okay thank you okay good evening everyone and welcome to the uh Montlair historic preservation meeting of March 20th 2025 this is a regular meeting of the Montlair Historic Preservation Commission notice has been given in
accordance with the open public meetings act by posting a copy of the notice on the first floor of the municipal building and by sending a copy to the Monontlair Times the Star Ledger and the Herald News we are being broadcast live on channel 34 Monontlair TV and remotely
streamed on YouTube the roll call please yes i will just announce a change to the agenda first um the application number 2024-12 for 16 Pleasant Avenue with
applicant Pleasant Way Holdings LLC has been postponed to May 15 2025 without the need for further public notice and the role uh chair Bennett present vice chair Graham is not present Mr
rhynit here Mr rooney here Mr sweeney here Mr giuliano here Mr pierre is not present Mr mixer is not present and Miss Floyd is not present and Mr tler here
thank you and uh Mr taz Tesler is Tisler is is is uh sitting in for Mr smallen our HPC consultant and note that uh Miss uh Bower our attorney is not present tonight yes Miss Bower is not so can we
go back just I just would like to know if there's any do we know if how how many times a application can be postponed is it indefinite did you find that out or um No I didn't find that out but Okay that's fine fair enough for the
Historic Preservation Commission it No because it's a hearing i'll I'll double check that's fine i would have asked Miss Bower tonight uh all right next is February the approval of minutes from February 20th 2025 are there any addendum or
changes and I know that Mr rhyets and Mr sweeney we're not here oh abstain we have the same issue yeah we have the same issue because there's only three of us here so can we We'll have to adopt these next month okay um
but I'd like to say great job uh Senate i have no comments this time yeah quite thorough um next up is resolution uh application
2024-34 for 144 Union Street which is a total demolition of a detached garage uh the demolition was approved we have a resolution however we have the same issue in that we have uh three we have
two commissioners here tonight that can't vote on it because they weren't here last last month so the um suggestion is is that we adopt this resolution tonight and then we ratify it at our next meeting which will be on
April 19th 17th april 17th so do we have to take a vote to adopt um yes I think so yes okay so the two So just a clarifying question
if we adopt it tonight and then the next meeting will people have opportunity to make changes to it or not i thought that would Yeah the two people that the people right the answer is yes if they this is
our attorney but that's so what is say that again Jerry I'll say yes if they find some material deficiency you know I would say we're adopting it based on the substance of the resolution based on our participate all of us participated in
the at least one of the meetings in which it had and it was substantively uh at least I thought it was substantially substantially agreed to at the previous meeting but finished at this last and unchanged in the discussion it was not okay so with the
two abstensions here tonight uh what can you call the role to uh vote yes to adopt you have abstain you don't have an Well you can abstain adopt i wasn't going to abstain i was going to
vote for Oh I'm sorry i thought you said you Oh you're going to Okay I was going to vote in favor i read the resolution uh it is substantially consistent but more expansive we discussed All right so then you get to vote so this is a vote on the adoption of the resolution for
application 2024-34 for 144 Union Street uh Chair Bennett yes vice Chair Graham is not present mr ryitz mr rooney yes mr sweeney yes mr giuliano yes
and that's about it okay great thank you thank you so you'll um maybe you should send a message to the the members that aren't here tonight so that uh they know they have a chance to weigh in at the next meeting okay
thank you okay on to committee reports minor applications uh on February 27th the the minor applications committee met application 2025-5 491 Bloomfield Avenue was
approved as submitted uh the meeting for for March 13th was cancelled as we had no applications education and outreach May is preservation month open uh we're going to open up the applications for
the awards which uh will be on the website so if you could put those on put that on the website just to update the the year obviously we have three types of awards brick and mortar preservation and preservation service so anyone out
there in the public that would like to nominate please check the website the township website and fill out the application it's really very um easy to do we have dates for our next research in your home history we're going to meet
in collaboration with the Monontlair History Center and also the Monontlair Public Library on Saturday May 17th and Wednesday May 21st from 10 to 12 and I know there's a number of us that have have uh joined it's it's a great program
again anybody in the audience and at home if you'd like to research your your home or another structure within the township uh the information will be on the website as soon as we get the flyer and it will be very easy to show you how
to register for this it will be held at the Montlair Public Library um it's a great resource because uh the the library has deeds the Monontlair History Center has a number of maps and it's just an a way to see what's available
within the you know locally that you can actually see what went on what what how your house matured let's say over the years um I was invited on March 8th to Maplewood for a meeting with the Maplewood Milbour and Monontlair HPC's
it was an opportunity to discuss historic districts um I think what's really interesting in light of the development that's going on all around the state that um there's much more interest now in historic districtricting
and um this was a you know a collaboration for people on different uh his HPC's to talk about the issues the problems um applications and it was a very um informative meeting so um we
hope to hear more from from them um they may also join us again for one of our collaborative meetings with um which we did with the land boards last month so going on uh in terms of outreach one of the things I came away with from this
this meeting on March 8th uh was an idea to celebrate our semiquentennial um which is quintentennial i looked it up and I wrote it down um 250 year celebration which um I think I've talked
to a couple of council people and there's starting to think of how Monontlair will be able to celebrate it and I thought and this is the first time that I put it out there but especially with people on um the outreach program is that if we could I I believe there
are three houses in town that were here during that time two are Dutch uh colonials you know brownstones and one may be the HO house so if that's the case I thought maybe we could do a not a plaque because that would cost
too much money but maybe some kind of a recognition of these three um and if anybody knows of any and you know any other houses I know Zenab there's a list of properties and the year of construction um that maybe if you would
be so kind to to look through um and see if there's anything else is there a list based on year of construction which we can't we may not be you know able to rely on but it's around that time
but we know the Dutch brownstones are old for all properties in Montclair yeah I have it Graham branded I don't know how he where he found it's probably from the tax yeah we can just download a list of all the parcels from the tax assessor and then sort it by year right uh
constructed and then go from there so just go back and see when the oldest ones are and see how many we have sounds good maybe we could fudge it a little bit yeah 1776 to 1790 we We got a whole year to work on it that's right all right it's a good idea though oh just
something cuz we missed it the last time remember there's a house from each period you know these are the oldest then 200 years ago his built and show if it's his bringing us to present time right even maybe a new house that we
would that would be great identify as Yeah are you on this committee no no you just you are now all right i think that's a great idea all right moving on to grants we have a lot of grant activity and Zenob has been
instrumental in in pulling this all together so the first one is our annual report which is due when uh March 31st but if we don't get it in then we can submit it April 11th with our 2025 grant application
okay and I know you're working on that yes okay okay the 2024 grant application um council discussed the resolution to grant the award to Connelly Hickeyi at the last council meeting March 13th I
believe and there were no questions no comments and they'll be um approving that resolution at the 25th meeting March 25th okay hopefully and then our next um grant application
which is 2025 to 2026 we've identified the subject which is the south end and the um Miller Street uh historic districts and we are working with Zena is investigating what the a brief
history of what the south end um orange road history is just a couple of sentences so we could put that in but Zanab is also working on on that as as well and then the next one is the grant for the um for the idea
of the police station that's the that's the historic trust grant and I was at a meeting with uh Janice and she kindly offered your your your but I must say uh Zanab I've just found out is actually the historic
preservation officer so she's uh she's got a lot on her plate with preservation which is she's learning really really I'm learning a lot a lot thank you for that work so I'll be in touch with you uh this week about that um and then we
had I had a a a call from a member of the public about the deteriorating shed that's on Lorraine Avenue that's the uh train shed on Lorraine and Braymore it's it's it's really falling apart the roof has got holes in it the size has got
holes in it so I asked if she could write to do just to tell them about the condition of it west side of the tracks on the west side of the tracks north it's a really nice old shed so you'll give us an update then at the
next one too all right does anyone else have any I don't think we did any we had any other No okay um public comment i I was somebody No is there any public comment anybody from the public that would like
to get up and speak do you want to speak no oh there will come a time where else Oh okay i'm sorry i just saw the look i just Oh sorry so there's no public comment public comment um uh is closed
old business any old business i don't think we have any old business new business uh new business is the first one on the agenda is the development review committee referral application
291867 Park Street Congregation Chamen uh which is new wall sconces and freestanding pole lights and we're reviewing this because um it's in the it's in one district I think it's the
walnut the walnut uh proposed walnut street district is anyone here to to for this application no okay so then we'll just go ahead and and discuss it amongst ourselves so the uh project description
is the applicant proposes to install 13 new wall sconces mounted to the facade of the building and four freestanding pole signs two freestanding pole signs will be located north of the egress driveway in the landscaped area and two will be added to the rear property line
the 13 wall sconces will be added around the building on each facade the uh application is located in the Walnut Street potential district the property has not been individually uh
surveyed the application is deemed complete and we have uh plans here and we also have our historic consultants report so has anyone everyone been able to look
at at look at this so why don't we start we have we can't question anybody so why don't we start with comments nick I didn't really have any issue with the plan per se i think 5,000K is a really white light for a building
4,000 it's very white yeah like an incandescent bulb is like 2700K 4,000's like you know hospital lighting oh um I don't know if we have any 3500 yeah I'm totally with you yeah I don't think we have any jurisdiction
over that but that's my only comment no no it creates a It's a visual thing yeah it's in a historic district i thought they could just look at maybe a different color temperature yeah as long as it meets all the foot candles that they're trying to get for the sidewalks and the parking
lot look at that so it's a different type of light a different emits a different white light it's a warm light instead of a white so we're recommending 35 for the light 3500K
3500k or less or less or less okay good point i thought the fixtures themselves looked fine fixtures were fine yeah and the placement of them okay thank you Steve the the only thing I'm concerned about is it's it's
a I don't know over it goes past the property line and the placement no not the placement if you look at if you look at the wide spread right
so that throws you know you should always be up in arms and I would be too if they're lighting my house so that's right um reading the so light spread onto neighboring property yeah yeah they need to they need to adjust that and
it's all around it yeah i guess I'd like to understand the logic there's no one to ask questions of you know but Oh go you go ahead first yeah yeah is the if you go up on Palton Avenue
there's a temple up there that they just put in new lighting and you can you could land your plane there it is so bright really so uh I want to make sure that that doesn't happen because this is in the middle of a residential neighborhood i I I don't understand the
logic behind what why are they saying it's for security purposes probably but then I would look at this and go okay we don't need those you know if it's security it's around the outside
it's around the outside so what are they doing yeah there's an entrance over here oh it's right here but there's no light there it's over here there's an existing light but Oh it's there's an existing light overhead so we're saying to re-examine the
placement of the light poles poles yeah and to um eliminate the overage does the township engineer review this at all like for foot candles at the property line yeah they would because
this is a development review committee application so the engineer would review it they haven't gone to the DRC yet but I'm sure they would say a similar Yeah comment but these recommendations would be put together in a memo that the DRC and then the engineer would then look at
yeah okay yeah because there's got to be some limit that they have at the property line that they're allowed to spill over lightning wise okay john um again every parking lot that I've been involved with you you provide enough
lighting at the parking lot for safety purposes right okay and for coming and going and it protects your insurance whatever you know they're not doing that they're they're throwing all this light around the perimeter which
I'd like to hear whether more why you know have they had breakins have they there's vandalism is there what's going on that uh is generating this but again it would be to reexamine the the placement of the placement yeah
sure sure yeah but are we going to be able to look are we looking at this again no I don't think Yeah I know but at least it goes somebody's going to look at it okay um is that your only comment uh yeah the I think the actual uh fixtures are okay
except for the fact that the way they throw they need to be not uh for Mr rooney's statement it's it shouldn't stop at the proper stop it's got to be aimed inwards you know so okay
and the color right Mr sweeney yes yes my uh my overall view is that it just adds illumination to uh highlight the design of the house when the lights shine down so they shouldn't be uh the I'm sorry
the uh the sconce lights shine down so they're not going to be uh obstructive and I think it would provide some security uh it did seem to me they were missing a light here so when I looked at the parking lot normally you have light
over a parking lot it seems to be a big gap between the uh the front back light and the way two lights in the back i you know maybe uh it's for younger people that see better than you but but I I
think they're missing a poll there yeah and um and I I think I I agree with the comments made it'd be desirable to have a color light that isn't harsh but one that just provides enough light for security and also uh illustrates the the
historical character of the building mhm okay so re-examine the placement of the uh the light spread onto the property but also re-examine the ju just the l just the lantern it seemed to be missing one lantern right the light the light
the actual lighting for the parking lot okay and the number of lights i didn't have a problem with the number only because looking at the design looks like a small light and it's like it's
shining straight down so you're not going to have a lot of So there's a gap in the light there's a gap in the in the in the lighting but Jerry th those spreads that's the spread of the light they're not aimed down they're they're spilling into the
neighbor across the property line those are This is the design it's not aimed down it aims it's aimed down it aimed goes out okay i I'm sorry that I misread how uh that's what Steve is saying the light spread is going onto the joining
properties oh okay though that would seem inappropriate i I I interpret it as aiming down as as being it should what it should aim down i would agree with you okay mhm so let's include that as a recommendation it should aim down yeah
yeah i I think we have a thing in in the town rules about I'm sure that's in our night sky right light can be pollution too and and my only comment was that the wall sconces
and and uh Stephen uh Mr smolain brought this up that it they didn't confirm how they were to be attached to the building um so the they need to be attached within the mortar joints okay mr
alexi Alexi uh right i I would agree with the commission i would say dovetailing to that not only how are the sconces attached but where is the conduit right is the conduit being concealed or is it running down the facade much prefer the
former and yes the Kelvin temperature at 4,000 uh if you lower it to 3500 or 3,000 you get closer to the warmer yellow tones as opposed to the more blue steelely white tones the higher you get up okay good so
uh we have five points zab um do do you want to So re-examining the placement of the the freestanding poles uh to make sure that they're lighting the driveway for safety
as opposed to around the perimeter and like spreading light um the lighting should be reconfigured to make sure it's facing down for the sconces and that the freestanding poles are not uh emitting light into neighboring properties
um the color or like the lumen of the light should be uh readjusted to be closer to 3500K or less um and then are how are the sconces being attached they should be attached
to the mortar and where is the conduit preferably sealed okay did I get that right just change them to color temperature okay color represents a difference i think we said the conduit should be hidden so yeah internal so it's not just
a question it's internal okay thank you um moving on this is a planning board referral uh application 2919 225 Lraine Avenue uh this is the third floor
dwelling and an additional unit i'd like to invite PE who's here to speak to and while you're getting set up I'll just give some historic content the uh this property um is in the upper Montlair
Historic Business District um it is characterized as harmonizing the report defines harmonizing as buildings constructed after the district's period of significance 1880s to 1930s and approximately 40% of the district's
buildings were categorized as either harmonizing or altered harmonizing in the the uh uh the report um we are you're coming back to us
um we looked at this application i don't remember one was it really a year ago all right and at that time we we you you we gave our um recommendations and um I'm
pleased to see what you've done with with the property um so why don't you begin um to tell us what else uh what you've done to come back for a uh just please turn your mics on and I think you you were you were sworn in the last time
so we you don't have to be sworn in again okay is it a new application number though i wonder oh I don't know procedurally yeah it is a new application it is all right so then I have to swear you in okay so can I ask you uh you said it was here be year
before and I remember I don't know that I remembered the three story before was it three story before no no this is what he's going to tell us let Let him be swearing it's okay do you swear can Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth in uh with regard
to this new application i do and please identify yourself ryan Robertson from GSAPC and this is Marchelo Rodeo the applicant and you're you're the owner yes I am yeah will you be testifying as well probably doesn't need to maybe we could swear him in if he has to answer a
question okay all right yeah so um as you said we were here about a year ago we um we actually went to the planning board after the meeting um then subsequently Marello and I met with Mr ramnitz and Mr graham who's now here
today on site um to make some tweaks to that previous application which we did and then we went to the planning board and got approval um so that was fully approved but then Marello thought about it a little bit and he decided to add a third story remove the roof terrace that
we were doing do a third story set back with a smaller little roof terrace um so a lot of this um those of you who were here last time um is going to be just the same thing so I will I won't dwell on it too much i go rather quickly
through a lot of this stuff um so just give a quick just set your um bearings we're at 225 Lraine Avenue the Mullen Croninberg Drag Cleaner it's on the north side of Lorraine Avenue near Valley Road 70 ft from the intersection
it's 009 acres um and the lot is improved with a one-story brick and stuckle building and a paved parking area next this is a photo of the um existing Google Street View but this is dated this is from the previous presentation
this is dated um October 2021 and here you see to the left is Veggie Heaven Restaurant and to the right is a um two and a half story woodframe building which is a dental office and the subject building right here is brick and stuckco
with a wood shingle mansard roof concealing a flat roof next slide is a more recent Google image this is from September 24 uh where you see the street tree that was on the previous slide right here that's been removed since that photo was
taken and here is uh here's some photos from the rear and alley views which are were important to the last application are still important in terms of planning board um because it's we intend to infill the alley just like the last application this area belongs to the
applicant um and so there's a tree this tree was removed and it was part of the the scope so that we can create at the rear a way for the tenants on valley to get out in an emergency exit
situation so let's see next slide this is an image of the surrounding area from Bing Satellite from 2023 to the east uh we talked about that um to the east is the dental office to the west is
an auto shop veggie heaven William Sonoma and to the south is the Saunders Hardware around the corner on Valley Road and that's the previous location of Marello's business mullen Croninberg operated out of that building since 1911
and then it subsequently moved to the current location in 1940 and so the proposal for this application is to construct rather than constructing a second story and a roof green roof it's to construct a second story and a third story with one
dwelling unit and additional office space on level two which hasn't changed and what has changed is one dwelling unit on level three with a small roof terrace both uh dwelling units are similar in size um the second one hasn't changed from the onebedroom one bath and a den the third floor is a onebedroom
two bath and a den um and we just like last time we're proposing um new parking area with tandem parking spaces which was previously approved by planning board uh a trash enclosure right here not changed from the last
application and these three spaces are intended for the business use to or for the employees to park these three spaces are for short visits or people coming in and out to pick up dry cleaning which again hasn't changed um this is just showing other information about the site this hasn't
changed either this is um 11 arborite in the rear which we propose to keep and eliminate four so that we can create this exit path from these two adjacent buildings since we're infilling this area again that was presented last time um it's a gravel area right a gravel
path and then this is a gravel area for store snow storage and um new plantings in the front right here are 3ft tall deciduous shrubs Carolina rose and then back here are going to be evergreen shrubs that
grow to 42 to 48 in tall and so the red arrows you see here are intended to be employee path to get to the double doors for the back of house area the green arrows will be for patrons of the
business and now we'll go to the floor plans so this floor plan has not changed um from what you saw last time it's the first floor 1,818 square ft and that's inclusive of the 128 ft addition for the
stair um we proposed just like last time a new storefront system and most of this remains unchanged just some reconfiguring in the um the service desk area and what was remaining is a small area for tailoring and the reason
he took this project up to begin with a year ago was to um provide tailoring spaces on the second floor for especially for like bridal gowns and stuff like that and have more privacy cuz right now there's hardly any place you can get measured so that is not
changing the second floor touching mouse second floor is you see the stairwell leading back down to the first floor right here you could wrap around and go up to the third floor and the front area is a tailoring area with a private um dressing room work area
private washroom and then a small office from Marchello and a private washroom for him and then here's the welding unit again this plan has not changed third floor is where we have the difference so rather than this stair
just coming up to kind of a bulkhead opening onto a green roof now it opens into a similar dwelling unit as before although it is a twob um right here is a second bathroom uh a den a bedroom on
suite bathroom and then right here you go out onto a small roof terrace this is a 1,443 ft uh 1,293 of which is the dwelling
unit and here's the roof plan um just showing the roof terrace below and a screened area for mechanical equipment here's the mechanical screen we proposed which is an aluminum 42-in tall equipment screen and so the next four slides are
of the proposed elevations the materials are brick to match existing um a stucco and a light brown color black windows black storefront and a black metal railing right at the top a short little railing here similar to
what we had um and on the south elevation here you see the top of some potted trees that will be in this front terrace the upper floor is this stucco finish uh with casement windows and we're proposing LED sign lights there'll be three of them right here shining on
this sign and two around the corner there's a small sign you probably see on your sheet better than you can see on this image there's a smaller sign right there with similar LED kind of modern looking gooseenecks the um front sign is an existing one to
be relocated it's 16 square ft and currently there's a big 40 ft sign that's not very attractive facing the parking lot we're going to replicate the first one but shrink it to 8 square ft around the side so it'll look the same and oval shape previously we had a a fabric
awning and HPC um recommended that we extend it across the whole storefront and we did that for the previous application we've kept that here uh but now instead of and later I have a slide showing side by side but previously we had all stuckco up here and here you can
see we're proposing brick um the height to the flat point of the roof is 36 ft and here's a rendered view from the southeast corner um you see the red
antiqu brick which will mass existing brown stone lintils and sills and The stuckco is just on the third floor here uh which will be a light brown kind of beigy color the east elevation is next facing the parking
lot again you see the trees and the plantings overhead up in the terrace you see the dash line of a HVAC unit behind an equipment screen uh the second wall sign I mentioned it's 8 square ft um that's to be located below a brick soldier course which is aligning with
the um the metal um kind of brick metal enclosure that's setting this area's inset on the first floor plan everything else here is of the same plane and this uh this kind of detail was the same as
the previous application along with this brick here but right here this soldier course is where it differs everywhere up from there uh it's 7 foot6 to the underside of this canopy so we've got a trash enclosure that we modified in the previous application to extend to the
full height of that so it has a roof um and underneath there will be LED lights on a timer with a motion sensor for this garbage and trash enclosure for the business and the tenants rear elevation um this shows the three HVAC units up
here behind the equipment screen the third window you see on the first floor all these windows are behind um security grills but on this one here there'll be a louver behind the security grill that was again part of the previous application and this diagram was also shown last time showing how
someone from these two adjacent buildings will get out in an emergency and go behind our building to the parking lot and to safety this elevation is quite similar to the other as well um again showing the adjacent buildings kind of
dashed and how you would get through between the two to here and then go left and then along the back um this is all of this that you see is stucco this is just set back further there's an existing PVC pipe that we had to route
up and we worked the stairs along with that and the stair really hasn't changed except for adding another flight i believe in the um in the memo it said to discuss the brick here and that's actually a graphical error this shouldn't be
showing um brick right here both buildings are at the property line so that wouldn't be showing like that um these are just some images of site improvements um the wall sconce that was previously um
proposed the LED signs that were previously previously proposed the um single EV charging station was previously proposed and here's the trash enclosure details same as before um it'll be black
aluminum and the plant schedule those are the two plant areas that I talked or the two different shrubs that I talked about on the east property line signage this is just um showing the compliance um we've talked about
that and now here's a here's an image to um kind of show the comparison so to refresh anyone's memory who saw it before just side by side I thought it would be helpful to see what was previously went through the whole process and what we've got so we had a a
higher parapit because we were doing a green roof it was serving as a um fall protection but also had a lot of structure to hold all the weight of the green roof and now we're not doing that so we could really bring down the scale of the front here but we are proposing a third story which is set back uh this
much which you could see i wish I had the dimension up i don't remember the dimension there but maybe 10 ft back um and then here's the parking lot facing elevation which was previously approved and what we're proposing now so we were wrapping the brick all the way down but
just on the first floor and we decided to carry it up here to the third floor and have a lot less stucco and kind of change the detailing um at the windows here's a comparison of the previously approved Southeast rendering
compared to what we're proposing now it is taller uh but again set back and more windows um more brick detailing less stucco here's the proposed stucco detailing is kind of like a a beveled
recess with um just to cast some interesting shadows and so this is just a little shadow study at these two windows in the rendering and a shadow study the same bevel would be happening at these um large glass doors that open onto the terrace and it's kind of to
sort of a knife's edge but this is a study at the summer solstice to we designed it so that at summer it would be in full shade and these are some um choices for the stone lintils and sills right across from us on Lraine is 629 Valley Road and
this is the detailing there it's got um kind of a high contrast stone sill and and these little accents next to the red brick and then further down on Valley 621 Valley is a more uh less stark contrast with kind of a a gray um lentil
and the creamy brick and we chose to kind of go more that route less starkly stark contrast in color and chose like a a brownish um castone lentil and silk to go with our red brick and another detailing choice as I
said we were previously he was previously located in the Saunders Hardware building um so here's a little blowup detail of their roof line with corbling brick and an inset with herring bone and we decided to just kind of call back to that as like a
little And here's the streetscape um again that's the dental office the parking area the existing building and veggie heaven and then what we propose and there's the rendering thank you does that conclude your description okay thanks before we open
it up for uh questions I do want to uh remind everyone that um a variance from the Monontlair code is required to build the third floor edition that extends into the to the rear yard and uh
there are uh a part well but but we have to consider that because we have to see how that fits in with the neighborhood so that would be for our dis our discussion okay um I'll pull up the site plans here which shows the um where that setback line is
that you're talking about it's a 20 foot setback that cuts right here so this portion here requires a variance okay great thank you so we'll open it up now for questions from the commissioners jerry do you have a question why don't you start yes I did
want to ask and just checking that variance the the back is currently the first story is non-conforming so when you add the second story and you add the third story you need a variance cuz that
will be that'll violate the s the setback the setback you know is a hypothetical line that extends up okay that's first thing uh what's the uh the ultimate height measured from the base to the to the top of the uh air
conditioning units oh well to the to the top they seem they appear to be above the the height of the building yes that's right your building height in the in the in the code is measured to the high point of the flat roof and that's 36 feet and then from there I've got a
42 inch high um so another three and a half feet so 39 1/2 ft would be to the top of the um screen okay i I know this isn't a historical question but No that's fine but uh well that increased
height building cast a shadow of the sun uh on the properties to the north and east of it let's see if I got a good image and west of it of it this image is probably the best this is
just a parking area here so the sun sun is here south so the sun would cast here um we're taller than veggie heaven so in the morning we would cast a shadow on top of just the roof but no windows for any any residents or anything like that
um and then in the evening it'd be coming in this direction and it's the dental office right here so let me show a roof plan where that screen is located the highest point is what you're concerned with and that's only this area here that would be at the 39th and Okay
the the building in back of it uh north of it is that a twostory or a two and a half story the applicant actually was thinking about purchasing that at one point right do you know he we may need to swear him in because he knows a lot about that building actually okay mr roden we'll swear you in do you swear to
tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do and you're Mr rhoden and you're R O D I N and you are the Rio rodo Rodo Rodillo sorry and you're the owner of the building this current building okay yes I am thank you
and the question was is it a two and a half story building uh yeah i'm I'm trying to get I'm trying to get to the side because I'm going to ask the building in back of it or or the north of it and then I'm going to ask to the buildings to the east of it on that side of the street are they mostly all two
and a half stories uh two or two and a half stories two and a half yeah two and a half both of them well your image of uh looks like as though the one to the north of it is taller than this than you had an image
that I could see i I I can't tell cuz there's only a uh an aerial view of the building to the north of it the north of it oh is that a three-story building then it's a three-story building in back of it okay
so but but the buildings to the uh west of it is that that one building before you get the valley and that's a I think a two-story building that's a twotory it looks like a two-story building and all the buildings uh most of the buildings
to the uh east of it on the the northern side of Lraine are two and a half yeah this is a this is a business but it looks like a residence and from here east it's all residences okay and then I'm going to ask you something that I have my own view on it but but looking
at the uh looking at the design of the building um and looking at as sort of a a description of mass it seem my question is does it seem
out of proportion to the mass of the other buildings in the uh the immediate area well I think if you look at the the rendering I think it's not out of proportion with Veggie Heaven it's certainly not out of proportion with the
building right across the street which was this uh this one which is a three-story brick building that's that's what you would be looking at from your terrace would be this building right the um Williams and Soma building is nearby it's not out of
proportion from that certainly and then there's a gas station we're at kind of a weird spot on on the fringe of the of the district I think and it's kind of like a like a membrane to the residential so like yeah because you're near residential it's certainly out of
proportion with you can't see where I'm pointing anything over here but not anything right here okay so the the building on the the south side is a threetory apartment building right here yes okay and then finally is this
in the uh central business district no um Oh no i mean I'm sorry the what I call the central business district of upper Montlair the NC it's not it's the neighborhood commercial district neighborhood commercial okay okay those
are my question thank you thank you Mr um what is what is the building what is the occupancy of the building in the just north of your site it looks like a residential building but
is it office right that's this one it's an office and two apartments it's It's an office it's an office and two apartments okay yeah and the building directly to the east of your parking lot is that residential or is
that It's a dental office it's a dental office in the first floor and there is another office is upstairs some um accountants accountants office and the next building over from that is to the east I'm just trying to
understand yes the neighborhood a little bit I believe to the east is now residence okay to the east of that so it goes east to a house dental offices to residential Yes do you have a question i don't have any
other questions i'll have comments but questions mr rooney I don't have any questions mr juliana I think at this time my only question is um um did you consider anything for the third floor in brick as well
or just are you trying to kind of visually make the third floor less prominent and that's why yeah I think something light and airy there was going to be more glass certainly on the part that faces the terrace it just felt like it needed a different treatment and I think early on we decided stuck
previously it was all stuckle above the first floor so I think it was good continuation of that a little bit um we did not take any look at doing all brick okay um and then my only other question is just in regards to parking I I know were very unders sized with the current
count is um you know with the day-to-day business of the dry cleaner and the alterations I mean do you feel like there's enough adequate parking to assume maybe four spaces are taken up by the apartments well um part that's part of the planning board variance is he is going to have to
requ uh purchase overnight parking okay um and we had agreed to that previously previously our um we were deficient I I have it here it's in the drawing set let me find it um the total required is 15.9 spaces and
because we're doing a EV charging station we get a credit for one so we're proposing six but we're really getting credit for seven so we were asking for a variance last time of eight and it was approved okay now with this we um well I'm sorry that 15.9 is what it is now m
previously it would have been that minus 1.8 so um 14.1 is what we asked for last time okay but you did get the overnight has it arranged yet all right just curious if it was kind of there was a
strategy for it those are my only questions at this time i have a question about the height if you go back to the image of the proposed third story yeah uh that um is it it looks very high is that be is
there a parapit up there to uh to disguise the right to disguise the air conditioning um just a just a short one not a very tall parapit it's not like a fall protection parapit because it looks from that from that angle that
it's you know the it just looks a lot what is the the height of the stories like if you go from the first story to the second story second story to the third and then the proposed third to the roof just seems
abnorming it is a higher ceiling on that third floor um Oh a higher ceiling so it's a 8ft ceiling I believe here and I think it was 96 96 to here it steps up a little bit from the terrace too so that's adding another 8 in oh okay um like you could
see right here that the the finished floor level is a little higher than the terrace level and then you add to that another 9 foot6 for the I think that goes to a question of massing and whether or not that you could consider bringing that ceiling level down so that
it it's it's not as high sure i think when you look at this I see what you're saying that it looks high but remember you won't you won't see it like this you'll see it more like this in the rendering and right here and so lowering that we could lower the
ceiling height on there a little bit and but it just makes that stuckle band narrower and I think to my eye proportionally I I don't like it as much but it could be done i I just questioned because it it you know the question again about massing
and how it looks too overscaled compared to what the the I mean that also the color makes it stand out as well that's lighter in a way that sort of blends more into the sky you know the the the sky but it just looks as though the
stories don't um you know line up okay thank you any other questions commissioners no um what any questions from the audience and if not we'll go to
before we have our comments okay miss Alexi do you want to go over the report that um Sure uh there's a lot to note in this i I think the the the main the main issue or main question is what of the original
building is still remaining because it's not abundantly clear in the renderings on either this the street facade or the west facade what's original you're you're proposing a new red brick the storefront looks very different um so you know it's a question of is is this
actually an addition or is this new construction I think is kind of the gist of the main comments in the report right yes so what remains um the storefront's being removed and because we're infilling the alley right here
this portion of the brick corner has to be removed but this portion of the brick can stay which wraps a little bit around the corner the this uh pitched roof is going so really if you look at this what's existing in element four elements one
being that two being that three being the storefront and four being the roof only one really remains visually because just out of necessity out of practicality but if you were to look at an existing side elevation which is not in the presentation but it's probably in
the drawings here let me see existing side elevation would be on your the third page of your fourth page of your set um detail five if you can see that with the the Mullen Croninberg sign the large sign I
was talking about that's 40 ft that whole side is um is stucco and that's that massing all remains but we were removing the stucco and doing brick instead so the brick pier in the southwestern corner of the storefront is remaining effectively
at street level but that brick pier currently is not red brick no yeah that's right so the idea for then the entire additional red brick is to match that brick pier right
okay um you know again with additions you you want to uh not overwhelm the original um they they've obviously made efforts to set back the third floor um I think due to the fact that there's a parking lot immediately adjacent to
this the third floor addition is far more visible than it would normally be if there was a building immediately next to it um and I think um however I will say that it is certainly an upgrade from what was previously presented a year ago
um and I do I think what is noted in in Steven's report is there is a nice respect to the commercial storefront streetscape with the two stories with the setback uh it certainly reads as a commercial building which is appropriate for the area given the corner is a
commercial area um I think the comments about how is it on terms of massing versus the other properties are appropriate there are as the applicant noted there are three three and four story buildings immediately in the vicinity um so while it is a large
addition in relation to the original building it is fairly appropriate to the massing of the uh adjacent buildings thank you so we'll start with comments uh now can I get one other question sure
why did you add the third floor i'm sorry why did you add the third floor you liked seeing you guys there might be an opportunity for me to move up there not sure but it might be an opportunity you know in the near
future okay was it an economic reason that is that you you needed to get an added space to make the whole project viable it was more viable also yes okay
okay thank you Nick uh any what's your comment um I mean I think the overall building design is is very handsome i think it's a lot better than the first version um I think the brick work is really well done on the first and the second floor you
know with the cornice detailing and the inlaid herring bone pattern um you know the window pattern looks appropriate to the neighborhood um I don't have a problem with the third story per se i mean it's within the height conformance
of the ordinance but it is massing that's falling within the rear yard setback ordinance um but also there is parking right next to it there's not going to be another you know one story or twotory building that it's shadowing over um although in the back there is
you know behind it so I mean I don't love the third story on it but I think the pros outweigh the cons on it um you know and I think there's a lot of effort here to make it a little more consistent with the neighborhood so I think I'd overall be in support of it
thank you M mr rooney um I don't have any problems with the the third floor on there because it's in that district where things are two and three stories um although that that's a definite
end to the district um I like what you did with the brick on the front with the corbling at at the top and herring bone to match what was going on across the street um and I think it's going to work thank
you Mr um I also think the first two floors is a great improvement over what was there before um the rendering really sells that however and I don't have a problem
conceptually of putting a third floor on this but I've seen enough of these just plain boxes dropped on historical buildings around town they look awful at the end of the day it's all just stuccoho and I I get the I get the
window detail of this um of that but additionally I mean we're looking at from the street if if I'm reading this right the north elevation is is three floors of stucco with no windows right it's not
not allowed to have windows yeah the three that are on the first floor are non-conforming i think because you're within six feet or something of the property right uhhuh um yeah so we had to be careful even about
the windows we proposed on the west elevation here let's see even those you could barely see them in this but these windows because of the distance from the property line had to be a certain size so they're smaller than we would have liked right but you're right that the
rear is But you're you're massing this build you're building that back well you're building this all new right so you picked it to be 2'9 off of the property line no no that's existing this existing is existing yeah this is the existing plane and it's just going up i
see well how visible is that from the existing is just Do you have the um public right away on your drawing set do you have the the image that shows this there you can really see the the building in question that we were talking about to the north there's quite
a bit of a sideyard there there's a fence uh that does not belong to the applicant it belongs to that property and I think there's trees i shouldn't say that i don't know for sure he has trees he has trees they're screening do you have a photo of what of the
visibility from Valley Road i'll just No right no i'm just wondering how visible it is from Valley Road to your point John I I you know my comment is just about the the So you can't put in
windows but you could certainly don't have to have all stucco either a 40 foot high stucco a wall that is I don't know whatever wide by 40T it's all stucco yeah I understand the windows things but I
and I I realize it's sort of off of Valley Road so you it's hard to see and it's a little bit around one building so it's hard to see so I'm not overly I I didn't realize you couldn't put windows there i'm not too concerned about that
facade i'm more concerned about what you see u in your rendering um right yeah go back to there that that that stucco block just sort of
dropped on there and I you know you did such a great job on the first two floors it's like you know perhaps a little bit more effort in terms of Yeah i wonder if if we want to see the third story in brick what maybe
we want to see the third story in brick yeah at least half brick here's here's an I'm sorry yeah i mean all the other thirdstory buildings I'm sorry I'm interrupting that's okay all the other third threetory buildings are brick buildings they have windows
and they have cornises and they have whatever the massing is three stories but you know it's again I've seen too many of these buildings around where these boxes have just been dropped on top and it's ghost
stories yeah it's if it was set back but you don't have room to set it back from the that facade you know it's so that's my basic and I agree more effort on the top i agree i think if it
was brick with maybe just a stucco back wall all stuckle all the way to the third floor would it would fit in more with the neighborhood and also to reduce the the height a little i think it's I think it's just the massing is too much for the top where where it looks really
beautiful on the first and second floor you did a great job so that would be my comment and I just want to I think you'd have to come back for the signage right Zab this isn't a a an approval for signage i don't believe so well the the signage
will be a variance with the planning board okay right and then we were approved for the sign variance last time there's no change to what we were approved so it's the same the signage is the same oh I thought it was I thought it would change well it did i'm sorry um I think as part of the planning board comments we had to reduce this the
parking lot facing one to 8 square ft i remember that we were I think we proposed like 21 square feet or something so that oval just shrunk and that was I think it's in the um resolution right okay all right so you don't have to come back for signage then okay you just have the one sign on the
front that oval sign and then the the lighting is what is the lighting this the almost the like gooseeneck lighting over Yep these right here i see led and then uh and then that long wallcon
sconce that is on either of the brick peers on the front facade right here laser right here and right here well my comment again is that I think it's a vast improvement from last time um but I as what you've heard up
here excuse me so I don't know what Mr sweeney is going to say but um I find that the um the third floor box on the top is it just doesn't fit in in with it at all i mean it's not as detailed or it
just looks like a big box yeah i would just say I I don't think we have a problem with adding the third floor just make it look like it belongs okay you ready yes okay first in a general not a historic comic i think uh
twothirds of your building is beautiful and is really historic it adds to the neighborhood and it and I think it actually adds to the historic character uh the addition on the third floor and
it may be a a combination of pattern but I think for me it adds too much mass it's too high it's too bland it's too unhistoric and um I think it's uh cast
uh it has some negative impact on the uh the neighborhood too but most of all from the historic preservation I would say he got an A+ on the first two floors And um I I actually love the the deck on the third floor but the um the add-on
box on the top just doesn't contribute to the historic character and it's in my view too large a mass and and not uh consistent with the character at least of that side of the street which is
essentially a two and a half story um uh looking like residential type buildings okay so I think we're all we're all in agreement about the um the variance for the third floor dwelling space has no
impact um on the historic character but the uh the definition what what what you do up there needs to be reworked i'm sorry I missed that last sentence what what the detail what you we suggested to have encase it in brick and
make it all brick as opposed to uh the stucco okay or come back with you know something that's just not a flat stucco wall right you know it's that's that's okay what's
a little difficult i mean I mean I feel like I feel like we're not doing flat stucco i don't know if the rendering is doing justice to have this we are insetting it it's 4 in and doing it bevelled in four directions with a a lint uh not a lintil but a you know the
flange um casting shadows this is a knife's edge here with bevels from three directions so I don't agree there's a block but I know Amy but you only have three windows on the on the uh up high
on the parking lot side right is that right am I looking did I see that yeah three windows on the parking lot side the other windows you can't see from the street i appreciate you're doing it but it doesn't really add
to I just did a little sight line from across the street if you were standing there could you see this you can't where you see it is exactly that rendering so I get those three windows have that detail but Okay would that stucco have
joints in it we didn't show any no okay doesn't need joints i'm just seem to appear after you know I see yeah what about reducing the uh the height of it the height of the addition on the top the third floor well I don't
know what the ceiling heights that's a question well you could also put a corners yeah I think it's a matter of adding more detail i don't think we should design it i'm not going to give us an idea
okay okay we do our comments thank you thank you now before we go to our next application thank you very much they really came out thank you for uh moving in the right direction yes and and really taking our our recommendations from the last time i think it looks
great and improving twothirds of the building i thought it go uh before we move on to the next application I'd like to open up the uh meeting to public comment is there anybody in the audience that would like
to come up and address the commission good evening Mr damato hi there um very quickly and and keep your comments brief okay what less than three minutes good uh Eric Damato i'm the first ward counselor it was fascinating to watch this i just
wanted to quickly stop by uh and say hi first of all I will I'm angling to be the liaison from the council to this uh to the commission so hopefully uh that will happen uh and I will see you more i also just wanted to say that um chair
Bennett uh and I were at a meeting yesterday uh at the library uh we are all a lot of people a lot of stakeholders in the world of the library are working very feverishly right now on a sort of unusual grant opportunity
uh which would uh which has a very tight window that's coming up in June and it involves some reworking reimagining of the plans that people may know from 2019 and 2020 the so-called Burman plan to
have improvements to both the main library and the Belleview branch and including an expansion at the Belleview branch there were renderings that were done back then that have that history has passed by and most people if they see them think they're a little jarring
and and uh it's a it's again it's a very truncated process that's going on but I just wanted to come and and you know for obvious reasons say that this is happening and that anybody here should be reaching out to director Ali to
planner Thally to chair Bennett myself all these people who are involved to just be involved in the process but knowing that it is a staged process where there will be very very preliminary um drawings and lists of values that are
put in to the economic development authority in Trenton with the hope of getting uh a very large chunk of tax credits it's speculative but it does touch on historic buildings and it will be done in a way that is respectful uh
uh to to to these buildings uh but it is a it is a slightly different process that's all so you can talk with the chair about about this thank you and thank you for introducing yourself thank you yeah sorry I would if I made you change your your timeline i'm single
parenting this week so couldn't couldn't come i'll see you're only an hour late this time what you're only an hour late thank you thank you so there's additionals being proposed to the libraries is that what I did so I I
was at a meeting yesterday and remember when we uh looked at the uh the plaza so that now has has taken on another life of of in incorporating major changes to
both the main library and the upper monk and the Belleview Avenue library the plaza is still involved but what they want to do is try to go is go after this grant which is a federal uh I guess
state and federal money and they want to they want to revisit the idea for the Belleview Avenue which is our where we would be able to comment um the plaza and then the rear i don't know if you remembered what those plans were
from 2017 no um but it it they were people did did we didn't review it because it never got to that point but the people that saw it informally before the formal review did not like it because it was a big glass box that was
off the that was off the back so they want to um enlarge the library make it ADA accessible because there's no elevator there and that's really the main thrust of this and rather than have it come
right off the back of the of the the building like this like a big block they're going to they they're proposing like an L shape but this is all in the conceptual stage nothing no final plans have been drawn up um there's you know
there's a lot of moving pieces that need to be fit in and so when the next the next the next meeting is um I don't know am I am I correct in that Mr damato my analysis of what yes and when is the
deadline that that this all has your the project this grant I mean it's really quite tight from what I understand it would open it would be about 90 days from now that we
would have to submit very very rough plans the plans that were made in 2019 for the main branch for the main building are much more um would stay but
a lot of the internal uh uh proposals for the fit out and and all that internal archite that's literally changed in 5 years because the way libraries are used has changed in 5 years um uh but it would be June and then they would be meeting on
the merits of the thing which are not about the design but but about the cultural contribution and then the very particular and arcane financing mechanisms and and and these other things i believe in
September they would make a determination and then after that there would be another you know a phase but we would know probably before September if we're in good shape and I can tell you right now that we would be making an
investment and the library and the and the foundation if they are over the next days and weeks comfortable they are going to have to make a commitment of some money to get this done and and we will discover whether or not it's a
compelling application to to the state and then we will hustle to tighten it up in which case I believe that the HPC would have to be intimately involved uh but if you do see these I'm not telling you to not go look at them go look at
this thing and we could circulate it and you should know where we're starting from and just not to be alarmed that that's the end point because I don't think any of the stakeholders believe it is the end point okay great thank you thank you for the clarification so keep us in the loop
good night okay we'll just take a five minute break please okay thank you so thank you for being so patient now we're on to application 2923 140 uh Chestnut Street this is a
zoning board referral if you would come forward please ever speak to the project and and testify so this house is a great while you're settling in I'll just give a little bit of a historic background has
a great um history to it mhm um it was identified in the in the uh as a potential resource in preservation Monontlair the 1981 survey form states that the single family home was originally constructed in 1910 and served as the office of Montlair
architect Dudley Van Antwerp the building was originally constructed at 44 Church Street and was relocated to 140 Chestnut Street or as they say in the uh or James Street which is in the uh Monontlair Times article in 1920
where it served as a residence for the Van Answer family so and this is important while no property records show the date that the garage was built the survey forms show it is not in the period of significance for this home the garage does not represent the 1933 Atlas
of Montlair and surrounding towns there is no mention of the garage in the 1981 preservation Monlair survey form the house is identified as a historic resource due to its historic features and the construction by the architect
Dudley Vanwer um the area on at surrounding 140 Chestnut Street is not identified as a potential historic resource therefore demolishing the garage would have no impact on the historic character of the
neighborhood or surrounding avenue surrounding area and I'd like to mention that this demolition was granted an expedited demolition uh because of the fact that the garage was deemed not historic and our historic preservation officer she and I spoke about it and she
was the one that gave the um approval for the for the demolition so that's the reason it didn't come before the entire board because if it was historic if it did date to the time of the house you would have had to come to uh uh get approval for the demolition so knowing
that the demolition of the garage has been approved um you're going forward with that and what we're going to do tonight is look at the plans that you have for the for the structure and uh so you saw what how we do it um we somebody
speaks to the application and um and we ask questions and then we have a a commentary so if you would identify yourselves and I'll swear you in um I'm Joanna Seltzer i'm the What's that i'm Joanna Seltzer the homeowner okay
i'm uh Darren Rogers from Woke Builders i'm the builder oh nice to meet you okay so just raise your right hand do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth in terms of this application yes okay thank you so Miss Seltzer and Mr rogers rogers great
so do you have a is that what's up now yes okay do you want to speak to speak about the application and the the building sure um do you do you want to go up to the to the computer there's a handheld
[Applause] [Applause] mic good okay um I feel like I'm doing improv right now um so I just want to introduce our
relationship to the town also we both grew up here we went to the high school we attended Glenfield Hillside Nishuain um I purchased the home in 2019 i grew up on Fairfield Street which also had a
home by this architect a couple houses over from me i was fully aware when I purchased the home of what any restrictions or limitations would be should we need a renovation um I do have two children who one will be starting middle school they'll both be attending
the high school so much of the renovation plans are with that in mind that when I started and moved here with them they were four and six and so we could have them in a bunk bed and it wasn't a big deal that this was a 950 ft
house with small children now with a son who is almost as tall as me starting middle school soon etc and both kids being in the high school we do want to make sure that the home can fit everybody as well as some of the overflow that happens on Chestnut Street
coming in and out of the high school etc um so as you can see I believe um the actual property itself is 950 square ft in total um we did have to renovate um and waterproof the basement when we
moved in um our primary goal knowing that we cannot go up because of the historic nature of the property our primary goal was to retain as much of the essence of the home and so knowing that we can't go
up but we also can't go too back because of the way the land is shaped and we also can't go too much to the side because of our neighbors we were trying to maximize um you know where we could fit an additional bedroom or bathroom
and try to keep this as low as possible um and not having um any bedrooms or any um meaningful real estate that would be in any way kind of like resembling a second floor um so that we could keep
just like the bungalow nature of the home um there is um here I don't know if I can can I zoom in okay um over here where there is a side
porch here it's a little bit hard i think you can see it better on this one um there is a bay window here that the consultant mentioned um this bay window um as much as would be great to
keep it it's very hard because that side porch is one of the only ways architecturally that we can push the house out instead of going back or encroaching onto the other neighbor so utilizing this area of the side porch
and pushing out so that we can fit in an additional bedroom um was one of the ways that we tried to work around the nature of the property and kind of the slope in the back we don't want to you know have to push even more into um the
back that is going to make the variance even worse um so we're trying to utilize the pre-existing porch here um so that we can cover that up before I go to the next do you want do you have anything okay I'm doing
it um and then you can see here let's see um in the proposal that we're working to um bring the garage up and part of that reasoning is so that we
can um have more backyard um given having children and everything and being able to access the backyard and the total height of this um kind of extra um multi-function could be an
office space working from home etc on top of the garage more of a loft space it um is no more than 1 ft 7 in taller than the roof peak of the existing home so we could this this part here um
that's designed to be kind of like a multi-purpose loft space um is is 1T 7 in taller than the roof peak of the existing home so that was very intentional
um design by the architect to make sure that it was basically as short as possible so that you could stand up in there um but that it wasn't egregiously um overpowering kind of like the onestory
lowlevel onef flooror nature um that is sort of the essence of the home and there was also an intentional um limited roof height so that it was pushed back um 21 ft and the height of the garage is
33 ft back so that the actual bungalow part of the house is what is the most forward facing to the street because we have the garage 33 back 33 feet back from the original facade and original
front-facing part of the home is that a double correct double um yes but in a tight capacity yes yes but in not like a generous capacity yeah it's the garage is more of
a onecar garage oh okay so it's like a one and a half correct okay i couldn't figure out what Okay all right so um we'll ask we'll ask questions now all right so do you want
to start uh yeah this is not intended as humor but uh one and a half car garage can you describe that how is that is that width is that height or is that length i mean we're trying to be mindful we're trying to be mindful not to encroach because already we have a
variance for the the back right so like at a certain point we're just trying to be mindful like to not have a million variances okay so the the main project you're just trying to add on uh space you can have
an office uh for um it did seem unduly restricted which you said is the height but but that's that appears to be a decision by your architect but um the character the external um appearance of
the house will look similar uh and of the same material as the the main house correct okay so we'll blend in and it'll be just closer the rod won't be set back the same way mhm okay that's the only question I have
simple all right um I don't have any questions but I'll have comments mr brown um no no questions mr i just have one i don't know if this is
more for your architect but I was just curious if there was any consideration at any point to have the flex space be behind the garage edition versus on top of it primarily um it had to do with trying to
preserve the backyard because the way that the backyard is angled it's this weird L shape m so like the farther back we went with the actual home it would like reduce the footprint of you know what we could have available for the
back question yeah doesn't the existing garage um sit at a location that you're just saying you need is that it trying to Well yeah because we've lived there for five years now so we because that
structure is there the the backyard is not utilized in the way you can't access it but if if as Nick says you put that office space behind the garage you wouldn't go farther than where that
existing garage is um sure okay with this question yeah um I think again they were just trying to be mindful um so that
um the idea of having you know kids coming home from high school being in the backyard and being able to full fully utilize it since it's only been partially utilized um in the way that the current um layout is now I think was a motivation for them to kind of open up
the backyard space a little bit more yeah and I'm also aware there was one other motivation to that in that by shifting I'll call it the garage component of the structure toward the street it would basically kept us below the threshold that would have triggered
uh the kind of storm water runoff mitigation uh which is a hot topic in any sort of addition nowadays um so by reducing the amount of imperous coverage that currently exists like the driveway that
leads up to the garage by basically building the addition at top a portion of that we're basically able to avoid that issue would you be over impervious coverage or just over the threshold that you need will we be over the 250 ft
allowance for disturbance of impervious but you could still be under the imperous maximum okay correct so I think and then whereas right now the garage and the way that it sits on the property given as Joanna said the kind of I'll call it that inside corner that kind of L-shaped nature we're actually improving
a side kind of a rear yard setback so it ends up making the structure you know more compact uh with the benefit of a a better designed rear yard yeah yeah and just for context you know
obviously the home was 950 ft when we purchased it but we purchased it in the in the fall winter of 2019 so it was having to navigate the pandemic and working from home without
any flex space at all um that you know really became incorporated into the plans as they were evolving because we were just seeing the reality of what happens if everyone's home at the same time or you know how do you kind of squirrel away or find those those um
spaces um and there's kind of an open layout now and it's all very you know everyone is you know you can hear everything and it's harder um to navigate without that like flexible base to utilize so I have a question did you
know the significance of this house before you bought it or did you Oh you did okay so I have to say thank you for being aware of that and trying to work within the you know the the scope of that because uh I think this house
stands out in on Chestnut Street in the smallness of it the bungalow quality of it so uh I'm so happy you didn't consider going you know expanding up um okay so having said that and my next
question is and I think you somebody asked that oh Jerry you did what is the the existing house is Cedar Shakes now correct yes okay and that's what that's what you'll will the proposed addition
will be the same as the existing house yeah right now while that detail is not 100% finalized we are looking for something consistent with that whether it is cedar shake whether it is clapboard of a similar reveal whether it is a composite shake that's something
that we are discussing truth be told it's more of probably a kind of cost consideration um but it will be in line with what is there like it will not be stuck it will not be brick it will not be you know uh board and batten you know
it will be consistent with with the house okay so um we we give recommendations and then uh this what goes to the uh the zoning board all right and then we were just given this
so I I didn't we didn't get a chance to look at this what what could you just describe what this is explain what this is uh so my understanding was the as we're we mentioned the idea of the demolition of the existing garage
which is I'll call it structurally unsound as are many of the old garages in Montlair um so we were prepared initially to kind of pursue the approval for just the demolition of the structure and at that time we said well the cost
to rebuild the garage in its current place compared to the project that Joanne is looking to pursue that to kind of you know the what you have is kind of a rough estimate to kind of build a twocar garage on her property which we
were requested to kind of provide as a point of almost like not economic hardship but like hey we're not going to do that to get going we're going to submit that as just a point of reference knowing that we're actually going to pursue the project that you have the drawings for yeah I think it was when we
when we initially submitted um the low um impact of the garage was not known at that point and so making sure that you had all the information to be able to incorporate into your decisions
and recommendations um you know that the demolition of the garage in and of itself and to just simply replace it where it was would you know is estimated to cost so we don't have to be concerned with with this right now okay i just want I think they they're just saying they did
some research what it was going to cost okay it was just an additional documentation for the demolition demolition report okay got it all right um so with that any other questions commissioners before we ask Alexi to um
go over uh Mr smallen's report okay sure uh I'll just read some highlights from uh Steven's report as I think Kathleen did an excellent job kind of describing the property and and its
significant uh significance but I would say the sub subject structure historic character is defined by consistent materials and complimentary roof profile making it a contributing element to the property during the period of significance 1912 to 1934 coinciding with Antworp Antworp's involvement with
the property the applicant describes the subject garage structure as ruinous while the planning report deems it beyond repair and structurally unsound photos submitted showed significant facade racking and sagging roof ridge line indicative of a likely foundation
failure or settling additionally poorly executed executed pass repairs and a deteriorated garage door and needed replacement further highlight the subject's garage structures poor condition uh moving on
to the secretary of interior standards for rehabilitation for this the the following apply which would be standard 4 five and nine standard four most properties change over time those changes that have acquired historic significance in their own right shall be
retained and preserved standard five reads distinctive features finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize historic property shall be preserved and standard number nine new additions exterior alterations or related new construction will not destroy historic materials
features and spatial relationships that characterize the property the new work should be differentiated from the old and will be compatible with historic materials features size scale and proportion and massing to protect the integrity of the property and its environment uh moving on to his
comments on the last page uh primarily again concerning the um addition as I feel the garage is pretty much agreed upon must go uh the proposed addition is partially compatible with the existing main house the use of wood siding aligns with the historic exterior cladding
however its twotory height and massing overwhelm the scale of the singlestory mainhouse making it visually dominant rather than subordinate and then the proposed addition is adequate adequately differentiated due to its placement and connections to the main house however the applicant should clarify whether
reversibility was considered to allow future removal and potential restoration the removal of an original bay window on the east elevation results in a loss of historic fabric though I will add that bay windows visibility is fairly limited from the street uh two other comments I
would like to add is that the roof plans show two skylights that face the street uh in the new area of addition but they are not shown on any of the renderings or the elevations and as a general comment I feel the roof lines overall
are a bit tricky um partially due to the original uh structure but also due to the addition um in particular the garage has uh an additional uh bracketed overhang above
it i feel kind of adds to the fact that the garage is a little bit more dominant than I believe the Secretary of Interior standards would prefer and that's it that's the one the bracketed bracket overhang yeah the white bracket directly over the garage door yes as opposed to
just continuing maybe the roof line as it is on the original structure okay i'm happy to remove the bracket i mean I I think they added the bracket to pull into details from that era it's not needed structurally
um but I think that that was the original intent was to kind of pull in different architectural styles from that that time to keep it consistent but it's not relevant one way or the other um
maintain okay thank you um Vic do you want to start with comments please sure um I mean overall I feel like it's a fairly strong proposal um for the existing house i mean I can appreciate what you're trying to do by not making
it a one-story addition with two rooms back to back you know if you're removing the existing garage it does kind of cut off the rest of your backyard from the back part of what would be the kitchen and you know if you're making an investment like this you want to improve your condition so um you know
appreciative of that i can see why you want to do it i think the overall massing you know to me it doesn't really appear as an overbearing two-story addition from the street i think the architect did a lot of good work with the roof line design to make it match with the main house um I do think
eliminating that roof overhang at the garage door would help a lot um you know we're not here to design the house for you but if you just kind of continued the main roof over the garage you know to be like a deep three or 4 foot overhang it would kind of be more in
keeping with the front of the house that has that deep overhang at the portico you know and it would be less vertical wall that you're seeing on that addition on that side of the house so it would probably make it look a little bit more subordinate to the existing house if you know if it was just more roof that you
were seeing and less kind of almost one and a half stories of vertical wall at the garage door wall um but you know overall I think it's a I think it's well done um I'd be supportive of it mr
yeah I agree i think that the the the bracket detracts but it also u reason it's there is to make that wall look less imposing so if you brought the just
naturally let the roof come down and match up um at the end with whatever this room is at the corner that's a bedroom okay i think that it
would uh benefit the the the building itself okay when I when I look at this house what I see is a lot of roof mhm what are
the elements you see okay so I would tend I know the kind of space you're trying to create above the garage but I would tend to get rid of the that clear story so it's just roof above it and put the clear story in the back and the
windows on the side but get rid of that so you're just reading roof like you're reading the rest of of the house and I agree with Steve to bring the roof of the garage down and I don't know bracket off I I think some brackets off that
side wall would break that up a little bit but I would get rid the the little I don't know what you call this what do you call that brackets brackets just a bracket roof above the I would get rid of that and if there was the the one roof that's
not the same slope as all the other roofs is the one over the bedroom it's a because you're trying to scale and go all the way to the back i got it so um it's too bad you
lose the corner of that what's the room there oh the bedroom number three the existing roof over what will be the bedroom number three if somehow you you could deal with that
connection i I You're tight for space there's probably no You're tight in the back i I have a question um uh 99 so you need 20 so the rear yard setback is 25% of your
9918 dimension on the side i see and you're going down to 17 yeah um it was a little bit like um a Rubric's a Rubric cube Tetris kind of situation because we weren't trying to we couldn't
go out we couldn't go too far to the neighbor we couldn't go too far to the back so that's where some of that Yeah I appreciate I think it's I think in general the you guys did a good job i What is the height of the garage doors
and the and the door into the house do you know what that is i mean it'd be helpful if those if the garage doors were taller okay that door into the house i think that would break down that sort of wall space above it to
the roof that you just make it smaller okay scale it down a little bit okay those are those are my comments i think the the I mean we could definitely check on the height of the garage door i think part of it was the height of the garage door is to some
degree limited by the fact that we do have that additional space above the garage um and if we were to extend that roof toward the street as we were talking about the other thing that would occur is we're going to start to shadow out the windows into
that bedroom number three so in the way that it is set back like this the kind of fascia of that area like the bracket yeah that you know I understand what that is architecturally or visually can be adjusted um but I do think it was there to kind of break up would have
been just a lot of solid wall above that door that would probably look you know I'm not suggesting you bring the roof down below the any further than where you show the bracket right now if you
just extend that roof to the same line as where that bracket is now okay uh you're not Got it yeah then it lines up with the window okay and I and I'm just trying to break down the scale of that space above right above the door to
the roof understood it's not a blank wall that's sort I I tend to look at these things what are the strong elements of the existing house how can you just use those right embellish and keep it so the So those go
down so by pulling the roof down a little bit on the garage side it would be a little bit more visually in line with the roof line mhm yeah adjacent just make all the those you've got it looks like the slope of the garage roof
is the same slope as the rest of the house so that would match up um the dormer is a new element i would tend not to I would tend to accentuate the roofs yeah that makes sense i have a qu I don't know if I misheard but our
consultant did you talk about skylights or Yeah yes there's there's two skylights shown on the roof plans but where where you can't because the roof is so shallow where are they right there oh um on the you can't see either
they're like this right yeah I think that I think you don't really see them because you wouldn't see them if that makes sense because the problem is that and having lived there for you know a certain number of years already there is a darkness within the house um which is why so many people opt for skylights
right but um there is a darkness that will only get darker um kind of like right in the middle epicenter and so that is is where some of that idea to to have solar tubes a skylight um would just help to bring
it's hard to um it's hard to I guess it's it's like there's a darkness kind of like in this general area mhm um that was the idea for I believe that the skylights are above the bathroom correct and the hallway between the living room
and kitchen oh yeah darren is going to pull it up yeah cuz where the kitchen is going to be is going to end up having a lot of darkness on one part of it um and the same thing for the bathroom there's no window in there so it was to supplement that so there's at least some
natural light yeah adding one skylight would bring light into that new bath that's kind of trapped in the center of that area and then other one would bring light into the hallway yeah the issue here is that with the garage here
that light so that's why we're trying to get lighting down in that direction okay i'm sorry i just I I didn't see it at all until certainly if you could could you scroll down to the rendering that's at the bottom of that same
drawing i keep going to the actual uh yeah the rendering right and then if you zoom in I I would still believe that those skylights would be visible on that roof right there yeah um no because they would actually be on the other side
they're on the other slope they would be on the other side of That's not the way they're drawn on the other side of there yeah they would be on that face but yeah I think one would be mostly concealed by this the way the roof plan is drawn the
ridge is that ridge and the skylights are on the drive or on the street side of that ridge yeah so I'm sorry that um they have a on the elevation can those be moved to
to the other it's so flat that on the other side of the roof yeah I can definitely speak with the architect to confirm okay so we're making notes here so So I have a question getting back to this garage and the garage door is Is
it What size is it honestly what is it um well do you have just 8 foot clearance inside the garage what's from the garage floor to the ceiling how much do you have do you know i don't know but I I we don't have a section or anything
i mean I'm can if we can determine I'm happy to get you that information for some reason I've been involved in a lot of garages lately so I know you can get tracks that sit very tight to the ceiling yeah uh so if
you have an 8 foot high uh space in your garage you could come down just really with the track 6 in so that you could get a door in there that's more on the order of 7 foot6 almost as opposed to 6'8 i'm just trying to elevate that a
little bit so whether I don't know whether you can or not it's a suggestion just to try to raise that no but I think it's a good suggestion because it it it really suggestion change it's a great suggestion it
changes that whole uh blank area and is this a a uh they're not doors then it's it'll be a uh what do you call that John overhead yes thank you it's an overhead um yeah it would be an overhead
i I have a comment we're not supposed to talk about color or whatever no I I would tend to change the the either the material or the color of the doors so it's not just one big white
blob well that's what they tend to be attracted to this right that's why I couldn't tone that down that also helps yeah i wasn't I mean I think we're flexible because we understand you know historic input so again there you know
there are certain things that would be a design requirement like an extra bedroom or like a bigger kitchen etc but um how it's done and your input to figure out you know what would be most in keeping um that is part of the process comment
is just to sort of again reduce the scale right because your eye tends to be attracted to the whatever white big white block all the rest of the blue there so I mean the suggestion yeah I understand I mean I'm not as versed as you are in
this era of architecture and the style so you know I we are open to like considering different options based on like what is most in keeping you know of of what would make sense from from that time but but we're still in comments do you have anything no I don't have any
more comments Mr sweeney uh yes I think first as to the garage it should be torn down i I support that as to the redesign um the question I would have is the same thing as opposed to what is your uh the
interior height of the garage and if you can reduce that can you reduce the level of the house i'm my concern is I view it as a bungalow style house mhm with the connection addition it almost converts
to a ranch style not quite ranch but it's a sequence so but I think if you had the height just a little lower but you got to have useful space up above um then um you know that would be uh a
more consistent with the historical character of a bungalow with a garage connected so other than that I I think it's uh appropriate i I don't have the kind of uh comments that some of the
people that deal with uh architectural matters regularly have but I I think it's I think it maintains the overall historic character so So I'm basically comfortable i just would like that a little bit lower i just Yeah so right now the based on the elevation marks
that they have the lower level of the garage would have approximately an 8ft ceiling the upper level minimum size uh interior ceiling by it's habitable space is 7 ft
okay but garage is not considered habitable space so the garage could it could drop down the level you could gain a foot make it 7 ft in there but that means those doors Yeah the doors will have to shrink i don't know what they become they become 6'5 yeah then you
can't fit a car in yeah no i I don't think that would help and then on the upper level at its peak because again it's not a flat roof or flat ceiling I should say on that upper level but at its peak it would have a a finished ceiling height of about 8 foot five that
tapers down to uh you know certainly south of that so and and the 8 foot five is when you're inside but from the outside that um the roof of the garage
does um is measured at 1T7 in taller than the roof of the existing house so it is under 2 feet currently in terms of trying not to be too dominant um I I think I I think it's
okay these elevations are always difficult to look at what you're not reading is the roofs are going away from you they're going away from you they're not like this so I think the scale of it is not bad it is hard i mean I can say also like having spent time looking at
it that like there is that vantage point where how it's you know it does I think in actual the actual build of it in real 3D um would not make it seem in that that way as well because once someone
talks about something being you know two foot difference that's two foot this is two feet right here so this is the difference from the top of the garage roof in in comparison to the existing rooftop got it that with with the giant tree over it and everything else I think
would kind of get washed out the the existing windows in the original house are those replacement windows or those They are definitely not the original windows okay um are they grills are they snap-in grills
i don't know what that is i don't know what a snap and grill they're like individual panes of glass in the windows i don't even I mean they're not glass they're whatever the they're the what they're they're not glass windows so they're vinyl windows okay but then
within within let's say the operable sash is it just one piece of glass or are there multiple pieces of glass with like pieces of wood separating no um in in terms of those like current windows
like right there they're just plain vinyl those are not the original windows from the house they must they were definitely updated at some point i I have one other question just to elaborate on what you said there is a uh
large tree in front of the garage and your point is part of the foilage of that tree will obscure the roof and the garage so it will be less noticeable okay i think that's an important factor yeah because also we were very careful
to keep that tree yeah I think that's a good idea um to get back to the windows I think um I think what we're recommending is that shed dormer be taken away on the front and just I think you have two one on the front and one on the back but if you decide if you want
to keep that I think the windows are in are not compatible these with with the original the whole thing is not compatible there's no dormers in the Yeah but if you had if you had the framing that's the thickness as this would Are you talking about the trim and
casing around the windows that would help so did you hear did you hear that the casing and the trim around the windows on that dormer it oh on top of the garage okay yeah no you you can't see the rendering where's the rendering
on A12 just slide 1.2 it would help move it to the right cuz now they it just look right there okay so you you see how all the other windows have 4 in of white
trim around it that doesn't exist on those two windows in that dormer okay yeah again on the elevation but not on the render oh really is it okay no it's not well I think on Yeah and
the in the one on the bottom straight like if you see like the the width the size of the trim as drawn on the is consistent with how it's drawn right cuz now it just looks the rendering it's not it does not reflect what kind of what what are you drawing there is trim like
like this here where the mouse is like this casings I guess I'm saying at least to the point of yes the casings on the new windows should be consistent with the casing you know on the existence i would agree with that here's the
existing i think that would make an improvement a big improvement chair could I make a comment actually sticking with the windows if if we look at the east elevation of the garage the second floor it's not shown on the renderings but it is in the elevation you have these two
trapezoidal windows that follow the roof line that kind of mirror each other i do feel that will be visible from the street and wanted to call it to the attention of the tree right here what
the the one on the second floor correct the two of them yes in terms of them having the same framing around the windows in terms of them not being rectangles unlike oh all the other windows except for you do have one window in the back a very small window of the original structure that comes to
a peak right but it doesn't have this 45° slant on one side i I would agree with that i'd rather see you make that center window wider and just get rid of those you know if you're talking about mon light that you might
lose okay from these but that 45 that whatever it is right it's inconsistent with the other ones detail that probably doesn't fit this house that Yeah that makes sense and then the detail under the Oh there
are no rats tails under here are there why did I Never mind i was just I thought I thought that's what you were trying to I the architect was trying to replicate with the uh with whatever it was over the the garage door yeah see I
would just extend that roof of on the garage out to that same distance and get rid of that one um you're good so you're saying basically extend this extend that keep to there yeah right and then do your bracket you could do some brackets
up higher and if you could lift the garage doors and whatever yeah be a big do some trim work all right any other comments these are going to go to uh the zoning board no these are just recommendations recommendations yes we have no real power but we hope you do
they listen to well I mean I agree that it's just a prominent house and it's not in either of our intentions to do something egregious or to any we can see that yeah so I think that some of the small details um make a lot of sense i
in contrast to the previous submission which was all stuckco junk all right thank you very much thanks an awful lot good luck okay all right thank you when does this go to the zoting board um we're aiming for April 2nd right oh
you get your notice close all right good luck good luck thank you thanks so much have a good night thank you good night i am i'm sorry just one minute i I can't wait i
Good luck okay so we are on to the last uh subject and that was a very brief discussion of um uh the uh uh affordable
housing in Monontlair uh uh Janice and Zanab did a really wonderful presentation last week it's online i sent everybody the website that you could click on and listen to it and it
the implications for this uh uh uh need to to you know to build more housing in not only our township but all around the state and in the country um will have impact upon preservation and basically it's the
idea of uh reinvestigating uh the R1 districts which are single family housing and also the RORO district RORO district which is the the larger estate section the big houses on
the hill with the property around it so I think that as the historic preservation commission um we should have a robust dialogue to see to discuss and understand what the changes will
bring to this township and really why we're here you know like why we're looking at at preservation and why we do our recommendations and do all this work so I'm just I just think it's important that uh people know about this and um
and perhaps we can formulate an opinion to send it then on to the uh council and the and the mayor and the council because they will certainly have to deal with this uh in the very near future and when is when is the affordable housing
when when is your does it have to go to the state is that in June yeah it's the end of June okay so I thought if we if we were able to if I'm asking everyone to really look at this information look at this um report this study that came
out from uh the planning school at Rutgers University and um just to get some ideas of what you think and how it's going to impact the work that we do here do you have any questions because an did
a group they did a they did a fabulous ju just some I should I should look at what you did before I start asking questions so let me do that well the other thing I thought is I know that Janice did a presentation for the planning board correct u would that it
was the same presentation well do you think she would be willing to we could ask her I don't know what our agenda is going to be next month but uh maybe it would be it would be beneficial for us to ask her if she could do that for we could put it in the beginning of the meeting i can ask her okay okay and that
would be great because it was a very well uh uh you know presentation really uh good scope to it okay all right with that we have a motion to adjurnn i move to adjourn i second it all in favor i
thank you thank you