> It's not currently historic or potential 81. >> 81. It's not. No, I know it's not. Yeah. Um what would you would you what was the acronym you just use? A I mean Cwell CL >> CLG certified local government. We've

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been very fortunate. We've we've actually received one two three four five six seven grants um since 2015. Some of them have been for uh writing such as this. We received a grant to write the master plan. Um and then we've

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done intensive survey studies for the south well coming up the south end the estate section Oakra and Willer Street Monontlair uh commuter district so it goes we do we you know we don't focus on one area we spread out

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>> right okay all right >> but we encourage you to come um we also do um uh research her house history in with in collaboration with the Monontlair Public Library I started that at one time and just fell off cuz some other things came. I still want to do

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that. >> Yeah, that'll be coming up in the fall. >> That's always interesting. >> And we're also on television. All All our meetings are on television. So, if you can't be here, >> do it. Right. Right. >> You can watch what's going on, watch what's being talked about, and that's a good way to get involved.

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>> And our lastformational session which was uh conducted by Steven Small, that's also on the website. >> Okay. And the meetings for all the land use boards, uh, planning board, zoning board, and us, they're all also on the township website. >> On town. >> Yeah. They'll let you know when they're coming. >> Township website and YouTube. So, if you

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just search Montclair government, our channel comes up and every meeting that's live streamed is there. >> Okay, cool. All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I wanted to offer one final comment. Public input is really essential and the more people you can bring in with you to

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support a position, the more it's likely to be heard and acted on. >> It's getting the people that's that's the challenge, right? People will talk about it but won't do nothing about it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Cool. All right. Thank you. >> Good work. Thank you. Yes, sir.

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>> Invite anyone else to come up, please. So just identify yourself please and and give us your address or >> My name is Christopher Blur. I live at 70 Norwood Avenue up in Montlair.

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>> BL B L O R >> 70. >> Okay. Mr. Blur. >> Hello. Good evening. >> Good evening. Hi. Uh, it's my first time coming to one of these meetings and I'm doing a bit of a exploratory mission uh

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because uh my wife and I are considering um building an ADU in our backyard >> and uh so we believe the process will come in front of this commission. >> Mhm. So, I'm not sure if this is the forum, but I just kind of um

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I had a a few questions about the commission's work and and just sort of sort of things. Any advice? >> We'll try to answer as best we can. >> Thank you. So, um first of all to introduce myself. So, I've lived in Monontlair for four years. I've lived in this country for 10 years. Uh my wife

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and I moved to Monontlair for the same reason lots of people moved here in the last four years. their kids are around the age of four. And uh we moved here because of uh lots of reasons. The architecture was a big part of it, the

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beautiful homes and the beautiful towns uh town centers. Um we love this town and we want to grow old here. We found ourselves financially stretched after buying here and uh upon finding

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out about the ADU regulations that have changed recently, we thought it made sense since we're on a corner property and there would be a separate driveway. Obviously, we'll submit a full proposal, but I wondered if you had any uh advice

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or um recommendations. >> Uh sure. Um, you know, in terms of us, you know, you heard us talk about the neighborhood. So, first it would be the impact of this ADU where it's located.

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>> You say you're on a corner lot. >> Mhm. >> Corner of what? Norman and >> uh Norwood and Norman. So, uh kind of on the corner of Sunset Park. >> Okay. >> Just down from Presbyterian Church. >> Okay. Okay. Um,

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you'll have certain zoning restrictions about placement, you know, as you get into it. You can't put it in the front yard. You're limited with the sideyard. probably it's going to go in the back or in your case you have a corner so it gets a little bit more you know but I

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think uh just couple comments if it's designed to fit you know fit in uh look like um it defers and belongs with the house that's there

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um you know unless there's something glaringly wrong with it I you know sitting on this board wouldn't have any problem because I think the ADU program in Montlair is, you know, is great and I

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think it's um I think a lot of people will be doing it. So, uh and are doing it, you know, we recently did an ADU on Belleview. Um, so it's um it comes to we we approved an ADU not

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too long ago which I thought was rather large. Okay. So there are requirements for the size of the the minimum size and then I don't know if there's a maximum size maybe I believe it can't be bigger than 50% of the h. So the scale the

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scale of it is also something to consider and how it fits in with the existing house and how big it needs to be. >> Um so there you go. That was some >> and the program has been fairly successful. Correct. Uh

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>> I would say we've had about maybe 15 or so approved and some of them have been built. So, Richard's usually getting a a few applications and then we've approved a few through variance as well.

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>> And we just uh provided uh advisory comments for an ADU on Norman and um was it Fernwood? It's either Fernwood or Inwood on the >> northwest corner.

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>> That's uh Yeah, that would be like exactly a block or two down. >> It's very close to you. Yeah, it's it's like a block away. I don't think they've started yet, but we gave it >> It was Inwood, right? >> I think it was >> I think it was Inwood. Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. >> You could you could get copies of those

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plans or see them at the building department or the planning board if you wanted to see what's being proposed. >> Okay. >> That'll help you a little bit understand what was approved, I guess. >> Yeah. One thing that stood out to me earlier

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on in the discussion about Clementina and um Montana apartments was that we were discussing one sign and then potential submission of a future proposal became part of the discussion

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and I wonder whether you would take into consideration ADU appro uh applications on an individual basis or on a neighborhood basis. if there are others nearby for example. >> Oh, I think it would have to be an

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individual because each house as you know in that neighborhood has a different you know architectural style and different the land is different. So, you know, in terms of a presentation for whatever you're proposing, I think

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it's and we don't require it too often is if we could see the actual houses on the street >> and how this new little addition fits into the fabric of the neighborhood. So if you and if you can come up with an argument or persuade us that this is the

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greatest thing in the world that you're building >> um that kind of information helps it helps you understand what you're building too. >> Yeah. >> Uh helps keep it in scale with the neighborhood. Helps you know. >> Yeah. >> Um

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>> okay. And uh one thing that um someone warned us is that uh building an ADU is an easy way to lose friends with your neighbors. Uh and we're aware that this is the forum where any sort of disagreements about plans might be discussed with neighbors. Uh Gerald, one

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comment you made was uh public input is essential and um I wonder how you as a historic preservation commission, how do you sort of keep the balance between some people wanting change and

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some pe you know they're [snorts] perhaps being in neighbors that have an aversion to to change? Well, not all a some ADUs can be built as of right. They don't require variances. Okay?

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>> So, it isn't necessarily the case that uh you're applying for a variance and it gets broadcast through the neighborhood and your neighbors come to a presentation and that if it's as of right. If you need some sort of variance, like you're too close to the

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lot line >> or you want to do or you want to do something, then you got to then you go through a process there. >> But if you're proposing an ADU and if you meet all the requirements and you're not in a historic district,

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>> the neighbors can argue, but you still have the right to build it. >> It's your it's your world, you know. Okay. >> Invite them over for a glass of wine. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. Um, and the historic districts are just really the town center of street. I know you've got maps

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online. I'll take a look. >> There's four. Yeah, there are four commercial >> individually surveyed buildings as well. >> And ADUs are not inconsistent with the historic preservation, >> right? >> As you said, we've ruled on several. >> Okay. Okay. >> And we've given advice uh

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recommendations. >> Uhhuh. ADUs are encouraged though >> that all that all those comments and advice would be available >> in the planning department. I guess >> the planning department >> planning department. >> Oh to see what has been done >> previous ones. Yeah.

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>> Yes, you could. Yes, you could look at our minutes if you're so inclined. You can read those. >> All right. This has been very helpful. Thanks a lot. Good luck. Appreciate it. >> Wish you luck and thanks for the good work you're doing in Mono's beautiful town. Thank you. and come uh uh the Belleview Theater, the um not Belleview

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Theater, Belleview Library, July, that's going to be the first ward uh re-examination for the first ward for the uh master plan for circulation and planning. >> Ward meeting is August 5th at the Bel >> Wednesday. You should come to that. Put that on your

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>> Yeah, that's like our road. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Uh August 5th. I'll put it in there >> at at 6:00 or 7. >> 6:30. >> 6:30. Okay. >> All right. Thank you so much. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thanks. >> All right. Well, I think that concludes our um

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our uh public comment. I did want to read somebody wanted to come tonight uh and was not able to and um she sent me a very positive comment.

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Oh, well, just take my word for it. was very positive [laughter] and um she uh was very appreciative of the work we do. So, it's always nice to hear to hear that. And again, for the public um we the HPC has no authority

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whatsoever to do anything uh to advise uh with what you do in the interior of your building. So, just to get that straight, I think a lot of people think that we um look at the entire house, interior and exterior, and and we don't.

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It's only the exterior, and we we advise we give advice for the planning and the zoning board. So, that's my little spiel. Anybody else want to finish up on this because this is the last public comment. All right. Uh Zanab, have you received anything else from the

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>> All right. I'm sorry. I had it was a really good quote, too, but I can't find it. >> Read it next time. >> Yeah, I'll read it next time. All right. Well, I think that's all on our agenda. This is uh for tonight. So, if I may have a uh

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>> I move to adjourn. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Okay. Great. Thank you everyone and we'll see you next month in August, which will be on August 20th.